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mere
04-14-2005, 04:19 PM
Does anyone know any details about Gerald Stano? Gerald Stano confessed to murdering 41 girls in the 1970's through the early 80's. He was executed in 1998 for the murder of a 17 year old hitchhiker. Many of his victims are still unknown.
He admitted to killing teenagers, hitchhikers, and prostitutes in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and Florida. I believe he lived in all three states during his life. I was wondering what areas of each state he was connected to and what time frames.

lady-eowyn
04-14-2005, 04:38 PM
Ah yes...I remember Stano well...he has one of those infamous names. He was convicted in Volusia County...Daytona Beach area. I am not sure what other areas he was connected with but you can read about his crimes at Crime Library

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/gerald_stano/11.html?sect=2

smile22
04-16-2005, 07:25 AM
does anyone know if he pryed on children. and if he did what states was he linked to? was he ever in the ct area. what struck me about this thread was the time he did the killings and such. one of the cases that im really trying to solve is the janice pockett case and anything that would link someone to the area and time helps a little. or maybe even alot or might not help at all. but anything is worth a shot

mysteriew
09-10-2005, 06:34 PM
Long before he downed his farewell steak dinner and went to the Florida electric chair in 1998, serial killer Gerald Stano confessed to murdering three women and dumping their bodies in rural Pasco County in the 1970s.

But did Stano - blamed for strangling, stabbing and shooting 41 women across three states - actually kill Diana Valleck, Gail Foster and Emily Grieve?

Homicide detectives have their doubts and are reopening the cases with the help of a team of 21 criminology students at Saint Leo University.

Combining the resources of the Sheriff's Office and the university was the idea of Barry and Kimberley Glover, professors of criminal justice.

The husband-and-wife team figured the students, using modern crime-solving techniques such as DNA analysis, could help heat up investigations that have long gone cold.

The Glovers will divide their weekend class into three groups, one for each victim. A Pasco deputy will advise each group and give members unprecedented access to evidence pulled from storage.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/10/Pasco/College_students_to_r.shtml

concernedperson
09-10-2005, 06:36 PM
This can give some degree of peace to the relatives of the missing and murdered. Just to know that someone can explain a modicum will go a long way. Hooray, for people who keep trying and never forget the ones that are lost and the families that loved them.

Richard
09-11-2005, 08:07 AM
There was a book titled "Blind Fury" written by Anna Flowers in 1993, which detailed the story of Gerald Eugene Stano. Stano confessed to the murders of 42 women, 33 of whom had been identified by name. Most, if not all, of his murders were committed in Florida. Gerald Stano lived in Pennsylvania and Florida at various times.

Stano had no relationship with any of his victims before their murders. He often did not live near the victim or murder scene. None of the victims were related in any way. All were female.

No one knows exactly how or why Stano chose his victims. Most got into his car (a green Plymouth Duster) willingly. All but two were alone when he picked them up. The majority were picked up at night. Almost half of them were picked up with the intended purpose of obtaining sex, the rest either had car trouble or were hitchhiking. Over ninety percent of Stano's victims wore blue.

Gerald Stano committed his abductions and murders between 1973 and 1980. He was captured by police on 25 March 1980 when an intended victim, Donna Hensley, escaped and informed police. From 1981 thru 1982, Stano made his confessions and led investigators to some graves and crime scenes. In 1983 he was convicted on nine counts of first degree murder and sentenced to death in Florida's electric chair. After 15 years of appeals at taxpayer expense, he was finally executed.

Here is a list of 22 of those women and girls and their ages identified in the book:
Ann Arceneaux, 17
Janine Marie Ligotino, 19
Barbara Bauer, 17
Cathy Lee Scharf, 17
Nancy Heard, 24
Diana Lynn Valleck, 18
Susan Basile, 12
Linda Ann Hamilton, 16
Susan Bickrest, 24
Bonnie Hughes, 34
Ramona Neal, 18
Emily Branch, 21
Joan Gail Foster, 18
Molly Newell, 20
Emily Grieve, 38
Phoebe Winston, 23
Mary Kathleen Muldoon, 23
Sandra DuBose, 34
Christine Goodson, 17
Dorothy Williams, 17
Mary Carol Maher, 20
Toni Van Haddocks, 26

mysteriew
09-11-2005, 09:45 AM
Richard, thank you for the background on the story.
One thing that is not clear in the article I posted, is why LE is now questioning whether Stano killed Grieve, Foster, and Valleck. Do you have any idea why they are now questioning it?
I know that some serial killers will sometimes take "credit" for murders they did not commit. But LE seems to have strong questions about whether he actually killed these three.

Richard
09-14-2005, 01:07 AM
Richard, thank you for the background on the story.
One thing that is not clear in the article I posted, is why LE is now questioning whether Stano killed Grieve, Foster, and Valleck. Do you have any idea why they are now questioning it?
I know that some serial killers will sometimes take "credit" for murders they did not commit. But LE seems to have strong questions about whether he actually killed these three.
I do not have much information on the murder of Dianna Lynn Valleck (18), who was murdered in Tampa, Florida in 1975. Neither do I have much information on Emily Grieve (38) and Joan Gail Foster (18), who were both murdered in Pasco County, Florida in 1977.

The book "Blind Fury" is pretty good at detailing the crimes for which Stano was convicted, because those details were brought out in public trials and are part of the public record. Ms. Flowers used the trial records extensively in researching her book. She also drew heavily on the assistance of Detective Paul Crow and of the Volusia and Brevard County Sheriff's Department for information about the investigation, arrest, and interrogation of Stano.

As the book points out, Stano's confessions took place at widely separated times and over numerous interrogations. They also involved crimes committed in many different jurisdictions.

Stano was initially charged with three counts of first degree murder after confessing to six murders - in exchange for life in prison. After entering prison, he felt that he could obtain a higher standing in the pen if he continued with his confessions. He did so without any grants of immunity or promises of life in prison. He was subsequently tried on several more counts of first degree murder, over several years.

By January 15, 1984, Stano entered Death Row with three death sentences and eight life terms from murder convictions in five different Florida counties for the deaths of fourteen women - although he had confessed to murdering many more.

Stano was never charged with the murders of Valleck, Grieve, or Foster. I do not know specifically why, but the book mentions in general many conflicts between jurisdictions, sometimes lack of bodies, sometimes improper police procedures, etc.

The answers as to why these cases are being reconsidered may lie in the police files.

Richard
09-14-2005, 10:08 AM
does anyone know if he pryed on children. and if he did what states was he linked to? was he ever in the ct area. what struck me about this thread was the time he did the killings and such. one of the cases that im really trying to solve is the janice pockett case and anything that would link someone to the area and time helps a little. or maybe even alot or might not help at all. but anything is worth a shot
Stano's confessions only include the states of Florida, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey. His known murder spree went from 1973 to 1980. His Florida victims were spread over a very large area - about a third of the state. So, yes, he did do a lot of traveling.

Perhaps by comparing the cases of other missing persons with his known travels and dates, one might be able to compare. There was a big problem, however, even with cases that Stano confessed to. Many victims bodies were hard to find, and many have still not been found.

Stano murdered 12 Year-old Susan Basile in June 1975 at Port Orange, Florida. He confessed to that murder on 1 October 1982, late in his confession series. He did not want it known that he had killed a child, and was reluctant to give information on it. Susan's body has never been found.

He also confessed to murdering 13-year-old Gail Joiner, but later retracted that confession. If he was lying about this murder, it is quite possible that he was lying about other murders, or refusing to confess about others that he had committed.

Stano was trying to "move up" in the prison hierarchy, and may have wanted to eclipse Ted Bundy who was also in the same prison and on Death Row. But Stano knew that child killers and rapists are despised and ostracized in prison. So he was being careful in how he went about his confessions.

Although, Stano could give interrogators graphic details about his crimes, he was often off by several years when trying to establish the dates of those crimes.

shadowangel
09-14-2005, 11:03 AM
Quoting Richard, He also confessed to murdering 13-year-old Gail Joiner, but later retracted that confession. If he was lying about this murder, it is quite possible that he was lying about other murders, or refusing to confess about others that he had committed.


This adds some info to a case mentioned in another thread. Shadow205 had found a brief mention about Gail, but none of us could find any other info. I spoke to a Hillsborough deputy who told me they had a confession, but Gail's body had never been located.

Richard
09-14-2005, 01:48 PM
Quoting Richard, He also confessed to murdering 13-year-old Gail Joiner, but later retracted that confession. If he was lying about this murder, it is quite possible that he was lying about other murders, or refusing to confess about others that he had committed.


This adds some info to a case mentioned in another thread. Shadow205 had found a brief mention about Gail, but none of us could find any other info. I spoke to a Hillsborough deputy who told me they had a confession, but Gail's body had never been located.



Unfortunately, Gail Joiner is only mentioned briefly in the book "Blind Fury". No specifics about her from Stano's confession are mentioned. I wonder if Stano, on the eve of his execution, might have revealed more information to investigators.

Also, Stano was making "confessions" to many different investigators and to fellow convicts. It is possible that somewhere, more information about her is available - if in fact Stano killed her.

Richard
02-05-2006, 01:49 AM
I am bumping this up from the vault because of recent discussion/interest in Gerald Stano on another thread about Gail Joiner.

Hollow
02-07-2006, 02:01 AM
Gerald Stano had also signed confessions to the murders of Elizabeth Perry and Susan Davis who were found stabbed to death in New Jersey in 1969, but the police there don't believe he did it, because he was unable to provide details of the murders. The Perry and Davis families believe Bundy killed Susan and Elizabeth.

Did anyone mention that Stano is a " neat freak "? Investigators have said when they would interrogate him he would fidget around , arranging and cleaning their desks.

Hollow
02-07-2006, 02:43 AM
Daily Herald
Tuesday October 25th 1977
Chicago Ill

DADE CITY , FLA (UPI)__Nine women have been killed in unsolved slayings in just over six months in the Tampa Bay area and police said Monday the cases have very many similarities.
The latest victim--whose body was found in a rural area of Pasco County Friday-- was identified as Emily Eileen Grieve, 38, of Fort Lauderdale. She was shot in the head with a .22 caliber weapon and her body was clad only in a bra and a print blouse pulled up around her neck.
The body discovered by a father and son who were hunting, was hidden behind a dune like piles of fill dirt about 500 yards from where the body of another woman was found in December 1973.
The 1973 murder remains unsolved, as well as similar slayings in 1975 and 1976 in which one body was found in rural Pasco County and the other in Hillsborough County.
Three of the nine women killed this year were shot to death with a .22 caliber weapon, one was killed with a .38 caliber weapon, three were strangled and one burned to death in a motel room fire which police said was started deliberately.
The cause of death of the ninth victim has not yet been determined, and there is strong feeling among investigators her death is not connected with the others.
At least five of the women are believed to have been either killed in Tampa and dumped in rural Pasco County or taken to the remote areas after being picked up in Tampa.
In addition, three others were found in rural Hillsborough and Pinellas Counties.
Mrs. Grieve had been in Tampa three weeks and was reported missing by her sister Oct. 10. She was last seen at a bus stop.
At least six of the other victims were known to frequent bars and to hitchhike for transportation. Some were go-go dancers and some had prostitution records, of the three murders prior to this year, one was a prostitute and the other two were topless dancers.
Mrs. Grieve had just been hired as a maid at a north Tampa motel and was believed to have been headed for work when she disappeared. One of the earlier victims had stayed at the same motel the day she disappeared, stopping there after her car had broken down.

Hollow
02-07-2006, 03:11 AM
You know, it just occurred to me as I was about to retire for the night, that Stano was a suspect in a woman named Mary Carol Maher's death in Datona Beach. She was found stabbed to death in 1980. Her clothes were piled neatly beside her at the scene. In my research of the Elizabeth Perry, Susan Davis murders, the same was true. Maybe he did do it.

Hollow
02-07-2006, 03:44 AM
Philadelphia Inquirer 1982

....It was the non-fatal stabbing of a Daytona Beach prostitute in March 1980 that ended what Florida police now suspect was an eleven year killing spree that began when Stano was a sophomore in high school. The prostitute Donna Hensley, had seen Stano before and identified him from a police photograph. He was arrested soon afterward and charged with assault.
Crow, meanwhile had been investigating the killing two months earlier of Mary Carol Maher, 20. a former area high school swimming star who was found stabbed to death in a dump near the Daytona Beach Airport. She had last been seen at a hotel four doors away from the building where Ms. Hensley was stabbed.
Ms. Mahers body, though stabbed repeatedly was found neatly laid out, her clothes tucked in, her arms folded across her chest and pine branches carefully placed on top of her. Crow said he used those facts to develop a profile of the killer.
Because of the similarity between the wounds of the dead woman and those recieved by the prostitute, Crow called the jailed Stano into his office.....eventually he confessed to killing her.....

Later in a six hour session, Crow mentioned to Stano another slaying victim, a black prostitute named Toni Van Haddocks, who had been stabbed and found in a dump area. Stano denied knowing her, saying he never patronized black prostitutes, but a check with several black prostitutes proved otherwise, Crow said. Stano had been a frquent customer. When he confronted Stano with that information, Crow recounted, Stano said he gave the woman a ride. He remembered that she had her arm in a cast. Later after questioning, he confessed to killing her, Crow said........

Richard
02-07-2006, 11:41 AM
...Later in a six hour session, Crow mentioned to Stano another slaying victim, a black prostitute named Toni Van Haddocks, who had been stabbed and found in a dump area. Stano denied knowing her, saying he never patronized black prostitutes, but a check with several black prostitutes proved otherwise, Crow said. Stano had been a frquent customer. When he confronted Stano with that information, Crow recounted, Stano said he gave the woman a ride. He remembered that she had her arm in a cast. Later after questioning, he confessed to killing her, Crow said........
This is typical of Stano's warped way of thinking. Here he had already confessed to some very gruesome and heinous murders, yet he was still worried about what someone might think about him. He might kill a lot of people, but at least he doesn't socialize with black women... well he did - once - but he doesn't want the world to know about it.

Stano was offered immunity from the Death Penalty in his first trial if he would confess to all of the murders that he had committed (in Florida). He confessed to several, gave explicit details, and then later pled guilty to them. Once in prison, he felt used, unappreciated, and gilted. The police, who had proven to be his best friends during interrogation no longer called on him, they didn't write. And prison was such a horrible place. He saw that Ted Bundy and others on Death Row enjoyed a certain amount of status and respect among the prisoners. They even had their own private rooms. Stano started bragging and confessing to others in prison about his exploits with women.

Without benefit of any plea deals, he started confessing to more murders. It is possible that Stano many have included other murders that he had heard of, and it is also possible that he omitted murders that he thought might make him "look bad", like murders of children and black women.

I don't know how typical this sort of thinking and behavior is with regard to other confessed killers, but I do recall Ted Bundy "with holding" information in his last interviews on the eve of his execution for some stated reason or another. So many will only "confess" to what can be proven, and remain quiet about everything else. Or they might confess to abusing over a hundred children, but - Oh, no they never killed anyone.

Coincidence always plays a major part in solving any crime. These maggots are all accomplished Liars. Getting them to tell the truth during a confession is the exception rather than the rule. They tell you what they want you to hear - or what they think you want to hear. Any actual truth is coincidental.

So, it is possible that Stano did actually abduct and kill Gail Joiner, but didn't want his "friends" to know about it.

Hollow
02-07-2006, 01:31 PM
I don't think Gerald Stano was living in Florida at the time Gail Joiner disappeared, he had several computer jobs in PA in 1972-73 which he was constantly getting fired from for absenteism. His grandmother lived in Daytona Beach in 1972 though, and his mother had moved down there to care for her. I've read that Stano had many vehicles due to his bad temper, he'd crash them out of rage and his parents would promptly buy him a new car, I wonder if he owned any white vehicles in 1972 . Also I think it's significant that the other little girl he's suspected of killing, Susan Basile, 12, has also never been found just like Gail Joiner. He will not talk about this killing but did sign a confession that he did it.

Richard
02-07-2006, 05:53 PM
I don't think Gerald Stano was living in Florida at the time Gail Joiner disappeared, he had several computer jobs in PA in 1972-73 which he was constantly getting fired from for absenteism. His grandmother lived in Daytona Beach in 1972 though, and his mother had moved down there to care for her. I've read that Stano had many vehicles due to his bad temper, he'd crash them out of rage and his parents would promptly buy him a new car, I wonder if he owned any white vehicles in 1972 . Also I think it's significant that the other little girl he's suspected of killing, Susan Basile, 12, has also never been found just like Gail Joiner. He will not talk about this killing but did sign a confession that he did it.
There is another Florida girl who is still missing from that time frame. Debora Sue Lowe , age 13, disappeared on February 29, 1972 from Pompano Beach, Broward County, Florida. Some believe that she was abducted and murdered by another serial killer, as mentioned in the below link. It is possible that she is another Stano victim - but it is probably equally possible that Gail and Susan were victims of the other guy, and Stano was just trying to take credit for their murders. It would be interesting to know if he was ever "caught" trying to take credit for someone else's work.

Link:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1673dffl.html

Hollow
02-07-2006, 08:03 PM
There is another Florida girl who is still missing from that time frame. Debora Sue Lowe , age 13, disappeared on February 29, 1972 from Pompano Beach, Broward County, Florida. Some believe that she was abducted and murdered by another serial killer, as mentioned in the below link. It is possible that she is another Stano victim - but it is probably equally possible that Gail and Susan were victims of the other guy, and Stano was just trying to take credit for their murders. It would be interesting to know if he was ever "caught" trying to take credit for someone else's work.

Link:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1673dffl.html
The investigators that interviewed him specifically pointed out that he never took credit for any murders they dangled at him that THEY KNEW FOR SURE he didn't commit. So, it seems he may have been considered truthful in at least that respect.

Mullins
02-10-2006, 03:18 PM
If the one-time police officer was the abductor (I assume after all this time, he's been ruled out though) then he would probably have known some pretty good techniques at disposing/covering tracks. Does anyone know if he went out of the area during the time or shortly after she disappeared? Did he have access to any watercraft---could he have dumped her body at sea?

Did Debora ever talk of interacting with anyone (an older individual perhaps?) Did anyone notice any vehicles hanging around her that were not normally otherwise seen?

Mullins
02-10-2006, 03:20 PM
Seems like I read somewhere that he could not always put time frames with his murders, indicates a memory problem. Wonder if he just lost track? Sickening thought I know.


The investigators that interviewed him specifically pointed out that he never took credit for any murders they dangled at him that THEY KNEW FOR SURE he didn't commit. So, it seems he may have been considered truthful in at least that respect.

Shadow205
02-10-2006, 06:06 PM
There is another Florida girl who is still missing from that time frame. Debora Sue Lowe , age 13, disappeared on February 29, 1972 from Pompano Beach, Broward County, Florida. Some believe that she was abducted and murdered by another serial killer, as mentioned in the below link. It is possible that she is another Stano victim - but it is probably equally possible that Gail and Susan were victims of the other guy, and Stano was just trying to take credit for their murders. It would be interesting to know if he was ever "caught" trying to take credit for someone else's work.

Link:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1673dffl.html
Here is the link to the thread that I started awhile back on Gerard Schaefer who was the suspect in the abduction/murder of Debora Sue Lowe.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34741&highlight=Gerard+Schaefer

Shadow205
02-10-2006, 06:42 PM
Debbie disappeared in 1972: a child vanished from the streets of Pompano Beach. So many years later, the suffering persists.

Her father, John Lowe, died of a heart attack in 1976. Just 45. His family was sure his health had been undone by the unrelieved stress of his child's disappearance.

Mother Hattie survived until 1995. Never escaped the torment. Never escaped the need to find an answer. What happened that February day when Debora Sue Lowe went missing?

<snip>

BURDEN PASSED ON

The grief didn't end with her parent's death. Rather the burden passed to the next generation.

Eva Newsome, 34, was barely a toddler when Debbie disappeared, so young that her sister eludes memory. Yet she keeps looking. As if she inherited the need to know.

And her older brother, James Lowe, still searches the Internet and pursues leads and calls policemen.

more at the link http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/12260106.htm

I wonder if the brother has ever visited WS's?

concernedperson
02-10-2006, 07:18 PM
What this tells me is so many are suffering. It goes from generation to generation. These early crimes are more than likely attributed to the same individual.Serials go unnoticed for years for several reasons, one that the family knows odd behavior but won't reconcile to the fact. In other words....Denial! Then technology now is greater so the killers are more random. They probably move around and all it takes is county to county. Small jurisdictions don't have the resources to investigate unless someone makes a stink and then federal funds are requested.

So, make a stink each and every time you can.

coconutgreene
07-20-2011, 09:26 AM
I wonder if he every owned a baby blue duster with a navy/dark blue vinyl top in 1973 or 1974. mentioned in the book "I would find a girl walking" a dectective asked him how he how he could remember the car Barbara Bauer drove (sept 1973). Stano said before he purchased his green duster, he owned a baby blue duster with white vinyl; I am wondering if it may have been a navy/dark blue vinyl top. I looked up the dusters and it looks very similar to the car that approached me in the early morning of 1973 or 1974. I would have been 11 or 12 and the description is similar but the pictures I have found don't really match but because it shows him with long hair or older after his arrest. my neighborhood was just off US 1 in jacksonville, florida and very undevloped off of US1 aka Southside Blvd. I just read Kathy Kelly's book and the car is similar to what I saw that morning but according to her time line in the back of the book it does give his employment/residence in or around Florida in 1973 owning a baby blue duster. In the back of her book it says he purchased his green duster in PA in 1973 but not what month. This is the closest person I have found during that period of time that matches my description/baby blue american car. I do remember it was spotless. After just reading her book it also matches how he would go from calm to angry in a split second and that was exactly how the man who approached me...say good morning, I said Good Morning to I SAID GOOD MORNING...screaming it because I was not giving him any acknowledgment. This all took place less then a 1/4 of mile off of US1, which we know he traveled. Now according to others and gail joiner going missing in 1972...I wonder if traveled up to Jacksonville area.

Lera213
11-07-2011, 04:29 AM
Was in in Florida in 1973/74 because the green duster is a hit with me on who almost abducted me. The car was green, had some rust or primer on the vehicle. Can anyone tell me? I've been wondering all my life who this low life that almost captured me was.

Still_Seek_Answers
01-06-2012, 02:11 PM
Debbie disappeared in 1972: a child vanished from the streets of Pompano Beach. So many years later, the suffering persists.

Her father, John Lowe, died of a heart attack in 1976. Just 45. His family was sure his health had been undone by the unrelieved stress of his child's disappearance.

Mother Hattie survived until 1995. Never escaped the torment. Never escaped the need to find an answer. What happened that February day when Debora Sue Lowe went missing?

<snip>

BURDEN PASSED ON

The grief didn't end with her parent's death. Rather the burden passed to the next generation.

Eva Newsome, 34, was barely a toddler when Debbie disappeared, so young that her sister eludes memory. Yet she keeps looking. As if she inherited the need to know.

And her older brother, James Lowe, still searches the Internet and pursues leads and calls policemen.

more at the link http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/12260106.htm

I wonder if the brother has ever visited WS's?

I am not sure if my brother has any knowledge of WS. I found it yesterday and joined. I will see him later today and make sure he is aware of the site, and aware of all the posts about our sister. Thank You everyone for your caring, compassion, and understanding our pain.

Still_Seek_Answers
01-06-2012, 02:20 PM
Deborah Lowe is my sister. Trust me, we do make a stink over this case any and every chance we get. The Florida police are so tired of hearing from us...but....we don't care....cause we are REALLY tired of not knowing, not getting any answers, and we are so Fed up with being unable to locate our sister or her remains...we want to bring her home. This case was so mishandled from day 1.....it has been almost 40 years, and her entire police file at Pompano Beach police department consists of 4 pages. That alone says it all....she deserves so much more than 4 tiny pages.

Still_Seek_Answers
01-06-2012, 06:59 PM
If the one-time police officer was the abductor (I assume after all this time, he's been ruled out though) then he would probably have known some pretty good techniques at disposing/covering tracks. Does anyone know if he went out of the area during the time or shortly after she disappeared? Did he have access to any watercraft---could he have dumped her body at sea?

Did Debora ever talk of interacting with anyone (an older individual perhaps?) Did anyone notice any vehicles hanging around her that were not normally otherwise seen?

Debbie never mentioned being approached by anyone, however she had such a open and friendly personality that she would not have found it odd if someone had approached her.
Does anyone know approx. when Stanos began his killing? My sister Debbie vanished in 1972...but I can't seem to locate a timeline on Stanos.

Still_Seek_Answers
01-07-2012, 12:18 AM
It is getting very close to the 40th anniversary of my sisters disappearance. My Brother with the help of Dinora Perry of the missing children clearinghouse did a re-enactment which aired on channel 4. We still believe she was one of the victims of Gerard Schaefer.

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2011/09/19/missing-child-haunts-family-nearly-40-years-later/

bessie
01-07-2012, 06:53 AM
Serial Killers Timelines is a project of the psychology department at Radford University with a timeline and summary of information for each of various serial killers, including Stano. It doesn't mention the move to Florida, but I've read in at least two other sources that he relocated with his parents in late 1972.

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%20405/serial%20killers/Stano,%20Gerald.pdf

Still_Seek_Answers
01-07-2012, 07:39 PM
Serial Killers Timelines is a project of the psychology department at Radford University with a timeline and summary of information for each of various serial killers, including Stano. It doesn't mention the move to Florida, but I've read in at least two other sources that he relocated with his parents in late 1972.

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%20405/serial%20killers/Stano,%20Gerald.pdf

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%20405/serial%20killers/Stano,%20Gerald.pdf

1974 22-23 Barbara Ann Baur and another woman, never identified, are both found dead
Can anybody tell me where they were found? Does anybody have a link to the doe network that goes to this unidentified? I would like to look and see if they have any type of description of her. A case number, a jurisdiction or anything?

mysteriew
01-08-2012, 03:58 AM
http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%20405/serial%20killers/Stano,%20Gerald.pdf

1974 22-23 Barbara Ann Baur and another woman, never identified, are both found dead
Can anybody tell me where they were found? Does anybody have a link to the doe network that goes to this unidentified? I would like to look and see if they have any type of description of her. A case number, a jurisdiction or anything?

According to these links Baur was found in Starke, Florida , and the unidentified woman was found in Altamonte Springs, Florida.

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/gerald+stano

http://psychautopsy.weebly.com/2/post/2008/05/career-of-death1.html

That last link has pictures of some of the women thought to be his victims.

Still_Seek_Answers
01-09-2012, 12:42 AM
Identity Of `Madame X' Remains Mystery

April 27, 1998|By Rene Stutzman and Jill Duff-Hoppes of The Sentinel Staff
ALTAMONTE SPRINGS She was no glamour gal. She was overweight, didn't shave her legs and wore polyester pants with an elastic waistband.
Still, somebody loved her. A diamond wedding ring was found near her body, and pathologists think she had one or two children.
It has been 24 years since the body of ``Madame X,'' as she was dubbed by authorities, was discovered in dense brush behind the Interstate Mall at State Road 436 and Interstate 4.
Her killer, serial murderer Gerald Stano, died in Florida's electric chair last month for another slaying - one of 41 to which he confessed.


Unidentified Female, Located in Altamonte Springs, Florida, 1974 - Cold Case Investigations

How very very sad....one has to wonder why nobody looked for her....her husband,or her children. Her poor children have probably went all these years feeling deserted and unloved by the mother Stano murdered.

mysteriew
01-09-2012, 01:32 AM
Identity Of `Madame X' Remains Mystery

April 27, 1998|By Rene Stutzman and Jill Duff-Hoppes of The Sentinel Staff
ALTAMONTE SPRINGS She was no glamour gal. She was overweight, didn't shave her legs and wore polyester pants with an elastic waistband.
Still, somebody loved her. A diamond wedding ring was found near her body, and pathologists think she had one or two children.
It has been 24 years since the body of ``Madame X,'' as she was dubbed by authorities, was discovered in dense brush behind the Interstate Mall at State Road 436 and Interstate 4.
Her killer, serial murderer Gerald Stano, died in Florida's electric chair last month for another slaying - one of 41 to which he confessed.


Unidentified Female, Located in Altamonte Springs, Florida, 1974 - Cold Case Investigations (http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?t=11953)

How very very sad....one has to wonder why nobody looked for her....her husband,or her children. Her poor children have probably went all these years feeling deserted and unloved by the mother Stano murdered.

BBM

It is very possible that they have looked for her. But like with your case, for some reason her missing report and the remains never got connected. It happened quite a bit back then.

Still_Seek_Answers
01-09-2012, 11:29 AM
BBM

It is very possible that they have looked for her. But like with your case, for some reason her missing report and the remains never got connected. It happened quite a bit back then.

Yes, you are so right. All to often Jane/John Does of this time frame were buried as unidentified and no DNA was saved. We have been fighting for years to have these bodies exhumed, DNA samples taken, and then reburying them.We have made some progress, as about 7000 Jane/John Does from this time frame now have DNA profiles in the system. Yet each body is a huge battle, and getting the money shaken out of budgets is an exhausting task. It is an uphill battle, but we will keep climbing that hill until we get them all identified.
At this point we are long past the,one of them may be our sister position....we are at the everybody is somebodies child and all these families deserve answers......all the buried unknown deserve to go home.

Still_Seek_Answers
01-09-2012, 11:42 AM
BBM

It is very possible that they have looked for her. But like with your case, for some reason her missing report and the remains never got connected. It happened quite a bit back then.

Thank You for the link that lead me to her descriptive info. I will see to it that this info makes it into the hands of the missing person org. that we know work with in Florida. Possibly once a picture of her ring, and details of her clothing get to the proper places, then maybe...or rather hopefully Madam "X" can at last find her way home.....and her children will then know......she did not leave them.

Chrissiepoo
01-24-2012, 08:54 PM
My mother actually knew Gerry. One of her best friends was the former wife of his (adoptive) brother and Gerry would tag along when they would hang out. My mother describes him as being awkward and dorky. They were friendly towards each other but he never flirted with her in any way although she was very pretty. He was always respectful, not an obvious "woman-hater" or violent person.

Here's the kicker:
One night, he drove her home.
In the same car that he picked up his victims and transported their bodies.
She says the car smelled like death and thought this was because he liked to go fishing a lot and maybe spilled some bait or fishy water in the back seat.

My mother also said that besides hanging around his brother and his brother's friends he also had another friend who he associated with a lot. My mother cannot remember his name but she described him as creepy. Has there ever been mention of a friend of his? She thinks that there is a possibility he did not work alone and might have took credit for the murders his friend committed.

There is also a chance that he was "fed" unsolved cases during his interrogation and took credit for them to make himself sound more.... grandiose.... than he really was.

He loved attention... he just didn't go out of his way to get it, being the awkward loner he was.

I will ask her if she has any more interesting information on him.

Chrissiepoo
01-25-2012, 07:14 PM
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F2/883/900/350613/


Gerald Stano's death penalty appeal, which has some very interesting information in it. Much of it is about how he may or may not have been "fed" unsolved cases.

bessie
01-25-2012, 07:54 PM
Hi, Chrissiepoo. I'm aware of the controversy over Stano being considered a suspect in so many different murders. It seems to be a problem with many SK who lead LE on about crimes they might or might not have committed. I think you hit the nail on the head. Some of them are "awkard loners" who crave attention but can't find it in the conventional ways.

Your mother must have been really spooked when she found out the truth. It's another example of the way predators intermingle with the rest of society, and most of us never suspect what they're really capable of doing. Thank goodness your mom didn't become a victim.


:Welcome1:

Chrissiepoo
01-29-2012, 10:07 AM
It definitely spooked her but it shows that he was calculating instead of sporadic. He had the opportunity to kill but he didn't - apparently people saw them leave together so he would have had to account for where my mother was if something happened.

She still can't believe he did this. He was weird but not that weird.

I'm trying to drill her on what his creepy friend's name was. From what it sounds like he is definitely a person of interest in all of this.

coconutgreene
02-25-2012, 03:43 PM
Was in in Florida in 1973/74 because the green duster is a hit with me on who almost abducted me. The car was green, had some rust or primer on the vehicle. Can anyone tell me? I've been wondering all my life who this low life that almost captured me was.
I know how you feel. I too have been haunted by the man who pulled up beside me that foggy morning. I wonder how many other young girls had the same life altering experience? You and I were lucky that day or perhaps our gut feelings kicked in.

Thank you for posting. It seems to help me not feel so alone in my own quest. The police were really not interested. I guess it has been too long ago. I just can't help but think the descriptions we have couldn't help some of families of the missing girls from that time period. You would think they would at least try to help us help the families but I felt as if the police just did not want to take me seriously.

5 girls went missing in Jacksonville in the same time frame. One was found buried in a shallow grave not too far from the area where my incident took place. Another girl found deceased on the opposite side of town also lived and/or caught the bus in my neighborhood. I am just frustrated...I wish somebody would take the time to try and put my description of the car, man and put it together.

Thanks again!

coconutgreene
02-25-2012, 03:54 PM
My mother actually knew Gerry. One of her best friends was the former wife of his (adoptive) brother and Gerry would tag along when they would hang out. My mother describes him as being awkward and dorky. They were friendly towards each other but he never flirted with her in any way although she was very pretty. He was always respectful, not an obvious "woman-hater" or violent person.

Here's the kicker:
One night, he drove her home.
In the same car that he picked up his victims and transported their bodies.
She says the car smelled like death and thought this was because he liked to go fishing a lot and maybe spilled some bait or fishy water in the back seat.

My mother also said that besides hanging around his brother and his brother's friends he also had another friend who he associated with a lot. My mother cannot remember his name but she described him as creepy. Has there ever been mention of a friend of his? She thinks that there is a possibility he did not work alone and might have took credit for the murders his friend committed.

There is also a chance that he was "fed" unsolved cases during his interrogation and took credit for them to make himself sound more.... grandiose.... than he really was.

He loved attention... he just didn't go out of his way to get it, being the awkward loner he was.

I will ask her if she has any more interesting information on him.
I hope your Mother can remember the name of the other person. It could have been just what you said about two working together. I would like to know if your Mother ever remembered a baby blue duster or torino with a navy blue hard top. The car I saw the morning of my incident looked clean as if it was new. It was two door with no special strips. Maybe see if she recalls if he was from the local area of florida.

Thank you for posting...I am still trying to solve for myself who this man was.

coconutgreene
02-25-2012, 04:23 PM
Deborah Lowe is my sister. Trust me, we do make a stink over this case any and every chance we get. The Florida police are so tired of hearing from us...but....we don't care....cause we are REALLY tired of not knowing, not getting any answers, and we are so Fed up with being unable to locate our sister or her remains...we want to bring her home. This case was so mishandled from day 1.....it has been almost 40 years, and her entire police file at Pompano Beach police department consists of 4 pages. That alone says it all....she deserves so much more than 4 tiny pages.
I am so sorry for your family's loss.

I know you must be frustrated with the police and the efforts or lack of. I have tried several times to get somebody to listen to me about the man who approched me in Jacksonville. I have spoken to a retired detective who handled one of the deceased girls case in jacksonville. 5 went missing in the same time frame and one found about 3 miles from my house in a shallow grave and another girl lived off dean road about 3 miles in the other direction and another girl rebecca greene use to catch the bus in my neighborhood or may have actually lived in that neighborhood and we were all near the same age. All went missing as they were going to the majic market or store...just as I was doing that morning but I guess the police feel my incident has anything to do with the other cases.

I pray that your family finds the answers you are entitled to. God Bless!

I believe he was in Florida during that time. I believe he may had made several trips from up north to visit his adoptative mother in Ormond Beach prior to moving here. I believe he passed through Jacksonville, Florida on his many trips back and forth. I also think he spent a lot of time in his car because that was what he was most proud of. I think he cruised around a lot and if saw a opportunity...I think he would have acted on it.

Richard
03-28-2012, 08:09 PM
LINK to Gerald Stano information and chronology file:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22096&page=2

Does anyone know where/ when in Pennsylvania he lived and traveled?

mysteriew
03-28-2012, 11:48 PM
Serial Killers Timelines is a project of the psychology department at Radford University with a timeline and summary of information for each of various serial killers, including Stano. It doesn't mention the move to Florida, but I've read in at least two other sources that he relocated with his parents in late 1972.

http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%20405/serial%20killers/Stano,%20Gerald.pdf

This seems to be about the best timeline we have for him. Maybe follow the murders to find the dates/locations?


LINK to Gerald Stano information and chronology file:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22096&page=2

Does anyone know where/ when in Pennsylvania he lived and traveled?

Uhhh did you know your link links back to this thread?
LOL just thought I would point that out

Lera213
03-29-2012, 12:01 AM
I know how you feel. I too have been haunted by the man who pulled up beside me that foggy morning. I wonder how many other young girls had the same life altering experience? You and I were lucky that day or perhaps our gut feelings kicked in.

Thank you for posting. It seems to help me not feel so alone in my own quest. The police were really not interested. I guess it has been too long ago. I just can't help but think the descriptions we have couldn't help some of families of the missing girls from that time period. You would think they would at least try to help us help the families but I felt as if the police just did not want to take me seriously.

5 girls went missing in Jacksonville in the same time frame. One was found buried in a shallow grave not too far from the area where my incident took place. Another girl found deceased on the opposite side of town also lived and/or caught the bus in my neighborhood. I am just frustrated...I wish somebody would take the time to try and put my description of the car, man and put it together.

Thanks again!
I hear you loud and clear. That day I'll never forget and I just know if I was hypnotized or something I could give a detail description of him. I can now only state the size, hair texture, color and the car. I know I saw the license plate but cannot recall but I bet it could be brought out.

I told my mother, she didn't believe me, so no cops were ever called. This fact haunts me to this day for if this guy is a SK, how many woman could I have saved if it was reported and something done about it. The What If's I live with, but I will state a FACT that this guy had bad intentions.

My picture of me at the time fit some of the victim's looks too.

Richard
03-29-2012, 10:20 AM
This seems to be about the best timeline we have for him. Maybe follow the murders to find the dates/locations?

Uhhh did you know your link links back to this thread?
LOL just thought I would point that out

My search window must have jumped between the time I found the Stano Timeline and when I marked it to go into my post. I believe that the first link you reference is the same one I intended to include.

It is interesting that the FBI profilers could nail down the fact that he wet the bed in 1962, and yet cannot state with certainty where he was at most other times.

I was wondering when he was in Pennsylvania, because there are a number of unsolved disappearances and homicides of young girls there in the mid 1970's.

Richard
03-29-2012, 10:51 AM
Debora Sue Lowe Missing, 13, since February 29, 1972 from Pompano Beach, FL

Debora Sue Lowe
Missing since February 29, 1972 from Pompano Beach, Broward County, Florida
Classification: Lost, Injured, Missing

Vital Statistics

Date Of Birth: September 19, 1958
Age at Time of Disappearance: 13 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'6"; 125 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown long, straight hair; brown eyes.
Marks, Scars: A small scar on her left leg
Clothing: A yellow blouse, black pants with vertical rose stripes and a tan poncho.
AKA: Debbie
Dentals: A chipped front tooth; Crowded upper teeth.
DNA: Available in CODIS

Circumstances of Disappearance
Lowe was last seen walking to Rickards Middle School in Pompano Beach, FL. Her parents called the police when she failed to come home from school.

The family was new to South Florida. They had just moved down from West Virginia.

Gerald Schaefer, one of South Florida's most brutal serial killers has been named as a suspect. Schaefer, a onetime Martin County police deputy, had been linked to the deaths of 20 or more girls and young women between 1969 and 1972, including at least two other girls from Pompano Beach. His victims ranged in age from 9 to 25.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:

Broward County Sheriff's Office
954-493-8477

--
Pompano Beach Police Department
954-786-4200

Agency Case Number: 72-203684

NCMEC #: NCMC1009377

NCIC Number: M-653207855

Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case.

Source Information:

Florida Department of Law Enforcement
Florida Missing Children Information Clearinghouse
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
The Miami Herald
Broward County Sheriff's Office
Doe Network

mysteriew
03-29-2012, 01:36 PM
Deborah's brother sometimes posts here as Still Seeking Answers. He is aware of Stano but the family is pretty sure the one who took Deborah was Schaefer. Their father sometimes hung out with Schaefer so there was a connection there.

amber1
04-26-2012, 12:07 PM
I wonder if Stano has ever been looked at as the abductor of 17 year old Amy Billig from Coconut Grove, FL? She was last seen trying to get a ride to her dad's office on March 5, 1974. I have always felt like the motorcycle abduction theory is what people assumed happened, so other theories/suspects were discarded. I am reading I would find a girl walking, about gerald stano, and he has confessed that he killed over 40 women in the 70s and 80s, usually young girls who would be walking alone or hitch hiking, which Amy was. He would take them on a ride in his Plymouth Duster car, and drive with them for hrs before killing them, he used various methods because than cops would not connect the dots between victims as easy. He would dump the bodies in secluded areas and cover the with thicket bushes or branches. Not all of his victims were found, or even known, and being he did this all over FL, I wonder if Any was a victim too. Anyone know if he has ever been questioned in her disappearance? Or looked at as a suspect?
www.freewebs.com/findamybillig
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-F...05088089544267

amber1
04-27-2012, 12:01 PM
This book has piqued my interest in seeing if Gerald had any other victims, here are some possible ones due to vital stats and circumstances:
*Amy Billig: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Help-F...05088089544267
*Mary Michelle Sprague: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2080dffl.html
Angela Sigrid Ramsey: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/49dffl.html
Patricia Action: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1947dffl.html
**These two I feel most likely could have been Stano's victims, especially Mary Sprague since she worked late nights at a strip club in Dayton Becah, FL, which Stano would go looking for prostitutes/strippers late at night in Daytona. I also wondered about other missing women, like Kimberly Rae Doss, but there wasn't enough info to rule them in.
Any thoughts?

Chrissiepoo
05-23-2012, 11:36 AM
Hello all. Sorry I have not posted in this thread lately - life has a way of distracting you sometimes!


I hope your Mother can remember the name of the other person. It could have been just what you said about two working together. I would like to know if your Mother ever remembered a baby blue duster or torino with a navy blue hard top. The car I saw the morning of my incident looked clean as if it was new. It was two door with no special strips. Maybe see if she recalls if he was from the local area of florida.

Thank you for posting...I am still trying to solve for myself who this man was.

I have sent my mother your question so let's see what she says. Like me she has a very visual memory but things like names escape us so perhaps she might remember seeing the vehicle. The only other person that might remember the name of Gerald's friend is Gerald's brother or his brother's ex-wife but from my understanding both are unwilling to discuss the topic. It might be worth a shot for someone who doesn't take offense to being hung up on/screamed at to do a little digging and find a contact number for either one of them.

Chrissiepoo
05-23-2012, 03:37 PM
UPDATE:
She says, quote: "for the life of me I cant remember...I just know his buddy was wierd...nerd to the 4th power....they suspected him and interviewed him I think....Dont know what he drove....but he was from Daytona... He used to hang at the Tiki....." and that the friend in question was "Kinda fat, well chubby....not good looking, nerdy worse than Jerry, a hanger on kinda guy....Wracking my brains here that car sounds familiar....but I dont think I ever saw his car...."
Interesting, yes?

Chrissiepoo
05-25-2012, 11:53 PM
Was going through NAMUS and found this unidentified woman:
https://identifyus.org/en/cases/724

Fits his timeline and location. I sent this to an email address provided on the NAMUS contact page:


Hello Mr. Nance,

I am not sure if you are the proper contact for this email but the case manager does not have an email address provided on NAMUS so I figured I'd use yours so that you can forward this to the proper channels. Firstly, I am a "web sleuth" who researches cold cases/missing persons/unidentified remains. I was reading the details on this case and am wondering if there was any forensic evidence recovered from the body or the location where the body was found. If there was, has it been or could it be traced to Gerald Stano? The location and time frame fit with his activities in the area and I believe it is worth looking further into if there is forensic evidence to compare his DNA to.

I would appreciate a reply but I understand fully if I do not receive one.

Thank you.

Hopefully I will hear back!

dogperson
05-16-2014, 12:56 PM
Is there any indication Stano ever killed in GA? I noted that over 90% of his victims were wearing blue. My pet case is that of Carlene Sessions Tengelsen who disappeared in 1972 from a Georgia mall, wearing a man's blue dress shirt and blue jeans.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/tengelsen_carlene.html

amber1
05-20-2014, 06:45 PM
dogperson,

that is a very interesting observation. I will have to look over his book, "I would fin a girl walking" to see if he mentions anything particular about the color blue. Stano was obsessed with disco style, dance and music. Most of his killings occurred in the 1970s. I wonder if the color blue plays into that at all?

bessie
05-26-2014, 06:41 AM
Is there any indication Stano ever killed in GA? I noted that over 90% of his victims were wearing blue. My pet case is that of Carlene Sessions Tengelsen who disappeared in 1972 from a Georgia mall, wearing a man's blue dress shirt and blue jeans.
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/t/tengelsen_carlene.html
I think it's unlikely. In 1971-72, Stano was struggling to put his life together. He finished high school, took a computer tech course, had a girlfriend, and a few different jobs. Naturally, he succeeded at none of it, and by 1973 (according to him) he launched his killing career in Gainesville, FL. I don't recall that he had a color fetish.


http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%20405/serial%20killers/Stano,%20Gerald.pdf

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/gerald_stano/index.html

http://books.google.com/books?id=A6FQywvBORoC&lpg=PP1&pg=PT10#v=onepage&q&f=false

Still_Seek_Answers
05-27-2014, 04:24 AM
Deborah's brother sometimes posts here as Still Seeking Answers. He is aware of Stano but the family is pretty sure the one who took Deborah was Schaefer. Their father sometimes hung out with Schaefer so there was a connection there.

I am Debbie's sister. I was 9 when she disappeared. I remember well the day the police came to our home, then needed my Mom to accompany them to the police station. They wanted her to look at the items found in Schaefer's mothers house to see if any of them belonged to Deb.

Nobody ever told us about Stano or to the best of my knowledge investigated to see if there was any link to my sister. I do notice that many of his victims had the long dark hair, like Deb had. Other than that I see nothing to indicate my sister as his type. I did not read up on all of his victims, but he was not in the habit of picking up girls on the way to school.

The four girls listed all look to me like they could have been victims of his. In an interview about Schaefer my sister one stated that we are all sad he is deceased. He took with him to the grave answers we need. We can never search his eyes for signs of truth as to rather or not he killed Deb. He would have most certainly lied anyhow.

The same is true of Stano. He took secrets to his grave that could have granted closure to other families. Serial killers are such horrible liars, so unless he told someone where the bodies were, he would not have been believable either. Confess, recant...confess, recant.....Oh the horrible mind games they play. I would still however like to know about the unidentified woman found with victim Barbara Baur.

As much as I would love to have Deb home and buried with her family, it is almost a relief to know that neither one of them can any longer torture the families by playing their sick games. We still search every day. We check, check and recheck the information of every Jane Doe we can find from any state.

Someday we will bring Deb home. It may not be this day, or the next day.....but it will happen someday. All of us now have grown children. We make sure they know about the aunt they never got to meet. We make sure they know the importance of bringing her home. Three of us have given DNA and it is in CODIS, so that if she is not home by the time we have all left this earth.....they will still be able to ID her. Our children will be here, with full knowledge, to make sure she gets home.

I am also curious if Stano ever killed in other states.

dogperson
05-27-2014, 12:59 PM
I have gotten out my copy of "I Would Find A Girl Walking" but his killing career is generally believed to have started in 1973, and Carlene wasn't a hitchhiker which is what he seems to have preferred (although not all of his victims were). He really does seem obsessed with music, his clothing, his cars. The accounts of his confessions take a great deal of time with him describing what he had on and what his car looked like. He enjoys talking about the fact that he wore a class ring and would hit girls with the back of his hand while wearing it. Completely self-absorbed as if the main point of it all isn't the murdered girls. I guess maybe they had to let him ramble in order to get his cooperation.

I don't understand why serial killers are such liars either. When you are already on death row, why not tell the families where their girls are? Why not tell everything?

Still_Seek_Answers
05-27-2014, 10:33 PM
I have gotten out my copy of "I Would Find A Girl Walking" but his killing career is generally believed to have started in 1973, and Carlene wasn't a hitchhiker which is what he seems to have preferred (although not all of his victims were). He really does seem obsessed with music, his clothing, his cars. The accounts of his confessions take a great deal of time with him describing what he had on and what his car looked like. He enjoys talking about the fact that he wore a class ring and would hit girls with the back of his hand while wearing it. Completely self-absorbed as if the main point of it all isn't the murdered girls. I guess maybe they had to let him ramble in order to get his cooperation.

I don't understand why serial killers are such liars either. When you are already on death row, why not tell the families where their girls are? Why not tell everything?

They don't tell because they get off knowing that we are still out there suffering. They get a thrill every time they see a family begging for answers.

As far as I know Stano did not kill in Florida until 1973. The again, who knows? That was the first one they knew he did, but who knows if he killed anybody they did not know about.