NH & MA-Maura Murray Part 2-merged

[WindChime]

Continue on :-)

[Peabody]

I found this online article by Steve Huff to be very interesting and thought provoking.

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/...ces.html#000889 (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_true_crime_disappearances.html#000889)

What are your thoughts?





Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html/)

[Peabody]

was informed that that link was not working. please try this:


http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_true_crime_disappearances.html#000889

[Grassyknoll2]

Thanks for that site Peabody...as you say it is thought provoking...some of the same info in the NH/VT links in the other thread on WS.

[Peabody]

I am asking everyone to please send Steve Huff an email thanking him for the recent blog for Maura. http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_true_crime_disappearances.html#000889 (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_true_crime_disappearances.html#000889) It is such a struggle for the family to get any media attention for the case.

So, please express your appreciation to Steve at his email address steve.huff@gmail.com (steve.huff@gmail.com)

You can also comment on the blog at http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=DarksideSteve

Thanks to you all!


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[Hammerized]

I thanked him a couple days ago, Peabody. :) I was so happy to see he was writing about it, too.

I also sent him a bunch of links I had gathered on the CRV killer and the link to the state "map" that Boxerz made up for us several months back.

[gatetrekker44]

by Steve Huff-I was most impressed with his hitting the nail on the head re: the KNOWN deaths and the disappearances of Maura and Brainna. I am glad you forwarded the info from Boxerz tireless effort indicating not only the known homicides but also the disappearances. At this point, ANY info getting out there to the public can only be a positive, and since many folks use the internet as their main source of info(as opposed to TV,papers,etc) maybe his blog will bring some fresh lead or jog someone's memory in Maura's case. I did send him a big thanks-hope eveyone else does too! :clap: :clap: :clap:


Bring Maura home!

[misterallgood]

I'm thanking you all for everything I've read in this thread so far. I'm feeling bad for not being able to participate in websleuths discussions lately (been a member here for a bit, now!), but as you will see, I've been really busy.

I've begun a new blog, and this one is to be dedicated exclusively to entries discussing only the missing and unidentified -- (John or Jane Does).

This is in addition to my blog about crime, The Dark Side (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside).

The new blog is called Twilight Kingdom (http://www.planethuff.com/twilight_kingdom). If you go there the first entry that you will read as of July 25, '05, will explain the blog title. But I've cross-posted my entry from Dark Side about Maura Murray, Brianna, and possible CRV connectionsat Twilight Kingdom as well.

The URL is, for clarity's sake -- http://www.planethuff.com/twilight_kingdom

I normally don't directly request such things, but if folks could spread the link to the new blog around that would be great, and greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mr. A/Steve

[reb]

i also believe these 2 cases are too similar to not be related.
one possibility is: the fact that maura's drinking while driving, and brianna's involvement in drugs, sadly, is nothing more than a sign of the times. it is quite the norm, unfortunately, for college students to be heavy users of booze & drugs. i mean, of course we all know that... bit what i mean is that perhaps it has nothing to do with what happened to them.

anyway... i have a loose theory (that others have probably already thought of, no doubt)-- that there is a killer in that area, targeting young college girls, and perhaps he follows them and knows their schedules... maybe he was at the restaurant where brianna was working that night, and left when she did, trying to look insignificant, like just another customer.. and followed her down the road. and maybe what this person does is drive up alongside of the intended victim, scare them and push them off the road. (was there any damage to the DRIVER'S side of maura's & brianna's cars...??)
if someone was tipsy &/or tired... maybe they would have an overreaction, and swerve suddenly off the road, and lose control. maybe since no one claims to have seen this happen, maybe no one saw the car that pushed them off the road go down the road and turn around, and wait for the girls to get out of the car and start walking, when they would be most vulnerable... cold, disoriented, and upset... and if maura was injured, she would be likely needing help... i could hear a guy saying "oh no, WHAT happened? hey, i'm a lawyer, he could help you find out who pushed you off the road & prosecute them"... or "i work at the hospital, let me drive you there"... there's tons of things a guy could say to get a young woman into their car, out in the middle of nowhere... or perhaps they just used force, or a weapon.

in brianna's case, she could have backed up suddenly, in a state of momentary shock (and disorientation, since she was likely in the dark, perhaps buzzed, and frightened).. and hit the barn with the back of her car, in her rush to get back on the road... and then her car was REALLY stuck. maybe she *almost* got away.

all the puzzling "clues" about maura's mysterious behavior before the disappearance, could possibly be nothing more than the usual 20-something college-age daily drama. should i stay in school, should i leave?, etc.... and the phone call about her sister's fight with the bf could have been upsetting to her for some personal reason, but not related to the disappearance. the reasons for her being secretive & seeming upset before she vanished might have been related to her being involved with drugs, or owing lots of money for a drug debt (don't shoot me here, it's not outside the realm of possibility-- this is not meant to slander her, so my apologies if this offends anyone)-- also why did the college friend say they "didn't want to get her in trouble"...? what other illegal activities could she have been involved in.....?? hhmmm... let's see... could she have been having another relationship her bf didn't know about & wanted to keep it a secret, or what? i don't know, that's all pure speculation.

OK,,, now this is getting REALLY creepy..... i just read how brianna's car was found on the property of Myron and Harry Dutchburn who were beaten/robbed/murdered in 1986, which is an unsolved crime (and yet NO mention of it on vermont's unsolved homicides website!!! why?)
and the house has been vacant for 6 years.
could it be that brianna has arranged to meet someone to do a drug deal, or to repay a debt, and they killed her, but not before she backed up, trying to escape, and hit the barn?
WHY did it just happen to be found there? did that have any connection with the 1986 murder? or, did the killer have a connection, and drive brianna's car there, back it up, and abandon it?

could it be that this killer is a part of the drug world who befriends young college girls, sells pot to them (& whatever else), and then kills them for their debt, or for some other reason?

i wonder if the cops have fully interviewed ALL of maura & brianna's friends (especially their drug using friends) to see if there are any connections. but of course, any drug user is not going to give up that much info since they don't want to end up dead too.

other questions:
have the cops checked out all sex offenders/rapists on parole, etc.. in that area.. or should i say the entire states of vermont & NH, and any offenders with connections to those states...? (the duncan case shows that these demons will drive to any length to do their nasty deeds.)

also, have they checked out possible police reports of any other women being forced off the road, especially late at night?? it could have happened to other women, but the predator was unsuccessful, b/c the woman either got back on the road, b/c she didn't crash; or maybe the guy had to get back in his lane quick b/c another car was coming, (not only would he crash, but there would be a possible witness to him forcing her off the road)... perhaps if this happened to someone else, she could describe the car or a face.
maybe if it happened to someone else, they just brushed it off as some crazy driver, or road rage, and didn't think it was significant... and did not know they were being followed/targeted.
the police should be interviewing ANY people (esp. women) this has happened to for possible clues!

any thoughts.......?

[reb]

CORRECTION: Myron and Harry Dutchburn were NOT murdered, (my error!)... beaten & robbed but they survived. crime still unsolved though... weird...
another drug-related incident, maybe?

[Heron]

Steve's articles are so well organized and written... I've seen links to his stuff before, especially recently. Glad to see he wrote about Maura and Brianna. I emailed and "blogged" some props (my first blog attempt...)

peace, all

peace for Maura and family

[murraydwyer]

18 months later and still no answers...........thinking of Maura

[Gabby]

Prayers for Maura's family and friends....and for Maura

[Peabody]

We need God's help.



Thanks to all who keep Maura in their prayers.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html/)

[Kelly]

Maura's story, "The All American Girl" is now featured on the Project Jason Voice for the Missing blog.

It is a story about a young woman who had it all: good looks, intelligence, and athleticism, but yet was humble and loving; the girl next door, you might say. We'll hear how her disappearance has effected family and friends and about the frustrations in the ongoing search for her in this weekend series.

Be sure to help out the families of the missing by telling others about the blog. This is just another way we can reach out and let the faces of the missing be seen. We welcome appropriate website links. Other ideas are posting the blog link on other forums you frequent, and sending it out to your friends and family via email.

Thank you for helping us to help others.

Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski
President and Founder,
Project Jason
http://www.projectjason.org
Read our Voice for the Missing Blog
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/

[Kelly]

All 5 parts to Maura's story on the Project Jason-Voice for the Missing blog are now posted. For weekday and other readers who missed the weekend series, here are the links to each part of the story in order:

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/09/93005-all-american-girl-part-i.html

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100105-all-american-girl-part-ii.html

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100205-all-american-girl-part-iii.html

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100205-all-american-girl-part-iv.html

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100305-all-american-girl-conclusion.html

I would like to thank the Murray and the Rausch families for sharing Maura with me. I would also like to thank the many readers who support these families and who help them in many ways.

Many blessings,
Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski
President and Founder,
Project Jason
www.projectjason.org
Voice for the Missing
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/

[LillyRush]

You did a great job with the blog and it was nice to see her story documented like that. :)

[Gabby]

You did a great job with the blog and it was nice to see her story documented like that. :)


I agree Lilly, it was a beautifully written and caring post on the blog... Prayers for Maura and her family and loved ones.... Prayers to Kelly and her family and to Jason.... may both families soon find their loved ones returned to them.

[Kelly]

Thank you for remembering and caring. It helps us to know we and the one we love who is not with us is not forgotten.

Many blessings,
Kelly

[Peabody]

Thank you for remembering and caring. It helps us to know we and the one we love who is not with us is not forgotten.

Many blessings,
Kelly
Dear Kelly,

Because of you many more people will remember all of the missing.

It is my opinion that you have a God given talent for writing. He will surely bless you for using it to help others.


I usually cry when reading your stories of the missing. Your touching presentation of Maura caused me to cry a river.


Bring Maura Home!
www.MauraMurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[Kelly]

Peabody,

We need more people like you to care! I will continue to do what I can to ensure the missing are not forgotten.

God bless,
Kelly

[dannyodie]

someone help me here, in all that has been posted here, didn't someone post about a woman that saw a strange acting man nearby in a pick up truck? seems I read that but was there more to that? seems it was reported by a woman in a nearby town or township? I remember when the groene family thing happened that we were all working on the possibility that this could have been related to drug deals gone bad? until one websleuther mentioned that this could be a sexual preditor that did that, how right he was. I am just wondering myself if someone drove by the scene that is known to be violant against women? and picked her up to give her a ride to town and did other wise to her. the last person to have seen her alive was the school bus driver. maybe they should look his property over real good. or have they already done so? is there any pictures of the area that one can look at? and what is the exact name of the highway or street she was travelling? someone in the area if you could sometime, and know someone with a gps unit, ask them to travel to the location of the accident log the gps waypoints and then post here on websleuths, I can use that info on this sattelite program which was developed by nasa to look over the vast area and see if there is some possible places that could be looked into. the images that I will see of course would not be detailed enough to show a body on the ground, but does show with good clarity of landscapes and buildings and so on. having the exact gps waypoints will give me a exact starting point, without it, it will take much much longer to establish a location to begin with. if anyone can do that I would appreciate it.

[murraydwyer]

Hi,

There was a report of a suspicious pickup truck in the area reported by a woman. The initial reports also put a man smoking a cigarette in the car...though that has never been confirmed...and it just dropped from the newspaper articles

As to where the accident occured, it was on Route 112. The city gets real fudgey in that spot....Haverhill (Woodsville which is a Village of Haverhill) Bath (Swiftwater which is a village of Bath). Some searches put the bus drivers house in Bath and some in Woodsville. How close do you need the coordinates to be? I come up with approximately W71º 58.2 N44º 8.6.

I think I read the the GPS on Maura's phone wouldn't work because NH does not have whatever is needed in place...would regular GPS work? Anybody out there reading from NH have GPS??

[docwho3]

...the last person to have seen her alive was the school bus driver. maybe they should look his property over real good. or have they already done so?....
Sounds like a good idea. A bus driver would be someone who could troll for victems in a large area.

Her odd behavior, however, makes it appear that she was getting ready to disappear anyway. We are left wondering:
1.Did she just stage her own disappearance? It has happened with others before.
2.Did she plan to disappear but unfortunately met up with a killer who helped her disappear in a permenant way.-Perhaps a bus driver?
3. Did someone set her up in some way . . . perhaps by asking her help for several days?

[dannyodie]

Hi,

There was a report of a suspicious pickup truck in the area reported by a woman. The initial reports also put a man smoking a cigarette in the car...though that has never been confirmed...and it just dropped from the newspaper articles

As to where the accident occured, it was on Route 112. The city gets real fudgey in that spot....Haverhill (Woodsville which is a Village of Haverhill) Bath (Swiftwater which is a village of Bath). Some searches put the bus drivers house in Bath and some in Woodsville. How close do you need the coordinates to be? I come up with approximately W71º 58.2 N44º 8.6.

I think I read the the GPS on Maura's phone wouldn't work because NH does not have whatever is needed in place...would regular GPS work? Anybody out there reading from NH have GPS??
longitude and latitude readings are the more precise ones I am needing.

[Marisa714]

I don't think I remember reading about the man w/the cigarette...even though it's unconfirmed, are there more details to that?

[docwho3]

I have been mulling this one over in my mind. I wasn't going to get involved with it at first for several reasons, one of which is she seems to have wished to disappear & I have to respect that choice. But one W.S. has the name 'prayers for maura' and that stuck in my mind and so I mulled it over. I hope it ends up being a little help.

Normally when something sounds wild & hard to believe it usually means its a lie. Yes I know there are exceptions to that rule but in lack of other info I play the odds. The bus driver's story did not sound likely and it could have been just a way to cover his backside if someone had spotted him speaking to Maura. But what if he spoke the truth?

What about her pulling money out of bank? That sounds very much like the bride-with-cold-feet case.

So how could the bus driver be telling the truth & yet Maura have disappeared so easily and so fast? Well, if she wanted to disappear she might have enlisted the help of someone she knew in school or in town.

Let's say she speaks to friend & the plan is for friend to follow her to a pre arranged place & then Maura would just park the car and friend would arrive and pick her up and drop her off at her destination.

So she starts out on that day & friend goes to gas up his/her car or make other last minute arrangements but leaves town within 30 minutes (probably less) of Maura.

But Maura has a slight mishap on the road & now someone has seen her and this may alert people to her intended destination or at the very least will point people in her direction of travel. She probably had hoped for more time before the car was dicovered but it was not a serious enough problem for her to scrap the plan to disappear. She also doesn't want the cops to see her. Soon after the bus driver/witness leaves Maura's friend comes tooling up in his/her car & Maura gets in & they hurry off unseen.

How to confirm all this? If the right person talks to Maura's school acquaintances I think they will learn the truth since it has been so long.
Find Maura's friend/confidante & you have probably found the person who helped her disappear.

So did Maura's cold feet last this long? Possibly, since going back would entail much embarrassment & lots of explaining. Could friend have decided to kill her for the money she had withdrawn? Possibly.

Could she have just joined the army? Sure - I found some google entries of track& field times with her name mentioned & the word army next to it.
Could she have just went to another job that she had quietly set up ahead of time? Yes.

Wherever Maura is I am sure she needs all our prayers and I hope this night finds her safe & warm and at peace with her decisions.

[dannyodie]

I have been mulling this one over in my mind. I wasn't going to get involved with it at first for several reasons, one of which is she seems to have wished to disappear & I have to respect that choice. But one W.S. has the name 'prayers for maura' and that stuck in my mind and so I mulled it over. I hope it ends up being a little help.

Normally when something sounds wild & hard to believe it usually means its a lie. Yes I know there are exceptions to that rule but in lack of other info I play the odds. The bus driver's story did not sound likely and it could have been just a way to cover his backside if someone had spotted him speaking to Maura. But what if he spoke the truth?

What about her pulling money out of bank? That sounds very much like the bride-with-cold-feet case.

So how could the bus driver be telling the truth & yet Maura have disappeared so easily and so fast? Well, if she wanted to disappear she might have enlisted the help of someone she knew in school or in town.

Let's say she speaks to friend & the plan is for friend to follow her to a pre arranged place & then Maura would just park the car and friend would arrive and pick her up and drop her off at her destination.

So she starts out on that day & friend goes to gas up his/her car or make other last minute arrangements but leaves town within 30 minutes (probably less) of Maura.

But Maura has a slight mishap on the road & now someone has seen her and this may alert people to her intended destination or at the very least will point people in her direction of travel. She probably had hoped for more time before the car was dicovered but it was not a serious enough problem for her to scrap the plan to disappear. She also doesn't want the cops to see her. Soon after the bus driver/witness leaves Maura's friend comes tooling up in his/her car & Maura gets in & they hurry off unseen.

How to confirm all this? If the right person talks to Maura's school acquaintances I think they will learn the truth since it has been so long.
Find Maura's friend/confidante & you have probably found the person who helped her disappear.

So did Maura's cold feet last this long? Possibly, since going back would entail much embarrassment & lots of explaining. Could friend have decided to kill her for the money she had withdrawn? Possibly.

Could she have just joined the army? Sure - I found some google entries of track& field times with her name mentioned & the word army next to it.
Could she have just went to another job that she had quietly set up ahead of time? Yes.

Wherever Maura is I am sure she needs all our prayers and I hope this night finds her safe & warm and at peace with her decisions.
interesting post, here are a few known facts according to the reports. maura packed all her stuff from the dorm and told her boss and teacher that she was leaving for a week due to a death in the family, there was no death in the family, all of this took place after she had been talking to someone over the phone, a search of her computer indicated that she was looking up directions to somewhere in vermont. the night the car wreck happened it was 12 degress and I think it was snowing or had snowed, the accident happened approx. 100 ft or yards from the bus drivers home, he ask her if she was ok and that he would call the police, she didn't want him to do that so he went back to his home and reported it anyway, 10 or so minutes later the police show up and she is no where around. if I understood the report correctly all the things she packed were still inside the car. I have always suspected the bus driver from the start, he is the only known last person to physically see her alive, some report mentioned that the bus driver got on his school bus to finish paper work in 12 degree weather, that is really odd if that occured, maybe he offered her some refuge in the bus until someone could come and help her and maybe he caused harm to her on that bus? the man is married so I don't think he would have taken her inside. police indicate that the footprints in the snow indicated she had started walking up in the direction of the bus drivers house. the call he made to police would be a good ploy to cover his tracks, most people would do the right thing and call police of a car accident so that in it self would keep suspicion off of him. maybe the police should go back and ask him if he wouldn't mind them looking around on his property, even better ask him to take a polygraph test, he should at least be a person of interest until the police can prove otherwise.

[CyberLaw]

The bus driver was investigated and cleared, he is well known and respected in the neighbourhood, he phoned the cops because he was worried about Maura, they have investigated him and cleared him.

They again have training......

Maura was seen after the bus driver, some distance away avoiding any passing cars......

For this scene to be correct: Since the man was married, within the very short time, he would have had to a)abduct Maura without his wife knowing or lveaving any evidence... b) harm Maura without anyone or his wife knowing, seeing, or hearing or leaving any evidence.... c) bury Maura or put her in some other place where no one would see her or hear her(if not harmed) all within 10 minutes...........or less............while the Police were on their way, the Police that he called..........

The bus is used to transport people, do you not think that one of these people would notice something if the bus was involved......please.....

The ground is frozen solid.......he would be seen carrying something onto the bus by his wife how would anyone bury a person in solid frozen ground all within 10 minutes........the bus does not belong to him, but to the company he works for..........

He is a large man, I doubt even a very fit person could or would risk doing this while the POLICE are on the way..........and he knows they are on their way as he called them......

Would it not make "logic" to do this crime, cover your tracks, make sure all your "ducks" are in a row, get away with the crime, dispose of any evidence and then call the Police, you will control when they get there, , who knows if they will arrive in 2 minutes, or 10.......

It defies normal logic.......again.....and again.....and again..........


I again have no doubt that Maura left to start a new life on her own terms......no doubt whatsoever.......after all she is not a child, but an adult......who is free to make whatever adult choices she wants to with her own life......

Edited by Animal to remove speculation on family.

[Marisa714]

If I remember correctly, they aren't sure Maura ever UNPACKED her things after arriving, and I thought the sighting of Maura after the bus driver wasn't confirmed? I think that's what I remember at least. If I were went missing and I had just withdrawn most of money from the ATM and needed to get away to think for a bit, I would hope people would assume something happened to me. I can totally see where people would think she ranaway, and I hope she did! But if indeed Maura only planned on leaving for a little while to think b/c she was bothered/upset by something, I can see myself doing exactly what she did. If I'm contemplating things in my life or I'm upset about something, anything serious I NEVER tell people until after the fact. If it's something minor I will though. I'm just the type of person who really NEEDS to be alone to figure things out. Sorry this is so long, I hope this makes sense too! I wanted to add that I respect everybodys opinions, and I think it's awesome when someone posts his/her theory!

Marisa

[docwho3]

You also believe that Maura left for her own reasons. Ok. Having noted that . . . .I don't mean to be rude or to rain on anyones parade but I have some questions:

The bus driver was investigated and cleared, he is well known and respected in the neighbourhood, he phoned the cops because he was worried about Maura, they have investigated him and cleared him.
I am curious as you seem to be quoting from some surce of info which I have not yet seen. Care to elaborate on that source?

Maura was seen after the bus driver, some distance away avoiding any passing cars......This was confirmed by whom? More confirmed facts are always welcome.

For this scene to be correct: Since the man was married, within the very short time, he would have had to a)abduct Maura without his wife knowing or lveaving any evidence... b) harm Maura without anyone or his wife knowing, seeing, or hearing or leaving any evidence.... c) bury Maura or put her in some other place where no one would see her or hear her(if not harmed) all within 10 minutes...........or less............while the Police were on their way, the Police that he called..........
Without knowing your source of information I can only ask:
How do we know it was 'in a very short time?' We only have his evidence as to when he first saw her according to the skimpy website pages I have seen posted. If he was lying then quite a bit of time might have elapsed between him first seeing her & him calling police. Once we throw out his stated time line and assume he had more time than he let on he then has time to do whatever needed doing (unless other info proves different.) Perhaps it was only after he was done then he called the police.
Without his wife knowing. . . hmmm was she even home at that time on that day? And I have known of cases where the wife kept silent of her husband's misdeeds.

The bus is used to transport people, do you not think that one of these people would notice something if the bus was involved......please.....Cite source please. I have not yet read that the bus had any passengers on it at the time the driver allegedly saw Maura. If he was heading home it is conceivable that the bus was empty but I always prefer facts over speculation. (Note: I have 'heard' it said on this forum,although not by you, that the bus was a school bus but have not yet seen that confirmed either.)

how would anyone bury a person in solid frozen ground all within 10 minutesI have already mentioned that he may have had much more time than he first said. Frozen ground? I have read the temp was about 12 degrees (F?) that day but I have not confirmed that by weather records for the area. But I have not yet heard from anyone that the ground was frozen (not knowing the previous several days temps either) but even frozen ground is not a problem if he actually had more time than he let on in his version of events. There are lots of way the body could have been stored for later disposal and a cold temp actually aids in that endeavour.


In short, While I agree that Maura probably did disappear on purpose, I also think its fair to admit that the bus driver could have killed her. (unless someone can cite verifiable sources that say otherwise. New verifiable facts are always welcome.)

I can see it might have happened something like this:Maura plans to disappear for awhile to think things out but has mishap on road. Bus driver finds her and takes her somewhere -probably his own house or maybe a barn if he parks bus in a barn, has his way with her if he wants that and has her & possibly her cash (I never read that the cash was recovered.)

If it was snowing hard & a barn was involved I doubt wife would even have seen anything from 100 yards away and once in a barn her sight would be blocked. But it is also possible even without a barn that wife simply refused to turn her hubby in- either from love or fear or maybe both & that all assumes she was home that day at that time.

Anyway after the deed is done & the body stashed either in the barn (if there was one) or somewhere out of sight (at 12 degrees body might soon be frozen and not have normal decay odor) bus driver has the scene just as he wants the cops to find it so he calls the police. They show up & he gives them his rather implausible story of an almost magic disappearance.

I don't think that's what really happened but until you or someone else comes forth with verifiable sources to prove it didn't happen that way I can't rule it out in my own mind as a possibility.

Thx for your patience.

[Marisa714]

Welcome to Websleuths Docwho3!!!!! You have some interesting ideas! I've wondered before if the bus driver 'could' have had something to do with it....now that you put it together it seems very possible IMO. I personally don't trust LE working (or more like not working IMO) on Maura's case. I'm basing this on what I've read about them though.

[CyberLaw]

Docwho3, everything that I have said is a matter of public record, please do your own research, I don' have the time yet again to rehash old facts.

But in the dead of winter, in February, in New Hampshire, with snow on the ground, what are the odds that the ground is NOT frozen.

Please, I live in Canada.....

There is a timeline here, an elderly couple saw Maura after the bus driver safe and sound.

Please the concept of Maura and the bus driver has long been discounted by LE and intelligent people who are aware of all of the facts.......

I have a funny feeling that Maura did not want to finish school and become a nurse like her Mom, go to the same school as her Dad, and was "tired" of her relationship with "Big Bill", but the only way she could get out of this situation is to runaway from everything and everyone.......

From the Project Jason website:

This is very telling - There are times we feel guilty - and we play over and over so many things in our minds: if we ever caused you to feel insecure in our love or to doubt that we wanted you to be a part of our family, please forgive us

Edited by Animal to remove speculation about family.

[Marisa714]

Docwho3, everything that I have said is a matter of public record, please do your own research, I don' have the time yet again to rehash old facts.

But in the dead of winter, in February, in New Hampshire, with snow on the ground, what are the odds that the ground is NOT frozen.

Please, I live in Canada.....

There is a timeline here, an elderly couple saw Maura after the bus driver safe and sound.

Please the concept of Maura and the bus driver has long been discounted by LE and intelligent people who are aware of all of the facts.......

I have a funny feeling that Maura did not want to finish school and become a nurse like her Mom, go to the same school as her Dad, and was "tired" of her relationship with "Big Bill", but the only way she could get out of this situation is to runaway from everything and everyone.......


JW what makes you draw these conclusions about Maura's family....do you know her family? And what makes you so certain Maura wanted to end her relationship with Bill? I know you said it's a 'funny feeling', but is there any other reason besides a 'funny feeling' that you think that? Just curious...

[Peabody]

[QUOTE=CyberLaw]
<snip>
Why do they call her former boyfriend "Big Bill", that is odd to me.......>

QUOTE]

FYI to first time readers: I do not recall ever agreeing with any of your posts (Cyberlaw) regarding Maura's missing.

I follow Maura's case very closely and have absolutely no idea where you could come up with the idea that Maura's boyfriend should be called "former boyfriend" and/or that he is called "Big Bill". In addition, even if the boyfriend is called "Big Bill", I certainly don't find it odd that he might have a nickname.

I know that in newspaper articles, Maura's boyfriend has been referred to both as Billy" and as "Bill".

To my knowledge, the only tiime that "Big Bill" has ever been in print is in the letter from Sharon to Maura featured on Voice4theMissing. However, anyone who took the time to read all of Kelly's blog could not be confused or mistakenly assume "Big Bill" for "Billy" or "Bill", Maura's boyfriend.

Please check out the letter from Sharon to Maura in the blog on Voice4theMissing in which she refers to both "Big Bill" and "Billy" http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100305-all-american-girl-conclusion.html

While I do not agree with your assessment that Maura ran away, I so pray that you are correct.

Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

Docwho3, everything that I have said is a matter of public record, please do your own research, I don' have the time yet again to rehash old facts.

But in the dead of winter, in February, in New Hampshire, with snow on the ground, what are the odds that the ground is NOT frozen.

Please, I live in Canada.....

There is a timeline here, an elderly couple saw Maura after the bus driver safe and sound.

Please the concept of Maura and the bus driver has long been discounted by LE and intelligent people who are aware of all of the facts.......

I have a funny feeling that Maura did not want to finish school and become a nurse like her Mom, go to the same school as her Dad, and was "tired" of her relationship with "Big Bill", but the only way she could get out of this situation is to runaway from everything and everyone.......
From the Project Jason website:

This is very telling - There are times we feel guilty - and we play over and over so many things in our minds: if we ever caused you to feel insecure in our love or to doubt that we wanted you to be a part of our family, please forgive us
Ok - you make statements a if pronouncing the gospel but won't or can't cite sources to back up your statements & resort to snide remarks about not doing someone elses work for them. hmmmm That's your choice but most of us here try to supply info to help & not just snipe. And I am suposed to just take your word for everything? Trust that you know how to even do quality research? Trust that you would never fudge on facts just to win points when posting? I don't even know you other than as a personality on the web so why should I take your word about info? But I won't waste anymore time reading posts from someone who refuses to cite their sources because in effect they are just offering wild speculation without labeling it as such.

For the rest of you who may be curious:
My point in asking for sources is that anyone can put up a website and make any outrageous claim but that does not make the info correct. Therefor I want to see the info source myself and possibly see what more official internet resources confirm what I read on someones 'homepage'. I may even want to look at the coding of some websites. I may want to see if there is more info than was mentioned which might lead to other angles to investigate. But that's just my opinion and its only how I myself work.
I hope it doesn't get anyone elses nose out of joint.

[PrayersForMaura]

(February 9, 2004)
March,
April,
May - Maura turned 22,
June,
July,
August,
September,
October,
November,
December - Christmas,
January,
February - Missing one year,
March,
April,
May - Maura turned 23,
June,
July,
August,
September,
October



Maura's family has had to endure twenty (20) months of not knowing what happened to her.




SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING...PLEASE HELP THE MURRAY FAMILY FIND MAURA

can we go talk to the bus driver ourselves?

[Peabody]

Ok - you make statements a if pronouncing the gospel but won't or can't cite sources to back up your statements & resort to snide remarks about not doing someone elses work for them. hmmmm That's your choice but most of us here try to supply info to help & not just snipe. And I am suposed to just take your word for everything? Trust that you know how to even do quality research? Trust that you would never fudge on facts just to win points when posting? I don't even know you other than as a personality on the web so why should I take your word about info? But I won't waste anymore time reading posts from someone who refuses to cite their sources because in effect they are just offering wild speculation without labeling it as such.

For the rest of you who may be curious:
My point in asking for sources is that anyone can put up a website and make any outrageous claim but that does not make the info correct. Therefor I want to see the info source myself and possibly see what more official internet resources confirm what I read on someones 'homepage'. I may even want to look at the coding of some websites. I may want to see if there is more info than was mentioned which might lead to other angles to investigate. But that's just my opinion and its only how I myself work.
I hope it doesn't get anyone elses nose out of joint.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Hammerized]

Peabody, PrayersForMaura...

I came across an odd (very out of place for this part of NH!) execution-style murder in Haverhill, NH in my local paper recently, and something about it kept me interested.

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=3918456&nav=4QcS

http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/5057110/detail.html

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=61197

Perhaps the seemingly "random" nature of this execution, coupled with the location of the victim- Haverhill. Or maybe it was the victim's profession- building patios and stone walls... But something about it raised my hackles.

Did Thomas know something about Maura's disappearance? Did he discover a buried body while building a stone wall or patio?

Just some blue-sky thoughts here. His execution is unexplained so far, and there has been no link to any criminal involvement on his part released so far.

Small towns in NH are, well, small towns. It is indeed rare for murders to occur, let alone executions. And so I wonder- did Tom know something about Maura?

Just an idea, something to keep an eye on.

[Kelly]

This is very telling - There are times we feel guilty - and we play over and over so many things in our minds: if we ever caused you to feel insecure in our love or to doubt that we wanted you to be a part of our family, please forgive us

It is common for a family with a missing loved one to make public statements of hope. No one knows for sure, in most cases, if their loved one is dead or alive. I have made many such public statements in case my son could read what I said, such as: "No matter what, we forgive you. We just want you to come home."

Does that mean that there is neccesarily something to forgive, some hidden secret act? No, it is simply a statement made to cover the bases. It is also normal for families of the missing to feel guilt and question anything they may have said or done to cause the loved one's disappearance. This guilt is typically present regardless of the type of disappearance.

"Big Bill" refers to Sharon's husband, Bill, in the story on my blog. Maura's fiancee is always referred to as "Billy".

This is just a friendly reminder that this is the support forum, rather than the discussion forum. The types of postings seen here in the past 24 hours should go on the Missing Discussion Forum. This forum is to be a "safe haven" for families of the missing, where if they should be reading, they do not see themselves or their missing loved ones torn about or written about as if they were just a theory. It is hurtful to those left behind. It's painful enough as it is without seeing those postings. If you need this clarified, I'm sure a moderator would be happy to do that. Most posters write in a respectful manner, but some do not. Thank you.

Kelly

[docwho3]

Peabody, PrayersForMaura...

I came across an odd (very out of place for this part of NH!) execution-style murder in Haverhill, NH in my local paper recently, and something about it kept me interested.

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=3918456&nav=4QcS

http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/5057110/detail.html

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=61197

Perhaps the seemingly "random" nature of this execution, coupled with the location of the victim- Haverhill. Or maybe it was the victim's profession- building patios and stone walls... But something about it raised my hackles.

Did Thomas know something about Maura's disappearance? Did he discover a buried body while building a stone wall or patio?

Just some blue-sky thoughts here. His execution is unexplained so far, and there has been no link to any criminal involvement on his part released so far.

Small towns in NH are, well, small towns. It is indeed rare for murders to occur, let alone executions. And so I wonder- did Tom know something about Maura?

Just an idea, something to keep an eye on.
Hmm interesting thought. Plz let us all know if anything more turns up to indicate that. In the meantime I noticed this on the Union Leader website news article (from the link in your post) about it "Up until about eight years ago, Phil and Tom Conrad had a logging business, until Tom Conrad decided it was time for a change and went to work at Hilltop Quarry in neighboring Piermont." Now I wonder did he leave due to a disagreement with brother? Was the logging business in difficulty? The news article of same site also said "Tom Conrad had been married and divorced more than 15 years ago. Although he never had children of his own,. . . " so who would get his life insurance? And what about having trouble with possible coworkers at the quarry?

This whole thing seems a little odd so far but thats probably because I know so little yet. He lived with his mother? "Police arrived to find Conrad dead on the ground from multiple gunshot wounds after they received a 911 emergency call from a female resident at the home about 9:24 p.m. Conrad lived with his mother, Betty, the librarian in Pike, a village of Haverhill."

So who called the cops? the mom? or the female resident? I mean since they said he lived with his mother why not say the call came from his mother? Why say that call came from a female resident unless they are hinting that he also has a girlfriend living there too? I don't know the answers to these questions but you can try emailing one of the reporters that wrote those articles such as the channel 3 person Nicole Oliverio channel 3 news wcax-TV whose email is listed as oliverio@wcax.com
or LORNA COLQUHOUN of the union leader. (There is a contact link on their webpage.)

[docwho3]

2nd Edited to add:This post and several others have been moved to this Missing/located category so that we may carry on our case discussion in the appropriate category. Thank you to the moderators.

. . . .This is just a friendly reminder that this is the support forum, rather than the discussion forum. The types of postings seen here in the past 24 hours should go on the Missing Discussion Forum. This forum is to be a "safe haven" for families of the missing, where if they should be reading, they do not see themselves or their missing loved ones torn about or written about as if they were just a theory. It is hurtful to those left behind. It's painful enough as it is without seeing those postings. If you need this clarified, I'm sure a moderator would be happy to do that. Most posters write in a respectful manner, but some do not. Thank you.

KellyI apologize to you as I think I misunderstood the actual purpose of this thread even though it is labeled correctly. I thought that support might also mean discussing information to help find the missing as well as just being a comforting source. Edited to add:I think the title "Missing persons Information and Support" is what threw me.
I have seen similar style conversations in support threads but that is no real excuse. My mistake.

[Kelly]

Hi Doc,

No need to apologize, really. I can't speak for members of the Murray family in regards to their feelings about case discussion on this thread, but I can speak for many other families who are hurt and appalled at what they see written about about missing persons and their families on posting boards. (not just their own)

If this particular board is to be a safe haven for families to read and not see any material that they may be sensitive to, then it needs to remain as such. Moderators, please correct me if I am wrong.

I don't recall seeing anything disrespectful in your posts. Thank you for that.

Kelly

[TheClueMan]

Cyberlaw....
For someone who hates to rehash things..."YOU DO A GOOD JOB"...So if it is
such a pain and you have no time for this "WELL DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ON OUR ACCOUNT" ....

OH and I feel as though you know so much about MAURA....How could this be unless you are "HER"...so lets stick to the facts....and even you, such a wise creature could not know these things....So please state the FACTS and not your ideas and conclusions on "WHO YOU THINK MAURA IS"....Spend your words on more resourceful and useful information that will help this case "NOT HINDER IT".....

Thank You and Have A Nice Day...

"THE CLUE MAN"

[Gabby]

It is common for a family with a missing loved one to make public statements of hope. No one knows for sure, in most cases, if their loved one is dead or alive. I have made many such public statements in case my son could read what I said, such as: "No matter what, we forgive you. We just want you to come home."

Does that mean that there is neccesarily something to forgive, some hidden secret act? No, it is simply a statement made to cover the bases. It is also normal for families of the missing to feel guilt and question anything they may have said or done to cause the loved one's disappearance. This guilt is typically present regardless of the type of disappearance.

"Big Bill" refers to Sharon's husband, Bill, in the story on my blog. Maura's fiancee is always referred to as "Billy".

This is just a friendly reminder that this is the support forum, rather than the discussion forum. The types of postings seen here in the past 24 hours should go on the Missing Discussion Forum. This forum is to be a "safe haven" for families of the missing, where if they should be reading, they do not see themselves or their missing loved ones torn about or written about as if they were just a theory. It is hurtful to those left behind. It's painful enough as it is without seeing those postings. If you need this clarified, I'm sure a moderator would be happy to do that. Most posters write in a respectful manner, but some do not. Thank you.

Kelly



thank you for pointing this out Kelly... my temper gets the better of me when I read things that disrespect the missing and their families and friends.... therefore I usually back out of the forum.... Tact is not one of my strong points.

There but by GOD's Grace go I... my son could have gone or could go missing, or my grandson, my nephew, my brother..... I love you and admire you so much, but I hope I never have to walk in your shoes....

Prayers to you, your family, and all the families of the the missing, and especially heartfelt prayers for those who are missing... Your family wants you home...they love you, Please if you are able, come home or at the very least let them know you are alive and safe.

God Bless YOU ALL.

[docwho3]

Ok - kelly, Am I finally at the right thread for case discussion of Maura?
The thread category says so but I am trying to check & be careful.

[Kelly]

Yes, you are. Carry on, Sleuthers.

[Animal04216]

Just a reminder to please abide by TOS. Some posts are bordering on attacking the poster. I know that these cases can really get us all upset, but please eveyone lets agree to disagree! Thank you all for making Websleuths a great place to post!

Animal

[docwho3]

"As Maura's 1996 black Saturn rounded a sharp left curve just past The Weathered Barn on Route 112 at about 7:30 p.m., she lost control of the car and it went off the right side of the highway, striking a tree."
Source:http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/afa10e18b
The article was written by:Gary Lindsley The email addy was publically listed on their contact page.
lindsleyg@caledonian-record.com

I had not yet read that article page when I hypothesized the possibility of a barn nearby. I still don't have that theory that included the possibility of a barn as my number one choice of events but it could well become number one.

I am now rethinking and revising that possible version of events in my mind.
If all we have is the car with stuff in it and one person's word for things and that person was by his own account the last person to admit seeing her alive then I have to at least give careful thought to how things could have happened and still fit all the facts as reported & have the police search come up empty.

I do have to also consider that the police & higher officials seem to be hinting that they have information that she is ok and wants to stay gone. But is that true? Did she perhaps leave them a note or call them? Or are they jumping to conclusions because she pulled money out of account in bank.

In reference to the state police delay for nine months in contacting the owner of a condominium in Bartlett, to whom Maura had placed one of her last two cell phone calls, he said, "I am not going to comment on specific parts of the investigation." - Who did she call in Bartlet?

Even though its still only my number 2 theory I may post another separate post on it. I admit that I am speculating - more like thinking out loud. At least I am citing the websources that I am basing that speculation on so others may investigate & perhaps come to better info. After all. . . . . . the whole purpose is to find out what happened to Maura, as much as is possible and not try to make me look brighter than I am. *smile*

And if we actually found out what happened to her and confirmed it? Personally I think the info should go to Law Enforcement for safety reasons.

http://www.mauramurray.com/
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/afa10e18b
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/02/27/footprints_in_the_snow/

I got these links from one of the early posts but I forget whose post it was.

[Peabody]

"As Maura's 1996 black Saturn rounded a sharp left curve just past The Weathered Barn on Route 112 at about 7:30 p.m., she lost control of the car and it went off the right side of the highway, striking a tree."
Source:http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/afa10e18b
The article was written by:Gary Lindsley The email addy was publically listed on their contact page.
lindsleyg@caledonian-record.com

I had not yet read that article page when I hypothesized the possibility of a barn nearby. I still don't have that theory that included the possibility of a barn as my number one choice of events but it could well become number one.

I am now rethinking and revising that possible version of events in my mind.
If all we have is the car with stuff in it and one person's word for things and that person was by his own account the last person to admit seeing her alive then I have to at least give careful thought to how things could have happened and still fit all the facts as reported & have the police search come up empty.

I do have to also consider that the police & higher officials seem to be hinting that they have information that she is ok and wants to stay gone. But is that true? Did she perhaps leave them a note or call them? Or are they jumping to conclusions because she pulled money out of account in bank..
There are no links to support the "private information" that I am sharing. I happen to know someone very close to Maura. I can tell you that from the time Maura's family arrived in Haverhill on Feb 10 2005 through June 2005, LE privately told the family that Maura had plans on commiting suicide. They told her family that they based this theory on the fact that family and friends did not know of her plans for the trip to NH; the mention of "a death in the family" excuse to her professors and employers, and the finding of aspirin, tylenol pm and alcohol in her car.


Although I presently do not have the news links (and unfortunately will not have the time to locate them for you for approx 2 weeks, but I promise they will be provided), Lt. Scarinza, the head of the NH SP Unit in charge of the case, was quoted in print and went on tv wherein he repeatedly inferred that Maura was suicidal and had left a not for her boyfriend. If you check the archives of the Caledonian, you should find an article where Sharon, the mother of Maura's boyfriend, called LE "liars" over this incident.

It has been reported (and I know for a fact) that the boyfriend went to Maura's dorm at the invitation of UMass Police before NH SP. He says that there was no note to him and when the Scarinza's remarks were made public, both Rausches and Murrays spent weeks attempting to get Scarinza to release such a letter to them or to make a public retraction. After raising quite a stink, *privately* the family was told that Scarinza meant to say there was a letter from the boyfriend in the dorm room. The boyfriend admits there were numerous letters/notes from him. Maura had saved all of their correspondence. He insists there was nothing to indicate that she was running away or suicidal.

In July of 2005, the one and only very thorough search by NH LE was made for Maura and/or any of her items. The search was a one square mile area around the scene of the car accident. There is a story in the Caledonian Archives regarding this search. For reasons unknown to the family, July 2005 was the time that NH LE called in the Major Crimes unit and began to take seriously that Maura was not missing of her own accord. There are newstories mentioning the involvement of Major Crimes. The press conference after this search has been their final release of statements in the case. When Maura's Father, Fred Murray, was featured on Montel, LE refused to comment on the case. I recall this being stated on the Montel Show as well as being told by my source that knows Maura. Patricia Viola's husband (Pat is also a missing person) is preparing a link to the Montel Show featuring Maura. I will post it here on Maura's discussion board once it is linked to Maura's site www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/) so that you may know for certain that LE will not comment on the case..



"In reference to the state police delay for nine months in contacting the owner of a condominium in Bartlett, to whom Maura had placed one of her last two cell phone calls, he said, "I am not going to comment on specific parts of the investigation." - Who did she call in Bartlet..
Marua called a lady that has an online advertisement for a rental condo. This condo unit is the same one in which Maura has stayed with her family on several occasions. However, these particular owners had not previously rented to the Murrays, nor did they know Maura.

Although, the Caledonian Record stories are an incomplete record of Maura's case, they are the most inclusive and are available on line. The link to the archives pertaining to Maura are http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/archives/index.php?search_it=yes&sm=02&sd=01&sy=2004&em=10&ed=12&ey=2005&inputval=Maura+Murray&usage=Exactly&go=SEARCH%21 Be sure to read both Top News and Local News stories.


"Even though its still only my number 2 theory I may post another separate post on it. I admit that I am speculating - more like thinking out loud. At least I am citing the websources that I am basing that speculation on so others may investigate & perhaps come to better info. After all. . . . . . the whole purpose is to find out what happened to Maura, as much as is possible and not try to make me look brighter than I am. *smile*

And if we actually found out what happened to her and confirmed it? Personally I think the info should go to Law Enforcement for safety reasons.

http://www.mauramurray.com/
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/afa10e18b
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/02/27/footprints_in_the_snow/

I got these links from one of the early posts but I forget whose post it was..
The Murray Family agrees with you that information should go to
New Hampshire State Police Major Crimes Unit - Lt. Russ Conte at: 1-603-271-2663 Lt. Conte is now in charge of Maura's investigation. Therefore, it *appears* that NH LE no longer think she is a runaway and/or suicidal.


Thanks for your interest.

Because I am so invoved in Maura's case, I want to let everyone know that I am going to be unavailable for the most part for the next 2 weeks. I may have a chance to make a post here and there. But, I will catch up when I return.

[docwho3]

To Peabody:
Thank you so much for taking the time & effort to share this info.
I had already begun finding some of the online info you mentioned.
I look forward to your return in 2 weeks.

[murraydwyer]

July 2005 was the time that NH LE called in the Major Crimes unit and began to take seriously that Maura was not missing of her own accord. There are newstories mentioning the involvement of Major Crimes. Peabody

I noted the time of this post...and realize that Peabody was up either very early or very late....but I think the search Peabody is talking about happened in July 2004.

Its good to see so much dicussion about Maura's case again, and invite those of you who are seeking information to visit Maura's website at www.MauraMurray.com. Sharon Rausch, Billy's mother, has attempted to correct some information and has added information that does not appear in print. There are also some pictures of the area where Maura's car was found.

[docwho3]

July 2005 was the time that NH LE called in the Major Crimes unit and began to take seriously that Maura was not missing of her own accord. There are newstories mentioning the involvement of Major Crimes. Peabody

I noted the time of this post...and realize that Peabody was up either very early or very late....but I think the search Peabody is talking about happened in July 2004.

Its good to see so much dicussion about Maura's case again, and invite those of you who are seeking information to visit Maura's website at www.MauraMurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/). Sharon Rausch, Billy's mother, has attempted to correct some information and has added information that does not appear in print. There are also some pictures of the area where Maura's car was found.
Do you (or does anyone reading this) know the time that she really began her trip? One article linked to her website said "Rausch said a dorm mate saw her leave the campus about 4 or 4:30 p.m. Feb 9." but the main page of her website says that a witness (I think they mean the bus driver) saw her & made 911 call at about 7:30 pm.
I am wondering how much time actually elapsed from when Maura started her journey to the time the bus driver called the police. I also need to know what the drive time should have been.

[murraydwyer]

Hi Doc,

The only information the family has about the time Maura actually left the UMass campus in Amherst is that statement 4:00 or 4:30. If Maura travelled directly up Route 91 with no traffic and no stops, it would have taken about 2 hours and 40 plus minutes to three hours--depends on what mappiing system you look at. I personally do not know whether Maura stopped at the bank and liquor store before or after leaving the campus. Considering the time of day that she left, it is unlikely that she made the trip without hitting some traffic. I also don't know how fast she could have gone on three cylinders. The family has some lingering questions about whether she may have stopped in the Woodsville area...I repeat questions...

According to published reports, the bus driver saw her around 7:30. We know that the police were called at 7:29 by the other neighbors. Also according to published reports, the bus driver had trouble getting through to the police (I believe you can find that account in the 2/20/04 Caledonian Record). Initial media reports (I have no idea where they got their information) said that Maura was in a single car crash between 7:00 and 7:30.

To Marisa...the initial reports did say there was a man seen in Maura's car smoking a cigarette...unfortunately I cannot find which article stated it of the ones I have on my computer...I only have notes...but I know for a fact that that is what was initially reported.

I do have to also consider that the police & higher officials seem to be hinting that they have information that she is ok and wants to stay gone. But is that true? Did she perhaps leave them a note or call them? Or are they jumping to conclusions because she pulled money out of account in bank. Docwho

Initially, there was a lot of speculation by the police, by the media, by everyone. There was speculation that Maura had gone there to commit suicide, there was and is speculation that she began a new life, etc. etc. In the absence of facts...there is only speculation. The speculation continues for the family and the general public...if the police have facts, they have not shared them. The family has been refused Freedom of Information (Right to Know in NH - RS 91) requests by several agencies in the State of NH. This I know to be a fact.

There is a timeline here, an elderly couple saw Maura after the bus driver safe and sound. Cyberlaw
If you have it available, I would very much like to see this information. I was unable to find the article that quoted the female neighbor as saying she turned away after she saw the bus driver talking to Maura...I will continue to look.


Originally Posted by cyberlaw
The bus driver was investigated and cleared, he is well known and respected in the neighbourhood, he phoned the cops because he was worried about Maura, they have investigated him and cleared him.

With all of the research I have done and all of the reports I have read and seen, I do not recall ever having seen this information anywhere. While we are all entitled to our belief systems, this appears to be a factual statement and I, too, would like to see the source.

I have a funny feeling that Maura did not want to finish school and become a nurse like her Mom, go to the same school as her Dad, and was "tired" of her relationship with "Big Bill", but the only way she could get out of this situation is to runaway from everything and everyone.......so she can do what she wants with whomever she wants, without any "family" pressure to conform to expectations.......

This is an understandable assumption for you to make based on some of the personal information you shared in posts that were inadvertently deleted last February and not available to the newcomers. If my memory serves me correctly, at some point you chose to run away from your family and obviously some situation that was intolerable to you. To me it is inconceivable that Maura ran away. While I can think of reasons to run away, being tired of a relationship or not wanting to finish school don't fit my belief system as reasons for running away from it all.

To Docwho...there are pictures on Maura's website of the red barn (Weathered Barn in some articles). The pictues show the view both east and west and give you a sense of the area. They are on page 5 of the thread Discuss Maura's Case-Discussion on Maura's case. Hopefully this link will work...:
Pictures on www.Mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60)

If he was heading home it is conceivable that the bus was empty but I always prefer facts over speculation. (Note: I have 'heard' it said on this forum,although not by you, that the bus was a school bus but have not yet seen that confirmed either.) Docwho

In answer to this question, the bus can be seen in the pictures
Red Barn (http://www.mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75&sid=2df835e321aa351043fb037a45a79a9a) You can just see the blue ribbon on the tree to the left in the picture, though the family has been told the car ended up further down the street...and this is from the 2/20/04 Caledonian Record:
Atwood, a school bus driver for First Student, was returning from dropping off students after a day of skiing at Wildcat Mountain.

[Marisa714]

Hi Murraydywer,

Thanks for clearing up the 'smoker' for me, I misread what you wrote and thought the smoker was in the truck...oops! But now I do remember reading about someone seeing a man in the car w/her. But the bus driver didn't see her, right? Hmmm...I'd love to hear your opinion about the 'smoker'....do you think he was really there or not? Or not enough info either way to decide? If ya get a chance that is

[docwho3]

To murraydwyer:

Let me be sure that I understand you. For her to get from her 4 pm or 4:30 departure point to where she finally ran her car off the road would have taken a 2 hour & 40 minute to 3 hour trip? . . . .Wow that's what I call a long trip just to take a break!
I have to take my wife to a city, for her doctor appts., on an interstate that goes halfway across the state we live in and that only takes us about 1 hour & 20 minutes or so (one way.)

I was hoping you would tell me it should only take an hour and a half or less for her to get from dorm to that spot on the road as that would leave someone more time to haul her off, stash her somewhere & then call police later & try to pretend she had just vanished about 10 mins ago.

But ok- If she left at 4pm & drove for 2 hrs 40 mins that makes accident happen at 6:40 earliest. Lets say b driver is johny-on-the-spot & so has almost an hour opportunity to take either kill & hide or just bind & stash a live victem, call cops & then pretend she just disappeared in 10 mins (not accusing anyone but just looking at opportunity.) That's a tight schedule but a doable one. The prosecution had OJ on a pretty tight timeline too. ( Yes, before anyone reminds me, I know he beat the rap.)

Unless the whole 4 person police department (seems I read that number somewhere) camped out to follow him for next 36 hours he had time to move a victem more than once if need be.

But she could also have been picked up by a passerby on the road very quickly, even against her will. I know that because it is what happened in the small town murder I mentioned in an earlier post. His victem was an atheltic young girl & we all had troubles understanding how one person could abduct an athletic young person but he did it in only a few minutes and she was gone. I am glad he was caught & convicted but it taught me you can't underestimate the speed with which someone can be picked up.

I also wonder whats up with a 911 operator that can't actually get through to police? That sounds implausible but I don't live in that area. Maybe that's the norm there.

Back to subject at hand:
1. So we have an accident time that we only have one mans word about when it happened. And I see its at least possible she was there earlier than he said.

2. Also it was reported (allegedly by b. driver) that Maura said she had called AAA but that the article online says there is no cell phone coverage there. Hmmmm then if the article is true. . .either she lied or he did & we only have his word that was ever even said.

When all roads lead to Rome . . . . . investigate the roman. (sorry couldn't resist.)

I wonder if b driver has relatives land or other land of his own within 10 miles of his house? I do realize B. driver may be pure as the driven snow.
I am still looking at possibilities.

The friend following along minutes behind is also still a possibility, as is the stranger passerby.

I am just mulling over the pieces to see how they can be fit together as a possibility, like working those logic puzzles where they give you seemingly incomplete unrelated pieces of info and you have to unravel the whole description from those pieces. Makes me wonder why I am spending so much time on what is still only # 2 on my list of likely possible solutions. *smile* Even if I am totally wrong it will give me something to remind myself to be humble. Thanks for your patience.

[Peabody]

Many thanks to Jim Viola, husband of missing Patricia Viola, whohas made available a link to the video clip of Maura Murray's case featured on the Montel Williams Show: http://tinyurl.com/9eqkp (http://tinyurl.com/9eqkp)



Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

I emailed one of the news reporters that have reported on Maura's disappearance to ask if there is any new info and asked some questions.
Part of the answer I got surprised me.

I am quoting only a part of the email since I did not specifically tell the source I intended to use the answers I received on the forum (although I did indeed tell the reporter that I had joined an online forum that discusses missing person cases.)

from a news reporters email to me:
". . . . . But after some investigating, it turns out the police investigation probably didn't make a difference when it comes to Maura's whereabouts. Fred Murray, Maura's dad, said something very interesting to the media the day after Maura went missing, but retracted that statement just days later... Instead, he got the media focusing on the poor police investigation. With some probing, you can probably find out on your own what he said." hmmmmm I wonder what was meant by that?

[Peabody]

Post by DocWho3:
I emailed one of the news reporters that have reported on Maura's disappearance to ask if there is any new info and asked some questions.
Part of the answer I got surprised me.

I am quoting only a part of the email since I did not specifically tell the source I intended to use the answers I received on the forum (although I did indeed tell the reporter that I had joined an online forum that discusses missing person cases.)
Quote:
from a news reporters email to me:
". . . . . But after some investigating, it turns out the police investigation probably didn't make a difference when it comes to Maura's whereabouts. Fred Murray, Maura's dad, said something very interesting to the media the day after Maura went missing, but retracted that statement just days later... Instead, he got the media focusing on the poor police investigation. With some probing, you can probably find out on your own what he said."
hmmmmm I wonder what was meant by that?




So do I!

I am VERY familiar with Maura's case, and I cannot recall any remark by Maura's father that was ****retracted***, nor any remark that he made that would have taken the media's attention from the search from Maura to the poor police investigation......Mr. Murray wanted the media attention focused on the search for Maura. Most of all, he wanted the police searching for Maura.

Would it be possible for you to email this reporter again to learn IF the remark in question was reported in his newspaper? He has already told us (you) it was the *day after* Maura went missing. I find this strange in itself because Mr. Murray did not arrive in NH until the morning of the 2nd day that Maura was missing (Wed, Feb 11) , and did not learn of her missing until the evening of the first day after her missing (Tues, Feb 10).

I would be very interested in following up on this development.

Thanks for your sleuthing! ............sorry, I was unable to exclude my comments from within your quoted comments :-(


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

. . . . I would be very interested in following up on this development.

Thanks for your sleuthing! ............sorry, I was unable to exclude my comments from within your quoted comments :-(


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)




I have sent you a private message to allow you to follow up on the source.
I hope it helps you.

I too would be interested to know what was meant by those cryptic remarks but I have not yet pushed the issue since he obviously was uncomfortable with just telling me outright what he meant. Perhaps he was afraid of violating some ethical rule or maybe just afraid of a lawsuit of some kind. I just do not know at this point.

[Grassyknoll2]

Hi guys,

Maura Murray and Brianna Maitland are both featured this week in the SPOTLIGHT thread....and there's info on another girl missing in Portland, ME here on Websleuths and on Brianna's site...Lynn Moran, Portland, ME last seen Oct. 11th. There is also a new section on Maura's case information.

GK

[Peabody]

Maura is being featured along with Brianna Maitland in Websleuths Weekly Spotlight for Missing Persons. http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30819


Please check out the information provided there.

The are photos and comments by those who know Maura personally will give you more insight into Maura personally.

Thank You Websleuths!



Bring Maura Home
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

Maura Murray missing nursing student summary of case as I read it:
Maura murray was a nursing student and very able track athelete.
Nursing student Maura murray had a $10,000 car wreck a few days before she disappeared in February in N.H.
Sometime the week before she disappeared young Maura Murray decided something important and it involved
going away for at least several days. She set up an excuse for leaving with her boss at work & her profs at school by saying she had to attend to a death in the family. She searched hotel room availability on her computer in her dorm room. (Wish I knew if she searched singles or doubles rooms.) Those motels were booked up due to mardi gras. She also called someone that owned a condo that had been rented in the past. She also called someone in a dorm room but that person remains unknown. Then before leaving she withdrew almost all her money from her bank account at about 3:40 pm. She packed up the stuff from her room but did not take it all. She did take her school books with her and a book that was a gift from her dad and a pic of her brother. She called her boyfriend on the day she went missing and left a voice mail of her whimpering (according to him.) I don't know if this voice mail content can be verified. Some of the intial news reports said the call showed no upset on her part so I wonder if someones story later changed or if reporting was poor. She stopped at a store & bought quite a bit of liquor and possibly some pain reliever. She then drove off to her destiny as far as we know. The next time she is confirmed to be seen was when she had a 2nd wreck at 7pm or 7:30 pm. Maura is seen and approached by a bus driver on his way home who offers her help which she declines saying she has already called AAA. One news report also states there is no cell coverage in the area but I have not confirmed that to be so. The buss driver was only 100 yards or so from home & so he went eastward to his home. He had trouble getting through to police. His neighbor called police but I don't know how neighbor knew to do that - whether busdriver asked him to or neighbor saw Maura. The police came within 10 minutes & yet Maura was gone when they arrived. Later it is reported someone saw Maura walking or jogging east on the road. And later a dog search is reported to have lost her scent on the road east near the busdrivers house.

Her car had most of the stuff she packed still in it although some booze bottles seem to be missing along with her backpack.

Most of these details can be verified reading the linked news reports from her website at
http://www.mauramurray.com/news.html I will also soon try to post a more detailed look at things which will have linked sources in it.

[Marisa714]

Maura Murray missing nursing student summary of case as I read it:
Maura murray was a nursing student and very able track athelete.
Nursing student Maura murray had a $10,000 car wreck a few days before she disappeared in February in N.H.
Sometime the week before she disappeared young Maura Murray decided something important and it involved
going away for at least several days. She set up an excuse for leaving with her boss at work & her profs at school by saying she had to attend to a death in the family. She searched hotel room availability on her computer in her dorm room. (Wish I knew if she searched singles or doubles rooms.) Those motels were booked up due to mardi gras. She also called someone that owned a condo that had been rented in the past. She also called someone in a dorm room but that person remains unknown. Then before leaving she withdrew almost all her money from her bank account at about 3:40 pm. She packed up the stuff from her room but did not take it all. She did take her school books with her and a book that was a gift from her dad and a pic of her brother. She called her boyfriend on the day she went missing and left a voice mail of her whimpering (according to him.) I don't know if this voice mail content can be verified. Some of the intial news reports said the call showed no upset on her part so I wonder if someones story later changed or if reporting was poor. She stopped at a store & bought quite a bit of liquor and possibly some pain reliever. She then drove off to her destiny as far as we know. The next time she is confirmed to be seen was when she had a 2nd wreck at 7pm or 7:30 pm. Maura is seen and approached by a bus driver on his way home who offers her help which she declines saying she has already called AAA. One news report also states there is no cell coverage in the area but I have not confirmed that to be so. The buss driver was only 100 yards or so from home & so he went eastward to his home. He had trouble getting through to police. His neighbor called police but I don't know how neighbor knew to do that - whether busdriver asked him to or neighbor saw Maura. The police came within 10 minutes & yet Maura was gone when they arrived. Later it is reported someone saw Maura walking or jogging east on the road. And later a dog search is reported to have lost her scent on the road east near the busdrivers house.

Her car had most of the stuff she packed still in it although some booze bottles seem to be missing along with her backpack.

Most of these details can be verified reading the linked news reports from her website at
http://www.mauramurray.com/news.html I will also soon try to post a more detailed look at things which will have linked sources in it.

Hey doc,
I think your a great sleuther! I was wondering if you'd mind taking a peek at the missing but not forgotten thread for Maura? I'd like to know what your take is on the last few posts (about the bus driver)...if you want to that is! Thanks

[gatetrekker44]

but left out a few key points:
1. The person who supposedly saw Maura walking/running down the road did not report this info until 3-4 months after Maura went missing-stating he didn't realize the significance(was he hiding under a rock all that time?)
2. That other than this report-by his own admission, the bus driver becomes the last admitted person to see or speak with Maura.
3. That LE returned Maura's personal items to her family WITHOUT doing any forensics-and then turned around and asked for them back for testing after mucho bad publicity about their handling of the case was reported.
4. That a certain segment of LE in NH was being investigated for involvment in a murder and cover-up/and a poster here who stated they were retired from NH LE spoke about the sloppy, slipshod investigation into Maura's case.
5. That from the start-LE was almost fanatically obsessed with insisting that Maura had disappeared voluntarily-and it was only thru the tireless efforts of her family and friends and certain folks here at Websleuths that any real investigating was done at all.

Believe what you will-but I personally believe that there is a sinister, almost pathological mindset in the NH LE community that absolutely refuses to admit that Maura is missing not of her own choosing-and that someone currently or formerly involved in LE or who is well acquainted with the LE in the area is involved-and that Maura may not be the only victim! :twocents:


Bring Maura home!

[docwho3]

Hey doc,
I think your a great sleuther! I was wondering if you'd mind taking a peek at the missing but not forgotten thread for Maura? I'd like to know what your take is on the last few posts (about the bus driver)...if you want to that is! Thanks
Thanks for the kind words. Here are a few thoughts:
A post in this thread places her start-trip-time at about 4:00 pm to 4:30 pm (and planethuff (www.planethuff.com/twilight_kingdom/archives/2005/07/maura_brianna_a.html) at sometime after 3:40)and yet reports also place her in a wrecked car at about 7:30 pm. Now the bus driver might have had opportunity to harm Maura but since reports also hint at another neighbor having spoken to her or at least they called the cops so I can't say for sure that he had unobserved opportunity to do anything unless distance & snow might mask his actions from his neighbor or unless neighbor helped him commit a crime. Makes me wonder though if this was the same neighbor that allegedly complained about searchers on his land and barred his land from them. I have not seen anything to indicate that the busdriver's wife was home at the time but there was mention made of a neighbor being home. Also If busdriver's wife was home why didn't he ask her to go with him to speak to Maura since its reported that his wife later said (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt) that she understood that Maura might have felt bad about her husband's large size and so refused his offer of help for that reason. To me that sounds as if she was not there when it happened. I don't know if the police suspected something of him or if they were just being thorough but news reports said that the bus driver was questioned several times.

Question:If Maura had just had a wreck but had no cell phone coverage then would she be willing to sit there in the cold & dark with no real hope of rescue? Or would she perhaps walk towards the bus drivers house or the nearest lit up house looking for someone with a phone? Or might she know someone was already on the way on the same road to meet her at her destination? All this sort of hinges on there not being cell coverage because if she had cell coverage why not call for help? Or did she? At what time were her last few cell calls made? Were any cell calls made after 7 pm?

As yet I have no pet theory. I am still gathering data & asking questions & sometimes offering up thoses questions & thoughts in posts for others to help either confirm or deny or just give opinions of those questions & thoughts so that we might hopefuly help Maura's case be resolved in the best way possible.

[docwho3]

but left out a few key points:
1. The person who supposedly saw Maura walking/running down the road did not report this info until 3-4 months after Maura went missing-stating he didn't realize the significance(was he hiding under a rock all that time?)Well I said it was a summary. But if you believe that the bus driver got her as you seem to indicate then whether he picked her up from her car wreck site or whether he picked her up just as she was walking to his house or whether she in fact walked to his front door does not really matter does it? Other than it might prove he lied about the details of his exact encounter with her.
2. That other than this report-by his own admission, the bus driver becomes the last admitted person to see or speak with Maura.Not sure that is correct in light of the neighbor having called police. How did neighbor know to call cops? Did busdriver call up & ask him to? Or did Neighbor also talk to her? Until we know more about neighbor's exact involvement in the situation that night it is hard to draw solid conclusions.
3. That LE returned Maura's personal items to her family WITHOUT doing any forensics-and then turned around and asked for them back for testing after mucho bad publicity about their handling of the case was reported.Yes, I did not mention that as my purpose is not to flame the cops but to try to fit together the pieces to help resolve this case.
4. That a certain segment of LE in NH was being investigated for involvment in a murder and cover-up/and a poster here who stated they were retired from NH LE spoke about the sloppy, slipshod investigation into Maura's case. As I am still gathering data I was not aware of L.E. investigating Maura's case being investigated for murder. That would need to include more than one officer in her case I would think but I am willing to read sources with full details if you post the links.
5. That from the start-LE was almost fanatically obsessed with insisting that Maura had disappeared voluntarily-and it was only thru the tireless efforts of her family and friends and certain folks here at Websleuths that any real investigating was done at all.Given the facts as already stated I can see where people might think Maura planned to leave voluntarily. I think the question in my mind is whether she meant time-off to be permanent or not. At present I am not yet convnced it was intended to be permanent.
Believe what you will-but I personally believe that there is a sinister, almost pathological mindset in the NH LE community that absolutely refuses to admit that Maura is missing not of her own choosing-and that someone currently or formerly involved in LE or who is well acquainted with the LE in the area is involved-and that Maura may not be the only victim! :twocents:

Bring Maura home!I have no pet theory yet. I am still gathering data and asking questions. I am quite willing to look at any linked to data you have on the subject. L.E. might well be involved for all I know. But I also have no real indication yet that L.E. is involved either.

Before you get angry (your last post part sounded angry) you should please realize that any good investigation has to look at all the facts & must also ask questions about everyone & everything.

Posting links to relevant info will do more to convince readers than making statements.

Thank you for your patience.

[Marisa714]

Thanks for the kind words. Here are a few thoughts:
A post in this thread places her start-trip-time at about 4:00 pm to 4:30 pm (and planethuff (www.planethuff.com/twilight_kingdom/archives/2005/07/maura_brianna_a.html) at sometime after 3:40)and yet reports also place her in a wrecked car at about 7:30 pm. Now the bus driver might have had opportunity to harm Maura but since reports also hint at another neighbor having spoken to her or at least they called the cops so I can't say for sure that he had unobserved opportunity to do anything unless distance & snow might mask his actions from his neighbor or unless neighbor helped him commit a crime. Makes me wonder though if this was the same neighbor that allegedly complained about searchers on his land and barred his land from them. I have not seen anything to indicate that the busdriver's wife was home at the time but there was mention made of a neighbor being home. Also If busdriver's wife was home why didn't he ask her to go with him to speak to Maura since its reported that his wife later said (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt) that she understood that Maura might have felt bad about her husband's large size and so refused his offer of help for that reason. To me that sounds as if she was not there when it happened. I don't know if the police suspected something of him or if they were just being thorough but news reports said that the bus driver was questioned several times.

Question:If Maura had just had a wreck but had no cell phone coverage then would she be willing to sit there in the cold & dark with no real hope of rescue? Or would she perhaps walk towards the bus drivers house or the nearest lit up house looking for someone with a phone? Or might she know someone was already on the way on the same road to meet her at her destination? All this sort of hinges on there not being cell coverage because if she had cell coverage why not call for help? Or did she? At what time were her last few cell calls made? Were any cell calls made after 7 pm?

As yet I have no pet theory. I am still gathering data & asking questions & sometimes offering up thoses questions & thoughts in posts for others to help either confirm or deny or just give opinions of those questions & thoughts so that we might hopefuly help Maura's case be resolved in the best way possible.

Thanks for your insight! Her last call was made at:
I also learned that Maura had checked her voice mail from her cell phone at approximately 4:30 PM on Monday, February 9th and that the very last call made from her cell phone was approximately at 1:00 PM on the 9th (both of these times are from memory.) When the cell phone bill arrived in March, we learned that the last call from Maura’s cell phone was to Billy’s cell phone. Billy told me that Maura tried to reach him by phone and sent him one email on Monday, Feb 9th as quoted in the outline.

http://mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=163

Also this is of some importance IMO (since you said your still gathering info I wasn't sure if you'd come accross this yet)....I'm gonna post this next bit on another post b/c it's very long!

[Marisa714]

This is one post as part of a timeline over at Maura's site...I think this a ton of info and it's all in that one timeline!

http://mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=163

Call February 11th - Red Cross:
Billy and I both were insistent that the missed call/message to him that morning was from Maura. I had listened to the message. The ‘message’ was very short. It consisted of a very short time of labored breathing (the sound we all make if we have exerted ourselves in very cold weather), two, possibly three very wet sniffs as if someone were crying or had a very bad cold and ended in the middle of a very soft muffled sob. The police played the message through their land line and said that it only sounded like someone humming. Detective Landry with the NH SP finally told us that he traced the call to the Red Cross. Please note that this information was given to us Wednesday evening *after* we had provided information about all of the people and agencies that Bill, Billy and I had talked to since learning of Maura’s disappearance. Per Red Cross: ... routinely she would not call any soldier as it is not necessary to speak to anyone but the parent or spouse making the request and the commanding officer. Also, I have my notes for the information that she requested and feel confident that I never gave her Billy’s cell phone number. The only number that I gave her was my cell phone number and the phone number of Billy’s Commanding Officer at Fort Sill. Of course, she already had my home phone number from the message to the answering service. It is also my opinion that the sounds in the message make absolutely no sense *if* the call was from the Red Cross. Why would the Red Cross not leave a message, or if the other explanation that is to follow is the case, why would a Red Cross Employee/Volunteer make labored breathing, crying sounds while making a professional call? Another reason the NH SP said that it was not reasonable to believe the message came from Maura was that she would have a left a message instead of just sounds. To my way of thinking the main reason that Maura may not have left a message is that Billy frequently has a problem with his phone whereby the caller does not realize that their call has made connection with Billy’s phone. I have called him 2 or 3 times in a row, thinking that my call did not go through. Until we realized this problem just in the last few months since Maura went missing, Billy would always ask why I hung up and called again. If this were the case, then Maura may not have had any other minutes remaining on the calling card or she was in the undesirable position of not being able to place the call again. As to the Red Cross possibility as suggested by NH SP, Billy never received a call or a voice message from them.
2/27/04 - However, Scarinza said that angle has been eliminated because investigators traced the calling card to the American Red Cross officials who had been attempting to contact Bill Rausch.
Caledonian Record 2/27/04



This message is something that really makes me believe that something happened to Maura, it just seems so strange.

[Marisa714]

Ok I just saw this too! How could they positive the bus driver and neighbors had NOTHING to with this if they didn't even search their property? This really bothers me!

http://mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=163

2/27/04 - Scarinza says there is absolutely no evidence foul play has been involved, and that people living in the area of the accident scene have been interviewed several times.

A search of nearby homes by a canine team as well as forensics experts would require a search warrant. And a search warrant would require probable cause. Caledonian Record 2/27/04

Rausch said family members were told by at least one person living near the accident site a man was seen in Maura's car after the accident. Caledonian Record 2/27/04

[docwho3]

To marisa714:
Thank you for the help with info.
I have also been reading the info at the web link you gave me. Thx.
It will take me some time to digest it all so don't be surprised If I take a day or two and then suddenly ask more questions.

Without giving out more info than she would like, my wife has had A.M.L. (Accute Myelogenous Leukemia) & is now recovering from a bone marrow transplant. Things have went just fine so far. But I must drive her across half the state & into the next state every other week for a checkup. Tomorrow (Monday) morning we will be going there & so will be gone until late afternoon.
Next time we will probably revert to every other Thursday as thats our normal day.

[Marisa714]

To marisa714:
Thank you for the help with info.
I have also been reading the info at the web link you gave me. Thx.
It will take me some time to digest it all so don't be surprised If I take a day or two and then suddenly ask more questions.

Without giving out more info than she would like, my wife has had A.M.L. (Accute Myelogenous Leukemia) & is now recovering from a bone marrow transplant. Things have went just fine so far. But I must drive her across half the state & into the next state every other week for a checkup. Tomorrow (Monday) morning we will be going there & so will be gone until late afternoon.
Next time we will probably revert to every other Thursday as thats our normal day.

I'm very sorry to hear your wife has AML (or had?) And I'm very happy to hear the bone marrow transplant went well! I will be thinking of the both of you! Hope everything continues to go well. I completely understand if it will take you a few days, I'll be here anyways...I think I always am ;-)
I know the info at the link is a lot to digest, it's hard for me to keep it organized in my mind. I'm very happy your posting here for Maura!

Marisa

[docwho3]

I'm very sorry to hear your wife has AML (or had?) And I'm very happy to hear the bone marrow transplant went well! I will be thinking of the both of you! Hope everything continues to go well. I completely understand if it will take you a few days, I'll be here anyways...I think I always am ;-)
I know the info at the link is a lot to digest, it's hard for me to keep it organized in my mind. I'm very happy your posting here for Maura!

Marisa
Had :-)

Things are going well now so far & we hope that continues.

I am hoping that while I digest things some of the super sleuths in the Taylor B. Forum will use their wonderful data gathering & analyzing talents & resources to run background checks, search out more info on everyone involved (including busdriver & neighbor) and generally show off their great skills in solving this soonest. And I mean that as a compliment & not sarcasm to them.

They are some really talented people and I won't mind "eating their dust" - lol.

The main thing is to resolve Maura's case the best way possible.

[docwho3]

I really need to go rest for tomorrow but one more little question:

When searching the area after of her disappearance was any tape found, maybe wadded up,such as reflective tape? - not the type that would be used to bind anyone.

[Marisa714]

I really need to go rest for tomorrow but one more little question:

When searching the area after of her disappearance was any tape found, maybe wadded up,such as reflective tape? - not the type that would be used to bind anyone.

Hmm...I'm not sure. I'll see if I can find anything though!

[murraydwyer]

A couple of points

One news report also states there is no cell coverage in the area but I have not confirmed that to be so. The buss driver was only 100 yards or so from home & so he went eastward to his home. He had trouble getting through to police. His neighbor called police but I don't know how neighbor knew to do that - whether busdriver asked him to or neighbor saw Maura. The police came within 10 minutes & yet Maura was gone when they arrived. Later it is reported someone saw Maura walking or jogging east on the road. And later a dog search is reported to have lost her scent on the road east near the busdrivers house. Docwho

I have confirmed that there is no cell coverage. I had the same phone service with a dual band phone (meaning it would search for another type of signal)...if my memory serves me correctly, it wouldn't even go into search mode...forget what it said, but there was nothing.

The neighbor has told friends and family members that they heard a car accelerate (exactly what I did further east on that road when my car was losing power) and then a thud. Now I've wondered whether Maura might have gotten stuck and tried to get out of the snow on the side of the road??

[docwho3]

A couple of points . . .
Just a quick note to say I haven't forgotten you all. I am still digesting all this info as well as looking into a few other forums. Then I also have to go do normal everyday stuff too, paying bills, shopping etc.

I did notice the bit about the extra police car on the webpage & have also been looking into finding reported instances of such a thing happening in relation to New Hampshire in particular. I actually found a few instances of such a thing.
It evidently isn't a thing totally unheard of for people to do.

fake police officer News - September 22, 2005
Pelham teen accused of impersonating a police officer
http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=60753

Portsmouth, NH Tuesday, June 3, 2003
Four face charges after being arrested in fake police cruiser
http://www.seacoastonline.com/2003news/06032003/south_of/32113.htm

Man arrested for using fake badge
Updated: 8/4/2004 10:51 PM
http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/headlines/?ArID=87582&SecID=33

Police seek victims of police impersonator k victims of police impersonator: 7/15/01
http://www.s-t.com/daily/07-01/07-15-01/a03wn018.htm

Hampton, NH Friday, January 9, 2004
The impersonating an officer charge stems from an incident on Sept. 28. On that date, Parks was stopped in the parking lot of Master McGrath’s in Seabrook by Seabrook Sgt. Michael Gallagher. Asked for identification, Parks showed Gallagher a sheriff’s badge identifying him as a deputy sheriff out of New London, Conn.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/2004news/hampton/01092004/news/69476.htm

[murraydwyer]

Found the July 2001 article particularly interesting...there were other instances of police impersonators more recent, too...I'll try to find them.

There are a few reasons the 2001 article is of interest

Police seek victims of police impersonator
By The Associated Press
"He's all over the state of New Hampshire."

Robert Loud, 51, was arrested Friday in Nashua, three days after a Merrimack woman raised questions about being pulled over in the city.

The woman in the Nashua case said an unmarked police cruiser with flashing blue lights pulled her over on the Daniel Webster Highway Tuesday afternoon.
A man in a police uniform said he stopped her because a tail light was out. He had the woman sit in his car while he searched hers,


Sprankle said Loud told investigators he stops suspected drunken drivers at night and drives them home after searching their cars.

He said officers found a huge collection of police gear at Loud's home, including ammunition, handcuffs, radios, flashlights, police clothing and hats, about 20 real police badges and about 1,000 patches from various police departments around the country.
They also found various magnetic police seals that can be affixed to car doors to make vehicles look like police cars, he said.
They found no weapons or items such as pepper spray, Sprankle said.
He said Loud has been convicted of impersonating a police officer in the past. The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Department investigated him in 1993, Sprankle said, and state police also investigated him in connection with car stops on the Everett Turnpike in Nashua.
Police are asking anyone who believes they may have been stopped by Loud to call (603) 594-3554. They also are interested in talking to anyone Loud may have driven home.
"Our concerns are two-fold," Sprankle said, "for his safety and the citizens' safety, dealing with an individual representing himself to be the police."

[docwho3]

Found the July 2001 article particularly interesting...there were other instances of police impersonators more recent, too...I'll try to find them.

There are a few reasons the 2001 article is of interest

Police seek victims of police impersonator
By The Associated Press
"He's all over the state of New Hampshire."

Robert Loud, 51, was arrested Friday in Nashua, three days after a Merrimack woman raised questions about being pulled over in the city.

The woman in the Nashua case said an unmarked police cruiser with flashing blue lights pulled her over on the Daniel Webster Highway Tuesday afternoon.
A man in a police uniform said he stopped her because a tail light was out. He had the woman sit in his car while he searched hers,


Sprankle said Loud told investigators he stops suspected drunken drivers at night and drives them home after searching their cars.

He said officers found a huge collection of police gear at Loud's home, including ammunition, handcuffs, radios, flashlights, police clothing and hats, about 20 real police badges and about 1,000 patches from various police departments around the country.
They also found various magnetic police seals that can be affixed to car doors to make vehicles look like police cars, he said.
They found no weapons or items such as pepper spray, Sprankle said.
He said Loud has been convicted of impersonating a police officer in the past. The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Department investigated him in 1993, Sprankle said, and state police also investigated him in connection with car stops on the Everett Turnpike in Nashua.
Police are asking anyone who believes they may have been stopped by Loud to call (603) 594-3554. They also are interested in talking to anyone Loud may have driven home.
"Our concerns are two-fold," Sprankle said, "for his safety and the citizens' safety, dealing with an individual representing himself to be the police."
I thought you might find that one interesting.
But the question is where was he on that particular night in question. Was he in jail or already out? It could be the way it happened . . . .Search her car, walk back to his own car (where she was) & he is carrying a few bottles 'for evidence' and then gets in to either 'take her in' or to 'drive her home'. . . .

In my mind it's at least a possibility so far.

And these links I found may only be what little the public knows about that made the easily findable internet pages. I wonder how many other impersonators there were when maura disappeared that we don't yet know about.


It's not my pet theory yet because I don't have one but that sort of thing sounds possible at first look.

[Grassyknoll2]

Hi guys...this impersonating issue is one I looked at a while ago...



POSTED: 12:14 p.m. EST January 10, 2005
UPDATED: 6:07 p.m. EST January 10, 2005


Story by thewmurchannel.com (http://www.thewmurchannel.com/)

SALEM, N.H. -- A Massachusetts man accused of impersonating a police officer was scheduled to appear in Salem district court Monday, but he never showed up.

Eric Williams, 22, of North Andover, Mass., was accused of pretending to be a cop, driving an unmarked cruiser and carrying a phony badge. He faces five felony charges and two misdemeanors. Prosecutors said Williams bought a 1998 Crown Victoria in Salem using a forged check from his mother. Police said they later found the car equipped with a police blue-light package, and weapons were found at his home.

Not sure of the source of this article, the poster on Brianna Maitland's site didn't include it:
July 30, 2004

PORTSMOUTH — A convicted sex offender has been charged with impersonating a police officer and then handcuffing and sexually assaulting a woman.

Ann Hope , a police spokeswoman, said Kenneth Allen Downer , 41, of the 200 block of Beacon Road was arrested Thursday.


He is charged with abduction with intent to defile, forcible sodomy, sexual battery, indecent exposure and unlawful use of police paraphernalia.

Downer is a registered sex offender, Hope said.

and this
CASE #04D301890
TROOPERS
Trooper Andrew McLaughlin and Sgt. James Cruise
AGENCY
State Police Bethel
DATE
05-06-04
LOCATION
The White River area
>DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF INCIDENT

Trooper Andrew McLaughlin and Sgt. James Cruise of the VT State Police out of Bethel were advised that a male was identifying himself as a Vermont State Trooper out of the Bethel Barracks. The male told two females that he was Trooper Potter working out of Bethel. Potter convinced the females that he was able to handle a criminal matter that they were involved with and that they need not contact the state police for further assistance. The females did not contact the state police because Potter told them he

would handle the matter. Trooper McLaughlin charged Potter with impersonating a police officer and further criminal charges could result pending further investigation.


or this
Man Charged With Impersonating Police Officer

Police Seize Several Weapons From Car, Apartment

POSTED: 6:22 pm EDT May 27, 2005

NEWTON, N.H. -- Police in Newton said that what appeared at first to be a simple traffic stop ended in arresting and charging a man with impersonating a police officer.

Elija Hannan, 22, was found sleeping in his car parked outside his Newton apartment at about 6:30 a.m. Friday. An officer investigating a report of a stranded driver said that he saw Hannan wearing a jacket and hat marked "Police," along with a shotgun in the back of the vehicle and a handgun on Hannan's hip.

http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4542286/detail.html (http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4542286/detail.html)

[Marisa714]

Do you guys think this could be what happened to Maura? Hmmm I wonder....it seems that impersonating officers isn't as uncommon as I had thought! My own hairdresser was pulled over by a man impersonating an officer, she asked to see his badge though and he refused! It ended up that they drove down to a gas station at a busy intersection and the 'cop' followed them and got into an accident!!!! Stupid guy! I don't know why these people do things like that....don't they have something better to do? Geez! Sorry, it frustrates me! So what does everybody think? I'd like to know! My mind is always changing when it comes to Maura, so little coverage of it and it doesn't seem like the investigation has progressed AT ALL! Let's form a troop of our own and go help Maura's family! I seriously do wish there was something I could do :-(

[gatetrekker44]

docwho3-but not for the reasons you may think!

I have been following Maura's case from the very beginning-and everything in my previous post was referenced in links on Maura's original thread. Unfortunately, when the thread was being moved, all the info was lost. But you can be certain that I would not knowingly put out unsubstantiated info-simply because it would only cloud the quest for what really happened for Maura.

My anger stems from the fact that after than 18 months there are simply no more answers for her friends and family than at the start. And since you are somewhat newer to Maura's postings(although I realize you may have been a "lurker" out there reading the info but simply not posting)please understand that at various times, I and others who questioned the handling of Maura's investigation(I use the term loosely!)were villified and verbally attacked by some other individuals that went so far as to publicly accuse Maura's family of lying to LE and the media about Maura's frame of mind, etc.

I stand by my statements-but I certainly defend your right to your opinions.


Bring Maura home!

[Marisa714]

docwho3-but not for the reasons you may think!

I have been following Maura's case from the very beginning-and everything in my previous post was referenced in links on Maura's original thread. Unfortunately, when the thread was being moved, all the info was lost. But you can be certain that I would not knowingly put out unsubstantiated info-simply because it would only cloud the quest for what really happened for Maura.

My anger stems from the fact that after than 18 months there are simply no more answers for her friends and family than at the start. And since you are somewhat newer to Maura's postings(although I realize you may have been a "lurker" out there reading the info but simply not posting)please understand that at various times, I and others who questioned the handling of Maura's investigation(I use the term loosely!)were villified and verbally attacked by some other individuals that went so far as to publicly accuse Maura's family of lying to LE and the media about Maura's frame of mind, etc.

I stand by my statements-but I certainly defend your right to your opinions.


Bring Maura home!

Every time I think about Maura and what could have happened...most of the time I question LE. IMO, the way they have handled this investigation, the secrecy, and the false comments regarding Maura being suicidal to the media ALL make me question LE. I'm not accusing but just questioning.
Gatetrekker~I wish people didn't react to your opinions the way they did! And to go as far as accusing members! I don't think I got to read these comments but it bothers me anyway! I hope I'm not attacked here :(

[docwho3]

Some track runners can go a long way, many miles in fact.
I wonder how far could Maura have gone if alternating between jogging & walking- with a headache. I know most long distance runners can run with pain.
So I wonder what was her limit given the temp and the headache? 5 mi? 10 mi? long marathon?

I also wonder which way did L.E. come from that night?

[gatetrekker44]

was the fact that Maura had 2 accidents within a short time frame(less than two weeks). On the previous thread, I had brought up the possibility that she may have suffered a cumulative head injury that made her unable to act rationally. Just another of the many ?? but just too few answers!


Bring Maura home!

[docwho3]

was the fact that Maura had 2 accidents within a short time frame(less than two weeks). On the previous thread, I had brought up the possibility that she may have suffered a cumulative head injury that made her unable to act rationally. Just another of the many ?? but just too few answers!


Bring Maura home!Actually that possibility is something that I think we should keep in the mix until we have evidence to the contrary, at least where the jogging away is concerned. Its one of the reasons,though not the only one, why I was interested in knowing how far Maura would have been able to go before being too tired to carry on. I felt the searches seemed to have been too close to the scene of the accident when you consider this was a 'standout' track athlete.

Also I keep remembering the boyscout that was lost awhile back and he went in directions not expected by the searchers and was found a long ways off but alive. Obviously Maura has been gone a very long time but the distance part of the story could still hold true.

That's just one of many questions & thoughts we encounter in this case- sigh.

[Grassyknoll2]

Thanks for the reminder about that discussion, Gatetrekker. This is one of the posts from the closed thread:

http://www.airbaginjury.com/how_can_the_brain_be.htm
Did you know?
Air bags can hurt or kill, now or later!
Air bags can cause immediate impact trauma or death.
Air bag fumes can cause immediate or delayed sickness or unnecessary death.
Air bags can cause delayed neurological muscle damage or brain injury.

The brain is vulnerable to traumatic damage in two ways. The cerebral cortex can become bruised - contused - when the head strikes a hard object (or a hard objects strikes the head). Or, the deep white matter can suffer diffuse axonal injury when the head is whiplashed without hitting a hard object (or being hit by one). In serious whiplash injuries, the axons are stretched so much that they are damaged.

When a moving head comes to a quick stop, the brain continues in its movement, striking the interior of the skull. This can cause bruising of the brain (a contusion) and bleeding (hemorrhage). Injury in these types of accidents occurs in parts of the brain closest to the point of impact, quite often the tips of the frontal and temporal lobes. In cases of blunt head trauma the brain can also be injured directly opposite the site of trauma -- on the other side of the brain, an injury known as contrecoup. This injury typically occurs when a moving head strikes a stationary object like the windshield. At impact the brain opposite the site of impact is pulled away from the skull, injuring the brain there.

Indirect Trauma
Medical research has discovered another mechanism of brain injury besides direct blunt trauma to the skull. The well-known phenomenon of the Shaken Baby Syndrome is an example. Severe shaking greatly stretches and damages delicate nerve cells, at times causing very significant injury or even death. In adults, severe whiplash can involve severe forces that may shake or rotate the brain enough to cause permanent brain damage.

Diffuse Axonal Injury
The brain consists of billions of nerve cells located in the gray matter which communicate with distant nerve cells through long nerve fibers called axons, composing the white matter. Severe sudden twisting or torquing of the brain, as occurs in a sudden acceleration/deceleration - whiplash -- accident, can stretch, twist, and damage these delicate axonal fibers. Under the microscope the axonal damage is called Diffuse Axonal Injury (DAI). Although diffuse axonal injury generally results from a severe whiplash injury that renders a patient comatose, recent studies have shown that diffuse axonal injury can also occur - but to a lesser degree -- when there has been only brief loss of consciousness (LOC). Because Diffuse Axonal Injury causes microscopic damage, it cannot be visualized on CT or MRI scans.

http://www.airbaginjury.com/how_can_the_brain_be.htm

[Marisa714]

Actually that possibility is something that I think we should keep in the mix until we have evidence to the contrary, at least where the jogging away is concerned. Its one of the reasons,though not the only one, why I was interested in knowing how far Maura would have been able to go before being too tired to carry on. I felt the searches seemed to have been too close to the scene of the accident when you consider this was a 'standout' track athlete.

Also I keep remembering the boyscout that was lost awhile back and he went in directions not expected by the searchers and was found a long ways off but alive. Obviously Maura has been gone a very long time but the distance part of the story could still hold true.

That's just one of many questions & thoughts we encounter in this case- sigh.

Dochoo,
Good point about the boyscout. I think that's a good possibility, wasn't that boy scout found like pretty far away? Sorry I can't quite remember how far it was. I wonder how well the searches were done....

[docwho3]

Dochoo,
Good point about the boyscout. I think that's a good possibility, wasn't that boy scout found like pretty far away? Sorry I can't quite remember how far it was. I wonder how well the searches were done....
Yes He was found 5 miles away from start point but he went over a mountain to do it and he did it at only 11 yrs old.

"....He was in a very rugged area. He was in an area that they thought was a low-percentage area, in terms of searching, because it was so far away. And they had been there once before, but they went back again. ..."

"....GRACE: Very quickly, before we go break, back to Ted Rowlands, CNN correspondent. Ted, he got actually over a mountain, a mountain range?
ROWLANDS: Yes, well, it was a summit. And wait until you see it. It`s right behind us here. He walked, basically...
GRACE: Holy moly!
ROWLANDS: ... all across that summit and was found on the other side. And it was an area where they really didn`t search too heavily because they didn`t think that an 11-year-old boy would make his way across that summit. But he did. And that is where they eventually found him. ..."
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/21/ng.01.html

boy scout found 5 miles north east of camp. And this was only an 11 years old.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160189,00.html

[Marisa714]

Yes He was found 5 miles away from start point but he went over a mountain to do it and he did it at only 11 yrs old.

"....He was in a very rugged area. He was in an area that they thought was a low-percentage area, in terms of searching, because it was so far away. And they had been there once before, but they went back again. ..."

"....GRACE: Very quickly, before we go break, back to Ted Rowlands, CNN correspondent. Ted, he got actually over a mountain, a mountain range?
ROWLANDS: Yes, well, it was a summit. And wait until you see it. It`s right behind us here. He walked, basically...
GRACE: Holy moly!
ROWLANDS: ... all across that summit and was found on the other side. And it was an area where they really didn`t search too heavily because they didn`t think that an 11-year-old boy would make his way across that summit. But he did. And that is where they eventually found him. ..."
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/21/ng.01.html

boy scout found 5 miles north east of camp. And this was only an 11 years old.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,160189,00.html


Geez!!!! 5 miles!!! That is sooo far! Especially over a mountain, I hadn't considered Maura wandering THAT far before but now I'm not so sure. Wasn't the search radius like 2 or 3 miles? Throwing that off the top of my head...I'll go look for it.

[Marisa714]

Ok, I found this over at Maura's website...

SEARCHES

2/14/04 Boston Herald - Meanwhile, Haverhill, N.H., police said they have ended the search of the area where Murray crashed the car but continue to investigate her disappearance. A witness said she emerged from her car uninjured and disappeared when the witness left to call police.

2/15/04 Boston Globe - Using tracking dogs, helicopters, and trained searchers, local and state police, as well as state fish and game officials, covered nearly 20 miles along Route 112, but found no trace of Murray's footprints in the snow. The tracking dogs lost her scent within 100 feet of the accident, leading investigators and her loved ones to believe she either hitched a ride and continued on her way, or was abducted.

http://mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=163

It's at the bottom of the page!

[docwho3]

Ok, I found this over at Maura's website...

SEARCHES

2/14/04 Boston Herald - Meanwhile, Haverhill, N.H., police said they have ended the search of the area where Murray crashed the car but continue to investigate her disappearance. A witness said she emerged from her car uninjured and disappeared when the witness left to call police.

2/15/04 Boston Globe - Using tracking dogs, helicopters, and trained searchers, local and state police, as well as state fish and game officials, covered nearly 20 miles along Route 112, but found no trace of Murray's footprints in the snow. The tracking dogs lost her scent within 100 feet of the accident, leading investigators and her loved ones to believe she either hitched a ride and continued on her way, or was abducted.

http://mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=163

It's at the bottom of the page!Notice that the entry about the feb 15th date says they used a combo of dogs, searchers, and helicopters.
And other reports that I read seemed to say that the ground searches only extended to about 5 miles & the rest was done by air. I will look them up again.

[Marisa714]

Notice that the entry about the feb 15th date says they used a combo of dogs, searchers, and helicopters.
And other reports that I read seemed to say that the ground searches only extended to about 5 miles & the rest was done by air. I will look them up again.

Ya know thats exactly what I was thinking when I read that too! Before I read that today I hadn't remembered reading about a search that seemed so professional (only word I can think of)...and I'm positive I never saw that a search was done as far as 20 miles away! Maybe that particular news station goofed or elaborated? Maybe it's right? Let me know if you find anything...I'll look too.

[docwho3]

Ya know thats exactly what I was thinking when I read that too! Before I read that today I hadn't remembered reading about a search that seemed so professional (only word I can think of)...and I'm positive I never saw that a search was done as far as 20 miles away! Maybe that particular news station goofed or elaborated? Maybe it's right? Let me know if you find anything...I'll look too.
Although I hope to find the info about the search distances I have to confess that I got sidetracked today & tonight reading the archived posts about this case. Not being familiar with this forum I had not yet done that. I see that this case has been given alot of discussion and some quite good points were made.

I am quite certain that to do a full explanation of any complete theory (citing sources) concerning this case would need to be several posts or maybe need to be done on a webpage and linked because the complete look at the case would need to look at all possibilities & then explain & cite sources as to why some possibilities were less likely than others. I do not feel that I yet have a full understanding of the case but I do feel I am making progress.
I am impressed with the quality of posts in the archive even though there was obviously some discord. Even though we may not all at once be able to say from our computer chairs that we know the whole truth I do think that together we are peeling back the covers of darkness (what a great story title.) Hopefully we will be of some help.

[Marisa714]

I think Maura's case is pretty complex, especially when you consider the lack of information! I'm excited your being so thorough w/this! I also hope that somehow we are/will help, very much so.



Although I hope to find the info about the search distances I have to confess that I got sidetracked today & tonight reading the archived posts about this case.

Ya know...ever since I found this website I spend at least twice as much time @ my computer now b/c I read something here then want more info so I search for more info, then I see something else I want more info on and so forth! So um I just wanted to let you know that I get sidetracked everyday so your not alone hehe

[docwho3]

I recommend that any new Web Sleuth members considering this case read the long archived file at
http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-19255

It can save us from covering old ground just to sort of reinvent the wheel.

[Marisa714]

I recommend that any new Web Sleuth members considering this case read the long archived file at
http://websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-19255

It can save us from covering old ground just to sort of reinvent the wheel.

Thanks...I'm going to reread the thread also!

[Peabody]

Although not much has taken place here lately, there has been a lot of activity/discussion recently on Maura's website

www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)

check out specifically the "Discussion on Maura's Case" Thread located at
http://www.mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=285&sid=25370f65d0cbaf96639398c2545a4215

[docwho3]

I finally got a copy of the book "Not Without Peril" from the local library and that was one of the things I have been waiting on. It seemed senseless to try come to any conclusions without having been thorough enough to have read one of the pieces of evidence left behind.

[LButler]

I put this post in the wrong thread yesterday, so I thought I would put it here. My apologies to anyone who has to read it twice, but this had really bugged me about the bus driver.....

The bus driver says he came upon her in her car with hazards on (she's not completely out of it here with hitting her head or alcohol ... neither confirmed, I know). Her car is mere yards from where the guy would park his bus (from the photos on the Maura website). If I were in his shoes, I would have not have stopped my bus on slick roads, in a turn where there's already been an accident. Considering it's only gonna take an extra minute to park the bus first and walk back, that's what I would have done - get the bus safely off the road. Because, he would have actually had to stop the bus, either shut it off or set the brake and exit it to check on her.

So, I think he would have possibly parked the bus, walked back to see about her, convinced her to walk back to the house with him while he called the cops, she'd be warm, safe, close to the scene, but when they got to where the bus was parked, maybe he grabbed her, put her on the bus... This would confirm her scent right to his driveway.

Then, if I didn't misread this, he comes out when the cops arrive and actually drives around helping to look for her? Good time to dump the body or move her to another location. Claiming she did not want him to call the cops would reinforce an idea that she was "on the run" or choosing not to be found.

Was the bus ever searched? Was the dog put on the bus to search for her scent? I'm assuming the bus driver would have driven around in a personal vehicle of some sort. Was that vehicle ever searched?

Does the time frame for the bus driver work? is roughly 7 pm (or whatever the reported time was, sorry, I don't remember every detail) a reasonable time for him to be ending his route and coming home? (I have since read that this was a ski trip) Is that confirmed and does the time work? Could he actually have found her earlier, abducted her and waited some amount of time before calling the cops? Is he married or anyone else live in his house with him?

Also, he claimed she had called AAA, but it seems there was no cell signal there? Have they checked with AAA to see if they received a call?

What about the construction guy who claims to have seen her and then not seen her or whatever? Have they been in his house, on his property?

Any investigation would check these men inside and out, especially the BD since he had the most contact with her and probably was the last to see her alive. And, if they check him out and he's cleared, they're free to follow other avenues.

My heart goes out to Maura and her family. The things that are happening in our world are so wrong!! After reading alot yesterday and today, even if she was leaving to get away for the moment, I do believe her intent was to return or to contact her loved ones at some point. We've all had moments where if you could arrange to walk out the door and "disappear" for even a day, you'd do it, but very very very few people (I think) want to disappear forever.:confused:

[docwho3]

I take it this maura murray is one of the several other maura murrays which exist in the USA at this time?
http://www.barnstablepatriot.com/04-23-04-news/BK_health.html

[Grassyknoll2]

Have found a few Maura Murray's when searching...the one you referenced above included...found this webpage with a picture of her. There was another Maura Murray in Europe, Ireland I believe, who died sometime in 2004...

Been cathcing up...some interesting new posters here and at mauramurray.com...

[docwho3]

Have found a few Maura Murray's when searching...the one you referenced above included...found this webpage with a picture of her. There was another Maura Murray in Europe, Ireland I believe, who died sometime in 2004...

Been cathcing up...some interesting new posters here and at mauramurray.com...
Cool, glad to have you researching things. I am sort of doing a work up also,
not necessarily to reach a grand conclusion but rather to go as far down each of the branches of the tree of possibility as I can with such given info as seems trustworthy. The idea being to end up with some recommendations that might help dig up more information. That in turn might help to eliminate some possibilities altogether which in the end can help focus an investigation.

With my limited resources that seems the best I can do for now.

[Masterj]

Is the road she had the accident on also called the "Kangamagus Highway?"

[Peabody]

Is the road she had the accident on also called the "Kangamagus Highway?"Yes, it is. It is so called because it parallels the Kangamangus River.........which according to locals, the fog/moisture from river creates a very slippery road surface in the evenings, especially during freezing temps.

[Masterj]

Yes, it is. It is so called because it parallels the Kangamangus River.........which according to locals, the fog/moisture from river creates a very slippery road surface in the evenings, especially during freezing temps.
I thought so. As a nature lover and budding photographer, I have taken this route home from my sister's ski house in North Conway. While the scenery is absolutely exquisite in the spring and fall, I can't imagine EVER traveling this road in the winter at night if you aren't familar with the area. It is known as being one of the most dangerous New England roads, especially in the winter due to the ice and fog. I almost ran out of gas on there once and I about had a nervous breakdown. I can only imagine how terrified poor Maura must have been.

I had to have driven by her accident site and the bus driver's house numerous times. It is so odd because everytime I go that way I think about all those woods and the secrets they must hold. Maura has quickly become a part of my daily thoughts and prayers.

[Peabody]

I thought so. As a nature lover and budding photographer, I have taken this route home from my sister's ski house in North Conway. While the scenery is absolutely exquisite in the spring and fall, I can't imagine EVER traveling this road in the winter at night if you aren't familar with the area. It is known as being one of the most dangerous New England roads, especially in the winter due to the ice and fog. I almost ran out of gas on there once and I about had a nervous breakdown. I can only imagine how terrified poor Maura must have been.

I had to have driven by her accident site and the bus driver's house numerous times. It is so odd because everytime I go that way I think about all those woods and the secrets they must hold. Maura has quickly become a part of my daily thoughts and prayers.
Because the family has reported so frequently that Maura was very familiar with the White Mountains and had camped and hiked in the area on a regular basis since she was a child, it is easy to assume that she was familiar with the road she was traveling.

In fact, to the best of anyone's knowledge Maura had never traveled the section of Route 112, the Kangamangus Highway, where she went missing; addditionally she had never traveled the interstate in VT that parallels the CT. River - Maura went missing only 5 miles from Wells River VT which lies on the border of VT/NH just off of the interstate.......she was traveling this unknown route because she had begun her journey in Amherst ............. routinely she traveled from eastern MA which would have been most familiar to her.

This fact is not widely known, but it is supported by the newspaper accounts of her doing a mapquest search before she left school........in my opinion it is important to understand that Maura was in a *strange* place about an 45 minutes from what her family believes was her destination......it was that location that was a VERY familiar place.


Bring Maura Home!

[Peabody]

Maura has been missing 21 months today.


Praying for her return and for the comfort of all those who love her.



Bring Maura Home!

[docwho3]

I finally finished reading through the book, Not Without Peril.

[LillyRush]

docwho, can you speak more about this book? your opinion on it? a summary? :)

[docwho3]

docwho, can you speak more about this book? your opinion on it? a summary? :)I am hesitant to post much about the book itself in public forum but I sent you a private message with some info in it.

I hope that helps.

[Peabody]

docwho, can you speak more about this book? your opinion on it? a summary? :)
I am hesitant to post much about the book itself in public forum but I sent you a private message with some info in it.

I hope that helps.
The book "Without Peril" by Nicholas Howe is a favorite of Maura's. Her father Fred gave it to her as a gift when they met Mr. Howe on one of their hiking trips in the White Mountains. The edition that was left in Maura's car was autographed by Mr. Howe.

Fred explained over and over to NH LE that although the book was about the White Mountain area and that it told the stories of some people losing their lives while hiking that it had nothing to do with or support the theory that Maura was suicidal. He told them that Maura's attraction to the book was that she had climbed each of the mountains featured in the book.

Somewhere online (sorry that I do not have the link) the boyfriend's mother told of Maura bringing the book with her on a visit to Ohio. In my opinion, that establishes the pattern that Maura took the book with her on trips; therefore it is not likely that the book, even with its stories of death, has anything to do with Maura's missing.

The book is not just about dying; it is a historical, personal and topographical profile of people trying to do the best that they can do in unexpected situations while hiking the beautiful, but dangerous White Mountains. Most of all, it is about the White Mountains which Maura so dearly loved. It is about the brave rescues, near misses and adventures of the White Mountains. Everyone that knows Maura speaks of her wonderful sense of adventure and fearlessness and understands her attraction to the book.

It is extremely important to remember that the family said from the beginning that Maura particularly identified with the stories because along with them she had hiked EVERY mountain in the Presidential Range of the White Mountains (as well as many others).

docwho3, I cannot see any reason for you to hesitate to share your opinions.

However, for those of you interested, you can listen to an interview regarding the book by the author Nicholas Howe at this link http://www.nhpr.org/node/4987

Hopefully, this will shed more light.




Bring Maura Home
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[Peabody]

also thought that you might be interested in the reviews found at this link

http://www.parksandtourism.net/us-travel-books/1929173067/Not-Without-Peril-150-Years-of-Misadventure-on-the-Presidential-Range-of-New-Hampshire.html
........to me they shed light on the difference in the way a person unfamiliar with the mountain ranges may see the book and in the way a person familiar with the ranges may see it......also, remember, The White Mountains were Maura's "favorite place on earth."

This quote was in the media shortly after she went missing.


Bring Maura Home
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

. . .docwho3, I cannot see any reason for you to hesitate to share your opinions. . . . .
To do justice to the book and to my opinions of the import of the book would require both a long long post and also might involve posting more of the book than a copyright owner might approve of which might get me in trouble with the T.O.S. here. I chose instead to send a private message to the individual.

Your recent posting makes me think perhaps you have read that answer(was it forwarded? -if so its ok- I just wondered.) and possibly taken exception to part of it. If so you have evidently missed coming to the conclusions that I myself came to. In that message I was only sharing, in brief, some info that I thought might be helpful without quoting the book in public forum in some way that might open me to copyright troubles. On the other hand, if you have not read my message then you at least now know why I chose not to post much in public forum about the book itself. I may change my mind and later do so. Another concern I have is to not, by releasing partial info, predispose others in their own search into this matter.

Either way, I would rather do my own work up and then offer the info in its entire form along with my few conclusions and suggestions. I just have not yet decided whether to do this in a webpage format or just do several long posts here.
The webpage idea is a bit of a problem since I have not yet chosen a new web site host and restored my own web site which was removed when I dropped my old internet provider but html on a website would for an easier format for me. I will eventually resolve these difficulties and post.

Note to readers:I do not have a stake in the outcome of this case. I do not care what the final solution turns out to be (other than the fact that I care for the hurt suffered by Maura & her family.) I have a preference for happy endings in books but I don't have to have the solution to this case match what I expect it to be. I get the feeling some people would be very unhappy indeed if the final solution turns out to be other than they expected. I do not know a final and complete solution at this time. I just moved as far down each possibility branch that I could think of & looked for ways to try to verify things.

[pugsley]

Docwho3,

I hope you change you mind (fast), I am very intrigued by your post.

[Peabody]

Docwho3,


I have not read your pm to Lillyrush.........it just seemed apparent to me that your opinion after reading the book had more to do with death and dying in the White Mountains than with the historical and geographical nature of the book, which by all accounts by those who know Maura, was what attracted her to the book.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.......I always enjoy your posts.




Bring Maura Home
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramurray.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramurray.html)

[docwho3]

Docwho3,


I have not read your pm to Lillyrush.........it just seemed apparent to me that your opinion after reading the book had more to do with death and dying in the White Mountains than with the historical and geographical nature of the book, which by all accounts by those who know Maura, was what attracted her to the book.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.......I always enjoy your posts.




Bring Maura Home
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramurray.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramurray.html/)
Not sure how you got that idea since all I said was that I hesitated to post the info in public forum. However the death & dying parts of the book were not what I centered my attention on and I doubt those were the parts that Maura centered her thoughts on (but if anyone who reads the book thinks differently I could certainly understand. )

[hydemi]

Your post on Not Without Peril and links are first rate.

Both my Dartmouth son and I had read this book prior to 2/9/04 and we totally agree with your impresson of it being a huge favorite of North Country hikers and adventure seekers who love the area.

And actually having met Howe and getting his autograph speaks for itself.

I believe her nursing books being in the Saturn is a more important detail, especially in light of her apparent intention to leave U. Mass that week as I have just argued on the mauramurray.com website two days ago.

Why not leave the books in her room?

She wanted to keep up in case she decided to stay in school.

She did not want the books (quite valuable) to be stolen?

She might (I do not believe this) have been able to sell them for cash as well as the jewelry she brought with her (gift from boyfriend)?

Keep it simple--while she was intending to return to U. Mass and to withdraw that week, she was keeping her options open to stay and had her books.

[Grassyknoll2]

Tend to agree with Hydemi...big sticking point for me from the first I heard about Maura...why take your text books if you're a.)as police suggested, planning on comitting suicide b.) leaving school. Not sure just what books she may have had, but the fact is she had them and as Hydemi says, its important.

As to 'Not Without Peril'...I think way too much was made of the fact that it was in the car and a subtle way for police to suggest suicide....I have books in my car...had one on the self or whatever it is called in the back of my car near the window for years......it was meaningless...I had bought it and never even read it....faded...its probably still in my car somewhere.

I would like to read DocWho's impressions, though...surely they could be shared without revealing the book itself. Read the reviews of the book at the link posted above...seems Maura fit right in with those who loved it...a hiker, familiar with the area and had also met the author....presumably since she was a nursing student she also had medical text books...as I said, I think too much was implied by police about this book...just by mentioning it...why not give the names of the text books or whatever other books she might have had with her.

[docwho3]

I plan to post a few posts today about the case. I doubt I could get the whole thing in one post. I compromised about the amount of space I devoted to the book but I think I can sort of account for the school books and to some degree why some things were taken & why some left behind. I know my impressions may not agree with everyone but hopefully no one will lob rocks at me over it - lol.

Anyway I will try to post them in order and then the last one will say

*******************
End workup
*******************

[docwho3]

Maura Murray disappeared on February 9th/2004 in New Hampshire. (www.mauramurray.com)

Maura had disappeared after a one vehicle wreck on a winter evening about 7:30 pm within 10
minutes of having been seen & talked to by a witness, a school bus driver named
Butch Atwood who was driving his bus home. (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt) Maura allegedly said she had already called AAA and so refused help.

A different person, a neighbor (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt) called police. I have not seen much mention of this 'neighbor' person and I wonder how they knew to call police if they had not spoken to Maura. This detail is not significant but it is one of those lose ends that I would like to tie up.

Within 10 minutes of being called the police were there but Maura was not. (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt)

This case would be more straightforward if the investigation had turned up no other details. . . but they did turn up details that make it seem there is more to this case more than first meets the eye.
This was Maura's 2nd car wreck within a few days. (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt) Without the details of the first wreck I don't know if alcohol was involved. Info revealed later might make one wonder if the first car wreck might have been a suicide attempt. But even if it turns out that it was an attempt it does not of itself convince me that she later ended her own life.

Maura had pulled money from her bank account (www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/abddb07bf) prior to her disappearance (about $280 (www.vnews.com/07142004/1860848.htm))

continued in next post

[docwho3]

It was reported that on Thursday (ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt) before she disappeared (on the following Monday)Maura received a call that reportedly upset her very much. This along with a few other facts seems to have convinced some that Maura meant to suicide. However, some reports say the call was between Maura & her sister. (www.ins-inc.net/maura/leavitt/) and afterwards Maura told some people she had to leave to attend to a death (www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/abddb07bf) in the family.

Although some reports stated that the email & voice mail recieved on Monday that Maura sent to her boyfriend had not indicated anything wrong this was contradicted in an interview transcript of AMERICAN MORNING (transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0402/17/ltm.03.html)
conducted by SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR stated that the voice mail was indeed very disturbing.

The relationship was said to be good between Maura & her boyfriend but this info was quoted from boyfriends mother (http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/26/41f802f9653c2) who also admitted there had been some rocky times between Maura & boyfriend in times past. Most couples have troubles from time to time so by itself it isn't all that significant unless more troubles had surfaced that we don't know about.

What was left behind in the car when Maura disappeared?: I read reports that said there was a box of booze bootles left behind with some missing from them. "Another neighbor called police, who arrived within minutes. They found the bag, some bottles of alcohol, and that was it." (source link) (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt)
What else was left behind?: "Clothes, CDs, makeup and a copy of ‘‘Not Without Peril,'' journalist Nicholas Howe's story about people who died hiking New Hampshire's Presidential Mountain Range." (source link) (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt)

"The chapter of Howe's book titled ‘‘A Question of Life or Death'' is book-marked with a Hallmark card and a photograph of Maura's brother Kurtis in a Little League uniform. Kathleen Murray got emotional looking it."
(source link) (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt)

Note to readers: I have read the book. I will say more about the book later in this workup but it contains more than just death.

Behind in her dorm she had left her things packed as if to soon be moved. (source link) (http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/26/41f802f9653c2)

Continued in next post

[docwho3]

Maura Murray's fate could be any one of several possibilities. While I do not have a final solution, that was not my goal at this time. Instead I strove to look at the various possibilities and see what could be done to provide suggestions to help point to more answers which in turn might help.

Lets take the simplest possibility branches first:
From the moment Maura stepped out of the car and into
the twilight zone there are only two.
The possibilities are:
1. Either she is dead
2.or Maura is alive.

1. If she is dead then there are three main possibilities.

1.A.She was kidnapped & murdered

1.B.She committed suicide
(Note to readers: I use numbers for Major topics and Upper case letters to denote major subtopics and lower case letters to denote further subtopics within the major subtopic. I hope it isn't too confusing.)

1.C.She was injured and wandered off to die in the nearby
countryside.

1.A. She was kidnapped & murdered:
1.A.Is there any evidence that she was kidnapped?
1.A.a.One of our other websleuths has told me that on the night that
Maura disappeared one of the witnesses thought there might
have been two police cars that showed up right away but that
later the other car was not proven to have been part of the
investigation.

I have to say that I never saw any MSM reports that confirmed such a car ever existed BUT that does not mean it did not exist. I am just being careful about stating sources.
About the alleged car:If it existed and was not a real police car is that a far fetched possibility? Not really too far fetched since I was able to find several instances of people using fake police cars related to that area. (I posted several links to such info in a previous post in this thread.) Suggestion to verify:maybe a private investigator could work
up a lead more concrete to be tracked. If some of these fake police cars seem to be crossing state lines perhaps FBI might be interested if there is a solid lead to look at.

1.A.b.What about the bus driver possibly abducting Maura?
He had some opportunity to do so and if no other witness existed I would be very interested in this angle of the case.
BUT there was another witness that night. So unless this other witness was either not paying attention at all & the bus driver was a real risk taker in knowing his neighbor could be seeing or unless the two were working together then I don't see this as a likely thing. I can't rule it out 100% yet.

Suggest: A thorough background work up by private investigator could possibly help if he has a past. I don't think he took a lie detector test but it might help ease the family concerns if he had done so.

1.A.c.What if she was picked up by a stranger who offered her a ride?
There was only a narrow window of time for a stranger to pass through and pick her up so although I can not rule it out, I also can't rule it in on the available evidence. With the bus driver & also a neighbor present It is not impossible to have happened but their presence makes it less likely. Likely or not it is still possible until ruled out. I just do not know
how to rule that out at this time short of finding Maura.

continued in next post

[docwho3]

1.B.She committed suicide:
1.B.a. Could she have committed suicide? It is possible but the area was allegedly searched by air & by dogs & volunteers more than once. Maura's own father, who knows her hiking abilities best, searched the area.
while it is not impossible that her body was still missed it is less likely now than if her dad himself had not searched.

1.B.b.Could a friend have just picked her up and taken her to some place
where she could quietly suicide? It is possible but with no body turning up I would tend to discount this angle, especially since she left a particular book in the car. This book,Not Without Peril, was,I believe, meant to be used for
another purpose given the chapter marked and the fact that she brought her school books with her. Until I read Not Without Peril the school books, although explainable, were a puzzle since there were surely other things she had left
packed in her dorm that would normally be chosen over schools books to bring to a suicide.

1.B.c.She took over $200 cash with her. "You can't take it with you." so why withdraw so much of it? And why not close out the account unless she had not made up your mind completely?
Conclusion: She never intended to suicide. She packed clothing & took cash money but did not close the account and she left an excuse that was supposed to indicate she would soon return and she packed up her dorm as if to move it soon and she walked away from a car wreck but no body was ever found. None of these things indicate suicide to me
especially in light of the book with a special chapter & the schoolbooks she took with her.
More on that part later in this workup.

1.C.She was injured and wandered off to die in the nearby countryside:
1.C.a.What if she wandered off and died after the accident? Was there perhaps some injury either from the previous wreck or from the current wreck that might have caused her to wander off hurt and then die? I find this to be plausible but no body was found. Why was no body found? Well, it could be that searching eyes
just failed to see her body. If so then someday the body will be found. Could anything else have made her body hard to find? Having pondered this I have thought it remotely possible that her great physical conditioning as a "standout"
track athlete from highschool days might have enabled her to go much farther than the ground search went. I was never able to know for sure how far on the ground searchers went on foot looking for her. To know how far to search one would need to know her current state of athletic condition at the time. Some track runners could easily walk/jog for many miles. I figure her father would know her abilities and perhaps some of her college friends might know if she was still active in running alot.
Suggestion:Those who know should say if the search on the ground went far enough
for Maura's abilities or not. If it did not go far enough that might need to be redone.

1.C.b.If Maura had indeed jogged/walked a long way while being injured where might she go?
The only thing that came to mind for me was perhaps a familiar climb/hike or a recent one
would still be fresh in her memory. She might,if confused, think she was back in the middle
of that climb/hike and go forward a certain distance then turn at exactly the distance and places
as she had in the real hike/climb (like overlaying an internal map over the real terrain but wrong since
she was not really at the same exact location as the real event) and continue on until the elements
got to her.
Suggestion:If a ground search did not take this into account it might be tried.
Conclusion: This scenario does not fit with the totality of the rest of the facts in the case so I tend
to discount it unless further search indicates differently.

Continued in next post

[docwho3]

2.If Maura is alive:
2.A.a.What if Maura was not kidnapped but chose to disappear?
If she chose to disappear: Was the plan a last minute thing only meant to be temporary? There is
some evidence to suggest that she meant to disappear but only meant to be gone a short while.
Maura had pulled money from her bank account (www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/abddb07bf) prior to her disappearance (about $280 (www.vnews.com/07142004/1860848.htm))
but did not close out the account.
It was reported that on Thursday (ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt) before she disappeared (on the following Monday)Maura received a call that reportedly upset her very much. This along with a few other facts seems to have convinced some that Maura meant to suicide. However, some reports say the call was between Maura & her sister. (www.ins-inc.net/maura/leavitt/) and afterwards Maura told some people she had to leave to attend to a death (www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/abddb07bf) in the family.

Conclusion: I do not think the plan was to temporarily disappear. Obviously she has remained gone.

Maura used an excuse that has been attempted by young people in years past to cover a temporary absence from work, sometimes to attend mardi gras, sometimes to go drinking etc. The idea is usually to cover yourself so you can return to your job later. It (death-in-the-family) was a common ploy way back when I began working many years ago (but it seldom works.) This death-in the-family excuse fails precisely because employers make you provide a program paper from the funeral, a newspaper clipping of the obituary listing you as immediate family and sometimes a signed note from the funeral director or pastor who performed the service. Maura was a junior year nursing student (not a highschool kid)and I doubt she was simple minded enough to have tried to seriously use such an excuse if she truly expected to return to work again. Her knowing this ploy would fail is nice to believe since it fits my impression of things but is not crucial to the case,as I see it, at this time. The thing this particular ploy told me about the case was that it was a staged detail. She could easily have used some other excuse that would better protect her job.

The nature of the call, Maura's reaction to it or both was probably faked by Maura to bolster her excuse for leaving. All faking it would require is for Maura, on her end of the call, to appear to weep and shake while talking on the phone. Her caller on the other end (if there really was a call at that time- there was some dispute about that) might even be innocent & not know what Maura looked like on the other end of that call. (Note to reader:This faking does not make Maura a bad person and I am sure this isn't the first time a young lady faked something over a phone.)

continued in next post

[docwho3]

Maura was planning to go somewhere since she took most of her bank account with her but she did not close out the account entirely which makes it seem she planned to leave the door open for her to return and this is important when taken into account with the fake temporary excuse. I believe these were both staged details meant to buy her time so she could disappear and not return. These things were meant to cause the L.E. (Law Enforcement) to consider this a temporary adult runaway type of thing and cause people to not take the case seriously enough to catch her before she got far enough away.

She packed up the stuff in her room but did not take it with her yet so if she intended to return to her room for the rest of her things something prevented her doing that. Could she have just been planning suicide? Sure, but you don't need to clean out most of your bank funds to do that. You take cash from bank because its not traceable and/or it is easy to spend on a bender. If you're going away forever why not take your cash with you? But more importantly $280 or so is about the right amount to take on a bender for a few days. . . . another staged detail.

I think this "escape to a new life" was a dream that became a cherished fantasy that started slowly and built over time until it became more real to her than her everyday life. Maura is not bad person or pedophile but I use this next example to explain what I think happened to her thought process: With predators & pedophiles a fantasy builds & builds until it is acted upon and they can't control themselves to not act upon it. In Maura's case she was not a sinister person but I think she had a similar build up of her escape fantasy until it consumed her to the point that she acted upon it to escape. Perhaps a psychiatrist could do more to tell of the possibility of that happening to someone.

I think every time she had to do something like clean up her room or study or watch her language or anything that stressed her she would dream of escaping to a new life. This would be similar to an over worked office worker dreaming of a long vacation in the Bahamas. Only in Maura's case I think the dream kept building and building until she began to act on it a little at a time. I suspect she got a new name and then one day she got a new document using the new name and then another & another of the documents you need to establish your new person and be able get a new job, and then on another day, maybe weeks or months later, she got a bank account and then maybe she set out to hunt for a new job. Maybe she got one.

I think one day she realized that she had a complete plan fantasized and had even managed to build it into a reality with a "new person" with a new life waiting as if on the other side of the looking glass. All she had to do was to plan how to stage the final scene and step through the looking glass into a new life.

Continued in next post

[docwho3]

I think the plan was to set up her disappearance to look as if it was a temporary one so as to buy time to get far enough away and not be hauled back in disgrace. She used an excuse that seems temporary on the surface but one that could not in reality have much chance of having saved her job. If she already had another bank account with funds in it she would not really need her cash from the old bank account but taking the amount she did made it look like she was only on a bender & also looked like she intended to soon return because she did not close it out.

She packed up her things to move, expecting to have more time to return for them before anyone tumbled to her disappearance. She took only the things with her when she left that would be needed to stage her disappearance.
She had wanted to get a hotel or motel room which she would allow her to set up a display of certain items that would send the message that she was not returning ever. She did not take the other dorm things because she did not plan to leave them at the rented room with the display. She planned to take the other dorm things to her new escape place.

The display she intended to leave at the rented room included bottles of booze, some tylenol PM, her schoolbooks, a book from her dad marked with a particular chapter,Halmark type card and a picture of her brother.
I think she had a friend who was helping her disappear & she knew this person was to follow her and pick her up after setting up the goodbye display and then take her to where her new car (her car she bought to escape to new life in - probably a used car.) Having a friend pick her up from the rented room (or wherever she planned to stage the goodbye scene) & take her to her waiting car was better since it kept her from having to preposition her new car at the hotel place and possibly have someone remember having seen it.
A car is what would be used in place of a bus ticket if she had planned this out over a long period of time. Bus tickets are a last minute type thing that say little planning has been done and would not be worthy of her elaborate escape fantasy. The cold-feet-bride in the news awhile back used a bus ticket to escape & came home when she ran out of money because she had no plan to provide other resources.

Even though Maura planned to set up this final goodbye display the accident made this impossible since she was seen by witnesses who would soon be calling police inspite of her attempt to dissuade a witness from doing so.
She had probably been drinking since even though escape was her long cherished dream it was still a very big step to take, requiring liquid courage, and also some of the bottles of booze were needed to set up the final goodbye display.
She had only minutes to perhaps grab up her backpack and walk back the way she came to meet her friend who had been driving behind her. She left the book and other items behind but was prevented from ever setting up her special display as she had planned. She was also prevented from ever going back to her dorm to get her things because now instead of buying time she had nearly botched her escape by the accident & had drawn attention to herself in the process.

Continued in next post

[docwho3]

Ok now some additional facts to mix in with my impressions of this case:
**************************************
The chapter of Nicholas Howe's book,Not Without Peril, which Mara had marked with a card was titled "A Question of Life or Death'' is book-marked with a Hallmark card and a photograph of Maura's brother Kurtis in a Little League uniform.

The intro to that chapter reads (I bolded parts for emphasis & transcribed as best I could. Please forgive any typos):
"We try to make our lives safe. For every hazard there are warnings and barriers,for every bold assertion there are fallback positions,for every fallible device there are back-up systems and redundancies. Children go forth to play girded with armor for their head,face,teeth,elbows,knees, and any other part that may suffer assault. I've seen a step ladder with eighteen warning labels pasted to it,another with a six part lesson on how to avoid falling off, with attendant diagrams. If all else fails we go to court;when a piece of bridge masonry fell through the top of a convertible,the driver sued the car company for making a cloth top that wouldn't keep out falling masonry. So when we talk about questions of life or death, we usually don't mean it.

There do come times,though,perhaps only once in a lifetime,when we're really up against it,when there're no manual or guide or precedent,when we really do have to answer a question of life or death. The crew at Madison Hut had to do that one evening just as they were serving dinner to a full house,they were all college age and they were up against it."
************************************
I think the intro tells why she brought the college books- to show they did not hold the answers to her need to escape.
The booze and the tylenol were to be left to show she could have suicided but chose not to do so. It was to say she felt she had to escape or die. Incidentally, the chapter that Maura Murray marked was about some people whose decisions all along the way could have changed their outcome between life or death and at one point they come to a trail that branches off in seven directions (pg 224).

Maura must have planned to stage a rented room with the Not Without Peril book & its bookmarks and the booze bottles & tylenol center stage, probably on the bed, and maybe the college books staged around in a circle or something.

Then she planned to have her friend follow a few minutes behind & pick her up and take her to her car so she could make her getaway and maybe have friend return to the room to retrieve her belongings. But the accident made those steps impossible to implement.

Instead her friend just picks her up on the road near the accident scene & takes her to her new waiting car and she is gone, seemingly without a trace. You might say Alice has stepped through the looking glass.
(Edited to add: When you dont' trust your car because its not running well you might well ask a friend to follow you when you have to move the car very far. I read that Maura's car wasn't running well & that would account for her having a friend follow her exact route only a few minutes behind- in case the car should break down.)

All of this is overly elaborate planning, which is in keeping with the long time fantasy theory.
In mild support of that theory: I read that one of her favorite movies was about someone who disappears to begin a new life. Maybe that's related or maybe not. But its a thought.

I think I have accounted for why she took the things she took with her in the car that night when she disappeared and why other things were not taken from the dorm but were left behind packed & ready.

I don't have a final solution but my overall impression at this time is that Maura is alive and that she may have suffered from a sort of mental condition that made her obsess about her escape fantasy until she was compelled to implement it and step through the looking glass.

She was involved with a one car accident where alcohol was present and she left the scene (as far as we can tell based on news reports.) I can not say when or if she will ever return. I think she probably did not go anywhere in the north but it is not impossible. I think she probably changed her hair color - maybe blonde? and that she probably went to be near a border of the U.S. probably someplace nice and warm and no mountains- the opposite of what she had been used to. But thats just speculation as is much of what I have presented here. At least I based that speculation on what few facts I had to work with.

That's all there is so far. I hope it helps.


Minor note:
Suggestion:One way to test whether Maura would likely have known that this ploy would not have worked is to actually have a student there take a survey of junior nursing students (without letting them know its in any way related to Maura's disappearance) and ask the junior level college students what they think would happen if they tried to use that excuse to go on a bender from work. And to ask them how the employer would or would not check up on that excuse.

(Side note about the mardi gras part of the reason for using the death-in-the-family excuse: I noticed the search for her possibly being in hotels was hampered by the fact that "All the hotels are full this weekend because we have Mardi Gras." (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/02/21/father_of_missing_woman_frustrated_with_search_107 7401746/))

*************************
End of Workup
*************************

[hydemi]

I lean toward believing Maura is alive, but for different reasons.

I would urge Doc first to familiarize himself more with the mauramurray.com website especially the CaseInfo timeline put up the weekend of Oct 15th, as well as the detailed and informed discussions.

Some points.

1) there was a PI hired early on by the Murray family who interviewed some of the witnesses and neighbors.

2) Maura set her high school record for two mile run in a time of 11.40, was used to running cold weather, and had kept running on her own even after quitting the track team at U. Mass (she had two jobs, clinicals, etc).

3) Was the $280 all she had saved from the two jobs (art gallery, campus dorm security)? Possibly, if she had extra expenses above her scholarship in the nursing program which she had to cover, as opposed to the full program at West Point.

If she had more money to siphon into a second account, why not get her car repaired instead of spending the weekend with her Dad looking for another used car (an older Corolla?) which he was helping her to buy?

There is no evidence of a confederate thus far; no evidence of a second car following her (such as cellphone contact); no indication of planning for her trip beyond checking her computer for resort info at Burlington & Stowe, and calling a condo rental phone number on Monday in Bartlett NH.

Her favorite movie "Bottle Rocket" (according to her U Mass friend) is about teens escaping and running away from an asylum, then supporting themselves with petty thefts. But they either get caught or go back home and it's funny.

Hard to construct parallels to Maura's disappearance in this movie.

[docwho3]

I lean toward believing Maura is alive, but for different reasons.

I would urge Doc first to familiarize himself more with the mauramurray.com website especially the CaseInfo timeline put up the weekend of Oct 15th, as well as the detailed and informed discussions.I assume by that you mean there is information on the site to lead to a different conclusion in parts of this workup. Feel free to message me with the pertinent points. Thanks.

I did go to the site and used their links to lead to news reports on the case but I had not paid much attention to the discussion parts yet.

Some points.

1) there was a PI hired early on by the Murray family who interviewed some of the witnesses and neighbors.Yes, I knew that about the P.I. from published news reports in msm but I don't know ALL the info that was gleaned and so I suggested that certain questions be looked into just to be thorough.
(I would be surprised if all the info was released by the P.I. to be placed on the website.)

2) Maura set her high school record for two mile run in a time of 11.40, was used to running cold weather, and had kept running on her own even after quitting the track team at U. Mass (she had two jobs, clinicals, etc). Cool! So, my question would be how far could she go by a walk jog combo? (I know from my own ancient track days that even sprinters would jog/walk/run for far longer distances than their actual competition events.) And my next question would be:Was that max distance all searched on foot rather than doing some just by air?

3) Was the $280 all she had saved from the two jobs (art gallery, campus dorm security)? Possibly, if she had extra expenses above her scholarship in the nursing program which she had to cover, as opposed to the full program at West Point.

If she had more money to siphon into a second account, why not get her car repaired instead of spending the weekend with her Dad looking for another used car (an older Corolla?) which he was helping her to buy?Maybe or maybe not bearing in mind that she had jewelry and also she could have found a job that she hadn't yet started. Some jobs such as nurse aide pay a sign on bonus. As to why she didn't get her car repaired:It would be looked for when she left so it had to be left behind. Not worth paying to fix it for just a one way trip to where she planned to have it found.

There is no evidence of a confederate thus far; no evidence of a second car following her (such as cellphone contact); no indication of planning for her trip beyond checking her computer for resort info at Burlington & Stowe, and calling a condo rental phone number on Monday in Bartlett NH. (Edited to add: Actually a call was also reported in news reports as placed to another dorm room.) I submit that the accomplished act itself is a kind of evidence that planning was involved. Furthermore, the presence of a second car following her is implied given the facts. No evidence has been found? Well, actually it was reported in news reports that some cars did go by during that time. I just proposed that an accomplice was more likely to have hit that narrow time window when Maura was on that spot in the road than a total and evil stranger. And the car running poorly certainly makes it likely that her accomplice would be requested to take the exact same route.
Her favorite movie "Bottle Rocket" (according to her U Mass friend) is about teens escaping and running away from an asylum, then supporting themselves with petty thefts. But they either get caught or go back home and it's funny.
Hard to construct parallels to Maura's disappearance in this movie.Well, you possibly have a point there and that movie in itself is not all that important to the over all theory. Then again, I was not drawing a parallel to the plot of the movie but was commenting on the fact that things involving disappearances did seemed to catch her attention. Actually the minor thievery you mentioned in the plot makes me even more inclined to think it might be attractive to someone with a fantasy about being opposite to what she had been. Whatever the relation or lack thereof between the movie and Maura's disappearance I am glad that she had a chance to laugh.

I realize that the accomplice has never surfaced and may never do so for all I know. But this helpers presence is in the facts much like a shadow tells the presence of the something obstructing the suns light. You may not see that object but the shadow tells you of the objects existence.

[hydemi]

I do think you are onto something or I would not have replied so carefully.

Getting up to speed on the MM website probably will not change your inklings or conclusions, but there is an awful lot there to digest.

Especially it is important to understand the family's view that they know of no reasons for her to run away and cannot otherwise fathom her failing to contact anyone than her being murdered by a predator. This is negative reasoning, I know, but I respect their viewpoint and deeply sympathize.

The PI (Stevens in Northampton Ma?) seems to have dropped from view.

A poster who is a professional searcher, SearcherME for Maine on this website and SMME on the Maura website, says in mid May 04 that he spent a weekend going from the 116 area(where she was allegedly seen) all the way to Lincoln much on foot, going down side roads etc.

Mr Murray and family members and volunteer searchers like SMME have been up and down the road many times.

Your theory about the second account and her having siphoned off money would be a blockbuster if true. Her boyfriend says somewhere that she was "extremely frugal" and so it seems in character for her to squirrel money.

Peabody says somewhere I think on this site that the second phone call on Monday afternoon was to the other nursing student with whom Maura was sharing a ride to clinicals because of her 96 Saturn being unreliable.

As to the confidante or accomplice, on 9/9/04 in the U Mass Daily Collegian Det. Scarinza of NHSP is quoted as saying that he is hoping someone from U Mass will come forward with information on the case, as evidently he had been pursuing this angle to support his runaway theory.

Oh, and according to Scarinza in his June 04 case summary there were five helicopter air searches with snow on the ground in Feb 04, with good visibility thanks to the two and half feet of snow (of tracks etc) and four ground searches in the immediate vicinity.

In mid July 04 there was a ground search again, reported in the Manchester Union Leader and other papers.

Lastly, one detail omitted in your theory is her promise/intention to contact her boyfriend and her Dad that evening. Of course had she made it to Bartlett or her destination and done so, we do not know what she was intending to talk about other than the 1st car accident or her leaving school.

[docwho3]

I do think you are onto something or I would not have replied so carefully. . . .Thank you for being so kind in your responses! If I sounded mean spirited in my own responses it was not meant to sound that way and I apologize.

I did mean to respond in a thinking and reasoning manner about questions concerning certain points of the write up but I never meant to sound angry or mean about it. If I did sound that way I apologize. And again I thank you for being kind and reasoned in your own responses.

Getting up to speed on the MM website probably will not change your inklings or conclusions, but there is an awful lot there to digest.You are right. There is alot to digest and that's why I asked if you knew of any pertinent posts I should look at & could message me about them. I tend to be a bit lazy at times especially when I have already read through what seems like mountains of news articles and so many posts both here and elsewhere. And then because the posting requirements here at websleuths don't accept another blog or web forum as a valid source I tended to just skim through or not read some of the forums rather than to read every scrap of info. However, since you seem to feel it is important in this case and I respect you,your thoughts and your thoughtful responses, I will try to find time soon to go read posts there.

Especially it is important to understand the family's view that they know of no reasons for her to run away and cannot otherwise fathom her failing to contact anyone than her being murdered by a predator. This is negative reasoning, I know, but I respect their viewpoint and deeply sympathize.I do understand that family would feel that way and actually, given what I believe to have been Maura's mental state, it fits right in with what I would expect. But I will still read the posts as you requested.

The PI (Stevens in Northampton Ma?) seems to have dropped from view. I would be very interested in what happened.

A poster who is a professional searcher, SearcherME for Maine on this website and SMME on the Maura website, says in mid May 04 that he spent a weekend going from the 116 area(where she was allegedly seen) all the way to Lincoln much on foot, going down side roads etc.

Mr Murray and family members and volunteer searchers like SMME have been up and down the road many times.Up and down the road is good but I was hoping there had been foot search in the area of a circle with the radius being her max wlk/jog/run distance. If that was not done then we can't 100% rule out the possibility of a body being out there somewhere yet.

Your theory about the second account and her having siphoned off money would be a blockbuster if true. Her boyfriend says somewhere that she was "extremely frugal" and so it seems in character for her to squirrel money.Thank you for that info!

Peabody says somewhere I think on this site that the second phone call on Monday afternoon was to the other nursing student with whom Maura was sharing a ride to clinicals because of her 96 Saturn being unreliable. I also had read that somewhere and so it fits in with an accomplice being asked to follow along behind. I wonder if that person was the one or if she had to find someone else to follow her. It would seem to be something worth looking into.

As to the confidante or accomplice, on 9/9/04 in the U Mass Daily Collegian Det. Scarinza of NHSP is quoted as saying that he is hoping someone from U Mass will come forward with information on the case, as evidently he had been pursuing this angle to support his runaway theory. . .Thank you again for that info!

Lastly, one detail omitted in your theory is her promise/intention to contact her boyfriend and her Dad that evening. Of course had she made it to Bartlett or her destination and done so, we do not know what she was intending to talk about other than the 1st car accident or her leaving school.
I did leave out that detail (but not on purpose.) It did not seem important to me at the time because she could have staged the disappearance & got her stuff all moved and still have made a phone call to them. Whether that call would have been made or not would be her choice. If she had made the call she could have sounded as if things were normal if she felt the need to keep them from suspecting so soon. But she could also easily have failed to make the calls at all. When they came looking she and her stuff would have all been gone.

But the clues left behind in her bank account and her excuse would have been the first things found and those would have indicated an overwrought young lady just taking a few days off. And remember, she had spoken to her fiance saying she was upset about the car wreck and it took quite some time for him to calm her down (Thats from an msm report.) So she had in effect set him up to believe that she was upset so he might also then believe she had left only for a few days to regroup- in light of the bank account info and work excuse info being found.

I think the plan was to have the room with the staged goodbye scene be found later. Perhaps someone would tip it from a payphone. I don't know.

In either case Maura would have been long gone by then according to plan.

The accident seems to have been what messed up her time table and uncovered things to the degree that it has. If she had not had the wreck & not been thought to be missing for even a day or two longer and if she had made the expected phone calls that night would anyone have even thought to look at her phone calls to that one dorm room in the preceding days when she was thought to be still "found" and still ok? And if they had looked at calls way back then would the significance of that one call have even stood out to anyone? I doubt it. I think that wreck was a Godsend to the parents & family.

[murraydwyer]

While I respect the amount of time and thought you have put into thinking about Maura's case (especially after reading of your own family trials), I strongly disagree with your conclusions...although, I can only hope that they are accurate.

I can't and won't speak for Maura...I don't know her, I don't know what might have upset her beyond her pressing schedule and the accident with her dad's car, and I don't know how her mind might have worked in a given situation.

Although I was a bit more daring at Maura's age (aren't we all), I can't imagine that, if I were planning on starting a new life, I would have done some of the things you assume Maura did. Her car hadn't been working well, why not just leave it in the lot at school, buy a ticket to one place and then go to another at another bus depot. Amherst is a University town...the University provides bus service to the town and other areas where buses are available to many places. Abandoning the car whether she had an accident or not is the one thing that would have hastened the contact with her father, putting him on notice that something was off...it was registered in his name. Regardless of where it was abandoned, it would have been noticed within a few days.

I don't know what Maura's financial arrangements were in terms of scholarship and what that scholarship paid for or how much her family helped, but I do have an idea of what campus jobs at UMass pay....not much...and I do not believe Maura was working full time even with two jobs. I seriously doubt that she was able to 'squirrel' away much money. According to your scenario, she would probably have needed quite a bit of money...especially if she were buying a new car, attempting to establish a new identity...police can and presumably have checked her social security earnings....her license was not renewed, her credit cards have not been used. She has no degree to fall back on, not even a high school diploma. You can't even open a bank account without an id these days, so if she had opened another bank account, there would be a record.

As a woman, I find your scenario very difficult to fathom. Having taken time off to raise children (even with part time jobs in between), I am well aware of how difficult it is to make a living wage. Her background includes some nursing skills and chemical engineering...but what types of jobs are there in those fields that wouldn't require some kind of background check.

Lastly, her father who is one of the people who knows her far better than any of us, still goes to NH to try to find out what happened to Maura...is he being negative in his belief that something happened to Maura or realistic?

[docwho3]

While I respect the amount of time and thought you have put into thinking about Maura's case (especially after reading of your own family trials), I strongly disagree with your conclusions...although, I can only hope that they are accurate.I too hope that I am right because I also hope this can be resolved to Maura's happiness and that of her family. However, know this:I will try to help dig up any and all evidence that will help, even if that evidence totally trashes my own current impressions of the case.

I can't and won't speak for Maura...I don't know her, I don't know what might have upset her beyond her pressing schedule and the accident with her dad's car, and I don't know how her mind might have worked in a given situation. I don't think being upset is the cause and I don't think the family should feel that they are in any way to blame either. I think this is a condition that built up as a sort of a compulsive type thing that left her no choice at that time. I think it might be very important to know what sort of things happen in such cases and what things might be done in public or published to somehow reach her. That would need the consultation of a specialist to help her family take the steps most likely to lead to Maura coming home. The problem is that I am unsure which specialist psychiatrist would have expertise in this area. I do know that adult runaways happen and that there are probably doctors that have had to deal with those cases. Possibly the FBI might have trained people that could advise or help profile and give pointers on what to do. (I am somewhat ignorant of what exactly the FBI would be willing to do for the family in a sort of consultant role as long as it did not intrude upon local L.E. toes. . .so I am only guessing on the FBI help angle.)

Her car hadn't been working well, why not just leave it in the lot at school, buy a ticket to one place and then go to another at another bus depot. If her goal was to make people think she had only taken off for a few days to regroup then leaving the car at the school would only raise red flags to everyone. She had to move the car to buy her more time. Having it found at the place where a staged goodbye scene was set up would also be more mysterious,more baffling and would be a touch more artistic. I get the impression that Maura was a very creative artistic person in some ways although I don't know if she often demonstrated it to others.
I think I remember reading a poem she wrote (not 100% sure it was hers- I read so much stuff) and I think any poetry writer is an artist in the soul and that artistic side will show in little ways from time to time. Poet or not Maura seems to have a touch of art in this plan.


. . .Abandoning the car whether she had an accident or not is the one thing that would have hastened the contact with her father, putting him on notice that something was off...it was registered in his name. Regardless of where it was abandoned, it would have been noticed within a few days.
I think I just explained (above) why the car was meant to be left at the site of her staged goodbye. Yes, it would have been noticed in only a few days (probably either she or her helper would have tipped it to L.E. from a payphone by then) but I think thats all the time she needed. If you have a new life all set up and only need a few hours to gather your belongings and then drive to that place a few days is more than enough time.

Another note about why not to keep the car & just drive off with it: Maura would have soon been found since everyone would have been on the lookout for that car. Leaving the old car was important. Why not use a bus? People see you buy tickets and you might be recorded on a security camera buying a ticket. And what young person would dream of starting off in a sparkling new
life in a bus anyway? Ask lots of young people (from 20 to 23 yrs old) if they had a choice of having their own wheels or riding a bus everywhere and see how few actually choose the bus.

I don't know what Maura's financial arrangements were in terms of scholarship and what that scholarship paid for or how much her family helped, but I do have an idea of what campus jobs at UMass pay....not much...and I do not believe Maura was working full time even with two jobs. I seriously doubt that she was able to 'squirrel' away much money. According to your scenario, she would probably have needed quite a bit of money...especially if she were buying a new car, attempting to establish a new identity...Ok you are right, neither of us know how much her family gave her. Thats ok.
But you just said a few things in that same paragraph that I think are somewhat in error and which I will attempt to correct. (Please do not be offended as I am only trying to help by saying that.) You said " I seriously doubt that she was able to 'squirrel' away much money." But neither of us knows how long she had been saving up for this fantasy of hers to become reality. It might be wrong to assume she only began saving when she got work at college. My female cousins managed to save enough to buy a used car by the time they got to college age so it is not impossible to think Maura could also have save over a long period of time. It does not take all that much money to buy a used car if you aren't too picky.
Also I think in a previous post I mentioned that she might have even sold her jewelry if needbe or signed up with a job that paid some sort of sign-on-bonus. As to degrees needed:Last time I looked you could go online and buy a degree or two or three.

You also said: "According to your scenario, she would probably have needed quite a bit of money...especially if she were buying a new car, attempting to establish a new identity..."

Establishing a new identity isn't all that expensive. I did a simple websearch on it and found their are 2 main simple ways to do it. 1.You can just start using a new name or you can go to court and get a court order, usually for under $50 according to the info I read. It might take longer to mess with getting new ss# and birth certs issued but I hear thats not all that tough either. It might take a little time if done before college age but but at college age I would think in a college town it wouldnt take all that long. I am sure there are others who know more than I in this area and maybe one of them will post.


. . .police can and presumably have checked her social security earnings....her license was not renewed, her credit cards have not been used. She has no degree to fall back on, not even a high school diploma. You can't even open a bank account without an id these days, so if she had opened another bank account, there would be a record.As I said above, a new identity isn't all that hard to get according to what I was able to read. I suppose how deep you go in creating the new you might add some time to the issue but I don't see it as being impossible for Maura to do. Once you have the new you the old ID stuff is probably no longer needed. Did the police check? Probably so and maybe they even found it out. I do not know except that according to the majority of msm reports I read they seemed to continue believe this was only a willful missing person case. But without knowing the new ID and SS# (if she got a new number) I don't know what they would turn up and so can not comment on that with any certainty.

. . .As a woman, I find your scenario very difficult to fathom. Having taken time off to raise children (even with part time jobs in between), I am well aware of how difficult it is to make a living wage. Her background includes some nursing skills and chemical engineering...but what types of jobs are there in those fields that wouldn't require some kind of background check.Maura is single as far as we know, although marriage might be one quick way to get a new name, and so is only earning for herself not raising kids while working. The amount of college education she has had would enable her to do many jobs. She has probably had enough keyboarding to get an office job. And with her medical terminology, keyboarding (and she might even have possibly some medical coding skills) she could easily get a job in a medical records department without a background check. And I bet there are other office jobs she could get with just her generic keyboarding college skills.

. . .Lastly, her father who is one of the people who knows her far better than any of us, still goes to NH to try to find out what happened to Maura...is he being negative in his belief that something happened to Maura or realistic?It is not hard to believe that if he loves his daughter and has spent lots of time with her he would have an almost impossible time trying to understand how his daughter could leave him out of her life as if she was being cruel to him. That probably does not fit with his knwledge of her. He should not feel badly about her as I don't think she was able to choose to not leave. I can't prove that and it is mostly speculation unless she comes forward to prove things one way or the other.
Her dad should also not blame himself as I do not think anyone could have prevented what happened.

When you feel that you are confronted with believing that either a loved one chooses to leave you out of her life or that she is dead I think it may often seem that dead is the only alternative that makes sense. I am proposing a third alternative:that she might not have had a real choice due to some sort of mental condition.

[murraydwyer]

In response to something said in an earlier post, while searching for something totally unrelated, I found this on two different sites:

Entering adults into the national database (NCIC), is also limited. A report may be taken and an investigator will be assigned to all cases, but there are specific criterion for NCIC. If the missing person has a physical handicap or mental disability, if they are missing involuntarily, if they are a victim of a catastrophe or if they are in some way endangered, then the person can be placed into NCIC.
Mesa, Arizona - Missing Persons (http://www.ci.mesa.az.us/police/missing_persons/default.asp)
Friends and Families of Violent Crimes (http://www.fnfvcv.org/support.html)

At some point, Maura, in the New Hampshire State Police's opinion must have met the criterion: NCIC ID#: M-883793945 National Center for Missing Adults (http://www.theyaremissed.com)
They also went to her sisters house and took back all of the items from her car and impounded her car after it had been released.

[docwho3]

In response to something said in an earlier post, while searching for something totally unrelated, I found this on two different sites:

Entering adults into the national database (NCIC), is also limited. A report may be taken and an investigator will be assigned to all cases, but there are specific criterion for NCIC. If the missing person has a physical handicap or mental disability, if they are missing involuntarily, if they are a victim of a catastrophe or if they are in some way endangered, then the person can be placed into NCIC.
Mesa, Arizona - Missing Persons (http://www.ci.mesa.az.us/police/missing_persons/default.asp)
Friends and Families of Violent Crimes (http://www.fnfvcv.org/support.html)

At some point, Maura, in the New Hampshire State Police's opinion must have met the criterion: NCIC ID#: M-883793945 National Center for Missing Adults (http://www.theyaremissed.com/)
They also went to her sisters house and took back all of the items from her car and impounded her car after it had been released.
Thanks for the info.
Thats very interesting to know. Have they ever said to the family why they think she met the criteria?

[docwho3]

Why does the first picture at that site show her with what looks like blonde or blonde highlighted hair? http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200401157S

Interesting.

[pugsley]

Why does the first picture at that site show her with what looks like blonde or blonde highlighted hair? http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200401157S

Interesting.

Probably natural highlights from the sun. Or she could have had a suttle highlight done. I don't think she appears blonde. Why would that matter? Just curious.

By the way, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts on this. It was interesting to read a new angle.

Murraydwyer: Why would you say she did not have a high school diploma? Maybe it's early and I am misunderstanding you. You can't get into college without a H.S. diploma.

[murraydwyer]

I'm quite certain Maura does have a High School diploma, but the point I was trying to make is that, if ad DocWho suggests she had a new identity, she might be unable to produce a lot of back up info...like a high school diploma...making it more difficult to obtain a high-paying job.

I agree with you on the color of her hair. It could also be the lighting in the picture or the fact that it was summer and her hair might bleach out a bit. She definitely doesn't appear to be blonde...perhaps highlighted.

[docwho3]

Probably natural highlights from the sun. Or she could have had a suttle highlight done. I don't think she appears blonde. Why would that matter? Just curious.I just found the hair color in that photo interesting for 2 small reasons. 1. It was the color I had half heartedly guessed at her using in a previous post. That blonde curl at the back of the neck looks all blonde to me even though the rest looks more like highlights. 2.Although they had other pictures with darker hair on that site they used one with blonde or blonde highlights as the one at the top of the page so it is the first pic that you see. I don't think that was accidental,in fact from a webpage design standpoint I know it was not accidental, having had training in that area. I think they must suspect she has a lighter hair color now. The lighter color caught my attention for those two small reasons. I suppose it really isn't critical to anything though.

. . . .By the way, thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts on this. It was interesting to read a new angle. . . .You are welcome. I just hope it helps.

[CyberLaw]

docwho3:

Awesome post, excellent, keep up the great postings.......your logic and common sense are impressive.

In previous post I took your position in this matter that Maura "escaped" to a new life. BUT, apparently that was not a popular position to take, it is nice to know that you are using similar logic and reasoning as I, in regards to Maura "missing".

Do you know her "parents" wrote her off for dead, just a few months after she "went missing". I find that unusual......still.

As to the second car - logic and reasoning prevails, but there is no evidence to date supporting this fact. So it is safe to make a logical conclusion(assumption). But you are reaching a conclusion that has no direct basis in fact. But from Maura's personality, I could see her doing this, as not to take the chance to be stranded, with no backup. So I do see your point, but I am taking a neutral positon in regards to the second car.


I don't think Maura was "malingering" when she received the call at the Security Desk. I think this call was a further "stressor" in her life that lead up to the day she went missing.

In just a few days: Maura 'broke down" at the security desk,(Thursday/5) went to a "small get together" on Saturday night(7), left the get together in the wee hours of Sunday morning(8), smashed her Dad's new car,(8) had to tell Dad that Sunday afternoon/evening about the car that had several K worth of damage(8). Then I am sure he was not pleased, (especially considering the time in the wee hours of the A.M. that this happened)and Maura made plans that evening to leave school, she was looking for map directions at midnight or so on Sunday(8). She left on Monday(9).

All of the events combined, in total lead one to beleive that she planned on leaving this "stressful" life and start a new one with less drama.

[pugsley]

I'm quite certain Maura does have a High School diploma, but the point I was trying to make is that, if ad DocWho suggests she had a new identity, she might be unable to produce a lot of back up info...like a high school diploma...making it more difficult to obtain a high-paying job.

I agree with you on the color of her hair. It could also be the lighting in the picture or the fact that it was summer and her hair might bleach out a bit. She definitely doesn't appear to be blonde...perhaps highlighted.


Thanks for clarifying, I understand now what you were trying to say.

[docwho3]

First, Thankyou for the kind words. You did indeed post that she had escaped to a new life. And as I read archived posts, it did also seem that there was some clashing of personalities at that time. It is very hard to communicate well with people and harder when concerned with a subject where views often differ.

As to the extra car I posted about: That's good. Its always best to keep an open mind about stuff. Since I think the plan was to leave the old car behind at the goodbye scene and yet also return to take her dorm room stuff with her I think she would need a way to transport that stuff to her new place. If her new place was to be only a short distance away then a friend might easily have tossed it all in a car or van and moved it for her but if she was moving far like to New Mexico or Texas then I see the dorm room stuff as being a problem to transport on a bus and yet she clearly packed the stuff to be moved.

As to the family reaction to her disappearance:I respect your intelligence and I will keep your thoughts in mind about it but at this point I don't yet see any reason to pursue that line. I think their attitude is even understandable. Although I am beginning to notice a few more things about this case that may help me have a better understanding of Maura and her family(None of that is sinister.) Mostly just stuff that gives an idea of the personality that goes with the name. Its just that I am outside looking in and also looking back in time, to some degree so those extra details help. A few of the people in this case are beginning to take color and form in my mind like a character in a book being written becomes more real as you write more. That may not be important to anyone other than myself but it helps me feel a bit more personal satisfaction.

Note to readers: I read in a forum on the Maura website that she had suddenly left another college before disappearing from this one. Does anyone have details about that? Did she disappear from family at that time also or what? Or is that something that in fact never happened? Any of the above answers is fine with me as I just want to learn the truth. Thanks.


docwho3:

Awesome post, excellent, keep up the great postings.......your logic and common sense are impressive.

In previous post I took your position in this matter that Maura "escaped" to a new life. BUT, apparently that was not a popular position to take, it is nice to know that you are using similar logic and reasoning as I, in regards to Maura "missing".

Do you know her "parents" wrote her off for dead, just a few months after she "went missing". I find that unusual......still.

As to the second car - logic and reasoning prevails, but there is no evidence to date supporting this fact. So it is safe to make a logical conclusion(assumption). But you are reaching a conclusion that has no direct basis in fact. But from Maura's personality, I could see her doing this, as not to take the chance to be stranded, with no backup. So I do see your point, but I am taking a neutral positon in regards to the second car.

I think after Maura smashed her Father's car after a "small campus" get together in the wee hours in the A.M., this was the weekend that he was in town to buy her a car, so after several K damage to his new car, I think any parents would "think" twice about their child's behaviour and choices in regards to a car accident(especially my new car), and I would maybe say:

So after smashing my car, do you really expect me to "reward" this behaviour by buying you or helping you buy a new car.

Especially if the person is a high achiever, track star etc.......and an adult

I would not be plesed, would be an understatement......

I don't think Maura was "malingering" when she received the call at the Security Desk. I think this call was a further "stressor" in her life that lead up to the day she went missing.

In just a few days: Maura 'broke down" at the security desk,(Thursday/5) went to a "small get together" on Saturday night(7), left the get together in the wee hours of Sunday morning(8), smashed her Dad's new car,(8) had to tell Dad that Sunday afternoon/evening about the car that had several K worth of damage(8). Then I am sure he was not pleased, (especially considering the time in the wee hours of the A.M. that this happened)and Maura made plans that evening to leave school, she was looking for map directions at midnight or so on Sunday(8). She left on Monday(9).

[hydemi]

Dear Doc,

Maura had attended West Point from fall 2001 (I believe) to middle of her sophomore year, majoring in chemical engineering, running on the track team.

Somehow she left over the winter in early 2003 and started in the nursing program at U Mass by Feb (?) 2003.

Somewhere online or in one of the early media reports after Maura was gone, her Dad talks about he worked out this switch of schools with her--which seems to have been fairly quickly.

I do not know for sure of any reason for her leaving West Point, and am not sure what year her boyfriend Lt Rausch graduated before he went to Fort Sill--perhaps 2003 that same year?

Her sisters Kathleen and Julie had gone to West Point, and Julie was still in the military service at the time of Maura's disappearance and may be today.

Hopefully Peabody or someone with more exact knowledge will pick up on this post and correct any errors in what I am saying.

[docwho3]

Dear Doc. . . . .(I shortened the quoted material to save space since the original post is already close at hand. I hope you don't mind.)
Thank you for the info! I do hope more info is posted about that time.

[hockeysl]

I have been reading up on her case since the beginning. maybe this already came up. but if she got off at the Wells River Exit on 91 and she did presumably want a new life or need help.. 5 miles isn't all that far. and there is a truck stop in Wells River Vt, right off the exit. Did anyone talk with people that run that truck stop? See if they have any information?

Just wondering.

[docwho3]

to hydemi: Ok, I finally read 30 pages of posts in the maura murray case discussion thread.

[hydemi]

Good, as you can see most of the posters there believe Maura was picked up and harmed the night of 2/9/04 and that she is no longer alive.

And her quick disappearance from the accident site near the Weathered Barn in Swiftwater was a puzzler from the beginning and remains so.

If you click on the Member List, I think you will find it helpful to review when you can the various posts by Helena Murray and Sharon Rausch, the most active family members (Mrs. Rausch is the boyfriend's mother). Both fear the worst for Maura but try to hope for the best--that she is alive whatever may have happened.

And the recently constructed Case Info timeline started on Oct 15th and updated on Oct 22d is really a big plus in understanding details.

[docwho3]

Good, as you can see most of the posters there believe Maura was picked up and harmed the night of 2/9/04 and that she is no longer alive.

And her quick disappearance from the accident site near the Weathered Barn in Swiftwater was a puzzler from the beginning and remains so.

If you click on the Member List, I think you will find it helpful to review when you can the various posts by Helena Murray and Sharon Rausch, the most active family members (Mrs. Rausch is the boyfriend's mother). Both fear the worst for Maura but try to hope for the best--that she is alive whatever may have happened.

And the recently constructed Case Info timeline started on Oct 15th and updated on Oct 22d is really a big plus in understanding details.
Ok. . . . I am not sure I understand your point yet. Sorry, I can be dense too at times. Maybe you can explain it further.

As to most posting people not believing Maura is alive:Time will tell what the truth is. Other than hoping all is well with her and her family I don't care that more people vote her dead than vote her alive. It really isn't about me being right or them being right.

I feel I have done a small part to help by having put together what so far is the only theory I have seen that seems to tie up all the facts including some that were puzzling when looked at from any other angle. I think that part is correct until or unless I see evidence to the contrary. Alive? Dead? When the last little bit of the puzzle is unraveled and she is found we will know that answer and I hope it is an answer everyone can be happy with. I believe that I have solved the plan part of the great escape and that solution/theory sort of points to where to look for answers as to her destination.

I am a bit wary of ending up forever defending the same points without end.
I will keep looking in on the case & I hope to see it solved in a year or two.
And of course, in the meantime, if I think of anything else that is helpful I will certainly post it.

[docwho3]

I thought some people might want to read about a young lady that ran away at age 25 as the knowledge might give perspective to this case:


Adult runaways are on the rise
By MICHAEL HOFFMAN
Shukan Bunshun (Oct. 27)
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fd20051030tc.htm


. . . .That's what Yumiko had in mind when she ran away two years ago at age 25. This is her story, as Shukan Bunshun relates it:
Born in Kanazawa, Yumiko graduated from junior college and then, at her parents' suggestion, spent three years studying tea ceremony in Kyoto. A job with a first-class ryokan in Tokyo looked like the passport to a stable, comfortable life -- but she abruptly quit after a year and a half and went to Bangkok.
Born in Kanazawa, Yumiko graduated from junior college and then, at her parents' suggestion, spent three years studying tea ceremony in Kyoto. A job with a first-class ryokan in Tokyo looked like the passport to a stable, comfortable life -- but she abruptly quit after a year and a half and went to Bangkok.
"Bangkok was wonderful," she says. "I made friends, took drugs." A few weeks later she was back in Kanazawa, but she was no longer the same person.
"Up to that point I'd been a good child. I did everything my parents told me to do. Enough of that! Now I wanted to live!"
She left without a word and went to Tokyo, where she worked in a pub and didn't bother securing a fixed address. The pub's patrons put her up -- "utterly charmless guys you wouldn't dream of having sex with." Nor were they much interested in sex with her, apparently. "They seemed to think it was their business to take care of me; they lectured me about the life I was leading. When I couldn't stand it any more I'd leave and move in with someone else."
The various ups and downs that followed included an affair with a Tibetan man and a trip to India with him. Back in Japan, they broke up, and she drifted into "the water trade" -- the sex business. A year of that has left her tired of it. Even so, "I'm glad I left home," she declares defiantly. "All my mother has to say is, 'Be a good girl, come back, I'll give you money.' No way.". . . . .

[pugsley]

I am a bit wary of ending up forever defending the same points without end.I will keep looking in on the case & I hope to see it solved in a year or two.And of course, in the meantime, if I think of anything else that is helpful I will certainly post it.

docwho3,

I don't think you have to worry about defending your point of view. You have very nice M.B. manners and I see everyone treating your opinion with respect. It's when people ram their point of view down other people's throats, that you might find that occuring. Just my opinion based on observation of most of the popular threads.

[docwho3]

docwho3,

I don't think you have to worry about defending your point of view. You have very nice M.B. manners and I see everyone treating your opinion with respect. It's when people ram their point of view down other people's throats, that you might find that occuring. Just my opinion based on observation of most of the popular threads.
Yes, everyone has been very kind so far and I very much appreciate it. I did not mean to imply anyone was not being kind. I am, however, aware that as more people come to the forum and read some but not all of the previous posts they may well post questions or theory point challenges that have already been dealt with. I am wary of that turning into a repetitive nightmare and so I meant to sort of serve notice in general that I may not always answer posts that are of that nature. I just didn't want to seem rude if I failed to answer those posts.

I greatly appreciate everyone's kindness in reponding to my posts especially in those instances when I have not communicated well myself. You have all been patient with me. Thank you.

[hydemi]

Actually I do not see how there is any evidence as yet for Maura having had a plan to run away, that was carefully designed and executed ahead of the three or four days prior to her disappearance on 2.9.04.

She was in the second week of the second term of her junior year, and so far her routine with the nursing program & the two jobs & the clinical visits was pretty well established and going ok. She had been sharing a ride to clinicals because of the problems with the old car, which is why her Dad came up for that weekend.

There is spotty evidence of her getting ready to leave Amherst--the checking out of the resorts on her pc, calling to Stowe and Bartlett phone nos.

I have wondered if she checked out the old car to be sure of its operability, or even if the car was really in such bad shape after all?

And she was I feel (some think she had not yet unpacked her boxes & bags) ready to drop out of school and leave Amherst upon her return from NH, as evidenced by her room being completely packed up with stuff ready to pick up and go.

The money part is the one thing you have mentioned that would be convincing, but the family has her 2003 tax return, and if anyone knows how much she was making, and what her savings were above and beyond the $280 she withdrew from the ATM on 2/9, so far they are not speaking up.

She could have had a lot more money with her, or in a secret account, but how do we know? She could have sold the jewelry and possibly the books for some ready cash, but how much? And the latter items were left behind.

And you asked about her leaving West Point a year earlier. Her Dad has said that he helped her work through that difficult time, yet she did not confide in her Dad about her leaving Amherst the next day after they had been so much together during the weekend. This possibly supports your theory.

So don't worry about defending yourself or whatever; my only aim is to find out the truth by sticking to the facts first. I am more inductive, only settling on a theory after I am as certain as I can be of my supposed facts.

[docwho3]

I wasn't speaking of you or any one person particularly when I mentioned being wary of having to repeatedly defend theory points as I later explained in another post response to someone else. I am sorry you do not feel there was a plan but thats your right. I hope you solve the case and if anything I turn up will help you I will certainly post it.

Actually I do not see how there is any evidence as yet for Maura having had a plan to run away, that was carefully designed and executed ahead of the three or four days prior to her disappearance on 2.9.04.

She was in the second week of the second term of her junior year, and so far her routine with the nursing program & the two jobs & the clinical visits was pretty well established and going ok. She had been sharing a ride to clinicals because of the problems with the old car, which is why her Dad came up for that weekend.

There is spotty evidence of her getting ready to leave Amherst--the checking out of the resorts on her pc, calling to Stowe and Bartlett phone nos.

I have wondered if she checked out the old car to be sure of its operability, or even if the car was really in such bad shape after all?

And she was I feel (some think she had not yet unpacked her boxes & bags) ready to drop out of school and leave Amherst upon her return from NH, as evidenced by her room being completely packed up with stuff ready to pick up and go.

The money part is the one thing you have mentioned that would be convincing, but the family has her 2003 tax return, and if anyone knows how much she was making, and what her savings were above and beyond the $280 she withdrew from the ATM on 2/9, so far they are not speaking up.

She could have had a lot more money with her, or in a secret account, but how do we know? She could have sold the jewelry and possibly the books for some ready cash, but how much? And the latter items were left behind.

And you asked about her leaving West Point a year earlier. Her Dad has said that he helped her work through that difficult time, yet she did not confide in her Dad about her leaving Amherst the next day after they had been so much together during the weekend. This possibly supports your theory.

So don't worry about defending yourself or whatever; my only aim is to find out the truth by sticking to the facts first. I am more inductive, only settling on a theory after I am as certain as I can be of my supposed facts.

[Peabody]

This past Wednesday, Maura was one of many featured missing persons in a "Adopt A Missing Person" event coordinated by Danae at Ashland University in Ashland OH.

There were two media sources which covered the vigil held there. The videos will probably not be available much longer, there doesn't seem to be a way to save them. Therefore, if interested, please watch right away.

mms://media.wmfd.com/wmfdnews/jason1117.wmv (mms://media.wmfd.com/wmfdnews/jason1117.wmv)

http://www.ohionewsnow.com/

Scroll down and look for Featured Videos and “Students remember missing persons”. Between the 2 videos, nearly all of the missing loved ones in the "Adopt A Missing Person Program" by Project Jason are shown. Project Jason is headed by our highly respected and much loved Kelly Jolkowski.

If you would, please take time to thank Danae for her efforts for the missing. This is the second vigil that she organized at Ashland University.

You can email her at dleali@ashland.edu (dleali@ashland.edu) .

Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[reb]

http://whokilledtheresa.blogspot.com/2005/05/rattled-baby-over-you.html

sorry if this has been posted before, but have you all seen this? (thanks to another poster in a different forum who provided the link) it has a map of where many, MANY missing people have disappeared from in NH & VT. as well as a map of where some unsolved homicides occured... also with a PHOTO of brianna maitland's car, as it was found- first time i've seen that photo. some really good info... really weird how all the spots are along major highways.

[murraydwyer]

The person who took the photos of Brianna Maitland's car posted them on her forum at http://www.bringbrihome.org/forums/index.php this week.

Glad somebody else noticed the highway angle...

[murraydwyer]

The following is from Kelly Jolkowski's Blog (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.comfriend.blogspot.com/).
It is the second in a multipart blog post, I would encourage you to read them as they are posted. Kelly is painfully aware of what a missing person’s family experiences…her son Jason is missing. Kelly, though, has gone beyond her own pain to help the families of so many missing persons

"Missing-person experts estimate that the bodies of 40,000 to 50,000 unidentified men, women and children were found by police during the past 50 years. These John, Jane and Baby Does were sent to local coroners and medical examiners for examination and then anonymously buried or cremated."

"Few states or local governments require that Doe cases be reported to any outside agency, and most coroners lack authority - and even the necessary computer links - to report directly to the FBI, the study found. "

"FBI records show 5,729 active Doe cases, only an eighth of what experts believe the actual number is. "
Article (http://www.showmenews.com/2005/Oct/20051009Feat007.asp)

I have been trying to compose a response to Doc Who’s ‘theory’. Someone posted the url to the posts on Maura's forum (http://mauramurray.com/phpBB2/) The following is the response…because I couldn’t have said it better

Thanks Pike for posting the url to Doc's posting, intriguing if one was reading a novel, but Maura's disappearance is not fiction, the facts point to a much different scenario than he/she paints of Maura's disappearance, it would be a happy outcome for everyone who loves Maura if this could possibly be so. Although many people would be sad and disappointed that Maura ran off, I'm certain that they'd prefer to have Maura alive and incognito than the other grim reality that is before them presently.

In some disappearances; they are staged for whatever reason a person wishes to make an old life disappear, however assessing the opinions of those who knew Maura which I have read here and on other forums and in the media, this seems very unlikely indeed. This is only my personal opinion.

There are several different theories for how Maura disappeared…and I’m sure the family has shared DocWho’s theory at different times. Some have pointed to the Runaway Bride…she was gone two weeks. Last week there was a body found in Hudson, NH…it was posted on Maura’s website…I can’t help but think that those who knew Maura went through agony until they found an article that reported that it was a male, believed to be over 60 years old. They believe the man has been missing for 30 years. The police say there is no record of anybody missing in the area…maybe he got a ride to the area or maybe his body was brought to the area….maybe he even took a bus. That man’s family may never know…most didn’t before they died. There is another story that was recently posted on Maura’s website about another young woman who disappeared 16 years ago…she was 15. This past weekend Connecticut Canine Search and Rescue (http://www.ccsar.org/) searched for this young woman. The search was based on information obtained by a group of Private Detectives Licensed Private Detectives Association of Massachusetts (http://www.lpdam.com/). This group works with the Molly Bish Foundation. These detectives started on Jennifer’s case in February…a very cold case. Quoted from the Boston Globe:

ROCKLAND -- For months, dogs trained to sniff out human remains have searched for Jennifer Fay's resting place. Finally, after working their way through fields and private basements across Southeastern Massachusetts, investigators are hopeful they may learn the fate of the teenager who disappeared more than 16 years ago.

The 16-year-old left her home in Brockton on Nov. 14, 1989, to go to a party and never returned. Since then, her mother, Dottie MacLean, has imagined many scenarios of what could have happened to her eldest daughter. She was kidnapped. She was sucked into a cult. She was sold into the sex trade.

Now, MacLean has had to face the growing possibility that her daughter is perhaps buried somewhere in a nearby town.

''Do I want them to find her? Yes. Do I want them to find her remains? No," she said in an interview at her house yesterday. ''But that's probably where this is headed."

On Saturday, a team of about 15 private investigators, dog handlers, and search volunteers visited an overgrown field off Manley Street in West Bridgewater.

The four dogs became interested in the site, and one went into full alert, wagging its tail and jumping up and down, the strongest reaction investigators had witnessed during their searches, said Phillip White, one of the private detectives volunteering for the Jennifer Fay Investigation Team.
Boston Globe Article (http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2005/11/21/team_hopes_to_find_remains_of_missing_girl/)

First, my sincere thanks to Kelly Jolkowski, the Bish family, the members of LPDAM, CCSAR, the National Center for Missing Children and Missing adults, the Doe Network and so many others who give of themselves and their time to help families find answers, and yes, the many dedicated police who do the same.

The beginning of this post says that there are 40,000 to 50,000 unidentified bodies over 50 years. In simplistic terms that means there are approximately 10,000 per year…how many per state…you do the math. This then means that there are 40-50 thousand missing persons. The follow was found at The National Center for Missing Adults (http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/nmco.php?webid=biometrics):
There are approximately 46,000 adults missing as of March 31, 2004. Of those missing, 17,439 are considered “at risk” or endangered missing; 6,309 are determined missing involuntarily; 7,691 are missing with disabilities; 1,046 are Catastrophe victims and 1,866 are placed into the “Other” category.

I don’t think anybody is counting how many were missing and found dead a year or two or 30 years later. How many were considered runaways like Aime Riley or Christina Lunceford and later found dead. Jennifer Fay was believed to be a runaway. I don’t think that all of the unidentified have been listed and I wonder how many missing are not listed because they are believed to be runaways.

Retired FBI executive Bill Hagmaier, now executive director of the International Homicide Investigators Association, said the failure to report tens of thousands of Doe cases is contributing to the rising percentage of unsolved murder cases. In 2003, the latest year for which records are available, only 62 percent of homicides were resolved, a 30-year low.

"We keep records on cars. We keep them on guns. But we don't keep records on unidentified people," Hagmaier said. "It's a national tragedy and a silent crisis." Project Identify - NCMA (http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/content.php?webid=identify)

46,000 Missing Adults – 40,000 to 50,000 unidentified bodies – Did they all run off to start a new life. When we take the attitude that adults have the right to go missing, we miss the possibility that something has happened to them and we allow murderers to go free…to kill again. Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacey, BTK………as a society, when do we start to take this seriously.

Perhaps Maura did run off, but if we just throw our hands up and ignore the possibility that somebody did her harm, we have allowed that person to continue to harm people…and quite frankly serial killers like Bundy and others counted on that. By all accounts Ted was absolutely charming, BTK a family man…how many are dead because of them???

As the poster on Maura's site said the facts (and admittedly there are few) lead the poster to believe otherwise...as I sit at my Thanksgiving table, I will give thanks that the faces of two of my three children will look back at me and pray that the third will be safe for another day and my thoughts will go to Maura's father and mother, sisters and brothers and other family members and friends and so many other families who have missing persons.

[docwho3]

. . .In some disappearances; they are staged for whatever reason a person wishes to make an old life disappear, however assessing the opinions of those who knew Maura which I have read here and on other forums and in the media, this seems very unlikely indeed. This is only my personal opinion.The "plan" theory seeming unlikely to some people for emotional reasons is ok with me. I can't tell you how many times (and there were very many) that I have read where family & friends of an adult runaway have said "so and so just would never do that!" And then the cops find that person alive & well somewhere, just a runaway. It hurts, but those are the facts that L.E. live with every day. Honestly Maura has not been gone all that long as some adult runaways go. I hope she is alive and I think she might be alive and well but I don't mind trying to help you find her if she is dead. I think my theory is essentially correct but it is not my child. It is a theory and is subject to change or sudden demise in light of facts to the contrary.

In case no one noticed, my previous posts also noted possibilities that could lead to Maura's being dead and I was unable to totally rule out some of those possibilities.
Yes I also told of the "plan" theory. And that still remains the most likely one.

The "plan" theory is still just a section of the overall puzzle, like fitting together several pieces in a jigsaw puzzle.

That facts in this case, as they are currently known, support a planned disappearance. And the "plan" is so far the only theory I have read so far that manages to account for what she took with her & what she left behind. However, I don't say that she absolutely can't be dead. And I certainly never said anyone should stop trying to find her whether dead or alive. I believe I have figured out that there was a plan and most of what that plan was. I cannot, at this time, rule out that she was double crossed by her helper. But as I posted previously, at least the "plan" theory points to looking for a person, a helper, and thats a good starting point toward finding Maura whether dead or alive.

There were some who pointed out,and rightly so, that there did not seem to be much, if any, actual evidence to support the "plan" having been born in the distant past and then brought into being slowly over time. It is possible that she might have thought up her plan and put it into execution much faster than I think. How to get a new identity isn't the sort of knowledge you normally are just born with so I assumed she might have explored that possibility over time and I still think that is a good possibility.

But I don't have to be right about that part. If I am wrong about the long time involved then perhaps she spoke of her desire to leave at college and someone promised to set her up in a new identity and maybe they did that for her and maybe they double crossed her. Or maybe she is just intelligent enough to have found out how to set up a new identity quickly on her own. Each of those possibilites carries with it problems but that does not completely rule them out. It just made them seem less likely to my mind.

However the evidence still points to there having been a plan for her departure that night as I have outlined in previous posts and none of those so far who seem opposed to the "plan" theory have managed to account for all the same facts. So far they just keep repeating that she would never leave on purpose and stay gone and that is somehow supposed to wash away the facts that point to a planned disappearance. And that emotional response in some ways may be keeping Maura from being found by them since it causes one to close eyes to the facts.

. . .Last week there was a body found in Hudson, NH…it was posted on Maura’s website…I can’t help but think that those who knew Maura went through agony until they found an article that reported that it was a male, believed to be over 60 years old. They believe the man has been missing for 30 years. . . . This stuff about other people who are not Maura being missing seems to me an attempt at implying that most people who are missing are dead and that is just not so. If it were so then L.E. would treat every missing person report as a homicide & swing into action accordingly. We all know they do not do so. The majority of missing persons are alive. That fact does not prove anything about Maura's case other than saying it is not unreasonable to theorize her being alive in the absence of evidence to the contrary, and I only mention the fact because it seems to me that an attempt was possibly being made to make it seem as if missing persons are usually actually dead most of the time.
Each year, more than 10,000 people are reported missing to the N.C. Center for Missing Persons. Reasons for the disappearances include problems at home, health or mental issues, snags with the law, or a taste for adventure. Most eventually return or are found by law enforcement officers. Most cases do not involve foul play. Many adults who disappear don't want to be found, or they may have other problems such as memory loss, mental illness, or a history of drug use or alcoholism.
http://www.nccrimecontrol.org/index2.cfm?a=000003,000005,000081
Note:I added the bolding. And I included the link since people are quoting stats.

. . .Perhaps Maura did run off, but if we just throw our hands up and ignore the possibility that somebody did her harm, we have allowed that person to continue to harm people…and quite frankly serial killers like Bundy and others counted on that. By all accounts Ted was absolutely charming, BTK a family man…how many are dead because of them??. . . .To imply that my posting a theory concerning this case is tantamount to calling for everyone to throw up their hands and allow serial killers to run wild is simply nonsense and such tactics are unworthy of this forum. It certainly sounds as if it is an attempt to silence honest opinions being posted for fear of being labeled as a coddler of serial killers. I certainly hope I misunderstood that part and feel free to correct me if I am wrong about it.

If anyone thinks Maura is dead that's fine by me. It doesn't even conflict with the plan part of my theory so far. But until other information surfaces to indicate otherwise I still lean towards her being alive.

[hydemi]

Dear Doc,

To me it is obvious, if Maura is a runaway and hopefully alive today, that she had decided to leave UMass (room packed up, etc), not to tell her Dad that weekend or to be thwarted by her family in this decision (even if she was taking off a few days first to be sure), and to break off with her boyfriend (he was the only one she was trying to contact on Monday, and presumably it was her calling on Wed am).

She did not want to be a West Pointer, to marry into regular Army, to be a nurse for the rest of her life, etc. This had to put her in potential conflict with family given that her sisters had gone to West Point, her Mom was a nurse, not to mention that she was now giving up a second fully paid education in a year without any input from them.

We differ in that I do not see the prior planning--how much money did she really have above the $280 from the ATM? had she already procured fake id including driver's licenses and soc sec number? Did she have a confederate who knows what really happened and has stayed mum?

As to her getting away from the accident scene in Swiftwater, it appears she had to get a ride at some point along route 112, whether in those first ten minutes around 7.45pm or later. Otherwise it would seem that more than one sighting of her along the road would have been reported than the contractor's alleged sighting four miles east. The instantaneous getaway whether with a confederate or a passerby remains a mystery. If a confederate, why not take all of her stuff including the blue bag in the back seat instead of only grabbing the small backpack? If a passerby, why has he not come forward with info?

[docwho3]

Dear Doc,

To me it is obvious, if Maura is a runaway and hopefully alive today, that she had decided to leave UMass (room packed up, etc), not to tell her Dad that weekend or to be thwarted by her family in this decision (even if she was taking off a few days first to be sure), and to break off with her boyfriend (he was the only one she was trying to contact on Monday, and presumably it was her calling on Wed am).

She did not want to be a West Pointer, to marry into regular Army, to be a nurse for the rest of her life, etc. This had to put her in potential conflict with family given that her sisters had gone to West Point, her Mom was a nurse, not to mention that she was now giving up a second fully paid education in a year without any input from them. . . As you say,up to here we pretty much agree as far as I can tell.

. . . We differ in that I do not see the prior planning. . .It's Ok with me, as I said before, I can't prove how much prior planning was done so you might be right that less planning was done or that whatever planning was done took less time than I think it did. I suppose that time will tell. I commend you for looking at different angles of the case.
. . .--how much money did she really have above the $280 from the ATM? had she already procured fake id including driver's licenses and soc sec number? Did she have a confederate who knows what really happened and has stayed mum?. . .All good questions, concerning which I attempted to either answer or at least posit a possibility, in some of my previous posts. More needs to be done by L.E. or private investigator to look into that area. (Unless L.E. have quietly beat us to it.)

. . . As to her getting away from the accident scene in Swiftwater, it appears she had to get a ride at some point along route 112, whether in those first ten minutes around 7.45pm or later. Otherwise it would seem that more than one sighting of her along the road would have been reported than the contractor's alleged sighting four miles east. The instantaneous getaway whether with a confederate or a passerby remains a mystery. If a confederate, why not take all of her stuff including the blue bag in the back seat instead of only grabbing the small backpack? If a passerby, why has he not come forward with info?Again, it is good you are looking at various angles of this case.

If the confederate picked her up on the road but not at the exact car wreck location (as in even a hundred yards down the road) then all the helper would have is the backpack Maura took with her and Maura herself.

With the cops probably on the way due to Maura having already been seen there wasn't time to stop at the wrecked car and there would have been the risk of possibly also being seen while emptying out the rest of Maura's car. I think that risk would have been unacceptable to both Maura and her helper.

Why not come forward and report Maura's whereabouts? The helper might not know where she is by now. And also people often will respect the wishes of a friend in not wanting to be found and the helper has likely read news reports about Maura's case stating "there is no law against wanting to disappear" as I seem to remember having read in those same reports.

Note:Good to hear from you again.

[docwho3]

Here is something about missing persons that I found interesting.
Note: I added the bolding.
Click the link to read the rest of the article.
. . .On the personal front, my stepson did turn up, six years later, in the U.S. Army. And it is true that when my truck was stolen last year, it was found by the police in just a few days, but I find nothing strange about that difference.

One was a strong-minded kid who didn't want to be found and looked like millions of other kids. The other one was a purple pickup truck with a license plate on it.
http://www.sptimes.com/News/052501/news_pf/Columns/Fact_is__cars_are_eas.shtml

[KatherineQ]

Here is something about missing persons that I found interesting.
Note: I added the bolding.
Click the link to read the rest of the article.

See this is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. That someone can join the ARMY for crying out loud, while they are an official missing person. The classification of missing person should have more "teeth" in it, in my opinion, and allow a red flag to be placed on the person's SS#.

[docwho3]

See this is the kind of thing that drives me nuts. That someone can join the ARMY for crying out loud, while they are an official missing person. The classification of missing person should have more "teeth" in it, in my opinion, and allow a red flag to be placed on the person's SS#.I agree.

[murraydwyer]

I have delayed responding to the post by DocWho until I could give it the proper response…unemotionally.

The "plan" theory seeming unlikely to some people for emotional reasons is ok with me.

The quote above was referencing a post by me, however, I was quoting somebody who had posted on Maura’s forum. I think it does this person and others who disagree with the theory a disservice to state that they have or may have disagreed for “emotional reasons” (in fact this poster has not totally dismissed the “plan theory”). The particular poster being quoted has in fact spent quite a bit of time asking questions, doing research and posting information to Maura’s website…not all of which is available to a reader who only read the timeline and news articles.

However the evidence still points to there having been a plan for her departure that night as I have outlined in previous posts and none of those so far who seem opposed to the "plan" theory have managed to account for all the same facts. So far they just keep repeating that she would never leave on purpose and stay gone and that is somehow supposed to wash away the facts that point to a planned disappearance. And that emotional response in some ways may be keeping Maura from being found by them since it causes one to close eyes to the facts.

As far as I can see the evidence points to the fact that Maura had a plan to go to NH or VT. There is no evidence whatsoever that Maura planned on disappearing. Here, I would note that you also do those who are opposed to the 'plan' theory a disservice by assuming that they reacted with an emotional response and closed their eyes to anything, fact or theory. Presumably, the NHSP have looked at the facts unemotionally and, well after Maura’s disappearance, traveled to MA to retrieve Maura’s belongings and re-impounded Maura’s car and have denied repeated requests for information by the family based on the fact that it is an open and ongoing investigation by law enforcement agencies.

Maura is listed on the National Center for Missing Adults:
NMCO is dedicated to the prevention of abduction and the safe recovery of missing persons with primary focus on adults determined by law enforcement to be endangered due to foul play, diminished mental capacity, physical disability, or suspicious circumstances.
Maura is also listed in NCIC:
Entering adults into the national database (NCIC), is also limited. A report may be taken and an investigator will be assigned to all cases, but there are specific criterion for NCIC. If the missing person has a physical handicap or mental disability, if they are missing involuntarily, if they are a victim of a catastrophe or if they are in some way endangered, then the person can be placed into NCIC.

This stuff about other people who are not Maura being missing seems to me an attempt at implying that most people who are missing are dead and that is just not so.

Thank you for pointing out that my post was not clear to you, though I must say I am curious as to your confusion. You are absolutely correct, not everyone who is missing is dead…and I never meant to imply that in any way.

The majority of missing persons are alive.

As I said, I have not found any statistics that are kept on how many are missing found dead, but your statement is accurate as far as it goes…according to the Las Vegas Police, The fact is that the vast majority of reported missing persons are found or voluntarily return home within 48-72 hours after being reported. However, according to the National Center for Missing adults:
According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, National Crime Informatin Center (NCIC) there are 47,842 active missing adult cases, with 30,622 missing adults missing one year or more (as of 7/30/04). Maura has been missing for almost two years....

Sadly, I think that your confusion stems from the fact the numbers seem to correspond in the articles I cited. There are 47,842 reported active missing adult cases and there are 40,000-50,000 reported unidentified bodies over 50 years. I in no way meant that fact A equalled fact B, but ….the fact remains that according to the articles I posted there are 40,000 to 50,000 unidentified bodies spread out over the United States…I suspect some died of natural causes that had nothing to do with any crime and will never be identified either because they were homeless or because their belongings were scattered by animals over the years. It would also appear from that Bill Hagmaier states in the article cited that not all of the unidentified bodies are reported…nor presumably are all of the missing reported.

Retired FBI executive Bill Hagmaier, now executive director of the International Homicide Investigators Association, said the failure to report tens of thousands of Doe cases is contributing to the rising percentage of unsolved murder cases. In 2003, the latest year for which records are available, only 62 percent of homicides were resolved, a 30-year low.

The point I was trying to make is that in too many of these cases, the missing cannot be 'matched' to the unidentified because of a lack of reporting as was pointed out in the article and in the blog I referenced.

If it were so then L.E. would treat every missing person report as a homicide & swing into action accordingly. We all know they do not do so.

In fact some law enforcement agencies do swing into action :
Las Vegas Metropolitan Police (http://www.lvmpd.com/bureaus_and_staff/missing_persons/information_about_missing_adults_.html)
The Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department Missing person Detail Investigates all cases of Missing Persons and Runaway Children.
It is the policy of the department to conduct thorough missing persons’ investigations to ascertain the possibility of a criminal act, to quickly initiate searches to reduce the possibility of harm to missing persons, and to return missing children to their families as soon as possible.
San Francisco Missing Persons Unit (http://www.sfgov.org/site/police_index.asp?id=21641)
Investigations regarding missing persons present a genuine challenge to law enforcement professionals. Fortunately, public awareness and concern about missing persons continues to grow, especially as it relates to missing children, persons who are mentally and physically impaired, and suspected victims of foul play. The San Francisco Police Department will investigate all persons reported missing until the person is found or determined to be a voluntarily missing adult.

San Jose, CA Police (http://www.sjpd.org/WhatisaMissingPersons.cfm)
The investigation of missing person cases takes priority over cases involving property crime. This is especially true when a case involves a missing person who is believed to be at risk. Every report of a missing person is assigned to a detective for investigation.

And according to the National Center for Missing Children (and if you read it, they are not just referring to children) they should:

National Center for Missing Children - Model Policies and Procedures (http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=404)
“it is essential that each response, regardless of what the initial indicators may be, should be governed by an assumption that the person is in jeopardy until significant facts to the contrary are confirmed. When officers respond with the missing person’s safety as their foremost concern, they will be more likely to collect evidence or information that might otherwise be lost during the critical, early stages of an investigation.” **

To imply that my posting a theory concerning this case is tantamount to calling for everyone to throw up their hands and allow serial killers to run wild is simply nonsense and such tactics are unworthy of this forum. It certainly sounds as if it is an attempt to silence honest opinions being posted for fear of being labeled as a coddler of serial killers. I certainly hope I misunderstood that part and feel free to correct me if I am wrong about it.

I certainly didn’t mean to imply that posting a theory was tantamount to calling for everyone to throw their hands up and allow serial killers to run wild and agree that it is nonsense. The statement I was trying to make was that when we as a society dismiss missing persons as runaways and police don’t do investigations because there is no obvious, visible evidence of a crime, evidence is missed or lost. When we as a society, agree that adults have the right to go missing we run the risk of allowing criminals to go free.

As mentioned above some police agencies are starting to take the growing number of missing persons seriously…some are still telling people that they have to wait 24-48 or even 72 hours to report a missing person. The initial actions or lack of action by police in Maura's case appear to deny the possibility that something untoward happened to Maura..although their initial press release stated that Maura might be suicidal. On February 9, 2004 all the police knew was that a 20ish young woman, who had possibly been drinking, was not at the scene of a single car accident on a very dark rural road in 12º temperatures. To all appearances, they did not even attempt to contact the owner of the car until the next day and had the car towed that night. While it is reported that they drove around looking for Maura in the pitch black, the reports available indicate that there was one direction they did not travel…east of the scene which is where the alleged sighting (not reported until April 29th) of Maura is reported to have occurred. No formal search was done for almost 36 hours, when the dog lost her scent at the scene not where she was allegedly spotted approximately five miles away an hour later. (this quote is from a news article that was not cited: Scarinza said a man, whom he declined to identify, was returning from a construction job in the Franconia area when he spotted a young woman matching Murray's description hurrying east on Route 112, about an hour after her accident....and this: NH State Police have infomed Fred Murray that a resident of Route 112 in NH has come forward saying that they saw "a youngster dressed in jeans and a dark coat moving at a fast pace, looking away from my car so as not to be seen, traveling east about 4-5 miles east of the accident site at about 8 or 8:15 pm on Monday, Feb 9th."

http://www.truckingboards.com/trucking/upload/archive/index.php/t-7022)
Now many assume she got a ride and that is why the dog lost her scent....the problem with that is that it in no way would have taken someone an hour to go 4-5 miles by car and if she had walked or run that far it seems as though some else including police could have seen her and the dog would have continued to follow the scent....with the plowed snow along the side of the road it would have been very difficult to hide along the road...easy in summer, but not that night....and if she had had an accomplice it would appear that they were pretty far behind.

As I also posted previously, it would seem that there would have been other choices one could make to ditch a car if they were planning on disappearing...especially a car not in good working order...why attempt an almost three hour drive if you have an accomplice....and because the car was registered to her father, chances that would be reported to him were far greater than if it had been left in the school parking lot where it had remained parked for a couple of weeks...why not just take off with the accomplice.

When you read the posts on Maura's website, you also find some contradictions in statements made to the press by those at or near the scene (and I am not entirely ruling out misquotes...except that some of the info is repeated in more than one paper).

The flashers in Maura's car were on...the flashers in Maura's car were off (perhaps at different times) depending on who was interviewed.

The person last known to have spoken to Maura states:
“She spun on the curve. She had no lights on, and it was a dark car. I could just about see it. I put my flashlight in the window. She was behind the airbag. All I could see was from her mouth up,” Atwood said yesterday as he stood in his driveway and pointed to the accident spot. 2/19/04 sorry I don't have the source.

The problem I have with that is that other neighbors stated that this witness didn't arrive for about 5 minutes after Maura's car was stopped...airbags deflate within less than a second...unless of course they are defective...

This person is reportedly a former police officer presumably trained to observe an accident scene. Although it is true it is reported that he offered to call the police, there are no reports that anything was done to prevent another car from hitting Maura's car, no offer of a blanket until help arrived and no offer to stay with her until help arrived...the person reports staying on the porch, but states that he couldn't see Maura's car and reports that they saw no cars stop...then the person reports going to the bus in 12º degree weather to do paper work where police knocked on the window... It sounds as though he didn't even notice the flashing lights from the emergency vehicles when they arrived.

Again the same contradictions...she was picked up at the scene or seen running an hour later, 4-5 miles away where according to what has been published no help was offered at all...yet this person appears to state that the person seen running was averting her face so as not to be seen??....it seems that some memories may be a bit hazy.

These are some of the reasons I have questions about the 'plan' theory.

[docwho3]

. . .The quote above was referencing a post by me, however, I was quoting somebody who had posted on Maura’s forum. I think it does this person and others who disagree with the theory a disservice to state that they have or may have disagreed for “emotional reasons” (in fact this poster has not totally dismissed the “plan theory”). The particular poster being quoted has in fact spent quite a bit of time asking questions, doing research and posting information to Maura’s website…not all of which is available to a reader who only read the timeline and news articles. If you read some of my previous posts then you know I actually read the case discussion forum at the mauramurray.com website at hydemi's request. I won't further argue my reasons for saying what I said because the posts seem pretty self explanatory to me.

. . .As far as I can see the evidence points to the fact that Maura had a plan to go to NH or VT. There is no evidence whatsoever that Maura planned on disappearing. . . See my previous posts. If you don't agree that the evidence points to prior planning to at least some degree then you probably never will believe it so I won't argue the point further.

. . .Here, I would note that you also do Maura’s family a disservice by assuming that the family has reacted with an emotional response and closed their eyes to anything, fact or theory.It should be obvious from some of my previous points that I care about the happiness of Maura and her family. If you speak officially for the family you should say so.

I was remembering others telling me that most family and many family supporters seemed to feel Maura was not alive and had met with foul play. And I can point to news interviews where her dad was adamant in saying that she was the victem of a crime and that L.E. should treat the case as such. While I can see the emotional reponse that might drive such a request, I saw, and still see, no actual evidence to point to a crime. Therefore coming to the conclusion that it was an emotional response was not unreasonable and was in no way a slam at the family and I refuse to turn this into an argument of that nature.

Your post sounds as if it is becoming some sort of personal duel between the two of us and I will not participate in such.

. . .Presumably, the NHSP have looked at the facts unemotionally and, well after Maura’s disappearance, traveled to MA to retrieve Maura’s belongings and re-impounded Maura’s car and have denied repeated requests for information by the family based on the fact that it is an open and ongoing investigation by law enforcement agencies.

Maura is listed on the National Center for Missing Adults:
NMCO is dedicated to the prevention of abduction and the safe recovery of missing persons with primary focus on adults determined by law enforcement to be endangered due to foul play, diminished mental capacity, physical disability, or suspicious circumstances.
Maura is also listed in NCIC:
Entering adults into the national database (NCIC), is also limited. A report may be taken and an investigator will be assigned to all cases, but there are specific criterion for NCIC. If the missing person has a physical handicap or mental disability, if they are missing involuntarily, if they are a victim of a catastrophe or if they are in some way endangered, then the person can be placed into NCIC. . .Actually the L.E. seems to have believed the case an adult willful runaway until pressured by family in news interviews and calls to the governor to declare it a crime so I can't put much stock in her case now being in that listing.

. . .Thank you for pointing out that my post was not clear to you, though I must say I am curious as to your confusion. You are absolutely correct, not everyone who is missing is dead…and I never meant to imply that in any way. . . .I am glad you never meant to imply that as that was certainly the implication received.

. . .As I said, I have not found any statistics that are kept on how many are found dead, but your statement is accurate as far as it goes…Yes and that statement said that most are found and that in most cases most are not the victem of foul play. That fact that you can quote some stats to show that some smaller percentage are foul play victems does not change my statements truth.

. . .Maura has been missing for almost two years....[/qoute] Yes she has been missing for 2 years which isn't all that long compared to some other missing adullt cases and I also posted an example of someone missing 6 years who finally turned up alive and well.

[QUOTE=murraydwyer]. . .In fact some law enforcement agencies do swing into action :. . .Yes some few do swing into action and most will do so if the missing person is 12 or under or even older if special circumstance exist to indicate foul play as opposed to willful runaway. In Maura's case there has so far been no shred of evidence made public to indicate foul play.

Even so,I believe all angles of the case and all possibilities should be agressively looked at until enough evidence surfaces to rule out some of those possibilities. Sadly,in your post, I am not seeing a tolerant attitude that allows all angles of a case to be considered for more than the few seconds it takes to dismiss them if they don't somehow describe Maura as being the innocent victem of foul play that had no plans of ever leaving home etc. No matter what the evideince to date shows.

. . .I certainly didn’t mean to imply that posting a theory was tantamount to calling for everyone to throw their hands up and allow serial killers to run wild and agree that it is nonsense. The statement I was trying to make was that when we as a society dismiss missing persons as runaways and police don’t do investigations because there is no obvious, visible evidence of a crime, evidence is missed or lost. . . .Evidence of foul play is not lost in most cases where the person was not in fact a victem of foul play but yes, in that other smaller number of poeple that are victems of foul play then evidence may be lost by the delay and I have posted before that I would not mind if all L.E. agressively investigated all missing persons as possible foul play as a matter of national policy. But that in no way precludes one from coming to the conclusion in some cases, as in Maura's at this time, that a person has left voluntarily, especially if, in doing so, that conclusion might even be pointing to where to look to further the investigation. And posting such a theory in no way helps bad guys as long as people look at all evidence until possibiities can be ruled out.

. . .When we as a society, agree that adults have the right to go missing we run the risk of allowing criminals to go free. . .Whether we like it or not the law is what it is, and in some cases it serves a good purpose. However, I would not be opposed to someone trying to get the laws changed to better help families. Maybe requiring a voluntary runaway to fill out a private form at the local police station before leaving.

. . .Scarinza said a man, whom he declined to identify, was returning from a construction job in the Franconia area when he spotted a young woman matching Murray's description hurrying east on Route 112, about an hour after her accident. http://www.truckingboards.com/trucking/upload/archive/index.php/t-7022)
Now many assume she got a ride and that is why the dog lost her scent....the problem with that is that it in no way would have taken someone an hour to go 4-5 miles by car and if she had walked or run that far it seems as though some else including police could have seen her and the dog would have continued to follow the scent....with the plowed snow along the side of the road it would have been very difficult to hide along the road...easy in summer, but not that night....and if she had had an accomplice it would appear that they were pretty far behind. Yes I read the same report but there was some controversy about the article but in any case it did not rule out her still having someone following along several minutes behind just in case she should run into car trouble, (which she did.)

. . .As I also posted previously, it would seem that there would have been other choices one could make to ditch a car if they were planning on disappearing...especially a car not in good working order...why attempt an almost three hour drive if you have an accomplice....and because the car was registered to her father, chances that would be reported to him were far greater than if it had been left in the school parking lot where it had remained parked for a couple of weeks...why not just take off with the accomplice.I already responded to this point in a previous post and will not repeat myself.

I think perhaps you and I should just agree to disagree, at least until or unless some evidence surfaces to conclusively rule out one view point or the other. If I find anything to help your view of the case I will post it. The truth is the truth and that is all I am after.

[CyberLaw]

Murraydwyer:

I beg to differ, those who look at facts with an unbiased, impartial basis (which is the basis for unemotional) and logic of the facts are by no means under any misperception that Maura did not have and did not plan to "runaway". Facts trump emotion, facts trump lies. I for one have no qualms whatsoever, in stating "Maura did have a plan and did make plans to "runaway". I am not going to "rehash" all of the reason why, we all know those.

As far as I can see the evidence points to the fact that Maura had a plan to go to NH or VT. There is no evidence whatsoever that Maura planned on disappearing.

But, if Maura did not have an accident and a subsequent investigation by LE, NO one including her family, friends, boyfriend, school chums would have any idea where she went. It would have been at least seven days before any one had any idea that Maura was not in school. Thus she was disappearing.........now we know that two of the places that she looked into were NH and VT. If there was no investigation and car accident, her family would be saying today that Maura went missing.....which is exactly what she did end up doing. If I want to disappear, I am not going to tell anyone where I am going. I am just up and gone. If she only wanted to take a "vacation", she would have told her friends and family that she was going away for a week and this is where she was going if they needed to reach her.

Here, I would note that you also do Maura’s family a disservice by assuming that the family has reacted with an emotional response and closed their eyes to anything, fact or theory.

Oh please, don't get me started on this family. When people go missing voluntarily, especially a young adult and then does not contact her family. She feels she is "punishing" them for their past behavour and treatment of her or perceived treatment. What better sources of control and power over family members and what better way to hurt them then to disappear and not contact them. As far and the missing person is concerned, why would he/she contact family members, nothing is suddenly going to change their family situation, they have "washed their hands" of their family by going missing and not contacting them. It is for the benefit of the family, not the missing person to establish contact with the missing person. If the missing person feels anger towards the family, you can bet your bottom dollar that this will only "spur" the missing person not to contact them. This is a form of independance and control and power.

Presumably, the NHSP have looked at the facts unemotionally and, well after Maura’s disappearance, traveled to MA to retrieve Maura’s belongings and re-impounded Maura’s car and have denied repeated requests for information by the family based on the fact that it is an open and ongoing investigation by law enforcement agencies.
LE has from the start stated REPEATEDLY, that Maura ran away. They have never said this is suspicious, that foul play may be involved, that they are looking for a suspect. Please..............this is an open voluntary missing person case until someday, there is any evidence discovered to change that. We all know that the familly is not legally entitled to any information about Maura unless Maura signed a release giving permission to share with a third person. Considering the "history of the family and LE" little wonder LE has not viewed the family in a positive light. LE cannot release any information on this case due to the FOIA.

Maura is listed on the National Center for Missing Adults:
NMCO is dedicated to the prevention of abduction and the safe recovery of missing persons with primary focus on adults determined by law enforcement to be endangered due to foul play, diminished mental capacity, physical disability, or suspicious circumstances.
Maura is also listed in NCIC:
Entering adults into the national database (NCIC), is also limited. A report may be taken and an investigator will be assigned to all cases, but there are specific criterion for NCIC. If the missing person has a physical handicap or mental disability, if they are missing involuntarily, if they are a victim of a catastrophe or if they are in some way endangered, then the person can be placed into NCIC.

One of the circumstances of being listed in the NCIC is that the person is missing under unexplained circumstances. It does not mean that this person is in any immediate danger to themselves, but that they did not tell anyone of their plan to disappear. If a person's body is located, it has a better chance of being identified if listed in the NCIC database. Therefore if she did harm herself, suffered from the elements etc. and her body found, it can be more easily identified. When a person is listed as endangered, it means that the person is in danger of harm because of a physical or mental condition. We have been through this before......time and time again. Endangered is not from a danger from another person, but of the personal circumstances of the missing adult. Often when a persons circumstances is not known, they suddenly become endangered because that will enable LE and family to list them as that as a type of alert. If the person is found and listed as missing and endangered, the Police can stop them. Of course this increases the faimlies chance of finding the "endangered adult", not just another run of the mill missing person who does not and will not get any extra attention. A son goes missing and when the family reports to Police they know they will get more attention and resourses if they say that the person is suicidal and or depressed. Those two terms will ensure that the person is now "endangered". The family knows that their missing son is not suicidal or depressed, but this is a tool they can employ to help them find their missing son who voluntarly ranaway.

Now if a person does missing, was seen being dragged out of her car by the hair and thrown into a car. Well that person is kidnapped, but also a missing adult and in danger.

From Las Vegas
Because being a missing person is not a crime, police are given a very limited role while conducting these types of investigations. As a general rule, all people have a right to be left alone, and police intrusion into their lives must be minimal. However, in cases where "foul play" exists, police can investigate just like any other criminal act. Also, in cases where the missing person is "endangered" due to medical problems, or life-threatening situations, police will investigate.

Once the missing person is found by police, the department will notify the person who made the report. However, police cannot disclose the location or whereabouts of the missing person without that person’s consent.

Please.........all missing person departments make a report and will do a cusory exam of the home, car etc to determine if a crime has occurred. A person may be listed as missing by Mom and when they do over to her house, she has moved out. Address unknown. Or LE may go to the home and find blood on the floor and the house in disaray. In both circumstances, LE is following up on a missing person report. In one case no follow up is required, in the other case, foul play is suspected.

The San Francisco Police Department will investigate all persons reported missing until the person is found or determined to be a voluntarily missing adult.

LE in NH did investigate and they determined Maura to be a voluntary missing adult. So what was your point.......

The investigation of missing person cases takes priority over cases involving property crime. This is especially true when a case involves a missing person who is believed to be at risk. Every report of a missing person is assigned to a detective for investigation.

You mean that LE puts a person in higher priority over property belonging to someone. I am soooooo shocked, especially if the person is listed as endangered due to personal or medical circumstances. I guess it would be very bad PR for a family to go to the press and say: Our 75 year old grandmother who has diabetes and needs daily meds, does not speak english and has trouble walking was not as high as a priority as the car that was stolen.

Again your point was........

Please don't even THINK about referencing anything about minor children. Maura is an adult of 21 years of age, not 12.

People may have a learning curve when it comes to what other people want to do with their lives. If they want to join the army, then there are privacy issues in place that will ensure that if they are an adult, no one else needs to be notified. Why you ask........because at 21, go off to Tahiti for a year, travel South American, work in England. In other words, you can do what ever you want with your life without answering to others. That what makes being an adult so cool, don't you think. Ask any teenanger and they are counting the days till they are an adult and not under Mom and Dad "guidence", supervision and control. making your own decision in your life is called being an adult.

I am kind of glad that Maura was true to herself, instead of marrying a man she might not have wanted to, be an army wife, finish school when she really did not want to be a nurse, go the the school her Dad went to, the career her Mom entered, working as a nurse when she was not happy in her career choice. Her whole life was mapped out for her.....in years to come I am sure she may have resented and regretted that she did not do what she wanted to do with her life on her own terms.

By running away, Maura can do whatever she wants to do with her own life with complete independence and freedom and make her own choices for herself. No one except Maura would have any influence over what ever she decided to do. Again Maura is an adult and she if perfectly free to do whatever in her life that she wanted to do. That includes choosing to disappear and not contact her family.

[KatherineQ]

This case is just impossible.

You have a full grown woman, with adult rights, who obviously wanted to run away and not tell anyone where she was going.

Then, she runs into trouble and it's believable something other than what she intended to happen, i.e., that she would disappear and no one would be able to know where she went (at least for a period of time). And so when she wanted to disappear safely and go somewhere she had picked out, her plans went awry and now maybe she's run into horrible trouble.

There isn't any legal solution in our country, except to wait an agonizing 7 years and declare her dead. Then, they can do a very simple search of her SS# and answer the question in a matter of minutes whether she's living or not.

How horrible. If I were a member of her family, I'd find some way to pay off a SS employee and discover whether there's been any employment on her number.

[concernedperson]

I agree, this case is heartwrenching and has been for a long time. But at this point I believe she has met with foul play.

[docwho3]

. . . .And so when she wanted to disappear safely and go somewhere she had picked out, her plans went awry and now maybe she's run into horrible trouble. . .What you say is indeed possible and I hope that she is ok. Eventually the truth may come out. Some cold cases get solved even after 30 years. I wonder what the answer will turn out to be.

[Gabby]

Praying for Maura's return to the family and friends who love her. Regardless of the circumstances of her disappearance, we all want her found...hopefully safe.

[docwho3]

For those who do not already know and so are wondering about it, the theory I posted starts with post 121 and goes for several posts after that.

http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=879321&postcount=121

[Kelly]

If I were a member of her family, I'd find some way to pay off a SS employee and discover whether there's been any employment on her number.

I don't know about the LE in Maura's case, but my LE and LE in many other cases run SS# checks now and then to see if there is any activity. They then tell me there is none. No one needs to be paid off. LE should just do it.

Kelly

[murraydwyer]

Here, I would note that you also do Maura’s family a disservice by assuming that the family has reacted with an emotional response and closed their eyes to anything, fact or theory.

The above quote was only on line for a matter of minutes and was changed to read:

As far as I can see the evidence points to the fact that Maura had a plan to go to NH or VT. There is no evidence whatsoever that Maura planned on disappearing. Here, I would note that you also do those who are opposed to the 'plan' theory a disservice by assuming that they reacted with an emotional response and closed their eyes to anything, fact or theory.

The reason it was changed (before the post by DocWho or Cyberlaw) was because when I reread it it was not what had been said. The time of the post is when I started the post...as you can see it was a lengthy post and I had to find the quotes I was looking for and cite them...obviously they were writing while I was changing the wording. Regardless, because somebody (family, friend or complete stranger) disagrees that Maura disappeared does not mean that they disagree for emotional reasons. If I agree, then it must be fact, if I disagree, I must be emotional will never play with me... for me it is a trigger word meant to dismiss dissenting opinions, though I'm sure that's not what Doc meant by it:

Adj. 1. emotional - determined or actuated by emotion rather than reason; "it was an emotional judgment"
cerebral, intellectual - involving intelligence rather than emotions or instinct; "a cerebral approach to the problem"; "cerebral drama"

Emotional (E*mo"tion*al) (?), a.

Pertaining to, or characterized by, emotion; excitable; easily moved; sensational; as, an emotional nature.

I couldn't agree more with Doc Who...we can definitely agree to disagree. But, I too have a right to express my opinion here as I have done for quite a while...my thought are my own, though I'm sure they are shared by some in Maura's family. I am not writing as a representative of Maura's family and why would it matter if I were...they too have a right to their opinion. Several months after Maura disappeared, I met Maura's father and one of her sisters...I have never met Maura, I have never seen Maura, I have never spoken to Maura.

I have done considerable research into missing persons and unsolved homicides in general and Maura's disappearance in particular. I have read hundred of articles on Maura's disappearance and read many more than once, each time finding new information. I have discussed many scenarios of Maura's disappearance...including the fact that she might be voluntarily missing...I respectfully disagree with your conclusions and theory. I truly hope I am wrong.
9:34 p.m.

[KatherineQ]

I don't know about the LE in Maura's case, but my LE and LE in many other cases run SS# checks now and then to see if there is any activity. They then tell me there is none. No one needs to be paid off. LE should just do it.

Kelly

Kelly - I think in many cases, they are bound by law and privacy issues not to search. I know in the US adults are allowed to go missing if they want and you can't legally search their SS if there is reason to believe they wanted to leave.

Remember that case a couple months ago, the family had searched for years but it wasn't until they declared their daughter legally dead after 7 years, SS stepped in and stated she was working at a chain store in Oklahoma. Like, in a week of declaring her dead they had her work location.

edited to add: Kelly, I completely agree that SS should be able to search and notify the family. Maybe it could be that they notify the missing person first, that they have 2 weeks to contact their family, or SS will just announce that they are alive and well and working and don't want their family to contact them. It seems awful to just not know.

[Kelly]

Kelly - I think in many cases, they are bound by law and privacy issues not to search. I know in the US adults are allowed to go missing if they want and you can't legally search their SS if there is reason to believe they wanted to leave.

IT is LE who searches for activity, not the SS Administration. LE can and does search for activity in wage reporting on missing persons cases via SS# records, legally. The FBI also does these checks.

Perhaps we are not talking about exactly the same thing. I could not search these records myself, but LE can.

Brandi Stahr was found because of a public tip called in. I think her story is great in the sense of hope it gives to families like Maura's and mine.

Kelly

[murraydwyer]

The SSA also provides a letter forwarding service under special circumstances:

We will attempt to forward a letter to a missing person under circumstances involving a matter of great importance, such as a death or serious illness in the missing person's immediate family, or a sizeable amount of money that is due the missing person. Also, the circumstances must concern a matter about which the missing person is unaware and would undoubtedly want to be informed. (Generally, when a son, daughter, brother, or sister wishes to establish contact, we write to the missing person, rather than forward a letter from the relative.) Because this service is not related in any way to a Social Security program, its use must be limited so that it does not interfere with our regular program activities.

There is no charge for forwarding letters that have a humanitarian purpose. However, we must charge a $25 (effective July 1, 2001) fee to cover our costs when the letter is to inform the missing person of money or property due him or her. This fee is not refundable. The fee should be paid by a check that is made payable to the Social Security Administration.

We must read each letter we forward to ensure that it contains nothing that could prove embarrassing to the missing person if read by a third party. We do not believe that it would be proper to open a sealed letter; therefore, a letter that is sent to us for forwarding should be in a plain, unstamped, unsealed envelope showing only the missing person's name. Nothing of value should be enclosed.

To try to locate an address in our records, we need the missing person's Social Security number or identifying information to help us find the number. The identifying information needed is the person's date and place of birth, the father's name, and the mother's full birth name.

Usually, we forward a letter in care of the employer who most recently reported earnings for the missing person. We normally would have the current home address only if the person is receiving benefits. Therefore, we cannot assure that a letter will be delivered or that a reply will be received. Also, we cannot send a second letter.

Requests for letter forwarding should be sent to:

Social Security Administration
Letter Forwarding
P.O. Box 33022
Baltimore, MD 21290-3022

Social Security Administration - Missng Persons Letter Forwarding (http://www.ssa.gov/foia/ltrfwding.htm)

[Kelly]

Coincidentally, I will be featuring a story on my blog this week about a SS related case.

So, the question remains for those in the know, does LE in Maura's case do a SS check now and then for activity?

[LButler]

I think that it would be wrong for SS Admin to divulge information about SS activity. If that person has chosen not to contact family, but to lead a life away from them, the SS shouldn't have the right to destroy that. I know it would be frustrating for families not to have the answers when they are that easy to have, but it's not the job of SS to help them get the answers. Let's say you have a woman running from an abusive husband but every time she gets a job somewhere, the husband has the right to know that? She would never have a chance of getting away from him.

In a case close to me of a missing 25-year old (as of his disappearance in 1998), LE told me in an e-mail that they check his SS # for activity on a regular basis.

[KatherineQ]

I think that it would be wrong for SS Admin to divulge information about SS activity. If that person has chosen not to contact family, but to lead a life away from them, the SS shouldn't have the right to destroy that. I know it would be frustrating for families not to have the answers when they are that easy to have, but it's not the job of SS to help them get the answers. Let's say you have a woman running from an abusive husband but every time she gets a job somewhere, the husband has the right to know that? She would never have a chance of getting away from him.

In a case close to me of a missing 25-year old (as of his disappearance in 1998), LE told me in an e-mail that they check his SS # for activity on a regular basis.

It's a balancing act, for sure, knowing when to investigate and when to let an adult leave secretly. But there is also the interest of society in finding out if someone has been grabbed off the streets and murdered, because then society as a whole has a concern in finding and apprehending a violent killer. Maybe there should be some kind of a system where adults who have no legal obligations to their families could put a Do Not Disturb flag on their SS and be left alone.

[hydemi]

I realized tonight that my post about Maura's time at West Point must be in error, which has not been corrected by Peabody or by a family member who knows the dates.

I see in Part II of the All American Girl series on Maura on the Jolkowski website and blogs that Maura graduated from Whitman Hanson High in June 2000, 4th in her class, scored 1420 on SATs and got accepted to West Point.

I see in a quick google search one track and field result from a meet at Lehigh University that both Julie and Maura Murray are listed as competitors for Army in the same category--both Katherine and Julie attended West Point, so I had not realized that Maura overlapped with Julie.

The Part II summary says that Maura was at West Point one and a half years

Maura was in the middle of her junior year at U. Mass so she must have completed two semesters in Amherst, Spring 2003 and Fall 2003?

In any case there seems to be a missing six months or longer period where Maura was not attending college, before she switched over to U. Mass.

I do not know why she left West Point & chemical engineering to switch to U. Mass and nursing but this is a huge change, and for such a bright girl seems a puzzling move.

[docwho3]

I realized tonight that my post about Maura's time at West Point must be in error, which has not been corrected by Peabody or by a family member who knows the dates. . .
Thank you for posting the info. I may send you a message if that's ok.

[Peabody]

I realized tonight that my post about Maura's time at West Point must be in error, which has not been corrected by Peabody or by a family member who knows the dates.

I see in Part II of the All American Girl series on Maura on the Jolkowski website and blogs that Maura graduated from Whitman Hanson High in June 2000, 4th in her class, scored 1420 on SATs and got accepted to West Point.

I see in a quick google search one track and field result from a meet at Lehigh University that both Julie and Maura Murray are listed as competitors for Army in the same category--both Katherine and Julie attended West Point, so I had not realized that Maura overlapped with Julie.

The Part II summary says that Maura was at West Point one and a half years

Maura was in the middle of her junior year at U. Mass so she must have completed two semesters in Amherst, Spring 2003 and Fall 2003?

In any case there seems to be a missing six months or longer period where Maura was not attending college, before she switched over to U. Mass.

I do not know why she left West Point & chemical engineering to switch to U. Mass and nursing but this is a huge change, and for such a bright girl seems a puzzling move.
I thought I had posted regarding not only some of this information, but also some other information that has been around, but is in error. Hope this helps:


First, Maura's sisters are Kathleen and Julie.

Kathleen NEVER attended West Point. She is not in the army, nor was she ever in the army.

Julie graduated from West Point in 2002 after a 4 year stay beginning in June of 1998. She is currently an officer in the army, serving a 5 year stay which is required of any graduate of West Point. Julie and Billy, Maura's boyfriend were classmates. Julie introduced them to each other. Billy is also currently an officer in the army completing his 5 year commitment. (After serving their 5 years, they will choose whether or not they want to make the army a career, which would be an additional 15 year stay)


Maura began her West Point stay in June of 2000 and left in January of 2002 after completing the summer Beast Training in 2000 ( a more indepth Army Basic Training Program), 3 academic semesters (the two for her Freshman year during the fall of 2000 and winter of 2001 and her final academic semester during her sophomore year the fall of 2001. She also completed Military Intercession at WP during January of 2002. before leaving for UMass.

Maura began her UMass stay in January of 2002 and disappeared in Febuary of 2004. She went directly from WP to Umass. She was at UMass BEFORE the academic semester began in February because she was practicing with the track team. Therefiore, Maura completed 4 semesters at UMass and was just beginning her 5th when she disappeared.

Maura NEVER missed one semester of college.


She transferred from WP to UMass mid-term because she had missed the application deadline for a transfer to UMass for their fall semester of 2001.

Maura knew by the end of the first academic semester at WP during her freshman year (2000) that she wanted to transfer (BECAUSE she knew she did not want to serve in the military for 5 years upon her graduation). But leaving WP is not as easy as just dropping out. A WP student is considered active duty military and in order to leave with a good report must meet required processes, counceling sessions as well as completing a process in order to be discharged.

Also, Maura had to have a full scholarship in order to continue her education. Therefore, she could not begin the process to leave WP UNTIL she had everything in order to attend another school.

It is my understanding that her father DID NOT assist her in her search/choice of UMass, but a decision that she made on her own, and one that he supported. It is also my understanding that the first criteria in her decision for a transfer school was that she be provided full scholarship; the second criteria was that she be near to WP because of her relationship with her boyfriend at WP. (Amherst is 150 miles WP) She started her search in early 2001, but as previously noted between the army requirements and obtaining information/applying for scholarships, she was unable to leave WP prior to Jan 2002 WITHOUT missing some college.

As you said, Maura was very bright: she ELECTED to attend WP for 2 semesters AFTER having decided she wanted to leave. (I would suggest that you do a search on WP and the difficulty its students endure academically, physically and mentally. In addition, Maura was a Varsity Athlete. She earned her Varsity Letter the fall of her Plebe Year. This in itself is no small feat at any school, but much more difficult at WP, and added to the difficulty of day-to-day life while at WP)

Although Maura knew she was leaving WP, she also knew she would be completing her Freshman year in 2001 and to avoid a break in her college career, she would also need to attend the 2001 fall semester of her Sophomore year at WP.

When Maura transferred to UMass, she transferred as a chemical engineering student. However, in the fall of 2002, she sought to change her major to nursing. It is my understanding that Maura had to pull many strings and work very hard to make the change. There were only a handful of open seats in the nursing program and Maura was not in the nursing pre-requisite program. I have been told that she studied independently, along with taking her chemical engineeriing courses and making Dean's list, and took the tests that QUALIFIED her to earn a seat in the nursing program over students who had taken the pre-requisties to enter nursing. Maura was officially accepted into the UMass nursing program in January of 2003.

I also know there are people who knew Maura, both friend and family, who challenged her about her decision to enter nursing. It seems, they, like you thought her too bright to be "just a nurse". However, she told these same people that she liked working with and helping people and that she did not find any interest in the field of chemical engineering. One must also realize that WP DOES NOT offer a major in nursing or any medical field UNTIL after graduation. WHEN one goes on to the medical field from WP, it requires an additonal commitment to the five years already owed to the army. It is also my understanding that as the future permitted and after her marriage, Maura was going to pursue additional schooling in the medical field, so she was not going to be "just a nurse". (I wonder how many nurses are offended that an intelligent young woman is described as wanting to be "just a nurse"?)

Maura was not only a very intelligent person, but also a very practical one. Her changing her major from chemical engineering to nursing from all accounts was totally her idea. When one gets to know the family, her desire to "help people" may be both a genetic/environmental influence: There are MANY members of both sides of Maura's family in a career related to the medical field. She was not following in the steps of her mother and father when she switched to nursing or reacting to some pressure - she was pursuing her own desires. She did/does not have a family that is controling/smothering their adult children. (As an advocate for Maura, I have been contacted by many people; one was a professor/advisor of Maura's. He/She has confirmed the report by her family and friends of her desire to be "just a nurse". He/she told me of more than one meeting with Maura in which he/she attempted to have Maura major in another field, but she was very firm about her choice as well as why it was her choice.) My gosh, just consider, two of the daughters applied to and were accepted at WP which requires 5 year tours in the army. Does this sound like a family who must always be telling their daughters what to do and wants control of them? I am sure military families will quickly fill us in with the knowledge that the military controls your life, not your family. I have daughters and I would panic if one or more of them wanted to be in the army, and would do all that I could to dissuade them (and it has nothing to do with us currently being at war). Yet, people who do not know Maura and do not know her family and friends are convinced that Maura found them ALL so difficult that she had to move on to start a new life. Although I am not of the opinion that Maura ever made plans to start a new life, I continue to pray that she has. But, please, let's not place blame on the people who love Maura most.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[hydemi]

Sorry about "just a nurse" having been almost/just a good many things in my lifetime as well.

Clearly this talented driven young woman had already accomplished a great deal and could have done (is doing?) much with her life.

I am glad to hear she was back practising with the track team at U. Mass.

Having had to do what amounted to an extra year to make the change of schools and programs shows how motivated she was.

And I understand something about how the military works in one's life--having just returned from a family funeral in SE Virginia, where nearly all of my relations are or were involved in military careers in some way or another.

My impression remains that Maura was experiencing an inner conflict over her school & career choices, and have said above that I think she intended to return to U. Mass that week to withdraw officially, meeting the deadline for withdrawing in good standing as she re-evaluated everything.

If she ran away and kept running, it was a hasty decision made after the second accident, or so it appears to me--surely by now some evidence of prior planning would have emerged?

And the unexplained phone call received by Lt Rausch still appears to me to most likely have come from Maura, and if she had connected with him on 2/11 it could have been in part because she was still deeply ambivalent about whatever choice she was making (assuming she was not being "held").

BTW if this phone call could ever be shown not to have come from Maura, I would return to my original wondering about hypothermia being the most likely explanation for her disappearance.

thanks for much more detail than I expected.

[Peabody]

Sorry about "just a nurse" having been almost/just a good many things in my lifetime as well.

Clearly this talented driven young woman had already accomplished a great deal and could have done (is doing?) much with her life.

I am glad to hear she was back practising with the track team at U. Mass.

Having had to do what amounted to an extra year to make the change of schools and programs shows how motivated she was.

And I understand something about how the military works in one's life--having just returned from a family funeral in SE Virginia, where nearly all of my relations are or were involved in military careers in some way or another.

My impression remains that Maura was experiencing an inner conflict over her school & career choices, and have said above that I think she intended to return to U. Mass that week to withdraw officially, meeting the deadline for withdrawing in good standing as she re-evaluated everything.

If she ran away and kept running, it was a hasty decision made after the second accident, or so it appears to me--surely by now some evidence of prior planning would have emerged?

And the unexplained phone call received by Lt Rausch still appears to me to most likely have come from Maura, and if she had connected with him on 2/11 it could have been in part because she was still deeply ambivalent about whatever choice she was making (assuming she was not being "held").

BTW if this phone call could ever be shown not to have come from Maura, I would return to my original wondering about hypothermia being the most likely explanation for her disappearance.

thanks for much more detail than I expected.
You are welcome for the information. The additional detail was provided in hopes that it helps everyone to know Maura better.


I am in agreement with you that it seems highly likely that Maura was experiencing some sort of conflict in her life.........but being privy to ALL of the information that her family has learned (there is not any particular information that has not been released - I am referring to facts, comments and opinions of those who know Maura best, those who went to school with her and those with whom she socialized) and with no information that supports any particular issue, I am leaning towards the theory that Maura needed time away because of *burn out*.

I also agree that IF her room was packed that she was considering withdrawing from UMass and had it ready to load up in HER car so that upon her return to UMass, she would not have to endure for a lengthy time while she packed, the pleas of her friends to stay. But, I still don't think we can eliminate the possibility that the room had not been unpacked.

Beginning with her stay at WP in June of 2000, Maura had experienced almost 4 years of college with two very demanding, difficult and uninterrupted years at WP. During her time at UMass, she worked TWO part time jobs and for one and half years also ran track and cross country in addition to her maintaining Dean's List Honors and a relationship with a boyfriend who was stationed half a nation away after his graduation in 2002. Let's face it, Maura was living a stress filled life. But, this in itself does not provide evidence that Maura would want to run away to start a new life.

Her family and friends have said they seriously doubt that she had any money set aside because she flew to see the boyfriend as often as both of their schedules allowed. I know that the boyfriend assisted her in the cost of these flights, but even IF he paid for all of them in full, (based on his beginning grade lieutenant's pay, it is unlikely that he could afford to do so), she would have missed work during these visits, reducing her income. My guess is that after paying for her personal expenses, there was little money remaining for her to stash away. As I stated in an earlier post, Maura was already financially independent of her parents.

Maura knew that her boyfriend and her sister Julie could receive orders to Iraq or Afganistan at any time. Surely, this was of great concern to her and added to her stress.

I personally think it very possible that Maura was just needing time to make decisions (but the possibility remains that she may have just needed rest): the possible decision that comes to my mind is "should I withdraw UMass and move to OKlahoma?" During a visit with her boyfriend in late 2003, Maura had been hired by a local hospital in Oklahoma to work the summer of 2004. From what I have learned of Maura, she absolutely doted on her boyfriend. However, she was not scheduled to graduate until 2005, and a summer combined with a few weekends here and there may not have been enough to satisify her need to be with him. Having worked so hard for nearly four years, I am sure (if either of us are correct) that regarding decision making that would entail leaving UMass, Maura would not want to make the decision lightly or in haste......therefore, it seems logical that she would make plans to get away from school and life in general in order to have a clear mind; this would even explain her *need* not to tell her parents, her boyfriend, or friends (if I am correct, just as she decided to be a nurse, she would decide on what choice to make for **now** and she would make it alone) as to risk driving the car.......you recall how when you are young, taking risks is so natural; Those who know Maura will tell you that when it came to being courageous and independent, even as a child, Maura was more so than your average person.

Maura had 2 sets of running clothes with her. It is a fact that Maura ran 5-6 miles daily regardless of her schedule, the weather, etc. Those who know her best say that she IF she was angry, troubled, worried, etc., that she would run to work out the kinks in life. Maura loved running. She loved the White Mountains. Don't we all want to be/do the things we "love" in order to achieve some rest.

We can only guess, but it seems likely that she was planning on time alone, perhaps "running" as an aide to make a decision of some sort; or perhaps it was all just *burn out* and she just needed a rest. I know she spent the holidays prior to her missing divided between her family and friends in Hanson MA and CT, friends in western NY and with her boyfriend's family in OH. Even without traveling, the holidays are notorious for creating stress, and Maura could not possibly have had any physical or mental rest while keeping up a social pace that involved three physcial locations and traveling at least 1600 miles in two weeks. For all we know, she felt she must have a week's rest before entering another pressure cooker semester of nursing, work and being away from her boyfriend.

One cannot deny that Maura planned on a short-term get-a-way for what ever her reasons. However, there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to indicate prior planning to run away, or the desire to run away.

I too think that IF we knew for certain who the caller was on the morning of Wed, 2/11/04, we would know more about the case. Like so many other things in Maura's case, a *short* amount of time when the boyfriend was unavailale made so much difference. Had the boyfriend been available to take the call and it was Maura, I have no doubt that he and her family would not be enduring the heartache of not knowing where she is.

As always, my prayers for Maura to be found soon and for the comfort of all those who love her.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramurray.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramurray.html)


sorry for these long posts ~ I know they can be difficult to read.

[docwho3]

You made these two following statements in separate posts and I wonder if you might reconcile the two for me. How had she "completed 4 semesters at UMass and was just beginning her 5th " and still managed to not unpack her dorm room? Also I would think someone would have remarked about that, one of her friends or something. It was reported in news reports that she had even taken the pictures down from the walls so I am thinking they either had an actual source for that info (to have known the pics were ever up on the walls in the first place) or they would have had to make it up from whole cloth.
. . .She was at UMass BEFORE the academic semester began in February because she was practicing with the track team. Therefiore, Maura completed 4 semesters at UMass and was just beginning her 5th when she disappeared. . .
. . ."But, I still don't think we can eliminate the possibility that the room had not been unpacked. ". . .

[Masterj]

You made these two following statements in separate posts and I wonder if you might reconcile the two for me. How had she "completed 4 semesters at UMass and was just beginning her 5th " and still managed to not unpack her dorm room? Also I would think someone would have remarked about that, one of her friends or something. It was reported in news reports that she had even taken the pictures down from the walls so I am thinking they either had an actual source for that info (to have known the pics were ever up on the walls in the first place) or they would have had to make it up from whole cloth.
I may be wrong, but I was under the impression she had a bag or suitcase that she didn't unpack. I don't recall anything about pictures being removed from walls or anything like that.

As for an unpacked bag - I have to admit I am very guilty of that. I moved into my apartment last June and I still have 3 boxes left to unpack. I also visited my parents a month ago and have yet to finish unpacking my suitcase. Mainly for the reason that they contain warm weather clothes which I don't need, and because I just stopped working 7 days/80 + hours per week and I would much rather sleep on the rare occasion when I am not working.

[docwho3]

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression she had a bag or suitcase that she didn't unpack. I don't recall anything about pictures being removed from walls or anything like that.

As for an unpacked bag - I have to admit I am very guilty of that. I moved into my apartment last June and I still have 3 boxes left to unpack. I also visited my parents a month ago and have yet to finish unpacking my suitcase. Mainly for the reason that they contain warm weather clothes which I don't need, and because I just stopped working 7 days/80 + hours per week and I would much rather sleep on the rare occasion when I am not working. Note:I added the bolding.
"Sometime between Sunday and Monday morning, she packed up all her belongings in her dorm room, to include taking all her pictures off the walls, taking everything out of her bureaus, [and] put them all in boxes [and] left [them] on her bed,"
http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/26/41f802f9653c2

The only way for her to have left things packed in boxes and on her bed (edited to add: and yet to never have unpacked in the first place when she moved in) was to never have slept there in all that time. I find that a bit odd sounding.

[Peabody]

reconcile?
Posted by DocWho3 to Peabody:

You made these two following statements in separate posts and I wonder if you might reconcile the two for me. How had she "completed 4 semesters at UMass and was just beginning her 5th " and still managed to not unpack her dorm room? Also I would think someone would have remarked about that, one of her friends or something. It was reported in news reports that she had even taken the pictures down from the walls so I am thinking they either had an actual source for that info (to have known the pics were ever up on the walls in the first place) or they would have had to make it up from whole cloth. Quote:
Originally Posted by Peabody
. . .She was at UMass BEFORE the academic semester began in February because she was practicing with the track team. Therefiore, Maura completed 4 semesters at UMass and was just beginning her 5th when she disappeared. . .

Maura completed the following semesters at UMass:

1. Winter Quarter beginning Jan 2002 at which time she was a chemical engineering transfer student- she moved onto the UMass campus in mid Jan of 02 at which time she began practicing with the UMass Track Team. She completed WP Military Intercession and out processing from the army at the end of the second week of Jan 2002.

2. Fall Quarter beginning Sept 2002 - majoring in chemical engineering

3. Winter Quarter beginning Jan 2003 - officially accepted into the nursing program

4. Fall Quarter beginning Sept 2003

5. Winter Quarter beginning Jan 28 - voluntarily left school for one week on the afternoon of Feb 9th and mysteriously vanished that evening.

She was not in the same dorm room during all of this time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Peabody
. . ."But, I still don't think we can eliminate the possibility that the room had not been unpacked. ". . .

As to not having had unpacked her dorm room, Maura was in different dorm rooms during 2002 and 2003. It is also my understanding that she was required to remove her personal things over the holiday break, and not permitted to return to her dorm until Tues, Jan 27. The boyfriend's mother related that when Maura left her home after Christmas 2003 that she needed an additional suitcase to take home her Christmas gifts. When Mrs. Rausch retrieved the suitcase for her, Maura laughed because Mrs. Rausch still had clothing in it from the time they both had visited Lt Rausch in the spring of 2003. Maura remarked that they were very much alike: that she NEVER unpacked her things - she said her way of unpacking was to remove the clothing/items as needed and then after washing them she replaced them in the proper place. Because of the first hand knowledge of this story, and the fact that Maura only had two weekends at school before disappearing, one of which she spent with her Dad looking for a new car, it is my opinion that it is very likely that Maura may not have UNPACKED.

If this is in fact the way that Maura dealt with unpacking, I do not find it strange that her bureau drawers would have been empty and/or that there were no posters on the walls. I have been told that Maura was not one who plastered her walls with decorations. She had very simple tastes. I cannot comment on your reference to the news story stating that she had removed "pictures" from the walls. This may be true, or it may be a mistake. I do know there are many errors in the news articles.

But, even without knowing Maura, Masterj's post supports the lifestyle of unpacking as you go - it is very common among women, especially very busy women.

[Peabody]

Note:I added the bolding.
"Sometime between Sunday and Monday morning, she packed up all her belongings in her dorm room, to include taking all her pictures off the walls, taking everything out of her bureaus, [and] put them all in boxes [and] left [them] on her bed,"
http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/26/41f802f9653c2



The only way for her to have left things packed in boxes and on her bed (edited to add: and yet to never have unpacked in the first place when she moved in) was to never have slept there in all that time. I find that a bit odd sounding.
As I said, I cannot factually comment on the article in the daily collegian regarding everything out of her bureaus and taking all of her pictures off of her walls. However, please check out the second photo from the bottom on the left side of this link www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html) This is a photo of Maura and her boyfriend in her dorm room. As you can see, there are not pictures or even posters hanging near her desk.......if she were "in to" pictures/posters, I would assume that she would have one hanging over her desk, or at least near it.

Again, I cannot factually comment on Maura leaving things packed and on her bed, but it still fits with my habit (and that of Mrs. Rausch and Masterj) - If I were leaving for a week and I had not unpacked, I would have my unpacked bag on the bed to remove the items I would be taking with me, and I would most likely leave the *packed* bag that I would not be taking with me on the bed.

Any of you other ladies out there who make a habit of unpacking only as you find it necessary have any comments/opinons regarding these thoughts?


Bring Maura Home !

www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramurray.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramurray.html)

[docwho3]

. . .As to not having had unpacked her dorm room, Maura was in different dorm rooms during 2002 and 2003. It is also my understanding that she was required to remove her personal things over the holiday break, and not permitted to return to her dorm until Tues, Jan 27. The boyfriend's mother related that when Maura left her home after Christmas 2003 that she needed an additional suitcase to take home her Christmas gifts. When Mrs. Rausch retrieved the suitcase for her, Maura laughed because Mrs. Rausch still had clothing in it from the time they both had visited Lt Rausch in the spring of 2003. Maura remarked that they were very much alike: that she NEVER unpacked her things - she said her way of unpacking was to remove the clothing/items as needed and then after washing them she replaced them in the proper place. Because of the first hand knowledge of this story, and the fact that Maura only had two weekends at school before disappearing, one of which she spent with her Dad looking for a new car, it is my opinion that it is very likely that Maura may not have UNPACKED.

If this is in fact the way that Maura dealt with unpacking, I do not find it strange that her bureau drawers would have been empty and/or that there were no posters on the walls. I have been told that Maura was not one who plastered her walls with decorations. She had very simple tastes. I cannot comment on your reference to the news story stating that she had removed "pictures" from the walls. This may be true, or it may be a mistake. I do know there are many errors in the news articles.

But, even without knowing Maura, Masterj's post supports the lifestyle of unpacking as you go - it is very common among women, especially very busy women.Ok, It may or may not be common to fully unpack but how many of them just leave those bags and boxes too on the bed so they can't use the bed without moving those items and then replacing them every day? Even if, as you say, the items were only in the room for 2 weeks where did she sleep?

[Peabody]

Ok, It may or may not be common to fully unpack but how many of them just leave those bags and boxes too on the bed so they can't use the bed without moving those items and then replacing them every day? Even if, as you say, the items were only in the room for 2 weeks where did she sleep?


I did not mean to imply her bags were on her bed the entire time that she was at school. I have no factual knowledge of either bags or boxes being found on her bed after she went missing.

I was told that when the boyfriend went through the dorm room at the invitation of the UMass police, that there was a WP sweatshirt and some stuffed animals on her bed.

What I was saying, was IF it is true that there were boxes and bags on her bed that I personally do not find that unusal based on my routine method of packing for trips:


If I am packing for a trip and have not unpacked other bags/boxes as we are speculating that Maura may have done, I place my unpacked bags on my bed (for ease of going through them for the items I needed). Once I pack the
bag(s) I am taking with me, I leave the unpacked bags/boxes on my bed. This is exactly what I do now.......I always get out things I need as well as having to unpack the items that are left in my bags from the last trip that I took. So, when I leave on a trip it is common place for my bed to be littered with clothing and other bags with articles left in them that I am not taking with me. I feel that IF there were bags and boxes left on her bed, that this is a very likely explanation.

Of course I am speculating on what she may have done, but I am basing the speculation on the exact way that I pack. That is why I asked for comments/opinions from other women that use the same unorthodox method of not unpacking their bags until they need something from them, or when they take another trip.

Hope this clarifies my earlier post for you.

:)


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

As I said, I cannot factually comment on the article in the daily collegian regarding everything out of her bureaus and taking all of her pictures off of her walls. . .So you don't know?

. . .However, please check out the second photo from the bottom on the left side of this link www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html) This is a photo of Maura and her boyfriend in her dorm room. As you can see, there are not pictures or even posters hanging near her desk.......if she were "in to" pictures/posters, I would assume that she would have one hanging over her desk, or at least near it. . .In that pic I notice that she did in fact have a picture on one of the shelves in that book case so she might well have had other pics elsewhere in the room for all I know, either on shelves or on the wall on one of the 3 walls not shown in the pic. This pic only shows us one wall and you have not yet said which dorm room this was. Was this her last one or one of the previous ones you mentioned?

Note:I added color
. . .Again, I cannot factually comment on Maura leaving things packed and on her bed, but it still fits with my habit (and that of Mrs. Rausch and Masterj) - If I were leaving for a week and I had not unpacked, I would have my unpacked bag on the bed to remove the items I would be taking with me, and I would most likely leave the *packed* bag that I would not be taking with me on the bed. The aricle itself (which I had linked to (www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/26/41f802f9653c2)) does not say anything about a bag yet you keep referring to one. Why? The article I quoted said "Sometime between Sunday and Monday morning, she packed up all her belongings in her dorm room, to include taking all her pictures off the walls, taking everything out of her bureaus, [and] put them all in boxes [and] left [them] on her bed," Scarinza told WCVB-TV

Now I note 3 things here:
1. This quote was not the news reporter just editorializing and tossing in a description and jazzing things up for benefit of the story. This was a direct quote of someone in the case who should know what was going on. (Yes I am aware that there was some controversy over whether the also reported comment about some note either being to her boy friend or from him, but a note or letter being to or from is a far cry from boxes not existing and only being one or two bags.)
2. He said "Sometime between Sunday and Monday morning, . . .", which would lead one to believe that he knew when this was done. I would think that having spoken to students the L.E. would know if that were the case, that things were already unpacked before Sunday and then were packed "Sometime between Sunday and Monday morning". This, to my mind, casts doubt on the failure to unpack scenario.
3. This person quoted in the article I linked to was not just any yahoo out there but was a Lt. of the N.H. state police.

[docwho3]

. . .Hope this clarifies my earlier post for you.

:)


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)
Yes you have helped quite a bit in some of the things you said. I will think those things over but I think you can see from my previous post (which was being composed while you composed and wrote this post to which I am replying.) why I have reason to believe she had indeed packed things that were unpacked and not just packing some few things as you have said.

Note:My previous post may have sounded unnecessarily combative and although I do mean to discuss the points of the case I am not intending to be mean or just argue for no reason about something. I think it is good and possibly even necessary to look at all points of this case and I thank you for bringing your perspective to the discussion. This "packing" point in itself may or may not indicate whether she planned to leave but I think knowing whether or not she had packed & then repacked everything could be helpful.

[Peabody]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peabody
As I said, I cannot factually comment on the article in the daily collegian regarding everything out of her bureaus and taking all of her pictures off of her walls. . .

So you don't know?
The only person outside of LE that was in the dorm room was Maura's boyfriend. The only thing he told the family was that there was a WP sweatshirt,all of the stuffed animals that he had given her, and all of the cards and letters that he had mailed to her on the bed.

3. This person quoted in the article I linked to was not just any yahoo out there but was a Lt. of the N.H. state police

No I don't know. But I also do not trust the word of Lt. Scarinza. His own Sgt. Bruno told the family that Lt. Scarinza "meant that the note was from the boyfriend, not from Maura." It took months to get this comment of explanation form the state police AFTER Lt. Scarinza repeated on TV and in newspapers countless times that Maura had left a note for the boyfriend. He also repeatedly used "the note" as support for his suicide theory.

[Peabody]

Originally Posted by Peabody
. . .However, please check out the second photo from the bottom on the left side of this link www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html) This is a photo of Maura and her boyfriend in her dorm room. As you can see, there are not pictures or even posters hanging near her desk.......if she were "in to" pictures/posters, I would assume that she would have one hanging over her desk, or at least near it. . .



In that pic I notice that she did in fact have a picture on one of the shelves in that book case so she might well have had other pics elsewhere in the room for all I know, either on shelves or on the wall on one of the 3 walls not shown in the pic. This pic only shows us one wall and you have not yet said which dorm room this was. Was this her last one or one of the previous ones you mentioned?

I do not know which dorm room this picture was taken in. I believe the photo was taken in the fall of 2003.

I did not mean to say that she had no pictures in her room; only that it was possible that she had no pictures/posters hanging on her walls.

Of course I/we can only speculate whether or not she had pictures/posters on the wall.

She did have a photo of her boyfriend in her dorm room. I know for a fact that she packed it in her bag which was left in the abandoned car.

[Peabody]

The aricle itself (which I had linked to (http://www.dailycollegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2005/01/26/41f802f9653c2)) does not say anything about a bag yet you keep referring to one. Why? The article I quoted said "Sometime between Sunday and Monday morning, she packed up all her belongings in her dorm room, to include taking all her pictures off the walls, taking everything out of her bureaus, [and] put them all in boxes [and] left [them] on her bed," Scarinza told WCVB-TV



I am referring to a bag because I know that she had a large suitcase on loan from the boyfiend's mother that was filled with Christmas gifts (including clothing) when she left from OH and she did not have it with her when she vanished. Therefore, I am assuming that it was at least one of any number of possible unpacked bags in her room.

I continue to refer to bags because I know for certain that Maura had three bags in her car when she vanished: one bag packed with cold weather running gear, another packed with school books, lessons and the book "Without Peril", and a third bag with her clothing, personal items, both wall and auto cell phone chargers, jewelry, favorite stuffed animal from her boyfriend, and the photo of him which she kept in her dorm room. In addition, she had a small back pack which is missing with her.

Also, Maura had barely enough clothing with her to last a week which consisted only of jeans,sweatshirts, pajamas and underwear. The only additional shoes that she had were the running shoes she packed. These are a few of the reasons that I am convinced that she was not planning on running away, and that her plan was to do exactly as she had told her professors and employers: to be gone for a week.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

I am referring to a bag because I know that she had a large suitcase on loan from the boyfiend's mother that was filled with Christmas gifts (including clothing) when she left from OH and she did not have it with her when she vanished. Therefore, I am assuming that it was at least one of any number of possible unpacked bags in her room. . . That is worth checking into because if those bags were in fact not found in the room but instead things were actually in boxes one has to wonder what happened to the bags? And who knows what direction the answer to that question might take things.

. . .I continue to refer to bags because I know for certain that Maura had three bags in her car when she vanished: . . .
I was asking why you referred to bags as being left in her room. You had not referred to her having not unpacked the bags in her car. Thanks for the info anyway. It might prove helpful at some point.

. . .Also, Maura had barely enough clothing with her to last a week which consisted only of jeans,sweatshirts, pajamas and underwear. The only additional shoes that she had were the running shoes she packed. These are a few of the reasons that I am convinced that she was not planning on running away, and that her plan was to do exactly as she had told her professors and employers: to be gone for a week. . .If she had intended to retrieve the other packed things from her room then she would not need to have taken much with her in that first trip. Without having the accident and thus calling attention to things much earlier than planned she would very likely have had uninterrupted time to do just that.
This is true whether or not she packed things that were already unpacked or whether she meant to pick up things that she had never unpacked. It (planned disappearance scenario) would be easier for people to see if they were packed after having been unpacked as that more clearly demonstrates intent but it is not necessary for the planned disappearance scenario to hold true. She could as easily have returned for the already packed things either way, except for that accident throwing off her timing.

[docwho3]

. . .No I don't know. But I also do not trust the word of Lt. Scarinza. His own Sgt. Bruno told the family that Lt. Scarinza "meant that the note was from the boyfriend, not from Maura." It took months to get this comment of explanation form the state police AFTER Lt. Scarinza repeated on TV and in newspapers countless times that Maura had left a note for the boyfriend. He also repeatedly used "the note" as support for his suicide theory.Re: ". . .Scarinza repeated on TV and in newspapers countless times . . ."
I do not know if this happened in many separate interviews or if this was mostly a case of one interveiw being quoted in news print and also the one TV interview being replayed many times by news media but in either case I can understand how notes in a case file about a letter or letters concerning her boyfriend could be either misunderstood or even just mis spoken about without it being a major point in the actual investigation as conducted by the investigating officers. It was unfortunate to have happened and I am sure it seemed awful to the family especially when they probably felt the investigation was not moving fast enough or thorough enough to suit them even though that is often how family feel according to what I have read in so many of these cases.

Probably L.E. was looking into different possibilities over time and I can see where that may seem as being incompetent to family once they are already very angry at L.E. but I do not see it as being poor work on the part of L.E. but rather just part of ongoing investigation.

Honestly I know in these cases that often the family does not want to think of the possibility of suicide and they hate to think that a loved one would actually leave them by running away. It is natural for them to feel that way but I can't look at them "knowing she would never do that" in the same way I can look at a phyisical clue in the hand such as a blood stained knife in the car seat because so often in other cases family who felt the same way turned out to be wrong. So far in this case the evidence points to a voluntary leaving and not to any crime.

If a body turns up with evidence of foul play or someone confesses to a crime or they find a bloody knife in the car or the bus driver and neighbor are proven to be sex fiends or crazy murderers or if a serial killer is caught somewhere with evidence connecting him/her to Maura or if a body turns up having died of natural causes - then I will know that she did not leave on her own. But so far, due to the massive searches that were done and the fact that 2 people saw her that night at the accident scene which in effect pretty much keeps each of them honest, I have to go with the evidence which points to her having planned to disappear. At least that evidence has been reported in more than one news article and by different news sites. Saying she planned to go away for a few days due to burn out is still saying voluntary leaving. It just does not say for sure how long she planned to leave for. We obviously differ on that point.

The stranger abduction theory, while not impossible, fails to explain why she took the things she did and it has so little chance of having happened at just the right time to be at the scene of an unplanned accident and to avoid being seen by two witnesses that it asks one to lean towards the unlikely rather than to accept the most likely and reasonable interpretation of the facts as they are known at this time.

Note:There are a few more angles to this case that I am currently mulling over and if any of those bear fruit I will certainly pass them on.

[Peabody]

Re: ". . .Scarinza repeated on TV and in newspapers countless times . . ."
I do not know if this happened in many separate interviews or if this was mostly a case of one interveiw being quoted in news print and also the one TV interview being replayed many times by news media but in either case I can understand how notes in a case file about a letter or letters concerning her boyfriend could be either misunderstood or even just mis spoken about without it being a major point in the actual investigation as conducted by the investigating officers. It was unfortunate to have happened and I am sure it seemed awful to the family especially when they probably felt the investigation was not moving fast enough or thorough enough to suit them even though that is often how family feel according to what I have read in so many of these cases.


It was not the case of ONE interview being played multiple times.

Lt. Scarinza made it a point to refer to "a note/letter from Maura to her boyfriend" in numerous interviews and throughout a special aired out of Boston on Channel 5 on the show 'Chronicle' entitled 'Where is Maura Murray'.

Neither he nor his department originally responded to either of the boyfriend's and family's request to account/explain his constant references to the note "from Maura to the boyfriend".

The boyfriend was convinced that there was no note from Maura because of his going through her room to see if there was anything there that would give him a clue as to her missing (He reported to LE that he could discern no clue from the room).

It may be that Lt. Scarinza misunderstood initially, and that would not be anything that he should be faulted for.

However, it remains a fact that from the time of Lt. Scarinza's first report to the media of a "note from Maura to her boyfriend" that efforts were made on behalf of Lt. Rausch and Mr. Murray to have the information confirmed as true or corrected if in error.

Yet, it is difficult to respect or give Lt. Scarinza or his department credit when it took them approximately 2 months to return a call to Mr. Murray only to say that "Lt. Scarinza *meant* a letter from the boyfriend to Maura." Neither Lt. Scarinza nor his department **have ever issued a statement to the media correcting the misinformation** except for a mention in a press release with a meeting of the VT SP where it was simply noted that there was a note from the boyfriend to Maura indicating a troubled relationship. For the average reader, this could simply be interpreted as *another piece of correspondence* in addition to Lt. Scarinza's initial statements regarding "a note/letter from Maura to her boyfriend."

The boyfriend took issue with this information as well because as I mentioned earlier, ALL of his letters to Maura were together and on her bed. There was indeed a letter/letters referencing a troubled time in their relationship. But, that was LONG before she went missing, and before he had graduated from WP. So, it is my opinion that for reasons unknown the NH SP continued to place their spin on the investigation.

When I attempted to access the link to this Press Release, I received a message stating that the site is no longer available. I may have ithe information in my records, but currently do not have time to search for it.

However, If you go to http://www.dps.state.vt.us/vtsp/maitland.htm the Press Release that I am referencing was: The Vermont State Police/New Hampshire State Police Joint Press Release dated June 8 2004.

In the Press Release there was a summary of Brianna Maitland's case by the VT SP and a summary of Maura's case by the NH SP. A comparison of the outlines of the investigations was appalling. It was evident that VT LE had taken a much more serious, indepth and professional approach to Brianna's missing than the NH LE had taken in Maura's case. I wonder if this is the reason the links are no longer available?????

Does anyone have this Press Release at hand in their records?


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[docwho3]

. . .The boyfriend took issue with this information as well because as I mentioned earlier, ALL of his letters to Maura were together and on her bed. . .. . .There was indeed a letter/letters referencing a troubled time in their relationship. But, that was LONG before she went missing, and before he had graduated from WP. So, it is my opinion that for reasons unknown the NH SP continued to place their spin on the investigation. . .If indeed all his letters to her were together on her bed I can see where that might be viewed as significant by L.E. when investigating and when put together with at least one of those letters having indicated some problems in the relationship having existed even if before she went missing.
I am not sure that qualifies as L.E. somehow being sinister and putting their own dark spin on things. Given the other facts as known about her setting up false reasons to have left work & school and her having bought tylenol (edited to add:and booze) and having withdrawn most of the money from her bank account their "spin" seems reasonable to me.

I have so far avoided getting into any sort of real discussion concerning the work of L.E. in this case because I do not want to upset any of Maura's family (and I am sure that even these case discussions must be hard enough on them if they read them) but I think that one thing should have quietly been said to them by a good and close friend (and not in a forum) a long time back and that is:Even though L.E. are professionals they are still human and ranting at them in the press and publically jumping to always place everything they say and do in a sinister light certainly hurts their (the family's) relationship with L.E. and those are the very people that are needed to help solve the case. That holds true whether or not family is right or L.E. is right. It seems obvious to me just reading the news accounts that there were problems early on in the relationship.

Any problems with L.E. should be saved to be dealt with after the investigation is done. I do not know if it is possible to repair that relationship after all that has gone on but I think it might be possible.

(looks at watch) Oops, I am running out of time. Have to take my wife to the eye doctor. Don't have time to discuss the L.E. right now & it doesn't help solve the case anyway.

Got to go. Smiles to all.

[Peabody]

I have so far avoided getting into any sort of real discussion concerning the work of L.E. in this case because I do not want to upset any of Maura's family (and I am sure that even these case discussions must be hard enough on them if they read them) but I think that one thing should have quietly been said to them by a good and close friend (and not in a forum) a long time back and that is:Even though L.E. are professionals they are still human and ranting at them in the press and publically jumping to always place everything they say and do in a sinister light certainly hurts their (the family's) relationship with L.E. and those are the very people that are needed to help solve the case. That holds true whether or not family is right or L.E. is right. It seems obvious to me just reading the news accounts that there were problems early on in the relationship.

Any problems with L.E. should be saved to be dealt with after the investigation is done. I do not know if it is possible to repair that relationship after all that has gone on but I think it might be possible.
Color added by Peabody for emphasis

Dear Doc,

One advantage that I have over most websleuthers is personal contact with many, many parties connected with Maura: family and friends. I am not related to Maura and although I am very connected to her case honestly believe that I am objective about it. I do confess to being emotionally attached to it.

There is no doubt that your assessment "ranting at them (LE) in the press and publically jumping to always place everything they say and do in a sinister light certainly hurts their (the family's) relationship with L.E." is true and from my understanding, no-one would agree with you more than Fred Murray who has been the most outspoken and critical of LE.

However, Doc, consider for a moment that your lovely wife is missing; that there is a certain situation that would not even have you suspecting that she is missing (Maura was at college and Dad did not talk to her daily - in fact he had just left her the day before she went missing). When the police discover your wife is missing and they know for a certainty that it is her, not you driving your car; they wait 24 hours to notify you; they wait at least 36 ours to do any type of search for her; they *immediately* tell you upon your arrival (you are 5 hours away) that she was suicidal because she had alcohol, aspirin and tylenol pm in her car (while I do not take alcohol with me on any trip, I always have aspirin and some sort of sleep aide, as well as numerous other over-the-counter medicines; I believe this is typical of most women - their purses usually have an assortment of pills EVEN when they are not traveling - even combined with the alcohol, I can find no young woman who believes this is proof of suicidal tendencies). Because they find no "evidence" of a struggle, they tell you she left on her own and that because she is 21 she has the "right to go missing". End of investigation on Wednesday, February 11. (Until the Murray's refused to let the investigation end. And they did so initially in a very tactful manner through the media. As a result of the media, another search was done on Thurs., Feburary 19 along with the subsequent searches. I agree with the family that had they not kept the pressure on the final search for Maura would have been 2/11.)

Again, no one disputes Maura's right to voluntarily go missing. But is that the way you would want your wife's missing to be dismissed? Would you go quietly into the night when you learn that as promised the LE never even checked the bus station? It is so easy for any of us to be critical of others. But, we will never know how we might react in the same circumstances.

I know for certainty that Fred Murray insisted for a consideral period of time that EVERYONE in the family, those involved in the search and those who spoke to the media to report NH LE as being great guys with insufficient resources. (I haven't the time to look up the new articles, but if you do, I would suggest at least the Caledonian Record to confirm this). Privately, he like all of the people involved, were struggling that they could get no help from NH LE. And he eventually vented his anger and frustration with the only people that could help and would not - the LE. Perhaps not wise, but in my opinion, most understandable and perhaps under his emotional duress, unavoidable.

Should not LE take into consideration the emotional/mental state of mind of the citizens they need to help? Do they not have any responsibility to work in a professional manner while understanding the human emotion and fear involved in having a daughter literally vanish from the face of the earth?

Now as to your statement, "Any problems with L.E. should be saved to be dealt with after the investigation is done." That was the entire problem: NH LE was not doing an investigation and would not accept help from other agencies, most notably the FBI. (I am aware of news articles stating the NH invited the FBI. However, to appease Mr. Murray, they asked them only to interrogate friends at UMass and in Maura's hometown. They were never asked to be involved in the investigation at NH. I could give you a list of assistance that they were denied, including the use of a special MA SP computer case data base)

As to mending the relationship, everyone should recognize that it takes both sides to accomplish any reconcilation.

Hopefully, NH LE is very busy behind the scenes working on Maura's case. The family has not been contacted by LE for more months than I can recoundt. It would seem to me that they could legally solve the case IF she is a runaway. I cannot imagine any law being broken if they announced that Maura had been located, alive and well, but did not want her location revealed. What a feather in their cap and such vindication in the case.

I agree with you that there are 3 possible basic explanations to Maura's case:

1. She succumbed to the elements.

2. She was harmed by someone.

3. She voluntarily ran away.

I pray each day that # 3 is the correct explanation, but I just cannot buy that with the motivation and fortitude she had already displayed in her young life combined by all accounts of her strong love for her family that she would choose to run away. (I will leave the boyfriend out of it, but to me, one strong consideration that is difficult to reconcile is that she got fed up with not only her family, but also her boyfriend or vice-a-versa. With them almost a continent apart, it would have been most easy for her to turn her back on one without turning her back on both. Leaving her boyfriend would be easy; he is in the army and gets very little leave to come calling. All she had to do was throw away his letters, not answer his emails or his phone calls. To leave her family, all she had to do was move in with the boyfriend and arrange to start her pre-arranged job in OK sooner than summer. Turning her back on her family or perhaps just those who she had "had it with" would be easy. Each of these scenarios would be much simpler and easier than running away. Sadly, to me, this leaves me to believe that #1 or #2 are more likely explanations of Maura's missing)


(I will be unable to repond to posts for several days)



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[Peabody]

Originally Posted by Peabody
At present, the "Forum" portion of Maura's website is currently down for maintenance. Helena Murray has asked that I post this information for you. The Forum will be back as soon as possible and the family asks your pardon for any inconvenince.



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The Forum on Maura's site is back
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[docwho3]

. . .There is no doubt that your assessment "ranting at them (LE) in the press and publically jumping to always place everything they say and do in a sinister light certainly hurts their (the family's) relationship with L.E." is true and from my understanding, no-one would agree with you more than Fred Murray who has been the most outspoken and critical of LE.. .
To continue this discussion concerning the family and L.E. would require me to post things that might be upsetting to the family and their friends and I don't see anything helpful coming from that at this time. I have made a point about it and you have responded. I think I will let it go at that for now.

As to the three possibilities you mentioned:
As I have said in previous posts, I don't think it was necessarily that Maura was getting away from those she had "had it" with and I don't think that it has to be that family is to blame either. I think there was an alternate possibilty, that Maura felt a compulsion that she had no real control over at that time. It is my hope that (if she is still alive at that time) sometime in the future she will become able to again reach out to the family.

[LillyRush]

docwho, Thank you for the PM about the book. ;)

The thing with the book is that it could have an all or nothing connection to what was going on with her. I do wonder - why? - if the book was that important to her on that trip she would have left it behind in the car. So, either, she was too intoxicated to even think about what to take...Or, it really didn't have all that much significance to her, just a book brought along to read during down time..Or, she thought she was only going to walk away for a little while and would be right back..?

I still don't understand where she would have thought she was going to go by walking away in the night like that (assuming she did) even if it was just due to concern over getting caught as DUI. That is the whole reason why the bus driver came under suspicion for me in the beginning of all this. Or, really, anyone who might have seen her if she did in fact start walking down the street. There was always that guy who claimed he didn't realize until several months later that a girl he saw walking that night might have been Maura.

I still wonder also if it wasn't an accident, similar to what happened with Lynn Moran. Are there mountain drop-offs right around the area where she could have accidentally fallen without seeing the drop, especially while under the influence?

[CyberLaw]

From the very start the "family" has been very vocal in their views which are contrary to LE. LE has investigative resources and "tips" that the family will not be privvy to.

The situation between LE and the "family" has been strained from the start. Little wonder LE is not forthcoming with the "family".

Who knows how the family will spin this information.

You see if my adult child suddenly went missing, I would Thank God everyday if LE told me that they feel my adult child ran away and there is no evidence of harming coming to my child.

This family is exactly the oppostite. They choose to believe that Maura is dead rather then believe that Maura ran away from them.

I guess realtiy is hard to accept............

[docwho3]

. . .The thing with the book is that it could have an all or nothing connection to what was going on with her. . .Not sure why you think that. I think she thought that intro part to the marked chapter would be a nice touch to her goodbye scene and it was something from her dad so it would mean doubly more that way when used in the scene but when she had the accident I think she grabbed up the back pack and headed down the road a little ways to meet up with he helper following behind. She was likely rattled and if she had any of that booze to drink she may have been a little befuddled. She had already been seen by witnesses and knew they would probably call it in to the police. I think she felt all she had time to do was to grab up one thing and jog off towards the oncoming helper. She never got to stage the goodbye scene or to return for the stuff in her dorm. I suppose I could theorize that she had realized that leaving the book in the car with its bookmark card and picture of her brother in that area on that road was almost as good as staging her goodbye scene . . . but I don't see any evidence to indicate that it was a conscious decision that night so I have not theorized about that.

I take it you have read the work up I posted starting on post 121?

If so then I don't know how else to say it at this time. I did say in those posts that with her track skills it is possible she might have wandered off a very long ways from the road and maybe farther than was searched but there were many searches and even her own father searched. He should be well aware of her physical abilities in the wilderness as they had hiked and climbed together before. So I can't very well say he doesn't know how far he should have searched.

There are some things I can't in my own mind rule out yet and I posted about those in the workup. The solution is not complete but so far the evidence seems to indicate a willful adult runaway to me. Whether she made it freedom or was doublecrossed is something else I can't yet say but with no blood, no body, and no captured killer being connected to her in any way I have to go with the odds being in favor of her being alive and on her own.

[Peabody]

Not sure why you think that. I think she thought that intro part to the marked chapter would be a nice touch to her goodbye scene and it was something from her dad so it would mean doubly more that way when used in the scene but when she had the accident I think she grabbed up the back pack and headed down the road a little ways to meet up with he helper following behind. She was likely rattled and if she had any of that booze to drink she may have been a little befuddled. She had already been seen by witnesses and knew they would probably call it in to the police. I think she felt all she had time to do was to grab up one thing and jog off towards the oncoming helper. She never got to stage the goodbye scene or to return for the stuff in her dorm. I suppose I could theorize that she had realized that leaving the book in the car with its bookmark card and picture of her brother in that area on that road was almost as good as staging her goodbye scene . . . but I don't see any evidence to indicate that it was a conscious decision that night so I have not theorized about that.

The book was not left laying in the car. It was packed in one of the bags with her personal belongings. Maura routinely used photographs as bookmarks. The photo was of her brother Kurtis in his baseball uniform and was several yrs old.

She also *left* behind in the car her favorite photo of her boyfriend, the stuffed animal that he had given her yrs earlier with which she always slept, and numerous other items which were known to be very special and of sentimental value to her, as well as very valuable jewelry.

None of us can say what Maura's intentions were. But, even the police do not think nor ever implied that the accident might have been staged.

One other interesting fact is that a great number of local citizens told the family from the beginning that they could not accept the notion that Maura was possibly intoxicated. They are of the strong opinion that it is not humanly possible to reach the point where Maura had her accident (5-6 miles east of Route 302) while driving intoxicated without having an accident much sooner that where her car spun on the ice. Maura was driving in the pitch dark with snow falling copmbined with fog and mist in the atmosphere from the river/ice on a very snakey, curvey and unfamiliar road. To the best of anyone's knowledge, although Maura was VERY familiar with the Bartlett NH area, she had never traveled there from Amherst which took her up the VT interstate parallel to the CT River, then east on 302 to 112 where she had her accident. Had she not had the accident and continued on 112, she would have arrived in Bartlett NH, her familar spot to stay on camping, hiking trips as well as the locaton of the condo in which she attempted to make arrangements to stay. Maura had always traveled from eastern MA to Bartlett which took her on a completely different route.

I would also add that even some of the media mentioned the difficulty they had traveling route 112 while they were assisting us. The opinion that Maura would never have succeeded in traveling that 5-6 miles while intoxicated was their opinion as well.


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[Peabody]

I still wonder also if it wasn't an accident, similar to what happened with Lynn Moran. Are there mountain drop-offs right around the area where she could have accidentally fallen without seeing the drop, especially while under the influence?


The area is very rugged with rivers, ravines and mountains.

I would think anything is possible.

However, the Murrays and the Rausches followed all footprints in the area for the first two weeks and then different Murray family members stayed on for weeks after searching. I don't think one can absolutely rule out that Maura did not wander off, especially if she was confused. Mr. Murray still searches.

Unless she was disoriented, I cannot fanthom that EVEN if she was alluding the police that she would have left the road and traveled into the woods. As dark as the area is, she would have no need to do much more than duck behind a snow bank to prevent from being seen.

IF she headed east on foot, for whatever reason, she would have only gone approx a mile at which time she would have entered 15-16 miles of the National Forest with no homes.........this is the location of the alledged sighting by the construction worker and is the reason that I find it so perplexing: what person would drive by in the wilderness, knowing that someone may be alone in 12 degree, snowy weather??? If she headed west, she would have met the police as they arrived on the scene.

There is a poster (Bob'sdad I believe) on Maura's website that did an experiment with light/dark. It is amazing how little visability there was that night/location. I see this as a great hindrance as well as assistance to Maura if she was fleeing: she would have difficulty in seeing, but she would have almost perfect cover from being seen.

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[LillyRush]

docwho, No, I'm sorry I did not read your work-up of the situation on the previous page. I haven't read all the recent thread pages yet. I was just responding about your PM because I hadn't replied yet. I will try to catch up on the recent posts as soon as I can. ;)

cyberlaw, deep down inside, you love me - i know it! lol :blowkiss: :cool:

peabody, thanks for the additional info tonight. :)

[docwho3]

The book was not left laying in the car. It was packed in one of the bags with her personal belongings. Maura routinely used photographs as bookmarks. The photo was of her brother Kurtis in his baseball uniform and was several yrs old. . . That's fine as I have said before it was to be used at the destination where a staged scene was to take place and as I said in previous post I did not theorize the book was deliberately used to stage a scene at the accident at the last minute since there was no evidence of that being the case. I had merely pointed out that her knowing those items would be found there might have crossed her mind as being enough in light of her limitations due to having the unplanned accident and I am not even certain she thought of that much. I think she was rattled by the unexpected event, grabbed her back pack & left, most likely to be picked up by her helper. I am not saying alot about the johnny-come-lately witness that remembered spotting her after it had been in the papers. Lots of people "remember" things after reading them in the paper. I do not know if he is credible or not but in any case it was dark so his position might have been harder to judge than in daylight and perhaps unsure at that time of night. And you yourself have supplied one hurdle to his story being accepted as fact in that he left her to herself on such a night in such conditions. That in itself raises red flags to my mind to the story having happened at all. But evenif he saw her it does not preclude her being picked up by her helper and that is another reason I am not bothering with him too much at this time.

. . .She also *left* behind in the car her favorite photo of her boyfriend, the stuffed animal that he had given her yrs earlier with which she always slept, and numerous other items which were known to be very special and of sentimental value to her, as well as very valuable jewelry. . .I will later post about what she took or what she left.

What is interesting is to ask what was in that backpack? What could have been in that that she would grab it up? Since you may know whats missing why not share what you believe she actually took? (More on that sharing question in a moment.)



. . .None of us can say what Maura's intentions were. But, even the police do not think nor ever implied that the accident might have been staged. . . Neither have I said that as I previously stated. I could have theorized along those lines but did not due to lack of evidence to indicate that.

. . .One other interesting fact is that a great number of local citizens told the family from the beginning that they could not accept the notion that Maura was possibly intoxicated. They are of the strong opinion that it is not humanly possible to reach the point where Maura had her accident (5-6 miles east of Route 302) while driving intoxicated without having an accident much sooner that where her car spun on the ice. . .I care nothing for their opinions since the facts are that aclohol was involved in some way and the evidence has shown that. I don't care if she was intoxicated or not. It is a possibility but is not crucial to my understanding of what I think most likely took place. She had an unplanned accident. That alone usually shakes a person up and she allegedly hit the windhield hard enough to spider it and that too can shake one up and leave one in less than their usual clear, quick thinking state. She was leaving her old life behind secretly and wished to not have that fact known until she was ready for it to be revealed and that accident was the one thing she had not totally planned on. It drew attention to her too fast for her to do much besides run and that is enough to know. I am not being uncaring but people opining about what amounts to a non essential factor in the case at this point is something I feel ok with passing by for now.

. . .Maura was driving in the pitch dark with snow falling combined with fog and mist in the atmosphere from the river/ice on a very snakey, curvey and unfamiliar road. . . First time as far as I remember hearing of this bit about fog that night but, again, it is not essential to the case. (And it has been awhile since I went back over all the old news reports so maybe I just don't remember having read it even if I did.)

One more note about the jewelry, there might be many reasons for not taking it with her but I think this might be another casualty of the unplanned accident. Where exactly in all that stuff in the car was the jewelry found?

(Edited to remove a section in the interest of keeping the peace.)

More on that question I mentioned before:Why not share all of what you know and are allowed to release, in a multi post if necessary, and let people work with all the allowable facts instead of this dribbling things out little by little? Sure keep back one or two things as needed to weed out false confessions by people but then share the rest. Instead of doing a work up of a theory as I did, do a complete workup of what facts are known such as what was taken and what left behind and how those things were postitioned, as in or on a car seat or in a box buried somewhere in the car or back in her room in a box or a bag etc. If Maura paid for tylenol, how was it paid? by cash or credit card? Did she leave all of the credit cards behind or take some but just fail to use them?

Maybe color controversial facts in orange and known lies such as Maura's death-in-the-family excuse as red along with any other verifiable lies (as opposed to possible misstatements which might be orange)told by any other person in the case. No opinions but just the facts as known both good and bad.

It just seems a waste to have people running all over the web like a silly easter egg hunt looking at news reports to understand the entire story(even if some of those news reports are linked from the Maura Murray website) when they could read one good workup and then use the links as verification for the facts which are mentioned in news reports. You could be a big help in that way (beyond what you already do.)

[docwho3]

About the things packed in the car:
There seem to have been two types of things taken in the car.
One type was made up of things needed to stage the goodbye scene and the other type was made up of things either needed short term or things that she would want with her even if someone tumbled to her being gone sooner than she had planned. Therefore she had the stuffed animal, the jewelry and a few clothes etc.

I think she had planned on almost every possibiity including having someone follow her on the same route in case that car broke downbut she just didn't plan on having an accident and being seen right away by at least two people, and at least one of which stopped and spoke to her and offered to call police for her.

That shook her up and radically changed things from a near picture perfect plan to a scramble to get away before her helper could be seen and described. There was simply no time to unpack the car and too much risk of being seen and either caught at the scene or soon after. She knew a school bus driver would likely try to call it in. Its after dark and I don't know if the dome light worked but she managed to grab at least one item, the back pack, and scoot.

[docwho3]

I don't know how far she went before being picked up by her helper as that would depend on how long behind her in time that person had followed. I think the plan was that if the helper did not see Maura's car stopped and broken down at the side of the road then they would meet up at the preplanned staging place for the goodbye scene. The helper would not need to follow along right behind Maura but just take the same route a little while back and then meet and transport Maura from the staging place (where her old car was to be left) probably to another car. Then I think the plan was to return to pick up Maura's stuff from the dorm room if no one had yet tumbled to her being gone. The accident changed things. All that stuff is pretty much mentioned in the workup posted starting with post 121.

Who was that helper? One of her known friends who has not taken a lie detector test and has not felt obligated to violate her friends confidence since no law was being broken for Maura to choose to disappear? Or had she met someone in her security job that promised to get her a new identity fast . . .for a price . . maybe those jewels? And if those jewels were left behind and no payment was to be forthcoming would helper have decided to take payment in his own way?

Or had she asked the boyfriend or a relative of one of her acquaintances to help out? Or did she get some student to help that would be leaving to go out of the country soon? Maura knew who would have access to her cell phone records so I doubt she would have used that in hooking up with her helper unless the number called would be thought to be part of her normal routine. But there are always land lines and payphones etc. or borrowing someone elses cell or buying a second cell of her own.

I still think there is a helper and that he (I think it might be a he but it doesn't have to be) knows where he took Maura. I don't know where the story would go from that point as it depends on what helper tells and what helper did.

If Maura is still alive and relatively well I think it would be very important to know just how best to approach her or she might rabbit again or even suicide.

[LButler]

docwho3 ... I find your posts very thought-provoking. It seems I hear new info on this every time I read here or on her website and it's tough keeping everything straight. Here's some of my thoughts:

It does seem as though the packing up of her dorm room, the things she took with her ..... were symbolic of something - leaving her old life behind and taking a new road - I'm not sure. But, I don't feel that Maura was even thinking about suicide.

However, the BD and construction guy have really cast themselves in GUILT in my opinion.

I think the answer to this mystery is some strange mixture of the theory of her running away, the "accident" and her subsequent contact with BD and CS. This story just seems to get stranger every time I come back to it.

[Masterj]

As I mentioned in a previous post, I am very into photography, and have taken many pictures along RT 112. I have many that I would like to link to, just so people can understand the area full of streams, mountains and woods. I'll try to scan them in this weekend and post a link to them.

As I've said before - I was a bit creeped out and nervous driving on this road during broad daylight. I can't IMAGINE driving at night or even a little tipsy. I was always warned not to drive that route at night during the winter especially, due to the conditions.

[docwho3]

docwho3 ... I find your posts very thought-provoking. It seems I hear new info on this every time I read here or on her website and it's tough keeping everything straight. Here's some of my thoughts:

It does seem as though the packing up of her dorm room, the things she took with her ..... were symbolic of something - leaving her old life behind and taking a new road - I'm not sure. But, I don't feel that Maura was even thinking about suicide.

However, the BD and construction guy have really cast themselves in GUILT in my opinion.

I think the answer to this mystery is some strange mixture of the theory of her running away, the "accident" and her subsequent contact with BD and CS. This story just seems to get stranger every time I come back to it.Well, due to the other witness being there at the time I tend to overlook the busdriver as a potential killer for the time being. It would have been pretty risky for him knowing that the other neighbor was likely watching and that neighbor had actually called in the accident, but if Peabody is correct in his assertion that "Maura was driving in the pitch dark with snow falling copmbined with fog and mist in the atmosphere from the river/ice on a very snakey, curvey and unfamiliar" then it makes one wonder how the construction person was able to drive by and see Maura in the snow and fog from any distance at all and still describe her well enough to police days later to convince them it was a legitimate sighting. As you know when driving in fog objects and even people seem to suddenly appear out of nowhere as you get close enough to see them through the fog and if you are in a car at night then you are very quickly past them and they are out of sight behind you where headlights are not showing. That means he had to have seen her close to the car (as opposed to far away) and then only for a few seconds at most (if his story is true) and yet still have been able to accurately describe her later.

This leads me to think that either Peabody was wrong about conditions that night or the construction man lied about driving by and not stopping or that the construction man never saw her at all. The fact that he inserted himself into the case as a witness also casts doubt on his being involved but it is not totally unheard of for a killer to insert himself into a case but it is more often that people are just attention seekers (as opposed to being killers.)

As I said I don't think he had anything to do with her disappearance but I present this thought in case it helps.

[Hammerized]

This leads me to think that either Peabody was wrong about conditions that night or the construction man lied about driving by and not stopping or that the construction man never saw her at all. The fact that he inserted himself into the case as a witness also casts doubt on his being involved but it is not totally unheard of for a killer to insert himself into a case but it is more often that people are just attention seekers (as opposed to being killers.)
(emphasis added)

Docwho, Peabody, and others... Thank you for this most recent discussion material.

In my post from 10/11, http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=841653&postcount=39 ,
I noted that a mysterious killing (execution, by all accounts) of a seemingly simple, laid-back man in the construction trade (mason) occurred in the area where Maura was last seen.

This murder of Tom Conrad is an ongoing investigation, and not much is being said about it. Of course, that's pretty weird. I guess because this crime, as well as Maura's disappearance, occurred in my part of the country, my ears are pricked for any crime news- however offbeat.

Regarding the book Not Without Peril, I have to say that I own a copy, though I cannot locate it. I do know that my hardcover copy- also autographed by Nick Howe- contains many topo maps of the trails, and photographs from years past. Not only is this book somewhat of a bible to the hikers who love the Presidential range, but it is also a distillation of the most sage AMC advice. It is not a surprise that a hiker who loves the range like Maura apparently did would own this book!

Concerning the bookmark Maura placed (card + photo) in the McDonald/Tavis Barr chapter of the book: I wonder if Maura hadn't planned on volunteering for a spell at the very Hut mentioned in that chapter. Much of the help in the range is volunteer. From her father's accounts, Maura was pretty familiar with some of the trails and her love and respect of them would certainly count her in as a possble volunteer guide.

Then again, all may be as it seems: I have taken this book with me on trips, too. It contains short stories concerning the danger to hikers in the Presidential range that span more than a century. I suppose that people not familiar with the NH mountain hiking experience would question Maura's interest in this book... I do not. I really do not see any hidden meaning in her attraction to this book. (God help me if I were to disappear and people dissected the reading material I left at MY last known location. LOL!)

Sometimes, a rose is just a rose. While it is always good, in my opinion, to explore even the most outside chances based upon clues, I do think some make too much of Maura's attention to this book. But again, I guess that's because of my own interest in this book.

And many could say the same about the implication of my link to a "non-related" murder in the area. ;)

Above all, you guys have once again provided much food for thought. It is always a pleasure to read well-thought-out theories backed with sound reasoning. However off-the-wall they may seem on their face.

[docwho3]

. . .Concerning the bookmark Maura placed (card + photo) in the McDonald/Tavis Barr chapter of the book: I wonder if Maura hadn't planned on volunteering for a spell at the very Hut mentioned in that chapter. Much of the help in the range is volunteer. From her father's accounts, Maura was pretty familiar with some of the trails and her love and respect of them would certainly count her in as a possble volunteer guide. . .If that one chapter about "Life or Death" was the only part of the case to be considered I might agree but when taken with the totality of the evidence, and that is how it should be considered, it is hard to ignore its possible significance.

. . .(God help me if I were to disappear and people dissected the reading material I left at MY last known location. LOL!). . .If you ever mark and leave behind a chapter in a book about llife or death (that was a special gift from your father)by using an old pic of your brother and a halmark card then take most of the money out of your bank account, pack up the things in your room and then disappear then yes I would say people will certainly take that into account as some of us have in the Maura Murray case. In the total of that info it is not all that far fetched a thing to do either.

. . .And many could say the same about the implication of my link to a "non-related" murder in the area. ;) . . .If you can provide a link to the case such as the the victem working with the construction man witness in the Maura murray case it would certainly be worth pursuing and I encourage you to follow up on it.

[docwho3]

Speaking of constructionworker who may be serial rapist/killers:

O'Leary, who immediately dispatched three Waterbury detectives to Saratoga Springs, said Regan had been in New York for two weeks working at a relative's construction project. O'Leary said Regan had probably stalked the girl because of the way he had positioned his van for the attack. The sliding door was positioned right next to the driver's door. When the student, a cross country star on one of the premiere teams in the country, went to open her door after practice, Regan is accused of opening the sliding door of his van, grabbing her by the waist, covering her mouth, and attempting to drag her into the van.
http://www.waterburyobserver.com/worxcms_published/news_54.shtml
http://www.waterburyobserver.com/worxcms_published/news_54.shtml

Makes me wonder where he was in feb/2004. I believe they are in process of looking deeply into his back history.

[murraydwyer]

Kelly...sorry to be so long in responding to your question...I see the discussion has gone on in my absence...

As to whether police were checking Maura's social security information...the last time I heard it discussed was in Februrary and they were.

[Kelly]

I figured they were, but I wanted to check. Thanks!

Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski
President and Founder,
Project Jason
www.projectjason.org
Read our blog about missing persons:
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/

[hydemi]

Dear P,
you had said I think that you would be away a few days but I did send you a private message on this site yesterday, 12/2. thanks again.

[LillyRush]

Question - If she was meeting up with someone and this was the point where they were to find each other - how would she let them know that she had gotten there? Remember cell phones didn't work in this area. So unless she had her arrival time down to a tee, I'm unsure of how she would have been able to successfully carry out any type of meeting arrangement.

I'm not saying that it couldn't be possible at all, but just seems like there would be some obstacles involved...with the lack of cell phone capability and being unsure of exact arrival time due to the road conditions.

I'd like to know a little more about the condo that she was trying to reserve via phone before leaving. Was it for just for her? Did she mention whether more than one person would be staying there?

[docwho3]

Question - If she was meeting up with someone and this was the point where they were to find each other - how would she let them know that she had gotten there? Remember cell phones didn't work in this area. So unless she had her arrival time down to a tee, I'm unsure of how she would have been able to successful carry out any type of meeting arrangement.

I'm not saying that he couldn't be possible at all, but just seems like there would be some obstacles involved...with the lack of cell phone capability phone and being unsure of exact arrival time due to the road conditions.

I'd like to know a little more about the condo that she was trying to reserve before leaving via phone. Was it for just for her? Did she mention whether more than one person would be staying there?Actually, if you are asking me, what I said was that I believe the plan was for them to meet at a prearranged staging place, such as a rented hotel room but that I also believe the helper was to follow Maura's same prearranged route to get there. If helper saw the car broken down along the road then helper would know to stop and help. However that plan to stop was only if the car broke down. I don't think an accident was planned for and thats why I think Maura had to get out of the car and walk/jog back the way she had come from to meet her helper before helper saw the car. It would have been too risky for helper to stop where the car actually sat wrecked because that would have given one of the 2 witnesses, or the cops which she knew must surely be on their way, the chance to see and ID helper's vehicle. Maura had to meet helper before helper got to the accident spot and so she had flag helper down before helper reached that spot.

There was no need to have travel time down to a "T" if both knew about when Maura was to leave and if they both knew the route she would take to get there. All helper had to do was to leave sometime after Maura, probably within 20 minutes would have been enough lead time ,and then take the same route Maura had said she would take and watch for a broken down car in case that car did have trouble on the way. (I don't know how much lead time was allowed but it seems that the time was close enough that by jogging/walking down the road Maura was able to meet helper in time to leave unseen) If no broken down Saturn with Maura was seen on the side of the road then helper would have continued on to the prearranged staging place. By then, if all had went well (meaning without an accident), Maura would have had most of the scene staged in the rented room and helper would have picked Maura up & taken her to the next destination in the plan, probably to a second car and then maybe both planned to go back to the dorm room to pick up stuff that was left packed. Since the car wreck probably changed all those later parts of the plan I don't really know what happened after she was picked up. Did helper take her straight to her back up car and then remain silent since helper had not really broken any law in helping an adult disappear?

Or, did things turn sinister?: Did helper get angry if Maura was supposed to have the jewelry with her as a pay off for services rendered and harm Maura when it was learned the jewelry was left behind? Or did helper double cross her for lust?

Who knows but my thought has been and remains, that although all angles of the case should indeed be looked at until they can reasonably be ruled out, . . . .without a body or other evidence of foul play the odds favor her being alive somewhere, snuggling warmly to sleep in her new identity each night.

In absence of other evidence I play the odds.

(Note:If I understood reports correctly she was not actually able to contact the condo owners for rental due to some answering system glitch. I do not know which place she finally had obtained to use to stage her good-bye scene. Finding the helper would seem a nice place to start in finding Maura.)

[Peabody]

Only returned home today.

Glad to see that discussion is still lively.

I must pack my bags and leave again (actually unpack the dirty clothes, wash and throw them back in the suitcase)......more personal things to take care of when I should be home preparing for the holidays !

Hoping to be back online and able to answer your questions/posts by the first of next week.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html)

[Peabody]

Dear P,
you had said I think that you would be away a few days but I did send you a private message on this site yesterday, 12/2. thanks again.
Hydemi,

Received your PM - will be in touch next week.

Thanks for your insight.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html/)

[LillyRush]

Actually, if you are asking me, what I said was that I believe the plan was for them to meet at a prearranged staging place, such as a rented hotel room but that I also believe the helper was to follow Maura's same prearranged route to get there. If helper saw the car broken down along the road then helper would know to stop and help. However that plan to stop was only if the car broke down. I don't think an accident was planned for and thats why I think Maura had to get out of the car and walk/jog back the way she had come from to meet her helper before helper saw the car. It would have been too risky for helper to stop where the car actually sat wrecked because that would have given one of the 2 witnesses, or the cops which she knew must surely be on their way, the chance to see and ID helper's vehicle. Maura had to meet helper before helper got to the accident spot and so she had flag helper down before helper reached that spot.

There was no need to have travel time down to a "T" if both knew about when Maura was to leave and if they both knew the route she would take to get there. All helper had to do was to leave sometime after Maura, probably within 20 minutes would have been enough lead time ,and then take the same route Maura had said she would take and watch for a broken down car in case that car did have trouble on the way. (I don't know how much lead time was allowed but it seems that the time was close enough that by jogging/walking down the road Maura was able to meet helper in time to leave unseen) If no broken down Saturn with Maura was seen on the side of the road then helper would have continued on to the prearranged staging place. By then, if all had went well (meaning without an accident), Maura would have had most of the scene staged in the rented room and helper would have picked Maura up & taken her to the next destination in the plan, probably to a second car and then maybe both planned to go back to the dorm room to pick up stuff that was left packed. Since the car wreck probably changed all those later parts of the plan I don't really know what happened after she was picked up. Did helper take her straight to her back up car and then remain silent since helper had not really broken any law in helping an adult disappear?

Or, did things turn sinister?: Did helper get angry if Maura was supposed to have the jewelry with her as a pay off for services rendered and harm Maura when it was learned the jewelry was left behind? Or did helper double cross her for lust?

Who knows but my thought has been and remains, that although all angles of the case should indeed be looked at until they can reasonably be ruled out, . . . .without a body or other evidence of foul play the odds favor her being alive somewhere, snuggling warmly to sleep in her new identity each night.

In absence of other evidence I play the odds.

(Note:If I understood reports correctly she was not actually able to contact the condo owners for rental due to some answering system glitch. I do not know which place she finally had obtained to use to stage her good-bye scene. Finding the helper would seem a nice place to start in finding Maura.)
Thanks for elaborating on your idea. I was really just writing the whole scene out and just typing 'outloud' some of the things that I concluded about it. I actually still haven't read all the previous posts yet, been catching on some more recent cases during most of my online news update time.

[docwho3]

You are most welcome. I am glad you are taking the time to look at things so carefully. And thinking or "typing" out loud is sometimes the best way to get your thoughts together.
Thanks for elaborating on your idea. I was really just writing the whole scene out and just typing 'outloud' some of the things that I concluded about it. I actually still haven't read all the previous posts yet, been catching on some more recent cases during most of my online news update time.

[hydemi]

The updated CaseInfo timeline on the mauramurray.com website has Maura contacting Bartlett NH (Mrs. Salamone) at 12.55pm on 2/9/04, calling another student who was giving her rides to clinicals at 1.13pm (according to Peabody), and then spending five minutes listening to the recorded lodging options on the 800 number GOSTOWE in Vermont.

I think she decided that Stowe was too expensive, and still about three and one half hours drive, while Bartlett (Attitash) was cheaper & familiar to her & about four plus hours drive from Amherst, maybe less on rte 302 but she went off on rte 112 which looks more direct on maps.

So your theory requires that she somehow notified the helper of the route and the destination on Monday afternoon, sometime in the two hours or so before she departed Amherst. This could have happened but we have no phone or email or other indication of whom she saw that afternoon.

[docwho3]

The updated CaseInfo timeline on the mauramurray.com website has Maura contacting Bartlett NH (Mrs. Salamone) at 12.55pm on 2/9/04, calling another student who was giving her rides to clinicals at 1.13pm (according to Peabody), and then spending five minutes listening to the recorded lodging options on the 800 number GOSTOWE in Vermont.

I think she decided that Stowe was too expensive, and still about three and one half hours drive, while Bartlett (Attitash) was cheaper & familiar to her & about four plus hours drive from Amherst, maybe less on rte 302 but she went off on rte 112 which looks more direct on maps.

So your theory requires that she somehow notified the helper of the route and the destination on Monday afternoon, sometime in the two hours or so before she departed Amherst. This could have happened but we have no phone or email or other indication of whom she saw that afternoon.You are correct, both about the theory requiring some form of communication taking place between the two before she left and also about us not knowing who she contacted about it or how she contacted helper. I believe that if she chose to use her usual phone then helper would have been someone she usually contacted in her normal life so having that number show up on her phone calls from that phone would not seem out of place. But we can't rule out: her having a second cell phone that no one knew of, her seeing helper in person, borrowing a friends cell phone or making a landline call from another phone. So once you think you know when she made her choice of places to stay then you have narrowed down the window of time you are looking at to see who she contacted and that is at least a better starting place for finding her than when we were first confronted with a strange mystery that seemed to make no sense at all. Now we know when to look(from whatever time and date her comp records showed that search and her calls to the condo owners may help narrow that down a bit) and that can tell us a bit of where to look for her contacting helper. The investigation has a bit more focus all of the sudden.

[hydemi]

Dear Doc et al,

I posted at 9am on Saturday 12/10 on the MauraMurray website Case Discussion what amounts to my theory of Maura's disappearance, better described as a summary of available evidence.

1) She left UMA because of "ambivalence and conflicting feelings" over decisions she was trying to make on her own about leaving school again, changing majors again, sticking with her boyfriend, in a state of burnout needing to get away. Keep in mind that she had already extended her undergraduate career by one year (04 to 05) by switching to nursing as well as going thru the extensive departure program required at West Point.

2) She left the scene of her second car wreck in two days in Swiftwater both unable to face the problems above, and now facing the consequences (insurance claims, possible drinking and driving charges) of two car wrecks in two days--the insurance claim form for her Dad's damaged car was on the seat of her Saturn beside her.

3) Where I am stuck but still more than fifty percent favoring the runaway theory (in the absence of any strong evidence of abduction or other possibilities), is whether all of this was enough to make her resolve to get away for an extended period and make her own new life without contacting family or her boyfriend. (She may have tried to contact her boyfriend via the unexplained phone call to his cellphone on Wed am 2/11/04--with the sounds of breathing, sniffing, sobbing thought to be her by the Rausches) I understand why this family or any family and her boyfriend would have a difficult time accepting such an outcome--the Maura they knew would never just disappear without contacting her loved ones.

4) If you read the Case Info timeline on the MauraMurray website, you will see reference to other vehicles and persons possibly seen at the accident scene in Swiftwater. Evidently these details and other suspicions are leading Mr. Murray and the family to believe that Maura was harmed by an opportunistic passing predator in the Haverhill local area. I have to respect their beliefs, even if I so far see the available evidence differently.

[docwho3]

Dear Doc et al,

I posted at 9am on Saturday 12/10 on the MauraMurray website Case Discussion what amounts to my theory of Maura's disappearance, better described as a summary of available evidence. . .I will go look as soon as possible.
I spent the night doing maintenance on my hard drive. Had to mark some bad spots and then retest until all showed clean then I had to defrag the 24% fragmented hard drive which had never been done until now (Its was a new comp last year and we were gone most of this year until August so I hadn't been home to keep up with good computer housekeeping.) Now it looks as if I might have to delete and then reinstall the networking and tcp/ip to straighten out a few kinks in that. Oh well it could be worse.

[Peabody]

I've been home for several days.

But, perhaps computer problems are contagious - I have been having my share.

With two recent trips out of town and Christmas only two weeks away, I am sorry to say that I most likely will not have time to devote to this thread.

Hoping to pick up where I promised after the holidays.

Merry Christmas to all of you!



Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

. . .With two recent trips out of town and Christmas only two weeks away, I am sorry to say that I most likely will not have time to devote to this thread.

Hoping to pick up where I promised after the holidays.

Merry Christmas to all of you!. . . Ok, I hope you have a nice and merry Christmas.

[pugsley]

Below is a partial post from Helena Murray on Maura's site.

http://www.mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7&start=555

Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: Help is on the way Reply with quote
Finally we have some good news to share!!

We are very grateful to John Bish and the Molly Bish Foundation for arranging for us to be put in touch with a group of detectives and retired law enforcement personnel.

Last week Fred and other family members met with four members of a nine person team of detectives and retired law enforcement officers who will be working on Maura's case. Team members come from MA, NH, VT and even ME....We have been sending them information almost daily for their review.

[Peabody]

Below is a partial post from Helena Murray on Maura's site.

http://www.mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7&start=555

Helena Murray at www.MauraMurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/) : "Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:32 pm Post subject: Help is on the way. Finally we have some good news to share!!

We are very grateful to John Bish and the Molly Bish Foundation for arranging for us to be put in touch with a group of detectives and retired law enforcement personnel.

Last week Fred and other family members met with four members of a nine person team of detectives and retired law enforcement officers who will be working on Maura's case. Team members come from MA, NH, VT and even ME....We have been sending them information almost daily for their review."

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Peabody]

Top News

Wednesday December 21, 2005
NORTH COUNTRY, NEW HAMPSHIRE

TV Program To Highlight Missing Woman's Case (http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/3b220200e)
A network television program is going to highlight the case of a young Massachusetts woman who disappeared nearly two years ago in Haverhill, N.H., after she was involved in a minor car crash.

<snip>

Rausch is encouraged that John Healy of Warner, N.H., and other retired law enforcement officers are going to investigate Murray's disappearance.

Healy, who retired as a lieutenant after 19 years with the New Hampshire State Police, said he has 10 volunteers from New Hampshire, Massachusetts and Vermont who will be taking part in the investigation.

Those volunteers include retired police chiefs and detectives who now are licensed private detectives.

"We want to make sure these cases never die," said Healy.

<more at link to Caledonian record>

http://www.caledonianrecord.com/ (http://www.caledonianrecord.com/)


Bring Maura Home!
www.MauraMurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html/)

[Masterj]

WOW. That is great news. I will definitely mark that date on my calendar and tell everyone I know to watch the show. I pray something good comes out of this.

[LillyRush]

That is awesome news, thanks peabody!

[Peabody]

Posted with permission from Maura Murray's website www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)


Kelly Jolkowski has been very kind to once again feature Maura on her blog Voice4theMissing

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.co...-abcs-2020.html (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/12/122105-maura-murray-on-abcs-2020.html)


Kelly works tirelessly to bring attention to the plight of missing persons, and especially for those who receive little or no media attention.
We are most fortunate Kelly featured Maura in a multipart series in late September and early October of this year as well as yesterday.
Kelly tells me that one of the main reasons that she chose to feature Maura on 12/21/05 is that there are still quite a number of readers going to the first feature, and she was certain they would want an update:

"The All-American Girl":
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.co...irl-part-i.html (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/09/93005-all-american-girl-part-i.html)
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.co...rl-part-ii.html (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100105-all-american-girl-part-ii.html)
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.co...l-part-iii.html (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100205-all-american-girl-part-iii.html)
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.co...rl-part-iv.html (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100205-all-american-girl-part-iv.html)
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.co...conclusion.html (http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100305-all-american-girl-conclusion.html)

Thank you Kelly!


(Hopefully, many of you will be so kind to email Kelly and also offer your appreciation kelly.jolkowski@projectjason.org )

[Hammerized]

Father suing for records in 'missing' case

The father of a woman who disappeared nearly two years ago after a minor car accident is suing several police agencies, as well as the governor, seeking the release of information tied to the investigation, according to court documents filed last week.
[...]
Murray is requesting items such as accident reports, the inventory of items taken from her car, a copy of her computer hard drive left behind at her University of Massachusetts/Amherst dorm room, documents pertaining to searches, witness statements and the surveillance tape from a liquor store where she made a purchase.
[...]


On the first anniversary of his daughter’s disappearance, Murray sent a letter to Lynch requesting his help in obtaining information.

“The investigative body . . . has followed its astonishing careless go-through-the-motions response with an unnaturally steadfast refusal to communicate on the matter,” Murray wrote.

http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Father+suing+for+records+in+ %27missing%27+case&articleId=5a720bb2-4cc3-4407-8be7-4d2543265ec8

[Peabody]

This is a working link to the 12/28/05 Union Leader article regarding Fred Murray suing to obtain records in Maura's case.

http://www.theunionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Father+suing+for+records+in+ %27missing%27+case&articleId=5a720bb2-4cc3-4407-8be7-4d2543265ec8 (http://www.theunionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Father+suing+for+records+in+ %27missing%27+case&articleId=5a720bb2-4cc3-4407-8be7-4d2543265ec8)


The Union Leader articles are only accessible for a few days. Afterwards, you must pay a fee to read the entire article.

[Olivia77]

I was thrilled to see the latest article on the front page of the Boston Globe today. The more people who gain interest, the better and I can't express how highly I think of Fred Murray.

[petra]

I too would like to express my support and admiration of Maura's family and those that stand behind them.

I hope that they get the answers they seek and bring awareness to the issues at hand.

Thank you for being so courageous, on behalf of all victims and missing persons.

[Peabody]

I was thrilled to see the latest article on the front page of the Boston Globe today. The more people who gain interest, the better and I can't express how highly I think of Fred Murray.
From the Boston Globe: http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2005/12/28/father_sues_state_police_in_case_of_missing_daught er/

Father sues state, police in case of missing daughter

December 28, 2005

HAVERHILL, N.H. --From the moment his daughter disappeared on Feb. 9, 2004, Fred Murray believed she was a victim of foul play.


<snip>



Murray has been highly critical of police and met with Gov. John Lynch earlier this year to ask for his help in getting records of the investigation. He's now sued Lynch, Attorney General Kelly Ayotte, state police and other law-enforcement agencies seeking the release of information tied to the investigation, such as accident reports; an inventory of items taken from her car; a copy of his daughter's computer hard drive; and a surveillance tape from a liquor store where she made a purchase.

A hearing on Murray's request has been scheduled on Jan. 18 at Grafton County Superior Court.

Ayotte said Wednesday that she had not seen the lawsuit, which was filed last week, but that "we have shared whatever information we feel we can share without jeopardizing the investigation."

She said that Maura Murray is still being treated as a missing person, but "it was a suspicious disappearance. We've treated the case very seriously," she said.

According to the lawsuit, Fred Murray was denied the records "on the grounds that production called for confidential records created ... or would constitute an invasion of privacy."

Murray also questions whether the investigation into his daughter's disappearance is ongoing, saying he hasn't been made aware of "any specific efforts the governmental authorities have taken in pursuing this matter within the past several months."

"The most compelling reason favoring disclosure in this case centers on the fact that Maura could very well still be in danger and disclosure of the information compiled by authorities could help locate her," according to the suit.

"Although (investigators) have continued to dispute the notion, Fred Murray's familiarity with his daughter leads him to believe that it is likely that Maura Murray was the victim of foul play and may even still be in danger, rather than she went missing of her own accord."

<snip>

This article will only be available as "free" for a few days.

[Peabody]

If you are familiar with the media releases, you will notice that for the FIRST TIME, NH authorties have acknowledged that Maura went missing under mysterious circumstances.

Attorney General Kelly Ayotte was quoted yesterday:

The Union Leader
http://www.theunionleader.com/artic...e7-4d2543265ec8 (http://www.theunionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Father+suing+for+records+in+ 'missing'+case&articleId=5a720bb2-4cc3-4407-8be7-4d2543265ec8)



Today's Caledonian Record:


http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/local_news/story/54a409346 (http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/local_news/story/54a409346)



Caledonian Record

Father Sues State, Police Over Missing Daughter


BY GARY E. LINDSLEY, Staff Writer
Thursday December 29, 2005


New Hampshire state and law enforcement officials are facing a lawsuit filed against them by the father of a missing 21-year-old Massachusetts woman.

<snip>


Her father has been seeking police records regarding the accident scene and her disappearance for nearly two years.

He has sought the information under the New Hampshire Right-To-Know Law as well as the federal Freedom of Information Act.

Murray has filed a lawsuit in Grafton Superior Court.

<snip>

"I actually do hope to get the records," Murray said. "It is a missing person's case, not a criminal investigation, according to police. I need the records because I am still actually searching for her."

He is seeking injunctive relief stemming from an improper denial of records by an agency or official covered by the Right-To-Know Law, according to the lawsuit. He is not seeking anything but the information about his daughter's accident and disappearance.

Murray said he has been told by police and the state attorney general's office that information cannot be released because there is an ongoing investigation.

[Attorney General] Ayotte told The Associated Press Wednesday that she had not seen the lawsuit, which was filed last week, but that "we have shared whatever information we feel we can share without jeopardizing the investigation." She said that Maura Murray is still being treated as a missing person, but "it was a suspicious disappearance. We've treated the case very seriously."

[Peabody]

Oops my mistake: Attorney General Kelly Ayotte spoke to the Boston Globe, not to The Union Leader as I have mistakenly referenced:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2005/12/29/father_of_missing_woman_sues_nh_for_records_of_cas e/


<snip>

Ayotte said yesterday that she had not seen the lawsuit, which was filed last week, but that ''we have shared whatever information we feel we can share without jeopardizing the investigation."

She said that Maura Murray's case is still that of a missing person, but that ''it was a suspicious disappearance."

''We've treated the case very seriously," Ayotte said.

<snip>

[Peabody]

Story in Maura's Hometown Paper:



http://enterprise.southofboston.com/articles/2005/12/29/news/news/news05.txt
<snip>

Maura Murray's disappearance was the talk of the towns that straddle the New Hampshire-Vermont border in the early months of 2004, but Brock said it is seldom mentioned anymore.

However, she expects that will change when "20/20" broadcasts a segment on national television next month with film of area sites relevant to the case.

Liz Drewniak of Hanson was among the friends and family — including Maura's boyfriend, Army Lt. Bill Rausch of Oklahoma — of the missing woman who were interviewed for the "20/20" show.

Drewniak, 23, is one of seven childhood friends who remained close after they graduated from Whitman-Hanson Regional High School and moved on to college.

Now a graduate student at Brown, she is home for the holidays and looking forward to getting together with that circle of friends on Friday. But, Maura will not be there.

"She's always on all of our minds," Drewniak said. "We'd like to think she's somewhere far off doing well, enjoying life."

But, on a bad day, they may envision a disoriented Maura, wandering from the crash site into the woods or getting into a car with a stranger, perhaps the wrong person.

"On good days, I'm still hopeful, we all try to be," Drewniak said.

One thing is certain, she said, "She wouldn't put her family and friends through this. She wouldn't take off telling no one."

<snip>

[petra]

This is good news...hope things keep moving forward.

Thoughts with the family.

[Peabody]

This is good news...hope things keep moving forward.

Thoughts with the family.

Posted by Sharon on Maura's website www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)


From 2 PM EST until 3 PM EST Maura's case is being discussed LIVE on a NH Radio Station

Against the Grain with Gardner Goldsmith

Tune in at http://freetalklive.com/tunein.php (http://freetalklive.com/tunein.php)