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View Full Version : IA IA - Eugene Martin, 14, Des Moines, 12 Aug 1984 - Missing Paperboy


miles_draken
06-26-2005, 02:20 PM
I started the post on Johnny Gosch, and there is information a plenty out there about this awful case. Another paper boy, that some believe were taken by the same people who took Johnny, is Eugene Martin. It is difficult to find information on this case. To my knowledge no info or resolution has happened in this case. According to Noreen Gosch, her son Johnny visited her in 1997 and told her the same people who took him had taken Eugene as well. If anyone has any info on the Eugene Martin case please share. This is a seldom talked about case it seems.

Richard
06-26-2005, 11:38 PM
EUGENE MARTIN Des Moines, IA missing since 12 Aug 1984
A very closely matching crime to the Johnny Gosch kidnapping is that if the abduction of Eugene Martin, also a newsboy, also of Des Moines, Iowa. Eugene was on his paper route early in the morning of 12 August 1984. He was seen talking to a white male who was "about the age of his father". There was nothing suspicious about it, but in a matter of twenty minutes, Eugene disappeared and has not been seen since.
Usually, Gene delivered the papers with his older stepbrother, but on this occasion, he was alone.
Eugene got up that morning at 4:30 and left the house at 5:00. Between 5:45 and 6:05, he was seen folding papers and talking to a man on teh corner only a few blocks from his house. Between 6:10 and 6:15, the bag was on the ground with 10 folded papers in it and Eugene was gone. When calls came in to the paper manager that people were missing their morning newspapers, the manager went out, found the bag and delivered the papers. He did not start looking for Eugene again until 8:40AM. Classic case of someone finding something obviously wrong, but not thinking it was important enough to mention.
Some investigators feel that the two cases (Gosch and Martin) are connected, but there is no physical evidence to link the two.

------------------
EUGENE MARTIN
Non-Family Abduction
DOB: Aug 17, 1970
Missing: Aug 12, 1984
Age at time missing: 14
Age Now: 34
Sex: Male
Race: White
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Brown
Height: 5'0" (152 cm)
Weight: 110 lbs (50 kg)
Missing From: DES MOINES, IA, United States

Eugene was last seen between 5:30-6 a.m. as he was delivering newspapers. A paper bag was found outside of Des Moines with papers still inside. He has a scar on his right knee and has had a broken right wrist.

ANYONE HAVING INFORMATION SHOULD CONTACT
National Center for Missing & Exploited Children
1-800-843-5678 (1-800-THE-LOST) or
Des Moines Police Department (Iowa) - Missing Persons Unit - 1-515-283-4864 Or Your Local FBI

Link
http://www.missingkids.com/missingk...earchLang=en_US (http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewPoster&caseNum=601815&orgPrefix=NCMC&searchLang=en_US)

mysteriew
06-27-2005, 12:47 AM
From what I remember of the Gosch case the two cases have one big thing in common. Neither have anything to go on. To me that says a lot. Because if it worked the first time, it only goes to reason that the perp would try to do it the same way the second time.

2sisters
06-27-2005, 10:54 AM
Something also seems similar about Marc James Warren Allen. Does anyone know anything about his case?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/allen_marc.html

emma l
06-28-2005, 11:10 AM
I don't know anything new I'm afraid but thats really good sleuthing. Thats 3 boys, of similar age AND appearance dissapearing from the same place in the space of 3 and a half years. V v peculiar indeed. Does anyone else think so? I wonder why marc hasnt as much publicity?I'm not swayed by the Gosch conspiracy theory 'm afraid, but something is/was going on. Maybe theres a much more obvious connection between these 3 cases and its just been missed.Any ideas where to start anyone?

They look so similar they could be brothers...........

All his google matches http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&biw=1003&q=Marc+James+Warren+Allen+missing&meta=

Here are all 3 Vital Statistics -



Missing since 5th September 1982

Johnny Gosch
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/160dmia.html
Date Of Birth: November 12, 1969
Age at Time of Disappearance: 12 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'7; 140 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Light brown, short hair; blue eyes.
Marks, Scars: Gosch has facial freckles. He has a horseshoe-shaped scar on his tongue and a birthmark on his left cheek.
Clothing: A white sweatshirt with Kim's Academy imprinted on the back, warm-up pants and blue rubber thong sandals.
Dentals: There is a gap between his front teeth.
Nickname: Johnny

Circumstances of Disappearance
Gosch disappeared while conducting his newspaper route in West Des Moines, Iowa on September 5, 1982. He was tailed by his dachshund, Gretchen. Gosch was seen speaking to a male suspect while working his paper route on 42nd Street and Marcourt Lane. Gretchen returned home without her master. Because of the Gosch case, Iowa passed a law requiring immediate investigations of missing children.


Then 25 months later………………

Missing Since 12 October 1984
Eugene Martin
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/8dmia.html
Date Of Birth: August 17, 1970
Age at Time of Disappearance: 13 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Diappearance: 5'0" (152 cm); 110 lbs (50 kg) Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Brown hair; brown eyes.
Marks, Scars: Scar on his right knee and past fractured wrist
Clothing: Jeans and a gray and white-striped midriff t-shirt with red sleeves.

Circumstances of Disappearance
Martin was last seen between 5:30 AM - 6:00 AM delivering newspapers in Des Moines, IA on October 12, 1984. His newspaper sack was found outside of Des Moines later that day with papers still inside, indicating that Martin never finished his route. He has never been seen again.


Then 18 months later…….

Missing Since March 29 1986
Marc James-Warren Allen
http://doenetwork.us/cases/34dmia.html
Date Of Birth: May 13, 1972
Age at Time of Disappearance: 13 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 4'11; 90 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Light brown hair; blue eyes.
Marks, Scars: Small scar on the top of his head.
Clothing: A light blue t-shirt, blue jean shorts, white socks and gray tennis shoes with Velcro tabs.

Circumstances of Disappearance
Allen was last seen leaving his family's home in Des Moines, Iowa on March 29, 1986 to visit a friend's house up the street, but he never arrived.


To put in into perspective I live in a town near London, England. It has a reasonable crime rate. In the whole history of my town there has been 1 unsolved murder and NO missing people. 3 boys in and a half years is an awful awful lot. They look so similar as well...........

Usher737
06-28-2005, 02:32 PM
I also strongly feel that these cases are related. Funny how both John and Eugene were seen speaking to an adult male.
I wonder if a sketch was made of this person.

I wonder if any known sex offenders lived in this area at the time of these dissapearances.

Moggie
06-28-2005, 04:14 PM
I started the post on Johnny Gosch, and there is information a plenty out there about this awful case. Another paper boy, that some believe were taken by the same people who took Johnny, is Eugene Martin. It is difficult to find information on this case. To my knowledge no info or resolution has happened in this case. According to Noreen Gosch, her son Johnny visited her in 1997 and told her the same people who took him had taken Eugene as well. If anyone has any info on the Eugene Martin case please share. This is a seldom talked about case it seems.
I'm a little confused. Has John David Gosch been found? This is the first time I have heard about this case so I'm not up to speed at all. Nice sluthing!:)

Usher737
06-28-2005, 04:21 PM
John has never been found. His mother claims he came to visit her once as an adult at 3 am. He lives in hiding from the pedophile ring he escaped from.

Moggie
06-28-2005, 05:36 PM
[QUOTE=Usher737]John has never been found. His mother claims he came to visit her once as an adult at 3 am. He lives in hiding from the pedophile ring he escaped from.[/QUOTE

I appreciated your clearing that up for me, I need to go back and educate myself on these case's.

Its interesting that John claims, he met Eugene while he was being held, I wonder if he or his mom informed the LE. I would like to know their response.:waitasec:

2sisters
06-28-2005, 06:41 PM
Moggie, if it helps you understand it any there is another thread on Johnny Gosch further down on the cold cases, just ignore me though if you have seen it. It is a long and somewhat confusing story. Hope this helps.
Does anyone know of any unsolved childrens/early teens homicides in the area around that time frame that could be linked?

miles_draken
06-28-2005, 08:28 PM
Having so little info on the Eugene Martin case it is my opinion he is infact deceased, but if Johnny Gosch is indeed alive, as his mother says, then he may be able to shed some light for everyone. If he is indeed alive I hope he can come forward at some point and reveal all that has happened to him in his tragic life. I would be curious to know if the Martins have continued pursuing their missing son, I've never heard so much as a quote from them. That doesn't mean they haven't been looking, I just haven't heard anything.

Richard
06-28-2005, 10:39 PM
While there may be a connection between all three missing boys: Gosch, Martin, and Allen, it is the first two that were considered to be connected by Law Enforcement from the very start of the Martin case.

Detective James Rowley, of Des Moines was the primary investigator in the Eugene Martin disappearance (12 August 1984), and he compared notes from day one with Detective Lyle McKinney who was primary on the Johnny Gosch case. The two cases were very close in character.

Eugene "Gene" Martin was 13 years old and had a job delivering newspapers. His disappearance took place very early on a Sunday morning just as he was starting his route. Gene got up at 4:30AM and left his house at 5. Between 5:45 and 6:05, he was seen folding papers and talking to a man on the corner where his bundle of papers had been delivered. Between 6:10 and 6:15, his bag was on the ground with ten folded papers in it and Eugene Martin was gone.

Calls started coming in to the newspaper office from customers who had not received their papers, and the paper manager went out and found the bag, looked for the boy, delivered the papers himself, and did not start looking for Gene again until 8:40. Police were called shortly after that.

Gene's father believed that the person who abducted his son might have been watching him for some time and saw the opportunity to do something that morning. Usually, Gene's older stepbrother delivered the papers with him, except that he had attended a party the evening before, and did not get up to help Gene that Sunday morning.

Eugene was last seen wearing blue jeans, a gray and white midriff shirt with red sleeves, and blue tennis shoes with white diagonal stripes.

emma l
06-29-2005, 05:04 AM
I did a quick scout around in the last 35 years there are only 9 currently missing male children in the whole of Iowa according to www.missingkids.com - the national missing children website. They are-
Johnny Gosch
Eugene Martin
Tyler Joseph Vermace. "Endangered runaway" Missing since Jan 31 2005
Zachary Michael Burns. "Endangered Runaway". Missing since May 16th 2005
Shane A CRIPPE, "Missing". Missing since July 14th 2004
Tyler Andrew Holmes. "Endangered Runaway". Missing from Des Moines. Missing since 18th July 2004

I don't think any of the other 4 are linked............
There are 3 missing female children in the last 35 years from Iowa according to missingkids.com: 2 are in the right, vague timeframe:

KIMBERLY DOSS
Case Type: Endangered Missing
DOB: Feb 12, 1966 Sex: Female
Missing Date: Sep 1, 1982 Race: White
Age Now: 39 Height: 5'2" (157 cm)
Missing City: DAVENPORT Weight: 120 lbs (54 kg)
Missing State : IA Hair Color: Brown
Missing Country: United States Eye Color: Brown

COLLEEN VANITA SIMPSON
Case Type: Non Family Abduction
DOB: Dec 5, 1960 Sex: Female
Missing Date: Oct 5, 1975 Race: White
Age Now: 44 Height: 5'7" (170 cm)
Missing City: BEDFORD Weight: 90 lbs (41 kg)
Missing State : IA Hair Color: Black
Missing Country: United States Eye Color: Hazel

and 1 other endangered runaway.

Marc Allen is NOT listed on missing kids.com. However he is listed on Iowas missing persons website.http://www.dps.state.ia.us/dci/mpic/allenm.htm
VERY peculiar.

Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin are listed as "Involuntary" missing on Iowas site-A person of any age who is missing under circumstances indicating that the disappearance was not voluntary, i.e., abduction or kidnapping.

Whilst Marc Allen is listed as "Juvenile" missing-A juvenile who is missing and declared unemancipated as defined by the laws of his/her state of residence and does not meet any of the entry criteria for Disability, Endangered, Involuntary, Familial Kidnap, Abduction, Catastrophe or Lost or Wandered Away

Which is odd. Maybe its because there were no suspects or witnesses for this case?

There are 6 unidentified bodies listed on the Iowa site. 5 men, all adult and 1 black female child. None of which could possibly be any of the boys.
http://www.dps.state.ia.us/dci/ud/index.htm


In the period Jan 1981- Jan 1991 there are 90 listed missing children for the whole of America. I had a quick look through but I may have missed something else...........However, this child went missing on his paper round also and is listed as non-family abduction.

http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=600332&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

BRIAN R. BLEYL
Case Type: Non Family Abduction
DOB: Dec 2, 1968 Sex: Male
Missing Date: Feb 28, 1981 Race: White
Age Now: 36 Height: 4'11" (150 cm)
Missing City: PHOENIX Weight: 100 lbs (45 kg)
Missing State : AZ Hair Color: Brown
Missing Country: United States Eye Color: Brown

There are 1 and a half pages of registered sex offenders listed in Iowa http://www.iowasexoffender.com/searchENG.php?s=0&e=15&countysearch=48&consearch=ALL&simple=submit

There are no linked unsolved homicides in iowa that I could find.

I don't know my US gerography I'm afraid so I've no- idea how close he was to Iowa. Can anyone help me out with that?? 3 missing boys of 90 in that 10 year period and 3 are from Iowa over a 3 year period. They HAVE to be linked.

miles_draken
06-29-2005, 09:44 AM
My personal opinion is that Martin and Gosch were abducted by atleast the same person. Noreen Gosch has said the same 'syndicate', which may infact be true. Many people in the Gosch thread blasted the 'conspiracy theory' aspect, but just because it is a wild accusation doesn't mean it isn't true. I think these boys were taken by the same people, and may or may not have known each other in captivity. If Johnny is alive he may know the fate of other boys from around the country. I just wonder what happened to Eugene.

emma l
06-29-2005, 09:52 AM
I have wondered and wondered about the Noreen Gosch theory forever. www.johnnygosch.com If she is making it up - why?? But it seems so far fetched. I wish she would take a lie detector test...........I wonder how Euegen Martins family feel about all this? They've never really said anything publicily I wonder if they believe her?

I found this article dated May 2005 suggesting that Jacob Wetterling may also have been taken by the same people.
Thursday, May 26, 2005

http://fpiarticle.blogspot.com/2005/05/new-leads-in-johnny-gosch-case.html

New Leads In The Johnny Gosch Case
KWWL
5/25/2005

A cold case is heating up. Iowa paperboy Johnny Gosch vanished without a trace in 1982. But, now, after KWWL's story last month on Johnny's disappearance, there is new information on the case.

A private investigator working Johnny's disappearance believe his kidnapping was part of a government conspiracy. The investigator shared new evidence with KWWL and it could be the break needed to solve this case. That evidence includes a recorded phone call that has never been heard publicly, until now.

During the early morning of Septmeber 5, 1982, Johnny Gosch was kidnapped from a West Des Moines neighborhood while delivering newspapers. It was silent, quick and professional. "This man has told us that at the end of their investigation that there were 834 kids involved that were kidnapped," says James Rothstein. He's talking about a former CIA agent who must remain anonymous.................snip

snip..................Rothstein is talking about individuals who would spend as much as $10,000 to have sex with young boys and girls. And this new evidence points to the involvement of U.S. government officials. "They were using kids to compromise people. And what better way to compromise somebody than get a young boy with a politician or some powerful person that may be in the military or whatever and then you can compromise them and get what ever you want."

Last month, people on the internet and investigators like Rothstein began to believe a man who passed himself off as a White House reporter and known male prostitute Jeff Gannon could be Johnny Gosch. And while Gannon's true idenity still can't be confirmed, Rothstein says the more clues he uncovers, the possibility Gannon may be Gosch increases, "When you look into the whole abduction of Johnny, what happened, the cover-up that took place, the way the kidnapping was done, this was a professional job and it fits the profile that I have seen over the years as a professional investigator."..........snip

................snip. And Rothstein's CIA informant says this: "We were specifically ordered to clear our name. This would make the American agency look pretty s****y, like we're all a bunch of f***ing child molesters."

We requested information from the CIA on three kidnappings, Rothstein and his CIA informant believes to be connected. The first, Johnny Gosch, the second, Eugene Martin, kidnapped on August 12th, 1984 while delivering newspapers in Des Moines.

And, Jacob Wetterling, who was kidnapped from his Minnesota neighborhood on October 22, 1989. The CIA responded to our request with this letter, denying the agency investigated any of the kidnapping cases. But, Rothstein's source says, it happened often and for big bucks, "You could order one of these kids, it was $2,500 to $3,000 up front then you had the balance of another $3,000 to $3,500 or $4,000 upon completion. In some cases, you know depending on the circumstances you can probably get them at the bargain basement price of $1,500, but most I think that we ever saw was for the bondage and the freaky s**t and that was an even $10,000 and people...these people would hand that money out like it was candy."

That's what it cost to hire a kidnapper to steal a child like Johnny off the street. And with new details like this coming to light, catching Johnny's kidnappers might actually happen. "Any police agency that would get involved in this case to this date can solve that case. The case is more solvable now, than it has even been. And that case should have been solved hours after it happened. The witnesses are out there. You yourself have found some," Rothstein says.

Those witnesses include a Black Hawk County woman who wishes to remain anonymous. She sent Rothstein this packet of information. "Johnny Gosch is mentioned in it involving something that was going on years ago in the Waterloo, Iowa area," Rothstein says.

And while Rothstein hasn't determined the significance of the possible Waterloo connection, he says it's just as important as the phone conversation he had with a CIA agent. "That's solid information with names. That's where you start investigating and that should have been done years ago," he says.

And because it wasn't, Rothstein continues to make phone calls, and work leads, hoping his next big break is the one that solves the mystery behind the disapperance of Johnny Gosch.

For the past month, Rothstein has been tracking the activities of two suspects he believes could be responsible for kidnapping Johnny Gosch. We couldn't name them in our report because it hurt the investigation. We agreed to keep their identities secret so we could tell you this story.
posted by GREG ERICSON at 10:48 AM

mysteriew
06-29-2005, 10:41 AM
There is a picture of Jeff Gannon here:

http://www.jeffgannon.com/

And according to this site, Jeffe Gannon has also been known as Geoff Gannon and his real name appears to be James Dale Guckert.

http://www.dkosopedia.com/index.php/Jeff_Gannon

laini
11-12-2005, 04:57 AM
www.doenetwork.us/cases/299umtx.html (http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/299umtx.html)


I have wondered if this could be Eugene Martin. The dates work out and the pictures look similar. However, the unidentified may be mixed race and Eugene was not as far as I know. What do you think?

2sisters
11-12-2005, 02:17 PM
He looks similar. Might be worth checking into. As far as the race thing, sometimes it is just a guess when looking at some remails they aren't always dead on about those things.

beakiebean
11-14-2005, 02:14 PM
Martin looks like he has the kind of complexion where he may tan deeply-would it be possible for a dark tan to give them the impression that a victim is biracial?

Martin and Gosch both vanished when I was a little kid living in Des Moines-their abductions have haunted me for years. I wish we could have some resolution for their families.

Becca

Mr. E
11-14-2005, 03:31 PM
Does anyone know why Noreen and John Gosch, Sr. divorced? I have a friend who knew the family at the time of the abduction, and she has told me some interesting things about the family. I have no reason to doubt what she said, but I have also read Noreen's book Why Johnny Can't Come Home. The allegations in that book were outlandish, but sometimes the unbelievable is what ends up as being truth. So now I don't know what to believe.

As far as IDing Johnny Gosch as Jeff Gannon, weren't there some distinguishing marks that could do it? I believe Johnny had a strawberry-shaped birthmark on his chest, and a horseshoe-shaped scar on his tongue, and a mole on his face near his eye. I see the mole (more like a discoloration) on Johnny's picture, but not on Jeff's.

miles_draken
11-14-2005, 11:20 PM
What sort of things about the Gosch family were you told? There is some speculation that the father was involved in his disappearance.

Mr. E
11-15-2005, 08:57 AM
She told me they were weird, for one. Not eccentric weird, but creepy weird. She didn't have children at the time but when she knew me she had two boys, and she said if she still lived in the area she wouldn't allow John Gosch, Sr. to have contact with her sons. My friend grew up in an abusive household and was married for a while to an abusive man -- she says she is highly attuned to abusers/sex offenders, can "feel" when a situation is potentially bad. I don't know.

She said that many people who knew the Gosches, including my friend, believed that "Johnny never made it out of that town alive." Again, this is just what my friend said, not any first hand knowledge I have.

In the book Why Johnny Can't Come Home, Noreen claims that shortly before Johnny disappeared John, Sr. took him to visit a military base called Offutt (sp?). I don't have the book with me at the moment as I am at work, but she thinks this is when John, Sr. began arranging to have Johnny abducted into this government-type sex ring. Noreen claims it was all arranged by John, Sr.

One odd thing about the mention of Offutt. Johnny's case isn't the only one where that place is mentioned. I believe there have been other missing cases where that military base is mentioned somehow.

Like I said, I don't know what to believe. Noreen's ideas sound crazy and unbelievable, but there were a lot of sightings of Johnny Gosch in the years following his abduction. Maybe the dad did have something to do with it, and that's why they divorced. Or maybe both parents had something to do with it, and Noreen went over the edge afterward.

laini
11-15-2005, 09:50 AM
beakiebean, I also grew up in Des MOines and have always been haunted by these cases like you. (small world:) ). As awful as it sounds, I often think, when I am running errands around town, that Johnny and Eugene are probably both burried in some sex offender's yard in Des Moines area. I have on occasion seen Noreen around town ( she is easy to recognize by appearance) and feel so sad for her. I hope someday both families have an answer.

miles_draken
11-15-2005, 11:59 AM
Where is John Sr. today? Is he still in Des Moines area? Is he at all involved in the search for his son?

lilsister
06-28-2006, 05:05 PM
Just wanted to bump this thread as it is really quite interesting...

bykerladi
06-28-2006, 05:42 PM
Was a DNA test ever done on Jeff Gannon? And where is he now?

lilsister
06-28-2006, 10:49 PM
Was a DNA test ever done on Jeff Gannon? And where is he now?
I don't have any additional info on Jeff Gannon...I'll keep searching. I know this is not part of the thread, Bykerladi, I sent you a PM re: the UID from Mendocino, CA, the brother and sister case.

inquiringmindz
09-01-2006, 01:07 PM
OMG, I just about fainted when I watched the news. They could have a small break in the Johnny Gosch case. Johnny's mom received pictures in the mail of what appears to be her son bound and gagged. IMHO, it does look like him. The news stated he was wearing sweat pants when taken and he does have these on in the pic.

She also received another pic of two other boys tied up in the same fashion and is asking for help in trying to identify the other boys in the photo.

See http://www.johnnygosch.com/ for photos and details.

It really makes me wonder about the pedophile ring...


Even though these two boys were abducted 2 and 4 years after Johnny, I wonder if they could be linked to the photograph. I'm sure Johnny would have aged in 4 years but I wonder how much under undesirable circumstances?

laini
09-01-2006, 01:23 PM
OMG, I just about fainted when I watched the news. They could have a small break in the Johnny Gosch case. Johnny's mom received pictures in the mail of what appears to be her son bound and gagged. IMHO, it does look like him. The news stated he was wearing sweat pants when taken and he does have these on in the pic.

She also received another pic of two other boys tied up in the same fashion and is asking for help in trying to identify the other boys in the photo.

See http://www.johnnygosch.com/ for photos and details.

It really makes me wonder about the pedophile ring...


Even though these two boys were abducted 2 and 4 years after Johnny, I wonder if they could be linked to the photograph. I'm sure Johnny would have aged in 4 years but I wonder how much under undesirable circumstances?


I know! I about had a heart attack last night when they had this on the news, too! I am going to start a new thread (if noone else has), becasue even if one is Johnny or Eugene, there were three boys in on e photo so could be anyone. A new thread may get more people to see it, also. I wonder, though, if it was a prank (a horribel one).

Pandora
08-12-2009, 10:43 AM
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20090812/NEWS03/908120351/1001/NEWS

Balthazar
08-12-2009, 06:10 PM
She told me they were weird, for one. Not eccentric weird, but creepy weird. She didn't have children at the time but when she knew me she had two boys, and she said if she still lived in the area she wouldn't allow John Gosch, Sr. to have contact with her sons. My friend grew up in an abusive household and was married for a while to an abusive man -- she says she is highly attuned to abusers/sex offenders, can "feel" when a situation is potentially bad. I don't know.

She said that many people who knew the Gosches, including my friend, believed that "Johnny never made it out of that town alive." Again, this is just what my friend said, not any first hand knowledge I have.

In the book Why Johnny Can't Come Home, Noreen claims that shortly before Johnny disappeared John, Sr. took him to visit a military base called Offutt (sp?). I don't have the book with me at the moment as I am at work, but she thinks this is when John, Sr. began arranging to have Johnny abducted into this government-type sex ring. Noreen claims it was all arranged by John, Sr.

One odd thing about the mention of Offutt. Johnny's case isn't the only one where that place is mentioned. I believe there have been other missing cases where that military base is mentioned somehow.

Like I said, I don't know what to believe. Noreen's ideas sound crazy and unbelievable, but there were a lot of sightings of Johnny Gosch in the years following his abduction. Maybe the dad did have something to do with it, and that's why they divorced. Or maybe both parents had something to do with it, and Noreen went over the edge afterward.

As info, this is Offutt Airforce Base is the Strategic Air Command (SAC) base for the entire US due to its central position in the United States. This is a very famous military base in Nebraska - it has been depicted in many movies and TV shows and as such would be of particular interest to civilians who are interested in the US Air Force. Watching flight training from the ground would be interesting for civillians - athough I'm not sure that civilians are allowed on base, it is possible to park outside the base and watch. There may have even been an airshow such as The Blue Angels visiting. I seriously doubt the visit to the base had anything to do with Johnny's abduction.

loganone
08-15-2009, 11:32 AM
It maps missing kids in these areas over a period of time. Not saying any are related, but it does look intresting that a child went missing every 2 years.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie=UTF8&msa=0&msid=118123129470712182220.000440c9ce904f6017530&t=h&z=5

Hope4Lost
08-15-2009, 11:58 AM
It's quite a shame that many areas around military bases are killing grounds. It seems to be a common theme. And I'm a military supporter...I guess they don't have an entry test to cull serial killers. :(

Pandora
08-16-2009, 08:42 AM
As info, this is Offutt Airforce Base is the Strategic Air Command (SAC) base for the entire US due to its central position in the United States. This is a very famous military base in Nebraska - it has been depicted in many movies and TV shows and as such would be of particular interest to civilians who are interested in the US Air Force. Watching flight training from the ground would be interesting for civillians - athough I'm not sure that civilians are allowed on base, it is possible to park outside the base and watch. There may have even been an airshow such as The Blue Angels visiting. I seriously doubt the visit to the base had anything to do with Johnny's abduction.

The internet burped and I just lost a long post. :( To summarize:
One of my cousins was stationed at Offut. He took my dad on a tour of the base and they were permitted into some areas that I never would have imagined a civilian could go. (Two years ago, I think?) While my dad is former Navy, it's been a long time and he never had clearances like my cousin's. Maybe it depends on the clearances of the person you're with, IDK. Dad did have to surrender all of his ID and his camera before going on base.

Satch
07-19-2010, 07:12 AM
I need clarification help here,

There is a You Tube video with Noreen Gosch who says a few weeks before her son Johnny was kidnapped, she got a tip that there was going to be a second kidnapping in August 1984 from a private investigator. (Knowing her son was going to be kidnapped before the second kidnapping. Something does not seem to make sense.) Yet, other sources say that she knew of this information a few weeks before Eugene's kidnapping, so what appears to be correct?

Satch

mnegri1973
07-26-2010, 01:16 AM
I need clarification help here,

There is a You Tube video with Noreen Gosch who says a few weeks before her son Johnny was kidnapped, she got a tip that there was going to be a second kidnapping in August 1984 from a private investigator. (Knowing her son was going to be kidnapped before the second kidnapping. Something does not seem to make sense.) Yet, other sources say that she knew of this information a few weeks before Eugene's kidnapping, so what appears to be correct?

Satch

From the way I understand it, Noreen supposedly received info that another boy was going to be kidnapped just prior to Eugene being taken. However, this is just my own opinion, I would take whatever Noreen says with a grain of salt. Because in my way of thinking, if she knew that another boy was going to be taken, and if I recall it even future, it was suppose to be another paper boy, why did she not report it to the DMPD. If this is true then she knew about the crime prior to it being committed and did not report what she knew, can't she be charged with something??

On a more personal note, I grew up in a small town about 30 mins outside of Des Moines. One of my good friends growing up was Eugene's cousin. It was very rough on the family and I know that they did everything within their power to search for their son, grandson, brother, nephew, cousin, and friend. I hope that someday Eugene's family will find out what happened to him.

M ~

Mr. E
07-26-2010, 10:18 AM
mnegri1973, Noreen DID go to the police. From her book, p. 63, she states that after she received the information from Sam Soda about the second kidnapping, "I did go to the Des Moines Police Dept., asking if I could play the tape of the meeting with Mr. Soda for them. The person at the desk would not allow me to talk to a Detective, he kept saying if they "felt my information was of importance they would call me". Repeatedly, I told them that I had a tape recording and in a couple of months there would be another paperboy kidnapped. They treated me as though I had lost my mind and they didn't want to be bothered with me." (All grammatical errors are Noreen's, not mine.)

milopedes
07-26-2010, 02:04 PM
Until today, I've never read anything about any of these abductions. After reading the posts in this thread, I have to say this all sounds a bit bizarre to me.

Personally, I don't see why these cases might not be related to one another given the cirumstances, time frames, location, etc. I can more readily believe that there is a single predator, or maybe a pair of predators, than I can buy into a government conspiracy. Of course, in all fairness I know little about these cases and have not read the book written by Noreen (I think I got her name correct?).

Regarding the last few posts, given the outlandishness of her claims I can see why the DMPD would disregard anything she had to say. That does not make it right, but she wouldn't be the first parent of a missing child to lose a bit of sanity or start making bizarre claims.

milopedes
07-26-2010, 02:05 PM
OMG, I just about fainted when I watched the news. They could have a small break in the Johnny Gosch case. Johnny's mom received pictures in the mail of what appears to be her son bound and gagged. IMHO, it does look like him. The news stated he was wearing sweat pants when taken and he does have these on in the pic.

She also received another pic of two other boys tied up in the same fashion and is asking for help in trying to identify the other boys in the photo.

See http://www.johnnygosch.com/ for photos and details.

It really makes me wonder about the pedophile ring...


Even though these two boys were abducted 2 and 4 years after Johnny, I wonder if they could be linked to the photograph. I'm sure Johnny would have aged in 4 years but I wonder how much under undesirable circumstances?

What, if anything, ever resulted from this?

Mr. E
07-26-2010, 02:58 PM
What, if anything, ever resulted from this?

Same old, same old. Some people think it's him, and I'm sure some think it is not. Who knows what's happening investigation-wise. I have read that all of the photos have been given to the authorities (FBI? Although that seems unlikely given Noreen's feelings for them...) and have (or have not, depending on where you look) been verified.

Milopedes, crazy or not, LE should look into Noreen's claims; they should have done it then, and they should do it now. There was a movie (based on the book by Beth Gutcheon, but I can't remember the title) about a boy named Alex Selky who disappeared while walking to the school bus. All kinds of things happened with the investigation, and in the end people thought that the homosexual house cleaner had done away with the boy. The mother was not so sure, and she told the detective in charge, and he investigated every lead. One crazy woman kept calling him and asking him to come get the boy, that Jesus told her it was the boy, etc. She was nuts, there was no doubt about it. But he investigated...he drove all the way out to where the woman was. And there was the boy. She was a nutburger, but she recognized the missing boy and saved him by calling the police.

I'm not sure that Noreen is still playing with a full deck -- I know I wouldn't be after what she's been through -- but I don't think her information (pictures, leads, whatever) should be discounted because of it.

Mandy113
07-26-2010, 04:46 PM
Just came across this thread for Eugene. I've been thinking so much about these boys lately. Eugene's case received so little publicity compared to Johnny's and I could never understand why. Even though Des Moines is a large city (for the midwest), these kind of things just didn't typically happen in Iowa. I feel especially sad for his family. Recently, I read Eugene's step-mother had passed away and his father is in a nursing home with Alzheimer's Disease. All these years and still no idea what happened to him. Heartbreaking.

milopedes
07-26-2010, 04:53 PM
Same old, same old. Some people think it's him, and I'm sure some think it is not. Who knows what's happening investigation-wise. I have read that all of the photos have been given to the authorities (FBI? Although that seems unlikely given Noreen's feelings for them...) and have (or have not, depending on where you look) been verified.

Milopedes, crazy or not, LE should look into Noreen's claims; they should have done it then, and they should do it now.

I'm not sure that Noreen is still playing with a full deck -- I know I wouldn't be after what she's been through -- but I don't think her information (pictures, leads, whatever) should be discounted because of it.

I agree that LE should examine the validity of her claims. At the very least, they could simply discredit her in some way. But as you point out, it could also lead them in a positive direction toward solving the crime(s).

I'm sure something like that takes a toll. I cannot fathom losing one of my children. Death is one thing, but abduction and all the uncertainties surrounding it very likely have a powerful effect upon one's mental well-being. I pray it is something I never have to endure, and wish that no one else did.

I checked out her site, briefly, and looked at some of the photos. Again, I haven't read too much. It was my impression that she "allegedly" had contact with her son, who is an adult now and in hiding? Did he escape? Was he released? Is there any proof she ever had contact?

The photos in the mail is creepy. Unless she is conjuring up this "evidence", at the very least someone is messing with her and it should be looked into.

milopedes
07-26-2010, 04:56 PM
Just came across this thread for Eugene. I've been thinking so much about these boys lately. Eugene's case received so little publicity compared to Johnny's and I could never understand why. Even though Des Moines is a large city (for the midwest), these kind of things just didn't typically happen in Iowa. I feel especially sad for his family. Recently, I read Eugene's step-mother had passed away and his father is in a nursing home with Alzheimer's Disease. All these years and still no idea what happened to him. Heartbreaking.

It is heartbreaking. My guess is that one case had more publicity because it occurred first, had a very active (energetic) parent, and it involved some odd follow-up occurrences (i.e., mailed photos, controversial allegations, etc.).

Not fair . . . but a good conspiracy / mystery gains more traction. Plus, Noreen has a website and at least 1 book, right?

mnegri1973
07-27-2010, 01:02 AM
mnegri1973, Noreen DID go to the police. From her book, p. 63, she states that after she received the information from Sam Soda about the second kidnapping, "I did go to the Des Moines Police Dept., asking if I could play the tape of the meeting with Mr. Soda for them. The person at the desk would not allow me to talk to a Detective, he kept saying if they "felt my information was of importance they would call me". Repeatedly, I told them that I had a tape recording and in a couple of months there would be another paperboy kidnapped. They treated me as though I had lost my mind and they didn't want to be bothered with me." (All grammatical errors are Noreen's, not mine.)

Not trying to be argumentative, but I just have a really hard time believing that she really went to the DMPD or the WDMPD and they ignored her and her tape recording. I mean cause if she did have a recording and she was ignored by the PD she could have taken that tape to the Martin's and they could have sued the PD for not following up on a threat.

I just have a really hard time believing a lot of the stuff that Noreen has said and continues to say about the kidnappings.

Mel ~

mnegri1973
07-27-2010, 01:10 AM
Just came across this thread for Eugene. I've been thinking so much about these boys lately. Eugene's case received so little publicity compared to Johnny's and I could never understand why. Even though Des Moines is a large city (for the midwest), these kind of things just didn't typically happen in Iowa. I feel especially sad for his family. Recently, I read Eugene's step-mother had passed away and his father is in a nursing home with Alzheimer's Disease. All these years and still no idea what happened to him. Heartbreaking.

It always bothered me as well about how little Eugene's case received vs. Johnny's case. My friend and her family would wear a shirt that had both boy's pictures and info on them. I just always felt so badly for my friend. I can remember my parents talking about the cases and how they wondered if Johnny received more media attention then Eugene due to the Gosch's had more money and lived in a pretty nice area of Des Moines where as the Martin's lived in a not so well to do area of Des Moines.

I have lost touch with my friend over the years and had not heard about Eugene's step mom and his father. This is just so sad.

Mel ~

Mr. E
07-27-2010, 07:17 AM
Not trying to be argumentative, but I just have a really hard time believing that she really went to the DMPD or the WDMPD and they ignored her and her tape recording. I mean cause if she did have a recording and she was ignored by the PD she could have taken that tape to the Martin's and they could have sued the PD for not following up on a threat.

I just have a really hard time believing a lot of the stuff that Noreen has said and continues to say about the kidnappings.

Mel ~

I can understand that, and who knows, maybe she is lying. Her book is rambling and tends to sound a little crazy. I remember from when the kidnapping happened that Noreen became frustrated with LE because they wouldn't listen to her or take her seriously. They told her to go home and forget about it because her son had just run away. This was in her book, but it was also reported at the time. I wouldn't put it past LE to ignore her about tapes warning of another kidnapping, but you're right, with just her word, who is to say it actually happened? I'd be interested to know her answer if someone were to ask her if she gave the tapes to the Martins.

milopedes
07-27-2010, 02:08 PM
Yarg! I went and tried (upon suggestion) to read the Johnny Gosch thread starting from the initial post on the topic. I wanted to find out more about that case and the Eugene Martin case.

Let me say this: I have a massive headache!!! And I only made it to Post #108. Too much infighting, misinformation, and overly strong opinions. In cases like this, opinions eventually get confused with facts . . . so for the uninformed, it is difficult to get up-to-speed on a case. Not to mention, links are old and this story involves a cast (allegedly) of so many characters . . . whew! Maybe more on another day.

Mr. E
07-28-2010, 07:20 AM
Yarg! I went and tried (upon suggestion) to read the Johnny Gosch thread starting from the initial post on the topic. I wanted to find out more about that case and the Eugene Martin case.

Let me say this: I have a massive headache!!! And I only made it to Post #108. Too much infighting, misinformation, and overly strong opinions. In cases like this, opinions eventually get confused with facts . . . so for the uninformed, it is difficult to get up-to-speed on a case. Not to mention, links are old and this story involves a cast (allegedly) of so many characters . . . whew! Maybe more on another day.

Yeah, this whole case is so complicated and out there. It's hard to know who's who, who's telling the truth, what IS the truth, etc. I've been on another site that speaks about Johnny; I've seen doctored photos and heard out-and-out lies. One minute a person involved is trustworthy; the next he's a liar. It's like a bad novel. I feel sorry that this kid's disappearance is mixed up in all this craziness. I'd love to know what is really the truth.

MnkeyBznes
07-28-2010, 10:00 AM
I am originally from Des Moines and lived there when the Johnny Gosch and Eugene Martin cases happened. My son was just a little younger than those boys and also a paper boy so I remember it all very well. From day 1 the police treated Noreen Gosch like she was crazy. I saw a frantic mother trying to get anyone to listen to her and DO something to try and find Johnny! I can't speak for the Martin family but maybe there wasn't as much publicity around Eugene because they didn't want to be made to look crazy too. JMO

Poobah90
07-29-2010, 12:05 AM
Just came across this thread for Eugene. I've been thinking so much about these boys lately. Eugene's case received so little publicity compared to Johnny's and I could never understand why. Even though Des Moines is a large city (for the midwest), these kind of things just didn't typically happen in Iowa. I feel especially sad for his family. Recently, I read Eugene's step-mother had passed away and his father is in a nursing home with Alzheimer's Disease. All these years and still no idea what happened to him. Heartbreaking.

Very heartbreaking.

Mandy113
08-09-2010, 07:55 PM
No new information here but he shouldn't be forgotten

Here's a brief news story recounting Eugene's dissappearance & the efforts made to find him. Air date 7/8/10

http://www.whotv.com/videobeta/bc253439-75d0-4ec2-a25e-b1e82e206f13/News/Cold-Cases


If that link doesn't work, I found the news story on this web site

http://iowacoldcases.org/

Cubby
09-20-2010, 05:17 PM
bump ..

Pandora
11-26-2010, 07:35 AM
http://www.whotv.com/news/who-cold-case-marc-allen-112510,0,5591121.story

Texas Mist
12-29-2010, 01:55 PM
<snip>

[Donald] Martin's obituary requests that memorial contributions be given to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.


more here

http://www.kcci.com/r/26311761/detail.html

Mandy113
07-21-2011, 12:28 PM
Bumping for Eugene again. He should not be forgotten.

scriptgirl
04-25-2012, 11:14 PM
I have to wonder if Jacob Wetterling is not tied into this somehow and poor Marc Allen, at least people know about Eugene. I think the same perp took all these newsboys.

spring24
12-27-2012, 04:28 PM
I've always thought the two were related. Not sure about the third, though it seems likely. I wonder if there is anyway to find out who was living in the area at the time... and then cross check that with the other case. Both boys seem to have a pretty specific missing location (where their newspapers were found)... It would seem that the person lived within a few blocks of that.

Veidt
01-08-2013, 04:19 AM
What, if anything, ever resulted from this?

I found this: http://www.kcci.com/Probe-Over-Boys-Photos-Continues/-/9357770/7283558/-/rti1b2/-/index.html .

Wiki says that it turned out that a newspaper got a letter tipping them off to the fact that the photos were takenin the 70s by kids doing an escape contest and cleared by police in Florida. The sheriff of the county who investigated those pictures back then said that there was no evidence of wrongdoing. Johnny Gosch's mother continues to say that it's definitely her son in the photos. I can't tell if these statements are correct because the Wiki sources link to the article above plus several presumably more in-depth ones on the Des Moines Register website but since they're a few years old I can't access them. It seems like the site underwent some changes so they were taken down or archived somewhere. Maybe someone can find them? Using archive.org won't do anything.

Cappuccino
01-08-2013, 07:45 PM
I found this: http://www.kcci.com/Probe-Over-Boys-Photos-Continues/-/9357770/7283558/-/rti1b2/-/index.html .

Wiki says that it turned out that a newspaper got a letter tipping them off to the fact that the photos were takenin the 70s by kids doing an escape contest and cleared by police in Florida. The sheriff of the county who investigated those pictures back then said that there was no evidence of wrongdoing. Johnny Gosch's mother continues to say that it's definitely her son in the photos. I can't tell if these statements are correct because the Wiki sources link to the article above plus several presumably more in-depth ones on the Des Moines Register website but since they're a few years old I can't access them. It seems like the site underwent some changes so they were taken down or archived somewhere. Maybe someone can find them? Using archive.org won't do anything.

What are you trying to find, the photographs? They are all posted on Noreen Gosch's own website.

Personally, I don't think any of them look anything like Johnny Gosch.

Veidt
01-09-2013, 11:41 AM
What are you trying to find, the photographs? They are all posted on Noreen Gosch's own website.

Personally, I don't think any of them look anything like Johnny Gosch.


No, I was trying to find the articles that Wiki cites as a source for the more in-depth statements from the police in Florida who say they investigated the pictures in the 70s. There is the link I posted but additional details in the wikipedia page are linked to a site that was clearly updated and the articles must have changed URL.

mikkismom
05-08-2013, 12:43 PM
Have you seen these missing Iowa children?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20130508/NEWS/130508011/?odyssey=nav%7Chead

Ozzie
08-12-2013, 08:47 PM
Bumping for Eugene! Missing for 29 years. Hopefully Eugene and his family will get justice.

scriptgirl
03-21-2014, 12:17 PM
I don't think we will ever know what really went down. I do think all 3 newsboys were taken by the same guy