For love or money?

[NCBanker]

I'm posting this for the benefit of all you talented sleuthers. This was published recently in a local LDS lifestyle newspaper in San Diego, CA, a place Raven lived as a youth. This newspaper is not an official publication of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There will be differing opinions about this, so please feel free to express! There have been several who thought Raven's family was exploiting this tragedy by setting up a fund in Utah. I personally think doing this was completely innocent in design. People do this in lieu of sending flowers quite frequently. Remember, they had been out of work and on hard times. Yes, they were putting the pieces back together, but things were still tight. I'm sure Raven's family understood this. From this article, it appears that his family in Arizona set up the fund, NOT his mother in Utah. Remember that Raven lived most of his childhood in Utah, so the bulk of any donations would most likely come from people who knew him there.

Granted, we all think Raven did this horrible thing, but I think the fund was set up in good faith by family members who genuinely care about the welfare of Kaiden. Remember, Janet is the one who died, not Kaiden. That's why the fund is set up in HER name, for HER memory. Though Raven may be guilty, his family shouldn't automatically be assumed guilty by association. This may have been an innocent act of kindness. Regardless, please post your thoughts...

The San Diego Seagull
July 2005 Vol. 25, No. 2

Wife of former San Diegan is murdered in her home in Durham, North Carolina
Raven Abaroa, age 25, is a former member of several wards in the San Diego area. Most recently he lived in the Grossmont Ward, Santee Stake, before moving to Utah with his family in 1993.

About five years ago he married Janet Christiansen in the Washington, D.C. Temple. They settled in Durham, North Carolina.

Raven arrived home on April 26 after playing in a soccer game. He found his six-month-old son Kaiden asleep in his bed where he had left him and soon after discovered his wife Janet, also 25, stabbed to death in an office in their home. Police are still investigating the crime.

The Abaroas met while playing soccer at Southern Virginia University, where Janet was an All-American in soccer. She helped lead her team to back-to-back National Small College Athletic Association championship victories in 1998 and 1999. She was a member of the Presidents Honor Roll with a 4.0 GPA.

Raven is the son of Karyn Abaroa-Bolton and the grandson of Robbie Abaroa. Robbie is a long-time resident of the San Diego area and currently in the Chula Vista Stake 2nd Ward.

Funeral services were held for Janet on May 7 at the LDS State Center in Buena Vista, Virginia and burial was in Pennsylvania. A memorial service was later held in her hometown of Annandale, Virginia.

Robbie said Church members and the Relief Societies of each area were extremely thoughtful and caring in helping the family, providing food and help in numerous ways.

Kaiden is now being cared for by his father and other relatives.

A memorial fund set up for Kaiden

A cousin of Raven’s, Deena Peterson Thorpe and her husband Jeff, of Mesa, Arizona felt they wanted to do something more helpful and enduring for the family. Deena said, "When we first heard about Janet’s death, our family felt that we needed to do something more than just send a sympathy card."

After deliberations and some fundraising efforts by the Thorpes, a memorial fund was set up for Kaiden.

Anyone wishing to make a donation may mail to:

Janet Abaroa Memorial Fund
I.B.E.W. Federal Credit Union
2405 West 1987 South
Salt Lake City, UT 94104
Deena’s husband Jeff explained to the Seagull how the memorial fund began.

"My wife and I talked about what would be appropriate and decided that I would ask my boss if I could start a collection from co-workers and friends at the hospital to send to a memorial fund. My boss felt that it was a wonderful idea, so I started talking to as many people as I could.

"Our daughters, Lexus, 9, Bethan, 6, and Sidney, 4, saw what I was doing at work and approached me one day and asked if they could have a lemonade stand and send the proceeds to the memorial fund. We made the arrangements for the lemonade stand and took the girls around the neighborhood to talk to people about their fundraiser.

"We made fliers for them to hand out and had a picture of Janet, Raven and Kaiden so the girls could explain why they were doing the lemonade stand. Some people gave them donations right there on the spot. The one thing the girls always said as they explained the family’s tragedy was ‘but the little baby was okay.’

"By the time Saturday came around we had decided that the girls would sell lemonade, cherry lemonade, lemon slushies, cherry-lemon slushies and triple chocolate brownies (which were a huge hit). We had large signs to get people’s attention and set up the table and money booth in the shade of our tree on the front lawn.

"The girls had set a goal of earning $20 to send for the fund. When all was said and done, the girls had made $230 in just four hours. From my collection at work I managed to get $980 from many very wonderful and generous people, some giving more than I knew they really could afford.

"When I would point out that a few dollars would be sufficient, the response was usually that what goes around comes around and that God would bless them for blessing others. This has been a wonderful experience for my family and has taught our girls the blessing of selflessness."

Note: Deena Thorpe is the daughter of Richard and Eva Peterson of San Diego North Stake 10th Ward. For questions or comments, Robbie Abaroa may be reached at: rabaroa@sbcglobal.net. END OF ARTICLE

Though I probably don't have to say it, let's not send any mail to the grandfather. ;)

[Jenifred]

I don't want to be disrespectful, and I think that it's a great idea to have a fund set up for Kaiden--to pay for college or even his LDS mission (if he chooses to do so), but--there's always a but--if Raven has access to these funds it is a crying shame. He is perfectly able to provide for himself. Now if some of the funds went to pay for Janet's funeral arrangements, that's all well and good. But if this money is being used to help bail him out of debt, buy new toys (ie the $500 cell phone golfmom had been tipped off about), pay for his lawyers, pay for his entry fees into some volleyball tournament, Raven is abusing the fund. And those who donated to it should be aware of this.

I also have some more questions:
1. Why would Arizona/California relatives set up the memorial fund in Utah?
2. Would there be a way to set up a fund specifically for Kaiden? And solely for Kaiden?
3. Who really did pay for the funeral arrangements--Janet's family or Raven?

[NCBanker]

Purely speculation here, but I'd assume that Janet's family paid for the funeral. If they didn't have the funds to pay for it, then the Church would step in. I highly doubt the fund is to reimburse the funeral expenses. We should find out who the administrator of the fund is.

As I mentioned previously, the fund was probably set up in Utah because that's where the bulk of his life has been spent. That's where the majority of potential donors would be. Additionally, the credit union may be based there.

I don't want to be disrespectful, and I think that it's a great idea to have a fund set up for Kaiden--to pay for college or even his LDS mission (if he chooses to do so), but--there's always a but--if Raven has access to these funds it is a crying shame. He is perfectly able to provide for himself. Now if some of the funds went to pay for Janet's funeral arrangements, that's all well and good. But if this money is being used to help bail him out of debt, buy new toys (ie the $500 cell phone golfmom had been tipped off about), pay for his lawyers, pay for his entry fees into some volleyball tournament, Raven is abusing the fund. And those who donated to it should be aware of this.

I also have some more questions:
1. Why would Arizona/California relatives set up the memorial fund in Utah?
2. Would there be a way to set up a fund specifically for Kaiden? And solely for Kaiden?
3. Who really did pay for the funeral arrangements--Janet's family or Raven?

[SouthEastSleuth]

We should find out who the administrator of the fund is.

This to me is the most important thing. I personally have no problem with setting up a trust fund to benefit Kaiden, at all. My only questions would have to do with the administration of the fund - who can write the checks, under what guidelines/parameters, etc. As the mailing address was a credit union in SLC (which I think is the Electician's CU, and Raven's step Dad, if I'm not mistaken, is or was an electrician???), perhaps the trust is administered by the CU? No idea, but surely that would be preferable over a family member administering the funds, as there could be an inherent conflict of interest there, at least potentially.

I wonder, too, if there legal guidelines about such a fund.

I mean the bottom line is - if the fund's purpose is to benefit Kaiden, then all funds should do just that, and nothing more. Now that said, I suppose that could range from daily things like buying diapers, to, big things like saving money for college or something. My hope would be that Raven gets a job, and takes on the responsiblity for day-to-day expenses for his son. And that monies collected in this trust would be for educational expenses or something, down the road....

[NCBanker]

I wanted to phone the credit union in order to find out who the administrator is, but it appears my wife is going into labor with our 3rd baby, so we're going to be heading over to the hospital in a few minutes. I'll probably be out of pocket for a few days, at least. Someone please take the liberty to contact the credit union to find out who the administrator is. You can pose as a potential donor, or even actually donate if so inclined.

[Moxie]

I wanted to phone the credit union in order to find out who the administrator is, but it appears my wife is going into labor with our 3rd baby, so we're going to be heading over to the hospital in a few minutes. I'll probably be out of pocket for a few days, at least. Someone please take the liberty to contact the credit union to find out who the administrator is. You can pose as a potential donor, or even actually donate if so inclined.
How exciting!! Good luck!!

[snapple]

The San Diego Seagull
July 2005 Vol. 25, No. 2


A memorial fund set up for Kaiden

A cousin of Raven’s, Deena Peterson Thorpe and her husband Jeff, of Mesa, Arizona felt they wanted to do something more helpful and enduring for the family. Deena said, "When we first heard about Janet’s death, our family felt that we needed to do something more than just send a sympathy card."

After deliberations and some fundraising efforts by the Thorpes, a memorial fund was set up for Kaiden.

Anyone wishing to make a donation may mail to:

Janet Abaroa Memorial Fund
I.B.E.W. Federal Credit Union
2405 West 1987 South
Salt Lake City, UT 94104
Deena’s husband Jeff explained to the Seagull how the memorial fund began.

"My wife and I talked about what would be appropriate and decided that I would ask my boss if I could start a collection from co-workers and friends at the hospital to send to a memorial fund. My boss felt that it was a wonderful idea, so I started talking to as many people as I could.

"Our daughters, Lexus, 9, Bethan, 6, and Sidney, 4, saw what I was doing at work and approached me one day and asked if they could have a lemonade stand and send the proceeds to the memorial fund. We made the arrangements for the lemonade stand and took the girls around the neighborhood to talk to people about their fundraiser.

"We made fliers for them to hand out and had a picture of Janet, Raven and Kaiden so the girls could explain why they were doing the lemonade stand. Some people gave them donations right there on the spot. The one thing the girls always said as they explained the family’s tragedy was ‘but the little baby was okay.’

"By the time Saturday came around we had decided that the girls would sell lemonade, cherry lemonade, lemon slushies, cherry-lemon slushies and triple chocolate brownies (which were a huge hit). We had large signs to get people’s attention and set up the table and money booth in the shade of our tree on the front lawn.

"The girls had set a goal of earning $20 to send for the fund. When all was said and done, the girls had made $230 in just four hours. From my collection at work I managed to get $980 from many very wonderful and generous people, some giving more than I knew they really could afford.

"When I would point out that a few dollars would be sufficient, the response was usually that what goes around comes around and that God would bless them for blessing others. This has been a wonderful experience for my family and has taught our girls the blessing of selflessness."

Note: Deena Thorpe is the daughter of Richard and Eva Peterson of San Diego North Stake 10th Ward. For questions or comments, Robbie Abaroa may be reached at: rabaroa@sbcglobal.net. END OF ARTICLE

Though I probably don't have to say it, let's not send any mail to the grandfather. ;)OK..THIS JUST REEKS OF WRONG DOING...first, of all, why wasn't the fund that Janet's family set up mentioned in the article? THAT fund gives specifics as to exactly where the money goes (was it because people could compare funds and realize that the "Janet Memorial Fund" set up in UTAH isn't specific as to where the money goes at all!!) Why was the fund set up in Utah and in Janets name? It should be in Kaiden's name IF it is for him...Does anyone know that if the fund was set up in Kaidens name, would Raven be able to get to the money? or would it just stay in the account until Kaiden was old enough to get the money?
I do think the family in AZ was kind, and just trying to help..but I think Raven and his Mom is definately trying to use connections to milk this...This whole thing just feels wrong. Am I the only one here? :mad:

I wonder how people would feel giving to the fund mentioned in the article if they knew Raven was facing embezzlement charges?

[Moxie]

OK..THIS JUST REEKS OF WRONG DOING...first, of all, why wasn't the fund that Janet's family set up mentioned in the article? THAT fund gives specifics as to exactly where the money goes (was it because people could compare funds and realize that the "Janet Memorial Fund" set up in UTAH isn't specific as to where the money goes at all!!) Why was the fund set up in Utah and in Janets name? It should be in Kaiden's name IF it is for him...Does anyone know that if the fund was set up in Kaidens name, would Raven be able to get to the money? or would it just stay in the account until Kaiden was old enough to get the money?
I do think the family in AZ was kind, and just trying to help..but I think Raven and his Mom is definately trying to use connections to milk this...This whole thing just feels wrong. Am I the only one here? :mad:

I wonder how people would feel giving to the fund mentioned in the article if they knew Raven was facing embezzlement charges?
Snapple,

I agree with you completely. It is kind that the family in AZ wanted to help. However.... You raise very good points.

I too wonder what the reaction would be from the kind people who donated if they knew Raven had been charged with embezzlement.

[ewwwinteresting]

OK HERE IS MY FIRST RESPONSE AFTER READING IT.:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: !

[ewwwinteresting]

OK..THIS JUST REEKS OF WRONG DOING...first, of all, why wasn't the fund that Janet's family set up mentioned in the article? THAT fund gives specifics as to exactly where the money goes (was it because people could compare funds and realize that the "Janet Memorial Fund" set up in UTAH isn't specific as to where the money goes at all!!) Why was the fund set up in Utah and in Janets name? It should be in Kaiden's name IF it is for him...Does anyone know that if the fund was set up in Kaidens name, would Raven be able to get to the money? or would it just stay in the account until Kaiden was old enough to get the money?
I do think the family in AZ was kind, and just trying to help..but I think Raven and his Mom is definately trying to use connections to milk this...This whole thing just feels wrong. Am I the only one here? :mad:

I wonder how people would feel giving to the fund mentioned in the article if they knew Raven was facing embezzlement charges?
Snapple, your right on the money...no pun intended!

So..............the Abaroas finally spoke out...uhhhhhhhhhhhhh for money!!!!!!!

Gee, where is the line, if you know anything about this murder, please call the Durham PD at this number.....as you mentioned, where is the alternative donation fund set up by JANET's family? OMG, these people are incredible..how can I benefit from my wife's murder (one that I possible did)!:furious: . Let's see know, they have put this fund in the NC paper. Mom spoke out in the memorial (sooooo tacky) in Virginia about this fund. The family has asked people in Arizona for money. The fund is in Utah and are probably begging for money there and now in California. Opportunist is too good of a word here for what is going on!

[ewwwinteresting]

Note: Deena Thorpe is the daughter of Richard and Eva Peterson of San Diego North Stake 10th Ward. For questions or comments, Robbie Abaroa may be reached at: rabaroa@sbcglobal.net. END OF ARTICLE

Though I probably don't have to say it, let's not send any mail to the grandfather. ;)
Considering the grandfather's dead, that would be pretty tricky :)

Noticing your wink, I say let's email grandma with all our questions and comments! We sure have alot of them. Maybe she could answer them? I goggled her. She is a real estate agent in Chula Vista, California. I think this is by San Diego.

[ItsMe]

I wanted to phone the credit union in order to find out who the administrator is, but it appears my wife is going into labor with our 3rd baby, so we're going to be heading over to the hospital in a few minutes. I'll probably be out of pocket for a few days, at least. Someone please take the liberty to contact the credit union to find out who the administrator is. You can pose as a potential donor, or even actually donate if so inclined.

I just got off the phone with the credit union and was told that the grandpa is the administrator of the fund. The girl that answered the phone called him Boyton or something like that. Her exact words were, "Oh I know....Boyton....the grandpa." So, I'm not sure who this is, but that's what I was told. I'll call again later to see if I can get a full name of the administrator.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I just got off the phone with the credit union and was told that the grandpa is the administrator of the fund. The girl that answered the phone called him Boyton or something like that. Her exact words were, "Oh I know....Boyton....the grandpa." So, I'm not sure who this is, but that's what I was told. I'll call again later to see if I can get a full name of the administrator.

So that must be Raven's step-dad, Jim Bolton. Interesting. I was hoping the CU itself might be the administrator.

[snapple]

I just got off the phone with the credit union and was told that the grandpa is the administrator of the fund. The girl that answered the phone called him Boyton or something like that. Her exact words were, "Oh I know....Boyton....the grandpa." So, I'm not sure who this is, but that's what I was told. I'll call again later to see if I can get a full name of the administrator. :clap: :clap: Yea, Thanks for doing that. Do you know was it Boyton or Bolton? Isn't Raven's Mom's last name Abaroa-Bolton?

[Moxie]

Considering the grandfather's dead, that would be pretty tricky :)

Noticing your wink, I say let's email grandma with all our questions and comments! We sure have alot of them. Maybe she could answer them? I goggled her. She is a real estate agent in Chula Vista, California. I think this is by San Diego.
Help - did I miss something? Was the memorial fund opened in the name of Raven's dead grandfather??!?!?!

[SouthEastSleuth]

Help - did I miss something? Was the memorial fund opened in the name of Raven's dead grandfather??!?!?!
No, no Moxie. Someone called the CU in Utah to see who the administrator is on the trust fund... they were told the grandfather (meaning Kaiden's grandfather). And it SOUNDS like Bolton, which I assume would be Jim Bolton, Raven's step-dad.

[snapple]

Help - did I miss something? Was the memorial fund opened in the name of Raven's dead grandfather??!?!?!I think that Robbie Abaroa is the mom's Mother...the Mom's father is deceased.

[ItsMe]

:clap: :clap: Yea, Thanks for doing that. Do you know was it Boyton or Bolton? Isn't Raven's Mom's last name Abaroa-Bolton?
It for sure could have been Bolton. Probably was, makes much more sense. That would fit since someone mentioned that Raven's step dad is an electrician. So, that would seem correct!! Thanks for clearing that up.

[Moxie]

I think that Robbie Abaroa is the mom's Mother...the Mom's father is deceased.
Oh - okay - thank you - it was getting confusing!

[Jenifred]

You know what I noticed in this article? Let me quote:

"Raven arrived home on April 26 after playing in a soccer game. He found his six-month-old son Kaiden asleep in his bed where he [Raven] had left him and soon after discovered his wife Janet, also 25, stabbed to death in an office in their home. Police are still investigating the crime."

I just thought that there's a tid bit of information that is interesting. Raven knew Kaiden was asleep because he had put him down for the night.

Maybe it's just interesting in my mind, but it makes me question when did Kaiden go down? Did he go to sleep early or later in the evening. My guess would be later so that Janet, after coming home from work, could see him and so that he'd sleep later into the morning, so Raven could recooperate from a late night on the computer.

Anyone else have thoughts?

[snapple]

You know what I noticed in this article? Let me quote:

"Raven arrived home on April 26 after playing in a soccer game. He found his six-month-old son Kaiden asleep in his bed where he [Raven] had left him and soon after discovered his wife Janet, also 25, stabbed to death in an office in their home. Police are still investigating the crime."

I just thought that there's a tid bit of information that is interesting. Raven knew Kaiden was asleep because he had put him down for the night.

Maybe it's just interesting in my mind, but it makes me question when did Kaiden go down? Did he go to sleep early or later in the evening. My guess would be later so that Janet, after coming home from work, could see him and so that he'd sleep later into the morning, so Raven could recooperate from a late night on the computer.

Anyone else have thoughts?
I picked up on that too. What I think he was saying is he put Kaiden down to bed before he went to the "soccer game" and then came back and found him where he left him. IMO, It's like Raven already knew that Janet wouldn't have picked up Kaiden from his bed or interacted with him because she was already dead before Raven left for the "soccer game".

[ewwwinteresting]

It for sure could have been Bolton. Probably was, makes much more sense. That would fit since someone mentioned that Raven's step dad is an electrician. So, that would seem correct!! Thanks for clearing that up.
Ok, so from my understanding for the benefit to go to only the child's education or whatever, you would put the account under the minor's act. Raven's stepdad probably had to be listed as the Administrator since it is a credit union for electricians and he is the only one we know of that is an electrician in this family. And if that's the case, the cousin in Arizona didn't set this fund up as alleged in the article. And if Raven's stepdad is listed as the Administrator, what is stopping him from giving the money to Raven....nothing. What is stopping him from paying an attorney to defend embezzlement charges/give advice in the murder crime.......nothing. What is stopping him from not spending one dime on Kaiden.....nothing. If it was truly for Kaiden, then it should be listed as such!

[lauriej]

...hmmmmmmm...i've had to read over the articles posted by NCB a few times just to digest it all!

...my initial thoughts were........
...(especially after hearing that raven's mom had pre-promoted the 'utah fund' ,while holding kaiden no less, in VA.....)
...ahhhhh...and so here is the actual promotion itself...

...they did a good job of reaching out to as many wards as possible...the grandmother from one....raven from many...the cousin & spouse, from another...oh, and the cousins parents....yet another...

...as i read the article, (with a very biased--------but raven murdered her! )mind-set, it appalled me that they'd throw in the children's lemonade stand story to 'soften ' the outright plea for $$$'s...

...not to be mis-understood...........what those kids did was incredibly touching, as well as the cousin & her husband, the co-workers...it's a wonderful thing to see such an out-pouring of support!

...NCB stated:Remember, they had been out of work and on hard times.
...i respectfully disagree..........janet had to leave eurosport b/c of raven.........she found work immediatly, it was raven that caused them the 'hard times'...

...this article is dated july 2005..........(i don't see a problem if the trust fund is for kaiden at this point.....but is it ?).......raven is certainly young enough and capable enough of getting a job , yes his wife was murdered (over) 2 months ago........but as a single parent, he's got to 'do for himself' as well...

...i don't know if this has been the 1st mention of janet's murder in this pu blication............if so, ...they wrapped that up in an entire 2 sentences...

...this whloe trust fund in utah seems fishy...

...supposedly , began on an idea by the cousin....in arizona..
...administered by the step-father @ the IBEW ( international brotherhood of electrical workers...................yes, i had to look that up ) CU , jim bolten...in utah
...questions/comments to the grandmother...in chula vista.....

...if it's a trust for kaiden..........then say so...........'the kaiden abaroa trust fund'..................to be accessed when he's 21...or whatever...for college....etc...

...but, .......the janet abaroa fund?.c/o IBEW CU........administered by the step-father/raven's mother?..........to be used for gas for the VX?

...money has already come in from :
"wonderful and generous people, some giving more than I knew they really could afford."
... and THAT is the sad part.............others giving so generously.............to ( what i believe ) is an undeserving recipient..

[lauriej]

I wanted to phone the credit union in order to find out who the administrator is, but it appears my wife is going into labor with our 3rd baby, so we're going to be heading over to the hospital in a few minutes. I'll probably be out of pocket for a few days, at least. Someone please take the liberty to contact the credit union to find out who the administrator is. You can pose as a potential donor, or even actually donate if so inclined.
...how exciting!

...and.........................???????

[NCBanker]

We had a beautiful baby girl! She weighed 7lbs. 1oz. and is 19" long. Mom and baby are doing well, though things are crazy at home with dad watching the other 2 little ones!

...how exciting!

...and.........................???????

[golfmom]

We had a beautiful baby girl! She weighed 7lbs. 1oz. and is 19" long. Mom and baby are doing well, though things are crazy at home with dad watching the other 2 little ones!

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S ! ! !

[Chica]

We had a beautiful baby girl! She weighed 7lbs. 1oz. and is 19" long. Mom and baby are doing well, though things are crazy at home with dad watching the other 2 little ones!
Congratulations!![/

[newkid]

Congratulations! :woohoo:

[icare]

We had a beautiful baby girl! She weighed 7lbs. 1oz. and is 19" long. Mom and baby are doing well, though things are crazy at home with dad watching the other 2 little ones!



Congratulations!!!!!! :clap: :clap:

[Annandale1998]

Congratulation!
I have 3 as well and it is VERY time consuming and a blessing as well. I hope she gets all the rest she can in the hospital. MOM that is.:woohoo:

[NCBanker]

Thank you all. I didn't mean to take the focus off Janet.

What I'm about to post, I'll post on a few of the other threads as well. I've learned that Raven is now back on the east coast in either Maine or New Hampshire visiting family. I imagine he'll be heading this way again towards mid July as his court date approaches.

[LTUlegal]

I wanted to phone the credit union in order to find out who the administrator is, but it appears my wife is going into labor with our 3rd baby, so we're going to be heading over to the hospital in a few minutes. I'll probably be out of pocket for a few days, at least. Someone please take the liberty to contact the credit union to find out who the administrator is. You can pose as a potential donor, or even actually donate if so inclined.
Congratulations, NC!!!

[ewwwinteresting]

:laugh: No kidding! But why would he have to get a job when he has news articles out there soliciting monies for the "Help Me Buy my Toys, Keep up my Image, Travel Coast to Coast, Keep Me out of Jail" Fund...AKA The (Utah) Janet Memorial Fund.
Can someone please change the name of this thread to the "Help Me Buy my Toys, Keep up my Image, Travel Coast to Coast, Keep Me out of Jail" Fund? I think we all know the answer whether it was for love or money!

[NCBanker]

I really didn't know what to entitle this thread. I tried to come up with something clever. Plus, I really don't think his family is doing this for Raven. I honestly and sincerely think their concern is for Kaiden; hence, the neutral title.

:laugh:
Can someone please change the name of this thread to the "Help Me Buy my Toys, Keep up my Image, Travel Coast to Coast, Keep Me out of Jail" Fund? I think we all know the answer whether it was for love or money!

[golfmom]

I really didn't know what to entitle this thread. I tried to come up with something clever. Plus, I really don't think his family is doing this for Raven. I honestly and sincerely think their concern is for Kaiden; hence, the neutral title.

Wouldn't it just be a huge kick in the butt if there was a substantial life insurance policy on Janet and his family was running around asking for money for Kaiden's future?

I wish there was a way to find out if there was a policy on Janet.

[Moxie]

Well, it stands to reason that prior to having Kaiden, Raven and Janet would obtain a life insurance policy. Whole life, term, whatever. Most couples having a baby would do this. Remember this was a more stable time in their relationship. They had gotten back together and were preparing for a baby. So that said, how do you find out about policies? Are they all confidential? Or can you just see if there is a policy under that persons name?

[golfmom]

Well, it stands to reason that prior to having Kaiden, Raven and Janet would obtain a life insurance policy. Whole life, term, whatever. Most couples having a baby would do this. Remember this was a more stable time in their relationship. They had gotten back together and were preparing for a baby. So that said, how do you find out about policies? Are they all confidential? Or can you just see if there is a policy under that persons name?

I don't have any idea on that one, I'd think that info would be confidential. But, I would HOPE that LE has investigated this area thoroughly. It would really stink if there was a policy and Raven managed to hide it from everyone including the detectives working on this case.

[Moxie]

If there is a policy, LE knows. An insurance company would not pay out on a policy no matter how large or small until they investigated the claim. They would have to know how she died before paying out. An investigation would lead them to LE and LE would know. If LE knows and they are keeping it quiet then that means it is considered part of the case. Perhaps as a MOTIVE.:behindbar

[golfmom]

If there is a policy, LE knows. An insurance company would not pay out on a policy no matter how large or small until they investigated the claim. They would have to know how she died before paying out. An investigation would lead them to LE and LE would know. If LE knows and they are keeping it quiet then that means it is considered part of the case. Perhaps as a MOTIVE.:behindbar

If there was a policy it certainly would be a very strong MOTIVE considering the financial shape the Abaroa's were in!

Do we have any insurance experts lurking around? I'd like to know how the process works. Could Raven have had a policy on Janet without her knowledge? Does a person have to apply for the benefits in order for an investigation to be triggered? Or, could the insurance company be informed by the agent who in turn would alert LE that a policy was in force?

Sure would be interesting to know one way or another if there was a policy. And, it would be very interesting if Raven denied to the police that there was one and they found out that there really was! Oops I forgot I insured my wife probably won't cut it under these circumstances.

[golfmom]

http://www.rivkinradler.com/rivkinradler/Publications/newformat/200212tolle.shtml

A South Carolina case, Ramey v. Carolina Life Ins. Co.,[8]explains this rationale. In that case, a wife obtained a life insurance policy on the life of her husband without his consent, forged his signature on the policy application, and named herself the beneficiary of the policy. She then attempted to murder her husband by poisoning him. According to the South Carolina Supreme Court, the insurance company knew that the husband was unaware of the policy and that the wife had forged his signature. The husband filed suit against the insurance company for the injuries he sustained, alleging that the insurance company's negligent issuance of the policy on his life induced his wife to attempt to murder him for the proceeds.

The South Carolina Supreme Court recognized that a wife generally has an insurable interest on the life of her husband, but nevertheless concluded that, even with the existence of an insurable interest, insurance taken out on the life of another, without consent, was against public policy and void.[9]The court went on to hold that "an insurance company has a duty to use reasonable care not to issue a policy of life insurance in favor of a beneficiary who has obtained such policy without the knowledge or consent of the insured, and this would especially be true, where as here, the company knew or had reason to know that such was the situation."[10]

[golfmom]

At this link ya'll can find an article on how a claim for life insurance benefits is investigated.

http://www.pimall.com/nais/n.dcrdt.html

[Moxie]

After reading the above post, it is clear that if there was a policy the insurance company would investigate and would not pay out until LE cleared Raven. LE has not come out and cleared him as of yet. I know from personal experience insurance companies don't like to pay even the littlest claims on houses, cars whatever. They wouldn't just cut a check and let him on his way. Now,:waitasec: to find out if he had a policy!!

[golfmom]

IF Raven had a policy on Janet, she might not necessarily have known that Raven took one out on her.

http://law.freeadvice.com/insurance_law/insurable_interests.htm

A basic requirement for all types of insurance is the person who buys a policy must have an insurable interest in the subject of the insurance. You have an insurable interest in any property you own or which is in your possession.

For purposes of life insurance, everyone is considered to have an insurable interest in their own lives as well as the lives of their spouses and dependents. For property and casualty insurance, the insurable interest must exist both at the time the insurance is purchased and at the time a loss occurs. For life insurance, the insurable interest only needs to exist at the time the policy is purchased.

[SouthEastSleuth]

I remember clearly from the local Michael Peterson case that the issue of life insurance was raised - there was a large, over $1M policy on Kathleen at the time of her murder. She had changed the beneficiary of the policy from her first husband to Michael, but, had never signed the change form. This caused problems in and of itself, but, the insurance company would NOT pay out any monies on the claim, until there was an arrest, and, subesquent conviction in the case. Only then did the company pay the death benefit.

So even if Raven applied for death benefits, IF there was a life policy on Janet, my guess is there is no way the company will pay, until there is no suspicion of Raven whatsoever by LE.

Another interesting thing to consider - if there was a policy on Janet, was there also one on Raven as well? Boy, I would sure hope so, for his sake I guess - because if not, then that doesn't look too good either I wouldn't think!

[golfmom]

Another interesting thing to consider - if there was a policy on Janet, was there also one on Raven as well? Boy, I would sure hope so, for his sake I guess - because if not, then that doesn't look too good either I wouldn't think!

Either being the operative word considering the long list of things that aren't looking so good for him currently.

It never really occured to me that he wouldn't insure himself. I mean he was the primary bread winner in the family. I would think that Janet being pregnant might trigger them to purchase some extra insurance, but they didn't really reconcile until she was six months along ... hmmmm ... more to ponder.

[Moxie]

Either being the operative word considering the long list of things that aren't looking so good for him currently.

It never really occured to me that he wouldn't insure himself. I mean he was the primary bread winner in the family. I would think that Janet being pregnant might trigger them to purchase some extra insurance, but they didn't really reconcile until she was six months along ... hmmmm ... more to ponder.
Is there a way to find out if there was an insurance policy on Janet, how much, and if Raven has tried to collect?

[Chica]

How long was Janet employed at her last job? It is pretty standard that employers provide life insurance for their employees . . . if not immediately, then after 30 days of employment. It is also common for employees to purchase additional life insurance through their employers.

[Moxie]

I think she had been hired to fill a temporary position first and then was hired on full-time later. So she wasn't really there long enough for this to be feasible. Good thought though.

[golfmom]

I think she had been hired to fill a temporary position first and then was hired on full-time later. So she wasn't really there long enough for this to be feasible. Good thought though.

Lots of companies have a pre-set amount of time (30-60 or 90 days) before they start benefits too. They want to make sure that someone is going to pass the probation period before they start paying out on insurance.

[golfmom]

This insurance question is really weighing heavy on me.

So, here's my question:

Let's say a friend/family member/aquaintance who's wife was brutally murdered solicited you to send money.

Would it bother you finding out at a later date that there was a SUBSTANTIAL life insurance policy in place?

[Jenifred]

A few more things have been bothering me too. If a cousin from AZ really did set up the memorial fund in UT, what business is it of theirs? I know that cousins are can be pretty close, but this is definately not in their job description (nor is it in the job description of a mother-in-law, as I've said before too). And then to enlist children's help to solicit funds for a cause with no purpose? At best it's odd and but more so it's morally defunct. Collecting money for a memorial fund and using poor Kaiden as a pawn to elicit more emotion so more money can be brought in? HELLO!?! I've said it a million times, and I will say it again--RAVEN SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR HIMSELF AND HIS SON!!! And then for someone to write an article about this whole thing is odd to me too. I know that the family members probably had the best of intentions, but keep it in the family--don't get people a few thousand miles away from the murder financially involved.

[ewwwinteresting]

I really didn't know what to entitle this thread. I tried to come up with something clever. Plus, I really don't think his family is doing this for Raven. I honestly and sincerely think their concern is for Kaiden; hence, the neutral title.
Could you even type that with a straight face?

IF Raven's family was sincerly and honestly concerned for Kaiden, then the cousin would have set up a fund for Kaiden in Arizona that Raven couldn't touch. Why not set up a fund in trust for Kaiden? A fund that nobody can touch except Kaiden when he's 18? Why not set up a fund under the minor's act that can only be used for Kaiden's education, etc. This fund was set up to benefit nobody but Raven!

They know Raven is a liar, steals and hasn't been cleared by LE in the murder. They failed to inform potential donars of these facts. If the family, knowing these facts, still want to support Raven, then fine. But for them to solicit funds from strangers and friends all over the country to donate to a fund supposedly for Kaiden, without telling them the whole story, is ludicrous, naive and imo, dishonest!

[ewwwinteresting]

A few more things have been bothering me too. If a cousin from AZ really did set up the memorial fund in UT, what business is it of theirs? I know that cousins are can be pretty close, but this is definately not in their job description (nor is it in the job description of a mother-in-law, as I've said before too). And then to enlist children's help to solicit funds for a cause with no purpose? At best it's odd and but more so it's morally defunct. Collecting money for a memorial fund and using poor Kaiden as a pawn to elicit more emotion so more money can be brought in? HELLO!?! I've said it a million times, and I will say it again--RAVEN SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR HIMSELF AND HIS SON!!! And then for someone to write an article about this whole thing is odd to me too. I know that the family members probably had the best of intentions, but keep it in the family--don't get people a few thousand miles away from the murder financially involved.
You are so right Jenifred! I personally know of story after story of one spouse dying unexpectedly and NONE of the family begged for money. The other spouse (with help from family) bucked up and did what she/he had to do. I don't think it even occured to them to ask strangers for money. Maybe it's a mormon thing?

[snapple]

You are so right Jenifred! I personally know of story after story of one spouse dying unexpectedly and NONE of the family begged for money. The other spouse (with help from family) bucked up and did what she/he had to do. I don't think it even occured to them to ask strangers for money. Maybe it's a mormon thing?
I don't think it is. I know this one mormon family and the Dad died, leaving Mom with four small children. Mom didn't work so they lost the bread winner of the family. It was so sad. The Mom went to work, school and has supported herself and the kids with NO TRUST FUND for more than 5 years now. Life happens and even though it is not what you expected or wanted, you just do what you need to do. Imo, you can accept help, but not beg for money from strangers, particularly when you have been charged with embezzlement.

[snapple]

Could you even type that with a straight face?

IF Raven's family was sincerly and honestly concerned for Kaiden, then the cousin would have set up a fund for Kaiden in Arizona that Raven couldn't touch. Why not set up a fund in trust for Kaiden? A fund that nobody can touch except Kaiden when he's 18? Why not set up a fund under the minor's act that can only be used for Kaiden's education, etc. This fund was set up to benefit nobody but Raven!

They know Raven is a liar, steals and hasn't been cleared by LE in the murder. They failed to inform potential donars of these facts. If the family, knowing these facts, still want to support Raven, then fine. But for them to solicit funds from strangers and friends all over the country to donate to a fund supposedly for Kaiden, without telling them the whole story, is ludicrous, naive and imo, dishonest!
I just noticed that this was a magazine for mormon people in San Diego. Didn't Raven move from San Diego when he was 14 (more than 11 years ago)? So, his grandmother is writing an article in San Diego to donate to a fund in Utah and about how cousins begged for money in Arizona for a woman that was murdered in North Carolina? Does this make sense to anybody else? It feels like people here are being opportunist.

[golfmom]

Abaroa, Robbie - Abaroa Realty (619) 934-3280 259 3rd Ave # F, Chula Vista, CA

http://realtor.1clickguide.com/ca_chula_vista_realtor.html

[newkid]

You are so right Jenifred! I personally know of story after story of one spouse dying unexpectedly and NONE of the family begged for money. The other spouse (with help from family) bucked up and did what she/he had to do. I don't think it even occured to them to ask strangers for money. Maybe it's a mormon thing?
It's not a Mormon thing. Personally I think Raven and maybe other members of his family have no problem asking for and accepting money from other people, even strangers. It's not something I could ever do, but I know plenty of people who are takers and it wouldn't bother them a bit.

I'm not convinced that the cousins set up the trust fund. If it was them though, I think they just got caught up in trying to help any way they could. Then again maybe other members of his family are like Raven and are more concerned with looking good than in actually being good.

[golfmom]

Jeff Thorpe - (480) 325-2703 - 6902 E Medina Ave, Mesa, AZ 85208

[golfmom]

I just noticed that this was a magazine for mormon people in San Diego. Didn't Raven move from San Diego when he was 14 (more than 11 years ago)? So, his grandmother is writing an article in San Diego to donate to a fund in Utah and about how cousins begged for money in Arizona for a woman that was murdered in North Carolina? Does this make sense to anybody else? It feels like people here are being opportunist.

Snapple this is a very good catch! Who wrote this article to be published in San Diego about a family in Mesa AZ who is raising money for a family member in NC. Another one of those things that make you go ... hmmmmm

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[newkid]

This insurance question is really weighing heavy on me.

So, here's my question:

Let's say a friend/family member/aquaintance who's wife was brutally murdered solicited you to send money.

Would it bother you finding out at a later date that there was a SUBSTANTIAL life insurance policy in place?
It would bother me and I would feel as though they had taken advantage of other peoples generosity.

And asking for money at the funeral is so inappropriate anyway!

[snapple]

I'm not convinced that the cousins set up the trust fund. If it was them though, I think they just got caught up in trying to help any way they could. Then again maybe other members of his family are like Raven and are more concerned with looking good than in actually being good.
I think that is exactly right! It seems that the family is more concerned with appearance rather that substance.
What struck me when I read the news article, was that we are talking about a young women that was brutally murdered and the gist of the article was about triple chocolate brownies and how much the Abaroa family is helping...kind of like blowing your own horn was more important. IMO, it seemed to miss the point of how tragic it is that a young mother had died and that her killer is still walking free.

[golfmom]

I think that is exactly right! It seems that the family is more concerned with appearance rather that substance.


and oops they forgot to mention those very important embezzlement charges in that article while they dwelt on brownie making! oh nevermind, that wouldn't reflect well on their appearance.
;)

[Jenifred]

Maybe it's a mormon thing?No, it's not a mormon thing. I think it's an Abaroa thing. Look at how he was raised--taking money where they could get money. And they saw the opportnity to cash in on a funeral and they took it. (BTW, what do people really do with the money that others send them after a loved one dies? I know a family that set up a college scholarship in memory of a daughter, but what do other people do with it?)

And Ewww--you bring up a good point about the fact that the article was written for an audience in CA, when Raven has not lived there for over 14 years! And then they start talking about brownies and lemonade stands in AZ when thousands of miles away and two months ago in NC a woman was stabbed in her home while her 6 month old baby slept in a nearby room. It sounds like, to me, whoever wrote this article was looking for a little noteriety. "Ooo, lookie here what we are doing. Aren't we sooo good?"

BTW, NCBanker--do you have the actual article? How was it given to you? Just curious since I couldn't find it online. I will be horrified if this is passed out to various wards in the San Diego area. Do you know if the newsletter requires subscription?

[golfmom]

Ron and Helen Read, publishers

These are the folks that publish The San Diego Seagull, maybe if we can track them down we might be able to convince them to write another article.

[golfmom]

http://local.yahoo.com/details;_ylt=Ai6sJsUEFsNZe.Y7ag8yYkOHNcIF;_ylu=X3o DMTBpZzIyMjd0BF9zAzk2NjEzNzY5BHNlYwNzcg--?id=20790954&stx=The+San+Diego+Seagull&csz=San+Diego%2C+CA&fr=FP-tab-lcl-t&ed=w3IZR6131Dy69ryPE9IjyAQwOcE9tD51dFYY1PVJenCJ4qI 5s71uV5_D&lcscb=

San Diego Seagull Newspaper
(619) 466-3255

Address:

5882 Samuel St
La Mesa, CA 91942

Cross Street:
Near Bob St

[golfmom]

http://www.lamesacityguide.com/pages/Businesses/cat/185/view/2759?cdir_lamesaci_city=fdf9eb5ccfef8ba806b842a816 423e41
Company: San Diego Seagull
Description: News & Publications
Address: 5882 Samuel St
La Mesa, Ca
91942

Phone: 619-466-3255
Contact Person: Matthew Read

-------
another website listed their hours at 7:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m.

I really wish they had an email address. Is anyone a good phone talker?

[golfmom]

Snapple this is a very good catch! Who wrote this article to be published in San Diego about a family in Mesa AZ who is raising money for a family member in NC. Another one of those things that make you go ... hmmmmm

:eek: :eek: :eek:

I don't know how I keep forgetting important details along the way.

1. the article was published in San Diego geared towards a San Diego market.
2. it attributed family members in Mesa wanting to help i.e., brownie making
3. it would benefit Raven/Kaiden for the loss of Janet which occurred in NC
4. but the requested address to send donations is Utah

hmmmmm

I really think that this paper was snookered into publishing this article.

ETA and how curious is it, in this day in age, that this article was published in a paper that is virtually invisable on the web?

[NCBanker]

BTW, NCBanker--do you have the actual article? How was it given to you? Just curious since I couldn't find it online. I will be horrified if this is passed out to various wards in the San Diego area. Do you know if the newsletter requires subscription?
No, I don't have the original article. It was emailed to me by a concerned individual. I know nothing about the magazine/newsletter, though it appears Golfmom has done quite a bit of sleuthing to uncover its proprietors and their contact information. I think a followup article is certainly in order.

[ewwwinteresting]

BTW, NCBanker--do you have the actual article? How was it given to you? Just curious since I couldn't find it online. I will be horrified if this is passed out to various wards in the San Diego area. Do you know if the newsletter requires subscription?
I was told that it is a subscription and that mostly mormons that live in the San Diego area subscribe. The newspaper is mailed out, not delivered. The newspaper is NOT published online. Some subscribers move, but keep their subscription so it can be mailed to all over. The email address I found for the editor or someone related to the editor is: Email to: kayread@juno.com.

This would jive with what you found out golfmom! So, those that don't want to call, can email. We also have Robbie Abaroa's email and phone number (thanks to golfmom!).

[lauriej]

well..............it does look like a family affair over at the san diego seagull:

San Diego Seagull Newspaper
(619) 466-3255

Contact Person: Matthew Read
Ron and Helen Read, publishers
editor or someone related to the editor is: Email to: kayread@juno.com.

...i foresee kay read getting an inbox full of mail/questions/comments on the article...

...good job ewws and g/m on that contact info!

[juliagoulia]

Mormons love projects. I can just see the Relief Societies (Mormon Women's groups) in the San Diego Wards buzzing with excitement...donating brownies, lemonade, tying quilts, anything that might be helpful or make them feel useful. As the daughter of an RS President, I say that very affectionately! I am sure that there are many people helping the "Memorial" Fund effort who have nothing but the purest intentions. That probably includes the publishers of the newsletter.

BUT...knowing how charming Raven can be...it makes my stomach turn a bit. OK, a LOT... Imagining his whole, extended charming fam damily abusing the generosity of well-meaning people.

You all are so right. Even if his family is concerned about Kaiden (which, I'm sure they are)...they know Raven's history. They can love him, but they can't ignore how he has recklessly handled money in the past. Not to mention the embezzeling. Asking for a nickel that Raven can get his hands on is beyond insulting.

[lauriej]

Mormons love projects. I can just see the Relief Societies (Mormon Women's groups) in the San Diego Wards buzzing with excitement...donating brownies, lemonade, tying quilts, anything that might be helpful or make them feel useful. As the daughter of an RS President, I say that very affectionately! I am sure that there are many people helping the "Memorial" Fund effort who have nothing but the purest intentions. That probably includes the publishers of the newsletter.

BUT...knowing how charming Raven can be...it makes my stomach turn a bit. OK, a LOT... Imagining his whole, extended charming fam damily abusing the generosity of well-meaning people.

You all are so right. Even if his family is concerned about Kaiden (which, I'm sure they are)...they know Raven's history. They can love him, but they can't ignore how he has recklessly handled money in the past. Not to mention the embezzeling. Asking for a nickel that Raven can get his hands on is beyond insulting.
...................exactly....abusing the generosity of well-meaning people.
...from what i've read here on the LDS church & members, i applaud their helping their fellow man............right down to the children doing what they can...

...i also don't fault the cousins ( from arizona ) telling their story to a reporter ( from san diego ) who's reaching out to 'wards' ( in utah) based on the grandmother ( from chula vista ) wanting the story out there, per her daughter ( raven's mom, who PRE-promoted it in NC.................or was it VA ?)

....the utah fund SHOULD be in the name of kaiden................in trust until he is of age...............
...if the mormon women's groups etc are " buzzing with excitement" to add to a fund that raven has access to..............to me, that is the sad part.....

[golfmom]

well..............it does look like a family affair over at the san diego seagull:

San Diego Seagull Newspaper
(619) 466-3255

Contact Person: Matthew Read
Ron and Helen Read, publishers
editor or someone related to the editor is: Email to: kayread@juno.com.


Kewl!!!! an email address! I'm sure that Kay will be receiving quite a few people's :twocents:

[Jenifred]

Kewl!!!! an email address! I'm sure that Kay will be receiving quite a few people's :twocents:
Before I go tearing off an email to this address, are we sure that the email is going to get to the editors of this newsletter?

[golfmom]

Before I go tearing off an email to this address, are we sure that the email is going to get to the editors of this newsletter?

My suggestion is a very kind inquiry if Kay is indeed affiliated with the publication and a nice outline of your interest and concerns. I believe these people have been mislead and taken advantage of.

[altruist1000]

Concerning insurance, Raven would have had the opportunity to insure Janet as his wife though Eurosport Human Resources before she ever started working there, as his spouse & I believe this would have been a rider to his policy. Then through COBRA he could have elected to continue the insurance coverage following his termination & would have had to pay for it. Janet then would have been offerred through Eurosport on her own as the Employee & the same right to continue coverage, as a result of COBRA, would have been offerred at the time she resigned by assuming the liability to make the monthly payments. When a person is in this age category, no physicals are required, the application is filled out & boom the coverage is in force, that goes with all insurance policies, assuming general good health at the time of application.

[NCBanker]

While this is true, the scenario is not likely as most people do not elect COBRA coverage. The cost is astronomical. If they couldn't pay their rent, the last thing they'd be worrying about is health insurance. Their COBRA payment would have been somewhere around $700-$800 per month.

Concerning insurance, Raven would have had the opportunity to insure Janet as his wife though Eurosport Human Resources before she ever started working there, as his spouse & I believe this would have been a rider to his policy. Then through COBRA he could have elected to continue the insurance coverage following his termination & would have had to pay for it. Janet then would have been offerred through Eurosport on her own as the Employee & the same right to continue coverage, as a result of COBRA, would have been offerred at the time she resigned by assuming the liability to make the monthly payments. When a person is in this age category, no physicals are required, the application is filled out & boom the coverage is in force, that goes with all insurance policies, assuming general good health at the time of application.

[golfmom]

While this is true, the scenario is not likely as most people do not elect COBRA coverage. The cost is astronomical. If they couldn't pay their rent, the last thing they'd be worrying about is health insurance. Their COBRA payment would have been somewhere around $700-$800 per month.

I don't know the laws on cobra, but doesn't that apply to medical coverage only, and not life insurance?

[NCBanker]

That's correct.

I don't know the laws on cobra, but doesn't that apply to medical coverage only, and not life insurance?

[ewwwinteresting]

My suggestion is a very kind inquiry if Kay is indeed affiliated with the publication and a nice outline of your interest and concerns. I believe these people have been mislead and taken advantage of.
I agree GM. The individuals that put out the paper are not the "bad" guys, they simply thought the Abaroas would be honest. I hope if we ask politely that they run another followup article with the correct facts and giving the readers an opportunity to donate to the fund set up by Janet's family, they will. The facts, of course, will not show the Abaroas in the "look at us" light and the Abaroas will not be receiving any money from the funds donated to the scholorship fund.....hmmmm.......probably why they just happened to leave these items out!!!

[Jenifred]

Has anyone gotten anything back from the Seagull newsletter email campaign?

[golfmom]

Well, I just wanted to let ya'll know that I emailed my letter. I sure hope I hear something back because I put a lot of time and effort into writing and outlining the case.

Just a suggestion to ya'll that are considering writing please be sure to include information about the scholarship fund that Janet's family has set up in her name. I think it's important that their readership know about the embezzlement charges and the fund that Janet's family supports.

[golfmom]

hmmmm .... if I don't hear something within the next day or so, I just may have to break out my calling card.

[Jenifred]

Was anyone able to check on the trust fund? I thought that someone was going to call the credit union earlier this week. Just wondering if anything was uncovered about who can remove funds.

Plus, any responses from The Seagull?

[lauriej]

Was anyone able to check on the trust fund? I thought that someone was going to call the credit union earlier this week. Just wondering if anything was uncovered about who can remove funds.

Plus, any responses from The Seagull?
IT'sME posted :06/07/05

I just got off the phone with the credit union and was told that the grandpa is the administrator of the fund. The girl that answered the phone called him Boyton or something like that. Her exact words were, "Oh I know....Boyton....the grandpa." So, I'm not sure who this is, but that's what I was told. I'll call again later to see if I can get a full name of the administrator.

..followed by SES:06/07/05

Someone called the CU in Utah to see who the administrator is on the trust fund... they were told the grandfather (meaning Kaiden's grandfather). And it SOUNDS like Bolton, which I assume would be Jim Bolton, Raven's step-dad.
__________________________________________________ _____________

............so, it does sound like raven's step-father ( bolten ) IS the administrator of the fund.....makes sense....he is an electrician..........and the utah fund is set up @ the IBEW credit union...( international brotherhood of electrical workers)

...pretty shady if you ask me..
...a "fund" , set up in janets name.........alegedly to benefit kaiden......set up by raven's cousins...........reaching out to all sorts of church members in various wards in the west.....administered by his mother's husband........therefore: any $$$$'s received could be potentially going straight to raven ?

...and no................i sent an email to the 'seagull' ...........have not rec'd a response....

[JerseyGirl]

So that must be Raven's step-dad, Jim Bolton. Interesting. I was hoping the CU itself might be the administrator.Someone might have mentioned this already but if the person on the phone said off the top of her head "the grandpa", and it is Raven's step-dad, it sounds like the fund IS set up for Kaiden. (At least as far as the people at the bank know.) So it would probably be good to find out what types of guidelines they have on those types of accounts.

[surf_moon_stars]

There should only be ONE memorial fund for Kaiden which was the first one established in her honor and memory.

I know the good intentions are there, but if a memorial fund was established for Kaiden ( by family ) then why would ANY other memorial fund in another state be necessary???

That is my :twocents:

[JerseyGirl]

We had a beautiful baby girl! She weighed 7lbs. 1oz. and is 19" long. Mom and baby are doing well, though things are crazy at home with dad watching the other 2 little ones!Congratulations on your new little girl, NCBanker!!! :)

[Jenifred]

There should only be ONE memorial fund for Kaiden which was the first one established in her honor and memory.

I know the good intentions are there, but if a memorial fund was established for Kaiden ( by family ) then why would ANY other memorial fund in another state be necessary???

That is my :twocents:
s_m_s--There are two memorial funds set up. One at SVU as a scholarship fund for a women's soccer player (as I remember). This is the one that I was told by an employee at SVU that Janet's family endorses.

The other "memorial fund" is set up in Utah. This is the one that we are unclear where the funds can go. Raven's family seems to have set this one up. It's not specifically for Kaiden or Kaiden's future. It is just there to collect money, for what, we don't know and we have been trying to find out. And this is the key. Is this just play money for Raven? Is this really for Kaiden? And why would Kaiden even need a fund to alleviate his future if he's got a father that should be able to work? These are the questions that we need to find out. I personally would also like to know when this "fund" was established. Because the closer and closer to Janet's death that it was set up, the more suspicious I become.

There's lots that has been posted about this and I know it's hard to weed through the posts. Hope this helps.

[ItsMe]

I found this article for banks when setting up these types of accounts. It suggests that it is mostly up to the bank to trust the individual setting up the account to do with the money what is promised. I would assume that Kaiden's name is on the account & his grandpa is just the administrator. Since Kaiden is too young to take out any money, I would imagine that it would be solely his grandpa's decision on where the funds would go. Maybe the account was set up in Utah because Raven has friends and family there. Or, maybe Arizona & California have “statutory support trust” laws that govern these types of accounts where Utah doesn't. Of course, I have not been able to verify this yet. Also, I imagine the IBEW CU is quite small in SLC so they probably know Jim Bolton quite well and it was probably easy to establish. Of course this is all just me thinking........

http://www.bankersonline.com/operations/donations.html (http://www.bankersonline.com/operations/donations.html)

[juliagoulia]

Also, I imagine the IBEW CU is quite small in SLC so they probably know Jim Bolton quite well and it was probably easy to establish. Of course this is all just me thinking........


Good points, ItsMe--and thanks for the article. Perhaps it was Mr. Bolton's personal CU. Perhaps they offrered to set it up free of charge.

Still difficult for me to give the benefit of the doubt ... :confused:

[surf_moon_stars]

Good points, ItsMe--and thanks for the article. Perhaps it was Mr. Bolton's personal CU. Perhaps they offrered to set it up free of charge.

Still difficult for me to give the benefit of the doubt ... :confused:
Thank you so much Jenifred, Itsme and juliagoulia.....

I appreciate the information, and the above from all three of you leads me feeling the same way about why in UT etc.

The next court date is right around the corner, and if he is "lucky" enough to get off with a slap on the wrists for the embezzlement charges, a fine and/ or community service, would he FINALLY break his silence about Janet???

It sounds like Raven has made "UT" part of his plans for his future if or when this court case ends

As nice as the gesture was for this account to be set up in UT, if I were still residing in another state, I would request that the account be set up in NC as this still is his place of residence. Just my thought on that...

Is Raven working right now, does anyone know if he is still employed with the same company? (Wasn't this job paid on commission?)
NOTE: I have to go review, as I think that is what I read, and I am sorry if I made a mistake on that info.

I sure hope he is "not thinking" this memorial fund was provided for Kaiden and him, then I would be very sad about that.

I sure hope that we do hear something soon, as I am thinking of Janet's family and Kaiden daily.

Thank you all for accepting me into this thread, as I feel quite honored to be able to help out in any way I can....I am honored to share my support and a voice for Janet, and I would like to see Justice is absolutely served.....

Happy Weekend to each of you

[ewwwinteresting]

Good points, ItsMe--and thanks for the article. Perhaps it was Mr. Bolton's personal CU. Perhaps they offrered to set it up free of charge.

Still difficult for me to give the benefit of the doubt ... :confused:
Actually, I don't know of any banks that charge. The person on the account can spend it any way they want. The donors can only hope that their money is being spent on the right thing. Whenever I donate, I like to donate directly to the place, i.e., when helping with funeral costs, I donate directly to the funeral home, when helping with hospital bills, I donate directly to the hospital toward the bill, etc. I do not like donating directly to a bank account when I don't know what the money is being spent on. It could be being spent on a lying, cheating, embezzler, possible murderer. The nice people donating to the Utah fund have no assurance of what their hard earned money is being spent on!

[lauriej]

Actually, I don't know of any banks that charge. The person on the account can spend it any way they want. The donors can only hope that their money is being spent on the right thing. Whenever I donate, I like to donate directly to the place, i.e., when helping with funeral costs, I donate directly to the funeral home, when helping with hospital bills, I donate directly to the hospital toward the bill, etc. I do not like donating directly to a bank account when I don't know what the money is being spent on. It could be being spent on a lying, cheating, embezzler, possible murderer. The nice people donating to the Utah fund have no assurance of what their hard earned money is being spent on!
........it IS mind boggling............that a fund set up in utah..........by raven's cousins.........(in arizona ).........adinistered by the grandfather....in janet's name..........to benefit kaiden.........is accesible by raven?

...how many good and decent people in the church on the west coast, have donated to this fund, based on the original "seagull article"?

...if the fund is in fact FOR kaiden...and untouchable until he's of college age...then why ? raven is young...healthy.........and capable of getting a JOB............supporting his son...........

...the memorial scholarship set up by janet's family @ SVU is admirable..........this one set up in utah is questionable.....

[cappuccina]

:) :) :) :) :)

[Moxie]

I found this article for banks when setting up these types of accounts. It suggests that it is mostly up to the bank to trust the individual setting up the account to do with the money what is promised. I would assume that Kaiden's name is on the account & his grandpa is just the administrator. Since Kaiden is too young to take out any money, I would imagine that it would be solely his grandpa's decision on where the funds would go. Maybe the account was set up in Utah because Raven has friends and family there. Or, maybe Arizona & California have “statutory support trust” laws that govern these types of accounts where Utah doesn't. Of course, I have not been able to verify this yet. Also, I imagine the IBEW CU is quite small in SLC so they probably know Jim Bolton quite well and it was probably easy to establish. Of course this is all just me thinking........

http://www.bankersonline.com/operations/donations.html (http://www.bankersonline.com/operations/donations.html)

It is my understanding that the account in Utah was set up in the name of Janet Abaroa as a "memorial fund." This fund was established within a day of her murder? By Raven's family. The account is not in Kaiden's name. The funds are at the discretion of the user. Mr. Jim Bolten? To set up a fund in Kaiden's name a ss# for Kaiden would have been necessary.

[Jenifred]

It is my understanding that the account in Utah was set up in the name of Janet Abaroa as a "memorial fund." This fund was established within a day of her murder? By Raven's family. The account is not in Kaiden's name. The funds are at the discretion of the user. Mr. Jim Bolten? To set up a fund in Kaiden's name a ss# for Kaiden would have been necessary.
Set up within a day of the murder? Goodness that was quick.

I thought that someone was going to call the bank to see about who can withdrawal funds, etc. Any word yet?

[ewwwinteresting]

Set up within a day of the murder? Goodness that was quick.
One word: Opportunist! Obviously announcing it in NC and VA didn't bring enough money (maybe because those people KNEW Raven)....so family goes to AZ and CA where no one knows Raven or knew him when he was little.....gee how convienent!


I thought that someone was going to call the bank to see about who can withdrawal funds, etc. Any word yet?
The person(s) that can withdrawal funds are the ones on the signature card. I highly doubt the bank will tell anybody who is on the signature card since it is private information. The account can be named the Janet Abaroa Memorial Fund and the Administrators can be set up to be anybody. James Bolton can be the Administrator or Co-Administrator with Raven or his mother. Any of the named Administrators can withdraw funds and do whatever they want with it!

[ewwwinteresting]

........it IS mind boggling............that a fund set up in utah..........by raven's cousins.........(in arizona ).........adinistered by the grandfather....in janet's name..........to benefit kaiden.........is accesible by raven?

...how many good and decent people in the church on the west coast, have donated to this fund, based on the original "seagull article"?

...if the fund is in fact FOR kaiden...and untouchable until he's of college age...then why ? raven is young...healthy.........and capable of getting a JOB............supporting his son...........

...the memorial scholarship set up by janet's family @ SVU is admirable..........this one set up in utah is questionable.....
You are so right on lj! There is plenty of time to support Kaiden's college fund. Raven can actually work. It is most likely Raven will remarry and they will have two incomes that can support Kaiden. Throwing Kaiden's name out there to drum up sympathy is pathetic. It's not like Raven had to pay for the funeral or is paying rent or doesn't have a family that can help support him or Kaiden lost both parents. But why do that when they can just beg for free money?

[golfmom]

You are so right on lj! There is plenty of time to support Kaiden's college fund. Raven can actually work. It is most likely Raven will remarry and they will have two incomes that can support Kaiden. Throwing Kaiden's name out there to drum up sympathy is pathetic. It's not like Raven had to pay for the funeral or is paying rent or doesn't have a family that can help support him or Kaiden lost both parents. But why do that when they can just beg for free money?

Well, EI you do realize that Raven is hampered with an extremely high level of debt. Oh wait, he created that mess himself. I think he's filed on a life insurance claim and is trying to sustain until a payout by begging. Damn those insurance companies for not paying out to suspected murderers. LOL

[ewwwinteresting]

Well, EI you do realize that Raven is hampered with an extremely high level of debt. Oh wait, he created that mess himself. I think he's filed on a life insurance claim and is trying to sustain until a payout by begging. Damn those insurance companies for not paying out to suspected murderers. LOL
Ohhh, thank you GM, I forgot about the self imposed debt...stupid me:doh: .....of course strangers and friends, please send as much money that you cannot afford so that poor Raven can keep up that lifestyle he has stole for and is now accustomed to. God forbid he should actually sell anything to pay for his own debt. Hmmm....do we really think that when Raven collects the life insurance, he would be such a good guy and return the money to those that have contributed so innocently to his "fund"? Not betting on it!

[golfmom]

Ohhh, thank you GM, I forgot about the self imposed debt...stupid me:doh: .....of course strangers and friends, please send as much money that you cannot afford so that poor Raven can keep up that lifestyle he has stole for and is now accustomed to. God forbid he should actually sell anything to pay for his own debt. Hmmm....do we really think that when Raven collects the life insurance, he would be such a good guy and return the money to those that have contributed so innocently to his "fund"? Not betting on it!

Or pay back Janet's family for the funeral? Or even catch up on his tax bill?

Can't you just see him saying ...

"I have always relied on the kindness of strangers."

[ewwwinteresting]

Well, EI you do realize that Raven is hampered with an extremely high level of debt. Oh wait, he created that mess himself. I think he's filed on a life insurance claim and is trying to sustain until a payout by begging. Damn those insurance companies for not paying out to suspected murderers. LOL
If Raven had a life insurance on Janet, there must have been a life insurance policy or paperwork in that house. In the search warrant, files were taken from the office...did any of them contain a life insurance policy?

[golfmom]

If Raven had a life insurance on Janet, there must have been a life insurance policy or paperwork in that house. In the search warrant, files were taken from the office...did any of them contain a life insurance policy?

If I was to *speculate* I would bet Mr. P.Ness hid any evidence of a life insurance policy from LE.

[ewwwinteresting]

If I was to *speculate* I would bet Mr. P.Ness hid any evidence of a life insurance policy from LE.
Hmmmm.....true especially if this is premeditated. So, birdman would have a certified copy of her death certificate to submit with the claim, however, the certificate would state under cause of death (homicide-stabbing).....in that case, insurance wouldn't pay out until the outcome of the investigation, right? What if this is a cold case? Is there a time limit that insurance companies have to pay out on a claim if no arrest is made?

[golfmom]

Hmmmm.....true especially if this is premeditated. So, birdman would have a certified copy of her death certificate to submit with the claim, however, the certificate would state under cause of death (homicide-stabbing).....in that case, insurance wouldn't pay out until the outcome of the investigation, right? What if this is a cold case? Is there a time limit that insurance companies have to pay out on a claim if no arrest is made?

IDK, you bring up some very ewwwinteresting points. I do know though that insurance companies hate to pay out and will drag their feet and look for any excuse they can, not to pay a claim.

Also, in the Peterson case there was a $250K life insurance policy that was paid, but it was put in a trust until after the outcome. Because, the law said that Scott could not profit from his actions.

[Moxie]

IDK, you bring up some very ewwwinteresting points. I do know though that insurance companies hate to pay out and will drag their feet and look for any excuse they can, not to pay a claim.

Also, in the Peterson case there was a $250K life insurance policy that was paid, but it was put in a trust until after the outcome. Because, the law said that Scott could not profit from his actions.I am wondering if that is a universal law. Or does this vary state to state? Also, if Raven did kill Janet and could not profit from it. Which I would hope to be the case, would Kaiden get the money in some sort of trust or would the insurance company keep the money?

[golfmom]

EXAMPLE:

http://www.krdotv.com/DisplayStory.asp?id=9606

Wade Mountz lost his wife to murder and now he faces the threat of losing his home because her life insurance policy is refusing to pay. Mountz tells News 13, ”They are using a technicality to keep from paying this claim, they are struggling every way they can.”

........
The policy pay out was denied because Beverly checked a box that says, “never smoked;” when she should have checked the box next to it which indicated that she had not smoked in more than a year.

[golfmom]

I am wondering if that is a universal law. Or does this vary state to state? Also, if Raven did kill Janet and could not profit from it. Which I would hope to be the case, would Kaiden get the money in some sort of trust or would the insurance company keep the money?

Every state's different, so we'll have to research to find out what NC's statutes are.

In the SP case, Laci's family became the heirs to her estate and it was supposed to be treated basically as if SP pre-deceased her.

SP is screwing around though and creating problems for Sharon in getting the life insurance. He doesn't want her to get anything until after all his appeals run out.

[golfmom]

http://www.benefithouse.com/faq/life_insurance/settlement.html

Contested benefits
Insurance companies can refuse to pay death benefits, under certain limited circumstances, if you die within the first two years of a policy. The company's reasons could include:
The insured (now dead) committed fraud when applying for the policy.
The insured did not disclose a material fact on the application.
The insured committed suicide.
A weird happening can waive the two-year limit: If a beneficiary intentionally killed the insured person, the company can refuse to pay a death benefit no matter how long the policy has been in effect. This is true even if a court has not convicted the beneficiary of the murder.

[Moxie]

Every state's different, so we'll have to research to find out what NC's statutes are.

In the SP case, Laci's family became the heirs to her estate and it was supposed to be treated basically as if SP pre-deceased her.

SP is screwing around though and creating problems for Sharon in getting the life insurance. He doesn't want her to get anything until after all his appeals run out.I guess it wasn't enough that he took away her child and her grandchild. He must feel compelled to continue to hurt her always.

[ewwwinteresting]

I am wondering if that is a universal law. Or does this vary state to state? Also, if Raven did kill Janet and could not profit from it. Which I would hope to be the case, would Kaiden get the money in some sort of trust or would the insurance company keep the money?I'm thinking the policy doesn't pay because if Janet wasn't murdered by the beneficiary, she would still be alive.....I know, don't say it.....duh!

My understanding is that they pay out if the person dies naturally or by the hands of someone other than the beneficiary. There is a time limit on suicide though, usually a year?? I'm thinking Raven couldn't have had this policy, if he did, very long because of the financial situation.

[ewwwinteresting]

http://www.benefithouse.com/faq/life_insurance/settlement.html

Contested benefits
Insurance companies can refuse to pay death benefits, under certain limited circumstances, if you die within the first two years of a policy. The company's reasons could include:
The insured (now dead) committed fraud when applying for the policy.
The insured did not disclose a material fact on the application.
The insured committed suicide.
A weird happening can waive the two-year limit: If a beneficiary intentionally killed the insured person, the company can refuse to pay a death benefit no matter how long the policy has been in effect. This is true even if a court has not convicted the beneficiary of the murder.
Thanks for backing up my understanding with facts GM :)

[ewwwinteresting]

http://www.benefithouse.com/faq/life_insurance/settlement.html

Contested benefits
Insurance companies can refuse to pay death benefits, under certain limited circumstances, if you die within the first two years of a policy. The company's reasons could include:
The insured (now dead) committed fraud when applying for the policy.
The insured did not disclose a material fact on the application.
The insured committed suicide.
A weird happening can waive the two-year limit: If a beneficiary intentionally killed the insured person, the company can refuse to pay a death benefit no matter how long the policy has been in effect. This is true even if a court has not convicted the beneficiary of the murder.
Ok, this is big! I bet Raven didn't know this information.:doh:

If there was a policy on Janet's life and it was taken out recently, talk about having one "smoking gun" premeditated evidence for the DA!

[golfmom]

Ok, this is big! I bet Raven didn't know this information.:doh:

If there was a policy on Janet's life and it was taken out recently, talk about having one "smoking gun" premeditated evidence for the DA!

I found this by searching the following string

"North Carolina" "Life Insurance" Murder

[ewwwinteresting]

I found this by searching the following string

"North Carolina" "Life Insurance" Murder
Giving away your secrets super sleuther? :)

There is a big possibility Raven didn't read the fine print before setting his agenda in motion......which is now why he has his family begging for money from various states? Can't get money one way, try another?

[golfmom]

Giving away your secrets super sleuther? :)

There is a big possibility Raven didn't read the fine print before setting his agenda in motion......which is now why he has his family begging for money from various states? Can't get money one way, try another?

I like to share the wealth. :angel:

[ewwwinteresting]

This is actually making much more sense to me now. Raven's family arrives in NC/VA for the funeral asking Raven what are you going to do? Well, I have a life insurance policy on Janet so that will help. Let me see it. Uhhh Raven if Janet was murdered within 2 years, it may not pay out. Oh, I didn't notice that. What am I going to do? No worries, this is a tragic event, we will play off the sympathy and ask everyone to contribute money.

[golfmom]

This is actually making much more sense to me now. Raven's family arrives in NC/VA for the funeral asking Raven what are you going to do? Well, I have a life insurance policy on Janet so that will help. Let me see it. Uhhh Raven if Janet was murdered within 2 years, it may not pay out. Oh, I didn't notice that. What am I going to do? No worries, this is a tragic event, we will play off the sympathy and ask everyone to contribute money.

LOL ... I'm thinking that he thinks once this little murder thing is cleared up that there's gonna be a big pay day. The hell with everyone who's supported him along the way.

[SouthEastSleuth]

As a point of reference -

In the Michael Peterson case, also local in NC, there was a million dollar or so policy on the wife who was murdered, Kathleen. The insurance company refused to pay out the policy until after the case was totally resolved - after Michael was found guilty. The beneficiary of the original policy was Kathleen's FIRST husband, but, she had completed the paperwork awhile back to change the beneficiary to Michael (althought she never actually signed the paperwork) , so all of that complicated things a little. In the end, the death claim was paid out to both the first husband, interestingly enough, and Kathleen's natural daughter - nothing to Michael.

[ewwwinteresting]

As a point of reference -

In the Michael Peterson case, also local in NC, there was a million dollar or so policy on the wife who was murdered, Kathleen. The insurance company refused to pay out the policy until after the case was totally resolved - after Michael was found guilty. The beneficiary of the original policy was Kathleen's FIRST husband, but, she had completed the paperwork awhile back to change the beneficiary to Michael (althought she never actually signed the paperwork) , so all of that complicated things a little. In the end, the death claim was paid out to both the first husband, interestingly enough, and Kathleen's natural daughter - nothing to Michael.
Of course this was a policy that was in existence for some time, correct? Not one that Michael obtained on her shortly before he murdered her! I'm thinking they wouldn't have paid out unless the policy was existing for some time.

[golfmom]

*A Weird Happening* seems to be common language for life insurance policies. I've specifically found this language, over and over again out on the web.

A weird happening can waive the two-year limit: If a beneficiary intentionally killed the insured person, the company can refuse to pay a death benefit no matter how long the policy has been in effect. This is true even if a court has not convicted the beneficiary of the murder.
......

The way I read this, Sharon Rocha wouldn't have even been able to collect on the $250,000 policy that Scott had on Laci. :waitasec:

And I know for a fact that the policy was paid out.

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/10825178p-11600185c.html

Scott Peterson won't give up his claim to more than $250,000 from an insurance policy on his dead wife, even though state law says people who kill their spouses forfeit their rights as a beneficiary.

As a result, an attorney for Laci Peterson's mother, Sharon Rocha, on Tuesday filed paperwork asking the Stanislaus County Superior Court to turn over the money, in spite of the death row inmate's objection.

[snapple]

Of course this was a policy that was in existence for some time, correct? Not one that Michael obtained on her shortly before he murdered her! I'm thinking they wouldn't have paid out unless the policy was existing for some time.
Would Raven have been that stupid to murder his wife shortly after obtaining a life insurance policy? Talk about a red flag!

[golfmom]

Would Raven have been that stupid to murder his wife shortly after obtaining a life insurance policy? Talk about a red flag!

Well, they moved back in together in May of '04. Any policy purchased after that date is suspect IMHO. Raven can try and say he purchased a policy because Janet was pregnant, but:

1. Raven was the primary bread winner and a large policy on Janet would be completely unncessary.

2. They were obviously struggling financially. Raven began embezzling in July '04. It doesn't make sense buy a policy under these circumstances.

[ewwwinteresting]

Well, they moved back in together in May of '04. Any policy purchased after that date is suspect IMHO. Raven can try and say he purchased a policy because Janet was pregnant, but:

1. Raven was the primary bread winner and a large policy on Janet would be completely unncessary.

2. They were obviously struggling financially. Raven began embezzling in July '04. It doesn't make sense buy a policy under these circumstances.
I am just realizing that Raven and Janet were separated in January 2004 so there was 4 or 5 months of the very likely possibility of Raven running up MORE debt. Maybe when they reconciled, Janet didn't know about this extra debt. Instead of being an upstanding guy and telling the truth, Raven started stealing in July 2004 to cover the unknown debt. It's been confirmed that Janet didn't know about the embezzlement and if he was making payments on unknown debt, she wouldn't have noticed the extra money either. Talk about a snowball effect.....which lead right to murder??

[JerseyGirl]

Or even catch up on his tax bill?Are you clairvoyant, GM??? Or maybe Raven read your idea, and thought, :doh: , "Oh yeah! I can use some trust fund money to pay my tax bill!"

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Big Boy Toys (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=738101&postcount=197)

[snapple]

I remember reading that the 'seagull newspaper' is a monthly publication. Any chance someone could get their hands on an Aug edition to see if the paper printed some sort of retraction or clarification?? Would it be too much to hope for that they would print Raven's impending embezzlement charges???

[ewwwinteresting]

I remember reading that the 'seagull newspaper' is a monthly publication. Any chance someone could get their hands on an Aug edition to see if the paper printed some sort of retraction or clarification?? Would it be too much to hope for that they would print Raven's impending embezzlement charges???
I know several of us have emailed the newspaper's editor with no response. Maybe more of the posters here can send an email also! Results in numbers?? I'm not counting on them actually printing the truth of this story, but hopefully I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[ewwwinteresting]

I remember reading that the 'seagull newspaper' is a monthly publication. Any chance someone could get their hands on an Aug edition to see if the paper printed some sort of retraction or clarification?? Would it be too much to hope for that they would print Raven's impending embezzlement charges???Just received confirmed information that the mormon seagull newspaper for August contained NO update information about raven. I was informed there were no letters to the editor, nothing! Seems our emails and/or phone calls have been ignored and they are not going to correct or supplement the information previously printed.

[JerseyGirl]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - The word "hurt" in m (http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=818824&postcount=67)

[golfmom]

Using a memorial fund as a personal fund raiser is outrageous.

Do you think the amount they collected covered Raven's fine for FELONY (not misdemeanor) embezzlement?

[LTUlegal]

Using a memorial fund as a personal fund raiser is outrageous.

Do you think the amount they collected covered Raven's fine for FELONY (not misdemeanor) embezzlement?I think it's pretty sad that CHILDREN were selling lemonade to raise money for this fund so that Raven could buy more toys for HIMSELF! :snooty:

eta: referring back to the article in post #1 on this thread: http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25831&page=1

[ewwwinteresting]

I think it's deplorable that raven (and his mother/stepfather?) used janet's murder to raise money. The fuhd was set up at raven's stepfather's credit union. I would think only they could have set up this account. AND to know that they did it within hours of Janet dying a brutal death. She died at 10:55 pm and what, the bank opened at 9:00 a.m., and a fund is set up? This is beyond outrageous.

Ok, what about this? raven confesses to his mother that morning that he killed Janet and his mother realizes she possibly could only have a short time to raise money from this tragedy -- imminent arrest? Does anything else make sense? Why else would a fund be set up so soon and without Janet's family's support? They support the Janet Abaroa Scholorship Fund.....not the Buy Toys For Raven and Pay for his Defense fund!!

[golfmom]

It seems obvious to me that Janet's family was uncomfortable with the "Support Raven's New Toys, Pay his Felony (not misdemeanor) Fees, and Pay for His Defense Attorney's Fund" either. Otherwise why would they have pushed starting a scholarship in her name over asking everyone to hand over their money to Raven?

Did the Abaroa's even ask them or consider their feelings when coming up with the lame idea of a *memorial* fund?

[JerseyGirl]

Honestly, I can see someone creating a memorial fund. And if it was a cousin of Raven's, they were probably far enough removed from the situation, (perhaps they didn't know Janet very well), to do so. HOWEVER, IF this fund was set up the next morning, while Janet's family still didn't even know the truth about what happened to her, not only was it jumping the gun, it does seem a bit offensive as well.

Good, thought-provoking point about the scholarship fund endorsed by Janet's family.

[golfmom]

Just to pass along an unconfirmed tip I received a long time ago, Raven supposedly had Janet sign some papers just days before her murder. Janet wouldn't come out and say what exactly was in those papers, but her friend felt that Janet was afraid.

Again, I got this from only one source and it is unconfirmed.

[JerseyGirl]

Hopefully time will tell us what was in those papers.

Do you remember when we were trying to figure out the location of some papers mentioned in the search warrant (?)? Did we ever determine if those papers were scattered on the floor or if they were in the closet? Interesting to wonder if there was some paperwork missing that night as well or if those papers may have been scattered in order to account for any missing paperwork should the police determine that something specific was missing.

[golfmom]

Hopefully time will tell us what was in those papers.

Do you remember when we were trying to figure out the location of some papers mentioned in the search warrant (?)? Did we ever determine if those papers were scattered on the floor or if they were in the closet? Interesting to wonder if there was some paperwork missing that night as well or if those papers may have been scattered in order to account for any missing paperwork should the police determine that something specific was missing.

You pose some interesting questions regarding the papers scattered JG.

One of the things that rings true about the story of Janet being frightened and signing papers is the fact that co-workers were afraid for her safety. Consider that with just a report on the news that a woman had been murdered in the general area that Janet lived combined with them not being able to reach Janet was enough to send them to her house worried that it was her that was murdered.

So, what exactly was it that triggered this fear in them that it might have been Janet who was murdered? Was it that Janet shared with someone that Raven had her sign some papers and that she was afraid for her safety?

[JerseyGirl]

So, what exactly was it that triggered this fear in them that it might have been Janet who was murdered? Was it that Janet shared with someone that Raven had her sign some papers and that she was afraid for her safety?Let's hope that if Raven is the perp, that he was stupid enough to have her sign some insurance papers days before her murder, and that he tried to collect on them within days after her murder.

[terminatrixator]

I have been pondering this question, and is Raven really that stupid, to have Janet sign papers days before he murders her?????

I mean, I know that he's not even close to being the brightest guy in the world, and his intelligence is quite lacking, but to be that dumb, would leave me to believe, if they do arrest Raven, for Janet's murder, he will be going for a defense based on an extremely LOWWWWWWWWW IQ and wasn't smart enough to know what he was doing.

[JerseyGirl]

Terminatrixator, I would have to agree that one would need to be REALLY stupid to do something like that. But it's my wishful thinking focus for the day. I'm just hoping that if and when the perp is arrested, that there is a MOUNTAIN of insurmountable evidence.

[golfmom]

I was thinking that maybe it had to do with the house they were renting (NOT OWNING - lol), but I can't imagine why Janet would be afraid to tell her friends what was in those papers then.

Unless she was embarassed that they were renting (NOT OWNING) and had just found out.

[BirdHunter]

I think it's deplorable that raven (and his mother/stepfather?) used janet's murder to raise money. The fuhd was set up at raven's stepfather's credit union. I would think only they could have set up this account. AND to know that they did it within hours of Janet dying a brutal death. She died at 10:55 pm and what, the bank opened at 9:00 a.m., and a fund is set up? This is beyond outrageous.

Ok, what about this? raven confesses to his mother that morning that he killed Janet and his mother realizes she possibly could only have a short time to raise money from this tragedy -- imminent arrest? Does anything else make sense? Why else would a fund be set up so soon and without Janet's family's support? They support the Janet Abaroa Scholorship Fund.....not the Buy Toys For Raven and Pay for his Defense fund!!Heaven help us all if you are right on this ewwwinteresting.

[Jenifred]

Heaven help us all if you are right on this ewwwinteresting.
Wouldn't heaven just need to help those Abaroas? Why include the rest of us with them?

Welcome BirdHunter. Good to have you here. I also enjoy your name.

[LTUlegal]

I think it's deplorable that raven (and his mother/stepfather?) used janet's murder to raise money. The fuhd was set up at raven's stepfather's credit union. I would think only they could have set up this account. AND to know that they did it within hours of Janet dying a brutal death. She died at 10:55 pm and what, the bank opened at 9:00 a.m., and a fund is set up? This is beyond outrageous.

Ok, wha