General Discussions #4

[golfmom]

Dang it Jeana, you weren't supposed to close it in the middle of my post! LOL

[golfmom]

PrayersForMaura
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 695

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfmom
I think Raven did chase around get-rich-quick ideas and kept sinking further and further into debt. When he refers to his bad decisions, I mean come on, is that the understatement of the century or what? He doesn't just make mistakes, he makes the same mistake again and again and then acts surprised when things turn out the same. I wonder how much he sank into scams, this just seems like a guy who wouldn't recognize a pyramid if it bit him his well-manicured butt.

YES!! He did... in reference to your post (the part I bolded), I found more information yesterday about some site he was visiting called richdad.com or something like that...

------
I bet he dumped money they didn't have into trying to hit it big and blamed everyone and everything but himself when it failed. :loser:

[PrayersForMaura]

PrayersForMaura
Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 695

Quote:
Originally Posted by golfmom
I think Raven did chase around get-rich-quick ideas and kept sinking further and further into debt. When he refers to his bad decisions, I mean come on, is that the understatement of the century or what? He doesn't just make mistakes, he makes the same mistake again and again and then acts surprised when things turn out the same. I wonder how much he sank into scams, this just seems like a guy who wouldn't recognize a pyramid if it bit him his well-manicured butt.

YES!! He did... in reference to your post (the part I bolded), I found more information yesterday about some site he was visiting called richdad.com or something like that...

------
I bet he dumped money they didn't have into trying to hit it big and blamed everyone and everything but himself when it failed. :loser:
My friend's now Ex-fiance was caught doing one of those pyramid schemes from his office... his emlpoyees ratted him out to the home office and he got fired... talk about stupid. The guy was always saving money and then giving it to friends to invest for him and he would lose it ALL.
I would've dumped his arse long before my friend did!!! LOL
These days, we women have to be with a stable man. :)
Otherwise they drag us down, make us do all the work, take care of the house, care for the children ... oh, and then they want to or try to kill us! :doh:

[Jenifred]

Now there's two discussion #4s! Can someone fix it so it doesn't get too confusing---wait we past that point long ago!:p

[Texas 1]

Sorry, ya guys. I closed the thread, started the other one, and now deleted the one I started as I see Golfmom was really on the ball... :) :truce:

[golfmom]

Sorry, ya guys. I closed the thread, started the other one, and now deleted the one I started as I see Golfmom was really on the ball... :) :truce:

Gotta be fast around here ... LOL

[ewwwinteresting]

Gotta be fast around here ... LOL
Unless you're LE:)

[golfmom]

:laugh: Unless you're LE:)

Now I gotta search around and find that dang kitty kat screen cleaner!

[NCBanker]

I mentioned earlier that I suspected that the lack of commentary from Raven's fellow soccer pals is based on the fact that they're Hispanic and possibly here illegally. Here's information posted by others to substantiate my notion...

1) "If you can get the the cached version of ncsoccer.org, you will see that the majority of their soccer leagues are Hispanic. And from looking on one of their websites, there were very, very few Anglo faces in their bunch (and I was looking hard for Raven)."

2) "I was told in a pm that this person thought that Raven played with a Spanish league. However the only one that was listed on the now defunct ncsoccer page that had a website and pictures turned up with no Raven. On the internet site, it said they had meetings on Wednesday nights. I don't know what they meant by meetings, whether it was a game or an actual meeting. But wasn't Janet killed on a Tuesday?"


3) "Hi there... I received a pm from a credible source that Raven played in a pickup game the night Janet was murdered. I did not receive times or league information or anything more."


So he did in fact play with Hispanics, and is said to have played in a pick-up game on the night of the murder. In addition to a fellow sleuther's comments earlier about pick-up games, they are also simply a small group of people playing that eventually gets larger and larger as the game progresses due to "picking-up" additional players who have wandered in.


It is highly possible that Raven simply went looking for a pick-up game, noticed a group of people at a school soccer field and jumped in.

:doh: Sorry I didn't give credit to the folks that made those comments. I pulled them from a couple of different threads and got too excited in the heat of the moment and forgot to note the authors.

[bulletgirl2002]

Kind of interesting that the "good friend" of Janet dropped out of sight when the family had mr allgood post a blog........

[ewwwinteresting]

Kind of interesting that the "good friend" of Janet dropped out of sight when the family had mr allgood post a blog........There are many things that are kind of interesting in this case...that being one of them, for sure.

I hate to keep harping on the silence issue....but I really think there must be a reason why everyone is being so quiet.

I look at what happened in the Hacking murder. This was a mormon family also. HOWEVER, the brothers went to Mark to find out what happened and then convinced him to "do the right thing." What admiration I have for these brothers. Their actions saved additional pain and time for Lori’s family. No need to pretend he was innocent and put them through a long drawn out trial. Mark was guilty and admitted it!

In the Abaroa murder, none of Raven’s family is talking (about his innocence or guilt). Why? I guess I would have hoped that the brothers of Raven could also convince him to do the right thing and give Janet’s family some closure. I am not saying that Raven did it, but none of the siblings seem to be helping to find the real killer either. I believed it was MissYouJanet that posted that Raven’s family supposedly really loved Janet....so where are they? The only posting we have is from Raven’s brother who wrote a poem about Janet playing shuffleboard in the sky with the angels or something like that!:rolleyes: Do they know something and are hiding it and that is the reason for the silence? I can understand Janet’s family being silent due to them mourning but not Raven’s family. I know I would do everything I could to find the person that brutally murdered my daughter-in-law, and if it was my son, I could only hope I would be as standup as the Hacking family and "do the right thing!"

[hoppyfrog]

[QUOTE=ewwwinteresting]There are many things that are kind of interesting in this case...that being one of them, for sure.

I hate to keep harping on the silence issue....but I really think there must be a reason why everyone is being so quiet.[UNQOTE]

I wonder if the silence is because LE have strong reason to believe that the killer will implicate him/herself. Just a theory.

As far as whodunit, my theories are:

1. The killer is someone with whom Raven had an affair and is feeling possessive of Raven, jealous of Janet, and wanted to eliminate Janet from the picture.

2. The killer is the spouse/partner/boyfriend of whomever Raven had the affair with and either wanted to kill Raven, or finding Raven not home, killed Janet instead as retribution.

I'm led to believe this because it was a multiple stabbing, personal and passionate, and also because someone here who seemed to be in the know posted that physical evidence (blood spatters, etc.) hasn't been tied to Raven by LE.

I can't get Janet and her friends and family out of my head. So tragic.

Thanks for letting me post.

Hoppy

[Thinkoflaura]

Why is Raven Samuel Peters AKA Raven Abaroa absent from your list?
Are you a friend of his?
Have you seen our poll? An overwhelming majority of our posters think Raven is the KILLER.
There's a good chance he has already "implicated himself" through the Internet. :) :) :)


[QUOTE=ewwwinteresting]There are many things that are kind of interesting in this case...that being one of them, for sure.

I hate to keep harping on the silence issue....but I really think there must be a reason why everyone is being so quiet.[UNQOTE]

I wonder if the silence is because LE have strong reason to believe that the killer will implicate him/herself. Just a theory.

As far as whodunit, my theories are:

1. The killer is someone with whom Raven had an affair and is feeling possessive of Raven, jealous of Janet, and wanted to eliminate Janet from the picture.

2. The killer is the spouse/partner/boyfriend of whomever Raven had the affair with and either wanted to kill Raven, or finding Raven not home, killed Janet instead as retribution.

I'm led to believe this because it was a multiple stabbing, personal and passionate, and also because someone here who seemed to be in the know posted that physical evidence (blood spatters, etc.) hasn't been tied to Raven by LE.

I can't get Janet and her friends and family out of my head. So tragic.

Thanks for letting me post.

Hoppy

[hoppyfrog]

Why is Raven Samuel Peters AKA Raven Abaroa absent from your list?
Are you a friend of his?
Have you seen our poll? An overwhelming majority of our posters think Raven is the KILLER.
There's a good chance he has already "implicated himself" through the Internet. :) :) :)
Reread my post. I explained why he is absent from my list.

Nope. Don't know him.

Hoppy

[misterallgood]

The following comment (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/000741.html#comments) was posted to my blog on the entry titled The Murder of Janet Abaroa... On the Record (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/000741.html). The person signed themselves "SeekingJustice."

I worked with both of the Abaroas. Very closely with Raven moreso than Janet. Raven was very controlling. He had a certain karma about him that just made you feel uneasy around him. He infact DID have a laptop b/c he brought it to work with him all the time. The money he embezzled wasn't actually CURRENCY...he was stealing merchandise. He would place orders for himself and not pay for them and have them shipped to some address. He was able to do this b/c he was a manager. But eventually it was noticed. I do not doubt that Raven had affairs. The things I heard around work from close friends of Janet's and Raven's alike told me that they weren't happily married. I have no idea what went on that night in the house but along with many of my coworkers who knew them personally, I believe that Raven had something to do with this murder...directly or indirectly.....he had something to do with it. Whether he himself did it or had someone else do it.

This person is telling the truth about where they work, by the way, I was able to confirm that independently. That lends some credence to the rest of comment as well.

Mr. A.

[misterallgood]

mrallgood check your pms
Backatcha.

Mr. A.

[golfmom]

Reread my post. I explained why he is absent from my list.

Nope. Don't know him.

Hoppy

Hoppy, would it change your opinion if you knew that the crime scene post that you are referring to has not been confirmed?

[NCBanker]

I'm the one that stated this a week or two ago. The fact at that time was that LE had no physical evidence pointing toward Raven. As for the source, I don't need confirmation. It's solid.

I know we all hate that, because the circumstantial evidence screams Raven's name. Additionally, that status from a few weeks ago could have changed, and he may now be of interest. But at the time that I stated that, he was NOT a serious POI, because there was nothing physical to implicate him.

Hoppy, would it change your opinion if you knew that the crime scene post that you are referring to has not been confirmed?

[lauriej]

[QUOTE=ewwwinteresting]There are many things that are kind of interesting in this case...that being one of them, for sure.

I hate to keep harping on the silence issue....but I really think there must be a reason why everyone is being so quiet.[UNQOTE]

I wonder if the silence is because LE have strong reason to believe that the killer will implicate him/herself. Just a theory.

As far as whodunit, my theories are:

1. The killer is someone with whom Raven had an affair and is feeling possessive of Raven, jealous of Janet, and wanted to eliminate Janet from the picture.

2. The killer is the spouse/partner/boyfriend of whomever Raven had the affair with and either wanted to kill Raven, or finding Raven not home, killed Janet instead as retribution.

I'm led to believe this because it was a multiple stabbing, personal and passionate, and also because someone here who seemed to be in the know posted that physical evidence (blood spatters, etc.) hasn't been tied to Raven by LE.

I can't get Janet and her friends and family out of my head. So tragic.

Thanks for letting me post.

Hoppy
............welcome to WS.....the more the merrier!

......your theories, both 1 and 2 have been discussed.........and could very well be ..........

..MY problem, now that we know there were ONLY 3 stab wounds.....hand ( in defense most likely ) shoulder( while trying to run/escape possibly)
...and then the fatal ONE stab to the chest...

...i can't imagine someone ( theory 2 ) going there to kill raven.....but encounters janet.....she asks, "may i help you......come on in...." and they then deliver a single plunge killing her.....( i just don't fathom that..)

...in real life, a stabbing takes GUTS....a 'retribution' killing to me would indicate numerous stabbings.....over and over ...THIS particular killer did it with a single fatal deep jab to the heart...........it's very personal.....

[chicoliving]

...in real life, a stabbing takes GUTS....a 'retribution' killing to me would indicate numerous stabbings.....over and over ...THIS particular killer did it with a single fatal deep jab to the heart...........it's very personal.....
Personal, purposeful..........not an overkill or rage style that is often associated with domestic violence murders from stabbing.

[Rooster]

Personal, purposeful..........not an overkill or rage style that is often associated with domestic violence murders from stabbing.I agree.

[cappuccina]

...hallmarks of a PERSONAL and NOT a random crime, Rooster, I am curious as to why you think it could be the result of a robbery gone bad...The few things that this young couple had that were worth stealing would have pretty much been limited to the VX and its accessories. Someone is probably not going to break in and go nutz over cheap furniture and baby clothes...

LE has not said anything was taken; there seems to be nothing taken in the way of vehicles/accessories...If things were taken, LE would have prolly made that public in some way, not as to specifics, but that the murder occurred DURING THE COURSE OF A HOME INVASION/ROBBERY...

[ewwwinteresting]

MY problem, now that we know there were ONLY 3 stab wounds.....hand ( in defense most likely ) shoulder( while trying to run/escape possibly)...and then the fatal ONE stab to the chest...
How do we know that there were only 3 stab wounds.....LE has not released this information, right?. If this information came from Raven or someone he told, do we really believe it?

[cappuccina]

...he indicated that he and some other posters have all gotten the same (reliable) PM indicating such, I believe...

[Rooster]

...hallmarks of a PERSONAL and NOT a random crime, Rooster, I am curious as to why you think it could be the result of a robbery gone bad...The few things that this young couple had that were worth stealing would have pretty much limited to the VX and its accessories. Someone is probably not going to break in and go nutz over cheap furniture and baby clothes...

LE has not said anything was taken; there seems to be nothing taken in the way of vehicles/accessories...If things were taken, LE would have prolly made that public in some way, not as to specifics, but that the murder occurred DURING THE COURSE OF A HOME INVASION/ROBBERY...They might have had more than just cheep furniture and baby clothes....:clap: They had a lap-top computer. It's been said that the area in Durham that they lived in, has a high crime/murder/drug rate. Maybe someone was needing some drug money. Possibly...someone wanted to grab something small, quick easy to grab. Sell it or trade it for drugs. Maybe someone who is desperate for drugs would do anything to get them.
I don't know what happened. But there are plenty of possibility's

[cappuccina]

...this crime occurred during the course of a home invasion/robbery, then?

[Rooster]

I don't know...there's alot they haven't said.

[ewwwinteresting]

They might have had more than just cheep furniture and baby clothes....:clap: They had a lap-top computer. It's been said that the area in Durham that they lived in, has a high crime/murder/drug rate. Maybe someone was needing some drug money. Possibly...someone wanted to grab something small, quick easy to grab. Sell it or trade it for drugs. Maybe someone who is desperate for drugs would do anything to get them.
I don't know what happened. But there are plenty of possibility's
Uhhhh, if any of those possibilities happened, then this would be a random murder.....

You are correct that Raven is innocent until proven guilty, but let's at least try and come up with some real possibilities!

[ewwwinteresting]

...he indicated that he and some other posters have all gotten the same (reliable) PM indicating such, I believe...
My only concern with this information is that all of the reliable PMs received their information from Raven's friends or relatives who received it from Raven.

[Rooster]

Uhhhh, if any of those possibilities happened, then this would be a random murder.....

You are correct that Raven is innocent until proven guilty, but let's at least try and come up with some real possibilities!
Which one is not possible?

[ewwwinteresting]

Which one is not possible?
Which one is and have it not be a random murder?

Random:lacking a definite plan, purpose, or pattern. If LE stated this was NOT
a random crime, then the person who did this had the definite purpose of killing Janet Abaroa (not stealing for drugs or whatever)....unless, of course, you know something LE doesn't???

[golfmom]

I'm the one that stated this a week or two ago. The fact at that time was that LE had no physical evidence pointing toward Raven. As for the source, I don't need confirmation. It's solid.

I know we all hate that, because the circumstantial evidence screams Raven's name. Additionally, that status from a few weeks ago could have changed, and he may now be of interest. But at the time that I stated that, he was NOT a serious POI, because there was nothing physical to implicate him.

NCBanker, I didn't mean to doubt your source, I just pointed out that we have not confirmed the information.

There is a big difference between credible and confirmed. I don't consider information confirmed until I hear it from multiple sources.

A good example is the report we received of violence and poor sportsmanship displayed by Raven. I felt that the original information was credible, but did not move it over to the confirmed pile until we heard from numerous sources that Raven did display poor sportsmanship and had an explosive temper.

Sometimes, even sources that you feel are credible do get stuff wrong. Example being the shoes, after much pms, back and forth, and all from very creditable sources I believe that both Janet and Raven had the silly soccer shoes and those on the porch we're Ravens.

[Jenifred]

Can I just say how happy I was to see that there was some more news coverage on this? That really made my morning.

Hats off to us, huh?:clap: Or really, golfmom!

[hoppyfrog]

Hoppy, would it change your opinion if you knew that the crime scene post that you are referring to has not been confirmed?
What I posted before were some theories that I hoped others would respond to. At this point, I can't say I have an opinion. There are so many unknowns.

LE's silence---shoot, *everyone's* silence (except here :))--really has me stymied.

A few minutes ago when I was still in bed I was thinking about the 911 call/calls. Doesn't sometimes LE release the 911 calls? Releasing it/them could shed a lot of light on this case. Does someone have to petition under the FIA for them to be released or what?

Hoppy

[hoppyfrog]

............welcome to WS.....the more the merrier!

......your theories, both 1 and 2 have been discussed.........and could very well be ..........

..MY problem, now that we know there were ONLY 3 stab wounds.....hand ( in defense most likely ) shoulder( while trying to run/escape possibly)
...and then the fatal ONE stab to the chest...

...i can't imagine someone ( theory 2 ) going there to kill raven.....but encounters janet.....she asks, "may i help you......come on in...." and they then deliver a single plunge killing her.....( i just don't fathom that..)

...in real life, a stabbing takes GUTS....a 'retribution' killing to me would indicate numerous stabbings.....over and over ...THIS particular killer did it with a single fatal deep jab to the heart...........it's very personal.....
Yes, I definitely agree about the personal part.

Thanks for the welcome :cool:

Hoppy

[hoppyfrog]

Can I just say how happy I was to see that there was some more news coverage on this? That really made my morning.

Hats off to us, huh?:clap: Or really, golfmom!

Link?

Hoppy

[ewwwinteresting]

Link?

Hoppy
Last entry under the media links thread :)

[golfmom]

A few minutes ago when I was still in bed I was thinking about the 911 call/calls. Doesn't sometimes LE release the 911 calls? Releasing it/them could shed a lot of light on this case. Does someone have to petition under the FIA for them to be released or what?

Hoppy

Sigh ... that and TOD and soccer info would go a long way.

[ewwwinteresting]

A few minutes ago when I was still in bed I was thinking about the 911 call/calls. Doesn't sometimes LE release the 911 calls? Releasing it/them could shed a lot of light on this case. Does someone have to petition under the FIA for them to be released or what?
Interesting question........how can 911 calls be made public, or can they?

[golfmom]

Interesting question........how can 911 calls be made public, or can they?

I think it's tough to get the freedom of information act stuff when there is an open and active investigation. LE doesn't normally release this information unless they have too. Sound like they don't in this case.

[ewwwinteresting]

LE doesn't normally release this information unless they have too. Sound like they don't in this case.
Actually, it doesn't sound like LE needs to release anything in this case.....so, we should be hearing the name of the person arrested for the murder of Janet Abaroa very shortly??

[golfmom]

Actually, it doesn't sound like LE needs to release anything in this case.....so, we should be hearing the name of the person arrested for the murder of Janet Abaroa very shortly??

:waitasec: That's what I thought 3 weeks ago . . .

[Jenifred]

Actually, it doesn't sound like LE needs to release anything in this case.....so, we should be hearing the name of the person arrested for the murder of Janet Abaroa very shortly??
Right, and I think I just saw a pig fly by the window......:D

[NCBanker]

Well I guess I'll have to make a second trip over there to confirm!



Sometimes, even sources that you feel are credible do get stuff wrong. Example being the shoes, after much pms, back and forth, and all from very creditable sources I believe that both Janet and Raven had the silly soccer shoes and those on the porch we're Ravens.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

In addition to a fellow sleuther's comments earlier about pick-up games, they are also simply a small group of people playing that eventually gets larger and larger as the game progresses due to "picking-up" additional players who have wandered in.


It is highly possible that Raven simply went looking for a pick-up game, noticed a group of people at a school soccer field and jumped in.FWIW, we have scheduled pick-up games in my area for a lot of sports. I know that scheduling pick-up games sounds a bit contradictory but what it means is this: every Saturday at 1 P.M., there is a pick-up softball game at the playground. Anyone is welcomed to show up, and they will be allowed to play until the maximum number of players is reached. Sometimes it is the same players week after week. Sometimes it differs from week to week. But it is always on Saturday at 1 P.M., and whomever can show up shows up. In this case, pick-up just means that there is no set roster but there are set games.

So pick-up games can be scheduled or not scheduled; verifiable or not verifiable.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I believed it was MissYouJanet that posted that Raven’s family supposedly really loved Janet....so where are they? The only posting we have is from Raven’s brother who wrote a poem about Janet playing shuffleboard in the sky with the angels or something like that!Two Abaroas were pallbearers for Janet's funeral, correct? I believe that one of them was Derek (or Derrecke), the brother that wrote the song/poem.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

The following comment (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/000741.html#comments) was posted to my blog on the entry titled The Murder of Janet Abaroa... On the Record (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/000741.html). The person signed themselves "SeekingJustice."


I worked with both of the Abaroas. Very closely with Raven moreso than Janet. Raven was very controlling. He had a certain karma about him that just made you feel uneasy around him. He infact DID have a laptop b/c he brought it to work with him all the time...I meant to post this before but forgot. Perhaps it's mentioned later in this thread. Someone had also pointed out that Raven had his PDA in his hand at Janet's graduation, (although what in the world would he need it for there?) It seems that Raven traveled with his computer(s) - I don't know this to be fact but it seems that way from what we've learned about him. If so, the computer wouldn't have been at the house to BE stolen that night. Did Janet have jewelry? Was it out in the open? Was it taken? Was it disturbed?

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

...MY problem, now that we know there were ONLY 3 stab wounds.....hand ( in defense most likely ) shoulder( while trying to run/escape possibly)
...and then the fatal ONE stab to the chest...
It has not been verified by LE or the media, however, that there were only 3 stab wounds.

[Jenifred]

They might have had more than just cheep furniture and baby clothes....:clap: They had a lap-top computer. It's been said that the area in Durham that they lived in, has a high crime/murder/drug rate. Maybe someone was needing some drug money. Possibly...someone wanted to grab something small, quick easy to grab. Sell it or trade it for drugs. Maybe someone who is desperate for drugs would do anything to get them.
I don't know what happened. But there are plenty of possibility's
It was stated that in general Durham was high crime. Not their neighborhood.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

They might have had more than just cheep furniture and baby clothes....:clap: They had a lap-top computer. It's been said that the area in Durham that they lived in, has a high crime/murder/drug rate. Maybe someone was needing some drug money. Possibly...someone wanted to grab something small, quick easy to grab. Sell it or trade it for drugs. Maybe someone who is desperate for drugs would do anything to get them.
I don't know what happened. But there are plenty of possibility'sWe've been told that this is a fairly nice, fairly expensive neighborhood. Why would someone go to the one rental property on the block (that seems to be MUCH less visible than some others), pick the Abaroa's home at random during the hours of the day when people are typically still awake, and steal ONLY a laptop that contains information that seems very damning to Raven? If Raven didn't do this, he sure is lucky that the one item that the burglar decided to steal was that computer. Nevermind the perp had to go upstairs to get it when he could have just grabbed a tv or a stereo or a purse, etc., from the first floor of the house. Quite a daring robbery for that time of the evening, IMO.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Which one (theory) is not possible?Any theory that goes against LE's assertion that this was not random and that the public is not in any danger.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I think it's tough to get the freedom of information act stuff when there is an open and active investigation. LE doesn't normally release this information unless they have too. Sound like they don't in this case.You know what? That's an excellent point! Take the Groene family murders in Idaho, for example. They didn't release much information at first. Then after the first week, we started to hear something. A week later, they gave us a little more. And so on. The reason that they are giving us a little at a time is to try to generate the tips they need to find the murderer, (while still keeping enough to themselves to know when they've found the real perp). So they release only a tiny bit at a time and only when one lead that they've been following starts to run dry.

If LE hasn't given us anything, maybe they haven't run dry yet! They're possibly still following their first lead!

Again, golfmom ... excellent point!!!

[PrayersForMaura]

They might have had more than just cheep furniture and baby clothes....:clap: They had a lap-top computer. It's been said that the area in Durham that they lived in, has a high crime/murder/drug rate. Maybe someone was needing some drug money. Possibly...someone wanted to grab something small, quick easy to grab. Sell it or trade it for drugs. Maybe someone who is desperate for drugs would do anything to get them.
I don't know what happened. But there are plenty of possibility's
don't most robbers rob late at night? Janet was murdered before 10:30pm
It is believed Janet was emailing or instant messaging co-workers that evening, so the lights were most likely on.... I would think.

[Roddick]

The traditional burglar is not interested in violence, he/she is interested only in taking someone else's possessions. When is the best time to take others' possessions? When they aren't home or when they're asleep. Many burglars who are prompted into violence do so when they think no one is at home and it turns out someone is... which is just a bad job of "casing the joint" on their part. In this case, due to the relatively early time of the crime and that there were probably vehicles in the driveway and lights on in the house all go to negate the possibility that this was a burglary. Burglars aren't interested in trouble.

[golfmom]

Most burglers don't target residences with big dogs either.

[Rooster]

Most burglers don't target residences with big dogs either.
Both dogs live outside in a kennel.

[Rooster]

The traditional burglar is not interested in violence, he/she is interested only in taking someone else's possessions. When is the best time to take others' possessions? When they aren't home or when they're asleep. Many burglars who are prompted into violence do so when they think no one is at home and it turns out someone is... which is just a bad job of "casing the joint" on their part. In this case, due to the relatively early time of the crime and that there were probably vehicles in the driveway and lights on in the house all go to negate the possibility that this was a burglary. Burglars aren't interested in trouble.
Maybe Janet was asleep. Maybe she put Kaiden to bed and went to bed herself. You get realy tired with a small infant in the house. When the baby's asleep, alot of times, so is mom.

She might of woken up when she heard someone in the office.

[Moxie]

Maybe Janet was asleep. Maybe she put Kaiden to bed and went to bed herself. You get realy tired with a small infant in the house. When the baby's asleep, alot of times, so is mom.

She might of woken up when she heard someone in the office.
Hi Rooster,

Are you saying she was stabbed in the office? We thought it was a bedroom.

Moxie

[Thinkoflaura]

Well I guess I'll have to make a second trip over there to confirm!

Do the boot scooting and try on those shoes, Banker. :)
Oh, and if you are a bit sentimental, might you take some simple flowers or something suitable as a little memorial for Janet? It could be left at the driveway entrance where the address sign is.

MAYBE then the neighbors would reember her, maybe then they might come forward with a remembered piece of this puzzle.
Just a thought...
Thanks for what you have done. :)

[golfmom]

Both dogs live outside in a kennel.

Most dogs (not my mind you) are like a burglar alarm. Do you know if they were barkers?

[Rooster]

Hi Rooster,

Are you saying she was stabbed in the office? We thought it was a bedroom.

MoxieA bedroom...used as an office.

[Thinkoflaura]

I meant to post this before but forgot. Perhaps it's mentioned later in this thread. Someone had also pointed out that Raven had his PDA in his hand at Janet's graduation, (although what in the world would he need it for there?) It seems that Raven traveled with his computer(s) - I don't know this to be fact but it seems that way from what we've learned about him. If so, the computer wouldn't have been at the house to BE stolen that night. Did Janet have jewelry? Was it out in the open? Was it taken? Was it disturbed?
[/indent]

Jerseygirl, in one of the portraits of the little family on the page of Raven's site where he tells of their visit to his relatives in Utah, Janet is holding Kaiden and it appears that last Christmas, at least, she had a diamond or other clear stone ring on. I enlarged the photo because of the pawn shop ticket.. IF it was genuine ( A big if in Raven's case) then it would have been a $15,000 or so diamond retail. Probably $4,000 pawned... not sure how that works but I know they don't give much for anything.

[Timex]

Just my 2 cents...but dogs barking...or lack of barking means very little. How many cases have we heard folks say..."Oh, it had to be family because the dog didnt bark"...only to find out later it was indeed, a complete stranger.

[Moxie]

A bedroom...used as an office.
What could the burgalar want that would be in that office? Did they keep money or valuables in there?

[golfmom]

Just my 2 cents...but dogs barking...or lack of barking means very little. How many cases have we heard folks say..."Oh, it had to be family because the dog didnt bark"...only to find out later it was indeed, a complete stranger.

I was just curious about them. My puppy-dog would sleep right through AND he's just not a barker, it would be very rare for him to actually bark at a stranger ... now a hat on a stranger might get him going ...

:innocent:

[Thinkoflaura]

Both dogs live outside in a kennel.

Are you saying then, that dogs which live outside do not have the ability to hear a car or other means of transportation approaching? That they lack the sense of smell to sense a stranger?
That they do not have eyes to see a stranger approach their " domain"?

That ourdoor dogs lack the ability to BARK when someone drove up to their house? They may have lived outside, which makes the case even stronger for the fact that they would have barked loudly enough for neighbors to hear if a stranger was on their turf.

Edited to add: I respect Timex's position and realize that some dogs don't bark much. My experience with friends' dogs, family pets, and even people whom I mostly talk to on the phone, is that their dogs bark whenever someone new comes into their domain.

[Rooster]

Are you saying then, that dogs which live outside do not have the ability to hear a car or other means of transportation approaching? That they lack the sense of smell to sense a stranger?
That they do not have eyes to see a stranger approach their " domain"?

That ourdoor dogs lack the ability to BARK when someone drove up to their house? They may have lived outside, which makes the case even stronger for the fact that they would have barked lioudly enough for neighbors to hear if a stranger was on their turf.

Edited to add: I respect Timex's position and realize that some dogs don't bark much. My experience with friends' dogs, family pets, and even people whom I mostly talk to on the phone, is that their dogs bark whenever someone new comes into their domain.
No what I said was they live outside. In a cage. Not able to help Janet. Maybe they barked. I don't know. Maybe they didn't.

[golfmom]

Edited to add: I respect Timex's position and realize that some dogs don't bark much. My experience with friends' dogs, family pets, and even people whom I mostly talk to on the phone, is that their dogs bark whenever someone new comes into their domain.

Mine is a little house dog type. He doesn't like the vacumn cleaner either.

[Thinkoflaura]

What could the burgalar want that would be in that office? Did they keep money or valuables in there?
The search warrant list of items removed from that room includes a safe.

[golfmom]

Mine is a little house dog type. He doesn't like the vacumn cleaner either.

eta: friends of mine who have outdoor dogs or hunting dogs talk about how those dogs just drive them crazy barking at the leaves falling off the trees tho

[Timex]

Edited to add: I respect Timex's position and realize that some dogs don't bark much. My experience with friends' dogs, family pets, and even people whom I mostly talk to on the phone, is that their dogs bark whenever someone new comes into their domain.


Many dogs do...but many dont. If we could rely on dogs to alert us to such things, we wouldnt have children taken from their beds in the middle of the night while the family dog snoozes.

[golfmom]

The search warrant list of items removed from that room includes a safe.

If you were a thief wouldn't you steal the safe? I remember it was locked from the search warrant.

[Moxie]

If you were a thief wouldn't you steal the safe? I remember it was locked from the search warrant.
That is a good point, but how would a stranger/burgalar know enough about the house to go directly to the office and how did they know a safe was in there?

[Timex]

eta: friends of mine who have outdoor dogs or hunting dogs talk about how those dogs just drive them crazy barking at the leaves falling off the trees tho

But yet the Groens had a pitbull that was known to attack, yet someone managed to get inside and kill 3, kidnap 2. Dogs just cannot be relied upon in such situations.

[Thinkoflaura]

No what I said was they live outside. In a cage. Not able to help Janet. Maybe they barked. I don't know. Maybe they didn't.

Come on, even dogs in a cage outdoors have a run to perform their bodliy functions, LOL. I refuse to believe that Janet would allow 2 pets to lay in their own excrement.
They may have had small quarters, but I am sure they had a run. I am not saying that they would have attacked someone, but that it is normal for dogs, especially when there is more than one dog in the household hierarchy, to bark when they are guarding their turf. Doesn't matter if the house was empty, most dogs would have barked if a stranger approached.

OTOH, our dogs start going nuts when one of us turns the corner to our street. They know we are coming home, and they are joyful and totally different from a " stranger alert" bark. I also do not conider my 2 dogs to be unusually bright.. far from it. LOL.

[Thinkoflaura]

That is a good point, but how would a stranger/burgalar know enough about the house to go directly to the office and how did they know a safe was in there?

Well, Moxie, if you follow Rooster's reasoning, the " burglar" knew about the safe in the same way that he broke into the house because there was a rare laptop computer on the premises. LOL.

The risk was too great, the reward totally unknown for the theft idea to fly. Most people have anti-theft software on their notebooks. Also, a good new one can be purchased for less than $800. This house had nothing to cause it to be a target of a burglary.
If anything, there was a possibility of a vehicle theft, as there were multiple vehicles owned by Raven and an Accord ( among the most stolen cars) owned or used by Janet.

[ewwwinteresting]

OTOH, our dogs start going nuts when one of us turns the corner to our street. They know we are coming home, and they are joyful and totally different from a " stranger alert" bark. I also do not conider my 2 dogs to be unusually bright.. far from it. LOL.
Also, maybe the dogs did bark because they knew the person or didn't know the person and Janet ignored their barking. I ignore my dogs barking all the time :)

Is a non-random murder someone that knows Janet or just that Janet was the targeted victim?

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: Well, Moxie, if you follow Rooster's reasoning, the " burglar" knew about the safe in the same way that he broke into the house because there was a rare laptop computer on the premises. LOL.
I think we can all rest assured this WAS NOT a burglary!

[Rooster]

:laugh: [QUOTE=Thinkoflaura]Come on, even dogs in a cage outdoors have a run to perform their bodliy functions, LOL. I refuse to believe that Janet would allow 2 pets to lay in their own excrement.

I'm sure Raven and Janet took good care of their dogs. I'm sure they went on walks with them...and Let them out of their kennel. But, If Raven was at a soccer game and Janet and the baby were inside, possibly sleeping. Then the dog would probably be in the kennel. They slept in the kennel.(or dog run)

[PrayersForMaura]

:laugh: [QUOTE=Thinkoflaura]Come on, even dogs in a cage outdoors have a run to perform their bodliy functions, LOL. I refuse to believe that Janet would allow 2 pets to lay in their own excrement.

I'm sure Raven and Janet took good care of their dogs. I'm sure they went on walks with them...and Let them out of their kennel. But, If Raven was at a soccer game and Janet and the baby were inside, possibly sleeping. Then the dog would probably be in the kennel. They slept in the kennel.
aha, so they did have two dogs! i had thought so but wasn't certain.
Need to add the second one to the timeline thread...

[ewwwinteresting]

I'm sure Raven and Janet took good care of their dogs. I'm sure they went on walks with them...and Let them out of their kennel. But, If Raven was at a soccer game and Janet and the baby were inside, possibly sleeping. Then the dog would probably be in the kennel. They slept in the kennel.
Can we assume that Raven and Janet thought they lived in a pretty good area and that is why the dogs were not in the house for protection? Because in his archived website photos, the dogs used to be in their house(s)...

[Rooster]

Can we assume that Raven and Janet thought they lived in a pretty good area and that is why the dogs were not in the house for protection? Because in his archived website photos, the dogs used to be in their house(s)...
They lived in an apartment at that time. They didn't have a yard to put a dog run in. Maybe that's part of the reason they decided to rent a house. So, the dogs, the baby and everyone would have more room.

[cappuccina]

It seems that you have firsthand knowledge that:

1. A bedroom in the Abaroa home was being used as an office.

2. Janet was stabbed in that office, rather than an upstairs bedroom.

3. The Abaroas had dogs that were mainly "outside" dogs, and were kenneled at times.

4. Additional items of value were in the house, and this was known to the intruder.


It seems that you are theorizing that:

1. The intruder may have been a woman.

2. S/he was after the laptop computer.

3. She had no problem entering a well-lit occupied home to commit this crime, during the early evening (still light out, people still outside...most people home from work, and so on...).

4. She was really only after the laptop, because she clearly did not take the safe and other things she could have taken that were listed on the warrant.

Do you think that she came to the house armed, or that the knife was taken/used from the Abaroa's house?
____________________________

Could you please help me out here? I am having a hard time fitting these pices together in a way that makes sense, both from a common sense as well as a "pattern" perspective...

[PrayersForMaura]

It seems that you have firsthand knowledge that:

1. A bedroom in the Abaroa home was being used as an office.

2. Janet was stabbed in that office, rather than an upstairs bedroom.

3. The Abaroas had dogs that were mainly "outside" dogs, and were kenneled at times.

4. Additional items of value were in the house, and this was known to the intruder.


It seems that you are theorizing that:

1. The intruder may have been a woman.

2. S/he was after the laptop computer.

3. She had no problem entering a well-lit occupied home to commit this crime, during the early evening (still light out, people still outside...most people home from work, and so on...).

4. She was really only after the laptop, because she clearly did not take the safe and other things she could have taken that were listed on the warrant.

Do you think that she came to the house armed, or that the knife was taken/used from the Abaroa's house?
____________________________

Could you please help me out here? I am having a hard time fitting these pices together in a way that makes sense, both from a common sense as well as a "pattern" perspective...
on the "who killed janet abaroa" thread, a few people did chose a family member as a possible option ... anyone who chose that option, would you care to share your thoughts??

[ewwwinteresting]

They lived in an apartment at that time. They didn't have a yard to put a dog run in. Maybe that's part of the reason they decided to rent a house. So, the dogs, the baby and everyone would have more room.
A house he couldn't afford. In your opinion, did Raven embezzle because he wanted to provide well for Janet and Kaiden or buy all of his toys?

[ewwwinteresting]

on the "who killed janet abaroa" thread, a few people did chose a family member as a possible option ... anyone who chose that option, would you care to share your thoughts??
yes, it would be interesting to see if they thought Janet's family or Raven's family.

[Rooster]

It seems that you have firsthand knowledge that:

1. A bedroom in the Abaroa home was being used as an office.

2. Janet was stabbed in that office, rather than an upstairs bedroom.

This information is all on line

3. The Abaroas had dogs that were mainly "outside" dogs, and were kenneled at times.

4. Additional items of value were in the house, and this was known to the
intruder.

I don't know what the intruder knew...


It seems that you are theorizing that:

1. The intruder may have been a woman.

May have...

2. S/he was after the laptop computer.

Could have been....

3. She had no problem entering a well-lit occupied home to commit this crime, during the early evening (still light out, people still outside...most people home from work, and so on...).

The police didn't arrive until almost 11:00 pm...I could have easily been dark and late.

4. She was really only after the laptop, because she clearly did not take the safe and other things she could have taken that were listed on the warrant.

He or She could have just grabbed it on the way out. Why?...I don't know

Do you think that she came to the house armed, or that the knife was taken/used from the Abaroa's house?

I don't know...Maybe we will know when the testing come back from the lab. LE took several knives and sissors from the house.
____________________________

Could you please help me out here? I am having a hard time fitting these pices together in a way that makes sense, both from a common sense as well as a "pattern" perspective...Dose this help?

[cappuccina]

...I was asking what YOU know first hand and/or what YOU are theorizing about...

Not to worry, you're not taking this class for a grade... :banghead:

Also, do you know what time the police were called, and how long it took them to arrive? Thanks...

[Rooster]

A house he couldn't afford. In your opinion, did Raven embezzle because he wanted to provide well for Janet and Kaiden or buy all of his toys?
They could afford it until they both lost there jobs. After that they were able to stay because the landlord lowered their rent. He must have liked them enough to do that for them. What a nice guy.

I'm sure Raven wanted the best for his family...don't we all?

[ewwwinteresting]

...I was asking what YOU know first hand and/or what YOU are theorizing about...
Rooster, can you clear up some info that is all over the place here.....like the 911 call (gunshot wound, someone upstairs hurt) and the statement that she committed suicide??

[golfmom]

I still can see no credible reason to believe that the laptop was indeed stolen.

1. If it was, then it was a burglary and police wouldn't say it wasn't a random crime. I have heard that nothing was stolen from the house. And the one and only statement by police lead me to believe that's true.

2. I have heard that RA went everywhere with his laptop.

3. It makes sense that if he was worried about his laptop having incriminating evidence regarding embezzlement he wouldn't have let it out of his sight.

4. Laptops are not as appealing as you might think to steal, especially with every bell & whistle an IT person would load.

5. I am curious what got pawned. If he did part with his laptop, I would think it would be in LE possession now. But, more than likely it was a snowboard or rollerblades or something of Janets.

6. If the laptop is missing, it is just as likely (maybe more so) that Raven torched it to protect himself and/or accomplices.

[ewwwinteresting]

They could afford it until they both lost there jobs. After that they were able to stay because the landlord lowered their rent. He must have liked them enough to do that for them. What a nice guy.

I'm sure Raven wanted the best for his family...don't we all?
I wholeheartedly agree about the landlord being a nice guy.

With Raven wanting the best for his family....just curious how did the VX, motorcycle, designer clothes and all of his other expensive toys fit into all of this?

[Rooster]

...I was asking what YOU know first hand and/or what YOU are theorizing about...

Not to worry, you're not taking this class for a grade... :banghead:

Also, do you know what time the police were called, and how long it took them to arrive? Thanks...
:loser: Chill okay. I think I cleared that up for you by answering your questions.

I don't know the exact time... Raven called when he got home from the soccer game and found Janet. Probably, I'm guessing...10 or 15 minutes before the police got there.

[ewwwinteresting]

If the laptop is missing, it is just as likely (maybe more so) that Raven torched it to protect himself and/or accomplices.
With his clothes, shoes, desktop computer, palm pilot and everything else that is missing???

[ewwwinteresting]

I don't know the exact time... Raven called when he got home from the soccer game and found Janet. Probably, I'm guessing...10 or 15 minutes before the police got there.
So, you know just as much (or better said as little) as we do. You have no first hand knowledge about whether he called in a gunshot wound because he thought she was shot or that he stated it was suicide because he thought she committed suicide?

[Rooster]

Rooster, can you clear up some info that is all over the place here.....like the 911 call (gunshot wound, someone upstairs hurt) and the statement that she committed suicide??
Maybe he saw a hole in her chest and thought it was gun shot wound. She was hurt upstairs.

Who said she commited suicide?

[golfmom]

:loser: Chill okay. I think I cleared that up for you by answering your questions.

I don't know the exact time... Raven called when he got home from the soccer game and found Janet. Probably, I'm guessing...10 or 15 minutes before the police got there.

What about Janet's co-workers? There was an early story about one of them actually making the call because they were worried about her.

[ewwwinteresting]

Maybe he saw a hole in her chest and thought it was gun shot wound. She was hurt upstairs.

Who said she commited suicide?
That's what I meant about the info being all over the place. Several individuals posted that they heard (from someone from someone, etc) that Raven stated she commited suicide....I was just trying to find out if there was any truth to that.

[SouthEastSleuth]

You know, this idea of some sort of accomplice, at least regarding the embezzlement is intriguing. I mean it stand to reason IF there was an accomplice, that this person(s) knew the real deal, as far as what was going on. That said, as someone suggested earlier, would Raven be covering up for that person regarding the embezzlement? Is if possible that this mystery person(s) have more involvement even with Raven, on some or any level?

IF indeed their is an accomplice, I think it would be fascinating to know their involvement with Raven, his various situations in life, etc.

I too have dabbled around in eBay over the years. And it's very true, it can get overwhelming at times...especially for one person, with a new baby, working full-time, and over the holidays even (as evidenced by a referenced link elsewhere to soccer "boot" being auctioned on eBay the first week of Dec 2004)... SO, and purely speculation of course, having someone helping out would certainly ease the burden I suppose (hard for me to actually think in a criminal mindset, as frankly, it doesn't come naturally for me....)

Digging into this would be useful I think? Anyone agree?

I mean even speculation on WHO it might be, if anyone, is silly I know... I mean it could be anyone: friends, family member, co-workers...who knows...

[golfmom]

I mean even speculation on WHO it might be, if anyone, is silly I know... I mean it could be anyone: friends, family member, co-workers...who knows...

A family member would be in the best position, but if you were ordering soccer equipment wouldn't it be a good idea to have a team to place the orders. Especially if you were trying to get a lot of gear at once. You know those $200 golden shoes add up fast.

[SouthEastSleuth]

A family member would be in the best position, but if you were ordering soccer equipment wouldn't it be a good idea to have a team to place the orders. Especially if you were trying to get a lot of gear at once. You know those $200 golden shoes add up fast.

You know that's interesting actually. Certainly a family member would have an emotional interest in helping Raven out in anyway possible maybe? I mean sure, helping out with criminal activity is a little on the EXTREME side, but who knows, maybe there are people who would truly do anything, albeit criminal, to help another family member.... In that vein though, don't I remember reading on these boards that all of the family members were outside of NC, mostly in Utah or somewhere? That might complicate using someone like that as an accomplice I suppose???? Who knows... But a theory worth exploring I think...

[golfmom]

You know that's interesting actually. Certainly a family member would have an emotional interest in helping Raven out in anyway possible maybe? I mean sure, helping out with criminal activity is a little on the EXTREME side, but who knows, maybe there are people who would truly do anything, albeit criminal, to help another family member.... In that vein though, don't I remember reading on these boards that all of the family members were outside of NC, mostly in Utah or somewhere? That might complicate using someone like that as an accomplice I suppose???? Who knows... But a theory worth exploring I think...

Lots of shipping costs involved there.

But seriously, who exactly is paying for Raven's defense attorney on the embezzlement issues. I would think that his ability to secure a loan very questionable.

[ewwwinteresting]

Lots of shipping costs involved there.

But seriously, who exactly is paying for Raven's defense attorney on the embezzlement issues. I would think that his ability to secure a loan very questionable.
That is exactly what I was thinking! Who is paying for his attorney? And, I thought someone posted he pleaded guilty and was going to pay for damages and a fine? Who would pay for this? Surely it would be family member.

Another tidbit: A trust fund account for Janet Abaroa (not Kaiden) was set up at an Electrician Credit Union in Utah......imo, maybe this is how his family is helping him pay for his defense?????

[SouthEastSleuth]

Lots of shipping costs involved there.

But seriously, who exactly is paying for Raven's defense attorney on the embezzlement issues. I would think that his ability to secure a loan very questionable.
Now THAT is an excellent point, on two fronts actually.

We know he has to have a lawyer for the embezzlement charges (at least as referenced by the ADA comment about meeting with Raven's lawyer)...AND, it was reported early on that Raven had hired any attorney, after Janet's murder (as I recall we even have the attorney's name somewhere).

So unless Raven somehow secured a court appointed attorney (is that possible for something like these embezzlement charges?), then who's paying the bills here? I mean presumably at that point, with selling off possessions, losing a job, etc.,etc., you would not think there was any spare money lying around anywhere to use to hire a lawyer.....

And if someone else IS indeed paying his legal bills, then WHO? and WHY? A friend? Again, a family member? A former lover? I would SPECULATE that a family member is again most likely, simply if for no other reason, he's family.

[ewwwinteresting]

I would SPECULATE that a family member is again most likely, simply if for no other reason, he's family.
And didn't we read somewhere his step-father was an electrician, which would make it him or his wife (raven's mother) that set up the trust fund....hmmmm.....

[golfmom]

That is exactly what I was thinking! Who is paying for his attorney? And, I thought someone posted he pleaded guilty and was going to pay for damages and a fine? Who would pay for this? Surely it would be family member.

Another tidbit: A trust fund account for Janet Abaroa (not Kaiden) was set up at an Electrician Credit Union in Utah......imo, maybe this is how his family is helping him pay for his defense?????

I think the whole I've plead guilty and I've moved on with my life is a bunch of smoke and mirrors garbage. I confirmed that the case for the embezzlement is still active.

hmmmm the Credit Union info is interesting. This trust fund stuff for a baby with a father who is capable of working confuses me. Look I can understand if both parents were killed somehow, but otherwise ... why the trust fund?

[ewwwinteresting]

hmmmm the Credit Union info is interesting. This trust fund stuff for a baby with a father who is capable of working confuses me. Look I can understand if both parents were killed somehow, but otherwise ... why the trust fund?
I agree. I almost understand a trust fund set up for Kaiden by Janet's parents, if they are thinking Raven won't be around to support him or can't make good financial decisions. Maybe, keeping the money for Kaiden's college fund or something like that. BUT asking for money in the name of Janet for Raven......imo, absurd!

[newkid]

Just jumping in and throwing out a new idea I haven't seen anywhere yet. I have a friend on another message board who works in NC doing auxilary office type stuff for LE. Anyway a week or two ago, this friend mentioned that they (LE) were looking into the possiblity that Janet's murder was drug related. This is just stuff overheard at the office and may mean that they may think one or both Abaroas had some sort of involvement with drugs or that maybe someone (the murderer?) thought they had drugs. Being a rental, the house may have had some drug involvement in the past.

[Jesstexas]

If someone was looking for drugs, I'd expect the entire place to be ransacked and we don't have any indication that it was.

[golfmom]

And if we were talking about drug addicts I would think there would be a lot of stuff missing. And if there were a lot of stuff missing, LE wouldn't have popped off so quick that this wasn't a random crime.

I mean if you lived in that area wouldn't you then be worried about someone breaking into your house murdering you or your loved ones?

[newkid]

That is exactly what I was thinking! Who is paying for his attorney? And, I thought someone posted he pleaded guilty and was going to pay for damages and a fine? Who would pay for this? Surely it would be family member.

Another tidbit: A trust fund account for Janet Abaroa (not Kaiden) was set up at an Electrician Credit Union in Utah......imo, maybe this is how his family is helping him pay for his defense?????
I'm in UT and haven't heard a peep in the news here about the case or a trust fund. Do you have any other information on the trust fund in Janet's name? Is it posted on here somewhere else and I missed it? Thanks

[ewwwinteresting]

Just jumping in and throwing out a new idea I haven't seen anywhere yet. I have a friend on another message board who works in NC doing auxilary office type stuff for LE. Anyway a week or two ago, this friend mentioned that they (LE) were looking into the possiblity that Janet's murder was drug related. This is just stuff overheard at the office and may mean that they may think one or both Abaroas had some sort of involvement with drugs or that maybe someone (the murderer?) thought they had drugs. Being a rental, the house may have had some drug involvement in the past.
Maybe Raven (it seems unlikely that Janet was on drugs) was using and owed this supplier? The supplier stated pay me or I'll hurt your family. That would make it not random. Have I been watching too many crime shows????

[ewwwinteresting]

I'm in UT and haven't heard a peep in the news here about the case or a trust fund. Do you have any other information on the trust fund in Janet's name? Is it posted on here somewhere else and I missed it? Thanks
http://photobucket.com/albums/y288/Golfmom/?action=view&current=Program_Cover2.jpg


On the funeral program.....so tacky, in my opinion! No mention of the trust fund for Kaiden on the program. Was posted by MissYouJanet that Janet's parents were accepting donations on behalf of him.

[golfmom]

Maybe Raven (it seems unlikely that Janet was on drugs) was using and owed this supplier? The supplier stated pay me or I'll hurt your family. That would make it not random. Have I been watching too many crime shows????

Then why was Kaiden left unharmed and no property of value to Raven was destroyed or taken?

[ewwwinteresting]

Then why was Kaiden left unharmed and nothing of value to Raven was destroyed or taken?
Oh, don't get me wrong, I wasn't buying into it, just wanted to throw another very unlikely possiblity out there :D

[LvsAMystry]

Interesting about the drug aspect. If drugs do play a role in this, it might not be that it was someone looking for drugs at all, thus no ransack. It very well could be a money owed situation, either as a user or supplier, and when monies weren't coughed up, someone was looking for something -- maybe cash/valuables and it wasn't known someone would be there, or murder actually was the intent as punishment or a message. It could have been the intent to harm Janet as a message to Raven, or it could have been the intent to harm Raven himself, or both if no witnesses wanted, as punishment but he wasn't there. If there was someone he owed money to, whether it be drugs or something else, LE may have a good idea of who and it would explain why it wasn't "random" and also why they are being tight-lipped about it.

[LvsAMystry]

Then why was Kaiden left unharmed and no property of value to Raven was destroyed or taken?

Because Kaiden is too young to bear witness, and they didn't have anything of value worth taking? Just playing devils advocate!

[golfmom]

It could have been the intent to harm Janet as a message to Raven, or it could have been the intent to harm Raven himself, or both if no witnesses wanted, as punishment but he wasn't there. If there was someone he owed money to, whether it be drugs or something else, LE may have a good idea of who and it would explain why it wasn't "random" and also why they are being tight-lipped about it.

If I wanted to send a message I would have grabbed a baseball bat and headed for his VX.

[golfmom]

Because Kaiden is too young to bear witness, and they didn't have anything of value worth taking? Just playing devils advocate!

Just look at the big boy toys, they had some cash sunk into stuff. There had to be stuff lying around to grab or destroy.

[LvsAMystry]

If I wanted to send a message I would have grabbed a baseball bat and headed for his VX.

Well, that's the rational way of sending a message. Or something like that! :crazy:

[Jenifred]

Interesting about the drug aspect. If drugs do play a role in this, it might not be that it was someone looking for drugs at all, thus no ransack. It very well could be a money owed situation, either as a user or supplier, and when monies weren't coughed up, someone was looking for something -- maybe cash/valuables and it wasn't known someone would be there, or murder actually was the intent as punishment or a message. It could have been the intent to harm Janet as a message to Raven, or it could have been the intent to harm Raven himself, or both if no witnesses wanted, as punishment but he wasn't there. If there was someone he owed money to, whether it be drugs or something else, LE may have a good idea of who and it would explain why it wasn't "random" and also why they are being tight-lipped about it.
I would think that if someone wanted to "send a message" hurting their baby would be a better way of doing it. (That just made me sick to my stomach to type that.)

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

But yet the Groens had a pitbull that was known to attack, yet someone managed to get inside and kill 3, kidnap 2. Dogs just cannot be relied upon in such situations.I totally agree. And the Lunsfords had an allegedly yappy dog that also never barked.

[ewwwinteresting]

If I wanted to send a message I would have grabbed a baseball bat and headed for his VX.
Glad I'm not on your bad list:eek: :)

[golfmom]

Glad I'm not on your bad list:eek: :)

Just watch out! I might have one of those days again and you never know ... :croc:

[newkid]

Thanks, I missed that. VERY tacky to put that on the funeral program. I hope it's intended to help with funeral expenses since it was on the program, though that's unlikely considering the location of the credit union.

[newkid]

I haven't seen anything anywhere to support this, just adding a new thought to the mix.

[ewwwinteresting]

I haven't seen anything anywhere to support this, just adding a new thought to the mix.
We are always happy to hear new thoughts and rehash old ones.......in the hopes that it will lead to justice for Janet and someone paying for this horrific brutal murder!

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

You know, this idea of some sort of accomplice, at least regarding the embezzlement is intriguing. I mean it stand to reason IF there was an accomplice, that this person(s) knew the real deal, as far as what was going on. That said, as someone suggested earlier, would Raven be covering up for that person regarding the embezzlement? Is if possible that this mystery person(s) have more involvement even with Raven, on some or any level?

IF indeed their is an accomplice, I think it would be fascinating to know their involvement with Raven, his various situations in life, etc.If there was an accomplice, there could be a very good reason that that laptop WAS stolen, if it was. Raven's case is coming up soon, accomplice becomes scared that Raven will drag him/her into it, and decides to grab the laptop because of any incriminating correspondences that might be on it. That would make it not random, meaning that the Abaroas house was specifically targeted.

Still, if Raven was in cahoots with someone in something illegal, I would think that the person would know Raven well enough to know if he took the laptop with him when he went out. Even if Raven did NOT normally take the laptop with him, wouldn't it have made more sense for the perp to come for the laptop in the middle of the night?

How much time, if any, would embezzlement of this relatively small amount carry for an accomplice? Would it be enough to kill for?

[ewwwinteresting]

If there was an accomplice, there could be a very good reason that that laptop WAS stolen, if it was. Raven's case is coming up soon, accomplice becomes scared that Raven will drag him/her into it, and decides to grab the laptop because of any incriminating correspondences that might be on it. That would make it not random, meaning that the Abaroas house was specifically targeted.

Still, if Raven was in cahoots with someone in something illegal, I would think that the person would know Raven well enough to know if he took the laptop with him when he went out. Even if Raven did NOT normally take the laptop with him, wouldn't it have made more sense for the perp to come for the laptop in the middle of the night?

How much time, if any, would embezzlement of this relatively small amount carry for an accomplice? Would it be enough to kill for?
And what would make this alleged accomplice think that the information was ONLY on the laptop?......remember he also had a desktop and a palm pilot!

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

And didn't we read somewhere his step-father was an electrician, which would make it him or his wife (raven's mother) that set up the trust fund....hmmmm.....I'm confused ... how can you set up a trust fund for someone that's deceased? Do you all mean a memorial fund in Janet's name for Kaiden?

[ewwwinteresting]

I'm confused ... how can you set up a trust fund for someone that's deceased? Do you all mean a memorial fund in Janet's name for Kaiden?
They probably meant a memorial fund in Janet's name for Raven....:twocents:

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Just jumping in and throwing out a new idea I haven't seen anywhere yet. I have a friend on another message board who works in NC doing auxilary office type stuff for LE. Anyway a week or two ago, this friend mentioned that they (LE) were looking into the possiblity that Janet's murder was drug related. This is just stuff overheard at the office and may mean that they may think one or both Abaroas had some sort of involvement with drugs or that maybe someone (the murderer?) thought they had drugs. Being a rental, the house may have had some drug involvement in the past.This is an intriguing idea. When I purchased my home, I left my "sold" sign up for over a month because of some questionable activity at the house before I bought it. I wanted to make absolutely certain that any old drug buddies realized that the previous owner no longer lived here. But the Abaroas lived at the house for 8 months at the time of the murder. I don't know that a drug involvement would just kill whomever happened to be living there at least 8 months after the source of some type of conflict; I would think that they'd stake out the place for a couple of days, and notice that the cars pulling out of the driveway were not the cars of the people that they were looking for.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I just want to mention this. I know that it sometimes happens that a drug dealer will go after family to send a message but (at least in my neck of the woods), it's not very common. If someone is killed over drugs, it is usually the one that owes the money and they are killed with a gun.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

And what would make this alleged accomplice think that the information was ONLY on the laptop?......remember he also had a desktop and a palm pilot!Do we know for sure that there was a desktop? I seem to remember one in the photos but I'm not sure.

[newkid]

I have a teeny bit of infomation that isn't exactly new, just reaffirms other things you guys have already found.

When my husband worked with Raven, Raven owed the company money for unauthorized expenses and never paid. It wasn't a large amount, less than $50, but he still never paid it back. Also similar things happened at the company as far as people selling company property on ebay for personal profit, but my husband doesn't think Raven was involved.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

They probably meant a memorial fund in Janet's name for Raven....:twocents:For Raven???

BTW, I don't know or remember ... does Janet have family in Utah? Whose family put together the funeral service? This memorial fund is bizarre in that it is located in Utah, and I guess I just assumed that Janet's family arranged the funeral. But maybe Raven did with the help of his family since he was her husband. Still, if Raven is still on the East Coast, I don't know why this fund would be set up in Utah in the first place. Maybe I'm just making too much of this.

[golfmom]

I have a teeny bit of infomation that isn't exactly new, just reaffirms other things you guys have already found.

When my husband worked with Raven, Raven owed the company money for unauthorized expenses and never paid. It wasn't a large amount, less than $50, but he still never paid it back. Also similar things happened at the company as far as people selling company property on ebay for personal profit, but my husband doesn't think Raven was involved.

I heard something that the company was famous for a big yard sale and sold older merchandise at a substantial discount. Do you think that's what was being sold on ebay?

[ewwwinteresting]

Do we know for sure that there was a laptop? I seem to remember one in the photos but I'm not sure.
No, I believe Rooster stated a laptop was taken....nothing stated by LE (as we all know)!!!

[golfmom]

For Raven???

BTW, I don't know or remember ... does Janet have family in Utah? Whose family put together the funeral service? This memorial fund is bizarre in that it is located in Utah, and I guess I just assumed that Janet's family arranged the funeral. But maybe Raven did with the help of his family since he was her husband. Still, if Raven is still on the East Coast, I don't know why this fund would be set up in Utah in the first place. Maybe I'm just making too much of this.

Do you think that he might be leaving the east coast and heading back to the west coast to be closer to his family?

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Also similar things happened at the company as far as people selling company property on ebay for personal profit, but my husband doesn't think Raven was involved.Maybe that's where he got the idea from.

[newkid]

The stuff being sold on ebay was computer equipment, and new stuff at that. This was back in Raven's HP days.

forgot to add that my husband doesn't think Raven was involved in ebaying the HP stuff.

[ewwwinteresting]

For Raven???

BTW, I don't know or remember ... does Janet have family in Utah? Whose family put together the funeral service? This memorial fund is bizarre in that it is located in Utah, and I guess I just assumed that Janet's family arranged the funeral. But maybe Raven did with the help of his family since he was her husband. Still, if Raven is still on the East Coast, I don't know why this fund would be set up in Utah in the first place. Maybe I'm just making too much of this.
Kinda goes back to the possibility of Raven's family in Utah helping out with the attorney's expenses for Raven and wants to be reimbursed????

[golfmom]

The stuff being sold on ebay was computer equipment, and new stuff at that. This was back in Raven's HP days.

:eek: You made me sputter all over the screen!
:slap:

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

No, I believe Rooster stated a laptop was taken....nothing stated by LE (as we all know)!!!I actually meant to ask if we know that there was a desktop. :doh: Not quite as easy to grab one of those on the way out.

[golfmom]

I actually meant to ask if we know that there was a desktop. :doh: Not quite as easy to grab one of those on the way out.

Sure looked like one in the picture at ravenstree.com

[SouthEastSleuth]

I heard something that the company was famous for a big yard sale and sold older merchandise at a substantial discount. Do you think that's what was being sold on ebay?
THAT is exactly what I heard. They have an annual "yard sale" where they sell all sorts of discontinued items, overstock, etc. And people can buy whatever (even the public is invited, although I THINK it's open initially to employees only)....and often, people would buy "stuff" and then resell on eBay. In truth, I don't think there's any crime or misdoing in this whatsoever...as long as the employee purchased and PAID for the items, then it would seem to be theirs, to do then whatever they chose...

[ewwwinteresting]

I actually meant to ask if we know that there was a desktop. :doh: Not quite as easy to grab one of those on the way out.Didn't Rooster post that the desktop was possibly pawned?

Which could be the reason why it wasn't on the search warrant??

[golfmom]

THAT is exactly what I heard. They have an annual "yard sale" where they sell all sorts of discontinued items, overstock, etc. And people can buy whatever (even the public is invited, although I THINK it's open initially to employees only)....and often, people would buy "stuff" and then resell on eBay. In truth, I don't think there's any crime or misdoing in this whatsoever...as long as the employee purchased and PAID for the items, then it would seem to be theirs, to do then whatever they chose...

I didn't mean to imply there was anything wrong with the employees doing this. It's actually pretty smart. If I worked there, I'd be saving my pennies all year to do that!

[golfmom]

Didn't Rooster post that the desktop was possibly pawned?

Which could be the reason why it wasn't on the search warrant??

No, I suggested it as a possibility when Rooster brought up the fact that *something* was pawned to feed the family.

But I just don't think that was the pawned item ... but if it was, LE has it and then we wouldn't see it on the items seized list.

So just where is this laptop that Rooster is convinced is missing? I'm not convinced in any way shape or form that it was *stolen*.

[Jesstexas]

All the following is total speculation on my part - please feel free to poke holes in my theory:

Some of the intial reports said that it was a friend/coworker of Janet's who first alerted police that something was wrong because Janet hadn't responded to an (e-mail? instant?) message online. The only plausible way that makes sense to me is if Janet had told the co-worker, THAT day at work, that she had found something out (total guessing here, but something along the lines of he promised to be faithful when we reconciled and now he's carrying on with someone in the office?) and that she intended to tell him something that she knew would anger him (that she was leaving and taking the baby, perhaps?) that night. That she was concerned for her own safety, prompting the co-worker to be concerned as well.

Janet worked in an office, so I assume she arrived home in the evenings around 6:00 or so? I doubt something of the magnitude of "I'm leaving you" could wait very long after she arrived home. She tells him the jig is up, he tells her she's crazy, and she goes into the office - where the laptop is on the desk - to show him her proof. She's sitting in front the computer when he stabs her in the shoulder. She gets up and fends off another blow with her hand before he stabs her in the chest, fatally.

Her husband supposedly left the house at 7:30 to go play soccer (as someone on here has suggested)? That time would fit - off he goes to play soccer as if nothing at all is wrong, establishing his alibi. Her co-worker sees that she's online, tries instant messaging her to see how it went and gets VERY concerned when Janet won't answer.

If Kaiden was asleep when all this happened, I don't think it totally implausible that the husband would leave him alone.

If Janet was using a laptop that night, and the laptop was in the bedroom/office where her body was found, and that laptop is now missing (either hidden away somewhere by her husband or taken in an actual burglary), isn't there some way law enforcement can track whether or not it's being used?

And why hasn't the concerned co-worker come forward (assuming there is one, of course)?

[NCBanker]

I don't mean to offend, but you're way off on your diamond values. There's suggested retail or appraised value, which no one EVER pays, and then there's street value, which is actually more accurate. IF Raven pawned her diamond, I can promise you he got less than $1000 for it.

Jerseygirl, in one of the portraits of the little family on the page of Raven's site where he tells of their visit to his relatives in Utah, Janet is holding Kaiden and it appears that last Christmas, at least, she had a diamond or other clear stone ring on. I enlarged the photo because of the pawn shop ticket.. IF it was genuine ( A big if in Raven's case) then it would have been a $15,000 or so diamond retail. Probably $4,000 pawned... not sure how that works but I know they don't give much for anything.

[golfmom]

Who are we to say that the concerned co-worker hasn't come forward? They may very well be working very closely with LE at this time.

BTW, I think you did an excellent job laying out how this murder could have possibly occured.

[golfmom]

Everyone run over to the crime scene thread so NCB can tell us what house he was at! :woohoo:

[SouthEastSleuth]

On another topic entirely, more or less..

I went over and drove by the house today on Ferrand Drive (no, didn't stop, just slowed a looked around a little).

I would not call this some high-end expensive neighborhood. BUT, it's a nice average middle class neighborhood. Very neat. Tended years. People out walking around, etc. It actually does not look like a neighborhood necessarily, IMO, where you would even find a rental property. I did a little checking on that, and that Greijn (sp?) guy who owns the house bought it a few years ago, maybe in 2002 or 2003, one or the other. From the history I could tell, he does that a lot. Buys houses, then rents them.

My point is, as referenced by someone earlier, this is NOT some derelict run down neighborhood. Certainly not a place you could imagine being overrun with drug dealers, etc. NOW, that said, of course I realize that anything can happen anywhere. But, just as far as generalities go, this doesn't fit the bill, in the least.

[Moxie]

For Raven???

BTW, I don't know or remember ... does Janet have family in Utah? Whose family put together the funeral service? This memorial fund is bizarre in that it is located in Utah, and I guess I just assumed that Janet's family arranged the funeral. But maybe Raven did with the help of his family since he was her husband. Still, if Raven is still on the East Coast, I don't know why this fund would be set up in Utah in the first place. Maybe I'm just making too much of this.
Hi JerseyGirl,

No, you are not making too much of it at all. You are asking very valid questions.

Moxie

[golfmom]

On another topic entirely, more or less..

I went over and drove by the house today on Ferrand Drive (no, didn't stop, just slowed a looked around a little).

.

Can you confirm for us on the sat. picture which house we're supposed to be looking at? It's in the crime scene thread.

[newkid]

My point is, as referenced by someone earlier, this is NOT some derelict run down neighborhood. Certainly not a place you could imagine being overrun with drug dealers, etc. NOW, that said, of course I realize that anything can happen anywhere. But, just as far as generalities go, this doesn't fit the bill, in the least.
What I meant by the house somehow being involved in drugs is that it's a rental and may sit empty at times. Also it's not easily seen from the road (at least it appears that way in pictures).

From what I've read about him, I wouldn't think Raven would willingly move into a run down neighborhood.

[golfmom]

What I meant by the house somehow being involved in drugs is that it's a rental and may sit empty at times. Also it's not easily seen from the road (at least it appears that way in pictures).

From what I've read about him, I wouldn't think Raven would willingly move into a run down neighborhood.

Newkid, did you see the archive version of pocketpcguy? He was writing to Shiloh about a bunch of properties and started talking about rats, but he wasn't worried because it was nothing a couple of good dogs couldn't take care of.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Can you confirm for us on the sat. picture which house we're supposed to be looking at? It's in the crime scene thread.
Ok, here goes, I'll try and be clear. First of all the street Cohnwood is the street running perpendicular to the pic (running west to east). It end in the curve and suddenly become Ferrand Drive. Just past the white car there is a driveway on the right. That is NOT the drive. IT IS THE NEXT DRIVEWAY.....

Hope that helps??

[NCBanker]

Thanks for backing me up on that, neighbor! :)

On another topic entirely, more or less..

I went over and drove by the house today on Ferrand Drive (no, didn't stop, just slowed a looked around a little).

I would not call this some high-end expensive neighborhood. BUT, it's a nice average middle class neighborhood. Very neat. Tended years. People out walking around, etc. It actually does not look like a neighborhood necessarily, IMO, where you would even find a rental property. I did a little checking on that, and that Greijn (sp?) guy who owns the house bought it a few years ago, maybe in 2002 or 2003, one or the other. From the history I could tell, he does that a lot. Buys houses, then rents them.

My point is, as referenced by someone earlier, this is NOT some derelict run down neighborhood. Certainly not a place you could imagine being overrun with drug dealers, etc. NOW, that said, of course I realize that anything can happen anywhere. But, just as far as generalities go, this doesn't fit the bill, in the least.

[golfmom]

Ok, here goes, I'll try and be clear. First of all the street Cohnwood is the street running perpendicular to the pic (running west to east). It end in the curve and suddenly become Ferrand Drive. Just past the white car there is a driveway on the right. That is NOT the drive. IT IS THE NEXT DRIVEWAY.....

Hope that helps??

So it is the house that we originally thought it was? the second driveway (on the right) past the bend in the road?

[SouthEastSleuth]

Ok, here goes, I'll try and be clear. First of all the street Cohnwood is the street running perpendicular to the pic (running west to east). It end in the curve and suddenly become Ferrand Drive. Just past the white car there is a driveway on the right. That is NOT the drive. IT IS THE NEXT DRIVEWAY.....

Hope that helps??

This is the pic I was referring to:

http://www.terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=9&Z=17&X=6824&Y=39902&W=1&qs=2600+Cohnwood+Drive%7cdurham%7cnorth+carolina%7 c&Addr=2600+Cohnwood+Dr%2c+Durham%2c+NC+27705&ALon=-78.9762070&ALat=36.0400088

[newkid]

Newkid, did you see the archive version of pocketpcguy? He was writing to Shiloh about a bunch of properties and started talking about rats, but he wasn't worried because it was nothing a couple of good dogs couldn't take care of.
Nope, I missed that as well. Ewww

[golfmom]

http://web.archive.org/web/20040418221742/pocketpcguy.com/Shiloh.htm

here's the link for you

[ewwwinteresting]

I went over and drove by the house today on Ferrand Drive (no, didn't stop, just slowed a looked around a little).
Awwww come on SES....you didn't stop and try on Raven's soccer shoes?:crazy:

[newkid]

Thanks! Guess I should check it all out before I go shooting my mouth off :doh:

[Jesstexas]

Thanks for clearing that up Southeast. I'm still puzzled, but that's nothing new for me.

[cappuccina]

...reading that Raven might now be living with Kaiden and relatives in UTAH??

Is he living with relatives in NC or UT....and...which relative(s)??

[golfmom]

...reading that Raven might now be living with Kaiden and relatives in UTAH??

Is he living with relatives in NC or UT....and...which relative(s)??

I think that we are just speculating that Raven may be planning to move to UT.

[Thinkoflaura]

I don't mean to offend, but you're way off on your diamond values. There's suggested retail or appraised value, which no one EVER pays, and then there's street value, which is actually more accurate. IF Raven pawned her diamond, I can promise you he got less than $1000 for it.

Thanks for the info. I've never dealt with pawn shops. I have seen what I thought was the online equivalent at eBay but apparently eBay prices are higher than pawn shops, even when it is a pawn shop owner which is the eBay seller of the diamond or other precious gemstone item. Thanks!

[Thinkoflaura]

All the following is total speculation on my part - please feel free to poke holes in my theory:

Some of the intial reports said that it was a friend/coworker of Janet's who first alerted police that something was wrong because Janet hadn't responded to an (e-mail? instant?) message online. The only plausible way that makes sense to me is if Janet had told the co-worker, THAT day at work, that she had found something out (total guessing here, but something along the lines of he promised to be faithful when we reconciled and now he's carrying on with someone in the office?) and that she intended to tell him something that she knew would anger him (that she was leaving and taking the baby, perhaps?) that night. That she was concerned for her own safety, prompting the co-worker to be concerned as well.

Janet worked in an office, so I assume she arrived home in the evenings around 6:00 or so? I doubt something of the magnitude of "I'm leaving you" could wait very long after she arrived home. She tells him the jig is up, he tells her she's crazy, and she goes into the office - where the laptop is on the desk - to show him her proof. She's sitting in front the computer when he stabs her in the shoulder. She gets up and fends off another blow with her hand before he stabs her in the chest, fatally.

Her husband supposedly left the house at 7:30 to go play soccer (as someone on here has suggested)? That time would fit - off he goes to play soccer as if nothing at all is wrong, establishing his alibi. Her co-worker sees that she's online, tries instant messaging her to see how it went and gets VERY concerned when Janet won't answer.

If Kaiden was asleep when all this happened, I don't think it totally implausible that the husband would leave him alone.

If Janet was using a laptop that night, and the laptop was in the bedroom/office where her body was found, and that laptop is now missing (either hidden away somewhere by her husband or taken in an actual burglary), isn't there some way law enforcement can track whether or not it's being used?

And why hasn't the concerned co-worker come forward (assuming there is one, of course)?


Your theory is a good one. I have no problems with what you hypothesize after 6 PM that evening. However, if Janet had knowledge of an indiscretion or affair, or another money thing gone bad, why would she not have confronted Raven when she found it out, which according to your theory, would have been before she went to work? ?
I don't think I can fathom a person going to work and being able to perform with that kind of horrible knowledge and all the emotions connected to it hanging over them.
Can you?

Also, if I was afraid for my personal safety, I would either call the police and give them the evidence I had and hope mightily for an arrest if it was another crime, or get an Order of Protection against Raven if it was a personal matter like an affair, go to a women's shelter with Kaiden or call my parents and ask for help immediately. Parents are a refuge and safe haven to young adults with the kinds of problems Janet and Raven had.

I thnk Janet's parents must have been very loving and supportive from the comments I have read from her sister just after her death.
I don't know a single thing about Raven's parents, not even their real names or current places of residence.

[golfmom]

Also, if I was afraid for my personal safety, I would either call the police and give them the evidence I had and hope mightily for an arrest ....

She may have called a friend tho not thinking how seriously in danger she really was.

[golfmom]

6 members & 23 guests on a Saturday night!

Come on guys sign up and join the discussion. :D

Ya know talking to myself is like .... :blushing: well nevermind.

[Thinkoflaura]

She may have called a friend tho not thinking how seriously in danger she really was.

Well, I doubt she thought she was going to be stabbed to death within the same day, but I would have had a contingency plan in case things did go bad in a hurry. Maybe because I come here where horrible crimes against loved ones are discussed, it makes me more wary. Like, I no longer go shopping at Wal Mart after dark alone due to the recent abductions and murders in Wal Mart parking lots with no guards or good lighting either.

We don't know how he reacted when he was telling Janet about the embezzlement.. or when she learned about his affair or affairs when they were separated.
No one knows what goes on behind closed doors and all of that.

[Jesstexas]

However, if Janet had knowledge of an indiscretion or affair, or another money thing gone bad, why would she not have confronted Raven when she found it out, which according to your theory, would have been before she went to work? ?
I don't think I can fathom a person going to work and being able to perform with that kind of horrible knowledge and all the emotions connected to it hanging over them.
Can you?

No, not really. I dunno - maybe she found out while surfing online at work? I know I check my personal email account from work about 10 times every day.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Hi JerseyGirl,

No, you are not making too much of it at all. You are asking very valid questions.Thanks, Moxie. Sometimes I feel as if I'm grabbing at straws, and that maybe a point that pops in my head is totally irrelevant.

[golfmom]

Just a rant, please keep in mind I'm thrilled at any media coverage we can get on this case. But, the news broadcast link from yesterday kind of sets my teeth on edge.

"Durham police are not saying much about the brutal murder of Janet Abaroa, but Eyewitness News has uncovered a new glimpse into the woman's family life."

Eyewitness News didn't uncover anything. Misterallgood did. You would think that they would give him a nod. I know that if they uncovered it and Misterallgood wrote a piece about the video he would certainly credit them as the original source.

It's probably another one of those reporters treating bloggers disrespectfully, but it just stinks.

[golfmom]

This is a very interesting case that is currently in Crimes in the News forum. It does display that the alternative theory of a drug deal gone bad and revenge murder by stabbing is possible.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Jun-03-Fri-2005/news/26656204.html

Brittney's body had nearly 20 stab wounds, but a doctor who operated on Brittney said the little girl was more concerned about her dead sister than herself.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Just a rant, please keep in mind I'm thrilled at any media coverage we can get on this case. But, the news broadcast link from yesterday kind of sets my teeth on edge.

"Durham police are not saying much about the brutal murder of Janet Abaroa, but Eyewitness News has uncovered a new glimpse into the woman's family life."

Eyewitness News didn't uncover anything. Misterallgood did. You would think that they would give him a nod. I know that if they uncovered it and Misterallgood wrote a piece about the video he would certainly credit them as the original source.

It's probably another one of those reporters treating bloggers disrespectfully, but it just stinks.I totally agree!!! They probably "found" the video when some intern stumbled onto Misterallgood's blog.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

This is a very interesting case that is currently in Crimes in the News forum. It does display that the alternative theory of a drug deal gone bad and revenge murder by stabbing is possible.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Jun-03-Fri-2005/news/26656204.html

Brittney's body had nearly 20 stab wounds, but a doctor who operated on Brittney said the little girl was more concerned about her dead sister than herself. OMG, I don't think I've ever been so sad. :( :( :(

[golfmom]

OMG, I don't think I've ever been so sad. :( :( :(

I know, it's a horrible story. They intended to kill that girl and yet she managed to survive 20 stab wounds ... she's paralized now and during all that all she was worried about was her little sister.
:( :( :(

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I know, it's a horrible story. They intended to kill that girl and yet she managed to survive 20 stab wounds ... she's paralized now and during all that all she was worried about was her little sister.
:( :( :(Her little sister kicked, screamed, and bit. She was only 3. Just a tad older than my own baby. I'm literally crying. I wish I'd never heard about that story.

But you're right ... if TWO people, (apparently neither one tried to talk sense into the other one), could do this to two children, ages 10 and 3, over $200, anything is possible. Thank God Kaiden wasn't hurt!

The story of the two girls is too painful. It's going to haunt me. And to read that the 10 year-old was more concerned about her baby sister (who died in the attack) than she was about her own 20 stab wounds just shatters my heart. I just can't stand it. I really, really can't. :(

[NCBanker]

After reading the article, I emailed the reporter (a female, though I can't remember her name, Erica?). I thanked her for the coverage and prompted her to review this website, as that video had posted here for quite some time. Don't know if it'll do any good, but I at least wanted her to know that WE KNOW they didn't UNCOVER it.

Just a rant, please keep in mind I'm thrilled at any media coverage we can get on this case. But, the news broadcast link from yesterday kind of sets my teeth on edge.

"Durham police are not saying much about the brutal murder of Janet Abaroa, but Eyewitness News has uncovered a new glimpse into the woman's family life."

Eyewitness News didn't uncover anything. Misterallgood did. You would think that they would give him a nod. I know that if they uncovered it and Misterallgood wrote a piece about the video he would certainly credit them as the original source.

It's probably another one of those reporters treating bloggers disrespectfully, but it just stinks.

[newkid]

I know, it's a horrible story. They intended to kill that girl and yet she managed to survive 20 stab wounds ... she's paralized now and during all that all she was worried about was her little sister.
:( :( :(
What's even worse IMO is that the judge just decided to give the mom (who left her children alone in a trailer while she was gambling in the casino) custody of Brittney.

True, I don't know the whole case and hopefully that mother has made some big changes in her priorities.

[newkid]

Just a rant, please keep in mind I'm thrilled at any media coverage we can get on this case. But, the news broadcast link from yesterday kind of sets my teeth on edge.

"Durham police are not saying much about the brutal murder of Janet Abaroa, but Eyewitness News has uncovered a new glimpse into the woman's family life."

Eyewitness News didn't uncover anything. Misterallgood did. You would think that they would give him a nod. I know that if they uncovered it and Misterallgood wrote a piece about the video he would certainly credit them as the original source.

It's probably another one of those reporters treating bloggers disrespectfully, but it just stinks.
It does stink. They shouldn't take credit when they didn't actually have to do anything.

[golfmom]

I need help with some super sleuthing!

Here's the lead. I was on www.dogpile.com and was searching out any additional comments that Raven might have made regarding his wife.

So my search parameters were ....... NC_VX Wife .......

and up pops ....

http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/search/web/NC_VX%2Bwife

4. Hot Casual Sex
Men & Women In Your Area. Find The Match You Are Looking For Now.
Sponsored by: www.myhotmatchups.com/ [Found on Web Search Picks]
5. Married Dating
Discreet Dating for Married People Free Sign Up! - Join Now
Sponsored by: MarriedSecrets.com/ [Found on Web Search Picks]

Anyone willing to slug through this area to see if Mr. P. Ness is listed?

Maybe it's a default thing but when I search ...
FuTBaLrGuY wife
pocketpcguy wife
The same results pop up

[misterallgood]

I totally agree!!! They probably "found" the video when some intern stumbled onto Misterallgood's blog.
You guys rock. :blushing:

I've scooped the mainstream media on several occasions, only to find something I'd blogged basically re-written (no outright plagiarism yet, thank God,) in an article on a website a few days later as if it were breaking news.

The "mainstream media" is kinda divided where we bloggers are concerned. Some of them detest us and think of all of us -- even the really popular ones who get 10 times the hits I do daily -- as just a bunch of guys and gals in our pajamas blathering into the ether. Others see it as the new wave and jump on, but look bad doing it because blogging is, by it's very nature, grassroots, not corporate -- done by independent schmoes on their own dime.

By the way, because of the subjects I write about, I find you all collectively to be an invaluable resource, and highly recommend that if some of you ever see fit to do a little bloggin' your own self (listening, golfmom?) that you do so. If you ever want any ideas, pointers or suggestions on starting one, let me know.

Sorry for the OT -- I just wanted to express my thanks for the implicit support in your words.

Mr. A.

[misterallgood]

I need help with some super sleuthing!

Here's the lead. I was on www.dogpile.com (http://www.dogpile.com) and was searching out any additional comments that Raven might have made regarding his wife.

So my search parameters were ....... NC_VX Wife .......

and up pops ....

http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/search/web/NC_VX%2Bwife

4. Hot Casual Sex
Men & Women In Your Area. Find The Match You Are Looking For Now.
Sponsored by: www.myhotmatchups.com/ (http://www.myhotmatchups.com/) [Found on Web Search Picks]
5. Married Dating
Discreet Dating for Married People Free Sign Up! - Join Now
Sponsored by: MarriedSecrets.com/ [Found on Web Search Picks]

Anyone willing to slug through this area to see if Mr. P. Ness is listed?

Maybe it's a default thing but when I search ...
FuTBaLrGuY wife
pocketpcguy wife
The same results pop up
THIS HAS GOT TO BE FOLLOWED UP ON.

But might I suggest someone single do it? It's pretty easy to make "dummy" accounts, especially if you're a woman -- you'll likely be able to do it free.

Unfortunately, I'm sure my wife would draw the line on my researching here. She was annoyed enough when I got a dummy myspace account to do some sleuthing.

Mr. A.

[golfmom]

THIS HAS GOT TO BE FOLLOWED UP ON.

But might I suggest someone single do it? It's pretty easy to make "dummy" accounts, especially if you're a woman -- you'll likely be able to do it free.

Unfortunately, I'm sure my wife would draw the line on my researching here. She was annoyed enough when I got a dummy myspace account to do some sleuthing.

Mr. A.

That's why I threw it open for others to research. My husband would not be uhhhhhhh ... understanding .... if he caught me in at those sites. Besides, it goes against my own personal code as a married woman to be there.

[golfmom]

(listening, golfmom?)

.

nag, nag, nag, all you ever do is nag!

LOL, seriously MrAG, I a may take you up on your kind offer when I have some spare time on my hands ... ohhhhh ... you know, after a certain arrest is made.

:blowkiss:

[SouthEastSleuth]

That's why I through it open for others to research. My husband would not be uhhhhhhh ... understanding .... if he caught me in at those sites. Besides, it goes against my own personal code as a married woman to be there.
GM - I think, as you referenced earlier, that it's some sort of default search result that comes up with any number of searches. I've noticed the same, um, phenomenom on other search engines...random, silly results coming up that have NOTHING to do with my query at all... Just a thought..

[golfmom]

GM - I think, as you referenced earlier, that it's some sort of default search result that comes up with any number of searches. I've noticed the same, um, phenomenom on other search engines...random, silly results coming up that have NOTHING to do with my query at all... Just a thought..

Thanks SES, I just feel like we are missing something though, and the internet single guy sure fits the bill.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Sorry for the OT -- I just wanted to express my thanks for the implicit support in your words.Mr. A, you are quite welcome. You are the sole reason we all learned about Janet in the first place.

I don't know why I'm so shocked by this station's claim but I am. LE has released nothing, the media has not prodded them to do so, and as soon as credit is to be had, they are there to collect it undeservedly. Frankly, it's infuriating! If they had truly been digging, we wouldn't all need to be here trying to find justice for Janet!

[Jenifred]

So, what did she tell her friends from work that made them so worried for her safety?
:laugh: Raven's home.

[newkid]

You make some good points here, good thinking.

[ewwwinteresting]

Just a rant, please keep in mind I'm thrilled at any media coverage we can get on this case. But, the news broadcast link from yesterday kind of sets my teeth on edge.

"Durham police are not saying much about the brutal murder of Janet Abaroa, but Eyewitness News has uncovered a new glimpse into the woman's family life."

Eyewitness News didn't uncover anything. Misterallgood did. You would think that they would give him a nod. I know that if they uncovered it and Misterallgood wrote a piece about the video he would certainly credit them as the original source.

It's probably another one of those reporters treating bloggers disrespectfully, but it just stinks.
I also believe credit should be given to the proper person.

However, I was glad to see that they did say something about the story and even showed what came up when you searched Janet Abaroa on the net....hopefully leading people to Allgood's blog and this site. It would be interesting to see if anybody new signs up and says they saw it on the news report! No offense Mr. Allgood because you should have been given the credit for the find, but I am still sooooo glad that Janet's name made the news again.....and hopefully it will spark something!!!!!

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: Raven's home.
:laugh: "Raven is home" ROFLOL!

[ewwwinteresting]

I didn't see the behavior I expected to see, based on my personal past experiences with those who have lost a close family member. I know people grieve differently, but there was quite a different feeling from what I expected to see from a young husband and father who had just lost his wife and the mother of his child.

At the funeral there were moments when he was seen sitting with his head in his hands, sobbing profusely. Alternately, there were periods when we was visiting with family and friends quite calmly. This includes the time in the building before, during and after the services. His behavior contrasted with that of Janet's parents and siblings, who carried more of a constant demeanor of controlled grief.
Thank you hummingbird for the information. Was his behavior any different at the family get together the next day?

[Hummingbird]

Thanks, I missed that. VERY tacky to put that on the funeral program. I hope it's intended to help with funeral expenses since it was on the program, though that's unlikely considering the location of the credit union.
Verbatim from the back of the funeral program:

A Memorial Fund has been established
for Janet Abaroa.
Donations can be mailed to:
I.B.E.W. Federal Credit Union
3405 West 1987 South
Salt Lake City, UT 84104

and

Southern Virginia University
has established the
Janet Christiansen Abaroa Pioneer Scholarship.
Donations can be made through the
SVU Development Office
Contact Jamie Stanfield
540-261-2782

[LvsAMystry]

Verbatim from the back of the funeral program:

A Memorial Fund has been established
for Janet Abaroa.
Donations can be mailed to:
I.B.E.W. Federal Credit Union
3405 West 1987 South
Salt Lake City, UT 84104

and

Southern Virginia University
has established the
Janet Christiansen Abaroa Pioneer Scholarship.
Donations can be made through the
SVU Development Office
Contact Jamie Stanfield
540-261-2782

Very strange. Usually you see a trust fund for the child, but not a memorial fund for the deceased. Although I suppose it could be money being earmarked for a permanent memorial. I know of something similar in my town where a young girl was killed in a wreck, friends of hers established a memorial fund and there is now a small park with benches and trees in her name as a lasting memorial. It doesn't really specify that's the case though, so hard to tell.

The scholarship one is obviously appropriate and common.

[Hummingbird]

Thank you hummingbird for the information. Was his behavior any different at the family get together the next day?
There wasn't any profuse sobbing, just visiting with family.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Correct if I'm wrong, but there have been various "reports," in the VX postings, and in other writings from Raven, referencing that he has started a new job sometime earlier this year. I THINK he said something about some "IT company" in Raleigh?

Does anyone know in fact IF he had indeed started a new job? And, if so, what was the job, where, etc?

I mean, we KNOW Janet had recently started a new job with Martin Marietta in Raleigh. But I don't recall seeing any factual information regarding Raven's "new job," or if he was indeed bringing home a paycheck of any sort since being fired from Eurosport.

[Jenifred]

Verbatim from the back of the funeral program:

A Memorial Fund has been established
for Janet Abaroa.
Donations can be mailed to:
I.B.E.W. Federal Credit Union
3405 West 1987 South
Salt Lake City, UT 84104

and

Southern Virginia University
has established the
Janet Christiansen Abaroa Pioneer Scholarship.
Donations can be made through the
SVU Development Office
Contact Jamie Stanfield


540-261-2782
I still think that the phrase "memorial fund" is very confusing. Who knows what it could be for. You automatically know where the money is going if donated to the scholarship fund. Plus, why is the "memorial fund" set up in SLC, where Janet didn't grow up and only had in-laws? And it is odd to me that there are two funds. Like someone's family is trying to get money out of it. IMO.

[golfmom]

I still think that the phrase "memorial fund" is very confusing. Who knows what it could be for. You automatically know where the money is going if donated to the scholarship fund. Plus, why is the "memorial fund" set up in SLC, where Janet didn't grow up and only had in-laws? And it is odd to me that there are two funds. Like someone's family is trying to get money out of it. IMO.

I've been looking around online. I have not found any information on generic memorial funds. They all have stated purposes.

Examples: charity; research; education ... in the deceased person's memory

[Jenifred]

I've been looking around online. I have not found any information on generic memorial funds. They all have stated purposes.

Examples: charity; research; education ... in the deceased person's memory
I've always seen it that way too. Hmmmm...........

[curious1]

This is not directed at anyone in general, but I wanted to remind folks to try to be kind to other posters.
Some people have been ridiculed or blasted for putting out the idea that this may have been a robbery maybe even a random robbery. Just because the police have stated early on that it was not a random act don't base all your thinking on this. We don't have anyother info from LE, how do we know they have not changed their mind on this? The media does not seem interested in covering this and LE is not going to call a press conference everytime they have a new theory or idea. They would not have time to investigate. When trying to solve a crime you have to look at all the possibilities.

Just because someone brings up a theory that doesn't fit into someone elses way of thinking lets not attack them. We are suppose to be looking at different theories here so we can think out loud and maybe see something we have been missing. Acknowleding someone elses theory and then saying I don't believe that is what happend is cool. Ridiculing someone for having a thought you didn't or doesn't fit into your theories accomplishes nothing. I really enjoy thses forums, but when I see people getting attacked for not thinking like everyone else it's very discouraging.

Also please remember that when LE is investingating a case, any case, there are guidelines they use to start the investigation to try to find a direction to head in. If that leads to a dead end you go back to the beginning. Once all of your avenues have been explored using these guidelines you have to start over and starting thinking 'outside of the box'. Like, yes, 9 out of 10 perps usually do this and this for this reason, but what if we are dealing with the 1 perp who doesn't fit these guidelines. FYI: I use to be friends with a detective years ago. And no, I don't think I know all their is to know about investigating a crime, none of us does.

This is suppose to be a place to exchange ideas and bounce them off of each other. Short of saying he was controlled by aliens, lets give each theory a fair shake.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Good post, curious1. Thanks for the reminder. I can certainly use a reminder once in a while. I, myself, tend to become tunnel-visioned after so much time passes. I appreciate what you've said. :)

[curious1]

:laugh:
If I wanted to send a message I would have grabbed a baseball bat and headed for his VX.
I knew I liked you for a reason.:D We need a Smilie with devil horns.

[curious1]

:laugh:
If I wanted to send a message I would have grabbed a baseball bat and headed for his VX.
I knew I liked you for a reason. :D We need a Smilie with devil horns.

[curious1]

:laugh:
:laugh: Raven's home.
HA! I almost spit water all over my monitor!:crazy:

[Jenifred]

:laugh:

HA! I almost spit water all over my monitor!:crazy:
I have to thank golfmom for the perfect set up. That's the first thing that came to my mind when I read her post. I am still getting a chuckle out of it now.

[Jenifred]

Okay, back to the discussion. I was just thinking about the two separate placed to donate money to. Does anyone know if there was a disagreement on where money should go to between the families (Raven's and Janet's)?

From what's been demonstrated here, we know that Raven and Janet were in dire financial straits. Too many payouts, not enough paychecks. And it seems a little opportunistic to have a memorial fund that could be used to pay for his bad financial decisions--making money off of his wife's death.

How many months behind in payments do you have to be before items are repossessed?

[newkid]

How many months behind in payments do you have to be before items are repossessed?
I think it would depend on who is granting the credit, but from his VX posts, I would think it was getting close on his vehicle.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Okay, back to the discussion. I was just thinking about the two separate placed to donate money to. Does anyone know if there was a disagreement on where money should go to between the families (Raven's and Janet's)?

From what's been demonstrated here, we know that Raven and Janet were in dire financial straits. Too many payouts, not enough paychecks. And it seems a little opportunistic to have a memorial fund that could be used to pay for his bad financial decisions--making money off of his wife's death.

How many months behind in payments do you have to be before items are repossessed?
You know, this is a very good point. I am fairly certain that I read on one of the VX board posts that GM dug up, that Raven even said he was several months behind on the VX paymens (or am I remembering this incorrectly???). And I have no knowledge of how repossession works, but I can't imagine a bank, finance company, or whomever, letting you go MONTHS without paying.

Maybe someone has some idea about this???

I mean, remember, to out knowledge, we were dealing with the following vehicles, at or close to the time of the murder:

the infamous VX
a Dodge Durango (that the warrant referenced)
Janet's Acura
and maybe even still the Ducati motorcycle (no indication if and when he sold it)

THAT'S a LOT of payments it seems to me, unless some of they were already paid for I suppose....

[newkid]

You know, this is a very good point. I am fairly certain that I read on one of the VX board posts that GM dug up, that Raven even said he was several months behind on the VX paymens (or am I remembering this incorrectly???). And I have no knowledge of how repossession works, but I can't imagine a bank, finance company, or whomever, letting you go MONTHS without paying.

Maybe someone has some idea about this???

I just asked a couple of people who used to sell cars. The consensus is that it depends on who is financing it, but 2 or 3 months is probably the most they'd let you go.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I'm also curious about something else that was discussed really early on: the check that was taken from the house, per the warrant, that was simply referenced with an amount ($1200ish) and the name Matrix Capital.

I remember NCBanker saying that this company was some sort of regional bank. I've looked a little and it seems this bank's primary presence is in Denver. (Matrix Captial Bank is a subsidiary of Matrix Bancorp, a public company).

Did we ever find out anything about this check? Was it FROM the Abaroa's TO the bank, or, vice versa?

And why in the world would they be dealing with a bank based in Colorado, that has very little if any national presence (or in NC, Virginia, or Utah anyway).

There is also another Matrix Capital, that IS based in Virginia, but this one is more of an investment bank with personal dealings limited to a branch that deals with high worth individuals, etc.

I don't know, but $1200ish is no small amount of money, and especially not for folks in seemingly dire financial straights - a lot, whether it was coming in, or, going out!

[golfmom]

I just asked a couple of people who used to sell cars. The consensus is that it depends on who is financing it, but 2 or 3 months is probably the most they'd let you go.

I remember him posting that he was behind on his payments, but I also remember that he was supposed to have paid the vehicle off in '04. Remember he bought it NEW paying top dollar.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I remember him posting that he was behind on his payments, but I also remember that he was supposed to have paid the vehicle off in '04. Remember he bought it NEW paying top dollar.
Wait, I don't remember that.... do you have a reference to that? I was just searching on here and I can't find it anywhere....

And if that's true, didn't he pay it off pretty quickly??? Seems odd to me actually.....

[golfmom]

Wait, I don't remember that.... do you have a reference to that? I was just searching on here and I can't find it anywhere....

And if that's true, didn't he pay it off pretty quickly??? Seems odd to me actually.....

I'm searching, but not finding it. I'll keep looking!

[golfmom]

I've lost my magical google powers!

No searching for me today .... :o

[Jesstexas]

Up until 1998, he lived in Utah, I believe. And he bought the 1999 VX new, so maybe that check to Matrix is to pay off the car loan or to make up whatever payments he recently missed?

[Jenifred]

Up until 1998, he lived in Utah, I believe. And he bought the 1999 VX new, so maybe that check to Matrix is to pay off the car loan or to make up whatever payments he recently missed?
I was under the impression that he bought it while he was in Virginia. I'll look to see if I can find a reference to it.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I was under the impression that he bought it while he was in Virginia. I'll look to see if I can find a reference to it.
YES, I think I remember that as well.... something about driving by the dealership and seeing it, blah blah blah. I KNOW he bought the Ducati in Virginia, but now that you mention it I think I remember a reference to a Virginia purchase for the VX as well....

I mean maybe he did have some link to Matrix Capital (Denver) from the Utah days or something.

I still would like to know more about that darn check though! As I said, for anyone in those sorts of financial circumstances, especially, that's a lot of money. To be sending out, or to be receiving, for something...

[golfmom]

I've been driving my VX since 2000. I first saw it at an Iron Man event back in 96-97? I was in high school then and that car became my dream car. I sat in it and thought it was the coolest thing ever. In 1999 I was driving by the usual Isuzu dealership when I spotted the VX in their showroom. I traded in my 1997 Blazer ZR2 SUV which had 33's, all chromed out and cherry red. At the time it was the hottest little SUV around. My wife was furious, but shortly fell in love with the VX. She still thinks of the VX as a horrible investment because of how much it has depreciated in value. I was a little disappointed too, but after thinking about it, VALUE IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.

There's another post somewhere that references how he never dreamed he'd be the owner of a $32K vehicle so soon. I think it was on one of his websites.

[Jenifred]

In 1999 I was driving by the usual Isuzu dealership when I spotted the VX in their showroom. I traded in my 1997 Blazer ZR2 SUV which had 33's, all chromed out and cherry red. At the time it was the hottest little SUV around. My wife was furious, but shortly fell in love with the VX. She still thinks of the VX as a horrible investment because of how much it has depreciated in value. I was a little disappointed too, but after thinking about it, VALUE IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.He was in Virginia in 99. And he was married already. Then the purchase had to have been made between August 99 and Dec 99. Unless, this post was a flashback and he was referring to his fiancee at the time as his wife. (You know he is pretty poetic.)

Thanks for saving me the trouble, gm!

[SouthEastSleuth]

So, I guess my point about all of that is this:

-He bought the VX new in 1999 in Virginia (according to his post on VX boards)

-In January 2004 he references that it will be paid for next year (2005)

-In February 2005, he posts that it's up for sale due to his financial circumstances, and that he's already a few months behind on payments

-Later in February and early March 2005 he makes a few more posts about his VX, regarind installing a CB radio, and doing some other maintenance.

So in February he was several months behind in payments, but presumably that car was never reposessed, or at least not to our knowledge...

There is some check taken via the search warrant, $1200ish, Matrix Capital. We have no idea how the check was made out: to or from the Abaroas, OR, if it had anything to do with the VX, or any other vehicle for that matter.... But, there was the check, nonetheless.

We also know that in Febuary 2005 he posted that he was trying to sell the Ducati. No word on what happened on that front.

And we also know that at the point the search warrant was issued, it referenced the Dodge Durango.

We know that at least at the beginning of 2004 they still had Janet's Acura (as referenced by the Durham County Tax records (the taxes were paid in February, if I remember correctly).

I'm banging my head a little I guess, as it all goes back to my initial musings on what that check was all about, and, what happened with all those vehicles! LOL

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Up until 1998, he lived in Utah, I believe. And he bought the 1999 VX new, so maybe that check to Matrix is to pay off the car loan or to make up whatever payments he recently missed?LE must have thought that there might be some significance to the check if they took it, right?

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

-In January 2004 he references that it will be paid for next year (2005)

-In February 2005, he posts that it's up for sale due to his financial circumstances, and that he's already a few months behind on paymentsWhat's the maximum repayment term on a new automobile purchase? My used car, being less than 5 years old, got me repayment terms of 60 months. If it was new, I believe I could have paid it back over a longer period of time but I can't remember how long. Is there a standard or is that also based on who the lender is?

My question is this ... if the VX was supposed to be paid off in 2005, and he was a few payments behind as of Feb. 2005, how many payments could have been left on it before he owned it outright? It couldn't have been many considering how long he'd already owned it. Why give it up so close to when it's finally paid off? Unless he was more than a few payments behind but then it would probably have been repossessed already. Or could it be that he's been behind on it for quite some time, and has been paying just enough to cover the late fees and minimal principal, basically just treading water? Or were the finances so bad that he'd sacrifice a vehicle he loved with less than 12 payments on it just to get some cash?

[golfmom]

It just doesn't make sense to me. But not much is today . . .
I would think at this point it would be CHEAPER to hang on to it.
He knows it, so no surprise mechanical problems ... he's taken care of it ... and his payout should be less than what he could by even a used car for.

[SouthEastSleuth]

What's the maximum repayment term on a new automobile purchase? My used car, being less than 5 years old, got me repayment terms of 60 months. If it was new, I believe I could have paid it back over a longer period of time but I can't remember how long. Is there a standard or is that also based on who the lender is?

My question is this ... if the VX was supposed to be paid off in 2005, and he was a few payments behind as of Feb. 2005, how many payments could have been left on it before he owned it outright? It couldn't have been many considering how long he'd already owned it. Why give it up so close to when it's finally paid off? Unless he was more than a few payments behind but then it would probably have been repossessed already. Or could it be that he's been behind on it for quite some time, and has been paying just enough to cover the late fees and minimal principal, basically just treading water? Or were the finances so bad that he'd sacrifice a vehicle he loved with less than 12 payments on it just to get some cash?
I THINK, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can get new car loans these days for 6 years.

And I agree totally, it seems like that it had to be fairly close to being paid for.... but then again, maybe the circumstances in those last 6-8 months, with Eurosport, etc., had gotten him way behind in payments, even being that close to paying it off!

I know that must have been painful for him, as it's obvious that that car was his pride and joy....

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

It just doesn't make sense to me. But not much is today . . .
I would think at this point it would be CHEAPER to hang on to it.
He knows it, so no surprise mechanical problems ... he's taken care of it ... and his payout should be less than what he could by even a used car for.Exactly. So why would someone give up a vehicle they claim to love so close to payoff? Unless I'm missing something, I don't get it.

[anneshirley]

So in February he was several months behind in payments, but presumably that car was never reposessed, or at least not to our knowledge...


I don't know much about repossessing so I don't know if once a vehicle is repossessed the owner can reclaim it. BUT I do know for certain that Raven drove the VX to the funeral in Buena Vista, VA. I saw it in the parking lot which would make me assume it was never repossessed.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I THINK, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you can get new car loans these days for 6 years.

And I agree totally, it seems like that it had to be fairly close to being paid for.... but then again, maybe the circumstances in those last 6-8 months, with Eurosport, etc., had gotten him way behind in payments, even being that close to paying it off!Actually, the repayment term doesn't even matter now that I think about it because he said it would be paid by 2005. Unless he was either planning on making a few double payments to pay it early or he was just talking to give a certain impression.

If he had been way behind in payments, I would think that it would have been repossessed by now.

A thought just popped into my mind. Could it be that the check was post-dated and made out for his vehicle? To say a date in late May or June, (as if he was expecting some cash to come his way)? $1200 is a lot to wait on. For most of us, one paycheck isn't going to cover that.

[golfmom]

I don't know much about repossessing so I don't know if once a vehicle is repossessed the owner can reclaim it. BUT I do know for certain that Raven drove the VX to the funeral in Buena Vista, VA. I saw it in the parking lot which would make me assume it was never repossessed.

Be hard for someone to repo it considering he's not be back *home*.

[golfmom]

A thought just popped into my mind. Could it be that the check was post-dated and made out for his vehicle? To say a date in late May or June, (as if he was expecting some cash to come his way)? $1200 is a lot to wait on. For most of us, one paycheck isn't going to cover that.

:doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
$1,200 ! ! ! !

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

A thought just popped into my mind. Could it be that the check was post-dated and made out for his vehicle? To say a date in late May or June, (as if he was expecting some cash to come his way)? $1200 is a lot to wait on. For most of us, one paycheck isn't going to cover that.There's got to be a reason that LE took that check. I don't believe that that's customary. There had to be something that made it stick out as if it might be pertinent as a piece of evidence.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I don't know much about repossessing so I don't know if once a vehicle is repossessed the owner can reclaim it. BUT I do know for certain that Raven drove the VX to the funeral in Buena Vista, VA. I saw it in the parking lot which would make me assume it was never repossessed.
Yes, if I had searched properly, duh, I would have remembered you saying that previously anneshirley!! Thank you!!

So, that said. If he behind several payments in February, and trying to sell the car.....

But, still had it at Janet's funeral....

Wouldn't it stand to reason that SOMEHOW he caught up the payments??? I mean someon posted earlier that depending on the lender, at most you could be behind 2-3 months before they would reposess. Feb - May is another 204 months. Seems to me that somehow the car payments were brought current. And maybe even paid off entirely by now, who knows.

Which brings me back, once again, to how all of these things are being financed!?!?!?!?!?!?!

IF indeed, he was able to get the car payments caught up, that had to be a fairly significant chunk of money.

AND, don't forget, he presumably has at least some legal bills, etc., with regard to the embezzlement charges.

We do not know for a FACT that Raven ever started a new job and was bringing in a paycheck.

We DO know they were behind on the rent at Ferrand Drive.

SO - SHOW ME THE MONEY? WHERE WAS THE PRESUMABLY EXCESS MONEY COMING FROM????

A friend helping out?

A family member helping out??

[NCBanker]

In answer to the questions concerning length of time for financing, you can now finance a new OR used car for 72 months (depending upon the lender). Not that it matters, I just wanted to inform. Banks will repossess anywhere from 2 months on up to 4 months, for the really lenient lenders. If they can't find the car (as someone already pointed out) it can't be repossessed. Additionally, in NC, if someone is in the process (meaning literally doing it) of repossessing your car, and you tell them to stop, they must by law cease and desist. Just mentioning this to explain why he may still have it. I'll be happy to answer any additional questions relative to this, if I've confused anyone.

Be hard for someone to repo it considering he's not be back *home*.

[anneshirley]

Be hard for someone to repo it considering he's not be back *home*.And yet with a vehicle like that, it'd be hard to not stand out, therefore making it harder to run, right? (didn't the VX website or Raven mention that that was the point of owning a VX-to stand out?)
I would think we'd want to check and see if he's looking for a buyer, currently. If so, it might not only be an indication that he's needing money or "downsizing" for the baby, but that he's looking for a more inconspicuous mode of transport.
Just an opinion, though.

[misterallgood]

Host Name gnat-bocks.aoc.state.nc.us IP Address 204.152.2.230 Country United States Region North Carolina City Raleigh ISP Adminstrative Office Of The Courts
Here's what this webpage (http://www.nccourts.org/Courts/CRS/AOCAdmin/Default.asp) says the "Administrative Office of the Courts" does: The Administrative Office of the Courts (AOC) is the administrative arm of the Judicial Branch. The AOC provides statewide support services for the courts, including information, technology, personnel, financial, legal, research and purchasing services. In addition, the AOC prepares and administers the court system's over $360 million budget and employs more than 400 people.

[golfmom]

Host Name gnat-bocks.aoc.state.nc.us IP Address 204.152.2.230 Country United States Region North Carolina City Raleigh ISP Adminstrative Office Of The Courts
[/indent]

Well isn't that an interesting little tidbit of information. I wonder if anyone is getting nervous?

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Host Name gnat-bocks.aoc.state.nc.us IP Address 204.152.2.230 Country United States Region North Carolina City Raleigh ISP Adminstrative Office Of The Courts


Here's what this webpage (http://www.nccourts.org/Courts/CRS/AOCAdmin/Default.asp) says the "Administrative Office of the Courts" does: The Administrative Office of the Courts (AOC) is the administrative arm of the Judicial Branch. The AOC provides statewide support services for the courts, including information, technology, personnel, financial, legal, research and purchasing services. In addition, the AOC prepares and administers the court system's over $360 million budget and employs more than 400 people.




Oh my, Mister A ... I hope that this is good, good news!

[misterallgood]

Oh my, Mister A ... I hope that this is good, good news!
I have no idea if it means something or not, but they've read the site before, and I couldn't help but notice, considering that I've only written about two crimes from NC lately -- the murder of the Sapikowski family -- just one entry -- and the multiple entries about Janet's murder.

Since they never seem to just pop in, but usually stay awhile, I don't think they're just reading one entry.

Mr. A.

[golfmom]

statewide support services for the courts, including information, technology, personnel, financial, legal, research and purchasing services

Could it be . . .
support for courts: yes
technology: unless it's support for courts it's unlikely
personnel: not unless they're thinking about hiring misterallgood
financial: is misterallgood looking to refinance a loan through the courts, uh no
legal: does misterallgood have any legal problems in nc, uh no
research: well they could be researching a case misterallgood has been featuring
purchasing services: I don't think misterallgood is selling his services at this time

[SouthEastSleuth]

I just went back and read the search warrant again.


They describe the house, then it states as follows:

"In the driveway, located to the right of the residence is a 1998 Dodge Durango, Gray in color..." then goes on to give the license plate and VIN.

WHERE WERE THE OTHER VEHICLES??

I mean the search warrant was executed at 5:45AM on the morning of the 27th. Maybe Raven had been allowed to leave already and had taken a vehicle? But the others? (Should be a VX sitting around, the Durango, and the Acura. And maybe the Ducati even??)

I guess there's a logistics question here as well. Someone leaves the house, goes back to get the warrant, types up the first parts....where the Durango is mentioned as being in the driveway.... Is this LE person doing this from memory, (as in what cars where there when he/she left?) or what??

[Jesstexas]

And just WHERE was the VX the night of the murder? If he had driven it to/from the soccer game, LE would have searched it, but there's no mention of it at all, is there?

And just where was the Acura, for the matter? The only vehicle mentioned in the search warrant is the Dodge Durango.

Maybe the VX was kept somewhere other than the Ferrand Drive home so that it could not be repossessed during the time he was behind on the payments?

[Jesstexas]

Oops - I guess we're on the same wavelength, SES.

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

I have no idea if it means something or not, but they've read the site before, and I couldn't help but notice, considering that I've only written about two crimes from NC lately -- the murder of the Sapikowski family -- just one entry -- and the multiple entries about Janet's murder.

Since they never seem to just pop in, but usually stay awhile, I don't think they're just reading one entry.

Mr. A.It also seems ironic that they're showing up again mere days after the media announced the Christmas video that "they uncovered". ETA: Would LE reach out to the media source to find out where they got the video from if there was something that caught their interest?

[golfmom]

Could the Matrix check have been from a company 401(k) account? or benefits of some sort paid out from Eurosport?

[OriginalJerseyGirl]

Could the Matrix check have been from a company 401(k) account? or benefits of some sort paid out from Eurosport?Or made out to someone else that didn't live in that house?