Duncan Cased Home/ Night Vision Goggles

[Incognito]

http://www.krem.com/topstories/stories/krem2_071205_duncan-fargo-cash.9c37a617.html

[Incognito]

Here is another link, you don't have to register.

http://tinyurl.com/b5jsd (http://tinyurl.com/b5jsd)

[Shazzie]

Thanks!

This answers a lot of questions, IMO. He simply observed the household until he knew enough about their movements and habits to chose the right moment to invade their home. There was no need for him to make friends with them, do drugs with them, gain their trust, etc., per some of the theories that have been floated.

No need to wonder how he was able to "overpower" all those people, either. The dude had a freaking shotgun!

Court documents released Tuesday confirmed that Duncan spent two to three days keeping the Groene home under observation using night vision goggles to aid in his surveillance of the home.

When he went into the home he allegedly threatened the occupants with a shotgun and then tied them up with zip ties before removing Shasta and Dylan Groene from the house and putting them in a pickup truck.

[Liz]

http://www.krem.com/topstories/stories/krem2_071205_duncan-fargo-cash.9c37a617.html


Haven't even read the link yet, but ....

I KNEW IT! I knew it! I just knew it!

Eta: In reference to the night vision

[Cowgirl]

Here is another link, you don't have to register.

http://tinyurl.com/b5jsd (http://tinyurl.com/b5jsd) Hmmm...not a peep about sharing any drugs or meeting up with them prior to that night. Who was that judge who said that?

[Liz]

http://www.krem.com/topstories/stories/krem2_071205_duncan-fargo-cash.9c37a617.html

Thanks for the link, incognito!

Here's a couple excerpts from it:

"Court documents released Tuesday confirmed that Duncan spent two to three days keeping the Groene home under observation using night vision goggles to aid in his surveillance of the home.

During six weeks on the run, convicted sex offender Joseph Edward Duncan told Shasta that he had driven around her neighborhood looking for children. When he found Shasta, 8, and her 9-year-old brother Dylan, the documents say, he stalked their home for days, using night-vision goggles to learn its layout before bursting in, subduing their family with a shotgun and a hammer, and abducting the siblings, taking them to a remote campsite in Montana where he allegedly abused them.

The new details of the gruesome attack were in the minutes of a closed-door probable cause hearing before Kootenai County Magistrate Judge Scott Wayman on Tuesday, as Duncan was charged with first-degree murder and first-degree kidnapping in the bludgeoning deaths of three people in the family home."


Just before signing on here, I'd heard the news teaser for upcoming 5 o'clock news, and they said that JED told Shasta that he had stalked them for 3 days.

What a sick-o sleazeball!

[Incognito]

Well that clears up the premeditated part. Makes me wonder even more now about Beaner since he was in her area a week before she disappeared.

[fran]

Oh well, I just posted on the other thread about possibly 'meth' use my theory. I was right on some of it! OH, I never thought they did drugs together.

I thought he had a gun. Course silly me, I was thinking handgun, of course it would be a shotgun!

I thought he stayed at the campground and watched them from afar an snuck around the house after all the guests had left from the BBQ.

Wow! He watched them with night goggles.! Spooky!!!!! For at least two days! :doh:

The guy was on a mission. He wanted to take others out to pay back society for the injustice imposed on him,,,,,ie putting him in jail for his past criminal behavior (sex crimes).

At one time when he was incarcerated, he told a doctor he'd tied up 10 boys and molested all of them. I think he meant all at once. He later recanted but I believe the first story.

This is one sick individual..........

JMHO
fran

[fran]

Well that clears up the premeditated part. Makes me wonder even more now about Beaner since he was in her area a week before she disappeared.

IMO, I think he may be good for that one. You know, the very first submission to his blog was about Beaner. He thought he should start keeping track of his time so that IF LE came after him he could account for where he'd been. The odd thing is,.......he'd only molested boys before that so why would LE look at him for a girl? :doh:

PLUS,.....I saw this brought up on another forum or blog, Beaner's home was 200 miles from him???? Yet when Dru S. went missing he didn't even mention her yet she lived less than 1/2 as far as Beaner.

JMHO
fran

[Cowgirl]

IMO, I think he may be good for that one. You know, the very first submission to his blog was about Beaner. He thought he should start keeping track of his time so that IF LE came after him he could account for where he'd been. The odd thing is,.......he'd only molested boys before that so why would LE look at him for a girl? :doh:

PLUS,.....I saw this brought up on another forum or blog, Beaner's home was 200 miles from him???? Yet when Dru S. went missing he didn't even mention her yet she lived less than 1/2 as far as Beaner.

JMHO
franDru was too old for him. The only reason I doubt Beaner is because she is a female and he has a preference for males. Not that it would stop him, but if he were going to indulge his sick fantasies... he probably would pick a boy. Beaner's father said that some of the places Duncan scuba dove are only 40 miles from his home.

[Cowgirl]

Oh well, I just posted on the other thread about possibly 'meth' use my theory. I was right on some of it! OH, I never thought they did drugs together.

I thought he had a gun. Course silly me, I was thinking handgun, of course it would be a shotgun!

I thought he stayed at the campground and watched them from afar an snuck around the house after all the guests had left from the BBQ.

Wow! He watched them with night goggles.! Spooky!!!!! For at least two days! :doh:

The guy was on a mission. He wanted to take others out to pay back society for the injustice imposed on him,,,,,ie putting him in jail for his past criminal behavior (sex crimes).

At one time when he was incarcerated, he told a doctor he'd tied up 10 boys and molested all of them. I think he meant all at once. He later recanted but I believe the first story.

This is one sick individual..........

JMHO
franIt was actually six boys ages 6 to 10 when he was 16.

[fran]

It was actually six boys ages 6 to 10 when he was 16.

Thanks for the correction, Cowgirl! ;)

You're good!!
:blowkiss:
fran

[Cowgirl]

Thanks for the correction, Cowgirl! ;)

You're good!!
:blowkiss:
franNah, I just keep a lot of links!

[fundiva]

According to an article I read on Yahoo, Shasta was called to the living room by her mother, where they were all tied up. Duncan had the gun and was wearing leather gloves. He tied the two smaller kids up and laid them outside by the swingset. At one point, Slade came staggering out the door all bloody (which would account for the blood on the door). The kids could hear Mark screaming. Then he came out and drove them away. My guess is that Duncan stayed in the campground next door too so that he could have easy access to stalk them any time of the day or night. So sad....

[fran]

Dru was too old for him. The only reason I doubt Beaner is because she is a female and he has a preference for males. Not that it would stop him, but if he were going to indulge his sick fantasies... he probably would pick a boy. Beaner's father said that some of the places Duncan scuba dove are only 40 miles from his home.

Cowgirl:

I believe it's because of the scuba diving and the close proximity to Beaner's home that some feel there could be a connection. (not to mention the fact that Duncan himself brought up Beaner) Also, the fact that he was molesting both Shasta and Dylan, shows he's a sexual deviant, period!

I believe the only reason Shasta was still alive was because he just plain wasn't done with her yet. I don't think he wanted to get caught, I think he was just passing through town with her and like in his geocaching game, had her in 'plain site.' He wanted the thrill of getting away with it, IMO.

JMHO
fran

[Tom'sGirl]

According to an article I read on Yahoo, Shasta was called to the living room by her mother, where they were all tied up. Duncan had the gun and was wearing leather gloves. He tied the two smaller kids up and laid them outside by the swingset. At one point, Slade came staggering out the door all bloody (which would account for the blood on the door). The kids could hear Mark screaming. Then he came out and drove them away. My guess is that Duncan stayed in the campground next door too so that he could have easy access to stalk them any time of the day or night. So sad....
Fundiva.........do you happen to have a link to that Yahoo article by any chance?

TIA

[Cowgirl]

Cowgirl:

I believe it's because of the scuba diving and the close proximity to Beaner's home that some feel there could be a connection. (not to mention the fact that Duncan himself brought up Beaner) Also, the fact that he was molesting both Shasta and Dylan, shows he's a sexual deviant, period!

I believe the only reason Shasta was still alive was because he just plain wasn't done with her yet. I don't think he wanted to get caught, I think he was just passing through town with her and like in his geocaching game, had her in 'plain site.' He wanted the thrill of getting away with it, IMO.

JMHO
franEverything you say is true. I just would be more convinced if it had been a little boy. The blog was started with Beaner, so no doubt LE is interested. But the boys he was indicted on and out on bail on he never mentioned at all. That day, he says nothing and that night he says he went for a nice walk, like nothing happened that day. Later he mentions retaining a lawyer "just in case he is ever falsely accused" which of course did not occur to him for the first four years after his release! All that whining and worrying, and yet only after being accused he decides to get a lawyer "just in case"...

He even said that the only reason he was accused in the new case was because he was on the registry so every time there was a crime, they would question him, but the boys ID'd him from his picture and a pic of his car on the pervert database, so it was not because they were hassling him. He must have been good at conning people since many seemed to buy his reformed guy routine.

[surf_moon_stars]

A concern to me is thru all the "media sources" out there, did Shasta and/or Dylan possibly hear or see her family hurt as mentioned with the brother being hurt before they left( as recently posted), or did they get walked out and placed away from the area by Duncan (the trunk was mentioned) and not hear anything happening? :confused:


I am sooooooo sad to know that they may have heard any or saw any violence done to their family before this guy took them out of the area and/or state, when I heard earlier that they did not hear or see what happened.

This would be just unthinkable if they saw any part of this before he took them away. :( :(


Thanks for listening

[OneMADmomma]

Fundiva.........do you happen to have a link to that Yahoo article by any chance?

TIA
Here is one from FOX with same info:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162231,00.html

[Tom'sGirl]

Here is one from FOX with same info:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162231,00.html
Thank you OneMM.

[OneMADmomma]

Thank you OneMM.
you're welcome :blowkiss:

[fran]

Here is one from FOX with same info:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162231,00.html

Oh My Gosh! Poor Shasta! He bragged about killing her family and even showed her the hammer.
I cannot even imagine.

JMHO
fran

[Incognito]

Dru was too old for him. The only reason I doubt Beaner is because she is a female and he has a preference for males. Not that it would stop him, but if he were going to indulge his sick fantasies... he probably would pick a boy. Beaner's father said that some of the places Duncan scuba dove are only 40 miles from his home.
Perhaps we only know of the boys. Duncan may actually prefer girls. Is there a resemblance?

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/4317/shastaleanna6fr.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[Cowgirl]

Perhaps we only know of the boys. Duncan may actually prefer girls. Is there a resemblance?

http://img323.imageshack.us/img323/4317/shastaleanna6fr.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us/) The only resemblance I see are they are both pretty little girls.

I guess saying a sexual sadist has a preference is not the right terminology. But at age 17 he had already raped and/or molested and terrorized 14 children that we know about. All of them were boys. He claims he himself was raped by female siblings but I think that is more lying. I think he is just a lone sicko and none of his family members touched him.

[OneMADmomma]

after what we know now, I wonder if Mark's brother is freaked by the fact that his child too was being watched and could have met the same fate if Duncan had decided to act then. Eeeww...this just creeps me out. I hope that sick ba$tard absolutely gets what he deserves.

I have to say, I also feel so bad for these families after all the speculation in the beginning. How they must have been torn up while going through having to defend theirselves and loved ones over & over again. Who could have fathomed that this was all the work of one very evil sub-human who could murder a whole family to satisfy his own disgusting cravings. :sick:

Here is a link to an older story...looking back, it is just scary...
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/idaho/story.asp?ID=71643

[Cowgirl]

Oh My Gosh! Poor Shasta! He bragged about killing her family and even showed her the hammer.
I cannot even imagine.

JMHO
franI certainly hope Wacksman and Crary are proud of themselves. Isn't there a rabid dog we could lock up with Duncan to bite his balls off? This guy will never make it, even in protective custody. Even the most depraved child molester probably thinks that is sick. Dahmer was in protective custody too, remember. And the guard stepped out for a smoke...

[surf_moon_stars]

Oh my gosh.

I am so sad to see that information in the news. :(

I am in total disbelief with this information, and I am sending that
sweet little butterfly a million hugs and warm thoughts for a
future that I hope will be filled with love and support every day
of her life.


My heart goes out to every single person involved in this tragedy. :(

[OneMADmomma]

I certainly hope Wacksman and Crary are proud of themselves. Isn't there a rabid dog we could lock up with Duncan to bite his balls off? This guy will never make it, even in protective custody. Even the most depraved child molester probably thinks that is sick. Dahmer was in protective custody too, remember. And the guard stepped out for a smoke...
Hi Cowgirl,
You know I have often thought the first law we need to change w/SO's is the one that allows them to be in protective custody in the first place. They should be placed in GP on their first offense. I mean, damn our convicts have a "better" moral code w/ child predators than our judges/laws do. I believe they wouldn't last 3 days in GP. It would take a load off of tax payers because there would be no need for appeals or the DP. I think it should be the law that they have no protection, nothing special for them. Who protected the children? That issue just infuriates me.:furious:
OK, now I'll be on my way w/my little soap box following...

[Aunt Blabby]

I am convinced he had something to do with Beaner's disappearance.On one site he talks about getting in twenty dives that summer along with some pictures. Some were taken in Crosby which is close to Chisholm. He dove in abandoned mine shafts etc. Scarey!!! And how could he not have seen Beaner's missing flyers? You would have to talk to the locals to find some of these mine shafts. And I know my daughter helped put up flyers in at least a hundred mile radius of Chisholm. And I put up a lot in the Fargo/Moorhead area.

[Cowgirl]

Hi Cowgirl,
You know I have often thought the first law we need to change w/SO's is the one that allows them to be in protective custody in the first place. They should be placed in GP on thier first offense. I mean, damn our convicts have a "better" moral code w/ child predators than our judges/laws do. I believe they wouldn't last 3 days in GP. It would take a load off of tax payers because there would be no need for appeals of the DP. I think it should be the law that they have no protection, nothing special for them. Who protected the children? That issue just infuriates me.:furious:
OK, now I'll be on my way w/my little soap box following...As much as I agree with you, you know they would call that cruel and unusual punishment. And the state gets sued for not protecting inmates, so they have to provide some protection. But if there is any street justice in this world, guards turn their backs and shiit happens. If I were some lifer sick of doing time, I might be inclined to make it my business to make sure this piece of human sludge suffers a terribly slow and painful demise. Cutting his penis off and stuffing it in his mouth and hooking his testicles up to a car battery sounds about right to me.

[Aunt Blabby]

And he decides to mention it the following January in his sick blog? Six months later...and says he just heard about it. And decides to mention it just to try to cover his sick butt. Like how would that help anyway.....sounds to me like he was sorry they didn't check him out. This POS really makes me sick. Sorry for the rant.......

[Aunt Blabby]

I'm with you Cowgirl.........

[OneMADmomma]

As much as I agree with you, you know they would call that cruel and unusual punishment. And the state gets sued for not protecting inmates, so they have to provide some protection. But if there is any street justice in this world, guards turn their backs and shiit happens. If I were some lifer sick of doing time, I might be inclined to make it my business to make sure this piece of human sludge suffers a terribly slow and painful demise. Cutting his penis off and stuffing it in his mouth and hooking his testicles up to a car battery sounds about right to me.
:eek: , but i like it, :laugh:. Good one. It made me laugh which is hard to do w/all this horrible news...

Cruel and unusual punishment...let's put that into prospective as to who inflicted what, ugh. (I'm aiming that at the laws & such, not you. Didn't want to offend!)


Oh, let's hope guards go for a smoke often around Duncan & Couey & any other POS child predators:croc: !

[GOLDHEARTNUMB]

I don't think it matters... male or female... it's all about power and control and in the cases with children... the taking of innocence... he may prefer boys... but whatever he can get his hands on would suffice for his use... nobody knows what he thinks about during these acts, as horrid as it is to say, maybe he has fantasies about previous boys he's hurt while abusing the girls.

It is also not as rare as you would think, but female to male rape does occur and even female to female rape occurs, so as to JED's accusations in regards to that... it may have happened... but then again it may not...will anyone ever truely know the truth besides him?

[Cowgirl]

I don't think it matters... male or female... it's all about power and control and in the cases with children... the taking of innocence... he may prefer boys... but whatever he can get his hands on would suffice for his use... nobody knows what he thinks about during these acts, as horrid as it is to say, maybe he has fantasies about previous boys he's hurt while abusing the girls.

It is also not as rare as you would think, but female to male rape does occur and even female to female rape occurs, so as to JED's accusations in regards to that... it may have happened... but then again it may not...will anyone ever truely know the truth besides him?I have read that male or female means less and less the younger they are...and that makes sense about the power and control.

The reason I don't believe he was ever abused is his writing a story in his blog mess about a boy named "Jan" and Jan lamented how his own father only thought incest meant physical boundaries and ignored the mental part. Well this Jan was thinly veiled Duncan, and to me, incest is sex with a relative. Fantasies about sex with anyone are just fantasies, and I think this Duncan comes from normal stock but uses any handy excuse for himself. I know it is popular to believe that molesters have been molested, but there are plenty of victims who would never hurt anyone. There are also many perps who will use any excuse for their sick ways.

When you look at the Thanksgiving video on this sicko's site, they all look as though they wish he were not there at all... and they all look like nice normal family people, poor things. I would change my name if he were my brother.

[Txmom]

Darn cowgirl, I should have known a Texas woman would think of the appropriate punishment for this parasite--you went directly to the root of the problem.... My bil in PA is surprised that the women from Texas are so frank and direct---but I totally agree with you, some lifer will take care of him if given the slightest opportunity.

[Cowgirl]

Darn cowgirl, I should have known a Texas woman would think of the appropriate punishment for this parasite--you went directly to the root of the problem.... My bil in PA is surprised that the women from Texas are so frank and direct---but I totally agree with you, some lifer will take care of him if given the slightest opportunity.LOL, :laugh: You can tell your bil that I said "Bless his heart" which is Texan for GFY...heheh. (I am sure you know, but others may not!)

I am a born again Texan though, so that may explain it. I wasn't born here but I got here as fast as I could...Boston is my home town. I just hate cold weather.

Yeah, the lethal injection, or the big shot, is too easy for this scumbag. A shot of electricity in the right area is more appropriate! Slowly...

[Nchadwickaz]

I certainly hope Wacksman and Crary are proud of themselves. Isn't there a rabid dog we could lock up with Duncan to bite his balls off? This guy will never make it, even in protective custody. Even the most depraved child molester probably thinks that is sick. Dahmer was in protective custody too, remember. And the guard stepped out for a smoke...
I hope -- but still think that all sex offenders should be in g.p -- and not protected or treated differently -- screw their safety (the moment they choose to hurt a child, they lost that)....

[mysteriew]

Now don't you all shoot me for saying this. Some people just don't deal well with isolation. And I think that they should be given their choice of whether they wish to be put into G. P. or in special protection.

Of course I think that they should be required to earn special protection, by spending 24 hrs in a cell with the relatives of the victims. Then if they are still living, they can go to special protection- after they get out of the hosp.
Many may decide that they would rather go into G. P. :D

[railbird]

I have not been creeped out by a crime such as this since the Tate-LaBianco murders. The man is evil personified.

I really would like to know more about the people who helped him out financially and just where their interests lie?

[Shelayne]

~~snip~~
Some were taken in Crosby which is close to Chisholm. He dove in abandoned mine shafts etc.

Chills here. My hubby dives in those very mines.:eek: I wouldn't doubt one bit if Duncan had something to do with little Beaner. The way he brings her name up 6 months later--why he started his blog-- and trying to "remember" his whereabouts by looking at Quicken to me is boloney! And isn't it convenient that he can't find those receipts! Yeah, sure.

I heard tonight that he was driving down I-90 when he saw Dylan and Shasta playing in their yard in bathing suits, and that caused him to check out the scene further. As I heard that on my TV, my own boys were out in the yard in their swimming trunks. I wanted to call them in and lock the door.

How many of these monsters are trolling neighborhoods right now??? :sick:

[Tom'sGirl]

Chills here. My hubby dives in those very mines.:eek: I wouldn't doubt one bit if Duncan had something to do with little Beaner. The way he brings her name up 6 months later--why he started his blog-- and trying to "remember" his whereabouts by looking at Quicken to me is boloney! And isn't it convenient that he can't find those receipts! Yeah, sure.

I heard tonight that he was driving down I-90 when he saw Dylan and Shasta playing in their yard in bathing suits, and that caused him to check out the scene further. As I heard that on my TV, my own boys were out in the yard in their swimming trunks. I wanted to call them in and lock the door.

How many of these monsters are trolling neighborhoods right now??? :sick:I never lived in the country while raising mine, so they always played in the backyard........safer IMO

[Nchadwickaz]

How many of these monsters are trolling neighborhoods right now??? :sick:
1,000 sex offenders vanish in Arizona (http://www.dailystar.com/dailystar/dailystar/82862.php)

Probably all over the state of Arizona -- Just caught this and I am about to lose it -- So how exactly do you lose 1000 sex offenders? Not exactly feeling to safe knowing that in my state thousand unaccounted for sickos are running our streets -- possibly living next door....

All I can say is OUR POOR CHILDREN,.....

[joanofarc]

OMG what awful news!!

What really bothers me right now is Slade! I wonder if the SOB sexually molested Slade in front of Brenda and Mark...He must have been untied at one point if he staggered out of that house (I was physically ill when I read that part...:( )

SHASTA...and Dylan, too, still alive at that point...what horror for these kids to witness!!!

God help us.....take away this evil...

[Shelayne]

I live in suburbia, and I did a check for sex offenders in my zipcode, and it came up with zero level 3 offenders. For now anyway...

How DO you lose 1000 offenders? That is downright terrifying.

Things have to change! This is more than enough! One was too many, and now I am terrified that we (I don't mean you and I--I mean the collective 'we') will become desensitized to all these horrific crimes against children. I mean look at how people practically yawned (if they weren't cowtowing to Michael Jackson) over the MJ molestation allegations! It seems there has to be a murder before people are enraged. All this apathy makes me sick!

[Nchadwickaz]

Not sure what state you are in, but does your state list how many are Absconders? The Arizona Sex Registry shows that there are 264. Which bears the question, so one of the 264 could live next door, right? -- so how helpful is the sex registry, and does it give a false sense of security????

BUT KNOW WE KNOW WE HAVE 1000 MISSING - and still the registry only shows 264????

Hopefully your state takes this seriously and maintains their site and doesn't just lose them as mind obvioulsy does not -- I am in awe of how you lose 1000 sex offenders, and if not for seeing a glimpse of this on FOXNEWS -- I would have never even seen -- didn't see anything at all mentioned on local news.

[Cowgirl]

Now don't you all shoot me for saying this. Some people just don't deal well with isolation. And I think that they should be given their choice of whether they wish to be put into G. P. or in special protection.

Of course I think that they should be required to earn special protection, by spending 24 hrs in a cell with the relatives of the victims. Then if they are still living, they can go to special protection- after they get out of the hosp.
Many may decide that they would rather go into G. P. :DEr, they don't get choices in prison... I don't want to shoot you at all, but things are done for the good of the state, not the prisoners. They gave up their rights when they decided to break laws, so what they "want" is no longer a consideration. The state has to prevent attacks on prisoners because a) the convict cannot protect himself and b) the state would be sued constantly and c) the state has to pay to repair the damages if the scumbag survives the attack. And that is why prisons have stopped allowing smoking--they are sick of all the old timers with lung cancer, etc., and having to pay for treating those related diseases.

Protective custody, aka PC, punk city, ad seg, administrative segregation, isolation, and the hole are often all the same place. One hour of "rec" per day which just means one hour in an outside cage, often, just like the inside cage. Typically, it is often a single cell with no movement, no jobs, no going anywhere. That is why it is the hardest time to do, because they don't get to move around. If you live in a cage, getting out of the cage for any reason at all is desirable. But it could keep someone alive. If walking to the mess hall is the only freedom you can get all day, that means a lot, I would think.

But bad things happen in prisons and I think it is a safe bet something awful will happen to this animal, as well it should. I just hope he suffers.

[newtv]

http://www.krem.com/topstories/stories/krem2_071205_duncan-fargo-cash.9c37a617.html
its sickening what this scumbag has done-and no way anyone can prevent someone like that (except the people with the ability to keep him off the streets)..no way any of us could have known to be prepared for such things.

[Txmom]

Yes it is sickening what this parasite has done to this family and the extended family. The ones that are living are the ones that will suffer for many years to come. I do hope that Steve gets Shasta the VERY BEST therapist available for her and the problems that she will have to deal with. She will most likely need therapy for the rest of her life.

What I hate even more is that now we have to feed, clothe, provide medical and dental care, and attorneys for this parasite. I dont want my tax dollars spent feeding him, I dont want to provide an attorney for him, I dont want to give him medicine when he is ill, and I certainly dont want to provide dental care when he has a toothache. We have a witness to exactly what happened, and he has admitted to his crimes, and I want him--dead.

Maybe he will do the right thing, and this may be the ONLY right thing that he will do in his life, but maybe he will plead guilty and forgo the trial, which would prevent that sweet Shasta from testifying. I can only hope that some attorney would not be able to convince him to plead innocent.

[BillyGoatGruff]

Cowgirl:

I believe it's because of the scuba diving and the close proximity to Beaner's home that some feel there could be a connection. (not to mention the fact that Duncan himself brought up Beaner) Also, the fact that he was molesting both Shasta and Dylan, shows he's a sexual deviant, period!

I believe the only reason Shasta was still alive was because he just plain wasn't done with her yet. I don't think he wanted to get caught, I think he was just passing through town with her and like in his geocaching game, had her in 'plain site.' He wanted the thrill of getting away with it, IMO.

JMHO
fran
That's what I've come to decide. He was bored and wanted more thrills.
What better than to flaunt his crime?
And pedophiles who like pre-pub boys usually do so because, well, they look like pre-pub girls. So molesting a pre-pub girl wouldn't be that differnt for him---especially she he apparently molested his own sisters/female relatives as a kid (or so he claimed to the doctors at the treatment facility).

[surf_moon_stars]

cowgirl~

You are one girl on my buddy list for life.

I love ya to pieces, and love your posts, they are so insightful, and
I swear we think alike.... :) :D


This Arizona link is way too much for me, and now it's time to make a phone call to my friends who just built their "dream home" there, and let them know to keep an EXTRA CAREFUl eye on their little one. :doh:

Good night, when is this going to end....and why has there not been any good explanation as to why these people are continuously falling in and out of the system like this. :(


Just my opinion

[Liz]

OMG what awful news!!

What really bothers me right now is Slade! I wonder if the SOB sexually molested Slade in front of Brenda and Mark...He must have been untied at one point if he staggered out of that house (I was physically ill when I read that part...:( )

SHASTA...and Dylan, too, still alive at that point...what horror for these kids to witness!!!

God help us.....take away this evil...


I second that, Joan, "God help us and take away this evil".

I've been trying to get through these posts this evening to see what's here, and what's not, before I post duplicate information.

Ever since my 5 pm news and reading that ClarkFork article (about poor little Dylan) that someone posted on Websleuths, I been hanging out in the bathroom too long to be able to read the posts.

Yes though; you're right. Slade was loose and only tied at the hands; and at one point went running outside. Poor little Shasta and Dylan tried to get his attention to come untie them, but he apparently didn't see them. She couldn't explain how Slade ended up back inside! :(

More later ....

[Shelayne]

Not sure what state you are in, but does your state list how many are Absconders? The Arizona Sex Registry shows that there are 264. Which bears the question, so one of the 264 could live next door, right? -- so how helpful is the sex registry, and does it give a false sense of security????

I didn't check about absconders, but I am painfully aware that SOs are everywhere. They didn't have to register until the 90s, so MANY are just hanging around totally "incognito" (sorry, Incognito!:) ). My area did have some level 3s a few years ago--we had a community meeting with the local PD about it. The residents were very upset when the nice officer told us, "Look, they are every where. You just don't know it, so be vigilant, and be aware."

And my state? Oh, only the one that let this psychopath off with $15,000 bail. But it really doesn't surprise me one bit. And it makes my blood boil! We coddle criminals [predators] in this state. We love to give them a serious tongue lashing and a VICIOUS slap on the hand, and send them out into a nice neighborhood, preferably across the street from a school, and then write whiney letters/editorials in the paper about the "witch hunts" and the rights of those that have "served their time"--as if that erases anything that one has ever done. Then we are horrified, I tell you, just horrified when one of these parolees or ex-cons does something to one of our own, but for GOODNESS SAKE, please don't even THINK about instituting the DEATH PENALTY or we might go into convulsions. :rolleyes:

Yes, I am a bit sarcastic, but it has happened too many times. It is nauseating.

[BillyGoatGruff]

I certainly hope Wacksman and Crary are proud of themselves. Isn't there a rabid dog we could lock up with Duncan to bite his balls off? This guy will never make it, even in protective custody. Even the most depraved child molester probably thinks that is sick. Dahmer was in protective custody too, remember. And the guard stepped out for a smoke...
All the HIV+ inmates will be lining up to contaminate his food, too.

[Nchadwickaz]

All the HIV+ inmates will be lining up to contaminate his food, too.
Hopefully they will be lining up to contaminate more than just his food, maybe they could contaminate it directly in him....

Sorry, had too -- I hope whatever his fate is made to feel 1/10 the pain he has inflicted on his victims -- I know this won't happen since he is incapable of feeling... but still.....

[Liz]

This little girl, is just incredible, imo. To be able to recall and relate these details to investigators; that far surpass any bad nightmares I've ever had. Bless her little heart!

You all already know that JED reportedly spotted them as he drove by, as they played out front, Shasta in her bathing suit. That's when he first targeted them for their horrific abduction. He surveiled them for 2-3 days, from a distance using night vision. Being so bold as to go up and peer in their windows at night, to get a feel for the layout of the house.

Shasta said that her Mom woke her up, telling her to cooperate, as she was brought her the living room; where she saw McKenzie and Slade bound on the floor. "Jet" as she referred to him, forced them into zip ties, using the shotgun (reportedly a 12 gauge shotgun) to intimidate them. He took Shasta and Dylan out back and laid them on the ground, by the swing set. She reported that he wore dark gloves throughout the entire event. (A pair was later found by LE in the Jeep.)

She recalled that Slade came outside, in an attempt to escape, and was bleeding heavily from his head (I wonder how she was able to see the blood on Slade, in the dark). She and Dylan yelled to him, trying to get him to come untie them, but he wandered away; likely he was very disoriented. She didn't know how Slade got back inside. She told LE that she could hear Mark yelling out, "Ow! Ow!", as he was being struck by 'Jet'.

(I'm going to take a little break ... will continue in next post)

[dannyodie]

This little girl, is just incredible, imo. To be able to recall and relate these details to investigators; that far surpass any bad nightmares I've ever had. Bless her little heart!

You all already know that JED reportedly spotted them as he drove by, as they played out front, Shasta in her bathing suit. That's when he first targeted them for their horrific abduction. He surveiled them for 2-3 days, from a distance using night vision. Being so bold as to go up and peer in their windows at night, to get a feel for the layout of the house.

Shasta said that her Mom woke her up, telling her to cooperate, as she was brought her the living room; where she saw McKenzie and Slade bound on the floor. "Jet" as she referred to him, forced them into zip ties, using the shotgun (reportedly a 12 gauge shotgun) to intimidate them. He took Shasta and Dylan out back and laid them on the ground, by the swing set. She reported that he wore dark gloves throughout the entire event. (A pair was later found by LE in the Jeep.)

She recalled that Slade came outside, in an attempt to escape, and was bleeding heavily from his head (I wonder how she was able to see the blood on Slade, in the dark). She and Dylan yelled to him, trying to get him to come untie them, but he wandered away; likely he was very disoriented. She didn't know how Slade got back inside. She told LE that she could hear Mark yelling out, "Ow! Ow!", as he was being struck by 'Jet'.

(I'm going to take a little break ... will continue in next post)
what a remarkable little girl to be able to remember these details for investigators. this monster as I have said before should have never been let out of jail, what is going wrong with this nations justice system? you know, martha stewart has to wear an ankle bracelet so they can track her every move, and this piece of garbage goes through a revolving door of the justice system and back out on the streets to murder a family and take the life of a defenceless little boy and emotionally brutalize poor little shasta. gods justice will deal with him.

[dannyodie]

I second that, Joan, "God help us and take away this evil".

I've been trying to get through these posts this evening to see what's here, and what's not, before I post duplicate information.

Ever since my 5 pm news and reading that ClarkFork article (about poor little Dylan) that someone posted on Websleuths, I been hanging out in the bathroom too long to be able to read the posts.

Yes though; you're right. Slade was loose and only tied at the hands; and at one point went running outside. Poor little Shasta and Dylan tried to get his attention to come untie them, but he apparently didn't see them. She couldn't explain how Slade ended up back inside! :(

More later ....
maybe slade went back into the house to see if duncan had gone so he could help with untieing them and then passed out due to the loss of blood.?

[Liz]

On the 3 different Spokane stations I watched last night, I never heard anything about Shasta being paraded back through the house to witness the carnage.

After he came outside, JED placed Shasta & Dylan into the pickup truck, where he drove a short distance and transferred them into the Jeep.

They had several conversations on the way to Montana. The report has the prosecutor asking, "What did she say happened to Mr. McKenzie, Mrs. Groene and Slade?" The detective said, "Specific to the event, Duncan actually showed Shasta a hammer, a rather large hammer; he held it up and explained to her that item was used to kill Mark, Brenda and Slade." Detective Maskell (?) also said that JED described to Shasta how he used the shotgun to slap Slade across the face.

Investigators are still looking for that finishing hammer; which left it's distinctive imprint on the victims. They did retrieve an empty 'zip tie' bag from the vehicle; as well as a pair of gloves and night vision goggles. Also found in the jeep were Mark McKenzie's wallet and checkbook.

JED will appear on the six charges this afternoon, July 13th on three 1st degree kidnapping and 3 first degree murder charges.

I truly wish they would not have moved Jesse Groene from the K.C. Jail, so JED could be brought in there. :mad: But, it's better for Jesse that they did.

I'm taking Nancy Grace's report (that JED marched Shasta thru the house; to witness the gruesome aftermath, although I don't put it past him) with a grain of salt, until it's confirmed elsewhere.

[Liz]

maybe slade went back into the house to see if duncan had gone so he could help with untieing them and then passed out due to the loss of blood.?


It's possible, dannyodie. I wouldn't be surprised if he was looking for Shasta and Dylan, but was just out of it, from being brutalized with the shotgun.

I forgot to post that in all the court documents from yesterday, Dylan is not mentioned. There is no reference to him.

I truly think Shasta is in some type of altered state of shock; in which she has blocked Dylan's fatal demise out of her mind. A coping mechanism or something like that. I can't fathom how the little girl's doing as well as has been reported. I saw her grandmother on Nancy Grace & she reported that Shasta was playing outside, & running thru the sprinkler yesterday. Amazing! Truly amazing!

My thoughts and prayers are with her!

[Dara]

It's possible, dannyodie. I wouldn't be surprised if he was looking for Shasta and Dylan, but was just out of it, from being brutalized with the shotgun.

I forgot to post that in all the court documents from yesterday, Dylan is not mentioned. There is no reference to him.

I truly think Shasta is in some type of altered state of shock; in which she has blocked Dylan's fatal demise out of her mind. A coping mechanism or something like that. I can't fathom how the little girl's doing as well as has been reported. I saw her grandmother on Nancy Grace & she reported that Shasta was playing outside, & running thru the sprinkler yesterday. Amazing! Truly amazing!

My thoughts and prayers are with her!
I wouldn't doubt that Shasta's in some kind of state of shock (who wouldn't be?), but because yesterday's hearing was about the three murders that took place in the house and not Dylan's murder or the abductions (which will be handled in federal court), I'd think prosecutors would have only presented information about the specific cases they were responsible for. At least that's how I understand it at the moment. When Duncan is charged with the murder of Dylan and with the abductions, I expect we'll find out what Shasta does or doesn't know about his death and if she is blocking anything out. It's horrific to even contemplate what she may or may not know. Poor child.

Shasta really is amazing. She even remembered (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050713/ap_on_re_us/idaho_missing_children) the brand of hammer Duncan used to kill her family. I hope she takes some measure of peace from knowing that her bravery and intelligence will help prosecutors get justice for her family and for her.

[tired.old.hag]

Hi all. I've been lurking for a while, and I find this forum just great. Hard to write anything upbeat and positive this morning though, after reading the new information released about what poor little Shasta went through. I am physically ill from it, to say the least.

That piece of scum is a true monster. So far as whether he was abused as a child, so what if he was? I was abused as a child, as were many other adults, and we didn't turn into monsters.

I'm convinced that monsters like this are born, not 'made'. Some babies are born with gross and extreme physical, mental, and emotional abnormalities. It just happens.

My sister is a pediatrics intensive care nurse. She's told me how when babies are born with gross physical abnormalities, that sometimes they talk to the parents for a decision on whether to just not feed the baby, and let him/her die, because there just is not anything they can do to improve, let alone correct, the abnormality.

And other times, the doctors make the decision themselves, without the parents' knowledge or consent, because the abnormality is so extreme and horrible.

Well, they can't tell when babies are born if they have this particular abnormality, but as soon as it becomes apparent, I think regardless of age, the child should be confined to a special closed high security institution for life.

I'm being honest here. When these monsters kill someone, I don't think that's the worst of it. I think the worst is when they drag out and torture the person and the person has to endure the horror, and the very worst is when the person lives, like poor little Shasta.

JED displayed signs and symptoms of his particular abnormality of the soul (as I think of it) at a very young age. Look at all the people he has hurt so horribly. It would have been much better to violate his 'rights' and simply confine him. Feed him, clothe him, keep him occupied with educational and mild 'entertainment' such as book and Legos as a child, and as an adult, put him to work in the institution to help defray the cost of his 'maintenance'.

These people could do things like make blankets for the poor and homeless. Or to reduce the amount of taxes we would all have to pay for their maintenance, there could be a program where we could all donate used or new items, and these monsters could sit and list them for sale on eBay, keeping them occupied and working and contributing to society all day, and the proceeds could all go to pay for their maintenance.

I know I'm rambling on and on, but I'm a sick old woman (disabled), and today I am sick at heart, hurting so bad especially for Shasta, Dylan, and Slade, and to be honest, I'm blaming everyone who enabled this evil monster to do what he did to them, and to their Mom and Mark McKenzie.

There is one thing that he is right about -- he can't help it. He didn't make himself that way. And you know, it really doesn't matter at all how he got that way. Born or bred, he was the way he is from a very young age, and should have been confined -- permanently -- key thrown away -- no 'chances' to hurt anyone.

I'm sorry for rambling so much, but I'm really upset this morning.

Thank you for this forum, and for all of you who contribute. This forum is very informative, run very well, and you all are such nice and smart people!

Tired Old Hag

[Cowgirl]

Welcome, Tired! I tend to agree with you. It is time to stop worrying about how these monsters got this way and just cage them permanently, regardless of the whining they might do. It is time to protect the innocent. And there are fates far worse than death, for sure. Maybe after this horror being exposed so publicly, some things will change, though there have been plenty of monsters before this one. This one left his last victim alive and so we know how depraved he really is. I just hope little Shasta is able to have a life despite this.

Again, welcome and ramble all you like!

[Floh]

A big welcome to Websleuths Tired.old.hag.

British authorities should have confined little Jamie Bulger's killers forever, IMO.

"On February 12, 1993 a small boy who was to turn three in March was taken from a shopping mall in Liverpool by two 10 year old boys. Jamie Bulger walked away from his mother for only a second and Jon Venables took his hand and led him out of the mall with his friend Robert Thompson. They took Jamie on a walk for over 2 and a half miles, along the way stopping every now and again to torture the poor little boy who was crying constantly for his mommy. Finally they stopped at a railway track where they brutally kicked him, threw stones at him, rubbed paint in his eyes and pushed batteries up his anus.

It was actually worse than this. What these two boys did was so horrendous that Jamie's mother was forbidden to identify his body. They then left his beaten small body on the tracks so a train could run him over to hide the mess they had created. These two boys, even being boys understood what they did was wrong, hence trying to make it look like an accident. This week Lady Justice Butler-Sloss has awarded the two boys anonymity for the rest of their lives when they leave custody with new identities. We cannot let this happen. They will also leave early this year only serving just over half of their sentence. One paper even stated that Robert may go on to University. They are getting away with their crime. They need to pay, and we have to do something to make them pay for their horrific crime. They took Jamie's life violently away, and in return they get a new life."

More: http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/bulger.html

the above link is for an organisation known as 'BreakTheChain.org' and shows a sample chain letter to be sent to the judicial system in Britain in an effort to keep murderous children off british streets.

later the web page goes on to forward theories as to what made Venables and Thompson murderers at such a young age.

it's high time all civilised countries put a halt to allowing these people on the streets ever again once they ever commit any violent offence.

the two murderous thugs were released eventually, with protected identities and since their release, i have been expecting to hear of fresh offences -- not that i want Venables and Thompson to murder again, but that i believe they are hot-wired to do so and it will happen.

[OneMADmomma]

A big welcome to Websleuths Tired.old.hag.

British authorities should have confined little Jamie Bulger's killers forever, IMO.

"On February 12, 1993 a small boy who was to turn three in March was taken from a shopping mall in Liverpool by two 10 year old boys. Jamie Bulger walked away from his mother for only a second and Jon Venables took his hand and led him out of the mall with his friend Robert Thompson. They took Jamie on a walk for over 2 and a half miles, along the way stopping every now and again to torture the poor little boy who was crying constantly for his mommy. Finally they stopped at a railway track where they brutally kicked him, threw stones at him, rubbed paint in his eyes and pushed batteries up his anus.

It was actually worse than this. What these two boys did was so horrendous that Jamie's mother was forbidden to identify his body. They then left his beaten small body on the tracks so a train could run him over to hide the mess they had created. These two boys, even being boys understood what they did was wrong, hence trying to make it look like an accident. This week Lady Justice Butler-Sloss has awarded the two boys anonymity for the rest of their lives when they leave custody with new identities. We cannot let this happen. They will also leave early this year only serving just over half of their sentence. One paper even stated that Robert may go on to University. They are getting away with their crime. They need to pay, and we have to do something to make them pay for their horrific crime. They took Jamie's life violently away, and in return they get a new life."

More: http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/bulger.html

the above link is for an organisation known as 'BreakTheChain.org' and shows a sample chain letter to be sent to the judicial system in Britain in an effort to keep murderous children off british streets.

later the web page goes on to forward theories as to what made Venables and Thompson murderers at such a young age.

it's high time all civilised countries put a halt to allowing these people on the streets ever again once they ever commit any violent offence.

since their release, i have been expecting to hear fresh offences. not that i want Venables and Thompson to murder again, but that i believe they are hot-wired to do so and it will happen.
First let me say welcome to Tired (i just can't bring myself to call you "Old.Hag)! Good to have you here!

Floh,
I know this story well and signed a petition a while back to keep those boys in jail. This story just broke my heart to know that sooo many people saw them and could have intervened. It made me talk to my children in a whole different way. I mean, what kind of world is it coming to when you have to warn your children about other children...just atrocious! I have often asked myself what could be causing all of this to get so perpetually worse. The only common denominator I can come up with is carbon monoxide poisoning from all of the autos that now exist on this earth. I know this may be far fetched but I think the mind or genetics of some could be altered due to this invisible poisoning. I don't know...just my guess.
I do know that every time I see a kid hiding in a clothes rack playing in a store, I tell them that that they better get out of there before their mama loses them and somebody bad gets ahold of them. I scare them, i know, but my ending justifies my means. My little boy used to hide in the racks right beside me. Sometimes he wouldn't answer me. I think, what if I had walked out of that store to look for him and someone took him? So I made sure he was punished for hiding and not answering. He thought he was tricking me but he was scaring the sh*t out of me. I told him before we would go in, "you will get nothing from me today if you hide and someone could grab you and take you away from me forever". Luckily toys are good leverage and eventually, he quit doing that. I understood then why some people put their children on those wrist leashes. Sad it has come to that.

Sorry for rambling (see, Tired, we all do it!)

[dbmthur]

Don't know if this article has already been linked to but here is the url in case...probably same stories as the others...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050713/ap_on_re_us/idaho_missing_children

Sorry don't have time to read through, have to get ready for work...i'll check back later...

[Shazzie]

Oh well, I just posted on the other thread about possibly 'meth' use my theory. I was right on some of it! OH, I never thought they did drugs together.

I thought he had a gun. Course silly me, I was thinking handgun, of course it would be a shotgun!

I thought he stayed at the campground and watched them from afar an snuck around the house after all the guests had left from the BBQ.
Wow! He watched them with night goggles.! Spooky!!!!! For at least two days! :doh: I thought the same thing about the drugs and the gun. Never really thought about what kind of gun he might have, but I was sure he must have had one. Never would imagined the night goggles in my wildest dreams.

The guy was on a mission. He wanted to take others out to pay back society for the injustice imposed on him,,,,,ie putting him in jail for his past criminal behavior (sex crimes).

At one time when he was incarcerated, he told a doctor he'd tied up 10 boys and molested all of them. I think he meant all at once. He later recanted but I believe the first story.

This is one sick individual..........On Nancy Grace's show last night, Debri Opri said, "Nancy, I'm a criminal defense attorney. I would never represent this horrific human being. He's evil. He's not sick, he's evil."

I tend to agree with Opri. This guy is right up there with Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, and Jeffrey Dahmer, imo. Maybe not in terms of "volume" (although who really knows) but in every other way.

[curious1]

I know that here we exchange ideas and theories, but I hope the in the future we are not so quick to portray people as hopeless meth/drug addicts. I had said early on that this COULD be a random act by someone they did not even know and was basically told that was a dumb idea. I know it's usually not the case, but it does happen. I do not know why, but for some reason the Clutter case jumped in my mind after about 2 weeks of reading various things. I wish I could put my finger on what it was, but there was just something about this one that brought that case to mind. :waitasec:

[Beyond Belief]

I know that here we exchange ideas and theories, but I hope the in the future we are not so quick to portray people as hopeless meth/drug addicts. I had said early on that this COULD be a random act by someone they did not even know and was basically told that was a dumb idea. I know it's usually not the case, but it does happen. I do not know why, but for some reason the Clutter case jumped in my mind after about 2 weeks of reading various things. I wish I could put my finger on what it was, but there was just something about this one that brought that case to mind. :waitasec:
I don't think any ideas are "dumb". All information whether rumors or fact should be weighed to determine the likelihood of that actually being the reality. If not the reality in one particular case, it may be relevant in a future case thus having already laid the ground work for future investigation.

[Nchadwickaz]

I know that here we exchange ideas and theories, but I hope the in the future we are not so quick to portray people as hopeless meth/drug addicts. I had said early on that this COULD be a random act by someone they did not even know and was basically told that was a dumb idea. I know it's usually not the case, but it does happen.
I know for myself, I said from the beginning that meth was involved. I never have seen any of the people involved as "hopeless meth/drug addicts". The theory of the possiblity of drug use was confirmed....., so by discussing the theory of a drug connection, I don't see at quick to judge -- it was one of the details that were confirmed in this case -- meth use.

Because someone can see or exchanges ideas of the signs of use, etc -- doesn't mean that because of the use it makes them hopeless addicts -- it adds different elements that could or could not have to do with the case. I know that I have never spoke poorly of any of the victims or judge them -- especially since I grew up in that lifestyle and know that my parents did everything they knew how to protect us and raise us and the people that raised me still use today --

Ok so totally rambling, but just want to state the fact that because someone speaks of drug use, it does not mean to imply anything but the drug use and elements involved -- if anyone assumes "drug use" = "hopeless addicts", then those are their words not mine.

[curious1]

I don't think any ideas are "dumb". All information whether rumors or fact should be weighed to determine the likelihood of that actually being the reality. If not the reality in one particular case, it may be relevant in a future case thus having already laid the ground work for future investigation.
Well said.

[Jade]

You all already know that JED reportedly spotted them as he drove by, as they played out front, Shasta in her bathing suit. That's when he first targeted them for their horrific abduction. He surveiled them for 2-3 days, from a distance using night vision. Being so bold as to go up and peer in their windows at night, to get a feel for the layout of the house.


Well, so much for counting on dogs for protection.

Any word on where the dogs were through all of this?

My German Shepard would have been inside curled up on her bed asleep so I am not judging the dogs just wondering.

[mysteriew]

Er, they don't get choices in prison... I don't want to shoot you at all, but things are done for the good of the state, not the prisoners. They gave up their rights when they decided to break laws, so what they "want" is no longer a consideration. The state has to prevent attacks on prisoners because a) the convict cannot protect himself and b) the state would be sued constantly and c) the state has to pay to repair the damages if the scumbag survives the attack. And that is why prisons have stopped allowing smoking--they are sick of all the old timers with lung cancer, etc., and having to pay for treating those related diseases.

Protective custody, aka PC, punk city, ad seg, administrative segregation, isolation, and the hole are often all the same place. One hour of "rec" per day which just means one hour in an outside cage, often, just like the inside cage. Typically, it is often a single cell with no movement, no jobs, no going anywhere. That is why it is the hardest time to do, because they don't get to move around. If you live in a cage, getting out of the cage for any reason at all is desirable. But it could keep someone alive. If walking to the mess hall is the only freedom you can get all day, that means a lot, I would think.

But bad things happen in prisons and I think it is a safe bet something awful will happen to this animal, as well it should. I just hope he suffers.

Thank you for the info. However, my post was more about an "I wish" type thing. Much like your wanting to have him excuted by another prisoner. However, that really doesn't happen that often.

[mysteriew]

Hi all. I've been lurking for a while, and I find this forum just great. Hard to write anything upbeat and positive this morning though, after reading the new information released about what poor little Shasta went through. I am physically ill from it, to say the least.

Thank you for this forum, and for all of you who contribute. This forum is very informative, run very well, and you all are such nice and smart people!

Tired Old Hag

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/Welcome%20to%20the%20group/welgroup.gif

I hope you will stick around and post with us, when you are able.

[Beyond Belief]

Now don't you all shoot me for saying this. Some people just don't deal well with isolation. And I think that they should be given their choice of whether they wish to be put into G. P. or in special protection.

Of course I think that they should be required to earn special protection, by spending 24 hrs in a cell with the relatives of the victims. Then if they are still living, they can go to special protection- after they get out of the hosp.
Many may decide that they would rather go into G. P. :DAfter reading post 73, I came back here to see the original post. I absolutely love your idea:

""that they should be required to earn special protection, by spending 24 hrs in a cell with the relatives of the victims.""

[mysteriew]

After reading post 73, I came back here to see the original post. I absolutely love your idea:

""that they should be required to earn special protection, by spending 24 hrs in a cell with the relatives of the victims.""

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/proud/starznrose.gif

[Beyond Belief]

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/proud/starznrose.gif:blushing: YW

[Shazzie]

Don't know if this article has already been linked to but here is the url in case...probably same stories as the others...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050713/ap_on_re_us/idaho_missing_children

Sorry don't have time to read through, have to get ready for work...i'll check back later...
I think this is a duplicate, but that's fine by me. I'd rather have two links to the same thing than take the chance of missing an article as informative as this one. :)

[Tom'sGirl]

Well, so much for counting on dogs for protection.

Any word on where the dogs were through all of this?

My German Shepard would have been inside curled up on her bed asleep so I am not judging the dogs just wondering.Hi Jade..........So right on not counting on dogs, not all are good watch dogs, no mater what breed.

Obvisously even when Duncan was peeking in through the windows I guess the dogs never barked :doh:

[Liz]

Thanks to Surf_moom_stars for a link to this info (http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/12135078.htm) she posted on another thread. Some snippets:


"FARGO, N.D. - Joseph Duncan bought night-vision goggles here two days before renting a car in the Minneapolis area and fleeing from a sexual assault charge in Minnesota, police documents show.

Police in Fargo and in Detroit Lakes, Minn., have been retracing Duncan's steps to help with the investigation in Idaho. Fargo police said a receipt shows Duncan bought the goggles at a local Wal-Mart on April 13. He rented a car in St. Paul, Minn., on April 15.

Police started looking for Duncan after April 18, when he failed to contact a court officer in Detroit Lakes about his whereabouts. as required by law. Duncan was charged March 4 in Becker County, Minn., with molesting a 6-year-old boy, and was released on $15,000 bond.

Police made quarterly visits to Duncan's apartment after he was released from prison and moved to Fargo in July 2000, Magnus said. The visits were not required by law, even though Duncan was registered as a high-risk sex offender."

More at this link (http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/politics/12135078.htm)

[Liz]

More Snippets from link posted on Media Links thread:

Police: Duncan busy before trip (http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=97683ion=news")

Joseph Duncan may have begun forming his deadly plans more than a month before the murder of an Idaho family, police records show. On April 13, one week before he went missing, Duncan went to Wal-Mart in Fargo and bought night-vision goggles, a pocket-sized camcorder and a radar detector, according to a receipt obtained by police.

The contents of the Wal-Mart receipt were disclosed in a supplemental report released this week by the Fargo police. The report is part of a misdemeanor failure to register charge filed in Cass County after Duncan went missing.

The receipt, which totaled $731.99, also listed a car battery and a pack of tapes for the camcorder. A subpoena of Duncan's bank records by Detroit Lakes, Minn., police uncovered the personal check that connected Duncan to the purchase.

The week after the Wal-Mart purchases, Duncan had his last contact with a pre-trial probation officer. Duncan was supposed to keep at least weekly phone contact with the officer.

>>> More at link

[Tom'sGirl]

More Snippets from link posted on Media Links thread:

<A href="http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=97683ion=news"" target=_blank>Police: Duncan busy before trip

Joseph Duncan may have begun forming his deadly plans more than a month before the murder of an Idaho family, police records show. On April 13, one week before he went missing, Duncan went to Wal-Mart in Fargo and bought night-vision goggles, a pocket-sized camcorder and a radar detector, according to a receipt obtained by police.

The contents of the Wal-Mart receipt were disclosed in a supplemental report released this week by the Fargo police. The report is part of a misdemeanor failure to register charge filed in Cass County after Duncan went missing.

The receipt, which totaled $731.99, also listed a car battery and a pack of tapes for the camcorder. A subpoena of Duncan's bank records by Detroit Lakes, Minn., police uncovered the personal check that connected Duncan to the purchase.

The week after the Wal-Mart purchases, Duncan had his last contact with a pre-trial probation officer. Duncan was supposed to keep at least weekly phone contact with the officer.

>>> More at linkWow, he didn't charge the purchases so has $$$$$ in his account.........where's the money coming from I wonder, maybe his momma:confused:

[Liz]

Wow, he didn't charge the purchases so has $$$$$ in his account.........where's the money coming from I wonder, maybe his momma:confused:


I reckon from his 'sugar-daddy' boyfriends.


Eta: Tonight on the news I heard he also bought a couple packs of blank video tapes and an extra car battery.

[Tom'sGirl]

I reckon from his 'sugar-daddy' boyfriends.


Eta: Tonight on the news I heard he also bought a couple packs of blank video tapes and an extra car battery.
Yeah, them too!

[JerseyGirl]

And he decides to mention it the following January in his sick blog? Six months later...and says he just heard about it. And decides to mention it just to try to cover his sick butt. Like how would that help anyway.....sounds to me like he was sorry they didn't check him out.Yep, like he's upset that he didn't receive "credit" for his "work".

[JerseyGirl]

As much as I agree with you, you know they would call that cruel and unusual punishment.Oh, how I wish there was a way around this. IMO, it's not cruel and unusual punishment to put a guy in general population. That's the same punishment that other types of prisoners get and it's not considered cruel and unusual. What we should really allow to happen to these guys would be cruel and unusual but just tossing them into prison with the rest of the criminals shouldn't be. Prisons should only be responsible for the basics - feeding them, clothing them, giving them access to medical care when necessary ... as for protection, the prisoners should be responsible for handling that themselves. If they can't, oh well. But you're right - we're a lawsuit-happy society and there's always some lawyer out there willing to represent those whose "rights" have been "violated".

[JerseyGirl]

That's what I've come to decide. He was bored and wanted more thrills.
What better than to flaunt his crime?I honestly think that this sadistic narcissist was angry that he wasn't getting noticed. After having the children for all of those weeks, LE wasn't even close to figuring out that it was him. They hadn't caught him in the past. I don't know if he actually wanted to be caught and to pay the penalty but I do think that he wanted the notoriety. He'd probably prefer his freedom but couldn't control his ego and it was demanding attention. JMO.

ETA: I also think that while this was a part of JED's fantasy, he would like us to think of it more like a lesson: that he's shown us what happens when the mean people like us won't allow pigs like him to explore their sexuality with children. He's showing us that this is what happens when society imposes too many constraints. Had we only accepted his pedophilia as a normal variation of sexuality, and not made it criminal to have sex with children, he would be a harmless member of society. It's society's fault that he's done this - in his mind, he had no other choice. He probably thinks that he's taken one for the team. That maybe we will look at this and begin to reconsider our silly laws against grown men having sex with children. He was angry about not being able to do what he wants with whom he wants. He was angry about being punished. So he lashed out. In reality, he is the personification of evil, and he would have done this regardless of how society viewed him, (unless we had locked his a$$ up for good the first time). Torture and murder were also enjoyable to him. If we were a society in which sex with children was acceptable, he would have been writing blog entries about how we should allow people to murder. He's a sick son of a b*tch who would always find ways to justify his deviant thoughts and actions.

In any case, after all of this rambling, my point is this. JED wanted to show us what happens when we force these pigs to supress the "natural urge" to have sex with our children. If he was never caught, we'd never have learned the lesson. So I think that he did want to be caught. And I think that a part of him is happy that all of the other pigs with whom he's corresponded see what he's done.

[tired.old.hag]

IMO, it's not cruel and unusual punishment to put a guy in general population. That's the same punishment that other types of prisoners get and it's not considered cruel and unusual.

I agree so much. All prisoners should go in the same population, with perhaps the only separation being violent from non-violent, simply to avoid the guards having to handle chaos.

How can putting a prisoner in general population be cruel and unusual punishment based on the crime they committed, particularly if it's a heinous crime -- it's always confused me. If they don't want to go in general population, then they need to keep their hands off children, same as they need not to steal, etc.

Even accepting the argument that pedophiles can't help having the feelings they do, they CAN help whether or not they act on those feelings. No one makes them. No one holds a gun to their heads. They CHOOSE to molest. And in making that choice, it seems logical and natural to me that they are CHOOSING general population. And if that's what they chose, so be it. We must stop coddling these monsters who are hurting so many defenseless children.

Okay, I'm off my soap box now :) All just IMO of course.

[JerseyGirl]

Even accepting the argument that pedophiles can't help having the feelings they do, they CAN help whether or not they act on those feelings. No one makes them. No one holds a gun to their heads. They CHOOSE to molest.I think you're absolutely right. Is there something about being a pedophile that automatically makes you unable to control your sexuality? I'm seriously wondering. Are pedophiles "wired" the same way as rapists in that they can't control their urges? Maybe it's all part of that pedophile package? As a heterosexual woman, I've been attracted to many men in my life but never once made sexual decisions that felt out of my control. So even though it's sick and twisted to have sexual attraction to children, is it somehow impossible to not act on those urges the way that most of us control our sexual behavior? Are there pedophiles who spend their lives attracted to children but never act on it? Sort of like choosing celibacy?

I don't know - all I know is that I'm sick to death of these stories and I don't know how to change it.

[tired.old.hag]

I've never heard that rapists can't control their urges, or pedophiles either. Or serial killers for that matter. But here's how I know they can all control their urges. They don't walk down the street molesting and raping and killing people. They control their impulses until they feel they are hidden enough to be safe from being caught. That's all it takes for me to be convinced that they are making a choice. They're able to take one moment within all the moments they're getting ready to attack, to say "I'm not going to do this." Just like they do if a police car parks nearby, or a man comes home, or a light goes on. They think "I'm not going to do this after all" and they walk away.

So, to me, they can choose when they get those urges to go to a police station or emergency room, and tell them they have urges to hurt someone. The police or ER will be happy to commit them for at least 72 hours.

We MUST stop walking on eggs to excuse and protect and coddle these monsters, while they are literally killing our children.

Just IMO and my thoughts.

Sitting here looking at the pictures of Shasta and Dylan I have on my monitor.

[JerseyGirl]

I've never heard that rapists can't control their urges, or pedophiles either. Or serial killers for that matter. But here's how I know they can all control their urges. They don't walk down the street molesting and raping and killing people.That's a very good point. If it was completely uncontrollable then many of us would probably have witnessed people being snatched and/or raped right in front of our eyes. Yet they do wait for the "right moment" to do their sick deeds. So on some level, it is controllable.

BTW, please don't get me wrong. I have not one shred of sympathy for Duncan or any of his kind. We've all had our traumas. When we become adults, we are capable of getting the help we need if we need it. As you stated, when they feel "uncontrollable" urges, they could go to LE. I'm sure that someone with Duncan's history would have been taken seriously.

I honestly cannot wish enough bad things on him. No words can express the disgust I feel or the filth that he is. I used to be on the fence regarding the death penalty. With all honesty, I believe that I could execute Duncan myself without a speck of remorse or second thought.

[Wayne]

That's a very good point. If it was completely uncontrollable then many of us would probably have witnessed people being snatched and/or raped right in front of our eyes. Yet they do wait for the "right moment" to do their sick deeds. So on some level, it is controllable.

BTW, please don't get me wrong. I have not one shred of sympathy for Duncan or any of his kind. We've all had our traumas. When we become adults, we are capable of getting the help we need if we need it. As you stated, when they feel "uncontrollable" urges, they could go to LE. I'm sure that someone with Duncan's history would have been taken seriously.

I honestly cannot wish enough bad things on him. No words can express the disgust I feel or the filth that he is. I used to be on the fence regarding the death penalty. With all honesty, I believe that I could execute Duncan myself without a speck of remorse or second thought.
I share your thoughts regarding Duncan. I too could execute Duncan myself without a speck of remorse or second thought.

Regarding controlling ones actions ... IMO, these perps (waiting for the "right moment" to do their sick deeds), wait with the anticipation of future acts providing greater benefit than if they snatched and/or raped right in front of our eyes. IMO, they control their actions by acting out their assaults in their minds - in their fantasy world - and that acting out in their minds serves to plan and plot their assaults carefully, and then strike at the right moment in their sick and evil minds.

[Nchadwickaz]

I agree so much. All prisoners should go in the same population, with perhaps the only separation being violent from non-violent, simply to avoid the guards having to handle chaos.

How can putting a prisoner in general population be cruel and unusual punishment based on the crime they committed, particularly if it's a heinous crime -- it's always confused me. If they don't want to go in general population, then they need to keep their hands off children, same as they need not to steal, etc.

Even accepting the argument that pedophiles can't help having the feelings they do, they CAN help whether or not they act on those feelings. No one makes them. No one holds a gun to their heads. They CHOOSE to molest. And in making that choice, it seems logical and natural to me that they are CHOOSING general population. And if that's what they chose, so be it. We must stop coddling these monsters who are hurting so many defenseless children.

Okay, I'm off my soap box now :) All just IMO of course.
I all, haven't been around much -- busy with my three little one's all starting kindergarten this year.

:clap: On the above point -- I have felt this way for a long time -- Having know family and friends that have done or are doing time in general population.... I feel that all should be treated just like the next how are serving time -- why should they be seperated for their safty (especially when these are the prisoners that had NO regard for the safety of a child, or a woman, etc).

This is were people go who commit crimes, they should serve their time just like anyone else -- I do garentee that if they are made to serve time in general population - two things will happen. We would not have to worry about them even getting early release AND knowing that they will have to serve time with other prisoners who also view them as the sick scums that they are would possibly detour some from wanting to go their for their safety (which seems the only thing that they are REALLY concerned with in the first place).

These pedophiles and rapist, etc -- are even the lowest in a place like prison -- I say -- let nature take it's course and let them weed them out in there.

Thinking that maybe instead of protecting these animals, maybe give them a pink jumpsuit and send them right into G.P.

Ok -- sorry -- done ranting -- haven't been on awhile and just saw the evidence collected from the site and vehicle and needed to vent..

[JerseyGirl]

These pedophiles and rapist, etc -- are even the lowest in a place like prison -- I say -- let nature take it's course and let them weed them out in there.Perhaps when these sick bastards got word of the fact that they are now being treated like all other prisoners, with no special priviledges for their safety, we might see a drop in these crimes. What do we really have to prevent these scumbags from doing this now? The threat of going to prison IF their crime is reported (which is often a big if), and IF they are convicted. So they sit in prison for a less than appropriate length of time, and don't have to worry about basic safety like even someone who's in for car theft would! Steal a car, get your a$$ beat up and raped repeatedly in prison; rape one of our children, and we'll protect you at all costs. It's just not appropriate. If you commit a crime, ANY crime, you should get tossed into jail with the same rules and standards as everyone else.

ETA: BTW, THREE little ones ALL starting kindergarten??? Oh my goodness! You must be so tired! Bless your soul! :)

[tired.old.hag]

Ok -- sorry -- done ranting -- haven't been on awhile and just saw the evidence collected from the site and vehicle and needed to vent..

Believe me, I understand, Nchadwickaz. I was so shocked when I read those documents. As much horror as I thought these crimes entailed, I was not prepared for those documents.

[tired.old.hag]

Perhaps when these sick bastards got word of the fact that they are now being treated like all other prisoners, with no special priviledges for their safety, we might see a drop in these crimes. What do we really have to prevent these scumbags from doing this now? The threat of going to prison IF their crime is reported (which is often a big if), and IF they are convicted. So they sit in prison for a less than appropriate length of time, and don't have to worry about basic safety like even someone who's in for car theft would! Steal a car, get your a$$ beat up and raped repeatedly in prison; rape one of our children, and we'll protect you at all costs. It's just not appropriate. If you commit a crime, ANY crime, you should get tossed into jail with the same rules and standards as everyone else.

Well said, Jerseygirl.