Evidence

[Timex]

Since there seems to be a feeling that there is more than enough evidence to secure not only an arrest, but a conviction...I thought it would be good to have a thread where evidence was listed.

Since I really dont know of any evidence that has been found, I will rely on those of of you that do know of the physical as well as the circumstantial evidence LE has in this case.

[ewwwinteresting]

Great idea Timex!

Maybe someone in the "know" can post the definition of circumstantial evidence and how it differs from actual evidence.

[Timex]

CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE - Circumstantial evidence is best explained by saying what it is not - it is not direct evidence from a witness who saw or heard something. Circumstantial evidence is a fact that can be used to infer another fact.

Indirect evidence that implies something occurred but doesn't directly prove it; proof of one or more facts from which one can find another fact; proof of a chain of facts and circumstances indicating that the person is either guilty or not guilty.
E.g., If a man accused of embezzling money from his company had made several big-ticket purchases in cash around the time of the alleged embezzlement, that would be circumstantial evidence that he had stolen the money. The law makes no distinction between the weight given to either direct or circumstantial evidence.

E.g., X is suing his wife, Y, for a divorce, claiming she is having an affair with Z. Z's fingerprints are found on a book in X and Y's bedroom. A judge or jury may infer that Z was in the bedroom. The fingerprints are circumstantial evidence of Z's presence in the bedroom. Circumstantial evidence is usually not as good as direct evidence (an eyewitness saw Z in the bedroom) because it is easy to make the wrong inference - Y may have loaned Z the book and then carried it back to the bedroom herself after getting it back.

Circumstantial evidence is generally admissible in court unless the connection between the fact and the inference is too weak to be of help in deciding the case. Many convictions for various crimes have rested largely on circumstantial evidence.

[Timex]

DIRECT EVIDENCE - Evidence that stands on its own to prove an alleged fact, such as testimony of a witness who says she saw a defendant pointing a gun at a victim during a robbery. Direct proof of a fact, such as testimony by a witness about what that witness personally saw or heard or did.

[ewwwinteresting]

:clap: :clap: Good job with the explanations. Thank you!

[cappuccina]

back to your source, which in this case is:

http://www.tenant.net/Court/Legsystm/jud23.html

It's only fair; I have a Master's Degree in Labor Relations, and they scared the sh*t out of us in graduate school about plagiarism...I've never gotten over it...

[Timex]

back to your source, which in this case is:

http://www.tenant.net/Court/Legsystm/jud23.html

It's only fair; I have a Master's Degree in Labor Relations, and they scared the sh*t out of us in graduate school about plagiarism...I've never gotten over it...

Thats not the link I used. The info I posted is from an ebook I purchased during an online course.

[LvsAMystry]

Thats not the link I used. The info I posted is from an ebook I purchased during an online course.

Thankfully! I was scared cappucina had actually memorized the content of that link to be able to know where you'd lifted that info from! :eek:

[SouthEastSleuth]

You know, I was sitting here staring off into space, and noticed for the first time the "evidence" thread started by Timex. It got me thinking...

The crime here is Janet's murder.

The question is who killed her.

And if you stop and think about it, quite frankly we don't have ANY evidence regarding ANY POI. None. Not one shred.

We have theories. We speculate. We surmise. We guess.

But as far as anything to directly link Raven or anyone else, DIRECTLY to Janet's murder - NOTHING.

Sure, we have voluminous amounts of information about Raven Abaroa. And I think we can all agree, he's not the swellest of guys. Embezzlement, alleged adultery, etc. Egotistical? For sure. Vain? Yup. Materialistic? On as grand a scale as he could accomplish. Criminal? Well, for sure with regard to embezzlement. So, maybe if you knew all those things, he might not be your ideal son-in-law, who knows.

But, none of those things say he's a murderer. Nope, not one thing.

Now, that said, we can draw all sort of implications, inferences, etc. But, we're still missing THE big piece of the puzzle here - hard evidence. Physical evidence that ties him to the murder. Direct evidence that tells LE, "yep, he's our man."

So really, out hands are kind of tied. Until such time as LE releases more information...makes an arrest... or some media outlet jumps on this and runs with it.... or, I suppose, if WE somehow uncovered, or discovered hard evidence...and that's not likely to happen I don't think.

The only vein left to explore, with direct impact on the events of that evening, it seems to anyway, is the soccer game. IF indeed Raven has given that as an alibi, then there's that... Otherwise, what can we do at this point???? And I mean that as far as the issue of evidence goes. Tying someone directly to Janet's murder...

And please don't misunderstand me folks. I'm all for continuing what we're doing. As I said last week, I think every tidbit of information that we gather does in fact have a purpose, as far as painting a picture of an individual. I guess in some rudimentary way, on a tiny scale, it's like profiling. Pulling together ideas, thoughts, facts about what makes a person tick... And if that leads us to believe, or not as the case may be, that the finger is pointing at some particular person, then all that is left is the hard evidence to then PROVE the case...

So, I say we keep plugging along. Filling in the blanks slowly but surely. But, keeping our eye on the prize, so to speak -

Evidence that will arrest, try, and convict Janet's murderer.

[newkid]

But as far as anything to directly link Raven or anyone else, DIRECTLY to Janet's murder - NOTHING.

Sure, we have voluminous amounts of information about Raven Abaroa. And I think we can all agree, he's not the swellest of guys. Embezzlement, alleged adultery, etc. Egotistical? For sure. Vain? Yup. Materialistic? On as grand a scale as he could accomplish. Criminal? Well, for sure with regard to embezzlement. So, maybe if you knew all those things, he might not be your ideal son-in-law, who knows.

But, none of those things say he's a murderer. Nope, not one thing.

Very true, all we've proved is that Raven Abaroa is not the most upstanding human being. Statistically he looks good as a suspect, he was the person closest to her. However, I'm frustrated that his is the only name we have and he's only person we know for certain was at the crime scene. I'm all for plugging along.

[Timex]

This is why I would really like to know if the story about a co-worker going to the house when Janet didnt respond to an email is accurate.

I know some have speculated perhaps they were IM'ing, not emailing, and thats why the co-worker was alarmed when she didnt respond, but even at that, I find it a bit strange for someone to assume there was a serious problem just because she didnt respond. UNLESS, Janet had typed a message saying she had heard a noise or something like that.

Those of us who utilize the chat here can attest to the fact that often one of us will be chatting and suddenly disappear for sometimes hours. Things come up, we dont always take the time to inform others we will be AFK. None of us would assume danger had befallen our members simply because they stopped responding.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Very true, all we've proved is that Raven Abaroa is not the most upstanding human being. Statistically he looks good as a suspect, he was the person closest to her. However, I'm frustrated that his is the only name we have and he's only person we know for certain was at the crime scene. I'm all for plugging along.

Yes, and I certainly hope it did not seem as if I was throwing in the towel here - far from it! I think continuing to do, what we do, each and everyday, is incredibly important and valuable.

With regards to Raven himself, each day I feel like I "know" him a little better... get a better and clearer understanding of what makes him tick. And you're absolutely right newkid - his is indeed the only name we have. The only possible suspect that we know of. And yes, the only person we know of that was at the crime scene that evening. So gathering any and all information about the ONLY person we KNOW of that could even possibly have been involved - I'm all for it. And I know that every single piece of information we've uncovered here, is important. If for no other reason, than a profile of Raven....

So even with the lack of hard evidence to point towards ANYONE, thus far, we have to take what we DO have, and keep on rollin'....

[Jesstexas]

. . . I find it a bit strange for someone to assume there was a serious problem just because she didnt respond. UNLESS, Janet had typed a message saying she had heard a noise or something like that.
Either Janet had typed that she heard a noise, or she had previously told that co-worker the hoo-haw was gonna hit the fan that night -- those are really the ONLY two possibilities I can see IF the story of the concerned co-worker turns out to be accurate.

One scenario pointing to Janet's husband and the other pointing away from him.

[Timex]

Either Janet had typed that she heard a noise, or she had previously told that co-worker the hoo-haw was gonna hit the fan that night -- those are really the ONLY two possibilities I can see IF the story of the concerned co-worker turns out to be accurate.

One scenario pointing to Janet's husband and the other pointing away from him.


OR..the co-worker is being less than honest about why they went to the home.

[Jesstexas]

Well now, THAT's an angle I hadn't considered. . .

[ewwwinteresting]

Does anybody know where the link to the On the Record with Greta is? I have some thoughts but want to confirm them first and couldn't find this link in the media thread?

[SouthEastSleuth]

This is why I would really like to know if the story about a co-worker going to the house when Janet didnt respond to an email is accurate.

I know some have speculated perhaps they were IM'ing, not emailing, and thats why the co-worker was alarmed when she didnt respond, but even at that, I find it a bit strange for someone to assume there was a serious problem just because she didnt respond. UNLESS, Janet had typed a message saying she had heard a noise or something like that.

Those of us who utilize the chat here can attest to the fact that often one of us will be chatting and suddenly disappear for sometimes hours. Things come up, we dont always take the time to inform others we will be AFK. None of us would assume danger had befallen our members simply because they stopped responding.
I'm hesitant even to post this, as it truly only serves to muddy the waters a little more - but, and gang, this truly falls into the realm of

**UNCONFIRMED and NOT VERIFIED**

I was told, outside of WS actually, that a good friend and former co-worker of Janet's (from Eurosport), somehow heard that evening that police had responded to a murder on Ferrand Drive in Durham. (Television news report maybe, as it was around 1100pm, when there is often local news on...just speculating there).

Apparantly, again, from what I was told, she was very upset, and immediately thought of Janet. (Now, who knows, and this is speculation on MY part even...but if this is indeed all true, then perhaps at this point the IM or email thing came into play?? Maybe this person tried to get in touch with Janet? No clue.)

And then, supposedly this person went over to the house on Ferrand, and obviously found the place crawling with LE, etc. Was obviously distraught. Approached even by several members of the media, refused to talk to them, etc.

Now, IF this is all true, one could even then speculate on WHY this person would assume it might be Janet.

I mean if one of us heard about a murder on some particular street where we knew someone, perhaps we would be on edge as well.... Would I immediately think the worst? Who knows. I guess a lot of things would run through my mind... Is this someone with whom I'm particularly close? A family member? Are there many houses on that street? Lots of crime in that area? I'm just thinking out loud, for me personally, what it would take for me to automatically jump in my car and head over there.... Hard to say.

Now, if I in fact were privy to ANYTHING FROM THAT PERSON, DIRECTLY, that would make me leap to the conclusion that the murder victim could be that person, then yes, sure, absolutely, I'd be on my way, IF, I had heard the story, then tried to get ahold of this person first....remember, if I was calling someone at 11, midnight, 1AM, whenever, and I knew they typically are home then (on a weeknight remember), and, that they have a 6 month old baby...I may very well start to get anxious....

And again folks, this is all total heresay and unconfirmed information, coupled with a big ol' load of speculation from me.... so please, only take it for what it's worth...

[ewwwinteresting]

I'm hesitant even to post this, as it truly only serves to muddy the waters a little more - but, and gang, this truly falls into the realm of

**UNCONFIRMED and NOT VERIFIED**

I was told, outside of WS actually, that a good friend and former co-worker of Janet's (from Eurosport), somehow heard that evening that police had responded to a murder on Ferrand Drive in Durham. (Television news report maybe, as it was around 1100pm, when there is often local news on...just speculating there).

Apparantly, again, from what I was told, she was very upset, and immediately thought of Janet. (Now, who knows, and this is speculation on MY part even...but if this is indeed all true, then perhaps at this point the IM or email thing came into play?? Maybe this person tried to get in touch with Janet? No clue.)

And then, supposedly this person went over to the house on Ferrand, and obviously found the place crawling with LE, etc. Was obviously distraught. Approached even by several members of the media, refused to talk to them, etc.OK, now that makes so much sense to me. You are a co-worker of Janet's. Janet is going through these hard times in her life due to her husband's actions. You know the circumstances of her life. You are watching the news and hear "just in".....they talk about a women being found dead on Ferrand Drive! My immediate reaction would be to run to the phone (no answer)....run to the computer and email or IM (no answer).....jump in my car and drive over there. I would not be able to sleep if I knew my friend was possibly dead and I didn't go over there to at least check it out. If she was a co-worker, she probably lived close. I don't know why this didn't hit me before......thank you SES for this speculated unconfirmed post. At least this one makes more sense to me then what else we have come up with on this issue.

[newkid]

Ah ha! I like your theory SES.

[newkid]

Yes, and I certainly hope it did not seem as if I was throwing in the towel here - far from it! Oh no, I didn't mean to imply that, I probably didn't word my post very well.

[lauriej]

OK, now that makes so much sense to me. You are a co-worker of Janet's. Janet is going through these hard times in her life due to her husband's actions. You know the circumstances of her life. You are watching the news and hear "just in".....they talk about a women being found dead on Ferrand Drive! My immediate reaction would be to run to the phone (no answer)....run to the computer and email or IM (no answer).....jump in my car and drive over there. I would not be able to sleep if I knew my friend was possibly dead and I didn't go over there to at least check it out. If she was a co-worker, she probably lived close. I don't know why this didn't hit me before......thank you SES for this speculated unconfirmed post. At least this one makes more sense to me then what else we have come up with on this issue.
.......if someone emailed or IM'd me at 11 p.m.....chances are they wouldn't get an immediate response, and i would think with janet having to work in the a.m. that normally she'd be in bed by that time...
....if it was already on the news...........and LE were already at the house, would LE answer the phone if it rang ?

...i'm with you on your theory if..........the co-worker and janet had been IM'ing earlier in the evening ( while raven was at the game ) , janet suddenly stopped responding practically mid-sentence...........then...the co-worker hears it later on the news , and thinks OMG could it be janet? is that why she just disappeared earlier tonite ??

[ewwwinteresting]

It is very frustrating to not know of any actual evidence in this case. I have gone back and listened to and read some of the news media coverage on this case, together with my opinions, to try and put together the following. Please add to this as I’m sure I didn’t think of everything :)

Janet Abaroa was stabbed to death on April 26, 2005.
Husband found her in their residence located at 2606 Ferrand Drive, Durham, NC.
Husband called 911, reporting it as a gunshot wound.
Death is a homicide, not a suicide.
LE has stated the crime was not random and the public has no need to fear.

Quoting Mark Fuhrman, former LAPD Homicide detective (who appeared "On the Record" with Greta Van Susteren): "When they issued that statement it is not a random crime, that means that the victim was the intended victim to be killed."

Janet was the intended victim to be killed.

Mark Fuhrman further stated some reasons why LE would state it was not a random crime:

No visible signs of forced entry
No ransacking
No theft
No attempt to moving the victim
Everything taking place in the bedroom

Eric Olson: Reporter from the Durham Herald-Sun (who also talked "On the Record" with Greta Van Susteren) gave a description about that night something like this:

Raven comes home and calls in to report a gunshot wound to this wife, Janet. First officer arrives, spoke with Mr. Abaroa outside the house and Mr. Abaroa informed him his wife was upstairs and that she was hurt. Officer went inside the house to find her in an upstairs bedroom lying on her back dead with what appeared to be a stab wound to her chest.

Raven outside of house when LE arrives thinking they are responding to a gunshot wound.

During the interview with Greta, Mark Fuhrman expressed his disturbance that Husband describes victim of gunshot because it distances himself from the cause of death and also said it would be very disturbing if no blood was on Raven’s clothes since your first reaction would be to rush to the victim, try to revive them.

No report as to whether blood was on Raven’s clothes.

Mark Fuhrman further went on to say that since the police were able to, by affidavit, convince a Judge to search the house, truck and husband’s clothes - they are definitely seeing him as a possible suspect. They are doing a job to eliminate Husband and if they can eliminate him, they will and if they can’t, they will push farther on this toward the Husband.

Two search warrants issued - second one to determine relationship of vehicle to homicide.

It has been reported that the Police are not talking at all, saying they don’t want to hinder the investigation and Police have not said if they have suspects in this case.

Police have not stated that they have NO suspects in this case.
Husband has not publicly been eliminated as a suspect.

Out of the Norm
No normal off the record tips to reporter
Searched only residence and Dodge Durango
LE being tightlipped - not requesting help from public

Raven’s questionable behavior after death of Wife
No website memorial
No outward speaking calling for justice
No reward for information leading to the arrest of the murderer
Trust Fund set up in Janet’s name in Utah

Possible circumstantial evidence against Raven
Collected knives
Found body
Reported gunshot wound on 911 call
Police arrived: stated Wife upstairs hurt
Marriage problems - infidelity, Hot or Not site
Financial problems - embezzlement, fired from job, rent assistance from landlord and church
"Starting Over" Blog and other websites created by Raven

Still Needed
TOD
911 Tape
Autopsy Report
Other Search Warrants
Physical evidence results
Raven’s alibi confirmed
Kaiden’s whereabouts during and after murder
Computer and other electronics whereabouts

Possible motives for Janet’s murder
Life insurance
Crime of Passion
Self-defense

Raven’s Profile
Narcissist
Materialistic
Sociopath
Hot tempered
Selfish

To moderator: This is my opinion and unconfirmed directly to me.

[golfmom]

Now, if I in fact were privy to ANYTHING FROM THAT PERSON, DIRECTLY, that would make me leap to the conclusion that the murder victim could be that person, then yes, sure, absolutely, I'd be on my way, IF, I had heard the story, then tried to get ahold of this person first....remember, if I was calling someone at 11, midnight, 1AM, whenever, and I knew they typically are home then (on a weeknight remember), and, that they have a 6 month old baby...I may very well start to get anxious....

And again folks, this is all total heresay and unconfirmed information, coupled with a big ol' load of speculation from me.... so please, only take it for what it's worth...

When my best friend was going through her issues with her sociopath husband, if I heard a story on the news about a murder in her area I would have run over to her house immediately. There were many a night, when things got really flakey, I wouldn't let her go home because I was worried about her safety.

I feel that if her friend was worried about her, then it was for a very good reason.

[cappuccina]

If I were LE, I would really wonder why he was OUTSIDE the house waiting for their arrival...The only time I could see that being approrpriate is if one's house was burglarized, or something like that...Since he reported his wife as being "hurt", rather than "deceased", WHY WASN'T HE IN THE ROOM WITH HER, unless he was "finished with her", if ya know what I mean...

[SouthEastSleuth]

Be forewarned, this is yet another long, rambling post from me. (sorry)

I've been spending time again this morning with my good pal the search warrant! (UGH) But, I keep going back there, as in reality it is the only hard information we have from LE...

Several observations:

First, I think it might be important to at least TRY and establish a timeline of events for Tuesday, April 26, 2005.

We have confirmed reports that Janet had started a new job at Martin Marietta in Raleigh.

We do NOT have confirmed reports as to Raven's employment situation.

If would be helpful if anyone knows, factually, what a typical day was like in the Abaroa household during this time, i.e., what time did Janet have to be at work? If Raven was working, what time did he have to be at work? Generally, what time did one or both of them leave the house? If they were both working, what are the whos, whats, etc., regarding Kaiden? And, on the flip side, generally what time did everyone return from his or her workday, etc. Pick up Kaiden, if necessary, etc. Raven did post, as I recall on a VX board?, in some context, that they had a good friend who babysat for Kaiden (Everyday? As needed?)

Taking this a little farther... it would also be helpful to know if they had a typical routine in the evenings:

Did they generally try to have dinner around a certain time? What time was Kaiden put to bed? What time did Raven and/or Janet typically go to bed?

In trying to sketch out at least some details of that evening, the obvious missing piece of the puzzle is still TOD. But, that aside, maybe we can at least speculate on some things -

As Janet was working in Raleigh, and this was a Tuesday, we might GUESS that she went to bed fairly early? Who knows really, especially with a 6-month-old baby. Her drive to work would easily be 25-30 minutes, maybe even a little more, depending on traffic. And if we assume she had to be there by 8, maybe 9, then she would be up fairly early, presumably, to also deal with Kaiden in the morning. And, as noted, we don’t really have an idea about Raven’s work situation, much less his work hours, etc.

And, along the lines of "family schedule", if you will, it would be interesting to know how Janet was dressed when LE arrived. Was she dressed for bed, i.e., a nightgown or something, or, was she still in street or work clothes? (Could possibly speak to TOD issues….)

So, to some facts –

10:58 PM, Tuesday, April 26. Durham Police Department (DPD) responds to a 911 call, regarding a possible gun shot at 2606 Ferrand.

-What we don't know is the actual time the 911 call was received. We can assume it was somewhere in that general timeframe.

-What we don't know is IF Raven had been out that evening, at the soccer game, what time he ARRIVED HOME. And, what was the time delay between him arriving home and making the 911 call? Or, was he actually home the entire time, never having gone to a soccer game?

10:58PM - DPD responds, and according to the warrant, Officer Williams (OW) "spoke with Mr. Raven Abaroa who advised this his wife was upstairs, and that she was hurt. Officer Williams entered the residence*, and observed a white female in an upstairs BR, with what appeared to be a stab wound to her chest."

* I note this because all along I guess I had this mental image in my head of Raven sitting downstairs... Eric Olson (WTVD) reported on the Greta show that the Officer met Raven outside the house, then the officer went in. So, as we've always been amazed that Raven was not actually WITH JANET, who knows, maybe he was, and then ran downstairs to meet LE when they arrived?? Speculation.

11:50PM, April 26 - Investigator Early (IE) from DPD arrives.

11:55PM, April 26 - IE speaks to OW

12:13AM, April 27 - IE enters the residence. Notes the same observations as OW with regards to the body. He additionally notes the large amount of blood, blood on the wall, etc.

12:25AM, April 27 - IE departs residence

During this time, we can ASSUME that LE was talking to Raven perhaps,doing some sorts of initial investigations, etc.?

3:15AM, April 27 - IE receives search warrant

5:45AM, April 27 - Search warrant is executed

Search warrant fact, speculation, questions –

It is interesting to note that on the very first page of the request for the warrant the incident is listed as HOMICIDE. Period. So one can infer that at least by that time (the warrant was rec’d at 3:15AM remember….so SOME conversations, observations, investigations HAD to have occurred already in order for LE to come to the conclusion that this was a HOMICIDE, not accidental, not suicide.)

Now, if you look closely at the second page of the typed narrative of the search warrant, the text of the page ends with the sentence, "At approximately 12:25am, I departed the residence (no period at end, but, perhaps inadvertently omitted.)

The next page of the typed narrative begins "Based on the fact set forth in this affidavit…", blah blah blah .

The flow there is off. Speculation for sure, but, I think there are missing pages of the typed narrative. This would be where, presumably, IE would make the case for a warrant, based on interviews, etc. Again, pure speculation.

Search warrant items that I have questions about –

Items 4-10 - The clothes that LE took from Raven. Sweatshirt, "sports shirt", shorts, undershirt, two pairs of sock, "Climcool" shoes (which are actually Adidas ClimAcool shoes…they come in models for running, tennis, golf, hiking, and basketball… Climacool is fabric that Adidas uses on some clothing and shoes, to wick away moisture)

Ok, so they took the clothing he was wearing. But, you’ll note they also took some additional clothing.

Items 29, 30 – One pair Skechers, size 10. One pair Nike sandals

Items 37, 38 – One purple Pierre Cardin shirt, size 16-16 ½ (IMO this would be a man’s dress shirt. Men’s shirts are usually only sized that way if they are long-sleeved dress shirts.) Then again, there are many women who sometimes will wear a man’s dress shirt sometimes, to perhaps just hang out in, or, even sleep in. And yet ANOTHER pair of shoes, Adidas, size 10 ½

I can’t help wondering the deal with taking the dress shirt, as well as all of these additional (3 pairs) shoes. I mean they took the clothes he was wearing. So why these others? Many things I suppose could be possibilities – maybe there was blood splatter on these items? Or, was there some other reason?

I’ve often wondered too if there were recently laundered clothes in the washer or dryer?

Ok, I’ve rambled on and on, and I’m sure a number of you are rolling your eyes right now. LOL

But, if we COULD, SOMEHOW start to piece together the sequence of events from that day, it could lead a long way towards knowing what actually happened that evening, and, when…..

Ps- I SWEAR, I don't intend for my posts to be so darn longwinded and incoherent........but a lot of them sure turn out that way. Sigh....

[Timex]

Items 37, 38 – One purple Pierre Cardin shirt, size 16-16 ½ (IMO this would be a man’s dress shirt. Men’s shirts are usually only sized that way if they are long-sleeved dress shirts.) Then again, there are many women who sometimes will wear a man’s dress shirt sometimes, to perhaps just hang out in, or, even sleep in. And yet ANOTHER pair of shoes, Adidas, size 10 ½


Could these items be soccer clothes?

[SouthEastSleuth]

Items 37, 38 – One purple Pierre Cardin shirt, size 16-16 ½ (IMO this would be a man’s dress shirt. Men’s shirts are usually only sized that way if they are long-sleeved dress shirts.) Then again, there are many women who sometimes will wear a man’s dress shirt sometimes, to perhaps just hang out in, or, even sleep in. And yet ANOTHER pair of shoes, Adidas, size 10 ½


Could these items be soccer clothes?
Well, anal ol' me, LOL.... I searched and searched, and I could find NO evidence anywhere that Pierre Cardin makes soccer clothing, of any sort. Now, that said, maybe they do....but I could find no evidence of it, at least online. Perhaps someone who's a "soccer person" can shed some light on that as well.....

[cappuccina]

...although you would think that they would list them as "soccer shoes" or "molded cleats"...the Pierre Cardin shirt, definitely no...Soccer apparel typically comes in the S,M,L,XL-type of sizing, unless they are marked with European sizes...

[JerseyGirl]

Someone's probably already responded to this, Timex, but I see what your'e saying about group chat. However, in a one-on-one IM, if you're chatting, and the person suddenly disappears not to return, it would certainly be concerning.

But something you mentioned brought up an interesting idea. (This might be mentioned somewhere), but perhaps the person with whom Janet was IM'ing is the perp. They're chatting, she mentions that Raven's at a soccer game & won't be home for hours, Kaiden's sleeping so she' bored ... voila, person knows that Janet is alone. This person later calls 911 or shows up on the scene with their story. Maybe that's why that story's all but disappeared ... maybe LE has something to do with it because this person is being investigated. Maybe that's why the computers aren't there, (although LE might have them). Maybe the perp took them because they had just been IM'ing. Sounds far-fetched but without any details being released, who knows?

I also wanted to ask everyone ... is it standard to release a search warrant to LE with certain items not disclosed? Why would LE do that? Would LE release a search warrant with only certain information disclosed to lead people to believe one thing while investigating another - throw people off the trail, so to speak. Or would they release information to try to encourage discussions like this one to see what stones get turned over? In other words, could they be either trying to fool us or trying to get help without directly asking?

[Timex]

Thanks, just the color purple seems strange to me for a mans shirt. Maybe it wasnt really "purple". I assume the police officers were male, which would mean they would call anything that came close as being purple. Then again, maybe Raven liked strange colors.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I also wanted to ask everyone ... is it standard to release a search warrant to LE with certain items not disclosed? Why would LE do that? Would LE release a search warrant with only certain information disclosed to lead people to believe one thing while investigating another - throw people off the trail, so to speak. Or would they release information to try to encourage discussions like this one to see what stones get turned over? In other words, could they be either trying to fool us or trying to get help without directly asking?
I've wondered about this very same thing Jersey. Is releasing some, or all, of a search warrant standard procesure in an on-going homicide invesigation? I remember the day it was released, clearly - and I thought it was odd then. Do notice, it was only initially reported (and posted online) by ONE media outlet. I wondered at the time if it was possibly leaked even???

[Timex]

IMO, we are lucky to have what we have. Many times NOTHING is released while the investigation is on-going. Heck, many times things are sealed even after a trial has taken place. I dont read too much into the fact that not much has been released. Honestly, it's good policy IMO.

[cappuccina]

...first of all - Timex, a low of men are currently wearing dress shirts in deeper tones right now...like purple, burgundy, dark green, chocolate brown, the richer darker blues, etc. Even my fashion-conservative hubby had me buy him some shirts like this - I bought the darker green, a rich dark red, a dark cafe-au-lait and a dark blue one...

Also, according to a few of the media articles, the 911 call came in about 11 p.m. - sooo...Raven could have been home for a while before the murder occurred....maybe Janet was IM'ing to a friend that they were fighting, and that his temper had gone off the walls, and the friend became concerned...JMO...

As far as the warrant...I have a feeling that they may not have released all of its pages, or as per other discussions here, there is more than one warrant out there, and they chose to reslease the "safest" one to show that they were investigatiing this case...

[SouthEastSleuth]

IMO, we are lucky to have what we have. Many times NOTHING is released while the investigation is on-going. Heck, many times things are sealed even after a trial has taken place. I dont read too much into the fact that not much has been released. Honestly, it's good policy IMO.
Oh, and I agree... I think we are incredibly lucky to have the search warrant, even if it's just SOME of the pages.

But Timex, from your experience/knowledge, etc., is it customary in a case like this that LE would release ANY of the search warrant, especially within a week of the murder? I just always thought that was strange. ( I appreciate it, LOL, as it's provided all sorts of info...but thought it was strange, nonetheless...)

[Timex]

Oh, and I agree... I think we are incredibly lucky to have the search warrant, even if it's just SOME of the pages.

But Timex, from your experience/knowledge, etc., is it customary in a case like this that LE would release ANY of the search warrant, especially within a week of the murder? I just always thought that was strange. ( I appreciate it, LOL, as it's provided all sorts of info...but thought it was strange, nonetheless...)


I go back and forth on what I think about this. Sometimes I feel it wasnt meant to be released at all, then other times I feel maybe they just dont feel anything in that warrant was of any importance, so they didnt care that it was released.

But, each jurisdiction is different...each case is different, so its difficult to try and second guess just what is being done.

The big thing that is throwing me off in this case is...crimes that are not random usually result in an arrest fairly quickly, as the list of suspects is small. When I do a search on crime in durham...there have been so many others that have occurred and an arrest already made SINCE Janet was killed. Im not talking petty crimes, Im talking shootings, etc. So, if it wasnt random...why is it taking so long?

[SouthEastSleuth]

I go back and forth on what I think about this. Sometimes I feel it wasnt meant to be released at all, then other times I feel maybe they just dont feel anything in that warrant was of any importance, so they didnt care that it was released.

But, each jurisdiction is different...each case is different, so its difficult to try and second guess just what is being done.

The big thing that is throwing me off in this case is...crimes that are not random usually result in an arrest fairly quickly, as the list of suspects is small. When I do a search on crime in durham...there have been so many others that have occurred and an arrest already made SINCE Janet was killed. Im not talking petty crimes, Im talking shootings, etc. So, if it wasnt random...why is it taking so long?
That is exactly the question. And if you look back where it was reported that LE specifically said that it was NOT random, they also said in that same sentence, something to the effect that Durham citizens need not be concerned (with regard to it being a random killing). That said, the implication is clear to me - they either had a suspect or suspects, or, SOMETHING that led them to make the non-random, citizens have nothing to fear, statements.

The ONLY thing I can come up with are lab results. Waiting on them, doing more testing, something... Otherwise, your question is THE question - WHY IS IT TAKING SO LONG???

[Timex]

This is why I say the citizens of Durham need to be pushing the issue. LE has told them there is nothing to fear...if LE is so confident about this...why hasnt there been an arrest, or at least something to assure the citizens LE knows who did this?

Im not saying LE wasnt being honest when they made their statement, but IMO, they often use such a line to keep the public pressure off of themselves.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Procedural question for anyone -

In a case of this sort, would dusting for fingerprints be something that was done AUTOMATICALLY?

And, if so, would that be outside the boundaries of the search warrant?

[cappuccina]

....they should have sprayed Luminol in the apartment and on the vehicles and clothes as well at some point...They can also use cryanoacrylate vapor (done under a hood/or in a specialized chamber in the crime lab) to lift prints off of many objects if dusting for them does not work...

Forensic techniques and which ones they choose to use would not be listed in the warrant...

[JerseyGirl]

It is very frustrating to not know of any actual evidence in this case. I have gone back and listened to and read some of the news media coverage on this case, together with my opinions, to try and put together the following. Please add to this as I’m sure I didn’t think of everything :)You did an outstanding job with this post! It made me think that if Raven is NOT the perp, he would have to be kicking himself by now for the portrait that he's painted of himself. He really sounds like a class-A piece of work when you see it all listed outright like that!

Reading your post made me go back to one of the earliest details that we knew ... that Raven stated that Janet had been shot. I'm trying to think of how I might react or what I might say to 911. And if I was too freaked out to go near the body to determine for sure that it was a gunshot, I would most likely say something like "my wife is hurt - she's got a big wound on her chest - I can't tell if she's been shot or stabbed but there's a lot of blood - please come quickly". I can't say what Raven would say in the same circumstances if he's not the perp but I can tell you that he really set himself up to look like the perfect suspect, IMO. Stating that Janet was shot when she was actually stabbed is probably the number one thing that makes me suspect Raven. It's just too damned convenient, and definitely seems like something Raven would say, thinking that it would make LE think he's innocent. It seems just like Raven ... a pretty smart idea in theory but one that had he given it more thought, he might have realized that it wasn't the brightest thing to do or say after all. JMO.

[JerseyGirl]

If I were LE, I would really wonder why he was OUTSIDE the house waiting for their arrival...The only time I could see that being approrpriate is if one's house was burglarized, or something like that...Since he reported his wife as being "hurt", rather than "deceased", WHY WASN'T HE IN THE ROOM WITH HER, unless he was "finished with her", if ya know what I mean...I was thinking that he could have been running in and out, checking on her - looking for them. But that would totally depend on where Kaiden was. Had Raven checked the house while waiting for LE? Could he have known that the perp was no longer in the house? Raven seems to love Kaiden so much that I find it VERY difficult to believe that he would be so focused on Janet or waiting for LE that he would forget about Kaiden in his crib, especially considering that whomever had been there was a brutal murderer. If Kaiden was in his crib, it would seem to me that Raven was either hysterical in his mind, or he felt that there was no danger to the baby.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Reading your post made me go back to one of the earliest details that we knew ... that Raven stated that Janet had been shot. I'm trying to think of how I might react or what I might say to 911. And if I was too freaked out to go near the body to determine for sure that it was a gunshot, I would most likely say something like "my wife is hurt - she's got a big wound on her chest - I can't tell if she's been shot or stabbed but there's a lot of blood - please come quickly". I can't say what Raven would say in the same circumstances if he's not the perp but I can tell you that he really set himself up to look like the perfect suspect, IMO. Stating that Janet was shot when she was actually stabbed is probably the number one thing that makes me suspect Raven. It's just too damned convenient, and definitely seems like something Raven would say, thinking that it would make LE think he's innocent. It seems just like Raven ... a pretty smart idea in theory but one that had he given it more thought, he might have realized that it wasn't the brightest thing to do or say after all. JMO.
I've often wondered about this too. The warrant even mentions that LE thought they were responding to a gun shot. When the first officer arrived, Raven told him that his wife was upstairs hurt (according to the warrant). This is nit-picky for sure, and speculative as well, but the semantics bother me a little. If you thought she was upstairs and had been shot, wouldn't you say to the office, my wife's been shot, she's upstairs, as opposed to, "she's hurt?" I mean in emotions of a moment like that, which I hope I NEVER have to experience, who knows what a person will say or so...but I always found it odd...

[SouthEastSleuth]

Someday, I suppose not until a trial - I eagerly look forward to hearing that 911 call....

[Timex]

Ive been going back over the blood evidence...what little there is. Could just be the wording, but it doesnt say there was blood splatter on the walls, its says "stain". A stain to me would be from where someone or something that had blood on it brushed against the wall. There was also blood found on a door, right? This tells me that whoever the perp was, he/she had blood on them. It also tells me they most likely had contact with the body, and not just splatter on their clothes. I read somewhere that the carpet had been removed from the steps. Perhaps there were footprints on the carpet?

[SouthEastSleuth]

Ive been going back over the blood evidence...what little there is. Could just be the wording, but it doesnt say there was blood splatter on the walls, its says "stain". A stain to me would be from where someone or something that had blood on it brushed against the wall. There was also blood found on a door, right? This tells me that whoever the perp was, he/she had blood on them. It also tells me they most likely had contact with the body, and not just splatter on their clothes. I read somewhere that the carpet had been removed from the steps. Perhaps there were footprints on the carpet?All great points.

But playing devil's advocate a second -

We do NOT know if Janet was actually stabbed IN the bedroom either, simply that that's where they found her body.

Is it possible that she was stabbed DOWNSTAIRS, at least initially, got blood on the door while trying to escape, THEN ran upstairs (leaving blood on the stairs), ran into the bedroom, was against the wall at some point, leaving the stain, and THEN fell to the floor??

[Timex]

All great points.

But playing devil's advocate a second -

We do NOT know if Janet was actually stabbed IN the bedroom either, simply that that's where they found her body.

Is it possible that she stabbed DOWNSTAIRS, at least initially, got blood on the door while trying to escape, THEN ran upstairs (leaving blood on the stairs), ran into the bedroom, was again the wall at some point, leaving the stain, and THEN fell to the floor??

Yep..it is possible. But, since LE is saying it wasnt random, Im assuming they are saying no signs of a struggle. If someone had chased her through the house, surely something would have gotten knocked over etc?

[SouthEastSleuth]

Yep..it is possible. But, since LE is saying it wasnt random, Im assuming they are saying no signs of a struggle. If someone had chased her through the house, surely something would have gotten knocked over etc?
Yes, true, but if LE suspected Raven from the start, then there could be signs of a struggle, etc., that we know nothing about...and that the crime would still be reported as being "not random."

[JerseyGirl]

Thanks, just the color purple seems strange to me for a mans shirt. Maybe it wasnt really "purple". I assume the police officers were male, which would mean they would call anything that came close as being purple. Then again, maybe Raven liked strange colors.Raven seems to like being in the latest fashions and believe it or not, for those of you that don't know, pink is the newest "gangsta" color. Teenaged boys are wearing all sorts of pink shirts, hats, etc. now so I don't think that purple is that way off in the current male fashions. How large is 16 - 16 1/2. Would that be something that would be too large for Janet to wear? Sometimes women will wear men's shirts to bed but for her to be the owner of a Pierre Cardin dress shirt that's too big ... that's a different story. She most likely wouldn't have purchased it as a cozy nightshirt, and if it was too big, she wouldn't dress that way for work - in an oversized shirt with the sleeves hanging beyond her fingertips. I don't know men sizes so maybe someone who does can consider these things.

As for the shoes, I would assume that they took all of these shoes to see if there might be any evidence on any of them. LE would be aware that Raven might have changed clothes after arriving home. It could also be a blood spatter issue since if I'm remembering correctly, in the pictures of Raven and Kaiden at the desk in that bedroom/office, isn't there a closet behind him with clothing in it? Perhaps the shoes were also kept in that closet?

Finally, if Raven was so hysterical when talking to Janet's family, and was intermittently hysterical at the funeral, I can't help but wonder how he sounded on that 911 call. I desperately want to hear the 911 call!!!

[golfmom]

Wasn't it the bedroom that was converted into an office area where Janet was found? I was thinking it would have been the same room that is pictured here ....

http://www.ravenstree.com/images/Kaiden%20Images/IMGA0426.JPG

[Timex]

Right, but here's what I was thinking when I posted. If someone were chasing me through the house with a knife, I would be pulling things down behind me as I ran, in an attempt to slow them down. The things I pulled over would also have blood on them. Since we didnt see anything about chairs with blood, tables with blood etc, I assume this wasnt the case? Again, Im just basing my speculation on what I think I may have done in this situation, as it's all I really have to base my speculation on at this time.

I am torn about if I would run upstairs where my baby was or not. Part of me thinks I would stay as far away from my baby as possible, in hopes of the perp not finding him...and part of me thinks my first instinct would be to get to my baby to protect them.

Of course, if she were already in the bedroom when the attack occured, then none of that would apply.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Wasn't it the bedroom that was converted into an office area where Janet was found? I was thinking it would have been the same room that is pictured here ....

http://www.ravenstree.com/images/Kaiden%20Images/IMGA0426.JPG
Hi GM!

I do remember discussion about that BR/office as the site where Janet was found...but, do we know that for sure? The warrant just states an upstairs bedroom.

[Timex]

Wasn't it the bedroom that was converted into an office area where Janet was found? I was thinking it would have been the same room that is pictured here ....

http://www.ravenstree.com/images/Kaiden%20Images/IMGA0426.JPG

Ahhh then this bring us back to the computer issue. I am 99% sure law enforcement has, or had that computer. If we assume the story about a co-worker emailing, IM'ing or whatever is true, LE would have taken the computer first IMO. Since they would then know the computer was a normal means of communication for Janet. One of the first things they would have wanted to do was check her online activity, IMO.

[golfmom]

MY SPECULATION ONLY.

I thought that Janet was already upstairs, possibly on the computer. She was attacked and killed there. The blood found elsewhere was from the murderer.

That might account for why the co-worker was disturbed hearing a report of a murdered woman and concerned because Janet didn't respond.

[JerseyGirl]

All great points.

But playing devil's advocate a second -

We do NOT know if Janet was actually stabbed IN the bedroom either, simply that that's where they found her body.

Is it possible that she was stabbed DOWNSTAIRS, at least initially, got blood on the door while trying to escape, THEN ran upstairs (leaving blood on the stairs), ran into the bedroom, was against the wall at some point, leaving the stain, and THEN fell to the floor??When people fall or pass out, they typically fall forward, landing face-down. Janet was face-up when LE arrived.

The blood on the door and the wall are interesting in that I wonder the height of the stains. Were they hand-level, and for what height person? Were they at the same level as any of Janet's injuries, etc.?

By the way, SES, I thoroughly enjoy your posts. While they are lengthy, every word is important, and takes us clearly through the thought process. I, for one, think they're perfect just as they are. :)

[Timex]

MY SPECULATION ONLY.

I thought that Janet was already upstairs, possibly on the computer. She was attacked and killed there. The blood found elsewhere was from the murderer.

That might account for why the co-worker was disturbed hearing a report of a murdered woman and concerned because Janet didn't respond.

Ive thought about that, and here's why I dont think it happened that way...just my thoughts...and I realize we dont have all of the info. When I read of the swabbings that were taken...there is no mention of them swabbing a computer, keyboard, mouse etc. If she had been on the computer at the time, I would think that would be one of the first things they would have done?

[SouthEastSleuth]

Question for NCBanker -


I recall that when you went to the house, you said you looked in the window, and you reported here that the carpet was missing from the staircase. Do you recall by any chance noticing if there was carpet on the floor in the rooms you could see? I just wonder if the carpet on the stairs was the only carpet that had been removed from the house (either by the owner, or, by LE)....

[golfmom]

Ive thought about that, and here's why I dont think it happened that way...just my thoughts...and I realize we dont have all of the info. When I read of the swabbings that were taken...there is no mention of them swabbing a computer, keyboard, mouse etc. If she had been on the computer at the time, I would think that would be one of the first things they would have done?

If the computer was still there. They said in the request for the search warrant that they wanted computer files, etc. and it never made it into the recovered items. Maybe they have it and it wasn't listed, or maybe it wasn't there at all. :waitasec:

[Timex]

If the computer was still there. They said in the request for the search warrant that they wanted computer files, etc. and it never made it into the recovered items. Maybe they have it and it wasn't listed, or maybe it wasn't there at all. :waitasec:

Right, but if it wasnt, IMO, that would be more than enough reason to at least detain Raven for questioning. LE would obviously know at that point someone had taken/gotten rid of a computer.

[Timex]

To me, law enforcement has to have some idea as to if Raven was being truthful that night. Was the hood to his vehicle warm, to indicate he had indeed just gotten home? This is the type of thing I have to assume they at least made note of. If the vehicle was completely cool, it would show he had either never left the home that night, or...he waited quite a while before calling 911 when he did get home.

[golfmom]

Right, but if it wasnt, IMO, that would be more than enough reason to at least detain Raven for questioning. LE would obviously know at that point someone had taken/gotten rid of a computer.

I agree, but I believe that initially they may have been looking at a number of senarios, including burglary. Something must have made them rule that out when the released that this was not a random murder. Raven may not have been *capable* in LE's opinion to be seriously interviewed that evening.

[JerseyGirl]

MY SPECULATION ONLY.

I thought that Janet was already upstairs, possibly on the computer. She was attacked and killed there. The blood found elsewhere was from the murderer.

That might account for why the co-worker was disturbed hearing a report of a murdered woman and concerned because Janet didn't respond.I agree with this scenario. As we know the details right now, this is what I find most likely to have happened. I stated a while back that I believe that Janet was on the computer while someone tip-toed up behind her. She heard him/her at the last minute, and as she turned around, a knife-blow that was intended for her back hit her in the shoulder. She probably grabbed her shoulder as she stood up the best she could, and tried to get past the perp. The perp swung the knife at her again, and this time she put her hand up to protect herself, causing a wound to her hand. As she gets closer to the door to get out, or as she's fending off the second blow, she bumps up against the wall, causing the blood from her shoulder to stain the wall. I would assume that at that point, the perp grabbed her, perhaps threw her down, and got her the 3rd time. This is the scenario that makes the most sense to me.

LE would have swabbed the computer had it been there but we still don't know if it was. We also don't know if there are things that were swabbed that we don't know about because it seems apparent that pages are missing from the search warrant.

ETA: The above scenario is IF the statements we've been told about the 3 wounds are true.

[JerseyGirl]

I agree, but I believe that initially they may have been looking at a number of senarios, including burglary. Something must have made them rule that out when the released that this was not a random murder. Raven may not have been *capable* in LE's opinion to be seriously interviewed that evening.Raven could also have said that he and Janet only had a laptop, and the laptop was stolen from his car a week ago. Or he could have produced a laptop, (most likely one that doesn't have so much questionable stuff on it), saying that it was in his car during the soccer game.

[Timex]

I can agree with the above scenario, as it would certainly fit into what we know at this time. However, just my opinion, but I think if LE felt they truely had Raven in a lie that night, they would have taken him in, no matter what his condition was. That would have been the best time to get him to "break".
They have to know if his story about soccer is true or not. Just no way they dont know this. If they have proof he was not, that, to me, would have resulted in an arrest.

[golfmom]

Raven could also have said that he and Janet only had a laptop, and the laptop was stolen from his car a week ago. Or he could have produced a laptop, (most likely one that doesn't have so much questionable stuff on it), saying that it was in his car during the soccer game.

Damn that laptop! it's going to drive us all crazy. :banghead:

[Timex]

Raven could also have said that he and Janet only had a laptop, and the laptop was stolen from his car a week ago. Or he could have produced a laptop, (most likely one that doesn't have so much questionable stuff on it), saying that it was in his car during the soccer game.

But if she was talking to someone on the computer at the time of the murder...LE would have to know he was lying if he told them such a story.

[JerseyGirl]

I can agree with the above scenario, as it would certainly fit into what we know at this time. However, just my opinion, but I think if LE felt they truely had Raven in a lie that night, they would have taken him in, no matter what his condition was. That would have been the best time to get him to "break".
They have to know if his story about soccer is true or not. Just no way they dont know this. If they have proof he was not, that, to me, would have resulted in an arrest.
Yeah, you're probably right. So the only possibilities are that either Raven didn't do it or he was good about covering his tracks. Could it be that he had two laptops? One that he hid, and one that he put in its place before they arrived?

Also, does the warrant mention there being a lot of blood on the walls & floor? Because if it was just a stain and not a huge mess like we might have been assuming, and the 3 wound statement correct, it could be that the perp wanted to use only the number of stabs necessary to cause death but without making a big mess of him/herself that would cause evidence/shoeprints, etc. to be dragged through the house and into their car, etc.

[Timex]

IF she was talking to someone online replacing the computer would be fruitless. LE would know it wasnt the same computer, since they would know who her last correspondance was with. This would have made Raven a SERIOUS supsect IMO...and given them more than enough for an arrest.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I can agree with the above scenario, as it would certainly fit into what we know at this time. However, just my opinion, but I think if LE felt they truely had Raven in a lie that night, they would have taken him in, no matter what his condition was. That would have been the best time to get him to "break".
They have to know if his story about soccer is true or not. Just no way they dont know this. If they have proof he was not, that, to me, would have resulted in an arrest.
Totally agree. That's why I've harped so much on that soccer game. So easy to verify, or not. I mean come on, even IF it was some pick up game, with strangers, would it be THAT difficult to track those people down? And God, if it was me and I knew that there people I had been with that night, that could vouch for me, I sure hope they would come forward to do so, even if I didn't know one single name of those people.

The soccer game is such an easy check, IMO. It's not like he said I was out walking by myself for hours, to get some fresh air, and I don't know if anyone saw me or not.

Now, that said -

another theory I've always toyed with is this:

He could have murdered Janet, THEN gone to play soccer, just to CREATE an alibi. Again, what would be vitally important to know here is TOD...

[JerseyGirl]

IF she was talking to someone online replacing the computer would be fruitless. LE would know it wasnt the same computer, since they would know who her last correspondance was with. This would have made Raven a SERIOUS supsect IMO...and given them more than enough for an arrest.IF the computer's been investigated yet. If there are a lot of murders in that area, and the lab is desperately backed up, so might be the person/people that investigate computers?

[Timex]

IF the computer's been investigated yet. If there are a lot of murders in that area, and the lab is desperately backed up, so might be the person/people that investigate computers?


For a full forensic investigation of the computer, yes...but just to do a quick check of the history to see where she was last doesnt take much, doesnt even take an expert to check her email etc.

If co-worker said to LE:

"I was IM'ing her and she just disappeared" it would be so very easy for them to tell if this was the computer she had been using. If that computer wasnt in use at the time the co-worker said she was speaking with her...it couldnt be the same computer.

[Timex]

He could have murdered Janet, THEN gone to play soccer, just to CREATE an alibi. Again, what would be vitally important to know here is TOD...


Except we are assuming she was online with the co-worker. She would had to have been alive longer than the above scenario would permit.

[JerseyGirl]

He could have murdered Janet, THEN gone to play soccer, just to CREATE an alibi. Again, what would be vitally important to know here is TOD...And as someone mentioned a while back, perhaps there was a shower facility/locker room where he could have cleaned up, especially if there wasn't much blood to be seen on him because the murder wasn't particularly messy.

If it was a true pick-up game where anyone can join in, it's entirely possible that it was a game where everyone was a total stranger. Raven knows enough about the soccer scene to know what pick-up games are played where, the usual make-up of the teams (regulars or strangers), and how the length of drive might fit into his alibi. If the pick-up game was of the type that anyone can just stop by, there's nothing saying that LE would be able to determine who was there that night. And since LE hasn't made a public plea for people to come forward, how would Raven's fellow players even know that LE was looking for people to firm up his alibi? I noticed, BTW, that a couple of the leagues were at the end of their seasons in April. Imagine how convenient it would be to go to a stranger pick-up game on the last night of the season?

[SouthEastSleuth]

IF the computer's been investigated yet. If there are a lot of murders in that area, and the lab is desperately backed up, so might be the person/people that investigate computers?
Funny you mention that. This article was in a local newspaper, just YESTERDAY! (Note: SBI is the State Bureau of Investigation in NC. I do NOT know if local LE offices have their own experts in this regard, but, I somewhat doubt it...)

An excerpt:

"RALEIGH -- SBI agent Eric R. Hicks spent last week scouring more than half a million files on one computer hard drive for evidence against a man accused of sending porn to kids. Because he always works two cases at once, Hicks also was searching 100,000 files in a child pornography case.


As the agency's only computer forensic technician, Hicks' work is in such high demand that he handles only murder or child exploitation cases, and he still has a backlog of about 50 cases -- a year's work.

"We need help," Hicks said. "We need it bad." Hicks isn't the only one at the Raleigh crime lab who's struggling. The 17 geneticists have 36,000 DNA samples awaiting analysis and review before they can go into a database. The 19 drug chemists who travel to methamphetamine lab busts have a backlog of 15,000 drug cases."

The full article is here:

http://www.newsobserver.com/print/wednesday/front/story/2482570p-8886859c.html

[Jesstexas]

About the shoes - the first thing I thought of was that they took several pairs of extra shoes (besides the ones Raven was wearing at the time) to compare with bloody footprints found on the scene. (Complete conjecture on my part, I know, but the murder was reported by the media as being "brutal" and LE listed blood stains on the walls - if the scene was bloody and "brutal", I'd expect the killer to have left bloody footprints getting out of there.)


Something else that's bothered me about the items on the search warrant. There were two items of "paper" seized - both from the foyer (which to me, means the area just inside of the FRONT door). Were these items seized along with other "financial" type evidence, because they had blood spatter on them, or because they may have fingerprint evidence on them? (Like, if Janet answered the door bell - FRONT door - and opened it because someone was standing there with papers for her, struggle ensues and papers are dropped?)

[Timex]

One thing Im trying to figure out is...how long did the co-worker wait before going over to the house? I know we have been told she/he went when they heard of a murder there in the area...but was that 30 minutes after they had heard from Janet...an hour after...just how long after was it?

[JerseyGirl]

Except we are assuming she was online with the co-worker. She would had to have been alive longer than the above scenario would permit.Unless it was a situation where the person she was talking to didn't get worried until she saw it on the news, as was mentioned earlier. Janet couldn't have stopped chatting mid-sentence because until you hit "send", your words aren't displayed in the IM. She could have left off mid-conversation which might have concerned the co-worker but she might have assumed that Raven got home, and that Janet was either pretending that she wasn't online when he got there or that they were talking/arguing. I can see that making the co-worker hesitant about calling or stopping to see what was going on, (not wanting to get Janet "in (more) trouble" with Raven if they were arguing. Then upon seeing a murder on the news, she "just knew" it was Janet.

[JerseyGirl]

Funny you mention that. This article was in a local newspaper, just YESTERDAY! (Note: SBI is the State Bureau of Investigation in NC. I do NOT know if local LE offices have their own experts in this regard, but, I somewhat doubt it...)

An excerpt:

"RALEIGH -- SBI agent Eric R. Hicks spent last week scouring more than half a million files on one computer hard drive for evidence against a man accused of sending porn to kids. Because he always works two cases at once, Hicks also was searching 100,000 files in a child pornography case.


As the agency's only computer forensic technician, Hicks' work is in such high demand that he handles only murder or child exploitation cases, and he still has a backlog of about 50 cases -- a year's work...Wow, that could explain things. I would think that ongoing child exploitation would take priority over murder but I could be wrong. Would the computer have to wait for him or is a preliminary done on it to acquire basic information, (like Janet being online at the time of the murder)?

[Timex]

Right, thats why I was wondering how long it was.

If the last the coworker heard from Janet was at say 10:20, and LE was at the house by 10:58, then we are only seeing 48 minutes for Raven to have committed the crime, cleaned himself up, set the scene and call 911.

If the last the coworker heard from her was say 7:20...then we are seeing ample time for him to have accomplished all he needed.

[JerseyGirl]

I thought the papers in the foyer were noted as being taken from a closet? What makes me curious is why they would take those papers in the first place? Is it standard to take financial papers (or whatever else they might have been), was it something that piqued the searchers' interest, or is it based on the knowledge that Raven is an accused embezzler?

[JerseyGirl]

Right, thats why I was wondering how long it was.

If the last the coworker heard from Janet was at say 10:20, and LE was at the house by 10:58, then we are only seeing 48 minutes for Raven to have committed the crime, cleaned himself up, set the scene and call 911.

If the last the coworker heard from her was say 7:20...then we are seeing ample time for him to have accomplished all he needed.That's true. Another critical piece of information that would give us a much clearer idea of what we're looking at.

[Timex]

Another question I have, and it may have been mentioned already...

Where was Kaiden when LE arrived on the scene?

[golfmom]

Another question I have, and it may have been mentioned already...

Where was Kaiden when LE arrived on the scene?

That's another one of those unknowns.

[Jesstexas]

I thought the papers in the foyer were noted as being taken from a closet?
Look at the search warrant again - page 13 - when I first read those two lines about the "paper in foyer," I read the descriptions as "closest to door" and "closest to bathroom." When you mentioned "closet," I looked again and you're right - that's exactly what it says. But I think maybe the officer just didn't spell "closest" correctly. "Closet to door" just doesn't make any sense.

[Chica]

I just want to add that - from my experience - you NEVER know what you will do if/when you are in a particularly stressful situation. For instance, I had a man break into my apartment (24 years ago); grab my arm when I reached into a dark bedroom to turn on the light; spin me around so my back was facing his front; held me around the neck in the crook of his arm; and hold a knife at my neck. Prior to this happening, I had always 'planned' to cooperate with an assailant - even through a rape - if such a thing would ever happen to me. When in the midst of this assault, I kicked, screamed, yelled, and fought in every and anyway possible. Luckily, I was not physically harmed, as the assailant eventually threw me against a wall and ran out of my apartment . . . but what surprised me more than anything, was the fact that I fought so hard . . . I had previously 'decided' to cooperate, when imaging this situation in my head . . . just an FYI!

[SouthEastSleuth]

And keep in mind, these things are all UNCONFIRMED information, just heresay and speculation:

1. That a coworker was indeed communicating electronically with Janet that night.
2. That a coworker actually went to the house that night

For me, I can buy I think that a coworker somehow heard about the case, perhaps on the news, as the timing for that may fit...and then was concerned and went to the house. I'm not AS convinced about this whole IM/email business. And if indeed that WAS happening, IM/email, the timeframe would sure be useful information. As Timex pointed out earlier, being in the middle of electronic communication with someone and that having that person all of the sudden STOP communicating, would not for me anyway, necessarily send up a red flag (unless, of couse, something in the communications themselves was germane).... Example - my electricity will sometimes blink on and off at home. When it does that, it completely shuts down my computer and proceeds to power up and reboot again... If I had been on line communicating with someone, then suddenly I would have just disappeared. If Janet WAS in the middle of IMing, whatever, and Kaiden started crying, she could have been distracted. She could have been distracted by the telephone even.

And, as I posted earlier, in the vein of pure speculation, if we are assuming that all of this was happening late that evening, 10ish?, who knows....but I keep wondering if Janet would be up that late, on the computer, given the fact that she had presumably worked all day, come home, done typical evening things, including possibly feeding and bathing Kaiden, etc.... and then had to get up at least relatively early, presumably, the next day to go back to work. Maybe she did. Maybe not.

I guess if we are making the assumption that she was online with the coworker, simply to make it plausible WHY the coworker would then go over there, I think it might be a stretch.....as we CAN possibly explain the coworkers presence at the scene, based solely on HEARING about a murder on Ferrand, THEN going over there....

[Timex]

Chica, I agree, thats why I keep saying I base my opinions on what I "think" would do in a given situation or what I have done in a given situation. Its really all we can base opinions on.

Thats why I asked where Kaiden was. Part of me thinks my response would have been to gather him up and keep him with me while waiting on 911, which could explain why Raven wasnt in the room with Janet when they arrived. Then part of me thinks I would have left him in his crib, and tended to my spouse. But having never been in this situation, I can see both scenario's as reasonable.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Help me out here -

Don't I recall information somewhere that Raven came home, said he checked on Kaiden, then went in the other room and found Janet's body?? I feel certain I remember that information somewhere.... was it reported in the media maybe??

Anyway, it occurs to me, IF Raven got home from the soccer game, went straight upstairs to check on Kaiden, then found Janet -

When he came in the house, wouldn't he have seen the blood on the door? The blood on the carpet on the stairs?

Ok, so maybe he did, and he was then running to check on Kaiden and then found Janet... Plausible I suppose. But I just remember thinking that it just sounded so routine in the way it was described. Versus being frantic when you got home, saw blood, and acted accordingly....

On one other note: do we know if the master bedroom was on the first or second floor of the house?

[Timex]

Was the blood on the door they normally used to come and go? Or a different door? As in, could he have entered the house without seeing the blood on the door?

[golfmom]

Help me out here -

Don't I recall information somewhere that Raven came home, said he checked on Kaiden, then went in the other room and found Janet's body?? I feel certain I remember that information somewhere.... was it reported in the media maybe??

Anyway, it occurs to me, IF Raven got home from the soccer game, went straight upstairs to check on Kaiden, then found Janet -

When he came in the house, wouldn't he have seen the blood on the door? The blood on the carpet on the stairs?

Ok, so maybe he did, and he was then running to check on Kaiden and then found Janet... Plausible I suppose. But I just remember thinking that it just sounded so routine in the way it was described. Versus being frantic when you got home, saw blood, and acted accordingly....

On one other note: do we know if the master bedroom was on the first or second floor of the house?

I remember that story too. I think it was in the print media when Janet's family was interviewed ... maybe ... let me look around and see if I can find the reference.

[Jesstexas]

Was the blood on the door they normally used to come and go? Or a different door? As in, could he have entered the house without seeing the blood on the door?
As I read the search warrant, swabbings were taken from the INTERIOR of the side door and the INTERIOR of the side door storm door (so presumably, that's where the blood was).

Entering the house from the outside, you wouldn't necessarily see blood on the interior of the door, I imagine - I mean, I never look back at the door when I close it - I look at the LOCK on the doorhandle, but not at the whole door.

[Timex]

Was the side door the normal door used to enter and exit the house?

[Jesstexas]

Was the side door the normal door used to enter and exit the house?
I don't think that's been positively established. There were photos posted of Raven, Janet and Kaiden taken on the FRONT porch which were titled something along the lines of "as we were leaving . . ." Also, the soccer shoes were kept on a little bench right outside the FRONT door, making me think that's where dirty shoes were taken off before entering the house.

But, one of the parking areas for the house was just beyond the SIDE door (there's another parking area in front of the house - from which you'd probably logically use the front door of the house to enter).

I read that the Durango was parked "to the right" of the house - making me think it was parked near the SIDE door. However, we don't know if Raven drove the Durango that night, or if it was home with Janet.

[lauriej]

[QUOTE=SouthEastSleuth]Help me out here -



When he came in the house, wouldn't he have seen the blood on the door? The blood on the carpet on the stairs?

Ok, so maybe he did, and he was then running to check on Kaiden and then found Janet... Plausible I suppose. But I just remember thinking that it just sounded so routine in the way it was described. Versus being frantic when you got home, saw blood, and acted accordingly....

........now that's a very good point, his not reacting to the blood, calmly going in to kiss kaiden good-nite..

...also....i'm a few time zones away from NC, but i've always thought 11 p.m. to be vey late in getting home from a soccer game.....even if the game was 30 minutes or so away....wouldn't it be quite dark at 10:30 when the game ended ?

[SouthEastSleuth]

Was the side door the normal door used to enter and exit the house?
I'm not sure we know that or not. Part of the driveway comes up beside the house..and if you parked there, the side door would be the most direct entrance. However, as we've seen from pictures, there was also a small bench of some sort that sat by the FRONT door, where in one picture (where Janet is holding Kaiden, on the front porch) you can see a pair of shoes sitting on that bench. (This was pointed out awhile back after NCBanker went to the house and noticed a pair of soccer shoes sitting on that same bench). So that COULD imply that they used the front door I suppose... as the outside bench was maybe a place to put dirty shoes or something?

(There is also I think, correct me here NCBanker if I'm wrong, that there is a parking area in front of the house as well...)

[Timex]

[QUOTE=SouthEastSleuth]Help me out here -



When he came in the house, wouldn't he have seen the blood on the door? The blood on the carpet on the stairs?

Ok, so maybe he did, and he was then running to check on Kaiden and then found Janet... Plausible I suppose. But I just remember thinking that it just sounded so routine in the way it was described. Versus being frantic when you got home, saw blood, and acted accordingly....

........now that's a very good point, his not reacting to the blood, calmly going in to kiss kaiden good-nite..

...also....i'm a few time zones away from NC, but i've always thought 11 p.m. to be vey late in getting home from a soccer game.....even if the game was 30 minutes or so away....wouldn't it be quite dark at 10:30 when the game ended ?

I had just assumed the fields were lighted. I know all of our sports complexes have lighting for night games.

[lauriej]

I had just assumed the fields were lighted. I know all of our sports complexes have lighting for night games.
.......oh yes.......makes sense...or i suppose there's even indoor soccer...

...does anyone know how long a soccer game lasts ?

[Timex]

.......oh yes.......makes sense...or i suppose there's even indoor soccer...

...does anyone know how long a soccer game lasts ?


Im not positive, but I think there are four 15 or 20 minute quarters.

[Timex]

Game structure: A soccer game consists of two halves that must be of equal length in their prescribed duration, with a required timeout for halftime in between. In adult soccer, the prescribed duration is 45 minutes. Local organizations can prescribe shorter, though still equal-length halves (and therefore, games) for youth and adult recreational games.



http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~dgraham/lotg/law07.html

[SouthEastSleuth]

Here's the quote regarding Raven finding Janet that evening:

"It was their love of soccer, according to family members, that led Raven to go to a soccer game Tuesday night. When he returned, he went to Kaiden's room and kissed him good night. Raven discovered his wife's body moments later in another part of the house, according to one of his brothers."


And here's the link the the article, again WTVD news:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/042805_NW_abaroa.html

[newkid]

I thought of a couple of things as I tried to catch up here.

Janet was found face up, I think that's in the warrant, but we don't know how Raven found her do we? If she was sitting at the computer or face down or in another position he could have moved her to see if there were something to do to help her. I think without knowing how Raven found her, any of the other scenarios are possible (her sitting at the computer or being chased upstairs).

One other thing about the computer, are there any situations where LE could take it without a warrant? If Raven volunteered to let them check it out or if it were covered in blood or something?

[Timex]

hmmm So was his assumption that Janet was already in bed? Again, just going from what our "norm" is. When my husband comes in, I almost always go meet him as he comes in. If I dont, he calls out "where ya at?" Not sure why we do it that way...just always have.

[newkid]

If it was indeed a pick up game though, time may not really matter. I used to live across the street from a school and there was a pick up game there that lasted all afternoon on Sunday with the same guys playing the whole time.

[Timex]

If it was indeed a pick up game though, time may not really matter. I used to live across the street from a school and there was a pick up game there that lasted all afternoon on Sunday with the same guys playing the whole time.

Right, unless the co-worker had been communicating with her shortly before Raven supposedly found her. That wouldnt have allowed him time to do much clean-up.

[golfmom]

Sorry ya'll I got distracted with the kids ... just in case no one's posted this:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/042805_NW_abaroa.html

...4th article on the media thread

It was their love of soccer, according to family members, that led Raven to go to a soccer game Tuesday night. When he returned, he went to Kaiden's room and kissed him good night. Raven discovered his wife's body moments later in another part of the house, according to one of his brothers.
..........

So based on this article, it doesn't appear that the house was noticably disturbed to Raven when he came in and upstairs.

[Timex]

Sorry ya'll I got distracted with the kids ... just in case no one's posted this:

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/042805_NW_abaroa.html

...4th article on the media thread

It was their love of soccer, according to family members, that led Raven to go to a soccer game Tuesday night. When he returned, he went to Kaiden's room and kissed him good night. Raven discovered his wife's body moments later in another part of the house, according to one of his brothers.
..........

So based on this article, it doesn't appear that the house was noticably disturbed to Raven when he came in and upstairs.

And he didnt find it strange that Janet wasnt around? Was she usually in bed by this time? Was Kaiden on a schedule? Its hard not knowing what the "norm" was in the household.

[lauriej]

..i still don't understand his choice of words.........

...on the 911 call, he says she's been shot...........when LE arrives he says she's "upstairs hurt"....and he's NOT up there trying to save her...

...if he had previously tried all he could to save her, he would then have told LE , she's upstairs dead....

[Timex]

..i still don't understand his choice of words.........

...on the 911 call, he says she's been shot...........when LE arrives he says she's "upstairs hurt"....and he's NOT up there trying to save her...

...if he had previously tried all he could to save her, he would then have told LE , she's upstairs dead....

Ive thought about this too, thats why I asked if he was holding Kaiden when LE arrived.

[lauriej]

but if he had just been in with kaiden...the goodnite kiss...and then discovered his 'hurt' , shot, wife..........i would think he would then be all over her doing all he could to save her.....comfort her....rather than going back in and getting kaiden right then...

[Timex]

but if he had just been in with kaiden...the goodnite kiss...and then discovered his 'hurt' , shot, wife..........i would think he would then be all over her doing all he could to save her.....comfort her....rather than going back in and getting kaiden right then...

Well, thats something I cant say for sure. I can only compare it to how I reacted in crisis mode, and even though I knew my husband may well be dead by the time I saw him again, my first response was for my kids.

[lauriej]

true enough........so, he finds janet, all that blood....panics, thinking the killer may still be around ( or whatever) grabs kaiden...runs outside , calls 911, and waits for LE...

...sure be nice if we could hear that 911 call.....

[Timex]

true enough........so, he finds janet, all that blood....panics, thinking the killer may still be around ( or whatever) grabs kaiden...runs outside , calls 911, and waits for LE...

...sure be nice if we could hear that 911 call.....

Thats one scenario...or, it could be that he knew janet was beyond help because he is the one that inflicted the wounds.

Did he call 911 from his cell phone?

[SouthEastSleuth]

This may have already been pointed out, and if so, I apologize (my head is in evidence-mode-spinning-form today!)

But I think we can safely CONFIRM that Janet's body was indeed in the OFFICE of the house. The narrative calls it a bedroom, but I think we've established it was a bedroom being used as an office.

If you look at the search warrant, item #21. "Swabbing/Control" Then noted at bottom: "#21 from opposite wall of victim in office.

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=10;w=800


And one other thing. If you look at item #13 (see link below)... it says something that LOOKS like "Standard - Office Carpet" I've enlarged it, etc., but I'm not sure the first word is actually "Standard." And if so, what does that phrase/item indicate?

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=13;w=800

[lauriej]

i don't know what kind of phone he called from...there was a cell phone taken by LE...

http://www.wral.com/news/4443707/detail.html

http://images.ibsys.com/ral-structure/images/structures/buttons/button_enlarge.gif
http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0429/4429017_200X150.jpg (http://www.wral.com/news/4443707/detail.html#) Janet Abaroa



Investigators stayed on the scene nearly 24 hours collecting evidence. Some of the items seized include a block of knives, financial items, including a checkbook and loan papers and a cell phone.

[Timex]

i don't know what kind of phone he called from...there was a cell phone taken by LE...

http://www.wral.com/news/4443707/detail.html

http://images.ibsys.com/ral-structure/images/structures/buttons/button_enlarge.gif
http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0429/4429017_200X150.jpg (http://www.wral.com/news/4443707/detail.html#) Janet Abaroa



Investigators stayed on the scene nearly 24 hours collecting evidence. Some of the items seized include a block of knives, financial items, including a checkbook and loan papers and a cell phone.


The only reason I asked was you had said he called LE from outside...I would find that strange.

[Timex]

This may have already been pointed out, and if so, I apologize (my head is in evidence-mode-spinning-form today!)

But I think we can safely CONFIRM that Janet's body was indeed in the OFFICE of the house. The narrative calls it a bedroom, but I think we've established it was a bedroom being used as an office.

If you look at the search warrant, item #21. "Swabbing/Control" Then noted at bottom: "#21 from opposite wall of victim in office.

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=10;w=800


And one other thing. If you look at item #13 (see link below)... it says something that LOOKS like "Standard - Office Carpet" I've enlarged it, etc., but I'm not sure the first word is actually "Standard." And if so, what does that phrase/item indicate?

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=13;w=800

I think "standard" refers to the type of testing conducted. If we look, we see "trace" was conducted on hands etc..."standard" was conducted on carpet. But thats just the way Im reading it...could be wrong.

[lauriej]

i was just speculating that going with the theory where he doesn't get down and try to help janet.............that he would grab the baby and get out of the house.....

[lauriej]

And one other thing. If you look at item #13 (see link below)... it says something that LOOKS like "Standard - Office Carpet" I've enlarged it, etc., but I'm not sure the first word is actually "Standard." And if so, what does that phrase/item indicate?

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=13;w=800
.........i just asked my daughter what she thought the word was........without giving her 'standard' as an option.........her initial impression is that it says 'stained'.......

[golfmom]

I don't find it strange if he called from outside. I frequently use my land line phone outside. I'd find it strange if he didn't have Kaiden in his arms when LE showed up though.

[Timex]

Question for NCbanker..or anyone else that is familiar with the home...

Is it well marked? Meaning, is the address easily noticable from the road?

Could he have been waiting outside because he was concerned that 911 would miss the driveway? Was he near the end of the driveway, as to help them locate the house...or was he up by the house when 911 arrived?

[lauriej]

page 3 of the warrant:

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=3;w=800

...descibing the house....the house # sign..length of driveway etc.....

[SouthEastSleuth]

Question for NCbanker..or anyone else that is familiar with the home...

Is it well marked? Meaning, is the address easily noticable from the road?

Could he have been waiting outside because he was concerned that 911 would miss the driveway? Was he near the end of the driveway, as to help them locate the house...or was he up by the house when 911 arrived?
The house is set back off the road....gravel drive. But, at the end of the driveway, almost on the curb of Ferrand, there is a white sign, with the house numbers clearly painted....

[Timex]

page 3 of the warrant:

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=3;w=800

...descibing the house....the house # sign..length of driveway etc.....

Yes, I had read the description, but I was more interested in just how easy it would be to find the house in the dark, by someone that had not been there before.

[cappuccina]

the "standard" vs. "trace" on the carpet means...take one sample of carpet that you see blood/body fluids on (trace evidence), and one sample of the SAME carpet from somewhere else in the room that obviously does not have the trace evidence on it??

[Timex]

The house is set back off the road....gravel drive. But, at the end of the driveway, almost on the curb of Ferrand, there is a white sign, with the house numbers clearly painted....


thanks... so there is no way anyone could miss finding the home in the dark. That was my question.

[Timex]

the "standard" vs. "trace" on the carpet means...take one sample of carpet that you see blood/body fluids on (trace evidence), and one sample of the SAME carpet from somewhere else in the room that obviously does not have the trace evidence on it??

But I didnt see anything about them taking trace evidence from the carpet...only standard? Or did I miss it?

[lauriej]

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=3;w=800

...i also can't help but wonder why, in describing the house etc, that ONLY the durango is mentioned,..............where are all of the other vehicles ??


...it was said that he 'gave the jeep away'.........was that after the murder ?

[Timex]

lauriej...I had the same question. Even if he had already given the jeep away..Janet had a car, right? Or am I confused on these vehicles?

[SouthEastSleuth]

But I didnt see anything about them taking trace evidence from the carpet...only standard? Or did I miss it?
There was another item on the seach warrant, #25, that refers to "swabbing & control" and notes that it is "from the carpet below the victim."

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=10;w=800

[Timex]

from the timeline thread...

Raven had 4 cars/motorcycles at the time he was fired from Eurosport: An Acura 3.0 CL, a Dodge Durango, a VX (just 1 and it was originally white) and his motorcycle. The jeep he apparently owned, he gave to a friend

so, there should have been a Durango, an Acura, a motorcycle and the VX at the house, right?

[Timex]

There was another item on the seach warrant, #25, that refers to "swabbing & control" and notes that it is "from the carpet below the victim."

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=10;w=800


hmmm so that would be 2 samples...one is a control sample and one a swabbing of "something" on the carpet?

[SouthEastSleuth]

lauriej...I had the same question. Even if he had already given the jeep away..Janet had a car, right? Or am I confused on these vehicles?
According to what we know, they still owned the VX, the Dodge Durango, and the Acura that belonged to Janet. He may have still owned the Ducati motorcycle, no idea if and when it sold, just that he was trying to sell it. We also know he had been trying to sell the VX. But, we were told by someone at the funeral that he was driving it that day.

Someone did post that he had been parking the VX up on a busy street, with a for sale sign. Maybe it was in that location that evening? But even then, that still leaves Janet's Acura unaccounted for...

[LadyGraffix@mac.com]

I read somewhere that the carpet had been removed from the steps. Perhaps there were footprints on the carpet?

I read the same thing in captions of the photos that NCB posted . . . I'm curious though, how do we know there was carpet there to be removed? I couldn't tell from the photos if there was any tell-tale signs of the carpet being recently removed, so it made me a little curious. I have two sets of stairs in my home and neither are covered in carpet.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I have another thought, possiblity, what have you , regarding the computer(s).

I was looking at the picture from ravenstree.com, the one taken April 24, 2005, with Raven at the computer, with Kaiden in his lap. I wonder if it's possible that instead of having a traditional desktop, if Raven in fact had only the laptop, and used a port to connect it to the monitor? That way the laptop is always flexible..you just pull it out of the port, and off you go. I enlarged the pic and brightened it, but I couldn't really tell much... looks like it might be a flat screen monitor, but otherwise I couldn't really tell if there might be a docking port there for a laptop or not.....

Even so, if that were the case, and the laptop had been removed from the port, the keyboard and monitor would still presumably be there....

[SouthEastSleuth]

I read the same thing in captions of the photos that NCB posted . . . I'm curious though, how do we know there was carpet there to be removed? I couldn't tell from the photos if there was any tell-tale signs of the carpet being recently removed, so it made me a little curious. I have two sets of stairs in my home and neither are covered in carpet.
Good point. And I think we would have to defer to NCBanker to respond to that... maybe he noticed some sort of evidence that would indicate the stairs had been carpeted, ie., tack strips or something? I have no idea. There IS carpet for sure in the office,etc., upstairs. You can clearly see it with the pictures of Kaiden on the floor, etc.

[JerseyGirl]

Look at the search warrant again - page 13 - when I first read those two lines about the "paper in foyer," I read the descriptions as "closest to door" and "closest to bathroom." When you mentioned "closet," I looked again and you're right - that's exactly what it says. But I think maybe the officer just didn't spell "closest" correctly. "Closet to door" just doesn't make any sense.You're right. I had mentioned that to my daughter - we were looking at the search warrant together, and neither of us could figure out what the heck it meant. So you might be right about them being on the floor. I wonder if they could be papers that Janet held about which to confront Raven when he arrived home or something along those lines. How I'd love to know what those papers were.

[JerseyGirl]

If Janet WAS in the middle of IMing, whatever, and Kaiden started crying, she could have been distracted. She could have been distracted by the telephone even.Yes, but it doesn't take long to type "brb".

[JerseyGirl]

When he came in the house, wouldn't he have seen the blood on the door? The blood on the carpet on the stairs?

Ok, so maybe he did, and he was then running to check on Kaiden and then found Janet... Plausible I suppose.Except that he didn't claim to check on Kaiden; he claimed to kiss him goodnight.

[JerseyGirl]

While I was out today, I noticed an Acura in front of me with NC plates. It was a young guy wearing a baseball cap, and it got me to thinking about the Abaroas and their vehicles. If vehicles were seized during a search, would they be listed on the search warrant? Could they be the missing items #1, 2, and 3?

[JerseyGirl]

Game structure: A soccer game consists of two halves that must be of equal length in their prescribed duration, with a required timeout for halftime in between. In adult soccer, the prescribed duration is 45 minutes.45 minutes??? That's quite a long half-time!

[LadyGraffix@mac.com]

I had just assumed the fields were lighted. I know all of our sports complexes have lighting for night games.

Good assumption, I had thought the same thing. But it now occurs to me that someone has to pay for that lighting, and I've never seen a park or field that was just routinely lit for anyone who might come up. Organized recreational leagues that I've been associated with in my area have a hard time getting lighted fields for anything except league games. Also, in our area posted signs at local parks list open times as being from sunrise to sunset, so no provided lighting there either.

Maybe someone from that area can fill us in on the norm around NC?

[JerseyGirl]

I thought of a couple of things as I tried to catch up here.

Janet was found face up, I think that's in the warrant, but we don't know how Raven found her do we? If she was sitting at the computer or face down or in another position he could have moved her to see if there were something to do to help her.Except then it would be clear to him that she had been stabbed, and not shot.

[Rooster]

When I was 13 my mother died in our home. My sister called 911 while my Dad and brother tried CPR. And I ran outside and stood on the curb waiting to see a police car, fire truck SOMEONE! too save my mom. I wanted to be out there to flag them down, save time, get them too her as fast as I could. There is NO way they could have missed our house. But I didn't want them to have to waist one precoius second looking to see if it was our house. THIS IS US! HELP! I belive this is how Raven felt on that night as well.

[Timex]

Here we have several fields side by side, so all are lit almost every night, even if all arent scheduled to be used. I know my daughters softball team often has games that start as late