Interesting Commentary re Duncan

[BillyGoatGruff]

Found this online. It's a fascianting dissection of what Duncan is REALLY saying in his blogs, whether he knew it or not. There are also (booking) pics of him as a child!

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/000832.html

[Shazzie]

Found this online. It's a fascianting dissection of what Duncan is REALLY saying in his blogs, whether he knew it or not. There are also (booking) pics of him as a child!

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/000832.html
Thanks for the link. This is very fascinating (and at the same time disturbing) stuff indeed!

[BillyGoatGruff]

Thanks for the link. This is very fascinating (and at the same time disturbing) stuff indeed!The same writer's commentary on BTK (from written confession transcripts) is equally compelling.

[newtv]

Found this online. It's a fascianting dissection of what Duncan is REALLY saying in his blogs, whether he knew it or not. There are also (booking) pics of him as a child!

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/000832.html
thanku - good reading and I actually look forward to them pulling the site-its really just feeding his need to be talked about or "heard", etc.
If I had my way these guys would never hear a word about themselves from society.

[lacegrl130]

This is from people who live in Minn.

Perks of the dean's list

The utter cluelessness on display in this Star Tribune article on the $15,000 bail set for Level 3 sex offender Joseph Duncan in Detroit Lakes, Minnesota is both mind-boggling and enraging: "Duncan release raises what-ifs." After making bail on a charge in Detroit Lakes, Duncan appears to have gone on the rape/murder spree that has been in the national news over the past few weeks.

The chief what-ifs the story raises in my mind are: What if the authorities knew what they are doing? What if Minnesota criminal law treated sex offenses as a function of compulsive behavior? Those aren't the what-ifs the reporter has in mind, but take a look:

Judge Thomas Schroeder and attorneys in the Becker County case knew that Duncan had served a lengthy prison sentence in Washington state for a sex crime years ago and that he was a registered sex offender.

But they weighed that against the fact that he was a dean's list student at North Dakota State University, held a steady job and had a clean record since leaving prison in 2000.

Yet, there was no mention in Schroeder's courtroom that Duncan had been classified as a Level 3 sex offender, considered the most likely to reoffend. Becker County Attorney Joe Evans said his office also did not know before making its bail recommendation last spring that Duncan was sent to prison in Washington state in 1982 because he failed sex offender treatment. That suggests Duncan was not dealing with the problems that led to his violent acts.

Evans said he was unaware of the details of Duncan's crime: that he raped and tortured a 14-year-old boy at gunpoint when he was just 16.

Just the same, Evans said, knowing that information probably would not have made any difference. (Schroeder referred all questions to the state court administrator's office.)

And this:
Duncan, Evans said, was charged with a crime -- sexually touching a child without force -- for which the state's guidelines recommend a non-prison sentence even for someone with Duncan's record.

The county attorney also noted that his office asked for $25,000 bail and that the judge set bail at $15,000. Duncan posted $15,000 cash bail, which means that he had the money to get a much higher bail bond if the judge had set a higher amount to compel him to make his next court appearance.

And to prosecutors, Duncan appeared to have "made a successful adjustment" to life outside prison, Evans said.

Minnesota's local law enforcement authorities have ready access to relatively up-to-date, basic data about a defendant's past. Still, judges and attorneys acknowledge they don't always have detailed information at the time bail is set for a new charge.

Getting detailed information about prior convictions in other states is more problematic, prosecutors say.

But at least three ominous signs in Duncan's past cited by several prosecutors and law professors were known to attorneys in Duncan's Becker County case. First, he was a rapist who served more than 15 years in a Washington prison. And second, he used a gun to commit the assault.

"If somebody spends that much time in prison, you don't need to know much else. Just the length of time tells you it was a serious offense," said Barry Feld, a University of Minnesota law professor.

I was Professor Feld's student in criminal procedure at the University of Minnesota Law School. He is, it should be noted, an ACLU-style liberal on issues of criminal justice.

[Cowgirl]

I think the biggest factor in going easy on Duncan was that he was just 16 when he first offended. Many such records are sealed and judges don't even get forced to deal with them, thus making it easy for them to totally ignore what an offender does prior to age 18 unless it is murder.

That, coupled with psychology not being an exact science (Duncan had been diagnosed as a sexual sadist), allows judges to overlook what the shrinks say and look only at the current event.

I agree on most of the assessment of his blog in the link provided. Most people use a blog to vent their true feelings, but Duncan knew no one would accept his true feelings--those which compel him to do evil things. That's why he would have another encrypted blog, where he could mutter his evil rantings with abandon. He used his public blog to shop his "pretend persona" around and see what kind of response he would get to his whining, pretending, and righteous indignation over being a once "falsely accused and convicted sex offender" and having to deal with registration as a result. His laments about "society" forcing criminal activities on him are ridiculous. No one commits sex crimes without a proclivity to do it in the first place.

To those who even halfway believe his nonsense about being a victim himself, I read what he said inferring his father had raped him, and he never actually says that. He talks about incest and then says some nonsense about how incest is just a word that designates boundaries. When I read it, I concluded that he had never been touched by his father and that he had kinky ideas in his head about his father which he turned around and blamed on him. Not all perverts have been victims themselves. I wish we could get away from the excuses.

[Dara]

He also says (http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5498829.html) his father (and his mother) rejected him.

"I am beginning to learn why I raped that 14-year-old boy," Duncan wrote in a somewhat garbled entry while in a treatment program. "It was an outlet for my feelings this time I took to rejections. One from my mother & one from my father."
Garbled is right. More blaming everyone else, imo, but adds more to the puzzle.

[Cowgirl]

He also says (http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5498829.html) his father (and his mother) rejected him.


Garbled is right. More blaming everyone else, imo, but adds more to the puzzle.Blaming everyone and everything else seems to be a theme with these child molesters, doesn't it? "I never had a childhood" comes to mind...

[mysteriew]

From what I read Duncan wrote a story in his blog about a father having sexual feelings for his son, but nothing like "incest" actually occurred.
The story about him being raped- he allegedly told psychatrist's at the Wash. state hosp. that he was raped by female relatives, which in another article they expanded saying he was raped by his sisters. He later recanted that story. That is the only info I have seen about his allegeded rapes. Has someone seen anything that actually says that he was raped by his father?

[Cowgirl]

From what I read Duncan wrote a story in his blog about a father having sexual feelings for his son, but nothing like "incest" actually occurred.
The story about him being raped- he allegedly told psychatrist's at the Wash. state hosp. that he was raped by female relatives, which in another article they expanded saying he was raped by his sisters. He later recanted that story. That is the only info I have seen about his allegeded rapes. Has someone seen anything that actually says that he was raped by his father?The only reference I saw is the same one you are talking about -- the one where a thinly veiled character "Jan" mentions that incest is just a word and blah X 3, wanting the reader to think his father did something he should not have done. I made my own armchair analysis of that story as his wanting the reader to think his father did something to him and say, oh, poor Joe. The word incest means one thing and one thing only: sex with a relative. There is no such thing as psychological incest! If it is all in your head, it may be incestuous fantasy and I think Duncan had that. But I just am not willing to believe that every pervert is a victim and I know victims who would never offend, so it is still a choice.

I would not even trust his encrypted whining. He lies even to himself.

[dbmthur]

He also says (http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/5498829.html) his father (and his mother) rejected him.


Garbled is right. More blaming everyone else, imo, but adds more to the puzzle.
I caught this from the article you refered to...


In 2000, when Duncan finished a 20-year prison sentence, the Washington Department of Corrections thought about keeping him in prison for life. But the agency's sentence-review committee decided he didn't qualify as a sexual predator, so authorities couldn't use the state's civil commitment law to keep him behind bars indefinitely How could someone who raped and tortured (because in a way that is what he did) another child not be concidered a sexual predator? Because he didn't do it again (or at least didn't get caught)...but he was labeled a level lll sex offender, most likely to reoffend? Doesn't make sense to me....

[Cowgirl]

I caught this from the article you refered to...



How could someone who raped and tortured (because in a way that is what he did) another child not be concidered a sexual predator? Because he didn't do it again (or at least didn't get caught)...he was in prison no way of knowing if he would do it again...but he was labeled a level lll sex offender, most likely to reoffend? Doesn't make sense to me....I think, once again, Duncan benefited from the fact that he had been locked up so long. At the time he was incarcerated, they did not have any kind of civil commitment and they may not have used the terminology "sexual predator" in regard to him. He was a Level 3 sex offender and was diagnosed as a sexual sadist, so I, like you, would assume that would also qualify him for sexual predator status. I think that little difference in terminology allowed this sicko to get out on a technicality. It is almost more alarming that they considered him for civil commitment but didn't find a way to do it. If it had not even occurred to them because he discharged (completed) his prison term, it would almost be less disturbing than to consider they looked at him in this "predator" light and let him go anyway!

[BillyGoatGruff]

I think the biggest factor in going easy on Duncan was that he was just 16 when he first offended. Many such records are sealed and judges don't even get forced to deal with them, thus making it easy for them to totally ignore what an offender does prior to age 18 unless it is murder.

That, coupled with psychology not being an exact science (Duncan had been diagnosed as a sexual sadist), allows judges to overlook what the shrinks say and look only at the current event.

I agree on most of the assessment of his blog in the link provided. Most people use a blog to vent their true feelings, but Duncan knew no one would accept his true feelings--those which compel him to do evil things. That's why he would have another encrypted blog, where he could mutter his evil rantings with abandon. He used his public blog to shop his "pretend persona" around and see what kind of response he would get to his whining, pretending, and righteous indignation over being a once "falsely accused and convicted sex offender" and having to deal with registration as a result. His laments about "society" forcing criminal activities on him are ridiculous. No one commits sex crimes without a proclivity to do it in the first place.

To those who even halfway believe his nonsense about being a victim himself, I read what he said inferring his father had raped him, and he never actually says that. He talks about incest and then says some nonsense about how incest is just a word that designates boundaries. When I read it, I concluded that he had never been touched by his father and that he had kinky ideas in his head about his father which he turned around and blamed on him. Not all perverts have been victims themselves. I wish we could get away from the excuses.
His comments re incest could also be his attempt to exculpate himself from molesting siblings. Which would explain his family's less-than-thrilled attitude about having him presnt during Thanksgiving.

[Cowgirl]

His comments re incest could also be his attempt to exculpate himself from molesting siblings. Which would explain his family's less-than-thrilled attitude about having him presnt during Thanksgiving.You are right about his family! Some people may be reluctant about being video'd but there was a whole different dynamic going on with his siblings on that holiday. I don't think I would visit people who acted that way around me, but I guess you cannot change who your relatives are. You certainly cannot make them like you if they don't and you surely could tell they would have had a better time without him there. It looked like they didn't even like the idea that he would have pictures of them, and who could blame them?

[Sofia]

I caught this from the article you refered to...


How could someone who raped and tortured (because in a way that is what he did) another child not be concidered a sexual predator? Because he didn't do it again (or at least didn't get caught)...but he was labeled a level lll sex offender, most likely to reoffend? Doesn't make sense to me....I'm not sure what WA law is, but here in CA we have a law that allows child molesters that meet certain criteria to be committed to a mental institution after they have served their prison sentence. Perhaps that's what is meant by not being 'considered' a predator. The qualifications in this state are that you have to have committed at least two offenses. I'll see if I can find the other criteria. Just wanting to commit someone doesn't mean the law will allow you. I just feel fortunate that at least our state has this much on the books; there are only about 20 states that do, I believe. You should find out if your state is one and if it's not, write your legislatures. The consititutional challenges have so far held up.

[Sofia]

http://www.dmh.cahwnet.gov/SOCP/faqs.asp#3

What are the criteria for commitment as a sexually violent predator?

An SVP must meet all of the following criteria:

1. Be approaching the end of a prison term in the Department of Corrections (CDC) or have been revoked from parole by the Board of Prison Terms (BPT). The individual must also have a criminal history which indicates a conviction for specified sex offenses committed by force, violence, duress, menace or fear of injury of a victim or another person. A person about to be released from CDC custody must be evaluated with respect to the following:

a) The specified sexual acts include rape, sodomy, oral copulation, spousal rape, or lewd or lascivious acts with a child;

b) The specified sex offense involved two or more victims;

c) The offenses were directed toward a stranger, a person of casual acquaintance with whom no substantial relationship exists or an individual with whom a relationship was established or promoted for the primary purpose of victimization.

2. Be determined by the Department of Mental Health to have a diagnosed mental disorder that makes the person a danger to others in that the person is likely to engage in sexually violent predatory behavior upon release. The statute provides a definition of "substantial sexual conduct" relative to lewd and lascivious acts with a person under age 14. Such substantial sexual conduct does not require the presence of force, violence, duress, menace or fear of injury.

[Cowgirl]

I'm not sure what WA law is, but here in CA we have a law that allows child molesters that meet certain criteria to be committed to a mental institution after they have served their prison sentence. Perhaps that's what is meant by not being 'considered' a predator. The qualifications in this state are that you have to have committed at least two offenses. I'll see if I can find the other criteria. Just wanting to commit someone doesn't mean the law will allow you. I just feel fortunate that at least our state has this much on the books; there are only about 20 states that do, I believe. You should find out if your state is one and if it's not, write your legislatures. The consititutional challenges have so far held up.Well, it may have been as simple as the difference between the words "committed" and "convicted" of a crime. Duncan had committed a string of violent assaults in his younger days as a juvenile. He went to prison for the 20 year sentence after one violent assault at age 16 but admitted to others and in fact was involved in prison violence in 1999, the year before he was released. Could it be he had to have been convicted of more than one crime in order to be called a predator in Washington? Perhaps.

[BillyGoatGruff]

From what I read Duncan wrote a story in his blog about a father having sexual feelings for his son, but nothing like "incest" actually occurred.
The story about him being raped- he allegedly told psychatrist's at the Wash. state hosp. that he was raped by female relatives, which in another article they expanded saying he was raped by his sisters. He later recanted that story. That is the only info I have seen about his allegeded rapes. Has someone seen anything that actually says that he was raped by his father?
Apparently he admitted to tying up and raping at least 10 other young boys between the ages of 10-14 besides the one he was arrested and tried for. He then recanted, but apparently what he admitted to resulted in his being deied probation, or something like that.

[Cowgirl]

Apparently he admitted to tying up and raping at least 10 other young boys between the ages of 10-14 besides the one he was arrested and tried for. He then recanted, but apparently what he admitted to resulted in his being deied probation, or something like that.When he was sentenced to twenty years for raping that 14 year old boy at gunpoint and burning him and terrorizing him, the sentence was suspended (probably because he was only 16), with the provision that he would go to an inpatient treatment center at Western State Hospital in Steilacoom, WA. While he was in the program he was diagnosed as passive/aggressive with schizoid features and a sexual sadist. He left the grounds twice to go peep in people's windows and because of the history he had given them there (multiple rapes for years which he later tried to recant) it was decided he was not conforming to the program and he was sent to the state pen to do that 20 years in 1982. After a total of 14 years of confinement (including the hospital) he was released on parole in 1994. He violated parole several times when he was caught with pot, a gun, and 3 contacts with minors. But each time he was given another chance with stricter reporting rules. Finally he tried to escape (taking off without permission) and in August of 1997 the FBI picked him up in Kansas City. Despite Dr Wacksman trying to plead his case and offering to sponsor him, his parole was revoked and he was finally sent back to the state pen. Despite all these infractions along with escape and failure to register, they didn't bother to indict him for any of it -- they just revoked his parole. He went back to prison to finish the original 20 years and they let him out in 2000.

So despite all these times he broke the law, he only had that conviction at age 16 on his felony sheet! What nonsense. But I have to say, this is typical of a criminal's rap sheet. Many, many arrests and a few convictions. That is why when I hear "innocent until proven guilty," I say it is just crapola. Most of the time with criminals it is more like "guilty more times than we can count and we finally got him cold" and that is why they get indicted. Please don't bother about the wrongfully accused. They are one in a million.

[Linda7NJ]

He certainly started sexually abusing children long before he was 16, he just wasn't caught & convicted! IMO

[grisall]

Hello,



I'm new to webslueth.com but I have a few comments (perhaps someone has already thought of these).



Did you know that J. Dunkan bought 7 items on ebay as jetd63?



http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=jetd63 (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=jetd63)



Although they are "old" purchases, at least one seller seems to sell childrens things and another seems to sell "spiritual" books.



This leads to comment #2. Everyone says "Blogging the Fifth Nail" refers to the gypsy legend about the 5th nail of the crucifixion that was stolen by the gypsys. It was the 4th nail that was stolen. If anyone can refer me to a story about gypsys and a 5th nail I would like to see it (perhaps I'm wrong).



Comment #2a: searching the web for anything about five nails returns references to the Kama Sutra. From what I could tell, scratching with five nails is called a “Peacocks Foot.” Maybe someone with more time than me can find another meaning for the “fifth nail”



J. Duncan refers to himself as “Happy Joe” in at least one place. Well, a google search shows a “Happy Joes Pizza and Ice Cream” place in Fargo. Sounds like a kids kind of place and there may be other Happy Joes Pizza places in other towns—wonder if there is one in the town that that other little girl disappeared from—perhaps this was a place Duncan went to find kids.



Happy Joe's Pizza & Ice Cream
(701) 293-5252
2511 University Dr S
Fargo, ND 58103

[Tom'sGirl]

Hello,



I'm new to webslueth.com but I have a few comments (perhaps someone has already thought of these).



Did you know that J. Dunkan bought 7 items on ebay as jetd63?



http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=jetd63 (http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=jetd63)



Although they are "old" purchases, at least one seller seems to sell childrens things and another seems to sell "spiritual" books.



This leads to comment #2. Everyone says "Blogging the Fifth Nail" refers to the gypsy legend about the 5th nail of the crucifixion that was stolen by the gypsys. It was the 4th nail that was stolen. If anyone can refer me to a story about gypsys and a 5th nail I would like to see it (perhaps I'm wrong).



Comment #2a: searching the web for anything about five nails returns references to the Kama Sutra. From what I could tell, scratching with five nails is called a “Peacocks Foot.” Maybe someone with more time than me can find another meaning for the “fifth nail”



J. Duncan refers to himself as “Happy Joe” in at least one place. Well, a google search shows a “Happy Joes Pizza and Ice Cream” place in Fargo. Sounds like a kids kind of place and there may be other Happy Joes Pizza places in other towns—wonder if there is one in the town that that other little girl disappeared from—perhaps this was a place Duncan went to find kids.



Happy Joe's Pizza & Ice Cream
(701) 293-5252
2511 University Dr S
Fargo, ND 58103
Welcome grisall to WS, good first post!

[SimonSays]

I'm new too, but like the previous poster, I checked on ebay a few days ago to see if I could find one of his known online user names, and came across the same one you did. Also, I read his entire blog, skimming parts of it, but I found an entry where he says that he invited his neighbor (female) over one day to look at his new collection of greeting cards. Well, I did some research that day that I found his ebay account, and one of the sellers he bought from specializes in selling sets of pop up greeting cards. Not sure what his purpose was with them, if it was a valid interest of his own, or something used to keep a child occupied for a few minutes. I apologize in advance if someone has already discussed this on a different thread, but there's no way I can catch up on everything that has been discussed about him so far.

[Liz]

Hi SimonSays and Grisall!

Welcome aboard!

Verrry interrrrestink about "Happy Joe's Ice Cream Parlor", grisall. And about those 'pop-up' greeting cards, Simon. Hmmmm....????

Now, take your shoes off and stay a spell. ;)

[Tom'sGirl]

I'm new too, but like the previous poster, I checked on ebay a few days ago to see if I could find one of his known online user names, and came across the same one you did. Also, I read his entire blog, skimming parts of it, but I found an entry where he says that he invited his neighbor (female) over one day to look at his new collection of greeting cards. Well, I did some research that day that I found his ebay account, and one of the sellers he bought from specializes in selling sets of pop up greeting cards. Not sure what his purpose was with them, if it was a valid interest of his own, or something used to keep a child occupied for a few minutes. I apologize in advance if someone has already discussed this on a different thread, but there's no way I can catch up on everything that has been discussed about him so far.Welcome SimonSays....no, there is no way you can read it all, at least not unless you spend a couple of days reading with LOTS'n'LOTS of coffee;)

[SimonSays]

Well I better start brewing! :)


Thank you both for the welcome!

[mysteriew]

SimonSays, grisall Welcome to the group.
And very good sleuthing! I had never even thought of checking ebay to see what activity he may have there! Very good ideas!

[openminded1]

I would love to know an IQ number on this guy. That would tell me a whole lot. If anyone happens to see one, please PM it to me so I don't miss it.

[mysteriew]

I would love to know an IQ number on this guy. That would tell me a whole lot. If anyone happens to see one, please PM it to me so I don't miss it.

I want to know too!

I am wondering why we aren't hearing more from the college in N.D. They enrolled a Level 3 sex offender (and I have to believe they would have known) and he would have been associating with a group of impressionable kids. Granted he had never targeted that age kid before- but as far as we know, he never targeted a family before either. Looks like there would be a lot of mad parents around Fargo. I know I would be angry. Were the kids advised of the danger he represented? Were the parents?

[Nchadwickaz]

So despite all these times he broke the law, he only had that conviction at age 16 on his felony sheet! What nonsense. But I have to say, this is typical of a criminal's rap sheet. Many, many arrests and a few convictions. That is why when I hear "innocent until proven guilty," I say it is just crapola. Most of the time with criminals it is more like "guilty more times than we can count and we finally got him cold" and that is why they get indicted. Please don't bother about the wrongfully accused. They are one in a million.
:clap: :clap:

You are so right on, part of the reason has to do with the obvious "plea agreements". This is bullcrap -- so the actual convictions are not the actually crimes or arrest that were made -- these are lesser charges, with lessor sentences to ensure that these cases never get tried in front of a jury. So the convictions, if they even are on the registry -- are the ONLY thing that people see -- not the arrests, not the charges -- these are "watered down" charges -- SHAME ON THE STATES...... ALL OF THE STATES -- If you think this only happens in WA or ND -- YOU ARE Naive and living in a bubble. DO THE RESEARCH and you will be amazed at how many cases are plead out (btw this counts as a win for the state/prosecution for their media spins).

Think about what a false sense of security the registry is in this sense. SCARY!

[SimonSays]

when going back looking for other information on his blog, the information he posted about those greeting cards happened to be on the same page:

http://fifthnail.blogspot.com/2004_03_21_fifthnail_archive.html

My neighbor invited me out for dinner, and we had an enjoyable meal, and when we got home I invited her to my place for a quick drink. I was showing her my new stock of greeting cards when I received a news alert on my cell phone. There had been an abduction attempt within blocks of where I live and the police where looking for a suspect. My neighbor knows about my status as a level three sex offender, and also knows well my fear of someday being arrested for something I didn't do. So, we set up my laptop on the dinning room table so we could go to the news web site and get more details on the breaking story.


I'm new too, but like the previous poster, I checked on ebay a few days ago to see if I could find one of his known online user names, and came across the same one you did. Also, I read his entire blog, skimming parts of it, but I found an entry where he says that he invited his neighbor (female) over one day to look at his new collection of greeting cards. Well, I did some research that day that I found his ebay account, and one of the sellers he bought from specializes in selling sets of pop up greeting cards. Not sure what his purpose was with them, if it was a valid interest of his own, or something used to keep a child occupied for a few minutes. I apologize in advance if someone has already discussed this on a different thread, but there's no way I can catch up on everything that has been discussed about him so far.

[Cowgirl]

I want to know too!

I am wondering why we aren't hearing more from the college in N.D. They enrolled a Level 3 sex offender (and I have to believe they would have known) and he would have been associating with a group of impressionable kids. Granted he had never targeted that age kid before- but as far as we know, he never targeted a family before either. Looks like there would be a lot of mad parents around Fargo. I know I would be angry. Were the kids advised of the danger he represented? Were the parents?This article that you posted this morning says he wrote to NDSU a year before he applied there to make sure it was not a problem and the campus police chief mentions knowing him and being convinced by him of his good intent.

http://wcco.com/topstories/local_story_199164300.html

The community meeting they had was public, so the parents had an opportunity to express themselves there too.

I cannot help you with his IQ although it may be in the papers released by the State of Washington yesterday. Though heavily redacted they may have that data in there. Those should be available soon online someplace.