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Mabel
09-08-2005, 01:26 AM
I know it was mentioned before but I haven't seen any discussion, what do we know about the effect that millions and millions of gallons of toxic water might have on the ocean? On Greta tonight (I think it was on Greta) they said more pumps are being brought in. I believe they said (I really need to pay more attention) that these new pumps could process millions of gallons of water every hour....and still it might take up to 80 days to drain the city. I'm quite concerned about what the toxins in this much water might do to the marine environment. I suppose I should just assume that FEMA or some other 'on the ball' agency has already looked into this.

KrazyKollector
09-08-2005, 02:14 AM
I know it was mentioned before but I haven't seen any discussion, what do we know about the effect millions and millions of gallons of toxic water might have on the ocean? On Greta tonight (I think it was on Greta) they said more pumps are being brought in. I believe they said (I really need to pay more attention) that these new pumps could process millions of gallons of water every hour. I'm quite concerned about what the toxins in this much water might do to the marine environment. I suppose I should just assume that FEMA or some other 'on the ball' agency has already looked into this.The ramifications to the Gulf will be horrible. It will also be horrible to areas of the Mississippi River and the leeching could may any crops grown a health risk in years to come.

My DH works for a Water Pollution Control Center and he has to have several shots that cover things like hepatitis, typhus, tetanus. So much crud has already leeched down into the ground of NO and surrounding areas.

I know some have already gotten sick and some have died (if what I remember is correct). How long it can incubate in people who waded through it or swam and maybe swallowed water, I have no clue.
But, I continue to pray for everyone involved in all three states.

JBean
09-08-2005, 03:34 AM
BATON ROUGE, Louisiana (Reuters) -- The toxic brew of chemicals and human waste in the New Orleans floodwaters will have to be pumped into the Mississippi River or Lake Pontchartrain, raising the specter of an environmental disaster on the heels of Hurricane Katrina, experts say
The dire need to rid the drowned city of water could trigger fish kills and poison the delicate wetlands near New Orleans and the Gulf of Mexico at the mouth of the Mississippi. (Full story (http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/09/05/katrina.wetlands.ap/index.html))

State and federal agencies have just begun water quality testing but environmental experts say the vile, stagnant chemical soup that sits in the streets of the city will contain traces of everything imaginable.

"Go home and identify all the chemicals in your house. It's a very long list," said Ivor van Heerden, head of a Louisiana State University center that studies the public health impacts of hurricanes





http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/09/06/katrina.water.reut/
and http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/09/05/katrina.wetlands.ap/index.html

dani
09-08-2005, 04:21 AM
I just heard, on Hannity and Colmes on FOX, a guy say that fish swimming around in the flood waters of the city are jumping out of the water and throwing themselves up onto the piles of rubble to die. This ought to be a clue to even the clueless. :doh:

I will not be buying fish from the gulf area for a lo-o-ong time, if ever again.

I can't believe the governor of Louisiana not insisting on a forced evacuation. She wants to wait until the water tests she sent off come back, which will be another 3 or 4 days. Meanwhile, more and more citizens will be getting sick. Some people need to be protected from themselves. :banghead:

I also heard that there were 9 confirmed cases of "West Nile" in N.O. BEFORE Katrina hit, but it wasn't publicized.

LinasK
09-08-2005, 04:33 AM
I've heard on local and national news the water is so toxic, they don't even want people to set foot in it without being decontaminated, yet people are bathing in it! The bacterial levels alone are 10x above normal, there have been dead bodies in it, raw sewage, chemicals like gas, pollution... and there are mold problems as well as cholera type diseases being spread.

rollerbladr123
09-08-2005, 05:13 AM
http://my.webmd.com/content/Article/111/110025.htm?pagenumber=1CDC Checks 4 Cases of Waterborne Disease ; 'Sporadic' Reports of Stomach Illnesses at Shelters; Lingering in Sediment

Quote 1 The CDC is investigating four cases of a waterborne disease caused by the Vibrio vulnificus bacterium in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

Quote 2 Early test results of New Orleans floodwater show levels of E. coli and other bacteria exceed safe levels for human contact, says Stephen Johnson, administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). "Human contact with floodwater should be avoided as much as possible," Johnson told reporters in the same conference call. He and Gerberding urge people still in New Orleans to leave immediately. "We know the water is bad," says Johnson. New Orleans floodwater also contains more lead than the EPA considers safe for drinking water, says Johnson. Preliminary tests don't check for every type of water-borne illness, cautions Gerberding

Quote 3 There have been "sporadic reports" of gastrointestinal illnesses such as norovirus at some shelters housing people displaced by the hurricane, says Gerberding.

Quote 4 All of these things could persist in the environment around the flooded area for quite some time," even once the water is gone, says Alm. "There have been a number of scientific studies that have shown that these bacteria and viruses can persist in sediments [and] soils," she says. "One of the things that we've been looking at in particular is these bacteria. They seem to be pretty stable in the environment." "A lot of this water they're pumping back into the lake, so the bacteria [and] probably the viruses too, can settle back into the sediment and then stay for long periods of time," says Alm.

more at link....

Gabby
09-08-2005, 08:54 AM
With dead bodies of humans, and animals, raw sewage and no telling what all else in the water, how TOXIC do you think it is????

cynder
09-08-2005, 09:44 AM
At least 4 people have now died in Texas from diseases they got wading in and living in the water and many others are either sick or have bad wound infections so I would say it's deadly. Texas is warning that more may die - even after being rescued. Many of the evacuees were not in the best of health to begin with and the toxic water has exacted a higher toll on them than normally might be seen. Kids who already had asthma are also showing increased repiratory problems, and I am sure there are other problems ahead that are not in evidence yet.
Migratory birds are on their way to the Southern Coastal regions for winter and with the Mississippi River, Lake Ponchatrain and the entire Gulf Region polluted, oil on the water and deadly petro-chemicals IN it these birds will suffer in great numbers as well. Already water fowl are dead by the thousands. With water toxic, fish dead and plants dead from the pollution all mammal species who live in these regions are endangered - they too will die by the thousands in the coming weeks - either by poison or by lack of food. This is the tragedy that hasn't even been TALKED about yet except by us "tree-hugger types". And speaking of trees - all those beautiful old live oaks and other trees - well they are doomed too - drowned by flooding and burned by pollution and salt water. Watch them sicken and die by the thousands over the next year. Every home that has been innundated by these toxic waters will have to be destroyed. Acres of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast will be bulldozed flat and unless the top layer of soil is scraped out the soil will be so toxic with chemicals and salt nothing will grow.
New Orleans will NEVER be the same.
The EPA has already made the report and the water has some levels of chemicals, bacteria and toxins that are so high they are off the EPA charts. What the hurricane and flooding didn't kill, the pollution will.

But hey, so long as Halliburton and the oil and gas companies can still make a buck everything will be just fine.

kgeaux
09-08-2005, 09:47 AM
West Nile is all over south Lousiana. Do you have a source for your info, dani? I'm wondering if that is 9 confirmed cases in HUMANS or birds? Because here in Lafayette if we find a dead bird we take it to the health unit and they have it tested. If it tests positive, it's reported as a "confirmed case." A bird found down the block from me was positive. Talk about spraying yourself down with OFF. I'll worry about the deet thing later! We do have humans who have it, too, but at a much lower rate.


Editing: the oil on the water is going to be the least of the long term problems. I hate to mention Halliburton, but Halliburton is experienced in removing oil from water. There's this stuff they throw on top and it absorbs oil only. They then pick up the stuff and the water is clean of oil. The chemicals and bacteria, those are going to be forever type contamination.

I just told my husband that we will have to buy frozen fish from other areas; this will be a first for us. Living by the gulf, we are so spoiled, we have only had fresh seafood.

SieSie
09-08-2005, 11:30 AM
What illnesses can come of all of this toxicity? I've heard a few mentioned, but I'm sure I'm missing a ton.

*Hepatitis
*Tetanus
*Dysentary
*West Nile Virus
*Cholera

cynder
09-08-2005, 11:52 AM
"Tom Skinner, a spokesman for the Centres for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), said five died this week from vibrio vulnificus, a rarely active bacteria that is part of the cholera family."

"Meanwhile officials said tests showed New Orleans floodwaters contain unsafe levels of E. coli and coliform bacteria, as well as lead, and contact with the water should be avoided, Environmental Protection Agency chief Stephen Johnson urged yesterday."
http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=121439&Sn=WORL&IssueID=28172

tipper
09-08-2005, 12:00 PM
I just heard, on Hannity and Colmes on FOX, a guy say that fish swimming around in the flood waters of the city are jumping out of the water and throwing themselves up onto the piles of rubble to die. This ought to be a clue to even the clueless. :doh:

I will not be buying fish from the gulf area for a lo-o-ong time, if ever again.

I can't believe the governor of Louisiana not insisting on a forced evacuation. She wants to wait until the water tests she sent off come back, which will be another 3 or 4 days. Meanwhile, more and more citizens will be getting sick. Some people need to be protected from themselves. :banghead:

I also heard that there were 9 confirmed cases of "West Nile" in N.O. BEFORE Katrina hit, but it wasn't publicized.
When the governor met with Bush and the mayor and said she wanted 24 hours to think about it I thought she should be forced to go without food and water while she thought. For this I think she should wade around in that water several times a day while she waits for the test results.

SieSie
09-08-2005, 12:08 PM
When the governor met with Bush and the mayor and said she wanted 24 hours to think about it I thought she should be forced to go without food and water while she thought. For this I think she should wade around in that water several times a day while she waits for the test results.
:clap: I like that idea!!! :clap:

Mabel
09-08-2005, 02:03 PM
With dead bodies of humans, and animals, raw sewage and no telling what all else in the water, how TOXIC do you think it is????

If this is directed to me because of the title of the thread, I realize it's toxic, but what I'm wondering about the wisdom of pumping it out into the lake and river. Is it expected that the toxins will become so diluted with fresh water that they'll no longer be a danger?

less0305
09-08-2005, 02:05 PM
If this is directed to me because of the title of the thread, I realize it's toxic, but what I'm wondering about the wisdom of pumping it out into the lake and river. Is it expected that the toxins will become so diluted with fresh water that they'll no longer be a danger?

Where would you suggest they put it, tho?

Jeana (DP)
09-08-2005, 02:07 PM
If this is directed to me because of the title of the thread, I realize it's toxic, but what I'm wondering about the wisdom of pumping it out into the lake and river. Is it expected that the toxins will become so diluted with fresh water that they'll no longer be a danger?


That's a good question Mabel. I suspect that it will cause problems in the immediate "dumping" areas, but I suspect that over time it will become diluted enough that it won't be deadly. I just think that so much damage will be done to wildlife and the environment by then that its really going to be horrible.

Mabel
09-08-2005, 02:09 PM
Where would you suggest they put it, tho?

I have no idea. Perhaps it could be treated with some type of disinfectants as it's pumped out? Just because I don't have the answer doesn't mean I can't ask questions. I'd hate to see this tragedy spread to other areas or kill off marine life because of the poisoned water.

tybee204
09-08-2005, 02:16 PM
The environmental impact of this disaster is going to be evident for years to come.

less0305
09-08-2005, 02:26 PM
I have no idea. Perhaps it could be treated with some type of disinfectants as it's pumped out? Just because I don't have the answer doesn't mean I can't ask questions. I'd hate to see this tragedy spread to other areas or kill off marine life because of the poisoned water.

Oh, I didn't mean that!!! Please don't think I do. I'm really at a loss as to how they can get the water out fast, but yet, get the water out so as not to hurt the environment. I thought they had to pump it out fast because they need to begin going from house to house. I didn't think they could wait to come up with the engineering and means to treat it while they pump it. I really meant no harm.

FACE-IT
09-08-2005, 02:27 PM
The environmental impact of this disaster is going to be evident for years to come.Can you imagine what it will be like for those personnel assigned to finally remove bodies from the floodwaters??? The bodies they have shown are so bloated from decomposition gases; the bodies rupture when the pressure of the decomposiition gases become too great, further contaminating the water. After a week and a half in that heat, it's a real mess. Too bad they couldn't have had crews working the body removal at the same time other crews were performing the rescue work. It's hard to imagine the number of bodies could number into the thousands as it wouldn't seem possible. Still we won't know for sure until the water is puimped out of the city and the homes can be inspected one-by-one.

Mabel
09-08-2005, 02:31 PM
Oh, I didn't mean that!!! Please don't think I do. I'm really at a loss as to how they can get the water out fast, but yet, get the water out so as not to hurt the environment. I thought they had to pump it out fast because they need to begin going from house to house. I didn't think they could wait to come up with the engineering and means to treat it while they pump it. I really meant no harm.

:blowkiss:

cynder
09-08-2005, 02:49 PM
The Bush years are going to go down in environmental history as a travesty.
Wonder if they will edit, purge and rewrite the environmental impact statements on THIS event to make them say what they want instead of the truth?
I honestly don't think the Bush administration gives a damn about what gets pumped into the Mississippi River, Lake Ponchatrain or the Gulf of Mexico. I don't think they give a damn about what all those refineries, chemical processing plants, petrochemical manufacturing plants, oil rigs, tankers and ruptured pipelines are spewing, leaking and oozing into the water or the soil. Right now the focus is on the money being lost every minute they are out of commission and how badly that is going to impact gas and heating oil prices (and future campaign donations). The mid term elections are not that far away and the Republicans cannot afford to lose any ground.
Any environmental impact will be up to the media to ferret out and report on. Otherwise it will get buried so deep under Katrina backlash and spin that the general public will never hear a word.
And it's not just the water - every speck of debris and soil removed from NO and surrounding areas will have to be carefully placed in a special, segregated and lined pit or all that contamination will just leech right into the groundwater with every rain.
If they don't handle this very carefully, coastal LA is going to become a dead toxic wasteland. The impact to ALL living things could very easily become our Chernobyl.
I hope we are paying attention and I hope we insist on the truth.

BarnGoddess
09-08-2005, 03:26 PM
I heard on the radio about cases of Norwalk or Norfolk Virus outbreaks. I haven't googled yet but has anyone else heard this?

poco
09-08-2005, 03:32 PM
Government tests confirmed that the floodwaters are thick with sewage-related bacteria in amounts at least 10 times higher than acceptable safety limits. The muck is believed to contain E. coli, certain viruses and a type of cholera-like bacteria.

The danger of infection was not limited to the New Orleans area. The bacteria are feared to have migrated to crowded shelters outside the state, where many evacuees are staying. Four deaths -- one in Texas, three in Mississippi -- have been attributed to infected wounds, said Tom Skinner, spokesman for the CDC.

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050824033709990005

poco
09-08-2005, 03:38 PM
I heard on the radio about cases of Norwalk or Norfolk Virus outbreaks. I haven't googled yet but has anyone else heard this?

Norwalk virus is the leading cause of viral gastroenteritis in the U.S.

Norwalk virus causes acute gastroenteritis with nausea, vomiting, fever, and myalgia that lasts 24-48 hours. The virus is transmitted through fecal-oral contact. The Norwalk virus is well established as the chief cause of viral gastroenteritis epidemics. The disease occurs throughout the year without a seasonal predominance.

Norwalk virus was first associated with gastroenteritis in 1972. It was identified by electron microscopy of stool samples that had been saved from a 1968 gastroenteritis epidemic that occurred in Norwalk, Ohio. In a 2-day period, acute gastroenteritis developed in 50% of 232 students or teachers in an elementary school. The virus initially was labeled as a small, round, structured virus, and it was named after the city in which the outbreak occurred.

Information on the molecular characteristics of the virus is limited. It cannot be grown in any cell culture, and no readily available nonhuman animal model becomes ill from the Norwalk virus.

The virus is transmitted through contaminated food, water, or infected contacts. After ingestion, the virus infects the mucosa of the proximal small intestine, damages microvilli, and causes malabsorption of D-xylose, lactose, and fat. Although no histopathological lesions can be found in the stomach mucosa, the virus causes abnormal gastric motility and delayed gastric emptying. It does not invade the colon and, therefore, does not cause fecal leukocytes or hematochezia.

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1648.htm

BarnGoddess
09-08-2005, 04:49 PM
Thank you so much Poco. I guess it's now a problem in some shelters. That's mild compared to what could come along.

BTW, I don't think we've had any West Nile in our County this year. I spend big bucks to vaccinate horses each year at $17.00 per head. We spent about $375.00 this year to protect them. I watched a horse go down with West Nile a couple of years ago. Not a pretty sight.

KrazyKollector
09-08-2005, 05:26 PM
What illnesses can come of all of this toxicity? I've heard a few mentioned, but I'm sure I'm missing a ton.

*Hepatitis
*Tetanus
*Dysentary
*West Nile Virus
*Cholera
Q Fever
Typhus
Typhoid Fever
The intestinal parasites such as:
Enterobius vermicularis(pinworms)
Giardia lamblia
Ancylostoma duodenale(hookworm)
Necator americanus(hookworm)
Entamoeba histolytica
Skin infections:
erythrasma
impetigo
staph
folliculitis

In the future:
Cancer
Lung Disease

Here's a blurb about skin infections:
Skin infections are common and may be caused by bacteria, fungi or viruses. Breaks in the skin integrity, particularly those that inoculate pathogens into the dermis, frequently cause or exacerbate skin infections. Bacterial skin infections caused by corynebacteria include erythrasma, trichomycosis axillaris and pitted keratolysis. Staphylococci may cause impetigo, ecthyma and folliculitis. Streptococcal skin infections include impetigo and erysipelas. Human papillomavirus skin infections present as several different types of warts, depending on the surface infected and its relative moisture, and the patterns of pressure. The many dermatomycoses (skin infections caused by fungi or yeasts) include tinea capitis, tinea barbae, tinea cruris, tinea manus, tinea pedis and tinea unguium (onychomycosis). Candidal infections occur in moist areas, such as the vulva, mouth, penis, skinfolds and diaper area. Wounds caused by wood splinters or thorns may result in sporotrichosis. Animal bites may result in complex, serious infections, requiring tetanus and, possibly, rabies prophylaxis in addition to appropriate antibiotic therapy

http://www.aafp.org/afp/980515ap/odell.html

My list of the long range illnesses is short because I just started feeling so sad, I couldn't continue. Hopefully, most people will have a good enough immune system to fight anything off. The ones with a compromised system, I will pray they get prophylatic antibiotics.

Another long term problem will be as these infections are treated, they will become more and more resisitant to the treatments.

:( *with tears*

KrazyKollector
09-08-2005, 05:27 PM
When the governor met with Bush and the mayor and said she wanted 24 hours to think about it I thought she should be forced to go without food and water while she thought. For this I think she should wade around in that water several times a day while she waits for the test results.:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :blowkiss:

Casshew
09-08-2005, 05:37 PM
What illnesses can come of all of this toxicity? I've heard a few mentioned, but I'm sure I'm missing a ton.

*Hepatitis
*Tetanus
*Dysentary
*West Nile Virus
*Cholera
ecoli :(

BillyGoatGruff
09-08-2005, 05:39 PM
What illnesses can come of all of this toxicity? I've heard a few mentioned, but I'm sure I'm missing a ton.

*Hepatitis
*Tetanus
*Dysentary
*West Nile Virus
*Cholera
Scarlet Fever
Norwalk Virus
Sleeping Sickness
Encephalitis
and when the rats and feral dog packs take over the city you can add the threat of
Bubonic Plauge
Rabies

BillyGoatGruff
09-08-2005, 05:43 PM
If this is directed to me because of the title of the thread, I realize it's toxic, but what I'm wondering about the wisdom of pumping it out into the lake and river. Is it expected that the toxins will become so diluted with fresh water that they'll no longer be a danger?
Ponchartrain is not a fresh water lake, its salt.
And there is no other place TO pump it. It either goes into the lake or the river or the surroundign bayous, all of which feed into the Gulf.
However, human waste/sewage can be largely neutralized by being filtered through, all things, ponds full of water lilies, which have been used as the final-stage filtration system in the NO area for nearly a century.

rollerbladr123
09-09-2005, 01:59 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050909/ap_on_go_ot/katrina_environment_4;_ylt=AiL5i5XnCwb37CBIGrsUShg bLisB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUlEPA Chief Had Hard Choice in New Orleans

Quote 1 "We were all faced with a difficult choice," EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson said in an interview with The Associated Press. "The choice was, we have to get the water out of New Orleans for the health and safety of the people and we need to put it someplace." The other option was to pour it into the Mississippi River, where it eventually would move into the Gulf of Mexico, said Johnson. "Our collective judgment was to put it into Lake Pontchartrain."He said he could not speculate on the possible environmental fallout for the massive freshwater tidal estuary, but the EPA was prepared to "take whatever steps we need to take" to deal with future environmental problems.

Quote 2
Of the watery soup that has engulfed New Orleans, Johnson said: "This water is very unsafe. It's a health hazard."

The first set of samples tested show it has a level of sewage-related bacteria that is at least 10 times higher than acceptable, as well as a surprising amount of lead. Louisiana officials believe it is laced with an assortment of heavy metals, pesticides and toxic chemicals. Johnston said the EPA is testing for more than 100 chemicals from heavy metals, pesticides, industrial chemicals and PCBs and expects a more definitive word on the makeup of the hazardous brew in the coming days, possibly as early as this weekend.

more at link...

tybee204
09-09-2005, 02:01 AM
Lake Pontchartrain is going to be a big huge Love Canal.

rollerbladr123
09-09-2005, 02:04 AM
Lake Pontchartrain is going to be a big huge Love Canal.Yes most definitely- that concoction of chemicals is just unreal-the high ppm of lead is just so disturbing

cynder
09-09-2005, 02:12 AM
Yes most definitely- that concoction of chemicals is just unreal-the high ppm of lead is just so disturbing
What is scarier is that they haven't yet figured out WHERE the lead contamination is coming from. The researchers are very perplexed - this was NOT something they expected to find.

rollerbladr123
09-09-2005, 02:21 AM
What is scarier is that they haven't yet figured out WHERE the lead contamination is coming from. The researchers are very perplexed - this was NOT something they expected to find.
Yes cynder the above is true and perplexing- they did not expect such high lead from residential area samples- in the article one of the things they surmise is that since the samples were taken from the French quarter (lots of old buildings) and residential neighborhoods so perhaps some of the old paint (which would contain lead) made it into the water but still the high ppm is scary at the least. And if they find Lead and heavy metals in the sediment, god, that cleanup is going to take decades!!

LinasK
09-09-2005, 03:08 AM
Just to add, also heard anti-freeze is in the water too... Can this be part of the lead contimination???

dani
09-09-2005, 04:00 AM
Just to add, also heard anti-freeze is in the water too... Can this be part of the lead contimination???

Plus…battery acid is also in the water.

BirdieBoo
09-09-2005, 04:13 AM
I have heard the word
"polio" being thrown around as well.

dani
09-09-2005, 04:21 AM
West Nile is all over south Lousiana. Do you have a source for your info, dani? I'm wondering if that is 9 confirmed cases in HUMANS or birds? Because here in Lafayette if we find a dead bird we take it to the health unit and they have it tested. If it tests positive, it's reported as a "confirmed case." A bird found down the block from me was positive. Talk about spraying yourself down with OFF. I'll worry about the deet thing later! We do have humans who have it, too, but at a much lower rate.


Editing: the oil on the water is going to be the least of the long term problems. I hate to mention Halliburton, but Halliburton is experienced in removing oil from water. There's this stuff they throw on top and it absorbs oil only. They then pick up the stuff and the water is clean of oil. The chemicals and bacteria, those are going to be forever type contamination.

I just told my husband that we will have to buy frozen fish from other areas; this will be a first for us. Living by the gulf, we are so spoiled, we have only had fresh seafood.

Hi kgeaux

I heard it on TV (regarding 9 West Nile cases in New Orleans), but I just tried to Google it and the link below is the Google results. The story is in there somewhere, as you will be able to see the quote in the New Orleans Metro News, but I guess I'd have to ready every single story to find the one that contains the info. I read the 1st two and didn't find it, but it's almost 1:30 am and I'm too sleepy to keep reading. Sorry I can't be of more help. The report on TV did say it was "human", however.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=nine+cases+of+west+nile+in+new+orleans+before+Ka trina&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

dani

rollerbladr123
09-09-2005, 04:37 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050909/ap_on_re_us/katrina_mississippi_health_hk2_1;_ylt=ApvMVrAFaZnc ZgL5Od67F0QbLisB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRP UCUl

Miss. Residents Say Health Warning Lacking

Quote 1 BILOXI, Miss. - The neighborhood called Point Cadet at the east end of Biloxi has no clean running water and a foul stench — the residents are certain it's human decay — pervades the air, burning the throat when the wind blows right. In addition to the many hurricane-flattened houses no one could live in, there are some still standing, though heavily damaged. And people are staying in them, in some of the most unsanitary conditions imaginable. "This is a public health nightmare," said Dr. Mary Wells, a pediatrician from Mobile, Ala., who used her day off to drive Biloxi's debris-strewn streets to see what people need. She found squalor and desperation. She saw people who can't get medicine, who are drinking contaminated water, who have untreated cuts and bruises from a night battling Hurricane Katrina, who don't have badly needed insulin.

Quote 2 ......Evan said she saw people swimming in the reeking, polluted East Pearl River, which serves as the state's southwestern border with Louisiana. Sgt. Chuck Strain, who patrols the river for Louisiana's Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, wrinkles his nose at the thought, pointing to a blob of fur in the water. It is, he says, a roughly 10-pound nutria rat. "There's millions of them dead out there," he said. "They're floating around with their little legs sticking up in the air and their little yellow teeth showing." Sgt. Grady Brecheen said two of his agents have been hospitalized with dysentery. Both were in the flood waters in New Orleans. "I think it's going to get bad," he said. "I really do."

kgeaux
09-09-2005, 08:41 AM
Hi kgeaux

I heard it on TV (regarding 9 West Nile cases in New Orleans), but I just tried to Google it and the link below is the Google results. The story is in there somewhere, as you will be able to see the quote in the New Orleans Metro News, but I guess I'd have to ready every single story to find the one that contains the info. I read the 1st two and didn't find it, but it's almost 1:30 am and I'm too sleepy to keep reading. Sorry I can't be of more help. The report on TV did say it was "human", however.

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=nine+cases+of+west+nile+in+new+orleans+before+Ka trina&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

dani

Thanks, dani. I'll try to track it down. Nine cases in humans, that's scary.

2luvmy
09-09-2005, 10:11 AM
I was wondering what a nutria rat was....

Quote 2 ......Evan said she saw people swimming in the reeking, polluted East Pearl River, which serves as the state's southwestern border with Louisiana. Sgt. Chuck Strain, who patrols the river for Louisiana's Department of Wildlife and Fisheries, wrinkles his nose at the thought, pointing to a blob of fur in the water. It is, he says, a roughly 10-pound nutria rat. "There's millions of them dead out there," he said. "They're floating around with their little legs sticking up in the air and their little yellow teeth showing." Sgt. Grady Brecheen said two of his agents have been hospitalized with dysentery. Both were in the flood waters in New Orleans. "I think it's going to get bad," he said. "I really do."

http://www.flex.net/~lonestar/nutriapr.gif

CyberLaw
09-09-2005, 10:54 AM
In the battle to save Louisiana marshes from coastal erosion, the new weapon is a price tag on the tail of this large, burrowing, oversexed rodent from Argentina called nutria, a Spanish word for its scientific, Latin name, Myocastor coypus.

Millions of furry nutria with large orange-yellow teeth are eating marsh grass and plants at such an alarming rate Congress approved a $12.5 million to be spent over the next five years to pay hunters and trappers $4 a tail, as proof the swamp rats are dead. Rice and sugar cane farmers, whose crops are also destroyed by nutria, simply call them "nutria rats."

So now there are lots and lots of dead, decaying nutira rats floating in the water........

West Nile is going to be a problem that is not going to isolated to the flooded states, skitters can fly and migrate to areas that they can feed on........birds and livestock will be bitten by the skitters and this will be a huge problem.

Standing water bread skitters and heat........so this will add to the already devestating problems and may affect other states.

kgeaux
09-09-2005, 11:18 AM
I was wondering what a nutria rat was....



http://www.flex.net/~lonestar/nutriapr.gif

I think they're kinda cute, actually. See them all the time! I tend to think of them as giant gerbils instead of rats!

concernedperson
09-09-2005, 11:31 AM
I think they're kinda cute, actually. See them all the time! I tend to think of them as giant gerbils instead of rats!

ROTFLMAO!!!

kgeaux
09-09-2005, 11:35 AM
ROTFLMAO!!!


HeeHee! I am glad I got you to laugh!! I am laughing right now too. My car has been up on blocks since last Friday--my bright 18 year old son hit a curb and sliced two of my tires open--there wasn't a single tire in the size I need in all of Lafayette--Allied tires just called and MY TIRES ARE IN!!! WHOO HOO! I have wheels, I can roam! I can go check out some nutria!

concernedperson
09-09-2005, 11:37 AM
HeeHee! I am glad I got you to laugh!! I am laughing right now too. My car has been up on blocks since last Friday--my bright 18 year old son hit a curb and sliced two of my tires open--there wasn't a single tire in the size I need in all of Lafayette--Allied tires just called and MY TIRES ARE IN!!! WHOO HOO! I have wheels, I can roam! I can go check out some nutria!

And don't forget the armadillos!!!!!!

Glad you have wheels again. Aren't those kids something though!!!

oceanblueeyes
09-09-2005, 11:47 AM
I have no idea. Perhaps it could be treated with some type of disinfectants as it's pumped out? Just because I don't have the answer doesn't mean I can't ask questions. I'd hate to see this tragedy spread to other areas or kill off marine life because of the poisoned water.

But what many dont realize is just how much of the disinfectants(chemiclas) will reek havoc too. To do so is to dump millions of gallons of chemicals right back into that sludge. There will be bacteria there that will be immuned to such treatments. There simply are no good ways....they will not treat and from what I have read they have no intentions of even doing so. It will run off into the Mississippi go through sparse wetland areas and into the Gulf...putrid as ever.

Health wise and environmentally this will be a long agonizing aftermath...it is going to reek havoc and not just in NO but the Gulf of Mexico which certain parts of it are having Red Tide problems already due to the pollution and where it ends, no one knows.

I am amazed that the EPA signed off on this toxic dumping. What in the h*ll are they thinking? Every scientist I have seen are screaming "NO dont do this...it will have horrific effects".

That city has everything, we have to remember it is much more than sewage, corpses, urine and feces. It has oil,fuel, gas, batteries who are breeched and oozing acid, lead from old companies. Chemical companies with all sorts of hazardous materials. Medical equipment using radiation. Remember the tech doesn't stand behind a thick wall for nothing....now these machines have sat their for almost two weeks submerged. And we cannot turn a blind eye to the amount of pesticides that will have to be sprayed in NO alone, all toxic, all airborne and right into their lungs.

I fear what this may truly become to our entire country. How many times has poor decisions made effected us years down the road. Look how long it too for them to admit that Asbestos kills or that certain kind of paint is toxic?

I fear Kristina's aftermath is far from over.

IMO

Ocean

cynder
09-09-2005, 11:58 AM
But what many dont realize is just how much of the disinfectants(chemiclas) will reek havoc too. To do so is to dump millions of gallons of chemicals right back into that sludge. There will be bacteria there that will be immuned to such treatments. There simply are no good ways....they will not treat and from what I have read they have no intentions of even doing so. It will run off into the Mississippi go through sparse wetland areas and into the Gulf...putrid as ever.

Health wise and environmentally this will be a long agonizing aftermath...it is going to reek havoc and not just in NO but the Gulf of Mexico which certain parts of it are having Red Tide problems already due to the pollution and where it ends, no one knows.

I am amazed that the EPA signed off on this toxic dumping. What in the h*ll are they thinking? Every scientist I have seen are screaming "NO dont do this...it will have horrific effects".

That city has everything, we have to remember it is much more than sewage, corpses, urine and feces. It has oil,fuel, gas, batteries who are breeched and oozing acid, lead from old companies. Chemical companies with all sorts of hazardous materials. Medical equipment using radiation. Remember the tech doesn't stand behind a thick wall for nothing....now these machines have sat their for almost two weeks submerged. And we cannot turn a blind eye to the amount of pesticides that will have to be sprayed in NO alone, all toxic, all airborne and right into their lungs.

I fear what this may truly become to our entire country. How many times has poor decisions made effected us years down the road. Look how long it too for them to admit that Asbestos kills or that certain kind of paint is toxic?

I fear Kristina's aftermath is far from over.

IMO

Ocean
:clap: :clap:
I totally agree !!!! I am so sick over this - and millions of migrating birds (some critically endangered) are headed that way as we speak - and they have NO PLAN to protect them !!!
Our very own Chernobyl and Love Canal wrapped in a deceptively charming, spanish moss draped Cajun exterior. Gives a whole new meaning to Mardi Gras, doesn't it?

tybee204
09-17-2005, 02:45 PM
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9375301/

First New Orleans sediment samples troubling
Bacteria, lead and fuel oils found that pose health risk


WASHINGTON - A new health risk emerged Friday from the sediment of New Orleans — test results showing that diesel and fuel oils, which can take years to break down, make up as much as a 10th of the weight of some sediment samples.

The test results came from 18 sediment samples drawn Sept. 10 from across the New Orleans area, where there have been five flood-related oil spills since Hurricane Katrina struck Aug. 29.

Earlier tests turned up dangerous amounts of sewage-related bacteria and lead in floodwaters and more than 100 chemical pollutants.

more at link.

deanws
09-17-2005, 02:53 PM
When the governor met with Bush and the mayor and said she wanted 24 hours to think about it I thought she should be forced to go without food and water while she thought. For this I think she should wade around in that water several times a day while she waits for the test results.LMAO! Yep..I bet she could make up her mind a lot quicker this way. I don't know WHAT these people in charge are thinking.:banghead:

Pepper
09-17-2005, 02:56 PM
Apparently Gov. Blanco isn't afraid of the water:

BLANCO: I wouldn't think it would be toxic soup, right now. I think it's just water from the lake, water from the canals. It's, you know, it's water.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0509/10/cp.01.html

deanws
09-17-2005, 02:58 PM
Norwalk virus is the leading cause of viral gastroenteritis in the U.S.

Norwalk virus causes acute gastroenteritis with nausea, vomiting, fever, and myalgia that lasts 24-48 hours. The virus is transmitted through fecal-oral contact. The Norwalk virus is well established as the chief cause of viral gastroenteritis epidemics. The disease occurs throughout the year without a seasonal predominance.

Norwalk virus was first associated with gastroenteritis in 1972. It was identified by electron microscopy of stool samples that had been saved from a 1968 gastroenteritis epidemic that occurred in Norwalk, Ohio. In a 2-day period, acute gastroenteritis developed in 50% of 232 students or teachers in an elementary school. The virus initially was labeled as a small, round, structured virus, and it was named after the city in which the outbreak occurred.

Information on the molecular characteristics of the virus is limited. It cannot be grown in any cell culture, and no readily available nonhuman animal model becomes ill from the Norwalk virus.

The virus is transmitted through contaminated food, water, or infected contacts. After ingestion, the virus infects the mucosa of the proximal small intestine, damages microvilli, and causes malabsorption of D-xylose, lactose, and fat. Although no histopathological lesions can be found in the stomach mucosa, the virus causes abnormal gastric motility and delayed gastric emptying. It does not invade the colon and, therefore, does not cause fecal leukocytes or hematochezia.

http://www.emedicine.com/med/topic1648.htm Cruise ships have had several problems with this virus. It can make people real sick real fast.:doh:

Tom'sGirl
09-17-2005, 03:31 PM
Cruise ships have had several problems with this virus. It can make people real sick real fast.:doh:And yet Mayor Nagin says come on back, unreal! Well, ya know it is a Party Town.........yeah, it's going to be one Big Sick Party Town I bet in some areas.

BillyGoatGruff
09-17-2005, 05:03 PM
Cruise ships have had several problems with this virus. It can make people real sick real fast.:doh:
New Orleans has a long standing hisotry of problems with diseases that thrive in moisture and heat, especially those that grow within air conditioners. Back in the laste 1980s/early 1990s I knew 3 people who came down with Bell's Palsy in NO, two within a year of each other, and they didn't have anything in common except that I knew them--didn't work, shop, socialize anywhere near one another. The Bell's Palsy was the reuslt of contaminated/uncleaned air conditioner filters.
Back in the 1900s scarlet fever nearly wiped out half the city. Entire households died within days of each other. I remember seeing a gravestone in historic Metairie cemetery, where there was twleve names, twelve different birth dates and twelve identical death dates. The grave stone bore the inscription: "We Are All Here."

BillyGoatGruff
09-17-2005, 05:06 PM
What is scarier is that they haven't yet figured out WHERE the lead contamination is coming from. The researchers are very perplexed - this was NOT something they expected to find.
It's from submerged cars, not to mention ruptured fuel lines, and probably other sources such as paint & hardware stores.

BillyGoatGruff
09-17-2005, 05:11 PM
I was wondering what a nutria rat was....



http://www.flex.net/~lonestar/nutriapr.gif

They're musk rats, of a sort, and were once highly prized for their skins. You haven;t lived until your cat has attcked and knocked one out (thinking it had killed it) and dragged one back in the house as a present for the family, only to have it suddenly come back to life and run through your living room & kitchen, squealing like a stuck pig, until you grab a broom and use it like a hockey stick to knock said creature out the front door.

concernedperson
09-17-2005, 05:11 PM
New Orleans has a long standing hisotry of problems with diseases that thrive in moisture and heat, especially those that grow within air conditioners. Back in the laste 1980s/early 1990s I knew 3 people who came down with Bell's Palsy in NO, two within a year of each other, and they didn't have anything in common except that I knew them--didn't work, shop, socialize anywhere near one another. The Bell's Palsy was the reuslt of contaminated/uncleaned air conditioner filters.
Back in the 1900s scarlet fever nearly wiped out half the city. Entire households died within days of each other. I remember seeing a gravestone in historic Metairie cemetery, where there was twleve names, twelve different birth dates and twelve identical death dates. The grave stone bore the inscription: "We Are All Here."

WOW, I didn't know that was the cause of Bell's Palsy. One of my brothers and one of my sister's both came down with Bell's Palsy over the years while living in Louisiana. Their illnesses struck many years apart though.

ETA: I just went and changed my ac filter. It was filthy. Thanks for the info, I'll will pass it around.

kgeaux
09-17-2005, 06:12 PM
And yet Mayor Nagin says come on back, unreal! Well, ya know it is a Party Town.........yeah, it's going to be one Big Sick Party Town I bet in some areas.

They'll all be doing the Pepto Bismal Dance!

Tom'sGirl
09-17-2005, 06:30 PM
They'll all be doing the Pepto Bismal Dance!Yep, get the Imodium AD (sp) ready.........that's what my mom takes for the "Trots" :laugh:

deanws
09-17-2005, 06:47 PM
New Orleans has a long standing hisotry of problems with diseases that thrive in moisture and heat, especially those that grow within air conditioners. Back in the laste 1980s/early 1990s I knew 3 people who came down with Bell's Palsy in NO, two within a year of each other, and they didn't have anything in common except that I knew them--didn't work, shop, socialize anywhere near one another. The Bell's Palsy was the reuslt of contaminated/uncleaned air conditioner filters.
Back in the 1900s scarlet fever nearly wiped out half the city. Entire households died within days of each other. I remember seeing a gravestone in historic Metairie cemetery, where there was twleve names, twelve different birth dates and twelve identical death dates. The grave stone bore the inscription: "We Are All Here."That is so very sad..<wiping tear out of eye> :(

deanws
09-17-2005, 06:49 PM
They're musk rats, of a sort, and were once highly prized for their skins. You haven;t lived until your cat has attcked and knocked one out (thinking it had killed it) and dragged one back in the house as a present for the family, only to have it suddenly come back to life and run through your living room & kitchen, squealing like a stuck pig, until you grab a broom and use it like a hockey stick to knock said creature out the front door.:hand: NO THANK YOU! I never want to have that much fun....:chicken:

BillyGoatGruff
09-17-2005, 08:07 PM
WOW, I didn't know that was the cause of Bell's Palsy. One of my brothers and one of my sister's both came down with Bell's Palsy over the years while living in Louisiana. Their illnesses struck many years apart though.

ETA: I just went and changed my ac filter. It was filthy. Thanks for the info, I'll will pass it around.
There can be more than one cause for Bell's Plasy, but the bacteria growing in airconditioners is the most common.

kgeaux
09-17-2005, 08:21 PM
My sister said she heard that the latest studies on this toxic water show that you'd have to drink over 5 gallons a day for years and years and years before it would hurt you! Now that we've been reassured as to the safety of the toxic soup, who wants to head on down to Sin City and guzzle down a gallon or two????

BillyGoatGruff
09-18-2005, 04:11 PM
My sister said she heard that the latest studies on this toxic water show that you'd have to drink over 5 gallons a day for years and years and years before it would hurt you! Now that we've been reassured as to the safety of the toxic soup, who wants to head on down to Sin City and guzzle down a gallon or two????
Yeah, right. Who the hell put out THAT study? Nagin? The Levee Board?
This is the same water that's been making people break out in ugly rashes from mere physical contact. Wanna bet what it does to your insides?
The powers that be in LA need to be replaced for the duration. These are the people that made sure the situation that exists came into being through thei incomeptence and negligence, and they still seem to think that NO can come back the exact same way it used to be, without learning a lick from what just happned. Typical.

KrazyKollector
09-19-2005, 03:38 AM
They'll all be doing the Pepto Bismal Dance!Nagin can be the lead as far as I am concerned. I can't believe he wants people to return when the conditions are as they are.

Marstan
09-19-2005, 09:04 AM
I couldn't believe the news either when I heard the mayor telling people from a couple of parishes to come back home. How the heck do you live without running water, electricity, gas, trash pick up etc. I understand I may be spoiled having all these things in my home but to go back to that kind of mess! Jeez, I wish the mayor would get a brain!!

kgeaux
09-19-2005, 05:41 PM
Nagin can be the lead as far as I am concerned. I can't believe he wants people to return when the conditions are as they are.

That's what my sister said: She'll drink her five gallons two weeks after Nagin drinks his, if he should survive unscathed that long.