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View Full Version : Is Raven a FLIGHT RISK?



Moxie
08-20-2005, 07:50 PM
Raven Abaroa, AKA Samuel Peters, has not yet been charged with the murder of his wife, Janet Christiansen Abaroa. But with recent revelations, it seems that, at the very least, things aren't looking good for Raven, specifically in the context of being innocent of killing his pregnant wife.

His silence speaks volumes.

I am concerned that Raven, if he feels he is about to be charged with the murder of his wife, would try to flee the United States. His brother Derek wrote online at his *myspace* account of how he and a friend traveled via Mexico to Cuba. Could that have been a trial run for Raven, just in case?

WS'ers, what do you think? Would Raven try and fly like a bird?

SouthEastSleuth
08-20-2005, 08:48 PM
Well now, most birds can surely fly...but down South, we have hunting seasons for various critters and varmints you know!

Let's see what the NC hunting season looks like for 2005/2006 -

Crow/Raven

Wednesday, Friday and Saturday of each week
between June 1, 2005, and Feb. 28, 2006 plus
Labor Day and Christmas Day



Pretty broad season to hunt those pesky crows and ravens it seems!

Hmmm. Now, how do we lure them in for the hunt I wonder.

Crows seem to like corn. What do ravens eat?

"Ravens eat rodents, insects, grain, fruit, bird eggs and refuse. They consume much carrion, especially in winter and will even prey upon sick and injured animals."

So, seems a raven will eat just about anything - from rats to trash to injured animals. Not too picky I guess.

Seems to me a raven is not so hard to hunt actually. And dang, I bet they have hunting seasons all over the US, and outside our borders too! Shoot, I bet if someone was after a particular raven even, with the right description, details, etc., that ol' raven would sooner or later find it's way back South - where it belongs!!

Moxie
08-20-2005, 09:14 PM
Well now, most birds can surely fly...but down South, we have hunting seasons for various critters and varmints you know!

Let's see what the NC hunting season looks like for 2005/2006 -

Crow/Raven

Wednesday, Friday and Saturday of each week
between June 1, 2005, and Feb. 28, 2006 plus
Labor Day and Christmas Day



Pretty broad season to hunt those pesky crows and ravens it seems!

Hmmm. Now, how do we lure them in for the hunt I wonder.

Crows seem to like corn. What do ravens eat?

"Ravens eat rodents, insects, grain, fruit, bird eggs and refuse. They consume much carrion, especially in winter and will even prey upon sick and injured animals."

So, seems a raven will eat just about anything - from rats to trash to injured animals. Not too picky I guess.

Seems to me a raven is not so hard to hunt actually. And dang, I bet they have hunting seasons all over the US, and outside our borders too! Shoot, I bet if someone was after a particular raven even, with the right description, details, etc., that ol' raven would sooner or later find it's way back South - where it belongs!!
Well, all kidding aside, he did hightail it out of North Carolina pretty quickly. There is nothing tying him to NC. But really, there is nothing tying him anywhere. He has no home, no money, no job. So, what is there to keep him in the US if he fears going to prison for the rest of his life?

SouthEastSleuth
08-20-2005, 09:14 PM
Raven Abaroa, AKA Samuel Peters, has not yet been charged with the murder of his wife, Janet Christiansen Abaroa. But with recent revelations, it seems that, at the very least, things aren't looking good for Raven, specifically in the context of being innocent of killing his pregnant wife.

His silence speaks volumes.

I am concerned that Raven, if he feels he is about to be charged with the murder of his wife, would try to flee the United States. His brother Derek wrote online at his *myspace* account of how he and a friend traveled via Mexico to Cuba. Could that have been a trial run for Raven, just in case?

WS'ers, what do you think? Would Raven try and fly like a bird?
Hmmmm. Ok, so much to say about this --

Let's start with being a fugitive, crossing state lines, crossing international borders, etc. Seems to me, and Lord knows I could be wrong, that once you start doing all those sorts of nasty maneuvers, you get quickly elevated to a whole new status - FEDERAL CRIME. Darn, guess that would mean that pesky ol' FBI would now enter the picture. And they are so relentless sometimes. They seem to have all sorts of sneaky ways to track down criminals!!

Now, this Cuba thing. My, my, talk about a hornet's nest of angst. Simply going to Cuba as a US citizen is banned, for the most part with some exceptions (scholarly type things mostly). Slipping in there as a fugitive? Geez. I mean first of all life in Cuba's a little different than life in the good ol' US of A! Unfortunately poverty is a huge issue for those poor folks. Jobs hard to come by. That nasty ol' Castro always looking over your shoulder. I'm thinking that some fugitive from the US might have a tough time down there!! Now sure, Cubans I think are HUGE soccer (futbal) fans!! So who knows, maybe there's a market for soccer gear or something.... But generally speaking? I dunno. Seems a bad choice somehow.

Now, that said. There's always our friendly neighbors to the North - Canada!! Ice Hockey. Maple Leaves. Winter Sports. Beautiful scenery. Nice places up there. Oh wait. Canada has extradition agreements with the US. Hmmmm. Maybe not a good thing for a fugitive on the run.

Mexico. Ok, again, Mexicans love some futbal. Ok, check.
Speaking Spanish. Probably a good thing to know. Not too terribly hard to learn.
Let's see. Ok, standards of living are generally a little different than the US, but hey, you take what you can get when you're on the run, right?
Extradition. Whoooa. Shoot. They extradite to the US as well.

Well, those are the choices relatively close to the US. Guess there are always planes to take a person anywhere they can afford to go. Now, that said, we have Homeland Security now... and those dudes seem to be all about lists, checking backgrounds, security, on and on and on. Somehow I bet if a person is tagged as a Federal fugitive, all sorts of bells, whistles, and alarms might go off when they try to leave the US!! JMO, of course....

A phrase just keeps whizzing thru my head -

"you can run, but you can't hide!"

terminatrixator
08-20-2005, 11:01 PM
My question is, wouldn't he be hard to spot if he grew a goatee, took a dip in a friends pool and suddenly had orange hair & goatee?

OriginalJerseyGirl
08-20-2005, 11:16 PM
While I wouldn't necessarily put it past him if he's in a certain "mood", I really don't believe that he would run if he believed that he was going to be arrested. I have absolutely nothing to base this on - I just don't think he'd run. He does have that precious angel to keep in mind when making his decisions, and I think that he does love Kaiden enough to realize that running is the worst thing that he could do at this point. JMO.

lauriej
08-21-2005, 05:43 AM
..having not yet been arrested, ( as far as we know right this minute) , raven then hasn't yet attained fugitive status, so what's to stop him from crossing borders , with kaiden, right now ?

...i can see him going back to utah..( check, he's done that ) where he can semi-relax with HIS family ( ie: not have to do the fake cry thing he was doing in virginia)run some plans/scenarios past his most trusted family/friends.......develop a plan ( especially now with LE reading his mail, he's gotta be sweating ) ......

...oh, stop by the bank, drain the trust fund account.........and try to quietly slip away into mexico, change his appearance, join a group/tribe of some sort, (after all he does claim to be part hispanic/part native american, he could easily hide out down there through ties of his mexican grandfather's.)......

...i would hope that LE has their eye on him NOW.........although i do believe that he does truly love kaiden, i also believe that his love for raven supercedes all else, yep, i vote that he is a flight risk........

SouthEastSleuth
08-21-2005, 07:35 AM
..having not yet been arrested, ( as far as we know right this minute) , raven then hasn't yet attained fugitive status, so what's to stop him from crossing borders , with kaiden, right now ?

...i can see him going back to utah..( check, he's done that ) where he can semi-relax with HIS family ( ie: not have to do the fake cry thing he was doing in virginia)run some plans/scenarios past his most trusted family/friends.......develop a plan ( especially now with LE reading his mail, he's gotta be sweating ) ......

...oh, stop by the bank, drain the trust fund account.........and try to quietly slip away into mexico, change his appearance, join a group/tribe of some sort, (after all he does claim to be part hispanic/part native american, he could easily hide out down there through ties of his mexican grandfather's.)......

...i would hope that LE has their eye on him NOW.........although i do believe that he does truly love kaiden, i also believe that his love for raven supercedes all else, yep, i vote that he is a flight risk........

Well, he would certainly be a fugitive, IF - he's accepted the embezzlement plea, and IF as part of that deal he will be "serving" probation. And again, I could be wrong, but, if you're serving a probation sentence, and fail to apprear to your probation officer as scheduled, etc., can't a warrant be issued for your arrest? Now, that said, it does seem that there is still another court date, presumably to wrap up everything with the embezzlement issue...but even with that in mind, taking off RIGHT NOW, without having settled the embezzlement charges, would seem to be a serious deal, but, I could be wrong.

Moxie
08-21-2005, 10:37 AM
Well, he would certainly be a fugitive, IF - he's accepted the embezzlement plea, and IF as part of that deal he will be "serving" probation. And again, I could be wrong, but, if you're serving a probation sentence, and fail to apprear to your probation officer as scheduled, etc., can't a warrant be issued for your arrest? Now, that said, it does seem that there is still another court date, presumably to wrap up everything with the embezzlement issue...but even with that in mind, taking off RIGHT NOW, without having settled the embezzlement charges, would seem to be a serious deal, but, I could be wrong.
To me it would prove he was guilty. For if he was innocent, why run?

juliagoulia
08-21-2005, 01:06 PM
Will his probation require him to live in NC? Or is that something he can do anywhere?

terminatrixator
08-21-2005, 01:12 PM
Since he has established residence in Utah, I'm believe he would be able to serve his probation in Utah.

juliagoulia
08-21-2005, 01:20 PM
Since he has established residence in Utah, I'm believe he would be able to serve his probation in Utah.
I think you're right. I was just researching http://www.doc.state.nc.us/ and all it said was that house arrest/electronic monitoring was not available out of state. I guess Utah will be home for awhile...provided he doesn't run.

lauriej
08-22-2005, 04:45 AM
Well, he would certainly be a fugitive, IF - he's accepted the embezzlement plea, and IF as part of that deal he will be "serving" probation. And again, I could be wrong, but, if you're serving a probation sentence, and fail to apprear to your probation officer as scheduled, etc., can't a warrant be issued for your arrest? Now, that said, it does seem that there is still another court date, presumably to wrap up everything with the embezzlement issue...but even with that in mind, taking off RIGHT NOW, without having settled the embezzlement charges, would seem to be a serious deal, but, I could be wrong.
...i see what you're saying ses......my thought was , since his final court date on the embezzlement is this coming friday, the 26th, would he now have a four day window of oppurtunity to skip the country? prior to his being placed on probation ?would his name cause any red flags at the border today if he tried to run ?
...i feel that ( if guilty ) he's probably fairly worried now that LE is going through their email ( esp. if he has knowledge of something they'll uncover ) and that he's looking to 'get out of dodge' while he can.....

ewwwinteresting
08-22-2005, 06:17 AM
To me it would prove he was guilty. For if he was innocent, why run?
I agree. I think if he is innocent, he wouldn't run and if he is guilty, he wouldn't run trying to prove he's innocent. Besides, I don't think the mommy apron strings are long enough to go into other countries.

golfmom
08-22-2005, 07:15 PM
I predict this Vulture will become a Jail Bird and have his wings clipped. He's not gonna fly the coop. :twocents:

Marstan
08-23-2005, 01:12 PM
In all reality, why would Raven flee? The only time Raven will check in with a probation officer in Utah will be to pay his restitution. He will not be watched like felons are because he has pled out to a misdemeanor rather than the felony charge. That is the problem with plea agreements they drop it so the state does not have to spend a lot of money monitoring their probationers. Yes he will sign a probation agreement, perhaps to not drink, no computer sales, and to pay restitution to the courts to reimburse the company he stole from.

Most states are broke and cannot afford to pay another state to watch their probationers - it sucks but it is the way it is done in most states for lessor charges.

Moxie
08-23-2005, 01:29 PM
I think that if he is guilty, and knows he is about to be charged, he will run.

juliagoulia
08-23-2005, 02:09 PM
In all reality, why would Raven flee? The only time Raven will check in with a probation officer in Utah will be to pay his restitution. He will not be watched like felons are because he has pled out to a misdemeanor rather than the felony charge. That is the problem with plea agreements they drop it so the state does not have to spend a lot of money monitoring their probationers. Yes he will sign a probation agreement, perhaps to not drink, no computer sales, and to pay restitution to the courts to reimburse the company he stole from.

Most states are broke and cannot afford to pay another state to watch their probationers - it sucks but it is the way it is done in most states for lessor charges.
If he takes off, it won't be because of felony embezzelment probation...but that he might be faced with a double murder charge.

Moxie
08-23-2005, 02:42 PM
If he takes off, it won't be because of felony embezzelment probation...but that he might be faced with a double murder charge.
I agree. He won't flee because of embezzlement. He will run if he gets charged with Janet's murder.

lauriej
08-23-2005, 03:24 PM
..that's what i was thinking as well..........that the embezzlement wouldn't cause him to run, since it was almost a done deal anyway, and now that he's accepted the plea he's no longer on the court docket for friday.

...however, with LE closing in..i would be afraid he'd run prior to being charged with murder, ( esp. if raven knows something big that we don't about what LE may find during the search of the email accounts..)

..he could buy a used car...load it up with some cash...head off into mexico......
..i'm sure LE has their eye on him, if he's a POI......

orale
08-23-2005, 04:22 PM
Heading off to Mexico would not be a very smart thing for Raven to do. Legal defenses and procedures available to him in the US are rarely available down there and the US (FBI) is pretty good about finding US fugitives hiding out south of the border and bringing them back to the US for justice. I'm sure the local authorities would make sure that a blond-haired gringo wanted in the US for murder be treated well (NOT). I wonder if he would survive the experience.




..that's what i was thinking as well..........that the embezzlement wouldn't cause him to run, since it was almost a done deal anyway, and now that he's accepted the plea he's no longer on the court docket for friday.

...however, with LE closing in..i would be afraid he'd run prior to being charged with murder, ( esp. if raven knows something big that we don't about what LE may find during the search of the email accounts..)

..he could buy a used car...load it up with some cash...head off into mexico......
..i'm sure LE has their eye on him, if he's a POI......

terminatrixator
08-23-2005, 08:58 PM
He's not blonde any longer, he went back to his natural hair color.

Question: Is it me or does he look like a Pudge Boy on TV? Check out the media clip.

Oh no, me again drawing comparisons to Horny B@stard. I wonder if he has a nickname for himself too.

Moxie
08-23-2005, 09:00 PM
He's not blonde any longer, he went back to his natural hair color.

Question: Is it me or does he look like a Pudge Boy on TV? Check out the media clip.

Oh no, me again drawing comparisons to Horny B@stard. I wonder if he has a nickname for himself too.
You are so funny - pudge boy! I noticed that too, that his hair was brown. Maybe the trust fund ran out of $$ and he couldn't afford the salon visits anymore?

terminatrixator
08-23-2005, 10:15 PM
I think if a warrant gets issued for the Arrest of Raven Abaroa, and he runs, they will have to do composites of him with orange hair & goatee, brown hair, or one with a baseball hat and black braids underneath to go with his "Indian Heritage" or bald one, because boy, I thought his hair was much thicker than that, guess the pressure is getting to him, he's got a huge receding hairline these days.:laugh:

Jess
08-23-2005, 10:29 PM
I think if a warrant gets issued for the Arrest of Raven Abaroa, and he runs, they will have to do composites of him with orange hair & goatee, brown hair, or one with a baseball hat and black braids underneath to go with his "Indian Heritage" or bald one, because boy, I thought his hair was much thicker than that, guess the pressure is getting to him, he's got a huge receding hairline these days.:laugh:
Hair loss is accelerated by stress --------or guilt !! He'll be counting the number of strands in his brush now.

L L & S
08-23-2005, 10:44 PM
Never lose hope Raven!

http://www.hairclub.com/google/?GTSE=GOOG&GTKW=hair%2Bclub (Hair%20Club%20for%20Men)

For more than 30 years, Hair Club has been a trusted solution for hundreds of thousands of men and woman with thinning hair and hair loss. Hair Club is the world's leading provider of all proven hair loss solutions, including: state-of-the art, non-surgical hair replacement; the gold standard in hair transplantation; and, hair therapy programs that incorporate FDA-approved hair re-growth agents.

L L & S
08-23-2005, 10:46 PM
He's not blonde any longer, he went back to his natural hair color.

Question: Is it me or does he look like a Pudge Boy on TV? Check out the media clip.

Oh no, me again drawing comparisons to Horny B@stard. I wonder if he has a nickname for himself too.
Wasn't it Chicken?

JustJax
08-23-2005, 10:58 PM
I think if a warrant gets issued for the Arrest of Raven Abaroa, and he runs, they will have to do composites of him with orange hair & goatee, brown hair, or one with a baseball hat and black braids underneath to go with his "Indian Heritage" or bald one, because boy, I thought his hair was much thicker than that, guess the pr to essure is getting to him, he's got a huge receding hairline these days.:laugh:Not only that but I swear I saw a nice bald spot on the back of his coconut when his back was to the camera...:eek:
IMO, I think the Bird thinks much too much of himself....Janet was much too beautiful for him....inside and out.:twocents:

LTUlegal
08-24-2005, 12:38 AM
Ya' know, you guys never cease to make me lmao! :clap:

:blowkiss: Love ya'll!

ewwwinteresting
08-24-2005, 04:24 AM
Not only that but I swear I saw a nice bald spot on the back of his coconut when his back was to the camera...:eek:
IMO, I think the Bird thinks much too much of himself....Janet was much too beautiful for him....inside and out.:twocents:I noticed that too. I was thinking, wow, he's young to be going bald. Well, now after volleyball, adventure racing and mountain biking, he can take up the sport of counting hair strands each night...of course, he may have to quit in 4 to 5 months due to no equipment left to play with!

I wonder, now that he's not waxing, if there is still a chance he could save any of those butt hairs for replacement procedures?

golfmom
08-24-2005, 07:07 AM
Oh no, me again drawing comparisons to Horny B@stard. I wonder if he has a nickname for himself too.


P. NESS

JustJax
08-24-2005, 09:20 AM
:laugh:

I wonder, now that he's not waxing, if there is still a chance he could save any of those butt hairs for replacement procedures? I swear EW, he looked like his head was going to pop right out of the top of his suit, he had his shirt collar and tie so tight! IMO, he looked like a deer in the headlights when speaking on camera...was swayed back as tho backing off from something stinky. Some lame-arse comments from him as well.

And oh, there is a camera in front of him, a chance to plead with the public,why not take the opportunity to say a famous OJ line....."now that this is behind me, I can look for my wife's killers." :doh:

Jenifred
08-24-2005, 04:48 PM
I think that there are probably two ways of looking at this. As I discussed this with my husband, if he were innocent and accused of a crime, he said that he'd run to avoid any punishment. Whereas I, knowing that I was innocent of the crime would go to my grave proclaiming my innocence, and I would willingly accept whatever consequences came my way (meaning I would go to jail because in my heart, I would know the truth).

What do other people think?

Moxie
08-24-2005, 05:04 PM
I think that there are probably two ways of looking at this. As I discussed this with my husband, if he were innocent and accused of a crime, he said that he'd run to avoid any punishment. Whereas I, knowing that I was innocent of the crime would go to my grave proclaiming my innocence, but I would willingly accept whatever consequences came my way (meaning I would go to jail because in my heart, I would know the truth).

What do other people think?
I would have faith in my innocence and stay put. And I wouldn't need to hide behind a defense attorney.

terminatrixator
08-24-2005, 06:49 PM
I would also have faith in my innocence, but proclaiming my innocence would take back seat to finding the murderer of my wife and my unborn child.

I would take a polygraph test, be damned the result, I would contact LE weekly, if not daily, I would do what it takes to get on every news station, I would hire a private investigator, I would come onto Websleuths and ask for help in solving the murder.

I would not go to a race, I would not have made a silly site the day before my wife's murder and NOT mention that I have a family, talking about myself in such a narcissistic manner. I would not be going to a salon, I would not be making stupid statements regarding my child to a reporter.

Then again, I wouldn't have 5 felony convictions on my record, because I would have never been a thief to begin with.

I know that I would not do anything that Raven has done up to this point, including quite possibly, being the murderer of my own spouse.

Justgimmethetruth
08-24-2005, 07:39 PM
You are a mean one, Terminator!!

terminatrixator
08-24-2005, 07:43 PM
He's not blonde any longer, he went back to his natural hair color.

Question: Is it me or does he look like a Pudge Boy on TV? Check out the media clip.

Oh no, me again drawing comparisons to Horny B@stard. I wonder if he has a nickname for himself too.
Woops my bad, I forgot P.Ness

Jess
08-24-2005, 08:08 PM
Woops my bad, I forgot P.Ness
OMG I'd read this earlier and I just got it now !!!!!:blushing:

golfmom
08-24-2005, 08:22 PM
OMG I'd read this earlier and I just got it now !!!!!:blushing:

I'll have to search around Steve's blogs and see if I can see if I can find the entry for that one for ya'll.

golfmom
08-24-2005, 08:25 PM
http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_abaroa_file.html

Scroll down to read the May 31, 2005 entry. Steve has a picture of the Jersey as well as his usual interesting observations.

terminatrixator
08-24-2005, 09:22 PM
God Love Steve, he rocks!

lauriej
09-06-2005, 01:53 AM
...............a flight risk ??

...he's out in utah.......
...amongst his "own" people...
...he coukd disappear in a moment within his 'family'...'tribes'...("Ina’maqki’u wi’dishi’anun
I have just enough Native American and Hispanic blood to claim myself as Lamanite. )( he could very well blend in in mexico)

...the autopsy report is NOT in his favour..
...i hate it that he has kaiden with him....
...yes..............i vote that he is definitely a flight risk.............

Jenifred
09-06-2005, 08:11 AM
...............a flight risk ??

...he's out in utah.......
...amongst his "own" people...
...he coukd disappear in a moment within his 'family'...'tribes'...("Ina’maqki’u wi’dishi’anun
I have just enough Native American and Hispanic blood to claim myself as Lamanite. )( he could very well blend in in mexico)

...the autopsy report is NOT in his favour..
...i hate it that he has kaiden with him....
...yes..............i vote that he is definitely a flight risk.............No, I don't think that he could blend in even in Mexico. He's more fair skinned--even if he dyed his hair black, he'd look out of place (didn't gm have information that he tried to once and had to rush to his hairdresser to have it fixed?).

Plus, favour? Ah, you Canadians! :D

ETA: Wouldn't he also have to know how to speak spanish?

Moxie
11-23-2005, 10:51 AM
Bump!

I still think Raven is a flight risk. If anyone knows of any information relating to Raven's ability or willingness to flee a potential arrest, please post it here. It can only help LE.

ewwwinteresting
11-23-2005, 10:44 PM
Bump!

I still think Raven is a flight risk. If anyone knows of any information relating to Raven's ability or willingness to flee a potential arrest, please post it here. It can only help LE.
Oh but Moxie....how can he collect that free money and benefits on the run??
I don't see raven as a flight risk because he is innocent, remember? :innocent: and I highly doubt he can stand to be alone with himself for any length of time!

terminatrixator
11-23-2005, 11:01 PM
Bump!

I still think Raven is a flight risk. If anyone knows of any information relating to Raven's ability or willingness to flee a potential arrest, please post it here. It can only help LE. If Raven runs, he will be caught and it will only make it worse for him and his family. It will show his guilt, which will be proven in a court of law anyhow.

Also, if he is helped in any way, by friends or family members, there are laws of Accessory after the fact:

ACCESSORY AFTER THE FACT - Whoever, knowing that an offense has been committed, receives, relieves, comforts or assists the offender in order to hinder or prevent his apprehension, trial or punishment, is an accessory after the fact; one who knowing a felony to have been committed by another, receives, relieves, comforts, or assists the felon in order to hinder the felon's apprehension, trial, or punishment. U.S.C. 18

Also aiding and abetting a murderer after the fact

http://criminal.findlaw.com/crimes/a-z/aiding_abetting_accessory.html

Also check this out:

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2005/06/18/news/californian/murrieta/61705202832.txt

Bails stays at $500,000 for sister of man wanted for murder
http://www.nctimes.com/art/spacer.gif

By: JOHN HALL - Staff Writer

FRENCH VALLEY ---- Saying he believes she poses a danger to the community, a judge ruled Friday that bail will stay at $500,000 for the sister of a man wanted for killing a soldier on leave in Murrieta.

Patricia Pena Urrea, 24, of Hemet, is charged with being an accessory to murder for reportedly helping her younger brother escape arrest, prosecutors say.

snipped

Moxie
11-28-2005, 04:34 PM
Bump

I think Raven is a flight risk, and ask those who live close to him to keep an eye out. I believe that if Raven feels the heat is on, and he is guilty, he will run.

If he is innocent, then he is cooperating fully with LE and there would be no reason for him to be nervous.

Jenifred
11-28-2005, 05:56 PM
Moxie--
Do you really think that Raven could leave all of his possessions behind? This is a huge sticking point for me. How could the man who's done everything in his power to get big, bright, new things just leave them all behind? Especially Kaiden--although Kaiden might have become more of a liability at this point. And wouldn't Raven's running be a hurdle for Karyn (aka Mommie Dearest) to get custody? Does she even want custody?

IMO, I just don't see Raven as the kind of person to be able to pick up, leave everything behind, and start all over. Could you see his metrosexual needs going unmet? I just couldn't.

Moxie
11-28-2005, 07:15 PM
Moxie--
Do you really think that Raven could leave all of his possessions behind? This is a huge sticking point for me. How could the man who's done everything in his power to get big, bright, new things just leave them all behind? Especially Kaiden--although Kaiden might have become more of a liability at this point. And wouldn't Raven's running be a hurdle for Karyn (aka Mommie Dearest) to get custody? Does she even want custody?

IMO, I just don't see Raven as the kind of person to be able to pick up, leave everything behind, and start all over. Could you see his metrosexual needs going unmet? I just couldn't.
I agree it is hard to get hair highlights and a back-wax while on the run from the law; however, it is equally hard to do so behind bars. So, in my opinion, if Raven is guilty, he will run if he thinks LE is ready to arrest him. To him it would be the lesser of two evils. No pun intended.

juliagoulia
11-28-2005, 07:39 PM
I agree with Moxie. Raven does love his various toys, but he, himself, is his most prized possession. I have always felt nervous that Raven will run. He is very charming and egotistical. Probably feels he can quickly tap into and start draining resources wherever he goes. Please, LE, keep tabs on him!

Jess
11-28-2005, 08:17 PM
Do any of you think Raven is smart enough to get the timing down just right ? He can't leave too early, but how would he know if LE was planning on arresting him ? who would tip him off-- cause he certainly would need some prior knowledge to get away from LE-- but not so early so that his family and friends would think he actually has run away.You know what I mean ?

Nah, I think he has become cocky cause he thinks he has gotten away with it. He'll stay where he is cause he knows that after 7 months, he's home free ( pun intended :D) NOT!

juliagoulia
11-28-2005, 08:35 PM
That is a good point. If he had prior knowledge of an impending arrest, I think he would run without hesitation. If he ran now, that would indicate guilt...and perhaps his ego wouldn't allow it.

terminatrixator
11-28-2005, 08:46 PM
If he does run, he can't hide. His metrosexual ways will give him away, and huntin' for a murderer is something that LE would definitely do. He'll be caught, he will be put in jail, he will have a trial, he will be found guilty for running and for first degree murder and then the doors will lock behind him.

Women and baby killers don't fair well in jail, but Raven would not fair well on the run, he would be caught and then he would no chance at trial.

If he's the murderer of his wife and his unborn child, which I do indeed believe, I think the pansy will run.

snapple
11-28-2005, 11:42 PM
Does anyone watch "Prison Break"? Every time I see that show I think of raven in prison, him being a pretty boy and all, I foresee him holding someones pocket.

If raven is at all familiar with the on goings of prison, I believe he would try to run.

L L & S
11-29-2005, 07:15 AM
If this rumor about Raven NOT contacting LE this whole time is true... then I absolutely think he may be a flight risk. He's not smart enough to pull it off alone... someone needs to be keeping their eye on Karyn. She has a ton of those really neat Jackie Peterson qualities about her. Wonder if she's given the RAV the deny deny deny speach yet? Wonder if he's contacted any of his wacko siblings looking for a place to lay low? Do you think he'll bleach his hair that lovely shade of orange that V72100 ended up with? Maybe he'll bonk his head on the van on his way to prison too... now that would be fun to see.

Moxie
11-29-2005, 09:06 AM
I agree that he will run, but the points about the timing are good. Since we don't know what LE is doing, and supposedly Raven isn't contacting them either, he wouldn't know himself. So if he were to run just on a feeling or a fear that he was going to be arrested, that would definitely tip his cards!!

Nice little corner he's backed himself into by not contacting or working with LE, huh? He has no idea what is going on!!

Jess
11-29-2005, 10:44 AM
Exactly, Moxie !!! what does he do ? keep a fully packed and loaded bike at the back door so he can scoot off when LE comes to the front door ? Does he keep one of his vehicles ( I no longer know how many he has out there ) hidden and packed with survival gear so he can take off for the hills ?

He is backed into a corner and I personally cannot see how he could escape other than leaving now and trying to disappear. But oh wait, wouldn't that signal to all his family and the friends he has left that he is running from the law ? Maybe he would just be trying to cope with his grief and will phone LE regularly to see what is new in the case.

Moxie
11-29-2005, 11:48 AM
Exactly, Moxie !!! what does he do ? keep a fully packed and loaded bike at the back door so he can scoot off when LE comes to the front door ? Does he keep one of his vehicles ( I no longer know how many he has out there ) hidden and packed with survival gear so he can take off for the hills ?

He is backed into a corner and I personally cannot see how he could escape other than leaving now and trying to disappear. But oh wait, wouldn't that signal to all his family and the friends he has left that he is running from the law ? Maybe he would just be trying to cope with his grief and will phone LE regularly to see what is new in the case.
That is a good point! But... we should keep an eye on his family. I wouldn't put it past his mom and siblings to try to help him flee should he feel the need.

Moxie
11-30-2005, 02:57 PM
Am hearing some rumors from our dear bird that he and/or his family are beginning to tell people (evidently not Mormon) that Raven is getting ready to go on a mission. Another mission, mind you. Not the original one he said he went on. Now... This is all fine and good except:

In the Mormon church, you cannot go on a mission if you have a child

So... why would Raven be telling people he was getting ready to go on a mission?

To explain an absence? Where would he be going? Running even? Away from what?

Because we know he is not going to be on a mission for the LDS church.

OriginalJerseyGirl
11-30-2005, 03:04 PM
Are you kidding? Even if it was possible, what about Kaiden????

If this rumor is true, this is BIG, BIG news. And maybe LE should hear about it.

Moxie
11-30-2005, 03:06 PM
Are you kidding? Even if it was possible, what about Kaiden????

If this rumor is true, this is BIG, BIG news. And maybe LE should hear about it.
I agree!

Jenifred
11-30-2005, 06:30 PM
Alright Moxie--if he's doing this, I've just joined the "he's going to run" camp.

Seriously, how stupid do the Abaroas believe that non-mormons can be--he's getting ready to serve another mission even though he's already got a kid? HELLO!! IS THIS THING ON??

Something's got to be done quickly about this bird--he needs his feathers clipped.

juliagoulia
11-30-2005, 08:09 PM
I've checked with the LDS Church Educational System. The only type of mission you can serve after you have married and had children is as an older married COUPLE. There is no missionary program for single fathers. There is not even a mission where he could be a volunteer. Nothing is more important to the LDS church than the FAMILY. They would not accept a volunteer, single parent missionary because that would take time away from his most important responsibility--KAIDEN.

This is crazy...and if it is even slightly true, I hope LE is nearby.

ewwwinteresting
11-30-2005, 10:50 PM
Can you get kicked out of the mormon church? And if you can, wouldn't cheating on your wife and committing felonies (not misdemeanors) be cause to be kicked out? or at the very least, not protecting and/or supporting a felon?

Jenifred
12-01-2005, 09:27 AM
Can you get kicked out of the mormon church? And if you can, wouldn't cheating on your wife and committing felonies (not misdemeanors) be cause to be kicked out? or at the very least, not protecting and/or supporting a felon?
You can get excommunicated from the Mormon church. But first you have to confess your sins to the proper church authority. So, Raven would have to go tell his bishop that he had multiple affairs, he stole money from his former employer, lied on various occasions to church authorities, if he's been drinking, etc. Then this starts off a chain of events, none of which I'm that familiar with (maybe NCBanker could explain--if people really want to know) or that I would feel comfortable explaining about (because I can't explain it right).

But the key here is that Raven would have to go to the bishop and tell him face to face what he had done--everything, no skimping on the truth (if he were truly repentant). And I don't see Raven ever wanting to admit that he's done something wrong. So, Raven can act as spiritual as he wants, but if he were really sorry for the obvious things he's done--lying, stealing, cheating--he'd go to his bishop, like a real man would, and let it all out.

But Raven's demonstrated that he can't be a real man, but would rather be a lying sack of trash and pretend to be all the things that he's not. He'll get his in the end.

juliagoulia
12-01-2005, 12:56 PM
If the Bishop or Stake President were aware of the various affairs (i.e. Janet or someone else involved approaches them), they could convene a church court and invite him to be part of it. It is always best that the offender confesses on their own, but it doesn't have to work that way. If you have taken your temple covenants (and I think he had), and THEN have affairs, that is very serious and usually results in excommunication. The stealing may lead to being disfellowshipped (you're still a member but cannot participate in certain church activities), but I doubt that would lead to excommunication.

In both cases--excommunication and disfellowshipment--it is possible to come back to full standing in the church. But it is a very humbling, difficult process. I somehow don't think Raven has the character to do it.

ewwwinteresting
12-02-2005, 01:21 AM
If the Bishop or Stake President were aware of the various affairs (i.e. Janet or someone else involved approaches them), they could convene a church court and invite him to be part of it. It is always best that the offender confesses on their own, but it doesn't have to work that way. If you have taken your temple covenants (and I think he had), and THEN have affairs, that is very serious and usually results in excommunication. The stealing may lead to being disfellowshipped (you're still a member but cannot participate in certain church activities), but I doubt that would lead to excommunication.

In both cases--excommunication and disfellowshipment--it is possible to come back to full standing in the church. But it is a very humbling, difficult process. I somehow don't think Raven has the character to do it.
This is actually interesting to me. From what you say, if you have affairs you get excommunicated but affairs aren't against the law. If you embezzle, you probably don't get excommunicated, but it's against the law and you are a felon with few rights. That seems weird. If you have to admit what you did wrong to a Bishop, you're right, I doubt raven would admit to anything that doesn't make him look good. And the person that could tell the Bishop about raven has been murdered....seems convenient. I wonder if this is a possible motive to raven. If he thought Janet was talking (maybe to the home teachers that night) and he thought he would be kicked out of his church....hmmmm!:waitasec:

terminatrixator
12-02-2005, 07:37 AM
This is actually interesting to me. From what you say, if you have affairs you get excommunicated but affairs aren't against the law. If you embezzle, you probably don't get excommunicated, but it's against the law and you are a felon with few rights. That seems weird. If you have to admit what you did wrong to a Bishop, you're right, I doubt raven would admit to anything that doesn't make him look good. And the person that could tell the Bishop about raven has been murdered....seems convenient. I wonder if this is a possible motive to raven. If he thought Janet was talking (maybe to the home teachers that night) and he thought he would be kicked out of his church....hmmmm!:waitasec:
Not sure if The Raven would worry so much about the hometeachers knowing, because he could fast talk himself out of that, or I bet he could try to figure out a way to handle that.

An ex-communication would bug him, but not because of being kicked out of the Church, but the loss of any cash-flow or help he was receiving from the Church, would uspet The Raven.

Top it off with knowing he will have less money to play with after finding out Janet was pregnant, then in The Raven's twisted mind, along with knowing he was up on embezzlement charges and trying to find ways to get out of that, along with if he was again in the cheating mood, along with any insurance on Janet.....my head is spinning thinking about all the possibilities that are out there that we don't know yet.

OriginalJerseyGirl
12-02-2005, 10:43 AM
An ex-communication would bug him, but not because of being kicked out of the Church, but the loss of any cash-flow or help he was receiving from the Church, would uspet The Raven.

Top it off with knowing he will have less money to play with after finding out Janet was pregnant, then in The Raven's twisted mind, along with knowing he was up on embezzlement charges and trying to find ways to get out of that, along with if he was again in the cheating mood, along with any insurance on Janet.....my head is spinning thinking about all the possibilities that are out there that we don't know yet.
Add to that the possibility that there's someone specific he's been looking for on all of these reunion websites of his. :rolleyes:

Eww, you brought up a very interesting idea - was Raven concerned with how the church might view him? Would that be enough of a motive if Janet was threatening (for lack of a better word) to go to the Bishop. This really intrigues me especially given Raven's new found "spirituality". Perhaps he was even trying to get further into the Church, and Janet, knowing about all of his "issues", made him feel like he was a hypocrite. I don't even mean that Janet did or would do that on purpose. But maybe all of Raven's indiscretions were coming up in conversations regarding Raven and his home schooling, etc., and like we said a long time ago, Raven couldn't fool himself into thinking that he was "worthy" as long as Janet was around.

Anyway, I know it seems far-fetched to think that someone would murder his wife so that others that he knows much less intimately wouldn't think badly of him. But think about it - we've ALL surely seen this kind of thing in motion. How many of us have witnessed a family member lash out at us because they're in a bad mood due to something that happened with someone else? How many of us have had a loved one treat us badly and then "put on a happy face" when someone else comes along. I think that this has happened to everyone, and although it's not nearly as severe as murder, I think that they are manifestations of the same behavior. In a manic mind, that natural tendency might become twisted into something much more severe.

lauriej
01-11-2006, 02:52 AM
wow............i seem to have missed this entire page on this topic.............

.......each and every one of you ( julia, jersey, trix, eww, jenn etc...) bring SUCH a prospective to this thread.........

..i had no idea as to the ramifications raven was facing ----being excomminicated from the church! having to 'fess up" ! ( to his bishop no less----------------as IF raven would EVER!)

..i had janet---the new baby---his lifestyle---$$$$'s etc down as possible motives-------------but THIS---------and raven being the 'momma's boy/baby' that he is, only adds to motive------------i can see him faking out family and friends, but NOT wanting to take on the church and bishop -----he's so all about "saving face"------raven's ( primarily ).

..does anyone know if raven has been attending ( regularly or not ) church / church activities while in utah ?

terminatrixator
01-11-2006, 08:23 AM
I heard he was going to Church regularly. Gotta get him some religion and look good in his community.

He must think Church is really going to cure him, look at BTK.

SouthEastSleuth
01-13-2006, 10:35 AM
I may certainly be in the minority in this opinion – but I say, LET HIM RUN.

If Raven took off today, then it says one thing very clearly – he’s running because of guilt, pure and simple.

So what could cause him to take off?

1) LE officially names him a POI

2) He gets wind of an impending arrest.

At this point Raven seems to be living life to the fullest – working (a little), childcare taken care of, dating again, having recreational fun, taking trips at will…basically moving on with his life with very few, if any, concerns, etc. Does he even wonder about the case anymore? Does he have sleepless nights, wondering what LE is up to, if we will in fact be arrested? Does he go to sleep each night, thinking, "I did it, I’ve gotten away with it…"? Does he squirm a little when he hears a siren, sees a police car in his neighborhood or in his rearview mirror? Or, does he simply not care anymore, one way or another?

So what would happen if LE named Raven a POI?

Pressure. If nothing else, Raven would officially know that the case is still being investigated, and with a primary focus: Raven. Sure, he knows from these boards, etc., that many, if not most people think he’s the perpetrator. But, for him to be PUBLICLY named as a POI, BY DURHAM POLICE, that’s a whole different ballgame. Gloves would be off as far as any possible media involvement; it would certainly send a message to any others possibly in harm’s way; Raven would clearly know, officially and publicly that LE is looking at him, and hard; and perhaps most importantly, it may encourage someone to come forward who might have information about Raven, the murder, etc….

So how would he react? Several scenarios come to mind –

- Do nothing. Carry on his routine, just as before, and basically shrug off any suggestions of his guilt, regardless of his being named THE official suspect.

- Come out fighting. Attacking LE, calling his lawyer, demanding investigations, etc. Basically, start screaming his innocence and hounding LE to look harder into the case. (Interestingly enough, the same scenario one would have expected an INNOCENT person to be doing from day one.)

- Run. And this, to me anyway, would frankly be ideal. Running accomplishes one thing right away - practically admitting guilt, otherwise, why run? Now sure, if Raven takes off, that’s a different set of complications, to be sure. But so what? Months have passed at this point. Even if it took many more months to track him down, extradite him, what have you, is that really all that big of a deal? I mean the end result is – ultimately he would be in custody, sooner or later. Would it be that difficult to track him down? Who knows. Someone like Raven seems to like his comforts, and one would think that life on the run would certainly lack in comforts and ease of living. And, is it possible for an APB, of sorts anyway, to be issued in a case like this when someone is wanting for questioning and has taken off? My guess is, it would, at minimum, certainly be a probation violation, which could then be used to issue a warrant. And sure, there’s the possibility of Raven leaving the country. But again, it would just seem a matter to time, even then, before he’s caught. I could certainly be wrong, but I just find it hard to imagine Raven living a life on the run – he barely works now, so finding some menial job with which to support himself just seems so unlikely….his Mom could certainly assist, financially and otherwise, but wouldn’t that be risky on her part, especially if LE starting watching HER, her movements, activities, etc?

I don’t know. It would certainly complicate things on some levels, but I still think Raven running would not be the end of the story – in some ways, it might even provide the break needed to ultimately arrest him.

IF Raven is indeed the only POI for LE – then why not say that? What’s to lose? Tighten the screws – let him feel some pressure – let him read:

"Durham Police today named Raven Abaroa as a Person of Interest in the April murder of his wife, Janet….."

Then the Bird has choices to make – sit on his perch quietly, squawk as loudly as he can, or test his wings and fly.

Moxie
01-13-2006, 03:03 PM
I may certainly be in the minority in this opinion – but I say, LET HIM RUN.

If Raven took off today, then it says one thing very clearly – he’s running because of guilt, pure and simple.

So what could cause him to take off?

1) LE officially names him a POI

2) He gets wind of an impending arrest.

At this point Raven seems to be living life to the fullest – working (a little), childcare taken care of, dating again, having recreational fun, taking trips at will…basically moving on with his life with very few, if any, concerns, etc. Does he even wonder about the case anymore? Does he have sleepless nights, wondering what LE is up to, if we will in fact be arrested? Does he go to sleep each night, thinking, "I did it, I’ve gotten away with it…"? Does he squirm a little when he hears a siren, sees a police car in his neighborhood or in his rearview mirror? Or, does he simply not care anymore, one way or another?

So what would happen if LE named Raven a POI?

Pressure. If nothing else, Raven would officially know that the case is still being investigated, and with a primary focus: Raven. Sure, he knows from these boards, etc., that many, if not most people think he’s the perpetrator. But, for him to be PUBLICLY named as a POI, BY DURHAM POLICE, that’s a whole different ballgame. Gloves would be off as far as any possible media involvement; it would certainly send a message to any others possibly in harm’s way; Raven would clearly know, officially and publicly that LE is looking at him, and hard; and perhaps most importantly, it may encourage someone to come forward who might have information about Raven, the murder, etc….

So how would he react? Several scenarios come to mind –

- Do nothing. Carry on his routine, just as before, and basically shrug off any suggestions of his guilt, regardless of his being named THE official suspect.

- Come out fighting. Attacking LE, calling his lawyer, demanding investigations, etc. Basically, start screaming his innocence and hounding LE to look harder into the case. (Interestingly enough, the same scenario one would have expected an INNOCENT person to be doing from day one.)

- Run. And this, to me anyway, would frankly be ideal. Running accomplishes one thing right away - practically admitting guilt, otherwise, why run? Now sure, if Raven takes off, that’s a different set of complications, to be sure. But so what? Months have passed at this point. Even if it took many more months to track him down, extradite him, what have you, is that really all that big of a deal? I mean the end result is – ultimately he would be in custody, sooner or later. Would it be that difficult to track him down? Who knows. Someone like Raven seems to like his comforts, and one would think that life on the run would certainly lack in comforts and ease of living. And, is it possible for an APB, of sorts anyway, to be issued in a case like this when someone is wanting for questioning and has taken off? My guess is, it would, at minimum, certainly be a probation violation, which could then be used to issue a warrant. And sure, there’s the possibility of Raven leaving the country. But again, it would just seem a matter to time, even then, before he’s caught. I could certainly be wrong, but I just find it hard to imagine Raven living a life on the run – he barely works now, so finding some menial job with which to support himself just seems so unlikely….his Mom could certainly assist, financially and otherwise, but wouldn’t that be risky on her part, especially if LE starting watching HER, her movements, activities, etc?

I don’t know. It would certainly complicate things on some levels, but I still think Raven running would not be the end of the story – in some ways, it might even provide the break needed to ultimately arrest him.

IF Raven is indeed the only POI for LE – then why not say that? What’s to lose? Tighten the screws – let him feel some pressure – let him read:

"Durham Police today named Raven Abaroa as a Person of Interest in the April murder of his wife, Janet….."

Then the Bird has choices to make – sit on his perch quietly, squawk as loudly as he can, or test his wings and fly.
SES,

I truly don't think he cares. I believe he feels he has gotten away with it. He won't run. He has no need to. No pressure on him. He is happy. He got what he wanted - no wife and no responsibilities.

Moxie

terminatrixator
01-13-2006, 07:38 PM
For some odd reason I think if Raven was publicly named POI or Suspect, nothing would change. He would still go out, still date, still lie and deny. I think he'd shrug it off. I don't think he has restless nights, days or in between. I think Raven lives in his own world, with no cares.

He may get ticked if someone cuts him off when he's driving, or if someone puts a shopping cart too close to his car (that would probably be me by the way ha) or if his Social Security Check doesn't come on time, but with his personality, I don't think it would bug him one way or the other, unless a camera was in his face and he realized he looks BLOATED and BALD on TV.

I hope something breaks soon though, but I am not going anywhere, Dream Police they live inside of my head.....

juliagoulia
01-13-2006, 08:52 PM
Part of me thinks he may even enjoy the publicity of being named a POI. It might get him a few more sympathetic looks from his friends and new girlfriend. From what we know of his mother, she would jump at the chance to be on TV and spout her son's innocence to the world "The poor thing is just being persecuted!" :sick:

ewwwinteresting
01-14-2006, 06:22 AM
IF Raven is indeed the only POI for LE – then why not say that? What’s to lose? Tighten the screws – let him feel some pressure – let him read:

"Durham Police today named Raven Abaroa as a Person of Interest in the April murder of his wife, Janet….."
:clap: :clap:

momx3
01-15-2006, 04:01 PM
I heard that Raven is out apartment shopping. Looks like he won't be living with mommy for to much longer.

terminatrixator
01-15-2006, 04:45 PM
Guess Social Security and Government aid along with his 2 day a week bike-shop boy job s doing well for The Raven. I'm sure he'll get an apartment, tell his friends it's a condo that he owns. You know he has to be "larger than life" but he only looks that way on TV.:eek:


He obviously needs a bachelor pad to take his women, monogomy is not one Raven's strong suits.

Jenifred
01-16-2006, 12:07 AM
I'm sure Raven won't be paying for the apartment either. Section 8 is available and he can pay nearly nothing for his apartment.

Anyone know if Kaiden will be living with him?

lauriej
01-17-2006, 03:49 AM
Part of me thinks he may even enjoy the publicity of being named a POI. It might get him a few more sympathetic looks from his friends and new girlfriend. From what we know of his mother, she would jump at the chance to be on TV and spout her son's innocence to the world "The poor thing is just being persecuted!" :sick:
..perhaps raven's mom will become email buddies with jackie p. during raven's TRIAL, and they can trade delusions with one another..........

..if raven IS thinking that he's gotten away with anything b/c he's not YET been named a POI.............news flash..........neither has anyone else............

..eenie meenie ............who do you think LE has their sights on ? oh right--------------the one and only---------the 'ever-so-balding-one'........( and i'm not talking about the eagle.)

.."be afraid raven--------------be very afraid-------------they're comin' to get you......"
..oh..............and have a nice day.

LTUlegal
01-21-2006, 12:52 AM
I'm afraid if they do name him a p.o.i. he will flee. I don't even know where l.e. is at on this, but as it was stated, no one else has been named. There really can be no one else who's done this.

I fear for Kaiden and wish that raven would just give him to Janet's family. They'll love him unconditionally and take care of him the way he should be, I have no doubt.

ewwwinteresting
01-21-2006, 01:51 AM
:laugh:
..perhaps raven's mom will become email buddies with jackie p. during raven's TRIAL, and they can trade delusions with one another..........

..if raven IS thinking that he's gotten away with anything b/c he's not YET been named a POI.............news flash..........neither has anyone else............
Sooo true lj. Nobody has been named a POI and raven doesn't seem to care whether anyone is named or not. I guess he thinks as long as he's not arrested, who really cares who killed Janet and why?

ewwwinteresting
01-21-2006, 01:53 AM
I heard that Raven is out apartment shopping. Looks like he won't be living with mommy for to much longer.
Any news on this mom? Is raven looking to stay in Utah?

OriginalJerseyGirl
01-23-2006, 09:58 AM
Frankly, I'm very surprised that Raven is looking for his own place. I thought for sure that once we posted information about the stages of mourning, the chameleon that he is would at least try to pretend that he was mourning appropriately. Getting yourself a girlfriend in time for your first Christmas without your spouse is not mourning appropriately, IMO.

Janet's been gone 9 months now, and Raven's already actively dating and looking for his own place? It just doesn't fit. But what did I really expect from a guy who was playing in volleyball tournaments mere weeks after his wife's brutal murder. Maybe that's how he shows his extreme relief, gratitude, disbelief ... whatever you'd call it ... that at least he was fortunate that his son was spared. If I were to lose one of my family members this way, I don't think I'd ever let go of the ones with whom I was given a second chance. I sure as hell wouldn't push them off on someone else while I went on Halloween bikefests and the like.