PDA

View Full Version : I'm so angry part 2



Pages : [1] 2

chicoliving
09-06-2005, 10:03 PM
Continue here....


Link from part one

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28612


Edit by MK For Chico

Ntegrity
09-06-2005, 10:05 PM
Next :woohoo:

less0305
09-06-2005, 10:06 PM
Continue here....

Bless you Chico :woohoo:

less0305
09-06-2005, 10:17 PM
Hmmmmm, do you think that ended everyone's angry thoughts? LOL

DEPUTYDAWG
09-06-2005, 10:20 PM
Hmmmmm, do you think that ended everyone's angry thoughts? LOL


I'm going to take it personally...I replied to Dara, and then the thread got locked! (She must have read my dissertation from earlier and decided there just wasn't enough bandwidth ;) )

But THANK YOU Chico!

concernedperson
09-06-2005, 10:22 PM
Hmmmmm, do you think that ended everyone's angry thoughts? LOL

Not mind. I still see babies who should be with their moms and I still see displaced persons all over the south.If you see a better scenario please share.Not slamming you but this isn't a picnic.

less0305
09-06-2005, 10:26 PM
Not mind. I still see babies who should be with their moms and I still see displaced persons all over the south.If you see a better scenario please share.Not slamming you but this isn't a picnic.

Oh, my good grief. Like I meant anything by that. Yeah, I'm picnicking here.

Beyond Belief
09-06-2005, 10:27 PM
Definitely not a picnic. Its hard to describe how something this huge affects everyone even if your not directly involved. It seems to have that numbing feeling.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-06-2005, 10:30 PM
Without naming names or agencies, ahem....today was an interesting day at work. Great people doing great work in assisting the evacuees...a dept that I am proud to work in/at, I'm proud to say they do a pretty bang-up job :woohoo:


AND YET....

some tensions flaring, peers that are normally great friends getting into some turf wars, etc. And my boss even didn't have a lot of patience with a citizen that had been TOLD to call him by the local Sheriff's Dept (can you say, passing the buck?!). :eek:

BUT...

all done to continue the day's work and on-going planning that has to be revised, etc. Manpower schedule revisions, equipment, communications, etc. :clap: Oh yeah, and "business as usual" work.

There's a lot of good going on in this tragedy.

kgeaux
09-06-2005, 10:42 PM
This maybe doesn't belong in an "angry" thread, but I'm not sure it deserves its own thread. But like DeputyDawg says good things are happening!


There were 83 homes and 10 townhomes purchased in Lafayette by Friday of last week. Over the weekend, a very large international oil company purchased 20 plus homes to house their displaced employees.

Apartment complexes are waiving their usual fees to get displaced families in a home of their own.

4,000 children have registered in the Lafayette Parish School system by this afternoon at 4:30PM.

Record donations have been made to our local food bank, red cross donations are flowing in, the Salvation Army clothed about 2,000 individuals today! :dance:

I'm so touched by the outpouring of love for those in need.

txsvicki
09-06-2005, 10:58 PM
I just read over in another forum that Barbara Bush said that since the survivors were already so poor, they are doing pretty well in the Astrodome. Does anyone know if this is true, if she really said that?

concernedperson
09-06-2005, 11:09 PM
Yeah, that is true. just one more thing to deal with.

KrazyKollector
09-06-2005, 11:16 PM
This maybe doesn't belong in an "angry" thread, but I'm not sure it deserves its own thread. But like DeputyDawg says good things are happening!


There were 83 homes and 10 townhomes purchased in Lafayette by Friday of last week. Over the weekend, a very large international oil company purchased 20 plus homes to house their displaced employees.

Apartment complexes are waiving their usual fees to get displaced families in a home of their own.

4,000 children have registered in the Lafayette Parish School system by this afternoon at 4:30PM.

Record donations have been made to our local food bank, red cross donations are flowing in, the Salvation Army clothed about 2,000 individuals today! :dance:

I'm so touched by the outpouring of love for those in need.Yea! Any sparkling of positive news is needed and cherished.
It's going to take a long time to pump all that water out of NO, but I heard the Mayor say he estimated that now only 60% of NO is under water.
More rescues today and more people who just refuse to leave.

And the prayers continue....

Tom'sGirl
09-06-2005, 11:22 PM
I just read over in another forum that Barbara Bush said that since the survivors were already so poor, they are doing pretty well in the Astrodome. Does anyone know if this is true, if she really said that?I have no idea if she said that or not, BUT if she did I think I understand what she may have meant.

I sit out here in sunny Southern CA where even the poor kids have GameBoys and so forth. Even the poor have Cell Phones. In general even the poor are a spoiled lot and I didn't see that in the people that were rescused, they had nothing in most cases except each other and a T.V.

What Barbara may have meant IF she said that was that some had lived in such poor conditions and were a strong lot of individuals and could endure more than those who had much more.

I've been watching my local station and seeing small groups being flown in by private jet to Los Angeles where they will be housed at The Dream Center in Echo Park which was a former hospital (Queen of Angels). They expect to house approx. 300 by this weekend.

Already most of them don't want to go back (a few of the older ones do) one young guy said he felt like a Rock Star, so sad, he was so impressed with his new clothes and coming to California. Some actually think they could afford to live here, which of course they won't, it just breaks my heart.

Lets wait and see if Barbara did make that statement, and IF she did, I think I'll understand what she meant.

Tom'sGirl
09-06-2005, 11:27 PM
This maybe doesn't belong in an "angry" thread, but I'm not sure it deserves its own thread. But like DeputyDawg says good things are happening!


There were 83 homes and 10 townhomes purchased in Lafayette by Friday of last week. Over the weekend, a very large international oil company purchased 20 plus homes to house their displaced employees.

Apartment complexes are waiving their usual fees to get displaced families in a home of their own.

4,000 children have registered in the Lafayette Parish School system by this afternoon at 4:30PM.

Record donations have been made to our local food bank, red cross donations are flowing in, the Salvation Army clothed about 2,000 individuals today! :dance:

I'm so touched by the outpouring of love for those in need.kgeaux, have you noticed how the towns that are taking in the evacuees are immediately getting the kids into schools? I think this is great!

They started placing the evacuated children in school out here today, and in San Diego I think they start next week. I think they're making sure all the kids have their immunitizations first and school clothes.

KrazyKollector
09-06-2005, 11:33 PM
From what I've read so far, reading Drudge basically, she said it.
I have always been a fan of the plain spoken Momma Bush, but I think that this time, she caught a case of foot-in-mouth disease. I don't think she meant anything bad by it, but it just came out that way.
But, her DH is not President any longer so what she says doesn't hold a lot of "heavy" influence with me.

Nova
09-07-2005, 12:17 AM
Without naming names or agencies, ahem....today was an interesting day at work. Great people doing great work in assisting the evacuees...a dept that I am proud to work in/at, I'm proud to say they do a pretty bang-up job :woohoo:


AND YET....

some tensions flaring, peers that are normally great friends getting into some turf wars, etc. And my boss even didn't have a lot of patience with a citizen that had been TOLD to call him by the local Sheriff's Dept (can you say, passing the buck?!). :eek:

BUT...

all done to continue the day's work and on-going planning that has to be revised, etc. Manpower schedule revisions, equipment, communications, etc. :clap: Oh yeah, and "business as usual" work.

There's a lot of good going on in this tragedy.

Deputy, I don't think anyone here doubts there is great heroism going on throughout the devastated regions. Many of the survivors have said as much.

It's the upper management we're faulting, not those who put their lives on the line.

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 12:40 AM
I am getting angrier the more and more I see that photo of all those school buses on that parking lot floodd to their roof tops. If the plan for the state was put into action, hundreds and maybe thousands of people could have been saved .... there were a LOT of buses on that lot ... what a waste. :mad:

Details
09-07-2005, 01:20 AM
kgeaux, have you noticed how the towns that are taking in the evacuees are immediately getting the kids into schools? I think this is great!I wonder if the kids think the same thing...:laugh:

<whinykid>Geeze - you'd think having your school and entire city destroyed would get you more than just a week off from school! And they're even acting like they're being nice by shoving us back in to a new school! :p </whinykid>

rollerbladr123
09-07-2005, 02:29 AM
From what I've read so far, reading Drudge basically, she said it.
I have always been a fan of the plain spoken Momma Bush, but I think that this time, she caught a case of foot-in-mouth disease. I don't think she meant anything bad by it, but it just came out that way.
But, her DH is not President any longer so what she says doesn't hold a lot of "heavy" influence with me.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054719

Quote 1 NEW YORK Accompanying her husband, former President George
H.W.Bush, on a tour of hurricane relief centers in
Houston, Barbara Bush said today, referring to the
poor who had lost everything back home and evacuated, "This is working very well for them."

Quote 2 In a segment at the top of the show on the surge of
evacuees to the Texas city, Barbara Bush said: "Almost
everyone I’ve talked to says we're going to move to
Houston."

Then she added: "What I’m hearing which is sort of
scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is
so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."

more at link...

JBean
09-07-2005, 06:17 AM
I am getting angrier the more and more I see that photo of all those school buses on that parking lot floodd to their roof tops. If the plan for the state was put into action, hundreds and maybe thousands of people could have been saved .... there were a LOT of buses on that lot ... what a waste. :mad: you should be mad. according to my sister there were hundreds of unused buses that could have saved people with advanced planning at the local level.

less0305
09-07-2005, 07:41 AM
you should be mad. according to my sister there were hundreds of unused buses that could have saved people with advanced planning at the local level.

And if they couldn't get people out before the storm....why weren't they moved so they could have been used AFTER the storm to get people out?? Who leaves their fleet of transportation like a sitting duck?? Now, some disasters I can understand, tornado, earthquake, etc. But it wasn't like the Mayor didn't see the hurricane coming for a few days. He made some mistakes obviously.

The president and federal agencies will be held accountable through the many, many investigations and congressional hearings to make sure of that. I doubt there will be any kind of formal review at the city and state levels...other than the possibility of being voted out in the next election.

kgeaux
09-07-2005, 07:49 AM
kgeaux, have you noticed how the towns that are taking in the evacuees are immediately getting the kids into schools? I think this is great!

They started placing the evacuated children in school out here today, and in San Diego I think they start next week. I think they're making sure all the kids have their immunitizations first and school clothes.


Yes, the communities are really moving to try to bring some normalicy into the lives of these children. I don't think my district is even worried about immunizations at this point, those are required in every district in the state so I guess it's assumed that if they were in school in the NO area, the shots are up to date. We've got people giving uniforms out, too. Most of us had some to give, some people with more resources are able to purchase and donate brand new uniforms. A couple of families I know had kids with 5 uniforms and gave up 2. They've just made a commitment to wash uniforms more often, and pray for the displaced kids everytime they have to wash.

We've got some kids that have already started in classes, some will start today, and all by Monday. They are staggering and trying to fit in. School board is struggling to find enough text books, but we'll get it.

**As an aside: A school board member yesterday stated 4000 new registrations, the newspaper this morning is saying 2800! That's quite a little difference! I am wondering what is true!!


And if they couldn't get people out before the storm....why weren't they moved so they could have been used AFTER the storm to get people out?? Who leaves their fleet of transportation like a sitting duck?? Now, some disasters I can understand, tornado, earthquake, etc. But it wasn't like the Mayor didn't see the hurricane coming for a few days. He made some mistakes obviously.

The president and federal agencies will be held accountable through the many, many investigations and congressional hearings to make sure of that. I doubt there will be any kind of formal review at the city and state levels...other than the possibility of being voted out in the next election.


State and local responses are being investigated! No one is going to be able to sweep this under the rug.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 08:41 AM
Deputy, I don't think anyone here doubts there is great heroism going on throughout the devastated regions. Many of the survivors have said as much.

It's the upper management we're faulting, not those who put their lives on the line.


Hi Nova,

Actually I have never felt anyone was faulting the rescue workers themselves. Exactly the opposite. I posted that primarily for two reasons: 1) to show that even in one public service agency, there is great procedures, plans and staff, and yet confusion, tempers, opinions, still affect us everyday, without losing sight of the purpose; and 2) to give another kudos to any improvements/rescues and help given, no matter how small. I don't like losing sight of that. Guess I like reading/seeing the good, and like to mix it in with the negatives.

I look at this agency of 7,000+ as just a small community of our larger community of the US.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 08:43 AM
Our schools here in Central TX are having the evacuees show up in greater numbers on a daily basis. Today, my daughter's school will start with 2. Not a large number, but the kids at the HS made welcoming banners, etc. yesterday. That just gives me GOOD chills - can you imagine being one of the evacuees, having no normal or routine life that you knew, showing up to a new school with welcome banners, etc. hanging out in front for you? Awesome. :clap:

ETA: And kgeaux, you're right, why am I posting this on a "I am so angry" thread. Sorry to all :doh:

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 08:47 AM
Okay, back to being angry, to stay on topic, LOL

On Fox today, I think it was the Lt. Commander or similar for the Army National Guard being interviewed - and there was still confusion on who is in charge of them, the Governor or General Honore, if I heard it correctly. Did anyone else see this interview (about 6:40am CST)? What is it that's still not clear, who's in charge?

Ugh. :doh:

TexMex
09-07-2005, 08:59 AM
And if they couldn't get people out before the storm....why weren't they moved so they could have been used AFTER the storm to get people out?? Who leaves their fleet of transportation like a sitting duck?? Now, some disasters I can understand, tornado, earthquake, etc. But it wasn't like the Mayor didn't see the hurricane coming for a few days. He made some mistakes obviously.

The president and federal agencies will be held accountable through the many, many investigations and congressional hearings to make sure of that. I doubt there will be any kind of formal review at the city and state levels...other than the possibility of being voted out in the next election.


The mayor was asked about the buses yesterday and had "no comment" :banghead:

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 09:44 AM
The mayor was asked about the buses yesterday and had "no comment" :banghead:

It'll be interesting to hear from City employees later - who was supposed to be driving the buses, etc. What were they told?

JBean
09-07-2005, 09:47 AM
It'll be interesting to hear from City employees later - who was supposed to be driving the buses, etc. What were they told?I wonder if it says in that city plan who is supposed to man the buses? Surely they would have thought of that in advance? I will check the manual.

less0305
09-07-2005, 09:48 AM
Okay, back to being angry, to stay on topic, LOL

On Fox today, I think it was the Lt. Commander or similar for the Army National Guard being interviewed - and there was still confusion on who is in charge of them, the Governor or General Honore, if I heard it correctly. Did anyone else see this interview (about 6:40am CST)? What is it that's still not clear, who's in charge?

Ugh. :doh:


Deputy....I heard that. I think it still has a little something to do with maybe the Governor still hasn't signed executive orders allowing the federal government to take charge. So I think the State National Guard troops are still under command of the Governor. I'm not sure I have that right, but that was my thinking anyway.

Speaking of being angry and ridiculous comments:

Did you hear the Mayor's comment regarding sending police officers on vacation (many of whom are "reportedly" not wanting to go anyway)? Britt Hume asked him how he could justify sending law enforcement on a mandatory vacation when there are still people to rescue and much work to be done - Mayor Nagin said these words... "This is a party city. Get over it."

Loved that one!!

And another thing I wondered if anyone saw....

Last night on MSNBC show Oberman (I believe it was) he does a "Worse, Worser, Worst" segment or monologue and he gave the "Worst" award to Geraldo Rivera because it is claimed that Geraldo staged some footage of him helping "rescue" a woman and her dog. Said the scene was set up and filmed and then filmed again because something wasn't right with the first shot. By the way, Michael Jackson was the "worser" award. I can't remember who was the "worse."

Dara
09-07-2005, 09:53 AM
CNN has reported that last night on Capitol Hill a "contentious closed door meeting" took place. They said a steady stream of Republicans and Democrats ripped into the federal government's response. And Michael Chertoff said conditions in the SuperDome weren't as bad as reported, despite, CNN pointed out, the images that were reported over and over. His comments were not well received.

I guess he didn't read the headlines (imaginary headlines (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2005/09/06/chertoff-i-remember-on-_n_6925.html)?) in the newspaper about that.

It's nice to know in a national disaster, the man in charge of Homeland Security will blame state and local government for not telling him how bad things were while they were going on and then later, claiming they weren't as bad (thought he didn't know) as is being widely reported.

Kind of explains the stories of fireman sitting around and not being properly allocated while victims are still waiting for help.

TexMex
09-07-2005, 09:57 AM
It'll be interesting to hear from City employees later - who was supposed to be driving the buses, etc. What were they told?


Article from The Telegraph (UK)




Consider the signature image of the flood: an aerial shot of 255 school buses neatly parked at one city lot, their fuel tanks leaking gasoline into the urban lake. An enterprising blogger, Bryan Preston, worked out that each bus had 66 seats, which meant that the vehicles at just that one lot could have ferried out 16,830 people. Instead of entrusting its most vulnerable citizens to the gang-infested faecal hell of the Superdome, New Orleans had more than enough municipal transport on hand to have got almost everyone out in a couple of runs last Sunday.

Why didn't they? Well, the mayor didn't give the order. OK, but how about school board officials, or the fellows with the public schools transportation department, or the guy who runs that motor pool, or the individual bus drivers? If it ever occurred to any of them that these were potentially useful evacuation assets, they kept it to themselves.

So the first school bus to escape New Orleans and make it to safety in Texas was one that had been abandoned on a city street. A party of sodden citizens, ranging from the elderly to an eight-day-old baby, were desperate to get out, hopped aboard and got teenager Jabbor Gibson to drive them 13 hours non-stop to Houston. He'd never driven a bus before, and the authorities back in New Orleans may yet prosecute him. For rescuing people without a permit?
__________________


Morning Dawg

TexMex
09-07-2005, 09:59 AM
CNN has reported that last night on Capitol Hill a "contentious closed door meeting" took place. They said a steady stream of Republicans and Democrats ripped into the federal government's response. And Michael Chertoff said conditions in the SuperDome weren't as bad as reported, despite, CNN pointed out, the images that were reported over and over. His comments were not well received.

I guess he didn't read the headlines (imaginary headlines (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2005/09/06/chertoff-i-remember-on-_n_6925.html)?) in the newspaper about that.

It's nice to know in a national disaster, the man in charge of Homeland Security will blame state and local government for not telling him how bad things were while they were going on and then later, claiming they weren't as bad (thought he didn't know) as is being widely reported.

Kind of explains the stories of fireman sitting around and not being properly allocated while victims are still waiting for help.


The mayor pointed out yesterday that as bad as things were at the Dome at least the majority of people there are alive. Those that refused evacuation--the majority are dead.

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 10:03 AM
Article from The Telegraph (UK)




Consider the signature image of the flood: an aerial shot of 255 school buses neatly parked at one city lot, their fuel tanks leaking gasoline into the urban lake. An enterprising blogger, Bryan Preston, worked out that each bus had 66 seats, which meant that the vehicles at just that one lot could have ferried out 16,830 people. Instead of entrusting its most vulnerable citizens to the gang-infested faecal hell of the Superdome, New Orleans had more than enough municipal transport on hand to have got almost everyone out in a couple of runs last Sunday.

Why didn't they? Well, the mayor didn't give the order. OK, but how about school board officials, or the fellows with the public schools transportation department, or the guy who runs that motor pool, or the individual bus drivers? If it ever occurred to any of them that these were potentially useful evacuation assets, they kept it to themselves.

So the first school bus to escape New Orleans and make it to safety in Texas was one that had been abandoned on a city street. A party of sodden citizens, ranging from the elderly to an eight-day-old baby, were desperate to get out, hopped aboard and got teenager Jabbor Gibson to drive them 13 hours non-stop to Houston. He'd never driven a bus before, and the authorities back in New Orleans may yet prosecute him. For rescuing people without a permit?
__________________


Morning Dawg
wow, 16,830 people. what a damn shame.

thanks for posting this.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 10:05 AM
I wonder if it says in that city plan who is supposed to man the buses? Surely they would have thought of that in advance? I will check the manual.


Surely!!! But were they properly trained, were they properly communicated to in the days leading up to the hurricane? Surely (!) they were given direct instruction as to who would be doing what. Or did they all just abandon their duties? I'd like to hear whose direction they took. To me, the bus situation should be one of the easiest ones to get to the bottom of...what WAS the plan? Did they go out into the neighborhoods in the days leading up to it and try to rescue those who didn't have the means to evacuate themselves? We get conflicting info on that, yes they did, no they didn't. ;)

Dara
09-07-2005, 10:06 AM
The mayor pointed out yesterday that as bad as things were at the Dome at least the majority of people there are alive. Those that refused evacuation--the majority are dead.
That is true. That is also quite different than saying things were not as bad as was and is being reported, as Chertoff did. It's damage control. Thank goodness it sounds like his audience was not interested in revisionist history and excuses.

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 10:11 AM
Surely!!! But were they properly trained, were they properly communicated to in the days leading up to the hurricane? Surely (!) they were given direct instruction as to who would be doing what. Or did they all just abandon their duties? I'd like to hear whose direction they took. To me, the bus situation should be one of the easiest ones to get to the bottom of...what WAS the plan? Did they go out into the neighborhoods in the days leading up to it and try to rescue those who didn't have the means to evacuate themselves? We get conflicting info on that, yes they did, no they didn't. ;)yeah, we may never know the truth. :(

Just like the story I read the other day about the police officers abandoning their duties and not showing up either. What's the truth behind that? :(

a lot of people failed to do their jobs and let a lot of people down. luckily there were so many others who DID their jobs.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 10:12 AM
Deputy....I heard that. I think it still has a little something to do with maybe the Governor still hasn't signed executive orders allowing the federal government to take charge. So I think the State National Guard troops are still under command of the Governor. I'm not sure I have that right, but that was my thinking anyway.

Speaking of being angry and ridiculous comments:

Did you hear the Mayor's comment regarding sending police officers on vacation (many of whom are "reportedly" not wanting to go anyway)? Britt Hume asked him how he could justify sending law enforcement on a mandatory vacation when there are still people to rescue and much work to be done - Mayor Nagin said these words... "This is a party city. Get over it."

Loved that one!!

And another thing I wondered if anyone saw....

Last night on MSNBC show Oberman (I believe it was) he does a "Worse, Worser, Worst" segment or monologue and he gave the "Worst" award to Geraldo Rivera because it is claimed that Geraldo staged some footage of him helping "rescue" a woman and her dog. Said the scene was set up and filmed and then filmed again because something wasn't right with the first shot. By the way, Michael Jackson was the "worser" award. I can't remember who was the "worse."

Less, you're killing me. Interesting, but sad quotes. It is no longer a party city. Get over it? Oh my.

And I'm glad you saw that Fox interview as well. So, we're all angry about the right hand not talking to the left hand in the first 24-48 hours of this disaster. But here, over a week later, there is STILL confusion over who is in charge of the different Guard units? I just don't understand. And yes, shouldn't or can't Bush step in and stop the power struggles or whatever? :doh: I know I don't know all the story and the behind the scenes actions...but DANG!

JBean
09-07-2005, 10:14 AM
Surely!!! But were they properly trained, were they properly communicated to in the days leading up to the hurricane? Surely (!) they were given direct instruction as to who would be doing what. Or did they all just abandon their duties? I'd like to hear whose direction they took. To me, the bus situation should be one of the easiest ones to get to the bottom of...what WAS the plan? Did they go out into the neighborhoods in the days leading up to it and try to rescue those who didn't have the means to evacuate themselves? We get conflicting info on that, yes they did, no they didn't. ;)This is the part I just cannot get passed. Officials of the city and state knew the potential for danger for their own people, yet it seems almost as if they did nothing. I just cannot reconcile this in my head. IT's like me not fending for my own family and just assuming the locals will pick up the slack for me. It's just outrageous.

TexMex
09-07-2005, 10:16 AM
That is true. That is also quite different than saying things were not as bad as was and is being reported, as Chertoff did. It's damage control. Thank goodness it sounds like his audience was not interested in revisionist history and excuses.


But who told those people to go to the Dome, bring their OWN food and water---then LEFT them there without generators, police protection or even water. I believe it was the Mayor. He put them there. He knew they were there. Did he visit the Dome, post flood? Did he do a damn thing to help them?
Talk about damage control. What happened to those folks should haunt him every night. He could have put them all on buses Sunday--before the Hurricane hit. :doh:

Dara
09-07-2005, 10:19 AM
But who told those people to go to the Dome, bring their OWN food and water---then LEFT them there without generators, police protection or even water. I believe it was the Mayor. He put them there. He knew they were there. Did he visit the Dome, post flood? Did he do a damn thing to help them?
Talk about damage control. What happened to those folks should haunt him every night. He could have put them all on buses Sunday--before the Hurricane hit. :doh:
Chertoff went into a meeting and tried to downplay the situation. Perhaps he still is uninformed. Perhaps he lied. I am concerned with his statement.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 10:24 AM
This is the part I just cannot get passed. Officials of the city and state knew the potential for danger for their own people, yet it seems almost as if they did nothing. I just cannot reconcile this in my head. IT's like me not fending for my own family and just assuming the locals will pick up the slack for me. It's just outrageous.

Me either. And if I were in the City or local gov't as a leader (any of them, not just the Mayor -who is the City's Emergency Operations Planner or ?, by the way, where has he/she been?)...I think those pictures of those 216 +/- buses flooded in that lot, would and should bring me nightmares for many, many years to come. AND THEY HAD DAYS OF ADVANCE WARNING!!! It's not like an earthquake situation. :doh:

TexMex
09-07-2005, 10:39 AM
This is the part I just cannot get passed. Officials of the city and state knew the potential for danger for their own people, yet it seems almost as if they did nothing. I just cannot reconcile this in my head. IT's like me not fending for my own family and just assuming the locals will pick up the slack for me. It's just outrageous.

It really is....they knew this was the Big One on Sat. Bush had to call the Gov
and talk her into a mandatory evacuation which was ordered Sunday. It's not like the mayor and Gov had no knowledge of what they were facing

WSJ:

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his/her emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected. :doh:
__________________

JBean
09-07-2005, 10:47 AM
It really is....they knew this was the Big One on Sat. Bush had to call the Gov
and talk her into a mandatory evacuation which was ordered Sunday. It's not like the mayor and Gov had no knowledge of what they were facing

WSJ:

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his/her emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected. :doh:
__________________I posted early on that my sister ,who is an expert in disaster relief, said it is up to the city and state officials to provide first line defense for it's citizens,with a goal of 72 hours. Set up it's citizens with pre-planning to hold down the fort til the big guns arrive. In this case, it just seems they ran for cover leaving evryne to wait for FEMA and/or fend for themselves. Worst of it being, the local govt knew exactly what would happen to these people!
The argument that the president should have overidden that mayor is an interesting one. Interesting, because they only way the President will do that is based on information he is given. That information is supplied to him by the GOVERNOR!

Marstan
09-07-2005, 10:49 AM
I received this today via email. Kinda hits where it hurts.

Subject: Katrina Reveals the True Sides of People


An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the
Welfare state
by Robert Tracinsk

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out
how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it
has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The
reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are
confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is
obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to
evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the
flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural
disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people
pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors,
nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do
is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are
suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not
expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about
rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by
federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane
Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has
gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen
over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane
Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be
confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an
emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other
emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying
that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what
we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They
work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to
keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an
enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than
waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a
hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had
gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as
impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large
ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a
description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives
and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and
rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in
to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas
National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

" 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,' she
said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know
how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary
and I expect they will.' "

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article
shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an
armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid,
listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly
like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an
orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm
the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to
drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the
doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further
destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a
sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News
Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied
architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the
South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of
the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as
they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable
squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of
the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational
phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some
vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans
had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who
remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack
Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN
and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the
prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is
no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a
large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects,
and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the
deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two
groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over
decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The
welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration
of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the
city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city,
despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted
by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of
handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to
ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some
are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for
failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an
adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the
Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on
American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos
was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the
welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is
behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a
disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the
difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the
government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster
as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving
their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do
they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are
going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do
they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way
of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and
encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that
has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 10:54 AM
It really is....they knew this was the Big One on Sat. Bush had to call the Gov
and talk her into a mandatory evacuation which was ordered Sunday. It's not like the mayor and Gov had no knowledge of what they were facing


A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected. :doh:
__________________


(Hiya Tex, didn't mean to pass over your greeting earlier...)

The part you bolded, is very telling and disturbing re local and State. And IIRC, Dara's articles about Hurricane Pam (a mock study, or something similar?) from June, 04, done by the feds. Okay, so we had the feds doing a mock study, which showed actions needed to be taken; we've got real life Hurricane Ivan and the piss-poor job actually done by the locals and State. All 3 levels had over a year to be working to improve this. I'd love to know what actions, at all 3 levels, had been taken during the last 12-14 months....

TexMex
09-07-2005, 11:12 AM
CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH?
Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 shows:

Blame Game -- 13% said George W. Bush is "most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane"; 18% said "federal agencies"; 25% said "state and local officials"; 38% said "no one is to blame"; 6% had no opinion. -- 29% said that "top officials in the federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired"; 63% said they should not; 8% had no opinion.

MORE

Government Performance -- 10% said George W. Bush has done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 25% said "good"; 21% said "neither good nor bad"; 18% said "bad"; 24% said "terrible"; 2% had no opinion. -- 8% said federal government agencies responsible for handling emergencies have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 27% said "good"; 20% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 22% said "terrible"; 3% had no opinion. -- 7% said state and local officials in Louisiana have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 30% said "good"; 23% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 15% said "terrible"; 5% had no opinion.

KrazyKollector
09-07-2005, 11:18 AM
But who told those people to go to the Dome, bring their OWN food and water---then LEFT them there without generators, police protection or even water. I believe it was the Mayor. He put them there. He knew they were there. Did he visit the Dome, post flood? Did he do a damn thing to help them?
Talk about damage control. What happened to those folks should haunt him every night. He could have put them all on buses Sunday--before the Hurricane hit. :doh:Where was the mayor when Katrina hit? Not at the Dome, that's for sure.

He had a disaster plan and didn't follow it. Same at the State level.
A lot will come out in the weeks to come. Sadly, for many, it won't all be against the current President. :rolleyes:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ThisHour.asp#Louisiana%20Officials%20Could%20Lose% 20the%20Katrina%20Blame%20Game

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 11:33 AM
I received this today via email. Kinda hits where it hurts.

Subject: Katrina Reveals the True Sides of People


An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the
Welfare state
by Robert Tracinsk



Wow, good article. Yep, it hurts.

marrigotti
09-07-2005, 12:40 PM
Great article, Marstan.

BarnGoddess
09-07-2005, 01:00 PM
Marsten, that article is exactly what I have said on threads here. I would go back further and look at Gov. Huey P. Long who created a lot of the welfare system there.

Ntegrity
09-07-2005, 01:13 PM
Marstan, that's a fabulous article. Thanks so much for sharing. A few of us who dared to say basically the same thing were called RACISTS (yes, in capital letters!).

Dara
09-07-2005, 01:25 PM
Michael Brown's job is safe. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/09/07/national/w095209D05.DTL)

And apparently nothing went wrong last week.


At a news conference, Pelosi, D-Calif., said Bush's choice for head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency had "absolutely no credentials."

She related that she had urged Bush at the White House on Tuesday to fire Michael Brown.

"He said 'Why would I do that?'" Pelosi said.

"'I said because of all that went wrong, of all that didn't go right last week.' And he said 'What didn't go right?'"

"Oblivious, in denial, dangerous," she added.

nanandjim
09-07-2005, 01:28 PM
Marstan, that's a fabulous article. Thanks so much for sharing. A few of us who dared to say basically the same thing were called RACISTS (yes, in capital letters!).
Ditto. It's amazing how the press and others are so afraid to show and tell the real facts--for fear of being call RACISTS...

JBean
09-07-2005, 02:11 PM
Right on as usual Marstan.

Details
09-07-2005, 03:51 PM
I received this today via email. Kinda hits where it hurts.

Subject: Katrina Reveals the True Sides of People


An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the
Welfare state
by Robert Tracinsk
...
Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do
is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are
suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not
expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about
rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.
...
"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives
and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and
rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
...
There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the
deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two
groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over
decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The
welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration
of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.
...
But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving
their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do
they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are
going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do
they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way
of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and
encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that
has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005I think at long last I have my explanation for why New Orleans was so different from every other disaster, why people there reacted as they did. I'd thought every city had gotten rid of the projects - they'd found that it didn't work - you put together a bunch of people already having problems, and they just magnify each other's problems, make it harder to get off welfare, out of poverty, build a culture that is toxic and harmful to everyone in it or exposed to it. :(

Details
09-07-2005, 04:16 PM
But I still can't believe that they sank so low as to rape children and women, and that the entire crowd in the Superbowl didn't spontaneously arise to stop it immediately.

Ntegrity
09-07-2005, 04:24 PM
But I still can't believe that they sank so low as to rape children and women, and that the entire crowd in the Superbowl didn't spontaneously arise to stop it immediately.
Some did. Like the 10 or so men who used vigilante justice against the rapist and murderer of a 7 year-old girl. I applaud them.

Details
09-07-2005, 04:28 PM
Some did. Like the 10 or so men who used vigilante justice against the rapist and murderer of a 7 year-old girl. I applaud them.So do I - but why wait until after the rape and murder? The superbowl was full, so other people at least had to be around while that was happening. And there were many others.

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 06:18 PM
you should be mad. according to my sister there were hundreds of unused buses that could have saved people with advanced planning at the local level.
I think in the beginning I heard they had 250 school buses that were on hand, and no order was sent to the bus drivers to report even though they would have received over-time pay!

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 06:22 PM
Deputy....I heard that. I think it still has a little something to do with maybe the Governor still hasn't signed executive orders allowing the federal government to take charge. So I think the State National Guard troops are still under command of the Governor. I'm not sure I have that right, but that was my thinking anyway.

Speaking of being angry and ridiculous comments:

Did you hear the Mayor's comment regarding sending police officers on vacation (many of whom are "reportedly" not wanting to go anyway)? Britt Hume asked him how he could justify sending law enforcement on a mandatory vacation when there are still people to rescue and much work to be done - Mayor Nagin said these words... "This is a party city. Get over it."

Loved that one!!

And another thing I wondered if anyone saw....

Last night on MSNBC show Oberman (I believe it was) he does a "Worse, Worser, Worst" segment or monologue and he gave the "Worst" award to Geraldo Rivera because it is claimed that Geraldo staged some footage of him helping "rescue" a woman and her dog. Said the scene was set up and filmed and then filmed again because something wasn't right with the first shot. By the way, Michael Jackson was the "worser" award. I can't remember who was the "worse."
Did you hear the Mayor (think it was Sunday) during an interview say something to the effect of this being "the cleansing of New Orleans" ? He also said he hoped when some of the people returned they would be better citizens.......or somthing like that!

My mouth full of coffee almost fell open.

concernedperson
09-07-2005, 06:30 PM
Did you hear the Mayor (think it was Sunday) during an interview say something to the effect of this being "the cleansing of New Orleans" ? He also said he hoped when some of the people returned they would be better citizens.......or somthing like that!

My mouth full of coffee almost fell open.

I am not so sure that you aren't correct. I didn't hear that but something is up.I can't believe the stalling at all points, the local, the state,the fed, most I am sure is politics as usual but it is pretty upsetting for those in the path of this unbelievable disaster.

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 06:30 PM
I wonder if the kids think the same thing...:laugh:

<whinykid>Geeze - you'd think having your school and entire city destroyed would get you more than just a week off from school! And they're even acting like they're being nice by shoving us back in to a new school! :p </whinykid>You're right Details, they probably aren't all that happy :D and the schools they'll be going to will be so different from those they were used to.

At least it will give their parents/families a few hours a day to try and sort out what they are going to do without having to care for their kids at the same time.

cynder
09-07-2005, 06:39 PM
I think in the beginning I heard they had 250 school buses that were on hand, and no order was sent to the bus drivers to report even though they would have received over-time pay!
Where would they have taken these people? Remember these would have been indigents, nursing home residents, elderly, sick, disabled, mixed with families, children and NONE of them with money or a place to go. Roads clogged with traffic, Superdome full to bursting, Baton Rouge filled to overflow. Were they just to park them on the side of the road somewhere north of New Orleans? Where was FEMA with shelters and coordinating with other states? Why was the Red Cross denied access? Where were the people to go to be collected? Were there sufficient securiy persons on hand to supervise this busing? You can't just expect folks to calmly load on buses - look at the mess at the Superdome...at the Convention Center. Before the storm FEMA was nowhere, Nat'l Guard was nowhere, aid workers were positioned far outside the storm area. For all we know as many people could have been killed in the riots and violence inherant in an uncontrollable rush to board these buses as drowned later.
It's easy to say that 250 buses sat unused - people forget that it would have been a huge logistical undertaking with few good answers - more people at the Superdome? Convention Center? Hospitals? Busloads of people with nowhere to go? Since "help" took literally DAYS to arrive would the evacuation of MORE people have meant more deaths in the so-called shelters?
No matter how you look at this leadership was lacking, help was lacking, preparation was lacking - and on EVERYONE's part. Ultimately though, it is FEMA who bears the brunt of the responsibility and FEMA who was out of touch and unresponsive. Evacuating a million people should not be left to the Mayor or even the Gov to handle alone without significant National Agency support, No city, no state has those kinds of resources.

marrigotti
09-07-2005, 06:41 PM
Did you hear the Mayor (think it was Sunday) during an interview say something to the effect of this being "the cleansing of New Orleans" ? He also said he hoped when some of the people returned they would be better citizens.......or somthing like that!

My mouth full of coffee almost fell open.

It was not the mayor. It was the President of the City Council.

Here is the article.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/sep/05090111.html

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 06:47 PM
Now I am so angry about the 20 to 30 bodies found in the nursing home.

What the heck failed them there??

Casshew
09-07-2005, 06:50 PM
Now I am so angry about the 20 to 30 bodies found in the nursing home.

What the heck failed them there??
Me too. :furious:

There is no need for anything like this to happen. It is obscene.

I want to know if this is a private or state run nursing home, who was responsible for these residents??

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 06:51 PM
It was not the mayor. It was the President of the City Council.

Here is the article.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/sep/05090111.htmlThanks for that link, there also have been some religious leaders there who have mentioned the "cleansing", but it was Mayor Nagin that also brought it up along with hoping for better citizens and so forth.

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 06:51 PM
Here's the story ... http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/07/katrina.impact/index.html

Casshew, I'm with you. This is obscene

cynder
09-07-2005, 06:55 PM
Now I am so angry about the 20 to 30 bodies found in the nursing home. What the heck failed them there??
What failed was the caretakers. When they were told to evacuate their patients they did not. When the waters rose the caretakers abandoned the patients to die in their beds. The owners/managers of the nursing home bear FULL responsibilty for these people's deaths. They were charged with caring for these patients (who could not care for themselves) and they failed to do so. Nothing anyone could have done to prevent this one - who knew these people would abandon their patients not once (by not evacuating them or moving them to a hospital), but TWICE!
These caretakers should be proscuted for murder.

JBean
09-07-2005, 06:57 PM
Where would they have taken these people? Remember these would have been indigents, nursing home residents, elderly, sick, disabled, mixed with families, children and NONE of them with money or a place to go. Roads clogged with traffic, Superdome full to bursting, Baton Rouge filled to overflow. Were they just to park them on the side of the road somewhere north of New Orleans? Where was FEMA with shelters and coordinating with other states? Why was the Red Cross denied access? Where were the people to go to be collected? Were there sufficient securiy persons on hand to supervise this busing? You can't just expect folks to calmly load on buses - look at the mess at the Superdome...at the Convention Center. Before the storm FEMA was nowhere, Nat'l Guard was nowhere, aid workers were positioned far outside the storm area. For all we know as many people could have been killed in the riots and violence inherant in an uncontrollable rush to board these buses as drowned later.
It's easy to say that 250 buses sat unused - people forget that it would have been a huge logistical undertaking with few good answers - more people at the Superdome? Convention Center? Hospitals? Busloads of people with nowhere to go? Since "help" took literally DAYS to arrive would the evacuation of MORE people have meant more deaths in the so-called shelters?
No matter how you look at this leadership was lacking, help was lacking, preparation was lacking - and on EVERYONE's part. Ultimately though, it is FEMA who bears the brunt of the responsibility and FEMA who was out of touch and unresponsive. Evacuating a million people should not be left to the Mayor or even the Gov to handle alone without significant National Agency support, No city, no state has those kinds of resources.These citizens didn't move in the night before the hurricane. They have been there for years.
This should have all been spelled out in the city/state disaster evacuation plan. If the governor and the mayor did not know what to do in case of emergncy they should have FOUND out and asked for help before a hurricane ever hit. Years before it hit. We even knew what the possibilties for devastation were.It is their job to support it's citizens for 72 hours before FEMA ever arrives. If they did not have the resources it was their responsibilty to get them.

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 06:59 PM
What failed was the caretakers. When they were told to evacuate their patients they did not. When the waters rose the caretakers abandoned the patients to die in their beds. The owners/managers of the nursing home bear FULL responsibilty for these people's deaths. They were charged with caring for these patients (who could not care for themselves) and they failed to do so. Nothing anyone could have done to prevent this one - who knew these people would abandon their patients not once (by not evacuating them or moving them to a hospital), but TWICE!
These caretakers should be proscuted for murder.
I am wondering if it's all patients who died?
If the caretakers left these patients for death, I am going to really be upset. :furious:

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 07:00 PM
Where would they have taken these people? Remember these would have been indigents, nursing home residents, elderly, sick, disabled, mixed with families, children and NONE of them with money or a place to go. Roads clogged with traffic, Superdome full to bursting, Baton Rouge filled to overflow. Were they just to park them on the side of the road somewhere north of New Orleans? Where was FEMA with shelters and coordinating with other states? Why was the Red Cross denied access? Where were the people to go to be collected? Were there sufficient securiy persons on hand to supervise this busing? You can't just expect folks to calmly load on buses - look at the mess at the Superdome...at the Convention Center. Before the storm FEMA was nowhere, Nat'l Guard was nowhere, aid workers were positioned far outside the storm area. For all we know as many people could have been killed in the riots and violence inherant in an uncontrollable rush to board these buses as drowned later.
It's easy to say that 250 buses sat unused - people forget that it would have been a huge logistical undertaking with few good answers - more people at the Superdome? Convention Center? Hospitals? Busloads of people with nowhere to go? Since "help" took literally DAYS to arrive would the evacuation of MORE people have meant more deaths in the so-called shelters?
No matter how you look at this leadership was lacking, help was lacking, preparation was lacking - and on EVERYONE's part. Ultimately though, it is FEMA who bears the brunt of the responsibility and FEMA who was out of touch and unresponsive. Evacuating a million people should not be left to the Mayor or even the Gov to handle alone without significant National Agency support, No city, no state has those kinds of resources.
No excuses, they failed miserably in 2004 and didn't use the school buses even then!!!!!!........no more excuses.

What have they done since that failed evacuation to correct what went wrong.........nothing, that's what!

Details
09-07-2005, 07:04 PM
Did you hear the Mayor (think it was Sunday) during an interview say something to the effect of this being "the cleansing of New Orleans" ? He also said he hoped when some of the people returned they would be better citizens.......or somthing like that!

My mouth full of coffee almost fell open.I don't know that I don't agree with him. That city seems to be very, very sick. Raping women and children, firing at rescue workers, attacking hospitals and nurses, going after tourists or anyone white, the lack of the general crowd to stop so many of these things from happening (you'd expect a mob to attack someone trying to rape a woman or child in a rescue center, not to turn a blind eye!), so many different ways the reaction of New Orleans to disaster was inconcievable! I think spreading those people out to see what a healthier society looks like might help them return as better citizens - I sure hope so.

concernedperson
09-07-2005, 07:11 PM
I don't know that I don't agree with him. That city seems to be very, very sick. Raping women and children, firing at rescue workers, attacking hospitals and nurses, going after tourists or anyone white, the lack of the general crowd to stop so many of these things from happening (you'd expect a mob to attack someone trying to rape a woman or child in a rescue center, not to turn a blind eye!), so many different ways the reaction of New Orleans to disaster was inconcievable! I think spreading those people out to see what a healthier society looks like might help them return as better citizens - I sure hope so.

I have been trying to get attention to this State's problems for years. I am from there and have known for way too long. The problem is the good gets mixed in with the bad. And the bad are most formidable.The good have been hurt way too far. We need to respect people and at least let them get their story out there. And the animalistic behavior is deplorable to me and should be stopped without any other consideration.

kgeaux
09-07-2005, 07:18 PM
Fox news just had a Red Cross spokesman on, who confirmed something I've been hearing for a couple of days. Remember how Gov. Blanco said the Red Cross was kept from entering New Orleans because of the thugs with AK47's?
Well, the Red Cross person says they were prevented from entering by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY department. Why???? Because if food and water were delivered to the people in the superdome, they would stay there, and the state wanted them to leave New Orleans.

People, this keeps going from bad to worse.

marrigotti
09-07-2005, 07:21 PM
Fox news just had a Red Cross spokesman on, who confirmed something I've been hearing for a couple of days. Remember how Gov. Blanco said the Red Cross was kept from entering New Orleans because of the thugs with AK47's?
Well, the Red Cross person says they were prevented from entering by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY department. Why???? Because if food and water were delivered to the people in the superdome, they would stay there, and the state wanted them to leave New Orleans.

People, this keeps going from bad to worse.

Now, we're cooking with heat. I suspect that there are plenty more shockers to come.

chicoliving
09-07-2005, 07:33 PM
Of course they would stay there.....they were locked in. From bad to worse it seems....

tybee204
09-07-2005, 07:35 PM
Fox news just had a Red Cross spokesman on, who confirmed something I've been hearing for a couple of days. Remember how Gov. Blanco said the Red Cross was kept from entering New Orleans because of the thugs with AK47's?
Well, the Red Cross person says they were prevented from entering by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY department. Why???? Because if food and water were delivered to the people in the superdome, they would stay there, and the state wanted them to leave New Orleans.

People, this keeps going from bad to worse.


This fact is why I started the original "I am so angry" thread.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28612

My 1st post on it was the link to the Red Cross Page saying exactly that.

am so angry that Homeland Security blocked the Red Cross from feeding people, delivering medicine and food to Hospitals and setting up any form of relief within New Orleans to sustain life untill evacuations could be organized. Since when is the Red Cross not allowed to enter a disaster area to offer life saving services?

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,...24,00.html#4524

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

cynder
09-07-2005, 07:35 PM
Fox news just had a Red Cross spokesman on, who confirmed something I've been hearing for a couple of days. Remember how Gov. Blanco said the Red Cross was kept from entering New Orleans because of the thugs with AK47's?
Well, the Red Cross person says they were prevented from entering by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY department. Why???? Because if food and water were delivered to the people in the superdome, they would stay there, and the state wanted them to leave New Orleans.

People, this keeps going from bad to worse.
Another gem from the masters of Republican spin - Fox News.
I'll wait and see what other MSM outlets report on this one. Rupert and his merry band have been known to um "slant" things in a pro Admin way in the past. This sounds like pure "Spin" to me - the Gov and the Mayor were on TV daily BEGGING for help while unknown to THEM their own LA Dept of Homeland Security was rejecting aid? Hmmm - sure seems illogical to me? Maybe FEDERAL Homeland Security (run by Brown's Boss Chertoff) maybe, but STATE Homeland Security? Do they trump the Gov of the State? Are they within her control or do they report to Chertoff? The water in NO isn't the only thing that smells here.

dakini
09-07-2005, 07:41 PM
Another gem from the masters of Republican spin - Fox News.
I'll wait and see what other MSM outlets report on this one. Rupert and his merry band have been known to um "slant" things in a pro Admin way in the past. This sounds like pure "Spin" to me - the Gov and the Mayor were on TV daily BEGGING for help while unknown to THEM their own LA Dept of Homeland Security was rejecting aid? Hmmm - sure seems illogical to me? Maybe FEDERAL Homeland Security (run by Brown's Boss Chertoff) maybe, but STATE Homeland Security? Do they trump the Gov of the State? Are they within her control or do they report to Chertoff? The water in NO isn't the only thing that smells here.
You rock Cynder.

less0305
09-07-2005, 07:44 PM
Fox news just had a Red Cross spokesman on, who confirmed something I've been hearing for a couple of days. Remember how Gov. Blanco said the Red Cross was kept from entering New Orleans because of the thugs with AK47's?
Well, the Red Cross person says they were prevented from entering by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY department. Why???? Because if food and water were delivered to the people in the superdome, they would stay there, and the state wanted them to leave New Orleans.

People, this keeps going from bad to worse.

It was the Chairman of the Red Cross. I can't remember the title...same thing that Liddy Dole was at one time, I think. Anyway, she said they were positioned and ready to go, but the State officials wouldn't let them go in because it would encourage people to stay. I heard it too.

marrigotti
09-07-2005, 07:44 PM
Another gem from the masters of Republican spin - Fox News.
I'll wait and see what other MSM outlets report on this one. Rupert and his merry band have been known to um "slant" things in a pro Admin way in the past. This sounds like pure "Spin" to me - the Gov and the Mayor were on TV daily BEGGING for help while unknown to THEM their own LA Dept of Homeland Security was rejecting aid? Hmmm - sure seems illogical to me? Maybe FEDERAL Homeland Security (run by Brown's Boss Chertoff) maybe, but STATE Homeland Security? Do they trump the Gov of the State? Are they within her control or do they report to Chertoff? The water in NO isn't the only thing that smells here.

I am not sure that I am following you. Are you implying that the Red Cross spokesman is not being honest?

less0305
09-07-2005, 07:45 PM
This fact is why I started the original "I am so angry" thread.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28612

My 1st post on it was the link to the Red Cross Page saying exactly that.

am so angry that Homeland Security blocked the Red Cross from feeding people, delivering medicine and food to Hospitals and setting up any form of relief within New Orleans to sustain life untill evacuations could be organized. Since when is the Red Cross not allowed to enter a disaster area to offer life saving services?

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,...24,00.html#4524

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.


Wow, Tybee.....we've come full circle!

marrigotti
09-07-2005, 07:51 PM
So, it looks like it was State, not federal action, that blocked aid.

bulletgirl2002
09-07-2005, 07:55 PM
I just read over in another forum that Barbara Bush said that since the survivors were already so poor, they are doing pretty well in the Astrodome. Does anyone know if this is true, if she really said that?
Yes she did say that which makes me wonder if she has the beginnings of dementia. She is usually such a gracious person, then again maybe she is just out of touch with reality in her ivory tower...so many are. Or maybe she spoke before she thought....

bulletgirl2002
09-07-2005, 07:58 PM
Me either. And if I were in the City or local gov't as a leader (any of them, not just the Mayor -who is the City's Emergency Operations Planner or ?, by the way, where has he/she been?)...I think those pictures of those 216 +/- buses flooded in that lot, would and should bring me nightmares for many, many years to come. AND THEY HAD DAYS OF ADVANCE WARNING!!! It's not like an earthquake situation. :doh:
Gee, we have a wonderful emergency manager (I am hoping). Don't you guys participate in mock drills. I know we do....and then the results are reported on the news. We have all sorts of scenerios such as what if no electricity to pump the gas etc.

cynder
09-07-2005, 07:59 PM
But WHO does the state Homeland Security Dept REPORT TO???
Because if they are under the control of the FEDERAL HOMELAND SECURITY DEPT then it wasn't exactly the STATE who denied them access.
I know what the Red Cross said, what I am not so sure about is who made this decision. I am also not sure that the Red Cross was willing to go to the Superdome or the Convention Center without benefit of police/military protection.
I am researching now to get the facts on this.

bulletgirl2002
09-07-2005, 08:02 PM
I posted early on that my sister ,who is an expert in disaster relief, said it is up to the city and state officials to provide first line defense for it's citizens,with a goal of 72 hours. Set up it's citizens with pre-planning to hold down the fort til the big guns arrive. In this case, it just seems they ran for cover leaving evryne to wait for FEMA and/or fend for themselves. Worst of it being, the local govt knew exactly what would happen to these people!
The argument that the president should have overidden that mayor is an interesting one. Interesting, because they only way the President will do that is based on information he is given. That information is supplied to him by the GOVERNOR!
The thing is, I can't expect GW to know about my neighborhood. I DO expect my mayor and my governor to know and if Thurmond Dam is about to break and I have forewarning, my tail is outta here and the mayor and governor needs to be evacuating everyone that can't take care of themselves.

JBean
09-07-2005, 08:03 PM
The thing is, I can't expect GW to know about my neighborhood. I DO expect my mayor and my governor to know and if Thurmond Dam is about to break and I have forewarning, my tail is outta here and the mayor and governor needs to be evacuating everyone that can't take care of themselves.exactly

less0305
09-07-2005, 08:05 PM
But WHO does the state Homeland Security Dept REPORT TO???
Because if they are under the control of the FEDERAL HOMELAND SECURITY DEPT then it wasn't exactly the STATE who denied them access.
I know what the Red Cross said, what I am not so sure about is who made this decision. I am also not sure that the Red Cross was willing to go to the Superdome or the Convention Center without benefit of police/military protection.
I am researching now to get the facts on this.

Cynder, I'm not entirely sure on this, but I think each state appoints a Homeland Security commission (for lack of a better word) much like mental health or welfare or whatever and it's run by each state. I'd have to do more research on that tho. I am under the impression (and I may be wrong) that it's sort of like that and the head of each state's homeland security team reports to the governor or his/her designee. That's a good thing to research and I love to research, so I'll attempt to do a little looking around - while I'm keeping up with reading the posts.

kgeaux
09-07-2005, 08:06 PM
This fact is why I started the original "I am so angry" thread.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28612

My 1st post on it was the link to the Red Cross Page saying exactly that.

am so angry that Homeland Security blocked the Red Cross from feeding people, delivering medicine and food to Hospitals and setting up any form of relief within New Orleans to sustain life untill evacuations could be organized. Since when is the Red Cross not allowed to enter a disaster area to offer life saving services?

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,...24,00.html#4524

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

Tybee, how did I miss that? I must've been in a daze when I read your link. Looks like I am a few days late with the news, huh? I have heard this bandied about town, but I wasn't sure if it was accurate info or not--then the Red Cross Spokeperson confirms it. I cannot believe this......



editing to add: Can anyone confirm if State Homeland Security answers to the governor? Did they do this under her orders? (that is certainly what has been said here in Lafayette)

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 08:08 PM
On Fox, Lt. Cowan (Retired)....

Says he's been told the Guard is under a GAG order in reference to the timeline of the Guard's deployment, etc.

Hasn't said yet WHO has issued the gag order, but OMG. Like this info won't come out????

Also, Judge Napolitano (I don't like him, usually, IMO)...just said neither the Feds nor the State can direct evacuation of you out of your own house. They can demand you get out of public areas such as streets, parking lots, commercial areas.

Waiting to hear more...

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 08:11 PM
Yes she did say that which makes me wonder if she has the beginnings of dementia. She is usually such a gracious person, then again maybe she is just out of touch with reality in her ivory tower...so many are. Or maybe she spoke before she thought....
It could be both, her age and the lack of thought before speaking as she has always been so out-spoken which so many thought refreshing way back.

I had hoped she meant her comments in a positive way as I've heard reporters there saying it over and over that many inside were living better than they were before being brought there.

kgeaux
09-07-2005, 08:11 PM
On Fox, Lt. Cowan (Retired)....

Says he's been told the Guard is under a GAG order in reference to the timeline of the Guard's deployment, etc.

Hasn't said yet WHO has issued the gag order, but OMG. Like this info won't come out????

Waiting to hear more...

Good gravy! No way to cover something like this up!! Just when I think I've heard the worst....

JBean
09-07-2005, 08:13 PM
Cynder, I'm not entirely sure on this, but I think each state appoints a Homeland Security commission (for lack of a better word) much like mental health or welfare or whatever and it's run by each state. I'd have to do more research on that tho. I am under the impression (and I may be wrong) that it's sort of like that and the head of each state's homeland security team reports to the governor or his/her designee. That's a good thing to research and I love to research, so I'll attempt to do a little looking around - while I'm keeping up with reading the posts.this is called the "State name" Emergency Management

less0305
09-07-2005, 08:13 PM
It could be both, her age and the lack of thought before speaking as she has always been so out-spoken which so many thought refreshing way back.

I had hoped she meant her comments in a positive way as I've heard reporters there saying it over and over that many inside were living better than they were before being brought there.

There was a pretty good discussion on this topic in that "Would this have happened anywhere other than N.O." or whatever it's called.

Liz
09-07-2005, 08:17 PM
It was the Chairman of the Red Cross. I can't remember the title...same thing that Liddy Dole was at one time, I think. Anyway, she said they were positioned and ready to go, but the State officials wouldn't let them go in because it would encourage people to stay. I heard it too.


Last night I herd the exact same thing (the reason Tybee started this thread) and it came directly from the mouth of the President of the Red Cross, Marty Evans.

To clarify, it was the "State" Homeland Security that prevented Red Cross from going in in NO.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 08:20 PM
Tybee, how did I miss that? I must've been in a daze when I read your link. Looks like I am a few days late with the news, huh? I have heard this bandied about town, but I wasn't sure if it was accurate info or not--then the Red Cross Spokeperson confirms it. I cannot believe this......



editing to add: Can anyone confirm if State Homeland Security answers to the governor? Did they do this under her orders? (that is certainly what has been said here in Lafayette)

Kgeaux, I'm very happy you mentioned it again, because I've either forgotten or missed the part about it being the STATE Homeland Security not allowing them in... eagerly waiting to hear what y'all are going to find out about who the State Homeland Security reports to....

As each passing day goes by, more and more stuff sure is coming out....

Mabel
09-07-2005, 08:24 PM
Yes she did say that which makes me wonder if she has the beginnings of dementia. She is usually such a gracious person, then again maybe she is just out of touch with reality in her ivory tower...so many are. Or maybe she spoke before she thought....




In a segment at the top of the show on the surge of
evacuees to the Texas city, Barbara Bush said: "Almost
everyone I’ve talked to says we're going to move to
Houston."

Then she added: "What I’m hearing which is sort of
scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is
so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them." http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054719

Liz
09-07-2005, 08:26 PM
Kgeaux, I'm very happy you mentioned it again, because I've either forgotten or missed the part about it being the STATE Homeland Security not allowing them in... eagerly waiting to hear what y'all are going to find out about who the State Homeland Security reports to....

As each passing day goes by, more and more stuff sure is coming out....

DeputyDawg, I think a lot of people missed that "state" part. It was quite clear in Tybee's post though. But, it was something easy to miss, too.

bulletgirl2002
09-07-2005, 08:28 PM
You rock Cynder.
I love u Cynder,,,,,but I respectifully disagree..how are the turtles....

less0305
09-07-2005, 08:29 PM
But WHO does the state Homeland Security Dept REPORT TO???
Because if they are under the control of the FEDERAL HOMELAND SECURITY DEPT then it wasn't exactly the STATE who denied them access.
I know what the Red Cross said, what I am not so sure about is who made this decision. I am also not sure that the Red Cross was willing to go to the Superdome or the Convention Center without benefit of police/military protection.
I am researching now to get the facts on this.

I think I found it for Louisiana:
http://www.loep.state.la.us/homeland/default.htm

State Response

The Louisiana Senate and House of Representative’s Select Committees on Louisiana Homeland Security were created to provide legislative leadership and assistance in the coordination of state efforts to secure the state of Louisiana from terrorist threats and attacks. These committees, together with the Governor’s Office, are committed and privileged to serve the citizens of this great state in this vital task of assuring a safe and secure environment. Read More...

Terrorism link for "read more":
http://www.loep.state.la.us/homeland/hls-main-StateResp.htm

State Readiness

Here citizen's can find related links to State departments, agencies, and programs, in their efforts at preventing and responding to threats and potential threats that confront this state, including natural disasters. Read More...

After following the "Read More" link you get here:
http://www.loep.state.la.us/homeland/hls-main-StateReady.htm

And then you can click on Homeland Security State Contact
MG Bennett C. Landreneau
Adjutant General and Director of the Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness

225-925-7500
Fax: 225-925-7501
http://www.loep.state.la.us/homeland

Liz
09-07-2005, 08:34 PM
I'm pretty sure that the state level of emergency management comes under the governor of each state. I recall Jeb Bush wearing those FEMA logo shirts after FL hurricanes hit, and I'm pretty sure that stands for Florida Emergency Management Agency.

I heard on a news report last night someone in the state of Mississippi alluding to FEMA and then they added "and MEMA, which is the state's agency".

less0305
09-07-2005, 08:36 PM
The Adjutant General reports to the Governor.

I wonder if the Louisiana AG feels as strongly as the Connecticutt AG about not taking control from the Governor cuz this is what he said at a congressional hearing:

MAJOR GENERAL WILLIAM A. CUGNO
ADJUTANT GENERAL, CONNECTICUT
BEFORE
THE HOUSE GOVERNMENT REFORM
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
NATIONAL SECURITY, VETERANS AFFAIRS,
AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
FIRST SESSION, 107TH CONGRESS

ON
COMBATING TERRORISM:
FEDERAL RESPONSE TO A BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS ATTACK
JULY 23, 2001

I can’t emphasize enough the realities of what occurs in a state during emergencies. I know those who
advocate a strong federal role often underestimate these realities. The Governor has the ultimate
responsibility to restore normalcy to his or her citizens and should to the greatest extent resist
relinquishing control. Dark-Winter proponents of a strong federal role clearly demonstrated a lack of
understanding of statehood and political realities. Federal agencies must understand that the victims of
Dark Winter, and the victims of any state emergency for that matter, trust their local and state
governments for relief -- relief delivered by trusted neighbors, first responders and state Guardsmen -- as
they have in past emergencies. When a strong state chain of command and control is maintained and
federal assets are integrated as needed, unnecessary federalization of the National Guard is avoided. The
Governor maintains control.

Federalizing the National Guard would raise legal issues in respect to the Dark-Winter operation. The
ability of the federal government to use the National Guard is limited by the Militia Clause of the
Constitution Clause.[1] The Militia Clause provides for the calling forth of the Militia to execute the
Laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions. Congress empowered the President, as
the Commander in Chief, to call forth the Militia.[2] The law, however, constrains the President in the
federal use of the National Guard, limiting the use to when the President is unable to execute the federal
law with regular forces.[3]
The Posse Comitatus Act prohibits the use of any part of the Army, Air Force, Navy, or Marines,
including their reserve components, as a posse comitatus (“armed force”) or otherwise to execute the
laws, except as authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress. Congress has created a number of
statutory exceptions to the Posse Comitatus Act, which fall into four major categories: (1) insurrections
and civil disturbances, [4] (2) counterdrug operations, [5] (3) disaster relief, [6] (4) counter-terrorism and
weapons of mass destruction.[7] It is important to note that the legal authority to use federal forces in the
context of a Dark-Winter operation does exist. Federal officials, however, would first be required to
jointly make numerous determinations before using federal soldiers.[8]

Federalization would effectively restructure the chain of command. While under state
control, the chain of command remains exclusively with the state, ends with the Governor, and The
Adjutant General, regardless of service component, is the commander of the state’s entire Army and Air
National Guard. Federalization would replace the Governor, The Adjutant General and the State Area
Command with a federal Army chain of command. This changing of command would create additional
logistics and communications problems, as well as consume valuable time.

The major effect of federalizing is the removal of state control. State control is vital to operations within
a state. The vitality arises from the trust, a unique aspect of mission efficiency, developed between state
officials through their regular governmental functions, activities and exercises. Moreover, the Governor
has more flexibility in the use of National Guard forces in emergency situations than federal
commanders, who are constrained by federal law while conducting military/civil operations within the
United States.

When dealing with and training for domestic emergencies a few points must be kept in mind.
· The Governor is in charge.
· We must channel adequate federal resources to our state and local first responders.
· State agencies possess unique skills and assets, which must be included the response plans.
· Future exercises, to be credible, should always include the National Guard, State and municipal
agencies.


I added the emphasis of bold and underline.

tybee204
09-07-2005, 08:38 PM
The DHS Transition


What is the Mission of the New Department of Homeland Security?

The many men and women who daily protect our borders and secure our country are committed to the safety of our homeland. The new Department will help them do their jobs better with increased communication, coordination and resources. Specifically, the new Department of Homeland Security (DHS) will have three primary missions:

Prevent terrorist attacks within the United States,
Reduce America's vulnerability to terrorism, and
Minimize the damage from potential attacks and natural disasters.


In order to accomplish these three goals the new Department will focus on creating the new capabilities discussed in the July 2002 National Strategy for Homeland Security. The Strategy points out that today no one single government agency has homeland security as its primary mission. In fact, responsibilities for homeland security are dispersed among more than 100 different government organizations. America needs a single, unified homeland security structure that will improve protection against today's threats and be flexible enough to help meet the unknown threats of the future.

The new Department of Homeland Security, the most significant transformation of the U.S. government in over a half-century, will transform and realign the current confusing patchwork of government activities into a single department. DHS will give state and local officials one primary contact instead of many, an important advantage when it comes to matters related to training, equipment, planning, exercises and other critical homeland security needs. It will manage federal grant programs for enhancing the preparedness of firefighters, police, and emergency medical personnel. DHS will also set standards for state and local preparedness activities and equipment.

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 08:40 PM
well it's certainly becoming more and more evident that those people elected into state and local offices do not read their own state constitutions or know their emergency policies and procedures.

tybee204
09-07-2005, 08:44 PM
Homeland Security leverages resources within federal, state, and local governments, coordinating the transition of multiple agencies and programs into a single, integrated agency focused on protecting the American people and their homeland. More than 87,000 different governmental jurisdictions at the federal, state, and local level have homeland security responsibilities. The comprehensive national strategy seeks to develop a complementary system connecting all levels of government without duplicating effort. Homeland Security is truly a “national mission”.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=13

PrayersForMaura
09-07-2005, 08:46 PM
The DHS Transition


What is the Mission of the New Department of Homeland Security?

The many men and women who daily protect our borders and secure our country are committed to the safety of our homeland. The new Department will help them do their jobs better with increased communication, coordination and resources. Specifically, the new Department of Homeland Security (DHS) will have three primary missions:

Prevent terrorist attacks within the United States,
Reduce America's vulnerability to terrorism, and
Minimize the damage from potential attacks and natural disasters.


In order to accomplish these three goals the new Department will focus on creating the new capabilities discussed in the July 2002 National Strategy for Homeland Security. The Strategy points out that today no one single government agency has homeland security as its primary mission. In fact, responsibilities for homeland security are dispersed among more than 100 different government organizations. America needs a single, unified homeland security structure that will improve protection against today's threats and be flexible enough to help meet the unknown threats of the future.

The new Department of Homeland Security, the most significant transformation of the U.S. government in over a half-century, will transform and realign the current confusing patchwork of government activities into a single department. DHS will give state and local officials one primary contact instead of many, an important advantage when it comes to matters related to training, equipment, planning, exercises and other critical homeland security needs. It will manage federal grant programs for enhancing the preparedness of firefighters, police, and emergency medical personnel. DHS will also set standards for state and local preparedness activities and equipment.this is very informative but i wouldn't be surprised if the LA. state department of homeland security didn't even contact the one primary contact person....

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 08:46 PM
There was a pretty good discussion on this topic in that "Would this have happened anywhere other than N.O." or whatever it's called.
Thank you less, yes I know it was discussed elsewhere......I was just responding to a fellow poster!

Dara
09-07-2005, 08:46 PM
Makes you wonder if anyone knows at what point we are in the transition.

Is Terry Ebbert the state homeland director? I've been looking for information on him (well, weeding through a lot of info about). I remember him irate about FEMA not being there. I'm looking for some reference to him and the Red Cross, but I can't find it.

less0305
09-07-2005, 08:47 PM
Thank you less, yes I know it was discussed elsewhere......I was just responding to a fellow poster!

Oh, just didn't know if you'd seen it. Sorry.

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 08:59 PM
Makes you wonder if anyone knows at what point we are in the transition.

Is Terry Ebbert the state homeland director? I've been looking for information on him (well, weeding through a lot of info about). I remember him irate about FEMA not being there. I'm looking for some reference to him and the Red Cross, but I can't find it.
What happened to Tom Ridge?:waitasec:

Liz
09-07-2005, 09:06 PM
What happened to Tom Ridge?:waitasec:


I think you haven't been following the news? He's LONG gone!

Linda7NJ
09-07-2005, 09:08 PM
I think you haven't been following the news? He's LONG gone!
Nope, I had no idea! What happened to him?

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 09:14 PM
Oh, just didn't know if you'd seen it. Sorry.
Oh heck, don't be sorry, it was sweet of you to mention the other thread.

Dara
09-07-2005, 09:15 PM
What happened to Tom Ridge?:waitasec:
Chertoff replaced him. Ebbert is with LA.

Liz
09-07-2005, 09:17 PM
Nope, I had no idea! What happened to him?


He resigned as chief of the Federal Dept of Homeland Security, almost a year ago.

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 09:22 PM
Nope, I had no idea! What happened to him?Ridge steps down as Homeland Security chief

Former Pennsylvania governor was first to oversee department

Thursday, December 2, 2004 Posted: 10:50 AM EST (1550 GMT)



CNN) -- Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge resigned Tuesday, but he will remain in the post until February 1 unless a successor is confirmed sooner.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/30/ridge/ (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/30/ridge/)

TexMex
09-07-2005, 09:24 PM
This is too much


http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5280340-117540,00.html

Storm water for sale on eBay

David Teather in New York
Thursday September 8, 2005

Guardian

The chance to make a quick buck from Hurricane Katrina has not escaped some, with items on eBay including a "rain-soaked newspaper" delivered on the day the storm hit the American south, jars of rainwater and a message in a bottle that supposedly led to the rescue of several families.
Among other items on sale on eBay yesterday was a scribbling that a Texan "artist" claims he drew after waking from a dream 10 days before the storm, which uncannily resembles satellite pictures of Katrina. One man, claiming to be a survivor of the catastrophe, is offering the rights to his story, starting at $12,500 (£6,800).

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 09:36 PM
This is too much


http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5280340-117540,00.html

Storm water for sale on eBay

David Teather in New York
Thursday September 8, 2005

Guardian

The chance to make a quick buck from Hurricane Katrina has not escaped some, with items on eBay including a "rain-soaked newspaper" delivered on the day the storm hit the American south, jars of rainwater and a message in a bottle that supposedly led to the rescue of several families.
Among other items on sale on eBay yesterday was a scribbling that a Texan "artist" claims he drew after waking from a dream 10 days before the storm, which uncannily resembles satellite pictures of Katrina. One man, claiming to be a survivor of the catastrophe, is offering the rights to his story, starting at $12,500 (£6,800).Disgusting, didn't this type of crap go on eBay after 9/11 also?

Dara
09-07-2005, 09:48 PM
Disgusting, didn't this type of crap go on eBay after 9/11 also?
I'm pretty sure it did, but I think if you report it eBay pulls the auction.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 09:48 PM
Gee, we have a wonderful emergency manager (I am hoping). Don't you guys participate in mock drills. I know we do....and then the results are reported on the news. We have all sorts of scenerios such as what if no electricity to pump the gas etc.

Our agency does all kinds of mock drills, yes. The Wednesday before Katrina, we had a District Emergency Mgmt drill - "issues" (can't say what) at a nuclear plant. We have that specific one about every 6 months. But this has gotten me thinking (a lot)...and since I've been there, we haven't had a tornado drill, that I'm aware of, and we're in tornado alley! Of course, the CITY here would be in charge of coordinating shelters, food, etc. And I can't tell you where the shelters are! :confused: (I may go venturing into the City/County websites to see what I can find.) I know there was a "Hurricane Conference" held in Corpus Christi last April, wonder if anyone from LA attended. We also have other coordinated disaster drills periodically. All local agencies, etc. And yes, it's always in the news, before and after the actual events.

DD ...>>>> who needs to go find her City's disaster plan, rather than focusing on her work's plan.

marrigotti
09-07-2005, 11:33 PM
Yep. The Red Cross was blocked from giving relief by the State of Louisiana.

http://hughhewitt.com/archives/2005/09/04-week/index.php#a000211

Sally
09-07-2005, 11:37 PM
This is too much


http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5280340-117540,00.html

Storm water for sale on eBay

David Teather in New York
Thursday September 8, 2005

Guardian

The chance to make a quick buck from Hurricane Katrina has not escaped some, with items on eBay including a "rain-soaked newspaper" delivered on the day the storm hit the American south, jars of rainwater and a message in a bottle that supposedly led to the rescue of several families.
Among other items on sale on eBay yesterday was a scribbling that a Texan "artist" claims he drew after waking from a dream 10 days before the storm, which uncannily resembles satellite pictures of Katrina. One man, claiming to be a survivor of the catastrophe, is offering the rights to his story, starting at $12,500 (£6,800).

ROFL...people crack me up.

Tom'sGirl
09-07-2005, 11:51 PM
Our agency does all kinds of mock drills, yes. The Wednesday before Katrina, we had a District Emergency Mgmt drill - "issues" (can't say what) at a nuclear plant. We have that specific one about every 6 months. But this has gotten me thinking (a lot)...and since I've been there, we haven't had a tornado drill, that I'm aware of, and we're in tornado alley! Of course, the CITY here would be in charge of coordinating shelters, food, etc. And I can't tell you where the shelters are! :confused: (I may go venturing into the City/County websites to see what I can find.) I know there was a "Hurricane Conference" held in Corpus Christi last April, wonder if anyone from LA attended. We also have other coordinated disaster drills periodically. All local agencies, etc. And yes, it's always in the news, before and after the actual events.

DD ...>>>> who needs to go find her City's disaster plan, rather than focusing on her work's plan.
Same goes here in my area/s, San Diego, Riverside, San Bernardino & Orange Counties all seem to have disaster drills, BUT I've never learned where the shelters were to house the millions!

My suburb has only about 90,000 and I doubt that our Mayor would have a clue what to do. I have my ideas of where I'd get to, but then I wouldn't be under water like NO, it would rather more than likely be an earthquake.

cynder
09-07-2005, 11:52 PM
There were multiple reasons why the Red Cross did not enter New Orleans - among them were security and safety concerns along with not encouraging people to stay in New Orleans.
Here is the WHOLE statement directly from the Red Cross Site


"Disaster FAQs
Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?
Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?

Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

The Red Cross has been meeting the needs of thousands of New Orleans residents in some 90 shelters throughout the state of Louisiana and elsewhere since before landfall. All told, the Red Cross is today operating 149 shelters for almost 93,000 residents.

The Red Cross shares the nation’s anguish over the worsening situation inside the city. We will continue to work under the direction of the military, state and local authorities and to focus all our efforts on our lifesaving mission of feeding and sheltering.

The Red Cross does not conduct search and rescue operations. We are an organization of civilian volunteers and cannot get relief aid into any location until the local authorities say it is safe and provide us with security and access.

The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.

As the remaining people are evacuated from New Orleans, the most appropriate role for the Red Cross is to provide a safe place for people to stay and to see that their emergency needs are met. We are fully staffed and equipped to handle these individuals once they are evacuated.
http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html#4524

KrazyKollector
09-07-2005, 11:57 PM
These citizens didn't move in the night before the hurricane. They have been there for years.
This should have all been spelled out in the city/state disaster evacuation plan. If the governor and the mayor did not know what to do in case of emergncy they should have FOUND out and asked for help before a hurricane ever hit. Years before it hit. We even knew what the possibilties for devastation were.It is their job to support it's citizens for 72 hours before FEMA ever arrives. If they did not have the resources it was their responsibilty to get them.I think the more that comes out, the more it's going to show that the only people failing the people of NO were the people they elected locally and state.
I just love it whenever anyone brings up the STATE and LOCAL disaster plan, including the school buses, a few liberals twist it into a way to make the Gov and mayor look less like idiots. Doesn't work, they still look like idiots.
Heck, they could have moved the buses to high grounds and couldn't even do that.
Well, the state and local failures run so deep, no wonder they feel the need to try and shift blame. They are responsible, all by themselves, for the death of hundreds at the very least.

I also heard this today, which could explain why it's been politicized so badly:
"Democrats lost 9/11 to Bush. They don't plan to lose two disasters to him."
Not sure if it's true or not but I keep hearing things that just are ludicrious (like Pelosi's "conversation" with the President). I keep waiting for Howard Dean to give out another war whoop.

Warning: Conservative web site ahead.


1999 Hurricane Swamped Clinton's FEMA Democrats led by Sen. Hillary Clinton are blaming the Federal Emergency Management Agency for failing to respond adequately to the Hurricane Katrina disaster.

But FEMA didn't do much better under much less taxing conditions, when the floods that followed Hurricane Floyd left tens of thousands stranded up and down the Eastern seaboard, wondering what happened to federal rescuers.

Story continues:http://cl.e.newsmax.com/?ffcc17-fe611771756c057e7c11-fe1f15797d6c017d751d78-ff2c1d70746d

I guess that no matter what political party you are, you best be set to care for yourself and have your local people able to deal with all of the fallout for at least 72 hours. Unless God would become President. He might be able to manage it all a bit better. :rolleyes:

Edited to fix what was said in the preceeding pages that I didn't know about.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-07-2005, 11:57 PM
Yep. The Red Cross was blocked from giving relief by the State of Louisiana.

http://hughhewitt.com/archives/2005/09/04-week/index.php#a000211

Hi Marrigotti :dance:

Back on Wednesday, 8/31, I posted something from an LE internal memo we had, which stated the STATE of LA would NOT be allowing any volunteer organizations, etc. trying to get into the state to provide assistance, unless they were approved through the State's Operations Center. Our agency was trying to get the word out, because so many people/groups were indeed trying to go and help.

I am shocked at this. I never imagined the RedCross would be turned away. Gee, I guess the RedCross had to call the State OC 1-800 number as well and wait for approval to cross the state lines. :doh:

When the story first broke, I figured it was due to the safety of the volunteers going in. But now, it's making more sense that the State OC was blocking ALL at the state lines, not just at the dangerous areas in NO.

Thanks for the info.

JBean
09-08-2005, 12:02 AM
JBean,
I heard today that LA has their own FEMA type disaster response group? Could you please ask your sister?
I think the more that comes out, the more it's going to show that the only people failing the people of NO were the people they elected locally and state.


I guess that no matter what political party you are, you best be set to care for yourself and have your local people able to deal with all of the fallout for at least 72 hours. Unless God would become President. He might be able to manage it all a bit better. :rolleyes:All states have an emergency management agency;
Here is LA http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 12:20 AM
Same goes here in my area/s, San Diego, Riverside, San Bernardino & Orange Counties all seem to have disaster drills, BUT I've never learned where the shelters were to house the millions!

My suburb has only about 90,000 and I doubt that our Mayor would have a clue what to do. I have my ideas of where I'd get to, but then I wouldn't be under water like NO, it would rather more than likely be an earthquake.

Re shelters, I'm glad it wasn't just me!

I've now gone to our City website, and it was very limited in info. But it explained the type of gov't we have, and explained the Mayor's role and the City Manager's role. It did state that the Mayor is responsible for coordinating emergency aid and resources in the cases of emergency. There was really only one other blurb about emergencies, and it did appear that the local agencies would be considered the first responders. Makes sense.

The County's website offered nothing useful about emergency plans, etc.

Then went to the State's website. A lot of information, but not the actual plan. A lot of links, and a lot had to do with FEMA. But it made it quite clear that the local agencies and the State are primarily responsible for emergency situations. Very clear.

JBean
09-08-2005, 12:30 AM
Same goes here in my area/s, San Diego, Riverside, San Bernardino & Orange Counties all seem to have disaster drills, BUT I've never learned where the shelters were to house the millions!

My suburb has only about 90,000 and I doubt that our Mayor would have a clue what to do. I have my ideas of where I'd get to, but then I wouldn't be under water like NO, it would rather more than likely be an earthquake.Tom's girl we have work to do. From what I am learning we are not in much better shape in terms of a good local plan. :eek:


Your city's Emergency Preparedness Coordinator
Orange County Sheriff
Emergency Management Division
(714) 628-7055
American Red Cross
Orange County Chapter
(714) 835-5381

State of California
Governor’s Office of Emergency Services
(818) 304-8383

County of Orange Health Care Agency
Emergency Medical Services
Serving the emergency services healthcare community of Orange County
(714) 834-3500

Details
09-08-2005, 12:33 AM
I don't know how much we need the shelters - San Diego isn't subject to the kind of disaster that you can plan for. We get the earthquakes. And shelter is whatever buildings didn't fall down. We don't need a place where the city can shelter from a hurricane or tornado. And there's plenty of high ground for any flood.

Dara
09-08-2005, 12:34 AM
I'm not saying I don't believe this, but I'm going to see what sources say, as well as the one posted, which is a conservative news source. The more we know, the more complete the picture. I'd love a timeline. Because I know Ebbert (state HS guy) expressed anger that FEMA wasn't there, and said they needed help. So, it sounds like they wanted to let in help. So, why not the Red Cross? I want a complete timeline of this thing and all the decisions made (yeah, I also want world peace; I dream big).

lauriej
09-08-2005, 12:36 AM
Yes she did say that which makes me wonder if she has the beginnings of dementia. She is usually such a gracious person, then again maybe she is just out of touch with reality in her ivory tower...so many are. Or maybe she spoke before she thought....
...i'm still very shocked to hear that she said such a thing:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054719

In a segment at the top of the show on the surge of
evacuees to the Texas city, Barbara Bush said: "Almost
everyone I’ve talked to says we're going to move to
Houston."

Then she added: "What I’m hearing which is sort of
scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is
so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."

.........although, i don't think that the 'very very rich' can ever have a grip on the very very poor........even when trying to do so politically...........they just don't get it.........

KrazyKollector
09-08-2005, 12:37 AM
All states have an emergency management agency;
Here is LA http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/Thanks JBean. :) I did finally figure it out. Just took me a while!
:doh: on me. I did "fix" my post above. LOL!

JBean
09-08-2005, 12:41 AM
...i'm still very shocked to hear that she said such a thing:
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054719

In a segment at the top of the show on the surge of
evacuees to the Texas city, Barbara Bush said: "Almost
everyone I’ve talked to says we're going to move to
Houston."

Then she added: "What I’m hearing which is sort of
scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is
so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."

.........although, i don't think that the 'very very rich' can ever have a grip on the very very poor........even when trying to do so politically...........they just don't get it.........I don't think that is shocking?Iwhat am I missing?

JBean
09-08-2005, 12:43 AM
Thanks JBean. :) I did finally figure it out. Just took me a while!
:doh: on me. I did "fix" my post above. LOL!hey it's some good reading, too bad no one read it earlier.
cya KK

Tom'sGirl
09-08-2005, 12:48 AM
I don't know how much we need the shelters - San Diego isn't subject to the kind of disaster that you can plan for. We get the earthquakes. And shelter is whatever buildings didn't fall down. We don't need a place where the city can shelter from a hurricane or tornado. And there's plenty of high ground for any flood.
I said in my post: I have my ideas of where I'd get to, but then I wouldn't be under water like NO, it would rather more than likely be an earthquake.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 12:52 AM
I'm not saying I don't believe this, but I'm going to see what sources say, as well as the one posted, which is a conservative news source. The more we know, the more complete the picture. I'd love a timeline. Because I know Ebbert (state HS guy) expressed anger that FEMA wasn't there, and said they needed help. So, it sounds like they wanted to let in help. So, why not the Red Cross? I want a complete timeline of this thing and all the decisions made (yeah, I also want world peace; I dream big).

Did you see my post earlier in the evening that a retired LT from the National Guard sayd (on Fox) that there is a gag order as to the timeline on when the Guard was asked for assistance? WTF or WTH, take your pick. No mention of WHO exactly pushed for a gag order. But, I'd say someone who has an awful lot to hide.

And not knowing anything yet about Ebbert, the State HS guy, I don't know why he expressed anger at FEMA. Maybe the same reason Nagin and Blanco did in those first few days, and then it's appearing their performance/planning and actual implementation was dismal (understatement)? Maybe he's just as guilty? I have no idea, just my thought. Maybe his anger, per se, was desperation because it was, indeed, falling apart around him, and he didn't know how to get out of it either.

Yes, I'm starting to get pretty good at this finger-pointing, I guess, haha. But I'm not completely, as each new day is bringing more light to multiple issues. My fingers are kinda pointing in different directions as more info comes out (And actually, I feel kinda bad, too...on something this big, I'm not sure how it could go totally smoothly. And I know none of them don't care, I'm sure they're truly, truly heartbroken about what has happened. I couldn't have done any better, but I also wasn't elected to do so.)

JBean
09-08-2005, 12:53 AM
I said in my post: I have my ideas of where I'd get to, but then I wouldn't be under water like NO, it would rather more than likely be an earthquake.Yes, but if the quake destroyed our homes or the integrity of them we would need shelters.
Plus we've been warned about "the big one" for as long as Louisiana has been warned about their "big one" and we wouldn't get ANY forewarning. think about it.

SieSie
09-08-2005, 12:55 AM
I was watching Fox News again tonight around 7:30 p.m. (not sure which show, sorry) and Shepard Smith said that over 30 nursing home residents were "abandoned and left to die in their beds". I did a google search and found this little tidbit from the Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,16506631%255E663,00.html):

Officials prepared the public for a ghastly body count as the stories of some elderly victims who died forgotten in nursing homes began to be told.

This is unimaginable to me. If the city had a "mandatory evacuation" ahead of time, then why didn't they get these people out while they had time? Yes, they're elderly and might be feeble or in wheelchairs, but you can carry them out one at a time if you have to - you don't just abandon them and let them die. This is unbelievable.

ETA:
I found this, also:

And consider Bay High School in Bay St. Louis, Miss. It was an unofficial shelter turned cesspool, the sight of which Gary Turner, Trudy Roberts and Felix Ruiz said should be considered a crime.

The three strangers became a rescue team of sorts when they fled to the high school themselves and found people in their 70s, 80s and 90s wallowing in their own waste on the auditorium floors. They had been brought to the school and abandoned, most unable to move without help.


The story was even grimmer just outside New Orleans. Thirty people died at a flooded nursing home in Chalmette, and state Rep. Nita Hutter said the staff left the elderly residents behind in their beds.
More at link to Seattle Post Intelligencer (http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Katrina%20Elderly%20HK4)

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 12:58 AM
I was watching Fox News again tonight around 7:30 p.m. (not sure which show, sorry) and Shepard Smith said that over 30 nursing home residents were "abandoned and left to die in their beds". I did a google search and found this little tidbit from the Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,16506631%255E663,00.html):


This is unimaginable to me. If the city had a "mandatory evacuation" ahead of time, then why didn't they get these people out while they had time? Yes, they're elderly and might be feeble or in wheelchairs, but you can carry them out one at a time if you have to - you don't just abandon them and let them die. This is unbelievable.

I know the State of Texas has special sections of their emergency plans that deal directly with those that need additional assistance (i.e., medical facilities, elderly, poor, etc.) But, a plan is only as good as the implementations, and well, we just saw how LA's plan for evacuation went....

Tom'sGirl
09-08-2005, 01:01 AM
Yes, but if the quake destroyed our homes or the integrity of them we would need shelters.
Plus we've been warned about "the big one" for as long as Louisiana has been warned about their "big one" and we wouldn't get ANY forewarning. think about it.Oh, I completely agree with you JB........those of us who have lived out here all of our lives know that eventually the big one will come.

My mom was a little girl (actually 13) during the Long Beach earthquake living in a little crappy house in a poor section of L.A. that came tumbling down after the all ran out. They stayed in tents, and even went to school in tents for a while.

Look how many needed shelters after the terrible fires in San Bernardino & San Diego Counties.

Tom'sGirl
09-08-2005, 01:04 AM
I know the State of Texas has special sections of their emergency plans that deal directly with those that need additional assistance (i.e., medical facilities, elderly, poor, etc.) But, a plan is only as good as the implementations, and well, we just saw how LA's plan for evacuation went....
BINGO !

JBean
09-08-2005, 01:05 AM
Oh, I completely agree with you JB........those of us who have lived out here all of our lives know that eventually the big one will come.

My mom was a little girl during the Long Beach earthquake living in a little crappy house in a poor section of L.A. that came tumbling down after the all ran out. They stayed in tents, and even went to school in tents for a while.

Look how many needed shelters after the terrible fires in San Bernardino & San Diego Counties.Two of my sons were in college in SD during the wildfires. i went and stayed down there with them lol! Wanted to make sure they weren't playing poker when they should be evacuating!:D

JBean
09-08-2005, 01:07 AM
I know the State of Texas has special sections of their emergency plans that deal directly with those that need additional assistance (i.e., medical facilities, elderly, poor, etc.) But, a plan is only as good as the implementations, and well, we just saw how LA's plan for evacuation went....My sister said she just gave a whole seminar to professionals on getting prepared for people with special needs during a disaster. You are right on about the implementation

Tom'sGirl
09-08-2005, 01:12 AM
Two of my sons were in college in SD during the wildfires. i went and stayed down there with them lol! Wanted to make sure they weren't playing poker when they should be evacuating!:DThat's funny, my brother was coming to see our mom from Carlsbad and I told him we could hardly breathe out here from the San Bernardino fires and to stay home.

Well, he started out anyway (probably thought I was BS'n him) and got turned back as the fires started in the Temecuala area of Riverside County and the freeway was closed. Then San Diego County started, what a nightmare it all was, kind of like a bad dream.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 01:14 AM
My sister said she just gave a whole seminar to professionals on getting prepared for people with special needs during a disaster. You are right on about the implementation

And just for the record, the STATE has the plan to evacuate them, not FEMA or the feds, in case anyone missed that.... ;)

JBean
09-08-2005, 01:15 AM
And just for the record, the STATE has the plan to evacuate them, not FEMA or the feds, in case anyone missed that.... ;)I think people are finally hearing us DD!

JBean
09-08-2005, 01:18 AM
That's funny, my brother was coming to see our mom from Carlsbad and I told him we could hardly breathe out here from the San Bernardino fires and to stay home.

Well, he started out anyway (probably thought I was BS'n him) and got turned back as the fires started in the Temecuala area of Riverside County and the freeway was closed. Then San Diego County started, what a nightmare it all was, kind of like a bad dream.It was incredible down there. We could not go out and I had to bring them rations. Universities were of course closed down, and it;s the only time I've seen SD as a ghost town. breathing was nasty.
Lots of fires along the freeway as i was driving down there, but I had to get ot them. DH stayed up in OC with the rest.

Dara
09-08-2005, 01:20 AM
Did you see my post earlier in the evening that a retired LT from the National Guard sayd (on Fox) that there is a gag order as to the timeline on when the Guard was asked for assistance? WTF or WTH, take your pick. No mention of WHO exactly pushed for a gag order. But, I'd say someone who has an awful lot to hide. Assuredly, if it's true. I'm going back and looking at something that has been troubling me and started a huge, ugly debate here, but that I think should be discussed. If people (not you) want to try to stop the discussion and start launching personal attacks again, I have to wonder why they're so opposed to even discussing it. I want to know exactly what the President could have done and didn't. I don't have the stomach for it tonight, but I see that even the idea of discussing it meets with some interesting opposition and that makes me think we need to dig in and figure it out.

And not knowing anything yet about Ebbert, the State HS guy, I don't know why he expressed anger at FEMA. Maybe the same reason Nagin and Blanco did in those first few days, and then it's appearing their performance/planning and actual implementation was dismal (understatement)? Maybe he's just as guilty? I have no idea, just my thought. Maybe his anger, per se, was desperation because it was, indeed, falling apart around him, and he didn't know how to get out of it either. That's possible. And it's not something I'm ruling out. But maybe FEMA didn't do their job and all the reports we've been hearing and posted about FEMA not doing their job were right.

Ebbert was criticizing FEMA and saying he needed them Thursday. If he was the one keeping the Red Cross away, and keeping all that other aid away, why wouldn't he just let it in, if it was his call? But Brown didn't say it was Ebbert's call; when asked why people at the convention center didn't get aid, he said he didn't know anyone was in the convention center. As in "I didn't know so I didn't send them." As in "They didn't tell me." If that was what kept aid from the convention center, then it was Brown's job to get them there. It's ridiculous that he didn't know. Everyone knew. But he didn't say State HS didn't send them. He said, "I didn't know they were there."

Brown was quick to blame the state for not keeping him in the loop, but not for mishandling the responsibility of sending in aid. Because, imo, it was his responsibility and not theirs. His call. Maybe. Gotta add a maybe because it's such a mess.

Maybe the state did keep the Red Cross away. Maybe they blocked all aid. But that doesn't seem to match up with what people were saying as we went along. At some point, I think it was FEMA. I want a timeline. And I think it's way too early to get one.

Yes, I'm starting to get pretty good at this finger-pointing, I guess, haha. I figured you would. IMO, asking questions, forming opinions that may change as we get more information, recognizing "blame" is being used, to a large degree, to shame people into not asking questions--I find that to be a reasonable and caring response to this tragedy. Not the only reasonable and caring response, but a valid one.


But I'm not completely, as each new day is bringing more light to multiple issues. My fingers are kinda pointing in different directions as more info comes out (And actually, I feel kinda bad, too...on something this big, I'm not sure how it could go totally smoothly. And I know none of them don't care, I'm sure they're truly, truly heartbroken about what has happened. I couldn't have done any better, but I also wasn't elected to do so.) I agree. I still don't know who is to blame for what, with some exceptions.

It couldn't go smoothly, perhaps. But how close did we get to the possible response in this set of circumstances?

Dara
09-08-2005, 01:22 AM
And just for the record, the STATE has the plan to evacuate them, not FEMA or the feds, in case anyone missed that.... ;)
Do you know what the specifics mean on the request the governor sent? She asked for some support with evacuations. It looks limited to needs after the fact, but I'm not sure.

Details
09-08-2005, 01:28 AM
It was incredible down there. We could not go out and I had to bring them rations. Universities were of course closed down, and it;s the only time I've seen SD as a ghost town. breathing was nasty.
Lots of fires along the freeway as i was driving down there, but I had to get ot them. DH stayed up in OC with the rest.I remember that. The government told us to play hooky from work - the air was just too bad. I had a few refugees staying here - my ex-step-mother, her 3 cats, and my niece (the air was worse at her mom's house). It was unbelievable! The fires moved so fast, and no one was able to track them.

rollerbladr123
09-08-2005, 04:43 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050908/tv_nm/katrina_news_coverage_dc_1;_ylt=AuTdEb_T8ot6quJhMl BexSEbLisB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Hurricane coverage gives voice to outrage By Steve Gorman

Quote 1 LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - American TV reporters and newscasters are covering Hurricane Katrina and problem-plagued relief efforts with a sense of outrage and antagonism many thought had long gone out of fashion in broadcast journalism. In numerous testy exchanges played out over the airwaves during the past week, the news media has challenged public officials who sought to downplay the crisis or defend an initial disaster response widely seen as having been fumbled.

more at link...

rollerbladr123
09-08-2005, 04:57 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050908/ts_alt_afp/usweatherbushfamily_050908075729;_ylt=AoFoVJ9l_m_S vN6T8mZkQgsbLisB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRP UCUlBush family Katrina comments draw scrutiny

Quote 1 In widely reported comments after visting evacuees at a Texas sports arena, former first lady Barbara Bush on Monday seemed to suggest a silver lining for the "underprivileged" forced from their flooded homes in New Orleans. "What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality," she said in a radio interview from the Astrodome in Houston, Texas. "And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this -- this is working very well for them," she said

Quote 2
In an effort to raise the spirits of the hundreds of thousands who have lost their homes, Bush promised to rebuild devastated areas better than they were before, but at one point focused on the home of a powerful lawmaker. "Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house -- he's lost his entire house -- there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch," he said on a tour of the region Friday, drawing nervous laughter. Some Republicans winced, including one disbelieving congressional aide who told AFP: "Lott? He's focusing on Lott? Surrounded by poor people, he talks about a sitting senator?"

more at link....

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 09:00 AM
I figured you would. IMO, asking questions, forming opinions that may change as we get more information, recognizing "blame" is being used, to a large degree, to shame people into not asking questions--I find that to be a reasonable and caring response to this tragedy. Not the only reasonable and caring response, but a valid one.

I agree. I still don't know who is to blame for what, with some exceptions.

It couldn't go smoothly, perhaps. But how close did we get to the possible response in this set of circumstances?

Snipped for space, but all was a very good, thought-provoking post. Can I just say I enjoyed the discussions yesterday, much more than days prior? There was actual discussion, not personal issues. :blowkiss: I learn a lot from reading your take on things, and balancing with other posters' information and opinions. To me, we're learning as we go. That's really all I wanted - not to be so focused on one level or one person from Day #1. There's always more to the story. This is going to be a long journey ;)

Regarding your last question, I hope we find the answer...and great improvements are made in the future.

TexMex
09-08-2005, 09:03 AM
Wednesday, September 7

Explosive revelation by Fox News' Major Garrett.

On the Fox News Channel just a little while ago, Major Garrett, one of Fox's star reporters, and author of The Enduring Revolution, broke a very disturbing story for those on the left that want to play the blame game regarding the reaction to the Katrina. Here's his interview with Hugh Hewitt moments ago:

HH: Joined now by Major Garrett, correspondent for the Fox News Channel, as well as author of The Enduring Revolution, a best seller earlier this year. We talked about that. Major Garrett, welcome back to the Hugh Hewitt Show.

MG: Hugh, always a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

HH: You just broke a pretty big story. I was watching up on the corner television in my studio, and it's headlined that the Red Cross was blocked from delivering supplies to the Superdome, Major Garrett. Tell us what you found out.

MG: Well, the Red Cross, Hugh, had pre-positioned a literal vanguard of trucks with water, food, blankets and hygiene items. They're not really big into medical response items, but those are the three biggies that we saw people at the New Orleans Superdome, and the convention center, needing most accutely. And all of us in America, I think, reasonably asked ourselves, geez. You know, I watch hurricanes all the time. And I see correspondents standing among rubble and refugees and evacuaees. But I always either see that Red Cross or Salvation Army truck nearby. Why don't I see that?

HH: And the answer is?

MG: The answer is the Louisiana Department of Homeland Security, that is the state agency responsible for that state's homeland security, told the Red Cross explicitly, you cannot come.

HH: Now Major Garrett, on what day did they block the delivery? Do you know specifically?

MG: I am told by the Red Cross, immediately after the storm passed.

HH: Okay, so that would be on Monday afternoon.

MG: That would have been Monday or Tuesday. The exact time, the hour, I don't have. But clearly, they had an evacuee situation at the Superdome, and of course, people gravitated to the convention center on an ad hoc basis. They sort of invented that as another place to go, because they couldn't stand the conditions at the Superdome.

HH: Any doubt in the Red Cross' mind that they were ready to go, but they were blocked?

MG: No. Absolutely none. They are absolutely unequivocal on that point.

Transcript of FOX report of Red Cross

http://www.radioblogger.com/

TexMex
09-08-2005, 09:09 AM
MG: No. Absolutely none. They are absolutely unequivocal on that point.

HH: And are they eager to get this story out there, because they are chagrined by the coverage that's been emanating from New Orleans?

MG: I think they are. I mean, and look. Every agency that is in the private sector, Salvation Army, Red Cross, Feed The Children, all the ones we typically see are aggrieved by all the crap that's being thrown around about the response to this hurricane, because they work hand and glove with the Federal Emergency Management Agency. When FEMA is tarred and feathered, the Red Cross and the Salvation Army are tarred and feathered, because they work on a cooperative basis. They feel they are being sullied by this reaction.

HH: Of course they are. Now Major Garrett, what about the Louisiana governor's office of Homeland Security. Have they responded to this charge by the Red Cross, which is a blockbuster charge?

MG: I have not been able to reach them yet. But, what they have said consistently is, and what they told the Red Cross, we don't want you to come in there, because we have evacuees that we want to get out. And if you come in, they're more likely to stay. So I want your listeners to follow me here. At the very moment that Ray Nagin, the Mayor of New Orleans was screaming where's the food, where's the water, it was over the overpass, and state officials were saying you can't come in.

HH: How long would it have taken to deliver those supplies, Major Garrett, into the Superdome and possibly the convention center?

MG: That is a more difficult question to answer than you might think. There were areas, obviously, as you approached the Superdome, that were difficult to get to, because of the flood waters. And as the Red Cross explained it to me, look. We don't have amphibious vehicles. We have trucks and ambulance type vehicles. In some cases, after the flood waters rose as high as they did, we would have needed, at minimal, the Louisiana National Guard to bring us in, or maybe something bigger and badder, from the Marines or Army-type vehicle. They're not sure about that. But remember, Hugh, we were transfixed, I know I was. I'm sure you were and your listeners were, by my colleague, Shep Smith, and others on that overpass.

HH: Right.

MG: ...saying, wait a minute. We drove here. It didn't take us anything to drive here.

HH: Right.

MG: Why can't people just come here?

HH: I also have to conclude from what you're telling me, Major Garrett, is that had they been allowed to deliver when they wanted to deliver, which is at least a little bit prior to the levee, or at least prior to the waters rising, the supplies would have been pre-positioned, and the relief...you know, the people in the Superdome, and possibly at the convention center, I want to come back to that, would have been spared the worst of their misery.

MG: They would have been spared the lack of food, water and hygiene. I don't think there's any doubt that they would not have been spared the indignity of having nor workable bathrooms in short order.

HH: Now Major Garrett, let's turn to the convention center, because this will be, in the aftermath...did the Red Cross have ready to go into the convention center the supplies that we're talking about as well?

MG: Sure. They could have gone to any location, provided that the water wasn't too high, and they got some assistance.

HH: Now, were they utterly dependent upon the Louisiana state officials to okay them?

MG: Yes.

HH: Because you know, they do work with FEMA. But is it your understanding that FEMA and the Red Cross and the other relief agencies must get tht state's okay to act?

MG: As the Red Cross told me, they said look. We are not state actors. We are not the Army. We are a private organziation. We work in cooperation with both FEMA and the state officials. But the state told us A) it's not safe, because the water is dangerous. And we're now learning how toxic the water is. B) there's a security situation, because they didn't have a handle on the violence on the ground. And C) and I think this is most importantly, they wanted to evacuate out. They didn't want people to stay.

HH: Now off the record, will the Red Cross tell you what they think of Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin?

MG: No.

HH: Will they tell you what they think about FEMA director Brown?

MG: No.

HH: Will they tell you any...will they give any advice of how to make sure this doesn't happen again?

MG: Well, there is something, Hugh, that I think we have to be honest with ourselves about. New Orleans is a situation, because of its geography, utterly unique in America. We don't build cities in bowls, except there. This complicated the Red Cross efforts, and the FEMA efforts, from the start. In the mid-90's, the Red Cross opened a shelter in South Carolina that was eventually flooded. And there was a big controversy about that. After that, the Red Cross made a policy decision that it would never shelter, or seek to shelter, any evacuee from any hurricane, anywhere where flooding was likely to occur. High ground is where they were going to be, and where they were going to go. Well, that basically rules out all of New Orleans.

HH: Sure. Does the Red Cross, though, assist in evacuation, Major Garrett?

MG: Not under the state plan in Louisiana. And not very many other places, either, because again, the Red Cross is a responding private charity. It is not an evacuation charity. It does not assume, as you can well imagine, Hugh, the inevitable liability that would come with being in charge of evacuating.

HH: How senior are your sources at the Red Cross, Major Garrett?

MG: They're right next to Marty Evans, the president.

HH: So you have no doubt in your mind that they have...

MG: Oh, none. None. And I want to give credit to Bill O'Reilly, because he had Marty Evans on the O'Reilly Factor last night. And this is the first time Marty Evans said it. She said it on the O'Reilly Factor last night in a very sort of brief intro to her longer comments about dealing with the housing and other needs of the evacuees now. She said look. We were ready. We couldn't go in. They wouldn't let us in, and the interview continued. I developed it more fully today.

HH: And the 'they' are the Louisiana state officials?

MG: Right.

HH: Now any in the 'they'...is the New Orleans' mayor's staff involved as well? Or the New Orleans police department?

MG: Not that I'm aware of, because the decision was made and communicated to the Red Cross by the state department of Homeland Security and the state National Guard. Both of which report to the governor.

HH: Do they have any paper records of this communication?

MG: I did not ask that. It's a good question. I'll follow up with them.

HH: I sure would love to know that. And if you get it, send it to me. We'll put it up on the blog. Major Garrett, great story. Please keep us posted. Look forward to talking to you a lot in the next couple of weeks on this story. Thanks for breaking away from the Fox News Channel this afternoon.

End of interview

kgeaux
09-08-2005, 09:14 AM
And just for the record, the STATE has the plan to evacuate them, not FEMA or the feds, in case anyone missed that.... ;)


I think the Louisiana emergency plan states that hospitals are responsible for coming up with their own plans (!) The plan must be OK'd by the state, but the hospital is in charge. There's so much info in there, and I confess now that I haven't waded through all of it.

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf

The applicable part is on page 14; I may be misinterpreting but sounds to me like the state may have an "out" on this one.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 09:18 AM
Thanks again for your continuing, interesting finds....

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 09:20 AM
I think the Louisiana emergency plan states that hospitals are responsible for coming up with their own plans (!) The plan must be OK'd by the state, but the hospital is in charge. I'm not sure about nursing homes. There's so much info in there, and I confess now that I haven't waded through all of it.

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf


Well, that would make sense, actually. Who else would know it and the intricacies of their own facilities and needs better than the staff that works there....

kgeaux
09-08-2005, 09:22 AM
Well, that would make sense, actually. Who else would know it and the intricacies of their own facilities and needs better than the staff that works there....


Hey, deputy! I went back and edited...nursing homes are mentioned in the section. Unless there is something else furthur into the plan that contridicts this (and how often does that happen? always!) then it sounds as though the nursing home employees and directors are going to be the ones at fault here.

kgeaux
09-08-2005, 09:27 AM
still going through the plan: pg. 21 contains the information that the state will direct the evacuation and shelter of persons in a nursing home, hospital, group home. It's aint looking too pretty.

I am wondering if anything at all went right?

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 09:40 AM
still going through the plan: pg. 21 contains the information that the state will direct the evacuation and shelter of persons in a nursing home, hospital, group home. It's aint looking too pretty.

I am wondering if anything at all went right?

Page II-3, (Under "Assumptions"):

#14. Hospitals, nursing homes, group homes, etc. will have pre-determined evacuation and/or refugee plans if evacuation becomes necessary. All facilities will have approved Multi-Hazard Emergency Operations Plans as mandated by the State of Louisiana, Dept. of Health and Hospitals (DHH). Before operating permits are given to homes/hospitals, emergency precautions are to be taken, such as the placement of emergency supplies and equipment (i.e., generators and potable water) on upper floors."

cynder
09-08-2005, 10:00 AM
Page II-3, (Under "Assumptions"):

#14. Hospitals, nursing homes, group homes, etc. will have pre-determined evacuation and/or refugee plans if evacuation becomes necessary. All facilities will have approved Multi-Hazard Emergency Operations Plans as mandated by the State of Louisiana, Dept. of Health and Hospitals (DHH). Before operating permits are given to homes/hospitals, emergency precautions are to be taken, such as the placement of emergency supplies and equipment (i.e., generators and potable water) on upper floors."
The nursing home was offered evacuation (vehicles were sent and refused) before the storm and they refused. When the waters started to rise about 25 people were floated out and saved - the rest died along with the caretaker who stayed with them.
So they HAD a plan and the nursing home refused evacuation.
As to the hospitals, they too had a plan - and generators, and supplies. Most hospitals do NOT evacuate in a Hurricane - many patients too ill for moving them. The ultimate responsibility is the hospital's, not the State's.

kgeaux
09-08-2005, 10:04 AM
The nursing home was offered evacuation (vehicles were sent and refused) before the storm and they refused. When the waters started to rise about 25 people were floated out and saved - the rest died along with the caretaker who stayed with them.
So they HAD a plan and the nursing home refused evacuation.
As to the hospitals, they too had a plan - and generators, and supplies. Most hospitals do NOT evacuate in a Hurricane - many patients too ill for moving them. The ultimate responsibility is the hospital's, not the State's.

Oh my God. They refused help? What on earth could they have been thinking!

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 10:07 AM
Oh my God. They refused help? What on earth could they have been thinking!

Ditto, what she said...

JBean
09-08-2005, 10:10 AM
Page II-3, (Under "Assumptions"):

#14. Hospitals, nursing homes, group homes, etc. will have pre-determined evacuation and/or refugee plans if evacuation becomes necessary. All facilities will have approved Multi-Hazard Emergency Operations Plans as mandated by the State of Louisiana, Dept. of Health and Hospitals (DHH). Before operating permits are given to homes/hospitals, emergency precautions are to be taken, such as the placement of emergency supplies and equipment (i.e., generators and potable water) on upper floors."I sent my sister an email this am to ask her the 'splain how this should all go down.
I mean I know she gives seminars and conferences on this stuff, so I'm wondering who approves or facilitates the evacuation locations? SOunds like they have to submit an acceptable plan.
I'll let you know what she says , but she's working round the clock.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 10:11 AM
I sent my sister an email this am to ask her the 'splain how this should all go down.
I mean I know she gives seminars and conferences on this stuff, so I'm wondering who approves or facilitates the evacuation locations? SOunds like they have to submit an acceptable plan.
I'll let you know what she says , but she's working round the clock.

Thanks! Inquiring minds wanna know.... :waitasec:

JBean
09-08-2005, 10:12 AM
still going through the plan: pg. 21 contains the information that the state will direct the evacuation and shelter of persons in a nursing home, hospital, group home. It's aint looking too pretty.

I am wondering if anything at all went right?
When the foundation of the evacuation plan (city/state) buckles like this one did, it's nealry impossible for the next rung up on the ladder to support what is already falling down.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 10:15 AM
When the foundation of the evacuation plan (city/state) buckles like this one did, it's nealry impossible for the next rung up on the ladder to support what is already falling down.

Exactly. And when you're in the middle of the crisis, communication lines are down, etc. - hard to know what is really going on at the lower level. Sometimes, the higher level has to assume (I know, but...) that the lower level is doing what it's supposed to do.... that next level up has it's own things it should be doing, not babysitting all the lower level activities. IMO

less0305
09-08-2005, 10:27 AM
We have an item on our agenda this very month to approve a resolution supporting the National Incident Management System which says in part:

Whereas, to facilitate the most efficient and effective incident management it is critical that Federal, State, local, and tribal organizations utilize standardized terminology; standardized organizational structures; interoperable communications; consolidated action plans; unified command structures; uniform personnel qualifications; uniform standards for planning, training, and exercising; comprehensive resource management; and designated incident facilities during emergencies or disasters; and

Whereas, the NIMS standardized procedures for managing personnel, communications, facilities, and resources will improve the local’s ability to utilize the State and Federal funding to enhance local agencies readiness, maintain first responder safety, and streamline incident management processes

And this was given to us from our County Emergency Management through the State Emergency Management last month to consider at this month's meeting even before the Hurricane Katrina event.

JBean
09-08-2005, 10:27 AM
Exactly. And when you're in the middle of the crisis, communication lines are down, etc. - hard to know what is really going on at the lower level. Sometimes, the higher level has to assume (I know, but...) that the lower level is doing what it's supposed to do.... that next level up has it's own things it should be doing, not babysitting all the lower level activities. IMOWe can even go alittle farther down the ladder to the individuals. While it would not have saved everyone, if some of these people had plan in place for this type of catastrophe, it would have saved some of these people that were completely helpless.
I know people that left 2 days prior with their rations and are 100%fine.

While I recognize that many of these people were poor, it strikes me odd that with such a high percentage of indigence that there wasn't some statewide hurricane supply program or something along those lines for the individual to sustain? Food or ration coupons to be exchanged for supplies once a year or something.

This goes back to what the priorities are of the people we put in office. Individual vote really matters. This will be an issue that just got bumped up on my "important" scale when comparing candidates for office.

cynder
09-08-2005, 10:32 AM
Oh my God. They refused help? What on earth could they have been thinking!
The same thing a LOT of people were thinking - we'll be fine, we'll ride it out, the levees will hold. We have never been hit, it will die down, we survived Camille, the building has been here since 1902, we're safe. There are also issues of where to take these people, care issues, management issues (dementia, for instance).
I don't think ANYONE was realistic where Katrina was concerned. I am not sure many of the people who stayed would have evacuated if a bus had been parked at their door. Thousands arrived at the Superdome not BEFORE the hurricane but during it and the day after when the levee broke. At the count before the Hurricane there were about 5000 there - after the number swelled to over 30,000 with another 25,000 who showed up after the hurricane and flooding at the Convention center - which was NEVER officially designated as a shelter.
Not everyone who remained in NO was indigent or without transportation - many people have said they COULD have evacuated, but didn't. Some got tired of waiting in the traffic and decided to return home instead. A lot of people in Dallas are already lookingto replace "lost" transportation so it is apparent that they HAD a means of evacuating and did not by personal choice.
Blame here cannot be placed totally in any one person's hands. A number of failures contributed - and they range from individual decisions right up to the President.

less0305
09-08-2005, 10:38 AM
The same thing a LOT of people were thinking - we'll be fine, we'll ride it out, the levees will hold. We have never been hit, it will die down, we survived Camille, the building has been here since 1902, we're safe. There are also issues of where to take these people, care issues, management issues (dementia, for instance).
I don't think ANYONE was realistic where Katrina was concerned. I am not sure many of the people who stayed would have evacuated if a bus had been parked at their door. Thousands arrived at the Superdome not BEFORE the hurricane but during it and the day after when the levee broke. At the count before the Hurricane there were about 5000 there - after the number swelled to over 30,000 with another 25,000 who showed up after the hurricane and flooding at the Convention center - which was NEVER officially designated as a shelter.
Not everyone who remained in NO was indigent or without transportation - many people have said they COULD have evacuated, but didn't. Some got tired of waiting in the traffic and decided to return home instead. A lot of people in Dallas are already lookingto replace "lost" transportation so it is apparent that they HAD a means of evacuating and did not by personal choice.
Blame here cannot be placed totally in any one person's hands. A number of failures contributed - and they range from individual decisions right up to the President.

You can look at all the footage of cars under water and tell that many who had transportation even, didn't leave. Maybe they didn't think they had anywhere to go to.... And I can't believe the pictures of traffic snarled going in one direction only on one side of the freeway. Why in the world didn't somebody put those folks on both sides of the freeway going OUT? And there again, personal responsibility - I would have driven through or over the median or got off on an exit and took the on ramp down onto the freeway going the opposite direction. The pictures I saw didn't show any cars coming in - so having a head on collision wasn't that big of a chance - if you were careful and watchful.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 10:43 AM
We have an item on our agenda this very month to approve a resolution supporting the National Incident Management System which says in part:

Whereas, to facilitate the most efficient and effective incident management it is critical that Federal, State, local, and tribal organizations utilize standardized terminology; standardized organizational structures; interoperable communications; consolidated action plans; unified command structures; uniform personnel qualifications; uniform standards for planning, training, and exercising; comprehensive resource management; and designated incident facilities during emergencies or disasters; and

Whereas, the NIMS standardized procedures for managing personnel, communications, facilities, and resources will improve the local’s ability to utilize the State and Federal funding to enhance local agencies readiness, maintain first responder safety, and streamline incident management processes

And this was given to us from our County Emergency Management through the State Emergency Management last month to consider at this month's meeting even before the Hurricane Katrina event.

Very interesting, and good luck!

To give some credit to Dept of Homeland Security, etc., after 9/11... there have been great improvements to our Agency's interoperable communications (about a 2 year project that I think has been completed)...and I read something awhile ago about HUGE improvements made in communication capabilities in the El Paso area's agencies - they really had poor equipment, communications, etc. and they're on the front line with Mexico and border security issues, etc. And there have been many other new projects, training emphasis, etc. on things such as what you listed above.

Also, I've read very little on it so far, but there seems to be some act (national, I believe) that police agencies are going to have to start abiding by more standard terminology and codes. Speaking as one who's worked in two agencies with completely different codes, and married to another agency officer, who had many codes that were different, this is a good thing! It can get confusing working a scene and not talking the same language, haha.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 10:50 AM
You can look at all the footage of cars under water and tell that many who had transportation even, didn't leave. Maybe they didn't think they had anywhere to go to.... And I can't believe the pictures of traffic snarled going in one direction only on one side of the freeway. Why in the world didn't somebody put those folks on both sides of the freeway going OUT? And there again, personal responsibility - I would have driven through or over the median or got off on an exit and took the on ramp down onto the freeway going the opposite direction. The pictures I saw didn't show any cars coming in - so having a head on collision wasn't that big of a chance - if you were careful and watchful.

I wondered about that as well, why only on one side of the freeway? :doh: I know I skimmed over the transportation route info in that LA document posted awhile ago, and when I've got more time, I'll find what it said. But here's a little in that document:

Page II-3 (Under "Assumptions" again):

19. US Highways 11, 61, 90 and 190 are unlimited access routes having numerous entrances and exits. It is not practical to limit access to them in time of emergency or to convert them to one-way outbound evacuation routes. Traffic flow will continue normally, and two-way traffic of emergency vehicles will be directed to these routes.

20. Interstate highways are limited access routes. Entrances and exits can be controlled to make the routes into one-way outbound evacuation routes. The LA State Police (LSP) and Dept. of Transportation and Development (DOTD) shall provide the management of the traffic flow, assisted by the LA National Guard (LANG).

cynder
09-08-2005, 11:00 AM
You can look at all the footage of cars under water and tell that many who had transportation even, didn't leave. Maybe they didn't think they had anywhere to go to.... And I can't believe the pictures of traffic snarled going in one direction only on one side of the freeway. Why in the world didn't somebody put those folks on both sides of the freeway going OUT? And there again, personal responsibility - I would have driven through or over the median or got off on an exit and took the on ramp down onto the freeway going the opposite direction. The pictures I saw didn't show any cars coming in - so having a head on collision wasn't that big of a chance - if you were careful and watchful.
The designated evacuation routes WERE made one way (both sides) but some streets/roads were not - for purposes of emergency vehicles etc going IN or doing other duties. People still have to be able to get around the city - even in an evacuation. Not every highway, every section is made "one way" - which is why they designate some as evacuation routes - open only to outflowing vehicles.
It STILL was hours and hours getting out though - and it would have been hours in a hot schoolbus for those people if they had used them to evacuate people. I can see elderly, sick and those with small kids not wanting to be stuck in ANY vehicle for hours and hours just to get out - and to where - an overcrowded shelter in Baton Rouge? They just didn't grasp how bad it was going to get in New Orleans. And others in MS, AL and parts of LA outside NO did the same thing - they stayed. And if you look, these many of these folks were not "indigent" either - these were expensive homes and condos/apts on the water (or near) and there was NO impediment to them leaving (traffic, transportation, money etc) - they just chose not to. One lady interviewed said no-one in her area left - these were homes that had stood for 125 years and they were confident they would be fine in Katrina. And it wasn't the winds, but the storm surge that destroyed this area. Even educated, capable, intelligent people though they could ride out Katrina at home. Too many false alarms in the past perhaps had made them complacent, I think. They had evacuated before for nothing and this one happened to "get them".

JBean
09-08-2005, 11:07 AM
The designated evacuation routes WERE made one way (both sides) but some streets/roads were not - for purposes of emergency vehicles etc going IN or doing other duties. People still have to be able to get around the city - even in an evacuation. Not every highway, every section is made "one way" - which is why they designate some as evacuation routes - open only to outflowing vehicles.
It STILL was hours and hours getting out though - and it would have been hours in a hot schoolbus for those people if they had used them to evacuate people. I can see elderly, sick and those with small kids not wanting to be stuck in ANY vehicle for hours and hours just to get out - and to where - an overcrowded shelter in Baton Rouge? They just didn't grasp how bad it was going to get in New Orleans. And others in MS, AL and parts of LA outside NO did the same thing - they stayed. And if you look, these many of these folks were not "indigent" either - these were expensive homes and condos/apts on the water (or near) and there was NO impediment to them leaving (traffic, transportation, money etc) - they just chose not to. One lady interviewed said no-one in her area left - these were homes that had stood for 125 years and they were confident they would be fine in Katrina. And it wasn't the winds, but the storm surge that destroyed this area. Even educated, capable, intelligent people though they could ride out Katrina at home. Too many false alarms in the past perhaps had made them complacent, I think. They had evacuated before for nothing and this one happened to "get them".I think dodging the bullet time and time again is the key here. Individuals have to accept their individual responsibilty for not reacting.Which is why I am sitting up and taking notice in my area. WE have had countless earthquakes and even though I have been warned about the big one time and time again, I ignore the warnings as well. Not any more.
But what you say about where the non-evacuees is critical. Their destination and who got them there should have all been predetermined. It almost seems like the city was winging it. It did not have to go down the way it did. there were alternatives in place, or should have been. Many of the locals did nothing for themselves and the local governement did nothing for it locals. It was doomed from the start.

less0305
09-08-2005, 11:07 AM
I agree Cynder. It's just a terrible situation all around. Don't tell the cops....but I would've used one of those incoming lanes anyway. I'm proactive usually, not reactive. Hell with the traffic fine.

SieSie
09-08-2005, 11:21 AM
The nursing home was offered evacuation (vehicles were sent and refused) before the storm and they refused. When the waters started to rise about 25 people were floated out and saved - the rest died along with the caretaker who stayed with them.
So they HAD a plan and the nursing home refused evacuation.
As to the hospitals, they too had a plan - and generators, and supplies. Most hospitals do NOT evacuate in a Hurricane - many patients too ill for moving them. The ultimate responsibility is the hospital's, not the State's.

Emphasis mine - do you have a link to where it says they were offered and refused evacuation help?? Thanks, Cynder!! :blowkiss:

Buzz Mills
09-08-2005, 11:22 AM
Not to change the subject, but disasters often lead to scams & abuse of the system, and the government throwing money into the chasm, in an effort to stem the tide of screams from the poor. The idea of issuing $2000 debit cards to every family?, every adult?, one card to each address?--whichever it was planned to be, is another one of those idiotic efforts. In this situation of complete confusion, and pandemonium, this is akin to the looting of all of the stores in New Orleans, only this time it is the government money store that will be looted. This was an idea of Mike Brown of FEMA. As we know, Mike Brown and FEMA haven't looked too good, in this time of crisis, and that is putting it mildly, so, is this dumb & dumber move, supposed to ingratiate Mike & FEMA to anyone?? Not that the families don't need, or shouldn't be provided with, relief, but this won't accomplish its original intent. What has been done, is to create yet another way for abuse to run rampant.

cynder
09-08-2005, 11:30 AM
I agree Cynder. It's just a terrible situation all around. Don't tell the cops....but I would've used one of those incoming lanes anyway. I'm proactive usually, not reactive. Hell with the traffic fine.
I am with you on this one! Me and a car full of critters (or even 2 cars full, lol). My husband's favorite saying when bucking the status quo is "better to ask forgiveness than permission". He is usually right - I cringe and crawl under available furniture sometimes, but he usually manages to do exactly what he intended to do - and well ahead of the masses who "follow the rules" too. Neither of us has what you would call a "herd" mentality - but he seems to be able to buck the system more overtly than I. We make a good team. I can promise you OUR family (furry and shelled and even finned) would have been OUTTA THERE, even if we had to walk out.
And yes, we have our tornado shelter equipped, ready and waiting and even the indoor turts get brought inside it at the 1st warning. When we hit the shelter all the indoor critters are already in there crated. I grew up in OK - you don't mess with Mother Nature - she will win every time. I ain't temptin' fate.

Larkit
09-08-2005, 11:34 AM
I just read over in another forum that Barbara Bush said that since the survivors were already so poor, they are doing pretty well in the Astrodome. Does anyone know if this is true, if she really said that?
Here's the remark, followed by the context:

Mrs. Bush, after touring the Astrodome complex in Houston on Monday, said: "What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them." She commented during a radio interview with the American Public Media program "Marketplace."

~~~~~~

"...... McClellan said: "I think that the observation is based on someone or some people that were talking to her that were in need of a lot of assistance, people that have gone through a lot of trauma and been through a very difficult and trying time. And all of a sudden, they are now getting great help in the state of Texas from some of the shelters."

The people under the dome are receiving housing, jobs, cash, insurance claim and legal information, education programs, everything they need to start a new life. I would imagine it is a step up for many of them.

Ntegrity
09-08-2005, 11:40 AM
I fail to see what was so bad about Barbara Bush's remark since I've been told these people were so poor they didn't have containers to carry drinking water in. :rolleyes:

JBean
09-08-2005, 11:40 AM
I fail to see what was so bad about Barbara Bush's remark since I've been told these people were so poor they didn't have containers to carry drinking water in. :rolleyes:
OKay. I don't get what's wrong about her comments either. Am I missing something?

Larkit
09-08-2005, 11:42 AM
I fail to see what was so bad about Barbara Bush's remark since I've been told these people were so poor they didn't have containers to carry drinking water in. :rolleyes:
I don't have any problem with what she said. After all, didn't we hear for days that these people were too poor to buy gas, food or water before the hurricane?

cynder
09-08-2005, 11:43 AM
Emphasis mine - do you have a link to where it says they were offered and refused evacuation help?? Thanks, Cynder!! :blowkiss:
Front Page, Dallas Morning News Today
"When St. Bernard Parish officials realized last week that St. Rita's Nursing Home had not evacuated as Hurricane Katrina bore down, they called to ask why. Their offer to send buses to help was turned down, they said. On Wednesday, officials were still unsure of the number of people who died there, but previous estimates put the toll at 30 or more. The high water mark in the building reached a foot shy of the ceiling. "
http://www.dallasnews.com/index.html

Ntegrity
09-08-2005, 11:49 AM
OKay. I don't get what's wrong about her comments either. Am I missing something?
mmmm, I think it may be her last name that bugs most people. :D

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 11:53 AM
mmmm, I think it may be her last name that bugs most people. :D

;)

And, knowing how my long dissertations can be misconstrued re intent, etc. here, in writing...wait til ya hear me do public speaking when I'm nervous! I'd hate to be thrown to the wolves on EVERY SINGLE WORD...

What was her intent, true feelings? I dunno. But I can see how a lot of it is true, many may very well be better off. Maybe some won't. Don't think she said ALL.

JBean
09-08-2005, 12:03 PM
mmmm, I think it may be her last name that bugs most people. :D:bang:
OKay, but isn;t what she said the truth? I really want to know.

TexMex
09-08-2005, 12:03 PM
Here's the remark, followed by the context:

Mrs. Bush, after touring the Astrodome complex in Houston on Monday, said: "What I'm hearing, which is sort of scary, is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is so overwhelmed by the hospitality. And so many of the people in the arena here, you know, were underprivileged anyway, so this is working very well for them." She commented during a radio interview with the American Public Media program "Marketplace."

~~~~~~

"...... McClellan said: "I think that the observation is based on someone or some people that were talking to her that were in need of a lot of assistance, people that have gone through a lot of trauma and been through a very difficult and trying time. And all of a sudden, they are now getting great help in the state of Texas from some of the shelters."

The people under the dome are receiving housing, jobs, cash, insurance claim and legal information, education programs, everything they need to start a new life. I would imagine it is a step up for many of them.


LOL...context is a beautiful thing!

People at the Dome are receiving HELP unlike the city they left where the poor were told to bring their OWN food and water to the Superdome.

SieSie
09-08-2005, 12:05 PM
Front Page, Dallas Morning News Today
"When St. Bernard Parish officials realized last week that St. Rita's Nursing Home had not evacuated as Hurricane Katrina bore down, they called to ask why. Their offer to send buses to help was turned down, they said. On Wednesday, officials were still unsure of the number of people who died there, but previous estimates put the toll at 30 or more. The high water mark in the building reached a foot shy of the ceiling. "
http://www.dallasnews.com/index.html

Wow, thanks Cynder, for providing where the info came from. This is just appalling and senseless. I don't understand it at all.

TexMex
09-08-2005, 12:11 PM
Front Page, Dallas Morning News Today
"When St. Bernard Parish officials realized last week that St. Rita's Nursing Home had not evacuated as Hurricane Katrina bore down, they called to ask why. Their offer to send buses to help was turned down, they said. On Wednesday, officials were still unsure of the number of people who died there, but previous estimates put the toll at 30 or more. The high water mark in the building reached a foot shy of the ceiling. "
http://www.dallasnews.com/index.html


Hi cynder

Here's a NYTIMES article on St Rita's

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/national/nationalspecial/07chalmette.html

cynder
09-08-2005, 12:21 PM
Hi cynder

Here's a NYTIMES article on St Rita's

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/07/national/nationalspecial/07chalmette.html

It says there were 8 (yes EIGHT) vehicles left parked in the parking lot and electric wheelchairs at the doors. They had time to put boards on the windows and take other measures to hold out flood water too.
What is wrong with these people? They had warnings, means and transportation RIGHT THERE, turned down alternate evacuation offered and 32 people drowned!
This just shows that no matter what the state and federal officials do, some people REFUSE to heed warnings and even reject assistance. And these are trained, aware, professional people who should be held to a higher standard - this is not a case of someone illiterate, out of touch person who didn't "know" better.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 12:24 PM
It says there were 8 (yes EIGHT) vehicles left parked in the parking lot and electric wheelchairs at the doors. They had time to put boards on the windows and take other measures to hold out flood water too.
What is wrong with these people? They had warnings, means and transportation RIGHT THERE, turned down alternate evacuation offered and 32 people drowned!
This just shows that no matter what the state and federal officials do, some people REFUSE to heed warnings and even reject assistance. And these are trained, aware, professional people who should be held to a higher standard - this is not a case of someone illiterate, out of touch person who didn't "know" better.

Sometimes, stark reality is painful. That is a sad, sad case.

KrazyKollector
09-08-2005, 12:58 PM
I am with you on this one! Me and a car full of critters (or even 2 cars full, lol). My husband's favorite saying when bucking the status quo is "better to ask forgiveness than permission". He is usually right - I cringe and crawl under available furniture sometimes, but he usually manages to do exactly what he intended to do - and well ahead of the masses who "follow the rules" too. Neither of us has what you would call a "herd" mentality - but he seems to be able to buck the system more overtly than I. We make a good team. I can promise you OUR family (furry and shelled and even finned) would have been OUTTA THERE, even if we had to walk out.
And yes, we have our tornado shelter equipped, ready and waiting and even the indoor turts get brought inside it at the 1st warning. When we hit the shelter all the indoor critters are already in there crated. I grew up in OK - you don't mess with Mother Nature - she will win every time. I ain't temptin' fate.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

KrazyKollector
09-08-2005, 01:08 PM
It says there were 8 (yes EIGHT) vehicles left parked in the parking lot and electric wheelchairs at the doors. They had time to put boards on the windows and take other measures to hold out flood water too.
What is wrong with these people? They had warnings, means and transportation RIGHT THERE, turned down alternate evacuation offered and 32 people drowned!
This just shows that no matter what the state and federal officials do, some people REFUSE to heed warnings and even reject assistance. And these are trained, aware, professional people who should be held to a higher standard - this is not a case of someone illiterate, out of touch person who didn't "know" better.It just makes me sick to my stomach. It's one thing if you want to refuse help for yourself because you think you're the super survivor. When you involve your children, other people's children, the ill and the eldery, all of whom don't have a voice, it's akin to murder in my book.

I know this will get me flamed, but if I was there and everyone had left me with many eldery patients that I knew I couldn't save; I would be making up some sleeping syringes. Then, if the water hit and kept coming, at least I would be able to do something for them in their final minutes. Hopefully, there would be a syringe left for me, because I fear drowning and burning as modes of death. :( *with many tears*

Details
09-08-2005, 03:29 PM
I sent my sister an email this am to ask her the 'splain how this should all go down.
I mean I know she gives seminars and conferences on this stuff, so I'm wondering who approves or facilitates the evacuation locations? SOunds like they have to submit an acceptable plan.
I'll let you know what she says , but she's working round the clock.Also - is it usual for a city or state to just be able to say, "we won't evacuate these places, that's their problem." - I can understand it to a degree for the hospitals to determine how and when and who - but it seems like the state should be providing the resources, making sure everyone gets out - they're citizens just like everyone else.

JBean
09-08-2005, 05:44 PM
Also - is it usual for a city or state to just be able to say, "we won't evacuate these places, that's their problem." - I can understand it to a degree for the hospitals to determine how and when and who - but it seems like the state should be providing the resources, making sure everyone gets out - they're citizens just like everyone else.
My sister sent me back a quick email saying "Depends on the emergency operating plan from jurisdiction to jurisdiction." She said she will try to send me a more detailed response tomorrow and find out what was specific to NOLA.

TexMex
09-08-2005, 08:42 PM
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin garnered a ton of publicity with a profanity-laced interview he gave to WWL radio last Thursday, where he blasted President Bush and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco for not coming to rescue his city in time.

However, Nagin's most newsworthy comments - where he explained why he didn't use hundreds of city school buses to evacuate his city's flood victims - went almost unnoticed.

Turns out, Nagin turned his nose up at the yellow buses, demanding more comfortable Greyhound coaches instead.
"I need 500 buses, man," he told WWL. "One of the briefings we had they were talking about getting, you know, public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out of here."

Nagin described his response:

"I'm like - you've got to be kidding me. This is a natural disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

While Nagin was waiting for his Greyhound fleet, Katrina's floodwaters swamped his school buses, rendering them unusable.

kgeaux
09-08-2005, 08:54 PM
Also - is it usual for a city or state to just be able to say, "we won't evacuate these places, that's their problem." - I can understand it to a degree for the hospitals to determine how and when and who - but it seems like the state should be providing the resources, making sure everyone gets out - they're citizens just like everyone else.

The emergency plans are to be made and ok'd before the hospital, nursing home etc. can get approval to operate, BUT on page 21 of the LA Emergency operations plan, it states that the state of Louisiana will "direct the evacuation and shelter of persons having limited mobility" including those in hospitals and nursing homes.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, the institution itself comes up with the plan, the state approves the plan before allowing the facility to open for business, and in case of an emergency, the state directs the evacuation and shelter of such places.

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 09:01 PM
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin garnered a ton of publicity with a profanity-laced interview he gave to WWL radio last Thursday, where he blasted President Bush and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco for not coming to rescue his city in time.

However, Nagin's most newsworthy comments - where he explained why he didn't use hundreds of city school buses to evacuate his city's flood victims - went almost unnoticed.

Turns out, Nagin turned his nose up at the yellow buses, demanding more comfortable Greyhound coaches instead.
"I need 500 buses, man," he told WWL. "One of the briefings we had they were talking about getting, you know, public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out of here."

Nagin described his response:

"I'm like - you've got to be kidding me. This is a natural disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

While Nagin was waiting for his Greyhound fleet, Katrina's floodwaters swamped his school buses, rendering them unusable.


And another good find by Tex.... :clap:

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:06 PM
New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin garnered a ton of publicity with a profanity-laced interview he gave to WWL radio last Thursday, where he blasted President Bush and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco for not coming to rescue his city in time.

However, Nagin's most newsworthy comments - where he explained why he didn't use hundreds of city school buses to evacuate his city's flood victims - went almost unnoticed.

Turns out, Nagin turned his nose up at the yellow buses, demanding more comfortable Greyhound coaches instead.
"I need 500 buses, man," he told WWL. "One of the briefings we had they were talking about getting, you know, public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out of here."

Nagin described his response:

"I'm like - you've got to be kidding me. This is a natural disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

While Nagin was waiting for his Greyhound fleet, Katrina's floodwaters swamped his school buses, rendering them unusable.

Is there a link for this story?

less0305
09-08-2005, 09:11 PM
Is there a link for this story?

FWIW, I heard the actual broadcast that morning. He said it. That's an exact quote.

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:11 PM
Shoulda known. Can we please stay with Main stream media sources and leave the left and right wing publications to the Political Forum.

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:12 PM
FWIW, I heard the actual broadcast that morning. He said it. That's an exact quote.


"Turns out, Nagin turned his nose up at the yellow buses, demanding more comfortable Greyhound coaches instead."

That is an exact quote from who?

less0305
09-08-2005, 09:13 PM
Shoulda known. Can we please stay with Main stream media sources and leave the left and right wing publications to the Political Forum.

No, really...I heard it.

TexMex
09-08-2005, 09:13 PM
Shoulda known. Can we please stay with Main stream media sources and leave the left and right wing publications to the Political Forum.

Hi tybee

It's the mayor's own words on the radio :confused:

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:16 PM
Nagin, on the radio said he was turning his nose up on yellow school bus's?

concernedperson
09-08-2005, 09:18 PM
Shoulda known. Can we please stay with Main stream media sources and leave the left and right wing publications to the Political Forum.

Of course, I agree with this.I am just glad that Toby is hanging out and no repercussions and he is part and parcel to this recovery.We need these strong people in Louisiana right now. No expectations, Toby, just thought I would mention you as a person with a real big heart.Just looking in from Georgia.I am am always there for help.

Casshew
09-08-2005, 09:20 PM
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/8/114045.shtml

Turned up noses at school buses - see that link (not sure if it's legit news)

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:21 PM
Just as an example of how spin is used in that post. When Nagin called for greyhounds and bus's it was days after the Levee's broke. The yellow bus's in that photo had already been flooded. They were not available at that point. How is that Nagin turning his nose up at yellow bus's to get people out of the Convention Center?

If we start using Left and Right Wing links and spin on this its just going to turn into a big fat pissing match.

less0305
09-08-2005, 09:24 PM
"Turns out, Nagin turned his nose up at the yellow buses, demanding more comfortable Greyhound coaches instead."

That is an exact quote from who?

I'm only responding to the quotes of the Mayor. I heard the Mayor that morning - live, as it was happening, say the words in quotes that were listed in TexMex's post.

He said this exact thing:
"I need 500 buses, man. One of the briefings we had they were talking about getting, you know, public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out of here. I'm like - you've got to be kidding me. This is a natural disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

I wish we could get an exact transcript of that morning show - it was simultaneously broadcast on MSNBC, I believe, because I thought to myself, Oh boy, MSNBC is going to get fined for some of the language he used in his interview because there was no delay evidently and therefore no bleeping. I can try to research and see if there is a transcript of that phone interview.

less0305
09-08-2005, 09:27 PM
Just as an example of how spin is used in that post. When Nagin called for greyhounds and bus's it was days after the Levee's broke. The yellow bus's in that photo had already been flooded. They were not available at that point. How is that Nagin turning his nose up at yellow bus's to get people out of the Convention Center?

If we start using Left and Right Wing links and spin on this its just going to turn into a big fat pissing match.

Well, when I heard him say it and he was talking about information they were discussing in a briefing earlier that morning or in the middle of the night and evidently it sounded to me like someone suggested that they bring in school buses - and I took his words to mean, he felt as if school buses weren't what he wanted brought in....he wanted Greyhound buses brought in.

concernedperson
09-08-2005, 09:27 PM
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/9/8/114045.shtml

Turned up noses at school buses - see that link (not sure if it's legit news)I think he was looking at comfort but I can be dissicated, I am sure. So much that we don't know right now but it isn't that most of the world didn't recognize this it was a small part of the world that that chose to blame the victims for their misfortune. They go on and on.

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:28 PM
I know about the call for bus's and Nagins radio plea. That has been posted with MSM links on several threads. My point is posting links as news that are in reality opinion peices.

TexMex
09-08-2005, 09:28 PM
No, really...I heard it.



Here's the NYTimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspecial/02TEXT-NAGIN.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1126228752-CwL6gFVupnzoLqiwCRwVig

snip
WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.



---------------------
They talked about the buses in a meeting? And did not use them to get people from nursing homes or out of the housing projects before the storm....then they were underwater with all those people he sent to the Dome
needed help. And the Gov turns the Red Cross away from the Dome/Convention Center.......oh man

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:29 PM
Well, when I heard him say it and he was talking about information they were discussing in a briefing earlier that morning or in the middle of the night and evidently it sounded to me like someone suggested that they bring in school buses - and I took his words to mean, he felt as if school buses weren't what he wanted brought in....he wanted Greyhound buses brought in.


If you review it you will see that the school bus's were already flooded before the radio plea for greyhounds.

less0305
09-08-2005, 09:29 PM
Tex, thanks for finding a portion of the transcript. How do you do that so fast!!!!!?????

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:31 PM
Here's the NYTimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspecial/02TEXT-NAGIN.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1126228752-CwL6gFVupnzoLqiwCRwVig

snip
WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.



---------------------
They talked about the buses in a meeting? And did not use them to get people from nursing homes or out of the housing projects before the storm....then they were underwater with all those people he sent to the Dome
needed help. And the Gov turns the Red Cross away from the Dome/Convention Center.......oh man


And where are the Yellow School bus's and Nagin turning up his nose ?

less0305
09-08-2005, 09:31 PM
If you review it you will see that the school bus's were already flooded before the radio plea for greyhounds.

I understood him to mean someone suggested bringing in school buses and school bus drivers FROM OTHER AREAS and he said that was thinking small and he wanted Greyhounds. I don't think he was talking about his own daggone school buses.

JBean
09-08-2005, 09:32 PM
The emergency plans are to be made and ok'd before the hospital, nursing home etc. can get approval to operate, BUT on page 21 of the LA Emergency operations plan, it states that the state of Louisiana will "direct the evacuation and shelter of persons having limited mobility" including those in hospitals and nursing homes.

So, if I'm understanding correctly, the institution itself comes up with the plan, the state approves the plan before allowing the facility to open for business, and in case of an emergency, the state directs the evacuation and shelter of such places.

http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf
My sister said she believes that is correct

concernedperson
09-08-2005, 09:36 PM
Here's the NYTimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/02/national/nationalspecial/02TEXT-NAGIN.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1126228752-CwL6gFVupnzoLqiwCRwVig

snip
WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.



---------------------
They talked about the buses in a meeting? And did not use them to get people from nursing homes or out of the housing projects before the storm....then they were underwater with all those people he sent to the Dome
needed help. And the Gov turns the Red Cross away from the Dome/Convention Center.......oh man

I don't know but his plea was riveting to me and it was early on. The Super Dome was way above flood level...and I succinctly heard to bring your own food and water.He said it was a last resort. I don't know what other plans were enacted but I am sure about what I heard.

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:36 PM
I can totally comprehend the mayor was incompetent in not utilizing the School Bus's for evacuation pre hurricane. There is no excuse IMO. Every bus available should have been getting people out of town. Once they were flooded they were flooded and he needed a fleet of bus's to evac 50,000 people in the Superdome and Convention Center. One or two bus's wasnt going to do it.

At that point I dont think anyone would have cared what kind of bus came. It was a time of desperation.

TexMex
09-08-2005, 09:39 PM
And where are the Yellow School bus's and Nagin turning up his nose ?


What I posted was obviously an opinion piece

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin garnered a ton of publicity with a profanity-laced interview he gave to WWL radio last Thursday, where he blasted President Bush and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco for not coming to rescue his city in time.
However, Nagin's most newsworthy comments - where he explained why he didn't use hundreds of city school buses to evacuate his city's flood victims - went almost unnoticed.
Turns out, Nagin turned his nose up at the yellow buses, demanding more comfortable Greyhound coaches instead.

That part---opinion



This part----what Nagin said on WWL radio

"I need 500 buses, man," he told WWL. "One of the briefings we had they were talking about getting, you know, public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out of here."

Nagin described his response:

"I'm like - you've got to be kidding me. This is a natural disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

And the final

While Nagin was waiting for his Greyhound fleet, Katrina's floodwaters swamped his school buses, rendering them unusable.


Sorry if the spin bothered you. I just find his mentionng school buses ironic.

Tom'sGirl
09-08-2005, 09:39 PM
I understood him to mean someone suggested bringing in school buses and school bus drivers FROM OTHER AREAS and he said that was thinking small and he wanted Greyhounds. I don't think he was talking about his own daggone school buses.ANOTHER LINK:

Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses'

Transcript of radio interview with New Orleans' Nagin



Friday, September 2, 2005; Posted: 2:59 p.m. EDT (18:59 GMT)
SPECIAL REPORT

(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.

The following is a transcript of WWL correspondent Garland Robinette's interview with Nagin on Thursday night. Robinette asked the mayor about his conversation with President Bush:

SNIP:

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

READ AND LISTEN AT THIS LINK

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/ (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/)

less0305
09-08-2005, 09:40 PM
I can totally comprehend the incompetence of The Mayor in not utilizing the School Bus's for evacuation pre hurricane. There is no excuse IMO. Every bus available should have been getting people out of town. Once they were flooded they were flooded and he needed a fleet of bus's to evac 50,000 people in the Superdome and Convention Center.

Tybee....I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think when the mention of bringing school buses in from out of the area his response should have been "Great, bring em on and hey maybe contact Greyhound as well." Instead it was "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans. That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy." I'm really not arguing with you. I think we're thinking along the same lines. I just don't think he sounded like he appreciated the idea of bringing school buses in. :)

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:42 PM
What I posted was obviously an opinion piece

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin garnered a ton of publicity with a profanity-laced interview he gave to WWL radio last Thursday, where he blasted President Bush and Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco for not coming to rescue his city in time.
However, Nagin's most newsworthy comments - where he explained why he didn't use hundreds of city school buses to evacuate his city's flood victims - went almost unnoticed.
Turns out, Nagin turned his nose up at the yellow buses, demanding more comfortable Greyhound coaches instead.

That part---opinion



This part----what Nagin said on WWL radio

"I need 500 buses, man," he told WWL. "One of the briefings we had they were talking about getting, you know, public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out of here."

Nagin described his response:

"I'm like - you've got to be kidding me. This is a natural disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

And the final

While Nagin was waiting for his Greyhound fleet, Katrina's floodwaters swamped his school buses, rendering them unusable.


Sorry if the spin bothered you. I just find his mentionng school buses ironic.


Yes but it opens the door for others to bring in articles from political based partisan publications. Can you gather my point of what a nightmare this forum would be if everyone starts posting articles and opinion peices from non mainstream political media. We might as well shut the doors now.

tybee204
09-08-2005, 09:44 PM
Tybee....I agree wholeheartedly with you. I think when the mention of bringing school buses in from out of the area his response should have been "Great, bring em on and hey maybe contact Greyhound as well." Instead it was "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans. That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy." I'm really not arguing with you. I think we're thinking along the same lines. I just don't think he sounded like he appreciated the idea of bringing school buses in. :)

I think he was pleading for a large scale response. Days had passed and alot of people were dying. Everything was completley spinning out of control.

TexMex
09-08-2005, 09:47 PM
Yes but it opens the door for others to bring in articles from political based partisan publications. Can you gather my point of what a nightmare this forum would be if everyone starts posting articles and opinion peices from non mainstream political media. We might as well shut the doors now.


I hear you.

less0305
09-08-2005, 09:49 PM
I think he was pleading for a large scale response. Days had passed and alot of people were dying. Everything was completley spinning out of control.

It just came out sounding a little differently than that to me. I guess it's like everything else....it's how people interpret material whether it's spoken or written. I suppose every quote that's been put forth since the beginning of this can be interpretted "40 ways to Sunday" (as my grandma used to say - I don't know exactly how many that is, but it always sounded like a big number). ;)

TexMex
09-08-2005, 09:50 PM
Press Release
Date: 9/8/2005


Contact: Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037


U.S. DEFENSE DEPARTMENT FULLY FUNDS THE USE OF NATIONAL GUARD OPERATIONS IN LOUISIANA FOR HURRICANE RELIEF

In an extraordinary move, the U.S. Department of Defense has granted Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco’s request to federally fund the use of the National Guard in its support of Hurricane Katrina disaster relief efforts.

The action – granting Title 32 U.S. Code status retroactive to Aug. 29 – enables the 23,000 National Guard troops in Louisiana to remain under Governor Blanco’s command while retaining flexibility to conduct various missions. National Guard troops are almost always funded by their respective state and commanded by that state’s governor, or they are placed under the command of the President. Rarely are National Guard troops fully funded by the federal government while commanded by a governor.

“On behalf of Louisiana’s citizens, and especially the thirteen significantly impacted parishes, I want to thank President Bush for his swift and prudent decision which endorses and supports the critical mission of the National Guard troops under my command,” Governor Blanco said.

“Title 32 status affords our Guardsmen increased rights and protection,” Governor Blanco added. “Among them, they are eligible for the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA), which affords them the reemployment rights they richly and justly deserve. In addition, they will now have federal medical, disability, and other rights that are not permitted under State Active Duty.

“It is a testament to the federal government and our mutual commitment to teamwork that the U.S. Defense Department has approved the duty status that meets the needs of both the state and the National Guard.”

Governor Blanco said that this decision is an example of ways that the state of Louisiana and the federal government are working together to help the people of southeastern Louisiana recover from the devastation of Hurricane Katrina. “The National Guard has not hesitated to answer our call to service,” Governor Blanco said. “I am honored to be able to answer theirs.”
--------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like Blanco is in control of the Guard still. At least maybe the state and feds are starting to work together.


ETA add link

http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=1022

concernedperson
09-08-2005, 09:53 PM
Why am I not comforted?

kgeaux
09-08-2005, 10:25 PM
I understood him to mean someone suggested bringing in school buses and school bus drivers FROM OTHER AREAS and he said that was thinking small and he wanted Greyhounds. I don't think he was talking about his own daggone school buses.


This is true. Lafayette sent a convoy of school busses and they were turned around at the NO city limits. Got back to Lafayette, and then received word they could now enter new orleans. Some of the busses returned to New Orleans, those busses that were privately owned. (Our superintendent of schools had recinded his permission for the district owned busses to return to NO due to liability concerns.) Anyway, the privately owned busses head back to New Orleans, and guess what??? They got turned back AGAIN.

editing to add: Forgot to say they were turned around by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY. Sound familiar? Like what happened to the Red Cross?

kgeaux
09-08-2005, 10:27 PM
Just as an example of how spin is used in that post. When Nagin called for greyhounds and bus's it was days after the Levee's broke. The yellow bus's in that photo had already been flooded. They were not available at that point. How is that Nagin turning his nose up at yellow bus's to get people out of the Convention Center?

If we start using Left and Right Wing links and spin on this its just going to turn into a big fat pissing match.


And may I say that those of us in Louisiana have been privy to a great big old pissing match lately, and boy, we don't need to see another! :blowkiss:

tybee204
09-08-2005, 10:29 PM
None of it makes sense. Tonight there were 3 boys from Duke that drove straight in to the Convention Center and managed to bring some folks out. They said it took 20 minutes to get to the Convention Center from the Interstate. They took the folks to Baton Rouge , turned around and went and got some more folks.

concernedperson
09-08-2005, 10:37 PM
I posted a long time ago relative to this crisis a way to evacuate. The Hwy.90 route was not impeded. It landed someone in Houma and more routes northerly. Much of this was not mandatory as far as loss of human lives.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-08-2005, 11:05 PM
Press Release
Date: 9/8/2005


Contact: Denise Bottcher or Roderick Hawkins at 225-342-9037


U.S. DEFENSE DEPARTMENT FULLY FUNDS THE USE OF NATIONAL GUARD OPERATIONS IN LOUISIANA FOR HURRICANE RELIEF

In an extraordinary move, the U.S. Department of Defense has granted Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco’s request to federally fund the use of the National Guard in its support of Hurricane Katrina disaster relief efforts.

The action – granting Title 32 U.S. Code status retroactive to Aug. 29 – enables the 23,000 National Guard troops in Louisiana to remain under Governor Blanco’s command while retaining flexibility to conduct various missions. National Guard troops are almost always funded by their respective state and commanded by that state’s governor, or they are placed under the command of the President. Rarely are National Guard troops fully funded by the federal government while commanded by a governor.

“On behalf of Louisiana’s citizens, and especially the thirteen significantly impacted parishes, I want to thank President Bush for his swift and prudent decision which endorses and supports the critical mission of the National Guard troops under my command,” Governor Blanco said.

“Title 32 status affords our Guardsmen increased rights and protection,” Governor Blanco added. “Among them, they are eligible for the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA), which affords them the reemployment rights they richly and justly deserve. In addition, they will now have federal medical, disability, and other rights that are not permitted under State Active Duty.

“It is a testament to the federal government and our mutual commitment to teamwork that the U.S. Defense Department has approved the duty status that meets the needs of both the state and the National Guard.”

Governor Blanco said that this decision is an example of ways that the state of Louisiana and the federal government are working together to help the people of southeastern Louisiana recover from the devastation of Hurricane Katrina. “The National Guard has not hesitated to answer our call to service,” Governor Blanco said. “I am honored to be able to answer theirs.”
--------------------------------------------------------------

Sounds like Blanco is in control of the Guard still. At least maybe the state and feds are starting to work together.


ETA add link

http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=1022

I find that quite interesting. She is praising Bush, and she got what she was holding out for - complete control, not what they proposed, which was joint control.

And this is "unprecedented." A first.

Thanks, Tex :blowkiss:

kgeaux
09-09-2005, 08:36 AM
I find that quite interesting. She is praising Bush, and she got what she was holding out for - complete control, not what they proposed, which was joint control.

And this is "unprecedented." A first.

Thanks, Tex :blowkiss:

She got what she wanted, that's true. And only, oh, let's see, hmm, the counts not in yet, only "some" people had to suffer the indignity of being raped in public, only "some" had to live days without the basic necessities of life, only "some" were murdered......oh, I wonder if the cost to lives was worth her power struggle. To have such a person in "complete control" is scary indeed.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-09-2005, 09:22 AM
She got what she wanted, that's true. And only, oh, let's see, hmm, the counts not in yet, only "some" people had to suffer the indignity of being raped in public, only "some" had to live days without the basic necessities of life, only "some" were murdered......oh, I wonder if the cost to lives was worth her power struggle. To have such a person in "complete control" is scary indeed.

Re power struggle - and isn't her quote near the end a nice one, talking about how nice it is when the fed and State are working together. Awww, just warms my heart. What political spin. Puke. Both sides do it, not just one.

I never forget that you're writing all this when your state is in crisis. I feel sorry for your State with its leadership. I am sure there will be a lot of cleaning house, so to speak, in the future. I hope it will all be a vast improvement in the years to come....

kgeaux
09-09-2005, 11:22 AM
Re power struggle - and isn't her quote near the end a nice one, talking about how nice it is when the fed and State are working together. Awww, just warms my heart. What political spin. Puke. Both sides do it, not just one.

I never forget that you're writing all this when your state is in crisis. I feel sorry for your State with its leadership. I am sure there will be a lot of cleaning house, so to speak, in the future. I hope it will all be a vast improvement in the years to come....


You know, I about fell over when I read that quote. How she keeps a straight face is more than I can fathom.

I love Louisiana. And she (Louisiana) deserves better than this. I promise you, many people are now openly questioning Blanco's motives. I can't find anyone who is willing to admit that they voted for her! She is dead politically, and I hope our next leader is a person of integrity. It would be a first in Louisiana.

kgeaux
09-09-2005, 06:27 PM
http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3830028&nav=EyAzeLhP


Governor Blanco was a no show at a shelter in Rayne, Louisiana today. And evacuees were not happy.

SieSie
09-09-2005, 06:32 PM
http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3830028&nav=EyAzeLhP


Governor Blanco was a no show at a shelter in Rayne, Louisiana today. And evacuees were not happy.

Ooooh, I'd be pi$$ed, too!!!

As a glimmer of hope pulled into the parking lot, Governor Blanco is not on the bus, only her representatives.

"The governor wished she could be here," explains Connie Nelson, a Blanco representative.

"Here everybody's under the impression the Governor coming here and she's sending representatives," says one evacuee. "She's not here. It's nothing but lies and lies constantly. Enough is enough."

"I'm very disappointed because I feel like I'm being brushed away," says Dellihoue.
More at link http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3830028&nav=EyAzeLhP

Is she still governor?! What's taking so long getting her out of there?!?!?! :doh:

LovelyPigeon
09-09-2005, 07:19 PM
My husband is in Pascagoula/Moss Point, Mississippi cooking, serving, and delivering meals.

Today, the military brought in 2 tractor trailers, and dumped the contents on the ground. Used clothing for those in need.

And some old artificial Christmas trees in there. Winter coats. Prom dresses.

Just dumped it on the ground in piles for folks there to sort through, if there's anything there they can use. I feel sure no one needs one of the trees just yet. Or the winter clothes. Or the dress-ups clothes.

Then the military drove away.

What the hello?!

concernedperson
09-09-2005, 07:22 PM
You know, I about fell over when I read that quote. How she keeps a straight face is more than I can fathom.

I love Louisiana. And she (Louisiana) deserves better than this. I promise you, many people are now openly questioning Blanco's motives. I can't find anyone who is willing to admit that they voted for her! She is dead politically, and I hope our next leader is a person of integrity. It would be a first in Louisiana.
Shoot, I would move back just to vote for you!!!!!!Go, girl. You got my vote.

less0305
09-09-2005, 07:37 PM
http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=3830028&nav=EyAzeLhP


Governor Blanco was a no show at a shelter in Rayne, Louisiana today. And evacuees were not happy.

She and Nagin were celebrating the removal of Brown I suppose. Hey, it is a party town, get over it.

DEPUTYDAWG
09-09-2005, 09:01 PM
She and Nagin were celebrating the removal of Brown I suppose. Hey, it is a party town, get over it.


:laugh:

And since I still don't know how to do links :doh: , I can't post it, but after reading the article, I saw the other local headlines (down near the bottom left corner). There was one from Sen. Landrieu, title was something about blaming the government (go figure). In that article, there's a quote from her about "I'll be the first to take the blame," but then goes on to chide Bush and the feds. So I guess she's not taking MUCH of the blame.

But, the part that really caught my attention, was that the Senator supports the Governor (go figure) and said that Blanco and Barber (sp?) worked hard in the last year for evacuation plans in case of a hurricane.

I would LOVE to know just how much time she spent on this. We've already read that Blanco and Nagin admitted after Hurrican Ivan last summer, that the evac procedures for the poor, etc. needed much improvement. Just what exactly did they do to improve it during the last 12-14 months?

BillyGoatGruff
09-09-2005, 09:11 PM
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054719

Quote 1 NEW YORK Accompanying her husband, former President George
H.W.Bush, on a tour of hurricane relief centers in
Houston, Barbara Bush said today, referring to the
poor who had lost everything back home and evacuated, "This is working very well for them."

Quote 2 In a segment at the top of the show on the surge of
evacuees to the Texas city, Barbara Bush said: "Almost
everyone I’ve talked to says we're going to move to
Houston."

Then she added: "What I’m hearing which is sort of
scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is
so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."

more at link...
If you'd seen the level of poverty in NO, in the neighborhoods far removed the Quarter and the other tourist attractions, you'd agree that living in a clean, orderly, well-secured shleter like the Astro Dome and other shelters scattered throughout the US is a lot better than what they had. There's no way of describing how bad the projects were in NO, short of comapring them to the Bronx in the 1970s or the old Cabrini Green. Most of the poor were in NO not out of choice, but because they couldn't afford to leave. This might actually give some families that were trapped in the worst neighborhoods in NO a chance to actually make a real life for themselves elsewhere. Too bad it comes at the cost of the city of NO itself and untold human lives.