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View Full Version : MS MS - Pascagoula, WhtFem Child 45UFMS, 1-3, Tossed From Bridge Into Dog River, Dec'82


coco
07-24-2005, 06:30 AM
It's coming up for 23 years since this little one was found in the Dog River, apparently tossed of a bridge. This little girl was only approx 2 yrs old ,a baby.
Please read up at the following link-
http://doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html

mysteriew
07-24-2005, 11:52 PM
I don't like those sketches. The sketch on the left looks nothing like the one on the right. There is a photo in the middle, I wonder where they got that? The sketch on the right more closely resembles the photo than the sketch on the left, IMO. It is a shame they haven't been unable to identify her. In the 22 years since she has been found, you would think that some relative would report that she hadn't been seen. She was a cute lil darlin'.

lisag
07-25-2005, 09:39 AM
I was under the impression that the "photo" in the middle, was actually a sketch also....
It's sad that this child has gone unidentified for this many years ! Someone has to miss her !!

Jenn
07-25-2005, 11:24 AM
OMG what a cute little girl! :mad: I can not believe that her parents aren't looking for her!! It makes you wonder if they were involved.

Jenn
07-25-2005, 11:28 AM
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=400053&orgPrefix=NCMU&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

kahskye
07-25-2005, 01:26 PM
My gosh! How do you just toss a child out the window like she was garbage? That's a shame this case is unsolved and that no one ever came forward to claim this precious baby. It makes me wonder if the mother might not have been murdered too or maybe she's the murderer. I just can't believe no one else ever reported her missing. It's like no one even knew she existed.

mmohucap
07-25-2005, 06:58 PM
I was under the impression that the "photo" in the middle, was actually a sketch also....
it is. You can definitely tell if you look at the full-size version:

http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMU400053c1.jpg

Sunshinelady
07-26-2005, 03:41 PM
Visit the forum below to read newspaper articles about this case.



http://p208.ezboard.com/ficaremissingpersonscoldcasesfrm13.showMessage?top icID=10.topic

2sisters
07-26-2005, 08:20 PM
She could be from anywhere considering where she was found. The area is an easy, possibly, short drive from the New Orleans area, Mobile, Florida, or any part of MS.

KatherineQ
07-26-2005, 09:26 PM
It seems strange that the baby was wearing something completely different from what she was reportedly seen wearing.

Is it possible that they were hit, in the dark, and the person just drove off? It seems like they could have accidentally, even unknowingly, been knocked off the bridge.

If both mom and baby are missing all this time, that's more believable that no one really knows what happened, than if just the baby went missing. If this mom was a transient type her family may not even know she had a baby.

Sure is a sad story, and a sad way to go, so anonymously.

Richard
11-25-2005, 08:43 AM
Baby Girl, 2, located 5 Dec 1982, MS

Unidentified White Female
Located on December 5, 1982 in Escatawpa, Jackson County, Mississippi.
Cause of death was homicide

Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 2 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 2'6" - 76 cm; 20 - 25 lbs - 11 kg.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Strawberry blonde hair; either brown or blue eyes, due to the cloudiness of the eyes.
Dentals: 12 baby teeth had grown in at the time of her death.
Clothing: The victim was discovered wearing a Cradle Togs' pink and white dress which buttoned in the back and a disposable diaper.

Case History
The victim was located in the Dog River, beneath the westbound lane of I-10 in Pascagoula, MS, on December 5, 1982. She was apparently thrown off the Interstate 10 bridge 36 - 48 hours prior to discovery.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this child's identity or the circumstances surrounding her homicide, please contact: Jackson County Sheriff's Department Capt. Mick Sears 228-769-3063

Agency Case Number: 82-21094

Source Information:

National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
doenetwork.org

Link:
http://www.doenetwork.org/

docwho3
11-25-2005, 09:01 AM
Here is a link to the page about the girl.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html

2sisters
11-25-2005, 10:17 AM
If I remember right, someone had posted about this little girl before and they had old articles to go with the story. I tried to search for the thread but can't find it. Do the threads get deleted after so long?

mysteriew
11-25-2005, 12:52 PM
If I remember right, someone had posted about this little girl before and they had old articles to go with the story. I tried to search for the thread but can't find it. Do the threads get deleted after so long?

I don't think so. It is usually a matter of finding the right keywords.

mysteriew
11-25-2005, 12:57 PM
I think this might be the case:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26761&highlight=Dog+River

Mr. E
11-25-2005, 02:55 PM
Okay, so the truck driver (in the linked newspaper articles) says he spotted a body in the river of an adult wearing a blue plaid shirt and blue jeans. The police discover the body of a baby 10 miles away wearing red plaid. They search and search for the adult body, who they assume is the baby's mother, and they never find her.

Where did she go?

Somebody suggested the mother and child were hit by a car, but I still don't understand why the bodies would be so separated. And I can't figure out why they would search extensively for the body the trucker said he saw, but never find it.

I wonder if the child's mother was a runaway who maybe was pregnant when she ran away, and that is why nobody is looking for the child. They don't know she existed.

LButler
11-26-2005, 10:38 AM
That trucker knew an awful lot about a submerged body under a bridge he was crossing - right down to the shirt and the pants it was wearing. How can you cross a bridge, spot a body possibly caught on a piling, slow down, focus in, plainly see it and an ice chest from a semi? And, then, BAM, the body disappears? That sounds like a really strange story.

Also, wonder how hard they worked on finding that pick-up truck she refused to get into? Maybe she was running from someone and that someone was in that truck.

2sisters
10-16-2006, 12:11 PM
bumping for this little girl

LButler
10-16-2006, 04:16 PM
I've looked at this before and always assumed the woman's body was recovered as well. Appears not to be so.

Ms Suzanne
10-17-2006, 07:56 PM
I've looked at this before and always assumed the woman's body was recovered as well. Appears not to be so.hi

I feel the answers will be in the trucking community.I feel they were both abducted.I believe the trucker witnessed a womans body further down.I feel they dragged the river in the wrong place.


The newspaper article said Hammond told him he saw the body 1,000 feet west of "steel grates"on the big bridge between the spands.
gussberry said he assumed this to mean 1,000 feet west of the east Pascagoula River and dragging operations would be concentrated in that area.
If the body reported by Hammond is the mother of the baby,how did they get seperated by 10 miles or more.

suzanne

teonspaleprincess
12-24-2006, 02:53 PM
I don't know if this has been posted before and I am not sure how to link the actual page if someone wants to help me out.
The little girl was about 2yrs old was found floating in the river along with a woman who was presumed to be the mother, although neither have been identified and law enforcement will not perform DNA test to determine it one way or the other. To me, this case seems solvable.

HollywoodBound
12-24-2006, 03:03 PM
Here is a link to the case on Doenetwork:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/45ufms.html
Looks like the mother is possibly dead which could be why the child is not reported as missing.

teonspaleprincess
12-25-2006, 06:08 PM
It is hard to believe that someone has not reported that a mother and child went missing. They have to be missed by someone!! I remember another case on the doe network where a woman's torso was foud in only her nightgown and a child was found a few days later. I can't find it now, I am hoping that maybe it was solved.

cwiz24
12-26-2006, 11:31 AM
Here is a link to the case on Doenetwork:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/45ufms.html
Looks like the mother is possibly dead which could be why the child is not reported as missing.

All three of the pictures included with this unidentified file look different to me.

MistyM
12-26-2006, 08:20 PM
where did they get the middle picture from? the woman's wallet? i dont understand why they have the two sketches (that do look totally different) then a picture.

teonspaleprincess
12-26-2006, 09:28 PM
The picture is computer generated.

ihadcabinfever
12-27-2006, 01:32 AM
That baby is adorable. So sad.
Does anyone remember the case where the grandmother took off with the baby and they thought she threw her in the water ? I think she was questioned .
I think the grandmother was questioned because they said she had kidnapped the baby and they couldn't find the baby and said the grandmother was sciztophrenic. I just don't remember when it was . I'll have to read through doenetwork.

teonspaleprincess
12-27-2006, 09:51 AM
Acacia Patience Bishop

http://www.childsearch.org/acacia_bishop.html

I followed this case religiously...and prayed so hard they would find her. I am not convinced the grandmother actually killed her. I think she may have stashed her with someone in the hope of getting her later.

2sisters
12-27-2006, 10:01 AM
there is an interesting thread in the cold case section about the Escatawpa ,MS jane doe.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32669&highlight=escatawpa

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26761&highlight=Dog+River

teonspaleprincess
12-27-2006, 10:10 AM
Thank you. I did not know there was already a thread on this angel. I don't know why I thought the mother had been found. I must be mixing up that case with the other that was on the doe network about a mother and baby being found in the water.

2sisters
12-27-2006, 12:36 PM
Thank you. I did not know there was already a thread on this angel. I don't know why I thought the mother had been found. I must be mixing up that case with the other that was on the doe network about a mother and baby being found in the water.It is a strange case. What harm does a baby do? Why throw a baby away like that? The second link I posted has new articles if you are interested.

2sisters
12-27-2006, 12:39 PM
Bumping this little girl up.

teonspaleprincess
12-27-2006, 01:00 PM
I did read it,thank you. I wish there was a clearer autopsy photo. Maybe someonoe could recognize her from that. Even if the mom was a runaway and no one knows she had a baby, someone somewhere had to have interacted with tis child. I wonder if the mom killed the baby and disappeared, if she was maybe kidnapped and killed also, or if she was in the water and was just never found.

MistyM
12-27-2006, 10:33 PM
The picture is computer generated.my goodness they did a good job.

2sisters
11-11-2007, 09:58 AM
bumping her up

2sisters
11-11-2007, 10:00 AM
I am guessing the mother was recovered and the remains lost. it does happen.

Ms Suzanne
11-11-2007, 12:42 PM
Hi
I agree with you.I thought the trucker knew a little too much too.I think the trucking community back then know something.I agree,very strange story.

suzanne

Richard
11-11-2007, 07:21 PM
This December will mark the 25 year anniversary of this case.

diamondgirl
11-12-2007, 06:16 PM
Why is it that no one asked what color the mother's hair was? They saw her walking on the street and some people offered to help her, but no one noticed whether she at least had dark or light hair. Might have helped.

teonspaleprincess
11-12-2007, 08:15 PM
This little girl haunts me. I posted about her in the unidentified a few months ago. I hope that she can eventually be identified.

2sisters
11-13-2007, 02:56 PM
This December will mark the 25 year anniversary of this case.
Sad, this girl should be a grown almost 27 year old woman today.

2sisters
12-07-2007, 09:37 PM
Anniversary article includes memorial info for tomorrow.
http://www.picayuneitem.com/local/local_story_341150430.html

2sisters
12-07-2007, 09:38 PM
anniversary article with memorial info for her.
http://www.picayuneitem.com/local/local_story_341150430.html

2sisters
12-07-2007, 10:02 PM
Anyone know anything about the other baby mentioned in the article?
Here is a link to a website I found for her.
http://justicefordeltadawn.1colony.com/index.html

2sisters
12-08-2007, 05:58 PM
another story on her with video
http://www.wlox.com/global/story.asp?s=7467928

2sisters
12-10-2007, 12:01 PM
Just wanted to post a story about the memorial from yesterday.
http://www.gulflive.com/news/mississippipress/index.ssf?/base/news/1197199083132970.xml

Richard
12-15-2007, 11:13 AM
25 years have passed and this baby is still unidentified. Here is an updated Doenetwork link where you can see her picture:

http://doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html

anthrobones
06-03-2008, 04:17 PM
Bumping up

Patience
09-21-2008, 07:23 PM
The people who threw this baby over the bridge should be held accountable for their actions.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html

The Doe Network:
Case File 45UFMS

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/45UFMS.jpg http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/45UFMS2.jpg http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/45UFMS1.jpg
Sketches of Victim; Right sketch by Wes Neville
Unidentified White Female

Located on December 5, 1982 in Escatawpa, Jackson County, Mississippi.
Estimated Date of Death: 36 and 48 hours before her body was found.
Cause of death was homicide


Vital Statistics


Estimated age: 18 months to 2 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 2'6" - 76 cm; 20 - 25 lbs - 11 kg.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Strawberry blonde hair; either brown or blue eyes, due to the cloudiness of the eyes.
Dentals: 12 baby teeth had grown in at the time of her death.
Clothing: The victim was discovered wearing a Cradle Togs' pink and white dress which buttoned in the back and a disposable diaper. Some reports say that she was wearing a red and white checkered dress (or shirt).

If you have any information concerning this child's identity or the circumstances surrounding her homicide, please contact:
Jackson County Sheriff's Department
Capt. Mick Sears
228-769-3063

Agency Case Number:
82-21094 NCMEC #: NCMU400053
All information may be submitted on an anonymous basis.

Noexcuse
10-25-2008, 05:08 PM
I wonder if they could exhume her body and collect mitochondrial and ancestral DNA samples to help determine her identity.

Shecky
10-29-2008, 12:45 AM
From the doenetwork page:

Authorities speculate the woman may have thrown the child into the water and then jumped. The baby still had a breath of life because she had sucked in some of the murky water into her lungs.
It is unclear if the body of the woman was recovered.

How can it be "unclear" if the body of the woman was recovered? Even if the body floated really far downstream, I'm sure investigators at the time would keep an ear out for reports of any IUD females being found remotely close to that location.

Perhaps it is just the way the report on doenetwork has worded it, but I find that statement odd and confusing.

That said, the question remains obvious. What did happen to the body of the adult someone reported seeing? I find it very hard to believe that someone could mistake the body of a little toddler for that of an adult, even from a distance. This case is very puzzling.

Laura_Bean
11-27-2008, 12:49 AM
Katrice Lee Majors could be a potential match. Look her up on the Doe Network. Both children look incredibly similar, same forehead, cheeks, smile, teeth, eyes, (the puffy sort of rounded thing under their eyes), both had curly hair... Wondering if someone dyed the Jane Doe's hair blond, because the other little girl had dark brown. But other than that, they look strikingly similar, the photo of Katrice and the composites of our Jane Doe. I wish I knew had to post a photo, but I do not, so I can just tell all interested in this case to look Katrice Lee up on the doe network. Let me know what you all think.

Laura_Bean
11-27-2008, 12:50 AM
Oh same age and same year that the one went missing. The one girl went missing in Nov and the body was found in Dec of the same year.

Laura_Bean
11-27-2008, 05:27 PM
Oops sorry meant dec of the next year oops But still around the same age and the pics of the girl and the drawing are amazingly similar Eerie

rpipergirl
12-16-2008, 07:41 PM
http://justicefordeltadawn.1colony.com/index.html
Here is a website dedicated to this beautiful child. She is knicknamed "Delta Dawn"

rpipergirl
12-28-2008, 05:34 PM
http://justicefordeltadawn.1colony.com/index.html

I was sent this by the lady (Lynn) who is helping me with the Danny Barter case. It is her site for "Delta Dawn" as she calls her.

Laura_Bean
01-07-2009, 01:15 PM
Are these the same child? I believe they are. If they are, than our body of the little girl is really the body of a child that went missing from Germany about one year before the body was found. Katrice was just turning two that day she went missing. A little less than 1 yr later, a body, the body of this girl was found in a river in Mississippi after a truck driver called it in.

Laura_Bean
01-08-2009, 06:05 PM
Bumping up and want to know if you guys see the resemblance that I see

Is this girl Katrice Lee Major?

MadeaBecBec
01-11-2009, 03:43 PM
Laura Bean; Yes I see the striking resemblance of these two children. But, I'm wondering how would Katrice Major have gotten to Mississippi from Germany???
Could the kidnapper have been military? Did the parents notify LE immediately?
Wouldn't there have been a "lookout" for someone leaving the area with a child, by plane?
I realize that in 1981, they may not have had to have a passport for the child, but still, it wouldn't be that easy, even then, to have whisked her away to the USA.
I also know that in 1981, every parent was more informed about kidnapping, than earlier years, media was more likely to follow these types of things. I certainly was, my daughter was born in 1981, so I prepared kits for both my children, then updated them every year.
Has anyone contacted Interpol, about this Baby Doe? I'm willing to help, in anyway, just let me know what you would need me to do.

MadeaBecBec
06-08-2009, 12:07 PM
Just wanted to let you all know, I have sent this in to all agencys involved as a possible match to Megan Ginevicz, her case is here : http://doj.mt.gov/enforcement/missingpersons/searchdetail.aspx?RecordKey=4574
They are so similar in looks, to me, that I actually cried for Megan (already cried about Delta Dawn) and am praying for her family! This case is a heart breaker for sure and one that has had me waking up in the middle of the night looking for possibles! Megan would have been 46 months old(actually one week shy of 47 months) when this happened and I considered the possibilty of it not being her because of that, thinking an almost 4 year old would have more than 12 teeth, however, I went back and looked at my journal for my Grands and I had counted one of my grandbabys teeth at that age and they had 14 at that age (Pediatrician says sometimes they are late getting their jaw teeth in) so I started searching for the years preceeding the death of Delta Dawn..... *sigh*
The latest article I read about this child is here: http://www.nbc15online.com/news/custom/special%20reports/story/The-Mystery-of-Baby-Jane-Doe/yHj9NtD2DEud_SVIIT6BDw.cspx (video here, too) The detectives were trying to find the trucker that spotted this baby in the river to re-interview him! I haven't found anything more about whether they did or didn't locate him, the story was written in Feb. 2008!
I will post here when I know something more!!
Here's the side by side photo;

pearly
06-11-2009, 12:13 AM
It looks likes a good match MBB! Very sad case though

phylliyum
09-03-2009, 06:35 PM
possible matches:

http://charleyproject.org/cases/g/ginevicz_megan.html
about 2 years older than this little one, but the resemblance is striking.

that's the only possible match i found on charley project....

I agree with the runaway theory, although, sadly, it means this little one will probably never be identified.

I also wonder if this is another Jaycee Dugard situation - mom had been abducted, and held captive, had a baby by her rapist, and decided to take the little girl and run.

i really wish we knew more about the mother though...that's the real key to figuring out who she is.

Kat
09-08-2009, 04:40 PM
http://www.gulflive.com/news/mississippipress/news.ssf?/base/news/1252318523106410.xml&coll=5

Monday, September 07, 2009

Can DNA advances solve cold case?


...Advances in DNA technology could prove the strongest chance for investigators to determine the identity of Baby Jane, an unknown infant girl found dead in Dog River 27 years ago...

... Jackson County Sheriff's investigator Hope Thornton said the body of the child was exhumed in November 2008 to obtain DNA samples, ...

..."In March 2008, I was contacted by a California coroner," Thornton said. "The family of a young girl who disappeared about the same time saw the digital composite of Delta and wants to know if she could actually be theirs."

Allegedly, the boyfriend of the girl's mother stated he kidnapped the child and killed her but has never told authorities where the child's remains were hidden, Thornton said...

...But investigators have also not ruled out a truck driver as a prime suspect in the child's demise.

Ted Hammond of Florida reported seeing a dead body in the Escatawpa River as he drove over an Interstate 10 bridge...


Two page article. Interesting comments about suspect made by current investigator of this crime.

Kat
09-08-2009, 05:29 PM
From the doenetwork page:

Authorities speculate the woman may have thrown the child into the water and then jumped. The baby still had a breath of life because she had sucked in some of the murky water into her lungs.
It is unclear if the body of the woman was recovered.

How can it be "unclear" if the body of the woman was recovered? Even if the body floated really far downstream, I'm sure investigators at the time would keep an ear out for reports of any IUD females being found remotely close to that location.

Perhaps it is just the way the report on doenetwork has worded it, but I find that statement odd and confusing.

That said, the question remains obvious. What did happen to the body of the adult someone reported seeing? I find it very hard to believe that someone could mistake the body of a little toddler for that of an adult, even from a distance. This case is very puzzling.

I do not have the answer to Shecky's question but would like to add that after having read many of the articles about this young girl.

I am under the impression that a woman and child were reported to have been seen walking by truckers and that woman refused help from the truckers.

There was one trucker how called in to report he saw an adult female body floating in the river. When the LE went to investigate that is when they found Delta Dawn.

LE has some questions about the trucker that called the body in.

I'm not sure there was an adult female body.

Laura_Bean
09-16-2009, 12:10 PM
I contacted Katrice's family. They do not believe it is her. I am surprised they would just say no to the possibility, and so quickly too. The reasons they gave seemed vague and almost as though they just want to believe she is alive and won't believe she was killed soon after being taken. I was thinking a few possibilities of what could have happened.

1. Back than it was easy to get a fake passport. Also, the passport if the parent was an American would only have been checked while leaving Germany, but at that time would not have been checked on the way into America if the man and/or woman coming home with the child was an American. I know this because I spoke with a flight attendant who has been working with the airline for many many years.

2. No one she told me, would have questioned a father or mother and what appeared to be his or her child. As long as Katrice did not put up a struggle and seemed happy and okay with the people she was with no one would have questioned them.

3. If Katrice had become ill, her new parents may have been too afraid to take her to the hospital for treatment. Had she been dying, or if the parents believed she were dead, it may have sparked a suicide and the reason why the woman seen with the child would not accept help and threw herself with the child off of the bridge.

4. If someone became supicious, and asked the parents where they got this child, it may have sparked the same scenario above.

5. Katrice's own family believes she was taken by someone from another country, and most likely someone in the military. The reasons the family states this are that the child was taken from a military grocery store. The only people allowed in and out are military with ID's. I don't think these ID's were fake, I think whoever took her was either in the military OR worked at the grocery store. Which by the way, were usually military anyway, who worked as a side job at the stores. So therefore, more than likely a military person.

6. Lots of US men were stationed in Germany during this time. My own father was one of them.

I think it is very possible that a US soldier saw little Katrice and took her home with him. Why? I don't know. Still working on that one. His wife could have had a miscarriage, they could have had a child die, maybe they couldn't have children at all for one reason or another, perhaps Katrice was just so cute he couldn't help himself... I don't think it was a child molestor if Katrice did end up in the states, I just don't see anyone going through that much trouble... The fake passport that would be needed... Etc... A woman jumping off the bridge with the child, not a man.... Anyways.... What do you all think? The picture of Katrice and the other little girl look sooooooo much alike, I can't just write it off. Maybe I am wrong. But I think a DNA test would give us a much, much, clearer picture. And if I was wrong we could go on from there.

kgeaux
09-16-2009, 05:02 PM
http://www.gulflive.com/news/mississippipress/news.ssf?/base/news/1252318523106410.xml&coll=5

Monday, September 07, 2009

Can DNA advances solve cold case?




Two page article. Interesting comments about suspect made by current investigator of this crime.

Good article. I wonder how the truck driver's story has changed so much? Since the woman and the child were seen by other drivers, it can't be that he kidnapped the little girl and threw her over the railing into the river, can it?

Cymro
09-17-2009, 03:43 AM
I do see a resemblance with Katrice but she'd been missing for over a year when the UID was found, meaning that she'd have been 3 - I know it's only a year's difference but it puts her at 150-200% of the estimated age range.

I don't know if the base was a NATO or British Army base - and as stated, children didn't need passports then - but it's not immediately obvious how she'd have been taken to America (which doesn't mean it didn't happen). I still think Katrice is probably too old though.

teonspaleprincess
09-17-2009, 10:54 AM
I agree Cymo, even though it is only a year, kids get a lot of teeth between 18 months and 3 years old, so they should be able to get really close to here age.

mtrooper
11-20-2009, 12:16 PM
Has anyone else seen the morgue photo of this little girl? It is in black and white and not very clear

********WARNING MORGUE PHOTOS at this link************

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=1963

teonspaleprincess
04-23-2010, 08:54 PM
Was there ever any news on this case?

Stephani
06-18-2010, 03:03 PM
I'm not sure if a thread has already been started for "Baby Jane". If so, please remove my thread. I came across this story while doing a little research on Pascagoula, MS for work. There are tons of articles on "Baby Jane" if you do an internet search for them for all of the details. Just wondered if anyone had any interest in helping me find out who she may be...I have attached a link to an article commemorating the 25 anniversary of her being found in the river and to Pascagoula's wikipedia listing which mentions her story briefly.

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=473
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascagoula,_MS

Stephani
06-18-2010, 03:05 PM
And, my first attempt at starting a thread that was meant to be in the UID section, ends up in the missing section. Oops! LOL! Can someone move it for me if a thread is not already active for her? Sorry!

Snackcakes66
06-18-2010, 08:08 PM
Hi, I think this sweetheart has a thread here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26761&highlight=Pascagoula

Salem
06-19-2010, 12:10 AM
Try this link - hopefully it will work: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html

Salem

Kat
06-19-2010, 01:10 AM
I have a few questions for any member that has followed this case closely please?

1. Delta Dawn is reported to have been found in the dog river in Pascagoula, MS. (missing children websites) However, I have seen old newspaper articles that report that she was found in the dog river in Escatawpa MS.

2. Do we have a member here that knows exactly the spot in 1982 from the descriptions where this might have been along I-110 and does anyone know where some actual shots of the river and bridge might be? If not, anyone local willing to go take a few? :)

3. I saw this post on another forum that I stumbled across looking for info on Delta Dawn, does anyone know any more details about this confession?
Cold Case Investigations - View Single Post - BABY JANE, Mississippi, 1982

4. Not a question but a search suggestion the current investigator of this case doesn't call Delta Dawn/Baby Doe by that name he calls her Baby Jane.

Kat
06-19-2010, 01:51 AM
One more thing I wanted to post.

In this article (it may be already posted backthread)

http://www.local15tv.com/news/custom/special%20reports/story/The-Mystery-of-Baby-Jane-Doe/yHj9NtD2DEud_SVIIT6BDw.cspx

Last Update: 2/19/2008 11:02 pm

snipped:
...Now, 25 years later, the focus is on the truck driver who called saying he saw the baby's body. Among the many questions is, why did the truck driver wait until he was miles away to make the call.

Detectives say they are getting closer to tracking down that truck driver, but they realize it could be just another dead end. According to Captain Sears, "We just want to try and go over his statement that he made back then, that was, which of course back then was not a very good statement."...


Scanned copies of old articles can actually be viewed here (I have not tried google archives)

http://icaremissingpersonscoldcases.yuku.com/topic/903

For those that are willing to try and track down that truck driver (if LE has not already been able to do so) and forward the contact info to LE (a lot of talented sleuths can do this by simple deep searches) I believe he is named by first and last names within those articles. (pretty darn sure :))

I will do it if no one else has in about a month or so, I have very little free time at this moment. Good luck sleuthing, and let us know if you send forward any info to LE (not the info just that you sent it forward :))

Cubby
06-19-2010, 04:26 PM
Just an FYI. OT- but relevent.

If you happen to see an old doenetwork link with a .us those are old links.
All you have to do to get the correct link is change the .us to .org and the link will work again.

At some point ages ago, doenetwork changed from .us to .org but the links remain the same other than the change needed from .us to .org

hth

Cubby
mod

high voltage
06-20-2010, 12:38 AM
One more thing I wanted to post.

In this article (it may be already posted backthread)

http://www.local15tv.com/news/custom/special%20reports/story/The-Mystery-of-Baby-Jane-Doe/yHj9NtD2DEud_SVIIT6BDw.cspx

Last Update: 2/19/2008 11:02 pm

snipped:


Scanned copies of old articles can actually be viewed here (I have not tried google archives)

http://icaremissingpersonscoldcases.yuku.com/topic/903

For those that are willing to try and track down that truck driver (if LE has not already been able to do so) and forward the contact info to LE (a lot of talented sleuths can do this by simple deep searches) I believe he is named by first and last names within those articles. (pretty darn sure :))

I will do it if no one else has in about a month or so, I have very little free time at this moment. Good luck sleuthing, and let us know if you send forward any info to LE (not the info just that you sent it forward :))

According to the first article at that link, trucker's name is Ted Hammond of Ocoee, Fla.

Kat
06-20-2010, 02:30 AM
According to the first article at that link, trucker's name is T. Hammond of Ocoee, Fla.

Thank you high voltage. Just to let you know in case you didn't we aren't allowed to post first and last names of people that aren't named POI's and I'm not sure but I think they like us to use initials. So I made your post into a first initial when I quoted it. :)

No sweat, if someone complains a mod will come by and edit it for you :)

laini
06-25-2010, 01:37 AM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2918dfca.html Just looking around doenetwork and found this.
Could this be her? Brandi Lee Krajewski disappeared Oct. 7, 1982 from California. Baby Jane was found December 5, 1982. Any thoughts?

nanny2five
08-01-2010, 05:16 AM
bumping for this baby

Stephani
08-02-2010, 09:09 AM
laini-I like your match, a lot of it seems to add up for our Baby Jane...although I wonder if the ME would've noted a scar on Baby Jane's face...

nola
01-03-2011, 09:09 AM
Brandi Lee Krajewski seems like a pretty good match. Any update on this? Since Baby Jane was in the water for up to 48 hours the scar (if faint) may not have been as visible with exposure to the elements.

Has there ever been a description given of the female adult (mom) seen carrying this child along the interstate highway bridge the Friday night prior to this baby being found in the water? I have searched without success -- although I have seen articles written indicating that both the mom and child were seen by numerous truck drivers- as well as seen at an Alabama truck stop the day previous to the highway incident. A description of the mom might help in this case!!!

nola
01-19-2011, 10:54 PM
Wanted to update the thread to share that the Jackson County, Mississippi Detective who reopened Baby Jane's case has recently received a grant that will help her in the effort to attempt to obtain a DNA profile for this precious baby. Keep your collective fingers crossed that the University of Texas is successful and quick in this important task.

Deeds
05-17-2011, 09:56 AM
In 1988, a man confessed to killing or being present at as many as 30 people. This man claims to have been part of the Outlaws Motorcycle Gang which travelled all over the USA in the 1980s. When he gave descriptions of some of the killings, he described this one:

*Shooting a female to death and throwing her young child into a river.

I wonder if it is possible that Jane Doe, Pascagoula is the child of thom he was speaking about. Could it be that a teenager had been pregnant, runaway from home and had the baby? Therefore accounting for no one claiming this child after the mother was gone. Maybe along the Interstate 10 bridge, Mother and child had a run-in with the Outlaws who were known to ride along Interstate 10

This is an sampling of some of Lovie Riddles notes.

This is from the Lewiston Daily Sun Saturday morning Sept 10th 1988.

Alabama man claims that he has killed as many as 30 people.

Riddle stated to Detective Peter Herring that he had killed as many as 30 people over the past 13 years.On Aug 24th he recounted to Herring details of numerous homicides and as many as 35 kidnappings in several states and Canada. On Sept 9th he told reporters the material was for a novel he planned to write.

Described as a transient who worked as a cook at inns in Boothbay Harbor and Jackson, NH.

An affidavit filed with the Bridgton District Court complaint states Riddle offered a ride to a woman walking along rt 302 in Fryeburg Aug 13th ('88)and then pulled off on a dirt road and forced her to commit oral sex.

Riddle told Herring in a 2 and a half hr interview of "participating in and being present at numerous homicides" as a member of the Outlaws motorcycle gang.

The document said Riddle did not want his attorney present during the interview because he wanted to get help and not get out of jail. “If it takes 50 or 100 years, get me off the street. Keep me in there till I die, if it will help...”

Herring read from the notebooks. In part, “In the last 13 years I've allowed this force at least 30 times. The same force that drove me to kill in '83 is driving me again"

"The defendant told of kidnapping children in the US and Canada" the affidavit said. “He indicated that he participated (in more than) 35 kidnappings." Among the events described, the document said.

* kidnapping a 4 yr old from Tenn. and delivering him to Quebec.

*Kidnapping a girl named Nicolo aged 8 or 9 from Canada in '86 and transporting her to Texas where he believes she was killed.

*Killing of a male, mutilating his body and dumping it along interstate 10 in Beaumont.

*Shooting a female to death and throwing her young child into a river.

*Being present when a 17 yr old girl was beaten to death with a hammer in Tenn.

*Killing a female in Cape Cod by beating her with a soda bottle and leaving her body under an overpass.

* Beating a female in CT near Hartford.

* Killing two game wardens in 79 and burying their bodies in a field.

nola
05-19-2011, 11:41 PM
Hello Deeds,
When I read your post on the other thread I immediately thought of the Dog River. Here is a link to the newspaper report where Riddle made these statements. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ZDgpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=D2UFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2231,1945111 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?
id=ZDgpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=D2UFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2231,1945111)

Riddle kept a notebook (found in his car) detailing crimes but stated that the notes were for a novel he was writing.

Deeds
05-20-2011, 02:26 PM
Hi Nola,

Unfortunately, your link would not work... but I have read the article before. The more I look into the diary samples from the article, the more unsolved cases I find that match his descriptions of the murders.

I think like most killers, they like to think they're smarter then everyone else and with that I believe he changed some details of the crimes to mislead.

Another reason why I think there is a good possibility that the diary is real is the way that Riddle provokes within his quotes. It’s very much like other serial killers in the way that they taunted police to catch them.

The details of the murders he does describes (i.e.: cause of death etc.) comes very close to many unsolved murders within the timeline within the 13 year period, 1975 - 1988.

Not to mention that a lot of the murders happen along the interstate, the riding ground for many motorcycle gangs, most heavily within that time period the Outlaws motorcycle gang.

In addition, if he was a member of the Outlaws, they have a ‘no talk’ rule and a don’t sell out your brothers, therefore I believe the "novel" justification was rouse.

This is just my theory, my only concern is that Riddle is getting up there in age. I just don’t want what he has done to die with him.

Only because if he has been present or committed up to 30 murders, the 30 victim’s families should have a right to know what happen to there loved ones and be able to give them a loving proper burial. Also the 30 victims deserve justice!

nola
05-20-2011, 06:45 PM
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=910&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D26761%26page%3D3&v=1&libid=1305930457256&out=http%3A%2F%2Fofficialcoldcaseinvestigations.co m%2Fshowpost.php%3Fp%3D54304%26postcount%3D256&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D26761%26page%3D2&title=MS%20MS%20-%20Child%20Jane%20Doe%2C%20Pascagoula%20-%20Dec.%201982%20*merged*%20-%20Page%203%20-%20Websleuths%20Crime%20Sleuthing%20Community&txt=Cold%20Case%20Investigations%20-%20View%20Single%20Post%20-%20%20BABY%20JANE%2C%20Mississippi%2C%201982


Sorry 'bout the first link...this link to the Riddle article was posted earlier on this thread. Hopefully this will work.

Sleuthster
06-06-2011, 06:08 PM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2918dfca.html Just looking around doenetwork and found this.
Could this be her? Brandi Lee Krajewski disappeared Oct. 7, 1982 from California. Baby Jane was found December 5, 1982. Any thoughts?


Was this ever submitted?? She looks like one of the artists drawings on doenetwork IMO! Its a possibility. I would be suprised if this was not looked at before, amazed actually.

nola
06-08-2011, 07:08 PM
Was this ever submitted?? She looks like one of the artists drawings on doenetwork IMO! Its a possibility. I would be suprised if this was not looked at before, amazed actually.

I sent an e-mail to the MS detective assigned to Baby Jane's case today about Brandi Krajewski as a possible match. I haven't heard back from this detective in a while about the status of Baby Jane's DNA profile. The detective had received a grant to exhume the body and retrieve DNA samples for profiling earlier this year. The last that I heard the samples had been send to Texas for this purpose.

nola
06-10-2011, 12:12 AM
I received a message from the case detective today stating that DNA is being checked to see if the child is Brandi Lee Krajewski.

Deeds
08-10-2011, 04:40 PM
any news on the DNA????

DaisyBill
08-10-2011, 07:24 PM
I have a few questions for any member that has followed this case closely please?

1. Delta Dawn is reported to have been found in the dog river in Pascagoula, MS. (missing children websites) However, I have seen old newspaper articles that report that she was found in the dog river in Escatawpa MS.

2. Do we have a member here that knows exactly the spot in 1982 from the descriptions where this might have been along I-110 and does anyone know where some actual shots of the river and bridge might be? If not, anyone local willing to go take a few? :)

3. I saw this post on another forum that I stumbled across looking for info on Delta Dawn, does anyone know any more details about this confession?
Cold Case Investigations - View Single Post - BABY JANE, Mississippi, 1982 (http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showpost.php?p=54304&postcount=256)

4. Not a question but a search suggestion the current investigator of this case doesn't call Delta Dawn/Baby Doe by that name he calls her Baby Jane.


I was living in this area in 1982 (1981-1986) and have been racking my brain to remember this case but can't. However, I wanted to say a little something on the Escatawpa vs Pascagoula mentioned in your #1. There are alot of little bitty towns in the area. Escatawpa was one..not much there but some houses, at the time. We had a friend whose address was Pascagoula but he actually lived in Moss Point. Unincorporated towns took the address of much larger towns in the area. (when we lived in CO we lived in an unincorporated area called Fruitvale but our address was Grand Junction...we lived in the county not the city and paid different taxes because of it).

So it is possible that this was the case and people are referring to the larger town of Pascagoula. Also, I think more people have heard of Pascagoula (shipyards) vs Escatawpa and use it for a better reference for the area.

nola
08-11-2011, 09:05 PM
any news on the DNA????

No news from Hope Thornton (detective) yet on any DNA update from UT. I sent her an e-mail today and will update the thread with her reply.

I have asked to speak with Hope in person to review this case and get more details about the woman seen walking I-10 in the nights before Baby Jane was found. I want to get a better description of this likely mom and more information about where she was seen in the day's just prior. In addition I want to find out if there is any evidence to connect Riddle to this case.

If she says yes to my request for a personal meeting, do you guys have other leads or questions that you would like me to inquire about? If so, send me a private message or post them here.

Thanks to all of you for keeping this case and thread active!

Patience
12-11-2011, 09:41 PM
Any updates on this case?

Lovely
12-20-2011, 12:18 PM
I am also wondering, is there an update on the case of this little girl?

nola
12-23-2011, 11:54 AM
I have not heard back from the detective. I will give her a call next week to see if there is any update from the DNA testing.

Staperk
02-07-2012, 11:16 PM
I just wanted to bump for this little girl. I was hoping that perhaps someone had heard something about doing DNA testing.

SemmesMom
07-01-2012, 02:26 AM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2918dfca.html Just looking around doenetwork and found this.
Could this be her? Brandi Lee Krajewski disappeared Oct. 7, 1982 from California. Baby Jane was found December 5, 1982. Any thoughts?

Laini,
I know it's been awhile since you made this post, but I wonder if it was ever called in. I pass by this area where Baby Jane was found about once a month. Since I found out about her, I think about her a lot and have done a lot of searching, hoping to find out who she may be. I came across Brandi a few weeks ago and keep going back and comparing them because they do favor so much, IMHO.

SemmesMom
07-01-2012, 02:43 AM
Guess I spoke too soon. I see now that there was DNA testing to compare to Brandi.