...the case of the purloined PDA...

[cappuccina]

OK...this sounds "far out", but stay with me for a minute on this, folks...

Suppose right after Janet's murder Raven "cleaned up" and sold his old PDA, and soon after bought another one, onto which he transferred some of his "old" but nonincriminating info....Sound crazy? It may not be....While surfing the web for more "pocketpcguy"-related items, I came across this site:

pdaPhoneHome.com

http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=590266

(threads where he announces he is selling his PDA, and ins interested in buying 2 more...)


"pocket pcguy", who registered on May7, 2005, immediately posts that he is selling his PDA, and is also very interesting in buying two other used ones 4-5 days later...

The person buying his PDA would probably not connect it with this case because of the dismal lack of media coverage, especially if they were in another part of the country. Also, Raven would probably figure that he could get away with this, since the transactions would have occurred soon after the murder, and the police, not realizing what he was up to, would have a hard time tracking all of this down, or would not even realize that this was not his original PDA...

(...perhaps he did this type of "cleanup" with his other computers as well...)

[PrayersForMaura]

OK...this sounds "far out", but stay with me for a minute on this, folks...

Suppose right after Janet's murder Raven "cleaned up" and sold his old PDA, and soon after bought another one, onto which he transferred some of his "old" but nonincriminating info....Sound crazy? It may not be....While surfing the web for more "pocketpcguy"-related items, I came across this site:

pdaPhoneHome.com

http://pdaphonehome.com/forums/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=590266

(threads where he announces he is selling his PDA, and ins interested in buying 2 more...)


"pocket pcguy", who registered on May7, 2005, immediately posts that he is selling his PDA, and is also very interesting in buying two other used ones 4-5 days later...

The person buying his PDA would probably not connect it with this case because of the dismal lack of media coverage, especially if they were in another part of the country. Also, Raven would probably figure that he could get away with this, since the transactions would have occurred soon after the murder, and the police, not realizing what he was up to, would have a hard time tracking all of this down, or would not even realize that this was not his original PDA...

(...perhaps he did this type of "cleanup" with his other computers as well...)
this is a GREAT find. Please, send to the tips email for LE or have golfmom do it!! We need to track down the buyer!

[newkid]

It would be a good way to get rid of it. However, because of the ebay references I didn't think it was him on that site. The ebay auction referenced http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5772899143 shows the seller to be registered since 1999 with perfect feedback and located in NY. He/she also buys and sells all kinds of this type of stuff.

He may be craftier than I thought though and I just bought into a bunch of lies.

[cappuccina]

...yeah, it probably is not him, but, the idea is intruiging...

[SouthEastSleuth]

I was looking at these pocketpcguy searches just the other day. To be honest, as weird as it may sound, I'm not convinced that the person who posts of those PDA thread, or, on those geocaching threads, is indeed OUR pocketpcguy.

If you look at those threads, some are signed with the user calling himself "Brian." And some others on different boards, with a user signing posts as "Ed" (this was on some TiVo board I think). And I remember on one of those boards the member gave his location as Hawaii I think.

So, it may be POSSIBLE that there are people with the "pocketpcguy" user name, that have no real affiliation with pocketpcguy.com

I know it might all seem too coincidental... Just my thoughts...

(Of course, with all of the other names associated with Raven, he might also be known to some as "Brian" or "Ed", and could have easily fabricated a life in Hawaii!)

[PrayersForMaura]

I was looking at these pocketpcguy searches just the other day. To be honest, as weird as it may sound, I'm not convinced that the person who posts of those PDA thread, or, on those geocaching threads, is indeed OUR pocketpcguy.

If you look at those threads, some are signed with the user calling himself "Brian." And some others on different boards, with a user signing posts as "Ed" (this was on some TiVo board I think). And I remember on one of those boards the member gave his location as Hawaii I think.

So, it may be POSSIBLE that there are people with the "pocketpcguy" user name, that have no real affiliation with pocketpcguy.com

I know it might all seem too coincidental... Just my thoughts...

(Of course, with all of the other names associated with Raven, he might also be known to some as "Brian" or "Ed", and could have easily fabricated a life in Hawaii!)Yeah but the timing of those posts seem so close to the days after Janet died :(

Edited to add: and to the days when we all started the heavy duty sleuthing here to get this case as its own forum... (and Ibet he reads here too)

[newkid]

The geocaching guy also refers to his wife Karen and names a nephew and a goddaughter. I don't think Raven is organized enough to keep up with multiple lives though he does state on his VX boards that he travels a lot for work.

[golfmom]

The geocaching guy also refers to his wife Karen and names a nephew and a goddaughter. I don't think Raven is organized enough to keep up with multiple lives though he does state on his VX boards that he travels a lot for work.

I never did find any confirmation one way or another, but it looked like an interest that would appeal to both Janet and Raven ... the mountain bikes; pictures of them hiking; off-road vehicles, etc.

[newkid]

Huh, I just noticed that the post on the geocaching board http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=0a710e76-b1a0-4057-8f8f-578d682dc063&log=y&decrypt= also has a link for that pocketpcguy's website. It's http://www.destroyerworld.com/

He also has pictures posted of him and his bird http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?IID=33779453-4e46-422c-8f16-5029824a0d8a&LID=179126

After thinking about this, you guys have probably already seen this, forgive me if I'm restating information.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Huh, I just noticed that the post on the geocaching board http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=0a710e76-b1a0-4057-8f8f-578d682dc063&log=y&decrypt= also has a link for that pocketpcguy's website. It's http://www.destroyerworld.com/

He also has pictures posted of him and his bird http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?IID=33779453-4e46-422c-8f16-5029824a0d8a&LID=179126

After thinking about this, you guys have probably already seen this, forgive me if I'm restating information.
Good find newkid. I, for one, had NOT seen the post with a picture of the guy. I really do think we can rule out an connection to the geocaching thing at least..

[golfmom]

Excellent job! We can check that off the list of possible areas to investigate!
:blowkiss:

[JerseyGirl]

"pocket pcguy", who registered on May7, 2005, immediately posts that he is selling his PDA, and is also very interesting in buying two other used ones 4-5 days later...WHAT??? I wonder if LE knew that he still had an old PDA??? So he's been online adding friends at MySpace, selling & buying PDA's ... wouldn't LE have asked about the PDA? Wouldn't they have advised him to turn it in should it reappear?

[golfmom]

WHAT??? I wonder if LE knew that he still had an old PDA??? So he's been online adding friends at MySpace, selling & buying PDA's ... wouldn't LE have asked about the PDA? Wouldn't they have advised him to turn it in should it reappear?

This has not been absolutely confirmed as Raven. The ebay link shows a guy that it looks like has no connection to Raven.

[JerseyGirl]

Also, Raven would probably figure that he could get away with this, since the transactions would have occurred soon after the murder, and the police, not realizing what he was up to, would have a hard time tracking all of this down, or would not even realize that this was not his original PDA...Especially since if he bought used ones, there would be older files on there to prove that it isn't brand new so as not to throw up red flags.

[JerseyGirl]

So, it may be POSSIBLE that there are people with the "pocketpcguy" user name, that have no real affiliation with pocketpcguy.comDarn, I was so excited over this find!

[JerseyGirl]

Good find newkid. I, for one, had NOT seen the post with a picture of the guy. I really do think we can rule out an connection to the geocaching thing at least..I'm missing something. Didn't we find posts by Raven in that geocaching site? Or was that pocketpcguy that's in this link? Are we sure that Raven wasn't a part of this?

[ewwwinteresting]

I'm missing something. Didn't we find posts by Raven in that geocaching site? Or was that pocketpcguy that's in this link? Are we sure that Raven wasn't a part of this?
The only similiarity I see is is email address on Raven's website pocketpcguy:

raven.abaroa@gmail.com and the email of pocketpcguy@gmail.com.

What is gmail.com?

[SouthEastSleuth]

The only similiarity I see is is email address on Raven's website pocketpcguy:

raven.abaroa@gmail.com and the email of pocketpcguy@gmail.com.

What is gmail.com?
Google's relatively new email service. SOMEWHAT like yahoo or hotmail.

[ewwwinteresting]

Google's relatively new email service. SOMEWHAT like yahoo or hotmail.
So, it could be the same guy or completely different people using the same email service and just a coincidence in names?

[golfmom]

I'm missing something. Didn't we find posts by Raven in that geocaching site? Or was that pocketpcguy that's in this link? Are we sure that Raven wasn't a part of this?

Yes, but we had absolutely no proof-positive that it was Raven. It was completely unconfirmed.

We almost need to start a new system here since there is so much online information. Like if we know something as a fact we put CONFIRMED or UNCONFIRMED if we aren't 100% sure.

[ewwwinteresting]

Yes, but we had absolutely no proof-positive that it was Raven. It was completely unconfirmed.

We almost need to start a new system here since there is so much online information. Like if we know something as a fact we put CONFIRMED or UNCONFIRMED if we aren't 100% sure.
Good idea!

[golfmom]

Good idea!

This would let people know what items to work on too. If it's unconfirmed everyone can pitch in to help either confirm it or deny it!

[LvsAMystry]

I found that post about buying a new PDA the other day and though I struck gold also. I forget my steps, but I somehow managed to track that pocketpcguy to ebay (my heart rate went up further), but the ebay name was something completely different and the history was completely out of Jamestown, NY. Now, I don't know for sure that it's NOT him, but I'm inclined to think it isn't.

As an aside, there actually seems to be a few pocketpcguys. I believe Raven used his as PocketPCGuy, someone else has pocketpcguy, and another has PocketPcGuy, and so on... Of course, they all show up on the google search because it doesn't distinguish capitalizations as far as I can tell.

[cappuccina]

...the idea of a PDA or PC "sleight-of-hand" is NOT out of the realm of possibility for this dude...(So I am now only a demi-dumba$$, 'k?) :D

If I were the forensic computer jock assigned to this case, I would find out what brands of PC/laptop/PDA he purchased, and when, and from who...also, ANYTHING HE SOLD I would try to recover...

[JerseyGirl]

If I were the forensic computer jock assigned to this case, I would find out what brands of PC/laptop/PDA he purchased, and when, and from who...also, ANYTHING HE SOLD I would try to recover...I totally agree. Again, if LE did not collect any computers, why not? Were they told that they were lost, stolen, sold ... ? If so, wouldn't LE be sure to tell Raven to turn them over if they should happen to resurface? I wonder if it's his sister-in-law's computer he's using to surf MySpace. Or could it be his own laptop?

[Timex]

Just a question here...

How do you folks know for a fact that only one search warrant has been served? How do you know law enforcement hasnt checked computers, PDA's etc? Because only one has been released wouldnt lead me to think only one has been served.

[golfmom]

Just a question here...

How do you folks know for a fact that only one search warrant has been served? How do you know law enforcement hasnt checked computers, PDA's etc? Because only one has been released wouldnt lead me to think only one has been served.

We know for a fact that there have been TWO search warrants. But, there could easily have been more that were not released to the news.

[Timex]

So, the police could have the PDA and or computer or could have had them and returned them to him?

[golfmom]

So, the police could have the PDA and or computer or could have had them and returned them to him?

Absolutely!

[golfmom]

Timex this is from the news report of the 2nd search warrant.

DURHAM -- Police say a Durham woman found dead in her home last week was stabbed, and a search warrant indicates that investigators wanted to further examine the family's SUV to determine the vehicle's "relationship" to the homicide.
............

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:QmXHXgpF9lkJ:www.newsobserver.com/news/durham/story/2368794p-8746832c.html+abaroa+second+warrant&hl=en

[Timex]

I guess I would have to assume they have indeed done so. Unless we are talking a Barney Fife type investigator, I would think taking computers etc would be investigation 101. Either to eliminate or to incriminate.

[golfmom]

I guess I would have to assume they have indeed done so. Unless we are talking a Barney Fife type investigator, I would think taking computers etc would be investigation 101. Either to eliminate or to incriminate.

Yep. If they were accessible to LE I'm sure that they took them. If they weren't then where were they? That's why that the idea of a computer was stolen causes some excitability.

[SouthEastSleuth]

So, the police could have the PDA and or computer or could have had them and returned them to him?From my understanding (from reading the initial search warrant, and subsequently a news report that quotes the Durham Police Dept), the series of events is as follows:

1) Murder occurs sometime the evening of April 26
2) Search warrant #1, executed early morning of April 27
3) On Thursday, April 28, at some point LE interviews Raven. Based on that interview, they obtained a 2nd search warrant, that specified a search of the "vehicle" (presumably the Dodge Durango they had searched previously)..based on information obtained in the interview with Raven. (this is sited in the link below)

4) Same day, April 28, they search the "vehicle" again.
5) May 3rd. The initial search warrant is made public.
6) The copy of the 2nd warrant, we've never seen. Although, in the news article below, the DPD is quoted as saying it was for "the vehicle." Now, I don't know or not if it COULD have included other things, or not. No idea.

7) Have there been additional search warrants? No clue.

But keep in mind, we do have information (Mr. A posted, I THINK) that the house was ultimately cleared as a crime scene by LE, and that some people from the church came and cleaned. IT would be useful to know WHEN that happened.

I say that, because if they cleaned, etc., shortly after the 28th or so, it would not have left LE too much time to come out with another warrant..as potentially , there might not be anything there!

http://newsobserver.com/news/story/2368828p-8746832c.html

[golfmom]

I just see no evidence that a laptop was stolen. Then this would be a burglary gone bad and the public would be *at risk* and this would be considered a random crime. Ergo the statement by LE that this was not a random crime would make no sense.
:bang:

[Timex]

Again, I would have to assume if LE released the home, they must be confident they have collected any and all physical evidence from the home.

Is the assumption here law enforcement has dropped the ball on this case?

[SouthEastSleuth]

Again, I would have to assume if LE released the home, they must be confident they have collected any and all physical evidence from the home.

Is the assumption here law enforcement has dropped the ball on this case?
Or, perhaps the computers, PDA, etc., were NOT ON THE PREMISES???

Just a thought...

[golfmom]

Is the assumption here law enforcement has dropped the ball on this case?

I can't speak for anyone else, :cool: but I haven't jumped to that conclusion as of yet. I'm waiting on the crime lab results, as per the newscast interview the family did.

[Timex]

Or, perhaps the computers, PDA, etc., were NOT ON THE PREMISES???

Just a thought...


Thats my question...why are we assuming law enforcement doesnt have them? Or never had them? Have they made a statement saying such items were missing?

[golfmom]

Or, perhaps the computers, PDA, etc., were NOT ON THE PREMISES???

Just a thought...

LOL ... and I just caught my tail folks! If they weren't there, then where were they? and don't tell me they were stolen, because I don't believe that!
:croc:

[SouthEastSleuth]

Thats my question...why are we assuming law enforcement doesnt have them? Or never had them? Have they made a statement saying such items were missing?
I do see your point actually. I think we've based that assumption (gulp!) on the fact that there was no mention of those things on the RELEASED search warrant. And from what we know of the SECOND warrant, it was solely for the vehicle.

So, to think in your direction, yes, there would have to been an additional search warrant(s), at some point and time, that we don't know about!

BUT, if LE went back with a 2nd warrant that same week, one would hope they would have made it inclusive THEN for any additional items?? Again, I know, an assumption.

It just seems to me there becomes a timing issue... how long was the time from the 2nd warrant on April 28th, until the house was cleared by LE! THAT would be the timeframe for any potential additional warrants, for items at the house anyway.

[golfmom]

Thats my question...
1. why are we assuming law enforcement doesnt have them?
2. Or never had them?
3. Have they made a statement saying such items were missing?

1. we don't know
2. we don't know
3. no

But one of our members posted that a laptop was missing.

[Timex]

Since they listed the PDA charger on the warrant, I would assume they already had the PDA...but that's just me. Most times in cases like this, they don't release all of the warrant information.

[juliagoulia]

Since they listed the PDA charger on the warrant, I would assume they already had the PDA...but that's just me. Most times in cases like this, they don't release all of the warrant information.
That is my feeling as well. Perhaps they had to go back for the charger for practical reasons--they needed to charge it to keep going through it.

If there was blood spatter on the PDA, would LE have to get a warrant to take it? I don't understand the rules, but if it was direct evidence can't they bag it and take it from the scene?

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: Have they made a statement saying such items were missing?
You probably weren't trying to be funny, but when I read this it made me LOL! LE make a statement in this case? Yeah, right!:)

[golfmom]

I'm assuming the opposite after studying the search warrant. BUT I believe that there could have been lots more search warrants that they served that they did not release to the public.

So, it could be there or it could be missing :banghead: .

[ewwwinteresting]

I'm assuming the opposite after studying the search warrant. BUT I believe that there could have been lots more search warrants that they served that they did not release to the public.

So, it could be there or it could be missing :banghead: .
It's all summed up:

1. LE has the equipment (from a search warrant not released);
2. LE doesn't have the equipment; or
3. There was no equipment at the time LE arrived.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[SouthEastSleuth]

I just went back and PAINSTAKINGLY looked throught the original search warrant, AGAIN (UGH!).

If you'll remember, on each of the inventory of items pages, there are several things listed. And, the items are numbered. I was able to piece together the numbers from ones I could actually SEE, and then based on referece notes in the comments section.

The pages as WRAL posted them are actually out of order (as far as numeric sequence of items seized).

The item count goes up to # 54. Now, that said, there could have been additional pages not released.

BUT, if you look really closely, and keep tabs, you'll see the following:

Of the inventory pages- -

Page 1: Items 51-54
P2: Items 44-50
P3: Items 19-26
P4: Items 27-34
P5: Items 35-42
P6: Items 11-18
P7: Items 4-10
P8: Item 43

Stay with me a sec longer :)

SO, put them in order, and there are NO items 1-3.

Computers? PDA? Who knows.

But, Timex' point it well taken, as far as maybe everything was not released, or, that there have been additional search warrant(s).

The search warrant, as posted on WRAL: (there are 15 pages, the inventory begins on page 8)

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=1;w=800

[golfmom]

You know when I was retyping it for the Crime Scene Thread I noticed that they were out of order.

So, I put them in an order that made sense to me ... and didn't even notice that they were numbered.

Good catch! :woohoo:

[newkid]

SO, put them in order, and there are NO items 1-3.

Computers? PDA? Who knows.

But, Timex' point it well taken, as far as maybe everything was not released, or, that there have been additional search warrant(s).

The search warrant, as posted on WRAL: (there are 15 pages, the inventory begins on page 8)

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=1;w=800
Ah ha! Nice catch.

[ewwwinteresting]

SO, put them in order, and there are NO items 1-3.

Computers? PDA? Who knows.

But, Timex' point it well taken, as far as maybe everything was not released, or, that there have been additional search warrant(s).

The search warrant, as posted on WRAL: (there are 15 pages, the inventory begins on page 8)

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=1;w=800I wonder if LE meant to keep items 1-3 private and they didn't make that page public or if that page listing items 1-3 was missed by the press??

Also, I noticed that on the bottom right hand corner of page 15 there is some handwritting reflecting items 4-43 and 57 & 59???

[JerseyGirl]

Since they listed the PDA charger on the warrant, I would assume they already had the PDA...but that's just me. Most times in cases like this, they don't release all of the warrant information.I thought the PDA charger was on the first warrant. :waitasec:

[Jenifred]

I thought the PDA charger was on the first warrant. :waitasec:
Maybe we should call it the released warrant. Yes, the charger was there.

[Timex]

I thought the PDA charger was on the first warrant. :waitasec:

Correct...but they still could have had the computer and PDA. He could have allowed them to take them without a warrant, then they got the warrant to go back and get other things.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I'm STILL dwelling on this computer, PDA, laptop deal...

OK, so, even we assume that somehow LE did in fact take all of those items, either in the initial search warrant (maybe the missing items 1-3?), or, in some subsequent warrant, about which we have no specific knowledge, or, that Raven volunteered the items. Whatever...

I've been digging around to see what DOCUMENTED evidence we have, with regards to Raven being online, posting somewhere, anything.

April 25 was the big day - Ravenstree created. Blog updated (Interesting thing I noticed for the first time. At the bottom of the entry, it says it was posted on April 25, which was a Monday, 11:15AM. May mean nothing, but he had been working a new job, would be home at a Monday, at 11:15AM? Sure, he could be. And sure, he could be posting FROM a job. Just an observation really.)

But, then I was curious to see what, if anything, we had found with dates AFTER April 25. Documented dates. Because presumably, if LE had all the computers, etc., how COULD he be online, etc. (unless from someone else's computer, sure). At least until those items were released to him, at some point in time.

Low and behold, the very next Tuesday, May 3, 2005, we have documentation that at least someone, presumably Raven, had logged on to the MySpace account.

So - within the week of the murder, SOMEONE logged onto MySpace. And to log on, you obviously would need a computer or the PDA. UNLESS, you were logging on from someone's computer, which is certainly a possibility.

That said, does anyone know of any other DOCUMENTED online activity, SINCE the updates on April 25, 2005?

[Moxie]

I'm STILL dwelling on this computer, PDA, laptop deal...

OK, so, even we assume that somehow LE did in fact take all of those items, either in the initial search warrant (maybe the missing items 1-3?), or, in some subsequent warrant, about which we have no specific knowledge, or, that Raven volunteered the items. Whatever...

I've been digging around to see what DOCUMENTED evidence we have, with regards to Raven being online, posting somewhere, anything.

April 25 was the big day - Ravenstree created. Blog updated (Interesting thing I noticed for the first time. At the bottom of the entry, it says it was posted on April 25, which was a Monday, 11:15AM. May mean nothing, but he had been working a new job, would be home at a Monday, at 11:15AM? Sure, he could be. And sure, he could be posting FROM a job. Just an observation really.)

But, then I was curious to see what, if anything, we had found with dates AFTER April 25. Documented dates. Because presumably, if LE had all the computers, etc., how COULD he be online, etc. (unless from someone else's computer, sure). At least until those items were released to him, at some point in time.

Low and behold, the very next Tuesday, May 3, 2005, we have documentation that at least someone, presumably Raven, had logged on to the MySpace account.

So - within the week of the murder, SOMEONE logged onto MySpace. And to log on, you obviously would need a computer or the PDA. UNLESS, you were logging on from someone's computer, which is certainly a possibility.

That said, does anyone know of any other DOCUMENTED online activity, SINCE the updates on April 25, 2005?
I am sure there are other postings to documented online activity - I would just have to go through everything. SES - you are a great addition to our sleuthing team!!

[golfmom]

I was just struck by what a huge overkill it was to own a laptop, desktop, and pda.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I am sure there are other postings to documented online activity - I would just have to go through everything. SES - you are a great addition to our sleuthing team!!
The only documented piece of online activity I came across was the MySpace activity on May 3. If there are more, help me someone???

But regardless, the May 3rd activity does indeed show that Raven had online access from SOMEWHERE and from SOME piece of equipment...his or someone elses (well, for that matter you can go into the county library here and use the internet for free!)

[SouthEastSleuth]

The only documented piece of online activity I came across was the MySpace activity on May 3. If there are more, help me someone???

But regardless, the May 3rd activity does indeed show that Raven had online access from SOMEWHERE and from SOME piece of equipment...his or someone elses (well, for that matter you can go into the county library here and use the internet for free!)
Hold on. I need to clarify something here -

Yes, we have documentation where he logged in to MySpace, and I think even other sites, later in May, etc.

My thought is, in the days immediately following the murder...do we have documentation in that timeframe (other than May 3 MySpace).

My point in all that is, if LE TOOK the computers and the PDA, then any access in the days following the murder would be from non-personal owned computers, etc.

OR, I suppose you could also look at it and ASSUME that if Raven were still online and posting, etc., in the days shortly after April 25 (May 3rd, or even others??), then maybe LE did NOT take the computers and/or PDA...

[Timex]

I was just struck by what a huge overkill it was to own a laptop, desktop, and pda.

Honestly, by todays standards that really isnt overkill. Many households have multiple computers, cellphones, PDA's, etc. Especially younger households. I couldnt begin to tell you the number of junior high kids that have these things.

[golfmom]

Honestly, by todays standards that really isnt overkill. Many households have multiple computers, cellphones, PDA's, etc. Especially younger households. I couldnt begin to tell you the number of junior high kids that have these things.

I guess I'm getting old.
I don't have a computer for each child in their rooms. I don't even let them have a t.v. in their rooms.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Honestly, by todays standards that really isnt overkill. Many households have multiple computers, cellphones, PDA's, etc. Especially younger households. I couldnt begin to tell you the number of junior high kids that have these things.
Exactly! I think GM that these days, especially for technofiles, it's pretty darn common to have that exact deal - a desktop for home, a laptop for portability, and a web accessible PDA to even greater portability (Lord know, wouldn't want to miss an email or something while you're sitting on the toilet I guess!). I don't personally "get it", I mean think it's extreme really, but, it's really pretty common...

[cappuccina]

We do NOT even have a TV in our living room!

[newkid]

The only documented piece of online activity I came across was the MySpace activity on May 3. If there are more, help me someone???

But regardless, the May 3rd activity does indeed show that Raven had online access from SOMEWHERE and from SOME piece of equipment...his or someone elses (well, for that matter you can go into the county library here and use the internet for free!)
He did log on to myspace on May 26th. Someone (jesstexas I think) also posted on another thread that he logged onto his vehicross board on May 24th.

[Timex]

I guess I'm getting old.
I don't have a computer for each child in their rooms. I don't even let them have a t.v. in their rooms.


Thats what I mean...I know not everyone has all those items, but it isnt at all uncommon.

Our kids have their own computers, televisions, dvd players, portable dvd players, cell phones etc.

We have 6 televisions in our home, 4 computers...lost count of how many telephones there are.

Folks that really enjoy technology tend to be constantly obtaining some new piece of equipment.

[golfmom]

Folks that really enjoy technology tend to be constantly obtaining some new piece of equipment.

Don't get me started on the number of golf clubs around here ... so I got your point!

[Jenifred]

Let's remember that new blog entry "Til We Meet Again." That was listed, but never view-able.

[newkid]

I was just struck by what a huge overkill it was to own a laptop, desktop, and pda.
My husband is a total computer nerd. We have all that, his laptop and pda are work equipment though. He bought his old PDA from his work for me to use. My kids even have laptops (WAY old ones that my husbands work sold off) to play their games on.

[newkid]

Don't get me started on the number of golf clubs around here ... so I got your point!
Hey, we have those too. :D

[cappuccina]

...I'm a throwback to the 1940's or something...

What's interesting is that I've noticed lately that my kids are becoming real radio and "books on tape" buffs. We are lucky enough around here to be able to get some larger metro. area radio stations as well as Canadian stations that offer informational programs, stories on the air, sports programs, music programs, and the like... My daughter will listen to her books while she does her crafts...My son, the sports nut, listens to the 24-7 sports station...We also have shortwave; I listen to Radio Paris and Radio Brazil a lot, and the BBC when they aren't driving me nutz! Hubby the engineer andpart time mad inventor, listens to all of the household repair shows, and of course, Art Bell (woooooeeeeee)...

I find radio takes my mind off even the worst household jobs that I am doing!

OK I'm off topic, and am signing off now, to go do my housework in the 90 degree heat...

Before I go...Golfmom...wanna trade some golf clubs for some hockey stix? LOL

[family_friend]

R.I.P Janet.. I only pray to my heavenly father that the person or people responsible for this selfish crime be punished to the FULL extent of the law.... Raven I have no doubt that your reading this. I have seen your reaction at the memorial and I have looked you in your eyes while giving you my condolences while having to bite my lip from saying what I feel. I can see thru your eyes into your soul. May God have mercy on your soul.

[SouthEastSleuth]

R.I.P Janet.. I only pray to my heavenly father that the person or people responsible for this selfish crime be punished to the FULL extent of the law.... Raven I have no doubt that your reading this. I have seen your reaction at the memorial and I have looked you in your eyes while giving you my condolences while having to bite my lip from saying what I feel. I can see thru your eyes into your soul. May God have mercy on your soul.
Powerful and heartfelt word Family_Friend. You certainly have my condolences. I hope as you read these any posts, even if they are upsetting at times, you know that we are searching for "person or people responsible for this selfish crime", or at least trying to get to the bottom of what happened that horrible night. So we are right there with you. Be strong, and if ever you have any additional insights to share, about Janet, about Raven, whatever, please, feel free...

Thanks for posting!

[golfmom]

Family_Friend, welcome to WS. I am so sorry for your loss.

[Thinkoflaura]

Is it possible or at all likely that the guy whose photo is on the geo-- site with the PDAs for sale could be Raven's step-father?
The man says his wife's name is KAREN. I know it's a common name- but with the pocketPCguy screen name, maybe there is something to this... The man appears to be about the same age as Raven's mother, as shown in her work photo.

I have always thought that Raven's side of the family " networks", to put it in simple terms. :)

[JerseyGirl]

Also, I noticed that on the bottom right hand corner of page 15 there is some handwritting reflecting items 4-43 and 57 & 59???So the last item that we see listed is not the last item actually collected. There could be many things that were collected that weren't in the search warrant that was released. What was collected, and how many items, that we're not allowed to see? And the bigger question is why?

[PrayersForMaura]

Honestly, by todays standards that really isnt overkill. Many households have multiple computers, cellphones, PDA's, etc. Especially younger households. I couldnt begin to tell you the number of junior high kids that have these things.I agree... I have a desktop computer, a laptop, two printers, a cell phone with text messaging, and lots of gaming and accesories. I am a single female in my 30s... so you can't even really put an age on it... kids, teens, 20s, 30s and even people in their 40s and 50s have multiple gadgets. It's a very technologically advanced time in society right now.

[JerseyGirl]

Low and behold, the very next Tuesday, May 3, 2005, we have documentation that at least someone, presumably Raven, had logged on to the MySpace account.I have to admit that I find it very disturbing that he was back at MySpace only one week after Janet's death. He found out late Tuesday night the week before, almost early Wednesday morning so it's more like 6 days after her death. And on what date was the funeral? How many days between the funeral and him hopping back online to MySpace? And then he adds new friends ... it's just very bizarre.

I agree, SES. It would be great to know exactly how soon after her death he was online, where, and what he was doing. Unfortunately, we can probably only see last log-in date, if that at some sites. I don't think that we'll be able to determine anything other than that.

[JerseyGirl]

R.I.P Janet.. I only pray to my heavenly father that the person or people responsible for this selfish crime be punished to the FULL extent of the law.... Raven I have no doubt that your reading this. I have seen your reaction at the memorial and I have looked you in your eyes while giving you my condolences while having to bite my lip from saying what I feel. I can see thru your eyes into your soul. May God have mercy on your soul.I am so very sorry, family_friend. Our prayers are with all of you that are experiencing the loss of Janet first-hand.

[PrayersForMaura]

has anyone been able to locate any other search warrant documents? I am trying to catch up to all the posts from yesterday. Man, there's been a flurry of activity in this forum ... that's good! I just can't keep up!

Has anyone emailed the lead detective about search warrants? Would he be able to tell us how many there were or what else was taken?

[newkid]

Is it possible or at all likely that the guy whose photo is on the geo-- site with the PDAs for sale could be Raven's step-father?
The man says his wife's name is KAREN. I know it's a common name- but with the pocketPCguy screen name, maybe there is something to this... The man appears to be about the same age as Raven's mother, as shown in her work photo.

I have always thought that Raven's side of the family " networks", to put it in simple terms. :)
I don't think so but I can find out. I know some people that live near his parents that will know what the stepfather looks like.

[cappuccina]

Originally Posted by family_friend:

R.I.P Janet.. I only pray to my heavenly father that the person or people responsible for this selfish crime be punished to the FULL extent of the law.... Raven I have no doubt that your reading this. I have seen your reaction at the memorial and I have looked you in your eyes while giving you my condolences while having to bite my lip from saying what I feel. I can see thru your eyes into your soul. May God have mercy on your soul.

family_friend - I am so sorry for your loss, and I pray that law enforcement will SOON have the courage to "do the right thing" in this case...

[ewwwinteresting]

Originally Posted by family_friend:

R.I.P Janet.. I only pray to my heavenly father that the person or people responsible for this selfish crime be punished to the FULL extent of the law.... Raven I have no doubt that your reading this. I have seen your reaction at the memorial and I have looked you in your eyes while giving you my condolences while having to bite my lip from saying what I feel. I can see thru your eyes into your soul. May God have mercy on your soul.

family_friend - I am so sorry for your loss, and I pray that law enforcement will SOON have the courage to "do the right thing" in this case...
or better yet, the murderer to come forward and "do the right thing" and account for his/her actions......bringing at least some kind of closure to this family!

[cappuccina]

....that's why I'm praying that LE will get organized and "step in"...I, for one, believe they could probably do so; people have been arrested (and more!) on less evidence, and in cases much more circumstantial than this one, IMO...

(the infamous Shepard case comes to mind, as does the murder of Helle Craft...)

[ewwwinteresting]

....that's why I'm praying that LE will get organized and "step in"...I, for one, believe they could probably do so; people have been arrested (and more!) on less evidence, and in cases much more circumstantial than this one, IMO...

(the infamous Shepard case comes to mind, as does the murder of Helle Craft...)
Hmmmm..............let me throw this out. :waitasec: What if LE has enough evidence (circumstantial or whatever) for 2nd degree murder (crime of passion or something like that)....but..........what a 1st degree charge and are working that angle (planned murder)???? Any thoughts?

[cappuccina]

...and I will use a REAL-LIFE case to illustrate this: The rule of thumb is to generally pick the charge that is a "shoe-in" even if you have to "drop down" a level....Any good LE or prosecutor will tell you this...

Here's my case...One of my husband's best friends was stabbed to death by his wife...Kind of like the Abaroa case, except it was one fatal stab to the heart...long story short...They wanted to charge her with second degree murder because there was somewhat of a history of domestic violence where SHE was the perp. Problem was, the police thought his calls to them were humourous, and did not arrest her, take her in for 24 hours, nor did they do anything they would have done in a normal doemstic violence case.

She had also said to several people upon occasion that if she ever caught him having an affair, she would kill him. (Ironically, she killed him thinking he was having an affair, and in reality, he was working long hours just like he said he was).

She got a stiff sentence, but she was convicted of MANSLAUGHTER and ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON, because the evidence was the strongest for these. She got 25 years, and since she went in at 55, she may die in there. The prosecutor thought this was better than her possibly getting off on the seond-degree charge due to some "reasonable doubt" issues there...

I, for one, believe that the Abaroa case is probably a true "second degree murder" case...but, even if the perp. could get the max. sentence for the most serious type of manslaughter instead, this is better than LE "doing a Ramsey" and giving the murderer a PASS, IMO...

[ewwwinteresting]

...and I will use a REAL-LIFE case to illustrate this: The rule of thumb is to generally pick the charge that is a "shoe-in" even if you have to "drop down" a level....Any good LE or prosecutor will tell you this...

I, for one, believe that the Abaroa case is probably a true "second degree murder" case...but, even if the perp. could get the max. sentence for the most serious type of manslaughter instead, this is better than LE "doing a Ramsey" and giving the murderer a PASS, IMO...
IF you can drop down a charge, can you change the charge upward....like manslaughter or 2nd degree to 1st degree?

[cappuccina]

...you're going for second degree murder, becasue that's the best you can do under the circumstances, and then, before trial, e.g., a diary or "hit list" is discovered that names the victim, and details about the murder that will soon occur...This would then "upgrade" the charge to first degree murder, if the diary is linked to the alleged murderer...I'm giving an overly simplistic example, but you get the idea...Generally, though, everyone tries to "get on the same page" as fast as possible, and stays there unless something new is found, or something already found is investigated further...

[ewwwinteresting]

...you're going for second degree murder, becasue that's the best you can do under the circumstances, and then, before trial, e.g., a diary or "hit list" is discovered that names the victim, and details about the murder that will soon occur...This would then "upgrade" the charge to first degree murder, if the diary is linked to the alleged murderer...I'm giving an overly simplistic example, but you get the idea...Generally, though, everyone tries to "get on the same page" as fast as possible, and stays there unless something new is found, or something already found is investigated further...
So, if LE has enough evidence for manslaughter, there would be no reason to delay the arrest of the suspect....since if any new evidence is found in the next 2 or 3 weeks or whatever, they could up the charge, right???

[cappuccina]

EXACTAMENTE, EI!!!!!!!!!!!![/SIZE][/COLOR]

Here is a useful site that details some of this...

http://www.worldlawdirect.com/article/962/How_a_crime_is_prosecuted.html

[ewwwinteresting]

Getting back to the subject of this thread:)........I noticed that someone thought Raven may have pawned his PDA (along with his computers, etc).....BUT wouldn't the PDA charger go with the PDA? So, if the PDA charger was taken from the house that morning, he couldn't have pawned the PDA, right?

[helloyellow]

Getting back to the subject of this thread:)........I noticed that someone thought Raven may have pawned his PDA (along with his computers, etc).....BUT wouldn't the PDA charger go with the PDA? So, if the PDA charger was taken from the house that morning, he couldn't have pawned the PDA, right?
I think that it would probably be safe to say that Raven did not pawn anything that meant as much to him as his pda. This statement is probably true for any computer or accessories of his. JMO

[ewwwinteresting]

I think that it would probably be safe to say that Raven did not pawn anything that meant as much to him as his pda. This statement is probably true for any computer or accessories of his. JMO
Let's say he didn't pawn any computers or PDA (which you are probably right, imo), what was on that pawn ticket? Anybody call the pawn shops today?:)
I'm thinking you probably wouldn't be given any information anyway....there is that privacy act, going around!:silenced:

[ewwwinteresting]

Help me out here those of you who have pawned stuff or know of someone.

When you pawn an item, is the idea to obtain cash fast? And then have the possibility to return when you have more money and purchase it back? How long do they "hold" your item before they place it on display for sale?

[Timex]

Help me out here those of you who have pawned stuff or know of someone.

When you pawn an item, is the idea to obtain cash fast? And then have the possibility to return when you have more money and purchase it back? How long do they "hold" your item before they place it on display for sale?


Around here they give you 60 days. Its fast money, but you get very little.
We pawned a gun once. Was a hunting rifle of some type, sorry, dont remember the specifics, only fired once or twice...got $30.00 for it.

[ewwwinteresting]

Around here they give you 60 days. Its fast money, but you get very little.
We pawned a gun once. Was a hunting rifle of some type, sorry, dont remember the specifics, only fired once or twice...got $30.00 for it.
Ewww.....$30.00:dance:

I can't imagine Raven being so desperate that he pawned something....I mean, he certainly knew how to sell something quick on ebay for money. My thinking is that he pawned something to later go back and get, but what? Was it something he was trying to hide?

[juliagoulia]

Ewww.....$30.00:dance:

I can't imagine Raven being so desperate that he pawned something....I mean, he certainly knew how to sell something quick on ebay for money. My thinking is that he pawned something to later go back and get, but what? Was it something he was trying to hide?
Perhaps he was E-bay shy due to his Eurosport crime?

[Rooster]

I don't think so but I can find out. I know some people that live near his parents that will know what the stepfather looks like.
CONFIRMED. This is NOT Raven's step-Father.

[newkid]

CONFIRMED. This is NOT Raven's step-Father.


Thanks

[ewwwinteresting]

Perhaps he was E-bay shy due to his Eurosport crime?
Aren't there other ways to sell online besides ebay? Oh, I hope so, otherwise I'm kicking myself for not buying ebay stock!!!

[JerseyGirl]

Let's say he didn't pawn any computers or PDA (which you are probably right, imo), what was on that pawn ticket? Anybody call the pawn shops today?:)
I'm thinking you probably wouldn't be given any information anyway....there is that privacy act, going around!:silenced:I don't think that the privacy act would apply to pawn shops, would it? I thought it was just a medical issue. I'm thinking that whether or not we can get any info might depend on who answers the phone. I imagine that that's how media digs up their stuff - they find out that there was a pawn ticket, and they pester the place to give up some information. Who here's a good pesterer?

[Jenifred]

I don't think that the privacy act would apply to pawn shops, would it? I thought it was just a medical issue. I'm thinking that whether or not we can get any info might depend on who answers the phone. I imagine that that's how media digs up their stuff - they find out that there was a pawn ticket, and they pester the place to give up some information. Who here's a good pesterer?I forget, was there a ticket number?

Yes, it's 813953.

[JerseyGirl]

Is there anyone brave enough to call? I, myself, am not. :chicken: :chicken: :chicken:

[Jenifred]

Come on! Someone, just call! I'd do it, but the call would cost $$$ from overseas!

[Jenifred]

Where's NCBanker?--he's got some cahonies!

[cappuccina]

...he would do this with finesse...

[Jesstexas]

We don't even know for sure if the item pawned was pawned by Raven. Janet may have been the pawner.

[Jenifred]

Then we could figure that out, right?

[JerseyGirl]

I think it'd still be quite interesting to know what the item was, regardless of who pawned it. And since Janet and Raven were said to have separate vehicles, I'd be more inclined to believe that the pawn ticket was Raven's. We couldn't know for sure but it's worth tossing it around a bit, IMO.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I think it'd still be quite interesting to know what the item was, regardless of who pawned it. And since Janet and Raven were said to have separate vehicles, I'd be more inclined to believe that the pawn ticket was Raven's. We couldn't know for sure but it's worth tossing it around a bit, IMO.
Ok, so in the spirit of trying to shed a little light on the whole pawn ticket situation - I just called all three branches of National Jewelry and Pawn in Durham. (Simply put, I asked if it were possible to look up a particular number on a pawn ticket, and to tell me about the item..)

Branch #1 (closest to Ferrand Drive) - The Manager: "Look, I don't know what you're up to, but I ain't tellin' you sh##. We don't release anything except to the police with an order." (Click) And such a pleasant fellow he was...and I was so looking forward to more witty repartee with him.... sigh.

Branch #2 - A clerk: "You need to talk to the manager. He's not here. You a cop?" Nope, not "a cop." End of conversation.

Branch #3 - The Manager: "That information is confidential. Is this about something that was stolen or something? Doesn't really matter even. We can only release that kind of information to the police." Me: "Ok, well can you tell me this...have the police asked about this particular pawn ticket?" Manager: "Yo, who is this? I know lots of police that I can call right now." Me: "you know, somehow I just bet you do. Goodbye."

Ok, that was all dramatic, but I swear it was only good for a laugh or two (or three or four for that matter).

Bottom line: They "ain't tellin' <us> sh##" about that pawn ticket.

Back to the drawing board....

[golfmom]

WOW ... I never realized there was such a strict confidentiality on pawned items. They just treated you like you were attempting an armed robbery of their facilities.

What if you were interested in buy the said item as a gift to return it to the person who pawned it?

[newkid]

Well, thanks for trying. They've probably already been warned off talking to anyone by the police.

Your transcript made me laugh though.:laugh:

[ewwwinteresting]

WOW ... I never realized there was such a strict confidentiality on pawned items. They just treated you like you were attempting an armed robbery of their facilities.

What if you were interested in buy the said item as a gift to return it to the person who pawned it?
Go ahead, GM, call and tell them that's what you want to do :)

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Bottom line: They "ain't tellin' <us> sh##" about that pawn ticket.
Thanks for the much needed ROFLOL SES!

[Timex]

Go ahead, GM, call and tell them that's what you want to do :)

How would you know to buy the item back if you didnt even know what the item was?

[golfmom]

How would you know to buy the item back if you didnt even know what the item was?

No clue, but it sounded like a good cover story to me.

[Jenifred]

Bottom line: They "ain't tellin' <us> sh##" about that pawn ticket.

Back to the drawing board....
Thank you SES! At least it was worth a try. Wonder what would have happened if you said you were the cops? Wanna try back? SOOO just kidding!

Thank you a million times over. You've got some cahonies.

[PrayersForMaura]

Ok, so in the spirit of trying to shed a little light on the whole pawn ticket situation - I just called all three branches of National Jewelry and Pawn in Durham. (Simply put, I asked if it were possible to look up a particular number on a pawn ticket, and to tell me about the item..)

Branch #1 (closest to Ferrand Drive) - The Manager: "Look, I don't know what you're up to, but I ain't tellin' you sh##. We don't release anything except to the police with an order." (Click) And such a pleasant fellow he was...and I was so looking forward to more witty repartee with him.... sigh.

Branch #2 - A clerk: "You need to talk to the manager. He's not here. You a cop?" Nope, not "a cop." End of conversation.

Branch #3 - The Manager: "That information is confidential. Is this about something that was stolen or something? Doesn't really matter even. We can only release that kind of information to the police." Me: "Ok, well can you tell me this...have the police asked about this particular pawn ticket?" Manager: "Yo, who is this? I know lots of police that I can call right now." Me: "you know, somehow I just bet you do. Goodbye."

Ok, that was all dramatic, but I swear it was only good for a laugh or two (or three or four for that matter).

Bottom line: They "ain't tellin' <us> sh##" about that pawn ticket.

Back to the drawing board....

i don't know how i missed this post, but this cracked me up!!! :crazy:
LMAO

[Rooster]

Ok, so in the spirit of trying to shed a little light on the whole pawn ticket situation - I just called all three branches of National Jewelry and Pawn in Durham. (Simply put, I asked if it were possible to look up a particular number on a pawn ticket, and to tell me about the item..)

Branch #1 (closest to Ferrand Drive) - The Manager: "Look, I don't know what you're up to, but I ain't tellin' you sh##. We don't release anything except to the police with an order." (Click) And such a pleasant fellow he was...and I was so looking forward to more witty repartee with him.... sigh.

Branch #2 - A clerk: "You need to talk to the manager. He's not here. You a cop?" Nope, not "a cop." End of conversation.

Branch #3 - The Manager: "That information is confidential. Is this about something that was stolen or something? Doesn't really matter even. We can only release that kind of information to the police." Me: "Ok, well can you tell me this...have the police asked about this particular pawn ticket?" Manager: "Yo, who is this? I know lots of police that I can call right now." Me: "you know, somehow I just bet you do. Goodbye."

Ok, that was all dramatic, but I swear it was only good for a laugh or two (or three or four for that matter).

Bottom line: They "ain't tellin' <us> sh##" about that pawn ticket.

Back to the drawing board....
Thanks for calling and for the much needed laugh. :)

[cappuccina]

...thanks for doing this and reporting on it; we needed this humor today!

[lauriej]

Ok, so in the spirit of trying to shed a little light on the whole pawn ticket situation - I just called all three branches of National Jewelry and Pawn in Durham. (Simply put, I asked if it were possible to look up a particular number on a pawn ticket, and to tell me about the item..)

Branch #1 (closest to Ferrand Drive) - The Manager: "Look, I don't know what you're up to, but I ain't tellin' you sh##. We don't release anything except to the police with an order." (Click) And such a pleasant fellow he was...and I was so looking forward to more witty repartee with him.... sigh.

Branch #2 - A clerk: "You need to talk to the manager. He's not here. You a cop?" Nope, not "a cop." End of conversation.

Branch #3 - The Manager: "That information is confidential. Is this about something that was stolen or something? Doesn't really matter even. We can only release that kind of information to the police." Me: "Ok, well can you tell me this...have the police asked about this particular pawn ticket?" Manager: "Yo, who is this? I know lots of police that I can call right now." Me: "you know, somehow I just bet you do. Goodbye."

Ok, that was all dramatic, but I swear it was only good for a laugh or two (or three or four for that matter).

Bottom line: They "ain't tellin' <us> sh##" about that pawn ticket.

Back to the drawing board....
.........i give you a TON of credit for calling............( and when i saw your earlier post with the numbers i knew you would............)

....credit to you also , ( as i speed read the posts i've missed ) for calling the state forensics lab.............

....and you're going to the courthouse on friday as well ?????

...if i was anywhere close, i swear i'd be there with you....

[ewwwinteresting]

I guess with the new $500 cell phone, no need to wonder what was pawned. Hmmm....wonder if he was able to buy back whatever it was with his trust fund money??