View Full Version : Murder Charges to be filed 7/12
KXLY just reported that murder charges are expected to be filed against JEDIII for the murders of Brenda & Slade Groene and Mark McKenzie Tuesday, July 12, 2005.
More horrific details are emerging. :(
2nd time Edited title for literacy--I don't know what's going on but even after editing the title of this thread title appears illiterately (new word?)
so, I'll removed 'against JED" and see what happens
:confused:
I'm reposting this on this thread because it includes a few more details, that were mentioned in 6 pm news. Also, to everyone who read that post, it had an error in it. I corrected it and I apologize for it. Simple mistake - something I'm making too many of lately.
It's thought that JED had walked from the the jeep, where he'd left it ¼ mile away, to the Groene home.
Slade was beaten the worst. Investigators feel he may've actively resisted and fought with his executioner. (Bless you, warrior angel, Slade Vincent!)
The alleged murder weapon has been identified as a framing hammer (one side that looks like a meat tenderizing utensil that I have). Looks like a particularly gruesome weapon of choice, imo. :(
Investigators apparently are saying scum-bucket, JED, did use zip ties and duct tape in restraining his victims and to prevent them from yelling. It's reported that he lined all of his victims up, in a head to toe fashion, one after the other, after they were murdered.
The sheets off of Dylan's bed were missing, and they reportedly think that those were used to cover the children up with.
JED took the white pickup truck from the property (which incidently, I heard the other day was reported to LE by Bob Hollingsworth on SUNDAY, the day before the bodies were discovered!); and drove a short distance to where he had his jeep parked. After transferring the children, he dumped the pickup, and drove away in the rental Jeep Cherokee with the kids (using the sheet to conceal them).
******* end of repost***********
Let me add this, to make it worth your click --- It was also reported this evening that it's still unknown when charges will be filed against JED, in Montana, for the death of darling little Dylan.
11pm news update: LE are still trying to figure out exactly which state Dylan's murder occured in.
11 pm news update:
It's likely that prosecutor, Bill Douglas, will lay the facts before the judge around midday, July 12th, that will set forth probable cause for charges to be filed against JED III, for the "Premeditated Murders" of the three victims in the Wolf Lodge Bay home - Brenda Kay Groene, Slade Vincent Groene and Mark McKenzie. (Disclaimer: I am not sure if the verbage used above is correct. I am no legal beagle! lol!)
In addition, the U.S. Attorney's Office may file federal kidnapping charges, due to the fact that the children were transported across state lines.
Investigators are still trying to determine exactly where Dylan was murdered, so that murder charges can be filed in whichever state that was.
*Note*: I corrected a couple things in my 7:40 pm post above.
Another thing not related to court appearance reported in 11pm news: LE sayd that Slade briefly escaped from JED; and left blood throughout the home. That's why LE thinks Slade received the worst bluegeoning. :(
This came from the link Chico provided to a transcript of Grace's Headline News Program yesterday:
I believe it is the KC Prosecutor, Bill Douglas saying this:
"We will lay before the judge the facts which we will believe establish probable cause that this defendant committed first degree murder of these three victims. We will most likely allege that -- complain in the alternative. In other words, we will allege both premeditation and a felony murder that is in the course of a kidnapping, which we feel that -- even though those three victims, of course, were not able to leave the premises of the scene, we feel that that may make out facts for a kidnapping."
We'll have to call the following tidbit a rumor, until I can confirm it. Only because when I heard it on the news ... I couldn't believe I heard, what I heard.
I think that the prosecutor said on the nightly news that Duncan may be appearing before the judge tomorrow in a "Probable Cause Hearing". Like I previously stated, I'm no legal beagle; but that just sounded awfully fast to me!
I'm going to try to research that now, but consider it rumor until we know for sure.
mysteriew
07-12-2005, 06:03 AM
He will make a court appearance Tuesday for a probable cause hearing, Kootenai County Prosecutor Bill Douglas said Monday. Douglas did not say when the murder counts would be added.
http://cbsnewyork.com/topstories/topstories_story_193004019.html
Thank you, mysteriew! :) I was unable to find anything to confirm that at the three Spokane tv stations! Weird! Heard it on one of the 3 Monday!
But, I did find that there is some video footage at http://www.krem.com and I think there was also some available at http://www.kxly.com
Last, there are a lot of stories related to the case at http://www.khq.com
mysteriew
07-12-2005, 06:23 AM
“It’s probably the most complex case I’ve ever seen,” said Kootenai County Sheriff’s Capt. Ben Wolfinger. “You have two totally different crimes and you’ve got multiple jurisdictions.”
“Basically what’s going on right now, we’re talking,” she said Monday morning. “Everybody’s concerned that this is charged and prosecuted in the most appropriate jurisdiction to make sure justice is done to the extent it can ever be done in a case like this.”
While Duncan has a preliminary hearing scheduled for July 19 on the kidnapping charges, public sentiment appears impatient with due process.
The reader board sign at Davis Donuts in Coeur d’Alene expressed it this way: “Duncan, Welcome to Idaho, a death penalty state. May you get your wish and die.”
http://spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?submitDate=2005711195729
kline
07-12-2005, 06:38 AM
You know I know hindsight is 20/20 but with Shasta and Dylan's abduction and Slade being the most abused of the initial victims(and God only knows what else..)Im somewhat stunned to think anyone in LE was apparently going:
"Yep.looks like your typical drug burn.Maybe a Biker War...maybe the Mexican Mafia."
I mean Come on.You wouldnt have to be a rocket scientist to see 'PERVO'
written all over this from the gate.
Kline, it may not have taken a rocket scientist, but I can recall only one individual calling it from the get-go. I think it was some psychoanalyst or profiler guest, who appeared on either Nancy Grace or Dan Abrams.
Anyone recall that?
Mysteriew, you just gotta love those folks at the not "Dunkin", but "Davis" Donut Shoppe:
The reader board sign at Davis Donuts in Coeur d'Alene expressed it this way: "Duncan, Welcome to Idaho, a death penalty state. May you get your wish and die."
Those were my exact initial thoughts when I read part of the maggot's blog about his self-prediction of dying soon.
mysteriew
07-12-2005, 07:00 AM
Any way you look at it, this guy is going down. Everyone is falling all over themselves to file against this guy.
Cor D Alene for the three murders and the kidnapping and even the Feds are saying they are going to file for transporting the kids across state lines for sexual purposes. They are trying to determine where Dylan was killed, so that they can file there also. Too bad you can only put someone to death once.
BTW, I seem to remember from another case- that federal death penalties tend to actually get to the execution faster, because they have streamlined the appeal process. I don't remember where I saw that, so don't quote me. But I think I remember that from someplace.
kline
07-12-2005, 07:19 AM
I wonder if he isnt just going to plead guilty or whether the drama with him at martryed center stage will be more then he's able to resist, dragging Shasta and the community through the whole thing im sure will appeal to him.
As far as the investigation goes...I wasnt privy to the inside details of course but I begin to feel this was something more bizzare and random (about two weeks in) when they didnt have an arrest almost immediatly....which they surely would have if it had been something that originated in the tight little social circles that
recreational drug users and small time dealers orbit in rural America.
Of course One guy I know was listening to a bunch of people where I work discussing and theorizing over the case DURING THE FIRST WEEK and I heard him say:"Well, maybe they didnt know him! Maybe it was just some weirdo that came down the highway and took the two little kids so he could mess with them at his leisure." Swear to God.
"Too bad you can only put someone to death once."
We should take measures to change that!
Initiate my idea, which would be to let them just about die and then bring them back, again and again. JED should be killed at least 4 times, over a period of at least 7 weeks. Just keep playing "Annie's Song, Tomorrow", for them, in memory of the late Jessica Lunsford.
Didn't some murderer do that to his victim(s), when strangling them? BTK, maybe???
Sorry guys, but when it comes to "child predators", I have absolutely NO MERCY.
mysteriew
07-12-2005, 07:26 AM
From what I have been reading, due to the violence shown at the murder scene, it was felt that there was a personal connection- that someone was angry at someone in the family for something. That is what LE thought, and that is what the profilers thought. Though no one could come up with any theories as to why the two kids were taken, but one of the kids was killed.
Of course One guy I know was listening to a bunch of people where I work discussing and theorizing over the case DURING THE FIRST WEEK and I heard him say:"Well, maybe they didnt know him! Maybe it was just some weirdo that came down the highway and took the two little kids so he could mess with them at his leisure." Swear to God.
It wasn't one of the inmates, was it?
(Now that would make sense! lol!)
kline
07-12-2005, 08:59 AM
Ha! No, one of my co workers.
But I immediately discounted his supposition because the one certainty that i was sure of was due to the overkill and intimacy of the violence(beating someone to death would seem on the face of it to require alot personal anger as opposed to a gun.) that the killer MUST have had some personal grudge against the victims...making it someone local....shows what I know,though had I known Slade was the most abused I might have had second thoughts.
Well no profile is going to be an absolute.Look at the 1959 Clutter Family murder.
Perry Smith's pathology and violence was Very personal,but he was venting it on strangers.I think you could say that holds true here as well.
Cowgirl
07-12-2005, 10:46 AM
You know I know hindsight is 20/20 but with Shasta and Dylan's abduction and Slade being the most abused of the initial victims(and God only knows what else..)Im somewhat stunned to think anyone in LE was apparently going:
"Yep.looks like your typical drug burn.Maybe a Biker War...maybe the Mexican Mafia."
I mean Come on.You wouldnt have to be a rocket scientist to see 'PERVO'
written all over this from the gate.It comes from stereotyping. I own a Harley. I don't even mention that to most people because it locks you into an outlaw stereotype that is the furthest thing from my life. To me, it is tantamount to seeing someone sip a glass of wine and assume s/he is an alcoholic. It is an absurd leap. I knew when I saw long hair and Harley items that the biker gang crapola would start.
Somewhat in defense of LE though, there were rumors of sexual mutilation of the bodies and specifically the males. Now that we know the psyche of the monster Duncan, it fits his MO. But it would seem to most "normal" people that there would have to be a level of personal hatred there for the murderer to do such depraved things. It should have been a hint that they were not dealing with a "normal" person at all, I would think. Sometimes the things that criminals do are just beyond all human comprehension. They got this one wrong, but hopefully, there are not very many Duncans out there.
The meth traces found in the bodies made it easier to explain depravity. People would rather think that type of perversion is brought on by drugs. The only drug Duncan has used habitually is pot. And no one thinks pot makes people do anything--it more often makes people just lazy. Duncan's perversion is just his normal, straight insanity.
Gracelin
07-12-2005, 11:08 AM
[QUOTE=kline]
But I immediately discounted his supposition because the one certainty that i was sure of was due to the overkill and intimacy of the violence(beating someone to death would seem on the face of it to require alot personal anger as opposed to a gun.) that the killer MUST have had some personal grudge against the victims...making it someone local....
The rage is what hung me up for the last 6 weeks.. I couldn't look past it..I thought for sure, the case was about the cause of the rage!!
Well in hindsight the rage was part of the monster!
I think we who struggled with this case from the begining were as baffled as LE.
Le had lots of blood, the bodies and a pick up truck as clues..
We thought for sure they were holding out on us.
Cowgirl
07-12-2005, 11:17 AM
They also had missing children as clues. Only a few people opined that abducting the children might be the center of the motive and not just an after the fact necessity. I rejected the child abduction idea as just a hangover from the Michael Jackson trial and the Couey case and other child attrocities in the news recently. I figured there was some enemy the cops just hadn't revealed or discovered yet and not just a random monster. Doh! :doh:
I just heard that Magistrate Judge Scott Wayman found probably cause to charge JED III in the murders and kidnapping of Brenda and Slade Groene and Mark McKenzie.
I think formal charges will be brought against him tomorrow afternoon for three murder charges and 3 kidnapping charges . (note: *think*, not certain.)
surf_moon_stars
07-12-2005, 06:07 PM
The meth traces found in the bodies made it easier to explain depravity. People would rather think that type of perversion is brought on by drugs. The only drug Duncan has used habitually is pot. And no one thinks pot makes people do anything--it more often makes people just lazy. Duncan's perversion is just his normal, straight insanity.I would agree that about the pot theory, but if you look again at his video which I do not want to post (as it is on the threads everywhere), Duncan is not behaving like a guy who just smokes pot.....He looks completely strung out, deranged and angry, and that video disturbed me from start to finish.
If this guy was "properly" being watched with a better system in place, wouldn't this guy have to be "reporting in" to "someone" monthly etc...to follow up on his progress since being released, his lifestyles (on or offline), personal life, so he does not " prey, harass or hurt anyone again"??? :mad:
From what I know here in my state, probation is provided for certain crimes, and they are assigned "probation officers", how come pedophiles (sp?) are not "assigned" the same type of system of checking in etc...?????
They would have to ceratainly test people on probation for use of drugs, etc...which would give him the capability of using "meth" or harshser drugs
if noone was keeping any eye on him.
He seemed to strung out or "in a very disturbed state of mind" when he did make his "what is this *** Video".
Hope that the drug meth theory is just that , a passing theory, because this family does not need anymore "upsetting false leads or possibilities" being out on display for all to see.
My heart goes out to each member from both sides of the Groene family
Justice for Dylan, Shasta and the entire family is the most important.
Peace~Hope~Love~Faith
OneMADmomma
07-12-2005, 06:17 PM
Here's what we know so far about the charges...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162231,00.html
Glad the Feds are picking up the kidnapping charge. Maybe he will be put to death sooner.
Shazzie
07-12-2005, 06:18 PM
The alleged murder weapon has been identified as a framing hammer (one side that looks like a meat tenderizing utensil that I have). Looks like a particularly gruesome weapon of choice, imo. :(
Thanks for all of these details.
I didn't know what a framing hammer looked like, so I researched it to find out:
http://www.vaughanmfg.com/images/TiTech.jpg
YIKES.
newtv
07-13-2005, 12:56 AM
This came from the link Chico provided to a transcript of Grace's Headline News Program yesterday:
I believe it is the KC Prosecutor, Bill Douglas saying this:
"We will lay before the judge the facts which we will believe establish probable cause that this defendant committed first degree murder of these three victims. We will most likely allege that -- complain in the alternative. In other words, we will allege both premeditation and a felony murder that is in the course of a kidnapping, which we feel that -- even though those three victims, of course, were not able to leave the premises of the scene, we feel that that may make out facts for a kidnapping."
We'll have to call the following tidbit a rumor, until I can confirm it. Only because when I heard it on the news ... I couldn't believe I heard, what I heard.
I think that the prosecutor said on the nightly news that Duncan may be appearing before the judge tomorrow in a "Probable Cause Hearing". Like I previously stated, I'm no legal beagle; but that just sounded awfully fast to me!
I'm going to try to research that now, but consider it rumor until we know for sure.
Liz-thanku for your efforts - thats what most of us see in each other and appreciate-the ways you/we try to support one another with info-so dont beat up on yourself if u make a mistake..
newtv
07-13-2005, 12:59 AM
Here's what we know so far about the charges...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162231,00.html
Glad the Feds are picking up the kidnapping charge. Maybe he will be put to death sooner.good point
Liz-thanku for your efforts - thats what most of us see in each other and appreciate-the ways you/we try to support one another with info-so dont beat up on yourself if u make a mistake..
I appreciate that, Newtv. Thank you!
newtv
07-13-2005, 03:25 AM
i agree-too bad u can only put him to death once..and in a humane way at that-ever notice how the ones who get the dp have never been humane toward their victims-yet fight for every easy out they can get.
For yesterday's court appearance, we got to see the disheveled looking, unshaven JED, with what looked like a few days growth of a beard, in his purdy red jail 'outfit'. Much more flamboyant, to suit his transexual personality, than that icky bright yellow that he modeled the day before.
I don't know though, maybe he prefers the yellow, because it suits his chicken-$hiit personality.
Maybe he can get one of his 'friends' to put some new video footage of him, in his new outfits up on his website(s). That'd be sweet of them.
The 3 murder charges and 3 kidnapping charges were formally read to him. Jed refused to even say "yes" or "no"; and seemed unfazed as he learned of his possible punishment.
I believe I heard his next court date, his Preliminary Hearing, will be on July 28th.
ET correct the PH date will be July 27th
mysteriew
07-14-2005, 10:18 AM
Has the prosecution actually said they are going for the D.P. yet? I know they have 30 days to file that, but I am not hearing that the pros. has actually said they are going to do it.
Cowgirl
07-14-2005, 10:43 AM
Has the prosecution actually said they are going for the D.P. yet? I know they have 30 days to file that, but I am not hearing that the pros. has actually said they are going to do it.I don't think so. I have not heard it anyway. I hope the Feds do that. They will actually kill him. Montana and Idaho won't.
Has the prosecution actually said they are going for the D.P. yet? I know they have 30 days to file that, but I am not hearing that the pros. has actually said they are going to do it.
I am not certain that 30 day thing applies in Idaho. All I know it that when Shannon Sims of Krem asked the prosecutor if the state was going to seek capital punishment, he replied "that decision as well as the ultimate decision as to guilt or innocence will be up to twelve citizens". (That was verbatim.)
So, we shall wait and see.
ETA: Personally, I think death by lethal injection is much too good for him. I think lwop would be the worse of the two, afahc.
This article (http://www.bonnercountydailybee.com/articles/2005/07/12/news/news02.txt) has some info about the death penalty in this case. Doesn't address the question of 30 days, though.
Here's a snippet:
Douglas would not say whether he would seek the death penalty if Duncan is convicted of murder.
"It's a potential penalty, but a jury's going to have to make that decision," he said. Douglas is the Kootenai County prosecutor.
Repeats the info that the feds will handle the crimes against Shasta and Dylan. Also says so far, Montana isn't going to charge him with anything, but that could always change.
mysteriew
07-14-2005, 05:01 PM
Wearing a red jailhouse jumpsuit, a shackled and unshaven Joseph Edward Duncan, 42, at times looked down at the table in front of him, although his eyes were often closed. His chin appeared to tremble as District Judge Benjamin Simpson read the murder and kidnapping charges in the slayings of Brenda Groene, 40, her son Slade, 13, and her boyfriend Mark McKenzie, 37.
A preliminary hearing will be scheduled within two weeks.
Duncan's public-defender attorney, Lynn Nelson, said his client had wanted to speak as little as possible at his first appearance on the charges, filed Tuesday. The judge and Duncan were in separate rooms for the hearing, which was conducted by video.
Simpson did not set bail. Duncan has been held without bail since his arrest at a local restaurant July 2, where he appeared with one of the missing children - 8-year-old Shasta Groene.
All six of the state charges carry the death penalty. Prosecutors have not said whether they will seek the death penalty.
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/1-07132005-514130.html
From 7/14 Cda Press, "http://www.cdapress.com/articles/2005/07/14/news/news01.txt"Duncan impassive as charges read[/url]
[b]Suspected killer appears on six capital counts[//b]
Suspected Wolf Lodge Bay triple killer Joseph Edward "Jet" Duncan III said nothing on Wednesday as he made his first appearance in magistrate court on more charges that could send him to death row.
Duncan, 42, of Fargo, N.D., sat wearing the red jail scrubs of a high-security prisoner as he fiddled with handcuffs attached to belly chains locked around his waist. Magistrate Judge Benjamin Simpson read Duncan the six-count complaint charging him with six capital counts, three each of first-degree murder and first-degree kidnapping.
When Simpson asked Duncan if he could hear him over the video link from the Kootenai County jail, his lawyer, chief deputy public defender Lynn Nelson said he could.
"He has instructed me he wishes to remain silent as much as possible during these proceedings," Nelson said.
As Simpson read the charges during Wednesday's hearing, Duncan often looked off camera or sat stock still with his eyes closed, peering down at his shackled hands.
At times, he appeared to pout and hold back tears; at others, he stared directly into the camera with a look which appeared to border on defiance.
Duncan was again ordered held without bail.
After reappointing the public defender's office to represent him, Simpson again ordered Duncan to have no contact with Shasta or any remaining members of her family.
He then set a preliminary hearing to be held in front of Magistrate Judge Scott Wayman on July 27.
>>> Much more at link
vBulletin® v3.7.2, Copyright ©2000-2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.