Shasta fingers Duncan as her mother etc. Killer

[indigomood]

The two were reported missing after the bodies of their brother, mother and her boyfriend were found in their home. Shasta Groene told investigators Duncan, a stranger, was also their killer.

Sgt. Brad Maskell told reporters that according to the girl's account, Duncan bound the family in ligatures after entering the home. She and Dylan were carried out of the house and placed in the pickup Duncan was driving.

After switching vehicles, Duncan took the two children to a campsite in Montana, the first of what would be several such sites. The two were repeatedly molested, Shasta told investigators.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161538,00.html

[dragonfly]

It is a miracle this little Shasta was still alive considering what she knew and is now telling LE.

[lady-eowyn]

I've run out of words... :(

[kk's mom]

I just don't know what to say. Am crying and need to regain my composure.
How utterly sad.

[close_enough]

I've run out of words... :(

gosh...me too :(

we just got home, & thought i would check in real quick...

[close_enough]

It is a miracle this little Shasta was still alive considering what she knew and is now telling LE.

very true!!

[scifier]

The two were reported missing after the bodies of their brother, mother and her boyfriend were found in their home. Shasta Groene told investigators Duncan, a stranger, was also their killer.

Sgt. Brad Maskell told reporters that according to the girl's account, Duncan bound the family in ligatures after entering the home. She and Dylan were carried out of the house and placed in the pickup Duncan was driving.

After switching vehicles, Duncan took the two children to a campsite in Montana, the first of what would be several such sites. The two were repeatedly molested, Shasta told investigators.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161538,00.html
He must have planned this, as he was driving the same red jeep he didnt return after renting it in Minnesota when he got arrested. Where did the pickup come from? Was it the same one that was found abandoned nearby? Why no evidence on it, fingerprints, etc. This does not sound random as he would have to then drive back to his jeep, etc. How would he know about the family there? He would have had to stake it out a little while, I would guess. Just some thoughts.

[IdahoMom]

I believe her, but how would he have pulled that off without an accomplice?

The man is depraved. He should be exterminated!!!!!!!!:bang:

[close_enough]

He must have planned this, as he was driving the same red jeep he didnt return after renting it in Minnesota when he got arrested. Where did the pickup come from? Was it the same one that was found abandoned nearby? Why no evidence on it, fingerprints, etc. This does not sound random as he would have to then drive back to his jeep, etc. How would he know about the family there? He would have had to stake it out a little while, I would guess. Just some thoughts.

it wasn't random...i believe he did stake the Groene house out, in advance...

[fran]

I believe her, but how would he have pulled that off without an accomplice?

The man is depraved. He should be exterminated!!!!!!!!:bang:

He might have had a gun. But, IMO, the reason he beat the victims to death rather than shoot them was because of his 'rage.' His anger at society. Anger at his family. Anger at LE.

IMO, he may have had a gun to 'control,' but his weapon of choice were his own hands.

This guy is a monster! :sick:

JMHO
fran

[annie mae]

This animal should be put to DEATH in the same manner as Tim McVeigh. The People Of The United States should witness this sum-bag die, right on the T.V. Just my :twocents:

[Wayne]

He must have planned this, as he was driving the same red jeep he didnt return after renting it in Minnesota when he got arrested. Where did the pickup come from? Was it the same one that was found abandoned nearby? Why no evidence on it, fingerprints, etc. This does not sound random as he would have to then drive back to his jeep, etc. How would he know about the family there? He would have had to stake it out a little while, I would guess. Just some thoughts.
The pickup was from Minnesota or North Dakota. The plates were from Missouri (I believe they were reported stolen 5/13/2005) and some vehicle tags from Wyoming.

I have struggled with how Duncan came to choose / select the Groene family, too. Yet I can't help but think geocaching somehow plays into this ... Maybe the family tried it, did the photo cache, and then it was posted on the geocaching website? Just a thought...

[Wayne]

This animal should be put to DEATH in the same manner as Tim McVeigh. The People Of The United States should witness this sum-bag die, right on the T.V. Just my :twocents:
Yes - this animal should be put down.

Watching him die - interesting thought. But that is too simple - too subtle. How about watching the guards strap him to the gurny and the medics surgically insert the IVs without annesthesia?

Yet, I sense we'll see none of that. Likely to be declared by some judge somewhere as cruel and unusual punishment...

[Nore]

Yes - this animal should be put down.

Watching him die - interesting thought. But that is too simple - too subtle. How about watching the guards strap him to the gurny and the medics surgically insert the IVs without annesthesia?

Yet, I sense we'll see none of that. Likely to be declared by some judge somewhere as cruel and unusual punishment...
---------------------

Boy do I agree! There should be no trial,just death piped in via tv to any jail with perves in it.I sincerely wish a set of parents of a victim could just beat him to death inch by inch!!

[annie mae]

You are right Wayne and what you have said is so true. annie

[scifier]

The pickup was from Minnesota or North Dakota. The plates were from Missouri (I believe they were reported stolen 5/13/2005) and some vehicle tags from Wyoming.

I have struggled with how Duncan came to choose / select the Groene family, too. Yet I can't help but think geocaching somehow plays into this ... Maybe the family tried it, did the photo cache, and then it was posted on the geocaching website? Just a thought...
I believe the stolen plates from missouri were on the red jeep. I dont think at this time they have either released info on the whereabouts of this pickup truck. It was stated Shasta said that they (her and Dylan) were put into a pickup truck then driven a sort distance and switched to the Red Jeep. As to the Geocaching thing, I think that Shasta and Dylan had visited and played with families and kids at the Wolf Lodge Campground. As there are quite a few people who travel the country in this way staying at these types of places it would seem probable that they could be part of this Geocaching thing. Im sorry but I dont have enough info on this to make an educated assumption (i'll do some research tonight). Anyway, someone might have taken pictures of these kids and said something about them living nearby. In this sickos mind maybe he fantasized over them. Who knows. Until this freak starts talking I guess we wont know for sure. Maybe LE will gain some insight from his laptop.

[SauerKraut]

He must have planned this, as he was driving the same red jeep he didnt return after renting it in Minnesota when he got arrested. Where did the pickup come from? Was it the same one that was found abandoned nearby? Why no evidence on it, fingerprints, etc. This does not sound random as he would have to then drive back to his jeep, etc. How would he know about the family there? He would have had to stake it out a little while, I would guess. Just some thoughts.

That pickup truck, the one the neighbor had towed away??? Remember they never answered that. The cops had been called out about an abandoned vehicle. Oh God, this makes me sick. How could he have done this alone, how. How did he fight off three big people and two kids?????

[mysteriew]

Oh God no, not another baby! http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/sad/tears.gif How many kids will be taken before we can get the courts and lawmakers to understand! One child dead, and one child who has suffered with losing her mother, her stepmother, two brothers, and her innocence! In such a horrible way! One of the kids could have been destined to be president, go to the moon, cure aids, or save another's life. Now we will never know what they may have done. Because of another sick, peverted monster! And not just a monster, but one that has been convicted before! I don't know which I hate worse right now, the sicko pond scum or the sicko court that let him out!

[SauerKraut]

Oh God no, not another baby! http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/sad/tears.gif How many kids will be taken before we can get the courts and lawmakers to understand! One child dead, and one child who has suffered with losing her mother, her stepmother, two brothers, and her innocence! In such a horrible way! One of the kids could have been destined to be president, go to the moon, cure aids, or save another's life. Now we will never know what they may have done. Because of another sick, peverted monster! And not just a monster, but one that has been convicted before! I don't know which I hate worse right now, the sicko pond scum or the sicko court that let him out!

I don't understand how these people get out. I wish the courts and laws would focus more on people like this than other types of crime. Not that I'm advocating any of it, but the police sometimes focus on the wrong things, IMO.

I hope to God Shasta can make it through her long life ahead of her. This is just terrible. Something about this crime just tugged at me from the very beginning, maybe because they didn't seem well-off but they seemed like a happy family nonetheless.

So have they confirmed anything with these remains being Dylan? How did he kill me at the campsite? I can't imagine this, I hope Shasta did not see it.

[kahskye]

All I can say is that I'm a BAD websleuther! I was really off w/ this one. I honestly thought the murders were drug related and done so as to send a message to others. I thought Brenda got into something too deep and had her life, Mark's and Slade's taken because of it. I would have never guessed these murders were done to get the children. This Duncan is the sickest of sick! Understand what I'm saying here, I don't want to see any child abducted, ever! But, there are children running around unsupervised everyday which are easy prey to a child molester. It was too easy for Duncan to kidnap just any child, he chose to take it to a higher level and take out a family THEN take the children, talk about balls! All I can say is I'm totally sick about what has happend to poor little Shasta, even sicker about Dylan, especially is the remains prove to be his.

I agree that this creep wanted to exit w/ a bang and probably was planning to take Shasta's life w/ his. He wanted media coverage, he got it and I think more is yet to unfold.

[SauerKraut]

All I can say is that I'm a BAD websleuther! I was really off w/ this one. I honestly thought the murders were drug related and done so as to send a message to others. I thought Brenda got into something too deep and had her life, Mark's and Slade's taken because of it. I would have never guessed these murders were done to get the children. This Duncan is the sickest of sick! Understand what I'm saying here, I don't want to see any child abducted, ever! But, there are children running around unsupervised everyday which are easy prey to a child molester. It was too easy for Duncan to kidnap just any child, he chose to take it to a higher level and take out a family THEN take the children, talk about balls! All I can say is I'm totally sick about what has happend to poor little Shasta, even sicker about Dylan, especially is the remains prove to be his.

I agree that this creep wanted to exit w/ a bang and probably was planning to take Shasta's life w/ his. He wanted media coverage, he got it and I think more is yet to unfold.

This guy had to have been watching them that weekend. I bet from the campground, heck he could have been driving on 90, which seems to be his route of choice, and seen them from there, the house is right there!

I think we're all bad Websleuthers on this one so don't feel badly. Because of the violent nature of the crimes, we assumed that it was a drug rage, but this guy has to have some serious mental issues, like physiological. Bipolar?

But you know, didn't police say there were drugs in their systems but no traces found at the scene. Some of the things the police said, I can't remember right now, but it made it look like they were targeted for drugs, or a robbery.

He must have carried the two little ones outside, left them there, then went back in and killed the family. This is all so bizarre, this guy has more than one demon in that head.

[Shelayne]

I pray that those precious children were taken out of the house before he continued on his murderous rampage. I pray that they never saw their family being bludgeoned to death.

I am heartbroken for the family. I have no words for the agony Shasta has experienced in her little life. This is beyond anything her little shoulders should have to bear. She is one amazing little girl to be so strong.

[SauerKraut]

I pray that those precious children were taken out of the house before he continued on his murderous rampage. I pray that they never saw their family being bludgeoned to death.

I am heartbroken for the family. I have no words for the agony Shasta has experienced in her little life. This is beyond anything her little shoulders should have to bear. She is one amazing little girl to be so strong.

I don't know if all of you saw the pictures of her in the hospital with her father yesterday? The first thing I thought of was, 'she looks like Elizabeth Smart!'

Maybe it is the sadness behind the big smile and wide eyes. But besides that, physically, to me it's almost frightening how much they look alike.

[CaliKid]

The two were reported missing after the bodies of their brother, mother and her boyfriend were found in their home. Shasta Groene told investigators Duncan, a stranger, was also their killer.

Sgt. Brad Maskell told reporters that according to the girl's account, Duncan bound the family in ligatures after entering the home. She and Dylan were carried out of the house and placed in the pickup Duncan was driving.

After switching vehicles, Duncan took the two children to a campsite in Montana, the first of what would be several such sites. The two were repeatedly molested, Shasta told investigators.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161538,00.html
I saw this on the tv. I think we're going to find out that the remains in Wyoming are Dylan's. Shasta must be a very strong little girl to have survived this monster.

All I can say is that I'm a BAD websleuther! I was really off w/ this one. I honestly thought the murders were drug related and done so as to send a message to others. I thought Brenda got into something too deep and had her life, Mark's and Slade's taken because of it. I would have never guessed these murders were done to get the children.

Yeah, we really missed this one. But in our defense, who would've believed someone creating this massacre in order to kidnap two children he didn't know?

[ewwwinteresting]

Yes - this animal should be put down.

Watching him die - interesting thought. But that is too simple - too subtle. How about watching the guards strap him to the gurny and the medics surgically insert the IVs without annesthesia?

Yet, I sense we'll see none of that. Likely to be declared by some judge somewhere as cruel and unusual punishment...
But let's not forget about first throwing him into the prison population (no solitude) and have done to him over and over and over and over and over and over and over again what he did to Shasta and Dylan!

[kline]

As an Idaho Correctional officer I wish I could say that spending the rest of his life in this system would aproximate anything resembling justice,but beleive me I cant.

He will live a quite safe and comfortable life here,program,ingratiate himself with staff and while away his evening hours reliving the atrocities he commited for his own pleasure over and over.
There has got to be another answer.This society has got to stop putting the rights of these monsters over the safety of our children.Shasta and Dylan deserve far better then what they are going to get from the Justice system as it now exists.Even if he gets the death penalty Idaho is NEVER going to execute him in our lifetime.
He'll set there become a legal expert take the moral high ground in his mind and wait for 20 years until some legal ruling gets handed down or find some percieved error in his prosecution and get his sentence overturned or reduced.Also I can assure you in protective custody he is not going to suffer the Rape he visited on those two poor children. Im glad I believe in Divine punishment.

[lady-eowyn]

I believe her, but how would he have pulled that off without an accomplice?

The man is depraved. He should be exterminated!!!!!!!!:bang:

One thought I came up with was that he used the kids to get the adults and Slade to comply. What if the kids were outside and he snatched them and threatened them to get the adults to let him tie them up in guise of a robbery. How many serial killers have we heard about over the years that tell their victims they aren't going to kill them, tie them up and then do just that. It's still kind of hard to imagine how he could tie all three up while holding one or both of the children hostage. I imagine he had a gun, he could have certainly had it aimed on one of the children and tied their hands with one hand since he did use those zip ties, correct? That's just my theory. If he did have an accomplish I'm sure Shasta will tell the LE everything she can. She's an amazing little girl..

[Usher737]

That pickup truck, the one the neighbor had towed away??? Remember they never answered that. The cops had been called out about an abandoned vehicle. Oh God, this makes me sick. How could he have done this alone, how. How did he fight off three big people and two kids?????
First of all, this guy is pure evil! I doubt he ever tried to get help! He needs to be "put down" immediately! My heart aches for that poor girl! I hope she is mentally able to recover and lead a happy life!!

Next, I have been thinking about the above quote. I think he came into the house after midnight. I think he watched the BBQ all day from the woods or somewhere close by. Brenda and Mark were tired, perhaps intoxicated, and had drugs in their system. I would bet they were not that difficult to restrain. This left a one on one battle with Slade and if he was able to suprise him or threaten him then he could have been easy as well. I could maybe see 1 other person involved but I think at this point it is unlikely.


This whole thing makes me sick! That SOB should have never been granted bail! I hope that judge realizes what he could have prevented! These monsters must be stopped! They cant be "treated" and 14 years in jail does nothing to sway them, they must be stopped now. There are many good parents and concerned citizens out there that should ban together against these monsters!

[lady-eowyn]

It looks like he did act alone, unless he has someone else hiding out and Shasta didn't see them...I think he used threats and fear to get the family to not fight back.


According to the report, Shasta told Mattos she was asleep in her home May 15 when she was awakened by her mother and "went to living room." It says a man forced the "family in ligatures."

She and Dylan were carried and placed into a pickup truck, removed from the property and later transferred to a Jeep, the report says.

"Was same person she was found with, Joseph Duncan," the report alleges.

She told investigators she had never met Duncan before and that he was the only person involved in the kidnappings.


http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/07/05/idaho.children/index.html

[Wayne]

One thought I came up with was that he used the kids to get the adults and Slade to comply. What if the kids were outside and he snatched them and threatened them to get the adults to let him tie them up in guise of a robbery. How many serial killers have we heard about over the years that tell their victims they aren't going to kill them, tie them up and then do just that. It's still kind of hard to imagine how he could tie all three up while holding one or both of the children hostage. I imagine he had a gun, he could have certainly had it aimed on one of the children and tied their hands with one hand since he did use those zip ties, correct? That's just my theory. If he did have an accomplish I'm sure Shasta will tell the LE everything she can. She's an amazing little girl..
If he had no accomplice (which I find hard to believe) Duncan had to have had training or help of some kind? Perhaps when he was in jail or in prison?

IMO, with Brenda and Mark in their drug-haze, they were more likely to cooperate than to resist.

IMO, this was not random - he had to have chosen the Groene family and planned this assault not just on them but on our society. And that is where I believe he may have had assistance, possibly an accomplice in the planning.

That is my question - how did Duncan select the Groene family? Through the geocaching or other GPS game or his websites? I bet he told Shasta at some point and maybe at some point, she'll reveal it to investigators.

[nanandjim]

The things that I have heard on the news are as follows. Don't know if they are accurate. On one of his websites, he states that because of his family situation and his looks, he (Duncan) was continually molested as a child. He said that he was molested so much that he began to think that it was normal. I really think that his experiences as a child made him what he is today.

Duncan also stated that he wanted to take as many people with him as he could before his life ended (or something like that).

Shasta said that her mother was alive when she was taken from the house. So, could he have tied up the family, telling them that he was there to just to rob them? Then, put the children in the car. Then, gone back inside the house and beat them to death.

This guy has so much rage. It looks like his pattern is to rape boys and direct his rage towards them. I believe that he killed little Dylan in a rage.

I think that Shasta will provide most of the information. Unfortunately, Duncan will probably never tell us how or why this family was chosen.

[angarella]

Can someone explain what geocaching and GPS games mean. I am clueless here.

TIA

[kk's mom]

It was also reported, I believe, that Shasta witnessed the repeated molestation of Dylan.

I'm just so sad about all of this.

[lady-eowyn]

Can someone explain what geocaching and GPS games mean. I am clueless here.

TIA
Geocaching is an outdoor sport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport) that involves the use of a Global Positioning System (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System) ("GPS") receiver to find a "geocache" (or "cache") placed anywhere in the world. A typical cache is a small, waterproof container containing a logbook and "treasure". Geocaching is a unique take on an earlier game called Letterboxing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letterboxing) in that it uses two recent technologies, the GPS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System) and the Internet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet). Participants are called geocachers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocaching

[nanandjim]

This little girl is going to need a lot of therapy. Are there any thoughts as to why Duncan would chance coming back to her hometown when this story is all over the news? Do you think that he wanted to be caught? I can't help but think that he must have.

[lady-eowyn]

That is my question - how did Duncan select the Groene family? Through the geocaching or other GPS game or his websites? I bet he told Shasta at some point and maybe at some point, she'll reveal it to investigators.
I have a feeling that he had been watching Shasta and Dylan from afar and decided that he was going to take them somehow. This is what Couey did with Jessica...watched her from across the street. Unfortunately Duncan is extremely dangerous and filled with rage and went much further than most do. I'd consider him in the rank with violent serial killers.

[LadyLuck]

This is so sad, words fail me. This poor child--

[kahskye]

The pickup was from Minnesota or North Dakota. The plates were from Missouri (I believe they were reported stolen 5/13/2005) and some vehicle tags from Wyoming.

I have struggled with how Duncan came to choose / select the Groene family, too. Yet I can't help but think geocaching somehow plays into this ... Maybe the family tried it, did the photo cache, and then it was posted on the geocaching website? Just a thought...
I wasn't familiar w/ geocaching and found this link if anyone else wants to know more about it:

http://www.geocaching.com/faq/

"What is Geocaching?
Geocaching is an entertaining adventure game for gps users. Participating in a cache hunt is a good way to take advantage of the wonderful features and capability of a gps unit. The basic idea is to have individuals and organizations set up caches all over the world and share the locations of these caches on the internet. GPS users can then use the location coordinates to find the caches. Once found, a cache may provide the visitor with a wide variety of rewards. All the visitor is asked to do is if they get something they should try to leave something for the cache. "


Is it possible that there are organizations out there setting up caches to find children? Did Duncan find these two, take them and (gulp) "try" them and leave Dylan for the next cache and possibly Dylan just never was found? Maybe he was now going to place Shasta somewhere for the next cache and thought of hiding her back by the actual murder site?



"Where are caches found? The location of a cache can be very entertaining indeed. As many say, location, location, location! The location of a cache demonstrates the founder's skill and possibly even daring."


Well, you can't get much more daring that to murder an entire family and take the children. This is scary stuff if this was a game to Duncan.


If the Groene family tried geocaching, wouldn't they need a gps device? Those can run from $100-$1000.



Obviously my opinion which may be really off here . . . ya just don't know.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

As an Idaho Correctional officer I wish I could say that spending the rest of his life in this system would aproximate anything resembling justice,but beleive me I cant.

He will live a quite safe and comfortable life here,program,ingratiate himself with staff and while away his evening hours reliving the atrocities he commited for his own pleasure over and over.
There has got to be another answer.This society has got to stop putting the rights of these monsters over the safety of our children.Shasta and Dylan deserve far better then what they are going to get from the Justice system as it now exists.Even if he gets the death penalty Idaho is NEVER going to execute him in our lifetime.
He'll set there become a legal expert take the moral high ground in his mind and wait for 20 years until some legal ruling gets handed down or find some percieved error in his prosecution and get his sentence overturned or reduced.Also I can assure you in protective custody he is not going to suffer the Rape he visited on those two poor children. Im glad I believe in Divine punishment.


Just had to say, I so agree with every word you posted!

[DEPUTYDAWG]

My heart absolutely aches for Shasta. And my mind just can't "go" to where hers may have been - what she may have endured....

I hope in 10-20 years, we get a small update that she's made it as a happy adult, somehow, someway. May she be blessed with caring, loving, people around her to support her in all that she will need.

[mysteriew]

Duncan was described as relaxed and clean-cut when he stopped at a store in the western Montana logging community of St. Regis more than a month ago for gas and a 12-pack of Bud Light.

He chatted with attendant Jackie Allen for nearly 15 minutes, peppering her with questions about area parks and campgrounds and asking for directions to nearby communities.

Allen said she was "shocked and stunned" to learn that the man she said visited her store was Duncan. "I know people can fool you, but he was a really clean-cut and relaxed guy," Allen said. "It's just kind of shocked me. I still don't know what to think."

Like others in the timber town of about 300 near the Idaho line, Allen had been on the lookout for Dylan and Shasta since they were reported missing six weeks ago.

Posters with their photos hung in nearly every business in town. And though hundreds of tourists pass through every day en route to Glacier National Park, residents watched for any suspicious people or activities.

After Duncan's arrest, business owners meticulously paged through fishing licenses and other records, checking to see if he'd stopped in their establishments.

"You hate for this kind of thing to happen anywhere, but especially for it to happen close to home," said Laura Palmer, a St. Regis gift shop employee and longtime resident.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/07/06/affidavit_details_abuse_in_idaho_abduction/?page=2

[less0305]

I have a feeling this slime ball just happened upon the family by chance.....terrible fate.....being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I think he may have been traveling and happened upon them in a store, gas station, convenient store, Walmart....whatever, and he saw those two children and became fixated on them. I think he followed them to find out where they lived and lo and behold a camp ground nearby. I think he used the campground to stalk them for a couple days....saw the big party, waited until everyone had gone and surprised them in the dead of night. Whole families have been assaulted and killed before by one intruder....BTK would be an example of that. It honestly doesn't seem to take much to intimidate people into not fighting back and going along to keep everyone safe, or so they think. Once he had them hog tied, it wasn't hard to bludgeon them to death. I imagine he went back to the truck with signs of a struggle, disheveled, bloody, and I'm sure Shasta put two and two together....thus, her asking for daddy when she was found. I'm sure the piece of crap took pleasure in telling her "I killed your mommy. You're never going to go home or see her again."

[kk's mom]

My heart absolutely aches for Shasta. And my mind just can't "go" to where hers may have been - what she may have endured....

I hope in 10-20 years, we get a small update that she's made it as a happy adult, somehow, someway. May she be blessed with caring, loving, people around her to support her in all that she will need.

I hope for the same too. I was watching one of the shows last night and they had indicated that Shasta is being interviewed by an expert with LE that deals with children who are victims of horrific crimes such as what she has been through. Only one person is interviewing Shasta. The child victim needs to develop a trusting relationship with this person. Also, her family has been told not to ask her questions about what happened. They just need to love her and support her. Children are very resilient. Looking at the pictures of Shasta with her father after they were reunited, I think she's going to be okay. Not right away, but her future is very promising.

My daughter was molested by a family member when she was 5 years old. She is now 9. Looking at her and talking with her, you would never know that something horrible happened to her 4 years ago. I have one person in LE to thank for that (the detective that she developed a trusting relationship with) and the wonderful therapist that we were assigned to through the D.A.'s office.

[PrayersForMaura]

Shasta is at the age, though, and --- unlike younger kids who may forget what happened to them -- she will most likely always remember...
I can remember back til at least 6 years old and prior to that, I can't remember much.
Every mother's day until she dies, she will think of her mother and what has happened. Every holiday, every birthday of her own, she will remember that bad things happened. Her pain may lessen through the years but it will never go away completely.

I hope and pray she will grow up strong and have a good life and be with people who will love her and treat her right all of her life. She deserves all of that and more

I do not understand why he killed the mother, her boyfriend and Slade. You would think he'd take Slade, too. He may not be as young as Shasta and Dylan but he was still very young. I guess Duncan figured he could manipulate and overpower poor Shasta and Dylan :(

Nothing bad enough in this world that could now happen to Duncan can ever be as bad as what he's done. No amount of ganging up on him in prison, or needles into his skin, or electric shocks can ever match up to what he has done.
This is just horrible.
I can't even begin to fathom what Shasta is feeling and what she's been through for the past 6 weeks. :(

I pray for her and for her family, God rest their souls.

[indigomood]

Shasta is at the age, though, and --- unlike younger kids who may forget what happened to them -- she will most likely always remember...
I can remember back til at least 6 years old and prior to that, I can't remember much.


As much as I hope that SG will survive this ordeal with an intact psyche, I can't help but think of the consequences the murder of Shirley Vian (BTK) had on her children, namely Steve Relford. By all accounts this man is a loser yet I still feel so deeply for his lot in life...
In the picture of him at the link, I see pain and sorrow all these years later. I pray for peace for him and all those that suffer at the hands of sick psychopaths.

Son of BTK victim still haunted
Man says he witnessed mother's slaying as a 5-year-old ...

http://www-cgi.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/01/btk.relford/

Also the surviving Otero son (Charlie?) served time in prison with rage and anger management problems that surfaced years later after the attacks. It is so sad... the ripple effect it has had on the lives of innocents, who often turn to drug and etoh to numb the pain.

[PrayersForMaura]

I know some people can remember back to things that happened when they were 3 or 4.

A friend of mine witnessed his mother being murdered when he was 5 years old. He was hiding in a closet in his home and peeked out and saw this man who broke into their little, run-down apartment ... he saw the whole thing and to this day he has never forgotten. He turned out to be a good guy, but he definitely had a bit of a wall around him that kept people from getting too close to him. :(

I think Shasta will be scarred for life but hopefully she can find some strength to deal with this and lead a happy life. I don't know what I would do in her shoes at her age. I'd like to think I was a strong child, but we all react differently to any situation. What she's been through, most people will never experience even as an adult. I feel so sorry for her, I can't even put it into words how I feel.... :(

[kk's mom]

Shasta is at the age, though, and --- unlike younger kids who may forget what happened to them -- she will most likely always remember...
I can remember back til at least 6 years old and prior to that, I can't remember much.
Every mother's day until she dies, she will think of her mother and what has happened. Every holiday, every birthday of her own, she will remember that bad things happened. Her pain may lessen through the years but it will never go away completely.

I hope and pray she will grow up strong and have a good life and be with people who will love her and treat her right all of her life. She deserves all of that and more

I do not understand why he killed the mother, her boyfriend and Slade. You would think he'd take Slade, too. He may not be as young as Shasta and Dylan but he was still very young. I guess Duncan figured he could manipulate and overpower poor Shasta and Dylan :(

Nothing bad enough in this world that could now happen to Duncan can ever be as bad as what he's done. No amount of ganging up on him in prison, or needles into his skin, or electric shocks can ever match up to what he has done.
This is just horrible.
I can't even begin to fathom what Shasta is feeling and what she's been through for the past 6 weeks. :(

I pray for her and for her family, God rest their souls.

I agree. I was not saying she is going to completely forget what happened. The images will always be with her, bless her little heart. The pictures with her father though are reassuring to me that she's going to mend, slowly, but surely......

[mysteriew]

Maybe it is just me. But my impression of the picture was that Steve was leaning into her, and holding her. But there appeared to be just a bit of stiffness in her, as though maybe the closness of being held might be a bit difficult for her. She was kind of holding herself apart.

[kk's mom]

Maybe it is just me. But my impression of the picture was that Steve was leaning into her, and holding her. But there appeared to be just a bit of stiffness in her, as though maybe the closness of being held might be a bit difficult for her. She was kind of holding herself apart.

I guess everyone will translate different ways. I was looking at her eyes and her smile. She just looks relieved that she's with Daddy.

Either way, she's a little angel. I would love to send her something, perhaps a gift card for someone to do some shopping for her for little girls clothes, anything she needs. I guess I'll wait and see if there is some type of info for donations, etc.

[nanandjim]

... I guess I'll wait and see if there is some type of info for donations, etc.
I did hear information on one of the news conferences. They said that they have received so many gifts for Shasta that they have filled an entire hospital room. They were requesting monetary donations instead. They gave the information where to send it, but I missed it.

[IdahoMom]

I would love to send her something, perhaps a gift card for someone to do some shopping for her for little girls clothes, anything she needs. I guess I'll wait and see if there is some type of info for donations, etc.
That is so sweet and kind hearted! :blowkiss:

[kk's mom]

That is so sweet and kind hearted! :blowkiss:

Thanks......this is just soooo sad. I can't stop thinking about her. She's just a baby. Her little face has touched my heart. I'm waiting for the news to come in any day about Dylan. It's going to upset me terribly, I know that. He looks just like his little sister.

I just want to do something, anything. If anyone sees anything, will they post?

[Shazzie]

I have a feeling that he had been watching Shasta and Dylan from afar and decided that he was going to take them somehow. This is what Couey did with Jessica...watched her from across the street. I agree with you. He saw the kids, decided he wanted them, and then watched and waited and figured out the family's habits and assessed their vulnerability...until he decided the time was right (for whatever reason) to strike. To me, this looks like just another case of a perverted creep stalking his prey, and I see no reason to assume there's any more to it than that.

Unfortunately Duncan is extremely dangerous and filled with rage and went much further than most do. I'd consider him in the rank with violent serial killers.Agreed again. There is no doubt in my mind that those recovered remains are Dylan's, and I also have no doubt that if he hadn't been apprehended while Shasta was still alive, he would have eventually killed her as well, then gone on to kill others. In other words, he was in the process of developing into a serial killer. Thank God he was stopped in his tracks before he went on to do God knows how much more damage.

ETA: Of course, he wasn't stopped nearly soon enough. :( But at least he HAS been stopped.

[dragonfly]

Many things that JED did laided the ground work for making him a serial killer. I do believe he wanted to be consider on the level with the greats like BTK, Hillside Strangler etc. First he documented details on the computer websites. He wanted the public to know his intermost thoughts. He wanted to tell people that he planned to go out in a big way..causing others to go out with him. I do believe that he was amazed at how he was getting away with such a horrendous series of crimes, kidnapping, murder and molestation. If he read the papers he knew LE didn't have a clue, they might have been doing everything they could but by jove he was successful in fooling the nations best. The problem is if he killed Shasta and was not capture, no one would know anything about him... In order to become famous, he had to be caught. Many have said they thought he wanted to get caught when he paraded Shasta out in public in her home town. I agree. This is how the world would be aware of the existance of Joseph Edward Duncan. It Worked! He's pleased!

[mysteriew]

Many things that JED did laided the ground work for making him a serial killer. I do believe he wanted to be consider on the level with the greats like BTK, Hillside Strangler etc. First he documented details on the computer websites. He wanted the public to know his intermost thoughts. He wanted to tell people that he planned to go out in a big way..causing others to go out with him. I do believe that he was amazed at how he was getting away with such a horrendous series of crimes, kidnapping, murder and molestation. If he read the papers he knew LE didn't have a clue, they might have been doing everything they could but by jove he was successful in fooling the nations best. The problem is if he killed Shasta and was not capture, no one would know anything about him... In order to become famous, he had to be caught. Many have said they thought he wanted to get caught when he paraded Shasta out in public in her home town. I agree. This is how the world would be aware of the existance of Joseph Edward Duncan. It Worked! He's pleased!

Leaving Shasta alive could be to help get the story told.

[OMGosh05]

Thanks......this is just soooo sad. I can't stop thinking about her. She's just a baby. Her little face has touched my heart. I'm waiting for the news to come in any day about Dylan. It's going to upset me terribly, I know that. He looks just like his little sister.

I just want to do something, anything. If anyone sees anything, will they post?
Ditto. This is just too sad, especially considering the fact that this could have very well been prevented, if only this creature had been kept behind bars or put 6ft under where he belongs.

I can't stop thinking about this case. When I saw the gas station clip, with little Shasta walking around the store, looking up for someone to notice her. Ugh it just breaks my heart. She is just a baby for crying out loud, A BABY! She looked so small and defenseless, ugh. Poor baby.

This has got to STOP. Who's next? I mean seriously. There are so many of these creeps out free, roaming around our neighborhoods. First Jessica, now Shasta/her brother & family, and God only knows how many other kids whos cases have remained unsolved, when is this going to stop?

Lock up these monsters and throw away the key. :furious:

[lady-eowyn]

I can't stop thinking about this case. When I saw the gas station clip, with little Shasta walking around the store, looking up for someone to notice her. Ugh it just breaks my heart. She is just a baby for crying out loud, A BABY! She looked so small and defenseless, ugh. Poor baby.
I felt the same way...just wanted to scoop her up into my arms and tell her it would be OK. Bless her little heart :(

[scifier]

This guy had to have been watching them that weekend. I bet from the campground, heck he could have been driving on 90, which seems to be his route of choice, and seen them from there, the house is right there!

I think we're all bad Websleuthers on this one so don't feel badly. Because of the violent nature of the crimes, we assumed that it was a drug rage, but this guy has to have some serious mental issues, like physiological. Bipolar?

But you know, didn't police say there were drugs in their systems but no traces found at the scene. Some of the things the police said, I can't remember right now, but it made it look like they were targeted for drugs, or a robbery.

He must have carried the two little ones outside, left them there, then went back in and killed the family. This is all so bizarre, this guy has more than one demon in that head.I dont know that you can call us bad websleuthers. Our logic according to the information being released by LE was pretty good. Are fault was relying on that info to be correct. I think our local, state and Fed (FBI) LE's dropped the ball on this one. It had to have been obvious that there was only one killer at the most, with all of the blood supposedly there, footprints and other lack of DNA. The more more perps the more evidence would have been left (why I didnt think of that before!) I think LE gets a certain mindset on who was responsible and then had tunnel vision accordingly. I think if I had access to the crime scene that I would have come to a far different conclusion than they had. I could be wrong, but they (LE) were definately wrong. I stated a long time ago in the beginning of this that the public was the one that was going to solve this and I was correct. LE needs to get the public more involved next time and give us the necessary info so that we could be of some help. They (LE) think that we are not qualified to understand the complexities of a case like this, but I believe that if we had all of the info from the start we could have maybe made a difference whether Dylan was still alive. Once again, I could be wrong and it may be just water under the bridge at this point (the value of hindsight), I dont know. But I am genuinely upset that this monster was loose in our community and we were not informed of the danger that we were in. Just think if he hadnt stopped here in town and gotten caught. We might never have found out who did this. Scary. Just MO.

[mysteriew]

LE needs to get the public more involved next time and give us the necessary info so that we could be of some help. They (LE) think that we are not qualified to understand the complexities of a case like this, but I believe that if we had all of the info from the start we could have maybe made a difference whether Dylan was still alive. Once again, I could be wrong and it may be just water under the bridge at this point (the value of hindsight), I dont know. But I am genuinely upset that this monster was loose in our community and we were not informed of the danger that we were in. Just think if he hadnt stopped here in town and gotten caught. We might never have found out who did this. Scary. Just MO.

I think that LE is concerned that if they release all of the info, if someone gets lucky and solves it, the suspect may never make it to trial! They also have to give some consideration to the fact that the person who solves a case could also place themselves in danger. Then there is also the chance that someone could suspect the wrong person, and in "punishing" them, could injure or kill an innocent person. (I confess I suspected the brother for a period of time, and I know others who suspected Steve, as an example)

[Beyond Belief]

http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2005/07/06/news/news01.txt


http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2005/07/06/news/news02.txt

http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2005/07/06/news/news03.txt

[Wayne]

I dont know that you can call us bad websleuthers. Are logic according to the information being released by LE was pretty good. Are fault was relying on that info to be correct. I think our local, state and Fed (FBI) LE's dropped the ball on this one. It had to have been obvious that there was only one killer at the most, with all of the blood supposedly there, footprints and other lack of DNA. The more more perps the more evidence would have been left (why I didnt think of that before!) I think LE gets a certain mindset on who was responsible and then had tunnel vision accordingly. I think if I had access to the crime scene that I would have come to a far different conclusion than they had. I could be wrong, but they (LE) were definately wrong. I stated a long time ago in the beginning of this that the public was the one that was going to solve this and I was correct. LE needs to get the public more involved next time and give us the necessary info so that we could be of some help. They (LE) think that we are not qualified to understand the complexities of a case like this, but I believe that if we had all of the info from the start we could have maybe made a difference whether Dylan was still alive. Once again, I could be wrong and it may be just water under the bridge at this point (the value of hindsight), I dont know. But I am genuinely upset that this monster was loose in our community and we were not informed of the danger that we were in. Just think if he hadnt stopped here in town and gotten caught. We might never have found out who did this. Scary. Just MO.
Your statement I think LE gets a certain mindset on who was responsible and then had tunnel vision accordingly. I agree with to a point...

As LE pointed out, they had no evidence Duncan was in Idaho or Montana. None. He traveled across state lines and hid in a national park, beyond local LE's jurisdiction. LE had not a clue - no resonable logic to even suggest - Duncan was in the area. And that, IMO, we can not fault LE.

Yet, I do believe LE needs to update their theoretical (theory) models and their profiles. That I sense will be done soon - only we'll have some other awful creep perp surface and spread their evil. Then, we'll be saying the same thing - LE needs to update their theoretical (theory) models and their profiles. It is an endless cycle.

I recall reading although we are not always responsible for what happens to us, we are responsible for our actions and what we do. IMO, Duncan may have been a victim himself as a child and early-teenager and acted out behavior he had inflicted onto him. Yet, that does not excuse his actions but it does offer insight. This guy Duncan, as a condition for his probation in 2000, should have been subjected to polygraph screenings every month plus weekly therapy. The minute the polygraph came back that he (Duncan) was imbalance (response to questions about feeling singled-out or treated unfairly), into a ward or jail he should have gone. I sense when he began his blog, that is when he likely would have been caught.

I still really want to know how Duncan chose the Groene family. Was it from geocaching website? I do not believe he chose the family at random. Maybe he saw Shasta and Dylan earlier at a video store or fast food restaurant?

I feel sad for the Groene family. Shasta has a long road to recovery.

[Beyond Belief]

Fox is talking about Duncan now. Childrens father interviewed at five thirty. Now their talking about a Shasta's Law. Geeez.

[Beyond Belief]

I dont know that you can call us bad websleuthers. Our logic according to the information being released by LE was pretty good. Are fault was relying on that info to be correct. I think our local, state and Fed (FBI) LE's dropped the ball on this one. It had to have been obvious that there was only one killer at the most, with all of the blood supposedly there, footprints and other lack of DNA. The more more perps the more evidence would have been left (why I didnt think of that before!) I think LE gets a certain mindset on who was responsible and then had tunnel vision accordingly. I think if I had access to the crime scene that I would have come to a far different conclusion than they had. I could be wrong, but they (LE) were definately wrong. I stated a long time ago in the beginning of this that the public was the one that was going to solve this and I was correct. LE needs to get the public more involved next time and give us the necessary info so that we could be of some help. They (LE) think that we are not qualified to understand the complexities of a case like this, but I believe that if we had all of the info from the start we could have maybe made a difference whether Dylan was still alive. Once again, I could be wrong and it may be just water under the bridge at this point (the value of hindsight), I dont know. But I am genuinely upset that this monster was loose in our community and we were not informed of the danger that we were in. Just think if he hadnt stopped here in town and gotten caught. We might never have found out who did this. Scary. Just MO.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[lady-eowyn]

Fox is talking about Duncan now. Childrens father interviewed at five thirty. Now their talking about a Shasta's Law. Geeez.
Shasta's Law? Probably ust another bandaid on a gaping wound to appease those who are outraged now...I wish they create some laws that have real teeth

[CaliKid]

JED left N. Dakota where he was a registered sex offender and crossed into Idaho that had absolutely no idea who he was. If anything points to the need for a national sex offender's registry, this crime does.

[Beyond Belief]

Something has to be done. I have had enough of this.

[mysteriew]

Your statement I think LE gets a certain mindset on who was responsible and then had tunnel vision accordingly. I agree with to a point...

As LE pointed out, they had no evidence Duncan was in Idaho or Montana. None. He traveled across state lines and hid in a national park, beyond local LE's jurisdiction. LE had not a clue - no resonable logic to even suggest - Duncan was in the area. And that, IMO, we can not fault LE.

Yet, I do believe LE needs to update their theoretical (theory) models and their profiles. That I sense will be done soon - only we'll have some other awful creep perp surface and spread their evil. Then, we'll be saying the same thing - LE needs to update their theoretical (theory) models and their profiles. It is an endless cycle.

I recall reading although we are not always responsible for what happens to us, we are responsible for our actions and what we do. IMO, Duncan may have been a victim himself as a child and early-teenager and acted out behavior he had inflicted onto him. Yet, that does not excuse his actions but it does offer insight. This guy Duncan, as a condition for his probation in 2000, should have been subjected to polygraph screenings every month plus weekly therapy. The minute the polygraph came back that he (Duncan) was imbalance (response to questions about feeling singled-out or treated unfairly), into a ward or jail he should have gone. I sense when he began his blog, that is when he likely would have been caught.

I still really want to know how Duncan chose the Groene family. Was it from geocaching website? I do not believe he chose the family at random. Maybe he saw Shasta and Dylan earlier at a video store or fast food restaurant?

I feel sad for the Groene family. Shasta has a long road to recovery.

I agree with you. I also think that Duncan was not only aware of LE's weaknesses, I think he exploited them. When he moved to N.D. he just happened to end up near the state line? And, he just happened to get caught in another state(Minn)? And when he commits these murders and kidnappings he just happens to choose an area that he was familiar with? He was from Wash. Committed the murders in Idaho, and hid out in Mont.
He knew there wouldn't be a complete exchange of info from state to state. And he knew that jumping state to state would increase his chances of escaping detection. Thank God for computers, because they caught him in Minn. (they caught him, but didn't keep him). But if he hadn't returned to the scene of the crime with Shasta- he could have walked away from this and never been caught.

[lady-eowyn]

Something has to be done. I have had enough of this.
Well then, I suggest we create a coalition of sorts and speak out. There is a thread in the Lunsford forum by One Mad Momma about a march on DC...a million mother march...can you imagine if all the angry mothers (and fathers) got together right now and showed up in force? Who could ignore them?

[Beyond Belief]

Well then, I suggest we create a coalition of sorts and speak out. There is a thread in the Lunsford forum by One Mad Momma about a march on DC...a million mother march...can you imagine if all the angry mothers (and fathers) got together right now and showed up in force? Who could ignore them?Their not going to ignore us. They just don't know what to do. LE s are over worked underpaid, etc. We need a plan and the manpower to get it done.
Homeland security, sounds like the right name to me. If we can't make our kids secure, we're pretty worthless.

[Mygirlsadie]

Well then, I suggest we create a coalition of sorts and speak out. There is a thread in the Lunsford forum by One Mad Momma about a march on DC...a million mother march...can you imagine if all the angry mothers (and fathers) got together right now and showed up in force? Who could ignore them?

:::::pulling out tennis shoes from the closet and dusting them off:::::: (give me a time & date and I'm there!)

[Beyond Belief]

Sounds like a plan!:clap:

[lady-eowyn]

I'm dead serious!! I just PM'd One Mad Momma..and I've emailed Becca who posts on the Lunsford forum...I think this is a great idea. Sometimes it takes more than just letter writing and wishing and hoping. I've said it before and will say it again. Most people are shocked when a crime like this happens...but then it goes away and everyone gets complacent. We need help people from being complacent. I've been angry for a long time..Jessica Lunsfords murder sealed it..., Jetseta Gage, Sarah Lunde and the Groene case just put me over the top. Maybe a march of protest is all for show...but I can't help but think it would make people open their eyes. And to have a coalition of sorts that didn't stop until things changed. Listen...a bunch of angry moms (and dad's...because there seem to be just as many dads in the news lately) is a force to be reckoned with!!

[CaliKid]

I agree with you. I also think that Duncan was not only aware of LE's weaknesses, I think he exploited them. When he moved to N.D. he just happened to end up near the state line? And, he just happened to get caught in another state(Minn)? And when he commits these murders and kidnappings he just happens to choose an area that he was familiar with? He was from Wash. Committed the murders in Idaho, and hid out in Mont.
He knew there wouldn't be a complete exchange of info from state to state. And he knew that jumping state to state would increase his chances of escaping detection. Thank God for computers, because they caught him in Minn. (they caught him, but didn't keep him). But if he hadn't returned to the scene of the crime with Shasta- he could have walked away from this and never been caught.
So if he was so smart, why did he allow himself to be caught? Arrogance?

[femepetite]

...what i wanna know is what is up with the state of Florida?? no offense, but lately Florida has had this rash of hideous offenses coming to the fore. what is it about this state that the pervs love so much? the weather? i don't get it.

...and, if it isn't just Florida (which i have a feeling it isn't) then how come the other states haven't had a rash of these crimes happening all at once? or are they and we just don't know about them...yet?

[Beyond Belief]

I'm dead serious!! I just PM'd One Mad Momma..and I've emailed Becca who posts on the Lunsford forum...I think this is a great idea. Sometimes it takes more than just letter writing and wishing and hoping. I've said it before and will say it again. Most people are shocked when a crime like this happens...but then it goes away and everyone gets complacent. We need help people from being complacent. I've been angry for a long time..Jessica Lunsfords murder sealed it..., Jetseta Gage, Sarah Lunde and the Groene case just put me over the top. Maybe a march of protest is all for show...but I can't help but think it would make people open their eyes. And to have a coalition of sorts that didn't stop until things changed. Listen...a bunch of angry moms (and dad's...because there seem to be just as many dads in the news lately) is a force to be reckoned with!!
Maybe a March, in conjunction with parents standing on busy corners with signs, great big, too the point signs.

[BobF]

This guy Duncan, as a condition for his probation in 2000, should have been subjected to polygraph screenings every month plus weekly therapy. The minute the polygraph came back that he (Duncan) was imbalance (response to questions about feeling singled-out or treated unfairly), into a ward or jail he should have gone. I sense when he began his blog, that is when he likely would have been caught.

I believe he was paroled in 1994 and then violated the his parol and was sent back to prison. When he was released from prison in 2000, he had served out his entire sentence and therefore there were no probation or paraol conditions, just the federal law that he had to register as a sex offender. I don't think these sex offender laws work personally, and I am sure you agree. I feel once one has served their time, they should be free from any type of hassle. What we would need to do is make sure violent criminals with high recidivism rates are never released from prison in the first place. Personally, I think Child molesters, rapists, and serial murders should never be released from prison. I feel if you have to be registered in some database as an offender due the the likeliness you will re-offend, then you shouldn't be out of prison in the first place. It just doesn't make sense to me to let these animals out of prison when we know they will offend again, whether we catch em or not!

[Beyond Belief]

I believe he was paroled in 1994 and then violated the his parol and was sent back. When he was released in 2000, he had served out his entire sentence and therefore there were no probation or paraol conditions. I don't think these sex offender laws work personally, and I am sure you agree. I feel once one has served their time, they should be free from any type of hassle. What we would need to do is make sure violent criminals with high recidivism rates are never released from prison in the first place. Personally, I think Child molesters, rapists, and serial murders should never be released from prison. I feel if you have to be registered in some database as an offender due the the likeliness you will re-offend, then you shouldn't be out of prison in the first place. It just doesn't make sense to me to let these animals out of prison when we know they will offend again, whether we catch em or not!
It doesn't make sense to me either. Are the neighborhoods suppose to babysit these people?

[CaliKid]

It's not LE that's the problem, it's the court system and or laws which protect the perps of the crime more than the victims. The criminals have more rights than the people they molest and murder.

[lady-eowyn]

It's not LE that's the problem, it's the court system and or laws which protect the perps of the crime more than the victims. The criminals have more rights than the people they molest and murder.
Exactly...and that is why we need to shout from the rooftops that they have to change...

[BobF]

It's not LE that's the problem, it's the court system and or laws which protect the perps of the crime more than the victims. The criminals have more rights than the people they molest and murder.
Agreed, all LE can do is catch them after they have re-offended, this is why we need to change the laws and the length of sentences for certain crims in my opinion. It seems we punish drug dealers with harsher sentences then child molesters. :silenced:

[lady-eowyn]

I believe Johh Walsh made the statment that LE's hands were tied in many of these cases...but I think his words were that LE was castrated when it needs to be the sex offenders who are castrated

[CaliKid]

Agreed, all LE can do is catch them after they have re-offended, this is why we need to change the laws and the length of sentences for certain crims in my opinion. It seems we punish drug dealers with harsher sentences then child molesters. :silenced:
That is so true.

[englishleigh]

This animal should be put to DEATH in the same manner as Tim McVeigh. The People Of The United States should witness this sum-bag die, right on the T.V. Just my :twocents:

The way Tim McVeigh died is too humane for this scum...it was too humane for Tim McVeigh, too.

[Beyond Belief]

Abrahms report MSNBC. Already arguing if laws should be changed.

[Beyond Belief]

I think offenders should serve their sentence, then be placed in a mental institution where they receive treatment for the rest of their life. They should consider anyone who does these types of crimes as insane.

[CaliKid]

IF the laws should be changed? IF? These people need to grow a brain!

[Beyond Belief]

IF the laws should be changed? IF? These people need to grow a brain!
The one "broad" was blaming the system.

[wicket]

As stated 'if' the laws should be changed - we also need to enforce the ones on the books. Some psychologist approaches an already over-crowded prison and before we know it, out the backdoor go so-called 'cured' or 'little threat to society'-pedophiles. They are never cured. My opinion is, once convicted, they should lose their rights to walk among society.
Also, I began thinking - I'm certainly no big fan of Martha Stewart, but heck, we have probation officers watching her every move, the media checking on just how many yards she strolls from her mansion, plus she has an ankle bracelet on. For goodness sake, couldn't we put half the manpower into corraling pedophiles instead of shadowing Martha? Or is it much too difficult? We as a society must start writing letters, emailing our representatives; raising the level of attention because this is going to occur again. I wish it weren't so! :furious:

[mysteriew]

Agreed, all LE can do is catch them after they have re-offended, this is why we need to change the laws and the length of sentences for certain crims in my opinion. It seems we punish drug dealers with harsher sentences then child molesters. :silenced:

People with crimes involving property get stronger punishments than a sex offender. Drug users get longer sentences. I have even known of a case in my area where a mother who killed her child- got the same sentence that a man did for killing a dog! Crimes against women and children are treated easier than any other crime. It has to change and it has to change now! This case just stands as an illustration that it is not Fla's problem, this is everybody's problem. And it doesn't matter what state a person gets released from or bonded from- even if you live in another state- you still aren't safe from him.
Jessie L.'s killing seemed to trigger a number of other child killings and sex crimes. Now this guy took it another step. He killed a family to get to the children. I just hope that it doesn't get others stirred up to do the same.