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View Full Version : MS MS - Pascagoula, WhtFem Child 45UFMS, 1-3, Tossed From Bridge Into Dog River, Dec'82



coco
07-24-2005, 06:30 AM
It's coming up for 23 years since this little one was found in the Dog River, apparently tossed of a bridge. This little girl was only approx 2 yrs old ,a baby.
Please read up at the following link-
http://doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html

mysteriew
07-24-2005, 11:52 PM
I don't like those sketches. The sketch on the left looks nothing like the one on the right. There is a photo in the middle, I wonder where they got that? The sketch on the right more closely resembles the photo than the sketch on the left, IMO. It is a shame they haven't been unable to identify her. In the 22 years since she has been found, you would think that some relative would report that she hadn't been seen. She was a cute lil darlin'.

lisag
07-25-2005, 09:39 AM
I was under the impression that the "photo" in the middle, was actually a sketch also....
It's sad that this child has gone unidentified for this many years ! Someone has to miss her !!

Jenn
07-25-2005, 11:24 AM
OMG what a cute little girl! :mad: I can not believe that her parents aren't looking for her!! It makes you wonder if they were involved.

Jenn
07-25-2005, 11:28 AM
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=400053&orgPrefix=NCMU&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US

kahskye
07-25-2005, 01:26 PM
My gosh! How do you just toss a child out the window like she was garbage? That's a shame this case is unsolved and that no one ever came forward to claim this precious baby. It makes me wonder if the mother might not have been murdered too or maybe she's the murderer. I just can't believe no one else ever reported her missing. It's like no one even knew she existed.

mmohucap
07-25-2005, 06:58 PM
I was under the impression that the "photo" in the middle, was actually a sketch also....
it is. You can definitely tell if you look at the full-size version:

http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMU400053c1.jpg

Sunshinelady
07-26-2005, 03:41 PM
Visit the forum below to read newspaper articles about this case.



http://p208.ezboard.com/ficaremissingpersonscoldcasesfrm13.showMessage?top icID=10.topic

2sisters
07-26-2005, 08:20 PM
She could be from anywhere considering where she was found. The area is an easy, possibly, short drive from the New Orleans area, Mobile, Florida, or any part of MS.

KatherineQ
07-26-2005, 09:26 PM
It seems strange that the baby was wearing something completely different from what she was reportedly seen wearing.

Is it possible that they were hit, in the dark, and the person just drove off? It seems like they could have accidentally, even unknowingly, been knocked off the bridge.

If both mom and baby are missing all this time, that's more believable that no one really knows what happened, than if just the baby went missing. If this mom was a transient type her family may not even know she had a baby.

Sure is a sad story, and a sad way to go, so anonymously.

Richard
11-25-2005, 09:43 AM
Baby Girl, 2, located 5 Dec 1982, MS

Unidentified White Female
Located on December 5, 1982 in Escatawpa, Jackson County, Mississippi.
Cause of death was homicide

Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 2 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 2'6" - 76 cm; 20 - 25 lbs - 11 kg.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Strawberry blonde hair; either brown or blue eyes, due to the cloudiness of the eyes.
Dentals: 12 baby teeth had grown in at the time of her death.
Clothing: The victim was discovered wearing a Cradle Togs' pink and white dress which buttoned in the back and a disposable diaper.

Case History
The victim was located in the Dog River, beneath the westbound lane of I-10 in Pascagoula, MS, on December 5, 1982. She was apparently thrown off the Interstate 10 bridge 36 - 48 hours prior to discovery.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this child's identity or the circumstances surrounding her homicide, please contact: Jackson County Sheriff's Department Capt. Mick Sears 228-769-3063

Agency Case Number: 82-21094

Source Information:

National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
doenetwork.org

Link:
http://www.doenetwork.org/

docwho3
11-25-2005, 10:01 AM
Here is a link to the page about the girl.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html

2sisters
11-25-2005, 11:17 AM
If I remember right, someone had posted about this little girl before and they had old articles to go with the story. I tried to search for the thread but can't find it. Do the threads get deleted after so long?

mysteriew
11-25-2005, 01:52 PM
If I remember right, someone had posted about this little girl before and they had old articles to go with the story. I tried to search for the thread but can't find it. Do the threads get deleted after so long?

I don't think so. It is usually a matter of finding the right keywords.

mysteriew
11-25-2005, 01:57 PM
I think this might be the case:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26761&highlight=Dog+River

Mr. E
11-25-2005, 03:55 PM
Okay, so the truck driver (in the linked newspaper articles) says he spotted a body in the river of an adult wearing a blue plaid shirt and blue jeans. The police discover the body of a baby 10 miles away wearing red plaid. They search and search for the adult body, who they assume is the baby's mother, and they never find her.

Where did she go?

Somebody suggested the mother and child were hit by a car, but I still don't understand why the bodies would be so separated. And I can't figure out why they would search extensively for the body the trucker said he saw, but never find it.

I wonder if the child's mother was a runaway who maybe was pregnant when she ran away, and that is why nobody is looking for the child. They don't know she existed.

LButler
11-26-2005, 11:38 AM
That trucker knew an awful lot about a submerged body under a bridge he was crossing - right down to the shirt and the pants it was wearing. How can you cross a bridge, spot a body possibly caught on a piling, slow down, focus in, plainly see it and an ice chest from a semi? And, then, BAM, the body disappears? That sounds like a really strange story.

Also, wonder how hard they worked on finding that pick-up truck she refused to get into? Maybe she was running from someone and that someone was in that truck.

2sisters
10-16-2006, 12:11 PM
bumping for this little girl

LButler
10-16-2006, 04:16 PM
I've looked at this before and always assumed the woman's body was recovered as well. Appears not to be so.

Ms Suzanne
10-17-2006, 07:56 PM
I've looked at this before and always assumed the woman's body was recovered as well. Appears not to be so.hi

I feel the answers will be in the trucking community.I feel they were both abducted.I believe the trucker witnessed a womans body further down.I feel they dragged the river in the wrong place.


The newspaper article said Hammond told him he saw the body 1,000 feet west of "steel grates"on the big bridge between the spands.
gussberry said he assumed this to mean 1,000 feet west of the east Pascagoula River and dragging operations would be concentrated in that area.
If the body reported by Hammond is the mother of the baby,how did they get seperated by 10 miles or more.

suzanne

teonspaleprincess
12-24-2006, 03:53 PM
I don't know if this has been posted before and I am not sure how to link the actual page if someone wants to help me out.
The little girl was about 2yrs old was found floating in the river along with a woman who was presumed to be the mother, although neither have been identified and law enforcement will not perform DNA test to determine it one way or the other. To me, this case seems solvable.

HollywoodBound
12-24-2006, 04:03 PM
Here is a link to the case on Doenetwork:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/45ufms.html
Looks like the mother is possibly dead which could be why the child is not reported as missing.

teonspaleprincess
12-25-2006, 07:08 PM
It is hard to believe that someone has not reported that a mother and child went missing. They have to be missed by someone!! I remember another case on the doe network where a woman's torso was foud in only her nightgown and a child was found a few days later. I can't find it now, I am hoping that maybe it was solved.

cwiz24
12-26-2006, 12:31 PM
Here is a link to the case on Doenetwork:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/45ufms.html
Looks like the mother is possibly dead which could be why the child is not reported as missing.

All three of the pictures included with this unidentified file look different to me.

MistyM
12-26-2006, 09:20 PM
where did they get the middle picture from? the woman's wallet? i dont understand why they have the two sketches (that do look totally different) then a picture.

teonspaleprincess
12-26-2006, 10:28 PM
The picture is computer generated.

ihadcabinfever
12-27-2006, 02:32 AM
That baby is adorable. So sad.
Does anyone remember the case where the grandmother took off with the baby and they thought she threw her in the water ? I think she was questioned .
I think the grandmother was questioned because they said she had kidnapped the baby and they couldn't find the baby and said the grandmother was sciztophrenic. I just don't remember when it was . I'll have to read through doenetwork.

teonspaleprincess
12-27-2006, 10:51 AM
Acacia Patience Bishop

http://www.childsearch.org/acacia_bishop.html

I followed this case religiously...and prayed so hard they would find her. I am not convinced the grandmother actually killed her. I think she may have stashed her with someone in the hope of getting her later.

2sisters
12-27-2006, 11:01 AM
there is an interesting thread in the cold case section about the Escatawpa ,MS jane doe.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32669&highlight=escatawpa

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26761&highlight=Dog+River

teonspaleprincess
12-27-2006, 11:10 AM
Thank you. I did not know there was already a thread on this angel. I don't know why I thought the mother had been found. I must be mixing up that case with the other that was on the doe network about a mother and baby being found in the water.

2sisters
12-27-2006, 01:36 PM
Thank you. I did not know there was already a thread on this angel. I don't know why I thought the mother had been found. I must be mixing up that case with the other that was on the doe network about a mother and baby being found in the water.It is a strange case. What harm does a baby do? Why throw a baby away like that? The second link I posted has new articles if you are interested.

2sisters
12-27-2006, 01:39 PM
Bumping this little girl up.

teonspaleprincess
12-27-2006, 02:00 PM
I did read it,thank you. I wish there was a clearer autopsy photo. Maybe someonoe could recognize her from that. Even if the mom was a runaway and no one knows she had a baby, someone somewhere had to have interacted with tis child. I wonder if the mom killed the baby and disappeared, if she was maybe kidnapped and killed also, or if she was in the water and was just never found.

MistyM
12-27-2006, 11:33 PM
The picture is computer generated.my goodness they did a good job.

2sisters
11-11-2007, 10:58 AM
bumping her up

2sisters
11-11-2007, 11:00 AM
I am guessing the mother was recovered and the remains lost. it does happen.

Ms Suzanne
11-11-2007, 01:42 PM
Hi
I agree with you.I thought the trucker knew a little too much too.I think the trucking community back then know something.I agree,very strange story.

suzanne

Richard
11-11-2007, 08:21 PM
This December will mark the 25 year anniversary of this case.

diamondgirl
11-12-2007, 07:16 PM
Why is it that no one asked what color the mother's hair was? They saw her walking on the street and some people offered to help her, but no one noticed whether she at least had dark or light hair. Might have helped.

teonspaleprincess
11-12-2007, 09:15 PM
This little girl haunts me. I posted about her in the unidentified a few months ago. I hope that she can eventually be identified.

2sisters
11-13-2007, 03:56 PM
This December will mark the 25 year anniversary of this case.
Sad, this girl should be a grown almost 27 year old woman today.

2sisters
12-07-2007, 10:37 PM
Anniversary article includes memorial info for tomorrow.
http://www.picayuneitem.com/local/local_story_341150430.html

2sisters
12-07-2007, 10:38 PM
anniversary article with memorial info for her.
http://www.picayuneitem.com/local/local_story_341150430.html

2sisters
12-07-2007, 11:02 PM
Anyone know anything about the other baby mentioned in the article?
Here is a link to a website I found for her.
http://justicefordeltadawn.1colony.com/index.html

2sisters
12-08-2007, 06:58 PM
another story on her with video
http://www.wlox.com/global/story.asp?s=7467928

2sisters
12-10-2007, 01:01 PM
Just wanted to post a story about the memorial from yesterday.
http://www.gulflive.com/news/mississippipress/index.ssf?/base/news/1197199083132970.xml

Richard
12-15-2007, 12:13 PM
25 years have passed and this baby is still unidentified. Here is an updated Doenetwork link where you can see her picture:

http://doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html

anthrobones
06-03-2008, 04:17 PM
Bumping up

Patience
09-21-2008, 07:23 PM
The people who threw this baby over the bridge should be held accountable for their actions.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html

The Doe Network:
Case File 45UFMS

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/45UFMS.jpg http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/45UFMS2.jpg http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/images/45UFMS1.jpg
Sketches of Victim; Right sketch by Wes Neville
Unidentified White Female

Located on December 5, 1982 in Escatawpa, Jackson County, Mississippi.
Estimated Date of Death: 36 and 48 hours before her body was found.
Cause of death was homicide


Vital Statistics


Estimated age: 18 months to 2 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 2'6" - 76 cm; 20 - 25 lbs - 11 kg.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Strawberry blonde hair; either brown or blue eyes, due to the cloudiness of the eyes.
Dentals: 12 baby teeth had grown in at the time of her death.
Clothing: The victim was discovered wearing a Cradle Togs' pink and white dress which buttoned in the back and a disposable diaper. Some reports say that she was wearing a red and white checkered dress (or shirt).

If you have any information concerning this child's identity or the circumstances surrounding her homicide, please contact:
Jackson County Sheriff's Department
Capt. Mick Sears
228-769-3063

Agency Case Number:
82-21094 NCMEC #: NCMU400053
All information may be submitted on an anonymous basis.

Noexcuse
10-25-2008, 05:08 PM
I wonder if they could exhume her body and collect mitochondrial and ancestral DNA samples to help determine her identity.

Shecky
10-29-2008, 12:45 AM
From the doenetwork page:

Authorities speculate the woman may have thrown the child into the water and then jumped. The baby still had a breath of life because she had sucked in some of the murky water into her lungs.
It is unclear if the body of the woman was recovered.

How can it be "unclear" if the body of the woman was recovered? Even if the body floated really far downstream, I'm sure investigators at the time would keep an ear out for reports of any IUD females being found remotely close to that location.

Perhaps it is just the way the report on doenetwork has worded it, but I find that statement odd and confusing.

That said, the question remains obvious. What did happen to the body of the adult someone reported seeing? I find it very hard to believe that someone could mistake the body of a little toddler for that of an adult, even from a distance. This case is very puzzling.

Laura_Bean
11-27-2008, 01:49 AM
Katrice Lee Majors could be a potential match. Look her up on the Doe Network. Both children look incredibly similar, same forehead, cheeks, smile, teeth, eyes, (the puffy sort of rounded thing under their eyes), both had curly hair... Wondering if someone dyed the Jane Doe's hair blond, because the other little girl had dark brown. But other than that, they look strikingly similar, the photo of Katrice and the composites of our Jane Doe. I wish I knew had to post a photo, but I do not, so I can just tell all interested in this case to look Katrice Lee up on the doe network. Let me know what you all think.

Laura_Bean
11-27-2008, 01:50 AM
Oh same age and same year that the one went missing. The one girl went missing in Nov and the body was found in Dec of the same year.

Laura_Bean
11-27-2008, 06:27 PM
Oops sorry meant dec of the next year oops But still around the same age and the pics of the girl and the drawing are amazingly similar Eerie

rpipergirl
12-16-2008, 08:41 PM
http://justicefordeltadawn.1colony.com/index.html
Here is a website dedicated to this beautiful child. She is knicknamed "Delta Dawn"

rpipergirl
12-28-2008, 06:34 PM
http://justicefordeltadawn.1colony.com/index.html

I was sent this by the lady (Lynn) who is helping me with the Danny Barter case. It is her site for "Delta Dawn" as she calls her.

Laura_Bean
01-07-2009, 02:15 PM
Are these the same child? I believe they are. If they are, than our body of the little girl is really the body of a child that went missing from Germany about one year before the body was found. Katrice was just turning two that day she went missing. A little less than 1 yr later, a body, the body of this girl was found in a river in Mississippi after a truck driver called it in.

Laura_Bean
01-08-2009, 07:05 PM
Bumping up and want to know if you guys see the resemblance that I see

Is this girl Katrice Lee Major?

MadeaBecBec
01-11-2009, 04:43 PM
Laura Bean; Yes I see the striking resemblance of these two children. But, I'm wondering how would Katrice Major have gotten to Mississippi from Germany???
Could the kidnapper have been military? Did the parents notify LE immediately?
Wouldn't there have been a "lookout" for someone leaving the area with a child, by plane?
I realize that in 1981, they may not have had to have a passport for the child, but still, it wouldn't be that easy, even then, to have whisked her away to the USA.
I also know that in 1981, every parent was more informed about kidnapping, than earlier years, media was more likely to follow these types of things. I certainly was, my daughter was born in 1981, so I prepared kits for both my children, then updated them every year.
Has anyone contacted Interpol, about this Baby Doe? I'm willing to help, in anyway, just let me know what you would need me to do.

MadeaBecBec
06-08-2009, 12:07 PM
Just wanted to let you all know, I have sent this in to all agencys involved as a possible match to Megan Ginevicz, her case is here : http://doj.mt.gov/enforcement/missingpersons/searchdetail.aspx?RecordKey=4574
They are so similar in looks, to me, that I actually cried for Megan (already cried about Delta Dawn) and am praying for her family! This case is a heart breaker for sure and one that has had me waking up in the middle of the night looking for possibles! Megan would have been 46 months old(actually one week shy of 47 months) when this happened and I considered the possibilty of it not being her because of that, thinking an almost 4 year old would have more than 12 teeth, however, I went back and looked at my journal for my Grands and I had counted one of my grandbabys teeth at that age and they had 14 at that age (Pediatrician says sometimes they are late getting their jaw teeth in) so I started searching for the years preceeding the death of Delta Dawn..... *sigh*
The latest article I read about this child is here: http://www.nbc15online.com/news/custom/special%20reports/story/The-Mystery-of-Baby-Jane-Doe/yHj9NtD2DEud_SVIIT6BDw.cspx (video here, too) The detectives were trying to find the trucker that spotted this baby in the river to re-interview him! I haven't found anything more about whether they did or didn't locate him, the story was written in Feb. 2008!
I will post here when I know something more!!
Here's the side by side photo;

pearly
06-11-2009, 12:13 AM
It looks likes a good match MBB! Very sad case though

phylliyum
09-03-2009, 06:35 PM
possible matches:

http://charleyproject.org/cases/g/ginevicz_megan.html
about 2 years older than this little one, but the resemblance is striking.

that's the only possible match i found on charley project....

I agree with the runaway theory, although, sadly, it means this little one will probably never be identified.

I also wonder if this is another Jaycee Dugard situation - mom had been abducted, and held captive, had a baby by her rapist, and decided to take the little girl and run.

i really wish we knew more about the mother though...that's the real key to figuring out who she is.

Kat
09-08-2009, 04:40 PM
http://www.gulflive.com/news/mississippipress/news.ssf?/base/news/1252318523106410.xml&coll=5

Monday, September 07, 2009

Can DNA advances solve cold case?



...Advances in DNA technology could prove the strongest chance for investigators to determine the identity of Baby Jane, an unknown infant girl found dead in Dog River 27 years ago...

... Jackson County Sheriff's investigator Hope Thornton said the body of the child was exhumed in November 2008 to obtain DNA samples, ...

..."In March 2008, I was contacted by a California coroner," Thornton said. "The family of a young girl who disappeared about the same time saw the digital composite of Delta and wants to know if she could actually be theirs."

Allegedly, the boyfriend of the girl's mother stated he kidnapped the child and killed her but has never told authorities where the child's remains were hidden, Thornton said...

...But investigators have also not ruled out a truck driver as a prime suspect in the child's demise.

Ted Hammond of Florida reported seeing a dead body in the Escatawpa River as he drove over an Interstate 10 bridge...


Two page article. Interesting comments about suspect made by current investigator of this crime.

Kat
09-08-2009, 05:29 PM
From the doenetwork page:

Authorities speculate the woman may have thrown the child into the water and then jumped. The baby still had a breath of life because she had sucked in some of the murky water into her lungs.
It is unclear if the body of the woman was recovered.

How can it be "unclear" if the body of the woman was recovered? Even if the body floated really far downstream, I'm sure investigators at the time would keep an ear out for reports of any IUD females being found remotely close to that location.

Perhaps it is just the way the report on doenetwork has worded it, but I find that statement odd and confusing.

That said, the question remains obvious. What did happen to the body of the adult someone reported seeing? I find it very hard to believe that someone could mistake the body of a little toddler for that of an adult, even from a distance. This case is very puzzling.

I do not have the answer to Shecky's question but would like to add that after having read many of the articles about this young girl.

I am under the impression that a woman and child were reported to have been seen walking by truckers and that woman refused help from the truckers.

There was one trucker how called in to report he saw an adult female body floating in the river. When the LE went to investigate that is when they found Delta Dawn.

LE has some questions about the trucker that called the body in.

I'm not sure there was an adult female body.

Laura_Bean
09-16-2009, 12:10 PM
I contacted Katrice's family. They do not believe it is her. I am surprised they would just say no to the possibility, and so quickly too. The reasons they gave seemed vague and almost as though they just want to believe she is alive and won't believe she was killed soon after being taken. I was thinking a few possibilities of what could have happened.

1. Back than it was easy to get a fake passport. Also, the passport if the parent was an American would only have been checked while leaving Germany, but at that time would not have been checked on the way into America if the man and/or woman coming home with the child was an American. I know this because I spoke with a flight attendant who has been working with the airline for many many years.

2. No one she told me, would have questioned a father or mother and what appeared to be his or her child. As long as Katrice did not put up a struggle and seemed happy and okay with the people she was with no one would have questioned them.

3. If Katrice had become ill, her new parents may have been too afraid to take her to the hospital for treatment. Had she been dying, or if the parents believed she were dead, it may have sparked a suicide and the reason why the woman seen with the child would not accept help and threw herself with the child off of the bridge.

4. If someone became supicious, and asked the parents where they got this child, it may have sparked the same scenario above.

5. Katrice's own family believes she was taken by someone from another country, and most likely someone in the military. The reasons the family states this are that the child was taken from a military grocery store. The only people allowed in and out are military with ID's. I don't think these ID's were fake, I think whoever took her was either in the military OR worked at the grocery store. Which by the way, were usually military anyway, who worked as a side job at the stores. So therefore, more than likely a military person.

6. Lots of US men were stationed in Germany during this time. My own father was one of them.

I think it is very possible that a US soldier saw little Katrice and took her home with him. Why? I don't know. Still working on that one. His wife could have had a miscarriage, they could have had a child die, maybe they couldn't have children at all for one reason or another, perhaps Katrice was just so cute he couldn't help himself... I don't think it was a child molestor if Katrice did end up in the states, I just don't see anyone going through that much trouble... The fake passport that would be needed... Etc... A woman jumping off the bridge with the child, not a man.... Anyways.... What do you all think? The picture of Katrice and the other little girl look sooooooo much alike, I can't just write it off. Maybe I am wrong. But I think a DNA test would give us a much, much, clearer picture. And if I was wrong we could go on from there.

kgeaux
09-16-2009, 05:02 PM
http://www.gulflive.com/news/mississippipress/news.ssf?/base/news/1252318523106410.xml&coll=5

Monday, September 07, 2009

Can DNA advances solve cold case?




Two page article. Interesting comments about suspect made by current investigator of this crime.

Good article. I wonder how the truck driver's story has changed so much? Since the woman and the child were seen by other drivers, it can't be that he kidnapped the little girl and threw her over the railing into the river, can it?

Cymro
09-17-2009, 03:43 AM
I do see a resemblance with Katrice but she'd been missing for over a year when the UID was found, meaning that she'd have been 3 - I know it's only a year's difference but it puts her at 150-200% of the estimated age range.

I don't know if the base was a NATO or British Army base - and as stated, children didn't need passports then - but it's not immediately obvious how she'd have been taken to America (which doesn't mean it didn't happen). I still think Katrice is probably too old though.

teonspaleprincess
09-17-2009, 10:54 AM
I agree Cymo, even though it is only a year, kids get a lot of teeth between 18 months and 3 years old, so they should be able to get really close to here age.

mtrooper
11-20-2009, 01:16 PM
Has anyone else seen the morgue photo of this little girl? It is in black and white and not very clear

********WARNING MORGUE PHOTOS at this link************

http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=1963

teonspaleprincess
04-23-2010, 08:54 PM
Was there ever any news on this case?

Stephani
06-18-2010, 03:03 PM
I'm not sure if a thread has already been started for "Baby Jane". If so, please remove my thread. I came across this story while doing a little research on Pascagoula, MS for work. There are tons of articles on "Baby Jane" if you do an internet search for them for all of the details. Just wondered if anyone had any interest in helping me find out who she may be...I have attached a link to an article commemorating the 25 anniversary of her being found in the river and to Pascagoula's wikipedia listing which mentions her story briefly.

http://www.helpfindthemissing.org/forum/showthread.php?t=473
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascagoula,_MS

Stephani
06-18-2010, 03:05 PM
And, my first attempt at starting a thread that was meant to be in the UID section, ends up in the missing section. Oops! LOL! Can someone move it for me if a thread is not already active for her? Sorry!

Snackcakes66
06-18-2010, 08:08 PM
Hi, I think this sweetheart has a thread here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26761&highlight=Pascagoula

Salem
06-19-2010, 12:10 AM
Try this link - hopefully it will work: http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html

Salem

Kat
06-19-2010, 01:10 AM
I have a few questions for any member that has followed this case closely please?

1. Delta Dawn is reported to have been found in the dog river in Pascagoula, MS. (missing children websites) However, I have seen old newspaper articles that report that she was found in the dog river in Escatawpa MS.

2. Do we have a member here that knows exactly the spot in 1982 from the descriptions where this might have been along I-110 and does anyone know where some actual shots of the river and bridge might be? If not, anyone local willing to go take a few? :)

3. I saw this post on another forum that I stumbled across looking for info on Delta Dawn, does anyone know any more details about this confession?
Cold Case Investigations - View Single Post - BABY JANE, Mississippi, 1982

4. Not a question but a search suggestion the current investigator of this case doesn't call Delta Dawn/Baby Doe by that name he calls her Baby Jane.

Kat
06-19-2010, 01:51 AM
One more thing I wanted to post.

In this article (it may be already posted backthread)

http://www.local15tv.com/news/custom/special%20reports/story/The-Mystery-of-Baby-Jane-Doe/yHj9NtD2DEud_SVIIT6BDw.cspx

Last Update: 2/19/2008 11:02 pm

snipped:

...Now, 25 years later, the focus is on the truck driver who called saying he saw the baby's body. Among the many questions is, why did the truck driver wait until he was miles away to make the call.

Detectives say they are getting closer to tracking down that truck driver, but they realize it could be just another dead end. According to Captain Sears, "We just want to try and go over his statement that he made back then, that was, which of course back then was not a very good statement."...


Scanned copies of old articles can actually be viewed here (I have not tried google archives)

http://icaremissingpersonscoldcases.yuku.com/topic/903

For those that are willing to try and track down that truck driver (if LE has not already been able to do so) and forward the contact info to LE (a lot of talented sleuths can do this by simple deep searches) I believe he is named by first and last names within those articles. (pretty darn sure :))

I will do it if no one else has in about a month or so, I have very little free time at this moment. Good luck sleuthing, and let us know if you send forward any info to LE (not the info just that you sent it forward :))

Cubby
06-19-2010, 04:26 PM
Just an FYI. OT- but relevent.

If you happen to see an old doenetwork link with a .us those are old links.
All you have to do to get the correct link is change the .us to .org and the link will work again.

At some point ages ago, doenetwork changed from .us to .org but the links remain the same other than the change needed from .us to .org

hth

Cubby
mod

high voltage
06-20-2010, 12:38 AM
One more thing I wanted to post.

In this article (it may be already posted backthread)

http://www.local15tv.com/news/custom/special%20reports/story/The-Mystery-of-Baby-Jane-Doe/yHj9NtD2DEud_SVIIT6BDw.cspx

Last Update: 2/19/2008 11:02 pm

snipped:


Scanned copies of old articles can actually be viewed here (I have not tried google archives)

http://icaremissingpersonscoldcases.yuku.com/topic/903

For those that are willing to try and track down that truck driver (if LE has not already been able to do so) and forward the contact info to LE (a lot of talented sleuths can do this by simple deep searches) I believe he is named by first and last names within those articles. (pretty darn sure :))

I will do it if no one else has in about a month or so, I have very little free time at this moment. Good luck sleuthing, and let us know if you send forward any info to LE (not the info just that you sent it forward :))

According to the first article at that link, trucker's name is Ted Hammond of Ocoee, Fla.

Kat
06-20-2010, 02:30 AM
According to the first article at that link, trucker's name is T. Hammond of Ocoee, Fla.

Thank you high voltage. Just to let you know in case you didn't we aren't allowed to post first and last names of people that aren't named POI's and I'm not sure but I think they like us to use initials. So I made your post into a first initial when I quoted it. :)

No sweat, if someone complains a mod will come by and edit it for you :)

laini
06-25-2010, 01:37 AM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2918dfca.html Just looking around doenetwork and found this.
Could this be her? Brandi Lee Krajewski disappeared Oct. 7, 1982 from California. Baby Jane was found December 5, 1982. Any thoughts?

nanny2five
08-01-2010, 05:16 AM
bumping for this baby

Stephani
08-02-2010, 09:09 AM
laini-I like your match, a lot of it seems to add up for our Baby Jane...although I wonder if the ME would've noted a scar on Baby Jane's face...

nola
01-03-2011, 10:09 AM
Brandi Lee Krajewski seems like a pretty good match. Any update on this? Since Baby Jane was in the water for up to 48 hours the scar (if faint) may not have been as visible with exposure to the elements.

Has there ever been a description given of the female adult (mom) seen carrying this child along the interstate highway bridge the Friday night prior to this baby being found in the water? I have searched without success -- although I have seen articles written indicating that both the mom and child were seen by numerous truck drivers- as well as seen at an Alabama truck stop the day previous to the highway incident. A description of the mom might help in this case!!!

nola
01-19-2011, 11:54 PM
Wanted to update the thread to share that the Jackson County, Mississippi Detective who reopened Baby Jane's case has recently received a grant that will help her in the effort to attempt to obtain a DNA profile for this precious baby. Keep your collective fingers crossed that the University of Texas is successful and quick in this important task.

Deeds
05-17-2011, 09:56 AM
In 1988, a man confessed to killing or being present at as many as 30 people. This man claims to have been part of the Outlaws Motorcycle Gang which travelled all over the USA in the 1980s. When he gave descriptions of some of the killings, he described this one:

*Shooting a female to death and throwing her young child into a river.

I wonder if it is possible that Jane Doe, Pascagoula is the child of thom he was speaking about. Could it be that a teenager had been pregnant, runaway from home and had the baby? Therefore accounting for no one claiming this child after the mother was gone. Maybe along the Interstate 10 bridge, Mother and child had a run-in with the Outlaws who were known to ride along Interstate 10

This is an sampling of some of Lovie Riddles notes.

This is from the Lewiston Daily Sun Saturday morning Sept 10th 1988.

Alabama man claims that he has killed as many as 30 people.

Riddle stated to Detective Peter Herring that he had killed as many as 30 people over the past 13 years.On Aug 24th he recounted to Herring details of numerous homicides and as many as 35 kidnappings in several states and Canada. On Sept 9th he told reporters the material was for a novel he planned to write.

Described as a transient who worked as a cook at inns in Boothbay Harbor and Jackson, NH.

An affidavit filed with the Bridgton District Court complaint states Riddle offered a ride to a woman walking along rt 302 in Fryeburg Aug 13th ('88)and then pulled off on a dirt road and forced her to commit oral sex.

Riddle told Herring in a 2 and a half hr interview of "participating in and being present at numerous homicides" as a member of the Outlaws motorcycle gang.

The document said Riddle did not want his attorney present during the interview because he wanted to get help and not get out of jail. “If it takes 50 or 100 years, get me off the street. Keep me in there till I die, if it will help...”

Herring read from the notebooks. In part, “In the last 13 years I've allowed this force at least 30 times. The same force that drove me to kill in '83 is driving me again"

"The defendant told of kidnapping children in the US and Canada" the affidavit said. “He indicated that he participated (in more than) 35 kidnappings." Among the events described, the document said.

* kidnapping a 4 yr old from Tenn. and delivering him to Quebec.

*Kidnapping a girl named Nicolo aged 8 or 9 from Canada in '86 and transporting her to Texas where he believes she was killed.

*Killing of a male, mutilating his body and dumping it along interstate 10 in Beaumont.

*Shooting a female to death and throwing her young child into a river.

*Being present when a 17 yr old girl was beaten to death with a hammer in Tenn.

*Killing a female in Cape Cod by beating her with a soda bottle and leaving her body under an overpass.

* Beating a female in CT near Hartford.

* Killing two game wardens in 79 and burying their bodies in a field.

nola
05-19-2011, 11:41 PM
Hello Deeds,
When I read your post on the other thread I immediately thought of the Dog River. Here is a link to the newspaper report where Riddle made these statements. http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ZDgpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=D2UFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2231,1945111 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?
id=ZDgpAAAAIBAJ&sjid=D2UFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2231,1945111)

Riddle kept a notebook (found in his car) detailing crimes but stated that the notes were for a novel he was writing.

Deeds
05-20-2011, 02:26 PM
Hi Nola,

Unfortunately, your link would not work... but I have read the article before. The more I look into the diary samples from the article, the more unsolved cases I find that match his descriptions of the murders.

I think like most killers, they like to think they're smarter then everyone else and with that I believe he changed some details of the crimes to mislead.

Another reason why I think there is a good possibility that the diary is real is the way that Riddle provokes within his quotes. It’s very much like other serial killers in the way that they taunted police to catch them.

The details of the murders he does describes (i.e.: cause of death etc.) comes very close to many unsolved murders within the timeline within the 13 year period, 1975 - 1988.

Not to mention that a lot of the murders happen along the interstate, the riding ground for many motorcycle gangs, most heavily within that time period the Outlaws motorcycle gang.

In addition, if he was a member of the Outlaws, they have a ‘no talk’ rule and a don’t sell out your brothers, therefore I believe the "novel" justification was rouse.

This is just my theory, my only concern is that Riddle is getting up there in age. I just don’t want what he has done to die with him.

Only because if he has been present or committed up to 30 murders, the 30 victim’s families should have a right to know what happen to there loved ones and be able to give them a loving proper burial. Also the 30 victims deserve justice!

nola
05-20-2011, 06:45 PM
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&drKey=910&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D26761%26page%3D3&v=1&libid=1305930457256&out=http%3A%2F%2Fofficialcoldcaseinvestigations.co m%2Fshowpost.php%3Fp%3D54304%26postcount%3D256&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.websleuths.com%2Fforums%2Fsho wthread.php%3Ft%3D26761%26page%3D2&title=MS%20MS%20-%20Child%20Jane%20Doe%2C%20Pascagoula%20-%20Dec.%201982%20*merged*%20-%20Page%203%20-%20Websleuths%20Crime%20Sleuthing%20Community&txt=Cold%20Case%20Investigations%20-%20View%20Single%20Post%20-%20%20BABY%20JANE%2C%20Mississippi%2C%201982


Sorry 'bout the first link...this link to the Riddle article was posted earlier on this thread. Hopefully this will work.

Sleuthster
06-06-2011, 06:08 PM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2918dfca.html Just looking around doenetwork and found this.
Could this be her? Brandi Lee Krajewski disappeared Oct. 7, 1982 from California. Baby Jane was found December 5, 1982. Any thoughts?


Was this ever submitted?? She looks like one of the artists drawings on doenetwork IMO! Its a possibility. I would be suprised if this was not looked at before, amazed actually.

nola
06-08-2011, 07:08 PM
Was this ever submitted?? She looks like one of the artists drawings on doenetwork IMO! Its a possibility. I would be suprised if this was not looked at before, amazed actually.

I sent an e-mail to the MS detective assigned to Baby Jane's case today about Brandi Krajewski as a possible match. I haven't heard back from this detective in a while about the status of Baby Jane's DNA profile. The detective had received a grant to exhume the body and retrieve DNA samples for profiling earlier this year. The last that I heard the samples had been send to Texas for this purpose.

nola
06-10-2011, 12:12 AM
I received a message from the case detective today stating that DNA is being checked to see if the child is Brandi Lee Krajewski.

Deeds
08-10-2011, 04:40 PM
any news on the DNA????

DaisyBill
08-10-2011, 07:24 PM
I have a few questions for any member that has followed this case closely please?

1. Delta Dawn is reported to have been found in the dog river in Pascagoula, MS. (missing children websites) However, I have seen old newspaper articles that report that she was found in the dog river in Escatawpa MS.

2. Do we have a member here that knows exactly the spot in 1982 from the descriptions where this might have been along I-110 and does anyone know where some actual shots of the river and bridge might be? If not, anyone local willing to go take a few? :)

3. I saw this post on another forum that I stumbled across looking for info on Delta Dawn, does anyone know any more details about this confession?
Cold Case Investigations - View Single Post - BABY JANE, Mississippi, 1982 (http://officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com/showpost.php?p=54304&postcount=256)

4. Not a question but a search suggestion the current investigator of this case doesn't call Delta Dawn/Baby Doe by that name he calls her Baby Jane.


I was living in this area in 1982 (1981-1986) and have been racking my brain to remember this case but can't. However, I wanted to say a little something on the Escatawpa vs Pascagoula mentioned in your #1. There are alot of little bitty towns in the area. Escatawpa was one..not much there but some houses, at the time. We had a friend whose address was Pascagoula but he actually lived in Moss Point. Unincorporated towns took the address of much larger towns in the area. (when we lived in CO we lived in an unincorporated area called Fruitvale but our address was Grand Junction...we lived in the county not the city and paid different taxes because of it).

So it is possible that this was the case and people are referring to the larger town of Pascagoula. Also, I think more people have heard of Pascagoula (shipyards) vs Escatawpa and use it for a better reference for the area.

nola
08-11-2011, 09:05 PM
any news on the DNA????

No news from Hope Thornton (detective) yet on any DNA update from UT. I sent her an e-mail today and will update the thread with her reply.

I have asked to speak with Hope in person to review this case and get more details about the woman seen walking I-10 in the nights before Baby Jane was found. I want to get a better description of this likely mom and more information about where she was seen in the day's just prior. In addition I want to find out if there is any evidence to connect Riddle to this case.

If she says yes to my request for a personal meeting, do you guys have other leads or questions that you would like me to inquire about? If so, send me a private message or post them here.

Thanks to all of you for keeping this case and thread active!

Patience
12-11-2011, 10:41 PM
Any updates on this case?

Lovely
12-20-2011, 01:18 PM
I am also wondering, is there an update on the case of this little girl?

nola
12-23-2011, 12:54 PM
I have not heard back from the detective. I will give her a call next week to see if there is any update from the DNA testing.

Staperk
02-08-2012, 12:16 AM
I just wanted to bump for this little girl. I was hoping that perhaps someone had heard something about doing DNA testing.

SemmesMom
07-01-2012, 02:26 AM
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2918dfca.html Just looking around doenetwork and found this.
Could this be her? Brandi Lee Krajewski disappeared Oct. 7, 1982 from California. Baby Jane was found December 5, 1982. Any thoughts?

Laini,
I know it's been awhile since you made this post, but I wonder if it was ever called in. I pass by this area where Baby Jane was found about once a month. Since I found out about her, I think about her a lot and have done a lot of searching, hoping to find out who she may be. I came across Brandi a few weeks ago and keep going back and comparing them because they do favor so much, IMHO.

SemmesMom
07-01-2012, 02:43 AM
Guess I spoke too soon. I see now that there was DNA testing to compare to Brandi.

Still_Seek_Answers
05-28-2014, 06:41 AM
Does anybody know if the police ever located the truck driver so they could ask him more questions about that night?

Does anybody know if Brandi was actually submitted and was a comparison done?

Thank you......and welcome to a new member of WS!

Ambercat
05-31-2014, 02:33 AM
The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children posted a different composite of this little girl --
http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMU1103997c1.jpg
http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMU/1103997/1#poster

She's such a pretty little girl -- it seems like someone should be able to remember her and who she is.

Still_Seek_Answers
05-31-2014, 04:09 AM
The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children posted a different composite of this little girl --
http://www.missingkids.com/photographs/NCMU1103997c1.jpg
http://www.missingkids.com/poster/NCMU/1103997/1#poster

She's such a pretty little girl -- it seems like someone should be able to remember her and who she is.

Thank you. Yes, I know they posted the new composite. That is where I saw her case at. I still feel y'all were onto something and that she needs checked against Brandi. Worst case, we get a rule out.

I'd really like to know if police ever located the trucker and were able to question him. His story is, IMO, more full of holes than a waffle ball.

Sleuthster
06-02-2014, 11:55 AM
Namus file https://identifyus.org/en/cases/12191

carbuff
06-02-2014, 12:27 PM
A somewhat late comment, but depending on currents in a body of water, and slight differences in where two bodies might have gone in, they could drift a considerable distance apart. There's also considerable weight difference between the two, which would increase the differences. I would think most likely the mother, being heavier, sank deeper and was snagged on something that prevented her from being found. Dragging, even when a thorough job is done, isn't very accurate.

I agree the truck driver's story sounds, um, questionable.

edited to add: looking on the map, I'm not sure what to think. Escatawpa is upstream from the I-10 bridge: https://goo.gl/maps/1e91n Does anybody know if the river is tidal there, so bodies could be pushed upstream by the tides?

sloane7777
06-02-2014, 12:47 PM
Well from everything I have read ( except Herrings confession) The reports of the woman in distress and not wanting help , sounds like a murder -suicide to me , sadly! Did the ever determine if the womans body was recovered and just lost or not recovered?

carbuff
06-02-2014, 01:06 PM
Well from everything I have read ( except Herrings confession) The reports of the woman in distress and not wanting help , sounds like a murder -suicide to me , sadly! Did the ever determine if the womans body was recovered and just lost or not recovered?

Yeah, that's possible also, sadly.

Doenet indicates that it's unclear whether the mother's body was recovered. Most likely not, is my guess, because I think if it had, it would be mentioned. Mother and daughter found, that sort of thing.

Ambercat
06-02-2014, 08:48 PM
Thank you. Yes, I know they posted the new composite. That is where I saw her case at. I still feel y'all were onto something and that she needs checked against Brandi. Worst case, we get a rule out.

I'd really like to know if police ever located the trucker and were able to question him. His story is, IMO, more full of holes than a waffle ball.

That was the first time I saw it (last Friday). Each of the reconstructions of this girl look like a completely different child to me. While it wouldn't hurt to check to see if she is Brandi, I have doubts because of the distance between San Bernardino County, CA and Pascagoula, MS and there are quite a few places to hide a body in the California desert, you don't need to go that far.

From the trucker's description of the lady's clothing, I wonder if he saw her jump from the bridge (instead of seeing her in the river below)? [Just IMO] I don't think he would have called it in if it was his fault that she was down there.

Still_Seek_Answers
06-02-2014, 10:42 PM
That was the first time I saw it (last Friday). Each of the reconstructions of this girl look like a completely different child to me. While it wouldn't hurt to check to see if she is Brandi, I have doubts because of the distance between San Bernardino County, CA and Pascagoula, MS and there are quite a few places to hide a body in the California desert, you don't need to go that far.

From the trucker's description of the lady's clothing, I wonder if he saw her jump from the bridge (instead of seeing her in the river below)? [Just IMO] I don't think he would have called it in if it was his fault that she was down there.
Sorry, but I just am not buying into this truckers tail. He saw the body of a woman, while driving over a bridge in his truck? He saw her clear enough to describe her clothing? Yet, in all these years, her body has not turned up anywhere?
I have never seen anybody drift upstream. I think maybe he took advantage of a situation. The woman's body was never found, what evidence is it to say she jumped? (Not accusing, only speculating)

carbuff
06-02-2014, 10:47 PM
A body will move upstream in a tidal river, especially a sluggish one. The tide pushes it a little farther upstream each cycle.

Ambercat
06-03-2014, 05:22 AM
Sorry, but I just am not buying into this truckers tail. He saw the body of a woman, while driving over a bridge in his truck? He saw her clear enough to describe her clothing? Yet, in all these years, her body has not turned up anywhere?
I have never seen anybody drift upstream. I think maybe he took advantage of a situation. The woman's body was never found, what evidence is it to say she jumped? (Not accusing, only speculating)

I'm not saying that I believe it; what I am saying is that to describe her clothing like that, I think he had to see her prior to her entering the river. I guess he could have also encountered her earlier in his trip (at a rest stop or something like that). I don't know about Mississippi, but some states have laws about failing to aid a person in distress and things of that nature (which could be a reason for the trucker to say he saw a dead body as opposed to the woman before she entered the river/was in the process of entering the water). I think sometimes long haul truckers would take uppers so that they could travel longer distances (currently, there is legislation to try to curb this). Do you know how long after he saw the body that he reported it? IMO, the trucker might be hiding something but I really don't see why someone would call in a dead body if they were the one who put it there especially if no one else knew that it was there (and bring attention to himself).

Still_Seek_Answers
06-04-2014, 06:51 PM
I'm not saying that I believe it; what I am saying is that to describe her clothing like that, I think he had to see her prior to her entering the river. I guess he could have also encountered her earlier in his trip (at a rest stop or something like that). I don't know about Mississippi, but some states have laws about failing to aid a person in distress and things of that nature (which could be a reason for the trucker to say he saw a dead body as opposed to the woman before she entered the river/was in the process of entering the water). I think sometimes long haul truckers would take uppers so that they could travel longer distances (currently, there is legislation to try to curb this). Do you know how long after he saw the body that he reported it? IMO, the trucker might be hiding something but I really don't see why someone would call in a dead body if they were the one who put it there especially if no one else knew that it was there (and bring attention to himself).

That is if the woman's body was ever in the river. We know several people saw the woman along the road. WE know it went over the CB radio, the area she was in and what she was wearing. Only one person ever saw her in the river. I know bodies can get lost in the water. Every thing past that we only have one persons view on.

traacker13
06-06-2014, 04:15 PM
I know that the heights/weight estimate is off for this possibility but this is the closest that I could find. What does anyone think about this possibly being Jackie Dene Hay?

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/200dfks.html

carbuff
06-06-2014, 04:59 PM
A friend of mine who drives a truck says yes, it's quite likely a truck driver might have seen a body that nobody else noticed. In the cab of a truck, you sit up way high, she says, and you can look over the railings that block the view for a car. If it was daylight, he might well have been able to get a good look at her.

Cell phones weren't around that much in 1982. If he didn't have a CB radio--they were common, but not every trucker had one--he would have had to drive to an exit or truck stop to find a phone before he could report it.

Still_Seek_Answers
06-06-2014, 10:17 PM
A friend of mine who drives a truck says yes, it's quite likely a truck driver might have seen a body that nobody else noticed. In the cab of a truck, you sit up way high, she says, and you can look over the railings that block the view for a car. If it was daylight, he might well have been able to get a good look at her.

Cell phones weren't around that much in 1982. If he didn't have a CB radio--they were common, but not every trucker had one--he would have had to drive to an exit or truck stop to find a phone before he could report it.

I have no doubt that he could have seen her. My brother drove for years, and I know the view is much different. I just find all the circumstances as odd. A trucker with no CB, that would have been very very weird. Guess I just wonder if the police found him......and if his story stayed the same. I find it odd that they did not find a trace of her body. Also, my dad was an over the road trucker for years, back then truckers just had certain rules they followed. If he had pulled over, a fellow trucker would have stopped and offered assistance. Just curious if they got to follow up with him after all these years.

honesty
06-07-2014, 06:11 AM
I'm not saying that I believe it; what I am saying is that to describe her clothing like that, I think he had to see her prior to her entering the river. I guess he could have also encountered her earlier in his trip (at a rest stop or something like that). I don't know about Mississippi, but some states have laws about failing to aid a person in distress and things of that nature (which could be a reason for the trucker to say he saw a dead body as opposed to the woman before she entered the river/was in the process of entering the water). I think sometimes long haul truckers would take uppers so that they could travel longer distances (currently, there is legislation to try to curb this). Do you know how long after he saw the body that he reported it? IMO, the trucker might be hiding something but I really don't see why someone would call in a dead body if they were the one who put it there especially if no one else knew that it was there (and bring attention to himself).


Back when this happened, the driver could have been high on something, BUT... In today's times it is unlikely. I don't know what you mean by some legislation to curb truckers taking uppers.... I have driven a truck for over 20 years, managed a company for 12, I take random drug tests, and to be quite frank, there are less truckers using drugs than there are people on the streets using per capita. Truckers not only has to wiz in a cup, they also at times have to blow for alcohol testing. EVERY trucking company is part of a drug consortium and a high percentage of numbers are drawn randomly each quarter, so many are drawn for urine testing, so many are drawn for both urine and breath testing. Truck drivers are more regulated on MANY levels, not just drug testing, they must pass a physical that has higher standards than a airline pilot, they are also computer tracked and logged these days. Some companies have cams In the cab to ensure they are not using their telephone while driving and a front facing cam to record accidents etc. In a few years all trucks will have OBR's or they will not be able to get insurance or be allowed to keep their operating authority and DOT numbers, ALL these things I have talked about including the testing for drugs and alcohol are regulated by the FMCSA. Each company not only files quarterly with the FMSCA but the state DOT comes and looks at their records at will anytime, no advance notice required.

I know these things because when I retired I became certified for reasonable suspicion testing, I freelance as a broker who sets up companies, I properly put their files together and sit in on their DOT audits.

I'll step off my soapbox now, it just irritates me to no end when people assume things they do not understand.

carbuff
06-07-2014, 12:59 PM
Thank you. I'm glad you explained that. I was going to, but since I'm just a mildly informed friend of a trucker, I don't have as much cred.

Ambercat
06-07-2014, 06:04 PM
Back when this happened, the driver could have been high on something, BUT... In today's times it is unlikely. I don't know what you mean by some legislation to curb truckers taking uppers.... I have driven a truck for over 20 years, managed a company for 12, I take random drug tests, and to be quite frank, there are less truckers using drugs than there are people on the streets using per capita. Truckers not only has to wiz in a cup, they also at times have to blow for alcohol testing. EVERY trucking company is part of a drug consortium and a high percentage of numbers are drawn randomly each quarter, so many are drawn for urine testing, so many are drawn for both urine and breath testing. Truck drivers are more regulated on MANY levels, not just drug testing, they must pass a physical that has higher standards than a airline pilot, they are also computer tracked and logged these days. Some companies have cams In the cab to ensure they are not using their telephone while driving and a front facing cam to record accidents etc. In a few years all trucks will have OBR's or they will not be able to get insurance or be allowed to keep their operating authority and DOT numbers, ALL these things I have talked about including the testing for drugs and alcohol are regulated by the FMCSA. Each company not only files quarterly with the FMSCA but the state DOT comes and looks at their records at will anytime, no advance notice required.

I know these things because when I retired I became certified for reasonable suspicion testing, I freelance as a broker who sets up companies, I properly put their files together and sit in on their DOT audits.

I'll step off my soapbox now, it just irritates me to no end when people assume things they do not understand.

Maybe I phrased what I was trying to say poorly, but you misunderstand me. I did not mean to imply that the driver was “high” on anything; just that, especially prior to Ronald Reagan’s signing of Executive Order 12564 in 1986 (more rules were introduced in 1991 after congress passed the Omnibus Transportation Employee Testing Act) some people did certain things so that they could stay awake for longer periods of time and cover more mileage with less sleep.

The Oklahoma City Legal Examiner states this about drug use in the trucking industry prior to 1986 --


Truck drivers have used amphetamines to combat symptoms of somnolence, as well as to increase their concentration while driving. Amphetamine use was especially prevalent prior President Reagan’s signing of the Executive Order 12564, which initiated mandatory random drug testing of all truck drivers.
http://oklahomacity.legalexaminer.com/tractor-trailer-accidents/distracted-trucking/

More information about the legislation itself --
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/12564.html
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/overview-drug-and-alcohol-rules

I did not intend to besmirch anyone. My point was that even if the truck driver was hiding something from/not being 100% forthright with LE [as has been implied here], it absolutely does not mean that he did something to the woman [who has never been located] or the little girl. I probably should not have cited examples of something a person in that situation might possibly be more likely to hide than what I thought was being implied. If I said it badly and offended you, I am very sorry.

Still_Seek_Answers
06-08-2014, 05:20 AM
I am not meaning to imply what the trucker did...or did not....do. I just find the circumstances odd.

He is driving along and he sees a body in the water from the cab of his truck. Yet he did not pull over and try to give assistance, or get assistance. From that distance he'd not know if it was someone who jumped off of a bride, or someone who accidentally fell in while walking along the river bank. I'd think it'd be impossible from his view to ascertain rather or not the person was deceased? Yet he reported seeing a body in the water, and not a person in the water. I just find the wording unusual. (JMHO)

Once he finally gets to the truck area, he calls in a report. Back then there were pay phones everywhere, were there no exits between when he saw the body....and where he called and reported it? ( Just Curious)

He could not accompany LE back to show them where he saw the body? Once again my mind says....what made him just assume this person was deceased?

That is the reason why I am wondering if LE were able to find him in order to ask him more questions, as it is stated they wished to do.

honesty
06-08-2014, 06:00 AM
Maybe I phrased what I was trying to say poorly, but you misunderstand me. I did not mean to imply that the driver was “high” on anything; just that, especially prior to Ronald Reagan’s signing of Executive Order 12564 in 1986 (more rules were introduced in 1991 after congress passed the Omnibus Transportation Employee Testing Act) some people did certain things so that they could stay awake for longer periods of time and cover more mileage with less sleep.

The Oklahoma City Legal Examiner states this about drug use in the trucking industry prior to 1986 --


http://oklahomacity.legalexaminer.com/tractor-trailer-accidents/distracted-trucking/

More information about the legislation itself --
http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/12564.html
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/overview-drug-and-alcohol-rules

I did not intend to besmirch anyone. My point was that even if the truck driver was hiding something from/not being 100% forthright with LE [as has been implied here], it absolutely does not mean that he did something to the woman [who has never been located] or the little girl. I probably should not have cited examples of something a person in that situation might possibly be more likely to hide than what I thought was being implied. If I said it badly and offended you, I am very sorry.

No harm done, I do get defensive, I will be the first to admit that. As a 4th generation truck driver, albeit one that entered a "mans" world before it was "mainstream" for a lady to drive I have the natural instinct to defend our profession. The work that I do now centers on staying up to the minute with legislation, rules and regulations within the industry, that is why it struck me to ask what was going on in congress.

Back in 1982 a trucker very well could have been on a upper. "Toothpicks" and little white pills were a common thing in that day. Men, and very few women would drive 1000 miles plus without a nap, so you did have a lot of tired truckers out there.





I am not meaning to imply what the trucker did...or did not....do. I just find the circumstances odd.

He is driving along and he sees a body in the water from the cab of his truck. Yet he did not pull over and try to give assistance, or get assistance. From that distance he'd not know if it was someone who jumped off of a bride, or someone who accidentally fell in while walking along the river bank. I'd think it'd be impossible from his view to ascertain rather or not the person was deceased? Yet he reported seeing a body in the water, and not a person in the water. I just find the wording unusual. (JMHO)

Once he finally gets to the truck area, he calls in a report. Back then there were pay phones everywhere, were there no exits between when he saw the body....and where he called and reported it? ( Just Curious)

He could not accompany LE back to show them where he saw the body? Once again my mind says....what made him just assume this person was deceased?

That is the reason why I am wondering if LE were able to find him in order to ask him more questions, as it is stated they wished to do.

I do find the truckers reaction or lack of reaction to be odd myself. Even in this day and time there is still a certain creed if you will, that the knights of the highway lend a hand when something is out of place or they see someone in need. The thing that makes me wonder about his statement is he claims to have seen a body in that water, while you can see a lot from that far up in a seat over the highway, his attention to the road would have created a hazard to the public had he taken the time to look long enough to give the details he gave. Something just stinks about the story to me and that is just my opinion. He could have been being honest and legit, but something does not sit right.

The chances of the driver being alive today to be able to be interviewed again (if one could locate him) would be slim as the average lifespan for a long haul trucker is only in the early to mid sixties, and that is if he took care of himself fairly well. Lots of drivers make bad health choices that shorten their lifespans. People were not as "health" aware back then as they are now.

carbuff
06-08-2014, 04:46 PM
Considering the way people who report things have their motivation and behavior criticized and torn apart by everybody who wasn't there second-guessing what happened, I'm surprised anybody reports anything these days.

Still_Seek_Answers
06-09-2014, 12:02 AM
Considering the way people who report things have their motivation and behavior criticized and torn apart by everybody who wasn't there second-guessing what happened, I'm surprised anybody reports anything these days.

These days are much different than the 80's. He told the police he saw a body and then drove off.....so that makes me think he was not being questioned the way someone would be today.

Still_Seek_Answers
06-09-2014, 12:05 AM
I do find the truckers reaction or lack of reaction to be odd myself. Even in this day and time there is still a certain creed if you will, that the knights of the highway lend a hand when something is out of place or they see someone in need. The thing that makes me wonder about his statement is he claims to have seen a body in that water, while you can see a lot from that far up in a seat over the highway, his attention to the road would have created a hazard to the public had he taken the time to look long enough to give the details he gave. Something just stinks about the story to me and that is just my opinion. He could have been being honest and legit, but something does not sit right.

The chances of the driver being alive today to be able to be interviewed again (if one could locate him) would be slim as the average lifespan for a long haul trucker is only in the early to mid sixties, and that is if he took care of himself fairly well. Lots of drivers make bad health choices that shorten their lifespans. People were not as "health" aware back then as they are now.

Exactly my point. He made no attempt to give assistance and he just told them what he saw and then drove away. I just find his use of terminology odd.....I'd have stopped.....but even if he did not stop.....how did he know it was a body in the water.....and not a live person who had accidentally fallen in?

lregey
06-21-2014, 11:41 PM
Hi everybody, I have been following this case for some time and it seems there are alot more questions than what there are of answers. I, myself, have a few of my own.

The truck driver reported two different versions of what he had seen in the water. To the police he reported seeing a body in the water, and to the attendant at the truck stop he reported seeing a body dressed in plaid shirt and blue jeans in the marsh. This raises many questions for me.

Also, in consideration of the fuel line, I would have to ask about the dangers that may be imposed to the vehicle, driver and any passerby with fuel leakage and heated brake systems? Does anyone know if there is possible risk of explosion? I guess I am wondering this because in a regular, everyday vehicle, it would seem likely that leaking gas lines would in the very least start a fire. So I am not sure how it would affect big rigs.

Still_Seek_Answers
08-05-2014, 09:11 AM
It appears that this article gives information that was not released when the baby Doe was found. The child had apparently not eaten all day long.

The grave digger drove west on interstate 10 through a chilly December drizzle. He slowed, peering at a figure laboring along the roadside. He wasn't the only one to spot her. CB radio channels were abuzz that night—Friday the third—with truckers’ reports of a woman carrying what looked like a barefoot, coatless toddler in her arms, walking near the truck scales at the Alabama-Mississippi line. The grave digger felt sorry for her. But in Pascagoula, Mississippi, in 1982, a black man simply didn’t invite a white woman into his vehicle, no matter how miserable the weather. Within days, a small body in a tiny casket would be buried under a donated, nameless stone, and the memory of that night would haunt him. - See more at: http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/summer2014/features/singing-river.html#sthash.9PrL0GPy.dpuf

Lynn Reuss is taunted by vivid dreams: in them, the woman is a runaway who, without her family’s knowledge, gives birth. She is fleeing something or someone, maybe an abusive partner. “Virgil said that the baby was partially smothered, possibly from being held too tightly. Maybe the mother thought her baby was dead” and, panicked, threw her over the bridge. “Did you know that the child had no food in her stomach, but appeared to be cared for? Another reason why I think the mom fled—no money, no blanket, no shoes or socks on the child, no coat or hat. If she had these things, they were lost somewhere along the way.” - See more at: http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/summer2014/features/singing-river.html#sthash.DnZiddn9.dpuf

carbuff
08-05-2014, 11:34 AM
Hi everybody, I have been following this case for some time and it seems there are alot more questions than what there are of answers. I, myself, have a few of my own.

The truck driver reported two different versions of what he had seen in the water. To the police he reported seeing a body in the water, and to the attendant at the truck stop he reported seeing a body dressed in plaid shirt and blue jeans in the marsh. This raises many questions for me.

Also, in consideration of the fuel line, I would have to ask about the dangers that may be imposed to the vehicle, driver and any passerby with fuel leakage and heated brake systems? Does anyone know if there is possible risk of explosion? I guess I am wondering this because in a regular, everyday vehicle, it would seem likely that leaking gas lines would in the very least start a fire. So I am not sure how it would affect big rigs.

He might have said word for word the same thing in both places and the attendant paraphrased it one way while LE paraphrased it another. And the statements are filtered through a reporter, too. It's like a game of gossip.

Or maybe he wasn't thinking of how every possible hidden meaning would be dissected from his statements. They both say essentially the same thing.

lregey
08-05-2014, 03:15 PM
Given the fact that it was cold, storming and dark out, it would make a person wonder why a mom would be travelling on a dark road all alone, with only the baby in her in arms. Could she have been prostituting, I wouldn't imagine so, not with a small child. I am just having a hard time in understanding how the baby appeared healthy and well taken care of (her clothes I had read, were bought from a special clothing store), and all of a sudden appear without proper clothing for the weather conditions and without any food? I am wondering if the mom and baby are from out of state?

carbuff
08-05-2014, 03:21 PM
Given the fact that it was cold, storming and dark out, it would make a person wonder why a mom would be travelling on a dark road all alone, with only the baby in her in arms. Could she have been prostituting, I wouldn't imagine so, not with a small child. I am just having a hard time in understanding how the baby appeared healthy and well taken care of (her clothes I had read, were bought from a special clothing store), and all of a sudden appear without proper clothing for the weather conditions and without any food? I am wondering if the mom and baby are from out of state?

Running away from serious danger would seem to be the most logical explanation.

traacker13
08-05-2014, 04:03 PM
As a mother, I cannot even fathom this. If this was also the only thing she had left in her life why would she let her go? One would think she would be holding on to her with everything she had. And even if she had accidentally died I can't imagine why she would throw her daughter into the river. The more I read the more I think about this the more desperate this woman seems and the more it seems to me that she was trying to commit suicide and her daughter unfortunately he went with her.

Still_Seek_Answers
08-05-2014, 06:04 PM
I do agree she seemed desperate, but I think she was desperate from trying to get away from someone. I think if she had committed suicide, she'd have been there with the baby. The baby was found in a swampy marshy area....so where is the mother?

Meryl12
08-05-2014, 09:08 PM
The story reads as though the mother was desperate, maybe so frantic and desperate she could not think logically.
http://doenetwork.org/cases/45ufms.html She does seem to be prostituting when she would not let anyone help her. She seems to be afraid of strangers, and would not get in to any vehicle that stopped and tried to help her. In the end she commited suicide. My guess would be domestic violence, to be that desperate she must have been afraid for her life and for the life of her daughter, it reads as though her mind collapsed, like a sort of mental break. Heartbreaking.

traacker13
08-05-2014, 09:23 PM
I thought the original article had mention of the body of a woman seen in the river but it was never found after the person who initially reported it??

carbuff
08-05-2014, 10:31 PM
I thought the original article had mention of the body of a woman seen in the river but it was never found after the person who initially reported it??

It's not clear whether it was the same woman or whether she was dead. I presume missing or faulty record-keeping is to blame.

lregey
08-05-2014, 11:27 PM
If I was stranded on a highway with a small baby in arms, I would not want a ride from a stranger either. I am leaning towards the possibility that she did not get there on her own and something happened for her to be walking along the highway in the cold and rain with a small child. We know that the baby was not dressed for this type of weather, she was clothed for warmer temperatures. Which I why I am thinking that she came from a warmer state. Perhaps she could have been walking to the truck stop waiting for that same person to pick her up.

Meryl12
08-05-2014, 11:49 PM
If I was stranded on a highway with a small baby in arms, I would not want a ride from a stranger either. I am leaning towards the possibility that she did not get there on her own and something happened for her to be walking along the highway in the cold and rain with a small child. We know that the baby was not dressed for this type of weather, she was clothed for warmer temperatures. Which I why I am thinking that she came from a warmer state. Perhaps she could have been walking to the truck stop waiting for that same person to pick her up.

That is definitely how this reads, my theory is that she was in an extremely violent situaltion and that someone helped her to escape. She must have come from a warmer climate as the child was not dressed for the type of weather. (She must have not wanted to look as though she was about to escape).
Whatever the reason she was walking down the Interstate the only thing that could have happened must have been that the person she was running away from must have been following and beat her then threw her and the child in killing them both.
I think she was running away, and who-ever she was running away from caught up with her and killed her and the child. Just my opinion.

EmiLove832
08-06-2014, 12:56 AM
But the woman's body was never found, right? I get confused with this case.

I do think the running from someone theory could very well be. Maybe that someone caught up to her and threw the baby into the water as punishment for running. She could've been to fearful to claim her child after what happened?

Still_Seek_Answers
08-06-2014, 04:44 AM
Yes, the woman's body was never found and the baby was actually found miles away under a different bridge than the one the trucker claimed to have saw the body in the water from. I think, (and someone please correct me if I am wrong) but I think the trucker was the only person to ever report seeing the woman's body in the water? Also his story changed drastically when the reporter from the above article tracked him down years later? That raises suspicion with me, as the truth never changes.

It also makes me wonder if Riddle was telling the truth when he confessed to helping someone bury the mothers body, and him being the one that threw this baby from the bridge? Yes, I agree that people's minds can snap and make them do desperate things that they would normally never dream of doing, but this scenario as written, just does not ring true to me. (JMHO)

If I had to make a off the cuff assessment, or even a guess as to what really happened here, my guess would be this. The mother of this child is a runaway whose family never knew she had been pregnant or given birth. She was trapped in an abusive situation, maybe even with a trucker, and that night she got out of a vehicle to escape him. Naturally, she was feeling frightened so she was not going to get into a vehicle with anybody else. She most probably was feeling very desperate.I think the person she was running from caught up with her. I think he killed the mother, and Riddle helped him bury her. I think either Riddle, or the man Baby Momma Doe was running from threw that poor baby over the bridge. I think it was done for 2 reasons. One being to get rid of a baby he did not want, and who could tie him to the murder if the mothers body was ever found, and I think the baby being tossed from the bridge was a deliberate attempt to keep people from actually searching for the body of the mother. As long as people believed the body in the water story, then they would look no place else. I think it was done this way because to many people would have been able to tie the mother to her killer.(JMO)

Personally, I'd do a search for Jane Doe's found after this date. Then I'd sort them by criteria such as the ones who are noted to have given birth, and the ones found in shallow graves. Then I'd separate them out by location and that is where I'd start my search for Baby Momma Doe.

shadowdancer
08-06-2014, 09:21 AM
Personally I think that the simplest explanations tend to be the most likely.

I think she was in an abusive relationship. He (as most abusive men do) cut her off from all of her support networks, such as family, friends etc. Therefore, they knew nothing about her or her life at that point. They hadn't heard from her in years and had no idea that she had a baby.

She managed to escape from him, or maybe they had an argument in the car and he threw her and the child out and drove off. Then one of the following scenarios occured -

1) She was very vulnerable, out alone at night with a small child and nobody to turn to. She would have been the perfect target for any passing murderers/rapists etc.

2) She would have been in total despair and may have decided to do a murder/suicide, as she thought it preferable to going back to her abusive partner.

3) Maybe the partner came after her and killed them both in a rage OR he threw the child into the river as a 'punishment' to the mother to show that he is the one who controls the situation and to make sure that she never disobeys him again.

carbuff
08-06-2014, 12:32 PM
What if she dove over the bridge with the baby in a desperate attempt to try to escape the murderer? I'm not sure which way the river flows, whether that would even be possible, and I haven't been able to find whether it's tidal at that point.

Riddle's story strikes me as false, too, though it might be designed to protect someone.

Truth might not change, but memories do.

traacker13
08-06-2014, 03:36 PM
Yes, the woman's body was never found and the baby was actually found miles away under a different bridge than the one the trucker claimed to have saw the body in the water from. I think, (and someone please correct me if I am wrong) but I think the trucker was the only person to ever report seeing the woman's body in the water? Also his story changed drastically when the reporter from the above article tracked him down years later? That raises suspicion with me, as the truth never changes.

It also makes me wonder if Riddle was telling the truth when he confessed to helping someone bury the mothers body, and him being the one that threw this baby from the bridge? Yes, I agree that people's minds can snap and make them do desperate things that they would normally never dream of doing, but this scenario as written, just does not ring true to me. (JMHO)

If I had to make a off the cuff assessment, or even a guess as to what really happened here, my guess would be this. The mother of this child is a runaway whose family never knew she had been pregnant or given birth. She was trapped in an abusive situation, maybe even with a trucker, and that night she got out of a vehicle to escape him. Naturally, she was feeling frightened so she was not going to get into a vehicle with anybody else. She most probably was feeling very desperate.I think the person she was running from caught up with her. I think he killed the mother, and Riddle helped him bury her. I think either Riddle, or the man Baby Momma Doe was running from threw that poor baby over the bridge. I think it was done for 2 reasons. One being to get rid of a baby he did not want, and who could tie him to the murder if the mothers body was ever found, and I think the baby being tossed from the bridge was a deliberate attempt to keep people from actually searching for the body of the mother. As long as people believed the body in the water story, then they would look no place else. I think it was done this way because to many people would have been able to tie the mother to her killer.(JMO)

Personally, I'd do a search for Jane Doe's found after this date. Then I'd sort them by criteria such as the ones who are noted to have given birth, and the ones found in shallow graves. Then I'd separate them out by location and that is where I'd start my search for Baby Momma Doe.

that seems to make a lot of sense to me - this is such a sad, sad case. I doubt they'll ever find who did this or who this is (although I hope beyond hope they do) I just think it's unlikely given the circumstances and likelihood that the child was probably never either known about or part of a family where the mother and child were being abused consistently without anyone's knowledge...

Still_Seek_Answers
08-07-2014, 04:49 AM
What if she dove over the bridge with the baby in a desperate attempt to try to escape the murderer? I'm not sure which way the river flows, whether that would even be possible, and I haven't been able to find whether it's tidal at that point.

Riddle's story strikes me as false, too, though it might be designed to protect someone.

Truth might not change, but memories do.

Yes, memories do change.....but I would think seeing a body in the river would be a traumatic enough memory to at least keep it consistent. This is JMHO but the story even told back then, makes no sense in my opinion. As I mentioned in a earlier post my dad drove truck for several years, and I have a brother who drives truck. Even back then truckers had this network among themselves. I just can't imagine him not pulling that truck over and getting LE there before he left the scene. Instead he drives to a truck stop and then calls in to report it. In my mind, that just makes no sense whatsoever. Then he can't be bothered until after he delivers his load? I am also still bothered by his description of what he saw.

It was sunrise, he was driving over a bridge, so he is in a moving vehicle and having to pay attention to the road, yet he focused in enough to tell that she was wearing a plaid shirt? Granted, I have never spotted a body while driving over a bridge, but I would think it would be hard to be that definite about what you saw. He did not say he saw something he thought might be a body.....he said he saw a body and she was wearing a plaid shirt.....sorry, but I just find that odd. I find all the parts of his story odd.

carbuff
08-07-2014, 11:43 AM
I wonder if while he was driving he saw a pile of clothes off the bridge, and then when he stopped he heard about the woman and realized he might have seen her body.

As the years go by, and a person revisits the event in their head, they tweak it. Maybe they make themselves more sure than they were, or more heroic, or push a detail here or there to make it sound more exciting, or to make the narrative more coherent. In this case he might be emphasizing the parts that say, "I didn't have anything to do with it, I just saw something and reported it."

I'm not sure the discrepancies aren't just differences in phrasing by someone who's not usually precise with language.

A practiced liar would not make those kinds of inconsistent statements. Ordinary people do.

SnoopyDawgDawg
08-07-2014, 12:39 PM
It appears that this article gives information that was not released when the baby Doe was found. The child had apparently not eaten all day long.

The grave digger drove west on interstate 10 through a chilly December drizzle. He slowed, peering at a figure laboring along the roadside. He wasn't the only one to spot her. CB radio channels were abuzz that night—Friday the third—with truckers’ reports of a woman carrying what looked like a barefoot, coatless toddler in her arms, walking near the truck scales at the Alabama-Mississippi line. The grave digger felt sorry for her. But in Pascagoula, Mississippi, in 1982, a black man simply didn’t invite a white woman into his vehicle, no matter how miserable the weather. Within days, a small body in a tiny casket would be buried under a donated, nameless stone, and the memory of that night would haunt him. - See more at: http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/summer2014/features/singing-river.html#sthash.9PrL0GPy.dpuf

Lynn Reuss is taunted by vivid dreams: in them, the woman is a runaway who, without her family’s knowledge, gives birth. She is fleeing something or someone, maybe an abusive partner. “Virgil said that the baby was partially smothered, possibly from being held too tightly. Maybe the mother thought her baby was dead” and, panicked, threw her over the bridge. “Did you know that the child had no food in her stomach, but appeared to be cared for? Another reason why I think the mom fled—no money, no blanket, no shoes or socks on the child, no coat or hat. If she had these things, they were lost somewhere along the way.” - See more at: http://www.tufts.edu/alumni/magazine/summer2014/features/singing-river.html#sthash.DnZiddn9.dpuf

Also from that article:


The next day, Moore went to the sheriff and the lead detective. “Can me and my wife have that baby?” The Moores signed some papers, and the body was theirs. “Don’t you call her Jane Doe,” his wife scolded. Moore helped pay for a flat granite marker with a ceramic vase, inscribed “Baby Jane” in block letters and, below, “Known only to God.” A pastor offered to lead the services. Four deputies served as pallbearers. A local paper reported more than two hundred attendees. “A lot of females, mothers boo-hooing,” Moore recalled. “It was a beautiful funeral.”

Baby Jane "Delta Dawn" Doe's find-a-grave page:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSsr=841&GScid=60897&GRid=41079827&

Still_Seek_Answers
08-07-2014, 01:16 PM
I wonder if while he was driving he saw a pile of clothes off the bridge, and then when he stopped he heard about the woman and realized he might have seen her body.

As the years go by, and a person revisits the event in their head, they tweak it. Maybe they make themselves more sure than they were, or more heroic, or push a detail here or there to make it sound more exciting, or to make the narrative more coherent. In this case he might be emphasizing the parts that say, "I didn't have anything to do with it, I just saw something and reported it."

I'm not sure the discrepancies aren't just differences in phrasing by someone who's not usually precise with language.

A practiced liar would not make those kinds of inconsistent statements. Ordinary people do.

I have to disagree with this: A practiced liar would not make those kinds of inconsistent statements. Ordinary people do. It is easier to forget a lie than it is to forget the truth, liars often forget the details they used, and that is most often how they get caught. I'm sire that he has tweaked his story a few times,but I still find the entire story questionable.

Still_Seek_Answers
08-07-2014, 01:21 PM
Yes Snoopydawgdawg, that bothers me too. This baby was apparently well cared for, yet she had not eaten that day? And she was not dressed for the weather in that area. That says to me, that either she jumped from a vehicle unexpectedly without baby doe's coat or blanket, or that she had not intended to be in that area. The fact that she was holding the baby that tight, that says to me she was afraid someone was going to take her away from her.

If the mothers body had been found then I might feel differently, but nothing in all these years? That makes me wonder if she was ever there.

Rainstorm
09-20-2014, 10:56 AM
Sad for this family. You would think after all this time, someone would have mentioned a mom and a baby missing. Or even searched...

Claireishere
10-03-2014, 01:57 AM
I'm from the area, I live in Mobile Alabama but I did drive back and forth to Biloxi for work and have lived in both Gulfport and Ocean Springs MS. There are a few things I think are note worthy about the area. Firstly south Mississippi is littered with Military bases and families. So the child possibly coming from another state and the family losing contact I think is a good possibility. Secondly regarding the lack of the mothers body it should be noted that 1-10 especially the route from Alabama to Mississippi is a lot of swamp land marsh area. With that you deal with Alligators which will easily dispose of bodies. Finally the area that I always thought the child was found at is in an area with few to no interstate exits for miles. Then the few exits that are available have nothing there but more road. No gas stations no houses etc and that's now in 2014 much less during that time period. The particular section I thought the child was found under is a bridge (that if you were on foot at night with a baby in your arms would seem like it never ended) it's narrow,shaky, and has no land in the center or on the sides. With it being December we have a different kind of cold here due to the humidity, it's a wet cold if that makes any sense. In December there are days where you can get by with a tshirt and jeans no problem but then when night comes even the heaviest thickest coat won't work. For me I have always thought the mom got in a fight with a man in a car and she got out on the interstate walking, angry, and hoping he would follow and makeup for it, she got herself in a bad situation and then when realized she was in a dangerous situation on the bridge jumped over with her child, in the dark she ended up losing the child in the water, she made it out and the child never did and to avoid prison time they just covered it up. Maybe I'm crazy but I think it's possible.