Remains found in W. Montana - Could this be Dylan?

[SauerKraut]

I have never started a thread before, I hope some of you Sleuthers follow this because some of the other threads were getting mixed up and topics were overlapping.

Anyway - I am shocked that they found these remains, maybe not shocked by very very saddened by this. I read somewhere that they were found at a campground and they were led to this by things found in the car and from Shasta. I have been thinking about this for the last hour. Shasta, it's hard to say if she could tell LE where exactly to go but I did a search on campgrounds in Western Montana and this is what I concluded: Glacier National Park is in Western Montana as are other national parks and campgrounds. It was earlier stated the key tags were found in a National Park in Wyoming. Plus, apparently, this guy was camping w/ the kids. They probably found in the car a park pass! I just realized how we have one, my husband and I, and we keep it over the visor in our car for when we go to Yosemite. They should be able to see if he has one and it will tell him his travels as of late. It lets you get into National and some state parks and it's great if you do a lot of camping or traveling like that.

I bet they also found a campground "tag," like the one you hang on your mirror that shows the campground and site number in the glove box. Maybe he even had pictures of scenery. But something led them VERY QUICKLY to that scene!!! And I know Shasta didn't drive anywhere with the police!!!

And this makes me think, this guy is a traveler. He travels on the interstates to make quick getaways to far away places, especially as of late it seems. He was found at the Dennys right off I90! He was camping next door to the Groenes, maybe for days, spotted Dylan or Shade outside and hung out there and stalked them. Maybe he even wandered over there. I am still unsure about him carrying out these killings alone, it's an awful lot of work and he's a small guy. But he may have had an accomplice that later he decided to ditch or maybe even killed him.

With the police saying evidence from the car pointed them there, I would be this is what they found.

[Marisa714]

You made some really good points, I agree that they probably found a tag or whatever to get into the park. Poor Shasta, she already lost so many loved ones, I was hoping at least Dylon would be alive, poor Dylon, this is sooo sad! I'm angry that guy was out in the first place, grrr!

[Cowgirl]

SauerKraut,

Yep, they probably did find park passes or maps or something in the Jeep to tell them where he has been. From his sick blog and his diagnosis as a schizoid sexual sadist and then considering the crime scene, they may also have found a gun or two and that may be how he took advantage of the murder victims because they surely were larger than he appears at 150 pounds on a tall frame. He could have held a gun on one and made that person tie up the others. The fact that the murders were bludgeonings made me think at first that the perp had no firearm, but he may have enjoyed killing them that way if it was this guy. And guns make noise. As angry as he seemed in his blog posts, I have no doubt that he is capable of it. If anyone thinks that maybe he just got the kids after the fact of the murders, I think Dylan's death shows what he is capable of, so he could have done all of it.

[mysteriew]

When you camp in a National Park, after you pay, you get a reciept for the payment and/or a camping permit. This guy had a habit of saving reciepts and etc. to prove where he was at any given minute, according to his blog. He most likely saved all of his camping/parking permits.

[SauerKraut]

What strikes me about all this is that the m.o. is just odd to me. Would a child molester typically bludgeon a family to get the kids? It just strikes me as being contrary to a "typical" child molester behavior. He seems elusive, sneaky, yet agressive. This crime with the family seems to be more the work of a pro, or drug gang etc. I don't know.

[mysteriew]

I found a link for you Liz. Remains have been found, but DNA analysis will possibily take three days.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/04/AR2005070400138.html

While we all highly suspect that these are the remains of Dylan, we do have to remember that there is no confirmation of this yet. It wouldn't be the first time that LE has found the remains of one person, while they were searching for another. So while that chance may be slim, it is there.

[jaybird]

I see your point on the mo being weird, but really.....he's a sick man. Did you read what his blog said? Something about how he wanted to do as much damage to society as possible and then die? Seems to me that (brutally) murdering a family, kidnapping the younger children, and then killing one of THEM, not to mention scaring the entire town is doing quite a bit of damage.

[mysteriew]

What strikes me about all this is that the m.o. is just odd to me. Would a child molester typically bludgeon a family to get the kids? It just strikes me as being contrary to a "typical" child molester behavior. He seems elusive, sneaky, yet agressive. This crime with the family seems to be more the work of a pro, or drug gang etc. I don't know.

While that may be the usual it is this quote from the article above that has everyone thinking that he may possibly have been involved in the murders

Days before the children disappeared, a message appeared on a Web site that officials said Duncan maintained. It said: "My intent is to harm society as much as I can, then die."

[Liz]

I found a link for you Liz. Remains have been found, but DNA analysis will possibily take three days.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/04/AR2005070400138.html

While we all highly suspect that these are the remains of Dylan, we do have to remember that there is no confirmation of this yet. It wouldn't be the first time that LE has found the remains of one person, while they were searching for another. So while that chance may be slim, it is there.


Thanks, mysteriew.

I was trying to point out to Cowgirl that the remains have not been confirmed as being those of Dylan Groene. Some of us are trying to keep hope that he is still alive somewhere.

On 11:00 news, they said the remains were found in St. Regis, MT ...scary! As, I made a wild guess that IF JED was involved, that is probably the town he'd pick. Just to be in your face, "Saint" Regis.
Rubbing in his good vs. evil --- saints vs sinners, crapola and how his Demons took over "good ole happy joe".

[SauerKraut]

While that may be the usual it is this quote from the article above that has everyone thinking that he may possibly have been involved in the murders

Yeah, that's the thing too, I have to wonder if he went to the campground that weekend on the way to Tacoma to see family. I do think he ended up at the house that night, but was he capable of these murders alone, with all those people in the house, I can't make sense of it.

[Liz]

Yeah, that's the thing too, I have to wonder if he went to the campground that weekend on the way to Tacoma to see family. I do think he ended up at the house that night, but was he capable of these murders alone, with all those people in the house, I can't make sense of it.


I think a lot of his camping was just out in the woods. Indeed it's hard to make sense of it, Sauerkraut. Even when we get all the details, if we ever do, it will be hard to make sense of it. Trying to comprehend such evil doings, is just plain confounding and incomprehensible to most of us.

[kline]

Im very familiar with that part of Montana,I lived in Thompson Falls for years(I currently live in Orofino Idaho)
St.Regis is a straight shot from the Groene Home accross the border through the Silver Valley (Enaville,Kellogg,Osborn,Wallace) then over Lookout Pass into Montana.
Its just a little crossroads truck stop area surrounded by miles of wilderness there are alot of camping areas in the vicinity.
Im a correctional officer and I tell you this revolving door policy with Sexual Predators has got to stop.
You have no idea how prevalent this problem really is
Even right here in Idaho.the fact this guy is from North Dakota is incidental, it could easily have been one of the legion of home grown idaho offenders we kick out onto the bricks every year.
Im also a father and it is frustrating and frightening. Im Heartsick for Shasta and Dylan.

[Liz]

Im very familiar with that part of Montana,I lived in Thompson Falls for years(I currently live in Orofino Idaho)
St.Regis is a straight shot from the Groene Home accross the border through the Silver Valley (Enaville,Kellogg,Osborn,Wallace) then over Lookout Pass into Montana.
Its just a little crossroads truck stop area surrounded by miles of wilderness there are alot of camping areas in the vicinity.
Im a correctional officer and I tell you this revolving door policy with Sexual Predators has got to stop.
You have no idea how prevalent this problem really is
Even right here in Idaho.the fact this guy is from North Dakota is incidental, it could easily have been one of the legion of home grown idaho offenders we kick out onto the bricks every year.
Im also a father and it is frustrating and frightening. Im Heartsick for Shasta and Dylan.


Hi kline, and welcome to websleuths! I bet it's likely you know a couple of my neighbors, G H and T P --- very nice folks. Unless COs don't use their real names. My m-i-l lives at C H & R in Orofino.

I think this has to be one of the most horrific crimes ever in Idaho. What I find horribly ironic is that the perp, Joe Duncan, is probably in the same facility (K.C. Jail) right now where Jesse Groene is. Jesse is scheduled to go to Cottonwood, but I imagine he has to wait until the drug program restarts, before they send him over there. Do you have more details on that by any chance?

Again, welcome aboard and keep posting! :)

[mysteriew]

Im very familiar with that part of Montana,I lived in Thompson Falls for years(I currently live in Orofino Idaho)
St.Regis is a straight shot from the Groene Home accross the border through the Silver Valley (Enaville,Kellogg,Osborn,Wallace) then over Lookout Pass into Montana.
Its just a little crossroads truck stop area surrounded by miles of wilderness there are alot of camping areas in the vicinity.
Im a correctional officer and I tell you this revolving door policy with Sexual Predators has got to stop.
You have no idea how prevalent this problem really is
Even right here in Idaho.the fact this guy is from North Dakota is incidental, it could easily have been one of the legion of home grown idaho offenders we kick out onto the bricks every year.
Im also a father and it is frustrating and frightening. Im Heartsick for Shasta and Dylan.

Welcome to the group Kline. Most of us agree with you about the revolving door policy for sex offenders needing to be stopped. So you don't have to convince this choir! We began compaining for stronger laws on sex offenders after the murders in Fla. and we believe that the changes need to be country wide. So stick around, you will find like minded people here.


http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/proud/groupwelcome.gif

[kline]

I havent heard any specifics about Jesse Groene's rider at Cottonwood.
(but I wouldnt be able to say anything if I had.)
I hope if nothing else, he has a reason to straighten himself out and be there for his little sister.I just discovered this website recently, I really appreciate all the well thought out and intelligent imput,especially concerning this case,I would have to agree this is one of the most heinous Idaho murder cases I can remember.

[Liz]

I havent heard any specifics about Jesse Groene's rider at Cottonwood.
(but I wouldnt be able to say anything if I had.)
I hope if nothing else, he has a reason to straighten himself out and be there for his little sister.I just discovered this website recently, I really appreciate all the well thought out and intelligent imput,especially concerning this case,I would have to agree this is one of the most heinous Idaho murder cases I can remember,(and unfortunately weve had some pretty noteworthy ones)


Wow, I wasn't aware there were so many noteworthy murders here. I think of Idaho as a very safe place! Guess I should do some research. Hope I don't get paranoid.

Also, I am going back to edit that post and put only an initial for the first names I mentioned you might know earlier. Just to be safe. ;)

[mysteriew]

Also, I am going back to edit that post and put only an initial for the first names I mentioned you might know earlier. Just to be safe. ;)

Excellent idea Liz. Unfortunately there are a lot of guys out there that scare me, and not just in Idaho. And too many of them surf the web.

[kline]

Dont be paranoid!:) statisticly im sure Idaho is much safer then many parts of the country.

But of course the Pacific Northwest is not immune from the same crime problems the rest of the country has.(Ted Bundy ,Green River,The Spokane Serial Killer)Right here in the Clearwater Valley we've had The Lewiston Civic Theater serial murder case(still unsolved).
From back in the 50's the abduction/murder of 12 year old Lonnie Jones(still unsolved) .
I guess you could say things dont happen like this around here often...but when they do they're often Weird.

[Liz]

Dont be paranoid!:) statisticly im sure Idaho is much safer then many parts of the country.

But of course the Pacific Northwest is not immune from the same crime problems the rest of the country has.(Ted Bundy ,Green River,The Spokane Serial Killer)Right here in the Clearwater Valley we've had The Lewiston Civic Theater serial murder case(still unsolved).
From back in the 50's the abduction/murder of 12 year old Lonnie Jones(still unsolved) .
I guess you could say things dont happen like this around here often...but when they do they're often Weird.


I promise, I'll try to avoid becoming paranoid. ;)
I am going to have to look those up so I can familiarize myself with them. We've only been here for just over 7 years. Crime here is literally non-existent compared to the southern state we moved from. Heck, I was (an innocent bystander) in a machine gun shootout in broad daylight, at a shopping center in 1981, back there! That was my first clue to move!

Something I just remembered about last night's 11p news, when they disclosed St. Regis as the location those remains were found - they also said they were found off of 'Little Joe Road'. It didn't even hit me until just a few minutes ago, about the perp's name being Joe. I think things are sounding less & less optimistic for little Dylan. :(

Oh, I hope those remains are not Dylan.

[kline]

As I posted on another thread I really Pray Dylan wasnt with that savage alive all this time.

Especially since they were apparently videotaped at a gas station in Kellogg shortly before Shasta was rescued.(Kellogg lies between CDA and St. Regis)
I think if memory serves me little Joe Road is between St.Regis and Superior.
I could be wrong.

[mysteriew]

Especially since they were apparently videotaped at a gas station in Kellogg shortly before Shasta was rescued.(Kellogg lies between CDA and St. Regis)
I think if memory serves me little Joe Road is between St.Regis and Superior.
I could be wrong.

They were videotaped at a gas station? I wasn't aware of that. Was Dylan with them at the time? Where was the station?

[Liz]

They were videotaped at a gas station? I wasn't aware of that. Was Dylan with them at the time? Where was the station?


Yes, Mysteriew. Krem news just showed the video footage again. Now they are even mentioning that Shasta tried to give eye contact to several adults; and asking why she didn't brush up against one of them. I finally was able to find out it was 6 hours before she was finally spotted at Denny's, that they stopped at Conoco in Kellogg, Idaho.

They bought 4 sodas, (I reported I thought it was two before) and $19.00 in gas. They spent 8 minutes at the store. While he stopped at a little booth, where customers would normally sit down to eat, and browsed the newspaper (probably looking to see if anything about the missing children was in there) he looked totally relaxed and unconcerned about Shasta as she freely browsed the isle!

It blew me away!

CNN was also running it this morning, at the 4 am top of the hour PDT.

ETA Forgot to tell you that Dylan was NOT with them, but you probably gathered that.

[close_enough]

good "first thead", Sauerkraut!!...

i've come to the conclusion that Duncan could have done this all by himself...with a gun, of course.....if those remains are Dylan's, then Duncan doesn't think a thing about murdering people...he's a sick SOB, imo, from reading his blog, & other things i've read....it's very likely he wanted to make some kind of sick statement, by beating Brenda, Slade, & Mark...you know, like his big "last hurrah", or something....."getting even"...i do think he's killed before...i do think it's very possible he had something to do w/Leanna Warren's disappearance, & probably others.....

i haven't seen any video footage yet, of Shasta & him, at a drive by market/gas station, though...i have fox on, & kinda thought something would be on, about it...very strange....i just wonder if he was thinking it was about time to get caught...now he's playing around w/law enforcement, by clamming up....he's going to be the talk of the country soon, once everything comes out, & he knows this, imo.....in his sick mind, maybe that's what he wanted all a long...he won't talk, so everyone will be just astonished about his actions, for ages....maybe he thinks he'll go down in history ???

[close_enough]

Fox just showed a picture of the camping area where Shasta & Dylan had been at one time, in western Montana...so i guess it's safe to say, Duncan killed Dylan there, & not at a home/house....

they just said that Shasta & Dylan's aunt will be interviewed shortly...

[mysteriew]

Yes, Mysteriew. Krem news just showed the video footage again. Now they are even mentioning that Shasta tried to give eye contact to several adults; and asking why she didn't brush up against one of them. I finally was able to find out it was 6 hours before she was finally spotted at Denny's, that they stopped at Conoco in Kellogg, Idaho.

They bought 4 sodas, (I reported I thought it was two before) and $19.00 in gas. They spent 8 minutes at the store. While he stopped at a little booth, where customers would normally sit down to eat, and browsed the newspaper (probably looking to see if anything about the missing children was in there) he looked totally relaxed and unconcerned about Shasta as she freely browsed the isle!

It blew me away!

CNN was also running it this morning, at the 4 am top of the hour PDT.

ETA Forgot to tell you that Dylan was NOT with them, but you probably gathered that.

Whoa, that is weird! It is almost like he was waiting for someone to recognise her! I have this theory that he took Shasta back to Cor D Alene on purpose so that she would get back to her Dad. I don't know why he would do that. Maybe because he planned on a cop assisted suicide and she was the bait? Or she was left alive to tell the story? Or because maybe he bonded with her in a non-sexual way? (kids being so non-judgemental) and wanted to get her home safe before he committed suicide or gave himself up. So I have thought since Shasta was found that her being brought to Cor D Alene was no accident. He brought her there for a reason. And the fact that he kept taking her into stores as he got closer, just makes me think he was wanting her to be recognized. After all, he wouldn't have had to take her into the store with him. He could have run in and paid for his gas quickly, all the while watching her through the windows. And for him (paranoid Joe) to have gotten so brazen so close to her home- there had to be a reason.

[close_enough]

Whoa, that is weird! It is almost like he was waiting for someone to recognise her! I have this theory that he took Shasta back to Cor D Alene on purpose so that she would get back to her Dad. I don't know why he would do that. Maybe because he planned on a cop assisted suicide and she was the bait? Or she was left alive to tell the story? Or because maybe he bonded with her in a non-sexual way? (kids being so non-judgemental) and wanted to get her home safe before he committed suicide or gave himself up. So I have thought since Shasta was found that her being brought to Cor D Alene was no accident. He brought her there for a reason. And the fact that he kept taking her into stores as he got closer, just makes me think he was wanting her to be recognized. After all, he wouldn't have had to take her into the store with him. He could have run in and paid for his gas quickly, all the while watching her through the windows. And for him (paranoid Joe) to have gotten so brazen so close to her home- there had to be a reason.

i don't know about the suicide thing, but i think there was a reason for him getting so close with Shasta, in plain view of others...personally, i don't think he wanted to die...he wants to live, & screw around w/LE, imo.....this is his way of finally "getting even" w/society....he didn't just make a stupid mistake...i think he probably enjoys the fact that LE didn't find him first...that he had to get out in the open w/her, for them to be able to find her....he had this entire thing planned...planned for a long time too....in his blog, back in January, 2005, he mentioned to a friend that he was going to be famous, & probably sooner than expected....(worded it along those lines)...

[Liz]

I don't know, mysteriew. A police cruiser pulled thru the station while JED was pumping the gas, and he ducked behind the gas pumper tank.

I don't know what his game was. It's hard for me to figure out the inside of a criminal mind.

Also, the last report I saw said the gas he purchased was $19.41 or $19.42, not the rounded off $19.00 that was reported earlier, which I reported. Just wanted to clarify before some picky poster gets upset.

[close_enough]

i think the remains are Dylans...there's apparently evidence in the vehicle, along w/what Shasta has told them, or they wouldn't have come across these remains in that area, in western Montana.....

ugh, i still haven't seen any footage, that yall are talking about....

[Beyond Belief]

I was just curious. Does anyone else besides me think that this man plays somekind of name game/word games? The street, with joe, in it, and the fifthnail, family of five, maybe shasta, number 5. Man and then that picture she has a 5 on shirt which I know means nothing, but....
I think this guy is a serial killer...maybe alot more remains out there.

[Liz]

KXLY just reported that it was Shasta that led investigators to St. Regis.

Earlier I heard that JED has expertise in GPS. I think that there was some type of GPS info in the vehicle. This is just a guess. It only makes sense since there were coordinates given in one of his blog entries I read about here at websleuths.
Although I think his blog entry state the amount of miles (eleven hundred and something) NE from his home, when it's clearly NW.

[mysteriew]

Also, the last report I saw said the gas he purchased was $19.41 or $19.42, not the rounded off $19.00 that was reported earlier, which I reported. Just wanted to clarify before some picky poster gets upset.

$19 was close enough for me. I would still like to know where his funding was coming from. I would have thought he would be stealing the gas, or paying with pennies by now. Instead he flops out a $50?

[close_enough]

I was just curious. Does anyone else besides me think that this man plays somekind of name game/word games? The street, with joe, in it, and the fifthnail, family of five, maybe shasta, number 5. Man and then that picture she has a 5 on shirt which I know means nothing, but....
I think this guy is a serial killer...maybe alot more remains out there.

i've missed something, BB...what street with joe in it??....i've missed these posts somehow....

[close_enough]

$19 was close enough for me. I would still like to know where his funding was coming from. I would have thought he would be stealing the gas, or paying with pennies by now. Instead he flops out a $50?

i posted this on another thread, i think....anyway, isn't it possible that he had stashed some money back, at one point, while planning this?

[close_enough]

Shasta & Dylan's aunt is being interviewd, by phone, on Fox...she said that although they've not gotten confirmation, LE does think these remains are Dylans....

[mysteriew]

Shasta & Dylan's aunt is being interviewd, by phone, on Fox...she said that although they've not gotten confirmation, LE does think these remains are Dylans....

I was so afraid of that. I wanted another miracle! Because Shasta being alive after all of this time is a miracle.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/sad/water100.gif Tears for Dylan

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/sad/roses.bmp Roses for Shasta

[Beyond Belief]

Shasta & Dylan's aunt is being interviewd, by phone, on Fox...she said that although they've not gotten confirmation, LE does think these remains are Dylans....
Oh, I missed it. I hope the family is doing alright.

[mysteriew]

i posted this on another thread, i think....anyway, isn't it possible that he had stashed some money back, at one point, while planning this?

He may have. But he has been on the run since May, and has been doing a lot of driving, with steadily increasing gas prices. Not to mention food and any other expenses he may have had. Eventually the money would have to run out. And this guy was not a rich man to start with, he was a student.

[mysteriew]

i've missed something, BB...what street with joe in it??....i've missed these posts somehow....

On an earlier post Liz gave the results of a broadcast

Something I just remembered about last night's 11p news, when they disclosed St. Regis as the location those remains were found - they also said they were found off of 'Little Joe Road'. It didn't even hit me until just a few minutes ago, about the perp's name being Joe. I think things are sounding less & less optimistic for little Dylan.

[close_enough]

i've missed something, BB...what street with joe in it??....i've missed these posts somehow....

ok, i just saw on Fox, a picture of the road sign..."little joe rd"....how strange...how creepy....

[close_enough]

On an earlier post Liz gave the results of a broadcast

thanks...i just now saw that on Fox...

[dragonfly]

If Brenda and Mark were selling any drugs to the Sunday visitors and for some reason JED had the opportunity to either be there or suspect that there was some money in the house. He could have funded his travels etc on the money taken from the house the day of the murders.

[Liz]

Remember that this maggot was a child pornographer, and also a website developer / designer. I'm sure he made good money in both of those occupations.

[Cowgirl]

The guy had some money to spend. He just posted bond before he rented the Jeep. It was a cash bond. I don't know if he got a bondsman at all because he surely didn't have any property to put up and I doubt that his Pontiac Grand Am would serve as collateral on a $15K bond. So he had some cash.

He may have been trading in kiddy porn or that type of thing with all these blog connections he made. The NAMBLA site does not allow anything illegal to go on there because the FBI watches it all the time, but these perverts get to know each other and then use the mail to send each other stuff. You might notice that most of the time that these child pornographers get caught, they get charged with mail fraud. That's because they use it to pay for illegal activities. So as much as these websites help LE to find out who is a pervert, it is not the place they usually find their illegal activity.

In any case, it is possible he has been stashing cash ever since his current court case, which happened a year ago. He also had two jobs at one point and didn't live like a king, so he may have been preparing for this horror. And then he may have come into some money at the crime scene.

[kk's mom]

I've been trying to keep my mouth shut but I think you need to drop it. Let it go.

These threads are getting out of hand. I've never seen so much bickering back and forth since I've been on Websleuths.

[close_enough]

The guy had some money to spend. He just posted bond before he rented the Jeep. It was a cash bond. I don't know if he got a bondsman at all because he surely didn't have any property to put up and I doubt that his Pontiac Grand Am would serve as collateral on a $15K bond. So he had some cash.

He may have been trading in kiddy porn or that type of thing with all these blog connections he made. The NAMBLA site does not allow anything illegal to go on there because the FBI watches it all the time, but these perverts get to know each other and then use the mail to send each other stuff. You might notice that most of the time that these child pornographers get caught, they get charged with mail fraud. That's because they use it to pay for illegal activities. So as much as these websites help LE to find out who is a pervert, it is not the place they usually find their illegal activity.

In any case, it is possible he has been stashing cash ever since his current court case, which happened a year ago. He also had two jobs at one point and didn't live like a king, so he may have been preparing for this horror. And then he may have come into some money at the crime scene.

very good points.....there's all kinds of ways he could have had the money...i too think it's possible that he started stashing cash, early on....heck, it's not like they ate expensive food every night...for all we know they roasted hot dogs by the campfire, drank generic sodas, slim jims, junk food, whatever....the only real thing he would need money for, would be for gas...

[dragonfly]

Wouldn't it appear that JED has now at least run out of money...since he can't afford to hire an attorney and will be using a public defender.
Maybe that is why he decided to journey back to CdL with Shasta and go into public openly.

[Cowgirl]

Wouldn't it appear that JED has now at least run out of money...since he can't afford to hire an attorney and will be using a public defender.
Maybe that is why he decided to journey back to CdL with Shasta and go into public openly.Yep, that could be it. He certainly was getting careless. And whatever he had before, he is probably close to broke now. It may be that he planned to sell Shasta to some other pervert. But you would think he would not have been seen with her like that. And since he needs a public defender, the kitty must be empty. It really is amazing she is still alive.

Of course, you know, he may have been in and out of stores and restaurants before this an no one noticed...

[mysteriew]

Now that they know for sure what area he has been in, a lot of people will be reviewing their survellience tapes for the last few days. We will probably hear if he has been in other stores.

[Cowgirl]

Now that they know for sure what area he has been in, a lot of people will be reviewing their survellience tapes for the last few days. We will probably hear if he has been in other stores.I am sure they will, mysteriew, and in fact, that one they are showing is probably the result of LE getting the info from Shasta and asking the store for their tape or maybe they found a receipt in the Jeep.

Unfortunately, most places that use those surveillance tapes just rewind the tape when it runs out and tape over it. Most places do not remove and store the tapes and only keep the tapes for the cops if they get held up. High security places keep their tapes for a while but convenience stores do things the cheapest way possible. So most tapes won't go back more than a few days. Too bad, too. But Shasta should be able to tell them where they have been, at least.

[Liz]

The reason they have obtained that surveilance tape is because the female checkout clerk remembered seeing them, after JED was arrested. Then the man that owns the Conoco station took it upon himself to review the surveilance tape and found the perp and Shasta on it, from just 6 hours earlier.

That's the way that story went. Straight from the horse's mouth!

[mysteriew]

[QUOTE=Liz]The reason they have obtained that surveilance tape is because the female checkout clerk remembered seeing them, after JED was arrested. Then the man that owns the Conoco station took it upon himself to review the surveilance tape and found the perp and Shasta on it, from just 6 hours earlier.

LOL, it is so good to have a local connection.

[Liz]

LOL, it is so good to have a local connection.


You betcher sweet bippy! :)

[Sherlock]

I've been trying to keep my mouth shut but I think you need to drop it. Let it go.

These threads are getting out of hand. I've never seen so much bickering back and forth since I've been on Websleuths.

Amen KK. I feel the same way. I even stopped posting for a long time because it was getting so out of hand. Something is in the air!

Sherlock

[Jesstexas]

He's a career criminal. He probably was getting his $$ by stealing - credit cards, checks - whatever.

I think maybe Dylan is dead and Shasta is alive because Dylan fought him and maybe Shasta didn't. Control is key with this sick-o and what good is a child to him that he can't control? I think he would have eventually killed Shasta too once he tired of her (thank God he hadn't yet come to that point).

I find it very odd that someone who thinks he's as smart as this sick-o apparently does took Shasta out in public with no disguise at all. There has to be some twisted logic in that act - it wasn't just a slip-up on his part. He mentioned in his blog about getting even before and getting away with it. The Denny's wasn't the first place he took Shasta out in public - he got away with it at the gas station and who knows how many times before. I'm thinking maybe it was the sick-o's way of testing God or something. "If somebody recognizes her, then that's God's way of telling me what I'm doing is wrong. If nobody raises any alarm bells, then obviously what I'm doing is okay with God." (or something along that line)

[JerseyGirl]

What strikes me about all this is that the m.o. is just odd to me. Would a child molester typically bludgeon a family to get the kids? It just strikes me as being contrary to a "typical" child molester behavior. He seems elusive, sneaky, yet agressive. This crime with the family seems to be more the work of a pro, or drug gang etc. I don't know.I think that this guy was perfectly capable of doing this on his own. Whether or not he did, I don't know but I think that he can. We know that he's been diagnosed as a sexual sadist - key word for me is sadist. He enjoys causing pain, and watching people suffer. Even if he had a gun, I do think that he would have preferred to kill them more violently, and he would have derived pleasure from forcing the others to witness the preceding murders.

The schizoid factor also tells me that when he's "in a mood", he's probably got strength that we would never imagine.

[close_enough]

I think that this guy was perfectly capable of doing this on his own. Whether or not he did, I don't know but I think that he can. We know that he's been diagnosed as a sexual sadist - key word for me is sadist. He enjoys causing pain, and watching people suffer. Even if he had a gun, I do think that he would have preferred to kill them more violently, and he would have derived pleasure from forcing the others to witness the preceding murders.

The schizoid factor also tells me that when he's "in a mood", he's probably got strength that we would never imagine.

i agree w/you Jersey....he enjoys causing pain...if the rumor that Mark & Slade were sexually mutilated, is true, then i personally think it fits right in, also....afterall, we already know that he burned one victim with a cigarette/cigarette lighter....he didn't kill that victim either, so he likes to inflict pain....

[JerseyGirl]

I see your point on the mo being weird, but really.....he's a sick man. Did you read what his blog said? Something about how he wanted to do as much damage to society as possible and then die? Seems to me that (brutally) murdering a family, kidnapping the younger children, and then killing one of THEM, not to mention scaring the entire town is doing quite a bit of damage.You have a very good point there. Something I never considered is this - what's worse than murdering an entire family? Murdering an entire family with the exception of one. Leaving one behind to suffer the loss of her family.

[JerseyGirl]

I was just curious. Does anyone else besides me think that this man plays somekind of name game/word games? The street, with joe, in it, and the fifthnail, family of five, maybe shasta, number 5. Man and then that picture she has a 5 on shirt which I know means nothing, but....
I think this guy is a serial killer...maybe alot more remains out there.All of these little weird coincidences certainly do seem serial-killer like when you put them all together, don't they?

[JerseyGirl]

Yep, that could be it. He certainly was getting careless. And whatever he had before, he is probably close to broke now. It may be that he planned to sell Shasta to some other pervert. But you would think he would not have been seen with her like that. And since he needs a public defender, the kitty must be empty. It really is amazing she is still alive.

Of course, you know, he may have been in and out of stores and restaurants before this an no one noticed...He sounded angry in his blog about getting even and not getting caught. It's almost like he wanted the attention. Until I hear more, I strongly suspect that he was simply getting more brazen taking Shasta out in public. I think that it's largely a game on his part.

[Beyond Belief]

All of these little weird coincidences certainly do seem serial-killer like when you put them all together, don't they?
That timeline we are working on in the other thread is getting very interesting. Idon't know what this guy thought he could encrypt that would keep the WS gang out. LOL:rolleyes:

[JerseyGirl]

That timeline we are working on in the other thread is getting very interesting. Idon't know what this guy thought he could encrypt that would keep the WS gang out. LOL:rolleyes:lol - okay, I'm intrigued. I'm going to check it out right now.

[Beyond Belief]

lol - okay, I'm intrigued. I'm going to check it out right now.
I have to leave for work. I didn't have a chance to check unsolved murders in the tampa-orlando area for month of feb weekend of the 26 2004, he was in that area.

[Beyond Belief]

Press conference pacific time 1;30

Press conference mountain time 3:00

[Tom'sGirl]

Press conference pacific time 1;30

Press conference mountain time 3:00Thanks BB for the heads up!

[Sherlock]

With all due respect, please do not tell me that I am mistaken in my thinking. I do not post at another forum, I am not mistaken. I have been posting at WS for three years, and I have never seen the bickering that is taking place, and I refuse to participate in it. Therefore, I am going to politely tell you, that it may have been running smooth as silk for 48 days, however, I haven't been here, as I said in my post. I haven't posted in a long time. You are obviously new, if you don't even realize that when I say I haven't posted in a long time, that surpasses 48 days!

Now, let's move along. If you are going to bicker with another poster, and the Mods tell you to stop, and others are tired of seeing it, just stop bickering.

Hope to read your posts in the future, on a nicer level. :)

Sherlock

[Mygirlsadie]

Whoa, that is weird! It is almost like he was waiting for someone to recognise her! I have this theory that he took Shasta back to Cor D Alene on purpose so that she would get back to her Dad. I don't know why he would do that. Maybe because he planned on a cop assisted suicide and she was the bait? Or she was left alive to tell the story? Or because maybe he bonded with her in a non-sexual way? (kids being so non-judgemental) and wanted to get her home safe before he committed suicide or gave himself up. So I have thought since Shasta was found that her being brought to Cor D Alene was no accident. He brought her there for a reason. And the fact that he kept taking her into stores as he got closer, just makes me think he was wanting her to be recognized. After all, he wouldn't have had to take her into the store with him. He could have run in and paid for his gas quickly, all the while watching her through the windows. And for him (paranoid Joe) to have gotten so brazen so close to her home- there had to be a reason.
I think the reason he brought her around town was to kind of do the 'IN YOUR FACE' thing ... If he wanted to reunite her with her dad then he would of just dumped her off on the side of the road and took off or left her in a store etc.

[JerseyGirl]

I think the reason he brought her around town was to kind of do the 'IN YOUR FACE' thing ... If he wanted to reunite her with her dad then he would of just dumped her off on the side of the road and took off or left her in a store etc.Was he found with a weapon? Is it possible that he had a gun, and would have started shooting if Shasta were to draw attention to them? Maybe he told Shasta that?

[Liz]

Sherlock, with all due respect, I never said you were mistaken in your thinking.

What *I* meant by *forum*, when I said "this forum had been running smooth as silk", is this "Groene family forum", specifically. Websleuths is composed of many, many forums, the way I see it. But, it's all in the perception, as I say. ;)

There is the
"Laci Peterson Forum"
"Groene Family Forum"
"Jon Benet Ramsey Forum"
"The Political Forum"
"The Jessica Lunsford Frum"
Etc, etc, etc

SO, I apologize for the confusion, and for leading you to believe I was trying to tell you your were incorrect in your thinking. Nor was I trying to give you a hard time.

I rarely post on any other forums, within Websleuths; and I don't post on any other communities, (like Court Tv) at all. I barely even read any other forums at Websleuths, or any other forums anywhere else.

I am very easy to get along with and try to be courteous and use my manners and the live by the Golden Rule. I do like to deal in facts, as a rule.

I'm sorry I got on your nerves. It must be going around. :)

I'm glad that you have began posting again, and I hope you enjoy it a much as I usually do! Have a GREAT day!

:blowkiss:
~Liz

[BobF]

SauerKraut,

Yep, they probably did find park passes or maps or something in the Jeep to tell them where he has been. From his sick blog and his diagnosis as a schizoid sexual sadist and then considering the crime scene, they may also have found a gun or two and that may be how he took advantage of the murder victims because they surely were larger than he appears at 150 pounds on a tall frame. He could have held a gun on one and made that person tie up the others. The fact that the murders were bludgeonings made me think at first that the perp had no firearm, but he may have enjoyed killing them that way if it was this guy. And guns make noise. As angry as he seemed in his blog posts, I have no doubt that he is capable of it. If anyone thinks that maybe he just got the kids after the fact of the murders, I think Dylan's death shows what he is capable of, so he could have done all of it.
I was thinking they probably used his GPS system that he was using for his geocaching. I wonder if that was found in his Jeep, and if so, I wonder if he was using it, since this would explain how they could pinpoint his locations. :twocents:

[Shazzie]

Whatever label you want to put on that comment, the fact is, some kid is dead. If it's not Dylan, it's someone else's child. :(

ETA: It seems almost overwhelmingly likely to me that the remains found are Dylan's. LE is being careful what they say, presumably because they want to be positive beyond the shadow of a doubt before stating for a fact that it is Dylan. But I don't see any reason to assume otherwise. Sorry if that sounds cold to anyone, but let's get real. The odds that either of them was going to turn up alive after being missing for 6 weeks were infinitesimal. The fact that one of them has is miraculous. Let's not lose sight of that, shall we? :) (Not saying anyone is doing that, just that I hope we don't let it happen.)

If this is not Dylan, and he does turn up alive eventually, I'll be happy for the remaining Groene family members but sad for the family of whatever child this is. As I am sure everyone else here will be.

[Mygirlsadie]

Was he found with a weapon? Is it possible that he had a gun, and would have started shooting if Shasta were to draw attention to them? Maybe he told Shasta that?
Jerseygirl I cannot even begin to imagine WHAT all he has told that poor girl. To be able to parade her around in public the way he did was obvious to me that he had her totally and completely under his wing so to say. I am sure the child was just scared to death. As far as him having a weapon I have no idea I havent heard anything.

[Shazzie]

Jerseygirl I cannot even begin to imagine WHAT all he has told that poor girl. To be able to parade her around in public the way he did was obvious to me that he had her totally and completely under his wing so to say. I am sure the child was just scared to death. As far as him having a weapon I have no idea I havent heard anything.
I don't mean to be nitpicky, but to be "under someone's wing" means to be under their protection. I suspect that "under his thrall" may be closer to what you meant to convey. And I agree completely. He obviously had her completely under his control. No telling what he may have told her to get her to comply with his orders, but the kinds of techniques kidnappers and abductors use to control their victims are well-documented.

He is slime.

[Shazzie]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/05/idaho.children/

"Combined with all the evidence the investigators were able to obtain in those first six to 12 hours and the fact that this is one of the many sites where we believe that Duncan held the Groene children, or stayed with the Groene children, over those last six or seven weeks, and then finding the remains -- that just all leads us to believe that these are most likely remains of Dylan," Wolfinger said. "However, we're not going to make that a hundred percent until we get the DNA confirmation later in the week."

Like I said, LE's statements about the likely identity of the remains have been cautious. This is the strongest one I've seen so far.

It is tragic, but thank God the little girl has survived. What a miracle that is!

[Sherlock]

Liz:

LOL :laugh: :blowkiss:

[indigomood]

Liz:

LOL :laugh: :blowkiss:
I believe she is taking a short sabbatical :silenced:

[Casshew]

Posts like that one should be reported :mad:

[Tom'sGirl]

Posts like that one should be reported :mad:Oh come on, what is the big deal..........geeeez:rolleyes:

[Sherlock]

I believe she is taking a short sabbatical :silenced:

Thank God for those paid sabbaticals. Everyone deserves one. :)

LOL

Sherlock

[Casshew]

Oh come on, what is the big deal..........geeeez:rolleyes:
Calling your fellow members posts "dumbassed & moronic", is just not acceptable IMO

Well maybe on Court TV it's okay :eek:

[Sherlock]

Calling your fellow members posts "dumbassed & moronic", is just not acceptable IMO

Well maybe on Court TV it's okay :eek:


THAT"S what it's been like, Court TV. LOL thanks for some of us that tried to keep this place completely different than CTV. It's ok, good always prevails, and it will again. Everyone is good and wants to be good, otherwise, why would they be so interested in missing persons?

So cass, you wouldn't mind if I call you a dumbassed moron in the most loving manner? <grin>

Sherlock

[jaybird]

Originally Posted by Casshew
Calling your fellow members posts "dumbassed & moronic", is just not acceptable IMO

Well maybe on Court TV it's okay :eek:





I agree Cass....what is this, Junior High?

[Casshew]

So cass, you wouldn't mind if I call you a dumbassed moron in the most loving manner? <grin>
You can call me anything you like, sherlock :blowkiss:

[Gracelin]

You all need to knock off the bickering..
This fourm is about the children and the murders not your ego's..

[SewingDeb]

Sauerkraut,
That makes perfect sense. I'll bet that's how they found him too.

[SewingDeb]

Remember that this maggot was a child pornographer, and also a website developer / designer. I'm sure he made good money in both of those occupations.

I must have missed something. I haven't seen that he was a child pornographer.

[CaliKid]

You have a very good point there. Something I never considered is this - what's worse than murdering an entire family? Murdering an entire family with the exception of one. Leaving one behind to suffer the loss of her family.
This is something I've been thinking about since I found out Shasta had been rescued but Dylan still missing. I cannot fathom a tragedy in which this child has lost her mother, her "step-father" and 2 of her 4 older brothers. And probably all murdered in front of her eyes.

[Idaho SoccerFreak]

Hi everyone. This is my first post here, but I have been following this case and forum for a long time. I am not sure if this is where to post this, so if it needs to be moved, feel free. I was just thinking, and it occured to me that the times of Duncan and Shasta being in Kellogg and being discovered in Coeur d'Alene were 6 hours apart. I have driven between Kellogg and Coeur d'Alene many times, and it takes nowhere near 6 hours. It takes closer to an hour. They may have been traveling, but they did not simply get feul in Kellogg and continue on their journey west. They must have stopped elsewhere. Also, concerning the idea of Duncan simply wanting to take Shasta home or to somewhere she was recognized, this does not make sense. To get from Kellogg to Coeur d'Alene, you drive DIRECTLY past the Groene house on I90. Can you imagine what Shasta was feeling when she rode past her own home, boarded up, with a police officer sitting there in his car? It must have been pure torture.

[Shazzie]

I must have missed something. I haven't seen that he was a child pornographer.
Me, neither, Deb. I'm very curious to know where that information came from!

[Jack]

You have a very good point there. Something I never considered is this - what's worse than murdering an entire family? Murdering an entire family with the exception of one. Leaving one behind to suffer the loss of her family.


I think he wasn't going to leave her behind at all. I read a news article today that said she was seen on a surveilance camera in a mini-mart type store walking around getting close to other people and then staring them in the face as if she was trying to be recognized, but she didn't say anything. She could have. You know she could have just started screaming her name immediately when out of arms length but she didn't, she just stared. This leads me to believe he had told her he would let her go if someone recognized her but he really had a plan to take her life in sort of a hostage situation if they were recognized. Maybe he planned to take his own life then too so he wouldn't have to face justice. I know this sounds like a stretch of the imagination, and it may be, but I just can't imagine he suddenly took pity on the child after killing almost her entire family and decided to risk being caught in order to be kind to her. I truly believe he intended to go out in a "blaze of glory" as they say...

[Gracelin]

. To get from Kellogg to Coeur d'Alene, you drive DIRECTLY past the Groene house on I90. Can you imagine what Shasta was feeling when she rode past her own home, boarded up, with a police officer sitting there in his car? It must have been pure torture.
Hello and welcome to WS, Interesting first post.

I can't imagine how numb her little mind must be, He may have drove by just to prove to her that they were really gone.. and to show LE that he could come and go at will.

[mysteriew]

Hi everyone. This is my first post here, but I have been following this case and forum for a long time. I am not sure if this is where to post this, so if it needs to be moved, feel free. I was just thinking, and it occured to me that the times of Duncan and Shasta being in Kellogg and being discovered in Coeur d'Alene were 6 hours apart. I have driven between Kellogg and Coeur d'Alene many times, and it takes nowhere near 6 hours. It takes closer to an hour. They may have been traveling, but they did not simply get feul in Kellogg and continue on their journey west. They must have stopped elsewhere. Also, concerning the idea of Duncan simply wanting to take Shasta home or to somewhere she was recognized, this does not make sense. To get from Kellogg to Coeur d'Alene, you drive DIRECTLY past the Groene house on I90. Can you imagine what Shasta was feeling when she rode past her own home, boarded up, with a police officer sitting there in his car? It must have been pure torture.

Welcome to the board IdahoSoccerFreak. Glad you stopped by. And glad you decided to post. I am afraid that I am one of the ones that discussed that he may have been bringing Shasta home. He may have driven by the Groene home, but I am sure if he was returning her, he wouldn't have dropped her off there. He had to have known the history and if not, it would have been obvious that there would be no one home there.
Why would he have brought Shasta home? I don't think I am capable of understanding this guys mind or what his motives may have been. It could have been for her to tell the story. It could have been that he planned a cop assisted suicide. It could be that he was tired of running and was running out of money. Who knows what was on this freak's mind or in his plans.
But why would he have taken her to her very own home town, where he had to have known there would be posters of her on every door? Where she was sure to be recognized. And he evidently stopped a short distance from her home. In a diner where may possibly have been to before with her family. That just doesn't make sense.
Now, I am trying to figure out where they were between the time they left the gas station and when they arrived at the diner? That also doesn't make sense.

[Sofia]

THAT"S what it's been like, Court TV. LOL thanks for some of us that tried to keep this place completely different than CTV. It's ok, good always prevails, and it will again. Everyone is good and wants to be good, otherwise, why would they be so interested in missing persons?

So cass, you wouldn't mind if I call you a dumbassed moron in the most loving manner? <grin>

Sherlock
Sorry to have to tell you Sherlock, but there are pedophiles on CTV who don't want to be good, and their interest in missing persons is prurient.

[WordsofWisdom]

I .....This leads me to believe he had told her he would let her go if someone recognized her but he really had a plan to take her life in sort of a hostage situation if they were recognized.

Hard to explain this to folks that have never been molested.
But Shasta was acting exactly like a child that was molested.
You don't dare even blink without permission. Or else.

Incest victims, for example, will hold hands, and walk willingly, with the dad, in front of Mom. Almost as if Mom is the outsider, and the child and Dad are the couple. Very Common.

In addition, the further threat was the knowledge that he had already killed her other family members.

[Mygirlsadie]

Welcome to the board IdahoSoccerFreak. Glad you stopped by. And glad you decided to post. I am afraid that I am one of the ones that discussed that he may have been bringing Shasta home. He may have driven by the Groene home, but I am sure if he was returning her, he wouldn't have dropped her off there. He had to have known the history and if not, it would have been obvious that there would be no one home there.
Why would he have brought Shasta home? I don't think I am capable of understanding this guys mind or what his motives may have been. It could have been for her to tell the story. It could have been that he planned a cop assisted suicide. It could be that he was tired of running and was running out of money. Who knows what was on this freak's mind or in his plans.
But why would he have taken her to her very own home town, where he had to have known there would be posters of her on every door? Where she was sure to be recognized. And he evidently stopped a short distance from her home. In a diner where may possibly have been to before with her family. That just doesn't make sense.
Now, I am trying to figure out where they were between the time they left the gas station and when they arrived at the diner? That also doesn't make sense.
I am curious as to where he got his money? Did he work?

[IdahoMom]

I am curious as to where he got his money? Did he work?
Maybe he sold child pornography. :( :furious:

[SauerKraut]

I think the reason he brought her around town was to kind of do the 'IN YOUR FACE' thing ... If he wanted to reunite her with her dad then he would of just dumped her off on the side of the road and took off or left her in a store etc.

Yes, yes, see this is what I said. I think he was telling himself, "I can get away and fool the cops and rub Shasta right under their stupid noses." I really think this. But he was coward enough to not chance it during the day. I think absolutely he was testing the waters. It gave him gratification, more courage. I think he would have eventually killed her but you know, Shasta looks like a little girl beyond her years. I bet she actually befriended him and he liked that. I think he enjoyed her company. Sick bastard.

[SauerKraut]

I think truly he was testing the waters by bringing her into Dennys. I think he thought he was outsmarting everyone but at the same time, he was too scared to do it during the day. I don't know if he would not have snapped and killed her later on. I hope to God she did not see her brother die. This is all too much.

[indigomood]

Maybe he sold child pornography. :( :furious:
well, we know he had a webcam, which in the hands of a level three sex offender is terrifying to even think about. He said on his own blog that he was estranged from most of his family, so it wasn't like he was using his webcam to stay connected to loved ones, imo.

I'm sure he used it to post disgusting pics of himself on Korean friendfinder and Gawd knows what else... :behindbar

[SauerKraut]

I don't remember who posted it, but this guy, IMO, was definitely not intending to leave Shasta at a safe house. I just don't think so. I think this was his way of defying authorities to show up with her right under the public's nose and not get caught. I think that's why they chicken sh*t picked 2 am!!!

Shasta was molested? Oh God, this makes me so angry. How did he take over Slade, Brenda AND Mark???? I don't get it. He must have had a gun. I think he had to have been watching the family from the campground, or he saw Slade mowing the lawn, something. Have they mentioned any connection with him and Lutner. Something about that guy makes me think he knows something. Can't put my finger on it.

[kahskye]

I think he wasn't going to leave her behind at all. I read a news article today that said she was seen on a surveilance camera in a mini-mart type store walking around getting close to other people and then staring them in the face as if she was trying to be recognized, but she didn't say anything. She could have. You know she could have just started screaming her name immediately when out of arms length but she didn't, she just stared. This leads me to believe he had told her he would let her go if someone recognized her but he really had a plan to take her life in sort of a hostage situation if they were recognized. Maybe he planned to take his own life then too so he wouldn't have to face justice. I know this sounds like a stretch of the imagination, and it may be, but I just can't imagine he suddenly took pity on the child after killing almost her entire family and decided to risk being caught in order to be kind to her. I truly believe he intended to go out in a "blaze of glory" as they say...
I've got a 9 yr old dd and she knows the mom was killed, doesn't know how, and that the children were taken by a man. She knows he did some bad things to them. To her, just touching inappropriately is bad. She knows how Shasta was seen on the surveilance camera but didn't say anything. I asked her if she would keep quiet like that or scream to get someone to see her and let them know she had been kidnapped. My dd thought for a moment and said she might not scream if the man told her the rest of her family would be killed and she thought that's probably why Shasta was afraid to talk because she was so afraid.

That's pretty scary how a child can be manupulated by a monster.

[indigomood]

Shasta was molested? Oh God, this makes me so angry. How did he take over Slade, Brenda AND Mark???? I don't get it. He must have had a gun.

Probably the same way BTK was able to overcome the Otera family...
a gun in the hands of a crazed maniac with wild eyes was probably enough to subdue everyone by the imminent threat of violence...

[Marisa714]

Hi,
I was just wondering if you were the same Sherlock that posts over at Maura's website? Sorry if your not!

[Shelayne]

I must have missed something. I haven't seen that he was a child pornographer.

I don't know if he was a child pornographer as in selling his images, but the 6 year old boy he molested in Detroit Lakes, MN said that JED videotaped him as he was molested. :mad:

I just heard this on my local news tonight. I had thought that he "only" (as if that is marginal) pulled the boys pants down, but he did molest him as well--and videotaped it! :sick: The chances are he has done that before.

[IdahoSpud]

I was thinking they probably used his GPS system that he was using for his geocaching. I wonder if that was found in his Jeep, and if so, I wonder if he was using it, since this would explain how they could pinpoint his locations. :twocents:
My thoughts exactly, I bet he marked waypoints on his GPS and LE used it to track him back. The GPS could provide a lot of information. :dance:

[chiperoni]

I am curious as to where he got his money? Did he work?
He probably stole from dylan and shasta's home if there was any cash around, maybe dealt drugs. He was driving a stolen vehicle. He stole money, lives, and innocent hearts. Now he's stealing time by not confessing... again this is another affront to shasta and her father. He wants to prolong the agony because he's angry he got caught. Yah he worked at being a thief, bully, murderer, molester and a coward. He certainly was proficient in malevolent multi-tasking. :sick:

[chiperoni]

Maybe he sold child pornography. :( :furious:
He was a malevolent multi-tasker. He probably stole cash from Dylan and Shasta's home. He stole lives, dignity, innocent hearts and now he's stealing time by not confessing -- a final affront to Shasta and her father. :sick:

[CaliKid]

And can you imagine what the trial is going to be like for this little girl?

[kline]

It probably isnt the first time he's driven passed the Groene home with Shasta.
He was getting off on indulging in the very depths of depravity and cruelty he's only dreamed of before.His last Hurrah.
I really think he may have planned on cop suicide and lost the nerve at the last instant.He's institutionalized enough to just submit to arrest when it came time for it.Hes a coward.What a pity.For Shasta and the state of Idaho.

[Yeah,me]

It's a pity to all of us that have been following this case. Just to know that this type of evil exists in this world is repulsive to all belief. I so badly want to hold that little girl in my arms and tell her the world was looking for her. It makes me want to hold my own just a little closer at night.

[kline]

I know what you mean,I have a six year old little girl and Shasta reminds me so much of her.
i know its irrational and unfair but I feel like we failed those children.

While the FBI and the Local law enforcement with all their might didnt help them one bit( though you cant blame them for jumping to the conclusions about the crime that they did-who wouldnt?) still, here's this animal running around with impunity terrorizing and violating these children at will.
And for me, living in such close proximity.
I lived close to St. Regis for years, my parents still do.
I pass through all the time, ditto for the Silver Valley,I went to junior high in Kellogg,ive been in that convience store dozens of times.
I have personal connections to so many places in this tragedy its like"Why couldnt I have known? I would have done something.
Why couldnt I have seen Them? I would have recognized Shasta in a heartbeat.I would have done anything to save them just like my own children." *sigh* Its crazy I know.
But six weeks man.Six weeks.
Unfortunately I suspect Im probably not the only one to feel this way.

[dannyodie]

after watching the video of shasta going into the gas station I can't help but think that if she had not been located that she could have very well never been seen or heard from again. the person at the dennys is certainly a hero out of all of the folks in the general public this lady was the only one to really take notice. I think that shasta knew that her time was limited with this man and that had she not been noticed she may have just completly vanished with no trace. I wonder how many more bodies this man has left at state parks to rot away. it looks like to me that he knows how to survive in the wilderness and makes a habit of using camp sights as a place of refuge. I think that he probably stayed in the camp behind their home and noticed them out in the yard, or maybe had seen the house from I 90? if that is possible. the police were right in one aspect, that the kids were there when the murders took place, I don't think that they saw the actual blows, I feel he is the one that took them out of the house and placed them in the truck and then went back in to kill the ones that he had bound. I think the kids knew their mom and brother and mark had been killed due to the fact that he would have had blood all over him, I would think that a tire iron may have been used in this crime. we were all convinced that this was drug related, including myself due to some of the background history. I wonder if this man knew mark in some way or another? I wonder if lutner knows him? I see him getting out of jail sooner than they intend to keep him. I think that the kids saw everyone tied up and knew something bad was about to happen. the fact that shasta ask for her daddy when she was located is a sure sign she knew her family had been killed. my heart weeps for the pain little dylan went through, he probably has been deceased 3 to 5 weeks. seeing this man in the video reading the paper is a clear sign that he was keeping up with news to see if a body had been found in the park and of any more news about the murders. I think it was a good idea that the media was cut off the way they were, I feel this is probably made him feel more comfortable about being out in public with her, seeing shastas body language in the video is a clear sign she has suffered a great emotional ordeal that will take years for her to get past, I certainly would ask everyone to pray to the lord to help her remember all that needs to be remembered for the investigators and then for those memories to be erased from her mind, she certainly is an adorable child and I am joyful she is home. please if anyone knows how and where I could send a greeting to her and her family please pm me.

[kline]

You know I was trying to be charitable towards the Investigators

but I just saw a KHQ headline that set me off:
"Investigators Remain Tight-Lipped but Claim Progress In Investigation"
Well....Thank Goodness for that.
Im glad theyre privvy to privileged info thats about to blow the lid off this case...oh yeah,theyve been acting like that for six weeks while they were about as close to piecing together what happened as my Cat was.
Shaking down every brain damaged burn out in N.Idaho while Shasta and Dylan were out there alone with an Evil animal and no one even looking remotely in the right direction.
Thank God Shasta's back and can draw them maps.
Unfair I know.I need a nap.
But Im sure most of your assumptions are correct Danny.
Except he probably told them the family was dead if in fact he didnt make them watch.I think this guy would get off on that.
If he didnt kill Dylan in front of Shasta I would be amazed ( grateful,but amazed.) Of course hell probably claim Dylan died of Peritonitus or internal injuries and plead involutary manslaughter.
Im sounding cynical and bitter. Forgive me. I need sleep.Ill be more cheerful later.:)

[kpass]

It probably isnt the first time he's driven passed the Groene home with Shasta.
He was getting off on indulging in the very depths of depravity and cruelty he's only dreamed of before.His last Hurrah.
I really think he may have planned on cop suicide and lost the nerve at the last instant.He's institutionalized enough to just submit to arrest when it came time for it.Hes a coward.What a pity.For Shasta and the state of Idaho.

He drove past her house??? Forgive me, but this is my first chance to get on since yesterday...last night the website was going haywire!

[kline]

Yeah,in order to get from Kellogg to Coeur d Alene you would pass right by the Groene house.

Its pretty much a direct line up the HGWY from CDA to Kellogg then Wallace Up over Lookout Pass into Montana about 30 miles is St.Regis.

[Sherlock]

Hi,
I was just wondering if you were the same Sherlock that posts over at Maura's website? Sorry if your not!

I don't even know what Maura's website is...so, nope. I only post here.

:)

Sherlock

[Beyond Belief]

Had the information of sexual mutilation been given to the public early on, many wouldn have started paying attention to the absconded sexual molesters. Had a site been set up like the Jessica Lunsford website there would had been an army of posters sending emails, faxes, etc. to stores, malls, campgrounds, etc with the posters of these absconded molesters. Perhaps this would have ended sooner. Failing to make public any crime that smells of a molester is putting the public in danger.


WS got this information through rumors coming from the Coeur d Alene area. The post was on June 24. WS had discussions of this being a sexual molester on June 25. There has to be more organization when crimes like this happen and the public needs more information right up front.

My heart is breaking for little Dylan.
My opinion only spoken through my tears.

[Sherlock]

Sorry to have to tell you Sherlock, but there are pedophiles on CTV who don't want to be good, and their interest in missing persons is prurient.


Awwww, but Websleuths is NOT CTV! At Websleuths, people ARE good and I'm certain that none of the registered posters are pedophiles. :) :slap:

Sherlock

[kline]

I must have missed the info on sexual mutilation...this is confirmed?

It certainly would have put everyones perspective in a different focus as far as perception about what kind of crime this was from the beginning.

[Beyond Belief]

Remours from post june 24.
'''''
I thought maybe I would post some information that I have heard around locally and that may not be covered in the media.
· There is still a police officer that is posted 24 hours a day at the head of the Groene driveway. Last week for 4 days in a row there was a gold-colored unmarked chevy truck with a long (maybe 20ft.) unmarked, covered utility trailer parked at the Groene home (during the day) perhaps gathering..............?
· Rumor, heard second hand: The Idaho Dept. of Health and Welfare had been in the home numerous times (recently) investigating possible neglect and sexual abuse (please know that this is a rumor, reliability on a 1-10, I would say 5)
· Rumor, heard second hand: Slade Groene was the worst tortured of the three. LE believe that he was the first to be tortured perhaps even while Brenda and Mark were forced to watch. He was sexually mutulated. (as was Mark) (reliability on a 1-10, I would say 8) Along those lines.....I have heard through the educ. community that Slade was a sick kid, who had some real odd fascinations. (reliablility maybe a 5)."""

[IdahoMom]

I have personal connections to so many places in this tragedy its like"Why couldnt I have known? I would have done something.
Why couldnt I have seen Them? I would have recognized Shasta in a heartbeat.I would have done anything to save them just like my own children." *sigh* Its crazy I know.
But six weeks man.Six weeks.
Unfortunately I suspect Im probably not the only one to feel this way.
You're not. :(

[mysteriew]

From what I have read today, Duncan was in the area- but more in the St. Regis area a month ago. (Before or after the murders, I am not sure.) After the murders, the kids were taken to some very remote campsites.
So the night that Shasta was in the gas station and in the diner, may very well have been her first time around people since being kidnapped.
There was a period of about a hour difference between when Shasta was in the gas station and when she was in the diner. It is about an hour drive. Any ideas or guesses as to where they were in between?


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/07/06/affidavit_details_abuse_in_idaho_abduction/

[IdahoMom]

Remours from post june 24.
'''''
I thought maybe I would post some information that I have heard around locally and that may not be covered in the media.
· There is still a police officer that is posted 24 hours a day at the head of the Groene driveway. Last week for 4 days in a row there was a gold-colored unmarked chevy truck with a long (maybe 20ft.) unmarked, covered utility trailer parked at the Groene home (during the day) perhaps gathering..............?
· Rumor, heard second hand: The Idaho Dept. of Health and Welfare had been in the home numerous times (recently) investigating possible neglect and sexual abuse (please know that this is a rumor, reliability on a 1-10, I would say 5)
· Rumor, heard second hand: Slade Groene was the worst tortured of the three. LE believe that he was the first to be tortured perhaps even while Brenda and Mark were forced to watch. He was sexually mutulated. (as was Mark) (reliability on a 1-10, I would say 8) Along those lines.....I have heard through the educ. community that Slade was a sick kid, who had some real odd fascinations. (reliablility maybe a 5)."""
No offense, but...I think all of that is BS! They're DEAD and they cannot challenge the veracity of those ANONYMOUS accusations!!!
People posted left and right they thought this was a drug debt being settled, etc. Turns out- it probably had nothing to do with drugs. There are sickos all over the 'net that get off on talking trash about victims...I have seen it done in every case-including Laci's.
The other thing about the drugs----many drugs take awhile to leave your body, hence the TRACES found in Brenda and Mark. Brenda was trying to clean her act up- I choose to give her the benefit of the doubt.
My second oldest sister has had drug problems for years. She has been "clean" for a long time now. That said, she is the kindest hearted person I have ever known. She would never hurt a flea- except herself with the drugs. She used drugs to blur hurt. Not making excuses, just saying that there are many people that have done or do drugs that aren't out to harm others.

[mysteriew]

Had the information of sexual mutilation been given to the public early on, many wouldn have started paying attention to the absconded sexual molesters. Had a site been set up like the Jessica Lunsford website there would had been an army of posters sending emails, faxes, etc. to stores, malls, campgrounds, etc with the posters of these absconded molesters. Perhaps this would have ended sooner. Failing to make public any crime that smells of a molester is putting the public in danger.

WS got this information through rumors coming from the Coeur d Alene area. The post was on June 24. WS had discussions of this being a sexual molester on June 25. There has to be more organization when crimes like this happen and the public needs more information right up front.

My heart is breaking for little Dylan.
My opinion only spoken through my tears.

Prior to Shasta being recognized in the diner- no one knew that she and Dylan were taken by an absconded sex offender. And no one had any idea that they were camping in the area. Although I do believe LE made mention a couple of times that they wanted people in the area to remain alert and to keep an eye out for them. So I suspect they may have considered the idea, but that is a large area. Also, Duncan was camping in very remote areas. I suspect that his camping was not documented. In other words, though he was camping in a national forest- he probably didn't register.

[Beyond Belief]

Prior to Shasta being recognized in the diner- no one knew that she and Dylan were taken by an absconded sex offender. And no one had any idea that they were camping in the area. Although I do believe LE made mention a couple of times that they wanted people in the area to remain alert and to keep an eye out for them. So I suspect they may have considered the idea, but that is a large area. Also, Duncan was camping in very remote areas. I suspect that his camping was not documented. In other words, though he was camping in a national forest- he probably didn't register.
There was an interview with people who owned a campground last night. They didn't recognize them, but they were there. I think I saw i on Fox last night. I think they said the FBI showed up there. its the sexual predators photos they need to be circulated if a serious crime has commited and theres evidence pointing toward that direction.

[Beyond Belief]

No offense, but...I think all of that is BS! They're DEAD and they cannot challenge the veracity of those ANONYMOUS accusations!!!
People posted left and right they thought this was a drug debt being settled, etc. Turns out- it probably had nothing to do with drugs. There are sickos all over the 'net that get off on talking trash about victims...I have seen it done in every case-including Laci's.
The other thing about the drugs----many drugs take awhile to leave your body, hence the TRACES found in Brenda and Mark. Brenda was trying to clean her act up- I choose to give her the benefit of the doubt.
My second oldest sister has had drug problems for years. She has been "clean" for a long time now. That said, she is the kindest hearted person I have ever known. She would never hurt a flea- except herself with the drugs. She used drugs to blur hurt. Not making excuses, just saying that there are many people that have done or do drugs that aren't out to harm others.This was in answer to post #119
This was just a reprint of some information that was supplied back on June 24. I have no opinion on it whatsoever and especially on drugs. Its fyi. Right now I am involved in hurricanes. Again! :doh:

[TaylorJ4]

The fact that Mark and Slade were sexually mutilated would have made me think a sexual predator had something to do with these murders and that the missing children were possibly taken for sexual reasons. Slade was only 13...why would drug-related murderers sexually mutilate him? I know the police have to keep certain information quiet during an investigation but there were two children out there being abused (and one of them murdered) during this time...

Shjannon

[IdahoMom]

This was in answer to post #119
This was just a reprint of some information that was supplied back on June 24. I have no opinion on it whatsoever and especially on drugs. Its fyi. Right now I am involved in hurricanes. Again! :doh:
I know, Beyond. I know you didn't say it.:truce:

[IdahoMom]

The fact that Mark and Slade were sexually mutilated would have made me think a sexual predator had something to do with these murders and that the missing children were possibly taken for sexual reasons.

But LE has not confirmed that internet rumor.

[Beyond Belief]

The fact that Mark and Slade were sexually mutilated would have made me think a sexual predator had something to do with these murders and that the missing children were possibly taken for sexual reasons. Slade was only 13...why would drug-related murderers sexually mutilate him? I know the police have to keep certain information quiet during an investigation but there were two children out there being abused (and one of them murdered) during this time...

Shjannon
I do too. I was searching the molesters even though it wasn't pointing that way because of our lack of knowledge, but had the photos been put out there, maybe someone would have seen it. They had to go bye food somewhere.

[Beyond Belief]

But LE has not confirmed that internet rumor.
I am so upset. I wanted that little boy to come home too.

[IdahoMom]

I am so upset. I wanted that little boy to come home too.
Me too. The bad thing is, everytime I think of him, I picture what he endured. That makes me very, very sad.

[mysteriew]

Caution, pretty gross thinking here
Ok, I have been thinking about this since LE announced that "remains have been found". And they have stated "the remains are thought to be Dylan". I don't know anything about decomp....... but if Dylan was alive when he was taken from his home on 051505.......if he was repeatedly molested, he would have been alive for a period of time after that. Would decomp have been so advanced as to prevent identification of the body? Granted we don't know where the remains were left (in a shelter, buried, or out in the open). But would decomp have been enough to prevent id? Are we going to be hearing something worse about Dylan?

[PrayersForMaura]

Caution, pretty gross thinking here
Ok, I have been thinking about this since LE announced that "remains have been found". And they have stated "the remains are thought to be Dylan". I don't know anything about decomp....... but if Dylan was alive when he was taken from his home on 051505.......if he was repeatedly molested, he would have been alive for a period of time after that. Would decomp have been so advanced as to prevent identification of the body? Granted we don't know where the remains were left (in a shelter, buried, or out in the open). But would decomp have been enough to prevent id? Are we going to be hearing something worse about Dylan?
I, too, was wondering about this. Remains? Remains were found? Why not "body" was found? It was 6 weeks ago and Dylan was kept alive for a while. Would his body really decompose that quickly in 6 weeks where it would now be considered "remains"? My boyfriend thought "remains" was an odd choice of words, which got me on this path of thinking.
I am very afraid that Dylan was tortured or dismembered. I am hoping I am very wrong :(

[mysteriew]

I don't suppose anyone has heard anything of the autopsy yet have they? Any idea if they will make a statement about it?

[Rle7]

I don't suppose anyone has heard anything of the autopsy yet have they? Any idea if they will make a statement about it?
I heard those results won't be available until next week.

[Tom'sGirl]

I heard those results won't be available until next week.
Thanks Rle, that is a long time and I wonder why?

DNA from the bones I would think would determine if it were Dylan or not, which doesn't take that long.

It makes me believe that they're waiting until ALL forencic data is compiled and possible cause of death........JMO

[mysteriew]

Thanks Rle, that is a long time and I wonder why?

DNA from the bones I would think would determine if it were Dylan or not, which doesn't take that long.

It makes me believe that they're waiting until ALL forencic data is compiled and possible cause of death........JMO

I read somewhere that the DNA test could be in as soon as Thurs or Fri. The testing is being done at Quantico by FBI.

[Tom'sGirl]

I read somewhere that the DNA test could be in as soon as Thurs or Fri. The testing is being done at Quantico by FBI.
Lets hope so mys!

[ISPTRAX]

What is taking so long to id if that's Dylan or not???!!!!! :banghead:

[Rle7]

What is taking so long to id if that's Dylan or not???!!!!! :banghead:
Authorities said they believe Dylan is dead. They expect DNA tests of human remains found at a rural campsite in western Montana on Monday will confirm their theory.

Results of those tests could be back late today.

http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2005/07/07/news/news01.txt

We should know by tomorrow.

[Wayne]

Authorities said they believe Dylan is dead. They expect DNA tests of human remains found at a rural campsite in western Montana on Monday will confirm their theory.

Results of those tests could be back late today.

http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2005/07/07/news/news01.txt

We should know by tomorrow.
As awful as this may sound, there is the 11-yo boy (Richard Lee Haynes) who vanished from his Washington state home (Kittitas) in September 2004 who has not been found. He lived along I-90 east of Ellensburg Washington - about 100-miles west of Spokane. I wonder if the remains could be his and Duncan told Shasta the bones were Dylan's?

[CaliKid]

Isn't this area pretty hot this time of year? I heard that heat speeds up the decomp process.

[Shazzie]

As awful as this may sound, there is the 11-yo boy (Richard Lee Haynes) who vanished from his Washington state home (Kittitas) in September 2004 who has not been found. He lived along I-90 east of Ellensburg Washington - about 100-miles west of Spokane. I wonder if the remains could be his and Duncan told Shasta the bones were Dylan's?We will know very soon if the remains are Dylan's. If the answer is yes, this will be a moot question.

[PrayersForMaura]

Isn't this area pretty hot this time of year? I heard that heat speeds up the decomp process.
There was a lady missing in Belleville IL for 5 days and the people who found her body along the road yesterday said it was already decomposing.
:(

I guess a body decomposes fast outdoors from being exposed to the elements (animals, sun, rain, insects, etc)

[close_enough]

Thanks Rle, that is a long time and I wonder why?

DNA from the bones I would think would determine if it were Dylan or not, which doesn't take that long.

It makes me believe that they're waiting until ALL forencic data is compiled and possible cause of death........JMO

i agree Tom'sGirl.....i would think they already know if it's Dylan or not, considering they said, earlier, that it would take 3 days....i would say they're waiting to get all their "ducks in a row", so they can announce it's Dylan, & charge Duncan w/murder...

[Shazzie]

Caution, pretty gross thinking here
Ok, I have been thinking about this since LE announced that "remains have been found". And they have stated "the remains are thought to be Dylan". I don't know anything about decomp....... but if Dylan was alive when he was taken from his home on 051505.......if he was repeatedly molested, he would have been alive for a period of time after that. Would decomp have been so advanced as to prevent identification of the body? Granted we don't know where the remains were left (in a shelter, buried, or out in the open). But would decomp have been enough to prevent id? Are we going to be hearing something worse about Dylan?Caution, more gross thinking here...
At first I wondered about the same kinds of things, like how long someone would have to be dead for decomposition to be so advanced that their remains were unidentifiable. Then I heard a news report that said that the remains were found in a remote wooded area where they had been exposed to the elements for some time, including animals. When I heard the word "animals," that told me everything I needed to know. :eek:

From a website on Montana wildlife:

In Montana, everyone has a few wild neighbors. We're not talking about the typical wild neighbors who throw all-night parties; we're referring to antelope, elk, moose, mountain goats, bighorn sheep, eagles, trumpeter swans, bears, wolves, and more. In fact, Montana has a greater variety of wildlife than any other state in the lower 48.

This site also mentions moutnain lions and coyotes. Need I say more? :(

http://wildlife.visitmt.com/watch.htm

[PrayersForMaura]

Caution, more gross thinking here...
At first I wondered about the same kinds of things, like how long someone would have to be dead for decomposition to be so advanced that their remains were unidentifiable. Then I heard a news report that said that the remains were found in a remote wooded area where they had been exposed to the elements for some time, including animals. When I heard the word "animals," that told me everything I needed to know. :eek:
I was just posting the same thing earlier about being exposed to the elements.

The word "remains" was a giveaway to my boyfriend initially and then me that what was located was not a body intact :(

[close_enough]

Me too. The bad thing is, everytime I think of him, I picture what he endured. That makes me very, very sad.

same here....what's even worse (well, i don't know if it's worse) is that Shasta saw him being raped/molested :furious:

[Tom'sGirl]

same here....what's even worse (well, i don't know if it's worse) is that Shasta saw him being raped/molested :furious:
I wonder if maybe the LE are waiting for the final forencic results on the remains, and then they will release all that Shasta had told them so far.....

[mysteriew]

I wonder if maybe the LE are waiting for the final forencic results on the remains, and then they will release all that Shasta had told them so far.....

I think they have pretty much told us all they will tell us about what Shasta said. Next will be the DNA test and the autopsy (and possibly a statement re: what Shasta said happened to cause Dylan's death, but that will only be if the autopsy proves the statement) and the autopsy. Next time we will get major info is when the case goes to trial.

[mysteriew]

As awful as this may sound, there is the 11-yo boy (Richard Lee Haynes) who vanished from his Washington state home (Kittitas) in September 2004 who has not been found. He lived along I-90 east of Ellensburg Washington - about 100-miles west of Spokane. I wonder if the remains could be his and Duncan told Shasta the bones were Dylan's?

Where was Duncan in Sept. 2004 and what was he doing? He had family and various friends(?) there, and we know he visited several places in Washington. I wonder when college started in 2004, and did he visit Washington in 2004? Could Kittitas be one of the ones that he mentioned that society didn't know about?

[close_enough]

I think they have pretty much told us all they will tell us about what Shasta said. Next will be the DNA test and the autopsy (and possibly a statement re: what Shasta said happened to cause Dylan's death, but that will only be if the autopsy proves the statement) and the autopsy. Next time we will get major info is when the case goes to trial.

i was going to respond to Tom'sGirl, but you worded it much better than i could...lol

i think we will, however, hear leaks, as in most other cases, though....

[CaliKid]

Where was Duncan in Sept. 2004 and what was he doing? He had family and various friends(?) there, and we know he visited several places in Washington. I wonder when college started in 2004, and did he visit Washington in 2004? Could Kittitas be one of the ones that he mentioned that society didn't know about?
I was wondering the same thing. I think LE needs to look long and hard at missing kids along the I-90 route. I also wonder about Brooke Wilberger, even though she's down in Oregon and older than his preferred victim.

[dannyodie]

Where was Duncan in Sept. 2004 and what was he doing? He had family and various friends(?) there, and we know he visited several places in Washington. I wonder when college started in 2004, and did he visit Washington in 2004? Could Kittitas be one of the ones that he mentioned that society didn't know about?
I do not think that the remains that were located are any other than dylan. even if dylan was killed within the first 3 hrs of there ordeal or a week or two later. the remains would not be totally bones in 6 to 7 weeks in that climate. the remains that were found had been eaten on by animals and much of the tissue matter was void, but however, I would bet that the little boy from washington that has not been located could very well be another victim of this duncan fellow. in fact there could be many young boys in the upper north and north west that could be linked to him? le ought to polygraph this monster on some other cases in and around the times he was not in jail. I even wonder if he could be linked to the shawn hornbeck case in missouri?

[Wayne]

I was wondering the same thing. I think LE needs to look long and hard at missing kids along the I-90 route. I also wonder about Brooke Wilberger, even though she's down in Oregon and older than his preferred victim.
There is also Sophia Juarez - a 5-yo who disappeared in February 2003. She lived in Kennewick, Washington.

But I keep thinking about the Richard Lee Haynes and Duncan's preference for boys over girls. He was last seen in his home - when his parents went out leaving him alone.

I recall reading a geocaching post on Sunday of Duncan's in October 2004 (not the blog but geocaching) which included R-L-H in referencing right-left-handed (which I found odd). The young boy Richard Lee Haynes (R-L-H) disappeared on a Sunday September 12 2004. IMO, yet another similarity - that Shasta and Dylan were taken on a Sunday evening. Had Richard Lee Haynes not been home alone that Sunday evening and Duncan is tied to Richard Lee Haynes disappearance, IMO Duncan's evil demons may have struck sooner.

[Wayne]

If the DNA testing on the remains found in Montana prove not to be Dylan Groene, what is next for LE? Is LE going to search the national forest?

The way I feel right now, I'd like just 5-minutes alone with Duncan and I'll get him to speak about his victims' whereabouts.

[kk's mom]

There is also Sophia Juarez - a 5-yo who disappeared in February 2003. She lived in Kennewick, Washington.

But I keep thinking about the Richard Lee Haynes and Duncan's preference for boys over girls. He was last seen in his home - when his parents went out leaving him alone.

I recall reading a geocaching post on Sunday of Duncan's in October 2004 (not the blog but geocaching) which included R-L-H in referencing right-left-handed (which I found odd). The young boy Richard Lee Haynes (R-L-H) disappeared on a Sunday September 12 2004. IMO, yet another similarity - that Shasta and Dylan were taken on a Sunday evening. Had Richard Lee Haynes not been home alone that Sunday evening and Duncan is tied to Richard Lee Haynes disappearance, IMO Duncan's evil demons may have struck sooner.

That's eerie Wayne. You should alert the authorities on this. Maybe it won't add up to anything, but this is an unsolved case and the RLH is very telling.

[dannyodie]

That's eerie Wayne. You should alert the authorities on this. Maybe it won't add up to anything, but this is an unsolved case and the RLH is very telling.
I couldn't agree more. wayne it might or might not be anything, but If I were you I would at least provide it as a tip

[kahskye]

There is also Sophia Juarez - a 5-yo who disappeared in February 2003. She lived in Kennewick, Washington.

But I keep thinking about the Richard Lee Haynes and Duncan's preference for boys over girls. He was last seen in his home - when his parents went out leaving him alone.

I recall reading a geocaching post on Sunday of Duncan's in October 2004 (not the blog but geocaching) which included R-L-H in referencing right-left-handed (which I found odd). The young boy Richard Lee Haynes (R-L-H) disappeared on a Sunday September 12 2004. IMO, yet another similarity - that Shasta and Dylan were taken on a Sunday evening. Had Richard Lee Haynes not been home alone that Sunday evening and Duncan is tied to Richard Lee Haynes disappearance, IMO Duncan's evil demons may have struck sooner.I'm sure most have read this, but here's his blog Aug 2004. Richard Haynes went missing in Sept. 2004:

Fear
¶ 7:30 AM (http://fifthnail.blogspot.com/2004/08/fear.php)

Even though the chances of a child being abducted by a stranger are less than the same child being struck by lightening, or bitten by a shark, children today are preoccupied with that fear. Fear is the beginning of isolation, confusion and hate. All governments know that the biggest threat to their power over the people is unity amongst the people. Governments throughout history have sought ways to disrupt that unity. Our government is the master of this technique. It is routine and even expected for our children to turn in their parents if they even suspect they are not conforming. Our children are taught in schools, "Do not talk to strangers, they are dangerous and want to hurt you." "If any adult makes you feel uncomfortable, run away and report them immediately." "The police are your friends."
What a great way to keep our children from learning new things and thinking for themselves. The last thing the government wants you to do is think, the first is to feel...Fear!
Posted by: Joe
(1) comments (http://fifthnail.blogspot.com/2004/08/lonely-dreams.php)
First Line of Defense
¶ 2:21 AM (http://fifthnail.blogspot.com/2004/08/first-line-of-defense.php)

I decided to hire an attorney to help in situations where I am being investigated just because I am on the "List of usual suspects." It cost me $500 out of pocket, but I think it could end up being well worth it for my own peace of mind. The attorney already saved me the headache of having to deal with the police who called the other week and wanted me to drive 45 miles just so he could eliminate me as a suspect. What a hassle, I also spoke with this attorney about the possiblity of filing a harasment law suit.
Posted by: Joe


Maybe I'm reading too much inbetween the lines, but maybe Joe's demons are already wanting to surface. Why hire an attorney if you're not guilty?

[i.b.nora]

Here is a more accurate account (according to Cody's grandfather who posted on this forum a couple of times) of the story of Cody. He wasn't left home alone. The father seems suspicious to me. Nevertheless, I do think authorities should check out the possibility th