Maura Murray Part 2-merged

[WindChime]

Continue on :-)

[Peabody]

I found this online article by Steve Huff to be very interesting and thought provoking.

http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/...ces.html#000889 (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_true_crime_disappearances.html#000889)

What are your thoughts?





Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html/)

[Peabody]

was informed that that link was not working. please try this:


http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_true_crime_disappearances.html#000889

[Grassyknoll2]

Thanks for that site Peabody...as you say it is thought provoking...some of the same info in the NH/VT links in the other thread on WS.

[Peabody]

I am asking everyone to please send Steve Huff an email thanking him for the recent blog for Maura. http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_true_crime_disappearances.html#000889 (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_true_crime_disappearances.html#000889) It is such a struggle for the family to get any media attention for the case.

So, please express your appreciation to Steve at his email address steve.huff@gmail.com (steve.huff@gmail.com)

You can also comment on the blog at http://b4.boards2go.com/boards/board.cgi?&user=DarksideSteve

Thanks to you all!


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[Hammerized]

I thanked him a couple days ago, Peabody. :) I was so happy to see he was writing about it, too.

I also sent him a bunch of links I had gathered on the CRV killer and the link to the state "map" that Boxerz made up for us several months back.

[gatetrekker44]

by Steve Huff-I was most impressed with his hitting the nail on the head re: the KNOWN deaths and the disappearances of Maura and Brainna. I am glad you forwarded the info from Boxerz tireless effort indicating not only the known homicides but also the disappearances. At this point, ANY info getting out there to the public can only be a positive, and since many folks use the internet as their main source of info(as opposed to TV,papers,etc) maybe his blog will bring some fresh lead or jog someone's memory in Maura's case. I did send him a big thanks-hope eveyone else does too! :clap: :clap: :clap:


Bring Maura home!

[misterallgood]

I'm thanking you all for everything I've read in this thread so far. I'm feeling bad for not being able to participate in websleuths discussions lately (been a member here for a bit, now!), but as you will see, I've been really busy.

I've begun a new blog, and this one is to be dedicated exclusively to entries discussing only the missing and unidentified -- (John or Jane Does).

This is in addition to my blog about crime, The Dark Side (http://www.planethuff.com/darkside).

The new blog is called Twilight Kingdom (http://www.planethuff.com/twilight_kingdom). If you go there the first entry that you will read as of July 25, '05, will explain the blog title. But I've cross-posted my entry from Dark Side about Maura Murray, Brianna, and possible CRV connectionsat Twilight Kingdom as well.

The URL is, for clarity's sake -- http://www.planethuff.com/twilight_kingdom

I normally don't directly request such things, but if folks could spread the link to the new blog around that would be great, and greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mr. A/Steve

[reb]

i also believe these 2 cases are too similar to not be related.
one possibility is: the fact that maura's drinking while driving, and brianna's involvement in drugs, sadly, is nothing more than a sign of the times. it is quite the norm, unfortunately, for college students to be heavy users of booze & drugs. i mean, of course we all know that... bit what i mean is that perhaps it has nothing to do with what happened to them.

anyway... i have a loose theory (that others have probably already thought of, no doubt)-- that there is a killer in that area, targeting young college girls, and perhaps he follows them and knows their schedules... maybe he was at the restaurant where brianna was working that night, and left when she did, trying to look insignificant, like just another customer.. and followed her down the road. and maybe what this person does is drive up alongside of the intended victim, scare them and push them off the road. (was there any damage to the DRIVER'S side of maura's & brianna's cars...??)
if someone was tipsy &/or tired... maybe they would have an overreaction, and swerve suddenly off the road, and lose control. maybe since no one claims to have seen this happen, maybe no one saw the car that pushed them off the road go down the road and turn around, and wait for the girls to get out of the car and start walking, when they would be most vulnerable... cold, disoriented, and upset... and if maura was injured, she would be likely needing help... i could hear a guy saying "oh no, WHAT happened? hey, i'm a lawyer, he could help you find out who pushed you off the road & prosecute them"... or "i work at the hospital, let me drive you there"... there's tons of things a guy could say to get a young woman into their car, out in the middle of nowhere... or perhaps they just used force, or a weapon.

in brianna's case, she could have backed up suddenly, in a state of momentary shock (and disorientation, since she was likely in the dark, perhaps buzzed, and frightened).. and hit the barn with the back of her car, in her rush to get back on the road... and then her car was REALLY stuck. maybe she *almost* got away.

all the puzzling "clues" about maura's mysterious behavior before the disappearance, could possibly be nothing more than the usual 20-something college-age daily drama. should i stay in school, should i leave?, etc.... and the phone call about her sister's fight with the bf could have been upsetting to her for some personal reason, but not related to the disappearance. the reasons for her being secretive & seeming upset before she vanished might have been related to her being involved with drugs, or owing lots of money for a drug debt (don't shoot me here, it's not outside the realm of possibility-- this is not meant to slander her, so my apologies if this offends anyone)-- also why did the college friend say they "didn't want to get her in trouble"...? what other illegal activities could she have been involved in.....?? hhmmm... let's see... could she have been having another relationship her bf didn't know about & wanted to keep it a secret, or what? i don't know, that's all pure speculation.

OK,,, now this is getting REALLY creepy..... i just read how brianna's car was found on the property of Myron and Harry Dutchburn who were beaten/robbed/murdered in 1986, which is an unsolved crime (and yet NO mention of it on vermont's unsolved homicides website!!! why?)
and the house has been vacant for 6 years.
could it be that brianna has arranged to meet someone to do a drug deal, or to repay a debt, and they killed her, but not before she backed up, trying to escape, and hit the barn?
WHY did it just happen to be found there? did that have any connection with the 1986 murder? or, did the killer have a connection, and drive brianna's car there, back it up, and abandon it?

could it be that this killer is a part of the drug world who befriends young college girls, sells pot to them (& whatever else), and then kills them for their debt, or for some other reason?

i wonder if the cops have fully interviewed ALL of maura & brianna's friends (especially their drug using friends) to see if there are any connections. but of course, any drug user is not going to give up that much info since they don't want to end up dead too.

other questions:
have the cops checked out all sex offenders/rapists on parole, etc.. in that area.. or should i say the entire states of vermont & NH, and any offenders with connections to those states...? (the duncan case shows that these demons will drive to any length to do their nasty deeds.)

also, have they checked out possible police reports of any other women being forced off the road, especially late at night?? it could have happened to other women, but the predator was unsuccessful, b/c the woman either got back on the road, b/c she didn't crash; or maybe the guy had to get back in his lane quick b/c another car was coming, (not only would he crash, but there would be a possible witness to him forcing her off the road)... perhaps if this happened to someone else, she could describe the car or a face.
maybe if it happened to someone else, they just brushed it off as some crazy driver, or road rage, and didn't think it was significant... and did not know they were being followed/targeted.
the police should be interviewing ANY people (esp. women) this has happened to for possible clues!

any thoughts.......?

[reb]

CORRECTION: Myron and Harry Dutchburn were NOT murdered, (my error!)... beaten & robbed but they survived. crime still unsolved though... weird...
another drug-related incident, maybe?

[Heron]

Steve's articles are so well organized and written... I've seen links to his stuff before, especially recently. Glad to see he wrote about Maura and Brianna. I emailed and "blogged" some props (my first blog attempt...)

peace, all

peace for Maura and family

[murraydwyer]

18 months later and still no answers...........thinking of Maura

[Gabby]

Prayers for Maura's family and friends....and for Maura

[Peabody]

We need God's help.



Thanks to all who keep Maura in their prayers.


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.commauramissing.html/)

[Kelly]

Maura's story, "The All American Girl" is now featured on the Project Jason Voice for the Missing blog.

It is a story about a young woman who had it all: good looks, intelligence, and athleticism, but yet was humble and loving; the girl next door, you might say. We'll hear how her disappearance has effected family and friends and about the frustrations in the ongoing search for her in this weekend series.

Be sure to help out the families of the missing by telling others about the blog. This is just another way we can reach out and let the faces of the missing be seen. We welcome appropriate website links. Other ideas are posting the blog link on other forums you frequent, and sending it out to your friends and family via email.

Thank you for helping us to help others.

Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski
President and Founder,
Project Jason
http://www.projectjason.org
Read our Voice for the Missing Blog
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/

[Kelly]

All 5 parts to Maura's story on the Project Jason-Voice for the Missing blog are now posted. For weekday and other readers who missed the weekend series, here are the links to each part of the story in order:

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/09/93005-all-american-girl-part-i.html

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100105-all-american-girl-part-ii.html

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100205-all-american-girl-part-iii.html

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100205-all-american-girl-part-iv.html

http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100305-all-american-girl-conclusion.html

I would like to thank the Murray and the Rausch families for sharing Maura with me. I would also like to thank the many readers who support these families and who help them in many ways.

Many blessings,
Kelly Jolkowski, Mother of Missing Jason Jolkowski
President and Founder,
Project Jason
www.projectjason.org
Voice for the Missing
http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/

[LillyRush]

You did a great job with the blog and it was nice to see her story documented like that. :)

[Gabby]

You did a great job with the blog and it was nice to see her story documented like that. :)


I agree Lilly, it was a beautifully written and caring post on the blog... Prayers for Maura and her family and loved ones.... Prayers to Kelly and her family and to Jason.... may both families soon find their loved ones returned to them.

[Kelly]

Thank you for remembering and caring. It helps us to know we and the one we love who is not with us is not forgotten.

Many blessings,
Kelly

[Peabody]

Thank you for remembering and caring. It helps us to know we and the one we love who is not with us is not forgotten.

Many blessings,
Kelly
Dear Kelly,

Because of you many more people will remember all of the missing.

It is my opinion that you have a God given talent for writing. He will surely bless you for using it to help others.


I usually cry when reading your stories of the missing. Your touching presentation of Maura caused me to cry a river.


Bring Maura Home!
www.MauraMurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[Kelly]

Peabody,

We need more people like you to care! I will continue to do what I can to ensure the missing are not forgotten.

God bless,
Kelly

[dannyodie]

someone help me here, in all that has been posted here, didn't someone post about a woman that saw a strange acting man nearby in a pick up truck? seems I read that but was there more to that? seems it was reported by a woman in a nearby town or township? I remember when the groene family thing happened that we were all working on the possibility that this could have been related to drug deals gone bad? until one websleuther mentioned that this could be a sexual preditor that did that, how right he was. I am just wondering myself if someone drove by the scene that is known to be violant against women? and picked her up to give her a ride to town and did other wise to her. the last person to have seen her alive was the school bus driver. maybe they should look his property over real good. or have they already done so? is there any pictures of the area that one can look at? and what is the exact name of the highway or street she was travelling? someone in the area if you could sometime, and know someone with a gps unit, ask them to travel to the location of the accident log the gps waypoints and then post here on websleuths, I can use that info on this sattelite program which was developed by nasa to look over the vast area and see if there is some possible places that could be looked into. the images that I will see of course would not be detailed enough to show a body on the ground, but does show with good clarity of landscapes and buildings and so on. having the exact gps waypoints will give me a exact starting point, without it, it will take much much longer to establish a location to begin with. if anyone can do that I would appreciate it.

[murraydwyer]

Hi,

There was a report of a suspicious pickup truck in the area reported by a woman. The initial reports also put a man smoking a cigarette in the car...though that has never been confirmed...and it just dropped from the newspaper articles

As to where the accident occured, it was on Route 112. The city gets real fudgey in that spot....Haverhill (Woodsville which is a Village of Haverhill) Bath (Swiftwater which is a village of Bath). Some searches put the bus drivers house in Bath and some in Woodsville. How close do you need the coordinates to be? I come up with approximately W71º 58.2 N44º 8.6.

I think I read the the GPS on Maura's phone wouldn't work because NH does not have whatever is needed in place...would regular GPS work? Anybody out there reading from NH have GPS??

[docwho3]

...the last person to have seen her alive was the school bus driver. maybe they should look his property over real good. or have they already done so?....
Sounds like a good idea. A bus driver would be someone who could troll for victems in a large area.

Her odd behavior, however, makes it appear that she was getting ready to disappear anyway. We are left wondering:
1.Did she just stage her own disappearance? It has happened with others before.
2.Did she plan to disappear but unfortunately met up with a killer who helped her disappear in a permenant way.-Perhaps a bus driver?
3. Did someone set her up in some way . . . perhaps by asking her help for several days?

[dannyodie]

Hi,

There was a report of a suspicious pickup truck in the area reported by a woman. The initial reports also put a man smoking a cigarette in the car...though that has never been confirmed...and it just dropped from the newspaper articles

As to where the accident occured, it was on Route 112. The city gets real fudgey in that spot....Haverhill (Woodsville which is a Village of Haverhill) Bath (Swiftwater which is a village of Bath). Some searches put the bus drivers house in Bath and some in Woodsville. How close do you need the coordinates to be? I come up with approximately W71º 58.2 N44º 8.6.

I think I read the the GPS on Maura's phone wouldn't work because NH does not have whatever is needed in place...would regular GPS work? Anybody out there reading from NH have GPS??
longitude and latitude readings are the more precise ones I am needing.

[Marisa714]

I don't think I remember reading about the man w/the cigarette...even though it's unconfirmed, are there more details to that?

[docwho3]

I have been mulling this one over in my mind. I wasn't going to get involved with it at first for several reasons, one of which is she seems to have wished to disappear & I have to respect that choice. But one W.S. has the name 'prayers for maura' and that stuck in my mind and so I mulled it over. I hope it ends up being a little help.

Normally when something sounds wild & hard to believe it usually means its a lie. Yes I know there are exceptions to that rule but in lack of other info I play the odds. The bus driver's story did not sound likely and it could have been just a way to cover his backside if someone had spotted him speaking to Maura. But what if he spoke the truth?

What about her pulling money out of bank? That sounds very much like the bride-with-cold-feet case.

So how could the bus driver be telling the truth & yet Maura have disappeared so easily and so fast? Well, if she wanted to disappear she might have enlisted the help of someone she knew in school or in town.

Let's say she speaks to friend & the plan is for friend to follow her to a pre arranged place & then Maura would just park the car and friend would arrive and pick her up and drop her off at her destination.

So she starts out on that day & friend goes to gas up his/her car or make other last minute arrangements but leaves town within 30 minutes (probably less) of Maura.

But Maura has a slight mishap on the road & now someone has seen her and this may alert people to her intended destination or at the very least will point people in her direction of travel. She probably had hoped for more time before the car was dicovered but it was not a serious enough problem for her to scrap the plan to disappear. She also doesn't want the cops to see her. Soon after the bus driver/witness leaves Maura's friend comes tooling up in his/her car & Maura gets in & they hurry off unseen.

How to confirm all this? If the right person talks to Maura's school acquaintances I think they will learn the truth since it has been so long.
Find Maura's friend/confidante & you have probably found the person who helped her disappear.

So did Maura's cold feet last this long? Possibly, since going back would entail much embarrassment & lots of explaining. Could friend have decided to kill her for the money she had withdrawn? Possibly.

Could she have just joined the army? Sure - I found some google entries of track& field times with her name mentioned & the word army next to it.
Could she have just went to another job that she had quietly set up ahead of time? Yes.

Wherever Maura is I am sure she needs all our prayers and I hope this night finds her safe & warm and at peace with her decisions.

[dannyodie]

I have been mulling this one over in my mind. I wasn't going to get involved with it at first for several reasons, one of which is she seems to have wished to disappear & I have to respect that choice. But one W.S. has the name 'prayers for maura' and that stuck in my mind and so I mulled it over. I hope it ends up being a little help.

Normally when something sounds wild & hard to believe it usually means its a lie. Yes I know there are exceptions to that rule but in lack of other info I play the odds. The bus driver's story did not sound likely and it could have been just a way to cover his backside if someone had spotted him speaking to Maura. But what if he spoke the truth?

What about her pulling money out of bank? That sounds very much like the bride-with-cold-feet case.

So how could the bus driver be telling the truth & yet Maura have disappeared so easily and so fast? Well, if she wanted to disappear she might have enlisted the help of someone she knew in school or in town.

Let's say she speaks to friend & the plan is for friend to follow her to a pre arranged place & then Maura would just park the car and friend would arrive and pick her up and drop her off at her destination.

So she starts out on that day & friend goes to gas up his/her car or make other last minute arrangements but leaves town within 30 minutes (probably less) of Maura.

But Maura has a slight mishap on the road & now someone has seen her and this may alert people to her intended destination or at the very least will point people in her direction of travel. She probably had hoped for more time before the car was dicovered but it was not a serious enough problem for her to scrap the plan to disappear. She also doesn't want the cops to see her. Soon after the bus driver/witness leaves Maura's friend comes tooling up in his/her car & Maura gets in & they hurry off unseen.

How to confirm all this? If the right person talks to Maura's school acquaintances I think they will learn the truth since it has been so long.
Find Maura's friend/confidante & you have probably found the person who helped her disappear.

So did Maura's cold feet last this long? Possibly, since going back would entail much embarrassment & lots of explaining. Could friend have decided to kill her for the money she had withdrawn? Possibly.

Could she have just joined the army? Sure - I found some google entries of track& field times with her name mentioned & the word army next to it.
Could she have just went to another job that she had quietly set up ahead of time? Yes.

Wherever Maura is I am sure she needs all our prayers and I hope this night finds her safe & warm and at peace with her decisions.
interesting post, here are a few known facts according to the reports. maura packed all her stuff from the dorm and told her boss and teacher that she was leaving for a week due to a death in the family, there was no death in the family, all of this took place after she had been talking to someone over the phone, a search of her computer indicated that she was looking up directions to somewhere in vermont. the night the car wreck happened it was 12 degress and I think it was snowing or had snowed, the accident happened approx. 100 ft or yards from the bus drivers home, he ask her if she was ok and that he would call the police, she didn't want him to do that so he went back to his home and reported it anyway, 10 or so minutes later the police show up and she is no where around. if I understood the report correctly all the things she packed were still inside the car. I have always suspected the bus driver from the start, he is the only known last person to physically see her alive, some report mentioned that the bus driver got on his school bus to finish paper work in 12 degree weather, that is really odd if that occured, maybe he offered her some refuge in the bus until someone could come and help her and maybe he caused harm to her on that bus? the man is married so I don't think he would have taken her inside. police indicate that the footprints in the snow indicated she had started walking up in the direction of the bus drivers house. the call he made to police would be a good ploy to cover his tracks, most people would do the right thing and call police of a car accident so that in it self would keep suspicion off of him. maybe the police should go back and ask him if he wouldn't mind them looking around on his property, even better ask him to take a polygraph test, he should at least be a person of interest until the police can prove otherwise.

[CyberLaw]

The bus driver was investigated and cleared, he is well known and respected in the neighbourhood, he phoned the cops because he was worried about Maura, they have investigated him and cleared him.

They again have training......

Maura was seen after the bus driver, some distance away avoiding any passing cars......

For this scene to be correct: Since the man was married, within the very short time, he would have had to a)abduct Maura without his wife knowing or lveaving any evidence... b) harm Maura without anyone or his wife knowing, seeing, or hearing or leaving any evidence.... c) bury Maura or put her in some other place where no one would see her or hear her(if not harmed) all within 10 minutes...........or less............while the Police were on their way, the Police that he called..........

The bus is used to transport people, do you not think that one of these people would notice something if the bus was involved......please.....

The ground is frozen solid.......he would be seen carrying something onto the bus by his wife how would anyone bury a person in solid frozen ground all within 10 minutes........the bus does not belong to him, but to the company he works for..........

He is a large man, I doubt even a very fit person could or would risk doing this while the POLICE are on the way..........and he knows they are on their way as he called them......

Would it not make "logic" to do this crime, cover your tracks, make sure all your "ducks" are in a row, get away with the crime, dispose of any evidence and then call the Police, you will control when they get there, , who knows if they will arrive in 2 minutes, or 10.......

It defies normal logic.......again.....and again.....and again..........


I again have no doubt that Maura left to start a new life on her own terms......no doubt whatsoever.......after all she is not a child, but an adult......who is free to make whatever adult choices she wants to with her own life......

Edited by Animal to remove speculation on family.

[Marisa714]

If I remember correctly, they aren't sure Maura ever UNPACKED her things after arriving, and I thought the sighting of Maura after the bus driver wasn't confirmed? I think that's what I remember at least. If I were went missing and I had just withdrawn most of money from the ATM and needed to get away to think for a bit, I would hope people would assume something happened to me. I can totally see where people would think she ranaway, and I hope she did! But if indeed Maura only planned on leaving for a little while to think b/c she was bothered/upset by something, I can see myself doing exactly what she did. If I'm contemplating things in my life or I'm upset about something, anything serious I NEVER tell people until after the fact. If it's something minor I will though. I'm just the type of person who really NEEDS to be alone to figure things out. Sorry this is so long, I hope this makes sense too! I wanted to add that I respect everybodys opinions, and I think it's awesome when someone posts his/her theory!

Marisa

[docwho3]

You also believe that Maura left for her own reasons. Ok. Having noted that . . . .I don't mean to be rude or to rain on anyones parade but I have some questions:

The bus driver was investigated and cleared, he is well known and respected in the neighbourhood, he phoned the cops because he was worried about Maura, they have investigated him and cleared him.
I am curious as you seem to be quoting from some surce of info which I have not yet seen. Care to elaborate on that source?

Maura was seen after the bus driver, some distance away avoiding any passing cars......This was confirmed by whom? More confirmed facts are always welcome.

For this scene to be correct: Since the man was married, within the very short time, he would have had to a)abduct Maura without his wife knowing or lveaving any evidence... b) harm Maura without anyone or his wife knowing, seeing, or hearing or leaving any evidence.... c) bury Maura or put her in some other place where no one would see her or hear her(if not harmed) all within 10 minutes...........or less............while the Police were on their way, the Police that he called..........
Without knowing your source of information I can only ask:
How do we know it was 'in a very short time?' We only have his evidence as to when he first saw her according to the skimpy website pages I have seen posted. If he was lying then quite a bit of time might have elapsed between him first seeing her & him calling police. Once we throw out his stated time line and assume he had more time than he let on he then has time to do whatever needed doing (unless other info proves different.) Perhaps it was only after he was done then he called the police.
Without his wife knowing. . . hmmm was she even home at that time on that day? And I have known of cases where the wife kept silent of her husband's misdeeds.

The bus is used to transport people, do you not think that one of these people would notice something if the bus was involved......please.....Cite source please. I have not yet read that the bus had any passengers on it at the time the driver allegedly saw Maura. If he was heading home it is conceivable that the bus was empty but I always prefer facts over speculation. (Note: I have 'heard' it said on this forum,although not by you, that the bus was a school bus but have not yet seen that confirmed either.)

how would anyone bury a person in solid frozen ground all within 10 minutesI have already mentioned that he may have had much more time than he first said. Frozen ground? I have read the temp was about 12 degrees (F?) that day but I have not confirmed that by weather records for the area. But I have not yet heard from anyone that the ground was frozen (not knowing the previous several days temps either) but even frozen ground is not a problem if he actually had more time than he let on in his version of events. There are lots of way the body could have been stored for later disposal and a cold temp actually aids in that endeavour.


In short, While I agree that Maura probably did disappear on purpose, I also think its fair to admit that the bus driver could have killed her. (unless someone can cite verifiable sources that say otherwise. New verifiable facts are always welcome.)

I can see it might have happened something like this:Maura plans to disappear for awhile to think things out but has mishap on road. Bus driver finds her and takes her somewhere -probably his own house or maybe a barn if he parks bus in a barn, has his way with her if he wants that and has her & possibly her cash (I never read that the cash was recovered.)

If it was snowing hard & a barn was involved I doubt wife would even have seen anything from 100 yards away and once in a barn her sight would be blocked. But it is also possible even without a barn that wife simply refused to turn her hubby in- either from love or fear or maybe both & that all assumes she was home that day at that time.

Anyway after the deed is done & the body stashed either in the barn (if there was one) or somewhere out of sight (at 12 degrees body might soon be frozen and not have normal decay odor) bus driver has the scene just as he wants the cops to find it so he calls the police. They show up & he gives them his rather implausible story of an almost magic disappearance.

I don't think that's what really happened but until you or someone else comes forth with verifiable sources to prove it didn't happen that way I can't rule it out in my own mind as a possibility.

Thx for your patience.

[Marisa714]

Welcome to Websleuths Docwho3!!!!! You have some interesting ideas! I've wondered before if the bus driver 'could' have had something to do with it....now that you put it together it seems very possible IMO. I personally don't trust LE working (or more like not working IMO) on Maura's case. I'm basing this on what I've read about them though.

[CyberLaw]

Docwho3, everything that I have said is a matter of public record, please do your own research, I don' have the time yet again to rehash old facts.

But in the dead of winter, in February, in New Hampshire, with snow on the ground, what are the odds that the ground is NOT frozen.

Please, I live in Canada.....

There is a timeline here, an elderly couple saw Maura after the bus driver safe and sound.

Please the concept of Maura and the bus driver has long been discounted by LE and intelligent people who are aware of all of the facts.......

I have a funny feeling that Maura did not want to finish school and become a nurse like her Mom, go to the same school as her Dad, and was "tired" of her relationship with "Big Bill", but the only way she could get out of this situation is to runaway from everything and everyone.......

From the Project Jason website:

This is very telling - There are times we feel guilty - and we play over and over so many things in our minds: if we ever caused you to feel insecure in our love or to doubt that we wanted you to be a part of our family, please forgive us

Edited by Animal to remove speculation about family.

[Marisa714]

Docwho3, everything that I have said is a matter of public record, please do your own research, I don' have the time yet again to rehash old facts.

But in the dead of winter, in February, in New Hampshire, with snow on the ground, what are the odds that the ground is NOT frozen.

Please, I live in Canada.....

There is a timeline here, an elderly couple saw Maura after the bus driver safe and sound.

Please the concept of Maura and the bus driver has long been discounted by LE and intelligent people who are aware of all of the facts.......

I have a funny feeling that Maura did not want to finish school and become a nurse like her Mom, go to the same school as her Dad, and was "tired" of her relationship with "Big Bill", but the only way she could get out of this situation is to runaway from everything and everyone.......


JW what makes you draw these conclusions about Maura's family....do you know her family? And what makes you so certain Maura wanted to end her relationship with Bill? I know you said it's a 'funny feeling', but is there any other reason besides a 'funny feeling' that you think that? Just curious...

[Peabody]

[QUOTE=CyberLaw]
<snip>
Why do they call her former boyfriend "Big Bill", that is odd to me.......>

QUOTE]

FYI to first time readers: I do not recall ever agreeing with any of your posts (Cyberlaw) regarding Maura's missing.

I follow Maura's case very closely and have absolutely no idea where you could come up with the idea that Maura's boyfriend should be called "former boyfriend" and/or that he is called "Big Bill". In addition, even if the boyfriend is called "Big Bill", I certainly don't find it odd that he might have a nickname.

I know that in newspaper articles, Maura's boyfriend has been referred to both as Billy" and as "Bill".

To my knowledge, the only tiime that "Big Bill" has ever been in print is in the letter from Sharon to Maura featured on Voice4theMissing. However, anyone who took the time to read all of Kelly's blog could not be confused or mistakenly assume "Big Bill" for "Billy" or "Bill", Maura's boyfriend.

Please check out the letter from Sharon to Maura in the blog on Voice4theMissing in which she refers to both "Big Bill" and "Billy" http://voice4themissing.blogspot.com/2005/10/100305-all-american-girl-conclusion.html

While I do not agree with your assessment that Maura ran away, I so pray that you are correct.

Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

Docwho3, everything that I have said is a matter of public record, please do your own research, I don' have the time yet again to rehash old facts.

But in the dead of winter, in February, in New Hampshire, with snow on the ground, what are the odds that the ground is NOT frozen.

Please, I live in Canada.....

There is a timeline here, an elderly couple saw Maura after the bus driver safe and sound.

Please the concept of Maura and the bus driver has long been discounted by LE and intelligent people who are aware of all of the facts.......

I have a funny feeling that Maura did not want to finish school and become a nurse like her Mom, go to the same school as her Dad, and was "tired" of her relationship with "Big Bill", but the only way she could get out of this situation is to runaway from everything and everyone.......
From the Project Jason website:

This is very telling - There are times we feel guilty - and we play over and over so many things in our minds: if we ever caused you to feel insecure in our love or to doubt that we wanted you to be a part of our family, please forgive us
Ok - you make statements a if pronouncing the gospel but won't or can't cite sources to back up your statements & resort to snide remarks about not doing someone elses work for them. hmmmm That's your choice but most of us here try to supply info to help & not just snipe. And I am suposed to just take your word for everything? Trust that you know how to even do quality research? Trust that you would never fudge on facts just to win points when posting? I don't even know you other than as a personality on the web so why should I take your word about info? But I won't waste anymore time reading posts from someone who refuses to cite their sources because in effect they are just offering wild speculation without labeling it as such.

For the rest of you who may be curious:
My point in asking for sources is that anyone can put up a website and make any outrageous claim but that does not make the info correct. Therefor I want to see the info source myself and possibly see what more official internet resources confirm what I read on someones 'homepage'. I may even want to look at the coding of some websites. I may want to see if there is more info than was mentioned which might lead to other angles to investigate. But that's just my opinion and its only how I myself work.
I hope it doesn't get anyone elses nose out of joint.

[PrayersForMaura]

(February 9, 2004)
March,
April,
May - Maura turned 22,
June,
July,
August,
September,
October,
November,
December - Christmas,
January,
February - Missing one year,
March,
April,
May - Maura turned 23,
June,
July,
August,
September,
October



Maura's family has had to endure twenty (20) months of not knowing what happened to her.




SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING...PLEASE HELP THE MURRAY FAMILY FIND MAURA

can we go talk to the bus driver ourselves?

[Peabody]

Ok - you make statements a if pronouncing the gospel but won't or can't cite sources to back up your statements & resort to snide remarks about not doing someone elses work for them. hmmmm That's your choice but most of us here try to supply info to help & not just snipe. And I am suposed to just take your word for everything? Trust that you know how to even do quality research? Trust that you would never fudge on facts just to win points when posting? I don't even know you other than as a personality on the web so why should I take your word about info? But I won't waste anymore time reading posts from someone who refuses to cite their sources because in effect they are just offering wild speculation without labeling it as such.

For the rest of you who may be curious:
My point in asking for sources is that anyone can put up a website and make any outrageous claim but that does not make the info correct. Therefor I want to see the info source myself and possibly see what more official internet resources confirm what I read on someones 'homepage'. I may even want to look at the coding of some websites. I may want to see if there is more info than was mentioned which might lead to other angles to investigate. But that's just my opinion and its only how I myself work.
I hope it doesn't get anyone elses nose out of joint.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[Hammerized]

Peabody, PrayersForMaura...

I came across an odd (very out of place for this part of NH!) execution-style murder in Haverhill, NH in my local paper recently, and something about it kept me interested.

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=3918456&nav=4QcS

http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/5057110/detail.html

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=61197

Perhaps the seemingly "random" nature of this execution, coupled with the location of the victim- Haverhill. Or maybe it was the victim's profession- building patios and stone walls... But something about it raised my hackles.

Did Thomas know something about Maura's disappearance? Did he discover a buried body while building a stone wall or patio?

Just some blue-sky thoughts here. His execution is unexplained so far, and there has been no link to any criminal involvement on his part released so far.

Small towns in NH are, well, small towns. It is indeed rare for murders to occur, let alone executions. And so I wonder- did Tom know something about Maura?

Just an idea, something to keep an eye on.

[Kelly]

This is very telling - There are times we feel guilty - and we play over and over so many things in our minds: if we ever caused you to feel insecure in our love or to doubt that we wanted you to be a part of our family, please forgive us

It is common for a family with a missing loved one to make public statements of hope. No one knows for sure, in most cases, if their loved one is dead or alive. I have made many such public statements in case my son could read what I said, such as: "No matter what, we forgive you. We just want you to come home."

Does that mean that there is neccesarily something to forgive, some hidden secret act? No, it is simply a statement made to cover the bases. It is also normal for families of the missing to feel guilt and question anything they may have said or done to cause the loved one's disappearance. This guilt is typically present regardless of the type of disappearance.

"Big Bill" refers to Sharon's husband, Bill, in the story on my blog. Maura's fiancee is always referred to as "Billy".

This is just a friendly reminder that this is the support forum, rather than the discussion forum. The types of postings seen here in the past 24 hours should go on the Missing Discussion Forum. This forum is to be a "safe haven" for families of the missing, where if they should be reading, they do not see themselves or their missing loved ones torn about or written about as if they were just a theory. It is hurtful to those left behind. It's painful enough as it is without seeing those postings. If you need this clarified, I'm sure a moderator would be happy to do that. Most posters write in a respectful manner, but some do not. Thank you.

Kelly

[docwho3]

Peabody, PrayersForMaura...

I came across an odd (very out of place for this part of NH!) execution-style murder in Haverhill, NH in my local paper recently, and something about it kept me interested.

http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=3918456&nav=4QcS

http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/5057110/detail.html

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=61197

Perhaps the seemingly "random" nature of this execution, coupled with the location of the victim- Haverhill. Or maybe it was the victim's profession- building patios and stone walls... But something about it raised my hackles.

Did Thomas know something about Maura's disappearance? Did he discover a buried body while building a stone wall or patio?

Just some blue-sky thoughts here. His execution is unexplained so far, and there has been no link to any criminal involvement on his part released so far.

Small towns in NH are, well, small towns. It is indeed rare for murders to occur, let alone executions. And so I wonder- did Tom know something about Maura?

Just an idea, something to keep an eye on.
Hmm interesting thought. Plz let us all know if anything more turns up to indicate that. In the meantime I noticed this on the Union Leader website news article (from the link in your post) about it "Up until about eight years ago, Phil and Tom Conrad had a logging business, until Tom Conrad decided it was time for a change and went to work at Hilltop Quarry in neighboring Piermont." Now I wonder did he leave due to a disagreement with brother? Was the logging business in difficulty? The news article of same site also said "Tom Conrad had been married and divorced more than 15 years ago. Although he never had children of his own,. . . " so who would get his life insurance? And what about having trouble with possible coworkers at the quarry?

This whole thing seems a little odd so far but thats probably because I know so little yet. He lived with his mother? "Police arrived to find Conrad dead on the ground from multiple gunshot wounds after they received a 911 emergency call from a female resident at the home about 9:24 p.m. Conrad lived with his mother, Betty, the librarian in Pike, a village of Haverhill."

So who called the cops? the mom? or the female resident? I mean since they said he lived with his mother why not say the call came from his mother? Why say that call came from a female resident unless they are hinting that he also has a girlfriend living there too? I don't know the answers to these questions but you can try emailing one of the reporters that wrote those articles such as the channel 3 person Nicole Oliverio channel 3 news wcax-TV whose email is listed as oliverio@wcax.com
or LORNA COLQUHOUN of the union leader. (There is a contact link on their webpage.)

[docwho3]

2nd Edited to add:This post and several others have been moved to this Missing/located category so that we may carry on our case discussion in the appropriate category. Thank you to the moderators.

. . . .This is just a friendly reminder that this is the support forum, rather than the discussion forum. The types of postings seen here in the past 24 hours should go on the Missing Discussion Forum. This forum is to be a "safe haven" for families of the missing, where if they should be reading, they do not see themselves or their missing loved ones torn about or written about as if they were just a theory. It is hurtful to those left behind. It's painful enough as it is without seeing those postings. If you need this clarified, I'm sure a moderator would be happy to do that. Most posters write in a respectful manner, but some do not. Thank you.

KellyI apologize to you as I think I misunderstood the actual purpose of this thread even though it is labeled correctly. I thought that support might also mean discussing information to help find the missing as well as just being a comforting source. Edited to add:I think the title "Missing persons Information and Support" is what threw me.
I have seen similar style conversations in support threads but that is no real excuse. My mistake.

[Kelly]

Hi Doc,

No need to apologize, really. I can't speak for members of the Murray family in regards to their feelings about case discussion on this thread, but I can speak for many other families who are hurt and appalled at what they see written about about missing persons and their families on posting boards. (not just their own)

If this particular board is to be a safe haven for families to read and not see any material that they may be sensitive to, then it needs to remain as such. Moderators, please correct me if I am wrong.

I don't recall seeing anything disrespectful in your posts. Thank you for that.

Kelly

[TheClueMan]

Cyberlaw....
For someone who hates to rehash things..."YOU DO A GOOD JOB"...So if it is
such a pain and you have no time for this "WELL DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME ON OUR ACCOUNT" ....

OH and I feel as though you know so much about MAURA....How could this be unless you are "HER"...so lets stick to the facts....and even you, such a wise creature could not know these things....So please state the FACTS and not your ideas and conclusions on "WHO YOU THINK MAURA IS"....Spend your words on more resourceful and useful information that will help this case "NOT HINDER IT".....

Thank You and Have A Nice Day...

"THE CLUE MAN"

[Gabby]

It is common for a family with a missing loved one to make public statements of hope. No one knows for sure, in most cases, if their loved one is dead or alive. I have made many such public statements in case my son could read what I said, such as: "No matter what, we forgive you. We just want you to come home."

Does that mean that there is neccesarily something to forgive, some hidden secret act? No, it is simply a statement made to cover the bases. It is also normal for families of the missing to feel guilt and question anything they may have said or done to cause the loved one's disappearance. This guilt is typically present regardless of the type of disappearance.

"Big Bill" refers to Sharon's husband, Bill, in the story on my blog. Maura's fiancee is always referred to as "Billy".

This is just a friendly reminder that this is the support forum, rather than the discussion forum. The types of postings seen here in the past 24 hours should go on the Missing Discussion Forum. This forum is to be a "safe haven" for families of the missing, where if they should be reading, they do not see themselves or their missing loved ones torn about or written about as if they were just a theory. It is hurtful to those left behind. It's painful enough as it is without seeing those postings. If you need this clarified, I'm sure a moderator would be happy to do that. Most posters write in a respectful manner, but some do not. Thank you.

Kelly



thank you for pointing this out Kelly... my temper gets the better of me when I read things that disrespect the missing and their families and friends.... therefore I usually back out of the forum.... Tact is not one of my strong points.

There but by GOD's Grace go I... my son could have gone or could go missing, or my grandson, my nephew, my brother..... I love you and admire you so much, but I hope I never have to walk in your shoes....

Prayers to you, your family, and all the families of the the missing, and especially heartfelt prayers for those who are missing... Your family wants you home...they love you, Please if you are able, come home or at the very least let them know you are alive and safe.

God Bless YOU ALL.

[docwho3]

Ok - kelly, Am I finally at the right thread for case discussion of Maura?
The thread category says so but I am trying to check & be careful.

[Kelly]

Yes, you are. Carry on, Sleuthers.

[Animal04216]

Just a reminder to please abide by TOS. Some posts are bordering on attacking the poster. I know that these cases can really get us all upset, but please eveyone lets agree to disagree! Thank you all for making Websleuths a great place to post!

Animal

[docwho3]

"As Maura's 1996 black Saturn rounded a sharp left curve just past The Weathered Barn on Route 112 at about 7:30 p.m., she lost control of the car and it went off the right side of the highway, striking a tree."
Source:http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/afa10e18b
The article was written by:Gary Lindsley The email addy was publically listed on their contact page.
lindsleyg@caledonian-record.com

I had not yet read that article page when I hypothesized the possibility of a barn nearby. I still don't have that theory that included the possibility of a barn as my number one choice of events but it could well become number one.

I am now rethinking and revising that possible version of events in my mind.
If all we have is the car with stuff in it and one person's word for things and that person was by his own account the last person to admit seeing her alive then I have to at least give careful thought to how things could have happened and still fit all the facts as reported & have the police search come up empty.

I do have to also consider that the police & higher officials seem to be hinting that they have information that she is ok and wants to stay gone. But is that true? Did she perhaps leave them a note or call them? Or are they jumping to conclusions because she pulled money out of account in bank.

In reference to the state police delay for nine months in contacting the owner of a condominium in Bartlett, to whom Maura had placed one of her last two cell phone calls, he said, "I am not going to comment on specific parts of the investigation." - Who did she call in Bartlet?

Even though its still only my number 2 theory I may post another separate post on it. I admit that I am speculating - more like thinking out loud. At least I am citing the websources that I am basing that speculation on so others may investigate & perhaps come to better info. After all. . . . . . the whole purpose is to find out what happened to Maura, as much as is possible and not try to make me look brighter than I am. *smile*

And if we actually found out what happened to her and confirmed it? Personally I think the info should go to Law Enforcement for safety reasons.

http://www.mauramurray.com/
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/afa10e18b
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/02/27/footprints_in_the_snow/

I got these links from one of the early posts but I forget whose post it was.

[Peabody]

"As Maura's 1996 black Saturn rounded a sharp left curve just past The Weathered Barn on Route 112 at about 7:30 p.m., she lost control of the car and it went off the right side of the highway, striking a tree."
Source:http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/afa10e18b
The article was written by:Gary Lindsley The email addy was publically listed on their contact page.
lindsleyg@caledonian-record.com

I had not yet read that article page when I hypothesized the possibility of a barn nearby. I still don't have that theory that included the possibility of a barn as my number one choice of events but it could well become number one.

I am now rethinking and revising that possible version of events in my mind.
If all we have is the car with stuff in it and one person's word for things and that person was by his own account the last person to admit seeing her alive then I have to at least give careful thought to how things could have happened and still fit all the facts as reported & have the police search come up empty.

I do have to also consider that the police & higher officials seem to be hinting that they have information that she is ok and wants to stay gone. But is that true? Did she perhaps leave them a note or call them? Or are they jumping to conclusions because she pulled money out of account in bank..
There are no links to support the "private information" that I am sharing. I happen to know someone very close to Maura. I can tell you that from the time Maura's family arrived in Haverhill on Feb 10 2005 through June 2005, LE privately told the family that Maura had plans on commiting suicide. They told her family that they based this theory on the fact that family and friends did not know of her plans for the trip to NH; the mention of "a death in the family" excuse to her professors and employers, and the finding of aspirin, tylenol pm and alcohol in her car.


Although I presently do not have the news links (and unfortunately will not have the time to locate them for you for approx 2 weeks, but I promise they will be provided), Lt. Scarinza, the head of the NH SP Unit in charge of the case, was quoted in print and went on tv wherein he repeatedly inferred that Maura was suicidal and had left a not for her boyfriend. If you check the archives of the Caledonian, you should find an article where Sharon, the mother of Maura's boyfriend, called LE "liars" over this incident.

It has been reported (and I know for a fact) that the boyfriend went to Maura's dorm at the invitation of UMass Police before NH SP. He says that there was no note to him and when the Scarinza's remarks were made public, both Rausches and Murrays spent weeks attempting to get Scarinza to release such a letter to them or to make a public retraction. After raising quite a stink, *privately* the family was told that Scarinza meant to say there was a letter from the boyfriend in the dorm room. The boyfriend admits there were numerous letters/notes from him. Maura had saved all of their correspondence. He insists there was nothing to indicate that she was running away or suicidal.

In July of 2005, the one and only very thorough search by NH LE was made for Maura and/or any of her items. The search was a one square mile area around the scene of the car accident. There is a story in the Caledonian Archives regarding this search. For reasons unknown to the family, July 2005 was the time that NH LE called in the Major Crimes unit and began to take seriously that Maura was not missing of her own accord. There are newstories mentioning the involvement of Major Crimes. The press conference after this search has been their final release of statements in the case. When Maura's Father, Fred Murray, was featured on Montel, LE refused to comment on the case. I recall this being stated on the Montel Show as well as being told by my source that knows Maura. Patricia Viola's husband (Pat is also a missing person) is preparing a link to the Montel Show featuring Maura. I will post it here on Maura's discussion board once it is linked to Maura's site www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/) so that you may know for certain that LE will not comment on the case..



"In reference to the state police delay for nine months in contacting the owner of a condominium in Bartlett, to whom Maura had placed one of her last two cell phone calls, he said, "I am not going to comment on specific parts of the investigation." - Who did she call in Bartlet..
Marua called a lady that has an online advertisement for a rental condo. This condo unit is the same one in which Maura has stayed with her family on several occasions. However, these particular owners had not previously rented to the Murrays, nor did they know Maura.

Although, the Caledonian Record stories are an incomplete record of Maura's case, they are the most inclusive and are available on line. The link to the archives pertaining to Maura are http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/archives/index.php?search_it=yes&sm=02&sd=01&sy=2004&em=10&ed=12&ey=2005&inputval=Maura+Murray&usage=Exactly&go=SEARCH%21 Be sure to read both Top News and Local News stories.


"Even though its still only my number 2 theory I may post another separate post on it. I admit that I am speculating - more like thinking out loud. At least I am citing the websources that I am basing that speculation on so others may investigate & perhaps come to better info. After all. . . . . . the whole purpose is to find out what happened to Maura, as much as is possible and not try to make me look brighter than I am. *smile*

And if we actually found out what happened to her and confirmed it? Personally I think the info should go to Law Enforcement for safety reasons.

http://www.mauramurray.com/
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/top_news/story/afa10e18b
http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2004/02/27/footprints_in_the_snow/

I got these links from one of the early posts but I forget whose post it was..
The Murray Family agrees with you that information should go to
New Hampshire State Police Major Crimes Unit - Lt. Russ Conte at: 1-603-271-2663 Lt. Conte is now in charge of Maura's investigation. Therefore, it *appears* that NH LE no longer think she is a runaway and/or suicidal.


Thanks for your interest.

Because I am so invoved in Maura's case, I want to let everyone know that I am going to be unavailable for the most part for the next 2 weeks. I may have a chance to make a post here and there. But, I will catch up when I return.

[docwho3]

To Peabody:
Thank you so much for taking the time & effort to share this info.
I had already begun finding some of the online info you mentioned.
I look forward to your return in 2 weeks.

[murraydwyer]

July 2005 was the time that NH LE called in the Major Crimes unit and began to take seriously that Maura was not missing of her own accord. There are newstories mentioning the involvement of Major Crimes. Peabody

I noted the time of this post...and realize that Peabody was up either very early or very late....but I think the search Peabody is talking about happened in July 2004.

Its good to see so much dicussion about Maura's case again, and invite those of you who are seeking information to visit Maura's website at www.MauraMurray.com. Sharon Rausch, Billy's mother, has attempted to correct some information and has added information that does not appear in print. There are also some pictures of the area where Maura's car was found.

[docwho3]

July 2005 was the time that NH LE called in the Major Crimes unit and began to take seriously that Maura was not missing of her own accord. There are newstories mentioning the involvement of Major Crimes. Peabody

I noted the time of this post...and realize that Peabody was up either very early or very late....but I think the search Peabody is talking about happened in July 2004.

Its good to see so much dicussion about Maura's case again, and invite those of you who are seeking information to visit Maura's website at www.MauraMurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/). Sharon Rausch, Billy's mother, has attempted to correct some information and has added information that does not appear in print. There are also some pictures of the area where Maura's car was found.
Do you (or does anyone reading this) know the time that she really began her trip? One article linked to her website said "Rausch said a dorm mate saw her leave the campus about 4 or 4:30 p.m. Feb 9." but the main page of her website says that a witness (I think they mean the bus driver) saw her & made 911 call at about 7:30 pm.
I am wondering how much time actually elapsed from when Maura started her journey to the time the bus driver called the police. I also need to know what the drive time should have been.

[murraydwyer]

Hi Doc,

The only information the family has about the time Maura actually left the UMass campus in Amherst is that statement 4:00 or 4:30. If Maura travelled directly up Route 91 with no traffic and no stops, it would have taken about 2 hours and 40 plus minutes to three hours--depends on what mappiing system you look at. I personally do not know whether Maura stopped at the bank and liquor store before or after leaving the campus. Considering the time of day that she left, it is unlikely that she made the trip without hitting some traffic. I also don't know how fast she could have gone on three cylinders. The family has some lingering questions about whether she may have stopped in the Woodsville area...I repeat questions...

According to published reports, the bus driver saw her around 7:30. We know that the police were called at 7:29 by the other neighbors. Also according to published reports, the bus driver had trouble getting through to the police (I believe you can find that account in the 2/20/04 Caledonian Record). Initial media reports (I have no idea where they got their information) said that Maura was in a single car crash between 7:00 and 7:30.

To Marisa...the initial reports did say there was a man seen in Maura's car smoking a cigarette...unfortunately I cannot find which article stated it of the ones I have on my computer...I only have notes...but I know for a fact that that is what was initially reported.

I do have to also consider that the police & higher officials seem to be hinting that they have information that she is ok and wants to stay gone. But is that true? Did she perhaps leave them a note or call them? Or are they jumping to conclusions because she pulled money out of account in bank. Docwho

Initially, there was a lot of speculation by the police, by the media, by everyone. There was speculation that Maura had gone there to commit suicide, there was and is speculation that she began a new life, etc. etc. In the absence of facts...there is only speculation. The speculation continues for the family and the general public...if the police have facts, they have not shared them. The family has been refused Freedom of Information (Right to Know in NH - RS 91) requests by several agencies in the State of NH. This I know to be a fact.

There is a timeline here, an elderly couple saw Maura after the bus driver safe and sound. Cyberlaw
If you have it available, I would very much like to see this information. I was unable to find the article that quoted the female neighbor as saying she turned away after she saw the bus driver talking to Maura...I will continue to look.


Originally Posted by cyberlaw
The bus driver was investigated and cleared, he is well known and respected in the neighbourhood, he phoned the cops because he was worried about Maura, they have investigated him and cleared him.

With all of the research I have done and all of the reports I have read and seen, I do not recall ever having seen this information anywhere. While we are all entitled to our belief systems, this appears to be a factual statement and I, too, would like to see the source.

I have a funny feeling that Maura did not want to finish school and become a nurse like her Mom, go to the same school as her Dad, and was "tired" of her relationship with "Big Bill", but the only way she could get out of this situation is to runaway from everything and everyone.......so she can do what she wants with whomever she wants, without any "family" pressure to conform to expectations.......

This is an understandable assumption for you to make based on some of the personal information you shared in posts that were inadvertently deleted last February and not available to the newcomers. If my memory serves me correctly, at some point you chose to run away from your family and obviously some situation that was intolerable to you. To me it is inconceivable that Maura ran away. While I can think of reasons to run away, being tired of a relationship or not wanting to finish school don't fit my belief system as reasons for running away from it all.

To Docwho...there are pictures on Maura's website of the red barn (Weathered Barn in some articles). The pictues show the view both east and west and give you a sense of the area. They are on page 5 of the thread Discuss Maura's Case-Discussion on Maura's case. Hopefully this link will work...:
Pictures on www.Mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60)

If he was heading home it is conceivable that the bus was empty but I always prefer facts over speculation. (Note: I have 'heard' it said on this forum,although not by you, that the bus was a school bus but have not yet seen that confirmed either.) Docwho

In answer to this question, the bus can be seen in the pictures
Red Barn (http://www.mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=75&sid=2df835e321aa351043fb037a45a79a9a) You can just see the blue ribbon on the tree to the left in the picture, though the family has been told the car ended up further down the street...and this is from the 2/20/04 Caledonian Record:
Atwood, a school bus driver for First Student, was returning from dropping off students after a day of skiing at Wildcat Mountain.

[Marisa714]

Hi Murraydywer,

Thanks for clearing up the 'smoker' for me, I misread what you wrote and thought the smoker was in the truck...oops! But now I do remember reading about someone seeing a man in the car w/her. But the bus driver didn't see her, right? Hmmm...I'd love to hear your opinion about the 'smoker'....do you think he was really there or not? Or not enough info either way to decide? If ya get a chance that is

[docwho3]

To murraydwyer:

Let me be sure that I understand you. For her to get from her 4 pm or 4:30 departure point to where she finally ran her car off the road would have taken a 2 hour & 40 minute to 3 hour trip? . . . .Wow that's what I call a long trip just to take a break!
I have to take my wife to a city, for her doctor appts., on an interstate that goes halfway across the state we live in and that only takes us about 1 hour & 20 minutes or so (one way.)

I was hoping you would tell me it should only take an hour and a half or less for her to get from dorm to that spot on the road as that would leave someone more time to haul her off, stash her somewhere & then call police later & try to pretend she had just vanished about 10 mins ago.

But ok- If she left at 4pm & drove for 2 hrs 40 mins that makes accident happen at 6:40 earliest. Lets say b driver is johny-on-the-spot & so has almost an hour opportunity to take either kill & hide or just bind & stash a live victem, call cops & then pretend she just disappeared in 10 mins (not accusing anyone but just looking at opportunity.) That's a tight schedule but a doable one. The prosecution had OJ on a pretty tight timeline too. ( Yes, before anyone reminds me, I know he beat the rap.)

Unless the whole 4 person police department (seems I read that number somewhere) camped out to follow him for next 36 hours he had time to move a victem more than once if need be.

But she could also have been picked up by a passerby on the road very quickly, even against her will. I know that because it is what happened in the small town murder I mentioned in an earlier post. His victem was an atheltic young girl & we all had troubles understanding how one person could abduct an athletic young person but he did it in only a few minutes and she was gone. I am glad he was caught & convicted but it taught me you can't underestimate the speed with which someone can be picked up.

I also wonder whats up with a 911 operator that can't actually get through to police? That sounds implausible but I don't live in that area. Maybe that's the norm there.

Back to subject at hand:
1. So we have an accident time that we only have one mans word about when it happened. And I see its at least possible she was there earlier than he said.

2. Also it was reported (allegedly by b. driver) that Maura said she had called AAA but that the article online says there is no cell phone coverage there. Hmmmm then if the article is true. . .either she lied or he did & we only have his word that was ever even said.

When all roads lead to Rome . . . . . investigate the roman. (sorry couldn't resist.)

I wonder if b driver has relatives land or other land of his own within 10 miles of his house? I do realize B. driver may be pure as the driven snow.
I am still looking at possibilities.

The friend following along minutes behind is also still a possibility, as is the stranger passerby.

I am just mulling over the pieces to see how they can be fit together as a possibility, like working those logic puzzles where they give you seemingly incomplete unrelated pieces of info and you have to unravel the whole description from those pieces. Makes me wonder why I am spending so much time on what is still only # 2 on my list of likely possible solutions. *smile* Even if I am totally wrong it will give me something to remind myself to be humble. Thanks for your patience.

[Peabody]

Many thanks to Jim Viola, husband of missing Patricia Viola, whohas made available a link to the video clip of Maura Murray's case featured on the Montel Williams Show: http://tinyurl.com/9eqkp (http://tinyurl.com/9eqkp)



Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

I emailed one of the news reporters that have reported on Maura's disappearance to ask if there is any new info and asked some questions.
Part of the answer I got surprised me.

I am quoting only a part of the email since I did not specifically tell the source I intended to use the answers I received on the forum (although I did indeed tell the reporter that I had joined an online forum that discusses missing person cases.)

from a news reporters email to me:
". . . . . But after some investigating, it turns out the police investigation probably didn't make a difference when it comes to Maura's whereabouts. Fred Murray, Maura's dad, said something very interesting to the media the day after Maura went missing, but retracted that statement just days later... Instead, he got the media focusing on the poor police investigation. With some probing, you can probably find out on your own what he said." hmmmmm I wonder what was meant by that?

[Peabody]

Post by DocWho3:
I emailed one of the news reporters that have reported on Maura's disappearance to ask if there is any new info and asked some questions.
Part of the answer I got surprised me.

I am quoting only a part of the email since I did not specifically tell the source I intended to use the answers I received on the forum (although I did indeed tell the reporter that I had joined an online forum that discusses missing person cases.)
Quote:
from a news reporters email to me:
". . . . . But after some investigating, it turns out the police investigation probably didn't make a difference when it comes to Maura's whereabouts. Fred Murray, Maura's dad, said something very interesting to the media the day after Maura went missing, but retracted that statement just days later... Instead, he got the media focusing on the poor police investigation. With some probing, you can probably find out on your own what he said."
hmmmmm I wonder what was meant by that?




So do I!

I am VERY familiar with Maura's case, and I cannot recall any remark by Maura's father that was ****retracted***, nor any remark that he made that would have taken the media's attention from the search from Maura to the poor police investigation......Mr. Murray wanted the media attention focused on the search for Maura. Most of all, he wanted the police searching for Maura.

Would it be possible for you to email this reporter again to learn IF the remark in question was reported in his newspaper? He has already told us (you) it was the *day after* Maura went missing. I find this strange in itself because Mr. Murray did not arrive in NH until the morning of the 2nd day that Maura was missing (Wed, Feb 11) , and did not learn of her missing until the evening of the first day after her missing (Tues, Feb 10).

I would be very interested in following up on this development.

Thanks for your sleuthing! ............sorry, I was unable to exclude my comments from within your quoted comments :-(


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

. . . . I would be very interested in following up on this development.

Thanks for your sleuthing! ............sorry, I was unable to exclude my comments from within your quoted comments :-(


Bring Maura Home!
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)




I have sent you a private message to allow you to follow up on the source.
I hope it helps you.

I too would be interested to know what was meant by those cryptic remarks but I have not yet pushed the issue since he obviously was uncomfortable with just telling me outright what he meant. Perhaps he was afraid of violating some ethical rule or maybe just afraid of a lawsuit of some kind. I just do not know at this point.

[Grassyknoll2]

Hi guys,

Maura Murray and Brianna Maitland are both featured this week in the SPOTLIGHT thread....and there's info on another girl missing in Portland, ME here on Websleuths and on Brianna's site...Lynn Moran, Portland, ME last seen Oct. 11th. There is also a new section on Maura's case information.

GK

[Peabody]

Maura is being featured along with Brianna Maitland in Websleuths Weekly Spotlight for Missing Persons. http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30819


Please check out the information provided there.

The are photos and comments by those who know Maura personally will give you more insight into Maura personally.

Thank You Websleuths!



Bring Maura Home
www.mauramurray.com (http://www.mauramurray.com/)
www.spbowers.com\mauramissing.html (http://www.spbowers.com/mauramissing.html)

[docwho3]

Maura Murray missing nursing student summary of case as I read it:
Maura murray was a nursing student and very able track athelete.
Nursing student Maura murray had a $10,000 car wreck a few days before she disappeared in February in N.H.
Sometime the week before she disappeared young Maura Murray decided something important and it involved
going away for at least several days. She set up an excuse for leaving with her boss at work & her profs at school by saying she had to attend to a death in the family. She searched hotel room availability on her computer in her dorm room. (Wish I knew if she searched singles or doubles rooms.) Those motels were booked up due to mardi gras. She also called someone that owned a condo that had been rented in the past. She also called someone in a dorm room but that person remains unknown. Then before leaving she withdrew almost all her money from her bank account at about 3:40 pm. She packed up the stuff from her room but did not take it all. She did take her school books with her and a book that was a gift from her dad and a pic of her brother. She called her boyfriend on the day she went missing and left a voice mail of her whimpering (according to him.) I don't know if this voice mail content can be verified. Some of the intial news reports said the call showed no upset on her part so I wonder if someones story later changed or if reporting was poor. She stopped at a store & bought quite a bit of liquor and possibly some pain reliever. She then drove off to her destiny as far as we know. The next time she is confirmed to be seen was when she had a 2nd wreck at 7pm or 7:30 pm. Maura is seen and approached by a bus driver on his way home who offers her help which she declines saying she has already called AAA. One news report also states there is no cell coverage in the area but I have not confirmed that to be so. The buss driver was only 100 yards or so from home & so he went eastward to his home. He had trouble getting through to police. His neighbor called police but I don't know how neighbor knew to do that - whether busdriver asked him to or neighbor saw Maura. The police came within 10 minutes & yet Maura was gone when they arrived. Later it is reported someone saw Maura walking or jogging east on the road. And later a dog search is reported to have lost her scent on the road east near the busdrivers house.

Her car had most of the stuff she packed still in it although some booze bottles seem to be missing along with her backpack.

Most of these details can be verified reading the linked news reports from her website at
http://www.mauramurray.com/news.html I will also soon try to post a more detailed look at things which will have linked sources in it.

[Marisa714]

Maura Murray missing nursing student summary of case as I read it:
Maura murray was a nursing student and very able track athelete.
Nursing student Maura murray had a $10,000 car wreck a few days before she disappeared in February in N.H.
Sometime the week before she disappeared young Maura Murray decided something important and it involved
going away for at least several days. She set up an excuse for leaving with her boss at work & her profs at school by saying she had to attend to a death in the family. She searched hotel room availability on her computer in her dorm room. (Wish I knew if she searched singles or doubles rooms.) Those motels were booked up due to mardi gras. She also called someone that owned a condo that had been rented in the past. She also called someone in a dorm room but that person remains unknown. Then before leaving she withdrew almost all her money from her bank account at about 3:40 pm. She packed up the stuff from her room but did not take it all. She did take her school books with her and a book that was a gift from her dad and a pic of her brother. She called her boyfriend on the day she went missing and left a voice mail of her whimpering (according to him.) I don't know if this voice mail content can be verified. Some of the intial news reports said the call showed no upset on her part so I wonder if someones story later changed or if reporting was poor. She stopped at a store & bought quite a bit of liquor and possibly some pain reliever. She then drove off to her destiny as far as we know. The next time she is confirmed to be seen was when she had a 2nd wreck at 7pm or 7:30 pm. Maura is seen and approached by a bus driver on his way home who offers her help which she declines saying she has already called AAA. One news report also states there is no cell coverage in the area but I have not confirmed that to be so. The buss driver was only 100 yards or so from home & so he went eastward to his home. He had trouble getting through to police. His neighbor called police but I don't know how neighbor knew to do that - whether busdriver asked him to or neighbor saw Maura. The police came within 10 minutes & yet Maura was gone when they arrived. Later it is reported someone saw Maura walking or jogging east on the road. And later a dog search is reported to have lost her scent on the road east near the busdrivers house.

Her car had most of the stuff she packed still in it although some booze bottles seem to be missing along with her backpack.

Most of these details can be verified reading the linked news reports from her website at
http://www.mauramurray.com/news.html I will also soon try to post a more detailed look at things which will have linked sources in it.

Hey doc,
I think your a great sleuther! I was wondering if you'd mind taking a peek at the missing but not forgotten thread for Maura? I'd like to know what your take is on the last few posts (about the bus driver)...if you want to that is! Thanks

[gatetrekker44]

but left out a few key points:
1. The person who supposedly saw Maura walking/running down the road did not report this info until 3-4 months after Maura went missing-stating he didn't realize the significance(was he hiding under a rock all that time?)
2. That other than this report-by his own admission, the bus driver becomes the last admitted person to see or speak with Maura.
3. That LE returned Maura's personal items to her family WITHOUT doing any forensics-and then turned around and asked for them back for testing after mucho bad publicity about their handling of the case was reported.
4. That a certain segment of LE in NH was being investigated for involvment in a murder and cover-up/and a poster here who stated they were retired from NH LE spoke about the sloppy, slipshod investigation into Maura's case.
5. That from the start-LE was almost fanatically obsessed with insisting that Maura had disappeared voluntarily-and it was only thru the tireless efforts of her family and friends and certain folks here at Websleuths that any real investigating was done at all.

Believe what you will-but I personally believe that there is a sinister, almost pathological mindset in the NH LE community that absolutely refuses to admit that Maura is missing not of her own choosing-and that someone currently or formerly involved in LE or who is well acquainted with the LE in the area is involved-and that Maura may not be the only victim! :twocents:


Bring Maura home!

[docwho3]

Hey doc,
I think your a great sleuther! I was wondering if you'd mind taking a peek at the missing but not forgotten thread for Maura? I'd like to know what your take is on the last few posts (about the bus driver)...if you want to that is! Thanks
Thanks for the kind words. Here are a few thoughts:
A post in this thread places her start-trip-time at about 4:00 pm to 4:30 pm (and planethuff (www.planethuff.com/twilight_kingdom/archives/2005/07/maura_brianna_a.html) at sometime after 3:40)and yet reports also place her in a wrecked car at about 7:30 pm. Now the bus driver might have had opportunity to harm Maura but since reports also hint at another neighbor having spoken to her or at least they called the cops so I can't say for sure that he had unobserved opportunity to do anything unless distance & snow might mask his actions from his neighbor or unless neighbor helped him commit a crime. Makes me wonder though if this was the same neighbor that allegedly complained about searchers on his land and barred his land from them. I have not seen anything to indicate that the busdriver's wife was home at the time but there was mention made of a neighbor being home. Also If busdriver's wife was home why didn't he ask her to go with him to speak to Maura since its reported that his wife later said (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt) that she understood that Maura might have felt bad about her husband's large size and so refused his offer of help for that reason. To me that sounds as if she was not there when it happened. I don't know if the police suspected something of him or if they were just being thorough but news reports said that the bus driver was questioned several times.

Question:If Maura had just had a wreck but had no cell phone coverage then would she be willing to sit there in the cold & dark with no real hope of rescue? Or would she perhaps walk towards the bus drivers house or the nearest lit up house looking for someone with a phone? Or might she know someone was already on the way on the same road to meet her at her destination? All this sort of hinges on there not being cell coverage because if she had cell coverage why not call for help? Or did she? At what time were her last few cell calls made? Were any cell calls made after 7 pm?

As yet I have no pet theory. I am still gathering data & asking questions & sometimes offering up thoses questions & thoughts in posts for others to help either confirm or deny or just give opinions of those questions & thoughts so that we might hopefuly help Maura's case be resolved in the best way possible.

[docwho3]

but left out a few key points:
1. The person who supposedly saw Maura walking/running down the road did not report this info until 3-4 months after Maura went missing-stating he didn't realize the significance(was he hiding under a rock all that time?)Well I said it was a summary. But if you believe that the bus driver got her as you seem to indicate then whether he picked her up from her car wreck site or whether he picked her up just as she was walking to his house or whether she in fact walked to his front door does not really matter does it? Other than it might prove he lied about the details of his exact encounter with her.
2. That other than this report-by his own admission, the bus driver becomes the last admitted person to see or speak with Maura.Not sure that is correct in light of the neighbor having called police. How did neighbor know to call cops? Did busdriver call up & ask him to? Or did Neighbor also talk to her? Until we know more about neighbor's exact involvement in the situation that night it is hard to draw solid conclusions.
3. That LE returned Maura's personal items to her family WITHOUT doing any forensics-and then turned around and asked for them back for testing after mucho bad publicity about their handling of the case was reported.Yes, I did not mention that as my purpose is not to flame the cops but to try to fit together the pieces to help resolve this case.
4. That a certain segment of LE in NH was being investigated for involvment in a murder and cover-up/and a poster here who stated they were retired from NH LE spoke about the sloppy, slipshod investigation into Maura's case. As I am still gathering data I was not aware of L.E. investigating Maura's case being investigated for murder. That would need to include more than one officer in her case I would think but I am willing to read sources with full details if you post the links.
5. That from the start-LE was almost fanatically obsessed with insisting that Maura had disappeared voluntarily-and it was only thru the tireless efforts of her family and friends and certain folks here at Websleuths that any real investigating was done at all.Given the facts as already stated I can see where people might think Maura planned to leave voluntarily. I think the question in my mind is whether she meant time-off to be permanent or not. At present I am not yet convnced it was intended to be permanent.
Believe what you will-but I personally believe that there is a sinister, almost pathological mindset in the NH LE community that absolutely refuses to admit that Maura is missing not of her own choosing-and that someone currently or formerly involved in LE or who is well acquainted with the LE in the area is involved-and that Maura may not be the only victim! :twocents:

Bring Maura home!I have no pet theory yet. I am still gathering data and asking questions. I am quite willing to look at any linked to data you have on the subject. L.E. might well be involved for all I know. But I also have no real indication yet that L.E. is involved either.

Before you get angry (your last post part sounded angry) you should please realize that any good investigation has to look at all the facts & must also ask questions about everyone & everything.

Posting links to relevant info will do more to convince readers than making statements.

Thank you for your patience.

[Marisa714]

Thanks for the kind words. Here are a few thoughts:
A post in this thread places her start-trip-time at about 4:00 pm to 4:30 pm (and planethuff (www.planethuff.com/twilight_kingdom/archives/2005/07/maura_brianna_a.html) at sometime after 3:40)and yet reports also place her in a wrecked car at about 7:30 pm. Now the bus driver might have had opportunity to harm Maura but since reports also hint at another neighbor having spoken to her or at least they called the cops so I can't say for sure that he had unobserved opportunity to do anything unless distance & snow might mask his actions from his neighbor or unless neighbor helped him commit a crime. Makes me wonder though if this was the same neighbor that allegedly complained about searchers on his land and barred his land from them. I have not seen anything to indicate that the busdriver's wife was home at the time but there was mention made of a neighbor being home. Also If busdriver's wife was home why didn't he ask her to go with him to speak to Maura since its reported that his wife later said (http://ledger.southofboston.com/articles/2004/02/28/news/news02.txt) that she understood that Maura might have felt bad about her husband's large size and so refused his offer of help for that reason. To me that sounds as if she was not there when it happened. I don't know if the police suspected something of him or if they were just being thorough but news reports said that the bus driver was questioned several times.

Question:If Maura had just had a wreck but had no cell phone coverage then would she be willing to sit there in the cold & dark with no real hope of rescue? Or would she perhaps walk towards the bus drivers house or the nearest lit up house looking for someone with a phone? Or might she know someone was already on the way on the same road to meet her at her destination? All this sort of hinges on there not being cell coverage because if she had cell coverage why not call for help? Or did she? At what time were her last few cell calls made? Were any cell calls made after 7 pm?

As yet I have no pet theory. I am still gathering data & asking questions & sometimes offering up thoses questions & thoughts in posts for others to help either confirm or deny or just give opinions of those questions & thoughts so that we might hopefuly help Maura's case be resolved in the best way possible.

Thanks for your insight! Her last call was made at:
I also learned that Maura had checked her voice mail from her cell phone at approximately 4:30 PM on Monday, February 9th and that the very last call made from her cell phone was approximately at 1:00 PM on the 9th (both of these times are from memory.) When the cell phone bill arrived in March, we learned that the last call from Maura’s cell phone was to Billy’s cell phone. Billy told me that Maura tried to reach him by phone and sent him one email on Monday, Feb 9th as quoted in the outline.

http://mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=163

Also this is of some importance IMO (since you said your still gathering info I wasn't sure if you'd come accross this yet)....I'm gonna post this next bit on another post b/c it's very long!

[Marisa714]

This is one post as part of a timeline over at Maura's site...I think this a ton of info and it's all in that one timeline!

http://mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=163

Call February 11th - Red Cross:
Billy and I both were insistent that the missed call/message to him that morning was from Maura. I had listened to the message. The ‘message’ was very short. It consisted of a very short time of labored breathing (the sound we all make if we have exerted ourselves in very cold weather), two, possibly three very wet sniffs as if someone were crying or had a very bad cold and ended in the middle of a very soft muffled sob. The police played the message through their land line and said that it only sounded like someone humming. Detective Landry with the NH SP finally told us that he traced the call to the Red Cross. Please note that this information was given to us Wednesday evening *after* we had provided information about all of the people and agencies that Bill, Billy and I had talked to since learning of Maura’s disappearance. Per Red Cross: ... routinely she would not call any soldier as it is not necessary to speak to anyone but the parent or spouse making the request and the commanding officer. Also, I have my notes for the information that she requested and feel confident that I never gave her Billy’s cell phone number. The only number that I gave her was my cell phone number and the phone number of Billy’s Commanding Officer at Fort Sill. Of course, she already had my home phone number from the message to the answering service. It is also my opinion that the sounds in the message make absolutely no sense *if* the call was from the Red Cross. Why would the Red Cross not leave a message, or if the other explanation that is to follow is the case, why would a Red Cross Employee/Volunteer make labored breathing, crying sounds while making a professional call? Another reason the NH SP said that it was not reasonable to believe the message came from Maura was that she would have a left a message instead of just sounds. To my way of thinking the main reason that Maura may not have left a message is that Billy frequently has a problem with his phone whereby the caller does not realize that their call has made connection with Billy’s phone. I have called him 2 or 3 times in a row, thinking that my call did not go through. Until we realized this problem just in the last few months since Maura went missing, Billy would always ask why I hung up and called again. If this were the case, then Maura may not have had any other minutes remaining on the calling card or she was in the undesirable position of not being able to place the call again. As to the Red Cross possibility as suggested by NH SP, Billy never received a call or a voice message from them.
2/27/04 - However, Scarinza said that angle has been eliminated because investigators traced the calling card to the American Red Cross officials who had been attempting to contact Bill Rausch.
Caledonian Record 2/27/04



This message is something that really makes me believe that something happened to Maura, it just seems so strange.

[Marisa714]

Ok I just saw this too! How could they positive the bus driver and neighbors had NOTHING to with this if they didn't even search their property? This really bothers me!

http://mauramurray.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=163

2/27/04 - Scarinza says there is absolutely no evidence foul play has been involved, and that people living in the area of the accident scene have been interviewed several times.

A search of nearby homes by a canine team as well as forensics experts would require a search warrant. And a search warrant would require probable cause. Caledonian Record 2/27/04

Rausch said family members were told by at least one person living near the accident site a man was seen in Maura's car after the accident. Caledonian Record 2/27/04

[docwho3]

To marisa714:
Thank you for the help with info.
I have also been reading the info at the web link you gave me. Thx.
It will take me some time to digest it all so don't be surprised If I take a day or two and then suddenly ask more questions.

Without giving out more info than she would like, my wife has had A.M.L. (Accute Myelogenous Leukemia) & is now recovering from a bone marrow transplant. Things have went just fine so far. But I must drive her across half the state & into the next state every other week for a checkup. Tomorrow (Monday) morning we will be going there & so will be gone until late afternoon.
Next time we will probably revert to every other Thursday as thats our normal day.

[Marisa714]

To marisa714:
Thank you for the help with info.
I have also been reading the info at the web link you gave me. Thx.
It will take me some time to digest it all so don't be surprised If I take a day or two and then suddenly ask more questions.

Without giving out more info than she would like, my wife has had A.M.L. (Accute Myelogenous Leukemia) & is now recovering from a bone marrow transplant. Things have went just fine so far. But I must drive her across half the state & into the next state every other week for a checkup. Tomorrow (Monday) morning we will be going there & so will be gone until late afternoon.
Next time we will probably revert to every other Thursday as thats our normal day.

I'm very sorry to hear your wife has AML (or had?) And I'm very happy to hear the bone marrow transplant went well! I will be thinking of the both of you! Hope everything continues to go well. I completely understand if it will take you a few days, I'll be here anyways...I think I always am ;-)
I know the info at the link is a lot to digest, it's hard for me to keep it organized in my mind. I'm very happy your posting here for Maura!

Marisa

[docwho3]

I'm very sorry to hear your wife has AML (or had?) And I'm very happy to hear the bone marrow transplant went well! I will be thinking of the both of you! Hope everything continues to go well. I completely understand if it will take you a few days, I'll be here anyways...I think I always am ;-)
I know the info at the link is a lot to digest, it's hard for me to keep it organized in my mind. I'm very happy your posting here for Maura!

Marisa
Had :-)

Things are going well now so far & we hope that continues.

I am hoping that while I digest things some of the super sleuths in the Taylor B. Forum will use their wonderful data gathering & analyzing talents & resources to run background checks, search out more info on everyone involved (including busdriver & neighbor) and generally show off their great skills in solving this soonest. And I mean that as a compliment & not sarcasm to them.

They are some really talented people and I won't mind "eating their dust" - lol.

The main thing is to resolve Maura's case the best way possible.

[docwho3]

I really need to go rest for tomorrow but one more little question:

When searching the area after of her disappearance was any tape found, maybe wadded up,such as reflective tape? - not the type that would be used to bind anyone.

[Marisa714]

I really need to go rest for tomorrow but one more little question:

When searching the area after of her disappearance was any tape found, maybe wadded up,such as reflective tape? - not the type that would be used to bind anyone.

Hmm...I'm not sure. I'll see if I can find anything though!

[murraydwyer]

A couple of points

One news report also states there is no cell coverage in the area but I have not confirmed that to be so. The buss driver was only 100 yards or so from home & so he went eastward to his home. He had trouble getting through to police. His neighbor called police but I don't know how neighbor knew to do that - whether busdriver asked him to or neighbor saw Maura. The police came within 10 minutes & yet Maura was gone when they arrived. Later it is reported someone saw Maura walking or jogging east on the road. And later a dog search is reported to have lost her scent on the road east near the busdrivers house. Docwho

I have confirmed that there is no cell coverage. I had the same phone service with a dual band phone (meaning it would search for another type of signal)...if my memory serves me correctly, it wouldn't even go into search mode...forget what it said, but there was nothing.

The neighbor has told friends and family members that they heard a car accelerate (exactly what I did further east on that road when my car was losing power) and then a thud. Now I've wondered whether Maura might have gotten stuck and tried to get out of the snow on the side of the road??

[docwho3]

A couple of points . . .
Just a quick note to say I haven't forgotten you all. I am still digesting all this info as well as looking into a few other forums. Then I also have to go do normal everyday stuff too, paying bills, shopping etc.

I did notice the bit about the extra police car on the webpage & have also been looking into finding reported instances of such a thing happening in relation to New Hampshire in particular. I actually found a few instances of such a thing.
It evidently isn't a thing totally unheard of for people to do.

fake police officer News - September 22, 2005
Pelham teen accused of impersonating a police officer
http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=60753

Portsmouth, NH Tuesday, June 3, 2003
Four face charges after being arrested in fake police cruiser
http://www.seacoastonline.com/2003news/06032003/south_of/32113.htm

Man arrested for using fake badge
Updated: 8/4/2004 10:51 PM
http://www.capitalnews9.com/content/headlines/?ArID=87582&SecID=33

Police seek victims of police impersonator k victims of police impersonator: 7/15/01
http://www.s-t.com/daily/07-01/07-15-01/a03wn018.htm

Hampton, NH Friday, January 9, 2004
The impersonating an officer charge stems from an incident on Sept. 28. On that date, Parks was stopped in the parking lot of Master McGrath’s in Seabrook by Seabrook Sgt. Michael Gallagher. Asked for identification, Parks showed Gallagher a sheriff’s badge identifying him as a deputy sheriff out of New London, Conn.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/2004news/hampton/01092004/news/69476.htm

[murraydwyer]

Found the July 2001 article particularly interesting...there were other instances of police impersonators more recent, too...I'll try to find them.

There are a few reasons the 2001 article is of interest

Police seek victims of police impersonator
By The Associated Press
"He's all over the state of New Hampshire."

Robert Loud, 51, was arrested Friday in Nashua, three days after a Merrimack woman raised questions about being pulled over in the city.

The woman in the Nashua case said an unmarked police cruiser with flashing blue lights pulled her over on the Daniel Webster Highway Tuesday afternoon.
A man in a police uniform said he stopped her because a tail light was out. He had the woman sit in his car while he searched hers,


Sprankle said Loud told investigators he stops suspected drunken drivers at night and drives them home after searching their cars.

He said officers found a huge collection of police gear at Loud's home, including ammunition, handcuffs, radios, flashlights, police clothing and hats, about 20 real police badges and about 1,000 patches from various police departments around the country.
They also found various magnetic police seals that can be affixed to car doors to make vehicles look like police cars, he said.
They found no weapons or items such as pepper spray, Sprankle said.
He said Loud has been convicted of impersonating a police officer in the past. The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Department investigated him in 1993, Sprankle said, and state police also investigated him in connection with car stops on the Everett Turnpike in Nashua.
Police are asking anyone who believes they may have been stopped by Loud to call (603) 594-3554. They also are interested in talking to anyone Loud may have driven home.
"Our concerns are two-fold," Sprankle said, "for his safety and the citizens' safety, dealing with an individual representing himself to be the police."

[docwho3]

Found the July 2001 article particularly interesting...there were other instances of police impersonators more recent, too...I'll try to find them.

There are a few reasons the 2001 article is of interest

Police seek victims of police impersonator
By The Associated Press
"He's all over the state of New Hampshire."

Robert Loud, 51, was arrested Friday in Nashua, three days after a Merrimack woman raised questions about being pulled over in the city.

The woman in the Nashua case said an unmarked police cruiser with flashing blue lights pulled her over on the Daniel Webster Highway Tuesday afternoon.
A man in a police uniform said he stopped her because a tail light was out. He had the woman sit in his car while he searched hers,


Sprankle said Loud told investigators he stops suspected drunken drivers at night and drives them home after searching their cars.

He said officers found a huge collection of police gear at Loud's home, including ammunition, handcuffs, radios, flashlights, police clothing and hats, about 20 real police badges and about 1,000 patches from various police departments around the country.
They also found various magnetic police seals that can be affixed to car doors to make vehicles look like police cars, he said.
They found no weapons or items such as pepper spray, Sprankle said.
He said Loud has been convicted of impersonating a police officer in the past. The Hillsborough County Sheriff's Department investigated him in 1993, Sprankle said, and state police also investigated him in connection with car stops on the Everett Turnpike in Nashua.
Police are asking anyone who believes they may have been stopped by Loud to call (603) 594-3554. They also are interested in talking to anyone Loud may have driven home.
"Our concerns are two-fold," Sprankle said, "for his safety and the citizens' safety, dealing with an individual representing himself to be the police."
I thought you might find that one interesting.
But the question is where was he on that particular night in question. Was he in jail or already out? It could be the way it happened . . . .Search her car, walk back to his own car (where she was) & he is carrying a few bottles 'for evidence' and then gets in to either 'take her in' or to 'drive her home'. . . .

In my mind it's at least a possibility so far.

And these links I found may only be what little the public knows about that made the easily findable internet pages. I wonder how many other impersonators there were when maura disappeared that we don't yet know about.


It's not my pet theory yet because I don't have one but that sort of thing sounds possible at first look.

[Grassyknoll2]

Hi guys...this impersonating issue is one I looked at a while ago...



POSTED: 12:14 p.m. EST January 10, 2005
UPDATED: 6:07 p.m. EST January 10, 2005


Story by thewmurchannel.com (http://www.thewmurchannel.com/)

SALEM, N.H. -- A Massachusetts man accused of impersonating a police officer was scheduled to appear in Salem district court Monday, but he never showed up.

Eric Williams, 22, of North Andover, Mass., was accused of pretending to be a cop, driving an unmarked cruiser and carrying a phony badge. He faces five felony charges and two misdemeanors. Prosecutors said Williams bought