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poco
09-06-2005, 08:05 AM
What is our country coming to when they rip a little dog from a little boy's arms - a boy who has already been through so much emotional stress??? God bless us all!

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050904072509990001&ncid=NWS00010000000001

Gabby
09-06-2005, 08:11 AM
My heart bleeds for the little boy and Snowball... and as for the person who ripped that dog out of the child's arms... I hope it haunts him day and night for the rest of his miserable days... JMO

poco
09-06-2005, 08:40 AM
Hopefully they will be able to find Snowball and reunite him with this little guy. I am sure there are a lot of stories out there about missing children, missing animals, missing relatives, etc., but this one really caught my attention.

Casshew
09-06-2005, 08:41 AM
Poco, I was sick when I heard about that boy and Snowball :(

Amraann
09-06-2005, 09:47 AM
Although this story is sad beyond belief, I want to ask...

What was the guy suppose to do? Let the dog go along and then he would have had to let everyone's dog or cat or snake or rat go to.
Thereby taking up more space that could have been used for people and potentially causing discomfort for those who are allergic?

Most likely he was following orders. His job was to evacuate people!
IMO that child's parents should have been better prepared so that he would not have had to give up his dog. Ultimately it was their responsibilty.

I do not understand the anomosity towards this man who was trying to evacuate as many people as possible in short time.

I am a pet lover and would be heart broken if anything happend to my pets.
But if it has to come down to my dog or another human life?

The flip side of the coin is that someone be refused to evacuate because a dog was taking up space. Would anyone of us be happier about that scenario??
I don't think we would.. There is no happiness about many aspects of what happend to the hurricaine victims.

Ntegrity
09-06-2005, 09:53 AM
I see both sides of the story. My pets mean the world to me, but I know that human lives must take priority in a crisis like this one.

NewMom2003
09-06-2005, 10:25 AM
I see both sides of the story. My pets mean the world to me, but I know that human lives must take priority in a crisis like this one.

I do also, but I'm afraid I would be one of those people who refused to leave their pets. I pray that I am never faced with a tragedy like this, but if I were, I would do everything I could to get my pets to safety. They are my babies and I couldn't leave them behind. There was a woman shown on Fox last night who wanted to evacuate, but wouldn't because she couldn't take her dog with her. I completely understood where she was coming from.

I remember in the early 90's, there was a hurricane brewing in the gulf that looked like it was headed our way. We immediately made plans to go further west towards San Antonio and booked hotel rooms that would allow you to bring your pets. Fortunately, that hurricane fizzled out, but living on the gulf coast, you always think about hurricanes.

My prayers go out to this little boy and Snowball. On top of everything else he's been through, his heart is breaking for his beloved pet.

So many heartbreaking stories with this horrible tragedy. :(

Sassygerl
09-06-2005, 10:36 AM
Late Monday, there was a ray of hope. The United Animal Nations (search) said Snowball was safe, citing news from the state veterinarian's office. However, the information could not be immediately verified. To complicate matters further, the group called Snowball a terrier mix, while others consider the dog a bichon frise.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168550,00.html

I hope they've really found the dog!!! I'm sure there are many, many similar stories. This is just one we are hearing about, and of course there's nothing like a boy and his dog.

Lesleegp
09-06-2005, 10:40 AM
My sister lives in Boston and told me this morning that many of the homeless pets are being brought to their area and her family is considering fostering a few pets until they are able to go home.

NewMom2003
09-06-2005, 10:47 AM
Late Monday, there was a ray of hope. The United Animal Nations (search) said Snowball was safe, citing news from the state veterinarian's office. However, the information could not be immediately verified. To complicate matters further, the group called Snowball a terrier mix, while others consider the dog a bichon frise.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168550,00.html

I hope they've really found the dog!!! I'm sure there are many, many similar stories. This is just one we are hearing about, and of course there's nothing like a boy and his dog.

Sassygerl, thank you so much for posting this. :blowkiss: I so hope this really is Snowball!!!

My sister lives in Boston and told me this morning that many of the homeless pets are being brought to their area and her family is considering fostering a few pets until they are able to go home.

I'm going to talk to my husband tonight about fostering some of these pets. I need to check with my subdivision to see what they will allow me to do (i.e. number of pets, etc.) They showed a shelter last night on Fox that was caring for some of these pets and it was wonderful to see some of them reunited with their owners.

13th Juror
09-06-2005, 12:33 PM
I do also, but I'm afraid I would be one of those people who refused to leave their pets. I pray that I am never faced with a tragedy like this, but if I were, I would do everything I could to get my pets to safety. They are my babies and I couldn't leave them behind.

There was a woman shown on Fox last night who wanted to evacuate, but wouldn't because she couldn't take her dog with her. I completely understood where she was coming from.

I remember in the early 90's, there was a hurricane brewing in the gulf that looked like it was headed our way. We immediately made plans to go further west towards San Antonio and booked hotel rooms that would allow you to bring your pets. Fortunately, that hurricane fizzled out, but living on the gulf coast, you always think about hurricanes.

My prayers go out to this little boy and Snowball. On top of everything else he's been through, his heart is breaking for his beloved pet.

So many heartbreaking stories with this horrible tragedy. :(




Hi NewMom and all,

I feel exactly the same way you all do. I'm praying Snowball and his "little guy" owner are reunited - and asap.

The reports & horrific visuals of ALL the abandoned, stranded & starving animals are stressing me to the point of near insanity. (O.K. - *Insanity* may be a slight exaggeration - but it's damn close.) I can handle almost anything better than the needless suffering of helpless animals. (No, it does not mean I don't care about human life & suffering - I most certainly do.)

God Bless "Jean Jones" (in Ft. Lauderdale, FL) of PuppyMillRescue.Com (http://www.PuppyMillRescue.com) and now "KatrinaFoundPets.Com (http://www.KatrinaFoundPets.com) for going the extra mile in her attempts to reunite Snowball with his human family.

NewMom2003, the devastated woman, you referenced above, that was hoping to be evacuated with her dog "Tinky" and who had spent days assisted others in making it safely to the I-10 bridge area - was denied rescue for her beloved dog by the National Guard. She stated that she just could not leave Tinky behind.

David Lee Miller was reporting for FOX News. The woman's name is Lewanda Poley - and "Tinky" (a female) appears to be a Chow mix.

I have made numerous calls attempting to locate Lewanda & Tinky. If anyone hears anything more regarding either of them through the news media - PLEASE post here on WS.

I have 3 extra bedrooms here, a guest house & a large fenced "dog friendly" yard in a safe neighborhood. Witnessing the anguish & devastation on this woman's face just broke my heart. I would never leave my pets either - they go where I go. Anyway, I would gladly drive to the New Orleans area to bring them here to my home in Central FL. We experienced Charley, Frances & Jeanne last hurricane season - but as bad as they were here - none of them could hold a candle to Katrina's catastrophic devastation.

So - please if anyone hears anything further about Lewanda & Tinky - please post it. I'll keep trying through FOX, humane animal organizations & the various relief agencies - and will check here at WS often. Thanks so much. :)

13th Juror

Olivia77
09-06-2005, 12:36 PM
God Bless "Jean Jones" (in Ft. Lauderdale, FL) of PuppyMillRescue.Com (http://www.puppymillrescue.com/) and now "KatrinaFoundPets.Com (http://www.katrinafoundpets.com/) for going the extra mile in her attempts to reunite Snowball with his human family.


Puppymillrescue.com is a real stand-up group, I'm not surprised they are getting involved in this. Go PMR!

poco
09-06-2005, 01:55 PM
IMO, each situation is different - if it would have been me, the little boy would have been able to take his little dog with him. Compassion and common sense do not need to be lost!

tybee204
09-06-2005, 02:39 PM
It is very sad but realistically with people going into a public shelter like the Astrodome I cant see how pets could be safely accomodated. There are thousands of people living in shared space. Can you imagine hundreds of dogs and cats that may not have been immunized biting people or fighting with other animals not to mention dealing with animal waste in a crowded facility.

Casshew
09-06-2005, 02:55 PM
IMO, each situation is different - if it would have been me, the little boy would have been able to take his little dog with him. Compassion and common sense do not need to be lost!
Yes it has to be taken on a case by case basis. Guidelines can be changed if one has some compassion. I hope snowball gets back to this little boy!

Seeker
09-06-2005, 03:00 PM
It is very sad but realistically with people going into a public shelter like the Astrodome I cant see how pets could be safely accomodated. There are thousands of people living in shared space. Can you imagine hundreds of dogs and cats that may not have been immunized biting people or fighting with other animals not to mention dealing with animal waste in a crowded facility.

Many people have smuggled their pets onto the buses...then they are taken by the Houston SPCA where they are housed and cared for while their owners are also housed and cared for...

There is no excuse for that little boy not being able to take his very small dog with him!

Sometimes a beloved pet is all someone has left in this world...

Shadow205
09-06-2005, 05:39 PM
Some good info on pets that are being rescued at this site http://www.petfinder.com/disaster/They have a list that you can adopt too.

Shadow205
09-06-2005, 05:41 PM
Poco, I can not bring myself to read the story that you posted the link to. I know I would sit here and cry. I hope that Snowball is found. Please post any updates that you find.

Gabby
09-06-2005, 08:44 PM
IMO, each situation is different - if it would have been me, the little boy would have been able to take his little dog with him. Compassion and common sense do not need to be lost!



Amen Ms. Poco... Amen....

mic730
09-06-2005, 09:33 PM
The story of Snowball left me crying at the keyboard.
So I emailed the President asking him to help reuninte Snowball and his boy and included the link to the story. It may sound trivial but I was hoping to appeal to someone in high places.
I like many others here would not leave my dogs behind and this story break my heart.

Sassygerl
09-07-2005, 12:59 AM
The story of Snowball left me crying at the keyboard.
So I emailed the President asking him to help reuninte Snowball and his boy and included the link to the story. It may sound trivial but I was hoping to appeal to someone in high places.
I like many others here would not leave my dogs behind and this story break my heart.

The story of Snowball left many in tears because it made the media circuit. There are, I have no doubt, MANY stories just like this one out there that are not televised. A boy and his dog of course tugs at the heartstrings. I am a HUGE animal lover, but we have to be realistic here. Would I leave my pets.....I'm saying NO WAY! But, I do have 3 children, and if saving their lives meant leaving our pets I would make that choice. Trust me, I have cried over the animals......it kills me. It kills me to see them knowing there's no chance for them to be rescued.....I think I cry more seeing the stories about the animals than the people as horrible as that might sound. I just feel the people will make it out...they have that choice. The animals don't :(

Details
09-07-2005, 01:11 AM
I really hate this kind of story. There's kids out there who have lost their parents, parents who have lost their children, entire families killed, children separated not from their pet, but from their mother and father, and not knowing if they are alive or dead - and airtime is wasted on a kid who lost his dog. I'd never minimize how much you can love a pet, but it's nothing compared to losing a parent, a brother or sister. It's a sad story, but it's a trivial one - there is so much worse that happened in this disaster. The energy and attention devoted to Snowball could go to many better causes. It pulls at the heartstrings, and is just too cute, and I understand why they are playing it up - but I feel it minimizes the scope of the disaster to make one of the icons a boy who lost his dog, rather than a child who lost her parents, a man who lost his wife, etc.

I'm one of those who would probably be stupid, risk my life, and stay with my pets - but I can't see how they can waste space to evacuate pets when there are people in danger of dying, and the available shelters are overflowing with people, waste, and violence.

And as much as I'd never leave my cats, and it'd just kill me to lose them, losing a parent or husband is so much worse - if I'm given just one hand in a flood to prevent someone from drifting away - it'd have to be my husband, not my cats (a horrible thought to have to make that kind of decision). I think this kind of story is used as a safe emotional release - you can imagine yourself as the little boy, without having to think of the realities that so many had to go through that were far worse.

vanillasky
09-07-2005, 01:15 AM
IMO - it doesn't minimize anything - pets are like a family member in many families, including my own. My husband and I seem to be unable to have children, and our 5 cats ARE our children, and treat them as such. I think it's a bit harsh to say this story is "airtime wasted". In no way do I think it "minimizes the scope of the disaster" - IMO, it broadens it - people have lost everything, right down to their beloved pets. Pets are living beings, with beating hearts who are deeply loved by their families, and any coverage given to them is in no way "airtime wasted". :mad:

Details
09-07-2005, 01:26 AM
Seems out of proportion - just about as much coverage as that poor guy whose wife was pulled away from his arms when their house split.

My cats are my kids too, and spoiled and loved they are, and I'd risk my own life to avoid leaving them behind - in a heartbeat. I just think we get too many stories about the photogenic and cutesy parts of disasters, and not enough about things that the media can't turn into a cute, sweet story.

For an example - why have I heard more about Snowball than this: "There were already several children raped and several children murdered. And I just couldn't take it. We just slept outside. Somebody told me that was a safer option than trying to stay inside the Superdome, so we slept in garbage, with thousands of other people outside," explains Mittelstadt.
Roving gangs shoot at evacuees, and at one point, they step on daughter Mackenzie's head. At first, Lia fears the worst. "I was running down the street and yelling my baby's dead, my baby 's dead, please somebody help me."http://nbc15.madison.com/news/headlines/1819162.html

vanillasky
09-07-2005, 01:32 AM
I haven't seen anything cutesy in the last week on the news. :twocents:

Sassygerl
09-07-2005, 01:33 AM
I really hate this kind of story. There's kids out there who have lost their parents, parents who have lost their children, entire families killed, children separated not from their pet, but from their mother and father, and not knowing if they are alive or dead - and airtime is wasted on a kid who lost his dog.

Wasted????? I don't think it was wasted......who's to say this dog wasn't this kids sibling he didn't have? Or best friend he didn't have?????? While I posted saying I think there are many, many similar stories, I don't think the time to cover the story was "wasted". Just ask the little boy. I have 3 kids and 3 dogs, if I was told only 3 could go it's a no brainer for me. BUT, I would be devastated knowing my beloved pets had no chance and were feasting on human remains, and had no chance of getting out of such horrid conditions.

I hope you meet this little boy someday and let him know how you felt about the situation.

Details
09-07-2005, 01:34 AM
A cute kid, a cute dog - nothing cuter than a boy and his dog.

Details
09-07-2005, 01:36 AM
I hope you meet this little boy someday and let him know how you felt about the situation.No problem. I feel sorry for him, and ticked off at the media. He's a kid - he didn't choose to make this the big media story. Some reporter saw human interest, and reported on it - and that's fine when there aren't more pressing issues. But right now there are.

Sassygerl
09-07-2005, 01:38 AM
No problem. I feel sorry for him, and ticked off at the media. He's a kid - he didn't choose to make this the big media story. Some reporter saw human interest, and reported on it - and that's fine when there aren't more pressing issues. But right now there are.

You have to remember to him (and all the others) there aren't more pressing issues. His dog was his world. You don't get it.....

Details
09-07-2005, 01:40 AM
You have to remember to him (and all the others) there aren't more pressing issues. His dog was his world. You don't get it.....I think you don't. Try this: imagine you are one of the parents who was separated from their children in the middle of the flooding - would you feel more than a little upset that your missing child's picture wasn't on the news, but a little dog's was? That people were looking for the dog who didn't even know your child was missing?

Sassygerl
09-07-2005, 01:41 AM
No problem. I feel sorry for him, and ticked off at the media. He's a kid - he didn't choose to make this the big media story. Some reporter saw human interest, and reported on it - and that's fine when there aren't more pressing issues. But right now there are.

I have yet to see the boys or the dogs picture on the news......have you?

Sassygerl
09-07-2005, 01:42 AM
I think you don't. Try this: imagine you are one of the parents who was separated from their children in the middle of the flooding - would you feel more than a little upset that your missing child's picture wasn't on the news, but a little dog's was? That people were looking for the dog who didn't even know your child was missing?

Have you not read my posts? Do you have children????? I still have not seen the little dogs picture.....please post the link to it since Snowball's pic is dominating the news.

ETA: I'm hoping you can provide a link with all the missing dog pics that are dominating the media. It's so ridiculous...of course there are no "missing dog pics" dominating the media circuit. The children/adults are what are and should be circulating. BUT, to a child as well as many adults, animals mean the world. While we might not know where many humans are, we do know many dogs are stranded on rooftops and stuck in the Superdome with no way out....NO chance of a rescue.

vanillasky
09-07-2005, 02:02 AM
Yeah, cute, as in........... cute at a day in the park. Not cute having a dog ripped from his arms and him getting physically ill from sorrow. I have never seen a photo or video of this happen - have only read about it - and in my mind, cute would be the last word I would choose to describe what I feel about reading the story of what happened. I really think to say this is wasted airtime is COLD. :mad:

ETA: Given, maybe some people's idea of cute is different than mine, but this certainly isn't cute to me.

A cute kid, a cute dog - nothing cuter than a boy and his dog.

lostfaith
09-07-2005, 02:34 AM
I have 3 kids and 1 very spoiled rotten, pampered pooch. He is EVERYTHING to our entire family, even my husband loves him to death. We got him at a very tough point in our families lives, we were soooooooooooooo depressed, all of us. He has lite up our world like you would not believe, and gave us all someone to love and have fun with when we desperately needed it. I could never choose to leave him behind, my whole family would revolt. We would stay with him until we could all be rescued. But, my children are older, youngest is 10. If I had very small children that were not as yet attached to my dog, and they were in danger, as much as it would kill me, I would have to put my child first. But, with my kids ages, they would NEVER allow me to leave our "baby" , they would never forgive me. That said, I do understand that rules are rules, and I am sure that the man who would not let snowball on the bus, probably hates that he had to do that. I agree with a previous poster that said if he let snowball on, he would have to let everyones pets on. Imagine the rebellion he might have caused by letting snowball on. You know its true, pet owners who truely love their pets would have started a riot seeing a pet let on and told theirs could not! I hate that that little boy had to be seperated from his dog, I hate that that gaurd had to make that decision! I dont blame the parents for it, I can just imagine how gut wrenching it was for them to see thier little boy in such pain. I am sure they had no idea when they brought their dog with them to safety that the situation was going to get as bad as it did and they would have to leave the dog behind. Alot of decision had to be made in very little time, I am sure some of them where gut wrenching, but they did have to be made.

I see nothing wrong with reporting this, as I watch t.v. there are plenty of horrible stories out there, very few of them are about animals. This one is just one of so many. I am glad to hear this story has affected so many people like it has, reminds me there are still people out there with a heart who care. I so hope snowball and the little boy can be re-united.

I am teary eyed thinking about how I would feel having to leave my little guy behind, driving away looking out the bus window and him watching me leave with those big eyes and his head tilted to the side, wondering why I am abandoning him.

Oh, I have to go smoke now and compose myself. :(

cynder
09-07-2005, 03:27 AM
We are our pet's "keepers". They are innocent, trusting and totally dependant on US to live. WE chose to bring them into our lives and it is fully our responsibility to care for them in every way until their last breath. Unlike people, they have no choices, no legal recourse, no protective agencies, no free medical care, no provisions in case of death of their owners....nothing. They are forced to live the life their owner chooses for them - be it good, or bad. They are totally at our mercy. When they were left behind it was not their fault and yet we are supposed to ignore that and just accept that their deaths mean nothing, have no significance, that their owners will not grieve over the choices they were forced to make.
EACH LIFE IS VALUABLE, EACH LIFE HAS MEANING, EACH DEATH WAS UNECESSARY.
When will the US learn that all life is important? When will it become the rule that ALL living things have a right to rescue and survival and aid? When will the ridiculous rules for shelter in a disaster that prohibit pets be changed or altered so that pets AND humans in desperate need can each find appropriate refuge in the worst situations.
No-one should ever have to make a choice - love for a pet is no different than love for a family member - why is it always thought that pets are disposable lives? That it is OK to "sacrifice" them? That love for a pet is somehow "less" than love for a person? Does anyone who has ever looked into the eyes of a beloved pet question that they love, and fear and hurt? What horrible torture - to be left alone to die in fear and pain and not understanding what horrible thing they must have done to deserve such a fate.
Many things must change because of this tragedy - I hope one of them is to realize that to force people to choose to sacrifice a pet to recieve aid is to condemn both pets and their owners to an uneeded death. This is the great USA, surely we can do better, can't we? These are innocent lives, without voices to speak and people must take up their cause and speak for them. ANY loss of life is unacceptable.
People will be taken care of, therefore I (and many like me) have chosen to speak for the animals. My first donation to Katrina victims went to rescue the animals. All life is precious, all pain is pain, all cruelty is cruelty. A society that condones such treatment of the weakest and most vulnerable lives cannot survive. That is the lesson of Katrina. No life is less valuable than another.

dani
09-07-2005, 05:19 AM
Hi NewMom and all,

I feel exactly the same way you all do. I'm praying Snowball and his "little guy" owner are reunited - and asap.

The reports & horrific visuals of ALL the abandoned, stranded & starving animals are stressing me to the point of near insanity. (O.K. - *Insanity* may be a slight exaggeration - but it's damn close.) I can handle almost anything better than the needless suffering of helpless animals. (No, it does not mean I don't care about human life & suffering - I most certainly do.)

God Bless "Jean Jones" (in Ft. Lauderdale, FL) of PuppyMillRescue.Com (http://www.PuppyMillRescue.com) and now "KatrinaFoundPets.Com (http://www.KatrinaFoundPets.com) for going the extra mile in her attempts to reunite Snowball with his human family.

NewMom2003, the devastated woman, you referenced above, that was hoping to be evacuated with her dog "Tinky" and who had spent days assisted others in making it safely to the I-10 bridge area - was denied rescue for her beloved dog by the National Guard. She stated that she just could not leave Tinky behind.

David Lee Miller was reporting for FOX News. The woman's name is Lewanda Poley - and "Tinky" (a female) appears to be a Chow mix.

I have made numerous calls attempting to locate Lewanda & Tinky. If anyone hears anything more regarding either of them through the news media - PLEASE post here on WS.

I have 3 extra bedrooms here, a guest house & a large fenced "dog friendly" yard in a safe neighborhood. Witnessing the anguish & devastation on this woman's face just broke my heart. I would never leave my pets either - they go where I go. Anyway, I would gladly drive to the New Orleans area to bring them here to my home in Central FL. We experienced Charley, Frances & Jeanne last hurricane season - but as bad as they were here - none of them could hold a candle to Katrina's catastrophic devastation.

So - please if anyone hears anything further about Lewanda & Tinky - please post it. I'll keep trying through FOX, humane animal organizations & the various relief agencies - and will check here at WS often. Thanks so much. :)

13th Juror


Hi 13th Juror

Good news!!! I heard a followup on the news today (well…make that yesterday now, it's 2:15 am here in Oregon) that Lewanda Poley and Tinky were eventually rescued TOGETHER last night and a family in Georgia has taken them into their home. The report also said she located some of her family today back in Louisiana and they want her to come stay with them, so they will all be reunited soon.

But YOU, 13th Juror, deserve a :clap: :clap: :clap: . Your willingness to drive all the way to N.O. to get Lewanda and Tinky and take them into your home is to be applauded. I know in my heart that our Heavenly Father is truly pleased with you. :angel:

dani

Gabby
09-07-2005, 06:13 AM
Have you not read my posts? Do you have children????? I still have not seen the little dogs picture.....please post the link to it since Snowball's pic is dominating the news.

ETA: I'm hoping you can provide a link with all the missing dog pics that are dominating the media. It's so ridiculous...of course there are no "missing dog pics" dominating the media circuit. The children/adults are what are and should be circulating. BUT, to a child as well as many adults, animals mean the world. While we might not know where many humans are, we do know many dogs are stranded on rooftops and stuck in the Superdome with no way out....NO chance of a rescue.




Sassy, might as well give up... if you aren't a dog lover (or animal lover) you will never 'get ' it.... my dogs are my babies as you know and i would NEVER leave them....if they die, I die with them.. they'd do the very same for me. No sense making yourself mad and upset, Most of us understand and those who don't quite simply Won't, no matter how hard we try to explain.

poco
09-07-2005, 07:15 AM
Sassy, might as well give up... if you aren't a dog lover (or animal lover) you will never 'get ' it.... my dogs are my babies as you know and i would NEVER leave them....if they die, I die with them.. they'd do the very same for me. No sense making yourself mad and upset, Most of us understand and those who don't quite simply Won't, no matter how hard we try to explain.

I'm with ya Gab! There are many many people out there that don't love their animals in the same way we do. Those people are the ones that would leave their dog tied to a porch during Katrina or left to float to the second story. Whatever! Those that feel like we do should be given the option of taking our animals with us. My dog is my little girl. I love her every bit as much as I love my child - she is my child!

Children and pets love unconditionally! Find another human being like that! It's all about the innocence. Besides, dhildren and pets aren't the ones looting, raping and killing.

If ya don't agree, I don't give a rats patootie! My dog goes where I go and that little boy's dog should have been allowed to go with him -

Cynder says it all in her post above. Her post gave me goosebumpes - (BTW, I once had a dog named Cinder - a black cocker).

Gabby
09-07-2005, 08:25 AM
I'm with ya Gab! There are many many people out there that don't love their animals in the same way we do. Those people are the ones that would leave their dog tied to a porch during Katrina or left to float to the second story. Whatever! Those that feel like we do should be given the option of taking our animals with us. My dog is my little girl. I love her every bit as much as I love my child - she is my child!

Children and pets love unconditionally! Find another human being like that! It's all about the innocence. Besides, dhildren and pets aren't the ones looting, raping and killing.

If ya don't agree, I don't give a rats patootie! My dog goes where I go and that little boy's dog should have been allowed to go with him -

Cynder says it all in her post above. Her post gave me goosebumpes - (BTW, I once had a dog named Cinder - a black cocker).


:blowkiss: :clap:

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 09:02 AM
I'm with ya Gab! There are many many people out there that don't love their animals in the same way we do. Those people are the ones that would leave their dog tied to a porch during Katrina or left to float to the second story. Whatever! Those that feel like we do should be given the option of taking our animals with us. My dog is my little girl. I love her every bit as much as I love my child - she is my child!

Children and pets love unconditionally! Find another human being like that! It's all about the innocence. Besides, children and pets aren't the ones looting, raping and killing.

If ya don't agree, I don't give a rats patootie! My dog goes where I go and that little boy's dog should have been allowed to go with him -

Cynder says it all in her post above. Her post gave me goosebumpes - (BTW, I once had a dog named Cinder - a black cocker).I am a hard core animal lover with several. I am also a mother. Hands down, I love my child more. I know if I could only save one, it would be my son.

Would you have to flip a coin?

The boy and his dog story is a sad one, but it PALES in comparison to the deaths, violence and separation of human families.

It would have been lovely if everyone were able to be evacuated along with their pets, but PEOPLE must come first.

And I resent being lumped in with people that would leave a dog tied to the porch and skip away, Just because I would chose to have my son survive!

poco
09-07-2005, 09:18 AM
I am a hard core animal lover with several. I am also a mother. Hands down, I love my child more. I know if I could only save one, it would be my son.

Would you have to flip a coin?

The boy and his dog story is a sad one, but it PALES in comparison to the deaths, violence and separation of human families.

It would have been lovely if everyone were able to be evacuated along with their pets, but PEOPLE must come first.

And I resent being lumped in with people that would leave a dog tied to the porch and skip away, Just because I would chose to have my son survive!

Choose between my dog and child? - why, my child of course! No doubt! However, I have no children. My dog is my child..... she's my baby. I guess that is why we are called individuals. It's all about your personal priorities.

NewMom2003
09-07-2005, 09:26 AM
Sassy, might as well give up... if you aren't a dog lover (or animal lover) you will never 'get ' it.... my dogs are my babies as you know and i would NEVER leave them....if they die, I die with them.. they'd do the very same for me. No sense making yourself mad and upset, Most of us understand and those who don't quite simply Won't, no matter how hard we try to explain.

Posted by Poco
I'm with ya Gab! There are many many people out there that don't love their animals in the same way we do. Those people are the ones that would leave their dog tied to a porch during Katrina or left to float to the second story. Whatever! Those that feel like we do should be given the option of taking our animals with us. My dog is my little girl. I love her every bit as much as I love my child - she is my child!

:blowkiss: :blowkiss: to both of you and everyone else who does "get it". I can't even put in enough "claps". :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: To so many of us, our animals are our furry children and my heart breaks for each and every one of them that was left behind or separated from their family.

Cynder, your post brought me to tears!! It is so very very true! :blowkiss:

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 09:43 AM
Choose between my dog and child? - why, my child of course! No doubt! However, I have no children. My dog is my child..... she's my baby. I guess that is why we are called individuals. It's all about your personal priorities.I have two Dobermans, 3 cats, 2 ferrets and two tortoises, ( I also have a horse and a pony) let's say I live on your block. I bring all of my family and pets and you bring all of yours....how many children may drown because we used the space for our beloved pets?

Could you live with that ? I couldn't. I guess it's all about "personal priorities".

I don't think anyone is arguing that in a perfect world every pet and every person would saved & kept together and they all get to live happily ever after.....I live in reality.

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 10:15 AM
But why should these people who have already lost everything had to have chosen between their children or their pets at all?? No one should be forced to make such a decision. Their lives are already turned upside down and pure hell all within a week's time. Why add more emotional strain?


This just saddens me and ticks me off.... those people should not have been put in that position. It was not their fault that they lost everything.

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 10:47 AM
But why should these people who have already lost everything had to have chosen between their children or their pets at all?? No one should be forced to make such a decision. Their lives are already turned upside down and pure hell all within a week's time. Why add more emotional strain?


This just saddens me and ticks me off.... those people should not have been put in that position. It was not their fault that they lost everything.
Because the reality of life isn't perfect or fair.

cynder
09-07-2005, 10:49 AM
But say I have no children...and say other people have 8 children and take up shelter space with them but I, with NO children am not accorded the same space because my chidren have fur, or shells or whatever? True compassion would be about celebrating and preserving LIFE, not what kind of life. Choices should not be necessary.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the value of a life - human vs animal etc. I do, however, disagree with the notion that an animal life is somehow less valuable or more acceptable to sacrifice. Having children is a CHOICE - just as having a pet is. If one CHOOSES not to have children and instead has a pet or pets, who is to say that the person with children deserves to save them while the person with the same number of pets is turned away.
Besides, it is obviously "the rule" that pets are sacrificed. Not a single person lost his or her life because a pet was given shelter instead. Not a single person was left sitting on a roof so a pet could be rescued. Not a single person was denied a bus ride to safety because a pet was taking their space in the bus. It's a moot point to say that people are more important because it is obvious that they ARE. All some of us are trying to do is make people understand that ALL life is equally important. People in an already horrific circumstance where all their material posessions and their homes are gone should not be forced to make a choice or have authorities tell them the animal they love with the same love they have for a child (and is ALL they have left of their life) is not "worthy" of being saved and that they are expected to knowingly and willfully kill that animal by abandoning it.
The "animal behavior" I saw this past week was being perpertrated by PEOPLE. People who were, by mandate, seen as more "valuable" and more "worthy" of life than Snowball and his kin.
Again, those pesky CHOICES about what life is deemed important and what life is not. And the victims to whom the compassion and aid is directed, are given NO choice at all.
Compassion should be blind.
There MUST be a better solution.

NewMom2003
09-07-2005, 11:16 AM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Thank you for this!!

But say I have no children...and say other people have 8 children and take up shelter space with them but I, with NO children am not accorded the same space because my chidren have fur, or shells or whatever? True compassion would be about celebrating and preserving LIFE, not what kind of life. Choices should not be necessary.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the value of a life - human vs animal etc. I do, however, disagree with the notion that an animal life is somehow less valuable or more acceptable to sacrifice. Having children is a CHOICE - just as having a pet is. If one CHOOSES not to have children and instead has a pet or pets, who is to say that the person with children deserves to save them while the person with the same number of pets is turned away.
Besides, it is obviously "the rule" that pets are sacrificed. Not a single person lost his or her life because a pet was given shelter instead. Not a single person was left sitting on a roof so a pet could be rescued. Not a single person was denied a bus ride to safety because a pet was taking their space in the bus. It's a moot point to say that people are more important because it is obvious that they ARE. All some of us are trying to do is make people understand that ALL life is equally important. People in an already horrific circumstance where all their material posessions and their homes are gone should not be forced to make a choice or have authorities tell them the animal they love with the same love they have for a child (and is ALL they have left of their life) is not "worthy" of being saved and that they are expected to knowingly and willfully kill that animal by abandoning it.
The "animal behavior" I saw this past week was being perpertrated by PEOPLE. People who were, by mandate, seen as more "valuable" and more "worthy" of life than Snowball and his kin.
Again, those pesky CHOICES about what life is deemed important and what life is not. And the victims to whom the compassion and aid is directed, are given NO choice at all.
Compassion should be blind.
There MUST be a better solution.

poco
09-07-2005, 12:49 PM
But say I have no children...and say other people have 8 children and take up shelter space with them but I, with NO children am not accorded the same space because my chidren have fur, or shells or whatever? True compassion would be about celebrating and preserving LIFE, not what kind of life. Choices should not be necessary.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the value of a life - human vs animal etc. I do, however, disagree with the notion that an animal life is somehow less valuable or more acceptable to sacrifice. Having children is a CHOICE - just as having a pet is. If one CHOOSES not to have children and instead has a pet or pets, who is to say that the person with children deserves to save them while the person with the same number of pets is turned away.
Besides, it is obviously "the rule" that pets are sacrificed. Not a single person lost his or her life because a pet was given shelter instead. Not a single person was left sitting on a roof so a pet could be rescued. Not a single person was denied a bus ride to safety because a pet was taking their space in the bus. It's a moot point to say that people are more important because it is obvious that they ARE. All some of us are trying to do is make people understand that ALL life is equally important. People in an already horrific circumstance where all their material posessions and their homes are gone should not be forced to make a choice or have authorities tell them the animal they love with the same love they have for a child (and is ALL they have left of their life) is not "worthy" of being saved and that they are expected to knowingly and willfully kill that animal by abandoning it.
The "animal behavior" I saw this past week was being perpertrated by PEOPLE. People who were, by mandate, seen as more "valuable" and more "worthy" of life than Snowball and his kin.
Again, those pesky CHOICES about what life is deemed important and what life is not. And the victims to whom the compassion and aid is directed, are given NO choice at all.
Compassion should be blind.
There MUST be a better solution.

EXCELLENT POST!!! VOTED POST OF THE WEEK BY POCO!!!!! I agree with you 1,000%!!!!! You've said it all!

PaperDoll
09-07-2005, 12:57 PM
I would do everything I could to get my pets to safety. They are my babies and I couldn't leave them behind.
:(

I am so with you on this.. Pets bring a lot of joy and they are LIFE just like us.. I would be soooo heartbroken to leave any of my loved ones behind and that includes a pet... They are also part of society and family...

Mabel
09-07-2005, 01:00 PM
Just read this on another board:

U.S. Department of Agriculture veterinarian Terry Conger said Tuesday that Snowball, a small white dog taken by police Thursday from a sobbing little boy as he boarded a bus at the Superdome, has been located at the Gonzalez shelter and will be reunited with his owner.

Sorry no link was given.

Edit: found a link, it's in this article (http://www.usatoday.com/life/2005-09-06-katrina-pets_x.htm)

poco
09-07-2005, 01:04 PM
Just read this on another board:



Sorry no link was given.

Oh Mabel, thanks so much for the update. If you hear any more please let us know. You've made my day!!!!!

Gabby
09-07-2005, 01:06 PM
Oh Mabel, thanks so much for the update. If you hear any more please let us know. You've made my day!!!!!


Mine too

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 01:50 PM
Because the reality of life isn't perfect or fair.that's a real cop out of an answer.

No... edited to add: No, I'm not going to let this one go.

Life isn't perfect or fair, eh?
So it is ok that people lost their homes and ok that plans weren't followed for evacuations? After all, life isn't perfect or fair right?
:rolleyes:

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 01:54 PM
that's a real cop out of an answer.
The truth is a cop out? "THEY" can't even manage to save the BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!

I out grew fairy-tales long ago.

tipper
09-07-2005, 01:54 PM
It seems to me it would cost less in the long run if pets were taken into account as part of an evacuation plan. Just off the top of my head - The Humane Society could be set up where people are being received and they could be tagging and caging pets as they and their owners arrive. So many people are saying they won't leave because of their pets. Why not start taking that into account?

If I had to abandon a pet I would rather put it down myself than let it starve lost and alone. Especially completely helpless animals like ferrets.

Hi Cynder - Nice to see you posting!

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 01:58 PM
that's a real cop out of an answer.

No... edited to add: No, I'm not going to let this one go.

Life isn't perfect or fair, eh?
So it is ok that people lost their homes and ok that plans weren't followed for evacuations? After all, life isn't perfect or fair right?
:rolleyes:
That's not what I am saying AT ALL!

The "evacuations" were a JOKE, "they" didn't care enough about the people. Where would you like "THEM" to begin to fix this problem? Do you HONESTLY think people will EVER all be evacuated safely and with their pets? EVER?

It's a wonderful dream, but that's all it is. SADLY.

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 02:00 PM
It seems to me it would cost less in the long run if pets were taken into account as part of an evacuation plan. Just off the top of my head - The Humane Society could be set up where people are being received and they could be tagging and caging pets as they and their owners arrive. So many people are saying they won't leave because of their pets. Why not start taking that into account?

If I had to abandon a pet I would rather put it down myself than let it starve lost and alone. Especially completely helpless animals like ferrets.

Hi Cynder - Nice to see you posting!
I couldn't leave mine to starve or drown either, I would have to end their lives quickly and as painless as possible.

Dara
09-07-2005, 02:01 PM
But say I have no children...and say other people have 8 children and take up shelter space with them but I, with NO children am not accorded the same space because my chidren have fur, or shells or whatever? True compassion would be about celebrating and preserving LIFE, not what kind of life.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the value of a life - human vs animal etc. I do, however, disagree with the notion that an animal life is somehow less valuable or more acceptable to sacrifice. Having children is a CHOICE - just as having a pet is. If one CHOOSES not to have children and instead has a pet or pets, who is to say that the person with children deserves to save them while the person with the same number of pets is turned away. I'll be honest here. I love my cat. He is my child. But if it were between my cat, and someone else's child, I would sacrifice my cat for a child. It would kill me and haunt me and add already to that overloaded, aching place in my heart for other lost pets. But I couldn't let a child die or even walk the streets.

And, yes, having children is a choice (less so if you're poor and can't afford contraception). But not for the child.

cynder
09-07-2005, 02:09 PM
It seems to me it would cost less in the long run if pets were taken into account as part of an evacuation plan. Just off the top of my head - The Humane Society could be set up where people are being received and they could be tagging and caging pets as they and their owners arrive. So many people are saying they won't leave because of their pets. Why not start taking that into account?

If I had to abandon a pet I would rather put it down myself than let it starve lost and alone. Especially completely helpless animals like ferrets.

Hi Cynder - Nice to see you posting!
Great ideas - I have been thinking the same thing. More and more Americans have a close relationship with their pets and consider them "family" than ever before. Society is changing so much as the baby boomers become empty nesters and retire - and we are a powerful force. There ARE solutions!
I am lurking about - I couldn't let this subject go by without comment. I am taking in displaced turtles already (some victims are not furry, lol). I am so sad and so depressed about the massive loss of life (all life, human, plant and animal), the pollution, the enviromental damage, the possibility that the soil and water and air may never properly recover. And no-one has yet to mention that the migratory birds will be arriving soon - will they too be doomed die in an oily, polluted coastline? I saw pictures today of oil covered dogs and cats and birds. Without immediate intervention they will all die in a few days, a horrible death by slow poison. It makes me sick.

NewMom2003
09-07-2005, 02:12 PM
Just read this on another board:



Sorry no link was given.

Edit: found a link, it's in this article (http://www.usatoday.com/life/2005-09-06-katrina-pets_x.htm)

Wonderful news about Snowball!!! I hope he/she and his little boy are reunited soon!!!

Heartbreaking news about some of the others though. The quote about 200 drowning in Mississippi really got me. God Bless those babies.

vanillasky
09-07-2005, 02:47 PM
Cynder, your posts that I've read this afternoon have moved me to tears.

Bless you. :blowkiss:

Details
09-07-2005, 03:07 PM
I am a hard core animal lover with several. I am also a mother. Hands down, I love my child more. I know if I could only save one, it would be my son.

Would you have to flip a coin?

The boy and his dog story is a sad one, but it PALES in comparison to the deaths, violence and separation of human families.

It would have been lovely if everyone were able to be evacuated along with their pets, but PEOPLE must come first.

And I resent being lumped in with people that would leave a dog tied to the porch and skip away, Just because I would chose to have my son survive!Right on! This is one of those unfortunate times when you have to make a choice. I know which side I am on. If I had to leave my cats behind - well, first I'd do all I could to not do so. Or spend whatever it took to go somewhere where I could sneak them in. But if that wasn't possible, if it was a simple choice between my cats or a person surviving - there's no question what I'd have to do - as much as it makes me cry to even think about being in that position.

Details
09-07-2005, 03:09 PM
But why should these people who have already lost everything had to have chosen between their children or their pets at all?? No one should be forced to make such a decision. Their lives are already turned upside down and pure hell all within a week's time. Why add more emotional strain?


This just saddens me and ticks me off.... those people should not have been put in that position. It was not their fault that they lost everything.Because they must. And a hurricane is no one's fault - life isn't fair, bad things don't only happen to bad people! The city was destroyed, the waters were rising, the shelters were overfull, supplies were running out or non-existent. They couldn't even save all of the people - having to save the pets too condemns more people to death - period. That is the cold hard reality.

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 03:13 PM
Because they must. And a hurricane is no one's fault - life isn't fair, bad things don't only happen to bad people! The city was destroyed, the waters were rising, the shelters were overfull, supplies were running out or non-existent. They couldn't even save all of the people - having to save the pets too condemns more people to death - period. That is the cold hard reality.
Are we sharing the same brain on this one? :laugh: I thought I heard voices in my head, are you in there?

Details
09-07-2005, 03:15 PM
I couldn't leave mine to starve or drown either, I would have to end their lives quickly and as painless as possible.Me too - I'd hope I could bring myself to do it. If there was the slightest chance, I'd probably be stupid, set them up in a room with as much food and water as I could, and hope I hadn't condemned them to starve or drown - but if there was no chance - ugh, I'd rather not think about it. I have had to have a cat put to sleep - she died in my arms, but it's such a rotten choice to make, and for that one at least I was able to take some time to be sure it was the right choice for her.

Details
09-07-2005, 03:16 PM
Are we sharing the same brain on this one? :laugh: I thought I heard voices in my head, are you in there?What's this weird deja vu feeling there with your posts.....:laugh:

Nah, I think it's just as House said, being cursed with an unfortunate ability to do the math. The answers aren't always pleasant, the magic movie solution that saves everyone doesn't always exist.

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 03:26 PM
Me too - I'd hope I could bring myself to do it. If there was the slightest chance, I'd probably be stupid, set them up in a room with as much food and water as I could, and hope I hadn't condemned them to starve or drown - but if there was no chance - ugh, I'd rather not think about it. I have had to have a cat put to sleep - she died in my arms, but it's such a rotten choice to make, and for that one at least I was able to take some time to be sure it was the right choice for her.
It's a horrible choice to have to make. I also have had to make the heart breaking decison to put a few to sleep over the years. Like you, I held them until the end, sobbing and thanking them for the we shared and telling them how much I loved them.

Hopefully, I will NEVER have to make such a choice because I was unable to get them safely out. A few years ago, I witnessed a man hitting a pregnant doe with his pick-up truck. Her neck was broken and she was gasping her last breaths, a police officer kindly ended her misery. I never thought I would be capable of doing what I did next, I removed her baby, toweled him off, got him breathing and delivered him to someone that knew what to do after that. He's HUGE and wonderful today! ( he thinks he's a dog:)

Ntegrity
09-07-2005, 03:41 PM
I removed her baby, toweled him off, got him breathing and delivered him to someone that knew what to do after that. He's HUGE and wonderful today! ( he thinks he's a dog:)
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Details
09-07-2005, 03:44 PM
That's wonderful! We've taken a few rescued infant kittens over the years - me and my sisters when I was younger. It started with a cat of ours who had a C-section and wouldn't nurse the kittens (most of our cats were always fixed immediately, but just this once we decided to let her have one litter - quite an expensive choice it was), so we hand raised them for the first 2 weeks of their lives, then found a nursing mother cat who still wanted to nurse kittens after all of hers had grown up and been given away. Then there was a friend of ours who found some infant (a week, at most 2 weeks old - eyes not open) kittens in a homeless guy's shopping cart, so she took them away, and gave them to us, and we did all of their feedings and such and raised them into two wonderful cats (mom said we could only do it if we were willing to give them away when they were old enough - but when the time came she couldn't do it either). Then there was another 2 batches that my friend S raised with my sister A's help - the vet knew she knew someone who had sucessfully kept alive infant kittens (most of them die, even with proper care and feeding - it's just so much work to keep up with all of their feeding, temperature, and bathroom care). S kept one of those - quite a cat Tabblert is too.

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 04:34 PM
What's this weird deja vu feeling there with your posts.....:laugh:

Nah, I think it's just as House said, being cursed with an unfortunate ability to do the math. The answers aren't always pleasant, the magic movie solution that saves everyone doesn't always exist.I was blessed with creative ability and ability to do math well ... usually both sides of the brain don't work well together. ;)

But I personally will not and shall not play God.
I have no children. I don't want children. But I like kids. And I would save a kid. There's no saying that a pet and a child could not have been saved had the right supplies been made available.
I take care of my pets. I don't ask people to take care of my pets but I donate money for other people's pets, babies, poor people, whatever ...
I wouldn't want anyone telling me that I must let my pet go.
No way. I wouldn't do it. That's my baby I've had for years, cared for, took to the vet, cried over when I thought was dying. My pets are more vaulable than my scrap books and anything I own.

It is not upon my shoulders, thank goodness, to judge which lives should and shouldn't be saved.

Sometimes pets are all people have.
To act like they are just some item or personal belonging that unfortunately got "swept away" or that should be left there to find its own food and shelter and oh too bad so sad is really disheartening to read.
But I don't expect everybody to share my opinion.

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 04:38 PM
That's wonderful! We've taken a few rescued infant kittens over the years - me and my sisters when I was younger. It started with a cat of ours who had a C-section and wouldn't nurse the kittens (most of our cats were always fixed immediately, but just this once we decided to let her have one litter - quite an expensive choice it was), so we hand raised them for the first 2 weeks of their lives, then found a nursing mother cat who still wanted to nurse kittens after all of hers had grown up and been given away. Then there was a friend of ours who found some infant (a week, at most 2 weeks old - eyes not open) kittens in a homeless guy's shopping cart, so she took them away, and gave them to us, and we did all of their feedings and such and raised them into two wonderful cats (mom said we could only do it if we were willing to give them away when they were old enough - but when the time came she couldn't do it either). Then there was another 2 batches that my friend S raised with my sister A's help - the vet knew she knew someone who had sucessfully kept alive infant kittens (most of them die, even with proper care and feeding - it's just so much work to keep up with all of their feeding, temperature, and bathroom care). S kept one of those - quite a cat Tabblert is too.
Been there and done that with newborn kittens!:eek: I NEVER knew you had to "help" them go to the bathroom! It was much more difficult than I thought it would be, the every 4 hours feedings, the trips to the vet etc...Only 3 of the 5 lived. I learned a lot, like did you know one litter of kittens have have several different fathers?

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 04:41 PM
Because they must. And a hurricane is no one's fault - life isn't fair, bad things don't only happen to bad people! The city was destroyed, the waters were rising, the shelters were overfull, supplies were running out or non-existent. They couldn't even save all of the people - having to save the pets too condemns more people to death - period. That is the cold hard reality.Supplies are not running out. They are now infantly abundant. People are donating from all over the country.
If they would've just thought a little harder, people could've brought their pets on board. I know my dogs would sat quietly at my feet and not taken up much space at all and neither would have I....
oh, and if all those buses that sat on the school yard flooded up to their roof tops were utilized like they were supposed to have been, pets would've fit on there, too.

Details
09-07-2005, 04:44 PM
Been there and done that with newborn kittens!:eek: I NEVER knew you had to "help" them go to the bathroom! It was much more difficult than I thought it would be, the every 4 hours feedings, the trips to the vet etc...Only 3 of the 5 lived. I learned a lot, like did you know one litter of kittens have have several different fathers?Yeah, their mothers lick their bottoms, and that stimulates them to go to the bathroom when they are still infants - up until the time when they learn how to do it themselves and will use a littlerbox (thank goodness that bit is instinct). So you have to duplicate that with a damp washcloth. We did several litters of kittens, and only lost one (he got stuck behind the thermometer we had put in to make sure they were warm enough and suffocated. :( His name was Panda (poor little guy - black and white and no tail). But that was our first litter - in later litters we made sure there was no such possibility for the kittens - raised at least 15, and only the one death - I hear that a 50% mortality ratio is the usual, so you did do good.

It really is sickening that some people see this as either or - either you love animals equally with children, and you'd accept that some people will die so you can keep your animal - wouldn't want to judge which life is worth more, or you think of them as mere personal property that you would just tie to a porch to let it starve or drown.

There are people in between those two extremes. :furious:

Details
09-07-2005, 04:46 PM
Supplies are not running out. They are now infantly abundant. People are donating from all over the country.
If they would've just thought a little harder, people could've brought their pets on board. I know my dogs would sat quietly at my feet and not taken up much space at all and neither would have I....
oh, and if all those buses that sat on the school yard flooded up to their roof tops were utilized like they were supposed to have been, pets would've fit on there, too.Now, yes. Then no. And whatever shouldhave been done, the people starving on the onramps, dying in the superdome can't eat, can't find extra room off of shouldhaves. You can't ride a shouldhave bus. (and we'll see, but with all the people who survived the hurricane and the intial flood only to die from lack of rescue, I think all those shouldhave buses would be full to the brim with them). It was what was there at the time that the overworked rescuers had to work with. So, so many people died for lack of a shouldhave. I'd still be wanting to save them before saving all the animals (however, I'd take the animals before all the thugs, rapists, murderers, etc.).

If only, if only - there's always an if only, 20/20 hindsight. But you work with what you have now.