Geocaching

[Wayne]

One thing I traced Duncan's JETD63 login to was a geocaching website where people join in on treasure hunts by GPS. www.geocaching.com (http://www.geocaching.com/). It could be a pedophile's dream for hiding a child and having others pick the cache up.

He had two entries in his Travel Bug cache ... both dated in June 2005.

One travel cache mentioned some other user traveling between North Carolina and North Dakota, and another entry mentioned some user traveling between Minnesota and North Dakota.

I am seeing the users traveled by JEEP (JEEP TRAVEL BUGS or WHITE JEEP TRAVEL BUGS). Wasn't he found in a RED JEEP?

I wonder if Duncan (JETD63) had another login...

Gawd I pray LE has their experts on this site!

JETD63 hid one cache in Fargo ND last fall and lots of people visited it, two with 6-yo children along (YES, users actually mentioned the child's age). A camera was there for taking the photo of the person or people who find the cache and then take something from the cache and replace it with some other token.

I clicked on one photo and all of my Internet Explorer windows closed.

This is interesting and I'm looking more.

[annie mae]

Wayne. You have found the most intersting information:clap: maybe you should alert the FBI? or ??? I am learning fast about these sick individuals who prey on children. And where in the world does this man get his monies to cruise around the States??? it costs a plenty to visit or even live in the Florida Keys, or even to run up and down the road:confused: These people might be buying children or using them in movies or ???? I can only imagine what things they do with these kids. Is that where the drugs come into play??? Our Government needs to act on this out-of-control situation before more children become victims. Keep us all posted on your great find. ta ta

[annie mae]

wayne, do have a password for JetD63? is it Duncan? I have already seen one boy in a picture, big smile, having been found? This is a trip.ta ta:eek:

[Wayne]

Wayne. You have found the most intersting information:clap: maybe you should alert the FBI? or ??? I am learning fast about these sick individuals who prey on children. And where in the world does this man get his monies to cruise around the States??? it costs a plenty to visit or even live in the Florida Keys, or even to run up and down the road:confused: These people might be buying children or using them in movies or ???? I can only imagine what things they do with these kids. Is that where the drugs come into play??? Our Government needs to act on this out-of-control situation before more children become victims. Keep us all posted on your great find. ta ta
The fact Duncan lawyered-up tells me he is buying time for his creeps to clean up.

I shall forward the link and info to the tip line ... but I sense I need some kind of definitive link to Shasta / Dylan before I am taken seriously.

IMO, I think that Duncan is the tip of this iceberg - but not the foundation. He likely was a member and other people (perps) led him to Shasta and maybe Dylan. And he'll never voluntarily reveal who those other people are.

But looking at this geocaching web site, it is unbelievable. A map / clues to a cache ... people remove one item and replace it with another token.

A great way to conceal and get rid of incriminating evidence or even passing a child around in broad daylight. And a great insight into his thinking of posting clues is carried over to the fifthnail blog (or visa versa).

[Linda104]

Geocaching is just a game. The tokens that are traded are stickers, plastic jewelry, happy meal type toys. The White Jeep travel bugs are toy cars with an ID tag. They are not actual jeeps. People pick them up, travel and place them into a new cache.

His travel bugs were disposable cameras. People take their picture and then pass the travel bug along. Duncan himself was not traveling to these places, just the camera through different people's hands.

[englishleigh]

I hope they are looking for Dylan or his remains in North Dakota...Fargo, esp. Someone else in Fargo may be holding Dylan. Just a thought....?

[caryatid]

wayne, do have a password for JetD63? is it Duncan? I have already seen one boy in a picture, big smile, having been found? This is a trip.ta ta:eek:
Didn't he work in computer encryption? If so, he would know that his own name was too simple a password for anything.

[annie mae]

Wayne. I could not agree with you more. In reality we don't know anything new about this case except for the fact that Shasta is alive and well, Thank God for that:D Bless her heart. I still have my candles going for the children even tho they are expressing that Dylan is not with us anymore:( Shasta has a good support system at hand so I believe she will excel in any reabilitation they may give her. This idiot, Duncan, I thought liked boys, not girls, what is up with that??????:confused: And how did he wind-up with Shasta. I used to have faith in the FBI and their investigative facilities, where is the evidence??? and what does it reveal???? I would imagine the FBI is already on his site plus aren't there other agencies that patrol the Net for this sort of stuff????? We need to ck this out, you already have a good start. ta ta

[close_enough]

One thing I traced Duncan's JETD63 login to was a geocaching website where people join in on treasure hunts by GPS. www.geocaching.com (http://www.geocaching.com/). It could be a pedophile's dream for hiding a child and having others pick the cache up.

He had two entries in his Travel Bug cache ... both dated in June 2005.

One travel cache mentioned some other user traveling between North Carolina and North Dakota, and another entry mentioned some user traveling between Minnesota and North Dakota.

I am seeing the users traveled by JEEP (JEEP TRAVEL BUGS or WHITE JEEP TRAVEL BUGS). Wasn't he found in a RED JEEP?

I wonder if Duncan (JETD63) had another login...

Gawd I pray LE has their experts on this site!

JETD63 hid one cache in Fargo ND last fall and lots of people visited it, two with 6-yo children along (YES, users actually mentioned the child's age). A camera was there for taking the photo of the person or people who find the cache and then take something from the cache and replace it with some other token.

I clicked on one photo and all of my Internet Explorer windows closed.

This is interesting and I'm looking more.

i really don't understand all of this, but if he made 2 entries in the month of June, then he had access, somewhere, to a computer, after the murders...he wasn't camping out in the wilderness, the entire time.....

[Linda104]

He did not make the entries in June. Other people found his "cache" which is like a treasure box, and made entries saying "I found it". In the case of his travel bugs, it was people saying "I found it here and I'll pass it along."

[close_enough]

He did not make the entries in June. Other people found his "cache" which is like a treasure box, and made entries saying "I found it". In the case of his travel bugs, it was people saying "I found it here and I'll pass it along."

aaah...ok, thanks....see?, i don't really understand all this geocache thing...

[annie mae]

Thank you for telling us about the Game. But I do think that Wayne had a great idea about how these horrid people (should not even call them people:silenced:) could hide information or transport children thru something as innocent as a game. It makes me ill to even think of such but I would not put anything past (people) that are that evil. ta ta annie

[Wayne]

He did not make the entries in June. Other people found his "cache" which is like a treasure box, and made entries saying "I found it". In the case of his travel bugs, it was people saying "I found it here and I'll pass it along."
First off, you got the right theory amongst child predators - I found it here and I'll pass it along.

Looking at user profiles, I believe it is possible Duncan may have had more than one user name. Looking at jetd63, I see two other users. One from the Tacoma Washington area and one from Fargo ND area. And a third that does a lot of traveling with no location specified.

IMO, when a cache is found in Washington State and transported to South Carolina at a time when Shasta and Dylan were missing and JETD63 was involved in planting the cache originally, I'd say the circumstances warrant a closer look by LE because the cache may have been a child.

[mysteriew]

On another thread someone copied an entry that said something like NE1222.6 mi. from coordinates of your home. Left some kids stuff. It had a date of like 05/29.
In his travels Duncan hit a lot of states, and they weren't all in a straight line. He was in Fargo, N.D. (home), Missouri, Wyoming and Idaho just to name a few off the top of my head.
When the kids were kidnapped presumably they were taken on 0515 without too much clothing. Could Duncan have been arranging for geo-chache drops for items he needed (kids clothing for one).
And all of the traveling to the different states could have been to pick up drops made by various geo-cache buddies?

[Wayne]

Thank you for telling us about the Game. But I do think that Wayne had a great idea about how these horrid people (should not even call them people:silenced:) could hide information or transport children thru something as innocent as a game. It makes me ill to even think of such but I would not put anything past (people) that are that evil. ta ta annie
Thank you, Annie Mae.

You got my idea - that these horrid people (I call them animals:mad: ) could hide information or transport children thru something as innocent as a game.

Plus his postings and timings are interesting. They give insight to the fifthnail blog site (or visa versa).

[Wayne]

On another thread someone copied an entry that said something like NE1222.6 mi. from coordinates of your home. Left some kids stuff. It had a date of like 05/29.
In his travels Duncan hit a lot of states, and they weren't all in a straight line. He was in Fargo, N.D. (home), Missouri, Wyoming and Idaho just to name a few off the top of my head.
When the kids were kidnapped presumably they were taken on 0515 without too much clothing. Could Duncan have been arranging for geo-chache drops for items he needed (kids clothing for one).
And all of the traveling to the different states could have been to pick up drops made by various geo-cache buddies?
mysteriew - you too are getting my point. Could Duncan have been arranging for geo-chache drops for items he needed (kids clothing for one)? He could have arranged in advance ... and he could have used CP photos as payment.

[Linda104]

I think the fact he was in Tacoma, Washington in December 26, 2004, should be investigated. A search to see if any children went missing at that time would be warranted.

Also on the other thread where it lists all his "kin". That's very useful information.

I applaud you for finding both of those bits of information.

I do find it unnerving that the only type of caches Duncan had were photo type caches. The thought of people taking pictures of themselves and their children and then Duncan getting ahold of those pictures at a later date is horrific.

As far as the Jeep Travel Bugs, Groundspeak.com issues them. One year they were yellow. This year they are white. You purchase them from groundspeak and them hide them in your cache. It is just a strange coincidence that Duncan was found in a Jeep as well.

[annie mae]

You know this "game" would be an idea way to transport alot of things, FBI should have this info. What a way to stay on the move, remain invisible ( so to speak) and make money! lot'z of money. He is suppose to be so dang smart, he would think this game is a piece of cake, plus he loves it, thinking of the Police, catch me if you can I am smarter than you. This animal is toast somewhere down the line, the FBI had better fit this animal with a vest:mad: I am going to get in that web page and go fishing. Just my :twocents: ta ta, annie

[Linda104]

Law enforcement is aware of this game. Many geocachers are law enforcement individuals.

But the bits of information I listed in my last post should be passed along in my opinion.

[Wayne]

I think the fact he was in Tacoma, Washington in December 26, 2004, should be investigated. A search to see if any children went missing at that time would be warranted.

Also on the other thread where it lists all his "kin". That's very useful information.

I applaud you for finding both of those bits of information.

I do find it unnerving that the only type of caches Duncan had were photo type caches. The thought of people taking pictures of themselves and their children and then Duncan getting ahold of those pictures at a later date is horrific.

As far as the Jeep Travel Bugs, Groundspeak.com issues them. One year they were yellow. This year they are white. You purchase them from groundspeak and them hide them in your cache. It is just a strange coincidence that Duncan was found in a Jeep as well.
And once posted on the geocache community, Duncan could trace them via GPS coordinates if they were posted. He could dress as any authority figure and have immediate trust of a child - and even use the photo to help him gain a chil's trust, to have the child accompany Duncan to somewhere private.

IMO, GPS has a lot of good uses. Geocaching looks fun and innocent. Just be careful who you give information to. One does not want to reveal too much information.

[Linda104]

I have no doubt that Duncan could use geocaching in sinister ways. The whole internet could be resourceful for him. He could find teenager's blogs and hunt down their home address. There are endless possibilities. I was just trying to respectfully explain a few of the facts about geocaching.

[Wayne]

Law enforcement is aware of this game. Many geocachers are law enforcement individuals.
IMO I bet LE is focusing on their immediate family / hobby activities. Not on LE cases. Of course if they come across something phony looking, I'm sure they'd act. BUT that is the problem with Geocaching - it looks so innocent. Yet, IMO in the hands of a perp like Duncan, he can twist it to help his serve his purpose - and help his demons. To act on Duncan's cache, one would need to link JETD63 to Duncan, a level-III Registered Sex Offender (most likely to reoffend).

[CaliKid]

If Duncan was into child-swapping (just a suggestion), could Dylan have been one of the finds?

[annie mae]

thank-you Linda for your post informing about the "game" and what it is about. I am glad that LE is aware of this and hope they can keep an eye on these animals if indeed they might use this "game" for a hunting ground. And a RED JEEP at that:waitasec: ta ta, annie just my:twocents: worth

[Linda104]

I don't believe Dylan could be one of the finds, at least under this ID.

Duncan hasn't hid any geocaches since December 5, 2004. He hasn't found any geocaches since December 26, 2004. His last visit to geocaching.com using that ID was Sunday, April 03, 2005.

Apparently a relative of Duncan's "SpyderSByte" is also a geocacher. He hasn't hidden a geocache since 2001, released a travel bug since 2003, or found a geocache since June 16, 2003. However, his last visit to geocaching.com using that ID was Saturday, June 04, 2005.

[pamlet]

mysteriew - you too are getting my point. Could Duncan have been arranging for geo-chache drops for items he needed (kids clothing for one)? He could have arranged in advance ... and he could have used CP photos as payment.
But why go through the whole geocache thing?

There are two things I can think of that wouldn't suggest that it wouldn't be a good idea..

1. The geo cache containers are generally small in order to hide it - so it couldn't contain much.

2. They would REALLY run the risk of someone else taking the things.

Now - I do believe that he (Duncan) was a geocacher - I still can't figure out how it would tie into his other "pursuits" .. Geocachers I've met tend to be "nerds".. generally kind of a computer geek crossed with people who love the outdoors. Lots of different types tho' - retired folks, families, etc.

[Linda104]

Geocachers I've met tend to be "nerds".. generally kind of a computer geek crossed with people who love the outdoors.

Gee thanks. :razz:

Just kidding. :D

[pamlet]

Gee thanks. :razz:

Just kidding. :D
I should have prefaced it with I've done it a bit... and my son too.. (nerd is somewhat of a term of affection in my family....)

It disturbs me that such "perv" as Duncan could be doing something so "normal".. but I guess that's the way they manage to stay under the radar so long... :(

[mysteriew]

I don't believe Dylan could be one of the finds, at least under this ID.

Duncan hasn't hid any geocaches since December 5, 2004. He hasn't found any geocaches since December 26, 2004. His last visit to geocaching.com using that ID was Sunday, April 03, 2005.

Apparently a relative of Duncan's "SpyderSByte" is also a geocacher. He hasn't hidden a geocache since 2001, released a travel bug since 2003, or found a geocache since June 16, 2003. However, his last visit to geocaching.com using that ID was Saturday, June 04, 2005.

Is there any way of finding out where "SpyderSByte" if from?

[Linda104]

Is there any way of finding out where "SpyderSByte" if from?

You can just tell he's in Washington. His location he has listed as "Spyders Den".

[mysteriew]

You can just tell he's in Washington. His location he has listed as "Spyders Den".

OK thanks Linda

[BobF]

hmm, very interesting, it seems to fall into something else I found on the topic in which someone references spiddy. I am going ot have to to take another look at that geocaching website.

[MidnightMyst]

Never underestimate the FBI!!! I aint say they are all that...but I aint saying they aint either :) LOL :angel:

[JenMom]

Is there any way of finding out where "SpyderSByte" if from?Check out the thread about Big Al. There is mention of the ID of Spyder or Spiddy over here.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25716

[IdahoSpud]

Since the perv is into geocaching and owns a GPS unit, LE should check it to see what waypoints he has recorded in it, he may have pinpointed the exact spot of Dylan, so he can revisit it later in some sick reminder of his horrible cfime.

[BobF]

Anyone see http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=c3c77004-ad8d-4ddb-bb2e-731f5edeb587

Here is some information I found interesting:

I am a Scottish Warrior, from the Duncan clan. The children of the clan have drifted apart. these children, while blood kin, barely know of each others existence. You can help by moving me as close as possible to each child.


The six are; Susan of Enid, OK.
Cheri of Centerville, GA.
Teena of Poulsbo, WA.
Jet of Fargo, ND.
Bruce of Puyallup, WA.
Jason of Tacoma, WA.

Here is one of Jetd63 posts on the topic:

"Can anyone get Duncan closer to Enid? "Susan of Enid" has been sent a message that the Duncan Warrior is near. I hope she gets it soon and knows what she needs to do so the Duncan Warrior can continue his mission."

Its known that they are talking about the little figurine, but this has really interested me because I am almost 100% sure that Jetd63 is Duncan. Duncan used the Jetd63 as part of two emails for example jetd63@ I don't know if this has been touched one, but I personally think it stands for Joseph Edward Third Duncan born in 1963. He also goes by Jet and owned the domain name JetGazette.com. In addition, he mentions both a Joni in one of his geocaching logs and this same person is a signer of the JetGazette guestbook. IN addition, many refer to him as Jet as he does himself.

Many on here have mentioned a possible ring of some sorts, and I am also suspicious of his friends on the geocashing websites.

I hope they throw this scumbag into the general population in prison, but they always seem to protect these scumbags!

[mysteriew]

BobF, somewhere I have seen an entry from geocaching from an envycavy made on 0529 re kids things. Now I can't find it. I was wondering if there is a mention of envycavy in his blog, or any more info about envycavy.
That would have been 13 days after the murders and kidnapping. I am wondering if others weren't aware of what Duncan had done. And maybe were assisting him.

[mysteriew]

The six are; Susan of Enid, OK.
Cheri of Centerville, GA.
Teena of Poulsbo, WA.
Jet of Fargo, ND.
Bruce of Puyallup, WA.
Jason of Tacoma, WA.

Here is one of Jetd63 posts on the topic:

"Can anyone get Duncan closer to Enid? "Susan of Enid" has been sent a message that the Duncan Warrior is near. I hope she gets it soon and knows what she needs to do so the Duncan Warrior can continue his mission."

Its known that they are talking about the little figurine, but this has really interested me because I am almost 100% sure that Jetd63 is Duncan. Duncan used the Jetd63 as part of two emails for example jetd63@ I don't know if this has been touched one, but I personally think it stands for Joseph Edward Third Duncan born in 1963. He also goes by Jet and owned the domain name JetGazette.com. In addition, he mentions both a Joni in one of his geocaching logs and this same person is a signer of the JetGazette guestbook. IN addition, many refer to him as Jet as he does himself.

Many on here have mentioned a possible ring of some sorts, and I am also suspicious of his friends on the geocashing websites.

I hope they throw this scumbag into the general population in prison, but they always seem to protect these scumbags!

I think it is very interesting that 3 of his buddies are in WA and that is so close to where he was found.
When was this post dated?

[BobF]

Seems his hides have been deleted.

[Linda104]

His status at geocaching is now:

Status: Banned Member

Geocaching.com/Groundspeak.com deleted his hides.

[Linda104]

I think it is very interesting that 3 of his buddies are in WA and that is so close to where he was found.
When was this post dated?


The original post with family/friends' names was in March 2003. Jet's post about getting it closer to Enid was in October 2004.

[Linda7NJ]

Ok, I have read this entire thread and feel like a total moron! Can someone PLEASE explain to me what the heck is this game? How it's played? Who plays it and why? In very simple, easy to understand language for the clueless please.


Thanks in advance!

[mysteriew]

Ok, I have read this entire thread and feel like a total moron! Can someone PLEASE explain to me what the heck is this game? How it's played? Who plays it and why? In very simple, easy to understand language for the clueless please.


Thanks in advance!

I have never played and to be honest haven't read that much about it. From what I have heard it is like a high tech treasure hunt. People hide some small something, in a creative hiding place. Then they post hints about it on a website. Seekers try to locate the caches, and if they find it- they take what is there and leave some little something in its place. I have read that some of the "caches" have been large amts of money, but those are very rare. People who have participated- am I correct in this? I am not sure what the terms hide, and travel bug and jeeps refer to.

[Ghostwheel]

I love geocaching. The idea about checking Duncan's GPS for way points is an excellent suggestion!

Here's the gist of geocaching (also known as Navicaching, and a tweak on it is letterboxing) People own things called a GPS (Global Positioning System). With this cute little item you can find specific point anywhere if you have the coordinates. Some one decided a while back it would be fun to hide something, mark the coordinates down, and have someone else try to find the item. People created "caches"-sometimes boxes with little items in them like stickers or mini flashlights, or junk you get in your Christmas stocking and don't want, sometimes a "virtual cache", which is just something you see.

The process goes like this: Person A or Family A hides a cache, maybe with a theme like snakes, and puts a whole bunch of snake related items in it, marks down the coordinates, and posts it on a geocache site. There will be coordinates and some clues. Person B or Family B sees a cache near where they live or are going, puts the coordinates in their GPS, and heads off in that direction, with their own bag of moon rocks and sticky hands to trade for what they find in the cache. The GPS has a map in it, and shows you what direction you are traveling on the road. You figure out where to turn to get to the cache. Eventually, you have to walk or hike in to the final location of the cache, and you are watching the GPS, which is still showing you which direction you are going. You can switch so it shows which direction the cache is, since you put the coordinates into the GPS before you set out.

If someone else is at the cache, you pass on by and come back when they are done. You try not to show anyone passing by that you are getting something out of a hiding place. You trade your junk for junk in the cache, note what you took and what you left, and any comments in the book included in the cache, return it to it's hiding place, and off you go. At the next computer stop, you write that you went to the cache and any comments.

The chances of anyone using any on the caching sites for drops is slim, but could be used for coded messages, I suppose. You never know when another geocacher will come along (we've run into several), so you could not drop off anything really weird (like a child, or children's clothes). Most regular cachers will remove anything even remotely objectionable or suspicious from a cache.

A travel bug is something that a geocacher wants to go from place to place. On the Geocache site, you can buy a dog tag to attach to your travel bug, with it's own name, and it usually has a story, like "I am trying to get from Maine to Florida" or "I want to go to all the states", and then geocachers try to pick it up from one cache, and move it to another. Say you are going to Hawaii, and you find a travel bug that says it wants to go there. You pick it up, take it to Hawaii, and drop it in a cache there.

[Linda7NJ]

I love geocaching. The idea about checking Duncan's GPS for way points is an excellent suggestion!

Here's the gist of geocaching (also known as Navicaching, and a tweak on it is letterboxing) People own things called a GPS (Global Positioning System). With this cute little item you can find specific point anywhere if you have the coordinates. Some one decided a while back it would be fun to hide something, mark the coordinates down, and have someone else try to find the item. People created "caches"-sometimes boxes with little items in them like stickers or mini flashlights, or junk you get in your Christmas stocking and don't want, sometimes a "virtual cache", which is just something you see.

The process goes like this: Person A or Family A hides a cache, maybe with a theme like snakes, and puts a whole bunch of snake related items in it, marks down the coordinates, and posts it on a geocache site. There will be coordinates and some clues. Person B or Family B sees a cache near where they live or are going, puts the coordinates in their GPS, and heads off in that direction, with their own bag of moon rocks and sticky hands to trade for what they find in the cache. The GPS has a map in it, and shows you what direction you are traveling on the road. You figure out where to turn to get to the cache. Eventually, you have to walk or hike in to the final location of the cache, and you are watching the GPS, which is still showing you which direction you are going. You can switch so it shows which direction the cache is, since you put the coordinates into the GPS before you set out.

If someone else is at the cache, you pass on by and come back when they are done. You try not to show anyone passing by that you are getting something out of a hiding place. You trade your junk for junk in the cache, note what you took and what you left, and any comments in the book included in the cache, return it to it's hiding place, and off you go. At the next computer stop, you write that you went to the cache and any comments.

The chances of anyone using any on the caching sites for drops is slim, but could be used for coded messages, I suppose. You never know when another geocacher will come along (we've run into several), so you could not drop off anything really weird (like a child, or children's clothes). Most regular cachers will remove anything even remotely objectionable or suspicious from a cache.

A travel bug is something that a geocacher wants to go from place to place. On the Geocache site, you can buy a dog tag to attach to your travel bug, with it's own name, and it usually has a story, like "I am trying to get from Maine to Florida" or "I want to go to all the states", and then geocachers try to pick it up from one cache, and move it to another. Say you are going to Hawaii, and you find a travel bug that says it wants to go there. You pick it up, take it to Hawaii, and drop it in a cache there.

WOW! Thanks for all the info, interesting!

[mysteriew]

Ghostwheel, thanks for the info. I had only read a couple of news articles (they were about high value "caches" so I had a basic idea, but no real idea of how the search and so forth was accomplished. Thanks.

[indigomood]

I love geocaching. The idea about checking Duncan's GPS for way points is an excellent suggestion!

Here's the gist of geocaching (also known as Navicaching, and a tweak on it is letterboxing) People own things called a GPS (Global Positioning System). With this cute little item you can find specific point anywhere if you have the coordinates. Some one decided a while back it would be fun to hide something, mark the coordinates down, and have someone else try to find the item. People created "caches"-sometimes boxes with little items in them like stickers or mini flashlights, or junk you get in your Christmas stocking and don't want, sometimes a "virtual cache", which is just something you see.

The process goes like this: Person A or Family A hides a cache, maybe with a theme like snakes, and puts a whole bunch of snake related items in it, marks down the coordinates, and posts it on a geocache site. There will be coordinates and some clues. Person B or Family B sees a cache near where they live or are going, puts the coordinates in their GPS, and heads off in that direction, with their own bag of moon rocks and sticky hands to trade for what they find in the cache. The GPS has a map in it, and shows you what direction you are traveling on the road. You figure out where to turn to get to the cache. Eventually, you have to walk or hike in to the final location of the cache, and you are watching the GPS, which is still showing you which direction you are going. You can switch so it shows which direction the cache is, since you put the coordinates into the GPS before you set out.

If someone else is at the cache, you pass on by and come back when they are done. You try not to show anyone passing by that you are getting something out of a hiding place. You trade your junk for junk in the cache, note what you took and what you left, and any comments in the book included in the cache, return it to it's hiding place, and off you go. At the next computer stop, you write that you went to the cache and any comments.

The chances of anyone using any on the caching sites for drops is slim, but could be used for coded messages, I suppose. You never know when another geocacher will come along (we've run into several), so you could not drop off anything really weird (like a child, or children's clothes). Most regular cachers will remove anything even remotely objectionable or suspicious from a cache.

A travel bug is something that a geocacher wants to go from place to place. On the Geocache site, you can buy a dog tag to attach to your travel bug, with it's own name, and it usually has a story, like "I am trying to get from Maine to Florida" or "I want to go to all the states", and then geocachers try to pick it up from one cache, and move it to another. Say you are going to Hawaii, and you find a travel bug that says it wants to go there. You pick it up, take it to Hawaii, and drop it in a cache there.
That is so very interesting! Thanks for posting the info, I have a much better understanding of it now... :)

[CaliKid]

Wow, that sounds like a lot of fun.

[Wayne]

I love geocaching. The idea about checking Duncan's GPS for way points is an excellent suggestion!

Here's the gist of geocaching (also known as Navicaching, and a tweak on it is letterboxing) People own things called a GPS (Global Positioning System). With this cute little item you can find specific point anywhere if you have the coordinates. Some one decided a while back it would be fun to hide something, mark the coordinates down, and have someone else try to find the item. People created "caches"-sometimes boxes with little items in them like stickers or mini flashlights, or junk you get in your Christmas stocking and don't want, sometimes a "virtual cache", which is just something you see.

The process goes like this: Person A or Family A hides a cache, maybe with a theme like snakes, and puts a whole bunch of snake related items in it, marks down the coordinates, and posts it on a geocache site. There will be coordinates and some clues. Person B or Family B sees a cache near where they live or are going, puts the coordinates in their GPS, and heads off in that direction, with their own bag of moon rocks and sticky hands to trade for what they find in the cache. The GPS has a map in it, and shows you what direction you are traveling on the road. You figure out where to turn to get to the cache. Eventually, you have to walk or hike in to the final location of the cache, and you are watching the GPS, which is still showing you which direction you are going. You can switch so it shows which direction the cache is, since you put the coordinates into the GPS before you set out.

If someone else is at the cache, you pass on by and come back when they are done. You try not to show anyone passing by that you are getting something out of a hiding place. You trade your junk for junk in the cache, note what you took and what you left, and any comments in the book included in the cache, return it to it's hiding place, and off you go. At the next computer stop, you write that you went to the cache and any comments.

The chances of anyone using any on the caching sites for drops is slim, but could be used for coded messages, I suppose. You never know when another geocacher will come along (we've run into several), so you could not drop off anything really weird (like a child, or children's clothes). Most regular cachers will remove anything even remotely objectionable or suspicious from a cache.

A travel bug is something that a geocacher wants to go from place to place. On the Geocache site, you can buy a dog tag to attach to your travel bug, with it's own name, and it usually has a story, like "I am trying to get from Maine to Florida" or "I want to go to all the states", and then geocachers try to pick it up from one cache, and move it to another. Say you are going to Hawaii, and you find a travel bug that says it wants to go there. You pick it up, take it to Hawaii, and drop it in a cache there.
I agree with your remark for geocaching in a populated area. But what about a remote area like the national forest or national parks, a location that can be located by GPS waypoints? IMO, if a perp uses remote sites like these for cache locations, then one could use geocaching to hand-off child's clothes or cash or child pornography or illegal drugs or even a child.

But in a city or populated center, I agree with your point. But outside a populated area, IMO, geocaching game can be used for other purposes.

[Ghostwheel]

I agree with your remark for geocaching in a populated area. But what about a remote area like the national forest or national parks, a location that can be located by GPS waypoints? IMO, if a perp uses remote sites like these for cache locations, then one could use geocaching to hand-off child's clothes or cash or child pornography or illegal drugs or even a child.

But in a city or populated center, I agree with your point. But outside a populated area, IMO, geocaching game can be used for other purposes.Not to say that it COULDN'T happen, just not likely with something like the Geocaching site. Seriously, we have been in podunk nowhere and run into people. Heck, we were in a cemetary in the middle of the night and ran into people. Who'd have though some other weirdos were looking for a Geocache in the cemetary in off the wall town at 2:00 AM? I never thought I would either, but there you go.

But all ideas are good, and as I said, I especially like the way point one. You can sometimes see everywhere a person has gone on the GPS map if they haven't erased their last trip. I could also see passing off information on cards, or scribbled on a tissue pack, for that matter. Same as anything else. What looks like graffitti to me, might have an entirely different meaning to someone else.

[Wayne]

Not to say that it COULDN'T happen, just not likely with something like the Geocaching site. Seriously, we have been in podunk nowhere and run into people. Heck, we were in a cemetary in the middle of the night and ran into people. Who'd have though some other weirdos were looking for a Geocache in the cemetary in off the wall town at 2:00 AM? I never thought I would either, but there you go.

But all ideas are good, and as I said, I especially like the way point one. You can sometimes see everywhere a person has gone on the GPS map if they haven't erased their last trip. I could also see passing off information on cards, or scribbled on a tissue pack, for that matter. Same as anything else. What looks like graffitti to me, might have an entirely different meaning to someone else.
I tracked down other usernames used by JETD63 through his GPS coordinates... and passed those on to LE on Monday. By mid-day Tuesday, the information I had passed on had been deleted.

I am 99.9% certain there is a link with the geocaching game (or some similar GPS gaming site) - that he and his sicko perps had found a way to use GPS to pass children, cash, and child porn around.

It is likely Duncan hid the children in the national forrest while he went into town in St Regis alone ... using the GPS to find his way back. It was likely he told the children if they left the camp site, they'd never be found. So Dylan (while he was alive) and Shasta stayed put - relying on Duncan to return.

[Linda104]

Ghostwheel, thanks for taking the time to explain it. I love geocaching too. We've been doing it since December 2004. It's a good family activity and great exercise too.

Duncan most likely did use his GPS if he hid the kids out in the woods. I think if he wanted to send someone his coordinates for some reason, he'd simply send them an email with the numbers rather than risk putting it on geocaching.com or any other public gaming site.

[Wayne]

Ghostwheel, thanks for taking the time to explain it. I love geocaching too. We've been doing it since December 2004. It's a good family activity and great exercise too.

Duncan most likely did use his GPS if he hid the kids out in the woods. I think if he wanted to send someone his coordinates for some reason, he'd simply send them an email with the numbers rather than risk putting it on geocaching.com or any other public gaming site.
Email links the recipient to the abduction.

Puting it on a web site eliminates that linkage.

Placing it on his blog (encryptic message) or on a public site (like geocaching) IMO makes perfect sense for Duncan to do...

[Verity]

As well as hiding, Jetd63 has 10 finds. Seems to have started around here:-

"October 10, 2004 by <A href="http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=8153b2c9-e05f-436c-afdf-616182c69f44">Jetd63 (10 found)
Great spot, right out in the open, yet not. Good cache, lots of stuff, exchanged pencils (left a fancy one for the more plain one in the cache). Just started Geocaching, not used to knowing what to take or what to leave."
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=1acdc77e-f2ac-4c27-9f0a-d88f5620ee0b

ETA: Here's the link to page for all the finds...type in username
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx

ETA: And he was not alone.......


North Dakota Wednesday, October 13, 2004http://www.geocaching.com/images/icons/icon_smile.gif Jetd63 (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=8153b2c9-e05f-436c-afdf-616182c69f44) found Island Park Puzzle (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=7cb6cd1f-0023-4bad-9da7-dd0e2387f5a5) (Multi-cache) Found both stages with a friend's help. Very sneaky (but clever) hiding places! http://www.geocaching.com/images/icons/icon_smile_evil.gif There should be clues. The date on the object was... http://www.geocaching.com/images/icons/icon_smile_wink.gif [This entry was edited by Jetd63 on Friday, October 15, 2004 at 7:48:48 PM.] [This entry was edited by Jetd63 on Friday, October 15, 2004 at 7:51:01 PM.]

[CaliKid]

It sounds as if this is some kind of child-swapping club.

[Wayne]

It sounds as if this is some kind of child-swapping club.
I agree - child-swapping OR maybe a form of child porn swapping.

IMO, it is a shame something so innocent and fun can be used in this awful way.

[PrayersForMaura]

It sounds as if this is some kind of child-swapping club.
I agree ... I definitely think it should be reported to the authorities.
Better to be safe than sorry :(

[PrayersForMaura]

It sounds as if this is some kind of child-swapping club.
Also, was this Dr. Wackman or whatever his name is involved in this game??
Anyone know?

[Ghostwheel]

Email links the recipient to the abduction.

Puting it on a web site eliminates that linkage.

Placing it on his blog (encryptic message) or on a public site (like geocaching) IMO makes perfect sense for Duncan to do...Obviously it does not eliminate the linkage ;) But has anything this login done recently been deleted? Was there anything this login (or linked ones) had on the site for the past six months? He did so little for such a short time, I'm not seeing the posting it on the website at all. But as I said, putting some kind of code in a cache, sure, it's possible. You don't HAVE to write down what you leave or take, so anything could come and go.

[Wayne]

Obviously it does not eliminate the linkage ;) But has anything this login done recently been deleted? Was there anything this login (or linked ones) had on the site for the past six months? He did so little for such a short time, I'm not seeing the posting it on the website at all. But as I said, putting some kind of code in a cache, sure, it's possible. You don't HAVE to write down what you leave or take, so anything could come and go.
I saw lots of entries.

I followed one cache originally set in Washington in mid-September 2004 taken to South Carolina and then to Montana in May 2005. That is odd... and the cache entries / history are now deleted.

[Tom'sGirl]

I agree ... I definitely think it should be reported to the authorities.
Better to be safe than sorry :(
Obvisously it has Prayers, as I have heard on the news them mention Duncan's blog and numerous other internet postings he was affilated with.

[kelizabeth]

I am sorry, but what is a geo city or cache ? :banghead:

[WebbyCat]

This guy was not what I would call an avid or very active geocacher. Jeeezzzz, he got about 10 caches in two years. This guy probably did other sporting activities, like maybe bowling or something, so why not pick on bowling.

I've gotten 217 caches in a little less than two years and have over 40 hides, so I do know geocaching. There is absolutely no way geocaching is associated with this crime and I think anyone is just grasping at straws to associate geocaching with sinister activities.

[pamlet]

This guy was not what I would call an avid or very active geocacher. Jeeezzzz, he got about 10 caches in two years. This guy probably did other sporting activities, like maybe bowling or something, so why not pick on bowling.

I've gotten 217 caches in a little less than two years and have over 40 hides, so I do know geocaching. There is absolutely no way geocaching is associated with this crime and I think anyone is just grasping at straws to associate geocaching with sinister activities.
Good point!! I've signed onto the site a while back... even tried a couple but our GPS was flaky... laugh... or I'm just not a good enough sleuth..

Actually when you think about it - it goes right along with sleuthing... clues, the hunt... :)

[Ghostwheel]

I am sorry, but what is a geo city or cache ? :banghead:Go back to page 2 and find my post on Geocaching. It will explain a lot.

[BobF]

Ya, they deleted his hide, which was a photo cache......

[Verity]

Let me try and get this straight. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

1. FACT: Duncan used an email address JETD63@blahblah to register the domain name which is his blog known as The Fifth Nail.
2. FACT: "JETD63" is also a member of a Geocaching group, whose record shows he participated in 10 "Finds" initiated by other members commencing Oct 04 and located in areas known to be frequented by Duncan, including Fargo.
3. FACT: JETD63 participated in at least one "find" with a friend, identity unknown
4. FACT: JETD63 made two "Hides" of his own, or with his friend, details of which have been deleted from the Geocaching website in the last day or so, at least one of which he included a photo or photos.
5. FACT: The Geocaching website membership includes reputable people and families with children, any one of whom could follow his clues and find his "hide", not just pedophiles.

Ergo - this particular website could not have been used as a means of passing real children, pornographic photos or related pedophilia to a selected ring of pedophiles, orchestrated by Duncan or anyone else.

However, the evidence does point to the JETD63 member of Geocachers being the same person, so the real question is:-

Is there any connection between Duncan's discovery of Geocaching in late 2004 and his ability to identify and/ or exploit Shasta and Dylan Groene as victims? The only possible answer I can find is that he used the knowledge to set up another Geocaching site involving a pedophile ring to which he already belonged, and it was through his participation in this group that he was able to identify the Groene family.

I dunno...seems a stretch to me....what did I miss?

Verity
(remind me to get a sig)

ETA: Another option could be that one of the Groene family was also a Geocacher, but since Duncan was very internet active, equally, they could have met elsewhere on the internet, in a chat room for example. Did they retrieve any computers from the Groene house?

[Linda104]

This guy was not what I would call an avid or very active geocacher. Jeeezzzz, he got about 10 caches in two years.

I've gotten 217 caches in a little less than two years and have over 40 hides, so I do know geocaching. There is absolutely no way geocaching is associated with this crime and I think anyone is just grasping at straws to associate geocaching with sinister activities.

I agree WebbyCat. We started geocaching in December 28, 2004, and we have 664 finds and 34 hides. You might call us hyperactive cachers.

Also, just for clarification, his photo caches were not photos of himself. He hid a disposable camera and asked people to take pictures of themselves and take it with them when they travel, and leave it in another cache. Geocaching.com has deleted his photo caches and hopefully the cameras were retrieved and given to authorities.

We have a travel bug that has gone to 6 states in less than a week. My daughter is having fun mapping it's location. It's just fun, nothing sinister.

[CaliKid]

Let me try and get this straight. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

1. FACT: Duncan used an email address JETD63@blahblah to register the domain name which is his blog known as The Fifth Nail.
2. FACT: "JETD63" is also a member of a Geocaching group, whose record shows he participated in 10 "Finds" initiated by other members commencing Oct 04 and located in areas known to be frequented by Duncan, including Fargo.
3. FACT: JETD63 participated in at least one "find" with a friend, identity unknown
4. FACT: JETD63 made two "Hides" of his own, or with his friend, details of which have been deleted from the Geocaching website in the last day or so, at least one of which he included a photo or photos.
5. FACT: The Geocaching website membership includes reputable people and families with children, any one of whom could follow his clues and find his "hide", not just pedophiles.

Ergo - this particular website could not have been used as a means of passing real children, pornographic photos or related pedophilia to a selected ring of pedophiles, orchestrated by Duncan or anyone else.

However, the evidence does point to the JETD63 member of Geocachers being the same person, so the real question is:-

Is there any connection between Duncan's discovery of Geocaching in late 2004 and his ability to identify and/ or exploit Shasta and Dylan Groene as victims? The only possible answer I can find is that he used the knowledge to set up another Geocaching site involving a pedophile ring to which he already belonged, and it was through his participation in this group that he was able to identify the Groene family.

I dunno...seems a stretch to me....what did I miss?

Verity
(remind me to get a sig)

ETA: Another option could be that one of the Groene family was also a Geocacher, but since Duncan was very internet active, equally, they could have met elsewhere on the internet, in a chat room for example. Did they retrieve any computers from the Groene house?
Verity, I don't think you're missing anything. It's sort of like someone taking the game of hide and seek to the next level where it becomes stalking. I see no reason why JED couldn't have learned about geocacheing as a simple, innocent diversion and transformed it into a way to exchange pornography or even children.

[Wayne]

Verity, I don't think you're missing anything. It's sort of like someone taking the game of hide and seek to the next level where it becomes stalking. I see no reason why JED couldn't have learned about geocacheing as a simple, innocent diversion and transformed it into a way to exchange pornography or even children.
I agree CaliKid...

Or JED was taught by more sophisticated players he came across (prison or college) on how to transform it into different ways - including a way to exchange pornography or even children.

[Brains & NoBull]

This guy was not what I would call an avid or very active geocacher. Jeeezzzz, he got about 10 caches in two years. This guy probably did other sporting activities, like maybe bowling or something, so why not pick on bowling.

I've gotten 217 caches in a little less than two years and have over 40 hides, so I do know geocaching. There is absolutely no way geocaching is associated with this crime and I think anyone is just grasping at straws to associate geocaching with sinister activities.
I am with you Webbycat.

I am an active geocacher and am seeing quite a few conspiracy theories by folks who have never participated in the game (hence all of the questions as to what geocaching even is!). Many of these theories are QUITE a stretch and those of us who participate in geocaching are well aware of that.

Just because a high profile criminal's screen name has been found on the geocaching site with all of ten finds, does not constitute a child swapping or child porn ring. In geocaching, everything is very well documented and it would be impossible to make sure that a "sinister" cache would be found by the desired person and not another innocent geocacher. Plus, most caches are tiny. We are talking about film containers and Altoid containers held by magnets to metal.

Sometimes a duck is just a duck. I encourage those who have never been geocaching to give it a go. You will realize how silly some of these theories are and pick up a new hobby at the same time.

Seriously try it. You will enjoy it. ;)

[Dara]

From everything that has been posted about geocaching, I see nothing that indicates it couldn't be used in a less-than-wholesome manner by someone with those leanings. It isn't an attack on those who participate to recognize that. I don't quite get why at least some geocachers here seem to, imo, be taking personally the speculation. Especially since, based on their own descriptions of geocaching, those thoeries seem possible, if not downright plausible.

[mysteriew]

1) Child porn is more easily distributed via computer than geo caching. Why go to all that trouble when you can do the same thing with the click of a mouse.
2) If you knew that your geo buddy was going to be dropping off supplies or money for you on Wed. then you could go Wed evening to a prearranged cache. After picking up the supplies or whatever, then you could leave something more usual in the cache, then there would be no indication of what you picked up. "If" he was using it this way, then it is just one more thing that has been converted to his advantage. As far as a pedo ring, IMO probably not. See number one.

[Dara]

1) Child porn is more easily distributed via computer than geo caching. Why go to all that trouble when you can do the same thing with the click of a mouse.

Why take a child you've kidnapped and raped into public places near her home?

I can easily see someone like Duncan combining "hobbies." It's possible, that's all. Posters can call theorizing about it "silly" (which is really insulting, imo), but I don't think it is silly at all, given what we know of Duncan. I want to learn more and I won't rule out theories about his geocaching.

[mysteriew]

Why take a child you've kidnapped and raped into public places near her home?

I can easily see someone like Duncan combining "hobbies." It's possible, that's all. Posters can call theorizing about it "silly" (which is really insulting, imo), but I don't think it is silly at all, given what we know of Duncan. I want to learn more and I won't rule out theories about his geocaching.

My post was not meant to be an insult.
But, we have to look at things realistically. If JED was taping and distributing porn, it would have been easier and quicker to get the porn out by computer. And with his skills on computer, that would most likely have been his habit. Geocaching may have been an innocent hobby for him. Or he could have used it to his advantage in other ways. But for passing porn- the computer would allow him to pass it to an unlimited number of people, and would have been the medium he was most comfortable with.
Why take a child into public places near her home? That I don't know. But it is verified that he did it.

[Dara]

My post was not meant to be an insult. I didn't mean yours. You didn't use the word "silly," which I put in quotes. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

But, we have to look at things realistically. If JED was taping and distributing porn, it would have been easier and quicker to get the porn out by computer. And realistically, JED might not have cared about easy and quick.

Geocaching may have been an innocent hobby for him. Or he could have used it to his advantage in other ways. Exactly. That's my only point.
Why take a child into public places near her home? That I don't know. But it is verified that he did it. Right. That just shows his mindset isn't exactly normal. So I don't think we can rule out possible actions simply because they don't seem logical.

[Brains & NoBull]

I don't quite get why at least some geocachers here seem to, imo, be taking personally the speculation. Especially since, based on their own descriptions of geocaching, those thoeries seem possible, if not downright plausible.
I don't believe that any of the geocachers are taking any of the speculation personally. We are simply stating that, based on our knowledge and experience playing the game, many of these theories, while perhaps plausible (everything is plausible unless scientifically proven not to be), are simply not probable.

Posters can call theorizing about it "silly" (which is really insulting, imo), but I don't think it is silly at all, given what we know of Duncan.
I was the poster who used the term "silly" and it was not intended as an insult to anyone. Once again with both knowledge of geocaching and experience playing the game, many of these theories are simply out of the scope of reality. I wouldn't say that these theories *couldn't* happen, but I highly doubt that any of these theories *did* happen, especially from my standpoint of being a geocacher. (Again, a matter of plausible versus probable.)

In short, many of the theories simply are not compatible with the reality of what geocaching actually is. Just as others have the ability to post their theories of sinister geocaching activities, we geocachers have the ability to dismiss the theories based on our knowledge of the game. ;)

It is clear that we are going to continue to disagree. I just ask that those who are theorizing about geocaching actually give the game and chance so that you get an idea of the inner workings. Many of these theories are simply improbable.

[Dara]

I was the poster who used the term "silly" and it was not intended as an insult to anyone. That's nice to know. If I called geocaching "silly," you might be offended, though. I personally wouldn't call anyone's speculation silly, but that's just me.
Once again with both knowledge of geocaching and experience playing the game, many of these theories are simply out of the scope of reality. I wouldn't say that these theories *couldn't* happen, but I highly doubt that any of these theories *did* happen, especially from my standpoint of being a geocacher. (Again, a matter of plausible versus probable.) If it is possible, then it is within the scope of reality. A week ago, it seemed unlikely that the whole family was murdered so that two children could be kidnapped. A week ago, it seemed unlikely that the murderer, rapist, and kidnapper would be seen in public having a meal with one victim. What is outside the "scope of reality" for most people may not be for Duncan.
In short, many of the theories simply are not compatible with the reality of what geocaching actually is. Just as others have the ability to post their theories of sinister geocaching activities, we geocachers have the ability to dismiss the theories based on our knowledge of the game. ;) If you can't say it's impossible that Duncan used geocaching nefariously, you can only personally dismiss the idea, which is your right. But until someone proves to me that it is impossible to use geocache in the ways that others have speculated, I'm not ruling it out. I don't know if Duncan had an innocent hobby or a hobby that was part of his victimization of children, or a bit of both.
It is clear that we are going to continue to disagree. I just ask that those who are theorizing about geocaching actually give the game and chance so that you get an idea of the inner workings. Many of these theories are simply improbable. Sorry, no. Based on what I've read, geocaching doesn't interest me. I speculate about crimes, and I'm no criminal. I'll do the same with geocaching.

[BobF]

That's nice to know. If I called geocaching "silly," you might be offended, though. I personally wouldn't call anyone's speculation silly, but that's just me.
If it is possible, then it is within the scope of reality. A week ago, it seemed unlikely that the whole family was murdered so that two children could be kidnapped. A week ago, it seemed unlikely that the murderer, rapist, and kidnapper would be seen in public having a meal with one victim. What is outside the "scope of reality" for most people may not be for Duncan.
If you can't say it's impossible that Duncan used geocaching nefariously, you can only personally dismiss the idea, which is your right. But until someone proves to me that it is impossible to use geocache in the ways that others have speculated, I'm not ruling it out. I don't know if Duncan had an innocent hobby or a hobby that was part of his victimization of children, or a bit of both.
Sorry, no. Based on what I've read, geocaching doesn't interest me. I speculate about crimes, and I'm no criminal. I'll do the same with geocaching.Excellent post and I couldn't agree more.

[Brains & NoBull]

Sorry, no. Based on what I've read, geocaching doesn't interest me. I speculate about crimes, and I'm no criminal. I'll do the same with geocaching.
You may speculate about crimes all that you want, but it helps if you have some understanding of what you speak of. Clearly you would rather not know the details of geocaching as it "doen't interest" you. In that case, I will not pester you with the facts, as they seem to be hampering your theorizing.

I suppose that we must never let the facts get in the way of a good theory. :)

[Dara]

You may speculate about crimes all that you want, but it helps if you have some understanding of what you speak of. Clearly you would rather not know the details of geocaching as it "doen't interest" you. In that case, I will not pester you with the facts, as they seem to be hampering your theorizing.

I suppose that we must never let the facts get in the way of a good theory. :)
I am open to the facts. I've read all that facts that have been posted. In your last two posts, you haven't posted facts about geocaching. It's all been opinion. You say those of us speculating should try geocaching. And I won't, because it doesn't interest me, based on what I've read so far. I'll read any facts posted, I'll go read any articles linked to. But I won't participate in geocaching. If you interpret that as not wanting to know any facts about geocaching or anything else, that's a problem on your end with assumptions and poor comprehension.

[Dara]

Excellent post and I couldn't agree more.
Thanks, BobF!

[BobF]

You may speculate about crimes all that you want, but it helps if you have some understanding of what you speak of. Clearly you would rather not know the details of geocaching as it "doen't interest" you. In that case, I will not pester you with the facts, as they seem to be hampering your theorizing.

I suppose that we must never let the facts get in the way of a good theory. :)I guess I don't understand the disagreement since I havent taken the time to read the entire thread:doh: . What is the issue with the geocaching and Duncan? Personally, what I found in regards to Duncan and his geocaching was very interesting. A lot of the interesting information has since been deleted from the geocaching website which increases my interest. Sure, it could have been nothing more then a harmless hobby for Duncan, but it could have also been a hobby he and his other sick friends engaged in together for devious purposes. Seems both theories are just as plausible.

[BobF]

I am open to the facts. I've read all that facts that have been posted. In your last two posts, you haven't posted facts about geocaching. It's all been opinion. You say those of us speculating should try geocaching. And I won't, because it doesn't interest me, based on what I've read so far. I'll read any facts posted, I'll go read any articles linked to. But I won't participate in geocaching. If you interpret that as not wanting to know any facts about geocaching or anything else, that's a problem on your end with assumptions and poor comprehension.
Another excellent point. One does not need to engage in geocaching to understand what geocaching is. I also have no desire to engage in geocaching, but I don't feel this makes me less open to the facts or somehow disqualifies me from making comments regarding geocaching. I have been to the web and read all about the hobby and still I find the connection to Duncan very intersting.

[mysteriew]

I find it interesting that the entries have been deleted. That shows that we are probably not the only ones questioning if there may be some connection here. If nothing else it at least shows where JED is some of the time.

[mysteriew]

For those who made copies of his hides- did he have any hides or finds in Jan 2004 or Sept 2004?

[Linda104]

The only thing that was really deleted was the entry where Duncan visited SpyderSByte's cache. Spyder deleted that himself.

The rest of the things have been "archived" by an admin of Geocaching.com. They are still accessible if needed. They have been archived so nobody else will try to find Duncan's caches. Geocaching.com must have made the decision to archive them based on the negative opinions floating around about geocaching in general.

[BobF]

The only thing that was really deleted was the entry where Duncan visited SpyderSByte's cache. Spyder deleted that himself.

The rest of the things have been "archived" by an admin of Geocaching.com. They are still accessible if needed. They have been archived so nobody else will try to find Duncan's caches. Geocaching.com must have made the decision to archive them based on the negative opinions floating around about geocaching in general.
Why would they want to stop anyone from finding Ducans hides? Can you provide a link to his archived hides? Also, if geocaching was concerned with the negative publicity, why not delete Duncans account entirely. Do you have confirmation that SpyderSByte deleted the entries?

SpyderSByte seems to refer to Duncan as a possible family member, JET from Fargo, he refers to Jet instead of jetd63 which tells me he knows Duncan on a personal level since all his friends seem to refer to him as Jet. http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=c3c77004-ad8d-4ddb-bb2e-731f5edeb587....

In addition, how would you know if he took any photos himself on that disposable camera?

[mysteriew]

The only thing that was really deleted was the entry where Duncan visited SpyderSByte's cache. Spyder deleted that himself.

The rest of the things have been "archived" by an admin of Geocaching.com. They are still accessible if needed. They have been archived so nobody else will try to find Duncan's caches. Geocaching.com must have made the decision to archive them based on the negative opinions floating around about geocaching in general.

But did he make any reports in Jan. 2004 or Sept. 2004?

[Linda104]

But did he make any reports in Jan. 2004 or Sept. 2004?

No he did not.

[Linda104]

Why would they want to stop anyone from finding Ducans hides? Can you provide a link to his archived hides? Also, if geocaching was concerned with the negative publicity, why not delete Duncans account entirely. Do you have confirmation that SpyderSByte deleted the entries?

SpyderSByte seems to refer to Duncan as a possible family member, JET from Fargo, he refers to Jet instead of jetd63 which tells me he knows Duncan on a personal level since all his friends seem to refer to him as Jet. http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=c3c77004-ad8d-4ddb-bb2e-731f5edeb587....

In addition, how would you know if he took any photos himself on that disposable camera?

I assume when they ban a member, they archive his hides.

I would have to do a little digging to find the archived hides.

The only person who can delete a log entry is the owner of the cache. So, yes I know for certain that it was Spyder who logged in on July 4th and deleted the entry. I saw the entry, I saw him log in, the entry was gone the next day.

I do not know if he took a picture of himself before placing the camera. I was just trying to clarify that the camera was put out for the purpose of others taking pictures.

[Linda104]

After a little digging, I discovered the two photo caches have been taken over by an administrator at geocaching.com and a message has been added to mail the cameras to geocaching. They will most likely then send them to the authorities.

[BobF]

I assume when they ban a member, they archive his hides.

I would have to do a little digging to find the archived hides.

The only person who can delete a log entry is the owner of the cache. So, yes I know for certain that it was Spyder who logged in on July 4th and deleted the entry. I saw the entry, I saw him log in, the entry was gone the next day.

I do not know if he took a picture of himself before placing the camera. I was just trying to clarify that the camera was put out for the purpose of others taking pictures.
Gotcha, but these are all just assumptions as are my posts on the topic. Couldn't the site administrator also delete the finds?

[BobF]

After a little digging, I discovered the two photo caches have been taken over by an administrator at geocaching.com and a message has been added to mail the cameras to geocaching. They will most likely then send them to the authorities.
Interesting indeed.

[Linda104]

Gotcha, but these are all just assumptions as are my posts on the topic. Couldn't the site administrator also delete the finds?

Right these are assumptions based on my personal experience at the geocaching.com site.

I can tell you that Duncan's one "find" in Washington was deleted on a day that Spyder logged into geocaching.com. A few days later JETD63 was banned and the photo caches were taken over. Those are the facts and you can interpret them however you like.

[Ghostwheel]

Why would they want to stop anyone from finding Ducans hides? Can you provide a link to his archived hides? Also, if geocaching was concerned with the negative publicity, why not delete Duncans account entirely. Do you have confirmation that SpyderSByte deleted the entries?

SpyderSByte seems to refer to Duncan as a possible family member, JET from Fargo, he refers to Jet instead of jetd63 which tells me he knows Duncan on a personal level since all his friends seem to refer to him as Jet. http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=c3c77004-ad8d-4ddb-bb2e-731f5edeb587....

In addition, how would you know if he took any photos himself on that disposable camera?Why would they want to stop people from seeing his hides? For many reasons, some of which could be
a) They are checking out any theories that his "hides" might have any clues in them.
b)they don't want people continually hitting on their database to see this information over and over (hits are good, but overloading a server is bad)
c) They are doing damage control
d) LE asked them to

and a host of other reasons. Re: the camera. ANY pictures could be on those cameras, so it would only make sense to check them out. That would make sense regarding any camera associated with a known criminal. And if they delete Duncan's accounts entirely, it would be a mess to bring that information back, so archiving it makes it easier to view. He posted several finds, and depending on the database, removing him altogether could mess up what LE might want to see. (technical computer mumbo jumbo can be inserted here if you are interested.)

[mysteriew]

From what I have read, LE is now looking at everyplace that Duncan has been. They are looking at his credit card usage and where it was used, his blog, his GPS, his IPS numbers and everything they can find with his name on it. And they will also be looking at his geo info. They will be looking at not only his locations, but also for hints as to his associates. The reason that they will be looking for them it because pedofiles have been known to network, and because they are looking to see if anyone helped him out during his crime spree.
Some are getting upset about the negative attention geocaching is getting.
Most of us do not blame geocaching the game. IF Duncan misused geoching to his advantage, it is just that. He took a simple hobby and used it to his advantage. That doesn't mean that other geocachers are doing anything wrong. It just means that Duncan used the game to his own advantage. Much like a burglar might break into a home and use electrical cords to tie someone up. It doesn't mean the electric cords are to blame or that it is your own fault because you had electric cords in your home. It just means that Duncan found a way to use it. That is all.
There is nothing wrong with questioning if he did this. (Making an assumption that all geocachers do it is wrong, however). But if he found a way to use the game, it is best to know- if he figured out a way to use it, then others might too.

[BobF]

Why would they want to stop people from seeing his hides? For many reasons, some of which could be
a) They are checking out any theories that his "hides" might have any clues in them.
b)they don't want people continually hitting on their database to see this information over and over (hits are good, but overloading a server is bad)
c) They are doing damage control
d) LE asked them to

and a host of other reasons. Re: the camera. ANY pictures could be on those cameras, so it would only make sense to check them out. That would make sense regarding any camera associated with a known criminal. And if they delete Duncan's accounts entirely, it would be a mess to bring that information back, so archiving it makes it easier to view. He posted several finds, and depending on the database, removing him altogether could mess up what LE might want to see. (technical computer mumbo jumbo can be inserted here if you are interested.)
Sure, all those and many more are possible reasons, but to only delete his hides is what interests me. Maybe we will have the answers sometime soon.

[Ghostwheel]

From everything that has been posted about geocaching, I see nothing that indicates it couldn't be used in a less-than-wholesome manner by someone with those leanings. It isn't an attack on those who participate to recognize that. I don't quite get why at least some geocachers here seem to, imo, be taking personally the speculation. Especially since, based on their own descriptions of geocaching, those thoeries seem possible, if not downright plausible.What seems more plausible, IMO, is that he used geocaching to learn how to use the GPS, then could have used that knowledge for more nefarious purposes. I believe most geocachers (myself included) don't believe, based on our experience of actually finding and possible hiding, that it is plausible (although anything is possible) the actual geocaching site and published hides could easily pass porn or children or anything illegal. You would be taking a VERY big chance that someone else would intercept what you intended to pass. When I read comments that sound like someone thinks the whole thing is a child kidnapping ring, it makes me want to explain how HARD it would be for that to happen, because if you have never participated, you could not know that.

That being said, could a porn or child molester ring use a GPS and pass coordinates around in an innocent looking manner that other (especially non-GPS users) would not recognize? You bet, but again, they would not likely post on a site where people understand how a GPS works, and could intercept a planned pass off. It could happen, but why take that chance if you don't need to? It is just not as likely as just posting numbers on a blog, or having a known code where you pick out every 10th letter, convert it to a number and there is your GPS coordinate. Or just making a phone call and saying the coordinates. (but maybe that's too easy...?)

Plausible, not really to anyone who has ever done it, because the risk factor would be very great, and why take that risk? Possible, sure. Always worth looking into. There are some people who get a kick out of the risk, or maybe don't realize the risk factor.

[Ghostwheel]

Sure, all those and many more are possible reasons, but to only delete his hides is what interests me. Maybe we will have the answers sometime soon.Would you really want thousands of interested people descending upon a hide location? That could wreak havoc with the environment, or destroy any possible clues. I agree, it will be interesting to find out if anything if interest is found regarding the cache, though.

[Linda104]

Sure, all those and many more are possible reasons, but to only delete his hides is what interests me. Maybe we will have the answers sometime soon.

Another very plausible reason to delete his hides is because once a member is banned, they won't be their to "maintain" the caches = putting in new log books, answering questions about the cache, changing a container when it gets wet, replacing a stolen container, etc. So when a person gets banned, their hides get archived.

[BobF]

Did anyone see how Duncan mentions the Duncan warrior here:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030308063943/http://myweb.cableone.net/jetd/

[Dara]

Plausible, not really to anyone who has ever done it, because the risk factor would be very great, and why take that risk? Possible, sure. Always worth looking into. There are some people who get a kick out of the risk, or maybe don't realize the risk factor.
I think we can all agree it's risky to bring a child you've kidnapped and raped to a public place in the same area you kidnapped her from and where you murdered her family. So, imo, JED was enough of a risk-taker to do just about anything. I think he'd welcome the challenge and danger. Now, are others the same way? Possibly.

If his doctor friend is a pedophile, he also took the risk of being investigated, imo, by going very public with his support and even offering to bring a convicted sex offender into a home where there are children in his preferred age range. Pedophile or not, he risked a lot doing so. Maybe a few like-minded individuals found each other.

So, imo, there are people who will take such risks. As you say, worth looking into even if the possibility is remote.

[Vet4Bush]

There's a possibility Dr. Wacko was being blackmailed by Duncan. Duncan knew Wacko was a pedophile, gay or whatever and used that info to extract money ($6500) or support (court testimony) and Wacko risked exposure in the medical community. Wacko moved around a lot from job to job, maybe he was being exposed from time to time by Duncan or by his own actions. No doubt the medical community is not that different than the Catholic Church that would move around a bad priest rather than discipline him. JED3 meeting Wacko in a coffeehouse in San Francisco, the gay bay, no doubt tells volumes about the guy's background. Lord knows Duncan is gay, although he likes em real young. You gotta think Wacko is the same way or worse since he's also a pediatrician.

[mysteriew]

There's a possibility Dr. Wacko was being blackmailed by Duncan. Duncan knew Wacko was a pedophile, gay or whatever and used that info to extract money ($6500) or support (court testimony) and Wacko risked exposure in the medical community. Wacko moved around a lot from job to job, maybe he was being exposed from time to time by Duncan or by his own actions. No doubt the medical community is not that different than the Catholic Church that would move around a bad priest rather than discipline him. JED3 meeting Wacko in a coffeehouse in San Francisco, the gay bay, no doubt tells volumes about the guy's background. Lord knows Duncan is gay, although he likes em real young. You gotta think Wacko is the same way or worse since he's also a pediatrician.

Duncan's father was living in SF until 1995, when he died. I thought that may be a link with Whackman. I haven't found an obit for the father though, so I don't know what he died of, or who was mentioned in family/friends. By 1997 when Duncan was in court though, they made the statement that they met in a coffee shop. But by that time of course Whackman "knew" Duncan well enough to offer up a place to stay with his home and family.

[Shazzie]

I don't believe that any of the geocachers are taking any of the speculation personally. We are simply stating that, based on our knowledge and experience playing the game, many of these theories, while perhaps plausible (everything is plausible unless scientifically proven not to be), are simply not probable.


I was the poster who used the term "silly" and it was not intended as an insult to anyone. Once again with both knowledge of geocaching and experience playing the game, many of these theories are simply out of the scope of reality. I wouldn't say that these theories *couldn't* happen, but I highly doubt that any of these theories *did* happen, especially from my standpoint of being a geocacher. (Again, a matter of plausible versus probable.)

In short, many of the theories simply are not compatible with the reality of what geocaching actually is. Just as others have the ability to post their theories of sinister geocaching activities, we geocachers have the ability to dismiss the theories based on our knowledge of the game. ;)

It is clear that we are going to continue to disagree. I just ask that those who are theorizing about geocaching actually give the game and chance so that you get an idea of the inner workings. Many of these theories are simply improbable.
I for one appreciate your knowledgeable input very much, Brains.

I wish I could take you up on your suggestion to try geocaching, but not all of us have a GPS system!

[Sofia]

There's a possibility Dr. Wacko was being blackmailed by Duncan. Duncan knew Wacko was a pedophile, gay or whatever and used that info to extract money ($6500) or support (court testimony) and Wacko risked exposure in the medical community. Wacko moved around a lot from job to job, maybe he was being exposed from time to time by Duncan or by his own actions. No doubt the medical community is not that different than the Catholic Church that would move around a bad priest rather than discipline him. JED3 meeting Wacko in a coffeehouse in San Francisco, the gay bay, no doubt tells volumes about the guy's background. Lord knows Duncan is gay, although he likes em real young. You gotta think Wacko is the same way or worse since he's also a pediatrician.
Being a pedophile is not being gay and liking them real young. Gay has nothing to do with pedophilia.

[Vet4Bush]

I'm sorry, male on male sex at whatever age is still gay. That kind of sex done on prepubescent males is criminal and gay.

[Verity]

Being a pedophile is not being gay and liking them real young. You coudn't be more wrong. That is exactly what a pedophile is.

Gay has nothing to do with pedophilia.Yes it does if the person is attracted to a minor of the same sex.

[Tom'sGirl]

I for one appreciate your knowledgeable input very much, Brains.

I wish I could take you up on your suggestion to try geocaching, but not all of us have a GPS system!If it were not for JET I wouldn't have thought a thing of this article in our local paper today, it would have sounded like fun. Now, it doesn't :rolleyes:

GPS treasures

Exploring while geocaching

By Kenneth Todd Ruiz, Staff Writer

With the press of a button, the digital map on Rich Courtright's fist-sized device morphs into a virtual compass.

He isn't far from the location he seeks global coordinate N 34 8.755 W 117^ 30.741, to be specific.

Courtright's Garmin 60C GPS receiver has led him close to his objective, but he'll revert to low-tech methods to find it. That means picking by hand through dense brush.

"Found it,' he said, plucking a sealed plastic container from behind a large tree.

Courtright isn't a clandestine operative he's indulging in his hobby at Etiwanda Creek Community Park with his wife, Merci, and children, Hailey and J.J. The Rancho Cucamonga family's sport of choice is geocaching. At its essence, geocaching is a global, high-tech scavenger hunt played daily by people around the world.


REST OF STORY......

http://www.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,208~12588~2991646,00.html (http://www.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,208~12588~2991646,00.html)

[Cowgirl]

You coudn't be more wrong. That is exactly what a pedophile is.

Yes it does if the person is attracted to a minor of the same sex.No, Sofia is correct. Pedophilia has nothing to do with gay. Pedophiles like kids and gay people like adults of the same sex. What you are saying is not the truth about pedophiles. Some like both boys or girls, like this freak Duncan. He had a preference to abuse boys but girls were vulnerable too, as long as they were children.

[Cowgirl]

There's a possibility Dr. Wacko was being blackmailed by Duncan. Duncan knew Wacko was a pedophile, gay or whatever and used that info to extract money ($6500) or support (court testimony) and Wacko risked exposure in the medical community. Wacko moved around a lot from job to job, maybe he was being exposed from time to time by Duncan or by his own actions. No doubt the medical community is not that different than the Catholic Church that would move around a bad priest rather than discipline him. JED3 meeting Wacko in a coffeehouse in San Francisco, the gay bay, no doubt tells volumes about the guy's background. Lord knows Duncan is gay, although he likes em real young. You gotta think Wacko is the same way or worse since he's also a pediatrician.I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no proof that the doctor is a pedophile. He really didn't move around "a lot" although he did live for years in the Fargo area and now for years in New Port Richey. I am not going to defend the guy because HE supported a murderous freak out of lust for the murderous freak. But as much as you might want to accuse those who supported this guy, the "medical community" didn't move this doctor. He moved himself. For you to try to tie this in somehow with how the Catholic church ignored the crimes their priests committed against children is wrong. And your "gay bay" remark is pathetic, in my opinion. I am not crazy about the gay life style, but you cannot pin a murderous freak like this on the gay community. That's just not fair. How about if we blame all 42 year old white men? He was that, too.

By the way, I had the same suspicions about the doctor, but they have not proven to be true. He admitted to the parole board that he was bisexual. And I would not want him taking care of my children, but the rest is just conjecture without proof. He was in love with Duncan. And Duncan didn't have to blackmail him. He just told him he needed money and got it, just like any boyfriend would do. It does not have to be blackmail.

[Cowgirl]

Duncan's father was living in SF until 1995, when he died. I thought that may be a link with Whackman. I haven't found an obit for the father though, so I don't know what he died of, or who was mentioned in family/friends. By 1997 when Duncan was in court though, they made the statement that they met in a coffee shop. But by that time of course Whackman "knew" Duncan well enough to offer up a place to stay with his home and family.He didn't die. The report of his death was for someone else. He is alive and well. It was a member here at Websleuths that alleged his death, no one else. And members here have perpetuated the story of his father being dead, including myself, but he is not dead. It was a mistake.

The doctor and Duncan were said to have met in a coffee "house" and not a coffee shop. Totally different place. Coffee house probably meant gay bar.

[Sofia]

You coudn't be more wrong. That is exactly what a pedophile is.

Yes it does if the person is attracted to a minor of the same sex.
:slap:

[Liz]

Snippets from article that may pertain to geocaching below.

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/20050901/dylan-20050901.htm

Internet Sleuths offer to help with Dylan memorial
September 1, 2005
by John Q. Murray

>>> snipped to here >>>

Finding a user named "jetd63" on the site geocaching.com, Cellar Dwellers were also among the first to discover that Duncan used a GPS, a hand-held electronic unit that reads satellite data to calculate one's exact position on the surface of the earth.

Based on a comment Duncan made about the software he had to buy for his GPS, it is likely that he had a Magellan unit. GPS units have become popular among hunters because they can be used to record one's movements and help prevent one from getting lost in rugged terrain. The GPS can be used to record specific locations, called "waypoints," that may identify the exact location of an elk or buck.
Last week, the media reported widely that Duncan used his GPS unit to hunt a different kind of prey. Local television stations and newspapers said that the class III sexual predator recorded the locations of remote homes that had signs of children living there.

Sources confirmed to the Chronicle that Duncan had recorded 33 waypoints on his GPS. Three waypoints were in the vicinity of St. Regis. Other waypoints led FBI officers on a trail from Missoula north along Highway
93.

Each waypoint was in the vicinity of a remote home in the country that had some indication that a child lived there—a swimming pool, swing set, or kids' bikes. For example, one such waypoint was near a house in Ronan, another near a day care in Polson, and one as far north as Kalispell.

>> snip >> Read article in it's entirety at link

[Openmind]

Snippets from article that may pertain to geocaching below.

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/20050901/dylan-20050901.htm

Internet Sleuths offer to help with Dylan memorial
September 1, 2005
by John Q. Murray

>>> snipped to here >>>

Finding a user named "jetd63" on the site geocaching.com, Cellar Dwellers were also among the first to discover that Duncan used a GPS, a hand-held electronic unit that reads satellite data to calculate one's exact position on the surface of the earth.

Based on a comment Duncan made about the software he had to buy for his GPS, it is likely that he had a Magellan unit. GPS units have become popular among hunters because they can be used to record one's movements and help prevent one from getting lost in rugged terrain. The GPS can be used to record specific locations, called "waypoints," that may identify the exact location of an elk or buck.
Last week, the media reported widely that Duncan used his GPS unit to hunt a different kind of prey. Local television stations and newspapers said that the class III sexual predator recorded the locations of remote homes that had signs of children living there.

Sources confirmed to the Chronicle that Duncan had recorded 33 waypoints on his GPS. Three waypoints were in the vicinity of St. Regis. Other waypoints led FBI officers on a trail from Missoula north along Highway
93.

Each waypoint was in the vicinity of a remote home in the country that had some indication that a child lived there—a swimming pool, swing set, or kids' bikes. For example, one such waypoint was near a house in Ronan, another near a day care in Polson, and one as far north as Kalispell.

>> snip >> Read article in it's entirety at link
Heaven help me, but I thought I was past the biggest hurt in this case, but the tokens left by Shasta and Steve for Dylan at the campgound is enough to wring my heart again. I hope "Little Angel" takes comfort in those earthly items he must have cherished in this life. It is a sweet memorial to a beloved son and brother.

Do any of you think it would be more harmful than good to write to the park services encouraging a memorial? I'd would be honored to contirbute to the cost.

The rest of the article is quite unsettling that this monster was plotting his course and victims makes me truly ill. The mean side of GPS.

[Wayne]

Heaven help me, but I thought I was past the biggest hurt in this case, but the tokens left by Shasta and Steve for Dylan at the campgound is enough to wring my heart again. I hope "Little Angel" takes comfort in those earthly items he must have cherished in this life. It is a sweet memorial to a beloved son and brother.

Do any of you think it would be more harmful than good to write to the park services encouraging a memorial? I'd would be honored to contirbute to the cost.

The rest of the article is quite unsettling that this monster was plotting his course and victims makes me truly ill. The mean side of GPS.Thank you, Liz, for posting that article.

And OpenMind, I agree with your statement about this monster was plotting his course and victims makes me truly ill. The mean side of GPS. This monster makes me ill, too.

[tired.old.hag]

Sources confirmed to the Chronicle that Duncan had recorded 33 waypoints on his GPS. Three waypoints were in the vicinity of St. Regis. Other waypoints led FBI officers on a trail from Missoula north along Highway
93.

Each waypoint was in the vicinity of a remote home in the country that had some indication that a child lived there—a swimming pool, swing set, or kids' bikes. For example, one such waypoint was near a house in Ronan, another near a day care in Polson, and one as far north as Kalispell.

Dear jesus. Many of us suspect the extent of this monster's evil, and that he was far from finished. But seeing it in black and white - 33 waypoints to remote homes with children. It just shakes my very soul.

[kline]

A Daycare in Polson......
Ive seen and heard of some bad things and sick individuals but for pure calculated Evil ,Joseph Duncan takes the cake.
This doesnt even remotely have anything to do with mental illness,this is gangrene of the Soul.
Duncan must have been doing some frantic and serious scouting to do Recon on all these sites....the CDA area,St. Regis the Flathead Valley up to Polson And Kalispell.
Thats alot of ground to scout considering the time frame involved.
I guess we can only hope those target possibilties were mapped by him and not Given to him...

[close_enough]

Each waypoint was in the vicinity of a remote home in the country that had some indication that a child lived there—a swimming pool, swing set, or kids' bikes. For example, one such waypoint was near a house in Ronan, another near a day care in Polson, and one as far north as Kalispell.

omg.... :(