Hurricane Katrina Disaster Updates

[tybee204]

I lost a thread in moving. I dunno what happen. Something glitched so please continue here.

[Nova]

I lost a thread in moving. I dunno what happen. Something glitched so please continue here.

If it was the thread I'm looking for, it is probably just as well it was lost.

Thank you for collecting all these topics together.

[tybee204]

LOL I probably hit wrong button trying to figure out where to put this forum.

[mysteriew]

Storm victims were raped and beaten, fights and fires broke out, corpses lay out in the open, and rescue helicopters and law enforcement officers were shot at as flooded-out New Orleans descended into anarchy Thursday.

"This is a desperate SOS," the mayor said.

Anger mounted across the ruined city, with thousands of storm victims increasingly hungry, desperate and tired of waiting for buses to take them out.

"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."

In hopes of defusing the unrest at the convention center, Mayor Ray Nagin gave the refugees permission to march across a bridge to the city's unflooded west bank for whatever relief they can find. But the bedlam at the center appeared to make leaving difficult.

A military helicopter tried to land at the convention center several times to drop off food and water. But the rushing crowd forced the choppers to back off. Troopers then tossed the supplies to the crowd from 10 feet off the ground and flew away.

National Guardsmen poured in to help restore order and put a stop to the looting, carjackings and gunfire that have gripped New Orleans in the days since Hurricane Katrina plunged much of the city under water.

A National Guard military policeman was shot in the leg as he and a man scuffled for the MP's rifle, police Capt. Ernie Demmo said. The man was arrested.

"These are good people. These are just scared people," Demmo said.

Outside the Convention Center, the sidewalks were packed with people without food, water or medical care, and with no sign of law enforcement. Thousands of storm refugees had been assembling outside for days, waiting for buses that did not come.

At least seven bodies were scattered outside, and hungry people broke through the steel doors to a food service entrance and began pushing out pallets of water and juice and whatever else they could find.
http://www.news14charlotte.com/content/top_stories/default.asp?ArID=101563

[LinasK]

LOL I probably hit wrong button trying to figure out where to put this forum.
Is that why the boards were slow a little while ago?

[mysteriew]

While you are out and about on the web, or if there are refugees in your area please watch for Aaron Sloneker (9 yo) or his father James Sloneker. Aaron lived with his father in Poplarville, Mississippi. I would be interested in any news of the father, the son, or the town of Popularville, Ms. Please PM me with any info. And thank you in advance for keeping an eye out.

[mysteriew]

A reporter is embedded in a convoy to the disaster area with supplies. They will be recording the trip and Rich Jaffe will be submitting a blog of the trip- what they see in the different areas they go to. Here is his first blog entry.

http://wkrc.com/news/blog/jaffe.aspx

It looks like we've assembled a great team! Six deputies from the Butler County Sheriff's department, 7 volunteer truck drivers from three different companies, one ex-law enforcement ,now civilian from Wyoming, photographer Chris Hursh and myself. Yesterday none of us knew we'd be here together chasing a trail of destruction unlike anything this country has ever seen.
None of us really know what to expect. None of us knows how long we'll be gone. We don't know where we'll sleep, eat, or stop. All we know is Katrina is calling, and mixed in with that siren's call are the calls for help from thousands of victims along the Gulf Coast. We do know they desperately need the four truck loads of supplies we're hauling.

[mysteriew]

``They don't have a clue what's going on down there,'' Mayor Ray Nagin told WWL-AM Thursday night. ``Excuse my French -- everybody in America -- but I am pissed.''

At 4:35 a.m. today, an explosion rocked a chemical storage facility near the Mississippi River east of the French Quarter, said Lt. Michael Francis of the Harbor Police. A series of smaller blasts followed and then acrid, black smoke that could be seen even in the dark. The vibrations were felt all the way downtown.

Francis did not have any other information about the explosions and did not know if there were any casualties. At least two police boats could be seen at the scene.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco called the looters ``hoodlums'' and issued a warning to lawbreakers: Hundreds of National Guard troops hardened on the battlefield in Iraq have landed in New Orleans.

``They have M-16s and they're locked and loaded,'' she said. ``These troops know how to shoot and kill, and they are more than willing to do so, and I expect they will.''

At the Superdome, group of refugees broke through a line of heavily armed National Guardsmen in a scramble to get on to the buses.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/weather/orl-bk-katrina090205,0,5624628.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

[mysteriew]

About 4:35 this morning, a series of massive explosions rocked the riverfront a few miles south of the French Quarter. The cause of the blasts or the extent of any possible damage was not immediately known.

An initial explosion sent flames of red and orange shooting into the pre-dawn sky. A series of smaller blasts followed and then acrid, black smoke that could be seen even in the dark. The vibrations were felt all the way downtown.

The explosions appeared to originate close to the east bank of the Mississippi River, near a residential area and rail tracks. At least two police boats were at the scene.

http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/12543574.htm

[Dark Knight]

(AP) At 4:35 a.m. Friday, an explosion rocked a chemical storage facility near the Mississippi River east of the French Quarter, said Lt. Michael Francis of the Harbor Police. A series of smaller blasts followed and then acrid, black smoke that could be seen even in the dark. The vibrations were felt all the way downtown.

Francis did not have any other information about the explosions and did not know if there were any casualties. At least two police boats could be seen at the scene and a hazardous material team was on route.

It was the opening strike in yet another day of sadly deteriorating conditions since Katrina slammed ashore Monday morning.

[Marthatex]

OK, I just watched cnn and he interviewed two nurse midwives at the airport. The airport has been turned into a make-shift triage. all the sick and wounded are going there.

They looked so kind; they are working around the clock - they say they need way more help. They are getting ALL the sick and wounded around there. They cannot handle it all; no charts of course. The soldiers are helping them and they say THE SOLDIERS HAVE BEEN WONDERFUL.

The medical people there are really having their hands full and also hands tied for so many reasons.

There is a huge fire at the railroad near the French Quarter.

Dr. so and so, from the Baylor College of Medicine says they are there and they are "there for the long haul" to help these people. (Houston)

Michael Chertoff has called the Federal Response "magnificent". The media are "choking" on these words as they look around seeing dead bodies with rats eating them.

The mayor describes the response as "inadequate". An expert speaker on CNN says no one can help but feel the response is inadequate. He says the President should be the FIRST ONE to be asking, "Why aren't things going better, faster"? He points out that FEMA identified this probability long ago.

Mary Landreau gives "praise for the response". Choke, choke (she's running for something, right?)

And on goes the rescue effort, like a herd of turtles in a cloud of dust. (Mtex)

[concernedperson]

I am starting to get a lot of emails from the front.....family and friends. The Ritz Carlton Hotel has been turned into a hospital by doctors, nurses and pharmacists who were attending a convention. They were infectious disease physicians with no hands on but it is changing quickly. The police escorted them to Walgreen's where they broke in and wipe out all the things they needed for their hospital. The looters were right there waiting with armed police pointing their rifles at them.

Dr. Henderson said there is no National Guard presence near the Ritz and they hear gunshots all night long. He has limited access to the internet through the hotel. He said this is a soul edifying experience.

[Shadow205]

A new fire has broken out. I didn't get the exact location but it is off of Canal St. near several large hotels. I am concerned about the explosion/fire that erupted this moring at the chemical warehouse. As if they don't have enough problems now they have toxic smoke in the air.

[Marthatex]

That is really scary. Are the soldiers able to do anything? I guess once they got all those guns, what can you do? It's like being in Iraq. Just horrible. I feel so sorry for these people - doctors and others are not prepared to go into gunfire to get their supplies.

My husband would like to go; but I doubt they need too many surgeons yet; mostly infectious and internist I would think. OBGYn. He's going to wait and see if some of them start making it up here.

[T'sNana]

Per Fox News just landed in Mobile, AL

[redeskimo]

I just heard his interview with cnn , and I am impressed .He put it out there straight up . He cares for the people and the city . He's for real . This is the type of person that should be up front . When the big boy's get to hear this interview he may not have a job anymore . If you ask me , I would say Ray for president :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

[T'sNana]

I happen to have on Fox News and does anyone notice that the Coast Guard guy (for lack of better formal name) looks a lot like President Bush? WOW!!

[T'sNana]

I just heard his interview with cnn , and I am impressed .He put it out there straight up . He cares for the people and the city . He's for real . This is the type of person that should be up front . When the big boy's get to hear this interview he may not have a job anymore . If you ask me , I would say Ray for president :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: That's what they need...someone to stand up and tell what is exactly going on and quit sugar-coating it, IMO. :clap:

[less0305]

Ray can talk now.....and don't get me wrong, I think he tells it like it is and I agree with lots of what he says.....but he needs to also look at the city's preplanning for a major disaster. They underestimated and didn't plan for catastrophic disaster.

[T'sNana]

Ray can talk now.....and don't get me wrong, I think he tells it like it is and I agree with lots of what he says.....but he needs to also look at the city's preplanning for a major disaster. They underestimated and didn't plan for catastrophic disaster.
True!! After they get these people out and hopefully into "homes" (whatever or wherever that may be) they definitely, IMO, need to address this and know they will. I'm disappointed with the response...understatement...but I hope we can learn from this.

[SewingDeb]

I am starting to get a lot of emails from the front.....family and friends. The Ritz Carlton Hotel has been turned into a hospital by doctors, nurses and pharmacists who were attending a convention. They were infectious disease physicians with no hands on but it is changing quickly. The police escorted them to Walgreen's where they broke in and wipe out all the things they needed for their hospital. The looters were right there waiting with armed police pointing their rifles at them.

Dr. Henderson said there is no National Guard presence near the Ritz and they hear gunshots all night long. He has limited access to the internet through the hotel. He said this is a soul edifying experience.

I hope you don't mind, Concerned, but I shared your post with another forum. I had given them the link to your post, but they were directed to the sign up page. I think it is great that the doctors, nurses and pharmacists are there. Infectious disease if looking like a big possibility with the conditions in NO.

[concernedperson]

I hope you don't mind, Concerned, but I shared your post with another forum. I had given them the link to your post, but they were directed to the sign up page. I think it is great that the doctors, nurses and pharmacists are there. Infectious disease if looking like a big possibility with the conditions in NO.

Please do pass it around. He also asks in his email for suture packs, sterile gloves and stethoscopes if these supplies could get to them somehow. He also mentioned that the healthcare workers there all took a round of Cipro, they are expecting an outbreak of disease.

[kato]

Per local news the mayor just announced that Reliant Center can possibly hold up to 19k. He's also going to open up our George R. Brown Cconvention Ctr. which is huge. BUT it will take a little time. He has cancelled all conventions and activities planned for these places at a big financial loss to the city. Humanitarian aid comes 1st he said.

Gov. Perry has also declared TX as a state of emergency.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

State of TX told that CDC will be dropping a massive amount of medical supplies, drugs, etc. to LA today....no, I don't know what "massive" is, just telling you what we were told.

[concernedperson]

State of TX told that CDC will be dropping a massive amount of medical supplies, drugs, etc. to LA today....no, I don't know what "massive" is, just telling you what we were told.

It sounds like the need is there for sure. The airport field hospital thought they would be handling 250 people an hour but they are handling 850 people an hour.

[T'sNana]

What are the new fires from? Thugs? UGH!! I just tuned in again. I sure hope they aren't doing this to themselves and their "home" and their "people" (those of NO).

[Shadow205]

There have been shots fired in the downtown area near the Superdome and it seems in the general area of one of the fires. According to the reporter, there was an exchange of gunfire between the police/national guard and a group in a green cadilac. Looking at the scene on TV, it is hard to beleive that this is taking place in an American city. There is going to be blood shed and there will be those who then criticize the action that was taken. It is a no win situation. Innocent people have already died and more will die if this situation is not gotten under control.

[kato]

Our mayor thinks we may already have app.100,000 evacuees here. That would include other shelters than the dome such as churches and private homes.

[T'sNana]

There have been shots fired in the downtown area near the Superdome and it seems in the general area of one of the fires. According to the reporter, there was an exchange of gunfire between the police/national guard and a group in a green cadilac. Looking at the scene on TV, it is hard to beleive that this is taking place in an American city. There is going to be blood shed and there will be those who then criticize the action that was taken. It is a no win situation. Innocent people have already died and more will die if this situation is not gotten under control. IMO, they gotta do what they gotta do to get control...if that includes some thugs getting in the way, then so be it, IMO. The few are ruining it for the ones who are just trying to get the heck out! I, for one, would not be in judgment for any action needed. They HAVE to. JMO

[kato]

IMO, they gotta do what they gotta do to get control...if that includes some thugs getting in the way, then so be it, IMO. The few are ruining it for the ones who are just trying to get the heck out! I, for one, would not be in judgment for any action needed. They HAVE to. JMO

I agree. It's gotta start sometime because it will not get any better they longer they wait to restore some kind of order.

[T'sNana]

I agree. It's gotta start sometime because it will not get any better they longer they wait to restore some kind of order.
Probably one less thug (or more) they have to deal with in the facilities that are taking these dislocated people in! IMO

ETA: It's not like they WANT to shoot anyone. It's he!! for them to go through this (nightmares, PTSD), but they will have to, I fear. I also pray for their sanity when they do. Some of these people are nothing more than a rabid animal (the few who are toting guns and looting non-food items, raping, killing, harrassing). Again, IMO

[T'sNana]

JMO, but I don't think a lot of this would be happening had they gotten to these people sooner. But, then again, if most of these troublemakers are known for this, they would do it anyway or take the trouble with them. I just feel sad for the people who are just wanting OUT OF THERE!!!

[Shadow205]

I just heard an estimate of at least 8,000 people still remain in NO that need to be evacuated. They are also estimating approx. 1.7mil. people will be living in shelters for an extended period of time. It will be a long long time before life returns to normal if ever for so many people.

[T'sNana]

I just heard an estimate of at least 8,000 people still remain in NO that need to be evacuated. They are also estimating approx. 1.7mil. people will be living in shelters for an extended period of time. It will be a long long time before life returns to normal if ever for so many people.Thanks for the info. So sad....these poor people (elderly, children, ill).

[Marthatex]

They are interviewing a Dr. from Charity Hospital on CNN:

Evidently the generator failed after about a day; there have been multiple deaths at Charity and he said alot more of them are dying right now, today. He was in the hospital about 5 days straight.

[T'sNana]

They are interviewing a Dr. from Charity Hospital on CNN:

Evidently the generator failed after about a day; there have been multiple deaths at Charity and he said alot more of them are dying right now, today. He was in the hospital about 5 days straight. I wonder if they are trying to evacuate them? A hospital would be a HUGE priority! Those nurses and doctors and miscellaneous personnel that stayed on....they deserve heroic recognition. They were bagging these people, which is VERY tiring, for long periods of time because they had no power to run the ventilators. HEROES!

[Dara]

I wonder if they are trying to evacuate them? A hospital would be a HUGE priority! Those nurses and doctors and miscellaneous personnel that stayed on....they deserve heroic recognition. They were bagging these people, which is VERY tiring, for long periods of time because they had no power to run the ventilators. HEROES!
Wasn't Charity one of the hospitals that had to stop evacuating due to gunfire? Maybe that's been contained and now they're getting people out. I'll try to find info.

[less0305]

Wasn't Charity one of the hospitals that had to stop evacuating due to gunfire? Maybe that's been contained and now they're getting people out. I'll try to find info.

I heard a Dr. from Charity being interviewed live about two hours ago and she said helicopters were landing as she spoke and that the most critical and neonatal had been evacuated, but that there were still about 1500 people there to be evacuated...by helicopter this will take a little while. But she said evacuation efforts are running.

[Dara]

I heard a Dr. from Charity being interviewed live about two hours ago and she said helicopters were landing as she spoke and that the most critical and neonatal had been evacuated, but that there were still about 1500 people there to be evacuated...by helicopter this will take a little while. But she said evacuation efforts are running.
Thank you!

Finally.

Wow, I just found something. Check this out.

Charity is across the street from Tulane University Medical Center, a private facility that has almost completed evacuating more than 1,000 patients and family members, he said.

No such public resources are available for Charity, which has about 250 patients, or University Hospital several blocks away, which has about 110 patients.


That's from a Fox Story (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168192,00.html) from this morning. Ok, so a private hospital managed to get people out, but the government couldn't, even with horrific conditions and patients dying. When the excuses start, I want to remember that.

[T'sNana]

When the excuses start, I want to remember that. Yep, that's the only way things get changed and hopefully lives saved in the future.

[concernedperson]

Just In......A huge oil spill in Venice, La. has just been reported. At the mouth of the Mississippi River.Two million barrel tanks.

Oh one more thing!!!!!!!

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Just FYI to show the magnatude of this....we've heard about Houston, San Antonio as major evacuation cities. I've reported Austin and Bryan also had shelters open, but on a much lesser scale. Even lil' ol Waco had 3 open as of yesterday.

Our Region is now officially being impacted: One sub-district that has 117 officers, has been told to put 85 (of 117!) on standby, to be ready to move out for one week. (So only 32 would remain in our district for normal duty, eeks) Another sub-district (111 officers) is to put 25 two-man units(!) on stand-by, for the same thing - one week. They will most likely be deployed to Houston or Dallas. (We've got one more sub-district, but I haven't heard what they're being requested to do.)

Dallas Region - their evacuation centers (at least the "official" ones) are ALREADY FULL, and now we're planning for Dallas' overflow to head to Waco!

Concern already about the medical needs for all these displaced people, not at the primary LA and MS cities - it will impact the health resources of Houston, SA, Austin, Dallas and Waco, etc. for months to come. And then the associated problems - health concerns with children in these school districts. Contagious diseases being spread. And it continues....

[Shadow205]

Major Air lines are beginning to airlift refugees from N.O. they are going to be taken to an airforce base (Lakland?) and be disbursed from there. Man, there is going to be people strung out all over the country.

[T'sNana]

I have no idea how they can keep track of who goes where and how people can find each other but I imagine that's not their #1 priority at this time. I wish I could go down there and help them with a database of names but I'm sure that's going on to an extent. I just feel helpless.

[Shadow205]

Just FYI to show the magnatude of this....we've heard about Houston, San Antonio as major evacuation cities. I've reported Austin and Bryan also had shelters open, but on a much lesser scale. Even lil' ol Waco had 3 open as of yesterday.

Our Region is now officially being impacted: One sub-district that has 117 officers, has been told to put 85 (of 117!) on standby, to be ready to move out for one week. (So only 32 would remain in our district for normal duty, eeks) Another sub-district (111 officers) is to put 25 two-man units(!) on stand-by, for the same thing - one week. They will most likely be deployed to Houston or Dallas. (We've got one more sub-district, but I haven't heard what they're being requested to do.)

Dallas Region - their evacuation centers (at least the "official" ones) are ALREADY FULL, and now we're planning for Dallas' overflow to head to Waco!

Concern already about the medical needs for all these displaced people, not at the primary LA and MS cities - it will impact the health resources of Houston, SA, Austin, Dallas and Waco, etc. for months to come. And then the associated problems - health concerns with children in these school districts. Contagious diseases being spread. And it continues....
This is a scary thought. With the refugees being transported all over the country, if any of them are sick or soon to be sick from the exposure to the elements there in N.O. then this could spread like wildfire. I don't mean to sound cold but maybe the refugees should not be relocated all over the country.

[T'sNana]

This is a scary thought. With the refugees being transported all over the country, if any of them are sick or soon to be sick from the exposure to the elements there in N.O. then this could spread like wildfire. I don't mean to sound cold but maybe the refugees should not be relocated all over the country.
Dr. Gupta was on last night. Can't remember which program. I was up very late. Anyway, he said he didn't think the infectious disease problem would be that great of an issue, in his opinion. But, I would think it's a major concern.

[Shadow205]

Dr. Gupta was on last night. Can't remember which program. I was up very late. Anyway, he said he didn't think the infectious disease problem would be that great of an issue, in his opinion. But, I would think it's a major concern.
I think I'll put him and his opinion in the same category as the ones who didn't think the Levy system was a problem that needed fixing.

[T'sNana]

Patients apparently arriving at the airport from Charity Hosp., military trucks almost to the comm. center and will unload, go pick up more (water, supplies, etc.) and have medical checks.

[T'sNana]

I think I'll put him and his opinion in the same category as the ones who didn't think the Levy system was a problem that needed fixing.
True! *L*

[BarnGoddess]

For those of you who are wondering and disturbed about those who still need rescuing, here is a personal story. I have permission to use his name from his father who works with me.

Darren Weber was a former resident of Lake Charles, LA who now lives in Waco, TX. In the family tradition, he is a volunteer fireman. He was asked by his former LA fire chief to come over and bring his boat. This was on Monday. He took personal vacation leave and finally was able to get into Baton Rouge for staging. They were staying at the Game Warden's headquarters in Baton Rouge. The made it into NO yesterday, after arranging for armed protection on each boat. They finally made it into the area where people were still trapped in their homes and buildings. As they prepared to pass under an overpass, they were fired on by thugs on the bridge. They were extremely lucky that a cop car was nearby and reached the thugs before they killed these volunteers. As a group, these volunteers with the needed private equipment made the decision to turn around and leave. Back in Baton Rouge last night, while on the phone to his mother, shots were fired and could be heard very near the building where they were staying. Lawlessness even as far as Baton Rouge.

Out of control!!!!! Here is the help everyone is demanding and volunteers that are willing to give it. I don't blame them for leaving. Those who are waiting to be rescued can look to a thug as one reason they haven't been helped.

[Dara]

For those of you who are wondering and disturbed about those who still need rescuing, here is a personal story. I read it. Thank you for sharing. I am glad Darren wasn't hurt.

I am still disturbed. I am still wondering. I still understand why people are "demanding" help.

When rioting, unanticipated rioting, happens, we expect troops will go in and get things under control. We don't expect that people will be left to die and be raped and beaten! Do you seriously not understand why they're "demanding" help? Volunteers shouldn't be endangering their lives. They should have had protection. Looters and criminals are, as you say, "one reason" help isn't getting through. But it's been a bad situation for a long time, and the response wasn't enough. Not near enough.

Even President Bush (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4208986.stm) is finally admitting it. President George Bush has conceded the initial response to Hurricane Katrina was "not acceptable" but has said every effort is being made to save lives.
Yep. Is NOW being made. WAS not acceptable.

[less0305]

I heard it explained this morning that the Governor of each state MUST request federal troops. The President can't just send troops or people in to "take over" in any state in the union. Our constitution and government system is built on this premise. States run themselves. The federal govt. can't take over a state. The governor of LA did not ask for troops. I heard a reporter continue for nearly five minutes to pin the governor down as to when she actually requested troops and how many she requested. She couldn't answer him. She kept sidestepping the question and he kept pressing. She got flustered and could not answer. That reporter knew she was not going to admit that she didn't ask for national troops until things had deteriorated terribly. Maybe she didn't know what to do. Maybe she thought they could handle things on their own. I don't know. And I know many people are going to say WTF, people are dying...send troops anyway. But that's not how our govt and constitution is set up. If the govt came in and stepped into the state's business whenever they wanted, we wouldn't even have a state system. We may as well not have the government that we have. We would be a dictatorship. I know there is enough blame to go around. But I just wanted to point that out.

[Dara]

<snipped only for length> Maybe she thought they could handle things on their own. I don't know. And I know many people are going to say WTF, people are dying...send troops anyway. But that's not how our govt and constitution is set up. If the govt came in and stepped into the state's business whenever they wanted, we wouldn't even have a state system. We may as well not have the government that we have. We would be a dictatorship. I know there is enough blame to go around. But I just wanted to point that out.
These are exactly the kinds of specifics I think we need to know. I think troops should have been there. So, why weren't they?

Now, I get that the government may not have the authority to send troops if the governor didn't request them, but we all knew they were needed. So, could the president or someone high up give a nice phone call and say, "Er, you know, we're happy to send you some help." Or even, "Hey, we need to help you out. You're in trouble. You need to request troops." I'm sorry, but when things get to the point they reached 2 days ago, a "Well, you didn't ask" from the White House isn't much consolation.

[Mabel]

I heard it explained this morning that the Governor of each state MUST request federal troops. The President can't just send troops or people in to "take over" in any state in the union. Our constitution and government system is built on this premise. States run themselves. The federal govt. can't take over a state. The governor of LA did not ask for troops. I heard a reporter continue for nearly five minutes to pin the governor down as to when she actually requested troops and how many she requested. She couldn't answer him. She kept sidestepping the question and he kept pressing. She got flustered and could not answer. That reporter knew she was not going to admit that she didn't ask for national troops until things had deteriorated terribly. Maybe she didn't know what to do. Maybe she thought they could handle things on their own. I don't know. And I know many people are going to say WTF, people are dying...send troops anyway. But that's not how our govt and constitution is set up. If the govt came in and stepped into the state's business whenever they wanted, we wouldn't even have a state system. We may as well not have the government that we have. We would be a dictatorship. I know there is enough blame to go around. But I just wanted to point that out.


I didn't see the interview, but is is possible that the reason the governer wouldn't commit to exactly when she requested troops is because she didn't want to speak against someone higher up?

[tybee204]

Well that and a large percent of Louisana, Mississipi and Alabama's National Guard are not protecting their homefronts. They are in Iraq. Im still confused why the Guard is being used in Iraq but that is another topic.

[concernedperson]

I heard it explained this morning that the Governor of each state MUST request federal troops. The President can't just send troops or people in to "take over" in any state in the union. Our constitution and government system is built on this premise. States run themselves. The federal govt. can't take over a state. The governor of LA did not ask for troops. I heard a reporter continue for nearly five minutes to pin the governor down as to when she actually requested troops and how many she requested. She couldn't answer him. She kept sidestepping the question and he kept pressing. She got flustered and could not answer. That reporter knew she was not going to admit that she didn't ask for national troops until things had deteriorated terribly. Maybe she didn't know what to do. Maybe she thought they could handle things on their own. I don't know. And I know many people are going to say WTF, people are dying...send troops anyway. But that's not how our govt and constitution is set up. If the govt came in and stepped into the state's business whenever they wanted, we wouldn't even have a state system. We may as well not have the government that we have. We would be a dictatorship. I know there is enough blame to go around. But I just wanted to point that out.

I saw that interview as well. I believe I said early on that she wasn't acting like herself, she was pretty upset before the storm hit. I believe her advisors were saying that local National Guard would reinforce police....too little and not in a timely fashion. She didn't get the picture and should have ordered national troops immediately. No question the power was going to go out.....it always does 100% of the time. No question that many, many residents stayed and with the heat and no power you would have civil unrest in a big city.Poor planning....remember on Tuesday a.m. Mayor Nagin saying send in the troops?

[Ntegrity]

Im still confused why the Guard is being used in Iraq but that is another topic.
Why are you confused? They've always been basically reserve type military units and can be called up for foreign wars or to protect our homeland. They go wherever they're needed. My son was formerly in the Army National Guard but is now in the USAF reserves.

[less0305]

I saw that interview as well. I believe I said early on that she wasn't acting like herself, she was pretty upset before the storm hit. I believe her advisors were saying that local National Guard would reinforce police....too little and not in a timely fashion. She didn't get the picture and should have ordered national troops immediately. No question the power was going to go out.....it always does 100% of the time. No question that many, many residents stayed and with the heat and no power you would have civil unrest in a big city.Poor planning....remember on Tuesday a.m. Mayor Nagin saying send in the troops?

Exactly....I don't think she even realized what the scope was going to be until it was too late. I honestly think she thought the state of LA would handle this. I think she grossly misjudged and under-calculated the devastation...and then became shell shocked as to what to do next. I don't live there, but that was my impression.

[tybee204]

National Guard: Enough GIs for Storm Duty
By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer


WASHINGTON -- Some 6,000 National Guard personnel in Louisiana and Mississippi who would be available to help deal with the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina are in Iraq, highlighting the changing role of America's part-time soldiers.

"The juxtaposition of the mission to Iraq and the response to Katrina really demonstrates the new and changing character of the National Guard," Daniel Goure, a military analyst at the private Lexington Institute, said Monday.


The war has forced the Guard into becoming an operational force, a far cry from its historic role as a strategic reserve primarily available to governors for disasters and other duties in their home states.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/wire/sns-ap-katrina-national-guard,1,6488472.story?coll=sns-ap-nation-headlines

[less0305]

I didn't see the interview, but is is possible that the reason the governer wouldn't commit to exactly when she requested troops is because she didn't want to speak against someone higher up?
Nope...laying blame higher up would have been a lot easier than squirming IF she could have said, I asked for 20,000 troops to be sent on Tuesday at noon. She even so much as went on to answer one question with "I don't even know what day today is." Ask the people at the convention center - they'll tell you what day it is - going into the 5th day without food and water.

[Dara]

Did you all just see the sheriff from (Loudon County?) Virginia who had a team on the road with MREs, tents, etc, who was told to turn around and leave by someone in the command center, that LA was turning everyone away because they had no place to house them? The sheriff said he told them they were self-sufficient but were told to go back.

[tybee204]

Send them to Mississippi. They are letting help in.

[Mabel]

Did you all just see the sheriff from (Loudon County?) Virginia who had a team on the road with MREs, tents, etc, who was told to turn around and leave by someone in the command center, that LA was turning everyone away because they had no place to house them? The sheriff said he told them they were self-sufficient but were told to go back.

Interesting. The trucking company my husband works for sent two trailer loads of bottled water down on Monday. I haven't heard yet how (or if) it was accepted.

[less0305]

Did you all just see the sheriff from (Loudon County?) Virginia who had a team on the road with MREs, tents, etc, who was told to turn around and leave by someone in the command center, that LA was turning everyone away because they had no place to house them? The sheriff said he told them they were self-sufficient but were told to go back.

I hope they do go back and stop in other areas.... The focus in NO is getting everyone OUT of N.O. The military brought something like 6 million MREs for those evacuees who will be put on buses and sent out of NO in the very near future. I think the military brought enough for what is left in NO. Those supplies might well be needed now in areas where people are not being sent out, but rather coming back in to clean up and restore. N.O. is a long way from that right now. People with supplies might be better off taking them to the rescue cities and sites who have been inundated with the evacuees.

[concernedperson]

Did you all just see the sheriff from (Loudon County?) Virginia who had a team on the road with MREs, tents, etc, who was told to turn around and leave by someone in the command center, that LA was turning everyone away because they had no place to house them? The sheriff said he told them they were self-sufficient but were told to go back.

I walked in at the end and couldn't figure out what had been said but was getting the impression that it was something like this. This is really poor leadership.

[Dark Knight]

I heard it explained this morning that the Governor of each state MUST request federal troops. The President can't just send troops or people in to "take over" in any state in the union. Our constitution and government system is built on this premise. States run themselves. The federal govt. can't take over a state. The governor of LA did not ask for troops. I heard a reporter continue for nearly five minutes to pin the governor down as to when she actually requested troops and how many she requested. She couldn't answer him. She kept sidestepping the question and he kept pressing. She got flustered and could not answer. That reporter knew she was not going to admit that she didn't ask for national troops until things had deteriorated terribly. Maybe she didn't know what to do. Maybe she thought they could handle things on their own. I don't know. And I know many people are going to say WTF, people are dying...send troops anyway. But that's not how our govt and constitution is set up. If the govt came in and stepped into the state's business whenever they wanted, we wouldn't even have a state system. We may as well not have the government that we have. We would be a dictatorship. I know there is enough blame to go around. But I just wanted to point that out.
It's my understanding that the President can activate National Guard troops for emergencies, as well as Governors.

[Dara]

I hope they do go back and stop in other areas.... The focus in NO is getting everyone OUT of N.O. The military brought something like 6 million MREs for those evacuees who will be put on buses and sent out of NO in the very near future. I think the military brought enough for what is left in NO. Those supplies might well be needed now in areas where people are not being sent out, but rather coming back in to clean up and restore. N.O. is a long way from that right now. People with supplies might be better off taking them to the rescue cities and sites who have been inundated with the evacuees. I'm under the impression that they were just going to Louisiana. I don't know if they were heading specifically to NO. The part I forgot to report on (multi-tasking) is that the sheriff was called to go there. He said the person he spoke to (I didn't get who called him, but it was an official) was panicked. So, they didn't just decide to go there; they were requested. That was a pretty important piece of the story I left out (sorry).

And I don't know when this happened. We're all seeing a lot of relief today. Yesterday? Not so much.

[less0305]

Dara...

Thanks for the update. I don't know, I'm sure their help will much appreciated somewhere. They are a blessing to be had.

[less0305]

It's my understanding that the President can activate National Guard troops for emergencies, as well as Governors.


And that could well be the case.....I just didn't understand that from the interview I heard this morning. Sorry.

[Mabel]

Wow, I just heard the interview with the mayor of NO for the first time. He's not kidding when he says he's pi$$ed. Not long afterwards he met with the President. It's surprising that he didn't :slap: him.

[less0305]

Wow, I just heard the interview with the mayor of NO for the first time. He's not kidding when he says he's pi$$ed. Not long afterwards he met with the President. It's surprising that he didn't :slap: him.

Mabel....I heard the unedited version this morning live. No bleeping out of the bad words. I think CNN may have some fines to pay!

[Dara]

Dara...

Thanks for the update. I don't know, I'm sure their help will much appreciated somewhere. They are a blessing to be had.
You're welcome. I do hope they get to help out. It's got to be hard for people who want to help but couldn't for whatever reason.

I'm not much of an updater, but I'm lucky enough to be home and have a bunch of TVs on. Problem is, I go from room to room and miss a lot. And when I am on the phone, I pace. I can't ever seem to sit and talk on the phone. Strange, I kow.

Wow, they're air some of a radio address Mayor Nagin gave last night coming up. From the little I heard, he's angry. They were going to air it, then Wolf Blitzer said they would have it later. I think they're cleaning it up. He was cursing in the part I heard.

[kgeaux]

They are interviewing a Dr. from Charity Hospital on CNN:

Evidently the generator failed after about a day; there have been multiple deaths at Charity and he said alot more of them are dying right now, today. He was in the hospital about 5 days straight.


My friend's uncle is in Charity. He was injured in an accident Saturday and they took him there because of the excellent trauma team. She cannot get any news of him.

[Mabel]

Mabel....I heard the unedited version this morning live. No bleeping out of the bad words. I think CNN may have some fines to pay!

The version I heard sounded as if some words had been substituted, unless he actually did say "dagnab it". There was also some bleeping.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I reported this back on Wednesday, per a memo received here, that if volunteers, supplies, etc were not approved through the State of LA Operations, they would be turned around. Sounds like much of the problem is at the state level of government; between turning around assistance, Governor not able to deal with this, etc.

Our Region's #'s put on stand-by has been finalized, 90 officers (less than first estimated about 2 hrs ago.) But they're already named and ready to roll out of Region. Doesn't take long once people ask for help.

[Dara]

Here's a description (http://www.petoskeynews.com/articles/2005/09/02/ap/headlines/d8cc9vlge.txt)of the mayor's address:

"Get off your asses and let's do something," the mayor told WWL-AM Thursday night in a rambling interview in which he cursed, yelled and ultimately burst into tears. At one point he said: "Excuse my French _ everybody in America _ but I am pissed."

The article has a lot of other info but I wanted to share the excerpt since we've been talking about the Nagin's address.

[Dara]

I reported this back on Wednesday, per a memo received here, that if volunteers, supplies, etc were not approved through the State of LA Operations, they would be turned around. Sounds like much of the problem is at the state level of government; between turning around assistance, Governor not able to deal with this, etc. So, you're ok now with "post-analysis" and what you've been calling finger-pointing?

Just checking. ;)

Now that help is arriving, I think we can expect some attempts at revisionist history and I think many of us will forget in time just how bad it really was, and truly how events unfolded. I think it's important to talk it through as it happens. It helps us remember. IMO.

[BarnGoddess]

Here's a description (http://www.petoskeynews.com/articles/2005/09/02/ap/headlines/d8cc9vlge.txt)of the mayor's address:


The article has a lot of other info but I wanted to share the excerpt since we've been talking about the Nagin's address.
Dara, I heard from a co-worker who had been watching the news here (I missed it), that a general stepped off a helicopter and met with the mayor. The general cursed worse than the mayor, but the mayor said something about thank goodness help had arrived in the form of someone who could take command.

True or not? Anyone heard or seen this?

[DEPUTYDAWG]

So, you're ok now with "post-analysis" and what you've been calling finger-pointing?

Just checking. ;)

Now that help is arriving, I think we can expect some attempts at revisionist history and I think many of us will forget in time just how bad it really was, and truly how events unfolded. I think it's important to talk it through as it happens. It helps us remember. IMO.

Dara, at first I added a sentence that said, "This may be considered finger-pointing, LOL" And then I took it out, as I was afraid it would start snide comments. I knew I was at risk for stating what I did about the State level. I'm trying hard to remain neutral, I really am. I've been trying to post legitimate information, maybe y'all don't care about it. Then I put in my opinion, and I guess I'm going to be eating my words.

I have agreed with you a lot, and some of your articles, etc. have been both interesting and informative. I just hate throwing a lot of blame around in the middle of a crisis, when we don't have all the facts, etc. I can fling with the best of them later!

Y'all carry on...

[GonzoReiter]

Live Blog, Web Cam, Chat from Bourbon Street (http://mgno.com/)

[SieSie]

Just on FOX News, reported that 50-100 firefighters, families and children are stuck in the BellSouth building - unable to leave because they are being fired on by snipers.

I just don't understand what they have to gain by not allowing others to be rescued. The looting mentality was bad enough, but I just don't comprehend this.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I just don't understand what they have to gain by not allowing others to be rescued. The looting mentality was bad enough, but I just don't comprehend this.

These aren't people desparate for assistance or evacuation, are they?

[Dara]

Dara, at first I added a sentence that said, "This may be considered finger-pointing, LOL" And then I took it out, as I was afraid it would start snide comments. I knew I was at risk for stating what I did about the State level. I'm trying hard to remain neutral, I really am. I've been trying to post legitimate information, maybe y'all don't care about it. Then I put in my opinion, and I guess I'm going to be eating my words. I definitely don't want to make you eat your words and I don't want either of us to be snide. I used the winky icon hoping you'd get that I was mostly trying to point out that you were doing what most of us have been. It's great that you're trying to be neutral. I think there's the misconception that those who are saying there are big problems here are somehow faulting specific people (or faulting them without reason). I think the words "bashing" and "fingerpointing" are overused and misused in general to trivialize and/or discredit people's posts (that is not directed at you in specific).

I will say I think the President should have stepped in earlier and that unfortunately I am not surprised. I have big concerns about Michael Brown of FEMA. In both cases, I feel there is enough documentation to justify my opinion (which is just my opinion). I have agreed with you a lot, and some of your articles, etc. have been both interesting and informative. I just hate throwing a lot of blame around in the middle of a crisis, when we don't have all the facts, etc. I can fling with the best of them later! Thank you for the nice words. I can say a hearty "backatcha." I understand. But, really, I think most of us have just been acknowledging the problem without blaming anyone specifically. I haven't known who to blame (except as stated above), but I know there are people who screwed up. I don't see myself as fllinging blame. But I do think there will be adjustments to the history of this crisis and I want to be able to go back and say, "Hey, wait a second, the mayor said they needed troops on Tuesday morning (thanks to whoever posted that).

You say you are trying to be neutral. I think I'm pretty neutral, too. My opinions are formed by what I have seen and heard and read. If I think Bush (for example) screwed up, it's not because I am not neutral; it's because based on what I know I think he screwed up. Now, if I weren't neutral or maybe objective, I'd be agreeing with those criticizing his comments that the response was "unacceptable." He's catching heat for that, with some saying he's disrespecting those who did go in and help. I don't think he meant that. I think he meant what has happened so far isn't enough, and it wasn't done right. I hope he's big enough to see his own culpalbility, and he may even mean that as well. He didn't single anyone out, and I can't stand the man, but I do NOT think he would criticize those who have tried to go in and save lives.

Sorry that's so long.

[Dara]

Dara, I heard from a co-worker who had been watching the news here (I missed it), that a general stepped off a helicopter and met with the mayor. The general cursed worse than the mayor, but the mayor said something about thank goodness help had arrived in the form of someone who could take command.

True or not? Anyone heard or seen this?
I haven't heard it. I'm going to see if I can find a reference.

Just to clarify: I don't have a problem with anyone cursing. I would. I am. And I'm not there. I find the mayor's emotion and frustration to be appropriate. When I read that he broke down in tears, I wanted to share that, because he was the single consistent voice that has spoken for the victims and asked for what they needed, and imo he went largely unheard.

[SieSie]

These aren't people desparate for assistance or evacuation, are they?

DeputyDawg - I understand that they're desperate for assistance and wanting to evacuate, I never questioned that. I'm sure the anger and frustration is very high.... I don't, however, understand why someone who is desperate for help would be shooting at other people who also want help. They aren't able to go help rescue people who want rescued if they are afraid for their lives.

[tipper]

Don't know if this has already been posted.


Foreign aid pours in to help Katrina victims
Fri Sep 2, 2005 3:22 PM ET
Printer Friendly (javascript:commonPopup('/PrinterFriendlyPopup.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=uri%3a2005-09-02T192131Z_01_N02552447_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-KATRINA-FOREIGN.XML', 540, 525, 1, 'printerPopup')) | Email Article (javascript:commonPopup('/EmailPopup.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=uri%3a2005-09-02T192131Z_01_N02552447_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-KATRINA-FOREIGN.XML&link=investing/FinanceArticle.aspx', 540, 600, 1, 'emailPopup')) | Reprints (javascript:commonPopup('http://www.icopyright.com/3.5398?icx_id=uri%3a2005-09-02T192131Z_01_N02552447_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-KATRINA-FOREIGN.XML', 580, 760, 1, 'purchasePopup')) | RSShttp://i.today.reuters.com/news/images/iconRSS.gif (http://today.reuters.com/rss/default.aspx)
http://i.today.reuters.com/investing/images/clear.gif By Sue Pleming

WASHINGTON, Sept 2 (Reuters) - The United States has not actively sought foreign aid following Hurricane Katrina but dozens of countries lined up on Friday to help with rescue efforts, from hefty cash donations to tents and helicopters.

The State Department said more than 40 governments and international organizations had made generous offers and the list was growing by the hour after Katrina devastated New Orleans and other parts of the U.S. Gulf Coast, killing hundreds and possibly thousands of people.

"We are not formally requesting assistance but anything that can materially benefit folks in need is something that we will accept," said a State Department official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Countries were very generous after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States but officials said they could not remember this kind of outpouring of sympathy and aid for any other natural disaster on U.S. soil.

Singapore sent helicopters, Israel offered medical teams within 24 hours and European oil producers responded to a formal U.S. request to release gasoline stocks.

Help was not limited to allies and opponents of U.S. policy such as Cuba and Venezuela put aside their political differences to join the chorus of nations offering help.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez offered to send cheap fuel but the State Department said a decision had not been made on whether to accept this offer.

Poor nations that usually turn to the United States for assistance, such as Honduras, offered to become donors as did Sri Lanka and Indonesia, countries that benefited from U.S. assistance after last year's Indian Ocean tsunami.
[...]

[T'sNana]

I have goosebumps!! Maybe we can even make new friends or at least agree to disagree with some countries and be civil! Thanks! Don't know if this has already been posted.


Foreign aid pours in to help Katrina victims
Fri Sep 2, 2005 3:22 PM ET
Printer Friendly (javascript:commonPopup('/PrinterFriendlyPopup.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=uri%3a2005-09-02T192131Z_01_N02552447_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-KATRINA-FOREIGN.XML', 540, 525, 1, 'printerPopup')) | Email Article (javascript:commonPopup('/EmailPopup.aspx?type=bondsNews&storyID=uri%3a2005-09-02T192131Z_01_N02552447_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-KATRINA-FOREIGN.XML&link=investing/FinanceArticle.aspx', 540, 600, 1, 'emailPopup')) | Reprints (javascript:commonPopup('http://www.icopyright.com/3.5398?icx_id=uri%3a2005-09-02T192131Z_01_N02552447_RTRIDST_0_WEATHER-KATRINA-FOREIGN.XML', 580, 760, 1, 'purchasePopup')) | RSShttp://i.today.reuters.com/news/images/iconRSS.gif (http://today.reuters.com/rss/default.aspx)
http://i.today.reuters.com/investing/images/clear.gif By Sue Pleming

WASHINGTON, Sept 2 (Reuters) - The United States has not actively sought foreign aid following Hurricane Katrina but dozens of countries lined up on Friday to help with rescue efforts, from hefty cash donations to tents and helicopters.

The State Department said more than 40 governments and international organizations had made generous offers and the list was growing by the hour after Katrina devastated New Orleans and other parts of the U.S. Gulf Coast, killing hundreds and possibly thousands of people.

"We are not formally requesting assistance but anything that can materially benefit folks in need is something that we will accept," said a State Department official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Countries were very generous after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States but officials said they could not remember this kind of outpouring of sympathy and aid for any other natural disaster on U.S. soil.

Singapore sent helicopters, Israel offered medical teams within 24 hours and European oil producers responded to a formal U.S. request to release gasoline stocks.

Help was not limited to allies and opponents of U.S. policy such as Cuba and Venezuela put aside their political differences to join the chorus of nations offering help.

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez offered to send cheap fuel but the State Department said a decision had not been made on whether to accept this offer.

Poor nations that usually turn to the United States for assistance, such as Honduras, offered to become donors as did Sri Lanka and Indonesia, countries that benefited from U.S. assistance after last year's Indian Ocean tsunami.
[...]

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I will say I think the President should have stepped in earlier and that unfortunately I am not surprised. I have big concerns about Michael Brown of FEMA. In both cases, I feel there is enough documentation to justify my opinion (which is just my opinion). Thank you for the nice words. I can say a hearty "backatcha." I understand. But, really, I think most of us have just been acknowledging the problem without blaming anyone specifically. I haven't known who to blame (except as stated above), but I know there are people who screwed up. I don't see myself as fllinging blame. But I do think there will be adjustments to the history of this crisis and I want to be able to go back and say, "Hey, wait a second, the mayor said they needed troops on Tuesday morning (thanks to whoever posted that).

You say you are trying to be neutral. I think I'm pretty neutral, too. My opinions are formed by what I have seen and heard and read. If I think Bush (for example) screwed up, it's not because I am not neutral; it's because based on what I know I think he screwed up. Now, if I weren't neutral or maybe objective, I'd be agreeing with those criticizing his comments that the response was "unacceptable." He's catching heat for that, with some saying he's disrespecting those who did go in and help. I don't think he meant that. I think he meant what has happened so far isn't enough, and it wasn't done right. I hope he's big enough to see his own culpalbility, and he may even mean that as well. He didn't single anyone out, and I can't stand the man, but I do NOT think he would criticize those who have tried to go in and save lives.



:blowkiss:

Fair enough. I guess I figure there will be PLENTY of blame to go around, from the local city level on up to Bush and his Admin. (For example, I don't think the Mayor and his Admin did such a swell job...and they live there! They should know much more of the ins and outs of the City's resources, transportation sources/manpower, utilities, hospital capacities - and lack thereof - than feds sitting/planning in D.C. And then on the other side of that, I feel sorry for the Mayor and his staff, as I'm sure they've asked for years for improvements, more resources, etc. and of course, there's always the lack of funds. So, he's stuck. And I don't know about NO itself, but in many cities, the Mayor is basically a figure head with not a lot of power. Who's the City Manager? And, I could go on and on up the ladder to FEMA, etc. and Bush.) But, I don't know, really, who did/didn't do what and when, so I am interested to see/hear all about it when things mellow over the course of some time.

I understand we've all got opinions and I'm sorry if I got frustrated earlier in the day. I'm just as frustrated as y'all, probably.

I'll probably write more later, but gotta go for now.

Thanks

[Beyond Belief]

Fox is announcing something about firefighters and their families being held hostage. Did anybody hear what this was about? Sorry I just didn't get what they were talking about or where.

[shopper]

I have a question. WTH are there still thousands outside the Superdome on that ramp? This is the second full day in a row (or has it been longer now) that they've been sitting there. Where are the buses, aren't some supposed to be on the way? Have all the people at the convention center been bussed out? I'm confused now, sorry.

[Dara]

:blowkiss:

Fair enough. I guess I figure there will be PLENTY of blame to go around, from the local city level on up to Bush and his Admin. (For example, I don't think the Mayor and his Admin did such a swell job...and they live there! They should know much more of the ins and outs of the City's resources, transportation sources/manpower, utilities, hospital capacities - and lack thereof - than feds sitting/planning in D.C. And then on the other side of that, I feel sorry for the Mayor and his staff, as I'm sure they've asked for years for improvements, more resources, etc. and of course, there's always the lack of funds. So, he's stuck. And I don't know about NO itself, but in many cities, the Mayor is basically a figure head with not a lot of power. Who's the City Manager? And, I could go on and on up the ladder to FEMA, etc. and Bush.) But, I don't know, really, who did/didn't do what and when, so I am interested to see/hear all about it when things mellow over the course of some time.

I understand we've all got opinions and I'm sorry if I got frustrated earlier in the day. I'm just as frustrated as y'all, probably.

I'll probably write more later, but gotta go for now.

Thanks
:blowkiss:

Hey, I disagree with you fairly often, but every time I do, I seriously consider your point of view because I respect you. I learn from you. I really hope as more information comes out, we can continue to discuss this. For example, I'm reacting emotionally to the mayor because of his pleas, but you bring in some points I haven't given much thought to about him and his office.

Have a good evening!

[Dara]

Fox is announcing something about firefighters and their families being held hostage. Did anybody hear what this was about? Sorry I just didn't get what they were talking about or where.
Oh, no!

I still can't find out what happened to the prison guard and his family who were held hostage in one of the prisons (I think this happened Tuesday). Does anyone have an update on them?

[Beyond Belief]

St Bernard Parish Snipers outside the building of the firefighters.

[concernedperson]

I haven't heard it. I'm going to see if I can find a reference.

Just to clarify: I don't have a problem with anyone cursing. I would. I am. And I'm not there. I find the mayor's emotion and frustration to be appropriate. When I read that he broke down in tears, I wanted to share that, because he was the single consistent voice that has spoken for the victims and asked for what they needed, and imo he went largely unheard.

It was me that posted about Mayor Nagin. I believe he was truly aware early on and so stated. The rest of the politicos were doing their normal, deny the problem and things will work out. I was also a doomsayer early on if anyone remembers.

I have been cursing like the devil....words I haven't used in years. I also have been crying a lot. I have had giant arguments with my daughter because she was taking the middle road and then the next day everything we talked about happened.It is the frustration when no one listens. Now we will get the problems solved throughout the south....people are listening.

[Dara]

It was me that posted about Mayor Nagin. I believe he was truly aware early on and so stated. The rest of the politicos were doing their normal, deny the problem and things will work out. I was also a doomsayer early on if anyone remembers.

I have been cursing like the devil....words I haven't used in years. I also have been crying a lot. I have had giant arguments with my daughter because she was taking the middle road and then the next day everything we talked about happened.It is the frustration when no one listens. Now we will get the problems solved throughout the south....people are listening.
I remember!

I was out earlier and the radio station was doing their daily theme lunch hour. So, first I heard "Yellow Moon" by the Neville Brothers, then "Home" by Marc Broussard, and then I realized they were doing a tribute to music from LA artists. And it just hit me and I sat in my car and cried. I wasn't crying about the songs or anything in specific. Just the whole thing.

[mysteriew]

More than 7,600 prisoners were transported out of the New Orleans (search) area to state prisons and local jails, signaling the start of major changes for the criminal justice system in Louisiana.

The district attorney's office in New Orleans is near the jail where thousands of inmates were still being evacuated Thursday
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168320,00.html

[concernedperson]

More than 7,600 prisoners were transported out of the New Orleans (search) area to state prisons and local jails, signaling the start of major changes for the criminal justice system in Louisiana.

The district attorney's office in New Orleans is near the jail where thousands of inmates were still being evacuated Thursday
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168320,00.html

David Dugas was a childhood friend of mine. He is pretty good on the judicial level. Maybe they should send them all to Angola.....the hell on earth prison.

As an aside these traveling looters with automatics on a truck that caused NOPD to turn in their badges should be shot on sight.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

DeputyDawg - I understand that they're desperate for assistance and wanting to evacuate, I never questioned that. I'm sure the anger and frustration is very high.... I don't, however, understand why someone who is desperate for help would be shooting at other people who also want help. They aren't able to go help rescue people who want rescued if they are afraid for their lives.


Oh SieSie, I think maybe you took my comment the wrong way...I was agreeing with you. If you took it the other (sarcastic) way, I am sorry! I haven't been very good at expressing myself here today :slap:

No, I meant it that those who have the time, capability and means to be snipers and shooting at rescue workers and aid, REALLY do not seem to be desperate for aid. Obviously the copters are around/above them, and rather than flagging them down begging for a drop of water supply or food, they're making a conscious choice of making them retreat, so others who are law-abiding, desperate citizens can't get help.

Sorry if I was unclear earlier...DD

[DEPUTYDAWG]

:blowkiss:

Hey, I disagree with you fairly often, but every time I do, I seriously consider your point of view because I respect you. I learn from you. I really hope as more information comes out, we can continue to discuss this. For example, I'm reacting emotionally to the mayor because of his pleas, but you bring in some points I haven't given much thought to about him and his office.

Have a good evening!

Fairly often? Dang, say it ain't so! LOL

I share the same sentiments with you, as above.

ETA: For example, you comment about the disparity between the private hospital and the county-run hospital. OMG, I'm TRYING to figure out WHY there would be such a disparity as to why one can be evacuated so much more efficiently than the other...but unless it's sheer number of patients and staff, or patient/staff ratios, I don't know how it could be justified. Anyone know? Is one considerably larger than the other?

[Details]

I'm thinking those snipers don't want rescue or assistance. Sounds like it's the gangs, and they think they've got a pretty nice situation right now - they can steal, murder, rape, do whatever they want - the city is theirs. Gangs always look at their territories as their property, they figure now they can have it without the competition from the government. I really think they like this. That's why they fire on rescuers and anyone governmental - to keep them out.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I'm thinking those snipers don't want rescue or assistance. Sounds like it's the gangs, and they think they've got a pretty nice situation right now - they can steal, murder, rape, do whatever they want - the city is theirs. Gangs always look at their territories as their property, they figure now they can have it without the competition from the government. I really think they like this. That's why they fire on rescuers and anyone governmental - to keep them out.

So true, so true...

[Dara]

Ted Koppel asked Michael Brown some tough questions. Anyone see it? I found video of it here (http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Nightline-Fema.mov). Wow.

[Beyond Belief]

the story being told on Greta on Fox right now is describing how a man from NO took a school bus, picked up 80 people and they chipped in to pay for gas and drove to Houston. This guy is a hero. A man taking responsibility. How many school buses are sitting there that can be used to move these people?

[SieSie]

Oh SieSie, I think maybe you took my comment the wrong way...I was agreeing with you. If you took it the other (sarcastic) way, I am sorry! I haven't been very good at expressing myself here today :slap:

No, I meant it that those who have the time, capability and means to be snipers and shooting at rescue workers and aid, REALLY do not seem to be desperate for aid. Obviously the copters are around/above them, and rather than flagging them down begging for a drop of water supply or food, they're making a conscious choice of making them retreat, so others who are law-abiding, desperate citizens can't get help.

Sorry if I was unclear earlier...DD

:blowkiss: Oh DD, I'm so sorry I misunderstood your reply - I gotcha now! (We need a winking smiley) Thanks for the PM, too! Take care.

[Dara]

Fairly often? Dang, say it ain't so! LOL

I share the same sentiments with you, as above.

ETA: For example, you comment about the disparity between the private hospital and the county-run hospital. OMG, I'm TRYING to figure out WHY there would be such a disparity as to why one can be evacuated so much more efficiently than the other...but unless it's sheer number of patients and staff, or patient/staff ratios, I don't know how it could be justified. Anyone know? Is one considerably larger than the other?
Sanjay Gupta is updating on that. He said they watched from Charity Hospital as non-essential personnel were evacuated from Tulane (which was fully evacuated yesterday). At that time, there were patients being manually ventilated (meaning they should have been on ventilators, but there wasn't power...it's a poor substitute from what I understand, since a person has to actively squeeze a bag). When Sanjay left, this afternoon, there still over 200 patients at Charity this afternoon. He says he can't imagine why non-essential personnel got taken away from Tulane while critical patients were left at Charity.

They showed video. It's terrible. And Michael Brown told us how well the hospital evacuations were going.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

the story being told on Greta on Fox right now is describing how a man from NO took a school bus, picked up 80 people and they chipped in to pay for gas and drove to Houston. This guy is a hero. A man taking responsibility. How many school buses are sitting there that can be used to move these people?

I haven't seen the news yet, oh my...how ingenious! ("took" a bus - legally or not?!LOL) Re school buses - here in TX, the State's School Bus Administrator has been coordinating donations of buses and school bus drivers since Wednesday...that's a different service than I work, so I don't have any idea how many they've coordinated already, but I do know from cruising through the front lobby, that they're getting a lot of calls, which is a good sign. I would bet that many we've seen on TV the last 2 days are Texas buses. But at this point, yeah, start using some available LA buses.

About time for me to get off-line and go watch the news!

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Sanjay Gupta is updating on that. He said they watched from Charity Hospital as non-essential personnel were evacuated from Tulane (which was fully evacuated yesterday). At that time, there were patients being manually ventilated (meaning they should have been on ventilators, but there wasn't power...it's a poor substitute from what I understand, since a person has to actively squeeze a bag). When Sanjay left, this afternoon, there still over 200 patients at Charity this afternoon. He says he can't imagine why non-essential personnel got taken away from Tulane while critical patients were left at Charity.

They showed video. It's terrible. And Michael Brown told us how well the hospital evacuations were going.


Oh boy. :waitasec:

[kgeaux]

the story being told on Greta on Fox right now is describing how a man from NO took a school bus, picked up 80 people and they chipped in to pay for gas and drove to Houston. This guy is a hero. A man taking responsibility. How many school buses are sitting there that can be used to move these people?


This was a GREAT story. For those of you who missed it: The doors to the offices were blown open, he walked in, picked up the keys and drove the bus off the property. He had never driven a bus before! He'd stop and pick up people as he saw them in need, he had a bus full by the time he drove up to the AstroDome! They were an "unauthorized" bus load of people, so they didn't get into the AstroDome right away, but the Red Cross finally got them all in. The bus is parked out on the lot, having served its noble purpose. Greta asked him if he saw any of those he rescued in the dome and what did he say when he saw them? He said, "I tell them I love them." What a great story about the human spirit!

[Dara]

Bill O'Reilly talking to someone who is supervising medic services in NOLA. He says all the patients are finally out of Charity Hospital (and I believe all hospitals), but there are employees barricaded on an upper floor, hiding from drug-seekers who are shooting, and starting IVs on each other to stay alive. They need troops at Memorial Hospital, too.

[Casshew]

Thats a great story kgeaux! something to smile about

[Casshew]

Grrrrr.. pictures like this drive me nuts!

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/vert.aid.distro.ap.jpg

These people in one long line up - with soldiers standing around... why not have 10 lines ++ ?

[rollerbladr123]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050903/ts_nm/mayhem_dc_1

Murder and mayhem in New Orleans' miserable shelter
By Mark Egan 5 minutes ago



Quote 1 NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - With the rotors of President Bush's helicopter sounding overhead, New Orleans' poor and downtrodden recounted tales of murder, rape, death threats and near starvation since Hurricane Katrina wrecked this city.

More at link....

[Shadow205]

Did anyone else hear the story tonight on FOX about the nursing home? They found everyone dead. They said there were 80 some patients and all were dead. I have searched for a link to the story but havn't found anything.

[Dara]

Did anyone else hear the story tonight on FOX about the nursing home? They found everyone dead. They said there were 80 some patients and all were dead. I have searched for a link to the story but havn't found anything.
I heard it. On Larry King Live. They said it's believed they all drowned in the first storm surge. Did they say 80 patients?

[Shadow205]

I heard it. On Larry King Live. They said it's believed they all drowned in the first storm surge. Did they say 80 patients?
That is what I heard Dara. Sad.

[tybee204]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050903/ts_nm/mayhem_dc_1

Murder and mayhem in New Orleans' miserable shelter
By Mark Egan 5 minutes ago



Quote 1 NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - With the rotors of President Bush's helicopter sounding overhead, New Orleans' poor and downtrodden recounted tales of murder, rape, death threats and near starvation since Hurricane Katrina wrecked this city.

More at link....

That article is totally devastating. Keeping those people locked in that Dome with no help or protection is criminal. Heads need to roll from the top to the bottem.

[Dara]

That is what I heard Dara. Sad.
Wow. Oh, and I didn't mean I didn't believe you about the number of patients. It was more like, Oh, no, did they say 80? I'm just getting progressively horrified. I thought I was maxed out. I watch all day, then my husband comes home and my friends get off work and I catch them up.

[rollerbladr123]

That article is totally devastating. Keeping those people locked in that Dome with no help or protection is criminal. Heads need to roll from the top to the bottem.
I agree Tybee- that article just made me sick !!

[Buzzm1]

I saw the head of the Army Corps of Engineers interviewed on PBS, and his lead General had estimated it would take anywhere from a month to to two and a half months to pump out New Orleans. They are still weighing what would be the best approach. One of the considerations is, with the Lake level dropping they may breach part of the levee and allow the water from the "New Orleans Basin" to drain back into the Lake. They have to weigh that approach against the odds that the River (and Lake) could rise if storms came through, and that would defeat that approach. It's going to be years before New Orleans is inhabitable again. The refugees are going to be living elsewhere for a long time.

[Mabel]

Bill O'Reilly talking to someone who is supervising medic services in NOLA. He says all the patients are finally out of Charity Hospital (and I believe all hospitals), but there are employees barricaded on an upper floor, hiding from drug-seekers who are shooting, and starting IVs on each other to stay alive. They need troops at Memorial Hospital, too.

This contradicts what I heard tonight, that the patients at Charity Hospital are still waiting to be evacuated. I hope what you heard is correct.

[tybee204]

Apparantly The Department of Homeland Security has been blocking The Red Cross from extending any services in New Orleans. The less then brilliant consept of Homeland Security is that if the Red Cross provides food and other services to the starving victims within the City they wont want to evacuate that cesspool of human waste and dead bodies.

Can we say FUBAR!!!!

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4524

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

[Buzzm1]

This contradicts what I heard tonight, that the patients at Charity Hospital are still waiting to be evacuated. I hope what you heard is correct.here's an update--everyone has been evacuated from Charity

New Orleans Hospital Evacuations Finish

Two of New Orleans' most troubled hospitals were evacuated late Friday after desperate doctors spent days making tough choices about which patients got dwindling supplies of food, water and medicines.

Rescuers finally made it into Charity and University hospitals and evacuated all remaining patients and staff.

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050903/APA/509030532

[GonzoReiter]

US Senator David Vitter said that the death toll from Hurricane Katrina could top 10,000 in Louisiana alone.


"My guess is that it will start at 10,000, but that is only a guess," Vitter said, adding that he was not basing his remarks on any official death toll or body count.

Vitter, a Louisiana Republican, also called for the immediate deployment of regular US combat troops in New Orleans, saying the build-up of National Guard troops was too slow to quickly restore order.

Such a step would require Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco to formally request the dispatch of federal army soldiers, a highly unusual step.

Blanco said on Thursday that she had asked for 40,000 troops, the majority of which are National Guard units from Louisiana and elsewhere.

Five-thousand National Guard troops are expected to be on the ground in violence-wracked New Orleans by late Friday, military leaders said.

But Vitter said that timeline could be too slow, amid reports that bands of armed men are roaming the streets in the city, which is 80 percent submerged in floods brought in by a storm tide after the hurricane hit on Monday.

Vitter, speaking to reporters at the emergency response center in Baton Rouge, also said he gave the federal government a grade 'F' for its response to the disaster so far.

[Liz]

According to Dr. Gupta on Larry King Live, all the patients are not out of Charity Hospital. He quanitifed it by saying that some are left where they are due to their medical conditions.

[Mabel]

According to Dr. Gupta on Larry King Live, all the patients are not out of Charity Hospital. He quanitifed it by saying that some are left where they are due to their medical conditions.


The show that comes on after Larry King - sorry, I don't know the name because I usually switch channels when Larry comes on - said the same thing. The patients at Charity have not been evacuated... the nurses there watched from the roof with their critical patients while non-essential personel were evacuated from the private hospital across the street. Obviously someone has the story wrong. I don't think we'll ever know the truth.

[Liz]

Lou Dobbs, Mabel?

With poor and even no communication, maybe it isn't so surprising that this who rescue operation has been botched beyond belief.

[rollerbladr123]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050903/ap_on_re_us/katrina_superdome_hk1Guardsmen Halt Evacuation at Superdome By MARY FOSTER, Associated Press Writer
Quote 1 NEW ORLEANS - National Guard members halted the evacuation of the Superdome early Saturday after buses transporting the refugees of Hurricane Katrina stopped rolling. About 2,000 people remained in the stadium and could be there until Sunday, according to the Texas Air National Guard. They had hoped to evacuate the last of the crowd before dawn Saturday. Guard members said they were told only that the buses had stopped coming and to close down the area where the buses were loaded.

more at link....

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Re Charity Hospital last night on Fox, they were saying evacuations were halted/delayed due to the shootings in the area, and rescue workers could not go in....Sounds like CNN didn't mention that? I have no idea which one's right or wrong at this point. I just hope all will be out by the end of today.

[Dara]

Re Charity Hospital last night on Fox, they were saying evacuations were halted/delayed due to the shootings in the area, and rescue workers could not go in....Sounds like CNN didn't mention that? I have no idea which one's right or wrong at this point. I just hope all will be out by the end of today.
I think CNN had reported that earlier (or was it the day before...it's all running together). Then, last night, Sanjay Gupta said all patients were out, but caregivers weren't. Later, it seems he said they weren't. More conflicting info, but I found this CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.hospitals/index.html) dated this morning:



Evacuations at some New Orleans hospitals were expected to proceed Saturday, while conditions at the city's largest public hospital were reported to be deteriorating further.
As of Friday night, more than 200 patients remained at Charity Hospital, CNN Senior Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta reported.

The hospital has no power, no water and no food. Some patients are on ventilators being worked by hand pumps; the bodies of those who have died are being stored in stairwells, as the hospital's morgue is flooded. Two patients died on a ramp while waiting to be evacuated.


And, of course, this is after everyone, including the staff, got out of Tulane.

(and it said "Five of Tenet's other hospitals have been evacuated, except for one doctor remaining at Lindy Boggs Medical Center in New Orleans, who refuses to leave because staffers' pets are there, Campanini said." Awwww. I hope that doctor stays safe)

[Beyond Belief]

Roller,

Thanks for sharing that article.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I think CNN had reported that earlier (or was it the day before...it's all running together). Then, last night, Sanjay Gupta said all patients were out, but caregivers weren't. Later, it seems he said they weren't. More conflicting info, but I found this CNN article (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.hospitals/index.html) dated this morning:


And, of course, this is after everyone, including the staff, got out of Tulane.

(and it said "Five of Tenet's other hospitals have been evacuated, except for one doctor remaining at Lindy Boggs Medical Center in New Orleans, who refuses to leave because staffers' pets are there, Campanini said." Awwww. I hope that doctor stays safe)

Do we know who actually did the actual evacuating of the private hospitals? Was it outside assistance, or did the hospital itself start evacuating earlier, having a better evacuation procedure?

If I were to point fingers (haha, just kidding - I'm feel much better after sleeping!), I'd want to know: Did the private and county hospitals both start out on Tuesday morning in the same situation, and the private ones got all the outside evacuation assistance, while the county-run hospital didn't? Or, did the private hospital actually have a better plan in place, better staff/management? Also, still wondering about the sizes - were they similar? And, literally, geographic areas - was one in a better site to be evacuated, and one had more flooding problems? And at least in the last 1-2 days, it sounds as though Charity had more shootings to hamper their efforts than the other hospital.

I have no idea, just questions I have. Only when I have a better understanding to those questions (which, honestly, we may not know for a long time, as I don't believe everything on the media - would rather do research after the fact to compare the hospitals), then I may get fuming mad if there really is a disconnect.

[Dara]

I have the same questions, DeputyDawg. I just don't know. I keep looking for info, because no matter what, we need to know. I'm just so afraid when everyone who survived is fed and has had medical attention and another big story comes along, a smidge of apathy will settle in and we'll forget. And there have to be changes, both in policy/procedures and in personnel, imo. But unfortunately, without public outcry, I don't think we'll see much of either.

[Dara]

A reporter on CNN (Tom Foreman?) is saying that FEMA proudly told him before the hurricane hit that they had prepositioned supplies in trailers in an "arc of relief" around the Gulf Coast and would bring them in as early as Monday.

That sure didn't happen.

Also he said last year FEMA ran a hurricane scenario on a hypothetical hurricane named Pam. Said they knew the city could flood and that many would not or could not evacuate (he mentioned how many citizens don't have care, for example).

Hope we hear more about all this.

[rollerbladr123]

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09.htmlMore guns, buses, relief roll into city

Quote 1 New Orleans, or what's left of it, awoke Friday to discover that fire had been added to the array of pestilences - floodwaters, hunger, looting and mass death - that have beset the city since Hurricane Katrina's winds ripped it apart five days ago.

The plumes of smoke rising from locations on both sides of the river were offset by the belated arrival of long-promised National Guard units in a bid to further the evacuation and reverse the virtual anarchy that descended over the city as beleaguered and increasingly angry local officials begged for federal assistance.

Quote 2 If New Orleans was the epicenter of misery and chaos, reports from more remote suburbs revealed that the death and looting was not limited to the region's big city.

With unofficial death toll estimates rising into the thousands, State Sen. Walter Boasso said at least 100 corpses had been collected in St. Bernard Parish, 25 having been tethered together to keep them from floating away.

"We've had people lying in water in the attic for days," Boasso said of the continuing rescue effort.

more at link...

[Mabel]

Do we know who actually did the actual evacuating of the private hospitals? Was it outside assistance, or did the hospital itself start evacuating earlier, having a better evacuation procedure?

If I were to point fingers (haha, just kidding - I'm feel much better after sleeping!), I'd want to know: Did the private and county hospitals both start out on Tuesday morning in the same situation, and the private ones got all the outside evacuation assistance, while the county-run hospital didn't? Or, did the private hospital actually have a better plan in place, better staff/management? Also, still wondering about the sizes - were they similar? And, literally, geographic areas - was one in a better site to be evacuated, and one had more flooding problems? And at least in the last 1-2 days, it sounds as though Charity had more shootings to hamper their efforts than the other hospital.

I have no idea, just questions I have. Only when I have a better understanding to those questions (which, honestly, we may not know for a long time, as I don't believe everything on the media - would rather do research after the fact to compare the hospitals), then I may get fuming mad if there really is a disconnect.


Those are good questions. One thing I can tell you is that the hospitals are across the street from each other. They showed some of the staff at Charity on the roof with patients on stretchers watching while the last remaining staff was evacuated from Tulane.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Those are good questions. One thing I can tell you is that the hospitals are across the street from each other. They showed some of the staff at Charity on the roof with patients on stretchers watching while the last remaining staff was evaculated from Tulane.

Hmmmm, that just doesn't sound good, does it? I just don't know what to think right now...other than it's all so sad. :banghead:

ETA: Wow, across the street (read: canal now) from each other - wonder if they did any cross-hospital triage process? I would hope so, and would like to hear if anyone finds out at a later date....

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I have the same questions, DeputyDawg. I just don't know. I keep looking for info, because no matter what, we need to know. I'm just so afraid when everyone who survived is fed and has had medical attention and another big story comes along, a smidge of apathy will settle in and we'll forget. And there have to be changes, both in policy/procedures and in personnel, imo. But unfortunately, without public outcry, I don't think we'll see much of either.

Out of the probably thousands of stories there are from NO, this is one (for whatever reason, I don't know) that interests me, and I hope we don't forget in apathy. On a smaller-scale, this could be one "case study," if you will, that might have a chance of having some truth being flushed out later.

[SieSie]

The levees that protected the city from the Mississippi River and Lake Ponchartrain were partially redesigned and rebuilt to withstand a Force 3 hurricane. The ten-year project to build them up to that level was launched in 1965, but is still incomplete after 40 years. The portion of the levee that collapsed, however, was one that had been completed. The city and state governments took a continuing gamble since the 1960s that no stronger storm would happen to strike New Orleans. Eventually, the city was bound to lose; it was only a matter of time. Some critics would like to blame the disaster on the recent reduction of federal funds to the Army Corps of Engineers, but funds have been declining for nearly a decade. According to the Chicago Tribune, “Congress in 1999 authorized the corps to conduct a $12 million study to determine how much it would cost to protect New Orleans from a Category 5 hurricane, but the study isn’t scheduled to get under way until 2006.”
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=16582

I just can’t fathom why things become so complicated with politics. KISS – Keep It Simple Stupid. Instead of taking the $12 million dollars that was authorized to use to STUDY how much it would cost to protect NO from a Cat. 5 hurricane, take that same $12 million to JUST FIX IT. It’s been studied, they’ve known for years that it’s not strong enough to withstand anything more than a Cat. 3. Engineers have stated this. No studying needed – just re-build the levee stronger, build additional levee’s such as the Dutch have done.

Besides which, if this project was authorized in 1999, why wasn’t the study scheduled to get under way until 2006? What’s been the hold-up?

Also – DH just pointed out to me, that since the study hasn’t even started yet, the $12 million dollars should still be there – so get in there and get ‘er done! Screw the study, use that money to help these people re-build some semblance of a life.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Besides which, if this project was authorized in 1999, why wasn’t the study scheduled to get under way until 2006? What’s been the hold-up?

Also – DH just pointed out to me, that since the study hasn’t even started yet, the $12 million dollars should still be there – so get in there and get ‘er done! Screw the study, use that money to help these people re-build some semblance of a life.


Yep!!! No study needed now, we know the results of a Cat 4...I'd say the money should be up for the taking!

[rollerbladr123]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/hurricane_katrinaNew Orleans Left to the Dead and Dying

Quote 1
By ALLEN G. BREED, Associated Press Writer 17 minutes ago



NEW ORLEANS - The last bedraggled refugees were rescued from the Superdome on Saturday and the convention center was all but cleared, leaving the heart of New Orleans to the dead and dying, the elderly and frail stranded too many days without food, water or medical care.

Quote 2 No one knows how many were killed by Hurricane Katrina's floods and how many more succumbed waiting to be rescued. But the bodies are everywhere: hidden in attics, floating among the ruined city, crumpled on wheelchairs, abandoned on highways

Quote 3 Gov. Kathleen Blanco said Saturday that she expected the death toll to reach the thousands. And Craig Vanderwagen, rear admiral of the U.S. Public Health Service, said one morgue alone, at a St. Gabriel prison, expected 1,000 to 2,000 bodies.

more at link...

[Dara]

Per Christiane Amanpour--as of now, none of the many offers of foreign aid has been accepted. She's pointed out that criticism of the slow/lack of response is international. She said we've all seen food drops take place quickly after disasters. Why not here and now?

CNN

[concernedperson]

Just saw an interview with Mayor Nagin on CNN. When asked about his priority right now he said that it was getting the firemen and police out of the city. He said they are tramatized and need psychological and physical medical attention right away and the Baton Rouge hospitals were full. He confirmed that there has already been 2 suicides within the police department.

He said he was running into bureaucratic snaffews with FEMA but he indicated he would pay for it himself and worry about the money later.

[Casshew]

He said they are tramatized and need psychological and physical medical attention Tom Cruise will send them vitamins

[tipper]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/hurricane_katrina[...]
Quote 3 Gov. Kathleen Blanco said Saturday that she expected the death toll to reach the thousands.
more at link...
As usual she's a day late and a dollar short. People have been saying that since last weekend.

[SieSie]

Tom Cruise will send them vitamins
:clap: :bang: :banghead:
Good one, Cass!!!

[Buzzm1]

The levees that protected the city from the Mississippi River and Lake Ponchartrain were partially redesigned and rebuilt to withstand a Force 3 hurricane. The ten-year project to build them up to that level was launched in 1965, but is still incomplete after 40 years. The portion of the levee that collapsed, however, was one that had been completed. The city and state governments took a continuing gamble since the 1960s that no stronger storm would happen to strike New Orleans. Eventually, the city was bound to lose; it was only a matter of time. Some critics would like to blame the disaster on the recent reduction of federal funds to the Army Corps of Engineers, but funds have been declining for nearly a decade. According to the Chicago Tribune, “Congress in 1999 authorized the corps to conduct a $12 million study to determine how much it would cost to protect New Orleans from a Category 5 hurricane, but the study isn’t scheduled to get under way until 2006.”
http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=16582

I just can’t fathom why things become so complicated with politics. KISS – Keep It Simple Stupid. Instead of taking the $12 million dollars that was authorized to use to STUDY how much it would cost to protect NO from a Cat. 5 hurricane, take that same $12 million to JUST FIX IT. It’s been studied, they’ve known for years that it’s not strong enough to withstand anything more than a Cat. 3. Engineers have stated this. No studying needed – just re-build the levee stronger, build additional levee’s such as the Dutch have done.

Besides which, if this project was authorized in 1999, why wasn’t the study scheduled to get under way until 2006? What’s been the hold-up?

Also – DH just pointed out to me, that since the study hasn’t even started yet, the $12 million dollars should still be there – so get in there and get ‘er done! Screw the study, use that money to help these people re-build some semblance of a life.SieSie, I heard one estimate to rebuild the levees to withstand a Category 5 Hurricane; that estimate was $30 billion. They need to do a study, because there are many factors that play into the levee system. They starightened the Mississippi River some years ago, and destroyed huge wetlands which were some of the protection for New Orleans. It isn't just a matter of going in and rebuilding the levees.

[rollerbladr123]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050904/ap_on_re_us/hurricane_katrina_49New Orleans Begins Grisly Cleanup
Quote 1 NEW ORLEANS - With the last weary refugees rescued from the Superdome and convention center, New Orleans turned its attention Sunday to gathering up and counting the dead across a ghastly landscape awash in perhaps thousands of corpses

Quote 2
No one knows how many people were killed by Hurricane Katrina and how many more succumbed waiting to be rescued. But the bodies are everywhere: hidden in attics, floating in the ruined city, crumpled in wheelchairs, abandoned on highways.

"I think it's evident it's in the thousands," Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt said Sunday on CNN, echoing predictions by city and state officials last week about the death toll.

more at link

[Nore]

Re Charity Hospital last night on Fox, they were saying evacuations were halted/delayed due to the shootings in the area, and rescue workers could not go in....Sounds like CNN didn't mention that? I have no idea which one's right or wrong at this point. I just hope all will be out by the end of today.
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Our hospitals in Cleveland are going to recieve rescued ill persons. Plans are for University ho