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SieSie
09-04-2005, 02:19 PM
DH and I had a friend over last night and I was shocked to hear him tell us that the government passed a bill and an island in Alaska with a population of about 50 people will get a $220 million bridge. I didn't believe him, I really didn't. Just got done doing some searching and found the following information.


Congress has passed SAFETEA-LU - that's short for a mouthful: Safe, Accountable, Flexible and Efficient Transportation Equity Act-Legacy for Users.

$286.4 billion spending plan for the nation's roads, bridges and transit through 2008.
More at link - Post-Gazette.com (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05219/549470.stm)




Alaska's Gravina Island is home to 50 people and more than 350 Sitka black-tailed deer. Under the U.S. highway bill passed last month, this group will get a $223 million bridge taller than the Brooklyn Bridge in New York.
More at link – Bloomberg.com (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aWA7joXO0bRk&refer=us)




A second “Bridge to Nowhere” will connect Gravina Island (population: 50) with the Alaskan mainland. House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman Don Young (R-Alaska) secured $220 million for this boondoggle. The cost of building the 5.9 mile bridge would be enough to buy every island resident a Lear jet.
More at link – Citizens Against Government Waste (http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer?pagename=reports_highwaybill)




2003
$273,000 grant to help the city of Blue Springs, Missouri, understand Goth culture better
$90,000 for the National Cowgirl Hall of Fame and Museum in Fort Worth, Texas

2004
$3,000,000 for the First Tee Program in Florida, which encourages young people to learn golf
$240,000 for potato storage research in Madison, Wisconsin
$200,000 for recreation in North Pole, Alaska
More at link – 3 pages - timesonline.co.uk (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-1733078_1,00.html)

You're telling me my tax dollars are going to enourage youngsters to golf, for potato storage research, and for Cowgirl Hall of Fame museums??? I'm shocked, I really am. I know I've always been very naive when it comes to politics, but I just really had no idea... $273,000 to one city to try to learn how to understand the Goth culture better?!?! Are they serious?!?!?!?!




As was widely reported following the passage of SAFETEA-LU, the bill contained more than 6,000 earmarks. Many of these became objects of national ridicule, thanks to the national media, and rightly so because they had little to do with building necessary transportation infrastructure. But today, in the face of Katrina’s vast destruction, these earmarks are no laughing matter when their funding could be redirected to begin to rebuild the infrastructure of the Gulf States. As Congress considers the vast suffering in Louisiana, is it possible that Richmond, Indiana, could give up its $3 million dollar hiking trail? Could Newark, New Jersey pass on its $2 million earmark for Waterfront Pedestrian and Bicycle Access? And can Hoboken, New Jersey, do likewise with the $8 million planned for its Waterfront Walkway? What about the $3 million that Modesto, California, expects to get for its Rails to Trails program, the $5 million Bridgeport, Connecticut, grabbed for an Intermodal Transportation facility, the $5 million Delaware will get to improve the Auto Tour Route at the Bombay Hook Wildlife Refuge, and the $6.5 million that state will receive for the Wilmington Train Station Restoration? In the face of genuine need, don’t these expensive projects seem comparatively frivolous?

The earmarks go on and on like this, page after page in SAFETEA-LU. The more than 6,000 earmarks in it add up to nearly $25 billion in money that could now be better used for a more urgent purpose than flower gardens, replica sailing ships, and bus museums. Members of Congress may want these projects, but Katrina’s victims need the funding more.
More at link - Heritage.org (http://www.heritage.org/Research/SmartGrowth/wm832a.cfm)



This topic makes me very angry - why wasn't more money appropriated to Louisianna years ago to strengthen the levees? It's more important to give 50+ people in Alaska a $200 million dollar bridge than it is to give that $200 million to the Gulf Coast to help in disaster prevention and relief??

Surely we can take some of the money from this SAFETEA-LU bill that seems to be wasteful in light of this disaster, and put it towards fixing the levee system, re-building the cities that are decimated, and providing long-term relief to those affected and left homeless.

Don't forget there was $12 million dollars approved in 1999 to STUDY the levee in NO that wasn't even scheduled to begin until 2006 - so there's another $12 million we can add to the recovery and relief efforts, right?!?!

ETA quote and link regarding the $12 million study:

The levees that protected the city from the Mississippi River and Lake Ponchartrain were partially redesigned and rebuilt to withstand a Force 3 hurricane. The ten-year project to build them up to that level was launched in 1965, but is still incomplete after 40 years. The portion of the levee that collapsed, however, was one that had been completed. The city and state governments took a continuing gamble since the 1960s that no stronger storm would happen to strike New Orleans. Eventually, the city was bound to lose; it was only a matter of time. Some critics would like to blame the disaster on the recent reduction of federal funds to the Army Corps of Engineers, but funds have been declining for nearly a decade. According to the Chicago Tribune, “Congress in 1999 authorized the corps to conduct a $12 million study to determine how much it would cost to protect New Orleans from a Category 5 hurricane, but the study isn’t scheduled to get under way until 2006.”
More at link - chronwatch.com (http://www.chronwatch.com/content/contentDisplay.asp?aid=16582)

BirdieBoo
09-04-2005, 02:23 PM
Here's some potato storage research, from an Idaho-raised gal:

Dig a big hole underground, and put a roof on it. Put the potatoes under there. They'll keep.

Free of charge.

Our government seems to have some accountability issues, as to where our money is going.

Dara
09-04-2005, 02:33 PM
Thank you, Sie Sie. These are the things we as Americans should be aware of. We need to ask questions, and demand accountability from our leaders. The more we know, the better off we are.

SieSie
09-04-2005, 03:00 PM
Thank you, Sie Sie. These are the things we as Americans should be aware of. We need to ask questions, and demand accountability from our leaders. The more we know, the better off we are.

Actually, I think I preferred living with my head stuck in the sand. The more I hear and learn, the angrier I get.

Dara
09-04-2005, 03:06 PM
Actually, I think I preferred living with my head stuck in the sand. The more I hear and learn, the angrier I get.
Oh, I can relate. This is disheartening. But I've got to believe that arming ourselves with knowledge and remembering, not accepting revisionist history but remembering, will help. That continuing to ask "Why" and "How" and being as vocal as we can be about something as important as the unnecessary deaths of a great number of people will make a difference.

Cver the past few days, when I've seen that asking questions and making appropriate criticisms are called "bashing" and expecting accountability from our elected officials, or really anything but blindly standing behind the president NO MATTER WHAT, is seen by some as unpatriotic, I realize why how we've gotten to be where we are now.

And that has got to change. Let's keep the info flowing and give each other support as we learn more and more disturbing information.

Mabel
09-04-2005, 03:18 PM
What do you want to bet that some politician is getting rich off this $200mil bridge? We need to stop electing politicians and start electing real people. The politicians have turned our government into a business for their own profit. That's not what our forefathers fought for. IMO, the best thing that could come from this disaster is for the American people to take back their government.

Dara
09-04-2005, 04:04 PM
Sie Sie, I'm adding a link to a commentary (http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/tallahassee/news/local/12557085.htm) I felt raised some good questions, including the role a push toward privitization of services--among other things--played in the abysmal response. I chose this thread because privitization is in no small part an economic issue. If you think it doesn't belong, I'd be glad to delete/move it.


For more than a decade, there has been constant applause for downsizing government. The Republican Party has made replacing government services with private initiatives its raison d'�tre. Florida Gov. Jeb Bush once crowed he longed for the day when we have no government agencies.

That attitude has eroded public services, hamstrung regulatory safeguards, undercut public projects and discouraged many of the best and brightest from government service. We've made government a dirty word.

That's wrong.

There are things only government can do - and in a big nation it's a big list. It's law enforcement, health care, education, transportation, urban planning, emergency preparedness and environmental protection. Private industry exists to maximize profit and minimize cost. Government exists to serve the public good despite its cost.

concernedperson
09-04-2005, 04:10 PM
I think more and more of us may be sticking our heads into the political pavillion from now on. Right now I am getting a headache just reading this crap.

Casshew
09-04-2005, 05:46 PM
SieSie, thanks for posting all that. It really is obscene :sick:

LadyLuck
09-04-2005, 07:45 PM
What do you want to bet that some politician is getting rich off this $200mil bridge? We need to stop electing politicians and start electing real people. The politicians have turned our government into a business for their own profit. That's not what our forefathers fought for. IMO, the best thing that could come from this disaster is for the American people to take back their government.

You are so right- but it seems that the only ones running for office are career politicians.

SieSie
09-04-2005, 08:14 PM
I think more and more of us may be sticking our heads into the political pavillion from now on. Right now I am getting a headache just reading this crap.
I hear ya about the headache, the more I learn, the angrier I get. I'm not sure I'm ready for the PP yet!! I wish I had all the answers, but I don't. I'm full of questions!


SieSie, thanks for posting all that. It really is obscene :sick:
Isn't it, though? Horrendous, appalling, frivolous, ridiculous.... ugh. BTW, yw. :cool:

Dara - thanks for the info. I don't care who posts what, where - as long as we're being informed, I think it's all good.

Dara
09-07-2005, 10:23 AM
Bumping for PrayersforMaura

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 11:16 AM
Thank you, Sie Sie. These are the things we as Americans should be aware of. We need to ask questions, and demand accountability from our leaders. The more we know, the better off we are.

Dara, I wholeheartedly agree. I just wish we knew how to make wide, sweeping changes. It's frustrating as hell. From local school board elections up to the fed gov't...there is corruption, special interest, favoritism, "what's in it for me - or my buddies" - mentality. :doh: I think even many good-intentioned people run for office, having the intent to change things, shake things up, and then when they get in there, things can get off track because of different pressures, favors, etc. It's sad, really. And I do think those that are career politicians are often the absolute worst. They've been out of touch with reality for joe citizen for way too long.

And yet, I'd still rather live here than anywhere else. We can hope, hope that some changes and more accountability come into play after this. This had damn sure be a wake-up call.

ETA: I should have put my "IMO" since I'm even accusing "some" school board members of being corrupt, LOL

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 11:26 AM
Actually, I think I preferred living with my head stuck in the sand. The more I hear and learn, the angrier I get.

Yes, the ignorance is bliss, but it only works for so long.

I actually stayed (somewhat) interested in the new Transportation Bill for two years, because many years ago, I worked for a company that sold highway safety products. Much of the sales were for, obviously, highway constructions products, supported by federal highway funds. I didn't work in the Sales side, so I am not an expert on this, but IIRC, the contract would be awarded to a state, of which a certain % is matched by the federal $. So, since the Highway Bill expired about 2 years ago, funds started drying up, and states would put construction on hold, because they wouldn't get matching federal funds.

That's all great and fine, but knowing how many proposals came from Congressmen and Senators that were really just "helping my constituants - read Buddy- back in my District" that were true pork barrel type projects (or should I say POTATO instead), it makes ya sick. Since I did follow it somewhat over the last 2 years, I will say a lot of the delay was Bush's threat to veto, to cut the massive bill down, trying to get rid of a lot of the POTATO barrel projects out, but obviously not all! I think, IIRC, the original proposal was about $350 billion, and it passed at $287 billion.

Read more, and you'll just get even sicker.

Dara
09-07-2005, 11:37 AM
Dara, I wholeheartedly agree. I just wish we knew how to make wide, sweeping changes. It's frustrating as hell. From local school board elections up to the fed gov't...there is corruption, special interest, favoritism, "what's in it for me - or my buddies" - mentality. :doh: I think even many good-intentioned people run for office, having the intent to change things, shake things up, and then when they get in there, things can get off track because of different pressures, favors, etc. It's sad, really. And I do think those that are career politicians are often the absolute worst. They've been out of touch with reality for joe citizen for way too long.

And yet, I'd still rather live here than anywhere else. We can hope, hope that some changes and more accountability come into play after this. This had damn sure be a wake-up call. I agree. I would rather live here, too. I love my country. And it's so discouraging to see croynism, etc, as you point out, at every level. I said in the political forum that we have to remember this disaster and demand answers and accountability because we love this country and want it to be great.

We're all talking about the old articles about Brown's appointment being inappropriate and the levees being weak and on and on. Today we are and tomorrow we will be reading the stories that outraged citizens will be posting and debating about some future disaster if we don't take action (sadly, possibly even if we do). Did we all read the articles about the weak levees and the refusal of the government to pay for fixing them and articles about these ridiculous expenditures, cluck or swear, then turn the page? Did we know Bush was appointing buddies and shrug it off because we're just one person? Did we read the many articles that Brown give $31 million dollars in hurricane to an area not hit by a hurricane and distribute funeral benefits when no one died and not say, "Hey, wait, this guy is in charge of FEMA. What the heck happens when it's lives at stake, not just money?" Why didn't we see that and band together and demand a better man for a job that can impact every American life?

I think we can make changes. Look at what happened with Cindy Sheehan. Not from a partisan view. Strictly as an example. She is one woman who may have started a movement that may affect change. Look at how John Walsh took a tragedy and helped saved missing children. I know that doesn't sound political, but he's impacted public policy. There are examples of one person starting an agent for tremendous change. It can be done. We've got a lot of new sources. We've got the Internet to rally folks. We've got good people. I think we just need to remember that we knew about most of the factors that worsened this disaster and we did little or nothing. I'm going to be better informed and really think about what I'm reading and hearing on the news. Consider what the ramifications are in way I never have before and make sure I act. At least I'm going to try.

less0305
09-07-2005, 11:46 AM
Every administration has government waste. Look up the same types of spending in all administrations. As I said here a few days ago....during the Clinton administration and FEMA was of a different structure we had a tornado with deaths. You can not imagine the money people got who did not suffer any damage - and were proud of it....laughed, made fun of the government, "Yeah, I got my house remodeled, hahahaha, go on down there and apply for the funds. You'll get it too." This from a man who had ONE piece of siding blown off of his house. He got a remodel of the INSIDE of his house!!!! New bathrooms, new kitchen, the works!!!! For a crummy piece of siding that fell off his house. You would NOT believe what "volunteers" were paid by FEMA. You simply would not believe the money people got that "just wanted to be of some help." Once they found out money was being handed out left and right.....they were in line with hands full of "bills to be paid."

Don't think this is anything new. It's been around for ages and ages and ages. Why weren't the people of Louisiana up in arms and massing together and demanding that their elected officials made sure they got the government funds? Who did they elect in past years to help secure funding? Who did they elect this time around to help secure funding?

Yeah, I hate to think money went to Cowgirl Hall of Fame....I'm outraged!

But it is something each and every person has to take an interest in ALL THE TIME and not just when a disaster strikes. How many people attend their city council meetings? How many people visit their legislators? I work in Government - last month we had ONE citizen attend our council meeting. ONE. ONE person was interested in what their city government was doing.

It's accountability all right. But accountability begins at home, so to speak.

Dara
09-07-2005, 11:47 AM
Yes, the ignorance is bliss, but it only works for so long.
I didn't cut for disagreement but for space. This morning I woke up and heard that last night Chertoff went into a meeting and said conditions in the Superdome weren't as bad as reported. First he didn't even know. But that's trivial compared to the fact that he's the head of Homeland Security and when people are still in need of rescue, he is spinning!

And we've seen story after story about how there are still the same kinds of errors happening. Aid isn't getting through. Trained firefighters are handing out flyers and sitting in hotels wanting to go help. And Chertoff is spinning.

When I posted about this in another thread, all I got was, "It's the mayor fault that people were there." Even if that's true, why was there absolutely no reaction to Chertoff's comment?. That's of immediate concern because he may be the person calling the shots. Have we already stopped caring what the guys in charge (who didn't know what was going on when we all did) are doing now? Their job performance can still mean life or death to some people and he's covering his ass!

Why aren't we asking if he's still in charge?

Why aren't we upset that he's more interested in downplaying what we all saw with our own eyes that?

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 11:56 AM
Does it make sense that I can agree with both Dara and Less at the same time?! You both make very good points. :)

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 12:05 PM
Every administration has government waste. Look up the same types of spending in all administrations. As I said here a few days ago....during the Clinton administration and FEMA was of a different structure we had a tornado with deaths. You can not imagine the money people got who did not suffer any damage - and were proud of it....laughed, made fun of the government, "Yeah, I got my house remodeled, hahahaha, go on down there and apply for the funds. You'll get it too." This from a man who had ONE piece of siding blown off of his house. He got a remodel of the INSIDE of his house!!!! New bathrooms, new kitchen, the works!!!! For a crummy piece of siding that fell off his house. You would NOT believe what "volunteers" were paid by FEMA. You simply would not believe the money people got that "just wanted to be of some help." Once they found out money was being handed out left and right.....they were in line with hands full of "bills to be paid."

Don't think this is anything new. It's been around for ages and ages and ages. Why weren't the people of Louisiana up in arms and massing together and demanding that their elected officials made sure they got the government funds? Who did they elect in past years to help secure funding? Who did they elect this time around to help secure funding?

Yeah, I hate to think money went to Cowgirl Hall of Fame....I'm outraged!

But it is something each and every person has to take an interest in ALL THE TIME and not just when a disaster strikes. How many people attend their city council meetings? How many people visit their legislators? I work in Government - last month we had ONE citizen attend our council meeting. ONE. ONE person was interested in what their city government was doing.

It's accountability all right. But accountability begins at home, so to speak.

Oh, absolutely, this is nothing new. Just coming up to the surface again.

Re city council meetings - I'm guilty. I have never witnessed one as a "citizen." I have been at a few when it related to a topic on the agenda that affected my agency, and therefore, my job. And we were there to hear the discussions, as it pertained to our "special interest," so to speak. What was important to where we were going to be housing some of our own employees that were assisting City services and city revenue! And watching the council fight amongst themselves. At least it wasn't all "yes men." There was real divide.

When I lived in CA, we had to start providing security at a certain city's council meetings, after a shooting. A neighborly spat turned deadly at the council meeting! And one of the council members was deeply involved in that neighborhood dispute. :banghead:

Government waste, mis-use. Yep, nothing new and it goes on. No different than many private companies. And yet I had an eye-opening experience when I started working here. One of my co-workers was killed in the line of duty. Do you think our own department could purchase a wreath or flowers for his funeral? Absolutely not. Public funds can't be used for that. So employees contribute to our own little "flower fund." I thought that was sad. I'm getting way off track. Never mind. :slap:

Dara
09-07-2005, 12:15 PM
Don't think this is anything new. It's been around for ages and ages and ages. Why weren't the people of Louisiana up in arms and massing together and demanding that their elected officials made sure they got the government funds? Who did they elect in past years to help secure funding? Who did they elect this time around to help secure funding?


At the risk of making DD faint, I will agree. In my post, I spoke to factors that relate to this disaster that we had foreknowledge of, but I don't know about local and state issues. I do know about Brown and Bush and the levees. But it does have to be at all levels.

In most cases, we have warning. Like the articles about Brown and Hurricane Frances. Or his appointment. It must have been the same for Louisiana. I'm sure not everything was telegraphed but some things were.

I try to walk the walk. I can do better, but I am constantly improving. And, yeah, I go to some meetings. Where do y'all think I learned to go on and on about an issue?

cynder
09-07-2005, 12:24 PM
You are so right- but it seems that the only ones running for office are career politicians.
Follow the money. No ordinary American can run for office and win without a HUGE bankroll. That bankroll comes from political parties, populated by career politicians who are in turn bankrolled by private interests. They choose the person who can bring the most ADDITIONAL money to the table and who will most benefit THEM.
Again FOLLOW THE $$$. If GW Bush had not passed out Govt Jobs like "frequent big donor rewards" to his friends and supporters perhaps we would have a FEMA Director who had disaster experience and a Homeland Security Chief who had a clue. And WHY is FEMA part of Homeland Security anyway? The huge majority of their work has NOTHING to do with Homeland Security. The job of leading FEMA should return to it's prexisting position as a cabinet level post AND should be removed from Homeland Security. Obviously this new arrangement is NOT WORKING! It may put more money into the war budget this way but at what cost in human lives and suffering here at home?
UGHHH - it's ALWAYS about the money in politics. It's just a huge Govt Shell Game and the US people are the "marks". We can't win. The game isn't designed that way - only to continue to fool us into thinking if we just do everything right, we CAN beat the odds fixed against us. As people keep saying - fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on ME. When do the American people make their anthem "I Won't Be Fooled Again"???

Mabel
09-07-2005, 12:31 PM
................. As people keep saying - fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on ME. ................

Or, in the words of George Bush: "There's an old saying in Tennessee. I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee, that says: "Fool me once..... shame on...Shame on you...If fooled, you can't get fooled again."

less0305
09-07-2005, 12:31 PM
I try to walk the walk. I can do better, but I am constantly improving. And, yeah, I go to some meetings. Where do y'all think I learned to go on and on about an issue?

Thank you for your comments Dara. And I will also say that I've been in the private sector for many years before coming to work for at one time a state goverment agency and now a local municipal government.....I didn't always participate in government affairs before. I read about issues and I voted. That's about it. But now that I have some working experience in government I really can see both sides of a lot of issues. We cut funding in the police department to buy something in the fire department and the police chief goes nuts. We cut something in the fire department to buy a piece of needed equipment in the police department and the firemen go nuts. Some things the city (that I live in and vote in - as well as work in) funds just drive me absolutely nuts. $35,000 for a gazebo!!!! I'd rather have another police car on the streets. But there is so much of our population that screams for recreation funds for things like gazebos and will say "what your police department does, they can do in a phone booth." It's frustrating as all hell.

less0305
09-07-2005, 12:39 PM
If GW Bush had not passed out Govt Jobs like "frequent big donor rewards" to his friends and supporters perhaps we would have a FEMA Director who had disaster experience and a Homeland Security Chief who had a clue.

Doesn't every president appoint their own people? I didn't like some of President Clinton's appointees. I also didn't like some of Clinton's pardons of his friends. I didn't like how FEMA handled our natural disaster during the Clinton Administration. But I still love my country and can't think of a single place I'd rather live.

TexMex
09-07-2005, 12:43 PM
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200509\NAT2005 0907a.html


article about levee funding and levee boards


CNSNews.com) - The Bush administration is being widely criticized for the emergency response to Hurricane Katrina and the allegedly inadequate protection for "the big one" that residents had long feared would hit New Orleans. But research into more than ten years of reporting on hurricane and flood damage mitigation efforts in and around New Orleans indicates that local and state officials did not use federal money that was available for levee improvements or coastal reinforcement and often did not secure local matching funds that would have generated even more federal funding.

Dara
09-07-2005, 12:45 PM
Thank you for your comments Dara. And I will also say that I've been in the private sector for many years before coming to work for at one time a state goverment agency and now a local municipal government.....I didn't always participate in government affairs before. I read about issues and I voted. That's about it. But now that I have some working experience in government I really can see both sides of a lot of issues. We cut funding in the police department to buy something in the fire department and the police chief goes nuts. We cut something in the fire department to buy a piece of needed equipment in the police department and the firemen go nuts. Some things the city (that I live in and vote in - as well as work in) funds just drive me absolutely nuts. $35,000 for a gazebo!!!! I'd rather have another police car on the streets. But there is so much of our population that screams for recreation funds for things like gazebos and will say "what your police department does, they can do in a phone booth." It's frustrating as all hell.
I get that. I appreciate my local government but I know part of it is that the citizenry is unusually informed and involved. It's common knowledge that you have to get to city council meetings early or walk for blocks and stand in the back. These are just routine meetings. I was "warned" (nicely) that in our neighborhood, people know if you don't vote and don't approve. So is my government so good because of citizen involvement? Do they know we hold them accountable so they do a better job? Or are we involved because they're so good! I suspect it's the former, and that's why I'm so big on accountability.

Dara
09-07-2005, 12:48 PM
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=\Nation\archive\200509\NAT2005 0907a.html (http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewNation.asp?Page=%5CNation%5Carchive%5C200509%5 CNAT20050907a.html)


article about levee funding and levee boards


CNSNews.com) - The Bush administration is being widely criticized for the emergency response to Hurricane Katrina and the allegedly inadequate protection for "the big one" that residents had long feared would hit New Orleans. But research into more than ten years of reporting on hurricane and flood damage mitigation efforts in and around New Orleans indicates that local and state officials did not use federal money that was available for levee improvements or coastal reinforcement and often did not secure local matching funds that would have generated even more federal funding.
I believe that's the same article KrazyCoillector posted and warned me of its conservative bent. So, agenda? Maybe someone should start a levee thread and keep all those links in one place so we can sift through the ones blaming the different levels of government. With them thrown in here, it's hard to get the truth. Isn't that what we all want? ;)

TexMex
09-07-2005, 12:53 PM
I believe that's the same article KrazyCoillector posted and warned me of its conservative bent. So, agenda? Maybe someone should start a levee thread and keep all those links in one place so we can sift through the ones blaming the different levels of government. With them thrown in here, it's hard to get the truth. Isn't that what we all want? ;)


Don't worry----there's criticism of the Bush Admin too.
Read the article...I only posted the 1st paragraph. Of course we want the truth , even if some corruption of the local levee boards or incompetence
in Baton Rouge is exposed.

Dara
09-07-2005, 12:56 PM
Don't worry----there's criticism of the Bush Admin too.
Read the article...I only posted the 1st paragraph. Of course we want the truth , even if some corruption of the local levee boards or incompetence
in Baton Rouge is exposed.
I wasn't worried. I pointed out that KK posted it earlier and warned me of its conservative bent. It can criticize the Bush adminitrastion and still be skewed to the right.

I also suggested that since the levee situation is a complex issue perhaps it would be good to have a thread just to dissect it.

It might be a good time for us to stop making assumptions about what other are thinking and just discuss the facts. You may not agree, but I think it's been disruptive.

cynder
09-07-2005, 01:09 PM
Doesn't every president appoint their own people? I didn't like some of President Clinton's appointees. I also didn't like some of Clinton's pardons of his friends. I didn't like how FEMA handled our natural disaster during the Clinton Administration. But I still love my country and can't think of a single place I'd rather live.
Of course every President chooses his Cabinet BUT Clinton's choice had years of disaster experience and IMO did a FAR superior job to Brown - who was FIRED from his last job running a horse related business for 11 years. WHAT experience did Brown gain in that job that made him a good choice for the director of FEMA? I'm not being partisan, just logical. In ANY organization the job should go to the most experienced person you can find. Were there NO Republicans who were better qualified? Guliani maybe?
Pardons and personal faults have nada to do with this situation. Neither does patriotism or being proud to be an American. No true American loves the USA any less or wants to leave. What we do want (and deserve) are the best people doing the best work they can do. Brown (and to some extent Chertoff) are not the best people doing their best work. These guys are OUR EMPLOYEES, paid by us - does anyone really believe we are getting the best value for our money based on their actions and job performance over the last week? As their boss, it is Bush's responsibility. The buck must stop somewhere and like it or not, spin aside, as far as the Federal response, that means GW Bush. Plenty of blame and recriminations left for Nagin and Blanco and all the others in LA, MS and AL.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 01:33 PM
Thank you for your comments Dara. And I will also say that I've been in the private sector for many years before coming to work for at one time a state goverment agency and now a local municipal government.....I didn't always participate in government affairs before. I read about issues and I voted. That's about it. But now that I have some working experience in government I really can see both sides of a lot of issues. We cut funding in the police department to buy something in the fire department and the police chief goes nuts. We cut something in the fire department to buy a piece of needed equipment in the police department and the firemen go nuts. Some things the city (that I live in and vote in - as well as work in) funds just drive me absolutely nuts. $35,000 for a gazebo!!!! I'd rather have another police car on the streets. But there is so much of our population that screams for recreation funds for things like gazebos and will say "what your police department does, they can do in a phone booth." It's frustrating as all hell.

Less, I swear you are my cyber-twin sometimes! That is EXACTLY what it's like. I first worked in private business; then local muni, and now State. And that is EXACTLY what real life budget considerations are like. Every year. There will never be enough gov't funds to go around, as we are all screaming as citizens to decrease taxes.

Mabel
09-07-2005, 01:35 PM
Since the title of this thread is money:

$2,000 debit cards for Katrina victims (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9241177/)

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 01:41 PM
At the risk of making DD faint, I will agree.


Where do y'all think I learned to go on and on about an issue?

You gave me some good snickers there, thanks! :o