Law Enforcement Statement Analysis

[Sabrina]

http://www.statementanalysis.com/lying/

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

Don't recall ever seeing this before. I do know that the case is often discussed in law enforcement classes.

[ajt400]

That is a good analysis of the ransom note....probably one of the best I have seen.

[tipper]

I've read it before but not at that site.

I wonder what part of the country he grew up in? I've heard and used "and hence" all my life so I've never thought the phrase was particularly strange or unique.

[Barbara]

Thanks Sabrina,

That was excellent and made so much sense, it boggles the mind that anyone would still wonder who wrote the note, AND HENCE, responsible for JonBenet's death.

[ajt400]

It did make sense, some of it was out there, though. I have used hence before......

[Sabrina]

Tipper, I have hardly heard "and hence" or "hence" used at all and I've lived on both coasts, plus two countries in Europe.

I don't know where Mark is from originally, but he has lived in Georgia for at least 8 years:
"From 1991 - 1999, I taught interviewing techniques at the United States Marshals Service Training Academy which is located at the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center (FLETC) in Glynco, Georgia. "

However, I recently looked at an old textbook and it was full of "hences". I guess I never paid attention to it when I took the course!

Edited to mean "hence"...no "AND" before the hence... That is incorrect grammar.

[tipper]

So what we have is a perp who grew up in either Vergennes or Burlington, Vermont and kidded his way through academic papers while in law school.

Piece o' cake!

[sissi]

No,I live in Maryland and have used hence and myriad all of my life,both of which often are used by "some" with an "and" in front. My mother used hence,my sisters use hence,it never struck me as odd . We purchased "attache's" for the men at Christmastime. We never used the word countermeasures,that IMO was the interesting word in the ransom note. That always sounded military IMO,maybe the someone who wrote the note was involved in military intelligence. (before losing his mind of course).

[Sabrina]

Maryland is close to West Virginia, isn't it?

[Cherokee]

Originally posted by Sabrina
Maryland is close to West Virginia, isn't it?

Got that right, Sabrina, I was thinking the same thing. The two states share a border.

[Ivy]

Originally posted by sissi
We never used the word countermeasures,that IMO was the interesting word in the ransom note. That always sounded military IMO,maybe the someone who wrote the note was involved in military intelligence. (before losing his mind of course).

sissi, as you may recall, John Ramsey was in the military in the 1960s. He was a Naval officer. The word, "countermeasures" would be a word he'd be quite familiar with.

I think that Patsy penned the note, but that she and John together decided what it would say; and hence, both their "signatures" are there, in the wording of the note.

[ajt400]

Very good use of hence....but I don't think you needed the "and."

[ajt400]

:laugh: :bigthumb:

[Ivy]

ajt, Patsy was grammatically incorrect when she used "and" with "hence." If I hadn't written "and hence," I wouldn't be accurately mimicking Patsy, now would I?

I don't understand why you considered your post so hilarious and such a snappy comeback to my post that you had to make another post to pat yourself on the back with smilies.

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Sabrina
http://www.statementanalysis.com/lying/

http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

Don't recall ever seeing this before. I do know that the case is often discussed in law enforcement classes.

WOW...thanks for info...I'm off and trying to buy this read/book but not having much luck...but I'm persistant!!!LOL!!! THANK YOU again for info--I'd heard there was a manual/info somewhere for Law Enforcement to learn from...not sure this the same info...:D

[TLynn]

The comparison of "and hence" used with duplicate wording (delivery & hope) shows more than the usage, but the same style of writing.

His analysis is excellent throughout the whole note.

Bottom line: murder covered up as a kidnapping; written by a female. JonBenet was already dead when the note was written; hence a fake kidnapping used to cover-up a murder.

[BrotherMoon]

The problem I have with this analysis is the assumption that it is supposed to have something to do with real people and events. I think it doesn't. The assumption is the note is meant to deceive the police and that it is directed at John. I don't think this is correct.

The absurd and improbable ransom amount and the mysterious sign off should be the key to an understanding. The unreality of these main elements should be extrapolated to the whole note so that the entire content of the note should be seen as not relating to the real world, rather the content of the note should be seen as pertaining to the psyche of the author, including the names Mr. Ramsey and John.

Those names should be replaced by the word "God" and "your daughter" should be seen as refering to Patsy herself.

The author of the note is a split off persona complex that usurped Patsy in the manner of disociative identity disorder.

The note can then be understood as a directive to God to deliver the meaning of Psalms 118 to the author with the result of the return of Patsy as the major persona identity.

I think the note was written before the deed was completed and maybe before the whole thing started. It was meant to insure results for something uncompleted.

The afore mentioned analysis does not take into account the complexity of Patsy Paugh Ramsey, her intellect and particularly her reading habits and theatricality. It's major fault is the failure to connect the strange irrational content of the note to literature Patsy is known to have been deeply involved in.

[tipper]

Originally posted by Blazeboy3
FWIW... THAT PHRASE: AND HENCE (or just HENCE)?

(F)or (W)hat (I)t's (W)orth:(FWIW): and hence (or HENCE) is not any where close to majority/normal/common "statement, etc." --very very very rare...IMHO obsolete(nil).!:rolleyes:

Very, very, very rare?

From a Google search that excludes JonBenet references:

Interesting observation of the BB and hence human nature, etc. ... Follow Ups:



LAM: BLACS (and hence Scalapack). ... To: lam@xxxxxxxxxx; Subject: LAM: BLACS
(and hence Scalapack); From: Mark Hagger <mhagger@xxxxxxxxxxx>; ...


svg image is to large and hence truncated when converted to pdf. ...


Calculation of differential absorption, and hence axial ratio, of ordinary
and extraordinary ray, propagating along magnetic field lines. ...

Female sticklebacks use male coloration in mate choice and hence ...
letters to nature Nature 344, 330 - 333 (1990); doi:10.1038/344330a0

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... graduate? Yes No Undecided Not Applicable 347 97% 3 1% 7 2% 2 1% NOTE:
percentages are rounded and hence exceed 100% Page 11. Appendix ...


ECN: Please help Pakistani IT Industry and hence Pakistan's ailing economy.
Shahzad O. Burney shahzad at cisco.com Wed Mar 20 18:44:46 PKT 2002: ...


How the US Presidents and the Pentagon Misperceived and Hence Lost
the Vietnam War Lev Navrozov Friday, Feb. 28, 2003. In the mid ...


... [c_plus_plus_programming] RE: and hence came process space, dynamically
allocated memory and de structors again. From: John Elkins; ...


Contributions, suggestions, comments, criticisms needed, and hence welcomed
- thank you! Participate in workshops and information sessions. ...
www.sn.apc.org/nitf/liz/tsld029.htm - 2k - Cached - Similar pages

DEFINITION: "All sports are inherently competitive and hence ...
SPORT IS WAR: THE ROLE OF GENDER. A quick definition of sport:


and so on...



There are another 2 million+ hits but it will take me a while to post them all

[Toltec]

Great find Sabrina...I have come to believe John had a hand in writing the note along with Patsy. John seems to use most of the phrases found in the ransom letter. His military experience, his experience with computer language, etc...

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by TLynn
The comparison of "and hence" used with duplicate wording (delivery & hope) shows more than the usage, but the same style of writing.

His analysis is excellent throughout the whole note.

Bottom line: murder covered up as a kidnapping; written by a female. JonBenet was already dead when the note was written; hence a fake kidnapping used to cover-up a murder.

:) :p ;) :D TLynn:I agree(as in DITTO!)!

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by BrotherMoon
The problem I have with this analysis is the assumption that it is supposed to have something to do with real people and events. I think it doesn't. The assumption is the note is meant to deceive the police and that it is directed at John. I don't think this is correct.

The absurd and improbable ransom amount and the mysterious sign off should be the key to an understanding. The unreality of these main elements should be extrapolated to the whole note so that the entire content of the note should be seen as not relating to the real world, rather the content of the note should be seen as pertaining to the psyche of the author, including the names Mr. Ramsey and John.

Those names should be replaced by the word "God" and "your daughter" should be seen as refering to Patsy herself.

The author of the note is a split off persona complex that usurped Patsy in the manner of disociative identity disorder.

The note can then be understood as a directive to God to deliver the meaning of Psalms 118 to the author with the result of the return of Patsy as the major persona identity.

I think the note was written before the deed was completed and maybe before the whole thing started. It was meant to insure results for something uncompleted.

The afore mentioned analysis does not take into account the complexity of Patsy Paugh Ramsey, her intellect and particularly her reading habits and theatricality. It's major fault is the failure to connect the strange irrational content of the note to literature Patsy is known to have been deeply involved in.

I do think I know what you said/posted ... but am still confused(not sure)as to why/how ...so help me out here please ok--in english(plain & simple) ok?: Did Patsy "DROP HER BASKET!?"...as to say:change courses in her focus/goals? ... yes/no/maybe? ...
:dontknow: :confused: :mad: :rolleyes: :cool: :nono: :dontknow:

[Imon128]

Interesting analysis. One thing I didn't see mentioned, that I think is important, is the use of the upside caret. That is, it's upside down IMO. Further, it ties in with how I feel the writer intended to disguise his/her writing.

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by tipper
Very, very, very rare?

From a Google search that excludes JonBenet references:

Interesting observation of the BB and hence human nature, etc. ... Follow Ups:



LAM: BLACS (and hence Scalapack). ... To: lam@xxxxxxxxxx; Subject: LAM: BLACS
(and hence Scalapack); From: Mark Hagger <mhagger@xxxxxxxxxxx>; ...


svg image is to large and hence truncated when converted to pdf. ...


Calculation of differential absorption, and hence axial ratio, of ordinary
and extraordinary ray, propagating along magnetic field lines. ...

Female sticklebacks use male coloration in mate choice and hence ...
letters to nature Nature 344, 330 - 333 (1990); doi:10.1038/344330a0

File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
... graduate? Yes No Undecided Not Applicable 347 97% 3 1% 7 2% 2 1% NOTE:
percentages are rounded and hence exceed 100% Page 11. Appendix ...


ECN: Please help Pakistani IT Industry and hence Pakistan's ailing economy.
Shahzad O. Burney shahzad at cisco.com Wed Mar 20 18:44:46 PKT 2002: ...


How the US Presidents and the Pentagon Misperceived and Hence Lost
the Vietnam War Lev Navrozov Friday, Feb. 28, 2003. In the mid ...


... [c_plus_plus_programming] RE: and hence came process space, dynamically
allocated memory and de structors again. From: John Elkins; ...


Contributions, suggestions, comments, criticisms needed, and hence welcomed
- thank you! Participate in workshops and information sessions. ...
www.sn.apc.org/nitf/liz/tsld029.htm - 2k - Cached - Similar pages

DEFINITION: "All sports are inherently competitive and hence ...
SPORT IS WAR: THE ROLE OF GENDER. A quick definition of sport:


and so on...



There are another 2 million+ hits but it will take me a while to post them all

Tipper: Help...I'm not sure I get it (regarding JonBenet) ... muchly appreciated if you could educate me!...(THANK YOU!)!:)

[candy]

Interesting link:

http://home.earthlink.net/~vortextube/projects/ramsey_font/

[BrotherMoon]

I don't want to download into this laptop.

A synopsis would be appreciated.

[Maxi]

It's a font made to look like the handwriting in the ransom note.

[BrotherMoon]

I see, duh. Thanks.

[Shawna]

LSI Laboratory for Scientific Interrogation, Inc.


The LSI Laboratory conducted a Scientific Content Analysis on the Ramsey's press conference and their TV interview. They concluded that John Ramsey is the killer.

"The subject didn't introduce "Patsy as my wife". This would amount to an improper introduction indicating a bad relationship".

"This should bring us to conclude that while John perceives himself as distant from Patsy, Patsy perceives herself as close to John".

"The subject used the proper introduction" ("our daughter") only in proximity to the words "died" and "buried". However, when talking about her in regard to the time when she was alive he used either her first name ("JonBenet") or "child".

"Usually, the word "child" might indicate that speaker might have been abused earlier in childhood, and very likely sexual abuse".

"The "editing process" means that the subject can report to us only what the subject knows/remembers. What the subject does not know/remember, the subject would not report to us".

"Therefore, the phrase "I don't know/remember" in an open statement (which is controlled by the "editing process", unlike answers to specific questions) is a signal of suppressing knowledge".

"The subject said, "But the thing to remember about her..." The subject didn't say, "But the thing I remember about her..."

"John Ramsey said:

"...when I opened the door, there were no windows in that room and I turned the light on and I... that was her."

"Please note that when a subject mentions "turning the lights on" in an open statement, it has been found in the past to be associated with a sexual motive for the crime."

'After the denial, Patsy Ramsey added a sentence: "I loved that child with my whole of my heart and soul."

"The word "child" in conjunction with the word "love" should raise the suspicion that Patsy Ramsey knows that JonBenet was sexually abused. It might also indicate that Patsy Ramsey herself might have been abused earlier in childhood, and very likely sexual abuse."


"Conclusion: There are enough signals in the language to indicate that John Ramsey is involved in the murder of JonBenet. Patsy Ramsey is likely to have known of the sexual abuse".

:nono:

http://www.lsiscan.com/ramsey_s_t_v__interview.htm


http://www.lsiscan.com/ramsey_s_press_conference.htm

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Shawna
LSI Laboratory for Scientific Interrogation, Inc.


The LSI Laboratory conducted a Scientific Content Analysis on the Ramsey's press conference and their TV interview. They concluded that John Ramsey is the killer.

"The subject didn't introduce "Patsy as my wife". This would amount to an improper introduction indicating a bad relationship".

"This should bring us to conclude that while John perceives himself as distant from Patsy, Patsy perceives herself as close to John".

"The subject used the proper introduction" ("our daughter") only in proximity to the words "died" and "buried". However, when talking about her in regard to the time when she was alive he used either her first name ("JonBenet") or "child".

"Usually, the word "child" might indicate that speaker might have been abused earlier in childhood, and very likely sexual abuse".

"The "editing process" means that the subject can report to us only what the subject knows/remembers. What the subject does not know/remember, the subject would not report to us".

"Therefore, the phrase "I don't know/remember" in an open statement (which is controlled by the "editing process", unlike answers to specific questions) is a signal of suppressing knowledge".

"The subject said, "But the thing to remember about her..." The subject didn't say, "But the thing I remember about her..."

"John Ramsey said:

"...when I opened the door, there were no windows in that room and I turned the light on and I... that was her."

"Please note that when a subject mentions "turning the lights on" in an open statement, it has been found in the past to be associated with a sexual motive for the crime."

'After the denial, Patsy Ramsey added a sentence: "I loved that child with my whole of my heart and soul."

"The word "child" in conjunction with the word "love" should raise the suspicion that Patsy Ramsey knows that JonBenet was sexually abused. It might also indicate that Patsy Ramsey herself might have been abused earlier in childhood, and very likely sexual abuse."


"Conclusion: There are enough signals in the language to indicate that John Ramsey is involved in the murder of JonBenet. Patsy Ramsey is likely to have known of the sexual abuse".

:nono:

http://www.lsiscan.com/ramsey_s_t_v__interview.htm


http://www.lsiscan.com/ramsey_s_press_conference.htm

SHAWNA: THANK YOU FOR INFO(Valuable IMHO FWIW!): a compelling/interesting (believable) read...!!!~~~

WOW...IMHO totally believable & truthful FWIW! I'd bet money on it/this theory being the "TRUTH!"...(real happenings/scenario!)!:dontknow:

[Sabrina]

I received my copy of the book a few days ago. It IS excellent. Not only the ransom note analysis, but the technique of statement analysis. Anyone who investigatives matters which includes witness/suspect interviews -- possibly social workers too--would find it interesting.
http://www.statementanalysis.com/lying/

[Imon128]

Thanks, Sabrina. Now I know what to put on my Santa list....

[ajt400]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shawna
[B]
"Conclusion: There are enough signals in the language to indicate that [B]John Ramsey is involved in the murder of JonBenet. Patsy Ramsey is likely to have known of the sexual abuse".

Wait, I thought that PR killed her because of the incest? Or maybe it was because she was jealous? Or, wait wasn't it Burke while they were playing doctor? Maybe it was the butler in the pantry with the flashlight.

Sorry, I got caught up there for a minute.


Oh, and the correlation between "child" in a sentence and "love" mean that they child or speaker has been molested? So,if I say "I love my child?"

[Sabrina]

The author of "I Know You Are Lying" points out several examples of recent high profile statements including Marv Albert, Bill Cinton, Susan Smith, Timothy McVeigh, Joey Buttafuoco, Ray Caruth and the Ramseys.

This statement always bothered me. Now I know why.

Question: "John, would you recommend the death penalty for the person convicted of killing JonBenet?"
John Ramsey: "I would absolutely want the most severe penalty to be brought."
Question: "Patsy?"
Patsy Ramsey:" Nod."

And after reading the book,one can see how truly incompetent Lou Smit was as an interviewer, (although I knew this already) because he broke every rule in the book in "how to interview" with his interview of John as published in the NE book.

[Ivy]

Sabrina... do you think as I do that by saying, "I would absolutely want the most severe penalty to be brought" that John was trying too hard to be convincing, when he could have simply answered, "Yes"?

Patsy only nodded, which suggests to me she couldn't make herself answer "Yes" to the question.

[Sabrina]

Yep on Patsy.

John does NOT answer the question. This is a RED flag.

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by ajt400
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Shawna
[B]
"Conclusion: There are enough signals in the language to indicate that [B]John Ramsey is involved in the murder of JonBenet. Patsy Ramsey is likely to have known of the sexual abuse".

Wait, I thought that PR killed her because of the incest? Or maybe it was because she was jealous? Or, wait wasn't it Burke while they were playing doctor? Maybe it was the butler in the pantry with the flashlight.

Sorry, I got caught up there for a minute.


Oh, and the correlation between "child" in a sentence and "love" mean that they child or speaker has been molested? So,if I say "I love my child?"

OH ajt400...I know what it's like to be caught up there for a minute... hee hee LOL ... but remember the ole slogan:
"LET YOUR CONSCIOUS BE YOUR GUIDE"; can't remember where it originated from ... but IMHO it does seem to help/work in "thinking/thoughts" FWIW!

:dontknow:
MAYBE...???
http://www.raveny.com/dianemurray/page2.htm
Are you just being kind or am I being blind To a tune you deny, being foolish pride Let your conscious be your guide
Foolish Pride, Foolish Pride Feelings you deny
Foolish Pride, Foolish Pride Tears that never dry... It hurt me so when you deny My love for your bride instead of foolish ...

MAYBE THIS ONE/FYI:
:bigthumb: :)
http://www.cardsandsuch.com/Cards_and_Such/enter.html?target=Disney.html

Jiminy Crickett-Let Your Conscious Be Your Guide Disney $ 85.95
Disney
Pinocchio
Jiminy Crickett-Let Your Conscious Be Your Guide
Stock #1210986

[Blazeboy3]

Originally posted by Ivy
Sabrina... do you think as I do that by saying, "I would absolutely want the most severe penalty to be brought" that John was trying too hard to be convincing, when he could have simply answered, "Yes"?

Patsy only nodded, which suggests to me she couldn't make herself answer "Yes" to the question.

I'm not Sabrina...but I'll answer anyhoot FWIW: YES!!!

[Sabrina]

I just want to sayI just finished reading this book and it has some explosive things in it.

What is most impressive is the fact that the author takes statements from cases we are all familiar with--including Bill Clinton and Michael Jackson rather than presenting hypotheticals or ficticious statements and then analyzing them to prove his points.

Many statements from the Ramseys' early interviews and the DOI media blitz are analyzed. I always thought some of the Ramseys' statements were weird, NOW I KNOW WHY! The book sheds new light on interview techniques and interpreting statements as well.

It's interesting to see how the Ramseys' statements morphed from their first interview of April 1997 to the later ones. None of these interviews are included in the book since it was written well before the interviews were leaked. It's interesting to see what the author points out about the public interviews and then apply that to the police interviews from the NE book, especially the first interviews, and it's all still there....