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Kaly
06-06-2005, 05:13 PM
I stumbled across this long article here in this forum, about Pardo and thought I would bump it. It really is a classic and someone ought to archive it before it disappears. (I would, but I'm not organized and I lose everything).

http://www.dallasobserver.com/issue...ws/feature.html (http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/1998-08-06/news/feature.html)

It mentions Pardo tried to use Reverse Speech (http://www.*************.com (http://www.*************.com/)) in his investigations into the Routier crime. I used to know David Oates pretty well (who discovered RS) and am in renewed contact with him now. I believe he visited Dallas during this time and helped Pardo. I'm trying to find out more, like what their actual results were.

I did know a guy in Texas back in 1997 who was very good at Reverse Speech and he analyzed the 911 call. The results emotionally upset him so much, for so long, that I believe it caused him to quit doing reversals. I imagine it made Darlie look very guilty, if you believed in RS. It's too bad that he dropped out of sight, because he was very good at it. (Darn, I cannot remember his name, but Oates would probably remember him). If I can track him down some day, I will, and get his Darlie results.

This same guy had also analyzed a voice mail tape for me left by my brother who was missing at the time. It was awesome. You could very easily hear my brother talking about heavy drug use in the backwards. I did confirm later that he was missing because of heavy drug use. I wish I still had that documentation with the audio clips, but I don't.

If you are further interested in RS, check out these two other sites:

http://www.soulsay.com (http://www.soulsay.com/) - this guys gets really long reversals!
http://www.yourinnervoice.com (http://www.yourinnervoice.com/) - John Kelly is on radio shows with his work.
http://www.backwardmessages.com

Kaly
06-06-2005, 05:23 PM
From http://www.*************.com/dallas.htm (http://www.*************.com/dallas.htm)

Monday, June 19, 1989



BACK TALK FROM THE OUTBACK
Researcher finds subconscious ideas in Reverse Speech.
By Ann Zimmerman of the Times Herald Staff

Talking to David Oates is a little creepy. Because if what he says is true, then by reversing your speech, he can discover your innermost thoughts, your deepest feelings, the unadulterated truths the subconscious mind tries to keep buried.

But don't go reversing the above sentance to try and find out what I really think about David Oates, a former Australian insurance executive and youth worker who has been investigating reverse speech for the past five years.

It doesn't work like that. According to Oates, who gave his first United States seminar on reverse speech this weekend in Dallas, reverse phrases are automatically produced by the subconscious about once every 20 seconds and are made up of the phonetic structure, cadences, pauses, syntax and emotion contained within forward speech. In fact, same sentences uttered by two different people would not contain the same messages when played in reverse.

As the 34-year-old Aussie is quick to point out, people have claimed to hear backward messages in rock 'n' roll music for years. Called backward masking, Oates says that many of those messages are not actually speech reversals, but messages that were recorded separately, then intentionally placed on the record to be heard backward. But his theory, he says, may explain why people have picked up phrases even in those songs where messages weren't specially inserted.

Oates is either this year's super snake-oil salesman or he is really on to something. And if you are skeptical, he understands. So was he, at first. Allegedly the only person in the world researching and using reverse speech, Oates began his research when a troubled youth he was counseling asked him what he thought about the backward messages in rock 'n' roll music.

An electronics buff, Oates looked into it, using a broken tape recorder that only played backward. He was intrigued by the messages he thought he heard. For the next four years, it became an obsession.

"My initial concern was that it was all in my imagination, like the pictures you see in inkblots," he says. "I was wondering whether I was going insane or whether this was truly a unique discovery. It took me two years to be convinced that it was real. I found that the reversals occur regularly and that they were always related to forward speech, either adding to it or contradicting it. After recording different people, I found that their reverses revealed what people were actually thinking and feeling. How can that be a coincidence? I picked up names of family members and friends, things they had done in the past. Things I couldn't have known otherwise."



EDITED BY DP TO COMPLY WITH TOS REGARDING COPYRIGHT INFRINGMENT

Kaly
06-07-2005, 01:13 AM
Here are the results from David Oates, but he says that they were not definitive in this case and so could not determine guilt or innocence. Other students of Oates have also analyzed the 911 tape, but their results have not been certified by him yet.

GERALDO SHOW SPEECH REVERSALS IN THE ROUTIER CASE

Analyzed by David John Oates

Husband: …its just something that you have to experience, you have to be there…
The spy worthy

Husband ..the new TV was downstairs in the living room…
I ruined it

Husband ..the middle on Damon may have popped that table up in the middle of the night…
I will get that ******, Ma'am (rout4)

Husband …screaming devon devon, devon, over and over and over again…
Make her vulnerable in the bedroom (rout4)

Husband….I breathed into his mouth and when I did the very first time, blood cam out of his chest…
I met her in it, missed dope (rout5)

Husband: ..I ran across the street go the nurse can back and by then the whole house was full of people…
A ******ing error / God makes fun. The black noose

Husband: …I believe the dipatcher told Darly….
The shops said the bill

(Grandma) ..I know that Damon ????? Devon was already dead…
They love the man ./ I love it

(Grandma) ,,,loves you that lets your son love you and gives you beautiful grandbabies…
Not december / See that miracle

(Grandma) ,,they had dug through the trash…
They had manner

Husband …which they had already paid that payment…..
The mass kill / Get a right answer

(Sister) ..they can figure a lot but that doesn't prove she killed her kids….
Now worry

Darlene Routier Case

911 CALL

..they've just stabbed me and my children…
Nearly lost my man

..oh my god, my babies are dying…
There are no babies no more

…a man stabbed my babies, I woke…
The man did slay us

..he ran out through the garage…
Lay down

..my husband, he just ran down stairs, he's helping me…
Sherriffs fly faster

..when are they going to be here…
Maybe they get her off

..they ran out of the garage when I was sleeping…
Damn you

…they went out of the garage, they left a knife…
Throat is slit. Look at my blood (rout2)

…If they don't get here, they're going to be dead…
I give you my heat / I feel terror

…my God, please hurry…
Terror in heart (rout3)

…we could have gotten some prints maybe…
Be that desperate

cami
06-07-2005, 02:26 PM
I stumbled across this long article here in this forum, about Pardo and thought I would bump it. It really is a classic and someone ought to archive it before it disappears. (I would, but I'm not organized and I lose everything).

http://www.dallasobserver.com/issue...ws/feature.html (http://www.dallasobserver.com/issues/1998-08-06/news/feature.html)

It mentions Pardo tried to use Reverse Speech (http://www.*************.com (http://www.*************.com/)) in his investigations into the Routier crime. I used to know David Oates pretty well (who discovered RS) and am in renewed contact with him now. I believe he visited Dallas during this time and helped Pardo. I'm trying to find out more, like what their actual results were.

I did know a guy in Texas back in 1997 who was very good at Reverse Speech and he analyzed the 911 call. The results emotionally upset him so much, for so long, that I believe it caused him to quit doing reversals. I imagine it made Darlie look very guilty, if you believed in RS. It's too bad that he dropped out of sight, because he was very good at it. (Darn, I cannot remember his name, but Oates would probably remember him). If I can track him down some day, I will, and get his Darlie results.

This same guy had also analyzed a voice mail tape for me left by my brother who was missing at the time. It was awesome. You could very easily hear my brother talking about heavy drug use in the backwards. I did confirm later that he was missing because of heavy drug use. I wish I still had that documentation with the audio clips, but I don't.

If you are further interested in RS, check out these two other sites:

http://www.soulsay.com (http://www.soulsay.com/) - this guys gets really long reversals!
http://www.yourinnervoice.com (http://www.yourinnervoice.com/) - John Kelly is on radio shows with his work.
http://www.backwardmessages.com

This sounds like that technique that Dr. Hodges I think his name is used on the Ramsey ransom note but with the written word instead of speech. It's supposed to be the new forensics of the future--psycholinguistics. If it's accepted by LE that is. It's based on the premise that your subconscious will prompt you to tell the truth--somewhat like a Freudian slip I imagine. They call it "thoughtprints" Very weird.

Kaly
06-07-2005, 08:37 PM
This sounds like that technique that Dr. Hodges I think his name is used on the Ramsey ransom note but with the written word instead of speech. It's supposed to be the new forensics of the future--psycholinguistics. If it's accepted by LE that is. It's based on the premise that your subconscious will prompt you to tell the truth--somewhat like a Freudian slip I imagine. They call it "thoughtprints" Very weird.
Oooh, I think all of that stuff is fascinating. If you look at Freud's iceberg model here, it explains the basis of a lot. (I am not into Freud normally, but I do like this):

http://www.wilderdom.com/personality/L8-3TopographyMindIceberg.html

(Let the drawing on the bottom load)

cami
06-08-2005, 11:50 AM
Oooh, I think all of that stuff is fascinating. If you look at Freud's iceberg model here, it explains the basis of a lot. (I am not into Freud normally, but I do like this):

http://www.wilderdom.com/personality/L8-3TopographyMindIceberg.html

(Let the drawing on the bottom load)

I'm going to read this later, but wanted to ask if you have ever read that book by Andrew Hodges, "who will speak for JonBenet" I found it fascinating. Most can't get through it but you will probably like it. I don't know that I agree with the theories but it certainly is fascinating. It is based on the subconscious. He uses an investigative technique called "profile decoding" in an attempt to uncover the highly intelligent communicative centre deep within our psyches.

Here's a link to the book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0961725524/ref=ase_truecrimes-20/102-1545802-8178520?v=glance&s=books)

Goody
06-11-2005, 08:03 PM
Oooh, I think all of that stuff is fascinating. If you look at Freud's iceberg model here, it explains the basis of a lot. (I am not into Freud normally, but I do like this):

http://www.wilderdom.com/personality/L8-3TopographyMindIceberg.html

(Let the drawing on the bottom load)
This is all very interesting but what does it mean? Nothing jumped out at me except that Grandma's were so different, so much kinder sounding than the others.

Goody
06-11-2005, 08:05 PM
I'm going to read this later, but wanted to ask if you have ever read that book by Andrew Hodges, "who will speak for JonBenet" I found it fascinating. Most can't get through it but you will probably like it. I don't know that I agree with the theories but it certainly is fascinating. It is based on the subconscious. He uses an investigative technique called "profile decoding" in an attempt to uncover the highly intelligent communicative centre deep within our psyches.

Here's a link to the book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0961725524/ref=ase_truecrimes-20/102-1545802-8178520?v=glance&s=books)
Well, did you walk away with any firm belief in guilt or innocence supported by what you learned in the book?

Kaly
06-11-2005, 08:23 PM
I'm going to read this later, but wanted to ask if you have ever read that book by Andrew Hodges, "who will speak for JonBenet" I found it fascinating. Most can't get through it but you will probably like it. I don't know that I agree with the theories but it certainly is fascinating. It is based on the subconscious. He uses an investigative technique called "profile decoding" in an attempt to uncover the highly intelligent communicative centre deep within our psyches.
Here's a link to the book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0961725524/ref=ase_truecrimes-20/102-1545802-8178520?v=glance&s=books)Oh thank you Cami!! I have got to read that! After I read what I got from the library today - Blood Brother, and Small Sacrifices. I already have Mother Gone Bad. I really appreciate the tip!
Kaly

Kaly
06-11-2005, 08:36 PM
This is all very interesting but what does it mean? Nothing jumped out at me except that Grandma's were so different, so much kinder sounding than the others. I don't understand what you are saying. (Grandmas?) Are you referring to the post with the Freud link, or talking about the reverse speech dialog? The link I supplied is all about how so little of our experience and thoughts are just the tip of the iceberg. It shows how we are driven so strongly in our life by what lies underneath the surface. Most everything lies beneath the surface of our awareness!

Also, any anesthesiologist will tell you that there is a multitude of levels of awareness - it's not just awake, and asleep. Which reminds me of when I was in a week-long coma in March of 1999 from undiagnosed diabetes. I remembered a year later several things that happened when I was in the coma, unconscious.

Regarding Reverse Speech, I used to practice it a lot and it is truly spooky to do it first hand (you use audio software). I believe that the short phrases that are found in reverse are naturally generated, spontaneous; similar to mental "post-it" notes.

cami
06-13-2005, 09:57 AM
Well, did you walk away with any firm belief in guilt or innocence supported by what you learned in the book?

No Goody I didn't. I still don't what to believe in this case. I think the parents are guilty some days and other days I don't. I find it hard to believe it was a pedophile or a stranger. I think it was someone who knew the child, just by the way her body was left, and that takes me back to the family but no I have no firm beliefs from reading the book.

cami
06-13-2005, 09:59 AM
Oh thank you Cami!! I have got to read that! After I read what I got from the library today - Blood Brother, and Small Sacrifices. I already have Mother Gone Bad. I really appreciate the tip!
Kaly

Small Sacrifices is the best book ever. I think Dr. Hodges might have collaborated on Mother Gone Bad, not too sure.

Goody
06-13-2005, 10:55 PM
I don't understand what you are saying. (Grandmas?) Are you referring to the post with the Freud link, or talking about the reverse speech dialog? .
It was the reverse speech dialog I think. The phrases in reverse attributed to "Grandma's" were gentler in nature than that of Darlie's or Darin's. (I believe they were both sampled.) Not an important observation, but I didn't see anything in the Routiers (either one of them) that made me feel their subconscious was screaming out in guilt.)


The link I supplied is all about how so little of our experience and thoughts are just the tip of the iceberg. It shows how we are driven so strongly in our life by what lies underneath the surface. Most everything lies beneath the surface of our awareness!.
I understand that. I just didn't think it was very beneficial in this particular case.

Also, any anesthesiologist will tell you that there is a multitude of levels of awareness - it's not just awake, and asleep. Which reminds me of when I was in a week-long coma in March of 1999 from undiagnosed diabetes. I remembered a year later several things that happened when I was in the coma, unconscious. !.
Did you have weird dreams? Both times that I was put into a drug induced coma, I had the weirdest dreams that I remember very well and when I came to, I thought the docs were out to get me. They call it ICU Psychosis. I was convinced they were all grifters impersonating my doctors. My family thought I had brain damage and would never be the same. LOL!

Regarding Reverse Speech, I used to practice it a lot and it is truly spooky to do it first hand (you use audio software). I believe that the short phrases that are found in reverse are naturally generated, spontaneous; similar to mental "post-it" notes.
Sounds like it could be fun at a party. :laugh: It might one day take the place of karioke. On a more serious note, where would one get this software?

Goody
06-13-2005, 10:57 PM
No Goody I didn't. I still don't what to believe in this case. I think the parents are guilty some days and other days I don't. I find it hard to believe it was a pedophile or a stranger. I think it was someone who knew the child, just by the way her body was left, and that takes me back to the family but no I have no firm beliefs from reading the book.
I agree. I struggle with the Ramsey case, too. My gut tells me they are guilty but the evidence only takes me halfway there. I would rather believe they were wronged, but I have to admit if they were, it was of their own doing. I just can't imagine anyone acting more guilty.

Kaly
06-14-2005, 01:08 AM
Did you have weird dreams? Both times that I was put into a drug induced coma, I had the weirdest dreams that I remember very well and when I came to, I thought the docs were out to get me. They call it ICU Psychosis. I was convinced they were all grifters impersonating my doctors. My family thought I had brain damage and would never be the same. LOL!
OMG, the same thing happened to me! I thought I had been abducted and was being experimented on! So, it has a name - ICU Psychosis! Totally makes sense. My doctors thought I had permanent brain damage because I talked like a severely retarded person when I woke up. Lack of oxygen, I guess. Fortunately I slowly came out of that. How did you induce a coma? Accidentally or OD on purpose? Can I ask with what? I've attempted suicide a few times but that never put me into a coma. I was too busy throwing up.

I use CoolEdit software to do reverse speech, plus a microphone and tape recorder. CoolEdit is made by Syntrillium.com, but I just noticed they have renamed it and raised prices considerably. There must be one you could download for free. In fact, they may have some software especially for rs now at *************.com. It would be a lot of fun at a party, but it takes practice.

Kaly
06-14-2005, 01:14 AM
I agree. I struggle with the Ramsey case, too. My gut tells me they are guilty but the evidence only takes me halfway there. I would rather believe they were wronged, but I have to admit if they were, it was of their own doing. I just can't imagine anyone acting more guilty. Me too. I hope it gets solved in my lifetime. (But not as much as I hope we have alien contact in my lifetime)

Goody
06-17-2005, 08:18 PM
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OMG, the same thing happened to me! I thought I had been abducted and was being experimented on! So, it has a name - ICU Psychosis! Totally makes sense. My doctors thought I had permanent brain damage because I talked like a severely retarded person when I woke up. Lack of oxygen, I guess. Fortunately I slowly came out of that. How did you induce a coma? Accidentally or OD on purpose? Can I ask with what? I've attempted suicide a few times but that never put me into a coma. I was too busy throwing up.

.
I have severe COPD and went into respiratory failure. The doctors put me into a drug induced coma, which simply means they kept me drugged while they tried to treat my congestion. Both times I had the flu which sent me into respiratory failure. I was on a respirator for several days, almost died both times, and when I came to was terribly confused, esp the first time. I lost all muscular control, too, and couldn't even feed myself the second time. Had to learn to walk again both times. So now I stay home in the winter and avoid high risk places where flu germs might be waiting for me.

I am sorry to hear about our suicidal experiences. I hope you have it under control now. I take Paxil because depression and stress are major factors in my illness, and I have to say if you take the meds regularly they work wonders at brightening a day.

Thanks for the tips on reverse speech programming.

Kaly
06-18-2005, 12:40 AM
I take Paxil because depression and stress are major factors in my illness, and I have to say if you take the meds regularly they work wonders at brightening a day.

Thanks for the tips on reverse speech programming. Hi yes I take Wellbutrin now and it really took my suicidal thoughts away. Besides the ICU psychosis, did you ever recover any memories of things that happened in your comas? I did, recovered two small ones but that's about all. But it made me believe that we should talk to people who are in a coma, because they hear you or feel your words and actions on some level.

Goody
06-19-2005, 03:40 PM
Hi yes I take Wellbutrin now and it really took my suicidal thoughts away. Besides the ICU psychosis, did you ever recover any memories of things that happened in your comas? I did, recovered two small ones but that's about all. But it made me believe that we should talk to people who are in a coma, because they hear you or feel your words and actions on some level.
Some people have come awake and stated that they remembered many things that were thought not possible for them to recall. I remember fading in and out, like amost coming awake and desperately trying. I remember no one was able to hear me or understand. They could not see how desperate I was trying to reach the surface. It was sort of like being buried alive but with plenty of air to breathe and nothing physically holding you down. I remember one doctor saying they should not pay attention to me because I was only halucinating. When I asked him about it, he told me I was babbling something incoherent and he was telling my family not to pay any attention to me, that I didn't know what I was saying. I remember hearing nurses trying to wake me up several times. They would talk really loud, calling my name, telling me to wake up. I didn't want to because i was soooooooo sleepy. The drugs I guess. Something kept shocking me. Just when they were about to write me off, I pushed as hard as I could and got up on my elbow. I couldn't say a word but I remember a doctor's loud cry of surprise, followed by "Mrs. Trugritt!" Plus the dreams could have been inspired by things that were happening to me, phrases I heard or maybe a label I caught sight of. Interesting where those weird dreams would go. There is just so much about comas that science does not yet know. I think there is definitely room for caution when assuming the patient cannot hear or comprehend or feel pain.

White Rain
08-08-2007, 10:26 PM
I just found this thread, after I posted mine. Bumping it up...