An Evening with JonBenet...by Walter A. Davis

[Blazeboy3]

In my dreams:*I have all the money to send this book to all involved...LOL...in my dreams...I would make sure that Steve Thomas/The "FOX"/the Ramseys/LinWood?/all involved in Boulder/ READ THIS BOOK... NON-STOP...and comprehend/learn what is written regardless if you like it or not...!!! ... and not but least PATSY...who knows what she should have learned!!!


An Evening with JonBenet Ramsey by Walter A. Davis
http://goinside.com/02/7/benet.html
July 29, 2002
TIME: 2025

PLACE: A Room

RISE: Voices heard in the dark, continuing as light comes up on the face of a woman seated center stage, facing audience
PATSY’S VOICE

No no no no no no no No. You’re getting it all wrong. Again.. From the top. (Sings following line) “I want to be a Cowboy’s Sweetheart, I—”
VOICE OF NEDRA (Patsy’s Mother)

Sing out, Jolie, Sing Out! You want to be Miss America someday it begins here missy.
JOHN’S VOICE
That’s what you are baby, Daddy’s Girl.
NEDRA’S VOICE
Oh, law, she carries her body like a sack of wood. Keep going, nobody told you to stop.
JOHN’S VOICE

[Blazeboy3]

OK, I'm done here...GOOD NITE IN THIS RAINY STATE OF NE! LOL

[tipper]

"PATSY’S VOICE
Speak up. What have you got to say for yourself. Nothing. Good. Here’s what nothing gets you. (Loud noise of slap.)"

A slap? Where did you get the idea that Patsy slapped her children? If anything, she's been criticized for being too easy going.

[Maxi]

Blazeboy! You can't copy huge portions of a published work without the author's permission! Please pare those posts down to a paragraph or two right away.

[SisterSocks]

Maxi isn't there more you can do with Blaze and the waste of band width? Just asking her nicley doesn't help she like the damn ever ready bunny she goes on and on and on and on and on and on >: (

[Jayelles]

Is this for real? No way.... There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that Patsy slapped JonBenet around. JonBenet was an adored child.

I don't think there is any justification for speculating along these lines about people (who are in effect total strangers) - not even if the proceeds are going to charity.

IMO, people can have their opinions about whether the Ramseys are guilty, innocent or just involved in JonBenet's death. This is a whole different ballgame. This is a wee girl we're talking about here. Little more than a baby and she died a horrible and terrifying death. There is NO justification in writing about her in this disgusting way.

[Show Me]

Wow! Glad I got to read it all before Blazeboy edits it down.

It's very deep....don't care much for all the vulgar language...though I understand the reason for the bad language.

[tipper]

No, it's not "deep." It's simply pornography using a dead child as a hook to get sales. If this man has something to say about child beauty pageants he should say it and spare us this tripe.

[ajt400]

But the fact is he is only specuating what really happened in JonBenet's life and what could have happened had she not died. Since the worst thing in the world has already happened to her, we associate that the worst would have happened regardless of her life or her death. What if this hadn't happened? What if she did not grow up that way. Many parents pressure their kids beyond means and many live vicariously through their children.

I don't think that JonBenet grew up in a physically abused household. I don't thin there was ever any evidence of that.

This is just someone who wrote a book complete with his opinion and his opnion only. (Using a dead child mind you)

Why didn't he get a frew other case studies if this is supposed to be about child beauty pageants and not just JonBenet? Their are plenty of children living in pageants. Did his "research" include girls like JonBenet that are grown up now? That grew up in pageant life and how their lives turned out?

[Maikai]

This is an insult to cigarette smokers everywhere! and probably Catholics, too. So...beauty pageant participants will become sluts by the time they're in eighth grade? Influenced by the catholic religion? and that in turn will drive them to smoke cigarettes and drink bottled water? egads! How did Diane Sawyer escape such a future?

[tipper]

Originally posted by ajt400
...
I don't think that JonBenet grew up in a physically abused household. I don't thin there was ever any evidence of that.
...



That's the point. There has been no evidence that she was physically abused in connection with the pageants (or anything else, for that matter) yet he is using this false premise as a jumping off point for the subsequent opinion.

I don't know whether malice can be proven. But I think there should be some kind of consequence for the willful creation of negative "facts" when presenting a piece using real people's names and situation. I would feel the same way whether we are talking about the Ramseys or the estate of Ted Bundy.

[ajt400]

Was JonBenet even Catholic? For some reason I thought they were Methodists or Southern Baptists? Does anyone know?

[Maikai]

Originally posted by ajt400
Was JonBenet even Catholic? For some reason I thought they were Methodists or Southern Baptists? Does anyone know?

No! They are not catholic---not sure exactly what religion--maybe methodist.

[Afton]

Originally posted by Maikai
This is an insult to cigarette smokers everywhere! and probably Catholics, too. So...beauty pageant participants will become sluts by the time they're in eighth grade? Influenced by the catholic religion? and that in turn will drive them to smoke cigarettes and drink bottled water? egads! How did Diane Sawyer escape such a future?


Hi Maikai--I can't imagine anyone saying that!

[Maikai]

Originally posted by Afton
Hi Maikai--I can't imagine anyone saying that!

Hi Afton....it's been a looonnng time, hasn't it? One of these days I'm going to check out the L&L stuff here in Chicago. Apparently one of the homes and the drugstore are still standing.

[Jayelles]

It's simply wrong to speculate about real, living people in such a horrid way. It's just wrong. It's a terrible insult to JonBenet above all else.

I don't know anything about Walter Davis. I have no idea if he is heterosexual or homosexual or anything else - but I could speculate (i.e. guess). I could write a book in graphic details about my speculations and be totally and utterly wrong. My graphic details might be titillating for some and disgusting to most and be extremely repulsive and hurtful to Mr Davis - but will it be OK for me to do that if I do so and donate the proceeds of my book to charity?

What do others think? (truthfully) Is it OK to go around publishing your wild and imagined dirty thoughts about real people in the name of Freedom of Speech?

[shamu]

Originally posted by ajt400
Was JonBenet even Catholic? For some reason I thought they were Methodists or Southern Baptists? Does anyone know?
John and Patsy were Episcopalians, so I suppose JonBenet wore same label. Though pffft; I think it's silly to call six-year olds that, or anything else. I know everyone does it, but to me a six year old should no more be called "Episcopalian" than be called "Republican" or "Democrat" or "Communist" or "Nazi" or "Socialist" or "Buddhist" or "Baptist" or "gay" or straight" or "bisexual."

Maybe we could wait a few years and they could make their own decisions and THEY could grow up and tell US what they are.

(psst. she was Episcopalian.) ;)

[shamu]

.

[shamu]

double

[shamu]

.

[Jayelles]

I have some vague memory of a previous discussion about this which concluded that John was an Episcopalian but that Patsy wasn't really.

I could be wrong. Religion is not something I have a great interest in (justifiably having grown up in a sectarian environment) so I wouldn't have been paying full attention!

[Show Me]

Wish Blazeboy had posted part of an essay.

Is the rest of the book along the same lines? If it is...I don't know if I can read it all.

[Maxi]

In Atlanta, the Rams were Presbyterian. In Boulder, they were Episcopalian.

If you want to read the play, please go to the url Blazeboy provided in the first post. I deleted the other, longer posts because of copyright violatons.

[Shylock]

Originally posted by tipper
No, it's not "deep." It's simply pornography using a dead child as a hook to get sales. If this man has something to say about child beauty pageants he should say it and spare us this tripe. It's FICTION -- Why people want to discuss it like it has some value is beyond me... I guess you all must be really bored.

[ajt400]

Thank You Shylock for seeing what I guess very few here do. This is simply a wrok of fiction, the author himself said it is loosely based on JonBenet, so why the big deal?

[Misty]

It seems to me that you know who is doing enough to try and discredit this FICTIONAL ACCOUNT by posting only the most graphic portions of this particular section.

Abuse is not nice -- there are no flowers attached to it. Victims spend a life time recovering from its affects.

[why_nutt]

Originally posted by Jayelles
It's simply wrong to speculate about real, living people in such a horrid way. It's just wrong. It's a terrible insult to JonBenet above all else.

I don't know anything about Walter Davis. I have no idea if he is heterosexual or homosexual or anything else - but I could speculate (i.e. guess). I could write a book in graphic details about my speculations and be totally and utterly wrong. My graphic details might be titillating for some and disgusting to most and be extremely repulsive and hurtful to Mr Davis - but will it be OK for me to do that if I do so and donate the proceeds of my book to charity?

What do others think? (truthfully) Is it OK to go around publishing your wild and imagined dirty thoughts about real people in the name of Freedom of Speech?

In America, yes you can, so long as the work is presented as fiction and not biography. Look up "roman a clef." You would not have enough time to read all the examples I could present wherein real people are turned into fictional characters so that the creator of the artwork can make a larger point about Society. I am currently reading a Caleb Carr book, "The Alienist," in which Theodore Roosevelt is a character. Did he do or say any of the things which Carr makes him do and say? No. Recently I attended a showing of the movie "Bubba Ho-Tep," which takes as its entertaining premise the concept that Elvis Presley is still alive but in hiding, broke his hip, became confined to a nursing home, and has needed to fend off a zombie feeding on the residents of the home, all while in the company of his new companion, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, who is also alive and in the nursing home. I assure you, Lisa Marie Presley is not losing sleep at night because a movie was written showing her father is alive and fights a zombie.

Works of art always have and always will incorporate the use of real individuals, especially dead individuals, and there is not a court in the land which will uphold an assault on that process. Such assaults have been tried, such assaults always fail.

[Jayelles]

Abuse is not nice -- there are no flowers attached to it. Victims spend a life time recovering from its affects.

What about men and women wrongly accused of abuse? Only last month a headmaster killed himself after he was maliciously and wrongly accused of abusing a pupil. Even although he was exonerated without question he stated that 'mud sticks' before committing suicide. He couldn't live with that and his family are devastated.

We do not know for an absolute certainty that JonBenet WAS abused before the night of her death. Even if she was, it is not a certainty that her father was the abuser. The Ramseys arrogant butt-covering after her death does not make them murderers or sex abusers and they have the consitituional right to be considered innocenct until proven guilty in a court of law.

I have no criticism of Waleter Davis highlighting the plight of abuse victims in his play - but to use real people who have NOT been convicted of any such crime is appalling - regardless of who they are.

No matter what our personal feelings about the ramseys are, they should not be considered 'fair game' for an exercise such as this.

[tipper]

Originally posted by why_nutt

.. I assure you, Lisa Marie Presley is not losing sleep at night because a movie was written showing her father is alive and fights a zombie.



No, but I am quite confident you would have an army of Presley lawyers descend if you try and produce a movie portraying her father as a child molester.

[Jayelles]

Tipper/WN
No, but I am quite confident you would have an army of Presley lawyers descend if you try and produce a movie portraying her father as a child molester.

You took the words out of my mouth! I think if the fiction is far-fetched then there is a comfort factor, because people aren't going to take it too seriously.

[why_nutt]

Originally posted by Jayelles
Tipper/WN


You took the words out of my mouth! I think if the fiction is far-fetched then there is a comfort factor, because people aren't going to take it too seriously.

Nancy Reagan has not sent a horde of lawyers to descend on the Showtime Network despite her revulsion for the new Reagan biopic which is so controversial at the moment. She is smart enough to know that she has no case in the courts to keep the program from airing. The same things are at issue. Artists have put together an entertainment and since the work uses actors to depict real people, enough distance has been achieved to place the work into the realm of art. Art has protections which non-fiction does not, and it does not matter whether the art is far-fetched or true to life. So long as Davis's play is art, it is immune from anything but theater critics and audience reaction at the box office.

[Jayelles]

Well I think that's just awful.

[ajt400]

Originally posted by why_nutt
Nancy Reagan has not sent a horde of lawyers to descend on the Showtime Network despite her revulsion for the new Reagan biopic which is so controversial at the moment. She is smart enough to know that she has no case in the courts to keep the program from airing. The same things are at issue. Artists have put together an entertainment and since the work uses actors to depict real people, enough distance has been achieved to place the work into the realm of art. Art has protections which non-fiction does not, and it does not matter whether the art is far-fetched or true to life. So long as Davis's play is art, it is immune from anything but theater critics and audience reaction at the box office.

Nancy Reagan also isn't under an "Umbrella of Suspicion" for her child's death, either, is she?

How do you know she hasn't tried to fight it? I am sure these things go on behind closed doors....

[tipper]

She sent a horde of conservatives instead.

Do a Google News search there's all kinds of coverage of CBS "yanking, dropping, axing, pulling the plug" on this show.

Reagan Miniseries to Air on Showtime
By DAVID BAUDER
AP Television Writer
NEW YORK

James Brolin as President Ronald Reagan poses on the set of CBS' "The Reagans." Under pressure from Republicans and conservative groups, CBS may not air its unflattering portrait of the former president and his wife, Nancy, according to published reports. (AP Photo/CBS, Cliff Lipson)
Capping an extraordinary conservative furor over a movie virtually no one has seen, CBS scrapped plans Tuesday to televise "The Reagans" and decided to shunt it off to the Showtime cable network instead.

Based on snippets of the script that had leaked out in recent weeks, conservatives, including the son of the former president, accused CBS of distorting the legacy of Ronald Reagan.

While CBS said it was not bowing to political pressure, critics said that was exactly the case, and worried about the effects of such pre-emptive strikes on future work.

CBS believed it had ordered a love story about Ronald and Nancy Reagan with politics as a backdrop, but instead got a film that crossed the line into advocacy, said a network executive who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
...

[ajt400]

What say you now, Why_Nutt?

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Maxi
Blazeboy! You can't copy huge portions of a published work without the author's permission! Please pare those posts down to a paragraph or two right away. \\\

DONE!!!Maxi...forgive me please...just got here/ SH>T...I didn't know I was in the wrong/not doing what was permitted ... forgive me please! ... I'm so SORRY ... my excuse:I'm brain-farting because OF KIDS(4)? ... but no harm intended!!! Hopefully all is well,,,...!!!???

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by tipper
"PATSY’S VOICE
Speak up. What have you got to say for yourself. Nothing. Good. Here’s what nothing gets you. (Loud noise of slap.)"

A slap? Where did you get the idea that Patsy slapped her children? If anything, she's been criticized for being too easy going.

I asked the same question and the answer came in the latest book by W.A. Davis...it's in the play he wrote FWIW ... read it if you can ...???!!!

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by SisterSocks
Maxi isn't there more you can do with Blaze and the waste of band width? Just asking her nicley doesn't help she like the damn ever ready bunny she goes on and on and on and on and on and on >: (

HELLO...and your point is...You are too ??? "MORE" what's that mean in regards to Band width?

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Show Me
Wow! Glad I got to read it all before Blazeboy edits it down.

It's very deep....don't care much for all the vulgar language...though I understand the reason for the bad language.

HeeHeeLOL...do I laugh or cry (for JonBenet?!) ... hope you all see it for what it is ... in regards to I'm a homemom(retired) raising 4 young kids against ALL ODDS!!!...HELLO?

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by tipper
That's the point. There has been no evidence that she was physically abused in connection with the pageants (or anything else, for that matter) yet he is using this false premise as a jumping off point for the subsequent opinion.

I don't know whether malice can be proven. But I think there should be some kind of consequence for the willful creation of negative "facts" when presenting a piece using real people's names and situation. I would feel the same way whether we are talking about the Ramseys or the estate of Ted Bundy.

... for peace of mind "read the book and especially the last few pages that pertain to legalities...!!!"

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by ajt400
What say you now, Why_Nutt?

SAY WHAT???...
DID WE "LOOSE FOCUS HERE?!?!?"

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Show Me
Wow! Glad I got to read it all before Blazeboy edits it down.

It's very deep....don't care much for all the vulgar language...though I understand the reason for the bad language.

LOL...you're the elite/blessing! THANKS!... same here but do see what their is to see whether I like/accept it or not!!!:bigthumb: :confused: :( :)

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Jayelles
It's simply wrong to speculate about real, living people in such a horrid way. It's just wrong. It's a terrible insult to JonBenet above all else.

I don't know anything about Walter Davis. I have no idea if he is heterosexual or homosexual or anything else - but I could speculate (i.e. guess). I could write a book in graphic details about my speculations and be totally and utterly wrong. My graphic details might be titillating for some and disgusting to most and be extremely repulsive and hurtful to Mr Davis - but will it be OK for me to do that if I do so and donate the proceeds of my book to charity?

What do others think? (truthfully) Is it OK to go around publishing your wild and imagined dirty thoughts about real people in the name of Freedom of Speech?

Hum...I'm a strong believer "EVERYTHING COMES FROM SOMEWHERE"! ... in order to get past life/learn lessons from life ... IMHO that's what it's all about! So... in my BOOK OF LIFE, I ask myself honestly where/why did this come about:The Davis Book? ... and then try(very hard) to move on and find the GOOD thru the BAD!

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by SisterSocks
Maxi isn't there more you can do with Blaze and the waste of band width? Just asking her nicley doesn't help she like the damn ever ready bunny she goes on and on and on and on and on and on >: (

It's an "OMAHA" thing...so sorry to inconvenience you! FEEL FREE TO BYPASS MY POST(S) AT YOUR EARLEST CONVENIENCE!

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by ajt400
Thank You Shylock for seeing what I guess very few here do. This is simply a wrok of fiction, the author himself said it is loosely based on JonBenet, so why the big deal?

Fiction:Ask yourself why...so you will read/learn to not do such... The Big Deal: It's the "Unspeakable Evil" that nobody wants to deal/talk about... it's just to "well you know!"

[ajt400]

Originally posted by Blazeboy3
Fiction:Ask yourself why...so you will read/learn to not do such... The Big Deal: It's the "Unspeakable Evil" that nobody wants to deal/talk about... it's just to "well you know!"

Ok, so what is the unspeakable evil? Necrophilia, child sex-ring, satanic worshipping, sex w/animals? I mean, the US has explored most of these. I don't see what could possibly be so unspeakable that no one wants to believe it. More people believe the R's are guilty, so most do not have a problem wrapping their brains about it.

[Maxi]

Satan worshipping cults sexually abusing children are largely urban myths. The problem with most evil in the world is that it is as mundane as a family that allows a killer to go free while trying to protect their image as the perfect family.

[Jayelles]

The problem with most evil in the world is that it is as mundane as a family that allows a killer to go free while trying to protect their image as the perfect family.


Hear! Hear! Maxi. And therein lies the crux of the whole sheebang.

[Show Me]

I keep thinking of Marilyn VanDuber and her story....the 'perfect' family with the horrible dark secrets.

And her mother denied to the end what her husband had done to their daughters....saving face over the nasty truth.

[ajt400]

Most of the families that this sort of thing happens to say they are the perfect family.

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by ajt400
Ok, so what is the unspeakable evil? Necrophilia, child sex-ring, satanic worshipping, sex w/animals? I mean, the US has explored most of these. I don't see what could possibly be so unspeakable that no one wants to believe it. More people believe the R's are guilty, so most do not have a problem wrapping their brains about it.

In one word: incest! IMHO...not something you want to hash/ talk about at the dinner table everynight...right?

[ajt400]

Okay, but incest is certainly not new. People know it exists and I don't believe that a whole murder inv. could be botched because people just didn't want to see the truth about the incest or sexual abuse.

If anything people would want to know, so they could rip the guilty to shreds in the media....which is basically what has happened so far.

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by ajt400
Okay, but incest is certainly not new. People know it exists and I don't believe that a whole murder inv. could be botched because people just didn't want to see the truth about the incest or sexual abuse.

If anything people would want to know, so they could rip the guilty to shreds in the media....which is basically what has happened so far.

IF OTHERS KNEW ABOUT RAMSEY & INCEST...WHAT WOULD THEY THINK?
Hum...I agree to disagree...think again in the eyes/shoes of "THE RAMSEYS CHARACTER in 1996"...!!!...
John was listed in the news- paper as the CEO that made that company pass the 1 billion mark...
think again (what would others think); IMHO this was what the Ramsey's lived for--what OTHERS THINK--remember CNN--We are a loving family-GODfearing family--we love our children?)!

FYI/URI:
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/extra/ramsey/0817jon1.shtml
But the people who know them say the Ramseys most of the world have criticized and condemned -- the billion-dollar businessman and his beauty queen wife, living in some rarefied stratosphere above the law -- are cartoonish caricatures

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by ajt400
Most of the families that this sort of thing happens to say they are the perfect family.

IMHO, THE RAMSEYS fall into your category of "most families... say they are the perfect family/normal family..." ... FYI the following url

of course you know this address referenced below no longer exists...it's been changed.



http://www.justicejunction.com/innocence_lost_jonbenet_ramsey_perfect_family.htm
JonBenet Ramsey: Our Little Miss America
"The Perfect Family"
John and Patricia Paugh Ramsey were the flashy family on the block, at 755 Fifteenth Street. The home was huge, the décor very opulent. Patsy had done it all herself, the draperies and custom window dressings. She and John had an age difference, and he had an ex wife with whom he had several children. Sadly, one of his daughters had been killed in an automobile accident; he had another daughter, Melinda, and a son, John Andrew. He had a son with Patsy, Burke Hamilton. One often repeated story is that God appeared in a dream and told John that he would have a son and to name him Burke Hamilton Ramsey. John did that and in 1996 he and Patsy had a daughter and she was named Jon Benet. It was a merging of John’s name: John *******. At home she was called Johnni-B. The Ramsey family had lived in Atlanta before moving to Colorado. Atlanta was home to them and in the book Patsy co-wrote, ”The Death Of Innocence”, she admitted that she wasn’t too hot on the idea of way out west. But they did move to Boulder, Colorado. John making quite a success of his company, Access Graphics. In 1996, the same year of JonBenet’s death, his firm hit their 1 billion-dollar mark. There was a huge luncheon for over 300 employees, décor and menu by Patsy Ramsey, and was written up in the Boulder Daily Camera. Patsy decorated their home for the town tour, with lavish theme Christmas trees in the main rooms, all the bedrooms and had supposedly lain her Miss West Virginia ball gown complete with tiara on the Master bedroom suite, which took up the entire top floor of the home. At least 1000 people saw the home on the Christmas tour, and saw the layout of the home. It is a very large house and with all the strangers that paraded in and out there is no way imaginable that all of them could be accounted for all at one time. It was a guided tour, but someone could have easily wandered off, then took a private tour, seeing the basement and the wine cellar room that JonBenet’s body was found in.

...
pull up above URL for further info...
...

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Maxi
Satan worshipping cults sexually abusing children are largely urban myths. The problem with most evil in the world is that it is as mundane as a family that allows a killer to go free while trying to protect their image as the perfect family.

Ok but is it a "LIVING FOR 'OTHERS' THING? Is that the QUESTION?...or better yet, WHY WOULD A FAMILY DO SUCH "UNACCEPTABLE ACTS TO THEIR OWN?"...WHY, OR MAYBE THE FAMILY ISN'T THINKING THAT FAR IN ADVANCE/CONSCIOUS?
Main Entry: self-con·scious
Pronunciation: -'kän(t)-sh&s
Function: adjective
Date: circa 1680
1 a : conscious of one's own acts or states as belonging to or originating in oneself : aware of oneself as an individual b : intensely aware of oneself : CONSCIOUS <a rising and self-conscious social class>; also : produced or done with such awareness <self-conscious art>
2 : uncomfortably conscious of oneself as an object of the observation of others : ILL AT EASE
- self-con·scious·ly adverb
- self-con·scious·ness noun