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View Full Version : GUILTY MI - Florence Unger, 37, found dead, husband charged, 24 Oct 2003





Doyle
10-30-2003, 06:43 AM
Oakland woman's death puzzles police
http://www.detnews.com/2003/oakland/0310/29/c04-310394.htm

Husband a suspect in death at resort
http://www.freep.com/news/locoak/unger29_20031029.htm

nanandjim
10-30-2003, 12:03 PM
Amazing...family and friends don't know what to think...a split camp on if he is guilty or not. Wake up, people...What a coincidence...she files for divorce...he insists on the getaway...she ends up dead...Quite an amazing coincidence...Wonder how much life insurance was on her....

bluehawaii25
10-30-2003, 12:48 PM
Husband sure sounds suspicious to me. Glad they got the kids away from him if he is using drugs and is in rehab. Not a good environment for them. I, too, wonder how much life insurance she has?

Doyle
11-01-2003, 08:53 AM
Fall onto slab killed woman, police say
Findings could go to prosecutor by Monday
http://www.freep.com/news/locoak/unger31_20031031.htm

Taximom
01-15-2006, 03:21 AM
Oakland woman's death puzzles police
http://www.detnews.com/2003/oakland/0310/29/c04-310394.htm

Husband a suspect in death at resort
http://www.freep.com/news/locoak/unger29_20031029.htm
Update:
http://www.record-eagle.com/2005/dec/11unger.htm

(excerpt)
Prosecutors maintain Unger and his wife were in the midst of a bitter divorce and Unger pushed her from the boathouse deck and moved her body into the water.

mssheila
01-15-2006, 12:44 PM
If this divorce was so bitter, why on earth would she go away with him? I dont understand that! I'm not blaming her for her own death in any way, there's no excuse for that, I just dont see why she'd go anywhere with him if the divorce was so bitter.:doh:

NoraLee
04-26-2006, 05:14 PM
I'm surprised this isn't being discussed. It's been on the Detroit local news and in local newspapers since it happened. Anyone have thoughts on the case?
This is a link to the Traverse City, MI, newspaper.
http://www.record-eagle.com/2006/apr/15unger.htm

kato
04-27-2006, 08:16 AM
I'm surprised this isn't being discussed. It's been on the Detroit local news and in local newspapers since it happened. Anyone have thoughts on the case?
This is a link to the Traverse City, MI, newspaper.
http://www.record-eagle.com/2006/apr/15unger.htm

I am interested in this case and I hope some of the news shows will cover it.

ljwf22
04-27-2006, 11:59 AM
Here is a Detroit Free Press story:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060426/NEWS05/604260406

The Ungers lived in Huntington Woods, a suburb of Detroit.

NoraLee
04-28-2006, 10:37 AM
From WXYZ website:

http://www.detnow.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_4654713,00.html

NoraLee
05-03-2006, 05:23 PM
From the WXYZ Detroit website earlier today:
http://www1.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_4669859,00.html
From the Traverse City paper today:
http://www.record-eagle.com/2006/apr/29unger.htm

NoraLee
05-03-2006, 06:51 PM
From the Detroit Free Press:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060503/NEWS11/60503008

I'm thinking Unger is guilty. Florence's parents are sure of it. Too bad Florence trusted Mark Unger enough to go on the vacation but since the children were with them, I doubt she had any reason to feel afraid.

NoraLee
05-05-2006, 08:36 AM
Happy Cinco De Mayo!

From today's Detroit Free Press:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/NEWS06/605050452

kato
05-05-2006, 09:48 AM
Happy Cinco De Mayo!

From today's Detroit Free Press:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/NEWS06/605050452

Thanks for the update.

NoraLee
05-06-2006, 09:44 AM
From today's Detroit Free Press:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060506/NEWS06/605060404

Still looks guilty. Kind of surprising to me that he was free for so long.

NoraLee
05-06-2006, 10:15 AM
From Traverse City newspaper:

http://www.record-eagle.com/2006/may/06unger.htm

NoraLee
05-07-2006, 10:32 AM
Today's Detroit Free Press:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060507/NEWS03/605070755

NoraLee
05-09-2006, 03:44 PM
This is a link to the Traverse City Record Eagle before the preliminary trial in 2004:

http://www.record-eagle.com/2004/jul/07unger.htm

There is a paragraph that says:
>> Another friend, Gary Scholnick, said he had lunch with Florence Unger a day before her death and she told him she was headed north with her husband on the advice of her divorce attorney, who said it was important for the couple's children and for the divorce proceedings.<<

Why would an attorney advise his client to take a trip with a hostile almost-ex-husband?

Bobbisangel
05-10-2006, 03:25 AM
I've never heard of a divorce attorney telling anyone to take a vacation with their soon to be ex-husband. How would that help the kids if the dad was a real creep? That doesn't make any sense.

Anyone know how old the kids are? I wonder what they were doing when dad murdered mom? Is the husband trying to say that the wife just fell off the dock or something?

NoraLee
05-10-2006, 03:31 PM
Max is 12 and Tyler is 9. From what I remember, Florence & Mark were on the dock and Mark said he went to check on the children. Seems he never returned to the dock, though, and realized in the morning that Florence was missing and called someone else to go look for her. Why wouldn't he go himself? And why didn't he return to the dock that night? Why would she stay out there?

NoraLee
05-10-2006, 03:33 PM
Defense theory is that the dock railing was in need of repair and the owner acknowledged this as true. Unger wasn't even in jail until earlier this year.

NoraLee
05-11-2006, 05:22 PM
From WXYZ website today:



http://www1.wxyz.com/wxyz/images/spacers/spacer.gifhttp://www1.wxyz.com/wxyz/images/spacers/spacer.gifhttp://mas.scripps.com/WXYZ/2006/05/11/0605110802_d.jpg (javascript:popup('http://mas.scripps.com/WXYZ/2006/05/11/0605110802_e.jpg',350,450))
http://www1.wxyz.com/wxyz/images/spacers/spacer.gif
Florence Unger's brother, Peter Stern, is seen here on the stand Wednesday.
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Unger Murder Trial Underway (http://www1.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_4654713,00.html)Business Owners Hope to Benefit from Unger Trial (http://www1.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_4669859,00.html)

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Family and Friends Take the Stand in Unger Trial

By Glenn Zimmerman
Web produced by Christine Lasek
May 11, 2006

Family members and friends took the stand Wednesday in the murder trial of Mark Unger, the local man on trial on northern Michigan for the death of his wife Florence.

Florence Unger’s brother, Peter Stern, took the stand. He told the court, "I didn’t want to look at the body. I didn’t want that to be the last thing I have in mind."

Some of Florence’s friends did, as well. One explained, "Florence said to me that she was repulsed by Mark."

Then a sheriff’s deputy testified that she interviewed Mark Unger’s oldest child. The words of the son seemed to support Unger’s claim, that after spending some time outside with his wife, Unger came back into the cottage to check on the kids.

Unger’s attorney Robert Harrison read some of the deputy’s report, in which it said, "He was pretty much asleep when dad returned and kissed him, and he was sure it was his dad because he felt the whiskers."

NoraLee
05-12-2006, 08:22 AM
On Channel 7 [Detroit] news last night -- reported that Unger hasn't had direct contact with his children for over 2 years but he can write them letters. They can't or don't write back. The boys live with the maternal grandparents. Mark Unger will not be allowed to attend his son's Bar Mitzvah which will take place in a few weeks.

NoraLee
05-14-2006, 10:33 AM
Detroit News link from yesterday, 5-13-06:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060513/METRO/605130350&SearchID=73244537694570

Dr. Stephen Cohle, pathologist and chief medical examiner in Kent County, said members of the current prosecution team -- Michigan Assistant Attorney General Donna Pendergast, former assistant Oakland County prosecuting attorney Mark Bilkovic and Michigan State Police Sgt. Walter Armstrong, along with Oakland County Medical Examiner Ljubisa Dragovic -- visited his office to discuss Cohle's findings and Dragovic's opinion that the death was a direct result of drowning.

"Specifically, I recall he (Dragovic) wanted to discuss his belief that Ms. Unger died from drowning that there was not enough swelling of the brain to cause her death," said Cohle, who ruled the cause of death as cranial cerebral trauma.

"I disagree, but I can't rule out that drowning was a contributing factor in her death."

In his opening statement, defense attorney Robert S. Harrison characterized the Grand Rapids trip as a "caravan" of law enforcement designed to influence Cohle. But Cohle stressed he was never pressured by anyone to change his findings. He also testified that pathologists often disagree.

Cohle said while he was not convinced that Florence Unger's death was a drowning, he classified the death as a homicide because he could not resolve how her body was eventually found in Lower Herring Lake.

NoraLee
05-18-2006, 12:27 PM
From today's Traverse City Record-Eagle story by Patrick Sullivan

http://www.record-eagle.com/2006/may/18unger.htm
BEULAH — Well-known medical examiner Dr. L.J. Dragovic caused a stir in the courtroom even before he took the stand in Mark Unger's trial on a charge of first-degree murder.

Nineteenth Circuit Court Judge James Batzer refused to allow defense attorneys to question the Oakland County medical examiner about an opinion from an Arizona court where Dragovic was found unqualified to testify as an expert witness.

Unger's trial stretched into its fourth week Wednesday with evidence from Dragovic, testimony that is critical to the prosecution's theory that Mark Unger pushed his wife, 37-year-old Florence Unger, from a boathouse deck and later moved her into Lower Herring Lake to drown. Unger, 45, maintains his innocence.

NoraLee
05-26-2006, 08:32 AM
Link to today's Detroit Free Press:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060526/NEWS03/605260406
Excerpt concerning insurance:
State prosecutors also recalled to the stand an insurance agent who also had testified last week in an apparent attempt to suggest that Mark Unger would gain financially if he killed his wife.

But defense attorneys attempted to counter that by showing that the life insurance policies that the couple held were purchased at least six years before Florence Unger's death, and questioned the relevance of bringing this up.

After his wife's death, Unger relinquished his rights as the beneficiary of one of the two life insurance policies that his wife had totaling $750,000, said his attorney, Robert Harrison.

Gary Scholnick, a longtime friend of the couple, was called by special Assistant Attorney General Mark Bilkovic.

Scholnick told jurors that there were two life insurance policies on Florence Unger and detailed their history. He said they were purchased in 1996 and 1997.

He also testified that he spoke to Unger shortly after the death, and he did not seem to realize -- or know -- that there was more than one policy on his wife.

"I think he was stunned," Scholnick said.

Testimony is expected to continue today.



Did Nancy Grace do a segment on the trial this week?

NoraLee
05-26-2006, 06:17 PM
Today's Detroit Free Press:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060526/NEWS99/60526005
Prosecution's last witnesses expected today


By FRANK WITSIL

FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER



BEULAH -- Tesha Hankes, Florence Unger's hairdresser for ten years, testified Friday in Benzie County Circuit Court that the day after her client's body was found floating in Lower Herring Lake, she had a converstion with Mark Unger.

Unger, 45, of Huntington Woods, is on trial in Benzie County Circuit Court for killing Florence Unger, his wife.

Hankes, works at Palazzolo Hair Salon in Royal Oak, said in court that she had gotten word through a friend on Oct. 25, 2003, the day Florence Unger's body was found, that Unger had died, but did not believe it.

So the next day, she said, he called Florence Unger's cell phone to find out if this was true.

"Is Flo there?" she recalls asking after she dialed.

Hankes said Mark Unger answered the phone.

"He said, 'who is this?' " Hankes said.

State prosecutors have accused Mark Unger of killing his wife by pushing or kicking her off a 12-foot high wooden deck at Watervale, where they were staying for the weekend with their two children in a rented cottage. Florence Unger hit her head on a concrete slab, and Mark Unger then placed her in the nearby lake face down where she drowned, prosecutors say.

Unger is charged with first-degree murder, and if convicted faces a sentence of life imprisonment.

Just weeks before Florence Unger's death, Hankes said, Florence Unger seemed to be acting nervous. Hankes sad that Florence Unger had confided to her that she was divorcing her husband, and when Hankes had asked her if she was afraid, she shrugged her shoulders, "like she didn't know," Hankes said.

Hankes said that when she called Florence Unger's cell phone, Mark Unger started crying, and Hankes said she told him, "So it's true."

NoraLee
05-27-2006, 09:41 AM
Detroit News -- May 27, 2006
Article about Unger's upscale lifestyle

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060527/METRO/605270357 (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060527/METRO/605270357)
BEULAH -- As prosecutors rested their case on Friday, local court-watchers admitted that the upscale suburban lifestyle that Mark and Florence Unger lived before her death might not exactly resonate with northern Michigan jurors who often work two jobs just to get by -- regardless of their eventual verdict.

"People up here take care of each other and often work seasonal jobs, often two jobs, to pay the bills," said Jackie McLaughlin, a retired Lansing school teacher who lives in nearby Frankfort and regularly monitors district and circuit court. "Their spouses might also work two jobs It's pretty hard for some of us to understand how anyone would have difficulty living on $10,000 a month."

Mark Unger, 45, is on trial for first-degree murder in the October 2003 death of his wife, Florence, 37, who was found floating face down in Lower Herring Lake at a northern Michigan resort. Prosecutors believe Florence Unger either fell or was pushed from a 12-foot high boathouse deck, and landed on a concrete slab, causing massive head injuries. They contend Mark Unger then dragged her into the lake to make the death look accidental. The couple was in the midst of a contentious divorce.

McLaughlin admits she can't say what's on jurors' minds, but she can speculate they aren't too sympathetic to the Unger's marital problems. The couple, both mortgage bankers, lived in a home in an upscale Detroit suburb, enjoyed memberships in an exclusive Beverly Hills racquet club, private trainers, family vacations at the Inn of Watervale resort and winter ski trips.

Besides a marriage that had failed, and a two-year affair Florence Unger was having with a neighbor, they also have heard of her shopping habits and his gambling and drug addictions -- all of which paints a picture that some Benzie County residents can't relate to in their own lives.

"It's pretty hard for some of us to understand how anyone would have difficulty living on $10,000 a month," McLaughlin said, referring to Mark Unger's disability insurance he collected because of his addiction to gambling and drugs.

"People up here who have substance abuse problems can't even afford to go into a rehab program," McLaughlin said.

NoraLee
05-28-2006, 09:38 AM
Detroit News Story May 26 link about how trial is dividing the families. Picture of the Unger family. Twelve-year-old son, Max's bar mitzvah was Friday night.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060526/METRO02/605260386&SearchID=73245934562954

NoraLee
05-31-2006, 12:40 PM
Detroit News article -- May 31, 2006

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060531/UPDATE/605310436&SearchID=73246245435784
Wednesday, May 31, 2006



Judge denies request by Unger's lawyer to dismiss case
mike martindale / The Detroit News

BEULAH -- A Benzie Circuit Court judge today denied a defense attorney's request to dismiss a case involving a Huntington Woods man charged with his wife's Oct. 2003 death at a northern Michigan lakeside resort.

Mark Unger, 45, is charged with the death of his wife, Florence, at the Inn of Watervale resort, about 10 miles south of Frankfort. The prosecution has presented several dozen witnesses to support its contention that the woman was killed during an argument over a pending divorce.

After the jury was excused from the courtroom, attorney Robert S. Harrison requested a directed verdict from Judge James M. Batzer in the case. In Harrison's view, after several weeks of testimony, the prosecution had failed to prove the first-degree murder charge in the trial which began April 26 -- including why anyone would have placed Florence Unger's body in Lower Herring Lake.

While noting the case against Unger is circumstantial, Batzer said there has been sufficient evidence presented for the jury to consider along with whatever is still to be presented by the defense. Batzer cited marital discord, the pending divorce, the woman's fear of the dark, and Unger's behavior after the death, all as elements in the prosecutor's case.

"This is a circumstantial evidence case," Batzer said. "The prosecution seeks to convict the defendant not with an eyewitness to the death but through a long process of friends, acquaintances of the deceased and the defendant testifying to the marital discord, the deceased's unhappiness in the marriage, her determination to end the marriage through the divorce process and her determination to stick by her children," Batzer said. "...The court's response to why would someone place someone in the water, certainly one evidence would be to prevent her possible recovery.

"On balance, the court has to say that taking all evidence, in the light most favorable to the prosecution and 12 reasonable jurors. … ," said Batzer. "…Motion for a directed verdict is denied."

NoraLee
06-01-2006, 07:02 PM
Link to Detroit News story -- June 1, 2006 -- has picture of railing reproduction that was brought into court today.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060601/METRO02/606010336


Unger defense experts cite unstable deck railing

Mike Martindale / The Detroit News

BEULAH -- A construction materials expert testified Wednesday that a wooden railing around a boathouse deck where a Huntington Woods woman died in October 2003 was rotting, violated state building code and would not have supported the weight of anyone leaning against it.
Those revelations came as defense attorneys began to present their side in the Mark Unger murder trial by calling experts to discuss how Florence Unger might have died by accident, rather than at her husband's hands.

Mark Unger, 45, is on trial in Benzie Circuit Court for first-degree murder in the death of his wife, Florence, 37, who was found floating face-down in Lower Herring Lake, about 10 miles south of Frankfort.

Investigators believe the Ungers argued about a pending divorce on a boathouse deck and she was either pushed, kicked or fell 12 feet to a concrete surface, suffering a fractured skull and hip.

Investigators believe Unger then dragged her, unconscious, into the lake, where she drowned.

But Unger's defense attorneys contend the woman fell entirely on her own, possibly after slipping or falling against a rotting 26 -inch-high wooden railing while Unger was asleep in a nearby cottage with their two sons.

John Zarzecki, a construction materials specialist from Plymouth, told the Benzie Circuit Court jury the railing he examined six months later was too short to meet code and wasn't sound.

"The Michigan building code for the last 20 years has required a 36-inch height (for a deck railing)," testified Zarzecki, who was asked if the smaller structure would have prevented someone from falling off.

"In my opinion, no," said Zarzecki.

NoraLee
06-01-2006, 10:02 PM
June 1, 2006 -- Detroit Free Press
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060601/NEWS99/60601009
Florence Unger's death 'indeterminate,' doctor says

By FRANK WITSIL

FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER



BEULAH -- Contradicting the conclusions of another forensic pathologist who testified earlier in the Mark Unger murder trial , Wayne County's medical examiner said Thursday that it can't be determined whether Florence Unger was killed -- or whether her death was an accident.

"I would classify it as indeterminate," said Dr. Carl Schmidt.

Schmidt, who was called to testify by the defense, said that there is not enough information to assess whether Florence Unger fell from the 12-foot high deck, or was pushed.

Schmidt said her injuries indicate the 37-year-old Huntington Woods woman died from a "blow to the right side of the head," which caused the skull to fracture; not from drowning, which was the conclusion of Oakland County Medical Examiner Dr. L.J. Dragovic. Schmidt said there are no marks on her head that indicate she was dragged, or moved.

Schmidt said that Unger's pelvis also was broken, probably a result of hitting a concrete slab.

NoraLee
06-02-2006, 12:41 PM
Link to Detroit News article -- June 2, 2006:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060602/METRO/606020384&SearchID=73246445322201

Wayne County [Detroit] Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. Carl Schmidt, "split from three other experts' opinions" saying the death of Florence Unger was not a homicide.

Later in article:
>>In another development, Benzie Circuit Judge James Batzer held off ruling on whether jurors may hear a physics professor or see five computer-animated scenarios he created that could illustrate ways Florence Unger may have died accidentally.
A 90-minute hearing on the matter was held Thursday and is expected to continue Wednesday, when Batzer is expected to make a ruling.<<

NoraLee
06-02-2006, 04:38 PM
Detroit Free Press -- June 2, 2006 update

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/frontpage
By FRANK WITSIL
FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER


In a stunning reversal Friday, Mark Unger's attorney told the judge that he had planned to call his client's 12-year-old son to the stand -- but would not.

Robert Harrison said Unger, who is on trial and charged with killing his wife, told him that he had concerns for the welfare of his son, Max, and instructed his lawyer not to compel the boy to testify.

"I will not be calling him," Harrison said in court, as the boy waited behind closed doors in the Benzie County's Prosecutor's office.

Harrison said the possibility of testifying has been difficult on the child.

Had Max Unger, who lives in Huntington Woods with his grandparents, been compelled to take the witness stand in Benzie County Circuit Court, it might have forced him to choose between his parents, possibly adding to his trauma, some experts say.
-----
The boy gave a statement to police the day his mother's body was found. An attorney read it in court earlier in the trial.

Max Unger's guardian ad litem, Bill Lansat, said that he had objected to the child testifying, saying that, "psychologically, it is damaging to him."

Max Unger was brought to the courthouse Friday at about 9 a.m., and questioned by the defense and prosecution. He brought with him a book, and left quietly.

The trial continues today before Judge James Batzer.

NoraLee
06-02-2006, 10:55 PM
Detroit News update -- Friday, June 2, 2006

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060602/UPDATE/606020438

Witnesses say Flo Unger didn't fear dark

Mike Martindale / The Detroit News

BEULAH -- Defense attorneys trying to chip away at the prosecution's circumstantial case presented witnesses Friday who testified that Mark Unger's odd behavior after his wife's death may have been prompted by the advice of friends, and that Florence Unger did not have a fear of the dark.

These were among the final images defense attorneys hoped to leave jurors with Friday in the first-degree murder trial of Mark Unger, 45, who is accused of killing his wife, Florence, at the Inn of Watervale, a northern Michigan lakeside resort about 10 miles south of Frankfort.

--------------
Contrary to earlier testimony of several of Florence Unger's friends and relatives, and friend and a relative both said Friday that Florence never exhibited a fear of the dark. The defense is countering prosecution witnesses -- including the woman's father and brother -- who have testified it would have been very unusual for her to sit out on a boathouse deck at night alone while her husband checked on their sons, Max and Tyler, at a nearby cottage.

Marci Zussman, called to the witness stand by defense attorney Robert S. Harrison, said in a week she spent at Watervale in July 2002 she frequently found Florence Unger sitting on the boathouse deck, alone, between 10 and 11 p.m. "looking at the stars."

Lyle Wolberg, who is Mark Unger's nephew, also told the Benzie Circuit Court jury how he and two friends drove up to Watervale after Florence's body was found.

Wolberg testified that some of Unger's behavior, which has been described as odd by friends, police and others during the trial, may have resulted from advice he supplied his uncle. In earlier testimony police have told how Unger was uncooperative and attempted to leave the area with his sons while his wife was still in the water.

NoraLee
06-03-2006, 09:21 AM
Link to Detroit Free Press article, June 3, 2006 --

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060603/NEWS06/606030384

Article talks about decision to not have son Max Unger testify. Was Mark Unger thinking of his son's well-being or himself?
---------------

Link to Detroit News article, June 3, 2006, about Mark Unger being advised by his attorney not to talk.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060603/METRO/606030349&SearchID=73246533825560

NoraLee
06-06-2006, 11:25 AM
Here's a link to photos of the Mark Unger trial on Yahoo:

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/sm/events/us/051106markunger/p:1

NoraLee
06-07-2006, 11:16 AM
Detroit News link, June 7, 2006:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060607/UPDATE/606070439

Judge hears from animation expert without jury present at Unger murder trial

MIKE MARTINDALE / The Detroit News

BEULAH -- Prosecutors in the Mark Unger murder trial continue to quiz a retired professor about his computer animated graphics, which defense attorneys believe will help show a Benzie Circuit Court jury that an accident, not murder, could have caused the death of a Huntington Woods woman in October 2003.

Defense attorneys for Mark Unger, 45, contracted Dr. Igor Paul, a retired bio-mechanical engineering professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, to review the October 25, 2003 death of Unger's wife, Florence.

Paul produced a computer-animated film that demonstrates several possible scenarios of how physics might explain an accidental fall over the railing of a boathouse deck, in contrast to the prosecution theory that Mark Unger somehow caused Florence Unger to fall.

EDITED BY DP DUE TO COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT. PLEASE SEE LINK FOR THE REST OF THE ARTICLE

NoraLee
06-07-2006, 02:49 PM
Detroit Free Press link, June 7, 2006

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060607/NEWS11/60607014&SearchID=73246953273672

More from the Detroit News -- June 7, 2006 -- on the computer animations

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060607/UPDATE/606070444

NoraLee
06-08-2006, 09:19 AM
Link to Detroit News article -- June 8, 2006
Ungers lawyers hope to prove deck rail was deteriorating:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060608/METRO/606080318&SearchID=73247033680991

Links to Detroit Free Press articles -- June 8, 2006

Expert Shows Accident Possibilities:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060608/NEWS06/606080421&SearchID=73247033008094


Forensic testing on rail at issue in Unger trial:

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060608/NEWS06/606080422&SearchID=73247033159210 (http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060608/NEWS06/606080422&SearchID=73247033159210)

State denies claim it's hiding results from the defense

NoraLee
06-08-2006, 04:26 PM
Link to Detroit Free Press about Unger defense resting case:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060608/NEWS11/60608008

Link to Detroit News -- June 8, 2006:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060608/UPDATE/606080451

Thursday, June 08, 2006



Defense rests without Unger taking stand

mike martindale / The Detroit News





BEULAH -- The defense rested its case today in a six-week murder trial without calling the defendant, Mark Unger, to the witness stand.

Unger, 45, of Huntington Woods, is on trial for first-degree murder in the October 25, 2003 death of his wife, Florence, 37, whom investigators believe was pushed or kicked off a boathouse deck during an argument over their pending divorce. It has been alleged that Unger then dragged her unconscious body to Lower Herring Lake, where she was found floating face down the next morning.

Unger has said he was on the deck on the night of Oct. 24 with his wife, but told police he left to tuck their two sons into bed at a nearby cottage. He told police that when he returned to the deck his wife was gone and he went back to their cottage where he fell asleep.

While lacking direct evidence -- such as an eyewitness or incriminating statement from Unger -- the prosecution presented a complex circumstantial case that relied heavily on forensic experts, physical evidence and witness testimony about both the Ungers.

Bobbisangel
06-09-2006, 02:18 AM
This is a link to the Traverse City Record Eagle before the preliminary trial in 2004:

http://www.record-eagle.com/2004/jul/07unger.htm

There is a paragraph that says:
>> Another friend, Gary Scholnick, said he had lunch with Florence Unger a day before her death and she told him she was headed north with her husband on the advice of her divorce attorney, who said it was important for the couple's children and for the divorce proceedings.<<

Why would an attorney advise his client to take a trip with a hostile almost-ex-husband?



Nancy Grace covered this story tonight. I don't think that anyone can understand why in the world her divorce attorney recommended her going off with him like that. That is insane to me. I wonder how that attorney feels now. It was also said that Florence had wanted a divorce for a long time. She had been having an affair with a friend of theirs who was also a neighbor. I guess he had taken the stand at some point. That was no doubt a bone of contention between Florence and her husband. Beings the divorce was in the works there is no reason on earth why they should have spent any time together like that.

It sounds to me that this husband...in his mind...had every reason to want to get rid of his wife. The affair added insult to injury as the man was not only a neighbor but a friend of his. There were two children who would have been affected by a divorce and there was also a quarter million life insurance policy on Florence.

If she had fallen through the rail and onto the cement below then how did she get into the water? They say that it was the fall that killed her as her face was crushed among other things. How could she have gotten to the water if the fall killed her? How could she have gotten to the water anyway with the exception of him picking her up or dragging her and throwing her in.

I also wonder why his children haven't lived with him since the death of their mother? I wonder if the older child thinks his dad is guilty? Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is...he says that he went up to the cabin to tuck the kids into bed. Is he saying that the kids were left alone while him and his wife were quite a ways away from the cabin? They weren't that old at the time and it was dark out. Why wouldn't they have waited until the kids were asleep to go sit on the deck or whatever it was?

I think he killed her because he didn't want a divorce and because of the affair she had. I hope he is found guilty and doesn't get away with murder. Florence was such a beautiful woman in the pictures that I have seen. I'm not sure what she ever saw in her husband!

NoraLee
06-09-2006, 09:29 AM
Detroit News Link -- June 9, 2006

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060609/METRO/606090301

The pictures are interesting -- Unger never looks worried [to me].

Here's the first paragraph of the story by Mike Martindale:
>>BEULAH -- Despite resting his case Thursday, Mark Unger's defense attorney said he will pursue information he believes that has been improperly withheld by officials and could help exonerate his client for his wife's murder.<<

The real killers are out there!!!! Oy.

Detroit Free Press article -- June 9, 2006
"Unger jury is told not to discuss the case."
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060609/NEWS06/606090478&SearchID=73247134030508

CyberLaw
06-09-2006, 03:38 PM
Remember O.J. he vowed to get the person who killed Ron and Nicole......but for some reason it has never materialized.

Just "smoke and mirrors" of a defense attorney who does not have a strong case.

I have no doubt that Flo's body just did not happen to find its way into the water.

Mark pushed her, moved the body for a)so no one would be able to determine that from her position and the condition of the rail that he pushed her or b)that he wanted to ensure that she was dead, so he moved her to the water, so if she was still breathing, she would not be.

Please don't blame defence attorney's for the conduct of Mark. Please again, do not expect attorney to have a crystal ball into what Mark may or may not have done. It is not the fault of the attorney, for advising and looking out for the best interest of their clients.

If Flo did not go away that weekend, then it could have been used against her in court, so he was in a catch 22 position. She was "concerned" about going away with Mark, but she was more concerned about her kids and Mark's threat to "take the kids" away.

So in the best interest of the children, now and in the future and in consideration of the "custody" battle, she went away with him for the weekend........

No one has a crystal ball, no one knows what a criminal is thinking, especially a drug addicted, horrible person like Mark......

Put the blame where it lies....Mark Unger........

Bobbisangel
06-10-2006, 02:08 AM
I do blame her attorney for suggesting that she go away with Mark for the weekend. I have never heard of such a thing in my life and I know a lot of people who are divorced. When you reach the stage of filing for a divorce that is the time to let your attorneys handle everything. A lot of people have a battle over the kids. You don't go away for the weekend to try and smooth things out. When you go away for the weekend that only gives the husband hope. It's like a little honeymoon and it gives them the hope that maybe things can be worked out. It's wrong and it just makes matters worse as witnessed by what happened on this little honeymoon. We tend to listen to the advice of our attorney. Most attorney's tell you that they will handle everything. If a woman is afraid of her husband it can even be setup to have him pick the children up at someone elses house or even the police department. It was bizzare for the attorney to tell Flo to go away for the weekend with that creep. That attorney had to have known everything this guy was mixed up in.

I just hope that this guy doesn't walk away from this. I hate to think of him raising those young boys after he murdered their mother.

I think the Flo looked so much like the gal on "Crossing Jordan" only Flo was much prettier.

NoraLee
06-10-2006, 10:24 AM
I agree, Bobbi.

Besides Nancy Grace and local Detroit news, have you seen this story talked about anywhere? It would have been an interesting trial to see on CourtTV.

Being a bit cynical here, but if Florence was 10 years younger, would the story have gotten more coverage? I'm thinking since I am interested in the case, it's just me that thinks that. I know there are a lot of stories throughout the world to be talked about.

At least it is being followed up on -- I hate it when you hear an interesting story [about anything] and you never hear a follow-up.

NoraLee
06-13-2006, 06:20 PM
Trial resumes tomorrow with closing arguments. According to WDIV-tv, the case should go to the jury Friday.

CyberLaw
06-14-2006, 08:22 AM
Man and women divorcing. He wants revenge upon her because of course, she is not leaving him for another man.

His lawyer says: Well if you "leave" the family home, that would and could be used against you as you are "abandoning" the children. Then your "chances" of obtaining custody of the kids would be diminished.

So during the divorce, he stays in the house with the kids........and his soon to be ex wife. They are divorcing, but he is still in the same house, specifically to lead to his goal of "taking the kids away from his wife".

Unless you are a lawyer, you have no, and I mean no idea what the courts will and won't view in light of the conduct of parents. But lawyers do.......that is why they are lawyers......

Trust me, if she did not go away, that would be used in court against her.....no doubt. Every step has to be very carefully calculated to ensure the courts see Flo as a "equal" parents in the eyes of the court. Since Mark was intent on obtaining full custody of the kids, everything Flo did would be open to intense observation. Everything.

Flo may not be seen in a good light if she did not "project" that her kids came before and her "suspicions" that her husband may not be a nice guy.

After all he had not comitted any violent act against her or the kids at this point and the courts may use that facts against her.

When it comes to ensuring your kids are not with a type of husband like this, a whole game plan has to be made, every step, everything has to be carefully analyzed. Planned out......

Unfortunately, Mark knew this from his lawyer, that is probably why he planned the trip, knowing that Flo would have to go, he put her in a catch 22 and he knew it and used this to harm her.......in the guise of a trip for the kids.........

He seems like the kind of guy that would "twist" advice given to him by his lawyer to his own advantage and to harm his wife.

So unless you are a lawyer, practice family law, have years of experience in divorce, custody of children......you may want to second guess the advice of a lawyer, but in the end, no one could "foresee" what Mark had in mind for this trip.

The Lawyers crystal ball was in for repairs that day......

NoraLee
06-14-2006, 09:34 AM
Link to Detroit News AP article -- June 14, 2006
[short summary of trial]
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MI_HUSBAND_CHARGED_MIOL-?SITE=MIDTN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

NoraLee
06-14-2006, 03:00 PM
Detroit Free Press -- June 14, 2006
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060614/NEWS99/60614002

Detroit News -- June 14, 2006
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060614/UPDATE/606140440
Prosecutor recaps Unger case in closing arguments

Mike Martindale / The Detroit News

BEULAH -- A Huntington Woods man on trial for his wife's October 2003 death has told stories that don't add up, was uncooperative with police after her body was found floating face down in a northern Michigan lake and showed a general lack of interest in her death, a prosecutor told a Benzie Circuit Court jury today.

Assistant Michigan Attorney General Donna L. Pendergast made the comments in her closing arguments in the case against Mark Unger, 45, charged with first-degree murder in the death of Florence, 37.

Pendergast recapped the prosecution's version of what investigators believed happened: that the Ungers argued over their pending divorce while on a 12-foot high boathouse deck, she fell and landed on her head, and he attempted to disguise any involvement in the death by staging an accident scene, including dragging her unconscious body into the lake.

The Ungers were getting a divorce and four days earlier had met with their attorneys over child custody and other matters. Unger told investigators he had been with his wife on the deck the night before she was found but went to check on their two sons and fell asleep in a nearby cottage. He said he looked for his wife once but saw she was gone so he went to bed. The next morning he found his wife had never returned.

NoraLee
06-14-2006, 08:37 PM
Detroit News -- June 14, 2006
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060614/UPDATE/606140448
Unger defense tells jury death was tragic accident

Mike Martindale / The Detroit News

BEULAH -- A defense attorney for a Huntington Woods man charged with his wife's 2003 death told a Benzie Circuit Court jury Wednesday that a series of events, including the zeal of police to investigate a perceived crime, ultimately led to his client being charged with first-degree murder.


Attorney Robert S. Harrison's client, Mark Unger, 45, is on trial regarding his wife's Oct. 25, 2003 death at a northern Michigan lakeside resort. Harrison is to conclude his closing on Thursday.

A jury heard closing arguments from both the prosecution and defense attorneys on Wednesday in preparation for deciding Unger's innocence or guilt in the death of Florence Unger, 37. She was found floating face down in Lower Herring Lake at the Inn of Watervale resort, about 10 miles south of Frankfort.

Harrison has maintained Florence Unger's death was a tragic accident that happened without any involvement by his client. Harrison said police investigators were too busy trying to prove a criminal case involving either homicide or suicide based on mistakes or misunderstandings made by a police dispatcher and Maggie Duncan, a Watervale cottage owner who found the body and called police.

"Her mistake -- that a woman may have been suicidal -- sent in motion a series of mistakes that snowballed against Mark Unger," said Harrison. "They (investigators) got there and said 'Baloney, no one commits suicide like that.' Even if it is a death trap out there."

Bobbisangel
06-15-2006, 05:49 AM
I agree, Bobbi.

Besides Nancy Grace and local Detroit news, have you seen this story talked about anywhere? It would have been an interesting trial to see on CourtTV.

Being a bit cynical here, but if Florence was 10 years younger, would the story have gotten more coverage? I'm thinking since I am interested in the case, it's just me that thinks that. I know there are a lot of stories throughout the world to be talked about.

At least it is being followed up on -- I hate it when you hear an interesting story [about anything] and you never hear a follow-up.



No, Nancy's show is the only one that I've heard anything about this case on and I usually watch Nancy, Dan Abrams, Rita Cosby, and Greta V.S. I hadn't thought about it before but the media does tend to focus on the younger generation. This would have been a good trial for CTV to have followed.
I think Susan Polk's trial would have been another one for CTV. Instead half of the time they show trials that they have already covered. Makes me want to scream.

Bobbisangel
06-15-2006, 06:04 AM
Man and women divorcing. He wants revenge upon her because of course, she is not leaving him for another man.

His lawyer says: Well if you "leave" the family home, that would and could be used against you as you are "abandoning" the children. Then your "chances" of obtaining custody of the kids would be diminished.

So during the divorce, he stays in the house with the kids........and his soon to be ex wife. They are divorcing, but he is still in the same house, specifically to lead to his goal of "taking the kids away from his wife".

Unless you are a lawyer, you have no, and I mean no idea what the courts will and won't view in light of the conduct of parents. But lawyers do.......that is why they are lawyers......

Trust me, if she did not go away, that would be used in court against her.....no doubt. Every step has to be very carefully calculated to ensure the courts see Flo as a "equal" parents in the eyes of the court. Since Mark was intent on obtaining full custody of the kids, everything Flo did would be open to intense observation. Everything.

Flo may not be seen in a good light if she did not "project" that her kids came before and her "suspicions" that her husband may not be a nice guy.

After all he had not comitted any violent act against her or the kids at this point and the courts may use that facts against her.

When it comes to ensuring your kids are not with a type of husband like this, a whole game plan has to be made, every step, everything has to be carefully analyzed. Planned out......

Unfortunately, Mark knew this from his lawyer, that is probably why he planned the trip, knowing that Flo would have to go, he put her in a catch 22 and he knew it and used this to harm her.......in the guise of a trip for the kids.........

He seems like the kind of guy that would "twist" advice given to him by his lawyer to his own advantage and to harm his wife.

So unless you are a lawyer, practice family law, have years of experience in divorce, custody of children......you may want to second guess the advice of a lawyer, but in the end, no one could "foresee" what Mark had in mind for this trip.

The Lawyers crystal ball was in for repairs that day......



Was Flo leaving her husband for another man? I didn't hear that. I knew that she had had an affair with the neighbor but that was it. Were Flo and Unger still living in the same house? If they had been living in the same house why the need to go away together with the children? They could have just talked at home.

Because Flo followed her attorney's advice so as to not lose her children to Unger...she is now dead...the boys have no mother and they probably won't have a father either. Unger will probably spend years in prison...I hope. That was a big mistake. Sometimes common sense has to reign. Especially when the husband is into some pretty heavy drugs. It's so sad because she didn't want to go. If she hadn't listened to her attorney she would be alive today.

When things are volitile in a marriage I wouldn't take the risk of going away for the weekend with someone that I wanted away from. I wouldn't live in the same house with my husband either. Maybe things work differently in different states but I have never heard of such a thing and I know couples just like this couple who fought over their children and things got real ugly.
Never were they told to go away together for the weekend and talk things over....for the children's sake.

NoraLee
06-15-2006, 12:59 PM
Detroit News article -- June 15, 2006

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060615/UPDATE/606150462

Defense rips into prosecution murder case against Mark Unger

mike martindale / The Detroit News


BEULAH -- A defense attorney for a Huntington Woods man charged with the 2003 murder of his wife at a northern Michigan resort ripped into the prosecution's circumstantial case today.

Mark Unger, 45, is charged with first-degree murder in the October 25, 2003 death of his wife, Florence, 37, found floating face down in Lower Herring Lake at the Inn of Watervale resort, 10 miles south of Frankfort.

Investigators believe the Ungers, who were in the midst of a divorce, had an argument and that she was pushed or fell off a boathouse deck. Prosecutors contend that Unger put her unconscious body into the lake where it was found the following morning.

In closing remarks today, defense attorney Robert S. Harrison noted how on the night before the body was found, the Ungers were sitting on the boathouse deck and introduced themselves to a stranger, Fred Oeflein, who lived on the lake. Oeflein, had earlier told the jury how he met the couple and Florence told him she could never boat across the lake at night because she was afraid of the dark.

"You would have to be stupid or nuts to try and kill your wife at that moment," said Harrison. "You would have to be a fool to tell police that Florence told you to check on the kids while she waited on the deck.

NoraLee
06-15-2006, 01:01 PM
Detroit Free Press -- June 15, 2006
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060615/NEWS11/60615004

State has "no real evidence'' Unger's lawyer says

Defense continue closing arguments in murder trial

June 15, 2006


By FRANK WITSIL

FREE PRESS STAFF WRITER



BEULAH -- In his closing argument Thursday, defense attorney Robert Harrison told the jury that the prosecution has no "real evidence" to prove its case, and it defies common sense for Mark Unger to be on the deck at the Watervale resort with his wife, introduce himself to a stranger and then commit a murder.

"You'd have to be stupid or nuts to kill your wife at that moment," Harrison said.

Unger, 45, of Huntington Woods, is on trial, charged with first-degree murder in Benzie County Circuit Court.

The prosecution said that Unger was a self-centered man who forced his 37 year-old wife, Florence Unger, off a 12-foot-high deck and then drowned her. The Ungers were in the middle of a divorce and went to Watervale, a northern Michigan resort, on Oct. 24, 2003, with their two young sons. Florence Unger's body was found the next morning floating in Lower Herring Lake.

The defense has said the death was an accident.

Harrison began his closing argument Wednesday afternoon, gently trying to create doubt in the jurors' minds before they begin deliberations. By Thursday afternoon, he was attacking the prosecution's case, arguing that it was weak -- and failed to prove a crime was committed. He said that the prosecution's own medical experts disagreed about the cause of death.

This is the last time Harrison will be able to adress the jury before it begins deliberating.

When he is finished, the prosecution, led by Assistant Attorney General Donna Pendergast, will have an opportunity to respond. Then, Judge James Batzer will give the jury instructions and deliberations will begin.

NoraLee
06-15-2006, 04:24 PM
Link to AP story in Detroit News -- June 15, 2006:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MI_HUSBAND_CHARGED_MIOL-?SITE=MIDTN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
"Affair might have caused Florence Unger's distress, attorney says"

NoraLee
06-15-2006, 06:52 PM
AP story -- Jun 15, 6:45 PM EDT --
"Attorneys wrap up final arguments in murder trial"

>>After closing arguments, Batzer dismissed one juror who is scheduled to leave next week on a long-planned trip to Alaska. The juror, who declined to speak with reporters, was escorted by a sheriff's deputy to his pickup truck.
Two other jurors will be designated as alternates and dismissed Friday, leaving 12 to decide Unger's fate.<<

NoraLee
06-15-2006, 07:12 PM
Detroit News -- June 16, 2006

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060615/UPDATE/606150473
Jury to weigh Unger murder case

Mike Martindale / The Detroit News

BEULAH -- Closing arguments in a Huntington Woods man's murder trial concluded Thursday with a prosecutor holding up for a Benzie Circuit Court jury two photographs of Florence Unger: one of her smiling into the camera, the other of her lying in the morgue.

Mark Unger, 45, is on trial for first-degree murder in the October 25, 2003 death of his wife, Florence, 37, at a northern Michigan resort.

Defense attorney Robert S. Harrison ripped into the prosecution's case as "red herrings" and "the worst kind of circumstantial evidence" and unloaded on the Benzie Circuit Court jury with his explanations of what happened.

The jury has been hearing the case against Mark Unger since April 26.

"My point to you is anyone can go in the wrong direction if they are given wrong information," Harrison told the jury of eight men and seven women. "… This case was in the trash can of the courthouse before it was even started. There are a number of questions that can't be answered fully -- on both sides.

NoraLee
06-16-2006, 11:40 AM
AP story -- June 16, 2006
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MI_HUSBAND_CHARGED_MIOL-?SITE=MIDTN&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Jurors begin deliberations.

CyberLaw
06-16-2006, 01:22 PM
bobbiangel's:

So do you think that people hire attorneys, so they will "disregard" their legal advice. If that is the case, then of course, the person going to the attorney, went to law school, right? They know more then the attorney, when it comes to "custody" and "divorce issues"

Of course the client knows more and has better advice then the attorney, that is why they go and hire them at a "very high" price, to "second guess" a person who went to school for seven years and passed the bar......

If Mark did not kill Flo on the "vacation" he would have devised another way.

Trust me when I say that "this was well thought" out and planned by Mark, manipulated by Mark, and he knew "exactly" why Flo would "be coerced" into doing so, because he knew that if she did not go away, he would gain the advantage in child custody matters. He counted on this...because he knew that she would not allow him any "advantage" when it came to the kids, as he had already stated that he was going to take them away from her.

He knew that the kids meant the world to her and that she would put the kids first and foremost ahead of her, despite her reservations about the weekend.........he knew and counted on this and used this to his advantage to harm his wife to seek revenge for her "seeking" a Divorce.

Used his kids as pawns to harm his wife, unfortunately it happens too many times......

Mark left his kids without a Mother, the attorney did not.

I know he is guilty, everyone on this thread knows he is guilty, but...the defence has scored points......and presented a compelling case, lets just hope not compelling enough.

Again a lawyer is hired by a client for legal advice, they have no idea what a murderous husband would do, neither did Flo. She did not go on this trip "knowing" that her non violent husband would kill her.

No one did.....

No one can foresee the future, there was no "evidence" of the foreseeabilty of Marks action......only Mark knew what Mark wanted to do.....

Just like when the courts grant "access" and visitation to kids, and the husband "takes" the kids and goes on the lam.

Should the Judge now be blamed........lawyers blamed. The Dad was a normal regular person, now he is on the run from the law......

Or a wife meets with a "non violent" husband to "hand over the kids for visitation" and he shoots her....again is it the "mediators" fault, the "judges" fault, the legal systems fault, or the "personal responsibility" of the person who committed the crime.

NoraLee
06-16-2006, 02:03 PM
Detroit News -- June 16, 2006

Waiting for verdiict..
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060616/UPDATE/606160435

NoraLee
06-16-2006, 03:46 PM
Detroit Free Press -- June 16, 2006

"Deliberations Under Way In Unger Trial"
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060616/NEWS11/60616006/1013

Detroit News update -- June 16, 2006

"Judge gives Unger jury final instructions"
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060616/UPDATE/606160441

Bobbisangel
06-16-2006, 07:47 PM
CYBERLAW....I just read on here that Florence and her attorney had met with Unger 4 days before the vacation and he was told that his vices were going to be exposed in court. It sounds like they were trying to get him to back off or they would use the drugs, etc against him. I'll bet he was one ticked off man after hearing that threat.

Granted that he could have murdered her anywhere but when two people are getting a divorce and are battling over their children or anything else and that person is involved in heavy duty drugs you know he could be dangerous. Especially when this guy didn't want a divorce. So the sane person of the two needs to be on guard and not place them selves in a situation where they could easily get hurt. Like going off with him alone.

My daughter had one of the best divorce attorneys in this area. When they went to court her husband didn't show but just in case...after the proceeding was to start the judge allowed only my daughter...her attorney...himself...the bailff and two deputy sheriffs in the room and he made sure that the door was locked. When my daughter left the court the 2 deputys walked her to her car and followed her for a ways. He had threatened her life and the judge and attorney knew that he was dangerous.

Her attorney would never have suggested that she go away with him for a weekend. They also had a child and he threatened to fight for custody. Even that threat wouldn't have gotten my daughter to spend a weekend alone with him. He was also doing drugs and those drugs make a psycopath even crazier.

My daughter's ex did murder her about a month after the divorce was final but it wasn't because she set herself up or made it easier for him to do that.
Her ex planned the murder all out just like Unger did but I still think that was a crazy thing to suggest to Flo. Attorney's aren't always right and sometimes you have to question their suggestions....like a weekend with a dope addict.
It seems to me that a judge would have frowned on that suggestion just knowing how volitile the marriage was. Flo could have explained why she refused to go if that question came up or her attorney could have explained why that wasn't a good idea. Regardless, I'll bet her attorney feels like chit.

NoraLee
06-16-2006, 09:46 PM
Bobbisangel:

I am so sorry to read about your daughter. Hope that guy rots in H*LL!

NoraLee
06-16-2006, 09:50 PM
Link to a blog by reporter Derricke Dennis -- WDIV -- Channel 4 Detroit -- his take on the Unger trial.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/bloglog/index.html

NoraLee
06-19-2006, 11:46 AM
Detroit News article -- June 19, 2006
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060619/UPDATE/606190400
"Unger jury begins second day of deliberation"

>>On Monday, less than an hour back into deliberations, the jury requested an easel, some writing implements and tape to help them in their task.<<

CyberLaw
06-19-2006, 12:38 PM
If I recall he was not a "dope" addict, but he had been in rehab for his past addictions.

So much for going away for the weekend with a dope addict.

My presenation and case to the Jugde, but imagine Mark is standing beside me, like a puppet, and I am speaking in Marks voice.

You see if she did not go away for the weekend, he/we would have said:

Your honor, the children have had a difficult time during the pending divorce, I wanted them to feel loved by both parents, I want them to know that both parents are there for them, that both parents love them and that both parents want the best for the children.

This vacation was about "trying" to reconcile the marriage for the sake of the children, doing what is best for the kids, just because Flo and I are "contemplating" divorce, does not mean that the kids would not be put first and foremost ahead of me at least. Their mother obviously does not feel the same way about putting the kids ahead of her.

But my wife refused to "listen" to me, appreciate that I was "trying" to do what was best for the kids emotionally, as we all know that it is not in the kids best interest to be from a broken family, instead of a two parent home.

My wife wants the divorce your honor, I just want what is best for my kids. Since my wife "refuses" to even consider even talking to me "about fixing" the problems in our marriage, she refuses to even talk to me.



Well you can see that I have sought help for my PAST drug problems, which of course was not court ordered, but on a voluntarly basis, I knew I had a problem, which I sought help for, all for the sake of myself, my wife and kids.

Of course those past addictions are a thing of the past and I am living in the present and the kids are my first and foremost priority.

My wife seems to have used the kids against me....by not going away, not putting the best interest of the children first.

The kids kept asking "why was Mom not here for the weekend", why won't Mom talk to you, why won't Mom want to try to keep our family together.

Heck your honor, they even asked me if Mom still loved them, or was their Mom going to "divorce" them also. The kids feel that it is their "fault" and I spent the better part of the entire weekend telling them that "it is their Mothers" choice not to spend time with them.

I do hope this clarifies my position your honor, I love my kids and I ONLY want what is best for them.

Even if my wife does divorce me, I do wonder if she will put the kids ahead of "her paranoid" delusion of me wanting to do her harm.

Her delusions may keep her from fulfiling her "legal" access obligations, or is she "going" to imagine that I want to harm the kids too and then act upon these delusions.....to the detriment of my children whom want to see and whom I have a court order to see.

My wife may not be "balanced" because there is no evidence at all that I have ever harmed her or the kids.

But she seems to "think" that I want to harm her, that is why she did not go away. But I want to know what the factual basis for her "refusal" to go away with the kids. I told her I wanted "to attempt" to solve and fix the problems within our marriage, now does that seem "logical" that I would want to harm her.

Your honor she is "using" this as an excuse to "neglect" her kids emotional well being.

So I really fail to see why she did not put the kids first and go away for a "fun weekend" to spend time with them as a family. Even if our marriage is over, the weekend was "mainly" for the kids. The kids will always come first in my life at least, I don't know about their Mother.

I have grave consideration if she will in the future put her "unfounded" allegations ahead of her children's emotional wellbeing.

Any questions, Bobbiangel......

Now Flo's attorney: Your honor, he is a "bad" man, he wants to take her kids away from her, she is scared of him, she is concerned for the safety of herself and her children. That is why she did not go away. Oh, you mean that she left her kids alone with him all weekend. Well she is more concerned about her safety than the kids. Opps, I mean that he would not harm the kids, but he would harm her "to seek" revenge.

What is the factual basis for this, and my evidence, well let me see. He had a past drug addiction, no, he has never been arrested for any offence, yes, he is "well off", and affluent, no there has never been a "restraining" order, no, no threats on her life either, no, your honor, no threats he has made to other people indicating that he is going to harm her. No, again the Police have never been called to their house for any "fights". No past allegation of abuse.

But she did not go away for the weekend "because she "just knows" that he is a violent man, that he wants to harm her, that he wants to take the kids away.

That is if she did not go away......I don't think Flo thought in a million years thought that Mark would kill her, as she probably thought that he would never leave the kids without a Mom.

This is exactly the technique that lawyers use.......I wonder how I know that....gee let me see.....

Trust me when I say: If Flo did not go away for the weekend, it would have been detrimental in her case of custody of the kids. That is why she went.......

NoraLee
06-19-2006, 08:03 PM
Link to WDIV [Detroit] update, June 19, 2006:

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/9394433/detail.html
"Still No Verdict In Unger Murder Trial"
"Second Day of Jury Deliberations Complete"

Bobbisangel
06-20-2006, 07:17 AM
I'm going to go over the problems in the marriage, etc and then I'll be Flo's attorney. Are you a defense attorney or a Prosecutor? Please say that you are a Prosecutor or an ethical defense attorney ;)

NoraLee
06-20-2006, 12:27 PM
Detroit Free Press -- June 20, 2006
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060620/NEWS99/60620007


Detroit News -- June 20, 2006:

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060620/UPDATE/606200434

Unger Jury requests readback of pathologist's testimony

Mike Martindale / The Detroit News

BEULAH -- A Benzie Circuit Court jury requested a readback Tuesday of a pathologist's testimony in the trial of a Huntington Woods man charged in the October 25, 2003, death of his wife at a northern Michigan lakeside resort.

Mark Unger, 45, is charged with first-degree murder in the death of his wife, Florence, 37, who was found floating face down in Lower Herring Lake at the Inn of Watervale resort, about 10 miles south of Frankfort. Prosecutors say the woman was knocked off a 12-foot high boathouse deck during an argument with Unger over their pending divorce. They contend that he then put her unconscious body in the lake. Defense attorneys described the death as a tragic accident that occurred while Unger slept with their two sons in a nearby cottage.

The jury asked to hear portions of the testimony from Dr. Stephen Cohle, a Kent County pathologist who did the initial autopsy on Florence Unger. The transcript readback involved Cohle's interpretation of lividity -- pooling of blood in the body and resulting bruising -- found on the woman's body.

It was unclear what significance the readback has on the continuing jury deliberation but is the first transcript rehearing that has been requested in the third day of deliberations.

CyberLaw
06-20-2006, 02:18 PM
Go ahead go over the problems in the marriage, unless this man has "harmed" his kids and wife, there again is no "factual" evidence that he ever intended to do them harm.

So again, Flo would have "no legal basis" for declining to go for the weekend.

The point being, he would have been allowed access to the kids, unless he has harmed the kids, in that case, it would have been supervised access.

Just because there are "problems" in a marriage, OMG what a "relevation" that a marriage has problems, does not mean that there is any indication of violence of threats or violent behavior.

But the judge will look at "the best" interest of the kids and was it in the best interest of the kids, not to spend time with Mom and Dad, as a family on vacation. Or did the wife "decide" just not to go away with the kids and put her "unfounded" suspicions or her "ex husband to be" combative behaviour in place of the kids. Did she "decline" to go away, because she put herself ahead of the kids....

Because the courts will always look at parents behaviour in the best interest of the kids.......

Unfortunately Marks is "typical" of husband "wanting revenge" because of course their ego cannot accept that their wife wants to Divorce them.

At least he did not harm the kids also, like so many other "loving" Dads do.

Jeana (DP)
06-20-2006, 02:23 PM
Once you're an "addict," you're always an addict. If the dude was in rehab a "few times," he was an addict. He may have been in recovery at the time, but he's still an addict.

NoraLee
06-20-2006, 08:38 PM
WXYZ-Detroit [channel 7] 5 and 6 p.m. newscasts

Reporter Glenn Zimmerman interviewed Mark Unger's sister, Connie Wohlberg, who stands behind her brother. She would only do the interview if she could repeat that her brother passed two polygraphs [arranged by the defense]. Unger would not submit to a police polygraph. Florence's family will not speak until after the verdict.

NoraLee
06-20-2006, 08:43 PM
Detroit News -- June 20, 2006

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060620/UPDATE/606200443

"Unger jury ends third day of deliberations without a verdict"
story by Mike Martindale

excerpt:
>>On Tuesday, the jury asked for readbacks on the testimony of two witnesses. They first asked to hear portions of the testimony from Dr. Stephen Cohle, a Kent County pathologist who did the initial autopsy on Florence Unger. The transcript readback involved Cohle's interpretation of lividity -- pooling of blood in the body and resulting bruising -- found on the woman's body.
Tuesday afternoon, the jurors asked to be reread portions of testimony provided by Sgt. Bethany Baesch of the Benzie County Sheriff's Department. Baesch was off-duty and at a soccer game when she was called to the death scene at Watervale to interview the Ungers' two sons, Max, then 10, and Tyler, then 7 years old.

Court reporter Kathy J. McBride reread portions of Baesch's testimony in which she recalled how officers also checked the "Mary Ellen" cottage that the Ungers were renting for signs of "blood or disarray or any evidence to tell us what happened the night before."

McBride reread how Baesch had testified that she interviewed the boys separately and they were upset after being told by their father that their mother had died. Unger had taken the boys to the Inn restaurant where he broke the news, Baesch said.

McBride reread how Max told Baesch that his parents had told the boys about the divorce and that the night before -- Oct. 24 -- both adults had gone down to the boathouse deck. The boy told the officer that his mother carried a "blue blanket, believed to be the blue comforter found alongside the boathouse deck the next morning, near Florence Unger's body.

"'Dad said mom said she would be up in a little while,'" Baesch said Max recalled, along with being brushed by his father's whiskers when he was tucked into bed listening to a Detroit Red Wings hockey game on a radio headset.

The jury indicated to Judge James M. Batzer there may be other requests for readback of testimony in the eight-week trial, which began April 26.<<

NoraLee
06-20-2006, 08:47 PM
Mary Ellen http://www.watervaleinn.com/Cottages/Mary-Ellen.jpg (http://javascript<img%20src=&quot;images/smilies/tongue.gif&quot;%20border=&quot;0&quot;%20alt=&quot;&quot;%20title=&quot;Stick%2 0Out%20Tongue&quot;%20smilieid=&quot;6&quot;%20class=&quot;inlineimg&quot;% 20/>opUp('Mary-Ellen.htm'))

One of the eight original cottages, the Mary Ellen retains her charm with a fireplace, screened porch, three bedrooms and two bathrooms. Located right on Lower Herring Lake. (Sleeps 6)


Summer

Weekly: $3075




Off Season

Nightly: $300
Weekly: $2150


http://www.watervaleinn.com/

Bobbisangel
06-20-2006, 09:38 PM
Cyberlaw,

We could go back and forth for weeks about this :eek:

When a man and a women no longer get along and their home is nothing but a battleground the kindest thing that they can do for their children is to divorce. The kids still have a mom and a dad and can always see both of them. Maybe one person wants the divorce and the other one doesn't but no one can force a person to stay with someone that they can't stand to even look at.

I don't know how long Mark had been using drugs or how ofter he went into treatment but I lived with a alcoholic for a number of years and believe me...when I made up my mind to get a divorce no one could have talked me into trying it again or anything else. And it was in the best interest of my 4 children to go our seperate ways. My middle daughter had wet the bed for ages off and on. She was 7 yrs when we seperated and she totally stopped wetting the bed. It is harmful for children to be raised in the middle of a lot of hostility and fighting.

Evidentally the judge wasn't aware of Mark's drug usage as Florance had just told him along with her attorney that it was going to come out in court. She probably could hardly stand to look at him. Sounds like he wasn't a very nice addict.

For a woman to have to go away for the weekend with someone that she can't stand and wants nothing more than to get away from him.....and for the children to be subjected to more of what they had grown up with is senseless. That is placing the children right back into the same invirnoment that they needed to be away from. That is not in your childs best interet.

I don't see how a judge could think that she was putting herself ahead of her children. Most people divorce because they don't love each other anymore and many because they can't stand each other anymore. Why take a chance on going away for the weekend just to fight and argue all weekend? Besides that it can give the person that might not want the divorce false hope only to be let down again and that can really cause more problems.

Does everyone who is getting a divorce have to spend the weekend together in that town? Even if their gut is telling them it is not a good idea they still have to follow someone elses rules or they will lose their children? Or go just to satisfy some judge? I have never heard of such a thing...ever.

Well, they don't have to worry about her losing her kids now...she is dead and he won't have to worry about custody...I hope...that he is heading to the big house. That just leaves the two children whose best interest the trip was in anyway. Yep, it was really in the best interest of those 2 boys.

nanandjim
06-21-2006, 12:37 PM
What's the holdup with this jury? I believe that this guy out and out murdered his wife. I sure hope that he doesn't get off.

NoraLee
06-21-2006, 02:30 PM
According to WDIV --Channel 4 -- verdict will be read in about 30 minutes.

NoraLee
06-21-2006, 02:31 PM
Verdict will be announced around 3 p.m.

NoraLee
06-21-2006, 03:09 PM
GUILTY of murder in the FIRST DEGREE

NoraLee
06-21-2006, 03:11 PM
GUILTY -- FIRST DEGREE

Jury was polled. Unger looking stoic. Jury is discharged.

CyberLaw
06-21-2006, 03:24 PM
Now we can hear all about the years of Appeals........

weekender
06-21-2006, 04:24 PM
Can someone tell me, how far from the spot where she fell, to the water where she was found? Was there blood between the pooled blood where she initially fell, and where she was found? Drag marks or droplets?

Are there links to pictures of crime scene somewhere?

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with case, and had almost forgotten about it till I stumbled across this thread today.

NoraLee
06-21-2006, 05:09 PM
Detroit News -- Wednesday, June 21, 2006
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060621/UPDATE/606210443/1361
If you go to this page, there is also an audio of Florence's mother.

Jury: Unger guilty of first-degree murder

Mike Martindale / The Detroit News




BEULAH -- After 26 hours of deliberation spread out over four days, a Benzie Circuit Court jury Wednesday found Mark Unger guilty in the October 25, 2003 death of his wife at a northern Michigan lakeside resort.

Unger, 45, of Huntington Woods was charged with first-degree murder in the death of his wife, Florence, 37, who was found floating face down in Lower Herring Lake during a weekend visit to the Inn of Watervale resort, located about 10 miles south of Frankfort.

The charge carries a mandatory sentence of life in prison with no parole. Jurors also had been instructed they could consider second-degree murder, which is punishable by any term up to life with chance of parole.

"It's inconceivable to me how the jury could vote the way it did with the overwhelming evidence they had about Mark's innocence," defense attorney Robert Harrison said. "I promise you this: We will be appealing, and we will be appealing to the highest court we can."

As the verdict was read, Unger, who often sat during the trial smiling at nearby relatives, showed little emotion. His mother, Bette Rosenthal, sister Connie Wolberg and brother-in-law, Gerald, all sat nearby in the courtroom, along with a local rabbi Stacie Bahle.

Florence Unger's parents, Harold and Claire Stern, both of Huntington Woods, sat on the opposite side of the courtroom.

SEE LINK FOR ARTICLE

altruist1000
06-21-2006, 05:56 PM
Great news - another murderer off the streets.

The jury did their job well.

nanandjim
06-21-2006, 07:43 PM
GUILTY -- FIRST DEGREE

Jury was polled. Unger looking stoic. Jury is discharged.
:clap: I'm glad. Unfortunately, it doesn't bring his wife back. However, at least, this scumbag will rot in jail.

NoraLee
06-21-2006, 07:48 PM
WXYZ-Channel 7 Detroit:

http://www.detnow.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_4791671,00.html

Friends reaction to verdict.

NoraLee
06-21-2006, 09:00 PM
Local people speak out on the verdict -- WDIV website forum:

http://forums.ibsys.com/viewmessages.cfm?sitekey=det&Forum=58&Topic=14053

kato
06-22-2006, 09:15 AM
Way to go, jury. This case will be featured on "Prime Time" tonight.

NoraLee
06-22-2006, 09:45 AM
Way to go, jury. This case will be featured on "Prime Time" tonight.
Kato -- Thanks for this info. :)

kato
06-22-2006, 09:47 AM
Kato -- Thanks for this info. :)

You're welcome.

ljwf22
06-22-2006, 11:49 PM
I though 'Primetime' did an excellent job. I'm sure Unger thought his participation in his 'video diary' before he was charged would help his case. Luckily, the jury saw through his woe-is-me tale. :boohoo:

kato
06-23-2006, 07:34 AM
I though 'Primetime' did an excellent job. I'm sure Unger thought his participation in his 'video diary' before he was charged would help his case. Luckily, the jury saw through his woe-is-me tale. :boohoo:

I'm glad it was good. I recorded it and haven't watched it yet.

NoraLee
06-23-2006, 08:05 AM
Detroit News article -- June 23, 2006
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060623/METRO02/606230348
Juror: 'A lot of little details' pointed to Unger

Computer-animated graphics, Florence's fear of the dark played into decision, contractor says.

Mike MArtindale / The Detroit News

BEULAH -- A juror who helped convict Mark Unger of the October 2003 murder of his wife, Florence, at a northern Michigan resort said Thursday there was just too much evidence pointing toward Unger's guilt.

"It wasn't any one thing, but rather several things -- a lot of little details -- that had to come together," said David Anthony, 53, who described 26 hours of deliberations over four days as "difficult and hard" and "very emotional" at the end.

"But if there is a chance he will read this, I want Mark Unger to know we gave him a fair shot," Anthony said. " We gave him the benefit of the doubt."

Unger, 45, of Huntington Woods was back in his cell Thursday at the county jail, wearing the orange canvas uniform and slippers rather than the neat blue suit he had worn to court each day for the eight weeks of trial.

He will be sentenced later to life in prison without parole.

see link for rest of article.

Buzz Mills
06-23-2006, 05:52 PM
GUILTY of murder in the FIRST DEGREEPrimetime did a whole program of the murder and trial last night, and they had film of the verdict being anounced and the momentary shocked reaction by Unger. He thought he had gotten away with it, as he was smiling, and very happy, just before the verdict was announced.

Bobbisangel
06-25-2006, 02:23 AM
I am so thankful that the jury found him guitly and that he will get LWOP. I really believe that he thought he was going to be headed home after the verdict came down.

I'm also thankful that his boys have been away from him for two years and won't have to make an emotional adjustment...packing their belongings and going to a new home. They are already settled in and that is good.

I'll never understand why these fathers never give their kids a second thought when they murder their mothers. I guess they are just so focused on themselves that no one else counts.

I've read some comments other places about "his wife was having an affair" like he should have gotten away with murder because she was having an affair. I might not agree with a person cheating but there is never any good reason for murder.

fundiva
06-26-2006, 04:25 PM
Can someone tell me, how far from the spot where she fell, to the water where she was found? Was there blood between the pooled blood where she initially fell, and where she was found? Drag marks or droplets?

Are there links to pictures of crime scene somewhere?

Sorry, I haven't been keeping up with case, and had almost forgotten about it till I stumbled across this thread today.
From the video/photos on TV it appears she "fell" about 10-12 feet onto a concrete apron around the deck that was approximately 3-4 feet wide. There was a large pool of blood about 2 feet across, which didn't jive (IMO) with the defense's version of her hitting and then bouncing into the water. There would not have been that much blood from just a hit. No drag marks. I did not hear about droplets, but they could have been explained as happening from the impact. iShe hit right in the middle of the apron so if she was rolled over once she would have been in the water. The other point the prosecution made, which the defense did not address (that I saw), was the fact that when Unger was told his wife "was in the water" at the other end of the cabins, he ran straight to the spot and jumped into the water, but you could not see the body in the water until you got just right above it; which begs the question "how did he know where the body was?" Those two points, along with a couple of other things, told me he had to have done it.

pfireboy
07-04-2006, 05:26 AM
Guilty. Finally this case is over. Why cant people just get divorced these days with out killing thier spouse? I would let him walk away clean even convicted if I could just have my sister back. The divorce would be done by now. They would have both bought houses nearby each other to share custody, slowly started a new life for both of them. Instead, mark, his family, and a few of his friends (Mort Meisner:furious: ) in their denial have shown what evil lurks in the hearts of people, shame on them. I am sick that my sister ever married him , and sick that my sisters last few years of her private life got to get re-hashed over and over again for all to see.:sick:. I hope mark enjoys the alternative live he chose:behindbar at least his family can visit him I have to visit my sister in a cemetery

shannaleigh
07-05-2006, 04:00 PM
My heart goes out to your family. I watched a television show about this case and I think your sister was beautiful.

NoraLee
07-06-2006, 12:15 PM
Mark Unger's mother is going to court over visitation of the two sons.

Link to July 6 Detroit Free Press story:
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060706/NEWS03/607060400
>>Bette Rosenthal, who lives in Florida, has filed suit in Oakland County Circuit Court asking that she be allowed, under Michigan's Grandparents Rights Act, to visit regularly with her grandsons, Max, 12, and Tyler, 9.<<

>>Generally, under Michigan law, grandparents can seek visitation of their grandchildren if they can show that ending the relationship will cause a "substantial risk of emotional, mental or physical harm."
But Rosenthal's case is not so clear because, also under Michigan law, once Unger's rights are terminated, Rosenthal has no legal standing to seek visitation with the boys.

But her attorneys are hoping to convince Oakland County Family Court Judge Linda Hallmark, in a hearing set for July 12, to order visitation for Rosenthal before Unger loses his rights to his sons.

And they are hoping such an order would stand, even after the adoption takes place.

"Mrs. Rosenthal has been very actively involved in her two grandchildren, taking them to sports and activities. They would travel for weeks at a time," said Bloomfield Hills attorney Dan Victor.

"These children have a very serious bond with their grandmother."

Victor said Florence Unger's family has allowed Rosenthal to see her grandsons on "a very limited basis" since Mark Unger's arrest and conviction.<<

Bobbisangel
07-07-2006, 05:10 AM
In my opinion visitation with the killers parent or parents depends on one thing.....will that grandparent put the children and what is best for them first and formost? If the grandmother doesn't believe that her son committed the murder and she is hell bent on convincing the boys that he didn't do it then she would not be thinking about what is in the boys best interest.

I'm sure that the boys have been in therapy. If the grandmother really wants what is best for the boys she will spend some time with their therapist and ask the therapist to help her understand how to interact with the boys where their father and the murder are concerned. Therapist work with truth. If the therapist and Flo's parents are being honest and up front with the boys about what happened but Marks mother has another story and is set on making the boys believe that it was an accident then she shouldn't see the boys. She would only confuse them and mess with their heads. They don't need that.

If Mark's mother really loves the boys and their emotional and mental health comes first then I think she should have visits with them. Kids need all the love and support that they can get.

Bobbisangel
07-07-2006, 05:34 AM
Guilty. Finally this case is over. Why cant people just get divorced these days with out killing thier spouse? I would let him walk away clean even convicted if I could just have my sister back. The divorce would be done by now. They would have both bought houses nearby each other to share custody, slowly started a new life for both of them. Instead, mark, his family, and a few of his friends (Mort Meisner:furious: ) in their denial have shown what evil lurks in the hearts of people, shame on them. I am sick that my sister ever married him , and sick that my sisters last few years of her private life got to get re-hashed over and over again for all to see.:sick:. I hope mark enjoys the alternative live he chose:behindbar at least his family can visit him I have to visit my sister in a cemetery



I'm sorry that your beautiful sister ever married him too. I also will never understand why some people can't just walk away when the marriage has gone beyond being mended.

I know that it is hard when your sister ends up being victimized again throughout a trial. It isn't fair or right but it always happens. The defense, it seems, trys to justify why the murder took place when in fact it has nothing to do with anything that your sister did or didn't do. It was a choice that her husband made. Did he really think that he was going to get away with it!!

My daughter was murdered by her ex-husband of two months. He is in prison now but I hate the fact that he is still alive and she isn't. He ran after the murder and was gone for 8 years before he was caught. During that time I would catch myself thinking "when they catch Mike then Shelley can come back home." I wish that is the way that it really worked. I don't know what these guys think they gain by killing their wives or ex-wives. They end up in prison which isn't much of a life. My daughter's killer was in Mexico...he remarried and had a year old baby boy when he got caught. He had moved on with his life. Why couldn't he have done that without murdering my daughter? I'll never understand the thinking of these guys. They just refuse to let go.

I'm so glad that the jury found Mark guilty and I still believe that Flo's attorney should be slapped for advising her to go away with him for the weekend. I will never understand what in the heck he was thinking.

Now it is up to you and your parents to give Flo's boys the best life possible. They will have problems throughout their lives and will need loving support and people to talk to. I think it is the hardest on the kids who are left with no parents. My grandaughter was almost 5 when her dad murdered her mother. She was in therapy for years. She has mixed feelings about her dad.
I guess that is normal.

There is no such thing a closure but we did get some justice for our loved ones. I guess we have to be satisfied with that. Take care

NoraLee
07-12-2006, 02:00 PM
Detroit Free Press -- July 12, 2006

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060712/NEWS11/60712012

"Unger's mother may use state law to seek visitation of grandsons"

>>But Oakland County Family Court Judge Linda Hallmark ruled Rosenthal, who lives in Florida, will have to wait until after a trial is held to terminate Mark Unger's parental rights to his sons, Max, 13, and Tyler, 10. That trial date is set for Aug. 28.<<

NoraLee
07-18-2006, 03:25 PM
WXYZ-TV Detroit June 18, 2006
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060718/UPDATE/607180412

>>Tuesday afternoon, Mark Unger was sentenced to life in prison without parole for the murder of his estranged wife Florence Unger at a northern Michigan resort in 2003.
During sentencing Unger maintained his innocence and called the verdict "ridiculous."<<

Story earlier in the day from Detroit News:
"Unger sentencing moved after storms disrupt power:
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060718/UPDATE/607180412/1361

NoraLee
07-18-2006, 05:04 PM
Detroit News -- Tuesday July 18, 2006

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060718/UPDATE/607180422

>>Mark Unger, 45, spoke for the first time since his trial began April 26.
"I am wrongfully convicted of this crime," said a gray, weary-looking Unger. "I am innocent. I know it, and I am confident that our appeal will overturn this wrongful conviction. I am hoping I will one day be able to hold my children in my arms again."<<

rayray
01-03-2007, 02:47 PM
This was featured on Dateline last night... He seemed really convincing.. until I realized his sorrow was probably for himself. Those poor babies.

nanandjim
01-03-2007, 03:56 PM
This was featured on Dateline last night... He seemed really convincing.. until I realized his sorrow was probably for himself. Those poor babies.
I just watched Dateline as I had taped the show. He didn't seem convincing to me.

rayray
01-03-2007, 03:57 PM
Ugh.. I think I was just fooled by the crying and carrying on.. It only lasted a few minutes.

nanandjim
01-03-2007, 05:18 PM
Ugh.. I think I was just fooled by the crying and carrying on.. It only lasted a few minutes.
You were right in your previous post. He was just crying for himself. My opinion, of course. ;)

lisafremont
01-04-2007, 12:25 PM
My knowledge of this case comes primarily from the DATELINE show from the other night called "Lady in the Lake" and featuring interviews with Mark Unger. If you missed the show you can go to the Dateline web site and access videos of this.
Most of his snivelling seemed feigned with only one occasion when he actually squeezed out a tear. Most of the boo-hooing was strictly of the dry-eyed variety. Seen it before!

Perhaps someone who followed the trial on a daily basis could answer my question, raised by something MU said on the web site video, and not included in the tv show, something which went to the heart of the matter, IMO.
MU said that he and Flo took CANDLES AND A BLANKET down to the deck that night.
That would seem like a sensible thing to do, especially for a woman who was afraid of the dark.
He said she was "comfortable" on the deck and didn't want to go in yet when he went to "check on" the boys. He made it sound like he didn't know why she stayed, which is strange to me because if it happened as he claimed, I can't imagine she wouldn't have said something on this subject.

But here's my big problem:
Mark claims he went back to the deck after 15 mins. and "Flo was gone."

WHAT ABOUT THE CANDLES AND BLANKET?? If she "fell" off the deck as the defense claimed, wouldn't they still be there? Wouldn't that have sounded an alarm to him? If she had gone off to the Duncans' wouldn't she have taken them?

Was anything said about the candles and blanket???

Bellgardin
01-30-2007, 02:50 PM
Was anything said about the candles and blanket???
Hi! I know it's been a long time since you posted this question, but I've been looking for the answer and it's been driving me crazy!!! I didn't know about this case until the Dateline episode and then I saw the thread on WS, and read the whole thing.

Anyway, about the comforter, the only thing I could find in reference to it was on the Dateline reporter's blog and the message board for that story, someone stated that the comforter was found with her in the water and was soaked with blood-a lot of blood. This was introduced at the trial as evidence, but not mentioned on Dateline. However, I can't find news report where it was mentioned or anything like that. Obviously they can't show the whole 9 week trial (or however long it was) in an hour, so it wasn't addressed by Dateline. I personally think this was a huge oversight on the part of Dateline because from what I've read, people point to the small amount of blood on the concrete as swaying them to the fact that she did somehow get into the water on her own. However, if the comforter was "soaked" with blood, then it makes sense that the comforter absorbed most of it and that's why only a small "stain" was on the concrete. I still find it very hard to believe that she got herself into the water with a fractured skull and a fractured pelvis. I would imagine it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible to crawl let alone stand with a broken pelvis and severe head trauma.