Another Mother who stabbed her Kiddos

[dasgal]

Did you guys see this?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/29/children.stabbed.ap/index.html

[Tom'sGirl]

Holy crap, no I hadn't...........thanks for the link.

I'm new here and was clicking on all the links and I saw your post

[IrishMist]

Wonder if anything new will be found about the first child that died? Sounds like they'd better re-investigate, if they can. Probably too late to learn anything, though, huh?

I'm curious to hear what her story is...

Thanks for posting this, dasgal, I hadn't heard about it.

[mollymalone]

I saw that. It's awful. I did see where they said they would be investigating that first child's death.

[cami]

I saw that. It's awful. I did see where they said they would be investigating that first child's death.

I heard about this over the weekend. Over 200 times each!!!! Good Lord those poor children. I wonder if she killed that first baby. Why do these mothers do this? I just can't fathom why someone would kill their own children and so brutally. She must be very mentally ill.

[RobertStJames]

Did you guys see this?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/29/children.stabbed.ap/index.html

Ok, this is what a "killer mommy" really looks like:

Investigators believe she was at home Wednesday night when Christian and Gracie Vasilev were killed. The children's father and a friend who had been living with the family discovered the bloody scene when they arrived home that evening.


Note: she did it while her husband was not home.

[i]
The little girl and the children's mother were both upstairs. The girl was dead, and her mother had what appeared to be minor cuts on her hands
[i/]

Note: minor hand cuts, probably from the knife slipping. Not deep stab wounds on the right arm of a right-handed woman, not a deep slash on the neck, not severe bruises on the undersides of both arms.

And one of her other children died in mysterious circumstances in a fire several years ago, which points to a pattern that is totally absent for Darlie Routier.


RstJ

[cami]

Ok, this is what a "killer mommy" really looks like:

Investigators believe she was at home Wednesday night when Christian and Gracie Vasilev were killed. The children's father and a friend who had been living with the family discovered the bloody scene when they arrived home that evening.


Note: she did it while her husband was not home.

[i]
The little girl and the children's mother were both upstairs. The girl was dead, and her mother had what appeared to be minor cuts on her hands
[i/]

Note: minor hand cuts, probably from the knife slipping. Not deep stab wounds on the right arm of a right-handed woman, not a deep slash on the neck, not severe bruises on the undersides of both arms.

And one of her other children died in mysterious circumstances in a fire several years ago, which points to a pattern that is totally absent for Darlie Routier.


RstJ

Sorry but the doctors who treated Darlie disagree with you on the severity of her injuries. There was no "deep" stab wounds on Darlie at all. She has surface slashes not deep stab wounds. Since when can't a right handed person use their left hand to inflict a slash wound or even a stab wound on their right arm? Easily done.

8 Q. All right. About how long was this
9 wound?
10 A. It was about 10 centimeters
11 approximately.
12 Q. Now, did you get out and measure it
13 yourself with a ruler?
14 A. No, I didn't. I estimate the length
15 of wounds.
16 Q. And did you measure the depth of the
17 wound at all or was it an estimation?
18 A. Well, I usually don't measure the
19 depth. We don't think in those terms. I would call it a
20 superficial wound.
21 Q. Okay. And what do you mean by a
22 superficial wound?
23 A. I mean by a superficial wound that it
24 did not penetrate any of the deeper structures, you'd
25 call a deep wound would penetrate the muscles, the
1 vessels. It just penetrated basically the skin and the
2 subcutaneous tissue, which is what we refer to as the
3 fat, underlying the skin. And there's a muscle in the
4 subcutaneous tissue in that area of the neck called the
5 platysma, which it also penetrated. That was the extent
6 of the injury.
7 Q. So it cut through the skin, the fat
8 and then what y'all call the platysma?
9 A. Platysma, yes.
10 Q. Which is located in the --
11 A. In the subcutaneous fat.
12 Q. Which is the fat. Right?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. Did you see any other injuries
15 on her, and treat other injuries while she was being
16 operated on?
17 A. I didn't specifically -- the other
18 residents sewed up the wounds on her shoulder and her
19 arm, they were irrigating the wound.
20 Q. Where was the wound on her shoulder?
21 A. The wound on her shoulder overlied the
22 top of her humerus, the bone here. And it was also a
23 superficial wound, it was just closed with sutures.
24 Q. Okay. Just closed it with sutures?
25 A. Yes.

1 Q. And, was there another wound on her
2 right arm?
3 A. There was a wound on her right arm on
4 the -- what we call the dorsal aspect, about right here.
5 And it was approximately an inch long. It was also
6 superficial. It was down to the bone in that point. But
7 the bone at that point is very superficial in the arm.
8 And these wounds did not approach any dangerous
9 structures.
10 Q. Let me show you what's been marked as
11 State's Exhibit 28-B.
12
13 25 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: I'll caution you
1 to keep your voice up.
2 THE WITNESS: Okay.
3
4 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
5 Q. If you'll step back so all the jurors
6 can see.
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. Looking at State's Exhibit 28-B, do we
9 see the two wounds you treated on the neck and shoulder?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And if you would just point those out
12 to the jury.
13 A. This is the neck wound that we
14 explored right here. And this is the shoulder wound
15 which we closed primarily.
16 Q. Just cleaned it out and sewed it up?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Then 28-A, is this the wound here on
19 the right forearm?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Again, was that just cleaned and then
22 sewn up?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. You say it went to the bone?
25 A. Yes. On this part of the forearm
1 there's a -- the bone is not very far under the skin.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. And it went through the muscle, to the
4 bone, but there was no fracture. There was no fracture.
5 Q. So the bone is very close to the skin
6 here?
7 A. Relatively close, yes.
8 Q. So, we see another wound here, just
9 above that wound. Was that also present?
10 A. Yes, it was. That was simply a
11 superficial abrasion which we did nothing about.
12 Q. Okay. All right.
13
14 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Go ahead and have
15 a seat.
16



Are you disputing this testimony? If so, why? I'm just curious that's all. Are you a doctor?

Darlie is a first time offender. Where does it necessarily follow that you have to commit previous crimes in order to murder your own children. Did Susan Smith? I know you don't want to believe that Darlie is guilty but she is. The evidence all points to her, not Darin.

[Jeana (DP)]

Robert, there is no "text book" example of what is supposed to take place in the days/hours before a mother slaughters her children. Just because one woman did it a certain way, doesn't mean that all mothers must follow suit. This second mother gave no warning signs in the days/hours leading up to the murders. She snapped. It happens all too frequently.

[dasgal]

...and her mother had what appeared to be minor cuts on her hands-Robert

You mean just like Darlie? I don't see where you think the big difference is.

[RobertStJames]

...and her mother had what appeared to be minor cuts on her hands-Robert

You mean just like Darlie? I don't see where you think the big difference is.

Darlin had
a) minor cuts on her hands
b) two stab wounds, one into bone, on her right forearm
c) bruises on the underside of both arms
d) bruises around her wrists
e) a slash across her throat.

There's no comparison.


RstJ

[dasgal]

Darlin had
a) minor cuts on her hands
b) two stab wounds, one into bone, on her right forearm
c) bruises on the underside of both arms
d) bruises around her wrists
e) a slash across her throat.

There's no comparison.


RstJ
a. self inflicted
b. accidentally self inflicted
c. did not have when admitted to hospital
d. did not have when admitted to hospital
e. self inflicted

So, what is your point?

[Mary456]

Darlin had
a) minor cuts on her hands
b) two stab wounds, one into bone, on her right forearm
c) bruises on the underside of both arms
d) bruises around her wrists
e) a slash across her throat.

There's no comparison.


RstJ

I must ask...why do you keep insisting that the knife penetrated the bone in Darlie's arm when the doctors clearly said it didn't?

[Goody]

Darlin had
a) minor cuts on her hands
b) two stab wounds, one into bone, on her right forearm
c) bruises on the underside of both arms
d) bruises around her wrists
e) a slash across her throat.

There's no comparison.


RstJ
Note, the cut on Darlie's arm was only about an inch deep because that is as deep as it could go before hitting bone. It did not cut into the bone, the cut went TO the bone and stopped. In another post, you said it was three inches deep. Not so.

O, and only one stab wound on her right arm. There is one little hesitation wound that some think might have been her first attempt at stabbing herself. I am still open on that one.

Also, the bruises were on her right arm, both wrists. I saw a movie the other day with a woman trying to frame a guy for rape. She stuck her arm in a cabinet and opened and shut the door on it several times. I couldn't help but think of Darlie. Desperate people do desperate things.

And as long as we are talking about injuries, let's not forget the little fingernail scratches on the underside of her chin, which probably were put there by Devon as he tried to push her off of him and escape that blade.

[Goody]

Ok, this is what a "killer mommy" really looks like:

Investigators believe she was at home Wednesday night when Christian and Gracie Vasilev were killed. The children's father and a friend who had been living with the family discovered the bloody scene when they arrived home that evening.


Note: she did it while her husband was not home.

[i]
The little girl and the children's mother were both upstairs. The girl was dead, and her mother had what appeared to be minor cuts on her hands
[i/]

Note: minor hand cuts, probably from the knife slipping. Not deep stab wounds on the right arm of a right-handed woman, not a deep slash on the neck, not severe bruises on the undersides of both arms.

And one of her other children died in mysterious circumstances in a fire several years ago, which points to a pattern that is totally absent for Darlie Routier.


RstJWhat about the woman who stoned her children to death? She did it while her husband slept in the master bedroom. Sound familar?

No pattern of past abuse, but she was psychotic. However, Susan Smith, Diane Downs, and Darlie were not. A little screwy maybe, but not psychotic. :)

[mollymalone]

I heard about this over the weekend. Over 200 times each!!!! Good Lord those poor children. I wonder if she killed that first baby. Why do these mothers do this? I just can't fathom why someone would kill their own children and so brutally. She must be very mentally ill.I think she did the first child too. Very mentally ill or something.

[RobertStJames]

What about the woman who stoned her children to death? She did it while her husband slept in the master bedroom. Sound familar?

No pattern of past abuse, but she was psychotic. However, Susan Smith, Diane Downs, and Darlie were not. A little screwy maybe, but not psychotic. :)

Susan Smith was a chronic alcoholic carrying on three affairs at the same time. Diane Downs had a sick obsession with a guy in Arizona.

Show me anything even remotely similar in Darlie's background.


RstJ

[Jeana (DP)]

Susan Smith was a chronic alcoholic carrying on three affairs at the same time. Diane Downs had a sick obsession with a guy in Arizona.

Show me anything even remotely similar in Darlie's background.


RstJ


The only thing in Darlie's background that can come close to answering the "why" question is her history of narcissistic personality disorder. Darlie only cared about Darlie. If it wasn't happening to her, it didn't matter.

[RobertStJames]

I must ask...why do you keep insisting that the knife penetrated the bone in Darlie's arm when the doctors clearly said it didn't?

Because the testimony says, quite clearly, that is *did*

This is Parchman being questioned:


21 Q. Yes. Um-hum. And, did the physician
22 who was there (ER), that you, whose name you can't recall, did
23 he tell you that the one wound was -- did more than just
24 penetrate the skin?

25 A. He said the larger wound on her right
1 forearm went to the bone.
2 Q. Went to the bone?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. That's as far as it could go, I guess,
5 isn't it?
6 A. Well, if you examine that portion of
7 your right forearm, you're virtually over bone.
8 Q. Well, didn't you --
9 A. I'm just saying you don't have to go
10 very far in terms of portions of an inch --
11 Q. Yes.
12 A. -- to get to the bone.




I think that's perfectly clear, don't you? Knife wound to the bone.

That's not superficial damage, nor does any claim that she switched knife hands to wound herself make any sense at all.


RstJ

[Jeana (DP)]

Bull. A person's forearm doesn't have a heck of a lot of meat on it. It wouldn't take much at all to have a knife "go to the bone." Take a look at State's Exhibit 87A if you want to see what it looks like for some force to be behind a knife. :rolleyes:

[RobertStJames]

Bull. A person's forearm doesn't have a heck of a lot of meat on it. It wouldn't take much at all to have a knife "go to the bone." Take a look at State's Exhibit 87A if you want to see what it looks like for some force to be behind a knife. :rolleyes:


We weren't talking about the amount of meat on a person's arm. We were talking about the knife going to the bone.


RstJ

[Jeana (DP)]

We weren't talking about the amount of meat on a person's arm. We were talking about the knife going to the bone.


RstJ

If the knife doesn't go through the "meat" on the arm, it doesn't get to the "bone." There isn't that far to go unless you're talking about one hell of a fat forearm.

[Jules]

"Going to" and "penatrating" are two different things. As Jeana said, going to the bone on an arm doesn't take much. In fact, many "superficial" cuts could do that. Darlie was a small person.

[dasgal]

Just wondering why you side stepped my post Robert.:angel:

[dasgal]

"Going to" and "penatrating" are two different things. As Jeana said, going to the bone on an arm doesn't take much. In fact, many "superficial" cuts could do that. Darlie was a small person.
Absolutely Jules.

[dasgal]

Susan Smith was a chronic alcoholic carrying on three affairs at the same time. Diane Downs had a sick obsession with a guy in Arizona.

Show me anything even remotely similar in Darlie's background.


RstJAs DP pointed out she was narcisistic, had a "sick" obsession with herself, and a little bit of coke in the house. Not to mention being a "chronic" overspender:rolleyes:

Is that close enough for ya?

[Jeana (DP)]

Just wondering why you side stepped my post Robert.:angel:


He doesn't answer questions darlin. I think its because all the answers come back to Darlie and he doesn't wanna go there.

[amandab]

Doesn't Darlie have her own forum?

[Jeana (DP)]

Doesn't Darlie have her own forum?


Yes. www.fordarlieroutier.org

[amandab]

Sorry - I meant a forum here on WS. This thread was originally about 2 other children....

[Jeana (DP)]

Sorry - I meant a forum here on WS. This thread was originally about 2 other children....

Oh. Sorry. :p Yup, this is it!!! I think Dasgal posted that because some people believe that mother's won't do that to their own children. ;)

[Mary456]

Because the testimony says, quite clearly, that is *did*

This is Parchman being questioned:


21 Q. Yes. Um-hum. And, did the physician
22 who was there (ER), that you, whose name you can't recall, did
23 he tell you that the one wound was -- did more than just
24 penetrate the skin?

25 A. He said the larger wound on her right
1 forearm went to the bone.
2 Q. Went to the bone?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. That's as far as it could go, I guess,
5 isn't it?
6 A. Well, if you examine that portion of
7 your right forearm, you're virtually over bone.
8 Q. Well, didn't you --
9 A. I'm just saying you don't have to go
10 very far in terms of portions of an inch --
11 Q. Yes.
12 A. -- to get to the bone.




I think that's perfectly clear, don't you? Knife wound to the bone.

RstJ

It's been very clear to me all along, and I'm happy that you understand it now.

I was getting a little worried there with your comments about "Darlie had a deep (3 inches) and into the bone wound on her right arm" and "sunk the knife into her bone", because I know that's not true according to the testimony.

Sometimes it just takes an extra push before the light comes on. Good for you, Robert, you've got it now!

[Mary456]

Susan Smith was a chronic alcoholic carrying on three affairs at the same time. Diane Downs had a sick obsession with a guy in Arizona.

Show me anything even remotely similar in Darlie's background.


RstJ

Okay. Darlie was carrying on multiple affairs, too. One with Neiman-Marcus, another with Sachs and, when she was really desperate, Wal Mart. :dance:

[cami]

Susan Smith was a chronic alcoholic carrying on three affairs at the same time. Diane Downs had a sick obsession with a guy in Arizona.

Show me anything even remotely similar in Darlie's background.


RstJ

show me a history of the crimes they commited prior to murdering their children. that's what the point was, not their mental states.

[IrishMist]

But you could show poor mental state in Darlie...

Youth + being overwhelmed + financial problems + marriage problems + diet pills + post partum depression = poor mental state

[Jeana (DP)]

But you could show poor mental state in Darlie...

Youth + being overwhelmed + financial problems + marriage problems + diet pills + post partum depression = poor mental state


Absolutely! Also, she claims to have been sexually abused by her step father. I believe that's also a factor in other mothers who murder their children.

[RobertStJames]

Just wondering why you side stepped my post Robert.:angel:

Because you offered nothing new other than your interpretations which are simply not substantiated. Darlie's wounds are defense wounds. There is abundant similarities to literally thousands of other victims who have survived knife assaults. There is not a single case where anyone "self-inflicted" these kinds of wounds in order to cover up a murder. Viz. Diane Downs. If people want to continue imagining that these are *not* defensive wounds, that's their business. But the point is too obvious to even be worth arguing. It belongs in the same category as "Patsy Ramsey wrote the ransom note."



RstJ

[dasgal]

Because you offered nothing new other than your interpretations which are simply not substantiated. Darlie's wounds are defense wounds. There is abundant similarities to literally thousands of other victims who have survived knife assaults. There is not a single case where anyone "self-inflicted" these kinds of wounds in order to cover up a murder. Viz. Diane Downs. If people want to continue imagining that these are *not* defensive wounds, that's their business. But the point is too obvious to even be worth arguing. It belongs in the same category as "Patsy Ramsey wrote the ransom note."



RstJ
There is abundant similarities to literally thousands of other victims who have survived knife assaults.****rstj

Now you are just sounding ridiculous. How many of these "thousands" of cases have you personally seen. I used to do this for a living Robert so don't bother trying to BS me.

[RobertStJames]

There is abundant similarities to literally thousands of other victims who have survived knife assaults.****rstj

Now you are just sounding ridiculous. How many of these "thousands" of cases have you personally seen. I used to do this for a living Robert so don't bother trying to BS me.

You were an ME? A homicide detective? Because those are the kind of specialists who know the difference. Just working in a medical setting doesn't make you an expert. Especially if it's your opinion that the serious, and multiple, injuries suffered by Darlie Routier were self-inflicted.



RstJ

[IrishMist]

You were an ME? A homicide detective? Because those are the kind of specialists who know the difference. Just working in a medical setting doesn't make you an expert. Especially if it's your opinion that the serious, and multiple, injuries suffered by Darlie Routier were self-inflicted.



RstJ
I'm curious, RstJ... are you an ME or a homicide detective?

[dasgal]

You were an ME? A homicide detective? Because those are the kind of specialists who know the difference. Just working in a medical setting doesn't make you an expert. Especially if it's your opinion that the serious, and multiple, injuries suffered by Darlie Routier were self-inflicted.



RstJ
Yes actually RstJ. I was a Homicide Investigator, a member of Homicide Investigators of Texas, and well involved with this case over the course of 10 years.
Are you ready to side step again?

[dasgal]

Dp, can you believe how easily he fell into the trap???? LOL:laugh:

[Jeana (DP)]

You were an ME? A homicide detective? Because those are the kind of specialists who know the difference. Just working in a medical setting doesn't make you an expert. Especially if it's your opinion that the serious, and multiple, injuries suffered by Darlie Routier were self-inflicted.



RstJ


I think the doctor at Baylor has more to say about Darlie's injuries than anyone and we know what he said. They were NEVER life threatening and they were self inflicted.

[cami]

I think the doctor at Baylor has more to say about Darlie's injuries than anyone and we know what he said. They were NEVER life threatening and they were self inflicted.

Oh but DP that's how the supporters get around the guilt, they just ignore the evidence of Darlie's complicity like El Jefe, Rachael and the crowd used to do.

[cami]

Oh but DP that's how the supporters get around the guilt, they just ignore the evidence of Darlie's complicity like El Jefe, Rachael and the crowd used to do.

http://www.thejeffreymacdonaldcase.com/html/autopsy_photos.html

look at those photos if you want to see defense wounds--real defense wounds that is, not darlie's little scratchs. Warning they are graphic.

[Goody]

Susan Smith was a chronic alcoholic carrying on three affairs at the same time. Diane Downs had a sick obsession with a guy in Arizona.

Show me anything even remotely similar in Darlie's background.


RstJ

I have never heard anything about Susan being an alcoholic.[, or that she carried on three affairs at the same time. If anything that girl seemed to be used by men and that was her emotional downfall.

Can't argue about Diane Downs, but she was also totally irresponsible and prone to doing wild and crazy things. Of the three, she is probably the least surprising one to commit such a horrible act.

As for sick obsessions, I think Darlie's was rather simple....she was obsessed with the "living large" lifestyle. One of the first things Darin said after the murders was that they didn't realize how important people were to them, that they got too caught up in the living large lifestyle and valued material things too much. I think there was a lot of truth in his statements.

And you don't have to have a history of obsessions, crimes, etc, to commit murder. It is one of the very few crimes we have where people often have no indication previous to the act that ends the life of another. That's why we are always hearing from families and friends of the defendants charged in these crimes, "I never would have predicted this. He/She was such a nice person, no sign whatsoever of a violent streak or bad temper. I just can't believe it."

[RobertStJames]

I have never heard anything about Susan being an alcoholic.[, or that she carried on three affairs at the same time. If anything that girl seemed to be used by men and that was her emotional downfall.

Can't argue about Diane Downs, but she was also totally irresponsible and prone to doing wild and crazy things. Of the three, she is probably the least surprising one to commit such a horrible act.

As for sick obsessions, I think Darlie's was rather simple....she was obsessed with the "living large" lifestyle. One of the first things Darin said after the murders was that they didn't realize how important people were to them, that they got too caught up in the living large lifestyle and valued material things too much. I think there was a lot of truth in his statements.

And you don't have to have a history of obsessions, crimes, etc, to commit murder. It is one of the very few crimes we have where people often have no indication previous to the act that ends the life of another. That's why we are always hearing from families and friends of the defendants charged in these crimes, "I never would have predicted this. He/She was such a nice person, no sign whatsoever of a violent streak or bad temper. I just can't believe it."

Whereas we hear from the experts (homicide detectives, criminologists) who make it clear that people do not turn into murderers out of the blue. Just because someone is good at fooling people doesn't mean their heart isn't black as coal. Look at all the people who thought Peterson was such a great guy.

Susan Smith

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/famous/smith/lie_6.html?sect=3

The fall of 1994 had been full of activity for Susan. She worked full time at Conso, managed a part time college course load at the University of South Carolina, had custody of her two toddler sons and was sexually involved with three men:


It was Darin who was "living large." Jag, boat, etc. Darlie didn't even have an automobile to use at the time of the murders. A few pawnshop gimcracks, a pair of D-size hoots (Darin's idea, of course) and that was about it. The stories about her being in love with the lavish lifestyle are, like so many other things in this case, a complete myth.


RstJ

[RobertStJames]

I think the doctor at Baylor has more to say about Darlie's injuries than anyone and we know what he said. They were NEVER life threatening and they were self inflicted.

I think the doctor who saw her at the ER and put her in the ICU knows a lot better than any other experts in this case.


RstJ

[RobertStJames]

Yes actually RstJ. I was a Homicide Investigator, a member of Homicide Investigators of Texas, and well involved with this case over the course of 10 years.
Are you ready to side step again?

Excellent. If you were involved for 10yrs, please tell me about:

a) the blood pattern analysis of Darin's jeans
b) the substance of his interview at the hospital
c) Dana Stahl


RstJ

[IrishMist]

I think the doctor who saw her at the ER and put her in the ICU knows a lot better than any other experts in this case.


RstJ
She was put into ICU for her privacy. That's it.

[Jeana (DP)]

I think the doctor who saw her at the ER and put her in the ICU knows a lot better than any other experts in this case.


RstJ



If you would read the information available to you, you would know that he ONLY put her in ICU because her two boys were murdered and he was concerned (a) for her mental well being; and (b) media trying to get a statement.

[Dani_T]

If you would read the information available to you, you would know that he ONLY put her in ICU because her two boys were murdered and he was concerned (a) for her mental well being; and (b) media trying to get a statement.
Just in case he wants to make an issue of it:

9 Q. Okay. And after that, where do you
10 put her in the hospital? What is done under your orders?
11 A. The patient can be taken either to a
12 recovery room to recover from the anesthetic, the affects
13 of the anesthetic, until they wake up, or they can be put
14 in the intensive care unit. In her case, we put her in
15 the intensive care unit.
16 Q. Why did you decide to do that?
17 A. My concern was, just from what little
18 I knew of what happened. That I knew she had been
19 injured, and I knew one of her children was dead that I
20 had seen in the ER. And I was told another child was
21 dead at the scene, I was afraid that all this might be a
22 little too much for her.
23 Plus, I knew that there would be a lot
24 of media around, and I didn't want her disturbed, so I
25 put her in the ICU really so we could take care of her a
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
737
1 little bit closer and protect her from anybody who might
2 try to come in and bother her.
3 Q. Okay. What kind of patients are
4 usually taken to the ICU unit?
5 A. Usually critically ill patients that
6 need to be maintained on a ventilator, the breathing
7 machine. That's one criteria for putting someone in the
8 intensive care unit. Someone who is unstable. The blood
9 pressure is unstable, hard to manage. Someone who has
10 multiple injuries, like car wreck victims who will have
11 head, belly and pelvic injuries.
12 Q. Okay. So, Ms. Routier wasn't put in
13 the ICU because she was in critical condition by any
14 means?
15 A. No. Her injuries, by the time we
16 finished in the O.R., I felt pretty clear that we had
17 managed those, and those were of no further danger to
18 her. I was more concerned about her psychological state
19 after all this happened, when she would wake up, and
20 about protecting her from the media and all those kinds
21 of things.
22 Q. You were concerned being -- what you
23 knew about it was a stabbing and her two children had
24 been killed; is that right?
25 A. Correct.
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
738

1 Q. And you were concerned about her
2 psychological state and how she might handle that?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And also didn't want the press coming
5 in and asking her questions?
6 A. Correct.

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

When he had reactions to the drugs they gave him. He saw bikers in the halls , kept calling the police to report shootings. We took his room phone out but he found his cell phone and kept calling. He had some pretty bad mental reactions to the drugs. Paranoria if you ask me. We put him in ICU to keep a beter eye on him he wasn't in danger as long as he behaved and stayed in bed but eventually I had to get a court order and a judge to hold him there. He was pretty bad off mentally speaking until the drugs and his dehydration was stabilized.

[Goody]

When he had reactions to the drugs they gave him. He saw bikers in the halls , kept calling the police to report shootings. We took his room phone out but he found his cell phone and kept calling. He had some pretty bad mental reactions to the drugs. Paranoria if you ask me. We put him in ICU to keep a beter eye on him he wasn't in danger as long as he behaved and stayed in bed but eventually I had to get a court order and a judge to hold him there. He was pretty bad off mentally speaking until the drugs and his dehydration was stabilized.
There is a thing called ICU psychosis. It usually happens when people are put into drug induced comas. (Boy, could I tell you stories!) It doesn't apply to Darlie though because she was not receiving any meds that cause hallucinations. She was in ICU to keep the media away from her. Shoot, they gave her meds to relax her and even on top of the drugs they used for surgery, she still didn't go to sleep all day.

[beesy]

[QUOTE]Whereas we hear from the experts (homicide detectives, criminologists) who make it clear that people do not turn into murderers out of the blue. Just because someone is good at fooling people doesn't mean their heart isn't black as coal. Look at all the people who thought Peterson was such a great guy I think that's the point we are trying to make here. Darlie is not a career criminal, but many think she has 2 or 3 personality disorders. It does seem Darlie had/has a kind heart. She was always self-centered and attention-seeking though. So we add PPD, diet pills, money worries, husband troubles on top of her normal personality and things collapse. She admits to being very depressed after the birth of Drake, that's not made up. She kept a journal and even began writing suicide notes to her boys when Darin caught her. Family members and friends were concerned about her and tried to talk to Darin about it. She took to her bed for 3 weeks after finding out she was having another boy. Darin admits he blew it off as "the baby blues". Darlie was on prescription diet pills. She and Darin were fighting all the time about money. And as far as her history as a mother, after Drake was born, Darlie started locking the boys out of the house. Witnesses say she was fine as long as they weren't around her. Even before that, neighbors often saw Devon running around playing out in the street and at a construction site all alone. Witnesses have heard her cussing at the boys saying "F you and get your bleeps over here".


It was Darin who was "living large." Jag, boat, etc. Darlie didn't even have an automobile to use at the time of the murders. A few pawnshop gimcracks, a pair of D-size hoots (Darin's idea, of course) and that was about it. The stories about her being in love with the lavish lifestyle are, like so many other things in this case, a complete myth
That's bull. Darlie decorated that house. Darlie picked out all of those antiques and she was the one buying the fancy clothes for herself and the boys. I can't see Darin shopping in the boys' clothing section. Darlie has always worn alot of makeup and had her nails and hair done. She insisted on paying the Neals' mortgage for them for several months. The Jag was in the shop which is why Darlie didn't have a car at the time. Darlie planned Mother's Day parties and picked up the tab. That's in the transcripts, told by women who were there. Darin worked all day. How did they amass so much personal debt if Darlie was sitting at home doing nothing? Her jewelry was not gimcracks. She had big rings with huge stones in them, fancy watches, earrings and bracelets. One glance at the crime scene photos should show you how much she had. She sure seemed happy in those vacation pictures. And about the boobs. There is a friend who says Darlie told her that Darin said she could have an abortion if she got those boobs for him. I don't think very highly of Darin, but he was not forcing her to live large, no way! Why do you believe that?

[G.I.RattlesnakeJane]

Absolutely Jules.
I'm siting here rubbing the area where Darlie received her wound and I can feel the bone , not much muscle between the skin and bone.

[Goody]

I'm siting here rubbing the area where Darlie received her wound and I can feel the bone , not much muscle between the skin and bone.
If you are talking about her forearm wound, it was less than an inch deep. If you are talking about her shoulder wound, it is an incised wound which means it is longer than it is deep.

By the way, I was reading the bond hearing testimony the other day and one of the ME's said that Darlie's neck wound was only about a half inch deep. The bond hearing was only weeks after the crime and I trust her memory was sharper then than it might have been at the trial, esp for little things like that not necessarily noted in the record. She also gave a good decription of the various muscle patterns in the neck. I have always found it interesting that nothing vital was cut when there are so many things that could have been injured. Like windpipe, voice box, etc. How often do we see people who are cut in the neck come out of it without these things being cut except in cases of self infliction? Makes the intruder theory even harder to believe.

[beesy]

If you are talking about her forearm wound, it was less than an inch deep. If you are talking about her shoulder wound, it is an incised wound which means it is longer than it is deep.

By the way, I was reading the bond hearing testimony the other day and one of the ME's said that Darlie's neck wound was only about a half inch deep. The bond hearing was only weeks after the crime and I trust her memory was sharper then than it might have been at the trial, esp for little things like that not necessarily noted in the record. She also gave a good decription of the various muscle patterns in the neck. I have always found it interesting that nothing vital was cut when there are so many things that could have been injured. Like windpipe, voice box, etc. How often do we see people who are cut in the neck come out of it without these things being cut except in cases of self infliction? Makes the intruder theory even harder to believe.Ah, but how different the world would be without Darlie's voice box.http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/76.gif

[beesy]

Okay. Darlie was carrying on multiple affairs, too. One with Neiman-Marcus, another with Sachs and, when she was really desperate, Wal Mart. :dance: You left out herself and the Wal-Mart of pawn shops in Garland

[Goody]

Ah, but how different the world would be without Darlie's voice box.http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/76.gif
Why? She has that soft little childlike thing going. She is not much of a noise maker.

[beesy]

Why? She has that soft little childlike thing going. She is not much of a noise maker. Like I said, how the different the world would be without Darlie's voicebox

[Goody]

Like I said, how the different the world would be without Darlie's voicebox
Poor Darlie. She does take a beating around here.

[beesy]

Poor Darlie. She does take a beating around here. I'm just going to pretend I didn't see this:bang:

[Goody]

I'm just going to pretend I didn't see this:bang:
aahahahahahahahahhaahha! you are so easy sometimes. :woohoo: