Does anybody feel Raven is not guilty?

[ewwwinteresting]

I know that the majority of those posting on this thread believe raven is guilty (as you can tell by the poll), but I am thinking that there are some individuals out there that believe he is not guilty.

I mean would raven really murder his pregnant wife? It has been stated that he is a good father to Kaiden, which would make me think he would be ok with having another child.

I would think that if there are family/friends/strangers out there that think raven is innocent, they would want to defend him. We could be missing many facts of this case, since most of what we have is circumstancial evidence. It would be interesting to see how many people actually believe raven is innocent and how many people actually know raven is innocent.

[mysteriew]

Some days I am sure of his guilt, but some days I wonder. Mostly I wonder because I don't know what evidence LE has.

Has LE found the murder weapon, is one of my big questions. Did Raven's clothing show any signs of blood. What was found when LE interviewed the soccer buddies. Was a DNA match run on the fetus and what did it show. What was going on with the coworker and what made her assume that the murder LE was investigating might be Janet. What was in the emails, and where are the computers. (to me if they are missing, that is more telling than anything). What was the pawn shop ticket for.

I do see opportunity, motive, questionable behaviors and possible non-cooperation/minimal cooperation with LE. He not only lawyered up, but he physically moved out of state.

And I still have questions about why the family is so quiet.

[Bobbisangel]

I go back and forth too. Finding out that Janet was pregnant moves me closer to the guilty side. The pregnancy along with a 6 month baby... Raven in trouble with the law and probably headed for jail and their financial situation which didn't look like it was going to improve any time soon. They were living way beyond their means...probably thanks to Raven.

I want to know about that soccer game. Was he there...what time did he get there...was he there the whole time...what time did he leave to head home?
To me the whole thing hinges on that soccer game. If someone with integrity can swear that Raven arrived at such and such a time and was there the whole time...if he has a solid alibi then I would have to believe he didn't do it.
I've never read if his alibi checked out or not though. Does anyone know anything about his alibi checking out or not?

[Moxie]

Hi Ewww,

I wish I believed Raven was innocent. I really do. To think that he murdered his wife and the mother of his child is almost incomprehensible. And he is such a charmer when he wants to be, that when you are around him, it's hard to believe such a charasmatic person could sink to such depths.

However, over time, I have come to the thought that he did murder Janet. The motive was there - money troubles, already one separation, another baby on the way, embezzlement charges, inability to control his spending, bi-polar disorder, being fired from his job. It's all there. Then many comments about his temper, his adultery.

The only thing that is missing for me is knowledge of a life insurance policy. If there was a life insurance policy, and if he did try to collect on it after Janet's death, and I don't mean now, but right after her death, I don't know that anyone could think him innocent of murder - to me that would confirm the motive.

[golfmom]

Moxie, right now I have two pet peeves. The possibility of Life Insurance and the computer activity. Both possibilities are pointing strongly to premeditation. You would think that the pregnancy would ring the bell on premed for me, but no, that's not what's pushing my buttons today.

LIFE INSURANCE and COMPUTER ACTIVITY.

[newkid]

I haven't decided. I really hope a husband and father would not do something so horrible to his wife. All statistics point to his guilt, but I want more information before making a decision.

[JerseyGirl]

I think that we've probably solved this case a dozen times here; it'll be interesting to someday see how the facts line up with our theories over the months.

Some of the information we've dug up has been really hard in giving Raven the benefit of the doubt. Yet I still go back and forth on whether or not he is guilty.

For anyone that believes that Raven is innocent, can you give us some theories or facts that we can start throwing around to come up with other possibilities?

[Jenifred]

I would really like to think that Raven is innocent. That all of this evidence is just making him look guilty when in reality he is the true victim in this horrible situation.

BUT (what's my big butt, er but?)

It's had to believe that he is innocent when all of this evidence points to him, when there's so many factors that might have lead to a breaking point, and when there seems to be such a lack of effort on his part to be looking for the murderer. Sad, but my opinion.

[golfmom]

Even OJ has spent more time searching for his former wife's murderer than Raven has.

Where's the media appeal?
Where's the memorial? (not counting begging for money)
Where's a reward?
Where's a private investigator?

[Moxie]

I think one on one, or in person, Raven could charm or manipulate almost anyone. Seriously.

However, should he be charged with murder, he will be in a courtroom, represented by an attorney, who will do most of the speaking for him. And it would be hard to charm a jury in the context of a murder trial. It could happen, but it would be tough. Defense attorneys typically do not put their clients on the stand. But it would be beyond interesting to hear Raven's testimony in a court trial.

[terminatrixator]

Now, just waiting for the orange hair & goatee,
Him heading to a retreat to deal with his grief,
Him having flirtini's with a babysitter,
and are we sure Raven doesn't golffish too?

[golfmom]

Now, just waiting for the orange hair & goatee,
Him heading to a retreat to deal with his grief,
Him having flirtini's with a babysitter,
and are we sure Raven doesn't golffish too?

I swear we could put that to music . . .

he might not golfish, but he's got his volleyball, mountain bikes, vx'ers, and plenty of recreational crap.

Funny, he's just soooooo grief stricken.

[terminatrixator]

Another comparison of the The Prisoner and Raven, both are Salesmen, salesmen can sell anything, anyone, they lie when there is absolutely no reason to lie, when the truth is just as easy and won't even get them in trouble.

I see lots of comparisons between the two and maybe because I followed SP trial so closely, I keep coming back to the two, except for the use of the media. However, the media was involved so deeply because of the day Laci disappeared, and the fact that the family was extremely vocal and Laci was missing.

I think perhaps someone took some lessons of what not to do when committing murder, and yet, there is still so many ways to compare the situation and make you go, hmmmm.

[golfmom]

Well, how do you think it came to be that every evening we hear about Natalee?

After getting the media on board, the reward just kept growing through donations.

[Marstan]

I just wish Raven would use the media to find out who the killer is - I mean - unless he knows - but nothing from him at all. I think most of us would look at this differently if he would just make some sort of statement - jeez - now is the time to clear this up especially after finding out Janet was pregnant with his child!

[tiffany]

I think Ravens guilty. Enough said.

[LTUlegal]

I really wonder how deeply he really does or DOESN'T care.
It doesn't appear Raven has many supporters, here, either. Hmmmm, very interesting.

[ewwwinteresting]

I just wish Raven would use the media to find out who the killer is - I mean - unless he knows - but nothing from him at all. I think most of us would look at this differently if he would just make some sort of statement - jeez - now is the time to clear this up especially after finding out Janet was pregnant with his child!
I am questioning this also. Why hasn't raven gone to the media to help find the killer. To me, it means he knows who the killer is. Why hasn't his family spoken out for him? To me, it means that they aren't exactly sure he is innocent or at least question his innocence. His family seems to care so much about themselves, maybe they don't want to look bad if raven does get arrested?? So far, only one of raven's friends (?) spoke out initially about his innocence and then stopped posting. Did he/she realize he might not be innocent??

It seems there are a few of us still undecided, however, with no one that knows raven posting, it's hard not to suspect raven and no one else.

As I stated before, if it was me, my son, brother, cousin, nephew or close friend, I'd be posting and telling everyone of my or his innocence! It's too bad no one in raven's camp seems to care.....

[lauriej]

...yes........and he such an oppurtune time today..........on the video we do have, ( yes, the boy doesn't look like he's miised a meal anytime lately.........)

...but he barely spoke 5 words................turned it over to his lawyer who is quoted as saying..."they are eager for an arrest"...
....aren't we all...........

[ewwwinteresting]

...yes........and he such an oppurtune time today..........on the video we do have, ( yes, the boy doesn't look like he's miised a meal anytime lately.........)

...but he barely spoke 5 words................turned it over to his lawyer who is quoted as saying..."they are eager for an arrest"...
....aren't we all...........
....and did you notice his attorney's demeanor when raven started to talk? Was pretty much indicating to raven to shut up after 2 words.

[lauriej]

....and did you notice his attorney's demeanor when raven started to talk? Was pretty much indicating to raven to shut up after 2 words.
...oh yeah...........and his lawyer was so red in the face when he spoke i thought he might be having a heart attack.........the heat maybe, or are all lawyers so flustered ?

[lauriej]

today of all days..............when raven had the reporters/cameras right there.........( even though they were there for the embezzlement case...)

...he had a golden oppurtunity to take the heat off of himself, and use that time to bring up the murder......and he didn't............not a single word........not a solitary tear.........instead he stammered away and then had his attny. speak......

...watching him on the video, he just comes across as so cold..............uncaring...

[Meech]

today of all days..............when raven had the reporters/cameras right there.........( even though they were there for the embezzlement case...)

...he had a golden oppurtunity to take the heat off of himself, and use that time to bring up the murder......and he didn't............not a single word........not a solitary tear.........instead he stammered away and then had his attny. speak......

...watching him on the video, he just comes across as so cold..............uncaring...

Ditto... same feeling I received as watching his demeanor on video..

[golfmom]

And did we hear him ONCE PLEA for Justice for Janet?

[PrayersForMaura]

I'm just one of those who almost always suspect the significant other in cases like these, especially if they were the last to see them, the woman is pregnant, there are money problems, and marital problems.

[Justgimmethetruth]

I just can't jump to conclusions using the facts that we've been "given." The point is, there hasn't been much to go on. Yes, the terrible murder scene and Raven's alibi. But, he might be telling the truth...The embezzelment is not proof that he committed a murder. I hope he does his "time," and continues to be a good father for Kaiden. And I hope justice is served. Until more facts are given, I remain on the fence ...

[Jenifred]

And did we hear him ONCE PLEA for Justice for Janet?I can answer this one!!!

NO!

[booradley]

When I heard this week (I'm behind, been on vacation, and I live in Hillsborough (home of Orange County Courthouse!) about Janet's pregnancy, I had a sick feeling in my stomach, "My gosh, he probably did kill her!" thoughts in my head. Today, watching his (and his lawyer's demeanor) I feel even more thoughts of GUILT. Why didn't he beg for help in getting the killer of his wife when he had the media right there? Why did his lawyer jump in and say we cannot say anything? If he is innocent, he is not acting as if he is. Perhaps he is innocent but just unable to pretend that he is grief stricken when he is not. JMO of course.

[Jenifred]

You know, Raven and his lawyer seemed a little too anxious to get off camera. And the way that Raven very quickly turned the questions to the lawyer was also a little odd. It's as if, someone posted this before, they didn't want Raven to slip up while he was talking.

[Moxie]

You know, Raven and his lawyer seemed a little too anxious to get off camera. And the way that Raven very quickly turned the questions to the lawyer was also a little odd. It's as if, someone posted this before, they didn't want Raven to slip up while he was talking.
I agree. It was weird. Julia Lewis from WRAL did try to ask him about Janet, but he refused to comment... Hmmm...

[Jenifred]

I agree. It was weird. Julia Lewis from WRAL did try to ask him about Janet, but he refused to comment... Hmmm...
And that could have been the perfect moment to proclaim innocence. Or at least, ask for help in solving the crime.

I'm glad the cameras were there.

[L L & S]

Just to play the devils advocate here.... I seriously think Raven was told to keep his bloomin' mouth shut. If his attorney is worth a dime, at least I hope thats what he told him. The man looked like he was about to explode (Raven) IMO. He has something to say, he just likes to do it online where he feels safe.

"I have overcome the world." that quote kept going through my mind. Creepy to say the least.

Oh sorry about the Hair Club jokes last night, just in case you're reading Raven, it was just us blowing off steam. I happen to think bald men are completely sexy. I married one!

(and I'd marry you again you hunka burnin' love! now would you please quit lurking and bring the garbage cans around to the patio for me? thanks dear!)

:blowkiss:

[L L & S]

Well, Rooster showed up to proclaim that he still believes Raven is not guilty of killing his wife and baby. I wish a few more of the lurkers out there watching this forum would chime in here and voice their opinions.

I would appreciate anyone who knows or claims to know Raven to speak up and tell us why they think it was not Raven who killed Janet. You can see our opinions all over the place here, but if you KNOW something that we don't ... please do share.

[LTUlegal]

Just to play the devils advocate here.... I seriously think Raven was told to keep his bloomin' mouth shut. If his attorney is worth a dime, at least I hope thats what he told him. The man looked like he was about to explode (Raven) IMO. He has something to say, he just likes to do it online where he feels safe.

"I have overcome the world." that quote kept going through my mind. Creepy to say the least.

Oh sorry about the Hair Club jokes last night, just in case you're reading Raven, it was just us blowing off steam. I happen to think bald men are completely sexy. I married one!

(and I'd marry you again you hunka burnin' love! now would you please quit lurking and bring the garbage cans around to the patio for me? thanks dear!)

:blowkiss:What's that???? Crickets chirping???
Yup, thought so.
Yes, Rooster posted ONCE...and seems to KNOW about Raven's innocence. Uhuh. Yes, Raven had the media in the palm of his hand, but he & his lawyer decided not to say a dang thing about his murdered wife an unborn child. And only said that Kaiden "looks good". Well, I guess the poor lil one isn't exactly doing a song & dance at his age, but that's all ya' got???? Good grief, Charlie Brown!

(didja' ever get that lurkin husband to bring up the garbage cans?? Yeah, me neither.)

[JerseyGirl]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Oh sorry about the Hair Club jokes last night, just in case you're reading Raven, it was just us blowing off steam. I happen to think bald men are completely sexy. I married one!

(and I'd marry you again you hunka burnin' love! now would you please quit lurking and bring the garbage cans around to the patio for me? thanks dear!)

:blowkiss:

[JerseyGirl]

You know, Raven and his lawyer seemed a little too anxious to get off camera. And the way that Raven very quickly turned the questions to the lawyer was also a little odd. It's as if, someone posted this before, they didn't want Raven to slip up while he was talking.It's not even so much the fact that he turned the questions over, IMO - his facial expressions and postures, etc., struck me really weird. The way his eyes looked, the shapes his mouth made ... and he seemed edgy. (Course, I'd be edgy too if I was in front of all of that media for my embarassing embezzlement case.)

Like I said yesterday, I can't put my finger on it. But it's not what he said that bothered me. Yet I was bothered tremendously. (ETA: I must say, however, that I have never met Raven in person so perhaps he looked and acted like his normal self in that video. I don't recall him that way at all in the Christmas video but maybe the real Raven acts just like the one on the news video from yesterday did.)

Anyway, seems the easiest way to avoid slipping up is by saying nothing. Can't get caught in lies and inconsistencies if you never talk about it. Maybe Raven's learned something from his past scrapes with the law. :innocent:

[ewwwinteresting]

Anyway, seems the easiest way to avoid slipping up is by saying nothing.
And herein lies the key to me why raven, his family and friends aren't talking. They know deep down he is not innocent and don't want to say anything that would indicate he wasn't. If he truly was innocent, how do you slip up? I mean, give me a break, he only has one person here (where you can posting annonomously) stating they know he's innocent and that person hasn't even really posted. Hmmm.....the silence is really saying a lot, imo.

[golfmom]

Hmmm.....the silence is really saying a lot, imo.

And there's the rub for me EI. How would I respond if my spouse was murdered. You couldn't shut me up! I would be calling LE and doing everything possible to ensure justice is served. Polygraphs, memorials, rewards, interviews ... I would leave not one stone unturned.

[ewwwinteresting]

You know what just hit me. raven just found out that Janet was pregnant this last week when she was murdered. Wow, seemed real broken up about it. Didn't mention one word when asked about Kaiden about his other son or daughter. Hmmm, took him less than a week to get over that news? How sad!

[golfmom]

You know what just hit me. raven just found out that Janet was pregnant this last week when she was murdered. Wow, seemed real broken up about it. Didn't mention one word when asked about Kaiden about his other son or daughter. Hmmm, took him less than a week to get over that news? How sad!

Well, ya know ... he's moved on.

[ewwwinteresting]

Well, ya know ... he's moved on.
Aren't ya just feeling for those poor unsuspecting Utah girls?

[Moxie]

And there's the rub for me EI. How would I respond if my spouse was murdered. You couldn't shut me up! I would be calling LE and doing everything possible to ensure justice is served. Polygraphs, memorials, rewards, interviews ... I would leave not one stone unturned.
Right. And I would be sad. Don't forget sad.

And if I had found out that not only did I lose my wife, but also a new child? Oh my gosh, there are not words to describe the anguish. And since the news that Janet was pregnant just broke last week, he seemed awfully together for having just found that out.

Unless, of course, he didn't just find out.

[golfmom]

Right. And I would be sad. Don't forget sad.

And if I had found out that not only did I lose my wife, but also a new child? Oh my gosh, there are not words to describe the anguish. And since the news that Janet was pregnant just broke last week, he seemed awfully together for having just found that out.

Unless, of course, he didn't just find out.

Why do I get the feeling that he has know all along and neglected to tell Janet's family ... leaving them to find out through some reporter. :furious:

[Moxie]

Why do I get the feeling that he has know all along and neglected to tell Janet's family ... leaving them to find out through some reporter. :furious:
I would not be at all surprised. How awful is that?

[Marstan]

I just wish Raven would come on line and at least tell us something - it's hard to believe in someone with all this silence.


Raven silence is not golden at this point. Please don't keep quiet any longer, I mean, listen to all these typists here at WS!

[ewwwinteresting]

After all this time since we started this thread.....only ONE person has stated they don't think raven is guilty.....ONE!

[JustJax]

Well, Rooster showed up to proclaim that he still believes Raven is not guilty of killing his wife and baby..Bird poop...its a nasty thing....

[L L & S]

Still wish Rooster or anyone else would show up for a friendly debate on this... all we get are one hit posters who say ..... Oh Lawdy, I knowwwww he's innocent. Ok, then come back and answer some questions and help us knowwwwww he's innocent. Heck, point to ANYONE else... come on... anyone... anyone...


:bang:

[ewwwinteresting]

I hope you're not holding your breath...we'd hate to lose you!

[L L & S]

Thanks Ewww you are way to sweet to me, I'm in a realy biotchy mood tonight....... I know it won't bring anyone out of the woodwork.. but I get so frustrated .... at least during the Peterson Case there were people like .... PLEASE DON'T KILL ME PEOPLE .... BFD who would at least debate with you. Supposedly the entire Abaroa clan is computer literate ... didn't The Rav himself set up a blog to share family photos and information with his family and friends?... yeah, we know that, but where are the people who think this boy is innocent and want to carry on an intelligent conversation about it?

That in itself bothers me the most.... The Rav has no friends... extended friends of friends? Heck I've seen crimes with LESS, yes I said LESS, media attention get more support from friends and family and extended community members than The Rav is getting. Thats sad. There is no one but the wacky Rooster... and the other one hit wonders out there who want to take the side of The Rav?

Man, thats sad to me. I know we do some joking on these threads, and this isn't a joking matter, but this is just a plain and simple truth... it's kind of funny how these people come here and make one post and then expect us to pay any attention to them what so ever.

Raven truly looks completely guilty of this crime... and it's not going to be long before someone who knows something has the guts to speak up, here or somewhere else online and I hope that person is more intelligent than the people who are coming here now. Sorry if that sounds harsh you guys... I really don't mean to bait... I just would appreciate that if you feel his charactor is being questioned... then come and have a conversation about it.

[BirdHunter]

Maybe Raven is just not all that important to them.:boohoo:

[ewwwinteresting]

Maybe Raven is just not all that important to them.:boohoo:
This is a good point BH. I know, for sure I would defend a family member. I'm trying to think if I would defend a friend....yes, I guess I would. It would have to be a friend though and not just an acquaintance. Maybe raven didn't have any "friends"...people who knew him, but no real friends. Like SES stated, to have a friend, you must be one. I wonder what raven had to offer someone...besides stolen soccer equipment??

[terminatrixator]

If it was someone in my family, that I knew was innocent, that I knew did not commit the crime, I would do everything in my power to find the real killer, I would be here every single day, nothing any of you could say would deter me from being heard, and I would shove as much proof in your faces as I could....but nobody in my family is as creepy as Raven, so I guess I'm lucky!

[JerseyGirl]

Is it still just us "regulars" here in this thread? No Raven supporters yet? :banghead:

[Jess]

As other posters have stated they would "stand by" a member of their families whom they suspected of committing a murder, but would NOT defend their actions. Perhaps members of Raven's family and inner circle are NOT defending him because they feel the same way ! Perhaps they have read these boards and realized that it is quite possible Raven is the murderer and will not come on here to defend something that is undefensible --or is it indefensible. Perhaps they have stronger morals than we realize.

[terminatrixator]

As other posters have stated they would "stand by" a member of their families whom they suspected of committing a murder, but would NOT defend their actions. Perhaps members of Raven's family and inner circle are NOT defending him because they feel the same way ! Perhaps they have read these boards and realized that it is quite possible Raven is the murderer and will not come on here to defend something that is undefensible --or is it indefensible. Perhaps they have stronger morals than we realize.
Great Point Jess.