Raven is innocent!

[Rooster]

I'm sure I read a post way back in discussion #2. NCbanker said his source told him they had cleared Raven weeks ago...and to start looking at other possibilities.

[chicoliving]

All opinions are welcome at WS. A reminder for all to follow the terms of service.

[NCBanker]

Raven wasn't a serious POI a few weeks ago, but that status could very well change.

I'm sure I read a post way back in discussion #2. NCbanker said his source told him they had cleared Raven weeks ago...and to start looking at other possibilities.

[Rooster]

Maybe you could check with your source and get an up date.:o

[NCBanker]

Actually, at this point, I think I'm going to let LE do their work. If I hear something, I may post it privately, but we need to let LE work this case without sensitive information being leaked.

As I have mentioned in other threads, there is a substantial amount of circumstantial evidence that screams Raven's guilty, too much in fact.

Raven needs to be convinced to come out of hiding and plead with the public for help in this case. If he is innocent, more details concerning the murder need to be released, i.e. the soccer game that night, the time of death, Janet's coworkers who tried to contact her, etc. We want light shed on these unanswered questions. At this point, he has been tried in absentia by the parties in this forum and he has been found guilty, based solely on circumstantial evidence.

Let the information flow.

Maybe you could check with your source and get an up date.:o

[Rooster]

I am aware that most of the people who post here have already decided he is guilty. I belive he is innocent of murder. I'm sure other "lurkers" share my opinion. I don't condone his action's or behavior. I'm sure he's guilty of some of the things posted here. But, I belive he is innocent of Murder.

[juliagoulia]

I am aware that most of the people who post here have already decided he is guilty. I belive he is innocent of murder. I'm sure other "lurkers" share my opinion. I don't condone his action's or behavior. I'm sure he's guilty of some of the things posted here. But, I belive he is innocent of Murder.Can you elaborate on why you feel he is innocent? The poll on this thread shows you are in the minority, so your opinion would be significant.

[Rooster]

I just thought we could start a thread to observe some other options. I read that post awhile back, from NCbanker, saying his "solid" source had cleared him. I thought maybe we could come up with some other ideas. Like...I belive it was a robbery gone bad. I think someone was there robbing the house...then Janet suprised the burglar...and he/she stabbed her.

[NCBanker]

Burglars don't typically stab the homeowners. They run. We have no evidence that anything was stolen. The press certainly hasn't indicated that it appeared to be a robbery, and the police said it wasn't a random crime. Robberies are random crimes. This was personal. It has been stated that she only suffered from 3 stab wounds. That is methodical and planned.

I just thought we could start a thread to observe some other options. I read that post awhile back, from NCbanker, saying his "solid" source had cleared him. I thought maybe we could come up with some other ideas. Like...I belive it was a robbery gone bad. I think someone was there robbing the house...then Janet suprised the burglar...and he/she stabbed her.

[Roddick]

A vast majority of burglars are unarmed and commit no violent acts. Most of them are only interested in theft. Those who are interested in violence bring their own weapons and usually don't rely on knives because they are not as effective as guns. If she was killed using a knife from the kitchen but was found in a bedroom, it seems highly unlikely that a burglar was involved unless he dragged her into the bedroom to leave her there... which would seem rather stupid. The police have stated that this was not a random crime (which negates your postulation that this was a burglary). The murder weapon is certainly a reason why... most people who plan murders don't use knives... it's too easy to screw it up... there are always exceptions to the rule, but most premeditated murders involve other means of exacting death upon the victim.

[Rooster]

All of them run...no exceptions? Maybe the house wasn't locked. So no forced entery was needed. Leading the police to belive that it was someone they knew.

[Roddick]

Rooster there are always exceptions to the rule... but rules are usually rules because they happen most of the time. Do you have any other ideas for why Raven would not be guilty? I went to college with him and Janet and I am really hoping that he didn't do this even though the circumstantial evidence is kind of scary.

[Rooster]

He's been "cleared" by LE. They haven't arrested him. I know they are way ahead of all this stuff the poeple on this sight come up with. Not that it's not good relivent stuff. I just think LE is way ahead of it. So they haven't charged him or arrested him. He's innocent. Let's try and find the real killer. I hope when all the forensic stuff come's back from the lab we'll have more to go on.

[Roddick]

Well if the killing was in fact random, that makes LE's job 100x harder in trying to find the perp. If the killing WAS random, there is an even greater need for Raven and the family to start trying to drum up some information from the public but they've been reluctant to do that... that's why I agree that it wasn't random. Otherwise the police would have "strongly suggested" that Raven and the family be a little more proactive in trying to obtain information.

[misterallgood]

I've been trying to think of a case similar to this where the police were so close-mouthed, and there aren't many.

And... in every one where they gave lie detector tests to the husband or boyfriend and he passed, or in every case where the guy had an airtight alibi, they would proactively state the man was not a POI or suspect.

There has been no direct, public statement by the Durham PD that Raven is not a POI. In fact, they did make it a point to say the crime was not random.

The moment they issue a press release or give an interview where a named representative of that law enforcement agency says Raven is not a suspect I will begin to wonder what happened, and worry for folks in that area. If I were Raven, I'd be demanding they do this at this point. If he is, and they aren't complying, that means the police cannot in good conscience do so.

It isn't that I mistrust or disbelieve NCBanker; it's just that I want to hear a named rep. for the Durham PD say it if it is to be said. That hasn't happened.

It is fair to say that he hasn't been accused directly, either. To me, the "not random" statement was the closest they've come to saying; someone made it a point to kill Janet Abaroa.

Therefore, with that "not random" statement in mind, all questions in my mind have to be connected to this one; why would someone make it a point to kill Janet?

A woman whom we are told over and over again was very quiet and unassuming. Who was shy and soft-spoken. Who tended to keep her troubles to herself. We've even seen her speak in the 2:03 Xmas greeting video. Her voice was so low you had to strain to make out everything she said -- but Raven spoke smoothly the whole time and even proudly showed us his new knife.

As soon as the Durham Police Department, which as far as I know is the investigative agency of record here, makes a direct statement in some manner that Raven Abaroa is not now a person of interest in his wife's murder, I will begin to re-think this crime with that in mind.

Mr. A.

[Rooster]

Is there someone lurking on this site, who played soccer with Raven on the night of April 26th, who wants to back up Ravens alibi? (dosn't hurt to ask. :o ) PM me if you want to.

[lauriej]

I just thought we could start a thread to observe some other options. I read that post awhile back, from NCbanker, saying his "solid" source had cleared him. I thought maybe we could come up with some other ideas. Like...I belive it was a robbery gone bad. I think someone was there robbing the house...then Janet suprised the burglar...and he/she stabbed her.
.........i think robbers would more likely SHOOT a witness , and if they were to stab them, ( with the knife they brought along just in case ) then it would be more than ONCE ( as we know janet was fatally stabbed once to the chest.....)to ensure the witness was indeed no longer a witness......but in general, i don't think your average house burglar is also a cold blooded murderer....

...nope..............i don't buy the robbery theory...

...raven was cleared? b/c of the blood spatters NOT being on the clothes he SAID he was wearing that night ? at this point i'm not believing anything raven has said, without solid proof to back up his statements...

...he and janet's own friends/acquaintances have either directly or indirectly posted here that they believe him to be very capable of this........( that's a HUGE plus sign on the guilty poll...)

...if i were raven..............and innocent.....and knew of the suspicions surrounding him.....i'd be all over the media/LE demanding air time to proclaim my innocence! take a lie detector....and ask for the public's help..........anything to find the real killer...

...raven is very internet savvy..........has sites ( a family site even ), blogs etc, where is his tribute to his wife ? he began a blog titled "til we meet again' some time ago.............that's it...the title.......no entry has followed.......why?

...raven has been online numerous times since april 26th..........as noted as he logs onto his "myspace" account...........why then has he not been all over every site he frequents with questions/comments of his wife's murder? ( all that are available are OLD entries.....)a simple google search will bring up this site a hundred times..............

...his LACK of participation in this makes you wonder.............

[lauriej]

He's been "cleared" by LE. They haven't arrested him. I know they are way ahead of all this stuff the poeple on this sight come up with. Not that it's not good relivent stuff. I just think LE is way ahead of it. So they haven't charged him or arrested him. He's innocent. Let's try and find the real killer. I hope when all the forensic stuff come's back from the lab we'll have more to go on.
.........no they haven't charged or arrested him..........they didn't charge or arrest scott peterson either until the bodies washed ashore...

...in a circumstantial case, i'm sure LE is making sure they have all of their t's crossed and i's dotted before taking it to a grand jury.....

...i don't believe that b/c he hasn't been arrested means that he's "been cleared" by LE at all.....

[Rooster]

.........i think robbers would more likely SHOOT a witness , and if they were to stab them, ( with the knife they brought along just in case ) then it would be more than ONCE ( as we know janet was fatally stabbed once to the chest.....)to ensure the witness was indeed no longer a witness......but in general, i don't think your average house burglar is also a cold blooded murderer....

...nope..............i don't buy the robbery theory...

...raven was cleared? b/c of the blood spatters NOT being on the clothes he SAID he was wearing that night ? at this point i'm not believing anything raven has said, without solid proof to back up his statements...

...he and janet's own friends/acquaintances have either directly or indirectly posted here that they believe him to be very capable of this........( that's a HUGE plus sign on the guilty poll...)

...if i were raven..............and innocent.....and knew of the suspicions surrounding him.....i'd be all over the media/LE demanding air time to proclaim my innocence! take a lie detector....and ask for the public's help..........anything to find the real killer...

...raven is very internet savvy..........has sites ( a family site even ), blogs etc, where is his tribute to his wife ? he began a blog titled "til we meet again' some time ago.............that's it...the title.......no entry has followed.......why?

...raven has been online numerous times since april 26th..........as noted as he logs onto his "myspace" account...........why then has he not been all over every site he frequents with questions/comments of his wife's murder? ( all that are available are OLD entries.....)a simple google search will bring up this site a hundred times..............

...his LACK of participation in this makes you wonder.............
Maybe his lawyer is advising him not to talk to the media. Maybe his is doing everything he can to help LE find Janets killer. If you knew you were a POI would you go on T.V. and beg the person who did this to turn themselves in? I'm sure LE is doing their job and has asked everyone in the neighborhood what they know. They have also publicly asked anyone with any information to contact them. So the public knows who to call if they know anything. I'm sure Raven, and the families, want to find the murderer more than anyone else. Just because they arn't on the news everyday it dosen't mean they arn't helping LE.

[lauriej]

Well if the killing was in fact random, that makes LE's job 100x harder in trying to find the perp. If the killing WAS random, there is an even greater need for Raven and the family to start trying to drum up some information from the public but they've been reluctant to do that... that's why I agree that it wasn't random. Otherwise the police would have "strongly suggested" that Raven and the family be a little more proactive in trying to obtain information.
......many of the news reports immediatly folloiwng the murder stated ( already ) that police believed "this was not random"......

ie: http://newsobserver.com/news/story/2368828p-8746832c.html (http://newsobserver.com/news/story/2368828p-8746832c.html)

...considering that this murder took place on the same night that the "run-away bride" ran away.............both raven and LE are very aware of the power of the media.....why aren't either utilizing them in janet's case ???

[cappuccina]

...Raven's lack of public pleading for his wife's killer to be "brought to justice..."

The only other "loved ones" of a murder victim who have been this quiet are JonBenet Ramsey's parents (also NOT a random crime), IMO; even they made a few halfhearted attemots to "find their daughter's killer"...

[juliagoulia]

The silence from Raven is deafening. A news article on 5/3/05 stated that he retained an attorney just days after Janet was killed (http://www.wral.com/news/4443707/detail.html). Naturally, a good lawyer would not allow him to make public statements about the case. However, if he HAS been cleared, then there would be nothing to stop him from speaking out or defending himself or pleading publicly for help to solve the case.

So why isn't he?

[lauriej]

All of them run...no exceptions? Maybe the house wasn't locked. So no forced entery was needed. Leading the police to belive that it was someone they knew.
.........if raven left at 7 p.m.....nice evening....early.....who locks their house up at that time ?

...i think robbers generally DO run if seen...........robbers are robbers not murderers.....

[Rooster]

The silence from Raven is deafening. A news article on 5/3/05 stated that he retained an attorney just days after Janet was killed (http://www.wral.com/news/4443707/detail.html). Naturally, a good lawyer would not allow him to make public statements about the case. However, if he HAS been cleared, then there would be nothing to stop him from speaking out or defending himself or pleading publicly for help to solve the case.

So why isn't he? Everyone's waiting to publicly hear the news that he's cleared. I'm sure his lawyer is advising him to keep quiet until then.

[lauriej]

Maybe his lawyer is advising him not to talk to the media. Maybe his is doing everything he can to help LE find Janets killer. If you knew you were a POI would you go on T.V. and beg the person who did this to turn themselves in? I'm sure LE is doing their job and has asked everyone in the neighborhood what they know. They have also publicly asked anyone with any information to contact them. So the public knows who to call if they know anything. I'm sure Raven, and the families, want to find the murderer more than anyone else. Just because they arn't on the news everyday it dosen't mean they arn't helping LE.
...if i were a POI in a murder investigation, and knew i was innocent, yes , i'd take advantage of the media.....and would be all over the place proclaiming my innocence....

...maybe he is doing all he can to help LE.....a post here on WS had info that he "claimed " to be doing just that..................and yet wasn.t.........( at this point, without a news conference with raven himself) i believe the poster as much as i believe raven.........

...quote: "just b/c they aren't on the news everyday................".(..........they haven't been on the news AT ALL.............)

...we definitely NEED an update from LE.....crime lab info....TOD is critical.....based on what we have right here/rightnow 'the husband' does not look good............

[Rooster]

.........if raven left at 7 p.m.....nice evening....early.....who locks their house up at that time ?

...i think robbers generally DO run if seen...........robbers are robbers not murderers.....
What if Janet walked in on him/her in the office and caught the burglar/murderer in there. Maybe the burglar/murder felt trapped if Janet was in the door way. Maybe the murderer felt they had to fight their way out. Of course this is all speculation.

[cappuccina]

...there are some "generic" things that he could say that would not interfere with what his lawyer wishes him to do... :twocents:

Why'd he need to get a lawyer so early on, or at all, d'ya 's'pose??

[lauriej]

What if Janet walked in on him/her in the office and caught the burglar/murderer in there. Maybe the burglar/murder felt trapped if Janet was in the door way. Maybe the murderer felt they had to fight their way out. Of course this is all speculation.
.............maybe it's just me, but i have a hard time seeing a simple house burglar....( what....some computer equipment? ) commiting murder......

MAYBE a stray bullet that happens to hit the target.....but a SINGLE knife plunge to the heart? over a robbery that wasn't even completed ?

[lauriej]

...there are some "generic" things that he could say that would not interfere with what his lawyer wishes him to do... :twocents:

Why'd he need to get a lawyer so early on, or at all, d'ya 's'pose??
...exactly...

..after all john mason ( run-away bride fame....) had a lawyer.....and YET was on greta.....etc............blah blah blah'ing away....................( oh, of course he was innocent...)

[Rooster]

...there are some "generic" things that he could say that would not interfere with what his lawyer wishes him to do... :twocents:

Why'd he need to get a lawyer so early on, or at all, d'ya 's'pose??
So you don't WRONGFULLY get convicted of murder. We are all entitled to legal counsel. It's our right! You have the right to remain silent. You know... innocent untill proven guilty. The land of the free! America....

[Rooster]

.............maybe it's just me, but i have a hard time seeing a simple house burglar....( what....some computer equipment? ) commiting murder......

MAYBE a stray bullet that happens to hit the target.....but a SINGLE knife plunge to the heart? over a robbery that wasn't even completed ?
How do you know nothing was taken?

[cappuccina]

...are you a soccer player?

[Rooster]

No.Please don't start a game of 20 questions with me.

[cappuccina]

just wanted an answer to a simple question, thanks... :)

[Rooster]

You're welcome:slap: :)

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: What if Janet walked in on him/her in the office and caught the burglar/murderer in there. Maybe the burglar/murder felt trapped if Janet was in the door way. Maybe the murderer felt they had to fight their way out. Of course this is all speculation.
Oh, I'm sorry......that was probably not written to be funny, however it did make me LOL when I read it.....

I am not saying Raven is guilty but do you seriously think that a stranger entered into an occupied house and made it upstairs to the bedroom/office to steal something and Janet (a shy quiet nonconfrontational peacemaker girl) caught him and he felt trapped so he murdered her????

[Rooster]

:laugh:
Oh, I'm sorry......that was probably not written to be funny, however it did make me LOL when I read it.....

I am not saying Raven is guilty but do you seriously think that a stranger entered into an occupied house and made it upstairs to the bedroom/office to steal something and Janet (a shy quiet nonconfrontational peacemaker girl) caught him and he felt trapped so he murdered her????
If it was a woman...she could have. Try not to be so narrow minded.;)

[cappuccina]

...this was NOT a home invasion/robbery. I think that if it were, the perp. would have prolly tried to move/take something before murdering Janet. Sooo, on the warrant, there would have been a list of household stuff that they would have taken in to be fingerprinted/tested.

Instead what do we see on the warrant...a LOT of RAVEN'S clothes and related items...

Please don't tell me that the dude/OK, I'll add "gal" now (!) broke in to steal used sports jerseys, underwear and shoes...

[Rooster]

Dude or dudette took a lap top. And probably didn't leave it behind to be fingerprinted.

[ewwwinteresting]

No.Please don't start a game of 20 questions with me.
IMO, don't even need one question for the answer.

[JerseyGirl]

I just thought we could start a thread to observe some other options. I read that post awhile back, from NCbanker, saying his "solid" source had cleared him. I thought maybe we could come up with some other ideas. Like...I belive it was a robbery gone bad. I think someone was there robbing the house...then Janet suprised the burglar...and he/she stabbed her.You could be right. While the things we've been discussing here do make me wonder, I am not 100% convinced it was Raven. I do want to say, however, that I find it highly unlikely that Raven would have been cleared so shortly after the murder. Whether it was him or not, I don't think that all of the evidence would have been back after only 3 weeks, would it?

This line keeps jumping out at me:

(Investigators) say it was not a random crime and the public is not in any danger.

Eyewitness News 11.com: New Video Surfaces of Abaroas (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/060305_NW_abaroacouple.html)

Maybe it wasn't Raven but LE seems pretty confident that Janet was definitely the intended target. From what we've been hearing about Janet, I can't imagine why anyone would target her.

[ewwwinteresting]

This line keeps jumping out at me:

(Investigators) say it was not a random crime and the public is not in any danger.
With that statement said, it couldn't be a robbery that went bad..otherwise the public would be in danger.

Golfmom....were you the reason of the new publicity? If so, :clap: :clap: :clap:

[JerseyGirl]

Burglars don't typically stab the homeowners. They run. We have no evidence that anything was stolen. The press certainly hasn't indicated that it appeared to be a robbery, and the police said it wasn't a random crime. Robberies are random crimes. This was personal. It has been stated that she only suffered from 3 stab wounds. That is methodical and planned.And if it were a robbery, why do it between 7 and 11 P.M. Wouldn't you be afraid that the spouse would come home, a car would drive by, the neighbor would pull into their driveway, etc. Why not pull off the robbery at 2 or 3 in the morning when it's much less likely you'll get caught? There are burglars that will enter a home while people are awake but it's fairly uncommon. Most of them will wait until they can get in and get out without possible confrontation.

[JerseyGirl]

He's been "cleared" by LE. They haven't arrested him. I know they are way ahead of all this stuff the poeple on this sight come up with. Not that it's not good relivent stuff. I just think LE is way ahead of it.Well, the media sure wasn't. Golfmom just posted a new story about the media coming across a Christmas video of the Abaroa's. Misterallgood found that video weeks ago! I don't know what LE knows but it is possible that posters here have found stuff of which LE wasn't aware - especially if they didn't take a computer into evidence.

[ewwwinteresting]

Well, the media sure wasn't. Golfmom just posted a new story about the media coming across a Christmas video of the Abaroa's. Misterallgood found that video weeks ago! I don't know what LE knows but it is possible that posters here have found stuff of which LE wasn't aware - especially if they didn't take a computer into evidence.
Do you think there was a reason the media left out the line "I collect knives" when they showed the video and wrote up the story?

[golfmom]

With that statement said, it couldn't be a robbery that went bad..otherwise the public would be in danger.

Golfmom....were you the reason of the new publicity? If so, :clap: :clap: :clap:

Heck, I don't know. Ya'll know I had that *off* day around here and started ranting. I did send out a *few* emails that day. :angel:

[golfmom]

Over in the discussion thread I just posted about the difference between confirmed and credible.

It is very important when we shift through the facts of this case to make sure that we understand the difference. Especially since almost all information we have are coming through sources or Raven's online activity.

[ewwwinteresting]

Heck, I don't know. Ya'll know I had that *off* day around here and started ranting. I did send out a *few* emails that day. :angel:
Well......here's to more *off* days:woohoo:

[JerseyGirl]

With that statement said, it couldn't be a robbery that went bad..otherwise the public would be in danger. Exactly!!! IMO, LE would not try to put that community at ease if they believed that this was random since the perp hasn't been arrested yet, and could still be out there.

[JerseyGirl]

Do you think there was a reason the media left out the line "I collect knives" when they showed the video and wrote up the story?Of course ... libel.

[Jenifred]

Maybe his lawyer is advising him not to talk to the media. Maybe his is doing everything he can to help LE find Janets killer. If you knew you were a POI would you go on T.V. and beg the person who did this to turn themselves in? I'm sure LE is doing their job and has asked everyone in the neighborhood what they know. They have also publicly asked anyone with any information to contact them. So the public knows who to call if they know anything. I'm sure Raven, and the families, want to find the murderer more than anyone else. Just because they arn't on the news everyday it dosen't mean they arn't helping LE.
If I knew that I was innocent of a crime, especially the murder of my spouse, I would still b doing everything I can to get this case in people's faces--even if that was going against the advice of my lawyer and if it means that there would be even more focus on my prior indescressions (embezzlement). Maybe that's the real reason he won't speak out--to save himself. Selfish _______. (fill it in with what sounds good to you)

[Jenifred]

Is there someone lurking on this site, who played soccer with Raven on the night of April 26th, who wants to back up Ravens alibi? (dosn't hurt to ask. :o ) PM me if you want to.
Or better yet, pm golfmom or mr.ag. But it's been already been asked and so far no bites--to my knowledge, of course.

[JerseyGirl]

Or better yet, pm golfmom or mr.ag. But it's been already been asked and so far no bites--to my knowledge, of course.I agree, an established member would be the best place to send any "inside information".

[golfmom]

Dude or dudette took a lap top. And probably didn't leave it behind to be fingerprinted.

Hi Rooster! Welcome to WS.

I have a quick question, do you have a link or source for the information that a laptop is missing? There's been a lot of speculation on this topic, but to my knowledge we haven't come up with anything solid.

Thanks!

[PrayersForMaura]

All of them run...no exceptions? Maybe the house wasn't locked. So no forced entery was needed. Leading the police to belive that it was someone they knew.
with a baby in the house?

[PrayersForMaura]

:laugh: IMO, don't even need one question for the answer.
LOL

[Moxie]

Dude or dudette took a lap top. And probably didn't leave it behind to be fingerprinted.
Hi Rooster,

Welcome to the board.

To my knowledge we were discussing a computer the whole time on this board. How did you know it was a laptop? How did you know it was missing?

Any information you can provide will be valued, I am sure.

Thanks,
Moxie

[PrayersForMaura]

Of course ... libel.libel is written word, slander is spoken, and if Raven said it it really wouldn't libel or slander him... it would be fact, and the inference from his statement -- if any at all -- would be left up to the public.

some would say... ooh, the weapon was a knife, must be him.
some would also say... collecting knives does not a murderer make.

[JerseyGirl]

libel is written word, slander is spoken, and if Raven said it it really wouldn't libel or slander him... it would be fact, and the inference from his statement -- if any at all -- would be left up to the public.

some would say... ooh, the weapon was a knife, must be him.
some would also say... collecting knives does not a murderer make.Here is the definition of libel:

1 a : a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought
b : archaic : a handbill especially attacking or defaming someone

2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression
b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt
(2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means
(3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures
(4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel

************************************************** ********
IMO, if I were a news editor, the above definition is a bit too loose for me to take the chance.

[PrayersForMaura]

Here is the definition of libel:

1 a : a written statement in which a plaintiff in certain courts sets forth the cause of action or the relief sought
b : archaic : a handbill especially attacking or defaming someone

2 a : a written or oral defamatory statement or representation that conveys an unjustly unfavorable impression
b (1) : a statement or representation published without just cause and tending to expose another to public contempt
(2) : defamation of a person by written or representational means
(3) : the publication of blasphemous, treasonable, seditious, or obscene writings or pictures
(4) : the act, tort, or crime of publishing such a libel

************************************************** ********
IMO, if I were a news editor, the above definition is a bit too loose for me to take the chance.
I used to be a crime reporter and a news editor 10 years ago and I guess we were quite lucky we never got sued, then, lol... :doh:

My opinion is, the news story wasn't complete, and they chose to make known that he has a new knife.... so they obviously used a statement that could cause one to raise a brow...
Raven saying he collects knives was a direct quote from Raven, and not a story written by a reporter with a slant on it... I think more libelous would be a statement from the news editor saying "Raven collects knives, a knife was used to kill Janet, therefore, Raven is most likely guilty".

So, are we all libeling Raven by writing this stuff? Because what we write and have uncovered seems to reach more people than that news story did.

[golfmom]

Raven could only sue himself for making that statement on video.

I really wish the title of this thread is "Janet was innocent"

[misterallgood]

But back to the "laptop."

We've only speculated here, so I just echo Moxie's question -- why would Rooster say "laptop"? Is that an assumption? Just curious.

Mr. A.

[LvsAMystry]

Hi Rooster! Welcome to WS.

I have a quick question, do you have a link or source for the information that a laptop is missing? There's been a lot of speculation on this topic, but to my knowledge we haven't come up with anything solid.

Thanks!

Hmmm. If this is true that a laptop is missing, is it possible Raven had an accomplice in illegal activities such as the embezzling, and the laptop would've backed up those ties? I'm reaching I know, but maybe there was stuff going on that was bigger than he's even charged with and it was reaching a head. Pretty strange to come in to take a laptop and murder someone over it, if that's the case. If so, it must have contained some pretty volatile stuff. Could also be why LE is so silent, they know but need to wait and tie it all together.

[golfmom]

My understanding is that laptop didn't leave Raven's side.

[golfmom]

............ is it possible Raven had an accomplice in illegal activities such as the embezzling ............

I've really been sitting on my hands trying not to speculate about an accomplice in the embezzlement. A family member? A soccer friend? A soccer team? Friends?

[PrayersForMaura]

Hmmm. If this is true that a laptop is missing, is it possible Raven had an accomplice in illegal activities such as the embezzling, and the laptop would've backed up those ties? I'm reaching I know, but maybe there was stuff going on that was bigger than he's even charged with and it was reaching a head. Pretty strange to come in to take a laptop and murder someone over it, if that's the case. If so, it must have contained some pretty volatile stuff. Could also be why LE is so silent, they know but need to wait and tie it all together.well there definitely could be more people involved in the embezzling, especially if much of the info was possibly being sold on ebay and shipped from different places. None of that is really confirmed though, but i wonder where Raven was shipping most of the ebay sales he made from? He must've made quite a few trips to the post office.

With Janet living there and so many things being soldon eBay, did he do his eBay business from home or elsewhere? Didn't Janet suspect anything?

[golfmom]

There could be lots of loop-holes in a computer system that he could have exploited. Just because we know he took merchandise doesn't exclude a couple of cash scams in there as well.

How about placing an order and then cancelling it and having the company issue a *refund* check for an order that was never paid for.

[Rooster]

I DO know Janet and Raven had a laptop. I DON'T know if the murderer took it for sure. It is however a good POSSIBILITY. Sorry, I don't have any hard evidence.

[golfmom]

I DO know Janet and Raven had a laptop. I DON'T know if the murderer took it for sure. It is however a good POSSIBILITY. Sorry, I don't have any hard evidence.

My understanding the laptop was attached by an umbilical cord to Raven. So it doesn't seem likely that he went anywhere without it. And if it had any evidence of his illegal embezzlement activites on it, I don't think he'd let it out of his sight.
:twocents:

[jager]

Again, have any of you that are critizing raven and the families involved about their actions after the murder ever been in a situation like this before? Even if you have I would say you are in no position to judge. Every situation and person is different. I can name a few cases where the a husband, wife, mother, father, etc has come out after the crime has happened and asked for the killers/criminals to be brought to justice. Didn't Scott peterson do this? I know Michele Smith? did, the women who said her kids were kidnapped by a black man (when she actually killed them). There are a lot of cases where this has happened and it turned out that the person speaking out was the one the commited the crime. Frankly if raven went to the media and started blabbing about how innocent he is and doing what some of you are saying I would suspect him more or atleast think he is very incompassionate. Why would you do that? That is the police's job, if they need information from the public or are wanting to dismiss a suspect they the should do it. They should not ask people that have just lost a loved one to do this.

Put yourself in raven's shoes. Now imagine that he is innocent (which he is ATM, remember it is america). If I was raven I would say f__k whatever the public thinks. Most of the public assume what they want anyway. Only .0000001% of the public are involved with this case or have information about it. I would just make sure the police have all the information they need and say screw the rest of you. Its Raven's, the families' involved, and the polices' business and that is it. You don't think that the families involved and raven want justice? Come on now. All they need to do is help the police with whatever information they request. And don't forget they have lost a loved one in a horrible way, which most of us cannot even phatom. Some of you cry and feel bad about this, but it is a billion times worse for the families. Yet you are speculating on stuff that you would do in their situation.

Note this wasn't aimed at everyone on this site just a few.Some of you guys provide a great service to the crime fighting world, I would imagine. Some of the others amaze me, I'm done with this site until anymore information is released.

[golfmom]

More information was released last night based on this site's activities.

This is what we do, we are websleuthers. There have been times when I've gotten frustrated too ... then I leave as well. Raven can tell us all to go to hell, that's his right to do so. But, we have every right to legitimately research and investigate this terrible tragedy as well.

There is justice for Janet and the future of Kaiden to think about besides how Raven is grieving right now.

[Thinkoflaura]

Raven could only sue himself for making that statement on video.

I really wish the title of this thread is "Janet was innocent"

Thank you for posting what you did, This is how I feel about the title of the thread .
Also, Raven's own video showing his own knife and saying that he LIKES knives with HIS mouth moving and the words coming out at the same time in his voice is just a bit like the MJ tapes.
Once something has been recorded then put on the Internet for all to see and hear, it's public domain information. Raven is his worst enemy in most of this!

He may be innocent. He has not been charged with murder, we all know this. However, the E- paper trail he left in his wake and the snapshots of Samuel Peters/ Raven Abaroa's life and Janet Abaroa's life which remain thanks to the WayBack Machine at the Internet Archive site have given us quite a lot of first person testimony about Raven from Raven.
Same with the eBay things. It's obvious to me from his selling history of over 250 transactions as a SELLER that he had an accomplice. Someone else was packing up the merchandise and getting it to customers in a very orderly manner, because his FB is great for the time he was selling so much. This is a man who needs a day planner to be able to function. He has said so in his comments about Franklin Covey day planner software. We also know that the pocketpcguru.com site was his attempt to capitalize on the PDA market and offer some kind of service there. So, he obviously thought a heck of a lot of his HP PDA and used it to keep himself focused. Maybe he has ADD or some other reason that he cannot concentrate well, I don't know. The fact that the PDA but not its docking station is missing as well as his computer or computers tells me that these items were important to someone. My bet's with the owner of the electronics, the person who virtually put his entire life for the past 5 years on the Internet.

Same with the photos NC Banker posted. They weren't incriminating, but they gave us a better sense of the house layout, its location relative to other homes. It made me happy that Janet was not living in squalor or near squalor like some women married to narcissistic men have had to do.

[Rooster]

My understanding the laptop was attached by an umbilical cord to Raven. So it doesn't seem likely that he went anywhere without it. And if it had any evidence of his illegal embezzlement activites on it, I don't think he'd let it out of his sight.
:twocents:
Raven states, on ravenstree, that he had "made some bad business decisions and that he was starting over." So, he had put the embezzling behind him...No need for a laptop at a soccer game. I think the laptop was probably at home.

Also, there was a pawn shop ticket in the found in the Durango. If he had pawned his regular computer, for money.(to buy food and diapers for his son and wife that he loved very much.) Then his laptop might have become the main computer for the family. Hummmm. The possibilities.

[PrayersForMaura]

Raven states, on ravenstree, that he had "made some bad business decisions and that he was starting over." So, he had put the embezzling behind him...No need for a laptop at a soccer game. I think the laptop was probably at home.

Also, there was a pawn shop ticket in the found in the Durango. If he had pawned his regular computer, for money.(to buy food and diapers for his son and wife that he loved very much.) Then his laptop might have become the main computer for the family. Hummmm. The possibilities.
I thought he used a blackberry type palm pilot thingie too??

[Thinkoflaura]

My question to you is: Do you understand what this forum is about? It is called " Crime Sleuthing Community".
We seek to find info and provide missing pieces. We are not paid, we do what we do as amateurs because we care for the dead, for the missing, for the children who have been exploited.

Janet's murder is certainly worth our time, using the info we are able to gather from Raven's MANY years of posting his life on the Internet.
I don't think any of us care whether or not Raven is happy, reads here, or comes here. Put myself in Raven's shoes. I couldn't, not for a million dollars. He has all of this Internet savviness and what does he do to get the information about his wife's murder out? Not a thing. He posts to www.myspace.com and maybe plays soccer.


This is about JANET. She is the one without a voice now. We are her advocates.


Again, have any of you that are critizing raven and the families involved about their actions after the murder ever been in a situation like this before? Even if you have I would say you are in no position to judge. Every situation and person is different. I can name a few cases where the a husband, wife, mother, father, etc has come out after the crime has happened and asked for the killers/criminals to be brought to justice. Didn't Scott peterson do this? I know Michele Smith? did, the women who said her kids were kidnapped by a black man (when she actually killed them). There are a lot of cases where this has happened and it turned out that the person speaking out was the one the commited the crime. Frankly if raven went to the media and started blabbing about how innocent he is and doing what some of you are saying I would suspect him more or atleast think he is very incompassionate. Why would you do that? That is the police's job, if they need information from the public or are wanting to dismiss a suspect they the should do it. They should not ask people that have just lost a loved one to do this.

Put yourself in raven's shoes. Now imagine that he is innocent (which he is ATM, remember it is america). If I was raven I would say f__k whatever the public thinks. Most of the public assume what they want anyway. Only .0000001% of the public are involved with this case or have information about it. I would just make sure the police have all the information they need and say screw the rest of you. Its Raven's, the families' involved, and the polices' business and that is it. You don't think that the families involved and raven want justice? Come on now. All they need to do is help the police with whatever information they request. And don't forget they have lost a loved one in a horrible way, which most of us cannot even phatom. Some of you cry and feel bad about this, but it is a billion times worse for the families. Yet you are speculating on stuff that you would do in their situation.

Note this wasn't aimed at everyone on this site just a few.Some of you guys provide a great service to the crime fighting world, I would imagine. Some of the others amaze me, I'm done with this site until anymore information is released.

[golfmom]

Raven states, on ravenstree, that he had "made some bad business decisions and that he was starting over." So, he had put the embezzling behind him...No need for a laptop at a soccer game. I think the laptop was probably at home.

Also, there was a pawn shop ticket in the found in the Durango. If he had pawned his regular computer, for money.(to buy food and diapers for his son and wife that he loved very much.) Then his laptop might have become the main computer for the family. Hummmm. The possibilities.

But, the day before he posted a picture that he dated of himself with Kaiden at the computer working on his home teaching stuff.

He could have put the embezzling behind him, but LE and Eurosport certainly hasn't ... so if he pawned the laptop to feed his family, they have it by now and that's why it wasn't in the search warrant.

[Moxie]

My question to you is: Do you understand what this forum is about? It is called " Crime Sleuthing Community".
We seek to find info and provide missing pieces. We are not paid, we do what we do as amateurs because we care for the dead, for the missing, for the children who have been exploited.

Janet's murder is certainly worth our time, using the info we are able to gather from Raven's MANY years of posting his life on the Internet.
I don't think any of us care whether or not Raven is happy, reads here, or comes here. Put myself in Raven's shoes. I couldn't, not for a million dollars. He has all of this Internet savviness and what does he do to get the information about his wife's murder out? Not a thing. He posts to www.myspace.com (http://www.myspace.com/) and maybe plays soccer.


This is about JANET. She is the one without a voice now. We are her advocates.
Amen, this is all about Janet.

I think it is strange that Raven isn't speaking publicly to find out who did this to his wife and to proclaim his innocence from the highest mountain, and to state he is working non-stop with LE to help them in anyway he can. If he was truly innocent, his attorney couldn't have any problem with Raven speaking out or taking a polygraph.

[Rooster]

Thank you for posting what you did, This is how I feel about the title of the thread .
Also, Raven's own video showing his own knife and saying that he LIKES knives with HIS mouth moving and the words coming out at the same time in his voice is just a bit like the MJ tapes.
Once something has been recorded then put on the Internet for all to see and hear, it's public domain information. Raven is his worst enemy in most of this!

He may be innocent. He has not been charged with murder, we all know this. However, the E- paper trail he left in his wake and the snapshots of Samuel Peters/ Raven Abaroa's life and Janet Abaroa's life which remain thanks to the WayBack Machine at the Internet Archive site have given us quite a lot of first person testimony about Raven from Raven.
Same with the eBay things. It's obvious to me from his selling history of over 250 transactions as a SELLER that he had an accomplice. Someone else was packing up the merchandise and getting it to customers in a very orderly manner, because his FB is great for the time he was selling so much. This is a man who needs a day planner to be able to function. He has said so in his comments about Franklin Covey day planner software. We also know that the pocketpcguru.com site was his attempt to capitalize on the PDA market and offer some kind of service there. So, he obviously thought a heck of a lot of his HP PDA and used it to keep himself focused. Maybe he has ADD or some other reason that he cannot concentrate well, I don't know. The fact that the PDA but not its docking station is missing as well as his computer or computers tells me that these items were important to someone. My bet's with the owner of the electronics, the person who virtually put his entire life for the past 5 years on the Internet.

Same with the photos NC Banker posted. They weren't incriminating, but they gave us a better sense of the house layout, its location relative to other homes. It made me happy that Janet was not living in squalor or near squalor like some women married to narcissistic men have had to do.
He didn't post his Christmas video for YOU all to see. He posted it as a Christmas card too his and Janet's family. I'm sure when his family see's it they see Raven being himself. Fun, outgoing, playfully conversing with his wife...

He has already pleaded GUILTY to the charges of embezzelment...

I think he is innocent of commiting murder.

[golfmom]

He didn't post his Christmas video for YOU all to see. .

Unfortunately for Raven once he posted it on the internet like that it became fair game for the world to see.

I also think that there is considerable reasons to believe that the laptop was not stolen. Raven may wish everyone to think that ... just like he'd like everyone to think that the embezzlement charges are resolved, but that is not true.

I believe he is guilty of murder.

[PrayersForMaura]

But, the day before he posted a picture that he dated of himself with Kaiden at the computer working on his home teaching stuff.

He could have put the embezzling behind him, but LE and Eurosport certainly hasn't ... so if he pawned the laptop to feed his family, they have it by now and that's why it wasn't in the search warrant.
I would've thought he could pawn his motorcycle and VX to pay for rent, as well as cancel internet access and other luxuries that one doens't need when one is hurting for money.

[Moxie]

He didn't post his Christmas video for YOU all to see. He posted it as a Christmas card too his and Janet's family. I'm sure when his family see's it they see Raven being himself. Fun, outgoing, playfully conversing with his wife...

He has already pleaded GUILTY to the charges of embezzelment...

I think he is innocent of commiting murder.
Hi Rooster,

Appreciate you joining us and posting your opinions. It seems like you know Raven and think very highly of him. Which I respect. Why or what is it about Raven that leads you to feel that he is not capable of committing murder?

Thanks,
Moxie

[Rooster]

I would've thought he could pawn his motorcycle and VX to pay for rent, as well as cancel internet access and other luxuries that one doens't need when one is hurting for money.
Didn't he have the VX and motorcycle up for sale? I thought someone found some on line activity about that. I'm sure he was using the internet to help his serch for a job. Janet had just gotten a job too. Maybe she needed it for her work?

[Rooster]

Hi Rooster,

Appreciate you joining us and posting your opinions. It seems like you know Raven and think very highly of him. Which I respect. Why or what is it about Raven that leads you to feel that he is not capable of committing murder?

Thanks,
Moxie
He loved Janet very much! He would NOT murder the mother of his child. Or anyone else. You all think you know him but you don't!

[Rooster]

Again, have any of you that are critizing raven and the families involved about their actions after the murder ever been in a situation like this before? Even if you have I would say you are in no position to judge. Every situation and person is different. I can name a few cases where the a husband, wife, mother, father, etc has come out after the crime has happened and asked for the killers/criminals to be brought to justice. Didn't Scott peterson do this? I know Michele Smith? did, the women who said her kids were kidnapped by a black man (when she actually killed them). There are a lot of cases where this has happened and it turned out that the person speaking out was the one the commited the crime. Frankly if raven went to the media and started blabbing about how innocent he is and doing what some of you are saying I would suspect him more or atleast think he is very incompassionate. Why would you do that? That is the police's job, if they need information from the public or are wanting to dismiss a suspect they the should do it. They should not ask people that have just lost a loved one to do this.

Put yourself in raven's shoes. Now imagine that he is innocent (which he is ATM, remember it is america). If I was raven I would say f__k whatever the public thinks. Most of the public assume what they want anyway. Only .0000001% of the public are involved with this case or have information about it. I would just make sure the police have all the information they need and say screw the rest of you. Its Raven's, the families' involved, and the polices' business and that is it. You don't think that the families involved and raven want justice? Come on now. All they need to do is help the police with whatever information they request. And don't forget they have lost a loved one in a horrible way, which most of us cannot even phatom. Some of you cry and feel bad about this, but it is a billion times worse for the families. Yet you are speculating on stuff that you would do in their situation.

Note this wasn't aimed at everyone on this site just a few.Some of you guys provide a great service to the crime fighting world, I would imagine. Some of the others amaze me, I'm done with this site until anymore information is released.
Thank you Jager. Well said.

[Moxie]

He loved Janet very much! He would NOT murder the mother of his child. Or anyone else. You all think you know him but you don't!
Hi Rooster,

If Raven truly loved Janet very much, why are there so many reports from people who knew both Janet and Raven about Raven having several affairs and being unfaithful to her, to the point where they had separated and he even commented online that he was going through a divorce??

Moxie

[golfmom]

He loved Janet very much! He would NOT murder the mother of his child. Or anyone else. You all think you know him but you don't!

:waitasec: So then did Raven tell you that his laptop was stolen?
Did he indicate if anything else was taken?

[Rooster]

Hi Rooster,

If Raven truly loved Janet very much, why are there so many reports from people who knew both Janet and Raven about Raven having several affairs and being unfaithful to her, to the point where they had separated and he even commented online that he was going through a divorce??

Moxie
They were seperated but, apparently they loved each other enough to stay together. They never actually got a divorce.

I'm not sure but, I think the affairs were durring the seperation.

[Moxie]

They were seperated but, apparently they loved each other enough to stay together. They never actually got a divorce.

I'm not sure but, I think the affairs were durring the seperation.
Hi Rooster,

My understanding, after going through a month's worth of postings and information, was that Raven had affairs throughout the marriage, Janet found out, and that led to the separation. So please, please, help all of us understand how Raven truly loved Janet if he was so chronically unfaithful to her, and his adultery has been documented by people who knew both he and Janet.

Moxie

[PrayersForMaura]

He loved Janet very much! He would NOT murder the mother of his child. Or anyone else. You all think you know him but you don't!
it's hard to really know him when no one who does know him will tell us anything substantial. additionally, all we have to go on are his musings on the net.

I'd love to know the real Raven and it's even better if he is innocent. Perhaps he is a great guy.

I'm most interested though in finding justice for Janet, regardless of whether or not I knew her. I feel the same for other victims of crime across the country and around the world.

I'm here to learn more about Janet and her life and I pray for her family and friends and son who will never know his mom.

That's what I most care about.

[Thinkoflaura]

He loved Janet very much! He would NOT murder the mother of his child. Or anyone else. You all think you know him but you don't!

The best single thing we have are his words and his known actions.
We also have what has been reported about his known criminal activity.
Again, I repeat, Raven is Raven's worst enemy.

We have a statement from the landlord about what dire straits the couple was in financially.
We have a statement reported in the news from Janet's sister. We have a search warrant affadavit and a search inventory list.
We know that he has misrepresented many aspects of his life because of the need to be best, first, and the center of attention.

It is relevant that he was able to ship so much merchandise to different individuals, because his FB shows that the buyers were mostly different people. Raven is not, in my opinion, organized enough to have worked at a job during the week ( while stealing from them at the same time) and be the one who was processing the eBay sales.

I don't know if you sell on eBay but I can tell you that it is VERY easy to become overwhelmed with the orders even when the seller is a very organized person with oodles of time to devote to the boxing and shipping of items. It takes about an hour to wrap, box, address and print a shipping label for 9-10 packages. It would take longer if the items were shipped from the USPS because one has to drive there, stand in line, have items weighed, etc...
Multiply that one hour by the number of sales we KNOW he has from the eBay stats and it's obvious that he was not the only one involved in the embezzlement activity. A person who knowingly participates in fraud and theft is just as guilty as the one who took it from the warehouse.

I have questions about who helped him do the selling and shipping of the soccer gear, because if that person was loyal and organized enough to get the orders out and satisfy almost every single customer, then that person is a person of interest to me in Janet's death.

Once a person commits multiple felonious crimes for someone they care about or are profitting from persoally, they have breached a moral line of sorts. It is not a huge leap , in my opinion, to say that this same person might be the person who murdered Janet for their own purposes or who helped with some aspect of the crimescene out of devotion to Raven.

I know, as I live and breathe, that this man did not handle the eBay transactions alone. In fact, he probably only supplied the merchandise for photos, or used the same photo over and again, with the same copy. It is entirely possible to list in bulk with several programs eBay has and others outside eBay.
It takes a huge amount of organization and time to process the amount of orders which were sold on eBay.

Where is Raven's accomplice in the embezzlement fraud ( the sale of stolen merchandise on eBay) and why are they not being charged? Is Raven protecting someone? I think he is and I would like to know who and WHY.
I think the answer to this is a huge missing piece of the puzzle.
Everything dovetails into something else. Every piece fits, just like the jigsaw puzzles Raven said Janet enjoyed playing.

[Rooster]

The best single thing we have are his words and his known actions.
We also have what has been reported about his known criminal activity.
Again, I repeat, Raven is Raven's worst enemy.

We have a statement from the landlord about what dire straits the couple was in financially.
We have a statement reported in the news from Janet's sister. We have a search warrant affadavit and a search inventory list.
We know that he has misrepresented many aspects of his life because of the need to be best, first, and the center of attention.

It is relevant that he was able to ship so much merchandise to different individuals, because his FB shows that the buyers were mostly different people. Raven is not, in my opinion, organized enough to have worked at a job during the week ( while stealing from them at the same time) and be the one who was processing the eBay sales.

I don't know if you sell on eBay but I can tell you that it is VERY easy to become overwhelmed with the orders even when the seller is a very organized person with oodles of time to devote to the boxing and shipping of items. It takes about an hour to wrap, box, address and print a shipping label for 9-10 packages. It would take longer if the items were shipped from the USPS because one has to drive there, stand in line, have items weighed, etc...
Multiply that one hour by the number of sales we KNOW he has from the eBay stats and it's obvious that he was not the only one involved in the embezzlement activity. A person who knowingly participates in fraud and theft is just as guilty as the one who took it from the warehouse.

I have questions about who helped him do the selling and shipping of the soccer gear, because if that person was loyal and organized enough to get the orders out and satisfy almost every single customer, then that person is a person of interest to me in Janet's death.

Once a person commits multiple felonious crimes for someone they care about or are profitting from persoally, they have breached a moral line of sorts. It is not a huge leap , in my opinion, to say that this same person might be the person who murdered Janet for their own purposes or who helped with some aspect of the crimescene out of devotion to Raven.

I know, as I live and breathe, that this man did not handle the eBay transactions alone. In fact, he probably only supplied the merchandise for photos, or used the same photo over and again, with the same copy. It is entirely possible to list in bulk with several programs eBay has and others outside eBay.
It takes a huge amount of organization and time to process the amount of orders which were sold on eBay.

Where is Raven's accomplice in the embezzlement fraud ( the sale of stolen merchandise on eBay) and why are they not being charged? Is Raven protecting someone? I think he is and I would like to know who and WHY.
I think the answer to this is a huge missing piece of the puzzle.
Everything dovetails into something else. Every piece fits, just like the jigsaw puzzles Raven said Janet enjoyed playing.
I've read all this stuff over and over again for the last month and a half.
He stole from his employer. That dosn't make him a murderer.

[golfmom]

I've read all this stuff over and over again for the last month and a half.
He stole from his employer. That dosn't make him a murderer.

We know and SP lying and having affairs didn't make him a murderer either.

[misterallgood]

He loved Janet very much!
Did he?

From a page on the old version of ravenstree.com titled "The Couple." (http://web.archive.org/web/20010408184401/www.ravenstree.com/the_couple.htm)

Janet and I met on August 17, 1998. It was in the Main Hall of Southern Virginia College where I (Raven) made the move that would change my life forever.

What I saw was a beautiful girl who was obviously not happy to be at this school. As she walked stubbornly in front of her family, I introduced myself to her little brother, welcoming him to the school. After a few laughs her parents said that "she" (pointing to Janet) is the new student. We talked for a little bit, the rest of my friends introduced her to the team, and only two days later we were watching the sun go down together, for the first time...

Well, yeah -- that sounds like love.

From the current version of the website, the page titled "My Life" (http://www.ravenstree.com/mylife.htm):

Janet and I met in unique circumstances. Our journey can be fast forwarded to North Carolina. Here we are pleased to welcome the birth of our first child:

That page was updated shortly before noon on April 25th, 2005. The day before Janet's murder.

My Life sounds like "Janet who?"

If a man truly loves his wife, why does she almost completely disappear from his online representations of himself over the course of 4 years? Where is Janet's Place (http://web.archive.org/web/20010421132101/www.ravenstree.com/janets_place.htm) on the new ravenstree.com?

Being selfish is not a crime. Being self-absorbed and vain are not crimes. If they were, I'd be in prison myself. But sometimes when viewed within a larger context these qualities in certain people start to indicate something much more sinister beneath the surface. Some narcissists are just narcissists. Others are psychopaths.

Raven has neither been accused by law enforcement nor have they said he is not a person of interest. They did make it a point to say the crime was not random.

That means someone made it a point to eliminate Janet from Raven and Kaiden's life.

That's what matters. If a representative from the Durham PD says in a press release or an interview that Raven is not a person of interest in his wife's murder, then I will reconsider what I think happened to her.

But they haven't done that yet.

And I will be very surprised if they ever do.

Mr. A.

[tiffany]

Go Mr. A I completely agree with you! You Rock!:innocent:

[PrayersForMaura]

I've read all this stuff over and over again for the last month and a half.
He stole from his employer. That dosn't make him a murderer.Yeah, I just realized it has been almost a month and a half already since Janet was murdered.
Wow, how time flies.

I do agree that stealing doesn't make him a murderer ... but being a nice person doesn't make a killer innocent either.
I was watching a movie earlier today where a law enforcement official said that the first thing he learned about investigations was that looks can be deceiving and so can someone who seems to be "being nice".

[Thinkoflaura]

IMHO, once a person crosses the line from truth to lies, from being honest to being a habitual thief, something inside their soul erodes.

I am well acquainted with the LDS and other Christian principle that says those actions which are not of God are of Satan. We either act in goodness or we are controlled by evil forces. Our soul does not live in either hibernation or in a vacuum. Raven was supposed to be a Spirit-filled, chosen LDS temple sealed member of the Priesthood, as I understand it. I also know that the Doctrine and Covenant states that a member of the LDS church, especially a member of the Priesthood, will be held to a higher standard than a non-LDS person. I am not stating it as it is published, because my textbooks do not quote, they summarize. I also do not have a D and C with me.

I don't think a God-filled person would or could steal over and over, and lie and lie for months on end. There was a battle for his soul, and Satan won out.

Once Satan enters a person's soul, I was taught that there is a disintegration of that person's moral fiber, and that the door is opened for more evil ways.
Maybe you didn't learn the same lessons I did, or maybe you are unwilling to see how chronic crime shuts our Heavenly Father out and lets Satan in.

I happen to think that a person who is not walking with God, but is following a totally opposite path is putting himself or herself in jeopardy for more sinful things to be done.
"Thou shalt not kill" is as much a part of the 10 Commandments as " Thou shalt not steal" and " Thou shalt not commit adultery".

[ewwwinteresting]

I've read all this stuff over and over again for the last month and a half.
He stole from his employer. That dosn't make him a murderer.
Good point....but what does make someone a murderer of a non random murder? Financial problems? Marriage problems? Afraid of someone testifing against you? Afraid of someone making you look bad? Help me out guys.....

[Timex]

Perhaps there was someone else in Janets life during the seperation? Does "not a random act" HAVE to mean the husband is the one?

[ewwwinteresting]

Perhaps there was someone else in Janets life during the seperation? Does "not a random act" HAVE to mean the husband is the one?Oh no, that's what I was trying to come up with.....reasons.....for husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, family member, anybody!

In your opinion (anybody), what makes someone a murderer of a non random murder?

[Thinkoflaura]

Perhaps there was someone else in Janets life during the seperation? Does "not a random act" HAVE to mean the husband is the one?

Well, Timex, she was pregnant in January. I think that puts everything in a different perspective, regardless of anything else we know about Janet.

Also, I know no one is perfect, but it appears that no one has had a bad word to say about her. She seems to have been just what we have read about her, a loving wife, mother, daughter, sister and a hard-working woman who had deep roots in her spiritual family as well.

She's the kind of person I would have liked to be around, and I wouldn't say that if I had the feeling that the person was cheating or doing something else clandestine and sleazy. ( since no suspect has been named, I would assume that we are talking about clandestine activities with a person she became close to).

I think she reconciled with Raven because she was unexpectedly pregnant with his baby.. otherwise she would have divorced him. I received a message saying that too.. but I had already decided that she would do whatever she thought was in the best interest of her unborn child. I think she truly and deeply loved Raven and wanted to make a little family with him. Perhaps it was her fatal flaw.

[Timex]

Seeing another person while seperated would in no way paint her in a bad light. Why on earth would doing so give anyone reason to "have a bad thing to say about her"?

She could have easily gone to dinner with someone during the time of seperation...or to a movie or any number of things. Seeing does NOT equal sleeping with, at least not in my book.

[ewwwinteresting]

Seeing another person while seperated would in no way paint her in a bad light. Why on earth would doing so give anyone reason to "have a bad thing to say about her"?

She could have easily gone to dinner with someone during the time of seperation...or to a movie or any number of things. Seeing does NOT equal sleeping with, at least not in my book.
Did I miss something here? Who stated Janet was seeing someone while separated? I must have missed that posting!

[PrayersForMaura]

I learned that there's always a rat in separation ;)

[Timex]

Did I miss something here? Who stated Janet was seeing someone while separated? I must have missed that posting!

No one stated it...I asked if it was a possibility.

[Timex]

I learned that there's always a rat in separation ;)

Yeah, I learned that too, but somethings just dont matter much to me. Spelling is one of those things, especially when Im trying to keep up with a dozen threads on a dozen forums.

[PrayersForMaura]

Yeah, I learned that too, but somethings just dont matter much to me. Spelling is one of those things, especially when Im trying to keep up with a dozen threads on a dozen forums.I wasn't typing it specifically to you, no need to get defensive. :)

[golfmom]

Timex, not from what I've gotten to date. I don't know Janet's reasons for separating with Raven, but I do know that she went through all the proper chanels in her church before she made that move and received permission to divorce. I have a hard time seeing a woman who goes to her church first being the kind of woman who would be seeing someone.

[Timex]

Timex, not from what I've gotten to date. I don't know Janet's reasons for separating with Raven, but I do know that she went through all the proper chanels in her church before she made that move and received permission to divorce. I have a hard time seeing a woman who goes to her church first being the kind of woman who would be seeing someone.

I dont think we are using the word "seeing" in the same context. Im not talking dating...Im talking socializing in ANY form.

[Roddick]

I knew those two while they were dating and right after they got married... she always seemed 100% devoted, regardless of whether he deserved the devotion. HTH.

[golfmom]

I dont think we are using the word "seeing" in the same context. Im not talking dating...Im talking socializing in ANY form.

Of course it's all speculation anyway. We have nothing concrete to hang our hat onto. But, I was in a similar situation with my best friend ... she asked our pastor for permission to separate and ultimately divorce. The whole situation was so tramatic for her, that the last thing in the world would be for her to socialize. She was very withdrawn and quiet and would pretty much only stay with her girlfriends.

That's how I perceive that Janet was during that time period ... then she finds out she's pregnant.

[PrayersForMaura]

They were seperated but, apparently they loved each other enough to stay together. They never actually got a divorce.

I'm not sure but, I think the affairs were durring the seperation.
So did Janet see anyone by chance? Besides Raven?

[golfmom]

Keep in mind how painful it was for her, he was seeing a woman from work.

[ewwwinteresting]

So did Janet see anyone by chance? Besides Raven?
Someone like "I can't have her so nobody can have her" type person?

[golfmom]

Someone who knew Janet has requested that I make this information available. I know that we've been asked not to continue with the pm info. but this person is very worried about being identified at this time.

Janet was not seeing someone else. Raven had promised her that he would be faithful when they got back together and she went back with the hope that he was being honest and they could make their marriage work and raise their child together. I think that was her fatal flaw - a hope to have a happy marriage and children.

[ewwwinteresting]

I think that was her fatal flaw - a hope to have a happy marriage and children.
That is just so sad:(

It seems that Janet might have had hope of a happy marriage if 1)she didn't attend that college and 2) if she didn't reconcile with Raven, imo, of course!

[Rooster]

That is just so sad:(

It seems that Janet might have had hope of a happy marriage if 1)she didn't attend that college and 2) if she didn't reconcile with Raven, imo, of course!

:rolleyes: She very well could have been happy. She reconciled and stayed with Raven. She had a beautifull new baby. There was alot to smile about for both of them. Not that they wern't going through hard times. They were tyring to get back on there feet.

I heard that some of the best time's of her life were at that collage and that she was happy there. The only time she didn't want to be there, was when she was there without Raven.

[Jenifred]

I heard that some of the best time's of her life were at that collage and that she was happy there. The only time she didn't want to be there, was when she was there without Raven.
But for a good deal of time, Raven wasn't there.

[Thinkoflaura]

Seeing another person while seperated would in no way paint her in a bad light. Why on earth would doing so give anyone reason to "have a bad thing to say about her"?
She could have easily gone to dinner with someone during the time of seperation...or to a movie or any number of things. Seeing does NOT equal sleeping with, at least not in my book.

I didn't mention anything of a sexual nature, Timex. I stated that I thought her behavior as a pregnant woman in early pregnancy would probably put things in a different light.
I don't know what your personal history with pregnancy is, but most women have morning sickness that lasts all day long. They are extremely fatigued due to hormonal changes and generally want to " nest" and rest. She was also grappling with the situation of her separation from Raven. I doubt that, due to her very shy nature, making friends and influencing people were high priorities to her. Her college friends have said how painfully shy she was. I see signs of shyness on the videos and in their photos.

Looking for motive:

If you are saying that she befriended someone who then killed her, what would the motive be? I know that motive is not necessary to prosecute, but human behavior tells us that there is a motive, regardless of its establishment in a court of law or not.

I could be wrong, but I have said all along that a woman does not have the upper body strength to inflict the 3 known wounds to her body, especially with her height and strength as a soccer player. Women generally have very low upper body strength. I think Janet would have had the advantage in a hand to hand knife weilding situation with a woman.

If you are saying that a man killed her, then again, I ask, what type of interaction would she possibly have had with a friend who would turn around and murder her? I have many friends who are male. All of them are also friends of my spouse, but still, to think that one of them would slash me to death is unfathomable. We pick and choose our friends carefully. I see Janet as being that same type of person. Not Raven though. I think he was superficially charming to everyone, a true friend to no one.

I can't see any part of the crimescene being about money. Raven's embezzlement and firing had to be known to their friends and family.. Janet had just given birth.. but she had to find a new job too, even though she wasn't the thief in the family.

I've tried really hard to come up with a viable scenario and motive of an intruder, either known or stranger, killing her, and it just doesn't fly. Any more than a stranger killing Lori Hacking made sense. Any more than a stranger abduction and murder of Laci Peterson made sense.

I appreciate your outlook. I just don't see it or feel that it happened that way. I think the adult she was closest to in the world killed her due to a rage-with the subject matter unknown to us at this time.

Thanks for letting me clarify that I in no way implied anything about an intimate or sexual relationship either.

[Timex]

No, im not saying I think a "lover" killed her. I honestly dont know who killed her. Raven makes a good POI, but at this point there isnt enough evidence to even warrant an arrest, let alone conviction. When I think about cases like this, I work the opposite way. I try to prove the suspect didnt commit the crime. by doing so, If I cant prove he didnt do it, then chances are good, he did. In otherwords, if I eliminate ALL other possibilites, then I am left with only one possibility. I dont like having "tunnel vision", as it leaves me open to interpreting things in only one light.

[ewwwinteresting]

I dont like having "tunnel vision", as it leaves me open to interpreting things in only one light.
From Raven's site:
http://ravenstree.com/images/hdr_money.jpg
"Its amazing how the choices I've made have been through tunnel vision!"

We all know where "tunnel vision" can lead us!:)

[Thinkoflaura]

No, im not saying I think a "lover" killed her. I honestly dont know who killed her. Raven makes a good POI, but at this point there isnt enough evidence to even warrant an arrest, let alone conviction. When I think about cases like this, I work the opposite way. I try to prove the suspect didnt commit the crime. by doing so, If I cant prove he didnt do it, then chances are good, he did. In otherwords, if I eliminate ALL other possibilites, then I am left with only one possibility. I dont like having "tunnel vision", as it leaves me open to interpreting things in only one light.

I see your point. You are being fair and objective. I've tried to think of a situation in which a stranger would have motivation to commit this murder with a baby in the house left unharmed. Maybe cases like the Blagg case, the Hacking case and the Peterson case have somehow given me the subconscious message that when no motive is evident, look to the residents of the home. Actually, profilers tell us this too, and apparently Raven's actions post crime back up the profilers' statements that the one who killed does not want to be the one who "finds the body" or when possible, who calls 911 to report the crime.

Our poll bears out the fact that the majority of people who have cast a vote think Raven killed her.
I have applied the principles of Occam's Razor as well. I still come back to Raven.

[Timex]

sorry, never been to Ravens site, so Im a bit confused.

[golfmom]

Just me personally, but I am very slow to analyze and form conclusions. I like to ponder every single avenue available for a long time. I've finished my analysis and written my report.

I think Raven killed Janet.

It's just my :twocents: ... and if I'm wrong, I'm wrong and I'll publicly apologize to the board.

[golfmom]

sorry, never been to Ravens site, so Im a bit confused.

www.ravenstree.com

Timex, it is very interesting.

[NCBanker]

Sounds right on to me!

IMHO, once a person crosses the line from truth to lies, from being honest to being a habitual thief, something inside their soul erodes.

I am well acquainted with the LDS and other Christian principle that says those actions which are not of God are of Satan. We either act in goodness or we are controlled by evil forces. Our soul does not live in either hibernation or in a vacuum. Raven was supposed to be a Spirit-filled, chosen LDS temple sealed member of the Priesthood, as I understand it. I also know that the Doctrine and Covenant states that a member of the LDS church, especially a member of the Priesthood, will be held to a higher standard than a non-LDS person. I am not stating it as it is published, because my textbooks do not quote, they summarize. I also do not have a D and C with me.

I don't think a God-filled person would or could steal over and over, and lie and lie for months on end. There was a battle for his soul, and Satan won out.

Once Satan enters a person's soul, I was taught that there is a disintegration of that person's moral fiber, and that the door is opened for more evil ways.
Maybe you didn't learn the same lessons I did, or maybe you are unwilling to see how chronic crime shuts our Heavenly Father out and lets Satan in.

I happen to think that a person who is not walking with God, but is following a totally opposite path is putting himself or herself in jeopardy for more sinful things to be done.
"Thou shalt not kill" is as much a part of the 10 Commandments as " Thou shalt not steal" and " Thou shalt not commit adultery".

[golfmom]

Sounds right on to me!

Sounds right to me too!

That's why the "it was only $9K" comment bothered me so badly ... I don't care if it was 9 pennies. Once you open yourself up to sin and justify it, it won't be long before you are on the slippery slope to you know where!

[NCBanker]

Well even more than that, the fact that he was committing adultery opens him up to all kinds of new temptations from the dark side.



Sounds right to me too!

That's why the "it was only $9K" comment bothered me so badly ... I don't care if it was 9 pennies. Once you open yourself up to sin and justify it, it won't be long before you are on the slippery slope to you know where!

[Jenifred]

Well even more than that, the fact that he was committing adultery opens him up to all kinds of new temptations from the dark side.This is just my opinion, but comparing the pictures of Raven whe he was first married (and those resemble the Raven that I knew), and looking at the pictures of him recently--like the one with him and Kaiden on his lap, somthing has changed in him. Now call me crazy, but I think that his countenance has changed. Same thing happened with Mark Hacking and Scott Peterson. Once decent looking, clean cut men, but their more recent pictures look as if there is just more darkness in them. Like once they start comtemplating a crime like this their looks change. This is just my ramblings--ignore them if you'd like.

BTW, NCBanker--did you see Star Wars this weekend? :D Just wondering with your talk of the dark side.

[Thinkoflaura]

This is just my opinion, but comparing the pictures of Raven whe he was first married (and those resemble the Raven that I knew), and looking at the pictures of him recently--like the one with him and Kaiden on his lap, somthing has changed in him. Now call me crazy, but I think that his countenance has changed. Same thing happened with Mark Hacking and Scott Peterson. Once decent looking, clean cut men, but their more recent pictures look as if there is just more darkness in them. Like once they start comtemplating a crime like this their looks change. This is just my ramblings--ignore them if you'd like.

That's the sense I have as well. It's like he even started mocking the baby in the photos. Did you notice that? Look really carefully at both faces, especially the " We want our mommy" photo and the one where he is holding Kaiden outside on the front porch and the commentary is about a hike, then a soccer game. If the baby had a wide eyed, open mouthed expression, then Raven mimicked it. If Kaiden was crying, Raven had his face all mushed up into a baby cry face.
I didn't see kindness and fatherly love in those photos, I saw a cruel playacting.. but I don't know why.

[Thinkoflaura]

Well even more than that, the fact that he was committing adultery opens him up to all kinds of new temptations from the dark side.

That's what I was taught and what I believe to be true in my heart as well, NC Banker. Thank you for your understanding of what I was trying to say. :)

[tiffany]

Janet loved being at svu. She was on a great soccer team, surrounded with many friends and teammates and people of her faith. She loved being at the University. She was happy. I know because I knew her...I also attended SVU. She had a hard time yes because Raven was gone, but any woman would have a hard time being in the first few years of married life with their husband gone all the time. I don't want to believe that Raven would commit this crime and either would Janets other friends...but...it seems with all people have gathered that he probably did. It is sad...all I want is for the truth to be found out and for Janet to be finally given justice and for her not to be ever forgotten.

[Jenifred]

She had a hard time yes because Raven was gone, but any woman would have a hard time being in the first few years of married life with their husband gone all the time.
How long were they apart for? Were they apart the whole time after she enrolled in school again?

[Hummingbird]

The photo of Raven and Kaiden at the desk on ravenstree.com, posted on 4/25/04 (I think), show him sitting in front of a desktop computer. You can see the keyboard separate from the monitor.

[newkid]

That's the sense I have as well. It's like he even started mocking the baby in the photos. Did you notice that? Look really carefully at both faces, especially the " We want our mommy" photo and the one where he is holding Kaiden outside on the front porch and the commentary is about a hike, then a soccer game. If the baby had a wide eyed, open mouthed expression, then Raven mimicked it. If Kaiden was crying, Raven had his face all mushed up into a baby cry face.
I didn't see kindness and fatherly love in those photos, I saw a cruel playacting.. but I don't know why.
To me, Raven looks immature in the photos where he seems to be imitating the baby. I'm embarrassed for him and want to run out of the room so I don't have to see them.:eek:

[NCBanker]

No - it just seemed like a dramatic thing to say.:crazy:

This is just my opinion, but comparing the pictures of Raven whe he was first married (and those resemble the Raven that I knew), and looking at the pictures of him recently--like the one with him and Kaiden on his lap, somthing has changed in him. Now call me crazy, but I think that his countenance has changed. Same thing happened with Mark Hacking and Scott Peterson. Once decent looking, clean cut men, but their more recent pictures look as if there is just more darkness in them. Like once they start comtemplating a crime like this their looks change. This is just my ramblings--ignore them if you'd like.

BTW, NCBanker--did you see Star Wars this weekend? :D Just wondering with your talk of the dark side.

[JerseyGirl]

The photo of Raven and Kaiden at the desk on ravenstree.com, posted on 4/25/04 (I think), show him sitting in front of a desktop computer. You can see the keyboard separate from the monitor.I thought I remembered seeing a desktop but wasn't sure. Thanks, Hummingbird. :)

And welcome, welcome, welcome!!! I'm always happy to "see a new face". :)

[Rooster]

This is just my opinion, but comparing the pictures of Raven whe he was first married (and those resemble the Raven that I knew), and looking at the pictures of him recently--like the one with him and Kaiden on his lap, somthing has changed in him. Now call me crazy, but I think that his countenance has changed. Same thing happened with Mark Hacking and Scott Peterson. Once decent looking, clean cut men, but their more recent pictures look as if there is just more darkness in them. Like once they start comtemplating a crime like this their looks change. This is just my ramblings--ignore them if you'd like.

BTW, NCBanker--did you see Star Wars this weekend? :D Just wondering with your talk of the dark side.
Okay.....CRAZY!

[golfmom]

I'm starting to think that we all are ... look what time it is, and we're here posting!!! :)

This is my time ... LOL
Everyone's sleeping, I have my coffee and here I am!

JG, I've been thinking about the donation to Janet's memory in UT, do you think it had to be listed that way because ...

1. If it was in Kaiden's name Raven would be accountable to spend the money for Kaiden's benefit?

2. If it's in Janet's name, Raven the surviving spouse has discretion to spend it however he wishes?

[JerseyGirl]

JG, I've been thinking about the donation to Janet's memory in UT, do you think it had to be listed that way because ...

1. If it was in Kaiden's name Raven would be accountable to spend the money for Kaiden's benefit?

2. If it's in Janet's name, Raven the surviving spouse has discretion to spend it however he wishes?I'm actually very concerned about that fund. I've only personally experienced one trust fund situation that was in a child's name. The parents were divorced when the mother died. The father got custody of the child, along with quite a large insurance pay-out that was put into trust for the child. Even with the substantial amount that was in the trust fund, the father had to go to court to ask to use enough of the money to buy a house for him & his child to live in. He had been living in a small condo alone, and wanted a place for his little one to play, and begin to rebuild her life. It was quite a task but was eventually successful.

So your statement seems to me to be correct, (unless that varies from place to place). I would think that the money would be much harder to spend, (if not impossible), if it were in Kaiden's name.

Again, does anyone know who put together the funeral or this trust fund in Utah?

[golfmom]

I'm actually very concerned about that fund. I've only personally experienced one trust fund situation that was in a child's name. The parents were divorced when the mother died. The father got custody of the child, along with quite a large insurance pay-out that was put into trust for the child. Even with the substantial amount that was in the trust fund, the father had to go to court to ask to use enough of the money to buy a house for him & his child to live in. He had been living in a small condo alone, and wanted a place for his little one to play, and begin to rebuild her life. It was quite a task but was eventually successful.

So your statement seems to me to be correct, (unless that varies from place to place). I would think that the money would be much harder to spend, (if not impossible), if it were in Kaiden's name.

Again, does anyone know who put together the funeral or this trust fund in Utah?

Again I have no direct or indirect knowledge and I am just speculating since I've never had any experience with a trust fund. But it seems that Janet's family took care of her funeral. They don't appear to be asking for ANY money, but are asking those who are interested in donating in Janet's memory to a scholarship established in her name.

The Utah Trust Fund, logically seems to have been established through Raven's step-father. What the plans are for that money is a mystery. I honestly don't think it's appropriate for there to be a fund under these circumstances unless both parents died or were substantially disabled.

JMHO

[JerseyGirl]

The Utah Trust Fund, logically seems to have been established through Raven's step-father. What the plans are for that money is a mystery. I honestly don't think it's appropriate for there to be a fund under these circumstances unless both parents died or were substantially disabled.I'm not sure how I feel about that. I want Kaiden to be okay, and if that means collecting some money so that Raven can be with Kaiden while they try to get over their loss then I think that I'm okay with that. But I can definitely see the other side of that, too. Either way, the trust fund in Utah established in Janet's name certainly has my curiosity up. It could just be poor judgement but something definitely seems odd about that to me.

[golfmom]

I'm not sure how I feel about that. I want Kaiden to be okay, and if that means collecting some money so that Raven can be with Kaiden while they try to get over their loss then I think that I'm okay with that. But I can definitely see the other side of that, too. Either way, the trust fund in Utah established in Janet's name certainly has my curiosity up. It could just be poor judgement but something definitely seems odd about that to me.

Again, it just my :twocents:
But that's what family is for, and both sides have huge families.

[Jenifred]

I didn't even realize that people gave money to family members of the deceased until a close friend died and everyone started sending money to her parents. Setting up the memorial fund at the Utah bank was like--okay, we know you'll be sending money, just sent it here. And there was no indication as to where the money is going after depositing it at the bank. With the scholarship fund, at least you know where it's going and that it will be used at her alma mater. And why choose a bank in Utah (I know that is where some of Raven's family is)? But Raven was located in NC. Do you think that they did this so that if Raven's debt to Eurosport needed to be repaid, that they couldn't touch this money like they could if it were at Raven's bank and set up with Raven's name?

[golfmom]

And why choose a bank in Utah (I know that is where some of Raven's family is)? But Raven was located in NC. Do you think that they did this so that if Raven's debt to Eurosport needed to be repaid, that they couldn't touch this money like they could if it were at Raven's bank and set up with Raven's name?

My gut is telling me that it's too hot for Raven on the east coast and he's looking to pack his bags and move west.

Of course there's that little problem of embezzling that needs to be resolved first.

[kato]

Again, have any of you that are critizing raven and the families involved about their actions after the murder ever been in a situation like this before? Even if you have I would say you are in no position to judge. Every situation and person is different. I can name a few cases where the a husband, wife, mother, father, etc has come out after the crime has happened and asked for the killers/criminals to be brought to justice. Didn't Scott peterson do this? I know Michele Smith? did, the women who said her kids were kidnapped by a black man (when she actually killed them). There are a lot of cases where this has happened and it turned out that the person speaking out was the one the commited the crime. Frankly if raven went to the media and started blabbing about how innocent he is and doing what some of you are saying I would suspect him more or atleast think he is very incompassionate. Why would you do that? That is the police's job, if they need information from the public or are wanting to dismiss a suspect they the should do it. They should not ask people that have just lost a loved one to do this.

Put yourself in raven's shoes. Now imagine that he is innocent (which he is ATM, remember it is america). If I was raven I would say f__k whatever the public thinks. Most of the public assume what they want anyway. Only .0000001% of the public are involved with this case or have information about it. I would just make sure the police have all the information they need and say screw the rest of you. Its Raven's, the families' involved, and the polices' business and that is it. You don't think that the families involved and raven want justice? Come on now. All they need to do is help the police with whatever information they request. And don't forget they have lost a loved one in a horrible way, which most of us cannot even phatom. Some of you cry and feel bad about this, but it is a billion times worse for the families. Yet you are speculating on stuff that you would do in their situation.

Note this wasn't aimed at everyone on this site just a few.Some of you guys provide a great service to the crime fighting world, I would imagine. Some of the others amaze me, I'm done with this site until anymore information is released.

That would be Susan Smith. Feel free to come back anytime.

[Rooster]

Why did all my post's from last night get deleteted?

[golfmom]

Why did all my post's from last night get deleteted?

Rooster, I didn't get a chance to see those posts, but if they violated TOS, Timex might have taken them down. You might want to pm her and ask.

[chicoliving]

Why did all my post's from last night get deleteted?
What thread? This one?

[Timex]

I have not deleted any of Roosters posts...am trying to find an answer now. Are you sure you posted them on this thread Rooster?

[Rooster]

No. They were in Genral Disscusions and Big boy toys.

[Rooster]

Rooster, I didn't get a chance to see those posts, but if they violated TOS, Timex might have taken them down. You might want to pm her and ask.
I'm sure I didn't violate any TOS's. I just added to the stuff you posted about Raven's VX. (Your post was also deleted...I'm sure you noticed.)

[golfmom]

I'm sure I didn't violate any TOS's. I just added to the stuff you posted about Raven's VX. (Your post was also deleted...I'm sure you noticed.)

No, it's still there. Do you need a link?
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23862&page=2
Post #47

[Timex]

Rooster, Ive checked and doubled checked. Your posts have not been deleted. There are only 3 or 4 people that can delete on this forum.

[Rooster]

Not that one... I belive this is your replacment post for the original post that someone deleted.

You were trying to document how you had found information on Ra