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View Full Version : Do I dare ask? Weigh in on your thoughts about Katrina


Anngelique
08-31-2005, 04:54 PM
I was watching the news last night and I heard someone make a comment that my husband has been making for years now... why do people build up these big cities when they know they are in harms ways due to hurricanes? I mean it is like playing Russian Roulette. So do you guys think we should rebuild these cities or should people move further inland and use the coastline as more of a vacation spot? Should the tax payers keep doling out money for those who CHOOSE to live in spots such as these? I mean it is not IF they will get hit, it is WHEN will they get hit. I am not sure of my own feelings but it kind of makes sense to me to move out of such dire danger.

Before I get blasted my heart bleeds for all those affected by Katrina. I will be donating and I pray daily for them. I don't wish any ill on anyone and I am full of compassion for those who have lost lives and or property. I just wonder what should be done? What do we learn from all this? Is there a better answer than what we have been doing?

This could be quite a big can of worms to debate, but I am curious to others thoughts on this subject.

Details
08-31-2005, 04:55 PM
No, don't rebuild unless we've found a way to prevent this - not something depending on those fragile levees, something to stop New Orleans from continuing to sink.

tybee204
08-31-2005, 04:57 PM
Everyplace is prone to one type of natural disaster or another. We rebuild California after earthquakes, the midwest after tornados, fires in the southwest and Northeast and the coast after hurricanes.

If or when a hurricane hits me you bet I will be here rebuilding ASAP.

Casshew
08-31-2005, 04:58 PM
A lot to think about Anngelique, good questions.

I always felt uneasy when I was in California - worrying about 'the big one' but no one else seemed to care.:confused:

Dara
08-31-2005, 04:58 PM
I'm interested in this subject. Very. For now, I'll just say that while I was (and am) shocked and horrified at the devastation, some engineers I know are only horrified. Before the levees broke, they were predicting this.

Anngelique
08-31-2005, 05:03 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167790,00.html

Here is a good article to think about. Earthquakes are not near as seasonal and regular as hurricanes and normally the damage is not near as wide spread or devastating.

Mabel
08-31-2005, 05:07 PM
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167790,00.html

Here is a good article to think about. Earthquakes are not near as seasonal and regular as hurricanes and normally the damage is not near as wide spread or devastating.

Same with tornados. While they can be devastating, the damage is actually very limited.

Anngelique
08-31-2005, 05:46 PM
Fast Facts: Deadliest U.S. Hurricanes

The deadliest hurricanes to hit the continental United States since 1900, listed by name or nickname, location, year, category and number of deaths, according to the Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological Laboratory. Hurricanes in the North Atlantic Ocean were first named in 1950. Categories range from 1, the least severe, to 5.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167305,00.html

Cypros
08-31-2005, 06:26 PM
I am a native Californian but now live in PA. I experienced 2 major earthquakes (Semi Valley 1971, San Francisco 1989) as well as many. many smaller quakes over the years. I ca say that I would live in CA again, but I would never live in Hurricane country. Hurricanes are a yearly, seasonal event. People are having to pack up and get out all the time. Year after year, sometimes several times per season. Notable earthquakes come about once or twice in a lifetime and most people get throug them without injury or damage. There is no warning so you just go through it and then deal with the outcome. Also, the hurricanes seem to be getting stronger and stronger as the world's climate changes and so we can just expect more hurricanes threatening New Orleans. I haven't heard anything about global warming causing earthquakes.

Of course we assist a city like Los Angeles when a bad earthquake hits. So far, LA and SF have continued to be thriving functioning cities despite some serious damage. If, however, one of those cities was to become completely destroyed I would reluctantly say -- do not rebuild. That is my hope for New Orleans. It was a great American city. I regret that I never visited. I had a chance to go to a conference there a few years ago, but decided to wait until the next time --- there will be no more next time. The city has been reclaimed by the sea. The entire city is devastated and it is NOT FUNCTIONING. I doubt they can rebuild in a way that would guarantee survival of Category 4 or 5 storms considering the geography.

Personally I think they should convert the area of New Orleans into a research center. All kinds of studies can be done on the longterm effects of natural disasters. They can study the decay of the structures, the laying down of sediments, the chemical composition of the waters, the response of wild life. I am sure that there are many possibilites that I couldn't even think of myself. Things we can learn fom this unique site. I believe that if the government and scientists use their heads they could make good use of this situation.

BirdieBoo
08-31-2005, 06:29 PM
in California, buildings are built and sometimes retrofitted to withstand quakes.

What I don't understand is people in mudslide areas, like Laguna Beach, who lose their homes due to a slide and then rebuild in the same spot with the same technology. Those houses just won't hold. My grandparents lost their home there a few years ago in the fires, when they rebuilt, they had to put pillars down all the way into the bedrock before even building the foundation. apparently this helps with quakes as well as slides.
Their house is near a bunch of others that recently slid but were not as well constructed with the modern technology that should have been used. But theirs is still standing just fine.

I don't think there's a way to build a building so that it will be safer to live in during flooding.

Cypros
08-31-2005, 06:37 PM
I don't understand those people either, Birdieboo.

Gabby
08-31-2005, 07:28 PM
I would rebuild my home... as Dorothy said in the Wizard of Oz "There's no place like home"....

Anngelique
08-31-2005, 07:38 PM
I would rebuild my home... as Dorothy said in the Wizard of Oz "There's no place like home"....

But should the taxpayers have to pay the cost for you to rebuild that home? Or homeowners for the higher insurance rates because of the loss of homes from storms like that?

shopper
08-31-2005, 07:44 PM
I'm sitting here absorbed with this tragedy and am just stunned. I'm kind of over the shock but find it hard to wrap my mind around the long-term effects and that a city is for all intents and purposes "gone". It may one day be re-built and some buildings salvagable (altho I don't see how) but it will be a long time coming.

Life for those people as they knew it, is over. They are homeless, jobless, have little or no posessions, completely displaced and who knows for how long? At least a month, but months and months most likely. I cannot begin to imagine living in a shelter or bunking with family and friends miles away, knowing that the only things I brought with me are most likely my only posessions left in the world. And, are those that have been long dead and buried still in their graves? I would be wondering if I had to worry about my dearly departed loved ones floating around. Morbid, I know but that has to be a concern for some.

And this is NOTHING compared to anything these people are going through, but it makes me sad to think that the next time I want to go to NO for some good food and fun, it won't be there. Definitely not in the next couple of years. I guess my "New Orleans Bar Hopping" and the "Cat's Meow" t-shirts are collectors items now, lol. Same goes for my "Margaritaville" t-shirt.

Anyway, whenever there is a hurricane and homes are destroyed, I am always amazed that people would reconsider rebuilding there. Yeah, CA has earthquakes, just about everywhere has tornados (esp. the south and midwest), northerners have snowstorms/blizzards so anywhere you live is prone to natural disasters. But you know that if you live on the coast, eventually, a hurricane will probably get your home, some more than once. Either by it blowing away completely or flooded. Unless I were just rolling in money and could afford to either pay the high ins. premiums or pay to repair/rebuild out of my own pocket, knowing myself, I think I would be forced to relocate. But that's me, I'm not judging others that want to stick it out time and again.

At least MS can start to clean and rebuild now, who knows when NO will be able to? I wish I could do more than donate money, as we're all limited in what we can do. Really, I just wish that I could convince these people it's going to be okay. Or that it's okay now, they will be taken care of and they don't have to be afraid. But how naive is that? How insensitive would that sound? I just hope that I can show how much I care in small ways, the random acts of kindness and from donations I make. I want these people to know that we all care and want to ease their pain in any way possible, even if we can't.

Gabby
08-31-2005, 08:07 PM
But should the taxpayers have to pay the cost for you to rebuild that home? Or homeowners for the higher insurance rates because of the loss of homes from storms like that?


Well at least it will be used in the United States instead of another country.. and yes, we need to remember that charity begins at home... I hope this doesn't sound harsh, Anngel, you know that the written word is easily misinterrputed, I am saying this in a soft voice not a harsh angry one.

Anngelique
08-31-2005, 08:22 PM
I'm sitting here absorbed with this tragedy and am just stunned. I'm kind of over the shock but find it hard to wrap my mind around the long-term effects and that a city is for all intents and purposes "gone". It may one day be re-built and some buildings salvagable (altho I don't see how) but it will be a long time coming.

Life for those people as they knew it, is over. They are homeless, jobless, have little or no posessions, completely displaced and who knows for how long? At least a month, but months and months most likely. I cannot begin to imagine living in a shelter or bunking with family and friends miles away, knowing that the only things I brought with me are most likely my only posessions left in the world. And, are those that have been long dead and buried still in their graves? I would be wondering if I had to worry about my dearly departed loved ones floating around. Morbid, I know but that has to be a concern for some.

And this is NOTHING compared to anything these people are going through, but it makes me sad to think that the next time I want to go to NO for some good food and fun, it won't be there. Definitely not in the next couple of years. I guess my "New Orleans Bar Hopping" and the "Cat's Meow" t-shirts are collectors items now, lol. Same goes for my "Margaritaville" t-shirt.

Anyway, whenever there is a hurricane and homes are destroyed, I am always amazed that people would reconsider rebuilding there. Yeah, CA has earthquakes, just about everywhere has tornados (esp. the south and midwest), northerners have snowstorms/blizzards so anywhere you live is prone to natural disasters. But you know that if you live on the coast, eventually, a hurricane will probably get your home, some more than once. Either by it blowing away completely or flooded. Unless I were just rolling in money and could afford to either pay the high ins. premiums or pay to repair/rebuild out of my own pocket, knowing myself, I think I would be forced to relocate. But that's me, I'm not judging others that want to stick it out time and again.

At least MS can start to clean and rebuild now, who knows when NO will be able to? I wish I could do more than donate money, as we're all limited in what we can do. Really, I just wish that I could convince these people it's going to be okay. Or that it's okay now, they will be taken care of and they don't have to be afraid. But how naive is that? How insensitive would that sound? I just hope that I can show how much I care in small ways, the random acts of kindness and from donations I make. I want these people to know that we all care and want to ease their pain in any way possible, even if we can't.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

concernedperson
08-31-2005, 08:36 PM
I am kind of along with the same path, but I am so heartbroken right now that everything I say and do is directed there. I want to make it right but what is right? It is just too painful to get my mind around it all right now.I do what I can when all other avenues seemed destroyed and that is pray.

lex
08-31-2005, 10:30 PM
Same with tornados. While they can be devastating, the damage is actually very limited.


yes mabel, why is it tornados only hit trailer parks?

nanandjim
08-31-2005, 10:38 PM
But should the taxpayers have to pay the cost for you to rebuild that home? Or homeowners for the higher insurance rates because of the loss of homes from storms like that?
In this case, where the State of Louisiana was well aware that the levees in a below-sea-level location were not strong enough to handle a storm like this, it bothers me.

My husband has a salesman in the area who tried unsuccessfully to sell products which would strengthen the levees. The state didn't want to spend the money.

Of course, what's done is done. It is an everloving nightmare down there. The problem is not that we aren't willing to do everything that we can. The problem seems to be the water preventing the aids/supplies/help from getting to the areas which were hit the hardest.

ETA: My husband called the Governor's office today and offered his company's help. He was told that someone would call him back immediately. Do you think that anyone called him??

lex
08-31-2005, 10:55 PM
A lot to think about Anngelique, good questions.

I always felt uneasy when I was in California - worrying about 'the big one' but no one else seemed to care.:confused:


hi cass, welcome back! for me living here in 'the big one' country', i don't worry about earthquakes. i put it in the same catagory as getting in a car accident. if it happens, it happens. although i was out of town when the 1989 loma prieta quake hit, i might sing a different tune if i was in that one!
Anngelique, don't know the answer, but i do know if there was a major earthquake here every 2 or 3 years, i would be living somewhere safer.

Details
08-31-2005, 11:01 PM
Hurricanes, and New Orleans are two different things. I'm OK with rebuilding in a hurricane area - there's too much hurricane area, and they can hit almost anywhere. But rebuilding an area below sea level, with two big bodies of water held back by a few levees, in an area that gets hurricanes that makes it highly probable that the levees will break sometimes (this wasn't the worst case - they didn't get a direct hit, and it wasn't a cat 5) - I think that is just asking for it - like building a house on a flood plain - it shouldn't be done. If it is, we shouldn't pay for the new house to be built there.

heavenlydaze
08-31-2005, 11:33 PM
Go here:

http://cbs5.com/

This is an excellent video on what happened with this levy.

Click on the video on the RIGHT-HAND side of the page titled
"Understanding New Orleans Floods"
I don't know how long this video will be here, but I just watched it, so it's still up.

Lili
08-31-2005, 11:36 PM
I just had a big long story about our flood ready to post and deleted it. I told myself... "keep it simple - stupid."

People should have a choice about where they build, but safety should always come first. In our area one is not permitted to build in a floodplain. But any older homes that exist can be sold. Of course, if you buy in such an area, you must buy flood insurance...and it isn't cheap. That's why I am atop a hill, overlooking 2 creeks, I have jokingly said for years that if the creek gets this high, there's a whole lot of people in BIG trouble. But in 1996 I was seriously preparing to head even higher.

Mother Nature is fickle. So many possibilities of disasters, it's all about safety and being prepared.

Another thought I had tonight...when disasters happen around the world the good ole USA is always one of the first ones out there to lend a helping hand...are we getting any offers of aid from other countries?

My heart goes out to all those people, young and old. God bless them all, and get those children some food and water.

Nova
08-31-2005, 11:38 PM
Everyplace is prone to one type of natural disaster or another. We rebuild California after earthquakes, the midwest after tornados, fires in the southwest and Northeast and the coast after hurricanes.

If or when a hurricane hits me you bet I will be here rebuilding ASAP.

Exactly. By the time we all move out of the Western states (earthquakes and threat of tsunamis), the Midwest (tornadoes, floods and blizzards), and the Gulf and East Coasts (the obvious), where are we all going to live?

txsvicki
08-31-2005, 11:47 PM
Many of the people who hadn't left New Orleans because of the storm were unable to leave due to not being able to afford a tank of gas since it was end of the month. Some of these people may not be able to afford property in other places. I just hope that they all really do get some good long term help.

Marthatex
09-01-2005, 12:04 AM
Yes it is mainly the poor who were left behind. Those middle and upper-classers who have insurance and money will survive this, but even they will have problems - like where's my job? Where do I live until my house is rebuilt?

Hasn't New Orleans been sinking for years, and also Houston? I had read that Louisiana wanted to work on its Delta area and erosion, but were not able to get the money.

The special situation is Lake Ponchertraine on the other side, a set-up for disaster with poor levees. Yes, they should have taken a lesson from the Dutch years ago.

Hurricanes cannot be avoided, but this type of disaster could be. No, I don't think New Orleans should be rebuilt in the same place or manner. They need a new plan, but they still will have a port there.

lynie
09-01-2005, 01:29 AM
Really tough question, Laura!

I really think that there will be some form of New Orleans in the same location, if even just tourist/historical area but to rebuild an entire city there, the same way, wouldn't be smart. Yet, I have to think too that the historical buildings that have stood on Bourbon St. for hundreds of years have been okay until now, so why not rebuild at the same location?

I will not pretend to have answers or knowledge of the levee system there but it does seem to me that something more needed to be done throughout the past several years.

Details
09-01-2005, 01:37 AM
Another thought I had tonight...when disasters happen around the world the good ole USA is always one of the first ones out there to lend a helping hand...are we getting any offers of aid from other countries? The short answer - yes, several of them and even from at least one country we typically oppose (Venezuela). However, we don't help out on all disasters, and nor do all other countries. This is small compared to the tsunami.

GonzoReiter
09-01-2005, 01:56 AM
Exactly. By the time we all move out of the Western states (earthquakes and threat of tsunamis), the Midwest (tornadoes, floods and blizzards), and the Gulf and East Coasts (the obvious), where are we all going to live?
NOLA must be rebuilt, the question is:

do we have the national treasure and will to do it properly?

poco
09-01-2005, 06:05 PM
yes mabel, why is it tornados only hit trailer parks?

I think it has something to do with the shiny metal on the roofs that attract them.

poco
09-01-2005, 06:07 PM
I live on the West Coast of Florida and I will tell, just one Hurricane 4 or 5 through this area and my butt is outta here!!!! Goodbye!!! Adios!!! Whatever. I can make a home anywhere, somewhere I don't have to live in anxiety from June until the end of November.

txsvicki
09-01-2005, 07:44 PM
Does anyone know what has happened to the French Quarter? I am more concerned about the people, but I'd also really like to know if the French Quarter is completely ruined? I hate the thought of those pretty historic buildings being totally ruined.

concernedperson
09-01-2005, 07:58 PM
Does anyone know what has happened to the French Quarter? I am more concerned about the people, but I'd also really like to know if the French Quarter is completely ruined? I hate the thought of those pretty historic buildings being totally ruined.

All I know is that Antoine's lost their first floor.

shopper
09-01-2005, 08:07 PM
Does anyone know what has happened to the French Quarter? I am more concerned about the people, but I'd also really like to know if the French Quarter is completely ruined? I hate the thought of those pretty historic buildings being totally ruined.

I *think* it was Tuesday that I heard that surprisingly the FQ is on a little bit higher ground and that it had not flooded. Surely that can't be the case now as the water has risen.

If it is ruined then it will never, ever be the same. I agree with you, people are more important but the architecture is a very important part of NO.

kgeaux
09-01-2005, 08:48 PM
I was watching the news last night and I heard someone make a comment that my husband has been making for years now... why do people build up these big cities when they know they are in harms ways due to hurricanes? I mean it is like playing Russian Roulette. So do you guys think we should rebuild these cities or should people move further inland and use the coastline as more of a vacation spot? Should the tax payers keep doling out money for those who CHOOSE to live in spots such as these? I mean it is not IF they will get hit, it is WHEN will they get hit. I am not sure of my own feelings but it kind of makes sense to me to move out of such dire danger.

Before I get blasted my heart bleeds for all those affected by Katrina. I will be donating and I pray daily for them. I don't wish any ill on anyone and I am full of compassion for those who have lost lives and or property. I just wonder what should be done? What do we learn from all this? Is there a better answer than what we have been doing?

This could be quite a big can of worms to debate, but I am curious to others thoughts on this subject.


New Orleans is a very old city. Older than the USA! Although the location and altitude do leave a LOT to be desired, this is a tremendously important port city. New Orleans is a hub of art and oil businesses. It is inconceivable to me that it will not be rebuilt.

A little history......New Orleans was founded in 1718 by Jean Baptiste Le Moyne, sieur de Bienville, and named for the regent of France, Philippe II, duc d'Orleans. It remained a French colony until 1763, when it was transferred to the Spanish. In 1800, Spain ceded it back to France; in 1803, New Orleans, along with the entire Louisiana Purchase, was sold by Napoleon I to the United States.

One of my ancestors was a governor of New Orleans way back, way, way back. I cannot believe that New Orleans will cease to exist!

kgeaux
09-01-2005, 08:49 PM
Does anyone know what has happened to the French Quarter? I am more concerned about the people, but I'd also really like to know if the French Quarter is completely ruined? I hate the thought of those pretty historic buildings being totally ruined.


There's water on some streets of the French Quarter, but not all. I don't think it's as high as in some areas. But there will be some damage.

lisafremont
09-01-2005, 08:49 PM
New Orleans was founded a long time ago and people didn't always plan things well. They still don't.

As for the people who didn't evacuate...Some were able but didn't, foolishly. Most left behind had no where to go and no way to get there.

shopper
09-01-2005, 08:55 PM
I heard this yesterday about the levees, below sea level and that situation and if I understood it correctly maybe I can explain it. Anyway, the levees were built to protect the city from the Miss. River and Lake Pontchartrain but in doing so, it made it worse for the city as it's too protected now. The natural build up of soil that would come from (I think) low-level flooding hasn't happened in years and years and years. So it's kind of like a catch 22 I guess.

That's my very layman terms and understanding. Someone please feel free to correct me if this is incorrect.

kgeaux
09-01-2005, 09:16 PM
I heard this yesterday about the levees, below sea level and that situation and if I understood it correctly maybe I can explain it. Anyway, the levees were built to protect the city from the Miss. River and Lake Pontchartrain but in doing so, it made it worse for the city as it's too protected now. The natural build up of soil that would come from (I think) low-level flooding hasn't happened in years and years and years. So it's kind of like a catch 22 I guess.

That's my very layman terms and understanding. Someone please feel free to correct me if this is incorrect.


You got it, babe. The ground is not being built up by natural deposits that would occur if the levy system were not in place. Instead, the land is actually sinking......

Dara
09-01-2005, 09:19 PM
This article (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000) (that I just started reading) may add to the discussion. I looked it up because CNN interviewed the author earlier.

Drowning New Orleans A major hurricane could swamp New Orleans under 20 feet of water, killing thousands. Human activities along the Mississippi River have dramatically increased the risk, and now only massive reengineering of southeastern Louisiana can save the city It's dated October 2001, btw.

T'sNana
09-01-2005, 09:20 PM
This article (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000) (that I just started reading) may add to the discussion. I looked it up because CNN interviewed the author earlier.

It's dated October 2001, btw. Pretty much hits the nail on the head!

shopper
09-01-2005, 09:24 PM
You got it, babe. The ground is not being built up by natural deposits that would occur if the levy system were not in place. Instead, the land is actually sinking......

Thanks, I'm glad I got it right because it made complete sense to me.

Are you holding up okay?

shopper
09-01-2005, 09:25 PM
This article (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&articleID=00060286-CB58-1315-8B5883414B7F0000) (that I just started reading) may add to the discussion. I looked it up because CNN interviewed the author earlier.

It's dated October 2001, btw.

Great article, thanks. You are a blood hound when it comes to articles, I tell ya!

kgeaux
09-01-2005, 10:37 PM
Thanks, I'm glad I got it right because it made complete sense to me.

Are you holding up okay?

We're doing fine. Our city has taken in thousands of evacuees and we are all busy trying to get them comfortable and trying to come up with a long term plan. These people can't live in communal type shelters for long!

I have seen such good in people this week. Our school parents are bringing uniforms to displaced children. Our businesses are trying to find job placements for those who have lost jobs. It's just incredible. One of our local hospitals was receiving patients from Tulane, supplies stacked to the ceilings! Extra nurses called in to be sure that every single patient has the care they need--they even thought to get extra towels so these poor patients could get cleaned up as soon as they arrived. Another hospital took in all the babies from a neo-natal center in N. O., and then spent the day tracking down these infants' parents to let them know where their little ones were and that they were ok.

They announced on the local news last night at 10:30PM that some more people had arrived from New Orleans, and they asked for more blankets, etc. No one was expecting much response because it was late and on a work/school night. But the response was overwhelming. Cajuns are good people, always ready to help. Big hearts.

We've had a little trouble too. There have been some cars broken into at the CajunDome (that's our little version of the Super Dome) mostly to steal change that was left visible. A few instances of evacuees stealing cigarettes and cokes from a local store. But the good far outweighs the bad. Far outweighs.

concernedperson
09-01-2005, 11:12 PM
We're doing fine. Our city has taken in thousands of evacuees and we are all busy trying to get them comfortable and trying to come up with a long term plan. These people can't live in communal type shelters for long!

I have seen such good in people this week. Our school parents are bringing uniforms to displaced children. Our businesses are trying to find job placements for those who have lost jobs. It's just incredible. One of our local hospitals was receiving patients from Tulane, supplies stacked to the ceilings! Extra nurses called in to be sure that every single patient has the care they need--they even thought to get extra towels so these poor patients could get cleaned up as soon as they arrived. Another hospital took in all the babies from a neo-natal center in N. O., and then spent the day tracking down these infants' parents to let them know where their little ones were and that they were ok.

They announced on the local news last night at 10:30PM that some more people had arrived from New Orleans, and they asked for more blankets, etc. No one was expecting much response because it was late and on a work/school night. But the response was overwhelming. Cajuns are good people, always ready to help. Big hearts.

We've had a little trouble too. There have been some cars broken into at the CajunDome (that's our little version of the Super Dome) mostly to steal change that was left visible. A few instances of evacuees stealing cigarettes and cokes from a local store. But the good far outweighs the bad. Far outweighs.

I knew I could depend on you to be the spirit of all things that are good. I wish I could be there to help you.Thank you for making me proud of my home state and bless your every effort.

Nova
09-02-2005, 01:29 AM
This is certainly a fair topic for discussion, Annegelique, but there's a problem with our collective logic.

NO hadn't seen a hurricane of this severity in 100 years or more, if I remember correctly. It is possible, but not necessarily probable that another such storm will strike there in our lifetimes - nor in the reasonable life of any replacement buildings that are constructed.

SF was destroyed once, in 1906. But though it has seen earthquakes since, it has survived for five generations without comparable destruction.

NO is a special case, of course, because so much of it lies below sea level. And some areas along riverbanks may be questionable.

But we can't possibly evacuate every fault line or hurricane-prone site in the US. (Let's set the rest of the world aside for the moment.)

So simply abandoning places that have been totally or partially destroyed in the past (which could arguably include Chicago (fire), New York (9/11), all of California (earthquakes), Missouri (biggest earthquake in US history), Puget Sound (ancient tsunamis), and much of the "tornado" belt) merely concentrates even more people in areas that may host the next disaster.

kgeaux
09-02-2005, 07:23 AM
This is certainly a fair topic for discussion, Annegelique, but there's a problem with our collective logic.

NO hadn't seen a hurricane of this severity in 100 years or more, if I remember correctly. It is possible, but not necessarily probable that another such storm will strike there in our lifetimes - nor in the reasonable life of any replacement buildings that are constructed.

SF was destroyed once, in 1906. But though it has seen earthquakes since, it has survived for five generations without comparable destruction.

NO is a special case, of course, because so much of it lies below sea level. And some areas along riverbanks may be questionable.

But we can't possibly evacuate every fault line or hurricane-prone site in the US. (Let's set the rest of the world aside for the moment.)

So simply abandoning places that have been totally or partially destroyed in the past (which could arguably include Chicago (fire), New York (9/11), all of California (earthquakes), Missouri (biggest earthquake in US history), Puget Sound (ancient tsunamis), and much of the "tornado" belt) merely concentrates even more people in areas that may host the next disaster.


Hawaii (volcanoes) You are right.... It's everywhere! Danger, Will Robinson!

The below sea level thing: I am trying to remember my Louisiana geography classes, but my memory may be shaky. However, I think MOST of south Louisiana is at or below sea level.

PrayersForMaura
09-02-2005, 07:41 AM
It bothered me immensely to see the older people on the streets , close to death at any moment ... those in hospitals who couldn't get out.
Those folks in the hospitals are the responsibility of the hospital, I'm sorry to say. :(
They should've got them out sooner.

Marthatex
09-02-2005, 10:56 AM
That bothers me too. But I know I saw pictures of some of the hospital patients being moved out beforehand.

Maybe they thought these others couldn't be moved very easily, or there wasn't enough space elsewhere to move them.

I think they must have thought if they stayed on the higher floors they could stay there a few days. But evidently they ran out of food, supplies. It's part of Tulane, and I know Tulane immediately evacuated all the students up to Mississippi. My nephew was there.

You got me? There's going to be alot of things to figure out and account for. But no, I've never in my life seen the sight of a 90-year-old sitting on the sidewalk, uncared for, ill, with an aide frantically waving for help. Never, never.

Dara
09-02-2005, 11:03 AM
Here are (http://www.kentucky.com/mld/heraldleader/news/nation/12530380.htm) two stories about patients who apparently couldn't be moved:

Managers at a New Orleans nursing home were prepared for power outages and had enough food for days, but then the looting began. The Covenant Home's bus driver surrendered the vehicle to carjackers. Bands of people drove by the nursing home, shouting to residents, "Get out!" Yesterday, 80 residents were being evacuated to other nursing homes in the state.

"We had enough food for 10 days," said Peggy Hoffman, the home's executive director. "Now we'll have to equip our department heads with guns and teach them how to shoot."

I first read that yesterday. I don't know how they're doing now.

At the United Medical Rehab Hospital in New Orleans, 14 patients, 11 staff members and their families awaited rescue.

Nurse Bernadette Shine said the facility was nearly out of oxygen, and several diabetic patients had been without proper treatment for nearly a week. After the fruit cocktail and peanut butter ran out, the staff broke into the candy and drink machines to keep patients from going into shock.

"There are people that are not going to make it," Shine said. "One I've known since I was 10 years old. But we did what we could for them."

I'll look for updates later.

T'sNana
09-02-2005, 11:38 AM
I just wonder if Osama Bin Laden is going to claim responsibility for this?!! :loser:

Marthatex
09-02-2005, 01:23 PM
He couldn't be more pleased. That's 1000 fewer Jihadists he's got to recruit now to do dirty work.

bulletgirl2002
09-02-2005, 07:35 PM
But should the taxpayers have to pay the cost for you to rebuild that home? Or homeowners for the higher insurance rates because of the loss of homes from storms like that?
YES they should. You don't get to pick and choose your disasters that you want to cover. You are in a building that gets blown up, one that gets swept away by a tornado, one that gets blown away in a hurricaine, one that gets destroyed in a fire.....that is what insurance is for.....Just in Cast it does happen. Taxpayers help pay for Tsunami relief....why shouldn' t we pay for hurricaine victims in our own country?

bulletgirl2002
09-02-2005, 07:37 PM
The short answer - yes, several of them and even from at least one country we typically oppose (Venezuela). However, we don't help out on all disasters, and nor do all other countries. This is small compared to the tsunami.

Maybe not .....I have heard reports of over 10,000 dead

concernedperson
09-02-2005, 07:41 PM
YES they should. You don't get to pick and choose your disasters that you want to cover. You are in a building that gets blown up, one that gets swept away by a tornado, one that gets blown away in a hurricaine, one that gets destroyed in a fire.....that is what insurance is for.....Just in Cast it does happen. Taxpayers help pay for Tsunami relief....why shouldn' t we pay for hurricaine victims in our own country?

And I agree. I just want to be sure that they address the issues. Levee breaches and re-building at storm level not below that factor. These are all the things that have been avoided before.Responsibilty at all levels not just for the States coffers.Or, particulary for the States treasure trove for political reasons but for the people.

bulletgirl2002
09-02-2005, 07:46 PM
Many of the people who hadn't left New Orleans because of the storm were unable to leave due to not being able to afford a tank of gas since it was end of the month. Some of these people may not be able to afford property in other places. I just hope that they all really do get some good long term help.

We have 150 people (that I am aware of) coming to Augusta Georga and the good folks of Warren Baptist Church are taking them in and planning on this being a long term task. Also the schools here have said that any hurricaine refugee child can register for school here with no paperwork. Churchs here in the Augusta area are rallying together to clothe, house and feed these people for as long as it takes. I am sure that other southern communities are doing the same, but I just know about my city.

bulletgirl2002
09-02-2005, 07:53 PM
It bothered me immensely to see the older people on the streets , close to death at any moment ... those in hospitals who couldn't get out.
Those folks in the hospitals are the responsibility of the hospital, I'm sorry to say. :(
They should've got them out sooner.

The people in the hospitals were too sick to move...sadly. If you remember there was not much warning. That hurricaine was in south Florida and category 1. Went back out into the gulf and with less than 48 hours was a cat 4 hitting the gulf coast.

Mabel
09-02-2005, 08:40 PM
I just wonder if Osama Bin Laden is going to claim responsibility for this?!! :loser:


How's this for a scary thought? What better time would there be for someone to hit the US with a terror attack? We don't have any military power to spare.

Linda7NJ
09-02-2005, 09:07 PM
How's this for a scary thought? What better time would there be for someone to hit the US with a terror attack? We don't have any military power to spare.I was thinking the same thing this morning:chicken:

Toby
09-08-2005, 03:25 PM
Where do many of you live? Alec Baldwinia?? Where life is perfect?
There is no place on Earth which doesn't represent some form of risk.
When you step outside, you risk your life.
Get over it.
Life IS risk...its full of it. If you can't deal with that, maybe you should "thin the herd" a bit.

Why rebuild New Orleans? There are many reasons to do so, far too many to list here.

Reason #1: The beignets at Cafe' du Monde

That's enough of a reason to rebuild a whole city...to support beignets all around the world.
They need our support.
:furious:

tybee204
09-08-2005, 03:57 PM
Amen Toby and Im soooo glad to see you back.

tipper
09-08-2005, 04:09 PM
Someone called into Hannity's radio show yesterday. He grew up in LA and was asking, given that LA is one of the most corrupt states, who and how will all the billions of dollars that will be poured into the rebuilding be overseen.

marrigotti
09-08-2005, 04:12 PM
Interesting question, tipper. I have just been researching the well known corruption and mismanagement of funds in Louisiana. I hate to think of pumping billions of dollars into that state unless there are some kind of controls to prevent diversion.

less0305
09-08-2005, 04:36 PM
This might have already been discussed and I missed it - I'm trying to read so much so quickly, but....

What happens if they begin spending the billions of dollars to rebuild and before the levees are fixed and before the city is habitable again, but progress is being made - new phone and water and sewer lines, etc. - and another Cat 3 or 4 or 5 hurricane comes through and destroys all that progress? Do they go back to the drawing board and ask congress for more funding? I don't mean like in a month. I mean, like, if they're rebuilding and at the beginning of hurricane season next year rolls around and a massive hurricane hits there. What happens then?

concernedperson
09-08-2005, 04:49 PM
This might have already been discussed and I missed it - I'm trying to read so much so quickly, but....

What happens if they begin spending the billions of dollars to rebuild and before the levees are fixed and before the city is habitable again, but progress is being made - new phone and water and sewer lines, etc. - and another Cat 3 or 4 or 5 hurricane comes through and destroys all that progress? Do they go back to the drawing board and ask congress for more funding? I don't mean like in a month. I mean, like, if they're rebuilding and at the beginning of hurricane season next year rolls around and a massive hurricane hits there. What happens then?

This hasn't really been discussed before but it is a very valid concern. I am hoping that the funds for reconstruction are place with people who are concerned with the total future of New Orleans. I would like it to be a group of business people and envrionmentalists vs. the state or the fed.

I was speaking with an engineer friend yesterday and these are the types of issues we were talking about. IMO the levees will have to be built up to Cat 5 and reinforced at every point. Then you have the toxic ground water situation....all of that will have to addressed and this after the bulldozing of most of the homes around the lake and the ninth ward. If a house has 4 inches of toxic water in it you have to level it as the health risk is too great.

Honestly, I don't think New Orleans will be habitable for 6-8 months. So much work to do.

tipper
09-09-2005, 01:09 AM
I can't find an appropriate thread but I amfrustrated. I see evacuees on TV with such dignity I want to offer them a job and unlimited money on the spot. What can I do to make their lives whole again? Then again I see people who make me think - It's not my job to tell you to breath in, breath out. Clearly I need a net....