How Duncan killed Dylan

[Mirielle]

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/

From a new post on planethuff, he has info about the way in which Dylan was murdered. The new information that he received states that Dylan was burned to death while Shasta was forced to watch. I am speechless! I bawled my eyes out.

I totally understand why Shasta was to terrified to ask for help or say a word when she was in public with Duncan.

[kk's mom]

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/

From a new post on planethuff, he has info about the way in which Dylan was murdered. The new information that he received states that Dylan was burned to death while Shasta was forced to watch. I am speechless! I bawled my eyes out.

I totally understand why Shasta was to terrified to ask for help or say a word when she was in public with Duncan.

Is this accurate? I thought it was reported by Steve Groene that Shasta had asked him if heknew where Dylan was and if he was okay.

[concernedperson]

This takes my breathe away. What a horrible, horrible creature!!!!!

[lady-eowyn]

It's too hard for me to follow this tragedy as it just gets worse and worse...but one thing stood out in the email that he posts that I have to question...It says that he put Shasta's hand in fire twice...and that he drug Shasta through the fire. If I recall correctly when Shasta was first rescued, they said she showed no signs of physical injury. Now I know you can quickly run your hand through a fire and not get burnt. But it seems if he did this that Shasta would have shown signs of burns on her body?

[kk's mom]

It's too hard for me to follow this tragedy as it just gets worse and worse...but one thing stood out in the email that he posts that I have to question...It says that he put Shasta's hand in fire twice...and that he drug Shasta through the fire. If I recall correctly when Shasta was first rescued, they said she showed no signs of physical injury. Now I know you can quickly run your hand through a fire and not get burnt. But it seems if he did this that Shasta would have shown signs of burns on her body?

What is planethuff? Who is posting this information?

[mysteriew]

What is planethuff? Who is posting this information?

planethuff is a blog about true crime. It is run by another sometime WS poster.

[lady-eowyn]

What is planethuff? Who is posting this information?
Planethuff is a blog...

[Cowgirl]

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/

From a new post on planethuff, he has info about the way in which Dylan was murdered. The new information that he received states that Dylan was burned to death while Shasta was forced to watch. I am speechless! I bawled my eyes out.

I totally understand why Shasta was to terrified to ask for help or say a word when she was in public with Duncan. Well, people can believe what they like, but I saw not one bit of evidence of burns on Shasta. She had two marks on one of her arms that could have been burns but looked more like mosquito bites or sores. But her hair would have been burned and is this person trying to say that Shasta was run through a fire multiple times and yet her skin has no burns? Come on, that doesn't compute. Even one time, a burn, even one that does not look serious, causes the skin the shrivel up and die. She had nothing like that on her body and by virtue of the fact that she was living outdoors with no medication, she didn't just heal from such an event on her own. This story is ridiculous.

Anything in the world could have happened to Dylan, but I just flat out don't see any evidence of Shasta having been burned. Her hair would catch on fire if nothing else and her hair looks fine. Since Shasta had to hear it from her Dad that Dylan is dead, I doubt this person knows anything. Believe what you like.

[Sherlock]

I don't believe this, at least not without more confirmation from a much more reliable source. First of all, if he burned him, did he then take the time to put out the fire in order to leave remains? If he was being burned, it seems he would have been burned to ashes.

Also, Shasta was unharmed when she was brought to the hospital, they only kept her to watch her and give her time with her family, as well as safety purposes. She also couldn't confirm right away that her brother was dead, or at least that was reported at one time or another.

This child's death is a tragedy, my heart goes out to him, his father, and especially Shasta, but I don't think it's fair to family and friends to speculate on such horrors until we know. The simple fact that this person is also saying Shasta was burned tells me that there are some inaccuracies to this story.

Sherlock

[lady-eowyn]

If he was being burned, it seems he would have been burned to ashes.
I don't think a campfire would get hot enough to completely reduce a body to ashes. But I'm with you, I don't believe it...it's another person trying to get their 15 minutes by emailing this story to someone who will post it. I find it rather disturbing that someone would even consider making it up.

[Cowgirl]

I don't think a campfire would get hot enough to completely reduce a body to ashes. But I'm with you, I don't believe it...it's another person trying to get their 15 minutes by emailing this story to someone who will post it. I find it rather disturbing that someone would even consider making it up.You are right. Flesh and soft tissue can burn to ash in a campfire but bones require a much hotter fire than that.

This story has no basis in fact. Shasta has no evidence of burns at all. And I don't understand someone spreading this story when it is obviously false.

[Sherlock]

I don't think a campfire would get hot enough to completely reduce a body to ashes. But I'm with you, I don't believe it...it's another person trying to get their 15 minutes by emailing this story to someone who will post it. I find it rather disturbing that someone would even consider making it up.

Lady: You are right, I didn't read the whole post, and didn't realize it was a campfire, that makes it even more unbelievable to me. Whatever method this sicko used to inflict horror on this poor boy, it's so tragic. I will wait for the official report - not even sure I want to know how he was killed. No offense to the thread starter for posting this, but these horrible scenarios that come out before the official report is released has got to be so hurtful to family and friends. :(

[Shazzie]

Well, people can believe what they like, but I saw not one bit of evidence of burns on Shasta. She had two marks on one of her arms that could have been burns but looked more like mosquito bites or sores. But her hair would have been burned and is this person trying to say that Shasta was run through a fire multiple times and yet her skin has no burns? Come on, that doesn't compute. Even one time, a burn, even one that does not look serious, causes the skin the shrivel up and die. She had nothing like that on her body and by virtue of the fact that she was living outdoors with no medication, she didn't just heal from such an event on her own. This story is ridiculous.

Anything in the world could have happened to Dylan, but I just flat out don't see any evidence of Shasta having been burned. Her hair would catch on fire if nothing else and her hair looks fine. Since Shasta had to hear it from her Dad that Dylan is dead, I doubt this person knows anything. Believe what you like.I saw that entry when I went to the site to look for something else, and I am not sure what to think about it. I had the same thoughts about Shasta, that there would have been signs of physical injury if all of this was true. Also, I could find no indication of how the person who sent this story to the site owner. I decided to stop reading when I got to the part about hands being held in the fire, so maybe I missed something. Does it say anything anywhere about how the author of the email supposedly acquired this knowledge?

I don't believe this story. I believe JED is capable of absolutely anything, but there are too many discrepancies here for this to be believable.

ETA the following along with a stronger statement of disbelief above: I didn't even think about the temperature of the fire not being hot enough for cremation (I don't know a whole lot about that subject, to be honest), but that gives me even more reason to feel this story is bogus.

[lady-eowyn]

these horrible scenarios that come out before the official report is released has got to be so hurtful to family and friends. :(
That's what bothers me most...and what is someone's motive behind creating these false stories? IMO that's sick in and of itself. Again, no offense to the person who started the thread and no offense to the blog owner...but I'm rather tired of these bloggers posting things as facts in cases without knowing them to be so. It made my stomach sick just reading that, add to that the fact that someone probably took pleasure in making it up...:sick:

[mysteriew]

I don't believe this, at least not without more confirmation from a much more reliable source. First of all, if he burned him, did he then take the time to put out the fire in order to leave remains? If he was being burned, it seems he would have been burned to ashes.

Also, Shasta was unharmed when she was brought to the hospital, they only kept her to watch her and give her time with her family, as well as safety purposes. She also couldn't confirm right away that her brother was dead, or at least that was reported at one time or another.

This child's death is a tragedy, my heart goes out to him, his father, and especially Shasta, but I don't think it's fair to family and friends to speculate on such horrors until we know. The simple fact that this person is also saying Shasta was burned tells me that there are some inaccuracies to this story.

Sherlock

It was posted a day or so ago that Dylans remains were cremated at the camp. That is why they had to send off for DNA for the confirmation of his death. I am assuming that since most cremations are not total, that there were probably teeth and/or bone fragments that remained. I haven't read anything about what they believe to be the cause of his death.
Shasta was able to tell LE about her mother, Mark, and Slade's death- yet she did not appear to know what happened to Dylan and they had to tell her when his remains were found. The only statements I have seen reguarding his death is shortly after her rescue- LE announced that they were searching the camp where Shasta reported she last saw Dylan alive.
Whether she was burned or not, probably only her family and LE and the hosp personnel know for sure. She was evidently not badly burned as evidenced by her pictures. IMO JED could have burned her to "mark" her- as he did with his first rape, but nothing has been made public about this.

[kk's mom]

I don't think a campfire would get hot enough to completely reduce a body to ashes. But I'm with you, I don't believe it...it's another person trying to get their 15 minutes by emailing this story to someone who will post it. I find it rather disturbing that someone would even consider making it up.

I think it's sick for someone to make something so horrible like this up. You'd have to be pretty warped to sit there and create something in your mind so horrendous as this and then to post it, good god....

[mysteriew]

Law enforcement officials believe that kidnapped Coeur d'Alene boy Dylan Groene was cremated at a campsite near St. Regis, the Clark Fork Chronicle reported in a copyrighted story.

The Clark Fork Chronicle story also reported that suspect Joseph Edward Duncan III had circled the locations of several lookout towers on a St. Regis-area map.

The two elements published in this week's edition were among six new elements that Chronicle reporters discovered about the case during the time that the FBI special evidence recovery team was working in Montana.

The Clark Fork Chronicle chose not to publish four other elements of the story:

(1) details about the location of a second campsite under investigation;

(2) details about how and where the cremation took place;

(3) details of the evidence that led investigators to the Twomile campsite, and

(4) details about the evidence that led investigators to believe that Dylan Groene was cremated.

The two published items relate to a site up the Twomile Creek drainage, southwest of St. Regis, to which the FBI permitted media access after its team completed its investigation in that area.

The cremation was reported to occur at that campsite.

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/20050707/pressrel-20050707.htm

[lady-eowyn]

Interesting myst...well at least someone else is reporting it, but I'm still skeptical (it's my middle name ya know) How come this Clark Fork Chronicle is the only one to have this information? Where did they get it, from a press release or inside sources? How come no other media outlets have gotten hold of this info is my question. You could argue that they are choosing not to print it out of respect for the family and all they have been through, but I wouldn't buy that with our media. The jury is still out for me. He might have been "cremated" and if that is true I would still think the story from planethuff is embellished.

[Cowgirl]

No campfire burned bones to ashes. That is ridiculous. My mother was cremated. I know what the crematorium told me about how many hours and what temperature is used to create ashes. It could not be done by a campfire. Get a life, story tellers. The truth is gruesome enough.

[kk's mom]

Law enforcement officials believe that kidnapped Coeur d'Alene boy Dylan Groene was cremated at a campsite near St. Regis, the Clark Fork Chronicle reported in a copyrighted story.

The Clark Fork Chronicle story also reported that suspect Joseph Edward Duncan III had circled the locations of several lookout towers on a St. Regis-area map.

The two elements published in this week's edition were among six new elements that Chronicle reporters discovered about the case during the time that the FBI special evidence recovery team was working in Montana.

The Clark Fork Chronicle chose not to publish four other elements of the story:

(1) details about the location of a second campsite under investigation;

(2) details about how and where the cremation took place;

(3) details of the evidence that led investigators to the Twomile campsite, and

(4) details about the evidence that led investigators to believe that Dylan Groene was cremated.

The two published items relate to a site up the Twomile Creek drainage, southwest of St. Regis, to which the FBI permitted media access after its team completed its investigation in that area.

The cremation was reported to occur at that campsite.

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/20050707/pressrel-20050707.htm

I believe the story of him burning Dylan's body to be true. What I don't believe though is the new posting out there about this piece of crap forcing Shasta to watch and him making her walk through the fire. When stuff like that starts being "theoried" is when it starts to upset me - that someone would actually make something like that up.

[lady-eowyn]

No campfire burned bones to ashes. That is ridiculous. My mother was cremated. I know what the crematorium told me about how many hours and what temperature is used to create ashes. It could not be done by a campfire. Get a life, story tellers. The truth is gruesome enough.
Exactly...he might have tried to burn the body, but he wasn't successful and I in no way believe that when they found Dylan's remains they only found ashes...I doubt that they only found bones. They might have found a charred body but not just ashes.

[gine]

Gasoline can be used as an accelerant. I know when our neighbor (cattle farmer) had cows to die, he would pile them up and pour gasoline on them and they would burn, even the bones to some degree. Also, I recall from a prior article that Shasta said, when asked about her brother by the waitress and officer, that "he is in heaven". That makes me think that she knew he was gone at that time. Just observations.

[mysteriew]

IMO it would have had to be a very large fire, that burned for a really long in order to burn up even a child's body. I would have thought that would have caught the rangers attention. Still repeated fires at night, to hide the smoke might have done it.
Recently in my local news, there was a story where a guy put his adoptive father in a "burn barrel" and repeatedly burned it. Supposedly all they found were some bone fragments.

[Cowgirl]

Gasoline can be used as an accelerant. I know when our neighbor (cattle farmer) had cows to die, he would pile them up and pour gasoline on them and they would burn, even the bones to some degree. Also, I recall from a prior article that Shasta said, when asked about her brother by the waitress and officer, that "he is in heaven". That makes me think that she knew he was gone at that time. Just observations.Well, don't you think a fire of that size might draw some attention? Or start a forest fire? Anything is possible, but they found "remains" and if Dylan had been reduced to ashes, they would not have been able to do DNA. Sure, a few teeth might still be found, but I doubt they would call it "remains" if all they had was ashes. And a child that young might not even have teeth left if his bones were gone. There was also no water at either campsite. The cops said so.

[gine]

I don't think there is a question as to whether or not Dylan was burned. I believe it is established that he was burned to some degree or another. The question is was he "burned to death". I certainly hope not. Also, I don't think anywhere I have read, correct me if I am wrong, stated that there was nothing but ashes; however, it did state that his remains had to be identified and that he was cremated, now to what degree???? Either way, it is horrible, and I hope to my living God that this monster did not place that child in a fire, bound and gagged and have his sister watch him burn to death, although from what I have read about him, it wouldn't surprise me. (I also know from experience that gasoline and/or diesel fuel (diesel burns hotter and with less flame) that cow carcuses can be burnt to the size of medium gravel, although there is still hair/hide, and teeth, some larger pieces of bone.) Let's just hope that God sent his angels for Dylan quickly, either way. :)

[GOLDHEARTNUMB]

I'm not saying I believe the e-mail of the details of what JED did... but I do believe that Shasta could have been drug through a fire and had her hand placed to feel the burn without it harming her in a way to be seen... the reason I say this... I am a firefighter and an EMT... countless times I have worked a fire and felt the burn of it and the most I have really gotten is what we call a "sunburn"... a burn so slight that it simply causes the skin to look sunburned... usually I got mine on my face... but if Shasta was in pants she may have had more protection... also think of how many times you check the grill... I place my hand over it to count seconds to judge the heat (trick I learned on the food network)... there are time it burns like hades... and I'm 6" to 8" awy from the coals... just a thought...

[Cowgirl]

I'm not saying I believe the e-mail of the details of what JED did... but I do believe that Shasta could have been drug through a fire and had her hand placed to feel the burn without it harming her in a way to be seen... the reason I say this... I am a firefighter and an EMT... countless times I have worked a fire and felt the burn of it and the most I have really gotten is what we call a "sunburn"... a burn so slight that it simply causes the skin to look sunburned... usually I got mine on my face... but if Shasta was in pants she may have had more protection... also think of how many times you check the grill... I place my hand over it to count seconds to judge the heat (trick I learned on the food network)... there are time it burns like hades... and I'm 6" to 8" awy from the coals... just a thought...And then after her clothes were charred, she went back to her suitcase and changed clothes? And her hair? "Drug" [sic] through a fire" is a lot different from standing close enough to feel the heat from the grill...

[Mirielle]

I would not have posted this had it come from most blogs. However, Huff has a great reputation and checks his sources out. If Riehlworld had posted this I would have just blown it off.

Duncan is a sadist. The way he killed the Groene family was utterly sadistic. His first sexual offense that he got caught for was extremely sadistic and involved burning the victim's buttocks. I think this report sounds like something Duncan would have done...more of the same m.o. from the pos.

I have never seen this done with a bonfire or campfire, but I know it is possible to stick one's hand in a candle flame, feel the pain of the burn, and not have a blister or a scar. I have actually seen people snuff candles with their fingers...something I would be too afraid to do. I think Duncan probably grabbed the kids under the armpits and dragged them quickly through the fire. It could be done like that, jmho.

One reason that forest service may not have seen any sign of Duncan or fires was that he was using unauthorized sites waaaay in the backwoods.

[mysteriew]

I'm not saying I believe the e-mail of the details of what JED did... but I do believe that Shasta could have been drug through a fire and had her hand placed to feel the burn without it harming her in a way to be seen... the reason I say this... I am a firefighter and an EMT... countless times I have worked a fire and felt the burn of it and the most I have really gotten is what we call a "sunburn"... a burn so slight that it simply causes the skin to look sunburned... usually I got mine on my face... but if Shasta was in pants she may have had more protection... also think of how many times you check the grill... I place my hand over it to count seconds to judge the heat (trick I learned on the food network)... there are time it burns like hades... and I'm 6" to 8" awy from the coals... just a thought...

I agree with you to some extent. First, Shasta was gone for several weeks and healthy kids tend to heal quickly. We don't know if Shasta was burned- when it occurred. It could have happened early on and she healed. As far as I know, they have not publicized a video of each inch of her skin to show documentation of any burns she may have recieved. JED did burn one of his victims, so I think it is possible.
To have been gone for so long and to have been as clean as she was on the video- I believe that Duncan had made some arrangements for cleaning up. He had planned this for some time, so he may even have had clothing for them or he could have taken them from the home. I did notice that Shasta was in shorts and a t-shirt when she was rescued, but yet she was taken from her bed. The clothing she had on when she was rescued did not appear to have been clothing she had worn day and night for 6 wks.

[lady-eowyn]

I would not have posted this had it come from most blogs. However, Huff has a great reputation and checks his sources out. If Riehlworld had posted this I would have just blown it off.

Duncan is a sadist. The way he killed the Groene family was utterly sadistic. His first sexual offense that he got caught for was extremely sadistic and involved burning the victim's buttocks. I think this report sounds like something Duncan would have done...more of the same m.o. from the pos.

I have never seen this done with a bonfire or campfire, but I know it is possible to stick one's hand in a candle flame, feel the pain of the burn, and not have a blister or a scar. I have actually seen people snuff candles with their fingers...something I would be too afraid to do. I think Duncan probably grabbed the kids under the armpits and dragged them quickly through the fire. It could be done like that, jmho.

One reason that forest service may not have seen any sign of Duncan or fires was that he was using unauthorized sites waaaay in the backwoods.
Ok...I agree with you about planethuff...I certainly don't put it in the same category as Rhielworld or scaredmonkeys. But I do feel there are some embellishments in this story if any of it is true.

[Cowgirl]

I would not have posted this had it come from most blogs. However, Huff has a great reputation and checks his sources out. If Riehlworld had posted this I would have just blown it off.

Duncan is a sadist. The way he killed the Groene family was utterly sadistic. His first sexual offense that he got caught for was extremely sadistic and involved burning the victim's buttocks. I think this report sounds like something Duncan would have done...more of the same m.o. from the pos.

I have never seen this done with a bonfire or campfire, but I know it is possible to stick one's hand in a candle flame, feel the pain of the burn, and not have a blister or a scar. I have actually seen people snuff candles with their fingers...someithing I would be too afraid to do.

One reason that forest service may not have seen any sign of Duncan or fires was that he was using unauthorized sites waaaay in the backwoods.There is nothing wrong with posting rumors, Mirielle. You said where it came from. At the same time, no one has to believe it! I don't disbelieve it due to the depravity. Obviously, this monster gets off on the suffering of others. I just don't see any evidence of her being burned. By virtue of the fact that she told LE about the hammer, even the name brand of the hammer, and that Duncan told her what he did with it, surely if he had burned or threatened to burn her, she would have said so. So I will, as usual, believe what is evidence and not rumor. Others are free to believe as they care to.

And no one has to defend posting it. Huff can post whatever he likes. It really doesn't matter if there is no sign of the story being true.

[Mirielle]

I think there is quite a bit of information the LE is not letting out, especially in relation to the children....probably to avoid a mob. I agree...we need corroboration from another source as to how Dylan met his fate.

[Cowgirl]

I think there is quite a bit of information the LE is not letting out, especially in relation to the children....probably to avoid a mob. I agree...we need corroboration from another source as to how Dylan met his fate.Yes, I wonder a lot of things. Shasta was in the woods with this a hole for almost seven weeks. Where did she get clothes? That is the kind of thing I think about. Did she wear flip flops all that time? How did they spend the time he was not molesting her? Did they find sleeping bags, a tent, anything else to camp with? I guess they could have slept in the truck, but they had to eat. And mosquitoes--they would have eaten me alive! Did he buy her some clothes? She was in bed when he took her, so she was probably in pajamas or a nightgown. So many questions.

So there is a lot they are holding back. And if they are trying to prevent a mob, it is probably a good idea that we don't know!

[mysteriew]

In response to Goldheartnumb you posted this:
And then after her clothes were charred, she went back to her suitcase and changed clothes? And her hair? "Drug" [sic] through a fire" is a lot different from standing close enough to feel the heat from the grill...

and now this

Yes, I wonder a lot of things. Shasta was in the woods with this a hole for almost seven weeks. Where did she get clothes? That is the kind of thing I think about. Did she wear flip flops all that time? How did they spend the time he was not molesting her? Did they find sleeping bags, a tent, anything else to camp with? I guess they could have slept in the truck, but they had to eat. And mosquitoes--they would have eaten me alive! Did he buy her some clothes? She was in bed when he took her, so she was probably in pajamas or a nightgown. So many questions.

So there is a lot they are holding back. And if they are trying to prevent a mob, it is probably a good idea that we don't know!

So are you saying that you have now reconsidered your postion?

[mysteriew]

I'm not saying I believe the e-mail of the details of what JED did... but I do believe that Shasta could have been drug through a fire and had her hand placed to feel the burn without it harming her in a way to be seen... the reason I say this... I am a firefighter and an EMT... countless times I have worked a fire and felt the burn of it and the most I have really gotten is what we call a "sunburn"... a burn so slight that it simply causes the skin to look sunburned... usually I got mine on my face... but if Shasta was in pants she may have had more protection... also think of how many times you check the grill... I place my hand over it to count seconds to judge the heat (trick I learned on the food network)... there are time it burns like hades... and I'm 6" to 8" awy from the coals... just a thought...

BTW Goldheartthumb, excellent insight!

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a255/mysteriew/Welcome%20to%20the%20group/welcome3.gif To WS

[Mirielle]

I just read on another post on WS that LE found the kids footprints inside the house tracked in the blood. Maybe JED made them take their clothes. Based on how much equipment the guy seemed to have just in computers...and nightscopes...and cameras...and scuba diving stuff (all a phallic substiute, I am sure), it wouldn't surprise me if he had tents and a sleeping bag. And maybe Mark and Brenda had camping equipment that he stole.

[ISPTRAX]

Well, I just read that Queen Freak's site and it's ridiculous. His embellishment is way over the top. I don't believe any of it...

[Mirielle]

Well, I just read that Queen Freak's site and it's ridiculous. His embellishment is way over the top. I don't believe any of it...
What???? I don't understand who you are referring to? The blogger Huff is a married guy and dad who is a primo crime writer. How is he a Queen Freak? Please explain.

[ISPTRAX]

What???? I don't understand who you are referring to? The blogger Huff is a married guy and dad who is a primo crime writer. How is he a Queen Freak? Please explain.

Guess I read thru it too quickly. Those Queen pics I thought were of him. Sorry if I misunderstood!

[Mirielle]

Guess I read thru it too quickly. Those Queen pics I thought were of him. Sorry if I misunderstood!
No, that was Duncan in drag. :sick: (Actually he looked a lot less scary that way than in most of his other pictures.)

We just don't know what else is out there on the web. This guy was obsessed with the computer.

[ISPTRAX]

No, that was Duncan in drag. :sick: (Actually he looked a lot less scary that way than in most of his other pictures.)

We just don't know what else is out there on the web. This guy was obsessed with the computer.

Omigawd! That perverted freak was a drag queen, too?! Did he blog about that??? How did I miss that???!!!!

[Cowgirl]

In response to Goldheartnumb you posted this:


and now this



So are you saying that you have now reconsidered your postion?What position would that be?

[Cowgirl]

I just read on another post on WS that LE found the kids footprints inside the house tracked in the blood. Maybe JED made them take their clothes. Based on how much equipment the guy seemed to have just in computers...and nightscopes...and cameras...and scuba diving stuff (all a phallic substiute, I am sure), it wouldn't surprise me if he had tents and a sleeping bag. And maybe Mark and Brenda had camping equipment that he stole.There was a story on Nancy Grace about him having Shasta march through the crime scene--that she saw her mother's bloody body and I don't think she could not see her mother if her footprints were there--so that would make sense. I didn't hear how they knew that, but maybe that is what he did...had Shasta get some clothes. Poor child.

Has anyone said whose white truck it was that he took from the crime scene?

[BillyGoatGruff]

I don't believe this, at least not without more confirmation from a much more reliable source. First of all, if he burned him, did he then take the time to put out the fire in order to leave remains? If he was being burned, it seems he would have been burned to ashes.

Also, Shasta was unharmed when she was brought to the hospital, they only kept her to watch her and give her time with her family, as well as safety purposes. She also couldn't confirm right away that her brother was dead, or at least that was reported at one time or another.

This child's death is a tragedy, my heart goes out to him, his father, and especially Shasta, but I don't think it's fair to family and friends to speculate on such horrors until we know. The simple fact that this person is also saying Shasta was burned tells me that there are some inaccuracies to this story.

Sherlock
Burning a body to ash without the help of a creamtory is incredibly difficult. And even then creamtories leave pieces of bone and teeth behind that must to ground up before being presented to the family in an urn.

Also, it may be what is being described is that the bastard forced her to run/jump through the fire--something we used to do on camping trips as kids. It's an American Indian thing--or so I was told--usually used to whip the braves up into fighting frenzies before a raid. I put nothing past this perverted ogre.

[Gracelin]

http://www.inlander.com/localnews/298391639739380.php

http://www.inlander.com/images/headings/news.gif (http://www.inlander.com/localnews/localnews.php)


Duncan Charged

by Kevin Taylor
Kootenai County prosecutors began laying their cards on the table Tuesday, documenting what evidence they believe ties a registered sex offender to three murders (the victims were all beaten to death with a hammer) and the abduction of two children.

One of those missing children, 9-year-old Dylan Groene, was later killed with a shotgun (a fourth murder charge is likely to be filed in federal court) and his body burned in a remote part of a Montana forest late last month.

[Cowgirl]

Omigawd! That perverted freak was a drag queen, too?! Did he blog about that??? How did I miss that???!!!!He posted a bunch of drag pictures of himself on the link that Hammerized posted last night, but it has been taken down. One was a series of him in a woman's bathing suit, the other in pink panties and a cropped top that tied in front. He was disgustingly insane looking and posted stories about taking on groups of other inmates and such. He looked as mental as the Silence of the Lambs guy to me.

But the minute I looked at it, I understood his relationship with Crary and Wacksman. I would bet my facelift that they are closeted gays.

[dannyodie]

http://www.inlander.com/localnews/298391639739380.php

http://www.inlander.com/images/headings/news.gif (http://www.inlander.com/localnews/localnews.php)


Duncan Charged

by Kevin Taylor
Kootenai County prosecutors began laying their cards on the table Tuesday, documenting what evidence they believe ties a registered sex offender to three murders (the victims were all beaten to death with a hammer) and the abduction of two children.

One of those missing children, 9-year-old Dylan Groene, was later killed with a shotgun (a fourth murder charge is likely to be filed in federal court) and his body burned in a remote part of a Montana forest late last month.


:furious:
omg, that is the most saddest thing. I can't imagine that shasta did not hear the last moments of her little brothers life. this man is the worst thing that ever breathed air, all those responsible for his release should pay the ultimate price, they should be fired from there jobs. what a bunch of real life losers. that is what is wrong with this nation, every state wants there own hand in dealing with these monsters, this should only be regulated only by the federal govt. and not let the local law makers make the decision as to how to deal with these monsters, duncan should face the same fate as his victims, I know this is not christian of me, but I will not offer any kind of prayer for him. he deserves to suffer what the lord has made for those that lead a reckless life. looking back on the thanksgiving video how depressed and sad that most of those family members looked, having a sex offender as a family member, I wonder how they feel now? he has destroyed so many people. if a jury puts him in jail for life they are losers too, he only deserves to be put on the hot seat and fried to a crisp. and then burned.

[Cowgirl]

http://www.inlander.com/localnews/298391639739380.php

http://www.inlander.com/images/headings/news.gif (http://www.inlander.com/localnews/localnews.php)


Duncan Charged

by Kevin Taylor
Kootenai County prosecutors began laying their cards on the table Tuesday, documenting what evidence they believe ties a registered sex offender to three murders (the victims were all beaten to death with a hammer) and the abduction of two children.

One of those missing children, 9-year-old Dylan Groene, was later killed with a shotgun (a fourth murder charge is likely to be filed in federal court) and his body burned in a remote part of a Montana forest late last month.

Wow. I would not even want to be the investigators on this case:

"...a camcorder used by Duncan to film himself abusing Dylan and Shasta Groene during their weeks of captivity in the Lolo National Forest.

Sources say Duncan also used the camcorder to film what appear to be several attempts to kill the children."

Bye, bye, monster. No more mixing with the humans for you.

[fran]

But the minute I looked at it, I understood his relationship with Crary and Wacksman. I would bet my facelift that they are closeted gays.

Cowgirl:
I am right there with you on this one, IMO. These two probably wanted to be D***** 'sugar daddy.' To be honest with you, especially the picture of the doctor, gives me the creeps.

JMHO
fran

PS D***** is in reference to the alledged murderer and child rapist. I refuse to say his name! He makes me sick! :furious:

[chicoliving]

One reason that forest service may not have seen any sign of Duncan or fires was that he was using unauthorized sites waaaay in the backwoods.
This is what I thought when I read that the POS had circled the fire towers on the maps.....

[kk's mom]

Wow. I would not even want to be the investigators on this case:

"...a camcorder used by Duncan to film himself abusing Dylan and Shasta Groene during their weeks of captivity in the Lolo National Forest.

Sources say Duncan also used the camcorder to film what appear to be several attempts to kill the children."

Bye, bye, monster. No more mixing with the humans for you.

HOly crap. I can't believe this. This guy is the worst of the worst. Those poor children. This guys gotta go. I'm devastated. I'm crying my eyes out. I feel like I'm going to be sick.......what a freaking monster. Poor Dylan and poor Shasta.

[Shelayne]

<<snipped >>

Burning a body to ash without the help of a creamtory is incredibly difficult. And even then creamtories leave pieces of bone and teeth behind that must to ground up before being presented to the family in an urn.

I do know that it can be done; however. The Donald Blum case in Minnesota, in fact, had the remains of what was thought to be a missing young woman (God forgive me, I only remember her first name: Katie) in his firepit on his "vacation" property (which was a trailer in the middle of a few acres). The only thing left in the ashes were some tiny bone fragments and a couple of broken parts of teeth. They couldn't even get dental or DNA analysis from these, but determined they were human. Oh, by the way, this monster was also a released sex offender.

So, it can be done. And it sounds as if he did, at the very least, attempt to burn this baby's body.

I just have no words... :(

[DrElmo]

http://www.inlander.com/localnews/298391639739380.php

http://www.inlander.com/images/headings/news.gif (http://www.inlander.com/localnews/localnews.php)


Duncan Charged

by Kevin Taylor
Kootenai County prosecutors began laying their cards on the table Tuesday, documenting what evidence they believe ties a registered sex offender to three murders (the victims were all beaten to death with a hammer) and the abduction of two children.

One of those missing children, 9-year-old Dylan Groene, was later killed with a shotgun (a fourth murder charge is likely to be filed in federal court) and his body burned in a remote part of a Montana forest late last month.



This has got to be one of the saddest, most horrific cases I have ever read about. My heart breaks for those children and their family. What has this world come to when you're not even safe in your own home? It gives me the chills to think that these pervs think nothing of breaking into someone's home to steal a child, not to mention murder the family! This has happened too many times and has got to be stopped!!!! This is truly one of those times when I wish we could use cruel and unusual punishment to do away with this sorry excuse for a human being! A needle in the arm is too good for him. He deserves to suffer!

MOO

[gine]

He should be tortured, not merely a needle in his arm. He should be made to suffer. I thought at first, yeah, let the prison inmates take care of him, I've heard they don't like child molesters, but after seeing his jazzi page, I think he is actually looking forward to that! HE SHOULD BE TORTURED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am sick. Shasta is going to need a lot of support to overcome.

[newtv]

Is this accurate? I thought it was reported by Steve Groene that Shasta had asked him if heknew where Dylan was and if he was okay.
This is what her grandmother said..that she did not know dylan was dead until she was told by them. I would not put it past the evil one but the grandmother should have the truth.
If you read back on nancy grace's show transcripts, it is in there.

[Tom'sGirl]

This is what her grandmother said..that she did not know dylan was dead until she was told by them. I would not put it past the evil one but the grandmother should have the truth.
If you read back on nancy grace's show transcripts, it is in there.Or what Steve said July 11th
POST:

Dylan's and Shasta's father, Steve Groene, said Shasta did not know the fate of her brother until the family received confirmation over the weekend.

"She asked me last week in the hospital if I knew what had happened to Dylan," Groene said.


http://spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=79500 (http://<font%20color=)
(http://<font%20color=)

[newtv]

Or what Steve said July 11th
POST:

Dylan's and Shasta's father, Steve Groene, said Shasta did not know the fate of her brother until the family received confirmation over the weekend.

"She asked me last week in the hospital if I knew what had happened to Dylan," Groene said.


http://spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=79500 (http://<font%20color=)
(http://<font%20color=)
Yes- and I am glad they let her ask vs asking her if she saw any harm come to him..(if it gets any worse than what she did see)..They are protecting her and as the grandmother says-"we are just here to love her"..What a wonderful thing for her to understand..shasta needs only kindness, love, safety, consistency..she will heal with lots of this..though I know she is only human and cant be expected to be the same again (as she was before this evil enetered her life).

[Floh]

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/

From a new post on planethuff, he has info about the way in which Dylan was murdered. The new information that he received states that Dylan was burned to death while Shasta was forced to watch. I am speechless! I bawled my eyes out.

I totally understand why Shasta was to terrified to ask for help or say a word when she was in public with Duncan.

Huff has now changed his blog so as the initial part we read earlier is no longer appearing in the main blog. he gives his reasons why.

[Cowgirl]

Or what Steve said July 11th
POST:

Dylan's and Shasta's father, Steve Groene, said Shasta did not know the fate of her brother until the family received confirmation over the weekend.

"She asked me last week in the hospital if I knew what had happened to Dylan," Groene said.


http://spokesmanreview.com/local/story.asp?ID=79500 (http://<font%20color=/)
I think it might be very easy for us to misinterpret what a one line statement or question means. She might know exactly what happened to Dylan and she may have been asking her Dad if he "knew" in the context of, "Daddy, do you understand what happened to Dylan to make him die?" or she may not have known that he actually died even if she saw it. She may have blocked it out because it was just too much for her or she may have thought he could be fixed. She is just a little kid, after all. What a horror. It would almost be better if she cannot remember. I know, that probably isn't good in the long run, but how can this poor little girl ever get over this?

[Floh]

I think it might be very easy for us to misinterpret what a one line statement or question means. She might know exactly what happened to Dylan and she may have been asking her Dad if he "knew" in the context of, "Daddy, do you understand what happened to Dylan to make him die?" or she may not have known that he actually died even if she saw it. She may have blocked it out because it was just too much for her or she may have thought he could be fixed. She is just a little kid, after all. What a horror. It would almost be better if she cannot remember. I know, that probably isn't good in the long run, but how can this poor little girl ever get over this?

I agree, Cowgirl. i re-read it earlier as that: "do you understand what happened to Dylan?".

there are things about this remarkable young girl which make me realise she is in many ways older than her father and older than all of us now. :cry:

[Beyond Belief]

I really don't like the subject of cremation, but found an article, that talks about it a little bit. The article is on a man we love to hate, so it takes you away from now a little. This is only fyi and I don't want to discuss it. It personally make me feel quite ill. Maybe you can acquire some understanding of cremation.

http://www.coverups.com/hitler/everfound.htm

[newtv]

I agree, Cowgirl. i re-read it earlier as that: "do you understand what happened to Dylan?".

there are things about this remarkable young girl which make me realise she is in many ways older than her father and older than all of us now. :cry:
the grandmother made it clear-nancy asked her outright if she had witnessed the death of dylan-find the transcripts..the grandmother was unequivocal about it-dismissing that idea immediately.

[Floh]

Huff has now changed his blog so as the initial part we read earlier is no longer appearing in the main blog. he gives his reasons why.

Worth a re-post so as people can go back to the blog to note he's changed it from what we all read to get going on this thread.

go back to Planethuff, people.

and goodnight from this continent. :Zzzzz:

[joanofarc]

OMG...I just KNEW he wanted to film killing these kids....I wonder if he had a "market" already in cyberland for copies of his "snuff" films....I wish to god they could break his encryption code...can you just imagine what is contained in there??

I am so sad to read that at that one point when Dylan thought he was going to die that he flashed Shasta the I love you sign...this made Duncan stop for the time being ...I wonder why that gesture would stop him....??

Poor, poor Shasta....pray for her...I believe she blocked alot of the abuse including the fact that Dylan was dead from her mind...that is the ONLY way she could come out of this at least somewhat intact....IMO

[Cowgirl]

OMG...I just KNEW he wanted to film killing these kids....I wonder if he had a "market" already in cyberland for copies of his "snuff" films....I wish to god they could break his encryption code...can you just imagine what is contained in there??

I am so sad to read that at that one point when Dylan thought he was going to die that he flashed Shasta the I love you sign...this made Duncan stop for the time being ...I wonder why that gesture would stop him....??

Poor, poor Shasta....pray for her...I believe she blocked alot of the abuse including the fact that Dylan was dead from her mind...that is the ONLY way she could come out of this at least somewhat intact....IMORemember when you were reluctant to even suggest it, Joanofarc? Seems like there is no end to his depravity. Don't worry about any encryption code. I saw a guest on Fox the other night laughing about the idea that the FBI geeks could not break his code. This freak isn't as smart as he thinks he is. An eight year old girl outsmarted him.

[Hammerized]

I agree, Cowgirl. i re-read it earlier as that: "do you understand what happened to Dylan?". I did, too. I think she knew and this was a confusing bit of the story. There was an article I read, I'll look for it, about the capture of Duncan. When LE cuffed him, Shasta was asked "where is your brother?" and she allegedly replied he was "in heaven." :(

Oh, found it:
http://www.inlander.com/topstory/283708248876679.php
Then came the heartbreak — the first of many heartbreaking moments for police and residents in these last few days. Deahn, who had run to the table to be with Shasta as Duncan was cuffed and arrested, escorted the girl to the police car.

"Where is your brother?" an officer asked. "My brother is in heaven," Shasta replied.

[mic730]

I thought after following the Carr borthers trial in Wichitia I could handle and process this type of depraved individual and their acts. However, I am sitting here weeping.
Michelle

:furious:
omg, that is the most saddest thing. I can't imagine that shasta did not hear the last moments of her little brothers life. this man is the worst thing that ever breathed air, all those responsible for his release should pay the ultimate price, they should be fired from there jobs. what a bunch of real life losers. that is what is wrong with this nation, every state wants there own hand in dealing with these monsters, this should only be regulated only by the federal govt. and not let the local law makers make the decision as to how to deal with these monsters, duncan should face the same fate as his victims, I know this is not christian of me, but I will not offer any kind of prayer for him. he deserves to suffer what the lord has made for those that lead a reckless life. looking back on the thanksgiving video how depressed and sad that most of those family members looked, having a sex offender as a family member, I wonder how they feel now? he has destroyed so many people. if a jury puts him in jail for life they are losers too, he only deserves to be put on the hot seat and fried to a crisp. and then burned.

[Incognito]

Burning a body in a campfire is not unheard of. It happened right here in Minnesota by a released convicted sex offender very near to where Duncan was released from. 19 year old Katie Poirier was abducted by Sex Offender Donald Blum and later remains were found in his fire pit. Donald Blum confessed to killing her and later withdrew his confession.

http://www.findkatie.com/

[Liz]

Gracelin, thanks for bringing the article link to our attention. Actually I debated whether to thank you or not .... that article just sent me over the edge earlier ... the floodgates were opened. It had me bawling like a baby for a solid hour. It just struck me right where it hurts worst.

I'm glad I didn't go read the planethuff one. Could someone please possibly give a brief synopsis of his revised article. I simply can't bare any more of these gut and heart wrenching details. I don't to get all upset again over what some of you have described as possible speculation.

I do appreciate that you shared the inland link, Grace. Thanks.

[newtv]

Gracelin, thanks for bringing the article link to our attention. Actually I debated whether to thank you or not .... that article just sent me over the edge earlier ... the floodgates were opened. It had me bawling like a baby for a solid hour. It just struck me right where it hurts worst.

I'm glad I didn't go read the planethuff one. Could someone please possibly give a brief synopsis of his revised article. I simply can't bare any more of these gut and heart wrenching details. I don't to get all upset again over what some of you have described as possible speculation.

I do appreciate that you shared the inland link, Grace. Thanks.
awwwww- u r so sweet

[Liz]

awwwww- u r so sweet


:) thanks .... just when I thought I was emerging from my immersion ... that link, with the "I love you signing by Dylan".

I think I had subdued the tears, until then.

I thought I'd cried them all out over Jessica Lunsford. It just keeps getting worse, somehow, when you think it's not possible.

[kahskye]

http://www.inlander.com/localnews/298391639739380.php

http://www.inlander.com/images/headings/news.gif (http://www.inlander.com/localnews/localnews.php)


Duncan Charged

by Kevin Taylor
Kootenai County prosecutors began laying their cards on the table Tuesday, documenting what evidence they believe ties a registered sex offender to three murders (the victims were all beaten to death with a hammer) and the abduction of two children.

One of those missing children, 9-year-old Dylan Groene, was later killed with a shotgun (a fourth murder charge is likely to be filed in federal court) and his body burned in a remote part of a Montana forest late last month.


It's so sad because Shasta undoubtedly heard the shotgun blast. Maybe it's possible he set fire to him after they broke camp and Shasta didn't actually witness this. That's what I'd like to believe.

[Liz]

It's so sad because Shasta undoubtedly heard the shotgun blast. Maybe it's possible he set fire to him after they broke camp and Shasta didn't actually witness this. That's what I'd like to believe.


Are you suggesting that that POS would carelessly break all Smokey the Bear's campfire rules? (tic)

I keep having disgusting thoughts that this maggot might've served Shasta a meal, featuring Jeffrey Dahmer type specialty. Gag. Barf. :(

[SewingDeb]

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/

From a new post on planethuff, he has info about the way in which Dylan was murdered. The new information that he received states that Dylan was burned to death while Shasta was forced to watch. I am speechless! I bawled my eyes out.

I totally understand why Shasta was to terrified to ask for help or say a word when she was in public with Duncan.

I've read news articles today that say Dylan was shot with a shotgun, then his body was burned. I've also seen that Shasta did not witness his death. They do have Duncan's videocam with recordings of him abusing both children and several death attempts.

[mindi77]

This may have been said some where else but I can't seem to find out. Have they said how long Dylan was with him before he was murdered. This is such a horrible case and this man is so sick. I was wondering if LE has ever said how long he had him before he took his life. I hope Shasta gets all the love in the world.

[Tom'sGirl]

This may have been said some where else but I can't seem to find out. Have they said how long Dylan was with him before he was murdered. This is such a horrible case and this man is so sick. I was wondering if LE has ever said how long he had him before he took his life. I hope Shasta gets all the love in the world.
Not that I have heard or read mindi, but the camcorder would have the dates on there as to when Dylan's death occurred hopefully.

[Sassygerl]

This may have been said some where else but I can't seem to find out. Have they said how long Dylan was with him before he was murdered. This is such a horrible case and this man is so sick. I was wondering if LE has ever said how long he had him before he took his life. I hope Shasta gets all the love in the world.

I read somewhere that Shasta had mentioned Dylan was with them up until a week before Shasta was found :( This is all so sad and sickening :(

[Linda7NJ]

I think it might be very easy for us to misinterpret what a one line statement or question means. She might know exactly what happened to Dylan and she may have been asking her Dad if he "knew" in the context of, "Daddy, do you understand what happened to Dylan to make him die?" or she may not have known that he actually died even if she saw it. She may have blocked it out because it was just too much for her or she may have thought he could be fixed. She is just a little kid, after all. What a horror. It would almost be better if she cannot remember. I know, that probably isn't good in the long run, but how can this poor little girl ever get over this?
It's entirely possible for her to disassociate and not have recalled the event right away. It's really amazing she can recall anything considering the horror of it all!

[crocus]

It's entirely possible for her to disassociate and not have recalled the event right away. It's really amazing she can recall anything considering the horror of it all!


I agree...God bless and take care of Shasta....cradle her in a sea of caring and love.... that any child should have to go through and bear what she has felt and seen is freakin ungodly! Not of this earth as we know it day to day.

[Shelayne]

Burning a body in a campfire is not unheard of. It happened right here in Minnesota by a released convicted sex offender very near to where Duncan was released from. 19 year old Katie Poirier was abducted by Sex Offender Donald Blum and later remains were found in his fire pit. Donald Blum confessed to killing her and later withdrew his confession.

http://www.findkatie.com/

Thank you! Katie Poirier was her name. I had referred to her as just Katie. The victim of yet another "former" sex offender.... :mad: :banghead:

[LTUlegal]

Okay, I'm on page 2 and apologize for not getting through ALL of the posts, but NOWHERE did I read that Shasta was burned. (thank God)

The article I read which is actually a pretty good local newspaper and they dig deep into getting the details said that Dylan was burned in a campfire. Now, could he have been cremated? Probably not, but when someone is burned beyond recognition, they need to do some dna testing. Here's a link to the article. http://www.inlander.com/localnews/298391639739380.php

One of those missing children, 9-year-old Dylan Groene, was later killed with a shotgun (a fourth murder charge is likely to be filed in federal court) and his body burned in a remote part of a Montana forest late last month.
It also mentions Steve Huff and his blog regarding the timeline of Duncan and the possiblity of him killing "Beaner".


Steve Huff, who runs a Web site devoted to tracking criminals, thought the protest was odd, considering the girl lived 240 miles away. Digging a little deeper, Huff was able to piece together a chain — from Duncan's own online entries — that show he traveled from Fargo to Lake Superior for a diving trip in the timeframe when Warner disappeared. The most direct route would have gone through Chisholm.


All of this is horrible information and I still cannot fathom how Shasta was able to give such accurate detail, including, as I read in another article, the brand of hammer that Duncan used.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

:) thanks .... just when I thought I was emerging from my immersion ... that link, with the "I love you signing by Dylan".

I think I had subdued the tears, until then.

I thought I'd cried them all out over Jessica Lunsford. It just keeps getting worse, somehow, when you think it's not possible.


I hadn't read the link yet, was just going through the posts...and to see that quote about Dylan signing "I love you" to Shasta - oh man. I'm not going to read the article just yet.

You are so right - it seems like they're getting worse, somehow, when you think it's just not possible.

[joanofarc]

Remember when you were reluctant to even suggest it, Joanofarc? Seems like there is no end to his depravity. Don't worry about any encryption code. I saw a guest on Fox the other night laughing about the idea that the FBI geeks could not break his code. This freak isn't as smart as he thinks he is. An eight year old girl outsmarted him.Hi Cowgirl:

Yes, thought I was just adding more to the story but somehow had an inkling that he wanted to document everything....now, even more, I believe he left Shasta alive for this reason....

I think that LE will have to release this stuff a little at a time or they will have an all out "lynching" on their hands ....Mark Geragos....if you want to see a modern day mob after a criminal here is your chance.....this guy is "dead" meat if someone gets a hold of him......IMO

[kcksum]

Hi Cowgirl:

Yes, thought I was just adding more to the story but somehow had an inkling that he wanted to document everything....now, even more, I believe he left Shasta alive for this reason....

I think that LE will have to release this stuff a little at a time or they will have an all out "lynching" on their hands ....Mark Geragos....if you want to see a modern day mob after a criminal here is your chance.....this guy is "dead" meat if someone gets a hold of him......IMO

A beautiful example of that happened in my hometown once. A freak beat a beautiful little 4 yr old boy to death with a toilet seat lid. he also sodomized him so severely that his bowel evicerated.All while he was supposed to be babysitting him for his good for nothing mother.The case was quite sad because this little boy had grandparents who REALLY wanted custody of him, but some stupid judge gave him back to his mom.The grandparents were very well known in the community and had tried to fight very hard in the courts and the media for this little boy.So, when he turned up dead at the hands of amonster his own mother let into the home, the public was outraged.
This man was placed in the local jail awaiting his hearing. About 6 good ole boys who knew the grandfather got drunk and intentionally arrested. They new they would be placed in the same holding area(small town, one big room with bunks to make due for a county jail). To make a long story short this man incited a confrontation(yeah right) and the good ole boys put him in quite a lengthy coma, that eventually evolved into a permanent vegetable state. No one around my town shed a tear. It was much better justice than the justice afforded to his victim.

[joanofarc]

A beautiful example of that happened in my hometown once. A freak beat a beautiful little 4 yr old boy to death with a toilet seat lid. he also sodomized him so severely that his bowel evicerated.All while he was supposed to be babysitting him for his good for nothing mother.The case was quite sad because this little boy had grandparents who REALLY wanted custody of him, but some stupid judge gave him back to his mom.The grandparents were very well known in the community and had tried to fight very hard in the courts and the media for this little boy.So, when he turned up dead at the hands of amonster his own mother let into the home, the public was outraged.
This man was placed in the local jail awaiting his hearing. About 6 good ole boys who knew the grandfather got drunk and intentionally arrested. They new they would be placed in the same holding area(small town, one big room with bunks to make due for a county jail). To make a long story short this man incited a confrontation(yeah right) and the good ole boys put him in quite a lengthy coma, that eventually evolved into a permanent vegetable state. No one around my town shed a tear. It was much better justice than the justice afforded to his victim.I vote for this...only, a much slower form of torture is in order for Duncan...like Cowgirl says at least 7 LONG weeks of excruitiating pain....

I can't believe I have resorted to thinking like this....:silenced:

[Cowgirl]

This may have been said some where else but I can't seem to find out. Have they said how long Dylan was with him before he was murdered. This is such a horrible case and this man is so sick. I was wondering if LE has ever said how long he had him before he took his life. I hope Shasta gets all the love in the world.Mindi,

I have read too many articles to figure out which one had this piece of info so forgive me for not providing the link, but this time frame was of interest to me as well, so I did make a mental note. I believe it was the sheriff or one of his deputies that said based on the camcorder and other evidence, they believe that Dylan was alive until about a week before Shasta was rescued on July 2nd, so he survived at least five weeks of hell. It truly is amazing that Shasta is alive.

[less0305]

Mindi,

I have read too many articles to figure out which one had this piece of info so forgive me for not providing the link, but this time frame was of interest to me as well, so I did make a mental note. I believe it was the sheriff or one of his deputies that said based on the camcorder and other evidence, they believe that Dylan was alive until about a week before Shasta was rescued on July 2nd, so he survived at least five weeks of hell. It truly is amazing that Shasta is alive.

That is my memory of something I read also, Cowgirl

[Cowgirl]

It's entirely possible for her to disassociate and not have recalled the event right away. It's really amazing she can recall anything considering the horror of it all!I never weigh in on the psychological arguments because I have no idea how she should be handled, but I also think it would have been almost expected that she could block this out. The mind can do that when it just cannot handle what it is being asked to process. I read that she is now getting therapy visits three times per week. She did, however, get quite upset the other day when she was channel surfing and ran across the vision of this sicko POS on TV. I have no idea if that means anything or not and it does seem better that she seems so strong. I just hope that doesn't mean some delayed trauma for her, poor little thing. This is more than most adults could handle, much less an eight year old girl.

[Dara]

I think about that as well, Cowgirl. I'm so glad Shasta is getting therapy. I worry about how strong we've heard she's been for several reasons. One is that people can praise her for that (and how could you not!), creating a dynamic in which she feels she must remain strong (this is speculation, of course). I think it's amazing and wonderful that she is a strong little girl, but I hope being strong and being praised for her strength doesn't make her feel she always has to be. Professionals can prevent that from happening.

[Linda7NJ]

I never weigh in on the psychological arguments because I have no idea how she should be handled, but I also think it would have been almost expected that she could block this out. The mind can do that when it just cannot handle what it is being asked to process. I read that she is now getting therapy visits three times per week. She did, however, get quite upset the other day when she was channel surfing and ran across the vision of this sicko POS on TV. I have no idea if that means anything or not and it does seem better that she seems so strong. I just hope that doesn't mean some delayed trauma for her, poor little thing. This is more than most adults could handle, much less an eight year old girl.
I think her faith helps a great deal. It is very conforting for a child to believe with all her heart that her brother & other family members are with God. You know I am an atheist, but I for one and thrilled if her beliefs can help get her through this, even if I don't share them.

[PaperDoll]

I vote for this...only, a much slower form of torture is in order for Duncan...like Cowgirl says at least 7 LONG weeks of excruitiating pain....

I can't believe I have resorted to thinking like this....:silenced:

Me, too... I use to have a BIG bleeding heart for just about anyone.. NOT ANYMORE!!!..

[Cowgirl]

I think her faith helps a great deal. It is very conforting for a child to believe with all her heart that her brother & other family members are with God. You know I am an atheist, but I for one and thrilled if her beliefs can help get her through this, even if I don't share them.Yep, you are probably right, Linda. :laugh: I wouldn't tell her there isn't any Santa Claus right now either!

[SimonSays]

I think I've read that Duncan had a video camera when molesting / trying to molest those boys on the playground in MN (I have never read that the police had those tapes, it was reported by the boys - I'm sure Duncan destroyed them after realizing he would be identified by them) - and him having a video camera with Shasta & Dylan would fit his MO...

I have to agree about the camp fire not being able to completely disinegrate the body - it takes extremely high temperatures, and even a crematory has to use a pulverizing system after the cremation is finished. I have 1st hand knowledge of this from working in a funeral home.

[Hammerized]

I think I've read that Duncan had a video camera when molesting / trying to molest those boys on the playground in MN (I have never read that the police had those tapes, it was reported by the boys - I'm sure Duncan destroyed them after realizing he would be identified by them) - and him having a video camera with Shasta & Dylan would fit his MO...
Yep. The criminal complaint accuses Duncan of approaching a 7-year-old boy and his 9-year-old friend with a video camera on July 3 at a middle school playground. http://www.ndsuspectrum.com/news/n-0405-ndsustudent.htm

[Shadow205]

I don't think there is a question as to whether or not Dylan was burned. I believe it is established that he was burned to some degree or another. The question is was he "burned to death". I certainly hope not. Also, I don't think anywhere I have read, correct me if I am wrong, stated that there was nothing but ashes; however, it did state that his remains had to be identified and that he was cremated, now to what degree???? Either way, it is horrible, and I hope to my living God that this monster did not place that child in a fire, bound and gagged and have his sister watch him burn to death, although from what I have read about him, it wouldn't surprise me. (I also know from experience that gasoline and/or diesel fuel (diesel burns hotter and with less flame) that cow carcuses can be burnt to the size of medium gravel, although there is still hair/hide, and teeth, some larger pieces of bone.) Let's just hope that God sent his angels for Dylan quickly, either way. :)



Lets think of it like this, Dylan is safe in the arms of the Angels now.

http://www.wfu.edu/~matthetl/sunrise/angels/guard.jpg

[Incognito]

SimonSays I see your location as Mn. Do you remember the Katie Poirier case in Mn? Her body was burned in a fire pit by convicted sex offender Donald Blum. I believe the only thing found was a charred tooth/fragment.

[Maybe So]

SimonSays I see your location as Mn. Do you remember the Katie Poirier case in Mn? Her body was burned in a fire pit by convicted sex offender Donald Blum. I believe the only thing found was a charred tooth/fragment.

I remember that case. I thought that there was a brass button from her blue jeans in the fire pit? Either way, there could have been larger remains left of Katie after he burned her and he may have removed those remains and disposed of them in another way...buried them, bagged them up with trash etc. etc.

I remember he confessed, then retracted the confession and tried to convince people he was being framed....they had him on video tape taking her from her place of work for gosh sake.... I hope he is still rotting in prison somewhere.

[dragonfly]

I started looking back thru the Fifth Nail blogs because I remember reading about a storage "facility" or someplace JED used for storage. God I hope LE is all over that...

From the Fifth Nail, JED's Blog
Sunday, January 11, 2004



¶ 9:00 PM (http://web.archive.org/web/20050719071946/http://fifthnail.blogspot.com/2004/01/i-was-just-cleaning-up-and-packing-up.php)
I was just cleaning up and packing up some computer stuff in boxes to take to storage and I found a piece of paper that I had written down some information about a visit I got from police that I mentioned in a previous blog entry (http://web.archive.org/web/20050719071946/http://www.fifthnail.com/blog/2004_01_04_fifthnail_archive.php#10732026367078695 8).

This Storage location could house all the computer files and video tapes that he would not want LE to find it they were to search his apartment without notice.

[Incognito]

I thought the same thing about storage. Duncan would want to keep the things he treasured safe. I'm pretty sure that is one of the first things LE would be looking for.

[SimonSays]

Actually, I didn't live in MN when that happened... but a few months ago, my husband & I took a short weekend road trip, and passed by the station where she worked. (He was pretty sure it was the one) He told me about the case that day.... he was living here when it happened. So senseless and cruel... I cannot imagine what brings people to inflict so much harm on others. :(
I'm going to research the case today, I'm interested in knowing more about it.

SimonSays I see your location as Mn. Do you remember the Katie Poirier case in Mn? Her body was burned in a fire pit by convicted sex offender Donald Blum. I believe the only thing found was a charred tooth/fragment.

[Hammerized]

¶ 9:00 PM (http://web.archive.org/web/20050719071946/http://fifthnail.blogspot.com/2004/01/i-was-just-cleaning-up-and-packing-up.php)
I was just cleaning up and packing up some computer stuff in boxes to take to storage and I found a piece of paper that I had written down some information about a visit I got from police that I mentioned in a previous blog entry (http://web.archive.org/web/20050719071946/http://www.fifthnail.com/blog/2004_01_04_fifthnail_archive.php#10732026367078695 8).

This Storage location could house all the computer files and video tapes that he would not want LE to find it they were to search his apartment without notice. Dragonfly,
Duncan wrote on Jan 10, 2004 that he was boxing up his computer stuff to store in his employer's basement. That was the "storage" he was referring to in his blog. I wonder what else he's been storing there.

[kk's mom]

According to a link that Incognito posted today (8/3) @ 9:43am, the article describes that they found Dylan's "dismembered" and burned body. Did he dismember Dylan?
I am at a loss for words.

[Cowgirl]

According to a link that Incognito posted today (8/3) @ 9:43am, the article describes that they found Dylan's "dismembered" and burned body. Did he dismember Dylan?
I am at a loss for words.Unless he had some sort of sawing tool to do that, I would have to consider that Dylan's remains could have been scattered by the animals in the area. It is also possible that Duncan scattered the bones after burning the body in an effort to avoid identification. Or, monster that he is, he could have dismembered him alive, but I prefer not to think that. I think we may learn more when he is tried, either from him or from Shasta's statements.

[OneMADmomma]

All statments copied from "the Cellar" blogspot:

Take note: We know about the time he killed Dylan now---around June 25-26, 2005:
"About a week after Dylan's death, Duncan drove Shasta Groene to a brightly lit Denny's restaurant in Coeur d'Alene at about 2 o'clock in the morning of July 2, where he took a seat and waited calmly to be arrested."

Dylan killed with a shotgun
One of those missing children, 9-year-old Dylan Groene, was later killed with a shotgun (a fourth murder charge is likely to be filed in federal court) and his body burned in a remote part of a Montana forest late June.

Details regarding Dylan's remains

Our prayers go out to the Groene family....
-------------------------------------------
According to my extremely reliable sources (who did not wish to be identified), Duncan cremated Dylan's remains, painstakingly collected the ashes from the site, and disposed of them at a second site, in the nearby creek, where they would be dispersed and very difficult to find.
Someday we will be able to tell the story about the recovery and identification of these remains, which will give the credit to the FBI and local investigators that they deserve. Duncan obviously did not want the remains ever to be found, and the investigative team succeeded in spite of the very high odds stacked against them.
Out of respect for the Groene family, I have chosen not to reveal any other details about the cremation that were passed along to me. A published report merely said that law enforcement authorities believe that Dylan was cremated at the Twomile Creek campsite.
Given Duncan's scuba-diving history, I suspect that his M.O. may be cremation and disposal of the ashes in water, where they will be dispersed and more difficult to recover. If this is indeed his M.O., it may help direct the search for other victims. He also mentioned in a Jet Gazette (http://web.archive.org/web/20040506091349/http://myweb.cableone.net/jetd/) that he was going to start skydiving...another way to dispose of "evidence"?


I am at a loss for words...
I didn't know about the ashes in the water part. :eek: How did our FBI manage to find them...geesh.
Duncan will rot in the same hell he crawled out of.
Rest in peace, sweet, brave Dylan.

[GOLDHEARTNUMB]

If JEDIII burned the body of Dylan, then he wouldn't necessarily have to dismember the body if it was burned enough to simply be pulled apart or bones picked up. The skeletal bones will not usually stay together when the flesh, and other components that hold skeletal bones in place are decomposed and/or burned. I'm not saying he did or he didn't, that will eventually come to be known one day if Shasta or JEDIII talks about it. I'm simply saying it wouldn't be necessary to dismember a body if there is not flesh there to keep it in place.

I've picked up enough body parts to know, burned and decomposed from being a medic.

[Liz]

I am at a loss for words...
I didn't know about the ashes in the water part. :eek: How did our FBI manage to find them...geesh.
Duncan will rot in the same hell he crawled out of.
Rest in peace, sweet, brave Dylan.



That would have definitely been some incredible investigative work, OneMADmomma!

Touche' to Duncan rotting in hell!

Amen! To your thoughts about sweet Dylan!

[Openmind]

According to my extremely reliable sources (who did not wish to be identified), Duncan cremated Dylan's remains, painstakingly collected the ashes from the site, and disposed of them at a second site, in the nearby creek, where they would be dispersed and very difficult to find.
Someday we will be able to tell the story about the recovery and identification of these remains, which will give the credit to the FBI and local investigators that they deserve. Duncan obviously did not want the remains ever to be found, and the investigative team succeeded in spite of the very high odds stacked against them.

I am at a loss for words...
I didn't know about the ashes in the water part. :eek: How did our FBI manage to find them...geesh.
Duncan will rot in the same hell he crawled out of.
Rest in peace, sweet, brave Dylan.

Dylan was alive such a short time before Duncan went back to Couer D'Alene - a week or less. Poor baby. I know any remains of poor Dylan would have been a sad representation of the beautiful child he had been, but I have always thought it more tragedy for the Groene family to endure that they didn't have anything of Dylan to lay to rest. The cremation should have been a choice not a brutality done to Dylan. The lack of remains was more indignity done to him even after his life was so cruelly taken. I remember Steve's words about Dylan's "remains" -- Duncan can never be punished enough in this world for his crimes.

Beautiful words for a very brave little boy.

[concernedperson]

Dylan was alive such a short time before Duncan went back to Couer D'Alene - a week or less. Poor baby. I know any remains of poor Dylan would have been a sad representation of the beautiful child he had been, but I have always thought it more tragedy for the Groene family to endure that they didn't have anything of Dylan to lay to rest. The cremation should have been a choice not a brutality done to Dylan. The lack of remains was more indignity done to him even after his life was so cruelly taken. I remember Steve's words about Dylan's "remains" -- Duncan can never be punished enough in this world for his crimes.

Beautiful words for a very brave little boy.

It makes me scream for justice. This little boy has showed so much humanity in his short life that we wonder where it all comes from. I have heard other things about Dylan's demise. Ashes in the water would not make an identification...there is something else. Not to dwell on this but we have to realistic.

[kk's mom]

It makes me scream for justice. This little boy has showed so much humanity in his short life that we wonder where it all comes from. I have heard other things about Dylan's demise. Ashes in the water would not make an identification...there is something else. Not to dwell on this but we have to realistic.

I hope that Shasta didn't have to watch any of this. Knowing this guy and what a sick freak he is....I just can't even imagine. :(

[concernedperson]

I hope that Shasta didn't have to watch any of this. Knowing this guy and what a sick freak he is....I just can't even imagine. :(

I think she did know all of it. She has a long road to go but as we speak this she is to be upholed, as no other with human dignity and all hopes for the future.Bless her always and her spirit.

[Nore]

Oh what I wish they could do to this monster!! I have a theory also but wont post it,thinking of the possibility made me cry..Dylan is an Angel now who suffered too much.I wish they could just kill Duncan~nothing to "ease his dying"!!! He didn't ease his victims.Just shoot the scum B@&%^d watch him squirm.I could easily.Prayers for the family..

[Liz]

Oh what I wish they could do to this monster!! I have a theory also but wont post it,thinking of the possibility made me cry..Dylan is an Angel now who suffered too much.I wish they could just kill Duncan~nothing to "ease his dying"!!! He didn't ease his victims.Just shoot the scum B@&%^d watch him squirm.I could easily.Prayers for the family..



Death by firing squad is a viable option, in Idaho!

[Openmind]

Death by firing squad is a viable option, in Idaho!
This is true? How ever he, it will be merciful compared to what he did to all his vicitms.

Liz, I have sent a reply.

[Nore]

Death by firing squad is a viable option, in Idaho!
-----------------

Thanks Liz, I would like to see him shot right in his rotten face...

[Liz]

-----------------

Thanks Liz, I would like to see him shot right in his rotten face...

You're welcome!

I'd like to see Shasta's father and 2 surviving brothers offered the choice to fire three of the rifles used to shoot him with!

There's no punishment savage enough as retribution for the murdering, child-raping maggot that he is!

[Tom'sGirl]

You're welcome!

I'd like to see Shasta's father and 2 surviving brothers offered the choice to fire three of the rifles used to shoot him with!

There's no punishment savage enough as retribution for the murdering, child-raping maggot that he is!
Each state has their own laws/rules regarding cameras. Here's the link

http://www.rtnda.org/foi/scc.shtml (http://www.rtnda.org/foi/scc.shtml)

[Liz]

Snippets pertaining to this thread from 9/1 article.

Internet Sleuths offer to help with Dylan memorial

http://www.clarkforkchronicle.com/20050901/dylan-20050901.htm


>>> snipped >>>

Dylan, 9, was kidnapped from his home outside Coeur d'Alene May 16 and killed at a remote campsite up the Two Mile Creek drainage southwest of St. Regis.

>>> snipped >>>


Law enforcement authorities believe that Duncan cremated Dylan's remains in a pit at the camp, then placed them in this steep culvert, about eight-tenths of a mile away. Forest Service personnel used water to wash out the culvert. Bark and sawdust appeared to be spread over the road near the culvert, possibly to rehab the site. *

>>> continued at link >>>

[SimonSays]

Thank you for that very informative article Liz. :)


I can't even come up with words to express the hate I have for Duncan. :furious:

[close_enough]

Unless he had some sort of sawing tool to do that, I would have to consider that Dylan's remains could have been scattered by the animals in the area. It is also possible that Duncan scattered the bones after burning the body in an effort to avoid identification. Or, monster that he is, he could have dismembered him alive, but I prefer not to think that. I think we may learn more when he is tried, either from him or from Shasta's statements.

if i'm not mistaken, LE found 2 hand saws in his Jeep....i read this a little bit ago, from the pdf files that dragonfly posted on another thread...

[tired.old.hag]

if i'm not mistaken, LE found 2 hand saws in his Jeep....i read this a little bit ago, from the pdf files that dragonfly posted on another thread...
Plus the axe and the knife also mentioned in the documents. I looked up the knife by the brand name mentioned. They're wicked looking things. Horrible.

[dragonfly]

In a totally unrelated case the murder of Shannon Melendi, here in Ga. The sentencing will be this afternoon. This convicted sex offenderer was serving time in jail on an arsen conviction when he was finally brought up on murder charges and finally a trial for the abduction and murder of this 19 year old girl. Her body was never found.

What I find interesting is what Butch Hinton told jail house snitch Westmoreland..

"Hinton, a former butcher also allegedly told Westmoreland how to dispose of a body and that police would never find Melendi because she was "scattered in the wind."
"Neighbors told police they saw Hinton burning a fire on his property on March 27, 1994, the day after Melendi's disappearance."

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/dekalb/0905/19melendi.html

Poor Dylan Groene I fear would have suffered a similiar fate it we didn't find out from Shasta eye witness testimony and phyiscal evidence located at GPS co-ordinate campsites exactly what happened to Dylan.

I have speculated before that JED learned the "art of perfect body disposal" while he was incarserated. When he got out and started getting even he was already a honed criminal with killing techniques far beyond the 17 year old that went away to prison. This murder scene at the Groenes was the most horrific thing I remember hearing about and really can't imagine what kind of monster could be capable of this.

[JerseyGirl]

Liz, you originally posted this on the thread about Dylan's memorial service, (this is the video portion):

LifeTributes .NET Movie Viewer (http://videos.lifetributes.com/MediaViewer/MovieViewer.aspx?id=901)

I didn't want to talk about the horror of this crime on the thread devoted to Dylan's memory but I am once again almost at a loss for words after watching this.

These children could have been in the house sitting in front of the tv or playing video games. Instead, their mom gave them the better option of playing outside on a hot day in their bathing suits. I can't believe that something so innocent and fun could end up so horribly. All these little angels were doing was playing outside, being kids. And the devil happened to pass by and see them. I just have no words for the sadness and the tragedy. I keep trying to post something sensible and poignant but I just can't find the words.

Part of me wonders if and how much JED's plans would have been altered if Dylan and Shasta went with their dad that weekend. :( But I suppose it doesn't matter. When I see the photos of the kids enjoying each other, I have no idea how people can ever heal from something like this. I have no idea. :(

[nanandjim]

Liz, you originally posted this on the thread about Dylan's memorial service, (this is the video portion):

LifeTributes .NET Movie Viewer (http://videos.lifetributes.com/MediaViewer/MovieViewer.aspx?id=901)
...
Thanks for posting this again JG as I had not seen it before. What a beautiful tribute to Dylan as well as the other children and family. One can clearly see the love in this family. All I can say is it is so sad that there are evil people such as JED in this world. May the family rest in peace and may Shasta heal and go on to live a very happy life.

[JerseyGirl]

Thanks for posting this again JG as I had not seen it before. What a beautiful tribute to Dylan as well as the other children and family. One can clearly see the love in this family.You're welcome, nanandjim. It's almost unbearable to look at those photos. Especially the ones of Shasta and Dylan as we've heard that they were inseparable. :( The one of Steve with little Shasta and Dlyan in front of him is also exceptionally difficult emotionally to view. And the photos of Dylan as a newborn - all the hopes and dreams parents have for those tiny little beings on the day that they are born. No one ever could (or should have to) anticipate something like this. It makes me want to NEVER let go of my little one. I can't stand the level of sadness and pain associated with this case. It really is too much.

[Liz]

These children could have been in the house sitting in front of the tv or playing video games. Instead, their mom gave them the better option of playing outside on a hot day in their bathing suits. I can't believe that something so innocent and fun could end up so horribly. All these little angels were doing was playing outside, being kids. And the devil happened to pass by and see them. I just have no words for the sadness and the tragedy. I keep trying to post something sensible and poignant but I just can't find the words.

Part of me wonders if and how much JED's plans would have been altered if Dylan and Shasta went with their dad that weekend. :( But I suppose it doesn't matter. When I see the photos of the kids enjoying each other, I have no idea how people can ever heal from something like this. I have no idea. :(


I know, JerseyGirl ... I often find myself pondering about the 'what-ifs'.

Like ... what IF that Friday (ironically, the 13th!) had been like days just prior and after; and had been a cold, gloomy day and the children weren't outside playing in the water hose. Would he still have managed to somehow seek them out?

Or, what IF Brenda had granted Steve that spur of the moment visitation for the weekend? Would JED have been lurking and seen them picked up and followed them; perhaps leading to the demise of Steve and his mother-in-law, instead of Brenda, Mark and Slade?

Somehow, I wish that something could have occured that could have prevented this horrific tragedy, but unfortunately we can't turn back the hands of time.

All I can do is pray for the remaining family members, that they have the wherewithall to somehow hold it together; and that by some miracle Shasta is able to overcome the horror of it all and have some semblance of a good life in the future. She certainly seems to be one remarkable little girl!

[JerseyGirl]

Like ... what IF that Friday (ironically, the 13th!) had been like days just prior and after; and had been a cold, gloomy day and the children weren't outside playing in the water hose. Would he still have managed to somehow seek them out?He probably would have continued on down the highway, having never laid his eyes on them. :( And we could hope that he would have decided to turn himself in before spotting someone else's family (unlikely), or that perhaps he would have been killed in a car accident before getting much further.

Or, what IF Brenda had granted Steve that spur of the moment visitation for the weekend? Would JED have been lurking and seen them picked up and followed them; perhaps leading to the demise of Steve and his mother-in-law, instead of Brenda, Mark and Slade?Maybe he would have decided that it was just too difficult to pin down their routine? I suppose the what-ifs could drive us crazy. And you're right - we can't turn back the hands of time. :( :( :(

[nanandjim]

I vote for this...only, a much slower form of torture is in order for Duncan...like Cowgirl says at least 7 LONG weeks of excruitiating pain....

I can't believe I have resorted to thinking like this....:silenced:
I believe in an eye for an eye. All murderers should be put to death in the same fashion that they bestowed on their victims.

[nanandjim]

You're welcome, nanandjim. It's almost unbearable to look at those photos. Especially the ones of Shasta and Dylan as we've heard that they were inseparable. :( The one of Steve with little Shasta and Dlyan in front of him is also exceptionally difficult emotionally to view. And the photos of Dylan as a newborn - all the hopes and dreams parents have for those tiny little beings on the day that they are born. No one ever could (or should have to) anticipate something like this. It makes me want to NEVER let go of my little one. I can't stand the level of sadness and pain associated with this case. It really is too much.
I totally agree with your sentiments. It seems unbelieveable that there are actually monsters like Duncan in this world.

[dragonfly]

I finished reading and re-reading this information just posted at the Cellar blog site. It is news to me and I don't think we have posted or discuss these details here regarding the torture and video taping of the death and near death of Dylan Groene. Captain Fantastic refer to this information as "insiders information".

Please take a look at the lead article just posted at the Cellar blog site.
http://jetd63.blogspot.com/

[Mirielle]

Like the people at the Cellar, I have to wonder what would motivate Duncan to videotape what he did to Dylan and Shasta. Was it to harm society in the sense that anyone who sees the tapes (only LE?) or reads about them is sickened? Or was he sharing the tapes with others?

At this point I have no idea if Wacksman or Crary had any interest in pedophilia or sadistic sexual torture of children....my hunch is that they didn't. But why didn't Wacksman contact the FBI when Duncan called him? :furious: Was he so co-dependent, so sexually addicted to Duncan, that he couldn't "drop the dime" on him? Or was he so ashamed to be associated with him that he didn't make the call? What was the picture that Duncan sent him? If it was of the children, and Wacksman did not call LE, I hope that Wacksman suffers some kind of penalty.

I have a very close gay male friend and he is hurt and offended when people assume that being gay makes him or anyone else a pedophile...or a sexual sadist.

[concernedperson]

I finished reading and re-reading this information just posted at the Cellar blog site. It is news to me and I don't think we have posted or discuss these details here regarding the torture and video taping of the death and near death of Dylan Groene. Captain Fantastic refer to this information as "insiders information".

Please take a look at the lead article just posted at the Cellar blog site.
http://jetd63.blogspot.com/

Unfortunately, I knew of some of this for awhile. It sickens and disgusts me in so many ways. Duncan is the most evil ever put on this earth.....that just sounds too mild! I just don't have any other words for him.

[JerseyGirl]

Please take a look at the lead article just posted at the Cellar blog site.
http://jetd63.blogspot.com/Good God, there really aren't any words.

[Hammerized]

It is news to me and I don't think we have posted or discuss these details here regarding the torture and video taping of the death and near death of Dylan Groene. Hi Dragonfly,
This very thread contains some of those posts. ;)

Many regarding this article:
http://www.inlander.com/localnews/298391639739380.php

and a blog entry by Steve Huff, which I have heard about but didn't get to see before he set it back as a "draft." I hope he re-publishes it now that some of the details have been confirmed by LE.

Unfortunately, I knew of some of this for awhile. You did, didn't you? :(

[dragonfly]

Hammerized, these grisley details I had not heard before.

Joseph Duncan made movies of Dylan hanging by his neck from a rope or cord, from a crossbeam in that cabin in Lolo National forest.


Joseph Duncan filmed the ongoing hanging of little Dylan, the video shows Duncan bringing him to the brink of death- only to lift him up to regain consciousness and let him hang once more... Duncan getting off on this scene the whole time.


Joseph Duncan then choreographed a scene in which he forced the traumatized Shasta to further degrade and harm her half-dead brother by making her drag him by the rope around his neck- through the campfire.


Joseph Duncan then murdered Dylan with a shotgun, and used his hatchet on his little body. Joseph Duncan filmed himself forcing Shasta to place her beloved brother's body parts in a campfire.


Later, Joseph Duncan filmed Shasta being forced to pick her brother's charred body parts out of the cooled ashes of the campfire. They were then placed in a culvert, to be washed out- or so Duncan thought- with the rain.

[Openmind]

Unfortunately, I knew of some of this for awhile. It sickens and disgusts me in so many ways. Duncan is the most evil ever put on this earth.....that just sounds too mild! I just don't have any other words for him.
I thought I was ready for this, but I was wrong. No matter what I imagined, this is much, much worse. In light of what has been said by everyone, I can see this being what happened. Protecting Shasta from recounting the sexual assaults does even compare to having to relive this nightmare. It is so disturbing to even think about and these little children had to endure it. Duncan has no soul.

I understand why the law in these states have so aggressively pushed taking Duncan to trial. Brenda, Slade, and Mark demands justice, but Dylan and Shasta deserve to know these horrible acts will not go without public acknowledgment and Duncan will be punished for his heartless acts. Duncan managed to manipulate the system, slip through every safeguard, avoid every effort to rescue the children, and virtually under our noses commit these cruel heartless acts. God, it makes me ill.

[Becba]

There are no words to express how sickening this is.

For all of us who wondered where Duncan got his money, I think he was selling videos of the children he molested. He sure seems to have a ring of internet pediphile friends and be computer savy.

[Hammerized]

Hammerized, these grizzly details I had not heard before. [...] I know. :( Most hadn't.

However, the blog entry does not claim that WS posters were discussing those exact, grisly details!
Yet others, those who are interested, disgusted or just plain nosy enough to have a need to know more, those people who discover even a fraction more than what is reported in mainstream media, have been caught unprepared for the wholly malevolent, atrocious reality of "Uncle Jet."

Many who fell into this latter group proffered theories involving child pornography rings when recovered evidence details relating to video cameras and computer peripherals were made public shortly after his arrest in Coeur d'Alene Idaho. The forums at Websleuths (http://www.websleuths.com/) are an excellent example of this; it is one of the finer "True Crime" websites around. And Steve Huff's superb Dark Side blog (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/) delved into this as well, very early on. WS was referenced as just one example of such forums discussing those early rumors and theories. Posts in this thread and others did indeed discuss "torture" and "video taping" concerning Dylan (re: your query which I was addressing, "I don't think we have posted or discuss these details here regarding the torture and video taping of the death and near death of Dylan Groene.") in the terms addressed in the following paragraph:
Perhaps that objectivism was apparent to a few who seemingly had "insider information," because three people with no connection to each other recounted the same information to me when I contacted them. All three supplied more vivid and specific details than had been described (quite vaguely) in message board posts and blog entries- including this blog (http://jetd63.blogspot.com/2005/07/details-regarding-dylans-remains.html)- since Dylan's remains were located in Montana. There was plenty of speculation based upon "rumors" about these now-confirmed videos in many forums and newsgroups- including this one. Steve Huff's blog entry about information he received concerning at least one video was reverted to "draft" status. I did not get to read it, but from what I understand about that blog entry- via secondhand information- Steve was spot-on and his source DID give him accurate information.

It is news to me and I don't think we have posted or discuss these details here regarding the torture and video taping of the death and near death of Dylan Groene. Captain Fantastic refer to this information as "insiders information".(emphasis mine)

Dragonfly, please read it again. The posts here at WS were never "refer to" as "insiders information." The "few who seemingly had insider information" have no connection to WS, as far as any reader knows.