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poco
09-10-2005, 05:42 AM
Good article - (IMO)

No one anticipated Katrina's aftermath would include a false and ignorant tidal wave of calumny against President Bush. Conservatives beware, because the goal is to politically disable the president, and the conservative agenda with him.

A few basic facts will help to detox the political environment:
(1) FEMA is not an agency of first responders. It is not the agency responsible for bringing people bottles of water and trays of fresh food, or transporting them out of harm's way. It also has zero law enforcement authority, or personnel.
These first-responder jobs are the responsibility of local and state government -- city police and firemen, city transportation and emergency services personnel, state police, and ultimately the state National Guard.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/commentary/20050908-090641-5247r.htm

Comments?

mjak
09-10-2005, 08:30 AM
Mother Nature is the first to blame. Many people do not like that because there is nothing they can do about Mother Nature. These people crave some type of control in a situation of complete Kaoss. So blaming various government offiicials is the next best thing. We are all responsible. Those of us who elect our officials. Those of us who choose to be our officials, Those who did not evacuate, Those of us who built a great city on a flood plane. We are all guilty but no one is to blame. but we must all be held accountable.

mjak

Amraann
09-10-2005, 08:53 AM
Great post Mjak~~~

poco
09-10-2005, 10:32 AM
Mother Nature is the first to blame. Many people do not like that because there is nothing they can do about Mother Nature. These people crave some type of control in a situation of complete Kaoss. So blaming various government offiicials is the next best thing. We are all responsible. Those of us who elect our officials. Those of us who choose to be our officials, Those who did not evacuate, Those of us who built a great city on a flood plane. We are all guilty but no one is to blame. but we must all be held accountable.

mjak

So true!

kgeaux
09-10-2005, 11:10 AM
Mother Nature is the first to blame. Many people do not like that because there is nothing they can do about Mother Nature. These people crave some type of control in a situation of complete Kaoss. So blaming various government offiicials is the next best thing. We are all responsible. Those of us who elect our officials. Those of us who choose to be our officials, Those who did not evacuate, Those of us who built a great city on a flood plane. We are all guilty but no one is to blame. but we must all be held accountable.

mjak

AHH, but there are people out there saying that Big Oil is to blame. He caused the global warming that made Mother Nature produce this monster storm! And me and you, we drive around in gas powered cars and use spray deoderant and so, alas, it's our fault too. Third on the list, Bush, cuz he didn't rebuild the levees, it dribbles down to blanco and nagin, and dear god, don't act like any resident had any personal responsibility for the safety of themselves and their families! I actually watched a guy on tv say all this last night. Made me want to puke.

JBean
09-10-2005, 11:26 AM
AHH, but there are people out there saying that Big Oil is to blame. He caused the global warming that made Mother Nature produce this monster storm! And me and you, we drive around in gas powered cars and use spray deoderant and so, alas, it's our fault too. Third on the list, Bush, cuz he didn't rebuild the levees, it dribbles down to blanco and nagin, and dear god, don't act like any resident had any personal responsibility for the safety of themselves and their families! I actually watched a guy on tv say all this last night. Made me want to puke.OMG. I'm puking too.
Well without rewriting everything I've written. I'll make mine short and sweet. While I think there is plenty of blame to go around,I place the brunt of it squarely on the Governor and then the mayor.They failed their citizens miserably. They should have followed the plan in place in order to be self sufficient for 72 hours while waiting for federal aid.
I am not afraid to place blame, becasue I think that is the catalyst for change. I know i will take a long look at my own elected officials and what help they have to offer me in the event of disaster.I know I will take the time to become more personally self sufficient.
The effects of a hurricane this magnitude were well documented and that's what first response disaster planning is all about. Knowing the possibilities and being ready, following the plan.
Nothing would have been 100% efffective, but it could have been a lot less catastrophic.

mjak
09-10-2005, 12:10 PM
Kgeaux I am having trouble understanding what you have written. who is big oil? and
what is it that makes you want to puke?

mjak

less0305
09-10-2005, 12:27 PM
And now there's even people saying that the stories of toxic water are being spun - with the media's help - because somebody wants all the land for oil drilling. This will never end.

kgeaux
09-10-2005, 12:31 PM
Kgeaux I am having trouble understanding what you have written. who is big oil? and
what is it that makes you want to puke?

mjak

Big oil is Halliburton primarily. And Schulumberger, and Shell and BJ Oil and all the other big guys.

I want to puke because there are people who use the storm to promote a certain political agenda. They are stepping on the bodies of those who died to blame the deaths on something they already hate--big oil in this case.

If these opportunists loved big oil companies but hated American car manufacturers, then the blame would be on American car manufacturers for contributing to global warming thus causing big huge monster storms.

mjak
09-10-2005, 03:05 PM
Big oil is Halliburton primarily. And Schulumberger, and Shell and BJ Oil and all the other big guys.

I want to puke because there are people who use the storm to promote a certain political agenda. They are stepping on the bodies of those who died to blame the deaths on something they already hate--big oil in this case.

If these opportunists loved big oil companies but hated American car manufacturers, then the blame would be on American car manufacturers for contributing to global warming thus causing big huge monster storms.
Okay, I understand now and I join you in wanting to puke!!!

mjak

BillyGoatGruff
09-10-2005, 03:08 PM
And now there's even people saying that the stories of toxic water are being spun - with the media's help - because somebody wants all the land for oil drilling. This will never end.
I guess the massive amounts of poop, leaked fuel oil and decaying human bodies bobbing around in the stew are just window dressing, I guess.

less0305
09-10-2005, 05:57 PM
I guess the massive amounts of poop, leaked fuel oil and decaying human bodies bobbing around in the stew are just window dressing, I guess.

I guess. Reminds me of the people who think the aliens are speaking to them through the fillings in their teeth.

JBean
09-10-2005, 06:04 PM
I guess. Reminds me of the people who think the aliens are speaking to them through the fillings in their teeth.okay I laughed out loud Less :blowkiss:

Jeana (DP)
09-10-2005, 06:44 PM
I guess. Reminds me of the people who think the aliens are speaking to them through the fillings in their teeth.


You mean they're not? :confused: :confused: :confused:

concernedperson
09-10-2005, 08:27 PM
I am watching a synopsis on Paula Zahn....CNN. It is so apparent that there were many failures.I want it all to be good all feely stories but it isn't. The people who blame the residents for not leaving when they couldn't need to look as much as a week later. When waste from resources that were not utilized. Helicopters sitting on pads, Red Cross not allowed in, people/firefighters sitting in hotel rooms in Atlanta with a 50 dollar a day per diem and not utilized. It is waste and the human toll is terrible.Too big for our britches or too dumb to follow a plan? Or too many appointees with a different agenda? It just sucks.

BillyGoatGruff
09-10-2005, 09:22 PM
I am watching a synopsis on Paula Zahn....CNN. It is so apparent that there were many failures.I want it all to be good all feely stories but it isn't. The people who blame the residents for not leaving when they couldn't need to look as much as a week later. When waste from resources that were not utilized. Helicopters sitting on pads, Red Cross not allowed in, people/firefighters sitting in hotel rooms in Atlanta with a 50 dollar a day per diem and not utilized. It is waste and the human toll is terrible.Too big for our britches or too dumb to follow a plan? Or too many appointees with a different agenda? It just sucks.
We're a soft country, I'm afraid. We're no longer used to true hardship. We can't picture true disasters happenign on our soil. And because of that blind spot, when true catastrophe strikes, a vast majority of us simply shut down. We have no leaders in our country, on any level, just elected officials. There's a difference.

concernedperson
09-10-2005, 09:28 PM
We're a soft country, I'm afraid. We're no longer used to true hardship. We can't picture true disasters happenign on our soil. And because of that blind spot, when true catastrophe strikes, a vast majority of us simply shut down. We have no leaders in our country, on any level, just elected officials. There's a difference.

Thank you for at least acknowledging my post.I am so worried that I might have to enter the political arena as no one seems to have any knowledge or game plan.It is a sad state of affairs that people who are so much brighter than me can't get it together.I am really worried.

less0305
09-10-2005, 11:34 PM
I honestly feel that this was too big for anybody. I really do. I mean, when in our history have we had this magnitude of a disaster. I can't imagine that if a different party were in control of the state or the congress or the presidency, could this have been worked out any differently. I think this is a humbling exeperience for the U.S. Yes, we are vulnerable. We takes hits and then have to rebuild and climb back out of the darkness.

This was huge! Just like any parent with a child....you can be right there within inches of your child and he/she can still be hurt - right before your very eyes. And no matter what you wish you could have done, you couldn't have saved them from the hurt.

Maybe I just had one too many beers tonight and none of that makes sense to you all....but it does to me. My own child lost her front teeth and I was holding her hand when it happened. No matter how close you are and how much you try to protect from hurt...it can still happen. And I think that's what happened here. The country was right there within inches, but couldn't stop the hurt.

lilgrayduck2625
09-11-2005, 12:07 AM
Great post Less0305. Nice to see that someone else sees that this was a really BIG thing to happen and we just did the best our country could do. Nobody and nothing in this world is perfect and it's time people start coming together instead of always blaming the next person.

tybee204
09-11-2005, 12:10 AM
I think its evident that people are coming together by the out reach of support and donations. I also think investigation and accountability will help to insure that more lives may be saved in the case of future disasters. We only learn from mistakes when we know exactly what mistakes were made.

BirdieBoo
09-11-2005, 02:13 AM
I think its evident that people are coming together by the out reach of support and donations. I also think investigation and accountability will help to insure that more lives may be saved in the case of future disasters. We only learn from mistakes when we know exactly what mistakes were made.
RIGHT! We can start on an individual level, by being prepared as individuals and families. If we have neighbors/friends/family members who are incapable of protectiing themselves, then we must do what we can to help them. We are all members of the human race, and should help each other when possible.

And definitely, making sure the people we choose as our leaders and/or elected officials are also prepared (and not preoccupied with their own interests) is a big step in the right direction.

less0305
09-11-2005, 10:18 AM
Great post Less0305. Nice to see that someone else sees that this was a really BIG thing to happen and we just did the best our country could do. Nobody and nothing in this world is perfect and it's time people start coming together instead of always blaming the next person.
Thank you lilgrayduck - and welcome to Websleuths!!!!! :blowkiss:

tybee204
09-11-2005, 10:34 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/national/nationalspecial/11response.html?hp&ex=1126497600&en=ce371f0e0587100b&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Breakdowns Marked Path From Hurricane to Anarchy

The governor of Louisiana was "blistering mad." It was the third night after Hurricane Katrina drowned New Orleans, and Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco needed buses to rescue thousands of people from the fetid Superdome and convention center. But only a fraction of the 500 vehicles promised by federal authorities had arrived. ...

FEMA appears to have underestimated the storm, despite an extraordinary warning from the National Hurricane Center that it could cause "human suffering incredible by modern standards." The agency dispatched only 7 of its 28 urban search and rescue teams to the area before the storm hit and sent no workers at all into New Orleans until after the hurricane passed on Monday, Aug. 29.....

Officials said yesterday that 10 people died at the Superdome, and 24 died at the convention center site, although the causes were not clear.

kgeaux
09-11-2005, 10:37 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/national/nationalspecial/11response.html?hp&ex=1126497600&en=ce371f0e0587100b&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Breakdowns Marked Path From Hurricane to Anarchy

The governor of Louisiana was "blistering mad." It was the third night after Hurricane Katrina drowned New Orleans, and Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco needed buses to rescue thousands of people from the fetid Superdome and convention center. But only a fraction of the 500 vehicles promised by federal authorities had arrived. ...

FEMA appears to have underestimated the storm, despite an extraordinary warning from the National Hurricane Center that it could cause "human suffering incredible by modern standards." The agency dispatched only 7 of its 28 urban search and rescue teams to the area before the storm hit and sent no workers at all into New Orleans until after the hurricane passed on Monday, Aug. 29.....

Officials said yesterday that 10 people died at the Superdome, and 24 died at the convention center site, although the causes were not clear.

Yeah, and at the same time this "blistering mad" woman was having her state homeland security guys turn back two caravan of dozens of busses from the Lafayette Parish school board. This woman is a nut case.

Pepper
09-11-2005, 10:45 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/11/national/nationalspecial/11response.html?hp&ex=1126497600&en=ce371f0e0587100b&ei=5094&partner=homepage

Breakdowns Marked Path From Hurricane to Anarchy

The governor of Louisiana was "blistering mad." It was the third night after Hurricane Katrina drowned New Orleans, and Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco needed buses to rescue thousands of people from the fetid Superdome and convention center. But only a fraction of the 500 vehicles promised by federal authorities had arrived. ...
FEMA appears to have underestimated the storm, despite an extraordinary warning from the National Hurricane Center that it could cause "human suffering incredible by modern standards." The agency dispatched only 7 of its 28 urban search and rescue teams to the area before the storm hit and sent no workers at all into New Orleans until after the hurricane passed on Monday, Aug. 29.....

Officials said yesterday that 10 people died at the Superdome, and 24 died at the convention center site, although the causes were not clear. If only Nagin had deployed those 600+ city and school buses in the first place, and not let the flood waters claim them......If only Nagin and Blanco had worked the hurricane disaster plan they helped to develop several months ago.......If only Blanco had shown some decisive leadership by asking Bush to federalize the National Guard troops (when her counterparts in Miss. and Alabama had already done so)........If only Nagin & Blanco had declared a mandatory evacuation when they were first warned by the National Weather Service.......If only Nagin, Blanco and other local politicians had lobbied Congress for the needed funding to strengthen the levees ages ago.......If only Blanco had allowed the Red Cross and other relief agencies into N.O. with the food and medical supplies they had ready........

I'm sure there will be a lot more "If onlys." I only wish I could remember everything that was on CNN Presents last night. There were screw-ups at every level. And many people died needlessly.

Graveyard of dead school busses:
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=New+Orleans,+LA&ll=29.998726,-90.037712&spn=0.002502,0.003471&t=e&hl=en

dakini
09-11-2005, 10:49 AM
This is not to dispute anyone's posts. There is still a great deal of chaos, rumor, gossip. I think it will be awhile before the Katrina mess is all sorted out and the true picture of what happened in NO is known.

Its safe to say there were multiple causes and conditions for this overwhelmingly painful tragedy that still continues.

May whatever allows us all to feel kinship with one another be restored quickly in our country. May suffering be eased, and may healing be facilitated. May we truly learn from this experience. May kindness, clarity and compassion be the order of the day.

less0305
09-11-2005, 11:20 AM
Yeah, and at the same time this "blistering mad" woman was having her state homeland security guys turn back two caravan of dozens of busses from the Lafayette Parish school board. This woman is a nut case.


She doesn't have the leadership skills to have provided for the people in LA.

"Officials pleaded with various parishes across the state for school buses. But by Tuesday, Aug. 30, as news reports of looting and violence appeared, local officials began resisting.
FEMA stepped in to assemble a fleet of buses, said Natalie Rule, an agency spokeswoman, only after a request from the state that she said did not come until Wednesday, Aug. 31. Greyhound Lines began sending buses into New Orleans within two hours of getting FEMA approval on Wednesday, said Anna Folmnsbee, a Greyhound spokeswoman. But the slow pace and reports of desperation and violence at the Superdome led to the governor's frustrated appeal in the state emergency center on Wednesday night.

She eventually signed an executive order that required parishes to turn over their buses, said Lt. Col. William J. Doran III, operations director for the state Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness."

Eventually?? Why not sign it immediately.

This was from Tybee's link - I don't know how to shorten the link so that it doesn't blow out the margins.

less0305
09-11-2005, 11:46 AM
Another Governor (democratic, by the way) who held up sending relief and aid:

"Some sheriffs refused to wait. In Wayne County, Mich., which includes Detroit, Sheriff Warren C. Evans got a call from Mr. Sexton on Sept. 1 The next day, he led a convoy of six tractor-trailers, three rental trucks and 33 deputies, despite public pleas from Gov. Jennifer M. Granholm to wait for formal requests."
This is from Tybee's link also - the NY times piece.


Evidently this governor also respected the fact that the Governor of any state is in charge and should send the formal requests for assistance.

Maral
09-11-2005, 07:44 PM
Good article from Newsweek

How Bush Blew It (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287434/site/newsweek/)
Bureaucratic timidity. Bad phone lines. And a failure of imagination. Why the government was so slow to respond to catastrophe.

tybee204
09-11-2005, 09:44 PM
Wow Maral I just read that. What a freaken nightmare

Shadow205
09-11-2005, 11:00 PM
You mean they're not? :confused: :confused: :confused:
The messages only get through if they forget to put the aluminum foil on their heads.

tybee204
09-12-2005, 12:49 AM
What happens when a CAt 1 Hurricane is headed to Florida
Thursday, August 25, 2005

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,166876,00.html

Bush Monitoring Katrina Landfall

MIAMI The Bush administration is ready to leap into action with help and resources as soon as Tropical Storm Katrina hits land, the White House said Thursday.
The storm gained strength Thursday and was expected to become a weak hurricane before making landfall overnight along Florida's southeastern coast


"The government is ready, we're watching and we're taking steps to make sure that people get to safe areas or take the proper precautions," said White House spokesman Trent Duffy, speaking from Crawford, Texas, where President Bush is vacationing until early September. "We're also moving to ensure that all relief and recovery resources are in place so that these efforts can take place real time following any storm event."

Federal officials were coordinating with local authorities, including Bush's brother, Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida, on storm preparations, Duffy said.

less0305
09-12-2005, 10:24 AM
Coordinating with the Governor....now there's a novel idea.