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Goody
09-03-2005, 03:43 AM
There are plenty of things that changed just before the murders, those out of the ordinary things that police look for. I had a list on another board but am too lazy to go find it now.

For starters though, you have:
1. suicide threat one month before the murders
2. hiring of a maid just two days before the murders after going without one for months
3. bringing all of her jewelry downstairs to show to the maid (to see if the maid knew of anyone who might want to buy it?)
4. Telling the maid she needed to raise $10,000 which was the same amount as the boys' life insurance policies.
5. being on the diet pill Fenphen for too long (she shouldn't have been on it at all)
6. Therapy after the suicide with confusing details (pretty much skated over at the trial)
7. Depression (possibly PPD)
8. Sending Dana home (Dana says it was her idea to go home so there are conflicting stories there)
8. The Jaguar breakdown coupled with the loss of her Pathfinder and her feeling like a caged animal without it
9. Boys dumping out the hottub water, upsetting both parents
10. Darlie and the boys sleeping downstairs with Darin and Drake out of ear shot of the downstairs
11. Them taking the biggest draw they ever had out of the company just a couple of weeks before.

Becba
09-03-2005, 03:57 AM
There are plenty of things that changed just before the murders, those out of the ordinary things that police look for. I had a list on another board but am too lazy to go find it now.

For starters though, you have:
1. suicide threat one month before the murders
2. hiring of a maid just two days before the murders after going without one for months
3. bringing all of her jewelry downstairs to show to the maid (to see if the maid knew of anyone who might want to buy it?)
4. Telling the maid she needed to raise $10,000 which was the same amount as the boys' life insurance policies.
5. being on the diet pill Fenphen for too long (she shouldn't have been on it at all)
6. Therapy after the suicide with confusing details (pretty much skated over at the trial)
7. Depression (possibly PPD)
8. Sending Dana home (Dana says it was her idea to go home so there are conflicting stories there)
8. The Jaguar breakdown coupled with the loss of her Pathfinder and her feeling like a caged animal without it
9. Boys dumping out the hottub water, upsetting both parents
10. Darlie and the boys sleeping downstairs with Darin and Drake out of ear shot of the downstairs
11. Them taking the biggest draw they ever had out of the company just a couple of weeks before.
Nice list. I wouldn't call them all "changes" but I can't think of a better word.
All indicate or possibly lead to murder.
The emotional stressors alone would not lead me to murder so much as when you add the need for money, the $10,000 figure being brought up and such.
Sleeping downstairs is an indication of possible preplanning.
Good job with the list.

Goody
09-03-2005, 03:57 PM
Nice list. I wouldn't call them all "changes" but I can't think of a better word.
.Well, by changes I mean things out of the ordinary or things not in the normal routine. Police look for those types of things when first investigating a case because of the old where there is smoke,there is probably a fire adage.

I mean, what do you think when a wife is reported missing and you learn she is a doctor's wife, lives in an upscale neighborhood, is well respected, a good mother and a good wife, then you hear that the good doctor has a girlfriend? RED FLAG. That day he reported late to the office. CHANGE IN ROUTINE. Beginning to sound like murder.

Sure enough, a few days later her body turns up and the girl friend is telling cops he had talked of what life would be like without the old ball and chain his wife had become. Changes in routine are really important. They often tell cops where to sniff.

Darlie has a whole list of changes near and just before these murders. If they had just been going about life as usual, we probably wouldn't be seeing any of them and there wouldn't be any doubt that she was innocent. Cases that involve family members as both the victim and suspect almost always show changes like this. Maybe not as many as this case, but certainly enough changes are there to cause a good detective's nose to twitch.

HeartofTexas
09-04-2005, 02:19 PM
Great list, Goody! You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of this case.

Perhaps you could call them "potential triggers"?

I've racked my brain trying to add something to your list and all I can think of is Darin applying for a loan (twice?) and being turned down? Money was definitely an issue with them because they were both quite impulsive when it came to buying toys and baubles. I always dismissed the $10,000 in insurance money on the boys as NOT being a motivator since anyone with good sense knows it normally costs more than that for a funeral. However, your reminder re asking the maid re $10,000 sure does make the $10,000 in insurance policies seem more enticing. Darlie may have been too young or too unknowledgeable to think about funeral costs. Still, as much as I know she did commit the murders, I have so much trouble thinking she did it for a mere $10,000... so usually decide she did it out of a fit of anger.

Jeana (DP)
09-04-2005, 04:14 PM
Great list, Goody! You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of this case.


Isn't she awesome?? :D :D

Goody
09-05-2005, 12:07 AM
Great list, Goody! You never cease to amaze me with your knowledge of this case..
Thanks, but I really feel I am a lightweight compared to some who have been around a lot longer than I have.


I've racked my brain trying to add something to your list and all I can think of is Darin applying for a loan (twice?) and being turned down? Money was definitely an issue with them because they were both quite impulsive when it came to buying toys and baubles...
It all kind of falls into the financial stresses. There are several things in that area of interest. The landlord of the shop had been trying to collect his rent unsuccessfully (at the time of the murders), Darin had not been very successful in getting slow paying clients to come up with his money, and Basia claimed he was padding bills (charging for services not rendered). A lot of his work was for gov agencies, I think.

Then there were the trips Darlie wanted to take. Most importantly. I think, was her trip to Cancun with Mercedes. I think Darlie was paying for that, maybe for both of them to go, and she didn't want to admit she didn't have the money for it. Or maybe she was just so hellbent on going, she couldn't let it go. Whatever those trips were real big deals in my estimation. That is why the focus was on the $10,000, why she might have thought she could use the insurance money to go and maybe pay for the funerals later. Or maybe she thought she'd have them cremated and save most of the money for her own needs. That would mean she wasn't attracted by thoughts of fame and fortune, and probably had no idea the case would become so big. If so, that soon changed because she and Darin had to have been looking around for someone to market their story rights about the time she was arrested, 12 days after the murders (or was that 14?). Why? Because Darin and Darlie Kee signed a contract with SilverCreek Productions (I think it was) two days after Darlie's arrest, and then later they sold their story rights to CWB to pay for Darlie's lawyer.


I always dismissed the $10,000 in insurance money on the boys as NOT being a motivator since anyone with good sense knows it normally costs more than that for a funeral. However, your reminder re asking the maid re $10,000 sure does make the $10,000 in insurance policies seem more enticing. Darlie may have been too young or too unknowledgeable to think about funeral costs. Still, as much as I know she did commit the murders, I have so much trouble thinking she did it for a mere $10,000... so usually decide she did it out of a fit of anger.
It is really hard to figure why she did it because there are so many little things weaving through the period around the murders. I believe Darlie suffered from depression and I think she went into pretty deep periods and I believe it was related at least in part to the birth of Drake. I believe the diet pills irritated her fragile emotional state and probably contributed to the depression. A did all the financial issues and pressures of trying to live up to previously made committments and plans. I think maybe in the recesses of her mind that a plot to kill could have made perfect sense to her. Maybe it was impulsive or maybe just haphazard and not well thought out. Whatever, you have Darlie sitting around looking at insurance papers (I haven't given this much credit before), talking to maid about needing specifically the same amount as the insurance on the boys, a fight with Darin, etc. Sometimes what we process in our thoughts seems to make perfect sense until we say it out loud, then realize how outrageous or ridiculous it is. Maybe Darlie never said it out loud and then acted on it, thinking it made perfect sense. There is so much spinning around this girl, it is hard to tell. But it sure seems possible.

If she did it in a fit of anger, Devon must have been up and moving around shortly before he was attacked. So what did he do that sent her into that rage?

Goody
09-05-2005, 12:09 AM
Isn't she awesome?? :D :D
Awwwwwww, thanks, Jeana.:D I didn't know you cared. :woohoo:

CyberLaw
09-05-2005, 11:56 AM
No one will know why Darlie killed her family. We as normal people try to justify the unjustifable. But we know that people rationalize the stupid things in their own minds, by their own values, motivators, beliefs, etc.

We all read crime stories, when we hear why people do things and then feel completly justified, we just shake our heads.

I don't care why Darlie did it, even if she did tell, it would just leave you shaking your head in disbelief.

I look forward to the day that she is : Dead women walking........

Goody
09-05-2005, 01:39 PM
No one will know why Darlie killed her family. We as normal people try to justify the unjustifable. But we know that people rationalize the stupid things in their own minds, by their own values, motivators, beliefs, etc.

We all read crime stories, when we hear why people do things and then feel completly justified, we just shake our heads.

I don't care why Darlie did it, even if she did tell, it would just leave you shaking your head in disbelief.

I look forward to the day that she is : Dead women walking........
Motive is important because like it or not, Darlie is like many of us. She could be the lady next door, your sister-in-law's niece, the clerk in the neighborhood markert, etc. As long as we don't know why the Darlies of this world do what they do, our hands our tied to prevent the next one. So I think understanding...and we can understand motive even if the motive is not a strong enough reason to commit murder....understanding is important for many, many reasons outside of and beyond Darlie and the case itself.

I am not into the punishment as much as some, so seeing Darlie executed is not going to make my day. I do believe her crime justifies execution but I would be just as happy to see her with a long prison term where she could parole out in twenty years or so. Most women like Darlie will not reoffend. I just wouldn't want to see her off of death row without a full explanation in detail about what did happen that night and why. If Darin has any culpability in it, he should be punished as well.

HeartofTexas
09-05-2005, 02:31 PM
I agree, Goody. I don't feel a big need to see Darlie executed. I think her crime was horrific and almost beyond words but I think the commiting of her crimes was the result of a culmination of so many mitigating factors all coming together at the same time to produce the events of that night. I would like to see more money and attention paid to PP depression, as I think it was one of the factors that contributed to the murders. Texas has had more than its share of moms murdering their children, and most of them stem from some form of depression following the birth of a child. It may be because Texas also has one of the lowest-funded mental health organizations to help with these very problems. I think men paying more attention to their wives' mental health would be putting a big step forward, too.

Goody
09-05-2005, 02:57 PM
I agree, Goody. I don't feel a big need to see Darlie executed. I think her crime was horrific and almost beyond words but I think the commiting of her crimes was the result of a culmination of so many mitigating factors all coming together at the same time to produce the events of that night. I would like to see more money and attention paid to PP depression, as I think it was one of the factors that contributed to the murders. Texas has had more than its share of moms murdering their children, and most of them stem from some form of depression following the birth of a child. It may be because Texas also has one of the lowest-funded mental health organizations to help with these very problems. I think men paying more attention to their wives' mental health would be putting a big step forward, too.
I agree that men need to be better educated on PPD/PPP, but I don't agree that Texas' low funded mental health is responsible for all these cases we see in the news. I think every state is having problems in that area and because Texas is so big, we just see more there because of sheer numbers. However, I will agree that lousy funding is probably a contributer. Tennessee is not real terrific in that dept either. I suspect a lot of states basically suck at taking care of their mentally ill. I don't know why we think the mentally ill should be responsible for their own mental health, but that seems to be the general consensus these days.

beesy
09-06-2005, 08:16 AM
Motive is important because like it or not, Darlie is like many of us. She could be the lady next door, your sister-in-law's niece, the clerk in the neighborhood markert, etc. As long as we don't know why the Darlies of this world do what they do, our hands our tied to prevent the next one. So I think understanding...and we can understand motive even if the motive is not a strong enough reason to commit murder....understanding is important for many, many reasons outside of and beyond Darlie and the case itself I like to call them "Darlie reasons".

CyberLaw
09-06-2005, 10:18 AM
Motive is important because like it or not, Darlie is like many of us. She could be the lady next door, your sister-in-law's niece, the clerk in the neighborhood markert, etc. As long as we don't know why the Darlies of this world do what they do, our hands our tied to prevent the next one. So I think understanding...and we can understand motive even if the motive is not a strong enough reason to commit murder....understanding is important for many, many reasons outside of and beyond Darlie and the case itself.

I take grave exception that you are comparing murderers to the rest of the population. Darlie is sure as hell not like me or anyone I know. My kids are fine. My kids could never push me to the point of harming them.
People do things for their own reasons.

How would you understand and prevent the following:

My son was crying, so I grabbed a knife...........

My daughter was talking to my boyfriend, therefore she was trying to steal him from me.....so I grabbed a gun.

The toddler stole a cookie, therefore, he does not get food for a while.....

My husband received custody of the kids, therefore he will never have them if I cannot , I will just put them in the car, close the door, turn on the engine.

My wife broke her wedding "vow" and filed for Divorce, therefore if she broke her vow she went against "our Lord", I have decided her fate, let me grab the gun and knife.......

Should you stop children from crying, prevent a child from talking to the Mother's boyfriend, make sure all Mothers get full custody of their kids even if they are not fit to raise them. That would prevent the murders, make sure kids and Judges and whomever, bow to the mind and motivation of the person who wants to kill.

What would you do to "understand the motivation" behind the crimes mentioned above.

What about prevention of the above.......the motivation.......explain to me the "motivation" of a person to murder and the next person with the exact same circumstances does not.

It all lies with the person and the "choices" they make. There is no justification or strong enough motivation for murder, unless in self-defense. The motivation for self-defense - to save your own valuable life.

The motivation for murder - what ever the person feels is justified in their own minds. Do they value money over people......that is their own warped motive. Do we make sure that everyone, no matter what their financial situation is, has all the money they want and need, so they don't kill their husband or wife or children to get insurance money.....

If only the world was so simplistic as to think that to understand a person motivation for murder, future murders can be prevented. The next person is not the same, their minds and motivation are not the same. Therefore how can a person prevent a murder using a different set of circumstances and people.

Rational people do not and never will understand why and what motivates a person to commit a murder against her/his own flesh and blood.

A person chooses to react to different situation according to their own personal motivators. It has to do with their character, how they were raised, what they experienced, their personality......their environment.....

I don't care what warped or weird motivation Darlie had, nothing and I mean nothing can ever explain away what she did to two helpless sleeping children, then try to deceive everyone to save her own butt.

She put herself ahead of her own children, her own greed, her own identity, valued money over the life of her children.

It could have been as simple as one of the children out grew their clothes, asked for a new toy, needed new shoes. But Darlie could not go on vacation, so therefore in her own warped "motivation" killed the children who were going to drain her present and future resources.

I would wear 20 year old shoes for myself, as long as my child was fine, but the next person would kill their kid to buy themselves 20 pair of new shoes.

How would we prevent future murders with that motivation........

beesy
09-06-2005, 02:27 PM
[QUOTE]I take grave exception that you are comparing murderers to the rest of the population. Darlie is sure as hell not like me or anyone I know. My kids are fine. My kids could never push me to the point of harming them.

People do things for their own reasons.

How would you understand and prevent the following:

My son was crying, so I grabbed a knife...........

My daughter was talking to my boyfriend, therefore she was trying to steal him from me.....so I grabbed a gun.

The toddler stole a cookie, therefore, he does not get food for a while.....

My husband received custody of the kids, therefore he will never have them if I cannot , I will just put them in the car, close the door, turn on the engine.

My wife broke her wedding "vow" and filed for Divorce, therefore if she broke her vow she went against "our Lord", I have decided her fate, let me grab the gun and knife.......

It all lies with the person and the "choices" they make. There is no justification or strong enough motivation for murder, unless in self-defense. The motivation for self-defense - to save your own valuable life. Don't forget Susan Smith's excuse, which some people on this forum seem to accept. "I'm married, but losing my lover because he does not like children, therefore: oooh bright idea". By the way, have you ever seen a picture of the lover? Not enough there to make me cross the lawn for, much less leave my husband and kill my children.

Jeana (DP)
09-06-2005, 02:37 PM
[/color] Don't forget Susan Smith's excuse, which some people on this forum seem to accept. "I'm married, but losing my lover because he does not like children, therefore: oooh bright idea". By the way, have you ever seen a picture of the lover? Not enough there to make me cross the lawn for, much leave my husband and kill my children.


I don't think anyone ever accepted Smith's reasoning for murdering her children. She at least said why she did it. And while the guy was no stud, she was pretty "Plain Jane" herself, so I can see the attraction they may have had with one another.
Routier won't admit why she murdered the boys.

beesy
09-06-2005, 03:06 PM
I don't think anyone ever accepted Smith's reasoning for murdering her children. She at least said why she did it. And while the guy was no stud, she was pretty "Plain Jane" herself, so I can see the attraction they may have had with one another.
Routier won't admit why she murdered the boys. I have heard people on here say things like "what did Darlie have to gain? Susan Smith was worried her boyfriend would leave her" or "at least Susan Smith had an excuse". The part about her lover' studliness was said in jest.

HeartofTexas
09-06-2005, 03:13 PM
I think sometimes it's hard not to have a problem with your posts, Beesy. They sting, just like your name, "venomous beesy" implies.

beesy
09-06-2005, 03:14 PM
I don't think anyone ever accepted Smith's reasoning for murdering her children. She at least said why she did it. And while the guy was no stud, she was pretty "Plain Jane" herself, so I can see the attraction they may have had with one another.
Routier won't admit why she murdered the boys.
"I believed The Chamberlins were gulity as sin until it all came out years later,no wonder she left our country and went to USA.
I cannot fathom how someone like Darlie ,could in fact think it all up???
what did she gain?"[QUOTE=Breehannah6] from the "Lindy Chamberlain" thread.
"In Susan Smiths case as well as some other cases it was over a man who didnt want to involve themselves with a mother,weak excues yes I agree".[QUOTE=Breehannah6] from the "Lindy Chamberlain" thread/

beesy
09-06-2005, 03:18 PM
I think sometimes it's hard not to have a problem with your posts, Beesy. They sting, just like your name, "venomous beesy" implies. I admit I can be very sarcastic, but it's not normally towards anybody but Darlie and her supporters. Sometimes there are debates where we get "testy" with one another, but other posters are right in there with me. Have I been mean to you? I'm sorry if I have. These Darlies just drive me nuts. I didn't realize my posts were causing so much pain though. Maybe I should stop posting? I am really not a mean person, full of sarcasm, but not mean. I'm sorry

CyberLaw
09-06-2005, 03:44 PM
So the "motivator" for Susan Smith was to put this "lover" ahead of her own children and then kill her own children. That is the motivator, then what can we do(by understanding the motive) to "prevent this again".

Nothing..........

I don't care if the guy was a stud, does not even factor into the matter, the matter was she killed her kids. Most "normal" mothers would say: You don't want or like kids, fine, there is the door, they were here before you and I gave birth to them, they are my children, you are not my child, so see ya......

Susan Smith was faced with overwhemling evidence that she was responsible. it took a lot for her to "breakdown" and tell the truth. At least she told the truth......

Darlie was convicted with overwhelming evidence, but she has NDP therefore she will NEVER, ever accept responsibility or even give anyone a clue why she killed her kids. She will never admit responsibility, even on her way to being executed, she will keep saying: You are making a mistake, the intruder, the intruder, find the intruder........she will always blame something or someone else......

Like I said before the only thing that any normal and rational and reasonable person can understand to justify murder is self defense.

Nothing else.......

I don't care what the lame execuses or motivation is.....there is no excuse for murder and the motivation is in the warped mind of the person committing the murder.........

Excuses are just excuses.........not accepting personal responsibility.......for what you have done.........

Diane Downs, Susan Smith....Darlie Routier......

Jeana (DP)
09-06-2005, 03:54 PM
So the "motivator" for Susan Smith was to put this "lover" ahead of her own children and then kill her own children. That is the motivator, then what can we do(by understanding the motive) to "prevent this again".

Nothing..........

I don't care if the guy was a stud, does not even factor into the matter, the matter was she killed her kids. Most "normal" mothers would say: You don't want or like kids, fine, there is the door, they were here before you and I gave birth to them, they are my children, you are not my child, so see ya......

Susan Smith was faced with overwhemling evidence that she was responsible. it took a lot for her to "breakdown" and tell the truth. At least she told the truth......

Darlie was convicted with overwhelming evidence, but she has NDP therefore she will NEVER, ever accept responsibility or even give anyone a clue why she killed her kids. She will never admit responsibility, even on her way to being executed, she will keep saying: You are making a mistake, the intruder, the intruder, find the intruder........she will always blame something or someone else......

Like I said before the only thing that any normal and rational and reasonable person can understand to justify murder is self defense.

Nothing else.......

I don't care what the lame execuses or motivation is.....there is no excuse for murder and the motivation is in the warped mind of the person committing the murder.........

Excuses are just excuses.........not accepting personal responsibility.......for what you have done.........

Diane Downs, Susan Smith....Darlie Routier......


Excellent post. The sad thing about the Smith case is that any number of family members would have been more than happy to take those boys off her hands, thereby freeing her for her "boyfriend." I'm always left speechless when these people feel that murder is the better alternative and that they won't get caught.

Many of the Darlie's feel that America was so angry that Smith escaped the death penalty that Darlie received a greater punishment than she would have had the Smith case not happened. I think that's nonsense. This is Texas afterall. There are very few, if any cases, where I can see a parent NOT receiving the death penalty in this type of case.

HeartofTexas
09-06-2005, 06:16 PM
No, Beesy, you shouldn't quit posting. Just talk to people on here the way you would like to be talked to. Sometimes it's possibly just the difference between talking in person, or talking on the internet... things get lost in the translation. I certainly understand a lack of patience with the Darlie supporters!

Jeana (DP)
09-06-2005, 06:36 PM
Well I don't believe that we have any Darlie supporters brave enough to post here. They read here and report back to headquarters, but they don't post. ;)

Goody
09-07-2005, 02:21 AM
Motive is important because like it or not, Darlie is like many of us. She could be the lady next door, your sister-in-law's niece, the clerk in the neighborhood markert, etc. As long as we don't know why the Darlies of this world do what they do, our hands our tied to prevent the next one. So I think understanding...and we can understand motive even if the motive is not a strong enough reason to commit murder....understanding is important for many, many reasons outside of and beyond Darlie and the case itself.

I take grave exception that you are comparing murderers to the rest of the population. Darlie is sure as hell not like me or anyone I know. My kids are fine. My kids could never push me to the point of harming them.
People do things for their own reasons.

Other than the act of murder, how is she so different?


Should you stop children from crying, prevent a child from talking to the Mother's boyfriend, make sure all Mothers get full custody of their kids even if they are not fit to raise them. That would prevent the murders, make sure kids and Judges and whomever, bow to the mind and motivation of the person who wants to kill.

What would you do to "understand the motivation" behind the crimes mentioned above.
Understanding the motivation leads to discovery of the underlying causes of the motivation, which is really what we want to know. Knowing won't necessarily stop the Darlie's of this world from killing, but it might help us to identify problem areas and that might lead to an enhancement in treatments that might prevent some of those murders from occuring. One thing is for certain, ignorance has never brought about any positive change at all, so ignoring the problem is probably not a productive problem solver either.

What about prevention of the above.......the motivation.......explain to me the "motivation" of a person to murder and the next person with the exact same circumstances does not.
You are trying to over simplify my point. We don't need exact same circumstances. We need to know what is at the base of the trigger and possibly what is at the base of the base. If it was PPD, for example, or just plain greed. Have we as a society become so materialistic that some of us are willing to do anything, even kill our own children, to hold onto it? What makes us think with any reason at all that this is an acceptable act?

It all lies with the person and the "choices" they make. There is no justification or strong enough motivation for murder, unless in self-defense. The motivation for self-defense - to save your own valuable life.
I totally agree. It is all about choices. That is the bottomline. But something allowed Darlie and Susan to stoop to that choice. ( Diane Downs, I think, probably didn't have to stoop. ) Discovering what that was would help people sitting at home having difficulty coping with everyday life. If we could catch the Darlies and Susans of this world at an earlier stage than after the murder has been committed, we might be able to help them prevent the inexcusable. I don't think that is just a pipe dream.

The motivation for murder - what ever the person feels is justified in their own minds. Do they value money over people......that is their own warped motive. Do we make sure that everyone, no matter what their financial situation is, has all the money they want and need, so they don't kill their husband or wife or children to get insurance money.....
That is an interesting view. Obviously not the answer though. Valuing money over people is a symtom, not the root of the problem. If we could identify the root though, we might be successful at reducing the incidents of murder within families.

If only the world was so simplistic as to think that to understand a person motivation for murder, future murders can be prevented. The next person is not the same, their minds and motivation are not the same. Therefore how can a person prevent a murder using a different set of circumstances and people.
But that is the point. While the circumstances may be different, the root causes of what leads to murder are often the same or very similar. It is the root causes that would need to be treated or changed in order to prevent the act of murder. We probably can't do much about robberies that go wrong, but emotionally based murders certainly have some hope just by virtue of the emotions involved. Plus the killers are often first time offenders, which means they are law abiding in every other way. If there is no hope for them, there is no hope for any criminal ever.

Rational people do not and never will understand why and what motivates a person to commit a murder against her/his own flesh and blood.
I am not sure this is true. Rational people should be able to understand many things they don't personally participate in or approve of. That is why we are rational. If we isolated ourselves to the point that we can only relate to people who are like us, we might be closer to the sanity edge than we dare to think.

A person chooses to react to different situation according to their own personal motivators. It has to do with their character, how they were raised, what they experienced, their personality......their environment.....
Agreed, but not exclusively. I have known many of low character who would never commit murder and we have all seen people thought to be morally surperior all their lives who end up being accused of murder. I used to have a friend who was always trying to recruit me into some multi-level business venture and she would say, "You'll see. The must unlikely people are in this thing. You'll love it!" So goes the murderer....the most unlikely people sometimes.

I don't care what warped or weird motivation Darlie had, nothing and I mean nothing can ever explain away what she did to two helpless sleeping children, then try to deceive everyone to save her own butt.

She put herself ahead of her own children, her own greed, her own identity, valued money over the life of her children.

It could have been as simple as one of the children out grew their clothes, asked for a new toy, needed new shoes. But Darlie could not go on vacation, so therefore in her own warped "motivation" killed the children who were going to drain her present and future resources.

I would wear 20 year old shoes for myself, as long as my child was fine, but the next person would kill their kid to buy themselves 20 pair of new shoes.

How would we prevent future murders with that motivation........
Most of the things you list as motivators are really triggers, not the actual motivation. Let's just say that Darlie was suffering from depression and worry over their financial stresses and upcoming committments that she was afraid she could not fulfill. The diet pills kept her from sleeping well and after three months, she might have been down to the raw nerves. On top of that she fights with Darin and in the process of that or as a result of that, she kills the kids. The motivation might be seen as that last thing that triggered the final act, but we know by looking at all these other things that the real cause goes much deeper than Devon talking back or even that fight with Darin. The demons are in the depression and the causes of that.

Knowing that may not stop someone else from committing a like crime or it may, depending on how the psychological world can use the information gained from it. But sweeping it all under the carpet and refusing to even consider it definitely won't help anyone.

I am one who likes to see it all carved in stone. I want the whole picture to go down in history. What role Darin played and why. What Darlie did and why. I don't need to kill her just to get even with her for committing such a horrible crime. I don't feel a need to punish her. The state can handle all that. I just want to know why, no matter how lame the trigger might have been. Something turned a middle class housewife into a monster.

How would we prevent future murders? That would depend on what we find, but I am guessing thru education and treatment of depression as it applies, assuming, of course, that depression is the villain here. If it made perfect sense to Darlie to trade her kids for a trip to Cancun, then we really have to dig into what was going on with her.

And maybe you are right. Maybe we can't realistically prevent murders by indentifying motivators and triggers. Maybe all we can do is aid in treatment after the deed has been done.

Goody
09-07-2005, 02:23 AM
[/color]Don't forget Susan Smith's excuse, which some people on this forum seem to accept. "I'm married, but losing my lover because he does not like children, therefore: oooh bright idea". By the way, have you ever seen a picture of the lover? Not enough there to make me cross the lawn for, much less leave my husband and kill my children.
Do you really believe that is why she did it? To win back a lover she had lost?

Goody
09-07-2005, 02:25 AM
I don't think anyone ever accepted Smith's reasoning for murdering her children. She at least said why she did it. And while the guy was no stud, she was pretty "Plain Jane" herself, so I can see the attraction they may have had with one another.
Routier won't admit why she murdered the boys.
I thought Susan was as cute as a button. Why one earth did you think she was a plain Jane? Well, I guess it doesn't matter. I am just surprised.

Goody
09-07-2005, 02:38 AM
Like I said before the only thing that any normal and rational and reasonable person can understand to justify murder is self defense.

Nothing else.......

I don't care what the lame execuses or motivation is.....there is no excuse for murder and the motivation is in the warped mind of the person committing the murder.........

Excuses are just excuses.........not accepting personal responsibility.......for what you have done.........

Diane Downs, Susan Smith....Darlie Routier......
Wait a second. Understanding motivation does not mean it is excused or that somehow the motivation makes sense, at least not in any rational way.

For example, if Susan Smith were to say that she was overwhelmed by the heavy burden of responsibility of raising her children on her own while her ex was out having a good time night after night with other women and she just couldn't put one foot in front of the other anymore, that she tried to ask for help but no one really listened so she just thought the best thing to do was kill herself and the children, then she chickened out and got out of the car and just froze. For some reason she could not make herself save the kids. We know the motive doesn't make rational sense, but we can understand the thoughts and feelings going through her head at the time. It is a good example of the pressures single mothers go thru today,and emphasizes the fact that single mothers need help, fathers need to be more active in their children's lives, marriage needs to be taken more seriously, and leads to questions like how can society and the courts help.

Does it excuse her actions? No, of course not. Does it change her sentence? No. Should it? Probably not.

Will it help to make us better prepared for the next single mother overwhelmed by her life? I hope so.

Goody
09-07-2005, 02:40 AM
Well I don't believe that we have any Darlie supporters brave enough to post here. They read here and report back to headquarters, but they don't post. ;)
O, gosh, I bet they love me!

Goody
09-07-2005, 02:42 AM
Many of the Darlie's feel that America was so angry that Smith escaped the death penalty that Darlie received a greater punishment than she would have had the Smith case not happened. I think that's nonsense. This is Texas afterall. There are very few, if any cases, where I can see a parent NOT receiving the death penalty in this type of case.
I agree. Darlie's sentence had nothing to do with Susan Smith. Anyone convicted of that crime would have gotten the DP. It was a gruesome crime.

beesy
09-07-2005, 07:55 AM
Do you really believe that is why she did it? To win back a lover she had lost? I don't know? Was it a "Susan" reason, just like we say there are "Darlie" reasons? One of many things. As we've said with Darlie, there's no logical "reason" at all anyway.

beesy
09-07-2005, 08:06 AM
I thought Susan was as cute as a button. Why one earth did you think she was a plain Jane? Well, I guess it doesn't matter. I am just surprised. I especially liked those two tears she squeezed out and that little bratty whine which reminded me of when my kids were 2 yrs old. I notice she keeps her eyes on her prepared statement and never looks into the camera."Ya'll've gotta be strong and Mommy and Daddy love you"...or something like that. I don't think she's so plain Jane either, cuter than the lover. I like her hair, at least I did then.

beesy
09-07-2005, 08:30 AM
Speaking of Susan Smith: check this out
http://writeaprisoner.com/template.asp?i=z-221487

deanws
09-07-2005, 09:43 PM
Do you really believe that is why she did it? To win back a lover she had lost? I absolutely do.:furious:

CyberLaw
09-08-2005, 09:46 AM
The one difficultly a society will have to prevent murders in the future, is that it has little to do with external factors.

Motive is a psychological response to obtain a goal or desired result. That is the goal or desired result of an individual person.

For example: Johnny and Susie, both neighbours.

Johnny had his priviledge of using the car taken away because of reckless behaviour. He is not happy, an angry young man. So to "teach" his parents a lesson and get revenge(both psychological factors) he grabs a shotgun and shoots both parents as they are sleeping. There he showed them..........

Susie had her priviledge of using the car taken away because of reckless behaviour. She is not happy and is an angry young women. She storms out of the house, stays at a friends place and calls her parents after a couple of days. She comes home, and tells her parents that she is not happy about not using the car, but she understand that she could harm herself, others, and is not acting in a mature and responsible manner.

Susie goes on to college. Johnny goes on to trial. Both had the same "motivation" to kill their parents but only one "choose" to act upon it. The motivation is the psychological factors.

Susie has a life, graduates college, gets a job, marries and settles down and has kids.

Johnny is faced with life in prison.

So it is not "external" factors that "cause" a person to kill it the psychological motivation and the "choice" they make to do it.

That is why Susan Smith and Darlie Routier are not like the rest of the population. Not all persons like a shopkeeper, store clerk, sister-in law will solve their "perceived problems" with violence. No one is the same psychologically.

There are times when a person "feels" like killing and has strong psychological motivators to do so, but they choose not to.

So solving the problems of being an "overwhelmed" single mother is not going to prevent murders, because it is up to the individual.

That is why as much as a person "tries" to find the motivation as to why Darlie killed her kids is not possible, unless Darlie "confesses"(not going to happen) because you are not Darlie and don't have the same psychological response or knowledge of her how her mind works.

It is not like she is going to admit her "motivation" because she is still yelling: Instruder, Intruder, find the intruder.

Asked why she killed her kids. She will deny it to the day she dies.

To eliminate murder: You would have to eliminate all of the psychological factors that "motivate" a person to kill.

Preceived slights, envy, jelously, entitlment, anger, poverty which leads to feeling of deprivation, TV shows that glorify violence, war, revenge, quick fix to problems, control, feeling of power, suffering of another person, materalism, greed, owning a person, making them do what you want, seeing a person as less than human, gangs, ghettos, etc.

These are the psychological factors from motivation, not environmental factors.

That is why to understand motivation is not going to prevent murders under the exact same "physical and environmental" circumstances as it has to do with the individual person and their own person "motivators" in response to a desired goal or desire.

Jeana (DP)
09-08-2005, 09:50 AM
Good example Cyberlaw! However, here in Texas, Johnny is on death row. :)

Goody
09-08-2005, 01:10 PM
I don't know? Was it a "Susan" reason, just like we say there are "Darlie" reasons? One of many things. As we've said with Darlie, there's no logical "reason" at all anyway.
No reason is truly logical, short of he raped my sister so I killed the jerk. Susan just seemed like such a lost soul to me. Maybe my instinct where she is concerned is misplaced or off the mark,but I just don't see a girl who would kill her children (and you can tell that Susan truly loved those children) for a guy who was already out of her life, esp after she told him she'd had an affair with his father. She had no chance of ever getting that guy back, even without children. I've always felt that after she lost the lover and admitted about her affair with his father, all the while knowing her stepfather still expected her to perform for him and her ex was out having a good ol' time after hooking up with a new love that she felt she had run out of options. She called her mother that day but her mother was too busy to talk. Seemed to me she was reaching out but was so far out on an emotional limb, she couldn't wait. I think maybe she did have it in her head to kill all three of them, herself included, but something pulled her back. I can see her there frozen, unable to make herself save the children. I think Susan was really a tortured soul who did a really good job of masking it.

I mean look at what she had learned from men. Her body was to be used, her heart was to be chewed up and thrown away, she wasn't good enough for the men she perceived to be "good" so she couldn't even elevate herself above her ex and her stepfather. And basically nobody cared enough for her or her children to help her. They were all so busy with their lives,they didn't even notice the plight she was in.

Goody
09-08-2005, 01:26 PM
I agree with Jeana. Excellent post, Cyberlaw.

I can see what you are saying and agree with almost all of it. The only thing I can point out that might be a flaw is that Johnny and Susie probably are not starting off with the same ability to cope with life's problems. I realize that will always be the problem, but it is those folks who are flawed that we seek to heal....or learn from. By learning from them, we might learn how to identify them sooner and maybe redirect their paths, thus helping them learn more effective coping skills. And I suspect that the "coping" is just scratching the surface of the emotional flaws/weaknesses that might one day lead to murder or other crimes if left unattended.

I don't think we can change masses of people at one time, but knowledge is power and the more we learn about those who commit crimes the better equipped we are to do something about it, whatever that might mean. I definitely don't think murdering them is the most satisfactory answer. Whether we think like them or not,and most esp if we don't, learning from them is the only way to be better prepared to deal with them.

So, Cyber, are you an attorney, a psychologist, or just a very educated person?

j2mirish
09-08-2005, 09:29 PM
The one difficultly a society will have to prevent murders in the future, is that it has little to do with external factors.

Motive is a psychological response to obtain a goal or desired result. That is the goal or desired result of an individual person.

For example: Johnny and Susie, both neighbours.

Johnny had his priviledge of using the car taken away because of reckless behaviour. He is not happy, an angry young man. So to "teach" his parents a lesson and get revenge(both psychological factors) he grabs a shotgun and shoots both parents as they are sleeping. There he showed them..........

Susie had her priviledge of using the car taken away because of reckless behaviour. She is not happy and is an angry young women. She storms out of the house, stays at a friends place and calls her parents after a couple of days. She comes home, and tells her parents that she is not happy about not using the car, but she understand that she could harm herself, others, and is not acting in a mature and responsible manner.

Susie goes on to college. Johnny goes on to trial. Both had the same "motivation" to kill their parents but only one "choose" to act upon it. The motivation is the psychological factors.

Susie has a life, graduates college, gets a job, marries and settles down and has kids.

Johnny is faced with life in prison.

So it is not "external" factors that "cause" a person to kill it the psychological motivation and the "choice" they make to do it.

That is why Susan Smith and Darlie Routier are not like the rest of the population. Not all persons like a shopkeeper, store clerk, sister-in law will solve their "perceived problems" with violence. No one is the same psychologically.

There are times when a person "feels" like killing and has strong psychological motivators to do so, but they choose not to.

So solving the problems of being an "overwhelmed" single mother is not going to prevent murders, because it is up to the individual.

That is why as much as a person "tries" to find the motivation as to why Darlie killed her kids is not possible, unless Darlie "confesses"(not going to happen) because you are not Darlie and don't have the same psychological response or knowledge of her how her mind works.

It is not like she is going to admit her "motivation" because she is still yelling: Instruder, Intruder, find the intruder.

Asked why she killed her kids. She will deny it to the day she dies.

To eliminate murder: You would have to eliminate all of the psychological factors that "motivate" a person to kill.

Preceived slights, envy, jelously, entitlment, anger, poverty which leads to feeling of deprivation, TV shows that glorify violence, war, revenge, quick fix to problems, control, feeling of power, suffering of another person, materalism, greed, owning a person, making them do what you want, seeing a person as less than human, gangs, ghettos, etc.

These are the psychological factors from motivation, not environmental factors.

That is why to understand motivation is not going to prevent murders under the exact same "physical and environmental" circumstances as it has to do with the individual person and their own person "motivators" in response to a desired goal or desire.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: I get so tired of all the "reasons" why.....get so tired of the buts.......the bottom line is this------ YOU DONT KILL SOMEONE====== certainly not your own children or family......I MUST BE OLD SCHOOL OR SOMETHING-- this can fall into so many catagories-----they molested because they were... they beat their wife ( or Husband) because they grew up that way-- I just cant believe that me growing up in a middle class family- no perks, no money, etc..etc..etc.. it is not about how "they" saw it--- "they" still KNOW--- it is not right

deanws
09-09-2005, 12:14 AM
Good example Cyberlaw! However, here in Texas, Johnny is on death row. :)AND...will ACTUALLY die. I do not understand why some states sentence to death...but hardly ever carry out the sentence.

Goody
09-09-2005, 12:14 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: I get so tired of all the "reasons" why.....get so tired of the buts.......the bottom line is this------ YOU DONT KILL SOMEONE====== certainly not your own children or family......I MUST BE OLD SCHOOL OR SOMETHING-- this can fall into so many catagories-----they molested because they were... they beat their wife ( or Husband) because they grew up that way-- I just cant believe that me growing up in a middle class family- no perks, no money, etc..etc..etc.. it is not about how "they" saw it--- "they" still KNOW--- it is not right
Totally agree, Irish! But that doesn't mean that no one should look at such things.

You do realize that according to Texas statute, it is not enough to kill your own children to qualify for the death penalty? You also have to be a danger to society, or maybe I should say a continued threat. Darlie should not have been given the death penalty because she did not qualify, other than the nature of her crime.

To us lay people, the nature of her crime alone is enough to want her to die, too, but that is not what is laid out in the death penalty statute. I wonder if she will end up getting the death penalty set aside for that reason.

deanws
09-09-2005, 12:18 AM
Totally agree, Irish! But that doesn't mean that no one should look at such things.

You do realize that according to Texas statute, it is not enough to kill your own children to qualify for the death penalty? You also have to be a danger to society, or maybe I should say a continued threat. Darlie should not have been given the death penalty because she did not qualify, other than the nature of her crime.

To us lay people, the nature of her crime alone is enough to want her to die, too, but that is not what is laid out in the death penalty statute. I wonder if she will end up getting the death penalty set aside for that reason. I don't believe so Goody. I think she is going down....in more than one way.

Goody
09-09-2005, 12:20 AM
AND...will ACTUALLY die. I do not understand why some states sentence to death...but hardly ever carry out the sentence.
I was watching a show the other day about the death penalty history. Back in the 50s and 60s, people were executed pretty darned quick. Some within 6 or 7 years. That should be the way it is here, but we should give it less often, only to those who go beyond the pale in the most heinous of murders or attempted murders. The guy who cut off the teenager's arms after raping her, for example, should have gotten death, if left up to me.

The first woman put to death in a gas chamber was put in there with her husband and partner in crime (kidnap for ransom and murder) and they were both executed at the same time. I doubt if you would see that today.

deanws
09-09-2005, 12:28 AM
I was watching a show the other day about the death penalty history. Back in the 50s and 60s, people were executed pretty darned quick. Some within 6 or 7 years. That should be the way it is here, but we should give it less often, only to those who go beyond the pale in the most heinous of murders or attempted murders. The guy who cut off the teenager's arms after raping her, for example, should have gotten death, if left up to me.

The first woman put to death in a gas chamber was put in there with her husband and partner in crime (kidnap for ransom and murder) and they were both executed at the same time. I doubt if you would see that today. About that man who cut off the teen's arms.....I think we should do the same to him. Stuff like that makes me just sick. :(

Goody
09-09-2005, 02:02 AM
I don't believe so Goody. I think she is going down....in more than one way.
Maybe so. It will up to the federal judges now. Texas judges have already spoken.

Goody
09-09-2005, 02:06 AM
About that man who cut off the teen's arms.....I think we should do the same to him. Stuff like that makes me just sick. :(
I understand where you are coming from, though I would rather the jerk just didn't exist anymore. Anyone who maims like that for no particular reason other than to be just cruel and mean doesn't deserve to live among anyone else, not even fellow cons. That poor girl had the most awful life until she was finally able to accept herself as she was. Now she is a wife and mother, and I believe living happily....without arms though.

beesy
09-09-2005, 08:27 AM
You do realize that according to Texas statute, it is not enough to kill your own children to qualify for the death penalty? You also have to be a danger to society, or maybe I should say a continued threat. Darlie should not have been given the death penalty because she did not qualify, other than the nature of her crimeI used to think that, but I've since decided that Darlie could be a danger not to society as a whole, but to her loved ones. Her basic personality has not changed. She's young and could still have children, and poor Drake is still there too. How can we be sure that all the "Darlie" reasons will not come back? I do believe that night everything came together, crashed on top of her and ended in the murders of her 2 boys, and that any other night it might not have happened. How do we know similar things won't push Darlie to the edge again? Unlikely, but she's still Darlie.
John List was not a danger to society in general. He only killed his family. However, one thing which triggered John's descent was money problems. Some years before he killed his family, he was in debt and he and his wife and kids just left town, dumped the house and the cars, etc. He showed a history of running from problems. He did fine when he was on the run, after the murders, because he worked at simple jobs and rented cheap apartments. Several years before he was caught, he remarried and began buying the things which we all "need", a house, cars, furniture. Then he started losing his jobs(accounting positions) and going under. Would he have done it again? He was caught before things got impossible. In a recent interview, he said how he enjoys his life in prison. He has a little job in the library and he doesn't have to worry about real life. So John's personality is still there. He still wouldn't be able to handle the real world.
Suppose Darlie played it cool when she got out of prison, but then before too long, starting spending money and taking trips and all the things she likes to do? TX doesn't have LWOP does it? If it does, that sentence would be the right one. Darlie should not be allowed out of prison.

Jeana (DP)
09-09-2005, 09:56 AM
Totally agree, Irish! But that doesn't mean that no one should look at such things.

You do realize that according to Texas statute, it is not enough to kill your own children to qualify for the death penalty? You also have to be a danger to society, or maybe I should say a continued threat. Darlie should not have been given the death penalty because she did not qualify, other than the nature of her crime.

To us lay people, the nature of her crime alone is enough to want her to die, too, but that is not what is laid out in the death penalty statute. I wonder if she will end up getting the death penalty set aside for that reason.


Disagree Goody. She's still young enough to have more children and let's not forget she didn't murder Drake. Any child in her care, I believe, would have been in danger. Murder once and you're able to do so again.

Jeana (DP)
09-09-2005, 09:57 AM
I used to think that, but I've since decided that Darlie could be a danger not to society as a whole, but to her loved ones. Her basic personality has not changed. She's young and could still have children, and poor Drake is still there too. How can we be sure that all the "Darlie" reasons will not come back? I do believe that night everything came together, crashed on top of her and ended in the murders of her 2 boys, and that any other night it might not have happened. How do we know similar things won't push Darlie to the edge again? Unlikely, but she's still Darlie.
John List was not a danger to society in general. He only killed his family. However, one thing which triggered John's descent was money problems. Some years before he killed his family, he was in debt and he and his wife and kids just left town, dumped the house and the cars, etc. He showed a history of running from problems. He did fine when he was on the run, after the murders, because he worked at simple jobs and rented cheap apartments. Several years before he was caught, he remarried and began buying the things which we all "need", a house, cars, furniture. Then he started losing his jobs(accounting positions) and going under. Would he have done it again? He was caught before things got impossible. In a recent interview, he said how he enjoys his life in prison. He has a little job in the library and he doesn't have to worry about real life. So John's personality is still there. He still wouldn't be able to handle the real world.
Suppose Darlie played it cool when she got out of prison, but then before too long, starting spending money and taking trips and all the things she likes to do? TX doesn't have LWOP does it? If it does, that sentence would be the right one. Darlie should not be allowed out of prison.


Didn't see this until after my "disagree" post. I agree with this.

CyberLaw
09-09-2005, 11:44 AM
Past behaviour is a very good indicator of future behaviour.

You never know who else she might murder, because again we do not know her "motivation" to murder.

We do not know what her personal goal and desire was when she "choose" to murder her kids.

What if Drake is standing in her way of something she wants, he wants and needs something that is beyond her spening habits, that she will take out tons of life insurance on him........

If I understand the Death Penalty(after all I am Canadian)I thought it had to do with the ages of the children. The youngest child. Isn't that a factor in a death penalty case, the child was under a specific age.

The fact that she did not admit any responsibility, remorse, told lies, played herself as a victim, injured herself to deflect suspicion, had monatary gain, the victims were her children and she is "not normal" leads me to believe that if given her own "motivation" she will kill again, and have the same reaction or lack thereof.........but this time she might even go so far as to "set up" another person for her own crime......

Her whole life was smoke and mirrors and when the actual facade was fading, she could not cope because all she knew was how to be "pretty, cute and spend money. There was no internal character development, everything was all external........

It is like a pretty women is not too bright......did not finish high school, lands a rich man and lives her life spending his money because she feels entitled.

Then he leaves her for a younger, pretty women, and she gets mad and kills him because he ruined her life and how dare he leave her. She is an empty soul, a shell of a human being.....so she viewed her children in the same way, an ends to a means, she did not love them, she saw them as objects and obstacles to her lifestyle and money.........

A neighbour might have more money, but in Darlie's mind, this women is "better" then her because she has more money, Darlie feels envy, jelously and wants to get back at this women because she has what Darlie does not not.

So Darlie wants to take it away from her.........

HeartofTexas
09-09-2005, 12:08 PM
Her whole life was smoke and mirrors and when the actual facade was fading, she could not cope because all she knew was how to be "pretty, cute and spend money. There was no internal character development, everything was all external........

Great post, Cyber. I particularly liked the above quote. And you are correct... it was the age of one of the two boys murdered who qualified Darlie for the DP. I apologize for not remembering the name of the youngest boy murdered... it would help my feeble mind if everyone in their family's name didn't begin with a "D"!

Jeana (DP)
09-09-2005, 12:19 PM
Past behaviour is a very good indicator of future behaviour.

You never know who else she might murder, because again we do not know her "motivation" to murder.

We do not know what her personal goal and desire was when she "choose" to murder her kids.

What if Drake is standing in her way of something she wants, he wants and needs something that is beyond her spening habits, that she will take out tons of life insurance on him........

If I understand the Death Penalty(after all I am Canadian)I thought it had to do with the ages of the children. The youngest child. Isn't that a factor in a death penalty case, the child was under a specific age.
.


Yes, age of the victim is a factor. Here's the info:

The following crimes are Capital Murder in Texas: murder of a public safety officer or firefighter; murder during the commission of kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, or obstruction or retaliation; murder for remuneration; murder during prison escape; murder of a correctional employee; murder by a state prison inmate who is serving a life sentence for any of five offenses (murder, capital murder, aggravated kidnapping, aggravated sexual assault, or aggravated robbery); multiple murders; murder of an individual under six years of age.

Jeana (DP)
09-09-2005, 12:20 PM
Great post, Cyber. I particularly liked the above quote. And you are correct... it was the age of one of the two boys murdered who qualified Darlie for the DP. I apologize for not remembering the name of the youngest boy murdered... it would help my feeble mind if everyone in their family's name didn't begin with a "D"!


Its hard, I know!! Damon was the youngest. Devon the older. Drake the baby she spared.

HeartofTexas
09-09-2005, 12:25 PM
Thanks! I started to type Damon, but feared you ladies with total recall on the case would pounce on me if I got the name incorrect! It's Damon and Devon I get mixed up ... Drake I remember.

Jeana (DP)
09-09-2005, 12:46 PM
Thanks! I started to type Damon, but feared you ladies with total recall on the case would pounce on me if I got the name incorrect! It's Damon and Devon I get mixed up ... Drake I remember.


lol We don't pounce!!! Well, Beesy does, but we like her anyway!! Once I heard that even the pets were not immune to the "D" series, I gave up! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Since "Devil" starts with "D," Darlie still fits in!! ;)

CyberLaw
09-09-2005, 12:57 PM
So she did not have to be deemed a "danger to the public", but the reason that she was sentenced to death was because the youngest was 6 or under.

Even with that fact, the jury did the right thing in my opinion sentencing her to death.

If Drake was downstairs with her, he would have been a victim too..... but since he was upstairs, there is no way she could have gone with her "story" about the intruder.

HeartofTexas
09-09-2005, 12:58 PM
You are correct! The dog's name was Domain. I feel certain the "D" pages in the "Name the Baby" book were very dog-eared from constant use.

beesy
09-09-2005, 01:21 PM
lol We don't pounce!!! Well, Beesy does, but we like her anyway!! Once I heard that even the pets were not immune to the "D" series, I gave up! :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: Since "Devil" starts with "D," Darlie still fits in!! ;) Gee, thanks for the compliment. Is that what it was? Better than your usual black eye:D

Jeana (DP)
09-09-2005, 01:22 PM
So she did not have to be deemed a "danger to the public", but the reason that she was sentenced to death was because the youngest was 6 or under.

Even with that fact, the jury did the right thing in my opinion sentencing her to death.

If Drake was downstairs with her, he would have been a victim too..... but since he was upstairs, there is no way she could have gone with her "story" about the intruder.


And the fact that there were multiple murders qualified her as well had they decided to try her for both of the murders. However, as you're aware, during cases like this, prosecutors will sometimes hold back a charge. If the prosecution couldn't get a conviction for whatever reason on the first murder charge, they could have tried her again for the second. However, since Devon was older than 6, the death penalty would most likely been off the table.

beesy
09-09-2005, 01:25 PM
You are correct! The dog's name was Domain. I feel certain the "D" pages in the "Name the Baby" book were very dog-eared from constant use. And odd "D" names too. What's wrong with David or Daniel? Somebody on a post said they were soap opera names. Damon is too close to Damian from the Omen I've always thought. Poor boys.

Goody
09-10-2005, 12:35 AM
And the fact that there were multiple murders qualified her as well had they decided to try her for both of the murders. However, as you're aware, during cases like this, prosecutors will sometimes hold back a charge. If the prosecution couldn't get a conviction for whatever reason on the first murder charge, they could have tried her again for the second. However, since Devon was older than 6, the death penalty would most likely been off the table.
Maybe they are saving that one for Darin, although they did say pretty directly that he was not a suspect. Also, they could not link the murder weapon to Devon and that probably would cause some problem. And I suspect that Devon was dead longer than indicated. I think they know that and are holding that information back. I wonder what evidence they have that they didn't use though. I suspect there is some of that, too.

Goody
09-10-2005, 12:37 AM
And odd "D" names too. What's wrong with David or Daniel? Somebody on a post said they were soap opera names. Damon is too close to Damian from the Omen I've always thought. Poor boys.
Devon and Damon are pretty common names for their generation. Don't forget the other Devon you found out there in cyberland the other day. LOL!

beesy
09-10-2005, 01:15 AM
Devon and Damon are pretty common names for their generation. Don't forget the other Devon you found out there in cyberland the other day. LOL! yeah, but we also know what KIND of Devon he is....tee hee

Goody
09-11-2005, 01:58 PM
yeah, but we also know what KIND of Devon he is....tee hee
Boy-Howdy! I've run into him a few times in my searches. LOL!