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Richard
07-04-2005, 10:24 AM
The Indiana Dunes State Park Mystery July 1966: Three missing women

Renee Bruhl
Missing since July 2, 1966 from Indiana Dunes State Park, Indiana
Classification: Endangered Missing Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: 1947
Age at Time of Disappearance: 19 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'9"
Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair; hazel eyes. Bruhl's maiden name is "Slunecko."
Clothing: Bathing suit
The Doe Network: Case File 384DFIN
---------------------------------------
Ann Miller
Missing since July 2, 1966 from Indiana Dunes State Park, Indiana.
Classification: Endangered Missing Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: 1945
Age at Time of Disappearance: 21 years old
Height and Weight: 5'2"
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; blue eyes.
Clothing: A two-piece blue bathing suit with a red belt.
The Doe Network: Case File 656DFIN
--------------------------------------------
Patricia Blough
Missing since July 2, 1966 from Indiana Dunes State Park, Indiana
Classification: Endangered Missing Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: 1947
Age at Time of Disappearance: 19 years old
Height and Weight: 5'4"; 115 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Brown hair; brown eyes.
Clothing: Bathingsuit
AKA: Patty
The Doe Network: Case File 662DFIN
------------------------------------
Circumstances of Disappearance

Renee Bruhl, Patricia Blough, and Ann Miller, disappeared from the Indiana Dunes State Park in Indiana on July 2, 1966.

The women arrived at the Indiana Dunes State Park at approximately 10:00 AM. Miller parked in the park's lot and the women hiked to a spot approximately 100 yards from the Lake Michigan shoreline. A couple reported seeing the women leave their belongings on the beach at approximately 12:00 PM and enter the lake together. The witnesses saw them speaking to an unidentified man operating a 14 - 16 foot-long white boat with a blue interior and and outboard motor sometime afterwards. The couple reported their observations to a park ranger around dusk when they noticed that the women's belongings were still sitting unclaimed on the beach. The witnesses stated that the women went aboard the boat and headed west with the driver.

The park rangers soon learned that missing persons' reports had been filed for Blough, Miller and Bruhl over the weekend in Illinois by their families. The rangers began investigating the park and located Miller's Buick in the parking lot. Her car keys had been located with her belongings and some items of the women's clothing and other personal effects were still inside the vehicle.
The park rangers contacted other law enforcement agencies, including the United States Coast Guard. A search for the missing women was initiated on July 5, three days after the women disappeared. Additional witnesses came forward with conflicting stories regarding the women's last known movements, but authorities believe that the first witnesses' reports stating that the women were seen boarding a boat were the most reliable.

More witnesses began substantiating the initial reports that the women entered a white boat operated by an unidentified man. Later accounts described the male as in his early twenties with a tanned complexion and dark, wavy hair. He was wearing a beach jacket at the time. A visitor was filming home movies at the state park on July 2 and offered his reels to investigators. The search was immediately narrowed to two boats once authorities viewed the footage. One was a fiberglass 16 - 18-foot long trimaran runabout with a three-hulled design, which was operated by a man fitting the description of the unidentified driver. Three females matching the missing women were seen aboard the smaller boat in the footage. The second boat identified was a 26 - 28-foot Trojan cabin cruiser with three men aboard along with three women. The cabin cruiser was seen at approximately 3:00 PM, three hours after the women entered the smaller vessel. Investigators believe that the women may have been dropped off on the beach by the driver of the smaller boat while he drove back to retrieve two male friends and the cabin cruiser. Blough, Miller and Bruhl were reportedly seen eating and walking along the sand dunes after this time. They were approached by another unidentified man, who accompanied them on to the cabin cruiser. Witnesses stated that the cabin cruiser was equipped with a radio / telephone antenna, but apparently did not have a name printed on its stern. This final sighting has never been confirmed, but is considered reliable by authorities.
Investigators began researching the women's backgrounds in an attempt to discover if their disappearances were voluntary. Authorities found that there may have been problems in Bruhl's marriage, though her family denied it. All three women were horse enthusiasts, which pointed to a possible connection with criminal activity. Blough and Miller met while boarding their horses at the same Illinois stable. Bruhl was a high school classmate of Blough's, which is how the three women were connected. Miller was employed as a horse exerciser at Oak Brook Polo Club at the time she vanished. She and Blough were associated with men who had criminal backgrounds in the horse market. Blough was reportedly having problems with 'horse syndicate people' in the spring and summer of 1966.

Miller's friends told authorities that she was three months pregnant in July of 1966 and mentioned entering a home for unwed mothers prior to her disappearance. Miller's possible pregnancy has never been confirmed. Blough was a very skilled swimmer who could swim 20 - 30 miles; Miller was thought to possess similar abilities and Bruhl's family stated that she had fair swimming skills. Drowning was considered a possibility in the disappearances, but unlikely. There have been many unconfirmed sightings of the three women throughout the years, but leads never surfaced. The boats they were reportedly seen boarding on July 2, 1966 have never been located, nor have the unidentified men spotted on the vessels been seen again. Debris from an apparent boat wreck were discovered near the Bailly Generating Station Of Northern Indiana Public Service Company on Lake Michigan shortly after the July 2 disappearances. There were no reports of any missing boats the day the women vanished and authorities do not know if the debris is connected to their cases.

Blough, Miller and Bruhl frequently rode horses at Tri Color Stables in Palatine, Illinois in 1966. The stables were owned by George Jayne, a prominent horse dealer. George and his brother, Silas Jayne, were involved in a bitter argument over horse dealing during the mid-1960's. Cheryl Ann Rude, a young woman associated with the horse market, was killed at Tri Color Stables in June 1965 by a car bomb discovered to be intended for George. Investigators have explored the possibility that Blough, Miller and / or Bruhl may have witnessed the bomb being planted one year prior to their disappearances. It has never been proven. George and Silas' phone numbers were discovered in the belongings of one of the missing women in 1966. None of the men have been proven to have been involved with Blough, Miller and Bruhl's disappearances.
Silas Jayne reportedly told a sheriff that he had three bodies buried underneath his residence some time after the women's 1966 disappearances. Law enforcement took the comment seriously and planned to search Silas' property; the sheriff involved was killed in a farming accident before the search took place. As a result, the lead was left cold.
The Indiana Dunes State Park where Blough, Miller and Bruhl were last seen is now called the Indiana Dunes National Lakeshore.

If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Indiana State Police 219-269-4747

Source Information:
The Indiana Dunes State Park Mystery

links:
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/384dfin.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/656dfin.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/662dfin.html

azure
07-04-2005, 12:16 PM
There's really no doubt in my mind that Silas Jayne was involved in the disappearance and murder of these three women. He was a very evil man who committed literally hundreds of crimes over the years and used intimidation and outright murder to cover them up.
Here is a link to an article that details Silas Jayne's criminal activities:
http://www.ipsn.org/news/blood_feud_by_gene_oshea.htm

It's very long, but it does make mention of the three missing women:
"A few months later, three young horse enthusiasts—Ann Miller, 21, Patty Blough, 19, and Renee Bruhl, 19—disappeared and have long been presumed murdered. The three were last seen getting into a blue-and-white speedboat at the Indiana Dunes State Park on July 2, 1966. Hamm and federal agents say that the girls may have seen who planted the bomb that killed Rude, and that Si may have been behind their disappearance. The case remains unsolved to this day."

Richard
02-03-2006, 06:14 PM
There's really no doubt in my mind that Silas Jayne was involved in the disappearance and murder of these three women. He was a very evil man who committed literally hundreds of crimes over the years and used intimidation and outright murder to cover them up.
Here is a link to an article that details Silas Jayne's criminal activities:
http://www.ipsn.org/news/blood_feud_by_gene_oshea.htm

It's very long, but it does make mention of the three missing women:
It is an interesting article which does mention the three girls. I tend to have some doubts about the story, however. If this guy Jayne was into hiring professional hit met, why would he have some young guy in a motor boat pick up the three girls? Think of the variables involved: The girls had to be in the water at the time - otherwise how would he have gotten them into his boat? What kind of plan would rely on something like that? And sending one guy to get three girls? In front of so many witnesses? And leaving their stuff behind on shore? It just doesn't sound like a professional hit at all.

The statement that federal agents believe this is what happened to the girls does not ring true. Feds usually don't engage in such speculation without some solid evidence and then only through FBI media public affairs officers. For them to say that they think Jaynes did it, but for them NOT to have the evidence to present - they just wouldn't say that, because it makes them look inept and stupid when they "know" who did it and can't get him.

Any other theories or thoughts on this case?

Mullins
02-07-2006, 03:31 PM
Seems like searching the property as planned before the sheriff's death would be the most logical place to start. Wonder what prevented that from moving forward?


QUOTE: Silas Jayne reportedly told a sheriff that he had three bodies buried underneath his residence some time after the women's 1966 disappearances. Law enforcement took the comment seriously and planned to search Silas' property; the sheriff involved was killed in a farming accident before the search took place. As a result, the lead was left cold.

Richard
02-07-2006, 03:45 PM
Seems like searching the property as planned before the sheriff's death would be the most logical place to start. Wonder what prevented that from moving forward?
QUOTE: Silas Jayne reportedly told a sheriff that he had three bodies buried underneath his residence some time after the women's 1966 disappearances. Law enforcement took the comment seriously and planned to search Silas' property; the sheriff involved was killed in a farming accident before the search took place. As a result, the lead was left cold.


I can only speculate that it was the Sheriff who wanted to get the Search Warrant, and with his death went some (or all) of the witness evidence needed to obtain the warrant. If all had been done correctly, the Sheriff's successor Should have been able to obtain a warrant and conduct the search. For that matter, if any credence can be placed on the statement of Jayne, the present Sheriff should be able to obtain a search warrant.

2sisters
02-07-2006, 06:04 PM
Was the sherrif's death of natural causes? If they aren't on that property the I would venture to say the next place is in the bottom of the lake, but that will be like finding a needle in a haystack due to the size of it.

peters
02-09-2006, 07:49 PM
Another problem with the Silas Jaynes-Cherie Rude case link to the Indiana Dunes Mystery is that several of George Jaynes' employees saw the bombing suspects and even helped the police prepare a sketch of one that was printed in the Tribune. No one killed these witnesses, whose names were printed in the newspaper.

The theory is that the bomb was planted in the car in an approximately 20 minute period between its last use and the explosion. During this time two men arrived at the stables in a gray 1959 Buick and one of the men talked with the stable manager and a female employee about boarding a horse. The supposition was that this was a diversion while the bomb was planted. The men were never seen again.

Mullins
02-10-2006, 02:11 PM
The girls might have fallen prey to other abductors not related to the Jaynes. Opportunists who worked in a group, most otherwise likely.Seems like the abductors would have disposed of/buried them there somewhere around the lake (were cadaver dogs used?) Or maybe they were transported somewhere else to avoid the girl's being id'd.

Another problem with the Silas Jaynes-Cherie Rude case link to the Indiana Dunes Mystery is that several of George Jaynes' employees saw the bombing suspects and even helped the police prepare a sketch of one that was printed in the Tribune. No one killed these witnesses, whose names were printed in the newspaper.

The theory is that the bomb was planted in the car in an approximately 20 minute period between its last use and the explosion. During this time two men arrived at the stables in a gray 1959 Buick and one of the men talked with the stable manager and a female employee about boarding a horse. The supposition was that this was a diversion while the bomb was planted. The men were never seen again.

peters
02-10-2006, 09:30 PM
The key element is that the search did not begin until July 5th, the third day after the girls disappeared.

It's not clear what caused the delay except for the July 4th weekend. The families knew where the girls had gone and apparently filed missing persons reports over the weekend. To me, it is a little surprising they didn't drive out to the beach themselves. By the time the search started, the trail had become muddled.

Although Richard is correct that the cabin cruiser connection was considered reliable by law enforcement, news stories from the time are not so clear cut. First police reported that they had located 3 men from Michigan City who had accosted the girls in chin-deep water and offered them a ride on their cabin cruiser. The girls were said to have declined. Later, the police discounted the story and said that the men had talked with three other girls. The second cabin cruiser story came from a lawyer who admited that he saw three girls get into such a boat at a distance, but that he could not be sure it was the missing three.

The lead investigators for years hypothesized that the girls' "personal problems" led them to stage a voluntary disappearance. However, they believed that something went wrong and the girls ended up murdered, perhaps far from the dunes.

PonderingThings
02-27-2006, 04:40 PM
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/RBruhl.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/447UFPAphotos2.jpg
Renee on left, unknown on right

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/PBlough.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/447UFPA.jpg
Patricia on left, Unknown on right

http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/AnMiller.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/447UFPAphotos1.jpg
Ann on left, Unknown on right

Could it be? Or is it just because of bad photos to compare to?

If this does make sense, the photos were most likely taken one year later as the photo of the unknown woman was taken in 1967 at Expo67 in Montreal, Quebec Canada.

The bodies turned up a year after that in 1968.

Talk about long shots but the resemblences are there... what are the odds?
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/485ufpa.html

MaryLiz
07-02-2006, 09:40 PM
Just bumping this one up...today is the 40th anniversary. I was searching for some new newspaper articles for any updates but couldn't find anything yet.

I'm just sure Silas Jayne and his Chicago horse mafia had something to do with these girl's disappearances as mentioned in the article Richard posted at the top, but I don't know if we'll ever find out what happened.

MaryLiz
07-03-2007, 11:59 AM
Bumping up case..it has been 41 years yesterday (July 2) that these 3 girls disappeared. Unfortunately, no new leads and nothing posted on them since a year ago July 2.

Richard
07-03-2007, 12:22 PM
Here are some updated links to the Doenetwork files on these three girls>

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/384dfin.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/656dfin.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/662dfin.html

InterestedNHelping
07-03-2007, 12:35 PM
Anyone know if there is a picture of George Jaynes out there? I would REALLY like to see what he looks like. Thanks

FLMom
07-03-2007, 02:27 PM
Three women missing after being seen in a boat?

Wonder where Oba Chandler lived during this time frame?

MaryLiz
07-03-2007, 03:17 PM
Anyone know if there is a picture of George Jaynes out there? I would REALLY like to see what he looks like. Thanks

Up above in post #2 is an article that was in the Chicago Magazine from June 2002. About 4 years ago when I read the article online FROM the actual magazine there were photos of them. But I tried to bring it up again and couldn't. So far, that is the only place I could find photos of Silas or George was in that magazine article. The article is very interesting though.

MaryLiz
07-03-2007, 03:22 PM
Here are some updated links to the Doenetwork files on these three girls>

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/384dfin.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/656dfin.html

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/662dfin.html

Thanks Richard, for the updates. I am going to e-mail the Doe Network tonight though because the photos are identified wrong. I have a subscription to NewspaperArchives.com now and I have been looking up old news articles about this case and it has the correct name under each of their photos in the old articles.

The first link above for their case on the Doe Network says Renee Bruhl but that is actually Ann Miller.

The second link says the photo is Ann Miller but that is actually Patricia Blough.

The third link says Patricia Blough and that is really Renee Bruhl.

I don't know how they got mixed up. But so far every article I have looked at from 1966 has their pictures all the same and correctly identified under each one. Unfortunately, I can't copy and paste any of the articles with the pictures on here. The older articles when it first happened are quite interesting.

Richard
07-04-2007, 10:37 AM
... the photos are identified wrong. ...

The first link above for their case on the Doe Network says Renee Bruhl but that is actually Ann Miller.

The second link says the photo is Ann Miller but that is actually Patricia Blough.

The third link says Patricia Blough and that is really Renee Bruhl. ....


This reminds me of an old song about a group of folk singers who start mixing politics with their music. The chorus went something like this:

The one on the right was on the left,
and the one in the middle was on the right,
and the one on the left was in the middle,
and the guy in the rear got drafted.

MaryLiz
07-04-2007, 07:18 PM
This reminds me of an old song about a group of folk singers who start mixing politics with their music. The chorus went something like this:

The one on the right was on the left,
and the one in the middle was on the right,
and the one on the left was in the middle,
and the guy in the rear got drafted.

LOL!

I e-mailed Doe Network and she said she would check it out. Hopefully they can at least get the right photo with the right girl!

KarlK
07-29-2007, 08:22 PM
Was the sherrif's death of natural causes?

It says he was killed in a farming accident.

MaryLiz
06-12-2008, 07:24 AM
Bumping up case....in about 3 weeks it will have been 42 years now since these 3 women disappeared.

MaryLiz
07-02-2008, 07:35 AM
Bumping....they disappeared 42 years ago today.

gaia227
04-21-2009, 01:33 PM
Bumping.

These are the cases that really get me. 3 women just disappear without a trace never to be seen again.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6865/mystery.html


This is a very long, indepth article/essay into Silas and George Jayne and into the horse business. Silas Jayne was most certainly a bad person who did some awful things.
http://www.thelaborers.net/NEWS/blood_feud_by_gene_o.htm

MaryLiz
04-21-2009, 02:53 PM
Bumping.

These are the cases that really get me. 3 women just disappear without a trace never to be seen again.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/6865/mystery.html


This is a very long, indepth article/essay into Silas and George Jayne and into the horse business. Silas Jayne was most certainly a bad person who did some awful things.
http://www.thelaborers.net/NEWS/blood_feud_by_gene_o.htm

Thanks for bumping this, gaia. I've almost bumped it a couple times since the anniversary date of their disappearance last July but there has been absolutely nothing new and I just never bumped it again.

This one really gets me, too. Another disappearance of THREE women! Thanks also for posting the link to that article again. I've read it before but other people should read it too. I just really believe Silas Jayne was in some way responsible for their disappearance. One of the business cards for his stables was found in one of the girl's billfold. It may be coincidence, but with all 3 girls being horse enthusiasts, the connection to Silas Jayne must strongly be considered. The number of cases involving murder and disappearances linked to him is astounding. I really believe he had something to do with this.

MaryLiz
07-02-2009, 08:37 AM
Bumping on the 43rd anniversary of their disappearance; Patricia Blough, Ann Miller, and Renee Bruhl. They vanished from the Indiana Dunes State Park on July 2, 1966.


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/blough_patricia.html


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/miller_ann.html


http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bruhl_renee.html

gaia227
07-02-2009, 10:14 AM
This is one of those cases that just drives you nuts.

Sad - I did a google news search to see if any local papers ran an anniversary story and didn't see anything.

MaryLiz
07-02-2009, 11:51 AM
This is one of those cases that just drives you nuts.

Sad - I did a google news search to see if any local papers ran an anniversary story and didn't see anything.

I checked for news articles, too. I was really hoping the Chicago Tribune or the local paper for the city nearest the Dunes in Chesterton, IN would do an updated article. I think the last one written was around 2002, or sometime around then.

It's odd, but I can very nearly remember what I was doing around that time. Ordinarily, I probably wouldn't remember that far back so vividly, but I went to summer camp for the first time in July 1966. I went the first week in July. I remember leaving the day after the 4th, so I was getting ready to go then, and was so excited. It's strange to think back on that time now and think about what happened to those girls that weekend. Maybe that's why this case haunts me so, is the fact that I can pretty much remember what I was doing at the time.

kline
07-03-2009, 11:31 AM
Yeah this one of those cases that is baffling.
I know what you mean there are a few cases where I can place myself precisely in time when they were happening.
It lends kind of spooky imediacy to them.

gaia227
07-03-2009, 04:01 PM
Yeah this one of those cases that is baffling.
I know what you mean there are a few cases where I can place myself precisely in time when they were happening.
It lends kind of spooky imediacy to them.


That is the kinda of connection I have with the three missing women from Springfield, MO (sub-forum in Cold Cases). I was born and raised in Springfield and was 12 when they vanished. I remember their posters plastered all over the city, the constant news coverage, the van the police parked outside the police department they thought was similar to the one spotted that night. I was staying with my dad that summer because my mother was in the Middle East on a archaelogical dig and my step-sisters and I would stay up and speculate on what we thought happened. It didn't seem possible that 17 yrs later we still wouldn't know.

Cincinnati Kid
10-05-2009, 09:15 AM
I feel the disappearance of the three had nothing to do with any doings of the Jayne family. Although doing such things in crowded places such as a July 4th weekend at a park isn't unheard of, I don't think that was the case in this instance. I once read that it is more dangerous to accept a ride on a boat than it is in a car. Apparently, the girls were taken in by one of more individuals who wanted more than offering them a boat ride. Perhaps once they were out on the lake and far from shore, one of the males on the boat tried to force himself on one of the girls. This may have led to a confrontation that resulted in a decision that all three of them had to be done away with. That leads to the question, what happened to the bodies? They could have been weighted down and dropped into the depths of Lake Michigan or buried somewhere along the shore, far from the beach area, or farther inland. I wonder what the condition of the film taken on the beach that day is? Could it now be viewed with more modern equipment in hopes of viewing the license that was the on the boat the girls went on or other features that could be used in identification? Although it has been over 43 years, you would hope this matter could be solved or at least more information be obtained.

MaryLiz
10-05-2009, 10:11 AM
I feel the disappearance of the three had nothing to do with any doings of the Jayne family. Although doing such things in crowded places such as a July 4th weekend at a park isn't unheard of, I don't think that was the case in this instance. I once read that it is more dangerous to accept a ride on a boat than it is in a car. Apparently, the girls were taken in by one of more individuals who wanted more than offering them a boat ride. Perhaps once they were out on the lake and far from shore, one of the males on the boat tried to force himself on one of the girls. This may have led to a confrontation that resulted in a decision that all three of them had to be done away with. That leads to the question, what happened to the bodies? They could have been weighted down and dropped into the depths of Lake Michigan or buried somewhere along the shore, far from the beach area, or farther inland. I wonder what the condition of the film taken on the beach that day is? Could it now be viewed with more modern equipment in hopes of viewing the license that was the on the boat the girls went on or other features that could be used in identification? Although it has been over 43 years, you would hope this matter could be solved or at least more information be obtained.

Good points. I have long thought Silas Jayne was responsible for their disappearance simply because of their connections to one another, (two of the girls apparently rode at his stables), and because Jayne was responsible for so many crimes between the 1950s and 1970s. But it's also been in the back of my mind that they simply accepted a boat ride from someone and things somehow went wrong, like you suggested. I live about 3 1/2 hours from the Indiana Dunes and I have often thought of driving there to look at the case files and wondered if I could see the films that were taken that day, too. I've always been intrigued with the films and would love to see them. It would definitely be eerie to view the films and actually see the girls on there. But you're right, with so much new technology since 1966, you would think the films could be viewed now and maybe new details would show up that weren't seen back then.

gaia227
10-06-2009, 02:07 PM
Would the police let you look at the case files, Cambria? Are you able to view them under the freedom of information act or something?

MaryLiz
10-06-2009, 08:39 PM
Would the police let you look at the case files, Cambria? Are you able to view them under the freedom of information act or something?

I'm sure I could look at the case files under the Freedom of Information Act. I think about going a lot since it's within a decent driving distance. But I don't want to go by myself, and I'll probably wait until next spring when the weather gets nice again after this coming winter is over. I would contact them and ask them if I could see the files...but I would really love to see the film. :)

Another WSer, Marilynilpa, who is working on the Alice Parsons cold case, plans to go to Suffolk Co. NY to look at her case file and she is using the FOI Act to gain access to those records, so I think it would be possible.

Spud
10-27-2009, 04:48 PM
As somebody stated earlier, the chances of anyone like Silas Jayne planning this are non-existent.Too many variables involved. Their abduction was obviously a crime of opportunity and i can not believe that no one has stated the obvious suspect. Richard Speck. His ship came in in mid June and these 3 girls disappeared 11 days before the 8 nurses were slaughtered in Chicago. It is a mere 40 miles from where the girls were murdered. I don`t know how well Speck was questioned , if he had a good alibi or if he had access to a boat but 2 weeks later he was behind bars for good and no more girls disappeared like that.

theforgotten
10-27-2009, 05:51 PM
Bumping!

Cincinnati Kid
10-29-2009, 02:11 PM
Although it sounds like something that would be quite interesting to view and any interest in this case is certainly justified and most welcome, I question if the authorities would permit the viewing of the film that was taken that day. I feel that is especially true since the investigation could be considered on-going (although, of course, a true cold case) since the girls have never been found or their fates truly determined. I would hope that this film evidence could be viewed with 21st Century technology that could show faces of the people (both the young girls & others on board) along with possible indentification information of the watercraft. My guess is the film in question was a "Super 8" type that was just becoming popular at that time rather than the more established 16 millimeter. From what I have seen, the Indiana State Police is the office who has the jurisdiction in this case.

MaryLiz
10-29-2009, 04:02 PM
Although it sounds like something that would be quite interesting to view and any interest in this case is certainly justified and most welcome, I question if the authorities would permit the viewing of the film that was taken that day. I feel that is especially true since the investigation could be considered on-going (although, of course, a true cold case) since the girls have never been found or their fates truly determined. I would hope that this film evidence could be viewed with 21st Century technology that could show faces of the people (both the young girls & others on board) along with possible indentification information of the watercraft. My guess is the film in question was a "Super 8" type that was just becoming popular at that time rather than the more established 16 millimeter. From what I have seen, the Indiana State Police is the office who has the jurisdiction in this case.

I don't know that I could get to see the films. I could probably look at the files with the Freedom of Information Act. But I wish I could get a gander at the films, especially like you said, with 21st Century techology. I just think it would be fascinating and eerie to see them alive and possibly close up. But like I said before, it's about 3 1/2 hours away. If I contacted the Indiana State Police about seeing the files, and told them I had an interest in the case, and wanted to write an online article about it or something, it wouldn't be until next year when summer rolls around again. I just wish a reporter would write an updated article for the newspaper and bring it to the public's attention again. I can't remember when the last "anniversary" article was written, I think sometime around 2002 maybe? These cases need to be kept in the public eye. I don't mean the local paper has to publish an article every year, but at least every few years so people don't forget.

MaryLiz
10-29-2009, 04:13 PM
As somebody stated earlier, the chances of anyone like Silas Jayne planning this are non-existent.Too many variables involved. Their abduction was obviously a crime of opportunity and i can not believe that no one has stated the obvious suspect. Richard Speck. His ship came in in mid June and these 3 girls disappeared 11 days before the 8 nurses were slaughtered in Chicago. It is a mere 40 miles from where the girls were murdered. I don`t know how well Speck was questioned , if he had a good alibi or if he had access to a boat but 2 weeks later he was behind bars for good and no more girls disappeared like that.

Wow, I never thought about Richard Speck. You're right, the timing is perfect for him. I don't know that he was questioned at all about this case. Murdering those 8 nurses was such a heinous crime, I wonder if the police even thought to make a connection between the 2 cases. Since these 3 girls disappeared and weren't found murdered, they probably seemed like completely different cases at the time. That's very interesting that you brought him up in regards to this case.

Cincinnati Kid
11-24-2009, 04:45 PM
Although it is possible and does make you think, I don't believe that Richard Speck was involved in this matter. Speck seemed more like the kind who could almost melt into the intercity, especially a place the size of Chicago, to commit his crimes rather than travel out of his element to somewhere like Indiana Dunes State Park. Working as a loner, Speck was able to tie up and then kill the nurses as each returned to the facility where they lived. Remember, he also lost count of who he had captured which led to the one girl being able to elude being murdered. In the case of the three missing girls it very well could have taken two, three or more people to subdue them even if they were out on the water. Just my thoughts, but admitedly the Speck angle does present a possibility.

kevmob77
11-25-2009, 12:03 PM
I don't believe for a minute that Richard Speck was involved. First, he was a very disorganized killer, with no regard as to who, when, or where his victims would be found as he didn't care.

I grew up near the Arlington Race Track in Illinois, and this case was always brought up, as was Helen Brach's. The horse racing business was and still is a somewhat shady business. When the fire happened "mysteriously" at the track in 1985, well, no one in Illinois really believed it was an accident. The track that opened back up in 1989 was nothing like it was. It is now one of the most beautiful in the country, next To Del Mar in North San Diego. It was a beaten down track before the fire.

I think the main link here is Richard Bailey. Whatever venture Bailey was involved in, trouble or disappearances usually came with it. Take Helen Brach. While he may not have personally killed Helen Brach, there is no doubt in my personal opinion that he was involved.

As far as the Indiana Dunes case, somebody involved in the horse racket business would have no problem getting rid of a perceived problem if the young women maybe knew a little too much or feared they might snitch. My take is that if this is indeed what happened, it was planned almost to perfection. Could Bailey and his cohorts have known of their plans to go to the Dunes and had someone waiting for them, using a ruse as a friendly boater to gain their trust, etc? Very possible and I think likely. The reason no bodies haven't been found is because it is likely they were not simply buried somewhere haphazardly. That is not the way these people do business. Richard Speck would be sloppy like that, and in my mind eliminates him completely. Another reason no bodies have been located is that many key players in the horse trade then are now deceased.

kemo
11-25-2009, 03:27 PM
It seems like the Illinois Horsey scene was seriously "mobbed up" in the 1960's. There was a lot of criminal activity and a lot of killings. A lot of people involved seemed to have been willing to kill to promote/protect their business interests. None of the women seemed to have been involved in the "business" end. They were just Horsey types who hung out at the tracks and stables. Ann Miller worked at a track but it was pretty low level. Attractive young women who "hung out" were bound to have caught the eye of the "players" who were involved in the business. There were rumors that Ann Miller was pregnant. Does anyone know who the father was? Could he have been one of the "players"? (My guess is that Ann didn't date stable boys).

It seems that the women were lured on board a nice cabin crusier before they were abducted and murdered. It would be a very unlikely contract "hit". It was far more likely either a charming sexual preditor or someone one of the women knew. An inconvenient pregnancy is a common motive for murder and the other women could have just been wrong place/wrong time.

MaryLiz
11-25-2009, 07:05 PM
Here's a new article that was written in August of this year that I missed. No new info, but Dick Wylie, former Northwest Indiana bureau chief for the Chicago Sun-Times has gathered a lot of information on the case and hopes to write a book about it.

http://nwitimes.com/news/local/article_3df371d6-0ba6-5611-bfa6-9af13f00f34c.html

kevmob77
11-25-2009, 08:44 PM
It seems like the Illinois Horsey scene was seriously "mobbed up" in the 1960's. There was a lot of criminal activity and a lot of killings. A lot of people involved seemed to have been willing to kill to promote/protect their business interests. None of the women seemed to have been involved in the "business" end. They were just Horsey types who hung out at the tracks and stables. Ann Miller worked at a track but it was pretty low level. Attractive young women who "hung out" were bound to have caught the eye of the "players" who were involved in the business. There were rumors that Ann Miller was pregnant. Does anyone know who the father was? Could he have been one of the "players"? (My guess is that Ann didn't date stable boys).

It seems that the women were lured on board a nice cabin crusier before they were abducted and murdered. It would be a very unlikely contract "hit". It was far more likely either a charming sexual preditor or someone one of the women knew. An inconvenient pregnancy is a common motive for murder and the other women could have just been wrong place/wrong time.

Although the women weren't involved in the business end of the horse trade, being around the stable and having daily contact with the horses is sometimes some of the best information that can be known about a horses potential or flaws. Much of the horse trade at the time, especially concerning participants Richard Bailey and the Jayne brothers, often bought and sold dysfunctional horses on the cheap to unsuspecting buyers who though they were buying a top-bred horse who could compete at the racing meets. Working in the stables, is it possible that these women were aware of the lack of talent or injury these horses had and maybe talked to each other and eventually told the unsuspecting owners about it? Often times, owners make visits to see how the horse is doing, etc. Maybe it wasn't even intentional on the part of the women, but a line to an owner such as "Sir, this horse is broken down" probably wouldn't sit too well with the owner. The owner in turn would confront the buyer. If this did happen, then it can be assumed that the people involved in the trade dealt with this swiftly and methodically.

There was a case in Florida in October 1966 that is quite similar to this case, the disappearance of Pamela Nater and Nancy Leichner. It is presumed that Gerard John Schaefer Jr. is responsible for their presumed homicides: See http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/n/nater_pamela.html

Is anyone here on WS aware if this was ever looked into?

Spud
01-16-2010, 12:52 AM
Kevmob was pretty quick to dismiss Richard Speck as a "disorganized" killer who was somehow was organized enough managed to murder 8 women only 11 days after these 3 young women went missing but thinks that the Chicago Syndicate would whack 3 innocents who liked to go horsey back riding. Living near the race track makes him as big an expert on the horse industry as living near the the hospital qualifies me as a doctor........ Around 20 years ago , I saw an interview with a retired homicide detective from the Chicago Police who worked on this case and it was his belief that Speck was the killer ..... Richard Bailey was a gigolo who preyed on rich old women. This was not a planned hit by organized crime but likely a disorganized rape/ murder or a fight gone wrong in the middle of the lake or in a remote shoreline location............ Speck surely proved that he had the ability to handle multiple victims with a combination of smooth talk and threats. It was probably dumb luck that the murderer was able to conceal the bodies and the evidence on the boat. Remember that this was a small 14-18 foot boat that was likely trailered to the lake, those girls may have even been towed away in the boat. The fact is that 3 days passed before the investigation began and then once that unmailed letter that Renee Bruhl had written was found , the police thought it was a 3 way runaway. The killer or killers had a big head start to conceal the evidence........... I have talked to many seniors who remember details of all the big cases from the Lipstick Killer to Gacy who simply do not recall this case. This was nearly a cold case before it even began because of that letter. Then it was buried by Speck`s "crime of the century" coverage....... The fact is that this M.O. on this case is completely unique ........ The murder of multiple women at one time is extremely rare too but Richard Speck did it right down the road only 11 days later........ I have no idea where he may have gotten a boat but i think he got one. He cannot be dismissed out of hand and given the likelihood of having 2 killers knocking off women 3 and 8 at a time in this close of a proximity, he should be the odds on favorite as a suspect.

kevmob77
01-16-2010, 01:04 PM
Kevmob was pretty quick to dismiss Richard Speck as a "disorganized" killer who was somehow was organized enough managed to murder 8 women only 11 days after these 3 young women went missing but thinks that the Chicago Syndicate would whack 3 innocents who liked to go horsey back riding. Living near the race track makes him as big an expert on the horse industry as living near the the hospital qualifies me as a doctor........ Around 20 years ago , I saw an interview with a retired homicide detective from the Chicago Police who worked on this case and it was his belief that Speck was the killer ..... Richard Bailey was a gigolo who preyed on rich old women. This was not a planned hit by organized crime but likely a disorganized rape/ murder or a fight gone wrong in the middle of the lake or in a remote shoreline location............ Speck surely proved that he had the ability to handle multiple victims with a combination of smooth talk and threats. It was probably dumb luck that the murderer was able to conceal the bodies and the evidence on the boat. Remember that this was a small 14-18 foot boat that was likely trailered to the lake, those girls may have even been towed away in the boat. The fact is that 3 days passed before the investigation began and then once that unmailed letter that Renee Bruhl had written was found , the police thought it was a 3 way runaway. The killer or killers had a big head start to conceal the evidence........... I have talked to many seniors who remember details of all the big cases from the Lipstick Killer to Gacy who simply do not recall this case. This was nearly a cold case before it even began because of that letter. Then it was buried by Speck`s "crime of the century" coverage....... The fact is that this M.O. on this case is completely unique ........ The murder of multiple women at one time is extremely rare too but Richard Speck did it right down the road only 11 days later........ I have no idea where he may have gotten a boat but i think he got one. He cannot be dismissed out of hand and given the likelihood of having 2 killers knocking off women 3 and 8 at a time in this close of a proximity, he should be the odds on favorite as a suspect.

Thanks Spud for misquoting me as an expert in this case, I am not. Nor are you. But if you get a chance to do some reading sometime, do a little bit on Richard Speck. Your theory on Speck makes no sense. First of a few things I'll mention here: 1.) Speck was a loner who didn't have access to money, yet you think as broke as he was he decided, hey, I'll go rent a boat and go all the way to the Dunes and pull this off, then go all the way back to the Chicago area. His past crimes indicate that he wasn't the type to conceal bodies. He really didn't care. 2.) Do you believe Speck with his charming looks and jailhouse talk could convince 3 young women to go out on a boat with him? Really? A blitz-style attack, sure, but then that begs the question again, where are the bodies? One other thing. Speck couldn't keep his mouth shut if his life depended on it, yet he never mentioned a word about this even though he obviously was looked at as a possible suspect. Makes no sense. Again, thank you for taking what I wrote out of context. Keep up the good work.

HesterMofet
01-16-2010, 08:21 PM
I agree with Kevmob77. There is no way Speck did this. He was seriously creepy looking and no way would these girls be charmed enough by him to go for a boat ride. Speck was able to kill those eight women because he went into their space and had privacy and many of them were submissive foreigners. The criminal who abducted the three women had to be clever. Speck couldn't even keep count of how many he had in the apartment! I had a co-worker who was a guard in the Cook County Jail while Speck was there and said he was about as sharp as a butter knife and sat around all day drawing Disney characters.

Most likely, this had something to do with the horse business. Or was totally random, which would be odd given the girls' connections to horses and the business in Illinois. Silas Jayne was always known to be crooked. This is not something that came up after his death. He would come into my in-laws bar once in a while and was not a very well liked character, but he was seen as a crook, not as dangerous. It was only later that things came out that implied that he and his brother were more ruthless than first thought. I would not doubt the girls' overheard something, saw something or asked the wrong questions of the wrong people. Maybe Ann was pregnant by someone who did not want the responsibility. Either way, I think someone connected with the Jaynes is far more likely to be a suspected than Speck.

Spud
01-17-2010, 05:39 AM
Thanks Spud for misquoting me as an expert in this case, I am not. Nor are you. But if you get a chance to do some reading sometime, do a little bit on Richard Speck. Your theory on Speck makes no sense. First of a few things I'll mention here: 1.) Speck was a loner who didn't have access to money, yet you think as broke as he was he decided, hey, I'll go rent a boat and go all the way to the Dunes and pull this off, then go all the way back to the Chicago area. His past crimes indicate that he wasn't the type to conceal bodies. He really didn't care. 2.) Do you believe Speck with his charming looks and jailhouse talk could convince 3 young women to go out on a boat with him? Really? A blitz-style attack, sure, but then that begs the question again, where are the bodies? One other thing. Speck couldn't keep his mouth shut if his life depended on it, yet he never mentioned a word about this even though he obviously was looked at as a possible suspect. Makes no sense. Again, thank you for taking what I wrote out of context. Keep up the good work.
( 1) You say that Speck could not keep his mouth shut but the fact is that he never confessed to his murders with the exception of that sex and cocaine prison tape that came out after his death where he said "it just wasn`t their night" in reference to the 8 nurses. This was a crime for which he could not be retried or re-sentenced as his death sentence was commuted to life in prison. However, he remained mum on the other known murders that he committed because he surely would have gotten the death penalty.(2)You say he was a loner and i agree that he acted alone. Speck was in fact an ugly bastard but there is strength in numbers and 3 athletic women may well have felt safe in each other`s company and decide to give a thin homely country boy a thrill by going for a boat ride and maybe share a beer or a joint. I have seen it before. (3) This connection to organized crime is a stretch. The Jayne brothers owned stables and these girls rode horses. WOW... In 1966 Chicago , everybody had ties to organized crime. If you were in a union, if you bet the horses, if you had a tavern or restaurant, if you had vending machines , if you were an entertainer and if you were a policeman, you were associated with organized crime.It is almost inconceivable that a 19 year old girl could learn so much about organized crime that it would result in a triple homicide and that that abduction would take place in front of 9000 potential witnesses. (4) Name the crimes in the greater Chicago area over the last 55 years in which there was a multiple female abduction/murder scenario that was not street gang related. I come up with the 2 Grimes sisters, the 3 victims of the Starved Rock murders, Our 3 missing girls,Speck`s nurses and the Lane Bryant murders.I am sure there are more but that is what comes to mind. The fact that these cases are so rare and the timing is such that these girls vanished only 11 days before Speck capped off his self destructive journey with a mass murder and later a failed suicide attempt makes him the most likely suspect in my eyes. Where did he get the boat? He probably stole it.Do you think that he would be too scared to steal a boat? What did he do with the bodies? what did anybody do with the bodies? bury them or chop them up so they wont float up. I think that it was a random crime and whoever did it was lucky to get away with it..... As i said, this case was a mess to begin with, A late start of the investigation with multiple jurisdictions involved and the suspicion that the girls ran away was a perfect storm for an unsolved case. I also realize that you can connect a crooked line between the Schuessler-Peterson murders , the Grimes sisters and the missing Indiana Dunes girls to Silas Jayne but that line is easily erasable. I just cannot buy into this case as being a premeditated hit. These girls were innocent ....... Once more i will remind you that my suspicions were inspired by a seasoned C.P.D. Detective who I saw in a television interview about this case many years ago . Obviously Speck had no solid alibi that could eliminate him or this detective would not have been so adamant in his belief in Speck was guilty. This is a fascinating case and like the J.F.K. murder, there are many theories. I would really love to see this mystery solved .

georgiagirl
01-17-2010, 07:52 PM
When I read about this I immediately thought of Oba Chandler. Not sure if he has been executed yet but he murdered a mother and her two teenage daughters by throwing them off his boat. He is pure evil and I have a hard time believing that was his first time killing someone.

http://www.andelman.com/ARTICLES/obachandler.html

kevmob77
01-17-2010, 09:25 PM
When I read about this I immediately thought of Oba Chandler. Not sure if he has been executed yet but he murdered a mother and her two teenage daughters by throwing them off his boat. He is pure evil and I have a hard time believing that was his first time killing someone.

http://www.andelman.com/ARTICLES/obachandler.html

Never really thought of Oba Chandler, but he was in Ohio at the time. That dirtbag easily could have pulled something like this off. I agree, that was not the first time he committed a crime like that. The case you mentioned was on TruTv's "The Investigators" last week, in fact. Another person, although known to reside in Florida at the time who I feel could have been a suspect but is now deceased is Gerard Schaefer Jr. See http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/n/nater_pamela.html and http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/l/leichner_nancy.html along with many other cases he confessed to or is tied to. The MO certainly fits.

Richard
01-17-2010, 10:34 PM
I do not know if there is a connection between Richard Speck and the disappearance of these three women, but I recall that he was in the Merchant Marine. Which means that he was familiar with the operation of cargo ships. It would be interesting to know exactly what his job specialty was and also where he had been in his travels. Perhaps connections could be made to other murders or disappearances.

If he was experienced in small boat handling, that would be a skill noted in his Merchant Marine records.

Spud
01-18-2010, 12:19 AM
The article at this address says that Speck was released from his ship on July 2 at Indiana Harbor. This puts him 20 miles away on the very day the girls disappeared.http://www.carpenoctem.tv/killers/speck.html

Spud
01-18-2010, 01:25 PM
http://www.carpenoctem.tv/killers/speck.html This article , if accurate puts Speck a scant 20 miles away on the same body of water rand on the same day as the 3 girls.He had a week of work behind him and maybe a paycheck in his pocket . If he wanted to rent or steal a boat, he was in the right place. I think that every crew mate on this ship and former crew mates should be questioned to see if they had a nearby home or a boat that Speck may have borrowed......... In light of this article , which states the fact that that he was already the prime suspect in an April murder and rape, and that 11 days later he would murder 8 women about 20 miles away in the other direction, perhaps Speck should be considered ahead of imported maniacs from Florida and Ohio and be considered as seriously as the horse people theory who hire contract killers to murder innocent girls.

kevmob77
01-18-2010, 03:11 PM
http://www.carpenoctem.tv/killers/speck.html This article , if accurate puts Speck a scant 20 miles away on the same body of water rand on the same day as the 3 girls.He had a week of work behind him and maybe a paycheck in his pocket . If he wanted to rent or steal a boat, he was in the right place. I think that every crew mate on this ship and former crew mates should be questioned to see if they had a nearby home or a boat that Speck may have borrowed......... In light of this article , which states the fact that that he was already the prime suspect in an April murder and rape, and that 11 days later he would murder 8 women about 20 miles away in the other direction, perhaps Speck should be considered ahead of imported maniacs from Florida and Ohio and be considered as seriously as the horse people theory who hire contract killers to murder innocent girls.

To correct your last sentence, these were not girls. They were all women over 18 years old. While no one is deserving of what probably happened to them, in the eyes of the horsemen there may have been information that any one of them could have known, told, seen- among many other possibilities that made someone feel the need to silence them. I would like to emphasize that while it has constantly been minimized or completely ignored by Spud, the importance of these women working at the horse stables is an extremely important factor in this case. On a previous posts I mentioned that how many of the stable-hands at horse ranches know much more about a horses ability (or lack thereof) and problematic injuries than some owners of the horse's themselves. Who knows what happened, what these women saw, heard, or knew. I find it extremely suspicious, considering the circumstances of who these women were technically working for, that at the one time when they decide to make a trip all together to the Dunes they just happen to all go missing- never to be heard from again. A coincidence? If all three of the women were found murdered I could easily buy the Speck connection. The fact that they haven't leads me to believe that this was a more planned and well-thought out type crime. I do not see anything wrong with some of the other posters mentioning Oba Chandler or other possible suspects (would fit his MO by the way) because it keeps the options of other possible suspects open. Regarding Speck, who may very well have been the most notorious criminal in the U.S. at the time of his arrest for the nurses murdering spree he did, wouldn't you think the police from every jurisdiction would have been all over him in relation to other crimes, especially ones against women? The Indiana Dunes case/Speck link probably went at the top of the list investigators looked at. There must be a reason it has been dismissed.

kevmob77
01-18-2010, 03:20 PM
To add, these women did not work at Sears Roebuck. They worked with horses that the Jayne family, Richard Bailey, and God only knows what other shady characters ran in the Midwest at the time. Th fact that they were women, innocent, had minimal involvement with the horses, or any other factors would hardly matter if one of the above mentioned names felt even the slightest suspicion that maybe one of them knew something they shouldn't.

Spud
01-19-2010, 04:00 AM
As a life long Chicagoan who has spent 20 years in the trucking industry working for real outfit guys, i can tell you that your contract killer sent by Silas Jayne theory is idiotic and laughable. I`m sorry but there is no other word. Our company`s owner was sponsored by Marshall Caifano as a young man and pulled down hijacking scores with Rocco Infelice .He got caught and served his time. We had about 15 ex cons working for us at any given time ranging from "chop shop" owners to a burglar from Frank Cullotta`s crew. .Joe "the clown" Lombardo frequently dropped by to pick up his wife who worked there . Jerry Scalise the "Marlborough Diamond" thief and technical adviser on "Public Enemies" dropped by twice to visit the boss when they were filming near by. These guys are all legit now and when they talk about the old scores it can be quite funny. The thing that they have in common is that they have balls and they are in your face guys. If those girls were in danger they would have known it and would have been bought off or scared off long before it came to this. The Chicago Outfit ran best when it avoided public scrutiny and you do that by not killing civilians. You do not use a sledgehammer to kill a fly. ......... Silas Jayne`s crew seems particularly inept at murder. It took him 9 years and a botched hit to finally find somebody to kill his brother after he had threatened him . Several people passed on the offer, all of whom could have nailed him for conspiracy to murder and yet they were not killed. Aside from breeding and boarding horses, He was in the fleecing wealthy horse owners, arson and scamming insurance company business. He had veterinarians and insurance salesmen in his pocket, all of whom knew more than those girls could have known. Patricia Blough was the only employee as i understand it and a low level employee at that. The other girls just rode like plenty of other wealthy male and female riders out there every day but you make a riding stable sound as slimy as a crack house. I repeat that these women were innocent and only significant to the people who loved them.

Spud
01-19-2010, 05:22 AM
(1)You talked about the coincidence of 3 friends going to the beach together and disappearing. It is no coincidence when friends get together...... but it is a hell of a coincidence that even though in a 55 year period of an area around Chicago, multiple women were abducted and murdered only on 5 occasions by my count and 2 of those occasions happened only 11 days apart from each other and the known perpetrator of one of those crimes was known to have been on the same body of water only 20 miles away on the very same day as when 3 women went missing.... Now that is a F#@*ing coincidence.....(2)You say that there is a reason that Speck was dismissed. He was never dismissed . He just never confessed to the crime and there was no proof to put him on the scene. By the time that police actually thought that there was a crime at the Dunes , Speck was locked away. There is actually still no known proof of a crime. I told you that i saw a news special report in which the lead Chicago Detective always felt sure that it was him but had no proof. (3)Much has been made of Speck being a disorganized killer and i tend to agree. This guy was on an out of control downward spiral of hatred against women and self destruction. The best explanation that i have is that those girls sank to the bottom of the lake and they did not come up. In deeper water the bodies will stay down because of the pressure , stab wounds would help make the bodies less buoyant as it would let gasses escape.In deeper water in Lake Superior the entire 29 man crew of the Edmond Fitzgerald were never found. I have seen where 4 drowned and 2 came up and 2 did not. I contend that he got lucky that the bodies stayed down or they were weighted down .He was lucky again that the boat was never discovered. Sometimes killers get lucky. Remember there was much doubt that a crime was committed at all.

kevmob77
01-19-2010, 08:33 AM
Spud, I'm not going to get into a back and forth with you. You have your theories, I have mine. However, the line where you wrote "stab wounds would help make the bodies less buoyant as it would let gasses escape" leading the bodies to sink instead of float is incorrect. Also, NOBODY knows what these women knew. You keep on mentioning that the missing women were too low level and not important enough. That's fine, but is also working on the assumption that something wasn't already said or known. That is not known unfortunately. There are many articles if you do some searching (may have to pay to back date) where people close to the Jayne family and associates are positive they are related to this case.

MaryLiz
01-19-2010, 12:34 PM
I find it intriguing that Richard Speck was in the area at the time, and Lord knows, he was capable of about anything. But I still can't shake my suspicions of Jayne and his goons being involved in this. Below is the link to a new posting about the three women on ForTheMissing that was just added on January 10th of this year. It really doesn't say anything new, but it combines all the articles that were written, and I found a couple statements I had read a while back that make me believe this was somehow related to the horse syndicate.

Patricia Blough suffered a facial injury in March 1966 and attributed it to "syndicate people." That has never been proven, but it was still an odd statement. Blough, Miller and Bruhl frequently rode at Tri Color Stables in Palatine. It was there, in June 1965, that Cheryl Rude was killed by a car bomb meant for George Jayne. I always thought that maybe one or more of the girls witnessed the explosion and may have been killed for that. Some people wonder why Silas Jayne would wait a full year after Rude's death to get retribution. But from what I've read about Silas Jayne, it sounds exactly like something he would do...to get them when they least expected it.

The other thing is, Speck doesn't match the description of the man on the boat. It said that the man the women were talking too had a tanned complexion with dark, wavy hair. I guess that doesn't mean he wasn't elsewhere on the boat. And there were two boats seen, both with three women on them. One had the dark, wavy haired man with three women but the other, larger boat had three men and three women.

http://forthemissing.blogspot.com/2010/01/renee-bruhl-maiden-name-slunecko.html

Stella
01-19-2010, 03:22 PM
Does it sound reasonable to anyone that 3 attractive girls would get on a boat with Richard Speck, who fell out of an ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down? Speck was creepy looking at best and if he had approached me, I would've been too scared to even talk to him, much less go on a boat with him. These girls were not "hard up" for guys and would not have given him the time of day. One girl was married. Saying Speck was responsible for the disapperance of these girls is stretching it. IMHO.

Spud
01-19-2010, 06:38 PM
Richard Speck is the ugliest man that i have ever seen. His face was the face of the "Boogeyman".As a 10 year old child in Chicago in 1966 the face of Richard Speck was burnished into my mind as the face of evil and the few days that he was on the loose were the most terrifying days of my life ....... Maturity has helped me to understand that while Speck was indeed an unfortunate looking man ,that i have seen hundreds of equally unfortunate looking men who did not murder 8 young women in cold blood. The ugly bastards that i know were on my baseball team or fixed my car or delivered my mail and once i got to know them they were not ugly at all.My point is that Richard Speck was not nearly as ugly on July 2 as he was on july 14. As i mentioned in an earlier post i don`t think that it would be unusual for 3 healthy women to be confident in their strength in numbers or to give a country boy the thrill of their company in exchange for a boat ride , a cigarette or a cold drink......... Speck was able to attract a wife after all and he dated a nice nurse in Michigan who treated him after surgery, so the man was not without his charms altogether........ Despite the fact that he was the ultimate evil.

georgiagirl
01-19-2010, 09:27 PM
Richard Speck is the ugliest man that i have ever seen. His face was the face of the "Boogeyman".As a 10 year old child in Chicago in 1966 the face of Richard Speck was burnished into my mind as the face of evil and the few days that he was on the loose were the most terrifying days of my life ....... Maturity has helped me to understand that while Speck was indeed an unfortunate looking man ,that i have seen hundreds of equally unfortunate looking men who did not murder 8 young women in cold blood. The ugly bastards that i know were on my baseball team or fixed my car or delivered my mail and once i got to know them they were not ugly at all.My point is that Richard Speck was not nearly as ugly on July 2 as he was on july 14. As i mentioned in an earlier post i don`t think that it would be unusual for 3 healthy women to be confident in their strength in numbers or to give a country boy the thrill of their company in exchange for a boat ride , a cigarette or a cold drink......... Speck was able to attract a wife after all and he dated a nice nurse in Michigan who treated him after surgery, so the man was not without his charms altogether........ Despite the fact that he was the ultimate evil.


I agree and the same thing can be said about the three women who took a boat ride with Oba Chandler......has anyone taken a gander at his ugly face??? :sick:

Supposedly, he was really "charming" but I would not wanna be alone with him.

Stella
01-19-2010, 09:39 PM
I agree and the same thing can be said about the three women who took a boat ride with Oba Chandler......has anyone taken a gander at his ugly face??? :sick:

Supposedly, he was really "charming" but I would not wanna be alone with him.
Well I guess that explains Charles Manson. 'Nuff said.

joellegirl
01-20-2010, 07:57 PM
Just want to say these posts have been interesting. This is one of my "haunting" cases, and I agree it is hard to find much on it and people who remember it.

I sometimes drive by where I think Tri_Color Stables was (Now Harper College?) in Palatine, IL and think of this case. I can kind of see both sides, the Jayne side and the Speck side, and of course it could have been a totally random guy(s) who are unknown and may be forever unknown. Very frustrating.

Spud
01-21-2010, 02:31 AM
You are right Joellegirl, this is a very frustrating case and as an earlier poster said , it makes you wish that you could have been there to warn them not to get into that boat. I mentioned this case to 3 seniors this week and none remembered the case . i believe that it is all because of that stupid letter that Renee Bruhl had written but never mailed to her husband when she was mad. She talked of leaving him because he was spending too much time working on cars with his pals. Any talk of divorce in the heavily catholic Chicago would paint you as a shady lady in those socially repressive days. Further rumors of Ann Miller may be being pregnant was enough to convince the authorities and much of the general public that this was a runaway case . Again, these were the days when pregnant women often left the state to visit an aunt and put their baby up for adoption. Consequently this case did not get all the attention that it deserved. God knows that in today`s world, the vanishing of 3 attractive white women from good homes would draw international attention. Nancy Grace would be camped out on the beach all summer and fall and the investigation would require that every boat be searched thoroughly and that the Navy and Bob Ballard and his submersibles scour the floor of Lake Michigan.

shadowangel
01-21-2010, 11:36 AM
There are other articles out there which mention a possible Richard Speck connection. The Biography Channel mentions that Indiana authorities were seeking to speak with Speck about this disappearance; Michigan authorities had questions about four others that occured, but before they could Speck committed the murders for which he is infamous. I suppose its possible that the magnitude of the murder of eight women overshadowed the disappearance of three and authorities never followed up.
http://www.biography.com/notorious/crimefiles.do?catId=259456&action=view&profileId=262943&selectedIndex=1&sectionName=Crimes

Richard
01-27-2010, 09:06 AM
Here is a link to another unsolved case on Websleuths which has an article discussing the Helen Brach disappearance and the murder of a Cook County Sheriff Deputy, as well as some other unsolved murders:

Ralph Probst - Cook County Sherriff officer shot in home, 4/10/1967 (Illinois) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

MaryLiz
01-27-2010, 11:45 AM
Here is a link to another unsolved case on Websleuths which has an article discussing the Helen Brach disappearance and the murder of a Cook County Sheriff Deputy, as well as some other unsolved murders:

Ralph Probst - Cook County Sherriff officer shot in home, 4/10/1967 (Illinois) - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94399)


Richard, I read the Ralph Probst thread with great interest. Thanks for linking it to this thread and the Helen Brach thread. It certainly fits into the time frame of Silas Jayne's reign and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was connected to the Ralph Probst slaying.

KarlK
01-30-2010, 12:21 AM
This one really gets me, too. Another disappearance of THREE women! Thanks also for posting the link to that article again. I've read it before but other people should read it too. I just really believe Silas Jayne was in some way responsible for their disappearance. One of the business cards for his stables was found in one of the girl's billfold. It may be coincidence, but with all 3 girls being horse enthusiasts, the connection to Silas Jayne must strongly be considered. The number of cases involving murder and disappearances linked to him is astounding. I really believe he had something to do with this.

Well there is indeed a strong chance that those murders are related to people involved in horse shows although it may not necessarily be linked to Silas Jayne, considering that Jayne appeared to have been unable -or unwilling- to hire professional hitmen, perhaps because he didn't want to deal with the Chicago mob, appearing to have believed that his connections with corrupt LE elements would protect him from the consequences of botched murders committed by some of his associates.

The "job" with the girls on the beach has a pro feel to it that is different from the amateurish MO's of the men he (Si Jayne) was in the habit of hiring. I imagine it wouldn't be that easy for amateurs to dispose of three bodies in such a way that no trace of them has ever been found, and no one ever came forward with any info pertaining to the crime.

Like the articles mention, horse shows are highly competitive events involving wealthy, socially ambitious parents showing off their daughters. One can conceive that it wouldn't necessarily be above a small number of such individuals to resort to extreme methods in order to eliminate the competition if they could afford it, and some certainly could.

MaryLiz
01-30-2010, 05:46 PM
Well there is indeed a strong chance that those murders are related to people involved in horse shows although it may not necessarily be linked to Silas Jayne, considering that Jayne appeared to have been unable -or unwilling- to hire professional hitmen, perhaps because he didn't want to deal with the Chicago mob, appearing to have believed that his connections with corrupt LE elements would protect him from the consequences of botched murders committed by some of his associates.

The "job" with the girls on the beach has a pro feel to it that is different from the amateurish MO's of the men he (Si Jayne) was in the habit of hiring. I imagine it wouldn't be that easy for amateurs to dispose of three bodies in such a way that no trace of them has ever been found, and no one ever came forward with any info pertaining to the crime.

Like the articles mention, horse shows are highly competitive events involving wealthy, socially ambitious parents showing off their daughters. One can conceive that it wouldn't necessarily be above a small number of such individuals to resort to extreme methods in order to eliminate the competition if they could afford it, and some certainly could.

Karl, I agree it may have been someone else responsible for the girls' disappearance. I feel about 90% it was Jayne...but I could be wrong. I think the thing that clicked in my mind and sort of convinced me that he was involved was when I read that the girls rode at George Jayne's Tri Color Stables and Cheryl Rude was killed there by a car bomb meant for George. I mentioned it in post #58 above. It was suggested that maybe one or more of the girls saw that happen. I just think it was more than coincidence that the girls were connected with the Jayne stables. But you're right, those involved in the horse world are highly competetive and it may have been completely unrelated to Jayne.

And of course, it could have been totally unrelated to horse business altogether. Unfortunately, it's looking more and more like we will never know...:(

KarlK
01-30-2010, 10:35 PM
Indeed I doubt the case will ever be solved.

Of course I'm not 100% sure that Si Jayne was not involved, he may very well have been behind the deed and I agree he's the most likely suspect. But I think it's a possibility that someone not linked to him may have been involved be it just because Jayne wasn't the only prominent shadowy figure involved in the business.

okeefe58
01-31-2010, 05:59 PM
I had a life changing incident happen at the Indiana state dunes when I was young –I was born in 58
And when I was 8 years old around July 4, my mother took me and my sister/brother there, and since that day, I always felt I was lucky to escape with my life -I have to check with my mother and brothers and sisters on the timeframe, but I doubt they will remember as well as I do -I am reasonably sure these are the correct times, as the incident is burned in my mind forever –living in calumet city, my mother took us to the dunes, where the sand butted up to some woods –I had lost track of my brother, and went into the woods looking for him –a ways up, I saw a flash of someone running, and called for my brother and kept walking till I came upon a naked man (excited, if you know what I mean), but at the same time, looked mad, and was pursing his lips and spitting, and I got the feeling he had been watching us all along (some things had been stolen from our car, which wasn’t far from where we were playing) -I’m not going to go into anymore detail than this for now, but suffice it to say, I always felt that I easily could have been killed that day –I think my keeping calm and what I said, helped me to get away –even at 8, I had a good sense of the world –for my whole life, I’ve always thought that whoever that guy was, he didn’t stop with me, and had most likely killed one or more people after this (maybe before? Maybe that weekend?) -when I got older and with the advent of the pc, I’ve always meant to look on a computer and put in the search words “Indiana state dunes murder” –so today, after 40 some years, I do just that, and to my shock what comes up on the very first page? This- as I said earlier, I am reasonably sure this is the very weekend that this happened to me –it for sure was the summer of that year –I’m going to agree with another poster about the 3 missing girls being a sexual predator –more often than not, that’s just what it is, rather than some sensational story as the above, and I can tell you from my own experience, there was a sexual predator there at that park during that time –I’m still shaking to find this information, and have to wonder if instead of my mother getting us out of there and never talking about it again (remember, it was 1966), if she would have gone to police, if it would have helped in some way, though at 8 years old, I had no control over this –believe me when I tell you this is no made-up story, as it changed my life forever and my heart still beats fast everytime I think of it 40+ years later

MaryLiz
02-01-2010, 07:29 AM
I had a life changing incident happen at the Indiana state dunes when I was young –I was born in 58
And when I was 8 years old around July 4, my mother took me and my sister/brother there, and since that day, I always felt I was lucky to escape with my life -I have to check with my mother and brothers and sisters on the timeframe, but I doubt they will remember as well as I do -I am reasonably sure these are the correct times, as the incident is burned in my mind forever –living in calumet city, my mother took us to the dunes, where the sand butted up to some woods –I had lost track of my brother, and went into the woods looking for him –a ways up, I saw a flash of someone running, and called for my brother and kept walking till I came upon a naked man (excited, if you know what I mean), but at the same time, looked mad, and was pursing his lips and spitting, and I got the feeling he had been watching us all along (some things had been stolen from our car, which wasn’t far from where we were playing) -I’m not going to go into anymore detail than this for now, but suffice it to say, I always felt that I easily could have been killed that day –I think my keeping calm and what I said, helped me to get away –even at 8, I had a good sense of the world –for my whole life, I’ve always thought that whoever that guy was, he didn’t stop with me, and had most likely killed one or more people after this (maybe before? Maybe that weekend?) -when I got older and with the advent of the pc, I’ve always meant to look on a computer and put in the search words “Indiana state dunes murder” –so today, after 40 some years, I do just that, and to my shock what comes up on the very first page? This- as I said earlier, I am reasonably sure this is the very weekend that this happened to me –it for sure was the summer of that year –I’m going to agree with another poster about the 3 missing girls being a sexual predator –more often than not, that’s just what it is, rather than some sensational story as the above, and I can tell you from my own experience, there was a sexual predator there at that park during that time –I’m still shaking to find this information, and have to wonder if instead of my mother getting us out of there and never talking about it again (remember, it was 1966), if she would have gone to police, if it would have helped in some way, though at 8 years old, I had no control over this –believe me when I tell you this is no made-up story, as it changed my life forever and my heart still beats fast everytime I think of it 40+ years later

What a horrible experience. If it was the July 4th weekend of 1966 that you were there, it very well could have been on July 2nd when that happened. It's entirely possible the girls could have met up with a sexual predator. Do you still remember what he looked like after all this time? I imagine you would never forget his face! Thanks for sharing your experience.

okeefe58
02-01-2010, 02:46 PM
yes, I remember it like it was yesterday (every bit of it) problem is I have astigmatism to the point of being legally blind in my left eye, not much better in my right, and wasn't wearing my glasses (playing) -also tried not to look at him -but when I first saw american psycho, the way christian bale looked in that movie reminded me of him, but in-between 21-27 years old -same thin, but muscular body type -I can't imagine being able to do a police sketch, though, and feeling it would be accurate to the real guy -in other words, if he was standing in front of me, I don't think I could say without reasonable doubt, after all these years -thanks for the replies

Spud
02-04-2010, 02:07 PM
Thanks to Okeefe58 for reliving and relating this horrendous event so as to shed a different light on the loss of the three women from Illinois. It opens the mostly unexplored possibility that the women were not taken by boat but that they may have been lured "Bundy style" to a remote spot.It would be helpful to know if the attack took place in the woods, or in a car or in a tent. A tent would indicate that the assailant may have been registered as a camper...... You must have been shaken up when you realized that lives were taken that weekend . You can be especially thankful that you were not. Good luck.

okeefe58
02-04-2010, 04:01 PM
thanks spud for knowing its not an easy thing to relate, but felt I had to -wish I could have sooner -I always knew I was lucky to get away with my life, but yes, reading it actually happened to three others sent adrenalin thru me like you wouldn't believe -if you look at what happened to me, you can see a person doesn't necessarily even have to be lured for it to happen -can be a scary world out there and sad to say there are those few looking to prey on the young, weak, etc -I only wish I could have had some time with this guy when I wasn't a vulnerable eight year old

Justice for Joanie
04-15-2010, 01:06 AM
I found an old article dated from Nov of 1966 in which a young womans badly decomposed remains were found in the Gary, Indiana area. Gary is less than 20 miles from the park where the 3 girls disappeared according to Google maps. Im trying to find out if this victim was ever identified but knowing how things were back in those days I doubt she ever was. The body was more specifically found in the rural area North of US 20 & along County Line Road that separates Lake & Porter Counties. A knife was found a short distance away.

Cincinnati Kid
04-16-2010, 12:47 PM
It still should be remembered that the three women were seen - and filmed - getting onto a boat. I think that is the biggest clue of all. It would probably have taken more than one individual to subdue all three women and such an act might have been better accomplished out on the water. There would have been less chance of escape there as well as a minimal chance of someone witnessing what took place. Just a few thoughts while not trying to minimize other theories.

Justice for Joanie
04-16-2010, 01:43 PM
I appreciate what you are saying. That makes sense to me too. But on the other hand it also seems that if they had been killed on the boat & their bodies disposed of in the water, one of the bodies eventually would have rose to the surface. Of course they may have weighted them down too. But because of the time frame & geographic proximity to the area of abduction I still think this warrants a closer look. I also found another article about this victim & the coroner made one of the oddest statements I have ever read come out of the mouth of a coroner. I cant post attachments yet but I will try to find the time to transcribe it later. Dena

Cincinnati Kid
04-16-2010, 04:47 PM
Any information is always welcomed. It's good to see that this topic is receiving the interest that it is since it happened so many years ago. With regard to what may have happened to any bodies, Lake Michigan probably has many deep places. Also, whose to say that the boat could not have pulled close to shore at a location away from where people were and any bodies could have been transferred to a truck or other form of transportation and taken elsewhere? Regardless, I feel there had to have been at least two or more individuals behind what took place.

Justice for Joanie
04-16-2010, 05:13 PM
I think there absolutely had to be more than one person behind this too.

MaryLiz
04-26-2010, 09:56 PM
Glad to see some discussion about this again. In a little over 2 months it will be 44 years since they disappeared from the face of the earth. I just don't understand how 3 women can vanish from a big crowd like that and NO ONE sees anything of importance.

Justice for Joanie
04-26-2010, 10:00 PM
Glad to see some discussion about this again. In a little over 2 months it will be 44 years since they disappeared from the face of the earth. I just don't understand how 3 women can vanish from a big crowd like that and NO ONE sees anything of importance.

I agree, Cambria. Too bad someone doesn't know the names of the original witnesses at the lake that day. Time has a way of soothing peoples fears as well as loosening their tongues. They might tell a different story of what they saw that day. Dena

Spyglass
04-26-2010, 10:27 PM
It still should be remembered that the three women were seen - and filmed - getting onto a boat. I think that is the biggest clue of all. It would probably have taken more than one individual to subdue all three women and such an act might have been better accomplished out on the water. There would have been less chance of escape there as well as a minimal chance of someone witnessing what took place. Just a few thoughts while not trying to minimize other theories.

It does seem it would require more than one subduer; however, I'm thinking of the Tampa area case a couple of years ago where a mother and her two teenage daughters went out in a boat and evidently were murdered and thrown overboard by one man. Sorry I can't think of the victims' names or where they were vacationing from (Arkansas?).

Justice for Joanie
04-26-2010, 11:04 PM
It does seem it would require more than one subduer; however, I'm thinking of the Tampa area case a couple of years ago where a mother and her two teenage daughters went out in a boat and evidently were murdered and thrown overboard by one man. Sorry I can't think of the victims' names or where they were vacationing from (Arkansas?).

Yes I cannot remember where the 3 females were from but I remember the case. By the time they realized they were at the mercy of a sweet talking sociopath it was too late.

The 3 girls in Indiana could have been sweet talked aboard the boat. People still fall for a good story today. So I can only imagine how easily people fell for things over 40 years ago.

MaryLiz
04-26-2010, 11:25 PM
That was Joan Rogers and her daughters Christie and Michelle. They were from a small town called Willshire, Ohio about 15 miles west of where I live. That was a horrible case, all over the news here as well as across the country, but since it was local they had it on the news constantly. They were murdered by Oba Chandler on his boat in Tampa. It happened back in 1989, nearly 21 years ago now.

Justice for Joanie
04-27-2010, 12:17 AM
Jeez that was a horrifying case. Just horrific. Thats right-I remember now-Oba Chandler.

Cincinnati Kid
05-04-2010, 01:01 PM
Ironically, Oba Chandler is from Cincinnati.

With regards to the Indiana Dunes case; as we know, no bodies have ever been found. In the Florida case, despite attempts by Chandler (such as weighing down the bodies, etc.), the bodies of Joan Rogers and her two daughters were found and recovered. That's why I feel at least two, and very possibly more, individuals were involved in the disappearance of the three women. I think it is highly likely that their bodies could have been removed from the boat at some distant location, placed in a car or similar vehicle and taken elsewhere for burial or some form of disposal. Such actions were probably made easier with multiple individuals involved.

okeefe58
05-11-2010, 03:29 PM
I tend to think it was one person. there are many, many cases of one man subduing more than one female. it's one of those situations where most people are just to stunned and shocked to know whats hitting them. also, it's the one person cases, that keep it to themselves, and never tell anyone, that usually don't get solved. the more people involved, the more chance one of them talks. or one of the others lose there nerve, or get afraid of one of the other guys, etc. that gets them caught. plus, I tend to think these loner stalkers go over these abductions in there head and paper over and over, so as to cover every angle they can think of not to get caught. not trying to disagree with anyone. these are all just theories anyway. just my opinion. I also have some experience with these lone sickos, as you guys know. might possibly be jading my opinions also

Cincinnati Kid
05-16-2010, 09:56 AM
I looked back and information provided at the start of this topic indicates that the three women left their "belongings" behind including the keys to the vehicle they arrived in. Did that include their purses? I find it interesting that they would board a boat (with the obvious idea they would be away for at least a portion of time) without taking those along with them. What woman would in 1966 or now?

Stella
05-16-2010, 07:08 PM
That only goes to prove how naive and trusting these young women were. If they would leave out their belongings for anyone to steal, they probably would have gotten on a boat with strangers.

reportertype
05-19-2010, 09:23 PM
I see someone beat me to Oba Chandler. I was going to bring him up. In his case, I have a feeling he used the daughters to keep the mother doing whatever he said. Anyway, another odd fact - Oba Chandler's boat was blue and white.

I leave my stuff unattended on the beach when I go, although I never go too far away from it. But everyone tends to do that. Stella is probably right; they were naive and I'm sure there wasn't the proliferation of information about psychopaths back then.

Also, even today we keep hearing "safety in numbers." If there was just one other person aboard, the three girls may have felt perfectly safe.

Cincinnati Kid
05-25-2010, 10:42 PM
Long ago, I saw a reference in a newspaper detective strip warning it's more dangerous to accept a ride in a boat than in an automobile. Without looking it up to be certain, I'm pretty sure that appeared long before this incident at the Indiana Dunes State Park.

MaryLiz
07-01-2010, 02:18 PM
Bumping for 44th anniversary of the girls' disappearance on July 2, 1966.

This article is from last summer. I posted it already on page 2 of this thread, but so far it is still the latest article written and worth re-reading. Maybe there will be a new article tomorrow on the actual anniversary.

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/article_3df371d6-0ba6-5611-bfa6-9af13f00f34c.html

Spud
09-22-2010, 08:15 AM
I Googled for Chicago`s cold case file on this case and found this interesting article that sheds light on Wylie`s theories of foul play. I believe that i know the "8 ball tavern" that is mentioned in the article. It was located in Hodgkins, IL , very near the deep tunnel entrance and just downstream from the Waste Treatment Center in McCook IL. I don`t know if it`s still there or how it fits into Wylie`s theory but i might take a run over there to ask around. ....... The abortion gone wrong theory only works for me if you believe that a girl was getting her abortion on a boat .http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?t=479http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?t=479

MaryLiz
10-17-2010, 01:09 PM
I Googled for Chicago`s cold case file on this case and found this interesting article that sheds light on Wylie`s theories of foul play. I believe that i know the "8 ball tavern" that is mentioned in the article. It was located in Hodgkins, IL , very near the deep tunnel entrance and just downstream from the Waste Treatment Center in McCook IL. I don`t know if it`s still there or how it fits into Wylie`s theory but i might take a run over there to ask around. ....... The abortion gone wrong theory only works for me if you believe that a girl was getting her abortion on a boat .http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?t=479http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showthread.php?t=479

Thanks for posting this Spud..I think I read this before but don't know when. Parts of it sounded very familiar. I never have been too keen on the abortion gone wrong theory. You're right..they probably would have had to perform it right on the boat. Unless they had arranged to meet this guy on the boat and he took them somewhere else to have the abortion performed. But still..I don't think that's the case. I think whoever they met on that boat, they had only met him just that day.

I've been reading for years now about Dick Wylie's book, "Life and Death Through The Lens," that is supposed to be published. He apparently has a large chapter written about the 3MW from the Indiana Dunes in that book. I also read just last year that he has a HUGE file on this case and wants to publish it as well separately. I don't know if he can't find a publisher or what, but I would sure love to read all the info he has about this case.

lieber32
10-18-2010, 08:56 PM
I see someone beat me to Oba Chandler. I was going to bring him up. In his case, I have a feeling he used the daughters to keep the mother doing whatever he said. Anyway, another odd fact - Oba Chandler's boat was blue and white.

I leave my stuff unattended on the beach when I go, although I never go too far away from it. But everyone tends to do that. Stella is probably right; they were naive and I'm sure there wasn't the proliferation of information about psychopaths back then.

Also, even today we keep hearing "safety in numbers." If there was just one other person aboard, the three girls may have felt perfectly safe.

I live in a city that a few years ago had the highest crime rate in the country and on a daily basis see people leave their belongings unattended. One of the most memorable was a three hundred dollar coach purse with wallet inside. I remember turning it in once I saw it unattended. Instead of being thankful that her purse was not stolen or here identity stolen (her drivers licese number was her ss) I was treated to a mouthful of foul language. People do not leave valuables in plain sight or unattended. I work for a police department, trust me it doesn't take long to have your belongings stolen or for you to be kidnapped. I've meet good looking white Bundy types that have committed heinous crimes.

tatertot
11-06-2010, 11:00 AM
News article about Wylie and his abortionist theory:

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-new-theories-surface-on-decade-110510,0,2189234.story

marycarney
11-07-2010, 07:18 PM
Glad to see some discussion about this again. In a little over 2 months it will be 44 years since they disappeared from the face of the earth. I just don't understand how 3 women can vanish from a big crowd like that and NO ONE sees anything of importance.

Most likely, because they didn't know they WERE seeing anything of importance. It was literally 'just a day at the beach'.

And as for the poster who remarked about them leaving their keys, etc on the beach, I grew up going to this very beach as a kid (including in 1966) and it was COMMON to just put your stuff under your blanket and leave it. Or ask a nearby family to 'keep an eye on it'.

MaryLiz
11-07-2010, 07:32 PM
Most likely, because they didn't know they WERE seeing anything of importance. It was literally 'just a day at the beach'.

And as for the poster who remarked about them leaving their keys, etc on the beach, I grew up going to this very beach as a kid (including in 1966) and it was COMMON to just put your stuff under your blanket and leave it. Or ask a nearby family to 'keep an eye on it'.

That's true...no one was "looking" for anything out of the ordinary, I suppose.

You're absolutely right about leaving belongings on the beach. Those days are long gone, but I remember doing that exact same thing, and especially asking someone nearby to keep an eye out for my things. I had forgotten about stuff like that..it's been so long since we have been able to trust people in that regard. :(

Spud
11-12-2010, 09:58 PM
News article about Wylie and his abortionist theory:

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-new-theories-surface-on-decade-110510,0,2189234.story

Thanks tatertot for finding this story.Reporter Dick Wylie has long suspected a local lothario with ties to abortionists. He has named him as Ralph Largo Jr. who died last year. With the death of Wylie`s suspect in this case, he is now free to lay out his theory without libel lawsuit ramifications. It seems that Wylie believes that 2 of the girls were pregnant and in need of an abortion. I would love to read the transcript of this investigation because it is a fascinating theory. He believes that the girls were shuttled to a floating abortion clinic on a cabin cruiser. I have never heard of that before but i can say that i was on a floating casino on Lake Michigan before legalized gambling came to the region so a floating clinic seems like a pretty good idea if the lake is calm. From a criminal standpoint this idea borders on genius with an easy waste and witness disposal if things went wrong . The pregnant women could have even been blindfolded before getting on the cabin cruiser to prevent them from naming the boat if they had a mind to call the police. Thank God that the seedy underworld of back alley abortions is a thing of the past. I would like to see how Mr. Wylie constructed his theories. Where can i buy your book Mr. Wylie?

Cincinnati Kid
11-18-2010, 08:41 AM
I watched the video and it's an interesting theory. I just don't agree that the three girls would voluntarily leave their belongings behind at the beach particularly if they knew they would be away for a period of time. Say what you will, but whether it was 1966 or 2010, I don't think girls would do that of their own choice.

I would like to hear more information given by the persons from Indianapolis who were at the beach and saw the boat and the person who was operating it.

Spud
11-20-2010, 09:54 AM
If there is one accepted fact in this case it is that all 3 women left their blanket and belongings to escape 95 degree temperatures and got on a boat. There is little question about this fact . This was witnessed by dozens of people. What happened after that is a mystery. ..... An abortion takes 5 and 20 minutes with a recovery time of 1/2 hour to 1 hour for first trimester abortions so the girls could have expected to be back on their blankets by 2 or 3p.m. ....... I would like to know :What if any research did Wylie do to dismiss Silas Jayne and / or Richard Speck ?...... Are there any police reports or witness testimony available to substantiate the existence of offshore abortion clinics? ....... Who were the pregnant girls? Rumors have previously named Ann Miller. Who was the other pregnant woman and how does Wylie know ? Is his book a journal of an intensive investigation or an interesting work of fiction based on real events?

kline
11-21-2010, 12:49 PM
Very interesting case.....ive never bought the theory that this was some kind of 'hit' to silence one of the girls involving the shady character with the horse stables.
I mean surely there was a less unwieldy way to accomplish that then concoct some kind of amphibias abduction in broad daylight in front of dozens of witneses if that were the case.
I would say it was more likely they got into a boat with some drunk bad apples and possibly things got way out of hand past the point of return.

Spud
11-21-2010, 05:02 PM
There are at least 4 different tv programs that deal with vanishings or missing persons and this case never gets the publicity that may clear this thing up . My belief and the belief of a C.P.D. Detective on the Speck case has always been that Speck was somehow responsible . He was in port and this happened only 11 days before he murdered 8 nurses only 40 miles away. However, this scenario leaves very little opportunity for verification as Speck is quite dead. I would like to know if his family and old boyfriends in prison were properly questioned on this case......... Like Kline, i never believed that a premeditated out of state contract killing was really possible by Silas Jayne or that these 3 very young women could know enough to make them such a target but proponents of this theory argued that their theory generated some discussion that might actually lead to a guilty party and conviction if true. ......... Without knowing how Dick Wylie came to form his hypothesis of the abortion gone wrong on a boat, i must say that it is a plausible scenario and at the least a worthy plot for a good mystery writer. More importantly , this theory needs to see the light of day with a book and more tv clips like we saw . Perhaps we should badger these missing persons shows to do a report on this case. It is very possible that there are surviving women who had successful procedures that could shed light on offshore abortion clinics.

MaryLiz
06-27-2011, 10:07 PM
This coming Saturday, July 2nd, will be the 45th anniversary of the disappearance of these ladies from the Indiana Dunes State Park. Sure wish we had some answers by now...:(

MaryLiz
07-02-2011, 08:07 PM
Bumping for the 45th anniversary of the disappearance of Patricia Blough, Ann Miller and Renee Blough. No news articles have been written to mark the anniversary that I could find.

I finally did locate a copy of the book Dick Wylie wrote called Life and Death, Thru the Lens. Apparently he wrote extensively about this case in his book. I had been looking for it and couldn't find it. Apparently it was published in 2004. I found a used copy at amazon.com for $199! Unfortunately, I can't afford that, but I would love to read the book.

Amazon.com: Life And Death, Thru The Lens (9780615126289): Dick Wylie: Books

Bargle
07-02-2011, 09:32 PM
Try your local library. If they don't have it, they may be able to get it for you through an interlibrary loan. My system has gotten me many books this way.

MaryLiz
07-04-2011, 08:54 PM
Try your local library. If they don't have it, they may be able to get it for you through an interlibrary loan. My system has gotten me many books this way.

I did that years ago when I was reading about another case, but it's been so long I had forgotten about interlibrary loan. Thanks for the reminder!

STANDREID
07-04-2011, 09:20 PM
I know they've tried to pin this on Speck or the Horse Mafia but I always wondered where Ted Bundy was on this date.

MaryLiz
07-06-2011, 09:13 PM
I know they've tried to pin this on Speck or the Horse Mafia but I always wondered where Ted Bundy was on this date.

According to the website at the link below, he registered at the University of Puget Sound in the fall of 1965, and remained there until the spring of 1966. In the fall of 1966, he registered at the University of Washington. I can't find any info on where he was between May and September of 1966. Somehow I can't imagine him turning up in Indiana that July, but with predators like him, you never know!

http://tedbundy.150m.com/timeline.html

STANDREID
07-07-2011, 09:11 AM
Thanks Mary. I know it's a long shot but this is a Bundy type murder or at least could have been and some think that he had already killed by this time. The description of the man last seen talking to the women also sounded quite like Bundy. Just thought I'd throw this into the mix.

MaryLiz
07-07-2011, 08:28 PM
Thanks Mary. I know it's a long shot but this is a Bundy type murder or at least could have been and some think that he had already killed by this time. The description of the man last seen talking to the women also sounded quite like Bundy. Just thought I'd throw this into the mix.

I thought the same thing when you brought up Bundy's name...that he matched the description of the guy they were seen talking to on the boat; in his early 20s, tanned complexion with dark, wavy hair! It's not really so far-fetched when you consider that Bundy didn't care who he killed and he could have turned up anywhere.

Cincinnati Kid
08-18-2011, 05:08 PM
Ted Bundy was 19 years old in the summer of 1966. You wonder about someone that age driving the far distance from the norhwest although we all know now that when he was older, Bundy drove many miles to commit his murders. The other doubt I have is would he have taken on three women at once? Depending on the layout of the boat, a lone assailant might deal with them in various locations one-on-one, but even for someone like Bundy that seems like a difficult task in such a small area given that his usual method of killing was the use of a blunt instrument. Some might point out his rampage at the Florida State sorority house came against multiple women, but it might be remembered that he carried out that mayhem while those women were asleep. You never know, though, given the murderous mind of Bundy. Even now, there is re-newed talk of him being responsible for the killing of eight-year old Ann Marie Burr when he was just 14 years old.

dashamarie
11-11-2011, 10:40 AM
Accordng to what I can find, Speck was not in port in Indiana that weekend. He was staying with his sister's family in Chicago and didn't go to board a ship in East Chicago, Indiana until July 12th. He had no transportation and relied on friends, family, and the union to drive him around.

websurfer
04-17-2012, 03:31 PM
Two other women went missing from Florida the same year.
But a killer supposedly confessed to their murder.
I was thinking maybe he killed the 3 women from Indiana as well?
He could have rented a boat ?

marie-chantal
05-14-2012, 02:55 PM
Two other women went missing from Florida the same year.
But a killer supposedly confessed to their murder.
I was thinking maybe he killed the 3 women from Indiana as well?
He could have rented a boat ?

Or maybe he was someone who worked on marinas? Could he have been an employee? Where was the nearest marina/boat launch/boat fueling dock?

Cincinnati Kid
05-14-2012, 03:41 PM
I still feel this was the work of more than one individual especially since there were three women. I'm still intrigued by the report that someone using a movie camera appeas to have filmed the boat in question along with the girls and others on board. Is that film still being held by authorities and with all of the modern computerized methods that can be done, could it provide more clues now?

Richard
05-15-2012, 09:41 AM
Just a thought for consideration. John Norman Collins was a college student in Michigan at the time that this disappearance occurred. He and his roomate/partner in crime, Andrew J. Manuel (a man of numerous aliases) might have been involved in it - when you consider their subsequent crimes and behavior.

Collins is believed to be a serial killer who murdered several women in Michigan, as well as some in California and Canada between 1967 and 1969, when he was arrested and charged with the abduction/murder of Karen Sue Beineman from Ypsilanti, MI in July 1969.

Although he was only convicted of Karen's murder, he is believed to have killed many others. He is now in his 43rd year of a life sentence in Michigan's Marquette Prison.

I do not know if Collins or Manuel knew how to operate a boat, but it would certainly not be out of character for them to have stolen one.

Cincinnati Kid
05-16-2012, 09:56 AM
I may have read about John Norman Collins if he was the person written about in the book, "Michigan Murders". I bought that in paperback and, as I recall, it had no photographs. Collins and Manuel seem to be possibilities even at those young ages. You tend to think that a person or persons who would have killed the three women at Indiana Dunes State Park could have killed again.

marie-chantal
05-16-2012, 02:36 PM
I know that the type of boat was mentioned earlier in the thread, but I'm not terribly familiar with boats. Does anyone know if there were any marinas in the area where people could rent boats? If there were, then does anyone know if that particular type of boat was the same as the type that could be rented?

Bargle
05-16-2012, 08:32 PM
I may have read about John Norman Collins if he was the person written about in the book, "Michigan Murders". I bought that in paperback and, as I recall, it had no photographs. Collins and Manuel seem to be possibilities even at those young ages.

Yes, "The Michigan Murders" was about Collins.

Richard
05-17-2012, 06:13 PM
Yes, "The Michigan Murders" was about Collins.

The book "The Michigan Murders" was written in 1978, five years after the last of the murders took place.

Although the author tried to remain factual in his writing about the case, he did change all of the names - of everybody in the case. So it takes a bit of work to sort out who is who when you are trying to read the book and do any research.

The Michigan State Police headed a task force which included the Ann Arbor City Police, Ypsilanti City Police, Washtenaw County Sheriff Office, and the Campus police of University of Michigan and Eastern Michigan University. The task force was appointed by the Governor of Michigan to look into what seemed to be a series of murders of young women and girls, many of whom were college students.

Back in 1968 and 1969, it was believed that a single individual or possibly more than one killer were responsible for the murders, although at the time the term "serial killer" was not used. And unlike today, these murders did not get much "press" outside of Southern Michigan. In fact, a book by Time which was a review of the year 1969 in national news does not even mention them.

In Michigan they were referred to as "The Co-ed Murders", and the unknown suspect (later identified as Collins) was usually referred to as "The Co-ed Killer"

The term "Michigan Murders" came about because of the title of the aforementioned book.

It should be mentioned that there were generally believed to be seven murders in the series. There were also several other murders of young women and girls (and one still unsolved disappearance) during that time, but they were not considered to be part of the series.

In 2005, another guy was convicted (based upon DNA evidence) of killing one of the seven victims.

At least three other men were convicted of killing young women at and around the time of the "Co-ed Murders". The most recent one was convicted in October 2011 for the murder of a 13-year-old Toledo, Ohio girl.

Cincinnati Kid
05-31-2012, 08:48 AM
One report that I recently read indicates the three women first went with one man onto a smaller boat. Following that, the three women were seen back in the beach area. Then, all three women were seen aboard a larger boat and there were at least two men with them.

This seemingly indicates the first man contacted a friend or friends and had them bring the larger boat to pick up the women and himself. It makes you wonder, how much of this "meeting" was planned in advance?

Richard
06-01-2012, 12:49 PM
A few thoughts on this case...

July 2, 1966 was a Saturday. The three women were known to have parked their car in a parking lot, left their towells and a few personal items on the beach, and then went into the water to swim. It is said that they were seen getting into a small white motor boat operated by one young man.

Quoting from the origional post/case summary:
--------------
Quote:

A couple reported seeing the women leave their belongings on the beach at approximately 12:00 PM and enter the lake together. The witnesses saw them speaking to an unidentified man operating a 14 - 16 foot-long white boat with a blue interior and and outboard motor sometime afterwards. The couple reported their observations to a park ranger around dusk when they noticed that the women's belongings were still sitting unclaimed on the beach. The witnesses stated that the women went aboard the boat and headed west with the driver.

The park rangers soon learned that missing persons' reports had been filed for Blough, Miller and Bruhl over the weekend in Illinois by their families. The rangers began investigating the park and located Miller's Buick in the parking lot. Her car keys had been located with her belongings and some items of the women's clothing and other personal effects were still inside the vehicle.

The park rangers contacted other law enforcement agencies, including the United States Coast Guard. A search for the missing women was initiated on July 5 (a Tuesday), three days after the women disappeared. Additional witnesses came forward with conflicting stories regarding the women's last known movements, but authorities believe that the first witnesses' reports stating that the women were seen boarding a boat were the most reliable.

More witnesses began substantiating the initial reports that the women entered a white boat operated by an unidentified man. Later accounts described the male as in his early twenties with a tanned complexion and dark, wavy hair. He was wearing a beach jacket at the time.

A visitor was filming home movies at the state park on July 2 and offered his reels to investigators. The search was immediately narrowed to two boats once authorities viewed the footage. One was a fiberglass 16 - 18-foot long trimaran runabout with a three-hulled design, which was operated by a man fitting the description of the unidentified driver. Three females matching the missing women were seen aboard the smaller boat in the footage.

(Note: this description is likely a misstatement. A Trimaran is a sailboat with three separate hulls. It is more likely that this was a Tri-hull Runabout, which has only one hull, shaped a certain way to resemble three hulls in front. This was a popular type of speed boat at the time. A tri-hull runabout would ride high on the water and could get in close to shore.)

The second boat identified was a 26 - 28-foot Trojan cabin cruiser with three men aboard along with three women. The cabin cruiser was seen at approximately 3:00 PM, three hours after the women entered the smaller vessel.

(Note: a 26 or 28 foot cabin cruiser would have had a considerably deeper draft than the other boat, meaning that it would have to remain further from the shoreline to keep from running aground).

Investigators believe that the women may have been dropped off on the beach by the driver of the smaller boat while he drove back to retrieve two male friends and the cabin cruiser. Blough, Miller and Bruhl were reportedly seen eating and walking along the sand dunes after this time. They were approached by another unidentified man, who accompanied them on to the cabin cruiser. Witnesses stated that the cabin cruiser was equipped with a radio / telephone antenna, but apparently did not have a name printed on its stern. This final sighting has never been confirmed, but is considered reliable by authorities.

Unquote.
------------

It is stated in the summary that investigators considered the first scenario/sighting of the girls entering the smaller boat to be the most likely. I concur. Stories about them being dropped off, walking around for a few hours, then somehow boarding the cabin cruiser (no one saw them board) do not make any sense when you consider that they left all of their belongings on the beach.

If they had indeed returned to the beach with the intentions of going on a larger boat later, why didn't they change clothes, retrieve their belongings from the beach, and lock them in their car? Note that the origional witnesses knew that there were three girls, that they placed their belongings on the beach, and that they never returned for them.

Although a large cabin cruiser was indeed seen in the area, it is unlikely (in my opinion) that these three girls were on it. More likely that the three men and three women boarded that cabin cruiser from some dock in a marina, and were in the area of the beach/park coincidentally. They were not seen untill three hours after the girls were seen boarding the smaller motor boat.

While there are are a number of interesting possibilities and intriguing connections, I tend to think that this was a chance meeting of a guy with his speed boat and the three swimming girls. I do not think that he ever returned them to the beach. He may have flipped the boat or run into something at high speed, spilling all into Lake Michigan. As mentioned in the first post, some boat wreackage was found later.

It is also possible that the boat man took the girls to a remote location and killed/buried them. But I doubt - if killing the girls was his plan - that he would have needed a larger boat, or would have included two other men in his little scheme.

If this were a planned "hit" by mobsters or shady characters, there certainly would be a more effective way to do it than to drive a motor boat to a beach and hope that the girls would be swimming by at that exact moment - and all in front of many potential witnesses.

Cincinnati Kid
06-03-2012, 11:15 AM
I think if an accident had taken place involving four individuals (the three women and the boatman) out on the lake, one body or more would have eventually been discovered. Admittedly, I'm not familar with the depths of the lake in that area or the drift of the tide, but out of what could have been four people killed, I think something would have been found especially in that summer season.

As I have previously noted, if the women were killed, it would probably have taken more than one individual to carry that out.

GracieLu
06-03-2012, 11:34 AM
Wow, I live pretty close to where this happened but never heard of it before. Take my little one to the dunes/lake michigan all summer long.... going to do some research about this case. very interesting and very sad!

Cincinnati Kid
06-04-2012, 01:28 PM
I first learned of this incident by reading an article in a detective magazine back in the 1980's. The story was also contained in a book that came out some years ago about unsolved Chicago area murders and disappearances. I can recall that weekend and remember that July 4th came on a Monday.

Had this disappearance taken place in more recent years, there would be intensive coverage by cable news networks and it would have no doubt been reported on newscasts by the major networks and network morning shows would probably have had family members on to talk about it. I do wonder what kind of coverage it received in such newspapers as the Chicago Tribune and for how long?

Although it took place over 45 years ago, I think there are still some who know what happened to these women and who was responsible.

Richard
06-21-2012, 01:53 PM
You are right about news coverage in the 1960's. It did tend to be more locally isolated when it came to crime reporting - even the disappearance of three women from a public beach.

Your best bet for researching this story would be to start with newspapers in the Gary, Indiana area because Gary is the closest big city to the Indiana Dunes Park.

Probably the first newspaper to check for stories would be the Post Tribune. It is a local newspaper from Gary, Indiana covering local, regional and national news and events.

Because this is an older story, you might have to do some microfilm searching.

LINK toa listing of Gary, Indiana area newspapers:

http://www.allyoucanread.com/gary-newspaper-in/

Cincinnati Kid
06-21-2012, 05:34 PM
There are some articles on the disappearance in the Chicago Tribune that begin right after it took place up into the fall and into 1967. However, there is a cost to do view those on-line from that newspaper.

MaryLiz
07-04-2012, 09:35 PM
Bumping for Patricia Blough, Ann Miller and Renee Bruhl, two days after the 46th anniversary of their disappearance.

Cincinnati Kid
07-05-2012, 07:47 AM
Nice of you to do that. This particular case continues to be looked at on this website so the interest is there. Just amazing how three young ladies could have vanished like they did. I feel there is someone still around who knows what happened.

Richard
07-05-2012, 11:04 PM
Does anyone know if any young men went missing or were reported missing around the same time as these girls?

MaryLiz
07-08-2012, 04:25 PM
Nice of you to do that. This particular case continues to be looked at on this website so the interest is there. Just amazing how three young ladies could have vanished like they did. I feel there is someone still around who knows what happened.

Thanks, I do think of them often, especially around July 2nd. I agree with you 100%. I totally believe there is more than one person still alive who knows what happened to them. I just wish they would come forward.

Richard
07-09-2012, 02:25 PM
This is a fascinating case with a lot of information - some pertinent and some probably not.

Of primary interest is the description and motion pictures of the smaller motorboat, its driver, and the three girls in that boat.

Of secondary interest is the information about and photos of the larger cabin cruiser.

While a name on the stern sounds important, the more important information would be the letters and numbers on each side near the bow. These are registration numbers - just like car plates, except that they never change. Retrieving those registration numbers from the film would make boat and owner identification very easy, even today. I was personally able to retrieve historical information relating to the various owners and sales of my own boat dating back to 1971.

The girls were wearing swim suits and probably nothing else, since they swam out to the small boat and since they left their belongings on the beach untouched and in the parked car. This fact, and the fact that they were photographed on board the smaller boat would make it pretty easy to analyze photos of the larger boat to determine whether or not they and the small boat's driver were in fact aboard the larger boat later in the day.

While there is much intrigue and mystery woven into this story, some possibly important (and easy to ascertain) facts are missing. What was the weather like that day? What was the state of the waves? Were there any distress signals copied by the Coast Guard or other ships/boats that day? What specific wreckage was located later during the search? Were any boats reported missing or stolen that day or within a few days of the girls' disappearance. Any other persons reported missing?

Sometimes the most likely solution to the problem is the least interesting. In looking at the available facts (realizing that some important ones are missing) one could conclude that the small boat and its driver and passengers perished during a high speed collision with a wave, or simply flipped in a quick manuever.

A Tri-Hull runabout was a boat built primarily for speed and they sported rather high power outboards for the size of the boat. An 85 Horsepower engine could generate a lot of power and speed, and they require a lot of gasoline on board.

The driver may well have been showing off for his guests after they departed the beach area. A top skimming boat like a tri-hull is not very stable in high winds or heavy seas and a collision with a wave, or buoy, or floating piece of debris would be disastrous. One cannot assume that a body would ever reach the shore if they were a long way out on Lake Michigan.

Cincinnati Kid
07-09-2012, 06:04 PM
Richard -

Your post offers quite a bit to consider and you are to be thanked for all that you provided. May I just ask a couple of questions?

In the reports on this story, two boats have been mentioned in connection with the three women. One has been described as a 16-18 foot fiberglass trimaran runabout. The other was a 26-28 foot Trojan cabin cruiser. Some say the three girls first entered the smaller boat that had one man on it. Later, they are reported to have gone aboard the larger craft that had three men on it. There is a belief that they spent some time back on the beach in the time between being on the boats. I assume you mean the driver of the smaller boat may have been showing off at a high speed and flipped it. If that is the case, how could they have later been seen aboard the larger craft? Also, I can understand how one or even two bodies going into Lake Michigan may not be found, but what about six (three women and the reported three men)? I would also think there would be wreckage of some kind seen in the hours and even days after an accident.

The approximate weather in that area could be found by checking microfilm of area newspapers from that weekend. I tend to think it was warm weather (mid-70's up into the 80's) with sunny or partly sunny skies. Good enough for a number of people to be on the beach and in boats on that day.

STANDREID
07-09-2012, 07:12 PM
That is a well traveled area so could that many floating bodies and accompanying debris go unseen for days/weeks? In my estimation, the simplest solution as to their fate is that they were murdered and their weighted bodies were dropped into the lake.

Richard
07-11-2012, 10:24 PM
Richard -

Your post offers quite a bit to consider and you are to be thanked for all that you provided. May I just ask a couple of questions?

In the reports on this story, two boats have been mentioned in connection with the three women. One has been described as a 16-18 foot fiberglass trimaran runabout. The other was a 26-28 foot Trojan cabin cruiser. Some say the three girls first entered the smaller boat that had one man on it. Later, they are reported to have gone aboard the larger craft that had three men on it. There is a belief that they spent some time back on the beach in the time between being on the boats. I assume you mean the driver of the smaller boat may have been showing off at a high speed and flipped it. If that is the case, how could they have later been seen aboard the larger craft? Also, I can understand how one or even two bodies going into Lake Michigan may not be found, but what about six (three women and the reported three men)? I would also think there would be wreckage of some kind seen in the hours and even days after an accident.

The approximate weather in that area could be found by checking microfilm of area newspapers from that weekend. I tend to think it was warm weather (mid-70's up into the 80's) with sunny or partly sunny skies. Good enough for a number of people to be on the beach and in boats on that day.

There was a movie, according to case summary information, which showed that there were different two boats which were near the beach at two different time. However, it has never been conclusively proven that the girls were on both boats. It has been Speculated, but not proven.

In my previous post, I suggested that that film footage be analyzed to determine if, in fact, the three girls who boarded the smaller runabout were the same three girls seen on the Cabin Cruiser some hours later. They would probably be wearing the same swim suits on both boats. For that matter, can it be determined that the small boat operator was one of the men filmed on the larger boat?

There is a lot of conflicting information and witness testimony, but as the police indicated, they tended to believe the initial witnesses as most reliable. Those witnesses stated on the day that the girls disappeared that the girls left their stuff on the beach, swam out to and boarded the smaller craft, and NEVER RETURNED for their stuff. These first witnesses did NOT state that they saw the girls on the larger boat.

Several days later, someone else claimed to have seen the three girls ashore between alleged boat rides. Did that witness actually know the women? Did he actually see the same three women? And could he say positively (several days after the fact) that it was at say 2PM instead of 11 AM?

IF these women were murdered, it wouldn't make any sense to cruise around with them for several hours, parading them in front of so many witnesses on the beach. And IF there was some accident in the open water - out of sight of witnesses - it would more likely be in a fast moving surface skimmer than on a larger, more stable platform. If a small boat were to flip or collide with something, it would be more difficult to get out an emergency message than if a larger boat came into distress.

My point about the weather is that while it might be a nice day on the beach, the weather affects boating significantly if the waves are high or if there is rain or lightning. The rougher the weather and water, the more likely chance of a boating accident.

Knowing the weather, winds, currents, etc would have provided the Coast Guard with necessary information to search for possible victims - but they would have to know that there had been a boating accident before they would begin such a search. In fact, I think that any searching was conducted in and around the park itself.

In regard to a possible accident and missing persons, Lake Michigan is not a small body of water. There may have been a lot of boats near shore, but simply heading north away from the beach would quickly take a boat well out of the sight from shore or other boats.

Again, analyzing the film could provide significant clues toward solving this case. Every boat is required to display its registration numbers and letters on both sides of its bow, and knowing those numbers would allow an investigator to determine who owned the boat at the time - and every subsequent owner as well.

Marilynilpa
07-12-2012, 12:40 AM
Richard, as always you have stated your point well. I had never thought much about the possibility of a boat accident until your earlier post and then this last post.

If this is what happened then we also have a missing male. I'll do a quick search (if you haven't already) to see if we have a male missing since 7/2/66, or a male UID that might match up.

I think the smaller boat is key to this mystery. It is too bad no identifying numbers could be seen on the smaller boat.

Marilynilpa
07-12-2012, 01:17 AM
A quick check of missing men doesn't seem to have anything related to the time frame of July 1966. Tomorrow I'll check more thoroughly and use a larger time frame.

There are a lot of UIDs, so that might take a while to go through them all.

kemo
07-12-2012, 02:24 PM
Bodies are normally buoyant at the time of death. A person who has minimal body fat (more likely a man) might sink. A body put into water, unless there is relatively high body fat, will eventually sink as the lungs fill up with water. Drowning victims are more likely to sink faster than victims of other causes of death because it involves at least partial filling of the lungs with water.

At some point after death, depending on many factors, most bodies will float to the surface because of gases in the abdominal cavity that form as part of the decomposition process cause the body to inflate. Bodies will tend to float for days before they decay sufficiently to sink again. The speed will depend on many variables.

Bodies can drift toward shore and be found there but in areas with relatively high small boat traffic they are usually found by others in small boats. I live near a large lake and virtually every drowning victim is found by another boater within about 5 days. I doubt that anyone could claim with absolute certainty that if 4 people died in a small boat "mishap" on the southern coast of Lake Michigan at the time, at least one body would have been found, but I bet it would have been extremely likely.

Realistically, I give Indiana/Illinois Law enforcement credit to have made the connection had a guy alone in a Tri Hull disappeared on the same day as the three women.

The buoyancy of death bodies is surprising. Anyone who follows true crime might recall cases where bodies that were weighted down with concrete still floated to the surface. (The Oba Chandler case in Tampa comes to mind). If the guy in the Tri hull did it, he was prepared with three very effective weights.

Something that isn't clear is what, if any effort was made to locate either boat or its owner. I would think there would not have been that many of either boat out on the lake that day and, with reasonable publicity, the owners would have come forward if they had nothing to hide.

I can see a sexual predator using a "fun" boat like a Tri Hull to lure one or more women into his boat and out to where he could have his way. It seems far less likely that three men would do it together in a cabin cruiser. Cabin Cruisers are far more distinctive and much more likely to be recognized and realistically, when have three men worked together on a sexual assault? It is usually a solo effort with the rare 2 man team.

Richard
07-12-2012, 06:56 PM
Whether these three women were murdered or perished in a boating accident, I feel that the key person of interest would be the Tri Hull driver.

He may have owned, rented, borrowed, or even stolen the boat. Checking out reports of missing boats would have been a good idea.

As one can see by looking at the index of various Missing Persons sites, there are fewer listed cases for each year, as you look back in time. This does not mean that people were not reported as missing at the time, but that fewer of those cases have made it to the internet websites.

Perhaps scanning on the Social Security Death index for dates of death on or shortly after 2 July 1966 would develop some possibilities for further research. For instance, perhaps the driver of the Tri Hull runabout died in a mishap and only his body was found... Probably a long shot, but a possibility.

kemo
07-12-2012, 07:59 PM
Whether these three women were murdered or perished in a boating accident, I feel that the key person of interest would be the Tri Hull driver.

He may have owned, rented, borrowed, or even stolen the boat. Checking out reports of missing boats would have been a good idea.

As one can see by looking at the index of various Missing Persons sites, there are fewer listed cases for each year, as you look back in time. This does not mean that people were not reported as missing at the time, but that fewer of those cases have made it to the internet websites.

Perhaps scanning on the Social Security Death index for dates of death on or shortly after 2 July 1966 would develop some possibilities for further research. For instance, perhaps the driver of the Tri Hull runabout died in a mishap and only his body was found... Probably a long shot, but a possibility.

If LE and Coast Guard in the Illinois/Indiana shore of Lake Michigan were looking for a Tri Hull in connection with the three missing women AND processing a wreaked/sunk/missing /stolen Tri Hull in the same general area, you'd think they would consider the possibility of same kind of connection.
It has occurred to me that had the owner survived some sort of mishap and the three women didn't, he might deny anyone else was onboard to avoid liability. That still wouldn't explain why no bodies were recovered. I think the guy took them so far out, they submitted to his control, them he killed them and dumped their bodies with sufficient weight that they never resurfaced.
.

Richard
07-12-2012, 10:15 PM
A Tri Hull runabout of this size would very likely have been trailered to a launching ramp and put into the lake. The trailer and the towing vehicle would then have been parked.

Another scenario to consider is that the Tri Hull driver could have taken the three women back to the loading ramp with a promise to drive them back to the beach area of the park. Wearing only their swimsuits, and without another reasonable way to get back, they might readily have gone with him in his vehicle.

From the boat ramp, he could have driven them anywhere.

Cincinnati Kid
07-14-2012, 08:56 AM
I think it would be very difficult for one individual to keep control over the three women. Of course, he could have just quickly shot each, but in terms of holding the three captive, that might be a tall order unless he had assistance from others - such as some on a second boat.

You do wonder if the man on the boat was known to one or all of the three women. You would think they would be more cautious than to go out on the water with someone they didn't know.

kemo
07-14-2012, 01:56 PM
I think it would be very difficult for one individual to keep control over the three women. Of course, he could have just quickly shot each, but in terms of holding the three captive, that might be a tall order unless he had assistance from others - such as some on a second boat.

You do wonder if the man on the boat was known to one or all of the three women. You would think they would be more cautious than to go out on the water with someone they didn't know.


Read up on the Oba Chandler case in Tampa . He lured three women out on his boat and ended up raping and killing them. I could see three women feeling safty in numbers going off with a guy in a boat they didn't know. I can imagine different ways he could control them. Way out in a boat, they would be pretty vulnerable. A weapon might do it. I can think of a number of case where one man was able to restrain three women. A common way would be to threaten them with a knife or gun and have one tie up the other two. Three women should be able ato take on one guy if they were able to co-ordinate their attack, but he would probably have the advantage of surprise.

Marilynilpa
07-15-2012, 06:06 AM
Read up on the Oba Chandler case in Tampa . He lured three women out on his boat and ended up raping and killing them. I could see three women feeling safty in numbers going off with a guy in a boat they didn't know. I can imagine different ways he could control them. Way out in a boat, they would be pretty vulnerable. A weapon might do it. I can think of a number of case where one man was able to restrain three women. A common way would be to threaten them with a knife or gun and have one tie up the other two. Three women should be able ato take on one guy if they were able to co-ordinate their attack, but he would probably have the advantage of surprise.

Nice post, kemo, and I agree with you 100%. Three women going off with one man would feel pretty safe. After all, they would be on a boat out in the open - what could possibly go wrong? Unfortunately, we know the answer to that with Oba Chandler.

I have wondered why no bodies have been found, but in a prior post someone mentioned that the women could have been taken out of the park in the boat - after all, wouldn't the boat have been towed on a trailer?

Maybe the women weren't killed on the boat, just subdued/drugged and taken away in the boat to who knows where. That would explain the lack of bodies after all this time.

I also wonder about Richard's idea that maybe there had been a boating accident that resulted accidentally in the deaths of these women.

It is terrible to think about three women vanishing without a trace.

Bargle
07-15-2012, 09:01 AM
Some things I see against the boating accident idea.
None of the bodies have surfaced. One body not surfacing isn't unreasonable, but all 3? Not even parts? Maybe if the boat driver survived the accident and recovered and hid the bodies. I wish we had someone knowledgeable about circumstances where bodies have stayed submerged. I know it can happen, but how?
If the boat driver had been killed as well, he would have been reported missing at some point. If the boat had been trailered to the lake, he would left behind a vehicle with trailer. If he lived on the lake, surely someone would have noticed him missing after a while. Mail and perhaps, newspapers piling up at his home, even if he lived alone.

Marilynilpa
07-15-2012, 11:56 AM
Bumping for Patricia Blough, Ann Miller and Renee Bruhl, two days after the 46th anniversary of their disappearance.

It's good to see you back!

Marilynilpa
07-15-2012, 12:25 PM
I'm re-posting the link to an article about Dick Wylie and his "abortion" theory:

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-new-theories-surface-on-decade-110510,0,2189234.story

I have a lot of questions about this theory.

First of all, Wylie names Ralph Largo, Jr. as being the driver of the smaller boat the three girls were seen on.

How the heck does Wylie know that? Sure, Largo might fit the description of the boat driver, but so do thousands of other guys. It was a fairly generic description.

Wylie mentions that Largo was at the beach that day. I don't know if that's true, but if so, big deal. So were about 9,000 other folks, according to what I've read.

Does anyone know if such an abortion boat/boats ever operated in Lake Michigan? I've tried a variety of search options and could't find anything.

I seriously question this abortion boat scenario, and Wylie's "facts."

If anyone has read Wylie's book, I'd love to hear your opinions.

kemo
07-15-2012, 01:49 PM
In the mid 1960's the mother of a friend of mine died from an illegal abortion. It was an all too common occurrence. Her death was typical of these death. It was a result of an infection that occurred a few days later and was not properly treated. Few women died during the abortion, it generally came later and could have been avoided if had the women gone to an emergency room. Instead, out of fear, they either did nothing or returned to the "non-doctor" who performed the abortion.

The illegal abortion industry thrived in an "under the radar" way like the illegal drug industry does today. Any woman who "needed" an abortion could easily arrange one and, depending on what you could pay, the quality of the medical care "varied". I suspect that this is the explanation of a certain number of "missing women" from the pre Roe vs. Wade era. (Anyone want to return to the "good old days"?)

Marilynilpa
07-15-2012, 02:50 PM
In the mid 1960's the mother of a friend of mine died from an illegal abortion. It was an all too common occurrence. Her death was typical of these death. It was a result of an infection that occurred a few days later and was not properly treated. Few women died during the abortion, it generally came later and could have been avoided if had the women gone to an emergency room. Instead, out of fear, they either did nothing or returned to the "non-doctor" who performed the abortion.

The illegal abortion industry thrived in an "under the radar" way like the illegal drug industry does today. Any woman who "needed" an abortion could easily arrange one and, depending on what you could pay, the quality of the medical care "varied". I suspect that this is the explanation of a certain number of "missing women" from the pre Roe vs. Wade era. (Anyone want to return to the "good old days"?)


I'm from the "good old days" and have no desire to return to them for the most part.

I agree with you - a certain number of missing women pre Roe v. Wade may well be attributed to botched abortions. In fact, I have spent a couple of years researching a disappearance of a coed in the '40s who I think died as a result of an abortion. I also have similar suspicions about a case from the '20s. Not only was infection prevalent, there were also cases of women bleeding to death from their procedures. Truly horrible.

Regarding my previous post, what I specifically wanted to know is if anyone has read or heard about "abortion boats" on Lake Michigan. When I Google for info, I don't find anything.

Cincinnati Kid
07-15-2012, 02:57 PM
In reading about this case in the past, I did read that one of the women was pregnant. The report by Wylie says two of them were. There are obvious questions about this theory:


Were both girls who were allegedly pregnant going to have an abordon that day? Was the third girl, Renee Bruhl, with them because of her reported medical training?

Why would they choose such a public place as the beach at Indiana Dunes State Park to be picked up rather than a more secluded location?

Was anything regarding the alleged involvement of Ralph Largo, Jr. and his aunt and uncle reported to law enforcement authorities?

Although Wylie's report gives Largo, Jr.'s name, why didn't he give the names of the aunt and uncle?


It's an interesting theory, but one that also brings some new questions.

Marilynilpa
07-15-2012, 03:10 PM
In reading about this case in the past, I did read that one of the women was pregnant. The report by Wylie says two of them were. There are obvious questions about this theory:


Were both girls who were allegedly pregnant going to have an abordon that day? Was the third girl, Renee Bruhl, with them because of her reported medical training?

Why would they choose such a public place as the beach at Indiana Dunes State Park to be picked up rather than a more secluded location?

Was anything regarding the alleged involvement of Ralph Largo, Jr. and his aunt and uncle reported to law enforcement authorities?

Although Wylie's report gives Largo, Jr.'s name, why didn't he give the names of the aunt and uncle?


It's an interesting theory, but one that also brings some new questions.

You're asking many of the same questions I'm wondering about.

I think Wylie didn't mention Largo's aunt and uncle by name for fear of a libel lawsuit. I think his statement that the driver of the boat was Ralph Largo, Jr. is very far-fetched, unless Wylie was privy to info that none of us has seen.

The whole "abortion boat" idea is hard for me to believe but, as kemo reminded us in his post, in those days you couldn't go to a family planning clinic or elsewhere for a legal abortion.

STANDREID
07-15-2012, 05:15 PM
Would you leave all your belongings on a public beach to go get an abortion? That really makes no sense to me. If you are going out to a boat for an abortion, why even go to a beach at all? Just go to a dock and catch your ride out there, otherwise you're just increasing you chance of being discovered. I would put this near the bottom of the possibility list although it would still mean at least two of the girls were murdered to keep them quiet.

Marilynilpa
07-15-2012, 05:59 PM
Would you leave all your belongings on a public beach to go get an abortion? That really makes no sense to me. If you are going out to a boat for an abortion, why even go to a beach at all? Just go to a dock and catch you ride out there otherwise you're just increasing you chance of being discovered. I would put this near the bottom of the possibility list although it would still mean at least two of the girls were murdered to keep them quiet.

This whole abortion thing sounds ridiculous to me. I think I will check "abortion boat" off my list of possibilities.

Richard
07-15-2012, 08:36 PM
As with any unsolved missing person case, you have to consider a wide range of possible scenarios. Those based on facts and reason are probably the strongest possbilities, but there can be a large number of other scenarios or theories as well.

I like to consider as a "possible" scenario for any disappearance, the beaming up to a UFO by space aliens. I use that one as a gage by which to evaluate all other possible scenarios, it being on one end of the "likelyhood" spectrum.

As others have pointed out, the "abortion boat" - while possible - it is not very likely for a number of reasons.

A boat or ship in Lake Michigan would not be immune to performing illegal operations of any kind. A boat with a large enough space to perform operations would be huge. And where would it anchor? Imagine the difficulties of performing surgery in a boat moving about at sea, or being tossed by waves at anchor.

And what Captain would risk his ship and license by dealing with abortionists? And murderers???

No amount of abortion money could possibly pay for the fuel, the crew pay, etc. It just would not be cost effective or a profit making venture.

Also, consider that IF the girls intended to go to such an unlikely vessel, why would they arrange to be picked out of the water in their swim suits, with all their stuff lying on the beach? How would they pay for an abortion?

And if they went to sea for an abortion, what was the plan for their return - dump them back in the water and have them swim to shore?

Such a scenario makes no sense at all to me. My dilemma is on which side of the space alien scenario I should place it.

This is a perplexing case. The best information available seems to indicate to me that these three women came to the park for a Saturday of fun and relaxation on the beach, went for a swim and were picked up by a young man in a motor boat, and never returned for their things or their car.

Other subsequent witness testimony tends to muddy the water a bit with additional, but unsubstantiated/ questionable information. But the movie of the two boats could be a real piece of evidence.

I feel that the girls probably did board the Trihull runnabout motor boat with the young man, but do not think that they boarded the larger boat seen several hours later. The young man is the key person of interest. He knows what became of the girls.

Marilynilpa
07-15-2012, 10:37 PM
I feel that the girls probably did board the Trihull runnabout motor boat with the young man, but do not think that they boarded the larger boat seen several hours later. The young man is the key person of interest. He knows what became of the girls.

Snipped (respectfully).

I agree with you - I don't thing the cabin cruiser has anything to do with the girls' disappearance.

I don't know much about boats, so I tried to find a photo 1960s model Tri-Hull. The closest I could find was a 1970 model:

http://s1.yzimg.com/0001an5rf4n32fb8.640x480

I'm not sure how similar this is to the Lake Michigan Tri-Hull. Richard, any comments?

Richard
07-16-2012, 07:10 PM
...
I don't know much about boats, so I tried to find a photo 1960s model Tri-Hull. The closest I could find was a 1970 model:

http://s1.yzimg.com/0001an5rf4n32fb8.640x480

I'm not sure how similar this is to the Lake Michigan Tri-Hull. Richard, any comments?

The photo shows the hull design pretty well. I think, however, that the windshield arrangement of the boat in the photo is rather atypical. Most of these boats had the windshield further back, and a rail around the bow (front) of the boat.

A Tri Hull Runnabout was primarily a fast moving boat with a powerful outboard motor. They might be used to tow water skiers, but not much of a work boat or fishing boat.

They are not very large, usually about 16 to 20 feet in length, and they have usually six built in seats: Two back on either side of the motor, two forward, and two amidships. The driver would sit in the right hand seat amidships. Some had a fold-down "Bimini" top. It would be the equivalent of a sporty convertible automobile. The top was mainly to shade you from bright sun, rather than from rain.

That said, you could almost bank on getting wet from the water spray thrown up from the bow when cruising at high speed - especially those riding in the forward part of the boat. (Which is probably the reason for the windshield design in the pictured boat.)

A Tri Hull runabout skims the surface and would tend to bob around in high waves or choppy water.

These boats were mostly trailered to and from lakes for use, and spent most of their days on the trailer parked at the owner's house. They are a bit heavy and large to handle by hand. You could not launch them easily from a beach and they have no oar locks for manual rowing. But they are smaller than most boats which require a permanent docking berth.

Because they are essentially "open boats" their use is confined usually to nice sunny days and good weather. Strictly a pleasure boat.

The large outboard motor would usually be a 75 horsepower or higher Evinrude, Mercury, or Johnson (all American makes). They ran on a mixture of gasoline and oil and used a LOT of it. A gas tank of between 10 and 15 gallons might be installed internally near the motor, or the owner might use two five gallon portable tanks. Gasoline is (of course) highly flamable and the danger of fire or explosion was always possible. A fire extinguisher or two was always mandatory.

Marilynilpa
07-16-2012, 07:37 PM
The photo shows the hull design pretty well. I think, however, that the windshield arrangement of the boat in the photo is rather atypical. Most of these boats had the windshield further back, and a rail around the bow (front) of the boat.

A Tri Hull Runnabout was primarily a fast moving boat with a powerful outboard motor. They might be used to tow water skiers, but not much of a work boat or fishing boat.

They are not very large, usually about 16 to 20 feet in length, and they have usually six built in seats: Two back on either side of the motor, two forward, and two amidships. The driver would sit in the right hand seat amidships. Some had a fold-down "Bimini" top. It would be the equivalent of a sporty convertible automobile. The top was mainly to shade you from bright sun, rather than from rain.

That said, you could almost bank on getting wet from the water spray thrown up from the bow when cruising at high speed - especially those riding in the forward part of the boat. (Which is probably the reason for the windshield design in the pictured boat.)

A Tri Hull runabout skims the surface and would tend to bob around in high waves or choppy water.

These boats were mostly trailered to and from lakes for use, and spent most of their days on the trailer parked at the owner's house. They are a bit heavy and large to handle by hand. You could not launch them easily from a beach and they have no oar locks for manual rowing. But they are smaller than most boats which require a permanent docking berth.

Because they are essentially "open boats" their use is confined usually to nice sunny days and good weather. Strictly a pleasure boat.

The large outboard motor would usually be a 75 horsepower or higher Evinrude, Mercury, or Johnson (all American makes). They ran on a mixture of gasoline and oil and used a LOT of it. A gas tank of between 10 and 15 gallons might be installed internally near the motor, or the owner might use two five gallon protable tanks. Gasoline is (of course) highly flamable and the danger of fire or explosion was always possible. A fire extinguisher or two was always mandatory.

After looking at the photo and reading your description, I'm changing my mind about the three women being taken out of the park in the boat. It doesn't seem like a safe way to get three dead (or incapacitated) women out of a busy park on a holiday weekend.

Richard
07-16-2012, 09:13 PM
The boat launch area may have been somewhere in the same park where the beach was, but it would have been some distance away from the beach.

If this was where the Tri Hull was launched, it had to be recovered there as well. There would have been other boaters in and out of the launch area constantly, standing on the dock and watching the launches and recoveries. So three women dead or incapacitated in an open boat would have been noticed immediately.

It is very possible that the boat driver brought the girls to the launch area, let them out onto the dock and then got them to help him get the boat back on the trailer and out of the water. He may have then either parked his trailer/boat and drove them somewhere, or just kept the trailer attatched to his vehicle and gave them a ride elsewhere in his vehicle.

It actually would have made more sense to do that than to drive up close to the beach and make them jump in and swim for shore. It is likely that there was some required stand-off distance for boats regarding the swimming beach. That stand-off distance would probably have been something like 200 or 300 yards from shore. Obviously, for safety reasons, you don't want motor boats driving through beach areas. In fact, I wonder how far out the girls swam to get on his boat in the first place.

Cincinnati Kid
07-17-2012, 08:36 AM
I wonder how far out the girls swam to get on his boat in the first place.

Regardless of regulations on boats staying a distance from the swimming area, the boat would probably have had to be close enough to the beach for it and the occupants (the man and three women) to have been seen on the film made by the home movie camera.

Richard
07-17-2012, 05:11 PM
Regardless of regulations on boats staying a distance from the swimming area, the boat would probably have had to be close enough to the beach for it and the occupants (the man and three women) to have been seen on the film made by the home movie camera.

Very true. The movie cameras back then were usually handheld 8mm types which were not very high resolution. It is possible that the camera was a larger 16 mm. They were much more expensive and bulky, but had much higher resolution and clarity. A telephoto lens would make for better resolution as well. We just do not know what kind of camera it was.

The boats would have had to be somewhat close in order to even make out people on board. Wish we knew the specifics. Do the investigators even have a copy of that film today? Or access to the origional to make an enhanced version with todays technology?

Cincinnati Kid
07-18-2012, 08:06 AM
I assume the agency that did the investigation has the original or, at least, a copy. I have wondered if that agency has considered using modern technology to try and obtain more identification of the boat in question or other details that are pictured on that film.

marie-chantal
07-19-2012, 01:32 PM
I was looking at another case, and there is something in this article that jumped out at me in a big way.

http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/2012/02/23/living-a-life-unknown/awu0ovx/

Read about Jane Doe in this article. She is still living, suffers dementia and has vague memories of visiting the Indiana Dunes when she was younger.

Richard
08-22-2012, 02:08 PM
The Trihull Runabout Boat

I think that the most solid lead investigators had was the early report by eyewitnesses who stated that they saw the girls get into a Trihull runabout motor boat driven by a young man. These same witnesses stated that the girls left their stuff on the beach and did not return for it.

Days later, other witnesses came forward. Some confirmed the Trihull runabout story, others gave conflicting testimony, and others added different information.

While any or all of the witnesses may have been correct in their memories, I feel that the strongest lead was the origional story, and that they should concentrate on locating that motorboat and its operator. Below are some links which show photos of Trihull runabouts.

As you can see, they are small, sporty, speed boats much like a small convertable sports car.

LINKs:

http://www.hhscott.com/evinrude/marine_survey.htm

http://www.fiberglassics.com/library/Thunderbird

Cincinnati Kid
08-29-2012, 01:13 PM
It's unfortunate that more information on the boat was not obtained with-in the weeks after the incident. Where might authorities look now - these 46 years later?

STANDREID
08-29-2012, 01:35 PM
I wonder if any of the witnesses are still living not that it's likely to matter.

Richard
09-01-2012, 12:21 AM
If the movie footage of the trihull still exists, perhaps the image of the boat's registration number on the bow could be enhanced and read. Or at least the specific make and model of boat might be learned.

The states of Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan Departments of Natural Resources might still have boat registration records dating back to 1966.

former central time
10-05-2012, 10:45 PM
I first learned of this incident by reading an article in a detective magazine back in the 1980's. The story was also contained in a book that came out some years ago about unsolved Chicago area murders and disappearances. I can recall that weekend and remember that July 4th came on a Monday.

Had this disappearance taken place in more recent years, there would be intensive coverage by cable news networks and it would have no doubt been reported on newscasts by the major networks and network morning shows would probably have had family members on to talk about it. I do wonder what kind of coverage it received in such newspapers as the Chicago Tribune and for how long?

Although it took place over 45 years ago, I think there are still some who know what happened to these women and who was responsible.


Fascinating case, no doubt. About the initial media coverage, and I haven’t read much of the original works, but remember this is less than two weeks before the infamous Richard Speck murders in Chicago. That investigation, trial and publicity might have overshadowed this case during the early days.

About the film shot, I don’t know what kind of film it was but remember the Zapruder film ? That’s from this period, shot on 8mm, color and modern investigative works have uncovered stunning clarity. If you’re curious about it, check out the ABC program ‘Beyond Conspiracy with Peter Jennings.’ Produced in 2003, it’s available on DVD and rentable on Netflix.

Richard
10-16-2012, 10:41 AM
Fascinating case, no doubt. About the initial media coverage, and I haven’t read much of the original works, but remember this is less than two weeks before the infamous Richard Speck murders in Chicago. That investigation, trial and publicity might have overshadowed this case during the early days.

About the film shot, I don’t know what kind of film it was but remember the Zapruder film ? That’s from this period, shot on 8mm, color and modern investigative works have uncovered stunning clarity. If you’re curious about it, check out the ABC program ‘Beyond Conspiracy with Peter Jennings.’ Produced in 2003, it’s available on DVD and rentable on Netflix.

The Murders of Eight Student Nurses in Chicago by Richard Speck were particularly gruesome and the story was front page national news for weeks. Life Magazine dedicated a whole issue to covering them.

The disappearance of these three women from Indiana Dunes State Park, on the other hand, was more of a local story of limited distribution and coverage. To my knowledge the two cases were never linked in news stories of the time, and I do not know if police ever considered any possible connections.

Personally, I feel that the two cases were NOT connected. I base this on Speck's personallity and MO. He was a particularly creepy guy - not exactly a lady's man. If he showed up in a boat, you would probably swim to shore rather than climb aboard.

When he invaded the house where the student nurses were staying, he basically strong-armed his way in and coerced them with weapons into a single room. He did not try to lure them into a fun time or boat ride. He simply armed himself, sneaked into their home and attacked them quickly and violently .

Regarding the movie film... I wish that we knew more about it and if it exists today. It might help in resolving the case.

Mouse
12-09-2012, 03:09 PM
I haven't been following this thread over the years so I don't know if there's anything new in the following article, but I thought I'd post the link here in any case:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/justice-story/3-girls-beach-found-article-1.1216303


"Three young women took a boat ride on Lake Michigan in 1966 ... and were never seen again

Retired newspaper reporter believes disappearance of Patty Blough, Renee Bruhl and Ann Miller is linked to couple who performed abortion on houseboat"

By David J. Krajicek / NEW YORK DAILY NEWS
Published: Sunday, December 9, 2012, 2:00 AM
Updated: Sunday, December 9, 2012, 2:00 AM

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/justice-story/3-girls-beach-found-article-1.1216303#ixzz2EaTPUd5e

Cincinnati Kid
12-10-2012, 07:00 PM
The theory given by the former newspaper reporter was previously provided here, but thanks for providing the N.Y. Daily News article from yesterday.

I don't agree with that theory, mainly because it seems like the two girls would have gone through too many un-necessary steps that day, like going to a public beach, leaving their belongings behind, etc. Why wouldn't they have met a boat taking them to a houseboat for something like an abortion at a more secluded location? Wouldn't they have wanted their personal belongings with them? There might be something to the couple providing abortions although it seems like there would have been easier and more secretive ways to do that than on a boat in Lake Michigan.

Markybug
01-19-2013, 12:34 AM
Bumping this up. On the subject of the small tri hull, do they have to be registered etc? Similar to a car? Just this could be a way of tracing ownership.


Mark.

Richard
01-20-2013, 11:02 PM
Bumping this up. On the subject of the small tri hull, do they have to be registered etc? Similar to a car? Just this could be a way of tracing ownership.


Mark.

Boats have hull numbers or Serial numbers on them placed there by the manufacturer. They serve the same purpose as a Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) on a motor vehicle.

Each state has laws which specify requirements for Boat title and registration. And those laws vary and differ slightly from state to state. But... generally speaking, to be registered, a boat has to first be titled.

Some factors which go into the determination as to whether or not a boat must be licensed are;
- boat length
- motor size (in horse power)
- intended usage

Some boats do not have to be registered. These would be boats or canoes which are under 16 feet in length and are only rowed or paddled manually. In most states, a boat with a motor of more than 10 horsepower would have to be registerd.

A boat can be titled and registered in any state and then kept in another one. Unlike car registrations which have to be in your state of residence, it is not necessary to re-title and re-register a boat if you move with the boat to another state.

A boat registration number is issued by the State Department of Natural Resources to the boat owner. It consists of two letters, followed by four numerals, followed by the two letter abbreviation for the state in which it is registered. Example: AG 1234 MD.

The boat owner afixes these letters and numerals (usually three inches high) to both sides of the bow, along with the annual validation sticker and any other special use stickers (such as Crabbing or Fishing licenses).

That same combination of registration letters and numerals stays with the boat each successive year, even if the boat is sold to someone else - as long as the new owner re-registers it in the same state.

former central time
02-25-2013, 10:46 PM
The Murders of Eight Student Nurses in Chicago by Richard Speck were particularly gruesome and the story was front page national news for weeks. Life Magazine dedicated a whole issue to covering them.

The disappearance of these three women from Indiana Dunes State Park, on the other hand, was more of a local story of limited distribution and coverage. To my knowledge the two cases were never linked in news stories of the time, and I do not know if police ever considered any possible connections.

Personally, I feel that the two cases were NOT connected. I base this on Speck's personallity and MO. He was a particularly creepy guy - not exactly a lady's man. If he showed up in a boat, you would probably swim to shore rather than climb aboard.

When he invaded the house where the student nurses were staying, he basically strong-armed his way in and coerced them with weapons into a single room. He did not try to lure them into a fun time or boat ride. He simply armed himself, sneaked into their home and attacked them quickly and violently .



Agreed, I don’t think the two cases are remotely related. The comparison of of the two was for timing (perhaps a little local geography). Meaning, early attention to this case, even locally, might have been overshadowed by the Speck case which garnered a nation swarm of media.

Richard
06-28-2013, 03:47 PM
This Tuesday will mark the 47 year anniversary of the disappearance of these three young women.

meanmaryjean
06-28-2013, 04:17 PM
I'm not sure the women will ever be found, but I DO think this crime is solvable. The ties to the horse stable and the Helen Brach case are tantalizing.....

Cincinnati Kid
06-28-2013, 07:34 PM
This Tuesday will mark the 47 year anniversary of the disappearance of these three young women.

In 1966, July 4 fell on a Monday - thus the day the three women were last seen was Saturday, July 2.

Until today, there hasn't been anything written on this topic for some months. Maybe this will get it started again. Still a mystery for almost 47 years.

neverletgo
07-02-2013, 01:47 PM
:bump: for Renee, Patricia, and Ann, missing 47 years today. :(

http://www.charleyproject.org/images/b/bruhl_renee.jpg
Renee Bruhl (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/bruhl_renee.html)


http://www.charleyproject.org/images/b/blough_patricia.jpg
Patricia Blough (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/blough_patricia.html)


http://www.charleyproject.org/images/m/miller_ann.jpg
Ann Miller (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/miller_ann.html)

carolann0308
08-15-2013, 09:59 PM
I always thought the abortion on a boat or horse thieves following them to the beach theories were far fetched at best.
In this weeks paper I read of a young boy at the same park being swallowed by a sinkhole, his family saw it happen and was able to get him out although he is still in the hospital. Yesterday another sinkhole appeared.

I racked my brain for two days wondering why the name of a park 1000 miles from my house sounded so familiar. Then I remembered the story of the missing girls.
I wonder if in light of this the police may look into the ground itself for answers.

STANDREID
08-15-2013, 10:04 PM
Yes - good thinking. Not too likely in my view but certainly can't be ruled out.

I had a girlfriend who visited the park around that time and in the mid 60s it was known as an area (just outside the park) where underage kids could easily acquire alcohol. Two of the girls weren't 21 yet.

Cincinnati Kid
08-20-2013, 09:19 AM
Because there were so many people on the beach the day the three women disappeared (July 2, 1966), they would no doubt have seen something like a sinkhole or similar event. What was reported to have been seen was the three of them talking to a man or men and then getting aboard a boat there. That is what I assume authorities have tried to work with in the time since.

Richard
10-10-2013, 10:16 AM
2009 Northwest Times News article:

BRUHL, BLOUGH, MILLER: Dunes disappearance remains unsolved 43 years later

3 Chicago-area women left only a smattering of belongings on beach blanket

By Susan Erler
August 03, 2009

Three young women, two still in their teens, vanished from a crowded Indiana beach on a hot July Fourth weekend 43 years ago.

Police and park officials, aided by scores of volunteers, combed sand dunes and scoured murky Lake Michigan water. But the search proved futile, and the women never were seen again.

What happened to them is a mystery that continues to grip the imagination of a man who latched onto the story from Day One.

"From the first day -- the first hour that call came in -- I've been following it," said Dick Wylie, then Northwest Indiana bureau chief for the Chicago Sun-Times. "It's been part of my life for 43 years."



<modsnip>

Renee Bruhl, 19; Patricia Blough, 19; and Ann Miller, 21, last were seen aboard a boat heading west from Indiana Dunes State Park on July 2, 1966. The disappearance of the Chicago-area women remains unsolved.

Anyone with information in the case is asked to call Indiana State Police's Lowell Post at (219) 696-6242.

LINK:

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/local/bruhl-blough-miller-dunes-disappearance-remains-unsolved-years-later/article_3df371d6-0ba6-5611-bfa6-9af13f00f34c.html

kline
10-16-2013, 04:51 AM
Ive been thinking about this case since the discoveries at Oklahoma's Foss Lake and the Creek in South Dakota.
What if the explanation is simple,a boating accident?
There was a case near here in Idaho's Hayden lake in 1964 where two teenage girls were involved in a speed boat collision.
One of the boats headed straight to the bottom intact and the two girls vanished .
A massive search turned up nothing then 18 years later in 1982 a salvage diver not only found the boat but the two bodies of the girls preserved by the cold depths of Hayden Lake.
Now I realize this presents some problems such as debris but depending on the nature of the accident there may not have been alot of debris (Its not like the Titanic went down).
And of course foremost what happened to the man with the boat since nobody matching that description was reported missing in that area and time frame but who knows?
How many decades old unidentified cadavers are there on Doe Network where apparently no one did much about raising a fuss over their disappearence?
Its just a thought but perhaps in this case the answer is simpler then some of us might suppose.
I mean when you step back and look at it:Three girls go for a boat ride leave their gear on the beach and never come back and the boat is never seen again.
Whats the first thing to come to mind?
But then again a boat usually equals a trailer and vehicle so that certainly puts a large hole in my hypothesis since an abandoned vehicle plus boat trailer would certainly have been discovered any where near Indian Dunes.
I dont know just trying to look at this with fresh eyes.

Markybug
10-16-2013, 07:24 AM
Could the boat have been moored at the lake?

Cincinnati Kid
10-18-2013, 10:31 AM
An explanation such as this one has some merit; however, what about others on the boat besides the three women? Could any missing persons reports have been filed about them? Reports say one or maybe two men were seen on the boat in question. Could those men have come from the Chicago area or a location even more distant? If so, missing reports for them may have been filed in those areas by family members over the next several days. As such, it does make things a more complex jigsaw puzzle.

STANDREID
12-08-2013, 08:33 PM
Very true. The movie cameras back then were usually handheld 8mm types which were not very high resolution. It is possible that the camera was a larger 16 mm. They were much more expensive and bulky, but had much higher resolution and clarity. A telephoto lens would make for better resolution as well. We just do not know what kind of camera it was.

With a 16mm camera there was also the potential for sound.

STANDREID
12-08-2013, 08:44 PM
The Murders of Eight Student Nurses in Chicago by Richard Speck were particularly gruesome and the story was front page national news for weeks. Life Magazine dedicated a whole issue to covering them.

The disappearance of these three women from Indiana Dunes State Park, on the other hand, was more of a local story of limited distribution and coverage. To my knowledge the two cases were never linked in news stories of the time, and I do not know if police ever considered any possible connections.

Yes, at the time, the Speck story was huge here in Central Illinois but I don't remember hearing about these disappearances anywhere. The first I learned about the case was in a book I read about 20 years ago.

Richard
12-10-2013, 07:03 PM
This is indeed a strange case. One person disappearing is rare, but three at once...

There are many possible scenarios which could have occurred. Most stated evidence and factors indicate that the three girls boarded a tri-hull runabout motor boat from the swimming area, leaving their personal belongings behind.

If that is what in fact occurred, I feel that some of the theories expressed, regarding such things as abortions, horse stealing rings, etc, are highly unlikley, because one has to try to mix together an evil plot with an aparent happenstance meeting.

A 16 - 18 foot tri-hull runabout is a small, fast boat which almost had to be trailered to the park, or an area nearby before launching that same day. The girls might have met the man/men earlier before entering the water and then the boat. Or they might have simply decided (while swimming) to take up an offer for a ride.

There was a later report of a larger boat with men and women on it being in or near the swimming area. Highly unlikely that the two boats transferred passengers at sea. Probably a coincidence with the two boats being unrelated. No one actually stated that they thought the three girls were on both boats, wheras they were seen boarding the small runabout.

STANDREID
12-10-2013, 08:40 PM
It strikes me as very odd that boats, especially power boats, would be allowed anywhere near a swimming area - it seems extremely dangerous. I am not suggesting that the women were run down while swimming, that would be next to impossible without leaving a trace, but I suppose we were not so risk averse back then - just an observation.

elliha
12-14-2013, 04:36 PM
I definitely believe it was a boat accident. Why no one reported the man? Well, maybe he was believed to have been somewhere completely different and no one has connected him to this case. Maybe he lived alone and wasn't very social? Maybe he had just moved and so on and so on. I am not one for complex and farfetched guesses, if there is a reasonable one I tend to stick to that one until something else is indicated. So, I believe this was a boating accident and for some reason no bodies turned up.

Also, about the man. What if he survived? He understood that the girls were gone and his boat was also gone and he just went home. He might have felt guilty and never dared to come forward. He might have been speeding and driven recklessly so he might even be charged.

Dragonfyree
12-14-2013, 09:19 PM
I'm not so sure about the boating accident.

Was it transported to the lake? Wouldn't the car & trailer still have been there.

Were there homes on the lake where it might have been docked - wouldn't the missing boat & owner be noticed if they lived there.

If it was stolen wouldn't it have been reported?

We know identification is very iffy, especially if they're total strangers. The three girls look very much alike, which makes me think the style of hair and general look would have matched hundreds of other girls on the lake that day and the girls seen getting on the boat may have been misidentified.

I think it may be as simple as someone walked up to them and asked for some type of help (Ted Bundy at Lake Sammamish) they probably would have felt safe since there were three of them.

Dragonfyree
12-16-2013, 02:41 AM
As to why no one came forward to say they were the people on the boat?

It was a holiday weekend. The people were from out of state and went home before the story hit big in the local news. I never look at local news when I'm on vacation in another town.

The eyewitness may have saw three girls and a guy, but could they see everywhere else on the boat? Did it have some kind of cabin. Maybe there were several more people on the boat, in a cabin, sunbathing on the deck that the witness didn't see. They figured "Oh we had 6 people on the boat or we had 4 girls on the boat or any number of variations, so never thought it was them.

Remember at this time local news was very local and unless a case was very unusual it never made national the news. I think the Barbara Mackle kidnapping occurred around 1968 - it was widely reported because of her being buried alive and her father was very rich. But that was unusual.

How many of these cases in the 1960's do you remember on your own, without having seen it here on the board. I would bet unless you lived in or near the town, you didn't hear about most of these, even some that we now find incredible.

elliha
12-16-2013, 04:19 AM
I'm not so sure about the boating accident.

Was it transported to the lake? Wouldn't the car & trailer still have been there.

Were there homes on the lake where it might have been docked - wouldn't the missing boat & owner be noticed if they lived there.

If it was stolen wouldn't it have been reported?

We know identification is very iffy, especially if they're total strangers. The three girls look very much alike, which makes me think the style of hair and general look would have matched hundreds of other girls on the lake that day and the girls seen getting on the boat may have been misidentified.

I think it may be as simple as someone walked up to them and asked for some type of help (Ted Bundy at Lake Sammamish) they probably would have felt safe since there were three of them.

If the guy survived the accident he would most likely have gotten into his car and driven home taking it and the trailer with him. If I remember correctly there were in fact parts from a boat found.

Sure, they might not have been the girls on the boat but there things were found by the lake so they were most likely there at least for a while.

Dragonfyree
12-16-2013, 08:16 AM
If the guy survived the accident he would most likely have gotten into his car and driven home taking it and the trailer with him. If I remember correctly there were in fact parts from a boat found.

Sure, they might not have been the girls on the boat but there things were found by the lake so they were most likely there at least for a while.

I believe they were at the lake, but I think there may be too much credit being given to them getting on a boat.

My question on a car & trailer was on the suspicion that there was a boat accident and every one got killed. If the boat owner was a survivor, what did he do, swim back to the beach? Wouldn't someone have noticed. For the entire boat to disappear and never be found, plus three bodies, they must have been in a deep part of the lake and it must have been crowded on a holiday weekend, wouldn't someone one have noticed a lone person in the middle of the lake. Wouldn't he have tried to get picked up and taken back to shore.

kline
12-16-2013, 08:53 AM
As to why no one came forward to say they were the people on the boat?

It was a holiday weekend. The people were from out of state and went home before the story hit big in the local news. I never look at local news when I'm on vacation in another town.

The eyewitness may have saw three girls and a guy, but could they see everywhere else on the boat? Did it have some kind of cabin. Maybe there were several more people on the boat, in a cabin, sunbathing on the deck that the witness didn't see. They figured "Oh we had 6 people on the boat or we had 4 girls on the boat or any number of variations, so never thought it was them.

Remember at this time local news was very local and unless a case was very unusual it never made national the news. I think the Barbara Mackle kidnapping occurred around 1968 - it was widely reported because of her being buried alive and her father was very rich. But that was unusual.

How many of these cases in the 1960's do you remember on your own, without having seen it here on the board. I would bet unless you lived in or near the town, you didn't hear about most of these, even some that we now find incredible.Very true.
the vast majority of these cases I heard about them hear first.(including this one.)
I cant count the times Ive thought"How could I have never heard about this?"
In the days before the 24 hour news cycle local news was local.
In the 60's and 70's we only got three TV stations all from Spokane.
If it didnt happen there or something of National Importance to make Walter Kronkite we didnt hear about it.
On this one I still go back and forth on this one.
Perhaps if there was an accident and the three girls were thrown from the boat or whatever the guy may well have panicked and split back to wherever spending the rest of his life afraid soemone would connect him to it.
Or perhaps as others have pointed out the boat is a red herring.
Maybe they never got on a boat and were abducted from somewhere else.
To me it was either some kind of accident or they attracted the attention of some predator while at the beach.

TroyinTX
12-16-2013, 01:12 PM
This case makes me think of the Starved Rock State Park (IL) murders that occurred in 1960. Three women were murdered in the park. The main difference being that the bodies were actually located in the Starved Rock Murders. Still, three women...state park....Illinois is not that far from Indiana and the three Dune's victims has ties to Illinois.

Someone was convicted of the Starved Rock Murders, but apparently many feel he wasn't the killer.

Probably not connected at all, but that is what I thought of reading this case.

dogperson
12-16-2013, 02:00 PM
This would not be the only case where false identification was made, witnesses thinking they saw the missing people somewhere. I was reading about one last week here on WS where a missing child was thought to have been seen in a store with a woman following her disappearance but now evidently this sighting has been discounted.

Cincinnati Kid
12-17-2013, 08:58 AM
I well remember the Starved Rock State Park murders. Of course, in that case, the bodies were found and evidence obtained which led to the case being solved. To those who say such incidents were not reported on a large scale back then, I remember hearing about it on the news. Life magazine even had an article complete with a photo of two of the womem that had been taken on their hike by the third woman (from a camera that had been recovered where their bodies were found). I well remember the chilling mention that authorities at first wondered if the killer might have been captured on one of the pictures still in that camera - but he wasn't.

I have always felt the best chance authorities have is to obtain information on the boat in question is from the home movie film reportedly taken by a visitor in the park that day. Despite it having been taken all of those years ago, current technology might enable them to possibly see the lettering or numbering on that craft which may enable them to identify who the owner was.

STANDREID
12-17-2013, 09:04 AM
I remember the Starved Rock case as well. It was only about 50 miles from me. I think, as I believe someone else mentioned, that we should not get too fixated on the boat angle. It may have nothing to do with the disappearance.

Dragonfyree
12-17-2013, 09:23 AM
I well remember the Starved Rock State Park murders. Of course, in that case, the bodies were found and evidence obtained which led to the case being solved. To those who say such incidents were not reported on a large scale back then, I remember hearing about it on the news. Life magazine even had an article complete with a photo of two of the womem that had been taken on their hike by the third woman (from a camera that had been recovered where their bodies were found). I well remember the chilling mention that authorities at first wondered if the killer might have been captured on one of the pictures still in that camera - but he wasn't.

I have always felt the best chance authorities have is to obtain information on the boat in question is from the home movie film reportedly taken by a visitor in the park that day. Despite it having been taken all of those years ago, current technology might enable them to possibly see the lettering or numbering on that craft which may enable them to identify who the owner was.

My point is that with exceptions, such as Starved Rock (too young at the time, but did read about it later in an Compton's Almanac), Sharon Percy's Murder, Barbara Mackle Kidnapping, Charles Whitman & Richard Speck, which were picked up by national news and national magazines, a lot of other murders and missing people from the 1960's were never given that type of publicity.

An example would be Robert Smith who on 11/12/66 went into a Mesa Arizona beauty salon and murdered 4 women and a 3 year old child. Wounding several other people. This was the same year as Speck 7/14/66 and Whitman 8/1/66, yet he's not well known, even today.

STANDREID
12-17-2013, 09:43 AM
I do remember the Smith case (although I didn't specifically recall his name) on the news but it was like a one day story. It' s one of those half remembered crimes like the ones that supposedly happened after some kook saw the movie Psycho in 1960 - actually, I think there was just one of those.

Cincinnati Kid
12-17-2013, 02:50 PM
I think, as I believe someone else mentioned, that we should not get too fixated on the boat angle. It may have nothing to do with the disappearance.

I certainly respect your and all opinions expressed here. However, without the boat or boats (as two separate craft have been mentioned), what do you really have in this case? It comes down to three women leaving their personal belongings and the car they came in behind and never being seen again.

To me, the home movie film from that day is very close to what we have now with security cameras in shopping malls, on street corners, etc. It shows what you and I would have seen had we been there that day. Reportedly, it shows the women on board with unidentified males. I just feel you should go with the lead you have been given. What else do you have in terms of physical evidence?

Dragonfyree
12-17-2013, 06:05 PM
If we don't know if it was one or two boats, how can we rely that the women were seen on them?

I think if the camera had been static and only was filming the boat, that would be a clue, but my guess is it was just scanning the beach.

I had said in an earlier post it could have been as easy as Ted Bundy at Lake Sammamish, walked up and asked for help - 3 women together would have felt safe. Maybe they were asked to party with a group - go with him to get some alcohol.

If this was some type of hit, getting them away from the beach would be a whole lot easier in some type of vehicle rather than a boat, which people might notice, especially if you're close to shore and bothering people.

Cincinnati Kid
12-18-2013, 09:48 AM
While information that I have read did indicate the person using the home movie camera was just scanning the beach, it did mention that on that film the images of the three women and one or two males could be seen. While there may be other things seen on that film, 21st Century scrutiny could be done on that portion of the film. With regards to there being two boats, it was reported that the women may have entered one boat, but they and other men were later seen on board another craft in the beach area. That seems to indicate they left on one craft, but may have switched to another elsewhere and then returned to that location. Could be an error, but both craft might be identified and checked out. As I previously noted, without the boats, what do you really have?

Whether they left the area by boat, car, etc. I am still trying to understand why the women would leave their personal belongings behind. Say what you will about the times, but that really wasn't how things were done in the 1960's nor in earlier decades as well.

kemo
12-18-2013, 11:29 AM
I'm not a oater. Could someone tell us how likely it would have been for a small craft on the south shore of Lake Michigan on a nice Summer day with good weather and presumably plenty of other boats on the water, to sink without anyone on any other craft to be aware of it?

I think it would be possible for a young man who happened to own a boat, to "disappear" without Law Enforcement making the connection that he was out in his boat when he disappeared. I know of a case where a young man known to go rock climbing, disappeared on weekend. He dropped all contact with his friends, family and girl friend. He abandoned his apartment and his processions and failed to report to work. His car was found "abandoned" near a rock climbing area but it was returned to the bank that held the note without his family being notified. The mystery was solved when his skeletonized body was found at the basepf a cliff years later.

Dragonfyree
12-18-2013, 11:42 AM
Leaving their belonging behind is another thing that makes me think it wasn't a boat, if you're going off on a boat, you'd take everything with you, as you would not know how long you'd be out or if they could drop you off back where you started.

If you're wandering away to a bathroom, or getting something from the car or going down to the water, you would leave your stuff behind.

If we're looking at this as a deliberate planned act. One of the girls could have been approached on her way to a bathroom or getting something to eat/drink - removed to a car and then the other two were approached on the beach and told their friend was sick or needed them some other way and they probably would have gone, leaving everything behind.

Cincinnati Kid
12-19-2013, 08:20 AM
On-line, I have read a newspaper story from July, 1966 which reported authorities had questioned, then released, two male suspects who claimed they had offered a boat ride to three women at the beach that day, but the women turned them down. The names of the suspects was not given in the article as the authorities had not released their names. The men allegedly stated the last time they spoke with the women, they (the women) were standing "in chin-deep water". At that time, the authorities said they felt the women may have drown and a search for their bodies was underway.

Markybug
12-29-2013, 06:28 PM
On-line, I have read a newspaper story from July, 1966 which reported authorities had questioned, then released, two male suspects who claimed they had offered a boat ride to three women at the beach that day, but the women turned them down. The names of the suspects was not given in the article as the authorities had not released their names. The men allegedly stated the last time they spoke with the women, they (the women) were standing "in chin-deep water". At that time, the authorities said they felt the women may have drown and a search for their bodies was underway.

Do you have a link for that? Interesting theory , but all 3 drowning simultaneously ?

Mark.

Cincinnati Kid
12-30-2013, 10:17 AM
I had to take another look because I found the article in a similar webpage like this one called:

www.officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com

and under the category - Three Women Missing, Indiana

The article came from a newspaper called "The Times Recorder". It is dated July 8, 1966. It is from the UPI and is datelined "Chesterton, Indiana".

I hope this is enough information for you to find it on-line. If not, you might do as I first did and just search under something like "Missing Women Indiana Dunes State Park" and this may show as one of the topics for it.

elliha
01-11-2014, 02:24 PM
Leaving their belonging behind is another thing that makes me think it wasn't a boat, if you're going off on a boat, you'd take everything with you, as you would not know how long you'd be out or if they could drop you off back where you started.

If you're wandering away to a bathroom, or getting something from the car or going down to the water, you would leave your stuff behind.

If we're looking at this as a deliberate planned act. One of the girls could have been approached on her way to a bathroom or getting something to eat/drink - removed to a car and then the other two were approached on the beach and told their friend was sick or needed them some other way and they probably would have gone, leaving everything behind.

It depends on how long a ride they were expecting. If they were just going on a quick trip they might have left things like clothes behind.

Dragonfyree
01-16-2014, 09:31 AM
It depends on how long a ride they were expecting. If they were just going on a quick trip they might have left things like clothes behind.

My thoughts were it wouldn't matter the length of the ride, because even a short ride would probably take them a mile or so away from where they started.

Was there something so unique where they were that they thought they would recognize the stretch of beach they were on, once they left it?

From reading the thread, this sounds like a huge place. Except for a couple of vacations, I've only been on small lakes and we never left our stuff alone, there was always a designated sitter because it's hard to find your location once you've walked away.

Cincinnati Kid
01-20-2014, 09:22 AM
I'm just wondering what specific items did the women leave behind? The initial information related at the start of this topic indicated "personnel belongings" were left behind. It also mentioned that the keys to Ann Miller's Buick automobile were found at the scene and belongings were found there as well. It's not clear to me if they left their purses behind either at the location they were on the beach or inside the vehicle. You would think that in taking a boat ride of any distance at all, they would have taken those with them and not left them on the beach (although maybe in the car). Is any of this indicated anywhere?

Robb2014
01-21-2014, 04:10 PM
I wandered onto this site today and was surprised at the length of this thread and how the same people have continued to frequent it, some for up to 9 years. I’ve gone back and read most of your posts and have found them insightful and interesting; and I’m touched by your continuing interest in this nearly 50 year old tragic case.

First of all, I’d like to introduce myself. My name is Robert Blough, and I’m the brother of Patty Blough. It’s hard for me to relate to you the impact that this incident has had on my family over the years. My mother, who’s 94 now, still tears up whenever my sister’s name is mentioned, which is a subject we normally try to avoid. Personally, I still was having reoccurring nightmares about my sister 30 years after her disappearance. It’s always hard losing a loved one. But when someone is taken from you with this kind of uncertainty, I believe it’s the most painful kind of loss; due to the fact that there is no closure. I’ve talked with investigators regarding this case over the years, as recently as 2005 when the book “Unbridled Rage” came out and provided new interest in the case.

While reading through this thread, I was impressed at the fact that there is very little information, clues and leads that haven’t been mentioned here. There are however, a few things I can add from my own perspective, which I’d like to share with you.

First of all, Patty and I were very close throughout our childhood. She was 4 years older than I, and I looked up to her and respected her greatly. She was a unique person, very independent and very honest. Ever since I can remember, Patty was a horse lover. Even as a small child she lived and breathed her love for horses.

During the time leading up to her disappearance a few interesting things happened. First, the winter prior to her disappearance, she mentioned to me that she had a friend who was involved in organized crime. This person I later came to find out was George Jayne, brother of Silas. From what I’ve read about George, he wasn’t actually all that bad a guy, and certainly could not be compared to the pure evil personified that went by the name of Silas Jayne.

Sometime in early May, 1966, Patty came home with her face badly bruised and swollen. She had obviously been beaten up badly by someone. She claimed that she fell off her horse while exercising him, and our family naively believed her at the time. Even at 15 I remember wondering how the particular injuries she had could have come from a fall, and thought she looked like she’d gotten the hell beaten out of her.

Around this same time, my mother found some scratch paper where Patty had doodled, “trouble, trouble, I’m in so much trouble.”

The weekend before she disappeared, Patty and her friends also went to the Dunes State Park. She had told me she was going a few days earlier and asked if I wanted to come, which I replied yes. When Saturday came, she left early in the morning without telling me. When she got back, I asked her why she hadn’t taken me, and she answered, “You wouldn’t have wanted to come. We met guys there.”

I was sick with a bad cold the week prior to sister’s disappearance, and was lying in bed with a fever, when Patty came into my room and seemed troubled. She said to me, “I’m making out a will. I want you to have Hank (her Thoroughbred) if anything ever happens to me.” I said, “Patty, you’re 19 years old, what do you need a will for?” She said, “I just want to make one up. If I will you Hank, do you promise to take care of him?” I was 15 years old at the time and had no way of getting all the way out to Scottsdale farm near rt. 53 and Roosevelt Rd. from Westchester. Plus, I wouldn’t have been able to pay the boarding fees on top of it. I told her just that. She seemed a little hurt that I wasn’t willing to take on this responsibility; but I think she understood, and she told me she appreciated my honesty.

Later on that same day she came into my room to talk to me again. This time she said, “I’m going to tell you something, but you first have to promise that under no circumstances will you ever tell anyone.” I said, “I promise. What?” She said, “No matter what happens, you can never tell anyone.” I said, “I promise, no matter what happens, I’ll never tell anyone.” She thought for a few seconds and said, “I can’t tell you. Under the circumstances, even I would tell,“ and she walked out of my room. A few days later she disappeared; and had she told me this was going to happen, of course I wouldn’t have been able to watch my parents suffer without telling them what she had said, and she knew that. I sometimes think this was her way of telling me she was going to disappear, without actually saying it.

One of the men involved with Silas Jayne matched the description of the man who was reported to have picked the girls up in the small boat, and he owned a boat that matched the suspected boats description. It was an unusual boat for Lake Michigan, a 16 foot white tri-hull runabout with blue interior. He also kept the boat less than 3 miles from the Dunes. I can’t remember the source, but I read somewhere or was told that this person put in a claim on his insurance for the boat the week following the girl’s disappearance, claiming it burned up and sunk in Lake Michigan. I still remember the man's name and he's still alive. At least as far as I know he was still alive a couple of years ago.

In 2005 when the book “Unbridled Rage” came out, I contacted the author Gene O’Shea and had a lengthy conversation with him regarding my sister’s case and her association with Silas Jayne. Gene suggested I talk with one of the ATF agents that worked on the Helen Brach case. I contacted him and we also had a lengthy conversation regarding the same matter. The agent told me that one of the cooperating witnesses in the investigations of both Helen Brach and the Schuessler-- Peterson murders had told the agent that someday he'd tell him what happened to the Dunes girls. The agent explained that this person was difficult to deal with, and he had to approach him just right, but said he would reach out to him for me. The agent never got back to me, and I’ve found out that he has since retired. I’ve tried to contact him on a couple of occasions with no success.

Anyway, this is much of what I know about my sister’s disappearance. For years I believed she was still alive, due to the conversations we had just days before that dreaded 4th of July weekend. Patty had recently gotten beaten up. She had doodled, “I’m in so much trouble, trouble, trouble.” She indeed was troubled when she came to me and offered to will me her horse, and then tried to tell me a secret, which she admitted she herself wouldn’t be able to keep were she in my shoes. I now believe, like someone else on this thread mentioned previously, that she was in bad trouble with Silas Jayne and his horse mafia, and she was planning to stage her disappearance in order to get away from these people. I believe that most likely the man in the boat was part of the murder scheme and set the girls up under the guise of helping them disappear. There were reports of a large flash on the horizon, looking north from the southern shores of Lake Michigan on the day of my sister’s disappearance. Silas Jayne’s henchmen were familiar with dynamite. Wreckage of a boat was found near one of the southern Lake Michigan pumping stations; although no boats were reported missing. The only exception being the boat owned by the man associated with Silas Jayne who put in the insurance claim but never reported the incident to the Coast Guard.

I see so many of you have a continuing interest in this case, and I hope I provided some insight for you. If there are any questions you might have, I will be checking this site from time to time, so please feel free to ask me via this thread or a PM.

Robb2014
01-21-2014, 04:17 PM
My thoughts were it wouldn't matter the length of the ride, because even a short ride would probably take them a mile or so away from where they started.

Was there something so unique where they were that they thought they would recognize the stretch of beach they were on, once they left it?

From reading the thread, this sounds like a huge place. Except for a couple of vacations, I've only been on small lakes and we never left our stuff alone, there was always a designated sitter because it's hard to find your location once you've walked away.

This is a good point, and the beach was very crowded that weekend on top of it. But even more curious... I've never seen a woman go anywhere without her purse. It would have been very easy for one of the girls to just run back to the blanket and grab the purses. One other thing, I remember my sister Patty had been hording money for several months and saving every penny she made, yet there were only a few dollars in her purse and no money or bank accounts left behind.

Cincinnati Kid
01-22-2014, 08:40 AM
Thanks to Robert for his posts which were no doubt still hard to share even after all of these years. You just wonder what it was that Patty came very close to telling him? It does make you wonder what, if anything, the other two girls, Renee Bruhl and Ann Miller, may have known going into that visit to the park that day. Just wondering if at any time Robert has seen the home movie footage that was taken that day on the beach which has been mentioned quite a bit on these posts?

Robb2014
01-22-2014, 10:03 AM
Thanks to Robert for his posts which were no doubt still hard to share even after all of these years. You just wonder what it was that Patty came very close to telling him? It does make you wonder what, if anything, the other two girls, Renee Bruhl and Ann Miller, may have known going into that visit to the park that day. Just wondering if at any time Robert has seen the home movie footage that was taken that day on the beach which has been mentioned quite a bit on these posts?

No one from my family has ever seen the footage and I can't imagine why it was never shown to us. The FBI reportedly stated "it looked like the girls in the boat". I think someone very familiar with the girls could probably have said that with more certainty.

i remember when the incident first happened, there was a big controversy over who was responsible to investigate the case. Indiana thought Illinois should do it and visa versa. The main investigator in the case ended up being a Westchester patrolman... not even a detective... a patrolman. Then the Indiana State Police had the case for a while, and ultimately the Illinois State Police. I know the FBI got involved somewhere along the line but not until much later, as they claimed there was no evidence of a federal crime having been committed. One thing in common with each department's investigation... they'd all get just so far before they dead ended into a brick wall.

Cincinnati Kid
01-22-2014, 12:03 PM
I would think the Porter County Sheriff's Office would have had initial jurisdiction in this case since the park lies with-in that county although since it is a state park, it might go to the Indiana State Police. I'm not sure how law enforcement in Illinois might be involved although maybe it has to do with which state has jurisdiction once you venture very far onto Lake Michigan? You also would think the Coast Guard would have gotten involved, too. At some point, I assume the on-going investigative agency could have called in the FBI in terms of possible kidnapping, since two states were seemingly involved or that organized crime might be mixed up in the disappearance.

Robert mentioned the report of a large flash being seen looking north from the southern shore area on the same day of the disappearance. This is the fiirst time I have heard of this. With that in mind, you start to wonder if the three women were left on one boat (perhaps unconscious, drugged, etc.) where exlosives were rigged up and set off while the killer or killers were on another boat and he/they left the scene shortly beforehand? Could something have been learned from a better examination of the wrecked boat that was found later near the pumping station?

So many questions remain after all of these years.

websurfer
01-22-2014, 01:38 PM
I wandered onto this site today and was surprised at the length of this thread and how the same people have continued to frequent it, some for up to 9 years. I’ve gone back and read most of your posts and have found them insightful and interesting; and I’m touched by your continuing interest in this nearly 50 year old tragic case.

First of all, I’d like to introduce myself. My name is Robert Blough, and I’m the brother of Patty Blough. It’s hard for me to relate to you the impact that this incident has had on my family over the years. My mother, who’s 94 now, still tears up whenever my sister’s name is mentioned, which is a subject we normally try to avoid. Personally, I still was having reoccurring nightmares about my sister 30 years after her disappearance. It’s always hard losing a loved one. But when someone is taken from you with this kind of uncertainty, I believe it’s the most painful kind of loss; due to the fact that there is no closure. I’ve talked with investigators regarding this case over the years, as recently as 2005 when the book “Unbridled Rage” came out and provided new interest in the case.

While reading through this thread, I was impressed at the fact that there is very little information, clues and leads that haven’t been mentioned here. There are however, a few things I can add from my own perspective, which I’d like to share with you.

First of all, Patty and I were very close throughout our childhood. She was 4 years older than I, and I looked up to her and respected her greatly. She was a unique person, very independent and very honest. Ever since I can remember, Patty was a horse lover. Even as a small child she lived and breathed her love for horses.

During the time leading up to her disappearance a few interesting things happened. First, the winter prior to her disappearance, she mentioned to me that she had a friend who was involved in organized crime. This person I later came to find out was George Jayne, brother of Silas. From what I’ve read about George, he wasn’t actually all that bad a guy, and certainly could not be compared to the pure evil personified that went by the name of Silas Jayne.

Sometime in early May, 1966, Patty came home with her face badly bruised and swollen. She had obviously been beaten up badly by someone. She claimed that she fell off her horse while exercising him, and our family naively believed her at the time. Even at 15 I remember wondering how the particular injuries she had could have come from a fall, and thought she looked like she’d gotten the hell beaten out of her.

Around this same time, my mother found some scratch paper where Patty had doodled, “trouble, trouble, I’m in so much trouble.”

The weekend before she disappeared, Patty and her friends also went to the Dunes State Park. She had told me she was going a few days earlier and asked if I wanted to come, which I replied yes. When Saturday came, she left early in the morning without telling me. When she got back, I asked her why she hadn’t taken me, and she answered, “You wouldn’t have wanted to come. We met guys there.”

I was sick with a bad cold the week prior to sister’s disappearance, and was lying in bed with a fever, when Patty came into my room and seemed troubled. She said to me, “I’m making out a will. I want you to have Hank (her Thoroughbred) if anything ever happens to me.” I said, “Patty, you’re 19 years old, what do you need a will for?” She said, “I just want to make one up. If I will you Hank, do you promise to take care of him?” I was 15 years old at the time and had no way of getting all the way out to Scottsdale farm near rt. 53 and Roosevelt Rd. from Westchester. Plus, I wouldn’t have been able to pay the boarding fees on top of it. I told her just that. She seemed a little hurt that I wasn’t willing to take on this responsibility; but I think she understood, and she told me she appreciated my honesty.

Later on that same day she came into my room to talk to me again. This time she said, “I’m going to tell you something, but you first have to promise that under no circumstances will you ever tell anyone.” I said, “I promise. What?” She said, “No matter what happens, you can never tell anyone.” I said, “I promise, no matter what happens, I’ll never tell anyone.” She thought for a few seconds and said, “I can’t tell you. Under the circumstances, even I would tell,“ and she walked out of my room. A few days later she disappeared; and had she told me this was going to happen, of course I wouldn’t have been able to watch my parents suffer without telling them what she had said, and she knew that. I sometimes think this was her way of telling me she was going to disappear, without actually saying it.

One of the men involved with Silas Jayne matched the description of the man who was reported to have picked the girls up in the small boat, and he owned a boat that matched the suspected boats description. It was an unusual boat for Lake Michigan, a 16 foot white tri-hull runabout with blue interior. He also kept the boat less than 3 miles from the Dunes. I can’t remember the source, but I read somewhere or was told that this person put in a claim on his insurance for the boat the week following the girl’s disappearance, claiming it burned up and sunk in Lake Michigan. I still remember the man's name and he's still alive. At least as far as I know he was still alive a couple of years ago.

In 2005 when the book “Unbridled Rage” came out, I contacted the author Gene O’Shea and had a lengthy conversation with him regarding my sister’s case and her association with Silas Jayne. Gene suggested I talk with one of the ATF agents that worked on the Helen Brach case. I contacted him and we also had a lengthy conversation regarding the same matter. The agent told me that one of the cooperating witnesses in the investigations of both Helen Brach and the Schuessler-- Peterson murders had told the agent that someday he'd tell him what happened to the Dunes girls. The agent explained that this person was difficult to deal with, and he had to approach him just right, but said he would reach out to him for me. The agent never got back to me, and I’ve found out that he has since retired. I’ve tried to contact him on a couple of occasions with no success.

Anyway, this is much of what I know about my sister’s disappearance. For years I believed she was still alive, due to the conversations we had just days before that dreaded 4th of July weekend. Patty had recently gotten beaten up. She had doodled, “I’m in so much trouble, trouble, trouble.” She indeed was troubled when she came to me and offered to will me her horse, and then tried to tell me a secret, which she admitted she herself wouldn’t be able to keep were she in my shoes. I now believe, like someone else on this thread mentioned previously, that she was in bad trouble with Silas Jayne and his horse mafia, and she was planning to stage her disappearance in order to get away from these people. I believe that most likely the man in the boat was part of the murder scheme and set the girls up under the guise of helping them disappear. There were reports of a large flash on the horizon, looking north from the southern shores of Lake Michigan on the day of my sister’s disappearance. Silas Jayne’s henchmen were familiar with dynamite. Wreckage of a boat was found near one of the southern Lake Michigan pumping stations; although no boats were reported missing. The only exception being the boat owned by the man associated with Silas Jayne who put in the insurance claim but never reported the incident to the Coast Guard.

I see so many of you have a continuing interest in this case, and I hope I provided some insight for you. If there are any questions you might have, I will be checking this site from time to time, so please feel free to ask me via this thread or a PM.


Hello Mr.Blough,

It is always a very welcome pleasure when someone close to a case[ victim ] comments on the discussions we are having here about cases.
As usual my thoughts are was someone stalking any one of them? Did someone seem creepy and follow them?
I do not think people knew what a stalker was until recently?
I mean I may be wrong?
My first thought would be an ex of one of them?
A jealous person for one reason or another?
Always look close, as some clues seem to be there but not realized until later.
I have seen many stories on LMN about people who have people who pretend to like somebody and turn out to not like them?
I do hope someday you and your family find closure.
I have been reading about many cases here on Websleuths.Old ones and new ones.
It is very hard to understand how more than one girl follows along willingly? Making me wonder if some well-known culprit was in the area at that time?
Is there a way you can check to see what inmates may have been recenly let out at the time they went there?
Or perhaps a criminal got to work on a ship? A boat?
And had access to the boat to do this?
Never give up....:loveyou:
justice will come someday just put a few puzzle pieces together:twocents:
again, I would look into escaped or recent parolees or something like that?
A halfway house near there?
Something along those lines.:seeya:


Also?
If your sister was fearful I find it odd that she would be with other girls like that?
I know from the way you describe her, she would want to protect her friends and not hang with them if they would also be harmed right?

So I think whatever happened was a complete surprise.
I looked up the Silas guy and he was a Horse person, so that is how she met him in an innocent way.
Then not knowing it was dragged into a situation maybe overheard something?
and that was what happened maybe?
She may have been with her horse and heard something by accident?

Robb2014
01-22-2014, 04:14 PM
Robert mentioned the report of a large flash being seen looking north from the southern shore area on the same day of the disappearance. This is the fiirst time I have heard of this. With that in mind, you start to wonder if the three women were left on one boat (perhaps unconscious, drugged, etc.) where exlosives were rigged up and set off while the killer or killers were on another boat and he/they left the scene shortly beforehand? Could something have been learned from a better examination of the wrecked boat that was found later near the pumping station?So many questions remain after all of these years.

I think this is the most logical conclusion when looking at all the pieces of the puzzle. The big question is who did it and why. Again, the most logical culprit is Silas Jayne and his crew, especially since a cooperating witness told the ATF agent investigating two other of Jaynes murders that "someday" he would tell him what happened to the Dunes Girls.

Robb2014
01-22-2014, 04:21 PM
Hello Mr.Blough, As usual my thoughts are was someone stalking any one of them? Did someone seem creepy and follow them?
I do not think people knew what a stalker was until recently?
I mean I may be wrong?
My first thought would be an ex of one of them?
A jealous person for one reason or another?
Always look close, as some clues seem to be there but not realized until later.
I have seen many stories on LMN about people who have people who pretend to like somebody and turn out to not like them?
I do hope someday you and your family find closure.
I have been reading about many cases here on Websleuths.Old ones and new ones.
It is very hard to understand how more than one girl follows along willingly? Making me wonder if some well-known culprit was in the area at that time?
Is there a way you can check to see what inmates may have been recenly let out at the time they went there?
Or perhaps a criminal got to work on a ship? A boat?
And had access to the boat to do this?
Never give up....:loveyou:
justice will come someday just put a few puzzle pieces together:twocents:
again, I would look into escaped or recent parolees or something like that?
A halfway house near there?
Something along those lines.:seeya:


Also?
If your sister was fearful I find it odd that she would be with other girls like that?
I know from the way you describe her, she would want to protect her friends and not hang with them if they would also be harmed right?

So I think whatever happened was a complete surprise.
I looked up the Silas guy and he was a Horse person, so that is how she met him in an innocent way.
Then not knowing it was dragged into a situation maybe overheard something?
and that was what happened maybe?
She may have been with her horse and heard something by accident?

There was much speculation along these lines. Richard Speck was even questioned sometime after he was arrested. However, the majority of circumstantial evidence points to Silas Jayne.

Kimster
01-23-2014, 08:49 PM
Robb2014 is now verified. Welcome Robb2014! I wish we had met under better circumstances. I'm really glad you found us. If we can help you with anything, please let us know. :hug:

ontheclock
01-23-2014, 09:19 PM
Wow, Robb2014, I'm glad you found your way to Websleuths. This case has always intrigued me. I live near the Dunes and visit every summer. Getting your input is fantastic after all the years that have passed (with so many unanswered questions). Welcome and thanks for posting.

I'm very sorry about what happened to your sister.

Robb2014
01-23-2014, 11:32 PM
Thank you both. It's been interesting for me to read all your posts. Not much has escaped you all. It's frustrating to think that there are probably still people living that have the answer to what happened that day. They say three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead... it's hard to believe nothing's leaked out about this case in close to 50 years.

Cincinnati Kid
01-24-2014, 09:37 AM
It continues to intrigue me that a person (or persons) would use the setting of Indiana Dunes State Park on a crowded holiday weekend to lure these three women away to their apparent fate. Those circumstances provided witnesses, a reported home move clip showing the girls, etc. rather than having taken place in a more secluded setting. Of course, to understand that choice, you have to think like predator or killer.

Someone may mention that Ted Bundy used a similar M.O. with some of his victims (two in one day at the same park), but that did produce some witnesses and, as I recall, information that later led to his identity.

dogperson
01-24-2014, 01:25 PM
It continues to intrigue me that a person (or persons) would use the setting of Indiana Dunes State Park on a crowded holiday weekend to lure these three women away to their apparent fate. Those circumstances provided witnesses, a reported home move clip showing the girls, etc. rather than having taken place in a more secluded setting. Of course, to understand that choice, you have to think like predator or killer.

Someone may mention that Ted Bundy used a similar M.O. with some of his victims (two in one day at the same park), but that did produce some witnesses and, as I recall, information that later led to his identity.

You're right about Bundy. That's how they got a description of him and that he had called himself "Ted". I think it was by the girl he tried to pick up but who didn't go with him, but I could be wrong about that.

deca
01-24-2014, 03:39 PM
It also seems that they would try to get one of the women away on her own, rather than risk taking three. But, I know it does happen.

MaryLiz
01-24-2014, 09:57 PM
I wandered onto this site today and was surprised at the length of this thread and how the same people have continued to frequent it, some for up to 9 years. I’ve gone back and read most of your posts and have found them insightful and interesting; and I’m touched by your continuing interest in this nearly 50 year old tragic case.

First of all, I’d like to introduce myself. My name is Robert Blough, and I’m the brother of Patty Blough. It’s hard for me to relate to you the impact that this incident has had on my family over the years. My mother, who’s 94 now, still tears up whenever my sister’s name is mentioned, which is a subject we normally try to avoid. Personally, I still was having reoccurring nightmares about my sister 30 years after her disappearance. It’s always hard losing a loved one. But when someone is taken from you with this kind of uncertainty, I believe it’s the most painful kind of loss; due to the fact that there is no closure. I’ve talked with investigators regarding this case over the years, as recently as 2005 when the book “Unbridled Rage” came out and provided new interest in the case.

While reading through this thread, I was impressed at the fact that there is very little information, clues and leads that haven’t been mentioned here. There are however, a few things I can add from my own perspective, which I’d like to share with you.

First of all, Patty and I were very close throughout our childhood. She was 4 years older than I, and I looked up to her and respected her greatly. She was a unique person, very independent and very honest. Ever since I can remember, Patty was a horse lover. Even as a small child she lived and breathed her love for horses.

During the time leading up to her disappearance a few interesting things happened. First, the winter prior to her disappearance, she mentioned to me that she had a friend who was involved in organized crime. This person I later came to find out was George Jayne, brother of Silas. From what I’ve read about George, he wasn’t actually all that bad a guy, and certainly could not be compared to the pure evil personified that went by the name of Silas Jayne.

Sometime in early May, 1966, Patty came home with her face badly bruised and swollen. She had obviously been beaten up badly by someone. She claimed that she fell off her horse while exercising him, and our family naively believed her at the time. Even at 15 I remember wondering how the particular injuries she had could have come from a fall, and thought she looked like she’d gotten the hell beaten out of her.

Around this same time, my mother found some scratch paper where Patty had doodled, “trouble, trouble, I’m in so much trouble.”

The weekend before she disappeared, Patty and her friends also went to the Dunes State Park. She had told me she was going a few days earlier and asked if I wanted to come, which I replied yes. When Saturday came, she left early in the morning without telling me. When she got back, I asked her why she hadn’t taken me, and she answered, “You wouldn’t have wanted to come. We met guys there.”

I was sick with a bad cold the week prior to sister’s disappearance, and was lying in bed with a fever, when Patty came into my room and seemed troubled. She said to me, “I’m making out a will. I want you to have Hank (her Thoroughbred) if anything ever happens to me.” I said, “Patty, you’re 19 years old, what do you need a will for?” She said, “I just want to make one up. If I will you Hank, do you promise to take care of him?” I was 15 years old at the time and had no way of getting all the way out to Scottsdale farm near rt. 53 and Roosevelt Rd. from Westchester. Plus, I wouldn’t have been able to pay the boarding fees on top of it. I told her just that. She seemed a little hurt that I wasn’t willing to take on this responsibility; but I think she understood, and she told me she appreciated my honesty.

Later on that same day she came into my room to talk to me again. This time she said, “I’m going to tell you something, but you first have to promise that under no circumstances will you ever tell anyone.” I said, “I promise. What?” She said, “No matter what happens, you can never tell anyone.” I said, “I promise, no matter what happens, I’ll never tell anyone.” She thought for a few seconds and said, “I can’t tell you. Under the circumstances, even I would tell,“ and she walked out of my room. A few days later she disappeared; and had she told me this was going to happen, of course I wouldn’t have been able to watch my parents suffer without telling them what she had said, and she knew that. I sometimes think this was her way of telling me she was going to disappear, without actually saying it.

One of the men involved with Silas Jayne matched the description of the man who was reported to have picked the girls up in the small boat, and he owned a boat that matched the suspected boats description. It was an unusual boat for Lake Michigan, a 16 foot white tri-hull runabout with blue interior. He also kept the boat less than 3 miles from the Dunes. I can’t remember the source, but I read somewhere or was told that this person put in a claim on his insurance for the boat the week following the girl’s disappearance, claiming it burned up and sunk in Lake Michigan. I still remember the man's name and he's still alive. At least as far as I know he was still alive a couple of years ago.

In 2005 when the book “Unbridled Rage” came out, I contacted the author Gene O’Shea and had a lengthy conversation with him regarding my sister’s case and her association with Silas Jayne. Gene suggested I talk with one of the ATF agents that worked on the Helen Brach case. I contacted him and we also had a lengthy conversation regarding the same matter. The agent told me that one of the cooperating witnesses in the investigations of both Helen Brach and the Schuessler-- Peterson murders had told the agent that someday he'd tell him what happened to the Dunes girls. The agent explained that this person was difficult to deal with, and he had to approach him just right, but said he would reach out to him for me. The agent never got back to me, and I’ve found out that he has since retired. I’ve tried to contact him on a couple of occasions with no success.

Anyway, this is much of what I know about my sister’s disappearance. For years I believed she was still alive, due to the conversations we had just days before that dreaded 4th of July weekend. Patty had recently gotten beaten up. She had doodled, “I’m in so much trouble, trouble, trouble.” She indeed was troubled when she came to me and offered to will me her horse, and then tried to tell me a secret, which she admitted she herself wouldn’t be able to keep were she in my shoes. I now believe, like someone else on this thread mentioned previously, that she was in bad trouble with Silas Jayne and his horse mafia, and she was planning to stage her disappearance in order to get away from these people. I believe that most likely the man in the boat was part of the murder scheme and set the girls up under the guise of helping them disappear. There were reports of a large flash on the horizon, looking north from the southern shores of Lake Michigan on the day of my sister’s disappearance. Silas Jayne’s henchmen were familiar with dynamite. Wreckage of a boat was found near one of the southern Lake Michigan pumping stations; although no boats were reported missing. The only exception being the boat owned by the man associated with Silas Jayne who put in the insurance claim but never reported the incident to the Coast Guard.

I see so many of you have a continuing interest in this case, and I hope I provided some insight for you. If there are any questions you might have, I will be checking this site from time to time, so please feel free to ask me via this thread or a PM.

Robb2014, I'm so glad you registered on WS and shared your memories of your sister Patty, and your thoughts about the disappearance of the three women. I have been following this for many years. First, let me tell you how sorry I am that your family has had to go through the pain of your sister's disappearance. I agree that it is probably the worst kind of tragedy for a family to endure in that there is no closure.

I haven't posted on here for a long time, but I am one of the people who has long believed that Silas Jayne and the Horse Mafia was responsible for the disappearance of your sister Patty, along with Renee Bruhl and Ann Miller. I've thought about other theories but always come back to Jayne. I have always thought that the three men they were allegedly seen with was somehow set up by Jayne. And now that you say she was there the weekend before her disappearance and met some guys that weekend, it only deepens my belief that it was a set-up by Jayne and the previous weekend was just a ruse to maybe get the girls to feel comfortable with the guys so they would go back to the Dunes again on the weekend they disappeared.

I've often wondered if Silas Jayne set them up because Patty or one of the other girls had information about the car bombing that killed Cheryl Rude the previous summer of 1965. IIRC, that car bomb was meant for George Jayne and ended up killing Cheryl instead.

Once again, I'm sorry you and your family have had to go through all you've been through for the past 47 1/2 years. Reading your post has only convinced me further that Silas Jayne was somehow involved. I sure hope you can still get some answers about this.

Robb2014
01-25-2014, 01:04 AM
It also seems that they would try to get one of the women away on her own, rather than risk taking three. But, I know it does happen.

To me, the case never had the feel of an abduction... seemed like more of a hit. Silas Jayne wasn't a thrill killer, but a ruthless, unconscionable, sociopath who would kill someone for stealing his parking space, but not necessarily for sport.

Richard
01-25-2014, 10:18 PM
Robb2014,

Welcome to Websleuths and to this forum. I am very sorry for your family's loss and the sorrow which you have suffered over these many years.

You have provided some pertinent and interesting insight and details about your sister's disappearance.

Still some unresolved descrepancies and conflicting clues. There are a number of possible scenarios, but it sounds - from what you say - that Patty and perhaps the others were indeed in some sort of trouble and hoping to get out of it.

I believe that this case suffered from the start by legal jurisdiction problems which caused it to be handled/bungled by a series of agencies, each eager to pass it off to the next one.

With the fairly solid lead of the girls leaving their possessions on the beach and boarding a tri-hull runabout from the water - the info about an explosion, bits of wreckage washing ashore, and the guy reporting an insurance claim on his boat would have seemed very strongly related and wothy of investigation.

Do you know if there is any documentation regarding the Insurance Claim for the missing/ sunk boat? How does the guy claim that his boat sunk, but that he survived?

Cincinnati Kid
01-26-2014, 10:06 AM
There seems to be some question if the area reported as where the women may be buried was ever checked? There is an indication on these posts that the sheriff who was going to do that lost his life in a farming accident and the search did not take place. However, I recall when I read about this case in a 1980's detective magazine that it later was searched and nothing was found. Which is correct? Also, with what appears to be the long-reaching hands of Silas Jayne, just how much investigation was done to determine if the mishap that killed that sheriff was truly an accident?

ontheclock
02-19-2014, 03:33 AM
Thank you both. It's been interesting for me to read all your posts. Not much has escaped you all. It's frustrating to think that there are probably still people living that have the answer to what happened that day. They say three people can keep a secret if two of them are dead... it's hard to believe nothing's leaked out about this case in close to 50 years.

Bumping for the three young ladies that disappeared from the Dunes.

kline
03-10-2014, 04:13 AM
The only problem I keep coming back to as far as this being some kind of organized 'hit' is the venue.
I have a hard time wrapping my mind around if you wanted to make these three girls disappear how on earth would you land on doing it on a crowded beach in broad daylight?
What exactly, would be your thought process?
"Hmmm....dozens of witnessess very likely armed with cameras,no cover coming or going.....so far so good."
"And best of all it goes without saying that NO ONE is likely to pay the slightest attention to three exceptionally attractive young woman out alone together sunbathing on the beach!"
"Time to act boys! We may never get another chance like this!"
I mean really?

Richard
03-10-2014, 10:05 AM
The only problem I keep coming back to as far as this being some kind of organized 'hit' is the venue.
I have a hard time wrapping my mind around if you wanted to make these three girls disappear how on earth would you land on doing it on a crowded beach in broad daylight?
What exactly, would be your thought process?... I mean really?

I tend to agree with you. If a person wanted to assassinate a particular witness, killing two others would not make any sense at all.

And I think that may be the key here. The fact that things do not make any sense (as to it being a hit) makes me think that other more believable/viable clues toward the hit scenario might be only coincidental facts. That is, they might actually be true, but not connected with the chain of events leading to the three girls disappearance.

To my mind, the answer to this might lie in a chance meeting with an evil perpetrator rather than a targeted hit. The factors that you mention tend to make it more likely that some dirtbag with a boat might have enticed them on board for a ride and then either killed them or was in a tragic accident with them out on the water.

A 16 foot tri-hull runabout was a speed boat with a powerful engine of 75 Horsepower or greater. It was fueled with gasoline which is highly combustable. The combination of speed and combustable fuel seems a more imminent danger than a professional hit man making his move on a crowded beach.

Cincinnati Kid
03-10-2014, 10:15 AM
Kline's thoughts are basically mine, too. Wouldn't there have been better opportunities if the intent was to eliminate the three women? As it turned out, using a beach with a holiday weekend crowd on hand resulted in what appears to be numerous witnesses and even a film of what may have been the beginning of their abduction. It seems as though experienced killers would have used other methods although such individuals have perhaps done stranger things.

Robb2014
03-10-2014, 02:11 PM
Robb2014, I'm so glad you registered on WS and shared your memories of your sister Patty, and your thoughts about the disappearance of the three women. I have been following this for many years. First, let me tell you how sorry I am that your family has had to go through the pain of your sister's disappearance. I agree that it is probably the worst kind of tragedy for a family to endure in that there is no closure.

I haven't posted on here for a long time, but I am one of the people who has long believed that Silas Jayne and the Horse Mafia was responsible for the disappearance of your sister Patty, along with Renee Bruhl and Ann Miller. I've thought about other theories but always come back to Jayne. I have always thought that the three men they were allegedly seen with was somehow set up by Jayne. And now that you say she was there the weekend before her disappearance and met some guys that weekend, it only deepens my belief that it was a set-up by Jayne and the previous weekend was just a ruse to maybe get the girls to feel comfortable with the guys so they would go back to the Dunes again on the weekend they disappeared.

I've often wondered if Silas Jayne set them up because Patty or one of the other girls had information about the car bombing that killed Cheryl Rude the previous summer of 1965. IIRC, that car bomb was meant for George Jayne and ended up killing Cheryl instead.

Once again, I'm sorry you and your family have had to go through all you've been through for the past 47 1/2 years. Reading your post has only convinced me further that Silas Jayne was somehow involved. I sure hope you can still get some answers about this.

Hi Mary Liz, I haven't been on here for a while either and thought I'd check in since I had a few minutes today. The Cheryl Rude connection certainly is worth consideration and it's one of the top theories I think has been made regarding motive. The only thought I have on this is, I remember my sister telling me about her friendship with George Jayne, and how someone had tried killing him by putting a bomb in his car. I think had she witnessed the planting of the bomb she wouldn't have talked this openly about the incident... just my gut feelings on that, but the theory certainly does make sense.

Robb2014
03-10-2014, 02:24 PM
Robb2014,
Do you know if there is any documentation regarding the Insurance Claim for the missing/ sunk boat? How does the guy claim that his boat sunk, but that he survived?

I don't know much about this except I remember hearing or reading that the owner of the boat put in a claim for a total loss shortly after the weekend of the disappearances. Again, this is an example of the mentality of that horse mafia group. Putting in a claim on this boat if it had been involved in the murders of 3 girls would have been a really stupid thing to do, but these guys had a habit of doing stupid things and still not getting caught. I think this is mostly due to the fear Silas Jayne instilled in everyone who knew him. Each one of the disappearances associated with Silas Jayne hit a dead end and remained that way until he died, then all of a sudden people started talking... the Scheussler Peterson case, Helen Brach, Cheryl Rude... the only exception being the 3 dunes girls. There was an initial glimmer of hope back in the 90s that this case might be solved, but that glimmer faded after a few years passed and nothing surfaced.

Robb2014
03-10-2014, 02:55 PM
There seems to be some question if the area reported as where the women may be buried was ever checked? There is an indication on these posts that the sheriff who was going to do that lost his life in a farming accident and the search did not take place. However, I recall when I read about this case in a 1980's detective magazine that it later was searched and nothing was found. Which is correct? Also, with what appears to be the long-reaching hands of Silas Jayne, just how much investigation was done to determine if the mishap that killed that sheriff was truly an accident?

Good question. It seems a lot of strange coincidences surrounded Silas Jayne. Here's another one... 9 years before my sister and her friends disappearances, the two Grimes sisters' dead bodies were found on the side of the road just a mile or so from the stables of Kenny Hanson, the convicted murderer of the Scheussler Peterson boys and close associate of Silas Jayne.

kline
03-11-2014, 07:29 AM
Good question. It seems a lot of strange coincidences surrounded Silas Jayne. Here's another one... 9 years before my sister and her friends disappearances, the two Grimes sisters' dead bodies were found on the side of the road just a mile or so from the stables of Kenny Hanson, the convicted murderer of the Scheussler Peterson boys and close associate of Silas Jayne.
You know Im glad you mentioned those two crimes ,Kenny Hanson's murder of the boys and the Grimes sisters which many feel is connected.
My premise was putting myself in the head space of the perpretater and examining it from a 'rational' point of view if it were me.
However those two crimes clearly illustrate,if indeed they are connected that people in that circle were quite capable of acting from a decidely impulsive and irrational place.
Maybe it was the same at the Dunes and they were just incredibly lucky.
I know its been brought up before but I wish there were someway we could get ahold of that film(if it still exists) the things that can be done with digital enhancement these days could make it a complete game changer.

MaryLiz
03-11-2014, 10:19 PM
I don't know much about this except I remember hearing or reading that the owner of the boat put in a claim for a total loss shortly after the weekend of the disappearances. Again, this is an example of the mentality of that horse mafia group. Putting in a claim on this boat if it had been involved in the murders of 3 girls would have been a really stupid thing to do, but these guys had a habit of doing stupid things and still not getting caught. I think this is mostly due to the fear Silas Jayne instilled in everyone who knew him. Each one of the disappearances associated with Silas Jayne hit a dead end and remained that way until he died, then all of a sudden people started talking... the Scheussler Peterson case, Helen Brach, Cheryl Rude... the only exception being the 3 dunes girls. There was an initial glimmer of hope back in the 90s that this case might be solved, but that glimmer faded after a few years passed and nothing surfaced.

BBM

I can understand the hesitation to believe that with the Dunes being so crowded that weekend, it wouldn't seem credible to suspect a hit per se in such an open area. But if it was set up in such a way for the girls to meet some guys and take a ride on their boat, it wouldn't have looked out of the ordinary at all. I can also understand that if Patty Blough witnessed something she shouldn't have, it would not make sense to cause the disappearance of three women instead of just one. But I think I remember reading that Renee Bruhl and Ann Miller also rode at the Jayne stables, so it's possible they could have witnessed some goings-on at the stables and could have been involved in some trouble as well. From what I've read about Silas Jayne, I agree with Robb's statement above that he and his goons did a lot of stupid things with regards to their involvement in other crimes, and got away with so much for years.

Dragonfyree
04-03-2014, 04:01 PM
I believe it could be a hit, but I don't believe they went on a boat. As I had stated in a previous posting, leaving all their stuff behind doesn't make sense as they wouldn't know if the boat could get them back to where they started. Plus you could never be sure if they would all get on the boat. Suppose one of them was afraid of boats, or deep water or got seasick. I think it would be too risky.

My belief is that it's more likely they grabbed one of the girls who had left the other two - to maybe go to the restroom or get something to eat. Someone came to the other two girls to tell them their friend was sick and needed them right away. They would probably jump and leave without taking anything.

Eyewitness testimony is not very reliable and I'm not sure anyone who didn't know the girls could say that they got on a boat. Just looking at the pictures of the three girls, they all resemble each other and probably looked like thousands of other girls who were getting on and off boats that weekend.

I think it's a good guess that anyone who had an association of any kind with Silas Jayne and ended up missing or dead could look back to him as the source.

STANDREID
04-03-2014, 04:30 PM
I believe it could be a hit, but I don't believe they went on a boat. As I had stated in a previous posting, leaving all their stuff behind doesn't make sense as they wouldn't know if the boat could get them back to where they started. Plus you could never be sure if they would all get on the boat. Suppose one of them was afraid of boats, or deep water or got seasick. I think it would be too risky.

My belief is that it's more likely they grabbed one of the girls who had left the other two - to maybe go to the restroom or get something to eat. Someone came to the other two girls to tell them their friend was sick and needed them right away. They would probably jump and leave without taking anything.

Eyewitness testimony is not very reliable and I'm not sure anyone who didn't know the girls could say that they got on a boat. Just looking at the pictures of the three girls, they all resemble each other and probably looked like thousands of other girls who were getting on and off boats that weekend.

I think it's a good guess that anyone who had an association of any kind with Silas Jayne and ended up missing or dead could look back to him as the source.

I think your theory makes the most sense with the possible exception of the last sentence. My guess would be that it was a serial killer or a serial killing team and essentially random. If it was Jayne, then he was really keeping close ties with this party.

Dragonfyree
04-03-2014, 05:56 PM
I think your theory makes the most sense with the possible exception of the last sentence. My guess would be that it was a serial killer or a serial killing team and essentially random. If it was Jayne, then he was really keeping close ties with this party.

I also believe it could be a serial killer, but I think there would have been 2 guys instead of just one.

I think the reason people like Jayne as a suspect is because so many people around him were murdered.

They would have probably only been watching one of the girls. It was a holiday weekend, it could be Jayne's people just stumbled across them at the beach, just because you're a murderer and thug doesn't mean you don't go out and have fun. They decided this might be their best shot. Doing something in plain sight of thousands of people does work sometimes.

Joanie
04-08-2014, 03:05 AM
This has been a fascinating read, particularly with Robb 2014's input.
What if the girls knew that they were in trouble because they saw something, and they arranged to 'disappear', to start life over? Perhaps they used a shady character that they knew from the stables. They made arrangements to meet the man on the small boat, leaving their things behind, and perhaps were transported elsewhere back onto the shore, where they escaped? But something may have gone wrong somewhere.... after all, shady characters can be bought off too.
That would explain any fore knowledge of being in trouble and wanting to 'make a will', and a secret. It would explain the unlikely scenario of them leaving their things and getting onto a small boat, but with no bodies ever found.
If their problems, and their planned escape, ended in abduction and murder, they could have been killed anywhere, not just on the lake.
Less probably is that they did, indeed, move on to new lives, but it would be terrible to think that they callously left their families in limbo forever after.

Cincinnati Kid
04-10-2014, 01:07 PM
Does the Indiana State Police have jurisdiction in this case? I thought since the disappearance took place at a state park, it might be considered in their jurisdiction. Where might be any evidence (such as the home movie taken on the beach the day they were last seen) still be kept?

Richard
04-11-2014, 10:31 PM
Does the Indiana State Police have jurisdiction in this case? I thought since the disappearance took place at a state park, it might be considered in their jurisdiction. Where might be any evidence (such as the home movie taken on the beach the day they were last seen) still be kept?

I believe that there were several different agencies involved and that there were overlapping jurisdictions. A state park might come under Natural Resources police, or State Police. The County Sheriff or County Police might have jurisdiction. The fact that there were some boats seen in the area, and the possibility that the girls went on Lake Michigan, might mean Illinois or Michigan or even the US Coast Guard might have some interest in the case as well.

The FBI could also have a stake in it depending on state lines, or other issues which would make it of federal interest.

It would be nice to know where the evidence is kept and whether or not that movie film is still available to investigators.

Cincinnati Kid
04-11-2014, 11:11 PM
While having all of those various county, state and federal offices might look good from a numbers standpoint, there are obvious problems, too. Just who is running the operation - especially now after almost 48 years? It still poses the question again. Which one is keeping the gathered evidence - particularly the home movie film?

MaryLiz
04-21-2014, 07:08 PM
I agree that's it easy to think Jayne was involved since there was a connection of sorts, and like Dragonfyree said, so many people around him were murdered. Sometimes, I'm not completely sold on Jayne myself. It just seems to be the most plausible explanation to me. But after reading the first post by Robb2014, I really think that whatever happened to the girls, the wheels were set in motion when they went to the Dunes the previous weekend before they disappeared. Whoever they met seems to have gained their trust and convinced them to come back. Not saying it was those guys for sure, but they could have been involved with whoever was responsible for the girls' disappearance. JMO.