IL-Two Young Girls Found Dead

[lady-eowyn]

ZION, Ill. Two young girls have been found dead in a park in the far northern Illinois community of Zion.

Deputy Police Chief Clyde Watkins says a person walking through a heavily wooded area in Beulah (BYOO'-lah) Park found the bodies this morning.


http://www.kwqc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3318790

News reports say that two 8 yr olds had been reported missing....I hadn't heard anything about them. :(

[mrs4point0]

How sad......You know, I look in the missing forum everyday just to leave feeling helpless and sad.

I saw a DR. on the news this morning talking about how kids are really being affected by not being outside in nature enough. He talked about some of the disorders (ADHD, etc.) that can be alleviated simply by getting outside on a daily basis. Anyway, the reporter asked about the stranger danger scare, and this DR. had the nerve to say that stranger danger and child abductions were OVERRATED. I wanted to point him in the direction of just to this forum alone. I hardly think he'd have that same view after seeing what some of these offenders do with little children.

[Pharlap]

ZION, Ill. Two young girls have been found dead in a park in the far northern Illinois community of Zion.

Deputy Police Chief Clyde Watkins says a person walking through a heavily wooded area in Beulah (BYOO'-lah) Park found the bodies this morning.


http://www.kwqc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3318790

News reports say that two 8 yr olds had been reported missing....I hadn't heard anything about them. :(



I know the area well. North of Chicago ..
Not alot of people go there.
So sad......:angel:

[Casshew]

Pharlap, what do you mean not a lot of people go there? is it a bad area? or a remote area?

[Pharlap]

Pharlap, what do you mean not a lot of people go there? is it a bad area? or a remote area?
it's a remote area, I've never seen alot of police around. People do fishing off the shore there...

[lady-eowyn]

Looks like they are the missing girl's bodies...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050509zion,1,4949577.story?coll=chi-newsbreaking-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true


The bodies of two young girls were found this morning in a nature area in north suburban Zion, authorities said.

The girls, both believed to be eight years old, were discovered by a resident walking through the wooded area near Beulah Park, Deputy Chief Clyde Watkins said.

The Lake County coroner identified the two victims as friends who had been reported missing about 8:45 p.m. Sunday, Watkins said. He declined to identify the two but said their families had been notified.

Autopsies were scheduled for Monday afternoon, Watkins said. He declined to give any details on the slayings.

[PsychesKnot]

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/050905_ns_zion.html

Police have not identified the bodies, but neighbors fear that the bodies may be that of two girls reported missing Sunday night.

"Yesterday I was at work and my wife saw them playing. They were drawing on my garage door and went home. About 10 a.m. (they) went riding the bikes. About 8:30 last night, someone came by the house looking for them," said Jim Goetz, whose daughter is friends with them missing girls.



Video available at that link.

Video has a neighbor, Jim Goetz, who says his wife saw the girls playing and "drawing" on his garage door (he was at work, he says) and they went home around 10, he says. I am assuming 10 am, because he then says they went riding on their bikes and that someone came around his home about 8:30 pm, looking for the girls. He has a 7 year old daughter, believed to be a friend of the 8 year olds found.

The girl's school is blocks away from the crime scene and is now on lock down as a precaution.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050509zion,0,7457125.story?coll=chi-news-hed

In that linked story, Goetz says he saw them around 9am...

Jim Goetz, a Zion resident who lives across the street from Beulah Park, said he last saw the two missing girls about 9 a.m. Sunday, when they rode their bicycles to his house to play with his 7-year-old daughter.

At one point, Goetz said, he scolded the children for drawing in chalk on his garage and made them clean it off. After about an hour, the two visiting girls got on their bikes and rode away, saying they were going to ride by the ravine in Beulah Park.


Video on that link has Getz (sp) on as well. Reporter says their names are Laura and Crystal.

-----------------

These could be media mistakes, ABSOLUTELY-- but I am just curious as to the discrepancies in what Getz and the reporters are saying. In a video Getz says his WIFE saw the girls while he was at work. In another video he says HE saw them and scolded them about drawing on the garage.

In one video I THINK he said someone CAME to his house looking for the girls. But a reporter in the second video says he said someon CALLED his house, looking for the girls. AGAIN -- very, very possibly media inaccuracies. Or the man just misspoke. Or I did not understand correctly what the man said. See what you hear and think.

---------------

[richandfamous]

Two 8yr old girls found dead (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155940,00.html)

"Two Young Girls Found Dead Near Chicago
Monday, May 09, 2005

ZION, Ill. — Two 8-year-old girls who disappeared Sunday were found slain Monday morning in a nature area in the northern Illinois city of Zion, authorities said.

A resident walking through the wooded area near the city's Beulah Park (search) discovered the bodies around 6 a.m., Deputy Chief Clyde Watkins said. A bike path and a ravine run through the area."


Sad sad sad...what is wrong with the human race?

[lady-eowyn]

I don't know....I couldn't even find any information on the missing children, nothing...no news stories or anything...the first I had heard of it was finding the bodies. Now granted it was only last night they were reported missing, but you would still think there would be SOME news reports to be found :confused:

It's very very sad...

[richandfamous]

I don't know....I couldn't even find any information on the missing children, nothing...no news stories or anything...the first I had heard of it was finding the bodies. Now granted it was only last night they were reported missing, but you would still think there would be SOME news reports to be found :confused:

It's very very sad...

I know! I couldn't find anything either. It is unusual that a perp will take two at a time. Wonder what is up here? I would have thought there would be more in the news....some outrage or something...but it seems to be rather a quiet side story!!!

[lady-eowyn]

I've done numerous searches and it's all the same...of course maybe since they were found so quickly after going missing there was no need to publish info about them being missing. IMO this is what needs to get out there ASAP though, the sooner the better.

I can't think of another case of multiple children being found dead together since the West Memphis case.... :(

[Jeana (DP)]

WTF! Who would DO something like this?????

[Observer]

I read on a link from CTV that their throats were cut.
I could kill people who do things like this with my bare hands.

[ariel7]

This is SO sad.
I hate these "stories".:(

prayers &
love for y'all,
ariel

[mushyb]

Holly Jones and Jessica Chapman were murdered together in England, such a sad case.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2003/soham_trial/default.stm

[Jeana (DP)]

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand why two second graders were allowed to play outside with no adult supervision. When are parents gonna learn?

[richandfamous]

http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=46645

"The girls’ throats were cut, authorities said.........

An elementary school about three blocks west of the park was said to be on lockdown today............

A third girl who was with the victims made it home safe, but it's not clear if she knows what happened."



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050509zion,1,4949577.story?coll=chi-news-hed&ctrack=1&cset=true

"Jim Goetz, a Zion resident who lives across the street from Beulah Park, said he last saw the two missing girls about 9 a.m. Sunday, when they rode their bicycles to his house to play with his 7-year-old daughter.

At one point, Goetz said, he scolded the children for drawing in chalk on his garage and made them clean it off. After about an hour, the two visiting girls got on their bikes and rode away, saying they were going to ride by the ravine in Beulah Park."


well well well....sometin wong here...hinky meter ding ding dinging...jmo

[Seeker]

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand why two second graders were allowed to play outside with no adult supervision. When are parents gonna learn?

Or sleep in their own beds in their own room with no adult supervision....or walk to school when they're teenagers, or....do anything without some adult they know watching over them.

Most kids are killed by someone, an adult they know, or are related to....

Yes, just when are parents going to learn that their kids shouldn't be allowed to be kids because we don't really punish the people who harm them? Our laws protect those perps, give them alibi's, make excuses, prolong their going to court, then appeal the decision etc...

I think we need to find out how we change the laws and make sure they're enforced.

Child molester's & killers =shot on site. No lengthy and costly court battle, no stalling tactics, no trying to make up excuses as to why they did it. Nothing. Give them the same sentance that they give their victims and carry it out immediately.

[1986]

Something not right here! I've got an uneasy feeling.

[richandfamous]

http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=46645

Update: Investigators take a bicycle from the scene of a double homocide in the woods near 17th Street and Henke Drive in Zion Monday morning.

http://www.dailyherald.com/dow_photos/2/zion3.jpg

[Juliana]

I'm sorry, but I still don't understand why two second graders were allowed to play outside with no adult supervision. When are parents gonna learn?

Yeah, and according to the neighbor (Goetz) he saw the girls taking off on their bikes at 9 a.m. but no one came looking for the girls until 8 p.m.? Hard to imagine 2 sets of parents letting their 2nd grader wander around all day, maybe 1 set of parents was supposed to be watching both? And on Mother's Day.... hmmm?

[packerdog]

I heard that they were going to have a PC soon. does anyone know what time?

[Maybe So]

Neighbor man/father of playmante is setting off my hinky meter.

I mean he just saw those 2 girls yesterday and now they are dead with their throats cut and I am wondering why I don't see any "OMG how unbelievable that this happened right here by my house, and I just saw those girls yesterday OMG and a murderer must be loose and I fear for my own child OMG OMG!!" kind of reaction from him.

Seems strange.....not much emotion or shock expressed when he talks...I would be crying if a neighbor kid was murdered.

Does the man have a wife? or is he a single father?

How mad was he about the chalk on the garage?

I think that to get both of them they had to be familiar with the person.

I just have a strange feeling but will not point any fingers at anyone without firm evidence.

[richandfamous]

I heard that they were going to have a PC soon. does anyone know what time?

haven't heard anything yet....but rumour is: A neighbor says the names are "Laura" and "Crystal"

http://tinypic.com/51213d

[Maybe So]

Yeah, and according to the neighbor (Goetz) he saw the girls taking off on their bikes at 9 a.m. but no one came looking for the girls until 8 p.m.? Hard to imagine 2 sets of parents letting their 2nd grader wander around all day, maybe 1 set of parents was supposed to be watching both? And on Mother's Day.... hmmm?

My neighbors all let their kids wander farther and for longer than I let my son go. Most of the kids are the same age (7) as my son and some are younger, and some are too young but they expect the others to watch out for them. However I don't know anyone who would let them wander for 8 hours. But they do not check sometimes for 3 to 4 hours. It drives me bonkers.

[richandfamous]

Neighbor man/father of playmante is setting off my hinky meter.

I mean he just saw those 2 girls yesterday and now they are dead with their throats cut and I am wondering why I don't see any "OMG how unbelievable that this happened right here by my house, and I just saw those girls yesterday OMG and a murderer must be loose and I fear for my own child OMG OMG!!" kind of reaction from him.

Seems strange.....not much emotion or shock expressed when he talks...I would be crying if a neighbor kid was murdered.

Does the man have a wife? or is he a single father?

How mad was he about the chalk on the garage?

I think that to get both of them they had to be familiar with the person.

I just have a strange feeling but will not point any fingers at anyone without firm evidence.

exactly why my hinky meter is dinging!!!!
what news are you seeing HIM on??? thx

[richandfamous]

ON Fox NOW!

correction...waiting for PC...it was just breaking news brief

[PrayersForMaura]

Neighbor man/father of playmante is setting off my hinky meter.

I mean he just saw those 2 girls yesterday and now they are dead with their throats cut and I am wondering why I don't see any "OMG how unbelievable that this happened right here by my house, and I just saw those girls yesterday OMG and a murderer must be loose and I fear for my own child OMG OMG!!" kind of reaction from him.

Seems strange.....not much emotion or shock expressed when he talks...I would be crying if a neighbor kid was murdered.

Does the man have a wife? or is he a single father?

How mad was he about the chalk on the garage?

I think that to get both of them they had to be familiar with the person.

I just have a strange feeling but will not point any fingers at anyone without firm evidence.
as soon as i read that about him yelling at them for writing on his garage door, I found that strange too... and then no one reported seeing them after he did, from what I've seen??

[richandfamous]

Laura Hobbs and Chrystal Tobias
Multilple stab wounds no evidence of sexual assult.
Died sometime in the early morning hours...2am or 3am.
No one in custody yet...(sounds like they have a POI)


omg...

[PrayersForMaura]

story has been updated:
Police identified the girls as second-graders Laura Hobbs and Crystal Tobias, NBC5 reported this afternoon. They were reportedly best of friends.
http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=46645

[PrayersForMaura]

Laura Hobbs and Chrystal Tobias
Multilple stab wounds no evidence of sexual assult.
Died sometime in the early morning hours...2am or 3am.
No one in custody yet...(sounds like they have a POI)


omg...
If they died around 2am or 3am, then they had to be held captive somewhere and then dumped, I would think??

It was obviously someone who was angry with them to stab them and not assault them.

Sorry, shouldn't point fingers but the neighbor who knew exactly where they were going for a bike ride is first on my list of "persons of interest".

[PrayersForMaura]

there's a thread on this in the "crmies in the news" forum, too. Can we combine the two?

[joanofarc]

as soon as i read that about him yelling at them for writing on his garage door, I found that strange too... and then no one reported seeing them after he did, from what I've seen??NBC5 reported the bodies were discovered by a male jogger and that the girls disappeared after leaving a friend's house around 6 p.m. Sunday. A bike was also found near the location where the girl's bodies were found, NBC5 reported.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=46645

This is saying that they left a friend's house around 6 p.m. on Sunday...so someone else must have seen them after the neighbour did on Sunday morning...

[PrayersForMaura]

press conference just reported tim of death around 1 or 2 am, I believe. There are three different threads on this case right now, so I apologize for duplicated info.

[PrayersForMaura]

NBC5 reported the bodies were discovered by a male jogger and that the girls disappeared after leaving a friend's house around 6 p.m. Sunday. A bike was also found near the location where the girl's bodies were found, NBC5 reported.

http://www.dailyherald.com/story.asp?id=46645

This is saying that they left a friend's house around 6 p.m. on Sunday...so someone must have seen them after the neighbour did on Sunday morning
so is the time of death at around 1 or 2am accurate? Where were they from 6pm til 1am?

[joanofarc]

so is the time of death at around 1 or 2am accurate? Where were they from 6pm til 1am?
Seems hinkey ,doesn't it, for a report of last sighting at 6 p.m and TOD 1-2 am...we haven't heard any reports of who the parents are yet...have we??

[Pharlap]

press conference just reported tim of death around 1 or 2 am, I believe. There are three different threads on this case right now, so I apologize for duplicated info.
Just stated on tv, they were stabbed a number of times, each.


so sad:angel:

[PrayersForMaura]

Seems hinkey ,doesn't it, for a report of last sighting at 6 p.m and TOD 1-2 am...we haven't heard any reports of who the parents are yet...have we??
not that i have seen.... is the friend who saw them around 6pm the same friend whose house they were at at around 9 or 10am?

[Pharlap]

Just reported, they were both stabbed a number of times each....

Chicago tv station reported.....:angel:

[joanofarc]

not that i have seen.... is the friend who saw them around 6pm the same friend whose house they were at at around 9 or 10am?It said their other little friend made it home...so maybe they rode with her to her house and then set off from the friend's house around 6 p.m. ...thus the report of seeing them at that hour

[PrayersForMaura]

Just stated on tv, they were stabed a number of times, each.


so sad:angel:
to be stabbed -- much less stabbed multiple times -- it is a crime of rage. Someones must've been pretty angry at two defenseless little girls... someone rather deranged :(

[joanofarc]

Just reported, they were both stabed a number of times each....

Chicago tv station reported.....:angel:This sounds like a major "sicko" on the loose...maybe if the girls were sisters or something then maybe a revenge killing toward the mother by the father might be the case but these kids were just best friends, right??

[Pharlap]

They were best friends, one 8 and one 9....

[PrayersForMaura]

This sounds like a major "sicko" on the loose...maybe if the girls were sisters or something then revenge killing toward the mother might be the case but these kids were just best friends, right??
yeah... just two little girls who were best friends :(

I am just speculating but it sounds like a fit of rage... either another little friend mad at them or a neighbor mad about something? Neither person, of course, is justified in doing what they did. Terrible.

Why weren't the kids with their mothers on mother's day??

[joanofarc]

yeah... just two little girls who were best friends :(

I am just speculating but it sounds like a fit of rage... either another little friend mad at them or a neighbor mad about something? Neither person, of course, is justified in doing what they did. Terrible.

Why weren't the kids with their mothers on mother's day??Oh you just set off some awful thoughts in my head.....I don't even want to entertain the idea....yet, you hear of 9 - 12 year olds doing stuff like that....scary....

[PrayersForMaura]

Oh you just set off some awful thoughts in my head.....I don't even want to entertain the idea....yet, you hear of 9 - 12 year olds doing stuff like that....scary....
there appararently was no known sexual assault so it had to be something personal and not neccesarily random. Unless they witnessed something they shouldn't have seen??

[PrayersForMaura]

"The parents of one of the girls had reported her missing about 8:50 p.m. Sunday, about two hours after she was expected home, Deputy Police Chief Clyde Watkins said. The parents of the other girl called shortly afterward, and authorities with rescue dogs began searching..
"

[joanofarc]

there appararently was no known sexual assault so it had to be something personal and not neccesarily random. Unless they witnessed something they shouldn't have seen??What bothers me is the time of death...where were these kids before they were reported missing....no sexual assualt is really strange as I understand that two children could be murdered with this as a motive...but without it, it just seems very weird....Who would do this.....someone who is very angry with these kids...why????

[Pharlap]

there appararently was no known sexual assault so it had to be something personal and not neccesarily random. Unless they witnessed something they shouldn't have seen??

The reports say at this time, it appears that way about the sexual assault.
They need to be examined to be sure, thou.....

[joanofarc]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155940,00.html


Oh I hate media reports....different stories coming out again..now they are saying the one girl was suppose to be home at 7 p.m., and they were reported missing to L.E. around 9 p.m. but it also states that they weren't seen since that afternoon....who or what do you believe...LOL.

[PrayersForMaura]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,155940,00.html


Oh I hate media reports....different stories coming out again..now they are saying the one girl was suppose to be home at 7 p.m., and they were reported missing to L.E. around 9 p.m. but it also states that they weren't seen since that afternoon....who or what do you believe...LOL.
I posted this on the thread in the crimes in the news forum:

i'm just amazed that these kids were seemingly roaming all day long!
Did they eat?

Timeline...


they were at a friend's house at 9am,
scrubbing off chalk on garage at 10
in a neighbor's hammock at 4pm
riding a bike at 6pm
were supposed to be home at 7pm, never showed
reported missing at 9pm
dead at 12am by coroner's report (estimated)
found at 6:00am

[Pharlap]

What's going to be hard about this case is:

It's very close to the Wisc border.
Lake Michigan is right there and at that location it's VERY DEEP, so if the weapon was thrown in the water, may never be found.
It's also the location of a closed nuclear power plant.

Also what was stated is the police aren't sure where they were killed....

[lostfaith]

Neighbor man/father of playmante is setting off my hinky meter.

I mean he just saw those 2 girls yesterday and now they are dead with their throats cut and I am wondering why I don't see any "OMG how unbelievable that this happened right here by my house, and I just saw those girls yesterday OMG and a murderer must be loose and I fear for my own child OMG OMG!!" kind of reaction from him.

Seems strange.....not much emotion or shock expressed when he talks...I would be crying if a neighbor kid was murdered.

Does the man have a wife? or is he a single father?

How mad was he about the chalk on the garage?



I think that to get both of them they had to be familiar with the person.

I just have a strange feeling but will not point any fingers at anyone without firm evidence.


Um....I think you just did point the finger at him.

[joanofarc]

I posted this on the thread in the crimes in the news forum:

i'm just amazed that these kids were seemingly roaming all day long!
Did they eat?

Timeline...

they were at a friend's house at 9am,
scrubbing off chalk on garage at 10
in a neighbor's hammock at 4pm
riding a bike at 6pm
were supposed to be home at 7pm, never showed
reported missing at 9pm
dead at 12am by coroner's report (estimated)
found at 6:00am
It is obvious...it was a "kids out of the house" Sunday....seems like they got into "trouble" when they were out and about as well....hope it isn't another case of parents not supervising close enough....just because the town is small and considered safe is not license to let your children go for hours on end without checking up on them....IMO

[PrayersForMaura]

It is obvious...it was a "kids out of the house" Sunday....seems like they got into "trouble" when they were out and about as well....hope it isn't another case of parents not supervising close enough....just because the town is small and considered safe is not license to let your children go for hours on end without checking up on them....IMO
I agree...
the little girls are cute. I saw their pictures on CNN.
this is so sad :(

[Jovin]

I posted this on the thread in the crimes in the news forum:

i'm just amazed that these kids were seemingly roaming all day long!
Did they eat?

Timeline...


they were at a friend's house at 9am,
scrubbing off chalk on garage at 10
in a neighbor's hammock at 4pm
riding a bike at 6pm
were supposed to be home at 7pm, never showed
reported missing at 9pm
dead at 12am by coroner's report (estimated)
found at 6:00am



This can't be right! They had to be someplace else, especially for Mother's Day..wouldn't they be having a special time with their Moms?

[PrayersForMaura]

This can't be right! They had to be someplace else, especially for Mother's Day..wouldn't they be having a special time with their Moms?
that's what i wondered ... although 10am to 4pm is unaccounted for, but it seems they were probably riding bikes til 11 or 12 (estimated) ... all those times listed were according to eye witnesses.

[Jovin]

I never heard a word about these girls until just a few minutes ago on the Dan Abrams show on MSNBC...this is just so horrific!

[ISPTRAX]

I just don't get it. Are these killings becoming more rampant or is the media just reporting on them more? We are truly in the end times :mad:

[Pharlap]

What's going to be hard about this case is:

It's very close to the Wisc border.
Lake Michigan is right there and at that location it's VERY DEEP, so if the weapon was thrown in the water, may never be found.
It's also the location of a closed nuclear power plant.

Also what was stated is the police aren't sure where they were killed....

Chicago stations had it on last night and all day today.......

[Pharlap]

The parents of both girls are in the police station being questioned as I type..

[joanofarc]

Maybe that was Mom's special time...a Sunday with the kids out of the house....yet, someone needs to be a responsible parent here. Yoo-hoo Dads....any in this picture...?? They are keeping awfully quiet about the parents...probably a good thing...at this point...

[richandfamous]

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0509/4468250_200X150.jpg
9-year-old Krystal Tobias and 8-year-old Laura Hobbs

""They were stabbed more than once," said Dr. Richard Keller. Neither girl was sexually assaulted and their bodies were found fully-clothed.

NBC5's Amy Jacobson said the girls were both stabbed in the neck. Their bodies were found side-by-side, face up in the tall grass.

Both girls were last seen playing at another friend's house Sunday morning. They left the friend's house at about 10 a.m. to go home, Jacobson reported. The girls were reported missing Sunday evening after not returning home.

Keller said the girls appeared to have been killed around midnight, but an autopsy is still being conducted."

http://www.nbc5.com/news/4466309/detail.html?z=dp&dpswid=2265994&dppid=65193

[kahskye]

I'm having a hard time about this too and wondering how any parent could let their child roam for hours like that unsupervised. Where I live, that would be called negligent. Given the fact that this was always a safe town, I would still think the girls would check in at some point just to eat lunch, have a snack, get a drink, or go to the bathroom. Maybe we haven't been given all of this info yet. Most 2nd graders would be starting 2nd grade at age 7, turning 8 sometime that school year. One of the girls was already 9, which could have meant she was repeating a grade. There might be a reason why she is 9 and in 2nd grade. I knew this person once who took his child out of 1st grade for the whole year just to tour the states making her a year behind. If it was due to her having trouble in school, I would wonder what kind of support this child was getting at home and how much freedom she had. Again, alot of info hasn't been released, I'm just looking at every angle. Were the girls maybe drawing on the garage door because they were mad at their friend and trying to get her in trouble? I have a 9 yr old dd and I honestly can't see her doing that. These little girls had too much free time and not enough structure. No matter what they did or who they might have upset, they didn't deserve to be murdered. We really have to take this serious and know where our children are!

[richandfamous]

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0509/4468730_320X240.jpg
Jim Goetz was one of the last people to see the two girls alive. They were visiting his daughter at his home on Sunday before heading off on their bikes at about 10 a.m.

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0509/4468729_320X240.jpg
Goetz said the three girls had been drawing with chalk on his garage door Sunday morning just before the two victims took off on their bikes.

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0509/4468733_320X240.jpg
The Tobias family's car was dusted for fingerprints.

Slide show (http://www.nbc5.com/slideshow/4466733/detail.html?qs=;s=01;w=320)

[lostfaith]

I'm having a hard time about this too and wondering how any parent could let their child roam for hours like that unsupervised. Where I live, that would be called negligent. Given the fact that this was always a safe town, I would still think the girls would check in at some point just to eat lunch, have a snack, get a drink, or go to the bathroom. Maybe we haven't been given all of this info yet. Most 2nd graders would be starting 2nd grade at age 7, turning 8 sometime that school year. One of the girls was already 9, which could have meant she was repeating a grade. There might be a reason why she is 9 and in 2nd grade. I knew this person once who took his child out of 1st grade for the whole year just to tour the states making her a year behind. If it was due to her having trouble in school, I would wonder what kind of support this child was getting at home and how much freedom she had. Again, alot of info hasn't been released, I'm just looking at every angle. Were the girls maybe drawing on the garage door because they were mad at their friend and trying to get her in trouble? I have a 9 yr old dd and I honestly can't see her doing that. These little girls had too much free time and not enough structure. No matter what they did or who they might have upset, they didn't deserve to be murdered. We really have to take this serious and know where our children are!

My son is 9 years old and in 2nd grade. I had him do 1 year of 4K and then 1 year of 5K, which made him a little older than his current classmates. I did this because I felt he needed a little more time before he was in school full time days, he was still teary eyed in the morning before school and I felt that he needed another year to mature. I would do it again in a heartbeat! He was also my last child and maybe I held on to him a little also. I dont think you should necessarily read anything into her being 9 and in 2nd grade. Doesnt automatically make the parent unsupportive. Could be many reasons for it, sickness that caused her to miss alot of school the prior year for instance.

[bulletgirl2002]

WTF! Who would DO something like this?????
A monster.....they really do exist!

[bulletgirl2002]

My son is 9 years old and in 2nd grade. I had him do 1 year of 4K and then 1 year of 5K, which made him a little older than his current classmates. I did this because I felt he needed a little more time before he was in school full time days, he was still teary eyed in the morning before school and I felt that he needed another year to mature. I would do it again in a heartbeat! He was also my last child and maybe I held on to him a little also. I dont think you should necessarily read anything into her being 9 and in 2nd grade. Doesnt automatically make the parent unsupportive. Could be many reasons for it, sickness that caused her to miss alot of school the prior year for instance.
I did the same thing with my daughter and she was elected homecoming queen and will be entering college in the fall. She is 19 and in the 12th grade. I am glad I did it.

[kahskye]

My son is 9 years old and in 2nd grade. I had him do 1 year of 4K and then 1 year of 5K, which made him a little older than his current classmates. I did this because I felt he needed a little more time before he was in school full time days, he was still teary eyed in the morning before school and I felt that he needed another year to mature. I would do it again in a heartbeat! He was also my last child and maybe I held on to him a little also. I dont think you should necessarily read anything into her being 9 and in 2nd grade. Doesnt automatically make the parent unsupportive. Could be many reasons for it, sickness that caused her to miss alot of school the prior year for instance.
I was afraid that would come out wrong. I don't mean to be reading any more into that than anything else. I'm just looking into different areas. I agree, I have seen unsupportive parents of children making good grades too. I also didn't know that all 3 girls were drawing on the garage which would not be making these two troublemakers.

[Sassygerl]

http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0509/4468730_320X240.jpg


http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0509/4468729_320X240.jpg


http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0509/4468733_320X240.jpg


Slide show (http://www.nbc5.com/slideshow/4466733/detail.html?qs=;s=01;w=320)

OK.....I've been out of the loop and am just getting wind of this story, although things happened fast it seems. I am saddened and shocked!!!! So is this guy being questioned?? (haven't read everything sorry...) I am just curious if chalk on a garage door would cause such rage???? Chalk washes off....if he has anything to do with it I don't get it. I've had kids color my walls, drag dog poop in on the carpet, lots and lots of things. I am clueless....like I said, haven't read everything, this post grabbed my attention since the kids drew on his garage and sounds like a rage killing.

Prayers for the friends and family....soooo sad.

[richandfamous]

This guy seems to be the one person that saw them last by one news report but other news reports say different! The parents are being questioned all day today and it seems they have fingerprinted the Tobias' car. The girls were found this morning and this man says they were at his house yesterday..that's all we really know. I'm not saying he has done anything..it's just that his initial statements sound a little weird..maybe not..jmo.
One of the bikes is still missing, maybe someone used it to get away from crime scene. Lot's of possibilties here.

[kahskye]

One of the bikes is still missing, maybe someone used it to get away from crime scene. Lot's of possibilties here.
I would think a grown man would have a hard time riding a girl's bike, which would be maybe 20-22". It seems that he could get away faster on foot. Being there's no sexual assault, could this have been done by someone younger just out for a random killing?

[lostfaith]

I did the same thing with my daughter and she was elected homecoming queen and will be entering college in the fall. She is 19 and in the 12th grade. I am glad I did it.

Oh, thank you for telling me that. The ONLY thing that nags at my mind is that some day he might be mighty mad at me that he is 19 and still in high school. I do believe I did the right thing though, my oldest son just made the cut off for kindergarten, so he was the youngest in his class, he struggled through middle and elem. school, now he is high honors in his senior year, but I really wish I would have held him back also. I think it would of done him a world of good. His struggle in school helped me make the decision I did with my youngest.

[richandfamous]

on Greta....dr boden says they were stabbed even after they were dead!
Says it is probably someone that knew them or mentally disturbed person.
They were found in wooded area right behind the play ground.

[Maybe So]

Um....I think you just did point the finger at him.

No, just speculating if he was the last person to see them. speculating on why he seemed kind of unfazed by the whole thing.

Without having heard all or really any of the facts I won't accuse anyone of a crime....speculate on whether they might be a good suspect yes, accuse them ...no way....that is why I said that although I was wondering...I would not point a finger of accusation.

Now that man himself or his family and friends probably wouldn't see the difference but I do.

[Maybe So]

on Greta....dr boden says they were stabbed even after they were dead!
Says it is probably someone that knew them or mentally disturbed person.
They were found in wooded area right behind the play ground.

Yes, maybe someone mad at them. But who get's that mad at 2 little kids?
Mentally disturbed for sure. But I also wonder about other kids like teens doing a thrill killing.

I wonder were they followed around for some time by a person waiting for the right chance or did they just happen to run into the wrong person at the wrong time and the wrong place by sheer coincidense?

[KatherineQ]

I think this is going to turn out to be children who committed this crime. Like, a pair of boys or three boys.

Twelve and 13 years old, around that age. Playing in the woods with knives, and suddenly they lost their minds.

[lostfaith]

This guy seems to be the one person that saw them last by one news report but other news reports say different! The parents are being questioned all day today and it seems they have fingerprinted the Tobias' car. The girls were found this morning and this man says they were at his house yesterday..that's all we really know. I'm not saying he has done anything..it's just that his initial statements sound a little weird..maybe not..jmo.
One of the bikes is still missing, maybe someone used it to get away from crime scene. Lot's of possibilties here.


I wonder if they are checking the other family's car also, or just the Tobias family? It also sounded like they were collecting samples or something in their house.

[Camper]

I think this is going to turn out to be children who committed this crime. Like, a pair of boys of three boys.

Twelve and 13 years old, around that age. Playing in the woods with knives, and suddenly they lost their minds.



------------------->>>KatherineQ, certainly an interesting thinking point. Goetz looks sorta mean, probably the face whiskers, Bundy was so sweet looking. Goetz in the second picture by his garage door appears to be wearing a wedding ring, so I a$$ume he is married and NOT separated.

Autopsy showing death at 1 or 2 AM, is certainly a wonderment, where were they, indeed, until they were murdered?

Wonder if Goetz wife and his daughter left to go somewhere, were they AT CHURCH and was he home ALONE??? Might Ms. Goetz and the daughter have gone to a movie for a mothers day treat at Mr. Goetz suggestion. Sorry, I have gone into the nearby ditch again, easy to do with so many of these horrible murders. People are getting nuttier and nuttier!!!!!!!!!!

The missing bicycle is a crazy feature of this case.

So I guess for my first thought, he looks mean and was mad, just how mad was he? Where were the girls in the early evening? Did they eat supper at home?

Nancy Grace was crying tonight when she had the ME and Mark Klaas on her evening show. Mark thinks it was a revenge thing.

Come to think of it HOW could the killer be MAD at both girls, was it a garage door thing, OR OR were there two killers?



.

[lostfaith]

[QUOTE=Camper]------------------->>>KatherineQ, certainly an interesting thinking point. Goetz looks sorta mean, probably the face whiskers, Bundy was so sweet looking. Goetz in the second picture by his garage door appears to be wearing a wedding ring, so I a$$ume he is married and NOT separated.

Autopsy showing death at 1 or 2 AM, is certainly a wonderment, where were they, indeed, until they were murdered?

Wonder if Goetz wife and his daughter left to go somewhere, were they AT CHURCH and was he home ALONE??? Might Ms. Goetz and the daughter have gone to a movie for a mothers day treat at Mr. Goetz suggestion. Sorry, I have gone into the nearby ditch again, easy to do with so many of these horrible murders. People are getting nuttier and nuttier!!!!!!!!!!

The missing bicycle is a crazy feature of this case.

So I guess for my first thought, he looks mean and was mad, just how mad was he? Where were the girls in the early evening? Did they eat supper at home?

Nancy Grace was crying tonight when she had the ME and Mark Klaas on her evening show. Mark thinks it was a revenge thing.

Come to think of it HOW could the killer be MAD at both girls, was it a garage door thing, OR OR were there two killers?
[quote]




I suppose nuttier things have happened, but I am gonna hold off accusing a man of killing two little girls for drawing with chalk on his garage! Maybe you might have something with the two killer theory though. I would think that unless the girls were bound, it would be hard to stab one without the other running off.

[PrayersForMaura]

I suppose nuttier things have happened, but I am gonna hold off accusing a man of killing two little girls for drawing with chalk on his garage! Maybe you might have something with the two killer theory though. I would think that unless the girls were bound, it would be hard to stab one without the other running off.I wonder if the same knife was used to kill both girls? I am leaning towards one murderer...

[TisHerself]

They may have been stabbed and left there but not have died right away. I think it was probably a couple of teenages too. They probably did know them maybe the girls came upon them doing drugs and said they were going to tell. Does'nt have to be a revenge killing but depending if it was drugs what they were doing. Some drugs cause rage.

[Camper]

http://jersey.uoregon.edu/~mstrick/AskGeoMan/geoQuerry50.html

"Chalk" is a variety of "limestone" which is composed primarily of the shells of single-celled, calcium carbonate secreting creatures. Think about this next time you use chalk - that white stuff all over your hands is actually countless individual shells, each microscopic in size and the former home of a living being."


I would like to know where the chalk is now, and who did it belong to, the two girls or Goetz daughter?

I don't think that it would have taken one hour to remove the chalk from the garage door. A quick garden hose would have washed it off without consequence imop.

IF the girls were told to rub it off, it could most likely have caused some unsightly damage, thereby increasing the anger. I would like to see the garage door up close and personal.

At the beginning of a case like this everyone is looked at. I am guessing that by tomorrow, some lie detector tests will be given to some people of interest. Goetz fits the bill for that ceremony.


.

[TisHerself]

They were drawing on his garage door at 9am they were not reported missing untill 9:pm.
I really don't think he is going to hold that kind of anger against 2 little girls and then go looking for them at night and stab them to death then take one of their bikes. I may be wrong but I just can't see it being him.

[lostfaith]

They were drawing on his garage door at 9am they were not reported missing untill 9:pm.
I really don't think he is going to hold that kind of anger against 2 little girls and then go looking for them at night and stab them to death then take one of their bikes. I may be wrong but I just can't see it being him.

I tend to agree with you. If these 2 girls regularly played with this mans daughter, I would imagine that there have been many instances in the past where the children have gotten into trouble, like the chalk incident. I cant see how the chalk incident would set this man off enough to murder them, the guy would have to be a total LUNATIC! I am leaning toward them coming upon something they should not have seen, I dont know what. It is way to early, not enough info. out yet.

[PinkyPoo]

I live just a few miles from the park. It's a beautiful area. It's well used since there is a wonderful Bike trail that runs through it. I hear the girls were found just off the trail. I often go there to run the dog, as many people do.

It's not really what I would call remote. However many areas of the park are not visible to the street. It is an area known for kids to "party" in. They have had some muggings in the park the past years so there has been trouble there before.

The local talk around town is that one of the fathers is being looked at now, but not a "suspect" yet.

[richandfamous]

Coffeehead over at ctv said they heard NBC5Chicago 10pm news reported the girls were found this morning by 'not a jogger' but Laura's father who is now and has been questioned all day. Listed as a POI by the news, and says he was recently released from a TX prison.

[blaize]

Hello all,

this is a dreadfully tragic crime. The missing bike makes me wonder if that could have been part of the motive. i know that sounds odd but maybe they met someone, or a group of people close to their own age and an altercation broke out because someone wanted the bike and the girls resisted and, well we know the sad outcome. Stranger things have happened and people killed over less ...

blaize

[lostfaith]

Coffeehead over at ctv said they heard NBC5Chicago 10pm news reported the girls were found this morning by 'not a jogger' but Laura's father who is now and has been questioned all day. Listed as a POI by the news, and says he was recently released from a TX prison.

Wow, that had actually crossed my mind! In being that I wondered if the checked out the person that found the bodies. Kinda coincidental that they would come across them, sounds kinda remote area. But then again, if they were searching the area, why wouldnt that make sense. Do you know why he was in prison?

[indicajane]

I have two children. My daughter is ten and my son is six. Everyone thinks I'm overprotective for not letting them go to the park alone, it is a block from our house. Occasionally, when i am shopping or whatnot my husband has overruled me and allowed them to go by themselves. He points out we live on an army base, and we're not like everyone else..since people have to give identification in order to enter the base, and because you can not live in military housing if you are convicted of a sex crime.
I don't care. I'm so scared about all these things right now...and its sad. Its sad that my kids have to sit inside and stare at the televison or play video games instead of going and riding their bikes, and exploring the way I did as a child. I remember spending whole days out and about, coming home 'when the street lights come on" But the saddest part is I don't know when it ends. I can't see feeling better about Daisy riding her bike to her best friends house when she's 11, 12, 15...I don't know what to do. Sometimes I feel as if, with these sickos breaking into the houses in the middle of the night, that I should just give them more freedom, and pray for the best. What else is there to do??

[Pharlap]

Coffeehead over at ctv said they heard NBC5Chicago 10pm news reported the girls were found this morning by 'not a jogger' but Laura's father who is now and has been questioned all day. Listed as a POI by the news, and says he was recently released from a TX prison.Just something to add:angel:


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050509zion,1,4949577.story?page=2&coll=chi-news-hed

http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=IC9Pza160SyiF2ZiSy17MES5SvjgcLT_rmV SHQ9HaY8MfqU-&name=Beulah%20Park&csz=%20IL&country=us&cs=10&qty=12&ds=g


http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=beulah+park&csz=zion%2C+illinois&country=us&new=1

[PsychesKnot]

Early yesterday afternoon, I posted a couple of links on another board here at WS, with links of videos of Mr. Goetz. At that early point, I was curious about a couple of inconsistencies between his two taped comment videos. In one he says his wife saw the girls while he was at work in the morning. In the other he says HE did. In one video he says someone came to his house looking for the girls that night. In the other video, a reporter says he said someone CALLED to see if the girls were there. I suspect that one is a reporter's mistake.

As far as Goetz having anything to do with it, I question now what I did then -- that the girls would have been missing all day and that he said he was at work. The girls were seen by others well after that time. I don't think he would have done something to the girls later in the evening for a chalking incident earlier. Possible, not probable.

Dusting their family car is curious as well. If the car was in the driveway while the girls were playing around the garage, it would not be in the least suspicious for their fingerprints to be on the outside of it. Even if they were inside it, it would prove little, as some children do play around in the car if the parents leave it unlocked.

-----------------

Re: the father finding the body--

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050509zion,1,4949577.story?coll=chi-news-hed
(must register or use Bugmenot.com password/logon of privacy1st@mailinator.com/tribune)


Hollabaugh and a police source said Hobbs' father discovered the bodies.

Hollabaugh said a relative was interviewed by police early Monday evening. Police confirmed that the relative was interviewed. Investigators left the Hobbs home with several bags of what they called evidence Monday afternoon, and Sheila Hollabaugh said police had taken clothing family members had worn on Sunday.

Other info from that article quotes Goetz's wife as saying that the girls intended to play in the ravine area and her own daughter asked to go with them, but she would not allow it.

Other info from that article--

Laura went to the beach and kite flying early in the day then to Krystal's. They were at a friend's home until around 4pm then went to another little girl's home. She was not there but neighbors saw them in the girl's backyard hammock, then a little later on their bikes in the neighborhood.

------------

Just a scattered FYI --

Krystal has a 15 year old brother.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GIRLS_DEAD?SITE=ILJOL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[PsychesKnot]

More on father finding body --
http://www.nbc5.com/news/4466309/detail.html?z=dp&dpswid=2265994&dppid=65172

NBC5's Amy Jacobson said the girls were both stabbed in the neck. Their bodies were found side-by-side, face up at about 6 a.m. in the tall grass by Hobbs' father, who was being interviewed by police Monday night, Jacobson reported. Police were calling Hobbs's father a "person of interest" in the case. Evidence technicians also took the clothes Hobbs was wearing out of the house.


Another link --

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/news/050905_ns_zion.html

The father of one of the young victims, Jerry Hobbs, discovered the bodies while walking through the nature area near Beulah Park around 6 a.m., according to Laura Hobbs's mother and the major county crimes task force.

Police found one girl's bicycle near one of the bodies and possibly another bike nearby.



and from Krystal's brother --
Krystal Tobias' older brother is confident his sister's killer will be caught.

"She was innocent. There was no reason for her to be out there in the woods. It was some sick guy out there doing this," said Alberto Tobias, victim's brother.



At that website are several links to videos. One has the above quote delivered by Krystal's brother, standing in a doorway. Also comments from Laura's grandparents, visual of their homes, modest but well kept it appears. The reporter states that Laura's father had only moved there from Texas in the past four weeks, but does not mention the prison angle.

[lauriej]

Hello all,

this is a dreadfully tragic crime. The missing bike makes me wonder if that could have been part of the motive. i know that sounds odd but maybe they met someone, or a group of people close to their own age and an altercation broke out because someone wanted the bike and the girls resisted and, well we know the sad outcome. Stranger things have happened and people killed over less ...

blaize
................the missing bike is huge! those little girls were on their bikes all day, there's no way someone hasn't reported 'finding one of them'..

..........a bike is also a HUGE piece of evidence to conceal, it will be found.....

...tragic story............2 more little angels in heaven....................do we have to wake up every monday morning to another case ????

[MistyM]

I just don't get it. Are these killings becoming more rampant or is the media just reporting on them more? We are truly in the end times :mad:
i think it always has gone on, it's just reported more now. a few hundred years ago people didn't really treat kids like humans at all. they would do things like move and leave the kids with the house, or just throw them out with the garbage if they died. today we treat our pets better than people used to treat children. unfortunately there are still sickos out there who kill children. but we care alot more now what happens to them than we used to.

[ThoughtFox]

So much bad news for children today! :( I already posted this somewhere else - there must be four threads just on this case alone in four different places.

Nancy Grace Transcript, with Mark Klaas and Coroner, May 9
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0505/09/ng.01.html

Discussion of the bikes, the area in general, the stab wounds, and possible motives. :confused:

I just want to say that I have a 9-year-old son, my youngest, and I have gotten much more protective of him than I was of my older kids. They used to walk to school, since we lived one block away. They always had a group, but now I feel badly that I let them do when they were so young. The old school has been torn down, and my youngest gets driven everywhere, even to the bus stop 2-blocks away. Especially since there is some construction near his stop, and there are workmen who are strangers driving around all the time. It makes me extremely nervous, knowing what I know now about abductions and opportunity. Watch your kids, folks!

[PsychesKnot]

http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-girlsdead10.html

The source also said the girls had been stabbed multiple times and appeared to have had their throats slashed or stabbed. They both had facial bruises and injuries suggesting they had been kicked, according to the source.



More at link

[audrey77]

i think it always has gone on, it's just reported more now. a few hundred years ago people didn't really treat kids like humans at all. they would do things like move and leave the kids with the house, or just throw them out with the garbage if they died. today we treat our pets better than people used to treat children. unfortunately there are still sickos out there who kill children. but we care alot more now what happens to them than we used to.

Yeah... just look at the Doe Network and you'll see that it's been going on for a long time.... Just not reported.

[karmarama]

This is so sad! :(


For some reason, I have a feeling that maybe a young offender is responsible? maybe 2 people? I really hope I am wrong!

Praying for those little girls and their families.

[mrs4point0]

Father Of Slain Girl Questioned In Deaths
Man Labeled 'Person Of Interest'

..........Hobbs' father -- who found the bodies and alerted authorities -- was interviewed by police Monday night, NBC5's Amy Jacobson reported. Police called Hobbs's father a "person of interest" in the case and evidence technicians also took the clothes Hobbs was wearing out of his house, Jacobson reported...........

http://www.nbc5.com/news/4470143/detail.html

[packerdog]

One article stated that they were killed around midnight, although they are not finished with their autopsies. That would mean that they were reported missing before they were killed, I wonder where they were because police had dogs in the park looking for them.

[mrs4point0]

Father Of Slain Girl Questioned In Deaths
Man Labeled 'Person Of Interest'

..........Hobbs' father -- who found the bodies and alerted authorities -- was interviewed by police Monday night, NBC5's Amy Jacobson reported. Police called Hobbs's father a "person of interest" in the case and evidence technicians also took the clothes Hobbs was wearing out of his house, Jacobson reported...........

http://www.nbc5.com/news/4470143/detail.html
__________________

[lostfaith]

One article stated that they were killed around midnight, although they are not finished with their autopsies. That would mean that they were reported missing before they were killed, I wonder where they were because police had dogs in the park looking for them.

I have said this before....I am really losing faith in those dogs lately.

[Pharlap]

Just anounced, that someone WILL be charged later today!!!!!!

[mrs4point0]

I have said this before....I am really losing faith in those dogs lately.

The thing about the dogs, though, is that they may not pick up a scent. However, they won't pick up a scent that's not there. Hopefully that makes sense to you. It sounds funny, but I know what I mean. :crazy:

[Jeana (DP)]

Just anounced, that someone WILL be charged later today!!!!!!


Thanks for the update darlin.

[mrs4point0]

Just anounced, that someone WILL be charged later today!!!!!!

It's the Dad, isn't it? :behindbar

[Pharlap]

Just announced that someone WILL be charged later today!!!

[packerdog]

I am glad they got the person responsible. It may be a family member if they were found so quick.

[PsychesKnot]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050510zion,0,4901213.story?coll=chi-newsbreaking-hed

An individual will be charged today in connection with the stabbing deaths of two young girls from north suburban Zion, police sources told the Tribune this morning. Details to come.


I hope it was not the father. I don't know why. They are just as dead, no matter who killed them.

[mrs4point0]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050510zion,0,4901213.story?coll=chi-newsbreaking-hed



I hope it was not the father. I don't know why. They are just as dead, no matter who killed them.

IMO a family member being responsible seems that much more senseless. :(

[richandfamous]

I'm sick.............................................. .......................

[lostfaith]

Just announced that someone WILL be charged later today!!!


I got the impression it was one of the parents or family member of one of the girls.

[mrs4point0]

FOX NEWS talking to Pat Brown, Criminal Profiler about it.

Children end up in this situation for 2 reasons:

1. Family member has serious issues and is responsible;

2. If girls killed where they were found, a creepy guy hangs out there.

[lostfaith]

The thing about the dogs, though, is that they may not pick up a scent. However, they won't pick up a scent that's not there. Hopefully that makes sense to you. It sounds funny, but I know what I mean. :crazy:

I think I know what you mean. All depends on what type of dog was used too, cadaver..... And, if the girls were not in the area yet when the dogs searched. I know the dogs do a great service, just seems their track record lately is not so hot.

[packerdog]

Pat Brown also said that it may be a pedophile who did this and stabbed them because they started to scream and he went into a rage. Just because they weren't molested doesn't mean it wasn't a sex crime.

[mrs4point0]

A Judge on FOX NEWS stated that this is most likely someone that knows the girls. If charge is homicide, either have substantial evidence or a confession because an arrest is so quick to follow.

[nanandjim]

It's the Dad, isn't it? :behindbar
I bet it is, too. This father, Hobbs, recently re-joined the family, according to one article posted. Why was he separated from the family in the first place? Assuming the father is responsible, what would drive him to savagely murder his child and her friend?

[mrs4point0]

I bet it is, too. This father, Hobbs, recently re-joined the family, according to one article posted. Why was he separated from the family in the first place? What would drive a father to savagely murder his child and her friend?

Someone stated in an earlier post that the father had served prison time. I don't know if that's true. I haven't read it anywhere, so I don't have a link. ANYONE?

[packerdog]

When someone stabs someone in this manner it is usally a rage killing, Isn't it? I think I also heard that it is someone close to the victim as well.








I bet it is, too. This father, Hobbs, recently re-joined the family, according to one article posted. Why was he separated from the family in the first place? Assuming the father is responsible, what would drive him to savagely murder his child and her friend?

[mrs4point0]

When someone stabs someone in this manner it is usally a rage killing, Isn't it? I think I also heard that it is someone close to the victim as well.

Many times it is the case that when one stabs a person like that, there is rage against that person and it is someone close to the victim. However, sometimes offenders not related will go into a rage because they can't complete the original criminal intent (molestation, or whatever).

[KatherineQ]

Did ya'll read the article about where they were found? Back in the woods, on a dirtbike and ramp trail, frequented by young men.

The girl quoted said it's very secluded and not that many people know about it.

It seems a little hard to believe a dad would know to go there . . . and it DOES sound like some place girls on bikes would have heard about, and might venture there.

Someone rode off on one of the bikes, didn't they? One of the bikes is missing?

I still think it's people, young men, who were together there in the woods.

Prayers they find whoever did this.

[mrs4point0]

Jeff Goldblatt (reporter) updating:

LE questioning neighbors and family members, especially father of Hobbs. Grandfather and father found the bodies. Father served time for aggravated assault, however Grandfather says he doesn't believe the father did it but is a person of interest.

No evidence that bodies were moved. No signs of struggle. Girls killed where they were found.

[packerdog]

Thanks Mrs4pointO, I thought that was the case.

[mrs4point0]

Did ya'll read the article about where they were found? Back in the woods, on a dirtbike and ramp trail, frequented by young men.

The girl quoted said it's very secluded and not that many people know about it.

It seems a little hard to believe a dad would know to go there . . . and it DOES sound like some place girls on bikes would have heard about, and might venture there.

Someone rode off on one of the bikes, didn't they? One of the bikes is missing?

I still think it's people, young men, who were together there in the woods.

Prayers they find whoever did this.

I have only heard that one bike was found. Nothing regarding the other bike, so you may be right. According to criminal profiler, Pat Brown, this was done by either a family member with issues or a stranger that was familiar with the area where the girls were killed.

PRAYERS TO THE FAMILIES........

[packerdog]

What I don't get is that the coroner said the time of death was midnight, and they were killed where they were found, not moved. Where were they until then?

[mrs4point0]

What I don't get is that the coroner said the time of death was midnight, and they were killed where they were found, not moved. Where were they until then?

:confused: I suppose we'll find out more as time goes by.

[lostfaith]

Did ya'll read the article about where they were found? Back in the woods, on a dirtbike and ramp trail, frequented by young men.

The girl quoted said it's very secluded and not that many people know about it.

It seems a little hard to believe a dad would know to go there . . . and it DOES sound like some place girls on bikes would have heard about, and might venture there.

Someone rode off on one of the bikes, didn't they? One of the bikes is missing?

I still think it's people, young men, who were together there in the woods.

Prayers they find whoever did this.


A Dad might know about the area if he has older kids who go to that area to dirt bike and stuff. I know about the "secret spots" my kids dirt bike and skateboard at. I am kids leaning with you on the young people thing, sounds like it was a hangout for no good, drinking.... But there is not a lot of info. avail. so it is hard to really form a opinion. Either Dad or young kids, terrible either way.

[Pharlap]

The Zion police will give a report late this morning or early afternoon....

This came from chicago station CLTV....

[PolkSaladAnnie]

What I don't get is that the coroner said the time of death was midnight, and they were killed where they were found, not moved. Where were they until then?

UNREAL!

Goodness me. Makes me wonder if the father went out looking for these 2 little girls, found them asleep (or playing) where they 'weren't supposed to be' and then literally went bezerk and *freaked* out at them. Ended up killing them. Lord above, perish the thought.

...or ... as was pointed out earlier ... had Laura and Kristela witnessed something they shouldn't have?

Whatever. All this child-killing is just getting SO out of hand. Frightening.

Pharlap, thanks for all your on-the-spot updates!

(& Lovely to 'see' you again, ThoughtFox! Long time :) )

[packerdog]

PolkSaladAnnie, I haven't seen you around in awhile. Yes, this is just horrible, all these children being killed.

I guess the dad saw the bike first, then he went looking for the girls and entered the woods and found them. Odd that the father found them before LE though.

[mrs4point0]

PolkSaladAnnie, I haven't seen you around in awhile. Yes, this is just horrible, all these children being killed.

I guess the dad saw the bike first, then he went looking for the girls and entered the woods and found them. Odd that the father found them before LE though.

Hopefully it's not the father. I'm glad this was solved so quickly, though.

I've only heard that LE has talked to neighbors and family members. FOX NEWS keeps hinting at the father, IMO.

FORMER DC INVESTIGATOR ROD WHEELER saying girls were lured to that remote spot. Says family issues going on....

He also says there is a motive behind it, such as a family member having aggression against another family member.

FOX NEWS getting update within the hour.

[packerdog]

LE will release a written report in an hour. Maybe they will say who they arrested.

[packerdog]

Mrs4pointo, I agree,they keep going back to the father.

[KatherineQ]

packerdog - the father AND grandfather (man and his son-in-law is the relationship) found them together.

They found the one bike, and searched the area, and the father discovered the actual bodies.

Doesn't seem likely that the father would kill the two girls with a knife and then make the knife vanish, really quickly, while the grandfather (his father-in-law) was yards away.

[mrs4point0]

packerdog - the father AND grandfather (man and his son-in-law is the relationship) found them together.

They found the one bike, and searched the area, and the father discovered the actual bodies.

Doesn't seem likely that the father would kill the two girls with a knife and then make the knife vanish, really quickly, while the grandfather (his father-in-law) was yards away.

The girls weren't found right away.

[packerdog]

KathrineQ, Did you hear if the father in-law thinks he did it? In other words does he stand behind him?

[KatherineQ]

packerdog - I don't remember reading either way, whether the grandfather thinks the dad did it.

From the story as reported, it seems impossible for that to be the case, unless they got the time of death wrong.

CNN has finally updated that a "person of interest" is being questioned and someone will be charged later today. CNN is often last to report, but they seem to check their facts well before reporting.

Bless their hearts, prayers for healing.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/10/illinois.girls/index.html

[Pharlap]

packerdog - I don't remember reading either way, whether the grandfather thinks the dad did it.

From the story as reported, it seems impossible for that to be the case, unless they got the time of death wrong.

CNN has finally updated that a "person of interest" is being questioned and someone will be charged later today. CNN is often last to report, but they seem to check their facts well before reporting.

Bless their hearts, prayers for healing.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/10/illinois.girls/index.html

An hour ago cltv said the grandfather(at that time) didn't think the father did it.
Does sound like(to me) the father did it....

[mrs4point0]

packerdog - I don't remember reading either way, whether the grandfather thinks the dad did it.

From the story as reported, it seems impossible for that to be the case, unless they got the time of death wrong.

CNN has finally updated that a "person of interest" is being questioned and someone will be charged later today. CNN is often last to report, but they seem to check their facts well before reporting.

Bless their hearts, prayers for healing.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/10/illinois.girls/index.html

The interviewees on FOX NEWS keep hinting at 'a family member.'

[packerdog]

I think they keep hinting at the fater being responsible, they have said many times lately that LE took the fathers clothes to be tested.

[KatherineQ]

Packerdog - I think they took all the family clothes, including the mother's. They also took measurements of the shoes the grandfather was wearing.

They're looking hard - and I guess, really, you have to know the grandpa's shoe print even if you don't suspect him so you can weed out his shoeprints from where the girls were found.

Another article, and a very dear picture of the blonde girl:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050510zion,0,4901213.story?coll=chi-newsbreaking-hed

[packerdog]

KathrineQ, Thanks for the info. They must have shoe prints where they were found.

[tuppence]

didn't I hear there was a 15 year old brother? I hate to say it but if this was an area where older kids hang out it could make more sense that they would go there with him. the crime seems almost childish in a sense and I thought the parents had an alibi for the time of the killings. I imagine they would be careful not to let that leak of it was the case.

[KatherineQ]

You're welcome. ;D The thing is, it could be the dad, I just don't think so and I can't make the timeline work out even near close for it to be him.

They were last seen at 4 p.m. by neighbors riding their bikes.

They were reported missing at 9:50 p.m., but the family had been searching for them since 8 p.m., so the dad's whereabouts were known at 8 p.m. and after.

That would give him between 4 and 8 p.m. to kill them, and the coroner says they were killed around midnight.

I can't make it come out that the dad did it.

[lostfaith]

Packerdog - I think they took all the family clothes, including the mother's. They also took measurements of the shoes the grandfather was wearing.

They're looking hard - and I guess, really, you have to know the grandpa's shoe print even if you don't suspect him so you can weed out his shoeprints from where the girls were found.

Another article, and a very dear picture of the blonde girl:

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050510zion,0,4901213.story?coll=chi-newsbreaking-hed

Well, yesterday, they were in the Tobias house, dusting their car for prints, taking somekind of swabs, so I guess we should not read too much in to what is going on at the hobbs house. It will be a interesting news conference. Could be either family so far.

[PrayersForMaura]

You're welcome. ;D The thing is, it could be the dad, I just don't think so and I can't make the timeline work out even near close for it to be him.

They were last seen at 4 p.m. by neighbors riding their bikes.

They were reported missing at 9:50 p.m., but the family had been searching for them since 8 p.m., so the dad's whereabouts were known at 8 p.m. and after.

That would give him between 4 and 8 p.m. to kill them, and the coroner says they were killed around midnight.

I can't make it come out that the dad did it.
I read that they were last seen at 6 pm

[KatherineQ]

The latest most detailed Tribune article says 4 p.m. - but certainly it could be wrong.

[nanandjim]

...I can't make it come out that the dad did it.
I'm confused, too. It seems like the third child's family knew the girls were going to this secluded area and wouldn't let their child go with them. Couldn't the Hobbs' father have talked to this third family and then went looking in that area on his own? If so, his footprints would be there.

I briefly saw or heard them say on Fox that 'LE was searching for the suspect.' I haven't heard it since and don't know if this was accurate or not. If they are searching for the suspect, I wouldn't think that it would be the fathers.

[lauriej]

You're welcome. ;D The thing is, it could be the dad, I just don't think so and I can't make the timeline work out even near close for it to be him.

They were last seen at 4 p.m. by neighbors riding their bikes.

They were reported missing at 9:50 p.m., but the family had been searching for them since 8 p.m., so the dad's whereabouts were known at 8 p.m. and after.

That would give him between 4 and 8 p.m. to kill them, and the coroner says they were killed around midnight.

I can't make it come out that the dad did it.
.............as i understand it, they weren't killed at midnight, time of death was approx. midnight....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7791977/

The newspaper did not elaborate. Police had earlier said they had no leads in the deaths of the second-graders, who were left to die off a bicycle path in a park.
Dad had been in prison
Hollabaugh said Hobbs had just returned to the area about a month earlier to reunite with Laura’s mother after serving time in a Texas prison.

“Jerry just got out of prison for aggravated assault and I think they’re holding that against him,” Hollabaugh said. “I don’t think he did it.”

Hobbs could not be reached for comment Tuesday; Hollabaugh said he was still with the police.

[mrs4point0]

I'm confused, too. It seems like the third child's family knew the girls were going to this secluded area and wouldn't let their child go with them. Couldn't the Hobbs' father have talked to this third family and then went looking in that area on his own? If so, his footprints would be there.

I briefly saw or heard them say on Fox that 'LE was searching for the suspect.' I haven't heard it since and don't know if this was accurate or not. If they are searching for the suspect, I wouldn't think that it would be the fathers.

I truly hope it wasn't the father. FOX NEWS keeps hinting at the father. Oh, but I'm sure they couldn't be biased in their reports, though... ;)

[mrs4point0]

.............as i understand it, they weren't killed at midnight, time of death was approx. midnight....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7791977/

The newspaper did not elaborate. Police had earlier said they had no leads in the deaths of the second-graders, who were left to die off a bicycle path in a park.
Dad had been in prison
Hollabaugh said Hobbs had just returned to the area about a month earlier to reunite with Laura’s mother after serving time in a Texas prison.

“Jerry just got out of prison for aggravated assault and I think they’re holding that against him,” Hollabaugh said. “I don’t think he did it.”

Hobbs could not be reached for comment Tuesday; Hollabaugh said he was still with the police.

Not looking good.......

[KatherineQ]

Lauriej - what's the difference in what you said and what I said?

I said, "the coroner says they were killed around midnight"

and you said

"the time of death was approx. midnight".

Those two statements are identical. What are you disagreeing with?

[Jeana (DP)]

Its impossible to get an exact time of death anyway and I'm sure the cool temps don't help.

[PrayersForMaura]

Lauriej - what's the difference in what you said and what I said?

I said, "the coroner says they were killed around midnight"

and you said

"the time of death was approx. midnight".

Those two statements are identical. What are you disagreeing with?the coroner did not say they were KILLED at midnight, he said the approximate time of death could've been midnight or earlier. That's a big difference. They could've been left to die earlier in the night, thus not "killed" at midnight, but died at midnight because they were left to die. They could've been stabbed repeatedly around 9pm or so, and the girls may have been unable to move, thus remained there in the spot where they were found bleeding to death :(

[packerdog]

I know midnight or around midnight, same difference IMO.

[KatherineQ]

Had they been injured and left for any period of time, Prayers for Maura, surely they wouldn't be in the same position, lying face up, next to each other.

And yes, I agree it's impossible to get an exact time of death - that time of death seems kind of hard to believe, anyway - surely, they weren't just tooling around on their bikes until approximately midnight, when they were killed.

Surely, something happened to them to keep them from going home long before that.

[PrayersForMaura]

I know midnight or around midnight, same difference IMO.
not the same thing... it's different if someone was stabbed at 9pm or 10pm and then died at 12. It's definitely not the same thing. Someone didn't necessarily stab them at midnight when they died.

[PrayersForMaura]

Had they been injured and left for any period of time, Prayers for Maura, surely they wouldn't be in the same position, lying face up, next to each other.

And yes, I agree it's impossible to get an exact time of death - that time of death seems kind of hard to believe, anyway - surely, they weren't just tooling around on their bikes until approximately midnight, when they were killed.

Surely, something happened to them to keep them from going home long before that.have you ever been immobile??
my relative is. so was christopher reeve. If they were stabbed in the neck, could've sent thier nervous systems in shock and they couldn't move.
They could've been stabbed in a different location, died at 12 and then moved. None of us know exactly... so you can't say for certain that they died and were stabbed at around midnight. The time of death is the more accurate assumption since it was done by a professional. that doesn't mean they were stabbed at midnight/murdered at midnight.

[lauriej]

Lauriej - what's the difference in what you said and what I said?

I said, "the coroner says they were killed around midnight"

and you said

"the time of death was approx. midnight".

Those two statements are identical. What are you disagreeing with?
..sorry, perhaps i misunderstood your post then....i was referring to the statement in the article............" left to die off the bike path...", stabbed perhaps hours earlier...

[packerdog]

not the same thing... it's different if someone was stabbed at 9pm or 10pm and then died at 12. It's definitely not the same thing. Someone didn't necessarily stab them at midnight when they died.

I think being stabbed in the neck would cause an almost instant death.

[lauriej]

on CNN now...............father to be charged..........damn.....

[Pocono Sleuther]

Fox news reporting now on this case!

[lady-eowyn]

Oh gosh....why oh why do parents do this??!!

[audrey77]

News articles are saying that Hobbs just got out of prison- has numerous arrests for aggrivated assault.... :furious:

[Pocono Sleuther]

on CNN now...............father to be charged..........damn.....
Hey Lauriej. We posted at the same time. Fox isn't naming anyone yet...screen reads "awaiting statement". God, how could a father do that???? and WHY?

[KatherineQ]

The fact that the dad is STILL with police sounds bad, that's true. Really bad.

[packerdog]

On Fox now...Multiple stab wounds including the neck, both died due to being stabbed.
I don't think they lived long after being stabbed.

[PrayersForMaura]

I think being stabbed in the neck would cause an almost instant death.
you would think :(

We are all just speculating here, but what was reported is this:
“The time of death was sometime during the night or early morning, but it may have been earlier than that, it's hard to say.” Keller mentioned that a light rain had fallen Sunday night, and said there were cool temperatures in the area overnight.

Keller told NBC's "Today" show on Tuesday that the girls were found fully clothed and that most of the stab wounds were to the neck. "

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7791977/

[Jeana (DP)]

The fact that the dad is STILL with police sounds bad, that's true. Really bad.


Yup, since he's being charged, I think he'll be with police for probably the rest of his life. Sad as it is, its got to be a relief to the neighborhs to know there isn't a child killer on the loose.

[Pocono Sleuther]

I'm sitting here with my 5 year old running around like a lunatic. We were just heading outside for a walk when I put the tv on. I was surprised to hear they had an arrest statement to be made public already. This is so sad! I can not imagine WHY you would any child! My Maggie is running around giggling and singing with our puppy...breaks my heart to imagine anyone ever hurting her. I can't stand this anymore. Each day there are new stories of children missing or worse. We live in a small town, we know our neighbors, but I will not let my two (age 8 and 5) out of the yard alone. NO WAY!

[KatherineQ]

Awful, horrible.

[PrayersForMaura]

On Fox now...Multiple stab wounds including the neck, both died due to being stabbed.
I don't think they lived long after being stabbed.
if that were the case, and they died close to midnight, then where were they from 6pm til 11?

[Pocono Sleuther]

Yup, since he's being charged, I think he'll be with police for probably the rest of his life. Sad as it is, its got to be a
relief to the neighborhs to know there isn't a child killer on the loose.

Hope he ROTS in prison. I'm wondering if they can tell by the wounds if he would have had to be facing the girls and looking at their eyes when he stabbed them? Can you imagine? :furious: :(

[packerdog]

if that were the case, and they died close to midnight, then where were they from 6pm til 11?
Don't know, that has me scraching my head. :waitasec:

[Pocono Sleuther]

if that were the case, and they died close to midnight, then where were they from 6pm til 11?
Good question. Am I wrong or wasn't the father supposedly at work?

[Mabel]

Fox news has not yet announced an arrest. I have to wonder, since it appears there was no evidence of the girls being bound, how the killer managed to restrain the second girl while killing the first. What an awful, terrible thing for these sweet little best friends to suffer through.

[Pocono Sleuther]

Oh God Mabel! I hadn't even thought of that! The horror that little girl must have felt watching him kill the first one....:mad:

[packerdog]

Hi Mable, OJ managed it, so I suppose he could handle young girls.

[PrayersForMaura]

Fox news has not yet announced an arrest. I have to wonder, since it appears there was no evidence of the girls being bound, how the killer managed to restrain the second girl while killing the first. What an awful, terrible thing for these sweet little best friends to suffer through.
I just don't understand why..... :(
those poor little girls. They are so cute. And his own daughter, little Laura.

I wonder about the two families.
The mother doesn't have Laura or her father's last name and the other little girl Tobias has a brother with a different last name... sounds like they come from broken homes :(
Poor little angels.

[lady-eowyn]

Fox news has not yet announced an arrest. I have to wonder, since it appears there was no evidence of the girls being bound, how the killer managed to restrain the second girl while killing the first. What an awful, terrible thing for these sweet little best friends to suffer through.
There is always the possibility he knocked them unconcious...I believe I saw earlier reports of injuries to the head as if they had been kicked or beaten:(

[Jeana (DP)]

I think that its possible that he had possibly been sexually molesting them and was concerned that they were going to tell on him??????

[Pocono Sleuther]

I think that its possible that he had possibly been sexually molesting them and was concerned that they were going to tell on him??????
I was just going to post something like this. It seems most of these cases involve pedophilia. SICK!

[PrayersForMaura]

I think that its possible that he had possibly been sexually molesting them and was concerned that they were going to tell on him??????
I definitely wonder if the autopsies had shown prior abuse, but it appeared that they weren't assaulted according to the coroner's report info that the media reported...
I wonder if they witnessed something? Maybe did an "I'm gonna tell mom" thing?
And he snapped?

[DebC]

Fox news has not yet announced an arrest. I have to wonder, since it appears there was no evidence of the girls being bound, how the killer managed to restrain the second girl while killing the first. What an awful, terrible thing for these sweet little best friends to suffer through.
That reminds me a lot of Holly & Jessica in Soham. Huntley managed to kill them both without restraining them. But that was done in a house, not outside. You'd have thought that one of them would have run away.

I still think that Krystal's 15 year old brother knows more than he is saying.

[PolkSaladAnnie]

PolkSaladAnnie, I haven't seen you around in awhile. Yes, this is just horrible, all these children being killed.

I guess the dad saw the bike first, then he went looking for the girls and entered the woods and found them. Odd that the father found them before LE though.

Hi packerdog; never stopped reading here despite posting elsewhere for a few months! Like everyone here, I'm a true crime fanatic, always following media stories and even tho I'm 1000's k's away, I read the 'Net all the time.

Yes, it is odd. Haven't read rest of page 6 or 7, so I might be behind already (typical :doh: ). I realise what KatherineQ is saying holds water: that the grandfather was with the dad when they were looking that morning (or so it's reported here).

But, that was 6 am. There may not have been anyone with the father at MIDNIGHT ... this is the supposed ToD, isn't it?

I do find it odd that the father managed to find the girls in all the overgrown terrain, at that time of the morning, when LE had to use 4X4 vehicles to access the area.

Maybe the grandfather was an innocent searcher??? If (if if ~ and I find it a truly diabolical thought that one of these girls' father could have done this; hope it's not the case) he did, he could have flung the knife *anywhere* in that bush.

Agreed: any killer could have thrown the knife, not just the daddy.

What makes me go "oooh, er..." about that thought is that I doubt the father WENT LOOKING for the girls, (after being reported missing) with a knife in his hand. As I say ... unless the girls stumbled across something they shouldn't have...

Best I catch up before I make a total clutz of myself ... :)

[PolkSaladAnnie]

on CNN now...............father to be charged..........damn.....

Oh no .... NO! :( :( :(

Dreadful!

WHY!!!!! ?

[KatherineQ]

Has that story been dropped? It's not on their website or anyone elses, and I watched CNN for about 20 minutes just now, and it's not there anymore.

Is that story of the dad being charged still being carried anywhere?

[SauerKraut]

I definitely wonder if the autopsies had shown prior abuse, but it appeared that they weren't assaulted according to the coroner's report info that the media reported...
I wonder if they witnessed something? Maybe did an "I'm gonna tell mom" thing?
And he snapped?

I have to wonder about the relationship with the mother and father. What is this about him "recently re-joining the family?" Sounds like there are a lot of family things going on. Maybe the mother was upset, got into an argument with the father about her maybe being disobedient. Then when they went out to look for her, he was enraged that she "caused" this fight with the mother and just lost it. I don't know. It's very sad. I hate to say it's better if they find it was the father, this being a random act is just all the more sicke. Do I want to bring kids into this world? :confused:

[PrayersForMaura]

Has that story been dropped? It's not on their website or anyone elses, and I watched CNN for about 20 minutes just now, and it's not there anymore.

Is that story of the dad being charged still being carried anywhere?
I was wondering the same thing? I wonder if the talking heads jumped the gun?? I didn't see anything on foxnews.com or cnn.com and they usually post their breaking news stories right away.

[PolkSaladAnnie]

Have no idea, KatherineQ. I'm following the story here.

The 'missing bike' makes me wonder if one of the two little girls tried to get away and the killer (not saying 'the dad' unless it's official :() chased after her, threw her bike and brought her back to her friend.

So young, so harmless ... beggars belief!

[PrayersForMaura]

I have to wonder about the relationship with the mother and father. What is this about him "recently re-joining the family?" Sounds like there are a lot of family things going on. Maybe the mother was upset, got into an argument with the father about her maybe being disobedient. Then when they went out to look for her, he was enraged that she "caused" this fight with the mother and just lost it. I don't know. It's very sad. I hate to say it's better if they find it was the father, this being a random act is just all the more sicke. Do I want to bring kids into this world? :confused:
I hear ya... I am worried about all this violence amongst women and children, and it's always been here, just more media coverage these days.

Maybe the father was angry because the kids were out all day and didn't spend time with the mother on mother's day? Seem awfully extreme way to handle his displaced anger if that's the case.

[mrs4point0]

Have no idea, KatherineQ. I'm following the story here.

The 'missing bike' makes me wonder if one of the two little girls tried to get away and the killer (not saying 'the dad' unless it's official :() chased after her, threw her bike and brought her back to her friend.

So young, so harmless ... beggars belief!

I haven't heard about a missing bike. I have read that one of the bikes was found near the girls. However, there has been no emphasis on the other bike or that it is missing in anything I've read in the media. Is it missing, or just not mentioned?