Breaking News Natalie Holloway

[railbird]

Suspect confesses to killing.

Healline News scroll.

[PsychesKnot]

News is sketchy, CNN reporter on the island says there is a search in progress in a specific general area, seems to be for recovery of a body. No indication of which suspect confessed, as the CNN scroll says.


From an earlier news story:


The mother of the 17-year-old insisted her son is innocent.

"It was just real bad luck that these three boys were involved," said Anita Van Der Sloot, the suspect's mother.



FOX News also now reporting that one of the three teens has now confessed to killing her. No indication which one.

Rick Leventhal on scene near the lighthouse, says there is no search visible. Says one of the boys will lead police to the body.

[harleysnana]

I just heard!
The suspect is leading them to her.
This is too sad.
God bless her family at this sad time.

[Rachael]

I feel so bad for her mother. How horrible. I have a feeling one of the brothers confessed (I could be wrong). Juran just seems like an arrogant kid. I wouldn't be shocked if he was the one who killed Natalee and the other two helped cover it up. I hope the two guards had nothing to do with it.

[Linda7NJ]

Fox News:( Suspect agrees to lead LE to her body

[turbosleuthing]

Aruba police official: Suspect confesses to killing missing teen


http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html

[newtv]

Fox News:( Suspect will lead LE to her body
OMG - I am so sorry for that family-thx for reporting it as I did not know and was watching intently this week- I was thinking the dad might have known too-as he referred to her in the past tense quite often. I picked up on that but then didnt want to make anything of it since he could have been stressed to the max and using language that way.

[iambehaving]

Ooooooooooooooh My... Running to see if anything is online about it. Thanks for the heads up.

[Linda7NJ]

Check the AP news wire. I am not on my own computer and don't have the link handy.

[newtv]

oh great and cnn is interviewing or playing an interview I should say of richard nixon-go figure..

i googled and nothing yet..CNN had it on its banner but there is a stupid interview (taped) going on.

[Luanne]

I am so sorry to hear this. I'm sending my warmest condolences to her family. I know we were all hoping for a different outcome, but at least there will be some kind of closure eventually....but what a waste. So much promise & opportunity.

Does anyone know where we could send sympathy cards to the family?

[PsychesKnot]

"Something bad happened."

Fox has gone live to an Alabama station reporting this news.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8169252/

[Dark Knight]

Police: Suspect admits to killing teen

ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - New developments in the case of an
Alabama teen who disappeared while on a school trip in Aruba.
Police in Aruba say one of three young men who took her to
the beach has confessed that he killed her.
A police official tells The Associated Press that the man
is leading police to the scene of the crime.
Natalee Holloway was last seen on May 30th.

(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All Rights
Reserved.)

AP-NY-06-11-05 0014EDT

[PsychesKnot]

Mai Martinez reporting from Aruba, seems to be with or near Natalee's family. Says there is some confusion, moving away from the lighthouse area and back toward police station.

AP CORRECTION:
Says suspect did NOT confess, only said "something bad happened."

[Leila]

I'm watching Fox News right now and heard the annoucement. They're just clarifying that the suspect didn't confess to killing her, but said he would take them to the scene of where "something bad had happened."

I too feel bad for her family.

(we need a "sad" emoticon)

[iambehaving]

CNN has it on their main page.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html

[sharon25]

Mai Martinez reporting from Aruba, seems to be with or near Natalee's family. Says there is some confusion, moving away from the lighthouse area and back toward police station.

AP CORRECTION:
Says suspect did NOT confess, only said "something bad happened."
I hate when they are in such a rush to be the first ones to print
the story that they get it wrong...
cnn is still reporting that she's killed..

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html

[ShowerSinger]

I don't know how they got the confession, but I hope someone mustered up a conscience, and it eats up all of those involved. So sad, so unnecessary. Prayers for her family, friends, and us. This could have happened anywhere, to anyone of our loved ones.
She won't be forgotten, she touched so many.
Thanks for the updates. Sad, as they are.

[SauerKraut]

I hate when they are in such a rush to be the first ones to print
the story that they get it wrong...
cnn is still reporting that she's killed..

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html

How awful, how hearbreaking.....those rotten bastards should be ashamed for letting this go on this long. I too hope those other two security gurards are innocent. Seems the story of dropping her off and them seeing those two is now just crap. Bastards! Trying to blame someone else like that and them now sitting in jail. I don't know if I could contain myself if I was one of the security guards once I got out. :furious: :behindbar

[kpass]

Oh God, I hope this is not true. I had a power outage for a few hours here, but heard it on a battery operated radio. First they said one of the suspects confessed, now they're saying he said "something bad happened to Natalee."

My thoughts & prayers are with her poor mother tonight.

[SauerKraut]

Why do I have this feeling her body is somewhere on this Joran's property.

[Sassygerl]

Sad sad news.....my thoughts and prayers are with Natalee and her family. I have always felt like this was not an intentional killing...we will see. I think it's possible they gave her some kind of drug, that mixed with alcohol was lethal. I just don't see the need for them to kill her considering they're locals and had many girlfriends I'm assuming from what I could tell from webpages. Maybe she fought back, but being drunk and not use to drinking it's not likely, but possible, I just see this as something they didn't mean to happen. I am by NO means excusing the actions of these boys....I think it's horrible, but I am just saying I think she died and they freaked......in time we will know so please don't bash me for my opinion :D

[cynder]

Well, Natalee isn't in the hospital, she hasn't been seen anywhere and "something bad" happened to her according to a suspect - sure would make most people assume she was dead. This isn't a movie - don't think they have her captive somewhere or sold her to so called white slavers. To me, something bad says Natalee is buried on the beach after one, two or three local boys MADE the "something bad" happen TO Natalee. Otherwise they would have reacted like normal people and gotten help (like in the case of an accident or she passed out or something similar). Something bad tries very hard to make it sound like an innocent mistake or accident, but then why wait almost 2 weeks to say that? Waiting and hoping there won't be enough of Natalee left for investigation? Sorry, know it is "blech" but decomp erases DNA, cause of death and circumstances of death and I think these boys are counting on that fact to make it look like an accident when it was not. Just another lie and another misdirection from 3 boys who seem to be pretty good at covering things up. They should have kept them in custody - alone and away from family from the 1st day and this would have been solved in a few days at most. Aruba LE messed up on the handling of these boys from the beginning. Not jaded enough probably to believe 3 "nice boys" did something like this.

[Casshew]

This girl had so much to live for, such a bright future. :(

Very sad ending.

[SauerKraut]

Sad sad news.....my thoughts and prayers are with Natalee and her family. I have always felt like this was not an intentional killing...we will see. I think it's possible they gave her some kind of drug, that mixed with alcohol was lethal. I just don't see the need for them to kill her considering they're locals and had many girlfriends I'm assuming from what I could tell from webpages. Maybe she fought back, but being drunk and not use to drinking it's not likely, but possible, I just see this as something they didn't mean to happen. I am by NO means excusing the actions of these boys....I think it's horrible, but I am just saying I think she died and they freaked......in time we will know so please don't bash me for my opinion :D

I have a hunch one of those brothers confessed that he KNEW what happened and he's turning in his friend (Joran.) It will be interesting to see where they find her considering they did such an intensive search.

Awful, just heartbreaking. I rather think this is not an accident but rather a case of impaired, uncontrolled judgement by some heartless punks who thought they were entitled to whatever they wanted, including prosecution escape. If it was such an accident, why put everyone through this for so long? Little f0^ck%$s!

[Sassygerl]

I can just see if they had given her some type of drug, planning on having "their way" with her, then she dies they would freak and bury her. I am in NO WAY saying what they did is ok or anything even close to that, I just feel like they didn't intentionally kill her. Intentionally rape...YES, kill....no....JMO.

[Rachael]

I can just see if they had given her some type of drug, planning on having "their way" with her, then she dies they would freak and bury her. I am in NO WAY saying what they did is ok or anything even close to that, I just feel like they didn't intentionally kill her. Intentionally rape...YES, kill....no....JMO.

I think it is a possibility. They could have drugged her. If they raped her she easily could have vomited and choked to death with the combination of being in extreme distress, drugs and alcohol. Poor girl! She really did have a bright future ahead of her.

[Sassygerl]

I have a hunch one of those brothers confessed that he KNEW what happened and he's turning in his friend (Joran.) It will be interesting to see where they find her considering they did such an intensive search.

Awful, just heartbreaking. I rather think this is not an accident but rather a case of impaired, uncontrolled judgement by some heartless punks who thought they were entitled to whatever they wanted, including prosecution escape. If it was such an accident, why put everyone through this for so long? Little f0^ck%$s!

Agreed...but I also keep in mind they are young...Joran is 17. I remember being that age.....we are all immortal at that age. Keep in mind I don't think what happened is right at all.....but they are young, and they I'm sure were scared....of course they will lie and cover up.....OF course!!!!! I was never put in that position thankfully.......

[SauerKraut]

Well, Natalee isn't in the hospital, she hasn't been seen anywhere and "something bad" happened to her according to a suspect - sure would make most people assume she was dead. This isn't a movie - don't think they have her captive somewhere or sold her to so called white slavers. To me, something bad says Natalee is buried on the beach after one, two or three local boys MADE the "something bad" happen TO Natalee. Otherwise they would have reacted like normal people and gotten help (like in the case of an accident or she passed out or something similar). Something bad tries very hard to make it sound like an innocent mistake or accident, but then why wait almost 2 weeks to say that? Waiting and hoping there won't be enough of Natalee left for investigation? Sorry, know it is "blech" but decomp erases DNA, cause of death and circumstances of death and I think these boys are counting on that fact to make it look like an accident when it was not. Just another lie and another misdirection from 3 boys who seem to be pretty good at covering things up. They should have kept them in custody - alone and away from family from the 1st day and this would have been solved in a few days at most. Aruba LE messed up on the handling of these boys from the beginning. Not jaded enough probably to believe 3 "nice boys" did something like this.

Just saw your post after I put mine up. This is how I feel about it too, that if it was such an accident, they would have told someone right away. I think with their little court date coming tomorrow morning, they broke down.

My husband and I are anti TV so I'm relying on the web and WS. Keep up the updates!

[twinkiesmom]

I just see this as something they didn't mean to happen. I am by NO means excusing the actions of these boys....I think it's horrible, but I am just saying I think she died and they freaked......in time we will know so please don't bash me for my opinion :D

No way! He or they thought she was going to put out, but she was just a nice, innocent girl who was not used to alcohol. She said no and was raped and killed. That's the most likely scenario.

She didn't just die...she was killed...probably strangled or suffocated.

I can't believe anyone would feel sorry for "the boys." They were predators.

[Sassygerl]

Just saw your post after I put mine up. This is how I feel about it too, that if it was such an accident, they would have told someone right away. I think with their little court date coming tomorrow morning, they broke down.

My husband and I are anti TV so I'm relying on the web and WS. Keep up the updates!

If she was drunk and they had their way with her and then something happened and she died they WOULD NOT go for help!!!!! They'd be freaking......they're young....not excusable, but I can understand how they would be scared to say anything after "having their fun" with her.

[Dark Knight]

AP CORRECTION:
Says suspect did NOT confess, only said "something bad happened."
ORANJESTAD, Aruba (AP) - One of three young men who took an
Alabama teenager to the beach during a high school graduation
trip to Aruba says "something bad happened" to her.
The deputy police commissioner tells The Associated Press
that the man agreed to lead police to the scene.
Eighteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared May 30th
while on a five-day trip to the Caribbean island with 124
classmates and seven chaperones celebrating their graduation from
Mountain Brook High School, near Birmingham, Alabama. Police
found her U-S passport and packed bags in her hotel room.
Three men -- two brothers from Suriname and a Dutch student
-- were arrested Thursday. They are 17, 18 and 21.

[ccoaster]

If she was drunk and they had their way with her and then something happened and she died they WOULD NOT go for help!!!!! They'd be freaking......they're young....not excusable, but I can understand how they would be scared to say anything after "having their fun" with her.Fox News says that the police and being tight-lipped.
One of the 3 young men said something bad happened to Natalie, however, there is not anything that is really definite.
What a shame, if this is true.

[Sassygerl]

No way! He or they thought she was going to put out, but she was just a nice, innocent girl who was not used to alcohol. She said no and was raped and killed. That's the most likely scenario.

She didn't just die...she was killed...probably strangled or suffocated.

I can't believe anyone would feel sorry for "the boys." They were predators.

Why hadn't they killed all the others in the past?????? I am in not way feeling sorry for these boys....geez. I am just saying I can see how she might have died and they freaked...that's all.

[Rachael]

If they said something bad happened to her and they are leading police to the scene I think there is basically no chance of her being alive. They would have found her by now if she was alive. I am surprised with all of the searching that they didn't find her body.

[Sassygerl]

If they said something bad happened to her and they are leading police to the scene I think there is basically no chance of her being alive. They would have found her by now if she was alive. I am surprised with all of the searching that they didn't find her body.

Absolutely...I think she was buried deep in the sand......we'll see....

[Casshew]

Women tourists are often targeted for rape - especially at the end of their trip, the rapist knows she will just want to get the hell off the island and home to fer family - not stick around to file charges.

This could have been something like that, but it went bad and she was hurt or killed.

[kpass]

If they said something bad happened to her and they are leading police to the scene I think there is basically no chance of her being alive. They would have found her by now if she was alive. I am surprised with all of the searching that they didn't find her body.

AND, didn't they use dogs in the search? I'd think if they were cadavers, they would have picked up her scent.

[Sassygerl]

AND, didn't they use dogs in the search? I'd think if they were cadavers, they would have picked up her scent.

From what I heard, they didn't have the resources for cadaver dogs.

[LinasK]

Women tourists are often targeted for rape - especially at the end of their trip, the rapist knows she will just want to get the hell off the island and home to fer family - not stick around to file charges.

This could have been something like that, but it went bad and she was hurt or killed.
Another tragic waste of a young female targeted for just one thing!:sick: :furious: And the suspect Joran looks like an arrogant pig! I could believe he's capable of rape!:razz:

[SauerKraut]

Absolutely...I think she was buried deep in the sand......we'll see....

I don't know how intense the search was but if they used dogs and with the tide and with them being incapacitated, I woule be surprised that they buried her. I tend to think she's in a place like the abandoned hotel or someplace like that. I don't know. Hard to say.

I do think these guys roughed her up, and lost control and killed her. While I don't think it was necessarily intentional that she would up deceased, I think they assaulted her intentionally and of course they deliberately lied about what happened. This shows some concrete thinking and planning on their part. It's all sick....

And just because there were other girls before that they didn't kill, means nothing in this case. Natalee sounded naive, and maybe let things go to far, not giving herself a 'way out' so to speak. She was probably never in a situation like this, panicked and didn't know how to defend herself. Everything was out of hand. I do think if you talk to other girls, I can bet they had dealt with 'agressive' behavior from them before.

[Rachael]

Women tourists are often targeted for rape - especially at the end of their trip, the rapist knows she will just want to get the hell off the island and home to fer family - not stick around to file charges.

This could have been something like that, but it went bad and she was hurt or killed.


I agree. I believe it is possible that with the combination of alcohol and maybe drugs (if they slipped anything into her drink) she could have easily threw up and choked to death during the rape.

[quickgal]

CNN International is reporting that the confessing suspect said she is dead.

[Sassygerl]

Another tragic waste of a young female targeted for just one thing!:sick: :furious: And the suspect Joran looks like an arrogant pig! I could believe he's capable of rape!:razz:

It's comments like this that make me upset and outraged......we are so poisoned by the media. Had he been the one missing we'd be talking about what a cute kid he is.......think about it for just ONE minute...it's so true!!!!!!!!

Not to excuse him from whatever involvement he had.......

[Rachael]

Another tragic waste of a young female targeted for just one thing!:sick: :furious: And the suspect Joran looks like an arrogant pig! I could believe he's capable of rape!:razz:

Yes he does look arrogant. I wonder if Natalee and Juran had made out. She didn't want to go any further. He thought she was being a 'tease' and he raped her. Maybe in his mind a girl is not permitted to say no to him. Just speculating.

[blueclouds]

I think most 18 yr olds are niave first of all and secondly, many many of them that have "graduated" into adulthood believe they're NOT niave... that they can handle any situation. Maybe the death wasn't planned most likely, BUT the cover up was and there are 2 innocent security men in jail as we speak. Going for the Black men instead of the 3 that were with her seems like racism as it was "hinted" on Nancy Grace the other night.

Good lord, the poor parents that have to take their baby home in a box. Nothing is more sad than that. :( God bless them.

[LinasK]

It's comments like this that make me upset and outraged......we are so poisoned by the media. Had he been the one missing we'd be talking about what a cute kid he is.......think about it for just ONE minute...it's so true!!!!!!!!

Not to excuse him from whatever involvement he had.......Have you seen the picture of the 3 suspects together? Well, I have and I'm entitled to my opinion. I think the other 2 were led into the situation by him, he is the son of a judge and probably believes he's above the law, or his dad will bail him out of any situation. He's got a very cocky, arrogant look about him, with his chin sticking straight up. I would never have said what a cute kid he is with that attitude written all over his face.

Until I can find a better link with the picture of all 3: http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8155048/

[wenchie]

If something happened like she OD'd, I believe they're still guilty of murder. People Od and stop breathing, but are often brought back with medical attention.

If they believed that she had died because of an overdose and buried her rather than taking her to a hospital - IMO opinion they are completely to blame for her death.

[blueclouds]

Yes he does look arrogant. I wonder if Natalee and Juran had made out. She didn't want to go any further. He thought she was being a 'tease' and he raped her. Maybe in his mind a girl is not permitted to say no to him. Just speculating.
I think that's exactly it.... they figured she was a "tease". So a lifetime of heartache is worth it? For all? Heaven help us. My first born is almost 15 and she thinks she's INVINCIBLE as well. :(

[Sassygerl]

Have you seen the picture of the 3 suspects together? Well, I have and I'm entitled to my opinion. I think the other 2 were led into the situation by him, he is the son of a judge and probably believes he's above the law, or his dad will bail him out of any situation. He's got a very cocky, arrogant look about him, with his chin sticking straight up. I would never have said what a cute kid he is with that attitude written all over his face.

I completely understand what you are saying, but I'm sorry you are so judgemental of people just by their looks only!!!!! That is what is sooooooo wrong in this world.

[Rachael]

I believe if they drugged her and she died even by accident they could be found guilty of manslaughter. Not really sure though. They could also be charged with hiding her body and not getting her proper medical attention as well as possibly rape.

[Angelonline]

I thought that if you arrested those 3 and split them up one of them would talk.
Its very sad and my heart goes out to her family. My prayers are with them.

[Sassygerl]

I believe if they drugged her and she died even by accident they could be found guilty of manslaughter. Not really sure though. They could also be charged with hiding her body and not getting her proper medical attention as well as possibly rape.

I think this is the most likely scenario. I believe they should pay for not speaking up for sure.....

[Angelonline]

I think that maybe she is judging by his expressions not his "looks" so to speak, you can tell a lot about a person from the expressions they make. JMO

[ketel0ne]

His blog is now down. But before it was restricted by MSN and the pictures were still up and the verbiage of his post. He calls himself a pimp and most of the shots he looks like a rapper (enimen) style. Young punk.

He also met her in the casino of her hotel 2 days prior, if he hadn't gotten what he wanted from her by the night of taking her to the beach he would have veiwed it as his last chance. He had a lot of time invested.

[Rachael]

I think this is the most likely scenario. I believe they should pay for not speaking up for sure.....


And also for raping her. I do believe there was a rape. I could be wrong of course.

I have to agree though. That Juran kid looks very arrogant to me as well. I have looked at his blog. I am pretty good at reading people.

[blueclouds]

I think this is the most likely scenario. I believe they should pay for not speaking up for sure.....
I suppose an "autopsy" will speak for itself as 12 days isn't that long. A cause of death is very possible, especially if she was buried and NOT in the heat and the weather elements.

I think she was raped and killed personally. I also think she might have been gang raped.

[Sassygerl]

I think that maybe she is judging by his expressions not his "looks" so to speak, you can tell a lot about a person from the expressions they make. JMO

I guess he just looks like a normal teen to me...and yes, I have pics of my oldest son who's a preteen throwing the gang signs (he didn't know what he was doing!) and looking quite "cocky" many would probably say (so I see now) in the pics....

I am just not one to judge by "looks" or expressions in pics only.....afterall, kids pose to look "cool" in pics......I have many "cool" pics of myself at that age!!!!! :D

[fundiva]

I believe if they drugged her and she died even by accident they could be found guilty of manslaughter. Not really sure though. They could also be charged with hiding her body and not getting her proper medical attention as well as possibly rape.
If they provided the drugs I would think it could be murder. Except for their actions, she wouldn't haved died. I really don't think it was an accident, otherwise they wouldn't have tried to cover it up by blaming other people. Sounds like spoiled brats that are used to getting their way; doing whatever they want despite the rules then acting all innocent and never owning up to their responsibilities, but blame other people instead.

[LinasK]

I think that maybe she is judging by his expressions not his "looks" so to speak, you can tell a lot about a person from the expressions they make. JMO
Bingo! Sassygerl, weren't you one of those people who felt Scott Peterson had no soul by looking at his eyes??? The same can be said of Susan Smith.

[Casshew]

I completely understand what you are saying, but I'm sorry you are so judgemental of people just by their looks only!!!!! That is what is sooooooo wrong in this world.
I knew you were a sweetheart the first time I saw your photo, brighteyed, intelligent, kind...

Hope I was right!! :p

[ketel0ne]

http://www.riehlworldview.com/ seems to be on top of the story. Even with the changes.

[cynder]

First they say nothing happened - Natalee was fine- had met Joran earlier in the week and he was her friend and they brought her back to the hotel after going to the lighthouse
Then when it becomes obvious she did not make it back to the hotel (nothing on tape) they say they dropped her off outside the doors and didn't go in
Then they say they saw a "security guard" approach her after she got out of the car
Then they say she was very drunk and they ALL made out with her in the car and there was "intimate touching"
Then they say she was falling down drunk when they brought her back to the hotel and the "security guard" approached her in the parking lot after she fell down and refused their help
So - Natalee goes from happy and fine to being sick in the bathroom earlier in the evening to falling down drunk inthe parking lot
The relationship goes from friends with Joran to making out with Joran at the lighthouse to making out with 3 guys in the same car WITH "intimate touching" on the part of all of them
And she is OK with intimate touching and making out with the 3 guys but refuses their help when she is falling down at the hotel
Lie after Lie after Lie......

I think they forced themselves on Natalee - all 3 of them and at some point she either OD'd, choked, or was strangled/suffocated by one of them. It was dark - if she was really out of it they might not even have realized she was dead until it was all over.
There is no other explanation for them to say they ALL were intimate with her if they all weren't (think DNA evidence) and the ONLY way that happened was that Natalee was unconscious or (ick) dead (and they didn't know it at the time).
The intent WAS rape and that she died or was killed comes directly out of a violent act so they are all guilty IMHO. Intentional or not they are all guilty of at least rape and 2nd degree murder. They caused her death - if they had done the right thing and taken her back to the hotel OR to get help if she was OD'ing or had drunk too much they would not be in the position they are now in. Just one of them doing the right thing and this might have had a different ending - and the lies tell the story.

[PsychesKnot]

I think we all read faces. We all get "feelings" based on face value. It's what left over from our days as a more basic, instinctive animal.

What we see is colored by our own life experience and intuition. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. As long as we couch our "reading" with the proviso that it is just a personal feeling and it's done on a proper forum, such as this, clearly labelled as a crime forum where people discuss possibilities, then why not say what we feel?

Joran's pic made me feel uncomfortable, something a bit off. I got the feeling he was the leader with these two boys tagging along. Now having said that, I could be wrong and one of the other boys actually killed her. It's just an intial feeling after seeing his pic.

Re: the death, as it seems certain now, the fine point to this is intent. If one of them slipped something into her drink, the intent was not murder, it was rape. The death is still criminal and while accidental, it is not an accident in the same vein as a traffic fatality. It is akin to murder during a robbery. A weapon of sorts was used to control a person in order to commit a crime other than murder, yet murder occurred. I hope Dutch law has some severe penalties for such a death.

Casshew is very right about targetting female tourists on their "last day". I think this happens on cruise ships as well. It's not just tourists either. Many years ago, I was moving away from Florida and on my last day of work, a male co-worker who knew I was already packed and leaving the state within the day, made some very aggressive moves. I got away unscathed and put them down to him just being a creep. But just reading what Cass posted; that made me remember the incident for just what it could have been had I not been so wary and made a quick move.

Edited to add: I bet this is not the first time this kid or maybe even all three have tried this sort of thing. There may be girls out there who don't even recall something happening with this boy, if they were drugged as well. You would think they might have seen his pic by now and come forward though.

[Angelonline]

I am just not one to judge by "looks" or expressions in pics only.....afterall, kids pose to look "cool" in pics......I have many "cool" pics of myself at that age!!!!! :D
I see what your saying, I have 2 teen girls and 1 preteen and they do try to look cool in pics, but I don't think they look arrogant like this guy does. But I do see what you mean.. :)

[Sassygerl]

I knew you were a sweetheart the first time I saw your photo, brighteyed, intelligent, kind...

Hope I was right!! :p

Thanks Cass :) I am sure to many I would look smug, arrogant, etc.... :D

ETA: yes you are right :D

[Sassygerl]

Bingo! Sassygerl, weren't you one of those people who felt Scott Peterson had no soul by looking at his eyes??? The same can be said of Susan Smith.

Nope, not me. I was one who said the same thing regarding him...that his looks wouldn't be so ragged had he not murdered Laci. I'm sorry...I just don't judge a book by it's cover, and never will......

[wenchie]

I think you're correct.

And I also think (as I said above), that they may have thought she was dead from an overdose, but that she may have been able to be saved if they had gotten her emergency treatment instead of disposing of her for their own selfish reasons.

[Sassygerl]

I think you're correct.

And I also think (as I said above), that they may have thought she was dead from an overdose, but that she may have been able to be saved if they had gotten her emergency treatment instead of disposing of her for their own selfish reasons.

I've yet to meet many teenagers who are NOT selfish.....and dealing with this age they aren't so much thinking about being selfish as being scared. Does anyone remember the age of 17???? I do.....it wasn't that long ago :rolleyes:

[PsychesKnot]

I don't know if this is an older link, if so I apologize.

http://www.legendgames.net/showstory.asp?page=blognews/stories/WN0000203.txt
One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway's friends said Thursday.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said

As depicted in the second image, many of the pictures associated with the young men seem to depict an adolescent lifestyle modeled on a presumably faux "gangsta" style, also often played at by many middle and upper-middle class youth in America today.

In a webpage maintained by Van der Sloot's younger brother which was viewed earlier today at Tickle dot com he listed his occupation as "Pimp." The web page is not being linked as his age is unknown and he has not been implicated in this incident.

[LinasK]

I think we all read faces. We all get "feelings" based on face value. It's what left over from our days as a more basic, instinctive animal.

What we see is colored by our own life experience and intuition. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. As long as we couch our "reading" with the proviso that it is just a personal feeling and it's done on a proper forum, such as this, clearly labelled as a crime forum where people discuss possibilities, then why not say what we feel?

Joran's pic made me feel uncomfortable, something a bit off. I got the feeling he was the leader with these two boys tagging along. Now having said that, I could be wrong and one of the other boys actually killed her. It's just an intial feeling after seeing his pic.


Even babies read human faces and recognize their mothers faces and give preference to smiling faces...

[Angelonline]

One of the worse things to me is blaming these other 2 guards I dont think they had a thing to do with it, just had a reputation of trying to pick up tourists and the guys knew this and used it against them. These 3 boys lied over and over and some of the things make me wonder if dear old dad didnt give them counsel on how to get themselves out of this situation... would 3 young men think to blame someone else on their own??

[Sassygerl]

I see what your saying, I have 2 teen girls and 1 preteen and they do try to look cool in pics, but I don't think they look arrogant like this guy does. But I do see what you mean.. :)

He wouldn't look so arrogant in the pics if your kids brought the pics home with this person in the pics with them. The media is poisonous.....once again....I am not excusing the actions of these guys!!!!!

[ketel0ne]

Natalee Holloway: Possible Location Update

According to unconfirmed sources the search for Natalee Holloway may be leading to the Cana****o Caves area south of Hooiberg, which is the only mountain on the island, off the beaten track and reported known for a set of caves. Here is a link (http://www.aruba.com/qtvr/casihoo1.htm) to a scrollable image to the mountain area.

[wenchie]

I've yet to meet many teenagers who are NOT selfish.....and dealing with this age they aren't so much thinking about being selfish as being scared. Does anyone remember the age of 17???? I do.....it wasn't that long ago :rolleyes:

Sure.....I remember being seventeen (although is was a loooong time ago). I did A LOT of reckless things, but if I thought one of my friends was dead or dying from an overdose, I would have rushed them to the hospital, not buried them on the beach!

Anyone who wasn't raised by wolves would NOT be able to do such a thing.

[Sassygerl]

One of the worse things to me is blaming these other 2 guards I dont think they had a thing to do with it, just had a reputation of trying to pick up tourists and the guys knew this and used it against them. These 3 boys lied over and over and some of the things make me wonder if dear old dad didnt give them counsel on how to get themselves out of this situation... would 3 young men think to blame someone else on their own??

I think it's normal in most situations to CYA...esp. in a situation like this if she did die from drugs/alcohol. I am not saying that is what happened, but I have a hunch......

[Sassygerl]

Sure.....I remember being seventeen (although is was a loooong time ago). I did A LOT of reckless things, but if I thought one of my friends was dead or dying from an overdose, I would have rushed them to the hospital, not buried them on the beach!

Anyone who wasn't raised by wolves would NOT be able to do such a thing.

But we're not talking about a friend...we're talking about someone they more than likely raped.

[ketel0ne]

2am EST CNN re reports that suspect confesses to killing.

CNN International is LIVE.

[wenchie]

I don't see any difference. If they raped her, she overdosed, and they stuffed her in a cave instead of taking her to a hospital - I'd call them murderers.......even if all three weren't involved in the rape (which....we don't even know happened, yet)

[blueclouds]

Looks like "Joran" is NOT in his cell according to several Blogs. :( Sadly, he's the one that has "confessed" to "killing" Natalee. Good heavens.

Now to get this straight, is Joran one of the brothers or the Judges Son? I cannot remember.

[ketel0ne]

Judges son.

[LinasK]

Looks like "Joran" is NOT in his cell according to several Blogs. :( Sadly, he's the one that has "confessed" to "killing" Natalee. Good heavens.

Now to get this straight, is Joran one of the brothers or the Judges Son? I cannot remember.
The Judge's son- he's the one I had pegged. He just looks like he thinks he's above the law!

[Angelonline]

I don't see any difference. If they raped her, she overdosed, and they stuffed her in a cave instead of taking her to a hospital - I'd call them murderers.......even if all three weren't involved in the rape (which....we don't even know happened, yet)
I agree!!!!!!
I think the 2 biggest problems with todays youth are selfishness and no personal accountabilty........ and it upsets me to see anyone trying to explain away bad behavior.

[LinasK]

I agree!!!!!!
I think the 2 biggest problems with todays youth are selfishness and no personal accountabilty........ and it upsets me to see anyone trying to explain away bad behavior.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[blueclouds]

The Judge's son- he's the one I had pegged. He just looks like he thinks he's above the law!
Humpf!!! Thankx. No kidding! Like the Preachers kids that do everything they can to ...... commit sins?!!!???

Poor little lady. Had so much promise in her life.

[Sassygerl]

The Judge's son- he's the one I had pegged. He just looks like he thinks he's above the law!

Obviously, of the three, he would be the one Natalee would choose to be with....when he's dogged for his "looks" you're dogging Natalee's perception of people.

[BigTex]

It is natural to react to the expressions and body language of others - it is a defense mechanism that helps all animals (man too) in identifying and evaluating a potential threat. The problem is that this simple "gut feeling" is based upon personal experience and social stigmas. If you were bitten by a dog as a child then you tend to look at most dogs behaviour as vaguely threatening. I am sure that this young man is probably cocky and arrogant - most fledgling adult males are. We don't know which of the three suspects told the police about "something bad happening" but if one killed her then certainly the other two were aware of it and at the very least concealed what they knew and at the worst were willing participants in murder or concealing of her body. There are a whole slew of "bad things" that might have happened - she might have fallen, alcohol poisoning, or been hit by the car.....all by accident. On the other hand they might have drugged or intentionally harmed or killed her. We simply don't know yet and making judgements on one young man's looks as to how he might have acted is truly unfair.

We will have to wait to find out what happened but unfortunately it seems that the worst end result seems to be already confirmed.

JMO as well.

-BigTex

[Angelonline]

Obviously, of the three, he would be the one Natalee would choose to be with....when he's dogged for his "looks" you're dogging Natalee's perception of people.Girls at that age seem to be attracted to the bad boy or cocky boy image.

[ketel0ne]

He looks like Stickler from American Pie. Slicker than snot on a door knob.

[LinasK]

Girls at that age seem to be attracted to the bad boy or cocky boy image.
Yup, even older girls like Laci and Amber had that same problem.

[ISPTRAX]

I hate to be morbid, but after all these allegations I think they threw her body into the ocean.

[ketel0ne]

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/images/jam_and_jor2.jpg

Reports have the body in the caves at the only mountain on the island.

He has confessed to murdering her. Not an accident.

[blueclouds]

I hate to be morbid, but after all these allegations I think they threw her body into the ocean.
Then how can he be "taking them" to her body? I thought she must be in the ocean too but now??? I think she's in the sand somewhere.

[Sassygerl]

I agree!!!!!!
I think the 2 biggest problems with todays youth are selfishness and no personal accountabilty........ and it upsets me to see anyone trying to explain away bad behavior.

I am not by any means trying to explain bad behavior....if they killed her I hope they rot in hell. I thought we were all here to try to figure all this out and I was giving my feelings as to what MIGHT have happened. As to their "looks" who gives a rats azz....that really has nothing to do with it, but many chose to go after the looks. I've seen so many times here on WS the same posters dog people for their looks....saying white trash, whatever, and at times they are wrong...that was my thing. I saw their webpages and it looks NO different than all the Xanga websites I have checked out of my sons classmates. The word pimp is used often......don't go overboard on that. There was a group, my middle son involved, in 4th grade calling themselves the Pimps....I talked to him about it.

[ketel0ne]

http://www.riehlworldview.com/ picture of caves can be found here.

[Nikki 01]

Girls at that age seem to be attracted to the bad boy or cocky boy image.
That is definitely true, but sometimes the biggest players and jerks are very sweet when they approach a girl and she doesn't see the cockiness at first. It seems like Joran likes to have lots of girls and the easiest way for guys like him to get all of these girls is for him to sweet talk his way into their pants. Young girls can easily fall for a guy who seems like prince charming, which is what I think probably happened to Natalie. I think Joran probably came off as a very sweet and charming young man to her which is why she let her guard down and went with him.

[cynder]

Don't know whether Joran is the "leader" (might also be the older boy) BUT he is their girl bait for sure. The other two boys are not that attractive and being more ethnic in appearance they might not appeal to pretty young US girls like Joran. Joran looked "safe" - just like a well off American boy but with that foreign appeal and I'm sure he seemed very worldly and mature. He passed himself off easily as an older foreign exchange student. Joran was the youngest but he was necessary to attract girls so even though he was the youngest, he was an integral part of the nightlife and partying arrangements. I doubt Joran had any trouble getting girls - but I think part of the deal of him going out with the other older "guys" and them backing up his stories was that he hit on girls for them or find a willing group of girls to party with.
Why has no-one else come forward - 1st - the pics of the boys have not been widely circulated in the press until now. 2nd, embarrassment - the girls may not be willing to admit what they did or got themselves into after drinking and flirting - they might save face by saying nothing happened or just write it off as a vacation wild fling. What if some were older women - embarrassed about the "younger" men or not wanting anyone to know what happened- especially husbands/boyfriends at home. And 3rd - if they did use GHB or Rohypnol on previous girls/women do they (the girls) even remember any of them? Or suspect that the one guy (Joran) they thought they had been with also invited his two friends along after she was passed out? Some women wake up and have no idea what happened but if they planned to have sex with the one guy and woke up with the one guy why would they not assume the sex was with him? And even if they did wake up knowing they were raped would they report it not being able to identify the rapist(s) or knowing they would have to admit being out drinking and partying while on vacation in a foreign country?
So many possibilities and it may also be that this was the 1st time the three had done this OR used a date-rape drug (if they did). MAybe Natalee was the 1st to say no or the 1st to agree to go with all 3 of them to the "lighthouse". Hard to say until we know more, others come forward, or one of the boys spills it all - and with all the lies so far, sadly, we may never know the REAL story.

[ISPTRAX]

that really has nothing to do with it, but many chose to go after the looks. I've seen so many times here on WS the same posters dog people for their looks....saying white trash, whatever, and at times they are wrong...that was my thing. I saw their webpages and it looks NO different than all the Xanga websites I have checked out of my sons classmates. The word pimp is used often......don't go overboard on that. There was a group, my middle son involved, in 4th grade calling themselves the Pimps....I talked to him about it.

You really need to do some soul seeking here. That's all I've got to say. That's major gang/trash talk. Be on the outlook!

[Angelonline]

My heart just breaks for her and her family. Does anyone know the penalty for murder two in Aruba or in Dutch Law.

[fundiva]

http://www.riehlworldview.com/ picture of caves can be found here.
I had posted earlier (on the other thread) about some of the caves. The one I had went to was the Tunnel of Love. Here is a link to some Aruba pics, including this cave, which is typical from what I understand. The cave pics are about half way down the picture page. http://www.arubatravelinfo.com/pictures.html

[Sassygerl]

You really need to do some soul seeking here. That's all I've got to say. That's major gang/trash talk. Be on the outlook!

Gimme a break!!!!! How many children are you raising or have you raised???......My son didn't even know what it meant...he just knew of "Pimp my Ride"......

[txsvicki]

No way! He or they thought she was going to put out, but she was just a nice, innocent girl who was not used to alcohol. She said no and was raped and killed. That's the most likely scenario.

She didn't just die...she was killed...probably strangled or suffocated.

I can't believe anyone would feel sorry for "the boys." They were predators.



Yes, raped and murdered by a budding psychotic/s. Nice normal males, no matter their skin color or looks, don't murder people on purpose or by accident.

[BigTex]

You really need to do some soul seeking here. That's all I've got to say. That's major gang/trash talk. Be on the outlook!
Pimp is not gang talk when it goes mainstream. The word is used as a descriptive term and the kids today don't even know what a pimp is. Pimp my Ride is a prime example - the younger crowd believes that pimping something out is to make it cool.

Hate the game not the playa ISPTRAX :)

-BigTex

[Sassygerl]

Yes, raped and murdered by a budding psychotic.

If he's admitted to killing her then he should rot in hell!!!!!! I was never arguing the fact that he might not have done this, it was always a possibility, but I am just sick and tired of all the posts concerning peoples "looks". Afterall, like I said, many have commented on the "looks" of innocent people, yet they are convicted here on this forum by "looks" alone.

Natalee rest in peace......my prayers are also with her and her family.

[SauerKraut]

Yes, raped and murdered by a budding psychotic.

There should be no sympathy for these guys right now. As far as their looks, Joran looks like a little troublemaker, sorry to say. I get a 'feeling' when I see people and he looks a little wild in my mind. Sorry to judge, but I call it as I feel it. I wonder if Joran was the one that confessed or the other guys did? Once they were arrested, I'm surprised they would, at that point, have kept to their 'plan.' To be honest, these two brothers look like the tag-along geeks of the three. Joran looks arrogant.

[Sassygerl]

Fox News reporting live that it was reported a confession was made and then the police are now recanting that statement.

[fundiva]

If he's admitted to killing her then he should rot in hell!!!!!! I was never arguing the fact that he might not have done this, it was always a possibility, but I am just sick and tired of all the posts concerning peoples "looks". Afterall, like I said, many have commented on the "looks" of innocent people, yet they are convicted here on this forum by "looks" alone.

Natalee rest in peace......my prayers are also with her and her family.
I don't think it's fair to say they are being "convicted" on looks alone. Most of the people on this site have been saying the original three needed further investigation and things didn't seem right from the beginning - before any pictures or names were available. I think the pictures just confirm some opinions.

[ketel0ne]

Cnn at 2 and 2:30 am EST LIVE re reported that a suspect confessed. http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/06/10/missing.teen/index.html

They went with the retraction at 1am but have since kept reporting the original story.

[Angelonline]

Some members of the Media on Fox speculated that the retraction made by the police ..the change from "a confession" to "something bad happened" may be just to keep the media away from the site they are searching for the body, media have been following every police car in Aruba since the original report was made.

[ketel0ne]

At least one of the security guards will be released in the morning according to foxnews.

Abraham Jones will be released tomorow ! UPDATE

[Sassygerl]

I don't think it's fair to say they are being "convicted" on looks alone. Most of the people on this site have been saying the original three needed further investigation and things didn't seem right from the beginning - before any pictures or names were available. I think the pictures just confirm some opinions.

I agree on that....but the looks had a LOT to do with it all. I mean, I don't see many commenting on the other two, only Joran.

ETA: Fundiva many have been convicted or trashed on the forum on looks alone and they've been innocent.

I'll quit my rant on this whole "look" thing...maybe we should bring back the who's who of WS game......:D I'm ready to play!

[Angelonline]

I agree on that....but the looks had a LOT to do with it all. I mean, I don't see many commenting on the other two, only Joran.
At lot of that has to do with Joran being the one she was interested in Joran was the one she had met earlier in the week etc.

[ketel0ne]

Joran spent 2 plus days trying to get closer and closer to her. His blog was a conquest diary and he is a regular at all the places she frequented while she was there. The pictures only went to confirm his comfort zone with himself and his "place" on the island. The 2 brothers did not shadow her for those 3 days.

[Angelonline]

what is that? the whos who of ws game??

[Sassygerl]

Joran spent 2 plus days trying to get closer and closer to her. His blog was a conquest diary and he is a regular at all the places she frequented while she was there. The pictures only went to confirm his comfort zone with himself and his "place" on the island. The 2 brothers did not shadow her for those 3 days.

Thanks. I haven't heard much at all about the 2 brothers. They should rot as well for knowing about this murder...they for sure knew what happened!

[Sassygerl]

what is that? the whos who of ws game??

It was a game run by Cass and Gabs a while back.....people would post their pics and quirky clues were given to see if anyone could figure out who the poster was. It was fun....it took a long time for anyone to guess mine :D

[ketel0ne]

CNN is now running tape for their top and bottom of the hour news. It is the international desk and is not live, but still reporting confession.

[Angelonline]

It was a game run by Cass and Gabs a while back.....people would post their pics and quirky clues were given to see if anyone could figure out who the poster was. It was fun....it took a long time for anyone to guess mine :DSounds fun.........:crazy:

[cynder]

I don't think it's fair to say they are being "convicted" on looks alone. Most of the people on this site have been saying the original three needed further investigation and things didn't seem right from the beginning - before any pictures or names were available. I think the pictures just confirm some opinions.
In the beginning we only knew about ONE guy - the college foreign exchange student, right? And everyone said this guy needed to be checked out. Then it was the three boys (no names ages or pics) and we all said check em out. Then it was 3 boys ages 17, 18 and 21, two were surinamese and one a native-born judges son (still no pics or names) and we still said check em out...and even after they implicated the security guards we still wondered...and said what about the 3 boys and their car? Finally they were arrested 10 days in - after the security guards had alibis checked out and we started looking for pics and info because we had names and we still felt they knew more than they were telling. The lies started to pile up and look like what they were - a big stinking pile o' crap. It wasn't anyone's "look" that made people suspicious - it was the facts in the case.
Of course now all sorts of things are being inferred based on some pictures on web sites etc where a 17 year old boy was desperate to look older and cooler and more manly and a stud. There is no "look" for killers or rapists - some are downright innocent looking and even pretty geeky or dorky. Some are handsome and some are not. Some look vacant and some do not.
We need to go back to focusing on facts and evidence, not what suspects look like. These 3 boys were suspect before and are now implicated - but this process had nothing to do with their appearance. It still doesn't.

[Pybird]

I feel so sad right now as I'm sure many of us do. My thoughts and prayers are with all families involved in this terrible situation.

My gut also told me the 3 younger boys/men had something to do with the disappearance of Natalie. It had nothing to do with looks, just the facts as we knew them.

After listening to one of the Security Guards attornies last night I was hoping that maybe Natalie was still alive. Taken by someone posing as a SG at the hotel. I was thinking maybe she was taken to another island for other purposes. Horrible purposes I know, but she was alive. My hope became stronger when we were told they were investigating/searching other islands.

I can tell you the word 'pimp' does not mean the same to our children as it did back in the day. I'm 48 yrs old, and have 2 children ages 23 & 20. There are many words that now have a new definition ,just like the word 'gay'.

Please, let's not argue amongst ourselves. We all have our reasons/feelings why we thought the 3 young men needed to be investigated further.

Sorry, not preaching and don't mean to rant. Just feeling very sad right now. What a waste of very promising lives.

[SauerKraut]

I feel so sad right now as I'm sure many of us do. My thoughts and prayers are with all families involved in this terrible situation.

My gut also told me the 3 younger boys/men had something to do with the disappearance of Natalie. It had nothing to do with looks, just the facts as we knew them.

After listening to one of the Security Guards attornies last night I was hoping that maybe Natalie was still alive. Taken by someone posing as a SG at the hotel. I was thinking maybe she was taken to another island for other purposes. Horrible purposes I know, but she was alive. My hope became stronger when we were told they were investigating/searching other islands.

I can tell you the word 'pimp' does not mean the same to our children as it did back in the day. I'm 48 yrs old, and have 2 children ages 23 & 20. There are many words that now have a new definition ,just like the word 'gay'.

Please, let's not argue amongst ourselves. We all have our reasons/feelings why we thought the 3 young men needed to be investigated further.

Sorry, not preaching and don't mean to rant. Just feeling very sad right now. What a waste of very promising lives.

So true, very kindly put.

[Pybird]

Thank you, SauerKraut.

[Beyond Belief]

Cnn still reporting confession.

Fox reporting no confession.

Maybe this will smoke out the guilty party.

[bookbakery]

Was it Natalie's innocence or perhaps being drugged that made her think that it was safe to leave with 3 guys, one of whom she had only known for a couple of days? I have 3 children in their 20's and they think they will live forever. I'm not sure that they would hop into the car with 3 strangers, though... at age 18. I certainly would hope not. We are teaching our grandchildren not to do this, so I'm wondering what would make her think this was safe?

[Bobbisangel]

You really need to do some soul seeking here. That's all I've got to say. That's major gang/trash talk. Be on the outlook!


I doubt that most of us really know how our teenagers talk when they are out with their friends. In order to be cool they use the gang slang and every other slang word that teens use. The gang slang doesn't mean they want to belong to a gang. It is just part of being a cool teen in this day and age.
I have 4 grown kids and 7 grandkids...most of them in their teens and I will never "hear it all." Meanings of words change with each generation. I wouldn't get to excited over the word "pimp." I'd be happy if that was the worst I will ever hear.

[Bobbisangel]

Gimme a break!!!!! How many children are you raising or have you raised???......My son didn't even know what it meant...he just knew of "Pimp my Ride"......



Don't worry about it Sassy. All or at least most teens talk slang. Half of the time I have to ask my teen grandkids what the darn words mean. Just because a kid says "Pimp my Ride" doesn't mean he belongs or wants to belong to a gang. It just means that he wants to be cool in the eyes of his peers. Teens talk slang and then they outgrow it....just like we did :D

[Bobbisangel]

I so wanted Natalie to be found alive. Even though it seemed doubtful the longer she was missing I still hoped. My heart goes out to her family and the heartache they are feeling. I just want to know why. That is always my question when something so horrible happens. Why did he have to kill her?
Now Natalie is dead, his life is over even though he still lives, his parents have to learn to live with this horror and Natalie's parents have lost their little girl and will have to learn to live without her. When something like this happens it doesn't just affect two people...there is the ripple affect that touches a lot of people.

My first question is "Why"..my second question is.."was it worth it"? I wonder what kind of sentencing they have in Aruba. Their laws seem a lot different than ours. Life without parole would do just fine.

I would like to also know why those boys said a Security Guard approached Natalie. Those security guards weren't even on duty the night Natalie disappeared yet they were picked up and thrown in jail. Something is really strange with that. They don't even hold the 3 boys who were last seen with Natalie. I wonder why the news said that they will only be releasing one of the young black men?

[CaliKid]

Poor Natalee. I'm glad the Aruban authorities wised up and arrested the 3 boys. I think forums like Websleuths, by keeping Natalee's name out there, supplied a great deal of the pressure on them to look at the facts- who was known to have been with her last. Despite their attempt to throw suspicion on to the security guards, in the end all they did was make themselves look suspect. I truly hope there was a confession that will lead to her body being recovered.

Cynder, your posts have been thought-prevoking and clear. If they did the crime, it's time to reel them in.

[Sassygerl]

Don't worry about it Sassy. All or at least most teens talk slang. Half of the time I have to ask my teen grandkids what the darn words mean. Just because a kid says "Pimp my Ride" doesn't mean he belongs or wants to belong to a gang. It just means that he wants to be cool in the eyes of his peers. Teens talk slang and then they outgrow it....just like we did :D

Thanks Bobbis.....yes I agree completely with what you are saying.

[Mygirlsadie]

Yep he's the one I looked at and thought little weasel knows something..I would love to see this ''gangsta/pimps'' or whatever he THINKS he is come up to where hubby grew up he would be laughed his little white azz right back to Aruba

[Sassygerl]

Yep he's the one I looked at and thought little weasel knows something..I would love to see this ''gangsta/pimps'' or whatever he THINKS he is come up to where hubby grew up he would be laughed his little white azz right back to Aruba

Don't know how old or where your hubby is from, but seems to be a common thing among kids....just like the word "bitchin", "fly" etc. was back in my day :)

[Trino]

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1107

This news is directly from Aruba. What's going on?



BREAKING : Commentors on our site have breaking news from Aruba

FOX NEWS SCROLL : NO CONFESSION MADE IN NATALEE HOLLOWAY MURDER!!!

Abraham Jones will be released tomorow !

Reports of a search for a body are false.

!!!Tom Opinion!!! Rumors of CNN annoying Aruban officials may be true. I wonder if CNN was set up on this? !!!Tom Opinion!!!!

ABC AP REPORT

[lady-eowyn]

I hope and pray that this is not the case...I think most of us have held out hope, but in reality knew that this wasn't going to have a happy ending..

My prayers for the family:(

[justthefacts]

Whatever impression the pictures give you of Joran , here's the facts. The 17 year-old gambles, stays out late at night, drinks, and has a girl on his arm in almost every picture. My 17 year-old son watches movies, plays games, and goes to friends houses. Quite a difference. Why the heck are his parents allowing him to lead that lifestyle??

[Sassygerl]

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1107

This news is directly from Aruba. What's going on?



BREAKING : Commentors on our site have breaking news from Aruba

FOX NEWS SCROLL : NO CONFESSION MADE IN NATALEE HOLLOWAY MURDER!!!

Abraham Jones will be released tomorow !

Reports of a search for a body are false.

!!!Tom Opinion!!! Rumors of CNN annoying Aruban officials may be true. I wonder if CNN was set up on this? !!!Tom Opinion!!!!

ABC AP REPORT

CNN reports a confession and FOX is saying "Something bad happened to her" while on the island. They go hand in hand....she's obviously not alive. I pray and hope they can find her body so her family can take her back home with them. So sad :(

[Trino]

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/

Sure sounds like JVDS has some issues:


One of the three young men arrested Thursday in the disappearance of Mountain Brook teen Natalee Holloway got into a pushing match with some of her friends in an Aruban bar, one of Holloway’s friends said Thursday.

Bryan Reynolds, 18, one of 124 recent high school graduates who went to Aruba in late May, said some of his friends almost got into a fight with Joran Andreas Petrus Van Der Sloot and his friends.

The scuffle started after Van Der Sloot, a Dutch suspect arrested at his upper-class home in Oranjestad, Aruba, Thursday morning, had been talking to 18-year-old Holloway at a bar where she and classmates hung out during the five-day trip, Reynolds said.

“There was almost a fight between my friend and him,” said Reynolds, who was sitting in his car in the parking lot of Mountain Brook Community Church on Thursday after attending a noon prayer service with his classmates and others. “I had to break them up. That’s when I got a good look at them.”

Reynolds said he saw the suspects hanging out at the Holiday Inn where the Mountain Brook High School graduates stayed in Oranjestad. When Holloway went missing, Reynolds said they were the first people he considered as potential suspects.

“That was the first people who came to mind,” said Reynolds, who said Holloway is one of his best friends.

[Sassygerl]

Whatever impression the pictures give you of Joran , here's the facts. The 17 year-old gambles, stays out late at night, drinks, and has a girl on his arm in almost every picture. My 17 year-old son watches movies, plays games, and goes to friends houses. Quite a difference. Why the heck are his parents allowing him to lead that lifestyle??

For one thing, they are Dutch. It's common for them to drink young.....I went to HS in Holland...it was a common thing even as young as 14 to go out to the pubs.

[Trino]

Yahoo news is now making it seem like a different person has been arrested!!! Note that a person was arrested Saturday morning, while the other three were arrested on Thursday!!!

Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that the man was leading police late Friday to the scene. He refused to identify which of the three young men who took her to a beach the night she went missing made the statement.

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related. The same team of officers who arrested others in the case went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

[sharon25]

Sure.....I remember being seventeen (although is was a loooong time ago). I did A LOT of reckless things, but if I thought one of my friends was dead or dying from an overdose, I would have rushed them to the hospital, not buried them on the beach!

Anyone who wasn't raised by wolves would NOT be able to do such a thing.
Just to add a different view on this-
when I was 16 I did some pretty stupid stuff.
I had moved out of my mom's house and moved with my dad.
My dad was a truck driver and would be gone at Least a week
at a time, sometimes 3 weeks.
He let me smoke pot at the house.

One night I did too many things at once and
fell flat on my face, there were 8 people including me there
that night.

All of them but one stayed- the others left cause they
thought they'd get in trouble with LE for being under the influence of
drugs and alcohol.

-the other 6 that left were not "bad" kids, just stupid and scared easily.

I'm not saying this happened with Natalee- I'm just saying that teenagers don't always think smart.

[Angelonline]

This is the most confusing case every time you turn around the facts change. Now they have made another arrest, according to ABC news.Why are our news sources coming from Aruba so unreliable.....

[kpass]

For the love of God, WHAT is going on? First they say a confession, they recant, now a 20 yr old is arrested??? This is horrible!

LET THE SECURITY GUARDS GO ALREADY!!!!!!

[SauerKraut]

This is from Beyond Belief on another thread:

FOR PETE'S SAKE NOW THE ARUBAN'S ARE SAYING THERE WAS NO CONFESSION. THEN WHAT THE HECK IS IT! SOME PROFESSIONALS NEED TO GO THERE AND INTERROGATE THESE BOYS AND FIND OUT THE TRUTH.
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. SOUNDS LIKE THEY WERE HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION AND ONE OF THESE LAWYERS GOT IN THERE AND SHUT THEM UP.

Sounds exactly like a lawyer went down there and did this. Good point.

They need to give this family closure for god's sake. :(

[KatherineQ]

This is the problem when we, the public, demand real-time news when it's happening.

It's frankly none of our business right this instant, we have no compelling need to know, EXACTLY what's going on this very precise moment.

We've decided we DO have the right to know exactly what's going on behind the scenes of investigating a case and our American media agrees with us and reports what they believe to be true at the moment, based on nothing except wild rumors.

This post is about me, really, and how I realize I have no compelling need to know and yet want the info now now now.

If we'd give the cops a day or two to wrap this up, sounds like they're about to.

[Pharlap]

This is the most confusing case every time you turn around the facts change. Now they have made another arrest, according to ABC news.Why are our news sources coming from Aruba so unreliable.....

Ditto
Just heard that on KFI radio tis morning........
Inless we're down there we won't know for sure what in the *ell is going on, we just have to just listen to 2nd hand news......

:eek:

[JenMom]

I'd love to hear Adella's story of what the locals are saying this morning...

[sharon25]

This is the problem when we, the public, demand real-time news when it's happening.

It's frankly none of our business right this instant, we have no compelling need to know, EXACTLY what's going on this very precise moment.

We've decided we DO have the right to know exactly what's going on behind the scenes of investigating a case and our American media agrees with us and reports what they believe to be true at the moment, based on nothing except wild rumors.

This post is about me, really, and how I realize I have no compelling need to know and yet want the info now now now.

If we'd give the cops a day or two to wrap this up, sounds like they're about to.
I agree :)

but I also want to know now now now ;)

[KatherineQ]

Oh, ME TOO, Sharon!

I'm sitting here reading blogs all over the place, looking for real answers - I just got this visual image of a heart surgeon trying to perform surgery while CNN and Foxnews have their reporters sticking their heads in the way what's going on in there what's going on in there do you have a comment. And I'm standing back there trying to push my head in too to see for myself. ;D

Intereresting, AP has retracted the story of a confession hours ago, and yet CNN.com still has that story on their front page. Hm. We'll see, I guess.

[Trino]

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/

A FOURTH suspect has been arrested!!!

According to Fox News scroll and the AP; a fourth suspect has been arrested in Aruba in conjunction with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The investigators are not discussing it at this time. Thanks to the Riehl World for the initial information. Looks as though the AP is now confirming it as well. Also, thanks to Chris Lupo for the tip this morning!

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.

[Pharlap]

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/

A FOURTH suspect has been arrested!!!

According to Fox News scroll and the AP; a fourth suspect has been arrested in Aruba in conjunction with the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The investigators are not discussing it at this time. Thanks to the Riehl World for the initial information. Looks as though the AP is now confirming it as well. Also, thanks to Chris Lupo for the tip this morning!

It was unclear if the 6 a.m. arrest was related to the admission. The same team of officers who arrested five others in the case during the past week went to a home just outside Oranjestad, the capital, and came out with a handcuffed man who looked to be in his 20s.
K, I stated early this morning, another(which would be number 6) man has been arrested.:angel:
Are you saying this is #7? :waitasec:

[PsychesKnot]

I have to leave and will miss whatever this news conference supposedly going on now is all about. But wanted to pass this on before I leave.

http://www.arubadag.com/

They are supposed to have live feeds from Aruban radio/TV, translated into English. I didn't try it.

[prism]

News Currently Circulating; This is news I hadn't seen reported here, hope I'm not repeating..


News that’s currently circulating our island of Aruba.

Blood has been found in the silver Honda Civic impounded Thursday by officials, this car is supposedly owned by the suspect detained in the case of missing Natalee Holloway, Joran van der Sloot.
.
The biological parents of Natalee Holloway had supposedly taken blood tests yesterday, to confirm if the blood found in the car is indeed from Natalee.
The results are known.
Hopefully this will be revealed in the press conference of this morning at 10 AM.

This news is yet to be confirmed

http://spaces.msn.com/members/amykappel/

[lisad71]

Obviously, of the three, he would be the one Natalee would choose to be with....when he's dogged for his "looks" you're dogging Natalee's perception of people.
He is a nice looking boy, but you can definitely tell by the way he mugs for the camera, that he is cocky. The pic they keep showing of him with the two brothers he has his "gansta" face on. Not too mention the G-Unit shirt he is wearing.

[KatherineQ]

News Currently Circulating; This is news I hadn't seen reported here, hope I'm not repeating..



http://spaces.msn.com/members/amykappel/


From what I understand, he said he had sex with her in the back seat. From how she's been described as "virginal", this just maybe be all kind of nothing.

[KatherineQ]

Cnn.com has updated and dated stamped their story about 1/2 an hour ago, and they're sticking by one of the three has confessed to killing her.

Sounds like they may know something that the cops aren't ready to say yet.

[Beyond Belief]

This is so strange that they keep dragging in other suspects. This feels like a grandstand play to blame this on somebody else. First the security guards and now someone else.
I would still like to know if when Natalee was driven away from the hotel if she was in the front seat or the backseat. The brothers have been doing alot of talking and alot of lying. I am having a hard time not believing that one of them is the guilty party.
This little naive nerds are no match for the sophisticated FBI from the US. Its time to fess up and move on.
The island will suffer from this horrendous crime. I know I will never spend a cent there. The investigation should have been wrapped up with in 48 hours.

[attack]

Confession will reveal she was given a date-rape drug by one of the brothers.
Afterwards he freaked out and slashed her. She had no cognizance of wnything after leaving the bar.

[ketel0ne]

Confession will reveal she was given a date-rape drug by one of the brothers.
Afterwards he freaked out and slashed her. She had no cognizance of wnything after leaving the bar.
I am sure this is based on a reliable source or a press feed somewhere?

[sharon25]

This is so strange that they keep dragging in other suspects. This feels like a grandstand play to blame this on somebody else. First the security guards and now someone else.
I would still like to know if when Natalee was driven away from the hotel if she was in the front seat or the backseat. The brothers have been doing alot of talking and alot of lying. I am having a hard time not believing that one of them is the guilty party.
This little naive nerds are no match for the sophisticated FBI from the US. Its time to fess up and move on.
The island will suffer from this horrendous crime. I know I will never spend a cent there. The investigation should have been wrapped up with in 48 hours.
I share, and understand your frustration, however..
You have to remember that they are Not used to dealing with this.
Don't blame them for everything.
It would be the same as other people all over the world saying
that they aren't going to spend a cent here in America because of
our crime rate and how many murderers and child molesters go free.

This is a tragic event, and it could've happened Anywhere, and it Does happen here in the US everyday.:twocents:

[KatherineQ]

I see the frustration too. But the thing is, our FBI guys have been there for more than a week and THEY haven't been able to solve it either.

What looks like a clear open and shut case . . . must not be. There must be more to this than what seems obvious.

[rollerbladr123]

Martin Savidge of MSNBC just reporting (8.30 PDT) that
(a) main message of the press conference this morning was that "the investigation is at a critical stage"
(b) sources report discrepancies in the accounts of the three suspects, Van der Sloot and the Kaploe brothers-the investigators are focusing on this and the lawyers for the two sets of clients as usual saying that their respective client(s) are "innocent and cooperating fully"
(c) Savidge cited reports of forensic evidence being found that have been transferred to the FBI for analysis
(d) Representatives of the Holloway family have said that they think that major announcements are to be revealed later today

IMHO, given the way the news has evolved since last evening all news reports should be taken with a pinch of salt
Thanks

[Usher737]

I am curious to know how this new suspect fits into everything.

I wonder if Natalee was on the beach with Jordan when this man approached them. Perhaps he took Natalee with him and threatened Jordan not to tell anyone. There are so many possible scenarios but none of them look good.

Hopefully police will release new info soon!!

[englishleigh]

Before all this is over, I believe Joran Van der Sloot will be charged with murder and the Kaploe brothers charged as accessories...and the security guards released. I sadly believe that Natalee's body will not be recovered. These are just my opinions at this time. This is such a tragic case, as they all are. Any number of scenarios could have happened, but it will boil down to a young, beautiful girl who was probably both drunk and then drugged by these boys, taken advantage of, and then tossed away like trash in the throes of the boys' panic or "anger management issues"...

[sharon25]

I am curious to know how this new suspect fits into everything.

I wonder if Natalee was on the beach with Jordan when this man approached them. Perhaps he took Natalee with him and threatened Jordan not to tell anyone. There are so many possible scenarios but none of them look good.

Hopefully police will release new info soon!!
did Joran and them have cell phones???
could it be that he called a friend of his to (Sorry about this next part) but to come and get in on the action?
:(

??

I'm still thinking that the original three are the right suspects.
One of the brothers looks a lot more skittish in the photos I've seen.
But I agree- given Joran's lifestyle and upbringing- I'm more inclined to think
he's the ringleader.

[Beyond Belief]

I share, and understand your frustration, however..
You have to remember that they are Not used to dealing with this.
Don't blame them for everything.
It would be the same as other people all over the world saying
that they aren't going to spend a cent here in America because of
our crime rate and how many murderers and child molesters go free.

This is a tragic event, and it could've happened Anywhere, and it Does happen here in the US everyday.:twocents:
Hmm.
I do blame any culture with a class system such as Aruba, that has teens that can confidently place blame on people like the security guards. They really thought they were going to get away with it. The one brother was still updating his website with photos up until a few days ago. They were involved in the death of an American tourist, yet believed they would walk away from it. They went on with their lives.

[englishleigh]

did Joran and them have cell phones???
could it be that he called a friend of his to (Sorry about this next part) but to come and get in on the action?
:(

??

I'm still thinking that the original three are the right suspects.
One of the brothers looks a lot more skittish in the photos I've seen.
But I agree- given Joran's lifestyle and upbringing- I'm more inclined to think
he's the ringleader.

I think the 6th person is more of a case of Joran, in his last-ditch effort to blame someone else, trying to drag another person into it or pin it on someone else. I think it will boil down to Joran and his Kaploe buddies, and no one else.

[KatherineQ]

Sharon - I agree that "one of the brothers" looks skittish.

When I first saw that picture of the boy on the very left, the one who looks like he's from India, my first thought was no way was that guy involved. No way.

Maybe it's just a conditioned response - we have a lot of Indians in our community, and boys who look like that boy on the left are NEVER causing trouble. Never.

Man that sounds prejudiced. But maybe in a good way. Sorry.

[sharon25]

Sharon - I agree that "one of the brothers" looks skittish.

When I first saw that picture of the boy on the very left, the one who looks like he's from India, my first thought was no way was that guy involved. No way.

Maybe it's just a conditioned response - we have a lot of Indians in our community, and boys who look like that boy on the left are NEVER causing trouble. Never.

Man that sounds prejudiced. But maybe in a good way. Sorry.
I agree- it could just be the picture itself though, you never know.
I do, however, think we will all find out the truth. Keeping a secret from LE is hard enough, without having to hope that all 3 keep the same secret.

IMO, we will find out what really happened soon enough.

and I also will be going to aruba- as will many people.
(just not anytime soon as I don't have any mooo-lah)

[cynder]

I share, and understand your frustration, however..
You have to remember that they are Not used to dealing with this.
Don't blame them for everything.
It would be the same as other people all over the world saying
that they aren't going to spend a cent here in America because of
our crime rate and how many murderers and child molesters go free.

This is a tragic event, and it could've happened Anywhere, and it Does happen here in the US everyday.:twocents:
I concur!
Aruba has had ONE MURDER so far this (2005) year (Natalee would be #2) and THREE RAPES (Natalee would be #4). I live in Dallas and by Jan 5th 2005 we had already exceeded these numbers. Aruba has a population of 75,000 and 13,000 international tourists a DAY - Dallas has a million plus population and probably gets 13,000 international tourists a month average. I am afraid to walk alone downtown here at night. I would not be afraid in Aruba.
Our violent crime rates in the US far exceed those in Aruba. You are far, far safer in Aruba on it's worst day than in Dallas (or any big US city) on it's best day. Kids/young adults disappear by the dozens daily in the US, never to be seen again. Florida has had more child-murders in the last 3 mos than Aruba has had in the last 15 years. Thinking you or your child is "safer" in the US is just not borne out by statistics. Your young child would be safer in Aruba unsupervised on the beach than s/he is unsupervised in an aisle at a "Toys R Us" store.
I traveled all over Paris on the Metro (subway system) at night alone, walked all over the city at night alone and felt perfectly safe and secure. Would I do that in NY? No way. I went to the Red Light District in Amsterdam at midnight and walked all over, chatted with strangers, talked to kids getting high - would I do that in LA? No way.
The "perception" is that you are safer here than in any other country but that is far from true. There are many places all over the world that are safer for tourists than the US.
Bad things happen everywhere but statistically speaking you are more likely to be a victim of murder or violent crime right here at home in the US than in a lot of popular international destinations.

[Adella]

But I have a lot of posts to reply on.

YenMom, starting with you...I am ready to give my opinion and I may know quit a lot since one of my siblings was in class with Joran, not only that, my sibling also knows the 2 other boys. (I'll refer to my sibling as 'my source' okay?)
I asked my source for an opinion but I didn't really get much since my source wasn't too familiar with those guys although I understand they've been to parties/bars altogether (the boys/girls of that school) My source told me that this guy is somewhat a trouble-maker, just as any other kid of a rich family would be (my opinion) My source also gives a definition for this guys caracter: He's unpredictable. (Doesn't help me know more about him, but now I can lean more to the possibility that he 'might' have committed a crime)
This is all I know about Joran, as I said before, he missed his graduation ceremony because he was arrested, which was very sad, but that doesn't make me feel different to weather he might be guilty or not.

I have to reply on many posts more, but I'll BRB.

[MaryBelle]

Sadly, I think with the whole island having searched for her for nearly 2 weeks, along with the FBI and others, and still these boys have said nothing to indicate where she is ... they must think they know she can't be found. With all the searching that has gone on and no clues as to what became of her - whoever did this must have felt very sure searchers would not find her.

Whatever happened, I am afraid they somehow made certain she wouldn't be found (or they think they did). I hope I am wrong.

MaryBelle

[SewingDeb]

Cnn still reporting confession.

Fox reporting no confession.

Maybe this will smoke out the guilty party.

Fox reporting they arrested yet another man (20 year old) this morning. Confusion reigns on this one, the family still says they believe she is alive.

[Beyond Belief]

Sadly, I think with the whole island having searched for her for nearly 2 weeks, along with the FBI and others, and still these boys have said nothing to indicate where she is ... they must think they know she can't be found. With all the searching that has gone on and no clues as to what became of her - whoever did this must have felt very sure searchers would not find her.

Whatever happened, I am afraid they somehow made certain she wouldn't be found (or they think they did). I hope I am wrong.

MaryBelle
I am going to pray that they are not savy enough to fool law enforcement.

[Casshew]

the family still says they believe she is alive.]

That statement is either incredible faith or denial.

I feel so badly for this family- what is taking so long for the authorities to get to the bottom of what happened?

[SauerKraut]

Sharon - I agree that "one of the brothers" looks skittish.

When I first saw that picture of the boy on the very left, the one who looks like he's from India, my first thought was no way was that guy involved. No way.

Maybe it's just a conditioned response - we have a lot of Indians in our community, and boys who look like that boy on the left are NEVER causing trouble. Never.

Man that sounds prejudiced. But maybe in a good way. Sorry.

It's funny you both say that because I thought he looked so innocent and almost childlike too! They both remind me of my brothers friends and they are always talking the talk but are really geeks that couldn't bed a fly. The one on the right definitely looks more like he could be up to no good. Bad to say, huh?

[cynder]

Sadly, I think with the whole island having searched for her for nearly 2 weeks, along with the FBI and others, and still these boys have said nothing to indicate where she is ... they must think they know she can't be found. With all the searching that has gone on and no clues as to what became of her - whoever did this must have felt very sure searchers would not find her.

Whatever happened, I am afraid they somehow made certain she wouldn't be found (or they think they did). I hope I am wrong.

MaryBelle
They have yet to bring in cadaver dogs - which may be necessary if she is buried or in a cave. A dog might find her when people can't. IMO, Unless they dumped her weighted body off a boat further from shore, she will be found eventually - given the proper type of search. The island is NOT that big and remote areas are not so large as to be unsearchable.

[SauerKraut]

I traveled all over Paris on the Metro (subway system) at night alone, walked all over the city at night alone and felt perfectly safe and secure. Would I do that in NY? No way. I went to the Red Light District in Amsterdam at midnight and walked all over, chatted with strangers, talked to kids getting high - would I do that in LA? No way.
The "perception" is that you are safer here than in any other country but that is far from true. There are many places all over the world that are safer for tourists than the US.
Bad things happen everywhere but statistically speaking you are more likely to be a victim of murder or violent crime right here at home in the US than in a lot of popular international destinations.

Thank you for pointing that out. I hope Aruba does not get a bad rap for this, it's all the media. I live in Berlin half the year and I walk at any hour, street, bahnhof, anywhere and never incur a problem. What a lot of people don't realize is that our system perpetuates a lot of our crime here, it's simply not like that in other places. Values are different. (Which why I would take Germany over here any day.)

[Columbo]

To me, the Surinamese Indian brothers look like nice kids; Joran seems like a bad apple. But of course I could be wrong about the brothers.

[SauerKraut]

Were they truly searching in that cave area or was that part of the information that was being retracted? I'm so confused, I am reading too many news sites.

[Miss Daisey]

Fox reporting they arrested yet another man (20 year old) this morning. Confusion reigns on this one, the family still says they believe she is alive.
That poor family. Hope is all they have. I think I'd cling to it too while they haven't found her body, if she was my child.

"There but by the Grace of God go we"

[indigomood]

the family still says they believe she is alive.
sans physical evidence of a loved one's demise, I too, God forbid should find myself faced with a similar tragedy, would have to hold on to the belief that my loved one is still alive. Faith is the substance of things hoped for against all odds. Total abandonment of that faith is despair, which we know will come soon enough for this unfortunate family of Natalee Holloway. :(

[SauerKraut]

I notice now on the Yahoo news page that there is a comment that "Natalee refused to get out of the car." It continues that she got out and stumbled etc. etc. The more you hear what these guys are saying, it's almost like, how can I say it, they are trying to make her look like the aggressor or at least part of the problem. These little tidbits are trying to paint a negative portrait of her, while trying to make themselves look good. Guilty guilty guilty. :behindbar :behindbar :behindbar

[MaryBelle]

IMO, Unless they dumped her weighted body off a boat further from shore, she will be found eventually - given the proper type of search.

Cynder, that was what I meant but just hated to even say it. I just have a feeling they told each other that as long as they didn't talk, no one would ever know what happened because they made sure she wouldn't be found. So far (at least as far as we know at this point) they are staying closed-mouthed even with international attention and thousands of people searching. It just seems like if any of them were worried about her being found, ONE of them would have talked by now.

Again, I certainly hope I am wrong. A mother losing her child is so horrible and it doesn't seem like anything could make it any worse - it is what it is - but I'm sure not finding a body to take home, would. I hope the report about one of the boys leading police to Natalee were true.

MaryBelle

[fundiva]

I think part of the problem with the reporting of a confession and then recanting is the suspect is 17. Last night a reporter said the police had reported a confession before talking with the boy's parents. I believe that, with his father being involved in the legal system, the parents are making the police accountable so the confession report was recanted (for now). It was just reported on MSN that Joran's mother