General Discussions #6

[Timex]

continue here

[Moxie]

Hmmm.. well, it seems that maybe we need to "follow the money".

If someone is unemployed, has unpaid tax bills, is facing felony embezzlement charges and attorney fees, and is paying a different attorney to represent him for the murder of his wife - for which he has not been charged - all this costs money..

where is he getting his money?

[golfmom]

So, instead of "Show me the Money!" the title of that page should have been "Show me the Lines of Credit!"

[Nemmer]

What about life insurance?

[Moxie]

So, instead of "Show me the Money!" the title of that page should have been "Show me the Lines of Credit!"
Maybe, but most creditors would be VERY reluctant to continue to provide credit to someone with less than perfect credit.

So, it goes back to, how is he paying for all this?

I am thinking trust fund.

We need to make sure people (media) know to look into that when they are pursuing this story.

[golfmom]

I vote we start a thread on this topic rather than continuing it in our General Discussion thread.

[Moxie]

What about life insurance?
Hi Nemmer,

That is a very good question. Is there any way we can find out if life insurance is playing in to this?

[Moxie]

I vote we start a thread on this topic rather than continuing it in our General Discussion thread.
I agree

[newkid]

We need to make sure people (media) know to look into that when they are pursuing this story.
They may not pick up the story right away. There is currently an 11 year old missing from scout camp that is the lead story on every station.

[golfmom]

I agree

Let's move the financial discussions / motivations to the insanity thread. That way PFM won't yell at us and we can keep the forum tidy!

[Moxie]

They may not pick up the story right away. There is currently an 11 year old missing from scout camp that is the lead story on every station.
Okay - we need to make sure that little boy is found safely and then we will drum up the media in UT.

[lauriej]

..interesting article march 1996...
http://www.sltrib.com/search


School Notes
Date: March 25, 1996

-- Four Alta High students have been chosen to attend ``Operation Enterprise,'' a national 10-day program offering high school and college students business-world experience with top executives. They are: Raven Abaroa, Enrique Ferrini, Chris Stowell and Treg Wilder, who will attend the program sponsored by Junior Achievement and the American Management Association.







Author: The Salt Lake Tribune

[PrayersForMaura]

there's a new poster named Jack ... if you're reading this thread Jack, any information you have about Janet would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks for joining in on the conversation. We're seeking justice for Janet.

[lauriej]

...maybe a little O/T but..........this guy went on trial yesterday in NC...

http://www.wral.com/news/4627427/detail.html

WAYNE COUNTY, N.C. -- The second murder trial of a Wayne County man accused of raping and killing a 5-year-old girl began Monday.


http://images.ibsys.com/ral-structure/images/structures/buttons/button_enlarge.gif
http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0522/4517902_200X150.jpg (http://www.wral.com/news/4627427/detail.html#) Eric Lane



Opening statements began in the case of Eric Lane, who is charged with first-degree murder, first-degree kidnapping and a first-degree sex offense in the death of Precious Whitfield, whose body was found in a creek in 2002.




............that trial, (along with the post today by ewws....) , that there were 3 murders in the last week alone ! in durham ..........

http://www.wral.com/news/4625484/detail.html
UPDATED: 12:48 pm EDT June 19, 2005


DURHAM, N.C. -- On Friday, the Durham Police Department reported that the number of crimes in the city was at a four-year low.
But on Saturday, the department was investigating its third murder this week.

.......i realize that those cases deserve attention....and that durham has a limited number of LE as well as media coverage ..but at the same time...

......it's now been 8 weeks ! since janet was found dead.............
http://web.archive.org/web/20010828024037/ravenstree.com/images/Wedding/004.jpg

...how can LE say it was a "not random" murder.....leave it at that ...........never step back up to the mike with an update............. and expect we'll forget ?

...it's not fair, especially to jant.........and i'n back to the "media blitz" asking why ?

[curious1]

............that trial, (along with the post today by ewws....) , that there were 3 murders in the last week alone ! in durham ..........
Unfortunately that is not so shocking for Durham.:(

[ewwwinteresting]

Does anybody feel it would help to write/email the DA's office on this? How close do the DA's office work with LE on an ongoing investigation? Could LE just put something like this on the back burner and the DA wouldn't get involved until LE decided they had a suspect?

[Timex]

Does anybody feel it would help to write/email the DA's office on this? How close do the DA's office work with LE on an ongoing investigation? Could LE just put something like this on the back burner and the DA wouldn't get involved until LE decided they had a suspect?
Or LE could have taken it to the DA, and the DA said..."thats not enough, we need more". DA isnt gonna charge anyone until they feel they have a solid case.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Does anybody feel it would help to write/email the DA's office on this? How close do the DA's office work with LE on an ongoing investigation? Could LE just put something like this on the back burner and the DA wouldn't get involved until LE decided they had a suspect?

Maybe I'm in the minority, but, I'm of the opinion that it never hurts to write, call, contact, ANYONE...that could potentially impact any aspect of this case.


Mike Nifong
Durham County District Attorney
Durham County Courthouse
201 E. Main Street
Durham, NC 27701

Office Phone: 919-564-7100
Office Fax: 919-560-3220

[JerseyGirl]

Timex, it's O/T, but your signature line is beautiful.

[NCBanker]

I posted this in another thread, but I'll include it here as well. Raven's blog is still up. It's the one thing he didn't delete... http://ravenstree.blogspot.com/

Thinking that he may possibly be paying attention to his online ramblings and the comments posted by others, I took the liberty of sending him a message. Perhaps others from this forum could go there as well and drop him a line?

[Marstan]

I posted this in another thread, but I'll include it here as well. Raven's blog is still up. It's the one thing he didn't delete... http://ravenstree.blogspot.com/

Thinking that he may possibly be paying attention to his online ramblings and the comments posted by others, I took the liberty of sending him a message. Perhaps others from this forum could go there as well and drop him a line?
Whew, NCBanker, you sure did make a post! Good for you. Wake up Raven people are watching.:truce:

[ewwwinteresting]

I posted this in another thread, but I'll include it here as well. Raven's blog is still up. It's the one thing he didn't delete... http://ravenstree.blogspot.com/

Thinking that he may possibly be paying attention to his online ramblings and the comments posted by others, I took the liberty of sending him a message. Perhaps others from this forum could go there as well and drop him a line?
I am still dumbfounded about what we speculated his mother wrote:
"Very good reflection on your life and goals." WTH?

[JerseyGirl]

Thinking that he may possibly be paying attention to his online ramblings and the comments posted by others, I took the liberty of sending him a message. Perhaps others from this forum could go there as well and drop him a line?I admire your courage, NCBanker.

[bluegirl]

So, instead of "Show me the Money!" the title of that page should have been "Show me the Lines of Credit!"
Hi I'm new to this and would like to speak with someone about this case.

[NCBanker]

I sent you a private message...

Hi I'm new to this and would like to speak with someone about this case.

[JerseyGirl]

Hi I'm new to this and would like to speak with someone about this case.Welcome bluegirl. I'm not sure if you mean that you'd like to discuss this case in the forum or if you'd like to speak to LE or media. Please feel free to send a private message to any of us if you would like some help or direction. Otherwise, please feel free to join us in our discussions. We are always interested in fresh ideas.

Welcome again. :)

[ewwwinteresting]

Hi I'm new to this and would like to speak with someone about this case.
Welcome Bluegirl. I'm hoping from the word "media" written in your title means you are from the media and want to pick up this case. We would love to help you out with anything....just ask!

[Moxie]

Hi I'm new to this and would like to speak with someone about this case.Hi Bluegirl,

If you have any questions or if I can help in anyway, please let me know.

Moxie

[bluegirl]

...maybe a little O/T but..........this guy went on trial yesterday in NC...

http://www.wral.com/news/4627427/detail.html

WAYNE COUNTY, N.C. -- The second murder trial of a Wayne County man accused of raping and killing a 5-year-old girl began Monday.


http://images.ibsys.com/ral-structure/images/structures/buttons/button_enlarge.gif
http://images.ibsys.com/2005/0522/4517902_200X150.jpg (http://www.wral.com/news/4627427/detail.html#) Eric Lane












Opening statements began in the case of Eric Lane, who is charged with first-degree murder, first-degree kidnapping and a first-degree sex offense in the death of Precious Whitfield, whose body was found in a creek in 2002.




............that trial, (along with the post today by ewws....) , that there were 3 murders in the last week alone ! in durham ..........

http://www.wral.com/news/4625484/detail.html
UPDATED: 12:48 pm EDT June 19, 2005


DURHAM, N.C. -- On Friday, the Durham Police Department reported that the number of crimes in the city was at a four-year low.
But on Saturday, the department was investigating its third murder this week.

.......i realize that those cases deserve attention....and that durham has a limited number of LE as well as media coverage ..but at the same time...

......it's now been 8 weeks ! since janet was found dead.............
http://web.archive.org/web/20010828024037/ravenstree.com/images/Wedding/004.jpg

...how can LE say it was a "not random" murder.....leave it at that ...........never step back up to the mike with an update............. and expect we'll forget ?

...it's not fair, especially to jant.........and i'n back to the "media blitz" asking why ? I agree the media has to step in to move this case forward. I have a connection that just might be the answer

[ewwwinteresting]

I agree the media has to step in to move this case forward. I have a connection that just might be the answer
We are glad you agree with us BG..........connect.....connect......connect. :blowkiss: We thoroughly look forward to it.

[ewwwinteresting]

Sorry I didn't notice this questions earlier. I think based on what we've learned and deduced, they're probably semi-active. I highly doubt his siblings are affiliated in any way, shape or form. His family was the typical "one foot in the church and one foot in the world" family, where the only time they became active was because they needed $$ from the Bishop. I've seen it many, many times.

A cousin of mine who spent a lot of time with Raven and Janet at SVU said Raven had a limited understanding of the Church, much like the basic testimony or belief of a child.
I moved it over here since the question didn't belong on the other thread :)

Your cousin knew Raven and Janet both well or just one of them? If the family moved around a alot, would there be a way to track how much money they received from the church? Could they go from Bishop to Bishop and ask for money? Maybe Raven learned this growing up and did the same thing as an adult?? It is also conceivable that the church will now help him with money because he has no job and a baby, is that right?

[Jenifred]

Just a question, maybe NCBanker can help out with this one. I've always thought that if you needed money and you were looking to get it from the LDS church you first had to ask family to help, then look into government programs (food stamps, welfare, Section 8), and then if all of those were exhausted and there were still unmet needs then the church would step in. Am I wrong?

[JerseyGirl]

Your cousin knew Raven and Janet both well or just one of them? If the family moved around a alot, would there be a way to track how much money they received from the church? Could they go from Bishop to Bishop and ask for money? Maybe Raven learned this growing up and did the same thing as an adult?? It is also conceivable that the church will now help him with money because he has no job and a baby, is that right?Very interesting idea, EI.

[JerseyGirl]

Eyewitness News 11.com: Police Search for Murdered Mother's Killer (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/042705_NW_durhamhomicide.html)

... Officers remained on the scene Wednesday, scanning the yard with metal detectors. Neighbors say Aboroa moved into the house with her child and husband just a few months ago. She had a 6-month old son who is now staying with family friends. Police did not know if the child was at home when his mother was killed.

Brewer is mourning the loss of a friend who had so much to live for.

"All she wanted was the baby, and she finally got it," she aid. "Now, she's not going to be around to raise it."

[JerseyGirl]

newsobserver.com | Local & State (http://newsobserver.com/news/story/2353536p-8731092c.html)

... She had just gotten a job in bookkeeping at Martin Marietta Materials in Raleigh, Greijn said. The company manufactures construction materials. The victim's husband, Raven Abaroa, worked in sales, he said.

Greijn saw the couple last week to talk about their rental agreement. They said they loved the neighborhood and had found a great baby sitter, Greijn said...

************************************************** **********

Does the first paragraph mean that Raven worked in sales at the same company?

Also, it sounds like one babysitter. (This was an issue that was questioned before.)

[less0305]

newsobserver.com | Local & State (http://newsobserver.com/news/story/2353536p-8731092c.html)

... She had just gotten a job in bookkeeping at Martin Marietta Materials in Raleigh, Greijn said. The company manufactures construction materials. The victim's husband, Raven Abaroa, worked in sales, he said.

Greijn saw the couple last week to talk about their rental agreement. They said they loved the neighborhood and had found a great baby sitter, Greijn said...

************************************************** **********

Does the first paragraph mean that Raven worked in sales at the same company?

Also, it sounds like one babysitter. (This was an issue that was questioned before.)

I think it was just his standard line for employment.....he was in "sales," as in Ebay sales.

[JerseyGirl]

WTVD Video Player (http://ww2.abc11tv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=439696&h1=VIDEO:%20New%20Video%20Surfaces%20of%20Abaroas&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=118100&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&rnd=50714986) from article at Eyewitness News 11.com: New Video Surfaces of Abaroas (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/060305_NW_abaroacouple.html)

From the video: "police insist this was not a random act and the public isn't in any danger."

************************************************** ************************************************** ******
I posted this in the media links but I think it might be worth discussing.

This article/video update is dated June 3rd, and it states that police INSIST that it was not random. Was that a comment made by LE for the June 3rd update? If so, that means that a full 5 weeks after Janet's murder, police are not saying that they believe it was not random; they INSIST that it wasn't random. That statement being made on that date, IMO, is very significant. I believe that LE knows a lot, and that they have a clear direction in this case.

While it is frustrating for those of us sitting here talking and waiting, I do believe that LE is investigating this thoroughly, and are building a case. It was mentioned in the June 3rd update that police were remaining tight-lipped. What is it that's keeping them so tight-lipped? What makes this case different than others, (or are they tight-lipped like this in all unsolved crimes of this nature)?

ETA: An article I read earlier mentioned that police aren't saying much because they do not want to hinder the investigation. Based on the above video, I actually believe them. I think that they know what they're doing but for some reason haven't been able to move any faster just yet.

[Jenifred]

I think that the police are being tight lipped because they know who did it. I think that Janet's family is being tight lipped because LE has asked them to keep quiet in hopes that this will keep the perp relaxed and not hostile--giving them the sense that they've gotten away with murder. And I hope, above all, that LE hasn't made an arrest because they are waiting to find that one piece of evidence that will send the perp straight to jail. And I know, this has been said by every single member here too.

Maybe we should start a thread with our guesses on when LE is going to come back with an arrest warrant.

[lauriej]

I think it was just his standard line for employment.....he was in "sales," as in Ebay sales.
.........in feb.05, he mentioned that he was looking for a 'real job'.......i'm looking for proof that he ever got one...

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?p=55480#post55480

02/15/2005, 09:42 AM
NC_VX

I am now working for an IT training company out of Raleigh, however I am not making near what I need to survive. I am still steadily interviewing for some higher paying jobs and one job I am in as a finalist.

[SouthEastSleuth]

WTVD Video Player (http://ww2.abc11tv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=439696&h1=VIDEO:%20New%20Video%20Surfaces%20of%20Abaroas&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=118100&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&rnd=50714986) from article at Eyewitness News 11.com: New Video Surfaces of Abaroas (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/060305_NW_abaroacouple.html)

From the video: "police insist this was not a random act and the public isn't in any danger."

************************************************** ************************************************** ******
I posted this in the media links but I think it might be worth discussing.

This article/video update is dated June 3rd, and it states that police INSIST that it was not random. Was that a comment made by LE for the June 3rd update? If so, that means that a full 5 weeks after Janet's murder, police are not saying that they believe it was not random; they INSIST that it wasn't random. That statement being made on that date, IMO, is very significant. I believe that LE knows a lot, and that they have a clear direction in this case.

While it is frustrating for those of us sitting here talking and waiting, I do believe that LE is investigating this thoroughly, and are building a case. It was mentioned in the June 3rd update that police were remaining tight-lipped. What is it that's keeping them so tight-lipped? What makes this case different than others, (or are they tight-lipped like this in all similar cases)?

ETA: An article I read earlier mentioned that police aren't saying much because they do not want to hinder the investigation. Based on the above video, I actually believe them. I think that they know what they're doing but for some reason haven't been able to move any faster just yet.

You're right JG, "insist" is indeed a strong word to use....as if the point is to almost imply, 'we know who did this.'

That said, the only thing I can speculate on, as far as being "tight-lipped," is that LE must have a good idea about the WHO in this case, and is tight-lipped, as they build the case for an arrest. And building the case could be anything from lab results, to verifying an alibi, etc. Perhaps it's as simple as this -

by saying NOTHING, they're saying a LOT.


But more and more, I really believe, and this is must my opinion, that LE knows exactly who the suspect is...nothing else makes sense to me.... and that are taking their time, putting together the case, and then will make the arrest.

[JerseyGirl]

I think that the police are being tight lipped because they know who did it. I think that Janet's family is being tight lipped because LE has asked them to keep quiet in hopes that this will keep the perp relaxed and not hostile--giving them the sense that they've gotten away with murder. And I hope, above all, that LE hasn't made an arrest because they are waiting to find that one piece of evidence that will send the perp straight to jail. And I know, this has been said by every single member here too.Or waiting on forensics, or comparing statements between countless "witnesses", etc. If he really played soccer that night, there would probably be quite a few statements that needed to be taken. And an article I saw earlier mentioned that they had questioned neighbors. So I imagine that without a "smoking gun", they need some time to piece everything together effectively.

[lauriej]

WTVD Video Player (http://ww2.abc11tv.com/global/video/popup/pop_player.asp?ClipID1=439696&h1=VIDEO:%20New%20Video%20Surfaces%20of%20Abaroas&vt1=v&at1=News&d1=118100&activePane=info&playerVersion=1&rnd=50714986) from article at Eyewitness News 11.com: New Video Surfaces of Abaroas (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/060305_NW_abaroacouple.html)

From the video: "police insist this was not a random act and the public isn't in any danger."

************************************************** ************************************************** ******
I posted this in the media links but I think it might be worth discussing.

This article/video update is dated June 3rd, and it states that police INSIST that it was not random. Was that a comment made by LE for the June 3rd update? If so, that means that a full 5 weeks after Janet's murder, police are not saying that they believe it was not random; they INSIST that it wasn't random. That statement being made on that date, IMO, is very significant. I believe that LE knows a lot, and that they have a clear direction in this case.

While it is frustrating for those of us sitting here talking and waiting, I do believe that LE is investigating this thoroughly, and are building a case. It was mentioned in the June 3rd update that police were remaining tight-lipped. What is it that's keeping them so tight-lipped? What makes this case different than others, (or are they tight-lipped like this in all similar cases)?

ETA: An article I read earlier mentioned that police aren't saying much because they do not want to hinder the investigation. Based on the above video, I actually believe them. I think that they know what they're doing but for some reason haven't been able to move any faster just yet.
..that is very interesting that 5 weeks later, LE is still saying the same thing they said right from the start...
...and based on the backlog situation at the raleigh crime lab, that they are waiting for those results, at which time we'll see an arrest...

[ewwwinteresting]

Eyewitness News 11.com: Police Search for Murdered Mother's Killer (http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/news/042705_NW_durhamhomicide.html)

... Officers remained on the scene Wednesday, scanning the yard with metal detectors. Neighbors say Aboroa moved into the house with her child and husband just a few months ago. She had a 6-month old son who is now staying with family friends. Police did not know if the child was at home when his mother was killed.

Brewer is mourning the loss of a friend who had so much to live for.

"All she wanted was the baby, and she finally got it," she aid. "Now, she's not going to be around to raise it."
Good find JG. I hadn't seen that article either. I would have loved to have seen the video that went along with it.

[NCBanker]

Sorry for the delay in response. I've been out of town all day. My cousin knew them both well. He and his girlfriend at the time went out quite a bit with Raven and Janet. There's no way to know how much money Raven's family received from the Church over the years. Remember though, that the system is set up to guard against abuse. They couldn't go from one Bishop to another. In order to request monetary assistance, you go to your Bishop. Bishops preside over wards, which are comprised of members in a geographic area, i.e. east Durham = Durham 1st Ward, west Durham = Durham 2nd Ward. Relative to any assistance he may receive from the Church, I can't speculate. He may be assisted in finding a new job. I doubt highly, however, that he's getting any money right now.

I moved it over here since the question didn't belong on the other thread :)

Your cousin knew Raven and Janet both well or just one of them? If the family moved around a alot, would there be a way to track how much money they received from the church? Could they go from Bishop to Bishop and ask for money? Maybe Raven learned this growing up and did the same thing as an adult?? It is also conceivable that the church will now help him with money because he has no job and a baby, is that right?

[snapple]

Sorry for the delay in response. I've been out of town all day. My cousin knew them both well. He and his girlfriend at the time went out quite a bit with Raven and Janet. There's no way to know how much money Raven's family received from the Church over the years. Remember though, that the system is set up to guard against abuse. They couldn't go from one Bishop to another. In order to request monetary assistance, you go to your Bishop. Bishops preside over wards, which are comprised of members in a geographic area, i.e. east Durham = Durham 1st Ward, west Durham = Durham 2nd Ward. Relative to any assistance he may receive from the Church, I can't speculate. He may be assisted in finding a new job. I doubt highly, however, that he's getting any money right now.
Since Raven has moved around so much, could he in essence have multiple Bishops because he has been in multiple wards? Would the Bishops communicate with each other to know whether he already has received money? Could Raven be benefitting financially from this murder because members of his church would feel sorry for him?

[juliagoulia]

Since Raven has moved around so much, could he in essence have multiple Bishops because he has been in multiple wards? Would the Bishops communicate with each other to know whether he already has received money? Could Raven be benefitting financially from this murder because members of his church would feel sorry for him?
Whenever he moved to a new city (or sometimes to a different part of the same city depending on the Mormon population), Raven would have recieved a new Bishop. He would never be under the "jurisdiction" of more than one bishop at any time. It is not protocol for previous Bishops to communicate about financial assistance but, as NCBanker said, the system is set up to prevent abuse. Bishops consider these funds sacred and never distribute them without careful consideration. However, it is a system that is ultimately run by very human, and therefore falliable individuals.

My guess is that if he is receiving assistance now, it would be from individual donations from ward members and NOT from the ward itself.

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: I think it was just his standard line for employment.....he was in "sales," as in Ebay sales.
Someone has been paying attention here :)

[Jenifred]

I doubt highly, however, that he's getting any money right now.Of course he's not getting anything from the church because he's got a memorial fund that sympathetic people have funded to live off of. And I'm sure that people have probably donated to him directly too. Didn't we hear from golfmom that he had recently purchased a new $500 phone?

[NCBanker]

I couldn't have said it better myself, JuliaGoulia. Well put!

I will say that Bishops DO communicate with each other from time to time. I've seen cases where a new member moves into the area and appears to be very active and earnest. They almost immediately make an appointment with the Bishop to request financial assistance. Because they've just moved there, the Bishop may inquire as to where they last lived (in order to request their records be moved) and if they had received assistance from the Church there. Regardless of the individual's answer, the Bishop would call the previous Bishop in order to find out what's been going on. I've seen this done many times.


Whenever he moved to a new city (or sometimes to a different part of the same city depending on the Mormon population), Raven would have recieved a new Bishop. He would never be under the "jurisdiction" of more than one bishop at any time. It is not protocol for previous Bishops to communicate about financial assistance but, as NCBanker said, the system is set up to prevent abuse. Bishops consider these funds sacred and never distribute them without careful consideration. However, it is a system that is ultimately run by very human, and therefore falliable individuals.

My guess is that if he is receiving assistance now, it would be from individual donations from ward members and NOT from the ward itself.

[curious1]

I was out with my husband last night and I looked up and saw a black VX staring back at me. It stopped me dead in my tracks. I use to just look at them and think, 'what a funny looking little vehicle'. This time I came to a dead stop and looked around me. It was odd. I guess this case has really gotten to me.

[JerseyGirl]

I was out with my husband last night and I looked up and saw a black VX staring back at me. It stopped me dead in my tracks. I use to just look at them and think, 'what a funny looking little vehicle'. This time I came to a dead stop and looked around me. It was odd. I guess this case has really gotten to me.I had a similar situation when I was in traffic one day behind an Acura with NC plates. I looked to the driver, and it was a male wearing a baseball cap. I never did get to see the driver's face but it's probably safe to assume that it wasn't Raven here in my neck of the woods. :)

[lauriej]

..i wonder if he ever got the dodge durango back from LE? did he ever really sell the ducati ? i presume he's driving the VX, the 'attention getter'...

[Jenifred]

..i wonder if he ever got the dodge durango back from LE? did he ever really sell the ducati ? i presume he's driving the VX, the 'attention getter'...
Isn't he still in UT? I don't think that a single man with an infant would have even attempted the drive from VA to UT alone. I think that he flew. So, he probably doesn't have any "ride" right now. Which makes me wonder, where is it parked while he's in UT?

[lauriej]

..yes, i agree that he no doubt flew to utah, when he IS driving, i would think it's the VX....if he is selling off vehicles, i think the VX would be the last to go...

[icare]

I too saw a VX today and it stopped me dead! I even looked to see if it may have been him!

[JerseyGirl]

..i wonder if he ever got the dodge durango back from LE? did he ever really sell the ducati ? i presume he's driving the VX, the 'attention getter'...You know, I read an article yesterday that mentioned that they had searched the Durango because it was sitting on the driveway when police arrived on the crime scene. So is that all it takes to avoid having your other vehicles searched ... park them somewhere else?

[JerseyGirl]

Isn't he still in UT? I don't think that a single man with an infant would have even attempted the drive from VA to UT alone. I think that he flew. So, he probably doesn't have any "ride" right now. Which makes me wonder, where is it parked while he's in UT?Probably in the same obscure location in which his other vehicles were parked on the night of the murder.

[ewwwinteresting]

I had a similar situation when I was in traffic one day behind an Acura with NC plates. I looked to the driver, and it was a male wearing a baseball cap. I never did get to see the driver's face but it's probably safe to assume that it wasn't Raven here in my neck of the woods. :)
Unless he was heading up to Maine? Someone posted that he had family up there and was going to stay with them for awhile. Of course, I highly doubt he would be driving the Acura when he would be noticed so much more in the VX.

[snapple]

Unless he was heading up to Maine? Someone posted that he had family up there and was going to stay with them for awhile. Of course, I highly doubt he would be driving the Acura when he would be noticed so much more in the VX.Did we ever find out what actually happened to the Acura, was it sold? given to someone? or just sitting in a vacant lot?

[lauriej]

Did we ever find out what actually happened to the Acura, was it sold? given to someone? or just sitting in a vacant lot?
.......we had heard that someone in janet's family has it...

[ewwwinteresting]

.......we had heard that someone in janet's family has it...
Janet's family or Raven's family?

[lauriej]

06-09-2005, 01:46 PM
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The police took the Durango. (Don't know where it is now)
Raven drives the VX.
The Acura is with family members.
I don't know where the motorcycle is or was.


...i had thought janet's family...but digging up the post, it could be either...

[ewwwinteresting]

06-09-2005, 01:46 PM
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The police took the Durango. (Don't know where it is now)
Raven drives the VX.
The Acura is with family members.
I don't know where the motorcycle is or was.


...i had thought janet's family...but digging up the post, it could be either...
If I had to guess, I would guess Raven's family.

[booradley]

Hello: Well thanks to all of you, I stayed up until 3:00 a.m. I saw a reference to this case on the Natalee H. site and came over. Once I started reading I could not stop! I live in Hillsborough, could walk to the courthouse, less than 5 minutes from Eurosport and probably 10 minutes from their home. I have friends who live very near to the house, why haven't I heard about this? There seems to be no local media coverage. Thank you all for all your hard work. Having said all this, I have at least a couple of items to offer (nothing major, and I do not know either Janet or Raven). There is a soccer field just up the road from where I live at St Mary's catholic school where there are pick-up soccer games every night and weekend! Going the back way from Raven's house, it is probably 10 - 15 minutes away at the most. As NCBanker has mentioned, many of the people who play there are hispanic. I know many of the families because I work for Head Start and many of the children attend our programs. Many of these parents do not speak English, may be an additional reason no one has come forward to say they played with Raven that night. JMO of course Also, I am wondering if the fact that the Durham DA's office is in a state of turmoil, might have anything to do with why there has been no arrest in the case. In case you haven't heard, and I do apologize if this is already posted somewhere, (I didn't get through all of the threads last night!) Jim Hardin of Michael Peterson fame was made a judge last month or so, Michael Wilfong took over as head of DA, Freda "Pure T" Black resigned as well as one or two other attorneys. There is also one other attorney on maternity leave. Sound very short staffed. So it may be the hold up is with the DA not the LE. IMO most other crime in Durham is drug and gang related, seems this case would be given priority in homicide. Even the drunk driving vehicular homicide case that is getting a lot of press seems to be moving along despite multi attempts by the accused to stall it. Finally, I have a friend who works for the Durham courts, I will see if she has any insight and let you all know. I apologize for jumping in and rambling on, hope you all don't mind. Just let me know what else you'd like me to look into.

[JerseyGirl]

...i had thought janet's family...but digging up the post, it could be either...I thought I remembered hearing that too.

[JerseyGirl]

I apologize for jumping in and rambling on, hope you all don't mind.Are you kidding? Your information about the soccer issue is amazing! We've been going crazy trying to research soccer in that area, and until now, all we've had is speculation about pick-up games! Thank you a million times for that information! And welcome to WS ... I certainly look forward to more of your insights. :)

ETA: I also look forward to hearing anything your friend who works in the courts might have to say. It's such a sad commentary that you are so local, and you've heard nothing about the case. Do you watch the news or read the paper frequently? If so, the fact that you haven't heard about this case certainly says something to me.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Hello: Well thanks to all of you, I stayed up until 3:00 a.m. I saw a reference to this case on the Natalee H. site and came over. Once I started reading I could not stop! I live in Hillsborough, could walk to the courthouse, less than 5 minutes from Eurosport and probably 10 minutes from their home. I have friends who live very near to the house, why haven't I heard about this? There seems to be no local media coverage. Thank you all for all your hard work. Having said all this, I have at least a couple of items to offer (nothing major, and I do not know either Janet or Raven). There is a soccer field just up the road from where I live at St Mary's catholic school where there are pick-up soccer games every night and weekend! Going the back way from Raven's house, it is probably 10 - 15 minutes away at the most. As NCBanker has mentioned, many of the people who play there are hispanic. I know many of the families because I work for Head Start and many of the children attend our programs. Many of these parents do not speak English, may be an additional reason no one has come forward to say they played with Raven that night. JMO of course Also, I am wondering if the fact that the Durham DA's office is in a state of turmoil, might have anything to do with why there has been no arrest in the case. In case you haven't heard, and I do apologize if this is already posted somewhere, (I didn't get through all of the threads last night!) Jim Hardin of Michael Peterson fame was made a judge last month or so, Michael Wilfong took over as head of DA, Freda "Pure T" Black resigned as well as one or two other attorneys. There is also one other attorney on maternity leave. Sound very short staffed. So it may be the hold up is with the DA not the LE. IMO most other crime in Durham is drug and gang related, seems this case would be given priority in homicide. Even the drunk driving vehicular homicide case that is getting a lot of press seems to be moving along despite multi attempts by the accused to stall it. Finally, I have a friend who works for the Durham courts, I will see if she has any insight and let you all know. I apologize for jumping in and rambling on, hope you all don't mind. Just let me know what else you'd like me to look into.

Hi boo - I'm local as well, and the drama in the DAs office has certainly been on my mind with regards to this case. I had to LOL when you wrote "pure t".... I think the humor in that is a "southern thang" as they say, and I laughed hard at the time, and still do on occasion! But, I digress...

I've often speculated that the hold-up with any movement in this case may in fact have nothing to do with lab results, etc., but instead may be all about alibis...and especially alibi versus TOD. Who knows. And boy, while I completely understand the thinking of you and NCBanker, with regards to the Hispanic soccer teams in the area, I really do hope the hold-up is not as simple as that - getting someone to talk (who may be an illegal alien, etc), re., an alibi. But, maybe so. Who knows. I can tell you this, if I were in that situation, and it was ME that had to establish my alibi - I don't care if I was playing soccer with Osama bin Laden that night, somehow, someway, I'd find Osama again, and if nothing else, get him to give a statement thru an attorney or something.. I mean if someone questions a person's involvement in the murder of their wife, then I would HOPE that person worked overtime to even help LE, if necessary, verfiy an alibi...if not, the cloud of suspicion remains, indefinitely... But again, that's me....

[JerseyGirl]

With Raven only being gone from the home for a couple of hours, TOD might end up being completely worthless. I really don't think that TOD is going to help anything unfortunately.

[JerseyGirl]

I'm wondering again if the hold-up could simply be trying to find anyone that might have been there that night. Booradley, do you know if the pick-up games at that field are well-organized - do they keep records of who shows up, etc., or is it just a bunch of folks getting together without the hassle of record-keeping, etc.?

[SouthEastSleuth]

There is a soccer field just up the road from where I live at St Mary's catholic school where there are pick-up soccer games every night and weekend! Going the back way from Raven's house, it is probably 10 - 15 minutes away at the most.
Boo - Is this the soccer field on the corner of St. Mary's Road and Pleasant Green (or maybe it's Schley on that side of of St. Mary's)? If so, you raise a really good point about that being a possibility.. I had never thought of that field before... but you're absolutely right, I bet it's not even 10 minutes from Ferrand! (ok, so I tend to drive a little on the fast side! LOL... but I checked on Yahoo maps, and the distance from that intersection at St. Mary's Road, to 2606 Ferrand, looks to be about 8 miles).

And as JG posted, I wonder what the deal is with that field...who plays, when, etc. I have been by there before on a weekend when soccer was being played, and as I recall the people playing were in uniforms, not that that matters really, but I guess it could be used for organized teams, p/u games, whatever...

Might be worth "digging into" a little, just to get a better sense of that field, who plays there, etc.

Anyone who plays in the area have any insights??

[booradley]

Yes, that is the field I am talking about at St Mary's and Pleasant Green I think. Did you see an article in the paper last week that talked about selling the school (St Mary's?) I thought I remember it saying that the soccer field could be used by rec and parks if county bought the school, implying that now it is just being used informally. SES I think you are right about the time it would take to get there being around 10 minutes or so from Raven's home. I think it is very possible that he might have been at that field rather than the one in carrboro mentioned by someone else, just because of the proximity and because having worked at Eurosports in Hillsborough, he probably knew people in immediate vicinity to play at St. Mary's. One last thought. I too have noticed folks wearing uniforms playing on Sunday mornings at St Mary's. Other times during the week when I go by, seems more informal ie. no uniforms. I will ride by this pm and see if anything is going on there. To answer your question Jersey Girl, yes I am an avid reader of all local papers, watch local news less frequently, I saw absolutely nothing about this in either paper (must have missed the intial report right after the murder) but have seen no follow up. Do you think LE is being so tight with this case because of what happened with Michael Peterson case, so much media, so much speculation? Just a thought.

[JerseyGirl]

Jersey Girl, yes I am an avid reader of all local papers, watch local news less frequently, I saw absolutely nothing about this in either paper (must have missed the intial report right after the murder) but have seen no follow up. Do you think LE is being so tight with this case because of what happened with Michael Peterson case, so much media, so much speculation? Just a thought.I don't know the impact that the Peterson trial had on the town since I'm not local. But if you, as an avid news follower, haven't seen this story until now, it's obvious that LE hasn't been reaching out for any of the soccer players from that night to come forward. So it seems like they aren't necessarily hung up on that issue. So possibly either his alibi is verified (or at least they've spoken with the people he claims to have been with), or for some other reason they don't need to reach out to the public.

Of course, with the limits of narrowing TOD and the extremely close proximity of that field to the house, I'm not sure Raven's alibi would mean anything at all if he played at that field that night. In that case, I imagine that the hard evidence would be that much more critical.

[ewwwinteresting]

I don't know the impact that the Peterson trial had on the town since I'm not local. But if you, as an avid news follower, haven't seen this story until now, it's obvious that LE hasn't been reaching out for any of the soccer players from that night to come forward. So it seems like they aren't necessarily hung up on that issue. So possibly either his alibi is verified (or at least they've spoken with the people he claims to have been with), or for some other reason they don't need to reach out to the public.

Of course, with the limits of narrowing TOD and the extremely close proximity of that field to the house, I'm not sure Raven's alibi would mean anything at all if he played at that field that night. In that case, I imagine that the hard evidence would be that much more critical.
I can understand LE being tightlipped because of the Peterson trial...what I don't understand is why the media is being tightlipped?

I am thinking that the alibi really doesn't matter much. I mean we have a window of less than four hours of Janet's murder. If he was playing soccer from 8:30 to 10:30 or 7:30 to 9:30 or not at all, I don't think it would clear him. Janet could have been killed prior to him leaving or after he got home or he didn't go at all. I agree with JG, TOD is only going to be able to be established within a couple of hours so maybe insignificant in this matter as evidence. I guess what could happen is that IF Raven told LE he was playing soccer and they found out he didn't or wasn't there the exact times he said he was, then he would be a liar (duh!) and why would he lie about where he was on the night his wife was murdered?

[JerseyGirl]

I guess what could happen is that IF Raven told LE he was playing soccer and they found out he didn't or wasn't there the exact times he said he was, then he would be a liar (duh!) and why would he lie about where he was on the night his wife was murdered?Good point. And even if one would lie about being at a soccer game, I imagine it would still take a while to determine that lie, and only after interviewing a number of people that really were at that location on that night.

[Jenifred]

I can understand LE being tightlipped because of the Peterson trial...what I don't understand is why the media is being tightlipped?
If you think about it, what does the media really have to go on other than speculation? It doesn't look like any friends or family of the Abaroa's want to talk about anything pertaining to the case. And this is unfortunate because the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I think that if someone were to break the silence, even if LE asked them to pipe up, this case would probably have the media attention it needs. If someone was willing to talk about the affairs, more about the embezzlement charges, Raven's mental health, etc. this could light the fire and get LE to make some kind of statement.

BTW, welcome to the new members. Did someone ever give bluegirl some help?

[ewwwinteresting]

If you think about it, what does the media really have to go on other than speculation? It doesn't look like any friends or family of the Abaroa's want to talk about anything pertaining to the case. And this is unfortunate because the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I think that if someone were to break the silence, even if LE asked them to pipe up, this case would probably have the media attention it needs. If someone was willing to talk about the affairs, more about the embezzlement charges, Raven's mental health, etc. this could light the fire and get LE to make some kind of statement.

BTW, welcome to the new members. Did someone ever give bluegirl some help?
Yes, except SES did a great post (albeit long :) ) on all kinds of stories the media could run in addition to doing their own reportive investigation. Even a story about LE making a statement about non random and then no followup would be a story. Now I do have to agree with you Jen, if anybody would talk, there would be much more interest in this case by the media.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Yes, that is the field I am talking about at St Mary's and Pleasant Green I think. Did you see an article in the paper last week that talked about selling the school (St Mary's?) I thought I remember it saying that the soccer field could be used by rec and parks if county bought the school, implying that now it is just being used informally. SES I think you are right about the time it would take to get there being around 10 minutes or so from Raven's home. I think it is very possible that he might have been at that field rather than the one in carrboro mentioned by someone else, just because of the proximity and because having worked at Eurosports in Hillsborough, he probably knew people in immediate vicinity to play at St. Mary's. One last thought. I too have noticed folks wearing uniforms playing on Sunday mornings at St Mary's. Other times during the week when I go by, seems more informal ie. no uniforms. I will ride by this pm and see if anything is going on there. To answer your question Jersey Girl, yes I am an avid reader of all local papers, watch local news less frequently, I saw absolutely nothing about this in either paper (must have missed the intial report right after the murder) but have seen no follow up. Do you think LE is being so tight with this case because of what happened with Michael Peterson case, so much media, so much speculation? Just a thought.

Boo - It just occurs to me, as I recall, that field doesn't have lights does it? And if Raven was playing a p/u game in April, in the evening (as he presumably didn't get home until late, as the 911 call is 10:58pm), then it was too early in the year for it be daylight then.... I may be totally wrong, but for the life of me, in my head, I can't picture lights at that field.

[lauriej]

Good point. And even if one would lie about being at a soccer game, I imagine it would still take a while to determine that lie, and only after interviewing a number of people that really were at that location on that night.
...this may or may not make sense to anyone but myself but....

...i saw something a couple of years ago...........( maybe 'cold case files.......maybe law & order, csi.....one of 'those' programs..)

...anyway, the POI had said he was at an outdoor concert( or something like that....small , concert-in-the-park thing..)).................the POI says,"sorry, i was there alone.............lots of people, i didn't know any of them.....blah blah..."

...LE took every pair of shoes the guy owned, then took 'soil samples' from the place where the concert was.................voila', they couldn't place any of his shoes at the 'concert'...........and they cracked his alibi........

...yes..i know............that was a t.v.show........

...but, didn't LE take a lot of raven's shoes ?

...could raven have said........."yes, i played in an impromptu pick up soccer game...............sorry, can't name any of the others.....blah blah......."
...LE then says..........."ok, give us all of your shoes, and WE'LL place you at that game/that soccer field...........or not.".(.based on soil, samples ? )

...or maybe i'm just grasping at straws..........

[juliagoulia]

Here is the sunset info for Durham on April 26, 2005 (from http://aa.usno.navy.mil/)

Begin civil twilight 6:01 a.m.
Sunrise 6:29 a.m.
Sun transit 1:13 p.m.
Sunset 7:59 p.m.
End civil twilight 8:26 p.m.

The weather that night was overcast with fog (from http://www.erh.noaa.gov/rah/data/rdulcd.april.2005.html), so I can't imagine any good visibility--without lights--after 8:26pm.

[juliagoulia]

...could raven have said........."yes, i played in an impromptu pick up soccer game...............sorry, can't name any of the others.....blah blah......."
...LE then says..........."ok, give us all of your shoes, and WE'LL place you at that game/that soccer field...........or not.".(.based on soil, samples ? )
...or maybe i'm just grasping at straws..........
This was my initial reaction when I heard they took soil samples from the Durango--that they were trying to put Raven at the soccer field that night. But the shoes make more sense.

[lauriej]

excellent info julia...thankyou.....!

...i know earlier on there was lots of talk about lighted soccer fields..........but, if raven played on one of those that was NOT lit.......( or says he did..), then he sure had a lot of time between 8:30 and the 911 call at ( almost ) 11 p.m...

...and that's even if it took him an HOUR to get home from the game...........

...having concrete info on the game...........start/end time.....lit/not lit field is suddenly crucial...........

[Jenifred]

Yes, except SES did a great post (albeit long :) ) on all kinds of stories the media could run in addition to doing their own reportive investigation. Even a story about LE making a statement about non random and then no followup would be a story. Now I do have to agree with you Jen, if anybody would talk, there would be much more interest in this case by the media.
I am right there with you ewww. I think that there are numerous stories to be made. But, so much of the information is unconfirmed/heresay. And because of the silence, no one can back up the information.:confused: Thus we come here day after day to do our best to remember this case and the fact that they are no closer, in our eyes, to solving this crime.

[SouthEastSleuth]

...this may or may not make sense to anyone but myself but....

...i saw something a couple of years ago...........( maybe 'cold case files.......maybe law & order, csi.....one of 'those' programs..)

...anyway, the POI had said he was at an outdoor concert( or something like that....small , concert-in-the-park thing..)).................the POI says,"sorry, i was there alone.............lots of people, i didn't know any of them.....blah blah..."

...LE took every pair of shoes the guy owned, then took 'soil samples' from the place where the concert was.................voila', they couldn't place any of his shoes at the 'concert'...........and they cracked his alibi........

...yes..i know............that was a t.v.show........

...but, didn't LE take a lot of raven's shoes ?

...could raven have said........."yes, i played in an impromptu pick up soccer game...............sorry, can't name any of the others.....blah blah......."
...LE then says..........."ok, give us all of your shoes, and WE'LL place you at that game/that soccer field...........or not.".(.based on soil, samples ? )

...or maybe i'm just grasping at straws..........

I think these are very interesting observations lj. I always wondered about all those shoes...didn't the warrant list like 3-4 pairs or something? I mean ok, logic would say, take the ones he's wearing, take any he had on to play soccer, etc., but after that? SOMETHING sure led them to believe that should take all those shoes, for sure.

[lauriej]

..just skimmed the warrant again........

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=1;w=800

..4 pairs of shoes............2 pairs of socks........... and 5 'soil samples'........

[JerseyGirl]

I think these are very interesting observations lj. I always wondered about all those shoes...didn't the warrant list like 3-4 pairs or something? I mean ok, logic would say, take the ones he's wearing, take any he had on to play soccer, etc., but after that? SOMETHING sure led them to believe that should take all those shoes, for sure.Raven posted a photo that showed a closet in the background with the door open, and clothes in it. It could be that the shoes had blood spatter on them. They would have taken them in that case but perhaps they might also be checking to see if any of those shoes also had evidence of a recent trip to a soccer field as well. (I'm not sure when the photo was taken but wasn't it posted the day prior to the murder? Chances are probably good, knowing Raven's penchant for tech toys, the photo was probably taken with a digital camera and posted in short order.)

I'm confused about the two pairs of socks but I suppose that they could have been lying on the floor in the closet or elsewhere in the room.

[lauriej]

true................good point JG.......i'm sure everything that had blood spatter was takien....

...the warrant also lists: sweatshirt, undershirt, shirt, shorts.........
http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=14;w=800

...which i always thought wasd a LOT for raven to be wearing that night.........but again, maybe one or 2 of those items was in the closet, and had blood spatter as well..........

.....in addition to the above articles of clothing, shoes, and socks ( blue ) and socks ( white ) were : ( as stated on the warrant ) : items collected by CSI from the victim's husband, raven...
...i would think that to mean, that is what he said he was wearing that night...........ALL of the above.........

...( b/c , items collected from the closet, by CSI, would be noted as such ?)

[ewwwinteresting]

Raven posted a photo that showed a closet in the background with the door open, and clothes in it. It could be that the shoes had blood spatter on them. They would have taken them in that case but perhaps they might also be checking to see if any of those shoes also had evidence of a recent trip to a soccer field as well. (I'm not sure when the photo was taken but wasn't it posted the day prior to the murder? Chances are probably good, knowing Raven's penchant for tech toys, the photo was probably taken with a digital camera and posted in short order.)

I'm confused about the two pairs of socks but I suppose that they could have been lying on the floor in the closet or elsewhere in the room.
Good points all of you. All of a sudden we are seeing items on the search warrant that need to be discussed! Didn't they name the color or a brand of sweatshirt, which I thought was the same sweatshirt Raven was wearing in that picture at the computer. I'm thinking he had on the undershirt, shirt and sweatshirt when LE arrived and they took those clothes. The 4 pair of shoes are to match something.....soil? or maybe footprints? I'm wondering if soil testing would take 2 months? Gee, give me the dang shoes and I'll go compare the soil with the soccer field!

[ewwwinteresting]

...( b/c , items collected from the closet, by CSI, would be noted as such ?)
I'm thinking that they described the scene as alot of blood on the floor and some blood on the wall (or something like that). Do you think if there was blood in other places, they would have said walls or wall and closet??

[JerseyGirl]

I'm thinking that they described the scene as alot of blood on the floor and some blood on the wall (or something like that). Do you think if there was blood in other places, they would have said walls or wall and closet??You're right. And I don't recall it sounding like a messy scene. The blood on the wall, as I believe Timex pointed out, was noted as a smear, (as opposed to spatter). The blood on the floor was mentioned as "a lot of blood on the floor under the victim" or something like that, wasn't it? I could be totally wrong, but I don't see it as being covered with spatter so there might very well be another explanation for what was taken.

[ewwwinteresting]

You're right. And I don't recall it sounding like a messy scene. The blood on the wall, as I believe Timex pointed out, was noted as a smear, (as opposed to spatter). The blood on the floor was mentioned as "a lot of blood on the floor under the victim" or something like that, wasn't it? I could be totally wrong, but I don't see it as being covered with spatter so there might very well be another explanation for what was taken.
If there was a lot of blood on the floor and Raven tried to save her (according to Rooster), there would be bloody footprints in the house. I wonder if the shoes Raven was wearing when LE arrived weren't bloody and there were no footprints in the house. This would indicate the house was cleaned and Raven changed shoes. That would be a red flag to me if I was LE.

[mad hatter]

Raven posted a photo that showed a closet in the background with the door open, and clothes in it. It could be that the shoes had blood spatter on them. They would have taken them in that case but perhaps they might also be checking to see if any of those shoes also had evidence of a recent trip to a soccer field as well. (I'm not sure when the photo was taken but wasn't it posted the day prior to the murder? Chances are probably good, knowing Raven's penchant for tech toys, the photo was probably taken with a digital camera and posted in short order.)

I'm confused about the two pairs of socks but I suppose that they could have been lying on the floor in the closet or elsewhere in the room.
Would LE have taken the shoes/socks or other items of clothing he was wearing? Alot of guys wear 2 pairs of socks at a time (not sure why!).....

[ewwwinteresting]

Would LE have taken the shoes/socks or other items of clothing he was wearing? Alot of guys wear 2 pairs of socks at a time (not sure why!).....
That is what I think and additional shoes. But if Raven murdered Janet, I'm sure he would have gotten rid of the clothes and shoes he was wearing while committing the crime. Probably dumped bleach all over them and buried then out in the woods with the murder weapon. Just out of curiosity, would bleach remove blood, dna from clothes, shoes and the knife?

[mad hatter]

That is what I think and additional shoes. But if Raven murdered Janet, I'm sure he would have gotten rid of the clothes and shoes he was wearing while committing the crime. Probably dumped bleach all over them and buried then out in the woods with the murder weapon. Just out of curiosity, would bleach remove blood, dna from clothes, shoes and the knife?
I don't know if bleach would remove DNA from clothes. I think that the list of clothing and shoes that were listed as being removed were what he was wearing when LE arrived and that the other items had blood splatter on them. I could imagine that with a new baby and HER working, there house wasn't free of clutter, shoes laying around etc that could have easily have gotten blood on them.

[lauriej]

I'm thinking that they described the scene as alot of blood on the floor and some blood on the wall (or something like that). Do you think if there was blood in other places, they would have said walls or wall and closet??
per the warrant:( page 4 )

http://www.wral.com/slideshow/4444879/detail.html?qs=;s=4;w=800

Investigator Early :

"there was a large amount of blood near the body, there was stains on the wall of the bedroom, and there was blood stains near the side door of the residence,located on the south side.

[NCBanker]

While bleach may not completely remove blood from clothes, a knife, or shoes, it would most definitely corrupt the dna value.

That is what I think and additional shoes. But if Raven murdered Janet, I'm sure he would have gotten rid of the clothes and shoes he was wearing while committing the crime. Probably dumped bleach all over them and buried then out in the woods with the murder weapon. Just out of curiosity, would bleach remove blood, dna from clothes, shoes and the knife?

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: Hello: Well thanks to all of you, I stayed up until 3:00 a.m. I saw a reference to this case on the Natalee H. site and came over. Once I started reading I could not stop!
We should probably have a warning on this forum. "Once you start, you won't be able to let go." :)

This case is just crying out for justice and we are the only ones talking about it!!!:banghead:

[NCBanker]

Well said!!!

:laugh:
We should probably have a warning on this forum. "Once you start, you won't be able to let go." :)

This case is just crying out for justice and we are the only ones talking about it!!!:banghead:

[icare]

When is something going to happen here? I took some time off reading these because I felt like I was becoming a little obsessed....But I knew Janet and I just can't figure out why nothing is happening here. I know that Raven is reading this....

RAVEN...Please tell us that you didn't do this. Why aren't you screaming from the rooftops?

I just don't understand.

[Moxie]

When is something going to happen here? I took some time off reading these because I felt like I was becoming a little obsessed....But I knew Janet and I just can't figure out why nothing is happening here. I know that Raven is reading this....

RAVEN...Please tell us that you didn't do this. Why aren't you screaming from the rooftops?

I just don't understand.
Hi icare,

I believe he is not talking because his defense attorney has told him not to... And think about these things:

If Raven is innocent, why does he **still** need a defense attorney, over two months after Janet was found murdered?

If Raven is innocent, why is he listening to his defense attorney and not talking?

If Raven is innocent, shouldn't he be confident in his innocence that he would have no problem publicly stating he is innocent, and that he is fully cooperating with LE to find who did this to Janet, his wife and the mother of his child?

If Raven is innocent, why hasn't LE come out and said, Raven is not a suspect?

If Raven is innocent, the silence is deafening.

[Jenifred]

Hi icare,

I believe he is not talking because his defense attorney has told him not to... And think about these things:

If Raven is innocent, why does he **still** need a defense attorney, over two months after Janet was found murdered?

If Raven is innocent, why is he listening to his defense attorney and not talking?

If Raven is innocent, shouldn't he be confident in his innocence that he would have no problem publicly stating he is innocent, and that he is fully cooperating with LE to find who did this to Janet, his wife and the mother of his child?

If Raven is innocent, why hasn't LE come out and said, Raven is not a suspect?

If Raven is innocent, the silence is deafening.
You forgot one, if Raven is innocent, why did he refuse to take the polygraph? (of course that's unconfirmed info, right?)

BTW, nice post.

[Moxie]

You forgot one, if Raven is innocent, why did he refuse to take the polygraph? (of course that's unconfirmed info, right?)

BTW, nice post.
Hi JF,

Yes, the refusal to take the polygraph is unconfirmed, but if he had been cooperating with LE, and had agreed to take one, LE would have had no problem in saying that Janet's husband has been cooperating with us, he took a polygraph, he is not a suspect.

Which leads us back to... "this was not a random act..."

[Jenifred]

Hi JF,

Yes, the refusal to take the polygraph is unconfirmed, but if he had been cooperating with LE, and had agreed to take one, LE would have had no problem in saying that Janet's husband has been cooperating with us, he took a polygraph, he is not a suspect.

Which leads us back to... "this was not a random act..."
Isn't it sad how we just keep going in circles? Maybe that should be telling enough.

[Moxie]

Isn't it sad how we just keep going in circles? Maybe that should be telling enough.
Hi JF,

We are doing the right things - look at all that has been uncovered on this board. Given time, faith and persistence, I believe there is more that will be found by the talented WS'ers... Hang in there!!:)

[Chica]

Hi JF,

Yes, the refusal to take the polygraph is unconfirmed, but if he had been cooperating with LE, and had agreed to take one, LE would have had no problem in saying that Janet's husband has been cooperating with us, he took a polygraph, he is not a suspect.

Which leads us back to... "this was not a random act..."
Interesting...that is the same thing LE stated about the Groene murders, "This was not a random murder"...

[icare]

Hi icare,

I believe he is not talking because his defense attorney has told him not to... And think about these things:

If Raven is innocent, why does he **still** need a defense attorney, over two months after Janet was found murdered?

If Raven is innocent, why is he listening to his defense attorney and not talking?

If Raven is innocent, shouldn't he be confident in his innocence that he would have no problem publicly stating he is innocent, and that he is fully cooperating with LE to find who did this to Janet, his wife and the mother of his child?

If Raven is innocent, why hasn't LE come out and said, Raven is not a suspect?

If Raven is innocent, the silence is deafening.
Hi Moxie,

I agree totally with all you said. I am just so frustrated with all of this. I feel pretty strongly that Raven Killed Janet, and I just want justice for her and Kaiden....and soon.

[JerseyGirl]

Interesting...that is the same thing LE stated about the Groene murders, "This was not a random murder"...I think that we need to wait for the details on that one, though. It's such a bizarre case, it's hard to tell exactly what the story is just yet.

[newtv]

Hi JF,

Yes, the refusal to take the polygraph is unconfirmed, but if he had been cooperating with LE, and had agreed to take one, LE would have had no problem in saying that Janet's husband has been cooperating with us, he took a polygraph, he is not a suspect.

Which leads us back to... "this was not a random act..."
dylans remains have been located -thats what i gathered from the press conference..and they got the info from the little girl i think cuz the perp isnt talking..
who is raven?? I dont know the players in this one.

[JerseyGirl]

dylans remains have been located -thats what i gathered from the press conference..and they got the info from the little girl i think cuz the perp isnt talking..
who is raven?? I dont know the players in this one.Raven is the husband of Janet Abaroa, the woman that was murdered inside of their home while he was out at a soccer game.

[ewwwinteresting]

dylans remains have been located -thats what i gathered from the press conference..and they got the info from the little girl i think cuz the perp isnt talking..
who is raven?? I dont know the players in this one.
Hey newtv, nice of you to join us over here. Read up on this case and join us in the discussions, we would love having another mind in all of this!

[ewwwinteresting]

We are doing the right things - look at all that has been uncovered on this board. Given time, faith and persistence, I believe there is more that will be found by the talented WS'ers... Hang in there!!:)
We ARE doing the right thing! Thanks for the pats on all of our backs. :blowkiss:

[goodolebv]

NCBanker, I read both of your replies and was wondering if you or anyone else knows of a way to check the dates of the replies? I remember checking Raven's blog back in April and the only replies I saw were the first two (the deleted one and the leave him alone). Which leads me to believe (whether or not it was his mother) that the post Good reflection was well after Janet's murder. And I would assume that anyone finding their way to Raven's website would have heard about Janet by then.

[ewwwinteresting]

NCBanker, I read both of your replies and was wondering if you or anyone else knows of a way to check the dates of the replies? I remember checking Raven's blog back in April and the only replies I saw were the first two (the deleted one and the leave him alone). Which leads me to believe (whether or not it was his mother) that the post Good reflection was well after Janet's murder. And I would assume that anyone finding their way to Raven's website would have heard about Janet by then.
What I remember goodole is that right after Janet's murder, there was a reporter that asked Raven if he could use some of the pictures from the site. Someone else responded saying just leave him alone. Then several weeks later, another person commented about how good the reflection was on his goals and life (or something like that). That is the comment we thought his mother made since the name is close to hers. Then just last week, or maybe two now, NC made the awesome comment calling out to Raven. Anyway, that's what I remember.

[ItsMe]

NCBanker, I read both of your replies and was wondering if you or anyone else knows of a way to check the dates of the replies? I remember checking Raven's blog back in April and the only replies I saw were the first two (the deleted one and the leave him alone). Which leads me to believe (whether or not it was his mother) that the post Good reflection was well after Janet's murder. And I would assume that anyone finding their way to Raven's website would have heard about Janet by then.

You are so right. It had to be after the fact. I went to Raven's blog the day after Janet was murdered and there were only the 2 replies posted. The one that was later deleted was from a reporter that wanted to do a story, but was having a hard time tracking Raven down & the other which is still there, saying "leave him alone". His mother's reply was not there yet. So, she had to say that after Janet was murdered!!

[ewwwinteresting]

You are so right. It had to be after the fact. I went to Raven's blog the day after Janet was murdered and there were only the 2 replies posted. The one that was later deleted was from a reporter that wanted to do a story, but was having a hard time tracking Raven down & the other which is still there, saying "leave him alone". His mother's reply was not there yet. So, she had to say that after Janet was murdered!!
Which is just insane. I don't see how anybody, knowing the fact that his wife was brutally murdered (perhaps by him), could write that. It's just beyond words!

[Moxie]

You are so right. It had to be after the fact. I went to Raven's blog the day after Janet was murdered and there were only the 2 replies posted. The one that was later deleted was from a reporter that wanted to do a story, but was having a hard time tracking Raven down & the other which is still there, saying "leave him alone". His mother's reply was not there yet. So, she had to say that after Janet was murdered!!
Is there anyway we can find out the date that her comment was posted?

[NCBanker]

I want to touch on a couple of items:

A. Raven continues to have a defense attorney because he has an upcoming embezzlement case. When all this started, he simply reached out to this attorney who was representing him in order to get advice from counsel. I'm not defending him in any way. I'm just clearing that up.

B. The comment that was made on Raven's blog that was later deleted was not posted by a reporter. It was made by someone who was criticizing Raven for not discussing his wife's murder. I don't recall the exact wording, but it was along those lines. For whatever reason, they later deleted it.

[ewwwinteresting]

Is there anyway we can find out the date that her comment was posted?
We noticed it on June 4, 2005 and discussed it on page 1 of the thread Raven's online activity.

[ewwwinteresting]

I want to touch on a couple of items:

A. Raven continues to have a defense attorney because he has an upcoming embezzlement case. When all this started, he simply reached out to this attorney who was representing him in order to get advice from counsel. I'm not defending him in any way. I'm just clearing that up.

B. The comment that was made on Raven's blog that was later deleted was not posted by a reporter. It was made by someone who was criticizing Raven for not discussing his wife's murder. I don't recall the exact wording, but it was along those lines. For whatever reason, they later deleted it.
Is what you're saying, Raven didn't hire an attorney to represent him in the case of the murder of Janet Abaroa, his atty for the embezzlement is just giving him advice on this?

[ewwwinteresting]

B. The comment that was made on Raven's blog that was later deleted was not posted by a reporter. It was made by someone who was criticizing Raven for not discussing his wife's murder. I don't recall the exact wording, but it was along those lines. For whatever reason, they later deleted it.
I think mr. allgood quoted what the guy said on his blog, planethuff/darkside...I'll go look and post it if I can find it!

[ewwwinteresting]

I think mr. allgood quoted what the guy said on his blog, planethuff/darkside...I'll go look and post it if I can find it!
Oops it was mistersugar.com:
Conflict of interest

Isn’t this interesting: Samiha Khanna, the reporter who wrote the News & Observer article (http://newsobserver.com/news/story/2353536p-8731092c.html) about the murder of Janet Abaroa, posted a comment to the weblog of Abaroa’s husband (http://ravenstree.blogspot.com/), asking for permission to use a photo with the article. That comment indicated Khanna knew Janet Abaroa in high school. But, Khanna’s story didn’t disclose that information. That’s an egregious journalism error, especially in light of the fact that the police investigation of Abaroa’s murder, to my knowledge, is still open, and an acquaintance could be a suspect in the investigation.

I sent Khanna an e-mail message this morning asking after the lack of disclosure. No response, but t [T]he comment has since been deleted. Hmm. [Khanna responded shortly after I posted this; I’ll ask permission to post Khanna’s message, which is reasoned and responsive.]

See a screenshot of the comment here (http://mistersugar.com/assets/public/khanna.gif).

This certainly is interesting: Abaroa’s husband posted only one entry to his weblog. That post is quite poignant, about challenges and strengths and personal development. The day after he posted that, his wife was dead.

[Disclosure of my own: I was a neighbor of Abaroa, and Erin, my wife, is a good friend of a woman who was a good friend of Janet Abaroa; more here (http://mistersugar.com/article/3935/murdered).]

[Edited shortly after initial posting to include Khanna response.]

late afternoon on Apr 29, 12:42 pm in "Media" | permalink (http://mistersugar.com/article/3937/conflict-of-interest) | Storian (http://mistersugar.com/article/3937/conflict-of-interest#comment) [3]

[Jenifred]

I want to touch on a couple of items:

A. Raven continues to have a defense attorney because he has an upcoming embezzlement case. When all this started, he simply reached out to this attorney who was representing him in order to get advice from counsel. I'm not defending him in any way. I'm just clearing that up.NCBanker--where did you see that he only has a lawyer for his embezzlement charges? I thought that we have discussed here that he also retained counsel after Janet's murder. Bringing up the count of lawyers to 2.

Just curious to see if you are privy to some new information.

Here's one of the articles from the Media Thread that says he retained counsel sometime in the week after Janet's murder.

http://www.wral.com/news/4443707/detail.html

[NCBanker]

I could be wrong on this, but my local information tells me he only has one (1) attorney. Think about it... If you already had an attorney representing you, would you go out and get another attorney?!? I wouldn't. I'd call the guy I know, with whom I've already been working. I'm 99% certain they're one in the same.


NCBanker--where did you see that he only has a lawyer for his embezzlement charges? I thought that we have discussed here that he also retained counsel after Janet's murder. Bringing up the count of lawyers to 2.

Just curious to see if you are privy to some new information.

Here's one of the articles from the Media Thread that says he retained counsel sometime in the week after Janet's murder.

http://www.wral.com/news/4443707/detail.html

[Moxie]

I could be wrong on this, but my local information tells me he only has one (1) attorney. Think about it... If you already had an attorney representing you, would you go out and get another attorney?!? I wouldn't. I'd call the guy I know, with whom I've already been working. I'm 99% certain they're one in the same.
Good morning! I was of the understanding that Raven had an attorney for the embezzlement charges who is female, and that his attorney for the (not sure what to call it - let's go with pending murder investigation, possible murder charges?) is Julian Mack.

Hope this helps. Thanks!

[Annandale1998]

Hey everybody! I have been watching the WS news, crimeblogs since the week of Janet's murder. I received a phone call that week from a good friend. My screen name is Annandale for a reason. I and 2 of my brothers graduated from Annandale HS. One of my brothers dated Janet the last 2 years of her HS. When I found out I was sick to my stomach. I have several friends who know and mourn Janet. Some of them even attended her wake at The Churchof Latter Day Saints. There were also a lot of parents there. Most were representing for their children who could not come in on the short notice. I thought you might find it interesting that Raven DID NOT attend the second memorial.That is confirmed on several witnesses. Janet was everything you say she is. When we all found out it was sickening. My mother out of all was devastated. We have 6 in our family. And every significant other becomes another branch. I am very sad to say that none of us has actually been in contact since we moved from Annandale in 1998. I moved to Raleigh,NC with my family. so when I received phone calls saying she was killed in Durham I was shocked. I was never great friends with Janet but I just wished some one would have told us she moved so close by. I had just been in the area a few days before her murder delivering flowers for a neighbors company. It made me literally ill to know I drove by the main road the house is off from and had no idea it even exsisted.
Any how, enough rambling. what finally made me come and join the WS was the speculation on Samiha. Again I do not know her but a very, very close friend does. She has been in contact with her a couple times since the murder. samiha was a good friend of Janet's and didn't want to taint any articles with it. First and foremost she wanted the story to be told. Also she was nice enough to let us know that the autopsy is not being released to the reporters or any body. Her family does know the results.You can request it yourself as it is public knowldege. But as I have requested it several weeks ago and have no response I am sure they will stall for a very long time. But I am just an average Joe. I will be reading the posts and news everyday to see justice come forward.NCBanker I give great credit to you for going to the house to take pictures. My mother and I wanted to just to see the oplace but we did chicken out. The thought alone made my stomach lurch. i am a mother of three now and my heart goes out to Kaiden. I can't even imagine what went on in the house that night. But thank goodness he was too small to remember so we hope.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Good morning! I was of the understanding that Raven had an attorney for the embezzlement charges who is female, and that his attorney for the (not sure what to call it - let's go with pending murder investigation, possible murder charges?) is Julian Mack.

Hope this helps. Thanks!

This is interesting. Like NCBanker, I was under the impression, locally, if you will, that Raven hired Julian Mack for the the embezzlement charges, and then retained his services "again" the week after Janet's murder, in the event he needed legal advice in regards to Janet's death.

If there is another lawyer Moxie, I do know for a fact that Julian Mack is the one that met with the ADA in Orange County last month, re., the embezzlement charges. Now that said, it's certainly possible that Raven could have retained Mack initially, but has now hired someone new, I don't know that at all..

[Jenifred]

I could be wrong on this, but my local information tells me he only has one (1) attorney. Think about it... If you already had an attorney representing you, would you go out and get another attorney?!? I wouldn't. I'd call the guy I know, with whom I've already been working. I'm 99% certain they're one in the same.
I'm kind of dumb to the whole courts and lawyers, but don't they specialize? And wouldn't "pending murder invesigation" (thanks, Moxie) be different than embezzlement? I mean does Mark Garagos do real estate law too?--just trying to be humorous.

[Moxie]

This is interesting. Like NCBanker, I was under the impression, locally, if you will, that Raven hired Julian Mack for the the embezzlement charges, and then retained his services "again" the week after Janet's murder, in the event he needed legal advice in regards to Janet's death.

If there is another lawyer Moxie, I do know for a fact that Julian Mack is the one that met with the ADA in Orange County last month, re., the embezzlement charges. Now that said, it's certainly possible that Raven could have retained Mack initially, but has now hired someone new, I don't know that at all..
Okay - then I will defer to you all on that one!!;)

[Jenifred]

Maybe someone in the area can pull out the yellow pages and see if Julian Mack has a little ad about himself.

[Moxie]

Hey everybody! I have been watching the WS news, crimeblogs since the week of Janet's murder. I received a phone call that week from a good friend. My screen name is Annandale for a reason. I and 2 of my brothers graduated from Annandale HS. One of my brothers dated Janet the last 2 years of her HS. When I found out I was sick to my stomach. I have several friends who know and mourn Janet. Some of them even attended her wake at The Churchof Latter Day Saints. There were also a lot of parents there. Most were representing for their children who could not come in on the short notice. I thought you might find it interesting that Raven DID NOT attend the second memorial.That is confirmed on several witnesses. Janet was everything you say she is. When we all found out it was sickening. My mother out of all was devastated. We have 6 in our family. And every significant other becomes another branch. I am very sad to say that none of us has actually been in contact since we moved from Annandale in 1998. I moved to Raleigh,NC with my family. so when I received phone calls saying she was killed in Durham I was shocked. I was never great friends with Janet but I just wished some one would have told us she moved so close by. I had just been in the area a few days before her murder delivering flowers for a neighbors company. It made me literally ill to know I drove by the main road the house is off from and had no idea it even exsisted.
Any how, enough rambling. what finally made me come and join the WS was the speculation on Samiha. Again I do not know her but a very, very close friend does. She has been in contact with her a couple times since the murder. samiha was a good friend of Janet's and didn't want to taint any articles with it. First and foremost she wanted the story to be told. Also she was nice enough to let us know that the autopsy is not being released to the reporters or any body. Her family does know the results.You can request it yourself as it is public knowldege. But as I have requested it several weeks ago and have no response I am sure they will stall for a very long time. But I am just an average Joe. I will be reading the posts and news everyday to see justice come forward.NCBanker I give great credit to you for going to the house to take pictures. My mother and I wanted to just to see the oplace but we did chicken out. The thought alone made my stomach lurch. i am a mother of three now and my heart goes out to Kaiden. I can't even imagine what went on in the house that night. But thank goodness he was too small to remember so we hope.
Hi Annandale,

Welcome to WS! It is always nice to hear from someone from Annandale!! :)We appreciate your insight and thoughts on Janet. Would your brother be comfortable with posting or saying anything? I'm sure this is a hard time for him now.

Wanted to let you know that Raven was at the second memorial service at the church in Annandale. I know that because I was there and sat right behind him. It was very uncomfortable!

Please know that you are very welcome here and that anything you can contribute will be appreciated. Please send our best to your brother and family.

Take care,
Moxie

[Moxie]

I'm kind of dumb to the whole courts and lawyers, but don't they specialize? And wouldn't "pending murder invesigation" (thanks, Moxie) be different than embezzlement? I mean does Mark Garagos do real estate law too?--just trying to be humorous.Hi JF,

You are funny!

I don't think Mark Garagos does real estate, although if a TV camera were to cover it, I'm sure he might take an interest....:cool:

[SouthEastSleuth]

Also she was nice enough to let us know that the autopsy is not being released to the reporters or any body. Her family does know the results.You can request it yourself as it is public knowldege. But as I have requested it several weeks ago and have no response I am sure they will stall for a very long time. But I am just an average Joe.
Hey Annandale -

Welcome! It's always good to have new members/posters - which often leads to all sorts of new ideas, opinions, and insights!!

I'm very curious about your comments regarding the ME report. Several weeks ago I called over to the MEs office in Chapel Hill. They told me that the ME report (and autopsy report, which I learned are two different things) are never released as public documents in an on-going homicide investigation, only to LE. I don't know if this is the case in other states, but apparantly that is NC state law. My call was prompted by going to the state ME website, and seeing an online form where one can request reports, etc. But the caveat, at least with regards to Janet, is that the case is a homicide, etc.

I've since heard some legal thoughts on the whole ME report issue, and received some good feedback. Often LE will NOT release the report, especially prior to an arrest, as the report could contain info that only the perp would know (exact info about any wounds, placement, number, etc)..also could contain pertinent evidentiary info...also could go into TOD... all things which LE I would think would want to keep close to their vest, at least until an arrest is made... To that end, I'm not being argumentative with you in the least, as I don't know, and maybe you do, I would actually be surprised if even family members have been made privvy to the those reports, at least not until an arrest has been made. But, that is pure speculation on my part, for sure....

[Annandale1998]

Moxie,

was he there the whole time? because really I had more than a few people tell me he was not there. Maybe I was mistaken. I am sorry I really do not want to post anything wrong.

As far as my brother he is very quiet. He has not said much at all about the situation. Just that it made him sad and didn't understand how any one could go through with it. He says sincerely that she is the sweetest and purest person that he has come across. And it is genuine. How could any one close to her do that to her. I imagine it is hard for him to talk about it. He is very sensative.

[Annandale1998]

Again I do not want to post anything untrue. I was given a link weeks ago by a friend to request the autopsy report. From what I was told the family did get info from the autosy report. I am nat saying the whole report but info from the report. I do not know the whole legalities as you do. I am just a curious and concerned person. But i did request the autopsy report and I have not heard hide nor hair since then. I was told it could take several weeks and may not get a reply due the circumstance. This was from pass along when samiha and my friend emailed back to eachother.

[NCBanker]

We're assuming that Raven immediately retained counsel from a defense attorney who specializes in defending murderers. If I didn't kill my wife but wanted advice, I'd simply ask my general counsel. The press may have asked if he had an attorney and simply put 2 + 2 together that he retained counsel for THIS incident. Well that's well and good, but it skews things slightly. It leads us to think that Raven immediately went out and hired a defense attorney, which would then lead us to think he did it. Simply using an existing attorney for advice is another story all together. Whether you're innocent or not, you NEED an attorney present for questioning from LE. There have been too many times where an innocent man/woman has been questioned without counsel and been held in custody as a result. I don't have to elaborate. You guys know what I'm talking about.

SES is right that Julian Mack represented Raven on the embezzlement charges and met with the DA. He was also quoted in the news about the murder as being Raven's attorney. Remember, he either couldn't be reached for comment, or had no comment. I can't remember which, but Julian Mack is the ONLY attorney that has been referenced and has been tied to both the murder AND the embezzlement.

Maybe someone in the area can pull out the yellow pages and see if Julian Mack has a little ad about himself.

[NCBanker]

Be sure to check out my new thread, "For love or money" that was posted this morning. An article from a San Diego newspaper covering the murder was forwarded to me, so I took the liberty of posting it.

[Moxie]

Moxie,

was he there the whole time? because really I had more than a few people tell me he was not there. Maybe I was mistaken. I am sorry I really do not want to post anything wrong.

As far as my brother he is very quiet. He has not said much at all about the situation. Just that it made him sad and didn't understand how any one could go through with it. He says sincerely that she is the sweetest and purest person that he has come across. And it is genuine. How could any one close to her do that to her. I imagine it is hard for him to talk about it. He is very sensative.
Hi Annandale,

First of all, I am so sorry for your brother. That has to be hard. Janet was a very kind and genuine person. That is why this is so sad. That and the fact that Kaiden is without a mother. The hardest thing is that so far nothing has surfaced that takes the focus off of Raven. At the very least, Raven was a VERY BAD husband.

In regards to the memorial service in Annandale, yes, he was there the whole time. After the actual service ended, the families went into the back. Raven's family was in one room and Janet's was in the other. Raven only came into the room with Janet's family once, and it was for a brief moment, to show the video. After that he left. The two families did not interact. So, it is possible that if folks were in the back room with Janet's family after the service, they would not have seen him.

Hope this helps...

Take care,
Moxie

[Moxie]

Again I do not want to post anything untrue. I was given a link weeks ago by a friend to request the autopsy report. From what I was told the family did get info from the autosy report. I am nat saying the whole report but info from the report. I do not know the whole legalities as you do. I am just a curious and concerned person. But i did request the autopsy report and I have not heard hide nor hair since then. I was told it could take several weeks and may not get a reply due the circumstance. This was from pass along when samiha and my friend emailed back to eachother.

Annandale,

You are not posting anything untrue, just what you think. Please do not worry about that. We are all in this together to bring Justice for Janet. Everything that you contribute is valued.

Moxie

[Moxie]

We're assuming that Raven immediately retained counsel from a defense attorney who specializes in defending murderers. If I didn't kill my wife but wanted advice, I'd simply ask my general counsel. The press may have asked if he had an attorney and simply put 2 + 2 together that he retained counsel for THIS incident. Well that's well and good, but it skews things slightly. It leads us to think that Raven immediately went out and hired a defense attorney, which would then lead us to think he did it. Simply using an existing attorney for advice is another story all together. Whether you're innocent or not, you NEED an attorney present for questioning from LE. There have been too many times where an innocent man/woman has been questioned without counsel and been held in custody as a result. I don't have to elaborate. You guys know what I'm talking about.

SES is right that Julian Mack represented Raven on the embezzlement charges and met with the DA. He was also quoted in the news about the murder as being Raven's attorney. Remember, he either couldn't be reached for comment, or had no comment. I can't remember which, but Julian Mack is the ONLY attorney that has been referenced and has been tied to both the murder AND the embezzlement.
Hi - it is possible that after Janet was murdered, Raven retained Julian Mack and stopped using his first attorney. Either way, it doesn't matter, as Julian Mack is his attorney of record now. If anyone has time and can go through the early stories, I believe his attorney situation was mentioned early on that he did have two.

[SouthEastSleuth]

Annandale,

You are not posting anything untrue, just what you think. Please do not worry about that. We are all in this together to bring Justice for Janet. Everything that you contribute is valued.

Moxie

Yes Annandale - and again, I was not meaning to "attack" your thoughts, etc. I was just so frustrated several weeks ago about no news at all, that I spent a lot (too much! lol) time on the ME report, etc, that ended up with me calling them, etc.

All of that said, trust me, I for one, hope they DO send you that report!!!!! It could possibly answer any number of questions!!!!! And surely if the family doesn't know about the report, I have no doubt they would LIKE to know about it, at least in some regards...

And again, sorry if it sounded like I was just posting to contradict you, as that was truly not the case. The frustrations just continue to build I guess - as we all wait and hope for the same thing - justice, and ,an arrest!!

[Chica]

Here is a link with a business profile of Julian Mack.
http://yellowpages.superpages.com/profile~SRC_portals~T_Durham~S_NC~PP_N~L_Durham+NC ~CID_561226~LID_ryRMq2WXU%2BTsrgiQ%2BiXzWQ%3D%3D.h tm

[ewwwinteresting]

Again I do not want to post anything untrue. I was given a link weeks ago by a friend to request the autopsy report. From what I was told the family did get info from the autosy report. I am nat saying the whole report but info from the report. I do not know the whole legalities as you do. I am just a curious and concerned person. But i did request the autopsy report and I have not heard hide nor hair since then. I was told it could take several weeks and may not get a reply due the circumstance. This was from pass along when samiha and my friend emailed back to eachother.
Welcome Annandale and thanks for posting. Here is what I think. The family has a copy of the death certificate, not the autopsy report, which is very different. Anybody can order a copy of the death certificate as you say and this is something that would be released even if it is a homicide.

[ewwwinteresting]

Hi Annandale,

First of all, I am so sorry for your brother. That has to be hard. Janet was a very kind and genuine person. That is why this is so sad. That and the fact that Kaiden is without a mother. The hardest thing is that so far nothing has surfaced that takes the focus off of Raven. At the very least, Raven was a VERY BAD husband.

In regards to the memorial service in Annandale, yes, he was there the whole time. After the actual service ended, the families went into the back. Raven's family was in one room and Janet's was in the other. Raven only came into the room with Janet's family once, and it was for a brief moment, to show the video. After that he left. The two families did not interact. So, it is possible that if folks were in the back room with Janet's family after the service, they would not have seen him.

H