Soccer Game ... No really, "the" Soccer Game

[PrayersForMaura]

If anyone has info on the soccer game Raven supposedly played in on the night Janet was murdered (April 26, 2005), please post here.

[golfmom]

Or ANY soccer related information that they wish to share . . .

[Jenifred]

I was told in a pm that this person thought that Raven played with a spanish league. However the only one that was listed on the now defunct ncsoccer page that had a website and pictures turned up with no Raven. On the internet site, it said they had meetings on Wednesday nights. I don't know what they meant by meetings, wether it was a game or an actual meeting. But wasn't Janet killed on a Tuesday?

I remember a few of the web sites for various leagues in the area has also not been updated for awhile.

GM--how do you get to a cached version? I was having problems doing that too.

[golfmom]

I was told in a pm that this person thought that Raven played with a spanish league. However the only one that was listed on the now defunct ncsoccer page that had a website and pictures turned up with no Raven. On the internet site, it said they had meetings on Wednesday nights. I don't know what they meant by meetings, wether it was a game or an actual meeting. But wasn't Janet killed on a Tuesday?

I remember a few of the web sites for various leagues in the area has also not been updated for awhile.

GM--how do you get to a cached version? I was having problems doing that too.

When you do a google search, say of the term *ncsoccer* instead of clicking directly on the link, look down a line or so and you'll see a blue link like this Cached click on that link to see the cached version of the website.

[PrayersForMaura]

Hi there... I received a pm from a credible source that Raven played in a pickup game the night Janet was murdered.
I did not receive times or league information or anything more.

[Jenifred]

When you do a google search, say of the term *ncsoccer* instead of clicking directly on the link, look down a line or so and you'll see a blue link like this Cached click on that link to see the cached version of the website.
I got to it, but did you see that there was a place called "intent to play"? I couldn't get that to open up. Just wondering if we could find Raven's name there.

Is it a possibility that this site is offline right now while they update it? Because they list the president as someone else other than Raven's friend. Or was Raven's friend a local president?

[LvsAMystry]

I got to it, but did you see that there was a place called "intent to play"? I couldn't get that to open up. Just wondering if we could find Raven's name there.

Is it a possibility that this site is offline right now while they update it? Because they list the president as someone else other than Raven's friend. Or was Raven's friend a local president?

ncsoccer.org is the main site for all of north carolina youth soccer. on that site there was a link to an org call ncasa or north carolina adult soccer association. it is ncasa that his friend is president of.

[LvsAMystry]

My original post in discussion #3 added here as its part of this topic.

Great info on the soccer equipment, I thought the issue had been stolen money so it's interesting to learn it was actually merchandise. I bet Golfmom is right that he sold this stuff on ebay. Too bad we can't get a history.

I've been trying to track down the actual soccer game -- I believe, and this is without tracking back to look, that MissYouJanet said he left the house about 7:30 PM and returned about 10:30 PM. If that's the case, I'm going to assume a playing time of one hour, another hour or so to account for warmup, possible late start, chatting, change afterwood, which leaves the last hour for r/t of 30 mins each way. Within those parameters, I tried to look for a league that had a game that fit the timeframe.

I first found the North Carolina Adult Soccer Assn, of which his friend, Daruis Ejlali, is President. NCASA (http://www,ncsoccer.org/ncasa)

From there, I looked at the links of clubs/leagues that were in the geographic area that made sense timewise. You can view this info on the "Where to Play" link at top of homepage. Once looking at the different areas and deciding which made sense geographically, I then looked at each club/league to see whether any played the night of the murder. The only one I found is TASL (http://www.triangleadultsoccer.org) . If you go to schedule, you will see the Coed Section C plays on Tuesday nights. There were two games (so 4 teams) that had a game at 8:30 PM on that night, which fits. I wish I could confirm one way or the other, but this is the best I could come up with.

[Thinkoflaura]

When you do a google search, say of the term *ncsoccer* instead of clicking directly on the link, look down a line or so and you'll see a blue link like this Cached click on that link to see the cached version of the website.

I wonder if their website was hacked... We know someone with the means to do so, LOL.

[PrayersForMaura]

from my source:

"apparently with these pick up games, when you arrive you sign in with your first name only."

IF LE is having a hard time locating ppl to verify that he was there, this could be a case for why!

[Timex]

Ok, we have a problem here. All the info being swapped via pm, then posted as fact here on the forums really isnt fair to other members, as they have no way of questioning the person who gave the info. If pm's are being sent, then obviously the sender is a member...they need to post the info themselves, not play "tag" via pm.

[PrayersForMaura]

Ok, we have a problem here. All the info being swapped via pm, then posted as fact here on the forums really isnt fair to other members, as they have no way of questioning the person who gave the info. If pm's are being sent, then obviously the sender is a member...they need to post the info themselves, not play "tag" via pm.does this also apply to posters who post info they supposedly have from LE who aren't posting here? One poster has posted that his/her source in LE cleared Raven as a suspect and we have no way to verify it... this is causing quite the stir too and is more serious than an innocent posting of info about a soccer game. Just my opinion here, not trying to stir trouble :innocent:

[JerseyGirl]

Hi there... I received a pm from a credible source that Raven played in a pickup game the night Janet was murdered.
I did not receive times or league information or anything more.I guess I can understand why some people are apprehensive about posting but I'd really like to know - if they know for sure that he was playing, do they know what he was wearing? What time the game started? What time he arrived? What time it ended? What time he left? If there's half-time? Whether or not he was there during half-time? Where the game was - how far from Raven's home?

Please ... lurkers, pm'ers ... join us.

[Timex]

does this also apply to posters who post info they supposedly have from LE who aren't posting here? One poster has posted that his/her source in LE cleared Raven as a suspect and we have no way to verify it... this is causing quite the stir too and is more serious than an innocent posting of info about a soccer game. Just my opinion here, not trying to stir trouble :innocent:


Quoting law enforcement is quite different than claiming to be a family member. Members are free to ask for links to news articles, or free to contact LE to verify what they have or have not said.

We are not going to have a forum where anyone with an opposing view is labled as being Raven, or Ravens family etc.

Not everyone is ready to say without a doubt Raven committed this crime. To date, I have not read or heard anything from law enforcement that leads me to feel they are anywhere near naming Raven as a suspect in this crime.

You are, of course, free to speculate on your theories of Ravens guilt, but you are NOT free to condem those that dont share your opinion.

[golfmom]

You are, of course, free to speculate on your theories of Ravens guilt, but you are NOT free to condem those that dont share your opinion.

And that is the heart of WS! Just like in life, it is not what is said to you, but how you react to it. Slamming another poster or treating them with disrespect just because you don't like what they post is no different than punching someone in the face if you don't like what they say. It would be totally unacceptable.

[PrayersForMaura]

And that is the heart of WS! Just like in life, it is not what is said to you, but how you react to it. Slamming another poster or treating them with disrespect just because you don't like what they post is no different than punching someone in the face if you don't like what they say. It would be totally unacceptable.Boy, I must be dense but I haven't see that behavior in this particular forum for Janet. Have seen it elsewhere though.
No one that I have seen has slammed anyone. If anything, a pro-Raven poster has made some remarks to another poster about being "narrow-minded" which is the only real personal attack I have seen on this forum.
Everyone else seems to be just asking questions.
Maybe i missed something ...

anyway, this is a thread about the soccer game info, and i'm sad that this has been posted under this particular thread. We have posts on all the other threads in this forum about info posted from PMs... I would've liked to keep this conversation under general discussion and keep the soccer thread about soccer. That's why I started this thread.
Can we move these posts, if possible, to a general discussion thread or a thread of its own? I'm afraid these semi-negative posts may keep someone from posting some real soccer info.

thanks

[Thinkoflaura]

Ok, we have a problem here. All the info being swapped via pm, then posted as fact here on the forums really isnt fair to other members, as they have no way of questioning the person who gave the info. If pm's are being sent, then obviously the sender is a member...they need to post the info themselves, not play "tag" via pm.

Timex,
THANK YOU!
It's very frustrating to me to read posts which say " I received info via PM which stated blah blah thus and so".

WHY can't the person who is registered and sent the PM state their own version of the truth on the board instead of being in stealth mode?

I would like to make this statement, as it applies to integrity of knowledge and information in this murder case:
I trust the following frequent case posters: Misterallgood, who brought the case to WS, Golfmom, PrayersForMaura and JerseyGirl, LaurieJ and the site moderators, whom I believe are Timex, Chicoliving, and possibly Tybe?
Oh, and I also trust the established members who are just now wading through the info and speculation on this case and who will hopefully be posting soon. They are proven to be posters of integrity with a desire for the truth.

I know that some of you are getting many PMs from people who will not post, but want you to do it for them. I did too until I stopped replying to the hush hush PMs and also stopped posting their innuendos for them. .

The truth does NOT live in darkness. Look at the current political news and the furor over who Woodward and Bernstein's " deep throat" contact is/ was.
The man is 91 years old, but because he hid in the shadows, people have been more interested in who he was than what he had to say and what he knew and knows. This is not meant as a condemnation or an approval of any political party, just stating the facts. Felts is news, 30 years after the " deep throat" undercover work was done.

What needs to be said here needs to have some factual basis behind it, or said to be a hunch or an intuitive type thought. This " He said, she said" is causing a lot of questions because it is NOT the norm regarding a murder where there is no press and little interest outside our small circle.

I will not be trusting anything else said as a " he said, she said but I can't tell you anything else OR back it up because it was said to me in confidence .

To the best of my knowledge, no forum discussion has ever relied upon the whispers in the background to give info, unless it was a source close to LE, and even then, the info is suspect because it has to be ANONYMOUS.

If I find something relevant to the case, or if I put a couple of ideas together and come up with something we haven't discussed, then I have the courage to stand and tell it.
Janet deserves that much.

Those of you who are encouraging PM interaction may be , in fact, DISCOURAGING free discussion of information which may or may not be true.
Like I said, truth lives in the light, not in the shadows of a hush hush kind of communication with new members who refuse to post.

New members, those of us who do post are no different from you. We are not better than you, we are not more articulate than you, we are not immune from criticism more than you, nothing is different.
My message to you is that I think you should have the strength to post what you want to be known right here on this forum.
We have no way of knowing who " DaFfy dUcK" or " DaddY WarBucks", for example, are.
Make up a screen name and say what you have to say!!! Then the free flow of conversation can progress with you. .

Thanks again, Timex. I have been very frustrated by the clandestine elements of this particular crime discussion.

[LvsAMystry]

Thanks again, Timex. I have been very frustrated by the clandestine elements of this particular crime discussion.

Ditto. I don't think the motive for encouraging the PM activity is selfish in any way, but I do think it disrupts the purpose and process of what the site is about.

FWIW, I've been around enough message board sites, including being a Mod at one, that I know the PM issue transcends all subject matter and causes problems for differing reasons at each one. People just don't like to feel out of the loop, whatever the reason,and it creates tensions.

[PrayersForMaura]

Since the previous thread I've started has gotten off topic, I decided to leave what's there there and try to start again.

If anyone has any information about the soccer game that Raven may or may not have played in on the night Janet was murdered or any information about any leagues he or Janet played in in 2005, please post it here.

If you played soccer with Raven or Janet, please also post here. I would love to hear from you on this thread.

[golfmom]

Since the previous thread I've started has gotten off topic, I decided to leave what's there there and try to start again.

If anyone has any information about the soccer game that Raven may or may not have played in on the night Janet was murdered or any information about any leagues he or Janet played in in 2005, please post it here.

If you played soccer with Raven or Janet, please also post here. I would love to hear from you on this thread.

Poor PFM ... she keeps us so organized, it would be madness and chaos here without her!
:blowkiss:

[PrayersForMaura]

Poor PFM ... she keeps us so organized, it would be madness and chaos here without her!
:blowkiss:
I give up ...

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: I give up ...
Ok sleuthers......this is only for soccer game information!!!!!!

[golfmom]

:laugh:
Ok sleuthers......this is only for soccer game information!!!!!!

Ok, I know I'll be offending a gadzillion people who are lurking here but here I go anyway ...

I have a high school daughter. Do ya'll know what they call soccer players?

Field Fairies

I kid you not. Seriously I feel like I have a severe case of hoof in mouth, but I'm just reporting the news not making it up.

[golfmom]

La Liga de Raleigh
Jesus Duarte

[JerseyGirl]

La Liga de Raleigh
Jesus DuarteWhat is this, golfmom?

[newkid]

La Liga de Raleigh
I think this is a soccer league, is that right? Unfortunately I took French instead of Spanish in school :doh: . Who is Jesus Duarte though?

[golfmom]

What is this, golfmom?

Unfortunately, I don't know. There is a link between this and the embezzlement charges. So, I thought maybe there's a link between the soccer team and Raven as well.

[ewwwinteresting]

La Liga de Raleigh
Jesus Duarte
Ok, what can we search here....feels like we need to sleuth this?

[ewwwinteresting]

You know, I'm noticing very few posts here about the soccer game.....maybe there wasn't one!!!!!!!!!

[Jenifred]

I found this on the TASL web site. It's a list of pick up games in the area. There are two that are on Tuesday nights, but they start at 5pm and 6:30pm. And I can't find their address, or I would have found out how far they are away from the Abaroa residence (in NC that is).

http://triangleadultsoccer.org/ find the link on the left that says Pick up Soccer

[golfmom]

Ok, what can we search here....feels like we need to sleuth this?

I was backed up on my ability to follow up on leads and knew if I tossed it out here some super sluethers would run with it.
:angel:

[ewwwinteresting]

I found this on the TASL web site. It's a list of pick up games in the area. There are two that are on Tuesday nights, but they start at 5pm and 6:30pm. And I can't find their address, or I would have found out how far they are away from the Abaroa residence (in NC that is).

http://triangleadultsoccer.org/ find the link on the left that says Pick up Soccer
Hey soccer players, how long does an adult pickup soccer game last?

[Jenifred]

http://www.laligaraleigh.com/index.html

The english version of their site. There are also pictures, as I said before, that I've looked at and no Raven(but could that have been in his black hair day/s?). I even looked at their shoes and no fancy-schmancy silver or gold ones, but who knows how old those pictures are.

[ewwwinteresting]

Unfortunately, I don't know. There is a link between this and the embezzlement charges. So, I thought maybe there's a link between the soccer team and Raven as well.
Like one of these teams were outfitted with free Eurosport equipment??? :)

[golfmom]

Like one of these teams were outfitted with free Eurosport equipment??? :)

uhhhh I can't actually say if they really got that free Eurosport equipment because at the link no one had on shiney soccer shoes!

But that doesn't mean that they weren't ordered for them!

[SouthEastSleuth]

If you look closer at the link, it talks about the organization donating soccer gear to some league in Africa, and that Eurosport arranged and paid for the shipping. When I first saw the Eurosport name there, I grasped at the same thing..then read further....

[lauriej]

I found this on the TASL web site. It's a list of pick up games in the area. There are two that are on Tuesday nights, but they start at 5pm and 6:30pm. And I can't find their address, or I would have found out how far they are away from the Abaroa residence (in NC that is).

http://triangleadultsoccer.org/ find the link on the left that says Pick up Soccer
...the 5 p.m. game is played at NCSU, Raleigh NC

...the 6:30 game is at wooten weadows, 2700 E Millbrook Rd ,also Raleigh NC

.......i did a mapquest from ferrand dr. Durham, and it's 24.54 miles to wooten meadows Raleigh.

[golfmom]

If you look closer at the link, it talks about the organization donating soccer gear to some league in Africa, and that Eurosport arranged and paid for the shipping. When I first saw the Eurosport name there, I grasped at the same thing..then read further....

But did the league actually pay for everything they received?
Or received everything what was ordered in their names?

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:z7g4wbebI1IJ:www.caslnc.com/the%2520goal/Sept2004GOAL/Sept04OnlineGoal.htm+%22La+Liga+de+Raleigh%22+Euro sport&hl=en

CASL-Nairobi players are seen here sporting some of the gear donated by CASL in North Carolina.

CASL-Nairobi Appreciates Donated Gear
Dear CASL:
CASL-Nairobi is extremely excited to receive your kind donation. Also, thanks to Eurosport for taking the responsibility of shipping the gear.
................

Editor’s Note: CASL recently sent 12 large boxes of soccer gear to our “sister club,” CASL-Nairobi in Kenya. The boxes were filled with shin guards, cleats, uniforms, goalkeeper jerseys, socks, goal nets, coaching books, goalkeeper gloves, training t-shirts, and soccer balls. Eurosport generously paid for the shipping of these items as part of its global effort to encourage youth soccer programs in impoverished areas. CASL and CASL-Nairobi are separate youth soccer organizations that from time to time work cooperatively on special projects to enhance character, family, community and love of the game.

[PrayersForMaura]

oh my goodness, you mean there are really posts about possible soccer games on this thread!!! :doh:

:blowkiss: :dance:

Good sleuthing, as usual, gang!

[ewwwinteresting]

oh my goodness, you mean there are really posts about possible soccer games on this thread!!! :doh:

:blowkiss: :dance:

Good sleuthing, as usual, gang!
You eventually get us all to come around PFM! :)

[munch]

Eurosport along with US Soccer Federation sponsor a program called Passback where anyone can send their used soccer gear to Eurosport and then Eurosport will find a home for it somewhere in the world.

CASL, standing for Capital Area Soccer League, is a partner of Eurosport and donates their old uniforms to a club in Africa, which Eurosport ships to them. If you guys want to see an amazing program, you can learn more at http://www.passback.com/

But did the league actually pay for everything they received?
Or received everything what was ordered in their names?

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:z7g4wbebI1IJ:www.caslnc.com/the%2520goal/Sept2004GOAL/Sept04OnlineGoal.htm+%22La+Liga+de+Raleigh%22+Euro sport&hl=en

CASL-Nairobi players are seen here sporting some of the gear donated by CASL in North Carolina.

CASL-Nairobi Appreciates Donated Gear
Dear CASL:
CASL-Nairobi is extremely excited to receive your kind donation. Also, thanks to Eurosport for taking the responsibility of shipping the gear.
................

Editor’s Note: CASL recently sent 12 large boxes of soccer gear to our “sister club,” CASL-Nairobi in Kenya. The boxes were filled with shin guards, cleats, uniforms, goalkeeper jerseys, socks, goal nets, coaching books, goalkeeper gloves, training t-shirts, and soccer balls. Eurosport generously paid for the shipping of these items as part of its global effort to encourage youth soccer programs in impoverished areas. CASL and CASL-Nairobi are separate youth soccer organizations that from time to time work cooperatively on special projects to enhance character, family, community and love of the game.

[golfmom]

Eurosport along with US Soccer Federation sponsor a program called Passback where anyone can send their used soccer gear to Eurosport and then Eurosport will find a home for it somewhere in the world.

CASL, standing for Capital Area Soccer League, is a partner of Eurosport and donates their old uniforms to a club in Africa, which Eurosport ships to them. If you guys want to see an amazing program, you can learn more at http://www.passback.com/

That does sound like a great program. I've been involved in programs recycling golf equipment and reshafting them for kids. So it sounds like the league purchased new equipment and passed on their old equipment to a worth cause.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Eurosport along with US Soccer Federation sponsor a program called Passback where anyone can send their used soccer gear to Eurosport and then Eurosport will find a home for it somewhere in the world.

CASL, standing for Capital Area Soccer League, is a partner of Eurosport and donates their old uniforms to a club in Africa, which Eurosport ships to them. If you guys want to see an amazing program, you can learn more at http://www.passback.com/
Keep going! Keep going! You're addind lots of clarity to many of the nitty gritty things we've questioned for days! And, thanks!

Sounds like a truly amazing program actually!

[golfmom]

Keep going! Keep going! You're addind lots of clarity to many of the nitty gritty things we've questioned for days! And, thanks!

Sounds like a truly amazing program actually!

You can't tell that we're starved for new news around here can you?

[golfmom]

Munch, do you happen to know the names of leagues that Raven might have played with?

[munch]

Munch, do you happen to know the names of leagues that Raven might have played with?

As of last fall, I don't have "confirmed" leagues that he played in. Although I know he went to Charlotte to play there some and I believe he played in a Chapel Hill or Raleigh league, which are in Orange and Wake county, respectively. I know that someone checked into the assault charge and found nothing in Durham county. I think that's because it didn't happen in the Durham league.

[golfmom]

As of last fall, I don't have "confirmed" leagues that he played in. Although I know he went to Charlotte to play there some and I believe he played in a Chapel Hill or Raleigh league, which are in Orange and Wake county, respectively. I know that someone checked into the assault charge and found nothing in Durham county. I think that's because it didn't happen in the Durham league.

You wouldn't happen to know where that happened would you?

[munch]

You wouldn't happen to know where that happened would you?

I don't know where exactly, the assault charge was filed, or even if the charge was dropped, etc...I believe it was in the "triange" area, which would be Raleigh, Durham, or Chapel Hill. Other than that, your guess is as good as mine, there has to be a record of it somewhere if it exists...

[ewwwinteresting]

I don't know where exactly, the assault charge was filed, or even if the charge was dropped, etc...I believe it was in the "triange" area, which would be Raleigh, Durham, or Chapel Hill. Other than that, your guess is as good as mine, there has to be a record of it somewhere if it exists...
Welcome Munch and thanks for all the information. Did you hear any details about what game Raven was playing on April 26?

[SouthEastSleuth]

Ok, so I said I was digging around in our old "stuff." And something occurs to me (that I'm sure you guys thought about weeks ago, but bear with me..)..

This soccer game.

The ONLY reference to this soccer game that I can find is in an initial news story on WTVD (which is the local ABC affiliate, based in Durham). They did reference it again, later, in a follow-up story. Based on all the media links I just went through and read, not one other media outlet reported the soccer game info.

Further, WTVD reported the following line in that initial story:

"Family members tell Eyewitness News that her husband, Raven, went to a soccer game and found his wife's body when he got home."

That's it, that's all we have. That according to WTVD, FAMILY MEMBERS (Raven's or Janet's, we have no idea) reported that Raven went to a soccer game.

Never has there been a quote from ANYONE in LE regarding Raven's alibi for that night. Never.

I've ALWAYS thought it odd that not one single person has ever come forth, at least here, or in media, to verify the soccer "alibi." It would seem like such a ridiculously easy "out" as far as forcing attention away from Raven as a suspect. Now, that said, who knows, perhaps 25 different people have vouched for Raven's presence at a soccer game that night. Who knows. And, if that's indeed the case, why such silence about it??

I know how media outlets love to get some scoop. But I also thought it odd that not one other media outlet reported that information (that I can find anyway...correct me if I'm wrong).

Makes you wonder - did Raven actually go to a soccer game that night?

I recall someone posting something about a pickup game. I sure would like to have some more info on that... but, wouldn't we all!

Now, all of that said. If Raven did indeed play soccer that night, and someone has verifiable proof of this.... then I say, BRING IT ON!








http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/042805_NW_abaroa.html

[golfmom]

:doh: I've said a number of times how strange I found it that no one has ever come forward to say that they've played soccer with Raven. Not even talking about as an alibi, but as a person on his team or an opponent.

I remember originally thinking that the soccer game alibi was UNVERIFIED, but quite frankly it passed over into VERIFIED information in my brain quite a long time ago.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[Jenifred]

SES & GM--I remember talking about the whole "family members" quote. And I wonder, GM, if it slipped into your VALIDATED file because NCBanker (I think, correct me if I'm wrong) said that he had information from his cousin verifying it.

So, I think that maybe we need to put it into the UNVALIDATED pile (isn't that getting full yet?) because there's been no word from LE about it or any credible post-er here saying that he was actually playing a game.

Here's another theory--maybe no one remembers him because he came late? or maybe he didn't usually show up at this particular pick-up game? If there's someone out there who can't sign up to post here, could they make a comment on Mr. AG's blog? Mr. AG, I'm sure you could handle that information, right? And then maybe post the quote here? Or is that a violation of some sort, Timex?

[Timex]

Im not getting into how ya'll are going to determine what has or has not been validated. Ive seen posts where Rooster says he/she is validating something...if that's considered validated by ya'lls standards, thats fine.


As for me personally, untill I hear it from LE or at trial, I wouldnt think much of it. I dont say that to undermine anyone...I say it because I honestly dont know who posters are here, so have no way of knowing if what they say is fact or not. Anyone could sign up and say....Yeah, I was with raven that night at the soccer game". That would mean nothing to me, as I would have no way of knowing if the person was or was not. I hope that makes sense, and doesnt sound condensending, because it wasnt intended to be.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Im not getting into how ya'll are going to determine what has or has not been validated. Ive seen posts where Rooster says he/she is validating something...if that's considered validated by ya'lls standards, thats fine.


As for me personally, untill I hear it from LE or at trial, I wouldnt think much of it. I dont say that to undermine anyone...I say it because I honestly dont know who posters are here, so have no way of knowing if what they say is fact or not. Anyone could sign up and say....Yeah, I was with raven that night at the soccer game". That would mean nothing to me, as I would have no way of knowing if the person was or was not. I hope that makes sense, and doesnt sound condensending, because it wasnt intended to be.
Point taken. However, should someone come on to WS, and claim to have been with Raven that evening, playing soccer, or whatever, one would hope that that same person would share that information with LE (unless they already have of course).

You are absolutely right though Timex - ANYONE could come on here, sign up, and post, "Hey guys, ok, I was with Raven playing soccer that night." But, coming on here and making a statement like that has consequences as well -

Anyone coming on this board and just spouting off information, surely must know from reading the posts, that most anything they say will be grabbed onto, and pursued, doggedly, in order to validate, or, dismiss...

And do remember, GM contacted LE in Durham weeks ago, informing them about this board, and passing along various bits of pertinent information. Accordingly, my first question/comment to anyone posting that sort of comment would be, "That's great! So you've shared this with LE already, right? And if not, we need to pass that along to the invesigator in charge."

That still would not obviously prove anything, no. It relates to a post I made earlier today - the ONLY comment we have regarding the soccer game at all, is from a media source, who attributed the commment to "family members."

Validation, confirmation, whatever you want to call it, in MY mind anyway, come with undeniable PROOF. Facts, as they say, are facts!

[Timex]

Everything you say is true. But LE isnt going to be bothered chasing down every nut that posts on these boards. We get them during every case. LE simply doesnt have the resources to check every person that makes a claim here. Do they read here? Im sure they do. Are they going to tell us if someone here is yanking our chain? I highly doubt it, and would consider it very unprofessional for them to do so.

[ewwwinteresting]

But LE isnt going to be bothered chasing down every nut that posts on these boards.
Should I be offended?:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[Timex]

Should I be offended?:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:


Ya'll REALLY have to stop reading so much into every word I post on these boards.

[ewwwinteresting]

Ya'll REALLY have to stop reading so much into every word I post on these boards.
It was just a joke!:slap:

[ewwwinteresting]

Looking at this picture, I noticed a dog tie on the porch. In the video, we saw Janet giving the dogs water on the porch. It was posted, that the dogs were in their kennel the night of Janet's murder. If Raven was leaving at night for a soccer game, why wouldn't the dogs be tied on the porch for some protection for his wife/baby from a possible intruder? I am thinking that if the dogs were in the kennel for the night, nobody was planning on leaving that night!http://ravenstree.com/images/Kaiden%20Images/IMGA0403.JPG

[JerseyGirl]

http://ravenstree.com/images/Kaiden%20Images/IMGA0403.JPG The picture's gone, EI.

[ewwwinteresting]

The picture's gone, EI.Really? You can't see it. Hmmm....wonder how I can see it when I click the link?

Ok, how about this link?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/LTUCher/Memorials/JanetAcopy.jpg

[lauriej]

yep...........this link works just perfect....



Really? You can't see it. Hmmm....wonder how I can see it when I click the link?

Ok, how about this link?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v508/LTUCher/Memorials/JanetAcopy.jpg

[JerseyGirl]

Really? You can't see it. Hmmm....wonder how I can see it when I click the link?Is that other picture from Raven's site? Maybe you have a cookie still in your hard drive? Did Raven remove the picture because I used to be able to see it at his site and now I can't.

[jodierenee]

His whole site is down for some reason.

Darn. Today is my first day in this forum and the link with the most info is not working. Figures! :waitasec:

[JerseyGirl]

Darn. Today is my first day in this forum and the link with the most info is not working. Figures! :waitasec:Welcome to the forum!!! :)

Yeah, someone discovered a short while back that his site was being taken down. Perhaps it is fully dismantled now? He's also closed his account, (under a name we know at least), at MySpace.com. Luckily, a lot of his posts from various places were copied and pasted to this forum before they started to disappear.

[NCBanker]

Regarding the question of why no one has come forward on this forum to validate Raven's claim of playing soccer the night of the murder, it has been established that the majority of those with whom Raven played were Hispanic, and possibly living here illegally. This is not a racist statement, but one of fact. The soccer team websites show the majority of the members being Hispanic. I have worked closely with and employed Hispanics in the past, and the majority of them were not here legitimately. In fact, I've caught several using social security numbers which are stolen from both the living and deceased, or one legitimate number being shared among a group. The last thing they're going to do is step into the limelight, only to be under scrutiny themselves.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Regarding the question of why no one has come forward on this forum to validate Raven's claim of playing soccer the night of the murder, it has been established that the majority of those with whom Raven played were Hispanic, and possibly living here illegally. This is not a racist statement, but one of fact. The soccer team websites show the majority of the members being Hispanic. I have worked closely with and employed Hispanics in the past, and the majority of them were not here legitimately. In fact, I've caught several using social security numbers which are stolen from both the living and deceased, or one legitimate number being shared among a group. The last thing they're going to do is step into the limelight, only to be under scrutiny themselves.
So along this train of thought -

Ok, so Raven heads out sometime the evening of the 25th to play soccer. Possibly finds a pick up game, as has been reported here anyway. And let's assume the game is being played primarily by Hispanic players, if not all.

Raven talks to LE, tells them his whereabouts for the evening. Let's say he goes so far as to say, "I really didn't know any of these guys, I just saw the game and played," or something to that effect.

Fact: Raven should at least be able to tell LE where the game was being played. At least the approx time he arrived, and later departed.

That said, LE now has the task to verify this information.

This being a pick up game, with no players names given to them, the task is perhaps a little more challenging than might normally be the case.

But, it's hard for me to imagine that LE did not/has not pursued that soccer game alibi, doggedly. Maybe they find out who routinely plays at this field, what days are routinely played, etc. And then, I would hope, at some point at least, they stumble across a similar game, etc. And questioning the players would become imperative. Illegally in this country and working or whatever? Perhaps. But being asked by LE simply to verify a person's presence at a game, doesn't necessarily imply they are going to be deported. On the flip side, NOT cooperating with LE would be the poor choice here...

While I think the "illegal Hispanic players" point has merit, this is a homicide case. And if this scenario was indeed given as an alibi for any POI, then my bet is LE left no stone unturned.

All of that said - I can certainly see why no one might have come foward on THIS forum, sure. But, speaking here, and speaking directly to LE, are two entirely different things.

[NCBanker]

My point was that,

A. Diehard Hispanic soccer players aren't following unsolved murders on the internet, and

B. They will avoid any and all contact with LE, regardless of how innocent that contact might be. Trust me.

I lived in Latin America for 2 years, work in international business and have been involved with the Hispanic members of our faith for many years. I base my theories on this experience.


So along this train of thought -

Ok, so Raven heads out sometime the evening of the 25th to play soccer. Possibly finds a pick up game, as has been reported here anyway. And let's assume the game is being played primarily by Hispanic players, if not all.

Raven talks to LE, tells them his whereabouts for the evening. Let's say he goes so far as to say, "I really didn't know any of these guys, I just saw the game and played," or something to that effect.

Fact: Raven should at least be able to tell LE where the game was being played. At least the approx time he arrived, and later departed.

That said, LE now has the task to verify this information.

This being a pick up game, with no players names given to them, the task is perhaps a little more challenging than might normally be the case.

But, it's hard for me to imagine that LE did not/has not pursued that soccer game alibi, doggedly. Maybe they find out who routinely plays at this field, what days are routinely played, etc. And then, I would hope, at some point at least, they stumble across a similar game, etc. And questioning the players would become imperative. Illegally in this country and working or whatever? Perhaps. But being asked by LE simply to verify a person's presence at a game, doesn't necessarily imply they are going to be deported. On the flip side, NOT cooperating with LE would be the poor choice here...

While I think the "illegal Hispanic players" point has merit, this is a homicide case. And if this scenario was indeed given as an alibi for any POI, then my bet is LE left no stone unturned.

All of that said - I can certainly see why no one might have come foward on THIS forum, sure. But, speaking here, and speaking directly to LE, are two entirely different things.

[cappuccina]

..I agree with you....They might talk THROUGH someone, though, such as an attorney in their community, if their anonymity were guaranteed...

[Bobbisangel]

If you look closer at the link, it talks about the organization donating soccer gear to some league in Africa, and that Eurosport arranged and paid for the shipping. When I first saw the Eurosport name there, I grasped at the same thing..then read further....


A lot of teams have sponsors that buy everything the players need. My daughter played on a women's softball team in Texas and Coors was their sponsor. Coors bought the outfits...mitts...softballs...bats...etc..for each player. I still have her bat and ball. Most sponsors do pay for everything.

From the earlier new articles it sounded like Raven did play that night. If he was actually playing...suited up and right there with the other players...he is probably not the killer. It seems like something would have happened with LE by now if Raven is guilty. I'd say he either didn't do it or LE didn't have enough evidence. I would just like to know where LE is in their investigation.

[lauriej]

. I would just like to know where LE is in their investigation.
.........exactly.....where IS LE in their investigation?
...that's the big question........THEY were the one to say, right from day one, it was "not random"..."no need for the public to worry"...blah blah blah...

...and yet, no arrest ? no follow up from LE since ?

...if i lived in that neighbourhood, i'd sure be worried....a young woman stabbed to death 8 weeks ago, her baby in the next room........!?

...if raven is a POI....fine.....( and they're giving him leeway/rope to hang himself.....)

...if not.....and i were raven.......( and surely we can assume he's done a google search and read this ENTIRE forum.........................probably has the bruises on his jaw still to prove it.....)then HE should be all over the media, "my god.....i'm 110% innocent...............i have an alibi ( link/witnesses ) ...i've read all sorts of horrible things all over the internet.....i LOVED my wife...( link: to his memorial to janet....)(oh..............right.....he never finished that.....)

...of course he does have a lawyer...........at least for the embezzling case ....and perhaps has been advised to say nothing.....but personally...........INNOCENT.....there's no way i could sit still and not want to clear my name, after reading page after page of accusations about myself.....

...instead.....he hasn't been posting on his favourite forums.....erased himself actually from at least one.....taken down the family web site.....and....................taken off from NC/VA to utah........WILL he return for the july 22nd hearing on the embezzelment charges ?

...i would think....an innocent man would....:
...definietly post a memorial to his wife..............( internet savvy as raven i s....)complete with guest book, etc.....
...be aware of the power of the media: and use them to his advantage, ie: interviews all over the place , getting the story out there and asking for help in any way....he seems like the type to me that would be HOUNDING the media...demanding to bring janet's killer to justice...

...and yet we've heard nothing from raven..........or LE...or the media....
...his silence says a lot...
...theirs is questionable ?.( DOES LE owe the public an ongoing explanation? i have no idea, but i think their "not random" statement 2 months ago is reason enough to merit a reply from them now..........
...media: sure they've had 3 murders again in just the past week.!.........so they elect to put janet 's case on the back burner ?

...someone is getting away with murder in durham NC.....LE isn't talking.....the media doesn't appear to care.........

...think of janet...........young, vibrant...pretty...new mother...and now no longer there for her baby.......and write to the editors ( links by SES on the please read: media thread).

[JerseyGirl]

...media: sure they've had 3 murders again in just the past week.!.........so they elect to put janet 's case on the back burner ?Even if they've had 20 murders in the past week, there's a big difference between someone being gunned down in the street and someone being stabbed to death in their own home during typically non-burglary hours. I'm surprised that the media hasn't made that distinction.

[ewwwinteresting]

Even if they've had 20 murders in the past week, there's a big difference between someone being gunned down in the street and someone being stabbed to death in their own home during typically non-burglary hours. I'm surprised that the media hasn't made that distinction.
As sad as it is, I really don't read much or are concerned about gang members killing gang members or a drug deal turned bad and a murder was committed but this is not what happened here. As you say, JG, a young girl was brutally stabbed to death in her own home between 7:00 and 11:00 pm. Yes, the LE has stated it was not random.......but, what, almost two months later, no mentioned suspects, POIs, or arrests. I just don't get it.:banghead:

BTW.....I believe Durham PD is hiring.....anybody need a job?

[JerseyGirl]

I agree, EI. Janet was not tangled up in something that could have predicted her death. She was a hard-working, loving mother, and someone somewhere owes her justice by finding and/or arresting the person that did this to her.

[JnTC]

Hey soccer players, how long does an adult pickup soccer game last?
A regulation soccer game is 45 minutes per half with a 10-20 minute halftime. The problem with pickup soccer games, or even organized league games is that times vary GREATLY. I played in a 6v6 league during which we played 20 minute halves. Pickup games can last anywhere from one to three or even four hours, not necessarily with 11 players on each side, not even necessarily with real goals. You just play to play. I don't know if that was the kind of game Raven was playing in, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were.

Someone mentioned they would like to know if we played with Janet or Raven, so I'll let it be known that I played with Janet at SVU. They were both very good, and both loved the game, as has been mentioned.

[surf_moon_stars]

orignally posted by JnTC

A regulation soccer game is 45 minutes per half with a 10-20 minute halftime. The problem with pickup soccer games, or even organized league games is that times vary GREATLY. I played in a 6v6 league during which we played 20 minute halves. Pickup games can last anywhere from one to three or even four hours, not necessarily with 11 players on each side, not even necessarily with real goals. You just play to play. I don't know if that was the kind of game Raven was playing in, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were.

Someone mentioned they would like to know if we played with Janet or Raven, so I'll let it be known that I played with Janet at SVU. They were both very good, and both loved the game, as has been mentioned.
Hi and welcome JnTC,

Thank you for the information you posted, as I hope this can bring some new insight or updates for LE on the above posted about soccer games.

[JerseyGirl]

I believe that Raven played soccer in Cary on the night in question. I have no way to prove this. Does anyone know about the facilities available in Cary, and how far from the house it is, etc.?

[SouthEastSleuth]

THE big soccer facility in Cary is SAS Soccer Park:

http://www.townofcary.org/depts/prdept/soccerpark/socceroverview.htm

A Mapquest search from Ferrand to Soccer Park Drive in Cary says:

Approx. 26.82 miles. Approx. Driving Time is 33 minutes
http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?go=1&do=nw&rmm=1&un=m&1rc=B1AAA&1n=DURHAM+COUNTY&cl=EN&ct=NA&rsres=1&1ahXX=&1y=US&1a=%5B2600-2699%5D+FERRAND+DR&1c=DURHAM&1s=NC&1z=27705&2ahXX=&2y=US&2a=201+Soccer+Park+Drive&2c=Cary&2s=NC&2z=

[JerseyGirl]

THE big soccer facility in Cary is SAS Soccer Park:

http://www.townofcary.org/depts/prdept/soccerpark/socceroverview.htmWow, so many things are going through my mind about this facility. It sounds huge - would they use a location this big for pick-up soccer?

Fields are available by reservation ...


• Permanent seating for 7,000 with expansion capability
• Lighted stadium field, two lighted practice fields & four other fields
• Concessions, locker rooms, rest rooms & meeting space
• 2,600 parking spaces




And look who plays here ...


Schedule of Events

Professional Soccer : 2005 Cary Cup
D.C. United vs. Rochester Rhinos




And some weird little coincidences here that mean absolutely nothing:

SAS Soccer Park was home to the Carolina Courage of the Women's United Soccer Association until the league suspended play in September 2003.

The Town of Cary assumed responsibility (http://www.townofcary.org/agenda/councilmin04/cm051304i.htm#soccer) for operations and maintenance in 2004 from Capital Area Soccer League.

SAS (http://www.sas.com/), a privately held software company, has its worldwide headquarters in Cary. SAS has naming rights to the soccer park.

[SouthEastSleuth]

It IS a huge facility - used for everything from kids leagues, to professional games, to area pick-up games, to HS games, etc. When the pro women's soccer league was still alive and well, the Carolina Courage played their games here. It's owned by the city, but SAS, which is THE large employer in Cary, bought naming rights, etc.

I think a good number of the local leagues play here as well.

And, a quick drive from Durham as well!!

[JerseyGirl]

And, a quick drive from Durham as well!!Agreed. The 33 minute drive time and the lighted fields certainly make this a possible location.

[lauriej]

Agreed. The 33 minute drive time and the lighted fields certainly make this a possible location.
..and the field was available the night in question:

Schedule for Soccer Park
Contact teams or organizations directly for tickets.
For assistance in reaching them, call (919) 858-0464.

April 9, 2005
Triangle Educational Advancement Foundation – High School Women’s Showcase

April 16, 2005
ACC Women’s Friendlies

April 17, 2005
ACC Men’s Friendlies

May 28-29, 2005
NCHSAA High School Women’s Championships

July 11, 2005
Rochester Rhinos vs. D.C United (http://www.townofcary.org/news/news2005/soccergame.htm)

[JerseyGirl]

A regulation soccer game is 45 minutes per half with a 10-20 minute halftime. The problem with pickup soccer games, or even organized league games is that times vary GREATLY.And with the lights on the field, it could have been four hours if they had wanted to play that long.

IF they played regulation, and the game started at 8:00 as we've heard, the game would have been over sometime between 9:40 and 9:50 P.M. Add in a 33 minute drive, and that takes us to between 10:13 and 10:23. And if he stopped off to get the Gatorade on the way home, that would only take a few minutes. That would bring us to probably 10:25 or 10:30. We don't know how fast he was driving or if there was any traffic but even so, the "onset of injury" was about 10:50. That leaves about twenty minutes or so for any traffic he might have experienced.

I'm not really going anywhere with this. Just wanted to figure out the timing.

Sounds like they may indeed have played a regulation game, (unless Raven left early because he said that he got home around 10:30)?

[LTUlegal]

And with the lights on the field, it could have been four hours if they had wanted to play that long.

IF they played regulation, and the game started at 8:00 as we've heard, the game would have been over sometime between 9:40 and 9:50 P.M. Add in a 33 minute drive, and that takes us to between 10:13 and 10:23. And if he stopped off to get the Gatorade on the way home, that would only take a few minutes. That would bring us to probably 10:25 or 10:30. We don't know how fast he was driving or if there was any traffic but even so, the "onset of injury" was about 10:50. That leaves about twenty minutes or so for any traffic he might have experienced.

I'm not really going anywhere with this. Just wanted to figure out the timing.

Sounds like they may indeed have played a regulation game, (unless Raven left early because he said that he got home around 10:30)?
Didn't someone say that Raven said he left the game early because he had on odd feeling, or something to that effect? If it were true, how early? 10-15 minutes?

[lauriej]

Didn't someone say that Raven said he left the game early because he had on odd feeling, or something to that effect? If it were true, how early? 10-15 minutes?
..wow....now that's a telling statement........"he left early due to a "feeling"??
...i honestly don't recall that one..........

...it does seem that he's put quite a few 'odd feelings'....'different statements' out there himself since that night.......
...which one of raven's stories IS the truth ?

[LTUlegal]

..wow....now that's a telling statement........"he left early due to a "feeling"??
...i honestly don't recall that one..........

...it does seem that he's put quite a few 'odd feelings'....'different statements' out there himself since that night.......
...which one of raven's stories IS the truth ?Honestly, I don't know if it's a story that I'd heard that Raven told, or a rumor, but I'm pretty sure I heard it somewhere! (sorry not very specific, it's all beginning to run together!) Only one person knows the truth, but unfortunately, she's not alive to tell us. :(
eta: now I feel stupid because I can't find where I thought I'd heard that....:slap:

[goodolebv]

Honestly, I don't know if it's a story that I'd heard that Raven told, or a rumor, but I'm pretty sure I heard it somewhere! (sorry not very specific, it's all beginning to run together!) Only one person knows the truth, but unfortunately, she's not alive to tell us. :(
eta: now I feel stupid because I can't find where I thought I'd heard that....:slap:
I too heard that Raven said he experienced an "odd" feeling during the soccer game. But to my knowledge he did not leave the game early, he only said he had an odd feeling.

[golfmom]

I too heard that Raven said he experienced an "odd" feeling during the soccer game. But to my knowledge he did not leave the game early, he only said he had an odd feeling.

Thanks for letting us know that GOBV. It's funny how people do get those feelings in life ... discernment ... it's important to listen to that little voice within. Mine says "Raven Is Guilty and Justice will be Done!"

[goodolebv]

But then again, that is just what Raven said. And we know that changes with every blow of the wind. My little voice agrees with you GM

[golfmom]

But then again, that is just what Raven said. And we know that changes with every blow of the wind. My little voice agrees with you GM


LOL GOBV, he better be careful to stay out of the wind or that combover effect that's going on now will blowover! :loser:

[JerseyGirl]

I too heard that Raven said he experienced an "odd" feeling during the soccer game. But to my knowledge he did not leave the game early, he only said he had an odd feeling.This sounds so contrived on Raven's part. What was this odd feeling? Obviously it couldn't have been anything too bad if he didn't bother to leave the game early. And then possibly stopped off for that Gatorade on his way home.

[golfmom]

This sounds so contrived on Raven's part. What was this odd feeling? Obviously it couldn't have been anything too bad if he didn't bother to leave the game early. And then possibly stopped off for that Gatorade on his way home.

Next thing you know he'll be breaking out the ashes and sackcloth and ripping out his hair ... oops ... he can't rip it out because it's falling out too quickly!

[Jenifred]

I too heard that Raven said he experienced an "odd" feeling during the soccer game. But to my knowledge he did not leave the game early, he only said he had an odd feeling.
Sounds so much like a Mormon story--not to discredit that these things can happen--but it's like he wanted it to sound that way to take some heat off of himself.

Ah to adhere to the religion that he obviously had already abandoned...he's slime.

[lauriej]

Honestly, I don't know if it's a story that I'd heard that Raven told, or a rumor, but I'm pretty sure I heard it somewhere! (sorry not very specific, it's all beginning to run together!) Only one person knows the truth, but unfortunately, she's not alive to tell us. :(
eta: now I feel stupid because I can't find where I thought I'd heard that....:slap:
.....oh my goodness LTU...........please, no apologies at all over what you recall and from where.......:)
...we've ALL scrambled all over the original posts etc trying to remember what was out there "back then"...
...the GOOD thing.........because there ARE a lot of posts to go through, to me, means this has been a serious sleuthing operation.........
...keep your thoughts coming............it's all coming together............and soon we'll have an arest..........

[JerseyGirl]

...we've ALL scrambled all over the original posts etc trying to remember what was out there "back then"...So very true! I'm at the point now where I can't remember if I read something or thought it! And I often can't remember if I posted something I thought of, so I hesitate posting it because I can't remember if I already did. LOL. I REALLY hope it's just this case - otherwise, age is sneaking up on me a lot faster than I would have suspected!

[terminatrixator]

This happens to me all the time, I don't know if I thought it, read it, or had that gut feeling myself, but no matter it all ends with :behindbar.

[lauriej]

It IS a huge facility - used for everything from kids leagues, to professional games, to area pick-up games, to HS games, etc. When the pro women's soccer league was still alive and well, the Carolina Courage played their games here. It's owned by the city, but SAS, which is THE large employer in Cary, bought naming rights, etc.

I think a good number of the local leagues play here as well.

And, a quick drive from Durham as well!!
...i contacted the field manager, asking it it would be possible for an un-registered league, a group of dedicated soccer players, to rent the field for a "pick-up" game.......

his response:


What night? What times? I need some more information. Shouldn't be a problem in the least.


Brad Myers
Assistant Athletic Facility Supervisor
SAS Soccer Park
Town of Cary Parks, Recreation and Cultural Resources
201 Soccer Park Drive
Cary, NC 27511
Office Phone: 919.858.0473
Facility Main Line: 919.858.0464
Facility Fax Line: 919.858.0521
E-Mail: Brad.Myers@TownofCary.org
...........so yes.........looks like the field was available to anyone , as long as it was vacant on the night in question............

[lauriej]

another note:

i also got the impression that to play here would not be FREE.........

...therefore, raven didn't just decide to drop by, ( kicking one of the other goalies off of his paid-for position...)

...if this WAS where the pick-up game was played that night.............and raven was one of the goal-tenders.........i'd say it was a pre-paid thing......( gotta love e-bay!), and that it was well pre-planned for raven to be there.......

[ewwwinteresting]

This sounds so contrived on Raven's part. What was this odd feeling? Obviously it couldn't have been anything too bad if he didn't bother to leave the game early. And then possibly stopped off for that Gatorade on his way home.
An odd feeling? What? That he felt like going home and killing his wife and unborn child? That would a psychotic feeling, not an odd one!

If this "odd" feeling was real, wonder if he called home to Janet to make sure everything is ok? I'm sure his phone records would show the phone call and if there wasn't one, how "odd" could it really have been??

[ewwwinteresting]

another note:

i also got the impression that to play here would not be FREE.........

...therefore, raven didn't just decide to drop by, ( kicking one of the other goalies off of his paid-for position...)

...if this WAS where the pick-up game was played that night.............and raven was one of the goal-tenders.........i'd say it was a pre-paid thing......( gotta love e-bay!), and that it was well pre-planned for raven to be there.......
Good info lj! Thanks for calling.
If raven planned to attend the game to use as an alibi, he totally screwed up the time issue!

[Bobbisangel]

So there isn't a way to verify that Raven actually did play soccer that night and what time the game started and what time it got over? It's hard to figure anything else out unless we know if he played or not and if he did what time the game started and ended. LE must be having a difficult time finding any evidence or they would have arrested him by now. If we could just find out for fact about the darn game then we would know if he has a solid alibi or not.
We would need to know how long it would take him to drive home from the game..if he went to one.

I've always wondered if he didn't kill Janet but I am uncomfortable even thinking that when I don't know if he actually played soccer that night and the timeline if he did. I don't feel like I know enough to focus on anyone.

[golfmom]

LE must be having a difficult time finding any evidence or they would have arrested him by now.

Just my personal opinion Bobbi, I believe they have all the evidence that they need that Raven is the murderer. What I believe they were lacking is evidence of premeditation. I don't think they want a repeat of the Peterson East trial and are taking their time ensuring every detail is solid before he is arrested.

[JerseyGirl]

It has been verified that he played soccer that night but the timing is a little less certain.

[ewwwinteresting]

So there isn't a way to verify that Raven actually did play soccer that night and what time the game started and what time it got over? It's hard to figure anything else out unless we know if he played or not and if he did what time the game started and ended. LE must be having a difficult time finding any evidence or they would have arrested him by now. If we could just find out for fact about the darn game then we would know if he has a solid alibi or not.
We would need to know how long it would take him to drive home from the game..if he went to one.

I've always wondered if he didn't kill Janet but I am uncomfortable even thinking that when I don't know if he actually played soccer that night and the timeline if he did. I don't feel like I know enough to focus on anyone.
He has told LE that he was home at 10:30ish and we now have the autopsy report saying TOD is 10:55 pm. I'm not seeing now that his soccer alibi is helping him in the least??

[SouthEastSleuth]

Ok, so in light on the new LE press info, we have a few new bits of information regarding the infamous soccer game.

The WRAL article references that Raven left Ferrand "around 830pm" to go play indoor soccer in Morrisville. (Morrisville is a small town, SE of Durham, near the airport, and before Cary and ultimately Raleigh.)

I found a reference to one place in Morrisville that offers indoor soccer, the Carolina Sportsplex:

http://www.carolinasportsplex.com/

Informationally, I also checked Mapquest for info on distances and routes between Ferrand and the Carolina Sportsplex (3717 Davis Dr., Morrisville) - a pretty easy and direct route, as it's mostly highway driving.

It appears that the distance is about 20.71 miles, with an approx. driving time of 30 minutes.

http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?go=1&do=nw&rmm=1&2si=navt&un=m&2gi=0&cl=EN&ct=NA&2da=-1.000000&2rc=L1AAA&rsres=1&1y=US&1ffi=&1l=&1g=&1pl=&1v=&1n=&1pn=&1a=2606+FERRAND+DR&1c=DURHAM&1s=NC&1z=27705-1738&panelbtn=1&2y=US&2ffi=&2l=jG76fGy9dXM%253d&2g=q8fuhJsMfSE%253d&2pl=&2v=ADDRESS&2n=WAKE+COUNTY&2pn=&2a=3717+DAVIS+DR&2c=MORRISVILLE&2s=NC&2z=27560-8847


I'm sure there's much to dig into here, but I wanted to get this info on here quickly.

What we do know - IF Raven left Ferrand at 830pm, then if he drove directly to Morrisville, he arrived around 900pm. We always HEARD that he arrived home around 1030pm that evening, and extrapolating backwards, that would imply he left Morrisville around 1000pm, thus having played soccer for one hour....and, this assumes too that he drove straight home from soccer.... IF in fact he made any stops, either coming or going, the actual soccer playing time could be less, or, his arrival time home could be something different as well.... Just some randoms thoughts at this point anyway....

[JerseyGirl]

You read my mind, SES. Soccer for an hour. And we have some stories of him stopping off to get that Gatorade either to or from? That's not a whole lot of soccer. Seems like he might have spent more time driving that night than playing. To drive an hour for less than an hour's worth of play ... what was so important about fitting that partial game in that night?

[ewwwinteresting]

Ok, so in light on the new LE press info, we have a few new bits of information regarding the infamous soccer game.

The WRAL article references that Raven left Ferrand "around 830pm" to go play indoor soccer in Morrisville. (Morrisville is a small town, SE of Durham, near the airport, and before Cary and ultimately Raleigh.)

I found a reference to one place in Morrisville that offers indoor soccer, the Carolina Sportsplex:

http://www.carolinasportsplex.com/

Informationally, I also checked Mapquest for info on distances and routes between Ferrand and the Carolina Sportsplex (3717 Davis Dr., Morrisville) - a pretty easy and direct route, as it's mostly highway driving.

It appears that the distance is about 20.71 miles, with an approx. driving time of 30 minutes.


What we do know - IF Raven left Ferrand at 830pm, then if he drove directly to Morrisville, he arrived around 900pm. We always HEARD that he arrived home around 1030pm that evening, and extrapolating backwards, that would imply he left Morrisville around 1000pm, thus having played soccer for one hour....and, this assumes too that he drove straight home from soccer.... IF in fact he made any stops, either coming or going, the actual soccer playing time could be less, or, his arrival time home could be something different as well.... Just some randoms thoughts at this point anyway....This is good info SES and sorry I just noticed it.

raven leaves home at 8:30
raven arrives at soccer at 9:00
raven plays soccer until 10 or 10:15
raven arrives home at 10:30 or 10:45
raven calls 911 at 10:58 pm

Janet's injury is at 10:50 and TOD is stated to be 10:55 pm

Couple questions here. How can raven get home at 10:30 or 10:45, kill his wife and hide the murder weapon (so that PD can't find it) and get home to call 911 at 10:58 pm? I wish LE would put out the times that the Durango was on the road. I'm sure they checked with people at the soccer field. When was the last time anybody saw him there? If raven showed up but left at 9:30 and was home by 10:00, he'd have plenty of time. However, if the last person saw him there at 10:25 and he didn't arrive home until 10:50, there is no way.
I noticed in the autopsy report that the View of the Body was done at 11:00 am on the 28th at the morgue and that a ME was called on the 27th (no time listed). WHY wasn't a ME called on the 26th? Obviously the first officers on the scene would know this was a murder. I don't understand why a ME wasn't on the scene immediately?? Am I not understanding something here?

[snapple]

This is good info SES and sorry I just noticed it.

raven leaves home at 8:30
raven arrives at soccer at 9:00
raven plays soccer until 10 or 10:15
raven arrives home at 10:30 or 10:45
raven calls 911 at 10:58 pm

Janet's injury is at 10:50 and TOD is stated to be 10:55 pm

Couple questions here. How can raven get home at 10:30 or 10:45, kill his wife and hide the murder weapon (so that PD can't find it) and get home to call 911 at 10:58 pm? I wish LE would put out the times that the Durango was on the road. I'm sure they checked with people at the soccer field. When was the last time anybody saw him there? If raven showed up but left at 9:30 and was home by 10:00, he'd have plenty of time. However, if the last person saw him there at 10:25 and he didn't arrive home until 10:50, there is no way.
I noticed in the autopsy report that the View of the Body was done at 11:00 am on the 28th at the morgue and that a ME was called on the 27th (no time listed). WHY wasn't a ME called on the 26th? Obviously the first officers on the scene would know this was a murder. I don't understand why a ME wasn't on the scene immediately?? Am I not understanding something here?
Maybe they were called right after midnight...so it would be the 27th. Let's hope that a whole day didn't pass without a ME called!!!

[SouthEastSleuth]

Maybe they were called right after midnight...so it would be the 27th. Let's hope that a whole day didn't pass without a ME called!!!
I think this is a good assumption snapple - remember, 911 call was at 1058pm, so by the time LE responded, crime scene techs were called, I would think it was sometime, for sure, on the 27th that the ME was notified... You'll also notice on the ME report that the ME "view of body" was 1100am on the 28th. What we don't know, I don't think, is what time the body was removed from Ferrand Drive. I checked the regulations for the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner for NC, and according to their various protocols, the timing doesn't seem out of the ordinary.

3.A death will be reported to a medical examiner by any person who has knowledge of the death or who finds the dead body. Usually this will be a law enforcement agency, rescue squad, State Highway Patrol, funeral home, emergency room or private physician. The medical examiner should make a rapid initial evaluation of the reported death to ascertain whether he/she should assume jurisdiction over the case. The medical examiner should tell the reporting party promptly what to do with the dead body. The body should not be removed from the scene of death until the medical examiner has authorized the removal. If an ME plans to go to the scene to view the body this should be made clear to the notifying agents and the ME should respond promptly. Law enforcement officials may authorize removal in emergency situations. The ME should make arrangements with law enforcement agencies, funeral homes, and hospitals in the area to facilitate the prompt disposition of the dead body. The medical examiner may direct that a body be removed from the scene to a more convenient repository for detailed examination at a more convenient time. Most cases will not require the medical examiner's presence at the scene of the death, and the law does not require a scene visit. The ME should make a special effort, if at all possible, to visit the scene of all homicide deaths, and to such other scenes of death as may contribute to a better understanding of the case. If the medical examiner does not visit the scene, the information about the scene, how the body was found, etc., must be obtained from law enforcement, EMS personnel or others having such direct knowledge.



http://www.ocme.unc.edu/rules/guidelines.shtml

[JerseyGirl]

This is good info SES and sorry I just noticed it.

raven leaves home at 8:30
raven arrives at soccer at 9:00
raven plays soccer until 10 or 10:15
raven arrives home at 10:30 or 10:45
raven calls 911 at 10:58 pm

Janet's injury is at 10:50 and TOD is stated to be 10:55 pm

Couple questions here. How can raven get home at 10:30 or 10:45, kill his wife and hide the murder weapon (so that PD can't find it) and get home to call 911 at 10:58 pm? I wish LE would put out the times that the Durango was on the road. I'm sure they checked with people at the soccer field. When was the last time anybody saw him there? If raven showed up but left at 9:30 and was home by 10:00, he'd have plenty of time. However, if the last person saw him there at 10:25 and he didn't arrive home until 10:50, there is no way.First, the timing of the game - we've also heard rumors of Raven leaving the game early, Raven stopping for a drink, etc. So if we start subtracting all of the rumors from that hour, how much time could have been left? It starts to make it seem like the travel time was longer than the time that Raven was actually at the game. In that case, it almost makes it seem as if soccer that night was just for an alibi.

Secondly, the murder in a tight time frame - I saw a story on Court TV a while back about a man that had murdered a woman and hid the weapon under a floor board in the house before LE arrived. LE searched the house for HOURS and never did find it. So while certain scenarios might seem unlikely, perhaps even highly unlikely, almost nothing is impossible. I still firmly believe that Raven could have hidden a weapon effectively if he had chosen to do so - even in a very tight time frame.

[BirdHunter]

First, the timing of the game - we've also heard rumors of Raven leaving the game early, Raven stopping for a drink, etc. So if we start subtracting all of the rumors from that hour, how much time could have been left? It starts to make it seem like the travel time was longer than the time that Raven was actually at the game. In that case, it almost makes it seem as if soccer that night was just for an alibi.

Secondly, the murder in a tight time frame - I saw a story on Court TV a while back about a man that had murdered a woman and hid the weapon under a floor board in the house before LE arrived. LE searched the house for HOURS and never did find it. So while certain scenarios might seem unlikely, perhaps even highly unlikely, almost nothing is impossible. I still firmly believe that Raven could have hidden a weapon effectively if he had chosen to do so - even in a very tight time frame.Wow that is very interesting. There is a family living in that house on Ferrand Dr. Wouldn't that be freaky to find something hidden there? Actually I do feel really bad for that family, but at the same time I feel bad for the landlord.

[munch]

he redid the bathroom upstairs in the fall of 2004. I guess that could be a possible spot.

[terminatrixator]

I'm hoping LE checked the soap in the bathroom and also checked out the sink and tub!

[lauriej]

..i seriously don't think it would be too difficult to conceal/hide a knife that night......and dispose of it later.........but the missing laptop?

..why IS it missing? because raven didn't want janet to access it when he went to the soccer game ? because it has incriminating evidence on it that he didn't want LE to access ?

..i remember earlier that we heard that janet was text messaging a co-worker/friend that night------------from another computer ? did they also have a PC?

..the "missing laptop"----------a laptop doesn't just disappear into thin air , where could it be ?

[BirdHunter]

..i seriously don't think it would be too difficult to conceal/hide a knife that night......and dispose of it later.........but the missing laptop?

..why IS it missing? because raven didn't want janet to access it when he went to the soccer game ? because it has incriminating evidence on it that he didn't want LE to access ?

..i remember earlier that we heard that janet was text messaging a co-worker/friend that night------------from another computer ? did they also have a PC?

..the "missing laptop"----------a laptop doesn't just disappear into thin air , where could it be ?Janet was not on the computer that night. Her friend sent her emails the next day when she heard that their had been an incident on Ferrand St. She tried to reach her and then drove over to the house, that's is when the news media caught up with her and she learned of the murder.

[terminatrixator]

So if Janet was not on the computer that evening at all, that could mean that Raven took the laptop with him to Soccer, leaving Janet without laptop, without a vehicle, and didn't we hear a rumor that Raven had to search for a cell phone, why wasn't Janet's cell phone in a handy place or his for that matter? Why would he have needed to take the laptop with him, unless there was something on there he didn't want Janet to see, or access. Maybe Raven took the laptop with him to soccer and lost it conveniently?

(That's the ONLY thing missing from the house mind you. They had jewelry, money, items that were worth more than a laptop sitting there in the home, undisturbed.)

By 8:30 that would have been time to get Kaiden to bed (and we know Kaiden was in bed when Raven got home.) What did she do then? This is the time, that I would have sat down to read my emails and send my emails, if she wasn't on the computer what was she doing?

Hot USED laptops are not a high commodity item.

[JerseyGirl]

Wow that is very interesting. There is a family living in that house on Ferrand Dr. Wouldn't that be freaky to find something hidden there?And that's what happened in this story ... whomever lived in the house many years later found the weapon while remodeling. :eek:

[JerseyGirl]

I'm hoping LE checked the soap in the bathroom and also checked out the sink and tub!There was a swabbing taken from a bathroom floor so it sounds as if they did check that room. How thoroughly I don't know. Hoping it included the drains.

[JerseyGirl]

So if Janet was not on the computer that evening at all, that could mean that Raven took the laptop with him to Soccer, leaving Janet without laptop, without a vehicle, and didn't we hear a rumor that Raven had to search for a cell phone, why wasn't Janet's cell phone in a handy place or his for that matter? Why would he have needed to take the laptop with him, unless there was something on there he didn't want Janet to see, or access. Maybe Raven took the laptop with him to soccer and lost it conveniently?

(That's the ONLY thing missing from the house mind you. They had jewelry, money, items that were worth more than a laptop sitting there in the home, undisturbed.)

By 8:30 that would have been time to get Kaiden to bed (and we know Kaiden was in bed when Raven got home.) What did she do then? This is the time, that I would have sat down to read my emails and send my emails, if she wasn't on the computer what was she doing?

Hot USED laptops are not a high commodity item.
I am of the belief that the laptop was gone before the murder. I am also leaning towards the belief that Kaiden was in bed before the hometeacher(s) arrived. As for what Janet was doing, we know she probably didn't shower because she was found wearing shoes and even earrings. So maybe she was doing laundry, reading, paying bills ...

[terminatrixator]

Or maybe she watching Martha Stewart teach how to make Merengue, or bake gingerbread cookies, or getting ready to take the dog on a walk or curling her hair or mopping the floor.

Did Raven ever come and say WHAT Janet was doing WHEN HE LEFT? (shades of Scott Peterson)

[Jenifred]

I think that's a really good point trix--what was Janet doing when Raven left? Never once did we hear a statement on what she was doing as Raven left the house. Of course, with all the responsibilities that she had--bread winner, mother, adult--I wouldn't blame her if she was watching TV all night. But then, how did she end up in an upstairs bedroom??

[munch]

I'm sure this was discussed a while back, but they had a laptop and a desktop computer.

There were also 2 bathrooms up stairs, one in the master bedroom and one right when you came up the stairs. the one they repainted and worked on was the one right up the stairs.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I'm sure this was discussed a while back, but they had a laptop and a desktop computer.

There were also 2 bathrooms up stairs, one in the master bedroom and one right when you came up the stairs. the one they repainted and worked on was the one right up the stairs.

munch - is that something you can confirm 100%? The reason I ask - I had heard, and certainly unconfirmed, a good while ago that in fact there was only ONE computer - the laptop - but, that they also had a docking station for the laptop, so it could be used like a desktop with a regular monitor, keyboard, etc. But again, that was just unconfirmed information...

[terminatrixator]

I heard the same thing too SES. I thought there was a docking station, but the only confirmation I know was that there was a laptop. There is no confirmation that there was actual desktop computer, just a docking station.

[RainbowsAndGumdrops]

Do you remember the pictures of Raven from Ravenstree. There was a picture of him on working at the computer holding Kaiden. He said that Kaiden was helping him prepare his Home Teaching Lesson. There was a lot of discussion about that. Knowing that the laptop was missing, I found it interesting that the computer in the picture was a desktop computer with a tower.... I am about 99.9% sure of that. That is just one of the details that has always struck me as odd. Does anyone have an archive link to that page where we can double check?

[JerseyGirl]

I just did some searching but can't find that photo with Raven and Kaiden at the computer. All of our links that I've found were links to Ravenstree which Raven dismantled a while back. Does anyone have that picture saved anywhere?

In any case, I did find two posts by SES that partially describe what was visible in that pic. It seems that it was NOT evident from the photo whether it was a laptop or a desktop computer:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Evidence (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=677369&postcount=133)

"... I was looking at the picture from ravenstree.com, the one taken April 24, 2005, with Raven at the computer, with Kaiden in his lap. I wonder if it's possible that instead of having a traditional desktop, if Raven in fact had only the laptop, and used a port to connect it to the monitor? That way the laptop is always flexible..you just pull it out of the port, and off you go. I enlarged the pic and brightened it, but I couldn't really tell much... looks like it might be a flat screen monitor, but otherwise I couldn't really tell if there might be a docking port there for a laptop or not.....

Even so, if that were the case, and the laptop had been removed from the port, the keyboard and monitor would still presumably be there...."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Evidence (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=678622&postcount=335)

"I remember, too, that Rooster reported that they ONLY had cell phones, no land line. But, look closely at this picture. (It's the picture from April 24, 2005, with Raven at the computer, holding Kaiden in his lap)... On the left-hand side of the picture, about 1/2 down what looks like the side of a flat screen monitor... Guessing for sure, but that sure looks like a regular telephone there to me. It's not the size/shape of the HP charger that I looked up. Maybe it could be a cellphone charger...but darn, it looks like a regular telephone to me...."

[terminatrixator]

Do you remember the pictures of Raven from Ravenstree. There was a picture of him on working at the computer holding Kaiden. He said that Kaiden was helping him prepare his Home Teaching Lesson. There was a lot of discussion about that. Knowing that the laptop was missing, I found it interesting that the computer in the picture was a desktop computer with a tower.... I am about 99.9% sure of that. That is just one of the details that has always struck me as odd. Does anyone have an archive link to that page where we can double check?
Thanks for the information Rainbows!

[BirdHunter]

I am of the belief that the laptop was gone before the murder. I am also leaning towards the belief that Kaiden was in bed before the hometeacher(s) arrived. As for what Janet was doing, we know she probably didn't shower because she was found wearing shoes and even earrings. So maybe she was doing laundry, reading, paying bills ...I think you may be right about this.

[BirdHunter]

I think that's a really good point trix--what was Janet doing when Raven left? Never once did we hear a statement on what she was doing as Raven left the house. Of course, with all the responsibilities that she had--bread winner, mother, adult--I wouldn't blame her if she was watching TV all night. But then, how did she end up in an upstairs bedroom??Office.

[BirdHunter]

I heard the same thing too SES. I thought there was a docking station, but the only confirmation I know was that there was a laptop. There is no confirmation that there was actual desktop computer, just a docking station.They had a laptop (Raven's) A monitor (the one you see in the photo on the website) and a docking station. At one time they had a desk computer, but it was gone by the time they moved into that house on Ferrand.

[terminatrixator]

Thanks BirdHunter that's what I thought.

So, confirmed, there was no office table computer, just a laptop and that's the only thing missing, oh that and the weapon.

[BirdHunter]

Thanks BirdHunter that's what I thought.

So, confirmed, there was no office table computer, just a laptop and that's the only thing missing, oh that and the weapon.And Raven's conscience. :liar:

[munch]

I remember a desktop computer being downstairs inbetween the kitchen and the kitchen table. I'm sure of that. Whether they sold it or not, I don't know. Whether or not they moved it up stairs, I don't know.

Granted we are talking November 2004, so things could have changed.

[terminatrixator]

Well if it wasn't in the home after the murder, and wasn't reported as missing, then guess The Raven has more splainin' to do!

[ewwwinteresting]

he redid the bathroom upstairs in the fall of 2004. I guess that could be a possible spot.
Did he actually remodel the bathroom? Weren't they renting the house? Maybe he was exchanging work for rent?

[munch]

he painted, wallpapered, etc.

[ewwwinteresting]

he painted, wallpapered, etc.
Thanks munch. Was raven much of a "handyman" that you know of?

[Jenifred]

Anyone know who spent the most time in the office? Janet or Raven? Was it odd for Janet to be in that room at all? Or did they share it?

And I too, remember seeing a computer in the memorial video in the kitchen area.

[lauriej]

I just did some searching but can't find that photo with Raven and Kaiden at the computer. All of our links that I've found were links to Ravenstree which Raven dismantled a while back. Does anyone have that picture saved anywhere?

In any case, I did find two posts by SES that partially describe what was visible in that pic. It seems that it was NOT evident from the photo whether it was a laptop or a desktop computer:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Evidence (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=677369&postcount=133)

"... I was looking at the picture from ravenstree.com, the one taken April 24, 2005, with Raven at the computer, with Kaiden in his lap. I wonder if it's possible that instead of having a traditional desktop, if Raven in fact had only the laptop, and used a port to connect it to the monitor? That way the laptop is always flexible..you just pull it out of the port, and off you go. I enlarged the pic and brightened it, but I couldn't really tell much... looks like it might be a flat screen monitor, but otherwise I couldn't really tell if there might be a docking port there for a laptop or not.....

Even so, if that were the case, and the laptop had been removed from the port, the keyboard and monitor would still presumably be there...."

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Evidence (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=678622&postcount=335)

"I remember, too, that Rooster reported that they ONLY had cell phones, no land line. But, look closely at this picture. (It's the picture from April 24, 2005, with Raven at the computer, holding Kaiden in his lap)... On the left-hand side of the picture, about 1/2 down what looks like the side of a flat screen monitor... Guessing for sure, but that sure looks like a regular telephone there to me. It's not the size/shape of the HP charger that I looked up. Maybe it could be a cellphone charger...but darn, it looks like a regular telephone to me...."
...unfortunately JG..those "old" posts do link to the "ravenstree" pics, which raven has removed.........( oddly enough, although even 'wayback machine' has lost those pics, raven has left some of the wedding photos, and some of he and his friends 'goofing around' still accessible on "wayback"---------------so he DID have options in what he left available..)

..the question-------------why did he choose to remove a cute shot of himself and kaiden ?

..is it because he was clearly sitting at a PC , and it is also missing ?

[munch]

not much of a handy man...that i can remember

[JerseyGirl]

...unfortunately JG..those "old" posts do link to the "ravenstree" pics, which raven has removed....A WS'er found and posted the picture in question on the general discussion thread. Here's a link to that post:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - General Discussion #7 (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=959379&postcount=85)

The only computer components visible in the pic are the monitor, the keyboard, and something else (that we discussed at great length in the past -lol). That something else is cleary not a tower. So as far as that picture is concerned, there is nothing to show that Raven was using a desktop computer the day before the murder. And if what BirdHunter has said on another thread is true, that Janet was able to e-mail with her friends when Raven allowed her to use his laptop, it sounds as if there was at least no other computer in the house with Internet access.

[terminatrixator]

I also heard from several people that there was indeed only the laptop and that was indeed a dataport, and though they had a monitor, it was just that a monitor with a dataport to plug the laptop into.

I would really love to hear from people that were at the soccer game, in Morrissville that evening and hear from them when was the first time they noticed Raven show up, when did he leave.

I had heard several conflicting reports on this time of arrival and time of departure and his attitude, and things he said afterwards.

Can anyone bring anything new to this discussion?

[Tricia]

Has it ever been proven that he was not at the game?

[JerseyGirl]

No, to the contrary, it seems fairly well confirmed that he did play soccer that night. It was even mentioned in LE's press release last week. It was rumored that he showed up late but how late, we don't know. It was also rumored that he left early because he had a strange feeling but again, we don't know what time.

[Tricia]

No, to the contrary, it seems fairly well confirmed that he did play soccer that night. It was even mentioned in LE's press release last week. It was rumored that he showed up late but how late, we don't know. It was also rumored that he left early because he had a strange feeling but again, we don't know what time.

As an outsider looking in this case seems weak against him to be honest.

He had opportunity and motive if we are to believe that they were breaking up, had major money problems, and she was pregnant. I'll give you that.

Is opportunity and motive without other evidence enough?

In the Peterson case, almost all circumstantial, you have him at the one place, over 90 miles away from home, where the bodys turned up. To me that is one of the main things that made it a slam dunk.

Unless there is blood spray on Raven clothes or something along those lines I don't see how he can be convicted.

[SouthEastSleuth]

As an outsider looking in this case seems weak against him to be honest.

He had opportunity and motive if we are to believe that they were breaking up, had major money problems, and she was pregnant. I'll give you that.

Is opportunity and motive without other evidence enough?

In the Peterson case, almost all circumstantial, you have him at the one place, over 90 miles away from home, where the bodys turned up. To me that is one of the main things that made it a slam dunk.

Unless there is blood spray on Raven clothes or something along those lines I don't see how he can be convicted.

Well, we do know for a fact (from the warrant released by LE) that LE took Raven's clothing that night. Was there blood? Who knows. Raven obviously told SOMEONE that he moved Janet that night, as that statement is included in the ME report narrative ("He rolled her over and saw that she was not breathing.") So one could GUESS that he might have had blood on his clothing from moving Janet. And, we know there was blood on the interior of the side door and doorframe, downstairs, and, perhaps on the exterior of the Durango. If Rooster is to be believed, Raven himself deposited the blood on those locations when looking for a phone. But, regardless, that blood made it from the upstairs office/bedroom, downstairs, and outside, somehow....


I guess it opens a question for me too though - in a case that's largely circumstantial, what does it take for a DA to feel confident enough in the CE evidence to give LE the go ahead for an arrest, etc.? Is it the AMOUNT of CE?

[JerseyGirl]

Well, we do know for a fact (from the warrant released by LE) that LE took Raven's clothing that night. Was there blood? Who knows. Raven obviously told SOMEONE that he moved Janet that night, as that statement is included in the ME report narrative ("He rolled her over and saw that she was not breathing.") So one could GUESS that he might have had blood on his clothing from moving Janet...Didn't we also hear claims that he had tried to resuscitate Janet as well as that he held her after realizing that she was gone?

[Tricia]

Didn't we also hear claims that he had tried to resuscitate Janet as well as that he held her after realizing that she was gone?

To me the blood evidence is easily explained away. The blood evidence we know of anyway.

Unless we can find out differently I see no reason NOT to believe what Raven said he did. Went downstairs, outside, and to the car to look for the phone. Easy to accept. Logical too.

I feel like we have this huge 5000 piece puzzle and all we have are the solid blue border pieces. From this, we are trying to guess the picture. It could be anything.

[terminatrixator]

Well, we do know for a fact (from the warrant released by LE) that LE took Raven's clothing that night. Was there blood? Who knows. Raven obviously told SOMEONE that he moved Janet that night, as that statement is included in the ME report narrative ("He rolled her over and saw that she was not breathing.") So one could GUESS that he might have had blood on his clothing from moving Janet. And, we know there was blood on the interior of the side door and doorframe, downstairs, and, perhaps on the exterior of the Durango. If Rooster is to be believed, Raven himself deposited the blood on those locations when looking for a phone. But, regardless, that blood made it from the upstairs office/bedroom, downstairs, and outside, somehow....


I guess it opens a question for me too though - in a case that's largely circumstantial, what does it take for a DA to feel confident enough in the CE evidence to give LE the go ahead for an arrest, etc.? Is it the AMOUNT of CE?
Wasn't there also blood on the wall leading out to the back door? He also is said to have found Janet on her knees, so this information on he turned her over, is strange to me.

He also led Police to believe she was "hurt" and that she may still be alive. We heard that he told people she was warm still and we heard that he told others she was cold.

These conflicting stories are of interest to me, because it seems the stories change with whomever he speaks to.

JG you are correct he told someone he had to leave early because he had a "strange feeling."

[JerseyGirl]

I'm just curious about the 3 different stories that we've heard regarding Raven's interaction with the body and the blood that evening:

1) That he turned her over.
2) That he tried to resuscitate her.
3) That he held her.

It's possible that he did any one or even all of these things. What I find most interesting, however, is that as far as I remember, these three scenarios were allegedly told to different people at different times. It's clearly circumstantial at best but it made me wonder if there were so many different versions because he wasn't exactly sure what investigators could determine by looking at his clothes, and he wanted to have an answer for whatever blood patterns they might find.

[JerseyGirl]

Term, I don't recall blood on the wall leading to the back door. Might you be thinking of the blood on the wall of the office (extra bedroom) where Janet was found?

[terminatrixator]

Let me relook at the Police report again and I'll try to provide a link, I could be mistaken but I thought it said back door.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Let me relook at the Police report again and I'll try to provide a link, I could be mistaken but I thought it said back door.
Per the warrant, there were swabbings taken from the INTERIOR side storm door, and the INTERIOR side door frame. (items #17, #18)

And in the narrative, on the warrant, from Investigator Early, it is noted that "there was stains on the walls of the bedroom, and there was blood stains near the side door of the residence, located on the South side."

[JerseyGirl]

And in the narrative, on the warrant, from Investigator Early, it is noted that "there was stains on the walls of the bedroom, and there was blood stains near the side door of the residence, located on the South side."Okay, bad grammar aside, what does THAT mean??? How exactly does one define "near"?

[SouthEastSleuth]

Okay, bad grammar aside, what does THAT mean??? How exactly does one define "near"?

Perhaps I shouldn't assume, but I guess I always as