Psychic

[kpass]

I wonder if a Psychic has been called in...I watched Nancy Grace last night, she had Noreen Renier on, she does help with a lot of these cases.

http://members.atlantic.net/~nrenier/

[LadyGraffix@mac.com]

You're not the first to mention this in relation to this case. I believe it has been reported by LE that many of the calls and tips they have fielded and continue to investigate are from psychics.

Now, I don't belive it has been reported whether or not they have solicited the help of a psychic . . . that may be one of those things they choose to keep to themselves, if they have.

[HappyChic727]

I hope so . . . I totally believe that someone like Sylvia Browne or Noreen R. can come up with some answers or at least some good clues. I have fought long and hard with some posters in the past on this subject. I believe that we are all "a little psychic" but that some people are truly gifted (although they are also burdened) and are able to "see things." I always thought that Sylvia Browne knew exactly what happened to Laci Peterson. I don't know if that has come out in any of her writings or if she has mentioned this on any of her appearances with Montel Williams or in any of her lectures but I think that if she was asked by Laci's mother, father, sister, brother, step-father for the information, she would have the missing pieces of the puzzle. I called her office early on in that case and she had received alot of calls but I just don't think that the Modesto Police or Laci's family called and so, she never gave her "reading" publicly (that I know of). Have you looked into any of the readings by Sandra Belanger as to the Laci Peterson case? Very interesting stuff - very close to the outcome. She actually had to take some stuff out because she was afraid to be arrested. She went to the Modesto Police with her information - I don't know if they used it or not unfortunately. Anyway, I should get back to work! :dance:

[CaliKid]

I have no problem with using a reputable psychic, but Sylvia has been completely wrong on more than one occasion and has given false hope to families where the child turned out to be dead almost from the moment he or she disappeared.

[Jeana (DP)]

I hope the police have enough sense not to put any faith in that bull crap.

[Sheromom]

I hope the police have enough sense not to put any faith in that bull crap.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y169/Sheromom/LOLlaughingcat.gif

[kpass]

I hope the police have enough sense not to put any faith in that bull crap.

Do you ever watch "Psychic Detectives?" Actually, there ARE a lot of them that do work with the police...Nancy Grace had Noreen Renier on last week, she does solve a lot of crimes. There was a sergeant on who was always skeptical before, but now is a believer. Noreen was right from the very beginning about Laci Peterson. Remember it was SP's mother who hired her & didn't like what she told her...the TRUTH about her son being the murderer.
:behindbar

[HappyChic727]

Geez, see what I mean . . . I never said that Sylvia Browne was right every single time or that everyone who claims to be a psychic is a good person. I have certain times in my life when I am more psychic than others and I believe in psychic powers and if Sylvia Browne or Ms. Tootie or whoever can give a clue as to where these poor children are, dead or alive, then I say thank you to them. The whole frigging country hasn't been able to find them . . . what could we possibly have to lose by getting advice from a psychic - a well-known one at that, about 2 missing babies?

[Sassygerl]

While many have differing views of the use of psychics, I can say that a relative of mine, who was an internationally known psychic, did actually find the body of a missing 18 year old years back in Texas. He has since passed away, but gave a detailed description of the area and certain things to look for as well as who would find the body. Sure enough, they found the boy buried and his foot was sticking out, exactly like they were told! The man who found him was also told beforehand he would be the one to find him!

[HappyChic727]

Thank you Sassy! Have a great weekend! I'm stuck at work at the moment -oh well, almost $30 an hour overtime ain't hard to take!

[Jeana (DP)]

Do you ever watch "Psychic Detectives?" Actually, there ARE a lot of them that do work with the police...Nancy Grace had Noreen Renier on last week, she does solve a lot of crimes. There was a sergeant on who was always skeptical before, but now is a believer. Noreen was right from the very beginning about Laci Peterson. Remember it was SP's mother who hired her & didn't like what she told her...the TRUTH about her son being the murderer.
:behindbar


No, I don't watch that television show. I can tell you from personal experience that they're full of crap.

[Sassygerl]

No, I don't watch that television show. I can tell you from personal experience that they're full of crap.

Not all, but many are!!!! It can't hurt anything, my relative wasn't right most the time, but when he was he hit it right on. You probably use to hear him on the radio Jeana...LOL...maybe not since you don't believe at all.

[TisHerself]

Don't know about other Phychics but Sylvia Brown is no more phychic than I am, and I am lucky I can find my glasses when they are on my head.

[Liz]

For what it's worth, I did hear Wolfinger say that they were not discounting any tips. And he did say that they were getting some from psychics.

[Jeana (DP)]

Not all, but many are!!!! It can't hurt anything, my relative wasn't right most the time, but when he was he hit it right on. You probably use to hear him on the radio Jeana...LOL...maybe not since you don't believe at all.

I don't think that I did hear him on the radio. :) All I can tell you is that in the 11 years my sister was missing, they came out of the woodwork. Household name Psychics. All they did was eat up our food, waste valuable time that the police could have used doing other things and, in a few cases, sent my mother astronomical bills. It would take a hell of a lot to get me to believe that it was true.

[Sassygerl]

I don't think that I did hear him on the radio. :) All I can tell you is that in the 11 years my sister was missing, they came out of the woodwork. Household name Psychics. All they did was eat up our food, waste valuable time that the police could have used doing other things and, in a few cases, sent my mother astronomical bills. It would take a hell of a lot to get me to believe that it was true.

I have no doubt and I can understand why you feel the way you do. What a rough 11 years that had to be, and I'm sure it's something you never get over. I'm sorry for your loss :(

The person I knew worked with police and did not charge the families. Knowing him though I knew many quacks and wannabes and I can actually imagine many of them woofing down peoples food and saying things that are so general it could be said to every person around and somehow make some kind of sense, yet not be helpful at all.

Sylvia Browne is not one I personally believe in. When she says things to people on TV it's stuff she could be saying to me that would ring true somehow....."someone with the name....ummm starts with a D...then your mind scrambles...well of course I know someone with a D name"....that kind of thing. As she continues, it's all generalizations. I've heard she charges an outrageous amount for readings....she's a crook IMO.

[Tom'sGirl]

For what it's worth, I did hear Wolfinger say that they were not discounting any tips. And he did say that they were getting some from psychics.
Well, okay then, that's covered, whether someone believes in Physhics
:woohoo:
or not huh Liz? I personally don't, but then I don't believe in a lot of things :)

[Liz]

Well, okay then, that's covered, whether someone believes in Physhics
:woohoo:
or not huh Liz? I personally don't, but then I don't believe in a lot of things :)


I would think with 70-100 investigators, they have time to follow every tip. Even the dreams people call in about. ;) But, I really don't know. It just sounds like an awful lot of investigators.

I know they went thru that 800 tons of garbage at the landfill in no time flat!

Does anyone know how is it that Kootenai County was assigned SO MANY federal investigators for this case? On what basis?

[dannyodie]

I have no doubt and I can understand why you feel the way you do. What a rough 11 years that had to be, and I'm sure it's something you never get over. I'm sorry for your loss :(

The person I knew worked with police and did not charge the families. Knowing him though I knew many quacks and wannabes and I can actually imagine many of them woofing down peoples food and saying things that are so general it could be said to every person around and somehow make some kind of sense, yet not be helpful at all.

Sylvia Browne is not one I personally believe in. When she says things to people on TV it's stuff she could be saying to me that would ring true somehow....."someone with the name....ummm starts with a D...then your mind scrambles...well of course I know someone with a D name"....that kind of thing. As she continues, it's all generalizations. I've heard she charges an outrageous amount for readings....she's a crook IMO.
AMEN! and I thought I was the only one that didn't have much hash for sylvia brown, she really is way out there. but I personally do have a belief in physics. one that is really impressive is noreen ranier. court tv runs regular shows of her and a few more that are very good, one man and I know his name is phil, can't think of the last name. seems he lives up north somewhere. he used to be a law enforcement officer. if I find this mans last name I will post again on that subject.

[Tom'sGirl]

I would think with 70-100 investigators, they have time to follow every tip. Even the dreams people call in about. ;) But, I really don't know. It just sounds like an awful lot of investigators.

I know they went thru that 800 tons of garbage at the landfill in no time flat!

Does anyone know how is it that Kootenai County was assigned SO MANY federal investigators for this case? On what basis?
Just a thought, but could it be some of the investigators are from another State that may be linked somehow?

[Gracelin]

I would think with 70-100 investigators, they have time to follow every tip. Even the dreams people call in about. ;) But, I really don't know. It just sounds like an awful lot of investigators.

I know they went thru that 800 tons of garbage at the landfill in no time flat!

Does anyone know how is it that Kootenai County was assigned SO MANY federal investigators for this case? On what basis?They got the help they need, to cover the large area, and the number of people needed to be questioned,or followed, they are able to cover more ground with more people..

What is the pouplation out there, It is not like going though the city of New York's trash..

[Liz]

They got the help they need, to cover the large area, and the number of people needed to be questioned,or followed, they are able to cover more ground with more people..

What is the pouplation out there, It is not like going though the city of New York's trash..



The population is irrelevant, as the amount of garbage to be gone thru was in my post. I was just stating my opinion based on my observation.

[Gracelin]

The population is irrelevant, as the amount of garbage to be gone thru was in my post. I was just stating my opinion based on my observation.
It just sounds like an awful lot of investigators

Does anyone know how is it that Kootenai County was assigned SO MANY federal investigators for this case? On what basis?

I know they went thru that 800 tons of garbage at the landfill in no time flat.

It seemed like from reading this thread the Psychic end would work better than the bodies of investagators, I don't think that is the case, other wise there would be no missing people anywhere and we would all hit the lottery every day..

The pouplation certainly does have an effect on the amount and area of trash they would search, The more people the more trash, the longer it takes...The same goes for the amount of investigators.

[Tom'sGirl]

Well, anyhew.....in your post "Does anyone know how is it that Kootenai County was assigned SO MANY federal investigators for this case? On what basis?" (which I thought was a good question BTW)

I replied:
"Just a thought, but could it be some of the investigators are from another State that may be linked somehow?"

What I was thinking when I posted that is that maybe IF they have a certain person they are investigating that we all don't know about from another state, MAYBE that State sent some of thier guys out to Idaho.

Just a thought and my :twocents: worth :)

[Vet4Bush]

I believe that the reason that there are so many Feds involved in this case is that it a region where there are three states in close proximity and the Canadian border is not far away, a natural reason for the Feds. Also, this is the area of Ruby Ridge where the FBI had a big shootout with Aryan Nation types a few years ago. And it is a known drug transportation area, another Fed interest. I think the Feds are looking out for their interests there and are posssibly looking for a dramatic solution to the crime for publicity purposes. The Feds are sometimes oportunists when they think they can solve a crime with their resources and hog all the glory and limelight and justify their existence.

[Tom'sGirl]

I believe that the reason that there are so many Feds involved in this case is that it a region where there are three states in close proximity and the Canadian border is not far away, a natural reason for the Feds. .
This in fact may be the reason Vet, thanks!

[annie mae]

Greetings. I think you mean the FEDS killed an innocent child at Ruby Ridge, plus his mother. But, that is another issue that does not need to be explored in this Forum. "So many Feds" is because children have been kidnapped and that is a Federal Crime. Plus I think the FEDS know the Aryan Nation do not kill children, any age. We have had enough Feds in OKlahoma to last a lifetime solving crimes that deal with Bombs. The drug avenue is usually handled by the DEA in any State. Blessings, annie

[Liz]

Well, anyhew.....in your post "Does anyone know how is it that Kootenai County was assigned SO MANY federal investigators for this case? On what basis?" (which I thought was a good question BTW)

I replied:
"Just a thought, but could it be some of the investigators are from another State that may be linked somehow?"

What I was thinking when I posted that is that maybe IF they have a certain person they are investigating that we all don't know about from another state, MAYBE that State sent some of thier guys out to Idaho.

Just a thought and my :twocents: worth :)


Sorry, Tom'sGirl, I didn't mean to ignore you. I just got a bit taken aback there by another post.
;)

And, thank you for saying it was a good question!

I don't really know how the feds assign the FBI agents, and that was really my question. But, I would think that they would be assigned from the region and I know that the region (of FBI task force) that Idaho is in, consists of Oregon, Idaho and Washington. So, I would surmise that you are right and they would send them from this region.

My husband and one of his buddies were talking and they think there's something bigger going on, that we are not privy to, that there were so many FBI agents assigned to this case; or that they are even involved. (Mind you, they don't follow murder cases like some of us here. ;) )

I felt I knew some of the reasons, myself, but thought I would see what anybody else, who might have a clue, had to say.

Plus, since we seem to be at a standstill or 'in the eye of the storm', as Ben Wolfinger put it, I thought it might fan the posting fires. Whew, it sure did! lol! :D

[Tom'sGirl]

Sorry, Tom'sGirl, I didn't mean to ignore you. I just got a bit taken aback there by another post.
;)

And, thank you for saying it was a good question!

I don't really know how the feds assign the FBI agents, and that was really my question. But, I would think that they would be assigned from the region and I know that the region (of FBI task force) that Idaho is in, consists of Oregon, Idaho and Washington. So, I would surmise that you are right and they would send them from this region.

My husband and one of his buddies were talking and they think there's something bigger going on, that we are not privy to, that there were so many FBI agents assigned to this case; or that they are even involved. (Mind you, they don't follow murder cases like some of us here. ;) )

I felt I knew some of the reasons, myself, but thought I would see what anybody else, who might have a clue, had to say.

Plus, since we seem to be at a standstill or 'in the eye of the storm', as Ben Wolfinger put it, I thought it might fan the posting fires. Whew, it sure did! lol! :DI know you didn't mean to ignore my reply, I was a bit taken aback also:laugh:

When this case blows wide open, maybe, and I say maybe we will all know the answers to all of our questions the LE are keeping under wraps, OR they will only tell us the parts that don't reflect on anyone of authority.

I personally don't give a rats butt about anything except the kids at this point and I'm so sorry they were involved in "whatever" came down.

[CaliKid]

I don't want to get into conspiracy theories that have nothing to do with the Groene murders and Shasta and Dylan's disappearance, but Idaho, due to its rural nature, has a high percentage of radical bigots and militia-type individuals. While it may partly explain the high number of FBI agents, I think the main focus is the murder and kidnapping. Family, LE and all of us want these children back alive.

[Rocky]

No, I don't watch that television show. I can tell you from personal experience that they're full of crap.

we wouldn't have toilets if we weren't all full of crap...


too bad you had a bad experience Jeana...


I hear a psychic called in after locating them in Spokane, WA...

called the FBI
Local police
and the $70K reward hotline...

when the police showed up to check out the lead, they think the kids had been there, too bad they waited over a week to check out the lead... They were going to head up to Canada, but know they'd never clear the border...


find out which relative has been calling pops only by cell phone and you'll find the kids...


take it easy on them, they had a reason for doing what they did...

[close_enough]

I don't want to get into conspiracy theories that have nothing to do with the Groene murders and Shasta and Dylan's disappearance, but Idaho, due to its rural nature, has a high percentage of radical bigots and militia-type individuals. While it may partly explain the high number of FBI agents, I think the main focus is the murder and kidnapping. Family, LE and all of us want these children back alive.

you're right....i really didn't know this to be the case, until i did some searching online.....not that i think it has anything to do w/this case, but it is interesting....i've read some other comments on other discussion boards, regarding this also...

[DoobieBear11]

find out which relative has been calling pops only by cell phone and you'll find the kids...


take it easy on them, they had a reason for doing what they did...

I would think that cell phone would more than likely be tapped by now if it wasn't very early in the case.

Who are you talking about in the last sentence? If the family, then there isn't a good reason for hiding the children. Certainly not with as many LE looking for them not to mention a whole nation on the lookout.

[Tom'sGirl]

I would think that cell phone would more than likely be tapped by now if it wasn't very early in the case.

Who are you talking about in the last sentence? If the family, then there isn't a good reason for hiding the children. Certainly not with as many LE looking for them not to mention a whole nation on the lookout.Thank you DB for asking what the heck was meant by "take it easy on them, they had a reason for doing what they did..."

I hope we get an answer because that was VERY WEIRD :confused:

[Rocky]

the father was cleared very early from being involved, but failed several questions on the poly afterwards, I think he spoke with the couple that has the children...

[HappyChic727]

the father was cleared very early from being involved, but failed several questions on the poly afterwards, I think he spoke with the couple that has the children...

Rocky, I thought I remembered you as being psychic. I haven't been around WS much lately - busy with other stuff. So you think that they are alive and with Steve's relatives. Well, that's always a possibility but did Steve have something to do with the murder of his own son? Did he have reason to believe that Slade wasn't his and that's why he didn't care about him? I watched Geraldo last night - he had Mark Lunsford and Steve Groene, as well as Mark Furhmann (sp?) . . . I love Mark Lunsford . . . he has a heart as big as the world and it comes out when he talks. As to Steve Groene, I don't really have a feel for him although it does appear that he looks down alot when responding to questions. Anyway, keep us posted with your crappy (I think their great) thoughts.

[Liz]

I don't want to get into conspiracy theories that have nothing to do with the Groene murders and Shasta and Dylan's disappearance, but Idaho, due to its rural nature, has a high percentage of radical bigots and militia-type individuals.


Since posting and news about this case are almost at a standstill, I really wish you'd share your knowledge about the 'radical bigots and militia types' in Idaho. This really has piqued my curiosity! :)

[dannyodie]

Since posting and news about this case are almost at a standstill, I really wish you'd share your knowledge about the 'radical bigots and militia types' in Idaho. This really has piqued my curiosity! :)
was idaho not the place where the ruby ridge thing happened years ago? wasn't that guy some sort of radical bigot? I don't know. useally I don't hear much big news from that location, the murders of the groene family has hit clear to the east coast.

[rachelslaw]

Not all, but many are!!!! It can't hurt anything, my relative wasn't right most the time, but when he was he hit it right on. You probably use to hear him on the radio Jeana...LOL...maybe not since you don't believe at all.
BUt if a psychic "Isn't right MOST of the time", wouldn't that be more of a "lucky guess" rather than psychic ability?

[Jeana (DP)]

take it easy on them, they had a reason for doing what they did...


Of course they had a reason. $$$$$$$$$$

[mysteriew]

Okay I confess. I do believe that some people do have a certain amount of psychic ability. I do believe that it is an area that is easily exploited, and that many people have been taken advantage of over this. But I do believe that some people can at times sense things that have happened.
The mention of Noreen Renier brought to mind a story that happened in Ohio in 2004. There was an 81 yo man with alzheimer's missing. he was gone for 5 mos. The family contacted Noreen Renier and she told them their father had died and she described where his body would be found. The police began searching in that area (officers described going to that area during patrols and just walking around looking) as well as organized searches. He was found within a mile of his home. An officer described that the location was exactly as Noreen had described, as far as the trees, the fence etc. He admitted he had looked in this area before because he thought the area matched her description.

Here are links to Renier's description of the event and the local paper's version. I will admit they do differ, but I saw the TV coverage and interviews at the time and many people agreed that she described the location perfectly.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Renier used "vibrations" from a toothbrush and a pair of shoes belonging to Capel to track him. She told police the body would be found in an area bounded by fields, woodlands, fences, and a water tower with an antenna on top. There would also be a large stone marker with writing on it near where horses had been.

Incredibly, Capel's body was found near a stone marker inscribed "Stone Creek" and next to a field where mounted police horses had been involved in the search. However, before police could get to the spot, Capel's remains were discovered by a hunter
http://noreenrenier.com/articles-national-enquirer-1.html

Authorities have conducted several searches since then, but this time Oxford police hired a psychic to help them focus on a specific area to search.

"We employed her services several weeks ago," said Sergeant Jim Sqauance, of the Oxford police. "She gave us information on terrain and distance and we're concentrating our search on the information she supplies us."

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2004/local/10/24/oxford_alzheimers.html

Police had also sought the help of Noreen Renier, a 67-year-old "psychic detective" from Virginia who assisted in the hunt for Laci Peterson in California and claims to have participated in 400 police investigations over 25 years.

Renier had told Oxford police this month that she believes Capel is within eight walking-minutes of his house.

"We had pretty much exhausted all traditional methods of solving this mystery," said Oxford police Sgt. Jim Squance.

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/10/25/loc_loc4search.html

[alexia]

people who have faith in Jesus but not in gnostic practice, such as psychic ability... doesn't really understand faith... or Jesus.

[close_enough]

although Dayle Hinman isn't psychic, i sure wish LE, up in Idaho, would enlist her help...she's a criminal profiler...

& speaking of psychics, i think Sylvia Browne (sp) is a joke...i've seen her on Montel a few times, in the past, & she's pitiful, imo....i don't see how that woman sleeps at night, giving all these people such vague hope....same w/that guy "crossing over"....i saw an attorney, by the name of Mickey..can't think of his last name now, but he threw a wrench in some things that Renier (sp) said too, during the Peterson case....

[close_enough]

BUt if a psychic "Isn't right MOST of the time", wouldn't that be more of a "lucky guess" rather than psychic ability?

exactly....

[Rocky]

Do you ever watch "Psychic Detectives?" Actually, there ARE a lot of them that do work with the police...Nancy Grace had Noreen Renier on last week, she does solve a lot of crimes. There was a sergeant on who was always skeptical before, but now is a believer. Noreen was right from the very beginning about Laci Peterson. Remember it was SP's mother who hired her & didn't like what she told her...the TRUTH about her son being the murderer.
:behindbar

I finally watched psychic detective and was amazed how well they have shown exactly how it happens, looking at the person's eyes, and from there the images begin.

makes me feel good knowing there are others with these visions/dreams and seeing the info comes to them the same as it does for me...

so many of you again and again say how it's full of crap...

I really don't care about the skeptics, I'm interested in hearing from the ones that believe, or have experienced it and might have something to teach the rest of us.

when I am dreaming, people say I stop breathing, and my body shakes just before I start breathing again.

I do believe each of us have a spirit, and somehow some of us can travel...

well I finally met someone that understands what's happening with me, she taught me how to do the same thing without sleeping...

I know I could write a book on what I've learned recently, and others would be very interested...

[dannyodie]

I finally watched psychic detective and was amazed how well they have shown exactly how it happens, looking at the person's eyes, and from there the images begin.

makes me feel good knowing there are others with these visions/dreams and seeing the info comes to them the same as it does for me...

so many of you again and again say how it's full of crap...

I really don't care about the skeptics, I'm interested in hearing from the ones that believe, or have experienced it and might have something to teach the rest of us.

when I am dreaming, people say I stop breathing, and my body shakes just before I start breathing again.

I do believe each of us have a spirit, and somehow some of us can travel...

well I finally met someone that understands what's happening with me, she taught me how to do the same thing without sleeping...

I know I could write a book on what I've learned recently, and others would be very interested...
rocky:
I think I know what you mean, something weird happened to me some weeks back about this case. I posted it here on ws once before and don't remember where it can be found, there is so much posted on here. the gest of it was about a dream I had some weeks after the murders, I had dreamed that I was a passenger in the back seat of a car, I could only see the backs of the two adult males in the front. and remember the cold air blowing in my face through a open window, the smell of river water, and the weirdest of it, was the sound of two small children playing and laughing but to me it sounded as if they were in a room. what really made this hit home was me seeing a small town up ahead of us, and me seeing the sign saying kelloge, kelloge is a town some 30 or so miles east of the murder scene. after posting that on websleuths someone told me that there was a town named kelloge and I almost fell out of my seat. when I had awoken, I was wet with sweat and was still slightly shaking. one day last week or so I had the same dream, same sounds, same smell in the air, same two adult males, and the same town of kelloge? I don't really understand why I would have such dreams of someplace so far off from my home.

[Beyond Belief]

rocky:
I think I know what you mean, something weird happened to me some weeks back about this case. I posted it here on ws once before and don't remember where it can be found, there is so much posted on here. the gest of it was about a dream I had some weeks after the murders, I had dreamed that I was a passenger in the back seat of a car, I could only see the backs of the two adult males in the front. and remember the cold air blowing in my face through a open window, the smell of river water, and the weirdest of it, was the sound of two small children playing and laughing but to me it sounded as if they were in a room. what really made this hit home was me seeing a small town up ahead of us, and me seeing the sign saying kelloge, kelloge is a town some 30 or so miles east of the murder scene. after posting that on websleuths someone told me that there was a town named kelloge and I almost fell out of my seat. when I had awoken, I was wet with sweat and was still slightly shaking. one day last week or so I had the same dream, same sounds, same smell in the air, same two adult males, and the same town of kelloge? I don't really understand why I would have such dreams of someplace so far off from my home.
Danny,
Kellogg could also be linked to the ecstacy drug "Special K". Kelloggs makes special K cereral. Maybe it wasn't the town but the drug.

[railbird]

I hope the police have enough sense not to put any faith in that bull crap.

I understand the skeptics but one should never disregard their intuition. It's a valuable tool and from my understanding this is what most the psychics claim - it's nothing more than a tool to help LE. It also seems that more than a few non believers in LE have had a change of heart afterall, how many times have we heard talk of cops and their "gut instincts"? It's the same thing.

In fact, I've yet to meet a person who has not experienced some form of ESP - such as thinking about someone you haven't thought of in years, only to hear from them out the clear blue.

Yes, I am sure there are plenty of charlatans out there but, I also think there is more to psychic abilities than we understand and just because we lack understanding doesn't mean it's b.s.

[Rocky]

rocky:
I think I know what you mean, something weird happened to me some weeks back about this case. I posted it here on ws once before and don't remember where it can be found, there is so much posted on here. the gest of it was about a dream I had some weeks after the murders, I had dreamed that I was a passenger in the back seat of a car, I could only see the backs of the two adult males in the front. and remember the cold air blowing in my face through a open window, the smell of river water, and the weirdest of it, was the sound of two small children playing and laughing but to me it sounded as if they were in a room. what really made this hit home was me seeing a small town up ahead of us, and me seeing the sign saying kelloge, kelloge is a town some 30 or so miles east of the murder scene. after posting that on websleuths someone told me that there was a town named kelloge and I almost fell out of my seat. when I had awoken, I was wet with sweat and was still slightly shaking. one day last week or so I had the same dream, same sounds, same smell in the air, same two adult males, and the same town of kelloge? I don't really understand why I would have such dreams of someplace so far off from my home.

I know there are many special people here at websleuths...

sounds like 2 men were involved...

you saw them close the whole time...

I was surprised when I heard they have relatives in Montana, and he would have traveled through Montana en route to Fargo, North Dakota...

[BillyGoatGruff]

This in fact may be the reason Vet, thanks!
Feds are always involved in kidnappings.

[Mabel]

Do you ever watch "Psychic Detectives?" Actually, there ARE a lot of them that do work with the police...Nancy Grace had Noreen Renier on last week, she does solve a lot of crimes. There was a sergeant on who was always skeptical before, but now is a believer. Noreen was right from the very beginning about Laci Peterson. Remember it was SP's mother who hired her & didn't like what she told her...the TRUTH about her son being the murderer.
:behindbar

Regarding the Peterson case, I don't recall Noreen actually ever giving any details about what or who she saw, although she implied (by not denying it) that Scott was involved. It was never reported that Noreen told Jackie Scott was involved. Did she mention something about Laci being hit with a pipe or a wrench? Perhaps I'm confusing her with Sandra B. who doctored wav files and managed to convince some people that she could communicate with the dead.

I don't think Noreen had any more insight than the rest of us who believed the initial evidence pointed toward Scott as the murderer.

[Rocky]

Regarding the Peterson case, I don't recall Noreen actually ever giving any details about what or who she saw, although she implied (by not denying it) that Scott was involved. It was never reported that Noreen told Jackie Scott was involved. Did she mention something about Laci being hit with a pipe or a wrench? Perhaps I'm confusing her with Sandra B. who doctored wav files and managed to convince some people that she could communicate with the dead.

I don't think Noreen had any more insight than the rest of us who believed the initial evidence pointed toward Scott as the murderer.

didn't have to be psychic to see evil in Scott the first time he was on the air...


when I first saw the kids after the kidnapping, I saw both kids alive...

did they split up because it was less chance of being recognized with one child instead of two?


this sexual predators prefers boys, so why did he keep her alive?


is Dylan in Canada?

[CaliKid]

this sexual predators prefers boys, so why did he keep her alive?
This is the one thing that really worries me about Dylan's chances of being alive. Why did Duncan have Shasta and not him?

[Liz]

rocky:
I think I know what you mean, something weird happened to me some weeks back about this case. I posted it here on ws once before and don't remember where it can be found, there is so much posted on here. the gest of it was about a dream I had some weeks after the murders, I had dreamed that I was a passenger in the back seat of a car, I could only see the backs of the two adult males in the front. and remember the cold air blowing in my face through a open window, the smell of river water, and the weirdest of it, was the sound of two small children playing and laughing but to me it sounded as if they were in a room. what really made this hit home was me seeing a small town up ahead of us, and me seeing the sign saying kelloge, kelloge is a town some 30 or so miles east of the murder scene. after posting that on websleuths someone told me that there was a town named kelloge and I almost fell out of my seat. when I had awoken, I was wet with sweat and was still slightly shaking. one day last week or so I had the same dream, same sounds, same smell in the air, same two adult males, and the same town of kelloge? I don't really understand why I would have such dreams of someplace so far off from my home.

Dannyodie, here is that post you are referred to that is in the Shasta & Dylan thread, started 6/1, and your post is on page 9, I believe.

"#225 * *
06-07-2005, 04:35 AM
dannyodie

I don't know if this is anything or not, just a strange dream I had. first of all I wonder if there is a place close to the murder scene that goes by the name of kellelog or kelloge idaho. I kept seeing a long dark road that was winding through the country side eventually it came in to a small city or town, I thought I was seeing a small sign with the name of the town, " kellog" or something like that, made me think of corn flakes. I don't know anything about idaho except they have goood potatoes. but this was a really strange dream I was having I couldn't see much of anything, it felt as if though I was being driven in that direction and I could feel the cold air coming through the car window. Like I said, I don't know if this was anything or not or just a dream because I think of this case almost day in and day out. I don't know. any help here?"

Guess what, Danny? You're not going to believe this!! Last night local KXLY showed video footage of Duncan and Shasta walking into a Conoco Conv Store/Gas station in KELLOGG, sometime before she was spotted at Denny's. I also just saw the same footage at the 4 am PDT top of the hour CNN news.
I'd be willing to bet anything that this was not Shasta and Duncan's first trip thru Kellogg together. I think they were returning from MT to Coeur d'Alene. My guess only. I guess only time will tell IF Dylan was with them, heading towards Montana.

But, how wild that you saw those kids in your dream going through the town of Kellogg, which you didn't even know existed, until I told you it did!

WOW! I'm astonished, Dannyodie and don't know quite what to think about your dream!

[kline]

Wow.

I must have missed that video footage on KXLY.Ill have to watch for it.
And yes Kellogg (I went to Junior High School there) lies between Coeur d Alene and St. Regis Montana.
Oh Lord, I truly hope they werent just returning from Montana...I would hate to think Dylan was with that Animal alive all this time until just recently.

[kpass]

Hey Liz...that was a wonderful observation! And, Dannyodie, WOW! See? I do believe everyone has some psychic ability, you definitely showed yours...too bad we don't know how to 'use it.'

[Liz]

Kline, it was on the 11 pm footage. Do you have any recollection of local news, Krem, Kxly or KHQ mentioning a red jeep trying to lure kids into the vehicle, in the last couple of months, in CDA? I swear I feel as though they did report that. I remember thinking that was pretty bold, because that particular vehicle is so easily identifiable.

[kpass]

Could he have kept her to 'lure' other kids?

[Gracelin]

"#225 * *
06-07-2005, 04:35 AM
dannyodie

I don't know if this is anything or not, just a strange dream I had. first of all I wonder if there is a place close to the murder scene that goes by the name of kellelog or kelloge idaho. I kept seeing a long dark road that was winding through the country side eventually it came in to a small city or town, I thought I was seeing a small sign with the name of the town, " kellog" or something like that, made me think of corn flakes. I don't know anything about idaho except they have goood potatoes. but this was a really strange dream I was having I couldn't see much of anything, it felt as if though I was being driven in that direction and I could feel the cold air coming through the car window. Like I said, I don't know if this was anything or not or just a dream because I think of this case almost day in and day out. I don't know. any help here?"


Danny you can slap me silly cause I really thought your dream was just that! a dream cause you were so wrapped up with this case..

Very errie...I don't know what the FBI would have thought of your E-mail..

I am sorry a thousand times for doubting you!!

Now I need you to go to sleep and e-mail with the winning lottery numbers for tonight!

[Liz]

Now I need you to go to sleep and e-mail with the winning lottery numbers for tonight!


Hahahaha! Very funny Gracelin! I'm sure he'd give them to you instead of keeping them for himself! :)

[CaliKid]

Way to go, Dannyodie and Liz!

[dannyodie]

This is the one thing that really worries me about Dylan's chances of being alive. Why did Duncan have Shasta and not him?
I can only speculate that the little girl would have been handed off to his buddy " big al " he prefers little girls and got out of prison around the same time duncan did. or he could have been going to teach her to lure other children around him or even worse, using her for financial gain. I am disturbed by the fact that dylans remains were located, even though they have not comfirmed it yet, I am almost 100 percent that dylan has already been located.

[mysteriew]

I am disturbed by the fact that dylans remains were located, even though they have not comfirmed it yet, I am almost 100 percent that dylan has already been located.

Shasta's aunt has indicated that LE has told the family they are pretty certain that the remains are Dylan according to a phone interview she gave.

[Niner]

the father was cleared very early from being involved, but failed several questions on the poly afterwards, I think he spoke with the couple that has the children...

can we say.... OOPS!! unless this Duncan guy is somehow related to Steve... :mad:

[Kim Ii]

Well...not only is Noreen not full of 'crap,' Quantico uses her to lecture in some of their classes. I've just finished reading her book...what a remarkable woman she is. Renier works solely with police departments; she will not give personal or private readings any longer. She also does not charge a huge amount for her readings/work with police departments.

I, too, believe we all have a little psychic in us...some are truly gifted in this area. And yes, Noreen does describe it as being a burden at times...I certainly wouldn't describe this as being a gift for the most part.

I like her...her book is wonderful (she also describes why they may not be right ALL the time.)

[Montana]

I would appreciate it if someone could show me any news articles stating that a psychic helped solve a crime.

Regards,

Montana

[kpass]

I would appreciate it if someone could show me any news articles stating that a psychic helped solve a crime.

Regards,

Montana

http://www.noreenrenier.com/

In 1981, when Psychic Investigator, Noreen Renier first lectured at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia, her work with police detectives was considered controversial. Now, she is a well-known psychic detective who has worked on over 400 unsolved cases with city, county, and state Law Enforcement Agencies in 38 states and 6 foreign countries. She has a unique understanding of both the police and the paranormal.

Noreen Renier has often stated a Psychic Detective should be called into an investigation as a last resort, when traditional methods have been exhausted. It's possible that Psychic Investigator, Noreen Renier has a key for re-opening your dead-end cases.

She has an impressive track record and uncanny success in finding missing persons. Perhaps Psychic Detective, Noreen Renier can help you find new leads for your unsolved cases. It is possible that the information she picks up could provide clues, or a different angle to your unsolved crime.

Rense: Did EVP Solve the Laci Peterson Case? (Sandra Belanger, January 19, 2003)
Rense: Psychic's Update on the Peterson Case (Sandra Belanger, February 8, 2003)
Rense: EVP Update in Laci Peterson Investigation (Sandra Belanger, April 20, 2003)
Rense: New EVP Session WAV Files Transcriptions (Sandra Belanger, May 21, 2003)
Rense: Verification and 'Hits' of Information Received in EVP Session Recordings (Sandra Belanger, May 21, 2003)
http://www.crimenews2000.com/lacipeterson/links.htm

http://www.courttv.com/onair/shows/psychic_detectives/

[Linda7NJ]

This is from her website...IMO It's CHEESY!!!

"
Enclosed is information for a psychic reading over the phone. Please call her office to make your appointment. The charge for your phone consultation will be $300.00. Ms. Renier only accepts money orders or certified checks.

Please send Ms. Renier a list of at least 10 questions that you would like answered, along with a small piece of your hair wrapped in aluminum foil, and your money order. Scotch tape one end of the hair strands to a piece of paper so they will not get lost.

If questions about family or friends are a part of your consultation, please send their hair individually wrapped and identified by first initial or name. Please limit this to three. If it is not possible to obtain a piece of hair, please send a recent photo. DO NOT MAIL MS. RENIER YOUR PHOTO.

Ms. Renier requests that you be alone for your psychic consultation so another person's energy does not interfere with your reading. She will tape record your phone consultation and mail you the tape. "



She simply seems a tad brighter & more ambitious than Miss Cleo or LaToya Jackson's psychic friends.

all in my opinion

[Casshew]

kpass, those aren't news article links... they are private websites where the owners can post whatever they like.

[Rocky]

I would appreciate it if someone could show me any news articles stating that a psychic helped solve a crime.

Regards,

Montana

I told everyone a month ago that the kids were alive in Montana, it makes me sick knowing they were there and not one person spread flyers,,, not one news station told people to look for them...

psychics don't get the recognition they deserve...

this is the 12th case I've been right on...


but hey, I'm a psychic and full of crap...

why listen to someone that is trying to help...

[Casshew]

Rocky, wasn't it you who said Bin Laden was killed in the Tsunami? any updates on that vision?

and can I please get the winning Ontario Lotto 649 tickets for tomorrows draw?

Thanks in advance!

[Rocky]

montana (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=671624&highlight=montana#post671624)


post #20

[kpass]

I'm with ya Rocky!

[Linda7NJ]

I told everyone a month ago that the kids were alive in Montana, it makes me sick knowing they were there and not one person spread flyers,,, not one news station told people to look for them...

psychics don't get the recognition they deserve...

this is the 12th case I've been right on...


but hey, I'm a psychic and full of crap...

why listen to someone that is trying to help...
Montana, pretty HUGE area! Now if you or anyone else could have narrowed it down to the corner of Main & 24th street Tuesday at 2:45pm , given the name or helped create an artists sketch of the perp, license plate & make & model of the vehicle, I would be super impressed!

So where exactly IS Natalee Holloway & what happened to her?

I get "hunches" too and I am most often correct, doesn't make me a psychic. The Michael Jackson verdict broke my streak:furious:

[Rocky]

Rocky, wasn't it you who said Bin Laden was killed in the Tsunami? any updates on that vision?

and can I please get the winning Ontario Lotto 649 tickets for tomorrows draw?

Thanks in advance!

first let me add, 1 minute on earth is 100 years in hell...

bin Ladin has been screaming an eternity already since Christmas...


he was meeting with his top advisors planning an attack that would destroy all the navy's standing in his way...

68 dirty bombs spread throughout the world...

14 inside the US...

all were stopped...


all thanks to a tip from our favorite little angel Danielle...


I delivered a message to Islam 3 days before Xmas in 2003...

I said "so just like that, wham Bam thank you maam, they will understand my message?"

I was told yes david, just like that...

3 days after delivering my message, almost to the minute...


an earthquake hit Bam Iran killing 38,000

I wrote the poem, Tsunami - Seeknowme in 2003 while I was receiving all these messages...

for some reason, it didn't move forward to be published until Dec 2004, postmaked dec 3rd, 22 days before 300,000 died from a tsunami...

we are 6 months from Christmas, the violence is still happening in the middle east...

again and again, I have said Islam means will of God, the will of God is peace... but does anyone listen?

there is a huge faultline running from Egypt to China...

along that faultline is the center of Islamic extremists...

if I was a leader in these areas, I would be thinking about making December 25th a day of Prayer...


for everyone else, not sure what a quake this size would do to the world, but I'd have extra water bottles... just in case...

[CaliKid]

http://www.noreenrenier.com/

In 1981, when Psychic Investigator, Noreen Renier first lectured at the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia, her work with police detectives was considered controversial. Now, she is a well-known psychic detective who has worked on over 400 unsolved cases with city, county, and state Law Enforcement Agencies in 38 states and 6 foreign countries. She has a unique understanding of both the police and the paranormal.

Noreen Renier has often stated a Psychic Detective should be called into an investigation as a last resort, when traditional methods have been exhausted. It's possible that Psychic Investigator, Noreen Renier has a key for re-opening your dead-end cases.

She has an impressive track record and uncanny success in finding missing persons. Perhaps Psychic Detective, Noreen Renier can help you find new leads for your unsolved cases. It is possible that the information she picks up could provide clues, or a different angle to your unsolved crime.

Rense: Did EVP Solve the Laci Peterson Case? (Sandra Belanger, January 19, 2003)
Rense: Psychic's Update on the Peterson Case (Sandra Belanger, February 8, 2003)
Rense: EVP Update in Laci Peterson Investigation (Sandra Belanger, April 20, 2003)
Rense: New EVP Session WAV Files Transcriptions (Sandra Belanger, May 21, 2003)
Rense: Verification and 'Hits' of Information Received in EVP Session Recordings (Sandra Belanger, May 21, 2003)
http://www.crimenews2000.com/lacipeterson/links.htm

http://www.courttv.com/onair/shows/psychic_detectives/
I remember Sandra Belanger. She was the woman who believed that Laci was speaking to her about her murder and how she'd been dumped in the water, and she recorded it on WAV files. I listened to some of them, and they freaked me out of my skin.

[Rocky]

Montana, pretty HUGE area! Now if you or anyone else could have narrowed it down to the corner of Main & 24th street Tuesday at 2:45pm , given the name or helped create an artists sketch of the perp, license plate & make & model of the vehicle, I would be super impressed!

So where exactly IS Natalee Holloway & what happened to her?

I get "hunches" too and I am most often correct, doesn't make me a psychic. The Michael Jackson verdict broke my streak:furious:


Natalee (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=693008&highlight=earthquake#post693008)

post 382

"Hi Scandi,

well first I saw her bound and tied held as a sex toy for someone with money, but after the first arrests, I saw her laying partially covered by sand...

after that, I saw an image of a small boat beaching, I think they did take her from the island out to sea.

Sunday night after her kidnapping was the time frame...


I had another dream, where her spirit was sitting on the ground hugging her body, as I approached her, she looked up and screamed, she must have been hurt pretty bad for her spirit to have been angry, then she saw the little angels with me and realized I wasn't there to hurt her... she took my hand, I closed my eyes and when I opened them again, we were in Nirvana, the garden of eden... right then the earthquake hit in San Diego and pulled me from the vision.

when I went back, she was surrounded by little angels, Danielle, jon Bonet, Samantha and soo many others, Laci was standing by the side holding Conner smiling watching her heal... I think this is where spirits go that had their life end before it's time in the distance was the rainbow that would lead her to heaven...

It was after this dream I wrote Rainbow of Life..."


Rainbow of Life

have any of you seen when kids pray that they glow,
softly surrounding them, colors of a rainbow

coincidence not, destiny lies before us
innocent children accept without a fuss
temptation, pressure, not always doing what's right
intelligents drawing so many from the light

tragedy strikes, bringing us down to our knees
closing our eyes, asking God to help us please
first just a twinkle, touches your heart
feeling of warmth and that's just the start

the pain and darkness explode with brilliant light
peaceful serenity settles over the night
nirvana is where dreams and heaven meet
shady riverbank, lean back, rest your feet

deepest truth, reach out to find that radiant glow
your pot of gold lies at the end of life's rainbow. . . .


Copyright ©2005 Rocky

[Rocky]

I remember Sandra Belanger. She was the woman who believed that Laci was speaking to her about her murder and how she'd been dumped in the water, and she recorded it on WAV files. I listened to some of them, and they freaked me out of my skin.


wanna know what really freaked me out...

I flew into San Jose for an interview the Day Connor washed up on the shoreline...

the day I flew in to start... Laci washed up...


I told everyone the first time I saw Scott I knew he was guilty and struck Laci down in a rage...

[Rocky]

Montana, pretty HUGE area! Now if you or anyone else could have narrowed it down to the corner of Main & 24th street Tuesday at 2:45pm , given the name or helped create an artists sketch of the perp, license plate & make & model of the vehicle, I would be super impressed!

So where exactly IS Natalee Holloway & what happened to her?

I get "hunches" too and I am most often correct, doesn't make me a psychic. The Michael Jackson verdict broke my streak:furious:


well, I think if I could have been in the area, I could have found them, I saw moutains I traveled through 20 years ago, the kids weren't afraid at the time, I can't explain it, but that's why I thought they were safe.

I finally watched psychic detective, and I notice they make sure they are connected before they move forward, but then they go to the site. So they are close enough to find what they are looking for.

Maybe I'll get Project ORN funded to the point I can start traveling to work on these cases that really need help.

I think if I would have gone to Minn I could have found little beaner before she was killed...


It's not a science, the outcome isn't gauranteed, but shouldn't we at least try?

the psychic that worked for San Diego police contacted me, and said I shouldn't give up, mistakes happen, but if one child is saved by your efforts... it's all worthwhile, so I keep on trying...


It really hurts knowing I could have saved Dylan, I knew he was alive, but no way to get there to help... :sick:

[jaybird]

originally posted by Rocky:

I think if I would have gone to Minn I could have found little beaner before she was killed...



I must have missed something....are you referring to Leanna Warner? And if so...what do you know or feel about that case?

[Rocky]

originally posted by Rocky:

I think if I would have gone to Minn I could have found little beaner before she was killed...



I must have missed something....are you referring to Leanna Warner? And if so...what do you know or feel about that case?


she was alive for a long time after her kidnapping...

the neighbor didn't do it, someone killed him knowing he would be perfect for taking a fall knowing he was a molester in the past.

I saw Beaner in a sand pit, a guy in overalls burying her...

[jaybird]

oh, that just breaks my heart.

[Rocky]

I'm soo sorry, I guess after spending 3 1/2 years around these cases has made me a little calloused, if you were here then, we had hundreds of us frantically trying to find her, we knew her time was short, but couldn't find her quick enough...

[jaybird]

You really don't have anything to apologize for, this little girl just got to me. I have a link for her on my website....do you think her murderer will ever be found? and not to keep buggin you, but do you feel anything about Joanna Rogers? (www.bringjohome.info (http://www.bringjohome.info))

[Rocky]

You really don't have anything to apologize for, this little girl just got to me. I have a link for her on my website....do you think her murderer will ever be found? and not to keep buggin you, but do you feel anything about Joanna Rogers? (www.bringjohome.info (http://www.bringjohome.info))

" came home from her job at a sandwich shop about 12:20 a.m. on May 4th, and had a short conversation with her mother before apparently going to bed. At 7 a.m., there was no trace of Joanna Rogers. "


someone she met at the sandwhich shop came by her house and picked her up. did any of her friends mention she did drugs?

she's 18 now, and not living in Texas any longer...

look for dark hair instead of a redhead...


I think you'll find her in Phoenix...

[mysteriew]

For those looking for links to actual deaths that have been solved by psychics, look earlier in this thread to post #41, by me. I heard on local news one of the LE officers who had been searching for that guy. According to his statement he had been looking in that area for some time, because he had noticed it by driving through the area. According to him, it had all of the landmarks that N. Reiner had described. However, the body was covered and was not found until a full search was done.

[dannyodie]

I would appreciate it if someone could show me any news articles stating that a psychic helped solve a crime.

Regards,

Montana
there is a misconception that psychics solve crimes. to make it clear phychics do not solve crimes, mostly they are able to see visions that others don't have the ability to see, they have the ability to block out the outside world and tune in to their minds ability. I have had people ask me how I'am able to just that, I can't really tell you how a physchic mind works, tell me how your brain works. law enforcement is the force that solves a crime, a physchic only provides them with the visions of events, its up to a investigator to try and make a picture of a vision that he can't see. kinda like putting a puzzle together and finding out the main piece of it is gone and then trying to make that piece based on what your mind thinks it should look like. everyone of us has a physchic ability, but the large percentage of us are unable to tap into it, yoga is a very good start at being in true unison with your own mind and spirit. I am used to ridicule and so on, in fact so much that I have been able to ignore it.

[Rocky]

phychics do not solve crimes, .


hey dannyodie,

not all of us are chics... :cool:

[Rocky]

I am used to ridicule and so on, in fact so much that I have been able to ignore it.


most people have no idea how real it is, and for all of the skeptics, I used to be one myself...

I never really knew for sure if there was life after death...

but now I have spirits adn angels dropping by at all hours of the day and night.

I've seen Nirvana, the original garden of Eden...

I've stood in the rainbow and looked into heaven...


to me, there is no question on whether it's real...

when I find a spirit like Natalee, I felt her take my hand, I could smell the ocean breeze, I could feel it blowing in my face.

I could feel the twisted evil behind her death...

so far I've always been protected from the evil, I don't explore the crime or how it happened...

I don't want to see a pedovile hurting a child... ever

I just like to find the lost spirit, and bring them to the light so they don't wander around hurt and lonely for an eternity...

once they have a suspect, I can look into them for answers. Everyone's gifts are different. Westerfield and Peterson were done the moment I looked into them, one thing I find about all the murderers I've seen so far, they all killed so their life could go on with no problems, they think they are smarter than everyone and will get away with it...


Up with this **** I will not put!!!

[miimaa]

she was alive for a long time after her kidnapping...

the neighbor didn't do it, someone killed him knowing he would be perfect for taking a fall knowing he was a molester in the past.

I saw Beaner in a sand pit, a guy in overalls burying her...


Rocky.. I live in the Chisholm area and have my own hunch who this guy is. Can you say anything else about him other than he had on overalls? Age? Marital status? How far was the sand pit from her house and what direction?

Thanks.

[Rocky]

Rocky.. I live in the Chisholm area and have my own hunch who this guy is. Can you say anything else about him other than he had on overalls? Age? Marital status? How far was the sand pit from her house and what direction?

Thanks.

one of the psychics here saw him in an old blue pickup truck...

I think he worked around one of the mills.

[Rocky]

wow they are erasing the Natalee forum...

hundreds of pages about to disappear with a click...

[BillyGoatGruff]

I would think with 70-100 investigators, they have time to follow every tip. Even the dreams people call in about. ;) But, I really don't know. It just sounds like an awful lot of investigators.

I know they went thru that 800 tons of garbage at the landfill in no time flat!

Does anyone know how is it that Kootenai County was assigned SO MANY federal investigators for this case? On what basis?
Kidnapping is a federal crime. And it appears drugs may have been involved as well, at least initially. No doubt they had DEA and FBI on the case. But I can't imagine the county has that much of an investigative team to begin with. They're not LA or Vegas or even Salt Lake City.

[Liz]

I wonder if a Psychic has been called in...I watched Nancy Grace last night, she had Noreen Renier on, she does help with a lot of these cases.

http://members.atlantic.net/~nrenier/


Well, we may finally have an answer to your question from so long ago, kpass.

I stumbled upon this link (http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news/bylines.asp?bylinename=Taryn%20Brodwater
) and the blurb below that apparently ran in the Spokesman Review today. I am unable to get the rest of the article. Hopefully maybe someone else can?

Psychic used in Groene search(12/6/2005)

Just days before Shasta Groene was found, the lead detective in the case began working with a psychic investigator hired by the girl's father. Shasta was found before tips that psychic Noreen Renier provided could be used, but Renier said she's confident that she had "nailed it" and that she saw where Joseph Duncan had been holding the Groene children hostage.


I'm pretty sure that one of WS members contacted Steve and suggested it might behoove him to contact Noreen. I hope that member reads this.

[dragonfly]

Liz, Sorry I started a new thread with this info ... but here is the entire article.

Psychic used in Groene search
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/sect...oene/?ID=105027 (http://www.spokesmanreview.com/sections/groene/?ID=105027)
Psychometrist says she saw where abducted children were taken

Just days before Shasta Groene was found, the lead detective in the case began working with a psychic investigator hired by the girl's father.
Shasta was found before tips that psychic Noreen Renier provided could be used, but Renier said she's confident that she had "nailed it" and that she saw where Joseph Duncan had been holding the Groene children hostage.

By the time of the June 30 session with Renier, Shasta and her brother, Dylan, had been missing for more than a month. Hundreds of tips and possible sightings had been reported, but detectives had few leads.

"I was willing to try just about anything in an effort to rescue those two kids," said Kootenai County Sheriff's Detective Brad Maskell. "This case was the first where I actually participated in a (psychic) session. It was interesting. It was obviously unusual."
Because of Duncan's upcoming trial, scheduled to begin in April, Maskell said he couldn't discuss specifics of the session. Though many things Renier told him during the session were very general and could be interpreted several ways, Maskell said some of the information was very similar to what detectives learned after Duncan's arrest in the murder and kidnapping case.

Though Renier didn't want to discuss particulars of the Groene case, she did say that she described a wooded area to Maskell.

"I think I did see where (Duncan) had them," Renier said.

Authorities said Duncan kept Dylan and Shasta Groene at remote campsites in Western Montana. Though he allegedly killed Dylan, Duncan returned to Coeur d'Alene with Shasta on July 2 where he was arrested at a restaurant.

The session was conducted over the phone – with hundreds of miles separating Maskell and Renier, who lives on the East Coast. Renier charges $1,000 per case.

Distance, Renier said, is no object.

She's a psychometrist. Basically, Renier said, she touches an object belonging to a missing person or a murder victim and gets an impression from that object. She said she can see, hear and feel the actions or experiences of a victim or murderer.

In the Groene case, Renier said she was mailed toys belonging to both children. Because the toys were from their father's home, and not the Wolf Lodge home where the children's mother, older brother and mother's boyfriend were killed, Renier said she was limited in seeing what had taken place at that murder scene.

Certain objects are more easily read, she said. In a homicide case, that might be something off the victim's body, like a watch or a shoe, she said.

"If they have a murder weapon, that's perfect," she said.

In a missing person's case, Renier said, she asks for something that nobody other than the victim would use, like a toothbrush or hairbrush.

Renier has worked on more than 450 cases in her 30-year career as a psychic detective. She said it's important to note that psychics don't solve cases – they just help police.

Renier has been featured on Court TV's "Psychic Detectives" show, but it's unclear how Steve Groene learned of Renier. She doesn't solicit families, she said, and only works with detectives.

Steve Groene couldn't be reached for comment Monday.

Maskell and Coeur d'Alene FBI Supervisor Donald Robinson said investigators received many tips from psychics during the search for the missing kids. Those tips were evaluated using the same criteria investigators use for any other lead, Robinson said.

"A lot of these psychic tips and leads are fairly ambiguous," Robinson said. "Like, 'I see a yellow house on a street with trees.' "

Robinson said investigators are more likely to seriously consider a tip that's specific and that they can take action on – whether it comes from a psychic or elsewhere.

[Liz]

Liz, Sorry I started a new thread with this info ... but here is the entire article.


Thanks, Dragonfly, for providing the text! :)
We must have found that article at the same time! I almost started a new thread but I decided to scroll through the pages of threads and see if there was an applicable thread. I was just in the process of replying to your thread and *poof* it went bye-bye.

I'm sorry that if my posting it after your posting, seemed like I was pushing you to remove your thread, which truly was not the case. I didn't even know you'd started a thread, as I was busily scolling through eight pages of threads looking to see if there was a suitable thread to post to. Then of course I had to read some of the postings once I found it. No hard feelings, I hope!
:blowkiss:

[dragonfly]

Of course not! Always better to consolidate the discussion...

Thanks Liz.
:)

[mysteriew]

Noreen Renier is supposed to be good, she has worked on some cases in Cincinnati area, and while her tips don't say they are held here, and here is how you get there- she has previously been good in the descriptions of the site. It is then up to LE to take the description of the site and find it based on description only.
Her website:
http://www.noreenrenier.com/

Evidently she has something similiar to a fan club:
http://members.aol.com/garypos/Renier_list.html

much much more info out there on her if you are interested.

[tired.old.hag]

Thank you so much for posting this info, Liz & Dragonfly. I wondered a lot if LE had worked with a psychic on this case. Noreen is so good - I really admire her.

I wish she could go out there - to the campsite as well as to the house. I think she might be able to hone in on who Duncan called during that time, who he sent pictures and videos to, and who may have been helping him during that time. She might even be able to see his PGP key.

Of course, it would be horrifying for her if she had to get in Duncan's head to do it. I wonder if she'd be willing to do it. She might be able to see other children he's killed, and where their bodies are so they can be brought home to rest at peace by people who care.

[leann coburn]

Some of what is being stated here sounds like the Black Crowes hit that said"she says she talks to angels, yeah, she said they call her right by her name". And then she draws the drapes down tight. She knows when the pain comes, everything is gonna be alright. However unfortunately, the "pain" is the pain of a needle injection. And she thinks she talks to angels.

Angels come in many kinds and in many ranks. Despite what others may think, there are angels that are there to trick mankind. These would presumably be the angels who rebelled against god making man in his own image. Now I have always been told that it is almost impossible to tell the good angel from the evil angel when going into this realm. So I'm sure you have your methods of protection, but be careful.
The race to attain nirvana or wisdom on earth can lead to spiritual "drowning".
That's what it is called when we linger too long and bring things back that have attached themselves to us. And these things continue to profess that they are truthful, while they are draining you of energy.

I found out the hard way when I was in my late 20's that enlightenment can come at a great cost. I felt my soul leave my body and cling like it was attached by a baloon. I was unable to adjust to this for several months. I could not drive or even converse rationally. When I went to the local jewish counseling center for help, they said "maybe you reached a sort of enlightenment and it just, for lack of a better term, fried your circuits". It took about a year to fully come back in spirit in my own body. This was not fun; it was a nightmare that went on for what seemed like forever.

Be careful everyone. I would think the hierarchy of angels is much more dangerous to fool around w/ than posting info on the net. A kind of spy ware that they use, I want no part of. I hope all of your trips into the astral plane are safe for you all, but please protect yourself. I can still feel that coldness, just like a little bit of death with me every day. What a foul spirit. Thank god for counselors and proper medication.

Don't drown in too much knowledge. It grows in the brain like weeds in a waste area and it can block out other thoughts. Your entire life, so bless you all and walk carefully there.

But don't give up. Just don't press as hard as I did, because when knowledge comes poring in all of a sudden, it can overwhelm us and we literally drown in it. Wisdom is a virgin to those who know her not; she is a willful lustful partner to those who know her.

jmo

[leann coburn]

I would also point out that satan (lucifer) is said to be the most beautiful creature to lay your eyes on. You would look and say "surely there is no evil here". They don't like mankind (a third of them) and they are jealous of the place we were given in the whole plan. That's why most of the evil in this world is hidden by such shiny packaging and beautiful bows. To trick us. Get any of these creatures in your head and you will fight a fierce battle or lose if you do not know what has happened.

Everything that glitters and attracts us is not really gold. Evil spirits just know what bait to use to reel in the most humans (sexual deviance, violence, alcohol, heavy drugs, certain music, etc...the most beautiful people as spokesmen for the cause). In general, you could look to hollywood as a shining example of a place w/a reputation for glamour and stars and light and parties. But when you really look at it, it's a slimepit that you wouldn't want to live in and all the while it devours young people, one by one. It's a hungry element and a lion needs a lot of meat.

jmo

[leann coburn]

One last thought: thus logic would tell us that in any group of sensitives or psychics, a certain amount of them are being tricked but are not aware of this. And some of them are aware of it, but unable to break the chains. So how would any one person know which one to believe? I guess only by examining the fruits of their labor in the past. But yet this doesn't mean that people like Noreen R are even aware if they are being tricked by an angel or spirit that just so happens to guide her correctly, for its own unknown purpose.

Rocky and all, could you elaborate on how you think you can get around a wisdom and hierarchy that is basically split 2/3 to 1/3 for just straight out eleminating mankind? And I know you believe in angels and all because you have stated such, and I admit I share your belief. But could someone give me an answer more specific than "I pray, ask god for help, light candles, invoke and and call a spirit guide that I trust (or trust the one that comes into my mind)". I don't think this is anything but another joke on us humans. We can't protect ourselves w/such simple means. If you really believe, then you know that 1/3 of the angels at least has a final solution in mind for mankind. Mainly because lucifer was god's righthand man and felt betrayed that man was given eternal life. Just like the angels. He was sooooo jealous...he hates us all you know. And I can almost see why, I wouldn't have wanted to play second fiddle to mankind either.

This all leads to the question of whether a psychic can even trust himself. We all see things differently, never the same. Guys, how do you know who you are dealing with? Beezelbub, pazuzu, amsarac, lucifer, michael, gabriel or whomever? I'd like an answer that's well thought out and I respect everyone who is trying to put poeces together on this thread, for I do believe. I thank you in advance.

[Linda7NJ]

:waitasec: That's deep!

[Niner]

again and again, I have said Islam means will of God, the will of God is peace... but does anyone listen?

there is a huge faultline running from Egypt to China...

along that faultline is the center of Islamic extremists...

if I was a leader in these areas, I would be thinking about making December 25th a day of Prayer...


for everyone else, not sure what a quake this size would do to the world, but I'd have extra water bottles... just in case...

okay, Rocky... I'll be waiting and ready for this quake... :cool:

[Rocky]

Tomorrow, you'll all know...

I sat down and let my fingers do the talking last night, and after I finished read it over, I'm impressed, a message that all will understand...


and just so you all know, I'm hoping that this message is going to buy Islam a little more time.


I don't want another Christmas to end in disaster

[Rocky]

11th Commandment and final Scroll (http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33910)

Three of my friends that I have shared this with have put it up over their door, and have reported amazing results...

2 were having marital problems, and haven't slept in the same bedroom in years... They are snuggling at night again now, one friend has had a cronic cough for 8 months... it stopped...

for those of you that don't know what evil spirits are capable of, they can affect your physical and emotional health...

They can't stay inside of you walking under this commandment...

If you place these words over all the entrances to your house, they can no longer enter and bother your family...

Let me know if any of you try it and get dizzy the first time you walk through the door...

[scandi]

Rocky, ia this what you put over your door:

I said "I have a message for you from your Prophet Muhhamud, it is the the 11th commandment given to you by the One."

[ 11:1 the Will of God is Peace ] He mentioned it is important to remember this is the 11th Commandment, and the first 10 must be followed.

he says you are to hang these tablets over the entrances to all of your Mosques and Shrines, all who walk under it will be touched by God's word. You will see many feel dizzy, some will faint. Anyone who believes in God and knows how to talk with him will get a confirmation that what I am sharing with you is the truth.

"Feather Of Faith"

many know me as a poet, changing the world as we know it

martyrs of Islam, important warning call
fear of God's power should be known by all
The meaning of Islam is Will of God
The Will of God is Peace, lost oxes plod

the eagle has vision seeing the path
lion guards the entrance, terrible wrath
hurting women and children, deepest sin
erasing your name and also your kin

soul barbequing, burning fires of hell
no paradise realized as they fell
destruction, violence, filled with dispair
tools of the devil, too late for prayer

look inside, take the evil from your heart
forgiveness, scale of justice, glowing start
molehill of grief or mountain of kindness
stumbling through darkness, knowing truths blindness

judgement coming do you weigh good or bad
earth angel asked, left you happy or sad....

Copyright ©2005 Rocky Shorz


Thanks Rocky,
Scandi

[Rocky]

11:1 the Will of God is Peace


Scandi

That's all you need over your doorway...

[scandi]

Thank you Rocky. I think I will put it up with your poem and roll it like a little scroll.

:blowkiss: Scandi

[Rocky]

so what did you think of the message?

no one has said a word in the thread yet...

[scandi]

To me it says that this huge area of the world is ruked by a faith that literally means The Will of God ~ Islam, but what all these millions of people have lost is peace, which is what Rocky tells us is the center of the Will or desire of God for this land.

And it gives me a feeling that those of the Islam faith should go back to the root or the beginning of their religion which was one in unison with Christinity. Oh, I'm tired and have maybe taken things from your other poems here. I'll rethink it tomorrow.

The basic meaning though is that if those of the Islam faith, who are in general not warriors, but rather make war, if they don't come to realize what their religion means at the core, which is peace, the world could be in for great tragedy, and we don't want that this Christmas time or any time in the future.


Scandi

[tired.old.hag]

11:1 the Will of God is Peace

That's all you need over your doorway...
Hugs to you, Rocky. Hope you are well, and that your holidays will be pleasant. Thank you for the message above. It helps me more than you can imagine :)


Okay here goes. I've been thinking a lot recently about Sadako. There's a Japanese legend that if you fold one thousand paper origami cranes, the gods will answer a wish for you. Sadako folded one thousand origami cranes, in hopes of the end of war. That's the story in a nutshell.

I keep thinking about this because I want to do something during Duncan's trial to show support of his prosecution, and support of the Groene and McKenzie families.

I'm afraid we're going to see pedophiles show up in CdA in organized protests of sex registries, etc, and exploiting this tragedy to spread their rhetoric and terroristic message. I don't want that to happen without a bigger response from the 'good' side of the world. You know, good vs evil.

What if people made thousands of cranes (hopefully out of biodegradable rice paper lol), wrote that message on each one, and showered CdA with them? Including on top of the Kootenai County jail and the courthouse where the trial is held?

Personally, I don't believe in charms or totems -- I don't believe physical objects (like the cranes) have any power in and of themselves. But, although I'm not at all religious in the traditional sense, I'm very spiritual. I do believe strongly that prayer -- positive thoughts -- repeatedly sent, especially by great numbers of people, do have an effect.

So whereas I don't believe the cranes themselves would have any effect, I do believe that the positive thoughts and prayers and wishes people would have while making them, and writing that good message on them, would have an effect. Yes, even on the evil that is embodied in Duncan.

Further, I believe it's very necessary that all people of good heart who recognize the evil that is Duncan must act.

Again, the cranes themselves would have no effect. But the positive thoughts and prayers and wishes expressed while making them would. And what the physical cranes would do is provide a very visible and obvious sign, and reminder each day of the trial, that good is present and fighting evil and will never allow evil to enter the world unchecked.

There are people across the country who want to do something during this trial, and don't know what to do. Something like this is inexpensive, easy enough that even the disabled (like me), children, and those with little time can do it.

I love the vision of CdA sprinkled with something that physically represents good. Yeah, I know it's crazy and childish, but it's also comforting and, I believe, effective.

What do you all think?

[GreekSong]

Wow. I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but I just scanned some of the posts. Heavy.

But anyway. TOH, I remember reading that book several years ago. It's always stuck with me. I think paper cranes are a great idea! Like you, I'm more spiritual than religious and I believe in prayer. And also like you, I don't believe objects themselves have any sort of power, but thoughts can be very effective. Something a yoga instructor always tells me is, "Thoughts become intentions become reality."

And it certainly is something everybody can do. I can learn how to make paper cranes easily enough, and even broke little me can afford paper.

And I'm sure you've already thought of this, but we'd have to work this out with the powers that be in CdA. Good intentions or not, I don't know how they'd like it if there were unexpectedly a bunch of paper cranes all over the city, lol.

[Rocky]

Hugs to you, Rocky. Hope you are well, and that your holidays will be pleasant. Thank you for the message above. It helps me more than you can imagine :)


I keep thinking about this because I want to do something during Duncan's trial to show support of his prosecution, and support of the Groene and McKenzie families.

I'm afraid we're going to see pedophiles show up in CdA in organized protests of sex registries, etc, and exploiting this tragedy to spread their rhetoric and terroristic message. I don't want that to happen without a bigger response from the 'good' side of the world. You know, good vs evil.

But, although I'm not at all religious in the traditional sense, I'm very spiritual. I do believe strongly that prayer -- positive thoughts -- repeatedly sent, especially by great numbers of people, do have an effect.

I do believe that the positive thoughts and prayers and wishes people would have while making them, and writing that good message on them, would have an effect. Yes, even on the evil that is embodied in Duncan.

Further, I believe it's very necessary that all people of good heart who recognize the evil that is Duncan must act.


Duncan thought he was possessed by the Devil towards the end.

I wonder what would happen if he walked under a doorway with the 11th commandment over it?

I was told it will do excorcisms on people that are possessed by evil...


could we protect our children by just hanging it over the doors into the house? A pedovile being influenced by evil spirits suddenly waking up at the doorway of someone's house wondering what he is doing...

[Gracelin]

so what did you think of the message?

no one has said a word in the thread yet...
11:1 the Will of God is Peace is a BEAUTIFUL passage, As a christian with only a piece of palm hanging over the front door, I wrote the passage on the palm. and there it will hang until next year.

I think your message would be better heard, with less detail.
Blessing to you
Grace

[Rocky]

11:1 the Will of God is Peace is a BEAUTIFUL passage, As a christian with only a piece of palm hanging over the front door, I wrote the passage on the palm. and there it will hang until next year.

I think your message would be better heard, with less detail.
Blessing to you
Grace

Hi Grace,

which parts would you cut out?

[GreekSong]

I think the 11th Commandment is a beautiful message. Although, I'm still not clear how you're supposed to do it...

[tired.old.hag]

Duncan thought he was possessed by the Devil towards the end.

I wonder what would happen if he walked under a doorway with the 11th commandment over it?

I was told it will do excorcisms on people that are possessed by evil...


could we protect our children by just hanging it over the doors into the house? A pedovile being influenced by evil spirits suddenly waking up at the doorway of someone's house wondering what he is doing...

Hi Rocky :) I didn't take Duncan's blogs as him thinking he was possessed by the devil, because of when he said (I think in his very last post) that he uses the term 'demons' in him for convenience. I took his meaning to be the way BTK refers to the 'Factor X' in him. These guys (serial killers, serial rapist, sexual psychopaths) seem to be very much aware that they have that evil desire to seriously harm others, and that other people don't have that.

Nevertheless, I would find it VERY interesting to see what happens if the peace message were placed over the cell door (and window if they have one) of every violent criminals cell. Maybe up over courtroom doors and windows etc too.

Personally, I believe that acts of faith and belief and spirituality like these definitely have effects. And I also think they're necessary, along with many other things, to ensure that the manifestation of good in the world is always at a constant more intense strength than the manifestations of evil (such as Duncan).

[Montanagirl]

It isn't that I don't believe in psychics and all, but I think I might have missed this 'big quake' that happened along a 'huge fault' from Eqypt to China around about December 25th.

[Rocky]

we are 6 months from Christmas, the violence is still happening in the middle east...

again and again, I have said Islam means will of God, the will of God is peace... but does anyone listen?

there is a huge faultline running from Egypt to China...

along that faultline is the center of Islamic extremists...

if I was a leader in these areas, I would be thinking about making December 25th a day of Prayer...


for everyone else, not sure what a quake this size would do to the world, but I'd have extra water bottles... just in case...

I just went back to see when I was talking about the earthquake in Asia, this was the day before the London Bombing.

and a little over a month before the first major quake hit Pakistan, with another that followed right behind.

The London Bombers were from Pakistan...

[Montanagirl]

I just went back to see when I was talking about the earthquake in Asia, this was the day before the London Bombing.

and a little over a month before the first major quake hit Pakistan, with another that followed right behind.

The London Bombers were from Pakistan...
Sorry, but I'm confused. The London Bombings took place in July, the major quake in Pakistan was in October. All the suspected suicide terrorists that were involved in the London bombings were all British born and bred. All were of Middle Eastern or African descent, but all were British nationals. They went on to arrest a few Somali nationals later that were believed to be involved, but none were from Pakistan. You can check the news reports. So I guess I still don't see how your predictions were right................

[Rocky]

Montana,

The reason I thank you for pointing that out, was I had forgotten how the messages were going crazy before the London Bombing, I posted that on July 6th, 2005. The London Bombing was the following Day, the poem Feather of Faith was written 3 days before the first Pakistan/India earthquake.

Isarael moved from the Gaza Strip just in Time for the Festival of Shelters, Katrina and Rita followed and behind that the big earthquake that hit in Pakistan/Aghganistan.

I guess what you don't understand is these dreams aren't produced by a TV station fed to you so your brain understands them. They come in flashes, it can take days or years to understand what you have seen...

I wish there were glasses that improved visions...

[Rocky]

Sorry, but I'm confused. The London Bombings took place in July, the major quake in Pakistan was in October. All the suspected suicide terrorists that were involved in the London bombings were all British born and bred. All were of Middle Eastern or African descent, but all were British nationals. They went on to arrest a few Somali nationals later that were believed to be involved, but none were from Pakistan. You can check the news reports. So I guess I still don't see how your predictions were right................

London Bombers (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/18/london.attacks/) :razz:

The men -- both British citizens of Pakistani origin, born in the United Kingdom -- were photographed by immigration upon their arrival at Karachi airport.

No one has said why they traveled to Pakistan, but investigators have been looking at the Pakistani connection since the bombers were identified.

[GreekSong]

Guys, I hate to sound snippy, but does it really matter? What's the point in talking about it now, especially when it has nothing to do with the Groene case...

[Rocky]

Guys, I hate to sound snippy, but does it really matter? What's the point in talking about it now, especially when it has nothing to do with the Groene case...

if you only knew...

This case hurt me more than any of the others, because I know both children could have been saved, if the FBI only would have listened... :sick:

I loved her interview, and watching her send balloons to heaven for her brother...