Dylan has been Identified - Merged-

[marrigotti]

Fox News.

[chicoliving]

Thanks marrigotti, I just heard it too.....

[Floh]

So sad. :(

[Casshew]

It is sad news, but at least the waiting and wondering is over... it makes it even more of a miracle that Shasta is alive today.

[Berksleuth]

I doubt anyone is really suprised, but the confirmation is yet another jolt of the sick reality of this horrific story.

[bakerprune64]

I'm new here! Glad that they finally know for sure. It's odd that his preference has been for little boys , but he spared Shasta (thank goodness.)

[North Idaho native]

It is sad news, but at least the waiting and wondering is over... it makes it even more of a miracle that Shasta is alive today.


Really is a miracle she's alive. It really makes me wonder why. This is horrible.......but I wonder if she "let him do his thing" to her without a fight, and perhaps Dylan resisted..................?

[mysteriew]

I'm new here! Glad that they finally know for sure. It's odd that his preference has been for little boys , but he spared Shasta (thank goodness.)

Welcome to the group! Such a sad time to meet you, but happy to see you anyway.

I think we all "knew" it was little Dylan but were hoping that it was not.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/sad/angel.bmp For little Dylan

[bakerprune64]

[/b]


Really is a miracle she's alive. It really makes me wonder why. This is horrible.......but I wonder if she "let him do his thing" to her without a fight, and perhaps Dylan resisted..................?
Or..he was panning on selling her to one of his pervert buddies.

[indigomood]

Remains identified as those of kidnapped boy

11:45 AM PDT on Sunday, July 10, 2005

According to the F.B.I. Lab in Quantico, Virginia, the remains have been positively identified as Dillon Groene.

http://www.nwcn.com/topstories/stories/NW_071005IDBremainsidSW.9208fa33.html

[Incognito]

http://www.nwcn.com/topstories/stories/NW_071005IDBremainsidSW.9208fa33.html

[North Idaho native]

Or..he was panning on selling her to one of his pervert buddies.
Interesting thought...........perhaps Big Al, that Bob spoke about in the other thread? My impressions of her is that she's a really quiet, shy girl....One of my close friends was her teacher at the Elementary School she attended. She described her as being very shy and quiet. My best friend's dad owns that gas station where whe and JED were caught on video. Supposedly she walked up and down the aisles with her arms crossed staring into everyone's faces.................

[indigomood]

Remains identified as those of kidnapped boy

Investigators in Idaho confirmed Sunday that remains found in Montana are those of 9-year-old Dylan Groene, who was kidnapped with his sister from his rural Coeur d'Alene home after a brutal triple murder.

http://www.king5.com/localnews/stories/NW_071005IDBremainsidSW.9208fa33.html

[dani]

CNN.com has breaking news that the remains are, in fact Dylan's. The details will be released soon.

This is so sad. That poor little guy. I know we were expecting this, but I still held out hope that it was NOT Dylan.

dani

[Casshew]

No word on the condition of the remains or cause of death.

RIP Dylan :(

[jc9876]

Well, we did expect it and some closure has been brought to the family, I hope. My prayers go out to them.

Now everyone has to turn the sadness into resolve that the next JED does not pass them by. It's made me less complacent in my suburban paradise.

Rest in Peace, Dylan.

[kpass]

He is now with his mother & brother up in heaven. God bless them all.

[kk's mom]

God bless Dylan and his family in heaven. He is no longer in harms way or frightened.

This is so sad.

[rollerbladr123]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050710/ap_on_re_us/idaho_missing_childrenCOEUR D'ALENE, Idaho - Human remains found at a remote campsite in Montana last week have been identified as those of 9-year-old Dylan Groene, the Idaho boy who was kidnapped seven weeks ago, authorities said Sunday

More at link...

[mysteriew]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050710/ap_on_re_us/idaho_missing_childrenCOEUR D'ALENE, Idaho - Human remains found at a remote campsite in Montana last week have been identified as those of 9-year-old Dylan Groene, the Idaho boy who was kidnapped seven weeks ago, authorities said Sunday

More at link...

From the article:

Watson said Friday that the family appeared to have been chosen at random but that the attack was carefully planned and executed, possibly with the motive of abducting the young children for sex.

[kuriouskate]

Hi all.

I'm not really that new to WS. I was more active during the whole Laci ordeal under a different name. I remember the site crashed a couple of times and then I never posted again and then when I tried I was told I needed to reapply since I wasn't active. Anyway here I am back again and have really followed this case. First of all I am a social worker here in Montana. I am close to being licensed as an MSW. I work with families in an agency where I do home visits and teach parenting, good prenatal care and that sort of thing. I also visit moms in the jail and our only state women's prison and deal with much meth addiction. I also do per diem work for Hospice. My interest is/has always been children and health in families but that's not really why this case is so compelling to me. It's compelling because I have 2 children ages 17 and 9. My 9 year old is named Dylan and looks almost identical to Dylan Groene. I am just sick about what happened to that family. Not just sick but haven't slept for 3 nights thinking about them...thinking about poor Dylan and looking at my Dylan while he's sleeping and imagining such horror and pain upon that sweet face and little boy body. I have heard about children who are suffering and near death who lived to talk about it and their recollections of angels taking them during the pain. That is my prayer and my hope for little Dylan Groene. I pray when it was beyond anything tolerable that angels swept him away. That is my one solace. I also pray for Shasta..for all the demons that come to her via dreams and memories and just processing all the darkness and pain, that while she wrestles with it all and the magnitude of the horror, that her demons will render themselves into blessings...somehow and someway. This whole thing is just beyond my ability to get my arms around it. I am a believer. I don't know why, trust me. I don't know why. But I am. And I don't understand why these horrible things happen to human beings especially little ones that depend on big humans...often big human strangers even to protect them. I figure things are allowed for reasons beyond my human comprehension. I have talked to Dylan Groene in my spirit to his spirit. I suppose it just gives me some solace to think perhaps I'm giving him some. I tell him that what happened was horrendous and that if a number of us were there or knew we would have protected him as best we could from that big monster and fought for him and gone to battle for him. My sense is that he knows. I also have this sense that Dylan had a strong sense of who he was despite all the horror and it was in defending and preserving that invulnerable part of him, that he was killed and perhaps at that time, death was really a blessing and the only choice he could make(maybe by not submitting to the monster's wishes or by fighting him knowing full well he could be killed) to preserve himself if that makes any sense. I also want you all to know and I know this is totally violent and wrong but it's good I live in Montana. Because if I lived anywhere near that monster I would like to walk up to him and shoot him between the eyes. So much for my non violent and peaceful approach to violence uh? By the way I lived in St. Regis for a short time and climbed Lolo Peak many a time. I think I know exactly where that little isolated campsite is. And if I ever get back I'm gonna go over there and somehow reclaim the light that once shown over it...through prayer or lighting sage or something....somehow, I know....no matter what...darkness just doesn't get the last word. It just doesn't. Even in death, light shines..somehow and somewhere...even if it's hidden to us or we don't know for a long time. We see your light Dylan and we are so glad you are finally safe. God bless you always.

[Floh]

I'm not exactly a believer, but the fact Shasta Groene (Gröne) is alive makes me wonder.

if you don't know what i'm talking about, make no never mind. i just heard her big brother's remains were identified.

bless her darling heart and let nothing ever come near to harming her again.

she has a soulful and wonderful dad to be there for her.

and bless all those in Denny's who weren't going to allow the molester to leave with her.

there are heros in the most ordinary circumstances and i honestly know these folks would have sacrificed their lives to save this tiny girl when they knew who she was and what was happening.

my thoughts on going to bed

i dearly hope Shasta's thoughts are happier and empty of the past months she spent with the monster.

[mysteriew]

If you go back there, light a candle and let it burn a little while (only while attended of course)
The scariest part about this is that they were all doing what they should be doing. They were home in their beds (or getting ready for bed). They were in their safe place. And every time we hear of little children being attacked by strangers, in their own home- well it is scary, because if it happened to them, then it could happen to anyone. And that is extremely scary.
Killing a whole family in order to get at the children is taking a bad problem (sexual predator) to a whole new, much worse level.

[Liz]

Captain Wolfinger just spoke at the Press Conference which lasted about a minute and this is the statement he read:


Montana Remains Identified

Unified Command
Media Release
July 10, 2005

Unified Command has learned the results of the DNA testing that was done on the human remains found in Montana last week.

According to the F.B.I. Lab in Quantico, Virginia, the remains have been positively identified as Dylan Groene.

Investigators continue to follow-up on other leads.
Out of respect for the Groene family and to maintain the integrity of the investigation and prosecution of this matter, there will be no further comment regarding these results.

Rocky Watson, Sheriff, Kootenai County
Wayne Longo, Captain, Idaho State Police
Tim J. Fuhrman, Special Agent in Charge, F.B.I.

======================================

I just happened to have gone to the KC Sheriff's website just before the press conference started at 2:30 PDT and found the statement.

Dear Dylan, may you Rest in Peace, little one. :(

[Tom'sGirl]

Captain Wolfinger just spoke at the Press Conference which lasted about a minute and this is the statement he read:


Montana Remains Identified

Unified Command
Media Release
July 10, 2005

Unified Command has learned the results of the DNA testing that was done on the human remains found in Montana last week.

According to the F.B.I. Lab in Quantico, Virginia, the remains have been positively identified as Dylan Groene.

Investigators continue to follow-up on other leads.
Out of respect for the Groene family and to maintain the integrity of the investigation and prosecution of this matter, there will be no further comment regarding these results.

Rocky Watson, Sheriff, Kootenai County
Wayne Longo, Captain, Idaho State Police
Tim J. Fuhrman, Special Agent in Charge, F.B.I.

======================================

I just happened to have gone to the KC Sheriff's website just before the press conference started at 2:30 PDT and found the statement.

Dear Dylan, may you Rest in Peace, little one. :(
Thanks for the post Liz..........

[Floh]

My thoughts are with Steve and his family.

[Liz]

It's not the news I'd hoped to post, Tom'sGirl. But, you're welcome. What a sad, sad day this must be for Steve and the family.

And then Dylan's 10th birthday is next Saturday.

[mysteriew]

Now they have to tell Shasta they have found him. She knew already what had happened, but now they have to tell her so they can prepare for the funeral. It is going to bring that memory right back to the front again.

[kuriouskate]

It won't be an easy road for Shasta anyway we look at it. It truly is a wonder she survived all of this. I will be praying for supernatural grounding to see her through.

[Floh]

It's not the news I'd hoped to post, Tom'sGirl. But, you're welcome. What a sad, sad day this must be for Steve and the family.

They knew because Shasta knew. :(

hard to have it confirmed by quantico, but they were readied, poor people.

[NK57]

What a sad ending to this part of the story. And what a miracle that little Shasta was found alive. She will need our prayers for a long time to come.

Nancy

[dbmthur]

Not at all the news I was hoping for but I think we all knew that it was going to turn out to be him. I will continue to be praying for that family, especially Shasta...she most certainly will have a long road ahead of her but for some reason she was spared. The whole thing makes me sad...sad that somewhere along the way this once "little boy" had something so horrific done to him that turned him into the "monster" he is today to be able to hurt so many people in the manner(s) that he did...I just don't understand how anyone could hurt our precious children. They are so innocent...you have to be a monster to do what he did!I pray that through all of this Shasta will be able to find some sort of peace and that she will one day be able to be a truely happy person...

[kuriouskate]

I think what really scares me is that I see so many people in my profession who have had horrific things done to them and they end up either addicts or victims of perpetrators in relationships or their own children end up being removed. The pain of childhood pain is so long lived! And research has shown that it isn't so much horrendous acts done upon children themselves that are so harming but the inability to talk about them or work out the lies brought about ("you are a terrible person", "you weren't good enough") etc. etc. My hope is that Shasta can talk and work out these horrible memories somehow in a healthy safe way so she can neutralize them so they don't have that much power to ruin her life. Please forgive me for posting so much. I'm processing this horror myself. You know that's the thing these damaging acts have so much ripple on the psyche of society. God have mercy on us all.

[OneMADmomma]

I was so hoping for a different outcome for this little boy:( .
God be with his family & bless his little soul.

[concernedperson]

Bless his sweet little heart...that is all I can say! Just rips me.

[surf_moon_stars]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8533188/

________________________________________


Updated: 6:07 p.m. ET July 10, 2005

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho - The human remains found at a remote campsite in Montana last week were positively identified as 9-year-old Dylan Groene, the Kootenai County Sheriff's Office said Sunday.

“According to the FBI lab in Quantico, Va., the remains have been positively identified as Dylan Groene,” said Kootenai County Sheriff's Capt. Ben Wolfinger. “Investigators continue to follow other leads.”

No other details were provided in a terse news conference that lasted less than one minute.

The identification ends any hope that the child might have been found alive, as his 8-year-old sister Shasta was a week ago.

The two children were missing from the home where their mother, brother and mother's boyfriend were bound and bludgeoned to death. The bodies were found May 16 in their rural home near Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

Authorities believe they were abducted by registered sex offender Joseph Edward Duncan III and spent part of the time at the remote camp site in the Lolo National Forest where the remains were found.

Shasta was rescued early July 2 after employees and customers spotted her with Duncan at a Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, restaurant a few miles from her mother's home and called police.

Information she provided, along with other evidence, led authorities to the campsite.

Other charges possible
So far, Duncan has only been charged with kidnapping Shasta and Dylan.

But authorities have said they believe he also killed their mother, Brenda Kay Groene, 40; their brother, Slade Groene, 13; and the mother's boyfriend, Mark Edward McKenzie, 37.

Watson said Friday that the family appeared to have been chosen at random but that the attack was carefully planned and executed, possibly with the motive of abducting the young children for sex.

_________________________________________


I am heartbroken, and this man is in big big big big big big trouble. :mad: :mad: :mad:
__________________________________________________ ______________

My heart goes out to Shasta, and both sides of her family and the entire who
has suffered through this.

God Bless you Dylan.... :angel:

Say a prayer for this sweet boy, and for Shasta and family


_______________________________________________

[Tom'sGirl]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8533188/

________________________________________


Updated: 6:07 p.m. ET July 10, 2005

COEUR D’ALENE, Idaho - The human remains found at a remote campsite in Montana last week were positively identified as 9-year-old Dylan Groene, the Kootenai County Sheriff's Office said Sunday.

“According to the FBI lab in Quantico, Va., the remains have been positively identified as Dylan Groene,” said Kootenai County Sheriff's Capt. Ben Wolfinger. “Investigators continue to follow other leads.”

No other details were provided in a terse news conference that lasted less than one minute.

The identification ends any hope that the child might have been found alive, as his 8-year-old sister Shasta was a week ago.

The two children were missing from the home where their mother, brother and mother's boyfriend were bound and bludgeoned to death. The bodies were found May 16 in their rural home near Coeur d'Alene, Idaho.

Authorities believe they were abducted by registered sex offender Joseph Edward Duncan III and spent part of the time at the remote camp site in the Lolo National Forest where the remains were found.

Shasta was rescued early July 2 after employees and customers spotted her with Duncan at a Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, restaurant a few miles from her mother's home and called police.

Information she provided, along with other evidence, led authorities to the campsite.

Other charges possible
So far, Duncan has only been charged with kidnapping Shasta and Dylan.

But authorities have said they believe he also killed their mother, Brenda Kay Groene, 40; their brother, Slade Groene, 13; and the mother's boyfriend, Mark Edward McKenzie, 37.

Watson said Friday that the family appeared to have been chosen at random but that the attack was carefully planned and executed, possibly with the motive of abducting the young children for sex.

_________________________________________


I am heartbroken, and this man is in big big big big big big trouble. :mad: :mad: :mad:
__________________________________________________ ______________

My heart goes out to Shasta, and both sides of her family and the entire who
has suffered through this.

God Bless you Dylan.... :angel:

Say a prayer for this sweet boy, and for Shasta and family


_______________________________________________
Surf, welcome!

Could/would you move this post to Dylan has been Identified - Merged- so we can all reply to the same subject.

TIA

[Liz]

Hi surf-moon-stars, and welcome aboard. :)

[JDB]

DAmn I was hoping against hope But my head is saying know with this crazy world we are all living in he will miss it.And now he is untied with his mom and his brother. Romping in the clouds with Conner Samatha *SP* and the others we have discused here.
RIP Dylan

[Liz]

I think what really scares me is that I see so many people in my profession who have had horrific things done to them and they end up either addicts or victims of perpetrators in relationships or their own children end up being removed. The pain of childhood pain is so long lived! And research has shown that it isn't so much horrendous acts done upon children themselves that are so harming but the inability to talk about them or work out the lies brought about ("you are a terrible person", "you weren't good enough") etc. etc. My hope is that Shasta can talk and work out these horrible memories somehow in a healthy safe way so she can neutralize them so they don't have that much power to ruin her life. Please forgive me for posting so much. I'm processing this horror myself. You know that's the thing these damaging acts have so much ripple on the psyche of society. God have mercy on us all.


Kuriouskate, it's really not necessary to apologize for posting (so much?). Many of us are having a hard time processing this heinous crime. But, it helps to post. That's what websleuths is here for, if I'm not mistaken.

I look forward to reading more of what you have to say. Feel free to post your heart out! :)

[bakerprune64]

There is already some good coming out of this tragedy. My local LE made a sexual predator sweep and arrested 46 of the perverts who had not complied the the terms of their release,and issued warrants on many others! My hat is off to them for being so dilligent, and it was prompted by these any many other recent tragedies. :behindbar Hope they and many others will never see the light of day!

[Cowgirl]

There is already some good coming out of this tragedy. My local LE made a sexual predator sweep and arrested 46 of the perverts who had not complied the the terms of their release,and issued warrants on many others! My hat is off to them for being so dilligent, and it was prompted by these any many other recent tragedies. :behindbar Hope they and many others will never see the light of day!Wow, that really is good news. I would think those who do not comply with their court ordered parole or registration rules would be the ones most likely to reoffend. Glad to hear it and I hope it becomes a trend.

[Liz]

There is already some good coming out of this tragedy. My local LE made a sexual predator sweep and arrested 46 of the perverts who had not complied the the terms of their release,and issued warrants on many others! My hat is off to them for being so dilligent, and it was prompted by these any many other recent tragedies. :behindbar Hope they and many others will never see the light of day!



That IS good news! Maybe it will ignite a fire in some of us to contact our local LE and get that same ball rolling! Thanks for the post bakerprune, and welcome to websleuths! :)

[Tom'sGirl]

There is already some good coming out of this tragedy. My local LE made a sexual predator sweep and arrested 46 of the perverts who had not complied the the terms of their release,and issued warrants on many others! My hat is off to them for being so dilligent, and it was prompted by these any many other recent tragedies. :behindbar Hope they and many others will never see the light of day!
Same in my area, but it was prior to this case.........takes people going to their local P.D. like I did with up-dated info. on some of these creeps!

[bakerprune64]

Thanks and I hope so too. Like Steve Groene said we have to get our elected officials to pass stronger legislation. I say microchip them all and track them. I think that nothing is too extreme when it comes to the safety of my children (and everybody else's for that matter.)

[bakerprune64]

Tom'sgirl, Good for you. Like they say, i"t takes a village to raise a child..." imo it also takes a village to keep them safe! The sheriff in our town is committed to making our community safer for our kids.

[Tom'sGirl]

Tom'sgirl, Good for you. Like they say, i"t takes a village to raise a child..." imo it also takes a village to keep them safe! The sheriff in our town is committed to making our community safer for our kids.Hi baker, and welcome :)

I've reviewed the Megan's Law site since it went into effect last December and spotted several faces on there that I knew something of.

I contacted the State Attorney General's office with the info. and did what they instructed me to do via email (taking info. to local P.D.) I do so and the data base was still not corrected. In any event I mailed again to the SAG's office and stated who I spoke with, and on what date at the P.D.

They must have contacted my local P.D. and the change was made! I was told the data bases are handled by EACH CITY.

I also get up-dates on a regular basis from: http://www.scanusa.com. It's really great, I could put in several ZIP codes and get info. on all of them.

[Liz]

I'd like to think that compared to many states, Idaho is a state where kids can be pretty safe from harm. Then we have to get picked out of all fifty for some trolling pervert who decides to drop in and wipe out an entire family!


Ankle bracelets, schmankel bracelets .... put the dang bracelet around their necks and cinch it up until they no longer draw breath!

One offense upon a child, proven beyond a shadow of a doubt should equal "immediate death sentence", imo.

[Beyond Belief]

This coward needs to be punished alot more harshly than current methods. Feeding him to sharks or alligators would be acceptable to me.

[Liz]

Tom'sGirl ... good on you! Rock on, girl! :)

[ewwwinteresting]

I'd like to think that compared to many states, Idaho is a state where kids can be pretty safe from harm. Then we have to get picked out of all fifty for some trolling pervert who decides to drop in and wipe out an entire family!


Ankle bracelets, schmankel bracelets .... put the dang bracelet around their necks and cinch it up until they no longer draw breath!

One offense upon a child, proven beyond a shadow of a doubt should equal "immediate death sentence", imo.
Maybe this is Dylan's law. Those that choose to sexually offend our children get life imprisonment or death. They only get to do it once!

[surf_moon_stars]

Hi Tom and Liz,

Surf, welcome!

Could/would you move this post to Dylan has been Identified - Merged- so we can all reply to the same subject.TIA
Hi surf-moon-stars, and welcome aboard. :)
Thank you Tom'sgirl and Liz for the welcome. :)

My apologies Tom and Yes, I will merge this, as I should be able to figure it out.



SO nice to be here, and so glad to get to know you. :D

[Usher737]

God bless Dylan and his family ! No child should ever have to suffer like he did. I hope and pray that he is at peace now.


I wonder what made that sick SOB take his life and possibly save Shasta's. I was hoping they would both be found alive.
I hope she doesn't have any guilt; no one could control that monster's actions. I also pray she can fully recover and enjoy life again!

Thanks so much to those wonderful people at Denny's !!

[nanandjim]

The only thing that I can pray is that children are more resilient than adults. This little girl needs extensive counseling, a very stable family and community support if she ever has a chance of recovering.

I fear that I would be traumatized for life if this ever happened to me.

[Cowgirl]

Perhaps the fact that Shasta said that her brother was "with the angels" tells us that she didn't see the depravity that befell him and that maybe the monster knew the only way he could keep her alive to further his evil plans was to prevent her from actually seeing whatever sick things he did to Dylan.

Without seeing any of his crimes, she will still need extensive counseling to deal with this, and for many years to come. She has the resilience of youth on her side, but visuals are hard things to overcome. Had she seen the hammer murders or whatever happened to Dylan I think she would have to be a zombie. "With the angels" is the kind of remark told to a child when the deceased is absent to explain a death they didn't see. I certainly hope that is the case for Shasta and that she isn't burying things she just cannot deal with.

I hope that a lot of money was sent to her bank accounts instead of Teddy bears. All those bears were donated to other children, so the well-meaning folks who do that are mostly making themselves feel better, not the child.

[Linda7NJ]

Perhaps the fact that Shasta said that her brother was "with the angels" tells us that she didn't see the depravity that befell him and that maybe the monster knew the only way he could keep her alive to further his evil plans was to prevent her from actually seeing whatever sick things he did to Dylan.

Without seeing any of his crimes, she will still need extensive counseling to deal with this, and for many years to come. She has the resilience of youth on her side, but visuals are hard things to overcome. Had she seen the hammer murders or whatever happened to Dylan I think she would have to be a zombie. "With the angels" is the kind of remark told to a child when the deceased is absent to explain a death they didn't see. I certainly hope that is the case for Shasta and that she isn't burying things she just cannot deal with.

I hope that a lot of money was sent to her bank accounts instead of Teddy bears. All those bears were donated to other children, so the well-meaning folks who do that are mostly making themselves feel better, not the child.
IMO What that dad needs is enough cold hard cash to stay home with her for the next few years to make her feel safe & secure. I would also suggest a big protective dog to share her bed and a elaborate alarm system she can operate.

[Shazzie]

They knew because Shasta knew. :(

hard to have it confirmed by quantico, but they were readied, poor people.I heard Steve on TV last night, talking to Geraldo via telephone. (I don't usually watch Geraldo, don't even know when he's regularly on, but I was channel surfing, looking for news and when I realized Geraldo was talking about the Groenes, I watched him for a while.) It was obvious that the announcement was no surprise to Steve. He said that he had been well-prepared by LE prior to it being announced by the public. He was emotional, as you would expect, but obviously not in a state of total shock.

I was always sure this was Dylan. LE always sounded like they really thought this was him and just didn't want to make a statement until after the DNA testing made things absolutely certain. I get the impression Shasta must have told them something that made them pretty certain he was no longer alive.That being the case, I saw no reason NOT to assume it was him.

My chief hope was always that the identification would come as switfly as possible, for the sake of the Groenes and/or any other grieving famil(ies) that might have wondered if the remains were those of their own missing child. I'm glad that the suspense is now over for everyone concerned.

[Cowgirl]

IMO What that dad needs is enough cold hard cash to stay home with her for the next few years to make her feel safe & secure. I would also suggest a big protective dog to share her bed and a elaborate alarm system she can operate.And a loaded shotgun beside her bed...

If this case proves anything to us, it proves no one is safe. Not those living in rural America, not those with or without drugs around, not those who go to church or don't. No one is immune to the depravity of people like Duncan or Rader. When I think about my youth, as a college kid I used to hitchhike around Boston. How did I survive? Just the luck of the draw, as I see it now. I find my own actions appalling at my age now and maybe it was a different era, but it was not all that different. The Boston Strangler had already done his thing and he was not the only whack job in the area!

Now, I seldom venture out alone after dark. I set my house alarm when I am home, not just when I go out as I used to. I check the peephole and look out the window to see who knocks on my door and I used to just open it. But if someone wants to get me, they would only need to jump the fence and catch me in the pool. So who am I kidding? Even the .357 I have would only help if someone were trying to break my door down and I had time to get it! It gives me a feeling of being safer but really, there is no such thing as "safe."

[Linda7NJ]

I agree with you 1ooo% ;)

But a child needs to "feel" safe & secure to develop. You & I realize it's simply an illusion.

IMO she will need a ton of therapy to make it through the trial.

[joanofarc]

This coward needs to be punished alot more harshly than current methods. Feeding him to sharks or alligators would be acceptable to me.The only problem with this is he would be dead too quick...:mad: .

I want this guy to suffer immeasurably, perhaps by the same mode of torture that he put Shasta & Dylan through...

Put a bag over his head...pull the draw string tight....then, when he is just about dead release it and let him sputter and scream about his sexual offender's "rights"....!!!! Poor kids, their rights were violated over and over again by this man but he conveniently forgets that part....what a scum this guy is....grrrrrr:banghead:

Prayers for this family and especially for Shasta....she is going to need them for the rest of her life...I am afraid....

[Cowgirl]

I agree with you 1ooo% ;)

But a child needs to "feel" safe & secure to develop. You & I realize it's simply an illusion.

IMO she will need a ton of therapy to make it through the trial.I am hoping she will be able to tell her story to a therapist and that they can videotape it for the trial. That is not always legally possible, but in this case, what with him being apprehended in her company, with her directing them to where they camped and where Dylan was seen alive and his remains found there, and with her telling her story of her abduction on videotape, there is not much a defense attorney would want to ask her in open court. If he even asked her a single question the jury would hate him. I think the defense might just stipulate to her testimony and spare her any further trauma.

The defense is going to be just looking for a way to keep him off death row because there is too much there. Just what he did to Shasta is enough to get him the DP. But the only thing the defense could offer would be to plead guilty to the charges to avoid the DP and I don't think the state will accept that. I think the state wants the DP here. So the only way the defense can hope to avoid the DP would be to whine at trial about his demons and how he never had a childhood* or some other excuse, not go after the facts of the case.

*hey, it worked for Wacko, didn't it? Heh.

[Liz]

The only problem with this is he would be dead too quick...:mad: .

I want this guy to suffer immeasurably, perhaps by the same mode of torture that he put Shasta & Dylan through...

Put a bag over his head...pull the draw string tight....then, when he is just about dead release it and let him sputter and scream about his sexual offender's "rights"....!!!! Poor kids, their rights were violated over and over again by this man but he conveniently forgets that part....what a scum this guy is....grrrrrr:banghead:

Prayers for this family and especially for Shasta....she is going to need them for the rest of her life...I am afraid....


I like your thinking, Joan! Maybe when he gets just after he stops breathing they can bring him back and tell him he gets to live at least a few hours longer. Then repeat the process over and over, for about seven weeks.

[joanofarc]

I like your thinking, Joan! Maybe when he gets just after he stops breathing they can bring him back and tell him he gets to live at least a few hours longer. Then repeat the process over and over, for about seven weeks.
Liz.....You, my sist'a!!! :) .....

Never believed I would ever want to inflict pain on another human being but this guy's got my FULL attention.....

[Liz]

Liz.....You, my sist'a!!! :) .....

Never believed I would ever want to inflict pain on another human being but this guy's got my FULL attention.....


Amen, sista! I can't think of a case where a child survived something more horrific. If anyone knows of one ... please, I don't want to know.

And that POS Couey too!

[Shazzie]

I am hoping she will be able to tell her story to a therapist and that they can videotape it for the trial. That is not always legally possible, but in this case, what with him being apprehended in her company, with her directing them to where they camped and where Dylan was seen alive and his remains found there, and with her telling her story of her abduction on videotape, there is not much a defense attorney would want to ask her in open court. If he even asked her a single question the jury would hate him. I think the defense might just stipulate to her testimony and spare her any further trauma.

The defense is going to be just looking for a way to keep him off death row because there is too much there. Just what he did to Shasta is enough to get him the DP. But the only thing the defense could offer would be to plead guilty to the charges to avoid the DP and I don't think the state will accept that. I think the state wants the DP here. So the only way the defense can hope to avoid the DP would be to whine at trial about his demons and how he never had a childhood* or some other excuse, not go after the facts of the case.

*hey, it worked for Wacko, didn't it? Heh.It sure did work for Wacko. Except the Wacko trial involved the key witnesses testifying against him being abused by the defense on the witness stand. That BETTER not happen in this case!!!!! :furious:

Getting back to the Groene case, I agree that the defense's main job here will be trying to fend off the DP. I'd rate the chances of success somewhere around those of an ice cube surviving in he!!. JED is going to be represented by some poorly paid, overworked public defender, not a high-powered "celebrity" lawyer. This creep is going DOWNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!

[Cowgirl]

It sure did work for Wacko. Except the Wacko trial involved the key witnesses testifying against him being abused by the defense on the witness stand. That BETTER not happen in this case!!!!! :furious:

Getting back to the Groene case, I agree that the defense's main job here will be trying to fend off the DP. I'd rate the chances of success somewhere around those of an ice cube surviving in he!!. JED is going to be represented by some poorly paid, overworked public defender, not a high-powered "celebrity" lawyer. This creep is going DOWNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!What? You mean Mesereau won't take on this case as one of his Death Penalty pro bono cases? How about one of the ACLU bleeding hearts like Jonna Spilbor? She might need some hate mail herself, huh? She isn't on Nancy Grace's show very often. ;)

I agree though. Unless one of these lawyers thinks attracting buckshot to their own driveways is a good idea, I don't think they will want to defend this pig. Even the Bible thumpers are screaming for the death penalty or torture!

[mysteriew]

I hope they don't play any "video-tapes" of Shasta's treatment with her therapist. Yes, it would be interesting to see and hear the story in Shasta's own words. But this is a little girl. One who is going to need to feel trust in her therapist for years to come. How is she going to feel if she finds out that her therapist sessions were played for the court? Her private conversations with someone she is supposed to trust. How is she going to feel knowing that she doesn't know who has heard her telling the details of a horrible trauma that has happened to her during a session that is supposed to be private-between herself and a therapist. Everyone she meets from then on, she will wonder- did they hear that? And why? They have plenty of evidence on Duncan. They have the murder scene, they have Dylan's remains, they have the physical evidence from Shasta, they have Shasta's story as told to LE, They have the camps and 2 vehicles. And unfortunately, if Duncan doesn't plead- Shasta will probably have to testify in some form. So why violate her trust in her therapist? To satisfy the curiosity of someone who wants to know every detail of what happened to her? To add salacious detail to the case? Why cause her even more embarrassment and undermine her trust in someone who is supposed to helping her?
I hope that if Shasta is going to have to testify, that they are able to arrange a video-taping separate from her therapy sessions. Where she can give her testimony outside of the court- yet still protecting her privacy, providing her with some feeling of safety, and support.

[Liz]

Good, thought-provoking post, mysteriew. It almost makes me numb just to read it. I can't fathom how she'll ever recover, especially if she witnessed her brother being murdered. Supposedly she told investigators where to look. How sad is that?

[Cowgirl]

I hope they don't play any "video-tapes" of Shasta's treatment with her therapist. Yes, it would be interesting to see and hear the story in Shasta's own words. But this is a little girl. One who is going to need to feel trust in her therapist for years to come. How is she going to feel if she finds out that her therapist sessions were played for the court? Her private conversations with someone she is supposed to trust. How is she going to feel knowing that she doesn't know who has heard her telling the details of a horrible trauma that has happened to her during a session that is supposed to be private-between herself and a therapist. Everyone she meets from then on, she will wonder- did they hear that? And why? They have plenty of evidence on Duncan. They have the murder scene, they have Dylan's remains, they have the physical evidence from Shasta, they have Shasta's story as told to LE, They have the camps and 2 vehicles. And unfortunately, if Duncan doesn't plead- Shasta will probably have to testify in some form. So why violate her trust in her therapist? To satisfy the curiosity of someone who wants to know every detail of what happened to her? To add salacious detail to the case? Why cause her even more embarrassment and undermine her trust in someone who is supposed to helping her?
I hope that if Shasta is going to have to testify, that they are able to arrange a video-taping separate from her therapy sessions. Where she can give her testimony outside of the court- yet still protecting her privacy, providing her with some feeling of safety, and support.Oh, please, I certainly didn't mean that her therapy sessions should be used! I meant that if she has to testify at all, perhaps they could let her therapist do the questioning in lieu of some strange attorney and that the jury could hear it, not the public. Her therapy sessions are not the same thing at all, even if the same basic facts were to be revealed. I hope no one would be that cruel! I am sorry that my post would suggest such an idea. I certainly never meant to.

Many states allow children to testify on videotape or closed circuit TV and would it not be easier for her to be asked the questions by a therapist? I would think so. Hopefully, she won't have to testify at all, but if she does, this would be better than some strange attorney doing it.

Anyone know how children testify in Idaho?

[dannyodie]

I haven't checked, but just going from memory about what I think I heard in this regard. shasta doesn't have to set in front of a court setting. I believe that it would be like a closed circuit link with the court proceedings. and questioning the witness would be done by an the one that has been assigned to her case already, they have to build her complete trust so that she has one outlet to talk too. to many would possibly cause her to clam-up. there are strick laws in place that protects children from having to set in front of a jury case,but can if they choose to do so, I would think that would depend on the particular case being played out. the important thing for us all to remember that this child has a long recovery ahead of her, right now she may appear fine, but we don't know what pain lurks beneath that could surface at anytime.

[Cowgirl]

I haven't checked, but just going from memory about what I think I heard in this regard. shasta doesn't have to set in front of a court setting. I believe that it would be like a closed circuit link with the court proceedings. and questioning the witness would be done by an the one that has been assigned to her case already, they have to build her complete trust so that she has one outlet to talk too. to many would possibly cause her to clam-up. there are strick laws in place that protects children from having to set in front of a jury case,but can if they choose to do so, I would think that would depend on the particular case being played out. the important thing for us all to remember that this child has a long recovery ahead of her, right now she may appear fine, but we don't know what pain lurks beneath that could surface at anytime.I agree, dannyodie. While it is wonderful that she is not currently a basket case on the surface, it certainly doesn't mean she needs no therapy. I only hope she doesn't have some mind images that she cannot forget, ever. Sometimes these are suppressed and sometimes not. But even without seeing what happened, knowing what happened will be a problem for her the rest of her life, I would imagine.

I know different states have different rules about a child victim's testimony but I would imagine they will be as gentle as possible if she is needed at all.

[MI left]

This is terrible.

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/20050707/pressrel-20050707.htm

"Law enforcement officials believe that kidnapped Coeur d'Alene boy Dylan Groene was cremated at a campsite near St. Regis, the Clark Fork Chronicle reported in a copyrighted story."

"The Clark Fork Chronicle chose not to publish four other elements of the story:
(1) details about the location of a second campsite under investigation;
(2) details about how and where the cremation took place;
(3) details of the evidence that led investigators to the Twomile campsite, and
(4) details about the evidence that led investigators to believe that Dylan Groene was cremated."

"The Clark Fork Chronicle story also reported that suspect Joseph Edward Duncan III had circled the locations of several lookout towers on a St. Regis-area map....The story reports that Duncan had a copy of the DeLorme Montana Atlas and Gazetteer, a bound 96-page book that offers detailed maps showing remote forest roads...."

[Tom'sGirl]

This is terrible.

http://http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/20050707/pressrel-20050707.htm

"Law enforcement officials believe that kidnapped Coeur d'Alene boy Dylan Groene was cremated at a campsite near St. Regis, the Clark Fork Chronicle reported in a copyrighted story."

"The Clark Fork Chronicle chose not to publish four other elements of the story:
(1) details about the location of a second campsite under investigation;
(2) details about how and where the cremation took place;
(3) details of the evidence that led investigators to the Twomile campsite, and
(4) details about the evidence that led investigators to believe that Dylan Groene was cremated."

"The Clark Fork Chronicle story also reported that suspect Joseph Edward Duncan III had circled the locations of several lookout towers on a St. Regis-area map....The story reports that Duncan had a copy of the DeLorme Montana Atlas and Gazetteer, a bound 96-page book that offers detailed maps showing remote forest roads...."
Well poop, that link won't work for me!

[MI left]

Sorry about that - new here.
Try this:

July 7 issue

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com (http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/).

[Tom'sGirl]

Sorry about that - new here.
Try this:

July 7 issue

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com (http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/).
Thanks so much MI left......AND Welcome to WS!

[Tom'sGirl]

I agree, dannyodie. While it is wonderful that she is not currently a basket case on the surface, it certainly doesn't mean she needs no therapy. I only hope she doesn't have some mind images that she cannot forget, ever. Sometimes these are suppressed and sometimes not. But even without seeing what happened, knowing what happened will be a problem for her the rest of her life, I would imagine.

I know different states have different rules about a child victim's testimony but I would imagine they will be as gentle as possible if she is needed at all.
July 11th.......Just read this!

Dylan's and Shasta's father, Steve Groene, said Shasta did not know the fate of her brother until the family received confirmation this weekend.



“She asked me last week in the hospital if I knew what had happened to Dylan,” Groene said.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?submitDate=200571012524 ("")

[IdahoMom]

What a filthy, rotten SOB!!!!! To do that to poor Dylan's body!?!?!?!?

I truly hate this man!!!!!:furious: :furious: :furious: :furious:

[Liz]

July 11th.......Just read this!

Dylan's and Shasta's father, Steve Groene, said Shasta did not know the fate of her brother until the family received confirmation this weekend.



“She asked me last week in the hospital if I knew what had happened to Dylan,” Groene said.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?submitDate=200571012524 ("")


Wow, TG! I hadn't heard that, and thought for sure she saw what happened to him! Maybe my 11 pm news will give me some of that info!

Thank you for posting that, Tom'sGirl!

[Tom'sGirl]

Wow, TG! I hadn't heard that, and thought for sure she saw what happened to him! Maybe my 11 pm news will give me some of that info!

Thank you for posting that, Tom'sGirl!
Your welcome as always Liz,

It has always been my thinking that she didn't see it actually happen, or what happened to her family at their house either..........JMO here.

[mysteriew]

July 11th.......Just read this!

Dylan's and Shasta's father, Steve Groene, said Shasta did not know the fate of her brother until the family received confirmation this weekend.

“She asked me last week in the hospital if I knew what had happened to Dylan,” Groene said.

http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?submitDate=200571012524 ("")

Sorry Tom'sGirl, I couldn't get that link to work. Here is the link I found there.

http://spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=79500

[Tom'sGirl]

[QUOTE=Tom'sGirl]July 11th.......Just read this!

Dylan's and Shasta's father, Steve Groene, said Shasta did not know the fate of her brother until the family received confirmation this weekend.


“She asked me last week in the hospital if I knew what had happened to Dylan,” Groene said.

SORRY ABOUT THE POSTED LINK THAT DIDN'T WORK:confused:

http://spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=79500

[Beyond Belief]

omg This case gets worse everyday.

An eye for an eye. I vote burn him at the stake, like tomorrow.

[Shazzie]

Sorry about that - new here.
Try this:

July 7 issue

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com (http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/).
Thanks!

Here's a more direct link, in case anyone has trouble tracking the story down:

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/20050707/pressrel-20050707.htm

Hope that works!

[Beyond Belief]

Fox said that the SOB was stalking the family for two or three days using night vision goggles. Now I understand how squeezed his visit in between all the others coming and going.

[Cowgirl]

[QUOTE=Tom'sGirl]July 11th.......Just read this!

Dylan's and Shasta's father, Steve Groene, said Shasta did not know the fate of her brother until the family received confirmation this weekend.


“She asked me last week in the hospital if I knew what had happened to Dylan,” Groene said.

SORRY ABOUT THE POSTED LINK THAT DIDN'T WORK:confused:

http://spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=79500 Well, good,

At least she was spared that horror.

[kk's mom]

omg This case gets worse everyday.

An eye for an eye. I vote burn him at the stake, like tomorrow.

It's extremely disturbing and has upset me pretty bad. I just don't understand how someone can do this. I know there are people out there who do, but what can possible drive a person to something like this. That poor family. To read that Shasta saw Slade staggering outside with blood all over him is very overwhelming. And then for this pig to brag to her about how he killed her family. Unf*cking believable. I honestly don't know what type of person can defend this man, law degree or no law degree. If I were a public defender, I'd quit before I had to defend a sick freak like this guy.

And now reading that Duncan "cremated" Dylan. WTF? Was the poor kid alive when he did this? God, I can't even think about it without having difficulty breathing.

My heart is heavy for Shasta and her family. May God give them the strengh they need to get through what lies ahead. d

[joanofarc]

How awful that Dylan may have been cremated!!

I would suppose that Duncan put him in the campfire that no doubt was burning 24/7.....the article says that he may have dumped some of the remains/ashes in the water...to disperse of them....but from what I have learned is that teeth, fragments of bones can sometimes be found in fire pits/barrels that have been burning for days....perhaps LE came across some of these in the fire pit in order to be able to identify Dylan.....

I wonder did they sleep in a tent at the campsite (hoping against hope that Shasta was in the tent when Dylan was killed)?? Can you even imagine...for Shasta, days and days of nothing to look forward to but torture and abuse by this man. I am amazed that she isn't a trembling, incoherent "basket" case and so traumitized by this that she cannot speak...She is truly a wonder and must be made of some pretty strong "stuff" to have survived this ordeal....I pray she gets the help she will most certainly need to cope with her life in the future......

[Pharlap]

omg This case gets worse everyday.

An eye for an eye. I vote burn him at the stake, like tomorrow.
Good idea........Better yet, send him to Iraq......:eek:

[Dara]

I honestly don't know what type of person can defend this man, law degree or no law degree. If I were a public defender, I'd quit before I had to defend a sick freak like this guy.


Speaking of public defenders, how many does Duncan get? I've read two names of public defenders.

Duncan, 42, is being held without bail in the Kootenai County Jail. Public defender Lynn Nelson on Thursday filed a bail reduction request that will be heard at a July 19 hearing at which Duncan is expected to enter a plea. Nelson did not return telephone messages left by The Associated Press on Friday.

Link (http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2005/07/10/news/the_west/west01.txt)

Public defender John Adams declined to comment after the hearing. "We try to do our litigation in the courtroom," he said.
Link (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/13/national/a074246D03.DTL)

I'm just curious as to how this works. Do they give him a public defender for one hearing (preliminary stuff), then give him a permanent one later? Will he get more than one? I just realized I don't know much about how this works.

[mysteriew]

How awful that Dylan may have been cremated!!

I would suppose that Duncan put him in the campfire that no doubt was burning 24/7.....the article says that he may have dumped some of the remains/ashes in the water...to disperse of them....but from what I have learned is that teeth, fragments of bones can sometimes be found in fire pits/barrels that have been burning for days....perhaps LE came across some of these in the fire pit in order to be able to identify Dylan.....

I wonder did they sleep in a tent at the campsite (hoping against hope that Shasta was in the tent when Dylan was killed)?? Can you even imagine...for Shasta, days and days of nothing to look forward to but torture and abuse by this man. I am amazed that she isn't a trembling, incoherent "basket" case and so traumitized by this that she cannot speak...She is truly a wonder and must be made of some pretty strong "stuff" to have survived this ordeal....I pray she gets the help she will most certainly need to cope with her life in the future......

LE was able to recover some remains, and they were identified through DNA testing. I too have wondered if Dylan was killed before or after the "cremation" and where Shasta was when he was killed. I have also wondered- it takes several days to do a cremation and a pretty high temperature. So how long did this fire burn and how big was the fire?

[mysteriew]

Speaking of public defenders, how many does Duncan get? I've read two names of public defenders.



Link (http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2005/07/10/news/the_west/west01.txt)


Link (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/13/national/a074246D03.DTL)

I'm just curious as to how this works. Do they give him a public defender for one hearing (preliminary stuff), then give him a permanent one later? Will he get more than one? I just realized I don't know much about how this works.

So far Duncan has court cases in Minn., Idaho, and a federal court. Investigation is still ongoing in Mont. and possibly there will be charges there for Dylan's murder. He will be having a lot of "defense" attorneys.

[Dara]

So far Duncan has court cases in Minn., Idaho, and a federal court. Investigation is still ongoing in Mont. and possibly there will be charges there for Dylan's murder. He will be having a lot of "defense" attorneys.
I'll never keep them straight. But I'm going to try. So far, it looks like both Adams and Nelson have handled matters for him in Idaho courts. I wonder if one is designated his public defender and one simply handled a motion or was at one point his public defender and now he's got a different one. Or if a defendant gets more than one.

I'm curious as to how the process works when public defenders are involved, as opposed to other cases I followed, like the Michael Jackson trial. With that trial, I was used to seeing many different attorneys representing him, but when a public defender was involved, I thought you just get one.

[Cowgirl]

Speaking of public defenders, how many does Duncan get? I've read two names of public defenders.



Link (http://www.gazettetimes.com/articles/2005/07/10/news/the_west/west01.txt)


Link (http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/07/13/national/a074246D03.DTL)

I'm just curious as to how this works. Do they give him a public defender for one hearing (preliminary stuff), then give him a permanent one later? Will he get more than one? I just realized I don't know much about how this works.Dara,

Most of the time a public defender is assigned to a case and has a huge case load and fits in work for each client as s/he can. You can bet on this one, no one wants it. The first one assigned at the very first hearing was probably whoever was available that day because the judge was not really prepared to assign one right then and Duncan wanted to ask a question of a lawyer, so I don't think Lynn Nelson was ever assigned his case except for that hearing. And he submitted the routine bail reduction request. Yeah, right. Now John Adams is the second one mentioned but I would expect any lawyer would be trying to find any excuse at all to get out of that assignment, so don't be surprised if it changes again!

[Dara]

Dara,

Most of the time a public defender is assigned to a case and has a huge case load and fits in work for each client as s/he can. You can bet on this one, no one wants it. The first one assigned at the very first hearing was probably whoever was available that day because the judge was not really prepared to assign one right then and Duncan wanted to ask a question of a lawyer, so I don't think Lynn Nelson was ever assigned his case except for that hearing. And he submitted the routine bail reduction request. Yeah, right. Now John Adams is the second one mentioned but I would expect any lawyer would be trying to find any excuse at all to get out of that assignment, so don't be surprised if it changes again!
Thank you! Very helpful.

[Cowgirl]

LE was able to recover some remains, and they were identified through DNA testing. I too have wondered if Dylan was killed before or after the "cremation" and where Shasta was when he was killed. I have also wondered- it takes several days to do a cremation and a pretty high temperature. So how long did this fire burn and how big was the fire?I thought the same thing in regard to a fire--it would seem it would have to be a pretty good sized fire that might draw attention. But by virtue of the fact that there were still remains and not just ashes, the fire was not as hot as in a crematorium. If Shasta was around to see the fire, she apparently didn't know what was burning since she asked her father if they found Dylan and he had to tell her he was deceased. At least, that is what I surmised from the accounts I read and heard. I could be wrong.