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View Full Version : CO - *ARREST!* Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #23



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SoSueMe
10-27-2012, 02:46 PM
http://www.9news.com/images/300/169/2/assetpool/images/121006120051_ridgeway.jpg
http://www.9news.com/news/article/293104/222/Police-search-for-missing-Westminster-girl

case map:
http://goo.gl/maps/DIhBs

timeline and media no discussion thread


Jessica's memorial thread: Found Deceased CO - Memorial Thread for Jessica Ridgeway - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


thread #1
thread #2 thread #3 thread #4 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8441332&posted=1#post8441332) thread #5 thread #6 thread #7 thread #8 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8454505&posted=1#post8454505) thread #9
thread #10 thread #11 thread #12 thread #13 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8478035&posted=1#post8478035) thread #14 thread #15 thread #16 thread #17 Thread #18 Thread #19 Thread #20 Thread #21 thread #22




New9 Live feed: http://www.9news.com/video/player_live_2.aspx

Denver Live feed: http://denver.cbslocal.com/live-video/

KCTV 5 Live Feed http://www.kctv5.com/story/19903905/man-faces-charges-for-abducting-killing-jessica-ridgeway

(Thank you Knox!!!!)
Amandareckonwith's case archive (http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/)


rules on RSOs
New Rules on Sex Offenders and Rumors - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=91068)

Here is the thread on RSOs.

You can link to RSOs in the area. You cannot sleuth them other than what is listed on this thread. If you have a question about a particular case and a particular RSO and what can and cannot be posted in depth you can post your question for administration on this thread.


((please note: questioning of what can and cannot be posted and moderation questions should not be placed on the general discussion thread. I hope that helps. If anyone has a further question please pm a moderator or administrator.))


Continue the discussion here:

The Latest:

Police release pictures of a cross that may be related to Jessica's case as well as the case in May. Read more and see pictures of the cross here:
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/jessica-ridgeway/police-say-wooden-cross-may-belong-to-jessica-ridgeways-killer-need-help-identifying-it (http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/jessica-ridgeway/police-say-wooden-cross-may-belong-to-jessica-ridgeways-killer-need-help-identifying-it)
http://www.kctv5.com/story/19867106/recovered-cross-possible-pivotal-piece-in-jessica-ridgeway-investigation (http://www.kctv5.com/story/19867106/recovered-cross-possible-pivotal-piece-in-jessica-ridgeway-investigation)
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/10/19/wooden-cross-could-provide-break-in-ridgeway-case/ (http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/10/19/wooden-cross-could-provide-break-in-ridgeway-case/)

Important reminder: This is a busy thread with many people posting and reading. Please respect your fellow posters and post responsibly
Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65798)

nursebeeme
10-31-2012, 08:35 PM
Continue the discussion here:

A few reminders:
1) Remember the rules for social media: only official social media from the family, that of the victim, and that of suspect are allowed. Official means main stream media and law enforcement.

2) Be nice to one another

3) No sleuthing of minors

4) stating a fact: link it
stating an opinion: MOO it

Dee10
10-31-2012, 09:06 PM
Not sure how to do it, but I would like to bring over Matou's post with important link on last thread #1194

Maybe someone could fix this if it doesn't work, please. It is very interesting as it implies he has a juvie record...haven't seen this before.

nursebeeme
10-31-2012, 09:07 PM
Not sure how to do it, but I would like to bring over Matou's post with important link on last thread #1194 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8522751&postcount=1194)

Maybe someone could fix this if it doesn't work, please. It is very interesting as it implies he has a juvie record...haven't seen this before.
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CO - *ARREST!* Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #22

Dee10
10-31-2012, 09:17 PM
Thanks Nursebeme! Good catch Matou!

If there is a juvie record, perhaps that is why he got counseling/treatment at 15 for the porn. Just have to add, obviously whatever treatment he received didn't work.


Sigg does not appear on any Colorado sex offender lists and since he is a juvenile, his previous record has been sealed.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/jessica-ridgeway/westminster-police-make-major-announcement-in-jessica-ridgeway-abduction-murder-case

alexandra
10-31-2012, 09:42 PM
I copied this over from last thread...think SurfieTx posted it earlier today:

This is the kind of computer stuff AS was into - very technical:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-p...ble_gate_array
___________

I'm still trying to catch up, but was something reported about AS's computer knowledge? I must have missed it :( TIA

otto
10-31-2012, 09:42 PM
The suspect ... images from his dohastvath page. It's odd that he isn't looking at the camera, even though he was posing with someone for the photo. Another thing I find odd is that his facial expression is assymetrical ... I think that's uncommon in children.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/facesofaustin.jpg

ImWithTheBand
10-31-2012, 10:16 PM
The suspect ... images from his dohastvath page. It's odd that he isn't looking at the camera, even though he was posing with someone for the photo. Another thing I find odd is that his facial expression is assymetrical ... I think that's uncommon in children.

bbm ~ I think that may be because he is looking at a screen where his image is. I know when I use the phone camera where the screen faces me, my eyes look like I am looking anywhere other than the camera, cause I am looking at my face :)

danzn16
10-31-2012, 10:25 PM
Disgusted to hear about the sexual assault :(

FrayedKnot
10-31-2012, 10:29 PM
Disgusted to hear about the sexual assault :(

I agree, but in the darkest places of my mind I knew it already. Didn't you? :(.

I may be in the minority but I believe this thing possesses a broken mind/soul. And porn and video games had nothing to do with it. Sometimes broke is just broke. :(

Forensic fan
10-31-2012, 10:29 PM
bbm ~ I think that may be because he is looking at a screen where his image is. I know when I use the phone camera where the screen faces me, my eyes look like I am looking anywhere other than the camera, cause I am looking at my face :)

It looks like such a fake smile, it doesn't reach his eyes

RANCH
10-31-2012, 10:30 PM
I copied this over from last thread...think SurfieTx posted it earlier today:

This is the kind of computer stuff AS was into - very technical:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Field-p...ble_gate_array
___________

I'm still trying to catch up, but was something reported about AS's computer knowledge? I must have missed it :( TIA

I'd like to see where this information about Austin's computer expertise comes from. Does anyone have a link?

FrayedKnot
10-31-2012, 10:33 PM
It looks like such a fake smile, it doesn't reach his eyes

Meh, but we could probably analyze anyone's photo after the fact and find whatever it is we think we should see. JMO

I mean, he is totally guilty and ought never to be free again but as to whether he appears "evil" or "off" in a photo, well hindsight ya know......

Wishbone
10-31-2012, 10:41 PM
I'd like to see where this information about Austin's computer expertise comes from. Does anyone have a link?



couldn't find much about it.....


Sigg's former classmates at Standley Lake High said he was smart and nice and walked and talked to kids who looked like they were alone. He enjoyed computers, liked computer games, helped in the computer lab and bragged about his skills to hack into computer programs.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/jessica-ridgeway/westminster-police-make-major-announcement-in-jessica-ridgeway-abduction-murder-case

Knox
10-31-2012, 10:49 PM
While Sigg was charged as an adult in this case, he will not face the death penalty.

The Supreme Court of the United States, in the June ruling in the Miller v. Alabama case, decided that mandatory life sentences without the possibility of parole are unconstitutional for juvenile offenders. Additionally, the Supreme Court ruled in Roper v. Simmons that the death penalty was cruel and unusual for people who committed crimes while under the age of 18.


Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/national/jessica-ridgeway-case-prosecutors-file-17-charges-against-suspected-killer-austin-reed-sigg#ixzz2Aw2kgrma
BBM-Ironic isn't it.

Wondered what you all are thinking. Will he and his Attorneys seek a LWOP plea deal?

RANCH
10-31-2012, 11:01 PM
couldn't find much about it.....


Sigg's former classmates at Standley Lake High said he was smart and nice and walked and talked to kids who looked like they were alone. He enjoyed computers, liked computer games, helped in the computer lab and bragged about his skills to hack into computer programs.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/jessica-ridgeway/westminster-police-make-major-announcement-in-jessica-ridgeway-abduction-murder-case

Thanks Wishbone. Does this show that he has more than average computer skills for someone his age?

alexandra
10-31-2012, 11:05 PM
couldn't find much about it.....


Sigg's former classmates at Standley Lake High said he was smart and nice and walked and talked to kids who looked like they were alone. He enjoyed computers, liked computer games, helped in the computer lab and bragged about his skills to hack into computer programs.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/jessica-ridgeway/westminster-police-make-major-announcement-in-jessica-ridgeway-abduction-murder-case

Thank you Wishbone. Was just wondering what the link to specific computer knowledge was based on.

Melanie
10-31-2012, 11:05 PM
Disgusted to hear about the sexual assault :(

Me too -- hoping he was just a sick n' twisted coroner wannabe. Then I heard he had a porn habit and said "oh carp". Poor little Jessica.

MOO

Mel

scorekeeper
10-31-2012, 11:07 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/prosperitygospel/ci_4459571

I know this is a very long article but I found it very, very interesting (information about AS's father).

I wonder if AS was an active member of the youth group?

Wishbone
10-31-2012, 11:12 PM
Thanks Wishbone. Does this show that he has more than average computer skills for someone his age?


school mates made these comments about him being very smart.



She said Sigg was into music and computers and excelled even in advanced courses.



Parmiter and another friend Ashley Philbrook, 18, described Sigg as sweet and "very smart."



Read more: Police: Suspect in Jessica Ridgeway murder is 17-year-old boy - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21844711/arrest-made-jessica-ridgeway-case#ixzz2Aw9NkwMd
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

otto
10-31-2012, 11:15 PM
http://www.denverpost.com/prosperitygospel/ci_4459571

I know this is a very long article but I found it very, very interesting (information about AS's father).

I wonder if AS was an active member of the youth group?

I remember an interview with a girl that knew Austin and I believe she said that they met through church.

"Danni says she dated Sigg twice, first when he was an 8th grader at Wayne Carl Middle School and again when he was a freshman at Standley Lake High School.

"He was so sweet and so kind. I know that heart is still in him. But sometimes things happen that change people," Danni said.

She says they first met at Warehouse: 180 in Arvada, which is a gathering place for Christian teens. It may help explain the small wooden cross Westminster police call a vital clue.

"We went to church together. It wouldn't surprise me if he wore a cross. He always wore a necklace similar to the one in his mug shot," Danni said.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/344512/28/Jessica-Ridgeway-killing-suspect-Austin-Sigg-was-sweet-ex-girlfriend-says

RANCH
10-31-2012, 11:41 PM
school mates made these comments about him being very smart.



She said Sigg was into music and computers and excelled even in advanced courses.



Parmiter and another friend Ashley Philbrook, 18, described Sigg as sweet and "very smart."



Read more: Police: Suspect in Jessica Ridgeway murder is 17-year-old boy - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21844711/arrest-made-jessica-ridgeway-case#ixzz2Aw9NkwMd
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse
I got this from your link.

She said Sigg was into music and computers and excelled even in advanced courses. She said he had always been "a total sweetheart" and a favorite of teachers.


Now I wonder what the "advanced courses" were. Music? Computers? Other?

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21844711/arrest-made-jessica-ridgeway-case#ixzz2Aw9NkwMd

StJohn
10-31-2012, 11:44 PM
O/T Watched the first 5 minutes of "No Country for Old Men" on Bravo tonight. Decided this is "no movie for old women" & quickly switched the channel. LOL

FrayedKnot
11-01-2012, 12:17 AM
O/T Watched the first 5 minutes of "No Country for Old Men" on Bravo tonight. Decided this is "no movie for old women" & quickly switched the channel. LOL

That movie gave me the agita and some very scary dreams for a week. And I think Javier Bardem is so daggum sexy, but in that movie he was pure evil. :eek:

absentia
11-01-2012, 12:17 AM
hindsight being 20/20 and all, I agree, but looking at the picture of him on screen right just makes my neck hairs stand on end and I have to scroll and get the image off my screen. it's a visceral reaction, not mental/intellectual.

Dee10
11-01-2012, 12:29 AM
I believe the newspaper is correct that he may have a previous charge or charges. Makes me wonder about the woman that was found in the creek or if there are other possibilities given the statement he has a previous record.


Juvenile records

Most state open records laws contain an exemption for juvenile records, protective custody and delinquency records.4 (http://www.rcfp.org/private-eyes/notes.html#4) For most juvenile records, access is limited to the juvenile, his or her parents or guardians, or other parties directly involved in a legal matter. Some states, such as Tennessee and Colorado, allow for some
disclosure depending on the age of the juvenile and the severity of the crime.

http://www.rcfp.org/private-eyes/juvenile-records

Dionbrother
11-01-2012, 12:47 AM
Trick or Treating foot traffic was very light in my nearby Englewood neighborhood tonight. Weather was nice but had fewer than a dozen parties at my door. Hate to think this story scared people from a normal holiday night for kids. Last year, the weather was colder and we got slammed with costumed kids.

Dionbrother
11-01-2012, 12:52 AM
I'd guess Austin was into some serious bondage or homosexual porn that freaked his family out. Just never heard of a 15 year old getting treated for porn addiction. We didn't have the internet in the 80s, but if a teen was caught with VHS porn or magazines, it was just a boys-will-be-boys attitude and maybe a light punishment. But if it was some alternative lifestyle material, a counselor would have been notified. Maybe attitudes are different today?

Cashew
11-01-2012, 12:54 AM
ToTing was light her in Superior as well. We did see the Sheriff come through the neighborhood at least once.

eileenhawkeye
11-01-2012, 01:04 AM
No one was trick-or-treating in my state either. That's because we just had a hurricane. It was rescheduled for Monday, because we realize just how important something like that is for kids, and how they wait all year for it. I don't understand why these parents don't go trick-or-treating with their kids. You're telling me that a group of kids, not one parent can go T&Ting with them? What did these parents do other years?

Kids on the East Coast can't go trick-or-treating because their homes are gone, flooding, trees are down, power lines down, etc. Kids in Colorado can't go trick-or-treating because....???

smh
11-01-2012, 01:07 AM
Trick or Treating foot traffic was very light in my nearby Englewood neighborhood tonight. Weather was nice but had fewer than a dozen parties at my door. Hate to think this story scared people from a normal holiday night for kids. Last year, the weather was colder and we got slammed with costumed kids.


ToTing was light her in Superior as well. We did see the Sheriff come through the neighborhood at least once.

Very, very light in Littleton also. Despite having some of the nicest weather I remember in awhile on Halloween.

smh
11-01-2012, 01:29 AM
Kids on the East Coast can't go trick-or-treating because their homes are gone, flooding, trees are down, power lines down, etc. Kids in Colorado can't go trick-or-treating because....???

I know a lot of shopping centers, rec centers, churches were having events also to try to make people feel safer and my guess is that many took advantage of those events. Just guessing though. I really don't know only that there were lots less than previous years.

Foxfire
11-01-2012, 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dionbrother
Trick or Treating foot traffic was very light in my nearby Englewood neighborhood tonight. Weather was nice but had fewer than a dozen parties at my door. Hate to think this story scared people from a normal holiday night for kids. Last year, the weather was colder and we got slammed with costumed kids.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashew
ToTing was light her in Superior as well. We did see the Sheriff come through the neighborhood at least once.


Quote: SMH
Very, very light in Littleton also. Despite having some of the nicest weather I remember in awhile on Halloween.

MOO, the CO community, has suffered a very traumatic reality, and the perception of public safety will not be the same as it was pre-10/05/2012, for many years to come.
Sadly the community is living in a new life's normal. The parents will be much more aware and protective, and the children will be.......

In Westminster on Wednesday night, Nawang Sangmo said the shock and fear of the neighborhood's tragedy is only starting to wear off, more so for her than for her 8-year-old son, Tenzin Amdo, and 7-year-old daughter, Wangmo Amdo.
"It's pretty scary," she said. "I couldn't let them go outside right after, and I'm still afraid when they go outside."


In wake of Jessica's slaying, focus was on a safe and fun Halloween - The Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21896338/police-departments-double-neighborhood-patrols-halloween#ixzz2Aws7x9xL

spamelope
11-01-2012, 02:41 AM
We're over 100 miles from the Denver Metro area, but in Pueblo, there were activities and heavy trick or treating. I know that if there had been no arrest in Jessica's murder, my kids would not have gone trick or treating- I don't care how far from Westminster we are. I enjoy tradition, though, so I was glad to see the kids out running from door to door and having a blast. At about 7 pm, we went to the church. Kind of the best of both worlds....

TreeClimbingGirl
11-01-2012, 02:51 AM
I'd guess Austin was into some serious bondage or homosexual porn that freaked his family out. Just never heard of a 15 year old getting treated for porn addiction. We didn't have the internet in the 80s, but if a teen was caught with VHS porn or magazines, it was just a boys-will-be-boys attitude and maybe a light punishment. But if it was some alternative lifestyle material, a counselor would have been notified. Maybe attitudes are different today?

Hmm....

I don't think Austin is gay, considering his victimology and the fact that he has had at least one girlfriend (many people here seem to think otherwise, I don't know why :waitasec:) Being gay is also not an "alternative lifestyle", in this day in age, and the viewing of gay porn would not be anything that required treatment. Unless, perhaps, it was some kind of faith based counseling.

I think that Austin had an addiction to porn that was affecting his day to day functioning. Most porn addicts also require increasingly extreme and deviant material to achieve stimulation-often material that veers into illegal territory. It is a combination of escalating consumption, and escalating deviancy, that would fit the criteria of a sexual disorder requiring treatment. No clinician is going to treat a 15 year old for any type of sexual disorder unless there is a pretty serious problem.

The pornography counseling is very interesting to me, because it fits right in with what I think may be Austin's underlying pathology-Malignant Narcissim:

Malignant narcissism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are many different manifestations of this particular disorder, but I think this one fits him to a "T":


4. THE SEXUAL NARCISSIST is often hypersexual (male or female). Pornography, masturbation, incest are reported by his targets. Anything, anyone, young, old, male/female, are there for his gratification. This predator takes what is available. Can have a preference for 'sado-maso' sexuality. Often easily bored, he demands increasingly deviant stimulation.

(Source: http://www.drirene.com/catbox/index.php?showtopic=40676)

When he told LE that he dismembered Jessica because killing her didn't give him enough "joy", malignant narcissism was the first thing that popped into my head. It is a common trait among serial killers, and I think it goes a long way towards explaining many of Austin's actions and behaviors. And I think that what we have learned about him so far is only the tip of the iceburg.

nikb
11-01-2012, 02:55 AM
I was pretty impressed tonight, I think it's the only time ever I've seen parents trick-or-treating with every child that came. Usually we get at least one group of kids that scare me because they're so young and mostly unsupervised. Spamelope I'm with you, I love the tradition of it, but I also want the kids to be safe. One young girl showed up at our door alone but her Dad was right behind her, she was just running door to door when she managed to get her hand free from her Dad's. She and all the kids were having so much fun.

Gotta admit it makes me super angry that Jessica and her friends weren't out running around having just as much fun tonight. :( She should have been! But I'm glad that for the most part kids still can and they're mostly pretty supervised from what I could tell.

nikb
11-01-2012, 03:09 AM
As a quick aside on the trick-or-treating I found it funny that it was surprisingly nice weather most of the evening but then POURED down rain at roughly the point the questionable trick-or-treaters would've been coming out. About the time we were thinking "c'mon go to bed already" the kids/teens were running for their homes trying to protect their candy from the sudden rain. I know it's a strange thing to think of but it seemed so child-like, so teen-like even... it made me smile and cry all at once. The awfulness that has happened to these children, both Jessica and AS, it's just hard to even believe. IMO.

TreeClimbingGirl
11-01-2012, 03:13 AM
I was pretty impressed tonight, I think it's the only time ever I've seen parents trick-or-treating with every child that came. Usually we get at least one group of kids that scare me because they're so young and mostly unsupervised. Spamelope I'm with you, I love the tradition of it, but I also want the kids to be safe. One young girl showed up at our door alone but her Dad was right behind her, she was just running door to door when she managed to get her hand free from her Dad's. She and all the kids were having so much fun.

Gotta admit it makes me super angry that Jessica and her friends weren't out running around having just as much fun tonight. :( She should have been! But I'm glad that for the most part kids still can and they're mostly pretty supervised from what I could tell.
I went with my 5 y.o. DD but at her request hung back on the sidewalk while she went up to each house (she wants to be Miss Independent, just like Jessica!) There was one sweet older man who didn't see me though, and became very concerned and asked her if she had anyone watching after her. I overheard him, and came up to the door just to let him know she was being supervised. He seemed quite embarrassed, but I told him "thank you" for looking out for her well-being, even though it was a false alarm. It really warmed my heart, just knowing that there are still people like him in the world willing to stick their necks out to protect our children.

nikb
11-01-2012, 03:14 AM
Disgusted to hear about the sexual assault :(

I was too. I think it wasn't exactly a shock to anyone, IMO, but it still disgusted me.

nikb
11-01-2012, 03:35 AM
I went with my 5 y.o. DD but at her request hung back on the sidewalk while she went up to each house (she wants to be Miss Independent, just like Jessica!) There was one sweet older man who didn't see me though, and became very concerned and asked her if she had anyone watching after her. I overheard him, and came up to the door just to let him know she was being supervised. He seemed quite embarrassed, but I told him "thank you" for looking out for her well-being, even though it was a false alarm. It really warmed my heart, just knowing that there are still people like him in the world willing to stick their necks out to protect our children.

Aw that is sweet, and good! Hope you and your DD had fun. My husband cracks me up because if he answers the door (we trade off between door-answering and dog-calming-down) he always comments on the child's costume (nothing yucky, just stuff like "cool costume!") and then asks "where are your parents? did they dress up? If they did, they should come pick out some candy too." I think it's to make sure there's someone with the kid(s). I'm always pretty happy to see the somewhat embarassed parent(s) step around the corner and pick out some M&Ms or something. I never think to ask that, I'm usually just focused on the kids' costumes and making sure they all get some candy, but I do try and it makes me feel good to know people are watching out for the kids.

johan555
11-01-2012, 04:40 AM
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu282/bessie_06/2pow0if-b.jpg

Foxfire
11-01-2012, 07:44 AM
Woke up thinking about the light turnout of trick-or-treaters on Halloween night in the Westminister and surrounding communities....

Still too early to size up this Austin Sigg with a great deal of exactitude! Well, I will disclose to you a small moment of mental insightfulness I had, when seeing Sigg`s mug shot for the first time yesterday. What I`ve been asking all along, is, or was Jessica`s killer one and the same as the man we`ve been calling the Candy Man? I looked at the police sketch, then gazed at the police photo of Austin. The similarities are there! Been Midnight Rambling these neighborhoods for quite a long time (I thought to myself).

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21844711/arrest-made-jessica-ridgeway-case

spamelope
11-01-2012, 07:52 AM
In wake of Jessica's slaying, focus was on a safe and fun Halloween

Read more: In wake of Jessica's slaying, focus was on a safe and fun Halloween - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_21896338/police-departments-double-neighborhood-patrols-halloween#ixzz2AyGScIqD
Read The Denver Post's Terms of Use of its content: http://www.denverpost.com/termsofuse

Elley Mae
11-01-2012, 07:54 AM
Foxfire, thanks for the link, under sigg's picture I found,

custody report

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/1024/20121024_040226_20121024_115558_austin_sigg_custor y_redacted%20copy.jpg

Does the U at ethnicity mean Ukrainian?

o/t talking out loud do I have to rethink what to put on next census.

cece5300
11-01-2012, 08:11 AM
http://localtvkdvr.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/people-v-sigg-chargingdocument.pdf

Can someone please help me understand why there are 4 1st degree murder charges? Is murder during a kidnapping always classified as 1st degree murder? Is it that type of thing?

forbidn2u2
11-01-2012, 08:15 AM
Foxfire, thanks for the link, under sigg's picture I found,

custody report

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/1024/20121024_040226_20121024_115558_austin_sigg_custor y_redacted%20copy.jpg

Does the U at ethnicity mean Ukrainian?

o/t talking out loud do I have to rethink what to put on next census.

Bolded by me. Not sure, but maybe the U means unknown.

Foxfire
11-01-2012, 08:17 AM
Foxfire, thanks for the link, under sigg's picture I found,

custody report

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/1024/20121024_040226_20121024_115558_austin_sigg_custor y_redacted%20copy.jpg

Does the U at ethnicity mean Ukrainian?

o/t talking out loud do I have to rethink what to put on next census.

Unspecified (U) - (UA) Ukraine info from a YMCA Application & google search ? Not sure if it is applicable..
http://www.scymca.org/files/302.pdf

Elley Mae
11-01-2012, 08:34 AM
Can someone please help me understand why there are 4 1st degree murder charges? Is murder during a kidnapping always classified as 1st degree murder? Is it that type of thing?


http://www.9news.com/news/article/296904/339/Suspect-in-Ridgeway-case-charged-as-adult

"That is based on a death occurring during the commission of one of three separate felonies: robbery, sexual assault and kidnapping. That's first-degree murder - just another type of the same crime."

DylansMom34
11-01-2012, 08:51 AM
Slightly OT. I know a lady who lives a few houses down from Jessica's house. She said that the neighborhood has been trying to reach out to the Ridgeway family and that some of the neighbors carved pumpkins and put them on the porch and yard of the Ridgeway house. She said it looked pretty cool.

Its meloncholy realizing that many people do not know their neighbors. But then a tragedy makes people want to do what they can to ease a neighbor's pain, even in a small way.

Foxfire
11-01-2012, 08:59 AM
For those who missed the Levi Page Show w/Tricia Griffin discussing the Jessicia Ridgeway case.

http://www.spreecast.com/events/jessica-ridgeway-case--2#_=_

threecrazykids
11-01-2012, 09:18 AM
I remember an interview with a girl that knew Austin and I believe she said that they met through church.

"Danni says she dated Sigg twice, first when he was an 8th grader at Wayne Carl Middle School and again when he was a freshman at Standley Lake High School.

"He was so sweet and so kind. I know that heart is still in him. But sometimes things happen that change people," Danni said.

She says they first met at Warehouse: 180 in Arvada, which is a gathering place for Christian teens. It may help explain the small wooden cross Westminster police call a vital clue.

"We went to church together. It wouldn't surprise me if he wore a cross. He always wore a necklace similar to the one in his mug shot," Danni said.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/344512/28/Jessica-Ridgeway-killing-suspect-Austin-Sigg-was-sweet-ex-girlfriend-says


BBM...When she refers to "things happen that change people"...I wonder what is she referring to? Does she know of something that potentially caused this change in AS? I wonder if his friends were aware that things had happened to him and were trying to be a support group...but never saw the "other" side of AS.
It just makes me wonder what she's referring to when she says "things happen". :waitasec:

Foxfire
11-01-2012, 09:47 AM
MOO, Austin Reed Sigg, has a juvenile record and was involved in drugs. More than likely meth related, imo. There seems to be an epidemic of psychopathic personalities created due to chronic meth use.
I would also be more interested in his adolescence pornography addiction and the specific reasons for his required treatment..
Although all ARS juvenile records have been sealed and a gag order issued by the Judge in this case, the truth will eventually come out..imo.
Until then, guess all we can do is state our opinions and rely on the experts that report Austin Reed Sigg's violent, and bizarre deviant behavior rarely occurs with their first or even second victim:


Austin Sigg would be a rarity among teen killers if convicted

"Nobody just wakes up and does this one day," McCrary said.
There must have been earlier evidence, said Roger Depue, a retired chief of behavioral science for the FBI who teaches about violent crime behavior at the University of Virginia and through his company, the Academy Group Inc.
"It usually first involves cruelty to animals," said Depue. "This murder (of Ridgeway) was so violent, so bizarre. The literature shows disturbing patterns of violent fantasies begin at an early age."

Read more: Austin Sigg would be a rarity among teen killers if convicted - The Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21877914/austin-sigg-would-be-rarity-among-teen-killers#ixzz2Ayci32sz

i8mypaint
11-01-2012, 11:23 AM
No one was trick-or-treating in my state either. That's because we just had a hurricane. It was rescheduled for Monday, because we realize just how important something like that is for kids, and how they wait all year for it. I don't understand why these parents don't go trick-or-treating with their kids. You're telling me that a group of kids, not one parent can go T&Ting with them? What did these parents do other years?

Kids on the East Coast can't go trick-or-treating because their homes are gone, flooding, trees are down, power lines down, etc. Kids in Colorado can't go trick-or-treating because....???

Because numerous reports of attempted child abductions. I get them almost weekly from the school district.

absentia
11-01-2012, 11:25 AM
It looks like such a fake smile, it doesn't reach his eyes

It doesn't even reach his mouth properly. It really looks fake and evil. There's something about his eyes that have been making me wonder all along. I don't know enough but it just looks like something isn't connecting. Like a learning disability or brain injury but there are plenty of kids with those that don't have these eyes. They don't appear to be innervated by enough nerves. Droopy or something.

southern_comfort
11-01-2012, 11:44 AM
Because numerous reports of attempted child abductions. I get them almost weekly from the school district.

I think the OP is wondering why parents can't take their kids trick or treating, no matter now many child abduction alerts have come home from the school district. Not send the kids out unsupervised and unescorted while the parents stay at home enjoying the peace and quiet, but put on the old Reeboks and walk a few blocks with them, so they can enjoy Halloween like kids ought to without compromising safety.

mck16
11-01-2012, 11:45 AM
I remember an interview with a girl that knew Austin and I believe she said that they met through church.

"Danni says she dated Sigg twice, first when he was an 8th grader at Wayne Carl Middle School and again when he was a freshman at Standley Lake High School.

"He was so sweet and so kind. I know that heart is still in him. But sometimes things happen that change people," Danni said.

She says they first met at Warehouse: 180 in Arvada, which is a gathering place for Christian teens. It may help explain the small wooden cross Westminster police call a vital clue.

"We went to church together. It wouldn't surprise me if he wore a cross. He always wore a necklace similar to the one in his mug shot," Danni said.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/article/344512/28/Jessica-Ridgeway-killing-suspect-Austin-Sigg-was-sweet-ex-girlfriend-says

What kind of necklace was he wearing in his mug shot? If I recall you could not see it in the published pictures. I am curious to know what he was wearing. jmo

Marnie
11-01-2012, 11:55 AM
The photos are from his instagram account. user name: dohastvath.

He is posing with a GF (?). Looks to be a school dance or something where he wore a suit and tried to color co-ordinate with her?

Anyway, I think he is trying to make an effort to be pleasant and look happy in the photos. Maybe that is his pleasant happy face.

Not everyone has a symmetrical face, in fact most peoples' left eye is higher than their right. (IMO and from extensive observation)

Dionbrother
11-01-2012, 12:04 PM
Hmm....

I don't think Austin is gay, considering his victimology and the fact that he has had at least one girlfriend (many people here seem to think otherwise, I don't know why :waitasec:) Being gay is also not an "alternative lifestyle", in this day in age, and the viewing of gay porn would not be anything that required treatment. Unless, perhaps, it was some kind of faith based counseling.



Just to clarify, I think he's assumed to be gay because he appears and sounds very effeminate. I knew several gay men in high school that had girlfriends, but came out of the closet while in college, although they were so effeminate in their mannerisms, that we'd all known they were gay since the third grade. They were even sexually active with their girlfriends, so maybe bisexual would be the proper term.

Not judging gays in general with the "alternative lifestyle" label(which I lump BDSM types into), since I'm old enough to remember when it was considered a "choice" and even a mental disorder. If Siggs considered himself an "Otaku" (Japanese phrase for anime nerd), he might have seriously been into the Japanese schoolgirl, bondage rape-porn cartoons. That stuff would send any normal adult to the phone for counseling.

It depends on his household and how his family felt about such content. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a faith-based, pray-the-gay-away situation, or the maybe there has been a surge in porn-addiction treatments among teens. We'll likely learn more in the future.

Also, rape is more about power than sex, and if he was bullied by teen girls, killing and molesting a very young girl seems more of an act of revenge against those he felt too impotent to confront in school, regardless of his sexual orientation.

Or as Chris Rock once said "Whatever happened to just being CRAZY!"

i8mypaint
11-01-2012, 12:15 PM
I think the OP is wondering why parents can't take their kids trick or treating, no matter now many child abduction alerts have come home from the school district. Not send the kids out unsupervised and unescorted while the parents stay at home enjoying the peace and quiet, but put on the old Reeboks and walk a few blocks with them, so they can enjoy Halloween like kids ought to without compromising safety.

I agree, I took my kid out, I think it has people nervous is all I'm saying.

Daisy1975
11-01-2012, 12:27 PM
The photos are from his instagram account. user name: dohastvath.

He is posing with a GF (?). Looks to be a school dance or something where he wore a suit and tried to color co-ordinate with her?

Anyway, I think he is trying to make an effort to be pleasant and look happy in the photos. Maybe that is his pleasant happy face.

Not everyone has a symmetrical face, in fact most peoples' left eye is higher than their right. (IMO and from extensive observation)

I feel sorry for that girl. I wouldn't want to be in photos with a monster that showed up every time someone googled his name.

Dionbrother
11-01-2012, 12:27 PM
My wife took my 3 year-old son out for his first Trick or Treating last night, and I think he ended up with a huge plunder of candy simply because the activity was so light last night(neighbors just overloaded him with treats). He thought it was the greatest event ever, of course. Can't fathom any parent depriving their kid of that kind of fun just because of a solved crime.

Daisy1975
11-01-2012, 12:33 PM
My wife took my 3 year-old son out for his first Trick or Treating last night, and I think he ended up with a huge plunder of candy simply because the activity was so light last night(neighbors just overloaded him with treats). He thought it was the greatest event ever, of course. Can't fathom any parent depriving their kid of that kind of fun just because of a solved crime.

I took my 3 year old too :) She had a great time. Not letting some 17 year old Monster change our traditions.

DylansMom34
11-01-2012, 12:35 PM
We had quite a few kids...my guess would be around 100. Of course, my neighbor goes all out and fixes up his front yard and driveway with zombies, smoke machine, etc. so we get lots of trick or treater's because we live next to the "awesome" house lol.

It seems things in our neighborhood were about the same as other years, except I definitely saw many more parents last night.

missalicemay
11-01-2012, 12:37 PM
O/T Watched the first 5 minutes of "No Country for Old Men" on Bravo tonight. Decided this is "no movie for old women" & quickly switched the channel. LOL

StJ, do you live on St. John? One of my favorite places in the world...so beautiful.

nikb
11-01-2012, 12:42 PM
http://i656.photobucket.com/albums/uu282/bessie_06/2pow0if-b.jpg

Great pic! Hmm... I think this might be close to the one that confused me on the pool thing. There was a personal water craft mentioned in some of the legal docs that had to be sold along with the motorhome shortly before AS mom's bankruptcy. I pictured something like a "Jet-Ski" but maybe it was actually a boat. The size of the object in this pic looks too big to be a Jet-Ski type thing.

As far as the pool, I've thought it was the rectangular concrete thing behind the house, but the white square above it threw me off. After seeing Otto's pics, I think maybe it's an upstairs deck/patio blocking part of the pool in aerial pics, but there's also that rounded 'thing' behind it, sort of peanut shaped, that looks closer to what I picture a pool looking like, at least here in California - more rounded and darker. I could be seeing it completely wrong though.

No real opinions to add I guess but just some thoughts.

smh
11-01-2012, 12:43 PM
The Denver Post showed a picture of kids trick or treating at the Denver police station (I think, already threw my paper away). They apparently hold an event every year but it sounded like a decent turn out last night. I really think people just chose to attend organized events rather than going around the neighborhood.

For whomever said that CO has forever been changed, I agree with you. I'm sure next year will be much better and more relaxed. But Jessica's murder and all these other attempted abductions are just too fresh on our hearts and minds. I do not blame parents one bit for the way they are feeling.

Daisy1975
11-01-2012, 12:43 PM
Since the documents have all been sealed, does anyone know if that means they will be released as the trial progresses, or after the trial? Or perhaps not at all? I am not interested in gruesome details, but it's only natural that the public is interested in the information the police have. If only to help protect our children and learn from it in the future.

nikb
11-01-2012, 12:45 PM
Can someone please help me understand why there are 4 1st degree murder charges? Is murder during a kidnapping always classified as 1st degree murder? Is it that type of thing?

I can't help you understand probably, sorry! Only because it confuses me as well. In the few cases I've followed that turned out to be homicides there were numerous charges of murder when just one person was killed, for some reason. Completely guessing as I have no expertise in this area, but I'm thinking maybe they put whatever charges they think they can possibly get, in order to be able to negotiate later but still keep the person in prison. Maybe murder, aggravated murder, murder with kidnapping, etc. are all legally/technically different charges?

I've mentioned it briefly here on the forum, I'm forgetting which thread now, but my husband's friend was in prison for awhile due to possessing (and I think selling though he's never admitted it at least to me) prescription painkillers. NO I don't think it's ok but I take some comfort in the fact that it's not what I'd consider a violent crime. Anyway he was originally charged with a dozen or so felonies. Some of them seemed so redundant and some were pretty off the wall to me. Once the lawyers were done doing their thing it was down to a few, and once the fake "prison time" kicked in (where every day equals quite a few real days), what was supposedly a 10+ year sentence turned into just a bit over a year. I hope that they're way less lenient when it comes to violent crime, but I don't know. I suspect that especially for offenses as disgusting as this one, they throw as many charges at the person as possible, so that as many as possible will stick.

georgiagirl
11-01-2012, 12:46 PM
Just to clarify, I think he's assumed to be gay because he appears and sounds very effeminate. I knew several gay men in high school that had girlfriends, but came out of the closet while in college, although they were so effeminate in their mannerisms, that we'd all known they were gay since the third grade. They were even sexually active with their girlfriends, so maybe bisexual would be the proper term.

Not judging gays in general with the "alternative lifestyle" label(which I lump BDSM types into), since I'm old enough to remember when it was considered a "choice" and even a mental disorder. If Siggs considered himself an "Otaku" (Japanese phrase for anime nerd), he might have seriously been into the Japanese schoolgirl, bondage rape-porn cartoons. That stuff would send any normal adult to the phone for counseling.

It depends on his household and how his family felt about such content. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a faith-based, pray-the-gay-away situation, or the maybe there has been a surge in porn-addiction treatments among teens. We'll likely learn more in the future.

Also, rape is more about power than sex, and if he was bullied by teen girls, killing and molesting a very young girl seems more of an act of revenge against those he felt too impotent to confront in school, regardless of his sexual orientation.

Or as Chris Rock once said "Whatever happened to just being CRAZY!"

BBM

OMG! I swear I was just thinking about that standup routine by Chris Rock yesterday! I think it's called Bigger and Blacker. Anyway, not to get a racial debate started but I remember it was a few years after Columbine and he talks about how he is scared of "young white boys". LOL He said he was on an elevator and two young white boys stepped on and he just dove off saying "Y'all ain't killing me!". They wanted him to come talk to the kids at an all white high school he said "You got a bullet proof vest? Maybe I'll think about it!". Of course this is not a laughing matter but I thought it was funny how he pointed out it seems like the young white boys are committing these awful crimes mostly.

nikb
11-01-2012, 12:47 PM
The photos are from his instagram account. user name: dohastvath.

He is posing with a GF (?). Looks to be a school dance or something where he wore a suit and tried to color co-ordinate with her?

Anyway, I think he is trying to make an effort to be pleasant and look happy in the photos. Maybe that is his pleasant happy face.

Not everyone has a symmetrical face, in fact most peoples' left eye is higher than their right. (IMO and from extensive observation)

Good point, I've known a number of people who look great on camera as long as it's not a posed photo, as soon as they're asked to smile they look anywhere from not-so-great to ridiculous. And of course who has a great mugshot pic right? But that said I'm creeped out by AS' pics too.

nikb
11-01-2012, 12:50 PM
My wife took my 3 year-old son out for his first Trick or Treating last night, and I think he ended up with a huge plunder of candy simply because the activity was so light last night(neighbors just overloaded him with treats). He thought it was the greatest event ever, of course. Can't fathom any parent depriving their kid of that kind of fun just because of a solved crime.

Aww. Glad he had fun. I dunno, might've been the light turnout, but I always tend to load up the first-time-trick-or-treaters with lots of candy too. :)

otto
11-01-2012, 01:05 PM
Sometimes, men that do what Austin did start with peeping, or doing other inappropriate things ... something that may be in a sealed juvenile record. I'm wondering if the counseling that he received at the age of 15 may have been court ordered. I'm also wondering if he did something at school, like accessing porn, that led to the counseling.

b2alicia
11-01-2012, 01:13 PM
My neighborhood is about 3 miles away from Witt Elementary School, and I wondered about how many trick or treaters would come. Usually it seems like HUNDREDS. So I made sure to have my lights on, and my plastic pumpkin lit up, and the storm door open. Even had my big standard poodle dressed up in his Halloween outfit, right at the front door.

I think the crowd may have been a little bit smaller, but it was really a very happy thing. Seeing all the princesses, and fairies, and spidermen trick or treating, petting my doggie, and the moms and dads waving from the sidewalk, well, it was a good thing.

Today someone from my neighborhood posted their gratitude on their facebook page, thanking our neighbors for making this a wonderful halloween for all the kids.

Marnie
11-01-2012, 01:21 PM
Looks like it may be a BBQ, but that definitely looks like kindling! Nothing else seems to be neatly stacked or arranged in that yard.

It's such a shame, IMO. The parents bought the house and made renovations. The top deck, the spiral staircase down to the pool... things that may indicate that they were going to have a nice life together there. From the condition of the yard, I'd say that dream faded quite a while ago.

Now, poor Jessica is gone and a 17 yr. old is locked up for her murder. So many people whose lives have been ruined.

nikb
11-01-2012, 01:23 PM
Sometimes, men that do what Austin did start with peeping, or doing other inappropriate things ... something that may be in a sealed juvenile record. I'm wondering if the counseling that he received at the age of 15 may have been court ordered. I'm also wondering if he did something at school, like accessing porn, that led to the counseling.

BBM I hadn't thought of that before, IMO that actually makes a lot of sense. I have no idea if he was viewing porn at all, or what type if he was, but viewing just about any of it at school could lead to counseling.

otto
11-01-2012, 01:36 PM
This is what I see when I look at the backyard

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/siggpool2.jpg

(apologies to the person that originally found this screen shot in the video ... can't give credit where credit is due because I don't remember who posted it anymore)

I think the text is a bit too big ... oops

gliving
11-01-2012, 01:38 PM
BBM I hadn't thought of that before, IMO that actually makes a lot of sense. I have no idea if he was viewing porn at all, or what type if he was, but viewing just about any of it at school could lead to counseling.

I thought I read that he was using his mother's credit card to buy the PPV porn stuff. That's what got him in porn trouble. It was in one of the first articles about him.

Thinking about his computer skills, he may have copied and distributed the porn to others.

otto
11-01-2012, 01:39 PM
i have a question about this pic is it a BBQ or a (wood) oven/stove ?



Yes, that looks like a BBQ under the deck.

StJohn
11-01-2012, 01:43 PM
StJ, do you live on St. John? One of my favorite places in the world...so beautiful.

No, just vacation there - love the unspoiled beauty! Maybe will live there one day if I win the lottery :)

johan555
11-01-2012, 01:50 PM
Nikb that "unidentifiable thing" is an FBI agent

nikb
11-01-2012, 01:53 PM
This is what I see when I look at the backyard

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/siggpool2.jpg

<snipped for space>

Otto, I mostly see the same things you're seeing, but what do you think about that white exterior door? If you look at the other pic posted by Johan555 recently and that I've commented on a few times, do you think that door might be on the second level? It kind of looks like it to me, but maybe there are doors on both levels? The pile of leaves out in front of the door, particularly in Johan555's post, makes me think it hasn't been used in awhile, but hard to say.

Marah
11-01-2012, 01:54 PM
Looks like from those other pics posted of him that he doesn't have that condition mentioned earlier where the whites of his eyes show underneath? Does any remember some people saying that? Anyway, he was probably looking up in his booking pic and that is why??

kkdj
11-01-2012, 01:56 PM
Someone mentioned that AS took drugs. Is there a link stating this?
Is there any knowledge if he had a drug of choice or just did an array of drugs?
The kids in HS in my area get ahold of prescription meds and take them or an assortment together. Pretty scary! One of the HS is nicknamed "the pharmacy"!

nursebeeme
11-01-2012, 01:59 PM
Someone mentioned that AS took drugs. Is there a link stating this?
Is there any knowledge if he had a drug of choice or just did an array of drugs?
The kids in HS in my area get ahold of prescription meds and take them or an assortment together. Pretty scary! One of the HS is nicknamed "the pharmacy"!

that was speculation

nikb
11-01-2012, 02:01 PM
Is that a person by the corner of the fence? AS? Wearing a mask?

Looks to me like an LE person with a mustache and maybe looking up, so the angle looks kind of strange?

IHAVENOCLUE
11-01-2012, 02:04 PM
Is that a person by the corner of the fence? AS? Wearing a mask?

this is reminding me of a Rorschach Test! :giggle:

that object in the corner looks like a uniformed man with a mustache?
:waitasec:

JMO

nursebeeme
11-01-2012, 02:05 PM
reminder: if you guys are going to post pictures that is great... but they must also have a link to where they came from... just a friendly reminder.

otto
11-01-2012, 02:07 PM
Otto, I mostly see the same things you're seeing, but what do you think about that white exterior door? If you look at the other pic posted by Johan555 recently and that I've commented on a few times, do you think that door might be on the second level? It kind of looks like it to me, but maybe there are doors on both levels? The pile of leaves out in front of the door, particularly in Johan555's post, makes me think it hasn't been used in awhile, but hard to say.

I'm sure that the white exterior door is on ground level.

enzeder
11-01-2012, 02:09 PM
reminder: if you guys are going to post pictures that is great... but they must also have a link to where they came from... just a friendly reminder.

Should I remove that pic I just posted nursebeeme? .. Trouble is that I'm always saving pic's to my computer when I come across them, not intending to post them here, and consequently don't make a record of the link to go with the pic. Also a lot of the pic's I've saved are screen shots from videos. :(

nikb
11-01-2012, 02:12 PM
Someone mentioned that AS took drugs. Is there a link stating this?
Is there any knowledge if he had a drug of choice or just did an array of drugs?
The kids in HS in my area get ahold of prescription meds and take them or an assortment together. Pretty scary! One of the HS is nicknamed "the pharmacy"!

While I totally agree with you on the scariness of this trend , I think the craziest one I've heard of is "Skittles parties" where kids basically empty out their own stash plus their parents' medicine cabinets into a candy bowl, so you might have anything from Vicodin to Xanax to Aspirin or blood pressure meds, all in the same bowl. I haven't seen anything indicating AS was on drugs. Other than maybe the fact that none of us can comprehend this crime if he wasn't :(

Marnie
11-01-2012, 02:14 PM
I'm sure that the white exterior door is on ground level.

I agree. It probably allows entrance to a hallway with access to the familyromm/fire place, the garage and a short flight of steps to the kitchen.

There's got to be a sliding glass door or something under that deck leading into the family room w/fireplace. The wood for the fireplace would be stored under the deck, IMO. If not...very strange building arrangement.

missalicemay
11-01-2012, 02:15 PM
this is reminding me of a Rorschach Test! :giggle:

that object in the corner looks like a uniformed man with a mustache?
:waitasec:

JMO

Ha, you could be right. Crappy software and shadows I guess. It looks like the same person is in enzeder's pic.

nikb
11-01-2012, 02:17 PM
I'm sure that the white exterior door is on ground level.

Oh! You're right. I can't believe I just posted about how it can sometimes be hard to see the angle, and then I looked at the pic again and realized this door's on ground level but threw me off because of the height of the fence and the person (LE I think?) walking next to it.

kkdj
11-01-2012, 02:21 PM
While I totally agree with you on the scariness of this trend - I think the craziest one I've heard of is "Skittles parties" where kids basically empty out their own stash plus their parents' medicine cabinets into a candy bowl, so you might have anything from Vicodin to Xanax to Aspirin or blood pressure meds, all in the same bowl - I haven't seen anything indicating AS was on drugs. Other than maybe the fact that none of us can comprehend this crime if he wasn't :(

I have heard of the skittles parties also. I'm surprised we don't hear about more trips to the ER and stomaches being pumped!
I agree with you. I can't imagine someone committing this crime without being under the influence of something. Could just be something went seriously screwy in the brain though. But I would certainly think there would be signs of deterioration.
Jmo

nikb
11-01-2012, 02:24 PM
Nikb that "unidentifiable thing" is an FBI agent

Sorry, I should've been more descriptive in the "unidentifiable thing" :) I didn't mean the FBI agent, I was talking about the tan/white thing next to the potential kindling, also somewhat underneath the pine tree nearby. Unless you think that white/tan thing is the FBI agent... if it is, I need to get in to see the eye doc! Which is probably overdue.

Marnie
11-01-2012, 02:30 PM
Yes, that looks like a BBQ under the deck.

In one of the photos, a poster mentioned a powerwasher. I agree. My powerwasher looks the same..it also allows for you to add any cleaning solution you would like eg: BLEACH?

Also in an earlier photo, I could have sworn there was a hot tub in the left hand corner of the yard....some thought it was a trampoline. (It's not the round sitting area, it was dark like it was covered).

Not to be real gory, but a hot tub in a fenced yard with a power washer filled with a bleach solution, sure could be a possible murder scene, kwim???

nikb
11-01-2012, 02:37 PM
I have heard of the skittles parties also. I'm surprised we don't hear about more trips to the ER and stomaches being pumped!
I agree with you. I can't imagine someone committing this crime without being under the influence of something. Could just be something went seriously screwy in the brain though. But I would certainly think there would be signs of deterioration.
Jmo

Re: the Skittles parties I know, seriously. I can't believe it's not reported more. Re: the ER, from my limited experience, a few broken bones, I wonder if the drugs are mostly out of the kids' systems by the time someone gets to them. If I was sitting there for 8+ hours with a severely broken leg before I could even get an ice pack, I imagine those who come in with "unknown drug OD" probably aren't on the top of the list.

ETA: I know when they did triage I was 'ahead' of the kids/teens who probably needed their stomaches pumped, but it was pretty obvious those kids went to the bottom of the list for the most part. It's no criticism of the medical staff, they do what they have to when they have such limited staffing IMO, but it surprised me for sure.

I agree, I think something went seriously wrong/screwy! IMO... Legal or illegal who knows. Sudden or over time who knows. Injury, brain tumor, drug induced, just plain messed up from day 1? Something is way, way wrong though.

kkdj
11-01-2012, 02:43 PM
Re: the Skittles parties I know, seriously. I can't believe it's not reported more. Re: the ER, from my limited experience, a few broken bones, I wonder if the drugs are mostly out of the kids' systems by the time someone gets to them. If I was sitting there for 8+ hours with a severly broken leg, I imagine those who come in with "unknown drug OD" probably aren't on the top of the list.

I agree, I think something went seriously wrong/screwy! IMO... Legal or illegal who knows. Sudden or over time who knows. Injury, brain tumor, drug induced, just plain messed up from day 1? Something is way, way wrong though.

This might be kinda out there, but could the candy man, who some are speculating might be AS, be offering "skittles?"
Could the candy he is offering actually be drugs, but the young kids have no clue? Sounds kinda far fetched, but some of the pharmacy drug suppliers around here are called candy man.

PlainJaneDoe
11-01-2012, 03:01 PM
I have heard of the skittles parties also. I'm surprised we don't hear about more trips to the ER and stomaches being pumped!
I agree with you. I can't imagine someone committing this crime without being under the influence of something. Could just be something went seriously screwy in the brain though. But I would certainly think there would be signs of deterioration.
Jmo

When I was young, we called them pharm parties. :seeya:

nikb
11-01-2012, 03:07 PM
In one of the photos, a poster mentioned a powerwasher. I agree. My powerwasher looks the same..it also allows for you to add any cleaning solution you would like eg: BLEACH?

Also in an earlier photo, I could have sworn there was a hot tub in the left hand corner of the yard....some thought it was a trampoline. (It's not the round sitting area, it was dark like it was covered).

Not to be real gory, but a hot tub in a fenced yard with a power washer filled with a bleach solution, sure could be a possible murder scene, kwim???

Yeah.. that was me with the power washer reference.Thanks for replying. I can't recall the brand and I guess it doesn't really matter, but I'm almost sure we have the same one - for some reason they're pretty distinctive, I even notice if a neighbor has one. If so yes, you can put just about anything into it as a cleaner. I'm sure bleach would shorten the lifespan of the washer, but if one was used and especially in this circumstance, would the person putting bleach into it care? I'm thinking probably not. Ugh. I hate thinking or typing that kind of stuff.

GrainneDhu
11-01-2012, 03:08 PM
While I totally agree with you on the scariness of this trend , I think the craziest one I've heard of is "Skittles parties" where kids basically empty out their own stash plus their parents' medicine cabinets into a candy bowl, so you might have anything from Vicodin to Xanax to Aspirin or blood pressure meds, all in the same bowl. I haven't seen anything indicating AS was on drugs. Other than maybe the fact that none of us can comprehend this crime if he wasn't :(

I strongly suspect that this is urban legend, come to life again. I heard the very same urban legend in the 1960s except for the name Skittles. It wasn't true then and I strongly doubt that it is true now.

I think it's like fashion, wait around long enough and the same things come back in a slightly changed form. Otherwise known as "don't throw away a cashmere sweater."

nikb
11-01-2012, 03:31 PM
I strongly suspect that this is urban legend, come to life again. I heard the very same urban legend in the 1960s except for the name Skittles. It wasn't true then and I strongly doubt that it is true now.

I think it's like fashion, wait around long enough and the same things come back in a slightly changed form. Otherwise known as "don't throw away a cashmere sweater."

ETA: this is all personal experience and I suppose borderline speculation, even though I don't think that drugs are/were an issue from what I've read so far. If it doesn't belong on this thread, my apologies and I'll delete it no problem.

Respectfully, while I wish I could agree with you I've unfortunately heard of it pretty directly, and I think I inadvertandly saw it once. I once went to a party where I was wondering why the candy was such different shapes and was surprised to see white ones, also confused about why people were so completely obsessed with the candy, and acting so weird! Thankful I didn't try any out.

I think you're right about these parties probably being around for awhile and just having a new name. I DO think they happen, though, not just urban legend, IMO. (and thank you for the reminder to hang onto my legwarmers and neon bracelets for just a bit longer, unless they're already out of fashion again ;) )

It makes me wonder if the urban legend preceded people actually doing it? Here's a little more info, hopefully an ok link: http://stopteendrugs.com/2011/09/01/skittle-parties/. And one more:
http://www.narconon.org/blog/narconon/skittles-party-by-teens-is-not-what-it-seems/

Again NOT that I think, and for sure I don't know, if AS had any link to any of these drugs, it was just something that caught my attention.

kkdj
11-01-2012, 03:33 PM
I strongly suspect that this is urban legend, come to life again. I heard the very same urban legend in the 1960s except for the name Skittles. It wasn't true then and I strongly doubt that it is true now.

I think it's like fashion, wait around long enough and the same things come back in a slightly changed form. Otherwise known as "don't throw away a cashmere sweater."

I hope you are right. But I do think with some youth the ingesting of mixed pharmaceuticals is happening.
I have (had) a family member who fresh out of high school started taking and eventually mixing pharmacy drugs. Last year he committed suicide while under the influence. He was 20.

nursebeeme
11-01-2012, 03:37 PM
folks.. keep in mind that any discussion of drugs is speculation and should clearly be marked as such. There is nothing in the media that says that drugs are involved in this case. Also: there is nothing in the media to indicate that Sigg is a serial killer and we are not going to try and compare him to other serial killers. Stick to what has been reported on. It may not be much at this time but that is the way it goes folks. We are now in the justice phase here. And again a reminder about pictures: if you post a picture it has to have a link. If you took a screen shot than you link to the video you took the screen shot from.

Thanks everyone.

nikb
11-01-2012, 03:39 PM
I hope you are right. But I do think with some youth the ingesting of mixed pharmaceuticals is happening.
I have (had) a family member who fresh out of high school started taking and eventually mixing pharmacy drugs. Last year he committed suicide while under the influence. He was 20.

I'm so sorry to hear that about your family member! I agree with you, I think it's more common now. Maybe I've just gotten more aware, I don't know. I've heard of so many stories in the last year or so of people either OD'ing or thinkning about OD'ing on prescription drugs, though.

ETA: in light of Nurse's post and something I probably should've said up front, I have NO IDEA if AS was involved with drugs at all. I actually don't think so, but I wanted to clarify. I was talking very generally.

Marnie
11-01-2012, 03:41 PM
Yeah.. that was me with the power washer reference.Thanks for replying. I can't recall the brand and I guess it doesn't really matter, but I'm almost sure we have the same one - for some reason they're pretty distinctive, I even notice if a neighbor has one. If so yes, you can put just about anything into it as a cleaner. I'm sure bleach would shorten the lifespan of the washer, but if one was used and especially in this circumstance, would the person putting bleach into it care? I'm thinking probably not. Ugh. I hate thinking or typing that kind of stuff.

Thanks nikb. Most GAS powered power washers look the same as the one we are hypothesising is seen in the photo. Electric ones look different. Naturally a gas one, could only be used outdoors with ventilation, but my son has used it in the garage with the doors and windows opened...it has a LONG hose. Some garages have drains in the floor. Some garages actually have a utility sink and/or house the washer/dryer.

Thing is, these new photos of the yard are recent with (to me) obvious LE presence. You would think that they would have hauled off the power washer if it was suspected of being used in any manner, shape or form in this crime....so I'm deep-sixing that idea.

And "Yes", I don't think anyone using one for what we are thinking, would care about the destructive nature bleach would cause to the machine.

Elley Mae
11-01-2012, 03:55 PM
I think a plea deal will be reached. No trial. jmo

kkdj
11-01-2012, 03:55 PM
I'm so sorry to hear that about your family member! I agree with you, I think it's more common now. Maybe I've just gotten more aware, I don't know. I've heard of so many stories in the last year or so of people either OD'ing or thinkning about OD'ing on prescription drugs, though.

ETA: in light of Nurse's post and something I probably should've said up front, I have NO IDEA if AS was involved with drugs at all. I actually don't think so, but I wanted to clarify. I was talking very generally.

I also have no idea if AS was using drugs. I just want to clarify that.
But something's not right with that boy!
Jmo

kkdj
11-01-2012, 04:29 PM
I think a plea deal will be reached. No trial. jmo

Agreed

nursebeeme
11-01-2012, 04:38 PM
http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/user/crankycrankerson/library/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/

bumping up case archive by Amandareckonwith (for those who want to discuss pictures: these are all linked up with msm links)

Marnie
11-01-2012, 04:49 PM
http://i45.tinypic.com/11hv3oy.jpg

Quoting from the previous poster....I take umbrage with the "oven" remark, but there is value in the photograph. I believe the photos may be public domain.

OT, but when I had a creepy neighbor photographing my son, I was told by LE that as long as the photographer was not using Zoom into my house..or in other words, invading personal/private space, he was allowed to photograph anything outside my doors.

I circled in yellow THE LAUNDRY ROOM...... EXHAUST VENTS!!!!!

The laundry room was right off of the garage if not in it! UTILITY sink!!!


grrr...gonna get edited

ETA: checking Amanda's photos to make sure this wasn't photoshopped.

otto
11-01-2012, 04:57 PM
Quoting from the previous poster....I take umbrage with the "oven" remark, but there is value in the photograph. I believe the photos may be public domain.

OT, but when I had a creepy neighbor photographing my son, I was told by LE that as long as the photographer was not using Zoom into my house..or in other words, invading personal/private space, he was allowed to photograph anything outside my doors.

I circled in yellow THE LAUNDRY ROOM...... EXHAUST VENTS!!!!!

The laundry room was right off of the garage if not in it! UTILITY sink!!!


grrr...gonna get edited

Thanks ... I'll add the laundry to the "roughed in" interior floor plan.

SapphireSteel
11-01-2012, 05:00 PM
ARS is accused of the Ketner Park attempt, which LE believe was the same perp as an earlier failed Ketner Park attempt way back in June/July 2010 IIRC.

That's over 2 years ago so if he's 17 now, he was only 15 in 2010. I wonder if somehow his parents knew/suspected his activities and that is why the "sexual addiction counselling" started at 15?

This kid has been active for a very long time...and from a very young age.

I can't help but think that there have been blind eyes turned by a lot of people. You don't just get up one day and attempt to kidnap a grown adult when you're 15 unless there has been some serious escalation beforehand.

Thank God his mother turned him in this time.

Questions need to be asked about his past, and the adults in his past, about who knew what when.

Did his parents/counsellor KNOW about the 2010 attempt? And if so, should they be prosecuted for not reporting this crime?

:banghead:

johan555
11-01-2012, 05:02 PM
http://i50.tinypic.com/70xan5.jpg


the original link to this pic = http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home-copter.jpg

Marnie
11-01-2012, 05:03 PM
From AmandaReckonWith's album:

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/102412h5.jpg

Exhaust outlets NOT photoshopped!!

DylansMom34
11-01-2012, 05:04 PM
ARS is accused of the Ketner Park attempt, which LE believe was the same perp as an earlier failed Ketner Park attempt way back in June/July 2010 IIRC.

That's over 2 years ago so if he's 17 now, he was only 15 in 2010. I wonder if somehow his parents knew/suspected his activities and that is why the "sexual addiction counselling" started at 15?

This kid has been active for a very long time...and from a very young age.

I can't help but think that there have been blind eyes turned by a lot of people. You don't just get up one day and attempt to kidnap a grown adult when you're 15 unless there has been some serious escalation beforehand.

Thank God his mother turned him in this time.

Questions need to be asked about his past, and the adults in his past, about who knew what when.

Did his parents/counsellor KNOW about the 2010 attempt? And if so, should they be prosecuted for not reporting this crime?

:banghead:

Has law enforcement actually tied him to the 2010 attempt? Maybe they have reason to believe he was involved and just don't have enough to charge him with it.

Or, could it be, that he heard about the 2010 attempt and did a copycat in 2012?

nursebeeme
11-01-2012, 05:05 PM
http://i45.tinypic.com/11hv3oy.jpg

Quoting from the previous poster....I take umbrage with the "oven" remark, but there is value in the photograph. I believe the photos may be public domain.

OT, but when I had a creepy neighbor photographing my son, I was told by LE that as long as the photographer was not using Zoom into my house..or in other words, invading personal/private space, he was allowed to photograph anything outside my doors.

I circled in yellow THE LAUNDRY ROOM...... EXHAUST VENTS!!!!!

The laundry room was right off of the garage if not in it! UTILITY sink!!!


grrr...gonna get edited

ETA: checking Amanda's photos to make sure this wasn't photoshopped.

bbm:
if you got the picture from the case archive it is linked. No worries.
(just link under the picture to the case archive or say: taken from case archive)

also: the case archive is linked (in purple) in the Opening Post of the thread.

nursebeeme
11-01-2012, 05:05 PM
Has law enforcement actually tied him to the 2010 attempt? Maybe they have reason to believe he was involved and just don't have enough to charge him with it.

Or, could it be, that he heard about the 2010 attempt and did a copycat in 2012?

bbm: not that I am aware of:twocents:

SapphireSteel
11-01-2012, 05:06 PM
Has law enforcement actually tied him to the 2010 attempt? Maybe they have reason to believe he was involved and just don't have enough to charge him with it.

Or, could it be, that he heard about the 2010 attempt and did a copycat in 2012?

Others probably have a link but IIRC the police did link the attacks.

:cow:

nursebeeme
11-01-2012, 05:08 PM
Others probably have a link but IIRC the police did link the attacks.

:cow:

where?
And if they are positively linked and he was charged for one (if that is the case) why wasn't he charged for the other?

I have seen the media basically try to tie anything unsolved to this kid.. but not the police.

If you look at the WPD twitter and facebook links they only refer to the memorial day incident. (the official source of information for the case)

https://www.facebook.com/westminsterpolice (oct 22 post linking the memorial day incident)

KaaBoom
11-01-2012, 05:09 PM
Can someone please help me understand why there are 4 1st degree murder charges? Is murder during a kidnapping always classified as 1st degree murder? Is it that type of thing?

They are different counts of the same charge. So the jury will be able to pick and choose which one, they want to convict him of. It increases the likelihood of a conviction. For example if the jury members can't all agree that he intended to kill the girl, they can find him guilty of one of the other counts instead.


COUNT 1~MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE (F1)
On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully, feloniously,
after deliberation, and with the intent to cause the death of a person
other than himself, caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway; in violation
of section 18-3-102(1)(a), C.R.S.

COUNT 2-MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE (Fl)
On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully and
feloniously, acting alone, committed kidnapping, and in the course of
or in furtherance of that crime, caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway,
not a participant in the crime; in violation of section 18-3-
102(1)(b), C.R.S.

COUNT 3-MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE (F1)
On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully and
feloniously, acting alone, committed robbery, and in the course of or
in furtherance of that crime, caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway,
not a participant in the crime; in violation of section 18-3-
lO2(1)(b), C.R.S.

COUNT 4-MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE (Fl)
On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully and
feloniously, acting alone, committed sexual assault, and in the course
of or in furtherance of that crime, caused the death of Jessica
Ridgeway, not a participant in the crime; in violation of section 18-
3-102(1)(b), C.R.S.

nikb
11-01-2012, 05:10 PM
http://i45.tinypic.com/11hv3oy.jpg

Quoting from the previous poster....I take umbrage with the "oven" remark, but there is value in the photograph. I believe the photos may be public domain.

OT, but when I had a creepy neighbor photographing my son, I was told by LE that as long as the photographer was not using Zoom into my house..or in other words, invading personal/private space, he was allowed to photograph anything outside my doors.

I circled in yellow THE LAUNDRY ROOM...... EXHAUST VENTS!!!!!

The laundry room was right off of the garage if not in it! UTILITY sink!!!


grrr...gonna get edited

ETA: checking Amanda's photos to make sure this wasn't photoshopped.

First off I'm so glad your son's ok, what a horrible experience!

FWIW I think you're right on the laundry room, although sometimes if it's been moved the location of the exterior vents might've changed or there could be more than one set of vents.

I also definitely agree with the assessment on the other pic about the spark arrestor for the fireplace. When we bought our house quite a few years ago and it didn't have one, it was one of the first things both our realtor and home inspector pointed out.

Not so sure about the oven though. Is it common to have an oven built in like that in CO? Where I live it'd be rare, so just wondering.

nikb
11-01-2012, 05:16 PM
They are different counts of the same charge. So the jury will be able to pick and choose which one, they want to convict him of. It increases the likelihood of a conviction. For example if the jury members can't all agree that he intended to kill the girl, they can find him guilty of one of the other counts instead.


COUNT 1~MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE (F1)
On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully, feloniously,
after deliberation, and with the intent to cause the death of a person
other than himself, caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway; in violation
of section 18-3-102(1)(a), C.R.S.

COUNT 2-MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE (Fl)
On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully and
feloniously, acting alone, committed kidnapping, and in the course of
or in furtherance of that crime, caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway,
not a participant in the crime; in violation of section 18-3-
102(1)(b), C.R.S.

COUNT 3-MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE (F1)
On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully and
feloniously, acting alone, committed robbery, and in the course of or
in furtherance of that crime, caused the death of Jessica Ridgeway,
not a participant in the crime; in violation of section 18-3-
lO2(1)(b), C.R.S.

COUNT 4-MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE (Fl)
On or about October 5, 2012, AUSTIN REED SIGG unlawfully and
feloniously, acting alone, committed sexual assault, and in the course
of or in furtherance of that crime, caused the death of Jessica
Ridgeway, not a participant in the crime; in violation of section 18-
3-102(1)(b), C.R.S.

Thanks so much for the very detailed description! That's what I thought, but it was helpful seeing it laid out like this.

SapphireSteel
11-01-2012, 05:16 PM
where?
And if they are positively linked and he was charged for one (if that is the case) why wasn't he charged for the other?

I have seen the media basically try to tie anything unsolved to this kid.. but not the police.

If you look at the WPD twitter and facebook links they only refer to the memorial day incident. (the official source of information for the case)

I never said they were positively linked, which is why my post carried a :cow:

I just came back to edit my post to say "police suspect a link" which is what I had read, but you had already quoted me.

:waitasec:

johan555
11-01-2012, 05:17 PM
http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home.jpg


link http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home.jpg

alexandra
11-01-2012, 05:19 PM
I believe the newspaper is correct that he may have a previous charge or charges. Makes me wonder about the woman that was found in the creek or if there are other possibilities given the statement he has a previous record.

http://www.rcfp.org/private-eyes/juvenile-records

I apologize if this has been covered in detail, but speaking of the woman who was found dead in the creek. Did anyone ever find articles that gave her identity? I researched it a while back and was able to only find articles about her body being found and nothing beyond. TIA

foxbluff
11-01-2012, 05:20 PM
couldn't find much about it.....


Sigg's former classmates at Standley Lake High said he was smart and nice and walked and talked to kids who looked like they were alone. He enjoyed computers, liked computer games, helped in the computer lab and bragged about his skills to hack into computer programs.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/jessica-ridgeway/westminster-police-make-major-announcement-in-jessica-ridgeway-abduction-murder-case

My post here is slightly O/T from the subj you were discussing...

BBM - This comment by AS's former classmates just "went all over me." Isn't it odd how somebody's innocent words can be read differently?!?

SapphireSteel
11-01-2012, 05:22 PM
The suspect in the May attack was described as a light-skinned man who ranged in age from 18 to his 30s. He had brown hair, a medium build and was about 5 feet 6 inches to 5 feet 8 inches tall. The man was wearing a dark blue baseball cap, small-rim sunglasses, a black T-shirt and blue jeans.

A similar incident occurred in July 2010, when a man chased a female jogger near the lake. Police said that man's description was similar to the assailant in the jogger attack.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/jessica-ridgeway/westminster-police-make-major-announcement-in-jessica-ridgeway-abduction-murder-case

I personally don't think LE would have used the term "similar" twice (eg, once for the circumstances, then again for the perp) if they didn't have a strong suspicion.

I think they would have used language such as "unsure at this stage".

But hell, what do I know?

:dunno:

Marnie
11-01-2012, 05:27 PM
http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home.jpg


link http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home.jpg

Are now you placing doubt with this photo as to my version of vents being "uplighting?

SapphireSteel
11-01-2012, 05:27 PM
I apologize if this has been covered in detail, but speaking of the woman who was found dead in the creek. Did anyone ever find articles that gave her identity? I researched it a while back and was able to only find articles about her body being found and nothing beyond. TIA

Good question.

I'm wondering if this kid is a seasoned predator.

:furious:

johan555
11-01-2012, 05:29 PM
this was also in the same area

Officials: Human remains found in Colorado are missing Chicago man
May 27, 2012|By Becky Schlikerman | Tribune reporter

http://www.trbimg.com/img-4fc21850/turbine/chi-human-remains-found-at-colorado-camp-linke-001/600

Colorado authorities believe they have found the remains of a Chicago hiker missing since October 2010, according to a news release from the Sheriff's Department in Eagle County, Colorado.

Authorities said a camper found an abandoned campsite near Holy Cross City, a ghost town in the White River National Forest near Minturn, Colo., Friday. The next day, police hiked to the location, apparently the camp site used by James Nelson, 31, of Chicago's Ravenswood neighborhood, and found human remains, authorities said.

Nelson's fiance reported him missing in October 2010 after he failed to return from his five-day, 25-mile hike of the Holy Cross Wilderness Area.

<modsnip>
bschlikerman@tribune.com

Twitter: @schlikerman

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-27/news/chi-human-remains-found-at-colorado-camp-linked-to-missing-chicago-man-20120527_1_chicago-hiker-chicago-man-matthew-frizzell

SapphireSteel
11-01-2012, 05:32 PM
this was also in the same area

Officials: Human remains found in Colorado are missing Chicago man
May 27, 2012|By Becky Schlikerman | Tribune reporter

http://www.trbimg.com/img-4fc21850/turbine/chi-human-remains-found-at-colorado-camp-linke-001/600

Colorado authorities believe they have found the remains of a Chicago hiker missing since October 2010, according to a news release from the Sheriff's Department in Eagle County, Colorado.

Authorities said a camper found an abandoned campsite near Holy Cross City, a ghost town in the White River National Forest near Minturn, Colo., Friday. The next day, police hiked to the location, apparently the camp site used by James Nelson, 31, of Chicago's Ravenswood neighborhood, and found human remains, authorities said.

Nelson's fiance reported him missing in October 2010 after he failed to return from his five-day, 25-mile hike of the Holy Cross Wilderness Area.

<modsnip>
bschlikerman@tribune.com

Twitter: @schlikerman

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-27/news/chi-human-remains-found-at-colorado-camp-linked-to-missing-chicago-man-20120527_1_chicago-hiker-chicago-man-matthew-frizzell


I don't think ARS would attack a fully grown man.

He prefers those weaker than himself, women and children.

My opinion only.
:cow:

DylansMom34
11-01-2012, 05:33 PM
The male remains found in Minturn, is probably 110 miles or so from the remains that were found in the Platte River near Westminster. So a bit of a distance.

johan555
11-01-2012, 05:35 PM
Human Remains Found By College Soccer Team

COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. -

New details coming out about the human remains found in the woods behind an apartment complex in Colorado Springs. Investigators spent much of Saturday afternoon searching the woods for evidence.

It was the Colorado College soccer team who originally found the remains while picking up trash behind the San Juan Villa Apartments. "The neighborhood was going to have lunch for the boys. It was really going to be a festive occasion," said Colorado College Soccer Coach Horst Richardson.

While cleaning up the area, one of the players found something that he wasn't expecting. "After lifting a sleeping bag off of a pile of rubble, he discovered the remnants of a body," said Richardson.

<modsnip>
http://www.krdo.com/news/Human-Remains-Found-By-College-Soccer-Team/-/417220/14813786/-/uxhlkvz/-/index.html

i.b.nora
11-01-2012, 05:48 PM
I think that what is being identified as laundry vents on the front of the house, is an electrical fixture. JMO.

human
11-01-2012, 05:50 PM
I strongly suspect that this is urban legend, come to life again. I heard the very same urban legend in the 1960s except for the name Skittles. It wasn't true then and I strongly doubt that it is true now.

I think it's like fashion, wait around long enough and the same things come back in a slightly changed form. Otherwise known as "don't throw away a cashmere sweater."

where I live, they do have the parties but maybe it's over. There was a boy from a very prominent family that died from such a party maybe three years ago.

It was front page news for awhile

cindersoot
11-01-2012, 05:52 PM
Has this kid been charged with anymore murders?

enzeder
11-01-2012, 06:03 PM
I apologize if this has been covered in detail, but speaking of the woman who was found dead in the creek. Did anyone ever find articles that gave her identity? I researched it a while back and was able to only find articles about her body being found and nothing beyond. TIA

I've only been able to find these article thus far.

Wheat Ridge police investigate woman's body in Clear Creek
06/29/2011
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18377513

Police identify woman's body found in Clear Creek
Wednesday, June 29th, 2011
http://wheatridge.kdvr.com/news/news/police-identify-womans-body-found-clear-creek/71932

Woman’s Body Found On Hiking Trail In Wheat Ridge
June 29, 2011
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/06/29/womans-body-found-on-hiking-trail-in-wheat-ridge/

Passer-by finds woman's body in Clear Creek
06/30/2010
http://www.denverpost.com/latin/ci_15405487

Body of young woman found in Clear Creek
06/30/2011
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18381728#ixzz2B0cf96PN

Here's my original post regarding the "Body of young woman found in Clear Creek"
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CO - *ARREST!* Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #22

absentia
11-01-2012, 06:12 PM
ARS is accused of the Ketner Park attempt, which LE believe was the same perp as an earlier failed Ketner Park attempt way back in June/July 2010 IIRC.

That's over 2 years ago so if he's 17 now, he was only 15 in 2010. I wonder if somehow his parents knew/suspected his activities and that is why the "sexual addiction counselling" started at 15?

This kid has been active for a very long time...and from a very young age.

I can't help but think that there have been blind eyes turned by a lot of people. You don't just get up one day and attempt to kidnap a grown adult when you're 15 unless there has been some serious escalation beforehand.

Thank God his mother turned him in this time.

Questions need to be asked about his past, and the adults in his past, about who knew what when.

Did his parents/counsellor KNOW about the 2010 attempt? And if so, should they be prosecuted for not reporting this crime?

:banghead:

and has Kayleah Wilson's killer been identified? I know there was some conversation about whether she could have been one of AS' earlier victims.

Ransom
11-01-2012, 06:19 PM
Has this kid been charged with anymore murders?

No ....

Ransom
11-01-2012, 06:21 PM
I've only been able to find these article thus far.

Wheat Ridge police investigate woman's body in Clear Creek
06/29/2011
http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18377513

Police identify woman's body found in Clear Creek
Wednesday, June 29th, 2011
http://wheatridge.kdvr.com/news/news/police-identify-womans-body-found-clear-creek/71932

Woman’s Body Found On Hiking Trail In Wheat Ridge
June 29, 2011
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/06/29/womans-body-found-on-hiking-trail-in-wheat-ridge/

Passer-by finds woman's body in Clear Creek
06/30/2010
http://www.denverpost.com/latin/ci_15405487

Body of young woman found in Clear Creek
06/30/2011
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_18381728#ixzz2B0cf96PN

Here's my original post regarding the "Body of young woman found in Clear Creek"
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CO - *ARREST!* Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #22 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8519223&postcount=810)

IF you go to the source (Wheatridge PD) they have a release that body was ID, family asked that her name not be made public, pending toxic screen, etc.

DylansMom34
11-01-2012, 06:21 PM
It is difficult to get my mind around AS being responsible for these various events mainly because of his age (but maybe I'm just naive):

Kayleah Wilson from Greeley - March 28, 2010 (AS would have been barely 15 then and Greeley is approximately an hour from AS's residence.)

The female body found in Clear Creek (near Golden) - June 2010 (AS would be 15). Distance wise, Golden is only probably 15-20 minutes from AS's house.

The Ketner Lake attempted abduction in July 2010. He's still only 15 but the location is obviously very close to his home.

The body found in Wheat Ridge in June 2011. (AS was 16). Location wise, Wheat Ridge is probably 15 minutes from AS's house.

pinto
11-01-2012, 06:25 PM
this was also in the same area

Officials: Human remains found in Colorado are missing Chicago man
May 27, 2012|By Becky Schlikerman | Tribune reporter

http://www.trbimg.com/img-4fc21850/turbine/chi-human-remains-found-at-colorado-camp-linke-001/600

Colorado authorities believe they have found the remains of a Chicago hiker missing since October 2010, according to a news release from the Sheriff's Department in Eagle County, Colorado.

Authorities said a camper found an abandoned campsite near Holy Cross City, a ghost town in the White River National Forest near Minturn, Colo., Friday. The next day, police hiked to the location, apparently the camp site used by James Nelson, 31, of Chicago's Ravenswood neighborhood, and found human remains, authorities said.

Nelson's fiance reported him missing in October 2010 after he failed to return from his five-day, 25-mile hike of the Holy Cross Wilderness Area.

<modsnip>
bschlikerman@tribune.com

Twitter: @schlikerman

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-27/news/chi-human-remains-found-at-colorado-camp-linked-to-missing-chicago-man-20120527_1_chicago-hiker-chicago-man-matthew-frizzell

This guy was hiking and climbing mountains in unfamiliar terrain ... not a suspicious death, I don't think. Exposure or a fall, mostly likely.

johan555
11-01-2012, 06:27 PM
Missing City: DENVER
DAMARIS DESEREE NAVARRETE
Missing Date: Aug 15, 2012

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=1200992&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

Ransom
11-01-2012, 06:27 PM
this was also in the same area

Officials: Human remains found in Colorado are missing Chicago man
May 27, 2012|By Becky Schlikerman | Tribune reporter

http://www.trbimg.com/img-4fc21850/turbine/chi-human-remains-found-at-colorado-camp-linke-001/600

Colorado authorities believe they have found the remains of a Chicago hiker missing since October 2010, according to a news release from the Sheriff's Department in Eagle County, Colorado.

Authorities said a camper found an abandoned campsite near Holy Cross City, a ghost town in the White River National Forest near Minturn, Colo., Friday. The next day, police hiked to the location, apparently the camp site used by James Nelson, 31, of Chicago's Ravenswood neighborhood, and found human remains, authorities said.

Nelson's fiance reported him missing in October 2010 after he failed to return from his five-day, 25-mile hike of the Holy Cross Wilderness Area.

<modsnip>
bschlikerman@tribune.com

Twitter: @schlikerman

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-05-27/news/chi-human-remains-found-at-colorado-camp-linked-to-missing-chicago-man-20120527_1_chicago-hiker-chicago-man-matthew-frizzell

This man died from exposure on a 14er (14,000 feet altitude). He was found about 120' from his camp site. He was searched for, but weather sent the search crews home ... at the time.

Daisy1975
11-01-2012, 06:27 PM
It is difficult to get my mind around AS being responsible for these various events mainly because of his age (but maybe I'm just naive):

Kayleah Wilson from Greeley - March 28, 2010 (AS would have been barely 15 then and Greeley is approximately an hour from AS's residence.)

The female body found in Clear Creek (near Golden) - June 2010 (AS would be 15). Distance wise, Golden is only probably 15-20 minutes from AS's house.

The Ketner Lake attempted abduction in July 2010. He's still only 15 but the location is obviously very close to his home.

The body found in Wheat Ridge in June 2011. (AS was 16). Location wise, Wheat Ridge is probably 15 minutes from AS's house.

I know what you mean. He sure would have had to have a creative way to get to all of those locations without a driver's license. Although at this point, it seems like anything is possible! Hopefully, there is DNA available in some cases for comparison.

absentia
11-01-2012, 06:31 PM
It is difficult to get my mind around AS being responsible for these various events mainly because of his age (but maybe I'm just naive):

Kayleah Wilson from Greeley - March 28, 2010 (AS would have been barely 15 then and Greeley is approximately an hour from AS's residence.)

The female body found in Clear Creek (near Golden) - June 2010 (AS would be 15). Distance wise, Golden is only probably 15-20 minutes from AS's house.

The Ketner Lake attempted abduction in July 2010. He's still only 15 but the location is obviously very close to his home.

The body found in Wheat Ridge in June 2011. (AS was 16). Location wise, Wheat Ridge is probably 15 minutes from AS's house.

and Kyla Chadwick, listed as endangered runaway. missing since March 2012 from Fort Morgan, CO. would be 18 yo now.

absentia
11-01-2012, 06:33 PM
It is difficult to get my mind around AS being responsible for these various events mainly because of his age (but maybe I'm just naive):

Kayleah Wilson from Greeley - March 28, 2010 (AS would have been barely 15 then and Greeley is approximately an hour from AS's residence.)

The female body found in Clear Creek (near Golden) - June 2010 (AS would be 15). Distance wise, Golden is only probably 15-20 minutes from AS's house.

The Ketner Lake attempted abduction in July 2010. He's still only 15 but the location is obviously very close to his home.

The body found in Wheat Ridge in June 2011. (AS was 16). Location wise, Wheat Ridge is probably 15 minutes from AS's house.

the clear creek body was male and had fallen some distance. cause of death is due to the fall they believe.

DylansMom34
11-01-2012, 06:35 PM
and Kyla Chadwick, listed as endangered runaway. missing since March 2012 from Fort Morgan, CO. would be 18 yo now.

Of course Fort Morgan is about 2 hours or so away from AS's house.

I'm not saying he isn't tied to all these various things, it just seems like it would be a challenge to be covering so much ground at such a young age. MOO

spamelope
11-01-2012, 06:35 PM
http://www.krdo.com/news/El-Paso-County-authorities-look-for-missing-teen/-/417220/17231016/-/ykpsgwz/-/index.html

Ransom
11-01-2012, 06:37 PM
the clear creek body was male and had fallen some distance. cause of death is due to the fall they believe.

Nope, female.

http://www.ci.wheatridge.co.us/Search.aspx?SearchString=body

scroll down to Archives

ETA: Nevermind. Too many cases. The above was in 2011.

DylansMom34
11-01-2012, 06:38 PM
http://www.krdo.com/news/El-Paso-County-authorities-look-for-missing-teen/-/417220/17231016/-/ykpsgwz/-/index.html

Seems AS would have been a bit too busy on October 9/10 to have time to be able to abduct another girl...

johan555
11-01-2012, 06:40 PM
Colorado Alerts

USA

http://www.mostfreebies.com/AmberAlert/AmberAlertColorado.php

Footwarrior
11-01-2012, 06:45 PM
This guy was hiking and climbing mountains in unfamiliar terrain ... not a suspicious death, I don't think. Exposure or a fall, mostly likely.

You are correct. The Holy Cross Wilderness can kill a lone hiker unfamiliar with the area rather easily.

Salem
11-01-2012, 07:01 PM
Hey Everybody - Nurse pointed out earlier that there has been NO indication that ARS is a serial killer, either by MSM or LE. In addition, he is only 17. It is understood that many violent criminals start young, but realistically not before the age of 15ish. Any cases more than a year or so old are probably not going to be related to this one.

Its okay to research and look around, but it is not necessary to post about cases that are highly improbable UNLESS there is some factual data that actually lines up to this case, kwim?

Please think it through carefully before bringing it here for discussion so that we can all see the correlation and participate.

Thanks!

Salem

PMLsmom
11-01-2012, 07:02 PM
Just a sidebar on the driving/DL discussion...I was driving at 13, even took my DM to work daily. Didn't get a license until 18, so it is do-able (sp).

SapphireSteel
11-01-2012, 07:06 PM
I believe ARS has close family in Greeley.

:dunno:

Daisy1975
11-01-2012, 07:08 PM
Just wanted to mention that there are some parallels between this case and Edmund Kemper. He was vocal in several documentaries in the 80's. I wonder what he would comment about this case. He turned himself in after murdering his mother. He had been murdering and dismembering (some in his own home) college women for quite some time.

SapphireSteel
11-01-2012, 07:14 PM
Ugh.

I see similarities with a lot of them but his age, his age...!

It just puts him in a whole new category to me. A class of his own.

:(

PMLsmom
11-01-2012, 07:23 PM
Some (like me) believe Bundy started at 13 (or earlier). Can't remember the neighbor girl of his who was killed, unsolved.

tlcya
11-01-2012, 07:28 PM
I understand the urge to look for other victims but I remain convinced that Jessica was AS first human kill.

nikb
11-01-2012, 07:47 PM
I understand the urge to look for other victims but I remain convinced that Jessica was AS first human kill.

We can hope. :(

otto
11-01-2012, 07:54 PM
ARS is accused of the Ketner Park attempt, which LE believe was the same perp as an earlier failed Ketner Park attempt way back in June/July 2010 IIRC.

That's over 2 years ago so if he's 17 now, he was only 15 in 2010. I wonder if somehow his parents knew/suspected his activities and that is why the "sexual addiction counselling" started at 15?

This kid has been active for a very long time...and from a very young age.

I can't help but think that there have been blind eyes turned by a lot of people. You don't just get up one day and attempt to kidnap a grown adult when you're 15 unless there has been some serious escalation beforehand.

Thank God his mother turned him in this time.

Questions need to be asked about his past, and the adults in his past, about who knew what when.

Did his parents/counsellor KNOW about the 2010 attempt? And if so, should they be prosecuted for not reporting this crime?

:banghead:

The 2010 assault at Ketner Park has not been connected with the 2012 case that is connected with Austin through DNA.

otto
11-01-2012, 07:56 PM
Others probably have a link but IIRC the police did link the attacks.

:cow:

I haven't read anything stating that the two cases are connected.

otto
11-01-2012, 07:57 PM
http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home.jpg


link http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home.jpg

That looks like an exterior light.

borndem
11-01-2012, 08:02 PM
BBM-Ironic isn't it/

Wondered what you all are thinking. Will he and his Attorneys seek a LWOP plea deal?

That's the worst that he can get, given the age thing. LWOP would be no deal for him... But that's what, IMO, he should get. I hope he'll go for it, but if he has a decent attorney, the atty. won't let him. And further, wasn't it said that he couldn't get LWOP due to his age? What penalty is just under that in Colorado?

Thinking about a trial -- how awful that would be for everyone. This thing is a very bad one. But I don't see the State settling for anything less than LWOP or whatever the max is for his age... Give him 40 years, if that's the max, and stack a bunch of consecutives in front of it. That's what judges do to really sock it to 'em in NC. If a burglary and a rape and 1st degree murder (LWOP), the guilty one serves the lesser sentences first, and LWOP (or 40 years in this case) is the last one that will be served. That'll usually do it for well beyond one's likely lifetime.

Just thinkin' about it all...

otto
11-01-2012, 08:17 PM
The case that I'm curious about is the one from ... was it Cold Creek? A young woman that was jogging near a river was found dead under suspicious circumstances. I don't think it was all that long ago.

I've been thinking about this:

"According to a source, when Sigg confessed to kidnapping and killing the little girl, he told police he didn’t receive the joy from it that he thought he would, so he went further." (link) (http://fox4kc.com/2012/10/25/source-suspect-told-police-jessicas-murder-brought-him-no-joy/)

Why would he say that it brought him no joy? Did he expect that? Is it possible that he thought he would get some sort of thrill from watching someone die? The attempted murder was in the middle of the day, and he certainly had no way to take her home unnoticed at that time of day. The park is fairly open, so ... was his plan to murder her in the park? That is what happened to the other jogger. Anyone recall the name of the victim?

Victoriouswon
11-01-2012, 08:29 PM
I started driving at 8! got my first ticket at 11 on the I-5 freeway in Arizona! didn't get my real driver's license until 20-just cause I saw no point. I was pulled over many many times before I got my license and the only time I got a ticket was when I was 11. And what is more amazing is I only drove a stick shift. To be fair I grew up in the 80's, no supervision at all and access to keys and cars in the unlocked garage. I'm lucky to be alive.

Ransom
11-01-2012, 08:30 PM
The case that I'm curious about is the one from ... was it Cold Creek? A young woman that was jogging near a river was found dead under suspicious circumstances. I don't think it was all that long ago.

I've been thinking about this:

snipped

Are you talking about the woman found in Clear Creek (Wheat Ridge county, CO)? She was found dead 6/29/2011 in the water.

She was ID on 6/30/2012. I gave the link up above to Wheat Ridge PD website.

otto
11-01-2012, 08:34 PM
I think this is getting close to what the back of the house might look like. Thanks to those that added details.

Ertirely Speculative, but ...

Behind the patio doors are stairs going to the basement, where the furnace, hot water tank and washer/dryer may be. Officially, only 120 square feet are developed. From there, it is possible to get to the crawl space either through a half door, or around behind the utilities.

The crawl space is under the garage, and it's possible that the fireplace can be accessed from the crawl space ... don't know.

There's a second stair going up to the kitchen, living room, dining, front door area.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/Nov1_RearPersp.jpg

Ransom
11-01-2012, 08:35 PM
I believe ARS has close family in Greeley.

:dunno:

Nope. Looked at the genealogy links/ancestry. Not the same. IMO. Plus, innocent family members are off limits.

Austin Sigg has been charged. We have to wait.

Etilema
11-01-2012, 08:37 PM
I started driving at 8! got my first ticket at 11 on the I-5 freeway in Arizona! didn't get my real driver's license until 20-just cause I saw no point. I was pulled over many many times before I got my license and the only time I got a ticket was when I was 11. And what is more amazing is I only drove a stick shift. To be fair I grew up in the 80's, no supervision at all and access to keys and cars in the unlocked garage. I'm lucky to be alive.

I think it had more to do with growing up in Arizona than growing up in the 80s! JMO

I just read in George W. Bush's autobiography that he had his license at 14 (apparently legal driving age in Texas at that time!), and did get in crashes driving around by himself at that age. I have a 14-year-old boy myself, and I CANNOT imagine him out driving! But, then, I am scared to death teaching our almost 18-year-old to drive, and he is a good driver!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Wishbone
11-01-2012, 08:37 PM
The case that I'm curious about is the one from ... was it Cold Creek? A young woman that was jogging near a river was found dead under suspicious circumstances. I don't think it was all that long ago.

I've been thinking about this:

"According to a source, when Sigg confessed to kidnapping and killing the little girl, he told police he didn’t receive the joy from it that he thought he would, so he went further." (link) (http://fox4kc.com/2012/10/25/source-suspect-told-police-jessicas-murder-brought-him-no-joy/)

Why would he say that it brought him no joy? Did he expect that? Is it possible that he thought he would get some sort of thrill from watching someone die? The attempted murder was in the middle of the day, and he certainly had no way to take her home unnoticed at that time of day. The park is fairly open, so ... was his plan to murder her in the park? That is what happened to the other jogger. Anyone recall the name of the victim?


It’s obvious his motivation was not just to experience joy at taking the life of this child. He left out the part of sexually assaulting her and didn’t add much as to the “joy” he got out of dismembering her and most likely torturing her as well. I really don’t believe his account of what he says happened. IMO he thoroughly thought out what he planned to do to her well in advance of the abduction. Always just MOO.

DylansMom34
11-01-2012, 08:39 PM
Obviously there are many things that are possible....

It is possible that AS was able to drive to all these various crimes in Fort Morgan, Colorado Springs, Golden, Wheat Ridge, Greeley, etc.
It is possible that AS was familiar with these locations even though MSM reports that AS was pretty much raised in his neighborhood in Westminster.

I am sure that the various LE agencies know about the crime scenes, and anything left behind by the perpetrator(s), and LE has probably checked to see if there is a tie to AS for any of these crimes.

Since LE has not offically linked him to anything other than Jessica and the Ketner Lake jogger, I think don't think its likely he's involved in any of these other crimes.

MOO

Ransom
11-01-2012, 08:50 PM
Just a sidebar on the driving/DL discussion...I was driving at 13, even took my DM to work daily. Didn't get a license until 18, so it is do-able (sp).

It was doable for me too, back in the day. I lived in the boonies and no one cared. I didn't live in the Denver Metro-Plex of about 2 million people. Big difference NOW, IMO.

mck16
11-01-2012, 08:51 PM
I think it had more to do with growing up in Arizona than growing up in the 80s! JMO

I just read in George W. Bush's autobiography that he had his license at 14 (apparently legal driving age in Texas at that time!), and did get in crashes driving around by himself at that age. I have a 14-year-old boy myself, and I CANNOT imagine him out driving! But, then, I am scared to death teaching our almost 18-year-old to drive, and he is a good driver!



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

While not the norm, you can get your license between the ages of 14 and 18. but, there are certain restrictions and certain criteria applicable. Living in the wild west of Texas, I can see that happening for Pres Bush. We live in E. Texas and my grandson who is 13 has been driving for a couple of years. Not in town, but on the country roads in the area. He can also drive a tractor and a back end loader. Very helpful around the place. jmo

b2alicia
11-01-2012, 08:55 PM
I believe ARS has close family in Greeley.

:dunno:

:what: :what: :what: :what:

Really? I missed that somehow.

I followed the Kayleah Wilson story pretty closely.

Do you happen to recall where you saw that AS had connections to Greeley?

Thanks

csziggy
11-01-2012, 08:55 PM
Not so sure about the oven though. Is it common to have an oven built in like that in CO? Where I live it'd be rare, so just wondering.
Snipped for space.

Maybe that vent is for a furnace rather than an oven? A logical place for a furnace would be in an equipment/utility room off the garage and venting it next to the fireplace flue would make sense.

Pure guess on my part.

enzeder
11-01-2012, 09:02 PM
Hadn't read this article before...


Jessica’s suspected killer attended ACC

October 24, 2012

Excerpt: "Martin said he didn’t really know Sigg, but he seemed very smart when he spoke up in class. He only remembers him being absent one time, and it was well before the murder. Afterward, there didn’t seem to be any change in his demeanor, said Martin.

“He seemed confident,” said Martin.

Martin occasionally saw Sigg hanging out on campus with an informal group of “Magic: The Gathering” players. It’s a fantasy card game with a cult following, similar to the “Dungeons and Dragons” phenomenon of years past. Otherwise, he didn’t obviously belong to any particular clique, said Martin, adding that Sigg normally dressed in jeans and T-shirts of various colors.

http://www.ourcoloradonews.com/centennial/news/jessica-s-suspected-killer-attended-acc/article_9f5effb6-1e4e-11e2-abf0-0019bb2963f4.html

GrainneDhu
11-01-2012, 09:12 PM
Has law enforcement actually tied him to the 2010 attempt? Maybe they have reason to believe he was involved and just don't have enough to charge him with it.

Or, could it be, that he heard about the 2010 attempt and did a copycat in 2012?

Speculation: I think this is very possible. He may have heard of the 2010 attempt and it triggered speculation and fantasy, then he tried it for himself in 2012 and discovered that he couldn't overcome an adult woman.

csziggy
11-01-2012, 09:20 PM
That looks like an exterior light.
http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home.jpg
http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home.jpg

On a whole other subject - is that a cat door in the left hand garage door?

SapphireSteel
11-01-2012, 09:20 PM
:what: :what: :what: :what:

Really? I missed that somehow.

I followed the Kayleah Wilson story pretty closely.

Do you happen to recall where you saw that AS had connections to Greeley?

Thanks

It would have been somewhere on WS but I will look and post the link.

ETA

We aren't supposed to sleuth the family but this links ARS to Greeley via his paternal side.

http://www.instantpeoplefinder.com/find-people/roman+sigg

sfbaynancydrew
11-01-2012, 09:25 PM
Has this been linked yet??? I don't think I've read some of the things in this...is crimemagazine.com considered msm???

http://crimemagazine.com/killer-schoolgirl-jessica-ridgeway-child-himself

If not, please report this post so mods can delete, otherwise...wow, some info I definitely haven't read before. Like the fact that it's been determined the murder did NOT take place at his home?

csziggy
11-01-2012, 09:26 PM
Obviously there are many things that are possible....

It is possible that AS was able to drive to all these various crimes in Fort Morgan, Colorado Springs, Golden, Wheat Ridge, Greeley, etc.
It is possible that AS was familiar with these locations even though MSM reports that AS was pretty much raised in his neighborhood in Westminster.

I am sure that the various LE agencies know about the crime scenes, and anything left behind by the perpetrator(s), and LE has probably checked to see if there is a tie to AS for any of these crimes.

Since LE has not offically linked him to anything other than Jessica and the Ketner Lake jogger, I think don't think its likely he's involved in any of these other crimes.

MOO

BBM.

Or there simply is not enough evidence. Sadly that is true in many cases - not enough evidence to find the perp or to bring charges.

JMO

GrainneDhu
11-01-2012, 09:27 PM
It is difficult to get my mind around AS being responsible for these various events mainly because of his age (but maybe I'm just naive):

Kayleah Wilson from Greeley - March 28, 2010 (AS would have been barely 15 then and Greeley is approximately an hour from AS's residence.)

The female body found in Clear Creek (near Golden) - June 2010 (AS would be 15). Distance wise, Golden is only probably 15-20 minutes from AS's house.

The Ketner Lake attempted abduction in July 2010. He's still only 15 but the location is obviously very close to his home.

The body found in Wheat Ridge in June 2011. (AS was 16). Location wise, Wheat Ridge is probably 15 minutes from AS's house.

That was a useful summary for me, thank you.

What strikes me about the two victims that AS has definitely been linked to is that both incidents took place very close to his own home. Easily within what is probably Sigg's comfort zone.

Aside from the 2010 Ketner Lake attempt, none of the other incidents are close to his home. Particularly considering he probably did not have a driver's license at that point. Even with a driver's licence, Greeley would probably not have been within his comfort zone. And without a driver's license, I think the Clear Creek body would have been too far away from him to reach (he would have had to hike for hours each way).

Wheat Ridge is possible but... I'm just not seeing it.

nikb
11-01-2012, 09:37 PM
I started driving at 8! got my first ticket at 11 on the I-5 freeway in Arizona! didn't get my real driver's license until 20-just cause I saw no point. I was pulled over many many times before I got my license and the only time I got a ticket was when I was 11. And what is more amazing is I only drove a stick shift. To be fair I grew up in the 80's, no supervision at all and access to keys and cars in the unlocked garage. I'm lucky to be alive.

I was thinking about this too when I saw the video of AS racing/driving go-carts (karts? not sure on spelling). My husband was driving way early on. He also raced carts, the fast ones that most Indy car drivers start out in as kids, not the just for fun ones like you find at a mini-golf kind of place. When he was a bit older he drove plenty of cars around when he was unsupervised and the keys were easily available - and like you, he didn't bother to get a driver's license until later, he was 18 or 19 I think. He took a very long break (cough, don't tell him I said it was so long) from racing but he's also raced road courses as an adult. I've been surprised when we get to a track early and the kids' races are going on. Some of the kids are so little and the carts/karts are so fast!

I don't know how relevant it is to this case so hopefully I'm not on a big off-topic tangent. :) I'm thinking how people were shocked when we found out AS was so young, thinking he couldn't have committed this crime (or possibly others) without being able to drive. IMO, if I'm correctly remembering the video of AS, he's probably a pretty good driver and probably has been for quite awhile.

nikb
11-01-2012, 09:50 PM
Snipped for space.

Maybe that vent is for a furnace rather than an oven? A logical place for a furnace would be in an equipment/utility room off the garage and venting it next to the fireplace flue would make sense.

Pure guess on my part.

Could be, for sure - that would make sense.

nikb
11-01-2012, 09:52 PM
http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home.jpg
http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/sigg-home.jpg

On a whole other subject - is that a cat door in the left hand garage door?

That's a very good question. It seems like an odd spot for one IMO, but it sure looks like a cat door, and there's been mention in MSM about them having cats.

enzeder
11-01-2012, 09:53 PM
That was a useful summary for me, thank you.

What strikes me about the two victims that AS has definitely been linked to is that both incidents took place very close to his own home. Easily within what is probably Sigg's comfort zone.

Aside from the 2010 Ketner Lake attempt, none of the other incidents are close to his home. Particularly considering he probably did not have a driver's license at that point. Even with a driver's licence, Greeley would probably not have been within his comfort zone. And without a driver's license, I think the Clear Creek body would have been too far away from him to reach (he would have had to hike for hours each way).

Wheat Ridge is possible but... I'm just not seeing it.

The woman's body was found in Clear Creek "near 10400 W. 44th Ave." 10400 W. 44th Ave is in Wheat Ridge.


Wheat Ridge police investigate woman's body in Clear Creek

06/29/2011

"Wheat Ridge police are investigating the death of a young woman whose body was found Wednesday morning in Clear Creek.

The body was spotted by a person walking a dog on the greenbelt path just north of the swollen creek, said Lt. Dave Pickett, police spokesman.

Officers found the woman's body in the area near 10400 W. 44th Ave."

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_18377513

GrainneDhu
11-01-2012, 10:05 PM
Some (like me) believe Bundy started at 13 (or earlier). Can't remember the neighbor girl of his who was killed, unsolved.

Bundy would have been 14 (almost 15) when Ann Marie Burr disappeared at age 8.

Bundy vehemently denied any involvement in her murder. DNA testing of evidence recovered at the Burr home showed insufficient DNA to compare with Ted's DNA.

It is one of those mysteries where the arguments for and against balance out too closely to make a convincing case either way, in my own opinion. It is one of those sad cases that would have been very solvable with modern forensics; when the evidence was collected, the physical structure of DNA had only been reported a couple years previously, so the evidence collected focused on the forensics possible at the time.

It is interesting to note that if Bundy did abduct and murder Ann Marie Burr, he committed the perfect crime for the times. Her body was never found and there is no clear evidence linking Bundy and Ann.

alexandra
11-01-2012, 10:07 PM
Is it ok to speculate about an actual murder scene if the property belongs to one of his parents?? TIA

enzeder
11-01-2012, 10:09 PM
I think this is getting close to what the back of the house might look like. Thanks to those that added details.

Ertirely Speculative, but ...

Behind the patio doors are stairs going to the basement, where the furnace, hot water tank and washer/dryer may be. Officially, only 120 square feet are developed. From there, it is possible to get to the crawl space either through a half door, or around behind the utilities.

The crawl space is under the garage, and it's possible that the fireplace can be accessed from the crawl space ... don't know.

There's a second stair going up to the kitchen, living room, dining, front door area.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/Nov1_RearPersp.jpg

Nice work otto!. I remember how really helpful your graphics were when I was following the Joanna Yeates case.

GrainneDhu
11-01-2012, 10:11 PM
It’s obvious his motivation was not just to experience joy at taking the life of this child. He left out the part of sexually assaulting her and didn’t add much as to the “joy” he got out of dismembering her and most likely torturing her as well. I really don’t believe his account of what he says happened. IMO he thoroughly thought out what he planned to do to her well in advance of the abduction. Always just MOO.

I am not certain of what he did or did not confess to, considering that all I've read are summaries less than a paragraph long of an interrogation that lasted for six hours.

Do you have a link for a more detailed account?

Wishbone
11-01-2012, 10:14 PM
I am not certain of what he did or did not confess to, considering that all I've read are summaries less than a paragraph long of an interrogation that lasted for six hours.

Do you have a link for a more detailed account?



As stated twice in my post, all my own opinions from what little information is available. All my own speculation.

otto
11-01-2012, 10:19 PM
Hadn't read this article before...

Just a regular guy that wore jeans and colored t-shirts, nothing unusual, seemed to have it together, nothing changed ... that's a dangerous man: Austin.

human
11-01-2012, 10:23 PM
I think what people are saying is some kind of vent by the garage door is a motion detector light.

otto
11-01-2012, 10:23 PM
Has this been linked yet??? I don't think I've read some of the things in this...is crimemagazine.com considered msm???

http://crimemagazine.com/killer-schoolgirl-jessica-ridgeway-child-himself

If not, please report this post so mods can delete, otherwise...wow, some info I definitely haven't read before. Like the fact that it's been determined the murder did NOT take place at his home?

The article is artfully written, but it makes an awful lot of assumptions.

csziggy
11-01-2012, 10:28 PM
That's a very good question. It seems like an odd spot for one IMO, but it sure looks like a cat door, and there's been mention in MSM about them having cats.

You'd think there would be a cat door into the back yard rather than out onto the driveway! Maybe there is and we just don't have a view of the house that shows it?

otto
11-01-2012, 10:29 PM
The woman's body was found in Clear Creek "near 10400 W. 44th Ave." 10400 W. 44th Ave is in Wheat Ridge.

"Wheat Ridge police are investigating the death of a young woman whose body was found Wednesday morning in Clear Creek.

The body was spotted by a person walking a dog on the greenbelt path just north of the swollen creek, said Lt. Dave Pickett, police spokesman.

Officers found the woman's body in the area near 10400 W. 44th Ave."



Thank you. That's the one I was wondering about. Was her name ever released?

scorekeeper
11-01-2012, 10:29 PM
Has this been linked yet??? I don't think I've read some of the things in this...is crimemagazine.com considered msm???http://crimemagazine.com/killer-schoolgirl-jessica-ridgeway-child-himself

If not, please report this post so mods can delete, otherwise...wow, some info I definitely haven't read before. Like the fact that it's been determined the murder did NOT take place at his home?

BBM

Can this article be quoted???

Interesting family history....

http://crimemagazine.com/killer-schoolgirl-jessica-ridgeway-child-himself

alexandra
11-01-2012, 10:33 PM
Ok, I won't mention any names in my pure speculation. But if we look at the remote location of R's home, I know some have talked about the large garage on the property. But has anyone mentioned the 18'x18' outbuilding? It's listed as a farm/pool building. Generally a pool house would have a ceramic tile floor or something of that sort. You'd also possibly have a bathroom, i.e. plumbing. Particularly one that appears to be upscale. Has anyone talked about this? If so, I've missed it. TIA And this is all pure speculation, MOO

enzeder
11-01-2012, 10:37 PM
Thank you. That's the one I was wondering about. Was her name ever released?

I've searched everywhere and can't find if her name was ever released.

Here is my post which gives the links to the articles I was able to find regarding this case.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CO - *ARREST!* Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #23

Considering
11-01-2012, 10:39 PM
Does anyone recall where the information came from that Austin was treated for a "porn addiction" at age 15? I know it was reported in msm, but did anyone in msm indicate where that information came from or was it from "a source"? I've read some speculation that this porn addiction treatment could have been the result of something that happened that is in Austin's closed juvenile record. I don't think a court would have ordered treatment specifically for a porn addiction because the DSM does not recognize it as a disorder. If he was diagnosed with a mental disorder of some type and if treatment was court-ordered, I think the court would require it to be a disorder included in the DSM, the standard classification of mental disorders used by mental health professionals.

alexandra
11-01-2012, 10:41 PM
I've searched everywhere and can't find if her name was ever released.

Here is my post which gives the links to the articles I was able to find regarding this case.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CO - *ARREST!* Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #23 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8525698&postcount=138)

Someone posted earlier about this: IF you go to the source (Wheatridge PD) they have a release that body was ID, family asked that her name not be made public, pending toxic screen, etc.

sfbaynancydrew
11-01-2012, 10:42 PM
Does anyone recall where the information came from that Austin was treated for a "porn addiction" at age 15? I know it was reported in msm, but did anyone in msm indicate where that information came from or was it from "a source"? I've read some speculation that this porn addiction treatment could have been the result of something that happened that is in Austin's closed juvenile record. I don't think a court would have ordered treatment specifically for a porn addiction because the DSM does not recognize it as a disorder. If he was diagnosed with a mental disorder of some type and if treatment was court-ordered, I think the court would require it to be a disorder included in the DSM, the standard classification of mental disorders used by mental health professionals.

This quotes the "family member" who discussed it at length. I found more info in what was said than in any other article.

http://crimemagazine.com/killer-schoolgirl-jessica-ridgeway-child-himself

mck16
11-01-2012, 10:42 PM
Does anyone recall where the information came from that Austin was treated for a "porn addiction" at age 15? I know it was reported in msm, but did anyone in msm indicate where that information came from or was it from "a source"? I've read some speculation that this porn addiction treatment could have been the result of something that happened that is in Austin's closed juvenile record. I don't think a court would have ordered treatment specifically for a porn addiction because the DSM does not recognize it as a disorder. If he was diagnosed with a mental disorder of some type and if treatment was court-ordered, I think the court would require it to be a disorder included in the DSM, the standard classification of mental disorders used by mental health professionals.

It came from an aunt.

alexandra
11-01-2012, 10:44 PM
Does anyone recall where the information came from that Austin was treated for a "porn addiction" at age 15? I know it was reported in msm, but did anyone in msm indicate where that information came from or was it from "a source"? I've read some speculation that this porn addiction treatment could have been the result of something that happened that is in Austin's closed juvenile record. I don't think a court would have ordered treatment specifically for a porn addiction because the DSM does not recognize it as a disorder. If he was diagnosed with a mental disorder of some type and if treatment was court-ordered, I think the court would require it to be a disorder included in the DSM, the standard classification of mental disorders used by mental health professionals.

http://kdvr.com/2012/10/24/exclusive-ridgeway-murder-suspect-austin-sigg-treated-for-pornography-addiction/

snipped "Senior investigative reporter Josh Bernstein confirmed that the teenager had been treated for an addiction to pornography.

Bernstein reports family members say he was just 15 years old and his addiction was so strong that it required counseling."

katydid23
11-01-2012, 10:45 PM
Does anyone recall where the information came from that Austin was treated for a "porn addiction" at age 15? I know it was reported in msm, but did anyone in msm indicate where that information came from or was it from "a source"? I've read some speculation that this porn addiction treatment could have been the result of something that happened that is in Austin's closed juvenile record. I don't think a court would have ordered treatment specifically for a porn addiction because the DSM does not recognize it as a disorder. If he was diagnosed with a mental disorder of some type and if treatment was court-ordered, I think the court would require it to be a disorder included in the DSM, the standard classification of mental disorders used by mental health professionals.

I don't have the link handy, but someone linked it upstream, and it seemed to come from a family member. I think, IIRC, and aunt said this to a reporter.

GrainneDhu
11-01-2012, 10:49 PM
As stated twice in my post, all my own opinions from what little information is available. All my own speculation.

I was referring to this post:


Originally Posted by Wishbone
It’s obvious his motivation was not just to experience joy at taking the life of this child. He left out the part of sexually assaulting her and didn’t add much as to the “joy” he got out of dismembering her and most likely torturing her as well. I really don’t believe his account of what he says happened. IMO he thoroughly thought out what he planned to do to her well in advance of the abduction. Always just MOO.

This time, BBM.

I was asking for a link that states that Sigg left out the part about sexually assaulting Jessica. It wasn't clear to me that this omission was merely your opinion.

Considering
11-01-2012, 10:52 PM
It came from an aunt.

If the aunt is correct about Austin being treated for a porn addiction, I don't think it would have been court-ordered treatment since a porn addiction isn't officially recognized. If he did receive court-ordered treatment, it I believe it was likely due to some other official diagnosis. Of course, no one knows that it has anything to do with a juvenile record since that record is sealed. Treatment for a porn addiction could be something that a parent decided Austin needed. Austin could also have been treated for something else and his aunt was told he was being treated for a porn addiction or the aunt could be mistaken.

Wishbone
11-01-2012, 10:54 PM
I was referring to this post:



This time, BBM.

I was asking for a link that states that Sigg left out the part about sexually assaulting Jessica. It wasn't clear to me that this omission was merely your opinion.



I posted IMO, actually twice, thats the best I can do.

enzeder
11-01-2012, 10:59 PM
The location where the body was found at Clear Creek in June 2011, near 10400 W. 44th Ave, Wheat Ridge, is approx. 3.3 miles from Warren Tech North where AS was a student.


Sigg traveled unconventional path through school

Oct 24, 2012

Excerpt: Before attending college, Sigg spent most of his school career in Jefferson County. He attended Witt Elementary, the same school as the murder victim, 10-year-old Jessica Ridgeway. Sigg spent a few years at Standley Lake High School.

He also concurrently attended WarrenTech, a trade school.

According to Jeffco School District records, Sigg dropped of both schools in July 2012.

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=295959

cakegirl0905
11-01-2012, 10:59 PM
I believe ARS has close family in Greeley.

:dunno:
Is that so? Makes me think about Kayleah Wilson then. I assumed her boyfriend is who murdered her, but who knows...

katydid23
11-01-2012, 10:59 PM
If the aunt is correct about Austin being treated for a porn addiction, I don't think it would have been court-ordered treatment since a porn addiction isn't officially recognized. If he did receive court-ordered treatment, it I believe it was likely due to some other official diagnosis. Of course, no one knows that it has anything to do with a juvenile record since that record is sealed. Treatment for a porn addiction could be something that a parent decided Austin needed. Austin could also have been treated for something else and his aunt was told he was being treated for a porn addiction or the aunt could be mistaken.

I was thinking about that too. But I have to wonder, what could they have been really treating him for, where a 'porn addiction' is considered a better explanation? :eek: :eek:

scorekeeper
11-01-2012, 11:08 PM
After his arrest, White told police that he had been fantasizing for about two weeks about killing Gay and having sex with her dead body, the court documents say. He said he had been watching Internet videos that showed women being murdered and men having sex with the dead bodies.

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/central_mich/mt-pleasant-woman-rebekah-gay-24-missing-110112

Another case of a murdered 24 year old...so sad

Found Deceased MI - Rebekah Jane Gay, 24, Broomfield Township, 31 Oct 2012

bkcrt
11-01-2012, 11:13 PM
I think this is getting close to what the back of the house might look like. Thanks to those that added details.

Ertirely Speculative, but ...

Behind the patio doors are stairs going to the basement, where the furnace, hot water tank and washer/dryer may be. Officially, only 120 square feet are developed. From there, it is possible to get to the crawl space either through a half door, or around behind the utilities.

The crawl space is under the garage, and it's possible that the fireplace can be accessed from the crawl space ... don't know.

There's a second stair going up to the kitchen, living room, dining, front door area.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t189/zed0101/Nov1_RearPersp.jpg

This is a great depiction of the house. My sister lives in Colorado and has a house like this. When you walk in the front door, you walk into the "formal" living room. About 10 feet from the front door on the left are stairs that lead up to the bedrooms. When you get to the top of those stairs there is a small hallway. To the right is the Master bedroom which leads to the doors and deck at the back of the house. The master bedroom has a full bath. To the left and at the front of the house (with the two small windows) are two small bedrooms. There is also a full bath off of the hallway to the left. Back to the formal living room: As you walk forward there is the kitchen at the back of the house. A wall separates the kitchen and formal living room. There are windows in the picture where the kitchen is. To the left (right after the short stairs that lead upstairs) there is a short set of stairs that leads down to the family room with has the fireplace. There is a railing in the kitchen so that you can look down into the living room. The sliding glass door opens from the living room to the backyard. If you enter from the garage: When you pull in the garage, to get in the house there are three steps that lead up to the door. When you walk in this door you are in the living room. TO THE RIGHT is a door to the basement. There is a full set of stairs that lead down to the basement. In my sisters house there is ANOTHER door at the bottom of the stairs. The basement in my sister's house is unfinished except for her son's "man cave" which is a big bedroom with a door. Also in the basement is the furnace and the washer and dryer, which is walled off from the larger room that is the man cave. The basement is plumbed for a bathroom. My sister doesn't have a bathroom yet but plans on putting one in. Maybe Austin's house does?. Off of the side of the room that has the man cave there is a small door to the crawl space. It is about 4 ft tall. The entire basement area is UNDER the part of the house which would be the formal living room and kitchen. I've never been in the crawl space (creepy), but it is in the direction of where the living room with fireplace is. I don't think it is as big as that room though. When I did look in, it looked to go back about 10 ft. In the basement there is also a sump pump hole (basically a hole in the concrete about 14 inches across) that is to prevent flooding. They are common in Colorado. That all being said....My sister has no idea what her son is doing in the basement and CAN NOT hear him down there either. I have been thinking a lot about this since Jessica....and I am pretty sure my nephew could have someone in the basement and my sister (who is a single parent) would not even know.

bkcrt
11-01-2012, 11:18 PM
Also, on the side of the house where my nephews man cave is in the basement, there are windows at ground level that can easily be used as a place to enter and leave from. My sister DOES NOT have the side door that goes into the garage. That is a builder option I believe.

otto
11-01-2012, 11:31 PM
I think what people are saying is some kind of vent by the garage door is a motion detector light.

It looks to me like an outdoor light fixture ... or a motion detector light. I don't think anyone would vent their dryer out of the front of the house between the garage and the front door.

Considering
11-01-2012, 11:32 PM
I was thinking about that too. But I have to wonder, what could they have been really treating him for, where a 'porn addiction' is considered a better explanation? :eek: :eek:

:dunno: There are several Paraphilic Disorders that one might be having treatment for that a person might tell a white-lie about thinking that a porn addiction somehow sounded not quite as bad. I certainly don't know that to be true in Austin's case, however.

CHERIE.T
11-01-2012, 11:33 PM
Anyone else have blown margins? Tia

SmoothOperator
11-01-2012, 11:36 PM
It’s obvious his motivation was not just to experience joy at taking the life of this child. He left out the part of sexually assaulting her and didn’t add much as to the “joy” he got out of dismembering her and most likely torturing her as well. I really don’t believe his account of what he says happened. IMO he thoroughly thought out what he planned to do to her well in advance of the abduction. Always just MOO.


As stated twice in my post, all my own opinions from what little information is available. All my own speculation.
correct, imo it is speculation and opinion that imo is quite obviously based upon the information that we, the public were thus far relayed..

those details that were relayed to us were..
-Sigg says he spotted her walking and turned his vehicle and double back to where she was walking

-Sigg says that he grabbed her from the street she was walking along

-Sigg says he hogtied her

-Sigg says he strangled her as well upon his getting her into his vehicle.

-Sigg says that the murdering of Jessica did not give him the rush he thought it should

-Sigg says that it is the above that led to his deciding to dismember her.

Those are basically the exact details that were relayed to us therefor it is obviously exactly this issue of the details relayed to us IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER MENTION, IMPLIED, OR EVEN ALLUDED TO SEXUAL ASSAULT ON JESSICA.. This imo quite clearly is where an opinion is born of regarding an OBVIOUS OMISSION OF SEXUAL MOTIVATION..

An opinion that you are by far alone in and tho, none us have the detailed hard facts in this case[or any other case] we can only work with what we have..and in this case those factoids that we have obviously have ZERO MENTION OF SEXUAL MOTIVATION WRT Sigg's initial version of events..

otto
11-01-2012, 11:37 PM
I've searched everywhere and can't find if her name was ever released.

Here is my post which gives the links to the articles I was able to find regarding this case.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CO - *ARREST!* Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #23 (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8525698&postcount=138)

Thank you. That's the one case that has some similarities to the two known cases. She was dressed for jogging or walking during the day at Clear Creek (10400 44 Ave), and she was found dead with no apparent cause of death ... suspicious (June 2011). The jogger in Ketner Park (May 2012) was jogging and attacked in a location where, if murdered, she would have most likely been found in a similar way - along the side of the path somewhere, perhaps with an unknown cause of death.

Foxfire
11-01-2012, 11:43 PM
Of course Fort Morgan is about 2 hours or so away from AS's house.

I'm not saying he isn't tied to all these various things, it just seems like it would be a challenge to be covering so much ground at such a young age. MOO


Westminister to Ft Morgan, CO - 78 miles..according to google maps

otto
11-01-2012, 11:45 PM
This is a great depiction of the house. My sister lives in Colorado and has a house like this.

Thank you ... I've copied the description and will have a look at it in a couple of days ...

otto
11-01-2012, 11:48 PM
Anyone else have blown margins? Tia

If your screen is set to 100% zoom and images are less than 800 pixels in width, there typically isn't a problem with blown margins. If your screen resolution is zoomed, sometimes it appears that the margins are blown.

Foxfire
11-01-2012, 11:50 PM
Like to know everyone's opinions of why there was a gag order directed by the Judge in this case...

enzeder
11-01-2012, 11:51 PM
That's a very good question. It seems like an odd spot for one IMO, but it sure looks like a cat door, and there's been mention in MSM about them having cats.

Looks like a cat door to me too.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/1024123-fox.jpg

From case archive - crankycrankerson's Library
http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/user/crankycrankerson/media/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/1024123-fox.jpg.html?sort=6&o=64

DylansMom34
11-01-2012, 11:51 PM
Westminister to Ft Morgan, CO - 78 miles..according to google maps

I've made the drive to Ft. Morgan and I live much closer than Westminster, took close to 2 hours.

<modsnip>

DylansMom34
11-01-2012, 11:57 PM
I don't mean to be snippy or grumpy, but I really think we are giving a stupid kid who IMO was just starting his crimes way too much credit. I really think his comfort zone was his own neighborhood. Fort Morgan and Greeley are pretty far out of that comfort zone. Of course, I almost hope I'm wrong and that he was the person responsible for whatever happened to those girls, because it sucks that nobody knows.

otto
11-01-2012, 11:58 PM
correct, imo it is speculation and opinion that imo is quite obviously based upon the information that we, the public were thus far relayed..

those details that were relayed to us were..
-Sigg says he spotted her walking and turned his vehicle and double back to where she was walking

-Sigg says that he grabbed her from the street she was walking along

-Sigg says he hogtied her

-Sigg says he strangled her as well upon his getting her into his vehicle.

-Sigg says that the murdering of Jessica did not give him the rush he thought it should

-Sigg says that it is the above that led to his deciding to dismember her.

Those are basically the exact details that were relayed to us therefor it is obviously exactly this issue of the details relayed to us IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER MENTION, IMPLIED, OR EVEN ALLUDED TO SEXUAL ASSAULT ON JESSICA.. This imo quite clearly is where an opinion is born of regarding an OBVIOUS OMISSION OF SEXUAL MOTIVATION..

An opinion that you are by far alone in and tho, none us have the detailed hard facts in this case[or any other case] we can only work with what we have..and in this case those factoids that we have obviously have ZERO MENTION OF SEXUAL MOTIVATION WRT Sigg's initial version of events..

He did not say that "no joy" led to the dismemberment, he said he took it further. We don't know what that means.

The part about driving past her, turning around and grabbing her doesn't work for me. He would have been in the driver's seat and she would have been on the sidewalk. The only way this could have worked is if he was not driving ... at least I can't figure it out with him driving. Given what happened with the jogger, where he grabbed her from behind and still he failed, I suspect that Austin was not going to let anything go wrong this time ... so I don't believe he called her over to his vehicle. He is only 7 years older than Jessica and we heard from her mother that she wanted to be a teenager ... and he spent time playing Capture the Flag with girls her age ... did he know exactly the right thing to say to lure her in, or did he sneak up behind her, and use a toxic chemical to subdue her?

otto
11-02-2012, 12:00 AM
Like to know everyone's opinions of why there was a gag order directed by the Judge in this case...

I posted the law that applies last time this was discussed ... a couple of days ago ... when Mister Mayor was commenting on it. It's the law ... protects the integrity of the prosecution.

I don't think it matters whether it is common to have a gag order and sealed documents, what matters is that this case was exploding on the internet and that has the potential to compromise the case. When there is a trial, I'm sure everything will come out. If he pleads, then one version of the story will come out.

I don't think anyone wants to see this case compromised by a talking head.

otto
11-02-2012, 12:03 AM
Looks like a cat door to me too.

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/1024123-fox.jpg

From case archive - crankycrankerson's Library
http://s296.beta.photobucket.com/user/crankycrankerson/media/Jessica%20Ridgeway%20%20-CO-/1024123-fox.jpg.html?sort=6&o=64

Do cat doors go on garage doors? I know nothing about cats. Wouldn't it be a lot less expensive to add a cat door to a people door ... or am I misunderstanding?

enzeder
11-02-2012, 12:03 AM
Someone posted earlier about this: IF you go to the source (Wheatridge PD) they have a release that body was ID, family asked that her name not be made public, pending toxic screen, etc.

I did see that link and checked the archives too but the I can't find any updates after 06/30/2011.

Body Found In Clear Creek Identified
"06/30/2011 3:04 PM An update will follow further contact with the victim’s family."
http://www.ci.wheatridge.co.us/archives/64/Body%20in%20Clear%20Creek.Update.pdf

Site Search
http://www.ci.wheatridge.co.us/Search.aspx?SearchString=body

otto
11-02-2012, 12:08 AM
I don't mean to be snippy or grumpy, but I really think we are giving a stupid kid who IMO was just starting his crimes way too much credit. I really think his comfort zone was his own neighborhood. Fort Morgan and Greeley are pretty far out of that comfort zone. Of course, I almost hope I'm wrong and that he was the person responsible for whatever happened to those girls, because it sucks that nobody knows.

What about Clear Creek? Is that within a safe distance from his comfor zone ... for perhaps a first offense - which is usually farther from home. As comfort (getting away with it) settles in, the crimes are committed closer and closer to home. He is so bold that I wonder how that happened if it didn't happen during another ciminal act.

csziggy
11-02-2012, 12:08 AM
correct, imo it is speculation and opinion that imo is quite obviously based upon the information that we, the public were thus far relayed..

those details that were relayed to us were..
-Sigg says he spotted her walking and turned his vehicle and double back to where she was walking

-Sigg says that he grabbed her from the street she was walking along

-Sigg says he hogtied her

-Sigg says he strangled her as well upon his getting her into his vehicle.

-Sigg says that the murdering of Jessica did not give him the rush he thought it should

-Sigg says that it is the above that led to his deciding to dismember her.

Those are basically the exact details that were relayed to us therefor it is obviously exactly this issue of the details relayed to us IN NO WAY WHATSOEVER MENTION, IMPLIED, OR EVEN ALLUDED TO SEXUAL ASSAULT ON JESSICA.. This imo quite clearly is where an opinion is born of regarding an OBVIOUS OMISSION OF SEXUAL MOTIVATION..

An opinion that you are by far alone in and tho, none us have the detailed hard facts in this case[or any other case] we can only work with what we have..and in this case those factoids that we have obviously have ZERO MENTION OF SEXUAL MOTIVATION WRT Sigg's initial version of events..

In the formal charges is: Count Number 9 Sexual Assault of a Child - http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/1030/20121030_121657_People%20v.%20Sigg%20Charging%20Do cument.pdf

I infer that shows there was some sort of sexual motivation despite a possible self serving confession from AS.

Just Pat 22
11-02-2012, 12:11 AM
I posted the law that applies last time this was discussed ... a couple of days ago ... when Mister Mayor was commenting on it. It's the law ... protects the integrity of the prosecution.

Just a quick question that has beem bothering me. Sigg will be 18 years old on Jan. 17th shouldn't that put him as an adult in CO. ? Then he has to face these charges as an Adult?

csziggy
11-02-2012, 12:13 AM
Do cat doors go on garage doors? I know nothing about cats. Wouldn't it be a lot less expensive to add a cat door to a people door ... or am I misunderstanding?

You can put a pet door in just about any place. We've got one that goes through the very thick exterior wall and one (that my husband needs to install) to go through the screen porch door. There are ones designed for various thicknesses of walls and door and different kinds of construction.

As long as the pet door does not increase the thickness too much or interfere with the action of the garage door, it can be installed.

I can see how someone might want to allow cats access to a sheltered area like a garage without allowing them access to the house.

MidwestMama
11-02-2012, 12:15 AM
Just a quick question that has beem bothering me. Sigg will be 18 years old on Jan. 17th shouldn't that put him as an adult in CO. ? Then he has to face these charges as an Adult?

Charges are based on the age you were at the time of the crime, however, certain circumstances allow even those under 18 to be charged as an adult. LE has already said they intend to try him as an adult. His lawyer is fighting against it but most agree he will be tried as an adult.

enzeder
11-02-2012, 12:17 AM
Do cat doors go on garage doors? I know nothing about cats. Wouldn't it be a lot less expensive to add a cat door to a people door ... or am I misunderstanding?

Has it ever been published that they had cats?. I shudder to think what may have happened to them if they did have any.

SUSPECT HAD INTEREST IN MORTUARY SCIENCE

Excerpt: "Meaghan Barker said Sigg did a project exploring how bodies decompose. He used skinned rats and placed them in several different environments, including freezing temperatures, covered in dirt and out in the open."

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=295910

Wishbone
11-02-2012, 12:18 AM
In the formal charges is: Count Number 9 Sexual Assault of a Child - http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/1030/20121030_121657_People%20v.%20Sigg%20Charging%20Do cument.pdf

I infer that shows there was some sort of sexual motivation despite a possible self serving confession from AS.



The sexual assault charge is the reason I have little faith in the details of the "confession" by the monster. Either he left that out or LE did not reveal that to us thru the media. Nice to see someone else understands my reasoning.

margarita25
11-02-2012, 12:23 AM
WARNING GRAPHIC

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but a neighbor who lives directly across the street from ARS quoted in the Denver Post something along the lines of their cat was found cut in half in the alley behind their house. I think last year?

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_21871553/police-strategy-may-have-spurred-mom-suspect-austin

otto
11-02-2012, 12:27 AM
Just a quick question that has beem bothering me. Sigg will be 18 years old on Jan. 17th shouldn't that put him as an adult in CO. ? Then he has to face these charges as an Adult?

He was under the age of 18 at the time of the criminal acts, and the law states that anyone under the age of 18 is a youth, where a youth can challenge the decision to have charges transferred out of youth court.

He will face the charges as an adult, but there are conditions due to his youth. Capital punishment is not allowed, and he cannot be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole. The charges add up to 40 years, so he could be given a sentence of 40 years before being eligible for parole ... and it will most likely never be granted ... so it is life.

EmilyB
11-02-2012, 12:30 AM
This is a great depiction of the house. My sister lives in Colorado and has a house like this. When you walk in the front door, you walk into the "formal" living room. About 10 feet from the front door on the left are stairs that lead up to the bedrooms. When you get to the top of those stairs there is a small hallway. To the right is the Master bedroom which leads to the doors and deck at the back of the house. The master bedroom has a full bath. To the left and at the front of the house (with the two small windows) are two small bedrooms. There is also a full bath off of the hallway to the left. Back to the formal living room: As you walk forward there is the kitchen at the back of the house. A wall separates the kitchen and formal living room. There are windows in the picture where the kitchen is. To the left (right after the short stairs that lead upstairs) there is a short set of stairs that leads down to the family room with has the fireplace. There is a railing in the kitchen so that you can look down into the living room. The sliding glass door opens from the living room to the backyard. If you enter from the garage: When you pull in the garage, to get in the house there are three steps that lead up to the door. When you walk in this door you are in the living room. TO THE RIGHT is a door to the basement. There is a full set of stairs that lead down to the basement. In my sisters house there is ANOTHER door at the bottom of the stairs. The basement in my sister's house is unfinished except for her son's "man cave" which is a big bedroom with a door. Also in the basement is the furnace and the washer and dryer, which is walled off from the larger room that is the man cave. The basement is plumbed for a bathroom. My sister doesn't have a bathroom yet but plans on putting one in. Maybe Austin's house does?. Off of the side of the room that has the man cave there is a small door to the crawl space. It is about 4 ft tall. The entire basement area is UNDER the part of the house which would be the formal living room and kitchen. I've never been in the crawl space (creepy), but it is in the direction of where the living room with fireplace is. I don't think it is as big as that room though. When I did look in, it looked to go back about 10 ft. In the basement there is also a sump pump hole (basically a hole in the concrete about 14 inches across) that is to prevent flooding. They are common in Colorado. That all being said....My sister has no idea what her son is doing in the basement and CAN NOT hear him down there either. I have been thinking a lot about this since Jessica....and I am pretty sure my nephew could have someone in the basement and my sister (who is a single parent) would not even know.

This is a GREAT description. I typed something out earlier that was similar but didn't make as much sense as yours did :) We lived in a smaller split level like this but without the basement, but I can imagine how where the basement would be situated if we did have one. We had a crawl space under the kitchen/formal living room that was right off our family room (that had an entrance from the garage) and a sliding door that led to the back yard.

It's hard to imagine unless you've been in a house like that...but once again, GREAT description!

otto
11-02-2012, 12:31 AM
You can put a pet door in just about any place. We've got one that goes through the very thick exterior wall and one (that my husband needs to install) to go through the screen porch door. There are ones designed for various thicknesses of walls and door and different kinds of construction.

As long as the pet door does not increase the thickness too much or interfere with the action of the garage door, it can be installed.

I can see how someone might want to allow cats access to a sheltered area like a garage without allowing them access to the house.

So a garage door (sheet metal?) would have a hole cut to install a cat door? Garage doors are expensive ... I don't know if I would mess with one for a cat. It makes so much more sense to me to put a cat door in the screen porch door.

Salem
11-02-2012, 12:32 AM
In the formal charges is: Count Number 9 Sexual Assault of a Child - http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/1030/20121030_121657_People%20v.%20Sigg%20Charging%20Do cument.pdf

I infer that shows there was some sort of sexual motivation despite a possible self serving confession from AS.

Thank you for this. I was sure the charges included sexual assault so I was having a hard time understanding what all the bickering was about.

Okay - csziggy has linked us up. Let's move on!

Thanks!

Salem

enzeder
11-02-2012, 12:33 AM
What about Clear Creek? Is that within a safe distance from his comfor zone ... for perhaps a first offense - which is usually farther from home. As comfort (getting away with it) settles in, the crimes are committed closer and closer to home. He is so bold that I wonder how that happened if it didn't happen during another ciminal act.

The location of where the body was found at Clear Creek is about 3.3 miles from Warren Tech North where AS was a student.

A = AS home
B = Approx. location of body found in Clear Creek, Wheat Ridge
C = Warren Tech North
http://goo.gl/maps/SgTU8

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased CO - *ARREST!* Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct. 2012 - #23

otto
11-02-2012, 12:35 AM
Has it ever been published that they had cats?. I shudder to think what may have happened to them if they did have any.

SUSPECT HAD INTEREST IN MORTUARY SCIENCE

Excerpt: "Meaghan Barker said Sigg did a project exploring how bodies decompose. He used skinned rats and placed them in several different environments, including freezing temperatures, covered in dirt and out in the open."

http://www.9news.com/rss/story.aspx?storyid=295910

By the creek, in the trees, in the crawl space, near the culvert ?

The autopsy toxicology report was pending at the time. I wonder whether the results were as expected ... maybe that's the suspicious part ... maybe nothing to do with it.

Where did he get the rats? Do they sell them at the college ... lab rats?

EmilyB
11-02-2012, 12:40 AM
So a garage door (sheet metal?) would have a hole cut to install a cat door? Garage doors are expensive ... I don't know if I would mess with one for a cat. It makes so much more sense to me to put a cat door in the screen porch door.

Garage doors could be wood? I'll have to go back and look, but it looks like they are older wooden doors.

EmilyB
11-02-2012, 12:44 AM
As to why there would be a cat door on the garage door. Someone mentioned that they may want to provide shelter but not allow access into the house and I agree with that. I know some people leave their garage door cracked but it would make more sense to leave it closed and install a small door if possible, for security reasons.

It could have been there already when they moved in.

Ransom
11-02-2012, 12:48 AM
Someone posted earlier about this: IF you go to the source (Wheatridge PD) they have a release that body was ID, family asked that her name not be made public, pending toxic screen, etc.

ME. Over and over again. Is there an echo in here?

Here it is again:

Wheat Ridge PD ... always to to the SOURCE.

http://www.ci.wheatridge.co.us/Search.aspx?SearchString=body

Scroll down to ARCHIVES and read.