A Dream

[princessmer81]

Does anyone else have dreams about Jon Benet?

I had one for the first time last night. It is probably because I have been reading Steves book.
In my dream Jon Benet was in bed and she had blond hair but it was only chin length. I walked in the bed room and started walking towards her and she looked scared. A little white dog was in the room with her at it had a bandage over it's ear. She said "Oh no! stay away, stay away. I am being a good girl now." I said "I'm not going to hurt you." then she said "I was such a bad girl and mommy got so mad, she just couldn't help it." The whole time she seemed afraid.
That was all. When I woke up I was really upset.

Anyone else ever have dreams like this?

[BrotherMoon]

The dream is about you and/or your unconscious, not the Ramsey case.

[princessmer81]

The dream is about you and/or your unconscious, not the Ramsey case.
I agree. I don't think that Jon Benet was "speaking to me from beyond the grave" or anything. I just wondered if anyone has dreams like this as a result of reading or thinking so much about the case.

When I got to work I remembered that a co-worker had shown me a picture last week of her black lab with a bandage on his ear - I am sure that is were the dog in the dream came from.

[Eagle1]

Your mind was just filing away the impressions you'd collected, like a defrag, sort of, I guess.

[Jayelles]

I'm an incredibly deep sleeper and I don't usually remember my dreams but I did have one - a few years ago which I can recall because I posted about it at the time.

I was in Charlevoix and I was walking along the sea front (I have no idea what Charlevoix actually looks like BTW). There were nice shops and then I bumped into Patsy ramsey and JonBenet. Patsy asked me if I'd like to go back to theirs for a coffee and I accepted. We walked along the shops until we came to a mall and then we went into the mall. The first shop on the left hand side sold haberdashery and I got excited by that :-) However, we walked towards the back of the mall where there was a double door. We went through the door and there was a flight of stairs with Charles Rennie mackintosh style railings. Up the stairs and we came to a door which was their house. Inside was dark and Patsy said she'd go and put the kettle on. JonBenet asked me if I'd like to see her pageant costumes and I said yes. She took me into her bedroom and there was a free standing wardrobe with a box on top. She asked me to reach this own for her which I did. Then we took the box into another little bedroom where she opened it. The pageant costume was white - like a First Communion type dress. A phone was ringing and Patsy answered it. It was her mother. That's all I remember. Incidentally, the house that was the Ramsey house in my dream was a cross between my aunt's flat and my old dancing teacher's flat (a flat is an apartment here). The rooms were small and the internal doors had windows above them to let light into the hallway.

I'd be interested to have it interpreted.

[gaia]

I haven't had a JonBenet dream yet, but I do want to say dreams have more than one level/interpretation. BroMoon is on track with his post, but there is also the literal level to consider. Dreams are your inner self telling you things in story form to get you to pay attention, see what's being said and shown, and use the wise material to continue to grow and reach wholeness. Your inner self wants you to be complete. Have you ever had a dream, then the next night you had another one that was more colorful and insistent, then another one after a few days that became a bit scary, then another that was real scary? No, they aren't usually about the same things, but the group of dreams are trying to get you to know something. If you're dopey and don't try to understand, the inner self gets a little rough with you - thus the scary dream. I can't tell you how many times I've been lazy and didn't think about my dream only to be hit over the head with the next one. Then I'm in that "OK, I get it" mode.

Sorry, I know this isn't a psych thread in particular, but just thought I'd spew stuff. :blushing:

[BrotherMoon]

I'm an incredibly deep sleeper and I don't usually remember my dreams but I did have one - a few years ago which I can recall because I posted about it at the time.

I was in Charlevoix and I was walking along the sea front (I have no idea what Charlevoix actually looks like BTW). There were nice shops and then I bumped into Patsy ramsey and JonBenet. Patsy asked me if I'd like to go back to theirs for a coffee and I accepted. We walked along the shops until we came to a mall and then we went into the mall. The first shop on the left hand side sold haberdashery and I got excited by that :-) However, we walked towards the back of the mall where there was a double door. We went through the door and there was a flight of stairs with Charles Rennie mackintosh style railings. Up the stairs and we came to a door which was their house. Inside was dark and Patsy said she'd go and put the kettle on. JonBenet asked me if I'd like to see her pageant costumes and I said yes. She took me into her bedroom and there was a free standing wardrobe with a box on top. She asked me to reach this own for her which I did. Then we took the box into another little bedroom where she opened it. The pageant costume was white - like a First Communion type dress. A phone was ringing and Patsy answered it. It was her mother. That's all I remember. Incidentally, the house that was the Ramsey house in my dream was a cross between my aunt's flat and my old dancing teacher's flat (a flat is an apartment here). The rooms were small and the internal doors had windows above them to let light into the hallway.

I'd be interested to have it interpreted.

Sea front is in between land and sea, symbolic of the ego between consciousness and the unconscious. The double female image of Patsy and Jonbenet refers to your shadow persona; a major and minor function of the psyche (we have four, and usually rely on one major and one secondary). Or this is adult and child archetypes. Your shadow invited you in to the unconscious. Left is the unconscious. Down is toward the instincts and energy, up is toward form and structure. Putting the kettle on is symbolic of libido potential; content coming form the unconscious. Clothes are the persona, social identity. White is purity, innocence, this is an image of the child archetype. The phone ring is a message from the unconscious, like from a bird or angel. Patsy gets the message from the archetypal mother while you get an image from the archetypal child.

[gaia]

If anyone wants to know more about dream symbols, a good beginning is in the THE HERDER DICTIONARY OF SYMBOLS and MAN AND HIS SYMBOLS, the latter being originally written by Carl G. Jung - edited by others. :cool:

[BrotherMoon]

The meaning of dream content can't be pinned down exactly, and an absolutist approach should be avoided. Dreams should be used as source material for amplification with a competent analyst. The dream can be used to study archetypal, personal and social material. Be careful when trying to draw conclusions about outer events from a dream. Think in terms of possibilities more than actualities. Final conclusions are drawn by a conscious moral personality, the interpretation is ours.

[Jayelles]

Sea front is in between land and sea, symbolic of the ego between consciusness and the unconscious. The double female image of Patsy and Jonbenet refers to your shadow persona; a major and minor function of the psyche (we have four, and usually rely on one major and one secondary). Or this is adult and child archetypes. Your shadow invited you in to the unconscious. Left is the unconscious. Down is toward the instincts and energy, up is toward form and structure. Putting the kettle on is symbolic of libido potential; content coming form the unconscious. Clothes are the persona, social identity. White is purity, innocence, this is an image of the child archetype. The phone ring is a message from the unconscious, like from a bird or angel. Patsy gets the message from the archetypal mother while you get an image from the archetypal child.
LOL. Never mind all this archetypal stuff - what does it mean in plain English?

When I returned from maternity leave I had a bit of a nightmare. I dreamt that my boss came to see me and informed me that I had to teach German to a junior class. I felt panic-stricken because I don't understand much German. In my dream I protested but my boss told me it would be OK - that I only needed to be "one lesson ahead" of the class I was teaching and so I could learn it as I was going along. So I prepared a lesson and when I went into the class to teach it - lo and behold instead of a normal sized class, there was an entire lecture theatre filled with all the pupils in our school. If that wasn't bad enough, I looked down to the left and there was a boy who spoke fluent german so I broke into a sweat because I knew that HE would know I was a fraud. My mouth opened and shut a few times as I braced myself to start this lesson when suddenly there was a shout from some pupils and it was one of my regular classes. They had found a baby owl underneath the desk. All of the pupils were so distracted by the baby owl that my skin was saved from giving the dreaded lesson!

This was such a vivid dream and I couldn't resist telling my class about it. They thought this was hilariously funny and after that I called them my baby owls. At the end of the year, they presented me with a little Beanie Baby owl :-)

One day I got into conversation with a German teacher in the staff room and she told me that my dream represented my lack of confidence at returning to work after my maternity leave and that the baby owl was my baby daughter and that since it saved my bacon - it represented how much I appreciated having her! I don't know if this was a decent interpretation of the dream, but I kind of liked it anyway!

[gaia]

That interpretation goes a long way in the interpretation. Deal is, if you had those books I mentioned, you could see what the symbols in your dream might mean. You see, the baby owl, the assignment to teach a class about something you didn't know, the BOY who knew fluent german, the fact you spell german with a small g, the description of your mouth opening and shutting a few times, your pronouncement you knew the BOY was a fraud. These things are yield answers in symbology. Now, if you don't want to know anything about that, OK. Thing is, this symbology has been around since folks appeared on this earth. It is very meaningful. I think of it as the basic language that talks to me from the first person on this earth. This language describes primitive things, but those are the very things that can and will always influence who I am and what I understand about living. Older people seem to get this sooner than the young...probably because the older generation isn't so busy with the present and can allow reflection and deep introspection. I guess I should send you a private message and tell you more about your dream. Not tonight, though. Or perhaps BroMoon will. He's good for it. :)

[BrotherMoon]

LOL. Never mind all this archetypal stuff - what does it mean in plain English?


The first dream means you can be informed by your inferior side.

The owl can see in the dark. The dark side ain't all bad.

We have anxiety about judgement, if we are moral (the boy who knew German).

[Jayelles]

That interpretation goes a long way in the interpretation. Deal is, if you had those books I mentioned, you could see what the symbols in your dream might mean. You see, the baby owl, the assignment to teach a class about something you didn't know, the BOY who knew fluent german, the fact you spell german with a small g, the description of your mouth opening and shutting a few times, your pronouncement you knew the BOY was a fraud. These things are yield answers in symbology. Now, if you don't want to know anything about that, OK. Thing is, this symbology has been around since folks appeared on this earth. It is very meaningful. I think of it as the basic language that talks to me from the first person on this earth. This language describes primitive things, but those are the very things that can and will always influence who I am and what I understand about living. Older people seem to get this sooner than the young...probably because the older generation isn't so busy with the present and can allow reflection and deep introspection. I guess I should send you a private message and tell you more about your dream. Not tonight, though. Or perhaps BroMoon will. He's good for it. :)
Just a couple of points - I often don't capitalise proper nouns. It's a typo. I type very quickly and frequently take my finger off the shift key too quickly. I notice the errors but don't correct them because typos aren't a big deal to me.

Secondly - it was the boy who spoke fluent German who was going to know that I was the fraud - not me thinking that the boy was a fraud.

[Jayelles]

The first dream means you can be informed by your inferior side.

The owl can see in the dark. The dark side ain't all bad.

We have anxiety about judgement, if we are moral (the boy who knew German).
Inferior side? OK, I'm a left-side of brain person - good at maths, logical and practical. I am not creative and I lack imagination - these are the right side of the brain characteristics. I long to be creative but it's just not there. I cheat on the creative side by drawing from reality. My school essays were always factual. I can simulate creativity by copying, adapting or merging existing designs. I'm good at construction - but not at design.

Is that what you mean by being informed by my inferior side?

[BrotherMoon]

Inferior side? OK, I'm a left-side of brain person - good at maths, logical and practical. I am not creative and I lack imagination - these are the right side of the brain characteristics. I long to be creative but it's just not there. I cheat on the creative side by drawing from reality. My school essays were always factual. I can simulate creativity by copying, adapting or merging existing designs. I'm good at construction - but not at design.

Is that what you mean by being informed by my inferior side?

Not just that. It's more of a shadow thing, the unconscious side, the dark side, the repressed, forgotten or undiscovered side of your personality. This is a typical theme in the dreams and conscious concerns of adults that are entering middle age or advancing in maturity. You might want to read up on the Jungian shadow and temperament psychology. It sounds like you are an ISTJ or ESTJ, a thinking sensor. The creativity you long for would come through the inferior functions NF, intuitive feeling. "You" in terms of ego may not be creative, but you can participate with the creative process by dialoguing with the inner images.

Your shadow is willing to share, the Patsy image makes a warm drink and the JonBenet image shows you a communion image, again sharing. The youth images are symbolic of potential, the potential in the shadow. These are positive dreams. The authority anxiety dream is a reminder that there is an authority (God, nature, the unconscious) and we should know about that before we profess.

[gaia]

Dream interpretation isn't something a person decides to do one day and does it the next. That doesn't mean you can't get something from your dream almost immediately without benefit of psychoanalysis or reading lots of books. All that helps a lot, but the most important thing to remember is your dreams are yours. You are the most able to interpret and understand them. BroMoon goes by age-old symbols to see into your dreams. That's cool. He's on target as far as I can tell (as if that means anything). Deal is, with a little more knowledge about symbols, you can see into yourself far better than anyone else can. After all, your dreams are to assist you...not BroMoon or anyone else.

I must admit I've been in psychoanalysis for many years. After a six month hiatus, I decided to resume the therapy and had a telephone call session with my psychologist today. Deal is, I've been investigating all this for many, many years. Also, I have an afinity for psychology. No, I don't have a degree in the subject, but I think my life experience and intense investigation of it gives me some qualifications. I wouldn't presume to interpret your dreams. I can just tell you the subjects I mentioned in my post concerning your dream images were just a small part of the symbolism going on there. I didn't learn how to look at what I dreamt quickly or easily. I did, however, read a lot and try to remember to wake up (even if it's in the middle of the night), write what I could easily remember (key words) that could help me remember more later, or get up in the morning and write this down immediately, go back, write this stuff in more detail, get out my symbolism books, look at the whole thing after examining the basic symbols, and try to see what this dream might be telling me. It's like learning a foreign language - unfortunately. Our society doesn't work with this language very much except in the arts. Art is full of symbols - old ones repeating themselves over and over again. I'm a potter and I can't believe the symbols I carve into pots! They're often things I don't remember ever seeing before, yet when I go to a museum (British Museum is a good example) I'm overwhelmed how many times the things I put on or in pots have been around for thousands of years. Gotta be something going on there.

This isn't voodoo. It's quite legitimate. :blowkiss:

[Eagle1]

Soon after my long-awaited first child was born, I had a dream that I was in an elevator and had somehow lost her!

So I always interpreted that as meaning I had anxiety about her.

[gaia]

I'd take those symbols - first, child, elevator, lost and go from there. I think you are right, but there is more there. Dreams have so many layers. For instance, have you ever considered the idea YOU are the first child, you gave birth - so the first child might possibly be lost now because the little child in you has been replaced by the one you just gave birth to, lost might mean you might fear you couldn't ever access your little girl (which you still have and always will unless you turn your back on her), the elevator tells you perhaps that your inner little child isn't really lost - just become imbedded a little deeper in your subconscious - so don't forget her - she's there and needs to still be a part of you (even if you are now an adult mother), and now you can feel relieved and satisfied with your new little child as well as your own.

Now, that's not necessarily telling you anything except my own interpretation. See what I mean? If you know the symbols, you will surely see more important stuff for you. I don't even know you, so what do I know? All I know are some of the symbols. Yet, that dream seems clear to me. Who knows? Deal is, there is much more to us than the surface life. How could we think otherwise? We're part of the first people that ever walked on this earth. We're comprised of the elements of the earth. When we die, we return to those basic elements. It's worthwhile to explore as much as our wonderful minds and souls and breath will take us.

Wow, now everyone will think I'm as weird as I actually am. I try to hide it, but guess I've been busted!!! :doh:

[twilight]

I'm curious - was there a big change going on in your life, say career or residence when you had the JB/P dream?

What I got out of your dream - linguistically speaking - is that you are a fence sitter for the most part. Look at the following word choices that carry meaning:-
dark/light

stand(ing)/flight

walk(ing/ed)/stand(ing)

bumped/flat

no/yes

You also made 20 references to either a house or apartment/flat with doors, hallway, railings, rooms, stairs, bedroom, windows - that was being 'let.'

Somehow aunt, mother and teacher figure in all this. But they're your titles not mine.

There were several references to religious items as well such as Communion, cross, white, light. The specific reference to First Communion probably makes you either High Anglican or Catholic.

There are numberous references to 'shopping' and 'clothing' items as well and there was probably some concern around this at the time of the dream. I don't know what you can remember about the 'real world' around you at that time, but I'm guessing somewhere in all this language is the real issue that you were trying to resolve.

Now, I'm thinking it would have been better if you'd plunged into the lake (by the way not 'sea' in Charlevoix). Right Brother Moon? You would have emerged enlightened! Of course, fence sitters would be loath to get their feet wet AND HENCE are left to ponder the truth...endlessly.

The repeated mention of Charlevoix and then the reiteration of 'Charles' leads me to wonder if this name has any significance for you in the real world? Know any Charlies or Chucks?

When you put 'kettle' and 'coffee' together, I get 'instant coffee.' Taking that one step further as BrotherMoon did, you've got instant flashpoint associated with Patsy. Of course, your dream is your interpretation of Patsy.

You only have one colour in the whole dream - white. You mention numbers - interestingly 'double' and then two references to 'first.'

I guess you probably can't remember if you were wakened by the phone? That's usually when my dreams start to ring...

You mention 5 directions in your dream: front, left, back, side, top. Funny how they all relate to the case. What I'm curious about is if you think of your life back when you had this dream, do they suggest anything to you?

[ManInTheBox]

Many experts believe that you represent everyone in your dreams. Your dreams are a very interesting part of you. Although no I have never had a dream about JonBenet I would agree with BrotherMoon. It is about something you have experienced in your life, nothing to do with the Ramsey case. Though it would be extremely weird if that were true...and cool.

[BrotherMoon]

Does anyone else have dreams about Jon Benet?

I had one for the first time last night. It is probably because I have been reading Steves book.
In my dream Jon Benet was in bed and she had blond hair but it was only chin length. I walked in the bed room and started walking towards her and she looked scared. A little white dog was in the room with her at it had a bandage over it's ear. She said "Oh no! stay away, stay away. I am being a good girl now." I said "I'm not going to hurt you." then she said "I was such a bad girl and mommy got so mad, she just couldn't help it." The whole time she seemed afraid.
That was all. When I woke up I was really upset.

Anyone else ever have dreams like this?

When we are infants and small children we are full of unchecked, instinctual behavior. It is up to the parents and adults of society to tell us what is acceptable and what is not. We integrate the acceptable behaviors and the unacceptable behaviors fall into the unconscious and becomes our shadow. This can be a haphazard process with some good qualities falling by the wayside. Our instincts (little white dog) can be wounded in the process. Your inner child was harmed somehow by unconscious parenting. It happens to us all.

[BrotherMoon]

Now, I'm thinking it would have been better if you'd plunged into the lake (by the way not 'sea' [COLOR=Teal]in Charlevoix). Right Brother Moon? You would have emerged enlightened!

No, that is incorrect. The content of the dream comes from the unconscious. There never was a choice for the ego to make in terms of plunging or going into the mall. Also, the sea image is from the unconscious. The imagery is about the unconscious, not the actual place.

The dreamer was invited into a structure, "in" and "up". That imagery is as different from water as ideas are from instincts.

[gaia]

This the problem with armchair dream-interpreters/psychologists. None of us are qualified to interpret your dream. We are so off the cuff we're not even liable for incorrectly informing you. Brother Moon has lots of knowledge about this stuff, but he doen't know you...he doesn't know your background or anything. He is strictly (correct me if I'm wrong BroMoon) going "by the book" so to speak. That's dangerous. Thing is, if you are truly interested in understanding your own dreams, get some help with psychologist-directed info, books to explain symbols, etc. This stuff is simple, but tricky. Simple because it's age-old. Tricky because we have been raised since birth to deny there is anything going on in our minds besides the literal learning of contemporary knowledge. We're all lauded if we learn chemistry, but anything more primitive and age-old is dismissed as weird, voodoo, silly psychobabble, etc. That's really sad because The Bible is replete with great symbols and any scripture you read has several layers to it. If that's true of the Bible, think about everything else.

Anyhow, it's not that I don't want to talk about this. It's that we're loose-canons. I'd love to start a thread in the Jury Room about this and we can all speculate to our heart's content.

I just know "a little knowledge CAN be a dangerous thing". To me, a little knowledge whets my appetite and I pursue more - mostly because the more I know, the less I know. It's an endless chase, but the road yields fertile things.

I'm through. :blushing:

[Jayelles]

I don't remember precisely when I had my dream but I'd guess around 2001/2002. Not really any major changes in my life though - plenty of work pressure around that time.

I'm not religious - somewhere between atheist and agnostic.

Don't know any Charleses but I adore Charles rennie mackintosh designs.

Love haberdashery shops - my favourite.

We went to Florida some time around then and I fell in love with the malls.

I have happy memories of my Aunt and dancing teachers' flats.

What is unusual is that I remembered the dream when I wakened up. I rarely recall dreams.

[Eagle1]

I'd take those symbols ..... the elevator tells you perhaps that your inner little child isn't really lost - just become imbedded a little deeper in your subconscious - so don't forget her - she's there and needs to still be a part of you (even if you are now an adult mother), and now you can feel relieved and satisfied with your new little child as well as your own.

The elevator tells me that? Wow, that's nice to know. We're a lot alike, btw, even to the pottery thing, Gaia. One time I made a vase 14" tall, but the person loading the kiln broke it so I can't ever prove that. I like psychology too, and so does this daughter. She was majoring in it but switched to decorating. Back to the dream, maybe it was simply that my daughter didn't come with an instruction book and I may have been thinking I'd bitten off more than I could chew, think I said that already. Could it have been partly prophetic too? When she was 11 mo. old she had to stay a few days in a hospital. I wish I would have a dream about the JonBenet case. Thanks for the replies.

[gaia]

I anguished after telling you what I thought the elevator meant in your dream. If the elevator goes up, you are in the super-consciousness - spiritual realm. If it goes down, you are going into the subscious - the deep, dark, wise feminine subterranean world. Anyhoo, you can see why I hate to talk too much about dream interpretation.

Wow, you are a potter too? Cool. I moved last summer and haven't quite got my studio completely assembled again. We need to get some electric and plumbing work done. I can throw on my wheel and hand-build as well, but it's a ***** to wash up without my sink. What kind of pottery do you do? I dabble in several types - raku, oxydation-firing, and reduction method. I became serious about throwing in porcelain - it's like cream cheese, but use raku clay and heavily-grogged clay as well. It's such a wonderful thing to do!! More power to you...and anyone else out there. :dance:

[Eagle1]

Since I posted about the 42 yrs ago one, anxiety about my baby daughter who afterwards had to go to the hospital at 11 mo., I must have had that on the brain, and last night I dreamed I had two babies, 11 mo. apart, and had to get a twin stroller. At age 68. Funny! I don't think either dream had any deep meaning, just my mind trying to digest what I'd been thinking about. I think the elevator was a hospital one, where I'd first brought her home, and at some point it may have been a shopping trip or whatever.

About "throwing" pots, one of us better explain in case others are reading that's making one on a pottery wheel is called "throwing" it. You're doing it professionally. I just had three college semesters as part of a Fine Arts degree with lots of other art courses. Sure was relaxing and fun though. I spent way too much time at it. (Professionally, I'm a Union musician, have worked for symphony orchestras, doing some arranging with a computer notation program, and have promised I'll go back into church organ subbing if there's enough light that I can still read the music and all. It takes more and more light, any more. One woman sub passed away, I just learned, and another took a full time job at another church. She's younger.)

[twilight]

BrotherMoon, Jayelle stood on the shore at the edge of the water. I'm talking about plunging into the water and travelling down through the psyche and then achieving enlightenment. The mall - apartment is a whole other ball game.

Jayelle interjected herself into her narrative in the bracketed remarks (I have no idea what Charlevoix actually looks like BTW) - so I was responding to this by saying it is not a sea shore, but rather a lake.

But I'm surprised you wouldn't agree that a large body of water is symbolic of inner contemplation - internal evaluation blah, blah, blah...

As for messing around with dream interpretation, I think Jayelle can probably handle it. She seems like a pretty solid sort and has been around this forum forever backspacing flamers and all that. And I for one do not think anyone will be going to jail real soon based on her dream. They're probably more likely to head off to the mall, or their local haberdashery shop. :) Now there is an interesting word in relationship to this case. Maybe looking for something for a concealed wound, or some such thing - remember the use of opposites 'bumped' and 'flat'.

Jayelle:- what does the phrase 'First Communion' mean to you then, if you're not religious? You may not currently be, but somewhere I'm guessing you learned this phrase.

We don't get that much rain here, so I don't know who Charles rennie mackintosh is? Brand name, I'm guessing? Or what?

Anyway, the focus of your dream as you tell it is a house or apartment with many features like stairs, windows, railings, hallway, door, bedroom, etc. You mention these associated things 20 times in your narrative. They stand out because of this. They are in a sense the main topic of your dream as you now recite it.

You also mention 'malls' and items of clothing a lot. I think you probably are quite correct in your assessment of this - being the trip to the States. Of course, here again you are travelling over water.

My understanding of houses is that travelling up is a good thing. Opening doors is a good thing. Windows that let in light are a good thing. Overall, not a very sombre dream. As a matter of fact, there is not a single sombre word in the entire dream. Now, that's odd. This, in effect, is a pleasant dream with not a single word that jars. :cool:

[BrotherMoon]

But I'm surprised you wouldn't agree that a large body of water is symbolic of inner contemplation - internal evaluation blah, blah, blah...


It isn't. Clear and shallow water is symbolic of the personal unconscious. Deep and salt water is symbolic of the collective unconscious.

[BrotherMoon]

If the elevator goes up, you are in the super-consciousness - spiritual realm.

There is no such thing as the super-consciousness. There is only consciousness and the unconscious. The archetypal psyche gets projected out, unconsciously, as the spirit realm, the realm of the Gods. Consciousness and the unconscious are very different in nature. The unconscious has male aspects as well as female.

[IrishMist]

It isn't. Clear and shallow water is symbolic of the personal unconscious. Deep and salt water is symbolic of the collective unconscious.
I thought water meant emotion?

[twilight]

Okay, BrotherMoon, define your science. How many feet/meters of water constitute deep and/or shallow? At what precise point does one become the other? And is this a perception or a measured fact and does someone who doesn't know what they are looking at, know what depth the unknown whatever is? Remember, replicable measurements are de rigueur to equate a science.

Jayelle - I hope you're paying attention and will supply the answer to how deep was deep, or conversely how shallow was shallow? This could be important. {{I'm not sure how?}} Salt is definately a factor - I think - but don't quote me - I think the Great Lakes are salt water. But I've only ever been a few miles east of Kenora - except for the time I flew to Montreal, so I could be wrong about this. In the back of my mind a little voice is saying - no lakes are always fresh water. And I believe they are, but I also vaguely remember a story about someone talking about the bouyancy of the Great Lakes - created by the salt. Guess I better Google it.

[BrotherMoon]

I thought water meant emotion?

Water in general is the unconscious. The unconscious is energy, psychic libido. One of the effects of libido movement is emotions. The interpretation of water as emotion is a subjective judgement. If one has gained a measure of objectivity, one can separate cause and effect. That is why depth psychologists call the unconscious the objective psyche. Water images can have a personal content and a non or trans personal content. Clear and shallow water is the personal content. The deeper and the murkier the water the more likely the content reflects the transpersonal. Just where the two differentiate is not clear and any conclusions in this regard should be left open for modification.

Dream interpretation of a certain image can bring up several subjects or storylines, some even opposite in nature. They should be used for consideration not stone etching.

Jung coined the phrase emperical science. He recognized the value of the scientific method and also the characteristics of the creature that was doing the observing part of the method: a human. He recognized that we project unconsciously onto what we observe. And he recognized the projection can have an archetypal source in the deep unconscious.

Scientific materialism is a major failure in this regard.

[Jayelles]

Okay, BrotherMoon, define your science. How many feet/meters of water constitute deep and/or shallow? At what precise point does one become the other? And is this a perception or a measured fact and does someone who doesn't know what they are looking at, know what depth the unknown whatever is? Remember, replicable measurements are de rigueur to equate a science.

Jayelle - I hope you're paying attention and will supply the answer to how deep was deep, or conversely how shallow was shallow? This could be important. {{I'm not sure how?}} Salt is definately a factor - I think - but don't quote me - I think the Great Lakes are salt water. But I've only ever been a few miles east of Kenora - except for the time I flew to Montreal, so I could be wrong about this. In the back of my mind a little voice is saying - no lakes are always fresh water. And I believe they are, but I also vaguely remember a story about someone talking about the bouyancy of the Great Lakes - created by the salt. Guess I better Google it.
Sorry Twi. I missed the question about deep. I'm working long hours just now - be gentle with me :-)

Are you referring to the water? Or my sleep? I'll answer both. The water in the dream was like a promenade - wide path with a low wall over the wall is a beach and then water. That is my experience of sea-side holiday resorts so that was how lakeside Charlevoix was represented in my dream. The water would have been shallow at the shore and getting deeper as it went out.

My sleep - is very deep. I shut my eyes and literally I am dead to the world within minutes. I take no drugs or medication of any kind - unless you count coffee. I can sleep through thunderstorms and I suffer from neck and shoulder stiffness because I often sleep in the same position all night. I don't need a lot of sleep (I can function adequately on 4/5 hours although I prefer 7/8) and I do hear my alarm in the morning. I don't sleep during the day and I don't doze off in the evenings.

First Communion means little girls in white bridal-type dresses to me. They used to make a procession in the town where I lived.

I think not all of the lakes are fresh water. I'm sure my brother told me that. In Scotland we call them lochs but some are sea-lochs and they are salt water.

Twi - you will LOVE Charles Rennie MacKintosh. He was an art nouveau designer and his stuff is HOT. Info:-

http://www.crmsociety.com/

[twilight]

Brother Moon said: It isn't. Clear and shallow water is symbolic of the personal unconscious. Deep and salt water is symbolic of the collective unconscious.

Jayelle, the point I was attempting (not well) to make was that only you could determine what the water was like...and because your perceptions were off a bit - not really about Charlevoix because you are not familiar with Charlevoix - what would be the relevance of an interpretation of your dream.

My original point was that water was symbolic of internal contemplation. And I think that is about all that observers like myself and BrotherMoon can say. You however can say deep or shallow, clear or salt, etc. etc.

And BrotherMoon, I'm wondering if you're aware that some would say there is no unconscious? And almost as emphatically as you told Gaia, there is no super-consciousness.

And that pretty much summarizes what we need to remember about Jung. It's all just a bunch of opinions.

One last thing - Jayelle, you chose certain words to tell your dream. Had it been a current dream it would be really relevant. But none-the-less they were your choices. Therefore, an examination of your words will tell the observer what you chose to make important in your dream.

Important enough to tell us about were: residences, people, clothing and shopping. The residence included apartment and houses. The people included JB and PR, aunt, mother and teacher and then that designer - Charles Rennie MacIntosh. You were conflicted about a lot of things: dark/light, flight/standing, yes/no, walking/standing, bumped/flat. You mentioned religious items, directions, and of course, that phone ringing. Because you chose your words, they must have had some relevance to you.

So, my advise - think about the choices you made and therein will lie the answer.

[BrotherMoon]

And that pretty much summarizes what we need to remember about Jung. It's all just a bunch of opinions.



No, it isn't. It's a matter of experience.

[pennygram]

I haven't had a JonBenet dream yet, but I do want to say dreams have more than one level/interpretation. BroMoon is on track with his post, but there is also the literal level to consider. Dreams are your inner self telling you things in story form to get you to pay attention, see what's being said and shown, and use the wise material to continue to grow and reach wholeness. Your inner self wants you to be complete. Have you ever had a dream, then the next night you had another one that was more colorful and insistent, then another one after a few days that became a bit scary, then another that was real scary? No, they aren't usually about the same things, but the group of dreams are trying to get you to know something. If you're dopey and don't try to understand, the inner self gets a little rough with you - thus the scary dream. I can't tell you how many times I've been lazy and didn't think about my dream only to be hit over the head with the next one. Then I'm in that "OK, I get it" mode.

Sorry, I know this isn't a psych thread in particular, but just thought I'd spew stuff. :blushing:That was a very astute analysis. I would like to talk to you more about that. I am brand new at this, just joined, am very into the jbr case and still trying to figure out whatall the threads, recent postings etc are.:clap: