Genreral discussion #3 [Archive] - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 11:47 AM

This buyer made a purchase on Feb. 24, and then not again until April 28th, (books). Then on May 6th and May 19th, purchased computer parts. Interesting find. (Sorry if you've already discussed this too but I' still lagging behind, and now I've got to go out again! You'll all probably have another four pages when I get back!!! LOL!)

JerseyGirl, there is nothing to suggest that anyone other than lostmyjobsales is Raven. Golfmom posted the ID history for that one account and it included FootBallerGuy. ( however he spelled it).
Even had a name going back to Ravenstree.com

The SamuelPeters and SamuelPeter accounts all looked to be very out of Raven's world. One was a guy who trades in vintage Mustang parts, the other had little activity as a seller.

I don't think Raven bought, I think Raven SOLD. These people didn't have the money for rent... I can't see him buying books in Feb. JMHO.

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 11:51 AM

Just a thought on the shoes, it could be possible that both Raven and Janet had shiny soccer shoes ...

Yep, if Eurosport was handling a lot of metallic silver shoes, then that's probably what Raven stole. Since they are all on sale now, it appears, I would say they are last year's merchandise. If he could pilfer them for free, I guess they could both look at their reflections in their shoes.
I think the shoes are just plain weird, no matter who wore them.

Still think they look like my mother's size 9 AAAA shoes though. Hers look HUGE because they are so long.. kind of like these ( I'm sorry, Janet).

Jenifred

06-02-2005, 11:52 AM

Just a thought on the shoes, it could be possible that both Raven and Janet had shiny soccer shoes ...
Plus the differences between the women's and men's shoes are hard to notice, unless you are looking closely.

$400 for two pairs of shoes, ouch! Oh wait, they weren't paid for!

golfmom

06-02-2005, 11:56 AM

JerseyGirl, there is nothing to suggest that anyone other than lostmyjobsales is Raven. Golfmom posted the ID history for that one account and it included FootBallerGuy. ( however he spelled it).
Even had a name going back to Ravenstree.com

The SamuelPeters and SamuelPeter accounts all looked to be very out of Raven's world. One was a guy who trades in vintage Mustang parts, the other had little activity as a seller.

I don't think Raven bought, I think Raven SOLD. These people didn't have the money for rent... I can't see him buying books in Feb. JMHO.

ThinkofLaura, could you recheck the samuel_peter ebay stuff for us? You seem to know how to pull that info out better than I do. I thought I saw mountain bike stuff in there, which really fits with Raven. As well as electronic gear.

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 11:56 AM

JerseyGirl, there is nothing to suggest that anyone other than lostmyjobsales is Raven. Golfmom posted the ID history for that one account and it included FootBallerGuy. ( however he spelled it).
Even had a name going back to Ravenstree.com

The SamuelPeters and SamuelPeter accounts all looked to be very out of Raven's world. One was a guy who trades in vintage Mustang parts, the other had little activity as a seller.

I don't think Raven bought, I think Raven SOLD. These people didn't have the money for rent... I can't see him buying books in Feb. JMHO.
Just to clarify.... having no money does not stop people in debt from spending ... in fact, many people who have no money rack up over $20,000 in credit card expenditures.

I'm not saying SamuelPeter is Raven, but I'm not saying he isn't either.
Raven did live in utah around that period so who knows.
i definitely know the person you found IS raven because as you noted, the previous ids for that person go back to ravenstree.com.
Good find!!!

Jenifred

06-02-2005, 12:00 PM

I can't find where it is, or else I would post there. But, here's a little something that I noticed. If you look at the pictures that Tiffany posted at graduation, you can tell that Raven's shirt has been professionally pressed. I know that look very well. It's not just out of the bag, nor just pressed by wifey, but it's been taken to the cleaners to have cleaned and pressed. That is so typical of a man who is concerned about how he looks--as a metrosexual would.

However there is one question that I've got. Usually these metrosexual tendancies spill over into all aspects of their living. Was their home decorated nicely? Would someone walk into it and think, wow there is some nice stuff in here? Because from the pictures I see, it was kind of kind of minimalist--not very extravagant.

golfmom

06-02-2005, 12:02 PM

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23790
post 18

I've received one confirmation from a separate source that says it's spot-on.

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 12:02 PM

fyi on the samuel peter guy....

his profile was created about 3 years ago which would've been 2002...
Janet went back to college in 2002, from what info i've gathered and Raven was living back in utah briefly. I don't understand it all and the moving and stuff but I think that is correct. Anyone know of anything differently pertaining to 2002??
Let me/us know. I still need to get that timeline updated...

thanks!

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 12:03 PM

It's not a rental district. I was surprised at how nice a surrounding it is. There were no visible signs of it being a rental area.

PS- I believed you last night. I think some people were not online and didn't keep reading to find answers to the questions which were asked then answered. :) You did an excellent job!! Now, go back, leave some flowers from WS, and try on those shoes!!! :laugh:

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 12:06 PM

PS- I believed you last night. I think some people were not online and didn't keep reading to find answers to the questions which were asked then answered. :) You did an excellent job!! Now, go back, leave some flowers from WS, and try on those shoes!!! :laugh:I eventually did keep reading... I read posts in the order in which they are posted and reply as I am reading. I then go back and edit or comment again if I've found an answer to my post, which I believe is why NCBanker wrote that again about the rental district, replying to my post. I had written that I thought it was a rental district and then went back and edited it out as I kept reading and found NC Banker's note that it was NOT a rental district.

i was mostly commenting on the pool thing, and edited out my comment about the rental district, to which NCbanker replied...
There are comments and pictures about Raven taking Kaiden to the pool. :)

Just clarifying my original post ;) I did keep reading though ...

anneshirley

06-02-2005, 12:08 PM

Boy, while reading that eulogy, I felt I was stabbed in the chest! What a true loss of a life. Janet sounded absolutely amazing. What guilt the parents must feel pushing her to go to the college where she met HIM!!!

I can't imagine anybody bringing up at the funeral that they were suspicious of Raven. And of course, as Allgood points out, none of Scott's and Laci's family thought Scott Peters(on) was capable of murder. IMO, the Abaroas will stick to Raven being innocent and the Christensens may change their mind.

Trust me, I wasn't expecting Janet's family or their friends to curse Raven at her funeral. But I do KNOW that her family (at least the extended portion) were not fond of him. I was surprised by the somewhat loving tributes to Raven, especially by Janet's former teammates, in the eulogies.

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 12:12 PM

Just to clarify.... having no money does not stop people in debt from spending ... in fact, many people who have no money rack up over $20,000 in credit card expenditures.

I'm not saying SamuelPeter is Raven, but I'm not saying he isn't either.
Raven did live in utah around that period so who knows.
i definitely know the person you found IS raven because as you noted, the previous ids for that person go back to ravenstree.com.
Good find!!!

The last purchases made by this SamuelPeter were made this year, in Feb. and in May. 2 were for Apple Computer parts. My husband has bought Apple computer add ons, and he is certainly not guilty of any crime.

I really don't see anything which ties Raven to this account. Also, there is NO selling that I can see. If Raven needed to dump the soccer stuff, he would have used as many eBay outlets ( screen names ) as he could.

Another thing: Your contact info must be kept up to date. They will throw you off eBay in a heartbeat if they cannot verify your contact info. ( Happened to a friend of mine who was buying under one account name and selling under another name. She got caught after 5 years because her address on eBay and her address on PayPal didn't match. She gave a NYC address for the fake name, while she has always lived in CA).
Raven was not living in Utah in either Feb. or May. A seller gets a message from eBay saying where the person lives based upon the info in their account.
Same goes for PayPal, which most eBayers use. The PayPal info HAS to be corect, otherwise someone else is going to get the item bought. People report the discrepencies, as PayPal will not cover the item with insurance if the two addresses are different or if both are wrong. That would be in the case of someone emailing their seller and saying " Oh, BTW, I moved to Aspen CO this week and need the stuff sent there."
A good seller would not do this as it leaves them wide open for all kinds of fraud charges from an unscrupulous buyer.PayPal protects a seller up to $1000 per transaction ONLY if the address is confirmed.

golfmom

06-02-2005, 12:23 PM

BorderGal

06-02-2005, 12:29 PM

Isn't that frequently connected to one of the personality disorders ... flirtations with both genders? I can't remember, and don't have time to research it just yet but I could have sworn that I've heard that before. I'll check it out later today if I can.
Just jumping in here...I confess I've been lurking in this forum for a week or so but haven't felt I had anything to add. But if this guy isn't a "person of interest" then something is WRONG with the LE investigation. Tons of red flags, to say the least!

To all of you---great sleuthing! Can't believe those pics of the house....I would have been totally creeped out, NCBanker!

Anyway, I digress...my point in quoting this post was to comment that it reminds me of something in the Peterson case. Anybody remember that when Scott went to a gay bar, he expressed disappointment that nobody hit on him? I always thought that was downright WEIRD. Like he was so hung up on himself, he expected people of both genders to want him, whether he swung their way or not.

Jenifred

06-02-2005, 12:31 PM

Trust me, I wasn't expecting Janet's family or their friends to curse Raven at her funeral. But I do KNOW that her family (at least the extended portion) were not fond of him. I was surprised by the somewhat loving tributes to Raven, especially by Janet's former teammates, in the eulogies.Do you thnk that they really knew him other than the time he had spent at school? I mean he was pretty outgoing and flashy.

And maybe people "felt" like they needed to add Raven into their tributes to Janet. They were together for, what, 8 years?

golfmom

06-02-2005, 12:37 PM

Anyway, I digress...my point in quoting this post was to comment that it reminds me of something in the Peterson case. Anybody remember that when Scott went to a gay bar, he expressed disappointment that nobody hit on him? I always thought that was downright WEIRD. Like he was so hung up on himself, he expected people of both genders to want him, whether he swung their way or not.

Very interesting observation!

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 12:38 PM

lostmyjobsales (http://contact.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ReturnUserEmail&requested=lostmyjobsales&frm=2624)(private) (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=lostmyjobsales) 4 years 5 months NC, United States

Check out the FB- had intensive activity for a 12 month period, over 200 transactions, then nothing since.
HMMM.GREAT find, ThinkofLaura!!! His user ID history virtually proves it:

User IDEffective DateEnd Date
lostmyjobsalesJan-19-05Present
futbalrguyNov-15-03Jan-19-05
dc-friendMar-14-01Nov-15-03
dc-ravenJan-04-01Mar-14-01
*******@ravenstree.comDec-17-00Jan-04-01

I don't know how you found this but good sleuthing!! :)

golfmom

06-02-2005, 12:42 PM

ThinkofLaura, would it be appropriate for us to contact Ebay and let them know that the person who owns this account has been charged with 5 counts of felony embezzlement of merchandise?

NCBanker

06-02-2005, 12:44 PM

Thanks - I needed a good laugh!

PS- I believed you last night. I think some people were not online and didn't keep reading to find answers to the questions which were asked then answered. :) You did an excellent job!! Now, go back, leave some flowers from WS, and try on those shoes!!! :laugh:

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 12:57 PM

What am I missing? Could he just have had this account for purchasing only? Sure looks like his kind of activity.

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=samuel_peter&item=-1&frompage=222

Looks like purchasing books; computer stuff; mountain bike stuff?; snowboard stuff?

Most people living in Utah would probably be interested in mountain bikes and snowboards this past winter, don't ya think? Computer stuff and books, universal.
BTW, I don't think Raven OWNED a book of his own, just my own viewpoint of his shallowness when it comes to things cerebral.

The sticking point is in the CONTACT INFO.
As I said, your contact info HAS to be correct.
Samuel_ Peter lives in Utah.
You can find this out by doing an " Advanced Search" and " find a member" by typing in his User ID.
It gives the state of residence.
Raven has NOT lived in Utah for several years. And there's no logical reason to pay shipping twice on mountain bikes and snowboards to get them to his residence in NC, where they most likely would not have as much use. NC seems to equal trucks, LOL.

There is NO selling history on the account going back to the very first. Since he has very good established FB on the Lostmyjobsales User ID , it is logical that he used that eBay User ID to buy. Sellers are a lot easier to deal with when they have a buyer with glowingly perfect FB. I promise I would not say this if I had not just lived through it.

Here's the info from eBay:

samuel_peter ( 21) 3 years 7 months UT, United States

golfmom

06-02-2005, 01:00 PM

Here's the info from eBay:

samuel_peter ( 21) 3 years 7 months UT, United States

:blowkiss:

Thank you so much! You made it so understandable for me.

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 01:03 PM

ThinkofLaura, would it be appropriate for us to contact Ebay and let them know that the person who owns this account has been charged with 5 counts of felony embezzlement of merchandise?

I think it would be more appropriate to contact LE working on his cases in Durham and let them deal with it.. IF they know there is public pressure on them, they should do the right thing and contact eBay for his transaction records.

I doubt the money grubbers at eBay would care. Apparently the fraudulent sales of trademarked merchandise ( which eBay prosecutes to the fullest extent of the law, BTW) slipped under their radar, meaning that no one reported him to eBay at the time.
Since neither you nor I were his transaction partners, we can't do anything.

Also, because the sales are over 30 das old, we have no way to know the item number, etc. It would be futile to contact eBay but not LE in Duham. IMO.
It helps establish their case against him, just like the BLOG entries and so forth do with the " lost my computer" excuse after Janet's murder.

Funny, computer activity gets him caught every time.

BTW, when are we going to start looking on dating sites? I bet you he's on at least one national one. He would be EASY to find.. 25 year old Mormon.

golfmom

06-02-2005, 01:05 PM

BTW, when are we going to start looking on dating sites? I bet you he's on at least one national one. He would be EASY to find.. 25 year old Mormon.

You know how we were chatting that we felt like we were missing something big .... maybe that's it!

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 01:08 PM

I think I found one additional ebay identity, not marked as affliated with the other ones for some reason. I'm technically deficient and don't know how to make a screenshot, sorry.

Anyhow, the ebay name is dcraven (no hyphen like the other one) and it's out of NC also. Lots of activity from 99 onward, right up to May 30 even. Looks like lots of car parts and what not.

Not sure if this will work, but here is link to that profile: dcraven ebay profile (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=dcraven&item=-1&frompage=222)Geez, I hope this isn't him since whomever this is was leaving feedback on April 27th. But I keep thinking - what are the chances that two people from NC are named dcraven, one with a hyphen, one without, (unless that's why our guy used a hyphen in the first place). Were all of Raven's ID profiles private? If so, I imagine that this one would be also.

It's strange - there is a warning on e-bay to seriously consider whether or not you really want to make your feedback private because of the potential affect it could have on you as a buyer/seller if others can't view that feedback. They make it clear that you should only elect to make it private if there is a very real reason to do so. Some opt to do it when they have a lot of negative feedback, which he doesn't seem to have. Others do it when they are selling risque or otherwise questionable merchandise or if they are protecting the identity of their buyers, (in the event of an extremely valuable item or something of very high collectibility). I imagine one might also do it if they are selling stolen merchandise (but that's just my opinion).

This is the way it was when I used to buy at e-bay. It might not be this way anymore but back then, there wasn't a chance that I would have chosen to make my feedback private. Oh, and BTW, that is an option that you have to select ... the default on e-bay is public feedback, (at least back a year or so ago when I was using it).

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 01:13 PM

I think you're right...I just assumed that it was a pair of men's shoes...but they look too narrow to be men's shoes...
At the same time, look at their length compared to the 409 bottle. Don't they seem bigger than a women's 8.5?

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 01:14 PM

Also, eBay does not like it at all when a person has 2 eBay IDs. I think it's OK if all you do is BUY, but if you SELL, then there's a potential for shill bidding.But if one is computer-savvy, they could probably find a way to have numerous accounts at the same time without anyone being the wiser.

golfmom

06-02-2005, 01:18 PM

I imagine one might also do it if they are selling stolen merchandise (but that's just my opinion).

This is the way it was when I used to buy at e-bay. It might not be this way anymore but back then, there wasn't a chance that I would have chosen to make my feedback private. Oh, and BTW, that is an option that you have to select ... the default on e-bay is public feedback, (at least back a year or so ago when I was using it).

I think you're right on this one, just imagine there was a glowing description of the item received by the buyer in feedback. Kind of hard to hide that. BTW, I passed the information on to someone I feel will make sure that the District Attorney in the embezzlement case gets the ebay info.

Jenifred

06-02-2005, 01:32 PM

I've been trying to track down the actual soccer game -- I believe, and this is without tracking back to look, that MissYouJanet said he left the house about 7:30 PM and returned about 10:30 PM. If that's the case, I'm going to assume a playing time of one hour, another hour or so to account for warmup, possible late start, chatting, change afterwood, which leaves the last hour for r/t of 30 mins each way. Within those parameters, I tried to look for a league that had a game that fit the timeframe.

I first found the North Carolina Adult Soccer Assn, of which his friend, Daruis Ejlali, is President. NCASA (http://www.ncsoccer.org/ncasa/English.htm)

From there, I looked at the links of clubs/leagues that were in the geographic area that made sense timewise. You can view this info on the "Where to Play" link at top of homepage. Once looking at the different areas and deciding which made sense geographically, I then looked at each club/league to see whether any played the night of the murder. The only one I found is TASL (http://www.triangleadultsoccer.org/). If you go to schedule, you will see the Coed Section C plays on Tuesday nights. There were two games (so 4 teams) that had a game at 8:30 PM on that night, which fits. I wish I could confirm one way or the other, but this is the best I could come up with.
I've been told that he might have played with a Spanish League. I've only looked at the one with the web site and can't seem to find anything. Maybe one of the "magicians" can help me check on this.

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 01:32 PM

GREAT find, ThinkofLaura!!! His user ID history virtually proves it:

User IDEffective DateEnd Date
lostmyjobsalesJan-19-05Present
futbalrguyNov-15-03Jan-19-05
dc-friendMar-14-01Nov-15-03
dc-ravenJan-04-01Mar-14-01
*******@ravenstree.comDec-17-00Jan-04-01

I don't know how you found this but good sleuthing!! :)
If ThinkofLaura is right about keeping your main addresses up to date then perhaps raven had so many id's because he moved back to Utah. I have found info that he did live in Utah while he and Janet were married and she went back to school... timeline seems to fit with these user profiles.

misterallgood

06-02-2005, 01:33 PM

Folks, a church group went in to clean the house after the police released it from being a crime scene. It could be that Raven has only been back once if at all since the murder. He may not have even been the one to leave the shoes outside, or the desk.

It's been over a month now since the murder, and no arrest yet. To me, the most important thing right now is the evidence gathered to point toward a suspect. If the shoes mattered to LE, they wouldn't have been out there.

We've established here fairly conclusively that there's a lot about Raven that would make most of us think he's the obvious suspect -- he fits a certain mold almost perfectly; materialistic, narcissistic, arrogant, shallow, aggressive, controlling, a philanderer -- yet none of that has brought him into police custody.

So let's ask again; why are the cops holding back? What's missing that they would need to bring Raven or anyone else in? Is there good investigating going on, or good lawyering on Raven's end?

Here are some important questions to me right now; I still am not clear on the soccer game that night -- where it was, what time, and when he logically would have been home from it. I would like to know a lot more about his infidelities. I want to know about insurance, as well -- life insurance. Especially; is there a policy on Kaiden? I'd love to know what he told police about his activities that night. I'd like to know if he's still in communication with the police. If there are other viable suspects, I most certainly am curious about who they might be. To me, this is the important stuff.

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 01:34 PM

Most people living in Utah would probably be interested in mountain bikes and snowboards this past winter, don't ya think? Computer stuff and books, universal.
BTW, I don't think Raven OWNED a book of his own, just my own viewpoint of his shallowness when it comes to things cerebral.

The sticking point is in the CONTACT INFO.
As I said, your contact info HAS to be correct.
Samuel_ Peter lives in Utah.
You can find this out by doing an " Advanced Search" and " find a member" by typing in his User ID.
It gives the state of residence.
Raven has NOT lived in Utah for several years. And there's no logical reason to pay shipping twice on mountain bikes and snowboards to get them to his residence in NC, where they most likely would not have as much use. NC seems to equal trucks, LOL.

There is NO selling history on the account going back to the very first. Since he has very good established FB on the Lostmyjobsales User ID , it is logical that he used that eBay User ID to buy. Sellers are a lot easier to deal with when they have a buyer with glowingly perfect FB. I promise I would not say this if I had not just lived through it.

Here's the info from eBay:

samuel_peter ( 21) 3 years 7 months UT, United States
this info could be one of his brothers, too.... family members sometimes share accounts. Maybe not though...

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 01:40 PM

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 01:41 PM

But if one is computer-savvy, they could probably find a way to have numerous accounts at the same time without anyone being the wiser.yeah especially if you log in from two different computers.
I would think Raven would have items shipped to and from some other state so it would look like real orders if his work was trying to track him. Maybe one of his friends in Utah was in on this??

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 01:47 PM

yeah especially if you log in from two different computers.
I would think Raven would have items shipped to and from some other state so it would look like real orders if his work was trying to track him. Maybe one of his friends in Utah was in on this??

For a mountain bike and a snowboard?
I don't understand your reasoning behind this.

BTW, you DO understand that this Samuel_Peters only has a total of 21 transactions, right?? And NONE as a seller?
There is only a total of 21 total transactions. NOT high activity at all.

I'm sorry but I traced back this person's activity and I see no connection to Raven. A relative is possible, sure.

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 01:48 PM

For a mountain bike and a snowboard?
I don't understand your reasoning behind this.Think about it. eBay purchases are tracked. He's stealing THOUSANDS of dollars in product and probably making back twice as much. Do you think he's gonna care about some shipping charges? He probably wrote those off too. He has family in utah... maybe he had stuff shipped to a person there and then that person shipped them to Raven directly or to a buyer.
I buy on eBay, I know lots of little tricks of some sellers, too... many people buy things from antoher seller and then resell them for more.

golfmom

06-02-2005, 01:50 PM

I put it as unconfirmed on our timeline thread.

cappuccina

06-02-2005, 01:51 PM

...that they are hung up on evidence somewhere...(my instincts, and my familiarity with State crime labs...)...I am just speculating that either:

1. They cannot find some piece of "key" evidence they know they need (like blood spattered clothing, or a soccer uniform, or the murder weapon, for that matter, for example); or

2. There is, for some reason, a significant lack of trace evidence....Now with blood spattering all over the place, including the walls, this should not be...

3. (...and this is unfortunately more common than is realized...)...they blew the evidence collection/processing (which is also what I think happened in the Ramsey case, when the "chain of custody" was blown when they let all those people into the house, and when White and Ramsey were allowed to find the child's body in the basement)...

We don't know that Raven or someone else did not contaminate/remove things from the crime scene...we do not know if anyone else (in addition to the perp.) got in there before police came....we do not know if they realized that they botched evidence collection (for example blood samples being rendered unuseable), or it the "chain of custody" was blown (like in my example above....I'm inclined to believe that the chain of custody may have been blown, and that they may also be missing some key pieces of evidence....Now, the chain of custody thing is more serious because it renders the evidence and any conclusions drwn from it unusable/inadmissable in court...

NCBanker, what is the track record of the crime labs down there? I've heard mixed things about LE....also that the crime labs are extremely backlogged....

I am just speculating on all of this, of course...

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 01:56 PM

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 01:56 PM

JerseyGirl, there is nothing to suggest that anyone other than lostmyjobsales is Raven. Golfmom posted the ID history for that one account and it included FootBallerGuy. ( however he spelled it).
Even had a name going back to Ravenstree.com
I realize that now. I just try to answer things as I think of them because if I wait until I get to the end of the thread, I'll probably forget what I wanted to say! lol. You guys have simply sleuthed faster than I've been able to catch up since yesterday. :)

I don't think Raven bought, I think Raven SOLD. These people didn't have the money for rent... I can't see him buying books in Feb. JMHO.
I guess that could depend on what the books are about. :innocent: If Raven knew how to sell on that site, he probably also knew how to buy. (I know quite a few people that have sold on e-bay, and every one of them started out as buyers.) Anyway, I believe that if Raven had seen something that he wanted on e-bay, he would have bought it.

Finally, I don't think that the lack of rent money was EVER a big factor in Raven's decisions. If it had been, he would have sold some of this toys. I'm not sure what kind of credit card debt or loan debt, etc., they had but if Janet was working, and someone else was paying their rent, where was Janet's paycheck going? I'm sure that they could have sprung for a couple of books - especially in February. That was, after all, the first of their three months of free rent, wasn't it?

P.S. My wording is bad this afternoon ... please forgive me, ToL, if this post sounds off. :blowkiss:

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 01:57 PM

Raven could've bought a book on how to commit a perfect crime~ :waitasec:

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 01:58 PM

Think about it. eBay purchases are tracked. He's stealing THOUSANDS of dollars in product and probably making back twice as much. Do you think he's gonna care about some shipping charges? He probably wrote those off too. He has family in utah... maybe he had stuff shipped to a person there and then that person shipped them to Raven directly or to a buyer.
I buy on eBay, I know lots of little tricks of some sellers, too... many people buy things from antoher seller and then resell them for more.

First of all, I think most people are on eBay. Secondly, the max bid is different for most of us. I make certain that the things I sell start out at the price I want for them and watch them go higher from there. I've never taken a loss.. In fact, I made $500 on a suitcase I bought for $5. I knew what it was, the charity shop which sold it to me didn't.
They were happy to have their $5, so everything is relative.

No, I'm sorry, but I don't follow your reasoning at all. about this Samuel_ Peter. More than likely, it is the first names of a person living in Utah.

The FRAUD and this eBay account are totally separate, PRM. NOTHING dovetails into the merchandise fraud.
I found the account Raven used for the fraudulent sales using a unique method my husband developed. I was also able to check Samuel_ Peter in the same way and am convinced that the SP account is NOT Raven.

It would be very expensive to pay the seller to have things shipped to Utah, then to pay the person in Utah to ship them to NC.
AND YES, I think he cares about shipping charges. This is a guy who remembers what his mother had to spend on him in the 4th grade!!!

These were obviously LEGITIMATE sales. There would be NO reason to try to hide it. I think the reasoning behind this is flawed.

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 01:59 PM

Raven (from his resume)
personal data:

- Currently living in Fredericksburg, VA (since Oct. 99)
- Lived in Utah for 4 years
- Lived in San Diego, CA for 13 years
- Step-Father- Electrician
- Mother- Technology Sales
- 4 Sisters, 4 Brothers

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 02:00 PM

Raven could've bought a book on how to commit a perfect crime~ :waitasec:

It's called " Hitman", published by Palladin Press. :)
Truly chilling methods of murdering.. it really is a guideboosk to murder, however, I doubt anyone would leave an e trail behind, LOLOL.

The sick part of me wants to say he bought a new Henkle knife set..

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 02:01 PM

First of all, I think most people are on eBay. Secondly, the max bid is different for most of us. I make certain that the things I sell start out at the price I want for them and watch them go higher from there. I've never taken a loss.. In fact, I made $500 on a suitcase I bought for $5. I knew what it was, the charity shop which sold it to me didn't.
They were happy to have their $5, so everything is relative.

No, I'm sorry, but I don't follow your reasoning at all. about this Samuel_ Peter. More than likely, it is the first names of a person living in Utah.

The FRAUD and this eBay account are totally separate, PRM. NOTHING dovetails into the merchandise fraud.
I found the account Raven used for the fraudulent sales using a unique method my husband developed. I was also able to check Samuel_ Peter in the same way and am convinced that the SP account is NOT Raven.

It would be very expensive to pay the seller to have things shipped to Utah, then to pay the person in Utah to ship them to NC.
AND YES, I think he cares about shipping charges. This is a guy who remembers what his mother had to spend on him in the 4th grade!!!

These were obviously LEGITIMATE sales. There would be NO reason to try to hide it. I think the reasoning behind this is flawed.
whatever.... have your opinions, I'll have mine.
And most people ARE NOT on ebay... just internet savvy people who have an interest in buying or selling or running their own business. No one in my family of 12+ has an ebay account but me. That's like saying everyone owns a computer. Poor people might not but apparently raven would pay for his internet access over forking out dough for his own rent!

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 02:02 PM

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:12 PM

The last purchases made by this SamuelPeter were made this year, in Feb. and in May. 2 were for Apple Computer parts. My husband has bought Apple computer add ons, and he is certainly not guilty of any crime.

I really don't see anything which ties Raven to this account. Also, there is NO selling that I can see. If Raven needed to dump the soccer stuff, he would have used as many eBay outlets ( screen names ) as he could.

Another thing: Your contact info must be kept up to date. They will throw you off eBay in a heartbeat if they cannot verify your contact info. ( Happened to a friend of mine who was buying under one account name and selling under another name. She got caught after 5 years because her address on eBay and her address on PayPal didn't match. She gave a NYC address for the fake name, while she has always lived in CA).
Raven was not living in Utah in either Feb. or May. A seller gets a message from eBay saying where the person lives based upon the info in their account.
Same goes for PayPal, which most eBayers use. The PayPal info HAS to be corect, otherwise someone else is going to get the item bought. People report the discrepencies, as PayPal will not cover the item with insurance if the two addresses are different or if both are wrong. That would be in the case of someone emailing their seller and saying " Oh, BTW, I moved to Aspen CO this week and need the stuff sent there."
A good seller would not do this as it leaves them wide open for all kinds of fraud charges from an unscrupulous buyer.PayPal protects a seller up to $1000 per transaction ONLY if the address is confirmed.
I completely see what you're saying but I've had a lot of past experience with e-bay as well, and I did not have the experiences you've mentioned above. I've had things sent to different addresses, no problem. Also, in the YEARS that I've been a member of e-bay, I don't recall EVER being asked to verify or update my account information. About PayPal, not all members use it. I would think that cash or money order only is how a thief would want to be paid for stolen merchandise. And if the other accounts were, indeed, set up to sell stolen merchandise, SamuelPeter from Utah could be his original account that he used to use to legitimately buy things.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:16 PM

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:18 PM

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:21 PM

BTW, I don't think Raven OWNED a book of his own, just my own viewpoint of his shallowness when it comes to things cerebral.
But he did buy Janet a couple of "coffee table books" for Christmas. And he's pretty into computers. And he's pretty into the Indian ancestry. And he might have been interested in creating the perfect crime or hiring the right attorney, etc.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:26 PM

The sticking point is in the CONTACT INFO.
As I said, your contact info HAS to be correct.
ToL, please don't think I'm being argumentative but what you're saying is not absolutely correct. If you're selling, the buyer doesn't need to know anymore than how to pay you. And if you're buying, all it takes is a simple e-mail to tell the seller the shipping address. I've done it repeatedly when buying stuff but sending it to family and friends out of town. All I've said is that I'm purchasing it but sending it to my niece's house, and can they please send it to this address, and I've never once had them say no, even though the address isn't even in the same state as my PayPal account from which I'm paying them. The seller has the option to refuse to send it to anything other than a verified address but I've yet to run into one that has.

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 02:28 PM

But he did buy Janet a couple of "coffee table books" for Christmas. And he's pretty into computers. And he's pretty into the Indian ancestry. And he might have been interested in creating the perfect crime or hiring the right attorney, etc.
yeah I think he owns books or at least reads ... on his blogger profile he listed this

"
Favorite Books

Da Vinci Code (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Da+Vinci+Code)
Jesus the Christ (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Jesus+the+Christ)
Touching the Void (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Touching+the+Void)
Eiger Dreams (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Eiger+Dreams)
Into Thin Air (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Into+Thin+Air)
Into the Wild (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Into+the+Wild)
The Purple Sage (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=The+Purple+Sage)
"

Also, more info on siblings:
"My mother was left to care for 4 children under the age of six. "

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 02:29 PM

ToL, please don't think I'm being argumentative but what you're saying is not absolutely correct. If you're selling, they buyer doesn't need to know anymore than how to pay you. And if you're buying, all it takes is a simple e-mail to tell the seller the shipping address. I've done it repeatedly when buying stuff but sending it to family and friends out of town. All I've said is that I'm purchasing it but sending it to my niece's house, and can they please send it to this address, and I've never once had them say no, even though the address isn't even in the same state as my PayPal account from which I'm paying them. The seller has the option to refuse to send it to anything other than a verified address but I've yet to run into one that has.
true, when i buy things -- and I buy everything from collectibles to baseball cards to makeup -- I don't bother to check where the seller is from... I just pay them through paypal and wait for my package.
I could care less where they live as long as I get my stuff :)

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:31 PM

I think you're right on this one, just imagine there was a glowing description of the item received by the buyer in feedback. Kind of hard to hide that. BTW, I passed the information on to someone I feel will make sure that the District Attorney in the embezzlement case gets the ebay info.I don't know if it would be an issue of the buyer describing the item in the feedback although it certainly could be a factor in his decision to make his f/b private. I'm just thinking that he tried to keep all of his sales as hidden as he possibly could, and that's the best that e-bay has to offer in that sense.

BTW, I'm very happy to hear that you've passed along the info. Thank you for making sure it got done. :)

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:34 PM

If ThinkofLaura is right about keeping your main addresses up to date then perhaps raven had so many id's because he moved back to Utah.You can change your address, etc., while still keeping your same User ID, (name), and vice-versa.

less0305

06-02-2005, 02:35 PM

Yes, those could be ladies 8.5 narrow width. Would fit with Janet's size.

I still think the desk has been BROKEN not dismantled.

This was pages and pages back, and someone else may have had some thoughts on the broken desk that I didn't get to, but I know that when we moved one of those computer desks around without unscrewing or actually taking it apart, it kind of began breaking apart. So we just said, "Screw it".....and dragged it out of the house while it broke up along the way. We didn't want to take the time to unscrew all the screws and such, so started moving it out in one piece and it started breaking up. That's my guess. He was moving it out and it started breaking apart, so he or whoever just continued to pull it apart and bring it out in pieces.

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 02:35 PM

I don't know if it would be an issue of the buyer describing the item in the feedback although it certainly could be a factor in his decision to make his f/b private. I'm just thinking that he tried to keep all of his sales as hidden as he possibly could, and that's the best that e-bay has to offer in that sense.

BTW, I'm very happy to hear that you've passed along the info. Thank you for making sure it got done. :)
I'm really curious about the feedback being private too... people like me who are buyers like to read what other people post about the seller so we know if we should trust the person to ship the items we buy in a timely and professional manner.

I tend to think that he kept his feedback private due to what you posted... considering he was more than likely selling stolen goods, he's want to keep all the feedback private. People who steal tend to be paranoid that they might get caught. Sometimes theives overcompensate for their crimes....

golfmom

06-02-2005, 02:37 PM

1. There are only slight differences in the men's and women's Vapor.

2. These shoes are very narrow. Not only are they are narrow, but the sole is very flexible and has no rigidity to it. You can literally bend these things in half. Just because they look narrow doesn't make them a woman's shoe.

3. Also, the chrome version was a limited edition version (SURPRISE!) that Nike put out because Ronaldo (famous Brazilian soccer player) wore them in competition and after that everybody had to have them.

4. Ugly soccer shoes are to make you stand out in front of scouts. Flashy is what soccer shoes are about.

5. It is actually guys who mostly buy these ugly soccer shoes. It is a soccer thing.

KT Can

06-02-2005, 02:41 PM

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:43 PM

... what is the track record of the crime labs down there? I've heard mixed things about LE....also that the crime labs are extremely backlogged....I remember that being mentioned on this thread so maybe that's a big part of it. I'm really hoping that they're just trying to get all of their ducks in a row, and that they didn't botch the crime scene! I don't even want to think about that because then that would mean that Janet's murderer might never feel the consequences of taking her life.

How long was it before Scott Peterson was arrested? And what was the hold-up in that case? Was it that they hadn't found the bodies?

golfmom

06-02-2005, 02:44 PM

Hello to all. I am a long time lurker here but not a frequent poster. I have some catching up to do on Janet's case and would appreciate it if any of you could give me a link to the forum(s) that best explain the whole story. Thanks in advance!!!

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23793

Post #7 links Misterallgood's blogs. That's the best place to start.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:45 PM

Raven could've bought a book on how to commit a perfect crime~ :waitasec:lol - I ended up posting this in one of my posts before seeing this! Sorry again! :doh:

He could also have bought books on how to write a resume, how to interview for a new job, etc.

golfmom

06-02-2005, 02:50 PM

lol - I ended up posting this in one of my posts before seeing this! Sorry again! :doh:

He could also have bought books on how to write a resume, how to interview for a new job, etc.

He was also going to *school* for IT stuff. Could have been books related to that subject.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:50 PM

These were obviously LEGITIMATE sales. There would be NO reason to try to hide it. I think the reasoning behind this is flawed.
I'm wondering if this could have been his very first e-bay account. One that he would have opened at a time when he WAS living in Utah, and that he bought and sold whatever he did completely legitimately. And then later he opened the new accounts that all link to Raven. It probably doesn't matter one way or the other except to show that he knows how to get around the rules. Otherwise, I don't see what difference it would make if Samuel Peter is Raven's or not.

golfmom

06-02-2005, 02:51 PM

I'm wondering if this could have been his very first e-bay account. One that he would have opened at a time when he WAS living in Utah, and that he bought and sold whatever he did completely legitimately. And then later he opened the new accounts that all link to Raven. It probably doesn't matter one way or the other except to show that he knows how to get around the rules. Otherwise, I don't see what difference it would make if Samuel Peter is Raven's or not.

I see a significance if he's using that name as an alias!

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:53 PM

It's called " Hitman", published by Palladin Press. :)
Truly chilling methods of murdering.. it really is a guideboosk to murder, however, I doubt anyone would leave an e trail behind, LOLOL.

The sick part of me wants to say he bought a new Henkle knife set..Your post just made me think of something. Didn't he do all kinds of VX touring, game playing , etc., traveling to different remote locations in the area? (I can't remember what it's called - help me out, golfmom!) It seems to me that if anyone would know the best place to hide things, (knives, clothes, etc.), it would be Raven and his VX buddies. That's the nature of that club he was in, isn't it?

golfmom

06-02-2005, 02:54 PM

Your post just made me think of something. Didn't he do all kinds of VX touring, game playing , etc., traveling to different remote locations in the area? (I can't remember what it's called - help me out, golfmom!) It seems to me that if anyone would know the best place to hide things, (knives, clothes, etc.), it would be Raven and his VX buddies. That's the nature of that club he was in, isn't it?

geo something or another.

GEOCACHING posted as pocketpcguy

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 02:55 PM

I remember that being mentioned on this thread so maybe that's a big part of it. I really hoping that they're just trying to get all of their ducks in a row, and that they didn't botch the crime scene! I don't even want to think about that because then that would mean that Janet's murderer might never feel the consequences of taking her life.

How long was it before Scott Peterson was arrested? And what was the hold-up in that case? Was it that they hadn't found the bodies?yep, lack of bodies... Laci's and Conner's :(
Same with Mark Hacking

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 02:58 PM

yeah I think he owns books or at least reads ... on his blogger profile he listed this

"
Favorite Books

Da Vinci Code (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Da+Vinci+Code)
Jesus the Christ (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Jesus+the+Christ)
Touching the Void (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Touching+the+Void)
Eiger Dreams (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Eiger+Dreams)
Into Thin Air (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Into+Thin+Air)
Into the Wild (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=Into+the+Wild)
The Purple Sage (http://www.blogger.com/profile-find.g?t=b&q=The+Purple+Sage)
I had forgotten about these, PFM. You're right. So it's safe to assume that Raven does, indeed, read books. And being out of work with at least 3 months of free rent, what better time to order some books and catch up on some reading? Especially if they were to create resumes and such.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 03:02 PM

true, when i buy things -- and I buy everything from collectibles to baseball cards to makeup -- I don't bother to check where the seller is from... I just pay them through paypal and wait for my package.
I could care less where they live as long as I get my stuff :)Exactly. As a seller, his address information matters not at all if he's being paid through PayPal. And since I doubt that he would take payment through PayPal for stolen merchandise, he could tell the buyer to send the payment to whatever address he chooses. E-bay would have no idea, and they certainly wouldn't give a buyer your home address, (except possibly under certain circumstances).

Anyway, my guess would be that someone selling stolen merchandise would accept cash or money order to a P.O. Box. Didn't Raven have a few of those over the years?

golfmom

06-02-2005, 03:04 PM

Anyway, my guess would be that someone selling stolen merchandise would accept cash or money order to a P.O. Box. Didn't Raven have a few of those over the years?

Mr. AG posted a p.o. box for one of Raven's websites with the name listed as S. Peters

golfmom

06-02-2005, 03:07 PM

WHOIS information for pocketpcguy.com:

[whois.namesecure.com]
Registrant:
Samuel Peters
RTeSolutions.com
PO Box 1603
Hillsborough, NC 27278
US

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 03:10 PM

I see a significance if he's using that name as an alias!Yes, I agree ... for stuff like that, it is interesting and helps to identify patterns at least. I just mean that in terms of what he bought or sold from that User ID, it probably wouldn't matter in terms of the embezzlement because it doesn't seem that that name had too many transactions.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 03:14 PM

yep, lack of bodies... Laci's and Conner's :(
Same with Mark HackingMy brain is fried this week. Can anyone think of cases in which the spouse was eventually arrested and charged after a seemingly long time? If so, what is it that usually causes this kind of delay if he is a POI? Is it simply that evidence isn't back? I'm not even explaining it well. Assume that Raven is currently a POI. What are the most likely reasons that LE wouldn't have arrested him already? In spousal murders, is it common that it would take this long before an arrest is made or is this month that's gone by out of the ordinary?

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 03:16 PM

Mr. AG posted a p.o. box for one of Raven's websites with the name listed as S. PetersI wonder if he had any during the flurry of e-bay activity.

KT Can

06-02-2005, 03:19 PM

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23793

Post #7 links Misterallgood's blogs. That's the best place to start.

Thanks golfmom!!!!

ewwwinteresting

06-02-2005, 03:29 PM

My brain is fried this week. Can anyone think of cases in which the spouse was eventually arrested and charged after a seemingly long time? If so, what is it that usually causes this kind of delay if he is a POI? Is it simply that evidence isn't back? I'm not even explaining it well. Assume that Raven is currently a POI. What are the most likely reasons that LE wouldn't have arrested him already? In spousal murders, is it common that it would take this long before an arrest is made or is this month that's gone by out of the ordinary?
The other thing I would like to know is the statistics on how many cases that a wife was stabbed, the husband ended up being the murderer...is there somewhere we can find this information?

ewwwinteresting

06-02-2005, 03:35 PM

Some info about him and his family...

From 2001, he posted this on his resume:
http://web.archive.org/web/20020202121142/www.ravenstree.com/soccer_profile.htm

Extracurricular activities:
- Mountain Biking, Rock Climbing, Hiking, Camping, Snow Boarding, Running

Personal data:
- Currently living in Fredericksburg, VA (since Aug. 2000)
- Lived in Utah for 4 years
- Lived in San Diego, CA for 13 years
Ok, so Raven was born in October 1979:

1979 to 1993 Lived in numerous places in San Diego (since he stated he moved around alot)

1993 to 1997 Lived in Utah (18 years old)
10798 Heather Ridge Road, Sandy, Utah

1997 to ? Lived in Virginia (attending college)

Seemed to have moved around in the Virginia and DC area and then NC
So, I need help with the rest. Can we start a thread with addresses of Raven Abaroa?

NCBanker

06-02-2005, 03:40 PM

Well being that one of my cousins is in management over the crime lab for the SBI, I'd like to think that they do a superb job. I've not heard otherwise.

...that they are hung up on evidence somewhere...(my instincts, and my familiarity with State crime labs...)...I am just speculating that either:

1. They cannot find some piece of "key" evidence they know they need (like blood spattered clothing, or a soccer uniform, or the murder weapon, for that matter, for example); or

2. There is, for some reason, a significant lack of trace evidence....Now with blood spattering all over the place, including the walls, this should not be...

3. (...and this is unfortunately more common than is realized...)...they blew the evidence collection/processing (which is also what I think happened in the Ramsey case, when the "chain of custody" was blown when they let all those people into the house, and when White and Ramsey were allowed to find the child's body in the basement)...

We don't know that Raven or someone else did not contaminate/remove things from the crime scene...we do not know if anyone else (in addition to the perp.) got in there before police came....we do not know if they realized that they botched evidence collection (for example blood samples being rendered unuseable), or it the "chain of custody" was blown (like in my example above....I'm inclined to believe that the chain of custody may have been blown, and that they may also be missing some key pieces of evidence....Now, the chain of custody thing is more serious because it renders the evidence and any conclusions drwn from it unusable/inadmissable in court...

NCBanker, what is the track record of the crime labs down there? I've heard mixed things about LE....also that the crime labs are extremely backlogged....

I am just speculating on all of this, of course...

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 03:43 PM

Ok, so Raven was born in October 1979:

1979 to 1993 Lived in numerous places in San Diego (since he stated he moved around alot)

1993 to 1997 Lived in Utah (18 years old)
10798 Heather Ridge Road, Sandy, Utah

1998 to ? Lived in Virginia (attending college)

Seemed to have moved around in the Virginia and DC area and then NC
So, I need help with the rest. Can we start a thread with addresses of Raven Abaroa?Ok, I think it may go something like this:

1979 to 1994 Lived in numerous places in San Diego (since he stated he moved around alot....

1994 to 1998 Lived in Utah (18 years old)
10798 Heather Ridge Road, Sandy, Utah

Fall 1998 to August 2000 Lived at College in Buena Vista, Virginia(attending college for 2 years, dropped out?)

Lived in Fredericksburg, VA (since Aug. 2000)

Sometime in late 2001/early 2002 moved back to Utah

2003 Moved to NC

was he born in 1979 or 1980??

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 03:45 PM

Can we start a thread with addresses of Raven Abaroa?To start a new thread, just click the forum link above that says "Janet Abaroa, Durham, NC", and when the new page comes up, click the button that says "New Thread" on the top left of the thread list.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 03:48 PM

We were doing some searches from Zabasearch.com last week, and just now when I went there, it says "You are not permitted to view this website from your present location." Does anyone know what this might be about or how I might be able to get in again?

PrayersForMaura

06-02-2005, 03:50 PM

ewwwinteresting

06-02-2005, 03:58 PM

To start a new thread, just click the forum link above that says "Janet Abaroa, Durham, NC", and when the new page comes up, click the button that says "New Thread" on the top left of the thread list.
Thank you:doh: I'll do some research and see what I can find.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 03:59 PM

are you logging in from work? They may block certain sites.Nope, same computer I used before.

SouthEastSleuth

06-02-2005, 04:00 PM

Hi everyone! Been lurking around for awhile and thought I'd chime in finally. I live in the triangle area of NC (area includes Raleigh, Durham, and Chapel Hill, and the vicinity). I've done a little digging, and I'm fairly certain that Janet and Raven only moved to Durham sometime in 2004. I found property tax listings (even though they rented housing, in NC, maybe elsewhere, you pay property tax on vehicles as well. As you can below, last year there was a listing for Janet, not Raven, in Orange County. Orange is the adjacent county to Durham, and is also the location where they both worked at Eurosport. This tax year there were listings for both Janet and Raven, in Durham County. As in Orange, one listing for Janet (according to the Orange site, an 2001 Acrua of some sort... Durham does not list the type of vehicle), and two listings for Raven. If you'll notice, Janet's Durham tax has been in paid in full. Raven's, at least currently, remain in arrears.

So, prior to this past year in Durham, I THINK they may have lived somewhere in Orange County, at least evidenced by the Orange tax listing for last year. Interestingly enough, there were NO Orange tax listings for Raven (and Lord knows, I tried every variation of his name that's ever been mentioned on here! :-)

Here's the referenced info for ORANGE COUNTY (last tax year):

Orange County, North Carolina
Tax Statement

Data is current as of 06/01/2005 at 11:46pm

ABAROA JANET MARIE

Bill Number: 2003123636Account Number: K70520Description: Registered Motor Vehicle 2001 ACURSpecial Code: Note:
Real Value$0.00City Tax$118.06Personal Value$17,230.00County Tax$180.053R OR STORMWATER FEE IS NOT A LIEN ON REAL PROPERTY3R Fee$0.00 Stormwater Fee$0.00 Vehicle Fee$20.00 Interest Due$0.00Rate Code21Total Due$318.11Last Payment Date03/02/2004 Payment$318.11Due Date03/01/2004Balance DuePAID IN FULL
Orange County Tax Collector
200 S. Cameron Street
P.O. Box 8181
Hillsborough, NC 27278

And here's the referenced material for DURHAM COUNTY (current tax year):

Displayed Data Current as of: 6/2/2005
Owner ID/ Account Number8263133Owner Name & AddressABAROA JANET MARIE
2606 FERRAND DR
DURHAM, NC 27705-1738
Tax YearReceipt NumberRate YearParcel Ref. NumberDate DueDate Last PaidTotal OwedCollected AmountAmount DueTax DistrictTaxable Value200443705302004PERSONAL03/01/200503/25/2005$212.88$212.88$0.001$15,140.00

Displayed Data Current as of: 6/2/2005
Owner ID/ Account Number8263296Owner Name & AddressABAROA RAVEN SAMUEL
2606 FERRAND DR
DURHAM, NC 27705-1738
Tax YearReceipt NumberRate YearParcel Ref. NumberDate DueDate Last PaidTotal OwedCollected AmountAmount DueTax DistrictTaxable Value200443706952004PERSONAL03/01/2005$41.13$0.00$41.131$2,530.00200443829412004PERS ONAL04/01/2005$132.59$0.00$132.591$8,670.00

ewwwinteresting

06-02-2005, 04:04 PM

If you'll notice, Janet's Durham tax has been in paid in full. Raven's, at least currently, remain in arrears.
NOW THAT'S A SURPRISE!;)

Welcome and great information.....thank you! So......do you think you could go to the court house and pull the court file for more info...???????? pretty please!!

ewwwinteresting

06-02-2005, 04:16 PM

was he born in 1979 or 1980??
His date of birth: 10-11-79

SouthEastSleuth

06-02-2005, 04:31 PM

Stumbled across one other reference to Raven's eBay usage, under the "futbalrguy" eBay user name. I was using some new search engine someone told me about and had a hit on that name on some weird site in the UK. I can't really tell the actual purpose of the site, but it seems to contain links and info to auctions at various sites, including eBay. When I tried to bring up the site that referenced futbalrguy, nada. BUT, there was a choice to bring up the "archived" copy. BINGO.

Looks like he was selling soccer "boots" (as I gather that is the correct terminology for cleats in the soccer world)... You'll also notice in the link the reference to Durham, NC as the location.

This is the "tag" at the bottom of the item listing:

**the following message appears on all futbalrguy (http://64.62.168.3/get?q=%2Bsite:www.aquanuke.com+%2B%22futbalrguy%22&d=20189562997#1002) boot sales**

Feel free to email me with any questions. Items come brand new or like new unless otherwise noted in the description. In most cases, a "Like New" item is one that was worn only once and returned or was tried on in an outdoors environment and so it has slight blemishes only visible at very close inspection. My auctions will comment on any visual blemishes of this kind. Additionally, no shoes ship in original box.

****I accept Paypal as my method of payment and ship anywhere in the US****

International Bidders please email for shipping quote/negotiation

- Interesting the line that "no shoes ship in original box." I wonder if that is due to the fact that the boxes may be labled or something as being from Eurosport? Just speculation.

- According to this, PayPal is indeed the payment method of choice.

- I actually found 6-7 of these particular auctions. All the same type of "boots", but in various sizes. All for sale around the 1st week of December 2004.

Here's the link to the site itself, FYI:

http://www.gigablast.com/get?q=%2Bsite:www.aquanuke.com+%2B%22futbalrguy%22&c=main&rtq=0&d=20189562997 (http://www.gigablast.com/get?q=%2Bsite:www.aquanuke.com+%2B%22futbalrguy%22&c=main&rtq=0&d=20189562997)

I realize as Mr. A pointed out earlier that at this point what we need are facts as they relate to that night, the murder, etc. But, I do feel like all of this superfluous information does serve a purpose, in that the more we dig, the clearer the picture of Raven becomes. Is it a portrait of a murderer? Who knows. All we can do now is speculate. But, we DO know it is a portrait of an embezzler. And we are fairly certain that the portrait is one of an adulterer. It's all pieces of the puzzle...

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 04:54 PM

I realize as Mr. A pointed out earlier that at this point what we need are facts as they relate to that night, the murder, etc. But, I do feel like all of this superfluous information does serve a purpose, in that the more we dig, the clearer the picture of Raven becomes. Is it a portrait of a murderer? Who knows. All we can do now is speculate. But, we DO know it is a portrait of an embezzler. And we are fairly certain that the portrait is one of an adulterer. It's all pieces of the puzzle...I agree, and thank you for your excellent sleuthing! Aren't these 6 or 7 auctions for the very same style of shoes that were left on the porch bench at Raven's house - the ones in NCBanker's photos?

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 04:56 PM

**the following message appears on all futbalrguy (http://64.62.168.3/get?q=%2Bsite:www.aquanuke.com+%2B%22futbalrguy%22&d=20189562997#1002) boot sales**

Feel free to email me with any questions. Items come brand new or like new unless otherwise noted in the description. In most cases, a "Like New" item is one that was worn only once and returned or was tried on in an outdoors environment and so it has slight blemishes only visible at very close inspection. My auctions will comment on any visual blemishes of this kind. Additionally, no shoes ship in original box.

****I accept Paypal as my method of payment and ship anywhere in the US****

International Bidders please email for shipping quote/negotiation

I also wonder why these shoes might have been tried on in an outdoors environment. Was he trying to sell them to his teammates at games, and e-bayed them once he couldn't sell them?

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 05:01 PM

I just realized that PayPal is now an e-bay company BUT it wasn't always that way. When did that happen?

SouthEastSleuth

06-02-2005, 05:07 PM

Yep. eBay bought PayPal a few years ago... It IS interesting that if he indeed was selling via eBay and then using PayPal for payments...I mean talk about leaving a blatant trail! As someone posted earlier, it would seem like he would have been doing his illicit business in cash and money orders!

SouthEastSleuth

06-02-2005, 05:21 PM

I know you guys have talked about Raven's computer, etc., a lot. But something occurs to me (that may very well be obvious to you guys)... his PDA usage.

-I remember reading a quote from him, as NC_VX, on the VS boards:

"So, sorry for the detailed story, anyway, I'm 23, married, and work for Hewlett-Packard. I do some consulting on the side and just started my own business, the website is called www.pocketPCguy.com and one day it will be up!!! I am somewhat of a guru when it comes to handhelds, go figure, I like toys! Look forward to working with all you and hopefully meeting you at a few rally's!"

-Then I remember reading that LE took a PDA adaptor or charger I think? But, no mention of the PDA itself, unless I'm mistaken.
-He worked in some capacity for HP apparantly. HP certainly makes PDAs.
- THEN, I was looking at the graduation pix that Tiffany posted in the media thread:

http://svu2.southernvirginia.edu/2003%20graduation/IMG_5571.JPG (http://svu2.southernvirginia.edu/2003%20graduation/IMG_5571.JPG)

Clearly in that pic, at Janet's graduation, Raven is carrying his PDA with him, in a case. (WHY would he need to have his PDA in-hand at her graduation???)

My point?

I realize we've seen a pic of him using a desktop at home, but, it's POSSIBLE that he does most of his online, internet, emailing, etc., with his PDA. Remember, these days a Palm Pilot, or any number of PDAs are far more than just address books. You can surf the net, email, do most anything you could do on your regular PC.

I say all of this, I suppose, as a point of reference to there being no reference to a computer being taken, etc. when the search was executed. But even so, unless the PDA was taken as well, then Raven would still have the potential to be connected to anyone and anything, online.....

Just some thoughts.

jager

06-02-2005, 05:24 PM

Hey people,
Not much of a sleuth, but I do have some info that may help. I never met Raven in person but I conversed with him a few times via email after he left a business card on my motorcycle with his email address saying he had a ducati also and we should ride sometime. This was around April-June of 2004 when I was still living in carrboro. When emailed each other for a little bit, but stopped after a week or so, for no real reason. Both of us busy I guess. Then in Feb. of this year Raven posted a for sale ad for his Duc 748 in a forum I visit regularly. I recogized his name and emailed him. He informed me that he was layed-off and that was why he was selling the duc. Said he had a child now and seemed pretty up beat about life. He said we should go riding sometime and asked if I would look over his bike to make sure everything was good and ready to be sold. I said I would and to let me know when. Didn't hear from him again. Later I saw the story and picture of Janet on WRAL's site and thought her and the child looked familiar. I've been checking back on the story from time to time since then, which lead me here today. Anyway thats my history...here is the little bit I know.

When talking with Raven b/w Apr-Jun of 04 IIRC he and Janet were living in the chapel hill/carrboro area, might have been in durham though. He played pickup soccer games at least once a week on the field at a school (name escapes me at the moment) in carrboro (http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=35.902612,-79.068207&spn=0.005815,0.007896&t=k&hl=en) (the big field in the picture on s merritt mill rd.) I believe he said he usually played on sunday, but also played/practiced during the week sometimes. He also said he played in an adult league and usually had games in charlotte and other close cities on the weekends during soccer season.

When talking with Raven around feb. of this year. He seemed the same attitude wise if not more upbeat. Said he was in durham now and was looking to move to raleigh. Which I think was where his new job was. Seemed proud of his new child and family life in general.

Thats about all I can think of for now. All of the stuff above is all from memory since I deleted the emails pretty much after I read them. As for if I think he did it? I have no clue, I'll leave that up to the police and the jury if one is needed. I just hope justice is served.

And as for the comments about no flowers at the house, no comments from Raven, keeping/throwing away/leaving items from the departed and other guesses on how someone should grieve a loss such as this; I say that everyone handles grieving in a different way and EVEN if you have been in a similar situation you have no right to judge. I can't even imagine what Janet's family members are going though at the moment.

Interesting site you guys have here. Has this site actually helped solve a crime before? There seem to be some great internet detectives and crime minds on here and some great information being shared. I would not be suprised if you guys have helped the LE on some cases before. If so great work.

NCBanker

06-02-2005, 05:26 PM

You know, I should have posted this long before, but I was told by an insider at Eurosport that Janet actually worked in another department before Raven pushed for her to get the position in accounting. It is speculated that Raven then obtained Janet's accounting login information and used it himself to push his fictitious orders through. For that reason, it is not believed that Janet had any knowledge of his criminal activity - at least while it was taking place. It would seem that he had been planning the illegal activity for some time and simply waited for the right moment to push Janet into accounting and take advantage of the situation.

golfmom

06-02-2005, 05:32 PM

SESleuth! A great big fat kiss and welcome to Websleuths.

You are absolutely AmAZinG!

golfmom

06-02-2005, 05:36 PM

Those are the same shoes, the Nike Vapor gold thingys on ebay!
:eek:

curious1

06-02-2005, 05:36 PM

:laugh:
I am so psyched to have actually found something myself. :)
Usually I am the one standing in the middle of the road going " What truck?"
It's nice to find something to chuckle about in the middle of something so horrible. You gotta laugh from time to time or ya go nutz. :crazy:

SouthEastSleuth

06-02-2005, 06:12 PM

ewwwinteresting

06-02-2005, 06:21 PM

And as for the comments about no flowers at the house, no comments from Raven, keeping/throwing away/leaving items from the departed and other guesses on how someone should grieve a loss such as this; I say that everyone handles grieving in a different way and EVEN if you have been in a similar situation you have no right to judge. I can't even imagine what Janet's family members are going though at the moment.
I agree. People do grieve differently....but how can EVERYBODY be grieving the same way in this matter???????? Silence! I could understand several people or even a lot of people, but everyone????

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 07:04 PM

This is a guy selling AUTO PARTS on eBay motors. Do we have any indication that Raven was interested in auto parts?

I would also like to point out that NC is HOME to NASCAR.
One of the NASCAR drivers has a last name of Craven.
So it's entirely possible that this screen name refers to a fan of Ricky Craven's or even a team member who sells legitimate parts during the week.

You are right about the " caution in making feedback private". I stand by my reasoning that Raven expected to have has account shut down and made his FB private in anticipation of that. If he was ( no longer a registered user) which you will see by many names on eBay, his FB would still be visible.

Raven obviously does not want what he has sold to be made known. I am sure someone typed in " Wow, great seller for all my soccer gear needs" and that sort of thing. Raven has NO control over what someone says about his merchandise.. The only eBay rule is that they are not supposed to leave his real name in their comments.

A much more serious violation on eBay is the unauthorized sale of licensed merchandise. They prosecute hard and heavy on this.. I tend to think they just didn't have any complaints or didn't catch on to what he was doing.
JMHO.

Geez, I hope this isn't him since whomever this is was leaving feedback on April 27th. But I keep thinking - what are the chances that two people from NC are named dcraven, one with a hyphen, one without, (unless that's why our guy used a hyphen in the first place). Were all of Raven's ID profiles private? If so, I imagine that this one would be also.

It's strange - there is a warning on e-bay to seriously consider whether or not you really want to make your feedback private because of the potential affect it could have on you as a buyer/seller if others can't view that feedback. They make it clear that you should only elect to make it private if there is a very real reason to do so. Some opt to do it when they have a lot of negative feedback, which he doesn't seem to have. Others do it when they are selling risque or otherwise questionable merchandise or if they are protecting the identity of their buyers, (in the event of an extremely valuable item or something of very high collectibility). I imagine one might also do it if they are selling stolen merchandise (but that's just my opinion).

This is the way it was when I used to buy at e-bay. It might not be this way anymore but back then, there wasn't a chance that I would have chosen to make my feedback private. Oh, and BTW, that is an option that you have to select ... the default on e-bay is public feedback, (at least back a year or so ago when I was using it).

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 07:11 PM

I would also like to point out that NC is HOME to NASCAR.
One of the NASCAR drivers has a last name of Craven.
So it's entirely possible that this screen name refers to a fan of Ricky Craven's or even a team member who sells legitimate parts during the week.Very good point.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 07:13 PM

Raven obviously does not want what he has sold to be made known. I am sure someone typed in " Wow, great seller for all my soccer gear needs" and that sort of thing. Raven has NO control over what someone says about his merchandise.. The only eBay rule is that they are not supposed to leave his real name in their comments.I know these e-bay details to be true as well. I hope that LE/prosecutors go after E-bay and PayPal records for Raven. I think that they might be helpful in the embezzlement case at least. (Are they able to subpoena those records? I imagine so?)

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 07:41 PM

If you will go to PayPal.com and read their policies, it clearly states that if you ship any merchandise to anywhere other than the CONFIRMED address of the buyer, you are not eligible for any compensation from PayPal.

The same is true if a buyer is paying a seller via PayPal and the seller has an Unconfirmed address. PayPal will not intercede in any way. I will not complete a transaction with anyone who asks that merchandise be shipped elsewhere. PayPal has made it very impractical to do so.

I am NOT going to put my merchandise ... in a situation where I would have no compensation measures if the person claimed " Lost' or " Damaged" or just plain " Seller stole from me". <-- Have seen that one on other people's FB.You are absolutely right but the easy way around this is to insure the package that you are sending. When I sold some items in the Auction for America charity auctions, I insured everything just in case. It's only slightly more in the shipping costs, and then you don't have to worry about PayPal not covering your customer's loss should one occur.

I had a problem with a seller one time, and PayPal was no help at all in spite of the fact that this Power Seller and I had both followed the rules. SafeHarbor checked into the situation, and was unable to do anything about it as well. I guess that my only point is that if someone wants to do something underhanded at e-bay, there are ways for it to be done. The more computer-savvy one is, the more likely they'll be able to create multiple accounts, etc.

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 07:44 PM

I know these e-bay details to be true as well. I hope that LE/prosecutors go after E-bay and PayPal records for Raven. I think that they might be helpful in the embezzlement case at least. (Are they able to subpoena those records? I imagine so?)

Yes, there are subpoena powers for eBay transactions. eBay used to be resistant to this type of thing, but now they are more mainstream, more " public friendly" and comply much easier.
Also, eBay acquired www.shopping.com where people write reviews of items. I was a member when it was Epionions.com.
So, they own both a feedback system for the goods they are selling AND the major form of payment accepted ( PayPal). I surely do wish I had owned some eBay stock about 5 years ago!!!!! :)
( AOL is really the only internet company which is almost totally non-compliant).

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 07:49 PM

They helped me just recently when a seller had not shipped merchandise to me after 2 weeks. I filed a complaint, and the shipper shipped the item that day.
Usually their presence in a transaction is enough for the errant person to do the right thing.. I am also prudent to look at the person's FB, when I am both the buyer and seller. I have cancelled MANY bids because the people did not adhere to our rules for buyers.

You are absolutely right but the easy way around this is to insure the package that you are sending. When I sold some items in the Auction for America charity auctions, I insured everything just in case. It's only slightly more in the shipping costs, and then you don't have to worry about PayPal not covering your customer's loss should one occur.

I had a problem with a seller one time, and PayPal was no help at all in spite of the fact that this Power Seller and I had both followed the rules. SafeHarbor checked into the situation, and was unable to do anything about it as well. I guess that my only point is that if someone wants to do something underhanded at e-bay, there are ways for it to be done. The more computer-savvy one is, the more likely they'll be able to create multiple accounts, etc.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 08:15 PM

I was just thinking about everything that we've learned about this situation ... all of the difficulties and ultimately the tragedy that this family has experienced. The maritial struggles, the financial struggles, the embezzlement, etc. And it occured to me that if Raven did embezzle these shoes that he was selling over his computer on e-bay, and IF his troubles spiralled out of control after that, and IF he is responsible for Janet's murder ... the image of those shoes sitting on the bench outside of the now empty house is both poignant and downright chilling. What are the chances that the only two things that would end up left behind as evidence of that family ever having lived there would be the shoes on the porch and the computer desk on the driveway? The computer that he used to list the shoes that might have been the key to starting a horrible chain of events. The computer that he sat at with his and Janet's baby, that he used to prepare home lessons, to set up his MySpace account, to write down his thoughts in his blog, etc. The computer is gone but the desk that (most likely) held it, and which contained blood spatter from Raven's beautiful wife sits by itself on that driveway.

Not that it means anything but it occured to me while I was driving, and it literally sent a chill down my spine.

Thinkoflaura

06-02-2005, 08:25 PM

jager

06-02-2005, 08:48 PM

Jager -

Hi and thanks for the comments. I know this will seem like a really vague-type question, but with your dealing with Raven, especially in person, what are your thoughts about him, etc? I guess I mean, was he likable, etc.? First impressions? Your impressions, having been around him just randomly, would be interesting I think. Often time when people characterize someone they already know, ie., a friend, family, co-worker, it's not as easy to get an unbiased opinion. So anything you could provide would be appreciated. And, one other thing: did he ever talk much about Janet herself?

Thanks in advance!
As a said before, I never met Raven in person. I really don't have too much to offer as a judge of his personality for a couple of reason. One all of our emails probably only add up to a couple of paragraphs. Two I'm not really analytical when it comes to people. And finally it’s hard to remember what my thoughts of him were almost a year ago especially after reading the information on the news articles and this site. But here are my thoughts based on our correspondence, which mostly limited to motorcycles and soccer. Definitely outgoing, nice and likeable. He was a little materialistic, but really not much more than any other 25 year old male. We were a lot alike: ducatis, soccer, mountain biking, snowboarding, IT field, and the same age. He seemed to be an optimist, even more so the second time I talked to him, after he was “layed-off” as he told me (can’t blame him for lying I wouldn’t tell people either). Seemed intelligent and self motivated. Has read some of the same books I have on motorcycle riding techniques. I don’t recall him talking at Janet, he might have said something once or twice, but as I said are emails were mainly about motorcycles and some soccer stuff. I know I never said anything about my girlfriend. I’ll let you know if I remember anything better, or can dig up some old emails.

JerseyGirl

06-02-2005, 09:17 PM

I posted the exact same thoughts last night. that it was so ironic that what stood for Janet were her shoes from her cherished sport, and what remained of Raven was the desk to the means of his " IT dreams", his computer..

Extremely disturbing.
It really is. Especially considering the vital roles that those items played in their lives and the roles that they may ultimately have played in her death if Raven is the one that did this. Very disturbing indeed. :(

SouthEastSleuth

06-02-2005, 09:47 PM

As a said before, I never met Raven in person. I really don't have too much to offer as a judge of his personality for a couple of reason. One all of our emails probably only add up to a couple of paragraphs. Two I'm not really analytical when it comes to people. And finally it’s hard to remember what my thoughts of him were almost a year ago especially after reading the information on the news articles and this site. But here are my thoughts based on our correspondence, which mostly limited to motorcycles and soccer. Definitely outgoing, nice and likeable. He was a little materialistic, but really not much more than any other 25 year old male. We were a lot alike: ducatis, soccer, mountain biking, snowboarding, IT field, and the same age. He seemed to be an optimist, even more so the second time I talked to him, after he was “layed-off” as he told me (can’t blame him for lying I wouldn’t tell people either). Seemed intelligent and self motivated. Has read some of the same books I have on motorcycle riding techniques. I don’t recall him talking at Janet, he might have said something once or twice, but as I said are emails were mainly about motorcycles and some soccer stuff. I know I never said anything about my girlfriend. I’ll let you know if I remember anything better, or can dig up some old emails.
Thanks for the insights (somehow I overlooked that you had never met in person! duh!)... Regardless, I always think it's interesting to get other people's take or impressions of someone they've just met ( or even just corresponded with in your case). Again, as I said in an earlier post, I think every little bit helps when trying to put together the portrait of WHO a person really is...

And, I have to agree: if I had just lost my job due to criminal charges, I doubt I would mention that little tidbit to anyone either!

Again, thanks for taking the time to respond! I appreciate it...

golfmom

06-02-2005, 09:51 PM

You know every day I come to this board and think we can't possibly wring anymore out of this case without the media or LE releasing information.

Every day our supersleuths at websleuths prove me wrong.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

anneshirley

06-02-2005, 11:17 PM

As a said before, I never met Raven in person. I really don't have too much to offer as a judge of his personality for a couple of reason. One all of our emails probably only add up to a couple of paragraphs. Two I'm not really analytical when it comes to people. And finally it’s hard to remember what my thoughts of him were almost a year ago especially after reading the information on the news articles and this site. But here are my thoughts based on our correspondence, which mostly limited to motorcycles and soccer. Definitely outgoing, nice and likeable. He was a little materialistic, but really not much more than any other 25 year old male. We were a lot alike: ducatis, soccer, mountain biking, snowboarding, IT field, and the same age. He seemed to be an optimist, even more so the second time I talked to him, after he was “layed-off” as he told me (can’t blame him for lying I wouldn’t tell people either). Seemed intelligent and self motivated. Has read some of the same books I have on motorcycle riding techniques. I don’t recall him talking at Janet, he might have said something once or twice, but as I said are emails were mainly about motorcycles and some soccer stuff. I know I never said anything about my girlfriend. I’ll let you know if I remember anything better, or can dig up some old emails.
jager,
Welcome to the boards. Thanks for sharing your insights!

anneshirley

06-02-2005, 11:22 PM

As a said before, I never met Raven in person. I really don't have too much to offer as a judge of his personality for a couple of reason. One all of our emails probably only add up to a couple of paragraphs. Two I'm not really analytical when it comes to people. And finally it’s hard to remember what my thoughts of him were almost a year ago especially after reading the information on the news articles and this site. But here are my thoughts based on our correspondence, which mostly limited to motorcycles and soccer. Definitely outgoing, nice and likeable. He was a little materialistic, but really not much more than any other 25 year old male. We were a lot alike: ducatis, soccer, mountain biking, snowboarding, IT field, and the same age. He seemed to be an optimist, even more so the second time I talked to him, after he was “layed-off” as he told me (can’t blame him for lying I wouldn’t tell people either). Seemed intelligent and self motivated. Has read some of the same books I have on motorcycle riding techniques. I don’t recall him talking at Janet, he might have said something once or twice, but as I said are emails were mainly about motorcycles and some soccer stuff. I know I never said anything about my girlfriend. I’ll let you know if I remember anything better, or can dig up some old emails.

Jager,
I do have one question for you. There's been a lot of discussion on Raven's sexuality (see the "Personality Factors" thread for more info). As a stranger to Raven, did you ever feel like he was hitting on you (even if it were electronically?). SOme have said that he was flirtatious with both men and women. I was just wondering if you had that experience-through your email chats.
I apologize if this sounds immature, but since you had some contact with him, I think you have more insight than we're taking advantage of.

LvsAMystry

06-02-2005, 11:39 PM

Great info on the soccer equipment, I thought the issue had been stolen money so it's interesting to learn it was actually merchandise. I bet Golfmom is right that he sold this stuff on ebay. Too bad we can't get a history.

I've been trying to track down the actual soccer game -- I believe, and this is without tracking back to look, that MissYouJanet said he left the house about 7:30 PM and returned about 10:30 PM. If that's the case, I'm going to assume a playing time of one hour, another hour or so to account for warmup, possible late start, chatting, change afterwood, which leaves the last hour for r/t of 30 mins each way. Within those parameters, I tried to look for a league that had a game that fit the timeframe.

I first found the North Carolina Adult Soccer Assn, of which his friend, Daruis Ejlali, is President. NCASA (http://www.ncsoccer.org/ncasa/English.htm)

From there, I looked at the links of clubs/leagues that were in the geographic area that made sense timewise. You can view this info on the "Where to Play" link at top of homepage. Once looking at the different areas and deciding which made sense geographically, I then looked at each club/league to see whether any played the night of the murder. The only one I found is TASL (http://www.triangleadultsoccer.org/). If you go to schedule, you will see the Coed Section C plays on Tuesday nights. There were two games (so 4 teams) that had a game at 8:30 PM on that night, which fits. I wish I could confirm one way or the other, but this is the best I could come up with.

Interesting. I posted the above yesterday, and decided to do some more poking around tonight and cannot get into the NCASA website, or even the main site for nc soccer, www.ncsoccer.org, that contains the link to NCASA. Can anyone tell me if they can access, not sure if it's my browser or what, but strange.

Chica

06-02-2005, 11:44 PM

Interesting. I posted the above yesterday, and decided to do some more poking around tonight and cannot get into the NCASA website, or even the main site for nc soccer, www.ncsoccer.org, that contains the link to NCASA. Can anyone tell me if they can access, not sure if it's my browser or what, but strange.

Most peculiar . . . I got in yesterday, but not today!!

LvsAMystry

06-02-2005, 11:51 PM

Most peculiar . . . I got in yesterday, but not today!!

I just tried with my aol browser, it also came back stating website not responding. Hmmm, maybe my bad for posting the friend's name affiliated with the org? If that's the case, at least we know we've caught some attention. ;)

ewwwinteresting

06-03-2005, 12:38 AM

Tips can be emailed directly to Detective Bennie Bradley:

bennie.bradley@durhamnc.gov

If anyone has a tip that needs to be passed along to LE and does not feel comfortable emailing directly, just pm me and I'll help pass the information along confidentially.

But, it is best if you have information to contact the detective directly yourself.
:blowkiss:
Can the tip be: How about some help from the public, the media, a reward fund???

misterallgood

06-03-2005, 01:04 AM

What follows is the latest comment (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/000747.html#comments) by a reader of the Dark Side (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside), my true crime weblog, about Raven and Janet Abaroa. It is both illuminating and unsurprising all at once:

Raven and Janet Abaroa were members of my LDS ward about one and a half to two years ago. In other words, we attended church together. I have never seen Raven play soccer and I don't know enough about it to judge talent and skill levels in that sport. However I have played college basketball and coached basketball and know basketball skills quite well. Raven would often play basketball at church, sometimes organized, sometimes not. He was a terrible basketball player and clearly viewed himself as much better than he was, and he was competitive in an unhealthy way. What does this have to do with the murder of Janet? Perhaps nothing, but Raven displayed a terrible temper and was an absolute maniac on the court. He was very, very physical yet never felt he committed a foul. On the other hand he would call a foul even when he was practically untouched rather than admit to any errors in his game.

The last time I saw Raven was during a 3-on-3 basketball tournament. All day long he had been very physical and obnoxious when finally an opponent he was guarding swung an elbow to his jaw that dropped Raven to the floor. He was not totally unconscious but lay on the floor for several minutes while waiting for his head to clear. No one cheered out loud yet all of the competitors were glad for the hit - quietly laughing, giving "high fives" and so forth, and hardly anyone seemed concerned for his health. The tournament was stopped and never resumed because of Raven's out-of-control behavior. Raven also gave a talk during a sacrament (Sunday service) meeting in which he admitted to having problems with his temper. I did not spend enough time around him to see the materialistic side that others have portrayed of him but it would be consistent with my observations. One other interesting note, any time I saw Raven and Janet together he was completely dominant. She hardly spoke a word in his presence. I have not convicted Raven in my mind although, based on his behavior, and on their interaction as a couple, I can believe his rage made him capable of this horrific act. I hope I am wrong and I look forward to some resolution in this case.

As do we all.

Mr. A.

lauriej

06-03-2005, 03:16 AM

re: the soccer game of tuesday nite..april 26th...

...a poster ( i belive golfmom) had credible info from a source that raven played in a 'pick-up' game that nite...

...Luvsamystery posted :
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Great info on the soccer equipment, I thought the issue had been stolen money so it's interesting to learn it was actually merchandise. I bet Golfmom is right that he sold this stuff on ebay. Too bad we can't get a history.

I've been trying to track down the actual soccer game -- I believe, and this is without tracking back to look, that MissYouJanet said he left the house about 7:30 PM and returned about 10:30 PM. If that's the case, I'm going to assume a playing time of one hour, another hour or so to account for warmup, possible late start, chatting, change afterwood, which leaves the last hour for r/t of 30 mins each way. Within those parameters, I tried to look for a league that had a game that fit the timeframe.

I first found the North Carolina Adult Soccer Assn, of which his friend, Daruis Ejlali, is President. NCASA (http://www.ncsoccer.org/ncasa/English.htm)

From there, I looked at the links of clubs/leagues that were in the geographic area that made sense timewise. You can view this info on the "Where to Play" link at top of homepage. Once looking at the different areas and deciding which made sense geographically, I then looked at each club/league to see whether any played the night of the murder. The only one I found is TASL (http://www.triangleadultsoccer.org/). If you go to schedule, you will see the Coed Section C plays on Tuesday nights. There were two games (so 4 teams) that had a game at 8:30 PM on that night, which fits. I wish I could confirm one way or the other, but this is the best I could come up with.

........................the TASL site has 2 "pick'up" games played on tuesday nites...

......http://www.triangleadultsoccer.org/

...one at 5 p.m...@ NCSU.....(tuesdays)
...the other @ 6:30 @ wooten meadows.....(tuesdays)

........both of these are in raleigh, approx. 20 miles from durham...

...so, about a 40 minute drive for sure...( there and back ).....not close enough to sneak away unnoticed during the game....or game break....

........as said above..(luvs post ).the co-ed league had tues. nite games (and on april 26th, )at 8:30.....also played in raleigh...

...i WISH LE would give out even a tid-bit of info.....time of death would be significant............the actual game raven played in would be nice.........

....p.s......................LOTS to catch up on today on here..............Excellent digging done ! GREAT ebay info..........!

golfmom

06-03-2005, 07:34 AM

Can the tip be: How about some help from the public, the media, a reward fund

Sure seems like we're upside down here.

golfmom

06-03-2005, 08:17 AM

re: the soccer game of tuesday nite..april 26th...

...a poster ( i belive golfmom) had credible info from a source that raven played in a 'pick-up' game that nite...

Great info on the soccer equipment, I thought the issue had been stolen money so it's interesting to learn it was actually merchandise. I bet Golfmom is right that he sold this stuff on ebay. Too bad we can't get a history.

I've been trying to track down the actual soccer game -- I believe, and this is without tracking back to look, that MissYouJanet said he left the house about 7:30 PM and returned about 10:30 PM. If that's the case, I'm going to assume a playing time of one hour, another hour or so to account for warmup, possible late start, chatting, change afterwood, which leaves the last hour for r/t of 30 mins each way. Within those parameters, I tried to look for a league that had a game that fit the timeframe.

..........!

My source didn't say whether it was a pick up game or not, just that Raven played in more than one league. I've googled myself silly trying to find a game and confirmation and we did uncover some promising leads, but have no way to confirm which game he played.
:doh: