Timeline of residences

[JerseyGirl]

Since Raven moved around a lot, perhaps this thread will be helpful to keep track of his residences over the years.

[PrayersForMaura]

1979 to 1994
Lived in numerous places in San Diego

1994 to 1998
10798 Heather Ridge Road, Sandy, Utah

Fall 1998 to August 1999
Lived at College in Buena Vista, Virginia
(attending college for 2 years, dropped out?)

August 1999 to mid-to-late 2001?
Lived in Fredericksburg, VA (since Aug. 2000)

Sometime in late 2001/early 2002 ? (unconfirmed)
Raven moved back to Utah

2003 Moved to NC ? (unconfirmed)

August 2004 til April 2005?
2606 FERRAND DR
DURHAM, NC 27705-1738


Also:
R Abaroa
Ravenstree
PO Box 21603
Hillsborough NC 27278

[JerseyGirl]

I've copied & pasted this from the original thread. These are states where records were found for Raven during the years listed. Copy & paste follows:


So there are background reports available, with address information, for Raven Abaroa in the following states on the following dates:

March 1999 - Virginia
July 2001 - Virginia & Utah (This Utah address also includes the name Derek Abaroa for the same time.)
October 2002 - Virginia & North Carolina
March 2003 - Arizona (This address includes the names Mildred, Fred, Michele, Steven, and Ramon. Four names from this group are available in May 2001 at an address in California with MUCH different ages listed. :waitasec: )
August 2003 - Utah
October 2003 - Virginia
June 2004 - North Carolina
January 2005 - North Carolina
May 2005 - North Carolina

What does it all mean? I have no idea. LOL. But it was fun searching for it since I can't find anything else about him as of yet.

Does it mean that Raven used addresses in those different states at the same time?

[ewwwinteresting]

1979 to 1994
Lived in numerous places in San Diego

1994 to 1998
10798 Heather Ridge Road, Sandy, Utah

Fall 1998 to August 2000
Lived at College in Buena Vista, Virginia
(attending college for 2 years, dropped out?)


August 2000 to mid-to-late 2001?
Lived in Fredericksburg, VA (since Aug. 2000)


1 College Hill Drive
Buena Vista, VA

5008 Sideburn Rd
Fiarfax, VA

11138 Sunburst Lane
Fredericksburg, VA

1006 Jefferson Davis Hwy
Fredericksburg, VA (This address showed up for Janet, but not Raven)



August 2004 to April 26, 2005
2606 FERRAND DR
DURHAM, NC 27705-1738



Now, we just need timelines for the addresses....

[PrayersForMaura]

I've copied & pasted this from the original thread. These are states where records were found for Raven during the years listed. Copy & paste follows:


So there are background reports available, with address information, for Raven Abaroa in the following states on the following dates:

March 1999 - Virginia
July 2001 - Virginia & Utah (This Utah address also includes the name Derek Abaroa for the same time.)
October 2002 - Virginia & North Carolina
March 2003 - Arizona (This address includes the names Mildred, Fred, Michele, Steven, and Ramon. Four names from this group are available in May 2001 at an address in California with MUCH different ages listed. :waitasec: )
August 2003 - Utah
October 2003 - Virginia
June 2004 - North Carolina
January 2005 - North Carolina
May 2005 - North Carolina

What does it all mean? I have no idea. LOL. But it was fun searching for it since I can't find anything else about him as of yet.

Does it mean that Raven used addresses in those different states at the same time?
other than the arizona, that mostly jives with what i've found and listed.
Raven moved back to Utah for a bit and worked there in 2001 while Janet got accepted back to school in Virginia after having taken a year off ...
then Raven moved back with Janet in 2002.
The virginia addresses were probably for Janet in 2001 and 2002.

[ewwwinteresting]

other than the arizona, that mostly jives with what i've found and listed.
Raven moved back to Utah for a bit and worked there in 2001 while Janet got accepted back to school in Virginia after having taken a year off ...
then Raven moved back with Janet in 2002.
The virginia addresses were probably for Janet in 2001 and 2002.
How do we know Raven moved back to Utah again?

[JerseyGirl]

The virginia addresses were probably for Janet in 2001 and 2002.That could be.

What's up with the Arizona listing? We've never heard that he lived in Arizona yet when I did searches a week or so ago, he was listed in Arizona with several people that we know to be relatives of his. When I went to the same search site just now, his name is no longer on that list. :waitasec:

[ewwwinteresting]

Mother: Karyn A. Abaroa Bolton: 10798 Heather Ridge Dr, Sandy, UT
born in 1958

Stepfather: James F. Bolton: 10798 Heather Ridge Dr, Sandy, UT
born in 1957

Uncle on Mother's side?: Fred Abaroa shows numerous addresses in Kennebunkport, Maine (someone stated he was going to stay in Maine soon)

Uncle on Mother's side?: Steven Abaroa shows addresses in Arizona.

Derek Abaroa, same Sandy Utah address
born in 1981, Shiloh Abaroa, same Utah address
born in 1982, Also shows a Jacob, same Utah address
born in 1978.

These are probably his blood siblings and has other step-brothers and sisters....I haven't searched the whole Bolton name!!!!

[PrayersForMaura]

Found this address on the archived site
July 20, 2001
"11138-J Sunburst Ln, Fredericksburg, VA 22407 "
This was either a residence or place where RAven had an office.
It appears to have an apartment or suite letter of "J" ...

ewwwinteresting, this address matches one you found, but it has the "J" with it... I found it at this link at the bottom of the page:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010726203120/www.2nutmeg.net/

[PrayersForMaura]

I was just sent a message from a credible source that Janet and Raven lived
here for a few years before moving to Durham:

Smithfield Virginia

I will update my list of addresses and hope the times are close to being accurate.

[PrayersForMaura]

1979 to 1994 (times estimated, not confirmed)
Lived in numerous places in San Diego

1994 to 1998
10798 Heather Ridge Road, Sandy, Utah

Fall 1998 to August 2000 (times estimated, not confirmed)
Lived at College in Buena Vista, Virginia
(attending college for 2 years, dropped out?)


August 2000 to mid-2001? (times estimated, not confirmed)
Lived in Fredericksburg, VA (since Aug. 2000)

11138 Sunburst Lane
Fredericksburg, VA

1006 Jefferson Davis Hwy
Fredericksburg, VA (This address showed up for Janet, but not Raven)

August 2001 - Dec 2002 (times estimated, not confirmed)
Janet: (school? She went back for two years)
1 College Hill Drive
Buena Vista, VA

Raven: ??
5008 Sideburn Rd
Fairfax, VA

Dec 2002 to August 2004 (times estimated, not confirmed)
Smithfield, Virginia

August 2004 to April 26, 2005
2606 FERRAND DR
DURHAM, NC 27705-1738

[SouthEastSleuth]

Remember though, BEFORE moving to Durham, they lived in Carrboro, in the adjacent county (Orange). I don't have a timeline really of when they moved to Carrboro versus when they moved to Durham. Anyone?

[tiffany]

Janet lived at 364 FIR AVE BUENA VISTA VA (http://www.zabasearch.com/search_maps.php?street=364+FIR+AVE&city=+BUENA+VISTA&state=VA)in 2003 with a bunch of her friends that were teammates of hers. Raven would come to visit on weekends.

[ewwwinteresting]

Janet lived at 364 FIR AVE BUENA VISTA VA (http://www.zabasearch.com/search_maps.php?street=364+FIR+AVE&city=+BUENA+VISTA&state=VA)in 2003 with a bunch of her friends that were teammates of hers. Raven would come to visit on weekends.
Did I miss something? Raven and Janet were married in 2000 and in 2003 they didn't live in the same house (except for weekends)????

[PrayersForMaura]

Did I miss something? Raven and Janet were married in 2000 and in 2003 they didn't live in the same house (except for weekends)????
As I have posted on other threads (which is kind of getting lost now that we have a lot more posts!! That's not a bad thing ;) ) ...
Janet went back to college in Virginia in 2001 - 2003 after having taken a year off to spend time with Raven and was offered a scholarship.
I am pretty sure that Raven was in Utah working when Janet was offered the scholarship and she moved back to VA and then Raven eventually moved to
Carrboro from fall 2003 to mid 2004.

I cannot find the original source of this info now but will be looking for it when I have time this weekend. Does anyone have info that can confirm this?
(would save me some time looking for it again! :blowkiss: )

[PrayersForMaura]

If anyone is daring or in the Durham area, this is their landlord's name and number.
Maybe he would give a sleuther a tour... maybe not...

Greijn, Peter - Referral Realty (http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypMap.py?Pyt=Typ&tuid=2785718&ck=502442721&tab=B2C&tcat=24264784&city=Raleigh&state=NC&uzip=27601&country=us&msa=6640&cs=4&ed=HyAFUK1o2TykJCUbwb_86wmgpTWCS5EoNZmp55CTg2Z8&stat=<img src=)
(919) 851-0395 5511 Hillsborough St
Raleigh, NC Map (http://yp.yahoo.com/py/ypMap.py?Pyt=Typ&tuid=2785718&ck=502442721&tab=B2C&tcat=24264784&city=Raleigh&state=NC&uzip=27601&country=us&msa=6640&cs=4&ed=HyAFUK1o2TykJCUbwb_86wmgpTWCS5EoNZmp55CTg2Z8&stat=<img src=)


property inquiring about:
2606 Ferrand Dr, Durham, NC 27705 (http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=9&Z=17&X=6824&Y=39903&W=1&qs=2606+Ferrand+Drive%7cdurham%7cnorth+carolina%7c&Addr=2606+Ferrand+Dr%2c+Durham%2c+NC+27705&ALon=-78.9745745&ALat=36.0401898)
three-bedroom home
gravel driveway and the wooded yard of the secluded property.


note: If anyone DOES contact this realtor, please try to post back here what you can find out about the house / the crime scene!

[ewwwinteresting]

1979 to 1994
Lived in numerous places in San Diego

1994 to 1998
10798 Heather Ridge Road
Sandy, Utah

Fall 1998 to August 2000
Lived at College in Buena Vista, Virginia
(attending college for 2 years, dropped out?)

August 2000 to August 2001
11138 Sunburst Lane #J
Fredericksburg, VA

1006 Jefferson Davis Hwy
Fredericksburg, VA (This address showed up for Janet, but not Raven)

August 2001 - Dec 2002 (Janet returned to school)
1 College Hill Drive
Buena Vista, VA

Raven??
5008 Sideburn Rd
Fairfax, VA

2003 - Janet
364 Fir Avenue
Buena Vista, VA

Raven back living with Mom and Dad in Utah?
10798 Heather Ridge Road
Sandy, Utah

? 2002 to ? 2003
Smithfield, Virginia

September 2003 to August 2004
Carborro, NC

August 2004 to April 26, 2005
2606 Ferrand Drive
Durham, NC 27705-1738

All of these are estimated dates. Any confirmed dates/addresses would be welcomed.

As I keep reading all of these posts, the quote by Sir Walter Scott rings through my head, "Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practice to deceive."

I'm trying to untangle the R's web. Where has he lived? What jobs has he had? Can anybody start a job thread and write down where he has worked and when. Maybe if we give this info to LE or the ADA, they can follow up with his past employers to see if there was any stealing/embezzling that wasn't reported?? I think Newkid stated he still owed one employer $50.00 :)

[Hummingbird]

The Christmas video shows Raven and Janet sending "greetings from Chapel Hill, NC." Was Janet's address in Buena Vista during 2003 just until graduation in the Spring, or during the Fall also? Can anyone confirm?

Don't we have indications that R and J were separated in Jan 2004? Perhaps they had been apart for a few weeks, but had a Christmas reconciliation? Just speculating... ;)

[ewwwinteresting]

The Christmas video shows Raven and Janet sending "greetings from Chapel Hill, NC." Was Janet's address in Buena Vista during 2003 just until graduation in the Spring, or during the Fall also? Can anyone confirm?

Don't we have indications that R and J were separated in Jan 2004? Perhaps they had been apart for a few weeks, but had a Christmas reconciliation? Just speculating... ;)
Ah yes, the Christmas video from Chapel Hill.....dang, another address I don't have. What I remember is that they separated in January 2004 and reconciled in March or April 2004. They most likely had separate addresses during the separation. Not sure if they had their own place or moved in with family....a friend.....girlfriend. Oh, wait, WHO did Raven live with when they were separated? Anybody know? been told?

[lauriej]

as.i recall..............( i'll look for the post(s)....they were seperated in early 2004...............then janet became pregnant.........reconciled..........kaiden born oct. 2004.....

[JerseyGirl]

as.i recall..............( i'll look for the post(s)....they were seperated in early 2004...............then janet became pregnant.........reconciled..........kaiden born oct. 2004.....When would Janet have become pregnant if Kaiden was born on time? December 2003? January 2004? Very close to the separation date.

I understand that Janet went back to college but the whole thing about being separated while she was in school is weird to me. I have a bunch of friends that are in school, and they go home to their spouses at the end of the day. I wonder if it was just plain difficult to get back into that married lifestyle once she graduated. When did she graduate as compared to when they separated in early 2004?

[golfmom]

I wonder what the true reason was for them to separate? Did Janet find out that Raven was having an affair or the financial insanity that was occuring? Or did Raven leave Janet because ... uhhhh .... because .... <insert stupid reason here> ... she was maybe restricting his freedom? Refusing to let him screw around and spend money they didn't have?

When Raven moved out, was it by himself, or with a someone?

[lauriej]

When would Janet have become pregnant if Kaiden was born on time? December 2003? January 2004? Very close to the separation date.

I understand that Janet went back to college but the whole thing about being separated while she was in school is weird to me. I have a bunch of friends that are in school, and they go home to their spouses at the end of the day. I wonder if it was just plain difficult to get back into that married lifestyle once she graduated. When did she graduate as compared to when they separated in early 2004?
.....from PFM's timeline :

After taking a year off to be with her husband, Raven Abaroa, she returned to SVU in August 2001 to complete her last two years. As an upperclassmen, Janet received post-season honors as a United States Collegiate Athletic Association (USCAA) Academic All-American (cumulative 3.5 GPA or higher) in 2001 & 2002. She was a member of the President's Honor Roll (4.0 GPA), USCAA Player of the Week (Oct. 1-7, 2001) and a member of the USCAA All-Tournament Team in 2002. Janet experienced great athletic accomplishment, academic success and spiritual development during her 4 years at SVU.

..so..janet graduated june 2003 ?

[juliagoulia]

She graduated April 2003.

[munch]

Ah yes, the Christmas video from Chapel Hill.....dang, another address I don't have. What I remember is that they separated in January 2004 and reconciled in March or April 2004. They most likely had separate addresses during the separation. Not sure if they had their own place or moved in with family....a friend.....girlfriend. Oh, wait, WHO did Raven live with when they were separated? Anybody know? been told?

Carrboro is the adjacent town to Chapel Hill, so the Christmas video was when they lived in Carrboro. Raven lived in Burlington, NC when they were seperated.

[ewwwinteresting]

1979 to 1994
Lived in numerous places in San Diego

1994 to 1998
10798 Heather Ridge Road
Sandy, Utah

Fall 1998 to August 2000
Lived at College in Buena Vista, Virginia
(attending college for 2 years, dropped out?)

August 2000 to August 2001
11138 Sunburst Lane #J
Fredericksburg, VA

1006 Jefferson Davis Hwy
Fredericksburg, VA (This address showed up for Janet, but not Raven)

Raven??
5008 Sideburn Rd
Fairfax, VA

August 2001 - April 2003 (Janet returned to school)
1 College Hill Drive
Buena Vista, VA

2003 - Janet
364 Fir Avenue
Buena Vista, VA

Raven back living with Mom and Dad in Utah?
10798 Heather Ridge Road
Sandy, Utah

2003
111 Cary St
Smithfield, Virginia 23430

September 2003 to August 2004
Carrboro, NC

January 2004 to March/April 2004 - Raven
Burlington, NC

August 2004 to April 26, 2005
2606 Ferrand Drive
Durham, NC 27705-1738

All of these are estimated dates. Any confirmed dates/addresses would be welcomed.

[ewwwinteresting]

Carrboro is the adjacent town to Chapel Hill, so the Christmas video was when they lived in Carrboro. Raven lived in Burlington, NC when they were seperated.
Thanks Munch! Do you know who Raven lived with? Alone, friends or ? Do you know where Janet lived while they were separated? and with who? Friends, family or ?

[munch]

Janet continued to live in the apartment in Carrboro alone, while Raven lived in the apartment in Burlington. I think, but am not sure, that when they got back together, she moved to Burlington to live with him. But again, i'm not 100 % sure about that. IT wasn't long after they got back together that they got the place in Durham.

[Moxie]

1979 to 1994
Lived in numerous places in San Diego

1994 to 1998
10798 Heather Ridge Road
Sandy, Utah

Fall 1998 to August 2000
Lived at College in Buena Vista, Virginia
(attending college for 2 years, dropped out?)

August 2000 to August 2001
11138 Sunburst Lane #J
Fredericksburg, VA

1006 Jefferson Davis Hwy
Fredericksburg, VA (This address showed up for Janet, but not Raven)

Raven??
5008 Sideburn Rd
Fairfax, VA

August 2001 - April 2003 (Janet returned to school)
1 College Hill Drive
Buena Vista, VA

2003 - Janet
364 Fir Avenue
Buena Vista, VA

Raven back living with Mom and Dad in Utah?
10798 Heather Ridge Road
Sandy, Utah

2003
111 Cary St
Smithfield, Virginia 23430

September 2003 to August 2004
Carrboro, NC

January 2004 to March/April 2004 - Raven
Burlington, NC

August 2004 to April 26, 2005
2606 Ferrand Drive
Durham, NC 27705-1738

All of these are estimated dates. Any confirmed dates/addresses would be welcomed.
Do we know if he owned any of these residences?

[JerseyGirl]

So they got married in August 2000. About 13 months later, Janet went back to school in September 2001 and stayed until April 2003. (Did she come home to Raven on weekends, holidays, summer? Two years is a LONG time for a 21 year-old married couple to be apart so early into their marriage, IMO. I think it would be VERY difficult for a "good" Mormon husband to get back into appropriate married life if he enjoyed that time apart.) Then they were together for about 8 or 9 months before they separated in January 2004. Apart for (?) 3 months until April 2004? Then stayed together for the year until her death in April 2005. Seems like they spent more time apart than they did together during their marriage.

Although Raven seemed to dislike school, I wonder how he felt when Janet was offered the scholarship. Was he happy for her, envious ... ?

[munch]

Raven and Janet were always going to Charlotte, I think it's possible he lived there before moving to Carrboro and before working at Eurosport, maybe while working for HP...

[NCBanker]

I know that Raven would go to SVU on the weekends to be with Janet. He and Janet double dated with one of my cousins and his girlfriend, who both attended SVU at the time.

(Did she come home to Raven on weekends, holidays, summer? Two years is a LONG time for a 21 year-old married couple to be apart so early into their marriage, IMO. I think it would be VERY difficult for a "good" Mormon husband to get back into appropriate married life if he enjoyed that time apart.)

[JerseyGirl]

I know that Raven would go to SVU on the weekends to be with Janet.Wow. That sounds a lot more like dating than marriage. But I guess to each their own. ETA: But I don't blame Janet one bit for taking advantage of that scholarship ... I would have done the same thing.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Last we heard, Raven was still living with his mother Karyn, and step-father Jim Bolton, in Sandy, Utah. Now it seems the house in on the market!

Makes me wonder - Is Raven moving somewhere with his folks? Getting his own place? Moving in with someone else?


Excerpts from the For Sale By Owner listing (link follows):


Type: Single Family

Address:
10798 S Heather Ridge Dr (360 East)
Sandy, UT 84070

Financial Informationhttp://www.forsalebyowner.com/images/spacer.gifAsking Price:
$285,000
Current loan type:
Conventional

Flexibility:
Willing to negotiate




http://www.forsalebyowner.com/show-listing.php?currentlySearching=1&iListingID=20564137

[terminatrixator]

Nice house.

The asking price isn't quite enough to help with a Million Dollar Defense, but I'm sure every penny will help.

Does Geragos have a license to practice in North Carolina:D

[SouthEastSleuth]

Nice house.

The asking price isn't quite enough to help with a Million Dollar Defense, but I'm sure every penny will help.

Does Geragos have a license to practice in North Carolina:D

Ahhhh! Now, there's a thought - could Raven's folks be in a position now where they are FORCED to sell? We know Raven has unpaid property taxes in Durham County, we know after his felony conviction for embezzlement that he is supposed to make financial restitution, surely he's had some legal fees along the way.... and maybe more legal fees in the future? Could it be that they are pulling together funds to bail Raven out financially, or, preparing for the future??? Hmmmm..........

[terminatrixator]

Hmmm a thought, but Karyn doesn't seem like the type that would hand over her money to help her kid out that much.

She seems so much more like the upward and onward type where appearances are important and she wants to look good and maybe 3,500 sq. feet isn't enough for her.

I can't see her settling for anything less than she feels she deserves.

My guess is she wants something better or bigger, maybe so all her kids can come home to Roost and she can be The Top Hen!

[Jenifred]

If that house is 4 stories and 3500 square feet, I'm a monkey's uncle.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Hmmm a thought, but Karyn doesn't seem like the type that would hand over her money to help her kid out that much.

She seems so much more like the upward and onward type where appearances are important and she wants to look good and maybe 3,500 sq. feet isn't enough for her.

I can't see her settling for anything less than she feels she deserves.

My guess is she wants something better or bigger, maybe so all her kids can come home to Roost and she can be The Top Hen!I see your point Term, and we've certainly gotten the impression that Karyn is all about get-rich-quick schemes, etc., but, I have to say - my impression is also that she'd probably do about anything to protect and help her kids too.

In the early days after the murder, SOMEONE had to be paying the legal bills for the embezzlement charges (as Raven wasn't working, etc.); SOMEONE had to pay for Raven's move to Utah and his various trips, etc. Granted, much has been discussed about the Trust Fund, and what monies were there, how they were spent, etc. But now, if those monies are long gone, it wouldn't surprise me one bit of the folks are having to step in and help with any legal bills, restitution payments, what have you.... And, as I said, who knows, maybe this is a proactive step towards socking away some monies in case there are any FUTURE legal bills to pay???

[Moxie]

I see your point Term, and we've certainly gotten the impression that Karyn is all about get-rich-quick schemes, etc., but, I have to say - my impression is also that she'd probably do about anything to protect and help her kids too.

In the early days after the murder, SOMEONE had to be paying the legal bills for the embezzlement charges (as Raven wasn't working, etc.); SOMEONE had to pay for Raven's move to Utah and his various trips, etc. Granted, much has been discussed about the Trust Fund, and what monies were there, how they were spent, etc. But now, if those monies are long gone, it wouldn't surprise me one bit of the folks are having to step in and well with any legal bills, restitution payments, what have you.... And, as I said, who knows, maybe this is a proactive step towards socking away some monies in case there are any FUTURE legal bills to pay???
I agree SES. Also, if Karyn and Jim have no assets, (i.e., a home) they cannot be held liable for any kind of settlement or monies they might have to pay, let's say perhaps in a wrongful death suit?? They wouldn't have the assets to liquidate. Question would be, why would Karyn be concerned about being held liable in that type of case?

[JerseyGirl]

My guess is she wants something better or bigger, maybe so all her kids can come home to Roost and she can be The Top Hen!In a 3500 sq. ft. house with 7-8 bedrooms, all of her kids could come home to roost right where she is.

[JerseyGirl]

If that house is 4 stories and 3500 square feet, I'm a monkey's uncle.It looks like a split-level so 4 stories is likely.

[JerseyGirl]

Two things struck me while looking at the pictures of the house.

1) In the kitchen photo, there's a towel or something on the side of the cabinet that has a rooster on it. No biggie - lots of kitchens have rooster themes. But it did make me chuckle just a bit.

2) There's a blue stroller out back of the house. I wonder if it's Kaiden's. Not that that means anything either. It just made me realize again that these are real people living this crazy nightmare. Seeing baby Kaiden's stroller sitting there felt almost surreal.

[ewwwinteresting]

I agree SES. Also, if Karyn and Jim have no assets, (i.e., a home) they cannot be held liable for any kind of settlement or monies they might have to pay, let's say perhaps in a wrongful death suit?? They wouldn't have the assets to liquidate. Question would be, why would Karyn be concerned about being held liable in that type of case?
This is my guess also Moxie. No real estate to attach a lawsuit judgment to. She must be worried about something:waitasec: .

I'm thinking she might be just as selfish as raven and be willing to throw him to a public defender!

[ewwwinteresting]

Last we heard, Raven was still living with his mother Karyn, and step-father Jim Bolton, in Sandy, Utah. Now it seems the house in on the market!

Makes me wonder - Is Raven moving somewhere with his folks? Getting his own place? Moving in with someone else?
GOOD FIND SES! You make a great sleuth!

This brings up a few questions. Why are the moving? Is Karyn and her husband getting divorced and they have to sell the house? Are they in financial trouble and can no longer afford the house? Are they moving out of Utah? Will raven be following his mommy to her new place? Maybe someone in the neighborhood that has posted here before can answer these questions.

[SouthEastSleuth]

GOOD FIND SES! You make a great sleuth!

This brings up a few questions. Why are the moving? Is Karyn and her husband getting divorced and they have to sell the house? Are they in financial trouble and can no longer afford the house? Are they moving out of Utah? Will raven be following his mommy to her new place? Maybe someone in the neighborhood that has posted here before can answer these questions.
This is certainly a interesting theory ewww. Could it be that Karyn's support of Raven has caused friction in the Bolton household - perhaps to the point where a divorce is in the works? Has supporting Raven caused the family to have financial woes? It's certainly not uncommon for a family to experience turmoil over dealings with a child from a previous marriage. Perhaps Jim Bolton is tired of supporting Raven financially; perhaps he and Karyn have argued over things as varied as the Trust Fund (set up in care of Jim Bolton at his credit union), Raven's guilt or innocence, and who knows what else.... Interesting things to consider for sure.

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Last time I moved I simply wanted a home with more space. People often move for more space, less space, closer to work...They may just need more space now that Raven and Kaiden live there. It could be family issues, but I tend to disagree with the money theory. I think that most people would go through the refinance or line of credit route before they just jumped out of the housing market. It is too hard to get back in.

[JerseyGirl]

Last time I moved I simply wanted a home with more space. People often move for more space, less space, closer to work...They may just need more space now that Raven and Kaiden live there. It could be family issues, but I tend to disagree with the money theory. I think that most people would go through the refinance or line of credit route before they just jumped out of the housing market. It is too hard to get back in.I couldn't disagree more.

I do agree that they might be moving for any number of "normal" reasons. But that they couldn't get back into the housing market? Perhaps the market is different in Utah than it is here in the East because there's no shortage of real estate changing hands here on a constant basis. In any case, not everyone qualifies for a refinance or a line of credit either.

I don't know if you checked out that link, R&G but I don't think that they need more space now that Raven & Kaiden are living there. The house is 7-8 bedrooms. Less space - very possible; more space - no way.

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

You know, I do dream of Utah housing prices! I didn't look to see that the current place is 7-8 bedrooms. Hmmmm. I guess they don't need a bigger place, do they? :waitasec:

[JerseyGirl]

You know, I do dream of Utah housing prices!I know! I don't even know if you CAN find a 7-8 bedroom house around here, and if you could it'd probably be at least 2 times that price if not more. Amazing.

[Jenifred]

I know! I don't even know if you CAN find a 7-8 bedroom house around here, and if you could it'd probably be at least 2 times that price if not more. Amazing.

I know of 3500 sq ft homes that have 5 decent size bedrooms. I would bet that in a 3500 sq ft home with 8 bedrooms, some of the bedrooms would be shoebox-sized.

ETA: I still disagree with the fact that that home is 3500 sq ft. For it to be that way, there has got to be a finished attic and basement, but can split-level houses have basements?

[Jenifred]

Last time I moved I simply wanted a home with more space. People often move for more space, less space, closer to work...They may just need more space now that Raven and Kaiden live there. It could be family issues, but I tend to disagree with the money theory. I think that most people would go through the refinance or line of credit route before they just jumped out of the housing market. It is too hard to get back in.

But I thought we had heard that Raven is branching out on his own, getting his own place. I doubt they are moving to get more space for Raven and Kaiden.

[JerseyGirl]

Yeah, but 8 bedrooms is 8 bedrooms. We have 5-6 bedroom houses out here for $400,000 and up, and even some of them have shoebox-sized rooms.

The kitchen seemed to be a fairly nice size. It has two family rooms. When I compare their house to mine, they have about 1300 sq. ft. more and 3-4 bedrooms and one family room more. It seems that that would be enough space for reasonably sized rooms but I could be wrong. This is certainly not my forte. What struck me as being very odd is that all of this house sits on such a small lot - a quarter acre if I'm remembering correctly?

[Jenifred]

I'm trying to match the windows on the back of the house to the windows in the kitchen. Any ideas how they match up? I think the french doors to the backyard are part of the kitchen, but the bay window is on the other side of the kitchen, which validates my next point.

I don't think that kitchen is as big as it seems either. I bet you anything that the person taking that picture is taking it while standing against the far wall. Making it look like a huge kitchen.

[JerseyGirl]

Counting the cabinets across each wall can at least give you an idea of how big or small it might be. It also appears that there's a door on the left side of the pic next to the cabinets.

[Jenifred]

Oh, I hope this turns into a discussion like the one we had about the Ferrand Dr. House! LOL!!

[JerseyGirl]

Oh, I hope this turns into a discussion like the one we had about the Ferrand Dr. House! LOL!!LOL! But that WAS fun in a way.

[JerseyGirl]

I wonder if the door on the left side of the kitchen picture is the French doors that you see on the right side of the house in the pic's of the backyard. Because the windows to the left of those doors look like they could be the windows from the kitchen.

[Jenifred]

I wonder if the door on the left side of the kitchen picture is the French doors that you see on the right side of the house in the pic's of the backyard. Because the windows to the left of those doors look like they could be the windows from the kitchen.That's exactly what I think. And when you compare that to the picture of the back of the house, it really isn't as big as it seems.

And I also think that the garage and kitchen are next to one another. So, when you are looking at the picture of the back of the house, the garage would be after the french doors to the right. Any opinions on that?

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: Oh, I hope this turns into a discussion like the one we had about the Ferrand Dr. House! LOL!!
Oh please, please can we do this again!!

[ewwwinteresting]

This is certainly a interesting theory ewww. Could it be that Karyn's support of Raven has caused friction in the Bolton household - perhaps to the point where a divorce is in the works? Has supporting Raven caused the family to have financial woes? It's certainly not uncommon for a family to experience turmoil over dealings with a child from a previous marriage. Perhaps Jim Bolton is tired of supporting Raven financially; perhaps he and Karyn have argued over things as varied as the Trust Fund (set up in care of Jim Bolton at his credit union), Raven's guilt or innocence, and who knows what else.... Interesting things to consider for sure.
Ahhh, forgot about the trust fund and the whole stepchild issue! I bet you are right SES. Can you imagine having your stepson (who is a felon) move in and then start draining your finances, getting on your nerves, no quiet time and then possibly having to fight on what the trust fund money is spent on??? Whew, sounds like quite a bit to deal with and could break up a relationship.

[snapple]

Ahhh, forgot about the trust fund and the whole stepchild issue! I bet you are right SES. Can you imagine having your stepson (who is a felon) move in and then start draining your finances, getting on your nerves, no quiet time and then possibly having to fight on what the trust fund money is spent on??? Whew, sounds like quite a bit to deal with and could break up a relationship.Especially if you think your son-in-law is guilty of murder. Out of the bunch Jim seems like the most normal, maybe he has come to the same conclusion that most of us on this site have come to..that raven is guilty. I wonder how Karen would of taken it if he voiced his thoughts on that.

[newkid]

Yeah, but 8 bedrooms is 8 bedrooms. We have 5-6 bedroom houses out here for $400,000 and up, and even some of them have shoebox-sized rooms.

The kitchen seemed to be a fairly nice size. It has two family rooms. When I compare their house to mine, they have about 1300 sq. ft. more and 3-4 bedrooms and one family room more. It seems that that would be enough space for reasonably sized rooms but I could be wrong. This is certainly not my forte. What struck me as being very odd is that all of this house sits on such a small lot - a quarter acre if I'm remembering correctly?
.25 acreas is pretty standard lot size around here. Land is turning into the priciest part of a home purchase.

Looking at the # of cabinets, I think the kitchen isn't all that huge. Also, looking at the island, it looks like they can get 4 chairs around it, 2 on 1 side and 1 on each end.

I think that the garage sticks out a bit in the front and there is living space behind it. I was looking at the pic of the back of the house and I can see a basement window next to the french doors. It's hard to tell from just a picture, but I wouldn't have guessed there is 3500 sq ft there.

Oh my gosh! I just looked at the coordinates of the address and I think my cousin lives just a street or two over. I'll have to ask if she knows what is going on.

[ewwwinteresting]

Oh my gosh! I just looked at the coordinates of the address and I think my cousin lives just a street or two over. I'll have to ask if she knows what is going on.
Oh that would be so interesting if she/he knows them. It would be great to have someone help fill in some of the blanks we need!

[ewwwinteresting]

Especially if you think your son-in-law is guilty of murder. Out of the bunch Jim seems like the most normal, maybe he has come to the same conclusion that most of us on this site have come to..that raven is guilty. I wonder how Karen would of taken it if he voiced his thoughts on that.
I'm wondering IF Jim would voice his thoughts? It seems, from what we've heard and read, Karen rules the roost in the house. Maybe Jim just got sick of it and filed for divorce. Karen wouldn't be able to support the house by herself with her get rich quick jobs and so decided to sell it. Does anybody know whether they have children together? Would Jim have to pay support to Karen?

[ewwwinteresting]

I know of 3500 sq ft homes that have 5 decent size bedrooms. I would bet that in a 3500 sq ft home with 8 bedrooms, some of the bedrooms would be shoebox-sized.

ETA: I still disagree with the fact that that home is 3500 sq ft. For it to be that way, there has got to be a finished attic and basement, but can split-level houses have basements?
I bet the 3500 sq ft would include the garage and yes, you are right with that many bedrooms they would have to be really small, which is probably why they didn't show any pictures of them on the site.

[ewwwinteresting]

I don't think that kitchen is as big as it seems either. I bet you anything that the person taking that picture is taking it while standing against the far wall. Making it look like a huge kitchen.
That's usually what is done...make it look bigger and better than it really is!

Did you guys notice at the end of the ad that it lists the owner as Jim Bolton, not Jim and Karyn Bolton? Maybe Karyn doesn't even own the house. It could have been Jim's house before...something he got from his prior wife, an inheritance, or ?

[terminatrixator]

Gosh, lots of speculation on this house and what is going on. Is is sold yet? Is there still a for sale sign on it? In the picture you can see a for sale sign.

Jim Bolton does seem like a nice guy and from all accounts, there really isn't much information out there regarding his children, it seems like this family is very innocent and on many levels and I feel for this family.

I have a lot of sympathy for Jim Bolton and his children for having to deal with all the problems that has been brought into their life by his wife and a few of her children that seem to have so many issues.

[Jenifred]

I bet the 3500 sq ft would include the garage and yes, you are right with that many bedrooms they would have to be really small, which is probably why they didn't show any pictures of them on the site.

Oh, the honesty just oozes out of them! I know that it's a practice that is probably done quite frequently, but adding in the garage in the sq ft is a little on the misleading side. If I were personally looking for a house, and the owner did that, I'd also wonder what other truths they were trying to stretch.

[JerseyGirl]

Our information is coming from a website dedicated to selling properties so if that site says that it's 3500 sq. ft., I would assume that it's accurate. And there's nothing wrong with a .25 acre lot - it just seems odd to me that a 3500 sq. ft. house would be sitting on a lot that size. .25 acres seems very small to me for a house that size. JMO. Might this home have additions? Is it standard to put a 3500 sq. ft. home on a .25 acre lot?

ETA: One more thing - split-levels can be very deceiving. I've been inside of some where it seems that the rooms keep coming and coming and coming, and you never would have guessed it from the outside.

[JerseyGirl]

That's exactly what I think. And when you compare that to the picture of the back of the house, it really isn't as big as it seems.The only thing that throws it off to me is this (and here we go with the Ferrand Dr. type discussion):

Look at the backyard pic. Look at the small windows that we think are the kitchen. Now look to the left. There's some sort of bay window or something there. IMO, it appears that whatever room that is is on the same level as the kitchen.

Now look at the pic of the kitchen again. On the right side of that pic, you can see what appears to be two sets of stairs - one going up, one going down. It doesn't seem that there's enough space for there to be a hallway between the kitchen and those stairs but I can't tell for sure. If those stairs are right there, where is the room with the bay window?

[JerseyGirl]

Oh, the honesty just oozes out of them! I know that it's a practice that is probably done quite frequently, but adding in the garage in the sq ft is a little on the misleading side. If I were personally looking for a house, and the owner did that, I'd also wonder what other truths they were trying to stretch.Aren't there rules that have to be followed in real estate? When I was buying, I was told that unless the garage is converted to a finished room, it cannot and will not be included in the sq. ft. measurement of the home, nor would an unfinished attic. The sq. footage, as I was told, had to indicate actual living space. I was also told that that was standard for all listings.

Also, I have 4 fair sized bedrooms in my house - nothing huge but nothing shoebox-sized either. And I have about 1300 less sq. footage in my home than the Bolton home. Granted, they have 3-4 extra bedrooms as well as an additional family room but to get 3 more rooms out of 1300 sq. ft. doesn't seem to me that they would necessarily be unlivably small (depending on how large the other rooms are and how much additional room is used up by the family room, of course).

[JerseyGirl]

Google Local - 10798 S Heather Ridge Dr,Sandy,UT (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=10798+S+Heather+Ridge+Dr%2CSandy%2CUT&hl=en)

Here's the map of the residence. It appears that there might be train tracks that run near this house. Maybe they just want to get away from the noise of a nearby train?

Looks like lots of parks nearby - Crescent Park is at the end of their block. I wonder if it's the type of park with swings and playgrounds for the kids. Maybe Kaiden plays there.

[JerseyGirl]

Here's some info on Crescent Park (and the city of Sandy, Utah in general):

Sandy City :: (http://www.sandy.utah.gov/index.php?module=ibcms&fxn=parks_rec.parks_crescent) (pics at the site as well)

One of Sandy's larger parks, it covers 7.8 acres. The primary use of the park are two regulation size softball diamonds (lighted) and 2 tennis courts. In addition to these great facilities are 10 picnic tables, a lighted outdoor pavilion, playground, basketball court and a 1/3 mile jogging trail.

Among other things, it appears that they run youth soccer from the park:

Utah Youth Soccer Association (http://www.uysa.org/fieldsa_c.html)

[JerseyGirl]

I think that the garage sticks out a bit in the front and there is living space behind it.That would make sense. And keep in mind that it's a 2 car garage so any living space behind it would be the width of a 2 car garage, not a 1 car garage.

[JerseyGirl]

3 bathrooms
7 bedrooms
8th bedroom or office (14 x 15) (So the 8th bedroom anyway isn't a shoebox)
2 family rooms
2 laundry rooms
2 water heaters

I think that the 3500 sq. ft. is accurate. This house sounds like it was made for a big family. And it sounds like a very nice house.

[momx3]

They could just be wanting a new house. The real estate market in Utah is amazing with lots of new growth. I know I've only been in my house for 5 years and I'm just waiting until my basement is finished so we can put our house on the market and get a new one.

[JerseyGirl]

I agree momx3. I suspect that they just want a new house. Happens all the time.

ETA: Now that their family is pretty much grown, I imagine they don't need quite so many rooms either.

[ewwwinteresting]

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http://www.assessor.slco.org/cfml/Query/detail.cfm?Parcel_id=28184540120000&link_id=244693

Sq footage: 3190 (not counting garage)
Bathrooms: 2
Bedrooms: 3
Floors: 1

I guess we can assume they finished the basement and put another bathroom and 4 bedrooms, but added another 3 floors:waitasec:

[JerseyGirl]

http://www.assessor.slco.org/cfml/Query/detail.cfm?Parcel_id=28184540120000&link_id=244693

Sq footage: 3190 (not counting garage)
Bathrooms: 2
Bedrooms: 3
Floors: 1

I guess we can assume they finished the basement and put another bathroom and 4 bedrooms, but added another 3 floors:waitasec:So let me get this straight ... the house that the Boltons are selling used to be 2 bathrooms, 3 bedrooms, and 1 floor? In the pics, we can clearly see that the house is built into the ground so it seems impossible that it was ever just one story, even if they put addition after addition on there.

Okay, number of stories aside, I can believe that the house may have originally been 3 bedrooms and 2 baths. Is it possible that the additional bedrooms, etc., came from an addition being put on? What is the square footage like of the neighboring homes? If the square footage is similar, it could even be that some of the rooms were big enough to be split in order to accomodate for the number of children that Karyn and Jim had at home. 7-8 bedrooms does sound like an awful lot - it doesn't seem like that many bedrooms would have been built into a standard house unless the house was built specifically for them.

Do we have any comps in the area that we can use to compare sq. footage and numbers of rooms?

[ewwwinteresting]

So let me get this straight ... the house that the Boltons are selling used to be 2 bathrooms, 3 bedrooms, and 1 floor? In the pics, we can clearly see that the house is built into the ground so it seems impossible that it was ever just one story, even if they put addition after addition on there.

Okay, number of stories aside, I can believe that the house may have originally been 3 bedrooms and 2 baths. Is it possible that the additional bedrooms, etc., came from an addition being put on? What is the square footage like of the neighboring homes? If the square footage is similar, it could even be that some of the rooms were big enough to be split in order to accomodate for the number of children that Karyn and Jim had at home. 7-8 bedrooms does sound like an awful lot - it doesn't seem like that many bedrooms would have been built into a standard house unless the house was built specifically for them.

Do we have any comps in the area that we can use to compare sq. footage and numbers of rooms?
It was built in 1986 and we know raven didn't move to Utah until (I can't remember) 1993 -1995? so I'm guessing they bought it as a 3 bedroom 2 bath with an unfinished basement (which is what is showing in the picture and making it look two levels). From the info on the assessor's office website, they count split level homes as 1 story and don't count the basement as a story. This is just a guess but I would think that they finished the basement specifically for them after they moved in and they added the extra rooms and bathroom. Would that be considered as "adding on"? I don't get the 4 floors though. If you count the basement, you would have two...where are the other two floors stated on the listing coming from?

[JerseyGirl]

I always thought that a split level was listed based on the number of levels - basement being one, the ground level family room being another, the upper level being a 3rd, and so on.

I was looking at an aerial view of that neigborhood, and their house appears to be similar in size to the others near it. Not only that, the houses seem to be very close together so I don't know that there would have been enough room to add to the house if one would have wanted to. My guess for now is that they either converted the basement into some bedrooms (although that seems unlikely since it states that there are 2 family rooms) or they had some nice sized rooms that they split to make more.

[ewwwinteresting]

I always thought that a split level was listed based on the number of levels - basement being one, the ground level family room being another, the upper level being a 3rd, and so on.

I was looking at an aerial view of that neigborhood, and their house appears to be similar in size to the others near it. Not only that, the houses seem to be very close together so I don't know that there would have been enough room to add to the house if one would have wanted to. My guess for now is that they either converted the basement into some bedrooms (although that seems unlikely since it states that there are 2 family rooms) or they had some nice sized rooms that they split to make more.
Could very well be. Maybe split level is that you have a family room only on one level and then you go down a few stairs to the kitchen (which is on a different level, but NOT a different floor). To say it is four floors is misleading if there aren't four FULL floors in a house. BTW, do they even make 4 story houses anywhere?

I remember having a poster tell us about Janet and raven's house in NC which was very informative and helpful. I wonder if someone that has been in raven's house in Utah could straighten this out for all of us....please!

[JerseyGirl]

Does anyone know how long the house has been on the market or what the average length of time might be before it would sell? It seems to me like it's priced to sell quickly; I don't know what real estate goes for there but it seems like a lot of house for the price.

[ewwwinteresting]

Does anyone know how long the house has been on the market or what the average length of time might be before it would sell? It seems to me like it's priced to sell quickly; I don't know what real estate goes for there but it seems like a lot of house for the price.
I know! Cheap Cheap Cheap (no bird sounds implied) ;)
I would think it would have sold immediately. And, again, maybe it was priced this low to sell quickly for a reason....if no divorce, why not keep it and rent it out while you moved to a smaller place?

[JerseyGirl]

I'm trying to get some information on the listing - when it was placed, if the price has been reduced, etc. So far, not much but I'm sure we'll be able to track something down by tomorrow.

[ewwwinteresting]

This house that was recently sold in Sandy is bigger but only has 4 bedrooms and sold for ALOT more. Their house must have been priced for "quick sale" or they did a really bad job selling it by owner???

Status:Sold List Price:$475,000 Sold Price:$486,100 http://www.reloutah.com/images/rea/viewmap.gif (http://www.mapfinder.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&countryid=us&addtohistory=&country=us&address=1678+Crescent+View+Circle&city=Sandy&state=+UT&zipcode=84092&historyid=&search=Get%20Map)1678 Crescent View Circle
Sandy, UT
84092
List Date:12/01/2005 Sold Date:01/06/06 Bedrooms:4 Sq Ft:4,420 Type:2 Story Baths:2.5 Lot Size:.21
Feature DetailsGarage:3 Exterior :Brick / Stucco Year Built:2001 Kitchen Cabinets:Alder Heating:Gas Cooling:Central Air Window Coverings:Shutters / Blinds View:Mountain Windows:Double Pane Vinal Floor Coverings:Carpet / Marble / Tile Sprinklers:Full / Automatic Roof:Asphalt Shingle Landscaping:Full Basement Finished:0% Taxes:$3,492 Fireplaces:2 Kitchen Counters:Granite

[Jess]

I had one quick look at the photo of the outside of the house. Could it be a four LEVEL split ? This is the terminology we use up here, not one level is a complete story ie - the same square footage as the others, family room and a bed and bath down on one level, LR, DR and K up on another, up a short flight of stairs again to 3 bedrooms, and then the basement ?

[terminatrixator]

I have a house similar to that house without add ons. At one time there were 9 kids and two parents that lived in this home.

When you go to my front door you walk up 4 or five stairs to get to my front door. that is the MAIN level. It has a living room, dining room and kitchen. This is all above ground (higher than ground level)

You walk up 5 or 6 stairs off the living room and I have 3 bedrooms and a bathroom. (this is all above ground upstairs)

If you go back to the MAIN level (living room etc. and into the kitchen, you walk down 5 or 6 stairs to a lower level, this level is 1/2 above ground and 1/2 below ground, we have an office, which could be a bedroom another bathroom and a huge family room.

If you walk down 5 more stairs we have a rec room very large and and a laundry room.

We have no additions whatsoever, our home is called a split level and they consider the split level to be 4 levels. Depending on the realator and how you can get away with it, whether it is finished or not, and liberal use of levels is whether you can claim it is 4 levels.

I consider my house a split level - until i have to walk to the lowest leve to the bedroom ands back about 100 friggin' times a day, then I say it's 4 friggin floors and boy the word SLAB - one level - flat house starts looking SO GOOD.

On the outisde of our home it does not look like our house is that big, it is deceptively deceiving, because the levels sorta alternate - bedrooms bathroom bhat on one 1/2 of the side (right) - lving room dining room kitchen next floor (left) next floor family room, bathroom, office (right) and next level laundryroom, rec room on the (left)

It's sorta as though you split the house in two in the middle and each floor alternates a certain side of the house.

[JerseyGirl]

It's sorta as though you split the house in two in the middle and each floor alternates a certain side of the house.So each level is a half-story above the level below it? So the four level house is more like the height of two stories?

[JerseyGirl]

This house that was recently sold in Sandy is bigger but only has 4 bedrooms and sold for ALOT more. Their house must have been priced for "quick sale" or they did a really bad job selling it by owner??? Isn't there a realtor in the family that lives in California? I imagine that the laws of real estate differ from state to state but I think that some advice would be universal. If the numbers you posted are an indication that the Bolton house is being sold below market value, my guess would be that it is priced for quick sale because having a realtor in the family, IMO, would make it more likely that they'd be able to do a good job selling it on their own.

I don't know the actual value of that home but if it is indeed being priced low, could it be that the house isn't in such great condition? Maybe it needs some upgrades, fixing up, etc.? I noticed that it's being listed as a conventional mortgage. There are probably a bunch of factors that are considered when deciding how to list your house but when we bought our first home, our realtor gave us what she referred to as some basic rules of the different types of financing. According to her:

1) Listing your house with conventional mortgage only will limit the number of potential buyers - you should consider listing your house for FHA financing if at all possible.

2) If you do list with FHA, there are more rules that need to be followed. Repairs might need to be made to the home before it can be sold. So if you have a ton of little things that might need to be fixed and would be better off selling "as is", you'd be better to go conventional only.

Now, being that one of my areas of absolutely no knowledge is real estate, I don't know if the above is true or if we can ascertain anything at all from the "conventional" mortgage on the listing. Anyone have any thoughts on this that might make it clearer? Is there anything that can be determined from the conventional financing and the low pricing (if it even is low)?

[terminatrixator]

So each level is a half-story above the level below it? So the four level house is more like the height of two stories?
Exactly. It looks more like a 2-1/2 story house because you can tell there is an upstairs and a house level and you can see that 1/2 the house is under ground the 3rd level - plus there is one level completely underground.

[snapple]

Isn't there a realtor in the family that lives in California? I imagine that the laws of real estate differ from state to state but I think that some advice would be universal. If the numbers you posted are an indication that the Bolton house is being sold below market value, my guess would be that it is priced for quick sale because having a realtor in the family, IMO, would make it more likely that they'd be able to do a good job selling it on their own.

I don't know the actual value of that home but if it is indeed being priced low, could it be that the house isn't in such great condition? Maybe it needs some upgrades, fixing up, etc.? I noticed that it's being listed as a conventional mortgage. There are probably a bunch of factors that are considered when deciding how to list your house but when we bought our first home, our realtor gave us what she referred to as some basic rules of the different types of financing. According to her:

1) Listing your house with conventional mortgage only will limit the number of potential buyers - you should consider listing your house for FHA financing if at all possible.

2) If you do list with FHA, there are more rules that need to be followed. Repairs might need to be made to the home before it can be sold. So if you have a ton of little things that might need to be fixed and would be better off selling "as is", you'd be better to go conventional only.

Now, being that one of my areas of absolutely no knowledge is real estate, I don't know if the above is true or if we can ascertain anything at all from the "conventional" mortgage on the listing. Anyone have any thoughts on this that might make it clearer? Is there anything that can be determined from the conventional financing and the low pricing (if it even is low)?I don't think there is too much to read into that.., Now that there is so much competition between conventional mortgagors, there's not much benefit for an FHA loan as opposed to a conventional loan.

[lymom3]

For what it's worth, FHA has revised their guidelines recently and do not have the regulations that they used to regarding property condition. They will accept the same appraisals now that conventional financing will and repairs are not required unless the appraiser notes an unsafe condition. (Guess you can tell that I just might be in mortgage lending for a living...lol)

[JerseyGirl]

For what it's worth, FHA has revised their guidelines recently and do not have the regulations that they used to regarding property condition. They will accept the same appraisals now that conventional financing will and repairs are not required unless the appraiser notes an unsafe condition. (Guess you can tell that I just might be in mortgage lending for a living...lol)Thanks so much for the insight - I am thankful on a daily basis that I don't need to rely on my knowledge of the real estate market or financing to feed my family!

So if the rules regarding FHA have changed, what would some reasons for a seller to choose one instead of the other?

[newkid]

This house that was recently sold in Sandy is bigger but only has 4 bedrooms and sold for ALOT more. Their house must have been priced for "quick sale" or they did a really bad job selling it by owner???

Status:Sold List Price:$475,000 Sold Price:$486,100 http://www.reloutah.com/images/rea/viewmap.gif (http://www.mapfinder.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&countryid=us&addtohistory=&country=us&address=1678+Crescent+View+Circle&city=Sandy&state=+UT&zipcode=84092&historyid=&search=Get%20Map)1678 Crescent View Circle
Sandy, UT
84092
List Date:12/01/2005 Sold Date:01/06/06 Bedrooms:4 Sq Ft:4,420 Type:2 Story Baths:2.5 Lot Size:.21
Feature DetailsGarage:3 Exterior :Brick / Stucco Year Built:2001 Kitchen Cabinets:Alder Heating:Gas Cooling:Central Air Window Coverings:Shutters / Blinds View:Mountain Windows:Double Pane Vinal Floor Coverings:Carpet / Marble / Tile Sprinklers:Full / Automatic Roof:Asphalt Shingle Landscaping:Full Basement Finished:0% Taxes:$3,492 Fireplaces:2 Kitchen Counters:Granite I'm actually thinking that the Bolton house is priced accurately. It's not in the most desirable location, while this house you found here is. It might sound strange, but 10 blocks to the east can actually make a big difference. It's a much pricier neighborhood. Plus this house has an additional 1000 sq ft and granite countertops.

The Bolton house is 3 blocks east of State Street which is fairly busy. Also, the majority of the homes surrounding it are older, 60's, 70's, some 80's and a few areas of newer homes.

[ewwwinteresting]

I'm actually thinking that the Bolton house is priced accurately. It's not in the most desirable location, while this house you found here is. It might sound strange, but 10 blocks to the east can actually make a big difference. It's a much pricier neighborhood. Plus this house has an additional 1000 sq ft and granite countertops.

The Bolton house is 3 blocks east of State Street which is fairly busy. Also, the majority of the homes surrounding it are older, 60's, 70's, some 80's and a few areas of newer homes.
Thanks for the info NK. Surprising what 10 blocks can do I guess. I knew the house was 1000 sq ft bigger but didn't think that would equate to almost $200,000.00 more. If they lived in a less desirable neighborhood though, it makes sense.

[ewwwinteresting]

So each level is a half-story above the level below it? So the four level house is more like the height of two stories?
This makes sense.

[JerseyGirl]

I'm actually thinking that the Bolton house is priced accurately. It's not in the most desirable location...How long do houses in that area normally stay on the market?

[JerseyGirl]

Last we heard, Raven was still living with his mother Karyn, and step-father Jim Bolton, in Sandy, Utah. Now it seems the house in on the market!

Makes me wonder - Is Raven moving somewhere with his folks? Getting his own place? Moving in with someone else?


Excerpts from the For Sale By Owner listing (link follows):


Type: Single Family

Address:
10798 S Heather Ridge Dr (360 East)
Sandy, UT 84070

Financial Informationhttp://www.forsalebyowner.com/images/spacer.gifAsking Price:
$285,000
Current loan type:
Conventional

Flexibility:
Willing to negotiate




http://www.forsalebyowner.com/show-listing.php?currentlySearching=1&iListingID=20564137When I clicked this link just now, it said that the listing is not active. Does that mean that the house has sold? The exact message is as follows:

Sorry, that listing ID is not active. If you'd like to try another listing ID, please enter it in the box and click "Go."

[terminatrixator]

Hmmm I'm guessing the house is sold and it's a done deal, wonder if they moved yet?

[JerseyGirl]

And I still can't help but wonder if there was a specific reason they moved and also if they all moved to a new place together.

[slinkycat]

The FSBO link is active again. Go to: http://www.forsalebyowner.com/show-listing.php?currentlySearching=1&iListingID=20564137

[terminatrixator]

Guess it hasn't sold yet....but I thought they moved already. Oh well, maybe they should advertise a murderer previously lived in the home, and the sale will be quicker, they could ask for a higher price.