NH & MA-Maura Murray

[Timex]

hydemi
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1

to megan & grassyknoll

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Dear folks,

I had posted two replies concerning the coincidence of the Petrit Vasi hit and run story with the events of Maura Murray's leaving UMass one year ago on Monday Feb 9th.

Megan had first posted a link to the Daily Collegian story dated 2/9/04 which described Vasi as having been found unconscious at 12.20am the morning of 2/6/04, that is shortly after midnight Thursday Feb 5th.

It turns out there are two more DC stories on Vasi in their archive, both saying the hit and run was unsolved, and the second one in October saying he is ok and recovering from his head injuries but cannot remember what happened after he had been out for the evening drinking with friends.

The coincidence is timing.

The posts on mm.com by Faith on 12/10/04 and on 1/12/05 say that Maura had talked to her sister that evening after 10pm presumably while she was at her campus security job--whether by cellphone or otherwise is unclear.

The newspapers had said that Maura was upset by a phone call that evening and had to be escorted home from her job around 1am by her supervisor.

According to Faith's posts the family & friends of Maura have been unable to verify this and unable to speak to the supervisor.

I merely asked whether it is known if Maura had used her car that evening, around midnight, and whether she used her car to get back and forth to her campus security job.

Obviously if she was on foot or being escorted at home at the same time as Vasi was being struck by a car, she could not have been involved.

[Peabody]

hydemi
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1

to megan & grassyknoll

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Dear folks,

I merely asked whether it is known if Maura had used her car that evening, around midnight, and whether she used her car to get back and forth to her campus security job.

Obviously if she was on foot or being escorted at home at the same time as Vasi was being struck by a car, she could not have been involved.
It is my opinion that anything is possible.

HOWEVER, I know that the Murray family are especially pleased with the effort of the UMass Police regarding their investigation of Maura's missing. THEREFORE, I am assuming that they did a thorough investigation to determine if there was a connection between Maura and Vasi with the outcome being THERE WAS NOT a connection or it would have been announced.

What is known, but adds to the mystery of Maura being in her car in NH is that the Saturn was having serious mechanical problems.

She had been sharing rides with a fellow nursing student to clinicals. Both of her jobs were with in walking distance from her dorm. Another close UMass friend has stated that she was shocked that Maura was so far from campus in her car because she would not even drive it to the grocery for fear of becoming stranded - which is what happened only a short time before the semester began.....at that time, she had called AAA and per her Dad's suggestion had AAA car tow the car to UMass to remain until they could trade it in.

Last year during that time, there was a great deal of snow, ice and cold temperatures.....It would only be reasonable that she would not want to be stranded. What is not clear is what motivated her to get in a car she feared to drive locally and drive a distance taking 3 + hours ??

[CyberLaw]

It had been reported by her campus friends that she had not driven or started her car in three weeks.

She received the call at her campus security desk, not on a cell or otherwise.

The campus is a "pedestiran" oriented campus. There has been several "people hit with cars" and the school installed safety "bumps" to reduce these numbers.

She was driving her Father's car on the night of the "suspected drinking and driving "accident"" at 3:30 a.m. on Sunday February 8, 2004.

She was at a party in another dorm room, and did not have to "drive" home or "drive at all to return home from the party."

Drinking and driving is a danger not only to the driver but to every other person driving or walking.

Very, irresponsible, poor judgement and very dangerous. Lots of innocent people die that way........

She went to a party and was drinking, left around 2:30 -3:00 a.m. She "suddenly decided to go wake up "Dad" in the middle of the night.

Again people who have been drinking have poor judgement.

Her friends told her just to go back to her room. One friend was passed out.

She got behind the wheel of her Father's new car, crashed into a "road post, guardrail(at the side of the road, not much if any traffic at this time)and caused 10K in damage.

Her Dad found out about this that morning. Was she "honest about the circumstances" about this accident.?

I guess Dad would wonder why she was travelling to see him at 3:30 a.m. after a party if she had been honest.

Or even if she did not tell him about the party, why she would not just call him at 3:30 a.m. and decide to drive over and see him.

Why would she feel that she needed to go to his hotel room and wake him up.

Now do you think that her Dad was still willing to "help" her buy a new car after that and do you really think that she wanted to report the "accident" and fill out the insurance forms considering the circumstances of the accident.

Guess what......if it was my child, the answer to a)would be, I am not even going to consider buying you a new car after you decided to drink and drive and caused, 10K in damage. Your driving priviledges are suspended and you are darn lucky that a)you are not dead and b)someone else is not dead.

If you got arrested, while at least you are still alive.

I am extremely disappointed and thank god that you are still alive. I though I raised you in a better manner then to decide to break the law.

I hope that the Insurance company "may" honor the claim. If there is evidence(by interviewing other students)that alcohol was a factor in the accident, the claim will be denied and Fred Murray is out 10K for his own car and the money he "may" have spent on Maura's new car, had he bought her one.

The insurance company would have investigated as soon as she filed the insurance form.

The insurance company will see glaring "RED FLAGS" in regards to the first accident. Especially considering her age.

Then the day after this accident on the evening of February 9, 2004, she has another accident in her own car where "alcohol" was a factor and "crashed".

She was drinking while she was driving, picked up booze "along" the way, with no food, and 4 bottles of booze.

She took her knapsack and the booze and took off for place(s) "unknown".

Am I the only person who a)has a problem with people who get behind the wheel of a car after drinking and b)people who drink "while" they drive.

This is not the behaviour of a responsible person, nor someone who is showing good judgement considering all of her past "achievements".

Then low and behold she further exhibits "irresponsible behaviour" by taking off.

BTW if she is not in the New England Area or watching particular TV shows, she might not be even aware of the "search" for her.

Also there is a six prong test at the Federal Supreme Court Level which supports the New Hampshire denial of Fred Murray's request for the release of info under the FOIA.

Unfortunately, he can send 1 million letters to the Governor, but he still won't get what he wants.

Federal Precedent especially by the Supreme Court will prevail. The Supreme Court is the top court of the USA.

The two main points that at least I can see "any information gathered of an investigative nature by Law Enforcment Agency." Also, the right to privacy.

Therefore two out of the six prong(tier) test will not make the threshold.

That is the basis for denial. Unfortunately, which I am sure is very frustrating for Fred Murray, he won't get this information.

The FBI has "investigated" the circumstances of Maura leaving school.

If there is no "factual and direct" evidence of foul play, they have already done their "investigation" and closed the case as no foul play was evident. She left voluntarly.

The New Hampshire Police have concluded same and their role has now ended. She had left voluntarly.

BTW the owners of the Condo said that the Condo would be fully booked months in advance for the ski season.

So why is there such a fuss that the police, (if they had legal access, a search warrant and probable cause) to obtain her last phone call, would even follow up on this.

She made a call subsequent to this anyways to a Vermont Tourist Line.

The Condo call would have no probative value.

Also she took out most of her money in her bank account. If I wanted to 'runaway" I would clean out my bank account and take out most of the money too.

If she had pawned her Jewellry, every pawn shop is required by law to obtain I.D. and report the list of items along with names and I.D. to the Police within 24 hours. Maura could have been traced this way.......and the "family" would be only 24 hours behind her.

Has her SSN been flagged and a letter sent to the SSN
Department, to determine if there has been any activity on the card.????.

Probably not, because Fred Murray is convinced that she is dead. If it is proven that there is activity on the SSN card, then there would be proof that she is alive and well and working. That is not the scene Fred Murray is putting forth.

Can she use another person's card, or are there pictures on the SSN cards.

The Patriot Act has to do with terrorist activity, or suspected activity so it is of no relevance.


The police had to determine that she made the call after an investigation.

Then the sister fessed up that the call was about a fight with her BF. Oh, why did she not volunteer this info in the first place.

The Police subsequently said that her supervisor noticed how upset she was and "offered" to let her off for the night. Maura did not ask.

After all there first impression when she went missing is that she was suicidal - you just don't assume when someone goes missing that they are suicidal unless you have "reasonable" thought for doing so.

Only if a person has exhibited through action or words "suicidal" thought or action would you come to this conclusion.

Oh yes and then the family denies this and calls the police a liar.

Also according to BF Mom, he did not enter her room to see if it was packed up till February 13, which is the Friday after Maura went missing. He said that he found no note. The Police said that they did.

So we are lead to believe that Maura's room was not searched for the 10, 11, 12, and then finally on the 13th.


Dan O'Brian - The Daily Collegian - January 26, 2005

Her son arrived at Maura's dorm room with police just two days after she went missing. He said there was no recent letters to him from Maura that were found.

In another statement he said that he was there with campus police, but not the police department and then it was February 13, 2004, not the 11th.

You see the Police have never, to my knowledge contradicted themselves.

The family has several times, so it makes one wonder.........
:cool:

[Peabody]

You see the Police have never, to my knowledge contradicted themselves.

The family has several times, so it makes one wonder.........
:cool:
Much gets misquoted and contradicted by the media.........I doubt that the media do it intentionally.

Maura's case is complicated and unless one follows it closely it can be confusing.

However, I do not find substantial contradictions by the Murray family.

I have found some discrepancies in news articles. There have been some statements that conflict about the number of days *after* Maura went missing that a certain happening occured.....but the family had been days without sleep, and were certainly under physical, mental and emotion stress. There are NO conflicts of any importance. Certainly, nothing that changes back and forth: also remember the media do all they can to sensationalize the news.

As to the Police never contradicting themselves, Lt. John Scarinza stated three times on The Chronicle, a television show out of Boston that Maura had left a letter to her boyfriend and implied it was a sucide note. His statement was printed in the Sept 9, 2004 issue of The Daily Collegian. This was a statement that Lt. Scarinza made repeatedly, yet the boyfriend and Fred Murray deny the existance of any such letter:

From The Daily Collegian http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/09/09/413fbf44caa40?in_archive=1
' Scarinza told WCVB-TV, "[She] left a personal note to her boyfriend on top of the boxes." '




Lt. John Scarinza authored a press release on June 8th, 2004. The entire press release is online at a Vermont State Police website regarding Brianna Maitland. Please note not only his contradiction, but also the difference in the actions of the Vermont State Police in Brianna's case and the actions of the New Hampshire State in Maura's case.

From The June 8th Scarinza Press Release
http://www.dps.state.vt.us/vtsp/press_04/press_060804_maitland.htm

"putting everything neatly in boxes and putting all the boxes on her bed along with a personal note she had recently received from her boyfriend."


A note *to* her boyfriend and a note *from* her boyfriend are certainly two different things. At this same press conference, 4 months after Maura went missing, Lt. Scarinza said for the FIRST time:

"Investigators are also aware of some additional stresses that were occurring in Maura’s life at the time of these events to include a difficult long distance relationship with her boyfriend in Oklahoma."


"a difficult" relationship between Maura and the boyfriend then became the new spin for Lt. Scarinza. This particular issue combined with the constant remarks about notes and implied suicide led Sharon Rausch to call the NH SP "liars" ......see the Caledonian archives in July.

I remain always an Advocate for Maura Murray.:angel:

[galfriday]

"The following is from a post by Faith on MauraMurray.com: "However, it has been confirmed that the time the police reported that Maura had an upsetting phone call - around 1 am that they reported as "Thursday night", which would have actually been Friday morning - was not the time that Maura spoke to her sister: Maura's phone records show that she spoke to her sister from about 10 PM to 10:20 Thursday night......there is no record of a 1 AM call on Maura's cell phone."

So, Maura spoke with her sister on her cell phone from 10-10:20pm; she most definately could have been at her job when she took that call and still been there at 1am when she was said to have been escorted back to her dorm after an upsetting phone call.

Since there was no call on the cell phone, I wonder if there was a phone at her job where she could have received an incoming call from someone she knew or even a stranger. Was someone on campus giving her a hard time or even stalking her? You have to wonder because what could scare a girl who refused to drive her car locally enough to embark on a 3 hour trip? Any thoughts?

[CyberLaw]

When Fred Murray says one thing to one paper and then another thing to another paper that is completly different, that is not misquoting, that is misinformation.

It is also just his side of the story, not Maura's or how she felt about the BF and family.

Remember there are always two sides to every story. If you listen to only one side, you are only getting half the story as that person sees it.

Especially if the person telling the story is leaving out information for their own reasons. The other person cannot refute this information because they are "missing".

You see the "story" the family has put forward and the actions that Maura did, tends to lead one to believe that the relationship they felt they had with her is not quite the truth, in reality. Maybe the way they see it. Not the actual way that Maura did.

From the beginning with the inital "distressing phone" call and the sister not volunteering this info. The sister's account of the call and the fact that Maura was distraught and the sister with held this phone call from investigators was "disconcerning".

Was it more than a "nothing" call that reduce Maura to the point of "having to helped back to her dorm room".? Again the story as told by the sister does not jive with the facts.

From this point, I had my doubt about the family spin on things and what information they were witholding from the Police.

Also the family has heavily played on the "story" that she had a "great relationship" with BF. I find that odd. Very odd. That was from the start.

That she was close to her BF, but when she talked to him she indicated nothing was wrong. This was while she was planning on leaving and packing, that does not indicate a good relationship to someone who stated in the press "Maura and I were engaged to be engaged".

But she feels she can't tell BF that she has packed up her room, e-mailed her professors and is leaving school and is unhappy and "stressed".

Actions do speak louder than words. When the actions do not follow the words, that is contradictory.

There is nothing complicated or confusing about this case what you see is what you get.

Voluntarly missing adult person, who with premedition and forethought left school for places unknown. I don't find that complicated or confusing. Not at all.

Lt. John Scarinza released the following synopsis of the Maura Murray Missing Person Investigation conducted by his department:

Synopsis: A sketchy summary of the main points of an argument or theory.

The theory of this Press Release is that:

Investigators believe that Maura was headed for an unknown destination and may have accepted a ride in order to continue to that location.

Therefore in this synopsis, the suicide theory was not put forth. That certainly does not mean there was no letter found by the Police, just that the letter does not fit this particilar "press release" synopsis.

Notice that the Press Release did not mention booze, that she stopped to buy 4 bottles, that both accidents involve drinking and one involved drinking and driving, that someone saw her sometime after the accident, the distressing phone call. Being reduced to tears by a "nothing call from her sister", sister with holding information regarding the origin of this "original" mysterious phone call that investigators had to determine came from her. That Maura kept secrets, was not really close to anyone in school. Those points are not relevant to the synopsis.

.Investigators are also aware of some additional stresses that were occurring in Maura’s life at the time of these events to include a difficult long distance relationship with her boyfriend in Oklahoma.

That would support the synopsis of "additional stresses", along with the car accidents, which one is mentioned causing 10K in damage to a new car. The point being made is that she had two accidents in three days. Wow that is stressful.......along with the long distance relationship.

So the "main points" of this argument was a): Sunday she had the first accident causing 10K in damage to a new car. b) Monday she packed "neatly" her personal things along with a "note "recently received from BF. Then she looked up "overnight " accomodations in the locations of New Hampshire and Vermont. Then she took out most of her money and e-mailed her professors that she would be absent from work and school due to a "death in the family" which is pointed out in the Press Release as a lie.

If the synopsis, main point was suicide they would include info with those point made. Obviously LE did not put forth that argument.

You can only make one point in a synopsis, not several.

So it is the format of a press release, synopsis, not all of the information, just the information that supports the main point of a theory. So it is not a contradiction.

IF you can't see the difference in the circumstances between Brianna and Maura and the release of info and the "synopsis" of each in the Press Release, I strongly suggest you get out a piece of paper and start with the following: The point of the press release is to point out the difference and also that they are not related and that no serial killer is on the loose.

Incident/Violation: Brianna Maitland
Missing Person Investigation
CASE #: 04A201455

You see Brianna did not plan on leaving voluntarly, and the people she associated with are involved with illegal activity, drugs and guns.

You wonder why the two cases are handled differently with different resources used. One is that probable cause is needed for a search warrant and the Police have that plus other court orders in the Brianna Maitland case and the other one is a missing adult who planned on leaving and made arrangements to do so.

I do hope the glaring difference is very evident to anyone who read the Press Release, to me it jumps out.

You see Maura is smart and self reliant so that is another reason why I feel she has the smarts to stay missing by choice if she wants to.

Another point in releasing this press release is to inform the public of the work done on both cases and dispel the "myth" that they are related in any way, shape or form .

I remember Fred Murray "hysteria" that the two girls were victims of the same killer. No wonder they had to release this information, he successful panicked the public with no basis in fact for doing so except that he wanted "more resources" available to look for a voluntarly missing person equal to the resources made available in the Brianna case.

Foul play is strongly suspected in the case of Brianna and not Maura. Facts support the case of foul play in the Brianna case, but not Maura. Except in the mind of Fred Murray.

Fred Murray should take a cue from the mother of Erika Baker. Even though Erika was a young child, disappeared suddenly, she never gave up hope against all odds that her daughter would walk in the door.

She has only recently started to mourn the loss of her daughter and accepted that she is not going to ever come home.

[Grassyknoll2]

"The following is from a post by Faith on MauraMurray.com: "However, it has been confirmed that the time the police reported that Maura had an upsetting phone call - around 1 am that they reported as "Thursday night", which would have actually been Friday morning - was not the time that Maura spoke to her sister: Maura's phone records show that she spoke to her sister from about 10 PM to 10:20 Thursday night......there is no record of a 1 AM call on Maura's cell phone."

So, Maura spoke with her sister on her cell phone from 10-10:20pm; she most definately could have been at her job when she took that call and still been there at 1am when she was said to have been escorted back to her dorm after an upsetting phone call.

Since there was no call on the cell phone, I wonder if there was a phone at her job where she could have received an incoming call from someone she knew or even a stranger. Was someone on campus giving her a hard time or even stalking her? You have to wonder because what could scare a girl who refused to drive her car locally enough to embark on a 3 hour trip? Any thoughts?
I've wondered that myself for a long time...even before I read that there was at least 2 1/2 hours between the recorded phone call and the reported time Maura was crying. I wonder how long her security shift was that night? It would appear that something upset her, but a phone call over 2 1/2 hours earlier...no way. I can't imagine that there would not have been a security phone, and hope that the police checked those phone records. I don't know exactly what her function was in that position, but campus security is often involved in breaking up parties and fights. Often the reports that security make can make a difference in whether and how a student is disciplined.

[hydemi]

Dear Grassy et al,

The drivability of Maura's car, the 96 black Saturn running on three cylinders or whatever, seems to me very much an issue both going into this weekend a year ago and what happened on 2/9/04.

Taking it backwards in the chronology--

1) she drove this supposedly undrivable car for over three hours and approx 150 miles up Rte 91 to exit 17 (presumably) near Wells River and over to 112 headed toward N. Woodstock and the White Mtns.

2) Sunday night when she was Mapquesting on her computer to Burlington Vt and Bartlett NH, she had to have known that the car was drivable--else how did she plan to travel the three to four hours to those locations?

3) Evidently she was drinking and driving not only in the car on Monday 2/9 but even more so on the Saturday night of 2/7/04 when she ran off the road going from her friend's dorm around 3am to visit her Dad at his hotel, crashing her Dad's new 2004 Toyota and incurring 10K est. damage.

She and her Dad had looked for a new car for her that Sat. afternoon, and whether they checked out the black Saturn for drivability is unknown.

Why would she engage in such heavy duty drinking and driving (of her Dad's new car) that Saturday night, knowing that her Dad was ready to help her replace the old car?

It is hard to imagine that her Dad was thrilled on learning of the crackup of his car the next morning. Was he still as willing to replace the old car?

4) on the night of 2/5/04 Maura knew going into the weekend that her Dad was coming to help her look for a new car. According to posts above her 96 Saturn had been towed by AAA back to the UMass lot more than two weeks earlier, and she had not even been willing to drive it to the local stores.

She was taking rides to clinicals (to the hospital, I guess) and able to walk to her two jobs from her dorm.

But it is likely that she might have gone at some point to check out the old car before her Dad's visit that weekend.

5) The rest is speculaton with only a few facts. Her phone records of 2/5/04 show she talked to her sister after 10pm, on her cellphone. From the accounts this was probably not the source of her being so upset later on that evening. It is reported in the news stories after her disappearance that she had an upsetting phone call as late as 1am-- according to co workers and perhaps the supervisor who is supposed to have walked her back to her dorm.

But one story only says that the supervisor urged her to take the night off, because she was so visibly upset, and offered to escort her to her dorm.

Escorting students late at night especially young women is common practice on college campuses for campus security, but we do not know (see the posts by Faith on mm.com of 12/9/04 and 1/12/05) whether this occurred.

Petrit Vasi was found unconscious at 12.20 am on Friday morning now 2/6/04, at the corner of Triangle and Mattoon streets (proximity?) by Amherst police. The story of his critical head injuries appeared in the student newspaper on 2/9/04, the day Maura left.

6) I cannot speculate whether Maura drove her car that night and was involved in the Vasi accident. But the timing is very coincidental. As stated above this has undoubtedly been considered and investigated by campus police & Amherst police.

But how could they investigate Maura (she was gone) and examine her car (wrecked in New Hampshire)?

At most they might have asked some questions of co-workers et al.

If she drove her car that night around midnight to check it out before her Father's upcoming visit, depending on the time of her shift at campus security, and if she somehow learned around 1am of the hit and run victim being ambulanced away to a hospital with serious injuries, it has to be considered that this was the upsetting event & phone call.

I truly hope that it was not the case, and that she was not drinking/driving as she was over the next few days.

But somehow her old car was drivable on Monday 2/9/04 and she knew as she planned her leaving from UMass that it was drivable. She had to have driven it and checked it out between the time AAA towed it and Monday 2/9.

Could that Thursday night of 2/5/04 have been the night she did so, the same
night that Vasi was struck, which is possible given the specific times above from midnight (Vasi struck) to 12.20am (Vasi found) to 1am (Maura upset)?

[galfriday]

Hydemi,

You have worked hard to construct a good timeline on this hit and run in relation to Maura's case. I agree that, due to the 10PM to 1AM time lapse, it doesn't seem that the sister's call was the reason for Maura being upset.

It is very coincidental that the hit and run was on the same night Maura left work upset, however, the timeline seems pretty tight for her to have been involved. I guess the key to that answer would be her work schedule - what time she arrived at work. Does anyone know that answer? I can't seem to locate any information that indicates her actual time in-time out of work that evening.

Maura's car was not totally destroyed, so, if they felt it necessary, the Amherst Police would have been able to view Maura's car as part of their investigation either by going to NH or having NH investigate the car on Amherst's behalf.

One thing I just don't think we can speculate on is the fact that she was drinking on 2/9/04. Purchasing alcohol and driving with it in the car just isn't evidence of consumption.

[Grassyknoll2]

Feb. 5 Thursday

10:00 PM phone call to sister
10:20 PM phone call to sister ends
(this is reportedly the last call on Maura's cell that night)
Feb 7 Friday
12:20 AM student hit or thrown out of a car - still undetermined
1:00 AM Maura Murray crying and walked back to dorm

The suggestion above is that prior to 12:20 AM, Friday, Feb.6th Maura left her security job walked to wherever her car was on camus (which could have been quite a distance depending on where she was working) hit somebody off campus (although the streets above are not the ones mentioned in other articles...I believe one was Maple, they are off campus), returned to campus, parked her car and started crying........all within approximately 40 minutes.

First, according to reports in the Daily Collegian in October, it has never been proven that this student was even hit by a car. Initial reports indicated that the police thought he was hit by a car or beaten. Eight months later the police had yet to determine whether he had been hit or pushed out of a car. I can't remember ever reading another article where police say someone may have been pushed from a moving vehicle. Since this appears to have taken place off campus, it would seem that both the Amherst PD and Campus Police would have been involved in the investigation, and it would seem plausible that the Campus police would have made a tour of the campus looking for damage to vehicles consistant with a hit and run. Given the circumstances, if members of this community have all these suspicions, wouldn't the Amherst PD have come to the same conclusion within a year and requested that Maura's car be examined????????? Even a second accident would probably not have eliminated all evidence of a hit and run. People here have implied that the accident in NH was staged to 'cover up' the alleged hit and run. I don't know about you, but I surely would have chosen a less remote area to total my car if I were trying to cover something up.

Second, wouldn't Maura's absence for a lengthy period of time from the security job been noticed and reported to someone by now. The way I read the post above the family had not been able to verify the story about Maura crying and being escorted back to her dorm. It does not say that it didn't happen.

The student who was injured states that he was drinking on Thursday night. He reports that his wallet was empty when he was found. It isn't clear whether he means it was empty of money or money and identification. His statement that he never carried much money anyway would seem to imply that he thought he had some and it was gone. He states that he believes his injuries were consistant with being hit, and yet the police do not appear to have come to any conclusion about that. I can't help but think that since this student was very seriously injured that a thorough investigation wasn't done. If there were any way Maura might have been implicated it would have supported NH LE's contention that she ran away or committed suicide...I'm sure they looked at this incident closely, and remember Amherst is the one place where the FBI was involved in looking at Maura's case.

It seems a real stretch to try to implicate Maura Murray in this incident, and I never understood why someone who claims to have known the family would repeatedly bring it up on Websleuths. It just doesn't seem possible that with Campus police, Amherst Police, Haverhill Police, New Hampshire State Police and the FBI (they only talked to people in MA) all talking to people on campus that one of these agencies wouldn't have looked at this.

[CyberLaw]

I was under the impression that she called not from her cell, but from the campus security phone and was "extremely distraught" right after the conclusion of the 1:00 a.m. phone call.

Where could Maura be?
By Brian McGrory, Globe Columnist,
3/2/2004

Investigators have determined the origin of an unusual
telephone call that Murray received a few nights before
she fled the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. The
conversation upset her so much that she had to be
escorted from her job to her dorm room

The call, according to UMass police Lieutenant Robert
Thrasher, came from one of Murray's two sisters. But
Thrasher said police have yet to receive an explanation of
what was so upsetting.


Why would there be a three hour gap and then she became distraught hours after a call if she did talk to her sister as you claim on her cell at 10:00 p.m.

UMASS Police determined the call was from/to sister.

Remember the Police had no legal access to Maura's cell phone records to determine this.

BF Mom's would not have the record or bill yet, they are at least a month behind and the Police could not obtain cell phone records from the company as it would need a search warrant and a Judges Order which both require probable cause.

Probable cause as to a crime committed.

I do recall that UMASS was tracing the origins of the call.

The Sister did not indicate in the early days, that this call was/to from her and then low and behold when faced with this evidence it then became a "nothing call" that was of no consequence.

She did not volunteer this information, or even indicate to the Police in the early days, that she had even talked to Maura on 2/5.

You would think that she would have said: I spoke to her around 10:00, she was calling from her cell and she seemed fine. Nothing. Nada. Kept quiet.

The UMASS Police could determine the origins of any call that night through their own UMASS records.

The only way UMASS police can obtain information as to when this call happened is if it went through/from the phone at the security desk.

The "nothing" phone converation at 1:00 a.m. is the phone call that brought her to tears and left her " distraught."

The Daily Colllegian - September 9, 2004

It was just a regular phone call. It made no difference to me. It was just Maura calling me, that was that. I told her about my day and quarreling with my fianc饬" Murray said. "I don't know what I could have done to upset her...
Seriously, I think she just wanted to get out of work."
New Hampshire State Police Lt. John Scarinza is one of the lead investigators on the Murray case. He disputes Kathleen Murray's statement about her sister trying to leave work early.

"It wasn't a case where she called the supervisor and said, 'Listen, I've had a bad phone call...' The supervisor on her own initiative said, 'Why don't you take the rest of the night off? I'll walk you to your dorm.' So clearly she was upset," Scarinza told WCVB-TV.

http://www.housing.umass.edu/living/safe_build.html

That link will give you all of the information. I don't know if Maura was part of the Residence Security or answering the phone number for security for non-emergencies. All instances of anything would be recorded in log books.

But I can tell you this, students are not expected to act as "bouncers" or "break up parties or fights".

Especially a female (http://www.adsrve.com/linkredirect.php?h=30,47539238,websleuths.com,1) student. The University Police would do that, so it was strictly a non-emergency role or student residence role.

Maura was in the Southwest(North) Residence Hall - Kennedy Hall.

[Grassyknoll2]

But I can tell you this, students are not expected to act as "bouncers" or "break up parties or fights".

Especially a female student. The University Police would do that, so it was strictly a non-emergency role or student residence role.

I beg to differ, I personally know of one young woman who was hit attempting to get a student who had gotten drunk and rowdy to go back to his room. She was an RA in the building. I stated that I didn't know what Maura's function was, but any of the security employees of the University would be in a position where they might have to deal with students who were not abiding by the rules.

It doesn't matter whether the Haverhill Police had legal access to Maura's cell phone records, they received a copy of it as soon as Bill Rausch received it.

As to the security phone or Maura's room phone...there has been nothing published which would indicate whether or not they were checked by the police. And, I believe it was the state police who discussed the phone call...not the campus police.


We must be reading very different articles or you have sources of information that I don't. I've read articles from the obvious media to the obscure media, including a weekly called the North Country News and do not recall reading anything that stated that anybody checked anything having to do with a security phone. To repeat...the call to her sister was on her cell phone it lasted from 10:00 to 10:20...there were no other calls on her cell phone that night. And your question: Why would there be a three hour gap and then she became distraught hours after a call if she did talk to her sister as you claim on her cell at 10:00 p.m. ...echos my question.

Why would there be a three hour gap and then she became distraught hours after a call if she did talk to her sister on her cell at 10:00 p.m.

We agree on one thing anyway..........

Just went to the site you recommended at UMASS...

Residence and Assistant Residence Directors

Professional Residence Directors (RDs) and graduate student Assistant Residence Directors (ARDs) are responsible for the management, programming, and discipline of specific residence halls or small hall clusters and are available to help resolve academic or social concerns and provide referrals to other campus agencies as needed.

Area Directors

Area Directors (ADs) oversee RDs as well as the overall operation of an entire residential area, coordinating educational, social, and cultural programs, the judicial process, and collaborating with area student governments.


Alcoholic Beverages Regulations

The following regulations have been adopted by the Department of Housing Services. (See also the University Alcoholic Beverages Policy (http://www.umass.edu/dean_students/rights/alcohol_pol.htm#ALCOHOL) in the Undergraduate Rights & Responsibilities.)

Any member of the University of Massachusetts Amherst community may charge a student with alleged violation of this policy under the disciplinary provisions of the Code of Student Conduct.

[gatetrekker44]

CyberLaw seems to be an absolute whiz at it! This forum has gone from trying to come up with possible scenarios related to Maura's disappearance to insinuating that she may have been involved in a "hit and run" that has NEVER been proven to be a hit and run at all(been drinking, money gone from wallet, injuries consistent with a beating, HMMMM). Unless CyberLaw has firsthand knowledge that conclusively proves that this was a hit and run committed by Maura, can we PLEASE get back to trying to ascertain what happened the night of her disappearance since we know that LE is SSOOOO sure that she has "voluntarily" gone missing(was that their crystal ball reader or their tea leaves telling them that!) it seems that beside her family the majority of us posting here are the only ones who see a much darker scenario that unfolded on that road... :banghead:

[CyberLaw]

Grassyknoll:

You might have missed this, but the positions that you mention are all graduate student position with details as follows:

Please note:

Residence Director:

The Residence Director (RD) is a 43 week or 52 week live-in professional responsible for the overall administration of a cluster comprising one or more halls housing 275-675 students. The Residence Director supervises graduate and undergraduate students to create a safe, caring and inclusive community through strong supervision, student development, leadership development, administration and departmental responsibilities. These responsibilities are negotiated within the senior staff team comprising of the RD and the Assistant Residence Director (ARD). The Residence Director is supervised by an Area Director.
Qualifications

Master's degree in a related field such as Student Development, Higher Education or Counseling, plus one year post-baccalaureate experience required as a live-in staff member to include crisis intervention and work with diverse student populations (degree must be completed by date of hire); demonstrated experience and initiative with student and community development; supervision and staff training; advising student groups; creation and implementation of management systems.

Assistant Residence Director:

Assistant Residence Directors (ARDs) are live-in graduate student staff members working in the Department of Housing Services: Residence Life. The ARD serves as an active and visible residence hall staff member and participates in student development, community development, leadership development, activity development, administration, policy enforcement, crisis management, and staff development. All ARDs are expected to participate in comprehensive pre-service orientation programs, as well as in ongoing in-service training

Both these position report to the Area Director.

So the information that you listed in the above noted
positions is irrelevant as Maura was a Junior.

Please note the following:

Police officers from the Division of Public Safety patrol the campus 24 hours a day. Residence halls are locked at all times.

During the evening hours, security receptionists staff the main door of each residence hall to regulate access into the buildings, check the identification of residents and guests, and conduct guest registration. Other residence hall security staff patrol the residential areas looking for safety hazards such as doors propped open and lighting problems.

Maura was a full time Junior in the nursing program, and she had a part time job on Campus. A student who is not a graduate student, who is not employed full time by the University, does not directly deal with problem student.

That is left to full time qualified graduate staff with the correct qualification and experience.

You see students are equal and have no authority over one another when it comes to policy enforecement. They would need the guidence of paid graduate and staff members.

Please note:

To provide for the responsible use of alcoholic beverages by students, staff, and guests of the residence hall community, the Director of Housing Services or her/his designee is authorized to establish rules, regulations, and procedures governing residence halls alcohol use.

Informs all students and staff of appropriate alcohol-related rules and regulations

Provides for disciplinary procedures that ensure that policy violators are prosecuted.
Makes provisions for the responsible consumption of alcohol.
Also:
The adjudication of policy violations includes, but is not limited to, mediation, informal or formal hearing procedures, and initiation of civil and criminal proceedings.

These policy violations are ajudicated by a person in authority. Not students.

Please note also:

From the Boston Globe - 3/2/2004

http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2004/03/02/where_could_maura_be/

Investigators have determined the origin of an unusual telephone call that Murray received a few nights before she fled the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. The conversation upset her so much that she had to be escorted from her job to her dorm room.

The call, according to UMass police Lieutenant Robert Thrasher, came from one of Murray's two sisters. But Thrasher said police have yet to receive an explanation of what was so upsetting.

The Boston Globe is a major newspaper not a country family owned newspaper .But the North Country News, is a very cute country newspaper that is published bi-weekly according to its website.

It is a cute country newspaper, really it is. It is a small town newspaper. The Boston Globe is published daily in Boston and is owned by the New York Times Company.

[pugsley]

Regarding the police finding the origin of the phone call, are they refering to the 10 pm or 1 am phone call. From reading above it sounds like they are speaking of the 10 pm call. The sister speaks as if the last time she talked to her was 10 pm.

Thanks

[Grassyknoll2]

Regarding the police finding the origin of the phone call, are they refering to the 10 pm or 1 am phone call. From reading above it sounds like they are speaking of the 10 pm call. The sister speaks as if the last time she talked to her was 10 pm.

Thanks
From what I have seen in print, there was only one phone call mentioned. It was at 10:00 p.m. Thursday, and lasted until 10:20 p.m. It was on Maura's cell phone (unclear whether she made the call or received the call). At that time Maura spoke to her sister. Although she was crying at 1:00 a.m on Friday, I have not found any mention of a phone call at that time. A person who writes on Maura's site (who seems to be a friend of the family) has indicated that that is the only call the family knows about and that person also appears to question the time difference between the call and the crying.

[pugsley]

Thanks Grassyknoll,

There seems to be more questions than answers. I'm starting to wonder if there was even an actual phone call. Perhaps someone found Maura upset and she stated she got an upsetting phone call. Could the 1am "phone call" have been to back up or pre- empt the claim of a relative passing away.


I will probably get shredded for saying that, but that's my take on it.

[CyberLaw]

For quite sometime she knew that UMASS and Police were attempting to discover the origins of the "distressing call."

She did not even offer this little tid bit of information when Maura went missing: Yes, I talked to Maura at 10:00 p.m. and she seemed fine to me, it was just a "nothing" converstion.

They had to "confront" her with the information that they had gathered.

She knew they were investigating a call that night which lead to Maura being extremely "distraught", but again she said nothing. Not even any mention of a call at all..

UMASS and Investigators had to find out it was her and then further investigate the details of the "conversation".

From the Patriot Ledger: 03/03/2004

Police investigating the disappearance of Hanson native Maura Murray have discovered that the disturbing phone conversation Murray had four days before leaving the University of Massachusetts at Amherst was with her sister.
According to her family, Murray called her sister, Kathleen Murray of Hanover, at about 10 p.m. Feb. 5, four days before she packed her belongings and headed north to New Hampshire.

But what was said should not have upset the 21-year-old, Kathleen Murray said.

‘‘We didn't really talk about much. I had been fighting with my fiancé, and we talked about that, but I don't know why she would be upset about that,'' Kathleen said.

Kathleen Murray said she talked to her sister regularly to chat. Like all of their phone conversations, the one on Feb. 5 was about ‘‘regular stuff, ‘just-trying-to-get-through-the-day' kinds of things,'' she said.

‘‘When I heard she was crying after that, I couldn't understand why, especially because it's not like her to cry,'' she said.

I don't know where Grassyknoll came up with the 1:00 a.m. situation.

From all reports it was the 10:00 p.m. call that Maura became distraught over.

She could have easily called Campus Police to "escort" Maura, but the Supervisor was concerned and "worried" for her "emotional well being."

Again, you don't get a phone call at 10:00 p.m. and then wait over three hours to become "extremely distraught." It happens at the time of the call, so I have to question the 1:00 a.m. timeline.

At this time, Maura made no mention of " a family members" death. She had not planned on leaving yet.

Only when she had to cover her absence/leaving from school did she come up with a "cover story".

I am sure that Kathleen does not want to feel that she had anything to do with Maura missing, therefore it was just a "nothing call" and it must be someone or something else that was to blame. But why did she initially with hold this information.

Only Kathleen knows the truth and she is sticking to her story. The only other person who knows the truth is Maura.

Maura went to a party Saturday night, it would be difficult to "explain" this behaviour if you had previously said a family member had died.

You would not wait three day to leave, especially over the weekend, and having dinner with your Dad.

So the phone call was not a "cover" story, I do feel the sister should "fess" up to what they really talked about and what she said to Maura that was the source of "distress".

Grassyknoll: Please reference your sources as to the information you post.

This newspaper article appeared on February 10, 2005.

http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2005/02/10/news/news02.txt

[Peabody]

Thanks Grassyknoll,

There seems to be more questions than answers. I'm starting to wonder if there was even an actual phone call. Perhaps someone found Maura upset and she stated she got an upsetting phone call. Could the 1am "phone call" have been to back up or pre- empt the claim of a relative passing away.


I will probably get shredded for saying that, but that's my take on it.I have stated before that I have a connection to the family.

The sister denied that there was any call at 1:00 AM - She still says there was never any such call. From the evidence that has been presented to me, I believe her.

she was extremely distraught over Maura's missing - she told the police over and over "I have never talked to Maura at 1:00 AM." She told the police that she and Maura talked often....just never at 1:00 AM. The police were not interested in any other conversation - The sister was distraught over her sister's missing.

How do you know that the sister did not say that she spoke with her sister on Thursday? I know that she told the police that she spoke to her sisiter regularly and that she had not talked to Maura when she was upset..........I also know that the police were only interested in a 1:00 AM call which to my knowledge has never been proven.

In fact, the cell phone bill confirms that there was no conversation at 1:00 AM on the cell phone.

As to a call on the security phone, Maura would have had to call someone and give them the number for them to call her.........she was prohibited from taking personal calls on the security phone, which puts us back to the mystery of why she was so emotional at 1:00 AM.....


It certainly seems plausible to me that the police ruled a 1:00 AM phone call between Maura and her sister based on some interview at UMass, but did not base the call on phone records, then once they could not confirm a 1:00 AM call they never reported to the public that there was never any such call. After all, they have never released information that the bus driver has been cleared of any suspicision, yet those in the family have been told by the police that he has been cleared..........

There has been much the public should know and it has been withheld and or had the Scarinza spin added to the point of outright deception.

In recent interviews of the one year mark of Maura's missing, the bus driver blames Fred Murray that there is a cloud of suspicion over his head -- his blame is misplaced - the police told the Murray family that they have cleared him - therefore the blame for suspicion lies at their door. Police could easily annouce "Butch Atwood has been cleared of any involvement in the missing of Maura Murray"....just like many other corrections they could have made to give the public a better understanding of the facts, they have not taken action.

[hydemi]

Does anyone actually know when MM arrived at her campus security job the evening of Feb 5?

What were her regular hours? midnite to 4am? 10pm-2am?

As to her being upset around 1am while at her campus security job, it seems clear from the posts above that any call was most likely one that she had first initiated or given the security number to someone to call her.

She could have been anywhere during the cellphone call with her sister which it is clear occurred after 10pm. But the 1am call is the on-the-job call.

[CyberLaw]

[QUOTE=gatetrekker44]CyberLaw seems to be an absolute whiz at it! This forum has gone from trying to come up with possible scenarios related to Maura's disappearance to insinuating that she may have been involved in a "hit and run" that has NEVER been proven to be a hit and run at all(been drinking, money gone from wallet, injuries consistent with a beating, HMMMM).Unless CyberLaw has firsthand knowledge that conclusively proves that this was a hit and run committed.

Can you please point out from my posts below where I EVER stated or suggested any evidence supporting the "myth" that Maura was involved in the student hit and run. I see the posts from Timex, and Hydemi, but none from me, so please do share........and please Quote my post.

From the Previous thread I clearly dispelled that "myth" through fact and logic.

Thank you for the compliment, it is the first time someone has called me a "whiz" usually I get " smart", "intelligent" so I guess "whiz" is similar. My "typical" response is "really I am not that smart" it just seems that way.

Can anyone please provide anything that is in print that even mentions that Maura was crying at 1:00 a.m.

Or anything that even alludes to a 1:00 p.m. call or that Maura was upset at 1:00 a.m. I would like to verify this information.

I am not talking about someone, who knows the family writing about it, I am talking about a unbiased informative newspaper article or information published by "LE or Investigators."

For the last year, I have yet to read anything about a 1:00 a.m. call.

Could this person be posting this information to try and "mislead" people that is WAS NOT the 10:00 pm call got Maura upset, but some other mysterious call at 1:00 a.m.

The Daily Colllegian - September 9, 2004

It was just a regular phone call. It made no difference to me. It was just Maura calling me, that was that. I told her about my day and quarreling with my fiance Murray said. "I don't know what I could have done to upset her..".

"Seriously, I think she just wanted to get out of work"

New Hampshire State Police Lt. John Scarinza is one of the lead investigators on the Murray case. He disputes Kathleen Murray's statement about her sister trying to leave work early.

"It wasn't a case where she called the supervisor and said, 'Listen, I've had a bad phone call...' The supervisor on her own initiative said, 'Why don't you take the rest of the night off? I'll walk you to your dorm.' So clearly she was upset" Scarinza told WCVB-TV.

From the Patriot Ledger: 03/03/2004

Police investigating the disappearance of Hanson native Maura Murray have discovered that the disturbing phone conversation Murray had four days before leaving the University of Massachusetts at Amherst was with her sister.

According to her family, Murray called her sister, Kathleen Murray of Hanover, at about 10 p.m. Feb. 5, four days before she packed her belongings and headed north to New Hampshire.

But what was said should not have upset the 21-year-old, Kathleen Murray said.

‘‘We didn't really talk about much. I had been fighting with my fiancé, and we talked about that, but I don't know why she would be upset about that,'' Kathleen said.

Kathleen Murray said she talked to her sister regularly to chat. Like all of their phone conversations, the one on Feb. 5 was about ‘‘regular stuff, ‘just-trying-to-get-through-the-day' kinds of things,'' she said.

‘‘When I heard she was crying after that, I couldn't understand why, especially because it's not like her to cry,'' she said.

Source: http://www.google.com/u/umassamherstonline?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=REsidence+Hall+Security

You see I went to the Web site of UMASS and it states:

Residence Hall Security personnel, staff the lobbies from 8:00 PM to 12:00 AM on weekdays and from 8:00 PM to 3:00 AM on weekends. ...

So can someone please tell me how Maura was at a Residence Hall (Reception) Security desk at 1:00 a.m. to receive this "mysterious phone call."

It would make sense that she started work at 8:00 p.m., called her sister at 10:00 p.m. was upset at 10:20, then The supervisor on her own initiative said, 'Why don't you take the rest of the night off?.

So she did leave early at 10:20 taking the rest of the night off instead of completing her shift and leaving at 12:00.

The job pays 7.25 cents an hour.

The only student security positions are Residence Hall Security.

[Grassyknoll2]

Cyberlaw 2/10 - You would think that she would have said: I spoke to her around 10:00, she was calling from her cell and she seemed fine. Nothing. Nada. Kept quiet.

Where you at the police station? Do you know that Kathleen did not tell them she spoke with Maura at 10:00? Without having been there or having first hand reports, this would seem to be an unsupportable speculation. From what I can determine the call was at 10:00 and Maura was upset at 1:00. It would seem to me that if I spoke with someone at 10:00 and police were asking me about a call at 1:00, I would be as confused as I have been with the posts here.



Cyberlaw 2/10 - The "nothing" phone converation at 1:00 a.m. is the phone call that brought her to tears and left her " distraught."

Cyberlaw 2/10 - Why would there be a three hour gap and then she became distraught hours after a call if she did talk to her sister as you claim on her cell at 10:00 p.m.

Cyberlaw 2/11 - I don't know where Grassyknoll came up with the 1:00 a.m. situation.

From all reports it was the 10:00 p.m. call that Maura became distraught over.

Cyberlaw 2/11 - Again, you don't get a phone call at 10:00 p.m. and then wait over three hours to become "extremely distraught." It happens at the time of the call, so I have to question the 1:00 a.m. timeline.

[Grassyknoll2]

Cyberlaw - 2/9 - Lt. John Scarinza released the following synopsis of the Maura Murray Missing Person Investigation conducted by his department:

Synopsis: A sketchy summary of the main points of an argument or theory.

Please clarify is this Lt. Scarinza's synopsis or your synopsis?

If my memory serves me correctly (and I will look for some articles) Brianna Maitland's family was very upset because they were treating her case as a runaway, and yet if one reads the above-mentioned report on both Brianna and Maura, there is a stark difference in the level of investigation.

[silver]

Cyberlaw,

On your 2-8-2005 post you state:

She received the call at her campus security desk, not on a cell or otherwise.



On your 2-10-2005 post you state:

I was under the impression that she called not from her cell, but from the campus security phone and was "extremely distraught" right after the conclusion of the 1:00 a.m. phone call.


Which is it? On the 8th you state a fact yet on the 10th you are only under the impression. I am eager to find out how you know this information.

[LillyRush]

Oh I see the debate is still going strong w/ our buddy cyberlaw. :snooty:

Well, regardless, positive thoughts for Maura and her family during the recent 1 yr anniversary of her disappearance. :(

[Grassyknoll2]

Caledonian Record 6/16/04
The passing of seven days has resulted in a huge turnaround in the way Vermont State Police are treating the disappearance of Brianna Maitland.

……….

VSP had originally said Maitland was a runaway and had run away in the past. During a press conference June 8, they said they were tired of wasting time tracking down worthless leads.

They said Maitland had made some bad life choices which may have led to her disappearance.

[watchingeye]

It seems to me that this family may have it's problems but that Maura also has strong ties to her family. I know enough to say that there has been divorce, alcohol, drugs, denial of problems, and so on. (I am talking family wide-not just Maura and what family doesn't have issues like those these days?) I also wonder at times if everyone is being forthcoming only because they don't want to be smeared about something that may have nothing to do with Maura. (Like admitting adictions, problems and so on) I just think family members need to sit down with police again and tell all in hopes of stumbling onto a new clue. I also know that Maura was realitivly grounded and had goals and a need to achieve them. This is what kept her going. Her aunts, uncles, grandparents etc. were so important to Maura. It is hard to believe she would have just left them aside from problems that others in her family may have had. I do wonder about her relationship with her mother but if you notice, she was/is probably much closer to her father. All of those relationships, if studied more carefully maybe could lead to answers, I believe.

[CyberLaw]

I made the mistake of "basing my argument" on the "phantom" 1:00 a.m. timeline."

That was unsubstantiated "information" posted by Grassyknoll. I made the mistake of "assuming" that this was a fact.

That was before I did some futher "inquiry" on my own and found out that this is impossible.

Please anyone, provide me with a LE statement or newspaper article that supports the 1:00 a.m. timeline and that Maura was upset at the security desk at that time.

Her full shift was from 8:00 - 12:00.

Maura talked to her sister from 10:00 - 10:20.

So now we have Maura hanging up from her sister. She is "very distraught". Her Supervior notices how upset she is and lets her off early and walks her back to her dorm room. Maura and her Supervisor walk back to the dorm. She did not finish her shift which would have ended at 12:00. If there is anything about that you don't understand, please ask.

Even if she did finish her full shift, she would not have been at the Security desk at 1:00 a.m.

So I ask again, where did the 1:00 a.m. timeline come from.?????????

Granted someone might have seen her at 1:00 and told investigators that Maura was upset, but it was not at the Security desk. Who knows if this was in additon to the "distraught call from 10:00, the lingering and additional result of it or from another additional stressor in addition to the call from 10:00.

I am confused as to why ANYONE is even considering anything to do with 1:00 a.m.

I should have discounted any information that is not supported by fact. I see no factual information regarding any "phantom" call at 1:00.

Especially when Maura was not even at the Security desk at that time and was not even working.

From the post regarding ARD and RD and my reply regarding ARD and RD, I should have known better.

Upon further investigation, UMASS Police can determine if any incoming calls came in through the desk. After all this would be the logical place to start. They can ask the Supervisor "what time was Maura upset and what time did you two leave".

UMASS could determine from that timeline of any and all incoming calls, trace and investigate same. From my experience outgoing calls would not be possible from a Security desk.

Security does not want a student to tie up a line by chatting and making outgoing calls when other "tuition" paying students may need security help.

Incoming calls would be rather brief, usually logged and with the proper escalation warranted if necessary.

There would be a two way radio to the roving campus police.

LE did determine that the call that upset Maura to the "point of breaking down and crying and becoming distraught" was from her sister.

Silver:
You see I was not "privy' to any information regarding the cell phone call at 10:00 p.m. on 2/8, not until 2/10 did Grassyknoll post the call was from cell phone.

Since Maura was working at the security desk, without any information to the contrary I assumed correctly, that it was at the security desk. I am still not comfortable that it was a cell phone call(I have not seen any verification of that)but regardless, she talked to her sister and was upset. It is irrelevant if it was on a landline or cell, if she called her sister or if her sister called her.

When the Police received the Cell Phone records that is when they made the determination that the timeline of the call to/from Maura to Kathleen fit the timline of "Maura becoming upset."

They found out prior to this that Maura talked to one of her two sisters that night.

Maura must have mentioned that she talked to "her sister" when prompted about who she had talked to that made her so distraught and upset.

Julie is in the Service, so it would make sense that people in the service can't just chat to family anytime they want or make or receive calls anytime of the day or night.

Cyberlaw - 2/9 - Lt. John Scarinza released the following synopsis of the Maura Murray Missing Person Investigation conducted by his department:

Synopsis: A sketchy summary of the main points of an argument or theory.

Please clarify is this Lt. Scarinza's synopsis or your synopsis?

Are we back to that again, please follow the link and you will plainly see that it is the synopsis of Lt. Scarinza's of the N.H. Police. Please note Grassyknoll what Country I live in. Enough said.

Gatetrekker, please note the Country also. I will not entertain any more inquiries if I have any connection or had any connection to LE in any way, shape or form in North America. I did not and I do not. Please........


If my memory serves me correctly (and I will look for some articles) Brianna Maitland's family was very upset because they were treating her case as a runaway, and yet if one reads the above-mentioned report on both Brianna and Maura, there is a stark difference in the level of investigation.

You are correct. But the circumstances in the two cases is like night and day. Take out a piece of paper and make two columns and do your own work and lists the facts. Upon further investigation, LE determined that Brianna "hung out with a druggie crowd, illegal drugs, assultive parties, crack, guns, etc.

As you can see they have enough evidence to obtain search warrants and sopoenas. Again the one difference is that Brianna did not make plans to leave and had "undesirable friends who do not abide by the law".

She was assulted at a party the week before she went missing. Unfortunately, the outcome for Brianna in my opinion is "very grave". Brianna was a child also, 17 years old.

I do hope, by the Grace of God I am wrong about Brianna, but unfortunately I don't think so and neither does LE.

I really feel for her parents big time.

But did you see from the Press Release from the VSP that Brianna has an incident/violation and case number. Can you also see that LE has obtained "criminal" search warrants. Hello.......this is a criminal case with "probable" cause to obtain search warrants."

Not so with Maura nothing so far criminal about it. No crime in "planning, with premediation and forethought to "runaway" and then do so, especially as an adult. Maura is 21 years old. Nothing criminal about it.

it is the same as giving someone with a sprained ankle the same medical attention as someone who is having a heart attack.

The person with the sprained ankle wants and demands the same attention as the heart attack patient. Like apples and oranges.

The Bus driver was ruled out as a "suspect" a long time ago. Long time ago. Remember Maura was seen running away from the scene 4-5 miles away and hour later.

He was never considered a "suspect" because my question would be a suspect in what. The bus driver did not cause Maura to go missing and was seen with her by other people in the area prior to him calling the Police. These people saw it was Butch and knew that Maura was in good hands.

Fred Murray still to this day can't let it go that the bus driver had "something to do" with his daughter going missing.

If I was the bus driver, i would have called a lawyer a long time ago and the defendent in my civil suit would not have been LE.

He knew she lied and was proactive in obtaining help for her after the accident, even through she refused. I would have done the same. Fred Murray owes this guy a HUGE appology. Publicly in print.

it is very telling that Maura left her personal possessions in the car, but she took the alcohol with her and was driving while she was drinking.

Huge red flags regarding the stresses she felt and the way that she was attempting to cope with those stresses.

I do wish that Maura took advantage of the "confidential" counselling services at school.

That could have made a big difference in her life instead of feeling that she could not confide in anyone and had to be "very private and secret" as to what was happening in her life.


Especially when the facts are material, to the circumstances of a person going missing and may lend knowledge into the "family" dynamics.

[kholloway]

All I can say to the post by Cyberlaw is: How could you?

This family is experiencing something that unless you have been there, you have no idea the devasting effect that it has on your life. Fred Murrey has the right to question the honesty and integrity of anyone he chooses! Especially the last people to have seen his daughter. For Goodness sake, his child has vanished into thin air! A family goes through enough without having blame and ridicule placed upon them for what they could of done differently in their family lives to prevent this tragedy! I hope that Maura's family does not even read this. They just do not need it. I do not know them personally at all, but my child is missing and I know first hand how all consuming this is on your life. Can you even imagine living everyday with the mystery of what happened to your precious child? There are no words to describe it. When LE and the community do not get behind you and support you, it only makes it more unbearable.

These are just my opinions from personal experience.

[kholloway]

Voluntarly missing adult person, who with premedition and forethought left school for places unknown. I don't find that complicated or confusing. Not at all.

Lt. John Scarinza released the following synopsis of the Maura Murray Missing Person Investigation conducted by his department:

Synopsis: A sketchy summary of the main points of an argument or theory.

The theory of this Press Release is that:

Investigators believe that Maura was headed for an unknown destination and may have accepted a ride in order to continue to that location.

Therefore in this synopsis, the suicide theory was not put forth. That certainly does not mean there was no letter found by the Police, just that the letter does not fit this particilar "press release" synopsis.

Notice that the Press Release did not mention booze, that she stopped to buy 4 bottles, that both accidents involve drinking and one involved drinking and driving, that someone saw her sometime after the accident, the distressing phone call.
.Investigators are also aware of some additional stresses that were occurring in Maura’s life at the time of these events to include a difficult long distance relationship with her boyfriend in Oklahoma.

That would support the synopsis of "additional stresses", along with the car accidents, which one is mentioned causing 10K in damage to a new car. The point being made is that she had two accidents in three days. Wow that is stressful.......along with the long distance relationship.

So the "main points" of this argument was a): Sunday she had the first accident causing 10K in damage to a new car. b) Monday she packed "neatly" her personal things along with a "note "recently received from BF. Then she looked up "overnight " accomodations in the locations of New Hampshire and Vermont. Then she took out most of her money and e-mailed her professors that she would be absent from work and school due to a "death in the family" which is pointed out in the Press Release as a lie.


You can only make one point in a synopsis, not several.

So it is the format of a press release, synopsis, not all of the information, just the information that supports the main point of a theory. So it is not a contradiction.

IF you can't see the difference in the circumstances between Brianna and Maura and the release of info and the "synopsis" of each in the Press Release, I strongly suggest you get out a piece of paper and start with the following: The point of the press release is to point out the difference and also that they are not related and that no serial killer is on the loose.

Incident/Violation: Brianna Maitland
Missing Person Investigation
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]CASE #: 04A201455

You see Brianna did not plan on leaving voluntarly, and the people she associated with are involved with illegal activity, drugs and guns.

You wonder why the two cases are handled differently with different resources used. One is that probable cause is needed for a search warrant and the Police have that plus other court orders in the Brianna Maitland case and the other one is a missing adult who planned on leaving and made arrangements to do so.

I do hope the glaring difference is very evident to anyone who read the Press Release, to me it jumps out.

You see Maura is smart and self reliant so that is another reason why I feel she has the smarts to stay missing by choice if she wants to.

Another point in releasing this press release is to inform the public of the work done on both cases and dispel the "myth" that they are related in any way, shape or form .


Foul play is strongly suspected in the case of Brianna and not Maura. Facts support the case of foul play in the Brianna case, but not Maura. Except in the mind of Fred Murray.

Fred Murray should take a cue from the mother of Erika Baker. Even though Erika was a young child, disappeared suddenly, she never gave up hope against all odds that her daughter would walk in the door.

She has only recently started to mourn the loss of her daughter and accepted that she is not going to ever come home.



[/QUOTE]

How could anyone even presume to know what is in the mind of Fred Murray? Hello!!!!!! His daughter has vanished!!! Would you not want ever resource available to help find your child? And why shouldn't he have these resources? Has it occured to you that LE is not always competent in their jobs and it is the responsibility, unfortuantly, of the family left behind to persue every avenue possible? These resources would be available if it were one of the officials child missing, believe me. If Maura is missing on her own, and lets hope that she is, she still needs to be found, as you have pointed out time and time again, there seems that there may be things that she needs help with from the people who love her, not strangers that may take advantage of her situation. It does not matter how old you are, if you are lost in this big world, you deserve to be found! Please, try to be more understanding of a family that is grieving. And Mr Murray has the right to information that he is requesting, as he seems to be the only one looking for his daughter!

[Peabody]

Oh I see the debate is still going strong w/ our buddy cyberlaw. :snooty:

Well, regardless, positive thoughts for Maura and her family during the recent 1 yr anniversary of her disappearance. :(
LilyRush,

I wholeheartedly agree........we need to make sure we engage in positive discussion and debate while avoiding confusing speculation.

I am very concerned that members will tire of the "same ol' same ol" and give up posting their interest in Maura's case.

Perhaps it would be best for all of us to completely ignore the negative and just not respond :hand:


Just my two cents today :twocents:

[Peabody]

Earlier speculation on this forum (most likely in the postings that were accidentally deleted ) discussed how Fred Murray could just give up on his daughter being alive.........

Seems he hasn't:


'.............Through it all, Fred Murray is hanging on to hope that his daughter is safe and sound somewhere.

“I want her alive,” he said. “But failing that I want whichever of the dirtbags that did this to be caught.” ..................'

http://www.hansonexpress.com/article_95.shtml (http://www.hansonexpress.com/article_95.shtml)

[hydemi]

Reading thru the last group of posts I reviewed the early news stories and later posts about the Thursday night, 2/5/04, during which Maura is said to have received the upsetting phone call while at her campus security job which made her distraught & crying & escorted back to her dorm.

The first mention is the Boston Globe 2/21/04 which attributes the story to Fred Murray and a high school friend Andrea Connolly, but it seems in context that they are repeating what they were told by campus police about Maura and the upsetting phone call on the Thursday night in question.

The next is the Caledonian Record 2/27/04 with the same story, again no timeline or specific times cited, and U Mass police detective Brian Davies given as the source.

The Quincy Patriot Ledger of 2/28/04 has the same story--upset, crying after the phone call etc.--with no timeline and no source.

The Boston Globe story of 3/02/04 is probably the source of the confusion that has ensued about this upsetting phone call, as it attributes the phone call received by Maura while at her campus security job to Kathleen Murray, with Lt. Robert Thrasher of the UMass police as the source. No timeline or phone record is cited.

The Patriot Ledger the next day 3/3/04 actually interviews Kathleen Murray who says that Maura called her (not vice versa!) around 10pm and that they talked about Kathleen's fighting with her boyfriend. Maura was not upset. This phone call has been verified from Maura's cell phone records.

This is the only phone call of that night which has been publicly verified as to time & source on Maura's cell phone records.

Obviously the Globe 3/2/04 story from Thrasher and the Ledger 3/3/04 interview with Kathleen Murray are in conflict as to who called whom & how.

It is worth noticing that the press release by NHSP on 6/8/04 and the synopsis of Maura's case by Det. Scarinza makes no mention of the upsetting phone call or of Maura's possible reasons for leaving school.

The Daily Collegian of 9/9/04 again rehashes the story mentioning Kathleen, Maura's co-workers (unnamed) and a WCVB-TV report, again with no timeline.
Det. Scarinza is quoted again as saying that police still do not know why Maura left school.

Two posts by Faith, a family friend, appear on MauraMurray.com dated 12-10-04 and 1-12-05, pointing out the discrepancy between the time of Kathleen's 10pm conversation with Maura (on Maura's cell record!) and the supposed 1am upsetting phone call received by Maura while on the job.

Faith adds that Fred Murray has been unable to verify the story and to speak to the supervisor who allegedly escorted Maura back to her dorm.

The 1am time for the upsetting call is a time that had to have been communicated to the family at some point by the U Mass campus police, as it does not appear in the early news stories or any other source that I can find.

Several of the early stories cited above do mention the U Mass campus police both Brian Davies and Robert Thrasher as sources for events of 2//5/04.

Lastly the post by Peabody above, who also has a connection to the family, notes that the campus security phone where Maura worked was not supposed to receive incoming personal phone calls--so any 1am conversation on 2/6/04 was either initiated by Maura or came from someone to whom Maura had given the number of her security desk.

And to repeat my own question--does anyone know when Maura arrived at work that night, and what her hours on the job were supposed to be?

Cyberlaw notes 8pm to 12am hours from the UMass website for security receptionists, and presumes her hours were 8pm to 12pm. ?????

[MaineSearcher]

Fred, I, and others have been searching for Maura for a year now. If anyone, knows or has information to where Maura maybe found, please let us know. We are strongly looking at a few people in the area that maybe attributed to Maura's disappearance. If anyone has any information, as trivial as it may be, please let us know!

[Julie]

I just checked out and read all the news stories and anything pertaining to Maura that I could find.
I don't want to question anything and bring any disrespect or hurt to her family.

She is a very beautiful person, is it possible that she was meeting someone? And that's why she didn't want the bus driver to call the police? Maybe she had met a new guy and they were going away for a week together?? Also did they check her cellphone records to see if she had indeed called AAA?
If she did,that to me would point out that she was abducted. If she didn't that could mean that she was meeting someone and would call them and have them come pick her up. But then of course, if she was waiting for someone, she could've been abducted before they arrived. And why wouldn't that person have come forward?
Did they check for any hotel reservations or anything where her directions led to in Burlington?
Was her car still warm when LE got there?? Meaning her accident was recent and she wasn't waiting for someone? and since that school bus driver approached her and offered to help, she assumed he would call police and she left to meet that person.

Honestly I don't think she was running away from her life for good. I'm sure she met up with foul play.

[CyberLaw]

http://www.newtimes-slo.com/archive/2003-09-24/archives/cov_stories_2003/cov_03202003.html

The "missing person" joins the ranks of Americans who mysteriously go missing every year. At any given time, according to U.S. Justice Department data, the whereabouts of 40,000 adults in this country is unknown. Each person leaves behind loved ones and friends who can do nothing but ponder their absence–and worry.
People drop from sight for almost as many reasons as there are disappearances–broken marriages and dreams, shattered romances, disappointing occupations, financial problems, general dissatisfaction with life, fear. With many others, the departure is not at all voluntary.

When an adult’s disappearance is reported to law enforcement agencies, details provided by the reporting party and by relatives will be used by investigators to place the case in one of seven different categories: "lost," "catastrophe," "stranger abduction," "suspicious circumstances," "voluntary missing," and "dependent adult."

In 2001, 841,266 cases were reported to the FBI, but 861,918 were cleared, reflecting closure of old cases.

Experts agree that the number of missing adults reported in the United States each year–almost 200,000 in 2001–is low because local police routinely take a wait-and-see approach. Cost-effectiveness is said to be the reason. And without sound evidence of foul play, a disappearance case probably will not get much attention.

MaineSearch: I can understand your "desperations.

We are strongly looking at a few people in the area that maybe attributed to Maura's disappearance. If anyone has any information, as trivial as it may be, please let us know!

She was last seen running away from the accident scene along routes 112/116, avoiding a passing car. She was fine and "avoiding" any involvement of LE.

Are you "objectively" looking at people. What is the criteria you are using to determine this. Are you asking people for alibi's, to "furnish personal details", what exactly are you doing. I would be VERY careful when you are dealing with others, not because they are a danger, but because they can call a lawyer or real LE.

If you cross a very thin line, you could see yourself in trouble.

Maura's case is determined to be a voluntarly missing adult, why are you looking at others as to the source of her "disappearance".

You should consider the "Murray family fortunate" as Maura clearly indicated that she went voluntarly missing.

Other people go voluntarly missing, but they leave no clues. Then of course the "family" suspect the worse.

Those would be the "unknown" cases.

Julie: What makes you "sure" that Maura is or was a victim of foul play. Please provide me with your argument or evidence.

Remember Melissa Kennedy from New York.......she gave no indication of "voluntarly" going missing.

She had "emotional" problems and was "stressed from school". She knew people were looking for her and that her parents were "filled with anxiety and distraught". She also called them, but her parents did not tell LE this.

What makes people think that they know exactly what others will or will not do. What kind of pressures they are under, what is going on in their life, expecially when they won't talk about it or admit they have problems.

Who knows what they think.? What goes on in their minds? What reasons they do the things they do.?

Granted Maura has not used her Cell phone for the past year. That does mean that she has not used a cell phone for the last year, she could have used or bought a new cell phone.

Her Credit Cards can be replaced with new ones too.

New number also, all she has to do is report it lost and it will be replaced with new Credit Cards. She can also apply for other credit cards.

Has her SSN number been used, has her name been entered into a Peoplesearch.com database to determine if her name is associated with any public databases.

Did she open up a new bank account and is cashing cheques on this new account after taking out MOST of her money from her old account.

Like I said the above noted ideas are a lot more productive then looking "at people".

Use databases, Credit Reporting agencies, etc.

How do you know she is in the area.?

After all did she not have a note card associated with Burlingston, VT.

Have you checked all of the little towns in and around the Burlington Area.

I for one have not "written" her off for dead, or a victim of foul play. She is a smart, self reliant women who clearly is an adult who can take care of her self in an adult world.

Without her family..........they want to locate her, but who is to say that she wants to be found.

Unfortunately, it happens a lot more than you think. The missing person can live without their family and can do quite well, but the missing person can't live without the missing person.

The missing person family want the missing person located and "brought" back to us, but the missing person does not want to be "located and brought back".

Even IF Maura is located by LE, they would need her permission to tell the family where she is.

If she chooses not to tell them, to the family she is still missing and they are right back to square one, because they cannot "locate" her and she is still "missing from her family".

There is always two sides to every story.

Circumstances are rulers of the weak and instruments of the wise.

[Julie]

Julie: What makes you "sure" that Maura is or was a victim of foul play. Please provide me with your argument or evidence.


I said I 'think' which means that's my opinion on it. I ,of course, don't know for sure.

[Grassyknoll2]

Sorry, I can't get the links to work, but these are very interesting articles for those interested in missing persons cases.

http://www.newtimes-slo.com/archive/2003-09-24/archives/cov_stories_2003/cov_03202003.html
An exhaustive, 10-part series on missing persons published in February by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/108579_missingday17.shtmlsuggested)the (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/108579_missingday17.shtmlsuggested)the) low priority assigned missing cases by most police departments is a national problem.

"Because of a lack of knowledge, indifference or poor training, police officers around the country fail to take even the most obvious steps, conduct routine follow-ups or comply with the law when handling missing-persons cases," the newspaper reported following a year-long investigation.

Detectives will often look for ways to dump cases so they won’t have to do follow-up work, according to the newspaper, quoting a forensic specialist who said, "If people knew how little was done with missing-persons cases, they’d scream."

Ben Ermini, a former police officer now with the National Center For Missing and Exploited Children, was also quoted by the Seattle newspaper: "The people who are put in missing-persons bureaus are not the most experienced detectives. Usually, it’s the guy on sick leave, reprimanded for something or near retirement. The missing-persons bureau is not looked at as the choice job."

In the past, police often would wait hours, days, even weeks or months before acting on a missing person report. The theory was that most people who went missing had done so voluntarily, that they didn’t want to be found. After a number of high-profile cases where law enforcement’s judgment was profoundly questionable and lack of action deplorable, demands for change were made.

To partially answer a question asked above, I have a friend (who has worked for SSA for many, many years) who says that Social Security would not know whether a person had used their social security card to get a new job until tax time. Perhaps the person who searches with Mr. Murray should tell him that now would be the time to notify SSA if the police have not done so.

As to taking out MOST of her money. I still say, less than $280 would go far.

[diglit]

It's good to have many different ideas submitted, but, please remember the word "respect". Regarding all of the suppositions about what upset Maura, and why she left the campus, I believe that at this point, one full year later, none of that matters. It might have at the very beginning of her disappearance. We probably all agree that she didn't drive off the side of Rt 112 on purpose. It was an accident, something not expected, and that accident scene is where the focus should be, I think. It could help to "brainstorm" possibilities starting right there where her photo is posted on 112. By "brainstorming" I mean to just think about the possible things that any person, not just Maura, might encounter right there, with snow and ice covering everything, 7:30 PM, no "street" lights, not a heavily travelled road at that time of year except for the year-around residents. In trying to "forget" about Maura for a few minutes, you might become aware of all sorts of problems, or solutions, that any person could encounter.

[CyberLaw]

OMG, the FBI gets involved in criminal cases. In a criminal case you need a victim of crime. Evidence also.

Ever wonder why Scott Peterson was charged with Laci's murder when her body was found, and not before.

Sorry real life is not some TV script. LE actually needs factual information and evidence that OMG a crime has been committed. Go figure.........

You think that Fred Murray should TELL the FBI to charge the NH state police with Obstruction of Justice. Sorry, I just fell off my chair laughing. Sorry did it again, still laughing. How about charging the Attorney General for New Hampshire also.

If you actually familarize yourself with, this is a hard word to understand FACTS, you will see that Fred Murray will not get the files that he requested. Not a "legal chance" in heck. They are of an "investigative" nature and are subject to exception of the FOIA.

Not only do you have to look at the circumstances of the "alcohol related accident" you have to look at the person too.

Maura was able to run 4-5 miles with no problem. She routinely ran long distances. Track star....... that is the person. She very easily could have run to Lincoln and caught a bus to places unknown. You can't run long distances with suitcases .......

Could she have used some of the $280.00 to buy several bus tickets. Yes. Could she be in any one of a million places. Yes to that also.

No mention was ever made of a Passport, or if she had one.

Honor roll student, smart person........knows how to cover her tracks and lie to people. Self reliant......

Maura "avoided" a passing car, tried to in some sort of way, hide from it. Not the actions of a person in trouble or considering trouble.

The fact that the area is not well travelled, leads me to believe that if she did not feel she was in trouble, heck she would have gone to a house or flagged the car down if she felt any danger.

When people "question" LE in missing person cases it is more of an emotional response, then a factual one. They want their missing person found, if LE does not find them, then of course in their minds LE is to blame.

Can a missing person become a victim of a crime at any time that they are missing . Yes. Can a person who is not missing become a victim of crime at any time. Yes.

Can missing person be "missing" for many years. Yes.

Do the Police have higher priortiy crimes that need the attention of their services other than missing people who voluntarly go missing. You bet.

Are the other crimes of higher priority, safety to the public, a person, the city. Yes again.

Do the Police have unlimited time, money and resources to find the daughter who decided to "ditch" her family and voluntary go missing. No.

So I wonder why "missing" person's reports get such a low priortity, it seems that acutal crimes are of a higher priority.

Remember that the Police are there to investigate actual crimes, protect the public, serve the public and bring criminals to justice. They are not the voluntarly missing person police working for individuals who have a missing loved one.

An adult daughter of a politician does not come home for days. She is "missing" to her family.

A news release is on TV, newspapers, radio etc.

The Father knows the daughter likes to party.

Of course he does not tell the Police this. He uses his "political" influence to ensure that the public is well informed that his daughter is "missing" for days.

News Conferences, search teams, friends and family all look for the "missing" person.

Embarasses her in public. She comes home after her party friends "kid her about her Dad". You Dad is on TV looking for you, so please leave our house.

It happens again. After the third time, LE takes a report, but the media refuses to broadcast it.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me

You wonder why "missing" persons get such low priority. Because of no crime has been committed. Unless of course they search the house of the "missing" person and find "evidence" of a crime. Then they know that the missing person may be a victim, not just missing.

Does needle and haystack come to mind when it comes to finding a missing persons. That would be one needle in 300 million haystacks.

[PrayersForMaura]

While I realize this is a discussion of sorts and that everyone is entitled to their opinions, I do wonder why you are so angry, cyberlaw, and why it seems you have so much hatred for Maura??
It's a bit bothersome to me, thought I'm trying not to let it bother me.
I just really would like to know why you are so angry? Are you involved in the case in some way other than being a sleuther? Did you know Maura?

[Peabody]

[QUOTE=CyberLaw]OMG, the FBI gets involved in criminal cases. In a criminal case you need a victim of crime. Evidence also.]


Cyberlaw, the FBI gets involved in missing person cases as well as criminal cases. Please just check out their website



IT IS A FACT THAT THE THE FBI *OFFERED* THEIR ASSISTANCE TO NH LE IN MAURA'S CASE ON WEDNESDAY, FEBRUARY 11. It seems unlikely they would have offered their assistance IF legally they could not get involved AND unless they felt they should be involved.

The FBI's offer was the result of Lt. Bill Rausch, Maura's boyfriend contacting them regarding a call from a prepaid calling card very early the morning of 2/11/04. Lt. Rausch was going through airport security and had his cell phone 'off'. The missed call went directly to his voice mail. The very short "message" consisted of a female voice shivering and crying softly ending with a muffled sob.


The fact that Lt. Rausch is certain that it was Maura crying in the "message' AND that she has never called again IS one of the countless reasons that those that love her FEAR that that she is a victim of foul play. Do you seriously doubt that anyone that loves her would rather that she ran away than to have been harmed? They are not that selfish and those that love Maura know her selflessness and compassion - while they believe it a ridiculous notion that she ran away, they know that anything is possible; BUT they also have relationships with Maura which you do not AND they know that if for reasons unknown, that she chose to run away, she WOULD HAVE LET FAMILY AND BOYFRIEND KNOW THAT SHE WAS OK...........you have no understanding of her thoughtfulness, kindness and compassion. It takes a detached and selfish personality to separate ones self from all of his/her relationships........Maura was the opposite of these traits.



The prepaid calling card call is ANOTHER bone of contention with the investigative ability of the NH SP regarding the investigation:

Det. Todd Landry told Lt. Rausch on the evening of 2/11/04 that the call orignated from the American Red Cross. At the time, Both Lt. Rausch and his mother disputed the logic in that information because neither of them had provided the AMRC with his phone number......further, the AMRC had already confirmed on the evening of 2/10/04 that they had contacted his commander in arranging his emergency leave from the US Army to go to NH.....the only phone numbers that the AMRC needed to contact the ARMY was the commanding officer's number and Mrs. Rausch's number to confirm the leave had been arranged. As strange as it seems, Lt. Rausch was completely out of the loop with communicating with AMRC. It is just not possible to conceive that the AMRC had a method of obtaining Lt. Rausch's cell phone number when they had no reason to call him AND that they never did call him. However, NH SP insisted that the call was from AMRC.

After returning home from the search for Maura, the Rausches used 2 separate personal resources in attempts to trace the prepaid calling card. They used a second resource after the first resource because of wanting to confirm information that the first resource provided: PREPAID CALLING CARDS CALLS CANNOT BE TRACED....this information has since been confirmed by numerous resources. THEREFORE, NH SP WERE INCORRECT IN STATING THAT THEY HAD BEEN ABLE TO TRACE THE PREPAID CALLING CARD CALL TO LT. RAUSCH'S CELL PHONE......this just cannot be done!

During the first 10 days or so of Maura's missingThe FBI was very helpful to the Murray and Rausch Families. They provided direction as to the correct course of action to take and stressed that they must work through NH LE, always reminding the Murrays and Rausches to be sure to extend to NH LE the information that the FBI was willing upon invitation to assist in the case. The FBI even gave them personal cell phone numbers as contacts.

........however, after about 10 days of communicating with the FBI, the family received a phone call from the head of the New Hampshire regional office of the FBI stating that the NH SP did not want their assistance and as a result all communication with the FBI should cease..........wonder where that directive came from ??? The Murrays and Rausches were told that because the FBI was not an official part of the investigation, they were sorry, but they would no longer be permitted to communicate regarding the case.


Of course, the invitation to the FBI from NH LE to actively assist in the investigation has never been given. Because Fred Murray let it be known through the media that the FBI was willing to assist, and in an attempt to placate Fred Murray, Lt. Scarinza asked the FBI to interview family and friends in Maura's hometown of Hanson MA.

The FBI was not involved in any investigation at UMass - the UMass Campus Police handled that end of the investigation........by the way, an investigation in which Maura's family and Lt. Rausch were very pleased.

some supporting links: http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/20/news/news02.txt

please note that in this story, even Lt. Scarinza admits that there was no search for Maura for 36 hours........he uses the excuse that Maura was drinking and that she was driving her father's car........wouldn't the police be obligated to look for any person supposed to be intoxicated when they were near a National Forest where there were no homes AND the temp was 12 degrees and falling?

And why was the car being Fred Murray's an issue in the delay in the search???? ........according to Butch Atwood, he reported the 'missing person' was a "young woman about 20 years old".......why wouldn't the police call the owner of the car to see if he knew something about this young woman? Seems to me that any policeman would logically assume that a young woman of about 20 missing from a car registered to a man Fred Murray's age would be a relative. And the car was had a UMass parking registration permit that was in Maura's name - if checked, that would have confirmed the connection with at least the surname.

Another Link re: the FBI - this one had the specific spin by NH LE that they had invited FBI for assistance.....but remember it was only in interviewing Maura's family and friends to determine if she was a likley runaway, something which everyone who knows her says is not likely.

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=BG&p_theme=bg&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_text_search-0="maura%20murray"&s_dispstring=maura%20murray%20AND%20date(2/1/2004%20to%2012/31/2005)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=2/1/2004%20to%2012/31/2005&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date&xcal_useweights=no (http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=BG&p_theme=bg&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_text_search-0=)

From the Boston Globe - you can order complete article for $2.95

WITH NO NEW LEADS, FBI JOINS SEARCH FOR MISSING STUDENT
Published on February 20, 2004
Author(s): Peter DeMarco, Globe Correspondent

The FBI has joined in the search for missing college student Maura Murray, but without a single lead in the nearly two-week old case, New Hampshire authorities said the additional investigators might not make a difference.


HOW CALLOUS AND BOASTFUL THAT NH LE SAYS THAT " ADDITIONAL INVESTIGATORS MIGHT NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE".............what would it have hurt for them to ask for their help when offered????



Hopefully, you are right Cyberlaw and Maura is alive somewhere.


But, unfortunately, any unbiased person has to admit to a severe stretch of logic to deny that something smells very fishy about the handling of Maura's missing by NH LE.

[KatherineQ]

Peabody - I don't think it's true that prepaid calling cards can't be traced. They apparently are DIFFICULT to trace (as in, they don't show up on calller ID or *57, when used by the call recipient), but law enforcement can trace them by getting the phone records.

http://artofhacking.com/files/BEATCID.HTM

I think it's irrefutable that Maura Murray intended to run away, for at least a couple weeks, and not tell anyone at all where she was going - not her friends, not her roommates, and not her family. That much I think is absolutely crystal clear and as far as I know, no one disputes it. That something may have happened to her in the course of her running off voluntarily seems like a real possibility.

It must jsut be unimaginable hell to be in her family's shoes, and not know. They don't know where she was intending to go, and why, so they don't even have a starting place to find out whether she's made it there as she intended. Very sad.

edited to add: I haven't been following this case completely, but it seems to me that NH LE must be in a very difficult position of trying not to violate Maura's right to privacy, in the face of the fact that she was clearly trying to leave secretly (which is her right) and trying to accommodate her family who are worried to death over her. Where does the state draw the line, and decide to violate the privacy rights of one person because they ache for the family who is worried? It seems to me that Maura would have every right to sue the state for going through her private records, if she turns up safely and has decided to distance herself from her family and friends.

[Peabody]

Katherine,


Thank you for your insight..........all I know is that numerous agencies were contacted about tracing the prepaid calling card call. All agreed that the call could not be traced.

The family was told by all contacts in an attempt to trace the call that unless they knew the number of the calling card it was impossible to trace. Of course, Lt. Rausch's cell phone has the record of the number through which the call was routed. This is not the same as having the card number and owner: ie ATT, Walmart, etc.

I will forward the link that you have provided to the www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com) website for the family.

The family DOES DISPUTE that she was running away for a week or two with the intention of telling no one.

She called Lt. Rausch twice on the day that she disappeared. His position in the army prevented him from being available. Then she sent an email which I have posted before......it was printed in the June 2004 issue of Seventeen Magazine. She also had an appointment arranged to call her father the evening of her disappearing...........Both Lt. Rausch and Fred Murray have repeatedly said that Maura would not have left them phone messages saying she was going away.........she would only have told them persoanlly SO AS NOT TO CAUSE THEM UNDUE CONCERN. She and Lt. Rausch spoke or left messages with each other daily.

Lt. Rausch and Fred Murray AGREE that they did not know Maura was planning to go away and that she made that decision sometime during the night of Sunday, Feb 8 or the morning of Monday, Feb 9 when she started making arrangements to go away.....them not knowing of her plans does not mean that she did not intend on telling the at the first opportunity of speaking in person.

[KatherineQ]

Peabody - this case is heartbreaking, for sure.

I can't really imagine, probably because I don't know her, under what possible circumstances Maura would have packed up her things and left her dorm room after telling her professors she was leaving because of a death in the family - and NOT tell her boyfriend and her family but in fact INTEND to tell them in person. I would think, Maura would assume that within an hour or two of her cleaning out her belongings someone would have called her family to demand what was going on - it doesn't sound like that happened, but that would be the reasonable thing to think - and then they'd surely be very, very worried about her. What could she be doing that she didn't even mention in brief in the days before, and yet, her family believes she did intend to tell them where she was going - when she hadn't mentioned even the slightest peep of her intent to leave in her contacts with them in the days prior. If she was going somewhere totally legit and she was about to tell her father all about it, did she intend to arrive drunk and tell him? If she didn't have some other clear method of getting out of the pickle she was in - freezing weather, and a wrecked car, and night approaching - why did she refuse help? She must have had some other resource that she knew was on the way.

I don't understand why her family can't locate the number that she called second to last before her disappearance, that is mentioned on her website - it seems like if they got the student directory they could just go through the painful process of looking down each page of numbers and finding the one that matched, even though that person would have "moved on" by now, they'd have a name to match the number. But that too is puzzling - SURELY that person knew Maura went missing and yet they didn't come forward with information, that she had called them.

Anyway, prayers that she will be found safe.

[Peabody]

Maura's family did continue researching the second phone number until they located to whom it belonged.


The number belonged to the fellow nursing student who had been giving Maura rides to nursing clinicals because of Maura's mechanical problems with her car.

Maura's family learned that she called and left the fellow nursing student a message about not being in school. This student was an acquaintance of Maura, not a good friend - they had simply been assigned the same schedule for the remainder of the school year.

Maura had a private dorm room. There would be no reason for anyone to report the room was packed and Maura was gone..........there is still the question as to if the room was packed or simply not unpacked since school had resumed for less than 2 weeks, including only 2 weekends, one of which Maura had spent working and the other with her father before she decided to leave school for a week.

There is still no proof that Maura was drinking - the busdriver says he did not report that she was intoxicated and that he saw no behavior from her to indicate that she was.....his report is the only one we have. Yes, there were alcoholic beverages in the car, but this does not mean that she was drinking, although I could not say she was not.

As to Maura refusing help from the busdriver: that simply means for reasons known only to her that she was not comfortable in accepting his help.....that does not mean that she had other resources. Even he and his wife said that he has a frightful appearance.........since Maura has never been in contact with anyone since speaking to the busdriver, the possibility of her being abducted before the police arrived is one of the fears of the family.

I thank you for your prayers as I am sure the Murray and Rausch families thank you also.

[KatherineQ]

Prayers for them all. None of it makes any real sense, does it, the more you think about Maura's story, the more confusing it gets. It's so hard to believe with such a very close family, and a fiance, that NONE of them knew where she was going when she cleaned out her dorm and her bank account and headed off in a car she didn't think ran reliably.

It just seems like there are those - her friends, maybe, her family, maybe - who know more than they're willing to admit, even to themselves.

[gatetrekker44]

I too have questioned the absolute viciousness of CyberLaw's posts regarding Maura-and also asked the question as to whether he/she had some sort of involvement because of his/her absolute singlemindedness in trying to make Maura look like a drunken idiot that got what she deserved and his/her attacks on Fred Murray. What everyone should remember is that there is NO PROOF that Maura was driving under the influence-just as there is NO PROOF that she was meeting anyone or that the few "facts" about her case are accurate since there is no corraboration of the statements given by the few witnesses that have have come forward. And the longer Maura is gone, and the longer LE has dug in its heels in its stance that no crime has been committed makes me seriously wonder if there is a more sinister agenda here-like MAYBE someone in LE was POSSIBLY involved in her disappearance? It would certainly explain the shoddy police work done to date-and why LE is resisting help from other agencies like the FBI and have left the family to do its own investigating-which by the way has turned up more concrete proof of what transpired up until the accident than anything LE found! AND it would also explain their reluctance to turn over their info(such as it may be) to the Murray family. :banghead:

[Peabody]

[QUOTE=CyberLaw]

If you actually familarize yourself with, this is a hard word to understand FACTS, you will see that Fred Murray will not get the files that he requested. Not a "legal chance" in heck. They are of an "investigative" nature and are subject to exception of the FOIA.

QUOTE]

Cyberlaw,

I believe that you are absolutely correct: I see no way that Fred Murray is legally entitled to information from Maura's case as long as the NH SP have it listed as an open investigation.

[audrey77]

I agree.

If it's still considered "part of an investigation" they don't have to release it.

Even if it has personal information in it...- alot can be redacted- more than you think. I had a hard time getting a school district's administrative record b/c of it.

[hydemi]

FYI there is a reply by Mrs. Rausch, posting under Sharon, on the website mauramurray.com which goes into more detail on the attempts to trace the phone call received by her son on Feb. 11th of 2004 as he was passing through security at the Okla City airport.

She also says, "I had given Maura several prepaid calling cards in November."

Again without the complete card info there is no way of knowing whether the call was made with the aid of one of these cards, which would of course prove that the caller who left the message of breathing & sobbing was indeed Maura.

But it is worth speculating what was the situation if Maura was calling her boyfriend thirty six hours or so after her disappearance.

Was she being held against her will? Was she thinking of talking to Lt Rausch, but unable to leave a message, as she decided to keep running? Was she simply so upset that she could not focus enough to leave a message?

Presumably she would have used the prepaid card either because her cellphone battery had drained or because she still was not in an area where it had a signal.

This untraced call is the one frustratingly unverifiable piece of evidence that suggests that she not only survived her frigid trek on Monday night Feb 9th but that she also kept running and was still upset, unable or unwilling to contact her family or Lt. Rausch.

It has impressed me strongly that the Rausches have remained adamant in their conviction that this untraced call came from Maura, that the voice was hers--alas the actual voice message was later deleted.

[Chavon]

I agree with you Hydemi. One of the most salient points to me that argues that she had not met with foul play after the 2nd car accident was the fact that her car door was locked. Also, the dogs had traced her scent up to the highway and then her scent dissapeared. This means that she had more than likely hitchhiked to her destination. The man down the street said he left and came back in about what was it, 7 to 8 minutes? This sounds like someone to me who was completely bent on escaping from yet another emotionally draining episode given her past history. This girl seems to me overloaded emotionally and wanted to escape at all costs. We don't know the whys all we have are the actions. The part that worries me is that she may have met with foul play in the interim after leaving the 2nd accident. I have been worried about her and only hope that she has constructed a new life somewhere where she can reassess her life and find herself.

[Grassyknoll2]

Also, the dogs had traced her scent up to the highway and then her scent dissapeared. What highway...while Route 112 is apparently a state road...it is a rural road.......very dark and pretty isolated. The dogs didn't 'trace' her scent for about 36 hours...

[hydemi]

Dear G,

the road at the crash scene by the Weathered Barn is surprisingly wide and open, with a number of houses nearby.

The spot where the dogs lost the scent (to be accurate) is right in front of Butch Atwood's, the schoolbus driver's house.

There are road signs on Atwood's side of the road listing the distances as seven miles back to Wells River and seventeen miles east to N. Woodstock.

Of course it was dark, so she could easily have hidden nearby when the Haverhill police arrived and waited to depart after seeing which way Atwood and Officer Smith went in search of her.

They went back west, it appears, so presumably she went east.

[Peabody]

Dear G,

the road at the crash scene by the Weathered Barn is surprisingly wide and open, with a number of houses nearby.

The spot where the dogs lost the scent (to be accurate) is right in front of Butch Atwood's, the schoolbus driver's house.

There are road signs on Atwood's side of the road listing the distances as seven miles back to Wells River and seventeen miles east to N. Woodstock.

Of course it was dark, so she could easily have hidden nearby when the Haverhill police arrived and waited to depart after seeing which way Atwood and Officer Smith went in search of her.

They went back west, it appears, so presumably she went east.Hydemi,

The photos and television reports certainly agree with your description of the crash scene being "surprisingly wide and open, with a number of houses nearby".

However, surpisingly wide and open for a rural area is not the same as being *wide and open* Also, as you mentioned, there are a "number of homes nearby". But again, I have been told that if you go east, it is only a very short distance until you enter the White National Forest where there are NO homes. If Maura went east, then she was facing at least 16 miles of uninhabited roadside.

Hopefully, Maura was in a condition to cover those miles safely - but IF she was drinking, she would have been more prone to hypothermia - it was snowing which may have made her wet and it was 12 degrees at the time of the accident and getting colder by the minute; there is no doubt she was shaken....this is substantiated by Atwood, so who knows if she even saw the highway signs to which you refer.

...when one considers that she MAY have been drinking and was definitely shaken by the accident - the physical as well as the emotional aspects - along with the very dark and uneven road surface in an unfamiliar area, it is hard to believe that Maura was able to cover distance in the routine times that her running records indicates might be possible.

The area is lightly traveled, but it would only take one motorist to offer Maura a ride.......ONE lone motorist that would have no prior connection to Maura and could easily harm her in her vulnerable condition leaving no one with any knowledge of her ties to him

- it would seem that if a motorist had given her ride to another location, that with NH LE insisting that she was either suicidal or a run away that they would be willing to come forward, report their act of being a GOOD SAMARITAN *and* collect on the $40,000.00 Reward.


Also, according to Maura's family, while Maura had frequented the Bartlett NH area, she had never visited there with an approach from the west........therefore even if she saw the sign that stated Woodstock was 17 miles, she would not know that once she left the populated scene of the accident that she would be entering a forest with no homes.

I pray each day that Maura is safe somewhere and starting over. But, as I have mentioned before, I am acquainted with people who know Maura. They are all in agreement that for Maura to deliberately choose to leave to start a new life is totally out of character for her.

Have you ever been in a position where you thought "If only people knew everything about this particular situation, they would feel/know differently?"

There are too many things that the public does not know - not secret things, but about Maura - traits that made Maura so endearing.

Sharon Rausch, the boyfriend's mother, is known to have repeatedly said both BEFORE and AFTER Maura's missing that Maura was no doubt the "easiest person to love that I have ever met.".....I cannot exactly quote the remaider of her statements, but she spoke of Maura's adoration for her son; of her kindness, concern and consideration towards ALL people; of her positive nature; of her constant smile and positive attitude regardless of the circumstances; of her outstanding work ethic; of her appreciative nature; of her genuineness; of her intelligence, but of the childlike trust she placed in everyone....I believe there was more - I saw her on television and had one of my acquaintances tell me that had been Mrs. Rausch's description of Maura from the early days of her dating the boyfriend.... Those that know Maura better than Mrs. Rausch are in total agreement........it just doesn't add up to a young woman who would turn her back on everyone she knows.

My tragic belief that Maura is the victim of foul play is the result of this logical thinking COMBINED with the description of those people who know her best.

The facts that I have been provided from those who had relationships with Maura convince me that it defies logic to assume that she wanted to get away from everyone: .......her parents were divorced for many years - she had an easy opportunity to turn to one and exclude the other.........or turn to brothers sisters, aunts, or a grandmother if she was fed up with both parents - I know of more than one family where individuls have been "disowned" and members do not speak or associate;........ if she wanted out of the relationship with the boyfriend, he was in the west, all she had to do was send a dear john letter -she didn't even have to speak to him, let alone break away from all of her family and lifelong friends with the him 2000 miles away....with the boyfriend in the army, there would have been no way that he could stalk her or do much of anything besides call her; .......a change of phone numbers, not a change of identity, would have solved that problem.
:doh:

[hydemi]

yes it seems unlikely that she made it all the way along that stretch of road on that night--although the contractor sighting story not reported to police until April 29 placed her about five miles east one hour or so later near the junction of 112 & 116 only eleven to twelve miles from N. Woodstock.

And there are some homes and buildings along route 112 starting in the Wildwood area--and more along route 116 up the hill in Benton.

And the call on Lt Rausch's cellphone came 36 hours later.

And I recall somewhere in the posts it being said that Fred Murray initially believed she could have made the seventeen miles given her fitness level and her being used to running in cold weather.

So the real question about her running away in the first place has yet to be answered--why she left U Mass so suddenly, why she fled from the crash scene once she knew that police were on the way?

More unanswered questions, I know--but what did she have to tell her Father
when she was trying to drive over to his hotel at 3am in the morning of Feb 8, presumably something about what was upsetting her on Thursday night or Friday after 1am when she was allegedly crying and so shaky that she was walked back to her dorm by her supervisor?

If we knew why she left campus that Monday Feb 9th, we might be able to judge if she had reasons for not contacting anyone and going into hiding.

I have speculated above that a possible reason was involvement in the Petrit Vasi hit and run on Thursday night Feb 5th around midnight, but to date there is no public acknowledgement of any details which could prove this to have been her reason for leaving campus. Something overwhelming and troubling had happened to her, causing her to flee--only that is clear until we know more of what really happened.

[Peabody]

yes it seems unlikely that she made it all the way along that stretch of road on that night--........

So the real question about her running away in the first place has yet to be answered--why she left U Mass so suddenly, ........

Yes, the question about why she left UMass has yet to be answered.


The fact that she left UMass DOES NOT mean that she was running away.


The ONLY need to know WHY Maura left UMass IS to learn IF SHE WAS RUNNING AWAY.................any other reason DOES NOT MATTER.


I realize I have an advantage by having first hand knowledge of Maura's personality and characteristics albeit through those who know her. However, one does not need to know anything about her to understand that her email to the professors and the employers that she would be gone for a week due to a death in the family is THE excuse given when any student doesn't want questions and needs an excused absence which Maura would have needed for her school work. I saw a recent poll that stated the percentage of not only students, but also of workers who falsely provided "death in the family" as an excuse for work or school. The poll percentages were very high ......near 90 I believe; sadly, lying is something too many in society do and think nothing of it, IT is not the evidence to prove that someone was running away.


It is a fact that Maura lied to her p's and boss about WHY she was leaving, but the only evidence that she was not planning on coming back in one week as she said was the "packed" dorm room..... this "evidence" is at the least questionable because of her extremely full class schedule, nursing clinical schedule, part time work for two employers AND school having been underway for only two weeks to the day that Maura went missing.........combine this with the fact that out of two weekends back at UMass, she spent one entire weekend with her father.......there are those who are convinced the room was UNPACKED due to lack of time - not that it was PACKED for her to run away. As to the reports that I read that the room was "neatly packed", again I have the insight of those who knew Maura extremely well: Maura was known to be compulsively neat.

It is a fact that in Maura's abandoned car was barely a week's worth of clothing. The only spare shoes she had with her were her running shoes. What woman runs away with only ONE PAIR OF SHOES?


On television and in newspaper reports during the first week after Maura went missing, the boyfriend said that Maura had tried to call him several times on Monday BEFORE she left UMass. When she could not reach him (for those who do not know, he is a LT. in the army), she emailed him and promised to call that evening. The email was published in the June issue of 'Seventeen'. She told him she loved him.


I think that EVERYONE would have to admit that calling and emailing your sweetheart who is 2000 miles away is NOT the action of a person who is going to run away and disappear.


AND, let's go ahead and agree that Maura was drinking the night of the accident: A DUI is not reason enough to run away and disappear. Her fear of a citation MAY BE the reason she chose to evade the police IF she made that choice. BUT, we don't know for sure that Maura tried to evade the police. WE KNOW that she was missing from the accident scene: Perhaps she was abducted at the accident scene.


One still needs to give some thought to the crying incident: It is reported that Maura IS NOT an emotional person. But, I think most, if not all of even the most stoic women can think of a time that they just broke down and cried.......very often for no particular reason, usually just a feeling of being overwhelmed. Do you really think that ONE crying jag is reason to run away and disappear?


As I mentioned in a post somewhere online (may have been in the posts that were deleted here at Websleuths) after Maura went missing, to my extreme surprise, my daughter told me that during her college days that there were a few times when she "got up early, left for school and work, arranged to be off both, and drove around all day and evening" - she didn't go anywhere, do anything or visit anyone - she drove through parts of the state that she had never visited.......she was literally on the road for 8-10 hours. She says that her friends, both male and female have similar stories........did they do this on a regular basis? No, BUT they did without anyone's knowledge leave school when they were physically, mentally, or emotionally drained........ out of the desire or perhaps what they perceived as the need for time off.

That is what I believe explains Maura's spur of the moment trip that was un-announced to her family and boyfriend. She felt the desire to just get away - perhaps to make decisions, perhaps just to rest, but most of all just to be away.....don't most of us have that desire at least a few times a year?


I am convinced by the evidence that has been released to the public through television and newspaper reports combined with the information provided to me about Maura by those who know her that she would have told the boyfriend about her trip/plans had she reached him by phone on Monday.....and it makes sense to me that she planned on telling her father THE EVENING that she disappeared: It is a fact that Maura picked up duplicate forms to be completed for the first accident in Hadley MA on Sat. night.......she had arrangements to call her father on Monday evening (the night that she vanished) for his assistance in completeing them. The forms were found in her car.

It seems obvious that she never called the boyfriend that evening as promised in the email and that she never called her father as she prearranged BECAUSE she was prevented from calling. IF she was evading the police out of fear of a DUI, once she reached a location with a cell phone signal or a telephone, she would have called the boyfriend even if she was afraid to call her father because of the previous car accident.

It seems to me that these facts, while they cannot be defined as definite proof, are at the least VERY STRONG INDICATORS that Maura WAS NOT RUNNING AWAY.

[hydemi]

or at least indicators that the runaway theory has holes in it like the others do.

I appreciate your candid remarks. I understand why you are left with the abduction theory as the others (suicide, hypothermia, runaway) seem less supportable to you.

So I wonder if,

1) you do believe the contractor sighting around 8pm the night of 2/9 was a for-real sighting of Maura?

2) that she got a ride afterwards either from an abductor or otherwise such that she survived that night and was the caller to Lt Rausch on Wed am?

3) that the NHSP have some details and evidence as yet unrevealed which could alter our views of Maura's fate quite radically?

4) that there was something else bothering or upsetting her which she intended to tell her Dad about at 3am Sunday morning when she damaged his car, that she intended to tell Lt Rausch about on Monday?

More in line with your remarks about college kids needing a break and taking off for a while, there is a comment in the early media stories from one of Maura's friends (Sara, I think) that her favorite movie was "Bottle Rocket" which my college age son tells me is about kids escaping and running away from their "normal" lives but in a harmless funny slapstick way.

Believe me when I say that as a parent I have no axe to grind here other than some hope that she may after all be alive--that would be the best outcome whatever the tonnage of words on these websites.

[Grassyknoll2]

I realize that your questions are directed towards Peabody, but I'll add my 2 cents....


1) you do believe the contractor sighting around 8pm the night of 2/9 was a for-real sighting of Maura? I believe that if the police questioned neighbors as they say they did soon after the crash, that it is very difficult for me to believe that this person didn't remember for almost four months that he saw somebody walking in 12º weather...this is a rural area...it is not lighted and although I'm sure there are a few who might be out walking I suspect it is not the norm in February.

3) that the NHSP have some details and evidence as yet unrevealed which could alter our views of Maura's fate quite radically? I don't know about Peabody, but if LE have details or evidence they don't seem to be giving Maura's family much hope of anything from media reports.

More in line with your remarks about college kids needing a break and taking off for a while, I have had coworkers tell me that they too took off for a few days more than once while in college and that their sibling and friends did too...it would appear it is not that uncommon.
I'm curious as to why you bring up Petrit Varsi....I believe that even an administrator has decided that there could not have been involvement in the accident involving another UMASS student because of timing issues….I am left questioning why it is repeatedly implied that Maura was involved. Police in that case have never, to my knowledge, been able to determine whether he was hit by a car or thrown from a vehicle………..even Petrit isn’t sure…and we are left with his seemingly empty wallet…….The streets mentioned in articles about him are not on campus.

And, I have to go back to my belief that we have to stop treating adult missing persons cases as runaways initially. I was reading a story earlier about Molly Bish and was stuck by a couple of sentences:
MOLLY BISH



Police at first suspected that Molly had simply abandoned her post to go and hang out with her friends. But for people who knew Molly, that sounded almost impossible.



“She never would just leave her job. We knew it,” says Magi. “We knew. And I kept saying something is very wrong.”



Later that afternoon, when it finally became clear to police that Molly wasn't with her boyfriend or any of her buddies, they moved on to what they considered the next logical possibility. "They were saying she drowned and I was saying there's no possible way,” says her brother, John.



http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/01/48hours/main586143.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/01/48hours/main586143.shtml)

LE took the same approach with Brianna Maitland for months and whatever LE found out later, Brianna is now listed on the FBI's website.......there was a delay in even identifying the fact that Brianna was in the car, initially, LE said there was no sign of a struggle, but then VTSP actually did forensic tests on her car...NHSP released Maura's car within two weeks.

BRIANNA MAITLAND



Kellie Maitland is upset because state police have said they believe her daughter just took off. …..She doesn't understand why state police are treating this as a young woman taking off. http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/af2eddba5

Like Fred Murray and other family members, Molly's and Brianna's families did not believe their daughters took off.......no matter what LE told them. This happens all the time all over the country...

[gatetrekker44]

and I'll say it again-since Maura refused to go to Bruce Atwood's home to await LE (this by his own statement to LE) HOW is it that Maura's scent was supposedly tracked to his door 36 hours later? This has never made any sense to me since she supposedly stayed in the car while he was there and he never got into the vehicle? And as for the guy who supposedly "remembered" seeing someone resembling Maura four months later-I too would seriously question the veracity of this statement. And I can't see someone who is planning to disappear calling about room availability less than 10 hours before vanishing! And the whitewash investigation by LE-all of this leads me to believe foul play is involved-by person or persons unknown!

[Peabody]

So I wonder if,

1) you do believe the contractor sighting around 8pm the night of 2/9 was a for-real sighting of Maura?

Yes, based on the Rausches account of the call to the boyfriend's cell phone in which Maura sounded in distress, I THINK it is very likely that the contractor's sighting is for real.



2) that she got a ride afterwards either from an abductor or otherwise such that she survived that night and was the caller to Lt Rausch on Wed am?

Maura would have to have survived the night of 2/9 and 2/10 to have placed the call to the boyfriend on the very early morning of 2/11. So, yes, I believe she survived and that she was abducted the night of 2/9. If she had had access to a phone before 2/11, it is my opinion that she would have called the boyfriend then.



3) that the NHSP have some details and evidence as yet unrevealed which could alter our views of Maura's fate quite radically?

I have no idea of any type of evidence that may be unrevealed which could alter our views. Based on Lt. Scarinza's lack of cooperation with the media and the obvious shoddy investigation, my gut tells me that IF they had evidence that supported their theory of run away that IT would have already been revealed to the public. Yes, I know that Lt. Scarinza has been interviewed on Chronicle and for a few newspaper articles, has spoken at one or two press conferences and prepared the press release for the meeting with VT SP regarding Brianna and Maura. However, I do not believe that he has been quoted since the search in July. In fact, I know that numerous articles and some tv reports have specifically stated that NH SP had not returned their calls. In fact, on The Montel Show, there was some type of disclaimer in the show about NH SP being contacted for their side of the story, but refusing to reply.



4) that there was something else bothering or upsetting her which she intended to tell her Dad about at 3am Sunday morning when she damaged his car, that she intended to tell Lt Rausch about on Monday?

I have no idea if something was bothering Maura when she chose to not stay at her dorm room on 2/7 and drive to her dad's motel.......I have unsuccessfully been trying to find an article about the boyfriend talking with her after the first accident.....can't seem to locate it; maybe it was on tv or I have it wrong. But, we know that her Dad spent all day with her on Sunday and I am pretty sure that in an interview with the boyfriend that I recall him saying he talked with her after the 2/7 accident.



More in line with your remarks about college kids needing a break and taking off for a while, there is a comment in the early media stories from one of Maura's friends (Sara, I think) that her favorite movie was "Bottle Rocket" which my college age son tells me is about kids escaping and running away from their "normal" lives but in a harmless funny slapstick way.

hydemi, I really don't see the connection to a "favorite movie" and Maura running away EVEN when the movie's subject is running away. We all know that Fantasy and Reality are not remotely connected. Two of my favorite movies when I was about Maura's age were 'Love Story' and 'Brian's Song'. Although both of them were about a lover dying, I certainly never wanted to die or to have my fiance die.

Maura is known to have a great sense of humor. While I have never seen the movie 'Bottle Rocket', I will take your son's assessment at face value. Seems to me that his sheer definition of the movie would fit Maura's personality profile.

Believe me when I say that as a parent I have no axe to grind here other than some hope that she may after all be alive--that would be the best outcome whatever the tonnage of words on these websites.
I think that grassyknoll2 says it best for me and perhaps for the Murrays and the Rausches: the desire for there to be a thorough and complete investigation into Maura's missing - not assumptions, not theories, just good ole, painstaking investigation. Just believe those that love her: "She did not runaway" and if they are wrong, prove it.

I want Maura alive - can't even begin to fanthom how much more so her family and loved ones hope for the best. But, reality, is what they are asking for LE to determine. And, it just doesn't seem to me to be debatable that NH LE refuses to acknowledge that it is REAL POSSIBILITY that there may be a criminal behind Maura's missing.

[silver]

Originally Posted by Chavon

"This sounds like someone to me who was completely bent on escaping from yet another emotionally draining episode given her past history."



Do you know Maura? Just what does "given her past history" mean?

[hydemi]

Dear Peabody,

Accepting as valid both the contractor sighting around 8pm of 2/9 and the phone call to Lt Rausch thirty six hours later on the am of 2/11 are extremely important details--they pretty much eliminate the hypothermia and/or suicide theories on the night of 2/9.

I believe the item you are remembering about the phone conversation of Lt Rausch with Maura during the day on 2/8 is best recounted in the Caledonian Record on 2/27/04 which you can look up but I will quote the relevant part here, as once again Mrs. Rausch is the source:

"Sharon Rausch said, 'it's obvious to us something has happened to distress her.'

She said Murray had called Bill Feb. 8 and was crying because of the previous Saturday accident (sic-3am Sunday morning), though he didn't feel that was it.

'He told her on a scale of 1 to 10, it was only a 3 or 4,' she said. 'He had to talk to her for a long time to calm her down. We are convinced something happened at school and her Amherst friends know.'"

Without the personal knowledge of Maura shared by family & friends, I too believe that "something happened at school" which was deeply distressing and upsetting to Maura, which she had been unable to communicate to anyone as of 2/8 or 2/9, which she may have been intending to communicate as she drove to Hadley in her Dad's new Toyota around 3am when that accident occurred and evidently afterwards she still could not mention the troubling thing either to her Dad on 2/8 or to Lt Rausch during this phone call on 2/8.

As her Amherst friends all say in the media articles, she was a girl who kept things very much to herself, not even telling her friend Sara Alfieri on 2/8 about the accident in the Toyota that had occurred after she left Sara's dorm room early in the wee hours Sunday morning.

If her Amherst friends know or knew what this was, it still has not been made public, and it now appears according to a post by Modi 1 on the mauramurray.com website that the U Mass police are not releasing further documents or info to Mr Murray--so finding out what happened to her at U Mass may be as hard as finding her in Northern New Hampshire until there is finally some new lead or a crack in this case.

We agree that a brand new investigation is needed, unless a heck of a lot more is happening behind the scenes with NHSP or U Mass police than we know or happened during 2004.

[Peabody]

According to the Montel Website:

http://www.montelshow.com/show/upcoming.htm

His show 'Vanished' which features the stories of Maura Murray, Janis Stavros, Brooke Wilburger and Jason Jolkowski will re-air on Thursday March 24.



To find the channel and time of airing in your area go to

http://www.montelshow.com/misc/where_2_watch.htm



Let us all send an email to Montel's producers thanking them for their continued efforts on the behalf of these missing persons.

j_tuttle@montelshow.com

k_forman@montelshow.com


As Montel stated in the first airing of the show "Someone, somewhere knows something." Perhaps, one of the airings of this show will be the lightening rod that brings that "someone" forward.

[Peabody]

The following information was posted March 29 on the Maura Murray website www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/) – I find it most disturbing; if I was a citizen of NH or adjacent state, I know that I would be extremely alarmed, especially with all of the missing persons and unsolved murders.



‘From today's Springfield Republican newspaper: "Manchester, NH. - The list of convicted sexual offenders who live or work in New Hampshire currently has 3,092 names and is lengthening at a rate of about 8 percent per year, officials say." "The roster is expanding because offenders convicted years ago are added to it as they are released from prison, said Lt. Brian L. Hester, who has oversight of the register maintained by state police”. ‘


Do your math - At a rate of 8%, there will be over 240 additional sex offenders added this year! :doh:

[CyberLaw]

I buy a caling card number 1234567, with a pin access number of 22222.

I want to phone a relative in California. I have to phone the access number 1-888-888-8888, this number is the Calling Card Central number.

So with my calling card in hand I call 1-888-888-8888, I punch in my card number 1234567 and my pin access number of 22222.

I am then authorized to make the call to California.

So yes, the originating number can be traced backwards. I am not sure through a landline, but I know through a cell phone it can. Most likely it can be used for a landline also.

The actual place that the calling card was bought cannot be traced.

That is why if a calling card is used by lets just say for example, the Red Cross, it can be investigated and verified by LE as to where the original call was placed from.

Please, we don't live in the dark ages anymore we are alive and well in the age of information technology.

If you place a call through a public telephone, it can be determined to an exact location.

In the 2003, census of New Hampshire the total population is 1,287,687, up from 1,235,786 in 2000. An increase of 51,901 in three years.

So if you take the total population(2003) of 1,287,687 and divide it by the total number of sex offenders(current and released from prison) by 3,092.

1,138 are registered as offences against children. 1,954 people are registered sex offenders against adults.

Therefore 1,284,595 people are not criminals with a registered sex offender background living in New Hampshire.

See how things change when you take into account all of the facts and not just selective facts.

The above quoted article was specifically referencing crimes against children in regards to Jessica(R.I.P.) in Florida.

Parents were checking to see where the sex offenders live in say, Manchester. They want to know who is living besides them and their children.

I really don't see how it applies to the case of Maura, she is not a minor child.

If you don't give the WHOLE picture of a situation you cannot make an accurate assessement of THE WHOLE picture.

You can say that 20 people were arrested on DUI charges last year up from 10. That is a 50% increase. Wow. Shocking. Appalling.

But the total population that figure was taken from was 1,000,000.

So now it is 20 people out of a population of 1,000,000 that were arrested for DUI. That means 999,880 were not arrested for DUI. That would be the whole picture, not just a 50% increase.

[Peabody]

I buy a caling card number 1234567, with a pin access number of 22222.

I want to phone a relative in California. I have to phone the access number 1-888-888-8888, this number is the Calling Card Central number.

So with my calling card in hand I call 1-888-888-8888, I punch in my card number 1234567 and my pin access number of 22222.

I am then authorized to make the call to California.

So yes, the originating number can be traced backwards. I am not sure through a landline, but I know through a cell phone it can. Most likely it can be used for a landline also.

The actual place that the calling card was bought cannot be traced.

That is why if a calling card is used by lets just say for example, the Red Cross, it can be investigated and verified by LE as to where the original call was placed from.

Please, we don't live in the dark ages anymore we are alive and well in the age of information technology.

If you place a call through a public telephone, it can be determined to an exact location.

Amazing...........wow..........


Cyberlaw,

It is a fact that you are MISTAKEN about this issue - No one, including LE, can trace a call placed through a prepaid calling card UNLESS one has the calling card number 1234567 and pin access number of 22222. Any prepaid call can be traced back to the land line owned by the prepaid calling card company, but this land line number is merely the number through which the call was routed, not the location from where the call originated. To determine the origin of the call, in other words, to determine the actual address from where the call originated, one must have the calling card number and pin number. This is what was being referring to on the Maura Murray website www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/) when it was posted that the call could not be traced. Unfortunately, The Murray family does not have the prepaid calling card information necessary to trace the call - I am sure they have the number of the incoming call which was the number that the call was routed through. But, without the calling card number 1234567 and pin 22222, the routing number is a dead end other than telling them which company owned the callling card.

It is possible to trace a prepaid calling card call back to its company of origin through incoming cell or land line phone records. However, I repeat, it is not possible to determine the origin (physical location and address) of the calling card call UNLESS one has the calling card number and pin information. I suggest that you confirm this with any informed and educated law enforcement agency.

You are CORRECT that if the American Red Cross was using a prepaid calling card, LE, or anyone such as the Murrays, could obtain this infomation for a trace to determine if the call that the boyfriend recieved originated with them. I feel confident that since the family was told it was ARC, that this is something they followed up on. After learning that LE never checked on Maura's cell phone calls, I would be shocked if the family leaves any stone unturned.

I will leave this internet search up to you; but I know that I read somewhere that the boyfriend's mother confirmed that the call did not come from ARC....hopefully, that information was not in the numerous posts that were deleted from this site, and you will be able to confirm this to your satisfaction.

And yes, you are also CORRECT that any call from a payphone can be traced back to it's origin. But, I am left wondering why you would think that there is a possibility that a call could not be traced through a land line, but definitely through a cell phone? A payphone is a landline! :confused:

[CyberLaw]

Please note the following:

While he was at the airport waiting to catch a flight out of Oklahoma, Rausch said he received a call on his cell phone in which all he heard was someone breathing. The call, he said, was traced to a calling card.

Note it says calling card, not pre-paid calling card.

Again:

Family members and friends also are upset with no information coming from someone who placed a calling card call to Bill Rausch's cell phone as he was waiting to fly out of Oklahoma Feb. 11 to come search for his girlfriend.

However, Scarinza said that angle has been eliminated because investigators traced the calling card to the American Red Cross officials who had been attempting to contact Bill Rausch.

So again, investigators can trace a calling card associated with a particular organization, it is not a pre-paid calling card .

So please note the difference between a calling card registered to a particular organization like the Red Cross and a pre-paid calling card.

In all of the newspaper articles, it quotes a calling card. A calling card is billed, it is not pre-paid.

Organizations issue calling cards to employees and can verify a)who has a particular card b)all of the details of where the call originated from.

You are CORRECT that if the American Red Cross was using a prepaid calling card, LE, or anyone such as the Murrays, could obtain this infomation for a trace to determine if the call that the boyfriend recieved originated with them.

Tell me how on earth would people with no legal authority, legal resources or likewise determine who has a particular calling card within a large organization like the Red Cross. LE could, the Murray's could not.

All LE has to do is trace back wards from Point B to Point A to determine what card was used to place the call.

So the confustion being that it was not a pre-paid calling card, but a calling card that was issued to an employee within the Red Cross Organization.

I have a calling card for my home phone that I use if I make a Long Distance call when I am not home.

I don't have to pay full rate, I pay for my call on the road as if I was at home using my long distance plan.

I don't know of any company that does not issue calling cards to mobile employees, especially within a large organization like the Red Cross.

So I sure would like to know how the Murray's determined that the call did not come from the Red Cross, I really would like to know that. Especially when they would have no details of the number of cards, who has said cards, how many employees and what the originating number was, as the number would only be listed on a cell phone bill as incoming, not a specific number. It is not like the Murray's can trace phone numbers and calling cards. Not a chance.

So again LE has the investigative resources to determine who made the call the Murray's don't.

That is why I very much doubt the "Murray story....again."

[Peabody]

Please note the following:

While he was at the airport waiting to catch a flight out of Oklahoma, Rausch said he received a call on his cell phone in which all he heard was someone breathing. The call, he said, was traced to a calling card.

Note it says calling card, not pre-paid calling card.

Again:

Family members and friends also are upset with no information coming from someone who placed a calling card call to Bill Rausch's cell phone as he was waiting to fly out of Oklahoma Feb. 11 to come search for his girlfriend.

However, Scarinza said that angle has been eliminated because investigators traced the calling card to the American Red Cross officials who had been attempting to contact Bill Rausch.

So again, investigators can trace a calling card associated with a particular organization, it is not a pre-paid calling card .

So please note the difference between a calling card registered to a particular organization like the Red Cross and a pre-paid calling card.

In all of the newspaper articles, it quotes a calling card. A calling card is billed, it is not pre-paid.

Organizations issue calling cards to employees and can verify a)who has a particular card b)all of the details of where the call originated from.

You are CORRECT that if the American Red Cross was using a prepaid calling card, LE, or anyone such as the Murrays, could obtain this infomation for a trace to determine if the call that the boyfriend recieved originated with them.

Tell me how on earth would people with no legal authority, legal resources or likewise determine who has a particular calling card within a large organization like the Red Cross. LE could, the Murray's could not.

All LE has to do is trace back wards from Point B to Point A to determine what card was used to place the call.

So the confustion being that it was not a pre-paid calling card, but a calling card that was issued to an employee within the Red Cross Organization.

I have a calling card for my home phone that I use if I make a Long Distance call when I am not home.

I don't have to pay full rate, I pay for my call on the road as if I was at home using my long distance plan.

I don't know of any company that does not issue calling cards to mobile employees, especially within a large organization like the Red Cross.

So I sure would like to know how the Murray's determined that the call did not come from the Red Cross, I really would like to know that. Especially when they would have no details of the number of cards, who has said cards, how many employees and what the originating number was, as the number would only be listed on a cell phone bill as incoming, not a specific number. It is not like the Murray's can trace phone numbers and calling cards. Not a chance.

So again LE has the investigative resources to determine who made the call the Murray's don't.

That is why I very much doubt the "Murray story....again."
I am going by what Sharon Rausch, the mother of the boyfriend wrote and is copied below; she specifically states that they knew it was a pre-paid calling card AND that the American Red Cross NEVER had her son's cell phone number or the need to speak to him, and that they never called him later.

You may "doubt the Murray story", but I choose to believe the people who are involved, in this case, specifically Mrs. Rausch - it is very possible that the boyfriend and LE chose to leave off the adjective "pre-paid"......I don't think too many people make that differientation on calling cards or on pre-paid cell phones, they just simply say calling cards or cell phones:

information below is copied with permission from the moderator at www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com):

"From the press accounts and interviews, Lt. Rausch received a cell call and voice msg on Wed morn 2/11/04 while going thru the metal detector at the Okla City airport on his way back to Boston from Ft Sill.

By the time he turned on his phone again there was a message without any verbal content but sounds of breathing, sniffing, crying?

He was quoted as saying he felt sure it was Maura.

Even in November Mrs. Rausch says the same when commenting on the failure of police to follow up Maura's cellphone call to Mrs Salamone and the condos in Bartlett on the afternoon of 2/9.

Both my son and I believe that the sounds on the call were made by Maura


The press stories quote Det. Scarinza as saying the call was traced to a calling card number belonging to the American Red Cross. Later he says to an American Red Cross official.

So the calling card number became a dead end.

Yet the family (Mrs Rausch?) states that they have not been able to verify this, or talk to any ARC person who made this phone call to Lt Rausch.

It is not true that we have been unable to verify this: we were told on Wednesday 2/11 evening in the Haverhill Police Station by NH SP Det. Todd Landry that the call came from The American Red Cross. I disputed that information at the time by saying that they had never been given my son's cell phone number. The American Red Cross was called late evening Tuesday 2/10 *after* we learned of Maura's missing. The purpose of the call was to aid us in procuring Emergency Leave for my son to go to NH to search for Maura. ARC took my contact information and my son's commanding officer's information. They did not ask for nor receive any personal information regarding him. They have never called him.

Upon my return to OH, numerous individuals and agencies offered their assistance to us. OH LE was given the prepaid calling card number. After 2 weeks of extensive research, both OH LE and a private investagator told me that unless I had the acutal calling card information: the numbers that are entered when making the call plus the name of the merchant: ie ATT, US Postmaster, Walmart, etc, that THERE IS NO WAY TO TRACE THE LOCATION FROM WHICH A CALL IS MADE FROM A PREPAID CALLING CARD; that the number that shows up on caller ID is simply one of hundreds of thousands of numbers purchased by various calling card companies.....I was actually told that because these calls cannot be traced, criminals know to use them to be protected from prosecution.....Fred Murray used other resources to confirm this information. Therefore, we have another example of misinformation from NH SP.


Given the poor record of followup on at least the cell call to Mrs Salamone from Maura's phone (a joint cell account with Lt Rausch?), I have a few questions which may have already been answered.
Again I realize these rocks may already have been turned over.

1) How would the ARC or an ARC person have Lt Rausch's cell number?

They did not have it - please see my earlier remarks in this post.

2) Do both Lt Rausch and Mrs Rausch or other family members still believe that this message & noises recorded could have been Maura?

I certainly fear that it was Maura.

3) Did the cell carrier (could they?) actually trace the physical location of the call, not just the calling card number of the ARC?
as mentioned in the earlier remarks in this post, it is not possible to trace the physical location of a prepaid calling card without all of the information printed on the calling card


4) Has the voice message been saved, recorded, studied by another investigative person than the NHSP?

Yes, by OH LE and a PI. The message was deleted by my son when we learned it could not be traced. In order to save any message, his cell phone service requires listening to it every 10 days. He chose to delete the blood chilling message rather than being repeatedly exposed to the agony of hearing what he believes to be Maura and at a loss to help her.
I know this was a mistake, but he is young and felt that saving the message was of no benefit.


5) Maura was a nursing student at the UMass School of Nursing. Would she have interned or had ARC instruction, guide info, emergency card, or any knowledge of a freebie calling card number for public use?

I had given Maura several prepaid callling cards in November prior to her disappearance. She also knew her father's prepaid calling information. We are certain that she did not have any calling card with a connection to the ARC. Even if she had, one must understand that we did not have the information needed to trace a prepaid calling card.

ARC provides free disaster and emergency service, being donor supported, unlike the Coast Guard who sends you a bill if you get lost off the coast in your powerboat.

This item was at least a hint that Maura might have been alive two days later, if she was the source of the call and somehow using the ARC number--although evidently unable to speak or leave a verbal message?

Why wouldn't the ARC person have left a verbal message?

Hydemi, we think alike. Your question about ARC leaving a message is exactly one of the questions that I asked of NH SP that Wednesday evening.........along with "Why have they not called back?"




Thanks to you all for your interest in Maura's case and especially for your prayers.


~Sharon Rausch
"Our help is from the Lord, who created heaven and earth." Psalm 24:8

[Grassyknoll2]

See how things change when you take into account all of the facts and not just selective facts.


The above quoted article was specifically referencing crimes against children in regards to Jessica(R.I.P.) in Florida.
I appears, that the article above got picked up by that paper (through AP, perhaps) from the Manchester Union Leader...there are several excerpts from this article as well as a link on the "Missing Sex Offenders" thread here on Websleuths. There are also articles from the Patriot Ledger on MA sex offenders and WCAX on the VT issues. In the full article, Jessica was certainly mentioned, but the way I read the article, it was talking about the problems inherent in tracking all sex offenders
Manchester Union Leader 3/26/05
Sexual offender list here growing
By Sunday News Staff

The list of convicted sexual offenders who reside or work in New Hampshire currently has 3,092 names and is lengthening at a rate of about 8 percent a year, according to Lt. Brian L. Hester, who has oversight of the register maintained by the state police.
The roster is expanding, Hester said, because offenders convicted years ago are added to it as they are released from prison, and because offenders relocate to New Hampshire from other states or reside in neighboring states but work here.
About two-thirds of the sexual offenders committed crimes against adults and the information about them in the register is restricted to law enforcement use, but the register also includes 1,138 people convicted of sexual crimes against children. Their identities are available to the public.

So why the heck was this misleading information posted on the website for Maura Murray when the articles are specificly aimed at parents of young children.

Again.........misleading, again, and again by this family in regards to Maura. Like I am soooooooo shocked.......not.
Do you know that a family member posted this information on Maura Murray's site?? It appears to me that perhaps the person who posted believes that something happened to Maura. Regardless, the article presented the statistics that you believe are misleading...not the poster and not the Murrays...and you're right, perhaps they should have mentioned the overall population to give readers a better idea of the situation.

I am going to ask a very dangerous question here: But do you now see what I am talking about with regards to information provided by the "family".

If you don't give the WHOLE picture of a situation you cannot make an accurate assessement of THE WHOLE picture.
I agree that if you don't give the WHOLE pictue of a situation you cannot make an accurate assment of THE WHOLE pictue...I also agree, as I believe I have in the past, that the same statistics can show very different pictures depending on how they are stated. I found the articles on the "Missing Sexual Offenders" thread interesting and a bit unnerving. When I was looking for the article on Maura's site, I saw another article that says that there 11 "registered" sex offenders in Haverhill, NH...sadly, more sex offenders in that Town than there are police officers when they are at full compliment which it appears they weren't in January of 2004. "Chief Williams said he is presently up to six officers hired but there are only four working presently."...."Major incidents in 2003 included 31 felony cases sent to the County Attorneys office; there are 11 registered sex offenders living in our Town, 18 inactive files." ...... "Haverhill is not a sleepy, quiet, little town anymore. There are bad people going through this town, there is a lot of crime. It is not so much a population increase, it is the nature of the population; there are a lot of transient people that live in this town that bring crime with them and you know this, you’ve seen the statistics." There is much more discussed in this article which will give you a sense of what LE faces in this Town. I don't know what the cost of living is in NH, but they sure do seem underpaid and given the staffing levels they must be working a lot of overtime. They also appear to be hampered by inadequate radio equipment. You can read this on www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com) or at the following link: http://www.town.haverhill.nh.us/Budget%20Advisory%20Minutes/11904-townbudget.html (http://www.town.haverhill.nh.us/Budget%20Advisory%20Minutes/11904-townbudget.html)

[diglit]

CyberLaw...I, too, don't understand your negativity towards the Murray family. You seem to have access to a lot of information which the rest of the forum members don't. It would be great if you could use your knowledge and energy to help find Maura. If you think that she wanted to disappear, and you know how desperately her family is trying to find her, why not try to find her yourself. Family members are ill and are grieving; Maura isn't aware of any illness. If you could locate her, and confirm that you won't tell anyone where she is, then relay the message of a family illness, perhaps she would consider contacting them. If you're not willing to help, I don't understand why you bother continuing to read and to post. You're the only negative person in the forum. I don't see the point. If you really believe that Maura disappeared on her own, then why let this forum take up your time? Just say, OK, she left because she wanted to, the family doesn't accept that, and I don't care. Let it be. Perhaps you can help another family with their loss.

[gatetrekker44]

I too had previously questioned CyberLaw's tactics and motivations regarding negative posts. I don't know where CyberLaw is getting all this info-but I previously wondered if CyberLaw had a much deeper connection(like LE) than he/she is owning up to(just cause you're supposedly in Canada don't necessarily make it so!). And it would be great if that intellect was put to use trying to locate Maura instead of SLAMMING the Murray and Rausch families for their supposed shortcomings!

[pugsley]

I guess cyberlaw will never explain why he is so hostile towards this discussion.

Can someone confirm for me ( because the original posts were deleted) Did he (Cyber) say at one point in his life he packed up & took off & started a new life?

Thanks,
Pugsley

[Peabody]

I guess cyberlaw will never explain why he is so hostile towards this discussion.

Can someone confirm for me ( because the original posts were deleted) Did he (Cyber) say at one point in his life he packed up & took off & started a new life?

Thanks,
Pugsley
Pugsley,

I cannot confirm that Cyberlaw was a runaway, but in a post under Maura's thread he did state that he ran away. He referred to controlling parents as a reason and cited controlling parents and boyfriend as Maura's reason.

I have already acknowledged that I know people who have known Maura since she was a child. They assure me that Maura's parents and boyfriend are not controlling types of individuals. Yet I recall Cyberlaw posting that Maura ranway to get away from these controlling people.

Perhaps there is someone who has saved all of the postings regarding Maura and would be willing to copy his post about him running away.

I remain steadfast that Cyberlaw must have a reason (other than his differing opinion of what has happened to Maura) for being so negative towards Maura's plight that he refuses to consider the posibility of foul play in her missing.

While I personally have a strong belief that something has happened to Maura, I hope against hope that I am wrong and that she is safe......I just cannot understand anyone (i.e. Cyberlaw) who does not admit to a personal connection to Maura but remains certain that she has forsaken every single person she knew to start a new life. Just doesn't make sense to me. :doh:

[pugsley]

Thanks Peabody.

I think I have a hunch as to why he is so bitter. But wanted to be sure I wasn't confusing him with someone else.

I don't think Maura ran away either. There were too many important things she left behind in the car. I also think she was trying to avoid being busted for DWI, which is why she might have taken the alcohol with her.

As far as controlling parents, I don't see it. Her father seems quite the opposite. And if your boyfriends controlling, you say buh-bye! Besides, she was complaining she didn't see him enough, I thought I read.

Pugsley

[CyberLaw]

With the millions upon tens of millions of dollars that the USA spends on Homeland Security every year, does it make sense that the fatal flaw in this entire “security” machine would be pre-paid calling cards. Any terrorist organization could use any card and avoid the tracing or detection thereof.

That the “bad guys” would use pre-paid calling cards knowing that the Government or “Homeland” security would be unable to track them at all.

That criminals and criminal organization would specifically use pre-paid calling cards to their advantage. That would be a huge “hole” in security and LE.

Kind of defeats the millions of dollars spent on security and leave Homeland Security futile.

From: //www.manishin.com/pressdocs/RCRwirelssNews033103.html

How are U.S. officials responding to surveillance obstacles posed by pay-as-you-go mobile phones, prepaid cards and other modern packaging of wireless access that gives terrorists and criminals virtually anonymity?

In some cases, industry support is critical.

Howard Segermark, head of the International Prepaid Communications Association, has worked with law enforcement since the 2001 terrorist attacks to educate agents. "We can help law enforcement if they don't know the name of a prepaid company," said Segermark. From there, law enforcement can acquire call detail records.

LE has the means, techniques, methods, technology and training to trace pre-paid phone cards.

They also have the co-operation of the entire pre-paid communication network.

Please note the following course is ONLY one of many resources available to people involved in LE.

The tracing of pre-paid calling card by people other than LE would be illegal.

It is specifically for LE and restricted to such.

www.telestrategies.com/leatraining/lea_webinar.cfm?Course=LEA3

The detection and identification of calls made with a prepaid card can be done using the methods covered in the webinar. This webinar will focus on all the ways prepaid cards are used by targets of investigation and discuss specific procedures to identify if a card is being used and how to reliably obtain call information from calls made on the card. Specific analytical techniques are covered using Microsoft Excel spreadsheets. Properly applied, these methods ensure that virtually no prepaid card calls can be lost to a determined investigator.

That is why I fully believe (rightly so) when LE traced the call from the Red Cross to the BF, it did so with the means, resources, technology and training available only to LE.

That is why when an average person off the street, says: But a person cannot trace pre-paid calls, they would be speaking as an "average person".

They do not have the sophistication and knowledge of a person who works within LE.

How did the Murray's determine that it was not one person within the entire Red Cross that called the BF.

The Murray’s would not have the resources to track down everyone and speak to them and asked them if they called.

They might have only spoken to one person whom they were in contact with, this one particular person did not call them, so they ASSUMED no one within the entire Red Cross did.

Call display would take care of any problem with the cell phone number.

When I think of contact information, the first thing would be “how do we relay a message to you, how would we get in "contact" with you.

Well call me on my cell phone, I will be travelling to NH.

That would be the purpose of a cell phone to reach you when you are mobile.

Just because the BF claims that he did not give his cell phone number to the Red Cross does not mean that no one did, or that this “contact” information was not relayed to others.

Or would he just tell them that he would call them ”while he is searching for Maura, but for them not to contact him and leave no number where he can be reached."

No it does not make sense. Especially when he is arranging emergency leave from his military position.

So when the BF states “that the call was from Maura”, there was a voice message, but now there is not, I find that very suspicious.

He was at the airport on his way to meet with the family and LE to “search” for Maura.

Would he not have given this “evidence” to LE at the first opportunity, like when he arrived in NH.

It would have been evidence to support his position.

But “unfortunately” he deleted information that could have helped him and supported his position that it was Maura calling.

I wonder why.........


Guess what….. any person working within LE would look at this with a raised eye-brow and a skeptical look on their face.
It is just an unsubstantiated claim, a story, without any evidence.

But of course that does not fit in with the “story” put forth by the “family” that LE is to blame for everything.

That they are not doing their jobs have bungled the investigation, etc.

All we have is the BF “belief” that the call was from Maura with no supporting evidence.

The belief could be "wishful" thinking that Maura called him, that she is in trouble, not that she choose to runaway from both him and the "family".

All the BF had to do was save the voice mail, he did not even have to listen to it again, just inform LE of its existence.

If there was a problem with the voice mail, they could contact the cell phone service provider.

So again this man has military training, college educated, and he deletes info that could help LE .

Nothing like working against the people who are trying to help you, then calling them incompetent and liars.

The Red Cross has pre-paid calling cards that are specific to their organization and can be identified as such.

So again, I look at "situations" with fact, not claims, stories, but facts, with common sense based in reality.

I again find the information “supplied” by this family as not truthful and factual.

Theyseem to only put forth information that supports their "story".

That the BF deleted the call because he could not “stand” to listen to it again, that he just “knows that the call cannot be traced therefore he deleted it. Does not make sense.........heck he only had to listen to it one time. Saved it. Informed LE. End of story.

BTW I am in no way shape or form involved in LE.


An adult as a self -actualization person can "leave" on their own accord to do whatever they want with their life.

They are now the adult-child of their parents. Adult being the opertive word.

They not under the care, supervision and control of Mom and Dad.

Unfortunately, some parents and family members do not like this.

They still try to control their adult children and make decisions for them.

They still see their 18+ year old "child" as a child. Not the adult which they are.

The adult can make any decision they want in regards to their own adult life.

It is up to the adult to decide what they want to do for their own well being, notwithstanding what the 'family" feels they should or should not do.

That means if you want to ditch your family, friends and co-workers to start a new life. No one can stop you and you are free to make that CHOICE for yourself.

That means that if you never ever want to contact your family again(except by your own choice) you are free to do so in a free society.

Hopefully your family will not "track and hunt" you down because they feel that you should not have ditched them, that you should not have made the choice to leave them, not contact them and speak to them.

Heck if that was the case, you would not have left anyways without informing your "family" where you are.

Sort of defeats the purpose of "running away" does it not.

If we lived in a perfect world, with perfect families, perfect people, perfect jobs, perfect co-workers, perfect children, perfect Mothers, perfect personalities, perfect character, perfect Fathers, perfect siblings, perfect credit, perfect boyfriends, perfect girlfriends, then adult children would not "ditch" their parents and families and jobs to "start a new life on their own terms."

Again it is the choice of the adult to do what they feel is in the best interest of their life.

Also there is a significant amount of research that adult parents "ditch" their adult children and families.

So yes, in a free society people can CHOOSE to "ditch" whomever they want to.

Sometimes people just needs a 'break" from their "loved" ones.

If that break is one week, one year or 10 years, it is still the decision of the adult to determine the time frame.

The adult child has no legal obligation to inform their "loved ones" where they are, unless the adult child so chooses.

Some 800K adults each year in the USA make this choice.

They are in control of their own life and make their own decisions.

Sometimes they feel they are left no choice but to "runaway" from their "loved ones" for the sake of their own life and well being.

[Peabody]

If you do your research, you will learn that the boyfriend INFORMED the FBI and the NH SP of the phone call AS SOON as he received it.

If you also take the time to research, you will find that the boyfriend did not erase the message until MONTHS AFTER the call was received. It is my understanding that once his family and the Murray family confirmed the call could not be traced, he deleted the message. Granted, this was not a wise thing to do.

What you say about a "hole" in security makes sense, but I called my own county sheriff. His office said that this is an issue because criminals are indeed using prepaid calling cards to make calls during the commission of criminal activity.

I suggest that anyone reading this do the same: call your local LE and inquire if they can trace a call from a prepaid calling card WITHOUT the calling card number or pin number.

IF you are told it can be done, please ask how and forward the information to the email address at www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)

It would be a wonderful thing to be able to confirm or rule out that Maura made the mystery call.

[lady-eowyn]

You know Cyberlaw I agree with you to a point...sometimes people DO just want to pick up and move on with their lives without their family...BUT, and that's a big BUT...I think we have a duty to make sure that isn't the case when people are missing. If everyone took that attitude would anyone every look for missing adults?

[LillyRush]

Cyberlaw, What is it exactly about this case that makes you jump all over it pointing out the reasons why it's so clear to you that she walked away? I mean, really there are tons of cases that have circumstances as unclear as Maura's and yet I don't see you looking all over the forum to find those people's cases and comment about how they too must have just walked. So, what is it? Why Maura's case?

[gatetrekker44]

to explain how the tracking dogs traced Maura's scent to Bruce Atwood's property and then LOST it when by Bruce's own statement to LE Maura WOULD NOT GO WITH HIM(he states she stayed with the car to await AAA) and he supposedly never got into Maura's vehicle. If you have enough of someone's scent on you for dogs to track it then you would need to have more than a passing contact with that individual-you would either need to be in contact with something they owned(like sitting in their car) OR be CARRYING something of theirs like a coat, blanket, etc. Is there anyone out there familiar enough with tracking dogs to explain how this could be? I am studying Forensic Biology and it doesn't seem possible under the scenario that Bruce Atwood gave to LE!

[Grassyknoll2]

Quite frankly, I've always been curious how LE found out so quickly that it was the Red Cross calling Maura's boyfriend's cell phone when it took weeks (with all kinds of information offered by family) to find out who had called Maura the Thursday before. The following indicates that Haverhill PD is not the most technologically advanced agnecy...it is a small town, population wise...they are understaffed (they should have 10 officers according to Chief Williams, consider 7 a full compliment, and it would appear at the time of Maura's disappearance they had four, including the chief working shifts covering 24/7. Perhaps they allowed the FBI to look into the calling card for them, but I think they had an answer prior to the FBI involvement....

The following will give you an idea of the problems faced by LE in Haverhill, NH when Maura disappeared........in addition to which, IMO, they are grossly underpaid...the following are quotes by Chief William of the Haverhill PD taken from a budget advisory committee meeting held January 19, 2004...about three weeks before Maura disappeared.

We developed a plan for our new base station communications and you are going to see that in this year’s budget; we are presently operating our radio system off a mobile radio at the Town Highway Garage and the communications with our radios is spotty at best and sometimes an officer can’t communicate with dispatch or vise versa.




Chief Williams said he is presently up to six officers hired but there are only four working presently. One officer has graduated the academy and is in the field training program which is 16 weeks where he rides along and is taught the hands on aspects of the job; he is presently half way through that. The other officer is in his third week at the Police Academy so we won’t see him until March. He has already completed the field training phase so when he gets out of the academy in March, he will be able to start right in and take a cruiser shift by himself.

http://www.town.haverhill.nh.us/Budget%20Advisory%20Minutes/11904-townbudget.html (http://www.town.haverhill.nh.us/Budget%20Advisory%20Minutes/11904-townbudget.html) 1/19/04

Over a year later, it would seem their communication problems are not resolved.


TALK TO ME TROOPER!!

Frank and Earnest think the New Hampshire State Police is a pretty up-to-date organization, but the other day one of the boys saw a trooper come through town and wave at a Haverhill officer who was in the black and white HPD cruiser. The officer waved back and on their way they went. Seems that the two did not communicate by radio because the state cruisers cannot talk to the locals and the locals can't talk to them because they ain't on the same frequency.

http://www.northcountrynewsnh.com/web_pages_00000c.htm (http://www.northcountrynewsnh.com/web_pages_00000c.htm) 4/9/05

[watchingeye]

I am tired of the LONG posts to prove why Maura isn't "Missing" by means beyond her control. If posts can't be respectful of readers here-why place them? They don't all need to be of the same opinion-but without respect there is NO place for you here.

[JrZyChris]

Hi all,

I don't feel that Cyberlaw's posts are disrespectful. I do feel that there is some controversy raised by the contents of the postings - however this is par for the course on a public forum.

Yes, we need to realize that there are family members and loved ones reading these posts on a daily, if not hourly basis.

I hope we all realize this each and every time we want to jump up and BLURT lol, have done it myself, and *try* to maintain control now :doh:

[CyberLaw]

Talk about disrespect. Enough said. I am Canadian.


Well the call was traced to the Red Cross.

That makes me very unlikely to even further consider the voice mail.

If you can give me factual reasons (not beliefs) for feeling that the Police have ANYTHING, SOMETHING to gain by lying about the call coming from the Red Cross, please do

So LE duly traces the call, it could be from Maura after all..

That would be extremely important because after all everyone is looking for her.
.
It does not make sense for LE to say the call was from the Red Cross, if it was from Maura.

I am confused about that. What would LE gain by lying and why?

If the call did come from Maura, (lets just suppose) then don't you think that LE would be the first one to say that the call was traced to a phone that could have even been used by Maura and followed up on it.

They did trace the call after all in the hopes that it was Maura.

They do want to get Maura back with like her family, do they not.

The Murray's have not been able to, nor can they LEGALLY trace pre-paid phone cards.

Leave it up to LE, they are the only ones who can legally use this information and have the co-operation of the industry.

Not even a P.I. can do it legally.

I suggest that anyone reading this do the same: call your local LE and inquire if they can trace a call from a prepaid calling card WITHOUT the calling card number or pin number.


Please.....why don't we just ask the Police for access to their computers also.?

You see I don't break the law, because tracing pre-paid phone cards again for the average person is ILLEGAL.

Sorry, but I don't even know if Police actually even acknowledge that this is possible.

It has all to do with security....and not being anonymous.


to explain how the tracking dogs traced Maura's scent to Bruce Atwood's property.

If I remember correctly, the scent was traced to the road in front of the Bus Driver's property.

It was not on his property, his front lawn or front door.

That road would be public. The scent was not traced to any private residence.

Also Maura was seen 4-5 miles away, an hour later after the accident, avoiding a passing car, on foot.

So please......why are you still on the "bus driver".

There are different types of dogs trained in different"scent" areas.

But I did find that enviornmental factors affect a dog's tracking ability as to the type scent and what they are trained in.

Apparently a dog tracked Laci's scent etc to Berkley Marina 11 days after.

It was a Cadever dog.

Mark G was trying to discredit the dog, but this dog was not trained to find live people.

http://www.montanasearchdogs.com/faq/about_search_dogs.htm#What%20is%20a%20wilderness%2 0search%20dog (http://www.montanasearchdogs.com/faq/about_search_dogs.htm#What%20is%20a%20wilderness%2 0search%20dog)?

No one and for all, I am not LE in North America.

Occum's Razor - one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required
to explain anything.

[gatetrekker44]

at Maura's website tonite-I did not realize that the "witness" who came forward several months later claiming to have see Maura 4-5 miles down the road from the crash site lived at the same spot where the tracking dogs lost Maura's scent. I knew Bruce Atwood(the bus driver) lived there, but didn't know about the "witness". Which begs the question-with all the activity going on in the area at the beginning of the investigation, it seems extremely implausable that this guy would "forget" for several months that he had supposedly seen Maura miles down the road on the day she disappeared.

So a couple of questions:

One-has this person's name ever been disclosed?

Two-did this guy ACTUALLY see Maura-or is he trying to deflect attention fom his home and property by claiming to have seen Maura miles away?

Three-if he lives as close to the area where the dogs lost the scent-was his property ever searched-and was he one of the locals complaining about the searchers coming onto their propery?

Just more ??-wish we could get Fred and Sharon some real answers!


Bring Maura home!

[Peabody]

at Maura's website tonite-I did not realize that the "witness" who came forward several months later claiming to have see Maura 4-5 miles down the road from the crash site lived at the same spot where the tracking dogs lost Maura's scent. I knew Bruce Atwood(the bus driver) lived there, but didn't know about the "witness". Which begs the question- <snip>So a couple of questions:

One-has this person's name ever been disclosed?

Two-did this guy ACTUALLY see Maura-or is he trying to deflect attention fom his home and property by claiming to have seen Maura miles away?

Three-if he lives as close to the area where the dogs lost the scent-was his property ever searched-and was he one of the locals complaining about the searchers coming onto their propery?

Just more ??-wish we could get Fred and Sharon some real answers!


Bring Maura home!
To my knowledge the Witness' name has never been released to the public.
Of course, the local citizens and the Murray's know him.

I do know for a certainty that when he was inteviewed by the family the Sunday following the accident that he (along with all of the other neigbors excepting the school bus driver) reported that the police had not spoken with him. He also said he was home that night watching tv and that he did not hear or see anything.....having grown up in a rural community, I think that is strange: it has been confirmed by the Murray family that there were fire engines, emts, tow truck and LE at the scene....., yet a very close resident notices nothing........:confused: :confused: :confused:

this is very unlike like any rural community with which I am familiar: all of the neigbors would have been at their windows and would not have left until the *business* was completed.....seems the neighbors around the accident site are definitely not nosy people.....quite a bit of very bad luck for Maura.

The witness lives diagonally across the road from the schoolbus driver.

His yard is strewn with toys, but his children do not live with him.

I have always ***wondered*** that if Maura was scared of the schoolbus driver that perhaps she went to the door of the home that she perceived would be a ***safe*** refuge: ie, the home of small children.:waitasec:

As always, lots of questions and SPECULATION, but no REAL answers.

[PrayersForMaura]

I don't believe enough has been done to thoroughly search the area or from house to house for poor Maura :(

[gatetrekker44]

in this case-not the least of which is searching properties in the general area where Maura disappeared. I can understand, up to a point, folks not wanting large groups of people running around on their property. HOWEVER, anyone who claims months later to have supposedly seen Maura, and it just so happens that this person lives right where the tracking dogs lost the scent, should give LE at least the idea that they should search this person's property and home. But of course, since LE won't even acknowledge the fact that a crime has been committed, gives them the "out" of not doing much of anything! And before anyone out there starts up with the "voluntarily missing" jive, with the number of young women missing and later found murdered in this area over a span of years, to keep sticking to the "wanting to get away from it all" line just doesn't cut it anymore! :banghead:


Bring Maura home!

[Peabody]

Websleuth's very own Boxerz has created a map of Missing Persons and Unsolved Murders in New Hampshire and Vermont............

Thank You Boxerz :clap:

Boxerz's Map can be viewed at
http://community-2.webtv.net/SilkyBoxerz/MissingPersons/

Currently there are 16 Missing and an unbelieveable 53 Unsolved Murders.

Can anyone confirm that these are very high numbers for such a sparsely populated area?

Every loved one of these missing and murdered need and deserve answers!

[curious1]

I have been reading this particular discussion off and on for months and there is something that has bothered me.

On several occasions people have brought up the fact that Maura left on her own and was depressed and she had alcohol with her so she may have gone off hiking on her own to 'disappear' or die. As one who use to suffer from moderate to severe depression let me say from personal experience I often went off by myself on the weekends. During college it was not unusual for me to leave for a weekend to stay at the beach for the mountains by myself (and maybe a bottle or 2 of Baileys) and just get away. I would just tell my roomate, I'm going somewhere for the weekend. I would not even phone my parents to let them know I would not be at my apartment. If I had had not returned from one of these little excursions and they called my parents to ask if it was like me to just disappear for days at a time they would say no. I never attempted suicide, I just felt so overwhelmed by things. I still get overwhelmed, but I no longer just disappear for days at a time. I have read too many crime forums and seen too many true crime stories to ever do that again. I tell my husband exactly where I am going and most of the times what route I am taking when I leave home now.

My point is just because someone is and adult and depressed and wants to get away for a weekend or a week just once or often, don't just say he/she was depressed and wanted to either disappear or die. If someone had abducted me during one of my excursions it saddens me to think that people would have just said oh well, she obviously wanted to get away so no need to look for her. Yes I wanted to get away, but not permenantly!

I just feel very strongly that she slid off the road and got out at some point and time and that someone came down the road and hit her. I remember reading that during the investigation several law enforcement officers were almost hit while standing in the road near the car. So the witnesses say they didn't notice anyone pull up. How much attention were they really paying to everything? I just really really feel that she was hit, someone freaked out, put her in their car thinking she was dead. When they went to dispose of the body she wasn't dead, but it was too late they were already commited. If she lived she would tell people what happened so it just snowballed from there.

That's just my 2 cents worth.:)

My thoughts go out to her family and friends, may they have closure someday soon.

[CyberLaw]

To obtain a Search Warrant, you have to have probable cause.

A crime had to have been committed or evidence that somehow a person(s) was involved in a crime.

A Judge reviews this Application for a Search Warrant, to ensure that it reaches the threshold of probable cause.

The Judge then if so warranted, signs a search warrant.

It is not a blanket Search Warrant it is specific.

A dog losing a scent on a public road in the general area of a voluntarly disappearance is not even close.

Since no crime has been committed, no evidence of a crime has been committed, there can be no searching "legally" of properties or homes.

LE knows this of course.

Remember several "area residents" took exception with the Murray et al(family members, relatives, friends, volunteers, media, reporters, dogs, dog handlers) trapsing uninvited and without permission and/or consent on private
property.

The ends do not justify the means.

No one is above the law even when a "daughter" goes missing

If I am enjoying a nice quiet morning in my quiet rural home in my own house that I paid for on land that I own only to find 1-40 trapsing all over MY land, yes, I would be EXTREMELT upset.

After all it is PRIVATE PROPERTY owned and paid for by ME. I don't even know these people!!!!

The were not "invited" guests.

Especially when a "search" of my property is illegal and there is no indication that I have any idea what happened to Maura.

Am I now a suspect.........because I take exception to "unknown people violating my rights to property and privacy."

LE is not going to invest any more time and resources to a case that has no indications of foul play.

LE is not going to acknowledge a crime has been committed without supporting evidence.

No evidence of a crime.......then how can you say a crime has been committed.

it is not called an "out" it is called reality.

I don't find it unsual the "number" of women missing or murdered over A NUMBER of years in New Hampshire. This dates back 20-30 years. Please.......

Where I live, there are runaways, unsolved murders of women, women "missing", so it is not unusual.

These date back from the 1950's to present.

Are all of these unsolved murders, women missing for the last 55 years related, because they are within 100-500 miles of each other.

Please......

The "witness" is in the clear. He was returning or in an area 20 miles away when Maura had her "accident".

He was not even in the area. Can't be in two places at the same time.

Logical and plausible explanation for the delay in reporting to LE that he saw Maura.

My question is: In the US, when EMT and Fire Trucks are at a scene of a single vehicle car accident, with no Fire and no "injured person" do they normally wait there for a Fire or an "injured person" for an hour or so?

I know in my Country they would not, they may be needed elsewhere, or they go back to the Stationhouse to await another Emergency call.

Why stand around in the cold at night if your "services" are not required.

That would explain why the "witness" did not see the EMT and Fire truck. They were gone by the time he got home, which was an hour after the "accident".

Doesn't he live "around" the corner from the "accident"?

I know the bus driver could not see the "accident scene" from his front window, which is around a bend in the road.

It seem that the people in this area, want their peace and privacy and want to be left alone.

Don't blame them, why else would you live in such a rural area.

[Peabody]

It seem that the people in this area, want their peace and privacy and want to be left alone.

Don't blame them, why else would you live in such a rural area.

I live in a rural area and IF someone came up missing here, the people would not stop looking nor would they care if other people looked........

I guarantee that if our local volunteer fire department, volunteer emts and county LE (with very limited resources) arrived at the scene of an accident and the driver was missing, the search would start immediately and other resources would be called in asap if the missing party was not found in a timely manner - a search would not be delayed for 36 hours.

I also know that there are many, many local citizens in the area still looking for Maura and are very concerned about what has happened to her. One woman who grew up in this rural part of NH and has daughters Maura's age has become overwhelmed with fear for both she and her daughters BECAUSE, in her opinion, the police are not looking for someone that has harmed Maura. IT is her belief that foul play is involved.

As to people wanting their "peace" they should be very concerned if there is an abductor or murderer either in their midst or traveling to their area.

Both Sheriff Belcher and an FBI agent have said in interviews regarding the Jennifer Wilsburger case that LE should never assume that a missing person is a runaway.........that once there is a confirmed missing person, LE MUST consider the possibility of foul play and investigate as such.......otherwise the possibility of losing valuable time and leads is too great.............of couse, there are many of us that have been saying that for a long time on this and other forums.........it is good to hear men in authority stating what is only common sense.......and sadly, just as curious1 says, "oh well, she obviously just wanted to get away, so no need to look for her."

Without the intense pressure placed on LE by the Murray's and the Rausch Family through the media during the first week Maura went missing, there would have been only one cursory search..........and to date there has never been a grid search outside of the square mile surrounding the accident.........

.........waiting for answers for Maura.

[Bobbisangel]

Darn...I thought Maura had been found. Isn't this thread for Missing but Located or am I going blind. lol

[CyberLaw]

No search training, no knowledge of what they should or should not be looking for, what type of evidence they should pay attention to, if they are destroying evidence, no endoresement from LE, not wearing I.D., can't be identified in any way.

How many people, when and where. it is not like these searches are organized and supervised by LE

Even if they found evidence do they have the knowledge and experience to "preserve the location".

Or will they just pick it up, move it, and shove it in a bag and then tell LE: Well I think it was by this tree, or maybe it was that tree, I don't know. It was in this field somewhere.

By the way, I hope the person(s) on your land is/are of good character, but you don't know this.

You don't even know who they are.

So how do you even tell a person is on your land, claiming to be looking for the "missing person" or are they looking to see if you are alone and what time your husband comes home, how old your kids are, your schedule, when you are home and not, when the sitter is there.

Also make sure they don't mind cars blocking their driveways, cars parked on their land.

You don't know who these people are....after all.....make sure no one has a criminal records, wanted by Police, or has harmed women and children. After all they are strangers.......

Maybe they heard about this case and are using it as an "opportunity" to "exploit and harm other people"

Also make sure you don't mind being sued. Just in case one of these people somehow hurt themselves on your land. Hope you have a good insurance policy. If you personally have to settle or go to court, well you won't have to worry about anyone coming onto your property...you won't own it anymore.

The insurance might not cover the full cost of lost wages, pain and suffering, medical wages and associated other costs of associated family members like a wife and 4 kids.

Some people might be sympathic, some won't. It depends on how they view this case, and if they value their right to quiet enjoyment, privacy and the veracity of the property they own.

I personally would have everyone sign a legal document if of course they ask my permission to be on the land that I own.

If they "disrespect" me and my rights, well too bad, I am not going to bend over backwards for you.

Ask me nice and I just might. But it will be under my terms, not yours.

I might term it this way: They can search my property once, they cannot hinder my "enjoyment" of my property, they can only come on my land with my permission between 1-3 on a Saturday afternoon to a max of 4 people. No cars shall block my exit or entrance or park on my land.

These people shall I.D. themselves and wear I.D. I shall know who they are. Picture I.D. is required.

They are not to come near my house, my family, pets or friends, they are not to destroy or alter my property or land in any way. They will relieve me of any "liability" they may encounter. They will not remove anything from my property without my consent.

That is the basics.

But if they come onto my PROPERTY, without my consent then they can leave. They are not invited.

I have heard of some instances where people arm themselves and shoot when someone comes onto their property without permission or consent.

Trust me when your community is under "seige" the people you claim I live in a rural area and IF someone came up missing here, the people would not stop looking nor would they care if other people looked........ might just have enough and want their "peaceful community" back again.

There is a point where people say: Enough

We don't endorse "vigilantes", who take the law into their own hands. Leave it up to the trained professionals.

So you guarantee that EMT, fire departments are going to search all over an area (especially rural)without a plan and at night. Hopefully there won't be some fire somewhere else or a person who needs medical attention. After all that is the job they are trained for.

People can believe what they want. I base my decision on facts. The facts do not support the conclusion of foul play and LE is in agreement.

Now if there were signs of foul play....that would be another story.

With the case in Georgia, they did investigate and did determine that foul play was involved.

They found evidence and interviewed family members and friends.

Jennifer was not drinking, did not take off in a car, did not pack up her home, did not lie, did not take out almost all of her money out of her account, did not write a note to her Fiance. She was expecting 600 guests at her wedding.

I have a funny feeling it was someone she knew in her past that is troubled with her getting married.

The cases are like night and day.

Maura planned on leaving and running away, and I wonder why only her "family" and friends are looking for her.

LE does investigate missing persons case like they did with Maura, that is why she is deemed to have voluntarly gone missing on her own.

You have to get all of the appropriate personal together, meet, make a plan, get all of the resources in order, it is not like it is instant search can be done.

You have to have all your "ducks" in a row.

What indication does LE have that Maura is in the area, they did search the area of her last known location, where the witness saw her on Route 112.

Sorry LE has put so much more resources into this case then there should have been.

Why would LE again look for a functioning adult, who has no physical or mental imparment, who is a high achiever, a college student, track star who voluntarly left on her own.

Maura makes her own choices as an adult, both good choices and bad, smart choices and not so smart choices.

Again LE could not pick up Maura if she left the accident scene.

So it does not matter if it was 36 hours or 3 hours, Maura left the area to avoid LE.

LE could not legally "apprehend and detain" Maura even if they found her an hour after the accident.

[Peabody]

This thread is for "Discussion" of the Missing - the *top* thread is for "Support" of the MIssing


Sadly, Maura has not been found.

[Grassyknoll2]

My point is just because someone is and adult and depressed and wants to get away for a weekend or a week just once or often, don't just say he/she was depressed and wanted to either disappear or die. If someone had abducted me during one of my excursions it saddens me to think that people would have just said oh well, she obviously wanted to get away so no need to look for her. Yes I wanted to get away, but not permenantly!

I agree, Curious. I have had co-workers tell me of similar trips when they were in collage.

I just feel very strongly that she slid off the road and got out at some point and time and that someone came down the road and hit her. I remember reading that during the investigation several law enforcement officers were almost hit while standing in the road near the car. So the witnesses say they didn't notice anyone pull up. How much attention were they really paying to everything? I just really really feel that she was hit, someone freaked out, put her in their car thinking she was dead. When they went to dispose of the body she wasn't dead, but it was too late they were already commited. If she lived she would tell people what happened so it just snowballed from there.

That's just my 2 cents worth.:)

My thoughts go out to her family and friends, may they have closure someday soon.
I have wondered this myself many times....whether someone may have accidentally hit her. The witness(es) who said they were watching from the window said they stopped watching when they saw Maura out of the car talking to the bus driver. The bus driver left, parked his bus and went into the house to call the police...supposedly had trouble getting through. There was obviously a period of time when nobody saw Maura. Nobody except the late witness ever said they saw her walking or running up the road...nobody but this witness ever saw her anywhere, but at her car.

I, too, hope that her family finds her so that they can begin to know what may have happened that night.

[CyberLaw]

This following is a prime example:

Jennifer from Georgia has been "found alive and well" when even LE thought that foul play was involved.

The first story: I was abducted, the second story was I needed a break from the pressure.

Everyone thought she was a victim of a crime, all indication "pointed" to that conclusion.

Can you see what I mean about people "taking" off, with no indications whatsoever.

They exausted all leads and searches for her, she was in New Mexico.

So you can see how far a person can travel even if it is by bus and not a car within a short time frame.

LE would not have had any info that she was in New Mexico.

She cut her hair to "disguise" her look also.

Does everyone now see what I am talking about when a case may on the surface seem like foul play, but in actuality is not.

It is a voluntarly missing person.......she gave no "clues" that she planned on taking off.

If Jennifer did not "call home", she could stay "missing" for as long as she wanted.

I wonder if LE is going to charge her for all of the taxpayers dollars that were invested in "the search" for her.

I doubt it, like the Audrey case......like Melissa.....

That is why I am again from the school of thought that Maura wanted to start a new life due to the extreme stresses, school, work and the BF.

Jennifer was only getting married, left without her keys, I.D. purse, she left with the clothes on her back.

Friends and family said that she would "never" just leave on her own.

She was "balanced and looking forward to having a huge wedding."

So friends and family may "think" they know a person, but they don't know their inner thoughts.

The car theory seems "plausible" but it would have had to happen within minutes.

I doubt someone could be hit with a car and leave no evidence in the snow.

Like blood.......parts of the front lights, etc.

Also the car would have been damaged and needed repair.

It would have been reported to LE, there would be blood, hair, etc on the car.

I don't know how many lone women are running into the night in rural New Hampshire, in the dark, cold, around dinner time on a Sunday.

That is why when you would notice someone like this, especially trying to hide from passing cars, a person would notice (like the witness) especially when the person is in the general area of where Maura may have been, around the same time frame.

Why remove her body from the scene also.

No one saw the person hit Maura, so why not leave her body where it laid.

You would remove yourself from the scene rather then the victim.

The person would not be caught if he left the body where it was.

But if he did take her and put her in the car, he is risking having evidence (long term) like hair, blood, fibre, prints, in the car or trunk and having to get rid of the body.

It would make more sense to leave the body where it was.

The person would panic and leave, they would not have presence of mind, to take the victim with them.

Good theory, but does not make sense.

A person would panic and take off.....like they usually do when it is a hit and run.

Maura was trying to hide from the witness, so I assume that she hid when she saw a passing car so they may not see her.

After all she knew the cops had been called, that is why she took off, she knew what would be found at the scene, so of course she would not know if the headlights coming up down the road, is just a passerby or LE.

Now you can see what LE is up against, when it comes to "finding a missing person," Jennifer was not in the in the same area, town or even state.

She went far and fast, wanted to get away.......

How would LE even know that she was in New Mexico, if she had not called home.

Also considering the people in this rural neighbour, I just can't see someone hitting another person, a young women and not doing the "right" thing.

The people in this area seem to be of good character.

Especially when the driver would not be at fault.

At least Maura gave clear "clues" that she planned on going voluntarly missing, unlike Jennifer, Audrey, Melissa.

[Grassyknoll2]

Jennifer, Audrey and Melissa all turned up within a couple of weeks. Maura will be gone 15 months next week and her family will acknowledge her second birthday.

I'm sure if I researched I could find thousands of other people who were thought to be missing who have turned up in a few days as well, because a larger percentage of persons who are missing do turn up within a few days.

[CyberLaw]

Jennifer was out of money, so she called home.

She was broke. She had no choice but to call home.

Came up with a "story" as told to 911.

Maybe Las Vegas "ate" up all of her available cash.

She pre planned her "adventure" she bought her Greyhound ticket April 19, 2005.

Apparently there is no location in her town of 22K to even buy a Greyhound ticket.

She had "issues" her family and Rev. where not aware of.

She is a nurse also.

Audrey was spotted in her home town and LE had a pretty good idea that it was a hoax, because things were just not adding up. She was spotted by several people.

If Audrey just left the city she was in, say for another town and another state, then she could have stayed missing also.

Could have changed her look, like Jennifer did too.

Melissa could have stayed "away" longer had it not been, no one was going to "support" her anymore, by giving her a place to stay and food.

I am sure if Melissa, had cash she would have stayed away longer.

Maura is smart, resourceful and pre planned her getaway.

I have no doubt that Maura could find work anywhere she wants to.

Could open up a new bank account, apply for new credit cards and it is so easy to get a cell phone.

I wonder why her cell phone was in the name of the BF Mom when Maura had her own credit cards.

I guess the BF Mom would know everyone that Maura phoned.

To me that seems odd. For a child, sure, but for an adult, it seems to me odd, controlling and invasive.

A man was "missing" for 13 years, just walked out one day, without any clues that he "planned" on going missing.

His mother registered him on Peoplesearch.com, they found him and gave her his address.

After 13 years of "missing". He was alive and well and had a family, new friends, a nice jobs. A good life.

An 18 years old women disappears in England. Gone. Vanished. She only "reappeared" some years later when a man was on trial for her "murder".

Walks into the court room, with her baby, everyone sees she is alive. Her family is in "full force" in the courtroom.

She walks out without even acknowledging them.

Apparently the "family" did not like the BF that is now her husband.

She feels she is better off "without" them.

Happy with her new life, her new friends, her new family.

Why would a voluntarly missing person who has gone missing "by choice" to start a new life, then of their own accord, return to the life they left behind.

The people and the problems they left behind.

Unless they had to or chose to.

They ditched the old life "by choice".

They moved forward by "going missing" and then you expect them to "backtrack" and have to face their problems, they ran away from in the first place.

It does not make sense to "voluntarly go missing" to begin with does it?

Just because a person is "missing" for 15 months or longer, just goes to show me that this person is a)intent on "staying" missing, b)does not want to return to their old life c)is resourceful and smart and d)will continue to stay missing, until they choose to contact whomever they wish one day.

Remember if they return to their old life they are returning to the the problems that they feel they were escaping from.

The quote that I remember LE saying: How many husbands just walk out the door one day, saying they are just going to the corner store or cigarettes, never to return.

It is interesting that people who go missing, may have "issues" that they did not share with family and friends, who are not aware of any difficulties.

That is why family and friends say "she/he had no problems, no issues, they are balanced, lots of friends, good job, good home, they had no reason to "disappear", they would have called home if they could, they left all of their personal possession behind.

Left family and friends that care about them.

That is the way the family members see it, but not the same way the "voluntarly missing" do.

Family and friends may not be aware of the "issues" that lead to the person to go "voluntarly missing in the first place.

All they can see is what is directly before them in their own perspective, not the perspective of the missing person.

I find it interesting that the family BF and BF mom's still tells the media that Maura "had a perfect" relationship with the BF.

That they were engaged to be engaged.

But Maura left him.......seems to be in direct contrast to what the "family portrays"

Remember the note (which the family denies) Maura left indicating "difficulties" in the relationship.

So the family thought the relationship was "perfect" while Maura left a dear John note.

Total contrast.........

Before we get into the "but the family and BF deny there was a note, LE lied etc.

Tell my again, why would LE lie about the note.

That was only days after Maura went missing.

It makes no sense for LE to lie about this, just like the call from the Red Cross.

LE has nothing to gain by lying.......about the phone call or note.

[Grassyknoll2]

According to LE Maura's last email to BF was "sappy"...most people in relationships have problems...they frequently fight and make up...

I do not consider myself either intellectually or morally superior. Over the many months I have read and posted to this forum, I have not changed my mind about my belief that Maura did not start a new life....my common sense and research tell me otherwise. Sadly, it seems that on this thread anyone with an opposing view, along with the Murry and Raush families, is demeaned and/or dismissed. The same thing happened on another site and all discussions about Maura stopped. It appears that due to discussions about Maura there were changes made to Websleuths format which had been in place for quite a while.

[Peabody]

First, I apologize for the length of this post - I prefer much shorter posts with the opportunity for the ws members to offer their opinions on one or two comments at a time. However, I know of no other way to address JUST SOME of Cyberlaw's comments


Secondly, Cyberlaw, I really do respect that your OPINION differs from mine --- but I cannot understand nor condone your consistent and unfounded attacks on Maura's family or that of her boyfriend.

If indeed Maura ran away, why is it the fault of her family or her boyfriend? You never implied that the recent run away bride, Jennifer, did so because of her family or future husband.

In the case of Jennifer, it is obvious that both her famly and that of her future husband are being very supportive and loving towards her and that it is SHE that has the problems.

The last 15 months have proven that Maura also has the love and support of both her family and her future family.

Perhaps Maura does/did have problems of which no one is aware. IT is easy for any of us to hide things from others......but I recall in some of your other posts that you accused the family and the boyfriend of not being honest........they have repeatedly said that they are not aware of anything. If they are not aware, how is it they are being dishonest?

Although I disagree with you, it is not your insistence that Maura has run away that raises my blood pressure, it is that you continually accuse Maura's family and the boyfriend and his mother of being liars....No, I do not believe you have come out and said "They are liars." But, as in your prior post, you are always insinuating and implying that they are. In my opinion, you attack the family.

I had an opinion that Jennifer's future husband did not seem worried or concerned about her. That opinion was based on his physical appearance as compared to that of the other loved ones in Jennifer's life as well as to the physcial appearance of Maura's father and boyfriend when I saw them on tv.....this fourm is all about opinions and speculation, not personal attacks.

What would the Murray family or the boyfriendy gain in lying about the facts surrrounding Maura's missing, the police or any other issue unless they harmed her?.......are you implying they are involved? It is not the fault of anyone on this forum or the Murray and Rausch famlies that you choose not to believe them. It is not the fault of the Murray and Rausch families that NH LE did not do a standup job on this investigation at the onset. Hopefully, they are dealing with her case differently now.

~~~~~~

The answers I am providing ARE FACTS and are copied after your remarks or questions - there was no reason to begin with and there is certainly no reason after 15 months for either family to spin a web of lies....everyone who knows Maura would be thrilled IF she is a runaway like Jennifer, especially the people that you constantly berate. Hopefully, she is, but here are some facts (for those of you unfamiliar with me, I have a close relationship with several people who know Maura well; some since her childhood.)



I wonder why her cell phone was in the name of the BF Mom when Maura had her own credit cards.


The boyfriend's cell phone was in the name of his mother because when he was at WP his freshman year, he could not leave the academy to purchase one for him self. She purchased it for him and used her initials which are similiar to the son's.

The boyfriend for reasons unknown to me kept 'his' cell phone account in his mother's name (I am GUESSING that after having the number for so long, - he went to West Point in 1998 - he just didn't want to change it.........it has only been recently that cell phone companies permit you to keep the same number IF you change accounts or companeies) and HE gave Maura's cell phone to her as a gift the Christmas before she went missing - surely you are aware of the share plans for cell phones????........an article at the beginning of her missing provided this information....share plans keep all of the lines on one account.

I guess the BF Mom would know everyone that Maura phoned.

My sources sau that the cell phone bill is mailed to the boyfriend - Mom does not pay for it. And Yes, Mom knows everyone that Maura called because AFTER Maura weent missing, her son/the boyfriend sent her a copy of the 2 cell phone bills that were generated from the time Maura received the phone until she went missing. When the cell phone bill arrived, he also contacted NH SP Detective Landry and sent NH SP the cell phone statement. IT is a fact that NH SP NEVER investigated ANY of the calls on the cell phone bill until the boyfriend's mom made it public that when she first called the numbers in OCTOBER 2004 that there were people the police had NEVER CONTACTED. They investigated the calls in late Nov and early Dec.

In October, Maura's family was re-reviewing everything they knew and the boyfriend's mom offer to call every number they did not know. That is how they learned the calls were never investigated.....and this is one more FACT that LE fails to investigate information they tell the Murray family they are investingating. While the Murray family with help from the Rausch family and many other voulunteers have been very active in the search for Maura, they really have wanted LE to do an investigation and have ONLY done those things which LE did not do/would not do.


To me that seems odd. For a child, sure, but for an adult, it seems to me odd, controlling and invasive.

Logical thinking concludes there is nothing odd, controlling or invasive here...........


I find it interesting that the family BF and BF mom's still tells the media that Maura "had a perfect" relationship with the BF.

That they were engaged to be engaged.

But Maura left him.......seems to be in direct contrast to what the "family portrays"

YOU ASSUME she voluntarily LEFT HIM - that she ran away - the family and the boyfriend disagree - their hearts break because they believe she has been harmed. Their lives have been forever changed with.

Maura contacted her boyfriend by phone just prior to her leaving UMASS- she left him messages - as well as emailing him the day of her disappearance ......all of her messages and the email said she loved him and that she promised to call him that evening.......the police listened to these messages and were provided a copy of the email....the email was printed in an issue of Seventeen Magazine and I have posted it here before.

Remember the note (which the family denies) Maura left indicating "difficulties" in the relationship.

If you do any research, you will find ONLY Lt. Scarinza mentioning a note sometime in April - first he says that there was a note FROM Maura TO the boyfriend........Later he releases a statement in a press conference when he met with the VT SP stating that the note was FROM the boyfriend TO Maura.........I KNOW that the boyfriend and the Dad tried for over six weeks to speak to LT. Scarinza and he would not take or return their calls.......have any of you ever noticed that ALL of the newspaper articles about the failure to investigate the cell phone calls, requests for comments re the Montel Show, and the recent requests to the Attorney General's office ALL state that "Lt. Scarinza is not available for comment". He has not made any comments since July 2004. That is his manner of communication in this case.

The boyfriend was INVITED by the UMASS POLICE to go through Maura's room the Friday after she went missing - the NH SP had never been to UMASS at that point. when the boyfriend went through her room, THERE WAS NO NOTE FROM MAURA TO HIM.

I suggest that if you choose to believe otherwise, that is up to you. Perhaps, you should call UMASS Campus Police. I doubt if they would release any info, but nontheless, THEY KNOW that what is being reported here is truth. In Maura's dorm room, there was a collection of notes/letters/cards from the boyfriend to Maura. These were love letters that she had kept - as most young women do.

As far as "difficulties", yes I would say, and I am sure that Maura and her boyfriend would agree that being in love and living over 2000 miles apart is a hugh difficulty - that in no way means there were any difficulties between them in their personal relationship.

So the family thought the relationship was "perfect" while Maura left a dear John note.

THERE WAS NO DEAR JOHN LETTER - EVEN LT. SCARINZA NEVER SAID AS MUCH - HIS IMPLICATION WAS THAT IT WAS A SUICIDE LETTER.....AND I REPEAT THERE WAS NO NOTE/LETTER FROM MAURA.

It doesn't take logical thinking to see the contraindiction in leaving a Dear John Letter and leaving several voice mails saying "I love you and I miss you." and sending an email stating the same thing with "I promise to call tonight."

Total contrast.........

Yes, the Dear John Letter that WAS NOT and the last messages and communication from Maura are in "TOTAL CONTRAST"

Before we get into the "but the family and BF deny there was a note, LE lied etc.

Tell my again, why would LE lie about the note.

WHY WOULD THE FAMILY AND THE BOYFRIEND LIE?

That was only days after Maura went missing.

It makes no sense for LE to lie about this, just like the call from the Red Cross.

LE has nothing to gain by lying.......about the phone call or note.LE HAS EVERYTHING TO GAIN - TO COVER UP THEIR MISTAKES AND/OR THEIR IN ADEQUACIES........even those I know close to Maura do not think that the LE originally or intentionally set out to bungle this case...........

Only if Maura's case file is made public will the truth be known for a certainty to you and to others not involved. What I have reported to you is truth - my report does not rely on the media, which often inadvertently makes mistakes.....but they often print corrections; LE is human too and they can and will make mistakes; but if a life were not at issue here, the mistakes made in NH regarding Maura would be considered a 'Comedy of Errors". It is past time that someone took responsibility.

Cyberlaw, if you really thing that LE does not lie, you are very naive....and I am not talking about the possible necessity of not telling the whole truth in order to catch a criminal. There are wonderful people in LE and there are not so wonderful people.

I would suggest that perhaps any of you that truly question the character of NH LE to emai "Lani", a moderator on this forum about her experience with NH LE when she attempted to assist the Murray family about a lead. Surely, Lanie has no reason to lie as you so clearly indicate that you believe the Murray and Rausch Families do.

Cyberlaw, as of today, it is my intention to ignore your venomous opinions. I hope that if I ever go missing, my family and loved ones will do for me what I see the Murray and Rausch families doing for Maura.


Prayers for Maura..........

[Peabody]

I would suggest that perhaps any of you that truly question the character of NH LE to emai "Lani", a moderator on this forum about her experience with NH LE when she attempted to assist the Murray family about a lead. Surely, Lanie has no reason to lie as you so clearly indicate that you believe the Murray and Rausch Families do.


Prayers for Maura..........
Please forgive me.....I should have lcheck some information BEFORE I posted it, but as I mentioned in my earlier post, my blood pressure was rising :furious:

It is WasBlind that is a moderator on this forum and is so frustrated with the lack of NH SP for their lack of cooperation with her in offering a lead for Maura and in their failure to investigate it.

Lani, if you are reading here, I owe you big time ;)

[CyberLaw]

So let me get this straight, it is perfectly fine for the "family" to call unbiased, impartial LE liars, incompetants, don't know their own jobs, did not do their jobs, but it is not perfectly fine to "question" the biased motives of this family. That the family are liars.

Let me repeat this again - BIASED MOTIVES OF THE FAMILY.

It is like a man calling LE to report his wife missing. HE tells them she has no reason to leave, loving family, wonderful husband. She was just going to the store. She only had pocket change on her, no keys, no cell phone, no purse. No reason to leave.

But upon investigation by LE they find out that, he stays out late, does not come home, is having an affair, let bills go unpaid, screaming matches, emotionally abused her. She was unhappy.

Now you see what I mean. Do you think that he is going to tell LE this.

Now the story takes on a whole different scene.

But of course the husband is not going to volunteer this information, it might look like she had a reason to leave.

He just knows that she is missing and he wants to find her. HE wants her BACK for him. He just knows that she is a victim of crime, foul play, she would never just up and leave.

Especially when LE finds out that, she had previously told friends and co-worker that she was "going away for awhile," packed a bag wihout her husband knowing, took out most of her money from the bank, packed up her desk at the office and quit her job the day before she went "missing".

Now it went from the husband's foul play to a women who voluntarily went missing.

But of course the husband will deny, any money was taken out of the bank, that a bag is missing with her clothes, that she quit her job the day before she went "missing" and it is just such a coincidence that this all this happened within a day of her going missing.

Her friends and coworkers lied when they told LE that she was going away for awhile.

After all who should know better then her husband.

Remember everyone else is lying, because of course the husband knows his wife.

She would never leave her husband. Go missing, without telling him.

He insists that LE did not find her for him, that LE did not do their jobs in bringing her back to him, that other people are just saying mean things about him, he is just actually such a nice guy, everyone else is lying.

That he treated her well, that she had no reason to just leave. She loved him, she would have called him if she could. LE is just lying because they "have bungled" the investigation from the start. Of course LE is to blame.

It is all of the fault of LE that his wife is not at home with him.

Their mantra, lie and deny. Blame everyone else. Deflect any responsibility that may have contributed to the "problem". Everyone else is to blame. Everyone else is wrong except them. Lie (even under oath)just make sure we are seen as the "perfect" family. Close ranks. Protect our family.

You see a daughter had a car accident on a rural road on the way back from a day at the cottage. The tire blew.
She and her mother feel it was the fault of the car and tire that she had the accident.

But when the Police arrived, they gave her a breathalyzer(it was .20) and when she was at the hospital having her blood taken and being treated for facial burns due to the air bag, her blood alcohol level increased to .25.

That was two hours after the accident.

But the mother blames the tire on the car for the accident and so does the daughter. The Police saw it a tad different. She was convicted. Impaired is .08 in Canada.

I will take the word of an unbiased LE whom are impartial anyday over a "family" that seems to say at every chance they get that LE is to blame, LE is at fault, LE "bungled" the investigation, LE is trying to spin, LE reported the note and lied, LE has something to hide, LE is to blame for Maura not being with the "family", LE lied about the call from the Red Cross.

You see again LE has nothing, let me repeat this again, nothing to gain by lying.

They have done their job. Investigated. Determine that Maura went voluntarly missing. Period. No other evidence to the contrary. No evidence of foul play.

Move on to other actual "criminal" investigations.

There are actual people who are victims of crimes that need the services and investigation of LE, you know Law Enforcement Officers.

Oh by the way with Jennifer: The only reason that she phoned home was because she was cold, hungry, tired and broke.

She changed her look and it was reported on the news tonight, if it was not for her being, cold, hungry, tired and broke, she would have stayed "missing" for as long as she wanted to. i think the word used was "forever".

She was a few thousand miles away from home across the country.

She did not want to return, but she HAD to return.

Not a well thought out plan.

Also her family and friends would have never known that she was not a victim of a crime and that she was not harmed.

Leading your family and friend and Fiance to believe that you were kidnapped and possibly and most likely harmed.

Now that is cruel......even in my books.

I am glad her family and friends are supportive, because they seem to be the only ones.

Other people (like volunteers) feel betrayed. Used. Angry.

Remember i fthis made it to Canada it made it around the world.

Jennifer may face criminal charges.

Federal charges. One charge is max of one year, the other is a max of 5 years.

She lied big time to 911, continued to lie and lie and lie.

Fabrication.........from the start.

I guess Jennifer is not as smart and resourceful as Maura is to be able to take care of herself.

So of course, when Maura had the phone call that made her distraught, of course that was a nothing call(according to the family) Sure right......actions do speak louder then words. Maura's actions and reactions said it all.

The father was just perfectly fine with the car being wrecked to 10K.

Did not bat an eyelash.

New car also.

I am sure it was "that is just fine Maura, don't worry about it, it was only a new car, and you only drove it after a night of drinking and you only hit a guardrail with no other cars in the vacinity. Everything is just fine.

So Maura looked up direction after visiting her Father on Sunday.

Oh I am sure it was just a coincidence that after she smashed the car and had to face her Dad she just happen to go back to her room and look up directions for Burlington and pack up.

Yeah sure....

That there was no note. Yeah, right.

The call did not come from the Red Cross. Sure, right again

That LE lied about the call from the Red Cross, sure, right again.

That the pre-paid calling cards cannot be traced. Sure, right again.

Yeah right, the family still denies that she ran away. O.K. now, can you please tell me what someone would do if they did not plan on running away.

Sure I pack up my whole house when I am leaving for a few days or a week too.

Maura was perfectly happy with the BF, but she did leave him without telling him of her true intentions.

Without even telling him at the same time that she was packing and looking up direction to Burlington.

Left school without telling him too.

E-mailed her professors and did not tell him also.

Does not seem like Maura was living her own life, but the life that was set out for her. What was expected of her.

I guess she can choose to do whatever she wants to do now. No pressure to conform to others expectations.

People who feel they have a good relationship with family and friends, talk to them.

People who are happy do not runaway from their life.

Happy people do not choose to go voluntarly missing.

Sorry Peabody I could only read a small portion of your post because of the red text.

Ditto for light green, pink, yellow.

I even tell my employees and associates at my Law practice this also

May I ask if the "lead" that WasBlind offered, was factual, relevant and of and informative nature. Truthful and can be verified.

Anyone who is involved in Law knows the difference, between "fluff" and "fact."

It is when the "average" person seems to think that the fluff is as important as the fact is where the problem arises.

The average person seems to feel that the fluff should be acted upon. But LE knows better then this. They will act upon fact.

That was why most likely the "lead" was discounted and was not warmly received by LE.

I feel strongly that LE has had enough of the "family" and others in regards to a simple case of an adult who chooses to go voluntarily missing.

Why did the Murray family just not report this "lead" to LE themselves.

Personally assisting the Murray family......

A moderator none the less. Does he assist everyone in this fashion. if so he must be busy.....

I kind of wonder, if a person is assisting the Murray family and obviously want to "assist" what their agenda is and how unbised they are.

Peabody, you really should have your blood pressure checked, I would hate for you to have a stroke because of little ole me.

I know there is no Univeral Health Care in the USA, and high blood pressure is probably expensive.

[gatetrekker44]

we here in the good old US of A know not to believe BLINDLY every thing that comes out of the mouths of politicians, lawyers, doctors, AND LE entities! :doh:

Since I'm sure that even you have heard of the case in NC of Darryl Hunt- a young black man who was convicted of the rape/murder of a white woman and served 18 years in prison, several of them on death row, before being TOTALLY EXHONERATED due to new DNA testing that proved he could NOT have committed the crime. Another individual who was already incarcerated for another violent crime matched the DNA-and LE was AWARE of this person back when Darryl Hunt was charged because of a similiar crime commission. But LE wanted soooo badly to close this case that they convicted an innocent man-and even tried for several years to keep him in prison even
after they KNEW the DNA didn't match-it took the Gov Of NC to get him out before he was finally exhonerated in court. So CyberLaw, there are LOTS of reasons for LE to lie, bend the truth, and cover their butts when they screw up-not the least of which is because they don't want to look like fools who didn't "do it right" the first time-and LE will sometime go to GREAT lengths to make sure the truth doesn't come out!


Bring Maura home!

[Grassyknoll2]

There were a couple of points/questions posted on the website for Maura....

I've always been curious as to whether he set out flares to indicate that Maura's car was there. From what I have seen it is a really bad spot and very dark. It would seem that some device of that sort would have been available as a part of the safety kit on the bus.
Does anybody know whether there was anything in the papers about Flares?? Anybody have any idea what types of safety equipment might have been on the bus?? I remember one article where one person said the flashers were on in Maura's car, but then right after somebody else said they weren't.

From the descriptions it seems that the car was in a bad spot, and in one story it said that she had trouble getting out of the driver's car door because of the snowbank. As I picture it in my head, the only way the driver's door could be in the snowbank would be if the car were heading the wrong way in a lane which would mean that another car coming upon it would not have the benefit of the reflection of the red lights.

When I was looking for the quote about the cars, I was reminded of one other very curious piece of information that was printed in the paper...Rausch said family members were told by at least one person living near the accident site a man was seen in Maura's car after the accident.

Did anybody else see this or anymore on this?

[Peabody]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Murray and Rausch families continue to show their love for Maura: According to the scriptures, "Love always hopes and Love never fails."

Praying Blessings for them all today.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


It is with the permission of www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/) and Sharon that I am reprinting the following regarding Maura’s 23rd birthday today May 4, 2005.










Sharon wrote:

Maura's 23rd birthday is Wednesday May 4th ~ Please add your words and prayers of support here:


"Our help is from the Lord, who created heaven and earth." Psalm 24:8





I have learned over the last year that many statements by those of us who love Maura have been misunderstood or twisted. I wish I could honestly say that I don’t care, but I do. The following thoughts are straight from my heart without a lot of editing or rewriting. Because I have no control over what others read into my words or thoughts, I am just going to say what I feel. Hopefully, I am able to communicate in a fashion that will not be parsed and debated; however if anyone tries to make it something it is not, they are just looking to find fault.



Today, May 4, 2005, is Maura’s 23rd birthday.

So many of us miss Maura that words are inadequate to describe the depth of the void in our lives. As her birthday comes and goes in the lives of those of us who love her most, this day serves only to escalate the painful reminders that she is gone.

Her family and boyfriend have now endured 449 days of grief, heartache and fear that only the loved ones of others who are missing can possibly comprehend. Believe me, the loss to death of a loved one pales in comparison to the loss of a missing loved one, especially when the circumstances are unknown.

We are living a nightmare. Sleep for many of us is seldom if ever restful. Most often, it eludes us completely. We fight to keep from closing our eyes: unbelievably, our living nightmare is surpassed only by the nightmares and dreams of sleep; our imaginings are even worse than the grim reality that she is gone and that we may never be with her again.

Missing Maura is misery; not knowing where she is or if she is even still with us is agony. All who know our beloved Maura agree with us that she would never willingly worry, let alone hurt so many people by her absence.

Logic and reason tell us that we will never see her again this side of eternity. Yet, our hearts refuse to give up hope. We cannot abandon searching for her. We hear the laughter of the Maura giggle; we picture the Maura smile and dimples; we yearn for her contagious personality. Some days seem unbearable, but with God’s help, we will not surrender to despair.

It helps me to call to mind the look of adoration for my son in her eyes, to reflect on her unique and mature outlook on life, to recall how she looked forward to being a wife and a mother and a nurse – and yes, even an army wife, to recollect how excited she became with the most simple gift or act of kindness, how she was always so positive even when the situation was negative…..her quick wit and sarcastic jibes…. her physical beauty and inner beauty and peace.

Then, the tears and heartache bring me back to reality: We will not have Maura to enjoy a time of celebration with her favorite meal, cake, ice cream and gifts, we are forced instead to relive the worst of our fears and frustrations as we acknowledge that we have not learned anything in 449 days that will help us in knowing what has happened to her or how to bring her home.

I pray that Maura is still of this world. And if she is that she will have the opportunity to read this promise from all of us in Hanson and in Ohio:

Dear Maura, There were those of us that made a promise when you went missing that we would never give up until we brought you home. For your 23rd birthday, we vow once again that we will never stop searching until we do. It is our love for you that drives us. God willing, He will give us answers in His time. If those who say you were running to get away from all of this love are correct, then our only request is that you let us know that you are well. True love isn’t selfish. We only want you happy and our hearts at peace because we love you.

With love,
Big Bill & Sharon

Blue - Maura's favorite color and a symbol of the sadness in our hearts. and

[Peabody]

Please add your words and prayers of support for Maura and her loved ones under the 'Missing Persons Information and Support' thread here at websleuths

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19246&page=2&pp=25



There is also a special thread for thoughts and prayers at www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/) under the sub-heading 'A Show of Support' under the heading 'Knowing Maura' I believe you can add your comments without having to register.

[dannyodie]

Hey Everyone Please Remember Today Is National Prayer Day, I Hope That All Folks At Some Point During There Busy Day To Take A Moment Of Silence To Prayer For All Those That Are Missing And Their Families.

[CyberLaw]

I did look up the case of Daryl Hunt in N.C.

From the Website:http://www.truthinjustice.org/hunt-exonerated.htm

From the start, race played a role in the way the case was prosecuted and in the way it was perceived for the simple reason that Hunt is black and Sykes was white.

In Keith's motion to vacate Hunt's conviction, he makes note of the physical similarities between Hunt and Brown. Both were dark-skinned black men. Brown was 24 and Hunt was 19 at the time of the murder. Brown was 5 foot 7 and weighed 130 pounds in 1986 when he was questioned by police; Hunt is 5 foot 10 and weighed about 150 pounds in 1984.

Court officials also said that as far as they know, today's hearing was the first test of the Innocence Protection Act, passed by the state legislature in 2001. The act authorizes post-conviction DNA testing, and gives a judge considerable latitude in such cases.

From the start, the case became a parable about race and justice. A survey of jurors before his first trial in 1985 found that blacks overwhelmingly believed in his innocence and whites believed in his guilt.

The Sykes murder and the second rape were strikingly similar. Both victims were young, white women who were attacked on their way to work in a downtown office, and both were raped and stabbed. Police have not explained why they never prosecuted Brown in the second rape or why they ruled him out as a suspect in the Sykes murder. They have said that at some point in their investigation that they learned, mistakenly, that Brown was in prison the day Sykes was killed

So the DNA that proved a man's innocence, was found to convict a man who was responsible for the crime.

So it is a double edged sword. A person who has killed another, can be convicted on DNA, even though he has an alibi witness.

A person who was wrongly identified by a "witness" or "victim" as the "perp" can be found not guilty due to DNA.

Do you know that "eye" witnesses are wrong in 50% of the time.

A white women who was raped, was sure she "eye" witnessed the man who raped her.

Her identification was wrong, an innocent man was sent to Prison (no DNA testing available), but when DNA testing was done, some years later. The man was found innocent and the correct man was finally convicted.

Was that the fault of LE that "they" believed the testimony of the rape victim.

That would be No.

Is it the fault of LE that the black man was convicted of raping a white woman.

That again would be No.

Was it the fault of the judge, jury, lawyers.

Again that would be No.

Was the "witness" mistaken and the "real criminal" looked very similar to the "innocent man"

That would be Yes.

It makes no sense for LE to allow a criminal to go free while an innocent person sits in Prison.

What this has to do with Maura Murray, N.H. LE, missing persons's, voluntarly missing person is way beyond my scope of considerable logic.

But I guess not beyond yours.........

Simple facts is, there was no crime in NH, no suspects, no "witnesses" to a crime, no evidence of a crime, no DNA, no conviction, no wrongful conviction.

So.........?????????

I have yet to find any evidence that LE deliberatly did anything in New Hampshire.

If anything they have bent over backwards and then some to "cater" to the wishes and "beliefs" of the family even though there has been no crime, no evidence and no victim.

Jennifer travelled 3K (miles) in just a few days, it would lend one to wonder how far Maura could have travelled in a similar amount of time.

LE in New Hamsphire have done all they are required to do, barring any new evidence or tangible leads.

LE has "bent over backards" for the Murray family et al.

What this has to do with a "racial" aspect of a wongful conviction, in a Southern State, 18 years ago, is way beyond me.

Oh I forgot the Civil War was fought in the USA, brother against brother, because the South still wanted slavery. Black slaves.......

Please note all support posts are posted on the "wrong" forum.

This is the missing/located discussion forum, not the support forum, nor thread.

[bulletgirl2002]

Maura has been missing too long without any trace for foul play not to be involved in her going missing.

[golden]

For those of us who know and love Maura and the Murray and Rausch families, it is very difficult to read some of the comments which seem to question the family's intense involvement in searching of Maura. Surely, we all have the common goal of finding her and having her come home to Hanson. Fifteen months seems like forever for those of us who miss her dearly. It is true that this is the 'Missing/located forum" ~ but the constant 'questioning' (and criticizing) of the family's methods to find Maura is really not helpful regardless of which forum it is!
Thank you Bulletgirl2002 for simply stating what is obvious to so many!

[Grassyknoll2]

Hi to Golden and Bulletgirl...I've figured out how the "ignore" feature works and I recommend it highly. What others are saying often gets lost because of some of the lengthy posts....kind of like trying to hold a discussion with one person shouting over everybody else.

Golden, I can understand how you feel about the family being criticized, but what is troublesome and confusing to me is not so much that the families search methods are being questioned it is the fact that the family is searching at all that is being called into question.

Bulletgirl, you're so right after all this time in this day and age, it sure does seem that a person with no identification or even false identification wouldn't show up on someone's radar somewhere. I make a lot more than minimum wage and I know I couldn't afford to live anywhere in the country.

I hate to admit it, but Cyberlaw's certainty that Maura is alive, is unnerving...seems to me the only ones who would know with that degree of certainty would be Maura or the person she would be living with voluntarily or otherwise.

Speaking of posts getting lost...did anybody see my last post? Did anybody ever read more about the "man" seen in Maura's car? Tried searching for info on required safety equipment on busses last night...no luck...anybody know what they may be required to carry on these busses?

[murraydwyer]

This was posted in the Support section along with another post...both by Boxerz...

What really throws me...with this Maura case is this...FIVE different versions of witness accounts/observations....then as you look further, there are yet more other versions..right out there in the media.

Some say Maura appeared intoxicated, some did not...some have Maura having a "smoke" in her wrecked car, trying to use her cell phone in an area where cell phone service just doesnt work...because of mountains, rocks, doesnt make sense.

So She was just relaxing, having a smoke, "before breaking into a fierce, no end type of run" thats how she got away from the accident scene so far into the woods where no one can find her, or any trace of her over a year later.

Intoxicated, how did she venture so far into the woods that nobody could find her, then.."Wonderwoman on a High-ball"?

Mind over matter, they say, i guess.

She was a college student plotting suicide, but her books along with her for study..in case she changed her mind?

Two more of these accounts/versions are from one person....Wow...then another report comes up. Then, yet, another two witness', nearly two months later....in a small town this person did not know, took that long to figure out what was remembered in a place where nothing happens?

It is just plain weird...something isnt adding up, it all has not added up, since Feb 9, 2004....Nobody did any immediate search , at say 7:30pm, well over an hour after the accident, in the adjoining counties, townships..why?

For all this time i thought that "Mutual Aid" worked so well here in NH..i begin to wonder, now. THIS WAS POSTED BY BOXERZ IN SUPPORT SECTION

[CyberLaw]

A person is missing for 15 months and then people "assume" it is foul play.

I am not even going to try and "logic" that through.

Don't even know where to begin or where not to begin.

Assume being the key word.

Using your experiences and thoughts to "try" and explain others actions, from your own personal perspective.

A person through their experiences might not be able to survive on their own without Mom and Dad and "family support"

But the next person can no problem. Not only do they survive, they are better off.

People have been "missing" for 5-25 years, because their family or family members don't know where they are.

So they are missing to them.

But the person who is missing, knows where they are, what they are doing, so as far as they are concerned they are not "missing".

They have choosen to "go missing" from the family.

They see it as an "estrangment" from their family, the family sees it as "missing".

The missing person knows who their friends are, their co-workers, children, neighbours, where they play sports, what their favourite movie is. They know exactly where they are.

So they are just fine thank you.

But the family does not know where they are.

But the "family has to find them, hunt them down, trample others rights, make wild accusations, blame others.

We just have to find them at all costs. After all the ends do justify the means in the case of our "missing loved one"

After all the "family" does not where their "missing loved ones is"

Even if they don't want to be found.........

Ever been to Peoplesearch.com.

You would be amazed at people looking for "lost" and "missing" family members.

Did anyone see Maura travel without ID.?

Did she have other I.D.?

Was all of her ID gone. ?

Did she have a passport?

Does anyone know that she is working at a minimum wage job?

Is she sharing with anyone?

Do you know what State, town, city she is in.

Is she in the USA?

Travelled to Europe?

Do you know who she knew in Burlington?

Do you know if she meet someone else?

Do you know if she was happy?

Do you know why she was depressed?

Do you know about the "family" dynamics, (according to Maura).

Do you know her interests are at this moment?

Do you know if she has changed her look?

Her emotional state, current and past?

Her lifestyle, her jobs interests?

Did she really want to follow in Mom's footsteps and become a nurse?

Did she really want to go to the same school as her Dad?

What "issues' is she dealing with or was dealing with?

Do you know who her new neighbours are, co-workers?

Do you....come on, please, speak up.

The only person who knows another person is the person themselves.

The longer you stay away, the harder it is to return to the "old" life you left behind and face those conflicts and people you left behind.

You are returning to the same people and same problems you ran away from.

Easier to just stay "missing".

I fully support Maura if she wants to return, wants to contact the BF, the BF Mother, the Father.

That would be IF.

But that after all is the choice of the person who went missing, not the people who want him/her back.

You see there is ALWAYS two sides to every story.

We have only heard one story, we have yet to hear Maura's side of the story, if she was happy with the family, her parents, her BF, school, friends, courses, work.

But then again if she was happy she would not have run away from her "life" as she knew it.

We only know what the parents feel they know, what they think they know, what they might now or not, what they assume, what they want to be made public.

What they are hiding, what they choose not to disclose.

But only Maura knew what she was thinking, her emotional state, if she was happy or not.

You see I guess it is a hard blow to parents to think that they need their children, but their children do not need them.

Part of growing up, letting go. You child is now an adult.

After 18, your child can decide to do what they want for themselves.

What really gets me, is when parents "choose" to believe their child is "dead" and a victim of foul play rather then face the hard cold reality of day, that their child has "choosen" not to be involved in their parents lives.

So I feel extremely comfortable in my position that Maura is alive.

Nothing else to the contrary........no evidence or proof.

So you all can put forth the "conjecture" "assumptions" and "speculation" that Maura is dead, but I for one will not accept that for my position.

I have seen and heard of way too many stories about people who do a "Maura" to even consider it.

A women missing for 7 years. Family "just" knows that she is not alive, because after all they have not heard from her in all of these years. Victim of foul play.....she would call if she could, she would never not just phone.

She ran away......ditched the family, left at 22, never looked back.

Only to show up for her Grandmother's funeral.

7 years later.

A friend that she had been in contact with all these years, told her she read the Obit in the paper.

She came back for the funeral.

Came back to the same people, the same treatment of her and the same "family" problems.

Nothing had changed.

She left again...........never telling her "loved ones" where she lives, her life, her husband, her children, her job.

But she did tell them that she was happy living her life away from them and will continue to think of her hapiness first and foremost other then their "need" to know where their missing "loved one is".

Now that is a hard blow.

The parent cannot now assume their child did not phone them because she could not, but would not, and will not.

Maura did what was right for her, not what was right for her Mom, Dad, Sister, brother, BF Mom and BF.

Maura did what she wanted to do, after all she is an adult, free to make the choices in her life for herself and she has a "right" to be happy on her own terms.

This happens, lets me see an average of 840K times per year alone in the USA.

People running away and going "missing" from their loved ones.

So in the last 15 months probably close to one million people have "voluntarly" gone mssing by choice from their loved ones.

Maura was just one of those people..........

[murraydwyer]

Now I remember why I stopped posting........

[JrZyChris]

Now I remember why I stopped posting........
Don't stop posting. Your thoughts are just as important as anyone else's. As discouraging as it may get, it's people like you who are firm in their beliefs that keep others going.

Regards,
Christine

[LazyCat08]

A person is missing for 15 months and then people "assume" it is foul play.

I am not even going to try and "logic" that through.

Don't even know where to begin or where not to begin.

Assume being the key word.

Using your experiences and thoughts to "try" and explain others actions, from your own personal perspective.

.........Cyberlaw, do you believe that Maura left a note explaining that she was leaving and didn't want to be found? I remember someone saying that there may have been a note found by police at her dorm room. If that were the case I assume LE is not obligated to disclose this information to the family...?

I think you do have some good points about this case, as unpopular as they may be with some.

I tend to think that by this time there would be some evidence one way or other....and perhaps there is but we just don't know exactly what it is.

In case of Brianna Maitland - the police stated that they had reasons to believe that she was involved with the wrong people and had made some bad choices that led to her disappearence. That kind of thing does happen....

Anyway,

So let me get this straight, it is perfectly fine for the "family" to call unbiased, impartial LE liars, incompetants, don't know their own jobs, did not do their jobs, but it is not perfectly fine to "question" the biased motives of this family. That the family are liars .........I have to disagree here "unbiased, impartial LE" - come on now!
YES - the family COULD want to keep personal problems that may have led the Maura's disappearence, to themselves - they may have reasons for not telling the media everything about their lives - who is to judge???
BUT law enforcement is most certainly NOT unbiased, impartial! They would have reasons to cover up for themselves if they did act incompetant and didn't do their own jobs - and it does happen. - BUT I'M NOT SAYING THAT IS THE CASE HERE.
If there was no throughl search done by police until days later - WHY is that? It' was freezing cold and there are reports of a young girl who got into an accident on a dark road and an abandoned vehicle from out of state - that seems like enough of a reason for a large scale search of the area immediately. At that point they didn't know that she had the police do appear to have been lax about the situation.....

I just think it is unforunate either way, it's sad that the family can't know, so at least they can accept the truth and move on with there own lives.
You may be right about the family - but if it were your child wouldn't you still want to know what happened - even if you did have some family issues - and wouldn't you be upset that the police didn't search right away??
Maura's family and friends love her and want to know that she is OK and I feel bad that they have to live with so many questions...but your theory is logical and I definitely take it into consideration as a very real possibility. I would rather believe that she ran way of her own free will and she is happy than the other options...

[gatetrekker44]

LE should have done more-since there was airbag deployment they had no way of knowing whether or not Maura was injured. Maura being a petite person was much more susceptible to injury from the airbag in addition to injury from the crash. Since Maura had had two accidents within a short time frame, there is a REAL possibility that her brain was traumatized in a manner similiar to but not as severe as what's seen in shaken baby syndrome. This type of brain trauma can cause confusion, agitation, and even amnesia. See below about a "disappeared" person who "reappeared" but claims to have no memory of where he's been for 3 months!


http://www.thebakersfieldchannel.com/news/4447108/detail.html?subid=22100581&qs=1;bp=t

Bring Maura home!

[nhjane]

I have been reading this thread for a while now. It is called the discussion thread and yet it seems that nobody gets to discuss anything without a two page barrage of words.* I'm all for free speech and agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but anybody who has read or posted here gets the same opinion after each post. Cyberlaw, we are well aware of your opinion, many people here don't seem to agree with you, but when they ask specific questions about your reasoning and logic, you never aswer directly. You are not discussing the case of Maura Murray you are merely repeating the same opinion over and over again. (IMO in an extremely cold hearted and mean spirited way. I can only imagine the families reaction upon reading your unnecessarily cruel words. Is that why you do it, for the reaction?)
We get that you even refuse to consider the possibility that the investigation was not properly handled. However, I live here in the North Country and can tell you with certainty that mistakes can and do happen here (as I suspect they do everywhere. After all, the police are only human) I envy you your LE in Canada as they seem to be infalliable, it must be very comforting to have such faith in your safety, but I assure you, that is not how I feel. Everyone has a right to their opinion and we have a right to discuss our beliefs without harassment. I really don't understand the vehemence with which you post, but may I respectfuly suggest that you choose your words with a little more care and compassion ....

[Peabody]

I have been reading this thread for a while now. It is called the discussion thread and yet it seems that nobody gets to discuss anything without a two page barrage of words.* I'm all for free speech and agree that everyone is entitled to their opinion, but anybody who has read or posted here gets the same opinion after each post. Cyberlaw, we are well aware of your opinion, many people here don't seem to agree with you, but when they ask specific questions about your reasoning and logic, you never aswer directly. You are not discussing the case of Maura Murray you are merely repeating the same opinion over and over again. (IMO in an extremely cold hearted and mean spirited way. I can only imagine the families reaction upon reading your unnecessarily cruel words. Is that why you do it, for the reaction?)
We get that you even refuse to consider the possibility that the investigation was not properly handled. However, I live here in the North Country and can tell you with certainty that mistakes can and do happen here (as I suspect they do everywhere. After all, the police are only human) I envy you your LE in Canada as they seem to be infalliable, it must be very comforting to have such faith in your safety, but I assure you, that is not how I feel. Everyone has a right to their opinion and we have a right to discuss our beliefs without harassment. I really don't understand the vehemence with which you post, but may I respectfuly suggest that you choose your words with a little more care and compassion ....
:clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank You nhjane for your kind, tactful and, in my opinion a most deserved criticism of Cyberlaw's posts.

I speak only for myself, but I do not find Cyberlaw's opinion offensive; I find Cyberlaw's posts offensive because of the attitude with which opinions are presented combined with the consistent refusal to respond to direct questions by other posters.

I am sure that Maura's loved ones hope and pray with all of their heart that his opinion that she has run away is absoultely correct......I know that is my desire, although it is not my belief.

It is also my OPINION (based on Cyberlaw's posts) that he/she has in some fashion, manner or form extremely strong ties to Maura or Maura's case which result in the scathing attacks on Maura, her family, her boyfriend, and her boyfriend's family......

I have wondered if Cyberlaw's ties may be his/her own mental/emotional issues resulting from his/her experience with running away from a controlling family as he/she reported here at Websleuth's during the discussion of Maura's case. :twocents:

[PrayersForMaura]

Prayers for Maura ... I keep hoping she will be found, and I pray that she is alive. That's all that matters to me. If she left on her own, so be it. If she has amnesia, I pray someone recognizes her. Just please bring her home safe and sound....

[texasgirl]

Prayers for Maura ... I keep hoping she will be found, and I pray that she is alive. That's all that matters to me. If she left on her own, so be it. If she has amnesia, I pray someone recognizes her. Just please bring her home safe and sound....

Amen to that! I keep hoping today is the day that she will be found!:banghead:

[CyberLaw]

Please list any questions that you would like me to answer

Please make them new and I will see what I can do.

But please make them logical questions. Factual questions........

Like lets just say a head injury: Well what do you think airbags are for. They prevent a head injury by insuring your head does not hit a solid object. Like the windshield or steering wheel. So what head injury, what amnesia.

Your head will be "coushioned" by the air bag before it hits the steering wheel, dash or windshield.

You are more likely to get an "air bag" burn rather than a head injury from an airbag.

You see that was an easy question to answer. Logic and common sense.

Like the letter, that Maura did not leave(according to the family)

Well I do believe that she left a letter, explaining how unhappy she was and more. But of course this does not fit in with the "theory" of the family that she did not run away.

She expressed her thoughts and feeling in this letter, which would have been found up to a week or more after she "ran away".

So at least Maura had the courage and decency not to leave her family wondering why she ran away.

I guess my opinion and "tone of posts" comes from the fact that an adult is free to choose what to do with their life, they are an adult.

The "family" expect LE to be their own private Police force to look for Maura in 51 States amongst 300 Million people and to actually find her.

Even though Maura has not broken the law.

If LE does not fin the "missing loved one", of course the family blames them.

LE is there for all of society. The law reflect the values and morals of society. Not a specific family of a runaway adult. They are paid by the taxpayers, not privately by the Murray family et al.

They are there to enforce the law for everyone. Last time I checked, running away and "ditching" your family is not against the law.

So let me get this straight. You think LE should second guess and subsitute their decision for another adults decision to flee a scene where no law has been broken.

LE is not the "stupid" decision police or "save your butt" from your own action police.

A person in a democratic society is free to make choices both good and bad for themselves.

"Big Brother" LE is not there to say: We don't think that is a good idea, therefore you are not allowed to do this or if you do this "stupid" idea, we will save you from yourself.

That is the job of parents.

Oh really.....not in Canada. The Police here enforce the law and they turn to the charging provisions of the Criminal Code of Canada to see if the law has been broken.

It is not illegal for any adult to run away from their family in Canada.

LE does not "hunt" them down and drag them back to their loved ones.

No........LE takes a report, all of the information and then makes the determination of the case.

Like a recent case - an elderly frail man - does not speak English - needs medication. Found later the same day, by a "passerby" who recognized him from the news and papers.

Like a "very depressed" University student, disappeared after writing an exam. Still missing

Like a "mentally" and "physically disabled man" who walked away from a managed care home. He needs 24 hour care and has never been on his own outside of the facility. It did not turn out well for him

Like a women who disappeared, after filing for Divorce from her very abusive husband. They found him, holding her against her will and he was arrested.

But not the Politicans daughter who was "missing" for weeks on end partying with her friends.

Not the 24 year old who wanted to travel with her Boyfriend, and not finish school.

Not the young man who did not want to even go to school but take off for the "West Coast" to party and ski.

What young adults want for themselves and how they envision their life is sometimes very different from how their parents do.

Remember children over 18 are no longer children, they are adults and can choose their course of life as they see fit.

If they want to runaway from Mom and Dad and ski in B.C. without Mom and Dad's consent and/or permission, well they are an adult.

Mom and Dad cannot go to LE and say: Well it is more important for my son/daughter to finish school. He/she is in B.C. somewhere, please find my son/daughter and bring them back to me as they are "missing", we don't know where he/she is.

LE will take a report and file it away. Will they contact the RCMP to investigae every ski resort. No. Will they issue an arrest warrant. No. Will it make the TV. No. Newspapers. No. .

Is there a Canada Wide warrant issued for the arrest of said son or daughter. No, there has been no law that has been broken.

Now if said son or daughter robs the ski resort, assults another person, steals a car at the ski resort, gets drunk in public, well of course LE will get involved, all of those offences are against the LAW.

Going against Mom and Dad's wishes as an adult and doing what you want to do where you choose to do it, without telling Mom and Dad where you are, is not.

They are young, free wihout ties to a family or job, single without kids, no responsibility to anyone except themselves.

With that in mind, you wonder why so many college aged students go missing from their family.

[murraydwyer]

Cyberlaw Like the letter, that Maura did not leave(according to the family)

Well I do believe that she left a letter, explaining how unhappy she was and more. But of course this does not fit in with the "theory" of the family that she did not run away.

She expressed her thoughts and feeling in this letter, which would have been found up to a week or more after she "ran away".

So at least Maura had the courage and decency not to leave her family wondering why she ran away.

It defies all logic and decency that if Maura had left such a letter that the police would not have shown a copy to the family...instead of allowing this man (Maura's dad) and others to spend every other weekend searching the woods of NH for well over a year, especially after repeated attempts by the family to have LE either show them the letter or correct the information. You appear to have an active imagination to fit your "theories", but your belief that Maura "expressed her thoughts and feelings in this letter" is not commonly known FACT.....your comment that "Maura had the courage and decency not to leave her family wondering why she ran away", is heartening, but apparently you have a very low opinion of the LE involved...seems that if this were a FACT that they would have had the courage and decency to share this information with the family.....

[Hammerized]

I can't make sense out of that blather. I won't waste my time.

[murraydwyer]

What Gatetrekker said was: Since Maura had had two accidents within a short time frame, there is a REAL possibility that her brain was traumatized in a manner similiar to but not as severe as what's seen in shaken baby syndrome. Nothing was said about Maura's head hitting the windshield. Ones head may well be cushioned before it hits the windshield, but I believe that the point that Gatetrekker was trying to make is that there is a real possibility that there could have been injury without Maura's head hitting the windshield. I've only experienced whiplash once after being hit from behind while stopped...it is very real. The speed of the car when it hit the snowbank or whatever could certainly affect the degree of injury from the head being thrown forward and backward rapidly. One other time I was in an accident when my car was hit near the drivers side wheel.....I actually was trown into a prone position toward the passenger side and then thrown back, hitting my head on the driver's door frame and suffered a slight concussion. I didn't have an airbag, but the seatbelt didn't keep me from being thrown sideways.....we don't know exactly what part of the car struck...either of these scenarios is possible and Gatetrekker makes a good point.

For the record, I have been driving for 40 years and was not determined to be at fault in either accident.

[sharon25]

snipped REALLY long post.
may I just ask Why you are bothering to post here if you do not believe she is really "missing"?

Why not just let the people who care for her try and find her.
Instead of agonizing them with your very long posts that
will not Help find her?

Also- LE is also made up of these creatures called, human beings.
And these human beings do things called, Mistakes.

IE. Erica Green (who's grandpa tried many many many times to give them info), and David Steeves (whom I'm sure you'll say that it wasn't LE's fault, but it was the dispatchers fault.)
there's So many different cases to cite in which, yes, the LE, did clearly make a mistake.

Did they in this case? Who knows.

But I must ask why do *You* have such strong feelings about people caring for Maura?

[CyberLaw]

Guess what: The letter is part of this "investigation", it is protected by the Freedom of Information Act.
Even if there is no current investigation, it is still protected by LAW.

I fully believe that Maura left a letter. Runaways often do.

You see LE has already told the Murray et al what the letter contained. She indicated she had difficulties with her BF and probably other information.

LE has already told the them, that Maura voluntarily ran away. But the Murray et al "refuses" to believe that.

LE is not allowing Fred Murray to search an area that Maura was last seen over a year ago. He does that on his own for himself, by his own choice. His own agenda.

The man is obviously desperate and frustrated.

Maura could be in any other 51 states amongst 300 million people.

Wiplash is a muscle injury not a head injury. Your head would have to hit a solid object to substain an injury.

That is why(ta da) there are air bags. Maura was not going fast, nor did her head hit a solid object. Her Father had a brand new car, Maura did not go to the hospital on her own, as a nurse in training she would be well aware of the symptoms of a head injury. She made rational choices which were thought out, pre-mediated, and well planned. That is not a sign of any head injury, nor confused conduct and behaviour.

An adult is free to "runaway" and go missing from their family if they so choose. Their choice, even if the "family" does not like it or agree with the decision that the "runaway adult made". They should respect the choice the person made.

Respect what Maura did and what Maura wants. If Maura wants to come back to the "family" she will, if Maura wants to phone she will also.

You cannot force her to come back so that she is no longer "missing" from the family.

LE has pulled out all of the stops in this case. Put a lot more time, money, effort and resources than there should have been.

You would think that LE is personally responsible for Maura running away.

You see with the Erica Green case - LE has already admitted publically that "they could have done" more. See accepting responsibility. That case was NOT in N.H.

I won't even get into the David Steeves case. Too complicated. LE did check out the call and did go to the location given. They did attend the scene. That again was not in N.H.

Even if Maura was found 10 minutes after the scene of the accident, LE has no legal right to detain Maura.

Or Maura would have to choose to go with LE, and since she fled the scene to avoid LE I would say that would be unlikely.

They would have had to have a "legal" reason for doing so, like charging her and arresting her.

[Hammerized]

Ones head may well be cushioned before it hits the windshield, but I believe that the point that Gatetrekker was trying to make is that there is a real possibility that there could have been injury without Maura's head hitting the windshield.
[...]
we don't know exactly what part of the car struck...either of these scenarios is possible and Gatetrekker makes a good point.
Exactly. Traumatic brain injury often results from a "coup-contra-coup." Like a whiplash movement, the head need not strike an object in order for a TBI to result. Just a quick movement is enough for the brain- which is floating inside the cranium- to strike the inner surfaces of the cranium and suffer some pretty harsh damage. Good post.

[Hammerized]

Wiplash is a muscle injury not a head injury. Your head would have to hit a solid object to substain an injury.

That is why(ta da) there are air bags. Maura was not going fast, nor did her head hit a solid object. See my prior post. "Your head" does NOT have to hit a solid object to sustain a brain injury, but the brain does. When the brain hits the inner surfaces of the cranium ("solid object" :doh: ) it is called a coup-contra-coup injury. Ta Da.

[Peabody]

<snip>

But I must ask why do *You* have such strong feelings about people caring for Maura?
Quoted Reply by Cyberlaw from Post #128

"The reason why I have such stong feeling about his family would take another page or so. Suffice to say" I don't respect people who do not take personal responsibility for their actions, blame others, are less than honest, trample other people's rights and "play" the media and have their own personal agenda in blaming others."



I find it very strange that ANYONE not knowing Fred Murray would have strong feelings about him. I have followed Maura's case very closely: having seen Mr. Murray on news reports, Greta Vansustern, CNN and Montel. One can see the constant pain in his face. My heart breaks for him and for anyone with a loved one that is missing.

What "action" has he not taken full "personal responsibility" for?

He "blames others". I am assuming that Cyberlaw is saying that Mr. Murray blames the police for not contacting him the night of Maura's accident. They certainly must shoulder part of the blame: the car that she was driving was registered in his name. He should have been contacted as owner of the car. LE KNEW from witness reports that a woman of about 20 years of age had been driving the car and was alone. They knew she was "absent from the scene of the accident" when they arrived. Leaving the scene of an accident is a criminal offense and is grounds for charges and arrest. Yet, on a dark road with the temperature at 12 degrees and falling, they left and did not search for her for 36 hours.

I have no idea how anyone could truthfully say that he has been "less than honest" ??? As regular readers know, I am acquainted with a Murray family friend that has known Maura since she was a child. This person has never accused Fred Murray of being a dishonest person.

If anyone does a public search of records in Haverhill, they will learn that ONE family complained about their "rights". This ONE complaint generated the letter from Haverhill Police Chief about the Murray's tresspassing. It is my understanding that the vast majority of people in the area want to help Fred Murray find Maura....I in no way minimize the rights any one, individual or group. But, it is also my understanding that Fred Murray has worked through these differences with this family.

"play the media" ? my guess is Mr. Murray has begged the media to keep Maura's story alive.........I commend him if that is playing the media. I may be mistaken, , however I believe Maura's case has not received nearly the media attention that other young women across the nation that have gone missing in the same manner have received.

Media attention often seems tied to the LE Agency. If LE is willing to speak to the media, the media will give both LE and the family time. If LE is not, as in Maura's case (and I know this is true - they have only spoken when they called a press conference AND never informed the family except for the interview by Lt. Scarinza on the news show out of Boston)

Yes, I would have to agree that Fred Murray MAY have his "own personal agenda in blaming others" if you are referring to the police, I know I blame them to a degree for not looking for her the night of the accident. I know it was a mistake on their part. Under the same circumstances, I also know that if anyone would listen to me I would be more vocal and persistent than even Fred Murray about the role that LE played in my loved ones' missing by their omission of actions. There are laws that make failure to act responsibily a serious crime.

It is obvious that Fred Murray's agenda is to find Maura. I commend him for his love and dedication to her. I wish I could say that I feel sorry for anyone that doesn't understand thet depth of love and dedication that he shows, but when it comes to being critical of those qualities, I feel only anger.........



This thread is about Maura's missing. I may be wrong, but in my opinion, none of us should be speaking ill of the people looking for her.

(unlike Cyberlaw who states in Post #49 in the Missing Young Women in NH: quote "Unfortunately I am right often, mistaken infrequently, but yes I do admit when I am wrong also.

I look at it as an unpleasant learning experience." )

I have always found any learning experience to be pleasant - Cyberlaw and I are of different opinions regarding more than just this forum)

:twocents: :twocents:

[sharon25]

Quoted Reply by Cyberlaw from Post #128

"The reason why I have such stong feeling about his family would take another page or so. Suffice to say" I don't respect people who do not take personal responsibility for their actions, blame others, are less than honest, trample other people's rights and "play" the media and have their own personal agenda in blaming others."



I find it very strange that ANYONE not knowing Fred Murray would have strong feelings about him. I have followed Maura's case very closely: having seen Mr. Murray on news reports, Greta Vansustern, CNN and Montel. One can see the constant pain in his face. My heart breaks for him and for anyone with a loved one that is missing.

What "action" has he not taken full "personal responsibility" for?

He "blames others". I am assuming that Cyberlaw is saying that Mr. Murray blames the police for not contacting him the night of Maura's accident. They certainly must shoulder part of the blame: the car that she was driving was registered in his name. He should have been contacted as owner of the car. LE KNEW from witness reports that a woman of about 20 years of age had been driving the car and was alone. They knew she was "absent from the scene of the accident" when they arrived. Leaving the scene of an accident is a criminal offense and is grounds for charges and arrest. Yet, on a dark road with the temperature at 12 degrees and falling, they left and did not search for her for 36 hours.

I have no idea how anyone could truthfully say that he has been "less than honest" ??? As regular readers know, I am acquainted with a Murray family friend that has known Maura since she was a child. This person has never accused Fred Murray of being a dishonest person.

If anyone does a public search of records in Haverhill, they will learn that ONE family complained about their "rights". This ONE complaint generated the letter from Haverhill Police Chief about the Murray's tresspassing. It is my understanding that the vast majority of people in the area want to help Fred Murray find Maura....I in no way minimize the rights any one, individual or group. But, it is also my understanding that Fred Murray has worked through these differences with this family.

"play the media" ? my guess is Mr. Murray has begged the media to keep Maura's story alive.........I commend him if that is playing the media. I may be mistaken, , however I believe Maura's case has not received nearly the media attention that other young women across the nation that have gone missing in the same manner have received.

Media attention often seems tied to the LE Agency. If LE is willing to speak to the media, the media will give both LE and the family time. If LE is not, as in Maura's case (and I know this is true - they have only spoken when they called a press conference AND never informed the family except for the interview by Lt. Scarinza on the news show out of Boston)

Yes, I would have to agree that Fred Murray MAY have his "own personal agenda in blaming others" if you are referring to the police, I know I blame them to a degree for not looking for her the night of the accident. I know it was a mistake on their part. Under the same circumstances, I also know that if anyone would listen to me I would be more vocal and persistent than even Fred Murray about the role that LE played in my loved ones' missing by their omission of actions. There are laws that make failure to act responsibily a serious crime.

It is obvious that Fred Murray's agenda is to find Maura. I commend him for his love and dedication to her. I wish I could say that I feel sorry for anyone that doesn't understand thet depth of love and dedication that he shows, but when it comes to being critical of those qualities, I feel only anger.........



This thread is about Maura's missing. I may be wrong, but in my opinion, none of us should be speaking ill of the people looking for her.

(unlike Cyberlaw who states in Post #49 in the Missing Young Women in NH: quote "Unfortunately I am right often, mistaken infrequently, but yes I do admit when I am wrong also.

I look at it as an unpleasant learning experience." )

I have always found any learning experience to be pleasant - Cyberlaw and I are of different opinions regarding more than just this forum)

:twocents: :twocents:
amen. I just think it's a complete waste of time to even respond to cyberlaw.
I really don't understand the point in trying to Justify why people should be out looking for her.

Does Cyberlaw have chlidren? or someone that he/she loves???
What if someone they had loved just suddenly went missing.. and then let's say cyberlaw tried in vain to get media attentiona to find his/her loved one.. and then let's just say that cyberlaw stumbled upon this thread and got to read about people arguing about why they should be "wasting" their time looking for his/her loved one.

Bottom line- This is a thread about FINDING MAURA


Cyberlaw- Make a new thread about why people are wasting their time somewhere else.

[CyberLaw]

From the website: Neuroskills.com

Contrecoup Brain Injury A specific area of brain injury located directly opposite to the site of impact to the head that results from linear violent collisions of the brain with the skull.

Coup = The actual point of impact on the individual's head or neck with another object.

From the Neurologychannel.com

Traumatic brain injury (TBI) is damage to the brain caused by a blow to the head. The severity of the injury may range from minor, with few or no lasting consequences, to major, resulting in profound disability or death.

There has been some reported instances of brain injury from non impact. But you would need considerable force to suffer same. Considerable force. Maura was very athletic and had good muscle tone and was young and healthy. It is much more common to suffer a brain injury from a blow, not "whiplash".

Amnesia is not a symtom of a brain injury that is non impact. Maura was speaking, rational, coherent, and there was minimal damage to her car.

You could speculate all you want....but the fact is, there is zero evidence that Maura had a brain injury from either accident.

Tell me to whom does it benefit to find a "missing person" who has voluntarly run away from their loved ones.

Does it benefit the "missing person" to be found, or does it benefit the "loved ones" to find the voluntarly missing person.

The loved ones are not acting in the interest of the missing person who has voluntarly ran away, they are acting in the interest of the "loved ones" to find the missing person. Your own interest, your own peace of mind. Not the missing person.

After all the missing person has run away from the very people that now have taken it upon themselves to "hunt her down". To find her......for their benefit, not the "missing persons' benefit.

Does Maura even want to be found. If she did, she would call her "loved" ones and tell them where she is.

She has not. The "loved ones" are distressed because they don't know where she is. They must find her. Even if she does not want to be found.

I will address Peabody post another time.

You see I am not a friend of the family, nor a friend of Maura so I look at facts with an unbiased, impartial manner. I have an "objective" view of facts.

I don't listen to what a friends of the family has to say. Or someone who knows the family for a long time or what the family has to say. They have a "personal" interest and view. I am inpartial and uninvolved.

You see mistakes are not pleasant. Not at all. If you learn from them it is a "learning experience". If you don't learn from them, then you don't learn and keep on repeating the same mistakes over and over again. If a mistake was pleasant, it would not be seen as a mistake.

The charging provision for leaving a scene of an accident that causes personal property damage or personal injury or death is that someone else has had to have suffered harm.

Leaving the scene of a single car accident does not meet those provision as the only property that was damaged was your own car. You have not "harmed" another person or another person's property. There is no victim.

So again, Maura could not have been "legally" detained by LE even IF they found her 3 minutes from the accident.

They would not have enough evidence to even determine if she was driving. They had a vague description.

So who else was the "victim" in Maura accident. No one.

Usually when a person removes themselves or their car from a single car accident it is to avoid LE and a breathalyzer. Why else would they leave........unless they have something to hide and avoid "criminal responsibility".

[tuppence]

Guess what: The letter is part of this "investigation", it is protected by the Freedom of Information Act. That would be why Fred Murray et al, will not and cannot have legal access to it.
.

Could you please provide a link to the source that stated there was a letter? I don't recall seeing this in anything I read about this case.

Thanks
tuppence

[Grassyknoll2]

TITLE XII
PUBLIC SAFETY AND WELFARE

CHAPTER 172
STUDY, TREATMENT AND CARE OF INEBRIATES

Section 172:15

172:15 Treatment and Services. –
I. When a peace officer encounters a person who, in the judgment of the officer, is intoxicated as defined in RSA 172:1, XXVII, the officer may take such person into protective custody and shall take whichever of the following actions is, in the judgment of the officer, the most appropriate to ensure the safety and welfare of the public, the individual, or both:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xii/172/172-15.htm

Perhaps the laws are different in our 50 states than in Canada...they seem to be in NH. This has been posted before on this site.

P.S. Blocking/ignoring is good, but downright confusing at times...curiosity and all that when others respond.

[Peabody]

As stated by Cyberlaw in Post #133:

"I don't listen to what a friends of the family has to say. Or someone who knows the family for a long time or what the family has to say. They have a "personal" interest and view. I am inpartial and uninvolved."


Absolutely NO ONE had more interest in Maura's welfare than the family or those who have known her for a long time. They are more informed and KNOW THE TRUTH.

Maura's family and close friends DO NOT HAVE TO SPECULATE, GUESS, OR THEORIZE when it comes to analyzing Maura's personality, personal qualities traits and those whom she loved dearly. They KNOW these things.

Certainly because she has vanished without a trace there has been much speculation, guessing and theorizing about HOW.

Cyberlaw, you CANNOT possibly know the TRUTH as do Maura's family members and friends. Not knowing the truth puts you at a distinct disadvantage. Not knowing Maura, the family or a friend does not give you any advantage. I don't think because one is involved they are necessarily partial or blind to the facts.

There have been too many impartial experts contacted by the Murray's who believe that Maura has been harmed. (And I am not referring to physics.)

Why in the world would Maura's family and those that love her be so biased as to believe that someone has harmed her. Their greatest desire is for her to be alive and well.........even without them. That she has run away is the best possible sceniaro in her missing.

If anyone doubts that those who love her only want her alive and well, I suggest that you read the message posted by "Sharon", the mother of Maura's boy friend at
http://www.mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=76
The message is mostly in a blue font and dated May 04 2005 and signed Big Bill and Sharon

[Peabody]

Could you please provide a link to the source that stated there was a letter? I don't recall seeing this in anything I read about this case.

Thanks
tuppence
Lt. Scarinza of NH SP stated repeatedly in a one hour "Chronicle" special out of Boston on Channel 5 ( I believe ) that Maura had left a note to her boyfriend. He also implied that the note was a suicide note. I can find no documentation of "Chronicle" on the internet. It is a widely watched and very reputable news show out of Boston. Surely, others on this fourm heard Lt. Scarinza's comments and may comment furthur.

One written reference can be found:

http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2004/09/09/413fbf44caa40?in_archive=1
"Sometime between Sunday and Monday morning, she packed up all her belongings in her dorm room, to include taking all her pictures off the walls, taking everything out of her bureaus, [and] put them all in boxes [and] left [them] on her bed," Scarinza told WCVB-TV, "[She] left a personal note to her boyfriend on top of the boxes."


Also, please read the response to this artilce by Sharon Rausch.

She explains that her son was invited by UMASS Police to go through Maura's room. I know that NH SP had not been to UMASS at that time and that UMASS Police told the boyfriend that there was no note to him....that the room was just as Maura left it when he entered it.

That is just one of numerous things that drives the people searching for Maura crazy!

It is one thing to make a mistake and not notify the owner of the abandoned car or search for the "missing" young woman. All of us are human and make mistakes. Perhaps it was even a mistake when they first said that there was a letter. But it was brought to their attention that there was no letter....... UMASS Police confirmed to the family that there was no letter. They had done an inventory of the room. Yet, NH SP will not issue a statement of correction - they continue to mislead the citizens of their state.:banghead:

[Hammerized]

From the website: Neuroskills.com

Contrecoup Brain Injury A specific area of brain injury located directly opposite to the site of impact to the head that results from linear violent collisions of the brain with the skull.
You don't seem to understand.

Maura need not have hit her head against a windshield in order to sustain TBI from a coup-contra-coup. All she needed was a violent jar, or even her head hitting a flippin' airbag to give her floating brain enough momentum to strike the inner surfaces of her hard, bony cranium.

Can you hear me, Major Tom?

[Peabody]

P.S. Blocking/ignoring is good, but downright confusing at times...curiosity and all that when others respond.
I am well aware that many of us find certain posts to have a negative impact on what this thread is all about.........:razz:

It is also my opinion that the purpose of those posts is to shut down any discussion :behindbar .......and I am not referring to discussing differing opinions as to what has happened to Maura.

Therefore, I suggest that to all people interested in an ongoing and productive discussion to ALWAYS ignore :silenced: any post they perceive as being nonproductive AND to ALWAYS post something to the contrary WITHOUT addresssing the nonproductive post.



What do you say, fellow sleuths:slap:

[sharon25]

I am well aware that many of us find certain posts to have a negative impact on what this thread is all about.........:razz:

It is also my opinion that the purpose of those posts is to shut down any discussion :behindbar .......and I am not referring to discussing differing opinions as to what has happened to Maura.

Therefore, I suggest that to all people interested in an ongoing and productive discussion to ALWAYS ignore :silenced: any post they perceive as being nonproductive AND to ALWAYS post something to the contrary WITHOUT addresssing the nonproductive post.



What do you say, fellow sleuths:slap:
I agree. I think her family would be Heart broken to see a thread that has their daughters name on it, that is supposed to have the intent of helping give information about her disappearance, but instead has constant bickering between people about even if she is really missing.

She is not at home, has not been at home, therefore she is missing.
She is missing to the family and friends.
and until they find out otherwise they will try to find her
and I will try and keep her name alive and in the memory
of people.

[gatetrekker44]

CyberLaw should post elsewhere-his/her posts are designed to do nothing more than to shut down discussion/theorizing on Maura's disappearance. And let me clue you into something about the brain and traumatic injury-just as boxers develop Parkinson's from repeated blows to the head-ANY trauma to the head and neck region causes the brain, which is floating within the skull in fluid, to be "bounced" back and forth within the confines of the skull. Since the skull is hard and the brain soft tissue, even impact from an airbag deploying can cause this effect. This is the reason children are not supposed to sit in the front seat of most cars-because the airbag deployment can kill them from this effect. Since Maura is a petite person, she would be MORE susceptible to this effect, especially since she had TWO accidents with airbag deployment in a relatively short span of time.
Oh and one more thing-IF Maura was planning to "run away" to start a new life, I don't believe she would have called ahead to inquire about room availablility-another piece of the puzzle that if it hadn't been for her family, would have NEVER surfaced because LE NEVER checked the phone records! :clap: :clap:

[sharon25]

For what it's worth- Airbags do save lives yes... but you can ask my aunt just how they feel..

She was in a nasty accident and the airbag did save her life..
The scary thing is how fast they explode out at you.
On the airbag you could see ALL her makeup that was on her face
and been nicely imprinted into the airbag.

and she had a concussion(sp?) from the airbag deploying as well.

:twocents:

[CyberLaw]

Grassyknoll2: I can understand if you do not have a legal background or Law Degree that legislation can be confusing.

I will attempt to put this clearly and simply: Read the heading of the section: It is: Title XII , The Study, Care and Treatment of Inebriates. Inebriates is the key word.

This alone would tell me that this does not apply.

Also if a legislation relies on another area like: in the judgment of the officer, is intoxicated as defined in RSA 172:1, XXVII, the person must meet this definition for 172.15 to apply.

If the person is not intoxicated as defined in RSA 172: 1 XXVII, then the section of 172.15 does not apply.

Also: is incapacitated as defined in RSA 172:1, XXVI

You see the person must meet the criteria of either of these sections for the legislation that you quote to apply.

For example: A man is walking down Main Street, without shoes, or a shirt. He is falling down drunk, stumbling, incoherent, shouting, threatening, weaving in and out of traffic, almost hit by a car, driver are swerving to avoid him, he is oblivious to his safety and welfare. He is endangering other people. People are scared of him. He could get hurt himself also. But he is sooo drunk that he does not notice or care.

Well what do you think, when LE sees him do you think that the man is intoxicated and inebriated.

That he cannot look out for his own safety and welfare.

That the public needs protection from him.

Yes.

So Maura did not even come close to this defination of RSA 172.1 XXVII, not even remotely coming close.

But I can understand your mistake. It is very common for a layperson without a Law Degree.

Murraydyer quoted this before also. I did not respond, because it it very obvious that it does not apply to Maura.

All I had to do is read the first line to know that it did not apply.

In Law you have to pay attention to every word. An "or" could make a huge difference.

Now I could go in great detail, but I won't.

I could comment on every section, but just read it through.

Good try though.......kudos........from Canada.

[nhjane]

CyberLaw Quote:
"Usually when a person removes themselves or their car from a single car accident it is to avoid LE and a breathalyzer. Why else would they leave........unless they have something to hide and avoid "criminal responsibility"."

I'm not getting your logic, it seems to me you are contradicting yourself ... she was drunk enough to have to run away on a very cold, dark night in feb. in the middle of nowhere to avoid the police and yet you are saying in the above post that she wasn't drunk enough for the the police to arrest her? Not a very well thought out theory, CyberLaw, in my opinion.

BTW ... the US has 50 states, not 51. I wouldn't want you to look any more foolish than you already do ....

[CyberLaw]

Peabody: The only way a person can know the truth, is if it can be verified. What they believe to be the truth(as they see it) and what actually is the truth(as verified)are two totally different things. Trust me as a Lawyer I know this for a fact.

One person believes as the truth that HIV can be caught by shaking hands. But the verified truth is that it can't.

You can show them 50 reports stating same and they still hold true to the truth as they see it and believe it.

You see Scott Peterson is innocent according to his Father. Who else should know his son better then his own Dad. Dad knows the truth. Dad says: Scott was only convicted because he had an affair and that is the truth according to Lee Peterson. That would be the truth as he sees it.

But the verified truth: Scott was convicted and sitting on death row. That is a far cry from the truth as Lee Peterson sees it. You see Scott's family "truth" is that he is innocent.

A belief is just that, what a person believes. So you don't know the truth, this family does not know the truth because if they did, they would have verification and evidence supporting same. They believe what they believe......what they choose to believe.....what they want to believe........how these beliefs fit in with their version of the "truth".

I don't think because one is involved they are necessarily partial or blind to the facts.

Oh please....if I had a dime for everytime a family member or friends of the accused just knows that he/she is innocent and that there is no way they could do what they are accused of doing....I could retire.

They ignore facts and evidence that does not support the truth as they see it that their son/daughter is guilty.

The DNA is wrong, the eye witness is blind, the fingerprints were planted, the jury is out to lunch, the judge is asleep, the Crown is mistaken, the evidence is wrong, LE is lying and fabricating evidence, the victim is lying, the doctor is lying, the nurse is lying just like the Doctor. You see they know their child. Their child would never commit a crime.......they know the truth.......

Even when their child is convicted of a crime. They just know the truth that he/she is innocent. They just know this......and believe it to be the truth.

So if there is anything that does not support the family "belief" that Maura is a victim of foul play....then they ignore it and pretend it does not exist.

All of the evidence(that the family chooses to ignore) point to the fact that Maura planned and ran away.

But the family again refuses to believe this.

Of course being her family they just "know the truth" as they see it. Ignoring everything else..........and calling everyone else liars.

There have been too many impartial experts contacted by the Murray's who believe that Maura has been harmed.

You said the word belief again. Tell me who these experts are, their qualifications, what "evidence" they relied upon to base their belief upon and I will look into it.

I put money that the family did not tell these experts anything that does not support their belief that Maura ran away. The family is not impartial in contacting experts, they just want others to agree with their position.

Did all of these experts work for free.........did the family tell these experts about everything........or what they believe......

That she has run away is the best possible sceniaro in her missing.
Well that is the sceniaro........as supported by the known facts and evidence to date. So why does this family choose to "ignore" the best possible sceniaro and believe the worst.

[Yeah,me]

OK, I've not familiarized myself with the member terms too well....so if this is too out of line, please give me a warning and I won't do it again.

CyberLaw, now I sort of understand what you're about. You've got so much 'book-learnin' that you've knocked all of the common sense out of your brain. Try to think "outside the box" when reading these posts. Nobody here is trying to be an expert except for you and your failing miserably.

[PrayersForMaura]

I came to this site to read about Maura and now I can't bear to even read this thread any more, let alone have civilized written discussions. :(

[CyberLaw]

Brush up on the law, get a Law Degree, barrring that I will fill you in

CyberLaw Quote:
"Usually when a person removes themselves or their car from a single car accident it is to avoid LE and a breathalyzer. Why else would they leave........unless they have something to hide and avoid "criminal responsibility"."

I will give you a little lesson in Law. I go out for dinner. I have 5 glasses of wine. I am intoxicated. I know I should not be driving, but I do. Just so everyone knows, I don't even drive after one drink. I like being a lawyer......if I was a criminal, I can't be a lawyer. Also I like being alive.....and not killing other people.

I get into an accident. Single car crash I hit a tree. I know if I stay with the car, LE will show up, observe signs that I am drunk and administer a breathalyzer. I will face several criminal charges. After all I was driving while I was drunk, how else did I crash my car. It is my car and I am at the scene. DUI and DWI are a possibility.

But if I leave the scene. There is no way LE will know my level of booze or if I was driving the car or what my level was 2 hours ago when I had the accident.

I am not with the car.......So I am like "home free".

I fled to avoid "criminal responsibility. No one can prove I was driving the car while I was drunk. Or even that I was drinking....they don't know where I am.....

Hello Officer, thank you for finding my car. It was stolen.......you found it.

Oh no, you mean the "thief" smashed my car into a tree.

No, Officer I was home here where I live, all night. I just noticed my car was stolen and I was just about to report it. I was asleep, I woke up for a glass of water, looked out in the driveway and my car was gone. That was like 30 seconds before you showed up......

Good thing my insurance will cover the damage to the stolen car, I do know that if I smashed the car and booze was a factor, my insurance will not cover the damage.

Good thing my car was stolen............

I am now home and my car was "stolen" by an unknown person.

I cannot be charged with any criminal offence.

I hope I made that simple enough for you to understand.

I really don't have a problem with the logic, it is very simple. The law is not a theory, it is fact and the law.

Please just remember this: Drinking and driving kills. No question.......please don't do it. Be responsible. Please value your life and everyone else on the road and be responsible.

Legally drunk while driving and drunk is too different things. You are impaired at .08 to drive, but you do not appear to be drunk otherwise.

She did not have to run away, she choose to run away. She knew that she would be charged, no question as she was drinking while she was driving. Open container of booze in the front seat. She would have smelled of booze. That is probable cause for a breathalyzer. That is why Maura did not wait for LE and did not want the Bus driver to call LE.

Grassyknoll2: This whole section 172.1 only has to do with a person under the influence of illegal drugs, not booze. It does not define alcohol or even mention it. It does not even apply at all...........my god, thanks.......when you quoted this. I wrongly assumed that you knew it had to do with booze(why else would you post it here). I had no idea that you did not check out the legislation that 172.15 is relying upon.

Living in Canada, I would assume(my big mistake)that when a person posts RSA from New Hampshire, they know what they are talking about as a citizen of the USA.

So when 172.15 started talking about drug consellors, treatment centres, I had no idea that the drugs they were referring to are like Cocaine, pills, meth, etc. It is not like I live in N.H. or the USA.

I should have checked 172.1 before I posted. To make sure YOU got YOUR facts straight.

I relied upon your mistake. But then again, my mistake was not verifying your post.

Lawyers should always confirm.............!!!!!!!!!

You see: XXVI. "Incapacitated" means that a person as a result of his or her use of drugs is in a state of intoxication, or mental confusion resulting from withdrawal, such that:
(a) He or she appears to need medical care or supervision by approved drug treatment personnel to assure his or her safety; or
(b) He or she appears to present a direct active or passive threat to the safety of others.
XXVII. "Intoxicated" means a condition in which the mental or physical functioning of an individual is substantially impaired as a result of the presence of drugs in his or her system.

[jodierenee]

if she really did run away to avoid LE, why would she leave an open container in the front seat?

[Peabody]

if she really did run away to avoid LE, why would she leave an open container in the front seat?
IF she really did run away to avoid LE it is still a far cry from running away from her family, her boyfriend and her life.:waitasec:

[silver]

"A belief is just that, what a person believes. So you don't know the truth, this family does not know the truth because if they did, they would have verification and evidence supporting same. They believe what they believe......what they choose to believe.....what they want to believe........how these beliefs fit in with their version of the "truth"."



You are right ... this family does not know the truth, nor does LE ... that is why they search, simple as that!


Rhetoric is just that ... rhetoric! :cool:

[LillyRush]

I don't know how you can compare this case to Jennifer Wilbanks. She was gone for all of what, 3 days? In case you haven't checked a calendar lately, February 2004 - when Maura disappeared, is well past us and over a year ago. The reason why people were led to believe that Jennifer Wilbanks was supposedly acting out of character is because that is the story that her family and that of her fiance was telling everyone. But we know that the Wilbanks family was not being completely forthcoming on that because they knew about her history, even if the Masons didn't know everything. Despite the fact that you don't like Fred Murray, I've never heard him say that Maura was perfect and we all know that things like the phone calls and her drinking have been made public for all to read. Maura's last known situation was at the very least dangerous, being alone in below freezing weather in the middle of nowhere where your cell phone doesn't work and neither does your car anymore. That is absolutely nothing like the Jennifer Wilbanks scenario.

[Peabody]

I don't know how you can compare this case to Jennifer Wilbanks. She was gone for all of what, 3 days? In case you haven't checked a calendar lately, February 2004 - when Maura disappeared, is well past us and over a year ago. The reason why people were led to believe that Jennifer Wilbanks was supposedly acting out of character is because that is the story that her family and that of her fiance was telling everyone. But we know that the Wilbanks family was not being completely forthcoming on that because they knew about her history, even if the Masons didn't know everything. Despite the fact that you don't like Fred Murray, I've never heard him say that Maura was perfect and we all know that things like the phone calls and her drinking have been made public for all to read. Maura's last known situation was at the very least dangerous, being alone in below freezing weather in the middle of nowhere where your cell phone doesn't work and neither does your car anymore. That is absolutely nothing like the Jennifer Wilbanks scenario.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[Peabody]

Quote by Cyberlaw from the Thread:
Mystery Briton Doesn't Speak, Plays Piano

CyberLaw (http://websleuths.com/forums/member.php?u=4419) http://websleuths.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
Registered User



Yeah I just read this story on the BBC.

Interesting. I hope that they find the family of this man.

I wonder if he was performing somewhere, so that is why he was in a formal suit. Or maybe he came to England for a wedding.

But apparently he does not speak and has "mental health issues." I am thinking autism. Or they are right, he could have had some sort of trauma. Or he has autism and has no current support network, surrounded by strangers, and now feels trauma.

He may have travelled from another part of the U.K. or the EU.

At least he is in a country that is very caring and has excellent medical care.

England is ab fab.



I am confused - :confused: :confused: :confused:

We don't know Maura's state of mind - perhaps she suffered some type of mental or emotional breakdown. We have been told that she was crying hysterically on the Thursday before she disappeared. We know that she chose to leave suddenly......and we know little else.

We don't know "piano man's" state of mind other than he doesn't speak. We do know now that he has been identified.

There is no doubt that this man is extremely distressed and depressed," said Camp, the social worker. "He has started crying over the last week or so. It may be that some sort of trauma has made him like this."

http://www.boston.com/news/world/eu...tery_piano_man/ (http://www.boston.com/news/world/eu...tery_piano_man/)



Now Cyberlaw has told us he/she does not want Maura's family to find her because as an adult, she has the right to be missing. We won't go into all of the details about Cyberlaw believing that Maura ran away from controlling parents and controlling boyfriend when he/she says she has no connection to the family and will not believe the family because they are biased.

In Cyberlaw's quote, we see compassion for both "piano man" and his family because Cyberlaw hopes that his family finds him.

I am confused as to why Cyberlaw has no compassion for Maura and her family :confused: :confused: :confused:

[nhjane]

Awfully quiet in here lately.

It's my guess that a certain poster who shall remain nameless has temporarily won the war of words here, but as far as the battle to find Maura and find some peace for all who love and miss her, this person has contributed nothing.

Perhaps sweet silence is a welcome relief ...

[kholloway]

LE is not allowing Fred Murray to search an area that Maura was last seen over a year ago. He does that on his own for himself, by his own choice. His own agenda

I would say that Mr Murray's "agenda" is to find out what happened to his daughter! If you have a child, of any age, and they are missing, you look anywhere and everywhere to find them. A logical place to look for clues of what has happened to them is the last place they were seen. DUH!


The man is obviously desperate and frustrated.


Of course "the man", "the father", is desperate and frustrated. As any parent would be and should be facing the nightmare in which he lives every day. Is there some other way that he should be? I for one admire Fred Murray for the courage and persistence that he has shown for over a year now to not give up the search for his beloved daughter.


Maura is missing but by choice. Her choice. Voluntarily. So she is missing from the family, but often the person running away does not see themselves as missing. The family sees them as missing, but the runaway does not.



How would you know this? Do you have information on Maura that needs to be shared with LE and the family? You speak as if you have first hand knowledge. I suppose you blew a hole in your own theories here by admitting that a person missing does not even see themselves as missing. If that's the case then I suppose that we should find them and let them know! If a person is missing from their family, then they are missing by all accounts! Especially when you are talking about a 21 year old young woman, alone in a world that we all know from this board can be very dangerous for everyone, especially a young woman, alone and vulnerable.


An adult is free to "runaway" and go missing from their family if they so choose. Their choice, even if the "family" does not like it or agree with the decision that the "runaway adult made". They should respect the choice the person made.


I beg to differ, a missing adult is someones child. They may be free to leave their family if they choose but a family also has a right to know that they are alive. In the world that I live, families help each other, an adult person who is "running away" just may need help. They may not even realize that they need help, but there is nothing at all wrong with their loved ones reaching out to them and offering to help them out of the situations that they may find themselves in. Once there is proof that a person has left on their own and do not wish to be located, then and only then should the family, LE and the public stop looking for them and searching for the truth.

Respect what Maura did and what Maura wants. If Maura wants to come back to the "family" she will, if Maura wants to phone she will also.


This respect can only be given to Maura once it is determined that she left on her own and that harm has not come to her. You are assuming that Maura is able to come back to her family or phone home. First the family must know that she is able to do so, then they can respect her wishes, whatever they may be.

You cannot force her to come back so that she is no longer "missing" from the family

I have not heard anything about anyone trying to "force" her to do anything. I have only heard news of a father and a family desperatly trying to locate a missing loved one. Wake up call! That is exactly what you are supposed to do when a loved one goes missing!

LE has pulled out all of the stops in this case. Put a lot more time, money, effort and resources than there should have been.

This is the reason that we have LE, not to only sit behind a tree or a road sign and wait for someone to speed past them to meet a monthly quota! This is their job! There could never be too much resources, effort or money spent to find a missing young woman. I cannot believe that anyone would say such a thing. I should hope that if you or I were to become missing tomorrow that the same resources would be spent on us.


Please, try to have more compassion for not only this family but others that are facing the same nightmare. If you have not walked in Fred Murray's shoes or the shoes of any parent, spouse, child or friend of a missing person, you cannot possibly understand the trauma and effect that this tragedy has on every aspect of ones life. At least attempt to be a little more sensitive with your post.

:twocents:

[Grassyknoll2]

Gatetrekker....I think this is what you were talking about

http://www.airbaginjury.com/how_can_the_brain_be.htm
Did you know?
Air bags can hurt or kill, now or later!
Air bags can cause immediate impact trauma or death.

Air bag fumes can cause immediate or delayed sickness or unnecessary death.

Air bags can cause delayed neurological muscle damage or brain injury.



The brain is vulnerable to traumatic damage in two ways. The cerebral cortex can become bruised - contused - when the head strikes a hard object (or a hard objects strikes the head). Or, the deep white matter can suffer diffuse axonal injury when the head is whiplashed without hitting a hard object (or being hit by one). In serious whiplash injuries, the axons are stretched so much that they are damaged.



When a moving head comes to a quick stop, the brain continues in its movement, striking the interior of the skull. This can cause bruising of the brain (a contusion) and bleeding (hemorrhage). Injury in these types of accidents occurs in parts of the brain closest to the point of impact, quite often the tips of the frontal and temporal lobes. In cases of blunt head trauma the brain can also be injured directly opposite the site of trauma -- on the other side of the brain, an injury known as contrecoup. This injury typically occurs when a moving head strikes a stationary object like the windshield. At impact the brain opposite the site of impact is pulled away from the skull, injuring the brain there.



Indirect Trauma
Medical research has discovered another mechanism of brain injury besides direct blunt trauma to the skull. The well-known phenomenon of the Shaken Baby Syndrome is an example. Severe shaking greatly stretches and damages delicate nerve cells, at times causing very significant injury or even death. In adults, severe whiplash can involve severe forces that may shake or rotate the brain enough to cause permanent brain damage.

Diffuse Axonal Injury
The brain consists of billions of nerve cells located in the gray matter which communicate with distant nerve cells through long nerve fibers called axons, composing the white matter. Severe sudden twisting or torquing of the brain, as occurs in a sudden acceleration/deceleration - whiplash -- accident, can stretch, twist, and damage these delicate axonal fibers. Under the microscope the axonal damage is called Diffuse Axonal Injury (DAI). Although diffuse axonal injury generally results from a severe whiplash injury that renders a patient comatose, recent studies have shown that diffuse axonal injury can also occur - but to a lesser degree -- when there has been only brief loss of consciousness (LOC). Because Diffuse Axonal Injury causes microscopic damage, it cannot be visualized on CT or MRI scans.

http://www.airbaginjury.com/how_can_the_brain_be.htm

[gatetrekker44]

You posted EXACTLY what I have been describing-and as been stated so many times in relation to airbags, they are ESPECIALLY dangerous to the short statured!

[Grassyknoll2]

You posted EXACTLY what I have been describing-and as been stated so many times in relation to airbags, they are ESPECIALLY dangerous to the short statured!
No problem...I just remember the blinding headache I had for several days after one accident...strange part was that nothing hurt for a couple of hours.

I was talking with someone about this and they were telling me that there is also a problem with a powdery substance on and in the airbag. Apparently, they have the potential to cause severe problems such as anaphylaxis, which is a total body allergic reaction that can interfere with breathing and cause a feeling that the throat is closing. I haven't found much online about it. Mostly, I've found companies trying to sell an alternative to what is currently used.

The things I've learned from reading Websleuths........

[Peabody]

<snip>
I was talking with someone about this and they were telling me that there is also a problem with a powdery substance on and in the airbag. Apparently, they have the potential to cause severe problems such as anaphylaxis, which is a total body allergic reaction that can interfere with breathing and cause a feeling that the throat is closing. I haven't found much online about it. Mostly, I've found companies trying to sell an alternative to what is currently used.

The things I've learned from reading Websleuths........My sister had her airbag deploy in a very minor accident........hardly any damage to the car, but like Maura, her car skidded on an icy road on a curve and she slid off the road. She told me that she could neither breathe nor see for quite a length of time as a result of the powder........the powder and the force from the blow of the airbag caused her to be very disoriented for quite awhile. The accident happened less than a mile from my home, yet she didn't even think to call me on her cell until her husband arrived and asked if she had called me......they live a 40 minute drive from me.........so, we do know that it does not take a serious accident to totally disorient a person.

[silver]

Anaphylaxis, or anaphylactic shock, is a systemic allergic reaction that can be fatal within minutes, either through swelling that shuts off airways or through a dramatic drop in blood pressure. Anaphylaxis occurs in allergic individuals when they are exposed to an allergen to which they are allergic—this is almost always a protein that is treated by the immune system as a foreign substance. Contact with or ingestion of this allergen will set off a chain reaction in a person's immune system that may lead to swelling of the airways, loss of blood pressure, and loss of consciousness, resulting in anaphylactic shock. Some anaphylactic reactions involve only one organ system, such as the respiratory tract or skin. However, in anaphylaxis, several systems are usually affected simultaneously, including the upper and lower respiratory tracts, cardiovascular system, and gastrointestinal tract.

http://www.anaphylaxis.com/pro/6_1_3.cfm (http://www.anaphylaxis.com/pro/6_1_3.cfm)



Biohazard precautions
It is commonly acknowledged that the sudden, large-scale increase in latex glove use by health care workers since the 1980s lies at the heart of the growing problem of latex allergy. As health care workers sought to protect themselves from AIDS and other blood-borne diseases, latex glove use became virtually universal in hospitals and other medical and dental facilities. Patients, and especially health care workers, were exposed to more latex than ever before, and many have become sensitized to it.

http://www.anaphylaxis.com/pro/6_2_3.cfm (http://www.anaphylaxis.com/pro/6_2_3.cfm)


People have varying degrees of sensitivity (http://www.anaphylaxis.com/pro/6_2_3_1.cfm#severity#severity) to latex that depend on several factors including the amount and type of latex exposure. Those who are most at risk (http://www.anaphylaxis.com/pro/6_2_3_1.cfm#risk#risk) of suffering from latex allergies include individuals who come in frequent contact with latex, mainly health care workers, and those who suffer from other allergies.

In general, a person's allergic reactions to latex become progressively worse with continued exposure, requiring less protein to trigger a reaction.

The severity of a particular allergic reaction to latex depends on several factors:

Degree to which a person has been sensitized to latex
Amount of latex protein to which a person is exposed at any given time
Whether the latex comes into contact with skin, mucous membranes, or internal body tissues
The use of powder, such as the cornstarch often used to coat the inside of latex gloves, exacerbates latex exposure. The latex protein can adhere to the powder, and as gloves are snapped on and off, the latex-coated powder becomes airborne. As the latex particles are dispersed by the powder, they may contaminate entire rooms by lingering in the air and being inhaled, or by landing on people, equipment, and surfaces. As they are inhaled, they may cause respiratory problems such as asthma and allergic rhinitis, not to mention anaphylaxis. Particles may land on mucosal areas, which are particularly susceptible to latex sensitization. For these reasons, health care professionals, hospitals, policy makers, and even manufacturers are pushing the use of nonpowdered gloves.

Individuals most at risk of suffering from latex allergy include those who are frequently exposed to latex and those who have other allergies.

The highly exposed
Latex allergy seems to occur in people who develop a sensitivity to it after repeated exposures. The people who are at greatest risk of suffering allergic reactions to latex include:

Health care professionals
Cafeteria workers
Janitors
Children with congenital defects (such as spina bifida)
People who have had several surgeries
Individuals with congenital urinary tract problems16
Occupations that involve repeated, ongoing exposure to latex

[nhjane]

I would have to agree that an airbag deployment could certainly have left Maura confused. It seems logical that the police woud have deduced that too. They must consider all possibilites, right? I don't understand why an immediate search was not done. It seems to me that even without the airbag deployment, just the weather and the darkness and the time factor of her disappearing would have been enough to warrent more activity. I would like to think that if it had been me alone on that road at night in winter, some sort of organized effort would have been made.

Does anyone know exactly what was done by police apart from looking for tracks on the road or into the woods in the immediate area? It seems according to news acounts that the bus driver was the one who actually got in his car and drove down roads loking for Maura ...

What were the police doing?

Did they radio the surrounding towns with BOL reports?

If Maura was running down the road and seen by the contractor at 8 pm, why was she not seen by anyone else?

[Gabby]

<snip>
Usually when a person removes themselves or their car from a single car accident it is to avoid LE and a breathalyzer. Why else would they leave........unless they have something to hide and avoid "criminal responsibility".


Answer: SOMEONE TOOK THEM?????

[Heron]

The man is obviously desperate and frustrated.

The reason why I have such stong feeling about his family would take another page or so. Suffice to say" I don't respect people who do not take personal responsibility for their actions, blame others, are less than honest, trample other people's rights and "play" the media and have their own personal agenda in blaming others.

Snipped for brevity, and yes, I kept in the two pieces that happen to disturb ME. That was MY Agenda.

I am new to this forum but I agree with another poster that I am not sure of YOUR agenda in sticking around. Why are you interested in debunking the ideas prevalant here, or is that the whole of it? You're just oppositional?

Mr. Murray's "agenda" should be painfully obvious. How can you blame him for it, or for his "frustration" and "desperation?" It doesn't make sense to me.

Maybe there is something personal, or you have some prior similar events or experience in your own life and this is touching a painful chord. This would make some sense. Care to share them?

peace

[gatetrekker44]

You have jumped into the fray that I and several others have been having with CyberLaw for awhile now. While I believe that EVERYONE is entitled to voice his/her opinion, CyberLaw has taken an almost fanatical track in trying to convince fellow posters that Maura voluntarily disappeared. CyberLaw has been downright nasty and at times, just plain cruel in expressing his/her beliefs and belittling the Murray and Rausch families for their tireless search for answers. Everyone is welcome to voice their opinions-but we also keep in mind that the families of the missing often read what is here.
Please don't let the nastiness of an individual to stop you from expressing your opinion-since you are new you bring a fresh perspective to Maura's disappearance-and I for one am anxious to hear your thoughts!



Bring Maura home!

[Peabody]

I am new to this forum .......... <snip>
peace

Heron,

Welcome to Websleuth's and to Maura's thread.......

[Gabby]

You have jumped into the fray that I and several others have been having with CyberLaw for awhile now. While I believe that EVERYONE is entitled to voice his/her opinion, CyberLaw has taken an almost fanatical track in trying to convince fellow posters that Maura voluntarily disappeared. CyberLaw has been downright nasty and at times, just plain cruel in expressing his/her beliefs and belittling the Murray and Rausch families for their tireless search for answers. Everyone is welcome to voice their opinions-but we also keep in mind that the families of the missing often read what is here.
Please don't let the nastiness of an individual to stop you from expressing your opinion-since you are new you bring a fresh perspective to Maura's disappearance-and I for one am anxious to hear your thoughts!



Bring Maura home!




I agree 100% here... Don't let the Cyberlaw's keep you from giving new insite to things.

[Heron]

Thanks! for the welcome, peeps. I did just jump in, I know it's weird when you have history on a board and then someone comes in and starts talking about stuff that is old news. So I appreciate the patience. :D Thanks also for the reminder that family may visit and read. peace.

[CyberLaw]

By Tommy Witherspoon Tribune-Herald staff writer
Friday, May 27, 2005

Her daughter, Brandi Stahr, had been missing without a word or a trace since October 1998.

In fact, she and Brandi's stepfather Ken Dickenson were preparing to have Brandi declared legally dead in October and planning to cash in Brandi's life insurance policy, Ken Dickenson said.

Before that, Dickenson's last words to her daughter had been "I love you," after they argued on the telephone about Brandi's college grades and exorbitant credit card charges in May 1998.

Investigators spent "hundreds of hours" on the case, Cawthon said, searching wooded areas with dogs, talking to former roommates and boyfriends, putting Brandi's story in prison newsletters hoping that someone there would come forward with information and tracking down numerous leads.

Circumstances of this case indicate that foul play is possible

In the end, it was an anonymous tip to the DPS Missing Persons Clearinghouse that led authorities to Brandi.

The caller had seen information about Brandi on the clearinghouse Web site and said she was living in Florence, Ky.

Brandi's family says that there still are many unanswered questions. Ken Dickerson said he thinks it never occurred to Brandi that they might think that she had been killed.

"She said, 'Mama, there were things going on that I couldn't handle and the longer I was gone, the harder it was for me to pick up the phone,'" Ann Dickenson said. "I can understand that. Last night when we talked, it was strange talking to her, but she seemed happy to hear from me. I didn't want to drive her away, so I didn't ask a lot of questions."

Brandi was doing well at Texas A&M and seemed to enjoy it there. Her grades were good and she had a part-time job conducting phone surveys for the university research institute, her mother had said.

She was so disappointed in herself for not being able to hack it in college," Ken Dickenson said. "She was just ashamed of that fact. She just had so much pride that she didn't think she could face everybody back home."

.
So the moral of the story: Just because a young college students goes missing, possibly for years, does not mean that anything along the lines of foul play has happened to them.

Even is foul play is "possible"

They can easily be living in another state, another town, have new friends and new life and be quite happy.

Wihout their "family".

Even if others see them as young, vulnerable, in this cruel world all by their little lonesone, that is a misconception, the person is perfectly capable of taking care of themselves.

They can and they do quite well thank you......without the support of Mommy and Daddy.

It is not like the family found them, not like LE(not for lack of trying)found them either.

So like I said before, a person who chooses to go missing can stay that way for as long as they want to.

If it was not for the anonymous call to DPS, Brandi would still be "missing" to her family and declared legally dead.

As for the airbags: Show me the facts and evidence that Maura received any injuries in either car accident and I will entertain that evidence.

Possibly, maybe, could be, might have been, are all just cause for speculation.

Without facts and evidence.........sorry life just does not work that way.......people just don't rely on "stories". They want something to back up the "story"

I have no doubt that Maura is doing just fine.

Just like Brandi is.........


.

[tuppence]

Cyberlaw,

While we can all argue over whether its possible she just ran away at the end of the day no one knows- plenty of people have disappeared with no trace only to turn up kidnapped/brutally murdered - others like the girl in your story ran away. I think the real question we have to ask ourselves is given the uncertainty is it more irresponsible as the parent to look or not look?

We all know the more parents get involved and bring things to the media, the more likely they are to get solved.

Her parents are doing the only ethical thing they can do - assume the worst case scenario and do everything they can to help find their child and hopefully prevent others from being harmed.

It sure would be easier to just say let LE deal with it but I wouldn't have much respect for them if they took the easy way out.


What's the worst that happens if they search and she has
run away? She's annoyed if she's found? On the other hand it might be healing for her to know people cared enough to look.

On the other hand what's the worst that could happen if she's been kidnapped/murdered and they let it drop? A murderer goes unnoticed/not caught to kill again? Worse she's being held against her will ( has happened that people have been held for years)


It seems like a no-brainer that her parents as her best/only representatives in an unknown situation need to act as best they can as her advocates in case the worst case scenario is true. I don't see how they could sleep with themselves otherwise.

[nhjane]

Tuppence,
That was very well put although as a reader of this thread I know you are just wasting your breath trying to reason with CyberLaw. I completely agree with the family doing the only thing they can by searching for Maura themselves, the alternative is simply to forget her and I know that is not going to happen.
Perhaps it would be easy for CyberLaw to just erase a loved one from his mind, all that "righteousness' must fill the empty place, but that is not the case for Maura's family. I for one hope that Maura is living somewhere else and making the most of her life and if her family could be made aware of that, perhaps they could find some peace from this nightmare of questions. Keep The Faith ...

[Grassyknoll2]

Well said Tuppence...and in the previous post, it seems that the parents' efforts to keep information in the media worked in the end...someone spotted her and tipped off LE....pretty much what the Murray family hopes for...keep Maura's story in the media....somebody out there knows something...

[silver]

As for the airbags: Show me the facts and evidence that Maura received any injuries in either car accident and I will entertain that evidence.

Cyberlaw, As for the airbags: Show us the facts and evidence that Maura did not receive any injuries in either car accident and we will entertain that evidence.

Seems we are in the same boat, so to speak, as to evidence ... unless there is something you know that we don't.

We want something to back up your "story."

[watchingeye]

I am not going to stop checking into this thread periodically but I have promised myself to just skip over certain posts! It has worked well for me to just ignore them and cut to the chase. I have read enough of those posts to know that they will ramble on and on and that they are close minded. It keeps me coming back and not focussing on the negative jabs at the Murray family. Also, then that poster doesn't have the satisfaction of a reply!

[LillyRush]

The reason why people were led to believe that Jennifer Wilbanks was supposedly acting out of character is because that is the story that her family and that of her fiance was telling everyone.

Your kidding....you mean"some" families "just tell a story" what a shock, good thing I am sitting down........jk.

They just tell a "story" that they want people to believe, expect them to believe. You know their version, their belief......

You mean they deny things and withold things from the public.

They don't tell everything, are not honest and forthcoming.

I am like sooooo shocked. Really I am. I am just so astounded.

You mean they don't tell the whole story, so the family can be protrayed in the best possible light.......the way the family wants to be portrayed. The missing person portrayed......

What family problems they may have had that may have been relevant, any problems the missing person may have had with relatives/fiance/BF/, you mean they are not forthcoming about this.....OMG, I am again so shocked.

Tell me somethng like I don't know......but then the family says" we are the family of the missing person, believe us, we are the family. So like we know.......


Do you think they are the only family that does not tell people everything and are not comptely forthcoming about what lead up to a person going missing.?

Do you think that families of other "missing people" know why a person went missing, but don't disclose it.

All they say "is the person had no reason to go missing, they did not run away, we had a wonderful relationship, she had a perfect relationship with the BF.

Do you think this may be just another story.......since they don't or won't be forthcoming.....

If Jennifer's family(and others families) have done it, do you think that other family members in other familes do the same.?

I have a specific family in mind......also a BF, BF mother too.

Too bad no one is "of good character" to admit the truth.

But we know that the Wilbanks family was not being completely forthcoming on that because they knew about her history, even if the Masons didn't know everything..

Well I guess that just may apply again to other families of missing people also.

Have a specific family in mind....I do......I certainly do.

What is a put forth and what is reality are two different things.

They are just extremely selective in what they are forthcoming about. Lying by ommision is still lying.

They pick and choose what they want to disclose. How they want themselves and the missing loved one ......let me see I am looking for the right word. Spin.

Then they "accuse" other people, lets just say LE of not being honest of hiding things.

Really......

Again, some missing people can and will stay missing. That is their right and choice as an adult.

They can survive on their own without their family. Let me repeat that again.....missing people do not need their loved ones, friends or family.

Jennifer wanted to stay missing, but could not, that is why she came home after 3 days.

She intended and wanted to stay missing.

But you miss the point......she had no money, had no skills, had no food, was cold, had no place to sleep.

So she had no choice to "come home", more like phone 911 and lie her face off.

The FBI took care of this poor women, fed her, gave her clothes, bought her a plane ticket home. They acted like a Mommy and Daddy to Jennifer. She needs to be taken care of and went to live with her parents. She obvioulsy is like a little girl who needs her Mommy and Daddy to care for her like a child, not an adult.

Maura is bright, driven, smart, resourceful, organized, she could easily make it on her own, no problem. She is not dependent on her parents to take care of her. She has lived on her own and taken care of herself.

She does not need to be taken care of, she can take care of herself. Be it for 15 months or 50 months.

She does not need Mommy and Daddy to take care of her.

She did not need to call Mommy and Daddy after 3 days.

After all she gave herself a week head start and planned on going missing.

Thank you Lillyrush, you are very helpful.

Like a witness for the "other side" who makes my case during cross.

You know you could have responded to my points (in blue) in a less condescending manner but I guess that would have been asking too much.

Draw as many similarities as you want but the fact still stands that Jennifer Wilbanks had a history of doing the very specific thing (walking out on marital engagements and a history of criminal behavior/criminal deception) that her family went on tv claiming was so 'out of character' for her.

Give me one example where Maura Murray was known to leave her car stranded and crashed in the middle of nowhere, then disappear without telling anyone. So far the closest you have come to claiming that she has a history of leaving (not on this thread, but the older one) was when you pointed out that she 'left' West Point after which she transferred to her current U of Mass school. So there were a couple of friends who, appeared to be, miffed that Maura just left w/o really telling them about her transfer plans until already leaving. How on earth does transferring to a different college qualify as having a history to 'just leave'? :confused: It's not like she hid those plans from people who are closer to her like her family or boyfriend. Yes, West Point is a big name school and has more noteriety than U Mass..

...So this means what? a person is not allowed to simply not like West Point or seek other higher education options if they want to w/o there being some sort of horrible reason behind it? I'd love to hear your argument for how that is the same thing as the last known situation she was last involved in, in NH. What exactly are the Murrays denying? Don't you think by now that if Maura had a history of just hightailing it for weeks and months on end that we would have heard about that by now, somehow?

[gatetrekker44]

Don't waste your breath trying to get CyberLaw to justify the rhetoric that comes forth in his/her posts. Please notice that even AFTER all the info about airbag injuries was posted, and the fact that Maura had two acidents within a week or so where there was airbag deployment, that subject was studiously ignored!

And to address a point CyberLaw brought up in a previous post about

As for the airbags: Show me the facts and evidence that Maura received any injuries in either car accident and I will entertain that evidence.

Since LE didn't see fit to do much of any investigation into the accident or Maura's disappearance-NO ONE KNOWS! So would you please take your circular arguments elsewhere! They may be fine in a courtroom, but they are certainly counterproductive in this forum! :razz: :razz: :razz:

[Heron]

Thinking of Maura this morning.

[curious1]

For the new folks the 'Ignore' function has made my life much more enjoyable. :D

I stated in an earlier post that Maura may have been trying to get away for a few day or even a week, but not forever. I went away for weekends during college without telling anyone. Glad I did not go missing then and in NH.

Thoughts and prayers for Maura and her loved ones.

[GinaAngel435]

I'm new to this forum as well, but have read up on Maura and continuously hope & pray that she is found and can be safely returned to her family. These cases bother me... I think mainly it's because there is no "closure" for the family, friends or people involved. They just don't know what happened... and as months stretch into years, it's harder to stay positive and hope.

I've tried reading CyberLaw's posts, and found that the length & content turns me off completely. If they had something even remotely positive to say that was worth reading, perhaps I'd would take the time to read. Their "I know everything" attitude is doing nothing for the Murray family (although I can't see that they really want to do anything for them, except to name them all in some sort of conspiracy theory). I applaud each of you on here who continues to fight along with the Murrays, not against. There's nothing wrong with opinions, we all have them. But when you continuously attack based on your "knoweldge", being you have no personal connections with this case what-so-ever it proves one thing. You don't really know what you're talking about.

Maura, I certainly hope you make it home safely to a family who loves & misses you. To the Murray & Rausch families, you are not alone. We all want her to return safely to you.

Love & Prayers From FL,
Gina

[Peabody]

Those of you who have followed Maura's case know that her loved ones are convinced that NH LE have never taken the proper course of investigation in her case.

I know from family sources that they do not believe that LE negligence during the first 24-36 hours was intentional. They happen to believe that those decisions were mistakes and/or oversights.

But, after those 36 hours they are convinced ( and have evidence to back up their opinions - as you know the boyfriend provided Maura's cell phone bill just 3 weeks after her missing and they NEVER investigated the calls ) that decisions were made that were negligent ( and in my opinion, most likely made to cover their disastrous decisions during the first few days )

I have stated before that I do not think anyone goes into law enforcement with the intention of being a poor officer. However, just like any occupation, there are very poor employees. The reasons are varied. However, even the most dedicated and capable will make mistakes. To protect the citizens that LE vows to protect, they must learn to admit any mistakes and do the best they can do after the fact; it benefits no one for them to choose to not acknolwedge their error.....or for them to dig in their heels and continue with spin to cover-up their mistake(s) instead of at changing their course of action and beginning an investigation in such a manner that they make the best of a bad situation.


If you are interested in helping with Maura's case, it certainly would not hurt and it just might help to put pressure on a proper investigtion if you email the NH Attorney General, the head of the NH SP, the head of State Police Troop F and other officials in NH.

Their email addresses are:

Attorney General Kelly Ayotte kelly.ayotte@doj.nh.gov (KELLY.AYOTTE@DOJ.NH.GOV)

Colonel Booth - Head of NH SP lbooth@safety.state.nh.us (LBOOTH@SAFETY.STATE.NH.US)

Lt Scarinza - Head of NH SP Troop F jscarinz@safety.state.nh.us (jscarinz@safety.state.nh.us)

Sgt Bruno - Sgt in charge of Maura's case rbruno@safety.state.nh.us (RBRUNO@SAFETY.STATE.NH.US)

NH SP Lt. Conte - met with Att General & others at the request of Fred Murray rconte@safety.state.nh.us (rconte@safety.state.nh.us)


You can find other information on these websites:


The NH State Goverment website: http://www.nh.gov/index.html


NH State Govt Employee Phone and Email Directory http://admin.state.nh.us/directory/search_internet.asp



I bring this up because of the recent confession by Kansas City LE that they "dropped the ball" in the Precious Doe case where a *relative* contacted LE for over a year and yet LE did not follow through.




"The tipster who provided key information in the Precious Doe murder investigation called police 50 times starting last year, Kansas City police acknowledged Thursday. Police said they were looking at ways to avoid such missed opportunities in the future.

Thursday’s comments followed an internal review of the last year of the four-year investigation. The review found only one return phone call from a detective to the tipster. Just three of the tipster’s calls were logged in the case file.

'Yes, we dropped the ball,' homicide Sgt. Dave Bernard, who led the murder investigation for four years, said Thursday."

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/11801685.htm


I would appreciate other's thoughts and opinions.:twocents:

[gatetrekker44]

And I know this was something I had posted on Maura's previous thread that was inadvertantly deleted(for those who are new-there were approx 500 posts regarding Maura previously and when an admin tried to "move" the thread, they were lost! And no, it's NOT a conspiracy!).

That there is a possibility-probably remote, but there-that someone connected to LE was involved in Maura's disappearance. Since this area of NH had had LE involvement in a double homicide, the thought had crossed my mind that MAYBE-just maybe, all of the omissions by LE regarding evidence were actually calculated towards the end of making it impossible for any other LE agency(such as the FBI) to build a case against anyone. And CyberLaw, before you get your knickers in a twist-I am basing this on one irrefutable FACT-and that is the FACT that LE returned Maura's personal items to her family-and then requested them BACK five months later!

I am currently studying Forensic Biology-and I can't begin to tell you the possible weath of trace evidence that may have been lost forever because of this action by LE. And this leads to a bigger question-if LE is so sure that Maura voluntarily disappeared-then WHY ask for the items back? My understanding is that is was to do some type of "testing"-but again-if LE TRULY believed Maura was missing by her own choice, what were they "testing" for. Is it possible that they wanted to determine if there was anything incriminating related to one of their own?

Any thoughts on this?


Bring Maura home!

[CyberLaw]

And CyberLaw, before you get your knickers in a twist-I am basing this on one irrefutable FACT-and that is the FACT that LE returned Maura's personal items to her family-and then requested them BACK five months later!

Thursday July 1, 2004- Caledonian Record - Gary E. Lindsley.

He said the Major Crimes Unit, and specifically, Sgt. Charles West, has been involved in the Murray disappearance since three days after she disappeared.

Scarinza also said detectives from Troop F and the Major Crimes Unit have been used during the missing person's investigation.

He was emphatic that the items from Murray's car are not only now being looked at.

"The items have already been gone through once," Scarinza said.

When asked whether any of the items, including clothing and books, had been analyzed for forensic evidence in the beginning of the investigation, he said, "You don't just send a bag of stuff down there.".

However, he did say the items in Murray's black 1996 Saturn were inventoried by Haverhill police officers during the first week of the investigation back in February.

In addition to diamond jewelry, books, clothing and some alcohol found in the vehicle after the accident, some items were missing.

"She had a (black) backpack when she left Massachusetts," Scarinza said. "We have not been able to locate the backpack in the car or her (dorm) room. That was the pack she used at school."

Scarinza also said when Murray left the Amherst campus, she had with her a box of wine, and bottles of vodka, Kahluha and Bailey's Irish Cream.

The box of wine, of which most had been spilled, was found in the car. But some of the other bottles were not found.

Because it has been nearly five months since the night Murray disappeared, and because state police believe there is not a lot to look for, Scarinza said it's appropriate to have the items in the car at the time of the accident returned to investigators so they can be held as possible evidence.

"I don't know what we will do with them," he said. "We want to have all the items if we need them. At this point, we are holding them for evidence."

That includes Nicholas Howe's book.

"For instance," Scarinza said, "is there something significant about that book? I don't know."

If there is something highlighted in the book which may help with the investigation, they will have the book readily available.

End.

I am at the Cottage on weekends these days......

It appears that they did not seize the items in the aspect of a criminal case, but in the aspect of a "well if anything further develops, we will have the items in a box on a shelf in the basement if we need to readily access them."

This would be a precaution, a just in case, maybe, could be, will wait and see, someday, one day, type of scene.

Before items are sent for forensic investigation, other evidence of a crime which has been committed has to suport this testing and a criminal case opened.

Since no crime has been committed to date, no evidence of a crime being committed, how then would you do forensic tests on a "voluntarly" missing person items and the question would be why..............

You know CSI: CRIME Scene Investigation.

I don't recall a MAYBE CRIME Scene Investigation.

For me being negative, I seem to be the only person on this site that believes that Maura is safe, sound and alive(like Brandi).

Everyone else takes the negative view that she is a victim of foul play and her body is somewhere.

Guess what, some people are just a little bit higher up in the gene pool to make assumptions, speculatons, conjecture, theory, when there is no fact in evidence to support those claims in reality.

In Law we call that "smoke and mirrors".

You see LE looks at cases from a legal point of view, those pesky things called, evidence and fact. That is what is presented in court.

It applies in life also...........if a person is accused of cheating at school, well that is just a baseless allegation unless there is evidence and facts to back it up.

An allegation without evidence and fact is just an allegation.

Fred Murray would be well served to learn the difference between the two.

He makes a lot of baseless allegation against LE without facts and evidence to back up his claims.

He does not have an investigative or LE background to "second guess" LE.

Neither does anyone to date, on this board.

[Rocky]

For me being negative, I seem to be the only person on this site that believes that Maura is safe, sound and alive(like Brandi).

Everyone else takes the negative view that she is a victim of foul play and her body is somewhere.

Guess what, some people are just a little bit higher up in the gene pool to make assumptions, speculatons, conjecture, theory, when there is no fact in evidence to support those claims in reality.

In Law we call that "smoke and mirrors".

You see LE looks at cases from a legal point of view, those pesky things called, evidence and fact. That is what is presented in court.

It applies in life also...........if a person is accused of cheating at school, well that is just a baseless allegation unless there is evidence and facts to back it up.

An allegation without evidence and fact is just an allegation.

Fred Murray would be well served to learn the difference between the two.

He makes a lot of baseless allegation against LE without facts and evidence to back up his claims.

He does not have an investigative or LE background to "second guess" LE.

Neither does anyone to date, on this board.


smiles and holds up a mirror...


I guess that's why this is called a discussion board and not a court of Law


everyone is entitled to their opinion...


even you...


I hope you're right and she does show up some day...

[Gabby]

[QUOTE=CyberLaw] <snip> He does not have an investigative or LE background to "second guess" LE.Neither does anyone to date, on this board [QUOTE]




Cyber.... don't be too sure about this....

[CyberLaw]

I have not read anywhere that Fred Murray is either a current LE, former LE or anything else.

If he was, then of course his comments, behaviour and conduct would reflect that training and background.

He would be well awae that LE has no "legal" mandate to find his voluntarly missing daughter.

I do recall(correct me if I am wrong)that his occupation is a Nuclear Technician.

At least the family has the comfort of knowing that Maura planned on running away, unlike some runaways that leave no clues that they planned on ditching their family.

The only responsibility that LE has is to determine if a person went missing voluntarly or not. If they did not go missing voluntarly, then LE would investigate further.

Of course this would be classified as "suspicious".

If they did go missing voluntarly, that is when the "investigation" ends.

Why would LE investigate a "crime" when there has been no violation of the law and no crime has been committed.

To spend time, money, resources and "taxpayers" money to "reunite" a voluntarly missing adult with their family because the family "misses" the voluntarly missing adult.

Especially when the voluntarly missing adult has not contacted their family(by choice)for an extended period of time and does not wish to do so.

So LE is surposed to "hunt" them down and tell them to "call home" because their family is worried about them.

That is funny..........

[Gabby]

<snip>So LE is surposed to "hunt" them down and tell them to "call home" because their family is worried about them.That is funny..........


Cyber there is nothing even remotely funny about what this family is going through...NOTHING.

[gatetrekker44]

There was an individual on the original "Maura" thread who was a RETIRED NH POLICE PERSON-and he stated in no uncertain terms that the investigation into Maura's disappearance was slipshod and botched-and since he worked within this LE system, I wil take his WORD over anything anyone else says UNLESS they are a LE entity. In my post I was speaking strictly from a forensic standpoint-the more items are touched, packaged, touched again, repackaged, and touched yet again means that trace evidence is lost and items are contaminated. And if the Haverhill PD was SO SURE that Muara was missing of her own accord, they would NOT have asked for the items to be sent back!


Bring Maura home!

[murraydwyer]

If they did not go missing voluntarly, then LE would investigate further.CL

Since as Gatetrekker indicates, the State Police retrieved Maura's belongings at the end of last June...about a week short of five months later...seems their thinking may have been running in a direction other than runaway and perhaps they may well have been investigating further...seems logical that if they changed their minds about having her possessions...perhaps they were not as sure that she was a runaway as they were initially....Don't think they've been available to talk to the press since then either...talked pretty freely before that....

[KatherineQ]

I was thinking of Maura Murray when it was announced that Brandi Stahr was using her real name and social security number. And yet, somehow, the cops aren't "allowed" access to the social security number - I guess until the family attempts to declare their loved one dead and collect insurance.

Have the Murray's had access to Maura's SSN, does anyone know? The Brandi Stahr case was such an eye opener - here she was, using her public name and her public ID, and no one, not even the cops, could access it.

Something needs to change. If only to tell the family members, the SSN is currently being used by the correct holder of that number. Period. That might be enough, and still allow for privacy of the person who wants to run away.

[Peabody]

<snip>

So LE is surposed to "hunt" them down and tell them to "call home" because their family is worried about them.

That is funny..........
According to Dictionary.com there are 3 entries for the meaning of "funny"

3 entries found for funny.

1. a. Causing laughter or amusement.
b. Intended or designed to amuse.

2. Strangely or suspiciously odd; curious.

3. Tricky or deceitful


Therefore, when Cyberlaw declared it is "funny" that LE is supposed to hunt down a missing person, my *hinky* meter goes off the scale.

1. Now, we see that "funny" can mean causing laughter or amusement as well as intended or designed to amuse..........aside from CL's opinion, is there anyone who believes that this definition applies to the Murray's expectation for LE to look for their daughter? Please websleuther's let's hear your opinions?!?

2. In light of being strangely or suspiciously odd or curious. Yes, it is my opinion that it is "funny" as to how NH LE has handled this case.

3. And that brings us to the final definition of "funny" which is tricky or deceitful: a very apt description of NH LE's relationship with Fred Murray.

.........strange how one reads of so many cases where LE takes calls or even makes calls to family just to let them know the case has not been forgotten and to assure them they will keep on keeping on. LE speaks of how they feel they are a part of the missing person's family. These cases have no more "evidence" of foul play than Maura's......it is just that someone doing their job is touched by the situation..........I personally am still waiting for the officer in NH that looks at this situation and determines that he/she will not let this case be shelved.

Fred Murray met with the NH Attorney General on the one year anniversay of Maura's missing. In the resulting meeting with NH LE, he was told that NH LE works on Maura's case every day and that they have spent "thousands of hours" on her case......granted there are those of us who doubt this assertion, but Cyberlaw, if NH LE wants the family to think they are working on the case, this should totally refute your claim that they know Maura has run away and they are not at liberty to inform her family that she is well or to advise Maura to ' "call home" because their family is worried about them. '

There is nothing funny about Maura's missing. There is a great deal of mystery and untold sadness.

[Peabody]

I was thinking of Maura Murray when it was announced that Brandi Stahr was using her real name and social security number. And yet, somehow, the cops aren't "allowed" access to the social security number - I guess until the family attempts to declare their loved one dead and collect insurance.

Have the Murray's had access to Maura's SSN, does anyone know? The Brandi Stahr case was such an eye opener - here she was, using her public name and her public ID, and no one, not even the cops, could access it.

Something needs to change. If only to tell the family members, the SSN is currently being used by the correct holder of that number. Period. That might be enough, and still allow for privacy of the person who wants to run away.
I don't pretend to know the federal laws that govern social security. But, I do know that a state can have someone declared legally dead: something that a family may find very difficult to do. There are also surely some criteria that would meet requirements for a "search warrant" that would allow SS to release information to LE.

I was told that the Social Security Administration has the responsibility to forward correspondence to the last known address of record *when* any party takes the correspondence to a SS office in a SASE envelope. (envelope has name only - SS provides address and mails)

I also know that the Murray's have contacted SS and did not learn anything that would assist them. However, anyone who receives their Social Security projected benefit statement knows that listed wages run more than a year behind......therefore, IF the projected benefit statement is mailed to Maura's home address NEXT YEAR with no earnings in 2004, the family will know that she is not using her ss #.

[kholloway]

Ok, I'll say how I feel about CL referring to Maura's case and any other as "funny". My thought is, if CL does not wish to help in cases of missing persons then he/she should not post at all. The only thing that I can gleam from any of their post is the intent to hurt and harm this case and any other. It is apparent that this person has never loved a child and had the need to know that they are safe in this ugly world. This person sounds as if they have a personal grudge for Fred Murray and furthermore sound as if they have personal knowledge of Maura's whereabouts. If you do not have first hand knowledge, how can you speak so matter of fact?

As for the social security number, our LE here tells me that they are running Jennfier and Adrianna's numbers. I am being told by others that LE can run the socials and that if they did not on Brandi's then someone was not doing their job, or maybe only done it for so long and then stopped. Our LE have not even mentioned needin a suphonia (?). I hope that they are telling the truth about running my girls socials. Of course, it would not suprise me if they were not. So much of their work has been "shady", to say the least. At this point they are not doing anything at all and have done very little throughout all this time. Our LE definetly botched our case, so it would not surprise me in the least to know that NH had done the same.

I have said it before and I will again, I greatly admire all the loving effort that Fred Murray has given to the search for Maura.

These are simply my opinions!

www.missingwixchildren.homestead.com

[KrazyKollector]

Ok, I'll say how I feel about CL referring to Maura's case and any other as "funny". My thought is, if CL does not wish to help in cases of missing persons then he/she should not post at all. The only thing that I can gleam from any of their post is the intent to hurt and harm this case and any other. It is apparent that this person has never loved a child and had the need to know that they are safe in this ugly world. This person sounds as if they have a personal grudge for Fred Murray and furthermore sound as if they have personal knowledge of Maura's whereabouts. If you do not have first hand knowledge, how can you speak so matter of fact?

As for the social security number, our LE here tells me that they are running Jennfier and Adrianna's numbers. I am being told by others that LE can run the socials and that if they did not on Brandi's then someone was not doing their job, or maybe only done it for so long and then stopped. Our LE have not even mentioned needin a suphonia (?). I hope that they are telling the truth about running my girls socials. Of course, it would not suprise me if they were not. So much of their work has been "shady", to say the least. At this point they are not doing anything at all and have done very little throughout all this time. Our LE definetly botched our case, so it would not surprise me in the least to know that NH had done the same.

I have said it before and I will again, I greatly admire all the loving effort that Fred Murray has given to the search for Maura.

These are simply my opinions!

www.missingwixchildren.homestead.com (http://www.missingwixchildren.homestead.com)I am so sorry that the LE has done so badly in their sworn profession. They have let you down and moreso, let Jennifer and Adrianna down. {{HUGS}}

I totally agree with everything you said above. Well done!! :clap: :clap:

I hope that soon, your DDs and DGDs case will be solved.

[CyberLaw]

LE did exactly what they are surposed to do, they investigate, along with the FBI and determined that Maura went missing on a voluntarly basis.

I don't know why that is so difficult for some people to understand. What is the learning curve here.?

So how was an investigation slipshod. LE has spent a lot of time, money and resources to determine if a crime has been committed. No crime has to date been committed, so why on earth would LE still be involved.

Does the Brandi case not raise a "red flag" to anyone.

She want out of her way to avoid being found. Everyone thought that she was a "victim" of foul play. She was in hiding. From her "loved" ones.

But she was not a "victim". There was no evidence supporting this conclusion. It was the improper conclusion considering the events to date. LE "wasted" a lot of time, resources and money looking for a "missing" person who was a victim of a crime when she was alive and well.

There is ZERO indication that they are holding Maura's personal items pending a a criminal investigation.

It is just a future percautionary measure. Like carrying a spare tire in your car. One day you might get a flat, then of course the spare would be available. Or you may never get a flat tire, but the spare is there just in case.

Maura took her booze, but left her personal items. That would indicate to me she took what she valued. Brandi took her purse and knapsack. That is all. All these years later, she is just fine thank you. In another state. A long way from home.

What I find "funny" is that people expect LE to be their own personal "missing" persons police. Find my son, find my daughter, I miss them, I want them home, I need peace of mind. I need them in my life. How "dare" they run away from ME. Look what they put ME through.

An adult child "chooses" to be in the life of their parents or not. It is not up to the parents to make this choice for the adult child.

In Texas alone - 70,000 people go missing each year.

Should LE hire another 70,000 - 140,000 more Police Officers to "aid" families in finding their "missing" loved ones.

If the parents don't know where to start looking for their child in the whole of the USA, how the heck do they expect LE to find them.

BTW - my 13 year year old went "missing" last week. The emotional reaction(which was not mine)was that he was kidnapped, a victim of foul play, meet someone on MSN, a predator "got him".

His Father was ready to go door to door in a town of 4-5 million people, call the Military, OPP, RCMP. Canada wide bulletin. OMG the "child is missing", get his picture on the newscasts, print up posters.

Guess what - LE said most likely since the weather is nice, he is 13, he skipped school. Guess what logic prevails - that is exactly what I thought and both LE and I were correct.

He was found exactly where I told LE most likely he would be found.

He was more afraid of my reaction and what kind of "trouble" he is in with me that anyone else.

He was surposed to go to Horseback riding camp. But as a "punishment", he gets to spend two weeks with Grandma.

Grandma is thrilled to have him there, my son is like please God not Grandma, anything but Grandma.

[KatherineQ]

CyberLaw - why did you call LE at all, if you knew your son is the kind to run off?

If you knew where he was, why didn't you just go get him youself instead of wasting some cop's time finding your delinquent kid?

[Hammerized]

If you knew where he was, why didn't you just go get him youself instead of wasting some cop's time finding your delinquent kid?
The apple falling from the tree theory. Maybe it's genetic. :banghead:

[djEnlighten]

Cyber, your redundancy throughout this thread is a testament to your strong belief about missing people – you have a unique view regarding those who vanish and it is substantiated in your unique experiences. You might have a point regarding those who disappear on their own accord but there has to be an expectation, if and when a person chooses to disappear, that they at least allow their loved ones the knowledge that they are alive but are not willing to reappear or be visited. This would save their loved ones and LE a lot of time and energy in the efforts that most often result from a person’s disappearance.

Unfortunately Cyber, in this day and age we cannot err on the side that those who are missing are not in danger – to do this would be unthinkable, almost like not coming to the aid of a pedestrian who has been struck by a vehicle – regardless of whether the pedestrian jumped in front of the vehicle or not.

If a parent believes that their child was met with foul play and thinks that LE has not done enough to find them that is their right as parents, no matter how old their child is and no matter how well LE has followed “the book” in conducting their investigation… because a good parent cares about the safety and well-being of their child, not necessarily because they are looking to control them or are selfish. Who is more selfish, the parent who wants to know their child is all right or the child who feels it is all right to sever ties with their loved ones?

[sassy_texasbelle2]

Cyber Law you have more than shown you have no caring for this family so why keep preaching to us. We care...we will continue to care. If this site annoys you so much why keep coming back? I am sure you can find somewhere out there that all your negative talk will be welcome. Then you can trash this family til your heart is content. It is not here that is for sure.:furious:

[Grassyknoll2]

This person sounds as if they have a personal grudge for Fred Murray and furthermore sound as if they have personal knowledge of Maura's whereabouts. If you do not have first hand knowledge, how can you speak so matter of fact?

As for the social security number, our LE here tells me that they are running Jennfier and Adrianna's numbers. I am being told by others that LE can run the socials and that if they did not on Brandi's then someone was not doing their job, or maybe only done it for so long and then stopped. Our LE have not even mentioned needin a suphonia (?). I hope that they are telling the truth about running my girls socials. Of course, it would not suprise me if they were not. So much of their work has been "shady", to say the least. At this point they are not doing anything at all and have done very little throughout all this time. Our LE definetly botched our case, so it would not surprise me in the least to know that NH had done the same.

I have said it before and I will again, I greatly admire all the loving effort that Fred Murray has given to the search for Maura.

These are simply my opinions!

www.missingwixchildren.homestead.com (http://www.missingwixchildren.homestead.com/)Thanks for sharing that information...I've read so many stories like yours and it is so disturbing. I'm not quite sure when LE decided or for that matter whether they decided that Maura may have disappeared voluntarily (it is true it was a theory, but again, why go to her sisters five or so months later to retrieve her belongings). But the fact remains that the night of the car crash, it appears from the initial news reports that there was a young woman around 20 who had been in a car crash who seemingly disappeared within a very short period of time in 12º degree temperatures...and they don't seem to have done a lot of searching until about 30 or so hours later and dog lost Maura's sent within feet of the accident site on a road that would seem to be used mostly by locals and nobody ever reported picking her up. Now one interesting aspect of this is that almost three months later somebody reported seeing her about five miles away....if the dogs lost her scent near the scene...did she get a ride for only five miles........and then what, get another ride...from what I've read there is not much of anything but state forest beyond that point...yet nobody has come forward to say they gave her a ride after 16 months????????????

[kholloway]

I totally agree, Grassy

After all this time, one would think that someone would have come forward it they gave her a ride. To me the only explanation of the dogs losing her scent is that she got into or was put in another vehicle, seems very unlikely that she "arranged" for someone to pick her up in this remote sight if she had planned to disappear. Just as in my children's case, Jennifer's boyfriend claims that someone picked her up in a white car, yet no one has come forward in almost 15 months to say that they gave her a ride. I don't understand why LE does not do more to locate a missing person right away. I think that it is pure laziness, they would rather believe that a person left on their own than to have to get with it and do the job that our tax dollars pay them to do. Then when they come to their senses, it is too late, tracs are covered, clues are lost, and memories have faded. It's sad and heartbreaking for those of us who are living this as our life. We beg, we plead, we cry, we pray, all to ears that do not hear. I will continue to think and pray for Maura everyday with Jennifer and Adrianna, that they will be brought home to us or that the people who took them from the people they love too soon will be brought to justice.

[watchingeye]

I'm telling you...just ignore those posts...if you are here and want to know the truth...those long posts are a time and space waste. Compassion speaks loudly!

[kholloway]

I'm telling you...just ignore those posts...if you are here and want to know the truth...those long posts are a time and space waste. Compassion speaks loudly!


I'm sorry if my post was too long. I do tend to get very long winded as I feel very passionatly about this issue. For Maura and my babies, Jennifer and Adrianna!

[Peabody]

I'm sorry if my post was too long. I do tend to get very long winded as I feel very passionatly about this issue. For Maura and my babies, Jennifer and Adrianna!
Kholloway,

I feel quite confident that watchingeye was not referring to your post as being too long............please note w says "compassion speaks loudly".

All of your posts are filled with compassion.

prayers for Maura and your girls!

[nhjane]

Watching Eye is right ... we all need to ignore CL and stop trying to justify our concern and compassion for Maura and her family's situation. We should be discussing the case, not wasting our time reacting to someone who obviously is so closed minded that they can't hear anything except what they are so positive is the truth. (Personally, I find that "funny", as in odd or strange, certainly not humourous.)

As to the matter of police investigation ...

I actually live close to the area when Maura had her accident. This is a very small area, a collection of small towns. I have heard things that lead me to believe that LE is still investigating this case. Specifically, that people have been questioned and searches have been done. Of course, I don't know these things to be fact, I did not see it with my own eyes, but people talk ... and you have to take it for what it's worth. After all the exaggeration and theories, (remember the old "telephone" game?) it has been my experience that most rumours have their beginnings in some type of fact. And the fact is that even up here, bad things happen.

In my mind, it stands to reason that LE could not possibly impound and store all the personal effects of every person that goes "missing" on the "off chance" that they might, maybe need to look at this evidence at some future date ... where would they put it all?
It's a ridiculous supposition. Since LE has re-impounded Maura's car, personal effects and computer, they must have thought that at the very least they needed to re-examine the evidence. Not to mention the fact that the Murray family has stated that NHSP told them that they are still working the case every day ... I hope with all my heart that this is true and that LE has their reasons for not being forthcoming with the Murray family.

[Grassyknoll2]

NH Jane...After all the exaggeration and theories, (remember the old "telephone" game?) it has been my experience that most rumours have their beginnings in some type of fact. And the fact is that even up here, bad things happen.

In my mind, it stands to reason that LE could not possibly impound and store all the personal effects of every person that goes "missing" on the "off chance" that they might, maybe need to look at this evidence at some future date ... where would they put it all?

It's a ridiculous supposition. Since LE has re-impounded Maura's car, personal effects and computer, they must have thought that at the very least they needed to re-examine the evidence.

These are really good points Jane...I agree that there is always a grain of truth in rumors. Rumors also mean that not everyone has forgotten Maura up there. Thanks for sharing that info.

And, you're right about LE re-impounding Maura's belongings....As I've said for a while now...something must have happened to prompt them to send a person to MA for the day to retrieve these belongings...especially since they don't have much value as evidence since other people handled them...as was seen in a Patriot Ledger article which showed Maura's brother and sister going through the bag a year ago February.

[golden]

For those of us who know Maura well and love her dearly, these recent posts are helpful. Please keep us posted nhjane as to what you learn from that area. Thanks so much!
We want Maura home here safely in Hanson...... 16 long painful months have pasted. It is truly time to have some answers.

[gatetrekker44]

For sharing with us what info you have gleaned-since you live in the area, I agree that "where there is smoke, there's fire"-and that on some level there must be continuing investigation going on. Whether it's because of new info, the letter writing to the Governor, or simply the Murray and Rausch families refusal to take "no" for an answer, I'm glad to hear that something is still going on. For any of you new to the "Maura" thread-there is a web site at
www.mauramurray.com where additional discussion goes on. I urge to to check it out.


Bring Maura home!

[watchingeye]

Thanks, NHJane for the info! It is positive to hear that there is hope with this investigation. Believe me, the FBI and other Federal Agencies don't always "announce" their presence if they believe that it could hurt an investigation. I hope that they are involved with helping NH authorities and we just don't know it!

[CaliKid]

I hope Maura is found safe and sound and returned to her family. I can't even imagine the hell they are living through.

[nhjane]

As we all know, Maura's disappearance has many confusing facts that really don't add up. I can't even imagine the frustration of her loved ones. Obviously, I can't repeat what I have heard here on this site, but I'm very glad that in some small way I might have been able to show that Maura has not been forgotten here in NH. I continue to hope that LE is on the job and that someday soon, her family will be given some answers.

[Peabody]

<snip>
And, you're right about LE re-impounding Maura's belongings....As I've said for a while now...something must have happened to prompt them to send a person to MA for the day to retrieve these belongings...especially since they don't have much value as evidence since other people handled them...as was seen in a Patriot Ledger article which showed Maura's brother and sister going through the bag a year ago February.
Grassyknoll2,

Actually, NH SP, at the request of the NH SP Crime Unit sent 2 of their officers in July 04 to Maura's sister's home near Hanson MA to pick up the belongings that Maura had packed in her car along with Maura's computer tower....driving time to pick up these items would have entailed 7-8 hours.

Also, they had no supeona for these items. They had simply asked Fred Murray if he would release them along with the computer. Fred Murray immediately agreed to their request in hopes that they would use the items to continue the investigation into Maura's missing. Contrary to what some would have you believe, including NH SP, Fred Murray has NEVER failed to cooperate with NH LE.

We really don't know if they are investigating, but we do know they continue to make life difficult for the Murray family.

Also, quite strange is that UMass Police have a signed receipt from NH SP for the copy of Maura's computer hard drive which they had made while investigating the case during the first 2 weeks after her missing.

Sometime late last fall or early winter, Fred Murray asked that NH LE return Maura's computer. They refused. Because he was aware that UMass had copied the hard drive, he went to them for a copy. He then learned that *before* NH SP ever requested the computer tower from him that they had picked up the copy of Maura's hard drive from UMass Police. Fred Murray has seen the signed receipt by the NH SP officer that UMass Police have in their records. However, NH says they never picked this up, nor will they release the computer tower or a copy back to Fred Murray.

While the public has never been told that Maura's case is a criminal case, these are a few facts that indicate to the family that it is.


Bring Maura Home!

www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)

www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[Peabody]

Grassyknoll2,

< smip >


While the public has never been told that Maura's case is a criminal case, these are a few facts that indicate to the family that it is.


Bring Maura Home!

www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)

www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)


Another 'fact' indicating that Maura's case is being considered a criminal case is the link to a Missing Poster for Maura that has Lt. Russ Conte of the NH SP Major Crimes Unit as the "contact person"

Http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/HelenaMurray3/MAURAMURRAYMISSINGPOSTER61405.gif (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/HelenaMurray3/MAURAMURRAYMISSINGPOSTER61405.gif)
(the poster needs to be printed in the 'landscape mode')

[Peabody]

sorry for multiple posts today -


the following news link on 6/12/05 tells about a woman who was forced off the road and raped near Lebanon NH. fortunately, she was able to get away from her attacker.

according to mapquest, this incident took place 38.62 miles south of where Maura's car was located - approx a 45 min drive.



http://www.vnews.com/06122005/2459365.htm

[PrayersForMaura]

It never ceases to amaze me how little has been reported about Maura and her disappearance.

I pray for her everyday and hope she is out there alive somewhere and will eventually find her way back home.

There is some sick pervert in the NE I read about who was hiding women prisoners in his basement and branding them .. literally, like a cow gets branded.

I hope she is alive but not in any situation like this. :(

[Peabody]

It never ceases to amaze me how little has been reported about Maura and her disappearance.

I pray for her everyday and hope she is out there alive somewhere and will eventually find her way back home.

There is some sick pervert in the NE I read about who was hiding women prisoners in his basement and branding them .. literally, like a cow gets branded.

I hope she is alive but not in any situation like this. :(
How absolutely horrible and mind boggling!

Do you have a link or more information to this story...........the shear fear and panic that engulfs me is indescrible when I think of Maura or any person being kept captive and tortured. It is all the more reason that LE should be more interested in confirming if any missing are run aways.........it doesn't mean that their location has to be disclosed; just let the family know they are ok and the public know that there is not a pervert on the loose.

Thank you for your prayers!!

[Grassyknoll2]

I agree with Peabody...sometimes it is mind numbing to read what human beings are capable of...The recent stories about man allegedly molesting 36,000 children is well beyond my abilities to comprehend either the person or the ability to get away with it for so long.

A friend who knows of my interest sent me the following, which appears to be from yahoo group run by Dr. Maurice Godwin..the link to his site and the group are provided, but not the link to the actual post:

This is Bad Folks !

June 5, 2005: [i]Getting away with murder (http://washingtontimes.com/specialreport/20050514-112621-6860r.htm) (Washington Times) ["Police departments in cities as large as the District see about 35 percent of their homicide cases go unsolved, according to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report for 2003, the most recent year for which statistics are available. Police in metropolitan counties have about 40 percent of their homicides go unsolved."]

Dr. G


Thank you for your comments
Moderator Dr. Maurice Godwin
http://www.investigativepsych.com (http://www.investigativepsych.com/)

[Peabody]

If you attempt to login to Maura's website at www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com) , you will receive the following message:



Account for domain mauramurray.com has been suspended


This suspension is only temporary. A hacker attempted to access the site. The site is arranged so that any such attempt shuts down the site. Hopefully, the site will be up and running on Monday, June 20.

[jodierenee]

why would someone do that? What do they have to gain from hacking into a missing person's website? (besides notoriety)

I would see if you could get some computer experts in....trace IP addresses or something...that sounds very strange.

[Peabody]

why would someone do that? What do they have to gain from hacking into a missing person's website? (besides notoriety)

I would see if you could get some computer experts in....trace IP addresses or something...that sounds very strange.
The only reason that I can think of for someone to "hack" into Maura's site is to obtain the private (and I might secure) information of all of the forum members.........all other information is public.

Thankfully, the system precautions prevented the security breach.


.........and for the good news:

Maura's website www.MauraMurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/) is back up and running

[CyberLaw]

If you go to the REAL LE site and look at it, it does not list Major Crimes as a contact person.

I also find it VERY interesting that the site that you refer to is somehow associated with a Helena Murray. No wonder this particular site lists Major Crime as a contact.

So the REAL site administered by NH LE still lists Maura as a missing person and it lists NH State Police and Haverhill Police as contacts. It also list any information to go to the Missing persons at NH State Police.

Oh yeah by the way I find the "rumour" of search warrants very suspect. You have no idea what it takes to get a warrant. For the first thing you need a crime to have been committed. Without that, no supporting affidavit from LE. A judge has to sign off on a search warrant and he will only do so when the information is factual and correct and required.

[Grassyknoll2]

Oh yeah by the way I find the "rumour" of search warrants very suspect. You have no idea what it takes to get a warrant. For the first thing you need a crime to have been committed. Without that, no supporting affidavit from LE. A judge has to sign off on a search warrant and he will only do so when the information is factual and correct and required.

So yet again........please.........this discussion site is on earth is it not........or does it exist in a fantasy world.
Searched three weeks of posts........the word warrant is never mentioned...where did someone say anything about warrants...I'd like to read it.

[Peabody]

If you go to the REAL LE site and look at it, it does not list Major Crimes as a contact person.

I also find it VERY interesting that the site that you refer to is somehow associated with a Helena Murray. No wonder this particular site lists Major Crime as a contact..
Do you really think that anyone, even family would post on the internet a contact name and phone number to a department that would ignore any information they are provided? I had hoped to provide you with the link to the newstory sometime around June/July 04 that mentioned Major Crimes Unit went to Maura's sister and picked up the belongings that were found in her car after she was missing. Unfortunately, I have not been able to locate it..........perhaps you or another reader can locate the LINK - not that you have any confidence in me, but I assure you there is a story that confirms that Helena Murray is correct in listing Russ Conte with Major Crimes as the contact person.





So the REAL site administered by NH LE still lists Maura as a missing person and it lists NH State Police and Haverhill Police as contacts. It also list any information to go to the Missing persons at NH State Police. ..
Maura's family was told within a few months after her missing that NH LE is investigating the case as BOTH a missing person's case and a criminal case. The family's issue has been that NH LE has not provided them with evidence that the case is being investigated in any matter.



Oh yeah by the way I find the "rumour" of search warrants very suspect. You have no idea what it takes to get a warrant. For the first thing you need a crime to have been committed. Without that, no supporting affidavit from LE. A judge has to sign off on a search warrant and he will only do so when the information is factual and correct and required.

No maybes, about it.

Small minds, small towns...........the "status" has not changed of this case as a "voluntarly" missing person.

So yet again........please.........this discussion site is on earth is it not........or does it exist in a fantasy world.
Cyberlaw, I have to say that I almost always understand the opinions of my family and friends EVEN when I do not agree with them. I REALLY do want to understand you. Like grassyknoll2, I have searched this thread and do not find any posts referring to "rumors' of search warrants.

Will you please explain why you incorportated this subject matter into your post? Are you hearing rumors in Canada that we in NH, MA and the Midwest have not been privy to?

As far as small minds, small towns: Maura went missing in a small town - she is not from a small town, nor did she attend school (HS, West Point Or UMASS) at a 'small' town facility......in my opinion, the small minds are those who will not entertain the possibility that someone has harmed Maura. Do I know that someone has harmed her? No, but I do know those who know her very well and they consider her family ties, consideration and love to/for her family as fact that she would not worry them for these many months........on the other hand, everyone that loves Maura hopes for the best.

The mother of Maura's boyfriend was quoted on The Montel Show when asked how her son was doing, "He fears the worst, but will always hope for the best."

If your son were missing for almost 17 months, how could you possibly have different feelings than these people?



I will be anxiously awaiting your explanation re: "rumors" of search warrants.

[Marisa714]

Cyberlaw,
According to this article the Major Crimes Unit IS involved! I found this at Caledonian record. Here is the link:
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/32093cbf2
*
Top News
Maura Murray Case

Major Crimes Unit Involved

BY GARY E. LINDSLEY, Staff Writer

Tuesday June 29, 2004

More Top News:

Westmore Residents Confused By Sounds Of The Landslide

Canoeist Recounts Huge Landslides at Willoughby

B.J. And Peter Murphy Let Projects Do The Talking

24 Turbines Planned Around Hardscrabble Mountain

Lyndonville Clerk Refuses To Work With Her Trustees

Hundreds Gather At Cancer Center

State Leaders Tour Troubled N.H. School

The New Hampshire State Police Major Crimes Unit is now involved in the disappearance of 22-year-old Maura Murray.

Murray, a University of Massachusetts at Amherst nursing student, has been missing since she was involved in a minor one-car accident the night of Feb. 9.

Her father, Fred, said the Major Crimes Unit earlier this month requested that everything present in Maura's black 1996 Saturn at the time of the accident be returned so a forensics investigation may be conducted.

At the time of the accident, Maura had about a week's worth of clothing, books for her college classes and diamond jewelry with her.

Everything in the car was turned over to family members after the accident.

The Major Crimes Unit only now asking for the items in Murray's car be returned is unsettling to her father.

"It's evidence Major Crimes was not involved until now," Murray said. "They sent (state trooper Todd) Landry to my daughter, Kathleen's (house).

"This is pretty sloppy," he continued. "For them to have told me they were treating this as a criminal investigation is a bunch of (expletive)."

Murray said, "So, it shows how amateurish this has been right from the beginning. They can't get away with this. They have to be held accountable."

Earlier this month, Murray requested a copy of the accident report and any other relevant information from the Haverhill Police Department and the state police.

To date, he has not received any response from Troop F, which is based in Twin Mountain.

However, he did receive a letter from Haverhill stating the request is being considered.

While Murray has faced frustration after frustration with New Hampshire State Police and Haverhill police regarding his daughter's disappearance, a northern Vermont family is receiving more communication from Vermont State Police looking into the disappearance of their 17-year-old daughter.

Brianna Maitland clocked out of work at the Black Lantern Inn at about 11:20 p.m. March 19.

Her car was found early the next morning partially ensconced in an abandoned building about a mile from the inn.

Brianna was headed home to her friend's home in Sheldon, where she had been living, when she disappeared.

Since the Maitlands met with Lt. Gov. Brian Dubie and Public Safety Commissioner Kerry Sleeper earlier this month, Bruce Maitland said there has been a big difference.

For one, police have discarded the runaway theory. And two, there is more communication.

"Ever since meeting with Dubie and Sleeper, things have turned around," he said.

However, Maitland also said there are no new leads.

"It's just like she has vanished right off the face of the earth," he said.

A vast network of friends is helping the Maitlands with sending out press releases across the country regarding Brianna's disappearance.

"If she's alive, we need your help," Maitland said, appealing to anyone who may be able to provide some information about Brianna. is IS [B][SIZE=3]

[Marisa714]

Cyberlaw, I wanted to post this one also since it is from the police standpoint, I want to make sure that you know they are REALLY involved, and would rather have 2 incase you didn't like one of them or found a 'problem' with it


The Caledonian-Record Online Edition * · * Thursday July 1, 2004
www.caledonianrecord.com
Web Contact:
Ron Fontaine, Webmaster
190 Federal Street, PO Box 8
St. Johnsbury, Vermont 05819
fontainer@caledonian-record.com
Phone: 802-748-8121

Police Secure Murray Items For Evidence
Lieutenant Says Major Crimes Involved Since Beginning

BY GARY E. LINDSLEY, Staff Writer

- State police say they have secured items from a missing 22-year-old University of Massachusetts at Amherst nursing student as possible evidence.

Lt. John Scarinza, commander of New Hampshire State Police Troop F, says the items are being held, possibly for further investigation.

However, Scarinza also says it's not true the state police Major Crimes Unit is only now getting involved in the Maura Murray case.

Murray has been missing since she was involved in a minor one-car crash on Route 112 in Haverhill, N.H., about a mile east of Swiftwater Feb. 9.

She has not been seen since the night of the accident.

He said the Major Crimes Unit, and specifically, Sgt. Charles West, has been involved in the Murray disappearance since three days after she disappeared.

Scarinza also said detectives from Troop F and the Major Crimes Unit have been used during the missing person's investigation.

He was emphatic that the items from Murray's car are not only now being looked at.

"The items have already been gone through once," Scarinza said.

When asked whether any of the items, including clothing and books, had been analyzed for forensic evidence in the beginning of the investigation, he said, "You don't just send a bag of stuff down there."

However, he did say the items in Murray's black 1996 Saturn were inventoried by Haverhill police officers during the first week of the investigation back in February.

In addition to diamond jewelry, books, clothing and some alcohol found in the vehicle after the accident, some items were missing.

"She had a (black) backpack when she left Massachusetts," Scarinza said. "We have not been able to locate the backpack in the car or her (dorm) room. That was the pack she used at school."

Scarinza also said when Murray left the Amherst campus, she had with her a box of wine, and bottles of vodka, Kahluha and Bailey's Irish Cream.

The box of wine, of which most had been spilled, was found in the car. But some of the other bottles were not found.

Also found in the car, specifically on the back seat, was a book written by Nicholas Howe, titled, "Not Without Peril."

Scarinza said the book is about tragedies regarding search and rescues in the White Mountains.

"Mrs. (Sharon) Rausch tells me that is Maura's favorite book," he said. "What does that mean? I don't know."

Haverhill police, in a press release issued two days after Murray's disappearance, said she possibly was suicidal.

Because it has been nearly five months since the night Murray disappeared, and because state police believe there is not a lot to look for, Scarinza said it's appropriate to have the items in the car at the time of the accident returned to investigators so they can be held as possible evidence.

"I don't know what we will do with them," he said. "We want to have all the items if we need them. At this point, we are holding them for evidence."

That includes Nicholas Howe's book.

"For instance," Scarinza said, "is there something significant about that book? I don't know."

If there is something highlighted in the book which may help with the investigation, they will have the book readily available.

[Peabody]

Dear Marissa,

Thank you so much for taking the time to search and locate the 2 Links that I knew were out there...........don't know how I missed them, but please accept my appreciation for your follow up.

I know for a fact that there has been no deception or spin regarding Maura's missing reported to LE or posted by either myself or those who love Maura.

To place suspicion on their information would be one of the very worst actions they could take in bringing Maura home. All who love her and many who only know of her are working diligently to bring her missing persons case to an end.

Again - Thanks!



Bring Maura Home
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html)

[Marisa714]

Peabody,
You are very welcome! I edited my post, as it made it sound as if I were unsure of LE's role or something along those lines, which isn't what I meant to type up, whoops! I wanted to make sure cyberlaw didn't come after me, it seems that he goes after people for their posts sometimes IMO.

[nhjane]

Thanks so much for taking the time to post those articles which should more than adequetly address the question of the Major Crimes Unit. It would be absurd to think that the Murray family would just select a contact person in the MCU and put it up on flyers and websites. Obviously, they would ask the police who it would be best to have people contact, that is NOT a decision a family would be "free" to make!

BTW CL ... on the NHSP police website, they provide a link to a website providing more information http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html

At the top of this page is a link titled Maura's Official Website. This link is mauramurray.com which does have Russ Conte of the MCU as a contact. Do you think they would provide a link to a site in an active case that had the wrong contact person? Are you implying that LE didn't properly investigate the website and the most prominent link on the page before posting it on their official website?

I would like to address the "rumor" question as I believe it was me who brought it up in the first place. I can tell you that I actually spoke to a person who says they were questioned by police and whose property was searched in connection to the police investigation of Maura's case. However, I can't substantiate the story as there is no press coverage and I did not see it with my own eyes, hence it is a "rumor". I never mentioned anything about a warrant, I was told by this person that they willingly cooperated with the investigating officers. So maybe, just maybe you don't know everything there is to know about this case .....

[Marisa714]

I keep wondering what could be done to progress in this case...there HAS to be something that could help, and really be done! Does ANYBODY have any ideas? My mind takes a little bit to get going, but maybe if somebody posts their idea...my wheels will start turning!

[MSM]

Well, I don't know if I have any good ideas, but there is something I'm wondering about. There has been speculation that Maura could have been the target of a serial rapist and/or killer working in the New Hampshire area, given the possibly connected other cases. However...if a serial killer was abducting young women from their cars in remote locations, he would have to force the women off of the road or find some other means of getting them to stop. BUT, when the truck driver stopped to help Maura, she refused, and he did not report seeing anyone else. This makes me think that Maura was not forced off of the road...otherwise she probably would have taken any help offered.

I haven't seen anything about the truck driver being checked out. He is the last person to have seen her alive which should automatically make him a suspect. I also thought that there were some discrepancies regarding how long it took him to call police, but I don't have the links. Does anyone know more about the truck driver?

[Marisa714]

I'm pretty sure he was a school bus driver....

[Peabody]

It is uncertain who may have been the last reported person to see Maura alive:


1. The schoolbus driver who reports that he offered her help.

2. The construction worker (truck driver?) who reported 6 weeks after her missing that he saw her 4-5 miles east of the accident site.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.com (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.com)

[Peabody]

The following is a clarification by tybee204, one of our moderators, regarding the Holloway and Twitty families.

I certainly agree with the restriction 100%, but believe it must be applied universally to ALL threads.

************************************************** **********************************
Quote:
Originally Posted by tybee204
Let me clarify things for you since it appears everything has to be laid out in black and white for some posters.

Joran is in jail, a suspect in a missing person/ assumed murder case of a 18 year old girl. Suspects in a crime do not have the same status as crime victims and families of victims.

The Halloway/Twitty familes are victims. Their child , sister, friend is missing and presumed murdered. We will not trash them on this forum. Anyone trashing them will be timed out. You do not have to agree with them but we will not call them names etc. They are in no way connected with the actual crime that occurred and do not deserve your public wrath.

We will refer to the suspects by name not derogatory nicknames. When and if they are charged and a trial is set we will re-evaluate in what manner the accused may be addressed.

We are adults and all of you are expected to act like adults.

************************************************** **********************************

Typee,

Is this a *new* rule?

There is a certain poster who has constantly trashed Maura Murray's family. The poster has gone so far to especially attack the father Fred Murray.

I, for one, would like to see this warning applied on the Maura Murray site.

The Murrays are just as much victims as the Holloways/Twittys.


Praying for Natalee and those who love her.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[Peabody]

Peabody

Notify the Moderators in the forum you are having a problem. Ask them to review the posts your are referencing.

tybee
__________________
http://home.earthlink.net/~mytybee/...res/whiskey.jpg (http://home.earthlink.net/~mytybee/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/whiskey.jpg)

This aint Margaritaville!!!


Contact me
mytybee@earthlink.net

[WindChime]

I have been working on editing post where the victim or a family member has been bashed. We will not put up with the victim or a family member being bashed any longer WS is not a playground. The next post I have to edit the poster will be given a 5 day T/O.

[Peabody]

I have been working on editing post where the victim or a family member has been bashed. We will not put up with the victim or a family member being bashed any longer WS is not a playground. The next post I have to edit the poster will be given a 5 day T/O.
Windchime,

THANK YOU :clap:




Bring Maura Home !
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html)

[CaliKid]

I'm glad this action was taken. There have been certain posters who have been virulently attacking the Murray family. It needs to stop.

[WindChime]

Peabody you are very welcome. If you all need me just pm me and I'll get back to you all ASAP

[Peabody]

It is uncertain who may have been the last reported person to see Maura alive:


1. The schoolbus driver who reports that he offered her help.

2. The construction worker (truck driver?) who reported 6 weeks after her missing that he saw her 4-5 miles east of the accident site.



17 Months tonight and still no answers!

Praying for Maura and those who love her.



Bring Maura Home!


www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[Gabby]

Bumping for Maura and those who continue to search for her... Prayers for those who love her and especially for Maura

[Marisa714]

Does anybody have ANY updates or news on Maura?! Let's not forget about her! I wish there was something I could do to help out!

[Peabody]

Marissa,

Sadly, there is nothing new.

However, you can't imagine how encouraging it is to access websleuths and see posts such as yours........

each time that you or another stranger to Maura tells us that you care, all of us that love Maura are encouraged and motivated.......especially when we are feeling particularly exhausted mentally, physically and emotionally (all of our love and energy in looking for her is expended AFTER we put in our work days and take care of other loved ones)

......however, we remain hopeful and for certain:

We Will Never Give Up!

Blessings to you............


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html)

[Marisa714]

Marissa,

Sadly, there is nothing new.

However, you can't imagine how encouraging it is to access websleuths and see posts such as yours........

each time that you or another stranger to Maura tells us that you care, all of us that love Maura are encouraged and motivated.......especially when we are feeling particularly exhausted mentally, physically and emotionally (all of our love and energy in looking for her is expended AFTER we put in our work days and take care of other loved ones)

......however, we remain hopeful and for certain:

We Will Never Give Up!

Blessings to you............


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html)

I can't even imagine how draining it would be on the family, especially b/c you all have to continue on with work, school, and life! If there is ANYTHING I can do to help(while living in WI) please let me know, I really want to help and hope there is a way for me to do so!

[Peabody]

I can't even imagine how draining it would be on the family, especially b/c you all have to continue on with work, school, and life! If there is ANYTHING I can do to help(while living in WI) please let me know, I really want to help and hope there is a way for me to do so!
Marissa,

On the website www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com) there is a printable poster link. You can print posters and hang them in your area. I know it may seen illogical to hang posters so far from where Maura went missing, but you never know who may have a piece to the puzzle.

Also, please continue to post here at websleuths to keep Maura's case in the minds of the public.

Most of all, I ask that you pray as often as your schedule permits that God will give us answers soon.

Blessings to you!


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html)

[Marisa714]

Marissa,

On the website www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com) there is a printable poster link. You can print posters and hang them in your area. I know it may seen illogical to hang posters so far from where Maura went missing, but you never know who may have a piece to the puzzle.

Also, please continue to post here at websleuths to keep Maura's case in the minds of the public.

Most of all, I ask that you pray as often as your schedule permits that God will give us answers soon.

Blessings to you!


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html)

Hey Peabody,
I will definitely print out the posters and hang them up! UW Madison is a pretty big college, I'm hoping that with all the students on campus at least more people will be aware of Maura. I will keep posting, I wish more people would come here and post too! I'm glad you post here a lot though!

[WindChime]

I'm going to close this Maura Murray thread and start a part 2.