Planned?

[britgirl]

Hi everyone. I was just wondering, for those who believe Darlie is guilty- do you think she premeditated the murders, or was it spur of the moment? Did she decide to kill her boys- or did she just snap?

(For the record, I'm undecided on her guilt- I'm leaning towards her having committed the murders, but I'm not 100% convinced).

[sue1017]

Planned?

The jury is still out! :behindbar

I do think she did it and she is where she belongs.

MOO,

S

[Goody]

Hi everyone. I was just wondering, for those who believe Darlie is guilty- do you think she premeditated the murders, or was it spur of the moment? Did she decide to kill her boys- or did she just snap?

(For the record, I'm undecided on her guilt- I'm leaning towards her having committed the murders, but I'm not 100% convinced).
From everything I have studied in this case so far, it appears that both theories have holes in them and both have some interesting supporting evidence/information. I don't think we know enough yet to make an educated judgement on that though. Like the poster before me said, "the jury is still out."

[AussieAussie]

I am going with safe ground and saying 'a bit of both'. I bet she thought a lot about how much easier life would be without the 2 boys and had thought of ways of achieving that. On that night though I reckon she did it spur of the moment, woke up and looked around and felt the silence and loneliness of downstairs and figured it would be so easy to just stab them, she probably figured that if she stab hard enough they wouldn't even wake up. Hence the vicious terrible injuries they sustained.

I would still like to believe that a mother could never do this to her children but the way she spoke after the silly string party is not a mother grieving any sort of loss. Even the interview with her on death row sounds more grieving than she did 8 days after their murder. Sadly her grief is now for herself not her poor defenseless little boys.

One of my sons is 6 years old and I look at him and think how could she have?????? If there was an intruder in my house that had hurt my son, slit throat or not he wouldn't have got out of there without some damage from me!

Jayne

[Jeana (DP)]

I think she planned it, but by no more than hours.

[cami]

Hi everyone. I was just wondering, for those who believe Darlie is guilty- do you think she premeditated the murders, or was it spur of the moment? Did she decide to kill her boys- or did she just snap?

(For the record, I'm undecided on her guilt- I'm leaning towards her having committed the murders, but I'm not 100% convinced).

I won't let myself believe she planned it. NOt for any length of time anyway. maybe she did by a couple of hours as Jeana thinks but the jury is still out for me on this one.

[Jules]

I won't let myself believe she planned it. NOt for any length of time anyway. maybe she did by a couple of hours as Jeana thinks but the jury is still out for me on this one.

I think she thought about it, but never too seriously, until right before it happened. I think she thought "my life would be so much easier and I'd have so much more money if it weren't for these kids" type of thing, but something set her off the night she carried it out.

[Jeana (DP)]

I think she thought about it, but never too seriously, until right before it happened. I think she thought "my life would be so much easier and I'd have so much more money if it weren't for these kids" type of thing, but something set her off the night she carried it out.


The fight with Darin set her off. I'm sure she told him plenty of times she wanted a "divorce" or "separation," however, IMO that night he told her he did too and that started it.

[beesy]

The fight with Darin set her off. I'm sure she told him plenty of times she wanted a "divorce" or "separation," however, IMO that night he told her he did too and that started it. I agree. I think Darlie had been thinking about how her life would be better without Damon and Devon. She was already used to the idea of them not being around because she had thought about it so often, not planned it, just thought about life without them. Everybody says "well why didn't she kill Drake and Darin", because I don't think she wanted them out of her life.
I even think that night during the fight with Darin, she said something about killing the boys, but it was more just an attention seeking thing. Darin might have shot back with "go ahead, you don't have the nerve, you're full of BS", etc. Maybe she took him up on his dare. More of an "I'll show him" thingy. Maybe that's why Darin helped her cover it up and supports her now. He feels guilty because he feels he helped bring it on. She probably helps him feel like that too. She might have said "you made me do this". I've had this theory in my head for awhile. It sounds like Darlie, doesn't it?

[Jules]

The fight with Darin set her off. I'm sure she told him plenty of times she wanted a "divorce" or "separation," however, IMO that night he told her he did too and that started it.

Thanks Jeana - forgot that part... :doh: :blowkiss:

[texaslb218]

It also might be that she told Darin that he would just be better off without her and the boys (oh poor me kind of thing). It could have been in the back of her small mind that she would do them and herself. Of course, she would never have the personal strength to harm herself. I don't count her little cuts as very harmful. IMO only

[deanws]

I think she planned it, but by no more than hours.I am wondering about a few things. Why do you think she did it? Killing the boys wouldn't solve the cash flow problems they were having, at least not immediately. The funeral expenses were more than the insurance payout. If she did it for the "MOM" burn out factor,
that doesn't make sense either because she still had the baby to take care of. That only leaves the "attention" sympathy factor, or getting even with Darin. If it was to get even with Darin, WHY is he protecting her!?!? I had heard that she may be covering for some dirty business deals he made. Even still, I am just wondering WHAT her point was! What did she have to gain?

[beesy]

I am wondering about a few things. Why do you think she did it? Killing the boys wouldn't solve the cash flow problems they were having, at least not immediately. The funeral expenses were more than the insurance payout. If she did it for the "MOM" burn out factor,
that doesn't make sense either because she still had the baby to take care of. That only leaves the "attention" sympathy factor, or getting even with Darin. If it was to get even with Darin, WHY is he protecting her!?!? I had heard that she may be covering for some dirty business deals he made. Even still, I am just wondering WHAT her point was! What did she have to gain? I'm not really sure anybody will ever know the motive. How can we? We don't think the way Darlie or Darin think. I doubt Darlie even knows why she did it. She is very selfish and I think it just all piled up. Things that make a "normal" person upset, started throwing her over the edge. She gained nothing, but she shed a couple of things. I think she liked babies, but once they became boys, she didn't know what to do with them. They took too much time, etc. She probably still wanted Drake and Darin. She just figured she'd be believed and they could move on with their lives.

[HeartofTexas]

While I agree with what many posters have said, and in particular Beesy, I still tend to think that it wasn't planned in the real sense. Jeana is probably right on the "no more than a few hours". I think if Darlie had actually planned things then Drake would have also been killed that night. There was no monetary advantage to killing the boys, since the funerals no doubt cost more than the worth of the insurance policies, so the advantage for Darlie had to be either her freedom or hurting Darin. If it was her freedom, then Drake would also need to be killed. However, in order to kill Drake, she would have to risk waking Darin... and she didn't want to do that. I think if Darin had caught her in the act of killing any of the boys, he would have stopped her.

[deanws]

While I agree with what many posters have said, and in particular Beesy, I still tend to think that it wasn't planned in the real sense. Jeana is probably right on the "no more than a few hours". I think if Darlie had actually planned things then Drake would have also been killed that night. There was no monetary advantage to killing the boys, since the funerals no doubt cost more than the worth of the insurance policies, so the advantage for Darlie had to be either her freedom or hurting Darin. If it was her freedom, then Drake would also need to be killed. However, in order to kill Drake, she would have to risk waking Darin... and she didn't want to do that. I think if Darin had caught her in the act of killing any of the boys, he would have stopped her.So you believe that if she did it, Darin is not a part of it? If this is so, do you believe he knows now? None of this crime makes sense to me, so I am still trying to figure it out. Unlike the Peterson crime, this one has no clear motive as far as I can tell. Like you said, if freedom was the key, there was still the baby!?!?! Of course, she wasn't the brightest crayon in the box to begin with.:waitasec:

[Goody]

So you believe that if she did it, Darin is not a part of it? If this is so, do you believe he knows now? None of this crime makes sense to me, so I am still trying to figure it out. Unlike the Peterson crime, this one has no clear motive as far as I can tell. Like you said, if freedom was the key, there was still the baby!?!?! Of course, she wasn't the brightest crayon in the box to begin with.:waitasec:
She's not that dumb either. She is just self involved. So is he. Imo, of course. I think she had a lot to gain with the deaths. Look at it this way, you have a young mother who is not very energetic struggling with two very active little boys and one baby. Darlie liked quiet things, pretty things. She liked to put things somewhere and find them in the same spot when she came back. Babies and small animals are easy to control, 5 and 6 year old boys are not. Seems like the most strenuous thing they did was take the family to the amusement park and the zoo.

She could put the baby down for a nap and not be bothered for awhile,and even then all she had to do was change and feed him and her personal time was not that invaded. He plays quietly while she does her own thing. With Damon and Devon, it was a whole different ball game. They were always wanting something, always needing something, always getting into something, always breaking something, always messing something up....(at least my boys were) For a very materialistic person, that can be a major interruption and inconvenience. I am sure she thought how much easier life would be if they only had one child, maybe she even thought they would raise the next one differently so she would have more control over him. And this happened at a time when Texas murders were often depicted in the movie of the week. I saw one article about how Texas was a hotbed for Hollywood true crime. It was no secret that Darlie had aspirations to become a star. They even had their own karoke machine so Darlie could sing to the family. Maybe she thought great tragedy would be a vehicle to fame and fortune. Or maybe all of these thoughts were tumbling around together with her focus landing on one or the other at different times.

Then you have her general health which was questionable to say the least. She had been taking the notorious Phenfen for longer than recommended. She only had about 20 pounds to lose so she shouldn't have been taking it at all. It was interferring with her sleep, which is why the baby was waking her when he rolled over in his crib. I imagine she liked sleeping downstairs because she could count on Darin getting up with the baby if Darin was the one sleeping in the room with him.(Anybody else know that trick? heheheeh)

So now you have a grumpy Darlie on a hot night on edge from the pressures of not having enough money to pay for all the things she had coming up (not to mention the family bills) on strong diet pills that had been aggravating her sleep for the last few months (she'd been taking them since March), trapped in the house all day without the ability to go for a drive to let off some steam, and two little boys that had driven her bonkers all day with their antics....when they emptied the hot tub that really ticked her off.....and Darin not doing much about any of it. There was plenty of reason for Darlie to plan it in the preceding weeks and there was plenty of reason for her to just fly off the handle and lash out at the boys, probably Devon. She has always said he was a Daddy's boy, that Damon tended to stay close to Mommie. I think that was true and I think their wounds reflect it. I also think that Devon was the most active little boy, that Damon was much quieter and easier to be around.

The key in determining premeditation and the timing of its origin lies in the things that were different on that day or that time period. And there are things that stand out.

1. The suicide attempt/threat in May, approx one month previous
2. The hiring of the maid after going without one for several months.
3. Bringing all of her jewelry downstairs to show to the maid, supposedly with the hope the maid might buy some or know someone who might want it.
4. Leaving the jewelry downstairs along with her wallet, credit cards, etc on the counter in plain sight rather than return them to their place upstairs.
5. Sleeping downstairs with the boys after telling Devon that he could not have an overnight guest because of the hot tub incident.
6. Sending Dana home.
7. Applying for a small loan and being turned down because of income debt ratio. (They were already over their limits in debt or darned close to it.)

These things definitely make you scratch your head when considering how much planning might have gone on.

[Goody]

If it was her freedom, then Drake would also need to be killed. However, in order to kill Drake, she would have to risk waking Darin... and she didn't want to do that. I think if Darin had caught her in the act of killing any of the boys, he would have stopped her.
Let's put it this way, if she was the one with the knife, Darin had to know it before she was arrested. If he was the one with the knife, she had to know it all along. So how likely could it be that either of them are innocent?

[Dani_T]

While I agree with what many posters have said, and in particular Beesy, I still tend to think that it wasn't planned in the real sense. Jeana is probably right on the "no more than a few hours". I think if Darlie had actually planned things then Drake would have also been killed that night. There was no monetary advantage to killing the boys, since the funerals no doubt cost more than the worth of the insurance policies, so the advantage for Darlie had to be either her freedom or hurting Darin. If it was her freedom, then Drake would also need to be killed. However, in order to kill Drake, she would have to risk waking Darin... and she didn't want to do that. I think if Darin had caught her in the act of killing any of the boys, he would have stopped her.
I'm not sure I agree. I don't know how planned the attacks were but I don't think Drake was a necessary victim of her freedom. He may have represented a 'fresh start' to Darlie. And when you think about it what scenario could she have concoted where all three boys were killed and she surivived and yet was not implicated? She would have had to have done it during the day and no one is going to believe an intruder would break into the house in broad daylight, committ three murders and then get away unnoticed. Otherwise she would have had to have concotted a reason why Drake would stay downstairs at night and that is impossible since sleeping away from him was her own excuse.

Even if Drake did not represent a clean slate and she wanted to kill him also she may have decided to murder the two boys and then later down the track kill Drake in a separate incident (perhaps to make it look like cot death or something).

I just don't see any feasible scenario, not matter how much time went into the planning, where she could have made it look like someone else murdered all three boys and attacked her. Even if she wanted to claim an intruder went upstairs after or before attacking them downstairs and killed Drake then what about Darin? No intruder would have left him lying alive in that bed. She had no way of getting to ALL of the boys with an intruder or other person scenario.

[Dani_T]

Let's put it this way, if she was the one with the knife, Darin had to know it before she was arrested.
Not necessarily. I imagine it would take a lot to convince a husband that his own wife had stabbed their two kids to death. Whilst he may have known it on a subconcious level he would't have necessarily realised it. His contradicting stories seem to me to be a scramble to help Darlie but I'm not sure they were a sign that he knew she was guilty and wanted her to be free so she could come back home and take care of the only son she didn't murder.

[Goody]

Not necessarily. I imagine it would take a lot to convince a husband that his own wife had stabbed their two kids to death. Whilst he may have known it on a subconcious level he would't have necessarily realised it. His contradicting stories seem to me to be a scramble to help Darlie but I'm not sure they were a sign that he knew she was guilty and wanted her to be free so she could come back home and take care of the only son she didn't murder.
I don't think Darin is a complicated man at all. I think he lies just to be lying sometimes. Mostly because he has never really been held accountable before and feels he can just wave off most of it. And for the most part he is right. It has not caught up with him to any great degree yet.

If he went back to look at the screen as he says he did, what does that tell you? It tells me he was suspicious of her at that point already or that he wanted to see something else. Or that he wanted to make himself appear not guilty.

Most importantly he talks about these children's brutal deaths, often smiling and without any semblance of negative emotion. It is like he is describing what the Empire State Building looks like on a sunny spring day. Something has sure desensitized him to the brutality of it all. I've seen people describe their pet's death more seriously than he talks about his own sons' vicious wounds. And he has never made any effort at all to even find the real killer. He's been out and about all these years. If he truly believed Darlie to be innocent, you'd think he would be investigating himself or trying to raise money to pay for a private investigation. We get none of this from Darin.

I think he just wants to do what he can to free Darlie and keep himself out of jail. If she is executed, he will breathe a sigh of relief. That is the only way he is going to be free.

[HeartofTexas]

DeanDaniel, do I think Darin was a part of it? Well, not in the murders, no. But I do think he was quite capable of participating in a cover-up and is probably lying through his teeth to this day.

Goody, you've written some incredible posts. Your knowledge is vast! I loved this line... "Maybe she thought great tragedy would be a vehicle to fame and fortune." It certainly looked like she was auditioning for something on the silly string footage. She saw cameras rolling and apparently every last bit of her brains went right out the back door.

I also think Darlie's depression played a big part in what happened that night. But, as Goody said, there were many things that happened together that probably brought about the events of that night.

Sorry, I didn't know how to get rid of the blue type after I used Goody's quote.

[deanws]

WOW Goody. Great post and definately some things to think about.

[deanws]

Heart, if he knows then he is as big of a creep as she is for not telling. IMO

[Goody]

DeanDaniel, do I think Darin was a part of it? Well, not in the murders, no. But I do think he was quite capable of participating in a cover-up and is probably lying through his teeth to this day.

Goody, you've written some incredible posts. Your knowledge is vast! I loved this line... "Maybe she thought great tragedy would be a vehicle to fame and fortune." It certainly looked like she was auditioning for something on the silly string footage. She saw cameras rolling and apparently every last bit of her brains went right out the back door.

I also think Darlie's depression played a big part in what happened that night. But, as Goody said, there were many things that happened together that probably brought about the events of that night.

Sorry, I didn't know how to get rid of the blue type after I used Goody's quote.


When you are in the reply mode, the color button is across the top. It is the big A. Click on that and make your selection. You can highlight some of the text if you only want to change part of it to a different color. Hope that helps.

Thank you for your compliments, but I should tell you that there are others with an even greater knowledge of this case than ol' Goody. I am still drawn to it because of the mystery left unsolved. I want to know the detail around the crime, what triggered her, if Darin was involved, and if so, how, etc. I am anxious to see what happens on her federal appeals.

[Goody]

WOW Goody. Great post and definately some things to think about.
Well, if you make any break thrus, please share it because we are still trying to sort it all out. :confused:

[deanws]

Goody..why is he covering for her?

[Dani_T]

If he went back to look at the screen as he says he did, what does that tell you? It tells me he was suspicious of her at that point already or that he wanted to see something else. Or that he wanted to make himself appear not guilty.

Hmmm- see I think it could very well just have been a man whose world was collapsing and he just can't believe it. I think it would be a natural reaction to want to see how the hell this happened.

That's, as Mary said, IF he did it. I think I remember reading that he went through the white carpeted dining room (?) and there wasn't a speck of blood transfer from his feet on the carpet which made me doubtful- not to mention as Mary said the officer at the door.


Most importantly he talks about these children's brutal deaths, often smiling and without any semblance of negative emotion. It is like he is describing what the Empire State Building looks like on a sunny spring day.

He does? Where?

[HeartofTexas]

Goody, thanks so much for the tip on how to change the colors. I looked at the "A", but didn't think it was what I needed. So much for thinking!

I was drawn to the Darlie case for a long time after it happened and used to have a lot of knowledge about it, although certainly not in the category of many of you who have studied the various transcripts and kept up with the appeals, etc. I live just a few miles from where it happened and also worked at one time for the man who was the Judge in this case during the trial, so all of that worked together to make this case very interesting to me. Unfortunately, over the years, I've forgotten so many of the details... but I've never waivered on thinking she did it. I also think she would love to scream at the top of her lungs the ways that Darin probably helped her cover up the crimes but she can't, because the very act of implicating Darin would implicate her even more, so I assume she will go to her grave with her big mouth shut. I think of Darlie as someone who is an empty soul, with no depth. All she cared about were what money could buy, having a good time and trying to impress others. Eventually, even that wasn't enough to fill up her emptiness and then the depression started. When money problems took over, I think it was a short road to that fateful night.

[beesy]

]She's not that dumb either. She is just self involved. So is he. Imo, of course. I think she had a lot to gain with the deaths. Look at it this way, you have a young mother who is not very energetic struggling with two very active little boys and one baby. Darlie liked quiet things, pretty things. She liked to put things somewhere and find them in the same spot when she came back. Babies and small animals are easy to control, 5 and 6 year old boys are not. Seems like the most strenuous thing they did was take the family to the amusement park and the zoo.
She could put the baby down for a nap and not be bothered for awhile,and even then all she had to do was change and feed him and her personal time was not that invaded. He plays quietly while she does her own thing. With Damon and Devon, it was a whole different ball game. They were always wanting something, always needing something, always getting into something, always breaking something, always messing something up....(at least my boys were) For a very materialistic person, that can be a major interruption and inconvenience. I am sure she thought how much easier life would be if they only had one child, maybe she even thought they would raise the next one differently so she would have more control over him.

I have been trying to say that for weeks. You just nailed it. I was having trouble getting my thoughts on paper. Thanks!

And this happened at a time when Texas murders were often depicted in the movie of the week. I saw one article about how Texas was a hotbed for Hollywood true crime. It was no secret that Darlie had aspirations to become a star. They even had their own karoke machine so Darlie could sing to the family. Maybe she thought great tragedy would be a vehicle to fame and fortune. Or maybe all of these thoughts were tumbling around together with her focus landing on one or the other at different times.

I totally agree. The Dallas area especially was getting alot of Lifetime movies. There was an ax murder in Plano a few years before the Routier boys were killed. It made a great book and movie, filled with affairs and so-called normal people reaching a breaking point. Darlie got what she wanted! She'll go down in history.


Then you have her general health which was questionable to say the least. She had been taking the notorious Phenfen for longer than recommended. She only had about 20 pounds to lose so she shouldn't have been taking it at all. It was interferring with her sleep, which is why the baby was waking her when he rolled over in his crib. I imagine she liked sleeping downstairs because she could count on Darin getting up with the baby if Darin was the one sleeping in the room with him.(Anybody else know that trick? heheheeh)
So now you have a grumpy Darlie on a hot night on edge from the pressures of not having enough money to pay for all the things she had coming up (not to mention the family bills) on strong diet pills that had been aggravating her sleep for the last few months (she'd been taking them since March), trapped in the house all day without the ability to go for a drive to let off some steam, and two little boys that had driven her bonkers all day with their antics....when they emptied the hot tub that really ticked her off.....and Darin not doing much about any of it. There was plenty of reason for Darlie to plan it in the preceding weeks and there was plenty of reason for her to just fly off the handle and lash out at the boys, probably Devon. She has always said he was a Daddy's boy, that Damon tended to stay close to Mommie. I think that was true and I think their wounds reflect it. I also think that Devon was the most active little boy, that Damon was much quieter and easier to be around.
I think she had more issues with Devon too. Funny she was convicted with killing Damon. Irony

[Goody]

Goody..why is he covering for her?
Right off the top of my head, maybe he is hoping to profit off of it somehow. At least that is where his head seemed to be at in the days following the murders. According to what I've read, he hired an agent to shop his story rights only two days after Darlie's arrest and sold them later to CWB, who ended up living in his parents' home. (Wonder if they are any royalty or reversion clauses in that deal?) Two days is barely enough time to even make the decision let alone find an agent to make a deal with. Makes me think this may have been in the works before her arrest, and maybe that is why they were kicking up their heels in the front yard as they took the toys off the dying wreaths left there by wellwishers.

He had Darlie's face and the boys tattooed on his arm and sported it proudly in front of the court house during the trial, mugging for the camera if you ask me. Both families were doing things to create a circus like atmosphere, wearing Free Darlie tshirts, singing gospel songs, holding prayer circles, cursing those we tried to speak out against her. The only thing missing was the popcorn stand and the organ grinder with the monkey.

Then there are the graphic photos the family has put up on their web site. I can understand putting up most of them, but photos of the boys' wounds just are not necessary unless they are hoping to shock people, keep their interest alive for some possible future gain. Some might say that is Darlie's release, and they no doubt want that, but I don't think they need those photos online to accomplish that (if it could be accomplished.) So I think there are some hidden dollar signs dancing around most of the players in this case on the defense side.

Darin also seems to be very afraid of being sent to prison in Darlie's place, and that is reflected in some of the things he has said and done since her arrest. It seems to me that if his loyalty was based on unconditional love that he might be willing to take her place just to spare her life, but he has made it quite clear that he has no intention of doing that. So he has some other reason for not standing up for his boys and denouncing her for killing them. Could be he thinks what he did that night would net him a prison term if the truth were known,

And let's not forget what questions he failed on the polygraph tests 5 times!! They were all about what he knew about the murders. If you believe those tests had any credibility, you'd have to believe that he knows who killed his children.

And, no, I am not buying that he hired someone to break into the house. That was just a last ditch effort to come up with something, anything, to take the heat off of Darlie. Darin can't even name names. Why? Because he didn't hire anyone. The only claim they have so far is that he asked his stepfather-in-law if he knew anyone who would do it. Maybe he was thinking about it, but he never got around to doing it. If he had, he would have spilled his guts from day one to spare his wife the scrutiny. Besides who would lie about something like that in the face of your two small children being slaughtered like that all over your lilly white carpet in your new subdivision, middle-class home?

Bottom line, if Darin had something to fear from Darlie, he had reason to lie for her.

[Goody]

[/b][/color]

Hmmm- see I think it could very well just have been a man whose world was collapsing and he just can't believe it. I think it would be a natural reaction to want to see how the hell this happened.

That's, as Mary said, IF he did it. I think I remember reading that he went through the white carpeted dining room (?) and there wasn't a speck of blood transfer from his feet on the carpet which made me doubtful- not to mention as Mary said the officer at the door.

Actually, I tend to agree with you guys on this one. You almost have to accept his word for it or believe it was just another lie, and there is enough contradicting evidence to weigh against on this.





He does? Where?[/color][/b]

Watch him on Leeza and the other talk shows. Sometimes he appears serious, but esp on the Leeza Show he talks about it as if he is not related to the victims. He can go over and up and down the evidence without a tremble or a stutter. The more comfortable he gets, the less he tries to project what he thinks people want to see. He just reacts. I don't see a man who is troubled by the loss of his kids. I see a man caught up in trying to free his wife,and he is not even that involved in that, other than going on TV and talking about it. He sure isn't out there looking for the one-armed man.

[Goody]

Goody, thanks so much for the tip on how to change the colors. I looked at the "A", but didn't think it was what I needed. So much for thinking!

I was drawn to the Darlie case for a long time after it happened and used to have a lot of knowledge about it, although certainly not in the category of many of you who have studied the various transcripts and kept up with the appeals, etc. I live just a few miles from where it happened and also worked at one time for the man who was the Judge in this case during the trial, so all of that worked together to make this case very interesting to me. Unfortunately, over the years, I've forgotten so many of the details... but I've never waivered on thinking she did it. I also think she would love to scream at the top of her lungs the ways that Darin probably helped her cover up the crimes but she can't, because the very act of implicating Darin would implicate her even more, so I assume she will go to her grave with her big mouth shut. I think of Darlie as someone who is an empty soul, with no depth. All she cared about were what money could buy, having a good time and trying to impress others. Eventually, even that wasn't enough to fill up her emptiness and then the depression started. When money problems took over, I think it was a short road to that fateful night.
Wow. That would be the judge who retired, right? Sorry, but I have forgotten his name. Is it true he put off his retirement to try this case and that he made the calls himself to find an open court room which is how it ended up in Kerrville? Don Davis wrote that they only had the courtroom for one month. Did the judge push for the trial to end in that time period? Is that why both sides seemed to put limits on who they called and what evidence they presented?

[Goody]

I totally agree. The Dallas area especially was getting alot of Lifetime movies. There was an ax murder in Plano a few years before the Routier boys were killed. It made a great book and movie, filled with affairs and so-called normal people reaching a breaking point. Darlie got what she wanted! She'll go down in history.

The murder you are talking about actually occurred in the Rowlett area, in a little town nearby. I think it is closer to Rowlett than Plano. The woman's name was Montgomery.


I think she had more issues with Devon too. Funny she was convicted with killing Damon. Irony



I know. I have always wondered if she was convicted for the wrong murder. Wouldn't that be something? If she flew off the handle and killed Devon, then whatever happened between her and Darin happened, and then he killed Damon but she went down for it. Imagine the inner turmoil she'd have over that one.

[HeartofTexas]

I think Candace Montgomery actually lived closer to McKinney, Texas, which is north of Plano. It was a small town near McKinney, but I can't remember the name. She was another piece of work... years later, she could NOT understand why the people in Texas hadn't forgiven her for that crime. Ha! And wasn't there something about "shut up, shut up" being what supposedly triggered her rage? Also, I believe Doug Mulder was the attorney who got her off on that crime. Last I heard, she lived in the Atlanta area. Another little tidbit... one of my close friends worked (at the time of the murder) with the husband who was having the affair with Candace. He was this quiet guy who nobody would ever have suspected of having an affair!

I didn't work for the Judge (Mark Tolle) at the time of the trial but had worked for him on and off in the years prior, so wasn't privy to all of the little in's and out's of the trial. I did talk to him after the trial was over, though. And yes, he retired following the trial. He is one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet.

[HeartofTexas]

I may be wrong on Doug Mulder defending Candy Montgomery because all I can find is some attorney named Don Crowder (who committed suicide in the late 90's) defending her. I guess my memory is not what it used to be! Aaacccckkkk! I could have sworn Mulder represented her. My apologies. The small town could have been either Wylie, Texas or Lucas, Texas, as I've found both in my searches. Both are pretty much between Plano and McKinney, Texas, although Wylie may be a little bit to the west.

[Juliana]

I think Candace Montgomery actually lived closer to McKinney, Texas, which is north of Plano. It was a small town near McKinney, but I can't remember the name. She was another piece of work... years later, she could NOT understand why the people in Texas hadn't forgiven her for that crime. Ha! And wasn't there something about "shut up, shut up" being what supposedly triggered her rage? Also, I believe Doug Mulder was the attorney who got her off on that crime. Last I heard, she lived in the Atlanta area. Another little tidbit... one of my close friends worked (at the time of the murder) with the husband who was having the affair with Candace. He was this quiet guy who nobody would ever have suspected of having an affair!

I didn't work for the Judge (Mark Tolle) at the time of the trial but had worked for him on and off in the years prior, so wasn't privy to all of the little in's and out's of the trial. I did talk to him after the trial was over, though. And yes, he retired following the trial. He is one of the nicest people you would ever want to meet.

I think the town is Allan. It's not important, but it's one of those little things that keeps you up at night - "what is the name of that town?"

[HeartofTexas]

Mulder didn't represent Montgomery... he represented another famous Texas case... Rev. Walker Railey. Texas has so many sordid crimes that I guess it's hard to keep up with them!

Juliana, thanks for the tip on Allen. If it's not Allen, then it's Wylie I think.

[Mary456]

Mulder didn't represent Montgomery... he represented another famous Texas case... Rev. Walker Railey. Texas has so many sordid crimes that I guess it's hard to keep up with them!

Juliana, thanks for the tip on Allen. If it's not Allen, then it's Wylie I think.

Just pulled out my old copy of "Evidence of Love" and it happened in Wylie :)

[beesy]

[QUOTE=HeartofTexas]I think Candace Montgomery actually lived closer to McKinney, Texas, which is north of Plano. It was a small town near McKinney, but I can't remember the name. She was another piece of work... years later, she could NOT understand why the people in Texas hadn't forgiven her for that crime. Ha! Jeez, people, my point was there was all kinds of good fodder for Lifetime movies in the Dallas area. And Plano is mentioned in the book. I know Candy did not live in the same little town as Betty Gore. Great name, eh? And their church was in another little town. The murder actually took place in Wylie. If I wasn't so lazy, I'd hunt for the book and find out which towns. I really didn't think it freaking mattered girls! They are all near Dallas right? Have ya'll seen the movie? It's actually pretty good. The murder itself is really well-done. Brian Dennehy played her attorney and her real-life attorney thought he was better looking than Dennehy. LOL

And wasn't there something about "shut up, shut up" being what supposedly triggered her rage? Also, I believe Doug Mulder was the attorney who got her off on that crime. Last I heard, she lived in the Atlanta area. Another little tidbit... one of my close friends worked (at the time of the murder) with the husband who was having the affair with Candace. He was this quiet guy who nobody would ever have suspected of having an affair!
What happened was this: Candy and dang what's his name, were not even together anymore. The Gore's daughter was spending the night at Candy's house so Candy had to drive to Wylie to pick up the girl's bathing suit. The women were just chatting, then suddenly Betty said "are you and **** having an affair"? Candy said "did **** tell you?" Betty went and got an ax! Even with that in her hand, they both just tried to blow it off, talking about the bathing suit, etc. Then Candy put her hand on Betty's shoulder and said "I'm sorry". For some reason, that wasn't the right thing to say! Betty said "shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" which is really creepy to think about. Then swung the ax. So Betty attacked Candy first. Candy kept saying "I don't want him", which they say probably really pissed Betty off, like "what? you're giving my husband back cause you're finished with him?" Candy was trying to leave, the blood evidence proved this, until Betty whacked her on the head. Candy didn't know how injured she was, not very, and freaked out. Candy went further than self-defense though. She hacked the hell out of Betty. Then took a shower with her clothes on and went back to the Bible School at their church! I believe her version because the evidence backs it up, plus she admits to losing it and trying to cover it up. I'm thinking hubby's name is Allen, but since somebody mentioned Allen, maybe that's why I've got it in my head.

[HeartofTexas]

You're not making things up... his name is Allen Gore. And boy did Candy go into overkill... put the axe in Betty's body 41 times. And thanks for refreshing my memory... it wasn't "shut up", it was "shhhhhhhh". But Candy was a pretty odd duck, IMO. I remember so distinctly an article in a magazine where she was truly appalled that anyone still held the crime against her because she was found "innocent". Well, true, she was... but IMO it's okay for me to think she overdid it "a bit" by hitting Betty 41 times with an axe. In my eyes, she was not totally innocent, whether the jury found her so or not. And no, I've never seen the movie on this but I did read a book on it ("Evidence of Love"?).

[beesy]

You're not making things up... his name is Allen Gore. And boy did Candy go into overkill... put the axe in Betty's body 41 times. And thanks for refreshing my memory... it wasn't "shut up", it was "shhhhhhhh". But Candy was a pretty odd duck, IMO. I remember so distinctly an article in a magazine where she was truly appalled that anyone still held the crime against her because she was found "innocent". Well, true, she was... but IMO it's okay for me to think she overdid it "a bit" by hitting Betty 41 times with an axe. In my eyes, she was not totally innocent, whether the jury found her so or not. And no, I've never seen the movie on this but I did read a book on it ("Evidence of Love"?).Somebody needs to remind Candy that that there is no "innocent", just "not guilty" or "guilty".
Candy was a very odd duck. Betty wasn't very normal either though. Makes you wonder what "normal" is. They appeared to be, although Betty wasn't very social and tended to be needy. Neither seemed like anybody who would take an axe to a person. Alan was more worried about Betty offing herself than anything else. She was depressed, had a young baby and thought she was pregnant again. Candy was one of those women who volunteers for everything. Bible School teacher, and all kinds of things. It gives me the shivers thinking about that "shhhh" I don't know why, but it's so creepy. The book is called Evidence of Love and the movie is Murder in a Small Town. I found it on Netflix.

[Mary456]

Well, true, she was... but IMO it's okay for me to think she overdid it "a bit" by hitting Betty 41 times with an axe. In my eyes, she was not totally innocent, whether the jury found her so or not.

Hi, Heart of Texas! What this case really came down to, imo, was self defense. Betty was in a rage even before Candy got there, and every time Candy thought Betty was finally going to stop, Betty got up and attacked her again with the axe. I can understand how someone, in a fight for her life, would "overkill" when the attacker keeps coming back again and again, like a horror flick, lol!

James Cron (of Darlie Routier fame) was the guy who identified Candy's bloody fingerprint on the refrigerator in the laundry room, which led to her confession.

[beesy]

Hi, Heart of Texas! What this case really came down to, imo, was self defense. Betty was in a rage even before Candy got there, and every time Candy thought Betty was finally going to stop, Betty got up and attacked her again with the axe. I can understand how someone, in a fight for her life, would "overkill" when the attacker keeps coming back again and again, like a horror flick, lol!

James Cron (of Darlie Routier fame) was the guy who identified Candy's bloody fingerprint on the refrigerator in the laundry room, which led to her confession. Betty was not in a rage, or if she was, she didn't show it at that point. Chit-chatting about giving a little girl peppermints if she put her face in the water is not a rage. Even after Betty got the ax, she just put it down by the kitchen door, probably feeling like a dope for getting it. The chit chat actually continued for a few mins. longer. It was all very controlled until that dang "shhhh".... and self-defense is fine if you don't hack the other person into hamburger! I sort of picture Betty acting like The Terminator LOL She wouldn't stop, but still she had way stopped when Candy went nuts on her. I remember Candy felt that Betty had ruined her life. She didn't seem to feel too terribly bad. I mean she did kill a person, no matter who started it or continued it.
What really bothers me is that Candy just went on back to the church, the church for BEEP sake! And she left Betty and Alan's young baby, not quite 2 maybe, in the house by herself. Alan was out of town so the baby was by herself for a long time. And Mary you can't overlook the fact that she showered in Betty's house. She didn't try to clean up the crime scene, but she did shower and she also had Betty's older daughter at her house. That girl's mother was dead and Candy was just going on like nothing was wrong!

[HeartofTexas]

I hope we don't get in trouble for talking about this case on the Darlie board... so I apologize in advance if that's a no-no. I agree with you, Beesy. Everything Candy did was self-serving... from having an affair with Betty's husband, to feeling like Betty "ruined her life", to showering in Betty's home, to leaving tBetty's young child alone in her crib until something like 11:00 that night, and then just going back to the church like nothing had happened. Again, much like with the Darlie case, it's all about them. It's never about the victims. They seem to lead normal lives, acting like they are good citizens, but then something snaps I guess... and when push comes to shove, they lie about what happened, try to sweep it under the rug, etc. Was Candy just a walking time-bomb, or was this something that could have only happened under a very precise set of circumstances? I don't know the answer to that and doubt I ever will... but I don't think I'll ever agree that her going free was proper justice for the loss of Betty's life. If Candy had accidentally killed her in an automobile accident, I can see where she would not be guilty (especially if she didn't flee the scene)... but the very fact that she did flee the scene in this case to me shows guilt, or culpability.

[Jeana (DP)]

I am wondering about a few things. Why do you think she did it? Killing the boys wouldn't solve the cash flow problems they were having, at least not immediately. The funeral expenses were more than the insurance payout. If she did it for the "MOM" burn out factor,
that doesn't make sense either because she still had the baby to take care of. That only leaves the "attention" sympathy factor, or getting even with Darin. If it was to get even with Darin, WHY is he protecting her!?!? I had heard that she may be covering for some dirty business deals he made. Even still, I am just wondering WHAT her point was! What did she have to gain?


I don't know why she did it. Think back to every case we've heard about where a parent murdered their children. Do any of the "motives" make any sense? She wet her pants. She ate too much. She cried too much. My boyfriend didn't want to be a daddy. Do any of these reasons make any sense? I don't believe that money was a motive for Darlie in the sense that she thought she could make money off of their deaths. I think that money problems in general were a factor in making her snap the way she did. And, let's face it; funerals only cost what one is willing to spend. Suppose Darlie was starting to think that she could be a suspect and their small life insurance policy could be a motive??? Wouldn't she want to do away with that motive by spending more on their funeral than she got in life insurance? Even if it wasn't a factor, Darlie always spent more than they had. Nothing new there. I think that a combination of everything that was going wrong in her life at the time was enough to make her snap.

[cami]

Most importantly he talks about these children's brutal deaths, often smiling and without any semblance of negative emotion. It is like he is describing what the Empire State Building looks like on a sunny spring day. Something has sure desensitized him to the brutality of it all. I've seen people describe their pet's death more seriously than he talks about his own sons' vicious wounds. And he has never made any effort at all to even find the real killer. He's been out and about all these years. If he truly believed Darlie to be innocent, you'd think he would be investigating himself or trying to raise money to pay for a private investigation. We get none of this from Darin.

He does certainly appear to be quite stoic when he talks about the murders and the children Goody, I agree.

[cami]

Actually, I tend to agree with you guys on this one. You almost have to accept his word for it or believe it was just another lie, and there is enough contradicting evidence to weigh against on this.
[/color][/b]




[color=sienna][b]Watch him on Leeza and the other talk shows. Sometimes he appears serious, but esp on the Leeza Show he talks about it as if he is not related to the victims. He can go over and up and down the evidence without a tremble or a stutter. The more comfortable he gets, the less he tries to project what he thinks people want to see. He just reacts. I don't see a man who is troubled by the loss of his kids. I see a man caught up in trying to free his wife,and he is not even that involved in that, other than going on TV and talking about it. He sure isn't out there looking for the one-armed man.

He does on the American Justice program as well. I can't get over him on this program, he lies about their money problems, he acts like the murder of his two boys was miniscule, just another day in his life.

[beesy]

I may be wrong on Doug Mulder defending Candy Montgomery because all I can find is some attorney named Don Crowder (who committed suicide in the late 90's) defending her. I guess my memory is not what it used to be! Aaacccckkkk! I could have sworn Mulder represented her. My apologies. The small town could have been either Wylie, Texas or Lucas, Texas, as I've found both in my searches. Both are pretty much between Plano and McKinney, Texas, although Wylie may be a little bit to the west. All of those towns were involved somehow in the story. LOL..Candy drove the kids to Bible School in Lucas, needed to go to Allen for gas, then to Plano to shop at Wal-Mart and to Wylie to go to Betty's house. On her way out there, she passed thru or near McKinney.She also needed to go to another friend's house in Fairview!
Source: Evidence of Love, by John Bloom and Jim Atkinson, page 3

[beesy]

If Candy had accidentally killed her in an automobile accident, I can see where she would not be guilty (especially if she didn't flee the scene)... but the very fact that she did flee the scene in this case to me shows guilt, or culpability. I'm going to quote part of the description of Betty Gore's body: "Much of the blood was....black or ......mixed with some other fluid......The elbow had a cut so wide it appeared to be severed. The inside of the cut had turned into something black and shiny..........her lips were parted, showing her front teeth......And Betty's left eye was wide open......As to her right eye, she appeared not to have one. The entire right half of her face appeared to be gone." Self-defense? You decide
Source: Evidence of Love, by John Bloom and Jim Atkinson, page 73

[britgirl]

Wow...fascinating posts, so much information to think about. What a complex case.

[Mary456]

Hi everyone. I was just wondering, for those who believe Darlie is guilty- do you think she premeditated the murders, or was it spur of the moment? Did she decide to kill her boys- or did she just snap?

I don't think there's any doubt that she premediated it, if only for a short time. The screen was cut, and there was no human blood anywhere around the window, the frame, the screen, etc.

Considering the amount of blood shed in the family room and kitchen, an intruder could not have knifed three people & gotten out through that little opening in the screen without leaving a trace of blood evidence. Just doesn't happen unless...

Darlie cut the screen before she stabbed the boys. No muss, no fuss, no blood. That's the one piece of evidence that convinced me that she premeditated the murders.

[beesy]

James Cron (of Darlie Routier fame) was the guy who identified Candy's bloody fingerprint on the refrigerator in the laundry room, which led to her confession. Mary, I just finished the book and all Dr. Cron did was testify that the print was Candy's, along with other experts. Dr. Irving Stone processed the scene. She confessed to her attorney first, Crowder, and they conjured up the self-defense thingy. LE better be glad she did! The scene was completely contaminated. Neighbors, friends, cops off duty all wandering around. Twice a rookie cop picked up 2 important pieces of evidence, showed it to the Det. then had to show him where he'd found it! That goes to show you that a botched crime scene does not make a person innocent DARLIE!

[gemini666]

How does anyone know that Darin and Darlie argued that night?

Surely neither of them would have admitted to having a row, when it could be used against them? Did someone hear it?

[Jeana (DP)]

How does anyone know that Darin and Darlie argued that night?

Surely neither of them would have admitted to having a row, when it could be used against them? Did someone hear it?


Darlie's mother told me via email that they argued and she asked for a separation. It later was affirmed in an affidavit signed by Darin in one of the appellate briefs.

[HeartofTexas]

Did Darlie's mom by chance tell you what Darin's reaction to the request for separation was? If he agreed to it, I can see where Darlier would flip out and try to "pay him back"... but if he cried and begged her to stay, it's more difficult to see why she would have done what she did . I guess, too, it depends on whether she was sincere in asking for the separation (that is, moving forward with her life) or whether she did it to in some way manipulate Darin.

[Goody]

How does anyone know that Darin and Darlie argued that night?

Surely neither of them would have admitted to having a row, when it could be used against them? Did someone hear it?
Darlie said they had words in her police statement. She also said she'd been depressed that night.

[gemini666]

Thanks; I've just read one of the books (the only one I could get), by Don Davis.

I've also seen the Forensic Files programme.
I think she is guilty, but like others here, I find it incomprehensible that any mother could do that to her children.
The case didn't make the news in England, I only found out about it from the FF prog. and from reading on here.
Really interested now. Does anyone know if she has an appeal planned?

[Jeana (DP)]

Did Darlie's mom by chance tell you what Darin's reaction to the request for separation was? If he agreed to it, I can see where Darlier would flip out and try to "pay him back"... but if he cried and begged her to stay, it's more difficult to see why she would have done what she did . I guess, too, it depends on whether she was sincere in asking for the separation (that is, moving forward with her life) or whether she did it to in some way manipulate Darin.


All she said was that they had an argument and she asked for a separation. She then denied ever saying it and called me a liar for years and years. It was only when Darin's affidavit confirming it that people realized it was the Darlie's, not me, who was lying.

[HeartofTexas]

LOL! I guess lying runs in the family, doesn't it! When pressed against the wall, lie lie lie! Did this entire family meet at a Liars Convention?

Thanks, Jeana.

[beesy]

Thanks; I've just read one of the books (the only one I could get), by Don Davis.

I've also seen the Forensic Files programme.
I think she is guilty, but like others here, I find it incomprehensible that any mother could do that to her children.
The case didn't make the news in England, I only found out about it from the FF prog. and from reading on here.
Really interested now. Does anyone know if she has an appeal planned? Darlie was convicted in 1997, and has been filing appeal after appeal, so far no new trial and she's used them all up! She's asking for some DNA testing to be done, which is something different than an appeal Either way, the tests will just show she's guilty..so go ahead and do them Darlie! I think there's another woman ahead of her, but TX will get Darlie, none too soon.
You need to turn off your MomDar with this case. It's hard to separate your emotions as a mother from hers, but you just have to. Mothers do kill their children, all the time. So-called "closet" abuse happens daily and verbal abuse is out there too.

[deanws]

All she said was that they had an argument and she asked for a separation. She then denied ever saying it and called me a liar for years and years. It was only when Darin's affidavit confirming it that people realized it was the Darlie's, not me, who was lying.OMGosh! You knew her? If so, was she really as shallow and mixed up as what she portrayed ? Of course, I ask this all in your opinion.

[Jeana (DP)]

OMGosh! You knew her? If so, was she really as shallow and mixed up as what she portrayed ? Of course, I ask this all in your opinion.


Darlin, you may want to read the whole thread. :) :) :) :)

[deanws]

Darlin, you may want to read the whole thread. :) :) :) :):angel: Enough said.

[Jeana (DP)]

:angel: Enough said.


Good because I don't want to give anyone the wrong impression. I do NOT know anyone in this family.

[Mary456]

Mary, I just finished the book and all Dr. Cron did was testify that the print was Candy's, along with other experts. Dr. Irving Stone processed the scene. She confessed to her attorney first, Crowder, and they conjured up the self-defense thingy.

You're right, beesy! I had forgotten that Candy confessed to her lawyer.

Jim Cron matched the bloody thumbprint to Candy, so that's what sticks in my mind. He started to tell the jury about this during Darlie's trial, but Mulder cut him off at the knees, lol!

[Goody]

Thanks; I've just read one of the books (the only one I could get), by Don Davis.

I've also seen the Forensic Files programme.
I think she is guilty, but like others here, I find it incomprehensible that any mother could do that to her children.
The case didn't make the news in England, I only found out about it from the FF prog. and from reading on here.
Really interested now. Does anyone know if she has an appeal planned?
Darlie has already been through all the state appeals and been denied them. Now she is preparing a federal appeal. They could file it any time. When they do, we will know what the grounds are.

[beesy]

Darlie has already been through all the state appeals and been denied them. Now she is preparing a federal appeal. They could file it any time. When they do, we will know what the grounds are. Oh poo, she still has her federal appeals? How many of those does she get? Is that how she's doing the DNA thing?

[cami]

Thanks; I've just read one of the books (the only one I could get), by Don Davis.

I've also seen the Forensic Files programme.
I think she is guilty, but like others here, I find it incomprehensible that any mother could do that to her children.
The case didn't make the news in England, I only found out about it from the FF prog. and from reading on here.
Really interested now. Does anyone know if she has an appeal planned?

Darlie has several levels of appeal. She's lost her state appeals and now moves on to appeals at the federal (crown to you and I) level.

[cami]

Darlie has already been through all the state appeals and been denied them. Now she is preparing a federal appeal. They could file it any time. When they do, we will know what the grounds are.

LOl, Goody looks like we are on line at the same time. I just posted the same thing, LOL.

[Goody]

LOl, Goody looks like we are on line at the same time. I just posted the same thing, LOL.
Well, you know how it is....great minds think alike. hahahahahah!

[Goody]

Oh poo, she still has her federal appeals? How many of those does she get? Is that how she's doing the DNA thing?
As many as her attys can find grounds for, I think. Jeana can better answer that one.

The DNA thing is being or was being handled by a lower Texas court. Now where it is at from there, I am not sure. I suppose it could be appealed to the federal level at some point, but I am not sure on the details there. Again, Jeana needs to jump in here.

[Jeana (DP)]

As many as her attys can find grounds for, I think. Jeana can better answer that one.

The DNA thing is being or was being handled by a lower Texas court. Now where it is at from there, I am not sure. I suppose it could be appealed to the federal level at some point, but I am not sure on the details there. Again, Jeana needs to jump in here.


What DNA????? I haven't heard about anything to even test? Unless there is some DNA that doesn't belong to anyone in the house, that's a dead end. The appeal will focus on the alleged deficiencies and errors in the lower courts, so expect to see just about everything in there beginning with the errors in the transript.

[beesy]

What DNA????? I haven't heard about anything to even test? Unless there is some DNA that doesn't belong to anyone in the house, that's a dead end. The appeal will focus on the alleged deficiencies and errors in the lower courts, so expect to see just about everything in there beginning with the errors in the transript. I don't really know, but they discuss it on the homepage of justicefordarlie. I just skimmed it and couldn't find what they are testing. Does she get an unlimited amount of federal appeals?

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't really know, but they discuss it on the homepage of justicefordarlie. I just skimmed it and couldn't find what they are testing. Does she get an unlimited amount of federal appeals?


No, she doesn't. Here's a website:

If the prisoner loses in the Court of Criminal Appeals, he/she may then appeal the case to the following courts:
the Texas Supreme Court;
the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals; and finally to
the United States Supreme Court.
Clemency

When the entire appeals process has been exhausted, the Governor of the State of Texas still may have a limited power to grant clemency to the prisoner. In capital cases, the Governor has the constitutional authority to grant an offender one 30-day reprieve of a scheduled execution without a recommendation from the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles. Upon recommendation from the Board, the Governor may grant one or more reprieves in a capital case for any period of time that does not exceed the period recommended by the Board members4. If the prisoner submits a timely request for a reprieve of execution, the Board must determine, by majority vote, whether to recommend to the Governor that a reprieve be granted. Similarly, if a death row inmate files a timely petition to the Board from for a commutation of sentence to a lesser punishment, such as life imprisonment, the Board will vote on whether to recommend the commutation to the Governor5.

http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/vlibrary/outlines/deathpenprint.html

[Mary456]

The appeal will focus on the alleged deficiencies and errors in the lower courts, so expect to see just about everything in there beginning with the errors in the transript.

The transcript errors were already ruled on in Darlie's direct appeal. Judge Francis rejected that appeal, so I think it's a dead issue which can't be brought up again.

At this point - Habeas Corpus appeal - Darlie's lawyers have to fabricate (lol!) new evidence that wasn't presented during the trial. That's why they got Darlene Potter to come out of the woodwork six years later to say she saw two suspicious men nearby on 6/6/96. It didn't work, nor did Darin's claim - again, six years later - that he had an insurance scam going.

Darlie doesn't have a prayer, she really doesn't. I wouldn't be surprised to see her sentence carried out in the next two years.

[Mary456]

[QUOTE=beesy]I don't really know, but they discuss it on the homepage of justicefordarlie. I just skimmed it and couldn't find what they are testing. QUOTE]

Hi, Beesy. Darlie's lawyers demanded further testing of the bloody partial fingerprint on the sofa table, as well as the bloody partial prints on the utility room door. The prosecution says they offered that evidence for retesting in September 2002 by an agreed-upon expert, but the defense didn't accept the offer. Then, in October 2002, the court legally granted the defense access to the evidence, and they still didn't follow through.

Wonder why? Ahahahaaa!

[HeartofTexas]

Mary, the next 2 years would be my estimate also. We do it quick here in Texas.

[Mary456]

Mary, the next 2 years would be my estimate also. We do it quick here in Texas.

Yep, Heart, I think it's going to go very quickly from this point on. Darlie's best chance rested on the errors in the transcript, but that's all bye-bye.

Btw, not to get off topic, but I read about your sister and her son on another forum here at WS. I must say, you're quite a woman to take on the responsibilities you've accepted. Gives us all hope for a better world.

[Cowgirl]

Not quick enough, but at least Texas does it eventually! Just out of curiosity I checked to see how long they spend on death row before being executed. The last execution on July 28, the guy was there a little under seven years. Of the next ones coming up, they have been waiting:

August executions - 16 years and 10 years, black and white

September executions - 17 years and 19 years, both black

October executions - 12 years and 6 years, black and Hispanic

November executions - 8 years and 6 years, Hispanic and white

And of course, I guess some of those could be put off further too. It varies a lot, doesn't it? I put the races there to see if there was any trend and I don't see one.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/scheduledexecutions.htm

There is info about those already gone too.

[beesy]

[QUOTE=Mary456
[QUOTE]
Hi, Beesy. Darlie's lawyers demanded further testing of the bloody partial fingerprint on the sofa table, as well as the bloody partial prints on the utility room door. The prosecution says they offered that evidence for retesting in September 2002 by an agreed-upon expert, but the defense didn't accept the offer. Then, in October 2002, the court legally granted the defense access to the evidence, and they still didn't follow through.

:laugh: Wonder why? Ahahahaaa! Hey Mary, the Darlies continue to say that the bloody prints found on the utility room door and table don't match anyone in the family or in the house that night. Is this true, or have they not been tested? It's so hard to know what's real and what is a Chris lie. I know you've read alot of the trial transcripts so I figure you know, or anybody else jump in also.

[beesy]

Mary, the next 2 years would be my estimate also. We do it quick here in Texas. Yeah I saw a stand up comic and he said that TX is putting in an express lane:dance:

[beesy]

[QUOTE]Not quick enough, but at least Texas does it eventually! Just out of curiosity I checked to see how long they spend on death row before being executed. The last execution on July 28, the guy was there a little under seven years. Clock's ticking though, she's been on death row since 1997! Tick Tock.....soon, Darlie, soon.

[Goody]

Yep, Heart, I think it's going to go very quickly from this point on. Darlie's best chance rested on the errors in the transcript, but that's all bye-bye.


The transcript errors cannot be appealed to the federal level? Whynot?

[Goody]

[QUOTE]
:laugh: Hey Mary, the Darlies continue to say that the bloody prints found on the utility room door and table don't match anyone in the family or in the house that night. Is this true, or have they not been tested? It's so hard to know what's real and what is a Chris lie. I know you've read alot of the trial transcripts so I figure you know, or anybody else jump in also.
The family has been ruled out, although I don't know if they tested anyone other than the immediate family (Darlie, Darin, and the kids). The partial print is smudged so that a positive ID cannot be made, but some people can be eliminated. I think there are three patterns in fingerprints. One of them is the whorl. (Forgotten what they call the other two.) The smudged print in question has a whorl pattern as does one of Devon's fingers and Darlie's ring finger. We know that Devon wasn't up and running around the room after he was attacked, so whose print do you think it might be?

[beesy]

[QUOTE] No, she doesn't. Here's a website:

If the prisoner loses in the Court of Criminal Appeals, he/she may then appeal the case to the following courts:
the Texas Supreme Court;
the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals; and finally to
the United States Supreme Court.
Clemency
I'm still confused about this part. I understand the clemency at the end though. So how many chances in the Court of Criminal Appeals itself, 1 chance? Then next is the TX Supreme Ct, 1 chance? then the US Circuit Court of Appeals, 1 chance ? Then the US Supreme Ct, 1 chance?
Where is Darlie as far as appeals now, finished with the state correct?
Life in prison without parole would really bother Darlie, death row is alot better than being in gen. pop. but, I don't see her getting anything but the BIG ONE!

[Mary456]

The transcript errors cannot be appealed to the federal level? Whynot?

Because the transcript issue was already argued in her direct appeal, and Judge Francis rejected it. Except for a small portion, the entire transcript was reconstructed with audiotapes.

Theoretically, I suppose it could be argued again at the Federal level, but realistically, I don't see it happening.

[beesy]

The family has been ruled out, although I don't know if they tested anyone other than the immediate family (Darlie, Darin, and the kids). The partial print is smudged so that a positive ID cannot be made, but some people can be eliminated. I think there are three patterns in fingerprints. One of them is the whorl. (Forgotten what they call the other two.) The smudged print in question has a whorl pattern as does one of Devon's fingers and Darlie's ring finger. We know that Devon wasn't up and running around the room after he was attacked, so whose print do you think it might be? This is troubling to me. It takes only one unidentified bloody print in a key area of the crime scene to support the intruder theory :waitasec:

[Cassata11]

Well, if you make any break thrus, please share it because we are still trying to sort it all out. :confused:
Ain't that the truth!

I spent yet another day reading closing arguments. I wanted to know if "planning" was part of the closing statements. Nope not that word! Just "staging".

How I would love to know actually how often Darlie slept with the boys downstairs.

(if it was me)..Depressed, tired, stressed, on anti-depressants, drinking wine...I wouldn't ask my kids to stay up while I crash on the couch...

I need a nap..my eyes hurt from the faded print on the transcripts!

Have a good weekend!

Cassata :p

[Goody]

Hey everybody, go to the link below and vote for Kaysar (unless you are already a Big Brother fan and have ideas of your own). I would just love it if you would. I am trying to get him back into the house just to tick off his enemies, who singled him out in the beginning and were quite mean to him.

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/bigbrother6/_polls/amc_poll.shtml (http://www.cbs.com/primetime/bigbrother6/_polls/amc_poll.shtml)

[Goody]

This is troubling to me. It takes only one unidentified bloody print in a key area of the crime scene to support the intruder theory :waitasec:
Don't be too troubled by it. It is not unusual not to find any identifiable fingerprints at all at a crime scene. Remember this one is only a partial and it cannot be ID'd. The fact that it indicates the bearer had small hands and was most likely an adult female and has a whorl pattern at least similar to Darlie's ring finger is what is truly important about it. She can't be ruled out. To me, that says a lot more than any possibilty it might have belonged to some unknown midget.

[beesy]

Don't be too troubled by it. It is not unusual not to find any identifiable fingerprints at all at a crime scene. Remember this one is only a partial and it cannot be ID'd. The fact that it indicates the bearer had small hands and was most likely an adult female and has a whorl pattern at least similar to Darlie's ring finger is what is truly important about it. She can't be ruled out. To me, that says a lot more than any possibilty it might have belonged to some unknown midget. The bloody print on the UR door and table are both smudged partials?

[Goody]

[QUOTE=Mary456]Because the transcript issue was already argued in her direct appeal, and Judge Francis rejected it. Except for a small portion, the entire transcript was reconstructed with audiotapes.

[QUOTE]

But the direct appeal is only state level. Why can't it be challenged again in the federal court? Did she waive the right to do that for some reason? I wish Jeana would weigh in here.

[Goody]

The bloody print on the UR door and table are both smudged partials?
Yep. They did find one of Darin's on the door but it was not in blood and could have been left anytime previous to the murders. That is my understanding of it.

[beesy]

Yep. They did find one of Darin's on the door but it was not in blood and could have been left anytime previous to the murders. That is my understanding of it. Ok, thank you....True Grit was on TV the other night, thought about you...

[Cowgirl]

I'm still confused about this part. I understand the clemency at the end though. So how many chances in the Court of Criminal Appeals itself, 1 chance? Then next is the TX Supreme Ct, 1 chance? then the US Circuit Court of Appeals, 1 chance ? Then the US Supreme Ct, 1 chance?
Where is Darlie as far as appeals now, finished with the state correct?
Life in prison without parole would really bother Darlie, death row is alot better than being in gen. pop. but, I don't see her getting anything but the BIG ONE!Death Row is better than Gen Pop? I am curious why you would think so? They also didn't have LWOP when she got sentenced so it is not an option. Life is, but she won't get it. Even with clemency, the state will try her for the other child.

Mountainview and Gatesville are campus style pens with cubicles and single cells both. Gen pop walks to mess, walks to work, has a bit of normal movement. Death Row stays on the cellblock, cannot have a job, cannot go to school, just sit and wait to die. How would that be better?

[lauriej]

Death Row is better than Gen Pop? I am curious why you would think so? They also didn't have LWOP when she got sentenced so it is not an option. Life is, but she won't get it. Even with clemency, the state will try her for the other child.

Mountainview and Gatesville are campus style pens with cubicles and single cells both. Gen pop walks to mess, walks to work, has a bit of normal movement. Death Row stays on the cellblock, cannot have a job, cannot go to school, just sit and wait to die. How would that be better?
.........if her life were in danger, threatened etc by the other gen. pop. inmates.( ie: jeffrey dalmer)........then she's safer on DR........

...although personally, i can't wait until it's her turn in texas........

[beesy]

Death Row is better than Gen Pop? I am curious why you would think so? They also didn't have LWOP when she got sentenced so it is not an option. Life is, but she won't get it. Even with clemency, the state will try her for the other child.

Mountainview and Gatesville are campus style pens with cubicles and single cells both. Gen pop walks to mess, walks to work, has a bit of normal movement. Death Row stays on the cellblock, cannot have a job, cannot go to school, just sit and wait to die. How would that be better?as lauriej said, Death Row is safer and you are with fewer other women. Why would Darlie want a job anyway? I doubt Darlie likes to walk much either. Things just aren't as icky on Death Row, besides the fact that you're waiting to die, of course LOL, you have less people to put up with. Gen Pop is filled with the type of people Darlie has never been around before. Not that she's been around Death Row inmates, but there are fewer to adjust to.

She obviously has access to hair care products and makeup. From what I've read a bond is formed with the others on Death Row. And I was just goofing around about her getting LWOP, she'll die, I know she will. And I know with clemency she'll be charged with Devon's murder.

[Cowgirl]

as lauriej said, Death Row is safer and you are with fewer other women. Why would Darlie want a job anyway? I doubt Darlie likes to walk much either. Things just aren't as icky on Death Row, besides the fact that you're waiting to die, of course LOL, you have less people to put up with. Gen Pop is filled with the type of people Darlie has never been around before. Not that she's been around Death Row inmates, but there are fewer to adjust to.

She obviously has access to hair care products and makeup. From what I've read a bond is formed with the others on Death Row. And I was just goofing around about her getting LWOP, she'll die, I know she will. And I know with clemency she'll be charged with Devon's murder. I have spoken with TDC inmates and I have an old friend who was in Gatesville three times, the last time for 3 years. She worked in the factory there where they make uniforms for the women as well as drapes and linens and such for state hospitals and another time she worked in the laundry which she hated because it was so hot with no A/C. She said they had a beauty school there and that you could have your hair cut or permed there but that they didn't allow you to change the color (I guess for escape reasons or something.) She said her day was filled with going to work, going to mess hall, going back to work, going to dinner, going to school in the evening. She would do just about anything to get out of the dorm or cell (and she was in both at different times.) She would drop a form for church, the doctor (even if she had no reason), the dentist--anything to get out of the cell. Weekends were tough she said unless she had a visit and they didn't have outside rec every weekend, just now and then. During the week it was just like the free world except you didn't get to go home at night, you went back to your cell or dorm cubicle.

When I asked Debbie about the danger, she said that women's prison is nothing like men's as far as danger goes. She made friends easily though, so it could be different for a baby murderer. But Debbie was in there with Lucinda Stout, a mom murderer, and several women who were doing long terms for baby murdering, one got 25 years for starving her baby to death and another got 99 years for killing her baby, but they didn't do that much time before the law changed back in the 90's to the minimum 40.

But on death row, you sit in the cell all day. No job. No school. TV if you want to watch what everyone else wants to watch. Writing letters is all they do. They can drop a form to go to the Law Library, but I don't know how often they get to go. Other than that, they sit. Even church--the minister comes to them and they stay in their cells. With cellmates on either side, you better like them or else you have no one to talk to. Talk about stir crazy! As far as cosmetics, you can buy Maybelline products on commissary, but TDC does not allow any gift packages or anything but publications from the publisher or yarn from a craft company. Shampoo and such are very limited--not much selection, but they have it if you have the money.

If it were I, I would much prefer to go to a job and school than to sit and look at the same cellmates all day, every day. I think I would rather be dead. You are, anyway, on death row. You just haven't lain down yet.

[Dani_T]

But on death row, you sit in the cell all day. No job. No school. TV if you want to watch what everyone else wants to watch. Writing letters is all they do. They can drop a form to go to the Law Library, but I don't know how often they get to go. Other than that, they sit. Even church--the minister comes to them and they stay in their cells. With cellmates on either side, you better like them or else you have no one to talk to. Talk about stir crazy! As far as cosmetics, you can buy Maybelline products on commissary, but TDC does not allow any gift packages or anything but publications from the publisher or yarn from a craft company. Shampoo and such are very limited--not much selection, but they have it if you have the money.

I read that Darlie spends her days in a lounge-room with the other DR female inmates sewing quilts. And she looks pretty spiffed up in those photos on JFD.com

[Goody]

I read that Darlie spends her days in a lounge-room with the other DR female inmates sewing quilts. And she looks pretty spiffed up in those photos on JFD.com
I don't think that is correct, Dani. Death row is secluded from the rest of the prison and they probably have some lounge time, but it would never be most of the day. Someone might know her schedule, but I would think it wouldn't be more than once or twice a week for a specific time period. It sure would be interesting to learn what the other death row inmates think of her though. If they are spending any regular time together, after 9 years, they should have thoughts of their own about her.

[Goody]

as lauriej said, Death Row is safer and you are with fewer other women. Why would Darlie want a job anyway? I doubt Darlie likes to walk much either. Things just aren't as icky on Death Row, besides the fact that you're waiting to die, of course LOL, you have less people to put up with. Gen Pop is filled with the type of people Darlie has never been around before. Not that she's been around Death Row inmates, but there are fewer to adjust to.

She obviously has access to hair care products and makeup. From what I've read a bond is formed with the others on Death Row. And I was just goofing around about her getting LWOP, she'll die, I know she will. And I know with clemency she'll be charged with Devon's murder.
Well, Beesy, I imagine she was given special permission for those photos. I doubt if she runs around the prison or even her unit looking like that.

[Cowgirl]

I read that Darlie spends her days in a lounge-room with the other DR female inmates sewing quilts. And she looks pretty spiffed up in those photos on JFD.comWhen inmates have visits, their visitor is encouraged to purchase overpriced Polaroids from someone at the prison who takes the pictures and makes a profit. The only reason for them to dress up and do their hair and makeup is really for a visit, so that is why she would look that way. They often put a background thing behind the inmate to make it look like she is in some nice place instead of behind bars--usually for the inmate's kids, but then, Darlie took care of that problem. Her boys wouldn't be seeing her at all.

Death Row has a TV room called a Day room right outside the cells. If Darlie goes there then she is not in protective custody and can sit and crochet or knit or quilt. That is it. Many indigent inmates make money making afgans and quilts. Ever since they stopped the inmates from smoking in TDC it might not be so bad in the day room. My friend Debbie used to complain about the smoke filled TV room in her dorm which kept her from watching TV.

I would die of boredom, if that is possible.

[Dani_T]

I don't think that is correct, Dani. Death row is secluded from the rest of the prison and they probably have some lounge time, but it would never be most of the day. Someone might know her schedule, but I would think it wouldn't be more than once or twice a week for a specific time period. It sure would be interesting to learn what the other death row inmates think of her though. If they are spending any regular time together, after 9 years, they should have thoughts of their own about her.

I'm pretty sure they said something about it on one of the media interviews maybe. I'll try and find it.

[beesy]

Well, Beesy, I imagine she was given special permission for those photos. I doubt if she runs around the prison or even her unit looking like that. well, of course she doesn't run around looking like that all the time. For one thing, there's no running around, as Cowgirl pointed out. LOL The remark I made about DR being better than GP was just a flip remark about our sweet Darlie and her living conditions. Not like she's in a concentration camp. Of course prison is boring and mindless. I don't think DR is Disney World. Wonder if we're paying for cable?
Another thing, there's a website, can't remember the name, but there was a story about it on CNN. It has inmate ads for those kooks who want to "date" an inmate. Susan Smith is actually on there. She said some of her fave things are rainbows and Mickey Mouse. The inmates do not have access to the Net, I'm surprised they don't, but there is a snail mail addy to contact them. Supposedly Susan Smith's ad caused so much trouble that the webmaster took the contact addy off, but her ad is still there. Those are the kinds of things I'm talking about. Prison life might suck, but as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't suck enough!