I'm so angry part 2

[chicoliving]

Continue here....


Link from part one

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28612


Edit by MK For Chico

[Ntegrity]

Next :woohoo:

[less0305]

Continue here....

Bless you Chico :woohoo:

[less0305]

Hmmmmm, do you think that ended everyone's angry thoughts? LOL

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Hmmmmm, do you think that ended everyone's angry thoughts? LOL


I'm going to take it personally...I replied to Dara, and then the thread got locked! (She must have read my dissertation from earlier and decided there just wasn't enough bandwidth ;) )

But THANK YOU Chico!

[concernedperson]

Hmmmmm, do you think that ended everyone's angry thoughts? LOL

Not mind. I still see babies who should be with their moms and I still see displaced persons all over the south.If you see a better scenario please share.Not slamming you but this isn't a picnic.

[less0305]

Not mind. I still see babies who should be with their moms and I still see displaced persons all over the south.If you see a better scenario please share.Not slamming you but this isn't a picnic.

Oh, my good grief. Like I meant anything by that. Yeah, I'm picnicking here.

[Beyond Belief]

Definitely not a picnic. Its hard to describe how something this huge affects everyone even if your not directly involved. It seems to have that numbing feeling.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Without naming names or agencies, ahem....today was an interesting day at work. Great people doing great work in assisting the evacuees...a dept that I am proud to work in/at, I'm proud to say they do a pretty bang-up job :woohoo:


AND YET....

some tensions flaring, peers that are normally great friends getting into some turf wars, etc. And my boss even didn't have a lot of patience with a citizen that had been TOLD to call him by the local Sheriff's Dept (can you say, passing the buck?!). :eek:

BUT...

all done to continue the day's work and on-going planning that has to be revised, etc. Manpower schedule revisions, equipment, communications, etc. :clap: Oh yeah, and "business as usual" work.

There's a lot of good going on in this tragedy.

[kgeaux]

This maybe doesn't belong in an "angry" thread, but I'm not sure it deserves its own thread. But like DeputyDawg says good things are happening!


There were 83 homes and 10 townhomes purchased in Lafayette by Friday of last week. Over the weekend, a very large international oil company purchased 20 plus homes to house their displaced employees.

Apartment complexes are waiving their usual fees to get displaced families in a home of their own.

4,000 children have registered in the Lafayette Parish School system by this afternoon at 4:30PM.

Record donations have been made to our local food bank, red cross donations are flowing in, the Salvation Army clothed about 2,000 individuals today! :dance:

I'm so touched by the outpouring of love for those in need.

[txsvicki]

I just read over in another forum that Barbara Bush said that since the survivors were already so poor, they are doing pretty well in the Astrodome. Does anyone know if this is true, if she really said that?

[concernedperson]

Yeah, that is true. just one more thing to deal with.

[KrazyKollector]

This maybe doesn't belong in an "angry" thread, but I'm not sure it deserves its own thread. But like DeputyDawg says good things are happening!


There were 83 homes and 10 townhomes purchased in Lafayette by Friday of last week. Over the weekend, a very large international oil company purchased 20 plus homes to house their displaced employees.

Apartment complexes are waiving their usual fees to get displaced families in a home of their own.

4,000 children have registered in the Lafayette Parish School system by this afternoon at 4:30PM.

Record donations have been made to our local food bank, red cross donations are flowing in, the Salvation Army clothed about 2,000 individuals today! :dance:

I'm so touched by the outpouring of love for those in need.Yea! Any sparkling of positive news is needed and cherished.
It's going to take a long time to pump all that water out of NO, but I heard the Mayor say he estimated that now only 60% of NO is under water.
More rescues today and more people who just refuse to leave.

And the prayers continue....

[Tom'sGirl]

I just read over in another forum that Barbara Bush said that since the survivors were already so poor, they are doing pretty well in the Astrodome. Does anyone know if this is true, if she really said that?I have no idea if she said that or not, BUT if she did I think I understand what she may have meant.

I sit out here in sunny Southern CA where even the poor kids have GameBoys and so forth. Even the poor have Cell Phones. In general even the poor are a spoiled lot and I didn't see that in the people that were rescused, they had nothing in most cases except each other and a T.V.

What Barbara may have meant IF she said that was that some had lived in such poor conditions and were a strong lot of individuals and could endure more than those who had much more.

I've been watching my local station and seeing small groups being flown in by private jet to Los Angeles where they will be housed at The Dream Center in Echo Park which was a former hospital (Queen of Angels). They expect to house approx. 300 by this weekend.

Already most of them don't want to go back (a few of the older ones do) one young guy said he felt like a Rock Star, so sad, he was so impressed with his new clothes and coming to California. Some actually think they could afford to live here, which of course they won't, it just breaks my heart.

Lets wait and see if Barbara did make that statement, and IF she did, I think I'll understand what she meant.

[Tom'sGirl]

This maybe doesn't belong in an "angry" thread, but I'm not sure it deserves its own thread. But like DeputyDawg says good things are happening!


There were 83 homes and 10 townhomes purchased in Lafayette by Friday of last week. Over the weekend, a very large international oil company purchased 20 plus homes to house their displaced employees.

Apartment complexes are waiving their usual fees to get displaced families in a home of their own.

4,000 children have registered in the Lafayette Parish School system by this afternoon at 4:30PM.

Record donations have been made to our local food bank, red cross donations are flowing in, the Salvation Army clothed about 2,000 individuals today! :dance:

I'm so touched by the outpouring of love for those in need.kgeaux, have you noticed how the towns that are taking in the evacuees are immediately getting the kids into schools? I think this is great!

They started placing the evacuated children in school out here today, and in San Diego I think they start next week. I think they're making sure all the kids have their immunitizations first and school clothes.

[KrazyKollector]

From what I've read so far, reading Drudge basically, she said it.
I have always been a fan of the plain spoken Momma Bush, but I think that this time, she caught a case of foot-in-mouth disease. I don't think she meant anything bad by it, but it just came out that way.
But, her DH is not President any longer so what she says doesn't hold a lot of "heavy" influence with me.

[Nova]

Without naming names or agencies, ahem....today was an interesting day at work. Great people doing great work in assisting the evacuees...a dept that I am proud to work in/at, I'm proud to say they do a pretty bang-up job :woohoo:


AND YET....

some tensions flaring, peers that are normally great friends getting into some turf wars, etc. And my boss even didn't have a lot of patience with a citizen that had been TOLD to call him by the local Sheriff's Dept (can you say, passing the buck?!). :eek:

BUT...

all done to continue the day's work and on-going planning that has to be revised, etc. Manpower schedule revisions, equipment, communications, etc. :clap: Oh yeah, and "business as usual" work.

There's a lot of good going on in this tragedy.

Deputy, I don't think anyone here doubts there is great heroism going on throughout the devastated regions. Many of the survivors have said as much.

It's the upper management we're faulting, not those who put their lives on the line.

[PrayersForMaura]

I am getting angrier the more and more I see that photo of all those school buses on that parking lot floodd to their roof tops. If the plan for the state was put into action, hundreds and maybe thousands of people could have been saved .... there were a LOT of buses on that lot ... what a waste. :mad:

[Details]

kgeaux, have you noticed how the towns that are taking in the evacuees are immediately getting the kids into schools? I think this is great!I wonder if the kids think the same thing...:laugh:

<whinykid>Geeze - you'd think having your school and entire city destroyed would get you more than just a week off from school! And they're even acting like they're being nice by shoving us back in to a new school! :p </whinykid>

[rollerbladr123]

From what I've read so far, reading Drudge basically, she said it.
I have always been a fan of the plain spoken Momma Bush, but I think that this time, she caught a case of foot-in-mouth disease. I don't think she meant anything bad by it, but it just came out that way.
But, her DH is not President any longer so what she says doesn't hold a lot of "heavy" influence with me.
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054719

Quote 1 NEW YORK Accompanying her husband, former President George
H.W.Bush, on a tour of hurricane relief centers in
Houston, Barbara Bush said today, referring to the
poor who had lost everything back home and evacuated, "This is working very well for them."

Quote 2 In a segment at the top of the show on the surge of
evacuees to the Texas city, Barbara Bush said: "Almost
everyone I’ve talked to says we're going to move to
Houston."

Then she added: "What I’m hearing which is sort of
scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is
so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them."

more at link...

[JBean]

I am getting angrier the more and more I see that photo of all those school buses on that parking lot floodd to their roof tops. If the plan for the state was put into action, hundreds and maybe thousands of people could have been saved .... there were a LOT of buses on that lot ... what a waste. :mad: you should be mad. according to my sister there were hundreds of unused buses that could have saved people with advanced planning at the local level.

[less0305]

you should be mad. according to my sister there were hundreds of unused buses that could have saved people with advanced planning at the local level.

And if they couldn't get people out before the storm....why weren't they moved so they could have been used AFTER the storm to get people out?? Who leaves their fleet of transportation like a sitting duck?? Now, some disasters I can understand, tornado, earthquake, etc. But it wasn't like the Mayor didn't see the hurricane coming for a few days. He made some mistakes obviously.

The president and federal agencies will be held accountable through the many, many investigations and congressional hearings to make sure of that. I doubt there will be any kind of formal review at the city and state levels...other than the possibility of being voted out in the next election.

[kgeaux]

kgeaux, have you noticed how the towns that are taking in the evacuees are immediately getting the kids into schools? I think this is great!

They started placing the evacuated children in school out here today, and in San Diego I think they start next week. I think they're making sure all the kids have their immunitizations first and school clothes.


Yes, the communities are really moving to try to bring some normalicy into the lives of these children. I don't think my district is even worried about immunizations at this point, those are required in every district in the state so I guess it's assumed that if they were in school in the NO area, the shots are up to date. We've got people giving uniforms out, too. Most of us had some to give, some people with more resources are able to purchase and donate brand new uniforms. A couple of families I know had kids with 5 uniforms and gave up 2. They've just made a commitment to wash uniforms more often, and pray for the displaced kids everytime they have to wash.

We've got some kids that have already started in classes, some will start today, and all by Monday. They are staggering and trying to fit in. School board is struggling to find enough text books, but we'll get it.

**As an aside: A school board member yesterday stated 4000 new registrations, the newspaper this morning is saying 2800! That's quite a little difference! I am wondering what is true!!

And if they couldn't get people out before the storm....why weren't they moved so they could have been used AFTER the storm to get people out?? Who leaves their fleet of transportation like a sitting duck?? Now, some disasters I can understand, tornado, earthquake, etc. But it wasn't like the Mayor didn't see the hurricane coming for a few days. He made some mistakes obviously.

The president and federal agencies will be held accountable through the many, many investigations and congressional hearings to make sure of that. I doubt there will be any kind of formal review at the city and state levels...other than the possibility of being voted out in the next election.


State and local responses are being investigated! No one is going to be able to sweep this under the rug.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Deputy, I don't think anyone here doubts there is great heroism going on throughout the devastated regions. Many of the survivors have said as much.

It's the upper management we're faulting, not those who put their lives on the line.


Hi Nova,

Actually I have never felt anyone was faulting the rescue workers themselves. Exactly the opposite. I posted that primarily for two reasons: 1) to show that even in one public service agency, there is great procedures, plans and staff, and yet confusion, tempers, opinions, still affect us everyday, without losing sight of the purpose; and 2) to give another kudos to any improvements/rescues and help given, no matter how small. I don't like losing sight of that. Guess I like reading/seeing the good, and like to mix it in with the negatives.

I look at this agency of 7,000+ as just a small community of our larger community of the US.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Our schools here in Central TX are having the evacuees show up in greater numbers on a daily basis. Today, my daughter's school will start with 2. Not a large number, but the kids at the HS made welcoming banners, etc. yesterday. That just gives me GOOD chills - can you imagine being one of the evacuees, having no normal or routine life that you knew, showing up to a new school with welcome banners, etc. hanging out in front for you? Awesome. :clap:

ETA: And kgeaux, you're right, why am I posting this on a "I am so angry" thread. Sorry to all :doh:

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Okay, back to being angry, to stay on topic, LOL

On Fox today, I think it was the Lt. Commander or similar for the Army National Guard being interviewed - and there was still confusion on who is in charge of them, the Governor or General Honore, if I heard it correctly. Did anyone else see this interview (about 6:40am CST)? What is it that's still not clear, who's in charge?

Ugh. :doh:

[TexMex]

And if they couldn't get people out before the storm....why weren't they moved so they could have been used AFTER the storm to get people out?? Who leaves their fleet of transportation like a sitting duck?? Now, some disasters I can understand, tornado, earthquake, etc. But it wasn't like the Mayor didn't see the hurricane coming for a few days. He made some mistakes obviously.

The president and federal agencies will be held accountable through the many, many investigations and congressional hearings to make sure of that. I doubt there will be any kind of formal review at the city and state levels...other than the possibility of being voted out in the next election.


The mayor was asked about the buses yesterday and had "no comment" :banghead:

[DEPUTYDAWG]

The mayor was asked about the buses yesterday and had "no comment" :banghead:

It'll be interesting to hear from City employees later - who was supposed to be driving the buses, etc. What were they told?

[JBean]

It'll be interesting to hear from City employees later - who was supposed to be driving the buses, etc. What were they told?I wonder if it says in that city plan who is supposed to man the buses? Surely they would have thought of that in advance? I will check the manual.

[less0305]

Okay, back to being angry, to stay on topic, LOL

On Fox today, I think it was the Lt. Commander or similar for the Army National Guard being interviewed - and there was still confusion on who is in charge of them, the Governor or General Honore, if I heard it correctly. Did anyone else see this interview (about 6:40am CST)? What is it that's still not clear, who's in charge?

Ugh. :doh:


Deputy....I heard that. I think it still has a little something to do with maybe the Governor still hasn't signed executive orders allowing the federal government to take charge. So I think the State National Guard troops are still under command of the Governor. I'm not sure I have that right, but that was my thinking anyway.

Speaking of being angry and ridiculous comments:

Did you hear the Mayor's comment regarding sending police officers on vacation (many of whom are "reportedly" not wanting to go anyway)? Britt Hume asked him how he could justify sending law enforcement on a mandatory vacation when there are still people to rescue and much work to be done - Mayor Nagin said these words... "This is a party city. Get over it."

Loved that one!!

And another thing I wondered if anyone saw....

Last night on MSNBC show Oberman (I believe it was) he does a "Worse, Worser, Worst" segment or monologue and he gave the "Worst" award to Geraldo Rivera because it is claimed that Geraldo staged some footage of him helping "rescue" a woman and her dog. Said the scene was set up and filmed and then filmed again because something wasn't right with the first shot. By the way, Michael Jackson was the "worser" award. I can't remember who was the "worse."

[Dara]

CNN has reported that last night on Capitol Hill a "contentious closed door meeting" took place. They said a steady stream of Republicans and Democrats ripped into the federal government's response. And Michael Chertoff said conditions in the SuperDome weren't as bad as reported, despite, CNN pointed out, the images that were reported over and over. His comments were not well received.

I guess he didn't read the headlines (imaginary headlines (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2005/09/06/chertoff-i-remember-on-_n_6925.html)?) in the newspaper about that.

It's nice to know in a national disaster, the man in charge of Homeland Security will blame state and local government for not telling him how bad things were while they were going on and then later, claiming they weren't as bad (thought he didn't know) as is being widely reported.

Kind of explains the stories of fireman sitting around and not being properly allocated while victims are still waiting for help.

[TexMex]

It'll be interesting to hear from City employees later - who was supposed to be driving the buses, etc. What were they told?


Article from The Telegraph (UK)




Consider the signature image of the flood: an aerial shot of 255 school buses neatly parked at one city lot, their fuel tanks leaking gasoline into the urban lake. An enterprising blogger, Bryan Preston, worked out that each bus had 66 seats, which meant that the vehicles at just that one lot could have ferried out 16,830 people. Instead of entrusting its most vulnerable citizens to the gang-infested faecal hell of the Superdome, New Orleans had more than enough municipal transport on hand to have got almost everyone out in a couple of runs last Sunday.

Why didn't they? Well, the mayor didn't give the order. OK, but how about school board officials, or the fellows with the public schools transportation department, or the guy who runs that motor pool, or the individual bus drivers? If it ever occurred to any of them that these were potentially useful evacuation assets, they kept it to themselves.

So the first school bus to escape New Orleans and make it to safety in Texas was one that had been abandoned on a city street. A party of sodden citizens, ranging from the elderly to an eight-day-old baby, were desperate to get out, hopped aboard and got teenager Jabbor Gibson to drive them 13 hours non-stop to Houston. He'd never driven a bus before, and the authorities back in New Orleans may yet prosecute him. For rescuing people without a permit?
__________________


Morning Dawg

[TexMex]

CNN has reported that last night on Capitol Hill a "contentious closed door meeting" took place. They said a steady stream of Republicans and Democrats ripped into the federal government's response. And Michael Chertoff said conditions in the SuperDome weren't as bad as reported, despite, CNN pointed out, the images that were reported over and over. His comments were not well received.

I guess he didn't read the headlines (imaginary headlines (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2005/09/06/chertoff-i-remember-on-_n_6925.html)?) in the newspaper about that.

It's nice to know in a national disaster, the man in charge of Homeland Security will blame state and local government for not telling him how bad things were while they were going on and then later, claiming they weren't as bad (thought he didn't know) as is being widely reported.

Kind of explains the stories of fireman sitting around and not being properly allocated while victims are still waiting for help.


The mayor pointed out yesterday that as bad as things were at the Dome at least the majority of people there are alive. Those that refused evacuation--the majority are dead.

[PrayersForMaura]

Article from The Telegraph (UK)




Consider the signature image of the flood: an aerial shot of 255 school buses neatly parked at one city lot, their fuel tanks leaking gasoline into the urban lake. An enterprising blogger, Bryan Preston, worked out that each bus had 66 seats, which meant that the vehicles at just that one lot could have ferried out 16,830 people. Instead of entrusting its most vulnerable citizens to the gang-infested faecal hell of the Superdome, New Orleans had more than enough municipal transport on hand to have got almost everyone out in a couple of runs last Sunday.

Why didn't they? Well, the mayor didn't give the order. OK, but how about school board officials, or the fellows with the public schools transportation department, or the guy who runs that motor pool, or the individual bus drivers? If it ever occurred to any of them that these were potentially useful evacuation assets, they kept it to themselves.

So the first school bus to escape New Orleans and make it to safety in Texas was one that had been abandoned on a city street. A party of sodden citizens, ranging from the elderly to an eight-day-old baby, were desperate to get out, hopped aboard and got teenager Jabbor Gibson to drive them 13 hours non-stop to Houston. He'd never driven a bus before, and the authorities back in New Orleans may yet prosecute him. For rescuing people without a permit?
__________________


Morning Dawg
wow, 16,830 people. what a damn shame.

thanks for posting this.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I wonder if it says in that city plan who is supposed to man the buses? Surely they would have thought of that in advance? I will check the manual.


Surely!!! But were they properly trained, were they properly communicated to in the days leading up to the hurricane? Surely (!) they were given direct instruction as to who would be doing what. Or did they all just abandon their duties? I'd like to hear whose direction they took. To me, the bus situation should be one of the easiest ones to get to the bottom of...what WAS the plan? Did they go out into the neighborhoods in the days leading up to it and try to rescue those who didn't have the means to evacuate themselves? We get conflicting info on that, yes they did, no they didn't. ;)

[Dara]

The mayor pointed out yesterday that as bad as things were at the Dome at least the majority of people there are alive. Those that refused evacuation--the majority are dead.
That is true. That is also quite different than saying things were not as bad as was and is being reported, as Chertoff did. It's damage control. Thank goodness it sounds like his audience was not interested in revisionist history and excuses.

[PrayersForMaura]

Surely!!! But were they properly trained, were they properly communicated to in the days leading up to the hurricane? Surely (!) they were given direct instruction as to who would be doing what. Or did they all just abandon their duties? I'd like to hear whose direction they took. To me, the bus situation should be one of the easiest ones to get to the bottom of...what WAS the plan? Did they go out into the neighborhoods in the days leading up to it and try to rescue those who didn't have the means to evacuate themselves? We get conflicting info on that, yes they did, no they didn't. ;)yeah, we may never know the truth. :(

Just like the story I read the other day about the police officers abandoning their duties and not showing up either. What's the truth behind that? :(

a lot of people failed to do their jobs and let a lot of people down. luckily there were so many others who DID their jobs.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Deputy....I heard that. I think it still has a little something to do with maybe the Governor still hasn't signed executive orders allowing the federal government to take charge. So I think the State National Guard troops are still under command of the Governor. I'm not sure I have that right, but that was my thinking anyway.

Speaking of being angry and ridiculous comments:

Did you hear the Mayor's comment regarding sending police officers on vacation (many of whom are "reportedly" not wanting to go anyway)? Britt Hume asked him how he could justify sending law enforcement on a mandatory vacation when there are still people to rescue and much work to be done - Mayor Nagin said these words... "This is a party city. Get over it."

Loved that one!!

And another thing I wondered if anyone saw....

Last night on MSNBC show Oberman (I believe it was) he does a "Worse, Worser, Worst" segment or monologue and he gave the "Worst" award to Geraldo Rivera because it is claimed that Geraldo staged some footage of him helping "rescue" a woman and her dog. Said the scene was set up and filmed and then filmed again because something wasn't right with the first shot. By the way, Michael Jackson was the "worser" award. I can't remember who was the "worse."

Less, you're killing me. Interesting, but sad quotes. It is no longer a party city. Get over it? Oh my.

And I'm glad you saw that Fox interview as well. So, we're all angry about the right hand not talking to the left hand in the first 24-48 hours of this disaster. But here, over a week later, there is STILL confusion over who is in charge of the different Guard units? I just don't understand. And yes, shouldn't or can't Bush step in and stop the power struggles or whatever? :doh: I know I don't know all the story and the behind the scenes actions...but DANG!

[JBean]

Surely!!! But were they properly trained, were they properly communicated to in the days leading up to the hurricane? Surely (!) they were given direct instruction as to who would be doing what. Or did they all just abandon their duties? I'd like to hear whose direction they took. To me, the bus situation should be one of the easiest ones to get to the bottom of...what WAS the plan? Did they go out into the neighborhoods in the days leading up to it and try to rescue those who didn't have the means to evacuate themselves? We get conflicting info on that, yes they did, no they didn't. ;)This is the part I just cannot get passed. Officials of the city and state knew the potential for danger for their own people, yet it seems almost as if they did nothing. I just cannot reconcile this in my head. IT's like me not fending for my own family and just assuming the locals will pick up the slack for me. It's just outrageous.

[TexMex]

That is true. That is also quite different than saying things were not as bad as was and is being reported, as Chertoff did. It's damage control. Thank goodness it sounds like his audience was not interested in revisionist history and excuses.


But who told those people to go to the Dome, bring their OWN food and water---then LEFT them there without generators, police protection or even water. I believe it was the Mayor. He put them there. He knew they were there. Did he visit the Dome, post flood? Did he do a damn thing to help them?
Talk about damage control. What happened to those folks should haunt him every night. He could have put them all on buses Sunday--before the Hurricane hit. :doh:

[Dara]

But who told those people to go to the Dome, bring their OWN food and water---then LEFT them there without generators, police protection or even water. I believe it was the Mayor. He put them there. He knew they were there. Did he visit the Dome, post flood? Did he do a damn thing to help them?
Talk about damage control. What happened to those folks should haunt him every night. He could have put them all on buses Sunday--before the Hurricane hit. :doh:
Chertoff went into a meeting and tried to downplay the situation. Perhaps he still is uninformed. Perhaps he lied. I am concerned with his statement.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

This is the part I just cannot get passed. Officials of the city and state knew the potential for danger for their own people, yet it seems almost as if they did nothing. I just cannot reconcile this in my head. IT's like me not fending for my own family and just assuming the locals will pick up the slack for me. It's just outrageous.

Me either. And if I were in the City or local gov't as a leader (any of them, not just the Mayor -who is the City's Emergency Operations Planner or ?, by the way, where has he/she been?)...I think those pictures of those 216 +/- buses flooded in that lot, would and should bring me nightmares for many, many years to come. AND THEY HAD DAYS OF ADVANCE WARNING!!! It's not like an earthquake situation. :doh:

[TexMex]

This is the part I just cannot get passed. Officials of the city and state knew the potential for danger for their own people, yet it seems almost as if they did nothing. I just cannot reconcile this in my head. IT's like me not fending for my own family and just assuming the locals will pick up the slack for me. It's just outrageous.

It really is....they knew this was the Big One on Sat. Bush had to call the Gov
and talk her into a mandatory evacuation which was ordered Sunday. It's not like the mayor and Gov had no knowledge of what they were facing

WSJ:

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his/her emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected. :doh:
__________________

[JBean]

It really is....they knew this was the Big One on Sat. Bush had to call the Gov
and talk her into a mandatory evacuation which was ordered Sunday. It's not like the mayor and Gov had no knowledge of what they were facing

WSJ:

The primary responsibility for dealing with emergencies does not belong to the federal government. It belongs to local and state officials who are charged by law with the management of the crucial first response to disasters. First response should be carried out by local and state emergency personnel under the supervision of the state governor and his/her emergency operations center.

The actions and inactions of Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin are a national disgrace due to their failure to implement the previously established evacuation plans of the state and city. Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin cannot claim that they were surprised by the extent of the damage and the need to evacuate so many people. Detailed written plans were already in place to evacuate more than a million people. The plans projected that 300,000 people would need transportation in the event of a hurricane like Katrina. If the plans had been implemented, thousands of lives would likely have been saved.

In addition to the plans, local, state and federal officials held a simulated hurricane drill 13 months ago, in which widespread flooding supposedly trapped 300,000 people inside New Orleans. The exercise simulated the evacuation of more than a million residents. The problems identified in the simulation apparently were not solved.

A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected. :doh:
__________________I posted early on that my sister ,who is an expert in disaster relief, said it is up to the city and state officials to provide first line defense for it's citizens,with a goal of 72 hours. Set up it's citizens with pre-planning to hold down the fort til the big guns arrive. In this case, it just seems they ran for cover leaving evryne to wait for FEMA and/or fend for themselves. Worst of it being, the local govt knew exactly what would happen to these people!
The argument that the president should have overidden that mayor is an interesting one. Interesting, because they only way the President will do that is based on information he is given. That information is supplied to him by the GOVERNOR!

[Marstan]

I received this today via email. Kinda hits where it hurts.

Subject: Katrina Reveals the True Sides of People


An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the
Welfare state
by Robert Tracinsk

It has taken four long days for state and federal officials to figure out
how to deal with the disaster in New Orleans. I can't blame them, because it
has also taken me four long days to figure out what is going on there. The
reason is that the events there make no sense if you think that we are
confronting a natural disaster.

If this is just a natural disaster, the response for public officials is
obvious: you bring in food, water, and doctors; you send transportation to
evacuate refugees to temporary shelters; you send engineers to stop the
flooding and rebuild the city's infrastructure. For journalists, natural
disasters also have a familiar pattern: the heroism of ordinary people
pulling together to survive; the hard work and dedication of doctors,
nurses, and rescue workers; the steps being taken to clean up and rebuild.

Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do
is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are
suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not
expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about
rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.

The man-made disaster is not an inadequate or incompetent response by
federal relief agencies, and it was not directly caused by Hurricane
Katrina. This is where just about every newspaper and television channel has
gotten the story wrong.

The man-made disaster we are now witnessing in New Orleans did not happen
over the past four days. It happened over the past four decades. Hurricane
Katrina merely exposed it to public view.

The man-made disaster is the welfare state.

For the past few days, I have found the news from New Orleans to be
confusing. People were not behaving as you would expect them to behave in an
emergency--indeed, they were not behaving as they have behaved in other
emergencies. That is what has shocked so many people: they have been saying
that this is not what we expect from America. In fact, it is not even what
we expect from a Third World country.

When confronted with a disaster, people usually rise to the occasion. They
work together to rescue people in danger, and they spontaneously organize to
keep order and solve problems. This is especially true in America. We are an
enterprising people, used to relying on our own initiative rather than
waiting around for the government to take care of us. I have seen this a
hundred times, in small examples (a small town whose main traffic light had
gone out, causing ordinary citizens to get out of their cars and serve as
impromptu traffic cops, directing cars through the intersection) and large
ones (the spontaneous response of New Yorkers to September 11).

So what explains the chaos in New Orleans?

To give you an idea of the magnitude of what is going on, here is a
description from a Washington Times story:

"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives
and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and
rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.

"The plea from Mayor C. Ray Nagin came even as National Guardsmen poured in
to restore order and stop the looting, carjackings and gunfire....

"Last night, Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco said 300 Iraq-hardened Arkansas
National Guard members were inside New Orleans with shoot-to-kill orders.

" 'These troops are...under my orders to restore order in the streets,' she
said. 'They have M-16s, and they are locked and loaded. These troops know
how to shoot and kill and they are more than willing to do so if necessary
and I expect they will.' "

The reference to Iraq is eerie. The photo that accompanies this article
shows National Guard troops, with rifles and armored vests, riding on an
armored vehicle through trash-strewn streets lined by a rabble of squalid,
listless people, one of whom appears to be yelling at them. It looks exactly
like a scene from Sadr City in Baghdad.

What explains bands of thugs using a natural disaster as an excuse for an
orgy of looting, armed robbery, and rape? What causes unruly mobs to storm
the very buses that have arrived to evacuate them, causing the drivers to
drive away, frightened for their lives? What causes people to attack the
doctors trying to treat patients at the Super Dome?

Why are people responding to natural destruction by causing further
destruction? Why are they attacking the people who are trying to help them?

My wife, Sherri, figured it out first, and she figured it out on a
sense-of-life level. While watching the coverage last night on Fox News
Channel, she told me that she was getting a familiar feeling. She studied
architecture at the Illinois Institute of Chicago, which is located in the
South Side of Chicago just blocks away from the Robert Taylor Homes, one of
the largest high-rise public housing projects in America. "The projects," as
they were known, were infamous for uncontrollable crime and irremediable
squalor. (They have since, mercifully, been demolished.)

What Sherri was getting from last night's television coverage was a whiff of
the sense of life of "the projects." Then the "crawl"--the informational
phrases flashed at the bottom of the screen on most news channels--gave some
vital statistics to confirm this sense: 75% of the residents of New Orleans
had already evacuated before the hurricane, and of the 300,000 or so who
remained, a large number were from the city's public housing projects. Jack
Wakeland then gave me an additional, crucial fact: early reports from CNN
and Fox indicated that the city had no plan for evacuating all of the
prisoners in the city's jails--so they just let many of them loose. There is
no doubt a significant overlap between these two populations--that is, a
large number of people in the jails used to live in the housing projects,
and vice versa.

There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the
deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two
groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over
decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The
welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration
of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.

All of this is related, incidentally, to the apparent incompetence of the
city government, which failed to plan for a total evacuation of the city,
despite the knowledge that this might be necessary. But in a city corrupted
by the welfare state, the job of city officials is to ensure the flow of
handouts to welfare recipients and patronage to political supporters--not to
ensure a lawful, orderly evacuation in case of emergency.

No one has really reported this story, as far as I can tell. In fact, some
are already actively distorting it, blaming President Bush, for example, for
failing to personally ensure that the Mayor of New Orleans had drafted an
adequate evacuation plan. The worst example is an execrable piece from the
Toronto Globe and Mail, by a supercilious Canadian who blames the chaos on
American "individualism." But the truth is precisely the opposite: the chaos
was caused by a system that was the exact opposite of individualism.

What Hurricane Katrina exposed was the psychological consequences of the
welfare state. What we consider "normal" behavior in an emergency is
behavior that is normal for people who have values and take the
responsibility to pursue and protect them. People with values respond to a
disaster by fighting against it and doing whatever it takes to overcome the
difficulties they face. They don't sit around and complain that the
government hasn't taken care of them. They don't use the chaos of a disaster
as an opportunity to prey on their fellow men.

But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving
their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do
they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are
going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do
they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way
of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and
encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that
has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005

[DEPUTYDAWG]

It really is....they knew this was the Big One on Sat. Bush had to call the Gov
and talk her into a mandatory evacuation which was ordered Sunday. It's not like the mayor and Gov had no knowledge of what they were facing


A year ago, as Hurricane Ivan approached, New Orleans ordered an evacuation but did not use city or school buses to help people evacuate. As a result many of the poorest citizens were unable to evacuate. Fortunately, the hurricane changed course and did not hit New Orleans, but both Gov. Blanco and Mayor Nagin acknowledged the need for a better evacuation plan. Again, they did not take corrective actions. In 1998, during a threat by Hurricane George, 14,000 people were sent to the Superdome and theft and vandalism were rampant due to inadequate security. Again, these problems were not corrected. :doh:
__________________


(Hiya Tex, didn't mean to pass over your greeting earlier...)

The part you bolded, is very telling and disturbing re local and State. And IIRC, Dara's articles about Hurricane Pam (a mock study, or something similar?) from June, 04, done by the feds. Okay, so we had the feds doing a mock study, which showed actions needed to be taken; we've got real life Hurricane Ivan and the piss-poor job actually done by the locals and State. All 3 levels had over a year to be working to improve this. I'd love to know what actions, at all 3 levels, had been taken during the last 12-14 months....

[TexMex]

CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH?
Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 shows:

Blame Game -- 13% said George W. Bush is "most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane"; 18% said "federal agencies"; 25% said "state and local officials"; 38% said "no one is to blame"; 6% had no opinion. -- 29% said that "top officials in the federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired"; 63% said they should not; 8% had no opinion.

MORE

Government Performance -- 10% said George W. Bush has done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 25% said "good"; 21% said "neither good nor bad"; 18% said "bad"; 24% said "terrible"; 2% had no opinion. -- 8% said federal government agencies responsible for handling emergencies have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 27% said "good"; 20% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 22% said "terrible"; 3% had no opinion. -- 7% said state and local officials in Louisiana have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 30% said "good"; 23% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 15% said "terrible"; 5% had no opinion.

[KrazyKollector]

But who told those people to go to the Dome, bring their OWN food and water---then LEFT them there without generators, police protection or even water. I believe it was the Mayor. He put them there. He knew they were there. Did he visit the Dome, post flood? Did he do a damn thing to help them?
Talk about damage control. What happened to those folks should haunt him every night. He could have put them all on buses Sunday--before the Hurricane hit. :doh:Where was the mayor when Katrina hit? Not at the Dome, that's for sure.

He had a disaster plan and didn't follow it. Same at the State level.
A lot will come out in the weeks to come. Sadly, for many, it won't all be against the current President. :rolleyes:
http://www.cnsnews.com/ThisHour.asp#Louisiana%20Officials%20Could%20Lose% 20the%20Katrina%20Blame%20Game

[DEPUTYDAWG]

I received this today via email. Kinda hits where it hurts.

Subject: Katrina Reveals the True Sides of People


An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the
Welfare state
by Robert Tracinsk



Wow, good article. Yep, it hurts.

[marrigotti]

Great article, Marstan.

[BarnGoddess]

Marsten, that article is exactly what I have said on threads here. I would go back further and look at Gov. Huey P. Long who created a lot of the welfare system there.

[Ntegrity]

Marstan, that's a fabulous article. Thanks so much for sharing. A few of us who dared to say basically the same thing were called RACISTS (yes, in capital letters!).

[Dara]

Michael Brown's job is safe. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/09/07/national/w095209D05.DTL)

And apparently nothing went wrong last week.

At a news conference, Pelosi, D-Calif., said Bush's choice for head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency had "absolutely no credentials."

She related that she had urged Bush at the White House on Tuesday to fire Michael Brown.

"He said 'Why would I do that?'" Pelosi said.

"'I said because of all that went wrong, of all that didn't go right last week.' And he said 'What didn't go right?'"

"Oblivious, in denial, dangerous," she added.

[nanandjim]

Marstan, that's a fabulous article. Thanks so much for sharing. A few of us who dared to say basically the same thing were called RACISTS (yes, in capital letters!).
Ditto. It's amazing how the press and others are so afraid to show and tell the real facts--for fear of being call RACISTS...

[JBean]

Right on as usual Marstan.

[Details]

I received this today via email. Kinda hits where it hurts.

Subject: Katrina Reveals the True Sides of People


An Unnatural Disaster: A Hurricane Exposes the Man-Made Disaster of the
Welfare state
by Robert Tracinsk
...
Public officials did not expect that the first thing they would have to do
is to send thousands of armed troops in armored vehicle, as if they are
suppressing an enemy insurgency. And journalists--myself included--did not
expect that the story would not be about rain, wind, and flooding, but about
rape, murder, and looting.

But this is not a natural disaster. It is a man-made disaster.
...
"Storm victims are raped and beaten; fights erupt with flying fists, knives
and guns; fires are breaking out; corpses litter the streets; and police and
rescue helicopters are repeatedly fired on.
...
There were many decent, innocent people trapped in New Orleans when the
deluge hit--but they were trapped alongside large numbers of people from two
groups: criminals--and wards of the welfare state, people selected, over
decades, for their lack of initiative and self-induced helplessness. The
welfare wards were a mass of sheep--on whom the incompetent administration
of New Orleans unleashed a pack of wolves.
...
But what about criminals and welfare parasites? Do they worry about saving
their houses and property? They don't, because they don't own anything. Do
they worry about what is going to happen to their businesses or how they are
going to make a living? They never worried about those things before. Do
they worry about crime and looting? But living off of stolen wealth is a way
of life for them.

The welfare state--and the brutish, uncivilized mentality it sustains and
encourages--is the man-made disaster that explains the moral ugliness that
has swamped New Orleans. And that is the story that no one is reporting.

Source: TIA Daily -- September 2, 2005I think at long last I have my explanation for why New Orleans was so different from every other disaster, why people there reacted as they did. I'd thought every city had gotten rid of the projects - they'd found that it didn't work - you put together a bunch of people already having problems, and they just magnify each other's problems, make it harder to get off welfare, out of poverty, build a culture that is toxic and harmful to everyone in it or exposed to it. :(

[Details]

But I still can't believe that they sank so low as to rape children and women, and that the entire crowd in the Superbowl didn't spontaneously arise to stop it immediately.

[Ntegrity]

But I still can't believe that they sank so low as to rape children and women, and that the entire crowd in the Superbowl didn't spontaneously arise to stop it immediately.
Some did. Like the 10 or so men who used vigilante justice against the rapist and murderer of a 7 year-old girl. I applaud them.

[Details]

Some did. Like the 10 or so men who used vigilante justice against the rapist and murderer of a 7 year-old girl. I applaud them.So do I - but why wait until after the rape and murder? The superbowl was full, so other people at least had to be around while that was happening. And there were many others.

[Tom'sGirl]

you should be mad. according to my sister there were hundreds of unused buses that could have saved people with advanced planning at the local level.
I think in the beginning I heard they had 250 school buses that were on hand, and no order was sent to the bus drivers to report even though they would have received over-time pay!

[Tom'sGirl]

Deputy....I heard that. I think it still has a little something to do with maybe the Governor still hasn't signed executive orders allowing the federal government to take charge. So I think the State National Guard troops are still under command of the Governor. I'm not sure I have that right, but that was my thinking anyway.

Speaking of being angry and ridiculous comments:

Did you hear the Mayor's comment regarding sending police officers on vacation (many of whom are "reportedly" not wanting to go anyway)? Britt Hume asked him how he could justify sending law enforcement on a mandatory vacation when there are still people to rescue and much work to be done - Mayor Nagin said these words... "This is a party city. Get over it."

Loved that one!!

And another thing I wondered if anyone saw....

Last night on MSNBC show Oberman (I believe it was) he does a "Worse, Worser, Worst" segment or monologue and he gave the "Worst" award to Geraldo Rivera because it is claimed that Geraldo staged some footage of him helping "rescue" a woman and her dog. Said the scene was set up and filmed and then filmed again because something wasn't right with the first shot. By the way, Michael Jackson was the "worser" award. I can't remember who was the "worse."
Did you hear the Mayor (think it was Sunday) during an interview say something to the effect of this being "the cleansing of New Orleans" ? He also said he hoped when some of the people returned they would be better citizens.......or somthing like that!

My mouth full of coffee almost fell open.

[concernedperson]

Did you hear the Mayor (think it was Sunday) during an interview say something to the effect of this being "the cleansing of New Orleans" ? He also said he hoped when some of the people returned they would be better citizens.......or somthing like that!

My mouth full of coffee almost fell open.

I am not so sure that you aren't correct. I didn't hear that but something is up.I can't believe the stalling at all points, the local, the state,the fed, most I am sure is politics as usual but it is pretty upsetting for those in the path of this unbelievable disaster.

[Tom'sGirl]

I wonder if the kids think the same thing...:laugh:

<whinykid>Geeze - you'd think having your school and entire city destroyed would get you more than just a week off from school! And they're even acting like they're being nice by shoving us back in to a new school! :p </whinykid>You're right Details, they probably aren't all that happy :D and the schools they'll be going to will be so different from those they were used to.

At least it will give their parents/families a few hours a day to try and sort out what they are going to do without having to care for their kids at the same time.

[cynder]

I think in the beginning I heard they had 250 school buses that were on hand, and no order was sent to the bus drivers to report even though they would have received over-time pay!
Where would they have taken these people? Remember these would have been indigents, nursing home residents, elderly, sick, disabled, mixed with families, children and NONE of them with money or a place to go. Roads clogged with traffic, Superdome full to bursting, Baton Rouge filled to overflow. Were they just to park them on the side of the road somewhere north of New Orleans? Where was FEMA with shelters and coordinating with other states? Why was the Red Cross denied access? Where were the people to go to be collected? Were there sufficient securiy persons on hand to supervise this busing? You can't just expect folks to calmly load on buses - look at the mess at the Superdome...at the Convention Center. Before the storm FEMA was nowhere, Nat'l Guard was nowhere, aid workers were positioned far outside the storm area. For all we know as many people could have been killed in the riots and violence inherant in an uncontrollable rush to board these buses as drowned later.
It's easy to say that 250 buses sat unused - people forget that it would have been a huge logistical undertaking with few good answers - more people at the Superdome? Convention Center? Hospitals? Busloads of people with nowhere to go? Since "help" took literally DAYS to arrive would the evacuation of MORE people have meant more deaths in the so-called shelters?
No matter how you look at this leadership was lacking, help was lacking, preparation was lacking - and on EVERYONE's part. Ultimately though, it is FEMA who bears the brunt of the responsibility and FEMA who was out of touch and unresponsive. Evacuating a million people should not be left to the Mayor or even the Gov to handle alone without significant National Agency support, No city, no state has those kinds of resources.

[marrigotti]

Did you hear the Mayor (think it was Sunday) during an interview say something to the effect of this being "the cleansing of New Orleans" ? He also said he hoped when some of the people returned they would be better citizens.......or somthing like that!

My mouth full of coffee almost fell open.

It was not the mayor. It was the President of the City Council.

Here is the article.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/sep/05090111.html

[PrayersForMaura]

Now I am so angry about the 20 to 30 bodies found in the nursing home.

What the heck failed them there??

[Casshew]

Now I am so angry about the 20 to 30 bodies found in the nursing home.

What the heck failed them there??
Me too. :furious:

There is no need for anything like this to happen. It is obscene.

I want to know if this is a private or state run nursing home, who was responsible for these residents??

[Tom'sGirl]

It was not the mayor. It was the President of the City Council.

Here is the article.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/sep/05090111.htmlThanks for that link, there also have been some religious leaders there who have mentioned the "cleansing", but it was Mayor Nagin that also brought it up along with hoping for better citizens and so forth.

[PrayersForMaura]

Here's the story ... http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/07/katrina.impact/index.html

Casshew, I'm with you. This is obscene

[cynder]

Now I am so angry about the 20 to 30 bodies found in the nursing home. What the heck failed them there??
What failed was the caretakers. When they were told to evacuate their patients they did not. When the waters rose the caretakers abandoned the patients to die in their beds. The owners/managers of the nursing home bear FULL responsibilty for these people's deaths. They were charged with caring for these patients (who could not care for themselves) and they failed to do so. Nothing anyone could have done to prevent this one - who knew these people would abandon their patients not once (by not evacuating them or moving them to a hospital), but TWICE!
These caretakers should be proscuted for murder.

[JBean]

Where would they have taken these people? Remember these would have been indigents, nursing home residents, elderly, sick, disabled, mixed with families, children and NONE of them with money or a place to go. Roads clogged with traffic, Superdome full to bursting, Baton Rouge filled to overflow. Were they just to park them on the side of the road somewhere north of New Orleans? Where was FEMA with shelters and coordinating with other states? Why was the Red Cross denied access? Where were the people to go to be collected? Were there sufficient securiy persons on hand to supervise this busing? You can't just expect folks to calmly load on buses - look at the mess at the Superdome...at the Convention Center. Before the storm FEMA was nowhere, Nat'l Guard was nowhere, aid workers were positioned far outside the storm area. For all we know as many people could have been killed in the riots and violence inherant in an uncontrollable rush to board these buses as drowned later.
It's easy to say that 250 buses sat unused - people forget that it would have been a huge logistical undertaking with few good answers - more people at the Superdome? Convention Center? Hospitals? Busloads of people with nowhere to go? Since "help" took literally DAYS to arrive would the evacuation of MORE people have meant more deaths in the so-called shelters?
No matter how you look at this leadership was lacking, help was lacking, preparation was lacking - and on EVERYONE's part. Ultimately though, it is FEMA who bears the brunt of the responsibility and FEMA who was out of touch and unresponsive. Evacuating a million people should not be left to the Mayor or even the Gov to handle alone without significant National Agency support, No city, no state has those kinds of resources.These citizens didn't move in the night before the hurricane. They have been there for years.
This should have all been spelled out in the city/state disaster evacuation plan. If the governor and the mayor did not know what to do in case of emergncy they should have FOUND out and asked for help before a hurricane ever hit. Years before it hit. We even knew what the possibilties for devastation were.It is their job to support it's citizens for 72 hours before FEMA ever arrives. If they did not have the resources it was their responsibilty to get them.

[PrayersForMaura]

What failed was the caretakers. When they were told to evacuate their patients they did not. When the waters rose the caretakers abandoned the patients to die in their beds. The owners/managers of the nursing home bear FULL responsibilty for these people's deaths. They were charged with caring for these patients (who could not care for themselves) and they failed to do so. Nothing anyone could have done to prevent this one - who knew these people would abandon their patients not once (by not evacuating them or moving them to a hospital), but TWICE!
These caretakers should be proscuted for murder.
I am wondering if it's all patients who died?
If the caretakers left these patients for death, I am going to really be upset. :furious:

[Tom'sGirl]

Where would they have taken these people? Remember these would have been indigents, nursing home residents, elderly, sick, disabled, mixed with families, children and NONE of them with money or a place to go. Roads clogged with traffic, Superdome full to bursting, Baton Rouge filled to overflow. Were they just to park them on the side of the road somewhere north of New Orleans? Where was FEMA with shelters and coordinating with other states? Why was the Red Cross denied access? Where were the people to go to be collected? Were there sufficient securiy persons on hand to supervise this busing? You can't just expect folks to calmly load on buses - look at the mess at the Superdome...at the Convention Center. Before the storm FEMA was nowhere, Nat'l Guard was nowhere, aid workers were positioned far outside the storm area. For all we know as many people could have been killed in the riots and violence inherant in an uncontrollable rush to board these buses as drowned later.
It's easy to say that 250 buses sat unused - people forget that it would have been a huge logistical undertaking with few good answers - more people at the Superdome? Convention Center? Hospitals? Busloads of people with nowhere to go? Since "help" took literally DAYS to arrive would the evacuation of MORE people have meant more deaths in the so-called shelters?
No matter how you look at this leadership was lacking, help was lacking, preparation was lacking - and on EVERYONE's part. Ultimately though, it is FEMA who bears the brunt of the responsibility and FEMA who was out of touch and unresponsive. Evacuating a million people should not be left to the Mayor or even the Gov to handle alone without significant National Agency support, No city, no state has those kinds of resources.
No excuses, they failed miserably in 2004 and didn't use the school buses even then!!!!!!........no more excuses.

What have they done since that failed evacuation to correct what went wrong.........nothing, that's what!

[Details]

Did you hear the Mayor (think it was Sunday) during an interview say something to the effect of this being "the cleansing of New Orleans" ? He also said he hoped when some of the people returned they would be better citizens.......or somthing like that!

My mouth full of coffee almost fell open.I don't know that I don't agree with him. That city seems to be very, very sick. Raping women and children, firing at rescue workers, attacking hospitals and nurses, going after tourists or anyone white, the lack of the general crowd to stop so many of these things from happening (you'd expect a mob to attack someone trying to rape a woman or child in a rescue center, not to turn a blind eye!), so many different ways the reaction of New Orleans to disaster was inconcievable! I think spreading those people out to see what a healthier society looks like might help them return as better citizens - I sure hope so.

[concernedperson]

I don't know that I don't agree with him. That city seems to be very, very sick. Raping women and children, firing at rescue workers, attacking hospitals and nurses, going after tourists or anyone white, the lack of the general crowd to stop so many of these things from happening (you'd expect a mob to attack someone trying to rape a woman or child in a rescue center, not to turn a blind eye!), so many different ways the reaction of New Orleans to disaster was inconcievable! I think spreading those people out to see what a healthier society looks like might help them return as better citizens - I sure hope so.

I have been trying to get attention to this State's problems for years. I am from there and have known for way too long. The problem is the good gets mixed in with the bad. And the bad are most formidable.The good have been hurt way too far. We need to respect people and at least let them get their story out there. And the animalistic behavior is deplorable to me and should be stopped without any other consideration.

[kgeaux]

Fox news just had a Red Cross spokesman on, who confirmed something I've been hearing for a couple of days. Remember how Gov. Blanco said the Red Cross was kept from entering New Orleans because of the thugs with AK47's?
Well, the Red Cross person says they were prevented from entering by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY department. Why???? Because if food and water were delivered to the people in the superdome, they would stay there, and the state wanted them to leave New Orleans.

People, this keeps going from bad to worse.

[marrigotti]

Fox news just had a Red Cross spokesman on, who confirmed something I've been hearing for a couple of days. Remember how Gov. Blanco said the Red Cross was kept from entering New Orleans because of the thugs with AK47's?
Well, the Red Cross person says they were prevented from entering by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY department. Why???? Because if food and water were delivered to the people in the superdome, they would stay there, and the state wanted them to leave New Orleans.

People, this keeps going from bad to worse.

Now, we're cooking with heat. I suspect that there are plenty more shockers to come.

[chicoliving]

Of course they would stay there.....they were locked in. From bad to worse it seems....

[tybee204]

Fox news just had a Red Cross spokesman on, who confirmed something I've been hearing for a couple of days. Remember how Gov. Blanco said the Red Cross was kept from entering New Orleans because of the thugs with AK47's?
Well, the Red Cross person says they were prevented from entering by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY department. Why???? Because if food and water were delivered to the people in the superdome, they would stay there, and the state wanted them to leave New Orleans.

People, this keeps going from bad to worse.


This fact is why I started the original "I am so angry" thread.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28612

My 1st post on it was the link to the Red Cross Page saying exactly that.

am so angry that Homeland Security blocked the Red Cross from feeding people, delivering medicine and food to Hospitals and setting up any form of relief within New Orleans to sustain life untill evacuations could be organized. Since when is the Red Cross not allowed to enter a disaster area to offer life saving services?

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,...24,00.html#4524

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

[cynder]

Fox news just had a Red Cross spokesman on, who confirmed something I've been hearing for a couple of days. Remember how Gov. Blanco said the Red Cross was kept from entering New Orleans because of the thugs with AK47's?
Well, the Red Cross person says they were prevented from entering by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY department. Why???? Because if food and water were delivered to the people in the superdome, they would stay there, and the state wanted them to leave New Orleans.

People, this keeps going from bad to worse.
Another gem from the masters of Republican spin - Fox News.
I'll wait and see what other MSM outlets report on this one. Rupert and his merry band have been known to um "slant" things in a pro Admin way in the past. This sounds like pure "Spin" to me - the Gov and the Mayor were on TV daily BEGGING for help while unknown to THEM their own LA Dept of Homeland Security was rejecting aid? Hmmm - sure seems illogical to me? Maybe FEDERAL Homeland Security (run by Brown's Boss Chertoff) maybe, but STATE Homeland Security? Do they trump the Gov of the State? Are they within her control or do they report to Chertoff? The water in NO isn't the only thing that smells here.

[dakini]

Another gem from the masters of Republican spin - Fox News.
I'll wait and see what other MSM outlets report on this one. Rupert and his merry band have been known to um "slant" things in a pro Admin way in the past. This sounds like pure "Spin" to me - the Gov and the Mayor were on TV daily BEGGING for help while unknown to THEM their own LA Dept of Homeland Security was rejecting aid? Hmmm - sure seems illogical to me? Maybe FEDERAL Homeland Security (run by Brown's Boss Chertoff) maybe, but STATE Homeland Security? Do they trump the Gov of the State? Are they within her control or do they report to Chertoff? The water in NO isn't the only thing that smells here.
You rock Cynder.

[less0305]

Fox news just had a Red Cross spokesman on, who confirmed something I've been hearing for a couple of days. Remember how Gov. Blanco said the Red Cross was kept from entering New Orleans because of the thugs with AK47's?
Well, the Red Cross person says they were prevented from entering by the STATE HOMELAND SECURITY department. Why???? Because if food and water were delivered to the people in the superdome, they would stay there, and the state wanted them to leave New Orleans.

People, this keeps going from bad to worse.

It was the Chairman of the Red Cross. I can't remember the title...same thing that Liddy Dole was at one time, I think. Anyway, she said they were positioned and ready to go, but the State officials wouldn't let them go in because it would encourage people to stay. I heard it too.

[marrigotti]

Another gem from the masters of Republican spin - Fox News.
I'll wait and see what other MSM outlets report on this one. Rupert and his merry band have been known to um "slant" things in a pro Admin way in the past. This sounds like pure "Spin" to me - the Gov and the Mayor were on TV daily BEGGING for help while unknown to THEM their own LA Dept of Homeland Security was rejecting aid? Hmmm - sure seems illogical to me? Maybe FEDERAL Homeland Security (run by Brown's Boss Chertoff) maybe, but STATE Homeland Security? Do they trump the Gov of the State? Are they within her control or do they report to Chertoff? The water in NO isn't the only thing that smells here.

I am not sure that I am following you. Are you implying that the Red Cross spokesman is not being honest?

[less0305]

This fact is why I started the original "I am so angry" thread.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28612

My 1st post on it was the link to the Red Cross Page saying exactly that.

am so angry that Homeland Security blocked the Red Cross from feeding people, delivering medicine and food to Hospitals and setting up any form of relief within New Orleans to sustain life untill evacuations could be organized. Since when is the Red Cross not allowed to enter a disaster area to offer life saving services?

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,...24,00.html#4524

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.


Wow, Tybee.....we've come full circle!

[marrigotti]

So, it looks like it was State, not federal action, that blocked aid.

[bulletgirl2002]

I just read over in another forum that Barbara Bush said that since the survivors were already so poor, they are doing pretty well in the Astrodome. Does anyone know if this is true, if she really said that?
Yes she did say that which makes me wonder if she has the beginnings of dementia. She is usually such a gracious person, then again maybe she is just out of touch with reality in her ivory tower...so many are. Or maybe she spoke before she thought....

[bulletgirl2002]

Me either. And if I were in the City or local gov't as a leader (any of them, not just the Mayor -who is the City's Emergency Operations Planner or ?, by the way, where has he/she been?)...I think those pictures of those 216 +/- buses flooded in that lot, would and should bring me nightmares for many, many years to come. AND THEY HAD DAYS OF ADVANCE WARNING!!! It's not like an earthquake situation. :doh:
Gee, we have a wonderful emergency manager (I am hoping). Don't you guys participate in mock drills. I know we do....and then the results are reported on the news. We have all sorts of scenerios such as what if no electricity to pump the gas etc.

[cynder]

But WHO does the state Homeland Security Dept REPORT TO???
Because if they are under the control of the FEDERAL HOMELAND SECURITY DEPT then it wasn't exactly the STATE who denied them access.
I know what the Red Cross said, what I am not so sure about is who made this decision. I am also not sure that the Red Cross was willing to go to the Superdome or the Convention Center without benefit of police/military protection.
I am researching now to get the facts on this.

[bulletgirl2002]

I posted early on that my sister ,who is an expert in disaster relief, said it is up to the city and state officials to provide first line defense for it's citizens,with a goal of 72 hours. Set up it's citizens with pre-planning to hold down the fort til the big guns arrive. In this case, it just seems they ran for cover leaving evryne to wait for FEMA and/or fend for themselves. Worst of it being, the local govt knew exactly what would happen to these people!
The argument that the president should have overidden that mayor is an interesting one. Interesting, because they only way the President will do that is based on information he is given. That information is supplied to him by the GOVERNOR!
The thing is, I can't expect GW to know about my neighborhood. I DO expect my mayor and my governor to know and if Thurmond Dam is about to break and I have forewarning, my tail is outta here and the mayor and governor needs to be evacuating everyone that can't take care of themselves.

[JBean]

The thing is, I can't expect GW to know about my neighborhood. I DO expect my mayor and my governor to know and if Thurmond Dam is about to break and I have forewarning, my tail is outta here and the mayor and governor needs to be evacuating everyone that can't take care of themselves.exactly

[less0305]

But WHO does the state Homeland Security Dept REPORT TO???
Because if they are under the control of the FEDERAL HOMELAND SECURITY DEPT then it wasn't exactly the STATE who denied them access.
I know what the Red Cross said, what I am not so sure about is who made this decision. I am also not sure that the Red Cross was willing to go to the Superdome or the Convention Center without benefit of police/military protection.
I am researching now to get the facts on this.

Cynder, I'm not entirely sure on this, but I think each state appoints a Homeland Security commission (for lack of a better word) much like mental health or welfare or whatever and it's run by each state. I'd have to do more research on that tho. I am under the impression (and I may be wrong) that it's sort of like that and the head of each state's homeland security team reports to the governor or his/her designee. That's a good thing to research and I love to research, so I'll attempt to do a little looking around - while I'm keeping up with reading the posts.

[kgeaux]

This fact is why I started the original "I am so angry" thread.
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28612

My 1st post on it was the link to the Red Cross Page saying exactly that.

am so angry that Homeland Security blocked the Red Cross from feeding people, delivering medicine and food to Hospitals and setting up any form of relief within New Orleans to sustain life untill evacuations could be organized. Since when is the Red Cross not allowed to enter a disaster area to offer life saving services?

http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,...24,00.html#4524

Hurricane Katrina: Why is the Red Cross not in New Orleans?


Acess to New Orleans is controlled by the National Guard and local authorities and while we are in constant contact with them, we simply cannot enter New Orleans against their orders.

The state Homeland Security Department had requested--and continues to request--that the American Red Cross not come back into New Orleans following the hurricane. Our presence would keep people from evacuating and encourage others to come into the city.

Tybee, how did I miss that? I must've been in a daze when I read your link. Looks like I am a few days late with the news, huh? I have heard this bandied about town, but I wasn't sure if it was accurate info or not--then the Red Cross Spokeperson confirms it. I cannot believe this......



editing to add: Can anyone confirm if State Homeland Security answers to the governor? Did they do this under her orders? (that is certainly what has been said here in Lafayette)

[DEPUTYDAWG]

On Fox, Lt. Cowan (Retired)....

Says he's been told the Guard is under a GAG order in reference to the timeline of the Guard's deployment, etc.

Hasn't said yet WHO has issued the gag order, but OMG. Like this info won't come out????

Also, Judge Napolitano (I don't like him, usually, IMO)...just said neither the Feds nor the State can direct evacuation of you out of your own house. They can demand you get out of public areas such as streets, parking lots, commercial areas.

Waiting to hear more...

[Tom'sGirl]

Yes she did say that which makes me wonder if she has the beginnings of dementia. She is usually such a gracious person, then again maybe she is just out of touch with reality in her ivory tower...so many are. Or maybe she spoke before she thought....
It could be both, her age and the lack of thought before speaking as she has always been so out-spoken which so many thought refreshing way back.

I had hoped she meant her comments in a positive way as I've heard reporters there saying it over and over that many inside were living better than they were before being brought there.

[kgeaux]

On Fox, Lt. Cowan (Retired)....

Says he's been told the Guard is under a GAG order in reference to the timeline of the Guard's deployment, etc.

Hasn't said yet WHO has issued the gag order, but OMG. Like this info won't come out????

Waiting to hear more...

Good gravy! No way to cover something like this up!! Just when I think I've heard the worst....

[JBean]

Cynder, I'm not entirely sure on this, but I think each state appoints a Homeland Security commission (for lack of a better word) much like mental health or welfare or whatever and it's run by each state. I'd have to do more research on that tho. I am under the impression (and I may be wrong) that it's sort of like that and the head of each state's homeland security team reports to the governor or his/her designee. That's a good thing to research and I love to research, so I'll attempt to do a little looking around - while I'm keeping up with reading the posts.this is called the "State name" Emergency Management

[less0305]

It could be both, her age and the lack of thought before speaking as she has always been so out-spoken which so many thought refreshing way back.

I had hoped she meant her comments in a positive way as I've heard reporters there saying it over and over that many inside were living better than they were before being brought there.

There was a pretty good discussion on this topic in that "Would this have happened anywhere other than N.O." or whatever it's called.

[Liz]

It was the Chairman of the Red Cross. I can't remember the title...same thing that Liddy Dole was at one time, I think. Anyway, she said they were positioned and ready to go, but the State officials wouldn't let them go in because it would encourage people to stay. I heard it too.


Last night I herd the exact same thing (the reason Tybee started this thread) and it came directly from the mouth of the President of the Red Cross, Marty Evans.

To clarify, it was the "State" Homeland Security that prevented Red Cross from going in in NO.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Tybee, how did I miss that? I must've been in a daze when I read your link. Looks like I am a few days late with the news, huh? I have heard this bandied about town, but I wasn't sure if it was accurate info or not--then the Red Cross Spokeperson confirms it. I cannot believe this......



editing to add: Can anyone confirm if State Homeland Security answers to the governor? Did they do this under her orders? (that is certainly what has been said here in Lafayette)

Kgeaux, I'm very happy you mentioned it again, because I've either forgotten or missed the part about it being the STATE Homeland Security not allowing them in... eagerly waiting to hear what y'all are going to find out about who the State Homeland Security reports to....

As each passing day goes by, more and more stuff sure is coming out....

[Mabel]

Yes she did say that which makes me wonder if she has the beginnings of dementia. She is usually such a gracious person, then again maybe she is just out of touch with reality in her ivory tower...so many are. Or maybe she spoke before she thought....



In a segment at the top of the show on the surge of
evacuees to the Texas city, Barbara Bush said: "Almost
everyone I’ve talked to says we're going to move to
Houston."

Then she added: "What I’m hearing which is sort of
scary is they all want to stay in Texas. Everyone is
so overwhelmed by the hospitality.

"And so many of the people in the arena here, you
know, were underprivileged anyway, so this--this (she
chuckles slightly) is working very well for them." http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001054719

[Liz]

Kgeaux, I'm very happy you mentioned it again, because I've either forgotten or missed the part about it being the STATE Homeland Security not allowing them in... eagerly waiting to hear what y'all are going to find out about who the State Homeland Security reports to....

As each passing day goes by, more and more stuff sure is coming out....

DeputyDawg, I think a lot of people missed that "state" part. It was quite clear in Tybee's post though. But, it was something easy to miss, too.

[bulletgirl2002]

You rock Cynder.
I love u Cynder,,,,,but I respectifully disagree..how are the turtles....

[less0305]

But WHO does the state Homeland Security Dept REPORT TO???
Because if they are under the control of the FEDERAL HOMELAND SECURITY DEPT then it wasn't exactly the STATE who denied them access.
I know what the Red Cross said, what I am not so sure about is who made this decision. I am also not sure that the Red Cross was willing to go to the Superdome or the Convention Center without benefit of police/military protection.
I am researching now to get the facts on this.

I think I found it for Louisiana:
http://www.loep.state.la.us/homeland/default.htm

State Response

The Louisiana Senate and House of Representative’s Select Committees on Louisiana Homeland Security were created to provide legislative leadership and assistance in the coordination of state efforts to secure the state of Louisiana from terrorist threats and attacks. These committees, together with the Governor’s Office, are committed and privileged to serve the citizens of this great state in this vital task of assuring a safe and secure environment. Read More...

Terrorism link for "read more":
http://www.loep.state.la.us/homeland/hls-main-StateResp.htm

State Readiness

Here citizen's can find related links to State departments, agencies, and programs, in their efforts at preventing and responding to threats and potential threats that confront this state, including natural disasters. Read More...

After following the "Read More" link you get here:
http://www.loep.state.la.us/homeland/hls-main-StateReady.htm

And then you can click on Homeland Security State Contact
MG Bennett C. Landreneau
Adjutant General and Director of the Louisiana Office of Emergency Preparedness

225-925-7500
Fax: 225-925-7501
http://www.loep.state.la.us/homeland

[Liz]

I'm pretty sure that the state level of emergency management comes under the governor of each state. I recall Jeb Bush wearing those FEMA logo shirts after FL hurricanes hit, and I'm pretty sure that stands for Florida Emergency Management Agency.

I heard on a news report last night someone in the state of Mississippi alluding to FEMA and then they added "and MEMA, which is the state's agency".

[less0305]

The Adjutant General reports to the Governor.

I wonder if the Louisiana AG feels as strongly as the Connecticutt AG about not taking control from the Governor cuz this is what he said at a congressional hearing:

MAJOR GENERAL WILLIAM A. CUGNO
ADJUTANT GENERAL, CONNECTICUT
BEFORE
THE HOUSE GOVERNMENT REFORM
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
NATIONAL SECURITY, VETERANS AFFAIRS,
AND INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
FIRST SESSION, 107TH CONGRESS

ON
COMBATING TERRORISM:
FEDERAL RESPONSE TO A BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS ATTACK
JULY 23, 2001

I can’t emphasize enough the realities of what occurs in a state during emergencies. I know those who
advocate a strong federal role often underestimate these realities. The Governor has the ultimate
responsibility to restore normalcy to his or her citizens and should to the greatest extent resist
relinquishing control. Dark-Winter proponents of a strong federal role clearly demonstrated a lack of
understanding of statehood and political realities. Federal agencies must understand that the victims of
Dark Winter, and the victims of any state emergency for that matter, trust their local and state
governments for relief -- relief delivered by trusted neighbors, first responders and state Guardsmen -- as
they have in past emergencies. When a strong state chain of command and control is maintained and
federal assets are integrated as needed, unnecessary federalization of the National Guard is avoided. The
Governor maintains control.

Federalizing the National Guard would raise legal issues in respect to the Dark-Winter operation. The
ability of the federal government to use the National Guard is limited by the Militia Clause of the
Constitution Clause.[1] The Militia Clause provides for the calling forth of the Militia to execute the
Laws of the Union, suppress insurrections and repel invasions. Congress empowered the President, as
the Commander in Chief, to call forth the Militia.[2] The law, however, constrains the President in the
federal use of the National Guard, limiting the use to when the President is unable to execute the federal
law with regular forces.[3]
The Posse Comitatus Act prohibits the use of any part of the Army, Air Force, Navy, or Marines,
including their reserve components, as a posse comitatus (“armed force”) or otherwise to execute the
laws, except as authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress. Congress has created a number of
statutory exceptions to the Posse Comitatus Act, which fall into four major categories: (1) insurrections
and civil disturbances, [4] (2) counterdrug operations, [5] (3) disaster relief, [6] (4) counter-terrorism and
weapons of mass destruction.[7] It is important to note that the legal authority to use federal forces in the
context of a Dark-Winter operation does exist. Federal officials, however, would first be required to
jointly make numerous determinations before using federal soldiers.[8]

Federalization would effectively restructure the chain of command. While under state
control, the chain of command remains exclusively with the state, ends with the Governor, and The
Adjutant General, regardless of service component, is the commander of the state’s entire Army and Air
National Guard. Federalization would replace the Governor, The Adjutant General and the State Area
Command with a federal Army chain of command. This changing of command would create additional
logistics and communications problems, as well as consume valuable time.

The major effect of federalizing is the removal of state control. State control is vital to operations within
a state. The vitality arises from the trust, a unique aspect of mission efficiency, developed between state
officials through their regular governmental functions, activities and exercises. Moreover, the Governor
has more flexibility in the use of National Guard forces in emergency situations than federal
commanders, who are constrained by federal law while conducting military/civil operations within the
United States.

When dealing with and training for domestic emergencies a few points must be kept in mind.
· The Governor is in charge.
· We must channel adequate federal resources to our state and local first responders.
· State agencies possess unique skills and assets, which must be included the response plans.
· Future exercises, to be credible, should always include the National Guard, State and municipal
agencies.


I added the emphasis of bold and underline.

[tybee204]

The DHS Transition


What is the Mission of the New Department of Homeland Security?

The many men and women who daily protect our borders and secure our country are committed to the safety of our homeland. The new Department will help them do their jobs better with increased communication, coordination and resources. Specifically, the new Department of Homeland Security (DHS) will have three primary missions:

Prevent terrorist attacks within the United States,
Reduce America's vulnerability to terrorism, and
Minimize the damage from potential attacks and natural disasters.


In order to accomplish these three goals the new Department will focus on creating the new capabilities discussed in the July 2002 National Strategy for Homeland Security. The Strategy points out that today no one single government agency has homeland security as its primary mission. In fact, responsibilities for homeland security are dispersed among more than 100 different government organizations. America needs a single, unified homeland security structure that will improve protection against today's threats and be flexible enough to help meet the unknown threats of the future.

The new Department of Homeland Security, the most significant transformation of the U.S. government in over a half-century, will transform and realign the current confusing patchwork of government activities into a single department. DHS will give state and local officials one primary contact instead of many, an important advantage when it comes to matters related to training, equipment, planning, exercises and other critical homeland security needs. It will manage federal grant programs for enhancing the preparedness of firefighters, police, and emergency medical personnel. DHS will also set standards for state and local preparedness activities and equipment.

[PrayersForMaura]

well it's certainly becoming more and more evident that those people elected into state and local offices do not read their own state constitutions or know their emergency policies and procedures.

[tybee204]

Homeland Security leverages resources within federal, state, and local governments, coordinating the transition of multiple agencies and programs into a single, integrated agency focused on protecting the American people and their homeland. More than 87,000 different governmental jurisdictions at the federal, state, and local level have homeland security responsibilities. The comprehensive national strategy seeks to develop a complementary system connecting all levels of government without duplicating effort. Homeland Security is truly a “national mission”.

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=13

[PrayersForMaura]

The DHS Transition


What is the Mission of the New Department of Homeland Security?

The many men and women who daily protect our borders and secure our country are committed to the safety of our homeland. The new Department will help them do their jobs better with increased communication, coordination and resources. Specifically, the new Department of Homeland Security (DHS) will have three primary missions:

Prevent terrorist attacks within the United States,
Reduce America's vulnerability to terrorism, and
Minimize the damage from potential attacks and natural disasters.


In order to accomplish these three goals the new Department will focus on creating the new capabilities discussed in the July 2002 National Strategy for Homeland Security. The Strategy points out that today no one single government agency has homeland security as its primary mission. In fact, responsibilities for homeland security are dispersed among more than 100 different government organizations. America needs a single, unified homeland security structure that will improve protection against today's threats and be flexible enough to help meet the unknown threats of the future.

The new Department of Homeland Security, the most significant transformation of the U.S. government in over a half-century, will transform and realign the current confusing patchwork of government activities into a single department. DHS will give state and local officials one primary contact instead of many, an important advantage when it comes to matters related to training, equipment, planning, exercises and other critical homeland security needs. It will manage federal grant programs for enhancing the preparedness of firefighters, police, and emergency medical personnel. DHS will also set standards for state and local preparedness activities and equipment.this is very informative but i wouldn't be surprised if the LA. state department of homeland security didn't even contact the one primary contact person....

[Tom'sGirl]

There was a pretty good discussion on this topic in that "Would this have happened anywhere other than N.O." or whatever it's called.
Thank you less, yes I know it was discussed elsewhere......I was just responding to a fellow poster!

[Dara]

Makes you wonder if anyone knows at what point we are in the transition.

Is Terry Ebbert the state homeland director? I've been looking for information on him (well, weeding through a lot of info about). I remember him irate about FEMA not being there. I'm looking for some reference to him and the Red Cross, but I can't find it.

[less0305]

Thank you less, yes I know it was discussed elsewhere......I was just responding to a fellow poster!

Oh, just didn't know if you'd seen it. Sorry.

[Linda7NJ]

Makes you wonder if anyone knows at what point we are in the transition.

Is Terry Ebbert the state homeland director? I've been looking for information on him (well, weeding through a lot of info about). I remember him irate about FEMA not being there. I'm looking for some reference to him and the Red Cross, but I can't find it.
What happened to Tom Ridge?:waitasec:

[Liz]

What happened to Tom Ridge?:waitasec:


I think you haven't been following the news? He's LONG gone!

[Linda7NJ]

I think you haven't been following the news? He's LONG gone!
Nope, I had no idea! What happened to him?

[Tom'sGirl]

Oh, just didn't know if you'd seen it. Sorry.
Oh heck, don't be sorry, it was sweet of you to mention the other thread.

[Dara]

What happened to Tom Ridge?:waitasec:
Chertoff replaced him. Ebbert is with LA.

[Liz]

Nope, I had no idea! What happened to him?


He resigned as chief of the Federal Dept of Homeland Security, almost a year ago.

[Tom'sGirl]

Nope, I had no idea! What happened to him?Ridge steps down as Homeland Security chief

Former Pennsylvania governor was first to oversee department

Thursday, December 2, 2004 Posted: 10:50 AM EST (1550 GMT)



CNN) -- Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge resigned Tuesday, but he will remain in the post until February 1 unless a successor is confirmed sooner.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/30/ridge/ (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/11/30/ridge/)

[TexMex]

This is too much


http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5280340-117540,00.html

Storm water for sale on eBay

David Teather in New York
Thursday September 8, 2005

Guardian

The chance to make a quick buck from Hurricane Katrina has not escaped some, with items on eBay including a "rain-soaked newspaper" delivered on the day the storm hit the American south, jars of rainwater and a message in a bottle that supposedly led to the rescue of several families.
Among other items on sale on eBay yesterday was a scribbling that a Texan "artist" claims he drew after waking from a dream 10 days before the storm, which uncannily resembles satellite pictures of Katrina. One man, claiming to be a survivor of the catastrophe, is offering the rights to his story, starting at $12,500 (£6,800).

[Tom'sGirl]

This is too much


http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5280340-117540,00.html

Storm water for sale on eBay

David Teather in New York
Thursday September 8, 2005

Guardian

The chance to make a quick buck from Hurricane Katrina has not escaped some, with items on eBay including a "rain-soaked newspaper" delivered on the day the storm hit the American south, jars of rainwater and a message in a bottle that supposedly led to the rescue of several families.
Among other items on sale on eBay yesterday was a scribbling that a Texan "artist" claims he drew after waking from a dream 10 days before the storm, which uncannily resembles satellite pictures of Katrina. One man, claiming to be a survivor of the catastrophe, is offering the rights to his story, starting at $12,500 (£6,800).Disgusting, didn't this type of crap go on eBay after 9/11 also?

[Dara]

Disgusting, didn't this type of crap go on eBay after 9/11 also?
I'm pretty sure it did, but I think if you report it eBay pulls the auction.

[DEPUTYDAWG]

Gee, we have a wonderful emergency manager (I am hoping). Don't you guys participate in mock drills. I know we do....and then the results are reported on the news. We have all sorts of scenerios such as what if no electricity to pump the gas etc.

Our agency does all kinds of mock drills, yes. The Wednesday before Katrina, we had a District Emergency Mgmt drill - "issues" (can't say what) at a nuclear plant. We have that specific one about every 6 months. But this has gotten me thinking (a lot)...and since I've been there, we haven't had a tornado drill, that I'm aware of, and we're in tornado alley! Of course, the CITY here would be in charge of coordinating shelters, food, etc. And I can't tell you where the shelters are! :