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wfgodot
07-25-2013, 06:22 PM
Alabama pastor's wife and member of church choir is found brutally murdered on couch in family home (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378131/Karen-Louise-Shahan-murdered-Alabama-pastors-wife-member-church-choir-brutally-murdered-couch-family-home.html). (Daily Mail)

• Karen Louise Shahan, 52, was found dead at 11:15 a.m. on Tuesday after she failed to show up to work
• Victim is married to Reverend Richard Shahan of First Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama
• Shahan's husband was away visiting the couple's son when the grandmother was killed
• Police have not divulged how Shahan died but said it was clear she had been murdered
• No suspects identified; unknown whether the slaying was a 'random burglary gone bad' or something more sinister

The story, with pictures, at the link.

Timeline/Media thread: AL - Pastor, Richard Shahan, ARRESTED for Brutal slaying of wife Karen Shahan - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

fhc
07-25-2013, 07:51 PM
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/07/memorial_service_for_slain_wif.html

Picture of Karen, may she rest in peace and justice be swift.

meanmaryjean
07-25-2013, 08:34 PM
Curious. Found on the couch- so no struggle with an intruder? Any signs of forced entry?

And, as much as I hate to say this, timeline verification? Estimated time of death?

otto
07-25-2013, 08:43 PM
Alabama pastor's wife and member of church choir is found brutally murdered on couch in family home (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378131/Karen-Louise-Shahan-murdered-Alabama-pastors-wife-member-church-choir-brutally-murdered-couch-family-home.html). (Daily Mail)

• Karen Louise Shahan, 52, was found dead at 11:15 a.m. on Tuesday after she failed to show up to work
• Victim is married to Reverend Richard Shahan of First Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama
• Shahan's husband was away visiting the couple's son when the grandmother was killed
• Police have not divulged how Shahan died but said it was clear she had been murdered
• No suspects identified; unknown whether the slaying was a 'random burglary gone bad' or something more sinister

The story, with pictures, at the link.

If it wasn't a "robbery gone bad" and was "something more sinister", <modsnip>

Jan
07-25-2013, 08:52 PM
This is both sad and terrifying. Its bad enough that she was killed, and I hope it wasn't someone close to her that she trusted. It seems like murders are an everyday thing now. Someone has a dispute with someone and they just kill the person. Its a crazy world nowadays!

wfgodot
07-25-2013, 09:15 PM
First Baptist Church Press Release

July 25, 2013

First Baptist Church of Birmingham is saddened to announce that long-time church member Karen Shahan died on July 23, 2013 in Homewood, Alabama. Karen Shahan was a member of the church choir and the wife of First Baptist Church's Children and Families Pastor, Rev. Richard Shahan. Karen Shahan's body was discovered in the couple's Homewood residence on the morning of July 23, 2013.

The cause of Karen Shahan's death is undetermined at this time. The Homewood Police Department is investigating the circumstances of the occurrence. No further information relating to the police investigation has been made available to First Baptist Church of Birmingham.

Karen Shahan is survived by her husband and the couple's two sons, Kyle and Colin (Elizabeth) and two grandchildren.

Funeral arrangements: Visitation will be held at 11:00am on Saturday, July 27, at First Baptist Church of Birmingham. A memorial service will follow at 12:00pm.

In lieu of flowers, the Shahan family requests memorial gifts be made to First Baptist Church of Birmingham's Children's Ministry.
http://www.myfoxal.com/story/22933635/fbc-birmingham-issues-statement-on-pastors-wifes-death

TGIRecovered
07-25-2013, 09:45 PM
Since calling the police was the immediate action of the coworkers, I suspect they had some knowledge of her being in a possibly dangerous situation. Women confide in each other, even if all they say is "call 911 if I don't show up for work".

MOO

Ausgirl
07-25-2013, 09:57 PM
Is this the same church that was bombed in the 60's?

eta - I see it probably isn't the same one now. But I'd be looking into people with grudges against the church, maybe..

The attack seems very personal and angry - but who'd hate a parson's wife -that- much?

Of course, it could be a random thing.. and they tricked their way in.. but worth checking out enemies of this church anyway.

wfgodot
07-25-2013, 10:01 PM
Is this the same church that was bombed in the 60's?

If so, it seems there's been a very long history of trouble with local white supremacists....That was the 16th Street Baptist Church.

First Baptist Church: http://fbcbirmingham.org/

Ausgirl
07-25-2013, 10:04 PM
Yup, wfgodot, just edited my post - not the same one. I saw 'Birmingham' and 'church' and thought it may have been.

kahne9
07-26-2013, 03:03 PM
I know that the detectives always have to question the spouse/family first...but I just wanted to say that I've gone to First Baptist of Birmingham church since it opened in the 1980's. Richard and Karen haven't been there that long but they've been here for years. I've known both of them very well. Richard is a wonderful man who loves God more than any I know. Karen also loved the Lord as much as her husband does. Richard led my son to the Lord when he was 9 years old, he also baptised my son. Our church is hurting so much. So if it's possible...please, please, please keep in mind that there are people who love websleuths and but we also love Richard and Karen. Thank you

Charlie09
07-27-2013, 01:48 AM
I know that the detectives always have to question the spouse/family first...but I just wanted to say that I've gone to First Baptist of Birmingham church since it opened in the 1980's. Richard and Karen haven't been there that long but they've been here for years. I've known both of them very well. Richard is a wonderful man who loves God more than any I know. Karen also loved the Lord as much as her husband does. Richard led my son to the Lord when he was 9 years old, he also baptised my son. Our church is hurting so much. So if it's possible...please, please, please keep in mind that there are people who love websleuths and but we also love Richard and Karen. Thank you

would be devestating...thoughts with you all....

colette
07-27-2013, 02:35 AM
The street where Shahan was killed is quiet but not particularly close-knit because most residents rend rather than own their homes, neighbors said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378131/Karen-Louise-Shahan-murdered-Alabama-pastors-wife-member-church-choir-brutally-murdered-couch-family-home.html#ixzz2aE0gfOeL
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

There was a typo in the article but I believe they wanted to say rent rather than rend. More chance for crime if neighborhood is mostly rentals, people move in and out faster. Neighbors don't know each other and aren't as invested if they are leaving soon.

ClemiFern
07-27-2013, 06:47 AM
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/07/memorial_service_for_slain_wif.html

Quoting the above article below:


The slaying has sparked concern in the community since police have not said whether they believe the killing was random. The street where the Shahans lived is quiet, but not particularly close-knit because most of the residents are renters and change frequently, neighbors said. Several neighbors told AL.com they had never seen the victim. First Baptist owns all of the homes on that circle.

The above article does not say that the entire neighborhood is renters, just that particular street. On the contrary, I would say the majority of the neighborhood is homeowners in that part of town. Many of the homes in that area rent out basement or garage apartments because I've known several people who rented those (in my younger days).

Samford University (a private college) is right up the street from the church as is the large offices of Southern Progress, the company known as Southern Living, Cooking Light, Progressive Farmer as well as others. All these are within under a quarter of a mile from the church.

Mrs. Shahan worked at Hobby Lobby (a very large arts and crafts store...I think might be a national chain) at the location which would have been maybe a mile or two, at most, from her home. Lakeshore Rehab, a large and nationally acclaimed Rehab center, sits across the street from the church and very nearby Brookwood Medical Center, a major hospital is also located, again less than a mile away.

This is not a transient area. I assumed the church owned all the homes on that street so that church staff could rent and live near the church. The street is directly behind the church and the church sits on Lakeshore drive as does all of the businesses I mentioned other than the hospital.

ClemiFern
07-27-2013, 07:19 AM
Since calling the police was the immediate action of the coworkers, I suspect they had some knowledge of her being in a possibly dangerous situation. Women confide in each other, even if all they say is "call 911 if I don't show up for work".

MOO

I thought the same thing when I read all the articles. Her body was found at 11:15 am which is quite early. I don't know what time she was scheduled to be at work but I think Hobby Lobby opens at 10:00 am so I wouldn't think she was scheduled before 9 am. I just don't think I'd be that quick to sound an alarm if a co-worker couldn't be reached within a couple of hours or so. They could have had an emergency and been unable to call into work because of that.

To call the police and ask for a welfare check just seems odd when she had only been late showing up that same day. Usually people only ask for welfare checks on persons who they have been unable to reach for several days for over a week.

killarney rose
07-27-2013, 08:41 AM
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/07/memorial_service_for_slain_wif.html

Quoting the above article below:



The above article does not say that the entire neighborhood is renters, just that particular street. On the contrary, I would say the majority of the neighborhood is homeowners in that part of town. Many of the homes in that area rent out basement or garage apartments because I've known several people who rented those (in my younger days).

Samford University (a private college) is right up the street from the church as is the large offices of Southern Progress, the company known as Southern Living, Cooking Light, Progressive Farmer as well as others. All these are within under a quarter of a mile from the church.

Mrs. Shahan worked at Hobby Lobby (a very large arts and crafts store...I think might be a national chain) at the location which would have been maybe a mile or two, at most, from her home. Lakeshore Rehab, a large and nationally acclaimed Rehab center, sits across the street from the church and very nearby Brookwood Medical Center, a major hospital is also located, again less than a mile away.

This is not a transient area. I assumed the church owned all the homes on that street so that church staff could rent and live near the church. The street is directly behind the church and the church sits on Lakeshore drive as does all of the businesses I mentioned other than the hospital.

Thanks for this info about the area. Helps make things clearer. My son lived and worked in this area when he attended Samford and worked at Valleydale church.i have a question about First Baptist. When I think of a First Baptist in any town, I think of the oldest, largest church in the area. But I read up thread that this church was formed in the 80s? Could you clarify that?

ClemiFern
07-27-2013, 09:50 AM
Thanks for this info about the area. Helps make things clearer. My son lived and worked in this area when he attended Samford and worked at Valleydale church.i have a question about First Baptist. When I think of a First Baptist in any town, I think of the oldest, largest church in the area. But I read up thread that this church was formed in the 80s? Could you clarify that?

You're welcome. Birmingham consists of many suburbs and Homewood is one of them.

The First Baptist Church location on Lakeshore Drive was built in 1986, according to the church website. I believe it was formed much earlier in the actual city of B'ham. It is a very large church but definitely not the largest church in the area. Birmingham and suburbs is home to many very large churches, hence this area being known as " the Bible Belt."

Valleydale Road, which is also located in Homewood, is home to a completely different type of residents. It is mostly apartments and condominiums and is located nearer to a less desirable part of the area. Birmingham is very diverse and this particular location (Lakeshore Drive) is only about a mile from very elaborate homes (some mansions) and it is also only a couple miles away from crime ridden areas. The area itself is simply upper middle class, not wealthy, not poor, an older and more established area.

I don't usually get interested in these stories but this one just made my radar go off. Hoping I'm wrong about my feelings. I probably watch too much true crime on tv...lol.

killarney rose
07-27-2013, 10:08 AM
You're welcome. Birmingham consists of many suburbs and Homewood is one of them.

The First Baptist Church location on Lakeshore Drive was built in 1986, according to the church website. I believe it was formed much earlier in the actual city of B'ham. It is a very large church but definitely not the largest church in the area. Birmingham and suburbs is home to many very large churches, hence this area being known as " the Bible Belt."

Valleydale Road, which is also located in Homewood, is home to a completely different type of residents. It is mostly apartments and condominiums and is located nearer to a less desirable part of the area. Birmingham is very diverse and this particular location (Lakeshore Drive) is only about a mile from very elaborate homes (some mansions) and it is also only a couple miles away from crime ridden areas. The area itself is simply upper middle class, not wealthy, not poor, an older and more established area.

I don't usually get interested in these stories but this one just made my radar go off. Hoping I'm wrong about my feelings. I probably watch too much true crime on tv...lol.
You and me both, but I'm having the same feelings! Yes, lots of very large churches in the area. My son attended Shades Mtn until he got the job at Valleydale.

So this First Baptist relocated to its present location from Birmingham? ( I know its all Birmingham, but these communities are separate, yet together...)

ClemiFern
07-27-2013, 10:17 AM
You and me both, but I'm having the same feelings! Yes, lots of very large churches in the area. My son attended Shades Mtn until he got the job at Valleydale.

So this First Baptist relocated to its present location from Birmingham? ( I know its all Birmingham, but these communities are separate, yet together...)

Yes, that's correct. It was once located in downtown B'ham until the former AmSouth Bank bought that property from the church and built their home office location there. AmSouth is now Regions Bank. Shades Mtn. Baptist is a HUGE church in the suburb known as Vestavia Hills but is only 2-3 miles from Birmingham Baptist on Lakeshore Drive. Shades Mountain probably has one of the largest congregations in the whole city.

All the suburbs (which are each separate cities in themselves) intertwine within the area and all are known as Birmingham. Homewood, Hoover, Vestavia Hills and Mountain Brook area all closely connected. Hope this helps everyone get a feel for the layout of the area where it happened. Very hilly, green and lots of trees, not a typical city type atmosphere. It's very lush, green and a very beautiful area.

killarney rose
07-27-2013, 10:32 AM
Yes, it's very pretty, and a good area. Still have family in the area. It's not the kind of area where you think of things like this happening.


Thanks so much for your description of the area.

BhamAdGal
07-29-2013, 12:35 PM
Not to nit-pick bevause it's not really relvevant to this sad and mysterious story, but Valleydale Road is NOT in Homewood- its much farther South and mostly in Shelby Co. You are referring to Valley Avenue where once somehwat upscale apartments (and lots of students) have given way to a different demographic mix and there is a good bit of crime over there about 2-3 miles away.
The victim's home is one of about 6 on a quiet cul-de-sac, but it backs up to the 1st Bapt. church parking lot. An intruder could have easily come onto the property from the parking lot and not be seen by neighbors. The church is on a busy street- 4 lanes. Lakeshore Dr. as already mentioned. I work practically next door to there.
I am very curious as to time of death- that would explain a lot I think. No indication of cause- which is strange. But, police have not warned residents and nearby students of a killer on the loose so they must think they know who did this and that it is not a random event.


You're welcome. Birmingham consists of many suburbs and Homewood is one of them.

The First Baptist Church location on Lakeshore Drive was built in 1986, according to the church website. I believe it was formed much earlier in the actual city of B'ham. It is a very large church but definitely not the largest church in the area. Birmingham and suburbs is home to many very large churches, hence this area being known as " the Bible Belt."

Valleydale Road, which is also located in Homewood, is home to a completely different type of residents. It is mostly apartments and condominiums and is located nearer to a less desirable part of the area. Birmingham is very diverse and this particular location (Lakeshore Drive) is only about a mile from very elaborate homes (some mansions) and it is also only a couple miles away from crime ridden areas. The area itself is simply upper middle class, not wealthy, not poor, an older and more established area.

I don't usually get interested in these stories but this one just made my radar go off. Hoping I'm wrong about my feelings. I probably watch too much true crime on tv...lol.

ClemiFern
07-29-2013, 06:59 PM
Not to nit-pick bevause it's not really relvevant to this sad and mysterious story, but Valleydale Road is NOT in Homewood- its much farther South and mostly in Shelby Co. You are referring to Valley Avenue where once somehwat upscale apartments (and lots of students) have given way to a different demographic mix and there is a good bit of crime over there about 2-3 miles away.
The victim's home is one of about 6 on a quiet cul-de-sac, but it backs up to the 1st Bapt. church parking lot. An intruder could have easily come onto the property from the parking lot and not be seen by neighbors. The church is on a busy street- 4 lanes. Lakeshore Dr. as already mentioned. I work practically next door to there.
I am very curious as to time of death- that would explain a lot I think. No indication of cause- which is strange. But, police have not warned residents and nearby students of a killer on the loose so they must think they know who did this and that it is not a random event.

I stand corrected and apologize for my mistake. You are 100% correct in that Valleydale Rd is in Shelby Co and yes, I was thinking of Valley Avenue... just got a bit confused.

I have searched and searched for the article I read a few days ago where a neighbor mentioned hearing a loud sound coming from the Shahan house around 10:45 on Monday night. I have not be able to find it again but hopefully somebody else will print it before long. I haven't seen any other news on this other than the interim pastor (Dr. Carter) from the church who said in an article today that one of the policemen said it was one of the most brutal murders he had ever seen. Still haven't seen a time of death reported and yes that would be a good thing to know.

Thanks again for your correction. Have a good evening.

BhamAdGal
07-30-2013, 12:50 PM
Well, the police surely know how long Mrs. Shahan had been dead. If the murder was that brutal and they officially have no suspects, shouldn't the Homewood police have the community on high alert? It is frustrating not to be given any more information about this. Any idea of the manner of death? sounds like a personal situation vs. random stranger.

I stand corrected and apologize for my mistake. You are 100% correct in that Valleydale Rd is in Shelby Co and yes, I was thinking of Valley Avenue... just got a bit confused.

I have searched and searched for the article I read a few days ago where a neighbor mentioned hearing a loud sound coming from the Shahan house around 10:45 on Monday night. I have not be able to find it again but hopefully somebody else will print it before long. I haven't seen any other news on this other than the interim pastor (Dr. Carter) from the church who said in an article today that one of the policemen said it was one of the most brutal murders he had ever seen. Still haven't seen a time of death reported and yes that would be a good thing to know.

Thanks again for your correction. Have a good evening.

ClemiFern
07-30-2013, 01:55 PM
I agree with you. If it were a random "brutal" murder, I would think they would have the whole city, maybe even county on high alert. I think they have a suspicion what might have happened and are just waiting for the right slip up or for a confirmation. I am still feeling "murder for hire" but could be something else. "Brutal" to me says knife wounds/stabbing or worse, but not a simple gunshot or even several gunshots. Typically stabbing or mutilation is personal rather than random unless it's a serial killer and again I think they would have alerted the city if that were the suspicion. That's just my personal opinion on this.

I also think they would have had a press conference to give more information if they really thought this was random. They are most likely trying to trip someone up.



Well, the police surely know how long Mrs. Shahan had been dead. If the murder was that brutal and they officially have no suspects, shouldn't the Homewood police have the community on high alert? It is frustrating not to be given any more information about this. Any idea of the manner of death? sounds like a personal situation vs. random stranger.

colette
07-30-2013, 02:40 PM
Interim pastor consoles congregration. Nice picture of Karen. Says she was found on the couch.

http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2013/07/interim_pastor_consoles_congre.html

SeekingJana
07-30-2013, 02:47 PM
I know that the detectives always have to question the spouse/family first...but I just wanted to say that I've gone to First Baptist of Birmingham church since it opened in the 1980's. Richard and Karen haven't been there that long but they've been here for years. I've known both of them very well. Richard is a wonderful man who loves God more than any I know. Karen also loved the Lord as much as her husband does. Richard led my son to the Lord when he was 9 years old, he also baptised my son. Our church is hurting so much. So if it's possible...please, please, please keep in mind that there are people who love websleuths and but we also love Richard and Karen. Thank you

My mother knows the pastor through mutual friends. Our prayers are with you all. God bless you.

BrianInBirmingham
07-30-2013, 04:15 PM
The "brutal" nature of this murder is all that is being disseminated. It began with a reference by Homewood's Mayor, Scott McBrayer, and was reiterated by FBC interim pastor, Charles Carter, in a sermon this past Sunday where he said he was quoting a Homewood Police Officer. Why inform the public on the "brutal" nature of the murder and nothing else? The "brutality" description is starting to feel more like a "red herring" than a fact.

wfgodot
07-30-2013, 04:23 PM
Hello and welcome to WS, BrianInBirmingham.

BrianInBirmingham
07-30-2013, 04:36 PM
Thank you, wfgodot (Waiting For Godot?). There seems to be one thing that Homewood Police want everyone to know; that it was "brutal" and that the assailant entered the home and left it in disarray. Brutality implies a close, emotionally-driven murder. ...and if you read the Mayor's statement, one is left with the nothing more than a conflicting paradox that it was "brutal" and that "This doesn't happen in Homewood."

AzPistonsGirl
07-30-2013, 04:55 PM
Thank you, wfgodot (Waiting For Godot?). There seems to be one thing that Homewood Police want everyone to know; that it was "brutal" and that the assailant entered the home and left it in disarray. Brutality implies a close, emotionally-driven murder. ...and if you read the Mayor's statement, one is left with the nothing more than a conflicting paradox that it was "brutal" and that "This doesn't happen in Homewood."

Hi Brian and welcome and thank you. Do you have any idea why the "brutality" is being stressed so? Are you saying that might not be the case? I am just trying to understand why. I agree that it seems over the top to keep reiterating that. Think there is a reason for that? Are they trying to provoke someone to defy that?

LambChop
07-30-2013, 05:00 PM
The "brutal" nature of this murder is all that is being disseminated. It began with a reference by Homewood's Mayor, Scott McBrayer, and was reiterated by FBC interim pastor, Charles Carter, in a sermon this past Sunday where he said he was quoting a Homewood Police Officer. Why inform the public on the "brutal" nature of the murder and nothing else? The "brutality" description is starting to feel more like a "red herring" than a fact.

Welcome BrianInBirmingham.

IHAVENOCLUE
07-30-2013, 05:05 PM
I know that the detectives always have to question the spouse/family first...but I just wanted to say that I've gone to First Baptist of Birmingham church since it opened in the 1980's. Richard and Karen haven't been there that long but they've been here for years. I've known both of them very well. Richard is a wonderful man who loves God more than any I know. Karen also loved the Lord as much as her husband does. Richard led my son to the Lord when he was 9 years old, he also baptised my son. Our church is hurting so much. So if it's possible...please, please, please keep in mind that there are people who love websleuths and but we also love Richard and Karen. Thank you

I am sorry for the loss to you and your community...

:grouphug:

IHAVENOCLUE
07-30-2013, 05:06 PM
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/07/memorial_service_for_slain_wif.html

Quoting the above article below:



The above article does not say that the entire neighborhood is renters, just that particular street. On the contrary, I would say the majority of the neighborhood is homeowners in that part of town. Many of the homes in that area rent out basement or garage apartments because I've known several people who rented those (in my younger days).

Samford University (a private college) is right up the street from the church as is the large offices of Southern Progress, the company known as Southern Living, Cooking Light, Progressive Farmer as well as others. All these are within under a quarter of a mile from the church.

Mrs. Shahan worked at Hobby Lobby (a very large arts and crafts store...I think might be a national chain) at the location which would have been maybe a mile or two, at most, from her home. Lakeshore Rehab, a large and nationally acclaimed Rehab center, sits across the street from the church and very nearby Brookwood Medical Center, a major hospital is also located, again less than a mile away.

This is not a transient area. I assumed the church owned all the homes on that street so that church staff could rent and live near the church. The street is directly behind the church and the church sits on Lakeshore drive as does all of the businesses I mentioned other than the hospital.

thank you for your local perspective...

It gives me a better idea of your community...

:seeya:

IHAVENOCLUE
07-30-2013, 05:09 PM
I thought the same thing when I read all the articles. Her body was found at 11:15 am which is quite early. I don't know what time she was scheduled to be at work but I think Hobby Lobby opens at 10:00 am so I wouldn't think she was scheduled before 9 am. I just don't think I'd be that quick to sound an alarm if a co-worker couldn't be reached within a couple of hours or so. They could have had an emergency and been unable to call into work because of that.

To call the police and ask for a welfare check just seems odd when she had only been late showing up that same day. Usually people only ask for welfare checks on persons who they have been unable to reach for several days for over a week.

Good points...

and since it sounds like the store is so close to her house...

it seems someone would physically go check on her before calling 9-1-1 and requesting LE to make a welfare check...

JMO

IHAVENOCLUE
07-30-2013, 05:13 PM
You're welcome. Birmingham consists of many suburbs and Homewood is one of them.

The First Baptist Church location on Lakeshore Drive was built in 1986, according to the church website. I believe it was formed much earlier in the actual city of B'ham. It is a very large church but definitely not the largest church in the area. Birmingham and suburbs is home to many very large churches, hence this area being known as " the Bible Belt."

Valleydale Road, which is also located in Homewood, is home to a completely different type of residents. It is mostly apartments and condominiums and is located nearer to a less desirable part of the area. Birmingham is very diverse and this particular location (Lakeshore Drive) is only about a mile from very elaborate homes (some mansions) and it is also only a couple miles away from crime ridden areas. The area itself is simply upper middle class, not wealthy, not poor, an older and more established area.

I don't usually get interested in these stories but this one just made my radar go off. Hoping I'm wrong about my feelings. I probably watch too much true crime on tv...lol.

:wagon: Clemifern! :welcome:

Thank you for joining us at WS!

:seeya:

LambChop
07-30-2013, 05:16 PM
:wagon: Clemifern! :welcome:

Thank you for joining us at WS!

:seeya:

Let me second that.

IHAVENOCLUE
07-30-2013, 05:17 PM
Not to nit-pick bevause it's not really relvevant to this sad and mysterious story, but Valleydale Road is NOT in Homewood- its much farther South and mostly in Shelby Co. You are referring to Valley Avenue where once somehwat upscale apartments (and lots of students) have given way to a different demographic mix and there is a good bit of crime over there about 2-3 miles away.
The victim's home is one of about 6 on a quiet cul-de-sac, but it backs up to the 1st Bapt. church parking lot. An intruder could have easily come onto the property from the parking lot and not be seen by neighbors. The church is on a busy street- 4 lanes. Lakeshore Dr. as already mentioned. I work practically next door to there.
I am very curious as to time of death- that would explain a lot I think. No indication of cause- which is strange. But, police have not warned residents and nearby students of a killer on the loose so they must think they know who did this and that it is not a random event.

:wagon: BhamAdGal! :welcome:

Glad to see so many locals on this case!

:seeya:

BrianInBirmingham
07-30-2013, 05:36 PM
Hi Brian and welcome and thank you. Do you have any idea why the "brutality" is being stressed so? Are you saying that might not be the case? I am just trying to understand why. I agree that it seems over the top to keep reiterating that. Think there is a reason for that? Are they trying to provoke someone to defy that?

I think It's VERY evident that they want anyone involved to believe it was Brutal. Whether it was or wasn't, I obviously have no idea. Purely as conjecture: If it was a "hit", they certainly want all involved in the agreement to be at odds about the nature of the murder.

AzPistonsGirl
07-30-2013, 05:47 PM
I think It's VERY evident that they want anyone involved to believe it was Brutal. Whether it was or wasn't, I obviously have no idea. Purely as conjecture: If it was a "hit", they certainly want all involved in the agreement to be at odds about the nature of the murder.

yes, thank you. I did not mean to infer that you had any inside knowledge, just fleshing out ideas, trying to figure out what they are not saying maybe. Thanks again for your reply. This is such a sad story for her community - both her faith community and her neighborhood.

BhamAdGal
07-30-2013, 05:48 PM
This article says that church staff found Mrs. Shahan as she missed an appt. What kind of appt. at the church? Counseling? Her husband's out of town and he's on the church staff. Curious.
The News reported that her Hobby Lobby co-workers called the police for a welfare check. An interesting initial reaction initself. Which is it?


http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1

BrianInBirmingham
07-30-2013, 06:00 PM
This article says that church staff found Mrs. Shahan as she missed an appt. What kind of appt. at the church? Counseling? Her husband's out of town and he's on the church staff. Curious.
The News reported that her Hobby Lobby co-workers called the police for a welfare check. An interesting initial reaction initself. Which is it?

The additional appointment is a new, added detail that I have read no where else. Based on a personal conversation and a possible "slip" by a source in-the-know, I have an anecdotal suspicion that a co-worker from Hobby Lobby may have gone to the Shahan home prior to asking for a welfare check and may indeed have seen something.

meanmaryjean
07-30-2013, 06:13 PM
http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1

I'm not sure this can be considered MSM/ reliable info. It appears to be a church newletter type outlet.

So, let's take this info with a grain of salt, shall we???

Is there nothing new in the local media?

ClemiFern
07-30-2013, 06:21 PM
This article says that church staff found Mrs. Shahan as she missed an appt. What kind of appt. at the church? Counseling? Her husband's out of town and he's on the church staff. Curious.
The News reported that her Hobby Lobby co-workers called the police for a welfare check. An interesting initial reaction initself. Which is it?

I missed that article. Thank you for finding it. I guess we'll eventually find out whether someone went there initially and then called for a welfare check but what could be taking so long??? If this was a random act of violence, I'd be afraid to stay at my home if I lived in that neighborhood.

I still can't find the article that quoted the neighbor across the street who said he heard a loud noise from the Shahan home on Monday night. I have searched and searched. I swear I didn't dream it...lol...or did I...lol.

IHAVENOCLUE
07-30-2013, 06:26 PM
http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1

This article reports that Karen was found by church officials...

But earlier reports stated Karen's co-workers called 9-1-1 when she did not arrive to work at Hobby Lobby...

does anyone know the chain of events on that day?

TIA...:seeya:

waitin'4thewrld2chg
07-30-2013, 06:27 PM
The additional appointment is a new, added detail that I have read no where else. Based on a personal conversation and a possible "slip" by a source in-the-know, I have an anecdotal suspicion that a co-worker from Hobby Lobby may have gone to the Shahan home prior to asking for a welfare check and may indeed have seen something.

If somebody did see something prior to calling for the welfare check, that would make more sense to me, because otherwise the call to the police seems as if it was made a little more quickly than one would expect, as others have mentioned here.

BrianInBirmingham
07-30-2013, 06:32 PM
I don't see anywhere in the article that states Shahan was found by "Church Officials". I am attempting to post a video link that is the best news reporting I have found. Please note that the neighbor states, "They [The Police] did lead me to believe I wasn't in any immediate danger."


http://www.abc3340.com/story/22920074/homewood-police-investigating-homicide

IHAVENOCLUE
07-30-2013, 06:34 PM
This article reports that Karen was found by church officials...

But earlier reports stated Karen's co-workers called 9-1-1 when she did not arrive to work at Hobby Lobby...

does anyone know the chain of events on that day?

TIA...:seeya:

Quoting myself...

I see that these questions had been asked before I read the whole thread...

killarney rose
07-30-2013, 07:20 PM
I'm not sure this can be considered MSM/ reliable info. It appears to be a church newletter type outlet.

So, let's take this info with a grain of salt, shall we???

Is there nothing new in the local media?

Per Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Alabama_Baptist


The Alabama Baptist was founded in 1843 in Marion, Alabama by Baptist leaders to publicize the church's work domestically and abroad.[1] One of the co-founders was Julia Tarrant Barron, who also founded Judson College and Howard College, now Samford University.[2] After the American Civil War, J.J.D. Renfroe, a prominent Southern Baptist minister was associate editor and then editor of the newspaper (1873–76 and 1886–87), which he used as a platform to defend southern views, encourage national reconciliation, and promote his idealized view of Old South values.[3] Renfroe was assisted by D. W. Gwin, E. B. Teague, and Edwin T. Winkler during this time.[4] The paper was purchased by the Alabama Baptist State Convention in 1919.[5] In July 2005 the al.com news website announced that it was adding content from The Alabama Baptist.[6]
Today[edit]

As of 2010 the weekly paper was being mailed to more than 100,000 homes.[5] The newspaper attempts to provide concise and balanced reporting of events related to religion, and gives editorial advice on moral and ethical issues from a biblical standpoint.[7]

BrianInBirmingham
07-30-2013, 07:31 PM
<modsnip> The credibility of "The Alabama Baptist" or "Wikipedia" for that matter is not at question here. <modsnip> The only "fact" in the article under scrutiny is what appears to be a possible additional meeting Shahan missed - so noted.

meanmaryjean
07-30-2013, 07:47 PM
I am not questioning the intentions of the Alabama Baptist paper: I'm just saying that it is NOT what WS would consider mainstream media - the ONLY source we are allowed to link to here.

killarney rose
07-30-2013, 07:48 PM
Killarney Rose... The credibility of "The Alabama Baptist" or "Wikipedia" for that matter is not at question here. We are certainly not basing our understanding of the facts of this case based on Proverbs or Psalms... so let's toss that one for good measure. The only "fact" in the article under scrutiny is what appears to be a possible additional meeting Shahan missed - so noted.

I was neither criticizing nor promoting The Alabama Baptist here. Only trying to give readers an idea of what it is and when I googled , the Wikipedia description was the best I could find. <modsnip>.:twocents:

IHAVENOCLUE
07-30-2013, 07:49 PM
I wonder if Karen was active on SM on her computer?

I hope LE is investigating technologies she used... Such as computers, phones, etc...

I imagine LE is...

Just trying to get my thought processes going... Ya know?

JMO

LambChop
07-30-2013, 07:55 PM
According to TOS MSN is acceptable only. The article in The Alabama Baptist did report the type of caring person Karen was so it was informative. Otherwise it could have been deleted.

Ausgirl
07-30-2013, 08:15 PM
So the place was mussed up, like a robbery.

Has there been any report at all as to whether any property or money was actually missing from the home?

Maybe they knew the pastor was out of town...

It's really nice to see local people contributing to a thread. Sad to meet in tragic circumstances, but welcome to WS and thank you for your input!

ClemiFern
07-30-2013, 10:10 PM
So the place was mussed up, like a robbery.

Has there been any report at all as to whether any property or money was actually missing from the home?

Maybe they knew the pastor was out of town...

It's really nice to see local people contributing to a thread. Sad to meet in tragic circumstances, but welcome to WS and thank you for your input!

I just wanted to say thanks for all the warm welcomes. I've been registered here for a couple of years and came here to read occasionally but I've only just begun posting here.

There has not been any reports of property or money stolen...only that the home was in disarray. Basically, the Homewood Police Dept. has not released one single tidbit of information other than what has been reported here already. Nada, nothing, zilch...I really think they have suspicions about who is behind this.

It's just very odd that no one and I mean NO ONE, not the church staff or members, not the victim's co-workers, not the police dept....no one is saying a word. This is the South folks. People can't keep their mouths shut about anything. If you don't want it known, you best not tell it because if you do, you can rest assured it will be repeated. This situation is just strange. SMH

SmoothOperator
07-30-2013, 10:49 PM
I suppose there is quite likely a logical reason why Karen did not or was not able to go on this family trip with her husband to see their adult sons and their 2 grandchildren..but I must say that is what piqued my curiosity in questioning was everything "OK" on the home front, so to speak.. what I mean is I initially had just assumed her husband was away on something like church business..or even his own personal business, but upon learning that the trip was to spend time with their grown sons and 2 grandchildren..well, it just had me question why in the world would Karen not have been along for this family trip?

and to be clear I am in no way wanting to imply anything as I quite obviously have no clue the how/who/why of this wonderful woman's life being taken.. The most questionable issue for me was why would Karen have not been on this trip?.. again there is likely a logical reason for why, but its definitely the issue that struck me the greatest in reading the details known thus far..

Welcome to all you locals, your insights are very much appreciated and my thoughts and prayers are with your community in dealing with such a shocking and tragic loss:hug:

momrids6
07-30-2013, 11:53 PM
I suppose there is quite likely a logical reason why Karen did not or was not able to go on this family trip with her husband to see their adult sons and their 2 grandchildren..but I must say that is what piqued my curiosity in questioning was everything "OK" on the home front, so to speak.. what I mean is I initially had just assumed her husband was away on something like church business..or even his own personal business, but upon learning that the trip was to spend time with their grown sons and 2 grandchildren..well, it just had me question why in the world would Karen not have been along for this family trip?

and to be clear I am in no way wanting to imply anything as I quite obviously have no clue the how/who/why of this wonderful woman's life being taken.. The most questionable issue for me was why would Karen have not been on this trip?.. again there is likely a logical reason for why, but its definitely the issue that struck me the greatest in reading the details known thus far..

Welcome to all you locals, your insights are very much appreciated and my thoughts and prayers are with your community in dealing with such a shocking and tragic loss:hug:

HI SO !!!:seeya:

It could be as simple as she could not get time off from work, a doctor's appt., or her DH went to help with home repairs, etc. She may have had a cold, and didn't want the grandbabies to catch it. I have had my FIL here by himself- to help with our family room renovation; and my in-laws frequently travel separately. They have another home in VT, where he likes to ski and she doesn't, and she flies to her sister's, or here. They have been married for 50 years.

txsvicki
07-31-2013, 12:33 AM
Has the church membership gone down in recent years? I'm in Texas and a Baptist who has never attended a church where the preacher's wife worked outside the home. Times may have changed, but the fact she worked seems odd and the church owning all the homes in the cul de sac also seems odd.

T4Tide
07-31-2013, 03:02 AM
I've been keeping up with this intriguing, yet devastating, story over here in Ttown, too. My condolences to those who knew and loved Karen. :(


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2

BrianInBirmingham
07-31-2013, 03:13 AM
Has the church membership gone down in recent years? I'm in Texas and a Baptist who has never attended a church where the preacher's wife worked outside the home. Times may have changed, but the fact she worked seems odd and the church owning all the homes in the cul de sac also seems odd.

Keep in mind that Richard Shahan is an associate pastor (Children & Families Pastor). I can assure you that it is quite acceptable in Birmingham, AL that Mrs. Shahan work outside the home (To the degree that I could almost say "expected"). The Church bought up all the homes on Hugh Circle because it is contiguous to their property and completes the parcel. It wouldn't take a Harvard graduate Church Treasurer to understand the value of owning the property for future growth and development while in the meantime serving as an investment/endowment. (This Church is composed of a very educated and savvy membership base -- this isn't rural hickville -- I would guess that the average income of members would be six figures) The link below will show you the cul-de-sac. The church is the property and parking lot to the right. The Shahan home is approximately halfway up the road on the right and backs up to the Church parking lot.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.467703,-86.781011&spn=0.002554,0.002411&t=h&z=19

ClemiFern
07-31-2013, 10:04 AM
Checked local news sites this morning and nothing new. Hoping we hear something on this before the week's end. A press conference from the HPD would be nice!

ClemiFern
07-31-2013, 11:35 AM
http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/28/memorial-service-for-slain-wife-of-homewood-pastor/#respond


Quoting the above article:


The tragic crime began to unfold Tuesday morning, when Shahan’s body was found after a co-worker reported she had not come to work. Her husband was out of town.

“They’re saying don’t be afraid, but yet be cautious if you know anything about it, so that to me is unsettling. It’s a mixed message,” said neighbor Marietta Moyer.

Police spent days processing the couple’s home on Hugh Circle for evidence. By Saturday the crime scene tape had come down and the house remained empty.

A neighbor today told us off camera that the church owns and rents the homes on the street. He did not know Mrs. Shahan and reports nothing out of the ordinary the night she was killed.

Adding to the community fears, so little information has come from the police. No news conferences, no word on whether this was some random crime and no arrests.

This is not the article I've been trying to find but this one does quote a neighbor who said there was nothing out of the ordinary the "night" she was killed. So I'm guessing they at least have told some of the neighbors that it happened the previous night.

IHAVENOCLUE
07-31-2013, 12:12 PM
This church seems to be very protective and supportive of its congregation...

I wonder if they like to "take care of their own"... and has a strong wish for privacy...

Thus the minimal reporting of this tragic event?

JMO

BhamAdGal
07-31-2013, 01:03 PM
I also thought the turnout of 200 at Mrs. Shahan's funeral as repoted in the newspaper was quite low. This is a big Baptist church- the husband was on staff and she had sung in the choir. You would think the entire congregation would be there- it was not a football Saturday in Alabama- so no excuses. Not only that, they had been previouly affiliated with another large Bapt. church (Shades Mountain) no more than 3 miles away from their current church. I was expecting reports of standing room only- 200 is a small crowd for people with these kinds of connections.
I noticed all the lights in the back of the house were on this am as I drove past (it's right on my way to work). This had not been the case before- even right after the crime.
So frustrating to hear not ONE bit of news about anything from LE!

ClemiFern
07-31-2013, 03:50 PM
I also thought the turnout of 200 at Mrs. Shahan's funeral as repoted in the newspaper was quite low. This is a big Baptist church- the husband was on staff and she had sung in the choir. You would think the entire congregation would be there- it was not a football Saturday in Alabama- so no excuses. Not only that, they had been previouly affiliated with another large Bapt. church (Shades Mountain) no more than 3 miles away from their current church. I was expecting reports of standing room only- 200 is a small crowd for people with these kinds of connections.
I noticed all the lights in the back of the house were on this am as I drove past (it's right on my way to work). This had not been the case before- even right after the crime.
So frustrating to hear not ONE bit of news about anything from LE!


I thought the turnout was low as well. 200 is an extremely small crowd for such a large congregation and like you said, having been formerly associated with Shades Mtn. Baptist which is huge and has a membership of probably over a thousand at the very least (I'm just guessing). I would have expected SRO too, but then again, it is getting close to back to school and B'ham families do tend to take that last summer vacation late and close to the start of school. Maybe there's just a lot of members on vacation right now, but still...200...not a very large crowd at all.

You see that many or more in a tiny community for a locally known person easily. I've attended many small town funerals where there were easily 400+ people in attendance on a weekday!

I'm just so frustrated that they aren't giving out any more information. Just an update with "nothing new to report" given to a local news affiliate would be better than nothing. I know we're just being impatient and they, most likely, have something in the works but the silence is maddening!!

As far as lights being on in the back part of the home, do you think maybe Mr. Shahan has moved back into the house? The last article I posted did say that last Saturday the crime tape came down and the house was empty so I guess it's been released by the investigating agency. Maybe he was just there early to pick up some personal things or maybe someone was there getting some things for him. I'd find it incredibly hard (maybe impossible) to go back there if it had been a member of my family.

IHAVENOCLUE
07-31-2013, 04:05 PM
It is surprising to me, too, that over a week has gone by since her death... And there has been virtually no information, outside of the death itself and her funeral, being reported...

JMO

IHAVENOCLUE
07-31-2013, 04:08 PM
Additionally... It doesn't sound like LE is asking for assistance from the community...

for instance to come forward with information regarding out of place vehicles/persons/etc....

Unless I have missed it...

JMO

SmoothOperator
07-31-2013, 04:31 PM
Could someone confirm or deny whether this is the Shahan residence circled in red?
Its what I deduced from the link and description posted upthread, but could have misunderstood, thus why I wanted to be sure I've circled the correct home on the Google map screenshot below..TIA:)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MusCxX0P9b0/UflysahJF8I/AAAAAAAADQw/VV7NeCyeXy0/w702-h527-no/PicsArt_1375302211454.jpg

ClemiFern
07-31-2013, 04:33 PM
Additionally... It doesn't sound like LE is asking for assistance from the community...

for instance to come forward with information regarding out of place vehicles/persons/etc....

Unless I have missed it...

JMO

You haven't missed it or at least I haven't heard of them asking the community for help. They have posted a help line phone number on all the news articles but still...

SmoothOperator
07-31-2013, 04:48 PM
The tragic crime began to unfold Tuesday morning, when Shahan’s body was found after a co-worker reported she had not come to work. Her husband was out of town.

“They’re saying don’t be afraid, but yet be cautious if you know anything about it, so that to me is unsettling. It’s a mixed message,” said neighbor Marietta Moyer.
http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/28/memo...astor/#respond

Thanks for posting this snippet and link, Clemifern.. I was quite curious about especially this above snippet quoting a neighbor.. If I am understanding correctly it appears as tho she's indicating that LE have expressed some level of concern in their cautioning of anyone who possibly has any knowledge of the crime and/or its perpetrator(s)..

Or maybe I am misinterpreting the words of this neighbor???.. It seems to me to be saying that while LE is not issuing any type of warnings of concern for the safety of the community as far as relating to being fearful that this perpetrator may possibly strike again..and therefor they need to be cautious for those reasons..yet LE are saying that it is anyone who may have any knowledge about the crime or its perpetrators..it is actually those who are in need of being cautious due to the possible danger that knowledge may pose for them regarding the perpetrator of this crime wanting to ensure that exact type of info does NOT reach authorities..

Thoughts, please??.. As I certainly may be misinterpreting what this neighbor is saying in the above linked article.. TIA for any who can offer their opinion on this matter.

SapphireSteel
07-31-2013, 04:51 PM
Ok I take it that this occurred in a low crime neighbourhood?

It sounds like a "nice" couple with a nice home in a nice area...if I've got the right impression?

Maybe LE aren't asking the congregation for help because they know the perp is in the congregation.

:cow:

ETA: from the above clip -

“They’re saying don’t be afraid, but yet be cautious if you know anything about it, so that to me is unsettling. It’s a mixed message,” said neighbor Marietta Moyer

The above comment tends to be consistent with the theory that this is someone they all know. :moo:

meanmaryjean
07-31-2013, 05:02 PM
^^^ I agree ^^^^^

wfgodot
07-31-2013, 05:25 PM
Tritto here.

BrianInBirmingham
07-31-2013, 05:28 PM
As I re-read this entire thread, all of the facts (and lack thereof) are starting to feel more like an elaborate murder-for-hire sting. I'm not advocating that position -- I realize it's ludicrous on the surface, I'm just saying that's how LE and those close to the situation are behaving.

BhamAdGal
07-31-2013, 06:06 PM
That is it!

Could someone confirm or deny whether this is the Shahan residence circled in red?
Its what I deduced from the link and description posted upthread, but could have misunderstood, thus why I wanted to be sure I've circled the correct home on the Google map screenshot below..TIA:)
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-MusCxX0P9b0/UflysahJF8I/AAAAAAAADQw/VV7NeCyeXy0/w702-h527-no/PicsArt_1375302211454.jpg

IHAVENOCLUE
07-31-2013, 06:11 PM
That is it!

the view from above gives me the impression that the house is surrounded by trees with thick foliage... As they would be right now before fall...

therefore... It seems that an intruder could be hidden while entering the house...

am I correct with this assumption...

Or does the area look different at ground level?

TIA...:seeya:

momrids6
07-31-2013, 06:30 PM
For informational purposes & with mod permission:

Two church staff members immediately drove to Kentucky to pick up Richard and drive him back home when Karen was found, Carter noted. Richard had been in Franklin, Tenn., and Fort Campbell, Ky., visiting his and Karen’s sons, -

See more at: http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1#sthash.hkAc12EH.dpuf

RazTaz
07-31-2013, 07:50 PM
For informational purposes & with mod permission:

Two church staff members immediately drove to Kentucky to pick up Richard and drive him back home when Karen was found, Carter noted. Richard had been in Franklin, Tenn., and Fort Campbell, Ky., visiting his and Karen’s sons, -

See more at: http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1#sthash.hkAc12EH.dpuf

Thanks MOM for checking & MOD for allowing the Alabama Baptist org news to be used on this thread. I get my state's version and also the overall Baptist Press of the SBC and find the news articles in them to be usually more thorough than the MSM. And is actually less slanted IMO than MSM.

Anyway, I just want to say thanks for allowing it in this thread and I believe it will be very insightful to this particular case.

kahne9
07-31-2013, 08:26 PM
Thank you momrids6 for posting this article. I posted it the other day (yesterday) but deleted it because of the replys that were posted. I guess I felt like posting it was doing more harm than good. I'm a member of this church, so I didn't want anyone thinking I posted it just because I'm a member...anyway, just wanted to say thank you...and thank you Mod for allowing it.

txsvicki
07-31-2013, 11:48 PM
Some word choices used in the article are confusing.

SapphireSteel
08-01-2013, 01:51 AM
Thank you momrids6 for posting this article. I posted it the other day (yesterday) but deleted it because of the replys that were posted. I guess I felt like posting it was doing more harm than good. I'm a member of this church, so I didn't want anyone thinking I posted it just because I'm a member...anyway, just wanted to say thank you...and thank you Mod for allowing it.

Hi and thanks for sharing.

It certainly all sounds very strange.

I was wondering if you'd know how long the Pastor Shahan would be gone, and if it was common knowledge his wife was alone?

Also, is theirs the only church housing, or is there more close by?

Thanks in advance.

Also, I had no idea a church had a separate Pastor for children and families...you learn something new every day.

:twocents:

IHAVENOCLUE
08-01-2013, 02:12 AM
Has it been mentioned if there were signs of forced entry?

:waitasec:

ClemiFern
08-01-2013, 04:25 AM
Hi and thanks for sharing.

It certainly all sounds very strange.

I was wondering if you'd know how long the Pastor Shahan would be gone, and if it was common knowledge his wife was alone?

Also, is theirs the only church housing, or is there more close by?

Thanks in advance.

Also, I had no idea a church had a separate Pastor for children and families...you learn something new every day.

:twocents:


They have not released any information whatsoever regarding how long he was gone, whether it was common knowledge that she was alone nor anything else for that matter. LE has not let out a peep about anything at all.

As far as the church having a separate Pastor for children and families, this is a very large church and in the larger churches it's not uncommon to have several different and separate pastors over different areas of the church. Actually, the fact that this church only has 2 pastors, Mr. Shahan and Dr. Carter (interim pastor) is rather unusual. I would have thought it would have had more.

I do not know if theirs was the only church housing but the church does own all of the houses on the Shahan's street. I assume they rent them to church staff if a staff member wants/needs one of them. I do not know that.


Originally posted by IHAVENOCLUE
Has it been mentioned if there were signs of forced entry?

No it hasn't been mentioned whether there were signs of forced entry either. Basically NOTHING has been divulged about the circumstances surrounding this homicide...not a single hint of anything.

always reading
08-01-2013, 09:00 AM
To the person that said they are a member of the church-was it known among the church members that the pastor would be going out of town?

SmoothOperator
08-01-2013, 04:09 PM
IMO I believe this will be resolved rather quickly if it as many believe, not a random murder.. I am also of that same opinion in it not being a random crime, but rather this was perpetrated by someone known to the victim.. IMO that could be anyone from her close, inner circle of family and friends..all the way to someone who is merely a loose acquaintance. I believe LE have a suspect/suspects or even know who it is that is responsible for Karen's murder, yet as we all know too well the difference is great between LE "knowing" who perpetrated the crime..and..the DA having sufficient evidence to PROVE in a court of law who perpetrated the crime..

It is the latter that must be obtained prior to LE being able arrest and charge the perp for the crime.. At which time the clock begins to quickly tick leading to their right to a speedy trial in being prosecuted for the crimes they're charged.. So, IMO its these issues that are at play and are exactly why we see LE taking longer than we'd like for them to in arresting and charging the perps responsible for such heinous crimes like Karen's..jmo.

While I believe the perp is known to the victim that does not at all mean that its her husband. Yes, he is of course going to be first on the list of suspects for LE, as well as a majority of the public(it is only LE that is of importance while the public's opinion is not).. IMO LE already have the key information and knowledge indicating whether the husband is involved or is NOT involved in his wife's murder.. IMO its quite likely that this information was known very early on and the majority of info easily obtained through his adult son's and their wives.. IMO LE know if the times, travel, arrival, etc allow for even the possibility of the husband to have been present in Birmingham at/around the time of Karen's murder.(the whole murder-for-hire type of involvement is a whole other ball of wax and a completely separate issue)

These are all details that will remain unknown to the public and with the so very, very little that is known IMO there is almost every possibility still on the table wrt the who/how/why Karen was murdered..jmo.

kahne9
08-01-2013, 04:39 PM
To be honest, even though I'm a member of this church....I haven't asked any questions because it's still so painful, also I have kids that Richard and Karen worked with every Sunday. He baptised my son. I don't want to have to lie to my children when they ask me what happened. Some of you may understand this, especially if you have kids. Our church is suffering more than you know. I know everyone has their own opinion about what happened to Karen and that some of you think I'm being unreasonable when I say that there is no way Richard hurt his wife. Plus he would never hurt his boys by taking away their mother or hurt their grandchildren. I saw them every Sunday and Wed for 4 years I also taught bible school with them a few weeks ago and talked to her the Fri before she was killed. If I did have any info, I don't think I would post it because without giving you proof...some of you may not believe me. I can understand that also. I can tell you that the church owns 6 ( I think) of the houses. We have them for missionaries, and other people who come to stay a few months.

SmoothOperator
08-01-2013, 05:20 PM
kahne, I do not at all think you are being unreasonable in the very least..not one bit.. I cannot imagine the shock, disbelief, and pain that all of you are going through at this time..combined with the fact of there not yet being an arrest making it all the more chaotic and painful. I appreciate you're sharing with us about Richard and Karen and giving us insight that we would not have. The support you have for Richard is exactly what will help get him through what is likeliest the most difficult time of his and his family's life..

I am hopeful that the resolve for Karen's murder is in the very near future. I believe that crossing that particular hurdle of atleast having made an arrest for those involved will ease some of the pain that the family and community are in at this point..as well as to give answers to some of the difficult questions in everyone's mind and better able to know how to answer the questions that your children may ask at some point.. While I will not even dare say I understand what you're going through, I will say that I have a great deal of sympathy for what you are having to face.. It is proof positive of the fact that a single, horrific act of one human being on another has such a vast, wide reaching, continued rippling effect in negatively impacting the lives of SO VERY, VERY MANY PEOPLE.. One act, by one person on another person can and often does have a truly negative, life changing impact on the lives of many, many people..

My continued thoughts and prayers for you, your family, and your entire community, kahne:hug:

kahne9
08-01-2013, 07:20 PM
THANK YOU SO MUCH Smoothoperator for your post and understanding. It means more than you know! I really do appreciate it. When and if I find out anything out...I will post it, because of people like you, who do not judge others before having all the information.

Tulessa
08-01-2013, 07:25 PM
THANK YOU SO MUCH Smoothoperator for your post and understanding. It means more than you know! I really do appreciate it. When and if I find out anything out...I will post it, because of people like you, who do not judge others before having all the information.

Prayers for healing comfort Kahne9. :)

meanmaryjean
08-01-2013, 07:28 PM
THANK YOU SO MUCH Smoothoperator for your post and understanding. It means more than you know! I really do appreciate it. When and if I find out anything out...I will post it, because of people like you, who do not judge others before having all the information.

Kahne9

We are not 'judging others' - we are taking what little information we HAVE, applying varying points of view based on experience in other, similar cases, and trying to come up with POSSIBLE scenarios to explain the circumstances. Honestly.

Take away the church aspect, and many of us have seen similar cases play out in similar manners. We ALL want justice for Karen, I promise you.


<modsnip>

Praying for comfort for you and all that loved Karen.

SapphireSteel
08-01-2013, 07:59 PM
To be honest, even though I'm a member of this church....I haven't asked any questions because it's still so painful, also I have kids that Richard and Karen worked with every Sunday. He baptised my son. I don't want to have to lie to my children when they ask me what happened. Some of you may understand this, especially if you have kids. Our church is suffering more than you know. I know everyone has their own opinion about what happened to Karen and that some of you think I'm being unreasonable when I say that there is no way Richard hurt his wife. Plus he would never hurt his boys by taking away their mother or hurt their grandchildren. I saw them every Sunday and Wed for 4 years I also taught bible school with them a few weeks ago and talked to her the Fri before she was killed. If I did have any info, I don't think I would post it because without giving you proof...some of you may not believe me. I can understand that also. I can tell you that the church owns 6 ( I think) of the houses. We have them for missionaries, and other people who come to stay a few months.

Thank you for sharing with us at this horrible time. I hope that the perp is located and arrested quickly.

It must be very very difficult especially if you think the person may be known to your congregation somehow...maybe even someone the Pastor had reached out to.

On the surface she seems a very unlikely victim. I'm assuming pastors are not usually living extravagant type lifestyles which would easily tempt a thief so it is quite motiveless apparently.

I wish we had more details, from an official source. :(

I pray that you all get answers soon.

I'm reminded of the female pastor in Oklahoma who was horribly murdered in her own church....:( Still not solved.

ETA Link http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88118&page=7&highlight=anadarko

LambChop
08-01-2013, 08:00 PM
Sleuthing family members that are not suspects is against TOS. There are no known suspects that we know of presently. Discuss the case but be respectful of the family during the time of their loss.

LambChop
08-01-2013, 08:05 PM
Thank you for sharing with us at this horrible time. I hope that the perp is located and arrested quickly.

It must be very very difficult especially if you think the person may be known to your congregation somehow...maybe even someone the Pastor had reached out to.

On the surface she seems a very unlikely victim. I'm assuming pastors are not usually living extravagant type lifestyles which would easily tempt a thief so it is quite motiveless apparently.

I wish we had more details, from an official source. :(

I pray that you all get answers soon.

I'm reminded of the female pastor in Oklahoma who was horribly murdered in her own church....:( Still not solved.

It is very possible that whoever did this expected both the Pastor and his wife to be gone from the home and was surprised to find Karen asleep on the couch. Can't tell you how many times I have fallen asleep on the couch myself never making it to the bedroom. jmo

meanmaryjean
08-01-2013, 08:07 PM
My apologies- I did not intend to do so. I was simply trying to explain WHY we sometimes go 'down the paths' we do. Mea culpa.

MissJ
08-01-2013, 08:15 PM
While I do think that it is likely the perp knew the victim in some way, that covers a slew of people that could be responsible. I would not presume to know who might be responsible. I do think it was someone who knew her husband was out of town and took advantage of that fact. What a horrendous crime for her family, congregation and friends to have to deal with at this time. My sympathies to them all. JMO

LambChop
08-01-2013, 08:26 PM
My apologies- I did not intend to do so. I was simply trying to explain WHY we sometimes go 'down the paths' we do. Mea culpa.

It is okay as long as someone is named a suspect otherwise it is and always has been against TOS.

She could have been killed brutally because she recognized the person and confronted them. It does sound as if whoever did this was beyond angry. I do think the fact that LE is not disclosing information is that they have an idea who did this and are actively working the case. Otherwise isn't it usual for LE to ask the public for help, such as did anyone see anything that night, etc. They often ask for the public's help. Have they done that in this case?

MissJ
08-01-2013, 09:14 PM
I do think LE must have some clue who might be responsible or else I hope they would warn the community. We never really know what someone/anyone is capable of; someone I dearly loved and who had not ever been violent toward me became suddenly violent a few months ago. I'm sure in her job she came into contact with lots of people.

TGIRecovered
08-01-2013, 09:32 PM
So am I understanding correctly that we can't even reference other cases or our own experiences? I don't see how that could be misconstrued as accusing anyone.

LambChop
08-01-2013, 09:49 PM
So am I understanding correctly that we can't even reference other cases or our own experiences? I don't see how that could be misconstrued as accusing anyone.

Not in the context of which it was written. It is against TOS so we do not speculate and we do not make comparison's so there is no mistake. Talk about anything else involving this case but not that.

txsvicki
08-02-2013, 12:37 AM
An older church couple probably wouldn't have a lot of money lying around or many things to steal. I wonder what the motive would be. Hope they get it solved soon. Just because they were involved in church doesn't mean it's in any way to any church acquaintances or people even if cops are keeping quiet.

kahne9
08-02-2013, 01:11 AM
Thank you for your post MEANMARYJEAN....I completely agree with your post. I've been a member of Websleuths since the Caylee Anthony case. I have seen all of the awesome information that websleuths members have found. So thank all of you for that. I also have no dout that someone on here will find some very good info to help this case. I'm thankful for that. I'm still trying to process all of this mess myself. So I'm sorry if it seemed like I was meing mean...I wasn't

momrids6
08-02-2013, 01:55 AM
Campbell said Karen Shahan “worked a lot behind the scenes. … She was always so positive and so gracious in opening her home to staff and others.” -

This ^^^ (BBM) worries me....

See more at: http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1#sthash.hkAc12EH.9OJ189BE.dpuf

txsvicki
08-02-2013, 02:21 AM
If I was just trying to come up with a theory based on practically no information, I'd say the area was cased by a burglar or worse. A neighbor said her husband was also gone at that time so maybe more cars were gone. The pic of the house next to a parking lot, the church not open for meeting, all those trees, and beside a highway. It's looks like a vulnerable area for such a thing. For a cop to say it was the most brutal murder he'd ever examined it must have been pretty bad. Since detectives aren't saying if there was a struggle, then maybe it was some lunatic. It sounds ridiculous, but they also never caught ear/ons, and he attacked cul de sacs after stalking the area well. Are there any other similar crimes in other nearby towns?

killarney rose
08-02-2013, 08:33 AM
If I was just trying to come up with a theory based on practically no information, I'd say the area was cased by a burglar or worse. A neighbor said her husband was also gone at that time so maybe more cars were gone. The pic of the house next to a parking lot, the church not open for meeting, all those trees, and beside a highway. It's looks like a vulnerable area for such a thing. For a cop to say it was the most brutal murder he'd ever examined it must have been pretty bad. Since detectives aren't saying if there was a struggle, then maybe it was some lunatic. It sounds ridiculous, but they also never caught ear/ons, and he attacked cul de sacs after stalking the area well. Are there any other similar crimes in other nearby towns?

The area is right off I-65. It could even be a random killing. It would be easy off the interstate onto Lakeshore and back on again and gone. This is an upper (to me) middle class area.

SCHMAE
08-02-2013, 11:53 AM
If you watch enough ID then you know darn well brutality in a killing is a red flag to LE that the victim and the perp likely know each other. Were the 2 sons out of town the only children of this couple?
Some times preachers and their families are especially helpful to the down trodden trying to witness to and help various types of ne'er do wells. Do any of the locals or members of this church know if they were into that type of work? What I mean is possibly mentoring to homeless, drug addicted or problem teens or persons? Sometimes churches have programs where they help and really get very close to these kind of people and not all of these kind of people want help and some may be looking for an opportunity to victimize and take advantage of the kind hearted. That is my thought after just skimming through this case.
That would be sooooooo tragic but I think it happens a lot ! Vultures looking for easy prey at the same time a good person is trying to be helpful and kind to someone down on their luck.

IHAVENOCLUE
08-02-2013, 11:58 AM
If you watch enough ID then you know darn well brutality in a killing is a red flag to LE that the victim and the perp likely know each other. Were the 2 sons out of town the only children of this couple?
Some times preachers and their families are especially helpful to the down trodden trying to witness to and help various types of ne'er do wells. Do any of the locals or members of this church know if they were into that type of work? What I mean is possibly mentoring to homeless, drug addicted or problem teens or persons? Sometimes churches have programs where they help and really get very close to these kind of people and not all of these kind of people want help and some may be looking for an opportunity to victimize and take advantage of the kind hearted. That is my thought after just skimming through this case.
That would be sooooooo tragic but I think it happens a lot ! Vultures looking for easy prey at the same time a good person is trying to be helpful and kind to someone down on their luck.

:welcome: to the thread, SCHMAE!

good ideas about how some people the kind-hearted try to help...

actually take advantage of those kind souls...

:(

SCHMAE
08-02-2013, 12:06 PM
A little personal story for anyone who cares. :)
My grandfather was a preacher, well loved by his parishioners. They trusted him
with their lives, their homes and their souls every day of his life. I have cousins
and uncles and old family friends who still today say things on fb like ' what a Godly
man Rev. ******* was '' . I have to roll my eyes, bite my tongue and squeeze my toes
together to not comment . Scroll and roll, right? He was actually a vicious, sick man who
physically beat at least one of his children into the hospital and sexually abused his
only female child. He was mean and hateful and dirty . But on Sunday mornings from
the pulpit he was filled with the holy spirit and spoke right to everyone's hearts.
Those people, when confronted with the truth, deny it is true. They call his children LIARS and blasphemers for saying such horrible things about a dead man of GOD.
He would put his best face forward on Sunday morning because that is what paid his bills, but it is not who he was . FWIW :)

BrianInBirmingham
08-02-2013, 12:56 PM
The area is right off I-65. It could even be a random killing. It would be easy off the interstate onto Lakeshore and back on again and gone. This is an upper (to me) middle class area.

By Birmingham standards, the Shahan home was not “right off” I-65. I understand that by the map it appears “close” but it’s not when you actually get out and drive this. I am a lifetime resident living within 3 miles of their home and it’s hard to find – so is the Church for that matter. It’s all hidden away behind buffer areas of trees. The parking lot that seems so prevalent on the landscape by Satellite image is actually nestled away and almost invisible from Lakeshore Drive at ground level. Additionally, this is an upper middle class area by all standards – not the McMansion crowd, but for those with an interest in an established, historical neighborhood that is close to downtown while still maintaining the “white flight” suburban lifestyle.

This Google Maps link will show you the entrance to Hugh Drive and the contiguous parking lot entrance at street level. I contend it is now more grown up and buffered than when this picture was taken:

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Hugh+Circle,+Birmingham,+AL&hl=en&ll=33.466852,-86.78139&spn=0.007223,0.009645&sll=32.576226,-86.680736&sspn=7.467753,9.876709&oq=hugh+cir&t=h&hnear=Hugh+Cir,+Birmingham,+Jefferson,+Alabama+352 09&z=17&layer=c&cbll=33.466852,-86.78139&panoid=XiyHc8RXuMgHcukFdAg51Q&cbp=12,17.31,,0,12.81

Kimster
08-02-2013, 03:33 PM
A little personal story for anyone who cares. :)
My grandfather was a preacher, well loved by his parishioners. They trusted him
with their lives, their homes and their souls every day of his life. I have cousins
and uncles and old family friends who still today say things on fb like ' what a Godly
man Rev. ******* was '' . I have to roll my eyes, bite my tongue and squeeze my toes
together to not comment . Scroll and roll, right? He was actually a vicious, sick man who
physically beat at least one of his children into the hospital and sexually abused his
only female child. He was mean and hateful and dirty . But on Sunday mornings from
the pulpit he was filled with the holy spirit and spoke right to everyone's hearts.
Those people, when confronted with the truth, deny it is true. They call his children LIARS and blasphemers for saying such horrible things about a dead man of GOD.
He would put his best face forward on Sunday morning because that is what paid his bills, but it is not who he was . FWIW :)

What a horrible experience! There are people who are fakes and phonies out there everywhere. I'm so sorry your family had to endure it. :(

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that in this case the husband had a seedy past. If that changes please let the mods know.


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Cherry
08-02-2013, 04:22 PM
I think this murder seems very well planned.

SCHMAE
08-02-2013, 04:36 PM
What a horrible experience! There are people who are fakes and phonies out there everywhere. I'm so sorry your family had to endure it. :(

I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that in this case the husband had a seedy past. If that changes please let the mods know.


Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

I'm not even remotely suggesting he has a seedy past Boss. I just want the perception that a preacher is a good guy by definition to be cleared up . Anyone, even a preacher, can be a POS ! That's all. But there's nothing to suggest this guy is, that's true . TY !

21merc7
08-02-2013, 04:37 PM
I have no idea what happened here and I am very sad this woman was murdered.

I will agree that this was planned, also known as, coordinated. From an outsider's view, too many knew when she would be home alone and no robbery, or even faking it.

Where that leads, I cannot say. Don't know if the Church can keep LE or media there quiet, but it was something brewing.

(Thank you SCMAE, it is happening everyday now, or being noticed everyday finally not just U.S. but Worldwide. *Not an opinion on this case, just saying thank you for SCHMAE to be able to say it from experience.***)

SapphireSteel
08-02-2013, 04:49 PM
A little personal story for anyone who cares. :)
My grandfather was a preacher, well loved by his parishioners. They trusted him
with their lives, their homes and their souls every day of his life. I have cousins
and uncles and old family friends who still today say things on fb like ' what a Godly
man Rev. ******* was '' . I have to roll my eyes, bite my tongue and squeeze my toes
together to not comment . Scroll and roll, right? He was actually a vicious, sick man who
physically beat at least one of his children into the hospital and sexually abused his
only female child. He was mean and hateful and dirty . But on Sunday mornings from
the pulpit he was filled with the holy spirit and spoke right to everyone's hearts.
Those people, when confronted with the truth, deny it is true. They call his children LIARS and blasphemers for saying such horrible things about a dead man of GOD.
He would put his best face forward on Sunday morning because that is what paid his bills, but it is not who he was . FWIW :)

Standing in a church pulpit doesn't make you a Christian, any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

I was brought up with a deep distrust of religion and religious men, I think I had a greatgrandfather like this and he's to blame.

I know he cut my father's toe off when he was only 5 - no word on whether it was intentional or not.

:(

LambChop
08-02-2013, 05:00 PM
I have no idea what happened here and I am very sad this woman was murdered.

I will agree that this was planned, also known as, coordinated. From an outsider's view, too many knew when she would be home alone and no robbery, or even faking it.

Where that leads, I cannot say. Don't know if the Church can keep LE or media there quiet, but it was something brewing.

(Thank you SCMAE, it is happening everyday now, or being noticed everyday finally not just U.S. but Worldwide. *Not an opinion on this case, just saying thank you for SCHMAE to be able to say it from experience.***)

If someone broke into the home with the expectation of there being money from the church collections and there was no money then nothing would have been taken. It's just very possible someone surprised Karen while she slept and she tried to fight back. jmo

SapphireSteel
08-02-2013, 05:05 PM
I don't see robbery as a motive.

Why would anyone think the church collection funds would be in that pastor's home, as opposed to any of the others working for the church, or even in a safe somewhere?

Nope. Not robbery.

:cow:

killarney rose
08-02-2013, 05:14 PM
There is an exit ramp from I-65 directly off the interstate onto Lakeshore. It would be quite easy for someone looking for a house to rob to get off and ride around looking for one. I am familiar with this area. My son lived on
Lakeshore while attending Samford. MOO is that this is not what happened. I've got a theory that I'm keeping to myself, others have hinted at it.

I have read too many true crime books, watched too much ID ,read too many cases here on Web Sleuths to know that this does happen and could be a possibility here too. The interstate DOES provide easy access for this neighborhood.

ClemiFern
08-02-2013, 06:58 PM
There is an exit ramp from I-65 directly off the interstate onto Lakeshore. It would be quite easy for someone looking for a house to rob to get off and ride around looking for one. I am familiar with this area. My son lived on
Lakeshore while attending Samford. MOO is that this is not what happened. I've got a theory that I'm keeping to myself, others have hinted at it.

I have read too many true crime books, watched too much ID ,read too many cases here on Web Sleuths to know that this does happen and could be a possibility here too. The interstate DOES provide easy access for this neighborhood.

You are correct...it would be very easy to find a random house by popping off I-65 but I am with you in that I don't think that's what happened here. I also don't think LE thinks that's what happened here either. Hence, the total silence on this case.

I think you and I have a similar theory and I, too, have probably read too many crime books, watched too much ID and followed too many cases so I'm a skeptic about the "random victim" theory. That being said, we'll just have to wait, apparently, for something/someone to break in this case but I'll close by saying this: When it does break, I feel like it's gonna be a doozy!

BrianInBirmingham
08-02-2013, 07:01 PM
There is an exit ramp from I-65 directly off the interstate onto Lakeshore. It would be quite easy for someone looking for a house to rob to get off and ride around looking for one. I am familiar with this area. My son lived on
Lakeshore while attending Samford. MOO is that this is not what happened. I've got a theory that I'm keeping to myself, others have hinted at it.

I have read too many true crime books, watched too much ID ,read too many cases here on Web Sleuths to know that this does happen and could be a possibility here too. The interstate DOES provide easy access for this neighborhood.

You may be right. I don't consider myself "close", and I live closer to said exit than the Shahans. It's just a matter of opinion. Certainly someone could have come off the interstate. I-65 or equally (by distance) 20/59 and Red Mountain Expressway. I agree that the probability of that is low and have my opinions about what happened too. I get the idea that we aren't allowed to express our theories <modsnip> so I've kept my mouth shut. :-)

kahne9
08-02-2013, 07:25 PM
SCHMAE... Yes...There are MANY people who go around to the neighborhoods by our church to witness to others, our whole church passed out Bible school flyers to many neighborhoods around the church. There were many children because of the flyers. The paren't drop their children off at 9 and pick them up at 12. Lakeshore runs into Greensprings hwy, if you continue to drive down greensprings hwy, it leads to downtown Birmingham. There is ALOT of crime down that way. If any of you watch "The First 48" on A&E, I'm sure you've seen episodes that are filmed here. It's very scary to see some of the things that happen 10 minutes away from our church. If you haven't seen " The First 48" Google it for Birmingham.

SapphireSteel
08-02-2013, 08:01 PM
Here's an article with a photo of Mrs Shahan. :(

This part disturbs me -

Carter quoted one of the investigating detectives as saying it was “the most brutal murder that he had ever examined.”

I'm guessing that a detective in Birmingham Alabama has seen quite a few brutal murders, so what on earth was done to Mrs Shahan?

That statement, if accurate, implies overkill, which often means a personal relationship with the victim...or at least, extreme anger with the victim or what the victim represents.

In this case, all that's good and honest and caring, maybe?

:sick:

http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2013/07/interim_pastor_consoles_congre.html

For those who are sharing with us - the article says there is an "interim Pastor" at that church.

Who is he filling in for? Is it Mr Shahan or another Pastor? How long has this arrangement been in place?

I don't think for a second any of the Pastors are involved, it just seems like a good idea to sleuth it when something has changed recently within the leadership of the community.

Thanks in advance.

:cow:

SapphireSteel
08-02-2013, 08:14 PM
Ugh...


Sgt. Didcoct says it appears that this particular house was targeted.


http://www.myfoxal.com/story/22912350/police-investigating-homewood-homicide

Targeted - I'm assuming they mean that there was no disruption at any other house nearby, no suspicious noises or strangers knocking on doors, nothing heard, seen, missing or out of place anywhere else except Mrs Shahan's house.

kahne9
08-02-2013, 09:13 PM
SAPPHIRESTEEL- Dr. Carter (interim pastor) is filling in until we find a new pastor, our last pastor and his family decided to move back to their home state to be closer to family. Richard (Shahan) is the children/families pastor, he's been at our church for 4 years. I'm out of town right now so I can't give you a definite answer on how long Dr. Carter has been filling in. When I find out I will let you know.

BrianInBirmingham
08-02-2013, 10:33 PM
I want to add, not that this makes some larger point, that based on many accounts, Dr. Carter's (head Pastor) tenure, and Richard Shahan's LinkedIn profile -- Dr. Carter seems to hire Richard Shahan and bring him wherever he goes. When Carter left Shades Mountain Church, so did Mr. Shahan. When Carter took on the interim pastor position at FBC, so followed the hiring of Richard Shahan. In the interim -- Richard Shahan was at Hickory Grove Baptist outside of Charlotte, NC. Carter describes Mr. Shahan as "Masterful" at Children's ministries.

That is NOT entirely true... Sorry... further research puts Dr. Carter's interim pastor position as beginning in 2012. Shahan was there before Carter... Sorry. :-) But they were together at Shades Mountain and Shahan did leave shortly after Carter's retirement.

http://fbcbirmingham.org/about/history/


THIS IS RICHARD SHAHAN'S LINKEDIN PROFILE:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/richard-shahan/30/39/1a4

http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1

txsvicki
08-02-2013, 10:51 PM
Does Birmingham seem to solve most crime? I looked up the crime rate yesterday and it listed many shootings. It looked like most were solved and quite a few confessions. From the pics, it looks like a beautiful place to live but so sad about what happened to such a nice Christian woman.

BrianInBirmingham
08-02-2013, 11:01 PM
Does Birmingham seem to solve most crime? I looked up the crime rate yesterday and it listed many shootings. It looked like most were solved and quite a few confessions. From the pics, it looks like a beautiful place to live but so sad about what happened to such a nice Christian woman.

It's actually Homewood, AL. It's the first suburb (fully incorporated) south of Birmingham and is rich in history. I'm sure that Homewood Police are utilizing the support of The Jefferson County Sheriffs Office. This would be prosecuted at the County level. The following link gives you a crime breakdown. You will notice that the Lakeshore Estates corridor does show a slightly larger rate than others. I didn't see that coming. But keep in mind, Homewood's Mayor told us that this crime is an exception not the rule. This sort of thing doesn't happen in Homewood. ;-)

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/al/homewood/

SapphireSteel
08-02-2013, 11:05 PM
It's actually Homewood, AL. It's the first "white flight" suburb (fully incorporated) south of Birmingham and is rich in history. The following link gives you a crime breakdown. You will notice that the Lakeshore Estates corridor does show a slightly larger rate than others. I didn't see that coming. But keep in mind, Homewood's Mayor told us that this crime is an exception not the rule. This sort of thing doesn't happen in Homewood. ;-)

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/al/homewood/

Erm...not quite certain what this means?

Do you mean Homewood was set up to be a Caucasian enclave? :waitasec:

BrianInBirmingham
08-02-2013, 11:42 PM
Erm...not quite certain what this means?

Do you mean Homewood was set up to be a Caucasian enclave? :waitasec:

I edited that before I saw your reply basically because I didn't want to get that debate started. "White flight" is an actual term coined in the middle of the 20th century before I was born, but is the essence of why Birmingham is so tangled with sprawl of incorporated municipalities. It's not my term, but consider it redacted for our purposes. I personally believe Birmingham would thrive under a County government much like Chattanooga's model, but because of our history and misconceptions -- from both sides of the spectrum -- I believe we are another 50 years from that. So... REDACTED. Thanks. :-)

White flight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SapphireSteel
08-02-2013, 11:58 PM
I edited that before I saw your reply basically because I didn't want to get that debate started. "White flight" is an actual term coined in the middle of the 20th century before I was born, but is the essence of why Birmingham is so tangled with sprawl of incorporated municipalities. It's not my term, but consider it redacted for our purposes. I personally believe Birmingham would thrive under a County government much like Chattanooga's model, but because of our history and misconceptions -- from both sides of the spectrum -- I believe we are another 50 years from that. So... REDACTED. Thanks. :-)

White flight - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight)

Sorry.

It just wasn't a term I was familiar with.

But I understand what you mean, it was kind of set up as a Caucasian enclave...except no one said it out loud.

In other words, a good area, no inner city crime or poor folks.

Definitely a place for rich pickings burglary wise, but you wouldn't think that particular house would be a magnet.

In fact I don't think it was, as I've said.

Reading between lots of lines, it sounds like someone who knew Mrs Shahan and knew she was going to be alone and defenceless.

Poor lady.

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 01:43 AM
I'm still a bit confused on the conflicting reporting of her coworkers at Hobby Lobby calling for LE to perform a welfare check on Karen due to her not showing up for her scheduled morning shift at the store..and then the reporting about it being actual church officials who came to the Shahan residence and found Karen's body when she did not show up for a scheduled appointment of some type with or involving the church..???..

I'm still confused on how that morning events went down and what exactly it was that set off the official warning bells..was it her coworkers in deciding to call in LE for a welfare check simply due to the fact Karen didn't show up for her Tuesday morning work shift.. As others have mentioned it does seem to be odd that her coworkers would have immediately resorted to LE involvement when she didn't show up for work that morning.. I agree with most that it seems to be an extreme reaction if it is simply just the fact that a coworker didn't show up for one shift...

Or what was it that set off official warning bells with the church officials that led to their going to the Shahan home that morning and entering it to find Karen deceased on the couch??.. Did both of these events happen that morning, as in both the church officials and the coworkers were sounding the alarm in the coworkers calling LE for a welfare check AND the church officials entering her home and found her, thereby calling 911 at that point?.. Did both of these two sets of people/events happen that morning??

If so IMO it does make one question what possibly did they all know prior to this happening that would have made them find it necessary to immediately sound the official warning bells that something very grave/dire had possibly happened with Karen?.. I hope I'm being clear enough in what I am asking, as it is not in any way accusatory or even alluding to anyone/anything in particular.. For example when I am thinking about possible preexisting knowledge being present regarding Karen's welfare that would have made both coworkers and church officials immediately sound the alarms..could it be that Karen had recently had a scare of some type or even had been getting a weird or uneasy vibe about someone(and that someone could be someone she knew or it could be a complete stranger)..if say, she had seen someone lurking around, popping up in different places she was, or even saying or acting inappropriate in some regard.. Something like this I could see Karen having mentioned, if even briefly or just in passing, to fellow coworkers or people at the church..therefor this preexisting knowledge IMO would have made them take immediate notice when she suddenly didn't show up for work/appt..KWIM??

Hopefully that makes sense as its something that I've been thinking on while trying to figure out which of the two reporting is correct regarding who/why sounded the official warning bells that morning..was it the coworkers who called LE for a welfare check when Karen didn't show up for her morning shift??.. Or..was it the church officials who entered the Shahan home finding Karen on the couch and therefor alerted 911??.. Or did both of these events happen as we have seen/heard these two different accounts of why/who sounded the alarm in contacting LE about Karen that morning??

The article that supposedly is quoting authorities indicates that their involvement stemmed from a call reporting Karen's body had been found in the Shahan home.. IMO this is consistent with it being true that it was church officials who entered the Shahan home and found Karen deceased on the couch..this leading to their calling 911 and reporting it..thereby marking the point of how/when LE were contacted with the information of Karen's body being found in the Shahan home..

Could it be that Hobby Lobby employees separately contacted LE about Karen Shahan as well Tuesday morning?.. I suppose that's possible, but once again I have come full circle in it leading me to believe that if indeed two separate groups of people were immediately fearful of Karen's welfare to the point of contacting LE..well, IMO I would strongly believe its possible that there was some issue that Karen had atleast made mention to others regarding someone/something that she was leery of, uneasy about, or was somehow troubling to her...

All jmo in looking at the possibility of there being someone, whose actions/behaviors had caused concern or worry for Karen to a degree that she had shared or spoken about it to others in the time leading up to her death..

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 01:54 AM
I'm still a bit confused on the conflicting reporting of her coworkers at Hobby Lobby calling for LE to perform a welfare check on Karen due to her not showing up for her scheduled morning shift at the store..and then the reporting about it being actual church officials who came to the Shahan residence and found Karen's body when she did not show up for a scheduled appointment of some type with or involving the church..???..

I'm still confused on how that morning events went down and what exactly it was that set off the official warning bells..was it her coworkers in deciding to call in LE for a welfare check simply due to the fact Karen didn't show up for her Tuesday morning work shift.. As others have mentioned it does seem to be odd that her coworkers would have immediately resorted to LE involvement when she didn't show up for work that morning.. I agree with most that it seems to be an extreme reaction if it is simply just the fact that a coworker didn't show up for one shift...

Or what was it that set off official warning bells with the church officials that led to their going to the Shahan home that morning and entering it to find Karen deceased on the couch??.. Did both of these events happen that morning, as in both the church officials and the coworkers were sounding the alarm in the coworkers calling LE for a welfare check AND the church officials entering her home and found her, thereby calling 911 at that point?.. Did both of these two sets of people/events happen that morning??

If so IMO it does make one question what possibly did they all know prior to this happening that would have made them find it necessary to immediately sound the official warning bells that something very grave/dire had possibly happened with Karen?.. I hope I'm being clear enough in what I am asking, as it is not in any way accusatory or even alluding to anyone/anything in particular.. For example when I am thinking about possible preexisting knowledge being present regarding Karen's welfare that would have made both coworkers and church officials immediately sound the alarms..could it be that Karen had recently had a scare of some type or even had been getting a weird or uneasy vibe about someone(and that someone could be someone she knew or it could be a complete stranger)..if say, she had seen someone lurking around, popping up in different places she was, or even saying or acting inappropriate in some regard.. Something like this I could see Karen having mentioned, if even briefly or just in passing, to fellow coworkers or people at the church..therefor this preexisting knowledge IMO would have made them take immediate notice when she suddenly didn't show up for work/appt..KWIM??

Hopefully that makes sense as its something that I've been thinking on while trying to figure out which of the two reporting is correct regarding who/why sounded the official warning bells that morning..was it the coworkers who called LE for a welfare check when Karen didn't show up for her morning shift??.. Or..was it the church officials who entered the Shahan home finding Karen on the couch and therefor alerted 911??.. Or did both of these events happen as we have seen/heard these two different accounts of why/who sounded the alarm in contacting LE about Karen that morning??

The article that supposedly is quoting authorities indicates that their involvement stemmed from a call reporting Karen's body had been found in the Shahan home.. IMO this is consistent with it being true that it was church officials who entered the Shahan home and found Karen deceased on the couch..this leading to their calling 911 and reporting it..thereby marking the point of how/when LE were contacted with the information of Karen's body being found in the Shahan home..

Could it be that Hobby Lobby employees separately contacted LE about Karen Shahan as well Tuesday morning?.. I suppose that's possible, but once again I have come full circle in it leading me to believe that if indeed two separate groups of people were immediately fearful of Karen's welfare to the point of contacting LE..well, IMO I would strongly believe its possible that there was some issue that Karen had atleast made mention to others regarding someone/something that she was leery of, uneasy about, or was somehow troubling to her...

All jmo in looking at the possibility of there being someone, whose actions/behaviors had caused concern or worry for Karen to a degree that she had shared or spoken about it to others in the time leading up to her death..


Please cite where you received the information that Church Officials or anyone from the Church discovered Ms. Shahan's body... or called 911. I can find nothing to support this. This information would change my whole outlook on this but I can't find it. If you find the article, please link it and quote the actual sentences in the reply.

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 02:37 AM
Please cite where you received the information that Church Officials or anyone from the Church discovered Ms. Shahan's body... or called 911. I can find nothing to support this. This information would change my whole outlook on this but I can't find it. If you find the article, please link it and quote the actual sentences in the reply.

Well its been quoted numerous times, here..They're the facts we've had and are not new.


She was found late morning July 23 by church officials after not showing up for a previously scheduled appointment and work.
http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1

I stated that the below is consistent with it being church officials are who alerted LE..and IMO that is exactly what the below quote is, consistent with church officials being who alerted LE after they found Karen's body in the Shahan home..

Shortly after 11am officers responded to a report of a dead body in the Shahan home.
www.wset.com/story/22931651/homewood-police-continue-homicide-investigation-thursdaY

Hope That Helps:)

SapphireSteel
08-03-2013, 03:10 AM
Well its been quoted numerous times, here..They're the facts we've had and are not new.

http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1

I stated that the below is consistent with it being church officials are who alerted LE..and IMO that is exactly what the below quote is, consistent with church officials being who alerted LE after they found Karen's body in the Shahan home..

www.wset.com/story/22931651/homewood-police-continue-homicide-investigation-thursdaY

Hope That Helps:)

I've read the opposite. :waitasec:


Police responded to the Shahan home at 102 Hugh Circle after co-workers called, concerned after Karen Shahan didn't show up for work at Hobby Lobby.

Officers found Shahan's body on her couch around 11:15 a.m. Tuesday. Homewood police haven't yet said how she died, but said it was apparent someone killed her.

I read that the co-worker who was originally concerned was Mrs Shahan's mother, but I can't find the link. Mrs Shahan didn't appear to pick her mom up as scheduled (I assume they worked together) nor did she answer the phone so she called the Hobby Lobby who in turn called LE, who then went to the house and found her.

http://www.myfoxal.com/story/22920282/coroner-identifies-woman-found-dead-in-homewood

IHAVENOCLUE
08-03-2013, 03:14 AM
I'm still a bit confused on the conflicting reporting of her coworkers at Hobby Lobby calling for LE to perform a welfare check on Karen due to her not showing up for her scheduled morning shift at the store..and then the reporting about it being actual church officials who came to the Shahan residence and found Karen's body when she did not show up for a scheduled appointment of some type with or involving the church..???..

I'm still confused on how that morning events went down and what exactly it was that set off the official warning bells..was it her coworkers in deciding to call in LE for a welfare check simply due to the fact Karen didn't show up for her Tuesday morning work shift.. As others have mentioned it does seem to be odd that her coworkers would have immediately resorted to LE involvement when she didn't show up for work that morning.. I agree with most that it seems to be an extreme reaction if it is simply just the fact that a coworker didn't show up for one shift...

Or what was it that set off official warning bells with the church officials that led to their going to the Shahan home that morning and entering it to find Karen deceased on the couch??.. Did both of these events happen that morning, as in both the church officials and the coworkers were sounding the alarm in the coworkers calling LE for a welfare check AND the church officials entering her home and found her, thereby calling 911 at that point?.. Did both of these two sets of people/events happen that morning??

If so IMO it does make one question what possibly did they all know prior to this happening that would have made them find it necessary to immediately sound the official warning bells that something very grave/dire had possibly happened with Karen?.. I hope I'm being clear enough in what I am asking, as it is not in any way accusatory or even alluding to anyone/anything in particular.. For example when I am thinking about possible preexisting knowledge being present regarding Karen's welfare that would have made both coworkers and church officials immediately sound the alarms..could it be that Karen had recently had a scare of some type or even had been getting a weird or uneasy vibe about someone(and that someone could be someone she knew or it could be a complete stranger)..if say, she had seen someone lurking around, popping up in different places she was, or even saying or acting inappropriate in some regard.. Something like this I could see Karen having mentioned, if even briefly or just in passing, to fellow coworkers or people at the church..therefor this preexisting knowledge IMO would have made them take immediate notice when she suddenly didn't show up for work/appt..KWIM??

Hopefully that makes sense as its something that I've been thinking on while trying to figure out which of the two reporting is correct regarding who/why sounded the official warning bells that morning..was it the coworkers who called LE for a welfare check when Karen didn't show up for her morning shift??.. Or..was it the church officials who entered the Shahan home finding Karen on the couch and therefor alerted 911??.. Or did both of these events happen as we have seen/heard these two different accounts of why/who sounded the alarm in contacting LE about Karen that morning??

The article that supposedly is quoting authorities indicates that their involvement stemmed from a call reporting Karen's body had been found in the Shahan home.. IMO this is consistent with it being true that it was church officials who entered the Shahan home and found Karen deceased on the couch..this leading to their calling 911 and reporting it..thereby marking the point of how/when LE were contacted with the information of Karen's body being found in the Shahan home..

Could it be that Hobby Lobby employees separately contacted LE about Karen Shahan as well Tuesday morning?.. I suppose that's possible, but once again I have come full circle in it leading me to believe that if indeed two separate groups of people were immediately fearful of Karen's welfare to the point of contacting LE..well, IMO I would strongly believe its possible that there was some issue that Karen had atleast made mention to others regarding someone/something that she was leery of, uneasy about, or was somehow troubling to her...

All jmo in looking at the possibility of there being someone, whose actions/behaviors had caused concern or worry for Karen to a degree that she had shared or spoken about it to others in the time leading up to her death..

I, too, wondered about the differing reports on who and why calls were made to LE on that day...

Good point that it may have been a combination of the two versions...

additionally... Just a thought... But could one of her co-workers have also been a fellow church member?

JMO

LambChop
08-03-2013, 07:53 AM
At the age of 52 I would think her mom's concern would be that she could have had a heart attack or a stroke. Or even had fallen and was unable to get to the phone. The mother may have even called the church to see if anyone had seen her. It's possible Karen did not go on the trip with her husband because she did not feel well. I doubt their first thought was that she was killed. Normally your mind just does not go there. jmo

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 08:49 AM
You guys seem to have a warped ideal of what it means to be 52 years old. :-)

pamlet
08-03-2013, 09:13 AM
I, too, wondered about the differing reports on who and why calls were made to LE on that day...

Good point that it may have been a combination of the two versions...

additionally... Just a thought... But could one of her co-workers have also been a fellow church member?

JMO

The reporting is so minimal ..

It could easily be that the co-worker (or mother.. whoever) .. called people at the church - knowing she had an appointment .. when the folks at the church put 2 and 2 together .. missing both the appointment and work .. they went over to check it out.

I can see how it would be reported as either church folks calling - OR co-worker "reporting" it ..

I do think it was a matter of 2 missed things setting off some alarm bells - especially if she was always prompt.

I can hear the conversation... "Man - I hope she's OK" especially if (probably) they knew her husband was out of town.

LambChop
08-03-2013, 09:20 AM
You guys seem to have a warped ideal of what it means to be 52 years old. :-)

Been there, done that. Really 52 years old is not too young for a woman to have a heart attack or stroke. Not saying that was their thoughts but to call for a wellness check they were all concerned about her either being ill or injured. I doubt they thought she had been killed. jmo

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 09:32 AM
Been there, done that. Really 52 years old is not too young for a woman to have a heart attack or stroke. Not saying that was their thoughts but to call for a wellness check they were all concerned about her either being ill or injured. I doubt they thought she had been killed. jmo

I think that is exactly what our fellow Sleuths are debating; whether are not others had some information as to whether she feared she was in some sort of danger and had shared that with friends/coworkers.

LambChop
08-03-2013, 09:41 AM
I think that is exactly what our fellow Sleuths are debating; whether are not others had some information as to whether she feared she was in some sort of danger and had shared that with friends/coworkers.

That could very well be the case. It is very interesting that we are hearing nothing from the community or from LE about what could have possibly happened. I live in a small community and rumors that would have portions of the truth, if not all of the truth, would be flying. Has LE asked the public for help at all in terms if anyone noticed anything unusual??

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 09:42 AM
That could very well be the case. It is very interesting that we are hearing nothing from the community or from LE about what could have possibly happened. I live in a small community and rumors that would have portions of the truth, if not all of the truth, would be flying. Has LE asked the public for help at all in terms if anyone noticed anything unusual??


RUMORS ARE FLYING! If I convey them here you're going to modsnip me. :-) We are all quite certain what happened and for that reason, no, LE is not asking the public for help.

LambChop
08-03-2013, 09:54 AM
RUMORS ARE FLYING! If I convey them here you're going to modsnip me. :-)

LOL. Yes, I have my scissors poised and ready. Let's hope there is a break in the case soon.

SCHMAE
08-03-2013, 10:25 AM
RUMORS ARE FLYING! If I convey them here you're going to modsnip me. :-) We are all quite certain what happened and for that reason, no, LE is not asking the public for help.

You can link to the fb page they're flying at but do not copy them !

LambChop
08-03-2013, 10:42 AM
You can link to the fb page they're flying at but do not copy them !

Only if they do not violate the TOS rules here. Thanks :please:

SCHMAE
08-03-2013, 11:14 AM
Well can they go on and post it and then if they violate, you can snip without TO'ing Brian since we do not KNOW if they violate or not and in the mean time, we can copy the link and read it outside of WS :P purty please LambBoss !

LambChop
08-03-2013, 11:30 AM
If there is anything that is inappropriate to post here just don't do it. If there is a suspicion that it might be inappropriate do not post it. If there is a question and you are not sure ask a MOD first but we all know what the rules are. Pushing the limits might get you a T/O from the higher powers. If there is information that is credible you can post but rumors are not necessarily credible. lol

always reading
08-03-2013, 11:37 AM
Is there a missing page for her on FB?

IHAVENOCLUE
08-03-2013, 11:50 AM
Is there a missing page for her on FB?

... or a "Justice for Karen" Facebook page, either?

TIA...:seeya:

always reading
08-03-2013, 11:54 AM
... or a "Justice for Karen" Facebook page, either?

TIA...:seeya:

Sorry, I'm following so many missing cases, i got them mixed up. Thanks for correcting me.

TGIRecovered
08-03-2013, 11:55 AM
I don't even know the Facebook .

IHAVENOCLUE
08-03-2013, 11:57 AM
Sorry, I'm following so many missing cases, i got them mixed up. Thanks for correcting me.

Oh... I wasn't correcting you at all...

I knew exactly what you meant... And why you requested it...

I almost posted the same thing! :)

Angelonline
08-03-2013, 12:02 PM
You may link to the victims fb or to an official memorial/justice FB (if it has been okayed by WS) otherwise don't link it.

TGIRecovered
08-03-2013, 12:03 PM
You may link to the victims fb or to an official memorial/justice FB (if it has been okayed by WS) otherwise don't link it.

Yes please !

TGIRecovered
08-03-2013, 12:40 PM
Where is everyone? I searched but can't find the page.

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 12:50 PM
There is no page.

TGIRecovered
08-03-2013, 12:54 PM
So what's with the FB talk??

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 12:56 PM
It was just sort of a mass histeria arising from talk of rumors.

Flutterflies
08-03-2013, 01:00 PM
RUMORS ARE FLYING! If I convey them here you're going to modsnip me. :-) We are all quite certain what happened and for that reason, no, LE is not asking the public for help.

Hey fellow Alabamian!

I am new to this case and not to sure of what happened.
Can you enlighten me, please!

always reading
08-03-2013, 01:06 PM
It was just sort of a mass histeria arising from talk of rumors.

So are u hearing the rumors in person or on the internet such as comments on an article?

LambChop
08-03-2013, 01:29 PM
:worms:

Just follow the instructions below. If you are not sure of the Rules they are on the first page.



You may link to the victims fb or to an official memorial/justice FB (if it has been okayed by WS) otherwise don't link it.

Blondie in Spokane
08-03-2013, 01:29 PM
I've gone thru all the posted articles on this thread....am not finding any rumors/comments other than from the first day this was posted....very few otherwise. maybe it's because I use an IPad and a lot of content is unavailable?

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 01:35 PM
I've gone thru all the posted articles on this thread....am not finding any rumors/comments other than from the first day this was posted....very few otherwise. maybe it's because I use an IPad and a lot of content is unavailable?

That is not the reason you are not seeing any rumors in this thread. There is no talk about the rumors because they can't be shared yet. But it's not rocket science.

Cherry
08-03-2013, 01:45 PM
http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2013/07/interim_pastor_consoles_congre.html

Obit

Angelonline
08-03-2013, 01:54 PM
http://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/2013/07/interim_pastor_consoles_congre.html

Obit

Cherry, that's not the obit. That's an article already posted with quotes from another pastor. Did you post the wrong link?

Cherry
08-03-2013, 02:00 PM
Cherry, that's not the obit. That's an article already posted with quotes from another pastor. Did you post the wrong link?

Actually I wanted to post the full links site, which is here, it's where her whole congregation worshipped after her death. So; yes! I meant to put her obit, lol. Instead I'm going to post this link which links to many articles.


[
url]http://topics.al.com/tag/Karen%20Louise%20Shahan/index.html[/url]

AL.com Obit
http://obits.al.com/obituaries/birmingham/obituary.aspx?n=karen-l-shahan&pid=166050997#fbLoggedOut



Obit on churches website:
http://fbcbirmingham.org/

Cherry
08-03-2013, 02:17 PM
http://www.alabamas13.com/story/22925493/homewood-homicide-victim-identified-as-pastors-wife
One video link

Blondie in Spokane
08-03-2013, 02:42 PM
That is not the reason you are not seeing any rumors in this thread. There is no talk about the rumors because they can't be shared yet. But it's not rocket science.

I know we can't post them here...I'm just trying to figure out where they are. Like I mentioned they are not linked to any articles posted here so far.

Obviously I've been here (websleuths) a long time and know the rules. Just trying to keep up with everyone else on this thread.

TGIRecovered
08-03-2013, 02:50 PM
Aww, her poor grandchildren. Everybody needs their Grammy!

Angelonline
08-03-2013, 03:03 PM
Hey guys I am not in charge of this thread, but if you are posting speculation about family members, or sleuthing unrelated people or posting unauthorized links then you are violating our TOS. We at WS do consider the family as victims unless the police tell us otherwise. We do not allow sleuthing of anyone unless they are named as a POI or Suspect. So please go back and edit your posts, I would hate to see anyone get a time out.

LambChop
08-03-2013, 03:06 PM
And please, please do not link to FB pages that have small children. It's against TOS. Because there is not a lot of information about this crime please do not start looking in areas we are not permitted to go. :please:

TGIRecovered
08-03-2013, 03:07 PM
Hey guys I am not in charge of this thread, but if you are posting speculation about family members, or sleuthing unrelated people or posting unauthorized links then you are violating our TOS. We at WS do consider the family as victims unless the police tell us otherwise. We do not allow sleuthing of anyone unless they are named as a POI or Suspect. So please go back and edit your posts, I would hate to see anyone get a time out.

Trust me, Lambchop has an eagle eye on this thread. It's clean as a whistle and then some!

wfgodot
08-03-2013, 03:09 PM
Remember also not to quote posts with iffy links. (Which - d'oh! - I just did awhile ago, mea culpa.) Doubles work for mods when cleaning up.

Angelonline
08-03-2013, 03:09 PM
Lambchop is awesome! :)

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 03:27 PM
Please cite where you received the information that Church Officials or anyone from the Church discovered Ms. Shahan's body... or called 911. I can find nothing to support this. This information would change my whole outlook on this but I can't find it. If you find the article, please link it and quote the actual sentences in the reply.


She was found late morning July 23 by church officials after not showing up for a previously scheduled appointment and work.
http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/pri...9&pricat_art=1

The quote below is consistent with it being church officials who alerted LE after they found Karen's body in the Shahan home..

Quote: Shortly after 11am officers responded to a report of a dead body in the Shahan home.
http://www.wset.com/story/22931651/h...ation-thursdaY
I'm curious as to what/how your entire outlook of the case would change if you found that the info in my post was in fact legitimate due to your having found nothing to support my claims.. With the info now sourced/cited what/how does it change your entire outlook on the case?.. I don't see how it could:waitasec:

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 03:41 PM
I've read the opposite. :waitasec:


Police responded to the Shahan home at 102 Hugh Circle after co-workers called, concerned after Karen Shahan didn't show up for work at Hobby Lobby.

Officers found Shahan's body on her couch around 11:15 a.m. Tuesday. Homewood police haven't yet said how she died, but said it was apparent someone killed her.

I read that the co-worker who was originally concerned was Mrs Shahan's mother, but I can't find the link. Mrs Shahan didn't appear to pick her mom up as scheduled (I assume they worked together) nor did she answer the phone so she called the Hobby Lobby who in turn called LE, who then went to the house and found her.

http://www.myfoxal.com/story/22920282/coroner-identifies-woman-found-dead-in-homewood
Exactly..Hence the entire reason for my questioning which reporting is true.. or did both happen as I droned on about upthread regarding her coworkers and church officials becoming worried and/or alarmed about Karen Tuesday morning..

With so little info at all its difficult to know anything for certain, but that's just the way it goes and in the end as long as LE "knows" and has enough to prove what they know..

I certainly hope Karen's case comes to a quick resolve for the sake of her loved ones and community.

TGIRecovered
08-03-2013, 03:56 PM
I think it's possible that some of the people she worked with might also be affiliated in some way with the church.
For instance, church elders or deacons are usually volunteer positions. These church officials would also have a regular job or business. Hobby lobby is a business with a Christian mission statement. That's why they close on Sunday. I would think that it would be the type of business that other church members would choose to work for.

MOO

i.b.nora
08-03-2013, 04:27 PM
Do we know if Karen accompanied her husband on his two Church trips to Kazahktan in the last year and if she would have been going with him this year as well?

The May 2013 church newsletter talks about it and about welcoming a visitor to the church on May 22, the person with whom he is doing some translating and other work with.

http://fbcbirmingham.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/MAY-NEWSLETTER.pdf

Maybe Hobby Lobby gives people time-off for ministerial trips?

StellarBlu
08-03-2013, 04:30 PM
This report says "a friend" called the police when she couldn't reach Karen. It also indicates that the staff at Hobby Lobby didn't know anything until a family member called them. Maybe the family member's call prompted co-workers to call police? Not sure if that makes sense. http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/23/body-found-in-homewood-prompts-homicide-investigation/

This report tells of a neighbor hearing a "loud thud" around 11 p.m. on Monday night. I hadn't seen that reported elsewhere. http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/25/karen-shahan-murder-investigation-continues/

The lack of comments or communication from both the LE and the community does seem odd to me. It's a heartbreaking occurrence and I would expect to see more of an outpouring from the community -- maybe it's there but just not showing up in the online world.

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 04:39 PM
yes, I agree with those about there likely is a meshing of the Hobby Lobby employees and the church[officials].. and that it was likely a combination of both her coworkers(who could also be church members) and church officials that upon their sharing the info of Karen's not showing for work/appt Tuesday morning with each other is what led to the growing concern of Karen's well being..

Re: requesting link for Karen's mom being a coworker. I am not requesting sleuthing the family, I am requesting that the info upthread be backed with a link or completely omitted altogether.

ClemiFern
08-03-2013, 04:41 PM
This report says "a friend" called the police when she couldn't reach Karen. It also indicates that the staff at Hobby Lobby didn't know anything until a family member called them. Maybe the family member's call prompted co-workers to call police? Not sure if that makes sense. http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/23/body-found-in-homewood-prompts-homicide-investigation/

This report tells of a neighbor hearing a "loud thud" around 11 p.m. on Monday night. I hadn't seen that reported elsewhere. http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/25/karen-shahan-murder-investigation-continues/

The lack of comments or communication from both the LE and the community does seem odd to me. It's a heartbreaking occurrence and I would expect to see more of an outpouring from the community -- maybe it's there but just not showing up in the online world.


I read that about a day or 2 after it happened and had not been able to find the link where I read it. I have searched and searched for it so thank you but I clicked on the link you provided and I didn't see it there either. If you go back to the first 2 pages you'll see where I posted that I read this but couldn't find the link.

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 04:51 PM
Welcome StellarBlu!

Thanks for the links as it is "news" to me as well especially about a neighbor saying they heard a loud "thud" Monday night..

StellarBlu
08-03-2013, 04:54 PM
I read that about a day or 2 after it happened and had not been able to find the link where I read it. I have searched and searched for it so thank you but I clicked on the link you provided and I didn't see it there either. If you go back to the first 2 pages you'll see where I posted that I read this but couldn't find the link.

About 3/4s of the way through the video the reporter talks about interviewing the neighbor who heard something that night. I haven't seen it mentioned in print anywhere, just this video.

ClemiFern
08-03-2013, 04:59 PM
About 3/4s of the way through the video the reporter talks about interviewing the neighbor who heard something that night. I haven't seen it mentioned in print anywhere, just this video.

Thank you! I have driven myself crazy looking for it...lol. It was in print when I saw it and the station must have removed that because I haven't listened to any video about it at all. No wonder I haven't been able to find it again. My sanity is restored.

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 04:59 PM
Shahan worked at the Hobby Lobby on Lakeshore Drive in Homewood. Staff there tell us everyone loved her. They didn’t know anything happened until a family member called this morning. http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/23/body-found-in-homewood-prompts-homicide-investigation/

Just utterly baffling.. WTH??.. So, now according to this article Hobby Lobby was totally unaware of anything having happened to Karen UNTIL WEDNESDAY, JULY 24, MORNING when a family member of Karen's called the store..

i.b.nora
08-03-2013, 05:05 PM
IF Karen's mother was still living and working at Hobby Lobby, wouldn't she be mentioned in Karen's Obit?

txsvicki
08-03-2013, 05:16 PM
I wasn't looking to try and find any family names at all, but did notice when looking at the obituary that none of her family was listed besides husband and kids. Maybe it's a regional thing or the nature of the crime and privacy, but I thought it a little odd.

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 05:16 PM
IF Karen's mother was still living and working at Hobby Lobby, wouldn't she be mentioned in Karen's Obit?
IMO Definitely!

LambChop
08-03-2013, 05:18 PM
I wasn't looking to try and find any family names at all, but did notice when looking at the obituary that none of her family was listed besides husband and kids. Maybe it's a regional thing or the nature of the crime and privacy, but I thought it a little odd.

It could be because they do not know who killed her that they did not want to put names in the paper. jmo

i.b.nora
08-03-2013, 05:25 PM
Saturday's memorial service was held at First Baptist Church of Birmingham, where her husband, the Rev. Richard Shahan, serves as an associate pastor. Karen Shahan's family members - her husband, two sons, father, brother and aunt - sat along the front row of the church for the service.

From: http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/07/slain_wife_of_homewood_pastor.html

This is the only mention I have seen of a living father (or any father). She did have two brothers, however, both living.

killarney rose
08-03-2013, 05:29 PM
As one who lives in the region, I can say that immediate family, parents, siblings, kids, etc. are usually included in obits unless there is a reason not to. Even if they are also deceased, they will be listed as such.

meanmaryjean
08-03-2013, 05:35 PM
I wasn't looking to try and find any family names at all, but did notice when looking at the obituary that none of her family was listed besides husband and kids. Maybe it's a regional thing or the nature of the crime and privacy, but I thought it a little odd.

Many, many newspapers now charge $$ for obits. By the word. It is not uncommon here for there to be a brief (2 line) death notice with a link to the funeral home website - and THERE the complete obituary is available.

And I find this odd (caveat, my husband is a minister and has conducted scores of funerals): The interim pastor spending time praising what a great guy the husband is, during his wife's funeral. I do not remember this EVER happening at any funeral I have ever attended.

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 05:35 PM
In my going thru and clicking closed the multitude of windows I had open re: Karen's homicide, I quickly copy/pasted them into a quick list for us to have to refer to when need be to any/all things stated in the media about the case..

Links to media re: Karen Shahan homicide Birmingham, AL

http://interactives.cbs42.com/photomojo/gallery/8415/164229/homewood-homicide-investigation-/crime-scene-investigation/

http://m.timesdaily.com/news/state/article_59e812f4-f474-11e2-b883-0019bb30f31a.html?mode=jqm

http://www.wset.com/story/22931651/homewood-police-continue-homicide-investigation-thursday

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/07/woman_found_slain_in_homewood.html

http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1

http://m.myfoxal.com/autojuice?targetUrl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.myfoxal.com%2 fstory%2f22920282%2fcoroner-identifies-woman-found-dead-in-homewood

http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/25/karen-shahan-murder-investigation-continues/

http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/23/body-found-in-homewood-prompts-homicide-investigation/

http://www.wsmv.com/story/22920189/wife-of-ala-preacher-found-dead-in-home

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/jul/24/wife-alabama-preacher-found-dead-home-suburban-bir/

www.atoast2wealth.com/2013/07/29/wife-of-alabama-minister-found-murdered-in-home-no-leads-in-case/

http://blackchristiannews.com/state/alabama/2013/07/29/interim-pastor-consoles-congregation-after-most-brutal-murder-of-associate-pastors-wife/

Chattanooga Times Free Press - Minister's wife found slain
www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx?issue...

http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20130726/APN/1307260692

StellarBlu
08-03-2013, 06:04 PM
Many, many newspapers now charge $$ for obits. By the word. It is not uncommon here for there to be a brief (2 line) death notice with a link to the funeral home website - and THERE the complete obituary is available.

And I find this odd (caveat, my husband is a minister and has conducted scores of funerals): The interim pastor spending time praising what a great guy the husband is, during his wife's funeral. I do not remember this EVER happening at any funeral I have ever attended.


On the length of the obit ... when my brother passed, I opted for the abbreviated version, just as you mentioned. The cost of doing something more detailed was a bit of a shock.

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 06:04 PM
I think it's possible that some of the people she worked with might also be affiliated in some way with the church.
For instance, church elders or deacons are usually volunteer positions. These church officials would also have a regular job or business. Hobby lobby is a business with a Christian mission statement. That's why they close on Sunday. I would think that it would be the type of business that other church members would choose to work for.

MOO

I spoke with a coworker of Shahan's at Hobby Lobby today. I shop at that location for my business on a weekly basis She reiterated that it was they who DID ask for a welfare check by LE. I am not aware that the mother worked with her and don't believe this to be the case. I have no information about Church members being coworkers. Karen Shahan did "close" the Hobby Lobby location on Monday night and left there around 8:30pm. Additionally, I was informed that she was wearing a nightgown when her body was found. Additionally, I learned that Richard Shahan had gone to help move one of the two sons, the one that lived in Franklin, TN, back to Birmingham to live in their home and go to college in Birmingham. Mr. Shahan was described as catatonic during the memorial service. The body has not been released by investigators.

txsvicki
08-03-2013, 06:08 PM
Hopefully police are never swayed by influential members or religious status when questioning a murder. It's probably very traumatic and could put some in defense mode, which could affect the wording of a funeral service.

i.b.nora
08-03-2013, 06:13 PM
Franklin, Kentucky is about three and a half hours from Homewood, Alabama or about 240 miles.

This is correct distance but wrong state. The one son was in Franklin, Tennesse which is about 2 hours 38 mins from Homewood, AL or 180 miles.

To correct my mistake.

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 06:18 PM
Franklin, Kentucky is about three and a half hours from Homewood, Alabama or about 240 miles.

Don't confuse the two... One son is in the Military in KY... The other is in Franklin Tennessee.

i.b.nora
08-03-2013, 06:20 PM
I don't think this has been posted before. It's interesting to me:


“She was a fine, fine Christian lady and a faithful member of the choir,” said Don Campbell, who served as minister of music and worship (1993–2009) and later pastor of senior adults and pastoral care (2010–2012) at First, Birmingham.

“[Karen] was always positive, always supportive and encouraging,” said Campbell, who now serves as minister of worship at The Baptist Church at McAdory, McCalla.

Campbell said Karen Shahan “worked a lot behind the scenes. … She was always so positive and so gracious in opening her home to staff and others.”

Her death has been a shock to the First, Birmingham, congregation, Carter said, but the congregation has pulled together to help.

Two church staff members immediately drove to Kentucky to pick up Richard and drive him back home when Karen was found, Carter noted. Richard had been in Franklin, Tenn., and Fort Campbell, Ky., visiting his and Karen’s sons, Kyle and Colin. Kyle lives in Franklin, and Colin is in the Army serving at Fort Campbell. Colin and his wife, Elizabeth, have two children.

A church ministry assistant helped Colin navigate the red tape involved in getting a military pass to be off post for an extended period of time.

Church officials also cleaned up the Shahan house once it was released by police and helped with several funeral-related duties, Carter added, noting the church is paying for all funeral expenses as another way to help the family during this time.

- See more at: http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1#sthash.94PPRmLY.dpuf

i.b.nora
08-03-2013, 06:24 PM
Don't confuse the two... One son is in the Military in KY... The other is in Franklin Tennessee.
My error, thanks for the correction.

Franklin, TN > 2 hours 38 mins > Homewood, AL (180.2 miles)

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 06:28 PM
Franklin is straight up I 65. I drive it in about 1hr 45 minutes.

Make that 2 hours 15 minutes... I used to work a lot up there. I may be thinking of Pulaski... It seems very close to me,,, Franklin.

SapphireSteel
08-03-2013, 07:04 PM
<modsnip> It's pretty clear to me that if this crime is as viscous as the LE team is saying it is; then this is PERSONAL. Meaning someone who knew her and loved/hated her killed her. Not a stranger. There isn't any other motive.

There could be a bunch of motives, we just don't know about.

That sort of "overkill" could also come from a stranger having a psychotic episode and thinking Mrs Shahan was Godzilla and he was saving the world.

Unfortunately same old story, LE aren't sharing if there's signs of forced entry, a known threat, etc so at this point we can't be sure of anything.

:twocents:

T4Tide
08-03-2013, 07:25 PM
As one who lives in the region, I can say that immediate family, parents, siblings, kids, etc. are usually included in obits unless there is a reason not to. Even if they are also deceased, they will be listed as such.

This. And if your second cousin's husband's brother's great aunt had a stillbirth, it would probably be listed as a "precedent in death." We Southerners usually put all kinfolk in the obits.

killarney rose
08-03-2013, 07:35 PM
This. And if your second cousin's husband's brother's great aunt had a stillbirth, it would probably be listed as a "precedent in death." We Southerners usually put all kinfolk in the obits.

Sometimes even our "beloved companion Fido". ;)

LambChop
08-03-2013, 07:39 PM
The absolute last thing a spouse worries about when their partner has been murdered is an obituary. The very last thing. It is a public notice of death and I can't imagine what that would be like when you're in a state of shock. I imagine it was done for the family. It's not important. It's hard enough when your husband dies from a terminal illness and family later complains that you forgot to mention them. jmo

IHAVENOCLUE
08-03-2013, 07:46 PM
In my going thru and clicking closed the multitude of windows I had open re: Karen's homicide, I quickly copy/pasted them into a quick list for us to have to refer to when need be to any/all things stated in the media about the case..

Links to media re: Karen Shahan homicide Birmingham, AL

http://interactives.cbs42.com/photomojo/gallery/8415/164229/homewood-homicide-investigation-/crime-scene-investigation/

http://m.timesdaily.com/news/state/article_59e812f4-f474-11e2-b883-0019bb30f31a.html?mode=jqm

http://www.wset.com/story/22931651/homewood-police-continue-homicide-investigation-thursday

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/07/woman_found_slain_in_homewood.html

http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=28309&pricat_art=1

http://m.myfoxal.com/autojuice?targetUrl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.myfoxal.com%2 fstory%2f22920282%2fcoroner-identifies-woman-found-dead-in-homewood

http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/25/karen-shahan-murder-investigation-continues/

http://www.cbs42.com/2013/07/23/body-found-in-homewood-prompts-homicide-investigation/

http://www.wsmv.com/story/22920189/wife-of-ala-preacher-found-dead-in-home

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/jul/24/wife-alabama-preacher-found-dead-home-suburban-bir/

www.atoast2wealth.com/2013/07/29/wife-of-alabama-minister-found-murdered-in-home-no-leads-in-case/

http://blackchristiannews.com/state/alabama/2013/07/29/interim-pastor-consoles-congregation-after-most-brutal-murder-of-associate-pastors-wife/

Chattanooga Times Free Press - Minister's wife found slain
www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx?issue...

http://www.gadsdentimes.com/article/20130726/APN/1307260692

Thanks, Smoothie!

This list is so helpful!

:yourock:

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 07:49 PM
I spoke with a coworker of Shahan's at Hobby Lobby today. I shop at that location for my business on a weekly basis She reiterated that it was they who DID ask for a welfare check by LE. I am not aware that the mother worked with her and don't believe this to be the case. I have no information about Church members being coworkers. Karen Shahan did "close" the Hobby Lobby location on Monday night and left there around 8:30pm. Additionally, I was informed that she was wearing a nightgown when her body was found. Additionally, I learned that Richard Shahan had gone to help move one of the two sons, the one that lived in Franklin, TN, back to Birmingham to live in their home and go to college in Birmingham. Mr. Shahan was described as catatonic during the memorial service. The body has not been released by investigators.

Thanks for sharing the above info as well as clarifying that her coworkers are who contacted LE requesting the welfare check on Karen that morning.. I guess I am left with the question of why is it that the church, themselves are the very ones who are stating that it was church officials who found Karen deceased on Tuesday morning?? (and yes, I realize that you, personally do not have the answer to this question as I am merely pointing out the different info that we have)..:waitasec:


She was found late morning July 23 by church officials after not showing up for a previously scheduled appointment and work.
http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/pri...9&pricat_art=1

i.b.nora
08-03-2013, 07:55 PM
http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/07/brutal_slaying_of_homewood_pas.html

Brutal slaying of Homewood pastor's wife is exception, not norm, for the city, mayor says
By Carol Robinson |
on July 24, 2013 at 5:21 PM, updated July 24, 2013 at 5:38 PM

Snipped

"Co-workers of Karen Shahan became concerned when she didn't show up for work Tuesday at Hobby Lobby in Wildwood. Homewood police officers were dispatched to the scene on a welfare check. Police have not said how the woman died, but said it was apparent that she was murdered. The house appeared to be in disarray, authorities said."

+

"A co-worker of Shahan said many of them just learned of her death this morning and said they are sad. They said they weren't allowed to discuss it further, and referred calls to the company's home office."

"Vince Parker, a Hobby Lobby spokesman, released the following statement: "We are deeply saddened by the loss of one of our employees. Our thoughts and prayers go out to her family.""

My personal opnion is, based on articles, videos, and supported by what BrianB said above about chatting with a store clerk: It was a co-worker and friend who initially called the police for the welfare check. The two are not mutually exclusive. The co-worker who said "many had not learned of her death until this morning" may not have been working in the store on Tuesday and is obviously not the person who called the police. Also, her identity was withheld from the public. Thus they learn about it the next day when they go to work and hear what happened.

The 'Corporate' arm of the Hobby Lobby ordered the employees not to talk about it. i.e. Vincent Parker, Hobby Lobby Spokesman located at headquarters in Oklahoma. Hobby Lobby is very sad about the loss, etc. They just want it to go away and not blemish their 'culture'.

meanmaryjean
08-03-2013, 07:56 PM
Thanks for sharing the above info as well as clarifying that her coworkers are who contacted LE requesting the welfare check on Karen that morning.. I guess I am left with the question of why is it that the church, themselves are the very ones who are stating that it was church officials who found Karen deceased on Tuesday morning?? (and yes, I realize that you, personally do not have the answer to this question as I am merely pointing out the different info that we have)..:waitasec:

PERHAPS as 'landlords' the church had the key to the property? And they let LE in the home - thus the two versions of the same story? Mebbe

ATasteOfHoney
08-03-2013, 08:03 PM
Didn't LE used to routinely let the communities of violent crimes know if they had to "be on the lookout for" or "take reasonable measures to protect"?

Why am I not seeing this anymore in cases of murders and abductions?

Doesn't the community need to know if there's a maniac on the loose, what way this person gained entry? ETC, ETC,

I mean, I'd be very afraid if I lived in the immediate area----and perhaps unnecessarily so. But we don't know, do we?

EllaMae
08-03-2013, 08:22 PM
The absolute last thing a spouse worries about when their partner has been murdered is an obituary. The very last thing. It is a public notice of death and I can't imagine what that would be like when you're in a state of shock. I imagine it was done for the family. It's not important. It's hard enough when your husband dies from a terminal illness and family later complains that you forgot to mention them. jmo

I totally agree. I am a Birmingham native, and my family is as Southern as you can get...and we don't do long obits either.
But especially under those terrible circumstances, I doubt anyone was up to writing an elaborate obituary.

txsvicki
08-03-2013, 08:24 PM
I wonder if the church owned homes had alarm systems. Articles have said most people rented in the area and moved frequently, the neighbor said she's getting an alarm, and the Mayor or someone said most police calls are about alarms going off instead of actual crime.

SmoothOperator
08-03-2013, 08:36 PM
PERHAPS as 'landlords' the church had the key to the property? And they let LE in the home - thus the two versions of the same story? Mebbe

ding! ding! ding! meanmaryjean, I think we may just have a winner as to how these two versions mesh wrt both the coworkers and church officials!.. Thanks for relaying what should have been the simple, obvious, yet it had eluded my mind up til now..

oceanblueeyes
08-03-2013, 08:45 PM
Didn't LE used to routinely let the communities of violent crimes know if they had to "be on the lookout for" or "take reasonable measures to protect"?

Why am I not seeing this anymore in cases of murders and abductions?

Doesn't the community need to know if there's a maniac on the loose, what way this person gained entry? ETC, ETC,

I mean, I'd be very afraid if I lived in the immediate area----and perhaps unnecessarily so. But we don't know, do we?

I'm not sure if they have ever done this on a consistent basis when it was warranted but I can only remember one case in recent memory where LE actually came out to warn the public and that was in the Jessica Ridgeway case. But other than that one they didn't even do it in some of the most high profile cases where children were kidnapped/raped, and later found murdered by a pedophile who was a stranger. Not once warning any of the communities. :(

In fact I have seen police come out many times and say they believe the victim was "targeted" as if to imply it was someone known to them and it turned out to be a total stranger. For example, two cases come to mind where this was done although there are many more. The Hufsted parents and Sara Walker...all three victims were murdered by strangers. The motives were home invasions for the purpose of robbery......and murdering the victims inside the dwelling in order to silence the witnesses. So 'targeted' may simply mean LE thinks the suspect targeted this particular house to rob.

I haven't read much about this case but it seems the house was found in disarray. That makes me think that this poor woman may be the victim of a home invasion.

I hope LE can solve this case.

LambChop
08-03-2013, 08:46 PM
If Karen closed the Hobby Lobby that night maybe someone thought she had that days cash from the register on her. If someone had been in the store late and noticed that there was a lot of cash in the drawer they may have followed her and waited until they thought she went to bed to come into the house. jmo

meanmaryjean
08-03-2013, 08:51 PM
ding! ding! ding! meanmaryjean, I think we may just have a winner as to how these two versions mesh wrt both the coworkers and church officials!.. Thanks for relaying what should have been the simple, obvious, yet it had eluded my mind up til now..

I think what happened was I FINALLY got enough coffee in me after my night shift :)

LambChop
08-03-2013, 08:55 PM
I think what happened was I FINALLY got enough coffee in me after my night shift :)

:floorlaugh:

txsvicki
08-03-2013, 09:03 PM
Was she a manager at HL? Someone could have also have thought she might have access to money inside the church. That might not explain her home being in disarray though.

BrianInBirmingham
08-03-2013, 09:04 PM
If Karen closed the Hobby Lobby that night maybe someone thought she had that days cash from the register on her. If someone had been in the store late and noticed that there was a lot of cash in the drawer they may have followed her and waited until they thought she went to bed to come into the house. jmo

By "closing" I think that meant Mrs. Shahan was there until close and did closing duties. I don't think that means she was the last or only. My understanding is that she rarely worked checkout. She was the Floral Department Manager.

LambChop
08-03-2013, 09:07 PM
By "closing" I think that meant Mrs. Shahan was there until close and did closing duties. I don't think that means she was the last or only. My understanding is that she rarely worked checkout. She was the Floral Department Manager.

Okay, well scratch that possibility.

killarney rose
08-03-2013, 09:17 PM
A couple of thoughts......i thought someone might have saw her leaving work and followed her. I think HL closes at 8:00, then they have closing procedures, but given that it is dusk here at 8:00, it would have been dark by time she left to go home. Just a thought she couldve been followed and it wouldnt have been robbery he had in mind.


Regarding obituaries, unfortunately i have lost enough loved ones, the norm here is that when the family goes to the funeral home to make arrangements, the director sits with them and together they write the obituary.

txsvicki
08-03-2013, 09:43 PM
Mrs. Shahan seemed like a very unlikely target for murder. Has her death been officially classified as homocide yet or is that based on the cop's statement for now? I hope the authorities give a statement when they get all the evidence or autopsy reports.

TGIRecovered
08-03-2013, 10:05 PM
Does anyone know when Karen's husband left on his trip? Was he gone the night before or was Monday the first night he was away and she was home alone?

txsvicki
08-03-2013, 10:40 PM
I read somewhere that they had just finished a children's program, or maybe it was vacation Bible school. That leads me to another thought in wondering if the house being in disarray was verified as related to crime. People working really hard at practically two jobs might leave straightening up behind until some days off. I'd never have made it as a preacher's wife.

ClemiFern
08-04-2013, 03:26 AM
I wonder if the church owned homes had alarm systems. Articles have said most people rented in the area and moved frequently, the neighbor said she's getting an alarm, and the Mayor or someone said most police calls are about alarms going off instead of actual crime.


If you go back and read the articles about the crime, you will see that the church owned "all" of the homes on Hugh Circle. Therefore, the church probably owned the neighbor's home (if it was on that street) and it apparently did NOT have an alarm system which is why the neighbor was installing one.

Typically, homes do not come with alarm services. That is a monthly monitoring service that must be purchased by the tenant.

TGIRecovered
08-04-2013, 06:32 AM
If you go back and read the articles about the crime, you will see that the church owned "all" of the homes on Hugh Circle. Therefore, the church probably owned the neighbor's home (if it was on that street) and it apparently did NOT have an alarm system which is why the neighbor was installing one.

Typically, homes do not come with alarm services. That is a monthly monitoring service that must be purchased by the tenant.

I'm sure that the church members living in those homes felt a tight sense of community since they knew each other and probably looked out for each other.

I lived on a street like that once. We always knew when a neighbor had visitors or if some annoying door to door
person was around. We all kept each others phone #s and called before they got to the next house. We knew when someone's hubby was out of town, which dog belonged where and shared garage codes to care for pets and plants when someone was out of town.
It would have taken the Pink Panther to sneak in and murder one of us without being spotted. ( And he would have needed to pass the sniff test with our dogs too!)

If Karen's neighbors saw something out of place I think we would have heard about it. That's just my opinion.

I'll bet attendance will be very good today at the church. Folding chairs in the aisles good. Maybe some news tomorrow?

SCHMAE
08-04-2013, 08:03 AM
If you go back and read the articles about the crime, you will see that the church owned "all" of the homes on Hugh Circle. Therefore, the church probably owned the neighbor's home (if it was on that street) and it apparently did NOT have an alarm system which is why the neighbor was installing one.

Typically, homes do not come with alarm services. That is a monthly monitoring service that must be purchased by the tenant.

I wonder who all knew there was about to be an alarm system on the home. Had someone been wanting to do this and moved up their plans to get it done before it was alarmed? That's curious.

oceanblueeyes
08-04-2013, 08:34 AM
I read somewhere that they had just finished a children's program, or maybe it was vacation Bible school. That leads me to another thought in wondering if the house being in disarray was verified as related to crime. People working really hard at practically two jobs might leave straightening up behind until some days off. I'd never have made it as a preacher's wife.

I have been in many Preacher's homes over the years. I think because they really have an open door policy... where anyone in the congregation is welcome to come to the home at anytime.... they keep the homes quite neat. Its just one of the duties the Preacher's wife knows she must do being a Pastor's wife. One sad thing about it though a Preacher's wife would open the door if someone knocked on it thinking it may be one of the congregation when it may not have been.:(

So I think the disarray found in the home was very much out of the norm and that is why it was specifically commented on.

It sounds to me after they murdered her they went through the home looking for items of worth. LE knows so much more than we do. They may know by now if items are missing from the home. I am hoping that the suspect or suspects weren't wearing gloves and may have left fingerprints on the disarray they made in the home.

Home invasions are on the rise. Invasions like what happened to the Petit family and to the Hufsted family that had deadly results for those inside.:(

It took LE months to solve the Hufsted murders and Sara Walker's murder. And the motive for all three murders were home invasions/robberies.

IMO

ClemiFern
08-04-2013, 10:13 AM
I wonder who all knew there was about to be an alarm system on the home. Had someone been wanting to do this and moved up their plans to get it done before it was alarmed? That's curious.

To my knowledge there was NO alarm system on the Shahan home. That has not been reported. What posters have been referring to is the fact that a neighbor of the Shahans was having one installed a day or 2 after the murder because of the murder.

If you read through the past few pages of posts, some posts will make a lot more sense and everything won't start getting all misconstrued.

meanmaryjean
08-04-2013, 10:21 AM
I have been in many Preacher's homes over the years. I think because they really have an open door policy... where anyone in the congregation is welcome to come to the home at anytime.... they keep the homes quite neat. Its just one of the duties the Preacher's wife knows she must do being a Pastor's wife. One sad thing about it though a Preacher's wife would open the door if someone knocked on it thinking it may be one of the congregation when it may not have been.:(

So I think the disarray found in the home was very much out of the norm and that is why it was specifically commented on.

It sounds to me after they murdered her they went through the home looking for items of worth. LE knows so much more than we do. They may know by now if items are missing from the home. I am hoping that the suspect or suspects weren't wearing gloves and may have left fingerprints on the disarray they made in the home.

Home invasions are on the rise. Invasions like what happened to the Petit family and to the Hufsted family that had deadly results for those inside.:(

It took LE months to solve the Hufsted murders and Sara Walker's murder. And the motive for all three murders were home invasions/robberies.

IMO

BBM: This is a common misconception. You find both ends of the 'cleanie to slob' scale in preacher's homes, just like in accountants, teachers and nurse's homes. I am fairly neat- a preacher's wife friend of mine nearly had CPS called on her for the level of filth and trash in their (parsonage) home. There is no magic clean gene we get blessed with when we marry into the ministry.
And from the sounds of it- his job was not primarily ministry- he was also the 'facilities' guy - aka custodian/ landscaping/ maintenance person.

ATasteOfHoney
08-04-2013, 10:26 AM
Due to the actual location of the home, I wonder if that led to it being more likely for an attacker/intruder?

The back of the house is an easy walk thru from the parking lot. It has a highway very close by. It is a corner lot.

Landscapers or lawn care guys would find this an easy target via the parking lot under the "protection" of a small patch of trees backing up to the house if they were "opportunists". They may even know the Pastor was out of town.

Were there new maintenance workers for the church recently?

SCHMAE
08-04-2013, 10:54 AM
To my knowledge there was NO alarm system on the Shahan home. That has not been reported. What posters have been referring to is the fact that a neighbor of the Shahans was having one installed a day or 2 after the murder because of the murder.

If you read through the past few pages of posts, some posts will make a lot more sense and everything won't start getting all misconstrued.

Wow, a little too much scroll and roll in my roll . sorry about that

ClemiFern
08-04-2013, 11:13 AM
Wow, a little too much scroll and roll in my roll . sorry about that

No problem :) I was going to delete my comment because I hate snippy comments on boards and I am not usually one to be that way. I apologize if it seemed as such this morning. Guess I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

I don't want to see facts getting misconstrued and I, especially, don't want to perpetuate the misconstrued information so I guess that's why I replied as I did. Hope you'll overlook my "moment." :blushing:

On another note, I sure hope one of the local news outlets reports something this week. We may have to wait weeks before the Homewood Police Dept. releases anything. It's really odd how the news outlets here and the local paper has not seemed to press for more information. It's almost as if they're in some type of agreement with LE. Hmmmm...I wonder...

SCHMAE
08-04-2013, 11:23 AM
No problem :) I was going to delete my comment because I hate snippy comments on boards and I am not usually one to be that way. I apologize if it seemed as such this morning. Guess I woke up on the wrong side of the bed today.

I don't want to see facts getting misconstrued and I, especially, don't want to perpetuate the misconstrued information so I guess that's why I replied as I did. Hope you'll overlook my "moment." :blushing:

On another note, I sure hope one of the local news outlets reports something this week. We may have to wait weeks before the Homewood Police Dept. releases anything. It's really odd how the news outlets here and the local paper has not seemed to press for more information. It's almost as if they're in some type of agreement with LE. Hmmmm...I wonder...

I went back and read word for word very slowly the post about the alarm and realized my ERROR. I for some reason, ( immablameitontoomuchcoffee) I thought that all the homes would be getting alarms on that block that were owned by the church. There is nothing written to indicate that, it's just the thought I had. Like an owner of apartments would give them all new doorknobs one year, IDK! So you were right and I was wrong and thanks for cleaning it up ;)

oceanblueeyes
08-04-2013, 11:34 AM
BBM: This is a common misconception. You find both ends of the 'cleanie to slob' scale in preacher's homes, just like in accountants, teachers and nurse's homes. I am fairly neat- a preacher's wife friend of mine nearly had CPS called on her for the level of filth and trash in their (parsonage) home. There is no magic clean gene we get blessed with when we marry into the ministry.
And from the sounds of it- his job was not primarily ministry- he was also the 'facilities' guy - aka custodian/ landscaping/ maintenance person.

That may be true. I have never been to one of those homes.

However; it doesn't mean this Preacher's wife was a lousy housekeeper does it? Is there a poster posting here who is from there that has actually been inside their parsonage?

I still think 'disarray' was mentioned for a reason because it was felt to be out of the norm for the residence when she was discovered.

JMO though

Cherry
08-04-2013, 11:34 AM
Does anyone know who was on the homeowners committee for this block of "housing owned by the church" ? *just another thing I find extremely odd in this case I might add*

meanmaryjean
08-04-2013, 12:59 PM
Does anyone know who was on the homeowners committee for this block of "housing owned by the church" ? *just another thing I find extremely odd in this case I might add*

I would think there is NOT a 'homeowners' committee' as a previous poster stated they are all rentals.

MissJ
08-04-2013, 02:16 PM
I used to live in Chattanooga, TN a southern city with a high crime rate and lots of home invasions. Don't know why but it was a very high rate of home invasions. Unfortunately the mother of one of my friends was on the receiving end and she did not have an upscale home. She was beaten nearly to death and she never had a chance to fight back, so she was no threat to them. What did they get? A small TV and a few dollars. Home invasions are on the rise. JMO.

waitin'4thewrld2chg
08-04-2013, 03:26 PM
If this were a home invasion robbery and the murder was done to eliminate the witness, I would wonder if the murder itself might not have been accomplished as quickly and 'efficiently' as possible. This murder is described as brutal, which could mean, sad as it would be, that a knife and a little time were involved.

I know it is too simplistic to equate brutality with passion/rage and with the perpetrator being familiar with the victim. This could have been an opportunistic hit on a stranger's home, and the murderer might have been amped up enough on drugs (or not) to have become exceedingly violent. Very possibly home invasion murders commonly cover the gamut in terms of method.

However, I wonder if the disarray found could have indicated a struggle (maybe a chair overturned, papers pushed off a table, etc.) rather than a robbery. Mrs. Shahan's body was found on a couch but she may not have been on the couch during the entire horrific event.

mom23boys
08-04-2013, 03:35 PM
That may be true. I have never been to one of those homes.

However; it doesn't mean this Preacher's wife was a lousy housekeeper does it? Is there a poster posting here who is from there that has actually been inside their parsonage?

I still think 'disarray' was mentioned for a reason because it was felt to be out of the norm for the residence when she was discovered.

JMO though

I agree with this. I feel like 'disarray' was mentioned for a reason and probably means more than dishes in the sink, laundry on the couch and dust on the bookshelves. I feel like it was indicative of either a struggle, a robbery (or even staged to look like a robbery) or both. JMO

BrianInBirmingham
08-04-2013, 08:58 PM
I agree with this. I feel like 'disarray' was mentioned for a reason and probably means more than dishes in the sink, laundry on the couch and dust on the bookshelves. I feel like it was indicative of either a struggle, a robbery (or even staged to look like a robbery) or both. JMO

... Or rage.

txsvicki
08-04-2013, 09:17 PM
Will police give a statement about cause of death soon or remain quiet? I guess we know from other cases that it can take awhile for toxicology reports. Maybe, to me, the word disarray means things lying around or made to look like someone was looking for something. Home invasion, to me, means door busted in quickly and things broken and turned over.

SapphireSteel
08-04-2013, 09:19 PM
The "disarray" ties in with the "obvious" murder LE referred to.

What I take that to mean possibly, is that the rest of the house was just like mine or better :), but one room was clearly messed up.

The "obvious" murder to me is a gun shot or a stabbing or something really gruesome and bloody with the weapon gone.

I don't know why I think that, mainly because you can accidentally shoot yourself or stab yourself in a million crazy ways, but there would be a weapon.

So, an obvious crime scene.

What intrigues me is - why did they call LE to check?

If this church and the Hobby Lobby and the housing are affiliated, wouldn't it be easier to call a neighbour/congregation member?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick regarding HL?

SapphireSteel
08-04-2013, 09:23 PM
Just revisiting -

Police have not divulged how Shahan died but said it was clear she had been murdered

No suspects have been identified and police said they didn't know whether the slaying was a 'random burglary gone bad' or something more sinister


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2378131/Karen-Louise-Shahan-murdered-Alabama-pastors-wife-member-church-choir-brutally-murdered-couch-family-home.html#ixzz2b3NCcapy
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


I personally don't think they would have referred to "something more sinister" unless they actually felt it was more sinister than a simple burglary.

If you know what I mean.

txsvicki
08-04-2013, 09:57 PM
I haven't shopped at Hobby Lobby in a long time but after reading about them realize they really did not use bar codes for marking merchandise. I have no idea if they ever updated or if some nutty thief might think a manager had store keys and access to money.

al66pine
08-05-2013, 01:23 AM
I haven't shopped at Hobby Lobby in a long time but after reading about them realize they really did not use bar codes for marking merchandise. I have no idea if they ever updated or if some nutty thief might think a manager had store keys and access to money.

BBM.

Your post sent me on a google journey.
Interesting reading about H/L.
:seeya:

ClemiFern
08-05-2013, 09:08 AM
since Karen Shahan was found. I really thought there would have been some news by now :(

AmyinTheHam
08-05-2013, 04:15 PM
There is a new article in the local news. Interesting that it says an interum pastor quoted a detective. I am posting the link here. I hope that is ok. I don't normally post links...

http://blog.al.com/spotnews/2013/08/homewood_police_on_murder_of_p.html#incart_river_d efault

BhamAdGal
08-05-2013, 05:36 PM
RUMORS ARE FLYING! If I convey them here you're going to modsnip me. :-) We are all quite certain what happened and for that reason, no, LE is not asking the public for help.

Well, if you are "quite certain" about what happened, then we will just have to wait. I hope it's not long. I work next door practically and have been looking over my shoulder in the parking deck.
That poor woman.

oceanblueeyes
08-05-2013, 06:55 PM
If this were a home invasion robbery and the murder was done to eliminate the witness, I would wonder if the murder itself might not have been accomplished as quickly and 'efficiently' as possible. This murder is described as brutal, which could mean, sad as it would be, that a knife and a little time were involved.

I know it is too simplistic to equate brutality with passion/rage and with the perpetrator being familiar with the victim. This could have been an opportunistic hit on a stranger's home, and the murderer might have been amped up enough on drugs (or not) to have become exceedingly violent. Very possibly home invasion murders commonly cover the gamut in terms of method.

However, I wonder if the disarray found could have indicated a struggle (maybe a chair overturned, papers pushed off a table, etc.) rather than a robbery. Mrs. Shahan's body was found on a couch but she may not have been on the couch during the entire horrific event.

When we use to hear about overkills we immediately thought the perpetrator had to be known to the victim but if we have read any cases in recent years we realize that overkills now are done quite often to perfectly innocent people by strangers.

Our society seems to be more angry than ever before in general and if the victim is at the mercy of an angry perpetrator often times they die in overkill ways even though they did not know the home invaders.
Some of them have been grossly bludgeoned leaving a blood bath in the home. Often in the midst of home invasions rape can also happen before the suspect silences the victim from talking and before leaving the dwelling.

I just read a horrible sadistic case of a home invasion a couple of months back. I believe it was 3-4 suspects broke into a home. They sadistically raped the woman over and over again for many hours, then they tortured the 3 men who were in the home. They had electric drills and drilled into the ankles and knees of the men and they used other tools to inflict unbelievable pain. It was like some horror movie. They kept demanding money when they all told them they didn't have any money so they tortured them all for hours just for the hell of it. These victims lived......so that story ended without death but it will have everlasting physical and emotional affects on these victims for the rest of their lives.

Then there was Sara Walker, a beautiful woman, who was bludgeoned unmercifully and repeatedly stabbed all because the ex- felon wanted money. He wasn't even from that state. He just happened to go down that street and picked that home. Crime of opportunity like most crimes are.

And the list goes on and on where heinous overkills were done to perfect strangers. Just ask Dr. Petit what strangers can do to a family they didn't even know.:(

I suspect this woman was the victim of a home invasion. They may or may not have known she was there and once she saw them they decided to kill her so she couldn't ID them. They also may have cased her home out beforehand and knew her husband was not at home at the time. It is not out of the realm of possibilities either she was sexually assaulted before the murder.

I pray this case is solved.

It can take several weeks to get lab results back from the lab and with the economy and cutbacks being what it is now it may take even longer.

IMO

LambChop
08-05-2013, 08:19 PM
Do not sleuth families.

BrianInBirmingham
08-05-2013, 08:47 PM
Well, if you are "quite certain" about what happened, then we will just have to wait. I hope it's not long. I work next door practically and have been looking over my shoulder in the parking deck.
That poor woman.

Maybe I was feeling a little cocky last week. :-) It's all opinion... I feel for this family and want justice to be done. Based on the statements of Homewood police department and mayor, you have no reason to be concerned... But also, "no one has been ruled out as a suspect". <modsnip> Hopefully, an arrest wil be made soon.