Ok Im very P'D off now [Archive] - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

aussieblue

09-05-2005, 07:01 PM

The reason why I’m P’D Off is that even after what I posted the other day about what some of the tourists/and their families are saying in our media and others (tv, talkback, etc) this post below gets posted in the “sound off” thread (and of course I cant reply there so hence the reason for this thread now). Now I don’t want to single out MM here because that wouldn’t be fair as MM isn’t the only one who has complained about the other countries/tourists/their families etc.

So I’ve gone back and found some of the posts from the other day. So to these posters and to any others who are pissed about the tourists/other countries I ask you to please read some of the following info with an open mind and then maybe you might be a bit more understanding on WHY a lot of tourist, their countries, their family are P’D Off and saying so.

My apologies in advance as this is going to be huge BECAUSE I’m going to reply to these post Plus I’m going to post again some of the info that I posted a couple of days ago Plus im going to link articles.

Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeh here goes

Melissa Marshall I am SO SICK and tired of people blaming The President over this tragedy. That is the most rediculous thing I have heard. I am so sick of people turning this into race. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE.

I am sick of other countries bitching because their people were not saved fast enough. Uh hello there were alot of people not saved. What were we suppose to do say "go find the tourists and leave the others behind???"

Blues comment * MM if you keep reading you will find out why a lot of these countries are angry because many of their people where just abandoned by tour operators/companies, your government and officals (this was even before Katrina hit) AND also the most disgusting one of all. After tourists payed for their own evacuation buses YOUR Government took the buses all 20 of them. Articles following about your Governemnt taking buses paid for by these tourists and their families.Oh yeh and then the tourists were left and told to walk to the convention center, if im remembering right this was wedneday.
BTW our government offered your government help with teams of emergency relief workers. These are the same ones who went to Bali and to the Asian Tsunami etc. Your government REJECTED the offer they stated (and i have linked this before in another post) only Americans will be evacuating because of the lawlessness that is happening.

:waitasec: Ok so all our countries (not just aussies) where told you have to wait we will get your people out, its just to dangerous.
Well if it was so dangerous how come all the media was walking/driving/boating around?????????
Aussie media was there, they filmed in the dome and at the convention centre, Uk media, your media etc etc
So medias ok BUT NOT our gov emergency relief workers, Not the UK's etc ???????? :rolleyes: I wonder why that was???????

Oh and btw Since our media was allowed in they just happened to know where some of our people where so they just picked them up along the way.
So that actually saved some seats for others on those evacuation buses. Oh and they also took out some elderly sick americans, you see our media was driving in, in the morning, going back out of NO for lunchbreak, driving back in after lunch and driving out before the curfew :D . All those trips back and forth ment empty seats, so why not fill them. :D
Funny thing though our media apparently got in trouble for taking our people out?????????? Figure that out!

less0305 And yet the MAYOR sent buses to collect tourists from the Hyatt and put them AHEAD of the line at the superdome to get them out. Tourists who were not dirty, hungry, and living in the cesspool of the dome for four days were taken out on buses BEFORE those less fortunate at the MAYOR'S direction

Ummmmmmm less you need to read on as well. Tourists werent dirty,hungry living in a cesspool at the dome??????? Total crap, some of them at the hyatt were from the Dome and they got taken from there because your thugs where hunting them down. PLUS some of these tourist actually paid for their own evacuation buses BUT YOUR GOV took them.
Now since family members living here (im talking aussieland) actually helped with paying for those buses BUT when they turned up (buses) your gov (FEMA) commendeered them *sp* and just left those tourist to walk the streets hmmmmmm well families where pretty pissed and boy did they let our gov know. Not just the families though, the aussie public too oh and the media. Now the same goes with the UK, Ireland etc etc

Then those buses turned up for those at the hyatt. :rolleyes:
BUT the prob was not all tourist where at the hyatt who paid for those buses, nope, and a lot on those buses werent even tourists apparently. The tourists who paid for them were kicked out of the hotel they were at (not the hyatt) and those people who paid for those buses where stranded at the over pass and alse where.
Also some aussies who paid for those buses didnt even get out by YOUR people they ended up being rescued on Saturday and Sunday by OUR media (channel 7 and channel 9).
How happy do you think the families are of the young females in their 20's who helped get those buses (lots of phone calls etc from here in australia to the US) only to have them taken by your gov.

I'll be posting the articls and links about the buses so read on

aussieblue

09-05-2005, 07:12 PM

The posts I posted 2 days ago (I think it was) mentioned about an aussie couple who was abandoned by their tour company prior to Katrina hitting. They were on a, I think, 2 week bus tour traveling through out the area. Tours, hotels meals etc all included. They were supposed to be in NO for a 5 day stay, they were there 3 days when the evacuation order came in. So the aussies ask the tour operator, “when are we evacuating?”. Their reply was “we are getting things organized, just be ready” Well they were ready and had even rang back home to their family and said “Don’t panic we are leaving soon every things getting organized”. The people at the Hotel also contacted the tour operator about when would they be picking up their group of tourists because they were evacuating themselves.
The day before Katrina hit, the tourists were evacuated BUT not out of NO they were only evacuated from their hotel, because it was in the danger area for flooding.
Plus it was the police who helped the tourists to the Dome, not the tour operator. That Tour Operator, well, who knows what happened to them?????????? they never ever did turned up with the bus to pick up the tourists.

BTW there was not only aussie on that bus tour, there was also Chinese, American, Brits, Swedes, so a mixture of countries and they were all in there 50’s or over.

No we all know about what happened over there with those gangs etc and Im not sure how this happened but some of those tourists from that bus tour got taken from the Dome by police when the raping, murdering first started. They were taken to the Hyatt where a lot of other tourists had been taken because they were being threatened and bashed for their supplies even. I believe it was a swede in his late 50’s that was attacked for the 2 bottles of water he was holding Oh and while this thug was stealing these peoples supplies he also took the guys watch.

**So a lot of tourists were in the Dome before Katrina hit and they were there even when all those gangs started. It was because OF THOSE GANGS that tourists were getting removed by police and actually while moving some tourists that’s when they started shooting at the cops and the cops took off. The group of young aussie tourists (the ones rescued by OUR MEDIA guys) were there when it happened.

bulletgirl2002
But there are so many others too....I understand your concern for your own people, but I don't think they should be gotten out ahead of the others who live there. They are in just as much danger as the tourists.

bulletgirl2002
Yes, I did complain about healthy tourist people getting out before the residents who were sick and elderly. Is that fair???? I think it was handled horribly. The tourists are all out and still many of the residents are not. So what do they have to complain about?

Blue comment** Bulletgirl , I went through all this the other day. You kept saying the tourists were all out, they’re not even all out now and the Domes empty and the centers empty.
Did the aussie lady who stopped to help the elderly American people who were just left behind by careers, is she out NO she’s trapped with them and she rang her mum (after Katrina hit) in Australia and even told her where she is, who she’s with, plus no water, food etc PLUS water rising slowly and a elderly lady is in a wheel chair. She told her mum tell them to help get the word out to where we are trappd, we cant get to the roof, their to elderly. She told her mum, I cant leave them here to drown. Get us help.
Her mum was frantic on tv, she just kept saying please someone help her with those elderly people. The last time she heard from her daughter was Wednesday I think.
BTW your gov (someone in Washington) told the mum there wasn’t anything they could do until the lawlessness was under control.

OH and btw I gave you the link about the mayor of NO saying the tourists were worst off because they don’t even know the area PLUS they are getting attacked by your people EVEN the police chief said that. But I’ll add that link again incase you missed it.
This crap about healthy clean tourists it just that crap. How can the aussie tourists (you know the ones who paid for those buses your FEMA took) how can they be clean when they had been walking around the town, they were stranded under or near that bridge/underpass for 3 days with those corpses and rubbish etc????????

Marthatex
Registered User
Shepard Smith
I was just watching Shepard Smith and he is doing the greatest job! He is sincere; he cares
He told O'Reilly he is just beside himself because of what he has seen and the frustration.
He says the trouble is the lack of a strong leader; ie like New York had Julianni He said the the mayor of NO took some people from a hotel (they were from other states and other countries) and put them in FRONT of the people who had been waiting for ours by the dome (I guess to be evacuated)

Blues comment*** Sorry marthatex I disagree about Shepard doing a great job. His comments that you posted above is what started all this anger crap about tourists getting out before your people.
Also did Shepard mention that tourists paid for their own evacuation buses (20 of them) but the tourists didn’t get those buses FEMA did instead.
OOPPPS he forgot that didn’t he PLUS those buses were taken by FEMA days before the Hyatt was evacuated
Hmmmmmmmm so it seems the tourists didn’t get put in FRONT like you stated, they actually got put way back because they lost their buses plus got tossed out of that hotel.

TisHerself

09-05-2005, 07:27 PM

Aussie I have said before I agree with you I will probably not be popular either but my family lives in UK. They have been telling me exactly what you are saying British tourists who paid for their own buses, those buses where taken away from them and they were left stranded. Some of those tourists were KICKED out of their hotels and some of them were rescued by their own news station trucks. British tourists Aussie Tourists, other Tourists who HAD paid for their own Buses that had been taken from them were sleeping under and on bridges. Britain is pretty ticked off at the way their tourists were treated. So I can imagine Australia is is too and I do not see any way that America can't redeem itself here sorry.

concernedperson

09-05-2005, 07:32 PM

This is pretty powerful stuff and very disheartening.I hope you know that not all Americans are like that. Pretty lame right now but I can't redeem any situation as I am still reeling and still looking for loved ones. Not my immediate family but friends and extended family. It will be weeks before we know. Even Donna Brazile (from New Orleans) and well connected politically can't get the answers she needs.

SieSie

09-05-2005, 07:37 PM

I don't know what all played into the tourists being evacuated before some locals, but I think it actually makes sense. The tourists have a place to go to - they don't need shelters, they can go back to their respective states or countries, so it kinda makes sense to me to get the people out who have somewhere to go, so they won't be in the way of those who need the emergency shelters and food and water supplies.
JMO

aussieblue

09-05-2005, 07:40 PM

Dark Knight
(AP) At one point, the evacuation was interrupted briefly when school buses rolled up so some 700 guests and employees from the Hyatt Hotel could move to the head of the evacuation line — much to the amazement of those who had been crammed in the stinking Superdome since Sunday."How does this work? They (are) clean, they are dry, they get out ahead of us?" exclaimed Howard Blue, 22, who tried to get in their line. The National Guard blocked him as other guardsmen helped the well-dressed guests with their luggage.

The 700 had been trapped in the hotel, next to the Superdome, but conditions were considerably cleaner, even without running water, than the unsanitary crush inside the dome. The Hyatt was severely damaged by the storm. Every pane of glass on the riverside wall was blown out.

Mayor Ray Nagin has used the hotel as a base since it is across the street from city hall, and there were reports the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.
National Guard Capt. John Pollard called the decision to move the Hyatt people to the head of the line "very poor."

Blues comment** same as the above PLUS I think that National Guard Capt comment is laughable CONSIDERING his people where the ones who threatened and shot over the heads of those (busless, tossed out into the street, lost and confused tourists) who were walking down a road that they were told to walk down hmmmmmm and who told them to walk down that way lol you guessed it.

Oh and by the way did you notice above (darknights post) why they got bused out …. there were reports the hotel was cleared with priority to make room for police, firefighters and other officials.
I bolded to show how wrong this article was. Some of those tourits where in the Dome before Katrina hit. PLUS notice EMPLOYEES yep apparently LOTS of employees (hotel,gov,etc and their families) SOOOOOOOO not bus loads of tourists from the HYATT at all.
Oh and lets remember they got out BEFORE some of the ones who paid for those buses did
Hmmmmmmmmm Shepard forgot to mention that too.

********Ok so here are some links.
Now when you read these about the buses please take this into account. Some in that hotel (not the hyatt) where taken there to ride out the storm (higher ground). There were tourist there who couldn’t get out of NO and also the ones who where abandoned by the tour operators etc.

They were there in that hotel BEFORE Katrina hit!
Them and the MANY other tourists JOINED together in trying to get help (so e.g. contacting there governments/embassies/family/friends etc).

Also as stated in the articles the management/staff of the hotel were helping in securing buses for these tourists after Katrina had past. So this organizing was well known to families/friends/embasseys etc before it hit.
Now those aussie families were ringing the US checking making sure everything was ready to get their family members out as soon as possible after Katrina.
OH yeh and of course PAYING the money for their family members seats on those buses

Those 20 buses where to be at the hotel on Wednesday and I think it was Wednesday night 9.30 pm they were told those buses had been taken by FEMA and they were told to evacuate the Hotel by foot to the center.

Just imagine how all those families/hotel management/etc must have felt, they did all the hard work and your gov just stopped them (buses) once they got to NO and said “thanks your now ours”.

Now for all those complaining about the Hyatt evacuation, when was that???????

I believe it may have been Saturday and if you read the article those people who paid for the buses weren’t even at the Hyatt.
Plus the Hyatt only got evacuated because they (mayor etc) wanted the building for housing police etc.

**SIGH** and people are complaining about the tourist getting special treatment and that the tourists shouldnt have gotten out before the residents

:rolleyes:
************************************

Tourists find themselves trapped in New Orleans

Five days after Susan Dewey arrived in New Orleans to celebrate her birthday, she was so desperate to get out that she banded with hundreds of other tourists to hire 10 buses for $25,000 to rescue them.
After waiting hours, they learned government officials had commandeered their buses to evacuate others.

"We're the forgotten about," Dewey told The Associated Press in a telephone interview Thursday. "The Louisiana officials are trying to get their people out. They don't care about us."
The hurricane hit Monday. The flooding and looting began Tuesday. By Wednesday, Dewey was stealing to eat.

The handful of managers left at the hotel told guests they had booked 10 buses for $25,000 to evacuate them and those from the Crowne Plaza Astor Downtown. Each passenger paid $45. The hotel staff began lining up elderly and ill people outside about 7:30 p.m.
"I couldn't count how many wheelchairs you saw," Dewey said.
The guests waited until 9:30 p.m. when a manager told them the buses were confiscated by the military.

That day, police went door-to-door to order local residents out of the hotel and to the New Orleans Convention Center, Dewey said.

Also planning to leave on one of the buses was Bill Hedrick, a Houston oilman, and his family, including his mother-in-law, who uses a walker.
"We kept hearing they were coming, they were coming," he said. When the crowd learned the buses would never arrive, "everyone was totally stunned," said Hedrick, who moved on to the convention center.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/weather/090105_APkatrina_tourists.html

Cypros

09-05-2005, 07:53 PM

Interesting. The American and other forieng tourists in Thailand and Indonesia were given extra special care last year after falling victim to the tsunami. There were numerous stories of locals putting aside their own needs to help tourists who were extra confused in an unfamiliar place. We were pretty pleased about the VIP treatment for our fellow Americans. Too bad we don't wish to extend the same care when the shoe is on the other foot.

It doesn't sound like the tourists were expecting to get special treatment, but if they arranged for their own evacation they have every right to be angry that their buses were stolen from them.

I read on the Independent that there are 150 Britons unaccounted for.

TisHerself

09-05-2005, 08:12 PM

aussieblue

09-05-2005, 08:17 PM

Police fired warning shots, New Orleans tourists tell

Frightened Japanese, European and American tourists say police fired over their heads to end their attempt to leave New Orleans.

Stranded since Hurricane Katrina hit the city on Monday, the 200 tourists were thrown out of their hotel on Thursday morning and said they were confronted by police as they attempted to get to buses to take them to safety.
Turned back to the centre of New Orleans, where looters were still roaming the lawless streets, the tourists huddled together on their suitcases under a pavilion next to the Mississippi River.

The hotel in the French Quarter told the tourists to leave as their safety could no longer be guaranteed.
The tourists said police gave them conflicting information.
At one stage they were told to head to the Superdome arena or the city's convention centre, where deadly shootings and rapes have been reported among thousands of refugees.
Later, the tourists were told to make their way to a highway overpass where buses would take them to safety.

The tourists dragged their suitcases through a notoriously dangerous inner-city neighbourhood, got drenched in a thunderstorm and were then turned back.

"All of a sudden, police cruisers rushed in with sirens blaring," said Patty Murphy, a 57-year-old saleswoman from Massachussetts.
"They were shooting over our heads telling us to go back."

"We are tourists. We don't know how to get around, how to protect ourselves. It is like being in a jungle," she said.

Disorganised authorities

Many tourists say they feel tremendous sympathy for the people who have lost everything in the disaster.
But they also questioned the lack of organisation by authorities.

"It is incredible that a country as powerful as the United states with its huge military cannot do better than this," said 18-year-old Aitor Fuste from Barcelona, Spain.

The tourists spent the night under the concrete pavilion hoping they would be safe and trying their best to comfort each other.
"We are obviously very happy to be alive," said Genie Whitfield from Leitrin in Ireland, who was on her honeymoon in New Orleans.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1452073.htm

PS So much for nice clean healthy tourist

************************************

Tourists trapped in New Orleans realize they're afterthought, band together

First the U.S. government took the buses they hired to evacuate themselves. Then their hotels turned them out onto the desolate streets.

They trudged for blocks to walk over a bridge, but police wouldn't let them cross - and fired a few warning shots over their heads to convince them not to try. By this time nightfall was coming. Despairing, dozens of trapped tourists huddled on a downtown street corner and waited for dark.

"I grew up in an upper-middle class family," said Canadian visitor Larry Mitzel, 53, of Saskatoon. "Street life is foreign to me. I'm not sure I'm going to get out of here alive."

Tourists and hotel managers alike condemned government officials for ignoring them.

Peter Ambros, general manager of the Astor Crowne Plaza in the French Quarter, said guests who bring business to the hotels are "treated 10 times worse than the people at the Superdome."

He helped arrange the hiring of 10 buses to evacuate 500 guests from his and a nearby hotel - at a cost of $25,000 US.

Then the Federal Emergency Management Agency commandeered the buses and police told the guests to go to the nearby convention centre, where a crowd left without food, water or security

Friday morning, the tourists were still there, and still trapped.

http://travel.canoe.ca/Travel/News/2005/09/01/1198037-ap.html

************************************

About 15,000 to 20,000 people who had taken shelter at New Orleans convention center grew increasingly hostile after waiting for buses for days amid the filth and the dead.
Police Chief Eddie Compass said there was such a crush around a squad of 88 officers that they retreated when they went in to check out reports of assaults.
"We have individuals who are getting raped, we have individuals who are getting beaten," Compass said. "Tourists are walking in that direction and they are getting preyed upon."

Tourist Debbie Durso of Washington, Mich., said she asked a police officer for assistance and his response was, '"Go to hell - it's every man for himself.'"

"This is just insanity," she said. "We have no food, no water . . . all these trucks and buses go by and they do nothing but wave."

http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050902/REPOSITORY/509020369/1013/NEWS03

PS IF all the tourists got special treatment (said by some posters and some media) and got out of NO 1st, how come the above tourist is watching buses go by?????
Oh yeh and of course how come some countries are missing there people, people who actually survived the storm????????

Actually on talkback radio here someone said " It pretty obvious why the (US) dont want any emergency relief units from other countries there.
Its because it wouldnt look good for them if tourist are found riddled with bullets. This way they can clear out bullet ridden bodies and no one would be any wiser.

Cypros

09-05-2005, 08:28 PM

I still do not understand why the police were preventing people from walking out of the city. Can somebody please explain this to me?

concernedperson

09-05-2005, 08:37 PM

I still do not understand why the police were preventing people from walking out of the city. Can somebody please explain this to me?

I can't as I explained an evacuation route much earlier. The Cresant City connector was one. I am not truly apprised as most others.

lostfaith

09-05-2005, 08:53 PM

aussieblue

09-05-2005, 09:12 PM

Hey PLEASE do not think that I am blaming all the american plubic
OR
That the aussie tourist are blaming all the american public.

Its just that even though i posted all those post the other day STILL some posters complained about favouritism for the tourists.
That just totally blew me away

So i thought, im going to post it all in 1 spot (even if it killed me) lol
Which it did lol

BUT some aussie tourists/and families are saying there opinion of americans have def changed.
Lots are saying "Dont bother spending your $$$$$$$$$$ there GO TO ASIA instead" lol

One of the older guys (not sure who he was) said ...
"We are supposed to be friends (USA+Aussies)Allies BUT they threw us out on the streets and they saved there own butts. They didnt give a damn, stuff the americans get our military home and stop dealing with them. They call the muslim animals this never happened with the Tsumani"

So there is anger BUT some have spoke well and funny enough it is of the african/american POLICE (not that natl guard, actually they seem to be the worst, they didnt care at all).
It was an AA police guy who helped our media rescue the aussies.
It was a AA police guy who got the ones at the bridge some water and rations. Sadly people saw him helping the tourists and thats when trouble started.

You see thats how it was, the tourists werent to be helped, your people totally stopped then from getting anywhere near any of the supplies, shelters etc.
Like 1 of the tourist said, we stood out like saw thumbs and we had to sneak around that city like rats.

**sighs** thats just so not right and so very sad

~aussieblue

concernedperson

09-05-2005, 09:23 PM

aussieblue

09-05-2005, 09:34 PM

I do not know what to say. I guess before I make a judgement here, I would like to know exactly what the 10 buses that were taken from the tourist were used for. IF tourist were being attacked, it makes sense to evacuate them out of there ahead of the others. But, while I understand other countries being pissed that those buses where taken from their families after the arranged and paid for them, I would first like to know EXACTLY what they were used for instead. IF the buses where used to remove sick children/elderly that were is worse crisis than the tourist, that would influence my feeling on this.

Ok fair enough but how about this (firstly lol it was 20 buses)

Katrina hit your monday, those buses were to be there Wednesday for those paying tourists.

So your people didnt even have anything ready to evacuate your own sick children/elderly people.
As the very angry aussie mum said "we paid and arranged for our own families evacuation, that way it was less of a burden for the americans. We were doing this BEFORE Katrina hit. IF WE COULD DO THAT (get the buses) WHY COULDNT THE AMERICANS DO IT TOO.

oh and BTW if you actually read the links you will see that a lot were elderly and also at one of those links it states "heaps of people/tourists in wheel chairs, she lost count of how many (i think thats what she said)

Its a pretty sad thing actually BECAUSE all your saying is (plus your gov)American lives are worth more than your tourists lives.

Oh and btw what about that Hyatt, lots of those people where americans (hotel mployess and their familys plus gov officals) THEY left in buses BEFORE the tourists that paid for the buses left.
Those people werent badly sick, they were american employees and our people were still fearing for their lives because of your people and hiding under bridges etc.

BTW we are (all the countries involved) also waiting to find out what YOUR gov did with those 20 buses and why you yourselfs (your gov) couldnt get buses.

sheeeeeeeeeeesh you had to rely on tourists to save your people and then what did your people do to the tourists!

*shakes head*

~aussieblue

Jamie

09-05-2005, 09:40 PM

I saw this story about Australian tourists

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/trapped-tourists-tell-of-struggle-to-survive/2005/09/04/1125772411703.html
Jamie

aussieblue

09-05-2005, 10:13 PM

I saw this story about Australian tourists

http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/trapped-tourists-tell-of-struggle-to-survive/2005/09/04/1125772411703.html
Jamie

SNIPPET from Jamies link ...

Their escape from the Superdome had to be clandestine. The tourists left in dribs and drabs, heading for a basketball arena nearby, with the help of an American sergeant.

Some survivors, angry that they were not going too, tried to pull the tourists back inside. "The last people who were walking out the door were grabbed, were screamed at," she said.

These people were escaping an evacuation center because they were getting threatened, harrased and worse by people who are suppose to be our good friends and allies.

Sadly some in that group witnessed the rape of that child and on our news those men and women had tears running down their faces and could hardly speak one guy said "The screams of that kid i'll never forget but mostly i wont forget that people did nothing to stop it, they are animals"
He also said, thats why we had to get the girls out, they were saying/taunting our girls that there next. He kept saying you would not believe what animals they were.

BTW most of these aussies didnt even know one another. They just happened to bump into fellow aussies and also some poms (brits :) ) and these younger ones just stayed together and looked after each other.
You know what you do in times like this, you look after each other.
Well some do!

Tim and Joanne Miller of Rockhampton are expected home by the weekend, after spending two nights under a bridge in New Orleans without money or water.

Their daughter, Tamara Miller, 27, has spoken to them by phone.
"They are happy to be out and all, but they are not themselves … Mum was talking about how she was a coward because she ran away," she said.
"She also told me how she had little pieces of fruit and peanut butter but she was saving them for kids, but then she was talking about how they got out but those little kids are all still there. I think she has that whole survivors' guilt thing."

BTW These people are the ones the natl guards shot at and the mum, well she is not good at all. She was on tv and she has totally broken down.
She just kept saying, babies are dying, old people are dying get them help, help these people.

They are also the ones who got chased/threatened by the thugs and thats why they were hiding under the bridge.

The media have stopped looking for interviews etc unless they/tourists want to talk, because they said people are just falling apart, they are so traumatised.

~aussieblue

GonzoReiter

09-05-2005, 10:34 PM

I still do not understand why the police were preventing people from walking out of the city. Can somebody please explain this to me?
Mayor Nagin's statement re West Bank episode

Quote: Nagin's ire began to rise anew as he recalled a foiled strategy to send able-bodied refugees over the Crescent City Connection to the high ground of the West Bank.

"We were taking in people from St. Bernard Parish," he said. "If we had a bottle of water, we shared it. Then when we were going to let people cross the bridge, they were met with frigging dogs and guns at the Gretna parish line. They said, 'We're going to protect Jefferson Parish assets.'

"Some people value homes, cars and jewelry more than human life. The only escape route was cut off. They turned them back at the parish line."

nola.com Breaking News Log (http://www.nola.com/newslogs/tporleans/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_tporleans/archives/2005_09.html#076756)

lostfaith

09-05-2005, 10:39 PM

Ok fair enough but how about this (firstly lol it was 20 buses)

Katrina hit your monday, those buses were to be there Wednesday for those paying tourists.

So your people didnt even have anything ready to evacuate your own sick children/elderly people.
As the very angry aussie mum said "we paid and arranged for our own families evacuation, that way it was less of a burden for the americans. We were doing this BEFORE Katrina hit. IF WE COULD DO THAT (get the buses) WHY COULDNT THE AMERICANS DO IT TOO.

oh and BTW if you actually read the links you will see that a lot were elderly and also at one of those links it states "heaps of people/tourists in wheel chairs, she lost count of how many (i think thats what she said)

Its a pretty sad thing actually BECAUSE all your saying is (plus your gov)American lives are worth more than your tourists lives.

Oh and btw what about that Hyatt, lots of those people where americans (hotel mployess and their familys plus gov officals) THEY left in buses BEFORE the tourists that paid for the buses left.
Those people werent badly sick, they were american employees and our people were still fearing for their lives because of your people and hiding under bridges etc.

BTW we are (all the countries involved) also waiting to find out what YOUR gov did with those 20 buses and why you yourselfs (your gov) couldnt get buses.

sheeeeeeeeeeesh you had to rely on tourists to save your people and then what did your people do to the tourists!

*shakes head*

~aussieblue

In post # 6, you quoted an article that said 10 buses for $25,000. Which is it, or where these two seperate groups.

I absolutely agree that NO screwed up big time and should have got those sick and elderly out long before katrina hit, and had a better plan in place. They, in my opinion, have a lot to answer for.

I do not care one iota when those buses were arranged, I still hold my ground that if there were sick, elderly, and children that were in worse shape than tourist, they get evacuated first. I believe most people would feel that way. Anyone with a heart would look at a baby dying of dehydration, elderly in a wheelchair and say, take them first.

oh and BTW if you actually read the links you will see that a lot were elderly and also at one of those links it states "heaps of people/tourists in wheel chairs, she lost count of how many (i think thats what she said)

I resent you implying that I am uniformed and do not read. Granted I have not read every single link, but I have read alot, and have watched alot of coverage.

Its a pretty sad thing actually BECAUSE all your saying is (plus your gov)American lives are worth more than your tourists lives.

How dare you, I never said that, NEVER! Go back and re-read my post! Dont forget that all the tourist in NO are not all from other countries, alot of them are from other states in America, NO is a big vacation destination for alot of Americans. I think that is very unfair of you to say that the American government thinks American lives are worth more than tourist, America is a very caring country. You had no right to imply that I said that...Go back and re-read my post!

Oh and btw what about that Hyatt, lots of those people where americans (hotel mployess and their familys plus gov officals) THEY left in buses BEFORE the tourists that paid for the buses left.
Those people werent badly sick, they were american employees and our people were still fearing for their lives because of your people and hiding under bridges etc.

It was not only tourist hiding under bridges fearing for their lives, LOTS of people were and STill are. I am just as angry finding out about employees, and gov. families leaving before the sick and elderly as you are. I am not defending that!

BTW we are (all the countries involved) also waiting to find out what YOUR gov did with those 20 buses and why you yourselfs (your gov) couldnt get buses.

You know, I do not think the way you keep bolding YOUR people and YOUR government is healthy. It is just pitching a YOU against US mentallity, and it is a very accusing tone.

sheeeeeeeeeeesh you had to rely on tourists to save your people and then what did your people do to the tourists!

*shakes head*

Please do not sheeeeesh me and "shake" your head at me. In my response to this thread I had tried to be open minded and not make any judgements until I felt I had the whole story, I thought I had. I made a very short response that I did not think stepped on any toes, but you sure came back at me swinging. I understand you are angry, but I did not deserve that.

aussieblue

09-06-2005, 12:49 AM

Actually lostfaith with what you just (mostly) posted is basicly what ive been saying BUT you skipped some parts

To go down the list ..

Thats why i posted those articles because i would like to know that myself, was there 2 lots, 20 buses and 10 buses or did that 10 buses article get the number wrong.
So its either 20 or 30, which ever it is its still alot of buses that these people could get but your gov couldnt?????????

You said you dont care when they started getting/organising them BUT you should care because if they could (tourists) then your gov should have been able to get them and have them on standby to get those people out. There would have been less delay for those poor people sitting and waiting.

Plus I think it was a Brit who said the ones who got the buses were quiet willing to load in kids/elderly who ever needed getting out. That was the plan
But like she said it didnt matter what their plans were.

NOW these people want to know what happened with those buses BECAUSE since they found out employees etc were taken out before kids/elderly/sick and even before those who paid for them got out. So what was done with them??????
No ones holding there breathe expecting to find out what really happened.
Already theres so much buck passing and spin from your gov depts and i dont think the problem with the tourists will be high on their agenda.

BTW I did post that not all tourists were from other countries (but that could have been the other days post??)
So in those todays links I did purposely look for American tourists who were stranded and in one of those articles its a american women tourists who was complaining about what happened with the buses. Wait on, it was a man, his wife and his elderly mother-inlaw who uses a walker from Texas i think.

He complains because he was told they had to walk to the center and he states about his mother-inlaw and her walker. They actually paid for those buses too. I think thats the link were it states they all lined up ready and waiting for the buses, lots of wheelchairs, the elderly, kids etc first. It sounded very organised actually. Plus they were willing to take others SO i think for sure these people had HEARTS plus very good organising skills.

So i wasnt just singling out aussies or any other country, there was american tourists too, i know that and i included them.

As far as you not being empressed with me implying, well im sorry but you said if the buses were taken to transport the elderly wheelchairs etc you would agree or something like that...Well just as i stated above, in one of the links it actually states that. Lots of wheelchairs elderly and people who needed medication etc. Those were to go first. Thats why i said, about its more important getting yours out because those tourists had the same people as you described.

AND those tourists didnt even get to go on the bus and were there for days later. sheeeeeeeesh think about it WHY couldnt that FEMA take half and leave half for the elderly wheelchair bound tourists. WHY didnt they do that?????????
They took the buses and then told them to evacuate to that centre AND they had to walk there.
Even the american staff couldnt believe that FEMA did that.

I truely cant see how you think thats fair especially when the police chief said those animals/thugs were preying on the tourists.
I think that was said even before the buses were taken, hmmmmmm not sure though???????

BTW the pitching of the You against US mentality and the accusing tone, i think that comes from all those links and stuff.
You know how it stated how those people had to band together, help each other because they couldnt get much help alse where. Oh and of course those gangs who were preying on tourists etc

That mentality isnt nice and i agree with you on that, but as the tourists, the strangers to that city, stated, it was them against us and we had to rely on ourselves mostly. They just seem so in shock about that, as one said "Were in America???".

Thats really sad considering as that old guy said "we are suppose to be friends/allies but when the going got tough they threw us out, they didnt care, they turned on us.

I think thats why i and so many are going through anger,hurt,sadness, just the works because what happened to our people and how they were treated just goes to show this "Allies stick together, unity, help each other blah blah blah that Bush always says is actually total crap, its just a lot of talk

Silly me i have always supported my coutries Prime Minister on his reasonings on why a strong alliance with america is needed. I even voted for him on it. I dont personaly like Bush i think hes weak, hes always got excuses to save his butt and he also lets someone alse take his fall. But i strongly believe in a strong aliance between countries, not only for terrorism but for all things.

No more though not after how my countrymen have been treated and i think you'll find that with alot of those countries who had people treated in such ways.
I know the aussies are and the Brits are furious too, we are furious at our governments.

Im out of here, it does no good anyway

Melissa Marshall

09-06-2005, 01:23 AM

My turn I guess. I would like to say that I was not talking about anyone on here in particular when I stated that I was tired of hearing about the other countries who thought their people should have been evac first. I agree with lostfaith that if the buses were taken from the tourists to rescue someone who was elderly,young or sick then they should go before the tourists. If the tourists fit in that catagory then they should also be taken out first. It is very sad that the Aussies were being tormented and people were seeking them out to hurt them but they are not the minority here. There were other people who were also tormented. My post was to state that we were not to go and find only tourists so that we could keep the peace with other countries. For you to say that we believe that American lives are more important than people from other countries shows that you know nothing about us. Who is the first to come to the aid of other countries? We are. I also agree about the bold YOUR. Doesn't look good in our eyes. I am sorry your people were left to fend for themselves but so were ours. The Mandatory Evacuation was for people who could find their own means to get out of the city. That would include all of our people. They had no bus plans to remove people before the **** hit the fan. People had to pay for them themselves.

spygirl

09-06-2005, 02:34 PM

You know, I don't think the way you keep bolding YOUR people and YOUR government is healthy. It is just pitching a YOU against US mentality, and it is a very accusing tone.I agree, 100%.

Here are just a few comments of an accusatory tone from just ONE of aussie's posts:

YOUR monday....
YOUR people.... (x4)
YOUR own sick....
YOUR gov.... (x3)
YOUR tourists....

First of all, I stopped reading aussie's long-winded, repetitive posts, which do nothing to bolster the lot of us regular, salt-of-the-earth Americans.

While I agree with aussie's bitterness over poor planning on behalf of our government, I would appreciate her not adding insult to injury, over and over and over again.

I think all Americans feel a certain amount of shame with regard to the way this tragedy has unfolded. I would venture to say that the pain runs deep, even among those who are indirectly affected.

WE Americans have pride, WE Americans have strength in facing adversity, and most of us Americans wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I know the final outcome of this tragedy will further unify our citizens, as it always does in any horrific event.

God Bless America!

:blowkiss:

BarnGoddess

09-06-2005, 03:53 PM

I've been silent all weekend, and I finally OD'd on the news yesterday afternoon. I do remember the explanation as to why the mayor escorted the tourists to the busses ahead of the lines. Just like Aussie said, these tourists had paid for buses to take them out. Someone commandeered their transportation. I will applaud the mayor for stepping in to help the tourists. There was no reason their buses should have been taken BEFORE the storm arrived, leaving them stranded. That is plain wrong. Those who arranged for their safe evacuation were stranded unnecessarily.

quote: lostfaith

I do not care one iota when those buses were arranged, I still hold my ground that if there were sick, elderly, and children that were in worse shape than tourist, they get evacuated first. I believe most people would feel that way. Anyone with a heart would look at a baby dying of dehydration, elderly in a wheelchair and say, take them first.

I disagree with your statement. These tourists, wherever they were from, (UK, USA, AUS, China, etc.) arranged for their own evacuation. If their buses were re-routed by city officials, then that was just plain wrong. It was also wrong for any official to commandeer the hotels without arranging for these tourists to be totally evacuated and cared for either.

Just my two cents on this issue.

kez

09-06-2005, 04:18 PM

I think the biggest problem with this situation that people from other countries see is, Media was allowed in but our own embassy staff to locate citizens were not. Offered aid was rejected initially. There is a lot of anger that Aussie's for example were not able to get assistance from Embassy staff because the Authorities refused to allow them in, but allowed the media.

Other countries are gobsmacked that this has been allowed to happen to anyone in a country we believed to be the richest, free country. There is a lot of anger at the moment, that this was allowed to happen to anyone, resident or tourist.

Marstan

09-06-2005, 04:31 PM

I can totally understand why the tourists would be angry, scared, pissed, etc. They did pay for their own buses to take them out. However, I would be more angry at the touring company that DID NOT EVACUATE THEM BEFORE THE HURRICANE HIT. This is totally unacceptable - the tourists should have left New Orleans or not even stopped in NO due to the impending hurricane.

I don't know if the people driving the tourist buses (scheduled to leave AFTER the hurricane hit) would even be able to get out of the area without someone leading them, especially after the levy broke.

We are experiencing something that is so large no one seems organized. I wonder now how people handled the earthquake in CA that was so devistating. The tsnaumi (sp) was horrible in and of itself and it was a third world country, we are supposed to be ready, but are we as a people really prepared for "the big one?" The area of ground that was affected by this hurricane/levy break/flooding is the size of GREAT BRITAIN. It would be as if the whole of the UK were under water. I don't know if the best laid plans could actually be much better.

I will not cast stones at this time, now is the time we must come together to help the people in crisis - there will be "tomorrow" to make those who should be accountable for these mistakes actually accountable.

BarnGoddess

09-06-2005, 04:33 PM

I want to add something for lostfaith. Put this in prospective also, lostfaith. I know your concern for the infants and elderly and even the very poor. I know that you thought it was ok that the buses hired to take the stranded tourists out were used to evacuate others first.

I put it to you to wonder if it would be ok to commandeer private persons who were leaving in their own vehicles, to evacuate those poor and infirm first? There's a limit to this blame game and excusing poor judgment on the part of local officials.

less0305

09-06-2005, 07:39 PM

I put it to you to wonder if it would be ok to commandeer private persons who were leaving in their own vehicles, to evacuate those poor and infirm first? There's a limit to this blame game and excusing poor judgment on the part of local officials.

Actually, many state emergency plans give the Governor, or anyone under his or her order, the right to commandeer any and all private property, food, clothing, transportation, property, buildings, etc. Although it sounds unfair - I think people would be surprised to know how much the government can take from you at a time of crisis. Now, they have to pay you for it or pay you for its use and/or return it to you when they no longer need it, once you file the appropriate forms, filed in triplicate (LOL). Not meaning to argue, Barn. That's not my intention at all!!! Just wanting everyone to realize they may want to look up their individual state's emergency response plans and just see what it is their own state can or cannot do.

lostfaith

09-06-2005, 10:15 PM

There was no reason their buses should have been taken BEFORE the storm arrived, leaving them stranded. That is plain wrong. Those who arranged for their safe evacuation were stranded unnecessarily. ....BarnGoddes......

I might have mis-understood, but I was under the impression that these buses were arranged on Monday,(day of the storm) and arrived on Wed. This is per Aussie's post #6 and #15. So if that info is correct the buses were taken AFTER the storm, not before. I would be really mad at the tourist agent who screwed them over and did not get them out before the storm came. I believe if those buses would have arrived before the storm, they had plenty of notice, they would not have been taken away from them.

That is plain wrong. Those who arranged for their safe evacuation were stranded unnecessarily......BarnGoddes......

In my opinion if the buses were arranged on the day of the storm and came 2 days after (Wed.) then the buses were not arranged for safe evacuation, they were arranged for rescue. Why did they not arrange for them before Katrina? Did they possible think the storm would pass over them and they could continue thier vacation, or were they waiting for the tourist company to come thru for them and they did not?

I do agree with you however on the hotel issue, If they were made to leave they absolutely should have been given and bused to another safe place.

lostfaith

09-06-2005, 10:50 PM

I put it to you to wonder if it would be ok to commandeer private persons who were leaving in their own vehicles, to evacuate those poor and infirm first? There's a limit to this blame game and excusing poor judgment on the part of local officials.

Yes, I do think it is o.k. In the aftermath of the storm, not the evacuation of the storm. In the evacuation of the storm, the government of NO should have provided more help to its citizens in getting out of there before Katrina hit. To commandeer private vehicles at that time would have been wrong, they could have used their school buses or chartered buses for their citizens. In the chaos after the storm, I think it is o.k. to commandeer private vehicles in order to save persons in dire straights. I think it is the moral thing to do.

Now, I do believe these tourist need to be compensated for those buses, they should get back every penny of it, and a apology from NO for not being better prepared. I also think the tourist true anger should be directed at the tourist agency that ditched them. Big lawsuit time in my opinion!

Oh, and before this is brought up, someone said there were also elderly and wheelchair bound tourist, well they should have been taken out with those buses too. They are exactly the kind of people who should have been among the top priority.