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kcksum
12-26-2006, 08:55 PM
I'd list all those found guilty by a jury who are guilty, but I don't think this website has enough server space to handle the list. :rolleyes:
and that would mean what to someone like Dowallaby who spent years in prison convicted for not only killing Jaqueline but visciously raping her? So the justice system works most of the time......what does that have to do with the fact that sometimes it doesn't? Comparing one to the other just confirms what I said, that some people in this country are found guilty who are and some people who are found guilty aren't. I never raised the idea that there aren't guilty people in prison, so why counter that as your argument? I never said there were more innocent people in prison than guilty people in prison.....I am fully aware of the math. I believe if there are ANY innocent people in prison for things they didn't do that it is one of the worst travesty's there is. Talking about how many guilty people there have been doesn't change their situation one bit.

Al_B
10-13-2007, 06:20 PM
"LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- A former Indiana state trooper has asked the Indiana Supreme Court to overturn his conviction of murdering his wife and two children seven years ago."
"

Camm was convicted in 2002 of murdering his wife, Kimberly, 35, along his children, Jill, 5, Bradley, 7, in the garage of their home in the southern Indiana town of Georgetown in September 2000. He was serving a 195-year prison sentence when the state appeals court overturned the verdict, ruling that testimony about Camm's extramarital affairs had unfairly biased jurors":(
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/14334048/detail.html?rss=ind&psp=news

This scares me

Bobbisangel
10-14-2007, 03:31 AM
I remember his second trial...I followed that one and I believe CTV had it on.
I hope to heck he doesn't get away with murdering his whole family. I remember that he tried to blame it on some guy that was supposedly there at the time of the murders. Can't remember what happened to the second guy but he may have been sent up too. I firmly believe that David Cam is responsible for the murders of his whole family. I remember that his alibi was he was playing in a ball game but the Pros figured out that he wasn't seen at the game during the whole game and could have gone home and went back.
I don't see how he can get away with saying that two trials were messed up.

Al_B
10-15-2007, 08:14 AM
I just hope the conviction is held up,it's making its way in the news here so I will try to keep it updated.
"The Floyd County prosecutor's office declined to comment on the filing. Prosecutor Keith Henderson has said previously that he believes the verdict will be upheld. The Indiana attorney general's (http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071015/LOCAL/710150398#) office said it would seek to uphold Camm's conviction"
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071015/LOCAL/710150398

cheko1
10-15-2007, 10:32 AM
Would be a sad day if the conviction were overturned.....he needs to rot for killing his family!

nanandjim
10-15-2007, 10:58 AM
Would be a sad day if the conviction were overturned.....he needs to rot for killing his family!
I agree. David Camm is responsible for his family's deaths. A guy named, Bonet or something like that, was also convicted. He refused to testify against Camm. I really wish that he'd change his mind. I guess that he would have to spend his life in protective custody if he did.

CaliKid
10-15-2007, 05:44 PM
Camm's extramarital affairs provided motive. This sounds like another way to hamstring a trial and make it more difficult to try murderers.

CyberLaw
10-16-2007, 03:36 PM
The affairs are not motive, but it does goes to character. There could be some people that see if he had affairs, then he murdered his family. But one does not equal the other. Bias by some jurors as a man having one or more affairs has to do with the value system or morals. We all know how people feel about others that have had affairs. So yes, it was correct to over turn the vedict, because the affairs were not proven to go to motive, nor used as motive.

Now with the next one, I don't know. It may be similiar, but hoping that the verdict is upheld.

GlitchWizard
10-16-2007, 03:41 PM
The affairs are not motive, but it does goes to character. There could be some people that see if he had affairs, then he murdered his family. But one does not equal the other. Bias by some jurors as a man having one or more affairs has to do with the value system or morals. We all know how people feel about others that have had affairs. So yes, it was correct to over turn the vedict, because the affairs were not proven to go to motive, nor used as motive.

Now with the next one, I don't know. It may be similiar, but hoping that the verdict is upheld.

I agree. Not everyone who has an affair murders their family, but certainly anyone on a jury who was cheated on would have that anger of their own in the back of their mind.

That's how I was with OJ. I didn't care if he killed his ex wife and lover or not - I wanted him convicted simply because he had beaten her previously.

And I'm not a bad person, I just have feelings from being a victim of abuse in my past that would have clouded my judgement in his case.

Amraann
10-16-2007, 04:16 PM
I don't understand how the extra marital affair could cause an overturn???

I agree it goes to motive... If the state has the burden to proof beyond reasonable doubt then what is wrong with the jury hearing this??

It would only be wrong IMO if the affair was not proven.

joe jones
03-19-2008, 02:31 PM
He has just recently had another appeal turned down,

now saying he will appeal because there were typos in the transcript,

Boney - his accomplice has not had any appellate issues raised yet

I was very shocked when Boney came out of the woodwork, and I have always wondered if Boneys sweatshirt had been tested at the time and his DNA found would Camm ever have been charged,

as they would have Boney tied to the crime scene, but maybe Boney would have talked back then too

Camm imo will never admit his guilt so he will never leave prison unless he gets a successful appeal and a NG on retrial

nanandjim
03-21-2008, 06:49 PM
He has just recently had another appeal turned down...Camm imo will never admit his guilt so he will never leave prison unless he gets a successful appeal and a NG on retrial
Good to hear about his appeal being turned down. I don't think that "there were typos in the transcript" will help win him a new trial. I hope that he rots in prison.

evelyn24
07-12-2008, 10:37 PM
This case is back on 48 hours tonight, 2 hours.
I still think Camm is guilty. It's very interesting reading through this thread and hearing all the inside info from locals.

PomMom12
07-13-2008, 12:37 PM
Would the new "Touch DNA" test help in this case?

Houndacres
12-28-2008, 03:39 PM
http://justicefordavidcamm.com

Boyz_Mum
12-28-2008, 06:15 PM
http://justicefordavidcamm.com

Thanks Houndacres for the link.

Houndacres
12-28-2008, 07:16 PM
Hi Boyz Mum,
I was reading the posts on this forum and found many things stated here that just aren't true. I'm all for putting this guy away if he is guilty, I just think it should be based on evidence.
Happy New Year!

Houndacres
12-28-2008, 07:17 PM
continued . . what I meant to say is that I am familiar with this case and the evidence to prove guilt just isn't there.

Boyz_Mum
12-28-2008, 07:31 PM
continued . . what I meant to say is that I am familiar with this case and the evidence to prove guilt just isn't there.

Personally I believe his ties to Boney are the key to solving the whole case. I guess now I don't know if I believe he hired Boney to do this or if it was retaliation against Camm the cop. Just seeing the pictures of their beautiful family, I pray that Camm wasn't "the bad guy".

Bless your heart Houndacres, you seem to be able to look into this and be far more reasonable than I am in drawing conclusions. :blowkiss:

kymedic
12-29-2008, 02:20 PM
For those of you who do not know much about the case other than reading from the media. I would like for you to go to www.justicefordavidcamm.com
There is alot of information about this case there.
Also check the forum at
http://community.cnhi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9101084/m/3821005031

There is awhole lot of information there as well.
He has an appeal at the Supreme Court now waiting on the Justice's to review the wrongs of this case.
There are many many wrongs of this case.
I do know David and yes I know he is innocent.
Please take the time to read.
He did not Molest his daughter. Kim was not leaving him. He WAS PLAYING basketball during the murders.
There is actually NO evidence tying him to this case.
There was DNA from Charles Boney and an unknown female.
Plus many things from this case came up missing. Charles boney was a free man for 4 1/2 years!! Boney-Backbone did this on his own.
Take the time to read please. You will find that there is reasonable doubt. Even the Juries said there was doubt but yet they convicted him on NO evidence.
This trial will be overturned as well.
ANY questions you may email me I will answer or find the answer for you!
ky.medic @yahoo.com

kymedic
12-29-2008, 02:53 PM
Anyone on here know Charles Boney??
If so did he confess to you?
HE IS the SOLE killer in this case. Had his freedom for 4 1/2 yrs.
He BRAGGED about doing this!!!!

So all that THINK David is guilty tell me why? What evidence???

Houndacres
12-29-2008, 03:28 PM
Hi KyMedic! Glad to see you here! I'm also glad to see this forum take off again! I will add that I am one who thought David was guilty from the beginning. I have lived in this area most of my life. I do not know David. However, after studying the facts of this case, I can honestly say the state did not prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Also, there have been too many false rumors spread in this case. So, for anyone concerned about justice, I challenge you to read the evidence yourself and decide.

kymedic
12-29-2008, 03:34 PM
Thanks Hound Acres!

I hope that people will read and decide for themself. Not just listen to rumour.
Or read headlines. BUT read the other forum and read the justice site.
There is so much information about this case also.
Here is a link to the Supreme Ct. Webcast. You can see the Justices were NOT happy about the handling of this case as well

http://www.indianacourts.org/apps/webcasts/default.aspx?search=87S00-0612-CR-499&view=table&sort=

Click on David Camm and you can watch the Supreme Court Oral arguments.

Houndacres
12-29-2008, 03:37 PM
Hi Boyz Mum, I too had problems with the ties to Boney (Pronounced Bo-Nay). If you knew the area in which David and Kim lived, it didn't seem likely to me that Boney just happened to be in that area randomly. However, after further review of the evidence, I learned that Boney hung around Karem's meat market. The owner of Karem's is somehow realted to Kim?? Kim frequented this meat market often. I lived within walking distance of Community Park, the place where David supposedly met Boney. There were always basketball games going on. However, there is not one person who can place David at Community Park, except Boney (a proven liar and convicted criminal).

Houndacres
12-29-2008, 03:41 PM
One of the biggest problems I had with the whole case was the rumor about the insurance policy that David's brother supposedly wrote and forged Kim's name on. However, if you check out the sites that KyMedic has provided, you will see that these rumors just aren't true. The biggest shock I found in the whole thing was Boney's ties to Stan Faith, the prosecutor in the first trial. You would think, given the supposedly check and balances of our justice system, that this type of thing couldn't happen! It is scary to think that this man has been in prison for 8 years (I think it's 8??) and nothing has been done to correct this horrible wrong! Wow. . I have never been a big David Camm fan and now I find myself defending him. . most important here is the fact that this could happen to anyone, not just David. If he is innocent, it needs to be corrected and NOW!

kymedic
12-29-2008, 03:49 PM
Yes the ties between Stan Faith and Boney run VERY VERY DEEP!
Stan was Boney's lawyer, his reference for jobs, Stan and Boney's mother are VERY VERY VERY CLOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boyz_Mum
12-29-2008, 04:26 PM
kymedic and Houndacres, thank you very much for the links and the information you've both provided. Everything I learned about this case was through the 48 hours show and it's been a while since seeing it.

Boney is in jail now, correct? He was a real piece of work.

Boyz_Mum
12-29-2008, 04:30 PM
Yes the ties between Stan Faith and Boney run VERY VERY DEEP!
Stan was Boney's lawyer, his reference for jobs, Stan and Boney's mother are VERY VERY VERY CLOSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stan Faith was the prosecutor in the trial against David Camm? (And had all these ties to Boney?) How on earth does that happen- is the prosecutor supposed to resign if there is conflict like this?

I am sorry for asking so many questions- I'll have to read the links you've both provided. Thanks again!

kymedic
12-29-2008, 04:39 PM
Stan was prosecutor in the 1st trial. Before they found Boney. Faith said the "sweatshirt" with the name "BACKBONE " IN IT was nothing. He did not run a DNA test on it. He pushed it aside!!!
The 2nd trial was under Henderson. Faith lost his re-election to Henderson. This is also when the DEFENSE finally was able to push them to run the DNA on the sweatshirt.
There are many many things so wrong with this case!
Faith should lose his license for this injustice.

Houndacres
12-29-2008, 09:45 PM
Faith should have been charged with a criminal offense for all of this! Not to mention all the evidence that just DISAPPEARED! I think what concerned me the most was that they wouldn't test the shirt for DNA when requested. It took several years before the defense could get them to test the shirt. There were condoms that disappeared and a shower curtian . . can't recall right off hand what else. They didn't do a rape kit either.
KyMedic, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Kim have defense wounds? Also, wasn't there some evidence that her pants had been partially removed? David didn't have any wounds on him, did he?

kymedic
12-29-2008, 10:17 PM
No they didn't do a rape kit. And NO David had no wounds, cuts, abrasions or anything on him at all. Kim had defensive wounds and broken nails.
Her pants were removed halfway her shoes were removed and CAREFULLY placed on top of the Bronco.
BY Criminal Charles Boney.
Boney has a VERY lenghty record of abuse and armed robbery. He preyed on women. THAT is public record!
Yes the shower curtain and condoms dissappeared!
So did a foot print and I THINK a PALM PRINT (can't remember the palm print)
BUT Female DNA was also at the scene. UNKNOWN DNA.
Wonder who's that is to this day no one knows!

Houndacres
12-30-2008, 01:20 AM
I thought the female DNA belonged to Boney's girlfriend, who has since left town?
Was there ever any DNA recovered from under Kim's nails? I think that would be like THE MAJOR CLUE!
You know, it's weird, but I always 'wanted' David to be guilty. Not because I think he did it, but because I wanted someone, anyone to pay for this horrible crime! Emotionally, it's easy to say he's guilty, as so many others have said. But, if I were on the jury and weighing the evidence, I would have found him not guilty.

kymedic
12-30-2008, 01:56 AM
I don't know if they matched the DNA under Kim's nails.
I do know they took 4 1/2 yrs to even run DNA in CODIS and found Boney.
It is so sad that it took that long to find him and he admitted to this!
Alot of people want David guilty. They wanted a fall guy. ALL of the investigators had "tunnel vision" and went after David. This was basically a Charachter Assasination on David.
I firmly believe he is innocent. I pray that he is released and is able to grieve properly.
I feel so bad for him and his family. They have been through so much with this.
The juror's even said there will ALWAYS be doubt. NOW if a juror can come out and say that then JUSTICE was not served. The jury is obligated to find a person not guilty if reasonable doubt exist. It does and they even said it did in an interview after the trials.
That is at the very least misjustice!

I know I am emotionally involved because David is a friend BUT objectively I can see that there is no evidence against David. Reasonable doubt does exist.
This CAN happen to anyone.
I pray the Supreme Court rules soon for David and his family. They are such great people.

Kimmer
05-30-2009, 03:00 AM
OK after a long time from posting on this site, I would publicly like to say that I firmly believe I WAS WRONG DAVID CAMM IS INNOCENT...I have taken several years to review this case, and I can also say the fact that I knew Kim Camms brother-in-law I was looking at this case from the wrong side...I am now attempting to do anything I can to right a wrong that was done to David Camm..

I would suggest that anyone who really wants to know what happened to David please go to justicefordavidcamm.com there is invaluable information on this site that if you are an open minded person will show you what an injustice was done to this man...If you feel inclined you can also donate to his defense fund since his family has basically lost everything trying to get him out of jail...He is currently serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole and in isolation..This case has dragged on for 9 years and it is high time the Court of Appeals throws this case out against him and makes it so he can not be re-tried...

I also feel that if the State wants to go after a second person that would be Charles Boneys girlfriend at the time who now lives out of the country in Trinidad...

once again...

DAVID CAMM IS INNOCENT PLEASE VISIT...JUSTICEFORDAVIDCAMM.COM

Kimmer
05-30-2009, 03:20 AM
If anyone is interested in reading about what really happened during both of David Camms trial please visit justicefordavidcamm.com

I know that this seems like an open and shut case, but believe me I live in the area that this happened in and there were so many rumors floating around with the sole propose to do a Character Assassination of David Camm..

When this case first began I was sure that David was guilty but after taking out all the speculation, wild arse theory's and just getting down to the lack of evidence against David, it became clear that an 11 time convicted criminal Charles Boney and possible his girlfriend at the time were the ones responsible for this horrific crime

with all of that being said I truly hope the appeals court overturns this case once and for all and does it to where he can never be tried again..

If you visit justicefordavidcamm.com you can see the appellate court that was held in May 2008 and I think you will see that they were still unhappy with the way that this case was handled by both Floyd County Prosecutors and on top of that there are abuse of power, malicious prosecution, and perjury charges that can be filed on prosecutors, and expert witness's for the State..

It is time this charade stop and Davis freedom is returned

Kimmer

detectivewannabe
06-29-2009, 09:41 AM
You just got your wish Kimmer. They overturned his conviction Friday. I don't have time now, but I do believe he is guilty and yes I will go to the website you suggested and then you and I can discuss this more in detail. I also have the book so give me a few days.

dwb

Gozgals
06-29-2009, 10:13 AM
I too believe David is guilty and I'm sorry to hear his conviction has been overturned.


http://www.newsandtribune.com/local/local_story_177112303.html

3 p.m. UPDATE: David Camm's murder convictions overturned by Supreme Court

He was previously found guilty of killing family

By MATT THACKER
Matt.Thacker@newsandtribune.com

The Indiana Supreme Court overturned the conviction of David Camm in the deaths of his wife and two children and ordered a third trial.

Camm, 45, was convicted in 2002 and again in 2006 of murdering his wife Kimberly, 35, and their children, Bradley, 7, and Jill, 5, at their Georgetown home in 2000.

Boyz_Mum
06-29-2009, 10:38 AM
I too believed Camm to be guilty. Perhaps this 3rd trial can get to the truth, once and for all?

Thanks for the updates! :blowkiss:

nightfallgypsy
07-02-2009, 10:29 AM
I have followed this case from the night it happened. I also know people who are related to the victims and the defendant. For what it is worth, I think David deserves a new trial.
I have never felt David to be innocent, but the cops have tried and convicted him on trumped up charges. The man was smart enough to create an alibi for himself. He wasn't home when the killings occured. He planned it that way.
The S.A. needs to charge him with the crimes that he is guilty of. He didn't pull the trigger. Boney did that. The evidence shows this was a perp with a foot-fettish. I think David was more the "master-mind" behind the scenes.
Remember folks, David was tried and convicted in a court of law (1st trial)without the name of Charles Boney ever being mentioned. His clothes and prints were left behind right in the garage. No one wanted to talk about that or investigate this evidence because it was not directly linked to Camm.
Another fact that wasn't talked about much in the media is that he was divorced and had a child from an earlier marriage. He wasn't going to walk away from this a free man, He still had a child and responsibilities.
Take it for what it is worth, The justice system only works if the scales are balanced.

detectivewannabe
07-02-2009, 08:53 PM
I have followed this case from the night it happened. I also know people who are related to the victims and the defendant. For what it is worth, I think David deserves a new trial.
I have never felt David to be innocent, but the cops have tried and convicted him on trumped up charges. The man was smart enough to create an alibi for himself. He wasn't home when the killings occured. He planned it that way.
The S.A. needs to charge him with the crimes that he is guilty of. He didn't pull the trigger. Boney did that. The evidence shows this was a perp with a foot-fettish. I think David was more the "master-mind" behind the scenes.
Remember folks, David was tried and convicted in a court of law (1st trial)without the name of Charles Boney ever being mentioned. His clothes and prints were left behind right in the garage. No one wanted to talk about that or investigate this evidence because it was not directly linked to Camm.
Another fact that wasn't talked about much in the media is that he was divorced and had a child from an earlier marriage. He wasn't going to walk away from this a free man, He still had a child and responsibilities.
Take it for what it is worth, The justice system only works if the scales are balanced.


Oh, I completely agree. I never thought for one second that David pulled the trigger. I also believe he was the 'mastermind' behind this. Kinda "hit for hire" so to speak. I also believe he was not given a fair trail when the molestation was introduced. There is no concrete proof he did that to his daughter and it should have never been brought up. We have to give a fair and balanced trial and I hope he is convected a third time for the right reasons.

dwb

Houndacres
07-02-2009, 11:41 PM
I used to feel the same way, that he was guilty no matter what. However, after spending a huge amount of time reviewing the case, I can't say that anymore. I can't find a link between David and Boney. No doubt both trials were unfair and biased. I do find it rare that the Supreme Court would overturn a conviction, twice! I think David is guilty of many things, but not murder or being involved in murder. I still believe that Boney zoned in on Kim from Karem's meat market. I remember shopping there as a child. I have the utmost respect for Kim's father, Mr. Renn. And while many people want to punish David for other things, not related to the murders, I think it's more important to ensure that our justice system works appropriately. Floyd County can't afford another trial. While money shouldn't be a concern in the search for justice, how many times does it take to get it right? ( that would be for either a guilty or not guilty verdict, either way)

Houndacres
07-02-2009, 11:48 PM
Oh, I completely agree. I never thought for one second that David pulled the trigger. I also believe he was the 'mastermind' behind this. Kinda "hit for hire" so to speak. I also believe he was not given a fair trail when the molestation was introduced. There is no concrete proof he did that to his daughter and it should have never been brought up. We have to give a fair and balanced trial and I hope he is convected a third time for the right reasons.

dwb

JMO. . but I think that if David were going to do a "hit for hire" deal, he would have gone with someone more professional, as opposed to using Boney. If you check out Boney's rap sheet, it makes no sense that David would align himself with a low rate criminal such as Boney.

Kimmer
07-03-2009, 12:39 AM
For those who may know about this case, David Camm was a retired Indiana State Officer that in Sept, 2000 was charged with killing his wife Kim, and his kids Brad & Jill Camm....David was convicted of this horrendous crime, and a few years later the conviction was overturned by the Indiana Supreme Court, He was then re-tried for a 2nd time, during the 2nd re-trial new evidence was tested and found to belong to a 11 time convicted criminal by the name of Charles Darnell Boney and Charles Boney also admitted that he was at the crime scene when this family was slaughtered....The prosecutors where unwilling to admit that they had made a mistake in charging David Camm not once but twice, when David Camm was re-tried he was once again convicted...

Last week the Indiana Supreme Court once again overturned the 2nd conviction of David Camm....

Since this is a very fluid case, with more twists and turns than any case I have ever seen, I have decided to start a blog on this case, If you are interested in getting information about this case, please go to the blog and in the search box and type in David Camm and it will take you to the blog that I have started..

When this case first started I thought that David Camm was guilty, but over the past couple of years I have been doing alot of research and I now feel that David Camm is completely innocent and because of politics in the area that I live has been continually tried for a crime that he did not committ.....If you would like to know more about this case, or discuss this case please visit my blog....

Thank You,

Kimmer

MagicRose99
07-03-2009, 07:08 AM
Cam's thread is in the Trials forum:

48 Hours/ David Cam case/Indiana State trooper - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Boyz_Mum
07-03-2009, 08:57 AM
JMO. . but I think that if David were going to do a "hit for hire" deal, he would have gone with someone more professional, as opposed to using Boney. If you check out Boney's rap sheet, it makes no sense that David would align himself with a low rate criminal such as Boney.

I, at first, thought that David hired Boney.

You make an excellent point regarding that "theory".

Is there a reason, you believe, that Boney could have targeted the Camm family because of David's job with LE? Or do you believe Boney act is solely because he had some prior "infatuation or otherwise" with Karen?

As I said earlier, I do hope they can get to the truth this time around. I'm not sure what I believe about it all now.

Houndacres
07-03-2009, 11:38 AM
I, at first, thought that David hired Boney.

You make an excellent point regarding that "theory".

Is there a reason, you believe, that Boney could have targeted the Camm family because of David's job with LE? Or do you believe Boney act is solely because he had some prior "infatuation or otherwise" with Karen?

As I said earlier, I do hope they can get to the truth this time around. I'm not sure what I believe about it all now.

Hi Boyz Mum,
It's nice to see you here again!
IMO . . I think he targeted Kim Camm when he saw her at Karem's meat market. I think her sister is married to Mr. Karem and Kim often went to the market. Boney lived in this area at one time. The meat market, if I remember correctly, is located next to a convience store and is close to Knable's liquor store. This is a highly populated area, with banks and restaurants. It's right down the street from the hospital and close to the Target store and another shopping plaza. The area is 'busy' and people come and go unnoticed.
It was said that Boney told someone, another inmate I think, that he was going to 'get a cop'. Also, Kim's vehicle had a police sticker on it that could easily been seen by Boney. I often wondered if Boney knew who Kim was in advance of these crimes. I think it was stated that Boney's mother lived near the Camm residence area and Boney's car was seen that day parked at the end of the road that the Camm family lived on.
JMO. . but I think that he saw Kim at the store and that sparked his interest. I also think that he followed her and found out who she was and realized that she was married to a former police officer, whom he might have thought was still on the force at the time.
I have a lot of problems with having a third trial. Besides the obvious, ruining David's life, I don't think it's fair to put her family thru another trial. I think that Pros. Henderson and Faith are giving them false hopes. If they could have gotten a conviction using 'evidence', they would have done it in the first two trials. I can understand their feelings of wanting the guilty party to be punished, but I do think he is, Boney was sentenced to 225 years.
The other problem I have is that they would be going to trial again based on the same 'evidence' that was unsuccessful two times already, nothing new would be brought to the table. I don't know if it's a faulty case or if the investigation was that screwed up. I do know there was some evidence collected that was 'lost' before trial and never tested. There was also several pieces of evidence that were collected and were never tested before the first trial.
I think, in general, we at WS tend to examine the facts and evidence of cases and use this to base our opinion. But, the public eye doesn't usually work this way. You wouldn't believe some of the rumors that I heard about this case going around town. I think David was found guilty of these crimes in the public eye long before the first trial ever took place. While many people in our town don't care or won't admit it, if it were them, they would feel differently. If this is allowed to continue or happen without consequence, it could be anybody next time. I find that kinda scary!
Have a great day, Boyz Mum!!
HoundAcres:)

ETA: I just wanted to add that Camm's defense was privately funded for the first two trials. Because everything is gone now, a third defense would have to be funded by Floyd County.

Houndacres
07-03-2009, 11:59 AM
Remember folks, David was tried and convicted in a court of law (1st trial)without the name of Charles Boney ever being mentioned.

*snipped for space
Hi Nightfallgypsy,
I also explored the idea that David set this up. But then I had to ask myself, David was a law enforcement officer, why would he need to get a clean gun from Boney? Why would he even need to involve Boney? If they had planned this together, why isn't there any evidence that the two even met?
The reason David was convicted in the first trial without Boney is because the prosceutor told the jury that David molested his daughter. They also paraded a number of women before the jury that said they'd had affairs with David. This may be true, I don't know. But, that makes him a bad husband, not a murderer.

Kimmer
07-03-2009, 05:49 PM
I am aware that there has been a previous thread on this topic, but it has been a couple of years since there has been any real activity on that thread...And since the Indiana Supreme Court just again overturned his 2nd trial, this case is going to be heating up again, so for that reason I thought I would start a new thread to let others know about the recent activity on the case...

Kimmer

MagicRose99
07-04-2009, 09:21 AM
The thread is resurrected every time there is move on the case. There is current activity now.

Kimmer
07-04-2009, 01:42 PM
Well here are 2 very important questions that in my mind need to be answered, and from all of the investigating of this crime there is no evidence to support this.

1. Had Boney given David the gun wrapped in his sweatshirt as Boney has always claimed he did (and the sweatshirt did have gun oil on it also)..Why was there never ANY of David's DNA on that sweatshirt...There was not even touch DNA on that sweatshirt...So I feel comfortable saying that David never touched the item the gun was wrapped in..

2. Had David left the basketball game and went home and either killed his family or been a witness (that was close enough to his daughter to get High Velocity Spatter on his t-shirt) Then why was there no forensic evidence (IE: Blood, hair, fibers,GSR) found in David's pick-up truck....There is no way that this man was within 4 feet of his daughter when she was shot, as well as being in the garage when his wife and son were killed and him be able to get back in his vehicle and drive back to the church without transferring some forensic evidence into his truck..

These are just 2 questions out of several that I have, Since we have such good sleuthers on here can anyone make sense out of this lack of evidence?

Columbo
07-04-2009, 03:06 PM
JMO. . but I think that if David were going to do a "hit for hire" deal, he would have gone with someone more professional, as opposed to using Boney. If you check out Boney's rap sheet, it makes no sense that David would align himself with a low rate criminal such as Boney.

Maybe there were no better class or more professional hit men for hire? After all, what kind of person does this kind of work anyhow.

Houndacres
07-04-2009, 04:41 PM
Maybe there were no better class or more professional hit men for hire? After all, what kind of person does this kind of work anyhow.

Well, you're right, they'd all have to be pretty low to do something like this.

I still don't believe that David ever knew Boney. If David had known him, why did David set in jail for 4 1/2 years before his name was ever brought up? I think that had David been involved with Boney, he would have thrown his name out there in the beginning.

Kimmer, I didn't know that touch DNA was ever done on the shirt. That's interesting. Was this brought up at his 2nd trial? So Boney brings the gun to the house wrapped in his Backbone sweatshirt. The shirt has gun oil, but none of David's DNA. Yet, the shirt has Boney's girlfriend's DNA on it, but she leaves the country.
I'll say it again, it would be wrong to have a 3rd trial!

detectivewannabe
07-04-2009, 05:48 PM
If David had never met or had any other connection with boney, than david sitting in jail 4 1/2 years and NOT throwing his name out would make sense, right? I found it kinda odd that Boney would go to all that trouble of finding out things about Kimberly; like where she lived, when David would not be home, just to "get a cop". I'm not saying it is impossible to have boney to "happen" upon Kimberly just as she was driving in the garage and David not with her or even home for that matter. If there is no connection between David and Boney, we have to assume Boney waited with a gun and girlfriend outside (or inside?) for Kimberly and the kids to get home. I'm not saying impossible.

I thought I read somewhere that David and Boney went to school together? And I want to point out that while being an continuas adultress does not make you a murderer; it does put his character in a darker light.

dwb

detectivewannabe
07-04-2009, 05:52 PM
2. Had David left the basketball game and went home and either killed his family or been a witness (that was close enough to his daughter to get High Velocity Spatter on his t-shirt) Then why was there no forensic evidence (IE: Blood, hair, fibers,GSR) found in David's pick-up truck....There is no way that this man was within 4 feet of his daughter when she was shot, as well as being in the garage when his wife and son were killed and him be able to get back in his vehicle and drive back to the church without transferring some forensic evidence into his truck..

These are just 2 questions out of several that I have, Since we have such good sleuthers on here can anyone make sense out of this lack of evidence?[/quote]

Although I do not believe David pulled the trigger nor was a witness; simply saying that he is innocent because there was no transfer of forensic evidence in his truck would be like OJ Simpson is innocent because there was no transfer evidence in his bronco.

dwb

Bobbisangel
07-04-2009, 09:00 PM
I wonder if David Camm and this other guy weren't in on the murders together. Maybe Camm felt he couldn't murder his own kids so he brought this guy in to do that. I watched, I believe it was the second trial, and for whatever reason I thought he was guilty. Seems like there was a sweatshirt belonging to the other guy left at the scene and it had blood on it. I would like to keep up with this case. I wonder if the Pros will even bother with a third trial.

Houndacres
07-05-2009, 02:20 AM
They are talking about a 3rd trial. I think the defense said they were preparing as though there would be one. I don't think a third trial should happen. There was never any evidence that David and Boney even knew each other. The sweatshirt that Boney left at the crime scene didn't have any of David's DNA on it, only Boney's and his girlfriend's.

Bobbisangel
07-05-2009, 08:06 AM
They are talking about a 3rd trial. I think the defense said they were preparing as though there would be one. I don't think a third trial should happen. There was never any evidence that David and Boney even knew each other. The sweatshirt that Boney left at the crime scene didn't have any of David's DNA on it, only Boney's and his girlfriend's.

Was anything missing from the house? This Boney probably didn't know this family and so he wouldn't have gone to their home just to murder the wife and kids. He would have had to have gone their to steal or something. How did he know that David was at a ball game or some type of sports event from what I remember?

What does Boney say about it?

detectivewannabe
07-05-2009, 02:05 PM
Was anything missing from the house? This Boney probably didn't know this family and so he wouldn't have gone to their home just to murder the wife and kids. He would have had to have gone their to steal or something. How did he know that David was at a ball game or some type of sports event from what I remember?

What does Boney say about it?


Not trying to shoot down anyone's theories; but I do believe there are bad people out there who just, for no reason what so ever, kill. Just because nothing was stolen or distroyed doesn't mean that Boney couldn't have done this alone.(Hence the killing spree in South Carolina and the DC sniper) Although, I do not believe that was the case with the Camm's murders.

dwb

kbl8201
09-26-2009, 06:58 AM
I've been following this one too. Camm has a hearing Wed. asking to be released from jail till he is retried. The pros. has said he has new evidence in the case, supposedly an admission of guilt to someone unspecified.

http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2004/11/16/news/new_albany_tribune/news01.txt

Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson announced yesterday that he will retry the case based on new information and a confidential informant who has come forward. Henderson made the announcement yesterday afternoon amid a crowd of reporters and many of Camm's family members.

http://www.news-tribune.net/articles/2004/11/17/news/new_albany_tribune/news08.txt

Floyd County Prosecutor Keith Henderson filed an amended probable cause affidavit that, among other things, points to possible molestation of Jill Camm as a motive. The affidavit states that the young girl had "blunt trauma to the vagina that was consistent with sexual molestation." Indiana State Police Det. Gary Gilbert, lead investigator in the case, also stated in the affidavit that he interviewed a medical expert who advised that she studied Jill's autopsy "and came to the conclusion that the trauma to Jill Camm's vaginal area is consistent with" sexual abuse.

Gilbert also stated numerous sexual devices were found in the master bedroom of the Camm home. He also stated that a cover was found on David Camm's bed in the master bedroom that had sperm of David Camm and body fluids from Jill Camm.

The affidavit also speaks to a confidential informant in the investigation. Henderson did not give many details on the informant, other than it was someone who had recently spoken to investigators. In the affidavit, Gilbert stated that "During my investigation, I received information from a confidential informant that advised me that David Camm told him that Camm shot and killed his wife and two children."

~~~~~~~~~

The defense filed discovery motions today arguing that the pros. failed to disclose the name of that witness and other things. I'll post a link when I locate it.

as someone with knowledge in this area, unless the "ci" was wearing awire, the guy/girl is paid by the state (thru either mone or leinency) to lie for them.

twall
12-05-2009, 08:17 AM
Prosecutor announces there will be a third trial for David Camm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejESCnVhVhc

The request to the Indiana Supreme Court to review the appeal again was turned down on Nov. 30.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/21762436/detail.html

D. Camm is currently incarcerated and will go before a judge for a bond hearing soon.

http://www.fox41.com/global/story.asp?s=11613805

kbl8201
12-08-2009, 03:08 AM
Prosecutor announces there will be a third trial for David Camm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejESCnVhVhc

The request to the Indiana Supreme Court to review the appeal again was turned down on Nov. 30.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/21762436/detail.html

D. Camm is currently incarcerated and will go before a judge for a bond hearing soon.

http://www.fox41.com/global/story.asp?s=11613805


unless he can get a new judge this time i ooubt third time is the charm.

dont expect bond to be set either, given the debacle over his release last time.

Kimmer
12-28-2009, 01:05 AM
Well there is another development in this all be wild case, Current Prosecutor Keith Henderson has penned a book and signed a book deal while this case was still active and under appeal before the 2nd trial was overturned....Now the defense has filed a motion to have Henderson removed from this case and a Special Prosecutor brought in....The very next day after this motion was filed Henderson stated he would try this case for the 3rd time....I have been trying to find out from David's family as well as his defense team if a special prosecutor is brought in would it then be up to them to decide if it will be tried for a 3rd time, but I have yet to get an answer to that question....Since I am close to this area and getting the regular media updates I will be spending more time on this case....All I can hope and pray for is that at some point the Floyd County team will finally realize that they have been wrong all along and let David go free, but with as much money as they have put into the last 2 trials I have a feeling that dropping all the charges would be political suicide for Henderson and Faith....If anyone has any questions about this case feel free to PM me and I will do my best to answer you..

Also thought I would let you know that I have spoken with David's family about me writing a book on this case once David is aquitted or the charges are dropped, they seem very responsive to the idea but they want to wait until everything is over as to not make any of the sitting prosecutors or judges mad and make the decision made during the 3rd trial not go in David's favor..

For those that may not know much about this case there are 2 places to get really good info on this case.

1. justicefordavidcamm.com

2. 48hrs Murder on Lockhart Road---You can google this and it will show you all the way thru trial 2.

Boyz_Mum
12-28-2009, 08:03 AM
Thanks for the updates, Kimmer.

kbl8201
12-29-2009, 12:06 AM
of course henderson wants to retry it himself.......this is his career meal ticket.

Kimmer
01-31-2010, 02:37 PM
as someone with knowledge in this area, unless the "ci" was wearing awire, the guy/girl is paid by the state (thru either mone or leinency) to lie for them.

During the 2nd Camm trial the prosecutors used 4 jailhouse snitches and they all tesified in one manner or another that David confessed to this crime...I do not beleive one bit of it..One of the snitches was let out of jail and put on house arrest and then cut off his ankle monitor and has been a fugitive ever since....My feeling on this are the only people that the proscutors want to interview are people that will help them continue this farce of a case, They never interviewed the 11 ballplayers that were with David the night of the murders...They never interviewed the previous victims of Charles Boney and they never used any of Boney's previous victims in Boney's trial, that was because they did not want any of that information to be on the record as it would then appear that Boney did this crime alone, or with his then girlfriend whos blood was also on the sweatshirt and was mixed with Kim Camm's blood....There is so much wrong in this case....When the 2nd trial was overturned the proper thing to do would have been to have admitted there mistake and dropped all the charges against David....And as far as the bedspread, the prosecutors have tried like hell to get this into 2 trials and have yet to be able to do so, One of the main reasons is because the sperm that was found on it was mixed with Kim's dna (David's wife)...The dna of Jills was just that DNA not bodily fluids..If they would have tested the bedspread for Brad's DNA I would imagine it would be on there also....All kids get in bed with there parents from time to time that does not mean that they were being molested by there parents...I pray that #3 does not have any of the accusations that David molested Jill being as that has been one of the main reasons that #1 and #2 were overturned by the ISP...But the only way the prosecutors will get a 3rd conviction is if they continue to do a Character Assination of David Camm so I unfortunatly doubt that #3 will be much different.

kbl8201
02-01-2010, 04:03 AM
During the 2nd Camm trial the prosecutors used 4 jailhouse snitches and they all tesified in one manner or another that David confessed to this crime...I do not beleive one bit of it..One of the snitches was let out of jail and put on house arrest and then cut off his ankle monitor and has been a fugitive ever since....My feeling on this are the only people that the proscutors want to interview are people that will help them continue this farce of a case, They never interviewed the 11 ballplayers that were with David the night of the murders...They never interviewed the previous victims of Charles Boney and they never used any of Boney's previous victims in Boney's trial, that was because they did not want any of that information to be on the record as it would then appear that Boney did this crime alone, or with his then girlfriend whos blood was also on the sweatshirt and was mixed with Kim Camm's blood....There is so much wrong in this case....When the 2nd trial was overturned the proper thing to do would have been to have admitted there mistake and dropped all the charges against David....And as far as the bedspread, the prosecutors have tried like hell to get this into 2 trials and have yet to be able to do so, One of the main reasons is because the sperm that was found on it was mixed with Kim's dna (David's wife)...The dna of Jills was just that DNA not bodily fluids..If they would have tested the bedspread for Brad's DNA I would imagine it would be on there also....All kids get in bed with there parents from time to time that does not mean that they were being molested by there parents...I pray that #3 does not have any of the accusations that David molested Jill being as that has been one of the main reasons that #1 and #2 were overturned by the ISP...But the only way the prosecutors will get a 3rd conviction is if they continue to do a Character Assination of David Camm so I unfortunatly doubt that #3 will be much different.

i worked on the kirstin blaise lobato case in las vegas. i can first hand tell you, prosecutors will never ever admit a mistake if they dont have to. i have seeen them pull every dirty trick in the book. they once clamed 'well it's not proven that he raped this other woman' to try to claim she and her buddies had no reason to kill him. then they turned around and said 'yeah he's a rapist, so he must have tried to rape miss lobato' to us it as a motive against HER.
the most unbelievable thing in this case was how they dropped the charges against him only to reisntate and add new ones in the county where the case had already been moved from bias. if that wasnt misconduct i dont know what is.

Kimmer
02-03-2010, 01:26 AM
I would really like to get some of the good people on Websleuths to help me sleuth this case...I have been working on it for the past 3 years, and this is probably the only case on here where the person that has been accused is actually an innocent man sitting in prision for just coming home to find his family slaughtered....Anyone who would like to help me with this case would be greatly appreciated..

cluciano63
02-13-2010, 01:30 AM
I'm sorry, but it is only my opinion, have followed this case for years and i am convinced both juries got it right...i don't mean to be cruel to those who believe in him, but i just do not. i think he not only belongs in prison but that he should own up and keep his family from having to spend and spend and spend to keep paying lawyers, etc...Kim's family deserves him to be a man for once, instead of a whiner who did nothing but hit on every woman he came in contact with when he had his tough-guy uniform. Of course he would not ever admit that he had met Boney-that would seal it for good. Boney had no motive to kill anyone, he is a crazed pervert and a thug, but i cannot imagine he would know anything about Kim's schdule without a little help from David...again, sorry, but i will never believe he is innocent, no matter how much money is spent by state and his family...

twall
02-13-2010, 11:09 PM
I'm sorry, but it is only my opinion, have followed this case for years and i am convinced both juries got it right...i don't mean to be cruel to those who believe in him, but i just do not. i think he not only belongs in prison but that he should own up and keep his family from having to spend and spend and spend to keep paying lawyers, etc...Kim's family deserves him to be a man for once, instead of a whiner who did nothing but hit on every woman he came in contact with when he had his tough-guy uniform. Of course he would not ever admit that he had met Boney-that would seal it for good. Boney had no motive to kill anyone, he is a crazed pervert and a thug, but i cannot imagine he would know anything about Kim's schdule without a little help from David...again, sorry, but i will never believe he is innocent, no matter how much money is spent by state and his family...

I agree.
I have lived my whole life in Indiana and to me it is a shame the IN Appeals Court has over-turned his conviction twice and IMO the reasons for doing it are lame. Camm's adultery and possible molestation of Jill are motives for him wanting his family dead. It makes me wonder if someone on the appeals panel isn't being paid off by Camm's family. He gets another trial-all I have to say is 3rd times a charm. Buh-Bye!

JMO

cluciano63
02-13-2010, 11:18 PM
i hope they convict again...this is ridiculous.
can anyone who defends him explain why he would call his wife's job the very next morning to ask about how to get her $ and pension? it's not as though he needed it for the kids...i am sure he would say he wasn't thinking clearly...but he appaerntly called at 7:30AM before they were even open-

but the high impact blood spatter can't be explained away...you cannot get those microscopic dots of blood by "cradlling" someome covered in blood as he claimed...
i am so sick of this case and imagine anyone lviing in that start and paying taxes must be that much more so...

kbl8201
02-14-2010, 01:23 AM
beyond a reasonable doubt obviously has no place in america. neither do alibi witnesses, exclusionary dna, a supsect that says 'well if you find my dna there i must have done it'
no, instead cases are built soley on affairs, junk science, bogus implications from convicted felons, jailhouse snitches who only lie to broker better deals in there own cases........bogus molestation claims that have not one shred of credibility.

cluciano63
02-14-2010, 01:31 PM
resaonable doubt is key...not beyond all doubt...
most murders do not have eyewitnesses but are still tried
if we had to go by only forensics, criimes would never have been solved before the 1990's. sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one.
i don't think the molestation allegations should have been allowed in first trial, they had not been proven to any degree, but they were not needed, IMO only.

Houndacres
02-14-2010, 06:08 PM
I lived in Floyd County, the same county David and Kim lived in, most of my life and wanted David to be guilty . . . but after reading everything about this case, I could not convict him. I could convict him of being a poor husband and an arrogant power-pushing cop, but not of Kim and the kids' murders.
There is no evidence that he even knew Boney. There is no factual evidence that Jill was even molested. There were experts that testified that the blood stains were transfer stains, not blow back spatter. I don't like him, but I don't think he's guilty. I especially don't think Floyd County taxpayers should pay for another trial. As for Camm's family paying for the 2nd conviction to be overturned .. . . IMO they don't have what it takes to pay for anything anymore, let alone to buy someone to overturn the conviction. There is reason to believe, because of the connection to Karem's meat market, that he knew Kim's schedule.

Houndacres
02-14-2010, 06:11 PM
As for the insurance policy, from what I read, David did not bring that up or call about it. He called Kim's place of employment to tell them of the terrible murders and Kim's boss brought it up to Dave, in that he would check it out. David did not call about the money.

Houndacres
02-14-2010, 06:13 PM
In my opinion, during the second trial, the molestation of Jill was thrown in (after the pros. was warned by the higher court NOT to bring it up) because they didn't have a strong case against David. I'm no David Camm fan, but I don't feel he is guilty of these murders. The man guilty of these murders is already behind bars IMO.

kbl8201
02-15-2010, 01:00 AM
resaonable doubt is key...not beyond all doubt...
most murders do not have eyewitnesses but are still tried
if we had to go by only forensics, criimes would never have been solved before the 1990's. sometimes the most obvious answer is the right one.
i don't think the molestation allegations should have been allowed in first trial, they had not been proven to any degree, but they were not needed, IMO only.

that's pretty ironic considering that the second jury said the theory that he molested his daughter was what made them find him guilty. mind you the prosecution still hasnt presented any evidence of that......just the theory of it.

Kimmer
02-22-2010, 07:48 PM
As for the insurance policy, from what I read, David did not bring that up or call about it. He called Kim's place of employment to tell them of the terrible murders and Kim's boss brought it up to Dave, in that he would check it out. David did not call about the money.

From the court transcripts that I have on this case, David called Ageon (Kim's Employer) to tell them that she had been murdered....It was at this time that the Rudy Gernert stated that he would have the Human Resource Dept get back with David about the insurance policies due to the fact that he knew it would be expensive to bury 3 family members, as well as the funeral home would need the insurance information when David went to make the burial arragements....This is another one of the rumors that the Prosecutors want the public to beleive, and apparently several have...

cluciano63
02-22-2010, 11:23 PM
ok, will have to agree to disagree on this one. this whole board is about personal opinions and mine won't change, no matter what the next set of 12 jurors say. There are some cases that won't ever be proven to everyone's satisfaction. That is why we have juries and this man, getting a third chance, is being given every benefit of the doubt, so be it, that is the system.

Kimmer
02-23-2010, 03:39 AM
ok, will have to agree to disagree on this one. this whole board is about personal opinions and mine won't change, no matter what the next set of 12 jurors say. There are some cases that won't ever be proven to everyone's satisfaction. That is why we have juries and this man, getting a third chance, is being given every benefit of the doubt, so be it, that is the system.

I have no problem respecting you opinion, I just happen to have a different one, In the very beginning of this case I to thought that David was guilty but that was when I was going by my local media as well as what the prosecutors were saying, once the case was overturned and a 2nd trial was happening, that is when Charles Boney came onto the radar, It was at this point that I really started digging into the case, And after reading the court transcripts, It became clear to ME that this case was screwed up from jump street, I took a long while to really dig into the case in order to satisfy my own curiosity....This is when I realized there was an innocent man sitting in prison in my State, (not that he is the only one either) But what really got me fired up was the fact that Charles Boney was able to run free in my community for almost 5 years while the Prosecutor tried to do everything possible to keep from running this mans DNA thru the system and the fact that the sweatshirt came from the Dept of Corrections that should have been the first thing that was done, But because Stan Faith had been personal friends with Boney's mother, and had defended him during his Bloomington Ind arrest it became apparent that Faith as sitting Prosecutor did not want this information coming out, How would it look that he defended this man and even gave him a ride back to Floyd County only to have Boney slaughter an innocent family, that would have been political suicide, And the case has just continued from there....But as I said in the beginning I have no problem respecting your opinion and I would like for the people who think David is guilty to also respect mine.

Texas Mist
11-24-2010, 11:39 AM
Judge to rule on prosecutor in David Camm case

Wednesday, the judge will hear whether prosecutor Keith Henderson should be removed from the case because of a conflict of interest.
.................
Henderson had once arranged a book deal based on the case, but says he's since stepped away from it.

http://www.fox41.com/Global/story.asp?S=13560207

Whocanitbenow
10-11-2011, 09:43 PM
Okay I am new here, So I want to make sure I am not breaking rules by bumping this old thread.. But it appears his third trial is still on hold? This is the most recent link I can find.

http://www.whas11.com/news/crimetracker/David-Camms-third-murder-trial-put-on-hold-119723094.html

joe jones
10-12-2011, 11:23 AM
my opinion on his guilt changes constantly, I am now at the point where I fall more towards him being innocent, Boney and Camm in a conspiracy just doesn't fit for me anymore,

joe jones
10-17-2011, 10:45 AM
http://www.fox19.com/story/15620144/ex-trooper-wants-prosecutor-out-over-book-deal

defence still arguing over removing the prosecutor due to possible conflict of interest, I agree that he has a conflict of interest, I also think that he has had 2 goes at trying Camm getting a conviction and then being reversed, to me that says he should not be the one trying Camm for the 3rd time as to me it seems obvious his trial strategy is wrong,

and I think a fresh prosecutor may take a look at the evidence and view it differently, maybe a new prosecutor would not even retry him

twall
11-27-2011, 02:51 AM
http://www.fox19.com/story/15620144/ex-trooper-wants-prosecutor-out-over-book-deal

defence still arguing over removing the prosecutor due to possible conflict of interest, I agree that he has a conflict of interest, I also think that he has had 2 goes at trying Camm getting a conviction and then being reversed, to me that says he should not be the one trying Camm for the 3rd time as to me it seems obvious his trial strategy is wrong,

and I think a fresh prosecutor may take a look at the evidence and view it differently, maybe a new prosecutor would not even retry him

The Indiana Supreme Court ruled in favor of Camm. Keith Henderson is currently off the case. The state has the right to appeal the ruling so this may drag on for awhile.

Link to article

http://www.wdrb.com/story/16044378/prosecutor-keith-henderson-is-off-the-david-camm-case

Link to ruling

http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/11151101jgb.pdf

Keith Henderson did not prosecute Camm in the first trial. Stan Faith did. Henderson won the election after Camm's first trial and tried him in the second trial.

joe jones
11-27-2011, 12:46 PM
thanks for the update, it has been dragging on forever already, 2 trials, 2 reversals, and Boney in the mix,

I still often wonder if they had tested the sweatshirt pre the first trial whether Camm would ever have been tried,

at the moment I have fallen off the fence completely and I now think Camm had nothing to do with the murders, but I have flip flopped over his involvement from the outset so who knows if I will be jumping back on the fence

and thanks for correcting me over the first prosecutor

joe jones
02-21-2012, 08:00 PM
http://www.wlky.com/news/30478418/detail.html

prosecutor speaks after being removed from Camm prosecution, and refuses to go into details about a possible ethics violation

joe jones
02-21-2012, 08:05 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120215/NEWS02/302150077/Prosecutor-Keith-Henderson-officially-off-David-Camm-murder-case?odyssey=tab%7Cmostpopular%7Ctext%7CFRONTPAGE

Judge will now appoint special prosecutor, who will have to take his/her time to get up to speed on the case, and who knows maybe it will be decided not to prosecute him again they do have that option,

I think this is one for the defence, fresh eyes may see the evidence differently, over time I know I have changed my position and I now think it is highly likely Boney acted alone

joe jones
02-23-2012, 08:27 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120223/NEWS02/302230039/Special-prosecutor-named-David-Camm-murder-case

special prosecutor appointed, I wonder if he will try to pseak to Boney - he should do so

joe jones
02-27-2012, 05:19 PM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/16996137/camm-waits-for-third-murder-trial-in-evansville-jail

Camm moved to new jail as he awaits third trial, I am suprised he wasn't given bail

twall
03-11-2012, 03:47 AM
Camm's lawyers seek to bar prosecutor's help

NEW ALBANY, Ind. (WTW) — Lawyers for a former Indiana state trooper facing his third trial on charges of killing his family don't want the attorney who prosecuted him last time to have anything to do with the upcoming trial.

http://www.coshoctontribune.com/usatoday/article/38768797?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CFrontpage %7Cp

Another article on the same subject

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20120309/NEWS02/303090109/David-Camm-attorneys-ask-prosecutor-barred-from-helping-replacement?odyssey=mod%7Cnewswell%7Ctext%7CHome%7 Cp

twall
07-17-2012, 07:16 AM
Update
Camm wants out on bond while awaiting his 3rd trial, trial will be moved north of Indianapolis (if it is close enough to me I would like to attend), judge has yet to rule on both issues. eta-next hearing date is Aug. 13

12 years of legal fights weigh on David & Kim Camm's families

ROCKPORT, IN (WAVE) - It was back in a very familiar place for David Camm Monday -- a courtroom where he is moving toward a third trial for killing his family in Georgetown, Indiana in September 2000.

In Spencer County, attorneys argued about whether Camm should be released on bond, but it was very clear that after all this time, even a routine hearing like that, is another grinding step for all of those involved.

http://www.wave3.com/story/18986032/12-years-of-legal-fights-weigh-on-david-kim-camms-families

twall
07-17-2012, 07:42 AM
Recent David Camm interview-there are 4 parts, follow the links.

http://www.wlky.com/news/local-news/david-camm/David-Camm-The-Exclusive-Interview/-/10124124/15471078/-/4uvx08/-/index.html

joe jones
07-17-2012, 02:00 PM
Thanks so much for posting the links to the interview, I think there is enough reasonable doubt for a NG verdict, I am unsure as to whether Camm had any involvement in the murders (think it is more likely he did not but can't fall completely off the fence into he is innocent)

I could never have voted to convict him, and I have always wondered if Boney's DNA had been found before the first trial if Camm would ever have been tried, Boney was only able to come up with the conspiracy theory because Camm had already been convicted,

and even then his story has more holes in it than swiss cheese

joe jones
07-17-2012, 02:03 PM
http://www.wave3.com/story/18982850/2012/07/09/judge-fails-to-rule-on-camms-request-for-release-on-bond

judge has 30 days to decide if Camm gets out on bond,

joe jones
08-05-2012, 06:27 PM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/19169760/bond-denied-for

bond denied for Camm,

wonder what new prosecutors will tell jury motive was, as the two times he was tried previously he won his appeals on the fact that the motives (adultery and alleged sexual abuse of his daughter) should not have been presented to the jury,

twall
08-13-2012, 07:29 AM
Hearing today for Camm

Hearing Monday afternoon could decide location of David Camm trial

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Hearing-Monday-afternoon-could-decide-location-of-David-Camm-trial-165948566.html

Venue hearing scheduled today in Camm case

http://www.wdrb.com/story/19258933/hearing-set-for-tomorrow-in-camm-case

riolove
09-30-2012, 02:31 AM
what is going on at this point?? i have been trying to keep up, but there are just so many cases to follow :/ has his third trial started? ended? i can't believe kim camm's family has been going through this for over 12 years now....

joe jones
09-30-2012, 09:14 AM
what is going on at this point?? i have been trying to keep up, but there are just so many cases to follow :/ has his third trial started? ended? i can't believe kim camm's family has been going through this for over 12 years now....

third trial not started, no date has yet been set, he applied for bail but it was denied,

I am wondering what the state will say his motive was, and I think I have fallen off the fence to think he probably was not involved in the murders of his family

marycarney
10-28-2012, 11:51 PM
ACK!!! I just heard that this trial is going to take place HERE!! The courthouse is two minutes from our home, and my youngest works part-time at a restaurant across the street. This is going to be a flipping circus!

http://reporter.net/local/x1400201614/Murder-trial-lands-in-Boone-County

joe jones
10-29-2012, 01:17 PM
thanks for the update, so the third trial will be just post the 13 year anniversary of the murders,

I am hoping for a NG this time round, I do not think there is enough evidence to reach BARD,

twall
11-06-2012, 08:39 AM
ACK!!! I just heard that this trial is going to take place HERE!! The courthouse is two minutes from our home, and my youngest works part-time at a restaurant across the street. This is going to be a flipping circus!

http://reporter.net/local/x1400201614/Murder-trial-lands-in-Boone-County

You may just find yourself on the jury!

Lebanon is a nice city, we bought a truck at a local dealer there a few years ago. I would like to attend the trial but it is too far away for me, at least a 2 hour drive one way. :(

joe jones
12-30-2012, 03:33 PM
http://newsandtribune.com/davidcamm/x964854072/Court-Prosecutors-will-give-information-on-Boney-meetings

defence motions before the new retrial, glad to see the defence are still investigating and challenging the Boney evidence

Chi
01-06-2013, 02:18 PM
Interesting article on the price of justice in the Camm case:

They have hired forensics experts, notably Manassas, Va.-based Academy Group, for $350 an hour, to review the case. The consulting firm has billed for at least 104 hours and $36,500, according to auditor’s records, but Kammen said late last month that he has since “fired” the firm. He declined to say why.

Much more here:

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130102/NEWS10/301030003/

believe09
01-06-2013, 04:24 PM
Interesting article on the price of justice in the Camm case:



Much more here:

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130102/NEWS10/301030003/

Still, Heavrin and Bush agree that paying to resolve the murders of Kimberly, Brad and Jill Camm is the right thing to do.“In the end, we need to remember it’s not about the bills,” Bush said. “It’s about the deaths.”

From your link....Cant the DOJ offset some of this? I mean, this is a special circumstances murder I would think. Murder for hire, first degree murder, murdered children....

believe09
01-06-2013, 04:28 PM
There seems to be grant money available from the DOJ-I am sure the county has already applied for it. This reminds me of the FICA trial in OC FL-some of the defense expert expenses were truly impressive.

http://www.justice.gov/business/

Chi
01-07-2013, 08:17 AM
I'm surprised that Camm has had two convictions overturned, mainly because I find the key evidence that convicted him to be so powerful and the affairs/molestation to be minor in light of the forensics.

Rob Crowell, the jury foreman in Camm's second trial, says he isn't surprised by the state Supreme Court's ruling, but he is upset.

Crowell says he is disappointed that the court chose to overturn what he believed was a calm, rational, well deliberated decision by him and his fellow jurors.

The last time Crowell was in the public eye was in 2006, shortly after he and 11 others found Camm guilty of killing his wife and two children. Now that decision has been overturned, Crowell says he has "deep sympathies for the Renns (Kim Camm's) family. I can't imagine what they are going through with this, with this decision."

The Indiana Supreme Court ruled that evidence introduced during the second trial suggesting Camm molested his daughter, Jill, may have unduly influenced the jury.

Crowell said it helped pinpoint a timeline, but did not lead to the conviction. "It eliminated the possibility that there was the sexual motive for the murders, which we considered to be the strongest story line from the defense on the motive of Charles Boney," he said. "We didn't think he was there by accident. He didn't just stumble across that house in the middle of nowhere because he was arbitrarily a killer. We were trying to understand what happened."

Crowell said the jury believed Boney served as an accomplice and Camm as the triggerman.

Crowell's entire statement at link:

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=10609090

joe jones
01-23-2013, 04:41 PM
http://www.wave3.com/story/20661668/latest-evidence-in-third-david-camm-murder-trial-focused-on-charles-boney

pre trial motions

joe jones
03-11-2013, 09:51 AM
http://www.whas11.com/news/local/David-Camm--196844271.html

back in court for a hearing pre the next trial,

joe jones
03-11-2013, 08:16 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130311/NEWS02/303110086/1001/David-Camm-lawyers-prosecutor-argue-over-Charles-Boney-testimony-next-murder-trial?nclick_check=1

Boney will feature heavily again at Camm retrial

joe jones
03-12-2013, 09:42 AM
http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Untested-evidence-Boney-focal-points-of-Camm-pre-trial-hearing-197232331.html

now it seems the state will call Boney to testify, I wonder if he will do so and what they may have offered him,

Chi
03-12-2013, 09:53 AM
http://www.whas11.com/news/local/Untested-evidence-Boney-focal-points-of-Camm-pre-trial-hearing-197232331.html

now it seems the state will call Boney to testify, I wonder if he will do so and what they may have offered him,

Boney's appeals are over, and he will die in state prison. There really isn't anything the prosecution can give him.

He has nothing to lose or gain.... from a legal standpoint.

joe jones
03-12-2013, 11:46 AM
Boney's appeals are over, and he will die in state prison. There really isn't anything the prosecution can give him.

He has nothing to lose or gain.... from a legal standpoint.

there is a huge amount of things that could be done for him, he could be moved to a prison of his choice if that was something he wanted, he could be given more priviliges in jail,

the state can make his life in prison much easier if they have to offer him an inducement in order to get him to testify,

he has always been firm in his decision to never testify under oath, he refused to testify in the second re trial, it will be like shooting fish in a barrel when a defence attorney gets him on the witness stand and vigorously cross examines him, his story changes from each telling in both minor and major details,

I look forward to the day that he is finally cross examined and a jury gets to actually hear him speak,

joe jones
04-20-2013, 11:21 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130419/NEWS02/304190128/David-Camm-case-Lawyers-accuse-each-other-delays?nclick_check=1

possible delay to his third trial

Cherry
05-08-2013, 12:37 PM
http://www.whas11.com/news/indiana/David-Camm-hearing-continues-in-Spencer-Co--206595531.html

Camm case in the news today in prep for trial in August.

joe jones
05-08-2013, 09:12 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130508/NEWS02/305080099/Additional-testing-allowed-David-Camm-s-shirt?nclick_check=1

evidence being retested

Chi
05-13-2013, 07:38 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130508/NEWS02/305080099/Additional-testing-allowed-David-Camm-s-shirt?nclick_check=1

evidence being retested

From the article:

Prosecutors have pointed to what they described as high-velocity blood splatter on Camm’s T-shirt — and a tiny, heart-shaped piece of bone from Jill Camm’s skull — as crucial evidence to show that Camm was close by when the fatal shots were fired.

So now there is a piece of Jill's Camm's skull on the shirt?

I suppose Camm's defense will try to say that was also "transfer"??

IMO the evidence of Camm being the shooter is overwhelming. I don't think he should have had the prior convictions reversed either. JMO. It's a shame what it is costing tax payers to keep this triple murderer in prison.

twall
06-30-2013, 07:57 AM
The afternoon hearing mainly centered on witnesses whom prosecutors and the defense attorneys asked the judge to exclude from the trial. Levco, for instance, questioned why defense lawyers needed to call Florida grief expert Sally Karioth.

Kammen and co-counsel Stacy Uliana said they expect detectives and police officers will describe how unusually Camm acted after the deaths. Uliana said they’d like to counter with an expert who would discuss what is normal for someone who has found his family murdered. “She’s essential to our case,” Uliana said.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130624/NEWS10/306240034/Lawyers-argue-over-who-should-testify-during-David-Camm-s-third-murder-trial

Anyone that watched the Anthony case this name will ring a bell.

twall
06-30-2013, 07:57 AM
http://www.whas11.com/news/indiana/Camm-appears-at-pre-trial-hearing-ahead-of-August-trial-212802311.html

joe jones
07-17-2013, 12:20 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130716/NEWS02/307160072/David-Camm-murder-trial-delayed-week?nclick_check=1

trial delayed for a week

kimbella
07-19-2013, 06:21 PM
I think Camm's guilty as sin. I believe he met Boney at a prior pick-up basketball game and possibly collaborated with him to commit the murders OR just asked Boney to come to his house while/after he committed the murders, all the while planning to frame Boney for it by planting Boney's sweatshirt at the scene (not knowing that Boney's dna, etc wasn't in the system at the time). I think Camm offered Boney money for his assistance, whatever that was, and Boney accepted.

That's why in his Camm's first interviews, he kept telling investigators that there was someone else who did it that they needed to look for.

I know that Boney has a criminal history, but I don't think he could have killed children. I've heard it theorized that he followed Kim and the kids home to rob them. Yes, he had committed armed robberies before, but I just can't see him killing kids.

I went to high school with Camm's daughter from his first marriage. My aunt was close friends with Camm's ex-wife at the time and they would spend hours together every week during their kids' after-school practices. His ex said one of the most difficult things she ever had to do was ask her daughter if Camm had abused her too (she said no). However, his daughter has sat with the prosecution and Kim's family at the trials.

High velocity blood spatter shouldn't be that difficult to prove/disprove. I've been near pumpkins when my husband's family blows them up and shoots at them (rednecks). There are tiny little fragments of pumpkin guts that get stuck in our clothing. The way they are embedded in our clothes is just different that if we'd rubbed pumpkin innards against us.

I really don't see why the molestation of Jill or Camm's affairs were reason to overturn the first two verdicts. Either he was guilty or not, and TWO sets of juries found him guilty.

twall
08-02-2013, 08:13 AM
New DNA evidence could help Camm’s defense in trial

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/New-DNA-evidence-could-help-Camms-defense-in-trial--218043691.html

Don't see how this could help Camm's case. I don't think anyone doubts Boney was involved in the crime. I am unsure if Camm was or not. That is the question I would like answered. JMO

meanmaryjean
08-02-2013, 08:44 PM
This new trial is being held literally a mile from my home- but there is surprisingly little in the local press.

joe jones
08-04-2013, 11:36 AM
New DNA evidence could help Camm’s defense in trial

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/New-DNA-evidence-could-help-Camms-defense-in-trial--218043691.html

Don't see how this could help Camm's case. I don't think anyone doubts Boney was involved in the crime. I am unsure if Camm was or not. That is the question I would like answered. JMO

Boney has said he never touched Kim, all he said he did was trip over her shoes and he picked them up and placed them on top of the car, if his DNA is on her then he had to have touched her the night she and her children were murdered, this means the defence can argue he is sole murderer not Camm as they will argue he attacked Kim by grabbing/touching her and he then escalated his attack by shooting and killing her and her kids as she would have reported him for the attack and he did not wish to leave living witnesses

it will be important to find out where his DNA was found on her body,

Cherry
08-04-2013, 11:47 AM
I still can't believe a 3rd trial for this killer. Does anyone know if there will be live coverage again? I know I watched one of these trials and feel he is 100% guilty. I guess I will tan and listen to 48 hrs to catch up again, but would love to know if a live feed will be in the works. If anyone finds out or knows, please post! I try to log back in and thank but sometimes life just doesn't allow for it. So Thanks in Advance!

Cherry
08-04-2013, 11:48 AM
This new trial is being held literally a mile from my home- but there is surprisingly little in the local press.

Are you going to attend and tweet for us? :) :fence:

meanmaryjean
08-04-2013, 12:54 PM
Are you going to attend and tweet for us? :) :fence:

Well, I work nights and sleep during the day. Wonder if they would mind if I brought a cot in????

PLUS I snore.....

twall
08-06-2013, 10:49 AM
I still can't believe a 3rd trial for this killer. Does anyone know if there will be live coverage again? I know I watched one of these trials and feel he is 100% guilty. I guess I will tan and listen to 48 hrs to catch up again, but would love to know if a live feed will be in the works. If anyone finds out or knows, please post! I try to log back in and thank but sometimes life just doesn't allow for it. So Thanks in Advance!

No still photography or video allowed in Indiana courtrooms so no live feed. Wish I could go but I am about 2 hrs. away.

twall
08-06-2013, 10:57 AM
Boney has said he never touched Kim, all he said he did was trip over her shoes and he picked them up and placed them on top of the car, if his DNA is on her then he had to have touched her the night she and her children were murdered, this means the defence can argue he is sole murderer not Camm as they will argue he attacked Kim by grabbing/touching her and he then escalated his attack by shooting and killing her and her kids as she would have reported him for the attack and he did not wish to leave living witnesses

it will be important to find out where his DNA was found on her body,

I have not seen any reports of Boney's DNA being found on Kim's body, just clothing items that belonged to her and Jill.

~snip~
Richard Eikelenboom, who owns Independent Forensic Services, said that Boney’s DNA was found near the cuff of Kimberly Camm's shirt, on the stomach area of the shirt worn by 5-year-old Jill Camm, Kimberly and David Camm’s daughter, and on two places on Kim Camm’s underwear.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130801/NEWS02/307310174/Charles-Boney-s-DNA-found-key-items-David-Camm-murder-case-expert-says-hearing

joe jones
08-06-2013, 11:20 AM
he had to have touched both Kim and Jill for his DNA to have been found on there clothes, Kim had to have touched him for her DNA to have been found on his sweatshirt,

points to some kind of physical assault/attack by Boney on Kim, and how will he explain away his DNA on Jill,

all of this evidence should have been brought out in the first trial never mind the third,

meanmaryjean
08-09-2013, 07:31 PM
Judge ruled on DNA evidence today:

http://www.wthr.com/story/23096626/2013/08/09/judge-rules-dna-in-camm-case-is-admissible

This trial starts Monday- and I have most of the week off. Wondering if there will even BE seating for the public?

twall
08-10-2013, 02:37 AM
link to rulings

http://www.wlky.com/blob/view/-/21407788/data/1/-/dkm8rcz/-/camm-friday-rulings.pdf

joe jones
08-11-2013, 11:40 AM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/23104553/jury-selection-in-david-camm-trial-expected-to-start-monday-morning

jury selection expected to start monday

Cherry
08-11-2013, 12:24 PM
Het thanks guys for answering lol. I thought we watched his trial before. How weird it must b that I knw the dateline episode. Or something!! CRS!

Cherry
08-11-2013, 12:25 PM
Judge ruled on DNA evidence today:

http://www.wthr.com/story/23096626/2013/08/09/judge-rules-dna-in-camm-case-is-admissible

This trial starts Monday- and I have most of the week off. Wondering if there will even BE seating for the public?

Oolong pls go and tweet for us, lol!

meanmaryjean
08-12-2013, 08:04 AM
Drove past the courthouse at 7:45am on my way home from work. A lone reporter had already set up a spot for doing a morning show report. He wasn't any of the local talent, so I'm thinking he's from one of the Louisville stations. I have to sleep for a couple hours, if I wake up in time, might venture down to the courthouse.

joe jones
08-12-2013, 11:20 AM
Oolong pls go and tweet for us, lol!

Judge has banned all reporting from courtroom, so trial will not be live tweeted, reporters are only allowed on first floor of courthouse to film or file reports, the trial will be held in a courtroom on the third floor where media will not be allowed to file any reports - they will only be allowed to watch and make notes in the actual court on the third floor

twall
08-12-2013, 12:26 PM
trial blog

http://www.wdrb.com/story/23106807/david-camm-blog-introduction

meanmaryjean
08-12-2013, 01:25 PM
That kinda sucks- welcome to Indiana!

On the plus side: the courthouse itself is beautiful and a source of much pride here. The exterior columns are each one single piece of Indiana limestone- the largest in the world at one time. The dome of the roof is stained glass. And in the middle of the open space hangs a quilt made by the ladies of Boone County in 1976 to celebrate the bicentennial. The building is carefully maintained, and -though you will never see them- the interior of the courts themselves are stately and well kept.

joe jones
08-12-2013, 02:28 PM
http://www.indystar.com/article/20130812/NEWS/308120036/David-Camm-jury-selection-starts-could-take-week-more?nclick_check=1

jury selection may take up to a week

meanmaryjean
08-13-2013, 03:28 PM
Here's a link to the local Lebanon, IN newspaper. Caveat: It only gets published Tuesday- Saturday (long story).

http://reporter.net/

Today's story: http://reporter.net/local/x1084953597/Camm-trial-draws-Kentuckiana-media/?state=taberU

The Fig Tree cafe' that they mention is owned by a young couple from our church. If you're ever in the area, you should definitely check them out! Delish! she makes her own gelato :)

ScarlettScarpetta
08-13-2013, 03:53 PM
The afternoon hearing mainly centered on witnesses whom prosecutors and the defense attorneys asked the judge to exclude from the trial. Levco, for instance, questioned why defense lawyers needed to call Florida grief expert Sally Karioth.

Kammen and co-counsel Stacy Uliana said they expect detectives and police officers will describe how unusually Camm acted after the deaths. Uliana said they’d like to counter with an expert who would discuss what is normal for someone who has found his family murdered. “She’s essential to our case,” Uliana said.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130624/NEWS10/306240034/Lawyers-argue-over-who-should-testify-during-David-Camm-s-third-murder-trial

Anyone that watched the Anthony case this name will ring a bell.

oh gosh.. It will be like having Samuels and Lavoilette on the stand again.. Please... No.....

ScarlettScarpetta
08-13-2013, 04:09 PM
I followed this case at one time very closely and was absolutely convinced of DC's guilt.

I don't see anything so far that changes it. I can not believe he gets another trial.

I don't know how I will follow it without any kind of reporting on it.

I like to see it all for myself.

But right now, I still feel he is guilty.

ChubbyCheeks
08-14-2013, 01:23 PM
I followed this case at one time very closely and was absolutely convinced of DC's guilt.

I don't see anything so far that changes it. I can not believe he gets another trial.

I don't know how I will follow it without any kind of reporting on it.

I like to see it all for myself.

But right now, I still feel he is guilty.

BBM
Agreed SS. No tweeting allowed in a courtroom seems extreme, especially since it's the 3rd time around for a Camm trial.
I vaguely recall seeing this story on 48 Hours or Dateline - pre Boney - and thought he was guilty, but can't recall details of why.
Can you elaborate on your thoughts of what convinced you of his guilt? Was it the blood splatter on his t-shirt? I'm sure that's what would have convinced me, but the defense countered there should have been more than 8 drops - that makes sense to me, too. So, any input of yours would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

ScarlettScarpetta
08-14-2013, 01:41 PM
BBM
Agreed SS. No tweeting allowed in a courtroom seems extreme, especially since it's the 3rd time around for a Camm trial.
I vaguely recall seeing this story on 48 Hours or Dateline - pre Boney - and thought he was guilty, but can't recall details of why.
Can you elaborate on your thoughts of what convinced you of his guilt? Was it the blood splatter on his t-shirt? I'm sure that's what would have convinced me, but the defense countered there should have been more than 8 drops - that makes sense to me, too. So, any input of yours would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

Yes the blood is a clincher for me. why should there be more than 8 drops? What if he had something between her and him so that it would deflect more blood?

To me the fact that he has it on his shirt when he claims only to have been near the little boy means something big.

I have to go over it piece by piece again as I have not done that in a while, but so far I don't see anything that makes me rethink my decision on guilt.

twall
08-14-2013, 06:17 PM
If anyone needs a refresher here are the links to the 48 Hours episodes on the case "Murder on Lockhart Road".

Murder on Lockhart Road: Part 1 - 48 Hours - CBS News

Murder on Lockhart Road: Part 2 - 48 Hours - CBS News

Houndmom
08-14-2013, 10:52 PM
There is a website, JusticeForDavidCamm.com maintained by the Lockhart family. It has all the court documents and evidence linked on the pages.

ChubbyCheeks
08-15-2013, 08:43 AM
Yes the blood is a clincher for me. why should there be more than 8 drops? What if he had something between her and him so that it would deflect more blood?

To me the fact that he has it on his shirt when he claims only to have been near the little boy means something big.

I have to go over it piece by piece again as I have not done that in a while, but so far I don't see anything that makes me rethink my decision on guilt.

Morning all - ScarlettS -The blood was the clincher for me, too, because it was high velocity spatter. The vid I watched yesterday - it was on youtube and I'll have to find it again - was the the defense expert, and I understood him to say if it was the high velocity spatter he'd expect to see more in the area along with the 8 drops found, since the blood would have sprayed. He thought the blood was more likely transferred from blood that may have been on the daughter's hair as Camm reached across her to check on his son. In and of itself that sounds plausible to me. However, I don't know how that plays along with the crime scene and what Camm's explanation was; it's been so long since I've followed this case.
Thanks again for your take...appreciate it!

ChubbyCheeks
08-15-2013, 08:48 AM
If anyone needs a refresher here are the links to the 48 Hours episodes on the case "Murder on Lockhart Road".

Murder on Lockhart Road: Part 1 - 48 Hours - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4256563n)

Murder on Lockhart Road: Part 2 - 48 Hours - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4256584n)

Twall - thanks for the links to these videos; are you able to get them to play? When I try to play them a message appears and says the content is not available, that Time Warner customers cannot watch it. I'm not a Time Warner cable customer so I'm not sure why I can't play a CBS video - bummer!!

twall
08-15-2013, 11:44 AM
Twall - thanks for the links to these videos; are you able to get them to play? When I try to play them a message appears and says the content is not available, that Time Warner customers cannot watch it. I'm not a Time Warner cable customer so I'm not sure why I can't play a CBS video - bummer!!

yes, they play for me. I clicked on the title (white letters) at the top of the box and it took me to the CBS 48 Hours website and started playing.

twall
08-15-2013, 11:47 AM
link to an active forum on the case

http://www.sleuthingforjustice.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=80

joe jones
08-17-2013, 11:09 AM
opening statements Thursday

meanmaryjean
08-17-2013, 04:40 PM
Some local insight into jury selection. I have a hard time wrapping my brain around the fact that these are my friends and neighbors involved in this high profile case.....

http://reporter.net/local/x312409447/Jury-selection-continues-in-Camm-murder-trial/?state=taberU

joe jones
08-20-2013, 04:58 PM
jury selection completed, trial expected to start tomorrow

meanmaryjean
08-20-2013, 04:59 PM
ACK!!!! I'm driving my daughter to Evansville/ USI tomorrow.......

joe jones
08-21-2013, 07:37 AM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/23199187/d

jury makeup

kimbella
08-21-2013, 03:37 PM
I feel so sorry for these jurors!

Camm's family threatened the jurors from the first trial.

They were brought to Floyd County (where the murders occurred) from Johnson County (just south of Indy, about 2 hours away) so that the jury could be unlocal and not impartial.

Anyway, after the guilty verdict, they were threatened by Camm's family. I saw videos of some of his family wailing that the jury made a mistake and would pay. When a local news crew went to interview one of the jurors at his/her hotel, the juror met them at the door with a GUN. S/he was that terrified of Camm's family.

ChubbyCheeks
08-22-2013, 12:04 PM
Just read in article, link below, that Camm has been in prison most of the past 13 years although his convictions were overturned. Anyone know why he wouldn't have been released? TIA
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/3rd-trial-set-to-start-in-s-ind-familys-deaths

ChubbyCheeks
08-22-2013, 12:06 PM
Accidentally duplicated post.

Cherry
08-22-2013, 12:16 PM
He dangerous; guilty as charged I say. No third trial will change that for me. I hope for the same outcome: GUILTY GUILTY GUILTY! To bad so sad this is not televised :(

joe jones
08-22-2013, 12:44 PM
I could never convict him based on all the evidence I have seen in the first two trials, and now the new DNA evidence reveals that Boney touched both Jill and Kim and I believe that Kim and Boney had some physical confrontation due to her DNA being on his sweatshirt,

the fact that the state has never successfully been able to charge conspiracy between Boney and Camm says a huge amount to me about the states case, they have never had enough evidence to show that Camm and Boney ever met except for Boney and his never ending changing stories,

joe jones
08-22-2013, 12:48 PM
State has asked for a mistrial due to the defence mentioning Boneys foot fetish in there opening, judge will rule on this, so we may have a fourth trial yet,

Boneys foot fetish is extremely relevant to this crime, and I cannot understand why it is excluded from being mentioned

ScarlettScarpetta
08-22-2013, 01:05 PM
Oh for pitys sake.. I can not believe this craziness. I wish we could follow it on tv! Arg.

ChubbyCheeks
08-22-2013, 01:19 PM
I could never convict him based on all the evidence I have seen in the first two trials, and now the new DNA evidence reveals that Boney touched both Jill and Kim and I believe that Kim and Boney had some physical confrontation due to her DNA being on his sweatshirt,

the fact that the state has never successfully been able to charge conspiracy between Boney and Camm says a huge amount to me about the states case, they have never had enough evidence to show that Camm and Boney ever met except for Boney and his never ending changing stories,

I agree with you Joe. In addition to those two points, there's still the 11 or 12 witnesses who played b-ball with DC that evening. They've never waivered in their account of DC being at the game 7 - 9 that night. It'd be difficult to get 2 or 3 people to agree on a story, but 11 or 12 says a lot to me.
:twocents:

joe jones
08-22-2013, 01:28 PM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/23228145/opening-statements-in-camm-trial

possible mistrial hearing

joe jones
08-22-2013, 01:36 PM
the judge may not be ordering a mistrial so the trial should begin shortly with state CIC

twall
08-22-2013, 08:47 PM
Just read in article, link below, that Camm has been in prison most of the past 13 years although his convictions were overturned. Anyone know why he wouldn't have been released? TIA
http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/3rd-trial-set-to-start-in-s-ind-familys-deaths

Even though his convictions were overturned he was still charged with the crime and denied bond and had to stay in jail awaiting trial. He tried to get out on bond but the judge said no which is not uncommon for those charged with 1st degree murder. MOO

Did you ever get the Murder on Lockhart Road videos to play? Just wondering!

twall
08-22-2013, 08:54 PM
I could never convict him based on all the evidence I have seen in the first two trials, and now the new DNA evidence reveals that Boney touched both Jill and Kim and I believe that Kim and Boney had some physical confrontation due to her DNA being on his sweatshirt,

the fact that the state has never successfully been able to charge conspiracy between Boney and Camm says a huge amount to me about the states case, they have never had enough evidence to show that Camm and Boney ever met except for Boney and his never ending changing stories,

I can see how he was convicted in the prior trials but don't think he will be this time since this jury will hear all about Boney and the prior jurors did not. As far as my opinion as to his innocence I used to think he was guilty and waver back and forth a lot now but lean towards innocence but there are still some lingering questions I would like answered before I beleive he is 100% innocent. I guess you could call me a fencie atm. :fence: JMO

twall
08-22-2013, 08:59 PM
Oh for pitys sake.. I can not believe this craziness. I wish we could follow it on tv! Arg.

I know, ^#%$@%$ conservative state. :banghead: I can say that because I've lived in Indiana my entire life! lol

ChubbyCheeks
08-23-2013, 09:30 AM
Even though his convictions were overturned he was still charged with the crime and denied bond and had to stay in jail awaiting trial. He tried to get out on bond but the judge said no which is not uncommon for those charged with 1st degree murder. MOO

Did you ever get the Murder on Lockhart Road videos to play? Just wondering!

Thanks for explanation Twall. And, no, I can't get those videos to play....I keep getting a message that Time Warner dropped CBS so vids aren't available...I'm not. Time Warner customer though. I'll try something else because I really want to watch them again.

ChubbyCheeks
08-23-2013, 09:35 AM
I know, ^#%$@%$ conservative state. :banghead: I can say that because I've lived in Indiana my entire life! lol

Agree with you Twall! And I'm born and raised and lived in Indiana my entire life, too. Riduculous courts don't allow ANY technology! Not even a tweet! So behind the times!

kimbella
08-23-2013, 01:31 PM
I can see how he was convicted in the prior trials but don't think he will be this time since this jury will hear all about Boney and the prior jurors did not. As far as my opinion as to his innocence I used to think he was guilty and waver back and forth a lot now but lean towards innocence but there are still some lingering questions I would like answered before I beleive he is 100% innocent. I guess you could call me a fencie atm. :fence: JMO

I thought that Boney was mentioned in the 2nd trial? I could be totally wrong on that though! Didn't Camm's 2nd trial run at the same time as Boney's? Maybe that's what I'm thinking of.

Boney is supposed to testify this time, right? He never did before. I'm not sure if that will help/hinder either side. He's told how many different versions of his story now?

For me personally there are just too many things pointing to guilty. For one, I can't see Boney acting alone. I know he had a violent past committing armed robbery, but to my knowledge, he'd never killed anyone or hurt kids. Is it just some HUGE coincidence that he chose Kim Camm? IF it is a coincidence, what made him choose her? Why did he kill her instead of just robbing her?

twall
08-23-2013, 06:53 PM
I thought that Boney was mentioned in the 2nd trial? I could be totally wrong on that though! Didn't Camm's 2nd trial run at the same time as Boney's? Maybe that's what I'm thinking of.

Boney is supposed to testify this time, right? He never did before. I'm not sure if that will help/hinder either side. He's told how many different versions of his story now?

For me personally there are just too many things pointing to guilty. For one, I can't see Boney acting alone. I know he had a violent past committing armed robbery, but to my knowledge, he'd never killed anyone or hurt kids. Is it just some HUGE coincidence that he chose Kim Camm? IF it is a coincidence, what made him choose her? Why did he kill her instead of just robbing her?

Boney and Camm were tried at the same time. Maybe the Camm jury did hear about Boney, I can't remember.

January 2006 – Camm and Boney are tried simultaneously, Camm in Warrick Co/Boney in Floyd

January 26, 2006 – Boney found guilty of three counts of murder and one count of conspiracy – Sentenced to 225 years

March 3, 2006 – Camm found guilty of killing his family after the jury deliberated 4 days. The judge dropped the conspiracy charge against him earlier in the trial on a directed verdict.

http://www.wave3.com/story/23199913/camm-to-face-third-jury-what-you-need-to-know

yes, Boney is supposed to testify.

I have read Boney had stated he was going to kill a cop and his family. He lived with his mother after his release from prison in the same area where Kim's sister and bil had a meat market that he shopped at. He described the back of Kim's vehicle which had a ISP sticker on it and he more than likely knew Camm was LE. (former at the time of the shooting) If he acted alone maybe he did not know the kids were in the vehicle and shot them so they could not id him. Maybe he did not want anyone to be able to id him so he shot them all. Was there anything missing from the home? Did he rob them?
Maybe he was in the process and she came home and he freaked out and shot them. Crimes and cons can escalate, just because he did not kill anyone before doesn't mean he could not do it later.
At this point the only link I see to Camm and the crime is the blood on his shirt if it indeed is high velocity blood spatter from shooting a gun. Boney first denied knowing Camm but then changed his story, again and again.

My opinion.

twall
08-23-2013, 06:57 PM
Thanks for explanation Twall. And, no, I can't get those videos to play....I keep getting a message that Time Warner dropped CBS so vids aren't available...I'm not. Time Warner customer though. I'll try something else because I really want to watch them again.

Try this-it's on page 30

http://www.cbsnews.com/2076-503443_162-0-30.html

It used to be on You Tube but I am not finding them there. :(

ChubbyCheeks
08-24-2013, 09:22 AM
Try this-it's on page 30

http://www.cbsnews.com/2076-503443_162-0-30.html

It used to be on You Tube but I am not finding them there. :(

Thanks Twall...I just found that I can access the 48 Hour links on my cell phone so will attempt to watch both parts 1 & 2 later this evening. I also couldn't find on You Tube either.

joe jones
08-26-2013, 11:57 AM
ME testified today, was allowed to testify about the petechia found on Jills chest which suggested some compression type injury pre her death but not about the injuries the ME found on her vagina, state not allowed to speculate about what may have happened to cause chest petechia as his conviction was overturned due to speculation about alleged sexual assault of her by her father being a motive,

ScarlettScarpetta
08-26-2013, 12:00 PM
ME testified today, was allowed to testify about the petechia found on Jills chest which suggested some compression type injury pre her death but not about the injuries the ME found on her vagina, state not allowed to speculate about what may have happened to cause chest petechia as his conviction was overturned due to speculation about alleged sexual assault of her by her father being a motive,

This is ludicrous to me. If the child has damage and it is part of the facts of the case then let the jury decide..

Insanity to me.

joe jones
08-26-2013, 01:48 PM
http://www.wave3.com/story/23257598/camm-trial-826-morning-testimony-camm-son-likely-staring-at-barrel-of-gun-when-killed

from trial today

kimbella
08-26-2013, 05:28 PM
This is ludicrous to me. If the child has damage and it is part of the facts of the case then let the jury decide..

Insanity to me.

Yes - I too do not understand why it isn't allowed and why it was what caused the earlier trial verdict to be overturned.

I'm sure Kim's mom/Jill's grandmother won't be allowed to testify either.

Supposedly, Kim's mom (Jill's grandmother) was helping Jill get dressed for dance class the day of or the day before the murders. Jill complained that she was sore in her private area. Her grandmother asked if something had happened and Jill told her "daddy did it".

I heard this "story" within days of the murders, possibly even before Camm was first arrested.

Also, wasn't DC's semen found on Jill's bed sheets?

joe jones
08-31-2013, 02:07 PM
http://www.whas11.com/news/indiana/CAMM-BLOG--221690541.html

blog from trial

joe jones
09-03-2013, 11:41 AM
testimony is now focusing on DNA and whose it is and where is was found,

joe jones
09-03-2013, 12:55 PM
Today will be an uncomfortable day for Stan Faith as we start to hear the testimony about how he tried to get state DNA analysts to say they found Camm DNA on the Boney sweatshirt, and threatened them to try to make them do this when they refused, and he never asked them to run the unknown profiles from the sweatshirt through Codis, Boneys DNA was in Codis and he would have been found before the first Camm trial if they had run the profile, I am of the firm belief that if Boneys DNA was found pre the first trial then Camm would never have been tried

defence is calling him to testify in this trial which he must be dreading,

joe jones
09-04-2013, 12:50 PM
Jury are asking very pertinent questions of the investigators, focusing on what was not done during the initial investigation,

joe jones
09-04-2013, 03:07 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130904/NEWS01/309040065/David-Camm-s-defense-team-attacks-investigation-family-s-murders

defence attacking investigation of crime

joe jones
09-06-2013, 10:42 AM
today testimony is about the 8 spots of blood on Camms t shirt which state experts argue is high velocity blood spatter, I have always found it odd why if there is only 8 spots they caqn decide with any level of scientific certainty what the spots represent, surely there should be more than 8 spots if it is high velocity blood spatter

joe jones
09-06-2013, 10:44 AM
states first expert on the blood on t shirt evidence has conceded that blood spatter evidence is subjective not objective

joe jones
09-07-2013, 12:14 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130906/NEWS02/309060084/David-Camm-s-defense-attacks-analysis-bloodstains-murder-case

from trial

joe jones
09-09-2013, 12:27 PM
Boney is testifying today, before defence cross him they are requesting the judge allows them to ask Boney about all his criminal convictions not just the limited ones the state wants them to, defence wants to be able to ask Boney about his admitted foot fetish,

joe jones
09-11-2013, 12:15 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130910/NEWS02/309100119/David-Camm-witnesses-Sept-10

Boney is hoping for his sentence to be modified in exchange for his testimony

joe jones
09-13-2013, 09:59 AM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/23418567/david-camm-blog-jailhouse-informants

snitches testify

joe jones
09-13-2013, 10:01 AM
wonder what is in the statement of Boneys ex girlfriend, and once again we see evidence revealed that has been hidden from the defence for years

ohiogirl
09-13-2013, 11:53 AM
Amazing! First they don't know if it even exists, then they find it?
This is one of the most egregious persecutions I have ever followed!

kimbella
09-14-2013, 06:09 PM
From this blog post: http://www.wdrb.com/story/23418567/david-camm-blog-jailhouse-informants

Niemeyer said he found 1,950 brass particles on Camm's shorts.

"When I saw the quantity of brass particles pulled from the shorts, I was quite surprised," Niemeyer said, adding that he had not seen that many pulled from clothing before. He said it could have been caused by, "handling cartridge cases or loading a clip – loading a gun."

As for the brass, Uliana pointed out that brass particles can be found on doorknobs, plumbing fixtures and other household items. Niemeyer agreed, but noted, "this is the first time I've run into that many particles from one tape lift."

Niemeyer went on to explain his theory: that because the brass particles were so small, the abrasions creating them had to be very light. He said he believes whoever was wearing the shirt was rubbing brass cartridges – the type used in a gun – together in his hand.

He said that, for him, this was the "most likely scenario."

I had not heard about the brass particles before! I wonder if it is possible to compare the brass particles on Camm's shorts with the bullets and casings/cartridges found at the murder scene. Would there be any way to tell if the brass particles came from those bullets? Has Camm ever mentioned working on plumbing or a doorknob earlier in the day?

kimbella
09-14-2013, 11:16 PM
I just thought of something and wanted to run it by other sleuthers.

I got a small paper cut on my hand earlier today. I didn't really pay attention to it until an hour or so later when I looked down and saw it had been bleeding. A small drop of blood formed on one end of the cut and it was already drying/gelling and the drop was drier on top (if that makes sense). It didn't come off when I gently wiped over it with a Kleenex.

The defense is saying the 8 tiny spots of blood on Camm's shirt came from the shirt rubbing on Jill's hair when Camm leaned over her to get to Brad. Wouldn't the blood have already been drying/gelling by the time Camm got home? So, for the blood to transfer to Camm's shirt, he would have had to have leaned heavily on Jill's hair - but at the same time, I would think that doing so would have led to larger blood spots or smeared spots even just more spots.

Wouldn't the blood have had to have been very wet/liquidy still for it to have transferred so easily to Camm's shirt?

I know that there could have been microscopic droplets of blood in Jill's hair that could be why the spots are so small, but wouldn't those have been dry already by the time Camm arrived home? (Given that the smaller the size of a liquid, the more quickly it will dry. The blood along my paper cut was already dry, except for the blood in the drop that had formed on one end of the cut.)

Does that make any sense? Am I missing something? It's been a while since I had AP Biology in high school. :blushing:

kimbella
09-14-2013, 11:46 PM
I just thought of something and wanted to run it by other sleuthers.

I got a small paper cut on my hand earlier today. I didn't really pay attention to it until an hour or so later when I looked down and saw it had been bleeding. A small drop of blood formed on one end of the cut and it was already drying/gelling and was drier on top (if that makes sense). It didn't come off when I gently wiped over it with a Kleenex.

The defense is saying the 8 tiny spots of blood on Camm's shirt came from the shirt rubbing on Jill's hair when Camm leaned over her to get to Brad. Wouldn't the blood have already been drying/gelling by the time Camm got home? So, for the blood to transfer to Camm's shirt, he would have had to have leaned heavily on Jill's hair - but at the same time, I would think that doing so would have led to larger blood spots or smeared spots even just more spots.

Wouldn't the blood have had to have been very wet/liquidy still for it to have transferred so easily to Camm's shirt?

I know that there could have been microscopic droplets of blood in Jill's hair that could be why the spots are so small, but wouldn't those have been dry already by the time Camm arrived home? (Given that the smaller the size of a liquid, the more quickly it will dry. The blood along my paper cut was already dry, except for the blood in the drop that had formed on one end of the cut.)

Does that make any sense? Am I missing something? It's been a while since I had AP Biology in high school. :blushing:

ohiogirl
09-16-2013, 03:31 PM
IIRC, there wasn't a long amount of time between the killings and when DC got home.

joe jones
09-18-2013, 02:14 PM
Boneys ex girlfriend has once again testified to the fact that she never saw Boney wearing sports shoes, and as far as she knew he never played basketball, which is where Boney says he met Camm,

plus the note that has now been found that she wrote over a decade ago provided the information that Camm had a photograph of a woman called Kimberley

joe jones
09-18-2013, 02:17 PM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/23458644/david-camm-blog-ex-girlfriend-problems

blog from trial

ohiogirl
09-18-2013, 02:41 PM
Boneys ex girlfriend has once again testified to the fact that she never saw Boney wearing sports shoes, and as far as she knew he never played basketball, which is where Boney says he met Camm,

plus the note that has now been found that she wrote over a decade ago provided the information that Camm had a photograph of a woman called Kimberley

I thought it was Boney who had the picture.

joe jones
09-19-2013, 08:21 AM
I thought it was Boney who had the picture.

only just noticed my typo, I imagine Camm had loads of pictures of his wife and kids,

ohiogirl
09-20-2013, 10:47 AM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/23481327/david-camm-blog-tattoo-dilemma

State rests.

ohiogirl
09-20-2013, 10:50 AM
The jury in the David Camm case on Thursday heard testimony that an Indiana State Police detective and distant relative of Charles Boney took Kim Camm's cell phone out of the evidence room and kept it for two months, returning it fingerprint-free.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/23475593/prosecution-ready-to-rest-its-case-in-camm-trial

ohiogirl
10-03-2013, 09:13 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20131002/NEWS02/310020076/Blood-stains-David-Camm-s-T-shirt-caused-by-contact-defense-expert-says

Blood spatter expert Barton Epstein testified Wednesday that he found no inconsistencies between statements David Camm made to investigators and the physical evidence found at the scene where his family was murdered.

ohiogirl
10-03-2013, 09:16 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130924/NEWS02/309240059/Witness-admits-misleading-jurors-David-Camm-s-previous-murder-trials?odyssey=obinsite&nclick_check=1

The first witness called Tuesday by David Camm’s attorneys in his third murder trial was an Oregon man who testified in previous trials as an expert for the prosecution.

This time Robert “Rob” Stites, a former police officer who was hired by forensic blood expert Rod Englert to take photos and notes at the scene, admitted that he incorrectly told ealier jurors that he was a blood stain pattern analyst.


Sorry, this should have been posted before the one before it.
Interesting testimony of the original "blood spatter expert".

ohiogirl
10-04-2013, 02:18 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20130929/NEWS02/309290054/

Midway through David Camm’s third murder trial, Floyd County officials are fretting about the estimated $1.1 million it will cost a community already struggling with depleted county coffers.

“We’re in dire straits,” said Dana Fendley, vice president of the Floyd County Council, who added that officials may have to arrange a loan to avoid sinking into the red before the year ends.

In all, the county’s tally for all Camm-related trials and expenses since 2000 will exceed $4.4 million by the end of 2013, based on an analysis of records and estimates of final trial expenses calculated by county Auditor Scott Clark.

ohiogirl
10-04-2013, 02:21 PM
http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20131003/NEWS02/310030052/Expert-testifies-David-Camm-murder-trial-blood-spatter-analysis-has-50-error-rate

A forensic biologist testified in David Camm’s murder trial Thursday that there is a 50 percent error rate in deciding whether the blood stains on Camm’s T-shirt and shoes were caused by gunshot spatter or incidental contact.

Madeleine74
10-04-2013, 02:55 PM
This case baffles me simply because I don't understand why this Boney guy (if he acted alone) would kill 2 little kids as well as the mom, in the garage, 2 of them in the car. It makes no sense to me. Was there a burglary? Why in the garage? That implies Kim & kids were just getting home and were attacked before they could have seen anything going on (inside the house, for instance).

Who most benefits when a wife and kids are killed?

I've also never been able to get past the M.E.'s findings of sexual abuse on the 5 yr old girl. That wasn't from/by Boney, IIRC.

fifteen89
10-05-2013, 01:51 PM
Anyone know how much longer the trial is expected to last? TIA!

7620
10-05-2013, 06:52 PM
This case baffles me simply because I don't understand why this Boney guy (if he acted alone) would kill 2 little kids as well as the mom, in the garage, 2 of them in the car. It makes no sense to me. Was there a burglary? Why in the garage? That implies Kim & kids were just getting home and were attacked before they could have seen anything going on (inside the house, for instance).

Who most benefits when a wife and kids are killed?

I've also never been able to get past the M.E.'s findings of sexual abuse on the 5 yr old girl. That wasn't from/by Boney, IIRC.

Boney is a classic predator. If there was in fact sexual abuse of Jill why could it not have been from Boney?

Madeleine74
10-05-2013, 08:07 PM
Boney is a classic predator. If there was in fact sexual abuse of Jill why could it not have been from Boney?

I thought Jill was still strapped into her car seat? It doesn't seem like more than a minute passed between the car pulling into the garage and all 3 being shot. Just long enough for the mom to exit out of the car. Both kids were still in their seats, right?

Was Boney a classic child predator? Serial Killer? I don't know his background. Had he murdered women & kids before?

Also if there was any evidence of prior abuse (and I'm not saying there was as I didn't see or read the M.E's report or hear her testimony) it wouldn't be Boney for any prior incidents.

ohiogirl
10-07-2013, 11:47 AM
This case baffles me simply because I don't understand why this Boney guy (if he acted alone) would kill 2 little kids as well as the mom, in the garage, 2 of them in the car. It makes no sense to me. Was there a burglary? Why in the garage? That implies Kim & kids were just getting home and were attacked before they could have seen anything going on (inside the house, for instance).

Who most benefits when a wife and kids are killed?

I've also never been able to get past the M.E.'s findings of sexual abuse on the 5 yr old girl. That wasn't from/by Boney, IIRC.

http://www.wthr.com/story/23260141/2013/08/26/molestation-testimony-not-allowed-at-david-camm-trial

The judge ruled that the jury could not hear testimony relating to the alleged molestation, calling the claim speculation without enough evidence to support it.

ohiogirl
10-08-2013, 01:58 PM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/23636495/david-camm-defense-presents-new-evidence

David Camm walked into the Boone County Courthouse Tuesday morning offering a subtle look at the media, perhaps knowing what was to come in testimony. Touch DNA expert Richard Eikelenboom of Independent Forensic Services told the jury he found DNA profiles consistent with Charles Boney on the clothing worn by Kim and Jill Camm on the day of the murder in September 2000.

ohiogirl
10-08-2013, 02:05 PM
https://twitter.com/davidcamm_gb

ohiogirl
10-17-2013, 04:09 PM
http://www.wdrb.com/story/23716198/david-camm-final-witnesses

Final witnesses are done. Closing next Monday. 10/21/13

joe jones
10-21-2013, 11:10 AM
after arguing for over a decade and through 3 trials that David Camm was the shooter and it was he who wanted to kill his family and Boney was only the provider of the guns they are now arguing for a jury instruction that says Camm aided and abetted Boney in the murders.

This is utter insanity, they are so desperate for a conviction any conviction that they will argue a whole new theory of the crime.

fifteen89
10-21-2013, 11:31 AM
How many of us believe the jury has gotten it right every time so far?

joe jones
10-21-2013, 01:19 PM
How many of us believe the jury has gotten it right every time so far?

I could never convict him on the evidence the state has provided in all 3 trials, I also now think he had no involvement in the murder of his family - I think Charles Boney is the sole killer

Madeleine74
10-21-2013, 03:53 PM
How many of us believe the jury has gotten it right every time so far?

I think the jury works with the information they're given, at least hopefully. And they do the best they can with what they're given. So, if the judge has ruled correctly, and the evidence has been presented correctly, then the Jury's verdict is "correct" if they've followed the instructions and law.

Cherry
10-21-2013, 03:56 PM
So far; I think the jury has gotten it right every single time. I just hope to god this one does.
I picture in my mind; giving this to them now; this case. Here it is yours now; no matter what any one says. And I will hope the verdict; is a swift one. I will be hoping very hard.

joe jones
10-22-2013, 07:58 AM
The state is now wanting to argue that maybe David wasn't present during the murders - that he may have hired Boney to do thre murders thus they have persuaded the judge to allow a jury charge of aiding and abetting, this allows the jury to convict on the theory that Boney was the murderer and Camm the instigator and they conspired together.

The Judge in the second trial dismissed the conspiracy charge as there was and has never been any evidence provided by either LE or Boney to warrant any conspiracy charges, in all 3 trials they have not provided one witness, one phone record or any evidence to show that Boney and Camm ever met except for Boneys many differing version of events.

If he is convicted the defence has huge appelate issues in this judge allowing a conspiracy charge in all but name as it smacks of double jeopardy.

joe jones
10-22-2013, 10:58 AM
state closings defence up after then state rebuttal,

with the new jury instructions I think it is highly likely the jury may compromise on a guilty verdict, if they are not convinced that Camm was/is the killer they can convict him of the murder on the aiding and abetting instructions

Madeleine74
10-22-2013, 12:09 PM
That type of instruction is common in murder cases in NC. Here it's called "acting in concert." Not the same as conspiracy, btw. They can be different charges.

joe jones
10-22-2013, 01:16 PM
they are different charges but they rely on the same facts to convict, that more than one person acting together committed the crime, and the state has no evidence to prove there was ever any evidence to show this happened in this case

first trial was Camm was the sole perp, even though they had unknown DNA on the "Backbone" sweatshirt, and he did it because he wanted rid of his family to be free to date other women, and a side motive was the insurance issue and possible sexual abuse, conviction was found to be unsound

second trial happened at same time as Boneys, Judge through out any idea the state wanted to charge on any conspiracy theories as no evidence, Camm was still sole shooter who had bought the murder weapon off Boney, and motive was more focused on alleged sexual abuse and insurance money a side motive, conviction again unsound

third trial up to jury instructions and closings was mostly focused on Camm was sole shooter with Boney present to bring him the gun/s and to be the patsy, state is now arguing that jury can convict even if they don't believe he was the shooter or even present during the crime, and this time the sole motive was insurance money,

wonder what the fourth trial theory will be as if he is convicted he will have many apellate issues that can be raised by his defence

kimbella
10-22-2013, 09:11 PM
I've also never been able to get past the M.E.'s findings of sexual abuse on the 5 yr old girl. That wasn't from/by Boney, IIRC.

Me neither. Within days of the murders, probably before the ME's findings were public, Tammy, Camm's ex-wife, said that Jill had told her Grandmother (Kim's mother) that her private area was sore and that "daddy did it".

joe jones
10-23-2013, 11:19 AM
jury has case so we wait for the third verdict

kimbella
10-24-2013, 12:12 PM
Jury has reached a verdict. To be read at 12:30 ET.

fifteen89
10-24-2013, 12:18 PM
Praying for another G.

EGirl
10-24-2013, 12:28 PM
ET or CST?

fifteen89
10-24-2013, 12:32 PM
Kimbella's post says ET. ;)

EGirl
10-24-2013, 12:32 PM
I"m so torn by this case. The sexual abuse of the daughter clouds my judgement of Cam but Boney's story is such BS.

EGirl
10-24-2013, 12:34 PM
Kimbella's post says ET. ;)Yeah I saw that but on the WDRB site it says last updated 11:24 CST.

I'll keep watching. :)

fifteen89
10-24-2013, 12:42 PM
Video live on http://www.wdrb.com/ now says "verdict to be announced shortly". Hopefully it's ET.

fifteen89
10-24-2013, 12:46 PM
Not guilty on all 3 counts.

kimbella
10-24-2013, 12:49 PM
I feel so sorry for the Renn family, and Camm's oldest daughter. She must be scared to death right now!

fifteen89
10-24-2013, 12:51 PM
I know. Sad all the way around.

Madeleine74
10-24-2013, 12:53 PM
Sorry for the Renn family but this is our system. Nothing will bring back their loved ones. It doesn't mean Camm is "innocent" it means the jury said the state didn't prove the charges. So he's not guilty.

ohiogirl
10-24-2013, 02:36 PM
http://wildabouttrial.com/one_off/former-indiana-trooper-david-camm-cleared-in-familys-deaths/

I am glad for this verdict. I don't think this man murdered his family, and I think LE jumped to too many conclusions and tried to make the evidence fit their theory. I don't have to like him to think he was railroaded.

jmo

joe jones
10-24-2013, 03:16 PM
I am so glad the jury finally got it,

kimbella
10-24-2013, 03:33 PM
His poor older daughter. :( People are offering her condolences on facebook and she is thanking them.

I know that if my dad were a murder suspect, I'd have to have A LOT of evidence before I would believe him to be guilty.

ZsaZsa
10-24-2013, 03:47 PM
Another brutal murderer gets away with it.
We should be used to it by now, but :banghead:

Madeleine74
10-24-2013, 05:58 PM
What about the oldest daughter? Someone please catch me up on the deal with her and why she thinks he did it.

ZsaZsa
10-24-2013, 06:29 PM
What about the oldest daughter? Someone please catch me up on the deal with her and why she thinks he did it.

She and his first wife sat firmly with the Renns in court!
I believe they have both had restraining orders against Camm in the past.
IMO he probably abused her, just like he did Jill.

EGirl
10-24-2013, 06:38 PM
She and his first wife sat firmly with the Renns in court!
I believe they have both had restraining orders against Camm in the past.
IMO he probably abused her, just like he did Jill.

The older daughter has denied he ever molested her.

It concerns me that the first trial convicted him without any mention of Boney. We know the prosecution case was wrong in that instance.


I was a firm GUILTY during the first trial.

I just don't know anymore.

(sigh)

kimbella
10-24-2013, 06:39 PM
What about the oldest daughter? Someone please catch me up on the deal with her and why she thinks he did it.

I don't know WHY she believes he's guilty, only that she does.

When her mom asked if he'd ever sexually molested her, she said "no".

At the first trial, she sat on the prosecution side with the Renn's. (I don't know why she was allowed to attend, though she was 18 at the time, so maybe it was her decision? She fainted in the courtroom when the guilty verdicts were read then.) She hasn't attended the two other trials, tmk.

I'm pretty sure that she and her mom and Camm lived with Camm's parents when she was really young. So, she grew up, at least for a little while, with her grandparents. To my knowledge, she has nothing to do with any of the Camm/Lockhart family currently.

I have heard it theorized that her mom,Camm's ex wife, brainwashed her. Even if it were true at first, his daughter(sorry that reads weird, I don't want to use her name on a public forum) is an adult now and free to form her own opinion. Also, I personally can't see her mother brainwashing her. Before the murders, Camm and his daughter had a decent relationship, and to my knowledge, he and his ex wife were on decent terms. After he was arrested, Camm's ex was not going around saying things like, "I knew he did it" or "it doesn't surprise me". Instead she was saying things like, "I just keep thinking it could have been me," not because he was arrested for the murders, but because she was was identifying with Camm's wife being killed and she had once been Camm's wife.

kimbella
10-24-2013, 06:40 PM
She and his first wife sat firmly with the Renns in court!
I believe they have both had restraining orders against Camm in the past.
IMO he probably abused her, just like he did Jill.

His older daughter told her mom that Camm never sexually abused her. Her mom said asking her if she had been abused was one of the hardest things she ever had to do.

eta: I'll have to look again, but I don't remember seeing any restraining orders against him on the site mycase.in.gov

Madeleine74
10-24-2013, 06:50 PM
I don't know what to think in this case. I don't see why Boney murdered 2 little kids. I get that he was (or is) a predator who has foot fetish and steals shoes, etc., but why kill the children? They were shot inside the SUV. If Boney wanted to steal he could have done that and gotten out. Going to the garage and then killing the occupants right then and there makes no sense to me. The kids were still in their seats.

I suspect Camm was involved but if the jury didn't have enough evidence to convict then that's how it goes. It's not what one believes, it's what the jury believes based on the evidence presented and whether it meets the burden or not. This jury decided this 3rd time and that's the end of it.

kimbella
10-24-2013, 09:06 PM
I don't know what to think in this case. I don't see why Boney murdered 2 little kids. I get that he was (or is) a predator who has foot fetish and steals shoes, etc., but why kill the children? They were shot inside the SUV. If Boney wanted to steal he could have done that and gotten out. Going to the garage and then killing the occupants right then and there makes no sense to me. The kids were still in their seats.

I suspect Camm was involved but if the jury didn't have enough evidence to convict then that's how it goes. It's not what one believes, it's what the jury believes based on the evidence presented and whether it meets the burden or not. This jury decided this 3rd time and that's the end of it.

I just can't see why Boney would kill kids either. I could even see him killing Kim and then just leaving the kids alone. They were 7 and 5 it's not like they would be able to pick him out of a line up! They also might not have even seen Boney well, given that the were still in the backseat of the car.

The defense has said that Boney wanted to kill a cop or a cop's family and that he had seen Kim's car with a police license plate at her family's meat market. Then he followed her home and killed them. I just can't see him doing that. Honestly, he seems not very intelligent and even that seems too elaborate a plan for him to devise himself. Not to mention anyone can purchase a police license plate, not just police officers and their families, so how was Boney to know that he was actually messing with a cop's family.

With Boney's other crimes, he "terrorized" his victims for a time. He didn't do that in this case. Why not?

Also, there were carpet fibers from Camm's master bedroom on Boney's sweatshirt. How did those get there? Tmk Boney never entered the house. Even if he had, what was he doing on the floor of the Camm's bedroom?

There are just so many unanswered questions if one is to believe that Boney acted alone (or even with an accomplice other than Camm).

ZsaZsa
10-25-2013, 10:24 AM
The Renn family will now move forward with civil suits against Camm.
Let's hope they can get some justice there.

http://www.theindychannel.com/news/local-news/david-camm-faces-2-civil-suits-after-acquittal

His motive for killing his wife and children - freedom from them to continue with his affairs, and the $$$ in life insurance. Of course I'm sure some sleaze like Dr Phil will probably come around and offer more money for an interview.

Still_Seek_Answers
10-25-2013, 10:55 AM
I am not sure if there will ever be true justice in this case. I am not sure rather or not Camm was involved.....but......I think so much of the evidence became muddled.....largely because of the prosecution.....that it makes it very difficult to come to a true decision. Why didn't they follow up on the sweatshirt DNA Before the first trial? I would think that would have been a standard thing to do. As to Camms oldest daughter.....it takes a child sometimes many many years to overcome brainwashing. So I place less importance on that. If his first wife held tight to a story.......daughter was raised thinking that way, and it is going to to be very hard for her to change her mind. Sorry, but I feel this case lands in the lap of the prosecutors......the defense did not have to provide a reasonable doubt......prosecution did it for them.......but someday somebody will have to answer to a higher power, and explain why they did this.....I'd sure not want to be in their shoes!!

chlban
10-25-2013, 11:54 AM
ZsaZsa;9923905 Another brutal murderer gets away with it.
We should be used to it by now, but :banghead

I agree completeley

Madeleine74
10-25-2013, 06:10 PM
He didn't exactly get away with it; he did spend 13 yrs in state prison. And while that seems like nothing, it was (at least) something, if one is convinced of his guilt. And don't forget he still faces a civil lawsuit.

To try and put it in perspective, (again if you think he's guilty of the murders) it's certainly more 'justice' than the Brown/Goldman families got from OJ butchering their loved ones.

If you believe at all in Karma and the laws of the universe then no murderer ever truly 'gets away' with it. They may appear to in this life but that's only what we can see/perceive. I think the blight on a murderer's soul for such actions cause far more pain than we realize.