Possible Explanations for Inconsistencies in Case

[HeartofTexas]

I just got finished reading the entirety of the 13-page "Darlie Supporters and Darin Routier" and was once again reminded of some of the oddities about the events of that night. While reading everything, my mind started piecing together some of the oddities and came up the following possible explanation. I thought I would run it by you seasoned Darlie experts to see where the holes are (and I have a feeling there are many!).

Ignoring everything that happened prior to this point, my scenario begins as follows: Darlie thinks she has killed the two boys, goes about her other duties like possibly planting the sock, cutting the screen, etc., and then heads to the sink to cut her own neck. After cutting herself, she decides she needs to now head back over to the couch to lay down, since the story she's created involves her being attacked on the couch. On her way to the couch, from the kitchen, Darlie discovers that Damon is not yet dead. She panics and then starts struggling with him, is holding him down with her right arm and reaches for the knife with her left hand and begins stabbing him again. The only problem is, she isn't as handy with the knife in her left hand and accidentally stabs herself pretty deeply in the forearm (possibly to the bone, although reports seem to vary on this), at which point the unexpected pain causes her to scream out in agony. The scream awakens Darin, who comes flying downstairs in the nude. Upon realizing Darin is downstairs, Darlie quickly drops the knife on the carpet and acts like she's just discovered this gruesome scene herself. Darin sees Devon (but not Damon), quickly assesses that something heinous has just happened, and tells Darlie to call 911. At that point, Darin runs back upstairs to put on his pants, not wanting the police or paramedics to see him in the nude, and then runs back downstairs to help until the police, etc., arrive.

What could this possible scenario answer:

(1) Why were there two different stories on whether Darin was nude or wearing pants when he came downstairs.

(2) How did Darlie get the deep wound on her right arm.

(3) Why was Damon still alive when paramedics arrived

(4) How did the knife outline get on the carpet

(5) Why did Darin sound more visibly shaken on the 911 call, when Darlie only sounded hysterical in a phony way

(6) Why did Darlie not kill Damon before cutting herself.

(7) Why did Darlie stay away from Damon while awaiting the police.

(8) What awakened Darin.

(9) Why do we possibly hear Darin coming down the stairs in the 911 call.

IF, and obviously that's a big if, any of the above could be true, it would also explain why Darin is truly and visibly upset during the events that night but then pretty quickly (hours?) goes into defense of Darlie. In the beginning Darin would only have been operating out of pure shock at seeing the "killing field" and carnage that awaited him when he got downstairs. However, later, as he sat on the curb and even later saw Darlie still alive at the hospital, with varying degrees of superficial wounds and possibly life-threatening wounds, Darin could have realized Darlie was probably involved. At that point, I would imagine Darin went back to earlier events of that night, where there may have been a fight between them (there are so many reports of what went on that night prior to the murders that I truly don't know which one to pick... but for the sake of this story, I've picked the one where Darlie asks for a separation). Darin remembers Darlie saying she's going to leave him, and Darin, tired of all of Darlie's hysterical pronouncements, tells her that's fine... go ahead and leave me. Darlie, shocked at Darin actually saying it's okay for her to leave, has to up the ante so now says, "and I'll take the boys with me and you'll never see them again". Darin says there's no way she can keep the boys from her and storms off to bed angry and tired of all the fighting. As Darin remembers all of this, guilt starts to set in... and he remembers other recent events, like the recent time he came home from work and Darlie told him she wanted to kill herself, and he's reminded of how down and depressed she's been, etc. Darin feels like he's somehow contributed to what happened that night and makes a decision to defend her even though he knows she's most likely involved. At this point, though, he's already lost 2 sons... and the prospect of also losing his wife, and the mother of his remaining child, seems more than he can bear. So at that point, in his definitely scattered psyche, he makes a decision to defend her. From that point forward, the ball moves quickly and stories have to change on a dime to make everything work.

Have at it! LOL!

[Jeana (DP)]

Once upon a time I would have taken a great deal of time trying to answer this post! LOL Don't have that kinda time now and my givachitter is broken. So, I'll bottom line it for you:

The truth doesn't have versions and you don't have to have a good memory unless you're telling lies.

Its been plain since day one that Darlie (and Darin) have lied about just about everything from the state of their marriage to their finances to the events of that night. The only reason to lie about something is if you're guilty. The overwhelming evidence in this case tells the truth that Darlie and Darin won't tell. She's where she needs to be. He'll pay for what he's done too - maybe just not in this lifetime.

[HeartofTexas]

I agree with everything you said, Jeana! Once you start hearing the lies, everything you need to know is in front of you, so to speak.

And I certainly understand your givachitter being broken! I almost didn't bother with this thread because the crime happened so many years ago (9 years), and it's been tossed around endlessly, but I had so many unanswered questions late last night when I finished reading the 13 pages that I said I could do this thread today, if it was still on my mind.

I would have loved hearing your input because, after reading the 13 pages, you and some of the others had such incredible feedback and answers for RStJ that I was most impressed! But thanks for stopping in and at least offering your great sentence on truth and versions and memory and lies... that's a keeper! And, since I do think she's the one who committed the murders, and she's on Death Row, then justice has indeed been served. I would still love to know what really happened that night but, IMO, they both have too much at stake to ever tell the truth so I guess we'll never know.

[Jeana (DP)]

Well just for laughs, I think she accidentally stabbed herself in the arm and dropped the knife on the carpet when that happened. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I also think that Darlie stayed clear of Damon because in her mind if his blood wasn't on her, she could distance herself from stabbing him.

[Dani_T]

[font=Arial][size=2]Ignoring everything that happened prior to this point, my scenario begins as follows: Darlie thinks she has killed the two boys, goes about her other duties like possibly planting the sock, cutting the screen, etc., and then heads to the sink to cut her own neck. After cutting herself, she decides she needs to now head back over to the couch to lay down, since the story she's created involves her being attacked on the couch. On her way to the couch, from the kitchen, Darlie discovers that Damon is not yet dead. She panics and then starts struggling with him, is holding him down with her right arm and reaches for the knife with her left hand and begins stabbing him again. The only problem is, she isn't as handy with the knife in her left hand and accidentally stabs herself pretty deeply in the forearm (possibly to the bone, although reports seem to vary on this), at which point the unexpected pain causes her to scream out in agony. The scream awakens Darin, who comes flying downstairs in the nude. Upon realizing Darin is downstairs, Darlie quickly drops the knife on the carpet and acts like she's just discovered this gruesome scene herself. Darin sees Devon (but not Damon), quickly assesses that something heinous has just happened, and tells Darlie to call 911. At that point, Darin runs back upstairs to put on his pants, not wanting the police or paramedics to see him in the nude, and then runs back downstairs to help until the police, etc., arrive.

I also don't have a lot of time to reply at the moment but a couple of quick things.

Off the top of my head I don't see anything in the scenario above which could have been contradicted by the evidence itself- with the exception of
1) the knife impression/imprint showed that it had been held point downward long enough for blood to pool there before it was put down.
2) the knife had to end up on the countertop

Also, not sure how to take into account Darin's testimony but at trial he admantly denies being naked downstairs.


IF, and obviously that's a big if, any of the above could be true, it would also explain why Darin is truly and visibly upset during the events that night but then pretty quickly (hours?) goes into defense of Darlie. In the beginning Darin would only have been operating out of pure shock at seeing the "killing field" and carnage that awaited him when he got downstairs. However, later, as he sat on the curb and even later saw Darlie still alive at the hospital, with varying degrees of superficial wounds and possibly life-threatening wounds, Darin could have realized Darlie was probably involved. At that point, I would imagine Darin went back to earlier events of that night, where there may have been a fight between them (there are so many reports of what went on that night prior to the murders that I truly don't know which one to pick... but for the sake of this story, I've picked the one where Darlie asks for a separation). Darin remembers Darlie saying she's going to leave him, and Darin, tired of all of Darlie's hysterical pronouncements, tells her that's fine... go ahead and leave me. Darlie, shocked at Darin actually saying it's okay for her to leave, has to up the ante so now says, "and I'll take the boys with me and you'll never see them again". Darin says there's no way she can keep the boys from her and storms off to bed angry and tired of all the fighting. As Darin remembers all of this, guilt starts to set in... and he remembers other recent events, like the recent time he came home from work and Darlie told him she wanted to kill herself, and he's reminded of how down and depressed she's been, etc. Darin feels like he's somehow contributed to what happened that night and makes a decision to defend her even though he knows she's most likely involved. At this point, though, he's already lost 2 sons... and the prospect of also losing his wife, and the mother of his remaining child, seems more than he can bear. So at that point, in his definitely scattered psyche, he makes a decision to defend her. From that point forward, the ball moves quickly and stories have to change on a dime to make everything work.

I'm still of the mind that it is unlikely that Darin would have just changed his mind 'on a dime' (as goody says) and decide to defend the woman who had just murdered his kids- especially from a state of panic and shock like he was in. IF it did happen like that then I would expect that as the arrest happened and the trial took place Darin's feelings of guilt would receed in the face of Darlie's callousness. I still just don't see it. But I do think he covered for her as best he could - because he truly wanted to believe she was innocent.

[Goody]

The only thing I have to contribute is that the knife imprint was not near Damon's body location (where he died). So I think the knife imprint needs to be made sooner than you have it as would the wound to her arm since it is what supplied the blood to make the imprint. Also, let's not forget the bloody fingerprint on the end table behind the couch. She must have braced herself on that table somehow during the killings.

[cami]

I also don't have a lot of time to reply at the moment but a couple of quick things.

Off the top of my head I don't see anything in the scenario above which could have been contradicted by the evidence itself- with the exception of
1) the knife impression/imprint showed that it had been held point downward long enough for blood to pool there before it was put down.
2) the knife had to end up on the countertop

Also, not sure how to take into account Darin's testimony but at trial he admantly denies being naked downstairs.



I'm still of the mind that it is unlikely that Darin would have just changed his mind 'on a dime' (as goody says) and decide to defend the woman who had just murdered his kids- especially from a state of panic and shock like he was in. IF it did happen like that then I would expect that as the arrest happened and the trial took place Darin's feelings of guilt would receed in the face of Darlie's callousness. I still just don't see it. But I do think he covered for her as best he could - because he truly wanted to believe she was innocent.

I've stayed right out of these discussions as i don't know what to think of Darin. I had that vision one time that he came downstairs and he caught her at it but that was just a dream. Then there was the dream about the coat being thrown over me from behind. Could that symbolize Darin's hiding his head in the sand about Darlie's involvement I thought.

In the past few days listening once again to that 911 call, I hear Darin's shock and panic that you refer to. It doesn't help me though, I still don't know if he sussed her out right away or if he gradually came to the realization that Darlie did this and by the time of the trial he had decided to help her/lie for her.

[Jeana (DP)]

I don't believe Darin had anything to do with that night. I think Darlie did the entire thing all alone. She had ample time. I think Darin probably had plenty of "scams" that Darlie, et al could have nailed him for. Maybe they convinced him that Drake needed at least his father and I think that Darlie's family overwhelmed Darin and he doesn't have the spine to stand up for himself. I believe the combination of the two are what keeps his lips shut.

[HeartofTexas]

I agree, Jeana. I think Darin's biggest crime is covering for Darlie which required lying every opportunity he got (which, BTW, I think comes pretty easily for Darin).

[Jeana (DP)]

Beesy darlin, I realize that this case, especially after listening to the 911 tape over and over, its emotionally draining. However, I would seriously appreciate it if you wouldn't ever think that any of us regulars on this forum could possibly forget what those two beautiful boys went through. Quite frankly, its insulting.

[HeartofTexas]

Because I think "it's his only crime" as it relates to this crime. That's not to say he hasn't done other things that Darlie can hold over his head. Maybe it's buying and selling drugs, or maybe it's stealing from his clients, or who knows what. I think Darlie is holding something over him but I don't really have a clue what. I could also be totally wrong... it's just my opinion.

[Dani_T]

I don't believe Darin had anything to do with that night. I think Darlie did the entire thing all alone. She had ample time. I think Darin probably had plenty of "scams" that Darlie, et al could have nailed him for. Maybe they convinced him that Drake needed at least his father and I think that Darlie's family overwhelmed Darin and he doesn't have the spine to stand up for himself. I believe the combination of the two are what keeps his lips shut.

Good point about him being overwhelmed by the family... including his own when you look at Sarilda's involvement.

[Dani_T]

[b][color=darkred]Then why is Darin covering for her if that's his only crime? Why did he allow Damon to die? He had 15 mins. or so, maybe more, to figure out Devon was really dead, but that Damon was still barely hanging on.

No he didn't Beesy - he had around 5 minutes maximum before the paramedics arrived. He says he treated Devon for 2-4 of those minutes. He also claims to have gone to Damon (conflicting stories what he did there) and to have gone upstairs all before Waddell arrived at 3 minutes into the call. He went to Devon because he thought it was Devon who was injured when he first came down. Where did you get the 15 minutes from?

Darin's excuse is that he ran to get Karen, the nurse. I think he was caught outside(Goody's theory) so had to say something about Karen.

Well with all due respect to you and Goody I just don't see any evidence for that (let alone the time for him to do it between his voice stamps on 911).

When he actually did go get her, he didn't need a nurse. I know what was said in testimony. Actually that backs up my theory. If he ran to get them for comfort or to help with the baby, I would feel ok about it. Karen ended up taking care of that rat-like dog and Drake.

If you haven't read my replies to Goody in the last few days please do so. There was ample reason for Darin to want Karen on the scene when he did.

Terry ended up driving Darin to the hospital, not much nursey stuff there.

Terry is not a nurse. I don't get your point here?

Why didn't either of Damon's parents hold him as died? Even if there was nothing they could do to save him, why did they let him just lie there? He lived about 8-9 mins after the fatal wound, that's a loooooong time to lie there and not be hugged. Darin likes to say that because the EMTs were there, he assumed they were helping Damon. The medics did NOT get there until after Darlie finally got off the bloody phone(5:39). There was lots of time after the fatal wound for his parents to help him. That alone is more of an issue than many of the other things. You cannot overlook that.

You are entirely justified saying that about Darlie but I don't know how you can say it about Darin. Darin has come downstairs and all everything he learns about what has happened is by listening to Darlie on the 911 call. If you listen to the call Darlie makes it clear at times Damon is alive- even if just barely. Darin on the other hand can't get a pulse out of Devon. If you have one child who IS alive and one who isn't which one are you going to try and revive? Especially when you think you have a wife who is going to aid the other one (even if she doesn't do that ultimately). If Darin had simply shrugged his shoulders about Devon and gone over to Damon we'd all be yelling 'why didn't you try and revive Devon! He was dead! Damon was alive!".

Could you stand there screaming like a banshee about your now barely bleeding throat and NOT hold your child? Even if that's all they did, that is plenty for me to see their guilt!

No- there is plenty to see HER guilt. The evidence tells us that. There is no physical evidence at all that puts the knife in Darin's hand or has him as a accomplice in this. The only speculation you can make is because of his contradicting testimony.

If Darin was just covering for Darlie, he would have done more for Damon. The time period that they had to just comfort him was way too long to be ignored. It upsets me that ya'll think all Darin did was cover for her. You're not factoring in the time zone that Damon had to have been stabbed the last time after Darin came down because that poor child lived for all those mins.

No Bessy he didn't. Damon could have lived for 8-9 minutes from the fatal wounds. Put 6 minutes into the 911 call and the arrival of the paramedics and you have 2-3 minutes BEFORE Darin came down when Damon could have received the fatal stabs.

I understand your emotional reaction to all of this- we would all be blocks of stone if at times we didn't weep for those boys. But you need to get your evidence and chronology right and don't assume that those of us who believe Darin was innocent of any part IN the crime don't realise the horror of what happened, or take it seriously. And please don't also forget that whilst Damon was murdered so was little Devon. He had just as much right to be held and cared for as Damon.

[Jeana (DP)]

And, while Darin was supposedly "covered" in blood . . .
Darlie only had a few drops.
I tend to believe someone trying to help the boys would have been covered.
Its always been a HUGE sticking point with me that she didn't have more blood on her.

[Mary456]

And, while Darin was supposedly "covered" in blood . . .
Darlie only had a few drops.
I tend to believe someone trying to help the boys would have been covered.
Its always been a HUGE sticking point with me that she didn't have more blood on her.

It's always been a big sticking point for me, too, DP. While Darlie had a lot of blood on her shirt, it was almost all her own (except for those pesky little ones on the shoulder & back area). Had she held those boys, tried to comfort them, tried to put pressure on their wounds, their blood would have been present on the body of her shirt.

I believe they took around 25 samples from the front of her t-shirt, and none of them belonged to the boys. The Darlies say they should have tested every millimeter of blood on it, as well as every millimeter of blood in the entire house. I say...if they did that, Darlie would still be sitting in a Dallas jail, plotting revenge because her right to a speedy trial was violated.

[beesy]

No he didn't Beesy - he had around 5 minutes maximum before the paramedics arrived. He says he treated Devon for 2-4 of those minutes. He also claims to have gone to Damon (conflicting stories what he did there) and to have gone upstairs all before Waddell arrived at 3 minutes into the call. He went to Devon because he thought it was Devon who was injured when he first came down. Where did you get the 15 minutes from?I was going on my theory that Darin came downstairs earlier than he says he did. You're believing Darin's timeline and I'm not. Do you know exactly when this started?You're going on the assumption that Darin is saying what really happened. You're trusting that he really did give CPR that whole time to Devon. I've looked at the pix of Devon and I don't see any handprints or smears on his chest, do you? And yes, I know he says he checked on Damon and heard him sort of gasping.

[QUOTE]If you haven't read my replies to Goody in the last few days please do so. There was ample reason for Darin to want Karen on the scene when he did.
I have read them, I disagree with most of it
And ample reason for him to not go at that moment, that instant, that second!

Terry is not a nurse. I don't get your point here?I know Terry is not a nurse! I was just saying what Karen and Terry ended up doing.


You are entirely justified saying that about Darlie but I don't know how you can say it about Darin. Darin has come downstairs and all everything he learns about what has happened is by listening to Darlie on the 911 call. If you listen to the call Darlie makes it clear at times Damon is alive- even if just barely. Darin on the other hand can't get a pulse out of Devon. If you have one child who IS alive and one who isn't which one are you going to try and revive? Especially when you think you have a wife who is going to aid the other one (even if she doesn't do that ultimately). If Darin had simply shrugged his shoulders about Devon and gone over to Damon we'd all be yelling 'why didn't you try and revive Devon! He was dead! Damon was alive!".
I guess I missed the part of the story where Damon died in father's arms. I hate when I skip whole chapters like that. I would not have fussed about him saving Damon. Devon was beyond dead. His eyes were open, dani, is he going to live? no! I lost a child and there is no way he would have been lying there on the floor like that. How can you excuse that?! Ok, let's say Darin didn't do anything wrong. Don't you think Damon was alone and dying or does that not fit into your theory? Even if it was just a min.



No- there is plenty to see HER guilt. The evidence tells us that. There is no physical evidence at all that puts the knife in Darin's hand or has him as a accomplice in this. The only speculation you can make is because of his contradicting testimony. I am not saying Darin murdered the boys. I never have ever! ever! ever! I believe Darin helped her. If you don't whatever..who cares?
No Bessy he didn't. Damon could have lived for 8-9 minutes from the fatal wounds. Put 6 minutes into the 911 call and the arrival of the paramedics and you have 2-3 minutes BEFORE Darin came down when Damon could have received the fatal stabs

Phone call is 5:39, not 6, check your facts Again, you're assuming Darin is telling the truth about where he was. I'm assuming he's lying. And is there a reason you called me BESSY? The timeline you have you here is confusing. ok so you're saying Damon was stabbed and then all that other stuff happened within 8 or 9 mins? I have the same facts and timelines. I'm just looking at it a different way, which is my right.


I understand your emotional reaction to all of this- we would all be blocks of stone if at times we didn't weep for those boys. But you need to get your evidence and chronology right and don't assume that those of us who believe Darin was innocent of any part IN the crime don't realise the horror of what happened, or take it seriously. And please don't also forget that whilst Damon was murdered so was little Devon. He had just as much right to be held and cared for as Damon.I do have my facts right! I just choose not to believe everything that comes out of Darin's mouth. We are simply looking at them in different ways. And I'll say it again, I never said I felt you ignored the boys. It was an in general thing. None of you have the right to attack me like this either. I'm sure Jeana will ban me now. You know it doesn't hurt to get another person's opinion.

[Goody]

Well with all due respect to you and Goody I just don't see any evidence for that (let alone the time for him to do it between his voice stamps on 911)..
Actually it is not my theory. I picked it up from another forum. I have never tried to compare it to the 911 call though, so you may be correct that it could not have happened that way.




If you haven't read my replies to Goody in the last few days please do so. There was ample reason for Darin to want Karen on the scene when he did..
It would have made more sense if he had gone after her before police arrived. Or even before the ambulances arrived, but once they did, his need for additional help starts losing ground. His focus should have been on his children, not his friends. It is the same thing the Ramseys did that make me distrust them.






Yo

u are entirely justified saying that about Darlie but I don't know how you can say it about Darin. Darin has come downstairs and all everything he learns about what has happened is by listening to Darlie on the 911 call. If you listen to the call Darlie makes it clear at times Damon is alive- even if just barely. Darin on the other hand can't get a pulse out of Devon. If you have one child who IS alive and one who isn't which one are you going to try and revive? Especially when you think you have a wife who is going to aid the other one (even if she doesn't do that ultimately). If Darin had simply shrugged his shoulders about Devon and gone over to Damon we'd all be yelling 'why didn't you try and revive Devon! He was dead! Damon was alive!"..
I think Darin would have a stronger argument if we could hear him telling her to bring him towels, not to wet them, asking if Damon was okay, etc. It is hard to believe him without any supporting evidence in his favor at all.




No- there is plenty to see HER guilt. The evidence tells us that. There is no physical evidence at all that puts the knife in Darin's hand or has him as a accomplice in this. The only speculation you can make is because of his contradicting testimony..
Well, that and the fact that he doesn't act like a grieving father. After their deaths, Darin seems to be focused on how to profit from them. He openly discusses with people how big their story is going to be, how Darlie is going to write the story so they can cut the middleman out and make more money for themselves, etc. I would have liked to see the D.A. put more of these witnesses on the stand. Only two days after Darlie's arrest, Darin and Darlie Kee (probably at the request of Darin) sign a deal to have their story shopped and shortly after that they sell away the rights (as if totally defeating the purpose) to CWB who just happens to be living with Sarilda and family. The big money plans were dashed by the conviction but if she ever wins an appeal and gets out or gets a new trial and is acquitted, you can bet your bottom dollar that everybody gets a piece of that pie. Just as you say that there is enough known to support Darin wanting to get a nurse friend on the scene, I say there is enough information to support "money" as the motive and a not so regular way of getting it. Maybe it is far out for your run of the mill young parents, but I am not so sure it is that far out for a a couple of entreapeneurs who typically take risks.



I understand your emotional reaction to all of this- we would all be blocks of stone if at times we didn't weep for those boys. But you need to get your evidence and chronology right and don't assume that those of us who believe Darin was innocent of any part IN the crime don't realise the horror of what happened, or take it seriously. And please don't also forget that whilst Damon was murdered so was little Devon. He had just as much right to be held and cared for as Damon.
I'll let you guys do the emotion thing as it applies to who should remember the boys' pain that night. I would like to address the lack of emotional response both Darlie and Darin gave the children though. I think Beesy is right about that. Neither tried to comfort their dead children, esp Damon. Darin even tells us that while the paramedics are waiting to come in, just seconds before they do, Darin slips over to Damon and tried to take his pulse, then feeling the boy has none goes back to Devon whom he already knows is beyond help. His description makes me think he slipped over to Damon when Waddell and Walling were not looking to see if Damon was still alive or not. He didn't want them to save the boy. It seems to me if he wanted them to save him, once he knew he couldn't help Devon, the natural choice would have been to go help Damon. He knew by then that Darlie wasn't doing it and there was no one else to do but him. Instead he just tries his pulse and goes O, well, and then goes back to where he was sitting before. That does not paint an image of a concerned parent to me. If he was innocent, that might suggest that he had figured out who did it by then and wanted to know how bad the damages were. If he was guilty, that might suggest that he wanted to make sure that Damon couldn't tell anyone what had happened.

And why does a guy who studied first aid for 7 years in a row, perform CPR on one child and not the other? Why didn't he cry out that Damon had no pulse? To get the paramedics in there?

[Dani_T]

First off- if you see our discussion on here as an attack then you have very think skin Beesy. Need I remind you that I have gone out of my way to assist you in the last few days? I've sent you wav files 3-4 times, I've attempted to respond to all your posts.

We all discuss on here and yes we sometimes disagree with each other. I've just written an extensive post to Goody disagreeing with her quite strongly but I seriously doubt she is going to throw a temper tantrum and accuse me of attacking her.



You're trusting that he really did give CPR that whole time to Devon. I've looked at the pix of Devon and I don't see any handprints or smears on his chest, do you?

Devon was attended by Paramedic Koschak as well. He was moved and all his vital signs were checked. Do you see the signs of his rendering aid? If you are expecting to see a clear handprint in blood on Devon's chest then you won't find it. I doubt it would ever be as clear cut as that.

And ample reason for him to not go at that moment, that instant, that second!

What were they? What could he be doing? Standing around doing nothing whilst the paramedics were trying to revive Damon and aid Darlie. What would you have him doing?

I guess I missed the part of the story where Damon died in father's arms. I hate when I skip whole chapters like that. I would not have fussed about him saving Damon. Devon was beyond dead. His eyes were open, dani, is he going to live? no! I lost a child and there is no way he would have been lying there on the floor like that. How can you excuse that?! Ok, let's say Darin didn't do anything wrong. Don't you think Damon was alone and dying or does that not fit into your theory? Even if it was just a min.

No father is just going to shurg his shoulders and say "Oh well he is dead" within a 3-4 minute period.

And yes I do think Damon was alone and dying- because his mother who killed him didn't want him to survive and wasn't going to aid him. I believe his father was in a state of desperation and was trying to breathe air into his oldest sons lungs and desperately trying to get his wife to help his middle son.

Phone call is 5:39, not 6, check your facts ... The timeline you have you here is confusing. ok so you're saying Damon was stabbed and then all that other stuff happened within 8 or 9 mins? I have the same facts and timelines. I'm just looking at it a different way, which is my right.[/quote]

My facts are right. The phone call was short of 6 minutes but the paramedics were not in the house before the phone call ended. In fact I doubt Walling was in the house before the phone call ended (and my doubt is based on an extensive amount of work I put in a while ago to getting the time line right). You'll notice my words were Put 6 minutes into the 911 call and the arrival of the paramedics.

I am working on the premise that Damon was stabbed initially, did not die, Darlie attacked him again before the 911 call and thats when the 8-9 minutes starts.

And is there a reason you called me BESSY?

Oh good grief!!!!! It was a typo. If you read my posts you will find they are full of them!. I don't have the time or energy to correct them.

I'm sure Jeana will ban me now. You know it doesn't hurt to get another person's opinion. [/color]

We are not all out to get you! Geesh, the politness of this board is nothing compared to the knock out drag out battles we have had at other boards.

[beesy]

Dani
My facts are right. The phone call was short of 6 minutes but the paramedics were not in the house before the phone call ended. In fact I doubt Walling was in the house before the phone call ended (and my doubt is based on an extensive amount of work I put in a while ago to getting the time line right). You'll notice my words were Put 6 minutes into the 911 call and the arrival of the paramedics.

I am working on the premise that Damon was stabbed initially, did not die, Darlie attacked him again before the 911 call and thats when the 8-9 minutes starts .
[/QUOTE] I know that the paramedics came to the house AFTER she hung up the phone. I've said that many times. Waddel and Walling did a cursory search and then told the EMT's they could come in. Darlie was not on the phone anymore. I've known that. Did I say something different? If so, it was just scattered brains because I've always known. I'm working on the premise that Damon was stabbed and survived, then she did her thing, called 911 cause most likely she thought she was bleeding to death. I'm sure she thought Damon was dead. I think she sees him crawling while on the phone with 911 she killed him then. So I'm starting my 8-9 mins from there. Doesn't mean it's wrong, as you said its a discussion. Doesn't mean my timeline is wrong or my facts are wrong. It's just a theory. Nobody but Darlie and Darin know. I am just saying what makes sense to me and you're saying what makes sense to you. So why are you saying I don't have the facts? Waddell comes in at 3:42, time is tick tock tick tock...he guards the house instead of helping the victims. He's doing his job. She finally gets off that dang phone, Walling arrives somewhere in there and they do a quick search and call the paramedics in. Meanwhile the 8-9 min clock is tick tock tick tock. He rushes in just in time for Damon to die.That's my timeline and from everything I've read from here, all 4 books, well 3 really, Chris' is not a book, and the website, I feel mine can work. I think your theory is pushing it if she stabbed him before she called 911, especially if you agree she was off the phone before the medics got there. Not that it couldn't happen, its just a tight squeeze.

[Dani_T]

Actually it is not my theory. I picked it up from another forum. I have never tried to compare it to the 911 call though, so you may be correct that it could not have happened that way.

I'll have to check but from memory I thnk I worked out that the longest break between Darins voice before Waddell arrived is about 30 seconds.


It would have made more sense if he had gone after her before police arrived. Or even before the ambulances arrived, but once they did, his need for additional help starts losing ground. His focus should have been on his children, not his friends. It is the same thing the Ramseys did that make me distrust them.

He did got to get Karen before the police arrived. He met Waddell outside and went back in with him. And unless the place was swarming with paramedics before he went to get Karen (which it was not- there were only two) he still needed help. I don't think his focus was on his friends- but ingetting help for his family. There was nothing he could be doing for them once the paramedics arrived- but he could get them more help.

I think Darin would have a stronger argument if we could hear him telling her to bring him towels, not to wet them, asking if Damon was okay, etc. It is hard to believe him without any supporting evidence in his favor at all.

Well there is a lot on the call from him which we can't hear. Most of his is laballed 'unintelligible'. I do hear him yelling for her to get somebody (sounding impatient) and to 'get in here'. As for the towels I don't remember his testifying to ever actually using them (might be wrong). What is clear is that what we can make out from him is supporting rather than accusatory.


Neither tried to comfort their dead children, esp Damon. Darin even tells us that while the paramedics are waiting to come in, just seconds before they do, Darin slips over to Damon and tried to take his pulse, then feeling the boy has none goes back to Devon whom he already knows is beyond help. His description makes me think he slipped over to Damon when Waddell and Walling were not looking to see if Damon was still alive or not. He didn't want them to save the boy. It seems to me if he wanted them to save him, once he knew he couldn't help Devon, the natural choice would have been to go help Damon. He knew by then that Darlie wasn't doing it and there was no one else to do but him. Instead he just tries his pulse and goes O, well, and then goes back to where he was sitting before.

Where do you get that he shrugged and went back to Devon? According to his vol statement and his testimony he checked on Devon
24 hanging on at that time.
25 A. Yes, sir. Damon was laying on his
1 stomach, and he was laying along the wall.
2 Q. Why didn't you roll him over, and
3 start CPR on him?
4 A. Because I was always taught that if
5 you have a back injury, you are not supposed to roll them
6 over, because you could make the injuries worse.
7 Q. Okay.
8 A. I tried to see if I could get a pulse,
9 but I couldn't get anything. But by that time, people
10 were starting to pile into the house.



And why does a guy who studied first aid for 7 years in a row, perform CPR on one child and not the other? Why didn't he cry out that Damon had no pulse? To get the paramedics in there?
He was crying out to get help- to get somebody. It's on the call. Also see above for a reason perhaps why he did not perform CPR on Damon

[Dani_T]

.
I'm working on the premise that Damon was stabbed and survived, then she did her thing, called 911 cause most likely she thought she was bleeding to death. I'm sure she thought Damon was dead. I think she sees him crawling while on the phone with 911 she killed him then. So I'm starting my 8-9 mins from there. Doesn't mean it's wrong, as you said its a discussion.

Yes, it is a theory. But I don't see from the 911 call how it happens. You dont carry on as normal on the phone as she did whilst stabbing your child. In fact I don't see how you could still be holding the phone whilst holding your child down and stabbing him.

That's just my opinion.


I think your theory is pushing it if she stabbed him before she called 911, especially if you agree she was off the phone before the medics got there. Not that it couldn't happen, its just a tight squeeze.
Tight perhaps - but still with a minute or two left over.

I'm sorry for being a brat, but I felt really stupid and hurt. I felt I wrote something from the heart and it was misunderstood and I was embarrassed. [/b][/color]

There is no need to feel hurt. We all disagree with each other on here all the time. And we all misunderstand each other all the time to (for example you have misunderstood a few things I have said on this thread).

Just don't take it so personally in the future because we really are not out to get you or anyone else.

[Jeana (DP)]

_________________
First of all I said "forgive me if I sound blunt"...and secondlyI was referring to everybody in general, including myself. I didn't even say the people on this forum. That is very insulting to me that you assume I was attacking ya'll. Totally floored me! I suppose since you're the moderator you can say things rude to me, but I'll get banned. If I'd meant the people on here, I would have named names. I'm not shy. We've all talked about this before..how the boys have become less important than Darlie. If you misunderstood my statement and were insulted, hope you have it straight now. I think you owe me an apology, but I won't hold my breath. In fact I guess I should start packing up.


Give me a break Beesy.

[beesy]

Give me a break Beesy.
:razz: Just had to do that. Now that's out of my system :truce:


beesy is going shopping for thicker skin. I think Wal-Mart sells it.

[Mary456]

:razz: Just had to do that. Now that's out of my system :truce:


beesy is going shopping for thicker skin. I think Wal-Mart sells it.

They do. It's in the same aisle as the glop you use to waterproof your basement :)))))

[beesy]

They do. It's in the same aisle as the glop you use to waterproof your basement :))))) too close to sea level here, we don't have basements. must keep looking.....Plus beesy was looking for something not so so close to glop:)

[beesy]

[QUOTE=Dani_T]Yes, it is a theory. But I don't see from the 911 call how it happens. You dont carry on as normal on the phone as she did whilst stabbing your child. In fact I don't see how you could still be holding the phone whilst holding your child down and stabbing him.
Well, Darlie wasn't chatting with a girlfriend about a movie they saw. And she wasn't acting normal, Darlie normal or anybody normal. Maybe it is more my heart than my head telling me this, but I truly believe she gave him that final fatal wound while on the phone. Darlie is not normal. Its hard for us to look at things the same way she and Darin do, we aren't like that(hopefully)! With a case like this you must try to think as Darlie did and Darin too. IMO

Tight perhaps - but still with a minute or two left over.

I know you don't like my theory, but do you think it could happen? I think yours could as I said, tight, but I think it could. Do you think mine could work? I mean I know you have a problem with when I think the final stab took place and how much Darin was involved. I think he was very involved, but I can step back and look at your theory and I think it could work. Don't think that's what happened, but it could work


There is no need to feel hurt. We all disagree with each other on here all the time. And we all misunderstand each other all the time to (for example you have misunderstood a few things I have said on this thread).

Just don't take it so personally in the future because we really are not out to get you or anyone else.Ok thak you.....:blowkiss:

[beesy]

Yes, it is a theory. But I don't see from the 911 call how it happens. You dont carry on as normal on the phone as she did whilst stabbing your child. In fact I don't see how you could still be holding the phone whilst holding your child down and stabbing him
Did she have to hold him down? I don't know how active he was at that point. Where there any bruises on his back or arms? As long and as confusing that call was, she could have easily put the phone right as she stabbed him. If she kept it close then we'd still hear her
What were they? What could he be doing? Standing around doing nothing whilst the paramedics were trying to revive Damon and aid Darlie. What would you have him doing?I think all I want Darin to be doing is trying to get in as close to the boy as the paramedics would let him. Touch him, tell him he loved him. Say that to Devon too. He was dead, but maybe he could still hear. He didn't even ask about the boys at the hospital, where had they been taken, was Devon still at home..? When my son died, I wanted to know every second where he was. It was heartbreaking when I found out he'd been taken by the coroner already. Why didn't he ask?


[QUOTE]
And yes I do think Damon was alone and dying- because his mother who killed him didn't want him to survive and wasn't going to aid him.
Yes, but thank goodness the paramedic held him, funny name can't remember.

You say all Darin did was cover for her? So do you mean just by running his mouth or that he helped wipe up blood, tossing pillows around, or you think he didn't do any of that.

[accordn2me]

I just got finished reading the entirety of the 13-page "Darlie Supporters and Darin Routier" and was once again reminded of some of the oddities about the events of that night. While reading everything, my mind started piecing together some of the oddities and came up the following possible explanation. I thought I would run it by you seasoned Darlie experts to see where the holes are (and I have a feeling there are many!).

Ignoring everything that happened prior to this point, my scenario begins as follows: Darlie thinks she has killed the two boys, goes about her other duties like possibly planting the sock, cutting the screen, etc., and then heads to the sink to cut her own neck. After cutting herself, she decides she needs to now head back over to the couch to lay down, since the story she's created involves her being attacked on the couch. On her way to the couch, from the kitchen, Darlie discovers that Damon is not yet dead. She panics and then starts struggling with him, is holding him down with her right arm and reaches for the knife with her left hand and begins stabbing him again. The only problem is, she isn't as handy with the knife in her left hand and accidentally stabs herself pretty deeply in the forearm (possibly to the bone, although reports seem to vary on this), at which point the unexpected pain causes her to scream out in agony. The scream awakens Darin, who comes flying downstairs in the nude. Upon realizing Darin is downstairs, Darlie quickly drops the knife on the carpet and acts like she's just discovered this gruesome scene herself. Darin sees Devon (but not Damon), quickly assesses that something heinous has just happened, and tells Darlie to call 911. At that point, Darin runs back upstairs to put on his pants, not wanting the police or paramedics to see him in the nude, and then runs back downstairs to help until the police, etc., arrive.

What could this possible scenario answer:

(1) Why were there two different stories on whether Darin was nude or wearing pants when he came downstairs.

(2) How did Darlie get the deep wound on her right arm.

(3) Why was Damon still alive when paramedics arrived

(4) How did the knife outline get on the carpet

(5) Why did Darin sound more visibly shaken on the 911 call, when Darlie only sounded hysterical in a phony way

(6) Why did Darlie not kill Damon before cutting herself.

(7) Why did Darlie stay away from Damon while awaiting the police.

(8) What awakened Darin.

(9) Why do we possibly hear Darin coming down the stairs in the 911 call.

IF, and obviously that's a big if, any of the above could be true, it would also explain why Darin is truly and visibly upset during the events that night but then pretty quickly (hours?) goes into defense of Darlie. In the beginning Darin would only have been operating out of pure shock at seeing the "killing field" and carnage that awaited him when he got downstairs. However, later, as he sat on the curb and even later saw Darlie still alive at the hospital, with varying degrees of superficial wounds and possibly life-threatening wounds, Darin could have realized Darlie was probably involved. At that point, I would imagine Darin went back to earlier events of that night, where there may have been a fight between them (there are so many reports of what went on that night prior to the murders that I truly don't know which one to pick... but for the sake of this story, I've picked the one where Darlie asks for a separation). Darin remembers Darlie saying she's going to leave him, and Darin, tired of all of Darlie's hysterical pronouncements, tells her that's fine... go ahead and leave me. Darlie, shocked at Darin actually saying it's okay for her to leave, has to up the ante so now says, "and I'll take the boys with me and you'll never see them again". Darin says there's no way she can keep the boys from her and storms off to bed angry and tired of all the fighting. As Darin remembers all of this, guilt starts to set in... and he remembers other recent events, like the recent time he came home from work and Darlie told him she wanted to kill herself, and he's reminded of how down and depressed she's been, etc. Darin feels like he's somehow contributed to what happened that night and makes a decision to defend her even though he knows she's most likely involved. At this point, though, he's already lost 2 sons... and the prospect of also losing his wife, and the mother of his remaining child, seems more than he can bear. So at that point, in his definitely scattered psyche, he makes a decision to defend her. From that point forward, the ball moves quickly and stories have to change on a dime to make everything work.

Have at it! LOL!

:clap: All from reading 13 pages. It takes me forever to wrap my head around this and as soon as I have to deal with other things, I have to start all over. :confused: You naturals are lucky.

I've always believed Darin made at least two trips downstairs - one nude, then in jeans.

Your idea about the knife being in her left hand, then being placed on the carpet is supported in the transcripts - indirectly, I believe. I'm too sore and tired to find the link. If memory serves me correctly, Mulder adds support to the prosecution's theory in his closing (could have been before closing). Is Darin right-handed or left-handed?

Now, about the neck slicing...you think she did that at the sink...why? Think about that necklace embedded in her neck - look at how high up the incision starts on her neck.

What about the bruises? Do you think she did that without help?

[HeartofTexas]

Accordn2me, I think she sliced her neck at the sink for 2 reasons. One, there wasn't blood on the couch, which surely there would have been some if she had cut her neck there. Secondly, I don't think she would have needed to make up the part about wetting the towels in the sink if she hadn't feared her own blood would be found there.

And yes, I think Darlie's bruising (on the arms) was done after the fact and by Darlie. I think Darlie pretty much did things as she went along and saw a need to either add or substract things relating to what happened that night.

[accordn2me]

The necklace embedded in the wound makes me doubt that she cut her own throat.

About blood on the couch:

K. Long:

16 Q. All right. And can you tell us what
17 blood samples that you obtained out there on June 11th?
18 A. I collected three from the carpet.
25 A. One from a chair, it appears.



16 A. And then also, took one sample from
17 one couch in the family room, and also three samples from
18 another couch in the family room.
19 Q. All right. Now, the couch where you
20 took the one sample, is that the couch closest to the

21 windows facing the back yard?
22 A. Yes, sir.

23 Q. Okay. The other three, would they be
24 from the couch that is nearest to the kitchen area?
25 A. Yes, sir, that's correct.

Judith Floyd:

25 Q. Now, did you do any testing on the
1 maroon pillow?
2 A. On the pillow case, yes.
3 Q. Okay. That was maroon in color?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Okay. And the results of that were
6 what?
7 A. I had three stains from the pillow
8 case, one stain matched Damon Routier, two matched Darlie
9 Routier.
10 Q. Okay. Those were on opposite sides of
11 that pillow, weren't they?
12 A. I don't know. I did not cut the
13 stains from the pillow case.
14 Q. Okay. So you can't tell where they
15 originated?
16 A. Right.

Carolyn Van Winkle:

2 Q. On the couch here, items 52, 53 and
3 54?
4 A. Darlie.
5 Q. The two samples here on the cut out
6 carpet behind this couch?
7 A. Darlie.
8 Q. The two samples here on the carpet by
9 the chair?
10 A. Darlie.
11 Q. Again, on the carpet near the chair,
12 105s?
13 A. I don't believe I tested those, but
14 those --
15 Q. -- reflect Darlie also?
16 A. Reflect Darlie.

[Jeana (DP)]

The necklace embedded in the wound makes me doubt that she cut her own throat.



I watched a television program about a woman whose husband stabbed her like 50 times. She said she didn't even feel it due to the adrenaline pumping in her system. For anyone who thinks that it would hurt too much for her to do this to herself, I would point them to stories like that one. I can imagine that the stress of what Darlie did in a few minutes' time that evening would have provided her with enough adrenaline so as to make it virtually painfree - at least long enough.

[accordn2me]

No, it's not the pain that gives me pause. It's the necklace.

Look at where the wound starts on her neck. A long necklace doesn't hang there. If Darlie cut her own throat, my guess is she was lying down. I just don't see getting the necklace embedded in the wound if she was standing when the cut was made.

Do you know if Darin is right-handed or left-handed?

[Jeana (DP)]

No, it's not the pain that gives me pause. It's the necklace.

Look at where the wound starts on her neck. A long necklace doesn't hang there. If Darlie cut her own throat, my guess is she was lying down. I just don't see getting the necklace embedded in the wound if she was standing when the cut was made.

Do you know if Darin is right-handed or left-handed?


It could have been picked up by the knife and dragged along the wound getting tangled, but I see what you're trying to say. Its just my opinion that Darin didn't do it or it would have been way worse.

I'm not sure if he's right or left handed. Someone else probably knows!! ;)

[Goody]

The blood found on the couches was not found where she laid. On the couch where she laid, Damon's blood was found near the foot, I believe. The pillows you mentioned were on the floor, I think. Admittedly it has been a while, but she couldn't have been bleeding as she laid or even as she jumped up and struggled with attackers as she claims in her hynosis report.

Even if you believe her neck wound wasn't bleeding yet or if you buy the notion that the skin overlapped the thin slice preventing it from bleeding, you have that arm wound that was dripping blood everywhere. Any movement should have sent droplets from that arm flying or just plain dripping downward or smearing across the vinyl. You can see in the photos that the blood on the sofas is on the ends and the bottom portion (kick area), not on the back or cushions, not on her pillow, though I think they might have found one drop on her pillow. One drop just isn't enough for wounds that made the mess hers did in that house. You have to remember that the boys were not mobile so 90% of the blood there is hers.

And she stood for a long time at that sink doing something. We know that because her arm bled drop on top of drop all over the floor there.

[Goody]

Do you know if Darin is right-handed or left-handed?
I think they are both right handed. Seems to me it came up at trial. You might check his testimony.

But I don't think it matters that much. The cut slopes downward just like self inflicted neck wounds do. She could have used either hand to make the cut. Where there is a will there is a way. She would not have had to hold the knife in the traditional way by the handle. She could have turned it in whatever direction, on whatever angle she thought would make people think she could not have done it. Sometimes things seem to make perfect sense until you do them and look back, only to say "that was dumb." I don't think you will be able to come up with anything that is going to show that she could not have cut herself.

Personally, I think the only thing that surprised her about that cut was that it went so deep so fast. She was probably trying to create a slash because that is the only thing she felt comfortable with attempting, and because she felt it would be enough to prove her "innocence." That downward slope works against her though. Most of those who tried it before her seem to have the same downward slope.

[accordn2me]

Do you have necklace sorta like the one Darlie was wearing? I think it was one of those gold S chains about 16" long. Who knows? I'm assuming it had some type of pendant on it...again, does anyone know for sure? Anyway, try it: hang something similar around your neck. See where it hangs?

I can't see because my book is not and never will be here! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA
*pity party over*

Now maybe another poster could present a likely scenario where Darlie could be standing while she slices her throat, catching that necklace on the knife and embedding it into her neck. Just because I can't imagine it certainly doesn't mean it's not possible. Just like aliens. :razz:

[cami]

Do you have necklace sorta like the one Darlie was wearing? I think it was one of those gold S chains about 16" long. Who knows? I'm assuming it had some type of pendant on it...again, does anyone know for sure? Anyway, try it: hang something similar around your neck. See where it hangs?

I can't see because my book is not and never will be here! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA
*pity party over*

Now maybe another poster could present a likely scenario where Darlie could be standing while she slices her throat, catching that necklace on the knife and embedding it into her neck. Just because I can't imagine it certainly doesn't mean it's not possible. Just like aliens. :razz:

What if she, inadvertently, pushed that necklace into her own wound with the cloth she held to her neck? I believe the hospital personnel testified that it fell off when she removed the bandage that the paramedics had used on Darlie. I believe she was standing at the kitchen sink when she made that neck cut due to all the blood that was shed there and the angle of the cut. It just appears to me anyway that that type of cut would not be made by an intruder had Darlie been lying on the sofa asleep. I think it would have been more of a straight, deep cut across and not high up on the neck like that. Just my opinion though.

1 Q. All right. Was she in there any great
2 length of time?
3 A. She was in -- I had her in there
4 exactly 13 minutes.
5 Q. Okay. And then they take her off to
6 surgery?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Okay. Did you remove a necklace from
9 her neck?
10 A. Right. When the technicians pulled
11 the dressing off the wound on her neck, a chain was freed
12 around her neck. I took that off, set it aside, and
13 later, I believe, one of the other nurses handed that
14 over to the Rowlett Police Department.
15 Q. Okay. Was that under the gauze?
16 A. It was underneath the dressing the
17 paramedics had applied.
18
19 (Whereupon, the following
20 mentioned item was
21 marked for
22 identification only
23 after which time the
24 proceedings were
25 resumed on the record
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
902

1 in open court, as
2 follows:)
3
4
5 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
6 Q. Okay. Let me show you what's been
7 marked as State's Exhibit 26. Does this appear to be the
8 necklace?
9 A. This looks similar to the necklace. I
10 couldn't tell you if it was exactly the same one or not.
11 Q. Okay. And it was unattached?
12 A. It was unattached.
13 Q. Okay.
14 A. I didn't have to undo it.
15 Q. Okay.
16
17 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Judge, I would
18 like to enter this for record purposes, at this time.
19 THE COURT: State's Exhibit what?

http://www.justicefordarlie.net/transcripts/volumes/vol-31.php

Well that's not too informative is it? It's not clear if it was embedded in the wound or not or whether they had to use a little bit of force to remove it.

[beesy]

The blood found on the couches was not found where she laid. On the couch where she laid, Damon's blood was found near the foot, I believe. The pillows you mentioned were on the floor, I think. Admittedly it has been a while, but she couldn't have been bleeding as she laid or even as she jumped up and struggled with attackers as she claims in her hynosis report.

Even if you believe her neck wound wasn't bleeding yet or if you buy the notion that the skin overlapped the thin slice preventing it from bleeding, you have that arm wound that was dripping blood everywhere. Any movement should have sent droplets from that arm flying or just plain dripping downward or smearing across the vinyl. You can see in the photos that the blood on the sofas is on the ends and the bottom portion (kick area), not on the back or cushions, not on her pillow, though I think they might have found one drop on her pillow. One drop just isn't enough for wounds that made the mess hers did in that house. You have to remember that the boys were not mobile so 90% of the blood there is hers.

And she stood for a long time at that sink doing something. We know that because her arm bled drop on top of drop all over the floor there. Where was the blood found on the pillow and was it cast off or spatter or what? Is Darlie saying that was the pillow she was sleeping on? Where do you think the pillow was during the attacks?

[beesy]

Do you have necklace sorta like the one Darlie was wearing? I think it was one of those gold S chains about 16" long. Who knows? I'm assuming it had some type of pendant on it...again, does anyone know for sure? Anyway, try it: hang something similar around your neck. See where it hangs?The necklace was more of a choker type necklace and it had a diamond on it

[Goody]

Where was the blood found on the pillow and was it cast off or spatter or what? Is Darlie saying that was the pillow she was sleeping on? Where do you think the pillow was during the attacks?
I don't remember. Maybe Dani does. Camilla is the best one with the blood evidence, but Dani knows it pretty well too. Maybe she will chime in here and give you an answer. Otherwise, check the trial testimony, blood experts and those who collected the blood evidence.

[accordn2me]

Pushed the necklace in the wound with a towel....now why didn't I think of that! :rolleyes: Very possible, Cami, very possible.

Do you know if Darin is right-handed or left-handed?

Darlie's blood was also on one or more of the blankets. I'm thinking that maybe there was a blanket that had her blood exclusively on it.

Goody - Cron or Linch (I never can keep those two straight) said there was no cast off blood so that's why I mentioned the blood on the couches and pillow. I've heard people say "there was no blood on the couch" but there was. Too bad I don't have a book to see it. :(

[Dani_T]

I don't remember. Maybe Dani does. Camilla is the best one with the blood evidence, but Dani knows it pretty well too. Maybe she will chime in here and give you an answer. Otherwise, check the trial testimony, blood experts and those who collected the blood evidence.

Errrm - blood evidence in the living room is one of my weaker points actually. Cam always knew what she was talking about so I just listened to her and focused on other stuff ;)

I'll try and look into it in the next few days.

Edit: BTW- new note on the 'Just Darlie' site: 2005.08.02
Routier still awaits hearing date to be scheduled and 2005 AUGUST
We applaud attorney Richard Burr, the lead Writ Attorney for Ms. Routier, in his abilities to seal information leaks to the media. KUDO’s Mr. Burr!- whatever that means. Anyone have any ideas?

[cami]

Pushed the necklace in the wound with a towel....now why didn't I think of that! :rolleyes: Very possible, Cami, very possible.

Do you know if Darin is right-handed or left-handed?

Darlie's blood was also on one or more of the blankets. I'm thinking that maybe there was a blanket that had her blood exclusively on it.

Goody - Cron or Linch (I never can keep those two straight) said there was no cast off blood so that's why I mentioned the blood on the couches and pillow. I've heard people say "there was no blood on the couch" but there was. Too bad I don't have a book to see it. :(

there's a line of Darlie's blood drops across the front of the couch as Goody noted. almost as if a bleeding Darlie walked across those cushions--Camilla's theory, not mine. There is blood on the underside of one of the armrests of the couch--transfer stains it looks like. What they meant by no blood on the couch is no blood where Darlie's head lay, asleep. If she's getting her throat cut in her sleep, there should be some blood shed I would think anyway. And no cast-off from the bloody knife. If she's up and fighing with a knife wielding intruder the blood is flying off the knife, there should be cast-off on the couch-from what I remember of the blood testimony anyway and I am too tired and lazy to go look it up, LOL. I think it's Bevel's testimony. There's cast-off around the boys' bodies.

[Goody]

Edit: BTW- new note on the 'Just Darlie' site: 2005.08.02
Routier still awaits hearing date to be scheduled and 2005 AUGUST
We applaud attorney Richard Burr, the lead Writ Attorney for Ms. Routier, in his abilities to seal information leaks to the media. KUDO’s Mr. Burr!- whatever that means. Anyone have any ideas?
Well, information leaks in general might be traced down to over zealous websleuths who gain the confidence of insiders and then spill the beans to the wrong people. I can think of at least one incident when that might have happened.:rolleyes:

[Goody]

Goody - Cron or Linch (I never can keep those two straight) said there was no cast off blood so that's why I mentioned the blood on the couches and pillow. I've heard people say "there was no blood on the couch" but there was. Too bad I don't have a book to see it. :(
The only thing I can tell you is if you are looking at big round drops, the bleeder was standing still. If the droplets have tails on them, it indicates cast off. If the round drops have no centers in them, it indicates air pushed the blood out of a cavity, like one's mouth. If the droplets are elongated on the floor, the person was moving when deposting them. Does that help any?

I don't recall any blood on the sofa where she lay that would indicate she was stabbed or cut there. There are also no puncture holes in the vinyl that would indicate the attacker missed her and hit the vinyl, which would be expected in an attack like she describes.