3 Boys(ages 5,6 and 11),Disappear while outside playing-Camden,New Jersey pt.2

[WindChime]

Continue on.. :-)

[Mygirlsadie]

N.J. Boys Alive for Hours During Search (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050719/ap_on_re_us/car_trunk_deaths_1)

[JerseyGirl]

N.J. Boys Alive for Hours During Search (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050719/ap_on_re_us/car_trunk_deaths_1)Thanks for the link. Here's a part of it:

... The autopsy report, which has not been released publicly, found that the boys died between 10:30 a.m. on June 23 and 2:30 a.m. on June 24, Villari said. That estimate was based on fluid and tissue samples and weather data, he said.

Villari told the newspaper that responsibility for the deaths is now "squarely on the shoulders of the police."

"I think the numbers speak for themselves," he said. "They were certainly alive when the police arrived and certainly well after the search started."

... The questions of when Anibal Cruz, Jesstin Pagan and Daniel Agosto died is crucial in the case, in part because of the possibility of lawsuits against officials.

So far, no legal complaints have been filed.

Villari said last month that he was hired by Anibal's mother, Elba Cruz, in part to see if police or anyone else may have been responsible for the boys' death. He said at the time that it was not clear whether she might sue.

************************************************** **********
If I'm not mistaken, Elba is one of the parents that was supposed to be watching the kids that day, was the owner/renter of the house where the dilapidated car was stored, and was also a part of the search that didn't find the boys. In fact, she was part of a search for THREE hours that didn't find the boys prior to even calling the police! This makes me so angry.

[mysteriew]

The mother of a New Jersey boy who suffocated with two friends in a car trunk is "numb" after learning the children were alive — possibly as long as 33 hours — as police bungled the search, her lawyer said yesterday.
Elba Nelly Cruz had just returned from Puerto Rico, where she buried her son Anibal, 11, when prosecutors told her that her boy and his friends were alive for at least 13 hours after climbing into a trunk.

"It's a tough thing to have to hear," Cruz's attorney, Peter Villari, told The Post. "She's emotionally overwhelmed."

Prosecutors in Camden gave Cruz the devastating news a day before releasing to the public autopsy details that said the boys died between 13 and 33 hours after they climbed into the trunk June 22.

Camden County Medical Examiner Paul J. Hoyer said he could not establish an exact time of death, but said there was enough information from the autopsies to determine a range.
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/50505.htm

[mysteriew]

At a minimum, Anibal "Juni" Cruz, 11; Daniel "Danny" Agosto, 6, and Jesstin "Manny" Pagan, 5, were still living as the police search began on the evening of June 22 and continued into the night, Camden County Medical Examiner Paul J. Hoyer has concluded.

By his estimate, the boys lived at least 10 hours into the police search.

Hoyer estimated that the boys died between 6:30 a.m. on June 23 and 2:30 a.m. on June 24, according to a statement released by the Camden County Prosecutor's Office.
http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/new_jersey/12173110.htm

THE COP whose bloodhound fruitlessly searched for three missing Camden boys over two days in June was not adequately trained, and using him was one of a series of mistakes authorities made in the case, sources have told the Daily News.

The boys' families did not search the car earlier because they knew the trunk was locked and the key was inside the house, said Peter Villari, an attorney who represents Cruz's mother, Elba. Villari believes that the latest autopsy findings vindicate the parents.

The autopsy results also raise the question of why no one heard any yells for help. A heavy rain the night the boys disappeared could have masked those sounds, experts said.

SEE LINK FOR ARTICLE. EDITED BY DP DUE TO COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.
http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/12174162.htm

[Jeana (DP)]

The mother of a New Jersey boy who suffocated with two friends in a car trunk is "numb" after learning the children were alive — possibly as long as 33 hours — as police bungled the search, her lawyer said yesterday.
http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/50505.htm


"Bungled the search"?????? The go to person is the adult(s) who should have been supervising these young boys. Moreover, what prevented any one of the adult members of those families from looking inside that vehicle? I certainly do not want to be in a position to place blame, but since [some of the] the caregivers don't seem to have any problems saying the boys would still be alive if the police looked here or did that, I have no problem saying that the boys would still be alive if their parents did their jobs and watched them while they were outside.

[Annagirl]

The parents didn't look in the trunk because "they knew the trunk was locked and the key was inside the house". The statement seems to indicate the thought crossed their minds, yet they dismissed it because they believed it to be locked. I would think that if I had child that was missing, I would look everywhere, no matter how remote the possibility they would be there. Trunk locked? Key in the house? So what? Open it up anyway. I would leave no stone unturned.

Like many here, I have to say much of the blame lies with the parents, first for not supervising these boys, and then not checking the trunk. The parents know their property like the back of their hand, and the police don't. The parents are the ones who had the ability to leave no stone unturned, while the police were just following procedure.

[Jeana (DP)]

The parents didn't look in the trunk because "they knew the trunk was locked and the key was inside the house". The statement seems to indicate the thought crossed their minds, yet they dismissed it because they believed it to be locked. I would think that if I had child that was missing, I would look everywhere, no matter how remote the possibility they would be there. Trunk locked? Key in the house? So what? Open it up anyway. I would leave no stone unturned.

Like many here, I have to say much of the blame lies with the parents, first for not supervising these boys, and then not checking the trunk. The parents know their property like the back of their hand, and the police don't. The parents are the ones who had the ability to leave no stone unturned, while the police were just following procedure.


Agreed!!! Had the parents been doing the right thing, they would have known where the boys were the whole time - and regardless - the car should have been locked. We all know that none of us are perfect and mistakes are made. So, to my way of thinking, the families have no right to blame the police department after their own negligence.

Noe, if one of the parents at the home was supposed to have been watching one of the other kids, a lawsuit (should they choose to go in that direction) is more understandable

[Beyond Belief]

I just can't see those kids crawling into that trunk. Kids are scared of the dark, who'd want to get in a cramped dark hot trunk.

[mysteriew]

I just can't see those kids crawling into that trunk. Kids are scared of the dark, who'd want to get in a cramped dark hot trunk.
Kids do some pretty weird things sometimes.

[JerseyGirl]

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/new_jersey/12173110.htm
Villari said a detective has told the Cruz family that it appeared that the children had entered the trunk by folding down the rear seat of the car, contrary to a police theory that they had opened the trunk and climbed in from the outside.

************************************************** **********
I guess that this theory helps the family to get off the hook for having that dilapidated old piece of junk on their property in the first place. ETA: It wasn't the fact that the p.o.s. trunk fell shut; the kids climbed in through the back seat now. Give me a break.

[JerseyGirl]

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/news/local/12174162.htm
"In my opinion, if an experienced bloodhound handler had been brought in, those boys would have been recovered alive," said one source close to the investigation.

Hmmm, would this "source" happen to be a family member? :rolleyes:

One boy's father found their bodies on June 24, more than two days after they vanished, when he opened the trunk to look for jumper cables.

I'm assuming it was only a potential crime scene as long as no one needed to look for jumper cables? :waitasec:

The boys' families did not search the car earlier because they knew the trunk was locked and the key was inside the house, said Peter Villari, an attorney who represents Cruz's mother, Elba. Villari believes that the latest autopsy findings vindicate the parents.

In another version, they didn't look in the trunk because they were told it was a potential crime scene. In yet another version, they didn't look because they assumed that the police already had. I guess we're trying on a variety of stories until we find one that fits?

Philadelphia Inquirer | 07/20/2005 | Boys alive during search, coroner says (http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/new_jersey/12173110.htm)

Meanwhile, City Council President Angel Fuentes announced yesterday that a fund for the families had raised more than $43,000 - including corporate donations, money from children, and checks from as far away as California. The money will be split equally among the three families.

Since the funerals were "donated", what exactly do they need this money for at this point? To pay the retainer for their attorneys? Maybe they should start sending the checks back explaining that they're looking for a larger payday compliments of the City of Camden's overworked, underpaid, under-budgeted police department. Let's not forget Toyota! After all, it's their fault that this dilapidated vehicle wasn't maintained and was parked on the family lawn while no one watched the children.

[JerseyGirl]

Like many here, I have to say much of the blame lies with the parents, first for not supervising these boys, and then not checking the trunk. The parents know their property like the back of their hand, and the police don't. The parents are the ones who had the ability to leave no stone unturned, while the police were just following procedure.And those concerned parents decided to not even contact LE for 3 hours!!! Had the children disappeared before? Were the families in DYFS' radar, and wanted to avoid the police involvement for some reason? Why in God's name would you let 3 hours pass before calling the authorities? Shouldn't that itself be considered negligent?

[JerseyGirl]

I just can't see those kids crawling into that trunk. Kids are scared of the dark, who'd want to get in a cramped dark hot trunk.Yet it happens frequently. :(

[Kathleen]

The autopsy results also raise the question of why no one heard any yells for help. A heavy rain the night the boys disappeared could have masked those sounds, experts said. (This was a quote from a post above).

Now, listen, folks..I went through Ivan last year and Dennis just came through here in Alabama, too. Yes, they were very loud at their worst, but I SWEAR I think I could have heard 3 scared, screaming and kicking little boys with shrill voices even over a Hurricane, let alone a heavy rain storm, if I was outside esp. near the car!!
If they lived for roughly 24 hours, why were they not kicking at the trunk or the back seat. Was it dark when they were reported missing? I still think there is something fishy about their silence in the car, delayed reporting, etc. Were they drugged with something?? did autopsy show signs of struggle as I would expect to see after someone had a fight with a locked car trunk!! This IS very wierd! Kathleen

[ewwwinteresting]

And those concerned parents decided to not even contact LE for 3 hours!!! Had the children disappeared before? Were the families in DYFS' radar, and wanted to avoid the police involvement for some reason? Why in God's name would you let 3 hours pass before calling the authorities? Shouldn't that itself be considered negligent?
Of course it is going to be argued now that it wasn't negligent since the boys were alive when LE was called! I noticed it said that the rain masked the boys calling out...was it raining for the 3 hours the families were looking for them? If it wasn't, why couldn't they hear them? I am now wondering if they actually looked for them for 3 hours. Maybe they discovered they were missing 2 1/2 - 3 hours after "babysitter" went into the house and doesn't want to admit she was gone that long?

[ewwwinteresting]

The autopsy results also raise the question of why no one heard any yells for help. A heavy rain the night the boys disappeared could have masked those sounds, experts said. (This was a quote from a post above).

Now, listen, folks..I went through Ivan last year and Dennis just came through here in Alabama, too. Yes, they were very loud at their worst, but I SWEAR I think I could have heard 3 scared, screaming and kicking little boys with shrill voices even over a Hurricane, let alone a heavy rain storm, if I was outside esp. near the car!!
If they lived for roughly 24 hours, why were they not kicking at the trunk or the back seat. Was it dark when they were reported missing? I still think there is something fishy about their silence in the car, delayed reporting, etc. Were they drugged with something?? did autopsy show signs of struggle as I would expect to see after someone had a fight with a locked car trunk!! This IS very wierd! Kathleen
I agree.

I'm wondering if they could have passed out fairly soon and then actually died hours later?

[JerseyGirl]

Maybe they discovered they were missing 2 1/2 - 3 hours after "babysitter" went into the house and doesn't want to admit she was gone that long?Very good point especially considering the numerous versions of the story we've heard. It was Anibal's mother that went in while Jesstin's mother remained outside. Then it was J's mother that went IN to talk to A's mother. Then it was that A's mother went inside to check on dinner while no one was outside with them. Additionally, as we've noted, the length of time that the boys were left alone varies with each telling of the story as well.

I felt so bad for these families, and a part of me still does. Their pain will never go away. But they are just making me SO angry with all of the talk of lawsuits and bungling police. :mad:

[Beyond Belief]

The bodies should have showed some sort of bruising on the hands or arms or feet from pounding on the interior of the trunk. If the hands weren't bruised I would really wonder. I have never been comfortable with this case. I would also like to know what caused the older boys disability.

[Beyond Belief]

Heraldo is going to talk about how the kids were missed during the search.

[Beyond Belief]

Why the trunk was not looked into.

How did the police dogs not pick up the scent? Phila reporter: Cherry Hill police officer did not train the dog to do a job like that. Camden cops in control and would not let other teams search. CH officer not trained properly to do search. Not confirmed.

Still alive until around 6 a.m. the next morning. Too much speculation. Anxiously awaiting official report to come out. Police did not call in canine unit until 14 hours into the search.
Not much news or updates. Everyone waiting for official report.

[Txmom]

If the car was locked, and the keys were in the house (as the parents have reported). There is NO WAY anyone can get into the trunk from the outside of the car without the key. How did the boys get into the trunk? Because the car wasnt locked, and the parent was away longer than she stated.

[Mabel]

If the car was locked, and the keys were in the house (as the parents have reported). There is NO WAY anyone can get into the trunk from the outside of the car without the key. How did the boys get into the trunk? Because the car wasnt locked, and the parent was away longer than she stated.

It is possible to get into some trunks by removing the back seat. My ex had to do it when I accidently locked all three sets of keys in my trunk one time. What I don't understand is why, if the boys were able to get into the trunk through the back seat, they couldn't get out the same way.

[JerseyGirl]

It is possible to get into some trunks by removing the back seat. My ex had to do it when I accidently locked all three sets of keys in my trunk one time. What I don't understand is why, if the boys were able to get into the trunk through the back seat, they couldn't get out the same way.My old Camry had clips on the back seat to lower them to enter the trunk. However, there was no clip in the trunk to put the seats down. So once the seats were pulled back up, (although I don't know how the boys did that since I don't know of a loop that you can use to pull them up from inside the trunk and their fingers would have been enough to prevent them from pulling it shut all of the way), you could not release the seats from inside the trunk.

In any case, the point was that the family claims that the car was locked, and that the keys were in the house. If the car was locked, the boys would not have been able to get into the car through the doors. They would have had to have entered through the trunk. Since LE believes that they entered through the back seats, the car could not possibly have been locked as the family has stated.

[ewwwinteresting]

My old Camry had clips on the back seat to lower them to enter the trunk. However, there was no clip in the trunk to put the seats down. So once the seats were pulled back up, (although I don't know how the boys did that since I don't know of a loop that you can use to pull them up from inside the trunk and their fingers would have been enough to prevent them from pulling it shut all of the way), you could not release the seats from inside the trunk.

In any case, the point was that the family claims that the car was locked, and that the keys were in the house. If the car was locked, the boys would not have been able to get into the car through the doors. They would have had to have entered through the trunk. Since LE believes that they entered through the back seats, the car could not possibly have been locked as the family has stated.
Exactly!! I wonder what other "statements" the family is making that contridict what really happened.

After listening to one of their attorneys, I am still mind-boggled that the family did not look into the car/trunk during those 3 hours of searching. Their attorney claimed that they asked LE about the car and LE claimed it had already been searched. If the car was locked and they knew they had the keys in the house and hadn't given the keys to LE, how could LE have searched it?

It doesn't make sense that they didn't look in their own car before calling LE and it doesn't add up that they believe LE searched a locked car without any keys!:waitasec:

[Txmom]

JerseyGirl-- Exactly. IMO, the owner (one of the parents?) of the camry was the negligent party here.

As I have stated earlier the last two camrys that we have owned were a 92 and 2000 and I could not see how anyone could have locked themselves in the trunk without another party slamming the trunk shut, or the back seat into position.

Mabel, in the last two camrys that we have owned, if you wanted to enter the trunk from the back seat, you had to push or pull a knob (cant remember which) and the seat would pop out of position. BUT, the seat would not go back into position until you slammed it back. You could not pull it back into position if you were in the trunk, there was nothing to hold onto.

If you entered the trunk from the outside of the car you could not close the trunk. Once the trunk was opened on my cars, you would have to slam it shut. It did not close on its own, and there was nothing to hold onto to close it if you were in the trunk.

When I locked the keys in the car, the cops had a VERY difficult time breaking into it, they told me that Toyotas were the hardest to get into and Ford was the easiest.

This was a very tragic accident and I think thats what it was--a tragic accident.

[mysteriew]

A committee's findings in the deaths of three young boys found in a car trunk last month will be delayed by at least a week until more reports come in, authorities said.

The review was to be finished Monday, and many hoped it would offer new insight as to how Anibal Cruz, 11, Daniel Agosto, 6, and Jesstin Pagan, 5, got into the trunk of a Toyota Camry on June 22 and why officers searched the car but never looked in the trunk.

Camden County Prosecutor Vincent P. Sarubbi said the panel has received most of the relevant police reports from officers who participated in the search, but a "small but significant" number of reports have not come in.

The prosecutor's office would not say what departments have yet to submit their reports. Sarubbi stressed the delay was not the result of any agency's unwillingness to cooperate, but rather of "internal policies for the writing, commander review and release of reports."

The report is expected to be completed by Aug. 1 and will be discussed with the boys' families before being released publicly.
http://www.courierpostonline.com/news/southjersey/m072305c.htm

Officials have delayed by a week the release of a report about a search for three missing Camden boys who died in a car trunk in the yard where they were last seen playing.

The three-member panel is waiting for some relevant police reports about the search, and expects to release its report to the boys' families on Aug. 1, instead of on Monday as had been planned. The announcement was made Friday by Camden County Prosecutor Vincent P. Sarubbi and Camden Police Chief Edwin J. Figueroa. The report is to be publicly released sometime after the families see it. http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/new_jersey/counties/camden_county/12207053.htm

[JerseyGirl]

As I have stated earlier the last two camrys that we have owned were a 92 and 2000 and I could not see how anyone could have locked themselves in the trunk without another party slamming the trunk shut, or the back seat into position. The back of our seats, (the trunk part), were lined with carpet. Considering that this car was a broken down P.O.S., maybe the carpet was hanging off, and the boys could grab it to pull the seat closed.

If you entered the trunk from the outside of the car you could not close the trunk. Once the trunk was opened on my cars, you would have to slam it shut. It did not close on its own, and there was nothing to hold onto to close it if you were in the trunk. But remember that the hydraulic mechanism on their trunk was apparently broken.

When I locked the keys in the car, the cops had a VERY difficult time breaking into it, they told me that Toyotas were the hardest to get into and Ford was the easiest.I had the same experience, Txmom, but the police could not get into mine. After 20 minutes or so, I had to call a locksmith to finally get it open. The locksmith told me what you mentioned above about the Camry's being so difficult; apparently there is some sort of cover over the lock mechanism inside of the door.

[JerseyGirl]

Their attorney claimed that they asked LE about the car and LE claimed it had already been searched. If the car was locked and they knew they had the keys in the house and hadn't given the keys to LE, how could LE have searched it?Very good observation! Here's hoping that LE's attorneys are picking this stuff apart as we speak.

[Beyond Belief]

CAMDEN, N.J. (AP) - Police failed to follow proper procedures as they searched for three missing boys later found dead, neglecting a national group's recommendations to immediately look in enclosed spaces such as car trunks, a report released Tuesday said. The report also faulted parents of the children for waiting three hours to call police, and for not disclosing during the massive search that one of the boys had previously played in the trunk of the car that was parked in the yard where they had been last seen.

The victims - Anibal Cruz, 11; Daniel Agosto, 6; and Jesstin Pagan, 5 - were found in the car's trunk after two days of fruitless searching after they vanished June 22 from the yard of the Cruz home. An autopsy concluded they were alive for hours while the search continued.

"There's enough blame to go around - the city, the police and the family," said Camden County Prosecutor Vincent P. Sarubbi.
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0805/248787.html

[JerseyGirl]

'We're the only ones who are still here' (http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060622/NEWS01/606220389/1006)

... "It happened just down the street," said David Agosto, Daniel's father. "I sit here and I can still see my son riding his bike, running."

"I still can't believe he's gone," added Iraida Agosto, Daniel's mother. "We're in denial."

... "We're the only ones who are still here," Iraida Agosto said. "All the other families left."

"We don't want to leave," David Agosto added. "It would be like leaving him behind."

... Iraida was one month pregnant when Daniel died. Her son, Nathaniel, is now three months old.

"When I had him, it brought back memories of the son I lost," she said.

... a grief counselor has organized a prayer vigil followed by a day of remembrance at Von Nieda Park on Saturday, the anniversary of the day the bodies of the three boys were found.

... City Council President Angel Fuentes will dedicate the park's newly installed playground to Danny, Juni and Manny...

"Use that day in my son's memory to get closer to your kids," David Agosto said. "I hold my kids tight every night and tell them that I love them."

[bykerladi]

The families are suing the City and the County for the death of the boys.


http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060622/NEWS01/606220390

[JerseyGirl]

The families are suing the City and the County for the death of the boys.

http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060622/NEWS01/606220390Actually, the Pagan family is expected to file within a few weeks, Ms. Cruz has already filed, and the Agostos don't seem as if they're necessarily going to file although they did take the intial steps required in case they should choose to sue later.

Unfortunately, it seems like Ms. Cruz, (and perhaps others), have seen this as an opportunity to get their hands on some money. The broken-down car that Ms. Cruz' son was known to play in was on Ms. Cruz' property. If nothing else, Ms. Cruz is equally responsible for what happened. IMO, she's got some nerve to sue - especially to sue an economically devastated city like Camden - named the most dangerous city in America because they don't have enough money to get the city "on track". Taking money from that city takes money from the residents of that city, and I feel that it's despicable. Lawsuits against cities should always be thoroughly thought-out, and not just a way to make a a quick buck.

Even Mr. Cruz feels that the mother of his deceased son should bear some responsibility in what happened. She was the one not watching her child, and she was the one that knew his habit of playing in the car. My support is 100% behind the police and the city when this thing comes to court.

ETA: "The complaint, filed by attorney Paul D. Brandes, has been transferred to U.S. District Court. The transfer is based in part on Brandes' claim of a civil rights violation." Seems they're pulling out all the stops. :rolleyes:

[bykerladi]

I agree 100%, JerseyGirl. Just like the girl and mother who are suing MySpace. I am sick of parents blaming everyone else for them not properly supervising their children. What happened to these boys was a tragedy. BUT as the parents of these children they should have (1) kept a better eye on them and (2) not had the darn car there in the first place!

[bykerladi]

Section of Park Named for Boys


http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060625/NEWS01/606250395

[SewingDeb]

'We're the only ones who are still here'

http://www.courierpostonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060622/NEWS01/606220389