View Full Version : VA - Grateful Dead Fan - Unidentified male, 26 June 1995 - #1
trying2id
07-13-2005, 06:36 AM
Please check out this page, I found some of the information at the doenetwork and some from the investigating officer back in 1995. I know that I left some information from the doenetwork out, I did that on purpose. I have posted this everywhere and I did not want the parents (when I find them) to find out certain things from reading a posting on the internet. Please try to help me on this one.
Shawn
http://www.geocities.com/trying2id/JDpage.html (http://www.geocities.com/trying2id/JDpage.html)
PrayersForMaura
07-13-2005, 09:21 AM
so was the note to him, and was his name Jason?
Maybe someone hurt him at the concert? :(
VespaElf
07-13-2005, 09:29 AM
Can you link the Doe page on him?
lady-eowyn
07-13-2005, 09:34 AM
messie...here's the doe page
http://doenetwork.us/cases/127umva.html
I would think surely someone knows who this young man is...I think starting with the note it would be a safe speculation to say his name is Jason as PrayersforMaura said...
angarella
07-13-2005, 09:39 AM
This is really sad. That no one knows who this child is. What can I do to help?
TIA
Ang
I thought for sure I knew who this was, but I was wrong. I thought it was James Cooper missing from Monroe, MI but James went missing October 25, 1996, not in 1995.
Someone, somewhere has a child that they must think just ran away and decided not to try looking for them, otherwise this young man would have been claimed by someone. It makes me so sad.
VespaElf
07-13-2005, 03:54 PM
What is so sad is that this case couldve been solved back in the 90's when the Dead was still touring.All LE had to do was pass out flyers at Dead shows and they wouldve gotten leads as it seems this guy was following the Dead,which although a tranisent lifestyle was also close knit among followers traveling around the country.
PrayersForMaura
07-13-2005, 07:25 PM
I thought for sure I knew who this was, but I was wrong. I thought it was James Cooper missing from Monroe, MI but James went missing October 25, 1996, not in 1995.
Someone, somewhere has a child that they must think just ran away and decided not to try looking for them, otherwise this young man would have been claimed by someone. It makes me so sad.
Wow... very close... maybe one of the listings has the year wrong??
mysteriew
07-13-2005, 08:22 PM
Wow... very close... maybe one of the listings has the year wrong??
I think that happens frequently in some of the old posts. (And possibly in newer ones too.) Always allow a little leeway. Can you find a media article to verify the dates? Or more than one listing with the same dates?
I wish it were a case of a mistaken date as the family would at least have closure. Here is his case number through the National Center for Missing Children. The look is just so similar.
Case Number: NCMC829920
KrazyKollector
07-13-2005, 11:20 PM
Did anyone ever trace out the tele number? Even without the area code, it can be traced. Time consuming, but doable, expensive to call all the possibles, but doable.
Someone knows this boy and it would be a step to see if he was following the Greatful Dead if we knew where the Dead went after that concert. It would either confirm or eliminate something.
KrazyKollector
07-13-2005, 11:44 PM
I thought for sure I knew who this was, but I was wrong. I thought it was James Cooper missing from Monroe, MI but James went missing October 25, 1996, not in 1995.
Someone, somewhere has a child that they must think just ran away and decided not to try looking for them, otherwise this young man would have been claimed by someone. It makes me so sad.They are close but James had braces and the young man "Jason Doe" had no dental restoration. I would think they would have said if he had braces or had had them.
They are close in basic looks, but with the years being off, I can't imagine NCMEC being off a year.
Edited to add: james has blue eyes and "Jason Doe" has brown.
Marisa714
07-13-2005, 11:46 PM
My two older brothers used to follow the dead around everywhere! They are from Baltimore and they would always swing through Wisconsin to come see us, so I'm pretty sure they went to A LOT of the concerts. My oldest brother also followed them ALWAYS taking pictures, he's a photographer. So he talked to soooo many people to see if they wanted to buy one. I just had an idea! I could ask him to look through his pictures too, and maybe just maybe he'll be in a pic, pretty far fetch though. I will let him know for sure, hopefully he'll get back to me sometime soon(he's sooo busy), let me know if my idea about the photos are crazy!
shadowangel
07-14-2005, 10:40 AM
Here's one possible match from the Doe Network: Case# 1043DMUT (sorry, couldn't get the link to work)
The age is a little off, but that really might not mean anything....Doe Network lists his height as 5'6", the website lists 5'8 to 5'10
Okay, here's the link http://doenetwork.us/cases/1043dmut.html
smile22
07-14-2005, 01:40 PM
i think shadows possible match is a good one maybe something will come out of it also the number thingy what if le tried to call every area coded number that matched the numeber they had... its worth a shot i wouldnt mind sleuthing for possible locations for that number....
http://www.fonefinder.net/findome.php?npa=&nxx=941&usaquerytype=Search+by+Number&cityname=
did a search with the prefix and a wild card for the location. no utah location which means the two women listed on the paper might have not been local and could have been someone at the concert... also im ruling out ct because i have not seen any missing persons fiting his description both on doe and cts unsolved mystries website.. i also saw the pic of the other missing boy james or something the dates were off but the hair looked so alike
lady-eowyn
07-14-2005, 01:49 PM
that is a good match shadow!!
As far as the 914 prefix goes..here is a list of all places with 914 as a prefix...
http://www.fonefinder.net/findome.php?npa=&nxx=914&usaquerytype=Search+by+Number&cityname= (http://www.fonefinder.net/findome.php?npa=&nxx=914&usaquerytype=Search+by+Number&cityname=)
One that stood out particularly to me was Chester, VA, which is south of Richmond. If these people were on their way back from a concert in DC they would have went through this area on I-95 before they got to Greensville County, which is where the accident took place.
lady-eowyn
07-14-2005, 02:00 PM
smile...looks like we were at it at the same time! LOL
I am thinking the note was maybe from someone he met at the concert or on his way to the concert or from it.
shadowangel
07-14-2005, 02:59 PM
I was thinking maybe the note was from friends who were supposed to meet him at the concert but didn't make it. Doe Network states that the un-id'd got the tickets from a guy from PA...it doesn't say if the tickets were sold in PA or elsewhere (maybe at the concert). However, as I read the note it makes more sense that all the tickets (or a large number) may have been sold to a group of friends.
Missing since early '94, Simmons would have had ample time to make his way across country, hitching from state to state...
Is there a way to check for the names in the most likely prefix-matching towns?
Here's one possible match from the Doe Network: Case# 1043DMUT (sorry, couldn't get the link to work)
The age is a little off, but that really might not mean anything....Doe Network lists his height as 5'6", the website lists 5'8 to 5'10
Okay, here's the link http://doenetwork.us/cases/1043dmut.html
The age is a little off, but some definite similarites.
carolina
07-14-2005, 03:46 PM
The age is a little off, but some definite similarites.i agree...but the problem is the hair color. it looks like jason doe died his hair red while the other one was a natural red head.
edit: never mind, i just looked at his pictured again and that could definately be a dye job...this is a really good match!
lady-eowyn
07-14-2005, 03:53 PM
I was thinking maybe the note was from friends who were supposed to meet him at the concert but didn't make it. Doe Network states that the un-id'd got the tickets from a guy from PA...it doesn't say if the tickets were sold in PA or elsewhere (maybe at the concert). However, as I read the note it makes more sense that all the tickets (or a large number) may have been sold to a group of friends.
From doenetwork:
The tickets found in the victim's pocket were traced to a Pennsylvania man who brought 20 tickets with him to the concert
That makes me think that the man brought the tickets with him to the concert and sold them there outside the concert. If the two girls who signed the note were friends that were suppose to meet him there, how would he have gotten the note from them? I was thinking maybe he hooked up with some people and they hitchhiked from the concert into VA...maybe they camped or stayed in a hotel and the girls left while he was asleep or out and left him the note, because it says "sorry we had to go" like they left him.
shadowangel
07-14-2005, 04:58 PM
Guess I need to read a little closer next time!:doh:
Anyway, it still could have been a group supposed to meet there, maybe some of the friends made it to the concert except these two, who gave one of the other friends a note to give to "Jason"
trying2id
07-14-2005, 10:23 PM
so was the note to him, and was his name Jason?
Maybe someone hurt him at the concert? :(
It is not believed that he was hurt at the concert.
No one knows if the note was to him or just something he picked up somewhere... but I have contacted Caroline Thomas. She is one of the founders of a group of kids that followed the Grateful Dead that were drug and alcohol free called the WharfRats. She is sending out my message to all the DeadHeads they she is still in contact with these days.
trying2id
07-14-2005, 10:25 PM
Per the investigating LE they were sold outside the gate at the concert and of course the guy remembers nothing. Go figure.
From doenetwork:
The tickets found in the victim's pocket were traced to a Pennsylvania man who brought 20 tickets with him to the concert
That makes me think that the man brought the tickets with him to the concert and sold them there outside the concert. If the two girls who signed the note were friends that were suppose to meet him there, how would he have gotten the note from them? I was thinking maybe he hooked up with some people and they hitchhiked from the concert into VA...maybe they camped or stayed in a hotel and the girls left while he was asleep or out and left him the note, because it says "sorry we had to go" like they left him.
trying2id
07-14-2005, 10:28 PM
This doenetwork person in not a match, his teeth were in terrible shape and the unidentified had perfect teeth. Dna has been tested also on them. No match!The age is a little off, but some definite similarites.
trying2id
07-14-2005, 10:31 PM
The accident took place on west highway 58 heading into Emporia and heading right towards I-95, therefore it is unknown as to whether he was trying to go north or south.that is a good match shadow!!
As far as the 914 prefix goes..here is a list of all places with 914 as a prefix...
http://www.fonefinder.net/findome.php?npa=&nxx=914&usaquerytype=Search+by+Number&cityname= (http://www.fonefinder.net/findome.php?npa=&nxx=914&usaquerytype=Search+by+Number&cityname=)
One that stood out particularly to me was Chester, VA, which is south of Richmond. If these people were on their way back from a concert in DC they would have went through this area on I-95 before they got to Greensville County, which is where the accident took place.
Bobbisangel
07-14-2005, 11:35 PM
Here's one possible match from the Doe Network: Case# 1043DMUT (sorry, couldn't get the link to work)
The age is a little off, but that really might not mean anything....Doe Network lists his height as 5'6", the website lists 5'8 to 5'10
Okay, here's the link http://doenetwork.us/cases/1043dmut.html
This boy could be the one in this thread. The link above says he was 5' 11"
and weighed 160 lbs. The boy in the above link disappeared in April but he could have been following the band around for 2 months before he was murdered.
That note sounds like he had been with the two females and then they had to leave. The drawing of the boy doesn't say how old they thought he was. The boy in the above link was 24 yrs I believe. The boy in the above links middle name is Jason. I won't be surprised if they are one and the same boy.
The family does have a website. Will someone email them and let them know about this boy possibly being their Jason? The family website is one the link listed above...the doenetwork.
KrazyKollector
07-15-2005, 12:49 AM
This doenetwork person in not a match, his teeth were in terrible shape and the unidentified had perfect teeth. Dna has been tested also on them. No match!I am glad it was tested trying2id. Is there any other information on this "Jason Doe"?
It would have been nice, but too easy if it had been the young man from Utah. Even shared the correct name (if the not JD had with him was to him).
trying2id--did they call ALL the numbers that matched the one on the slip of paper he had with him? All the area codes?
Someone has to know this boy! Or know the two Carolines!.....
surf_moon_stars
07-15-2005, 01:32 AM
Hi Shawn,
Thanks for the post, I will pass it around to the right communities who
can help on it as well..
I sure hope we can identify who the two Carolines are, and why they
would not stay to help LE explain what may have happend to him, even
if it happened to be an accidental overdose.
I hope these girls who were "supposedly" there and left a note (names could be a cover up, why leave your last name inital on this note for sake of being recognized for being with him at that time.
I sure hope with this case re-circulated to the public, that someone will step forward and report "anything" they may know to LE and help try and bring closure to a famly missing a son.
Have a good night~
KT Can
07-15-2005, 03:18 AM
Link to article about "Jason Doe":
http://vancnews.com/articles/2005/07/07/emporia/news/news02.txt
(FYI, height is described as 5'8" in article vs 5'6" on doenetwork)
lady-eowyn
07-15-2005, 09:01 AM
The accident took place on west highway 58 heading into Emporia and heading right towards I-95, therefore it is unknown as to whether he was trying to go north or south. trying...I surmised that they were going south because on the doenetwork site it said:
The identified driver apparently fell asleep at the wheel on his way back to South Carolina.
So if the identified driver of the van was on his way back to SC then it would make sense that they were going south.
I also thought that since the concert was in DC and the accident was south of Richmond that it made sense that he was going south...is it known which way they were headed on Hwy 58? I know it says the accident happened west of Emporia (which is just off I-95), but nothing I have read indicates if they were headed east or west on 58
babydust2004
07-15-2005, 02:52 PM
http://www.marylandmissing.com/pages/24/index.htm
anyone think the man with the baseball cap under Anne Arundel looks similiar to this person?it says click picture for more info but does not work,so I have no idea when this person disappeared or his stats.could be a long shot but just trying to help.
gagesmom314
07-15-2005, 03:01 PM
http://www.marylandmissing.com/pages/24/index.htm
anyone think the man with the baseball cap under Anne Arundel looks similiar to this person?it says click picture for more info but does not work,so I have no idea when this person disappeared or his stats.could be a long shot but just trying to help.Here is a link with more information. This guys name is James.
http://http://www.aacounty.org/Police/MissingPersons/cole.cfm
ETA: I do find it interesting that there is NOTHING when you search for this guy online.
babydust2004
07-15-2005, 03:10 PM
http://www.aacounty.org/Police/MissingPersons/cole.cfm
I couldnt get your link to work not sure why.I am posting after I searched
aacounty.org site and came up with this.just seeing if it was just a problem I am having.it doesn't say when he disappeared,very strange.
gagesmom314
07-15-2005, 03:29 PM
I dont know why the link didn't post for me but yes that is the site I found. I found it very odd that there was no date on it as well. When you search his name in Google you don't come up with hardly anything. For some reason that struck me as odd.
babydust2004
07-15-2005, 08:41 PM
If the missing date of this is in range,I think could be a possibility as a person my not have ID if they have just walked off from their past life and wanted a new identity,which says to me also they might pick a new name that could possibly be close to their real name Jason-James?
nicbok
07-18-2005, 01:13 AM
.[/QUOTEIt is not believed that he was hurt at the concert.
No one knows if the note was to him or just something he picked up somewhere... but I have contacted Caroline Thomas. She is one of the founders of a group of kids that followed the Grateful Dead that were drug and alcohol free called the WharfRats. She is sending out my message to all the DeadHeads they she is still in contact with these days.[/QUOTE]
And presumably she's not the Caroline T from the note??
BirdieBoo
07-18-2005, 03:23 AM
Did anyone ever trace out the tele number? Even without the area code, it can be traced. Time consuming, but doable, expensive to call all the possibles, but doable.
Someone knows this boy and it would be a step to see if he was following the Greatful Dead if we knew where the Dead went after that concert. It would either confirm or eliminate something.
It shoudn't be that difficult to see where the Dead went after that, becase Jerry Garcia passed away less than 2 months later. However, the only 2 specific dates I was able to find after that were Deer creek, July 2, 1995, and Soldier Field, 7/8/95. WS must have a couple of Deadicated Deadheads around who can answer this, right?
lady-eowyn
07-18-2005, 08:16 AM
trying...I surmised that they were going south because on the doenetwork site it said:
The identified driver apparently fell asleep at the wheel on his way back to South Carolina.
So if the identified driver of the van was on his way back to SC then it would make sense that they were going south.
I also thought that since the concert was in DC and the accident was south of Richmond that it made sense that he was going south...is it known which way they were headed on Hwy 58? I know it says the accident happened west of Emporia (which is just off I-95), but nothing I have read indicates if they were headed east or west on 58
Duh :doh:...I just re-read tryings post at the top of the page and it says they were heading toward 1-95
marylandmissing
07-18-2005, 09:25 AM
This isn't Jack Simmons - been ruled out. Not James Cole either - he went missing in 1999 I believe.
The young boy is most likely from the Baltimore, MD, area. He bought the tickets outside of Harford County, MD (which is right outside of Baltimore) and he went to a DC concert. I've spoken with someone who knows the mother of the other boy killed in the crash. The boy was apparently picked up outside of DC, and the mother suspects he might have been from that area since he purchased tickets in PA, where there was no GD concert.
There was a post on an internet forum awhile back that was being looked into. A woman posted she hadn't seen her brother "Jason" in ten years and the physical description was similar. The woman was in Baltimore, MD. I don't know what happened with that.
The sad truth about this, is most likely no one is missing him. Authories I've talked to tend to believe this. This child has been on AMW, Unsolved Mysteries, and numerous other shows.
Helper
07-20-2005, 12:27 PM
If this fellow had been at earlier shows on the tour, it would most likely be Giants Stadium in East Rutherford, NJ and/or Knickerbocker Arena.
The tour has been described by Phil Lesh as "the tour from hell". Jerry Garcia was not very interactive, sometimes not even playing or losing his place, not realizing what song the band was doing. Gate-crashing by ticketless fans was a huge problem at several shows. Severe rain was a big problem. Before the RFK show on June 25, three fans were struck by lightning. A roof collapse at a campground after a show in Missouri injured more than a hundred fans. There were also threats on Garcia's life at one point.
The dates were: June 19 &19: Giants Stadium, East Rutherford, NJ; June 21-22: Knickerbocker Arena, Albany, NY; June 24-25, RFK Stadium, DC;
June 27-28: The Palace, Auburn Hills, MI; June 30: Three Rivers Stadium, Pittsburgh, PA; July 2: Deer Creek, Noblesville, IN; July 5-6: Maryland Heights, MO; July 8-9: Soldier Field, Chicago.
It does not appear to me that this man was intending to follow the Dead on to Michigan, since he was heading South. Phish was playing at the Mann Music Center in Philadelphia the same weekend as the RFK Dead shows. The Allman Brothers Band was apparently not playing around this time. So, as far as I can tell, it doesn't sound like he was heading off to another concert after the Dead show.
Helper
08-09-2005, 01:43 PM
Has anyone checked out Doe Network Case File 1389DMFL, Phillip J. Koss? The height appears to be off, but otherwise there's a similarity. Brown eyes, long brown hair. The ponytail looks like it's dyed red, perhaps. "J." middle initial could be Jason. Disappeared from Florida in March 1995, and our fellow was heading south from DC, rather than following the Dead tour. The height is a big discrepency, but may be worth a look.
Helper
08-09-2005, 05:27 PM
Phillip went missing about three days before the Grateful Dead's Spring 1995 East Coast tour began in Philadelphia.
CaliKid
08-09-2005, 05:50 PM
This isn't Jack Simmons - been ruled out. Not James Cole either - he went missing in 1999 I believe.
The young boy is most likely from the Baltimore, MD, area. He bought the tickets outside of Harford County, MD (which is right outside of Baltimore) and he went to a DC concert. I've spoken with someone who knows the mother of the other boy killed in the crash. The boy was apparently picked up outside of DC, and the mother suspects he might have been from that area since he purchased tickets in PA, where there was no GD concert.
There was a post on an internet forum awhile back that was being looked into. A woman posted she hadn't seen her brother "Jason" in ten years and the physical description was similar. The woman was in Baltimore, MD. I don't know what happened with that.
The sad truth about this, is most likely no one is missing him. Authories I've talked to tend to believe this. This child has been on AMW, Unsolved Mysteries, and numerous other shows.
No, I think it said that a man purchased 20 tickets for the concert in PA and sold some at the concert. The young man had one of the tickets, but the person he bought it from couldn't ID him.
As far as the 914 prefix goes, if you take into account that he was heading south, nearby areas include Birmingham AL, North Dade-Melbourne-Bel Glade-Ft. Lauderdale-Sarasota-Panama City-Tampa FL, Manchester-Bristol TN, Chester VA, Ladue MO, McDonough-Atlanta-Athens GA, Hampton SD, Little Rock-Magnolia AR, New Orleans LA, Jackson MS, Eddyville-Ashland KY, Chapel Hill-Whiteville-Charlotte NC, Bartlesville OK and San Antonio-Grand Prairie-Houston-Austin-Sunset-Dallas-Marion TX.
There are also several area codes in Maryland, New Jersey and Pennsylvania that match up.
I'd bet he left home at an early age, possibly as a runaway, and either nobody cares or nobody's left to care.
Richard
08-16-2005, 01:22 AM
Grateful Dead Fan - Unidentified male died 26 June 1995
Unidentified White Male
Located on June 26, 1995 in Greensville County, Virginia.
Cause of death was a traffic accident
The Doe Network: Case File 127UMVA
Vital Statistics
Estimated age: 16 - 21 years old
Approximate Height and Weight: 5'6" - 168 cm; 169 lbs - 77 kg.
Distinguishing Characteristics: Red hair; brown eyes. His left ear was pierced but he was not wearing an earring.
Dentals: Available. He had all of his teeth and no dental restoration work.
Clothing: He was wearing blue jeans, blue FILA Athletic shoes size 11 1/2, a necklace and and a red concert T-shirt of the Grateful Dead, Tour 30th Anniversary 1995.
Tattoos: He had a home-made tattoo of a 5 pointed star on his left arm.
Fingerprints: Available
Other: He had a note in his pocket that said: "To Jason, Sorry we had to go. See you around. Caroline O. and Caroline T." The note had a phone number with a 914 prefix. There was no area code. He also had two ticket stubs to a Grateful Dead concert at RFK Stadium in Washington, D.C. on June 25, 1995.
Photos available of: T-shirt worn by victim; Tattoo; Composite sketch and bust of victim.
Case History
On June 26, 1995 this victim was a passenger in a van involved in a fatal accident in Greensville County, Virginia, that killed him and the driver. The identified driver apparently fell asleep at the wheel on his way back to South Carolina. Authorities believe the unidentified passenger was picked up hitchhiking. He didn't have any identification on him and the family of the driver did not know who he was.
The tickets found in the victim's pocket were traced to a Pennsylvania man who brought 20 tickets with him to the concert. Unfortunately, the man could not recall who he sold the tickets to.
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Office of the Chief Medical Examiner
Medicolegal Death Investigator
800-447-1706
Source Information:
National Center for Missing and Exploited Children
The Child Protection Education of America
Pulp Radio Magazine
Richmond Times-Dispatch
Link:http://doenetwork.us/cases/127umva.html
trying2id
08-20-2005, 02:56 PM
1. Caroline Thomas claims to not be Caroline T from the note.
2. JD hit the windshield of the van and then a pine tree on the other side of the glass. So height could be off some.
3. The LE doesn't remember hardly anything about the case and refuses to pick up the file and give me any information.... such as scars, birthmarks, or former injuries. (He was quoted in an article that he has been bothered by this case since it happened, yet when I spoke with him, he knew nothing.)
4. The rumor about him be Chris Rainbow and know LSD dealer at GD concerts.... This is not the person and No the DEA officers do not know anyone by that name. I have spoken with a very dear friend of mine that knows how much this means to me, so believe he would tell me the truth.
Things that I wonder about...
1. This young man had perfect well cared for teeth... where was his tooth brush when the accident happened?
2. If he had bought the tickect outside the concert... where did the money come from?
3. If he bought the shirt at the concert... where is the the short he wore to the concert?
4. He died over 10 years ago... When will LE stop the privacy crap? They do not have time to help this young man, so why not release information to me, someone that is willing to give any extra time I have to this young man.
5. How no one can not know who he is.....
Now for the BIG one...
I believe this young man is Ricky Lee Jones. Jones and his girfriend ran away from TX when he found out she was only 14 years old. She was later killed by a serial killer, but Ricky was charged with the murder before the real killer was known. Ricky and his siblings were removed from their family before he ran away and therefore, the FBI made the only missing persons report on him. Thus why no one has claimed him. BUT no one wants to check because everyone believes he was also killed by Rhoades. He picked up his girls in truckstops... I would think a couple of kids hitchhiking may use truckstops. Also, why would Rhoades kill a male... all his victims were females.
http://doenetwork.us/cases/1319dmtx.html
How far fetched do I sound on this???
OriginalJerseyGirl
08-20-2005, 05:47 PM
Virginia/North Carolina News (http://vancnews.com/articles/2005/07/07/emporia/news/news02.txt)
The Doe Network: Case File 1319DMTX (http://doenetwork.us/cases/1319dmtx.html)
This story is so sad. It's hard to believe that there are people out there that are never missed. Trying2id, your diligence and dedication are amazing. What you are trying to do is wonderful.
I think that these two images are very, very similar. Yet I think that there are some key differences. Ricky Lee Jones' eyebrows seem thicker than JD, and RLJ also appears to have a cleft chin, (is that the right phrase)? The nose is also different, however if it was due to a break, that could have happened at any time between the time he went missing and the time of the accident. Yet RLJ's nose seems wider at the bridge.
The similarities are enough that it's probably worth looking into more but the cleft chin is what's bothering me the most.
trying2id
08-20-2005, 06:29 PM
Virginia/North Carolina News (http://vancnews.com/articles/2005/07/07/emporia/news/news02.txt)
The Doe Network: Case File 1319DMTX (http://doenetwork.us/cases/1319dmtx.html)
This story is so sad. It's hard to believe that there are people out there that are never missed. Trying2id, your diligence and dedication are amazing. What you are trying to do is wonderful.
I think that these two images are very, very similar. Yet I think that there are some key differences. Ricky Lee Jones' eyebrows seem thicker than JD, and RLJ also appears to have a cleft chin, (is that the right phrase)? The nose is also different, however if it was due to a break, that could have happened at any time between the time he went missing and the time of the accident. Yet RLJ's nose seems wider at the bridge.
The similarities are enough that it's probably worth looking into more but the cleft chin is what's bothering me the most.
The photo of JD is a police sketch from a coroner's photo of a young man that had terrible facial injuries, so it may not even be correct.
trying2id
08-20-2005, 06:52 PM
Please check out this page, I found some of the information at the doenetwork and some from the investigating officer back in 1995. I know that I left some information from the doenetwork out, I did that on purpose. I have posted this everywhere and I did not want the parents (when I find them) to find out certain things from reading a posting on the internet. Please try to help me on this one.
Shawn
http://www.geocities.com/trying2id/JDpage.html (http://www.geocities.com/trying2id/JDpage.html)
shadowangel
08-20-2005, 07:34 PM
The reports I have read all seem adamant that the victim was no older than 16 years old. Jones would have been 24-25 at the time of the accident. This seems too great a discrepancy to me...
OriginalJerseyGirl
08-20-2005, 09:18 PM
The photo of JD is a police sketch from a coroner's photo of a young man that had terrible facial injuries, so it may not even be correct.I hadn't considered how much the facial injuries might have influenced the sketch. Good point. Like I said, there are definite similarities so it is worth looking into, for sure.
Paradise
08-20-2005, 09:29 PM
I was online yesterday and somehow got to a Utah missing persons site and I found a picture of Jack Jason Simmons. He looks like this guy, and I was wondering if this had ever been checked out? Here's the website, you can see the pic for yourself.
http://bci.utah.gov/MPC/MPCMissing.html
shadowangel
08-20-2005, 09:53 PM
I picked up on this guy Simmons right after trying2id posted on the Missing! forum. It was posted that he had already been eliminated...
kylie
08-20-2005, 09:53 PM
He looks very much like this kid.....any DNA from the body that can be checked against the Utah family??
trying2id
08-21-2005, 12:13 AM
DNA and dental proved it was not Jason Jack Simmons.
He looks very much like this kid.....any DNA from the body that can be checked against the Utah family??
Richard
08-21-2005, 11:04 AM
I have followed this story since it was first reported. In 1997 or 1998, I felt that this body might have been that of a serviceman missing from Rome, NY. There were many similarities, such as height, weight, hair and eye color, age, etc. And the serviceman's car had been found some time previously in North Carolina, not far from where the fatal van crash occurred which killed the driver and this unknown young man.
At the time (1997 or 98), the body was being kept in a frozen state by the State Medical Examiner in Richmond, VA. The match was so compelling, that the body was taken from storage and checked against the missing serviceman's medical and dental records. Unfortunately, there was no match, and the John Doe has remained unidentified since. I believe, however, that more photos, x-rays, and DNA samples were taken at that time.
trying2id
08-21-2005, 11:15 AM
I have spoken with the LE and all I keep getting is...
I can not recall or either well ma'am that that is a privacy issue. I would think that at some point, privacy would no longer be an issue. I mean if a private person is willing to give this case their free time and the LE can not recall (because he has not open the folder in years) that someone would be willing to give up some information.
I have followed this story since it was first reported. In 1997 or 1998, I felt that this body might have been that of a serviceman missing from Rome, NY. There were many similarities, such as height, weight, hair and eye color, age, etc. And the serviceman's car had been found some time previously in North Carolina, not far from where the fatal van crash occurred which killed the driver and this unknown young man.
At the time (1997 or 98), the body was being kept in a frozen state by the State Medical Examiner in Richmond, VA. The match was so compelling, that the body was taken from storage and checked against the missing serviceman's medical and dental records. Unfortunately, there was no match, and the John Doe has remained unidentified since. I believe, however, that more photos, x-rays, and DNA samples were taken at that time.
Richard
08-21-2005, 11:36 AM
I have spoken with the LE and all I keep getting is...
I can not recall or either well ma'am that that is a privacy issue. I would think that at some point, privacy would no longer be an issue. I mean if a private person is willing to give this case their free time and the LE can not recall (because he has not open the folder in years) that someone would be willing to give up some information.
It can be frustrating at times. The "Privacy Issue" nonsense is just an excuse for someone who doesn't want to work. How can you protect the privacy of an individual that you don't know?
Helper
08-24-2005, 02:11 PM
Rhoades allegedly killed Douglas Scott Zyskowski, husband of his victim, Patricia Walsh.
trying2id
12-29-2005, 10:44 PM
Just trying to bring this back to a current topic. I am still searching day and night. Someone has to be out there... but where? Could you be the one?
trying2id
12-29-2005, 10:48 PM
I am searching for information on a young man that has been unidentified for 10 years on June 26, 2005. He was found just west of Emporia, Virginia on June 26, 1995.
When he was found, he had shoulder length wavy hair that was a lighter brown or possibly what could be considered dark blond, which had at some point been dyed red. The red dye was believed to be temporary due to the fading of the color causing his hair to appear different shades of red, even pink in spots. His eye color is brown. He was about 5’8” to 5’10” and weighted about 160lbs to 170lbs. His left ear was pierced but he was not wearing an earring. His approximate age was 16 to 22 years of age at the time. He had a home-made tattoo of a 5 point star on his left arm. He had perfect teeth never having had any dental repairs. There were no drugs nor alcohol found in his system at the time of the accident. He was wearing blue jeans, blue FILA tennis shoes size 11 1/2, a Grateful Dead, Tour 30th Anniversary 1995 concert shirt and a necklace. His only possessions were a yellow disposable lighter, two concert ticket stubs from the Grateful Dead concert that was at RFK stadium in Washington, DC on June 25, 1995. Also included in his possession was a note that read…”To Jason, Sorry we have to go. See you around. Caroline T. and Caroline O.”
Someone has to have known this young man from somewhere. Maybe Caroline O. or Caroline T. remembers writing a note to this young man.
If anyone can help me in my search, please contact me at trying2id@yahoo.com (trying2id@yahoo.com)
If anyone has any pictures from the above mentioned concert, please e-mail me copies so that I can use them to try and give him a name to go with the face.
I have two photos, if you would like a copy email me at trying2id@yahoo.com (trying2id@yahoo.com) .
http://www.geocities.com/trying2id/JDpage.html (http://www.geocities.com/trying2id/JDpage.html)
Thank you,
SL Groover
mysteriew
12-30-2005, 01:38 AM
Nope, not forgotten. More discussion here:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27787&highlight=Grateful+Dead+concert
PonderingThings
12-30-2005, 05:26 AM
I too have searched, high and low, for a possible match, and nothing! I really thought he was Simmons too!
There is another young man, who was also in a traffic accident, after a Grateful Dead concert (another place and date) who also hasn't been identified!
How sad. Two young people. Who died in innocent way, unidentified!
dottierainbow
12-30-2005, 08:15 AM
There is another young man, who was also in a traffic accident, after a Grateful Dead concert (another place and date) who also hasn't been identified!
How sad. Two young people. Who died in innocent way, unidentified!
Who? When? and where? Do you have a link for this other unidentified? Thanks!!!
LButler
12-30-2005, 10:25 AM
I remember a story of a young man who came up missing from a concert - went to the car for something and never returned. They had a "sighting" reported on him at a rest stop somewhere and it was reported that he was very disoriented. I think this was NC or VA. I will try to locate the story and post the link. It seems that it may have even been a Grateful Dead concert.
Let me go look around ......
Paradise
12-30-2005, 10:58 AM
If anyone looks at the Missing and Unidentified Database on Yahoo Groups, there's quite a few people who have a Greatful Dead Connection.
Bonita Bickwit
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/3dfny.html
Unidentified Female
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/11ufil.html
Bridget Lee Pendell-Williamson
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1620dfks.html
Mitchel Fred Weiser
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/2dmny.html
Douglas Stephen Simmons
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/131dmnc.html
Unidentified Male
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/127umva.html
Cengiz Han Nuray
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1193dmca.html
Unidentified Male
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/178umga.html
LButler
12-30-2005, 11:20 AM
BINGO Paradise ....
Douglas Stephen Simmons is my guy. Thanks for an informative post!!
PonderingThings
12-30-2005, 03:45 PM
Yes Paradise, thanks for all those links!
The unidentifed person I was talking about, you listed:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/178umga.html (http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/178umga.html)
PonderingThings
12-30-2005, 11:51 PM
I'm just presenting this as possible options....
Leslie and his younger brother Shawn http://doenetwork.us/cases/593dmon.html
disappeared together 1.5 years before John Doe went to the concert.
The was no published reports that I found that indicated they ran away, or that they were abducted - they simply weren't there anymore. If they did run away that would explain why there was no missing person report lodged after the concert.
The Doe Networks report of red hair may be incorrect as it was brown with streaks of red (as in dye) in other reports.
Leslie wore braces - and John Doe had no dental restorations done. It is possible, but unlikely that it is him, for this reason.
There is a resemblence to the drawing, the stats, and timing, match... could it be Leslie?
http://doenetwork.us/cases/images/127UMVA1.jpghttp://doenetwork.us/cases/images/LDJones.jpghttp://doenetwork.us/cases/images/127UMVA2.jpg
http://doenetwork.us/cases/592dmon.html
Leslie Dwayne Jones
Missing since October 23, 1993 from Wiarton, Ontario, Canada.
Classification: Missing
Vital Statistics
* Date Of Birth: September 14, 1978
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 15 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'6; 150 lbs
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair; brown eyes.
* Marks, Scars: Scar on his right cheek
* Dentals: Wears braces
Circumstances of Disappearance
Leslie and his brother Shawn were last seen at their home on Cape Croker Indian Reserve near Wiarton, Ontario.
http://doenetwork.us/cases/images/127UMVA1.jpghttp://doenetwork.us/cases/images/SSJones.jpg
Shawn Jones (brother)
Shawn Steven Jones
Vital Statistics
* Date Of Birth: August 13, 1979
* Age at Time of Disappearance: 14 years old
* Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'7"; 161 lbs
* Distinguishing Characteristics: Brown hair; green eyes.
* Clothing: Black t-shirt, black & red ballcap, blue jeans, grey & white nylon jacket, white "Runners"
* Dentals: Good teeth
*************************
Eyes aren't the right color, but he has "good teeth". I don't find he resembles the composite as much as his brother does.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/snooty.gif I don't think its either one.... what do you think?
mysteriew
12-31-2005, 12:13 AM
The hair color is the thing. Light brown hair you can dye red, blonde, etc. without much trouble. However, with dark brown or black hair, if applied a red rinse, it wouldn't hardly show up. At best, it would just put reddish highlights in the hair.
Shawn shows a strong physical resemblence, but the hair color is a problem. All of the composites for the UID show a light brown hair color with a reddish rinse. If they knew about the rinse, then I have to assume they had evidence of the hair color, thus the hair put on the reconstruct would be close to the actual color.
There is a possibility though, because hair color often shows up as darker in pictures. Esp. school pictures which those appear to be.
PonderingThings
12-31-2005, 07:45 AM
Here is a link to another thread, here on Websleuths, about this unidentified person. It has some interesting information:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26202
Richard
12-31-2005, 12:04 PM
Although not a "follower" of the Grateful Dead, I have been following this case for about ten years now.
The Dead's concert at JFK stadium was a particularly memorable one for a number of reasons. It was the third to last concert that they did before their leader, Jerry Garcia died. Bob Dylan opened for the group that night. Pianist Bruce Hornsby also appeared on stage with them.
During the JFK concert, there was a tremendous thunderstorm. Lightning struck three people, critically injuring one woman.
The Hitchhiker left town and headed south, evidently picked up by another young man who was a Grateful Dead fan, but who had not been to the JFK concert. Meanwhile, the Grateful Dead moved on to their next concerts, one in Michigan, and then their last together which was to be held at Three Rivers Stadium, Pittsburg, PA.
By a coincidence, I happened to be traveling through western Pennsylvania just prior to that concert and was caught in bumper-to-bumper traffic caused by the large number of Grateful Dead Fans converging on Pittsburg.
I became involved in trying to learn this young man's identity, and spoke on several occasions with the Virginia State trooper assigned to the case. At one point, there seemed to be a likely match between the dead man and a man missing from upstate New York. Dental records were obtained of the missing man, and compared with the dead man's teeth by the Richmond Medical Examiner. There was no match. But during that time, many more x-rays and photos,and DNA samples were taken.
There is or was a Grateful Dead Forum website and I put this case on it back in 1996 or 97. There was a good deal of interest, and a few suggestions as to who he might be, but no final answers.
There was some discussion that he might be someone named Jason Coe (or something like Coe) who was reportedly traveling with a David Fincher. Various separate people stated that they had been from Wisconsin origionally, but that they had traveled through Arizona, Georgia, and Florida. One person stated that he had known a Jason from Wisconsin who traveled with a bulldog named "Baily". Yet another man stated that he had a set of tools in his van or motor home which belonged to a guy named Jason who was supposed to meet up with him later during the Grateful Dead 95 tour, but that he never saw him again. In September of 1994, somebody had been looking for a Jason Whitler from Indiana, who hadn't been seen in two years.
There were a lot of leads, and a lot of coincidences, but no answers.
There were some folks who mentioned other cases of Grateful Dead followers who died or went missing.
One person who suggested that "Jason" might have been a member of a group called the Wharf Rats, or something like that. The group was made up of former drug or alcohol addicts who would follow the Grateful Dead and have meetings somewhat along the line of Alcoholics Anonymous.
This case was profiled on the NBC show "Unsolved Mysteries" which aired on 7 March 1997. It generated some leads and some interest, but again, no definite answers.
The accident which killed this young man and the driver occurred on Highway 58, about three miles west of Emporia, Virginia. Knowing that the driver's destination was South Carolina, the Hitchhiker had decided to travel West through northern North Carolina, rather than getting out and heading further south on I-95.
One possibility mentioned at the time was that this unknown man might have been James Donald Kimball, born 28 Dec 1968, who had gone missing from his Oak Park, Ill home in the spring of 1993. His case was also featured on Unsolved Mysteries (19 January 1996). Kimball suffered from a schizo-affective disorder and required medication. He was reportedly seen in March of 1994 outside South Bend, Indiana by a state trooper who stated that he seemed dazed and confused.
MyJessieAngel
12-31-2005, 12:46 PM
I was online yesterday and somehow got to a Utah missing persons site and I found a picture of Jack Jason Simmons. He looks like this guy, and I was wondering if this had ever been checked out? Here's the website, you can see the pic for yourself.
http://bci.utah.gov/MPC/MPCMissing.html
ok I went to the link you provided.
I don't know about the Jason Simmons link. They do look similar, but I thought I heard that he was already eliminated as a match.
Anyway, I went through and read the other postings. Did anyone happen to notice the following coincidence between two of the missing females? ( I copied their info and underlined in bold print the info I am referring to)
Is it just me, or does this strike anyone else as being a little bit weird?
http://bci.utah.gov/MPC/MPCMissing.html#simmons
Missing Endangered - Brooke Wilberger -Brooke Wilberger was last seen the morning of May 24, 2004, working at an apartment complex in Corvallis, Oregon. She was discovered missing around 10am and is missing under suspicious circumstances. Brooke has pierced ears and a scar on her right arm from the wrist to the elbow. She was last seen wearing blue jeans, a grey BYU soccer T-shirt, and may have been wearing an indigo colored "Fresh Jive" sweatshirt. Brooke was also wearing small hoop earrings and a ring inscribed with the letters "CTR." Information concerning Brooke should be submitted to the Corvallis Police Department at 541-766-6924 or Tipline 877-367-2270 or 541-766-6989.
Endangered Missing -
KIPLYN DAVIS
- Kiplyn was last seen at Spanish Fork High on May 2, 1995. She left all of her belongings in her locker at school. She has naturally curly red hair, blue eyes and a fair complexion with a few freckles. She is very self conscious about her appearance. She was wearing dark denim shorts, white crew neck top and a light blue denim vest with beige stripes. She had 2 silver rings, one shaped like a flower and the other was shaped like a shield with the letters "CTR" in it.
scandi
12-31-2005, 01:16 PM
What does CTR stand for?
Does anyone think that maybe these people who had a passion for the Grateful Dead were simply on drugs which made them vulnerable as targets?
Richard, do you think there is a killer out there zoning in on Grateful Dead fans? The car accident seems innocent enough, and I'm trying to figure out why you want to learn more about him, other than he is unidentified.
Scandi
PonderingThings
12-31-2005, 01:19 PM
This was posted on another thread about the ring:
"Someone asked about the CTR ring. I know it has been answered but it is very similar to the WWJD (What Would Jesus Do) that mainstream Christians wear on items. The CTR (Choose the Right) is given at a young age, but it is a cheap ring given at that time. Many of us active LDS people buy the more expensive rings of 14k gold or sterling silver to wear as a constant reminder."
scandi
12-31-2005, 01:26 PM
Thanks PonderingThings,
I was surprised to see Brooke listed on Utah's site because she went missing from Oregon. It must be that if a person is a Morman, they are put on Utah's list.
Scandi
MyJessieAngel
12-31-2005, 01:28 PM
This was posted on another thread about the ring:
"Someone asked about the CTR ring. I know it has been answered but it is very similar to the WWJD (What Would Jesus Do) that mainstream Christians wear on items. The CTR (Choose the Right) is given at a young age, but it is a cheap ring given at that time. Many of us active LDS people buy the more expensive rings of 14k gold or sterling silver to wear as a constant reminder."
Oh ok. Thanks for clarifying that for me. I have heard and seen the WWJD stuff, but had never seen or heard of the CTR stuff until I saw that site, and you explained it.
trying2id
01-03-2006, 08:26 AM
What does CTR stand for?
Does anyone think that maybe these people who had a passion for the Grateful Dead were simply on drugs which made them vulnerable as targets?
Richard, do you think there is a killer out there zoning in on Grateful Dead fans? The car accident seems innocent enough, and I'm trying to figure out why you want to learn more about him, other than he is unidentified.
ScandiConsidering that I have two children both in this young man's age range and I would pray that if anything were to happen to them, that someone would try to find me. Kids can do somethings that adults do not understand and things can jst plain happen to cause problems within a family. This young man deserves to have his name known, he deserves to have a final resting place instead of in the coroner's office on a shelf. He deserves this because he was a human being and no one deserves to be unknown. He had no drugs in his system at the time of the accident, just maybe everyone that followed or attended Grateful Dead concerts were not druggies. Maybe he just liked the music. So, I believe that being unidentified is enough of a reason to try and help someone. If he were killed leaving a church function, would this have been more of a reason to try and help him???
Many of the missing in the world, just went out to the store or to a friend's house, this did make them targets? People are targets because there are so many sick and demented people out there, that do not care. Compare the number of people connected in some way with the Grateful Dead and the then compare how many people were last seen on the way to a friend's house or that were last seen at work...
It does not matter if the person is strung out on drugs and selling their bodies on the streets to support their habits... they are humans and someone loves them... And everyone should care!
STEPPING OFF MY SOAP BOX NOW!
PonderingThings
01-03-2006, 04:50 PM
Trying2ID your post was very well said! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/clap.gif
Another perspective?
Back in the early 70s there was a body that local law enforcement was trying to identify. It was a traffic accident. The man who died was not a transient, but had no identification.
I was a kid, and since everyone was talking about this news I asked my mom why someone wouldn't come forward to claim him... was he alone in the world?
My mom explained to me that it could be that he was alone in the world, or that the family didn't live in the city, or it could be that the family didn't have enough money to pay for a funeral. My reaction was http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif about that. She explained to me that there was assistance available to pay for a funeral, if a family couldn't afford it, but not everyone knew about it, or for various reasons would not take it. They knew that the government would bury their loved ones and just the knowledge that they died was enough for them.
I can remember this conversation with a great deal of clarity. My mom was a very wise woman. I don't think that is the case with all the John and Jane Does out there, but for some, even ones who die in tragic accidents, there may be a reason why someone has not come forward to identify them.
Perhaps if more people knew that their loved ones bones were sitting in cardboard boxes, instead of being at rest in a pauper's grave, they would somehow supply the information? All it would take is an anonymous letter or phone call.
By the way I went on with my life and have no idea if they ever did identify the man. My mother's explanation has stayed with me ever since though.
Ms Suzanne
01-03-2006, 05:05 PM
Hi
I am very aware of this unidentified young man.As I read about him I thought of a AA or NA program where they say like carolyn o or carolyn T so they do not say thier last name to keep thier anonymity.Maybe he was travling to the concert.
Suzanne
Beyond Belief
01-03-2006, 09:47 PM
Somethings wrong with this picture. No money? Two tickets? I wonder if the drivers money was missing.
PonderingThings
01-03-2006, 10:01 PM
Good point Beyond Belief. There are some people that would rob accident victims. This could have happened at the scene, before the emergency crews arrived.
If this happened then they stole his ID too. That would be another person who could have anonymously provided the information, but didn't.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/behindbars.gif
Mullins
01-04-2006, 01:47 PM
:woohoo: I like you on your soapbox.
Considering that I have two children both in this young man's age range and I would pray that if anything were to happen to them, that someone would try to find me. Kids can do somethings that adults do not understand and things can jst plain happen to cause problems within a family. This young man deserves to have his name known, he deserves to have a final resting place instead of in the coroner's office on a shelf. He deserves this because he was a human being and no one deserves to be unknown. He had no drugs in his system at the time of the accident, just maybe everyone that followed or attended Grateful Dead concerts were not druggies. Maybe he just liked the music. So, I believe that being unidentified is enough of a reason to try and help someone. If he were killed leaving a church function, would this have been more of a reason to try and help him???
Many of the missing in the world, just went out to the store or to a friend's house, this did make them targets? People are targets because there are so many sick and demented people out there, that do not care. Compare the number of people connected in some way with the Grateful Dead and the then compare how many people were last seen on the way to a friend's house or that were last seen at work...
It does not matter if the person is strung out on drugs and selling their bodies on the streets to support their habits... they are humans and someone loves them... And everyone should care!
STEPPING OFF MY SOAP BOX NOW!
marylandmissing
01-04-2006, 03:03 PM
Trying2ID your post was very well said! http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/clap.gif
Another perspective?
Back in the early 70s there was a body that local law enforcement was trying to identify. It was a traffic accident. The man who died was not a transient, but had no identification.
I was a kid, and since everyone was talking about this news I asked my mom why someone wouldn't come forward to claim him... was he alone in the world?
My mom explained to me that it could be that he was alone in the world, or that the family didn't live in the city, or it could be that the family didn't have enough money to pay for a funeral. My reaction was http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif about that. She explained to me that there was assistance available to pay for a funeral, if a family couldn't afford it, but not everyone knew about it, or for various reasons would not take it. They knew that the government would bury their loved ones and just the knowledge that they died was enough for them.
For awhile I was doing a little research on the cases that were solved by the DoeNetwork and what went wrong. Did a little presentation on this once for law enforcement...What I've seen continually is this:
A. Number one reason is age estimations of the unknown are off. Police may be searching for someone 20-25 when the missing person is 35, and therefore they won't get a hit through NCIC on it.
B. Person isn't reported missing. We've had several at Doe who were never reported missing, but family came to the site for assistance. Various reasons - missing was in trouble with the law, family was estranged and not allowed 'legally' to report the person missing, prime suspect is the one who didn't report them missing, or they were ignorant on how to report a person missing or if the report was still active.
C. Missing was not from the US
D. Foster child who ran more than several states over.
E. AFIS and DNA didn't exist. Florida and other states have cleared up a dozen or so UNID cases by rerunning fingerprints (many didn't have access to national fingerprint databases years ago).
F. Drifters who were reported missing in another state.
G. No one knows exactly when the person went missing, and therefore an estimated date is put into the system. We've seen several cases on Doe where the missing date was July, body found prior, and it matched up.
H. Person disappeared prior to 1985 and the missing person report wasn't in the system anymore.
PonderingThings
01-04-2006, 03:56 PM
Wow! What a wealth of information you provided MarylandMissing. It does help explain some of the reasons why so many people remain unidentified! It is my opinion, that in the vast majority of cases authorities did their best to identify the Jane or John Doe. That's why its so perplexing! How can someone be searched for, by people who very much know what they are doing, and not be found? Your post has given us a glimpse of some very valid reasons why. Thank you!
I do have one outstanding question and perhaps you know the answer to it. If someone is declared legally dead is their missing person's information removed from the NCIC database?
babydust2004
01-04-2006, 09:34 PM
this case has haunted me.as a matter of fact this case being posted on websleuths last year is how I became aware of thedoenetwork and joined them.
I came across a possible match today.I would like everyone's opinions
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/127umva.html
and
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/106dmmi.html
a couple of things that seem as possible matches to me,the missing was apparently wearing a rock band tshirt.not to say he would be wearing the same shirt after all those years but people tend to wear the same type of clothes.the last picture on the missing page the nose seems to me to be a perfect match.the height,weight,hair color all seem to be close and hazel eyes could be mistaken for brown.age also seems to be within range.let me know what you all think
Mr. E
01-04-2006, 09:46 PM
The one thing that strikes me about the unidentified boy is that his nose looks crooked. Was there any mention of a broken nose?
PonderingThings
01-04-2006, 10:00 PM
BabyDust2004 there is no doubt that there is a startling resemblance. The stats also match, even though he disappeared 5 years before. He'd be 1 year older and 1" taller than the estimates for John Doe.
I KNOW I researched Christopher Alan Temple before in relation to this John Doe. I don't remember why I didn't pursue it.
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/127UMVA1.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/CTemple.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/127UMVA2.jpg
trying2id
01-04-2006, 11:35 PM
The one thing that strikes me about the unidentified boy is that his nose looks crooked. Was there any mention of a broken nose?
The concern that I have is that he knocked out the windshield of the VW van is was traveling in, so how true are the pictures or sketches? From what the LE has told me, that most of the damage was to his face. First the windshield and then into a tree, face first. I have managed to get someone within the doenetwork to update the hair color information to reflect that it had been dyed red, mailing him copies of the accident records. The missing children's website is another story, I spoke with Tracey about the hair color way back in July and she also knew of the dye and has yet to correct it in their system. :banghead:
Beyond Belief
01-05-2006, 06:10 AM
Those two really do look alike.
Are we thinking the note was from someone he was with at the concert? Maybe someone who left him there? Has further investigation been done into the driver of the car and his relationship with the passenger? Were the tickets used? Did the driver have a ticket? Was the driver known to have gone to the concert? Could there have been other passengers in the car who left the scene?
Richard
01-05-2006, 08:46 AM
Hi
I am very aware of this unidentified young man.As I read about him I thought of a AA or NA program where they say like carolyn o or carolyn T so they do not say thier last name to keep thier anonymity. Maybe he was travling to the concert. Suzanne
I looked in my old file of notes on this case. Here is what I was told by a person who suggested that this young man might have been a "Wharf Rat":
"Most likely Jason was a Wharf Rat. Caroline T. would be a reference to Caroline Thomas. She is the founder of the wharf rats. She lives in Arizona now (1998). I believe I have met the gentleman in question at a few wharf rat tables at shows."
Following questions for clarification, the following information was related:
" The Wharf Rats are an organization of people that are Grateful Dead fans and are in recovery from drug and alcohol abuse. The Wharf Rats hold 12 step recovery meetings during the set break of the Grateful Dead or related show between the first and second sets of music. Caroline Thomas is the founder of the organization. This would definitely explain why only initials were used instead of full last names. His description sounds very familiar and it is totally possible that I may have met him at one time or another. The only Jason that I know that fit that description was from the Bighampton (sp?), NY area and no one seems to ever know where he is. This (the unidentified case) unfortunately could be the reason why."
My efforts to locate this Caroline Thomas were unsuccessful.
Richard
01-05-2006, 09:10 AM
... Are we thinking the note was from someone he was with at the concert? Maybe someone who left him there? Has further investigation been done into the driver of the car and his relationship with the passenger? Were the tickets used? Did the driver have a ticket? Was the driver known to have gone to the concert? Could there have been other passengers in the car who left the scene?
The ticket stubs had been used and were for successive days of the RFK concert; June 24 and 25. It was believed by investigators that the unknown hitch hiker had attended both days of the concert and that he had bought the tickets from a scalper at the event. In his pocket with the ticket stubs were four quarters, a yellow lighter, and the note which stated; "To Jason, Sorry we had to go. See you around. Caroline O. and Caroline T."
It is not certain if his name is actually Jason, or if that was a nickname, or if the note was even to him.
The driver of the van was identified rather quickly, through his driver's license, vehicle registration, and other items. He was evidently a fan of the Grateful Dead, but had NOT attended the RFK concerts in Washington DC. He had spent the previous day with his fiance, and had left Fairfax, VA very early in the morning of 26 June 1995, headed south on I-95.
It is felt that he picked up the unknown hitch hiker on I-95 just south of Fairfax and headed south, stopping briefly at the home of his (the driver's) father, where the two young men were seen by a neighbor. Because the father was not home, the son left a note stating that he was heading further south to his mother's house, which was in Inman, South Carolina.
The van continued south on I-95 to the southernmost part of Virginia, then took the exit at Emporia, VA to head west on Highway 58. After a few miles, the van left the road and crashed into some loblolly pines. The driver and the hitch hiker were both ejected through the van's winshield and both were killed instantly from head injuries. The driver was identified and his family notified, but none in his family knew who the hitch hiker was.
His identity is still unknown after ten years.
Paradise
01-05-2006, 01:04 PM
BabyDust2004 there is no doubt that there is a startling resemblance. The stats also match, even though he disappeared 5 years before. He'd be 1 year older and 1" taller than the estimates for John Doe.
I KNOW I researched Christopher Alan Temple before in relation to this John Doe. I don't remember why I didn't pursue it.
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/127UMVA1.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/CTemple.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/127UMVA2.jpgI was about to post this the other day but I checked the PM database on doenetwork and saw that they had already been ruled out. :( I really thought they had to be one in the same.
Ms Suzanne
01-05-2006, 01:54 PM
Hi
Where do you think he was from?(The note had a phone number with a 914 prefix)where do you think that # came out of? The phone book says Fallschurch/McLean area.area code 571-703 (AA - unity club house.) Fallschurch,Virginia. NA-Narcotics anonomous-NORVANA-P.O box 7113
Fallschurch,virginia.
He was coming from the concert?Maybe putting up his picture in AA club houses or showing his picture at NA meetings someone will reconise him.From washington DC past virginia?he looks young to be in AA.But AA does have young people.They don't use the carolyn T or Carolyn o too much in NA.Are these wharf rat meetings still going on?Maybe someone will know something there now.
Suzanne
P.S.Are there any newspaper articles on him?
PonderingThings
01-05-2006, 04:33 PM
I believe he's been featured on some Grateful Dead Fan club sites.
Paradise do you know how he was ruled out? DNA? Dentals?
There is a site that someone has listed all the people who have been ruled out as possible matches to this John Doe. I know I've seen it, but now I can't find it again http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/doh.gif I don't know if Christopher is on that list or not.
marylandmissing
01-05-2006, 05:53 PM
Those two really do look alike.
Are we thinking the note was from someone he was with at the concert? Maybe someone who left him there? Has further investigation been done into the driver of the car and his relationship with the passenger? Were the tickets used? Did the driver have a ticket? Was the driver known to have gone to the concert? Could there have been other passengers in the car who left the scene?
A caseworker at Child Quest told me the driver of the van's mother calls there often to see if the boy has been ID'D. He was picked up hitchhiking.
Ms Suzanne
01-05-2006, 06:21 PM
Hi
That's sad.
Suzanne
Ms Suzanne
01-05-2006, 06:46 PM
Hi
He was hitchhiking away from the concert?and away from Virginia?So he might not have been from virginia?Richard,Trying2id where do you think he was from?Maybe he was reported missing later after he died.When someone did not hear from him in awhile.
suzanne
Richard
01-05-2006, 11:48 PM
Hi
He was hitchhiking away from the concert?and away from Virginia?So he might not have been from virginia?Richard,Trying2id where do you think he was from?Maybe he was reported missing later after he died.When someone did not hear from him in awhile. suzanne
I do not know where he was from or where he was going. As I mentioned in an earlier post, there were a lot of leads and possibilities, placing him at various different states. I have a feeling that he was pretty much a drifter with no exact destination or schedule to keep.
He was not following the Grateful Dead, as they had headed north to Michigan and then to Pittsburg. The hitch hiker was headed south the entire length of Virginia, but stayed with the driver when he turned west toward north central North Carolina and then South Carolina. So he was probably not going to Georgia or Florida. If that were the case, his better bet would have been to head further south on I-95.
In the course of posting his case and contacting people all over the country about him, I also learned of other people who were looking for relatives or friends who were "deadheads" and who were missing. At least, they were missing from home. It makes you wonder. If a person lives a life of travel and does not keep in touch with his/her family, the tendancy of the family to begin a search for him/her might lessen after a while.
Beyond Belief
01-05-2006, 11:55 PM
The thing was he didn't have anything with him. Would the driver really want a dirty guy going home with him. Two days at a concert, you have to smell like a dead fish.
Paradise
01-06-2006, 03:39 AM
I believe he's been featured on some Grateful Dead Fan club sites.
Paradise do you know how he was ruled out? DNA? Dentals?
There is a site that someone has listed all the people who have been ruled out as possible matches to this John Doe. I know I've seen it, but now I can't find it again http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/doh.gif I don't know if Christopher is on that list or not.
It doesn't say how he was ruled out, but it was done by NCMEC. I PM'd you a list of the rule outs.
Helper
01-12-2006, 06:29 PM
This fellow's eyes are the "wrong color", but there seems to be similarities. Aron Holmes Silverman went missing July 5, 1993 from Norfolk, Virginia, two years before this fellow was killed and not that far away. At 5'10", his height is in the appropriate range. He had long blonde hair. At 130 lb., he was slimmer than the deceased, but there is the two year time difference. Blue eyes vs. brown seems to be the major possible discrepency. Age seems to be about right.
Young Mr. Silverman played the guitar and apparently had a drug habit, so it doesn't seem unlikely he'd wind up at a Grateful Dead show.
Aron is No. 516DMVA on the Doe Network and NCMC No. 783972. You can read about him and see a photo at www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/silverman_aron.html (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/silverman_aron.html).
Helper
01-12-2006, 06:50 PM
Another missing fellow I figured is worthy of a look is Phillip Koss, who disappeared from Florida three days before the Grateful Dead began the East Coast leg of their Summer 1995 tour. Long hair, brown eyes. Seems a bit tall at six foot. He's 1389DMFL on the Doe Network.
Paradise
01-12-2006, 09:10 PM
Aron Holmes Silverman has been previously ruled out by doenetwork. There's no other information about it.
PonderingThings
01-13-2006, 06:40 PM
Helper Mr. Koss does look like the victim, but I suspect that the listed height of 6' would rule him out (as you mentioned).
I could only find the Charley Project and Doe Network pages on him, and they have the same information, so odds are it isn't an error.
Mr. Koss is not on the list I received about the "rule outs"
PonderingThings
01-13-2006, 08:22 PM
This is a big long shot... but I thought the photos looked enough like our young victim to post.
My concerns are outlined below.
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/109dmca.html
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/127UMVA1.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/CHuntzinger.jpghttp://www.doenetwork.us/cases/images/127UMVA2.jpg
John Doe on left & right, Curtis Huntzinger Center
Curtis Anthony Huntzinger
Missing since May 19, 1990 from Blue Lake, Humboldt County, California.
Classification: Endangered Runaway
# Vital Statistics Date Of Birth: August 23, 1975
# Age at Time of Disappearance: 14 years old
# Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'2; 110 pounds
# Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Brown hair; hazel eyes.
# Marks, Scars: Scar on shin
# Clothing: Black jacket, blue jeans and tennis shoes
# Dentals: Available
1. Curtis disappeared in 1990. That means he would have been 19 in 1995 when John Doe was found. Age for John Doe is estimated at 16-21, so that matches.
2. I think the photo of Curtis looks like the reconstruction, especially when taking into account that it was taken 5 years before.
3. When Curtis disappeared he was listed as 5'2". Could he have grown to 5'6" while a teenager? I think so, but unsure as there is no info.
4. Both Curtis and John Doe had brown hair.
5. Curtis had hazel eyes and John Doe had brown eyes. This is possibly a listing discrepancy as I've seen brown eyes listed as Hazel before.
6. Curtis has a scar on his shin that John Doe doesn't have. How big of a scar? Could it be simply so small now, especially after a growth spurt (if it happened) that it wasn't mentioned?
7. Police think Curtis was possibly murdered by an inmate who said he killed him. The man, who lived nearby, had molested him just days before. Is it possible that Curtis ran away from California and that's why he was on the east coast?
8, Curtis is NOT on the rule out list I received.
Paradise
01-14-2006, 02:41 AM
As far as I know no one has submitted Curtis and he has not been ruled out.
PonderingThings
03-14-2006, 04:46 PM
The Doe Network has updated their page on John Doe.
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/127umva.html
The height has been revised to:
5'8" (5'7-5'9")
Richard
03-14-2006, 07:07 PM
The Doe Network has updated their page on John Doe.
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/127umva.html
The height has been revised to:
5'8" (5'7-5'9")
The height of 5 feet 8 inches is correct. At least that is what it was in the earliest reports that I have on the case. I am sure that the origional Doenetwork listing of 5'6" was simply a typo.
It does illustrate, however, that you can't take everything you see in print at face value when trying to make matches.
trying2id
03-15-2006, 09:05 AM
~Back on my soap box~
I would like to thank this site for not trying to make 127umva's hair red as a natural color. As I have stated the correct height in my site for him as 5"8' to 5"10' the entire time. I did a great amount of research on this young man before I ever built his site, since I believe that only the correct facts will be able to give him back his name. I have spent 100s of hours in my search and posted everything that I have found only after speaking with others to confirm what I had already been told by others. I have found that very often, the story gets changed over and over on this young man, which really makes me wonder just what is really going on. I have atleast one e-mail a week concerning possible matches for him from people that have seen his site. He is posted any and everywhere I cound find a spot to post him. I have spoken with someone that was there when he was removed from the vehicle, someone that was there when they cleaned him up, and also someone that has actual photos of him (that they will not release). I have also spoken with a member of the cold case group of a site that stated herself that his height was 5"8' and maybe closer to 5"9' if he was standing upright. LE has actually contacted me concerning this young man. PLEASE LET IT BE NOTED THAT I SPOKE WITH ALL THESE PEOPLE BEFORE I JOINED A GROUP THAT SHALL REMAIN NAMELESS. Now all I can do is pass the information that I find on to others and pray that they follow up on it.
I spent 3 months searching for who he is with the incorrect information before I decided to fire up the old cell phone and call any and every one I could for information. Of which I found that a lot is not released due to privacy issues... whose privacy are they protecting. They don't even know the answer to that question... I am only trying to give them that answer.
~Stepping down~
Thanks again for keeping his topic in this forum out there for people to see and for not changing the facts of his case.
This is a link to his site http://www.geocities.com/trying2id/JDpage.html Please take a look at it.
PonderingThings
03-15-2006, 04:00 PM
uhhhhh just a point of view from the other side of the soap box.
I made a post that a particular site, that many people use for research, had updated their page.
I did not offer an opinion as to whether it was a correction, or whether it was new information, simply that the page on their site was updated and what the revision was.
Since I personally am not, nor have I ever been, a Doe Network member, I have no idea what made them revise the info.
I, personally, shall think twice before sharing any such update information in the future here at websleuths though.
MagicRose99
03-15-2006, 04:25 PM
I know I'm pretty new here... I've been trying to catch up on all the posts in this place (big job!) and I'm nowhere in the league with even ideas as most of you people are...
But, I do see you contribute to a lot of threads. You provoke me into thinking... and thinking different things. I find your input invaluable.
Please don't let one person who apparently has their own agenda (promoting his/her own website and/or views) discourage you from participating in ANY thread...
As a newbie here, I can tell you I'd miss your views and input. You do make me stop and think a lot of the times... and all views should be welcome whether they are viable, wrong, right, etc. The more shared the more value the thread is... IMO. :blushing:
uhhhhh just a point of view from the other side of the soap box.
I made a post that a particular site, that many people use for research, had updated their page.
I did not offer an opinion as to whether it was a correction, or whether it was new information, simply that the page on their site was updated and what the revision was.
Since I personally am not, nor have I ever been, a Doe Network member, I have no idea what made them revise the info.
I, personally, shall think twice before sharing any such update information in the future here at websleuths though.
Montanagirl
03-15-2006, 06:57 PM
Bravo, Magic Rose! I myself am a BIG fan of Pondering so would miss their insite and compassion. :blushing:
docwho3
03-15-2006, 08:57 PM
uhhhhh just a point of view from the other side of the soap box.
I made a post that a particular site, that many people use for research, had updated their page.
I did not offer an opinion as to whether it was a correction, or whether it was new information, simply that the page on their site was updated and what the revision was.
Since I personally am not, nor have I ever been, a Doe Network member, I have no idea what made them revise the info.
I, personally, shall think twice before sharing any such update information in the future here at websleuths though.Hang in there. I am with you. You did nothing wrong. Keep up the good work.
P.S. I had a troublesome tooth pulled yesterday. It is nice to not wake up with a mild tooth ache every day. Maybe I won't be as quick to growl as before.
amazing-sea-monkey
03-15-2006, 10:05 PM
Not to say that this victim is NOT Chris Temple... BUT.....
I am very close to the area where Chris Temple went missing. The area he was reportedly last seen is a very marshy area with many bogs. It is believed by many (some LE included) that he drowned in a quicksand type bog. I remember hearing that LE found one of this tennis shoes very near a bog. The kids he was partying with have all said the same thing, that he went off to go to the bathroom and never reappeared. I remember flyers being posted all over East Lansing, his parents owned a very popular shoe store in the heart of our college town. They were well liked and this case got a lot of local publicity.
Richard
03-15-2006, 10:18 PM
Not to say that this victim is NOT Chris Temple... BUT.....
I am very close to the area where Chris Temple went missing. The area he was reportedly last seen is a very marshy area with many bogs. It is believed by many (some LE included) that he drowned in a quicksand type bog. I remember hearing that LE found one of this tennis shoes very near a bog. The kids he was partying with have all said the same thing, that he went off to go to the bathroom and never reappeared. I remember flyers being posted all over East Lansing, his parents owned a very popular shoe store in the heart of our college town. They were well liked and this case got a lot of local publicity.
Have you started a thread on Chris? I know that there are a lot of rivers, lakes and swamps in Michigan, but quicksand? I would like to hear more about him. Doesn't sound like the circumstances would make him much of a match for this Grateful Dead Fan, however. Have you checked out the thread on Laurie Murnigham? She disappeared from Lansing in 1970. By the way, Go State!
PonderingThings
03-16-2006, 05:54 AM
I want to THANK those of you who posted encouraging words to me on this thread, and in PMs http://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/blowkises.gif .
amazing-sea-monkey that is terrific background, thanks for supplying it!
trying2id
03-16-2006, 09:24 AM
Pondering,
I was trying in no way to say anything that would upset you. I think it is great that you posted that the site had been updated. I have tried so many times to have things updated for this young man and no one seems to listen. I in no way what so ever meant to offend you, I too enjoy reading your post on this site. You offer a lot with no only your research but also with your opinions. We all are here for the same purpose and that is to bring families back together. My post was to thank this site and the admin here for not believing everything that is posted as the only thing that can be true. I found found that many refuse to think outside of the box. Some people that bring harm to others do not always cause demise to others and then drop them within 100 miles of where they grabbed them. Things happen and sometimes these things a very strange, therefore I find it hard to see why most want to look only "inside of the box". It is people that ponder everything and throw those thoughts out for others to think about that help to uphold our mission here and elsewhere.
Once again Pondering I am very sorry if in anyway I made you feel that I am in anyway trying to downgrade your research or opinions.
welder 79
03-16-2006, 11:53 AM
this is no easy 1 lol. i been working on it too..close i found is a moore boy from wv. but date's wrong and left shoulder he had a sun not a star..this not as easy as it look's
marylandmissing
03-16-2006, 03:09 PM
Trying2ID,
I found an email from 3 years ago I exchanged with child find about this doe. I am sending it to you...
amazing-sea-monkey
03-16-2006, 03:59 PM
I have not started a thread about Chris, however, I worked in downtown East Lansing at the time he went missing. I remember it very well as I was right in and around his parents' shoe store and there were posters up in every window. My aunt is very much into collecting and gathering wildflowers, so she is very familiar with the Rose Lake Nature Area and she is the one that told me of all the marshy areas. She said you could easily sink and drown and that it is much like quicksand. She called them marshes with "False Bottoms." She said that once she was there collecting flowers and the ground was actually moving beneath her feet!! She is NOT one to exaggerate, so I take this as gospel truth. Anyway, I do remember them finding a tennis shoe believed to belong to Chris or proven to belong to him, I can't remember which and all the speculation that he met his fate right then and there. It seems to me also that the parents have laid quite low in all this. I don't see them on the news, etc. You don't see it reported about or even mentioned on crime stoppers or anything as far as cold cases go. Yes, several areas in Michigan do have bogs, quicksand I call them. There is a little village near me called Pewamo. In Pewamo there is a brook/creek called "Stony Creek." My husband, myself and my brother in law were fishing by Stony Creek one day and I went to jump from the edge of the water to the bank. It was quicksand/marsh land and I sunk in IMMEDIATELY all the way to my waist. I was panicking terribly as it was too dense to crawl out of. It was the most horrifying feeling. The more I pushed with my feet the quicker I sank, there was no ground, it was bottomless. My brother in law helped me get out. I remember this one silly detail... I had shiny spandex pants on and it took the sheen right off them!! Later on a farmer told us that he had lost a cow in all that marshland. Scary but true... Ahhh... Michigan- Loving all four seasons! and yes Damn right I'M A SPARTAN!
azure
03-20-2006, 01:33 AM
I'm pretty sure this wasn't posted on this thread before, so forgive me if I'm missing it. I found the following in a post by trying2id from last year:
The things I know...
1. Caroline Thomas claims to not be Caroline T from the note.
2. JD hit the windshield of the van and then a pine tree on the other side of the glass. So height could be off some.
3. The LE doesn't remember hardly anything about the case and refuses to pick up the file and give me any information.... such as scars, birthmarks, or former injuries. (He was quoted in an article that he has been bothered by this case since it happened, yet when I spoke with him, he knew nothing.)
4. The rumor about him be Chris Rainbow and know LSD dealer at GD concerts.... This is not the person and No the DEA officers do not know anyone by that name. I have spoken with a very dear friend of mine that knows how much this means to me, so believe he would tell me the truth.
So apparently Caroline Thomas was contacted and claims not to be involved.
Also, I thought I remembered that the phone number from the note had no area code. Is this correct? In that case, we're looking across the country for phone numbers that go "914-XXXX", belonging to a "Caroline"?
Kelly
azure
03-20-2006, 02:12 AM
Okay, I confirmed on the Doenetwork page that there was no area code. I've seen a lot of speculation that Jason Doe was local to the MD/PA area, since he bought tickets to this show in PA and there was no Grateful Dead show there.
I've identified the following areas having a 914 prefix that are reasonably close. I suspect that these girls may have been local to him since they didn't include an area code. This may be faulty logic, but it does help narrow our search.
The areas are:
(area code) prefix location
(201) 914 Hackensack, NJ
(267) 914 Philadelphia Suburb, PA
(304) 914 Weirton, WV
(410) 914 Churchville, MD
(419) 914 Van Wert, OH
(443) 914 Baltimore, MD
(609) 914 Mount Holly, NJ
(610) 914 Reading, PA
(617) 914 Boston, MA
(704) 914 Charlotte, NC
(717) 914 Harrisburg, PA
(724) 914 Washington, PA
(732) 914 Toms River, NJ
(740) 914 London, OH
(781) 914 Worcester, MA
(804) 914 Chester, VA
(859) 914 Covington, OH
(908) 914 Newark, NJ
(910) 914 Whiteville, NC
(919) 914 Chapel Hill, NC
(937) 914 Dayton, OH
I did not include wireless numbers, and there's no way of knowing whether this list was the same in 1995.
I think that locations close to where the victim was supposed to be from and locations along the route he could have taken going south are important. Not sure what could even come of this, but maybe someone can think of something.
Kelly
marylandmissing
03-20-2006, 11:29 AM
A couple years ago, I found an email on Missing Person Cyber Center from 2000 for a sister looking for her brother "Jason" who was living in Baltimore, MD who had not seen him since 1995. This was turned over to VA state police.
I came across this missing person at Doe network and it reminded me of this unidentified
boy. I do not know how to link a page from doe network here so I am just going to put the case number up and prehaps someone else can put up a link.
Case file 1175DMCA, his name is Peter John McColl, and he disspeared in 1995.
Aside from some physical similarites. Admittingly the physical similarites are not overwhelming The height is the slightly off but the weight is the same. What really stood out for me is this boys nickname is listed as Rainbow. I recall reading this unidentified Greatful Dead boy was thought to be someone with the nik name rainbow who frequented Greatful Dead concerts. What do you all think?
mjak
christine2448
04-02-2006, 11:35 PM
I came across this missing person at Doe network and it reminded me of this unidentified
boy. I do not know how to link a page from doe network here so I am just going to put the case number up and prehaps someone else can put up a link.
Case file 1175DMCA, his name is Peter John McColl, and he disspeared in 1995.
Aside from some physical similarites. Admittingly the physical similarites are not overwhelming The height is the slightly off but the weight is the same. What really stood out for me is this boys nickname is listed as Rainbow. I recall reading this unidentified Greatful Dead boy was thought to be someone with the nik name rainbow who frequented Greatful Dead concerts. What do you all think?
mjak
Hiya MJAK...I was going to do the posting of the info and pictures for you...but the first thing I noticed when researching Peter McColl was that he went missing on 8/28/05....our Greatful Dead Fan was found deceased on 6/26/05, so Peter was not yet missing. :(
Sorry....but DON'T GIVE UP! Keep searching!
Hiya MJAK...I was going to do the posting of the info and pictures for you...but the first thing I noticed when researching Peter McColl was that he went missing on 8/28/05....our Greatful Dead Fan was found deceased on 6/26/05, so Peter was not yet missing. :(
Sorry....but DON'T GIVE UP! Keep searching!
Okay, I am losing my mind then because I originaly discounted this potential match because of the dates. Then I was at a site yesterday which listed the greatful dead boy as found in June of 1996! So I rethought the possibility.
Thanks for trying to help Christine.
mjak
Richard
04-03-2006, 11:15 AM
Okay, I am losing my mind then because I originaly discounted this potential match because of the dates. Then I was at a site yesterday which listed the greatful dead boy as found in June of 1996! So I rethought the possibility.
Thanks for trying to help Christine. mjakThe actual date of the boy's death is 26 June 1995. But your posts illustrate that mistakes can be and are made from time to time - and look at the difference one digit can make!
Regarding a "missing" date: The same typo problems can just as easily occur. But also, sometimes the dates are listed as the date that a person is REPORTED missing, or maybe someone just remembers it wrong.
Don't automatically discount a potential match based on any one bit of information. Question it, but don't rule it out.
christine2448
04-03-2006, 01:04 PM
The actual date of the boy's death is 26 June 1995. But your posts illustrate that mistakes can be and are made from time to time - and look at the difference one digit can make!
Regarding a "missing" date: The same typo problems can just as easily occur. But also, sometimes the dates are listed as the date that a person is REPORTED missing, or maybe someone just remembers it wrong.
Don't automatically discount a potential match based on any one bit of information. Question it, but don't rule it out.
Great advice Richard, I hadn't thought of that, sorry Mjak...please take Richards advice...he is exactly right, I should have thought of that before I posted what I did...thanks Richard.
Ms Suzanne
04-03-2006, 10:44 PM
Hi
I believe the 914 is around the Falls Church,Mc lean Virginia area.look in city directories (old phone books)for 1995.She may have moved.maybe even 1994 and 1996 too.Look for both of them.
suzanne
marylandmissing
04-04-2006, 11:25 AM
The actual date of the boy's death is 26 June 1995. But your posts illustrate that mistakes can be and are made from time to time - and look at the difference one digit can make!
Regarding a "missing" date: The same typo problems can just as easily occur. But also, sometimes the dates are listed as the date that a person is REPORTED missing, or maybe someone just remembers it wrong.
Don't automatically discount a potential match based on any one bit of information. Question it, but don't rule it out.
True, R...There's a case in VA like this...The family hadn't spoke to the missing for many many years until they saw the husband on tv arrested for murder. It was then they tried to locate her, and after several months, the police realized she was missing. The only date they could list was December because she didn't show up for a child custody hearing. She very likely disappeared up to six months prior to that.
outofthedark
04-23-2006, 03:40 PM
I sometimes thought that the name that the name "Jason" was maybe an identifying factor about the JD...
If he had a tatoo of a 5-pointed star on his left arm and it's pictured on the Doe Network- don't you think somebody would have recognized it by now? If somebody knows who this JD is- wouldn't they be able to know it was by the tatoo itself
Just a little thought and ponder...
bykerladi
04-23-2006, 06:33 PM
I don't personally have a tatoo, HOWEVER I have often heard that tatoo artists can recognize a tatoo as one of their tatoos or sometimes name the artist who did that tatoo. Has anyone taken a pic of the tatoo to local parlors to see if an artist recognizes it?
Nevermind. I just reread the doe network listing and it's a "homemade" tatoo.
Well a five pointed star is either a star of david or a pentagon, so....
Anyone check with local temples or pagan groups?
By the way, why is JDs nose so offcenter in the doe network reconstructions?
outofthedark
04-23-2006, 07:19 PM
I don't personally have a tatoo, HOWEVER I have often heard that tatoo artists can recognize a tatoo as one of their tatoos or sometimes name the artist who did that tatoo. Has anyone taken a pic of the tatoo to local parlors to see if an artist recognizes it?
Nevermind. I just reread the doe network listing and it's a "homemade" tatoo.
Well a five pointed star is either a star of david or a pentagon, so....
Anyone check with local temples or pagan groups?
By the way, why is JDs nose so offcenter in the doe network reconstructions?
Whoever did that tatoo would probably recognize their own work- but maybe not exactly the person they did it on... for all we know- maybe somebody who didn't know the JD did that 5-pointed star tatoo- but then that chance of that having happened would be slim- whoever did that tatoo most likely knew the JD or the JD did that tatoo himself- it's hard to tell...
But I think the star of david was yellow- though... and a pentagon is a star in a circle
reportertype
04-23-2006, 11:02 PM
A star of David is six-pointed. It doesn't have to be yellow.
outofthedark
04-23-2006, 11:46 PM
A star of David is six-pointed. It doesn't have to be yellow.
I might have been thinking of the star that people had to wear during WWII
Thanks for the info about the star of David! :)
Richard
04-24-2006, 12:24 AM
I... why is JDs nose so offcenter in the doe network reconstructions?
The sketch of the young man appeared in newspapers shortly after the accident which took his life. I recall seeing it in the Washington Times on the first year anniversary of his death. The accident occurred when the van in which the John Doe was riding left the road and ran into a copse of Loblolly pine trees. The driver and passenger were both ejected forward through the windshield and into the trees. Both died instantly from head injuries they received.
The artist who drew the composite sketch was working from photographs of the dead man, and he did the best he could under the circumstances. He was not a medical expert, and therefor did not know if damage to the nose may have occurred prior to the crash.
The clay bust is a later rendition, but I do not believe that it was done strictly by modeling on a skull or a cast of the skull. It was most likely done from photographs of the body.
This young man's body found within minutes of the crash and was initially kept in freezer storage at the Medical Examiner's Office in Richmond, VA, awaiting identification.
The tattoos mentioned were rather crude and most likely done by the unknown man himself.
outofthedark
04-24-2006, 12:39 AM
The sketch of the young man appeared in newspapers shortly after the accident which took his life. I recall seeing it in the Washington Times on the first year anniversary of his death. The accident occurred when the van in which the John Doe was riding left the road and ran into a copse of Loblolly pine trees. The driver and passenger were both ejected forward through the windshield and into the trees. Both died instantly from head injuries they received.
The artist who drew the composite sketch was working from photographs of the dead man, and he did the best he could under the circumstances. He was not a medical expert, and therefor did not know if damage to the nose may have occurred prior to the crash.
The clay bust is a later rendition, but I do not believe that it was done strictly by modeling on a skull or a cast of the skull. It was most likely done from photographs of the body.
This young man's body found within minutes of the crash and was initially kept in freezer storage at the Medical Examiner's Office in Richmond, VA, awaiting identification.
The tattoos mentioned were rather crude and most likely done by the unknown man himself.
That's what I guessed about the tatoo myself...
reportertype
04-24-2006, 01:08 AM
No prob, outofthedark. They were yellow during WWII, an ID for Jews. Anyway, about the tattoo's origins, crude or homemade tattoos are often found on people who have been in jail or prison. Of course, as Richard said, he may have done it himself, or had a friend do it.
outofthedark
04-24-2006, 01:29 PM
No prob, outofthedark. They were yellow during WWII, an ID for Jews. Anyway, about the tattoo's origins, crude or homemade tattoos are often found on people who have been in jail or prison. Of course, as Richard said, he may have done it himself, or had a friend do it.
There's photos of Jewish people wearing the yellow ID star in a book I have on Anne Frank
Amy Noel
05-24-2006, 06:31 PM
Hello I am new posting here. I have read all the posts on this case. I live in Virginia, and used to be a Grateful Dead fan myself. So when I heard about this case I found it very sad. But more to the point I've been doing a little searching on the net myself and found a few possibilities... I know someone had posted that a few missing people had been ruled out and that they had a list, one being http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1043dmut.html (Jack Jason Simmons)... which is such a striking resemblance its hard to believe that its not him! But anyway I found a few others that I haven't seen mentioned or do not remember seeing posted... http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/962dmar.html ( Jarrod Devlin Green)
I know it says he has a "Taz" tattoo but I thought I read somewhere that the unidentified man had another tattoo, but it never said what it was. But the Berkinstock sandals stuck out in my mind, its just a type of shoe Deadheads are known for. And then I found...http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1183dmmd.html
( Donald Lee Izzett )... and... http://doenetwork.us/cases/1319dmtx.html (Ricky Lee Jones)... and...http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1191dmin.html (David Barlow) Last one is probably a real long shot but It says he was last seen before July 7th, which could actually be sometime in June, since I doesn't actually say when he was last seen... they may not know when he disappeared... which was something else I was looking into... the unidentified man, may not have been reported missing until well after his death, espeically if he was'nt expected anywhere anytime soon, he may have told his family and/or friends that he was traveling across country for the summer, whether following the "Dead" or not, so he may not have been missed until late August or early September... just a thought! Anyway let me know what you think.
Amy Noel
05-24-2006, 06:52 PM
Hello I am new posting here. I have read all the posts on this case. I live in Virginia, and used to be a Grateful Dead fan myself. So when I heard about this case I found it very sad. But more to the point I've been doing a little searching on the net myself and found a few possibilities... I know someone had posted that a few missing people had been ruled out and that they had a list, one being http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1043dmut.html (Jack Jason Simmons)... which is such a striking resemblance its hard to believe that its not him! But anyway I found a few others that I haven't seen mentioned or do not remember seeing posted... http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/962dmar.html ( Jarrod Devlin Green)
I know it says he has a "Taz" tattoo but I thought I read somewhere that the unidentified man had another tattoo but it never said what it was. But the Berkinstock sandals stuck out in my mind, its just a type of shoe Deadheads are known for. And then I found...http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1183dmmd.html
( Donald Lee Izzett )... and... http://doenetwork.us/cases/1319dmtx.html (Ricky Lee Jones)... and...http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1191dmin.html (David Barlow) Last one is probably a real long shot but It says he was last seen before July 7th, which could actually be sometime in June, since I doesn't actually say when he was last seen... they may not know when he disappeared... which was something else I was looking into... the unidentified man, may not have been reported missing until well after his death, espeically if he wasn't expected anywhere anytime soon, he may have told his family and/or friends that he was traveling across country for the summer, whether following the "Dead" or not so he may not have been missed until late August or early September... just a thought! Anyway let me know what you think.
wondering22
05-24-2006, 08:25 PM
No prob, outofthedark. They were yellow during WWII, an ID for Jews. Anyway, about the tattoo's origins, crude or homemade tattoos are often found on people who have been in jail or prison. Of course, as Richard said, he may have done it himself, or had a friend do it.
I don't know about that, but I do know that I was amazed about ten years ago, or so, when I went to a major office supply store to pick up a bottle of permanent ink for an old fountain pen.
I was told that they no longer stock it because so many teenagers were using the permanent ink for fountain pens to tattoo themselves, and so it was store policy to no longer sell it.
wondering22
05-25-2006, 10:19 PM
Hello I am new posting here. I have read all the posts on this case. I live in Virginia, and used to be a Grateful Dead fan myself. So when I heard about this case I found it very sad. But more to the point I've been doing a little searching on the net myself and found a few possibilities... I know someone had posted that a few missing people had been ruled out and that they had a list, one being http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1043dmut.html (Jack Jason Simmons)... which is such a striking resemblance its hard to believe that its not him! But anyway I found a few others that I haven't seen mentioned or do not remember seeing posted... http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/962dmar.html ( Jarrod Devlin Green)
I know it says he has a "Taz" tattoo but I thought I read somewhere that the unidentified man had another tattoo, but it never said what it was. But the Berkinstock sandals stuck out in my mind, its just a type of shoe Deadheads are known for. And then I found...http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1183dmmd.html
( Donald Lee Izzett )... and... http://doenetwork.us/cases/1319dmtx.html (Ricky Lee Jones)... and...http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1191dmin.html (David Barlow) Last one is probably a real long shot but It says he was last seen before July 7th, which could actually be sometime in June, since I doesn't actually say when he was last seen... they may not know when he disappeared... which was something else I was looking into... the unidentified man, may not have been reported missing until well after his death, espeically if he was'nt expected anywhere anytime soon, he may have told his family and/or friends that he was traveling across country for the summer, whether following the "Dead" or not, so he may not have been missed until late August or early September... just a thought! Anyway let me know what you think.
I just came across another one, this time, it's a young teenaged couple, both of them missing after a Dead concert.
Here's the WS thread:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26862
outofthedark
05-25-2006, 11:49 PM
I just came across another one, this time, it's a young teenaged couple, both of them missing after a Dead concert.
Here's the WS thread:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26862
These two might still be alive actually
The tattoos mentioned were rather crude and most likely done by the unknown man himself.
Or even a jail house tattoo.
Sly
wondering22
05-26-2006, 04:15 PM
I found this URL at google when trying to find out more about Mitchel Weisner. It's a list of missing or unidentified people associated with Dead concerts. If you're interested in the cases, you'd have to get the new correct links for the names from http://www.doenetwork.org
http://www.mail-archive.com/deadlists@nemesis.cs.berkeley.edu/msg02874.html
outofthedark
05-26-2006, 07:06 PM
I found this URL at google when trying to find out more about Mitchel Weisner. It's a list of missing or unidentified people associated with Dead concerts. If you're interested in the cases, you'd have to get the new correct links for the names from http://www.doenetwork.org (http://www.doenetwork.org/)
http://www.mail-archive.com/deadlists@nemesis.cs.berkeley.edu/msg02874.html
some of the links do not work on that site- so here's the links THAT don't work that page
UID Jane Doe Case 11ufil: http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/11ufil.html
Douglas Stephen Simmons: http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/131dmnc.html
UID John Doe case 178umga: http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/178umga.html
julianne
05-27-2006, 05:27 AM
And one more possibility...
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1193dmca.html
Time frame is right, age is right, this person disappeared while he was with Grateful Dead followers, however, this states he had a gap between his teeth, and I think I read that the accident victim had perfect teeth? I dunno....might be worth checking into....
kitty
05-30-2006, 03:52 PM
And one more possibility...
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1193dmca.html
Time frame is right, age is right, this person disappeared while he was with Grateful Dead followers, however, this states he had a gap between his teeth, and I think I read that the accident victim had perfect teeth? I dunno....might be worth checking into....
It also says he had decayed front teeth. If JD had perfect teeth, it would be a long shot.
Amy Noel
06-17-2006, 02:42 PM
This case is driving me nuts!!! I know this young man has a family out there, someone must be looking for him. Besides his family, he has to have friends, follow deadheads... I mean having been a Big fan of the Dead myself, I know about the Deadhead community. It's like an extended family. I just can't believe no one has reported him missing by now. I have been searching and searching any and all missing persons websites that I can find. I just want to put a name to this young man!
LButler
06-17-2006, 03:53 PM
he had 2 ticket stubs in his pocket for one concert? Am I right? That would mean someone had attended the concert with him. Who was that person?
He has a note in his pocket from Caroline O and T. I wonder if this note had a thumbtack hole in it (someone had left it on a board for him???). How else does one get a note - it's given to someone to give to someone else - maybe handed off to him during the concert when it was really too loud to talk??
Also, 2 caroline's listed with one phone number. They're obviously not sisters so maybe college roommates??
LButler
06-17-2006, 04:13 PM
(does everyone agree with that one?) and then having 2 girls with the same uncommon name??
there is a caroline county in VA just south of DC.
I wonder if anyone tried anything as simple as calling this number to see what happened and playing around with some zip codes for it?
How common were cells and car phones in 1995? It seems as though I probably had a bag, car phone at the time?
Amy Noel
06-17-2006, 05:00 PM
(does everyone agree with that one?) and then having 2 girls with the same uncommon name??
there is a caroline county in VA just south of DC.
I wonder if anyone tried anything as simple as calling this number to see what happened and playing around with some zip codes for it?
How common were cells and car phones in 1995? It seems as though I probably had a bag, car phone at the time?
The two Caroline's are/were believed to be members in an organization called "Wharf Rats". It is thought that "Jason" could be a member of the group....
Here is a brief discription I found at Wikipedia....
The Wharf Rats are a group of concert (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert)-goers who have chosen to live drug (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_abuse) and alcohol (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_abuse) free.
Their primary purpose at shows is to make themselves available to anyone who feels the Wharf Rats may have something they want. They announce their presence with yellow balloons, signs, and the Wharf Rats information table. Their goal is to offer support, strength, fellowship, and hope. At set break durring Grateful Dead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grateful_Dead) (and related) concerts they would hold 12-step style meetings.
The Wharf Rats began during the 1980s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980s) as a group of Deadheads (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadheads) under the name "The Wharf Rat Group of Alcoholics Anonymous". [1] (http://www.wharfrat.org/discus/messages/5/17.html?1019586216) However due to operational differences they soon split off from Alcoholics Anonymous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous), and are not affiliated with them, Narcotics Anonymous (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotics_Anonymous), or any other twelve-step program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program), though many of members of the Wharf Rats are members of AA, NA or other 12 step programs. The Wharf Rats see themselves as "a group of friends sharing a common bond, providing support, information and some traction in an otherwise slippery environment."
While the Wharf Rats originated in the Grateful Dead world, they now have a presence at Dead offshoot and other jam band (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jam_band) concerts as well. A similar groups named The Phellowship (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Phellowship&action=edit) for Phish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phish), The Gateway (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gateway) for Widespred Panic (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Widespred_Panic&action=edit), The Jellyfish (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Jellyfish&action=edit) for String Cheese Incident (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Cheese_Incident) are all based on the Wharf Rats.
The Wharf Rats also have a website...http://www.wharfrat.org/index.html
I found an email for one of the (supposed) Caroline's....(Caroline T.)
Southwest Contact: Arizona
Caroline "Mom" Thomas #222
9460 E. Mission Lane
Scottsdale, AZ 85258
E-mail: wharfrmomt@aol.com (wharfrmomt@aol.com)
Still looking for a Caroline O.
I believe someone posted here that both had been contacted though.... I am guessing they both denied knowing "Jason" or that he was involved in the organization??? Not sure on that, I will have to search thread again...
Amy Noel
06-17-2006, 05:24 PM
I was also wondering if anyone knew the website where they listed all the possible matches that had been ruled out. I know it was mentioned on this thread once or twice before but no one ever posted the link... thanx!
Amy Noel
06-17-2006, 06:40 PM
There was some discussion that he might be someone named Jason Coe (or something like Coe) who was reportedly traveling with a David Fincher. Various separate people stated that they had been from Wisconsin origionally, but that they had traveled through Arizona, Georgia, and Florida. One person stated that he had known a Jason from Wisconsin who traveled with a bulldog named "Baily". Yet another man stated that he had a set of tools in his van or motor home which belonged to a guy named Jason who was supposed to meet up with him later during the Grateful Dead 95 tour, but that he never saw him again. In September of 1994, somebody had been looking for a Jason Whitler from Indiana, who hadn't been seen in two years.
I was wodering if the "Jason Coe (or something like Coe)" could be...
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1521dmmd.html
even though it lists that he is from Maryland, his name is similar "James Cole".
I also ran across this young man missing since 04/27/95 from Cali.
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1193dmca.html
It has a reference to the Grateful Dead in his missing flyer,
I did notice that it lists him as 6'1" and that he has a gap between his two front teeth. Decayed front teeth. But I went back and looked at "Jasons" post and It only states that,"He had all of his teeth and no dental restoration work." It doesn't say his teeth were in good condition, some a decaying tooth and a gap couldn't rule him out!
Anyway let me know your thoughts on these potential matches!
pardilia
06-17-2006, 10:49 PM
Here (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/missing_children/greensville-unidentified_child-06301995.htm) is a link to the VA missing site profile of this unidentified boy. They have a different date listed for when he was found. I think its also important to note that he hitched a ride with someone heading south when the next Dead concert was in Michigan, so chances are he was heading home.
About the red hair color...Why would he dye it red if he was a drifter? How would he have the finances...and why would it be a priority to change his haircolor?
I further 'guess'/'assume' that he was probably 16-17 as there were concerts that year in NC, but these were in March, which would have been during the school year and if he had to hitchhike to get to the DC concert, going to these concerts would have probably have been unreasonable for him.
If you go to dead.net (http://dead.net) , and select search and pick 1995 for the concert and select search (without selecting any states) it'll pull up the full list of dates for that year.
As for the tattoo...I'd ignore it in identifying him as it was probably something he did himself and nobody really knew about judging from its size. I'd really like to have a better idea of the location of it, though, before I would be willing to really stand by that statement.
christine2448
06-17-2006, 11:16 PM
The Wharf Rats also have a website...http://www.wharfrat.org/index.html
I found an email for one of the (supposed) Caroline's....(Caroline T.)
Southwest Contact: Arizona
Caroline "Mom" Thomas #222
9460 E. Mission Lane
Scottsdale, AZ 85258
E-mail: wharfrmomt@aol.com (wharfrmomt@aol.com)
Still looking for a Caroline O.
I believe someone posted here that both had been contacted though.... I am guessing they both denied knowing "Jason" or that he was involved in the organization??? Not sure on that, I will have to search thread again...
Did you ever find out if this had been already researched? These people were contacted? The outcome?
Amy Noel
06-18-2006, 02:03 PM
Did you ever find out if this had been already researched? These people were contacted? The outcome?
Well I found this post on another thread here at Websleuths, by Trying2ID....
The things I know...
1. Caroline Thomas claims to not be Caroline T from the note.
2. JD hit the windshield of the van and then a pine tree on the other side of the glass. So height could be off some.
3. The LE doesn't remember hardly anything about the case and refuses to pick up the file and give me any information.... such as scars, birthmarks, or former injuries. (He was quoted in an article that he has been bothered by this case since it happened, yet when I spoke with him, he knew nothing.)
4. The rumor about him be Chris Rainbow and know LSD dealer at GD concerts.... This is not the person and No the DEA officers do not know anyone by that name. I have spoken with a very dear friend of mine that knows how much this means to me, so believe he would tell me the truth.
Things that I wonder about...
1. This young man had perfect well cared for teeth... where was his tooth brush when the accident happened?
2. If he had bought the tickect outside the concert... where did the money come from?
3. If he bought the shirt at the concert... where is the the short he wore to the concert?
4. He died over 10 years ago... When will LE stop the privacy crap? They do not have time to help this young man, so why not release information to me, someone that is willing to give any extra time I have to this young man.
5. How no one can not know who he is.....
Now for the BIG one...
I believe this young man is Ricky Lee Jones. Jones and his girfriend ran away from TX when he found out she was only 14 years old. She was later killed by a serial killer, but Ricky was charged with the murder before the real killer was known. Ricky and his siblings were removed from their family before he ran away and therefore, the FBI made the only missing persons report on him. Thus why no one has claimed him. BUT no one wants to check because everyone believes he was also killed by Rhoades. He picked up his girls in truckstops... I would think a couple of kids hitchhiking may use truckstops. Also, why would Rhoades kill a male... all his victims were females.
http://doenetwork.us/cases/1319dmtx.html (http://doenetwork.us/cases/1319dmtx.html)
How far fetched do I sound on this???
I haven't seen Trying2ID on websleuths in awhile, but I know he posted his email on this thread trying2id@yahoo.com and he said he had 2 pictures of "Jason" and he would email a copy if requested...
pardilia
06-18-2006, 06:04 PM
My thought has always been that he was a recently graduated high school senior that had brushes with the law with drugs and whose parents had probably wrote him off anyway - thus not looking for him and/or possibly not reporting him missing as it would have been a violation of his probation or some such. =)
Just the time of year and the money he spent at the show and stuff possibly being a graduation present seems like a decent theory...
Amy Noel
06-18-2006, 06:57 PM
My thought has always been that he was a recently graduated high school senior that had brushes with the law with drugs and whose parents had probably wrote him off anyway - thus not looking for him and/or possibly not reporting him missing as it would have been a violation of his probation or some such. =)
Just the time of year and the money he spent at the show and stuff possibly being a graduation present seems like a decent theory...I don't know about the graduating and using money he had gotten as graduation presents for the tickets and shirt. But I would say that you might be onto something with the drugs and his parents writing him off... the reason for him not being reported missing!
I was thinking he probably had gotten into the whole deadhead lifestyle, that would explain him really not having any possesions or money on him. It's possible that he had been traveling with the Caroline's and had left his stuff with them, maybe they were supposed to meet up at the RFK show. And they had sent the note through some other deadhead, that they knew was going to the show. So he got word and called the number, and made arrangements to meet with them, got a ride headed in the direction to where they were at. Then maybe they were all going to travel to the next show together. But he never made it.
The question I've always had is did LE ever call the number? I know they didn't have the area code but how hard could it have been to call all and any matching area codes for that prefix? It wouldn't do much good now to call it's been 11 years, odds are the number no longer belongs to Caroline('s). But LE could probably trace the number back and find out what cell company has that number and possibly who had it in 1995. I just don't think it's that important to them. If not they should release that information so that someone who does care can investigate it further.
But I do think "Trying2ID" has a point with Ricky Lee Jones http://doenetwork.us/cases/1319dmtx.html
you have to admit it's a strong resemblance to "Jason"!
christine2448
06-18-2006, 07:14 PM
Well I found this post on another thread here at Websleuths, by Trying2ID....
Thanks for posting that info Amy.
pardilia
06-18-2006, 10:00 PM
I don't know about the graduating and using money he had gotten as graduation presents for the tickets and shirt. But I would say that you might be onto something with the drugs and his parents writing him off... the reason for him not being reported missing!The reason I was thinking about it being graduation present money is when I was in high school around the time the boy was discovered, most of the kids who were fans were children of affluent parents...the kind that would pay to get their kids out of trouble and whatnot. I could always see him being of that particular "crowd." Particularly if his hair *is* a dye job - possible connection of still being 'well-groomed' to fit in with the affluent society. FILA shoes were also terribly popular at this time and rather expensive (a comparable shoe would be the Air Jordans of today). One of those items someone would get to "fit in" with the popular crowd...not something I'd really think of a deadhead wearing.
Amy Noel
06-18-2006, 10:14 PM
The reason I was thinking about it being graduation present money is when I was in high school around the time the boy was discovered, most of the kids who were fans were children of affluent parents...the kind that would pay to get their kids out of trouble and whatnot. I could always see him being of that particular "crowd." Particularly if his hair *is* a dye job - possible connection of still being 'well-groomed' to fit in with the affluent society. FILA shoes were also terribly popular at this time and rather expensive (a comparable shoe would be the Air Jordans of today). One of those items someone would get to "fit in" with the popular crowd...not something I'd really think of a deadhead wearing.You are correct on the shoes, I do remember those being fairly popular in the mid 90's. I guess anything is possible! I would have to wonder though, that if his family did have money and he was a highschool graduate and was given $ and gifts, that they were probably very proud of him and he probably wouldn't have been into drugs atleast to the extent of them thinking he would wander off and dissapper and they wouldn't think anything of it! If that were the case they would surely have reported him missing and looked for him.
I don't know... There so much here that just doesn't add up. He was a young man, maybe even as young as 16. And no one has identified him in 11 years?
I just hope someday real soon this mystery will be solved!!!
Amy Noel
06-19-2006, 10:46 PM
Here is another grateful dead fan that was killed in an auto accident and was unidentified...
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/178umga.html
when you go to this page scroll to the bottom and click on
source information: FCMEO
then click on Press Items, then scroll down to click on Pre-2003 UID cases,
then click on the COLD cases, then just scroll down until you see pic
96-1115, if you right click on the pic you can save and then pull it up to zoom in ... I am not telling you this to be morbid but it is an actual pic of him and better to compare to....
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1183dmmd.html
I think this resemblance is unbelievable!!! And if you notice the height of both is exactly 6'2 , the weight you cannot compare because the unidentified was in the hospital for a year.... I don't know why they did not put his weight for when he arrived at the hospital? If you notice it also says tattoos were recent so he could have gotten them since he left. Also David's missing poster says he travelled throughout numerous different states, California, Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida and Canada. So he could have been in Ga.
Anyway looking for some feedback from all of you!!!
Angels_Not_Forgotten
06-19-2006, 10:59 PM
wow they do look very similar!
Amy Noel
06-19-2006, 11:04 PM
Well I have sent it in as a possible match to the Fulton County ME. DNA is available for both, so we will see?
dacqueri
06-19-2006, 11:07 PM
I agree, the resemblance is eerie!
marylandmissing
06-20-2006, 06:43 PM
Donald Izzett and the Georgia Doe were ruled out by DNA years ago.
marylandmissing
06-20-2006, 06:46 PM
Articles referencing this are:
'A somber glimmer of hope', Baltimore Sun, 10/20/2001
'DNA shows crash victim isn't missing man', Baltimore Sun, 11/9/2001
Amy Noel
06-20-2006, 07:46 PM
Articles referencing this are:
'A somber glimmer of hope', Baltimore Sun, 10/20/2001
'DNA shows crash victim isn't missing man', Baltimore Sun, 11/9/2001'A somber glimmer of hope', Baltimore Sun, 10/20/2001
If the DNA samples match, Mulligan will know that the "John Doe" in Georgia is her son, Donald Lee Izzett Jr., who left for a California vacation in May 1995 and never returned.
In the years since Donald disappeared, Mulligan has looked at hundreds of pictures of missing children on Internet sites. She has badgered police to devote more time to their investigation and angrily complained when their reported findings raised disturbing questions about her son's life.
According to a case summary posted on a state police Web site, Donald spent the summer of 1995 on an odyssey through gay communities in Florida, Louisiana and Mississippi. The report describes the friend who accompanied Donald to California as his boyfriend, and refers to fights between the two that led Donald to travel to Canada and then Florida
'DNA shows crash victim isn't missing man', Baltimore Sun, 11/9/2001
"I'm numb," said [Debra Mulligan], who had become convinced since she submitted a DNA sample taken from her mouth for comparison purposes that the accident victim was her son, Donald Lee Izzett Jr.
Izzett's case came to the attention of the Fulton County Medical Examiner's Office in July when a Parkville man who monitors missing- persons Web sites alerted the office to physical similarities between Izzett and the unidentified accident victim in Georgia. [Carol A. Terry]'s office posts pictures of its unidentified cases on its Web site.
The Fulton County office initiated DNA testing to compare tissue saved from the autopsy on the unidentified victim with a DNA sample given by Mulligan. Terry's office covered the $1,600 cost of testing.
Thanks! I wish they would post all possible matches that have been ruled out. It sure would help! Well I was beginning to doubt this one earlier today when it was brought to my attention that this "John Doe" had a "virgo" tattoo, which is not Izzett's zodiac sign. So I pulled up the other two possible matches that I've been looking at for him... and one of them is a "virgo"! Which now puts him at the top. Take a look and see what you think....
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1648dmca.html
and the "John Doe"
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/178umga.html
LButler
06-20-2006, 11:17 PM
Amy Noel....
Your John Doe from above intrigued me http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/178umga.html
I had a tough time seeing Virgo in the one tattoo. It looked more like Virgon to me. I searched that and found that it was one of the 12 colonies in Battlestar Galactica. Here's the link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Colonies
If you read the info about Virgon....
His age estimation is right to be "into" a 1978 show.
And, here's another thought on him. This kid kinda looked like him.
http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PubCaseSearchServlet?act=viewChildDetail&caseNum=812356&orgPrefix=NCMC&seqNum=1&caseLang=en_US&searchLang=en_US
His hair looks so much darker in his actual photo than in the age progression.
LButler
06-20-2006, 11:21 PM
oh, Cengiz's doe site lists him as being with some grateful dead fans.
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1193dmca.html
But, it lists decayed front teeth for him. Doe's teeth do not look to be decayed.
Amy Noel
06-21-2006, 12:34 AM
oh, Cengiz's doe site lists him as being with some grateful dead fans.
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/1193dmca.html
But, it lists decayed front teeth for him. Doe's teeth do not look to be decayed.
He was actually one of the three I had thought were possibles...I actually already sent his name in as a possible match to LE... but haven't heard anything!
LButler
06-21-2006, 09:04 AM
How exciting. Let's keep our fingers crossed.
pardilia
06-21-2006, 12:16 PM
that if his family did have money and he was a highschool graduate and was given $ and gifts, that they were probably very proud of him and he probably wouldn't have been into drugs at least to the extent of them thinking he would wander off and dissapper and they wouldn't think anything of it!
Not necessarily. It could have been friends and distant relatives giving the money because of social expectations and ignorance of what was really going on. He could have barely managed to graduate. =)
I just can't get over the shoes - they seem like such a major incongruency to me. I just keep thinking that maybe they were bought for him towards the beginning of the school year and during his last year in school he began to 'drift' from his regular crowd to a 'crowd' that was more about the Grateful Dead. Shoes are expensive and maybe if he wasn't doing well in school his parents refused to buy him new ones?
Or do I think too much about this? =p
Azlaw
06-21-2006, 01:09 PM
Found a website that you can download the audio from the Dead concert that Jason Doe attended.
Kinda wierd thinking that he heard that live and then died so soon after.
It was taped by Tom Cooper and Dave Howard. It's a long shot, but maybe they knew "Jason."
Don't know how to follow up on it though.
http://db.etree.org/shninfo_detail.php?shnid=27450
Another weird internet find.
A picture of the crowd at the Dead concert that Jason attended. He's in there somewhere enjoying the concert and no doubt there are people in that picture that know who he is.
http://stash.nugs.net/attics/rfk95/default.asp
lilsister
06-22-2006, 04:09 PM
Ok, maybe I am missing something but wouldn't the description of Jason Doe be pretty accurate since they found him dead at the scene (red hair--LE should be able to tell if it were not the actual color etc.,Height 5'6). I am guessing that his face was very disfigured as a result of the accident. I hope someone ID's him soon.
pardilia
06-22-2006, 04:33 PM
This fellow's eyes are the "wrong color", but there seems to be similarities. Aron Holmes Silverman went missing July 5, 1993 from Norfolk, Virginia, two years before this fellow was killed and not that far away. At 5'10", his height is in the appropriate range. He had long blonde hair. At 130 lb., he was slimmer than the deceased, but there is the two year time difference. Blue eyes vs. brown seems to be the major possible discrepency. Age seems to be about right.
Young Mr. Silverman played the guitar and apparently had a drug habit, so it doesn't seem unlikely he'd wind up at a Grateful Dead show.
Aron is No. 516DMVA on the Doe Network and NCMC No. 783972. You can read about him and see a photo at www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/silverman_aron.html. (http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/s/silverman_aron.html.)
This man has long been thought to have drowned while at the waterfront showing off a boat. I'm from Norfolk and it was pretty much assumed that the extremely intoxicated fella tumbled in and didn't otherwise disappear.
lilsister
06-22-2006, 05:42 PM
I also agree that Jason Doe was probably a major Dead Head and his parents probably had'nt heard from him in a long time and they just figured that he went out on his own. I can't explain it any other way unless he was an orphan who grew up in group homes etc. As for the sneakers, he might have taken them from someone etc. It is just so sad that no one has ever claimed him as their own...he was just forgotten...but not by WS!:(
Hollow
07-16-2006, 05:19 AM
I don't know if anyone posted this before, so I'll apologize in advance if it was, this page has another drawing of the Grateful Dead fan.
http://www.find-missing-children.org/Posters/poster399.htm
loganone
09-22-2006, 11:27 AM
Does anyone know if Phillip John Koss has been ruled out?
http://www.theyaremissed.org/ncma/gallery/ncmaprofile_all.php?A200603868S
This case has been haunting me.
Helper
09-25-2006, 07:42 PM
See posts number 51 & 53. Apparently Koss has NOT been ruled out. As I noted before, he disappeared just a few days before the East Coast GD tour began, and "Jason Doe" was heading south after the DC shows.
loganone
09-25-2006, 09:08 PM
See posts number 51 & 53. Apparently Koss has NOT been ruled out. As I noted before, he disappeared just a few days before the East Coast GD tour began, and "Jason Doe" was heading south after the DC shows.Somehow I missed those two posts :-)
About the height thing... to me its to close really to be ruled out totally based on height alone.
Roy Harrold
09-25-2006, 09:33 PM
I've always found this to be one of the saddest of the unidentifieds on Doe Network, for reasons others have already expressed.
I wanted to say that I found many postings in this thread and related ones a very high caliber. I like the approach some people have taken - working from the little info available, searching for and proposing possible matches and then eliminating ones that turn out to be incorrect. Methodical, fact-based, rational - I like it and believe in this process as a good bet for eventually finding the truth.
*~Kashmir~*
12-23-2006, 09:02 PM
Here's a theory/lead to work from that we want to throw at you:
okay, pertaining to this theory we know the following as facts:
1. they were westbound on route 58 west of emporia VA
2. the driver ( M.E. Hager) was of Inman, SC for the purposes of this theory we'll presume that's where he was headed.
3. the note in the Doe's pocket while unknown if it was addressed to him had a 914 prefix on it presumably for a phone #. (unless they had the whole # all along and never called it which is really disturbing)
4. the Doe had VERY limited possesions on him at the time.
Here's our theory:
Our Doe was at RFK for both shows, perhaps Caroline O and T were supposed to meet with him on the 25th and didn't show up or perhaps they were supposed to meet the 26th. either way they could have had his possesions... Stay with me here, the reason we believe the note was to our doe is due to the following, the doe had VERY limited things in his possesion, the note had to be pretty important for someone with only 4 possesions on him while hitchhiking to have. Okay so with fonefinder we pull up 914 area codes in the vicinity of Washington, DC (RFK's location) and we come up with several near matches the closest of which being Chapel Hill, NC...
Now watch this...
Emporia, VA to Chapel Hill, NC from Mapquest:
1: Start out going NORTH on US-301 / S MAIN ST toward BRUNSWICK AVE.
2: Turn LEFT onto W ATLANTIC ST / US-58 BR.
3: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto MARKET DR.
4: Turn LEFT onto US-58 W.
5: Merge onto I-85 S toward DURHAM NC (Crossing into NORTH CAROLINA).
6: Keep LEFT to take US-15 S / US-501 S via EXIT 174B toward CHAPEL HILL.
7: Merge onto E FRANKLIN ST.
8: End at Chapel Hill, NC US
Now look at this:
Emporia, VA to Inman, SC (driver's hometown):
1: Start out going NORTH on US-301 / S MAIN ST toward BRUNSWICK AVE.
2: Turn LEFT onto W ATLANTIC ST / US-58 BR.
3: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto MARKET DR.
4: Turn LEFT onto US-58 W.
5: Merge onto I-85 S toward DURHAM NC (Crossing into NORTH CAROLINA).
THE SAME EXACT route... if the driver was on his way home to Inman, SC from the RFK show dropping our Doe off for whatever reason in Chapel Hill would have been a MAXIMUM 10mile detour for the driver. Moreover, route 58 is the most direct route from I95 to I85.
Here's an Image created with Google Earth and Photoshop of the possible travel path:
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/499/possibleul6.jpg
The reason we feel that this is jason's path is that it explains a number of things:
1. chapel hill is a 914 prefix number
2. it would explain why they exited I-95 and headed west-northwest after being presumably southbound on 95 (since the doe had RFK stubs in his pocket)
3. the Driver's hometown was Inman SC. I85 to 440 seems to be the only direct route.
4. Chapel hill is on the way to Inman which could explain why the driver offered the ride to the Doe in the first place.
Give us some feedback.
Doc and Kashmir
*~Kashmir~*
12-23-2006, 09:11 PM
Here's a theory/lead to work from that we want to throw at you:
okay, pertaining to this theory we know the following as facts:
1. they were westbound on route 58 west of emporia VA
2. the driver (
M.E. Hager) was of Inman, SC for the purposes of this theory we'll presume that's where he was headed.
3.
the note in the Doe's pocket while unknown if it was addressed to him
had a 914 prefix on it presumably for a phone #. (unless they had the
whole # all along and never called it which is really disturbing)
4. the Doe had VERY limited possesions on him at the time.
Here's our theory:
Our
Doe was at RFK for both shows, perhaps Caroline O and T were supposed
to meet with him on the 25th and didn't show up or perhaps they were
supposed to meet the 26th. either way they could have had his
possesions... Stay with me here, the reason we believe the note was to
our doe is due to the following, the doe had VERY limited things in his
possesion, the note had to be pretty important for someone with only 4
possesions on him while hitchhiking to have. Okay so with fonefinder we
pull up 914 area codes in the vicinity of Washington, DC (RFK's
location) and we come up with several near matches the closest of which
being Chapel Hill, NC...
Now watch this...
Emporia, VA to Chapel Hill, NC from Mapquest:
1: Start out going NORTH on US-301 / S MAIN ST toward BRUNSWICK AVE.
2: Turn LEFT onto W ATLANTIC ST / US-58 BR.
3: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto MARKET DR.
4: Turn LEFT onto US-58 W.
5: Merge onto I-85 S toward DURHAM NC (Crossing into NORTH CAROLINA).
6: Keep LEFT to take US-15 S / US-501 S via EXIT 174B toward CHAPEL HILL.
7: Merge onto E FRANKLIN ST.
8: End at Chapel Hill, NC US
Now look at this:
Emporia, VA to Inman, SC (driver's hometown):
1: Start out going NORTH on US-301 / S MAIN ST toward BRUNSWICK AVE.
2: Turn LEFT onto W ATLANTIC ST / US-58 BR.
3: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto MARKET DR.
4: Turn LEFT onto US-58 W.
5: Merge onto I-85 S toward DURHAM NC (Crossing into NORTH CAROLINA).
THE SAME EXACT route... if the driver was on his way home
to Inman, SC from the RFK show dropping our Doe off for whatever reason
in Chapel Hill would have been a MAXIMUM 10mile detour for the driver.
Moreover, route 58 is the most direct route from I95 to I85.
Here's an Image created with Google Earth and Photoshop of the possible travel path:
(http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/499/possibleul6.jpg)http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/499/possibleul6.jpg
The reason we feel that this is jason's path is that it explains a number of things:
1. chapel hill is a 914 prefix number
2. it would explain why they exited I-95 and headed west-northwest
after being presumably southbound on 95 (since the doe had RFK stubs in
his pocket)
3. the Driver's hometown was Inman SC. I85 to 440 seems to be the only direct route.
4. Chapel hill is on the way to Inman which could explain why the driver offered the ride to the Doe in the first place.
Give us some feedback.
Doc and Kashmir
kylie
12-23-2006, 11:02 PM
Could this kid be from Europe? I mean there are Grateful Dead fans in other countries.................
Kgram
12-23-2006, 11:08 PM
Here's a theory/lead to work from that we want to throw at you:
okay, pertaining to this theory we know the following as facts:
1. they were westbound on route 58 west of emporia VA
2. the driver (
M.E. Hager) was of Inman, SC for the purposes of this theory we'll presume that's where he was headed.
3.
the note in the Doe's pocket while unknown if it was addressed to him
had a 914 prefix on it presumably for a phone #. (unless they had the
whole # all along and never called it which is really disturbing)
4. the Doe had VERY limited possesions on him at the time.
Here's our theory:
Our
Doe was at RFK for both shows, perhaps Caroline O and T were supposed
to meet with him on the 25th and didn't show up or perhaps they were
supposed to meet the 26th. either way they could have had his
possesions... Stay with me here, the reason we believe the note was to
our doe is due to the following, the doe had VERY limited things in his
possesion, the note had to be pretty important for someone with only 4
possesions on him while hitchhiking to have. Okay so with fonefinder we
pull up 914 area codes in the vicinity of Washington, DC (RFK's
location) and we come up with several near matches the closest of which
being Chapel Hill, NC...
Now watch this...
Emporia, VA to Chapel Hill, NC from Mapquest:
1: Start out going NORTH on US-301 / S MAIN ST toward BRUNSWICK AVE.
2: Turn LEFT onto W ATLANTIC ST / US-58 BR.
3: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto MARKET DR.
4: Turn LEFT onto US-58 W.
5: Merge onto I-85 S toward DURHAM NC (Crossing into NORTH CAROLINA).
6: Keep LEFT to take US-15 S / US-501 S via EXIT 174B toward CHAPEL HILL.
7: Merge onto E FRANKLIN ST.
8: End at Chapel Hill, NC US
Now look at this:
Emporia, VA to Inman, SC (driver's hometown):
1: Start out going NORTH on US-301 / S MAIN ST toward BRUNSWICK AVE.
2: Turn LEFT onto W ATLANTIC ST / US-58 BR.
3: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto MARKET DR.
4: Turn LEFT onto US-58 W.
5: Merge onto I-85 S toward DURHAM NC (Crossing into NORTH CAROLINA).
THE SAME EXACT route... if the driver was on his way home
to Inman, SC from the RFK show dropping our Doe off for whatever reason
in Chapel Hill would have been a MAXIMUM 10mile detour for the driver.
Moreover, route 58 is the most direct route from I95 to I85.
Here's an Image created with Google Earth and Photoshop of the possible travel path:
(http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/499/possibleul6.jpg)http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/499/possibleul6.jpg
The reason we feel that this is jason's path is that it explains a number of things:
1. chapel hill is a 914 prefix number
2. it would explain why they exited I-95 and headed west-northwest
after being presumably southbound on 95 (since the doe had RFK stubs in
his pocket)
3. the Driver's hometown was Inman SC. I85 to 440 seems to be the only direct route.
4. Chapel hill is on the way to Inman which could explain why the driver offered the ride to the Doe in the first place.
Give us some feedback.
Doc and Kashmir
That was really good. Another thing I was thinking is there have been a lot of new prefixes added to area codes since this happened. If you knew which ones are to new to be considered that would help.
grievousangel
12-23-2006, 11:21 PM
Kashmir, has his picture been distributed in Chapel Hill, NC?
*~Kashmir~*
12-24-2006, 12:08 PM
Kashmir, has his picture been distributed in Chapel Hill, NC?Good question. We plan on calling the local police to see if they can give us a heads up of where to look (if they cannot help us themselves).
Any other suggestions on the next course of action?
If this boy was from Europe, he definitely lost. I would think he isn't as his assumed age is pretty young. Too young to be solo in Washington DC.
*~Kashmir~*
12-24-2006, 12:19 PM
I really feel that the number left on the note is the key. Even if the people who had the number in 95 don't have it anymore, there's always old phone books. Lots of work, but worth it
marylandmissing
12-24-2006, 01:23 PM
Here's a theory/lead to work from that we want to throw at you:
okay, pertaining to this theory we know the following as facts:
1. they were westbound on route 58 west of emporia VA
2. the driver ( M.E. Hager) was of Inman, SC for the purposes of this theory we'll presume that's where he was headed.
3. the note in the Doe's pocket while unknown if it was addressed to him had a 914 prefix on it presumably for a phone #. (unless they had the whole # all along and never called it which is really disturbing)
4. the Doe had VERY limited possesions on him at the time.
Here's our theory:
Our Doe was at RFK for both shows, perhaps Caroline O and T were supposed to meet with him on the 25th and didn't show up or perhaps they were supposed to meet the 26th. either way they could have had his possesions... Stay with me here, the reason we believe the note was to our doe is due to the following, the doe had VERY limited things in his possesion, the note had to be pretty important for someone with only 4 possesions on him while hitchhiking to have. Okay so with fonefinder we pull up 914 area codes in the vicinity of Washington, DC (RFK's location) and we come up with several near matches the closest of which being Chapel Hill, NC...
Now watch this...
Emporia, VA to Chapel Hill, NC from Mapquest:
1: Start out going NORTH on US-301 / S MAIN ST toward BRUNSWICK AVE.
2: Turn LEFT onto W ATLANTIC ST / US-58 BR.
3: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto MARKET DR.
4: Turn LEFT onto US-58 W.
5: Merge onto I-85 S toward DURHAM NC (Crossing into NORTH CAROLINA).
6: Keep LEFT to take US-15 S / US-501 S via EXIT 174B toward CHAPEL HILL.
7: Merge onto E FRANKLIN ST.
8: End at Chapel Hill, NC US
Now look at this:
Emporia, VA to Inman, SC (driver's hometown):
1: Start out going NORTH on US-301 / S MAIN ST toward BRUNSWICK AVE.
2: Turn LEFT onto W ATLANTIC ST / US-58 BR.
3: Stay STRAIGHT to go onto MARKET DR.
4: Turn LEFT onto US-58 W.
5: Merge onto I-85 S toward DURHAM NC (Crossing into NORTH CAROLINA).
THE SAME EXACT route... if the driver was on his way home to Inman, SC from the RFK show dropping our Doe off for whatever reason in Chapel Hill would have been a MAXIMUM 10mile detour for the driver. Moreover, route 58 is the most direct route from I95 to I85.
Here's an Image created with Google Earth and Photoshop of the possible travel path:
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/499/possibleul6.jpg
The reason we feel that this is jason's path is that it explains a number of things:
1. chapel hill is a 914 prefix number
2. it would explain why they exited I-95 and headed west-northwest after being presumably southbound on 95 (since the doe had RFK stubs in his pocket)
3. the Driver's hometown was Inman SC. I85 to 440 seems to be the only direct route.
4. Chapel hill is on the way to Inman which could explain why the driver offered the ride to the Doe in the first place.
Give us some feedback.
Doc and Kashmir
This was a prefix, not an area code. At this time, I don't believe Maryland had started making you dial an area code first for local calls...You'd just dial a 7 digit number unless it was long distance, then you'd dial 1 and the area code...The prefix, then the last four. At this time, I believe MD only had two area codes...301 and 410 (which I think came out around 1996)...Even when they came out, for the longest time no one ever gave a ten digit number as your number, unless you were speaking to someone who didn't grow up around there. You'd just give them your 7 digit number, and they'd know to dial 301 in front of it...
Anyhow, at this time, 914 was a prefix for Bethesda, MD, and Baltimore, MD. I vividly recall that because I knew people in both areas with those prefixes.
There is reason to believe this man is from the Baltimore, MD area, and that his family knows exactly what happened to him, they just chose not to claim his body. (Which is actually not as uncommon as one thinks)
but even if they didn't claim his body, wouldn't his friends or other family members wonder where he went? it's odd to think that people can really just fall through the tracks like that. they would have to come from a background where they were very isolated, or else shunned by everyone they knew and forgotten about.
i can think of 3 things off he top of my head that might make a family not claim a body:
1) drugs- esp. if there was a lot of theft involved, they may have written them off. but even then, it would take a lot to just forget the person altogether..
2) homosexuality- say they came from a very traditional, strictly religious, affluent home, and the family could not deal with the 'embarrassment'. maybe the kid was a dropout and considered a failure in the family's eyes.
3) they were impoverished, dysfunctional, & on drugs themselves.. maybe some are in jail, and no one even knows his identity is unknown, or they don't want to draw attention to themselves by contacting authorities...?
with all those thousands of people who followed the dead for all those years, it's amazing no one has stumbled upon his image who recognizes him yet. he could have been a new GD convert... or, maybe he just existed in the shadows his whole life...?
also.. wondering if he could be from canada. he looks like he could be french canadian to me.
marylandmissing
12-24-2006, 03:26 PM
but even if they didn't claim his body, wouldn't his friends or other family members wonder where he went? it's odd to think that people can really just fall through the tracks like that. they would have to come from a background where they were very isolated, or else shunned by everyone they knew and forgotten about.
i can think of 3 things off he top of my head that might make a family not claim a body:
1) drugs- esp. if there was a lot of theft involved, they may have written them off. but even then, it would take a lot to just forget the person altogether..
2) homosexuality- say they came from a very traditional, strictly religious, affluent home, and the family could not deal with the 'embarrassment'. maybe the kid was a dropout and considered a failure in the family's eyes.
3) they were impoverished, dysfunctional, & on drugs themselves.. maybe some are in jail, and no one even knows his identity is unknown, or they don't want to draw attention to themselves by contacting authorities...?
with all those thousands of people who followed the dead for all those years, it's amazing no one has stumbled upon his image who recognizes him yet. he could have been a new GD convert... or, maybe he just existed in the shadows his whole life...?
also.. wondering if he could be from canada. he looks like he could be french canadian to me.
Not necessarily...Lots of people really have 'no one left' family-wise in their life, or have families that are completely estranged or completely apathetic...He could have moved around a lot in his life, not necessarily keeping long-term friends. He could have been shuffled state-to-state by relatives, who were relieved when he turned 18. He could have had parents in prison, dead, and aged out of foster care. He also could have had parents who were very poor, do not understand the legal system, and never bothered to report him missing (this is actually very common in 'doe' cases)...
For every missing child out there reported by the family, there is another child who is not reported missing. Often times a throw-away (like parents know they have run off but don't bother to search for them), often times the parents just up and moved and abandoned the kid, often times given to another relative/friend to raise and the parent doesn't follow up on the care...Often times these kids grow up in homes where they are taught to steal, lie, prostitute, deal drugs, etc...
I know of a runaway up this way, who was beat last year half to death. She was 15. Her mother was dead, and the father lived on disability. They were dirt poor, had no vehicle, no phone in the house, and the girl went to school with the same clothes on quite often...When she was 13, she met an older guy who introduced her to prostitution...She left home shortly after w/ this guy and was hooking down in DC...The father went to payphones to report her missing, and used payphones to try to keep up w/ the progress of the investigation...She was found and brought back home, but ran off soon after. Same story...She returned six months late...Ran off again, and this time the police started harassing him about his parenting, and he slowly stopped calling the police when she ran off...When she was found beat almost to death last year, there was no missing person report on her...She was found two states over when this happened, and no one recognized her picture in the paper...Until she woke up out of a coma, they had no idea who she was...
I've talked to medical examiner's who say families read of deaths in papers of their relatives, but don't call the ME's to claim the bodies. To do so, means they are financially responsible for the burial cost, and many don't have the means, and they don't want to have to go through Social Services for 'indigent death' benefits...Police have showed up at doors like this to inform the relatives of the death, only to have doors not answered and phone calls not returned...
Just because he was wearing a Grateful Dead t-shirt does not mean he was a dead follower. This could have been the only concert he ever went to...
many good points you make there.. & obviously you know your stuff. and i agree,, he may not have been a GD follower at all. and yes i was also thinking of he burial cost issue too. lots of families don't want to pay that (or can't)... and figure they're already buried, so what's the point? or, don't even know their kid is dead, if they don't use the internet or makre an effort to look up missing persons cases. i am wondering if his info/picture was sent to any foster care organizations in MD (& surrounding areas), who may have had him in their system in the 70's or 80's? do they usually keep fairly decent records.. or is that a lost cause? and why do authorities think he might be from baltimore or MD?
*~Kashmir~*
12-24-2006, 05:07 PM
This was a prefix, not an area code. At this time, I don't believe Maryland had started making you dial an area code first for local calls...You'd just dial a 7 digit number unless it was long distance, then you'd dial 1 and the area code...The prefix, then the last four. At this time, I believe MD only had two area codes...301 and 410 (which I think came out around 1996)...Even when they came out, for the longest time no one ever gave a ten digit number as your number, unless you were speaking to someone who didn't grow up around there. You'd just give them your 7 digit number, and they'd know to dial 301 in front of it...
Anyhow, at this time, 914 was a prefix for Bethesda, MD, and Baltimore, MD. I vividly recall that because I knew people in both areas with those prefixes.
There is reason to believe this man is from the Baltimore, MD area, and that his family knows exactly what happened to him, they just chose not to claim his body. (Which is actually not as uncommon as one thinks)I know. We checked all the 914 prefixes
914 is a NY area code. I know because it was my area code growing uphttp://www.websleuths.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif
I don't think he was from Baltimore as he was traveling in the opposite direction. (of course I could be way off)
I was on this tour and in the parking lot of the RFK show (I didn't get in. My last show was 06-22-95 in Albany) I know that if I lost my ride at a show and needed a ride home, I'd scan the lot for liscense plates that are close to my home. JD chose someone from South Carolina
Richard
12-26-2006, 02:40 PM
...I was on this tour and in the parking lot of the RFK show (I didn't get in. My last show was 06-22-95 in Albany) I know that if I lost my ride at a show and needed a ride home, I'd scan the lot for liscense plates that are close to my home. JD chose someone from South Carolina
Actually, there is reason to believe that this young man hitched his ride on I-95, on the Virginia side of the Potomac River, rather than getting a ride from the RFK parking lot.
The guy who picked him up was driving south from another state, where he had been to see his fiance. The driver was a Grateful Dead fan, but he definitely was NOT at the RFK concert that weekend.
On his way south, the driver stopped briefly at his father's Northern Virginia home, and was seen there with the hitchhiker. Not finding his father at home, the driver left a note stating that he was continuing south to his Mother's home in Inman, SC.
Nobody in the driver's family knew the hitchhiker, although they were very helpful in the investigation into his identity and hope for a resolution in the case.
It was speculated that the driver may have seen the hitch hiker wearing his new Grateful Dead T-Shirt (it was a 1995 Summer Tour shirt which listed all of the concerts for that tour) and picked him up because of the common interest in music, and for company during his long ride south. Neither the driver, nor the hitchhiker were headed in the right direction to attend the next concerts. They were headed south, while the Grateful Dead (and their fans) were headed Northwest.
There have been a number of proposed possibilities concerning the identity of the hitchhiker, but to date nothing has matched. In 1996 (a year after the accident which killed the two men) I corresponded with a College girl in North Carolina, who knew a boy named Jason, and who thought that the dead boy might be her friend. I passed her name and number on to the chief investigator of the case for follow-up, but do not know how the tip was handled or resolved. Her college was on the route mentioned above.
The observation that he was traveling very light, with no backpack, luggage, etc. might very well indicate that someone else had his belongings and that he may have missed a planned ride with them. In fact, the note from the two Carolines seems to indicate that he missed connecting with them.
Back in 1996, there was a Grateful Dead Forum on AOL, and one GD fan reported having a tool box which a young man named Jason had left with him in his camper/van during the RFK concert, but failed to retrieve at the subsequent concerts.
Regarding the phone number... Police had the complete phone number, but with no area code. 914 is definitely the "prefix", as I have seen a photo of the note. This prefix could be found in quite a few different area codes, but in the Washington DC Metropolitan Area, it was an active one for Northern Virginia in 1995.
Marylandmissing makes some good observations about phone numbers. Back in 1995, You did have to dial a 1, then the 3 digit area code, followed by the 7 digit number - but only when dialing a LONG DISTANCE number.
In 1995, in the Washington Metropolitan area, there were portions of THREE Area Codes which could be dialed as local numbers WITHOUT dialing the area code first. Portions of Virginia's area code 703, and Maryland's area code 301, and All of The District's area code 202 were like that.
So, unless this young man had obtained the note somewhere other than Washington DC, it was most likely a Virginia number which he could call locally simply by dialing the 7 digits.
grievousangel
12-26-2006, 03:23 PM
Are there any other photograhs of the young man? Even a retouched morgue photo might be helpful...often when I look at some of the artist's rendition of a photo it always seems so different than the actual photograph. I realize some photos may not be acceptable to view, but many are and have been posted on publically accessed sites.
Quite by accident one summer we were travelling in the midwest and kept running into caravans of Deadheads who were following the band on it's concert schedule....not sure of the date exactly but I believe it was in 1995...there were hundreds of such kids...we would see them at rest stops and restaurants along the way...they all seemed very transient and I wondered just how they got involved in that lifestyle.
marylandmissing
12-26-2006, 09:10 PM
On his way south, the driver stopped briefly at his father's Northern Virginia home, and was seen there with the hitchhiker. Not finding his father at home, the driver left a note stating that he was continuing south to his Mother's home in Inman, SC.
Nobody in the driver's family knew the hitchhiker, although they were very helpful in the investigation into his identity and hope for a resolution in the case.
Thanks Richard. I couldn't remember how I had heard that the driver was seen with Jason at one point, but with that I recall what a childfind worker told me...She said the mother of the driver contacts them pretty regularly to see if they have found anything new on the unidentified...
Spoke w/ a ME once who told me that shortly after this death, they received a call they believe may have been the family of this boy.
*~Kashmir~*
12-27-2006, 01:01 AM
You have a lot of info on this case Richard!! WOW! How did you obtain all those details? I've been serching and searching....:sigh: The reason I thought J Doe may have hooked up with the driver at the show is because I emailed the person who is maintaining the myspace page. I asked if there was any clue if the driver was attending the show or just randomly picked the boy up. The response I received was that friend of the driver said he had gone to the show.
Is it possible that J Doe was not from Virginia? I mean the crash happened just west of Emporia and it was so close to the NC border. In looking for towns in neighboring states, we found Chapel Hill, NC and Bristol, Tn.
I would be very interested in talking to you further about this case, Richard, if you would be so kind. Perhaps through email? Doc and I had heard the detail of the driver stopping at his father's and leaving a note, but we couldn't remember where.
Peace
<Spoke w/ a ME once who told me that shortly after this death, they received a call they believe may have been the family of this boy.>
so, what did they say? were they able to confirm anything from this?
marylandmissing
12-27-2006, 09:35 AM
<Spoke w/ a ME once who told me that shortly after this death, they received a call they believe may have been the family of this boy.>
so, what did they say? were they able to confirm anything from this?
When this first happened, some physical characteristics weren't released to the public, as there was no need to initially. After the first media release occurred, they received a call from someone inquiring if the young man had these characteristics...
grievousangel
12-27-2006, 09:52 AM
Have the Grateful Dead themselves been contacted about this young man's death? My thought is that the fans of the band may not be in tune to watching TV news, reading mainstream newpapers etc....so anyone who may have had contact with him quite possibly doesn't even know of his death and status as an unidentified person. If the GD have a website/blog etc. where the fans regularly check ...it might be a long shot but someone might recognize the John Doe if his picture and story were posted on a GD website. Just a thought.
When this first happened, some physical characteristics weren't released to the public, as there was no need to initially. After the first media release occurred, they received a call from someone inquiring if the young man had these characteristics...
IF this is correct and your statement that the family of this young man does know where he is and as chosen not to claim him then I think maybe its time
society does for him what he deserves. Prehaps its time funds me raised to give him a proper burial. I suppose ( as awful as this is) a family can choose to abandon their love one in death but that does not mean the rest of society has to . Maybe its time we calim him back as a fellow human being.
mjak
marylandmissing
12-27-2006, 10:10 AM
Have the Grateful Dead themselves been contacted about this young man's death? My thought is that the fans of the band may not be in tune to watching TV news, reading mainstream newpapers etc....so anyone who may have had contact with him quite possibly doesn't even know of his death and status as an unidentified person. If the GD have a website/blog etc. where the fans regularly check ...it might be a long shot but someone might recognize the John Doe if his picture and story were posted on a GD website. Just a thought.
Just because John Doe went to a concert, doesn't mean he was following the Dead...The case has been posted on countless Grateful Dead sites...
marylandmissing
12-27-2006, 10:21 AM
IF this is correct and your statement that the family of this young man does know where he is and as chosen not to claim him then I think maybe its time
society does for him what he deserves. Prehaps its time funds me raised to give him a proper burial. I suppose ( as awful as this is) a family can choose to abandon their love one in death but that does not mean the rest of society has to . Maybe its time we calim him back as a fellow human being.
mjak
He's either buried already, or has been cremated. Forget what the disposal method was on this one.
Richard
12-27-2006, 11:02 AM
He's either buried already, or has been cremated. Forget what the disposal method was on this one.
In late 1996 or early 1997, this young man's body was being held in a frozen state at the State Medical Examiner's Office in Richmond, Virginia.
At that time, an attempt to match the body to a missing man was made, and for that examination, the body was thawed and many tests were run, x-rays were taken, more photos made, and DNA extracted. Although many physical similarities existed between the two, a positive match was ruled out.
I do not know the present disposition of the body, but the ME Office in Richmond, VA would.
*~Kashmir~*
12-27-2006, 11:24 AM
I read somewhere that the body has been cremated.
There was talk on GratefulDeadnet of Heads trying to do something to 'adopt' him or something, just to get him a proper burial. Regardless if he was a die-hard deadhead or or, his story has sparked a lot of empathy in the deadhead community. Many of us have been in situation where a ride was hitched, going to shows without ID, etc.... The general feeling is "If it happened to me, I'd want to be ID'd so my loved ones knew...."
grievousangel
12-27-2006, 12:59 PM
I love the GD but never became a ''follower'' ...glad to hear this case was well publicised amongst the fan base...still hard to fathom someone somewhere hasn't come forward ...it could still happen, never give up hope.
christine2448
12-27-2006, 01:39 PM
I wish there were 'real' pictures to look at. Someone asked about this earlier, Richard, do you know of any actual photo's we could view?
I am getting ready to put this fellow up on my MySpace, I have his page as a friend, but I'm going to put his picture on my profile (which has rotating pictures of uid's), add him to the slide show and do a post about him on my blog.
Some one some where knows something!
http://www.myspace.com/do_u_recognize_me
*~Kashmir~*
12-27-2006, 02:23 PM
I don't know if there were pictures but the reports I read state that he was in pretty bad shape after the accident. Apparrently he went through the windshield and hit a pine tree :~(
*~Kashmir~*
12-27-2006, 05:00 PM
bump.......
Mr. E
12-27-2006, 07:52 PM
Has anybody thought of Dustin Mansell? He was abducted at age 5, but there is a picture of him at age 12 (1990). He would have been about the same age as this John Doe. He had natural red hair. He might have gone by the name "Jason." As an abducted child (parental abduction), maybe that would explain why nobody has come forward to claim the remains.
Only problem: Dustin had blue eyes, while the John Doe had brown eyes.
Here's his link:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/183dmca.html
christine2448
12-28-2006, 12:12 AM
Has anybody thought of Dustin Mansell? He was abducted at age 5, but there is a picture of him at age 12 (1990). He would have been about the same age as this John Doe. He had natural red hair. He might have gone by the name "Jason." As an abducted child (parental abduction), maybe that would explain why nobody has come forward to claim the remains.
Only problem: Dustin had blue eyes, while the John Doe had brown eyes.
Here's his link:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/183dmca.htmlWow. the younger picture does have some resemblance.
NOTE...I am working on more than one case where the Doe network has had incorrect info.....one inparticular DOE said there were dentals available, and there were NOT. They may have the eye color wrong...look at the pic of the boy, the 1st pic, the eyes DO NOT LOOK BLUE to me.....just a thought...maybe this needs to be looked into???
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/GDdoe.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/DMansell.jpg
LisainWV
01-02-2007, 04:03 PM
Has anybody thought of Dustin Mansell? He was abducted at age 5, but there is a picture of him at age 12 (1990). He would have been about the same age as this John Doe. He had natural red hair. He might have gone by the name "Jason." As an abducted child (parental abduction), maybe that would explain why nobody has come forward to claim the remains.
Only problem: Dustin had blue eyes, while the John Doe had brown eyes.
Here's his link:
http://www.doenetwork.us/cases/183dmca.html
Mr. E, this does seem possible. anyone made contact with anyone to check it out?
kygal
01-03-2007, 10:47 PM
That last one could be -- I could see it. I am new here, but I have tried to keep up with things. However, I have to think that this was NOT a follower of the Grateful Dead. I am about the same age as he would be (15 in 1995), and that music was not all that popular with too many kids -- at least not enough to follow too much. Probably one concert, but not to follow. The style kinda reminds me of the "grunge" style that was popular at the time. The shoes, shirt and other things were all a part of the look. If he was only in the 16 to 18 year age range, the tatoo would have either had to have been homemade or done by someone without a lisence (sp?) because it is illegal to give a tattoo without a parent's permission. I know several people who went to the concert from this area -- but we live over 6 hours away.
Also, I would like to know if anyone knows if the note was written by one or two people. My reason for this is that "See you around" was used as a kind of blow-off, or an indication that you did not intend to see the person again for some time. Perhaps one of the girls meant it as a blowoff, but the other might have wanted him to call her. Maybe this has not come to their attention, especially if they were also not followers of the band and only went to one concert. They could have went in a completely opposite direction and never though another thing about a young man they met at the concert. Maybe they DID know him and perhaps he was going south from a northern area, while they were heading back north. Thus, they may not think about him being gone for a very long time.
This is just a theory, I'm not sure if it leads anywhere.
christine2448
01-04-2007, 09:03 AM
anyone made contact with anyone to check it out?
I just emailed Trying2ID, the person who initially brought this case here to see if this has ever been looked into...if I don't get a response I will contact LE on both cases to give the tip (unless one of you all have already done it?), crediting Mr E and you all here of course!
Richard
01-04-2007, 10:43 PM
The following article is over ten years old, but it contains a lot of factual information about this case. Note that the phone number listed at the end might not be valid today.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Hitchhiker Killed In '95 Crash Still Unidentified
The Washington Times
Sunday, July 7, 1996
By Bill Baskervill, Associated Press
Emporia, VA -- A year after his death, a young man with a star tattooed on his arm, Grateful Dead concert ticket stubs in his pocket and a letter from two Carolines lies unidentified on a cold mortuary slab.
He was in his 20's -- and except for the letter -- carried no identification on June 26, 1995 when the Volkswagen van in which he was riding rammed two large loblolly pines along Route 58 three miles west of Emporia.
In the pockets of his Levi's 505 jeans were the ticket stubs, four quarters, a yellow cigarette lighter and this note: "To Jason, Sorry we had to go. See you around. Caroline O. and Caroline T."
Jason - if that is his name - waits for someone to claim his remains from the state Medical Examiner's Office in Richmond.
"I would like to find out who he is and close it out," said State Police Trooper T. E. Jones who is frustrated by the leads on the man's identity.
Trooper Jones said the driver of the van, Michael Eric Hager, 21, of Inman, SC, aparently fell asleep. Mr. Hager, a student at the University of South Carolina, and his lone passenger were flung through the windshield and into the trees, Trooper Jones said. Both died of massive head injuries.
The Trooper believes the passenger had attended a Grateful Dead concert in Washington's RFK Stadium the weekend before the Monday accident.
He said Mr. Hager left his girlfriend's Fairfax County home around 7:45 a.m. on the day of the crash and picked up the hitchhiker later. Mr. Hager drove to his father's house in Gloucester County, where neighbors told the trooper they remembered seeing another man with Mr. Hager. The two left Gloucester County about noon, according to the message Mr. Hager left for his father. That would have put them at the accicent scene about 1:30 p.m., the trooper said.
Mr. Hager was enroute to his mother's home in Inman. Where the hitchhiker was headed is not known. Evidently, he was not following the Grateful Dead tour because the band's next date was in the Midwest and Mr. Hager was headed south, Trooper Jones noted.
The hitchhiker was wearing a Gratreful Dead Summer Tour 1995 T-shirt, light blue denim jeans, blue Fila athletic shoes, white athletic socks and macrame and bead necklaces. He was white, 5 teet 8 inches tall, 169 pounds. He had shoulder-length brown hair and brown eyes.
A crudely drawn star tattoo was on his upper left arm. His left earlobe was pierced, but there was no earring.
Trooper Jones has run the hitchhiker's fingerprints through the FBI database and sent his description to every police agency in the country to no avail. He found the man who sold the two Grateful Dead tickets, but to someone other than the hitchhiker. The tickets, for seats in separate sections of RFK Stadium, could have changed hands many times before the hitchhiker got them.
The next step is to check the fingerprints with the Secret Service, which has a larger database than the FBI, the trooper said.
Gladys Culp of Salisbury, NC took up Jason's cause by shopping the story to news organizations. She has mailed journalists copies of a Virginia State Police sketch of the man and a summary of the case.
"I just felt bad there would be somebody that young out there," said Mrs. Culp, who has sons ages 17, 18, and 21. "Maybe he has a family searching for him."
Robert Holloway, administrator of the state Medical Examiner's Office, said it is unusual for a body to remain unidentified for as long as the hitchhiker's. The state will hold the body indefinitely, he said.
Authorities urge anyone with information about the hitchhiker to call Virginia State Police Trooper Jones at 804-634-4454
----------------------
note: The article also had a copy of an artist's sketch of the unknown man which has been posted on many websites since. Under it was the following caption: This is a sketch of the unidentified man who died in a June 26, 1995, crash near Emporia, Va.
*~Kashmir~*
01-07-2007, 12:54 AM
Thanks for posting that Richard :)
Peace
*~Kashmir~*
01-09-2007, 12:39 PM
bump.
islanders
01-11-2007, 10:48 PM
Hello everyone,
There was a possible identification in a Grateful Dead forum. I looked up the name and found the address and family. I reported this tip to the Missing Children’s site, and the Virginia Medical Examiner’s office and emaild them, but the person who was assigned to he case no longer worked there, my emails were discarded.
I called around and finally tracked down the office and person in charge of the case but didn’t talk to her directly. One of her colleagues said she would tell her.
I followed up with a phone call and left a message but still haven’t heard back.
It’s only been two weeks. I’m going to call again tomorrow and find a personal email.
But it has been frustrating! No one will even bother to return a call or email, saying yes or no!
I haven’t posted any personal information on the possible victim’s family. Also, I want to try and contact the VME again, so there wont be any misunderstanding.
I didn’t want to call this family on my own, so I’ll call the police tomorrow also, and I might need some help if I keep getting ignored.
I’ll check back in next week and let you know if anyone has done anything with the possible ID.
John
shipmatekate
01-12-2007, 12:31 PM
[QUOTE=islanders]Hello everyone,
There was a possible identification in a Grateful Dead forum. I looked up the name and found the address and family. I reported this tip to the Missing Children’s site, and the Virginia Medical Examiner’s office and emaild them, but the person who was assigned to he case no longer worked there, my emails were discarded.
I called around and finally tracked down the office and person in charge of the case but didn’t talk to her directly. One of her colleagues said she would tell her.
I followed up with a phone call and left a message but still haven’t heard back.
It’s only been two weeks. I’m going to call again tomorrow and find a personal email.
But it has been frustrating! No one will even bother to return a call or email, saying yes or no!
I haven’t posted any personal information on the possible victim’s family. Also, I want to try and contact the VME again, so there wont be any misunderstanding.
I didn’t want to call this family on my own, so I’ll call the police tomorrow also, and I might need some help if I keep getting ignored.
I’ll check back in next week and let you know if anyone has done anything with the possible ID.
Fabulous news, this case has really bothered me for a long time.
*~Kashmir~*
01-12-2007, 09:39 PM
Hello everyone,
There was a possible identification in a Grateful Dead forum. I looked up the name and found the address and family. I reported this tip to the Missing Children’s site, and the Virginia Medical Examiner’s office and emaild them, but the person who was assigned to he case no longer worked there, my emails were discarded.
I called around and finally tracked down the office and person in charge of the case but didn’t talk to her directly. One of her colleagues said she would tell her.
I followed up with a phone call and left a message but still haven’t heard back.
It’s only been two weeks. I’m going to call again tomorrow and find a personal email.
But it has been frustrating! No one will even bother to return a call or email, saying yes or no!
I haven’t posted any personal information on the possible victim’s family. Also, I want to try and contact the VME again, so there wont be any misunderstanding.
I didn’t want to call this family on my own, so I’ll call the police tomorrow also, and I might need some help if I keep getting ignored.
I’ll check back in next week and let you know if anyone has done anything with the possible ID.
JohnWow John!!! That would be so great if you found his family!!
if you need any help at all, please message me. I really want to see this guy ID'd and properly buried.
Much love and peace,
Kashmir
*~Kashmir~*
01-15-2007, 01:09 PM
bump.
Richard
01-15-2007, 03:07 PM
I first posted this case on a Grateful Dead Forum back in 1996, about a year after the fatal accident which claimed this young man's life. There were some interesting comments and hints toward possible identifications or links to "missing" friends. I remember persons who thought that it might be this "Jason" or that "Jason", but they usually could only provide a vague description or memory. Nothing came of it.
islanders
01-22-2007, 08:14 PM
Both the Missing and Exploited Childrens Agency and Virginia Medical Examiner are following though with the lead I mentioned. I did get an email and they said they would let me know if it panned out.
It was good lead. Someone said that looks just like someone they traveled with , and gave a name and location, but there is also a margin of error with a photo like that…
Anyway, when I hear something I’ll report back.
*~Kashmir~*
01-23-2007, 02:10 AM
Is the lead you gave them a guy (I won't say the name out of respect) from Pa?
the reason I ask is because I recently talked to the man who's in charge of the case at the Center for Missing and Exploited Children with a lead of my own (than didn't pan out....damn) and they mentioned this other good lead.
I'm still trying........
*~Kashmir~*
01-27-2007, 03:22 PM
bump....
Gozer Jr
01-30-2007, 05:40 PM
Just saw his case on UM last night, think we'll ever crack this one?
*~Kashmir~*
02-02-2007, 01:59 AM
Just saw his case on UM last night, think we'll ever crack this one?I'm not giving up :~)
Spazkat9696
02-04-2007, 11:38 AM
I hope this one is solved I have been watching it for years. I guess because he would be my age also this happened not to far from where I live and I have driven by there many times it's the quickest way to 95 south from Va Beach
rpipergirl
02-07-2007, 11:37 AM
This case was an alert on unsolved mysteries. It aired again last week on LRW.
I have also posted him on my sitefor missing ,murdered and unidentified kids.
I have to belive there are anguished parents somewhere searching for their son.
Mr. E
02-07-2007, 11:55 AM
This case is so frustrating because it seems so solvable! He's got a very distinct look, he's associated with a particular group, there is a phone number on the note -- it just seems like something that would have been resolved right away.
I'm beginning to be inclined toward what someone else had said earlier: maybe his people do know his fate, but for whatever reason (money?) have chosen not to reveal his identity.
Or maybe he's just some poor lost kid, a runaway or a throwaway, and nobody even cares that he's missing. Nobody is looking for him.
I'd better stop before I sink further into depression...
*~Kashmir~*
02-18-2007, 11:23 AM
Bump
Someone, somewhere knows something. Don't give up!
Helper
02-20-2007, 04:25 PM
Last month, there was a post on the Gathering of the Vibes forum in which "Mindbender" stated that he had seen a young fellow who looked exactly like Jason Doe at a Grateful Dead concert at Nassau Colliseum, Long Island. He dates the concert as 4/4/93 or 3/24/94. The interesting part is that at the end of the show the fellow who looked like Jason was dancing around naked and security was ready to apprehend him. Mindbender speculates that perhaps there was an arrest for indecent exposure resulting from the incident, which would give us the name of our possible person.
Jessiebell
02-20-2007, 08:05 PM
I just found this link and it's hitting home because I attended this concert and drove his route. I came up from Savannah, Ga from art school that summer to see the Dead at RFK and then traveled home back down I95.
The thing nagging me is that I have this faint recall of a Rainbow Gathering happening in Ocala, FL during that time and a lot of people from the concert leaving to go to Ocala - or go "back" to Ocala. The Dead/Rainbow connection is very strong.
I'm not sure about my memory on this - but has his picture been posted at the various Rainbow Websites? If no one is claiming this kid - it makes sense that he would have maybe traveled with the family since you kind of can easily drop out of society when doing so. People stop showing up all the time so if his main contacts were through the Rainbows - it would have a chance of not being reported.
These are not usually folks that watch TV or surf the web - to have seen that he was killed - but would care, very very much. I noticed that the more technologically friendly of the crowd have started using the web for communicating and such - I'd be happy to post his picture and info at the sites I know of, if no one else has.
Wonderful people, by the way and will bend over backwards to help.
Jessiebell
02-20-2007, 09:05 PM
I did post at a couple of boards that I know are frequented by Rainbows.
The cool thing is that there is a good reason for there to be a lot of traffic from Eastern Coast people that frequent those gatherings/ Dead shows and the like right now - so it was a good time to draw attention to him on those boards.
kittykat1
02-20-2007, 09:59 PM
Both the Missing and Exploited Childrens Agency and Virginia Medical Examiner are following though with the lead I mentioned. I did get an email and they said they would let me know if it panned out.
It was good lead. Someone said that looks just like someone they traveled with , and gave a name and location, but there is also a margin of error with a photo like that…
Anyway, when I hear something I’ll report back.
Well??? I am on pins and needles here. I wish they would get back to you. I also have read that he had excellent dental hygiene. I wonder if dentists throughout the south or southeast have seen his picture? I wonder if there is a gathering place where dentists go to chat? Maybe his picture could be posted there and something might just ring a bell.
Helper
02-21-2007, 04:24 PM
Shouldn't the Ocala National Forest gathering be going on about right now? I was down there over Valentine's Day weekend two years ago.
islanders
02-24-2007, 12:23 AM
Well??? I am on pins and needles here. I wish they would get back to you. I also have read that he had excellent dental hygiene. I wonder if dentists throughout the south or southeast have seen his picture? I wonder if there is a gathering place where dentists go to chat? Maybe his picture could be posted there and something might just ring a bell.
I'll email them again, but since then this case had been broadcast on national tv again. (read above)
This case is also at the Doe pages. You can follow it there.
islanders
02-24-2007, 01:01 AM
Sorry for the double post.
I think they should go ahead and have a funeral for him. There should be a data base for missing people like this, but after a certain amount of time they should put this person to rest.
It's possble that he only had a single mother (or father) who had other siblings and simply couldn't afford a funeral.
He could be from anywhere in the western hemisphere.
maybe we should all give more support to places like the Doe pages.
someone might recognize him from a rainbow gathering, but lets face it, that's a slim chance, as not many people from 95 will be at the gatherings in 2007.
He has a very familiar appearance. Give it your best shot, but at this point he should be put to rest, and his memory (record) kept alive.
I think it would be harder on the family if they found out he was in a morgue for over ten years and not put to rest.
peace
John
Jenna
03-07-2007, 11:44 AM
Do you know any other information on the Leslie and Shawn Jones case? I'd appreciate hearing any info you know on their disappearance.
Thanks.
Spazkat9696
03-07-2007, 02:52 PM
Do you know any other information on the Leslie and Shawn Jones case? I'd appreciate hearing any info you know on their disappearance.
Thanks.
http://www.ther olladailynews.com/articles/2007/03/03/news/news02.txt
I guess this is what you are talking about what does it have to do with this case?
Helper
03-08-2007, 05:10 PM
I think Jenna is referring to Post #17 in this thread, by Pondering Things, from December 30, 2005. I think it's just a coincidence that Jenna posted it about the same time that there was a person named Shawn Jones involved in an apparently unrelated missing persons matter. I was a bit confused, too.
Jenna
03-08-2007, 07:01 PM
Yes, right, I was referring to the post by Pondering Things, and had no idea there was another Shawn Jones involved in another case. Sorry for the confusion.
I've been following the Shawn and Leslie Jones case for a number of years and would like more information, if any more is known.
They both disappeared in 1993 from Cape Croker in Ontario. There were apparently a couple of sightings of them shortly after their disappearance, but that's all that's known.
If Pondering things, or anyone else, has any other information on the case, I'd much appreciate hearing it.
Richard
04-23-2007, 11:29 AM
Throughout these Cold Case threads, there are references to murder victims or missing persons who were believed to be followers of the rock band, The Grateful Dead.
Here are a few links to those cases. I do not know if any of them are related to each other except for the reference to the Grateful Dead.
Any thoughts on the subject? Any other cases linked to Grateful Dead Fans?
---------------------------------------------
Links:
Summerfield Jane Doe - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41401
Possible Matches - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47655&highlight=grateful+dead
Unidentified White Woman, 20-35, Died June>Dec 1995, South Bend, Indiana - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36271&highlight=grateful+dead
Mitchel Fred Weiser and Bonita Mara Bickwit: Missing since 27 July 1973 NY - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26862&highlight=grateful+dead
Peter John McColl - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40444&highlight=grateful+dead
BTK Serial Killer from Kansas Returns - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7125&highlight=grateful+dead
christine2448
04-23-2007, 11:35 AM
Wow. the younger picture does have some resemblance.
NOTE...I am working on more than one case where the Doe network has had incorrect info.....one inparticular DOE said there were dentals available, and there were NOT. They may have the eye color wrong...look at the pic of the boy, the 1st pic, the eyes DO NOT LOOK BLUE to me.....just a thought...maybe this needs to be looked into???
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/GDdoe.jpghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y171/christine2448/DMansell.jpg
I never heard back from Trying2ID...and to be honest, I hate to admit it, I had forgotton about this case for a couple of weeks.....anything new?
What about this potential match?? Has it ever been submitted? I was going to do it, but I forgot, I'm sorry, I am horrible! I think I was waiting on a response from Trying2ID. I also messaged the myspace page w/no response.
I know a couple of submissions have been made, but is this one, should it be?
legendofcroft
05-13-2007, 02:59 AM
i apologize if anyone has posted this previously, but i stumbled on this guy's missing page again... and then after googling found out someone else on another site had already tried this but got nothing back from LE as far as i can see...
http://charleyproject.org/cases/k/kellar_robert.html
once again, sorry if someone has posted this already. something about this guy just strikes me in a funny way that i could be him.
rhyno1974
05-31-2007, 06:11 PM
Does anyone think that this could be a possible match? What sparked my attention is that it states he was last seen in Washington, D.C. on May 1, 1995 which was only a month or so before the concert. He must have been somewhat of a drifter as he was seen in Newfoundland in 1994 and he was originally from Swastika, Ont.
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1975dmon.html
David Thomas Block
Missing since May 1, 1995 from Swastika, Ontario, Canada
Classification: Missing
Vital Statistics
Date Of Birth: June 29, 1959
Age at Time of Disappearance: 34 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'9" (175 cm); 154 lbs. (70 kg)
Distinguishing Characteristics: White male. Straight blond hair; blue eyes.
AKA: Dave
Circumstances of Disappearance
David Block was reported missing from Swastika, Ontario.
He had been seen in Newfoundland in 1994.
Mr. Block suffered from mental health issues that could bring him to the attention of authorities.
He was last seen in Washington D.C., U.S.A, on May 1, 1995.
Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Ontario Provincial Police
Missing Persons and Unidentified Bodies/Remains Unit
1-877-934-6363 - Toll Free in North America
705-330-4144 - Local or outside of North America
Email (opp.isb.resolve@jus.gov.on.ca)
OR
Crime Stoppers
1-800-222-TIPS (8477)
Agency Case Number: 20060194
NCIC Number:
Please refer to this number when contacting any agency with information regarding this case. Source Information:
Ontario Provincial Police - Missing Persons and Unidentified Bodies/Remains Unit (http://www.opp.ca/missing/m20060194.htm)
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